Military Review

Bondarev said the "failed" electronics Mi-28

147
Oboronka finalized a number of flaws in the Mi-28 “Night Hunter” combat helicopter, but not all: electronics is “disastrous”, and the pilot's glasses earned the nickname “death to pilots,” said Viktor Bondarev, chairman of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security.


Bondarev said the "failed" electronics Mi-28


He expressed such criticism during the meeting on legislative support for the defense and military-industrial complex, responding to a number of comments by defense figures that the Defense Ministry is not sufficiently financing experimental development.

Mi-28 brought to mind thanks to Syria. So they (the pilots) say that it has become better, but not everything has become better - the electronics has failed: the pilot doesn’t see anything, the pilot doesn’t hear anything. These glasses, which are worn by pilots, are called "death to pilots". The sky is cloudless, everything is fine, and if there is a smoke, three days with red eyes go
- stated the former commander-in-chief of the Russian Aerospace Forces, RIA News
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com/
147 comments
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  1. Sofa General
    Sofa General 30 November 2017 13: 42 New
    17
    First of all, it means to “warm up” those who adopted “pilot's glasses” ...
    In the second - for electronics ...
    Return everything for revision with tight deadlines.
    1. The black
      The black 30 November 2017 13: 48 New
      27
      Mi-28 brought to mind thanks to Syria. So they (the pilots) say that it has become better, but not everything has become better - the electronics has failed: the pilot doesn’t see anything, the pilot doesn’t hear anything. These glasses, which are worn by pilots, are called "death to pilots". The sky is cloudless, everything is fine, and if there is a smoke, three days with red eyes go
      - stated the former commander of the Russian Aerospace Forces,
      And the former commander of the videoconferencing does not want to say how this electronic was in helicopters?
      1. Going
        Going 30 November 2017 13: 50 New
        21
        So now he can criticize and be smart.
        1. creak
          creak 30 November 2017 13: 59 New
          +3
          Quote: Going
          now he can criticize and be smart.

          Nekhay slanders, the fifth column .... am
      2. Bongo
        Bongo 30 November 2017 14: 43 New
        +8
        Quote: Black
        And the former commander of the videoconferencing does not want to say how this electronic was in helicopters?

        Bondarev when he was commander in chief of the VKS, he promised a lot of things and said “smart”. By and large, his "ceiling" is the commander of an aviation regiment.
        1. okko077
          okko077 30 November 2017 16: 56 New
          +9
          And Gerasimov - the chief of the General Staff, what is the ceiling? How are he and his general staff going to fight in a modern war, how do they develop tactical methods, formulate requirements for military equipment, determine priorities in development? He writes articles, he is the "locomotive" of the movement, a smart strategy developer, an advanced scientist? ... Or "eat" and "quietly" .... In Syria, they didn’t show anything militarily, everything is the old-fashioned way, everything is at level 45 years, again the heroes-spotters and suicide bombers at the same time, again they plug holes and their stupidity with people, again smart ones will flee the army as after Georgian coercion to peace ...
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 1 December 2017 05: 29 New
            +5
            Quote: okko077
            And Gerasimov - chief of the General Staff, what is the ceiling?

            In my opinion, the problem is that now in our country there are more demand not shining with great intelligence and special knowledge, but easily controlled gray mediocrity. Since the top leadership, despite the cultured personality cult, there are not enough stars from the sky, respectively, subordinates and performers are selected based on the criterion of personal devotion, and not professional and business qualities.
            1. sogdy
              sogdy 2 December 2017 19: 32 New
              0
              Quote: Bongo
              In my opinion, the problem is that now in our country there are more demand not shining with great intelligence and special knowledge, but easily controlled gray mediocrity.

              And what personality did you shine in the army? And in what ranks?
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 3 December 2017 03: 34 New
                +2
                Quote: sogdy
                And what personality did you shine in the army? And in what ranks?

                In the ranks are not great, but "shine" 25 years. hi
                1. sogdy
                  sogdy 3 December 2017 13: 36 New
                  0
                  Quote: sogdy
                  And what personality did you shine in the army

                  Quote: Bongo
                  In the ranks are not great, but "shine" 25 years

                  That is, left the answer?
                  25 - including school?
                  And more about personality!
                  1. Bongo
                    Bongo 3 December 2017 15: 51 New
                    +1
                    Quote: sogdy
                    That is, left the answer?
                    25 - including school?

                    Actually, I’m a “jacket”, as you know, it happens.
                    As for "individuality", I do not recall that I would write about it somewhere in my comments. It was about the mind and knowledge.
                    1. sogdy
                      sogdy 4 December 2017 09: 56 New
                      0
                      That is, you still continue to believe that NachGS does not shine with intelligence and knowledge?
                      And not capable of setting tasks as part of an order?
                      Or do you think you could be better?
                      1. Bongo
                        Bongo 4 December 2017 11: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: sogdy
                        That is, you still continue to believe that NachGS does not shine with intelligence and knowledge?

                        I have already expressed my opinion on the ceiling of Bondarev. It is not for me about Gerasimov.
                        Moreover, I had occasion to communicate with very honored people who knew Bondarev when he still did not wear big stars. And these people spoke unanimously that he was pulling on the "commander in chief of the Air Force."
                        Quote: sogdy
                        And not capable of setting tasks as part of an order?

                        Do you remember the nonsense that Bondarev repeatedly carried in the past? wassat
                        Quote: sogdy
                        Or do you think you could be better?

                        I am a signalman, and aviation is not exactly my profile. But even I am ashamed of some words and decisions made.
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 14 New
            +3
            Well, you certainly would have shown yourself.

            If so smart, then go command, rise to the rank of at least major, and then talk about "death row spotters."
            1. okko077
              okko077 1 December 2017 11: 10 New
              0
              Why major? Your ceiling? You would stand in front of me, as if rooted to the spot, but you would forget about your mouth .... Are you used to that there are only teapots on the forum? You are not lucky with me .... And not you, greens, but you ....
            2. okko077
              okko077 1 December 2017 11: 33 New
              0
              Did he get a major as a captain, passing two terms at headquarters?
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 2 December 2017 19: 09 New
                +1
                Quote: okko077
                A major

                "I insulted him,
                I said, "Captain,
                You will never become a major "" (s) vashcheta, Ancharov, t / s "My house"
                Quote: okko077
                He writes articles, he is a “locomotive” of movement, a smart developer of strategies, an advanced scientist? ...

                Let me ask your admission? And then you ask questions like a spack.
          3. co-creator
            co-creator 1 December 2017 10: 23 New
            +2
            Quote: okko077
            . In Syria, they didn’t show anything militarily, everything was the old-fashioned way, everything was at the level of 45 years old, again the heroes-spotters and suicide bombers at the same time, again they plugged holes and their stupidity with people, again the smart ones flee the army as after Georgian coercion to peace ..

            And what do you think the American army is fighting? Who adjusts the goals there? There, the same special forces rummage through the desert and also performs the role of suicide bombers.
            What kind of 45 are you talking about? The war in Syria is the first operation that the Russian Federation is conducting at the modern technological level and is doing very well. We just do not have enough for example the same drones. Only stupid people can compare 8.8.8 with Syria.
            1. okko077
              okko077 1 December 2017 11: 22 New
              0
              Not according to yours, but according to yours. With whom and where is the American army fighting in Syria? She does not fight, but organizes a war .... These are two different things ... Expand your horizons and learn to think ... But you don’t even want to read your posts, not to answer these nonsense ...
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 1 December 2017 11: 35 New
                +2
                Quote: okko077
                With whom and where is the American army fighting in Syria?

                besides Syria, America is not fighting anywhere? Afghanistan, Iraq?
                Quote: okko077
                Expand your horizons and learn to think ..

                First of all, you need to think that you shouldn’t write nonsense about 45. There are many books of American commandos that described their combat everyday life, read and enlighten.
          4. Konstantin Yu
            Konstantin Yu 1 December 2017 11: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: okko077
            . In Syria, they didn’t show anything militarily, everything was the old-fashioned way, everything was at the level of 45 years old, again the heroes-spotters and suicide bombers at the same time, again they plugged holes and their stupidity with people, again the smart ones flee the army as after Georgian coercion to peace .. .

            And showed it how? how's the dash? How about the demonstrators? How about a magic wand? Sofa maximalism grew stronger ...
            In Syria, there was study and work for everyone, some at the forefront, others at the research institute ...
            War is a testing ground for when one is outdated and a new one is tested. He is not mistaken, the one who does nothing .... The main thing is to learn lessons
            1. okko077
              okko077 1 December 2017 11: 45 New
              +1
              Sofas, dashes, sticks? You hear yourself. By the way, the enemy in Syria is slightly stronger than yours demonstratorsWhere did you see the war, with whom? A comparison with the shooting gallery is very appropriate ... Well, unless, taking into account the machinations of pi_ndosov ...
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 2 December 2017 19: 28 New
                0
                Quote: okko077
                intrigues of pi_ndosov

                And this man forbids us to pick our nose?! (X)
          5. Philip Staros
            Philip Staros 1 December 2017 16: 44 New
            +1
            Losses in a couple of dozen people in a couple of years of a full-sized war - are these "suicide bombers"?
            Or do you know something, but be silent?
        2. NN52
          NN52 30 November 2017 22: 44 New
          11
          And not a lot of this ex became on the air?
          I wrote and will write that he and only he is to blame for the fact that he almost "killed" all MiG 31s ....
          If not for this "attack aircraft", 31 would have remained more and upgraded to bm earlier !!!!
          He has 31 supporters of all. He cleaned himself around!
          DB .......
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 16 New
            +1
            But is it anything that the MiG-31 now has value exclusively at the level of the game value of some top-end video card of 4-years ago? Yes, still Moget, because it was originally up to the mark, but in operation it is openly disproportionate to capabilities.
            1. NN52
              NN52 1 December 2017 14: 34 New
              +9
              What a crooked comparison you have ...
              A sight on 320 on what else our types sees, you will not prompt?
              A rocket was made for him ....
              And maybe I’ll say it loudly, but who else will bring down Avaxa? It was developed for this, and not just chasing the SR, this is so along the way ....
              And look at the cost of operating Avax .....
              And now BM, it’s not that B already several years ago ...
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 1 December 2017 15: 55 New
                0
                Well, Su-35 before 400 sees, then what?
                1. NN52
                  NN52 1 December 2017 16: 24 New
                  10
                  Well, you are special on wikis ....
                  31 sees a target of 320 km with an epr of 1 m
                  Can launch RVV database already at 280

                  35 sees a 300km target with epr 1,
                  Answer pliz, what range of start will he have at the same time?
          2. sogdy
            sogdy 1 December 2017 10: 43 New
            0
            Quote: NN52
            I wrote and will write that he and only he is to blame for the fact that he almost "killed" all MiG 31s ....

            Is this your authoritative opinion? or expert? Are you a Mig-31 pilot? technician?
            1. NN52
              NN52 1 December 2017 14: 24 New
              +9
              Both expert and authoritative. I flew it on him, on B.

              And for his comment, for some reason, he received a warning, they wrote for the mat ....
              Where did you find it?
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 1 December 2017 14: 30 New
                0
                Let's focus on authoritative.
                31st after all, Titov oversees? So the problems have begun or do not produce new ones?
                Quote: NN52
                Where did you find it?

                "Himself in shock" (c)
                1. NN52
                  NN52 1 December 2017 14: 55 New
                  10
                  Everything is going fine on the Falcon with modernization, do not worry.
                  But the money allocated for this only 60 boards ....
                  It was once released 500.
                  Now the troops are less than 100.
                  If you write in the subject, then Gradusov, a number of years ago, tried to break through modernization, and there was money, and the plant would have been loaded .... But the attack aircraft said that he did not see them in the sky ... And it turned out as always ... .
                  1. sogdy
                    sogdy 1 December 2017 15: 10 New
                    0
                    Quote: NN52
                    If you like to write in the subject

                    Not really. Who is dead, who is not discussing.
                    Quote: NN52
                    But the attack aircraft said

                    I would not undertake to condemn him, but yes. According to calculations, there should be more stratosphere workers ... Yes, and there is not enough data for developments. There is no one to work on (nothing that is so cynical? But it doesn’t happen otherwise).
      3. Scoun
        Scoun 30 November 2017 14: 57 New
        18
        Quote: Black
        And the former commander of the videoconferencing does not want to say how this electronic was in helicopters?

        And let's remember how PRARILI this helicopter, from all screens - “Night Hunter” blah blah blah and this is despite a series of disasters with it and let's remember how openly they pushed the Ka-50/52, it seems to me if it weren’t for the military tests of the Ka-50 in Chechnya, this helicopter would have been successfully “forgotten”.
        IMHA. First of all, this "lobbyist" must be found and pulled out of the "gills".
        I am sure Milevtsy will bring everything to mind, but rotten lobbyists need to be dried.
        1. user
          user 30 November 2017 16: 12 New
          +2
          and let’s recall how openly they pushed the Ka-50/52, it seems to me if it weren’t for the military trials of the Ka-50 in Chechnya, then this helicopter would have been successfully “forgotten”.


          The Ka-50 won the competition against the Mi-28 if anyone is not in the know, but its manufacturing company is closer than Arsenyev to Moscow. Then they lobbed, referring to the fact that it was completely processed at the same time referring to its excellent performance in Chechnya.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 23 New
          +2
          Then the Ka-50 was frankly nowhere to produce, but apparently there were always a lot of interested people in the army, so in the end the pendulum went in the opposite direction, and the Mi-28 did not cause any particular interest. And objectively, what can he offer. The co-driver, whom everyone was afraid of, but with the accumulation of operational experience, less and less scares.

          Electronics is not run by Milevtsev. And why points only apply to Mi-28. This is a typical general helicopter equipment, at least use on the Mi-2.
      4. iouris
        iouris 30 November 2017 15: 29 New
        +2
        If leaders changed more often, we would know more about the real state of things and “failures”.
        1. Vadmir
          Vadmir 30 November 2017 15: 56 New
          +3
          If leaders changed more often, we would know more about the real state of things and “failures”.
          I agree, we would know more, but would do less. While the next “new broom” will sweep everyone out and arrange new assistants, the time comes for another even more “new broom” and so on in a circle.
      5. Anyone
        Anyone 30 November 2017 18: 44 New
        26
        What is the electronics. Another somewhere else you need to take ... For example, take the same "Meteor-M", which had recently been dropped into the Atlantic. The power supply machine (this is a system that monitors the batteries, their charge, regulates voltage, currents, etc.) is a unit that was developed 40 years ago with the appropriate element base, and which weighs ... well, I don’t know exactly how much but the three of us can lift it. Those elements on which it is assembled are more expensive than gold bars of the same weight. And not because it’s super-duper, but because several factories in Russia have to launch production lines every couple of years to make a couple of hundred crap, which was outdated a quarter of a century ago. It has been proposed more than once to make a new unit, on a modern element base (American truth, but there are analogues). But those in the leadership who are tightly seated on orders for the Meteor from the military do not even want to hear anything about modernization - the main thing for them is to prolong the order. The military reacts similarly: no change! Like, it will take time, heaps of approvals, tests and other procedures in accordance with the rules of military acceptance ...
        My father is building these Meteors. After the failure of the bosses and the customer’s representatives, his best development engineer spat on all this, and after they designed a retractable rod for the Lomonosov satellite antenna, he went off into business somewhere. As advised dragging Medvedev. Dad is 73 years old. He cannot retire, since there is absolutely no one to leave the laboratory. There are only managers who are supervised (this is an ex-all-Union mailbox with a worldwide reputation) by the former director (fanfare!) Of the hardware plant. And you ask about electronics! It’s good that they didn’t switch to steam and coal))
        1. igorka357
          igorka357 1 December 2017 07: 49 New
          0
          He can’t retire? You didn’t put it right, he can’t go on a well-deserved rest, but he has been retired for a long time!
        2. sogdy
          sogdy 1 December 2017 10: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Anyone
          former director (fanfare!) of a metal factory

          Nicho that this fifth vashcheta also is engaged in hardware?
          The rest screams at the same level.
      6. Sailor
        Sailor 30 November 2017 21: 02 New
        0
        Like how "shared."
    2. Monos
      Monos 30 November 2017 13: 50 New
      +6
      Quote: Sofa General
      Return everything for revision with tight deadlines.

      There may be a fundamental impossibility of refinement. Industrialists are talking about the insufficient funding for OCD.
      1. svp67
        svp67 30 November 2017 13: 51 New
        +6
        Quote: Monos
        There may be a fundamental impossibility of refinement. Industrialists are talking about the insufficient funding for OCD.

        No, here it is required to decide. Or is it IMPOSSIBLE to bring them to mind or is there not enough money? So far, one thing
        1. Monos
          Monos 30 November 2017 14: 02 New
          10
          Quote: svp67
          No, here it is required to decide. Or is it IMPOSSIBLE to bring them to mind or is there not enough money? So far, one thing

          So OCD for that and held. Or to refine, or to develop, or to determine the fundamental impossibility. No money for OCD - no answers.
          1. svp67
            svp67 30 November 2017 14: 06 New
            +4
            Quote: Monos
            So OCD for that and held

            OCD, it is BEFORE being adopted. The question is, who accepted this?
            1. Monos
              Monos 30 November 2017 14: 17 New
              +5
              Quote: svp67
              OCD, it is BEFORE being adopted. The question is, who accepted this?

              Development work does not stop during the entire life of the equipment. You can always improve something. smile And to the question: "Who?" There may not be an answer. These points are most likely a palliative decision made in time pressure of the Syrian conflict.
        2. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 30 November 2017 22: 15 New
          +2
          But the days are enough for show-offs from the 2018 World Cup. Okay, the Crimean bridge will give economic returns. And what will the stadiums give? The birth of financial black holes in Russia.
          1. igorka357
            igorka357 1 December 2017 07: 53 New
            +2
            You want to say that Olympic facilities in Sochi are not bringing profit now? Yes, my friend, you are in oblivion, however, and your message is clear "to the people ... Putting ... the bulk of our president
            "..that who you are, no more! It’s clear that they steal, they steal a lot .. and notice not only in Russia, but also in the light of shit democracy, and they steal many times more!
    3. Burbon
      Burbon 30 November 2017 14: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: Sofa General
      Return everything for revision with tight deadlines.

      laughing let me run? laughing
      1. Sofa General
        Sofa General 30 November 2017 14: 19 New
        +4
        Bourbon. I don’t understand why you have so much fun?
        Are you used to doing nothing, and then with a clever air prove the impossibility of completing the task? Or do you have any other problems?
        1. I doubt it
          I doubt it 30 November 2017 14: 36 New
          19
          Quote: Sofa General
          .... and then with a clever air prove the inability to complete the task ....

          Now it’s impossible. Almost all enterprises of the industry have collapsed. Erased from the face of the earth. There are two huge factories only in our "fly fly". One is now a shopping center, and a lot of space for sublease. In the other, nothing at all. There are empty looted shops with broken windows. But not only transistors were made there ... Uninhabited production zones with a normalized dust level - no more than 5 particles per cubic meter!
          All. Component production is gone! So what to make electronics from? And most importantly, to whom. Who will do it? You can’t buy people for any money. Nowhere. They were raised. For years ...
          1. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 30 November 2017 15: 15 New
            +2
            People in Russia have become so much better
            Yesterday, there were a lot of components, but now all - amba!
            Will I give up, or what?
            Tell someone.
            1. igorka357
              igorka357 1 December 2017 07: 55 New
              +3
              Yes, it's up to you to decide who, but not to us .. we are sorry, they are not needed!
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 29 New
            +2
            Excuse me, have they just been ruined, or are they standing like that from the 90s?
            You have already lifted upright, everything that could be destroyed was ruined in the 90s, then whoever went to all the Soviet specialists. But you are still yelling that some old people remained at the factories (who should already be behind 60, or even 70 should be), and everything has collapsed. Well, yes, collapsed. Before Putin, and not everything can be rebuilt instantly.
            1. I doubt it
              I doubt it 1 December 2017 10: 40 New
              +1
              Quote: EvilLion
              .... Well, yes, collapsed. To Putin ...

              I do not like to upset people. Especially those who sincerely believe ....
              But, offhand:
              1. The last BRD and special depot for them - closed at the end of 2004. Is this not the time of Putin?
              2. A slipway for the production of An-124-100 Ruslan - dismantled in the same 2004. Is this not with him again?
              3. The last “nail” in the lid of the coffin of the Saratov Aircraft Plant (all the verticals, including the Yak-141, Yak-40..42, KR and much more) - 2010. Is this not at all under Putin?
              The people can add a whole bunch to this mournful list, including in recent years.
              Yes, all 18 years old, he persistently and steadily continues the glorious traditions of the nineties ....
              We survived them and were only on TV. But in life ...
              1. sogdy
                sogdy 1 December 2017 15: 25 New
                0
                Disassemble and close after at least 10 (!) Years of unprofitable existence. Before closing / disassembling, they sell to a private trader. And why is he so bad, this private trader, that he could not restore break-even production in the market conditions of a liberal economy?
                Notice, I didn’t rush under the tanks for the great future that now has you.
              2. EvilLion
                EvilLion 1 December 2017 16: 02 New
                +1
                Excuse me, but do you think with your head?
                If NDB 10 years no one did not produce new, then, of course, the latter will simply be withdrawn. And do not think that BRD is such a critical thing that it needs to be saved.

                An-124 are now available in larger quantities than necessary. The question is, why the hell do you need a slipway if they won’t collect anything on it for the next 20 years?

                Yak-141 I do not mind at all. Yak-40, but were there orders for it? Because if they are not there, and the plane is out of date, then why the hell is the plant for him? I do not ask what happened before, but in fact by the beginning of the 2000s it makes no sense to preserve what is already dead, or was close to it.

                Here on the SSJ and on the MS-21 there are orders, respectively, the first is produced, the second will definitely go into the series.
                1. I doubt it
                  I doubt it 1 December 2017 17: 16 New
                  +2
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  Excuse me, but do you think with your head?

                  Absolutely not. If I start, the mood immediately goes bad.
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  ... do not think that BRD is such a critical thing that it needs to be saved.

                  What the hell are they singing about designing a new one now?
                  And this is really a critical thing. Especially in the conditions of transformation of the missile defense system into a shock system, with the abandonment of the INF. What is it all going to.
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  An-124 are now available in larger quantities than necessary.

                  Yes? And more recently, only the military announced their willingness to take 80-100 vehicles. And about this it was necessary in civilian life. Even Rogozin came ... But after successful elections, everything was quiet as always ... Again, the "partners" are not tired of reporting in their reports the extreme limitations of our BTA. For example, you think with your head, unlike me. Well, figure it out at your leisure, how long will it take to transfer at least one TD to the Far East with all available Ruslans if there are problems on the Trans-Siberian Railway?

                  Quote: EvilLion
                  Yak-141 I do not mind.

                  I'm sorry. It’s a pity that F-35B was fermented with this “yeast”.
                  And when they ordered the Mistral, they all racked their brains, what should we do with them?
                  But if the Yak-141 took place ...?
                  Quote: EvilLion
                  Yak-40, but were there orders for it? ... and the plane is out of date ... why the hell is a plant needed for it?
                  Here on SSJ ... there are orders ...

                  At least in order to service and repair flying. This is the first. And secondly, as one of the pilots said, SSJ is a pure "European", he can’t sit down 60% of the bands east of the Urals. And the Yak-40..42 can. And it will sit down and stand idle all night at -40, and in the morning it will start the engines, and without an aerodrome service car, and fly away. Can PowerJet SaM146-1S18 do this?
                  And thirdly, SSJ is not our plane, it is a “okroshka” with international cooperation, “.. I blinded him from what was ...”
        2. Burbon
          Burbon 30 November 2017 14: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: Sofa General
          Bourbon. I don’t understand why you have so much fun?

          you post with such pathos that I thought - all those who produced this trash, after reading your post, immediately rushed to redo it until the punishment came .....
          1. Sofa General
            Sofa General 30 November 2017 14: 57 New
            +6
            In the late 90s, we developed a new technology in the "no money, but a feat needed yesterday" and "you have no right to make a mistake." Developed. Maybe people were different, or Soviet leaven was not rotten - not the point.
            The bottom line is that when you are PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, many other things are perceived in a completely different way.
            And gouging, which is then covered by “effective managers” with beautiful words about “volatility of minds”, “increasing capitalization while reducing human resource costs” - from my point of view is subject to criminal prosecution.
            Therefore, I do not see a single reason for laughter.
            1. Burbon
              Burbon 30 November 2017 15: 03 New
              0
              Quote: Sofa General
              Therefore, I do not see a single reason for laughter.

              you are stuck in the 90s ..... do you really think that I read your post in the prosecutor's office or the government?
              1. Sofa General
                Sofa General 30 November 2017 15: 08 New
                +6
                I am sure that they do not read.
                The most interesting thing is that having changed the scope of activity, my company now produces a high-quality product, with minimal cost and almost no defect. Apparently affected by "stuck".
                But several dozen competitors, under the leadership of the "MBA graduates," have already gone bankrupt, left the business. Something like this...
                1. sabakina
                  sabakina 30 November 2017 16: 28 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Sofa General
                  I am sure that they do not read.

                  Well, here you are not quite right. I read ... True, I'm not quite a prosecutor .... repeat
                  1. Svarog51
                    Svarog51 1 December 2017 06: 42 New
                    +6
                    Glory hi Gee laughing
                    I read ... True, I'm not quite a prosecutor ....

                    Do you want to assure me that I forgot how to read? I will not cite an excerpt from the document. tongue Write an arrest warrant and immediately become a prosecutor. good drinks or the procurator. repeat
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 30 November 2017 14: 27 New
      +1
      And who is there to warm up? "Efficient managers" in the production or generals who signed the acceptance of unusable equipment?
    5. Berkut24
      Berkut24 30 November 2017 14: 42 New
      +2
      Return everything for revision with tight deadlines.

      Any technique requires constant improvement. With your formulation of the question, it is necessary to close the entire army for about 15 years, explain the situation to the Americans and take a timeout in matters of protecting the country.
      Amers, by the way, have much more problems than ours.
      1. Mexovoy
        Mexovoy 30 November 2017 16: 33 New
        +1
        Only a waste of money will be. Drummers Kamotsam, transport workers Milevtsy. Mi28 close.
        1. Berkut24
          Berkut24 30 November 2017 18: 36 New
          +3
          And nothing that more than a hundred have slapped them already?
          They are able to sell with us. The guys, as in an advertisement for potential customers in Syria for a year and a half, do not let dushmans raise their heads, and then a pensioner comes out and says that the Russians pressed some terrorists with UG. The Americans, as it were, do not know what to do with the enemies, but it turns out you just need to fly with red eyes ...
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 32 New
            +1
            Resource fly off and on cancellation, in museums, perhaps something for sale. As usual.
        2. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 30 November 2017 23: 39 New
          +1
          Where's the crocodile? Or is he not Milevsky drummer?
  2. Strashila
    Strashila 30 November 2017 13: 43 New
    16
    What does he want ... the result of the policy of the previous decades "The West will help us" ... the development and production of electronics destroyed as a class ... reap the benefits.
    1. svp67
      svp67 30 November 2017 13: 52 New
      +6
      Quote: Strashila
      What does he want ... the result of the policy of the previous decades "The West will help us" ... the development and production of radio electronics was destroyed as a class ..

      You might think production survived ....
      1. Vadmir
        Vadmir 30 November 2017 14: 14 New
        +7
        To restore the production of hardware and the production of electronics are tasks of a completely different level of complexity, especially since in Soviet times we also lagged behind electronics.
        Sometimes frames of soldering electronic circuits for military equipment slip on TV, these are technologies of the seventies, huge transistors, antediluvian soldering irons and female hands.
        1. anjey
          anjey 30 November 2017 14: 26 New
          +1
          yes, we must admit that it is in our electronics that there are lags, and specialists from the Soviet school, there aren’t enough new brains, they went to America, Israel and China, we had such a policy in the country since the 90s, and now there is a leak, Soviet heritage and hold on ....
        2. sogdy
          sogdy 30 November 2017 14: 29 New
          +3
          Quote: Vadmir
          all the more so as in Soviet times we lagged behind in electronics.

          Well, these are already fairy tales.
          1. anjey
            anjey 30 November 2017 14: 32 New
            0
            oh well, fairy tales on a nearby site ...
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 33 New
            0
            If these were fairy tales, now the world would be sitting on our electronics, as it is sitting on our weapons.
    2. Vlad.by
      Vlad.by 30 November 2017 15: 18 New
      +3
      And, excuse me, is the electronics in the same condition on the Alligator? The crossbow there, all sorts of Presidents, OLS ...
      Or is it imported?
      Something I'm confused, explain already ...
      1. anjey
        anjey 30 November 2017 17: 19 New
        0
        partially and imported, our radio electronics has always been reliable but a bit "widescreen", it’s possible to cut the dough - got into the development of "your own" but not very strong specialists ..., you’ll like Lockheed's starfighter, but now an unsuccessful and very expensive F - 35- here they obviously have a huge cut of the bubble goes ...
        1. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 30 November 2017 23: 37 New
          +1
          ... "He broke all brains into pieces, all the convolutions braided" ... (V. Vysotsky)
          Now translate, plz. What did you want to say?
          The president is imported? Or a crossbow? Or do they work poorly?
          And where does widowmaker ??
          1. sogdy
            sogdy 1 December 2017 11: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Vlad.by
            Now translate, plz. What did you want to say?

            Yes, yes, I join.
  3. amirbek
    amirbek 30 November 2017 13: 47 New
    0
    the figure is not that "28" mattress
    1. amirbek
      amirbek 30 November 2017 13: 50 New
      +1
      Upgrade required to 31
  4. NEXUS
    NEXUS 30 November 2017 13: 51 New
    13
    Mi-28 brought to mind thanks to Syria. So they (the pilots) say that it has become better, but not everything has become better - the electronics has failed: the pilot doesn’t see anything, the pilot doesn’t hear anything. These glasses, which are worn by pilots, are called "death to pilots". The sky is cloudless, everything is fine, and if there is a smoke, three days with red eyes go

    That’s what is called “military testing” ... now, following the results of all this, someone will fly to the head, someone will lose their job altogether ... and of course there will be an order “to fix all the shortcomings and problems in a short time.” Well, about the "points" ... I did not even like them outwardly.
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 30 November 2017 13: 57 New
      +7
      I wonder what he’ll say about the alligator tomorrow. I miss something about the “Black Shark“. Yes and no good to ring such things. he failed all of our 28x exports. and they ask why I respect Chinese.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 30 November 2017 14: 02 New
        12
        Quote: newbie
        I miss something about the “Black Shark“.

        Shark - a wonderful helicopter, just ahead of its time. He is single and in this MO saw a problem. Although it would be great to rework the KA-50 project taking into account new technologies and get an attack helicopter that really has no analogues.
        1. newcomer
          newcomer 30 November 2017 14: 11 New
          +5
          they will not revive the shark. the same with LFI 1.42 Migovsky. it would seem, take it and do it, you don’t really see it. who hammered it into their heads?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 30 November 2017 16: 42 New
            +7
            Quote: newbie
            they will not revive the shark. the same with LFI 1.42 Migovsky. it would seem, take it and do it, you don’t really see it. who hammered it into their heads?

            I think that life itself will force us to return to the KA-50 project in a modern version. The adversary arms himself and catches up anti-Russian hysteria. And here either we are doing something with this, moreover efficiently, or we continue to cry about the fact that sperlivepolymers.
            1. newcomer
              newcomer 30 November 2017 17: 01 New
              +4
              You see, life told us a lot of things, but we somehow do not emphasize. it’s easier to raise money for a new project and draw it for years over billions. so you look and the five-year plan has passed. then when the time comes to report on work in metal, the cries of a watery pier begin, there is no money, funding is blocked. something like that.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 30 November 2017 17: 07 New
                +4
                Quote: newbie
                screams of a watery pier begin, there is no money, funding is blocked. something like that.

                According to recent GDP statements, as well as accelerating work on promising projects, I believe that life ALREADY dunks us in our dances with a tambourine in front of the West.
                1. newcomer
                  newcomer 30 November 2017 17: 17 New
                  +3
                  exactly. but even though I am critical, the hope is warming in my soul that hackneyed projects because of someone’s ambitions will still be cheaper because working with ready-made drawings, especially with metal-ready copies.
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 44 New
            0
            Reality hammered. It’s strange that it doesn’t reach you that there can simply be no 5 generation in the dimensions of the MiG-29 or a little more. Requirements for the internal placement of a very large fuel supply and combat load simply automatically remove tons of empty weight into the 18-20 class, or a sharp decrease in LTX, which happens with the F-35.

            This is despite the fact that no LFI was flying at all, and the 1.44 monster, no matter how larger than the PAK FA.
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 40 New
          +1
          The Kamovites were simply tired of arguing, especially since the two-seater for training, reconnaissance and commander tasks was still planned from the very beginning. In small groups, singleness, reducing the possibility of observation, does not give much savings to people. Whether it’s the case when the commander’s passenger is sitting quietly and steers right away with a squadron that acts only against already explored targets.

          In any case, this is simply unavailable for the Mi-28, because there is not a free passenger engaged in tasks not related to the direct control of the machine, but an operator of weapons. Double Mi-28 and Ka-52 are two big differences.
    2. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 30 November 2017 14: 13 New
      +1
      similarly ...
  5. Herculesic
    Herculesic 30 November 2017 13: 53 New
    +4
    But did the rear rotor gearbox drive the mind, or do we still need one war? After two Chechen ones, the Syrian one flies like a gearbox, which was filled with complaints and complaints!
  6. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 30 November 2017 13: 59 New
    +4
    So about the Su-34 was a similar "fitback" after Syria. Electronics
    does not work, aiming on the ground no. They were recalled, returned ...
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 30 November 2017 14: 03 New
      +7
      Links to the studio!
      1. Vlad.by
        Vlad.by 30 November 2017 15: 20 New
        +4
        Everything is in Israel! But they will not show you. Take a word.
    2. Alexey-74
      Alexey-74 30 November 2017 14: 14 New
      +3
      The first time I hear ... well, let me give a reference .... only not "Evening Jerusalem" ....
    3. hrych
      hrych 30 November 2017 14: 26 New
      +6
      Quote: voyaka uh
      So about the Su-34 was a similar "fitback"

      You mixed up with f-35 laughing
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 30 November 2017 16: 42 New
      +4
      Quote: voyaka uh
      So about the Su-34 was a similar "fitback" after Syria. Electronics
      does not work, aiming on the ground no. They were recalled, returned ...

      Can I find out where the woods come from?
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 30 November 2017 16: 49 New
        +2
        Su-34 checked in Syria with KABami. When electronics
        worked - hit. But there were many diverse failures.
        They were recalled for inspections and repairs of avionics, then half were returned.
        Then the QABs ended and switched to the FABs. And with the FABs there was no point in using them.
        Worked mainly Su-24.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 30 November 2017 16: 51 New
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          But there were many diverse failures.
          They were recalled for inspections and repairs of avionics, then half were returned.

          Can I read the fact of refusals and reviews? Where did this info come from?
    5. Gale
      Gale 30 November 2017 16: 52 New
      +4
      it may well be .. since the main work on bombing in Syria was and is done by the old su-24 and su-25, and even the same strategists were bombed more than the self-propelled su-34 ..
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 1 December 2017 09: 26 New
        0
        Of course, in the news, Su-34 is not reported about every departure, unlike strategists.

        In general, you can throw FABs from anywhere, and Su-24M is still under 2020 decommissioning, it’s not a pity to finish their resource.
      2. sogdy
        sogdy 1 December 2017 11: 36 New
        0
        Quote: GaLe
        Yes, even the same strategists bombed more than the self-propelled su-34 ..

        And sho did we set them for ourselves?
        Take your head out of the toilet.
  7. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 30 November 2017 14: 02 New
    +6
    This is the point. The highest rating is the rating of pilots ..... we always have problems with electronics, it's a pity of course I did not think that everything was so serious.
  8. Million
    Million 30 November 2017 14: 09 New
    +4
    it even became interesting: which country’s electronics is installed in our helicopters? we have the whole electronic industry about *** in the 90s
    1. Viktor.12.71
      Viktor.12.71 30 November 2017 14: 30 New
      +4
      European was. Now there are two options: either revive what was lost in the 90s and catch up with Western analogies (if at all possible) or work with the Chinese to get everything they need + noticeably reduce the gap from the west. I think people are not there and yet cooperate with the Chinese in this area.
      1. sogdy
        sogdy 30 November 2017 14: 58 New
        +4
        Since 2009, production and development at two Radian factories has been restored (out of 10). But everything needs to be integrated into existing technologies - or a full replacement should be made with domestic technologies, and they are very different. From the time of the KR580 far gone. And not where we developed.
        And build new vacuum plants in the absence of builders.
  9. gukoyan
    gukoyan 30 November 2017 14: 28 New
    0
    I don’t know, as for me, the helicopter completely unsuccessful came out.
  10. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 30 November 2017 14: 31 New
    +1
    The most offensive is that the money spent on it, and no one will incur punishment. At best, the left brow will be punished for the species ...
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 30 November 2017 15: 05 New
      +1
      And what a shame?
      Not up to date on R&D circles? But this is still an objective reality.
  11. Alexander War
    Alexander War 30 November 2017 14: 42 New
    +8
    This is a turn, and then trust the military acceptance of the Zvezda shopping center sad
  12. Romanenko
    Romanenko 30 November 2017 14: 56 New
    0
    There, as I recall, the trouble was also with the rotor gear ...
    I wonder if they eliminated it or not ???
    1. Piramidon
      Piramidon 30 November 2017 15: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Romanenko
      There, as I recall, the trouble was also with the rotor gear ...
      I wonder if they eliminated it or not ???

      As can be understood from his speech, everything was eliminated in mechanics, and only in electronics - blockage.
  13. Ryazan87
    Ryazan87 30 November 2017 15: 13 New
    +2
    It’s Bondarev who didn’t say anything about dances from the over-muzzle radar, which they have been torturing for 10 years.
  14. Professor
    Professor 30 November 2017 15: 53 New
    +8
    Selling not expensive glasses for helicopter pilots.
    http://worlddefencenews.blogspot.co.il/2014/10/el
    bit-systems-to-provide-apache-aviator.html


    1. donavi49
      donavi49 30 November 2017 18: 09 New
      +2
      Hindus fly in such. Also, similar systems had to go for the Ministry of Defense under a contract with MiG - but did not have time before the sanctions.

    2. APASUS
      APASUS 30 November 2017 22: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      Selling not expensive glasses for helicopter pilots.

      I suppose it will cost you 300 years in prison. I don’t think that the Israeli authorities will give you a discount on the origin.
  15. prior
    prior 30 November 2017 16: 08 New
    +3
    Our electronics ?!
    Do not tell my faberge!
    At best, a Taiwanese crystal mounted in the Yoshkar-Ola cermet!
    Everything else is the remains of Soviet reserves.
    And the money went to buy iPhones for iPhone.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 47 New
      +1
      In Taiwan, in fact, they make ordinary civilian electronics, thin ones in the military commissar. processes are not needed, and often even harmful.
  16. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 November 2017 17: 07 New
    +2
    Is the Ka-52 a different electronics provider?
  17. spirit
    spirit 30 November 2017 18: 42 New
    +4
    Cut !!!! Wunderwaffle, for such a loot they can’t earn !! Oh, and that the article is not about the F35? recourse
  18. Sergey53
    Sergey53 30 November 2017 20: 54 New
    +1
    I expressed my thoughts on a similar topic of testing parachutes 23. 11. I wrote that the development should be carried out with interested structures and not just the manufacturer. They tried to troll me. And from this article I am right. The plant produced what he wanted and in fact shit. And now it will be eliminated as much as God puts on a soul. To ruin our money with you. So who is right?
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Aimpoint
    Aimpoint 30 November 2017 21: 24 New
    0
    And how many more such items for suicide bombers are in the army?
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 1 December 2017 11: 53 New
      0
      All. For "we will all die. Someday."
  21. APASUS
    APASUS 30 November 2017 22: 00 New
    0
    Nevertheless, they didn’t bring them over to the full-fledged radar to a real working model. Here again ...
  22. Zomanus
    Zomanus 30 November 2017 23: 54 New
    0
    Well, yes, the Night Hunter in Syria was famously treated.
    By the way, nothing is heard about the Alligator in Syria.
    Well, then avionics needs to do a new one.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 49 New
      0
      Well, so far he has distinguished himself in the lumbago of the nose fairing with his own cannon and shorting the electric trigger circuit. But these are, in principle, working moments.
  23. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 1 December 2017 04: 13 New
    +1
    And where was he before when he was commander in chief request
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 1 December 2017 12: 13 New
      0
      Tried to use what is now criticizing.
      That's why they put it on acceptance.
  24. Steve57
    Steve57 1 December 2017 05: 04 New
    +2
    At the very beginning, MI-28 lost the competition for a new attack helicopter (and Apache in India), since then ten times have stepped on the same rake!
    It was not necessary to take it into service, spent a lot of money and time.
  25. EvilLion
    EvilLion 1 December 2017 08: 58 New
    0
    "You make us fly on coffins," said the People's Commissar, that is, the Minister, of the Leverage Aviation.
  26. AKsvlad047
    AKsvlad047 1 December 2017 09: 17 New
    +2
    Know the flaw, so fix it! There is nothing to take out dirty linen in public
  27. Anyone
    Anyone 1 December 2017 12: 27 New
    0
    Quote: sogdy
    Nicho that this fifth vashcheta also is engaged in hardware?

    Right! The satellite is mostly metal. Therefore, you are absolutely right, monster, the production of satellites is the production of metal products (hardware). Satellites cast. Whole. From cast iron))
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 2 December 2017 20: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Anyone
      satellites are the production of metal products (hardware). Satellites cast. Whole. From cast iron))

      You won’t believe it, but all machining, including plastics, is part of the hardware specialty.
      The most disgusting - and machine tool equipment is included in this specialty. And even its manufacture.
      Even more disgusting - all the equipment and measurement methods are included in the specialty.
      Will you speak for electronics? Vacuum technologies, development and manufacture of assemblies on single crystals - in whose textbooks and practice?
      What other news would you like to learn about secondary engineering?

      Well and after, and who would suit you?
      1. Anyone
        Anyone 2 December 2017 21: 45 New
        0
        all machining, including plastics, is part of the hardware specialty ...

        What is a specialty hardware? )))
        PS I didn’t read further, because metal processing is a technology, and the acronym “hardware” (metal products) is a simple nomenclature. And you have made a specialty from the nomenclature and almost already established the Hardware University. You have some kind of porridge. No offense only. OK?
        1. sogdy
          sogdy 3 December 2017 13: 46 New
          0
          Quote: Anyone
          I did not read further

          Read the directory of specialties. And you will be Schasste.

          But, in theory, you are right, the specialty is “engineer”, the rest is “specialization”. But already in the year 73 this was not considered. And they changed the curriculum.
  28. andreyps2008
    andreyps2008 1 December 2017 22: 52 New
    0
    If the problem was only with MI-28 ....
  29. andreyps2008
    andreyps2008 1 December 2017 22: 59 New
    0
    Quote: andreyps2008
    Our electronics ?!
    Do not tell my faberge!
    At best, a Taiwanese crystal mounted in the Yoshkar-Ola cermet!
    Everything else is the remains of Soviet reserves.
    And the money went to buy iPhones for iPhone.


    And this is true, thanks to China. A lot of things will have to be brought to mind, and someone should be made extreme for cutting money, and the army lobby.
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 2 December 2017 20: 21 New
      0
      Quote: andreyps2008
      and someone to make extreme for cutting money, and the army lobby.

      Interestingly, what edge do you want to “make extreme” and “cut”? Investigator?
  30. Vintovkin
    Vintovkin 3 December 2017 04: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Bongo
    but "flashed" 25 years.

    A clear sign that the opponent has run out of arguments and facts)))
    Moved closer to the individual)
    1. sogdy
      sogdy 3 December 2017 14: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Vintovkin
      Moved closer to the individual

      Cheburek, because according to the rules of the Russian language I am an “opponent”, I will answer:
      Bongo rubbed for showing personality in the army. Since there is a clear definition that "individuality in the army is manifested only in the clarity, timeliness and effectiveness of the execution of the order," I was very interested in what he had in mind with respect to the Chief of Staff. Of course, provided that this Wishlist is implemented, for example, by himself.
      By the way, as a "former Jew", you should note that it is not specified which order. And this nuance is reflected in the Charter.
  31. sogdy
    sogdy 5 December 2017 07: 51 New
    0
    Bongo,
    Currently, Bondarev is Chairman of the Committee on Defense and Security of the Council of the Federation of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation. Those. member of the Security Council. To talk about the same thing.

    From the level of the commander of a separate battalion (let’s omit the specifics of the outposts), the commander is engaged in the warhead least of all. If you don’t know, 4 brigade commanders were “collective farmers”, and their units were proud of it.
    Are you sure that Bondarev drove nonsense? That his statements are not justified by what you did not think about? I'm not talking about the "specific understanding" of our semi-foreign journalists (and their editors).

    And Bondarev created the videoconferencing. By the way, involving the strengthening of the stratospheric group.