Azerbaijani Foreign Minister: We live under occupation 20% of our territory

Negotiations were held in Baku between the heads of the foreign ministries of Azerbaijan, Pakistan and Turkey. The talks were held on several topics, including the theme of the development of transport communication and joint production of weapons.

In particular, the issues of the purchase of training aircraft from Pakistan by Azerbaijan were discussed.

Azerbaijani Foreign Minister Elmar Mammadyarov said that after the talks, the three countries agreed to develop a joint program for the joint creation of weapons. What specific weapons in question are currently not reported.

The head of the Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry during the meeting noted that Baku considers 20% "of its territories as occupied by Armenia." According to Mammadyarov, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt авavushoglu and Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Mohammed Asif expressed support for Baku’s position on the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh problem.

Turkish Foreign Minister Cavusoglu repeated the words recently voiced by Turkish President Recep Erdogan. According to Chavushoglu, the “decisive position of Russia” can put an end to the Karabakh conflict. At the same time, the Turkish Foreign Minister added the following:

We support all the options that are in the interests of Azerbaijan.

With this approach, the easiest way to shift the responsibility for resolving the conflict to anyone, is possible to Russia ...

Comments

[maxim947]

The feeling of own occupation has become somehow contagious, and these are the same ..))))
Naturally Russia will be to blame for the Turks, but it did not allow them to completely slaughter all Armenians. And if the Turkish Prime Minister comes to power, he will give the heat, all existing agreements will go to hell.

[210ox]

A sense of inferiority raises self-worth to the highest level ...

Quote: maxim947

The feeling of own occupation has become somehow contagious, and these are the same ..))))
Naturally Russia will be to blame for the Turks, but it did not allow them to completely slaughter all Armenians. And if the Turkish Prime Minister comes to power, he will give the heat, all existing agreements will go to hell.

[Finches]

I have nothing against Azerbaijan, but I feel that they want to squeeze the originally Armenian territories ... However, de jure, these are their territories, but de facto, historically, a little the other way ... Could have agreed - 50 to 50, for example, or even 30 to 70, plus a corridor! It means that proud Azerbaijanis do not want to come to agreement with proud Armenians, therefore Russia should take responsibility - well done!

[Going]

There is a lump of problems there and I'm afraid it will not be resolved soon.

[210ox]

In antiquity, there was one outstanding person who, with one blow, chopped a wad of problems. This is not enough for ours. Although we would snarl “Well, shut up!” Many forgot that when they sneeze in St. Petersburg in Europe, and not only did they cough and go to bed bed.quote = Going] There is a lump of problems there and I'm afraid it will not be resolved soon. [/ quote]

[Going]

A star-striped uncle crawls in and does not allow this wound to heal until it growls.

[Jedi]

Again, political dances with tambourines continue around the long-suffering NKAR ...

[Going]

Someone intensifies them.

[Jedi]

As for Azerbaijan, this "someone" is known.

[Yujanin.]

Quote: Jedi

As for Azerbaijan, this “someone” is known

In fact, Russia is on the list of countries that are actively arming Azerbaijan, if that.

[Jedi]

Arms, I do not argue. Like Armenia.

[Going]

Quote: Jedi

As for Azerbaijan, this "someone" is known.

Yes, and we have already talked about this, it could not have done without them, through third hands, but they are constantly scratching this wound.

[Yujanin.]

Quote: Jedi

Like Armenia.

A moot point, since Armenians don’t think so.

[Jedi]

Quote: Yujanin.

Armenians do not think so

Here is how? Did the Armenians purchase Iskander at a Chinese flea market?

[Yujanin.]

No. Russia provided these systems to the combined groups of troops of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Armenia stationed in the Republic of Armenia. And according to the agreements reached, this army is led in peacetime by Armenia, and in wartime Russia. In other words, Armenia can safely ride these systems at a military parade in Yerevan, which actually happened

[Brut]

A kind of complacency.

[FLOOD]

.... models of these systems, only models))

[xetai9977]

“You could have agreed - 50 to 50, for example, or another 30 to 70, plus a corridor!”
You yourself do not give 2 rocks in the ocean to the Japanese, but do you “advise” to give 20% of our native territories? Originally, from legal and historical points of view (the Karabakh khanate), provided that ALL countries of the world recognize this territory as ours. Then, according to your logic, give Konigsberg to Germany, the Kuril Islands of Japan, Petrozavodsk of Finland, etc. What, do not like it? And why should we like it?

[Finches]

And why are they your original ??? We already argued with you here about this - you wishful thinking - but you need not to rest and prove to everyone who writes on the wall above, but to negotiate!

[The black]

In my opinion, there are no "rightists" in the conflict in Karabakh - both sides are to some extent guilty. No "piece of land" in the XNUMXst century is worth dead people and mutilated lives - you need to be able to negotiate and make concessions to each other and open borders, and not to build new barriers ..... in that conflict of the "peaceful" with this and that the other side died more than the military. I’m telling you this for sure ...

[Going]

I fully support you, but how can this be conveyed to them.

[antivirus]

to decide the Russian Federation - to 88 g, Azerbaijan already went into free swimming along with its own, not common oil.
They will give oil on favorable terms to us - we will help. we will turn the mountains and persuade Armenia (for a fee they agree)
in 2002, he rode on a train with an Azerbaijani: Karabakh was sold and there is no strength to redeem it.

[Black_Vatnik]

De jure and de facto Armenians (NKR) now occupy the territories of several regions of Azerbaijan, which have nothing to do with Karabakh at all. Teach materiel so that de jure and de facto do not diverge.
Obviously, it would be much easier to agree on the sides on Karabakh if ​​the Armenian occupying forces left these lands and returned them to Baku’s control.
At least tomorrow, Azerbaijan would regain all lands by force, if not for some factors.

[Finches]

Thank you teacher!

[Black_Vatnik]

Please.

[armenk]

Teach materiel

Declared August 30, 1991 restoration of state independence of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic (ADR), the current Republic of Azerbaijan by act of renunciation of the succession of the Azerbaijan SSR essentially remained without legitimate borders. The fact is that the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918-1920. did not have internationally recognized borders in view of disputes arising as a result of unjustified territorial claims of ADRs against almost all neighboring states. Having recognized the ADR de facto, the League of Nations was forced to postpone its recognition de jure after the conclusion of the relevant agreements with neighboring states (primarily with the Republic of Armenia). Neither Nagorno-Karabakh, nor Nakhichevan in 1918-1920. were not part of the ADR.
Returning to the realities of 1918-1920, in 1991 the ADR became the legal successor of a state that did not have recognized borders. This circumstance obliged Baku in 1991, at the proclamation of the restoration of ADR statehood, to at least indicate that the question of the borders of the ADR remains open. Baku has chosen a different path. In the Constitutional Act on State Independence, adopted on October 18, 1991, he left open the issue of the territory (hence, the borders) of the ADR. The constitutional act on state independence of the Republic of Azerbaijan in connection with the issue of the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan addresses not historical law or treaties with neighboring states, but historical arguments. “The territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan,” the Constitutional Act says, “is historically united, indivisible ...”. The wording indicates the absence of international legal grounds for the legitimacy of the borders of the current Azerbaijan Republic. From internationally recognized documents it clearly follows that there are no legal grounds for Nagorno-Karabakh and, especially, Nakhichevan to be considered an integral part of the Azerbaijan Republic.

Obviously, it would be much easier to agree on the sides on Karabakh if ​​the Armenian occupying forces left these lands and returned them to Baku’s control.

Do not you think that it would be easier for the parties to come to an agreement if the "occupational" forces were withdrawn from the Crimea? It seems to me after the referendum that in the Crimea, in the NPO, there is no turning back.

At least tomorrow, Azerbaijan would regain all lands by force, if not for some factors.

This is from a series of bad dancers. What I have no doubt at all is that Azerbaijan would have long slaughtered all Armenians if it had such an opportunity.

[Black_Vatnik]

Lots of text. I will answer it with one term: "Nagorno-Karabakh security belt".

The analogy with the Crimea is inappropriate from the word at all.

I don’t know from which series you have what. The current forces of Armenia and Azerbaijan are not comparable. Over the past 10 years, Azerbaijan has spent about 3-4 times more on defense than Armenia. Yes, perhaps they would have slaughtered Armenians, just as the Armenians would gladly slaughtered all Azerbaijanis if they had such an opportunity. They demonstrated it perfectly in Khojaly.
I think, even far from this topic, it is clear, like a white day, that Karabakh-2 does not explode just because the Kremlin does not allow it to explode.

[armenk]

Lots of text.

This is to increase the level of your "materiel"

The analogy with the Crimea

The analogy is nowhere more relevant. In both cases, the territory given to another republic under the Bolsheviks. In both cases, the referendum, which determined the will of the people.

Over the past 10 years, Azerbaijan has spent about 3-4 times more on defense than Armenia

So it was in the 90s. A one-time resource advantage was on the side of Azerbaijan, NKAO did not have a common border with Armenia. Armenia was after the earthquake and in the blockade. Armenia has something to answer. If the advantage guaranteed Azerbaijan’s 100% win, the war would have already begun.

as well as the Armenians would be happy to slaughter all Azerbaijanis

These are empty words, not backed up by anything. No more than your fantasies and assumptions.

This they perfectly demonstrated in Khojaly.

This topic has been repeatedly discussed at the forum. I repeat once again that the Armenians were not involved in the massacre of the civilian population.

[Black_Vatnik]

Try now thoughtfully re-reading my first comment. And then you are somewhere wrong. If you succeed, then perhaps you will understand the inappropriateness of drawing an analogy between the declared conflict and the Crimean spring.

At the expense of empty words ... well, of course, your thinkers are the ultimate truth.

Well, since this topic was previously discussed here, then this radically changes the matter, yeah)

In general, you’re such a normal debater, pulling out 2-3-5 words from the text and separately answer them.

[Brut]

Quote: Black_Jacket

Over the past 10 years, Azerbaijan has spent about 3-4 times more on defense than Armenia.

Saudi Arabia spent tens and hundreds of times more on defense than Yemen, then on its own.

Quote: Black_Jacket

Yes, perhaps they would have slaughtered the Armenians

Last year, “the brave Azerbaijani Rambos” were cut out by three old men, and where are they now these same “Rambos”?

[Black_Vatnik]

The parallel between the Saudis and Azerbaijanis is extremely strange. Remember the US war with Vietnam)

The second thesis is why? A rhetorical question.

[Brut]

Have you lost the thread of the story? The question is rhetorical.

[Black_Vatnik]

I just didn’t lose it, from which perplexity appeared.

[Brut]

Quote: Black_Jacket

I don’t know from which series you have what. The current forces of Armenia and Azerbaijan are not comparable. Over the past 10 years, Azerbaijan has spent about 3-4 times more on defense than Armenia.

Quote: Brut

Saudi Arabia spent tens and hundreds of times more on defense than Yemen, then on its own.

Quote: Black_Jacket

The parallel between the Saudis and Azerbaijanis is extremely strange. Remember the US war with Vietnam)

Then explain what made you see strangeness in this dialogue?

[garnik]

From the 2nd century BC according to 387g, the Artsakh was included as the 9th province of Great Armenia.
The eastern border of Artsakh passed along the Kura River, according to the testimony of Greco-Roman historians.
387 g was captured by the Persians and annexed to its vassal, Caucasian Albania. The Armenian population of Ar.tsakh was divided into several principalities. In 1045, nomadic Türks appeared and the plain part of Artsa.ha was lost by the Armenians. Only from 1747 to 1822 did the Turkic tribes enter the upland part of the Artsakh and form the Karabakh Khanate. At the same time, the Armenian population lived independently of the khan’s administration.
It was a liberation, not an occupation. I think the Lezgin, Avar, Talysh lands are still waiting for their release.
T.N. Azerbaijan without Turkey will not budge even if the Jews sell the most advanced weapons. In case of defeat in the war, the so-called Azerbaijan will cease to exist. Indigenous peoples are waiting for it. There was a precedent in 1993, the Talysh-Mugan Autonomous Republic. Yes and the Lezghins tried to rise (Sadval).

[FLOOD]

What are “original Armenian” territories ?! Armenians were generally relocated to the Caucasus 180 years ago. You probably also don’t know who and under what pretext did they resettle them. And this is a memorial to the 150th anniversary of the resettlement of Armenians ...

[Finches]

Poor you know the history of your land ...

[co-creator]

That's right, he says. Before joining the Republic of Ingushetia, there were 20% of Armenians in these lands, the remaining Turks, Kurds.

[Finches]

I'm still more inclined to the official version:“In the XNUMXth – XNUMXnd centuries BC, the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh was part of the Armenian kingdom of Yervidyds. At the beginning of the XNUMXnd century BC, the region became part of Greater Armenia as the province of Artsakh (in the Greco-Roman sources of Or Histen )"And according to the 1921 census of the Azerbaijan SSR, 94,4% of Armenians lived on these lands!

[co-creator]

The monument is worth the "resettlement of Armenians" which settled primarily on the land where today the Republic of Armenia.
Karabakh is bigger than its borders written by the Bolsheviks. So Armenians lived in the mountains, on the foothills there were Turkic pastures. In the historical Karabakh of Armenians was 20-30%.

[Finches]

I will not argue - this is not the point, but the general obstinacy that one, that others! In the end, you can ask the residents of Karabakh themselves - where do they prefer to live, and on the earth, as a territory, compromises can be found ... Otherwise, it will be an ever smoldering region!

[co-creator]

Quote: Finches

In the end, you can ask the residents of Karabakh themselves - where do they prefer to live, and on the earth, as a territory, you can find compromises ..

Here the situation is similar to the Crimea, only with local specifics. De jure Karabakh is Azerbaijan, de facto the Armenians live there, whose Azeri will assimilate or simply expel. Naturally, the Armenians do not want this.
There is essentially one way out, the creation of a confederation where Baku will only formally rule Karabakh. Baku will never agree to this.

[Brut]

Quotation: blooded man

De jure Karabakh is Azerbaijan

Show at least one document on which Ar.tsah is de jure Azerbaijan.

[co-creator]

Quote: Brut

Show at least one document on which Ar.tsah is de jure Azerbaijan.

For example, a UN document. What is one country that does not recognize the borders of Azerbaijan? Armenia recognized Karabakh?

[Brut]

Quotation: blooded man

Declared August 30, 1991 restoration of state independence of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic (ADR), the current Republic of Azerbaijan by act of renunciation of the succession of the Azerbaijan SSR essentially remained without legitimate borders. The fact is that the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918-1920. did not have internationally recognized borders in view of disputes arising as a result of unjustified territorial claims of ADRs against almost all neighboring states. Having recognized the ADR de facto, the League of Nations was forced to postpone its recognition de jure after the conclusion of the relevant agreements with neighboring states (primarily with the Republic of Armenia). Neither Nagorno-Karabakh, nor Nakhichevan in 1918-1920. were not part of the ADR.
Returning to the realities of 1918-1920, in 1991 the ADR became the legal successor of a state that did not have recognized borders. This circumstance obliged Baku in 1991, at the proclamation of the restoration of ADR statehood, to at least indicate that the question of the borders of the ADR remains open. Baku has chosen a different path. In the Constitutional Act on State Independence, adopted on October 18, 1991, he left open the issue of the territory (hence, the borders) of the ADR. The constitutional act on state independence of the Republic of Azerbaijan in connection with the issue of the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan addresses not historical law or treaties with neighboring states, but historical arguments. “The territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan,” the Constitutional Act says, “is historically united, indivisible ...”. The wording indicates the absence of international legal grounds for the legitimacy of the borders of the current Azerbaijan Republic. From internationally recognized documents it clearly follows that there are no legal grounds for Nagorno-Karabakh and, especially, Nakhichevan to be considered an integral part of the Azerbaijan Republic.

Here is the answer to your question.

Quotation: blooded man

Armenia recognized Karabakh?

He doesn’t only recognize, in order not to disrupt the negotiations, that in my opinion the biggest mistake is the leadership of my country.

[Yujanin.]

Armenia recognized Karabakh?

As soon as possible

[FLOOD]

The document is not even worth showing, you write your wintering through a point. And what, dumb directly to write?

[garnik]

Quotation: blooded man

The monument is worth the "resettlement of Armenians" which settled primarily on the land where today the Republic of Armenia.
Karabakh is bigger than its borders written by the Bolsheviks. So Armenians lived in the mountains, on the foothills there were Turkic pastures. In the historical Karabakh of Armenians was 20-30%.

And you hooked on this monument? There are monuments from the time of Tigranes the Great.
The borders of the historical Ar.tsakh in the north-east passed along the Kura River. If you judge by this territory, then you are right. And if by the upland part, it was always for the Armenians. And the fact that the number of Armenians in the entire Artsakh has decreased, thanks to the tolerant Turkic tribes and Kurds.

[Karen]

Quotation: blooded man

That's right, he says. Before joining the Republic of Ingushetia, there were 20% of Armenians in these lands, the remaining Turks, Kurds.

And if you look a little back at the story?
Then we can recall the forcible resettlement of Armenians by Shah Abbas in Persia in 1603, and the Kurds settling the territory of Lachin to cut us off with the Karabakh Armenians, and, as I told you earlier, the events of the actions of Peter in the 18th century ...

[co-creator]

Quote: Karen

Then we can recall the forcible resettlement of Shah Abbas by Armenians in Persia in 1603, and the Kurds settling the territory of Lachin to cut us off with the Karabakh Armenians,

I was not interested in this question, therefore I can’t argue. It is simply a historical fact that when these lands were conquered by the Republic of Ingushetia there were only 20% of Armenians. It was the king who was engaged in resettlement policies to separate the Turks from the Caspian Turks and have a population that supported RI.

Quote: Karen

Well, and as I told you earlier, events on the actions of Peter in the 18th century ...

You wrote nonsense about Peter. Peter did not care about all the natives, as well as the Russians, too, by the way. He didn’t resettle anyone by force, and it is only you yourself who are to blame for the betrayal of your sovereign khans.

[Karen]

These are sovereign khans, after all, not ours ... by force since 387, when the Persians and Romans divided us and off we go .... There was an interesting case about 20 years ago: the leadership of Persia showed paintings in the gallery, battles, and when he asked, with whom were the battles, they answered him - with you, with whom else in those antediluvian times to fight for their independence? !! :)

[co-creator]

I wrote in vain about betrayal, I was wrong.

[Karen]

By the way, Griboedov was a great opponent of the settlement of Karabakh lands by Armenians ... He wrote to the Emperor.

[co-creator]

Quote: Karen

By the way, Griboedov was a great opponent of the settlement of Karabakh lands by Armenians ... He wrote to the Emperor.

At the same time, he was killed because of his refusal to extradite an Armenian eunuch. Here is such a collision.

[Karen]

Not a fact ... they could have killed for the amount of indemnities, or something else ... And England could have been wise through her agents. Or maybe the Germans got mad at him?

[FLOOD]

What story ??? You do not have it and did not have it!

[Brut]

This is from your alternative story that only you on this planet know.

[garnik]

[quote = conservative] That's right, he says. Before joining the Republic of Ingushetia, there were 20% of Armenians in these lands, the remaining Turks, Kurds.

It depends on which territory to consider. Ar.tsakh itself (Nagorno-Karabakh) has always been predominantly populated by Armenians. And the lowland, after the extermination of the Armenians, was behind the Kurds and Turkic tribes.

[FLOOD]

And you, as I see it, know this story perfectly ...
http://vestikavkaza.ru/articles/O-pereselenii-arm
yan-po-Turkmenchayskomu-dogovoru-1828-g-iz-Persii
-v-Irivanskoe-i-Karbakhskoe-khanstva.html
http://poistine.org/pereselenie-armyan-na-azerbay
dzhanskie-territorii-griboedova-nikto-ne-uslyshal

[garnik]

Why are you clinging to this monument? Yes, it was to this village that the Armenians from the same name Iranian Maraghi were resettled. And does this mean that the Armenians are not autochthonous?

[Krabik]

Azerbaijan was recaptured from Iran by the Russian Empire and it has no right to either Karabakh or anything else.

Karabakh was presented to Azerbaijan in the same way that Crimea was given to Ukraine under Khrushchev.

But they are gnawing by the fact that they do not want to live peacefully and fairly and everything will be buried in foreign lands.
+ State policy creates the image of an external enemy to which all leadership errors are attributed.

[scrap123]

If Armenia switches over to the EU, they will definitely wring it out.

[garnik]

If Russia acts like 1921, then everything is possible.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

If Russia acts like 1921, then everything is possible

Is Russia obligated to protect Armenia? What purpose did you recall in 1921?
In general, it will be funny if you exchange Karabakh for the EU)

[Brut]

Quotation: blooded man

Is Russia obligated to protect Armenia?

In fact, the names of countries are capitalized, whether it be Armenia or Russia.

Russia is obliged to protect its strategic interests. Armenia is obliged to protect its strategic interests. And these interests of the two countries are very close, if not more.

Quotation: blooded man

What purpose did you recall in 1921?

And you say that the Bolsheviks acted in the interests of the USSR or Russia?

[co-creator]

Quote: Brut

In fact, the names of countries are capitalized,

It’s not on purpose, I don’t have the habit of belittling the name of other countries.

Quote: Brut

Russia is obliged to protect its strategic interests. Armenia is obliged to protect its strategic interests. And these interests of the two countries are very close, if not more.

That's right, each country has its own interests. Today, interests are close, tomorrow or yesterday not.
Russia does not owe Armenia anything, we conquered all the lands where Armenians live and lived.

Quote: Brut

And you say that the Bolsheviks acted in the interests of the USSR or Russia?

In the situation of 1920, yes, the Bolsheviks acted in the interests of Russia. For them, Russia was more important then than the outlying Armenian where there were no important resources. I hope you remember that in Russia there was a civil war and intervention.

[siberalt]

What is the occupation there? Armenians lived in Artsakh for a thousand years and did not go anywhere. If it were not for Azerbaijani nationalism, everyone would live peacefully now.

[Yujanin.]

According to Cavusoglu, the “decisive position of Russia” can put an end to the Karabakh conflict.

Do not go there. It seems that after the agreement of Armenia with the EU, Russia has already lost its influence over this country.

[Volodin]

Quote: Yujanin.

It seems that after the agreement of Armenia with the EU, Russia has already lost its influence over this country.

Did the Armenians say it to you or someone from the EU?

[Yujanin.]

Did the Armenians say it to you or someone from the EU?

I read Armenian news daily.

[Karen]

Quote: Yujanin.

Did the Armenians say it to you or someone from the EU?

I read Armenian news daily.

I envy such strong nerves - I can’t overpower it, and it makes me sick, and it’s possible to get fatally poisoned from reading the works of a borosopisse that we plow for shekels.

[co-creator]

Quote: Yujanin.

Did the Armenians say it to you or someone from the EU?

I read Armenian news daily.

I suppose Chavushoglu knows more than the Armenian media)

[Herculesic]

Everything is more complicated there than we think, the Armenians are ready to "be friends" with everyone where there is at least some benefit, so they will try to get along peacefully with us and the EU!

[Karen]

Quote: Herkulesich

Everything is more complicated there than we think, the Armenians are ready to "be friends" with everyone where there is at least some benefit, so they will try to get along peacefully with us and the EU!

The question here is rather survival.
The first case has been known since Alexander’s campaign - the Armenian wing withstood the onslaught of the Macedonians all day, only the next day Darius fled to his place.
Then the Roman had to cut off his head and present it while watching the performance in the theater to our kings with the Persians.
Then Byzantium and Persia, then Arabs and Persians, then ... etc. etc.

[hrych]

Quote: Yujanin.

Russia has already lost its influence over this country.

It’s the same as to cancel the moon but she will still be. The main problem of this state education, like Azerbaijan, is the lack of a border with both Turkey and Pakistan. The outlook is not very bright, so the Turkish sultan says that go and deal with Russia

[Yujanin.]

It’s the same as to cancel the moon, but it will still be

.
Recent history of the post-Soviet space says the opposite.

[co-creator]

Quote: Yujanin.

Recent history of the post-Soviet space says the opposite.

How can the EU protect Armenia and Karabakh in front of you? The influence of what gives the roof.

[Yujanin.]

The EU-Armenia security announcement includes the opening of a permanent NATO mission in Yerevan and the creation of a military training center in the same country. Georgia and Moldova are an example of this.

[co-creator]

Quote: Yujanin.

Georgia and Moldova are an example of this.

So how did NATO protect the Georgians?

[protoss]

the lack of a border with Pakistan is not a problem, but luck.
But the checkpoint on the Turkish-Azerbaijani border

[hrych]

Nakhchivan does not solve the problem. Communication with the rest of Azerbaijan is mainly through the Nakhchivan airport, and road communication via Iran is also used. And Baku’s control is conditional, it has its own Constitution and other attributes.

[protoss]

which problem?

[hrych]

Quote: protoss

which problem?

Insulation in the event of hostilities

[Karen]

The lack of borders with Turkey is painfully perceived by US Jewry, they even proposed the Goble plan 20 years ago - Karabakh to us, and the "damned wedge" - Zangezur - to them. And a century ago, 120 Russian officers from the tsarist army shed blood for Zangezur in the Nzhdeh army against the Bolshevik-Turkic kagal.

[Herculesic]

One should expect attempts to revive this conflict, bringing it to a state of real war between the Turkic troika and Armenia.

[the finish]

From the series: now we will beat someone’s face, someone’s red-headed impudent face.

[Karen]

Here the discontent of the Armenians goes further and further to the East, soon, probably, it will rest against the Great Wall of China ...
I’m talking about this ... In 1894, + _, the Shah of Afghanistan was so outraged by the actions of the Armenian separatists in the Ottoman Empire that he expelled his beloved personal jeweler and his relatives from his country, 18 people in all - the entire Armenian diaspora there :)

[prior]

The territorial dispute can be finally resolved only by joining Nagorno-Karabakh to Russia.
And who does not agree - turn off the gas.

[Awaz]

no Azerbaijan has ever existed in history. Borders gave him the USSR. If all of them are now against the USSR, they should be content with what is and not tryndet. And if historically, then Armenia has more than 80 percent of the territory under occupation .. and what should they do now? Ukraine Belarus, the Baltic states and even Finland and Poland are also part of Russia historically ... But I don’t even speak about Alaska ...

[xetai9977]

"never in history Azerbaijan existed"
See a doctor. Help ... maybe.

[Awaz]

Are there any facts? Of course, some states could exist on this territory, but it was not Azerbaijan. There is not even such a people, and even worse, there isn’t even written language.
With the same success, Mongolia can lay claim to China, part of Russia and all of Central Asia, most likely together with Azerbaijan too))))) so calm down and the Mongols will stir ...

[garnik]

The real province of Azerbaijan is located on the territory of Iran, the northern border runs along the Araks River, and all that is higher is the historical Arran and Shirvan.

[Normal ok]

This is a fee for Syria.

[mavrus]

Quote: xetai9977

“You could have agreed - 50 to 50, for example, or another 30 to 70, plus a corridor!”
You yourself do not give 2 rocks in the ocean to the Japanese, but do you “advise” to give 20% of our native territories? Originally, from legal and historical points of view (the Karabakh khanate), provided that ALL countries of the world recognize this territory as ours. Then, according to your logic, give Konigsberg to Germany, the Kuril Islands of Japan, Petrozavodsk of Finland, etc. What, do not like it? And why should we like it?

Parya, why are you upside down ???
From stupidity, or just a touch?
In Kaliningrad, Karelia and the Kuril Islands, Russian laws are in force and governed by officials subordinate to Moscow, and the local population (the vast majority) does not show any desire to leave the Russian Federation.
In Nagorno-Karabakh, on the contrary ... they spit on Azerbaijan with its laws and claims from a high bell tower, and the local population will fight back to the last ... from those who come with arms in their hands to evict them from their own land, and without weapons be laughed at best ...
Well, what did you find here in common? Everything is exactly the opposite.

[garnik]

Quotation: blooded man

Is Russia obligated to protect Armenia? What purpose did you recall in 1921?
In general, it will be funny if you exchange Karabakh for the EU)
Reply Quote Complaint

No, Russia should conduct an adequate policy towards Armenia.
In 1921, the Bolsheviks and Turks simultaneously fought against Armenia. And thanks to you, the hated Nzhdeh, who defended the territory that prevents the unification of the so-called Azerbaijan and Nakhichevan.
Armenians can exchange Russia for the EU only if the events of the 1920s are repeated.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

No, Russia should conduct an adequate policy towards Armenia.

So we are leading. Only an adequate policy is one that is beneficial to us, and not to you Armenians.

Quote: garnik

In 1921, the Bolsheviks and Turks simultaneously fought against Armenia. And thanks to you, the hated Nzhdeh, who defended the territory that prevents the unification of the so-called Azerbaijan and Nakhichevan.

What nonsense? That is, when the Turks attacked Kars, the Russian Bolsheviks attacked Yerevan? What is the number and year of this action.
Remember the Armenian, you are not our relatives or friends. For the Bolsheviks, any capitalist and nationalist government was the enemy, and the dashniks all the more. As soon as Soviet power triumphed, the Bolsheviks drew borders on the approximate settlement of peoples. If the Bolsheviks wanted, then calmly connected the isthmus separating Nakhichevan from Azerbaijan to the latter, so that you defended only your mriies no more.
In general, it amuses me to read when the Armenians demand that they conquer their lands) Have you tried it yourself or is your gut thin?

Quote: garnik

Armenians can exchange Russia for the EU only if the events of the 1920s are repeated.

I dream when this happens. The faster the Russian Federation leaves Armenia, the better. It is only necessary to open the borders at the same time and not to let you nosy in the Russian Federation when the Azerbaijanis jam you.

[Karen]

Quotation: blooded man

What nonsense? That is, when the Turks attacked Kars, the Russian Bolsheviks attacked Yerevan? What is the number and year of this action.

Yes, at least the decisions of the Congress of East Peoples in the 20th in Baku, organized by the Bolsheviks, in terms of raising the national movement in Turkey and for this to organize their war against Armenia.
You can read about the actions of the Bolsheviks in Karabakh, Zangezur and Nakhichevan. There is literature on the Internet. unless, of course, there is a desire.

Once again I will repeat for you ... Here the factor of China goes back, to our joy ... The Japanese, by the way, harnessed the harness of Turkey.
____
Are you tired of the Armenians in the Russian Federation? Relocate them to Karabakh - only the nature of Karabakh can feed 3 million people.

[Yujanin.]

Brut,

A kind of complacency.

..for the mass that still remained on the territory of Armenia

[Brut]

It is for that mass that only at the keyboard imagines itself a great warrior.

[co-creator]

Brut,
Brut,
<<< Quote: Consanguine
Declared August 30, 1991 restoration of state independence of the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic (ADR), the current Republic of Azerbaijan by act of renunciation of the succession of the Azerbaijan SSR essentially remained without legitimate borders. The fact is that the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic of 1918-1920. did not have internationally recognized borders in view of disputes arising as a result of unjustified territorial claims of ADRs against almost all neighboring states. Having recognized the ADR de facto, the League of Nations was forced to postpone its recognition de jure after the conclusion of the relevant agreements with neighboring states (primarily with the Republic of Armenia). Neither Nagorno-Karabakh, nor Nakhichevan in 1918-1920. were not part of the ADR.
Returning to the realities of 1918-1920, in 1991 the ADR became the legal successor of a state that did not have recognized borders. This circumstance obliged Baku in 1991, at the proclamation of the restoration of ADR statehood, to at least indicate that the question of the borders of the ADR remains open. Baku has chosen a different path. In the Constitutional Act on State Independence, adopted on October 18, 1991, he left open the issue of the territory (hence, the borders) of the ADR. The constitutional act on state independence of the Republic of Azerbaijan in connection with the issue of the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan addresses not historical law or treaties with neighboring states, but historical arguments. “The territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan,” the Constitutional Act says, “is historically united, indivisible ...”. The wording indicates the absence of international legal grounds for the legitimacy of the borders of the current Azerbaijan Republic. From internationally recognized documents it clearly follows that there are no legal grounds for Nagorno-Karabakh and, especially, Nakhichevan to be considered an integral part of the Azerbaijan Republic.
Here is the answer to your question. >>>.

One can reasonably argue, but in fact the borders of Azerbaijan are recognized by all states of the world.

[Brut]

And the sea borders are not the borders of the country? Kindly enlighten.

[co-creator]

Quote: Brut

And the sea borders are not the borders of the country? Kindly enlighten.

Of course they are. Another issue is that in closed waters these boundaries may differ from international regulations.

[Brut]

Quotation: blooded man

One can reasonably argue, but in fact the borders of Azerbaijan are recognized by all states of the world.

Quote: Brut

And the sea borders are not the borders of the country?

Quotation: blooded man

Of course they are. Another issue is that in closed waters these boundaries may differ from international regulations.

You can reasonably argue, but in fact the borders of Azerbaijan are NOT recognized by all states of the world, in particular, Russia does not recognize the sea borders of Azerbaijan. Is not it?

[co-creator]

Quote: Brut

in particular, Russia does not recognize the maritime borders of Azerbaijan. R

A separate agreement has been signed on the Caspian Sea and maritime borders between all countries of the Caspian basin. There seem to be no borders, but there are economic zones.
Land borders of Azerbaijan. recognized by all countries of the world.

[garnik]

The official recognition of the borders of the so-called There is no Azerbaijan from the EU.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

The official recognition of the borders of the so-called There is no Azerbaijan from the EU.

T.N. Azerbaijan?) Do you doubt the existence of the Republic of Azerbaijan?
Name a European country that does not recognize the Karabakh territory of Azerbaijan.

[FLOOD]

This is your pseudo-state. Armenia is the so-called, because it was created on the territory of Azerbaijan!

[garnik]

Quotation: blooded man

Quote: garnik

No, Russia should conduct an adequate policy towards Armenia.

So we are leading. Only an adequate policy is one that is beneficial to us, and not to you Armenians.

Quote: garnik

In 1921, the Bolsheviks and Turks simultaneously fought against Armenia. And thanks to you, the hated Nzhdeh, who defended the territory that prevents the unification of the so-called Azerbaijan and Nakhichevan.

What nonsense? That is, when the Turks attacked Kars, the Russian Bolsheviks attacked Yerevan? What is the number and year of this action.
Remember the Armenian, you are not our relatives or friends. For the Bolsheviks, any capitalist and nationalist government was the enemy, and the dashniks all the more. As soon as Soviet power triumphed, the Bolsheviks drew borders on the approximate settlement of peoples. If the Bolsheviks wanted, then calmly connected the isthmus separating Nakhichevan from Azerbaijan to the latter, so that you defended only your mriies no more.
In general, it amuses me to read when the Armenians demand that they conquer their lands) Have you tried it yourself or is your gut thin?

Quote: garnik

Armenians can exchange Russia for the EU only if the events of the 1920s are repeated.

I dream when this happens. The faster the Russian Federation leaves Armenia, the better. It is only necessary to open the borders at the same time and not to let you nosy in the Russian Federation when the Azerbaijanis jam you.

Great Russia is capable of pursuing an adequate policy towards its strategic allies. But sometimes it puts it in the wilds, in the 1917 and 90s, from which Russia itself inherits. And the Armenians have interests, although they are almost the same as in Russia.
1920 On November 21, two brigades of the 11th Red Army and several allied Turkish battalions joined the battle with the rebellious peasants and were defeated. Armenia was also torn by its whites and reds, if some fought for the land, others for a utopian future. Initially, the Dashnaks laid down their arms so as not to raise a fratricidal war, but after a separate conspiracy between the Bolsheviks and the Turks on the annexation of Karabakh, Nakhichevan and Zangezur to the newly created republic of Azerbaijan, then, led by Nzhdeh, the Armenians rebelled and managed to "fight back" Zangezur.
Do not take it so close to your heart, and watch your intonation of the letter. I would write a lot more, but I will regret you. Stesyutsiun.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

Great Russia is capable of pursuing an adequate policy towards its strategic allies. But sometimes it puts it in the wilds, in the 1917 and 90s, from which Russia itself inherits. And the Armenians have interests, although they are almost the same as in Russia.

Who told you that we have the same interests? Russia has never asked and will never ask the Armenians how to conduct its policy.

Quote: garnik

but after a separate conspiracy between the Bolsheviks and the Turks on the annexation of Karabakh, Nakhichevan and Zangezur to the newly created republic of Azerbaijan, then under the leadership of Nzhdeh, the Armenians rebelled and managed to "fight back" Zangezur.

Do you have a personal story? You did not repel any hanzegur and could not repulse. Borders were drawn in Moscow, and as deemed necessary, IT WAS NOT DEPENDING ON YOU. What does it mean? And the fact that the Reds, and not the fictional Armenian peasants, won.

Quote: garnik

Do not take it so close to your heart, and watch your intonation of the letter. I would write a lot more, but I will regret you.

I have something to take to heart) It's just funny when you dump your failures on others, just like the Ukrainians.

Quote: garnik

Stesyutsiun.

But this is purely in Armenian. It’s scary to write in Russian because of the ban, so acting out of silence.

[garnik]

Stesyutsiun - Goodbye.

[FLOOD]

..... leave within Azerbaijan, NOT TO TRANSFER !!!

[Karen]

TUFAN,
will a party document pass for the state?

[FLOOD]

And the state was not a party?

[garnik]

Quotation: blooded man

Quote: garnik

The official recognition of the borders of the so-called There is no Azerbaijan from the EU.

T.N. Azerbaijan?) Do you doubt the existence of the Republic of Azerbaijan?
Name a European country that does not recognize the Karabakh territory of Azerbaijan.

There is one real Azerbaijan and it is in Iran. And in the case of a passage between Turkey and the so-called Azerbaijan they will become one state. No wonder the Türks are the so-called. Azerbaijan is demanding that they be called Turks and are slowly changing Shiism to Sunnism.
About borders, I just repeated the words from the Azeri site Haqqin / az. The issue of recognition by the EU countries of the so-called Karabakh affiliation Azerbaijan does not exist. Since Ar.tsakh (Karabakh) has never been included in the so-called Azerbaijan.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

There is one real Azerbaijan and it is in Iran.

The state of Azerbaijan, with its capital in Baku, is located on the shores of the Caspian Sea and there is no other state of Azerbaijan. No need to confuse the geographical name and the name of the state.

Quote: garnik

The issue of recognition by EU countries of the so-called Karabakh affiliation Azerbaijan does not exist. Since Ar.tsakh (Karabakh) has never been included in the so-called Azerbaijan.

It is strange that no one in the world disputes the belonging of Karabakh to Azerbaijan. Even Armenia does not dispute, and you have never been a part of Azerbaijan.

[garnik]

Well, you will agree that until 1918 such a state did not exist, and the territories were called Arran and Shirvan.
General Anton Denikin wrote: “Everything in the Azerbaijan Republic was artificial,“ fake, ”starting with a name taken interchangeably from one of the provinces of Persia. The artificial territory that embraced Lezgi Zagatala, the Armenian-Tatar Baku and Elisavetpol (Ganja) provinces and Russian Mugan and united by Turkish politics as an outpost of Pan-Turkism in the Caucasus. Artificial statehood.
Azerbaijan SSR and so-called Azerbaijan has different concepts. Armenia does not recognize the independence of Artsakh so that there is "food" for conversation. In any case, the status quo in the region is in the hands of the Armenians. If now there are politicians who agree to give 2-3 areas in exchange for the recognition of Ar.Tsakh, then in the event of war no one will make concessions (we are talking about territories controlled by the Ar.Tskh Armed Forces at this time.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

Well, you will agree that until 1918 such a state did not exist, and the territories were called Arran and Shirvan.

Sure . Similarly, until 1918 there was no Armenian state.

Quote: garnik

. The artificial territory that embraced Lezgi Zagatala, the Armenian-Tatar Baku and Elisavetpol (Ganja) provinces and Russian Mugan and united by Turkish politics as an outpost of Pan-Turkism in the Caucasus. Artificial statehood

In exactly the same time, an artificial state of Ukraine and Belarus arose, etc. Only this has nothing to do with the current state of Azerbaijan. It is and the whole world recognizes it, and the rest is just dialectics.

Quote: garnik

Azerbaijan SSR and so-called Azerbaijan different concepts

Of course different. The Azerbaijan SSR was part of the USSR, and Azerbaijan is an independent country.

Quote: garnik

.Armenia does not recognize the independence of Artsakh so that there is "food" for conversation. In any case, the status quo in the region is in the hands of the Armenians.

The status quo is in the hands of the Russian Federation, no one needs war.
Only in fact, Armenia, without recognizing the Karabakh, recognizes it as part of Azerbaijan., Since all countries in the world of Karabakh are considered Azeri.

[Karen]

Quotation: blooded man

Only in fact, Armenia, without recognizing the Karabakh, recognizes it as part of Azerbaijan., Since all countries in the world of Karabakh are considered Azeri.

I, already, from 27.10.99/1998/XNUMX. (as before XNUMX) I wonder how this Armenian government does not recognize itself as pro-Zionist ...
There used to be hope for hajduks, they said: we’ll finish things in Karabakh, we will take up our power ... But, as you know, the true patriots of their people die in battles at first ...

[co-creator]

Quote: Karen

how this government of Armenia does not recognize itself as pro-Zionist ...

And I don’t know whether it is pro-Zionist or not, you know better, but I think that this is the right decision. The recognition of Karabakh actually makes Armenia a party to the conflict and any volunteers from Armenia will allow Azerbaijan. declare war on Armenia or officially blame the occupation of Karabakh. And so you are as if on the side, like Karabakh, it’s fighting itself, and Armenia, for humanitarian reasons, provides assistance to residents. Even Russia did not recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia until Georgia forced it to do so.

[Karen]

It was necessary to recognize it immediately after the war, but since "our" president received orders through a communication channel - the institute of Jewish day - they did not.
Ottomans told us a century ago, laughing, saying that pieces of paper like contracts mean nothing ...

[garnik]

Yes, at the expense of knowing the history of the Armenian state, you have problems.

So, Ar.tsah was not part of independent Azerbaijan for a day. And the Bolsheviks and Turks dragged Ar.tsakh into the composition of the Azerbaijan SSR.
I think that the leadership of Armenia does not recognize Artsakh independent, in agreement with the OSCE Minsk Group. And in Armenia everything has already been decided, starting from the same leadership to a person who simply thinks.
The only thing that Russia and the United States converge on is the status quo in the region. With the recognition of the independence of the Artsakh, everything is ahead, yet the Christian factor is doing its job.

[co-creator]

Quote: garnik

Yes, at the expense of knowing the history of the Armenian state, you have problems.

Can you show me the borders of the Armenian state, for example, in the middle of the 16th century or in 1900?

Quote: garnik

So, Ar.tsah was not part of independent Azerbaijan for a day. And the Bolsheviks and Turks dragged Ar.tsakh into the composition of the Azerbaijan SSR.

What is the difference between Karabakh (I write the name in Russian) and the composition of Azeris before or not, it is important that the modern borders of the Azrb. (Where Karabakh is part of it) are recognized by all countries of the world. Your trouble is that you live in the past and do not want to look at things de facto. In order to rewrite the borders, Baku needs to be defeated in the war and that the Azerbaijanis signed the act of surrender and recognized the Karabakhs as independent or ceded to Armenia. There is no other way.

Quote: garnik

The only thing that Russia and the United States converge on is the status quo in the region. With the recognition of the independence of the Artsakh, everything is ahead, yet the Christian factor is doing its job.

That's right, the main thing is that there would be no war.

[Brut]

Quotation: blooded man

Can you show me the borders of the Armenian state, for example, in the middle of the 16th century or in 1900?

An independent Armenian state existed before the birth of Christ and until the 11th century after his birth, and the Republic of Azerbaijan until the beginning of the 20th century did not exist in nature from the word at all. Do not compare, please, incomparable.
I agree with you on the account:

Quotation: blooded man

Your trouble is that you live in the past

but this is slowly changing, although very slowly.
And the fact that it was necessary to recognize the independence of the Republic of Artsakh (according to its constitution, it includes not only the NKAR), at least in April 2016, everyone agrees. And most importantly, the Artsakh Armed Forces had to bring down an Azerbaijani military transporter who flew to Israel twice during the 4 days of the war, and Armenia recognized independence and put an end to this farce called re-invaders.

[co-creator]

Well, it is clear that there has never been an Azerbaijani state since the Türks are an alien people, unlike the Armenians.
You just need to bring down something. The Russian Federation will not fight for Karabakh, it is 100%, and if you are the first to start it, it will not even be able to force the Azeris to stop the offensive.

[Brut]

Quotation: blooded man

The Russian Federation will not fight for Karabakh, it is 100%, and if you are the first to start it, it will not even be able to force the Azeris to stop the offensive.

You greatly exaggerate the combat effectiveness of the Azerbaijani army, although this is not surprising, many Armenians had the same opinion until April 2016.