Military Review

Knights in rich armor ... Continuation of the “tournament theme” (part five)

75
Once in Dresden armory ward, of course, the first thing I turned my attention to the knights in the richest and most magnificent armor. Truly, you can look at them from different angles for a very long time. The skill of their creators was very high, so sometimes you just wonder how it was created at all. However, aliens with lasers have nothing to do with it, as well as fake villains from the world historical the mafia. These armors have been described many times in the past. Granted, sold and resold, so each of them has its own, and a long "credit history". And today we, firstly, will tell you about some technological methods of designing knightly armor from 1410, and secondly ... we will show many wonderful armor "close-up" and in detail.



The easiest way to protect the iron armor from corrosion was to gild them. And beautiful, and rust does not take. Well, from the inside it was possible to clean them! Reitarskie armor times Thirty Years War. (Dresden Armory)

As is known, the first all-metal knightly armor appeared around 1410 of the year. Prior to that, they had a chain mail barmitsa, so they cannot be considered fully solid-forged. There were no decorations on them, or rather, it must be said so - the polishing of the metal was their only decoration. However, even then there were originals, such as, for example, a certain knight, John de Fearles, who in 1410 gave the pound sterling to the Burgundian 1727 gunsmiths XNUMX, that is, ordered completely time thing. That's really Burgundians, probably surprised. But very soon the look of simple polished iron ceased to respond to the aesthetic tastes of Western European knighthood. The situation of the time of the “epoch of chain mail” was repeated, when all the figures acquired a dark metallic color and it became completely impossible to distinguish them.


The armor in the Pisa style, that is, made in the city of Pisa. Northern Italy, 1580 g. Their design is made by etching. The background is selected, so a flat image remains on the surface. (Dresden Armory)

Now the knights turned into statues of polished metal, and the problem with their identification arose again, especially since the knighthood at the time began to give up shields, and already in the 16th century refused almost completely.


German Reiter 1620 Armor. Works of the master Christian Muller, Dresden. (Dresden Armory)


In addition to armor, or rather, a number of different weapons are exhibited next to them in the Dresden Armory. Accordingly, the swords of these riders are also exhibited next to the Raitar armor, but the main thing is the pistols belonging to them, which can rightfully be considered masterpieces of weapons. Usually these are two-wheeled pistol headsets. They were worn in holsters at the saddle with the arms forward, so as not to sit on them accidentally when landing in the saddle. But it is clear that there were always people who wanted to arm themselves "to the fullest." And then they wore two more pistols behind the lapels of their boots and one or two behind the belt. So six shots at the enemy of such a horseman were guaranteed, unless, of course, the castle refused. In front of you is a hammered, fully gilded helmet, a pair of similarly decorated pistols with wheel locks and a powder flask. Pistols are marked with CT letters. Place of production Augsburg, until 1589 g. (Dresden Armory)


The same helmet close-up. Augsburg, before 1589 (Dresden Armory)


Well, this is the saddle from the headset, which included this helmet, pistols and powder box. So after all a little of all this seemed! The saddle was also decorated in that technique !!!

It was possible to cover the armor again with heraldic robes, and in some cases the knights did, but the technology for coloring iron in different colors became very popular. The most common staining method was bluing a dark blue color. It was produced on hot charcoal, and the master gunsmiths, especially Italian, were done so skillfully that they learned not only to achieve uniform coloring of large items, but also to get any shades. Very appreciated the armor, painted in purple, as well as in red (sanguine). Milan had a gray color, well, and the traditional black bluing, which was obtained by roasting parts of armor in hot ash, was used everywhere and very often. Finally, in Milan in the 1530-s bluing brown color became fashionable. That is, the armor remained smooth, but it was already colored. It should be added that both gilding and silvering of armor were not forgotten.


The armor was made not only for adults, but also for children, so that they could learn to wear them from early childhood. These blued armor are for children! The work of master Peter von Speyer, Dresden, 1590 (Dresden Armory)


But this pikinersky helmet "sweat" (pot) or a cabinet and a shield. Both products are engraved and gilded. Nearby Walloon swords. Augsburg, 1590 (Dresden Armory)


Morion and shield, with the shield in the form of an "inverted drop." Chasing on iron. The second half of the XVI century. (Dresden Armory)


Burgonet and shield. Decorated with blackening and gilding. Augsburg, 1600 (Dresden Armory) It is clear that in such helmets and with such shields no one went to battle. All this ceremonial equipment of the court guard of a duke or elector, designed to impress his guests and potential allies and opponents.

Then, in Italy in the middle of the 15th century, they began to use engraving to decorate armor and shields, and from the 1580s to combine it with gilding. The easiest way was chemical using golden amalgam. Gold was dissolved in mercury and the product was coated with this mixture, after which it was sent to the oven to heat it. At the same time, mercury evaporated, while gold was tightly combined with iron. Then the surface of the product could only be polished and the armor took on an exceptionally rich look. But this technique can not be called perfect. The method was also dangerous for the master himself, since there was always a danger of breathing in mercury vapor. On the other hand, such gilding was very solid, although it required a lot of gold.


An unusually lush helmet - chased burgonet with black burnishing and with stamped chased details of gilded copper in antique style. Augsburg, 1584 - 1588 (Dresden Armory)


Arme helmet, armored saddle and shield. Presumably Augsburg or Nuremberg, the second half of the XVI century. (Dresden Armory)

By the end of the 15th century, plates of armor and shields began to be decorated with edging, which were made by etching. There was a method of high etching and deep etching, which differed in whether the image on the surface was convex, and the background was in-depth, or vice versa. In the first case, a very flat terrain was obtained, while in the second, the image was close to the copper engraving technique. That is, durable varnish or wax was applied to the armor detail. According to it, a drawing was made with an engraving needle and filled with acid, sometimes repeating this operation two or three times. Then drawing trimmed with incisors. Etching combined blackening and gilding. When blackening, the black and caustic mineral oils were rubbed into the resulting grooves, and then the part was heated. The oil evaporated, and the black bonded to the base metal. When etched with gilding gilded usually flat grooves of a sufficiently large area.


War armor work by Jacob Göring. Dresden, 1640 (Dresden Armory)


Another set of so-called three-armored (they were also called field) armor, which belonged to the Saxon Elector Johann-George II, the work of master Christian Muller, Dresden, 1650 (Dresden Armory)


The blackened three-legged armor of the work of master Christian Muller, Dresden, 1620 (Dresden armory).

Etching of the grooves during etching was usually carried out with a mixture of acetic and nitric acid, as well as alcohol. Of course, the master kept the recipes of these mixtures in strict secrecy. However, the main thing in this technology was the experience of the master. It was necessary to catch the moment when it was necessary to drain the acid so that it did not corrode the steel too deeply or so that the drawing did not come out indistinct.


Over time, the masters learned to combine various techniques. They used stamping, etching, carving, gilding and silvering, black and colored metal. The result of these delights are, for example, such French parade armor, made before 1588, in front of you a parade set with an additional chest plate for the cuirass. (Dresden Armory)


Ceremonial set of the work of master Elyzius Libarts, Antwerp, 1563 - 1565 Black bluing, chasing, gilding. (Dresden Armory)


A helmet is a Morion for this armor, in case his owner would like to remove his fully closed armor helmet.


And the saddle, without which, according to the views of that century, the headset could not be considered complete and perfect.

To be continued ...
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  1. XII Legion
    XII Legion 29 November 2017 07: 16 New
    19
    The Dresden House, as I understand it, is one of the richest
    Like this article is a real photo album
    Very beautiful
    Thank you!
    1. kalibr
      29 November 2017 07: 39 New
      +6
      In Dresden, due to lack of space, only ... 10% of the exhibits were exhibited !!! And at the cost of the exhibits, a pity - yes. And the richest in number is the Vincennes Armory, then the weapons museum in Leeds in England, and the Paris Army Museum, but also the Metropolitan Museum of Art - also very rich. Both our Hermitage and the Kremoyev Armory are rich and the same problem - how to set everything up. The easiest thing to do was in Graz ... but there is mass weapons there, there are no such masterpieces.
    2. NF68
      NF68 29 November 2017 17: 53 New
      +2
      The Dresden House, as I understand it, is one of the richest


      This is not entirely true. In the Austrian city of Graz in the arsenal collected more. I did not post this material for a long time-https: //topwar.ru/129897-avstriya-rycari
      -graca.html
      1. kalibr
        29 November 2017 20: 08 New
        +1
        I do not argue that more. Although exhibited in Dresden, only 10% of the availability. In Graz, the collection is very large. But there are more “ordinary” armor, armor of kings and electors in it. I saw this stuff. There were a number of very interesting photos with interesting details. It’s a pity that you didn’t pay attention to some of the readers of VO, but not all of them noticed ...
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 29 November 2017 08: 03 New
    +4
    Subtle, however, work, masters .. painstaking work .. Thank you, interesting ..
  3. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 29 November 2017 10: 13 New
    +1
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, and how long did it take to make such a ceremonial headset? It is clear that behind each name of the master is not a couple of apprentices, but quite a production facility. But this is not a continuous production, it is exclusive.
    1. kalibr
      29 November 2017 10: 25 New
      +1
      And I’ll try to answer this question as soon as I contact the science department of the Museum in Dresden. There is another question about spear spikes ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 29 November 2017 11: 08 New
        +2
        This is only the first part of the question. The main question is about "children's" armor. The main armor was clearly made not a month or two, and children, especially in adolescence, tend to grow. And if the Dresden exposition shows some kind of solution to the issue, such as a triple set for growth (at least it seemed to me), then the Hermitage exhibit leaves room for doubt, and it’s not ceremonial, but quite combat.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 29 November 2017 11: 16 New
          +3
          then the Hermitage exhibit leaves room for doubt, and it’s not ceremonial, but quite combat.

          it was created by order of a dwarf battle dwarf! angry joke wink Morion and the Cabinet deserve a separate article, as the main infantry helmets of the late Middle Ages. Immediately associated with the books "Odyssey of Captain Blood," or "Pirate of Queen Elizabeth." winked
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 29 November 2017 11: 28 New
            +1
            Well, here I also always leaned towards this option.
          2. kalibr
            29 November 2017 18: 14 New
            +1
            Yes, and here and there the heroes for boarding dressed in morion and cuirass!
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 29 November 2017 18: 24 New
              +1
              Yes, and here and there the heroes for boarding dressed in morion and cuirass!

              Yes exactly! That is, the image of the Spanish soldier represented exactly what in morion and cuirass! Eeeh .. I loved in my teens novels about pirates - "Black Corsair", "Pirates of the Gulf of Mexico", well, the aforementioned. And if there were pictures in the book (as in the Soviet edition of Sabatini), then the image became integral. request
              Vyacheslav Olegovich, here I am answering you .. and suddenly a thought .. and when, and with what suddenly I began to be interested in geography? what And then - I was looking for the island on the atlas! hi sometimes you remember interesting things, and realize again what
              1. kalibr
                29 November 2017 20: 04 New
                +1
                There was such a yellow book "library of adventures" - Odyssey of Captain Blood. Very beautiful graphics, where he fights on swords during the boarding of the "Arabella" and "Victorious" de Rivarol. Then the Captain Blood Chronicle appeared, but the pictures there were worse. And there was also the "Red Corsair" F. Cooper ...
          3. Michael_Zverev
            Michael_Zverev 30 November 2017 11: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Mikado
            then the Hermitage exhibit leaves room for doubt, and it’s not ceremonial, but quite combat.

            it was created by order of a dwarf battle dwarf! angry joke wink

            In addition to jokes, armor for court dwarfs is known, which were used for ceremonial exits, but quite functional.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Mikado
              Mikado 30 November 2017 13: 15 New
              +2
              thanks for the info! Court jesters - they could make another series of articles hi
        2. kalibr
          29 November 2017 20: 13 New
          +2
          3x3zsave Then there will be THREE questions, that's all. Have to sweat them!
    2. Curious
      Curious 29 November 2017 14: 01 New
      +3
      There is a curious document.
      1. Curious
        Curious 29 November 2017 14: 08 New
        +3
        And further.

        That is, the arms company of London took half a year to make armor for 500 people.
        It is clear that this is not garnished ceremonial armor, but the figure gives an idea of ​​the production capacities of that time.
        As for the exact time for the production of ceremonial armor, this question is unlikely to get a concrete answer.
        It depended on too many factors: on the customer, on who was entrusted with the production of the order (the number of people in production and the workshop’s employment with other orders), and the quality of the armor.
        Two examples.
        In 1473, Martin Rondel, perhaps an Italian gunsmith who worked in Bruges, who called himself “the gunsmith of my lord Bastard of Burgundy,” wrote to his English client, Sir John Paston. The gunsmith informed Sir John that he could fulfill the request for the manufacture of the armor as soon as the English knight informed which parts of the suit he needed, in what form, and the time by which the armor should be completed.
        At the court gunsmith Jörg Zeusenhofer (with a small number of assistants), the manufacture of armor for the horse and large armor for the king took, apparently, more than a year. The order was made in November 1546 by the king (later - the emperor) Ferdinand I (1503–1564) for himself and his son, and was executed in November 1547. It is not known whether Zeusenhofer and his workshop worked on other orders at that time.
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 29 November 2017 14: 10 New
        +3
        the syllable is worthy of Cervantes! I do not understand the then exchange rate, but the prices indicated before the obligation are interesting.
        1. Curious
          Curious 29 November 2017 14: 29 New
          +3
          1688 - a pig costs 16 shillings apiece, a deer - 2 pounds apiece, a goat - 10 shillings, a hare - 1,5 shillings and a rabbit costs 5 pence apiece
          1 pound = 20 shillings = 240 pence
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 29 November 2017 14: 40 New
            +3
            some in the materials you indicated operated on both pounds and shillings, others did not bother to make this transfer. Breastplate - 26 shillings. In general, to me, as an unprepared person, my brain breaks so much. Although in Russia then there was also something similar. Some "parts" of a penny are worth it! request
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 29 November 2017 15: 34 New
              +2
              And nefig over the hill rest "all inclusive." That's when on the pasture - conversion skills come very quickly. laughing
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 29 November 2017 17: 39 New
                +2
                Viktor Nikolaevich yesterday explained to everyone in the last resort how well-deserved decent honest people should rest laughing drinks there, however, a price tag with two zeros, and in euros. wink and pay another 200 euros - you will also get vodka and a woman on a yacht laughing joke! hi
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 29 November 2017 19: 45 New
                  +1
                  This is unsportsmanlike; the entire cymes of the event is lost.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 29 November 2017 15: 08 New
            +2
            A pound began to cost 20 shillings in 1663, when guinea, equal to the pound, began to be minted.
            1. Curious
              Curious 29 November 2017 15: 49 New
              +2
              Guinea was worth 21 shillings. The pound has always been 240 pennies. Shilling = 12 pennies. A pound of 12 shillings was never worth it.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 29 November 2017 15: 58 New
                +1
                That she in 1971 was worth 21 pounds, and for a couple of centuries its value floated in proportion to the rate of silver to gold.
              2. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 29 November 2017 20: 41 New
                +1
                Guilty, yes, screwed up. 1 pound = 20 shillings historically.
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 29 November 2017 14: 52 New
          +2
          Well, if you consider that at that time the pound consisted of 12 shillings, then it’s a worthy deal, especially given the crisis in the industry. That is, 30 years earlier, the armored personnel also dumped.
          1. Curious
            Curious 29 November 2017 15: 03 New
            +1
            Until 1971, the fuet consisted of 20 shillings. Since 1971, transferred to the decimal system.
            Until 1971, one pound is equal to:
            4 crowns
            8 half crown
            10 florins
            20 shillings
            60 groats
            120 half-feet
            240 pennies
            480 half pence
            960 farts
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 29 November 2017 15: 29 New
              +3
              "Doctor, we are losing him." wassat
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 29 November 2017 18: 50 New
                +3
                Take heart, Anton, prepare your memory, write down, now new knowledge will be forced into you am nobody has left the hands of VN unenlightened ... hi good
                1. Curious
                  Curious 29 November 2017 19: 07 New
                  +2
                  About how many wonderful discoveries
                  Prepare the spirit of enlightenment
                  And the experience of the son of errors difficult,
                  And genius, the paradoxes friend
                  And the case, god is the inventor.
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 29 November 2017 19: 34 New
                  +2
                  I'm still terribly sorry, Nikolai, but I was worried about your peace of mind, because I still have a lot to say for the English monetary system. hi
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 29 November 2017 21: 22 New
                    +2
                    say it! drinks I don’t understand it, I understand only in the Russian system recourse Shaw. You wanted a pack of cigarettes in the Dominican Republic cost nine dollars! As a smoker, I felt uneasy belay True, then the dollar was different ... what Thank God, rum was free there! because without him the contemplation of nude "syseido" German grandmothers with tattoos and piercings was impossible laughing
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 29 November 2017 21: 36 New
                      +4
                      They say correctly that there are no old German women, there are few rum.
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 29 November 2017 22: 28 New
                        +5
                        I am Russian, Germans do not attract me request as the saying goes, "the cross is useless, I am a Jewish vampire" laughing yes, by the way, the Americans didn’t have anything to look at there, except for poor education and poor intellect. negative But I would be a star if they heard my "Winter evening in Sorento!" .. on the balcony .. at nine in the evening .. drunk .. in family shorts .. laughing drinks
                  2. Curious
                    Curious 29 November 2017 21: 37 New
                    +2
                    So what about English money?
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 29 November 2017 23: 30 New
                      +3
                      Well, for example:
                      In addition to guinea (and much earlier than that), a gold sovereign was minted, the face value of which was clearly equal to 20 shillings (they added silver there or something). Guinea was finally replaced by a golden sovereign in 1817.
                      At the beginning of the 18th century, the shortage of precious metals led to the fact that the guinea cost 27 shillings in banknotes
                      Coins were also minted in the 18th century in denominations of a third and a quarter of guinea.
                      1. Curious
                        Curious 30 November 2017 08: 25 New
                        +1
                        So I do not argue. I’m just saying that the ratio of pound - shilling - penny was 1-20 -12
  4. Curious
    Curious 29 November 2017 12: 29 New
    +3
    "... however, the technology of dyeing iron in different colors has become very popular. The most common method of dyeing has become a bluing of a dark blue color.
    This process is called oxidation - the creation of an oxide film on the metal surface, which performs protective and decorative functions.
    There are thermal, chemical, electrochemical and plasma. It is clear that the latter two were not available to medieval masters. Yes, and the chemical, obviously, too, since it takes a lot of solutions to process such large parts, and such reagents as bismuth chloride were hardly widely available then.
    Judging by how this process is described by Wendalen Beheim, we are dealing specifically with thermal oxidation, which occurs when oxygen or water vapor is heated in an atmosphere. In the case of oxidation of iron and low alloy steels, this process is called burnishing.
    That is, the process of obtaining on the surface of the steel a layer of iron oxides with a thickness of 1-10 microns. Its color depends on the thickness of this layer - the so-called. discoloration colors, replacing each other as the film grows (yellow, brown, cherry, violet, blue, gray).
    For medieval craftsmen, the process was carried out in an air atmosphere at 310–450 ° C with a preliminary coating of the surface of the part with a thin layer of asphalt or oil varnish.

    As can be seen from the figure, the color is determined by the change in the heating temperature.
    By the way, the same Beheim says that the secret of bluing in gray is lost. Perhaps the Milanese masters really owned the method of chemical burnishing in gray.
  5. Some kind of compote
    Some kind of compote 29 November 2017 14: 36 New
    17
    Morion helmet is very beautiful
    Such would be introduced as a front GU
    Immediately obvious - commander laughing
    And no dads, no stripes
  6. Curious
    Curious 30 November 2017 08: 27 New
    +2
    Mikado,
    Excuse me, but representing a country abroad, you could worry about underwear. And then, I suppose, blue, army.
    1. kalibr
      30 November 2017 08: 50 New
      +1
      Oh, Victor Nikolaevich! We have a picnic under the grass on the grass under our balcony. At 22.05, my daughter went to tell them that there were enough drunken shouts, it was necessary to sleep. And they answered - "What are you so angry. Let us pour you and you will become kind." That Cyprus, that Dominica - since "our man", then he is OUR!
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 30 November 2017 11: 38 New
        +3
        That Cyprus, that Dominica - since "our man", then he is OUR!

        Vyacheslav Olegovich, thanks for the kind words! Our! By the way, the Russians behaved there more than worthy, which can not be said about the inhabitants of the United States. Their young there drunk "on the fly", as they say. drinks and noisy they hurt ...
        To the esteemed Viktor Nikolayevich: once - not Elton John. stop Stunned by miracles! fellow You are a seasoned person, and you were in India (where there are many, many wild Abyzis), and in Africa, and I .. only there, and once. hi next time I undertake, as a representative of a great country, to wear the most pretentious, with rhinestones, and let everyone die with envy! soldier (I can red, with a sickle and a hammer - sober up everything except Russian wink)
        1. kalibr
          30 November 2017 12: 47 New
          +3
          In Spain, I watched the scene in the restaurant: buffet, the restaurant is famous for its cuisine. There is everything - from a stewed lamb to a baked rabbit ... eat - I do not want. So what? Young people from Poland picked up full plates ... of fried potatoes + someone squeezed the mayonnaise, someone ketchup and ... they went to eat. I put myself a sausage, pickled beans with peach and braised lamb, a few olives and boiled broccoli - not a plate - a serving sample on the magazine cover. They sit, they see it, and stupidly eat their potatoes! The Germans came. Sausages were added to the potatoes ... and that’s it! The impression is that they are home sweeter than carrots did not see anything.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 30 November 2017 14: 16 New
            +3
            I saw this in the Dominican Republic. Seven o'clock in the evening - the Americans, as if on command, lined up in a column for two to the steakhouse. Although I really liked how they are fed there in an ordinary buffet, with a national flavor - they generally have good seafood. The mentality of each nation is its own! hi
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 30 November 2017 16: 50 New
            +2
            This is called a food stereotype. I discovered two dishes in Spain: fried tomatoes and a vegetable salad with oranges. Greece was richer in culinary news.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 30 November 2017 17: 01 New
              +2
              This is called a food stereotype.

              exactly. good I did not know how to give a definition, Anton drinks
            2. kalibr
              30 November 2017 18: 34 New
              +1
              3x3zsave Fried tomatoes are a thing, but they are especially good with Cypriot spices. Of our “hops-suneli”, but then salt is needed more!
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 30 November 2017 19: 59 New
                +2
                There was something like a "hop".
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 30 November 2017 20: 06 New
                  +3
                  I will fully support! for grilled vegetables, hops-suneli good
  7. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 30 November 2017 10: 10 New
    +2
    Curious, Absolutely right. I already recognized my cant and apologized.
    1. Curious
      Curious 30 November 2017 11: 28 New
      +4
      The discussion was held in an atmosphere of friendship and mutual understanding.
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 30 November 2017 12: 02 New
        +2
        just wanted to say: "someone died in the forest" laughing miracle true! drinks
        1. ruskih
          ruskih 30 November 2017 12: 34 New
          +5
          just wanted to say: “someone died in the forest” laughing miracle, truly!

          An article about knightly armor, knights .... maybe the “Spirit of chivalry” influences? wink
          1. kalibr
            30 November 2017 12: 40 New
            +3
            And you know that the knights had chain mail cowards! On the lining, of course.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 30 November 2017 13: 37 New
              +3
              And you know that the knights had chain mail cowards! On the lining, of course.

              did not know! hi for some reason, I immediately remember the picturesque underwear of Jean Reno from "Aliens". what And, yes, the “knightly spirit” from him was still that. no And do you remember how Druon described smells even from the simple clothes of His Grace Robert Artois?
            2. ruskih
              ruskih 30 November 2017 13: 37 New
              +4
              laughing Vyacheslav Olegovich, good laughed to tears!
              Please fire me from discussing this attribute of underwear publicly repeat
              But about convenience what let the strong half of our forum reason.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 30 November 2017 13: 46 New
                +2
                Please fire me from discussing this attribute of underwear publicly feel

                Vyacheslav Olegovich, enlighten us all about the evolution of this attribute. wink laughing can be publicly!
                1. kalibr
                  30 November 2017 14: 45 New
                  +2
                  I’ll show a photo !!!
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 30 November 2017 14: 53 New
                    +3
                    I’ll show a photo !!!

                    I don’t just go by Elena’s comment
                    I’ll make you laugh, then I’ll show her a photo! laughing
            3. Curious
              Curious 30 November 2017 20: 11 New
              +2
              And forged from steel codpiece !!!
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 1 December 2017 16: 08 New
                +1
                Landsknechts, it seems, were not forged, but some wore a wallet there. The enemy was demoralized, apparently. fellow
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 30 November 2017 18: 40 New
          +2
          There were no ghouls, but the moon is growing .....
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 30 November 2017 20: 08 New
            +2
            What are you talking about? wink How do you like the weather today? first normal snow! fellow
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 1 December 2017 06: 32 New
              +2
              This is me about a calm, constructive dialogue.
              1. kalibr
                1 December 2017 08: 14 New
                +1
                There is always a problem with this ... An indicator of the culture of the masses, however.
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 1 December 2017 12: 03 New
                  +2
                  In my opinion, culture is a personal phenomenon, not a mass one. Culture is the result of daily painstaking repression of the monkey within itself.
  8. Weyland
    Weyland 30 November 2017 21: 38 New
    0
    "the knight John de Fiarles, who in 1410 gave the Burgundian gunsmiths 1727 pounds for armor, a sword and a dagger, decorated with pearls, and even diamonds, that is, he ordered a thing completely unheard of at that time"
    Especially unheard of because the “diamond” cut was invented in the 17th century - and even the “rose” cut was invented only at 1465m (by the way, just in Burgundy)
    1. Curious
      Curious 30 November 2017 22: 22 New
      +2
      Pure anachronism. Now all diamonds used as jewelry are called diamonds.
      Until the fourteenth century, people generally used rough diamonds for fear of the disappearance of the magical properties attributed to precious stones.
      And that cut, which was performed by the Flemish jeweler Lodewick van Berkem in 1465, was called "pandels." Rose began to be cut in the XVI century.
    2. kalibr
      30 November 2017 22: 59 New
      +1
      You know I can’t say anything about this. I didn’t come up with this. This is taken from one of the English historians. The article is popular. There is a monograph Historiography of Knightly Arms. This example is there and it is indicated where it came from. I personally do not care deeply - but there is a source, there is a link. You need it?
  9. groks
    groks 3 December 2017 14: 29 New
    +1
    1. Is there a trace of a blow in one place of these armor? No? Well, why is this beautiful, certainly beautiful, falsification?
    2. When did they start mass production of wire? Steel wire. On a normal chain mail you need a bucket of rings, which you also need to connect, otherwise there will be no sense from the chain mail at all. Will we continue to fake, claiming that chain mail appeared before plate armor?
    3. Dresden was completely demolished by the Thousand Division. https://topwar.ru/8378-unichtozhenie-drezdena-194
    5-god.html Gold-plated trinkets didn't get hurt?
    I personally do not care deeply - but there is a source, there is a link.

    To granite!
    1. kalibr
      4 February 2018 22: 10 New
      0
      Mail from the Black Grave lies in the State Historical Museum.
      1. groks
        groks 5 February 2018 08: 17 New
        0
        And there are swords. So? And there are not many left of those swords. And chain mail was made of a wire of about 2 mm in diameter.
        As usual, I suggest checking - dig in a 2mm steel wire and see how soon it simply melts in the ground.