Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?

Tribune. Microphone. The economic (political-economic) guru takes the floor, bringing to the attention the idea of ​​“how we can equip Russia”. One guru, another guru, third guru, etc. If we make a comparative description of such speeches, then one thesis can often be distinguished, which is promoted as the main one: Russians for the most part work poorly and not for long.

Their labor productivity (that is, yours with us) is low, they (they, that is) retire too early to retire. Accordingly, the proposals expressed by the economic gurus regarding the “arrangement of Russia” turn out to be in fact like a carbon copy: we’ll develop the retirement age - we’ll raise the retirement age, for too long, the parasites live; The funds we earn will mainly be spent on investment in the Western financial and economic system (so that partners will praise and give visas to the people’s servants at another time), we will increase labor productivity with acts and other pieces of paper - at least at the local financial statements. On pieces of paper, something just MOGE - say the guru ...

Saturday. 25 November. V All-Russian Civil Forum. Sincere conversation "The future of the country's economy: the role of agglomerations" of Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin and head of the board of the Center for Strategic Research, chairman of the Committee for Civil Initiatives Alexei Kudrin. The conversation was officially presented as a “discussion”, although the discussion as such did not come out for the reason that the “discussion” theses were from a single test.

From the mouth of Sobyanin sounded what was mentioned above: labor productivity on average in the country is low. Further, as a Moscow mayor, Sobyanin Moscow withdrew from this “vicious list” of “low-productive”, declaring that the labor productivity of the average Muscovite is 2,5 times higher than the average Russian indicator and 5-7 times higher than the figure for rural areas. Starting with a remarkable Moscow labor productivity, Sergei Semenovich agreed to the point that he announced the presence of "extra" people in the countryside.

So that later, like that boy Kolya ”, there were no misinterpretations about“ words taken out of context ”, it is better to quote a direct quotation from the Moscow mayor. It is published by the news agency. TASS:

Using the example of the Russian Federation, I can say that labor productivity in Moscow is 2,5 times higher than the average for Russia, and if you take the countryside, then 5-7 times. We live in the rural area conditionally "extra" 15 million people, who for the production of agricultural products, taking into account the new productivity technologies in the village, are largely not needed, these are either officials or social workers, but fewer and fewer people who can find high-performance and high-quality work. The situation is similar in small provincial cities. There really is less and less good employment and quality jobs.

So, labor productivity in the country is low, according to the deep conviction of a Moscow official, because of the presence of “conditionally extra” people. In Moscow, there are no “extra” people, everyone works like a bees and ants, but there are people in the village. It would seem, based on this thesis, the economic gurus will propose to redirect part of the funds that continue to be actively invested in American cut paper to infrastructure projects to support the village and small cities. It would seem that now there will literally be a phrase about the need to build a full-fledged state program to create jobs in the province, to extrapolate technologies to the whole territory of Russia, to develop the immense territories of the country, and not just within the Third Transport. But no ... We are listening to Sergey Semenovich further:

The authorities are going against natural trends occurring in the whole world, where urbanization has not stopped. It is the fastest growing in the largest cities of the world. And it is abundantly clear that without changing the structure of the population settlement, without concentration in large metropolitan areas, we cannot raise labor productivity, neither high technology, nor science, nor education, nor health care, nor human capital. Without this, Russia will lose competitiveness in the economy.

Well, then - again about Moscow from Sobyanin:

Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.

That is, the idea is as follows: the state is driving “extra” people to megacities; these “extra” people are looking for a place under the sun as effective managers and other merchandisers. They will rearrange Chinese soft toys and Turkish tomatoes from the shelf to the shelf 3 once a day, re-stick the labels so that the buyer, naively thinking that he is buying goods at a discount, will pay one and a half times more than “before the discount” - this is for you and productivity growth. What do you think ...

No, well, you can, of course, begin to be outraged - they say, how can that be, and where are the ideas about the development of the village that feeds Russia and not only Russia, how does work on the land? - after all, merchandisers and managers do not raise the industry to the levels required for economic growth.

But who needs our perturbations and other things, forgive me, snot ... Noo-to. This is obvious, based on at least the thesis that since the days of another economic guru, E. Gaidar, the market is built in Russia. And the market and social responsibility are incompatible things. Moreover, the concepts “modern Russian market” and “social responsibility of big business and officials” are even more incompatible. When there are no intelligible criteria for assessing labor productivity and social responsibility (excluding responsibility to a small group of persons), then you can hang noodles on your ears that “buy-sell” vendor has “5-7 times more productive labor than a teacher in a rural school. " For what patterns is determined by comparing the productivity of a single paramedic for five neighboring villages and employee productivity, for example, a hospital of the Ministry of Defense. Is it possible to carry out such a comparison at all when the level of provision of medical institutions in the village and in the center of Moscow itself is “intergalactic distance”.

We have learned to send a person (and now also an American ...) to space, but our officials still do not know how to send a person (doctor) by ambulance to individual Siberian villages. They don’t know or simply don’t want to know, they just don’t want ... Less than “conventionally superfluous” people - less spending from the budget. After all, the provision of medical services to remote settlements does not give advantages to the treasury of a market economy, does not give benefits (as officials understand it) to the treasury of international relations. And here, on the top, it is much more important what report about Russia will be given to Deutsche Welle or the New York Times, than how things are going in Russia without looking through German, British, American and other “partner” prisms.

And then, you see, he was 60 for years, he’s just 40 for years on the tractor otpahal - and already retired, a parasite, a drone ... As if not so - take your feet in your hands, drive to Moscow agglomeration, there you will make “A real contribution to the market economy”, don't you dare to compete with guests from Central Asia, these are our strategic partners! Allocate funds for a new tractor, create new jobs in the village itself to increase productivity? - Well, no, pipes - not for that, we have tens of billions of people vdukhuyvayutsya in Kudrinomika, to let the petrodollar on some kind of “extra rusty” petrodollars.

So, the main brake of Russia is designated: these are millions of “provincial drones” who, you know, do not allow to move forward by leaps and bounds. It is the provincials. Well, not the army of officials, not the herds of corrupt officials with 10-th budgets of regional centers under the sofa, not total theft on the creation of infrastructure facilities, not "servants of nations" with Swiss or Florida real estate issued to a second cousin, but "extra" people, not wishing to work "in a modern way" ...

"Conditionally extra people." One can imagine the political future of officials somewhere in our so much honored individual EU leaders, if they would say something like that in relation to their fellow citizens ... And in our case, it is possible. Expert assessment, you know, ideas of development. Slaves still do not understand, because "take words out of context." And indeed, how can we understand the words in such a context ...

Comments

[Same lech]

From the lips of Sobyanin sounded what was mentioned above: labor productivity in the country is low on average.

Like salary ... you demand more productivity from people ... pay more too.
Now the average bar is limited by the financial authorities of RUSSIA to 25-30 thousand rubles, while the authorities want us to work as Stakhanovites and receive them as blacks in South Africa in the last century.
In general, Sobyanin is pursuing a policy of total urbanization of Moscow by liquidating houses with a small number of people and building mega residential buildings with the maximum number of residents ... moreover, in a voluntary-forced manner, as is always done in RUSSIA ... and this is understandable why ... huge are at stake money.
I really don’t like it ... the control of the authorities over a person’s personal life takes on a total character ... you will not be left alone.

[pin_code]

My opinion is that the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members, are over 15 million. And life will become easier, life will be more fun. I was in Moscow in 16, I saw what money was being spent on and I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which nothing is built except for shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...

[Grandfather]

Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?

a little more, and the whole of Zamkadye will be systematically leveled with bulldozers, and build golf courses, for Outrageous ... and retirement will be considered a criminal offense ..., with eviction to some sort of Island, in the Laptev Sea.

[Bureaucrat]

Well, of course, we do not work, we are in the Kuzbass so little things, we chop coal, we cook steel, we bring down wood, and so on. etc.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Bureaucrat

Well, of course, we do not work, we are in the Kuzbass so little things, we chop coal, we cook steel, we bring down wood, and so on. etc.

In-in.
And it’s also interesting - how is this very labor productivity calculated for Russians who live in different regions and engage in different types of activities? I understand when comparing, let's say a mine in Kuzbass and a mine in Yakutia, you can compare the number of miners, production, the cost of coal, etc. But in Moscow there are no mines. And gas and oil are not produced in Moscow, and metal, and wood, and much more.

[dauria]

And it’s also interesting how this Russian labor productivity is generally calculated,

I also thought ... Probably, in rubles, divided by man-hour. Like, the change of machine-tool workers at the cold landing site in Saratov earns as much as the foreign exchange whore in the Kremlin in an hour. Ay-yai-yay ... Loafers. (By the way, instead of a “whore” you can put a bunch of metropolitan “professions.” For example, a journalist, mayor, deputy ... )

[GUKTU76]

There is such a thing - gross domestic product (this is for the country) or gross regional product - for the region. In rubles. It is divided into the soul. Population, if you compare countries. Workers, if companies are compared. The most amazing thing is that there is absolutely no difference how the revenue is earned. Here https://vz.ru/economy/2014/5/30/689252.html about the UK.
It is clear that the capital firm’s turnover is higher than the provincial one of the same profile. And our logistics is mainly from the capital. So no wonder.
But with work in the Moscow region has always been tight. Usually the majority of the population of the region has always worked in the capital.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: GUKTU76

The most amazing thing is that there is absolutely no difference how the revenue is earned. Here https://vz.ru/economy/2014/5/30/689252.html about the UK

The article just writes that:
"Russia in its GDP does not take into account the volume of the shadow economy or the economy from illegal activities, such as drug trafficking and prostitution."

Quote: GUKTU76

There is such a thing - gross domestic product (this is for the country) or gross regional product - for the region. In rubles. It is divided into souls. Population, if you compare countries. Workers, if companies are compared.

That is, GRP is stupidly divided by the population of this region. The technique is of course delusional. Accordingly, Sobyaninsky:
"labor productivity in Moscow is 2,5 times higher than the national average
Moscow is not a black hole that draws in talents and finances. This is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions "
it's bullshit.

[GUKTU76]

The technique is of course delusional.

Until another came up. Incidentally, provides interesting material for thought.
In general, in capitals, as a rule, people live more comfortably than in the provinces. In Soviet times, compared the level of meat consumption per capita. In Moscow, this figure was 168 kg. In Kalinin - 18. Therefore, a mocking joke about a train smelling of sausage is based on realities. It seems that from that time, by and large, not much has changed.

[nickname7]

Blackmokona,

The most amazing thing is that there is absolutely no difference in how revenue is earned.

What makes the difference is not, but there is a difference in the price of transportation.
The Russian Federation is a country with huge distances and you did not take into account such an important parameter as the cost of transportation, on a compact territory, the costs are low, due to the short distances.

[Blackmokona]

Very simple, we take the company's revenue and divide by the number of employees

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: BlackMokona

Very simple, we take the company's revenue and divide by the number of employees

And a shopping center, for example, is this an enterprise? I agree - Moscow entertainment has much more revenue than provincial ones. Only now I doubt that the labor productivity and the driver of the economy, the mall have a strong relationship.
Or such a nuance - the head office of the enterprise in Moscow, taxes to Moscow, and oil is extracted in Zauryupinsk. The question is how to compare the effectiveness of the Moscow builder-waiter-security guard-bartender-stylist who serve managers from this office with the efficiency of those who produce oil in Zauryupinsk?

[Blackmokona]

They simply divide the company into a number of companies. The head office is one company, oil production in Zauryupensky is the second company.
For example, there is a Samsung Group where the main Koreans sit
There is a Samsung Electronics, where they produce electronics.
And there is Samsung Russia, which stores and sells Samsung products in Russia.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: BlackMokona

They simply divide the company into a number of companies. Head office one company, oil production in Zauryupensky second company

Well, who do you think shares Rosneft, for example, and why? But even if someone actually shared, then comparing the productivity of managers from the head office, their servants, and oil workers is just nonsense.
Therefore, the words of Sobyanin, this is a gobbled lie.

[Blackmokona]

Rosneft belongs to the state, and it shares. We look.

Rosneft Public Joint Stock Company is a Russian oil and gas company, the majority stake of which is owned by the state-owned Rosneftegaz JSC. In 2013, it became the largest oil producer in the world [4] [5]. According to Expert magazine, in 2012, it ranked third among Russian companies in terms of revenue [6].

That is, the head office is Rosneftegaz, and the hard workers are Rosneft.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: BlackMokona

and hard workers are NK Rosneft

"Oil company" Rosneft ". Headquarters - in Moscow.
Good workaholic settled down.
And you still cannot answer the main question -
how to compare the effectiveness of the Moscow builder-waiter-guard-bartender-stylist who serve managers from this office with the efficiency of those who produce oil in Zauryupinsk?

[Blackmokona]

Taki explain in more detail then.
Rosneftegaz buys oil at cost from Rosneft and then sells it to the world market.
Rosneft's additional product is equal to the cost of oil, $ 20 per barrel.
An additional product of Rosneftegaz at the world oil price minus payment of Rosneft. Ie 40 dollars
Then we divide the obtained data by the number of employees. We get labor productivity.

[Vadim237]

In Russia, labor productivity is probably measured by the amount of taxes paid by the employer. The more tax deductions, the higher labor productivity.

[nickname7]

An officer in Zaurupinsk will earn less, because - in a tiny city compared to Moscow, there are stupidly fewer visitors, there are no tourists and minuscule offices.
There is such a thing as "division of labor", the higher the division of labor, the higher the productivity. The more professions in the city, the richer the city. The richer and more developed the country, the more agglomerations it has. There are two agglomerations in the Russian Federation, and eight in the states. Moscow is an overconcentration of the population, science, culture, finance, low transportation costs, which gives a synergistic effect, unattainable if it is spread over a large area.

[SERGUS]

Quote: BlackMokona

That is, the head office is Rosneftegaz, and the hard workers are Rosneft.

Her, you are confusing something: JSC Rosneftegaz, an asset management company in the oil and gas industry, owns shares of Rosneft, is registered in Moscow! NK Rosneft - an oil and gas company, registered in Moscow! And hard workers somewhere in the north!

[dauria]

Very simple, we take the company's revenue and divide by the number of employees

Then the recipe !!!! To kill everyone, leave only ten oligarchs, enrolling them in the state of Gazprom. Collect hard workers from Tajiks, but not to the state of Gazprom, but to a third-party office, "Horns and Hooves" for a penny, and not legally Russian. The Japanese will envy such performance with all their robots.

Well, as the simple thing does not come to pass - extra people have appeared not from the fact that somewhere productivity has grown, but because production has ceased.

[karabas86]

And for 1 with a bipod seven with a spoon, that’s low productivity, and a spoon is always larger than a bipod.

[demo]

Already far from the boy Sergei Sobyanin, in terms of his development, in the plane of ethical standards, he did not go far from the notorious boy Kolya, who spoke in the Bundestag.
Moscow produces the most important, most needed, most demanded and liquid product - money. Much money.
And he is there - the mayor.

I have long been tormented by the question: here, officials become such politically and socially amorphous ciliates-shoes, without shame and conscience, or they were born and mimicked like that under normal people.

[fif21]

Quote: demo

Already far from the boy Sergei Sobyanin, in terms of his development, in the plane of ethical standards, he did not go far from the notorious boy Kolya, who spoke in the Bundestag.

Krylov’s fable "Pig under the Oak" he clearly did not read.

[evsyukov_a]

Well, how else? Salary, of course! My friend cleaning company for some 5 thousand. 2 sofas demolished in the trash. From the 3rd floor. In exactly half the salary of a nanny in the kindergarten. Or in the hospital ...

[karabas86]

It’s interesting to compare the productivity of the designer of pubic haircuts and the miner, it turns out that the work of the hairdresser is more intense

[White and fluffy]

Can be compared at the newly created value.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Bureaucrat

Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?

Breathe smoothly. He is not about you. It’s about the village, the single-industry town, ....... Oh, Eburg is not lucky, he doesn’t pull on megacities. Well, Kuzbass looks like that too. Little coal .... does the country need this? MOSCOW! And I'm in it - the navel of the earth.
Thatcher recalls this speech: “For Russia, 30 million is enough (I don’t know who they meant, people, heads, slaves, rams ...). Yes, 30 million and 100 million.“ The distances are long, ”but you need to start. Today they found 15 million extra, tomorrow another 5 million, look, and the "process has begun" ..... (or has it been going on for 30 years?)

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: pin_code

I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which they build nothing but shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...

And what does Sobyanin have to do with it? Moscow is the same subject of the Russian Federation as the Novokuznetsk region, Moscow is the donor region, Novokuznetsk region. subsidized region. Every 10th ruble kept in the treasury of the Russian Federation is earned by Muscovites, if there are only 12 donor regions in the country, and the rest are subsidized, these are all questions to the head of state, and not to the head of one of the subjects of this state ....
There are no oil, gas, gold, etc. in Moscow. however, for some reason, it was a donor both in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR and now ...
Well, what he says, it can be explained simply - HE IS NOT MOSCOW, and he does not care about this city, as far as I know, he is from Siberia ....

[japs]

"MOSKVITYANIN
And what does Sobyanin have to do with it? Moscow is the same subject of the Russian Federation as the Novokuznetsk region, Moscow is a donor region ...
... Well, what he says is easy to explain - HE IS NOT MOSCOW ... "

I think the quoted is quite enough ...

[Dr_engie]

Only here during the USSR in Moscow there was such an oil industry, and now there are only managers.
And what kind of overwork then Muscovites earn every 10th ruble, interesting?

[Galleon]

Here is a list of Moscow factories: http://www.wiki-prom.ru/city/6city.html
In addition: transport companies need to be listed, or remember yourself - working both for the city and for the country as a whole? Communication doesn’t produce anything, it provides services, but nonetheless ... Without Moscow, we wouldn’t be sitting on the forum here - there would be no communication. And to feed 15 million people daily is not work? Is it possible to earn a ruble, is it just steel pouring or fattening bulls? What about the MIG Corporation? And the Khrunichev association? No need to say questions in the heat of the moment. In Moscow there are only 3 car repair plants, 3 concrete plants - XNUMX pieces, take a look at the list.

[vik669]

What about the MIG Corporation? And the Khrunichev association? It’s not necessary - that they have been producing it in recent years, so 20 and other enterprises from which the signs have been preserved. Take away taxes from all over Russia from Moscow and 3,14dets to Moscow, and let each Muscovite give a Far Eastern hectare to show labor productivity there.
The whole Union plowed on our "dear capital" and now ....! And the attitude of Russians towards Moscow and the "Muscovites" has always been and is appropriate! Well, whoever controls the beekeeper or the reindeer breeder there doesn’t matter - there is no holy place!

[MOSKVITYANIN]

vik669 give each “Muscovite” a Far Eastern hectare there to demonstrate labor productivity

The law allows us to get it ourselves, without any ado, the "toad" strangles that you yourself can get your 2x2 meters in Moscow at best only in a strictly designated place on the graveyard, but you still need to buy this 2x2 section, you can cheaper but for cremation someone from your relatives will have to sell your Far Eastern hectare, gee ....

[michell]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

And what does Sobyanin have to do with it? Moscow is the same subject of the Russian Federation as Novokuznetsk region, Moscow regiondonar, Novokuznetsk region subsidized region. Every 10th ruble located in the treasury of the Russian Federation is earned by Muscovites, if there are only 12 regions in the country donars, and the rest are subsidized, so these are all questions to the head of state, and not to the head of one of the subjects of this state .... There are no oil, gas, gold, etc. on the territory of Moscow however for some reason she was donar and under the Republic of Ingushetia, and during the USSR and now ...

Now, armed with a spelling dictionary, re-read your opus, VERY CAREFULLY, RE-READ everything that is written in the comments THREE times, carefully study the map of Russia, and now, maybe, after that it will reach you, why the province of the inhabitants of the throne is, as it were, softer say ... don't like it.
Donors, ... (hereinafter S. Lavrov)

[scaramaks27]

The Russian government reported on the federal budget for next year. According to Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, it takes into account the likely tightening of US sanctions against the Russian Federation. The Minister noted that the possible arrest by the Americans of domestic gold and foreign exchange reserves (gold reserves) will be regarded as a declaration of economic war.

If the sanctions restrictions include the freezing of foreign accounts of the Central Bank, which contain securities and currency from Russian reserves, this would be tantamount to declaring a financial war in Russia
- quotes Siluanov Interfax.

The minister noted that the Russian budget is based on the oil price of $ 40 per barrel. This gives a certain "margin of safety" and confidence.

At the same time, Siluanov believes that the scenario of the arrest of gold reserves is unlikely.

However, in 2014, the Russian government was not so sure. As it became known from the report of the US Federal Reserve, immediately after the accession of Crimea, the Russian Central Bank withdrew about 115 billion dollars from the United States. At that time, the Kremlin was afraid of freezing the country's foreign exchange assets and did not take risks. True, after some time all the funds were returned to the United States.

Recall that the Central Bank of Russia is the largest buyer of gold in the world, acquiring more than all other Central banks combined.

Explain, please!

[MOSKVITYANIN]

michell study the map of Russia

He studied at school, and therefore it is surprising why regions rich in minerals (in Moscow there is nothing of natural resources) live like rogues, they probably like it ....

after that it will come to you why the province of the inhabitants of the throne, as it were softer to say ... They do not like.

Before that, like Violet, I don’t baptize children with them, I don’t like Moscow, why would they go here, would live happily at home with their Governor and their resources ....
It’s your karma to give if there is that the Russian Federation and not get anything in return, all claims to the Government of the Russian Federation, you can leave the Russian Federation with your region, Muscovites do not hold anyone by the sleeve ...
We have our own constituent entity of the Russian Federation having the same rights and obligations (in terms of paying taxes to the budget of the Russian Federation, we are in the first place) like others, I do not like the fact that the capital of Moscow, we will not oppose the whole of the Russian Federation ....
People will not go to a bad place to earn money and live there ...

Donors, ... (hereinafter S. Lavrov)

So they answered their question, why Muscovites do not care what

You will understand why the province of the inhabitants of the throne, as it were softer to say ... They do not like.

were beggars, beggars and will remain, you are a projection of the Ukrainian people who hate the Russian Federation but go there to earn money ....
we don’t mind coming, we need janitors and laborers, sweeping our city, and in your free time you can hate us ....

[tank64rus]

I agree to all 100%. To remove them all there to the West only the people's money is a pity Trump confiscates.

[Overlock]

but some just excitedly praise the Reindeer Breeder. For me, it's time to plant it. how much harm he did to Moscow!

[Galleon]

Quote: Overlock

but some just excitedly praise the Reindeer Breeder. For me, it's time to plant it. how much harm he did to Moscow!

Overlock, on one of the topics I put + to each of your posts, but here our opinions differ. How much harm did Sobyanin do to Moscow? By demolishing stalls and pavilions by the subway? I think that by this he cleared the paths to bomb shelters. What else? Tell me, maybe I really don’t know? Moscow prettier under Sobyanin, the city became very beautiful and well-groomed. This is just the opinion of a man who came here already the third dozen years ago.
Well, and here's another one: is it really so drawn to the choir of obgavshayuschih? Are you sure you are right in this? To myself, his thought is disgusting and perfectly characterizes him, but is it not better to remain silent - there will be enough people who want it without you, and you will be protected from sin.
Our time is interesting - familiar things or phenomena get new names. In krajina, the most terrible kind of fool - proactive (I put it very gently, other expressions are closer to reality) - is called an activist. Activists are engaged in running and ruining their own country. Here, in the discussion of articles, there is also a bed of still verbal activists. One offered to shoot teenagers at demonstrations and gathered 8 sympathizers !!! Others offer - first money - then work - 38 voters !!! Only this zoo doesn’t amuse - it’s from humanity. A fresh example: Golovan Jack’s post next to this one of mine - normal and on business - 3 likes - and Greenwood's return bark - a real bark! - 17 likes!

[Overlock]

I am against a beautiful wrapper of poor content. Believe me, Moscow’s health has done a lot of damage. This is more important than stalls, tiles, etc., for me, at least.
Here is one of the achievements: only in the first half of 2015 in Moscow the growth in mortality was 4,9%! In total, in 2015 in Moscow the growth of community-acquired (at home) mortality amounted to 72%, including among able-bodied (!) Citizens (252% !!!)!
Do you know that in Moscow medical emergency teams were eliminated (paramedics go), emergency medical care was eliminated?
Do you know that an ambulance rushes around Moscow to attach a patient, because in Moscow there are not enough places in hospitals? Do you know that in cardiopulmonary resuscitation in Moscow, resuscitation patients wait for a place on chairs until someone dies or is transferred?
Little can be said, very much cannot. This is enough for me.

[Galleon]

I don’t know much from what you said. I know that the brigades set a fictitious arrival time - you can’t spend more than 8 minutes on a trip according to the standard - this figure has already been reported to Sobyanin as an achievement. Go to the hospital? I didn’t do this with a perforated ulcer, I went around at home. Yes, alas for us. We here are superfluous, we do not fit into their numbers.

[nickname7]

This is not Sobyanin personally doing, this is a liberal course, the Roselites, quick-aid brigades are being liquidated not only in the capital but throughout the Russian Federation.

[Overlock]

what is being done in this part throughout Russia, it’s better not to say that there are no nerves. In this case, it was a reindeer breeder

[Greenwood]

Quote: Galleon

Golovan Jack's post next to this mine is normal

Funny, honestly.

Quote: Galleon

and Greenwood's return bark - a real bark! - 17 likes!

But this is not funny. Waiting for clarification.
PS I’m glad that judging by the same likes, there are much more intelligent and sensible people on the site than edrosovskih licking.

[Zheleznostop]

To celebrate the dog’s birthday and roll back 2,5 million rubles for the event, it’s not uncommon in Moscow.

[lukewarm]

Quote: pin_code

then the extra 15 million include the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members

The trick is that they are much smaller. If there were 15 million of these, then 2 ways:
1. we would have long eaten all the bark on the trees and in desperation killed these "conditionally 15"
2. we would have a different country. these 15 would spend their money somewhere in the end, and something would be different for those around them, then there would be no such terrible bundle.
The oligarchs - to the masses !!!!
Threat. It's all a joke

[leonid-zherebtcov]

I very much agree ..., and it’s time to carefully shake this gang of kudrin and sobyaniny for prevention ..

[karabas86]

And so throughout Russia, production is dying.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

demand more productivity from people ... pay also more

Not this way. First work, then salary.
A familiar fitter on Energy, yeah ... check in the morning, zero-twenty-five forfeits - and - went to work ...
I would have fired immediately on ...

[Greenwood]

Quote: Golovan Jack

I would have fired immediately on ...

And who do you work with yourself, huh? Benefit the state? Or do you sit back in the office? "The firing agent"?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Greenwood

And who do you work with yourself, huh?

A.
I work.
Since there are no normal Russian offices, I’m working at the custodianoff for now ... I’m exactly, the main thing is to do the job.
A couple of young people are working with me there ... the system administrator is from Vladik (I couldn’t find a closer hike), the guy who TradeX admin is from Baikal ... is also a passing beam, yeah ...
You tell me how to work correctly .. maybe I’ll listen

[Greenwood]

Kapets, reading is hard. Someone has the Russian language on both legs.

Quote: Golovan Jack

there are no normal Russian offices

Where did they go?

Quote: Golovan Jack

safekeeping

And this man is trying to taunt people who do not favor power. Patriotic, what.

Quote: Golovan Jack

A couple of young people are working with me there ... the system administrator is from Vladik (I couldn’t find a closer hike), the guy who TradeX admin is from Baikal ... is also a passing beam, yeah ...

I read about admins from Vlad and from Baikal (although I didn’t ask about them). About specifically your work - no. And by the way, you work, I think, in Moscow or Moscow Region, no further.

Quote: Golovan Jack

You tell me how to work correctly .. maybe I’ll listen

I did not hear (did not see) the answer to my question ...

[E_V_N]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Since there are no normal Russian offices, I’m working at the custodianoff for now ... I’m exactly, the main thing is to do the job.

There are no normal offices, is this in the sense of less than what the French pay? "I’m exactly, the main thing that they do the thing" must be translated as ... I do not care if they only paid?

[faiver]

those. plump at work is that normal?

[Same lech]

Not this way. First work, then salary.

I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.
I made a good, fast and full payment to pay for it as it should at market prices, and not as much as I want and turn it around.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.

First you need to find work, this is the most important condition.
We already remember a certain citizen promised 25 million jobs.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Stroporez

We already remember a certain citizen promised 25 millions of jobs

Do you really need so many of them?
Or is one enough for you?
Zakanivaet already speak for all .. you are nobody, and no way to call.
I wake up with this, and I say the same thing to myself, yeah

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Zakanivaet already speak for all .. you are nobody, and no way to call.

Well, to begin with, I'm a Citizen, albeit a tiny one, but part of the People.
I express my personal opinion, although the citizen's promises were public.
In the period from 2014 to the 17th, many of my friends lost their business and work ... now they tax at night, but so many taxi drivers are no longer needed, and people simply can’t find another job, it isn’t!

PS. You can say anything to yourself, but tie up with rudeness on the site, you put yourself in an awkward (soft) position.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Stroporez

tie with rudeness on the site, you put yourself in an awkward (soft) position

An example of rudeness is in the studio. Try not to hurt the site’s rules, everything else is your maiden, you know ...

Quote: Stroporez

Well, let's start with the fact that I'm a Citizen, albeit tiny, but part of the People

The keyword is tiny. I didn’t authorize you to speak on my own, for example, and from my friends, relatives, colleagues.
Speak for yourself ... it's that simple, believe me ...

Quote: Stroporez

In the period from 2014 to the 17th, many of my friends lost their business and work ...

Ah ah ah...

Quote: Stroporez

and people simply can’t find another job, it isn’t!

In "can not" - I believe. In the "no" - sorry, I do not believe.
People are used to sleeping and camping for a long time. And work, as a rule, requires a certain effort.
That's the whole story to the penny

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Quote: Stroporez

We already remember a certain citizen promised 25 millions of jobs

Do you really need so many of them?
Or is one enough for you?
Zakanivaet already speak for all .. you are nobody, and no way to call.
I wake up with this, and I say the same thing to myself, yeah

Don’t pay attention, it’s the Communists, they destroyed RI with a chakushka when the country was in trouble, then with a chakushka p .... whether the Union, to hang out beautifully, didn’t manage to hang out for everyone, that’s why they freak out, but they didn’t know how to work, they don’t know how ....

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Don’t pay attention, it’s the Communists, they destroyed RI with a chakushka when the country felt bad, then with a chakushka p .... is there a Union to hang out beautifully,

Just without the chakushka. Both in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR there was a prohibition.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

however, for some reason, it was a donor both in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR and now ...

Deprive you of all blessings, immediately jump out to the square, as in 91.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Mordvin 3 Deprive you of all blessings

Announce the list of benefits ....?

[your1970]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Announce the list of benefits ....?

- for example, supplements to salaries of doctors / teachers, supplements to pensions, transportation, paved roads - which are cleaned in winter 18 000 cars - we have whole 2(a scraper — which is not allowed to clean + water-washing in the city) and even when they clean around the clock — the city is cleaned in a week, not earlier ....

[MOSKVITYANIN]

own1970 for example surcharges to salaries of doctors / teachers, surcharges for pensions

These social benefits come from the Moscow budget (why can't the richest region afford it?), and not from the federal ...

transportation, paved roads - which are cleaned in winter by 18 000 machines

everything is contained and purchased t / s on lease from the budget of Moscow ....

we have whole 2 (the scraper — which is not allowed to clean the city + watering) and even when they are cleaned around the clock — the city is cleaned in a week, not earlier ....

this is your problem and the Government of the Russian Federation, to hell Moscow, you should give something for free ....

[E_V_N]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

own1970 for example surcharges to salaries of doctors / teachers, surcharges for pensions

These social benefits come from the Moscow budget (why can't the richest region afford it?), and not from the federal ...

transportation, paved roads - which are cleaned in winter by 18 000 machines

everything is contained and purchased t / s on lease from the budget of Moscow ....

we have whole 2 (the scraper — which is not allowed to clean the city + watering) and even when they are cleaned around the clock — the city is cleaned in a week, not earlier ....

this is your problem and the Government of the Russian Federation, to hell Moscow, you should give something for free ....

It is convenient to talk about the budget of Moscow, forcing to register all oil and gas production, as well as industrial production from the regions in Moscow. And what do 25 million Muscovites produce besides hundreds of tons of orders of no interest to anyone, orders, directions, reports? You all pro-production in Moscow have effectively profiled. It was the engineering Mosvich (not so hot what a car) and ZIL well, where are these plants now.
You answer a simple question, why does the district doctor in Moscow get 4 more than in Muhosk? Is it that in 4 times smarter or in Muhosk people in 4 times are more simply arranged? Only after that, you can talk about the budget of Moscow.

[your1970]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

everything is contained and purchased t / s on lease from the budget of Moscow ....

where does the budget of Moscow come from? What is produced in Moscow? what product - besides the written-up paper in the form of orders / directions / instructions / resolutions? You even did not have large wholesale stores in the city — all in the region.
If tomorrow accidentally move the capital to Yekaterinburg / Saratov / Uryupinsk - exactly six months later (after the oil industry / gas industry and the Central Excise Customs + Central Energy leave) Moscow will be an absolutely subsidized city and grandmas from the mall will not save you

[1Leningrad]

Rich in what? The fact that all taxes are consolidated in Moscow and then distributed from the lord's shoulder to the regions.

[Zheleznostop]

The minimum pension is 17000 in Matskwe and 8000 for the rest of Russia.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Ironstop

The minimum pension is 17000 in Matskwe and 8000 for the rest of Russia.

When your region ceases to be subsidized, maybe your pension will be bigger, just kidding, your region will always be rogue, because It’s more convenient for you to go to work in the donor region before making your local authorities work for YOU, and not for yourself ...

[Dr_engie]

Well, yes, it’s the effective managers that built the superpower, not the workers.

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Well this is the Communists, they destroyed RI with a chakushka when the country felt bad, then with a chakushka p .... Is the Union to hang out beautifully

Well, finally, everything became clear. Also, a quote from the movie "almost mastered."

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

they didn’t know how to work, they don’t know how to ....

You, the capitalists, but know how to work. Buy imported junk on deshman and then sell it for exorbitant prices. Here it is all your work. They squandered what was left of the Communists, piled up offices and shopping centers and sat happy.

[E_V_N]

Quote: The same Lech

Not this way. First work, then salary.

I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.
I made a good, fast and full payment to pay for it as it should at market prices, and not as much as I want and turn it around.

But I do not agree, getting a job, you should know how much they will pay for the work with your qualifications.
A competent worker will not work on the principle that you do the work, and then we will decide how much to pay, and whether to pay at all.

[Galleon]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.

And I agree! But we understand that you offer the ideal, and life and the labor code are offered in a slightly different way: here is the position, workplace, here is the salary. I agree to work - sign and work. I do not agree - no one is holding, the queue is waiting outside the door. Unfortunately so. Having worked and worked, having recommended and waiting for the change of working conditions, you can play for an increase. And just like that ... such cases are not known to me.

[Stas157]

Quote: Golovan Jack

A familiar fitter on Energy, yeah ... check in the morning, zero-twenty-five forfeits - and - went to work ...
I would have fired immediately on ...

I asked this question, and in practical terms. Why do people with low salaries and hard work break down regularly, that is, drink? Discussed this issue, both with working collectives, and with their chiefs. And he came to an unambiguous conclusion - from hopelessness. It’s very hard to work hard all the time, and not make money at the same time. It is hard to live, seeing the disorder of the family and the inability to improve it, even working in the sweat. Alcohol here acts as a lubricant, a kind of outlet, an opportunity to forget for a while about your heavy burden. Unfortunately, this social phenomenon is systemic in our country.
Layoffs in this case do not really help, because in their place come the same, for obvious reasons, to the above-described reasons.

[nickname7]

There is no direct correlation between salary and food, and they drink with large salaries. Is it not enough to earn and drink the last crumbs, so that the family gets even less? Rave. Stupidity, this, attributed alcoholism to certain difficulties, asking the alkonaut why he drinks, even greater stupidity, because he has a chemical addiction.

[Trotil42]

And you pay him as much as he receives the same locksmith, say in the USA ... you won’t believe what kind of queue you will have for this position .. you will have to carry out casting ... we’ll come over ... and for now you don’t want to do it, run off for him checkmark ... at first not work and not a salary ... think for yourself what you write ... first social. guarantees..insurance..pensions..etc .... .... the family of the deceased major in Syria was paid 1 mil.rub .... i.e. 18 thousand tanks ... there is a family left ... children .. old people .. they need ... here and think ... is it worth it? so run ... you have such a fate ...

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Trotil42

And you pay him as much as he receives the same locksmith, say in the USA ... you won’t believe what kind of queue you will have for this position .. you will have to carry out casting ... we’ll come over ... and for now you don’t want to do it, run off for him checkmark ... at first not work and not a salary ... think for yourself what you write ... first social. guarantees..insurance..pensions..etc .... .... the family of the deceased major in Syria was paid 1 mil.rub .... i.e. 18 thousand tanks ... there is a family left ... children .. old people .. they need ... here and think ... is it worth it? so run ... you have such a fate ...

And you find him a buyer of his products for dollars at a price like in the USA, then he will pay ....

[Trotil42]

In our country, this simply is not possible ... it simply does not need the ruling elite ... if there is raw materials and excess energy, it’s cheap enough (hydro) ... super cheap skilled labor ... the likelihood of solving the problem as a locksmith increases ... and this is the ruling elite understands (the creation of the Russian Guard with the purchase of attack helicopters and flamethrowers .... a fried appetizer fitter) .... well .. how to raise labor productivity .. if 22 mil .. Russians have no income equal to the cost of living ... which means not replenishment of labor costs to a person ... by laboring he loses more .. actually this is genocide ...

[E_V_N]

[quote = MOSKVITYANIN] [/ quote]
And you find him a buyer of his products for dollars at a price like in the USA, then he will pay ... [/ quote]
And then what are you effective Moscow managers doing? Why not looking for profitable markets? Clever, do you release products, find a buyer, sell, and give money to the Moscow budget for your salary and beautiful Moscow life?

[MOSKVITYANIN]

[quote = E_V_N] [quote = MOSKVITYANIN] [/ quote]
And you find him a buyer of his products for dollars at a price like in the USA, then he will pay ... [/ quote]
And then what are you effective Moscow managers doing? Why not looking for profitable markets? Clever, you let out production, find a buyer, sell, and give money to the budget of Moscow, for your salary and beautiful Moscow life? [/ Quote]
I’m not an effective manager once, and secondly, I’m not forcing you to register your almshouse in your city for two ....
[quote] Smart, you release products, find a buyer, sell [/ quote]
no one forces you to do business against your will, and even more so in Moscow, she used to live quietly without you and will live without you for 100 years ....

[E_V_N]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

no one forces you to do business against your will, and even more so in Moscow, she used to live quietly without you and will live without you for 100 years ....

Unfortunately, Moscow did not live without people like me, it does not live and cannot live. And, unfortunately, without my will Moscow forces her darling to work for her, constantly increasing the share of deductions in her favor.

[Finches]

Sobyanin - I wanted to say something clever, but my vocabulary was not enough, so I blurted out! But he is still far from Dmitry Anatolyevich's pearls ...

[Ami du peuple]

Quote: Finches

Sobyanin - I wanted to say something smart, but my vocabulary was not enough

But deer will appreciate its vocabulary. Sobyanin must be sent back to the tundra, however.

[Ami du peuple]

Sergei Semenovich is not a Chukchi, however. He mal-mal mansi is

[Finches]

Horseradish radish is not sweeter ... "We will go, we will rush, On deer in the early morning ..."

[Ami du peuple]

Quote: Finches

"We will go, we will rush, On deer in the early morning ..."

... and seventeen times raise labor productivity! Ehei!

[Pax tecum]

But he almost repeated the phrase "they did not fit into the market" ...

[Pax tecum]

Many remembered the red rat with his “What are you worried about these people? Well, thirty million will die out. They did not fit into the market. Do not think about it - new ones will grow” 
More copyright "pearls":
“There’s nothing wrong with the fact that some of the pensioners will die out, but the society will become more mobile”
“I re-read all of Dostoevsky, and now I don’t feel anything for this person except physical hatred. When I see in his books the thoughts that the Russian people are a special people, God's chosen people, I want to tear them to pieces. ” 

And this is only a small fraction of everything said by the "elitists" about Russia and the Russians. Yes, I don’t advise reading again, otherwise the nerves are not iron ...
And, after all bastards with impunity carry nonsense!
And, impunity is the basis of permissiveness. Permissiveness from government bodies.
Then give the legislative apparatus of coercion the so-called "civil society", i.e. Us. Then the concept of “order” will acquire full-fledged meaning and logic, and moral and ethical foundations will prevail over ignorance and permissiveness.

Well, and how after this there is no desire to tear this pseudo-elite to pieces ?!
When will this chaos of impunity cease? Or is it just gaining momentum, apparently? ..

[passing]

Well, and how after this there is no desire to tear this pseudo-elite to pieces ?!
When will this chaos of impunity cease? Or is it just gaining momentum, apparently? ..

and you think why we are hammered into the brains every day, that power cannot be expelled, it’s necessary to watch shitfully everything that happened in Ukraine.
At this time, money is flowing abroad and there is only one logical explanation for this — every crook understands that he is a crook and instinctively hides the stolen one. What if they catch, remove from office, etc. At this time, people are poor

[Trotil42]

He told the truth ... 22 mil. people in the Russian Federation have an income below the subsistence level .. they do not compensate for their labor costs .. easier genocide of the people ... but it would be necessary to increase productivity ... to faster ...

[activator]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

I really don’t like it ... the control of the authorities over a person’s personal life takes on a total character ... you will not be left alone.

Yes, there is such a thing in Russia, either under the pretext of combating terrorism. And recently, Peter Belgorod rode the bus so twice the traffic cops or whatever you call them, checked the passenger passports. They don’t really need the driver’s documents anymore, but the passengers, yes, the second time, is there a question for citizens of other countries? suddenly Gaster without docks. For the first time I came across this and it somehow annoys.
The guys working in Poland on a monolith said that two hours after the deck was poured, everything necessary was put on concrete. This is where performance comes from, but they cost a lot of money, but a screwdriver should be screwed onto the forehead of a hard worker, so that it would plow around the clock much cheaper.

[ando_bor]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

we worked as Stakhanovites and received as blacks in South Africa in the last century

In the last century, blacks in South Africa earned more than we did when we worked as Stakhanovites,
Only in this century the blacks overtook: https://www.google.ru/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bnc
ppjof8f9_ & met_y = ny_gdp_pcap_cd & idim = count
ry: RUS: CHN & hl = ru & dl = ru #! ctype = l & strai
l = false & bcs = d & nselm = h & met_y = ny_gdp_pc
ap_pp_cd & scale_y = lin & ind_y = false & rdim
= region & idim = country: RUS: CHN: UKR: ZAF & ifdi
m = region & tstart = 698792400000 & tend = 1424638
800000 & hl = ru & dl = ru & ind = false

[Trotil42]

I confirm ... for 1 dol. The USA the Russian worker received on a salary makes 4 times more than the Americans ... we would have to eat plenty ... who in the USA gets into the shuttle

[Trotil42]

into the mine for 1 thousand bucks for 400 meters deep .. while the mine is explosive in methane? and they’re not being developed in the world ... and 1 thousand bucks is a vice of poverty .. who will mine gold and diamonds in Yakutia for 1.5 thousand bucks .. at minus 60 degrees? budget and doggie problems are solved simply by economic growth ... Moscow driver growth? Moscow and the Moscow region are the biggest debtors to the budget .. If there is growth, then corruption and theft ...

[Svarog]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

so that we work like Stakhanovites and get like blacks

With this power, we will soon be slaves, not in a figurative but in the literal sense. These are already far from reality, they have it of their own and we are slaves in their reality.

[Cadet]

The Muscovite’s labor productivity is 5–7 times higher than that of a rural worker, for which I did not notice the endless fields sown with wheat or corn in the capital. At one time, a sister in the Tyumen region added agriculture, so they tried to pull everything into the regional center.

[Severok]

Sobyanin is one of those who pursues a policy of consistent genocide and absolute control of the entire population of Russia by the authorities. What happens: rural residents are less dependent on banking services, digitalization is not necessary for them, network trading organizations cannot get anything from them, you can’t drive the village under video control, you can’t imagine substandard products. Thus, people living in rural areas are more independent from the authorities, they are difficult to control.

Rural residents are freer than city dwellers, chained to a wheelbarrow of work with banks hanging on their necks, with an ass sitting in a cool car that everyone is watching.

[Victorio]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Like salary ... you demand more productivity from people ... pay also bige.

--
productivity is much more dependent on organization and technology than on salary

[Vikxnumx]

And this body has not yet gone to the presidency?
The program is already ready!

[Herculesic]

So he himself will appoint a receiver-remember forever awake your forecast when it becomes at the helm of the country-the steering wheel will jam quickly and tightly.

[Grandfather]

if they "dig", then they will find many more "extra" people. The State Duma rejected the bill to restore indexation of pensions to all working pensioners, citing a lack of funds to finance its implementation.
Currently, there are 43 million pensioners in Russia, of which about a third (about 14 million) are working.
For reference:
Now the official income of the State Duma deputies is about 400 thousand rubles per month. This indicator is 13 times higher than the average salary of ordinary Russians. It is noteworthy that in the USA the salary of a deputy is more than the national average by 3 times, in Germany - this figure is doubled.

[Rurikovich]

Quote: Dead Day

Now the official income of the State Duma deputies is about 400 thousand rubles per month. This indicator is 13 times higher than the average salary of ordinary Russians. It is noteworthy that in the USA the salary of a deputy is more than the national average by 3 times, in Germany - this figure is doubled.

Our state has found an excellent indicator by which we can equalize the standard of living. I'm talking about "bruising." It is called "average wage." As it is calculated, only God knows. Although the slogans for "papitsot" have already changed to "thousand." Country average wage on snout For a thousand American candy wrappers in equivalent. And now we believe that the average salary in the country according to Belstat is somewhere in the region of 650-700 rubles. This is about 300-350 American rubles. As you can see, it does not even reach the notorious "five hundred". So these figures are more likely for the slogan and gloss over the eyes of the people. Now we have a joke about cabbage rolls. If the boss eats meat, and the rest subordinates cabbage (1 to 100 ratio), then on average everyone eats stuffed cabbage! And in order to raise the national average, they raise salaries, not just simple hard workers, but only shirts. As a result, the average is growing !!!! Voila Miracles and only

[Dr_engie]

Unfortunately, about cabbage rolls - this is such a bearded joke) in Russia for at least a year since 2001 I hear)

[Rurikovich]

Quote: Dr_Engie

about stuffed cabbage - this is such a bearded joke) in Russia for at least a year since 2001 I hear)

I don’t argue. It’s just that it’s very suitable for our realities and is in demand among the people

[Glory1974]

Now the official income of the State Duma deputies is about 400 thousand rubles per month.

You have old data. 800 thousand deputy salary. They are all right with labor productivity.

[E_V_N]

Quote: Dead Day

Currently, there are 43 million pensioners in Russia, of which about a third (about 14 million) are working.

Of the 43 million pensioners, about 27 million are “pre-term workers” (the military, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the prosecutor’s office, the Investigative Committee, judges, teachers, kindergartens, deputies, officials and others). Moreover, these categories retire on a special law, as a result of receiving a pension several times more than pensioners who left on a common basis in 55-60 years.

[your1970]

cross off officials - we have a pension officially with 65

[E_V_N]

Quote: your1970

cross off officials - we have a pension officially with 65

Are you serious? Have you forgotten that you leave after 15 years of civil service and even according to a separate law? Or did you write about 65 years and you think that no one understood anything? And then, at 59, settle down as a janitor, retire and do not deny yourself anything, only the officials don’t need it, their retirement pension is 40 years old, tens of times more than the “hard worker” from a factory that worked for 40 years production.

[your1970]

Quote: E_V_N

Cross off officials - we have officially retired from 65
Are you serious? Have you forgotten that you leave after 15 years of civil service and even according to a separate law? Or did you write about 65 years and you think that no one understood anything? And then, at 59, settle down as a janitor, retire and do not deny yourself anything, only the officials don’t need it, their retirement pension is 40 years old, tens of times more than the “hard worker” from a factory that worked for 40 years production.

1) according to the decree of the payment of a pension that has entered into force, only from 65 years on with civil servants
2) a length of service of 15 years is necessary at the age of 65 years - to receive a pension. There will be no 15 years to 65 years - there will be no pension
3)their length of service pension at the age of 40 - such NO with civil servants. Either you were jumped over by the military / Ministry of Internal Affairs / prosecutor’s office, or you just didn’t understand who you were writing about
4) a pension of at least 90% of civil servants is 8–9–12 maximum (from the level of the department head). Yes, there is more, but this is the level of heads / deputies of regional administrations - and there are no more than 000 - 2 of them throughout the country

Z. I am an ordinary civil servant, born in 1970, with a length of service in 28 years (including military and customs) and me before receiving pensions of approximately 11 left 15 years - and I am immensely happy from this (there were already bans for the mat)

Z.Y. you or not in the subject absolutely, or just blurt out, just to blurt out

[E_V_N]

Quote: your1970

Z.Y. you or not in the subject absolutely, or just blurt out, just to blurt out

You are offended in vain, you simply did not carefully read it initially, you consider each official to be a civil servant, but I said about those ... from the "list". And if you do not want to work before 65, quit and retire from the position of a non-civil servant. What is the problem?

[Cossack 471]

EVN Where did such data on military pensions come from? I’m a major of service for 21 years with the Nordic pension of 16 thousand. Yes, I retired early but did not lie on the couch. and "doubled the GDP" of the country. But what kind of product do Muscovites produce besides banking?

[E_V_N]

Quote: Cossack 471

EVN Where did such data on military pensions come from? I’m a major of service for 21 years with the Nordic pension of 16 thousand. Yes, I retired early but did not lie on the couch. and "doubled the GDP" of the country. But what kind of product do Muscovites produce besides banking?

Well, here you are, you have retired 19 + 21 = 40 years, a pension of 16 thousand. My aunt at 55 years old with 35 years of experience on a lathe has a pension of 9, graduate 500 times less. But you are 2 years old still full of energy to "double the GDP", and she has no strength left.
I don’t want to personally offend you, I believe that you honestly served in the “north”, but only you have hundreds of thousands of officers who saw the machine only in the pictures, but they also retire after 25 years. And at the Ministry of Internal Affairs, he had been sending pieces of paper to a 20-year-old friend in the personnel department, and at 42, he retired as a lieutenant colonel in retirement of 25 thousand. Wife's friend, head teacher 53 years old, retired 12 years, pension 17 thousand, salary head teacher 60 thousand

[Galleon]

Quote: E_V_N

besides you there are still hundreds of thousands of machine gun officers only in the pictures who saw

It's just some kind of darkness. Do you think that you developed all operations and strikes in Syria, a strategy of action, spun the "Syrian express", flew on airplanes and coordinated these missions and missiles, were engaged in reconnaissance of all kinds - officers with machine guns in their hands? For one officer with a machine gun in his hands there are several officers whose weapon is a communications device, a tablet, a helm or an electronic means. The topic is very emotional, but still pull yourself together - start thinking.

[E_V_N]

Quote: Galleon

For one officer with a machine gun in his hands there are several officers whose weapon is a communications device, a tablet, a helm or an electronic means. The topic is very emotional, but still pull yourself together - start thinking.

Remember Sharapova, "I haven’t eaten up at the food warehouse during the whole war." So I’m talking about this. I served and still never understood, and I don’t understand why the head of some kind of food warehouse or the modern "talking head" also retires after 25 years like an officer in the army. Why the titles are awarded not according to their deserts, but according to the "length of service", and the troops "fly" many times more than in the warehouse.

[Galleon]

Quote: E_V_N

I served and still never understood, and I don’t understand why the head of some kind of food warehouse or the modern "talking head" also retires after 25 years like an officer in the army. Why the titles are awarded not according to their deserts, but according to the "length of service", and the troops "fly" many times more than in the warehouse.

In something I warmly agree with you, but in some I want to object. How many officers will you meet in warehouses that you would like to see among your comrades? Well, if a person in his warehouse does not reach the combat officer, and there is a hunt to serve, let him serve where he can. Not this way? Warehouses are also different: in addition to food and clothing there are arsenals where sloppiness is not permissible at all and the quality of the chief is needed, like that of the commandant or chief of a guardhouse (just kidding a bit). As for the awarding of military ranks - I agree with you entirely. There was a swimming qualification in the navy under the tsar - at least kill yourself, but you won’t get the next rank if you didn’t swim the number of nautical miles laid down for him. Therefore, they drove the boats in the tail and in the mane, being alternately in two states: at sea or at home. But a new government came that needed bureaucrats and party members, not professionals. The censorship was canceled, the careerists didn’t get in the way, and after 20 years we had such personnel as Tributs, and the ships go out to sea only by force and rarely complete tasks or carry out exercises. And so everything is at the wall or at anchor.

[Cadet]

Sorry for the question, here is an example - the police colonel spent his entire service in his office retiring and receives twice as much as a simple tractor driver or a milkmaid two or sometimes three times?

[your1970]

Quote: Cadet

Sorry for the question, here is an example - the police colonel spent his entire service in his office retiring and receives twice as much as a simple tractor driver or a milkmaid two or sometimes three times?

- the difference in responsibility. A simple tractor driver can maximize your tractor - a simple police colonel can ruin the rule of law in the whole village / city / district / region / region ...
For this they pay for responsibility, for this they ask

[Dr_engie]

Well, they are asking something from all those responsible so-so ...

[your1970]

Quote: Dr_Engie

Well, they are asking something from all those responsible so-so ...

-And they strongly ask the tractor driver who ditched the tractor ahead of time? There’s nothing to take from him, he’s usually a goal like a falcon ...

did you forget the 90s, when did you shoot in large numbers on the streets of brothers / businessmen? And the fact that now there is none of this is one of the merits of the police.
About the inadequacy of the contingent, a separate song
An acquaintance served on duty. Call:
- on duty ......
- I was now in the Soviet blonde in the ass gave me !!!
- Well, they say, it happens!
- you do not understand, she gave me in the BACK !!!
- Well?
- Yes, why are you there, drunk or something ??? she gave me in the BACK !!!
He was offended - he made a complaint, checking and nerve-racking, six months before retirement. Naturally, they didn’t punish him - the woman drove into the complainant’s car, only in words - he could tell him a little to clarify the matter only five minutes later. Judging by the Internet, a fairly common story is practically literally. And this is a mild form of not quite adequate ..
Practically in every district department there are a couple of three clients - who, when they are closed, start to spoil and throw products at the employees, at the same time coating themselves. Moreover, they usually spoil them like volcanoes - for a long time.
And any head of the regional department — the colonel, went through this too ...

[E_V_N]

[quote = self1970difference in responsibility. A simple tractor driver can maximize your tractor - a simple police colonel can ruin the rule of law in the whole village / city / district / region / region ...
For this they pay for responsibility, for this they ask [/ quote]
Excuse me, the question was not asked about responsibility and salary, but about the pension for which the colonel leaves at age 45, receives 3 times more pennies than a tractor driver who worked up to 60. And at the same time, they have the same “responsibility” for retirement, that's just the strength and health at 45 (in the office) and 60 (on the tractor) are very different.

[antivirus]

Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.

V. Alekverov withdraws his Lukoil to the Smolensk region and Moscow becomes "the capital with a regional fate"
Sobyanin helps friends of GDP (to earn) - receivers can put forward

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: antivirus

Sobyanin

Никто.

Quote: antivirus

helps friends GDP

Schazz
antivirus
Not anti

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: VIK1711

And this body has not yet gone to the presidency?

The one now is the same.

Quote: VIK1711

The program is already ready!

The program is not only ready, it is already running.

[Mar.Tirah]

But let it attract more Caucasians to Moscow. The Russians are a burden to him there.

[Nonna]

The reindeer herder follows the path of his leader, Margaret Thatcher. Toy generally wanted to reduce the natives of Russia to 15 million. Moscow is a parasite on the body of Russia, a bunch of officials-bugs, liberal rot, a bunch of downshifters of all stripes from Gref, Kudrin, Chubais and this father of all the guest workers Sobyanov’s Don’t run Russia

[Sergej1972]

To begin with, Margaret Thatcher said nothing of the kind.

[Herculesic]

So send a saber to increase labor productivity wherever it is in the Kolyma mines, or even at a bonded sawmill.

[Alex_59]

So, labor productivity in the country is low, according to the deep conviction of the Moscow official, due to the presence of "conditionally superfluous" people. There are no “extra" people in Moscow, everyone works like bees and ants, but there are people in the village.

Unfortunately it is. This is not a matter of the Gaidar economy, but in common sense. In Soviet times, remote villages were created not simply because “oh, let's settle the people here”, but there was economic expediency in this. Forest to mine. Or coal. Or something else. In those technological conditions, this made sense and there was a benefit. And now much has changed, just humanity has taken a step forward in terms of technology development. And now the old infrastructure with the towns serving it has become unprofitable. Why is there a village in a dense forest? What is there that people should do useful. And in agriculture, too - what a crowd of collective farmers used to do now is making a combine harvester from an air-conditioned cabin with the help of a joystick. And what will those people now do that used to feed a crowd of collective farmers, sheared, clothed, clothed, transported? Nothing to do with it. Because now it is not necessary to feed, cut and dress so much - the combine is now one, and not a hundred people with a pitchfork. These processes did not begin yesterday. So Sobyanin is right in this sense. And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.
Another question is that this is all secondary. It is not visible that our Sobyanins saw our main problem - technological lag. We have practically killed high-tech production and nobody thinks how to raise it - this is the “invisible hand of the market" that private capital itself should force to stop carrying Chinese consumer goods and start producing iPhones. Although protectionism and technology purchase are flourishing all over the world - even Stalin bought everything that he reached in the 30-s, and all this in a processed form gave a technological explosion in the form of the first man in space and the atomic bomb. But ours think that they are smarter ...

[Same lech]

We have practically killed high-tech production and no one thinks how to raise it - this is the “invisible hand of the market" that private capital itself must force to stop carrying Chinese consumer goods and start producing iPhones.

I would add precisely the production of civilian products ... televisions, computers, refrigerators, etc., etc.
By and large, the country has not yet gotten off the raw material needle ... selling its resources to the right and left ...

[Alex_59]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

I would add precisely the production of civilian products ... televisions, computers, refrigerators, etc., etc.

Yes, with the military, too, not all thank God. What the robot collects in the West, we often (but not always of course) collect a crowd of craftsmen with screwdrivers, as it was in the 80 (in the 80, “they” had it too, their robots appeared later, and we do not really). What is characteristic - ours flies no worse, and sometimes better, than them, assembled by robots. But it still does not give rise to joy. The manufacturer now pays ten collectors a salary of 25 thousand rubles. And he could pay a hundredth to one operator, and also, as we see, put something in his pocket. But then nine masters have to go somewhere else to work and change their qualifications ... Yes, and the manufacturer should not invest feeble in a new assembly production ...
Well, that’s the reasonable question - who should provide all this? The state helps poorly. The process of retraining is debugged according to the same ancient patterns that were in Soviet times. Do you want this business to pull itself? Well, make them a tax break, give them loans at 0,5% on the condition that they use all this at 1) a radical modernization of production, 2) retraining of workers. And you will be productivity. But in our country, the state cannot intervene. In our country, the "invisible hand" must correct something there ...

[Cadet]

Are you sure that the operator will be paid a hundred, yeah, now

[APIS]

By and large, the country has not yet gotten off the raw material needle ... selling its resources to the right and left ...

That's just not got off. Low labor productivity because the farmer takes all the crops in the vine for a penny without making any money from storage or processing. Then outbid in the markets and show "high labor productivity", even taking into account the fact that a huge part of the crop goes to landfill.
And the mayor of the capital tells about high labor productivity, in which Tajiks clean the entrances with homemade mops, scoops are made from cut-off cans, and garbage is taken out in prams.

[SPLV]

Quote: Alex_59

And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.

Of course, damned. The rest of the population of Russia. Give the person in the hinterland a salary in the capital, and we will work. I understand that the manager in Moscow is poor, works for the crummy 100 of thousands, is trying. My niece in Moscow, a hairdresser, gets five times more than an engineer in our factory. And in our province, loafers do not want to work for whole 10 or even 20. Here are the bastards! To rubber them! Let them learn how to work. For 30. And then for less. Sobyanin thinks all about people. About Muscovites. Still, the deputies of souls on 200-300 serfs. And the 500 Sobyanin. And then Mascva will heal. And you can also bring slaves from Africa if there are not enough local ones. How did you get the Moscow workaholics in pink glasses. Good life? Come to our rural schools for seven to ten thousand, you can work in the field, in the forest. And when you see working conditions, it’s just a squeak and a squeal that you need to pay ten times more for such work. The poor you are unhappy in your warm offices, you don’t know how easy and joyful it is in the fresh air, to clear a forest in a minus 30 forest or at a construction site for 15-20 thousand. Happiness to you!

[avt]

Quote: SPLV

Give the person in the hinterland a salary in the capital, and we will work.

Yes, nichrome people like you will not work! Just like the maydaunas in Kiev, who crawled out for visa-free travel and a salary of 5000 euros here and now. Just like those who have fled to

Quote: SPLV

damn. The rest of the population of Russia.

And they hang out for the most part, blowing dust in the eyes of relatives from the homeland. So you clap on them, on your newly-born mascavists with envy

Quote: SPLV

My niece in Moscow, a hairdresser, gets five times more than an engineer in our factory.

Yes, they also sleep on a weekly basis at the facilities, but the main song is the same - here you pay more, then I won’t thump on the shift and cut sober circles around the guarded object at night with a watch so that it’s no worse than Karatsupa at the border.

Quote: SPLV

The poor you are unhappy in your warm offices, you don’t know how easy and joyful it is in the fresh air, to clear a forest in a minus 30 forest or at a construction site for 15-20 thousand

Is the engineer himself a forest lying in a field on a tractor at a construction site?

Quote: SPLV

I wish you happiness!

Yes, and the same to you, but in double size, which others sincerely desire. Well, Moscow was really fanned to disgrace by killing perhaps more than half of the real production and science, with the replacement of empty shopping centers.

[Alex_59]

Quote: SPLV

Give the person in the hinterland a salary in the capital, and we will work.

You won’t. I’ve seen such people - “first provide me with the conditions, and then I’ll earn kaaaak, wow!” You won’t. Those who wanted to work for a long time already and do not expect that someone will provide them with something.

Quote: SPLV

The poor you are unhappy in your warm offices, you don’t know how easy and joyful it is in the fresh air, to clear a forest in a minus 30 forest or at a construction site for 15-20 thousand

Honestly, I don’t know where the forest is mined for 20 thousand. Now there ZP not lower than 50-60. People work on the John Deere technique, you won’t put Vaska the tractor driver there. And I do not need to feel sorry, I sleep for 4 hours, work is not measured.

[E_V_N]

Quote: Alex_59

Honestly, I don’t know where the forest is mined for 20 thousand. Now there ZP not lower than 50-60. People work on the John Deere technique, you won’t put Vaska the tractor driver there. And I do not need to feel sorry, I sleep for 4 hours, work is not measured.

And will you go down the forest for 50, or is it still more comfortable in Moscow warm?

[Alex_59]

Quote: E_V_N

And will you go down the forest for 50, or is it still more comfortable in Moscow warm?

I’m not in Moscow, I’m 1500 km from her and I don’t want to go to Moscow))) And in general, what do I have to do with it? Everyone chooses what he considers acceptable. I won’t go to mine for another reason. For the same reason I do not want to go to Moscow.

[E_V_N]

Quote: Alex_59

Everyone chooses what he considers acceptable. I won’t go to mine for another reason. For the same reason I do not want to go to Moscow.

Unfortunately, basically, we are not vibrating, but life circumstances are “choosing” for us.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Alex_59

Another question is that this is all secondary.

I think no. Labor productivity is growing, and the population scattered throughout the country over a vast territory is forcing huge amounts of money to spend on infrastructure. In fact, this is all a relic of an agrarian society with low labor productivity, when a peasant with a horse plowed the land. It is necessary to accelerate urbanization and make a state program for this. This will save a lot of money, raise the standard of living of the population.

[Alex_59]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

It is necessary to accelerate urbanization and make a state program for this. This will save a lot of money, raise the standard of living of the population.

True, but again - this is secondary. This is a consequence. What’s primary? Primarily - for what purpose do we need this urbanization. No one needs urbanization for the sake of urbanization. And we need a technological breakthrough. Those. a situation should be created when it suddenly becomes profitable to develop and manufacture an iPhone not with the USA and China, but with us. And now this situation will create the conditions for additional urbanization - for all this we need the brains and hands that are in the countryside (youth!) But the trouble is that our Sobyanin does not need his iPhone. They need to create visibility for the rating (skolkovo), but in essence they can still carry everything from China - it's cheaper. Of course cheaper - it’s such an invisible hand of the market. Only the Chinese do not have an invisible hand, they do it cheaply and efficiently not because of an invisible hand, but because they so consciously decided to do it. For example, give your business loans at 0%. Of course they are cheaper when the Russians have the same loans at 15-20%. Well, etc. In general, the urbanization program should be closely linked to the intentions to begin to do something high-tech. Then that makes sense.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Alex_59

No one needs urbanization for the sake of urbanization.

Naturally. It should free up funds that can be used to solve the problems of the state. It should increase the standard of living of the population, concentrate working hands near production, and reduce logistics loads.

Quote: Alex_59

Those. a situation should be created when it suddenly becomes profitable to develop and manufacture an iPhone not with the USA and China, but with us. And now this situation will create the conditions for additional urbanization

And these conditions are already there. And urbanization should just give the opportunity to move our industry at least slightly.

Quote: Alex_59

In general, the urbanization program should be closely linked to the intentions to begin to do something high-tech. Then that makes sense.

This and so today makes sense. You just take an interest in statistics. How many people live in rural areas and how many work in the agricultural sector. There is a very big difference. And small cities are largely unpromising, the growth of labor productivity in industrial production leads to the fact that they also become unprofitable. If you previously needed a bunch of milling machines, now the CNC machine replaces them all. And now one factory makes more products than the old three.

[Alex_59]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

And these conditions are already there.

If these conditions existed, we would have at least in the form of startups our own projects of this kind. There would be attempts. The business would try to make money on it. But I see the lines behind iPhones and the counters littered with Samsung and Xiaomi. And there are no conditions for our own development and production - nifiga.

[E_V_N]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

And small cities are largely unpromising, the growth of labor productivity in industrial production leads to the fact that they also become unprofitable. If you previously needed a bunch of milling machines, now the CNC machine replaces them all. And now one factory makes more products than the old three.

Understand urbanization is not a cause, but a consequence. Build a city for 20 million people, but if there are no jobs there, no one will ever go there. In order for people to flock to one place (urbanize), you must first build a large, highly profitable production, with good working conditions and high salaries.
Regarding the "small cities" you contradict yourself. In small towns, all industries are closed, so they are "unpromising." You’re talking about high logistics costs, well, let’s bring all 140 million of the population to “greater Moscow”, and abandon the rest of the territory or give it to the Chinese, so what? It’s just that all production has been withdrawn from Moscow, there are offices and “institutes” left, where did you decide to produce iPhones?

[E_V_N]

Quote: Alex_59

And we need a technological breakthrough. Those. a situation should be created when it suddenly becomes profitable to develop and manufacture an iPhone not with the USA and China, but with us. And now this situation will create the conditions for additional urbanization - for all this you need the brains and hands that are in the countryside (youth!) ..... but in fact you can still carry everything from China - it's cheaper. Of course cheaper - it’s such an invisible hand of the market. Only the Chinese do not have an invisible hand, they do it cheaply and efficiently not because of an invisible hand, but because they so consciously decided to do it. For example, give your business loans at 0%. Of course they are cheaper when the Russians have the same loans at 15-20%. .... closely linked to intentions to start doing something of their own high-tech.

Suddenly nothing happens, and there will never be a situation when suddenly your iPhone becomes profitable. You probably don’t remember the 90s when “electronics from China” was sold per kilogram, turned on right on the market, it doesn’t work, they threw it into the basket and took another thing, you open the case, and there it is so crookedly soldered, everything is in snot. 15 years of focused work were spent on “pulling” production to China and raising the technological level. In principle, China does not supply any minerals abroad, only products. And we have? You correctly said that absolutely no one needs production of high-tech products. 20 years talking about their own operating system, so where is it? but in China there. Have you heard about the story of the Russian processor "Everest"? No one needs their own processor.
But about loans, I do not agree with you. our business does not need money at all. Otherwise, we would have a normal stock market, enterprises would pay dividends and the population would hold money not in banks, but in shares. Shares to the company are much more profitable than any loans.

[Victor N]

It is worth understanding the meaning of urbanization. The concentration of the population was necessary to ensure large-scale production of labor. It was worth a lot.
In the province, everyone built housing for himself, at his own expense, he also provided accommodation (heating, water). No gas pipelines, heating mains, water pipelines, elevators, sewers! Urban infrastructure is very expensive, and now pretty running, urgent restoration is required to avoid large-scale technological disasters. Not up to new urbanization projects.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Victor N

everyone built housing in the provinces for himself, at his own expense, he also provided accommodation (heating, water). No gas pipelines, heating mains, water pipelines, elevators, sewers!

If you like living like this, live, your right. But others don’t like living like that.

Quote: Victor N

Urban infrastructure is very expensive, and now pretty running, urgent restoration is required to avoid large-scale technological disasters. Not up to new urbanization projects.

Why's that? Where did the firewood come from?

[voffchik7691]

"And in Moscow the majority of people plow like a damned one."
At the same time, people who are not in Moscow receiving 5-6 times more than for the same work. I wish I had such a curse! They themselves admit on TV that they spend all day in classmates and in contact! Come to our hinterland, but we don’t have to plow like that, you will have a rest! We only have 12 hours a day for 20 000 per month!

[Alex_59]

Quote: voffchik7691

At the same time, people who are not in Moscow receiving 5-6 times more than for the same work. I wish I had such a curse! They themselves admit on TV that they spend all day in classmates and in contact! Come to our hinterland, but we don’t have to plow like that, you will have a rest! We only have 12 hours a day for 20 000 per month!

I live in the outback, plow in Moscow, and do not earn anything yet. It’s my choice, I don’t smear the snot on my face, that someone somewhere is living better than me or the conditions have not provided me.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Alex_59

and do not earn anything yet

It is strange that this situation suits you and you are almost proud to talk about it. It is also strange that you did not die of hunger without earning anything.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Greenwood

It is strange that this situation suits you and you are almost proud to talk about it. It is also strange that you did not die of hunger without earning anything.

I don’t earn anything at the moment, I just spend it. An attempt to promote a new business))) I have something to eat.

[Cossack 471]

ALEX Somehow strange you talk! Do not smear the nozzles that you are not provided with the working conditions. and by the way, an official sitting on a big salary is simply obliged to think about that. what will the population do. what roads will drive. where to be treated. it is his holy duty as a civil servant. And if the enemy attacks here, the state will remember you

[E_V_N]

Quote: Alex_59

And in agriculture, too - what a crowd of collective farmers used to do now is making a combine harvester from an air-conditioned cabin with the help of a joystick. And what will those people now do that used to feed a crowd of collective farmers, sheared, clothed, clothed, transported? So Sobyanin is right in this sense. And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.

You and Sobyanin, you must understand, are notable combine harvesters and who else but you should understand agricultural technologies. Who, if not you, should know how many people are needed in rural areas and small towns. And of course, in Moscow they plow like damned, producing thousands of tons of waste paper on the mountain and sitting round the clock at all kinds of "economic" forums, symposia, commissions, fronts, councils, making senseless shudders of air.

[Dr_engie]

And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.

Well, yes, all over the country, some lazy people are working, some Muscovites are laborers, poor people, they are shifting papers from place to place.

[tasha]

there are conditionally "extra" 15 million people .... these are either officials or social workers, but fewer and fewer people who can find high-performance and high-quality labor

I completely agree. You look around, at your friends, acquaintances .. Many of them really produce something?
Offhand from my classmates living in the village I know about: 5 officials of all sorts of small, 3 police officers, one works in veterinary surveillance, one serves a TV tower, one in DRSU. The rest of the cities fled .. But nobody plows the land ....

[your1970]

Quote: tasha

Offhand from my classmates living in the village I know about: 5 officials of all sorts of small, 3 police officers, one works in veterinary surveillance, one serves a TV tower, one in DRSU. The rest of the cities fled .. But nobody plows the land ....

- Do you need someone from these?
The rest fled - and this is precisely what Sobyanin says - because there is no highly paid job.
And in agriculture, regardless of combines with joysticks, you have to plow. And it’s not a fact that this will bring money, and even the harvest is not always beneficial — five years of poor harvest when the grain was 10 per ton brought to our farmers the same amount (or even more) - how much 000 years of harvest at 2 rubles per ton

[Dr_engie]

Well, as if out of 30 classmates, 5 became officials and 3 police officers, then clearly someone is not needed in their position. For busting, do not you think?
Especially considering the fact that they are fed, in fact, by the working people.

[your1970]

Quote: Dr_Engie

Well, as if out of 30 classmates, 5 became officials and 3 police officers, then clearly someone is not needed in their position. For busting, do not you think?
Especially considering the fact that they are fed, in fact, by the working people.

- there were land committees under administrations. Extra officials liquidated .. 25 years have passed .. individual lop-eared citizens remembered that they / relatives have shares of agricultural / land - BUT the lands are not registered .. they start to run in circles, usually such eagles in documents jambs (wrong letters / addresses / patronymic / names / surnames) ... resort to us - FIX !!no arguments — that the nature of the body — which issued the certificates — cannot be corrected by anyone, that even if someone corrects it, it will not have legal force, therefore they need to go to court and prove in court that it is them, they don’t act on them ... Therefore, we don’t even respond to factual checks of such complaints ..
And there are already a lot of such officials, reduced throughout the country
Registration chambers with us, for example, from 38 districts in the region - remained in 14.Optimized..type everything in the area will be logged ...
Only here registrars - for some reason there was no way to go to the region for a salary of 16.

[parusnik]

Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?

... it's like. fewer people, more oxygen ... Caring for the people. We have a social state. The union of labor and capital. The extra "cattle" is not needed, in a slaughterhouse, in sausage ....

[avt]

Quote: parusnik

... it's like. fewer people, more oxygen ...

This is he, an apparatchik to the marrow of his bones and not bad by the way, trying to somehow start to slander something before the elections in Moscow. I do not justify and do not try to look for some nervous subtext, I simply state the fact - he is no PUBLIC politician, when he is silent, it turns out better - more weighty. And this is how PiaRasti will be able to train and correct the situation for the elections ..... I doubt that they can.

[parusnik]

He seems to have spoken ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: avt

This is he, an apparatchik to the marrow of his bones and not bad by the way, trying to somehow start to slander something before the elections in Moscow. I do not justify and do not try to look for some nervous subtext, I simply state the fact - he is no PUBLIC politician, when he is silent, it turns out better - more weighty. And this is how PiaRasti will be able to train and correct the situation for the elections ..... I doubt that they can.

As for the boasting of Muscovites, he put it upset. As for the 15 million, I agree with him. And in general, I believe that a normal state urbanization program should be adopted, but our liberals are waiting for the hand of the market to ruin everything.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

IS-80_RVGK2 As for the boasting of Muscovites, he put it upset.

What exactly? What is the subject of the Russian Federation that brings more money to the treasury of the Russian Federation (without having any reserves of oil, gas, gold, etc.) .....

[Dr_engie]

And let's better calculate how much Moscow produces real products, not pieces of paper. It collects cars, smelts steel, and at least how many radios it collects.
In my city, people at the shipyards receive less, at the diesel locomotive repair plant the same as office workers and sellers in Moscow - is this normal at all?
And I would see how you would talk face-to-face with a person who works in a gas condensate field, or gas processing plant, is poisoned every day with all sorts of rubbish, and then sees how the money goes wherever from the enterprise? To Moscow! And it turns out that it was not these hard workers who earned it, but effective managers at the main office in Moscow.
Just go to any locksmith, mechanic, worker in the provinces and say that a manager in Moscow is more necessary for the country than he is. You think so there.
All in all, Carthago delenda est.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Dr_engie In my city, people in shipyards receive less

with a person who works in a gas condensate field, or a gas processing plant, is poisoned every day with all sorts of rubbish

MEAN LIKES THIS IT AND THE GOVERNOR THEM ALSO ....

and then he sees how money all goes where from the enterprise? To Moscow!

FIRST IN THE STATE BUDGET OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, and much less than Moscow deducts ... if you think that feed the damned Muscovites separate from the Russian Federation and live happily ...

[E_V_N]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

.VO FIRST IN THE STATE BUDGET OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, and much less than Moscow deducts ... if you think that feed the damned Muscovites separate from the Russian Federation and live happily ...

It was precisely at first to the “head office in Moscow”, and only then this “head office” expelled to Moscow, and already that one to the budget.
And maybe, with such your reasoning, for the Russian Federation it is cheaper to separate Moscow from the Russian Federation together with you and the Sobyanins and other effective ones? And we feed not Muscovites, but Muscovites. Do you catch the difference?

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

MEAN LIKES THIS IT AND THE GOVERNOR THEM ALSO ....

Nowhere else to work, especially in small towns. And governors are appointed from Moscow. This is not an elected position.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

if you think that feed the damned Muscovites separate from the Russian Federation and live happily ever after ...

If all of Russia is separated, poor Moscow will be bent. What a pity. It turns out that 90% of Muscovites, except for sitting out the fifth point in the office, do not know how to draw more.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Greenwood
Nowhere else to work, especially in small towns. And governors are appointed from Moscow. This is not an elected position.

I have a wife from the Penza region, so don’t tell me about small towns, comrade (deceased) Bochkarev and jobs I don’t hear it from you, who wants to work in Moscow or Penza it all depends on requests and aspirations and governors always assigned ....
if you can’t achieve anything from your local and federal authorities, what have I to do with it?

If all of Russia is separated, poor Moscow will be bent.

let's separate, I think you will gather a few who want to, Kazan and Tyumen, you definitely did not rest, it is easier for them to unite with us in the Confederation ....

It turns out that 90% of Muscovites, except for sitting out the fifth point in the office, do not know how to draw more.

At Scoop and at construction sites, they worked as janitors (you weren’t there yet), and the research institutes and the police were local, not from the nearest regions ....
But then what’s the matter then, while all the other republics of the Union and their capitals lived either as well as Moscow or better (provided that the RSFSR made a greater contribution to the budget of the USSR), but a miracle happened everyone separated from the RSFSR and it flourished, so with what did you take that My Moscow would live worse with the constituent entities of the Russian Federation (not necessarily with all donor regions) than now?

[E_V_N]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

but a miracle happened, everyone separated from the RSFSR and it flourished, so where did you get the idea that My Moscow will live with its constituent entities of the Russian Federation (not necessarily with all donor regions) worse than now?

Janitors and construction workers worked those whom the "Muscovites" contemptuously called the "limit". But the “limit” was allowed into Moscow not because there weren’t enough workers in Moscow, but because in the second generation, the newly made Muscovite considered doing something with his hands below his dignity.
And why did you decide that Kazan and Tyumen would like to live with you in the Confederation and continue to feed you? You then with what reason they "rested"

[Golovan Jack]

labor productivity of an average Muscovite is 2,5 times higher than the national average and 5-7 times higher than in rural areas

And this is so ... because the "average" has something to work on ... but "in the countryside" this is not yet ...

Author: Volodin Alexey

The alarmist ... we make money on bread, the author?

[Boris55]

Quote: Golovan Jack

And this is so ... because ...

Almost all of the country's barges are in Moscow. With their "performance" hardly anyone can compete.

[komvap]

only scribbling guards of the comprador regime earn money on bread.

[Volodin]

Quote: Golovan Jack

The alarmist ... we make money on bread, the author?

And you are here, apparently, from those who "have 5-7 performance times more." Not by bread alone, Mr. good ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Volodin

And you are here, apparently, from those who "have 5-7 performance times more." Not by bread alone, Mr. good ...

Urbanization is a natural process with an increase in labor productivity. Another thing is that letting it drift a little is not good.

[23rus]

Sobyanin is a man-urban. The swift bourgeois counter-revolution is swallowing up the relations created by the soviets, and this, alas, is correct at the present stage. But state policy is social, which is a "struggle and unity of opposites"

[Eurodav]

Change it, make it the mayor of any provincial city of Russia - and this bombast, reminiscent of EBN eyes, will burst the same hour!

[Stirbjorn]

so they put him from Tyumen to steer Moscow

[E_V_N]

So he didn’t miss the stars from the sky in Tyumen, although he looked richer in oil than other regions, from where minerals did not swing abroad.

Quote: Stirbjorn

so they put him from Tyumen to steer Moscow

[Cadet]

he even transformed Tyumen, made a city out of a village, roads even became good.

[Good Zsul]

Here I read your comments and I think you read what you wrote to us, namely:
We have in rural areas conditionally "extra" 15 million people who, by and large, are not needed for agricultural production, taking into account new productivity technologies, they are either officials or social workers, but fewer and fewer people who can find high-productivity and high-quality labor for themselves. The situation is similar in small provincial cities. There are really fewer good jobs and quality jobs.
Or just to write?

[Stirbjorn]

Well, if we remove social workers from the countryside — doctors, teachers, postmen, police, etc., then the local population will either die out, or will roll back in the last century, or move to megacities. "Judge Dred" is an example of such a society

[Good Zsul]

Stirbjorn - I personally understood that for one employee, a cloud of superiors and inspectors !!!
When for the first time the villagers were provided with passports and they could live in cities, what happened then? I, Sobyanin, I’m not blocking, I don’t live in Russia and I don’t know what he is .... I write that I read from my own angle the vision of what was written ....

[Stirbjorn]

Well, let’s say, as I understand it, there are two options, either to relocate the majority to megacities, reducing the cost of maintaining infrastructure and local population, for which Sobyanin advocates. The second option is to develop territories, conduct communications, create jobs, which naturally requires long-term investments from the state. Again, large families, this is just in the countryside. That is, in the long term, in my opinion, the second option is correct if our authorities are focused on the development of the country, and not so that "our age is enough." Therefore, to the words of Sobyanin, I relate to the words of a temporary worker

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Stirbjorn

The second option is to develop territories, conduct communications, create jobs

Which places? Under which market? But the growth of labor productivity is not over and goes further. Plus demography, we have a full guard. Urbanization, on the contrary, could help; the money saved on infrastructure could be used to solve the problem of demography. The second option for the country in its current form is a disaster.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Which places? Under which market?

Moscow is attractive, as a transport hub - to build other transport hubs, that is, roads, roads and airports. Here you have the jobs. There is a market for food, always subsidizing agriculture

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

Plus demography, we have a full guard. Urbanization, on the contrary, could help; the money saved on infrastructure could be used to solve the problem of demography.

The first time I hear urbanization help with demographics. How do you generally expect money to solve the problem of demography - to set up some incubation centers ?!

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

The second option for the country in its current form is a disaster.

The current liberal economic course of the government leads to disaster

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Stirbjorn

Moscow is attractive, as a transport hub - to build other transport hubs, that is, roads, roads and airports.

Why build them, transport hubs? There are so many of them. Roads, airports are also being built. Build for construction?

Quote: Stirbjorn

The first time I hear urbanization help with demographics.

It alone will not help. We need a serious state program.

Quote: Stirbjorn

The current liberal economic course of the government leads to disaster

And when is a disaster planned? Zyuganov has been talking about it every time before the elections for more than 20 years, but nothing. Maybe you need to be more careful with forecasts and somehow more reasonably?

[Antianglosax]

The country knows that The main obstacle to the economy is the collaborationist government, the corrupt State Duma and greedy officials. I am sure that only the above groups, which, in fact, represent the 5th column, will disagree with this thesis, and 90% of the population of Russia are convinced of this with numerous examples. In Russia, the debilitation of the population is only gaining momentum, and according to this there are still people who can use the brain, so the authorities have to turn around like a crook in a frying pan to feed the electorate another lying garbage dump. And the people are no longer being fooled by their lying tales ...

[23rus]

Menshikov Petru1: and with whom will you work, min hertz?

[andrej-shironov]

It is strange that you did not name the Guarantor.

[Strashila]

The term labor productivity, for me, remains a mystery for decades ... that it is simply a mystery. it's just that the same work done in different parts of our vast country is paid differently ... in Moscow, 2,5 times more expensive ... that's all. Extra hands ... there are none as such ... there is overpopulation ... well, they are not busy in agriculture and that’s why they go to work, this is life. Create similar living conditions for citizens beyond the Urals and they simply won’t go to Belokamennaya. Many officials ... so this is a question for the authorities, why they are being bred ... only they know.

[Cananecat]

Chernomyrdin v.2.0 ... it would be ridiculous if it weren’t so sad ... Luzhkov’s idea of ​​the Moscow capital of managers and service staff continues to be successfully implemented. It would be better to tell how and who he considered performance. Could it be that at those enterprises where visiting hard workers plow on a shift for 12 hours with one day off?

[Loess]

Sobyanin, you're wrong.

[ibirus]

Well what can I say - enchanting and magnificent. I have no words. A curtain.

[Grandfather]

power that does not need its own people ...

[Cat Marquis]

Well, Kudrin is still not on the “camera” tells. Moreover, what he says must be carefully analyzed, because this cunning beast says "one" meaning "completely different." Well. for example, just recently he was talking on TV about the “shameful salaries of Russians” (although it’s his idea to set a “low bar” of payments, supposedly to increase competitiveness) and said that he knows how to increase the salary of one third of the population. However, he did not say how. Why not say? Yes, because he wants to abolish the Labor Code in general, such as how much work and for what money the employer and wage worker must agree. Vacation is not necessary. Hospital-if you agree on payment in advance, do not agree, "at your own expense," etc., etc. Well, "cherry on the cake" - the retirement age must increase, at least 5 years. But here, the state will pay everyone the same, regardless of the "length of service" - all that is more is a "corporate pension", moreover, it will have to be agreed upon when concluding the labor contract.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Cat Marquis

Well, Kudrin is still not on the “camera” tells.

It would be better if the words "tells the camera" meant "tells the cellmates."

[QWERTY]

In fact, Sobyanin is right in something. There are places with a shortage of labor; there are vice versa with a shortage. But our people are difficult to rise. That’s what the residents of the USA are great for - they’re mobile. And for each of us, we need to build a plant near the house, so that in its specialty, so that the salary is a million.
I myself constantly reel on business trips, good in this is not enough. But I’m not whining, “but build me a railroad near the house, give me an apartment for free, and a salary of 100500 thousand, and I will work 5 days for 8 hours there.”
The main stereotypes of employees:
- if you work "not at home" - you have to pay a lot, no matter what you did.
- if God forbid somewhere in Karelia or the Murmansk region, they must pay at least 70 thousand for 20 working days, no matter what you did.
- the employer is obliged not only to provide housing, but also to pay for the phone, the Internet .... a dishwashing detergent and everything else that comes to mind. The employee is obliged to litter the apartment with a decent repair, justifying that there is no time for cleaning. The time "after 17.00" is not considered time.
- All the money in the organization is “common” money, it doesn’t matter that the office is private, the owner is one, no one except the owner of the money invests anywhere a penny. Therefore, everyone is always underpaid.
- There is no correlation between the work performed and the remuneration.
- If you work on a shift, it’s not necessary to work out all the scheduled days (for example, 40 in 20 — you need to work out 40, have a rest of 20), but it’s necessary to rest on all the laid days.
- An employee cannot have his own tool in principle. The employer must provide it, and the employee must either lose it or take it home.
- The employee is not able to travel several stops by public transport to the place of work, especially at his own expense. No explanation that the inhabitants of this city also travel by transport is not accepted.
- And such troubles in people - a lot. And this applies to persons of Slavic nationality. Bring somewhere comrades from Central Asia - almost all of the above questions disappear. Apparently, that's why there are so many of them.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: ytsuken

And this applies to persons of Slavic nationality

Anyone really, really ...
About the "tool" - really amused, plus !!!
The Soviet Union spoiled the guys ... in vain he did it, and he will hiccup for a long time.

[Pax tecum]

Do you even think what to write? Trying to laugh at people, Soviet citizens, who created and restored the country, gave their whole lives to work for the prosperity of their State, in which they believed as God, they died for him without a doubt. In which there were no today's issues as in this article, and in the country's economy there were no extra people .., everything was distributed, and planned for many years to come.
And, their country was destroyed, torn apart, humiliated ...
And, the backlog created then and still cannot be realized by the current "pseudo-elitists", they cannot even "privatize" to the end. That's because the Power was!
Why can’t the “jackal liberals" be able to lime?

[Greenwood]

Do not argue with him, you still won’t get an adequate answer. Screaming in the comments is the only thing he can do.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Golovan Jack

About the "tool" - really amused, plus !!!

And how many kilos of the instrument do you need to carry with you? So we add up to the fact that the employer will ask the turner: "And where is your machine?"

[Alex_59]

Quote: ytsuken

- if God forbid somewhere in Karelia or the Murmansk region, they must pay at least 70 thousand for 20 working days, no matter what you did.

Well, this is not a mistake of workers, but just one of the mechanisms of market self-regulation. If I can find a job for 40 in Krasnodar, and in Murmansk also 40, then what for did your Murmansk rested? But if in Krasnodar 30, and in Murmansk 70 ... well, I already begin to doubt that my choice is only Krasnodar, there is already something to think about. Therefore, in the north they pay more to attract people. This is logical.

[QWERTY]

If you can find work at home for reasonable money, then why go there somewhere? Moreover, when applying for a job, all my employees are voiced the minimum amount of wages, regardless of the place of work. The maximum - depending on the amount of implementation. Today in the estimates there is even no mention of the Arctic and similar nonsense. Winter rise in price of work - 5%, and then if the customer misses, and he is greedy)))). Now even advance payments are almost nowhere to be found. And the equipment is prepaid.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: ytsuken

That’s what the residents of the USA are great for - they are mobile.

and in what is it expressed, preferably with examples? What is indisputable is the well-developed road network throughout the country - mobility, clearly contributes, but as I understand it, the state provided this, and not a private initiative of US citizens

[Alex_59]

Quote: Stirbjorn

and in what is it expressed, preferably with examples?

Here the type of mentality is implied. A typical American does not care where to live and work. Today here, tomorrow there. They have no attachment to a certain territory. This is facilitated by historical heredity - all the same, the descendants of the most frostbitten immigrants. Well, apparently some conditions were also created in the domestic plan, but here it is necessary to ask the Americans themselves. I think they don’t have a residence permit or a registration to a polyclinic, they don’t need to register with the military registration and enlistment office, it’s most likely easier and faster to buy and sell housing. Most likely they are not tied to any particular furniture or clothes that our person really wants to drag with him to a new place of residence. It is unlikely that employers themselves look crookedly when registering for employment. Well, etc.

[Greenwood]

It is quite normal for them to move from New York to a thread in a small town, even in some remote state, if they find a good high-paying job. Moreover, the offices and headquarters of many world-famous companies are not located in the same city, but are scattered throughout the country (and not how we are being dragged to Moscow). The level of infrastructure is everywhere at a high level, in the province it is sometimes even cleaner, more comfortable and safer than in the dirty overpopulated New York.

[Cossack 471]

The whole world is different from us. that live in a warm climate. Easy to move, only shorts, a shirt and sandals are needed. Compare the actions of people after the flood in our country and, for example, in Europe. We have to do everything urgently. because winter will come and everything will freeze. in France, cots were installed and controlled. time to "cold" the car and the distance can not be compared. They have a day if you go means traveled all over Europe. and with us, it’s you only from Rostov to Saratov that got you here both productivity and everything else

[your1970]

Quote: Cossack 471

They have a day if you go means traveled all over Europe. and with us it’s you only from Rostov to Saratov

- when the TS was created, one of the proposals was to reduce the period of customs transit (by car) to 7 days. We thought better of it on time, otherwise when traveling inland, 3/4 cars would have flown under administrative affairs. Left 20 days

[asp373]

Here it must be added that the employee considers himself a mega-specialist in everything, not really understanding anything.
All this is called redneck and scoop. It is treated with therapeutic fasting, but even this does not always help. Repression and fines also help. Many employers in the provinces are embarrassed, but in Moscow this is a complete order.

[Sergej1972]

But how legal are these fines?

[asp373]

If desired, the employer can legally issue any fine if it is less than 1 / 2 of the monthly salary, and if it is more, then the employee will quit.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: asp373

If desired, the employer can legally issue any fine if it is less than 1 / 2 of the monthly salary, and if it is more, then the employee will quit.

Show the Labor Law, where the employer has the right to fine his employee ....?

[Sergej1972]

Boca should be thoroughly wrinkled by such "employers." There is no such provision in the Labor Code. In any case, the fine must be justified, and a decision on it must be officially drawn up in writing.

[asp373]

Dadadad can’t work on the TC as well as trade on the Labor Code, but everyone is somehow twisted.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Sergej1972

There is no such provision in the Labor Code.

However, the employee can be deprived. We make the employee the official minimum wage, say 10 p., Place bets on 0,5 - we get 5 p. to the employee and prescribe this in his fixed-term (so that it was always possible to merge) employment contract, and so that he does not yell, we pay the rest of the promised promises in an “envelope”, we can deprive the bonus according to the Regulation on Bonuses, kill two birds with one stone and reduce the tax burden and a worker in hedgehog gloves .....

In any case, the fine must be justified, and a decision on it must be officially drawn up in writing.

And this can only be done by an administrative state body, which the Employer is not ...
An exhaustive list of disciplinary liability to which the Employer may bring his Employee specified in the Labor Code of the Russian Federation ....

[andrej-shironov]

Ahrenet list! Can employees still pay the employer?

[VVK_VDB]

Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.
_________________________________________________
______
I also have a peer review. And if Moscow is left without a burden-province. How long will it turn into an urban-type settlement? Year? One and a half?

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: VVK_VDB

Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.
_________________________________________________
______
I also have a peer review. And if Moscow is left without a burden-province. How long will it turn into an urban-type settlement? Year? One and a half?

Well, actually, when the Russian state came out of Muscovy, and not vice versa ...

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

when the Russian state came out of Muscovy, and not vice versa ...

Russian statehood, if anything, was born in Veliky Novgorod, which was originally the center of Novgorod Rus. Then there was the glorious city of Kiev. And in the era of the Russian Empire, the capital was St. Petersburg. So there is no need here to tell tales about the great role of Moscow.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Greenwood

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

when the Russian state came out of Muscovy, and not vice versa ...

Russian statehood, if anything, was born in Veliky Novgorod, which was originally the center of Novgorod Rus. Then there was the glorious city of Kiev.

This is not a fairy tale, read Karamzin, I’ve heard about Novgorod Russia for the first time, I don’t argue the princedom, if you read history, you know whose Kiev was after the Mongol invasion, at the same time you know when it became Russian again ...
If you dispute the fact that the Moscow principality (Muscovy) began to unite the Russian lands including by force into a single state, then you go back to school .....

And in the era of the Russian Empire, the capital was St. Petersburg. So there is no need here to tell tales about the great role of Moscow.

Before the Russian state became an Empire, apparently there was no history?
I do not pretend to any special role of Moscow (it is in fact), however, you will go to Moscow to earn money now and when it ceases to be (rather soon) be ... the capital

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

I’ve heard about Novgorod Russia for the first time, I don’t argue the princedom, if you read the story, you will find out whose Kiev was after the Mongol-Tatar invasion, at the same time you will know when it became Russian again ....

Novgorod lands are considered the center of formation of the Old Russian state. It was here that the prince called Rurik began his reign. And later, the capital "moved" to Kiev.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

The Principality of Moscow (Muscovy) began to unite the Russian lands including by force into a single state

Russia at different times grew with new lands. The unification of lands and accession to the Moscow principality took place already under Ivan III Kalita and continued later. The term "Russian state" as the official name of Russia arose in general under Ivan IV the Terrible.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Before the Russian state became an Empire, apparently there was no history?

The story was, but began almost 300 years before the founding of Moscow.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

however you will go to work in Moscow and now

Who is this "you"? And you?

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

when it ceases to be (rather soon) be ... the capital

And when all large companies are removed from it and stop pumping gigantic amounts of money through Moscow, Moscow will immediately cease to be so tempting. It turns out that people in it work no better than for example in Vladivostok.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Greenwood And when all the large companies are removed from it and stop pumping gigantic amounts of money through Moscow, Moscow will immediately cease to be so tempting. It turns out that people in it work no better than for example in Vladivostok.

Clean up. And do not forget to remove the representative offices of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, we will find tenants do not worry ...

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

find tenants do not worry ...

Has Moscow City already leased all the premises? Or is it half empty?

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Greenwood

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

find tenants do not worry ...

Has Moscow City already leased all the premises? Or is it half empty?

This is a private project, and not a state one, and was implemented before the crisis ... the sanctions will be removed and all will be leased, and the representative offices of the Russian Federation are not in southern butov, and almost all are in the center of Moscow ...

[VVK_VDB]

Well, sanctions will be lifted when Russia is dismembered. We can’t wait for this, and therefore Moscow should go about the business and not comprador.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: VVK_VDB

Well, sanctions will be lifted when Russia is dismembered. We can’t wait for this, and therefore Moscow should go about the business and not comprador.

She, together with her inhabitants, will somehow figure it out without you .... what to do ...

[tank66]

A well-fed hungry man doesn’t mean. Cheubaisen sang there: they will not fit into the market, they will die out, new people will be born. Soon they will begin to refer to the positive experience of Dutch euthanasia. Overtones are successful.

[Glory1974]

A few years ago, a agglomeration development program was adopted. In Russia, there were about 20 tees. And everything goes according to this program. Distant villages are closed, with hospitals, schools, etc. And in the agglomeration attract. Accordingly, Moscow is ahead. Therefore, the area has been increased (New Moscow), money has been invested in transport, housing, etc.
This program is not advertised, but not hidden. In our country there are 12 cities of one million people, in almost all the issue of joining the regional territories to the city is being considered.
Thus, reading between the lines, we can understand that Sobyanin knows the specific numbers of this program. Namely, 15 of millions of residents who will eventually be resettled in the agglomeration.

[cro23cus02]

JUSTICE website. NO: http://pravosudija.net/article/takie-nuzhnye-lish
nie-lyudi

Sergei Semenovich pleased with the next sociological discovery, counting 15 million extra Russians who have not yet moved to large agglomerations. And even going to save them all immediately, like a sturgeon from the fire ... For budget money, of course.
A sudden surge of philanthropy on the part of the authorities always forces us to look for a reason, and this time too, one does not have to go far for a reason. Renovation is finishing off the already falling market for new housing in Moscow. According to the renovation program, Muscovites will be relocated, the land will be squeezed out, but there are no buyers for new housing, which will be built on the site of demolished Khrushchevs.

Thus, the project "renovation" will not give earnings "round trip". There are no buyers and there will be no investors on the squeezed-out expensive Moscow dwelling, which means there will be no “investors” ... You can break the parks by planting, as a consolation prize, even frost-resistant palm trees for budget money, but this land will not bring extra profit .. .
As you know, extremely dangerous phenomena occur on the real estate market of the Moscow region. There is a sharp drop in solvent demand (according to http://www.irn.ru/articles/39714.html that in 2016 only a quarter of the commissioned housing was sold) and at the same time, prices in rubles practically do not fall.

That is, ruble inflation, a double fall of the ruble, the costs of the richer part rose sharply (because they included imported cars, trips abroad, etc., and this is all the currency), and apartment prices do not change.

So what?

But the fact is that developers are more than fully credited. And they get loans for future housing sold, either explicitly (pledge) or implicitly, but any bank, even in which the chairman-brother of the sister-in-law’s wife, argues something like this:

“This developer is building 5 houses ... 500 apartments of 60 m2 total of 30000 m2, will be sold for a year, at $ 2500 per m2, which means that the potential developer has a capital of 4,5 billion rubles (calculated on the calculator). Well, there’s the cost, rollback, interest, taxes, risks, it’s crossed my mind, you’re 3 billion rubles, you’ll give it in 3 years, don’t forget to thank. "

And the developer thanked, there taxes kickbacks the cost of Tajiks cops environmentalists technical supervision SRO zadolbali built a son a cottage wanted 3 floors were enough for 2 ... But the apartments are not for sale.

What to do?

In a normal capitalist society, bankruptcy. Well, I didn’t take into account the market situation, the political risk came true, Trump got these bankruptcies as lovers ... The house is taken by the bank, and it starts selling quietly, lowering the price. Because the bank is the owner

does not want to be empty ladies, the task of the bank is not to protect the construction site, but to twist the money. Or sells at discounts of 40-50% to a more lively developer, so that he sells, if he can.

In general, the result should have been a substantial and smooth reduction in prices, that is, the Moscow bubble could thus be pushed through an adjustable hole. But no.
RENOVATION!
Let's see from the point of view of the developer and the bank. The bank also does not want bankruptcy - it is no secret that banks themselves do not draw money, they have their own capital and borrowed funds, many times exceeding this capital. And if a bank gambled on real estate transactions, then it also depends on the stability of the market, as a dozen banks depended on the GKO market (who does not understand, look for the 1998 crisis, when 6 rubles / $ turned into 25 rubles / $ for a month) .

So, the banker and the builder go to the Moscow government and sell there a fresh idea:

Moscow is a reputable borrower with a huge budget. Let’s move the suckers from five-story buildings to tuned millions of m2 in industrial zones and New Moscow for budget money, and in the place of five-story buildings, mainly near 3 rings, we will set up new 30-story blocks. There the prices are higher!

Well, the Moscow authorities were so happy at the thought of a large budget development project that they already ran to the President and lawmakers.

But the brain did not have time to think. The fact that if now they will resettle 1,5 million people into existing real estate, and on the site of five-story buildings there will be housing for 4 million people, then who will buy it and at what price?

Over the year, developers in Moscow sold about 1 million m2.

At a rate of about 25 m2 per person, this is only 40 thousand people. That is, solvent demand at the current price is 100 (!) Times less than the volume that is supposed to be pulled into the market. Even if you stretch the process for 10 years, this means a 10-fold excess of supply over demand.

That is, if now whole neighborhoods of rented but not populated housing have appeared in the near Moscow region, then this teaching can also expect a strip conditionally from 3 to 4 rings, where most five-story buildings are blocks ...

And who lives in empty houses? Wind and ghosts, of course, but still homeless people, drug addicts, communes of migrants and other communes ...

And then, when in a couple of years it turns out that 2% of the introduced million m10 has been sold, it will not be possible to come up with a new renovation. And then the developers will fall along the chain, pull the banks along with them, and the Moscow budget will also be affected ...

Of course, they are warmed up by the thought that this will not happen now, but in a couple of years, and the leaders will have time to build their small Spanish houses, but the collapsed Moscow real estate market may not forgive them for this.

As for consumers, the prospect of buying at a price that has fallen, for example, 5 times, seems attractive, but not very - because, perhaps, your nearest neighbors will be a gang of drug addicts in the next 30-story building ...

[Aspid 86]

All right, Sobyanin said, only expressed himself so that you can cling to words. 15 million "extra" because there is no work at all there. All resources are accumulated in large cities. Most of the agriculture that uses manual labor is unprofitable and uncompetitive for the agricultural producer using the latest technology and equipment. So this "superfluous" must go to the cities, joining the army of guest workers and thereby increasing the supply of cheap labor, lowering the costs of the capitalists. And this makes it possible to exploit labor force to the maximum and say in different forums that our productivity is 5-7 times higher than in rural areas.

[Krasnyiy komissar]

Sobyanin said rudely but surely. It makes no sense to invest in dying settlements if they do not bring any returns and bring it in the future. What is the point, for example, of maintaining a mining village if the mine is already exhausted? Why maintain unprofitable production in some single-industry towns if it requires constant subsidies and never even goes to zero? The state cannot and should not subsidize everything, but it is obliged to facilitate the resettlement of people from the depressed regions of the country, creating favorable conditions for migrants.
As for the village, the problem with an excess of population there will be aggravated further. The development of genetic engineering, modern agricultural machinery, new herbicides, insecticides and fertilizers will increase productivity and reduce the need for labor.

[sergo1914]

Sergey Semenovich? Come on!!! And are you here?
PS Login failed chosen. The king will not approve.

[Krasnyiy komissar]

Your suggestions, sir. Want money to go into a hole? The country has hundreds, maybe thousands of dying villages and urban settlements, where there are no economic prospects. In each village you need to maintain a village council, a medical assistant, a school, service the road and power lines (gas, mobile communications and optical fiber are far from everywhere). People are doomed to poverty, to capital prices in a rural store, to a crumbling school with a couple of dozens of students (this is still not bad!) And without access to the Internet, a complete lack of leisure time, and a lack of quick medical assistance due to broken roads. Few arguments I brought? But I do not propose to leave the population of depressive single-industry towns and left to their own devices - on the contrary, I advocate their resettlement in more developed regions, provision of housing for them, retraining for popular specialties at the expense of the state. The process of urbanization cannot be reversed, so people who want to move to the city should be helped as much as possible.

[sergo1914]

I do not understand. Relocate the entire population to high-rise buildings, having built up the suburbs, and throw out or sell the rest of the country? Dying settlements are not the fault of the population, but of the local authorities. You can create enterprises and jobs. There are two problems: 1) incompetent people in power, 2) the state tax system (see paragraph 1).

[Krasnyiy komissar]

Why then immediately to high-rise buildings? It is necessary to build low-rise housing of a cottage type in one or two floors around cities with a population of over one million. Forests in the country at least chew ass, the free area around the city is full, there are so many energy resources that we are looking for where to sell them. The country's main problem is the low population density in some regions, which does not allow raising funds for infrastructure development. There is not enough population in this area - there is no solvent demand, there is no trade, there is no normal transport, there is no need to pull high-speed Internet, there are no cinemas, restaurants and cafes. All this is a pure economy, not the whims of officials, although theft also takes place. There are 15 millionaire cities in Russia, where labor, capital and resources stretch. These cities should become the points of economic growth, forming powerful industrial clusters.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

These cities should become the points of economic growth, forming powerful industrial clusters.

And beyond these clusters, as on Mars, there is no life.

[Cossack 471]

Interesting . But how does America live? On a rotational basis leaves the cities with population of one million people for agricultural work? If the population gets lost in large cities, then we will lose territory. her "someone" will populate. A holy place is never empty .

[Sergej1972]

In America, a significant portion of the population lives in megacities, urban agglomerations. They have megalopolises. Have you heard about Boswash?

[Sergej1972]

I agree with almost all your statements, except for these wooden cottages. They went nafik. This is for everybody.

[your1970]

clusters can be created, only now there is a problem EMPTY territories in the Far East / Siberia / Urals / Volga region (already too) / and a number of other places. What shall we do with it?

[Vadim237]

"You can create businesses and jobs." Only where they will be effective in terms of logistics and proximity to the resource base.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

Why maintain unprofitable production in some single-industry towns if it requires constant subsidies and never even goes to zero? The state cannot and should not subsidize everything, but it is obliged to facilitate the resettlement of people from the depressed regions of the country, creating favorable conditions for migrants.

Let's sell the Far East to the Chinese, Japanese and Americans. It is all the same subsidized, it does not bring profit, the population is small. And so we will put up for sale whoever pays the most, we will sell it to the population, we will resettle the population (well, or so we will leave it), but we will raise the babosiks to the budget.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Krasnyiy komissar The state cannot and should not subsidize everything, but it is obliged to facilitate the resettlement of people from the depressed regions of the country, creating favorable conditions for migrants.

So we have all 10-12 regions donors, the rest 70 are more than depressive, Moscow brings 10% of the money that makes up the budget of the Russian Federation, why the hell should she do something then if nothing changes in the depressed regions, you suggest relocating to Moscow, Well then make the Russian Federation a Confederation and give more rights to donor regions so that they can somehow influence the development of those regions that are lagging behind and make profit from it ....
The easiest way is the enlargement of regions, the dissolution of all national republics and the transformation of the Russian Federation into a unitary state ... and the introduction of external managers in rogue regions that will submit to the regions to donors ....
I think Moscow is no worse than the Government will deal with the development of the regions of the western part of the Russian Federation, if it will profit from this ...
Correctly, Sabyanin told Kudrin that even though taxes from working non-Muscovites go to the budget of Moscow, they spend (most of the income) in their places of residence ....
Accordingly, the local authorities do not need to strain on the employment of the local population and improve their living standards ....

[your1970]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Correctly, Sabyanin told Kudrin that even though taxes from working non-Muscovites go to the budget of Moscow, they spend (most of the income) in their places of residence ....

- give out a secret - where does the money go for rented apartments / utilities / food / transport ??? Correctly - "most of the income at their place of residence"-and in Russian in Moscow..... and home, in the regions, God forbid, if 30-40 percent gets ...

[andrej-shironov]

For a start, normal power would concern itself with the resettlement of such a single-industry town. And then it would ask questions of economic efficiency.

[E_V_N]

“When there are no intelligible criteria for assessing labor productivity and social responsibility (excluding responsibility to a narrow group of people), then you can hang on your ears and noodles that the“ buy-sell ”marketer has“ 5-7 times more productive labor than teacher in a rural school. "
Correct article, well done author. Here is the key phrase, they adopted the criterion of labor productivity that was worn out of the finger, and they justify frank economic robbery.

[16112014nk]

But isn't Sobakin himself an extra man? With his tile sidewalks, on which (tile) does his wife do business?

[Hottabych]

And what difference does it make to you what makes Sobyanin’s wife? What, envious people! Instead of working and earning, they consider someone else’s good.

[Vadim237]

In Russia, and everywhere else, they will always be successful.

[Overlock]

Do you envy Moscow patients? Would you like to go their way? And where did the reduced hospitals go? They were sold (corps). And to whom? Pechatnikov, Malyshev, etc. And at the moment, the remaining hospitals with an overload of 120% do not close. People are put wherever urological - in gynecology, cardiological - in traumatology. Want to take their place? A traumatologist will treat you with angina, and a gynecologist will eliminate your prostatitis. rest assured

[16112014nk]

Quote: Hottabych

What difference does it make to you

How to say? Tenders are organized, as if for objectivity, for the production of paving slabs and in an amazing way, the office of Sobyanin’s wife always wins. The same genius economically as Luzhkov’s wives? But Luzhkov is not the mayor of Moscow, and where is Baturin? And all of her abilities suddenly disappeared somewhere. So the difference is big.

[16112014nk]

[quote = Hottabych] to work and earn
I wanted to add - this is plagiarism. One of our leaders has already "cast in granite" - if you want money, go to business.

[Cossack 471]

If his wife makes money on the tile, then this is corruption.

[Lnglr]

Apparently, most of those who commented on the entire discussion did not even deign to watch.

[Sedoy]

read the original speech, not castrated vyser under the "order" of the author of the article ...

[Volodin]

Oh, right. Again, the vile author pulled words out of context, but there was no "conditionally extra" people in a speech ...

Your commentary, it turns out, under the order nakropali? ..

[Hottabych]

Of course, pulled out. And even from this article, the meaning of the phrase is clear.
And what did not vomit, then you did not finish.

[Volodin]

Quote: Hottabych

then you did not understand.

* did not understand - together (there is no verb "added")

So about this in the article and speech. That we are by definition "misunderstood." 25 million jobs promised, but did not create - we misunderstood it, the police needed to be renamed the police, because there were no other problems - we misunderstood it, the boy who wrote the text about the "innocent dead" Nazis - also we misunderstood, from the land of all to drive megalopolises - again misunderstood. From the same countryman - we are told clever things every time, and we (let it be - I, only one of your humble servant) misunderstand. The officials are right, the people are not the same ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Volodin

25 million jobs promised but not created

This is the point.

Quote: Volodin

police to the police had to be renamed

Not necessary, but sometimes easier to destroy and rebuild.

Quote: Volodin

from the land to drive everyone into megacities - again misunderstood.

Now 7 percent work in agriculture, as far as I remember from all workers, and 27 in the whole population live in the village. With further growth in labor productivity, the percentage of workers will be even less. Don't you think that the difference is a little bit more? Industrial production is the same. So here it is not a conspiracy of liberals, but quite objective reasons.

[Volodin]

Quote: IS-80_RVGK2

So there’s no conspiracy by the liberals, but quite objective reasons.

So about the "conspiracy" and we are not talking. We are talking about elementary respect for people who suddenly turned out to be “superfluous” - only because the village was destroyed for many years (and not at the will of those who live in it).

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Volodin

We are talking about elementary respect for people who suddenly turned out to be "superfluous" - only because the village was destroyed for many years (and by no means at the request of those who live in it).

The fact that the village was being destroyed is understandable. But you have to be objective. The 90s only aggravated the processes that took place long before the 90s. The growth of labor productivity still made these people "superfluous." The same goes for industry. And indeed all areas of activity.

[dauria]

The growth of labor productivity still made these people "superfluous"

Ugh, God. Why didn’t you see the main thing in all its glory? Well, productivity is not growing, but production is simply curtailed - hence the extra people. We sell Chinese junk and eat imported surrogate. And pay off oil and gas. Everything else "production" is, with rare exceptions, the service staff, no more. Here and 15 million people "a lot" in the opinion of the famous Englishwoman.

[Hottabych]

So Sobyanin says about this problem, isn’t it? I do not want to offend you, but the topic is sucked from the finger. Although, apparently, now, articles criticizing the authorities are a bonanza for a journalist. Elections on the nose. )

[Sergej1972]

Already not 27%, smaller. Although we have a mess here. Some villages and large villages in the South are essentially cities. And many small towns and urban settlements are not much different from rural accuracy.

[Hottabych]

Yeah, thanks for the fix. Only now, from your last comment I misunderstood nothing. ) Everything is mixed in a bunch. Although, I caught the thought - you’re not happy with the power ...

[sergo1914]

Bohemia believes that the people are not the same. History does not teach anything to people. 1917? No, have not heard.

[elenagromova]

He himself is superfluous.
What is this strange model of the country that they offer? Several large cities, where people are almost forced to drive? And between them - what? Huge deserted spaces? This makes no sense.
Maybe people even need to pay extra so that they just live in these small villages and villages. It is that there life glimmered, and the huge country at night was not visible from space as a solid black space with separate luminous areas.
And talking about labor productivity is a feeling that they are aimed not at raising it with modernization, but at covering terrible injustice — when people in different localities work the same way, but get much differently.

[QWERTY]

Let's pay from YOUR PERSONAL income to the inhabitants of these villages and towns? Why not? Well, so that "life was warm" and from space the view was decent?
Where are all these guest workers from? And from there, there aren’t so many local people. Moscow, though rubber, but most of those who want to go there have already arrived. And it doesn’t matter what they do there - they sell cowards - does it mean someone is buying them? If they don’t buy, will they stop selling them? The logic is simple as a lowing - someone needs to build some kind of object in each village so that local residents can work there. Does it make sense in this object - nobody cares. And let's produce rubber slippers in Naryan-Mar, and then export them by plane to the rest of the country? It doesn’t matter that they will be gold and no one will buy them - but everything is in the way ....

[elenagromova]

So, let the migrant workers come, let the slippers be imported from China, and their citizens - "superfluous"?

[andrej-shironov]

And let you begin to pay extra to such power from your personal income! Well, she did not parasitize on taxes of the working people.

[Cat Marquis]

Oh, I remember how “someone” was talking (about “talking”) about creating “25 million high-tech jobs” for 5 years ..., or 10 years ...., or 25 years ...., or "somewhere in the" foreseeable future "? .....

[Vadim237]

We will wait for the promised 30 years in Russia.

[elenagromova]

In general, there is such a brilliant invention of mankind, as the Internet. Its potential is not used to its full potential. Namely, he would help, with the right approach, to solve the problem of people’s employment, the problem of traffic congestion, and much more. If a person, sitting at home in a village, would operate a machine tool at the plant, which is located at least 1000 kilometers away, but at the plant itself, only a few people on duty would be needed ...

[QWERTY]

Well yes. This is the eternal dream of a Russian person. Recall the dummies in the movie "Viy"))))) And how does the Internet reach a person over 100500 km? Does a satellite hang over each village? Over the trees through the forest optical cable? Does this person eat on the Internet? What about getting dressed? Oh yes, he needs a 3-D printer ... Isn’t it easier to settle this person where the Internet is already? And closer to the plant, you never know what? Or manages one on the Internet, and repairs the other? Whoever fixes cannot control?

[Cossack 471]

It’s somehow Sobyanin. tells how the junction for 60 billion was built, and I think if the authorities wanted to do something to solve economic problems, then if you have EASY money, for example, buy small cheese dairies and free of charge (as the guarantor said, they still steal money) distribute them in villages in Siberia and Altai and they will fill up the country with cheeses. At the same time, the problem of animal husbandry and employment will be solved immediately. I can give other ideas, but who needs it. Kudrin knows better for us what we need. Although there are certainly big obstacles. for example, the cost of energy and the problem of their connection. the cost of gasoline all sorts of platons and stuff

[Greenwood]

Quote: ytsuken

Isn’t it easier to settle this person where the Internet is already?

Those. laying optics in remote areas is a more expensive task than relocating a person from the habitual place of the devil understand where. Oh well. This is the same way officials argue.

[andrej-shironov]

As far as I remember, the Ukrainian village is shown there. Russians have different tales, although they are not without a certain laziness.

[vanavatny]

Moscow became a parasite city, the other day was there, in a gardener, recalled how the Cherkizon was heroically closed, ending the chaos of the 90s, yeah .. all these power and foul mongers quietly begin to cause rabies, no longer because of the complete discrepancy of the Galimov’s nonsense they brought, I begin to feel discomfort from their one existence, and by the number of pseudo-economic forums we (more precisely, all this bureaucratic cesspool) have long overtaken the USSR with its worthless party meetings, only all this rubbish with receptions costs like launching an astronaut ... creatures

[MOSKVITYANIN]

vanavatny Moscow has become a parasite city

What is the parasite? Muscovites do not work in a gardener, there people from other regions of the Russian Federation are engaged in trade, get a living, and Moscow provides them with land for the market, well, they don’t have another way to earn money at home, so they go to the gardener to work with hucksters, I don’t I don’t have, it would be another matter if orphans worked for free in this gardener and would give all the proceeds to the budget of Moscow ..... then Moscow would be hit ....
None of the huckster from the gardener asks his governor why he has to go to the damned Moscow to earn money, it means that people like it and therefore they work as a gardener and are glad that they have such an opportunity, dreaming about an apartment in Moscow in rare breaks and those who hate it (consisting of 90% of limits like them) ...

only all this rubbish with receptions

You ask, maybe you will be invited to a buffet table ....

[The Siberian barber]

Reading such articles, the soul begins to overwhelm, some hopelessness (
I would like to believe that the “light at the end of the tunnel” is close, but after the rhetoric of people whose views and actions determine the course of the country, you really understand that the authorities have ordinary grabbers who are small and small (

[Krasnyiy komissar]

Most northern cities expect an extremely sad fate when gas and oil deposits run out. Any other economic activity there simply can not stand the competition with more southern cities. While there is production, there is money to maintain the infrastructure, the gas is over - drain the water! In such places, the only adequate working method is shift work, as It does not require the creation of a full-fledged infrastructure: they built a working village from ready-made modules, pumped out a resource from the bowels of the Earth and moved to another field.

[Vadim237]

Long before gas runs out, thermonuclear energy will appear, it will then squeeze gas, oil and coal from the world energy market, I think by the year 2050, such power plants will appear.

[Cadet]

You know that the majority of shift workers in the north are from rural areas, the majority of collective farmers also build a pipe, the townspeople will not go to work for 30-50 rubles a month, live in a trailer and eat dry food. There was such an organization in the city of Tyumen under the name of KSU, they built a new pipe for the oil industry and repaired it, so most of the drivers, locksmiths were former engineers and mechanics from villages, devastated state farms, welders, most of them were from Ukraine, tractor drivers were also mostly rural . They were given an emergency time to weld a pipe, and they plowed with Stakhanov's methods, day and night. You are right that the northern cities have no future and will not, there is probably only housing there, as in the capital

[unignm]

what did they say there? 8 million Russians is enough for pipe maintenance and other works.

[1536]

This is the danger of defending “dissertations” that are not “scientific”. Then the newly made "doctors" get the right to broadcast all sorts of things. Still, cooking shows on TV is better ...
High-speed railways need to be built, interconnected the cities of Russia from the western borders to the Far East, to implement scientific projects on modern energy, transport, space, IT-technologies, to revive the genetic fund of crops, pedigree cattle, to apply advanced technologies in the processing of agricultural products . With drugs and alcoholism to fight. Is that not a priority? But this is specific. And not the mythical "labor productivity." Unemployment, like in the West, was wanted by millions of worthless people living on benefits, who have no prospects, etc., give rest, let them only see them in Russia. And what is remarkable. Well, why didn’t they equip their cities and towns with such “breakthrough” thoughts? Where he was born, it fit in there, according to popular wisdom. All in Moscow, labor productivity is going to increase.

[BAI]

that the average Muscovite’s labor productivity is 2,5 times higher than the national average and 5-7 times higher than in rural areas.

I understand this explanation of the separation of Moscow salaries from Russian?

[Siberian German]

we have in Cheremnovka many people plow from dawn to dawn ... but only to receive as much as in Moscow in a month they will have to plow for 4-5 months

[tracer]

Off topic, but still. I am convinced that there is no alternative to the new socialist state. People want not just to work, but to be needed each in their own place. Do not get me wrong, I do not advocate communism in any way.

[VVK_VDB]

then, how do you understand?

[Siberian German]

I have a question honestly not for all this bastard jacket (Dimona Sobyanina Gref, etc. .......), but for Vova ... I don’t believe what they say on their own behalf ... but the question is - Vova, you can bring people to extremes

[Greenwood]

Quote: Siberian German

Vova, you can bring people to extremes

Vovan was thinking about something like that, too, he urgently put together the Rosguard, put his man at the head and armed him with the latest technology.

[andrej-shironov]

The guarantor is in the know. Hand washes a hand.

[serega61]

Good article, everything is correct.

[Gennady Fyodorov]

It is clear that such gaps with brains on one’s side need to be eliminated so as not to poison the minds of gullible people. But where to get new ones. others. right ?! Education has already been rebuilt so as to prepare the same clones. They have everything going according to plan! But we have no plans. And they won’t let them work out, the secret services carefully monitor this. Soon everyone will have a cop and an FSB officer, the same fool and scoundrel as the mayor. And they will make sure that he thinks right! This is called pluralism, it seems?

[Mikhail Zubkov]

Quote: pin_code

My opinion is that the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members, are over 15 million. And life will become easier, life will be more fun. I was in Moscow in 16, I saw what money was being spent on and I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which nothing is built except for shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...

If it is considered as performance, that under my windows for 500 wet AUTUMN 22, under the windows of a 3-apartment 2-storey building, I changed (as a guest worker from the East, with shovels) asphalt throughout the street, with the transfer of curbs and covered bus stops with imported equipment from Sweden ( not from Belarus!), the really Sobyaninskaya Moscow is impressive. But Moscow Sobyaninsky is listed only in the apparatus of the St. Petersburg President of the Russian Federation - in fact, Muscovites do not feel either Tyumen or St. Petersburg. And in this glavnyuk of Moscow and Russia has yet to be convinced of ALL UPCOMING ELECTIONS. Previous ones have not convinced them yet! All of these Moscow-Kremlin games in "civil forums" only lead to the expansion of the PARASITIC FIELD of the COUNTRY, in which all kinds of Fursens and

[Sergey Cojocari]

If you hate them so much, then why, time after time, elect yourself to be your boss. Why do you focus on Navalny, Sobchak, Zhirinovsky and Zyuganov? Just because they stick out? What really in all of Russia, there is no man worthy of a galley rower and his iPhone? I DO NOT BELIEVE!

[Mikhail Zubkov]

Quote: pin_code
My opinion is that the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members, are over 15 million. And life will become easier, life will be more fun. I was in Moscow in 16, I saw what money was being spent on and I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which nothing is built except for shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...
If it is considered as performance, that under my windows for 500 wet AUTUMN 22, under the windows of a 3-apartment 2-storey building, I changed (as a guest worker from the East, with shovels) asphalt throughout the street, with the transfer of curbs and covered bus stops with imported equipment from Sweden ( not from Belarus!), the really Sobyaninskaya Moscow is impressive. But Moscow Sobyaninsky is listed only in the apparatus of the St. Petersburg President of the Russian Federation - in fact, Muscovites do not feel either Tyumen or St. Petersburg. And in this glavnyuk of Moscow and Russia has yet to be convinced of ALL UPCOMING ELECTIONS. Previous ones have not convinced them yet! All these Moscow-Kremlin games in "civil forums" only lead to the expansion of the PARASITIC FIELD of the COUNTRY, which grows all sorts of Fursen, doggies and "collie boys" from Gazprom estates. By the way - why Gazprom populated Novy Urengoy ukronatsikami and hired to work there, not only the mayor-Ukrainian, but 30000 points. Russophobian Galicians, who have been transported there for many years by air at our Russian expense ?! Why not hire Tyumen neighbors, including Sobyanin? For Novy Urengoy Sobyanin would be quite a joy! But for Moscow - alas, at least three metros built - Big Moscow will not accept it ... Moscow does not believe anyone else!

[SamTarley]

Where does high productivity come from if over a million Russians work as security guards? Police officers per capita more than in the states almost doubled. Therefore, low productivity, once one with a bipod and seven with a spoon.

[seacap]

With all due respect to Moscow, as the capital and symbol of our country, I cannot but express my opinion as a provincial from the outskirts of our country, who faithfully served her and the people her whole life. I remember well the recent times when in Moscow and the regions did not register (and therefore did not transfer) criminals and the military, but "friends" from the Caucasus and Asia all had a welcome residence permit after a week. Moscow is another country, not Russia for sure, rather it is a metropolis, and the rest of the vast territory of the motherland - its colony. Muscovites (I mean bureaucrats and moneybags, who have unlimited resources and, most importantly, connections) rush around the country and where they come as conquistadors - they destroy all living things, after them the scorched earth, which no longer belongs to local Aborigines As an example, Boos, having flown to his destiny to destroy, having destroyed all high-tech production, killed a successful and growing airline, with flights to 50 countries, organized 4 daily flights to Central Asia (then there were 4-5 and only to Pi ter and Moscow), exported whole villages, all of them are now in the markets, and the Ivanovs and Petrovs are sticking at factories and ports. Like vultures his friends and acquaintances flocked, buying up everything and everything on the vine, lifted prices higher than Moscow, bought up the entire Baltic coast and land (even Luzhkov was noted here), adding his loot (or rather ours). As a result, unemployment, and these are highly skilled workers and engineers who worked for defense and rocket science, shipbuilding, prohibitive housing and food prices, the almost complete absence of a fishing fleet (was more than 300 ships), the city disfigured by shopping centers and stalls in the middle of sidewalks, cut down parks and squares, losing its historical identity.
Moscow, like a brush of a vacuum cleaner, which itself overseas, sucking material, scientific and human resources out of the carpet of our Motherland, depopulate entire regions, there are no funds in regions that lose their potential and territories that are successfully populated by our neighbors, we will soon find out with surprise that it’s not our land anymore. In some previously promising areas, there is no sense in building or reviving production, there is no one to work for them there. Such a concentration of everything and everything in 1 city is a direct threat to the existence of the country and the integrity of its territory. the city is being built and expanded not for the people of the titular nation, but for the closest and not so our neighbors who have flown to this generous pie, i.e. in a place where everything is sold and bought, where the loot rules. The question of instant missile strike, which underlies the strategy of our "partners", no longer seems so unrealistic, concentrating everything on one small area of ​​the territory, the whole strike is possible right away paralyze the whole country, deprive it of government, science and industry, as well as funds and the monetary system, as well as the ministry of defense and the ministry of the interior, the whole question of the existence of ancient culture and Slavic civilization was solved with little blood and cost, not a single regional remained and he doesn’t even think about taking defense and defense actions, but collects manat and blows it with servants to the nearest border or to an overseas villa.

[statokaev]

And maybe Mr. Sobyanin is superfluous in Russia? Where did all of the extra people come from in Russia? Let people live on their land, work, raise and raise children, educate true patriots. Restore the peasant villages and Cossack villages and again we sing: "At the table, no one is superfluous!"

[NordUral]

While we are "chewing snot," we will be superfluous.

[Vadim237]

Villages and villages will soon disappear, everywhere there will be urban-type villages and regional centers, in which the population will be concentrated.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Vadim237

Villages and villages will soon disappear, everywhere there will be urban-type villages and regional centers, in which the population will be concentrated.

Move to the village and you will be happy, make, t.s. your contribution .....

[NordUral]

Vote for EP? .. Or maybe turn on the brain, finally?

[rkkasa xnumx]

Blackmokona,

Quote: BlackMokona

Let me explain in more detail

So why did you write this nonsense?
Okay, there’s no point in continuing the conversation; anyway, you won’t be able to answer the question.

[Blackmokona]

I am describing to you the current situation, and what does it have to do with nonsense. And this is the answer to the question you asked about measuring labor productivity.

[Greenwood]

Labor productivity in Moscow is 2,5 times higher than the Russian average, and if we take rural areas, then 5-7 times.

Well, we provincials know how Muscovites work.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Greenwood Well, we provincials know how Muscovites work.

Did you mean not Muscovites, but residents of remote regions working in Moscow and dreaming of breaking out of the hopelessness (apparently caused by the same Muscovites) that exists in their native region and becoming Muscovites?

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

not Muscovites, but residents of remote regions working in Moscow and dreaming of breaking out of hopelessness

So, do these two categories of citizens somehow work differently?

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: Greenwood

So, do these two categories of citizens somehow work differently?

For the most part, yes, during the union it was the same, but you digress, we are discussing Muscovites, and not the limit of pretending to be them....

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

For the most part yes

Oh really?! The Stakhanovites live in Moscow, no different from provincial cattle.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

we are discussing Muscovites, and not the limit impersonating them....

And at what point does the crowded limit become Muscovites? And how to distinguish a Muscovite from a limita?

[Clone]

They're snickering... bureaucratic people forget that legs are designed not only to comfortably fit one's own butt into a leadership chair and onto a gilded toilet, but also to move "on the ground" with the imputed responsibility of communicating with an ordinary person and, by no means, a dummy people Including the fact that it suddenly began to be called “conditional”. Oh, the “leaders” forget about the futility of existence and fly into who knows what “clouds”, giving out to the public magnificent nonsense on the verge of complete idiocy.

Quote: pin_code

in what city is Novokuznetsk, where nothing is being built except shopping centers, no factories, no factories?

Directly copied from Krasnodar. Solid objects of the “buy and sell” sphere. And, apparently, this is a picture that is characteristic not only of the designated cities. But there are tons of fireworks and festivals...

Quote: rkkasa 81

And gas and oil are not produced in Moscow, and metal, and timber, and much more.

Quite a controversial statement. Well, judging by the final stops of cash flows, then all “our” wealth is mined by Muscovites and in Moscow.

[wax]

How many barrels of the city were rolled towards Luzhkov, but they still had to be eliminated due to lack of trust. But according to Sobyanin - silence. In trust.

[Zheleznostop]

So Luzhkov was suspended for refusing to support Dimon for a 2nd term

[Dedall]

Yes, Golodets mentioned 35 million extra people who need to be disposed of as quickly as possible. She meant pensioners. And the Moscow Mayor added another 15 million rural residents to them. And according to the Ost plan, Rosenberg provided for only 15 million Russians to serve the “superior race”. If we count the “race” of Moscow residents as this, then SAM will soon come forward and tell us what the remaining 60 million of the Russian population are guilty of.
But seriously, this whole “Moscow gang” has created a system of fleecing the Russian population that is extremely convenient only for the population of Moscow. It is based on a unique system of colonization, when all imported goods go only through Moscow companies. I think if Karl Marx had risen from the dead, he would have cried with emotion when he learned the percentage of profits that these companies receive from selling imports to the population of the entire country. And now imagine how much goes to the Moscow budget from the sale of goods throughout Russia.
Another source of revenue for the Moscow budget is the concentration in this New Sodom of almost all the headquarters of companies that produce at least something. And of course all the companies that sell abroad are located there. Accordingly, deductions from their profits also go to the city budget. I would not be surprised if it is slightly less than the profitable part of the country's budget.
Hence Mr. Sobyanin’s reluctance to change the state of things, if we recall the conversation about “de-Moskvichization.” But if you think about it, it’s a sound idea to remove all ministries and headquarters of companies with an annual profit of at least half a billion from the capital. I’m only afraid that Moscow will then turn into something similar to today’s Detroit.

[VVK_VDB]

This is true. I didn’t write earlier, so as not to injure Muscovites, after all, it’s like my own people. This will not end well, unfortunately.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: VVK_VDB

This is true. I didn’t write earlier, so as not to injure Muscovites, after all, it’s like my own people. This will not end well, unfortunately.

Thank you for your “trust”, try to start with your native regions (most of them subsidized), and then come to us with your advice on how you will begin to bring in revenue of 10% of the Russian budget, we will definitely listen to you, how we can develop Moscow.. .
Moscow was a donor for its state both under the Republic of Ingushetia, and under the USSR and under the Russian Federation...., you don’t need to feel sorry for us, love us or give us moral lessons, we need to work and earn money, our city is old enough and has its own rich history so that we can understand the meaning of life in Russia, if you cannot restore order in your regions, work here, far from your native land

still like our own people

or so you want to seem...

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Moscow was a donor for its state both under the Republic of Ingushetia, and under the USSR and under the Russian Federation...., you don’t need to feel sorry for us, love us or give us moral lessons, we need to work and earn money

Oh. Let us remove the main offices of all large companies from Moscow and distribute them to the locations of their main production facilities. All sorts of Rosnefts, Gazproms, endless holdings and 100500 regional enterprises and firms, rebought (captured) and re-registered in Moscow. When this whole crowd stops paying taxes to the Moscow budget, let's see how efficiently you, workers, will earn money.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Greenwood А let's

Let's choke on something, do you have a split personality?
I won’t hide the departure of blue chip companies, the loss of taxes is at a minimum, but Moscow knows that they have little choice... St. Petersburg and Kazan, they won’t move to Uryupinsk...

When this whole crowd stops paying taxes to the Moscow budget, let's see how efficiently you, workers, will earn money.

Apparently during the Union without them they were starving....

[Greenwood]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

however, Moscow knows that they have little choice... St. Petersburg and Kazan, they won’t move to Uryupinsk...

And how is it that in the hated States, multi-billion dollar companies are located in small towns, and do not send everything to New York... And how is it that the capital of the country is Washington, a small, boring and uninteresting city with a population of only 700000 people, where apart from a bunch of ministries there is nothing else No. Unthinkable.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

St. Petersburg and Kazan, they won’t move to Uryupinsk...

Apparently, in the opinion of a typical Muscovite, civilization in Russia ends outside the listed cities.

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Apparently during the Union without them they were starving....

And under the Union, there were much more real industries in Moscow, and not 100500 offices pumping out money. And people were not so eager to go to Moscow, because in both small towns and remote regions there were many factories, enterprises, collective farms, state farms, etc., and sometimes the salary was higher than in Moscow.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Greenwood Apparently, in the opinion of a typical Muscovite, civilization in Russia ends outside the listed cities.

This is not in my opinion, but in the opinion of the heads of companies that locate their head offices in my city, gee...try to force them to move to another place to the detriment of their income....

And people were not so eager to go to Moscow, because in both small towns and remote regions there were many factories, enterprises, collective farms, state farms, etc., and sometimes the salary was higher than in Moscow.

This is Moscow’s fault, what’s different now?
Choose comrade. Zyuganov for President, he will return the collective farms to you.... Muscovites have nothing to do with it, exercise your rights, I’m not getting into your pocket, why are you counting my money, you’re not counting the expenditure part of my budget, you just look how much I earn, come and work, whoever interferes....

[VVK_VDB]

Several years ago, our mayor announced that out of every ruble earned, 17 kopecks remain in the city. The mechanisms for pumping out money were described by Dedall, I can specify how this happens. Would you rather tell us what goods and services are produced by the glorious city of Moscow, with a population of 10% of the population of the entire Russian Federation and 90% of all financial resources of the country? I know that Moscow is not in last place in oil exports, but in first place in the import of grain harvesters. What clearly emerges is Moscow as a trading post for colonial goods.

[asp373]

This is a bummer. Well, why, why write this?! The article has no relation to the original text, but contains only manipulation, slogans and envy.
I usually just read, but I couldn’t stand it here. The author demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how the urban economy works, a complete lack of understanding of the work of the modern economy (well, at least you need to have basic knowledge about a business plan and the break-even point) and a complete ignorance of modern production. The village needs a doctor... Well, I brought a neonatologist there, did it help you?
The comments were upsetting. Patriots will bring us all to Ukraine if they are allowed closer to power than a cannon shot. Actually, I believe that we should live like Ukraine, but somehow our government does not allow us to slide into the abyss. Holy people.

[Greenwood]

Quote: asp373

The village needs a doctor...

What, the village doesn’t deserve a properly functioning clinic? Do you need to travel 300 km to the nearest regional center?

Quote: asp373

You must have basic knowledge about the business plan and break-even point

If we measure everything only by market standards and talk about profits, business plans and break-even points (as Moscow “experts” usually do), then half of Russia must be sold to foreigners. By the way, an excellent business plan: here you have a significant profit, and optimization of costs, and a reduction in the number of subsidized regions, ultimately reaching that same break-even point. Also reduce funding for the army and payments to public sector employees. Profit.

Quote: asp373

Patriots will bring us all to Ukraine if they are allowed closer to power than a cannon shot.

Ftopku patriotism, I agree. Holy investments, save us, your sinful slaves!

Quote: asp373

somehow our government does not allow us to slide into the abyss. Holy people.

hand face

[asp373]

They set up a Feldshesk checkpoint in the village. Why not a doctor? And a more advanced doctor needs at least a laboratory to make the most basic diagnosis.
And yes, everything should be considered by market standards and profit, since the entire superstructure rests on it.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: asp373

They set up a Feldshesk checkpoint in the village. Why not a doctor?

Have you been in a village for a long time?

Quote: asp373

And a more advanced doctor needs at least a laboratory to make the most basic diagnosis.

Yes?!!!

Quote: asp373

And yes, everything should be considered by market standards and profit, since the entire superstructure rests on it.

in Russia, not everything can be considered by market standards precisely because many regions began to do so and found themselves in...

[asiat_61]

The rulers in RUSSIA are saying this!! It's time to lock him up in a mental hospital.

[Nikolaevich I]

But nothing!....Let them continue to trend in this style! Maybe our people will quickly understand: who is trying to “lead” them; run the country.... in general, who is their friend and who is their enemy!

[Wolf 1]

Take out several million migrant workers who are not registered anywhere, and then calculate the productivity.

[staviator]

In a talk show, a Moscow madam of Balzac’s age “complained that between her and her husband, they have an income of about 180 thousand per month, and how can one survive with such a salary. There are no words. If I write that I think they will be banned forever.
What is the average statistical salary?
-Well, for example, you eat cabbage, and your boss eats meat. And together it turns out that you eat cabbage rolls. Greetings to Sobyanin.

[Ivan58]

And the most annoying thing is that he is not the only one. And they don’t care about our statements. Because ONE is in power.

[fif21]

Moscow is a black hole! - fact . Old people are a burden for the bourgeoisie! - fact. You can’t raise labor productivity with a shovel! - fact. 15 million “extra” people are an army! And who is this weirdo crumbling a loaf of bread for?! Moscow burned by fire - given to the people? Oh, "effective managers" will finish the game

[MOSKVITYANIN]

And who is this weirdo crumbling a loaf of bread for?!

At you. He same Moscow Mayor, and not a member of the Government of the Russian Federation, why the hell should he care about your fate....
Your Governor and the Government of the Russian Federation should take care of your fate, otherwise you can also demand something from the mayor of Uryupinsk...

[fif21]

Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

Your Governor and the Government of the Russian Federation should take care of your fate, otherwise you can also demand something from the mayor of Uryupinsk...

I will take care of my destiny myself. Well, Sobyanin about his own Let him say more about what he thinks about people, and he will be happy

[AleBors]

Yeah... I wonder if it’s possible to imagine someone saying something similar 30-35 years ago?

[VVK_VDB]

Our liberals have complete schizophrenia. They cry, saying that the population of the Republic of Ingushetia at the end of the 20th century should have been 500 million, the damned Bolsheviks ruined everything. And today, with a population of 140, they don’t even have 15 extra, all 100 are extra, according to intellectuals from the Higher School of Economics.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: AleBors

Yeah... I wonder if it’s possible to imagine someone saying something similar 30-35 years ago?

Before you shoot, stop and think, before there were about 100 people working on the farm, but now 3-5 can do it, what should we do with the rest?

[AleBors]

Develop the presidential hectare. We have a very large territory.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: AleBors

Develop the presidential hectare

and you are sure that everyone will want it, besides, I’ll say terrible sedition, the “adviser” who suggested this (about a hectare) should be persecuted with pissing rags for idiocy

[Galleon]

29.11.2017/269/XNUMX - XNUMX comments on the article. I would like to congratulate the author of the article, Alexei Volodin, on his excellent rating and sympathize with him. Alexey, with your article you have caused an unreal fountain of shit to be discussed. I have never read so much nastiness and stupidity in one thread. I really sympathize with you that you have such an audience. If this continues, I’ll think about giving up on all these forums, like I did on social networks in my time.

[lukewarm]

Quote: Galleon

With your article you caused an unreal fountain of shit in the form of discussion. I have never read so much nastiness and stupidity in one thread.

I give a standing ovation! Everything is covered in shit, and the majestic GALLEON comes rushing through the shit, and the captain is all in white! How did you not get splashed with shit? And what the liberals and Sobyanin in particular are doing to the country is not disgusting or stupid? And the abundance of comments speaks about one thing, dear: the topic is sore and the stratification in society is extremely dangerous at all levels and in all directions. With such a policy, we don’t even need NATO. We'll kill ourselves.

[Galleon]

Something good should be applauded. What good did I say? What good answer did you give me? What good has everyone said here? What was said reduced the feeling of resentment, did the person cleanse himself and move on? On the contrary, I found sympathizers for my resentment and anger and got on my nerves. Will he play them out on Sobyanin or on some bureaucrat? He will take it out on his wife and children, on the neighbor’s car, which is defenseless in front of him. He’ll take a stone and knock on the hood of a cheap used car with a Moscow license plate - I’ve seen this myself. He won’t knock on a Kruzak or Porsche - he’ll be afraid, but he’ll knock on an old Korean sedan. Because from that fountain.
That is why people must preserve themselves, so as not to climb into the fountain and kill themselves - no matter what is human, and not what the fountain is made of. And those who got in have already started killing themselves.

[Greenwood]

Quote: Galleon

Something good should be applauded. What good did I say? What good answer did you give me? What good has everyone said here? What was said reduced the feeling of resentment, did the person cleanse himself and move on? On the contrary, I found sympathizers for my resentment and anger and got on my nerves. Will he play them out on Sobyanin or on some bureaucrat? He will take it out on his wife and children, on the neighbor’s car, which is defenseless in front of him. He’ll take a stone and knock on the hood of a cheap used car with a Moscow license plate - I’ve seen this myself. He won’t knock on a Kruzak or Porsche - he’ll be afraid, but he’ll knock on an old Korean sedan. Because from that fountain.

Beautifully painted. I just didn’t understand one thing: what is the morality and what to do?

[Galleon]

Quote: Greenwood

Beautifully painted. I just didn’t understand one thing: what is the morality and what to do?

In my opinion, there is nothing else we can do to remain human. I don’t want to go for a coup and murder, no matter how scoundrels those who rule are. Blood is not worth wealth. I want to be at one with A.V. Suvorov: when they hinted to him about the overthrow of Paul (how much evil this one brought), he only said - “I can’t. The blood of my fellow citizens.” And Pavel was alive as long as Suvorov was alive. Condemning and cursing in powerlessness only makes things worse for yourself. This is what I teach my children: no matter what, be human. Let them steal around you - watch yourself. Even if everyone walks around naked or the earth is on fire - act according to your conscience, and do not consider yourself right or better than others - then there will be trouble. It’s all sad, especially when your soul aches for the Fatherland, but you can’t live without sorrow with such a soul - we are in Russia. While I was a small commander in the navy, I tried to act according to my conscience with people and according to the law - with business. And now he’s also a little boss.
But this is mine, Greenwood, you will find yours for yourself. You are a caring person with a warm heart. With youth, excessive roughness will go away, and if love is added to the mind, you will receive wisdom in due time. Who are we without love? Pacifiers.

[VVK_VDB]

“Thank God there is no death penalty in Rus' and it is not for me to introduce it”
Paul the First

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Galleon That is why people must preserve themselves, so as not to climb into the fountain and kill themselves - no matter what is human, and not what the fountain is made of.

I agree that we were good Soviet people, but they became evil, or maybe we were always like this, it just didn’t come out...

[Galleon]

Everything is in a person, everything is mixed, but what a person reveals outwardly is strengthened in him, and something else weakens. 100 years ago, everyone didn’t suddenly become brutal, but as they became brutal, they went to destroy everything around them: “We will destroy the whole world... to the ground...”

[Zheleznostop]

He plays in contrast, the act is like a circus.)

[lukewarm]

The specter of civil war lingers. It is already happening in Ukraine and we are no better. Is it the presence of oil and gas? The social structure of society is the same. There Kyiv and European integration are against - “drones” from mines with low productivity. We have: Effective non-rubber and drones from the villages. There were no speeches (or were not included in the article) by the top managers of “our” national leaders. commons They would have placed the accents a little differently and the highly effective merchandisers of the capital would be supplemented by the no less built-in market scumbags of gas-porn, oh, Gazprom, excuse me.

[lukewarm]

Recently, out of curiosity, I looked at the vacancies at the Moscow Salyut plant. Leading design engineer - 25000 (!!!!) rubles. In Moscow!. Sobyanin! There are extra people around you. Judging by these salaries. And of course, it is indiscriminate to accuse all Muscovites of the fact that they have it this way and we have it completely like that - the evil that lies on the surface. There are also people there whose lives are not very good.

[LUCKY777]

the average Muscovite is 2,5 times higher than the Russian average and 5-7 times higher than the indicator for rural areas.

Money from oil should be invested at 100 in combines and new machines, and not in American safe harbors.

[Vladimir Vasilich]

I would like to move from emotions to sensible thoughts. And who carried out Stalin's industrialization and industrial LEAP? Aren't those “superfluous conditionally” peasants? Of which there were not 15 million at that time, but probably 80 - 90 percent of the population.
And who will carry out the new industrialization announced by Putin - “transferring the economy to mobilization tracks”?
In rural conditions, on your knees, you can’t produce anything except potatoes and cabbage for the Army and Navy!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: VladimirVasilich

In rural conditions, on your knees, you can’t produce anything except potatoes and cabbage for the Army and Navy!

today's industry has the same disease as agriculture - the release of people

[Ivan58]

Last year the potatoes in the dacha failed. In the spring, seeing a surplus of about 400 kg, I decided to sell. I started looking for where in Moscow, an ordinary person, could legally do this. Throwing it away means wasting your work. There is NOT A SINGLE MARKET on the Internet throughout Moscow. But there are a lot of outbids. At the market near Ulaanbaatar, potatoes of similar quality cost about 70 rubles per kg. I would be happy to sell for 35. However, there is no place. This year I was in the Nizhny Novgorod region. The brothers grow potatoes there. They started talking about the harvest and sales. Last year's harvest was sold to buyers for 8 rubles. per kilo... The situation is the same. Now we consider the difference between purchase and sale. We take into account the costs of transportation and storage. And we understand: Sobyanin is right. Labor productivity in Moscow for growing potatoes is indeed 5 times higher than in the countryside.

[MOSKVITYANIN]

E_V_N You answer a simple question, why does the district doctor in Moscow get 4 more than in Muhosk? Is it that in 4 times smarter or in Muhosk people in 4 times are more simply arranged? Only after that, you can talk about the budget of Moscow.

You understand, Moscow is the richest subject of the Russian Federation and, accordingly, the Moscow Government can afford to make additional payments to teachers, doctors, etc.
My mother is a doctor and she receives additional payments to her pension and salary not from the Government of the Russian Federation (which does not care about her), but from the Moscow Government, why, because the Moscow Government respects the work of its residents, but your governor does not...
Why

in Muhoska people are 4 times simpler

This is not a question for me, but at least for the mayor of this city, I’m not asking you why Muscovites live worse than the Swiss....

[VVK_VDB]

I’m not asking you why Muscovites live worse than the Swiss.
_______________________________________
The natives will not get rich by trading colonial goods. We are changing the discourse from comprador to creative.

[nnz226]

Mentioning a fat brute with the name of a writer whose books the country’s patriots were brought up with is bad manners!

[Overlock]

Quote: your1970

did you forget the 90s, when did you shoot in large numbers on the streets of brothers / businessmen? And the fact that now there is none of this is one of the merits of the police.

I don't agree. It's just these brothers now businessmen. They don't need to shoot. They will buy policemen and they will sort everything out

[Overlock]

Quote: Galleon

This is what I teach my children: no matter what, be human. Let them steal around you - watch yourself. Even if everyone walks around naked or the earth is on fire - act according to your conscience, and do not consider yourself right or better than others - then there will be trouble.

well said. I stand in the same positions, sometimes I just don’t like myself for it

[Captain Nemo]

To give a full quotation and, without understanding it, begin to denounce it, this is our way, the Brazilian way. And we are talking about people living in rural areas, but not engaged in agricultural production

[uskrabut]

Why are they not involved in agricultural production? Because the privatization of agricultural enterprises was carried out for free, plus the incompetent tax policy of the state. For farmers, there is no need for income tax or any VAT; a rather high (within reasonable limits) tax on agricultural land is required. Then the owner or tenant will be vitally interested in fully extracting profit from every hundred square meters of land, then workers will be needed in vegetable growing, poultry farming, horticulture, livestock farming - wherever they were needed on collective and state farms. And what now: they sow fields with a monoculture without crop rotation and fallows, it’s profitable! I sowed in the spring, harvested in the fall - the costs are minimal! And then, even if there was a flood, I got mine from this piece of land.

[SUYUNBEK KAZYBAYEV]

in the states, the percentage of the rural population is around 5%; they feed the entire country; well, there is a large group of seasonal workers, mostly Mexicans, but this indicates a high degree of mechanization in agriculture and, as a consequence, high productivity. in Russia, approximately 32% of the rural population, perhaps Sobyanin was based on approximately such information, then it turns out that there are “superfluous people” in the countryside

[Sergej1972]

Not 32, but approximately 23%. Agree, there is a difference.

[Offspring]

interesting, he took into account the climate, Americans live south of Sochi and Crimea

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

In our rural areas, there are approximately 15 million extra people who are, by and large, not needed for the production of agricultural products, taking into account new technologies of productivity in the countryside.

You can make as much noise as you like, but he’s 200% right

[Offspring]

One job in business is equal to two million rubles, I thought. One highly efficient location will be ten times more expensive. And where can a business get money if it goes straight to the Seychelles through the paving slabs of the same Moscow? They probably don’t even come to Moscow. Read the Moscow budget. How much is there for landscaping? So what about local efficiency if Moscow is sucking out the regions?

[uskrabut]

“Their (that is, you and me) labor productivity is low, they (that is, you and me) retire too early.”
But this just depends, first of all, on the authorities and secondly on the employer! They should provide high-tech jobs for Russian citizens, and not bring in cheap labor in the form of guest workers. To do this, the minimum wage must ensure the life of a family of two adults and two children, with the possibility of savings, and when hiring guest workers, the employer must be obliged to pay the same amount to the budget for the maintenance of the family of a Russian citizen.
Enough of competing with the whole world, we need to develop domestic consumption, and for this we need to radically increase the incomes of our citizens. Then they won’t care about the international situation. And we must not forget that Russia has the largest territory with a population of 140 million. This means that the country must be populated and it must be populated by a loyal population. And we keep stimulating the outflow of population from the regions - it’s savage, there’s no other way to put it.

[andrej-shironov]

The real brake on the development of the Russian economy is clearly not the Russian people. And many people know this brake. True, some are satisfied with this state of affairs.

[DPN]

In all likelihood, Moscow is a devastator of the Russian land, it sucks the population of Russia into itself, exposing the outskirts of the country. Who benefits from this???

[MOSKVITYANIN]

Quote: DPN

In all likelihood, Moscow is a devastator of the Russian land, it sucks the population of Russia into itself, exposing the outskirts of the country. Who benefits from this???

Well, probably for the governors of the REGIONAL REGIONS, it’s safer to sit forever in subsidized regions and people in empty poverty-stricken regions are not in the way under their feet, and it’s easier to drink away federal money when there are fewer eaters....

[Ajevgenij]

15 ml. population.,-bah, so this is the number of population of Moscow-)

[Offspring]

Damn, why do you have to strive somewhere. Grow, increase productivity. Why can't we just live and die on our own land like our ancestors did. The land was taken away and what remained in it, even an aspen stake does not grow. Local factories were destroyed, roads were straightened, medicine was optimized, and now you see we are not effective. As soon as a piece of bread climbs into this Sobyan’s throat, although there is probably no caviar, it will be smaller. If Putin’s United Russia so wants to move forward to new technologies, then there is only one way out - to leave Russia. But ordinary people should be left alone with their problems, and they also need permission to carry short-barreled rifled weapons. So that such screamers will no longer be born.

[Santor]

There’s one thing I didn’t understand..... I read what Sobyanin said four times... What did he say wrong????? Because below are posts from people who either haven’t read at all or have some other conceptual plane.

He clearly said that 15 officials and other social workers live in the countryside, who produce absolutely nothing and just sit on the necks of others, and that in small towns the same is true - is there a ton of highly qualified work with normal pay everywhere?? ?

He's right... About 10 people are currently working on the ground and they have 100 inspectors from the region and different administrations. And these 10 are forced to feed this entire army.

I read it and can’t believe my eyes... The author cites the words and immediately turns them upside down and all at once - dammit!!!! What, did you want Maidan? so with the naked eye they prepare it from you, you are practically ready.

[Santor]

Quote: Prole

Damn, why do you have to strive somewhere. Grow, increase productivity. Why can't we just live and die on our own land like our ancestors did. The land was taken away and what remained in it, even an aspen stake does not grow. Local factories were destroyed, roads were straightened, medicine was optimized, and now you see we are not effective. As soon as a piece of bread climbs into this Sobyan’s throat, although there is probably no caviar, it will be smaller. If Putin’s United Russia so wants to move forward to new technologies, then there is only one way out - to leave Russia. But ordinary people should be left alone with their problems, and they also need permission to carry short-barreled rifled weapons. So that such screamers will no longer be born.

That's right.. Fuck us with technology, we could use a glass of vodka, a bathhouse, a broom and it will all go to dust... And salaries and pensions themselves will fall like snowflakes from the sky... Cool post...