Military Review

Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?

373
Tribune. Microphone. The economic (political-economic) guru takes the floor, bringing to the attention the idea of ​​“how we can equip Russia”. One guru, another guru, third guru, etc. If we make a comparative description of such speeches, then one thesis can often be distinguished, which is promoted as the main one: Russians for the most part work poorly and not for long.


Their labor productivity (that is, yours with us) is low, they (they, that is) retire too early to retire. Accordingly, the proposals expressed by the economic gurus regarding the “arrangement of Russia” turn out to be in fact like a carbon copy: we’ll develop the retirement age - we’ll raise the retirement age, for too long, the parasites live; The funds we earn will mainly be spent on investment in the Western financial and economic system (so that partners will praise and give visas to the people’s servants at another time), we will increase labor productivity with acts and other pieces of paper - at least at the local financial statements. On pieces of paper, something just MOGE - say the guru ...

Saturday. 25 November. V All-Russian Civil Forum. Sincere conversation "The future of the country's economy: the role of agglomerations" of Moscow mayor Sergei Sobyanin and head of the board of the Center for Strategic Research, chairman of the Committee for Civil Initiatives Alexei Kudrin. The conversation was officially presented as a “discussion”, although the discussion as such did not come out for the reason that the “discussion” theses were from a single test.

From the mouth of Sobyanin sounded what was mentioned above: labor productivity on average in the country is low. Further, as a Moscow mayor, Sobyanin Moscow withdrew from this “vicious list” of “low-productive”, declaring that the labor productivity of the average Muscovite is 2,5 times higher than the average Russian indicator and 5-7 times higher than the figure for rural areas. Starting with a remarkable Moscow labor productivity, Sergei Semenovich agreed to the point that he announced the presence of "extra" people in the countryside.

So that later, like that boy Kolya ”, there were no misinterpretations about“ words taken out of context ”, it is better to quote a direct quotation from the Moscow mayor. It is published by the news agency. TASS:
Using the example of the Russian Federation, I can say that labor productivity in Moscow is 2,5 times higher than the average for Russia, and if you take the countryside, then 5-7 times. We live in the rural area conditionally "extra" 15 million people, who for the production of agricultural products, taking into account the new productivity technologies in the village, are largely not needed, these are either officials or social workers, but fewer and fewer people who can find high-performance and high-quality work. The situation is similar in small provincial cities. There really is less and less good employment and quality jobs.

So, labor productivity in the country is low, according to the deep conviction of a Moscow official, because of the presence of “conditionally extra” people. In Moscow, there are no “extra” people, everyone works like a bees and ants, but there are people in the village. It would seem, based on this thesis, the economic gurus will propose to redirect part of the funds that continue to be actively invested in American cut paper to infrastructure projects to support the village and small cities. It would seem that now there will literally be a phrase about the need to build a full-fledged state program to create jobs in the province, to extrapolate technologies to the whole territory of Russia, to develop the immense territories of the country, and not just within the Third Transport. But no ... We are listening to Sergey Semenovich further:
The authorities are going against natural trends occurring in the whole world, where urbanization has not stopped. It is the fastest growing in the largest cities of the world. And it is abundantly clear that without changing the structure of the population settlement, without concentration in large metropolitan areas, we cannot raise labor productivity, neither high technology, nor science, nor education, nor health care, nor human capital. Without this, Russia will lose competitiveness in the economy.


Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?


Well, then - again about Moscow from Sobyanin:
Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.


That is, the idea is as follows: the state is driving “extra” people to megacities; these “extra” people are looking for a place under the sun as effective managers and other merchandisers. They will rearrange Chinese soft toys and Turkish tomatoes from the shelf to the shelf 3 once a day, re-stick the labels so that the buyer, naively thinking that he is buying goods at a discount, will pay one and a half times more than “before the discount” - this is for you and productivity growth. What do you think ...

No, well, you can, of course, begin to be outraged - they say, how can that be, and where are the ideas about the development of the village that feeds Russia and not only Russia, how does work on the land? - after all, merchandisers and managers do not raise the industry to the levels required for economic growth.

But who needs our perturbations and other things, forgive me, snot ... Noo-to. This is obvious, based on at least the thesis that since the days of another economic guru, E. Gaidar, the market is built in Russia. And the market and social responsibility are incompatible things. Moreover, the concepts “modern Russian market” and “social responsibility of big business and officials” are even more incompatible. When there are no intelligible criteria for assessing labor productivity and social responsibility (excluding responsibility to a small group of persons), then you can hang noodles on your ears that “buy-sell” vendor has “5-7 times more productive labor than a teacher in a rural school. " For what patterns is determined by comparing the productivity of a single paramedic for five neighboring villages and employee productivity, for example, a hospital of the Ministry of Defense. Is it possible to carry out such a comparison at all when the level of provision of medical institutions in the village and in the center of Moscow itself is “intergalactic distance”.

We have learned to send a person (and now also an American ...) to space, but our officials still do not know how to send a person (doctor) by ambulance to individual Siberian villages. They don’t know or simply don’t want to know, they just don’t want ... Less than “conventionally superfluous” people - less spending from the budget. After all, the provision of medical services to remote settlements does not give advantages to the treasury of a market economy, does not give benefits (as officials understand it) to the treasury of international relations. And here, on the top, it is much more important what report about Russia will be given to Deutsche Welle or the New York Times, than how things are going in Russia without looking through German, British, American and other “partner” prisms.

And then, you see, he was 60 for years, he’s just 40 for years on the tractor otpahal - and already retired, a parasite, a drone ... As if not so - take your feet in your hands, drive to Moscow agglomeration, there you will make “A real contribution to the market economy”, don't you dare to compete with guests from Central Asia, these are our strategic partners! Allocate funds for a new tractor, create new jobs in the village itself to increase productivity? - Well, no, pipes - not for that, we have tens of billions of people vdukhuyvayutsya in Kudrinomika, to let the petrodollar on some kind of “extra rusty” petrodollars.

So, the main brake of Russia is designated: these are millions of “provincial drones” who, you know, do not allow to move forward by leaps and bounds. It is the provincials. Well, not the army of officials, not the herds of corrupt officials with 10-th budgets of regional centers under the sofa, not total theft on the creation of infrastructure facilities, not "servants of nations" with Swiss or Florida real estate issued to a second cousin, but "extra" people, not wishing to work "in a modern way" ...

"Conditionally extra people." One can imagine the political future of officials somewhere in our so much honored individual EU leaders, if they would say something like that in relation to their fellow citizens ... And in our case, it is possible. Expert assessment, you know, ideas of development. Slaves still do not understand, because "take words out of context." And indeed, how can we understand the words in such a context ...
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 27 November 2017 07: 14 New
    48
    From the lips of Sobyanin sounded what was mentioned above: labor productivity in the country is low on average.

    Like salary ... you demand more productivity from people ... pay more too.
    Now the average bar is limited by the financial authorities of RUSSIA to 25-30 thousand rubles, while the authorities want us to work as Stakhanovites and receive them as blacks in South Africa in the last century.
    In general, Sobyanin is pursuing a policy of total urbanization of Moscow by liquidating houses with a small number of people and building mega residential buildings with the maximum number of residents ... moreover, in a voluntary-forced manner, as is always done in RUSSIA ... and this is understandable why ... huge are at stake money.
    I really don’t like it ... the control of the authorities over a person’s personal life takes on a total character ... you will not be left alone.
    1. pin_code
      pin_code 27 November 2017 07: 35 New
      74
      My opinion is that the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members, are over 15 million. And life will become easier, life will be more fun. I was in Moscow in 16, I saw what money was being spent on and I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which nothing is built except for shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 27 November 2017 07: 40 New
        43
        Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?
        a little more, and the whole of Zamkadye will be systematically leveled with bulldozers, and build golf courses, for Outrageous ... and retirement will be considered a criminal offense ..., with eviction to some sort of Island, in the Laptev Sea.
      2. Bureaucrat
        Bureaucrat 27 November 2017 09: 17 New
        36
        Well, of course, we do not work, we are in the Kuzbass so little things, we chop coal, we cook steel, we bring down wood, and so on. etc.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 27 November 2017 10: 29 New
          24
          Quote: Bureaucrat
          Well, of course, we do not work, we are in the Kuzbass so little things, we chop coal, we cook steel, we bring down wood, and so on. etc.

          In-in.
          And it’s also interesting - how is this very labor productivity calculated for Russians who live in different regions and engage in different types of activities? I understand when comparing, let's say a mine in Kuzbass and a mine in Yakutia, you can compare the number of miners, production, the cost of coal, etc. But in Moscow there are no mines. And gas and oil are not produced in Moscow, and metal, and wood, and much more.
          1. dauria
            dauria 27 November 2017 11: 28 New
            52
            And it’s also interesting how this Russian labor productivity is generally calculated,


            I also thought ... Probably, in rubles, divided by man-hour. Like, the change of machine-tool workers at the cold landing site in Saratov earns as much as the foreign exchange whore in the Kremlin in an hour. Ay-yai-yay ... Loafers. (By the way, instead of a “whore” you can put a bunch of metropolitan “professions.” For example, a journalist, mayor, deputy ... laughing )
            1. GUKTU76
              GUKTU76 27 November 2017 15: 56 New
              +8
              There is such a thing - gross domestic product (this is for the country) or gross regional product - for the region. In rubles. It is divided into the soul. Population, if you compare countries. Workers, if companies are compared. The most amazing thing is that there is absolutely no difference how the revenue is earned. Here https://vz.ru/economy/2014/5/30/689252.html about the UK.
              It is clear that the capital firm’s turnover is higher than the provincial one of the same profile. And our logistics is mainly from the capital. So no wonder.
              But with work in the Moscow region has always been tight. Usually the majority of the population of the region has always worked in the capital.
              1. rkkasa xnumx
                rkkasa xnumx 27 November 2017 17: 30 New
                11
                Quote: GUKTU76
                The most amazing thing is that there is absolutely no difference how the revenue is earned. Here https://vz.ru/economy/2014/5/30/689252.html about the UK

                The article just writes that:
                "Russia in its GDP does not take into account the volume of the shadow economy or the economy from illegal activities, such as drug trafficking and prostitution."
                Quote: GUKTU76
                There is such a thing - gross domestic product (this is for the country) or gross regional product - for the region. In rubles. It is divided into souls. Population, if you compare countries. Workers, if companies are compared.

                That is, GRP is stupidly divided by the population of this region. The technique is of course delusional. Accordingly, Sobyaninsky:
                "labor productivity in Moscow is 2,5 times higher than the national average
                Moscow is not a black hole that draws in talents and finances. This is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions "

                it's bullshit.
                1. GUKTU76
                  GUKTU76 28 November 2017 07: 17 New
                  +2
                  The technique is of course delusional.

                  Until another came up. Incidentally, provides interesting material for thought.
                  In general, in capitals, as a rule, people live more comfortably than in the provinces. In Soviet times, compared the level of meat consumption per capita. In Moscow, this figure was 168 kg. In Kalinin - 18. Therefore, a mocking joke about a train smelling of sausage is based on realities. It seems that from that time, by and large, not much has changed.
              2. nickname7
                nickname7 29 November 2017 19: 25 New
                0
                Blackmokona,
                The most amazing thing is that there is absolutely no difference in how revenue is earned.
                What makes the difference is not, but there is a difference in the price of transportation.
                The Russian Federation is a country with huge distances and you did not take into account such an important parameter as the cost of transportation, on a compact territory, the costs are low, due to the short distances.
          2. Blackmokona
            Blackmokona 27 November 2017 11: 30 New
            +1
            Very simple, we take the company's revenue and divide by the number of employees
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 27 November 2017 12: 53 New
              17
              Quote: BlackMokona
              Very simple, we take the company's revenue and divide by the number of employees

              And a shopping center, for example, is this an enterprise? I agree - Moscow entertainment has much more revenue than provincial ones. Only now I doubt that the labor productivity and the driver of the economy, the mall have a strong relationship.
              Or such a nuance - the head office of the enterprise in Moscow, taxes to Moscow, and oil is extracted in Zauryupinsk. The question is how to compare the effectiveness of the Moscow builder-waiter-security guard-bartender-stylist who serve managers from this office with the efficiency of those who produce oil in Zauryupinsk?
              1. Blackmokona
                Blackmokona 27 November 2017 13: 11 New
                +1
                They simply divide the company into a number of companies. The head office is one company, oil production in Zauryupensky is the second company.
                For example, there is a Samsung Group where the main Koreans sit
                There is a Samsung Electronics, where they produce electronics.
                And there is Samsung Russia, which stores and sells Samsung products in Russia.
                1. rkkasa xnumx
                  rkkasa xnumx 27 November 2017 13: 58 New
                  +5
                  Quote: BlackMokona
                  They simply divide the company into a number of companies. Head office one company, oil production in Zauryupensky second company

                  Well, who do you think shares Rosneft, for example, and why? But even if someone actually shared, then comparing the productivity of managers from the head office, their servants, and oil workers is just nonsense.
                  Therefore, the words of Sobyanin, this is a gobbled lie.
                  1. Blackmokona
                    Blackmokona 27 November 2017 16: 35 New
                    +2
                    Rosneft belongs to the state, and it shares. We look.
                    Rosneft Public Joint Stock Company is a Russian oil and gas company, the majority stake of which is owned by the state-owned Rosneftegaz JSC. In 2013, it became the largest oil producer in the world [4] [5]. According to Expert magazine, in 2012, it ranked third among Russian companies in terms of revenue [6].

                    That is, the head office is Rosneftegaz, and the hard workers are Rosneft.
                    1. rkkasa xnumx
                      rkkasa xnumx 27 November 2017 17: 08 New
                      +8
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      and hard workers are NK Rosneft

                      "Oil company" Rosneft ". Headquarters - in Moscow.
                      Good workaholic settled down.
                      And you still cannot answer the main question -
                      how to compare the effectiveness of the Moscow builder-waiter-guard-bartender-stylist who serve managers from this office with the efficiency of those who produce oil in Zauryupinsk?
                      1. Blackmokona
                        Blackmokona 27 November 2017 17: 12 New
                        +2
                        Taki explain in more detail then.
                        Rosneftegaz buys oil at cost from Rosneft and then sells it to the world market.
                        Rosneft's additional product is equal to the cost of oil, $ 20 per barrel.
                        An additional product of Rosneftegaz at the world oil price minus payment of Rosneft. Ie 40 dollars
                        Then we divide the obtained data by the number of employees. We get labor productivity.
                      2. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 27 November 2017 17: 21 New
                        +1
                        In Russia, labor productivity is probably measured by the amount of taxes paid by the employer. The more tax deductions, the higher labor productivity.
                      3. nickname7
                        nickname7 29 November 2017 19: 13 New
                        +1
                        An officer in Zaurupinsk will earn less, because - in a tiny city compared to Moscow, there are stupidly fewer visitors, there are no tourists and minuscule offices.
                        There is such a thing as "division of labor", the higher the division of labor, the higher the productivity. The more professions in the city, the richer the city. The richer and more developed the country, the more agglomerations it has. There are two agglomerations in the Russian Federation, and eight in the states. Moscow is an overconcentration of the population, science, culture, finance, low transportation costs, which gives a synergistic effect, unattainable if it is spread over a large area.
                    2. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 29 November 2017 16: 47 New
                      0
                      Quote: BlackMokona
                      That is, the head office is Rosneftegaz, and the hard workers are Rosneft.

                      Her, you are confusing something: JSC Rosneftegaz, an asset management company in the oil and gas industry, owns shares of Rosneft, is registered in Moscow! NK Rosneft - an oil and gas company, registered in Moscow! And hard workers somewhere in the north!
            2. dauria
              dauria 27 November 2017 21: 09 New
              +8
              Very simple, we take the company's revenue and divide by the number of employees


              wassat Then the recipe !!!! To kill everyone, leave only ten oligarchs, enrolling them in the state of Gazprom. Collect hard workers from Tajiks, but not to the state of Gazprom, but to a third-party office, "Horns and Hooves" for a penny, and not legally Russian. The Japanese will envy such performance with all their robots. laughing

              Well, as the simple thing does not come to pass - extra people have appeared not from the fact that somewhere productivity has grown, but because production has ceased.
            3. karabas86
              karabas86 1 December 2017 22: 11 New
              0
              And for 1 with a bipod seven with a spoon, that’s low productivity, and a spoon is always larger than a bipod.
          3. demo
            demo 28 November 2017 14: 22 New
            12
            Already far from the boy Sergei Sobyanin, in terms of his development, in the plane of ethical standards, he did not go far from the notorious boy Kolya, who spoke in the Bundestag.
            Moscow produces the most important, most needed, most demanded and liquid product - money. Much money.
            And he is there - the mayor.

            I have long been tormented by the question: here, officials become such politically and socially amorphous ciliates-shoes, without shame and conscience, or they were born and mimicked like that under normal people.
            1. fif21
              fif21 29 November 2017 04: 54 New
              0
              Quote: demo
              Already far from the boy Sergei Sobyanin, in terms of his development, in the plane of ethical standards, he did not go far from the notorious boy Kolya, who spoke in the Bundestag.
              good Krylov’s fable "Pig under the Oak" he clearly did not read. wassat
          4. evsyukov_a
            evsyukov_a 29 November 2017 12: 38 New
            +1
            Well, how else? Salary, of course! My friend cleaning company for some 5 thousand. 2 sofas demolished in the trash. From the 3rd floor. In exactly half the salary of a nanny in the kindergarten. Or in the hospital ...
          5. karabas86
            karabas86 1 December 2017 22: 08 New
            +1
            It’s interesting to compare the productivity of the designer of pubic haircuts and the miner, it turns out that the work of the hairdresser is more intense
          6. White and fluffy
            White and fluffy 3 December 2017 07: 36 New
            0
            Can be compared at the newly created value.
        2. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 27 November 2017 21: 21 New
          +7
          Quote: Bureaucrat
          Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?

          Breathe smoothly. He is not about you. It’s about the village, the single-industry town, ....... Oh, Eburg is not lucky, he doesn’t pull on megacities. Well, Kuzbass looks like that too. Little coal .... does the country need this? MOSCOW! And I'm in it - the navel of the earth.
          Thatcher recalls this speech: “For Russia, 30 million is enough (I don’t know who they meant, people, heads, slaves, rams ...). Yes, 30 million and 100 million.“ The distances are long, ”but you need to start. Today they found 15 million extra, tomorrow another 5 million, look, and the "process has begun" ..... (or has it been going on for 30 years?)
      3. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 27 November 2017 20: 24 New
        0
        Quote: pin_code
        I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which they build nothing but shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...

        And what does Sobyanin have to do with it? Moscow is the same subject of the Russian Federation as the Novokuznetsk region, Moscow is the donor region, Novokuznetsk region. subsidized region. Every 10th ruble kept in the treasury of the Russian Federation is earned by Muscovites, if there are only 12 donor regions in the country, and the rest are subsidized, these are all questions to the head of state, and not to the head of one of the subjects of this state ....
        There are no oil, gas, gold, etc. in Moscow. however, for some reason, it was a donor both in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR and now ...
        Well, what he says, it can be explained simply - HE IS NOT MOSCOW, and he does not care about this city, as far as I know, he is from Siberia ....
        1. japs
          japs 27 November 2017 23: 36 New
          +5
          "MOSKVITYANIN
          And what does Sobyanin have to do with it? Moscow is the same subject of the Russian Federation as the Novokuznetsk region, Moscow is a donor region ...
          ... Well, what he says is easy to explain - HE IS NOT MOSCOW ... "

          I think the quoted is quite enough ...
        2. Dr_engie
          Dr_engie 28 November 2017 18: 35 New
          +2
          Only here during the USSR in Moscow there was such an oil industry, and now there are only managers.
          And what kind of overwork then Muscovites earn every 10th ruble, interesting?
          1. Galleon
            Galleon 29 November 2017 12: 08 New
            +3
            Here is a list of Moscow factories: http://www.wiki-prom.ru/city/6city.html
            In addition: transport companies need to be listed, or remember yourself - working both for the city and for the country as a whole? Communication doesn’t produce anything, it provides services, but nonetheless ... Without Moscow, we wouldn’t be sitting on the forum here - there would be no communication. And to feed 15 million people daily is not work? Is it possible to earn a ruble, is it just steel pouring or fattening bulls? What about the MIG Corporation? And the Khrunichev association? No need to say questions in the heat of the moment. In Moscow there are only 3 car repair plants, 3 concrete plants - XNUMX pieces, take a look at the list.
            1. vik669
              vik669 30 November 2017 05: 15 New
              +1
              What about the MIG Corporation? And the Khrunichev association? It’s not necessary - that they have been producing it in recent years, so 20 and other enterprises from which the signs have been preserved. Take away taxes from all over Russia from Moscow and 3,14dets to Moscow, and let each Muscovite give a Far Eastern hectare to show labor productivity there.
              The whole Union plowed on our "dear capital" and now ....! And the attitude of Russians towards Moscow and the "Muscovites" has always been and is appropriate! Well, whoever controls the beekeeper or the reindeer breeder there doesn’t matter - there is no holy place!
              1. MOSKVITYANIN
                MOSKVITYANIN 1 December 2017 21: 13 New
                0
                vik669 give each “Muscovite” a Far Eastern hectare there to demonstrate labor productivity
                The law allows us to get it ourselves, without any ado, the "toad" strangles that you yourself can get your 2x2 meters in Moscow at best only in a strictly designated place on the graveyard, but you still need to buy this 2x2 section, you can cheaper but for cremation someone from your relatives will have to sell your Far Eastern hectare, gee ....
        3. michell
          michell 29 November 2017 16: 06 New
          +6
          Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
          And what does Sobyanin have to do with it? Moscow is the same subject of the Russian Federation as Novokuznetsk region, Moscow regiondonar, Novokuznetsk region subsidized region. Every 10th ruble located in the treasury of the Russian Federation is earned by Muscovites, if there are only 12 regions in the country donars, and the rest are subsidized, so these are all questions to the head of state, and not to the head of one of the subjects of this state .... There are no oil, gas, gold, etc. on the territory of Moscow however for some reason she was donar and under the Republic of Ingushetia, and during the USSR and now ...

          Now, armed with a spelling dictionary, re-read your opus, VERY CAREFULLY, RE-READ everything that is written in the comments THREE times, carefully study the map of Russia, and now, maybe, after that it will reach you, why the province of the inhabitants of the throne is, as it were, softer say ... don't like it.
          Donors, ... (hereinafter S. Lavrov)
          1. skaramaks27
            skaramaks27 29 November 2017 17: 32 New
            +1
            The Russian government reported on the federal budget for next year. According to Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, it takes into account the likely tightening of US sanctions against the Russian Federation. The Minister noted that the possible arrest by the Americans of domestic gold and foreign exchange reserves (gold reserves) will be regarded as a declaration of economic war.

            If the sanctions restrictions include the freezing of foreign accounts of the Central Bank, which contain securities and currency from Russian reserves, this would be tantamount to declaring a financial war in Russia
            - quotes Siluanov Interfax.

            The minister noted that the Russian budget is based on the oil price of $ 40 per barrel. This gives a certain "margin of safety" and confidence.

            At the same time, Siluanov believes that the scenario of the arrest of gold reserves is unlikely.

            However, in 2014, the Russian government was not so sure. As it became known from the report of the US Federal Reserve, immediately after the accession of Crimea, the Russian Central Bank withdrew about 115 billion dollars from the United States. At that time, the Kremlin was afraid of freezing the country's foreign exchange assets and did not take risks. True, after some time all the funds were returned to the United States.

            Recall that the Central Bank of Russia is the largest buyer of gold in the world, acquiring more than all other Central banks combined.

            Explain, please!
          2. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 29 November 2017 20: 03 New
            0
            michell study the map of Russia

            He studied at school, and therefore it is surprising why regions rich in minerals (in Moscow there is nothing of natural resources) live like rogues, they probably like it ....
            after that it will come to you why the province of the inhabitants of the throne, as it were softer to say ... They do not like.

            Before that, like Violet, I don’t baptize children with them, I don’t like Moscow, why would they go here, would live happily at home with their Governor and their resources ....
            It’s your karma to give if there is that the Russian Federation and not get anything in return, all claims to the Government of the Russian Federation, you can leave the Russian Federation with your region, Muscovites do not hold anyone by the sleeve ...
            We have our own constituent entity of the Russian Federation having the same rights and obligations (in terms of paying taxes to the budget of the Russian Federation, we are in the first place) like others, I do not like the fact that the capital of Moscow, we will not oppose the whole of the Russian Federation ....
            People will not go to a bad place to earn money and live there ...
            Donors, ... (hereinafter S. Lavrov)

            So they answered their question, why Muscovites do not care what
            You will understand why the province of the inhabitants of the throne, as it were softer to say ... They do not like.

            were beggars, beggars and will remain, you are a projection of the Ukrainian people who hate the Russian Federation but go there to earn money ....
            we don’t mind coming, we need janitors and laborers, sweeping our city, and in your free time you can hate us ....
      4. tank64rus
        tank64rus 28 November 2017 18: 46 New
        0
        I agree to all 100%. To remove them all there to the West only the people's money is a pity Trump confiscates.
      5. Overlock
        Overlock 28 November 2017 20: 30 New
        +2
        but some just excitedly praise the Reindeer Breeder. For me, it's time to plant it. how much harm he did to Moscow!
        1. Galleon
          Galleon 29 November 2017 12: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: Overlock
          but some just excitedly praise the Reindeer Breeder. For me, it's time to plant it. how much harm he did to Moscow!

          Overlock, on one of the topics I put + to each of your posts, but here our opinions differ. How much harm did Sobyanin do to Moscow? By demolishing stalls and pavilions by the subway? I think that by this he cleared the paths to bomb shelters. What else? Tell me, maybe I really don’t know? Moscow prettier under Sobyanin, the city became very beautiful and well-groomed. This is just the opinion of a man who came here already the third dozen years ago.
          Well, and here's another one: is it really so drawn to the choir of obgavshayuschih? Are you sure you are right in this? To myself, his thought is disgusting and perfectly characterizes him, but is it not better to remain silent - there will be enough people who want it without you, and you will be protected from sin.
          Our time is interesting - familiar things or phenomena get new names. In krajina, the most terrible kind of fool - proactive (I put it very gently, other expressions are closer to reality) - is called an activist. Activists are engaged in running and ruining their own country. Here, in the discussion of articles, there is also a bed of still verbal activists. One offered to shoot teenagers at demonstrations and gathered 8 sympathizers !!! Others offer - first money - then work - 38 voters !!! Only this zoo doesn’t amuse - it’s from humanity. A fresh example: Golovan Jack’s post next to this one of mine - normal and on business - 3 likes - and Greenwood's return bark - a real bark! - 17 likes!
          1. Overlock
            Overlock 29 November 2017 14: 40 New
            +1
            I am against a beautiful wrapper of poor content. Believe me, Moscow’s health has done a lot of damage. This is more important than stalls, tiles, etc., for me, at least.
            Here is one of the achievements: only in the first half of 2015 in Moscow the growth in mortality was 4,9%! In total, in 2015 in Moscow the growth of community-acquired (at home) mortality amounted to 72%, including among able-bodied (!) Citizens (252% !!!)!
            Do you know that in Moscow medical emergency teams were eliminated (paramedics go), emergency medical care was eliminated?
            Do you know that an ambulance rushes around Moscow to attach a patient, because in Moscow there are not enough places in hospitals? Do you know that in cardiopulmonary resuscitation in Moscow, resuscitation patients wait for a place on chairs until someone dies or is transferred?
            Little can be said, very much cannot. This is enough for me.
            1. Galleon
              Galleon 29 November 2017 17: 58 New
              +1
              I don’t know much from what you said. I know that the brigades set a fictitious arrival time - you can’t spend more than 8 minutes on a trip according to the standard - this figure has already been reported to Sobyanin as an achievement. Go to the hospital? I didn’t do this with a perforated ulcer, I went around at home. Yes, alas for us. We here are superfluous, we do not fit into their numbers.
            2. nickname7
              nickname7 29 November 2017 19: 45 New
              +1
              This is not Sobyanin personally doing, this is a liberal course, the Roselites, quick-aid brigades are being liquidated not only in the capital but throughout the Russian Federation.
              1. Overlock
                Overlock 29 November 2017 23: 29 New
                +1
                what is being done in this part throughout Russia, it’s better not to say that there are no nerves. In this case, it was a reindeer breeder
          2. Greenwood
            Greenwood 29 November 2017 16: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: Galleon
            Golovan Jack's post next to this mine is normal
            Funny, honestly.
            Quote: Galleon
            and Greenwood's return bark - a real bark! - 17 likes!
            But this is not funny. Waiting for clarification.
            PS I’m glad that judging by the same likes, there are much more intelligent and sensible people on the site than edrosovskih licking.
      6. Zheleznostop
        Zheleznostop 29 November 2017 20: 44 New
        +1
        To celebrate the dog’s birthday and roll back 2,5 million rubles for the event, it’s not uncommon in Moscow.
      7. lukewarm
        lukewarm 30 November 2017 10: 48 New
        0
        laughing
        Quote: pin_code
        then the extra 15 million include the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members

        The trick is that they are much smaller. If there were 15 million of these, then 2 ways:
        1. we would have long eaten all the bark on the trees and in desperation killed these "conditionally 15"
        2. we would have a different country. these 15 would spend their money somewhere in the end, and something would be different for those around them, then there would be no such terrible bundle.
        The oligarchs - to the masses !!!!
        Threat. It's all a joke
      8. leonid-zherebtcov
        leonid-zherebtcov 30 November 2017 15: 24 New
        0
        I very much agree ..., and it’s time to carefully shake this gang of kudrin and sobyaniny for prevention ..
      9. karabas86
        karabas86 1 December 2017 22: 06 New
        +1
        And so throughout Russia, production is dying.
    2. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 27 November 2017 07: 46 New
      11
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      demand more productivity from people ... pay also more

      Not this way. First work, then salary.
      A familiar fitter on Energy, yeah ... check in the morning, zero-twenty-five forfeits - and - went to work ...
      I would have fired immediately on ...
      1. Greenwood
        Greenwood 27 November 2017 07: 55 New
        19
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        I would have fired immediately on ...
        And who do you work with yourself, huh? Benefit the state? Or do you sit back in the office? "The firing agent"?
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 27 November 2017 07: 59 New
          14
          Quote: Greenwood
          And who do you work with yourself, huh?

          A.
          I work.
          Since there are no normal Russian offices, I’m working at the custodianoff for now ... I’m exactly, the main thing is to do the job.
          A couple of young people are working with me there ... the system administrator is from Vladik (I couldn’t find a closer hike), the guy who TradeX admin is from Baikal ... is also a passing beam, yeah ...
          You tell me how to work correctly .. maybe I’ll listen wink
          1. Greenwood
            Greenwood 27 November 2017 10: 49 New
            17
            Kapets, reading is hard. Someone has the Russian language on both legs.
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            there are no normal Russian offices
            Where did they go? laughing
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            safekeeping
            And this man is trying to taunt people who do not favor power. Patriotic, what.
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            A couple of young people are working with me there ... the system administrator is from Vladik (I couldn’t find a closer hike), the guy who TradeX admin is from Baikal ... is also a passing beam, yeah ...
            I read about admins from Vlad and from Baikal (although I didn’t ask about them). About specifically your work - no. And by the way, you work, I think, in Moscow or Moscow Region, no further.
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            You tell me how to work correctly .. maybe I’ll listen
            I did not hear (did not see) the answer to my question ...
          2. E_V_N
            E_V_N 27 November 2017 11: 40 New
            +9
            Quote: Golovan Jack

            Since there are no normal Russian offices, I’m working at the custodianoff for now ... I’m exactly, the main thing is to do the job.

            There are no normal offices, is this in the sense of less than what the French pay? "I’m exactly, the main thing that they do the thing" must be translated as ... I do not care if they only paid?
        2. faiver
          faiver 27 November 2017 15: 56 New
          +2
          those. plump at work is that normal? laughing
      2. Same lech
        Same lech 27 November 2017 07: 57 New
        +8
        Not this way. First work, then salary.

        I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.
        I made a good, fast and full payment to pay for it as it should at market prices, and not as much as I want and turn it around.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 27 November 2017 09: 34 New
          15
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.

          First you need to find work, this is the most important condition.
          We already remember a certain citizen promised 25 million jobs.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 27 November 2017 09: 44 New
            10
            Quote: Stroporez
            We already remember a certain citizen promised 25 millions of jobs

            Do you really need so many of them?
            Or is one enough for you?
            Zakanivaet already speak for all .. you are nobody, and no way to call.
            I wake up with this, and I say the same thing to myself, yeah yes
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 27 November 2017 10: 04 New
              32
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Zakanivaet already speak for all .. you are nobody, and no way to call.


              Well, to begin with, I'm a Citizen, albeit a tiny one, but part of the People.
              I express my personal opinion, although the citizen's promises were public.
              In the period from 2014 to the 17th, many of my friends lost their business and work ... now they tax at night, but so many taxi drivers are no longer needed, and people simply can’t find another job, it isn’t!

              PS. You can say anything to yourself, but tie up with rudeness on the site, you put yourself in an awkward (soft) position. hi
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 8 December 2017 06: 27 New
                +8
                Quote: Stroporez
                tie with rudeness on the site, you put yourself in an awkward (soft) position

                An example of rudeness is in the studio. Try not to hurt the site’s rules, everything else is your maiden, you know ...
                Quote: Stroporez
                Well, let's start with the fact that I'm a Citizen, albeit tiny, but part of the People

                The keyword is tiny. I didn’t authorize you to speak on my own, for example, and from my friends, relatives, colleagues.
                Speak for yourself ... it's that simple, believe me ...
                Quote: Stroporez
                In the period from 2014 to the 17th, many of my friends lost their business and work ...

                Ah ah ah...
                Quote: Stroporez
                and people simply can’t find another job, it isn’t!

                In "can not" - I believe. In the "no" - sorry, I do not believe.
                People are used to sleeping and camping for a long time. And work, as a rule, requires a certain effort.
                That's the whole story to the penny request
            2. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 27 November 2017 20: 35 New
              0
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Quote: Stroporez
              We already remember a certain citizen promised 25 millions of jobs

              Do you really need so many of them?
              Or is one enough for you?
              Zakanivaet already speak for all .. you are nobody, and no way to call.
              I wake up with this, and I say the same thing to myself, yeah yes

              Don’t pay attention, it’s the Communists, they destroyed RI with a chakushka when the country was in trouble, then with a chakushka p .... whether the Union, to hang out beautifully, didn’t manage to hang out for everyone, that’s why they freak out, but they didn’t know how to work, they don’t know how ....
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 27 November 2017 23: 51 New
                +8
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                Don’t pay attention, it’s the Communists, they destroyed RI with a chakushka when the country felt bad, then with a chakushka p .... is there a Union to hang out beautifully,

                Just without the chakushka. Both in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR there was a prohibition.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                however, for some reason, it was a donor both in the Republic of Ingushetia and in the USSR and now ...

                Deprive you of all blessings, immediately jump out to the square, as in 91.
                1. MOSKVITYANIN
                  MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 07: 24 New
                  +1
                  Mordvin 3 Deprive you of all blessings

                  Announce the list of benefits ....?
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 28 November 2017 08: 53 New
                    +4
                    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                    Announce the list of benefits ....?
                    - for example, supplements to salaries of doctors / teachers, supplements to pensions, transportation, paved roads - which are cleaned in winter 18 000 cars - we have whole 2(a scraper — which is not allowed to clean + water-washing in the city) and even when they clean around the clock — the city is cleaned in a week, not earlier ....
                    1. MOSKVITYANIN
                      MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 19: 53 New
                      +1
                      own1970 for example surcharges to salaries of doctors / teachers, surcharges for pensions

                      These social benefits come from the Moscow budget (why can't the richest region afford it?), and not from the federal ...
                      transportation, paved roads - which are cleaned in winter by 18 000 machines

                      everything is contained and purchased t / s on lease from the budget of Moscow ....
                      we have whole 2 (the scraper — which is not allowed to clean the city + watering) and even when they are cleaned around the clock — the city is cleaned in a week, not earlier ....

                      this is your problem and the Government of the Russian Federation, to hell Moscow, you should give something for free ....
                      1. E_V_N
                        E_V_N 29 November 2017 08: 45 New
                        +6
                        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                        own1970 for example surcharges to salaries of doctors / teachers, surcharges for pensions

                        These social benefits come from the Moscow budget (why can't the richest region afford it?), and not from the federal ...
                        transportation, paved roads - which are cleaned in winter by 18 000 machines

                        everything is contained and purchased t / s on lease from the budget of Moscow ....
                        we have whole 2 (the scraper — which is not allowed to clean the city + watering) and even when they are cleaned around the clock — the city is cleaned in a week, not earlier ....

                        this is your problem and the Government of the Russian Federation, to hell Moscow, you should give something for free ....

                        It is convenient to talk about the budget of Moscow, forcing to register all oil and gas production, as well as industrial production from the regions in Moscow. And what do 25 million Muscovites produce besides hundreds of tons of orders of no interest to anyone, orders, directions, reports? You all pro-production in Moscow have effectively profiled. It was the engineering Mosvich (not so hot what a car) and ZIL well, where are these plants now.
                        You answer a simple question, why does the district doctor in Moscow get 4 more than in Muhosk? Is it that in 4 times smarter or in Muhosk people in 4 times are more simply arranged? Only after that, you can talk about the budget of Moscow.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 29 November 2017 09: 17 New
                        +5
                        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                        everything is contained and purchased t / s on lease from the budget of Moscow ....
                        where does the budget of Moscow come from? What is produced in Moscow? what product - besides the written-up paper in the form of orders / directions / instructions / resolutions? You even did not have large wholesale stores in the city — all in the region.
                        If tomorrow accidentally move the capital to Yekaterinburg / Saratov / Uryupinsk - exactly six months later (after the oil industry / gas industry and the Central Excise Customs + Central Energy leave) Moscow will be an absolutely subsidized city and grandmas from the mall will not save you
                      3. 1Leningrad
                        1Leningrad 30 November 2017 20: 23 New
                        +1
                        Rich in what? The fact that all taxes are consolidated in Moscow and then distributed from the lord's shoulder to the regions.
                  2. Zheleznostop
                    Zheleznostop 29 November 2017 20: 48 New
                    +1
                    The minimum pension is 17000 in Matskwe and 8000 for the rest of Russia.
                    1. MOSKVITYANIN
                      MOSKVITYANIN 1 December 2017 21: 19 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ironstop
                      The minimum pension is 17000 in Matskwe and 8000 for the rest of Russia.

                      When your region ceases to be subsidized, maybe your pension will be bigger, just kidding, your region will always be rogue, because It’s more convenient for you to go to work in the donor region before making your local authorities work for YOU, and not for yourself ...
              2. Dr_engie
                Dr_engie 28 November 2017 18: 38 New
                +5
                Well, yes, it’s the effective managers that built the superpower, not the workers.
              3. Greenwood
                Greenwood 29 November 2017 16: 29 New
                +4
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                Well this is the Communists, they destroyed RI with a chakushka when the country felt bad, then with a chakushka p .... Is the Union to hang out beautifully
                Well, finally, everything became clear. Also, a quote from the movie "almost mastered."
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                they didn’t know how to work, they don’t know how to ....

                You, the capitalists, but know how to work. Buy imported junk on deshman and then sell it for exorbitant prices. Here it is all your work. They squandered what was left of the Communists, piled up offices and shopping centers and sat happy.
        2. E_V_N
          E_V_N 27 November 2017 11: 42 New
          +4
          Quote: The same Lech
          Not this way. First work, then salary.

          I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.
          I made a good, fast and full payment to pay for it as it should at market prices, and not as much as I want and turn it around.

          But I do not agree, getting a job, you should know how much they will pay for the work with your qualifications.
          A competent worker will not work on the principle that you do the work, and then we will decide how much to pay, and whether to pay at all.
        3. Galleon
          Galleon 29 November 2017 12: 47 New
          +1
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          I agree ... it always should be ... but one thing ... the employee has the right to demand decent work for a good job.

          And I agree! But we understand that you offer the ideal, and life and the labor code are offered in a slightly different way: here is the position, workplace, here is the salary. I agree to work - sign and work. I do not agree - no one is holding, the queue is waiting outside the door. Unfortunately so. Having worked and worked, having recommended and waiting for the change of working conditions, you can play for an increase. And just like that ... such cases are not known to me.
      3. Stas157
        Stas157 27 November 2017 10: 04 New
        30
        Quote: Golovan Jack

        A familiar fitter on Energy, yeah ... check in the morning, zero-twenty-five forfeits - and - went to work ...
        I would have fired immediately on ...

        I asked this question, and in practical terms. Why do people with low salaries and hard work break down regularly, that is, drink? Discussed this issue, both with working collectives, and with their chiefs. And he came to an unambiguous conclusion - from hopelessness. It’s very hard to work hard all the time, and not make money at the same time. It is hard to live, seeing the disorder of the family and the inability to improve it, even working in the sweat. Alcohol here acts as a lubricant, a kind of outlet, an opportunity to forget for a while about your heavy burden. Unfortunately, this social phenomenon is systemic in our country.
        Layoffs in this case do not really help, because in their place come the same, for obvious reasons, to the above-described reasons.
        1. nickname7
          nickname7 29 November 2017 20: 06 New
          0
          There is no direct correlation between salary and food, and they drink with large salaries. Is it not enough to earn and drink the last crumbs, so that the family gets even less? Rave. Stupidity, this, attributed alcoholism to certain difficulties, asking the alkonaut why he drinks, even greater stupidity, because he has a chemical addiction.
      4. Trotil42
        Trotil42 27 November 2017 18: 30 New
        +2
        And you pay him as much as he receives the same locksmith, say in the USA ... you won’t believe what kind of queue you will have for this position .. you will have to carry out casting ... we’ll come over ... and for now you don’t want to do it, run off for him checkmark ... at first not work and not a salary ... think for yourself what you write ... first social. guarantees..insurance..pensions..etc .... .... the family of the deceased major in Syria was paid 1 mil.rub .... i.e. 18 thousand tanks ... there is a family left ... children .. old people .. they need ... here and think ... is it worth it? so run ... you have such a fate ...
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 27 November 2017 20: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: Trotil42
          And you pay him as much as he receives the same locksmith, say in the USA ... you won’t believe what kind of queue you will have for this position .. you will have to carry out casting ... we’ll come over ... and for now you don’t want to do it, run off for him checkmark ... at first not work and not a salary ... think for yourself what you write ... first social. guarantees..insurance..pensions..etc .... .... the family of the deceased major in Syria was paid 1 mil.rub .... i.e. 18 thousand tanks ... there is a family left ... children .. old people .. they need ... here and think ... is it worth it? so run ... you have such a fate ...

          And you find him a buyer of his products for dollars at a price like in the USA, then he will pay ....
          1. Trotil42
            Trotil42 29 November 2017 06: 17 New
            +2
            In our country, this simply is not possible ... it simply does not need the ruling elite ... if there is raw materials and excess energy, it’s cheap enough (hydro) ... super cheap skilled labor ... the likelihood of solving the problem as a locksmith increases ... and this is the ruling elite understands (the creation of the Russian Guard with the purchase of attack helicopters and flamethrowers .... a fried appetizer fitter) .... well .. how to raise labor productivity .. if 22 mil .. Russians have no income equal to the cost of living ... which means not replenishment of labor costs to a person ... by laboring he loses more .. actually this is genocide ...
          2. E_V_N
            E_V_N 29 November 2017 08: 50 New
            +5
            [quote = MOSKVITYANIN] [/ quote]
            And you find him a buyer of his products for dollars at a price like in the USA, then he will pay ... [/ quote]
            And then what are you effective Moscow managers doing? Why not looking for profitable markets? Clever, do you release products, find a buyer, sell, and give money to the Moscow budget for your salary and beautiful Moscow life?
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 29 November 2017 20: 15 New
              0
              [quote = E_V_N] [quote = MOSKVITYANIN] [/ quote]
              And you find him a buyer of his products for dollars at a price like in the USA, then he will pay ... [/ quote]
              And then what are you effective Moscow managers doing? Why not looking for profitable markets? Clever, you let out production, find a buyer, sell, and give money to the budget of Moscow, for your salary and beautiful Moscow life? [/ Quote]
              I’m not an effective manager once, and secondly, I’m not forcing you to register your almshouse in your city for two ....
              [quote] Smart, you release products, find a buyer, sell [/ quote]
              no one forces you to do business against your will, and even more so in Moscow, she used to live quietly without you and will live without you for 100 years ....
              1. E_V_N
                E_V_N 30 November 2017 09: 29 New
                +2
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN

                no one forces you to do business against your will, and even more so in Moscow, she used to live quietly without you and will live without you for 100 years ....

                Unfortunately, Moscow did not live without people like me, it does not live and cannot live. And, unfortunately, without my will Moscow forces her darling to work for her, constantly increasing the share of deductions in her favor.
    3. Finches
      Finches 27 November 2017 08: 24 New
      14
      Sobyanin - I wanted to say something clever, but my vocabulary was not enough, so I blurted out! But he is still far from Dmitry Anatolyevich's pearls ... laughing
      1. Ami du peuple
        Ami du peuple 27 November 2017 09: 14 New
        +8
        Quote: Finches
        Sobyanin - I wanted to say something smart, but my vocabulary was not enough
        But deer will appreciate its vocabulary. Sobyanin must be sent back to the tundra, however. yes
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Ami du peuple
            Ami du peuple 27 November 2017 09: 23 New
            +2
            Sergei Semenovich is not a Chukchi, however. He mal-mal mansi is laughing
            1. Finches
              Finches 27 November 2017 09: 26 New
              +4
              Horseradish radish is not sweeter ... laughing "We will go, we will rush, On deer in the early morning ..."
              1. Ami du peuple
                Ami du peuple 27 November 2017 09: 38 New
                +5
                Quote: Finches
                "We will go, we will rush, On deer in the early morning ..."
                ... and seventeen times raise labor productivity! Ehei! laughing
      2. Pax tecum
        Pax tecum 27 November 2017 11: 12 New
        +8
        But he almost repeated the phrase "they did not fit into the market" ...
        1. Pax tecum
          Pax tecum 27 November 2017 11: 42 New
          19
          Many remembered the red rat with his “What are you worried about these people? Well, thirty million will die out. They did not fit into the market. Do not think about it - new ones will grow” 
          More copyright "pearls":
          “There’s nothing wrong with the fact that some of the pensioners will die out, but the society will become more mobile”
          “I re-read all of Dostoevsky, and now I don’t feel anything for this person except physical hatred. When I see in his books the thoughts that the Russian people are a special people, God's chosen people, I want to tear them to pieces. ” 

          And this is only a small fraction of everything said by the "elitists" about Russia and the Russians. Yes, I don’t advise reading again, otherwise the nerves are not iron ...
          And, after all bastards with impunity carry nonsense!
          And, impunity is the basis of permissiveness. Permissiveness from government bodies.
          Then give the legislative apparatus of coercion the so-called "civil society", i.e. Us. Then the concept of “order” will acquire full-fledged meaning and logic, and moral and ethical foundations will prevail over ignorance and permissiveness.

          Well, and how after this there is no desire to tear this pseudo-elite to pieces ?!
          When will this chaos of impunity cease? Or is it just gaining momentum, apparently? ..
          1. passing
            passing 27 November 2017 13: 35 New
            +9
            Well, and how after this there is no desire to tear this pseudo-elite to pieces ?!
            When will this chaos of impunity cease? Or is it just gaining momentum, apparently? ..

            and you think why we are hammered into the brains every day, that power cannot be expelled, it’s necessary to watch shitfully everything that happened in Ukraine.
            At this time, money is flowing abroad and there is only one logical explanation for this — every crook understands that he is a crook and instinctively hides the stolen one. What if they catch, remove from office, etc. At this time, people are poor
      3. Trotil42
        Trotil42 29 November 2017 06: 22 New
        0
        He told the truth ... 22 mil. people in the Russian Federation have an income below the subsistence level .. they do not compensate for their labor costs .. easier genocide of the people ... but it would be necessary to increase productivity ... to faster ...
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. activator
      activator 27 November 2017 11: 07 New
      +3
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I really don’t like it ... the control of the authorities over a person’s personal life takes on a total character ... you will not be left alone.

      Yes, there is such a thing in Russia, either under the pretext of combating terrorism. And recently, Peter Belgorod rode the bus so twice the traffic cops or whatever you call them, checked the passenger passports. They don’t really need the driver’s documents anymore, but the passengers, yes, the second time, is there a question for citizens of other countries? suddenly Gaster without docks. For the first time I came across this and it somehow annoys.
      The guys working in Poland on a monolith said that two hours after the deck was poured, everything necessary was put on concrete. This is where performance comes from, but they cost a lot of money, but a screwdriver should be screwed onto the forehead of a hard worker, so that it would plow around the clock much cheaper.
    6. ando_bor
      ando_bor 27 November 2017 11: 41 New
      0
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      we worked as Stakhanovites and received as blacks in South Africa in the last century

      In the last century, blacks in South Africa earned more than we did when we worked as Stakhanovites,
      Only in this century the blacks overtook: https://www.google.ru/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bnc
      ppjof8f9_ & met_y = ny_gdp_pcap_cd & idim = count
      ry: RUS: CHN & hl = ru & dl = ru #! ctype = l & strai
      l = false & bcs = d & nselm = h & met_y = ny_gdp_pc
      ap_pp_cd & scale_y = lin & ind_y = false & rdim
      = region & idim = country: RUS: CHN: UKR: ZAF & ifdi
      m = region & tstart = 698792400000 & tend = 1424638
      800000 & hl = ru & dl = ru & ind = false
    7. Trotil42
      Trotil42 27 November 2017 15: 50 New
      +3
      I confirm ... for 1 dol. The USA the Russian worker received on a salary makes 4 times more than the Americans ... we would have to eat plenty ... who in the USA gets into the shuttle
      1. Trotil42
        Trotil42 27 November 2017 16: 00 New
        +8
        into the mine for 1 thousand bucks for 400 meters deep .. while the mine is explosive in methane? and they’re not being developed in the world ... and 1 thousand bucks is a vice of poverty .. who will mine gold and diamonds in Yakutia for 1.5 thousand bucks .. at minus 60 degrees? budget and doggie problems are solved simply by economic growth ... Moscow driver growth? Moscow and the Moscow region are the biggest debtors to the budget .. If there is growth, then corruption and theft ...
    8. Svarog
      Svarog 27 November 2017 18: 19 New
      +9
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      so that we work like Stakhanovites and get like blacks

      With this power, we will soon be slaves, not in a figurative but in the literal sense. These are already far from reality, they have it of their own and we are slaves in their reality.
    9. The comment was deleted.
    10. Cadet
      Cadet 28 November 2017 04: 48 New
      +3
      The Muscovite’s labor productivity is 5–7 times higher than that of a rural worker, for which I did not notice the endless fields sown with wheat or corn in the capital. At one time, a sister in the Tyumen region added agriculture, so they tried to pull everything into the regional center.
    11. Severok
      Severok 29 November 2017 14: 30 New
      0
      Sobyanin is one of those who pursues a policy of consistent genocide and absolute control of the entire population of Russia by the authorities. What happens: rural residents are less dependent on banking services, digitalization is not necessary for them, network trading organizations cannot get anything from them, you can’t drive the village under video control, you can’t imagine substandard products. Thus, people living in rural areas are more independent from the authorities, they are difficult to control.

      Rural residents are freer than city dwellers, chained to a wheelbarrow of work with banks hanging on their necks, with an ass sitting in a cool car that everyone is watching.
    12. Victorio
      Victorio 1 December 2017 22: 34 New
      0
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Like salary ... you demand more productivity from people ... pay also bige.

      --
      productivity is much more dependent on organization and technology than on salary
  2. Vikxnumx
    Vikxnumx 27 November 2017 07: 20 New
    17
    And this body has not yet gone to the presidency?
    The program is already ready!
    1. Herculesic
      Herculesic 27 November 2017 07: 39 New
      +9
      So he himself will appoint a receiver-remember forever awake your forecast when it becomes at the helm of the country-the steering wheel will jam quickly and tightly.
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 27 November 2017 07: 47 New
        22
        if they "dig", then they will find many more "extra" people. The State Duma rejected the bill to restore indexation of pensions to all working pensioners, citing a lack of funds to finance its implementation.
        Currently, there are 43 million pensioners in Russia, of which about a third (about 14 million) are working.
        For reference:
        Now the official income of the State Duma deputies is about 400 thousand rubles per month. This indicator is 13 times higher than the average salary of ordinary Russians. It is noteworthy that in the USA the salary of a deputy is more than the national average by 3 times, in Germany - this figure is doubled.
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich 27 November 2017 08: 17 New
          17
          Quote: Dead Day
          Now the official income of the State Duma deputies is about 400 thousand rubles per month. This indicator is 13 times higher than the average salary of ordinary Russians. It is noteworthy that in the USA the salary of a deputy is more than the national average by 3 times, in Germany - this figure is doubled.

          good
          Our state has found an excellent indicator by which we can equalize the standard of living. I'm talking about "bruising." It is called "average wage." As it is calculated, only God knows. Although the slogans for "papitsot" have already changed to "thousand." Country average wage on snout wassat For a thousand American candy wrappers in equivalent. And now we believe that the average salary in the country according to Belstat is somewhere in the region of 650-700 rubles. This is about 300-350 American rubles. As you can see, it does not even reach the notorious "five hundred". So these figures are more likely for the slogan and gloss over the eyes of the people. Now we have a joke about cabbage rolls. If the boss eats meat, and the rest subordinates cabbage (1 to 100 ratio), then on average everyone eats stuffed cabbage! And in order to raise the national average, they raise salaries, not just simple hard workers, but only shirts. As a result, the average is growing !!!! Voila laughing Miracles and only what
          1. Dr_engie
            Dr_engie 28 November 2017 18: 45 New
            +1
            Unfortunately, about cabbage rolls - this is such a bearded joke) in Russia for at least a year since 2001 I hear)
            1. Rurikovich
              Rurikovich 28 November 2017 18: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Dr_Engie
              about stuffed cabbage - this is such a bearded joke) in Russia for at least a year since 2001 I hear)

              I don’t argue. It’s just that it’s very suitable for our realities and is in demand among the people yes request
        2. Glory1974
          Glory1974 27 November 2017 10: 47 New
          15
          Now the official income of the State Duma deputies is about 400 thousand rubles per month.

          You have old data. 800 thousand deputy salary. They are all right with labor productivity.
        3. E_V_N
          E_V_N 27 November 2017 11: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: Dead Day

          Currently, there are 43 million pensioners in Russia, of which about a third (about 14 million) are working.

          Of the 43 million pensioners, about 27 million are “pre-term workers” (the military, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the prosecutor’s office, the Investigative Committee, judges, teachers, kindergartens, deputies, officials and others). Moreover, these categories retire on a special law, as a result of receiving a pension several times more than pensioners who left on a common basis in 55-60 years.
          1. your1970
            your1970 27 November 2017 16: 25 New
            +1
            cross off officials - we have a pension officially with 65
            1. E_V_N
              E_V_N 29 November 2017 09: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: your1970
              cross off officials - we have a pension officially with 65

              Are you serious? Have you forgotten that you leave after 15 years of civil service and even according to a separate law? Or did you write about 65 years and you think that no one understood anything? And then, at 59, settle down as a janitor, retire and do not deny yourself anything, only the officials don’t need it, their retirement pension is 40 years old, tens of times more than the “hard worker” from a factory that worked for 40 years production.
              1. your1970
                your1970 29 November 2017 09: 32 New
                +1
                Quote: E_V_N
                Cross off officials - we have officially retired from 65
                Are you serious? Have you forgotten that you leave after 15 years of civil service and even according to a separate law? Or did you write about 65 years and you think that no one understood anything? And then, at 59, settle down as a janitor, retire and do not deny yourself anything, only the officials don’t need it, their retirement pension is 40 years old, tens of times more than the “hard worker” from a factory that worked for 40 years production.

                1) according to the decree of the payment of a pension that has entered into force, only from 65 years on with civil servants
                2) a length of service of 15 years is necessary at the age of 65 years - to receive a pension. There will be no 15 years to 65 years - there will be no pension
                3)their length of service pension at the age of 40 - such NO with civil servants. Either you were jumped over by the military / Ministry of Internal Affairs / prosecutor’s office, or you just didn’t understand who you were writing about
                4) a pension of at least 90% of civil servants is 8–9–12 maximum (from the level of the department head). Yes, there is more, but this is the level of heads / deputies of regional administrations - and there are no more than 000 - 2 of them throughout the country

                Z. I am an ordinary civil servant, born in 1970, with a length of service in 28 years (including military and customs) and me before receiving pensions of approximately 11 left 15 years - and I am immensely happy belay belay belay from this (there were already bans for the mat)

                Z.Y. you or not in the subject absolutely, or just blurt out, just to blurt out
                1. E_V_N
                  E_V_N 30 November 2017 09: 38 New
                  0
                  Quote: your1970

                  Z.Y. you or not in the subject absolutely, or just blurt out, just to blurt out

                  You are offended in vain, you simply did not carefully read it initially, you consider each official to be a civil servant, but I said about those ... from the "list". And if you do not want to work before 65, quit and retire from the position of a non-civil servant. What is the problem?
          2. Cossack 471
            Cossack 471 27 November 2017 22: 55 New
            +3
            EVN Where did such data on military pensions come from? I’m a major of service for 21 years with the Nordic pension of 16 thousand. Yes, I retired early but did not lie on the couch. and "doubled the GDP" of the country. But what kind of product do Muscovites produce besides banking?
            1. E_V_N
              E_V_N 29 November 2017 09: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Cossack 471
              EVN Where did such data on military pensions come from? I’m a major of service for 21 years with the Nordic pension of 16 thousand. Yes, I retired early but did not lie on the couch. and "doubled the GDP" of the country. But what kind of product do Muscovites produce besides banking?

              Well, here you are, you have retired 19 + 21 = 40 years, a pension of 16 thousand. My aunt at 55 years old with 35 years of experience on a lathe has a pension of 9, graduate 500 times less. But you are 2 years old still full of energy to "double the GDP", and she has no strength left.
              I don’t want to personally offend you, I believe that you honestly served in the “north”, but only you have hundreds of thousands of officers who saw the machine only in the pictures, but they also retire after 25 years. And at the Ministry of Internal Affairs, he had been sending pieces of paper to a 20-year-old friend in the personnel department, and at 42, he retired as a lieutenant colonel in retirement of 25 thousand. Wife's friend, head teacher 53 years old, retired 12 years, pension 17 thousand, salary head teacher 60 thousand
              1. Galleon
                Galleon 29 November 2017 13: 02 New
                +1
                Quote: E_V_N
                besides you there are still hundreds of thousands of machine gun officers only in the pictures who saw

                It's just some kind of darkness. Do you think that you developed all operations and strikes in Syria, a strategy of action, spun the "Syrian express", flew on airplanes and coordinated these missions and missiles, were engaged in reconnaissance of all kinds - officers with machine guns in their hands? For one officer with a machine gun in his hands there are several officers whose weapon is a communications device, a tablet, a helm or an electronic means. The topic is very emotional, but still pull yourself together - start thinking.
                1. E_V_N
                  E_V_N 30 November 2017 09: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Galleon
                  For one officer with a machine gun in his hands there are several officers whose weapon is a communications device, a tablet, a helm or an electronic means. The topic is very emotional, but still pull yourself together - start thinking.

                  Remember Sharapova, "I haven’t eaten up at the food warehouse during the whole war." So I’m talking about this. I served and still never understood, and I don’t understand why the head of some kind of food warehouse or the modern "talking head" also retires after 25 years like an officer in the army. Why the titles are awarded not according to their deserts, but according to the "length of service", and the troops "fly" many times more than in the warehouse.
                  1. Galleon
                    Galleon 4 December 2017 10: 22 New
                    +1
                    Quote: E_V_N
                    I served and still never understood, and I don’t understand why the head of some kind of food warehouse or the modern "talking head" also retires after 25 years like an officer in the army. Why the titles are awarded not according to their deserts, but according to the "length of service", and the troops "fly" many times more than in the warehouse.

                    In something I warmly agree with you, but in some I want to object. How many officers will you meet in warehouses that you would like to see among your comrades? Well, if a person in his warehouse does not reach the combat officer, and there is a hunt to serve, let him serve where he can. Not this way? Warehouses are also different: in addition to food and clothing there are arsenals where sloppiness is not permissible at all and the quality of the chief is needed, like that of the commandant or chief of a guardhouse (just kidding a bit). As for the awarding of military ranks - I agree with you entirely. There was a swimming qualification in the navy under the tsar - at least kill yourself, but you won’t get the next rank if you didn’t swim the number of nautical miles laid down for him. Therefore, they drove the boats in the tail and in the mane, being alternately in two states: at sea or at home. But a new government came that needed bureaucrats and party members, not professionals. The censorship was canceled, the careerists didn’t get in the way, and after 20 years we had such personnel as Tributs, and the ships go out to sea only by force and rarely complete tasks or carry out exercises. And so everything is at the wall or at anchor.
          3. Cadet
            Cadet 28 November 2017 04: 51 New
            +1
            Sorry for the question, here is an example - the police colonel spent his entire service in his office retiring and receives twice as much as a simple tractor driver or a milkmaid two or sometimes three times?
            1. your1970
              your1970 28 November 2017 08: 12 New
              +2
              Quote: Cadet
              Sorry for the question, here is an example - the police colonel spent his entire service in his office retiring and receives twice as much as a simple tractor driver or a milkmaid two or sometimes three times?
              - the difference in responsibility. A simple tractor driver can maximize your tractor - a simple police colonel can ruin the rule of law in the whole village / city / district / region / region ...
              For this they pay for responsibility, for this they ask
              1. Dr_engie
                Dr_engie 28 November 2017 18: 46 New
                +2
                Well, they are asking something from all those responsible so-so ...
                1. your1970
                  your1970 29 November 2017 09: 52 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Dr_Engie
                  Well, they are asking something from all those responsible so-so ...
                  -And they strongly ask the tractor driver who ditched the tractor ahead of time? There’s nothing to take from him, he’s usually a goal like a falcon ...

                  did you forget the 90s, when did you shoot in large numbers on the streets of brothers / businessmen? And the fact that now there is none of this is one of the merits of the police.
                  About the inadequacy of the contingent, a separate song
                  An acquaintance served on duty. Call:
                  - on duty ......
                  - I was now in the Soviet blonde in the ass gave me !!!
                  - Well, they say, it happens!
                  - you do not understand, she gave me in the BACK !!!
                  - Well?
                  - Yes, why are you there, drunk or something ??? she gave me in the BACK !!!
                  He was offended - he made a complaint, checking and nerve-racking, six months before retirement. Naturally, they didn’t punish him - the woman drove into the complainant’s car, only in words - he could tell him a little to clarify the matter only five minutes later. Judging by the Internet, a fairly common story is practically literally. And this is a mild form of not quite adequate ..
                  Practically in every district department there are a couple of three clients - who, when they are closed, start to spoil and throw products at the employees, at the same time coating themselves. Moreover, they usually spoil them like volcanoes - for a long time.
                  And any head of the regional department — the colonel, went through this too ...
              2. E_V_N
                E_V_N 29 November 2017 09: 30 New
                0
                [quote = self1970difference in responsibility. A simple tractor driver can maximize your tractor - a simple police colonel can ruin the rule of law in the whole village / city / district / region / region ...
                For this they pay for responsibility, for this they ask [/ quote]
                Excuse me, the question was not asked about responsibility and salary, but about the pension for which the colonel leaves at age 45, receives 3 times more pennies than a tractor driver who worked up to 60. And at the same time, they have the same “responsibility” for retirement, that's just the strength and health at 45 (in the office) and 60 (on the tractor) are very different.
    2. antivirus
      antivirus 27 November 2017 08: 01 New
      +7
      Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.

      V. Alekverov withdraws his Lukoil to the Smolensk region and Moscow becomes "the capital with a regional fate"
      Sobyanin helps friends of GDP (to earn) - receivers can put forward
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 27 November 2017 08: 16 New
        10
        Quote: antivirus
        Sobyanin

        Никто.
        Quote: antivirus
        helps friends GDP

        Schazz
        antivirus
        Not anti laughing
    3. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 27 November 2017 09: 22 New
      +4
      Quote: VIK1711
      And this body has not yet gone to the presidency?

      The one now is the same.
      Quote: VIK1711
      The program is already ready!

      The program is not only ready, it is already running.
  3. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 27 November 2017 07: 27 New
    +9
    But let it attract more Caucasians to Moscow. The Russians are a burden to him there.
  4. Nonna
    Nonna 27 November 2017 07: 34 New
    30
    The reindeer herder follows the path of his leader, Margaret Thatcher. Toy generally wanted to reduce the natives of Russia to 15 million. Moscow is a parasite on the body of Russia, a bunch of officials-bugs, liberal rot, a bunch of downshifters of all stripes from Gref, Kudrin, Chubais and this father of all the guest workers Sobyanov’s Don’t run Russia
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 29 November 2017 06: 36 New
      0
      To begin with, Margaret Thatcher said nothing of the kind.
  5. Herculesic
    Herculesic 27 November 2017 07: 37 New
    10
    So send a saber to increase labor productivity wherever it is in the Kolyma mines, or even at a bonded sawmill.
  6. Alex_59
    Alex_59 27 November 2017 07: 44 New
    18
    So, labor productivity in the country is low, according to the deep conviction of the Moscow official, due to the presence of "conditionally superfluous" people. There are no “extra" people in Moscow, everyone works like bees and ants, but there are people in the village.
    Unfortunately it is. This is not a matter of the Gaidar economy, but in common sense. In Soviet times, remote villages were created not simply because “oh, let's settle the people here”, but there was economic expediency in this. Forest to mine. Or coal. Or something else. In those technological conditions, this made sense and there was a benefit. And now much has changed, just humanity has taken a step forward in terms of technology development. And now the old infrastructure with the towns serving it has become unprofitable. Why is there a village in a dense forest? What is there that people should do useful. And in agriculture, too - what a crowd of collective farmers used to do now is making a combine harvester from an air-conditioned cabin with the help of a joystick. And what will those people now do that used to feed a crowd of collective farmers, sheared, clothed, clothed, transported? Nothing to do with it. Because now it is not necessary to feed, cut and dress so much - the combine is now one, and not a hundred people with a pitchfork. These processes did not begin yesterday. So Sobyanin is right in this sense. And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.
    Another question is that this is all secondary. It is not visible that our Sobyanins saw our main problem - technological lag. We have practically killed high-tech production and nobody thinks how to raise it - this is the “invisible hand of the market" that private capital itself should force to stop carrying Chinese consumer goods and start producing iPhones. Although protectionism and technology purchase are flourishing all over the world - even Stalin bought everything that he reached in the 30-s, and all this in a processed form gave a technological explosion in the form of the first man in space and the atomic bomb. But ours think that they are smarter ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 27 November 2017 08: 10 New
      +7
      We have practically killed high-tech production and no one thinks how to raise it - this is the “invisible hand of the market" that private capital itself must force to stop carrying Chinese consumer goods and start producing iPhones.

      I would add precisely the production of civilian products ... televisions, computers, refrigerators, etc., etc.
      By and large, the country has not yet gotten off the raw material needle ... selling its resources to the right and left ... what
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2017 08: 24 New
        +8
        Quote: The same LYOKHA
        I would add precisely the production of civilian products ... televisions, computers, refrigerators, etc., etc.

        Yes, with the military, too, not all thank God. What the robot collects in the West, we often (but not always of course) collect a crowd of craftsmen with screwdrivers, as it was in the 80 (in the 80, “they” had it too, their robots appeared later, and we do not really). What is characteristic - ours flies no worse, and sometimes better, than them, assembled by robots. But it still does not give rise to joy. The manufacturer now pays ten collectors a salary of 25 thousand rubles. And he could pay a hundredth to one operator, and also, as we see, put something in his pocket. But then nine masters have to go somewhere else to work and change their qualifications ... Yes, and the manufacturer should not invest feeble in a new assembly production ...
        Well, that’s the reasonable question - who should provide all this? The state helps poorly. The process of retraining is debugged according to the same ancient patterns that were in Soviet times. Do you want this business to pull itself? Well, make them a tax break, give them loans at 0,5% on the condition that they use all this at 1) a radical modernization of production, 2) retraining of workers. And you will be productivity. But in our country, the state cannot intervene. In our country, the "invisible hand" must correct something there ...
        1. Cadet
          Cadet 28 November 2017 18: 00 New
          +1
          Are you sure that the operator will be paid a hundred, yeah, now
      2. APIS
        APIS 27 November 2017 13: 43 New
        +8
        By and large, the country has not yet gotten off the raw material needle ... selling its resources to the right and left ...

        That's just not got off. Low labor productivity because the farmer takes all the crops in the vine for a penny without making any money from storage or processing. Then outbid in the markets and show "high labor productivity", even taking into account the fact that a huge part of the crop goes to landfill.
        And the mayor of the capital tells about high labor productivity, in which Tajiks clean the entrances with homemade mops, scoops are made from cut-off cans, and garbage is taken out in prams.
    2. SPLV
      SPLV 27 November 2017 08: 29 New
      25
      Quote: Alex_59
      And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.

      Of course, damned. The rest of the population of Russia. Give the person in the hinterland a salary in the capital, and we will work. I understand that the manager in Moscow is poor, works for the crummy 100 of thousands, is trying. My niece in Moscow, a hairdresser, gets five times more than an engineer in our factory. And in our province, loafers do not want to work for whole 10 or even 20. Here are the bastards! To rubber them! Let them learn how to work. For 30. And then for less. Sobyanin thinks all about people. About Muscovites. Still, the deputies of souls on 200-300 serfs. And the 500 Sobyanin. And then Mascva will heal. And you can also bring slaves from Africa if there are not enough local ones. How did you get the Moscow workaholics in pink glasses. Good life? Come to our rural schools for seven to ten thousand, you can work in the field, in the forest. And when you see working conditions, it’s just a squeak and a squeal that you need to pay ten times more for such work. The poor you are unhappy in your warm offices, you don’t know how easy and joyful it is in the fresh air, to clear a forest in a minus 30 forest or at a construction site for 15-20 thousand. Happiness to you!
      1. avt
        avt 27 November 2017 08: 48 New
        +6
        Quote: SPLV
        Give the person in the hinterland a salary in the capital, and we will work.

        Yes, nichrome people like you will not work! Just like the maydaunas in Kiev, who crawled out for visa-free travel and a salary of 5000 euros here and now. Just like those who have fled to
        Quote: SPLV
        damn. The rest of the population of Russia.

        And they hang out for the most part, blowing dust in the eyes of relatives from the homeland. So you clap on them, on your newly-born mascavists with envy
        Quote: SPLV
        My niece in Moscow, a hairdresser, gets five times more than an engineer in our factory.
        Yes, they also sleep on a weekly basis at the facilities, but the main song is the same - here you pay more, then I won’t thump on the shift and cut sober circles around the guarded object at night with a watch so that it’s no worse than Karatsupa at the border.
        Quote: SPLV
        The poor you are unhappy in your warm offices, you don’t know how easy and joyful it is in the fresh air, to clear a forest in a minus 30 forest or at a construction site for 15-20 thousand

        Is the engineer himself a forest lying in a field on a tractor at a construction site?
        Quote: SPLV
        I wish you happiness!

        Yes, and the same to you, but in double size, which others sincerely desire. Well, Moscow was really fanned to disgrace by killing perhaps more than half of the real production and science, with the replacement of empty shopping centers.
      2. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2017 09: 16 New
        +4
        Quote: SPLV
        Give the person in the hinterland a salary in the capital, and we will work.
        You won’t. I’ve seen such people - “first provide me with the conditions, and then I’ll earn kaaaak, wow!” You won’t. Those who wanted to work for a long time already and do not expect that someone will provide them with something.
        Quote: SPLV
        The poor you are unhappy in your warm offices, you don’t know how easy and joyful it is in the fresh air, to clear a forest in a minus 30 forest or at a construction site for 15-20 thousand

        Honestly, I don’t know where the forest is mined for 20 thousand. Now there ZP not lower than 50-60. People work on the John Deere technique, you won’t put Vaska the tractor driver there. And I do not need to feel sorry, I sleep for 4 hours, work is not measured.
        1. E_V_N
          E_V_N 27 November 2017 12: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Alex_59

          Honestly, I don’t know where the forest is mined for 20 thousand. Now there ZP not lower than 50-60. People work on the John Deere technique, you won’t put Vaska the tractor driver there. And I do not need to feel sorry, I sleep for 4 hours, work is not measured.

          And will you go down the forest for 50, or is it still more comfortable in Moscow warm?
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 27 November 2017 14: 07 New
            +2
            Quote: E_V_N
            And will you go down the forest for 50, or is it still more comfortable in Moscow warm?

            I’m not in Moscow, I’m 1500 km from her and I don’t want to go to Moscow))) And in general, what do I have to do with it? Everyone chooses what he considers acceptable. I won’t go to mine for another reason. For the same reason I do not want to go to Moscow.
            1. E_V_N
              E_V_N 29 November 2017 09: 33 New
              0
              Quote: Alex_59
              Everyone chooses what he considers acceptable. I won’t go to mine for another reason. For the same reason I do not want to go to Moscow.

              Unfortunately, basically, we are not vibrating, but life circumstances are “choosing” for us.
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 10: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: Alex_59
      Another question is that this is all secondary.

      I think no. Labor productivity is growing, and the population scattered throughout the country over a vast territory is forcing huge amounts of money to spend on infrastructure. In fact, this is all a relic of an agrarian society with low labor productivity, when a peasant with a horse plowed the land. It is necessary to accelerate urbanization and make a state program for this. This will save a lot of money, raise the standard of living of the population.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2017 10: 43 New
        +6
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        It is necessary to accelerate urbanization and make a state program for this. This will save a lot of money, raise the standard of living of the population.

        True, but again - this is secondary. This is a consequence. What’s primary? Primarily - for what purpose do we need this urbanization. No one needs urbanization for the sake of urbanization. And we need a technological breakthrough. Those. a situation should be created when it suddenly becomes profitable to develop and manufacture an iPhone not with the USA and China, but with us. And now this situation will create the conditions for additional urbanization - for all this we need the brains and hands that are in the countryside (youth!) But the trouble is that our Sobyanin does not need his iPhone. They need to create visibility for the rating (skolkovo), but in essence they can still carry everything from China - it's cheaper. Of course cheaper - it’s such an invisible hand of the market. Only the Chinese do not have an invisible hand, they do it cheaply and efficiently not because of an invisible hand, but because they so consciously decided to do it. For example, give your business loans at 0%. Of course they are cheaper when the Russians have the same loans at 15-20%. Well, etc. In general, the urbanization program should be closely linked to the intentions to begin to do something high-tech. Then that makes sense.
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 11: 00 New
          +3
          Quote: Alex_59
          No one needs urbanization for the sake of urbanization.

          Naturally. It should free up funds that can be used to solve the problems of the state. It should increase the standard of living of the population, concentrate working hands near production, and reduce logistics loads.
          Quote: Alex_59
          Those. a situation should be created when it suddenly becomes profitable to develop and manufacture an iPhone not with the USA and China, but with us. And now this situation will create the conditions for additional urbanization

          And these conditions are already there. And urbanization should just give the opportunity to move our industry at least slightly.
          Quote: Alex_59
          In general, the urbanization program should be closely linked to the intentions to begin to do something high-tech. Then that makes sense.

          This and so today makes sense. You just take an interest in statistics. How many people live in rural areas and how many work in the agricultural sector. There is a very big difference. And small cities are largely unpromising, the growth of labor productivity in industrial production leads to the fact that they also become unprofitable. If you previously needed a bunch of milling machines, now the CNC machine replaces them all. And now one factory makes more products than the old three.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 27 November 2017 14: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And these conditions are already there.

            If these conditions existed, we would have at least in the form of startups our own projects of this kind. There would be attempts. The business would try to make money on it. But I see the lines behind iPhones and the counters littered with Samsung and Xiaomi. And there are no conditions for our own development and production - nifiga.
          2. E_V_N
            E_V_N 29 November 2017 10: 04 New
            +1
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            And small cities are largely unpromising, the growth of labor productivity in industrial production leads to the fact that they also become unprofitable. If you previously needed a bunch of milling machines, now the CNC machine replaces them all. And now one factory makes more products than the old three.

            Understand urbanization is not a cause, but a consequence. Build a city for 20 million people, but if there are no jobs there, no one will ever go there. In order for people to flock to one place (urbanize), you must first build a large, highly profitable production, with good working conditions and high salaries.
            Regarding the "small cities" you contradict yourself. In small towns, all industries are closed, so they are "unpromising." You’re talking about high logistics costs, well, let’s bring all 140 million of the population to “greater Moscow”, and abandon the rest of the territory or give it to the Chinese, so what? It’s just that all production has been withdrawn from Moscow, there are offices and “institutes” left, where did you decide to produce iPhones?
        2. E_V_N
          E_V_N 29 November 2017 09: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: Alex_59
          And we need a technological breakthrough. Those. a situation should be created when it suddenly becomes profitable to develop and manufacture an iPhone not with the USA and China, but with us. And now this situation will create the conditions for additional urbanization - for all this you need the brains and hands that are in the countryside (youth!) ..... but in fact you can still carry everything from China - it's cheaper. Of course cheaper - it’s such an invisible hand of the market. Only the Chinese do not have an invisible hand, they do it cheaply and efficiently not because of an invisible hand, but because they so consciously decided to do it. For example, give your business loans at 0%. Of course they are cheaper when the Russians have the same loans at 15-20%. .... closely linked to intentions to start doing something of their own high-tech.

          Suddenly nothing happens, and there will never be a situation when suddenly your iPhone becomes profitable. You probably don’t remember the 90s when “electronics from China” was sold per kilogram, turned on right on the market, it doesn’t work, they threw it into the basket and took another thing, you open the case, and there it is so crookedly soldered, everything is in snot. 15 years of focused work were spent on “pulling” production to China and raising the technological level. In principle, China does not supply any minerals abroad, only products. And we have? You correctly said that absolutely no one needs production of high-tech products. 20 years talking about their own operating system, so where is it? but in China there. Have you heard about the story of the Russian processor "Everest"? No one needs their own processor.
          But about loans, I do not agree with you. our business does not need money at all. Otherwise, we would have a normal stock market, enterprises would pay dividends and the population would hold money not in banks, but in shares. Shares to the company are much more profitable than any loans.
      2. Victor N
        Victor N 27 November 2017 12: 42 New
        +2
        It is worth understanding the meaning of urbanization. The concentration of the population was necessary to ensure large-scale production of labor. It was worth a lot.
        In the province, everyone built housing for himself, at his own expense, he also provided accommodation (heating, water). No gas pipelines, heating mains, water pipelines, elevators, sewers! Urban infrastructure is very expensive, and now pretty running, urgent restoration is required to avoid large-scale technological disasters. Not up to new urbanization projects.
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 12: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: Victor N
          everyone built housing in the provinces for himself, at his own expense, he also provided accommodation (heating, water). No gas pipelines, heating mains, water pipelines, elevators, sewers!

          If you like living like this, live, your right. But others don’t like living like that.
          Quote: Victor N
          Urban infrastructure is very expensive, and now pretty running, urgent restoration is required to avoid large-scale technological disasters. Not up to new urbanization projects.

          Why's that? Where did the firewood come from?
    4. voffchik7691
      voffchik7691 27 November 2017 11: 43 New
      +4
      "And in Moscow the majority of people plow like a damned one."
      At the same time, people who are not in Moscow receiving 5-6 times more than for the same work. I wish I had such a curse! They themselves admit on TV that they spend all day in classmates and in contact! Come to our hinterland, but we don’t have to plow like that, you will have a rest! We only have 12 hours a day for 20 000 per month!
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2017 14: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: voffchik7691
        At the same time, people who are not in Moscow receiving 5-6 times more than for the same work. I wish I had such a curse! They themselves admit on TV that they spend all day in classmates and in contact! Come to our hinterland, but we don’t have to plow like that, you will have a rest! We only have 12 hours a day for 20 000 per month!

        I live in the outback, plow in Moscow, and do not earn anything yet. It’s my choice, I don’t smear the snot on my face, that someone somewhere is living better than me or the conditions have not provided me.
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 27 November 2017 17: 34 New
          +7
          Quote: Alex_59
          and do not earn anything yet
          It is strange that this situation suits you and you are almost proud to talk about it. It is also strange that you did not die of hunger without earning anything.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 27 November 2017 20: 52 New
            +2
            Quote: Greenwood
            It is strange that this situation suits you and you are almost proud to talk about it. It is also strange that you did not die of hunger without earning anything.

            I don’t earn anything at the moment, I just spend it. An attempt to promote a new business))) I have something to eat.
        2. Cossack 471
          Cossack 471 27 November 2017 23: 12 New
          +7
          ALEX Somehow strange you talk! Do not smear the nozzles that you are not provided with the working conditions. and by the way, an official sitting on a big salary is simply obliged to think about that. what will the population do. what roads will drive. where to be treated. it is his holy duty as a civil servant. And if the enemy attacks here, the state will remember you
    5. E_V_N
      E_V_N 27 November 2017 12: 00 New
      +8
      Quote: Alex_59
      And in agriculture, too - what a crowd of collective farmers used to do now is making a combine harvester from an air-conditioned cabin with the help of a joystick. And what will those people now do that used to feed a crowd of collective farmers, sheared, clothed, clothed, transported? So Sobyanin is right in this sense. And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.

      You and Sobyanin, you must understand, are notable combine harvesters and who else but you should understand agricultural technologies. Who, if not you, should know how many people are needed in rural areas and small towns. And of course, in Moscow they plow like damned, producing thousands of tons of waste paper on the mountain and sitting round the clock at all kinds of "economic" forums, symposia, commissions, fronts, councils, making senseless shudders of air.
    6. Dr_engie
      Dr_engie 28 November 2017 18: 51 New
      +2
      And in Moscow, the people, with all their dislike for Muscovites, mostly plow like a damn.

      Well, yes, all over the country, some lazy people are working, some Muscovites are laborers, poor people, they are shifting papers from place to place.
  7. tasha
    tasha 27 November 2017 07: 47 New
    +9
    there are conditionally "extra" 15 million people .... these are either officials or social workers, but fewer and fewer people who can find high-performance and high-quality labor


    I completely agree. You look around, at your friends, acquaintances .. Many of them really produce something?
    Offhand from my classmates living in the village I know about: 5 officials of all sorts of small, 3 police officers, one works in veterinary surveillance, one serves a TV tower, one in DRSU. The rest of the cities fled .. But nobody plows the land ....
    1. your1970
      your1970 27 November 2017 09: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: tasha
      Offhand from my classmates living in the village I know about: 5 officials of all sorts of small, 3 police officers, one works in veterinary surveillance, one serves a TV tower, one in DRSU. The rest of the cities fled .. But nobody plows the land ....
      - Do you need someone from these?
      The rest fled - and this is precisely what Sobyanin says - because there is no highly paid job.
      And in agriculture, regardless of combines with joysticks, you have to plow. And it’s not a fact that this will bring money, and even the harvest is not always beneficial — five years of poor harvest when the grain was 10 per ton brought to our farmers the same amount (or even more) - how much 000 years of harvest at 2 rubles per ton
      1. Dr_engie
        Dr_engie 28 November 2017 18: 54 New
        +2
        Well, as if out of 30 classmates, 5 became officials and 3 police officers, then clearly someone is not needed in their position. For busting, do not you think?
        Especially considering the fact that they are fed, in fact, by the working people.
        1. your1970
          your1970 29 November 2017 10: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Dr_Engie
          Well, as if out of 30 classmates, 5 became officials and 3 police officers, then clearly someone is not needed in their position. For busting, do not you think?
          Especially considering the fact that they are fed, in fact, by the working people.
          - there were land committees under administrations. Extra officials liquidated .. 25 years have passed .. individual lop-eared citizens remembered that they / relatives have shares of agricultural / land - BUT the lands are not registered .. they start to run in circles, usually such eagles in documents jambs (wrong letters / addresses / patronymic / names / surnames) ... resort to us - FIX !!no arguments — that the nature of the body — which issued the certificates — cannot be corrected by anyone, that even if someone corrects it, it will not have legal force, therefore they need to go to court and prove in court that it is them, they don’t act on them ... Therefore, we don’t even respond to factual checks of such complaints ..
          And there are already a lot of such officials, reduced throughout the country
          Registration chambers with us, for example, from 38 districts in the region - remained in 14.Optimized..type everything in the area will be logged ...
          Only here registrars - for some reason there was no way to go to the region for a salary of 16.
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 27 November 2017 07: 48 New
    +6
    Sergey Sobyanin and "15 million conditionally extra people." What was it?
    ... it's like. fewer people, more oxygen ... Caring for the people. We have a social state. The union of labor and capital. The extra "cattle" is not needed, in a slaughterhouse, in sausage ....
    1. avt
      avt 27 November 2017 08: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      ... it's like. fewer people, more oxygen ...

      This is he, an apparatchik to the marrow of his bones and not bad by the way, trying to somehow start to slander something before the elections in Moscow. I do not justify and do not try to look for some nervous subtext, I simply state the fact - he is no PUBLIC politician, when he is silent, it turns out better - more weighty. And this is how PiaRasti will be able to train and correct the situation for the elections ..... I doubt that they can.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 27 November 2017 09: 05 New
        +1
        He seems to have spoken ...
      2. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 10: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: avt
        This is he, an apparatchik to the marrow of his bones and not bad by the way, trying to somehow start to slander something before the elections in Moscow. I do not justify and do not try to look for some nervous subtext, I simply state the fact - he is no PUBLIC politician, when he is silent, it turns out better - more weighty. And this is how PiaRasti will be able to train and correct the situation for the elections ..... I doubt that they can.

        As for the boasting of Muscovites, he put it upset. As for the 15 million, I agree with him. And in general, I believe that a normal state urbanization program should be adopted, but our liberals are waiting for the hand of the market to ruin everything.
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 01: 29 New
          +1
          IS-80_RVGK2 As for the boasting of Muscovites, he put it upset.

          What exactly? What is the subject of the Russian Federation that brings more money to the treasury of the Russian Federation (without having any reserves of oil, gas, gold, etc.) .....
          1. Dr_engie
            Dr_engie 28 November 2017 19: 02 New
            +6
            And let's better calculate how much Moscow produces real products, not pieces of paper. It collects cars, smelts steel, and at least how many radios it collects.
            In my city, people at the shipyards receive less, at the diesel locomotive repair plant the same as office workers and sellers in Moscow - is this normal at all?
            And I would see how you would talk face-to-face with a person who works in a gas condensate field, or gas processing plant, is poisoned every day with all sorts of rubbish, and then sees how the money goes wherever from the enterprise? To Moscow! And it turns out that it was not these hard workers who earned it, but effective managers at the main office in Moscow.
            Just go to any locksmith, mechanic, worker in the provinces and say that a manager in Moscow is more necessary for the country than he is. You think so there.
            All in all, Carthago delenda est.
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 19: 59 New
              +1
              Dr_engie In my city, people in shipyards receive less

              with a person who works in a gas condensate field, or a gas processing plant, is poisoned every day with all sorts of rubbish

              MEAN LIKES THIS IT AND THE GOVERNOR THEM ALSO ....
              and then he sees how money all goes where from the enterprise? To Moscow!

              FIRST IN THE STATE BUDGET OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, and much less than Moscow deducts ... if you think that feed the damned Muscovites separate from the Russian Federation and live happily ...
              1. E_V_N
                E_V_N 29 November 2017 10: 17 New
                0
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                .VO FIRST IN THE STATE BUDGET OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION, and much less than Moscow deducts ... if you think that feed the damned Muscovites separate from the Russian Federation and live happily ...

                It was precisely at first to the “head office in Moscow”, and only then this “head office” expelled to Moscow, and already that one to the budget.
                And maybe, with such your reasoning, for the Russian Federation it is cheaper to separate Moscow from the Russian Federation together with you and the Sobyanins and other effective ones? And we feed not Muscovites, but Muscovites. Do you catch the difference?
              2. Greenwood
                Greenwood 29 November 2017 16: 35 New
                0
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                MEAN LIKES THIS IT AND THE GOVERNOR THEM ALSO ....
                Nowhere else to work, especially in small towns. And governors are appointed from Moscow. This is not an elected position.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                if you think that feed the damned Muscovites separate from the Russian Federation and live happily ever after ...
                If all of Russia is separated, poor Moscow will be bent. What a pity. It turns out that 90% of Muscovites, except for sitting out the fifth point in the office, do not know how to draw more.
                1. MOSKVITYANIN
                  MOSKVITYANIN 29 November 2017 20: 35 New
                  0
                  Greenwood
                  Nowhere else to work, especially in small towns. And governors are appointed from Moscow. This is not an elected position.

                  I have a wife from the Penza region, so don’t tell me about small towns, comrade (deceased) Bochkarev and jobs I don’t hear it from you, who wants to work in Moscow or Penza it all depends on requests and aspirations and governors always assigned ....
                  if you can’t achieve anything from your local and federal authorities, what have I to do with it?
                  If all of Russia is separated, poor Moscow will be bent.

                  let's separate, I think you will gather a few who want to, Kazan and Tyumen, you definitely did not rest, it is easier for them to unite with us in the Confederation ....
                  It turns out that 90% of Muscovites, except for sitting out the fifth point in the office, do not know how to draw more.

                  At Scoop and at construction sites, they worked as janitors (you weren’t there yet), and the research institutes and the police were local, not from the nearest regions ....
                  But then what’s the matter then, while all the other republics of the Union and their capitals lived either as well as Moscow or better (provided that the RSFSR made a greater contribution to the budget of the USSR), but a miracle happened everyone separated from the RSFSR and it flourished, so with what did you take that My Moscow would live worse with the constituent entities of the Russian Federation (not necessarily with all donor regions) than now?
                  1. E_V_N
                    E_V_N 30 November 2017 10: 04 New
                    +2
                    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                    but a miracle happened, everyone separated from the RSFSR and it flourished, so where did you get the idea that My Moscow will live with its constituent entities of the Russian Federation (not necessarily with all donor regions) worse than now?

                    Janitors and construction workers worked those whom the "Muscovites" contemptuously called the "limit". But the “limit” was allowed into Moscow not because there weren’t enough workers in Moscow, but because in the second generation, the newly made Muscovite considered doing something with his hands below his dignity.
                    And why did you decide that Kazan and Tyumen would like to live with you in the Confederation and continue to feed you? You then with what reason they "rested"
  9. Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 27 November 2017 07: 53 New
    11
    labor productivity of an average Muscovite is 2,5 times higher than the national average and 5-7 times higher than in rural areas

    And this is so ... because the "average" has something to work on ... but "in the countryside" this is not yet ...
    Author: Volodin Alexey

    The alarmist ... we make money on bread, the author?
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 27 November 2017 08: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: Golovan Jack
      And this is so ... because ...

      Almost all of the country's barges are in Moscow. With their "performance" hardly anyone can compete.
    2. komvap
      komvap 27 November 2017 08: 22 New
      10
      only scribbling guards of the comprador regime earn money on bread.
    3. Volodin
      27 November 2017 12: 28 New
      +9
      Quote: Golovan Jack
      The alarmist ... we make money on bread, the author?


      And you are here, apparently, from those who "have 5-7 performance times more." Not by bread alone, Mr. good ...
      1. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 13: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Volodin
        And you are here, apparently, from those who "have 5-7 performance times more." Not by bread alone, Mr. good ...

        Urbanization is a natural process with an increase in labor productivity. Another thing is that letting it drift a little is not good.
  10. 23rus
    23rus 27 November 2017 08: 24 New
    +1
    Sobyanin is a man-urban. The swift bourgeois counter-revolution is swallowing up the relations created by the soviets, and this, alas, is correct at the present stage. But state policy is social, which is a "struggle and unity of opposites" hi
  11. Eurodav
    Eurodav 27 November 2017 08: 31 New
    17
    Change it, make it the mayor of any provincial city of Russia - and this bombast, reminiscent of EBN eyes, will burst the same hour!
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 27 November 2017 09: 33 New
      +1
      so they put him from Tyumen to steer Moscow
      1. E_V_N
        E_V_N 27 November 2017 12: 54 New
        +3
        So he didn’t miss the stars from the sky in Tyumen, although he looked richer in oil than other regions, from where minerals did not swing abroad.
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        so they put him from Tyumen to steer Moscow
        1. Cadet
          Cadet 28 November 2017 18: 06 New
          +1
          he even transformed Tyumen, made a city out of a village, roads even became good.
  12. Good Zsul
    Good Zsul 27 November 2017 08: 33 New
    +5
    Here I read your comments and I think you read what you wrote to us, namely:
    We have in rural areas conditionally "extra" 15 million people who, by and large, are not needed for agricultural production, taking into account new productivity technologies, they are either officials or social workers, but fewer and fewer people who can find high-productivity and high-quality labor for themselves. The situation is similar in small provincial cities. There are really fewer good jobs and quality jobs.
    Or just to write?
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 27 November 2017 09: 37 New
      +8
      Well, if we remove social workers from the countryside — doctors, teachers, postmen, police, etc., then the local population will either die out, or will roll back in the last century, or move to megacities. "Judge Dred" is an example of such a society
      1. Good Zsul
        Good Zsul 27 November 2017 10: 07 New
        +1
        Stirbjorn - I personally understood that for one employee, a cloud of superiors and inspectors !!!
        When for the first time the villagers were provided with passports and they could live in cities, what happened then? I, Sobyanin, I’m not blocking, I don’t live in Russia and I don’t know what he is .... I write that I read from my own angle the vision of what was written ....
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 27 November 2017 10: 25 New
          +5
          Well, let’s say, as I understand it, there are two options, either to relocate the majority to megacities, reducing the cost of maintaining infrastructure and local population, for which Sobyanin advocates. The second option is to develop territories, conduct communications, create jobs, which naturally requires long-term investments from the state. Again, large families, this is just in the countryside. That is, in the long term, in my opinion, the second option is correct if our authorities are focused on the development of the country, and not so that "our age is enough." Therefore, to the words of Sobyanin, I relate to the words of a temporary worker hi
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 10: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            The second option is to develop territories, conduct communications, create jobs

            Which places? Under which market? But the growth of labor productivity is not over and goes further. Plus demography, we have a full guard. Urbanization, on the contrary, could help; the money saved on infrastructure could be used to solve the problem of demography. The second option for the country in its current form is a disaster.
            1. Stirbjorn
              Stirbjorn 27 November 2017 11: 07 New
              +5
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Which places? Under which market?

              Moscow is attractive, as a transport hub - to build other transport hubs, that is, roads, roads and airports. Here you have the jobs. There is a market for food, always subsidizing agriculture
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Plus demography, we have a full guard. Urbanization, on the contrary, could help; the money saved on infrastructure could be used to solve the problem of demography.
              The first time I hear urbanization help with demographics. How do you generally expect money to solve the problem of demography - to set up some incubation centers ?!
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              The second option for the country in its current form is a disaster.
              The current liberal economic course of the government leads to disaster
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 12: 55 New
                +1
                Quote: Stirbjorn
                Moscow is attractive, as a transport hub - to build other transport hubs, that is, roads, roads and airports.

                Why build them, transport hubs? There are so many of them. Roads, airports are also being built. Build for construction?
                Quote: Stirbjorn
                The first time I hear urbanization help with demographics.

                It alone will not help. We need a serious state program.
                Quote: Stirbjorn
                The current liberal economic course of the government leads to disaster

                And when is a disaster planned? Zyuganov has been talking about it every time before the elections for more than 20 years, but nothing. Maybe you need to be more careful with forecasts and somehow more reasonably?
  13. Antianglosax
    Antianglosax 27 November 2017 08: 57 New
    17
    The country knows that The main obstacle to the economy is the collaborationist government, the corrupt State Duma and greedy officials. I am sure that only the above groups, which, in fact, represent the 5th column, will disagree with this thesis, and 90% of the population of Russia are convinced of this with numerous examples. In Russia, the debilitation of the population is only gaining momentum, and according to this there are still people who can use the brain, so the authorities have to turn around like a crook in a frying pan to feed the electorate another lying garbage dump. And the people are no longer being fooled by their lying tales ...
    1. 23rus
      23rus 27 November 2017 09: 41 New
      0
      Menshikov Petru1: and with whom will you work, min hertz? wink
    2. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 1 December 2017 20: 39 New
      0
      smile It is strange that you did not name the Guarantor.
  14. Strashila
    Strashila 27 November 2017 09: 19 New
    10
    The term labor productivity, for me, remains a mystery for decades ... that it is simply a mystery. it's just that the same work done in different parts of our vast country is paid differently ... in Moscow, 2,5 times more expensive ... that's all. Extra hands ... there are none as such ... there is overpopulation ... well, they are not busy in agriculture and that’s why they go to work, this is life. Create similar living conditions for citizens beyond the Urals and they simply won’t go to Belokamennaya. Many officials ... so this is a question for the authorities, why they are being bred ... only they know.
  15. Cananecat
    Cananecat 27 November 2017 09: 23 New
    +5
    Chernomyrdin v.2.0 ... it would be ridiculous if it weren’t so sad ... Luzhkov’s idea of ​​the Moscow capital of managers and service staff continues to be successfully implemented. It would be better to tell how and who he considered performance. Could it be that at those enterprises where visiting hard workers plow on a shift for 12 hours with one day off?
  16. Loess
    Loess 27 November 2017 09: 38 New
    +1
    Sobyanin, you're wrong.
  17. ibirus
    ibirus 27 November 2017 09: 52 New
    0
    Well what can I say - enchanting and magnificent. I have no words. A curtain.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 27 November 2017 10: 19 New
      +3
      power that does not need its own people ...
  18. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 27 November 2017 09: 56 New
    +6
    Well, Kudrin is still not on the “camera” tells. Moreover, what he says must be carefully analyzed, because this cunning beast says "one" meaning "completely different." Well. for example, just recently he was talking on TV about the “shameful salaries of Russians” (although it’s his idea to set a “low bar” of payments, supposedly to increase competitiveness) and said that he knows how to increase the salary of one third of the population. However, he did not say how. Why not say? Yes, because he wants to abolish the Labor Code in general, such as how much work and for what money the employer and wage worker must agree. Vacation is not necessary. Hospital-if you agree on payment in advance, do not agree, "at your own expense," etc., etc. Well, "cherry on the cake" - the retirement age must increase, at least 5 years. But here, the state will pay everyone the same, regardless of the "length of service" - all that is more is a "corporate pension", moreover, it will have to be agreed upon when concluding the labor contract.
    1. Alex_59
      Alex_59 27 November 2017 10: 06 New
      +8
      Quote: Cat Marquis
      Well, Kudrin is still not on the “camera” tells.

      It would be better if the words "tells the camera" meant "tells the cellmates."
  19. QWERTY
    QWERTY 27 November 2017 10: 04 New
    +7
    In fact, Sobyanin is right in something. There are places with a shortage of labor; there are vice versa with a shortage. But our people are difficult to rise. That’s what the residents of the USA are great for - they’re mobile. And for each of us, we need to build a plant near the house, so that in its specialty, so that the salary is a million.
    I myself constantly reel on business trips, good in this is not enough. But I’m not whining, “but build me a railroad near the house, give me an apartment for free, and a salary of 100500 thousand, and I will work 5 days for 8 hours there.”
    The main stereotypes of employees:
    - if you work "not at home" - you have to pay a lot, no matter what you did.
    - if God forbid somewhere in Karelia or the Murmansk region, they must pay at least 70 thousand for 20 working days, no matter what you did.
    - the employer is obliged not only to provide housing, but also to pay for the phone, the Internet .... a dishwashing detergent and everything else that comes to mind. The employee is obliged to litter the apartment with a decent repair, justifying that there is no time for cleaning. The time "after 17.00" is not considered time.
    - All the money in the organization is “common” money, it doesn’t matter that the office is private, the owner is one, no one except the owner of the money invests anywhere a penny. Therefore, everyone is always underpaid.
    - There is no correlation between the work performed and the remuneration.
    - If you work on a shift, it’s not necessary to work out all the scheduled days (for example, 40 in 20 — you need to work out 40, have a rest of 20), but it’s necessary to rest on all the laid days.
    - An employee cannot have his own tool in principle. The employer must provide it, and the employee must either lose it or take it home.
    - The employee is not able to travel several stops by public transport to the place of work, especially at his own expense. No explanation that the inhabitants of this city also travel by transport is not accepted.
    - And such troubles in people - a lot. And this applies to persons of Slavic nationality. Bring somewhere comrades from Central Asia - almost all of the above questions disappear. Apparently, that's why there are so many of them.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 27 November 2017 10: 08 New
      +8
      Quote: ytsuken
      And this applies to persons of Slavic nationality

      Anyone really, really ...
      About the "tool" - really amused, plus !!!
      The Soviet Union spoiled the guys ... in vain he did it, and he will hiccup for a long time.
      1. Pax tecum
        Pax tecum 27 November 2017 12: 00 New
        10
        Do you even think what to write? Trying to laugh at people, Soviet citizens, who created and restored the country, gave their whole lives to work for the prosperity of their State, in which they believed as God, they died for him without a doubt. In which there were no today's issues as in this article, and in the country's economy there were no extra people .., everything was distributed, and planned for many years to come.
        And, their country was destroyed, torn apart, humiliated ...
        And, the backlog created then and still cannot be realized by the current "pseudo-elitists", they cannot even "privatize" to the end. That's because the Power was!
        Why can’t the “jackal liberals" be able to lime?
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 27 November 2017 17: 37 New
          +4
          Do not argue with him, you still won’t get an adequate answer. Screaming in the comments is the only thing he can do.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 28 November 2017 00: 23 New
        +6
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        About the "tool" - really amused, plus !!!

        And how many kilos of the instrument do you need to carry with you? So we add up to the fact that the employer will ask the turner: "And where is your machine?"
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 27 November 2017 10: 23 New
      +7
      Quote: ytsuken
      - if God forbid somewhere in Karelia or the Murmansk region, they must pay at least 70 thousand for 20 working days, no matter what you did.

      Well, this is not a mistake of workers, but just one of the mechanisms of market self-regulation. If I can find a job for 40 in Krasnodar, and in Murmansk also 40, then what for did your Murmansk rested? But if in Krasnodar 30, and in Murmansk 70 ... well, I already begin to doubt that my choice is only Krasnodar, there is already something to think about. Therefore, in the north they pay more to attract people. This is logical.
      1. QWERTY
        QWERTY 27 November 2017 10: 37 New
        +2
        If you can find work at home for reasonable money, then why go there somewhere? Moreover, when applying for a job, all my employees are voiced the minimum amount of wages, regardless of the place of work. The maximum - depending on the amount of implementation. Today in the estimates there is even no mention of the Arctic and similar nonsense. Winter rise in price of work - 5%, and then if the customer misses, and he is greedy)))). Now even advance payments are almost nowhere to be found. And the equipment is prepaid.
    3. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 27 November 2017 10: 30 New
      +4
      Quote: ytsuken
      That’s what the residents of the USA are great for - they are mobile.

      and in what is it expressed, preferably with examples? What is indisputable is the well-developed road network throughout the country - mobility, clearly contributes, but as I understand it, the state provided this, and not a private initiative of US citizens
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 27 November 2017 10: 49 New
        +6
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        and in what is it expressed, preferably with examples?

        Here the type of mentality is implied. A typical American does not care where to live and work. Today here, tomorrow there. They have no attachment to a certain territory. This is facilitated by historical heredity - all the same, the descendants of the most frostbitten immigrants. Well, apparently some conditions were also created in the domestic plan, but here it is necessary to ask the Americans themselves. I think they don’t have a residence permit or a registration to a polyclinic, they don’t need to register with the military registration and enlistment office, it’s most likely easier and faster to buy and sell housing. Most likely they are not tied to any particular furniture or clothes that our person really wants to drag with him to a new place of residence. It is unlikely that employers themselves look crookedly when registering for employment. Well, etc.
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 27 November 2017 17: 40 New
          +6
          It is quite normal for them to move from New York to a thread in a small town, even in some remote state, if they find a good high-paying job. Moreover, the offices and headquarters of many world-famous companies are not located in the same city, but are scattered throughout the country (and not how we are being dragged to Moscow). The level of infrastructure is everywhere at a high level, in the province it is sometimes even cleaner, more comfortable and safer than in the dirty overpopulated New York.
    4. Cossack 471
      Cossack 471 27 November 2017 23: 31 New
      +4
      The whole world is different from us. that live in a warm climate. Easy to move, only shorts, a shirt and sandals are needed. Compare the actions of people after the flood in our country and, for example, in Europe. We have to do everything urgently. because winter will come and everything will freeze. in France, cots were installed and controlled. time to "cold" the car and the distance can not be compared. They have a day if you go means traveled all over Europe. and with us, it’s you only from Rostov to Saratov that got you here both productivity and everything else
      1. your1970
        your1970 29 November 2017 09: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Cossack 471
        They have a day if you go means traveled all over Europe. and with us it’s you only from Rostov to Saratov
        - when the TS was created, one of the proposals was to reduce the period of customs transit (by car) to 7 days. We thought better of it on time, otherwise when traveling inland, 3/4 cars would have flown under administrative affairs. Left 20 days
    5. asp373
      asp373 28 November 2017 00: 43 New
      +1
      Here it must be added that the employee considers himself a mega-specialist in everything, not really understanding anything.
      All this is called redneck and scoop. It is treated with therapeutic fasting, but even this does not always help. Repression and fines also help. Many employers in the provinces are embarrassed, but in Moscow this is a complete order.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 29 November 2017 06: 52 New
        +1
        But how legal are these fines?
        1. asp373
          asp373 1 December 2017 08: 42 New
          0
          If desired, the employer can legally issue any fine if it is less than 1 / 2 of the monthly salary, and if it is more, then the employee will quit.
          1. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 1 December 2017 20: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: asp373
            If desired, the employer can legally issue any fine if it is less than 1 / 2 of the monthly salary, and if it is more, then the employee will quit.

            Show the Labor Law, where the employer has the right to fine his employee ....?
          2. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 1 December 2017 23: 18 New
            +1
            Boca should be thoroughly wrinkled by such "employers." There is no such provision in the Labor Code. In any case, the fine must be justified, and a decision on it must be officially drawn up in writing.
            1. asp373
              asp373 2 December 2017 01: 40 New
              0
              Dadadad can’t work on the TC as well as trade on the Labor Code, but everyone is somehow twisted.
            2. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 2 December 2017 02: 20 New
              0
              Quote: Sergej1972
              There is no such provision in the Labor Code.

              However, the employee can be deprived. We make the employee the official minimum wage, say 10 p., Place bets on 0,5 - we get 5 p. to the employee and prescribe this in his fixed-term (so that it was always possible to merge) employment contract, and so that he does not yell, we pay the rest of the promised promises in an “envelope”, we can deprive the bonus according to the Regulation on Bonuses, kill two birds with one stone and reduce the tax burden and a worker in hedgehog gloves .....
              In any case, the fine must be justified, and a decision on it must be officially drawn up in writing.

              And this can only be done by an administrative state body, which the Employer is not ...
              An exhaustive list of disciplinary liability to which the Employer may bring his Employee specified in the Labor Code of the Russian Federation ....
    6. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 1 December 2017 20: 42 New
      +2
      laughing Ahrenet list! Can employees still pay the employer?
  20. VVK_VDB
    VVK_VDB 27 November 2017 10: 17 New
    +8
    Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.
    _________________________________________________
    ______
    I also have a peer review. And if Moscow is left without a burden-province. How long will it turn into an urban-type settlement? Year? One and a half?
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 27 November 2017 23: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: VVK_VDB
      Moscow is not a black hole that draws talents and finances into itself. It is the driver of the economy and the locomotive of Russia in many directions.
      _________________________________________________
      ______
      I also have a peer review. And if Moscow is left without a burden-province. How long will it turn into an urban-type settlement? Year? One and a half?

      Well, actually, when the Russian state came out of Muscovy, and not vice versa ...
      1. Greenwood
        Greenwood 28 November 2017 03: 53 New
        +5
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        when the Russian state came out of Muscovy, and not vice versa ...
        Russian statehood, if anything, was born in Veliky Novgorod, which was originally the center of Novgorod Rus. Then there was the glorious city of Kiev. And in the era of the Russian Empire, the capital was St. Petersburg. So there is no need here to tell tales about the great role of Moscow.
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 07: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: Greenwood
          Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
          when the Russian state came out of Muscovy, and not vice versa ...
          Russian statehood, if anything, was born in Veliky Novgorod, which was originally the center of Novgorod Rus. Then there was the glorious city of Kiev.

          This is not a fairy tale, read Karamzin, I’ve heard about Novgorod Russia for the first time, I don’t argue the princedom, if you read history, you know whose Kiev was after the Mongol invasion, at the same time you know when it became Russian again ...
          If you dispute the fact that the Moscow principality (Muscovy) began to unite the Russian lands including by force into a single state, then you go back to school .....
          And in the era of the Russian Empire, the capital was St. Petersburg. So there is no need here to tell tales about the great role of Moscow.

          Before the Russian state became an Empire, apparently there was no history?
          I do not pretend to any special role of Moscow (it is in fact), however, you will go to Moscow to earn money now and when it ceases to be (rather soon) be ... the capital
          1. Greenwood
            Greenwood 28 November 2017 16: 22 New
            +5
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            I’ve heard about Novgorod Russia for the first time, I don’t argue the princedom, if you read the story, you will find out whose Kiev was after the Mongol-Tatar invasion, at the same time you will know when it became Russian again ....
            Novgorod lands are considered the center of formation of the Old Russian state. It was here that the prince called Rurik began his reign. And later, the capital "moved" to Kiev.
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            The Principality of Moscow (Muscovy) began to unite the Russian lands including by force into a single state
            Russia at different times grew with new lands. The unification of lands and accession to the Moscow principality took place already under Ivan III Kalita and continued later. The term "Russian state" as the official name of Russia arose in general under Ivan IV the Terrible.
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            Before the Russian state became an Empire, apparently there was no history?
            The story was, but began almost 300 years before the founding of Moscow.
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            however you will go to work in Moscow and now
            Who is this "you"? And you?
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            when it ceases to be (rather soon) be ... the capital
            And when all large companies are removed from it and stop pumping gigantic amounts of money through Moscow, Moscow will immediately cease to be so tempting. It turns out that people in it work no better than for example in Vladivostok.
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 20: 03 New
              +1
              Greenwood And when all the large companies are removed from it and stop pumping gigantic amounts of money through Moscow, Moscow will immediately cease to be so tempting. It turns out that people in it work no better than for example in Vladivostok.

              Clean up. And do not forget to remove the representative offices of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, we will find tenants do not worry ...
              1. Greenwood
                Greenwood 29 November 2017 04: 28 New
                +2
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                find tenants do not worry ...
                Has Moscow City already leased all the premises? Or is it half empty? laughing
                1. MOSKVITYANIN
                  MOSKVITYANIN 29 November 2017 07: 31 New
                  0
                  Quote: Greenwood
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  find tenants do not worry ...
                  Has Moscow City already leased all the premises? Or is it half empty? laughing

                  This is a private project, and not a state one, and was implemented before the crisis ... the sanctions will be removed and all will be leased, and the representative offices of the Russian Federation are not in southern butov, and almost all are in the center of Moscow ...
                  1. VVK_VDB
                    VVK_VDB 29 November 2017 22: 40 New
                    +1
                    Well, sanctions will be lifted when Russia is dismembered. We can’t wait for this, and therefore Moscow should go about the business and not comprador.
                    1. MOSKVITYANIN
                      MOSKVITYANIN 29 November 2017 22: 55 New
                      0
                      Quote: VVK_VDB
                      Well, sanctions will be lifted when Russia is dismembered. We can’t wait for this, and therefore Moscow should go about the business and not comprador.

                      She, together with her inhabitants, will somehow figure it out without you .... what to do ...
  21. tank66
    tank66 27 November 2017 10: 41 New
    +4
    A well-fed hungry man doesn’t mean. Cheubaisen sang there: they will not fit into the market, they will die out, new people will be born. Soon they will begin to refer to the positive experience of Dutch euthanasia. Overtones are successful.
  22. Glory1974
    Glory1974 27 November 2017 11: 00 New
    +1
    A few years ago, a agglomeration development program was adopted. In Russia, there were about 20 tees. And everything goes according to this program. Distant villages are closed, with hospitals, schools, etc. And in the agglomeration attract. Accordingly, Moscow is ahead. Therefore, the area has been increased (New Moscow), money has been invested in transport, housing, etc.
    This program is not advertised, but not hidden. In our country there are 12 cities of one million people, in almost all the issue of joining the regional territories to the city is being considered.
    Thus, reading between the lines, we can understand that Sobyanin knows the specific numbers of this program. Namely, 15 of millions of residents who will eventually be resettled in the agglomeration.
  23. cro23cus02
    cro23cus02 27 November 2017 11: 06 New
    +7
    JUSTICE website. NO: http://pravosudija.net/article/takie-nuzhnye-lish
    nie-lyudi

    Sergei Semenovich pleased with the next sociological discovery, counting 15 million extra Russians who have not yet moved to large agglomerations. And even going to save them all immediately, like a sturgeon from the fire ... For budget money, of course.
    A sudden surge of philanthropy on the part of the authorities always forces us to look for a reason, and this time too, one does not have to go far for a reason. Renovation is finishing off the already falling market for new housing in Moscow. According to the renovation program, Muscovites will be relocated, the land will be squeezed out, but there are no buyers for new housing, which will be built on the site of demolished Khrushchevs.

    Thus, the project "renovation" will not give earnings "round trip". There are no buyers and there will be no investors on the squeezed-out expensive Moscow dwelling, which means there will be no “investors” ... You can break the parks by planting, as a consolation prize, even frost-resistant palm trees for budget money, but this land will not bring extra profit .. .
    As you know, extremely dangerous phenomena occur on the real estate market of the Moscow region. There is a sharp drop in solvent demand (according to http://www.irn.ru/articles/39714.html that in 2016 only a quarter of the commissioned housing was sold) and at the same time, prices in rubles practically do not fall.

    That is, ruble inflation, a double fall of the ruble, the costs of the richer part rose sharply (because they included imported cars, trips abroad, etc., and this is all the currency), and apartment prices do not change.

    So what?

    But the fact is that developers are more than fully credited. And they get loans for future housing sold, either explicitly (pledge) or implicitly, but any bank, even in which the chairman-brother of the sister-in-law’s wife, argues something like this:

    “This developer is building 5 houses ... 500 apartments of 60 m2 total of 30000 m2, will be sold for a year, at $ 2500 per m2, which means that the potential developer has a capital of 4,5 billion rubles (calculated on the calculator). Well, there’s the cost, rollback, interest, taxes, risks, it’s crossed my mind, you’re 3 billion rubles, you’ll give it in 3 years, don’t forget to thank. "

    And the developer thanked, there taxes kickbacks the cost of Tajiks cops environmentalists technical supervision SRO zadolbali built a son a cottage wanted 3 floors were enough for 2 ... But the apartments are not for sale.

    What to do?

    In a normal capitalist society, bankruptcy. Well, I didn’t take into account the market situation, the political risk came true, Trump got these bankruptcies as lovers ... The house is taken by the bank, and it starts selling quietly, lowering the price. Because the bank is the owner

    does not want to be empty ladies, the task of the bank is not to protect the construction site, but to twist the money. Or sells at discounts of 40-50% to a more lively developer, so that he sells, if he can.

    In general, the result should have been a substantial and smooth reduction in prices, that is, the Moscow bubble could thus be pushed through an adjustable hole. But no.
    RENOVATION!
    Let's see from the point of view of the developer and the bank. The bank also does not want bankruptcy - it is no secret that banks themselves do not draw money, they have their own capital and borrowed funds, many times exceeding this capital. And if a bank gambled on real estate transactions, then it also depends on the stability of the market, as a dozen banks depended on the GKO market (who does not understand, look for the 1998 crisis, when 6 rubles / $ turned into 25 rubles / $ for a month) .

    So, the banker and the builder go to the Moscow government and sell there a fresh idea:

    Moscow is a reputable borrower with a huge budget. Let’s move the suckers from five-story buildings to tuned millions of m2 in industrial zones and New Moscow for budget money, and in the place of five-story buildings, mainly near 3 rings, we will set up new 30-story blocks. There the prices are higher!

    Well, the Moscow authorities were so happy at the thought of a large budget development project that they already ran to the President and lawmakers.

    But the brain did not have time to think. The fact that if now they will resettle 1,5 million people into existing real estate, and on the site of five-story buildings there will be housing for 4 million people, then who will buy it and at what price?

    Over the year, developers in Moscow sold about 1 million m2.

    At a rate of about 25 m2 per person, this is only 40 thousand people. That is, solvent demand at the current price is 100 (!) Times less than the volume that is supposed to be pulled into the market. Even if you stretch the process for 10 years, this means a 10-fold excess of supply over demand.

    That is, if now whole neighborhoods of rented but not populated housing have appeared in the near Moscow region, then this teaching can also expect a strip conditionally from 3 to 4 rings, where most five-story buildings are blocks ...

    And who lives in empty houses? Wind and ghosts, of course, but still homeless people, drug addicts, communes of migrants and other communes ...

    And then, when in a couple of years it turns out that 2% of the introduced million m10 has been sold, it will not be possible to come up with a new renovation. And then the developers will fall along the chain, pull the banks along with them, and the Moscow budget will also be affected ...

    Of course, they are warmed up by the thought that this will not happen now, but in a couple of years, and the leaders will have time to build their small Spanish houses, but the collapsed Moscow real estate market may not forgive them for this.

    As for consumers, the prospect of buying at a price that has fallen, for example, 5 times, seems attractive, but not very - because, perhaps, your nearest neighbors will be a gang of drug addicts in the next 30-story building ...
  24. Aspid 86
    Aspid 86 27 November 2017 11: 09 New
    +3
    All right, Sobyanin said, only expressed himself so that you can cling to words. 15 million "extra" because there is no work at all there. All resources are accumulated in large cities. Most of the agriculture that uses manual labor is unprofitable and uncompetitive for the agricultural producer using the latest technology and equipment. So this "superfluous" must go to the cities, joining the army of guest workers and thereby increasing the supply of cheap labor, lowering the costs of the capitalists. And this makes it possible to exploit labor force to the maximum and say in different forums that our productivity is 5-7 times higher than in rural areas.
  25. Krasnyiy komissar
    Krasnyiy komissar 27 November 2017 11: 25 New
    +6
    Sobyanin said rudely but surely. It makes no sense to invest in dying settlements if they do not bring any returns and bring it in the future. What is the point, for example, of maintaining a mining village if the mine is already exhausted? Why maintain unprofitable production in some single-industry towns if it requires constant subsidies and never even goes to zero? The state cannot and should not subsidize everything, but it is obliged to facilitate the resettlement of people from the depressed regions of the country, creating favorable conditions for migrants.
    As for the village, the problem with an excess of population there will be aggravated further. The development of genetic engineering, modern agricultural machinery, new herbicides, insecticides and fertilizers will increase productivity and reduce the need for labor.
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 27 November 2017 12: 14 New
      +2
      Sergey Semenovich? Come on!!! And are you here?
      PS Login failed chosen. The king will not approve.
      1. Krasnyiy komissar
        Krasnyiy komissar 27 November 2017 13: 32 New
        0
        Your suggestions, sir. Want money to go into a hole? The country has hundreds, maybe thousands of dying villages and urban settlements, where there are no economic prospects. In each village you need to maintain a village council, a medical assistant, a school, service the road and power lines (gas, mobile communications and optical fiber are far from everywhere). People are doomed to poverty, to capital prices in a rural store, to a crumbling school with a couple of dozens of students (this is still not bad!) And without access to the Internet, a complete lack of leisure time, and a lack of quick medical assistance due to broken roads. Few arguments I brought? But I do not propose to leave the population of depressive single-industry towns and left to their own devices - on the contrary, I advocate their resettlement in more developed regions, provision of housing for them, retraining for popular specialties at the expense of the state. The process of urbanization cannot be reversed, so people who want to move to the city should be helped as much as possible.
        1. sergo1914
          sergo1914 27 November 2017 15: 38 New
          +8
          I do not understand. Relocate the entire population to high-rise buildings, having built up the suburbs, and throw out or sell the rest of the country? Dying settlements are not the fault of the population, but of the local authorities. You can create enterprises and jobs. There are two problems: 1) incompetent people in power, 2) the state tax system (see paragraph 1).
          1. Krasnyiy komissar
            Krasnyiy komissar 27 November 2017 16: 48 New
            0
            Why then immediately to high-rise buildings? It is necessary to build low-rise housing of a cottage type in one or two floors around cities with a population of over one million. Forests in the country at least chew ass, the free area around the city is full, there are so many energy resources that we are looking for where to sell them. The country's main problem is the low population density in some regions, which does not allow raising funds for infrastructure development. There is not enough population in this area - there is no solvent demand, there is no trade, there is no normal transport, there is no need to pull high-speed Internet, there are no cinemas, restaurants and cafes. All this is a pure economy, not the whims of officials, although theft also takes place. There are 15 millionaire cities in Russia, where labor, capital and resources stretch. These cities should become the points of economic growth, forming powerful industrial clusters.
            1. Greenwood
              Greenwood 27 November 2017 17: 48 New
              +5
              Quote: Krasnyiy komissar
              These cities should become the points of economic growth, forming powerful industrial clusters.
              And beyond these clusters, as on Mars, there is no life.
            2. Cossack 471
              Cossack 471 27 November 2017 23: 42 New
              +2
              Interesting . But how does America live? On a rotational basis leaves the cities with population of one million people for agricultural work? If the population gets lost in large cities, then we will lose territory. her "someone" will populate. A holy place is never empty .
              1. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 29 November 2017 06: 58 New
                0
                In America, a significant portion of the population lives in megacities, urban agglomerations. They have megalopolises. Have you heard about Boswash?
            3. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 29 November 2017 07: 00 New
              0
              I agree with almost all your statements, except for these wooden cottages. They went nafik. This is for everybody.
            4. your1970
              your1970 29 November 2017 10: 01 New
              +1
              clusters can be created, only now there is a problem EMPTY territories in the Far East / Siberia / Urals / Volga region (already too) / and a number of other places. What shall we do with it?
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 27 November 2017 17: 24 New
            +1
            "You can create businesses and jobs." Only where they will be effective in terms of logistics and proximity to the resource base.
    2. Greenwood
      Greenwood 27 November 2017 17: 46 New
      10
      Quote: Krasnyiy komissar
      Why maintain unprofitable production in some single-industry towns if it requires constant subsidies and never even goes to zero? The state cannot and should not subsidize everything, but it is obliged to facilitate the resettlement of people from the depressed regions of the country, creating favorable conditions for migrants.
      Let's sell the Far East to the Chinese, Japanese and Americans. It is all the same subsidized, it does not bring profit, the population is small. And so we will put up for sale whoever pays the most, we will sell it to the population, we will resettle the population (well, or so we will leave it), but we will raise the babosiks to the budget.
    3. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 00: 16 New
      0
      Krasnyiy komissar The state cannot and should not subsidize everything, but it is obliged to facilitate the resettlement of people from the depressed regions of the country, creating favorable conditions for migrants.

      So we have all 10-12 regions donors, the rest 70 are more than depressive, Moscow brings 10% of the money that makes up the budget of the Russian Federation, why the hell should she do something then if nothing changes in the depressed regions, you suggest relocating to Moscow, Well then make the Russian Federation a Confederation and give more rights to donor regions so that they can somehow influence the development of those regions that are lagging behind and make profit from it ....
      The easiest way is the enlargement of regions, the dissolution of all national republics and the transformation of the Russian Federation into a unitary state ... and the introduction of external managers in rogue regions that will submit to the regions to donors ....
      I think Moscow is no worse than the Government will deal with the development of the regions of the western part of the Russian Federation, if it will profit from this ...
      Correctly, Sabyanin told Kudrin that even though taxes from working non-Muscovites go to the budget of Moscow, they spend (most of the income) in their places of residence ....
      Accordingly, the local authorities do not need to strain on the employment of the local population and improve their living standards ....
      1. your1970
        your1970 29 November 2017 11: 16 New
        0
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        Correctly, Sabyanin told Kudrin that even though taxes from working non-Muscovites go to the budget of Moscow, they spend (most of the income) in their places of residence ....
        - give out a secret - where does the money go for rented apartments / utilities / food / transport ??? Correctly - "most of the income at their place of residence"-and in Russian in Moscow..... and home, in the regions, God forbid, if 30-40 percent gets ...
    4. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 1 December 2017 20: 44 New
      +1
      For a start, normal power would concern itself with the resettlement of such a single-industry town. And then it would ask questions of economic efficiency.
  26. E_V_N
    E_V_N 27 November 2017 11: 34 New
    +5
    “When there are no intelligible criteria for assessing labor productivity and social responsibility (excluding responsibility to a narrow group of people), then you can hang on your ears and noodles that the“ buy-sell ”marketer has“ 5-7 times more productive labor than teacher in a rural school. "
    Correct article, well done author. Here is the key phrase, they adopted the criterion of labor productivity that was worn out of the finger, and they justify frank economic robbery.
  27. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 27 November 2017 11: 35 New
    +6
    But isn't Sobakin himself an extra man? With his tile sidewalks, on which (tile) does his wife do business?
    1. Hottabych
      Hottabych 27 November 2017 12: 17 New
      +1
      And what difference does it make to you what makes Sobyanin’s wife? What, envious people! Instead of working and earning, they consider someone else’s good.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 27 November 2017 17: 26 New
        +1
        In Russia, and everywhere else, they will always be successful.
        1. Overlock
          Overlock 28 November 2017 20: 39 New
          +3
          Do you envy Moscow patients? Would you like to go their way? And where did the reduced hospitals go? They were sold (corps). And to whom? Pechatnikov, Malyshev, etc. And at the moment, the remaining hospitals with an overload of 120% do not close. People are put wherever urological - in gynecology, cardiological - in traumatology. Want to take their place? A traumatologist will treat you with angina, and a gynecologist will eliminate your prostatitis. rest assured
      2. 16112014nk
        16112014nk 27 November 2017 19: 19 New
        +7
        Quote: Hottabych
        What difference does it make to you

        How to say? Tenders are organized, as if for objectivity, for the production of paving slabs and in an amazing way, the office of Sobyanin’s wife always wins. The same genius economically as Luzhkov’s wives? But Luzhkov is not the mayor of Moscow, and where is Baturin? And all of her abilities suddenly disappeared somewhere. So the difference is big.
      3. 16112014nk
        16112014nk 27 November 2017 19: 26 New
        +1
        [quote = Hottabych] to work and earn
        I wanted to add - this is plagiarism. One of our leaders has already "cast in granite" - if you want money, go to business.
      4. Cossack 471
        Cossack 471 27 November 2017 23: 44 New
        0
        If his wife makes money on the tile, then this is corruption.
  28. Lnglr
    Lnglr 27 November 2017 11: 37 New
    +1
    Apparently, most of those who commented on the entire discussion did not even deign to watch.
  29. Sedoy
    Sedoy 27 November 2017 12: 01 New
    +2
    read the original speech, not castrated vyser under the "order" of the author of the article ...
    1. Volodin
      27 November 2017 12: 31 New
      +4
      Oh, right. Again, the vile author pulled words out of context, but there was no "conditionally extra" people in a speech ...

      Your commentary, it turns out, under the order nakropali? ..
      1. Hottabych
        Hottabych 27 November 2017 12: 48 New
        +3
        Of course, pulled out. And even from this article, the meaning of the phrase is clear.
        And what did not vomit, then you did not finish.
        1. Volodin
          27 November 2017 13: 05 New
          +7
          Quote: Hottabych
          then you did not understand.

          * did not understand - together (there is no verb "added")

          So about this in the article and speech. That we are by definition "misunderstood." 25 million jobs promised, but did not create - we misunderstood it, the police needed to be renamed the police, because there were no other problems - we misunderstood it, the boy who wrote the text about the "innocent dead" Nazis - also we misunderstood, from the land of all to drive megalopolises - again misunderstood. From the same countryman - we are told clever things every time, and we (let it be - I, only one of your humble servant) misunderstand. The officials are right, the people are not the same ...
          1. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 13: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: Volodin
            25 million jobs promised but not created

            This is the point.
            Quote: Volodin
            police to the police had to be renamed

            Not necessary, but sometimes easier to destroy and rebuild.
            Quote: Volodin
            from the land to drive everyone into megacities - again misunderstood.

            Now 7 percent work in agriculture, as far as I remember from all workers, and 27 in the whole population live in the village. With further growth in labor productivity, the percentage of workers will be even less. Don't you think that the difference is a little bit more? Industrial production is the same. So here it is not a conspiracy of liberals, but quite objective reasons.
            1. Volodin
              27 November 2017 13: 30 New
              +4
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              So there’s no conspiracy by the liberals, but quite objective reasons.

              So about the "conspiracy" and we are not talking. We are talking about elementary respect for people who suddenly turned out to be “superfluous” - only because the village was destroyed for many years (and not at the will of those who live in it).
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 27 November 2017 13: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Volodin
                We are talking about elementary respect for people who suddenly turned out to be "superfluous" - only because the village was destroyed for many years (and by no means at the request of those who live in it).

                The fact that the village was being destroyed is understandable. But you have to be objective. The 90s only aggravated the processes that took place long before the 90s. The growth of labor productivity still made these people "superfluous." The same goes for industry. And indeed all areas of activity.
                1. dauria
                  dauria 27 November 2017 20: 59 New
                  +7
                  The growth of labor productivity still made these people "superfluous"


                  Ugh, God. Why didn’t you see the main thing in all its glory? Well, productivity is not growing, but production is simply curtailed - hence the extra people. We sell Chinese junk and eat imported surrogate. And pay off oil and gas. Everything else "production" is, with rare exceptions, the service staff, no more. Here and 15 million people "a lot" in the opinion of the famous Englishwoman.
              2. Hottabych
                Hottabych 27 November 2017 18: 42 New
                +1
                So Sobyanin says about this problem, isn’t it? I do not want to offend you, but the topic is sucked from the finger. Although, apparently, now, articles criticizing the authorities are a bonanza for a journalist. Elections on the nose. )
            2. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 29 November 2017 07: 03 New
              0
              Already not 27%, smaller. Although we have a mess here. Some villages and large villages in the South are essentially cities. And many small towns and urban settlements are not much different from rural accuracy.
          2. Hottabych
            Hottabych 27 November 2017 13: 36 New
            0
            Yeah, thanks for the fix. Only now, from your last comment I misunderstood nothing. ) Everything is mixed in a bunch. Although, I caught the thought - you’re not happy with the power ...
  30. sergo1914
    sergo1914 27 November 2017 12: 02 New
    +4
    Bohemia believes that the people are not the same. History does not teach anything to people. 1917? No, have not heard.
  31. elenagromova
    elenagromova 27 November 2017 12: 09 New
    +5
    He himself is superfluous.
    What is this strange model of the country that they offer? Several large cities, where people are almost forced to drive? And between them - what? Huge deserted spaces? This makes no sense.
    Maybe people even need to pay extra so that they just live in these small villages and villages. It is that there life glimmered, and the huge country at night was not visible from space as a solid black space with separate luminous areas.
    And talking about labor productivity is a feeling that they are aimed not at raising it with modernization, but at covering terrible injustice — when people in different localities work the same way, but get much differently.
    1. QWERTY
      QWERTY 27 November 2017 12: 22 New
      +4
      Let's pay from YOUR PERSONAL income to the inhabitants of these villages and towns? Why not? Well, so that "life was warm" and from space the view was decent?
      Where are all these guest workers from? And from there, there aren’t so many local people. Moscow, though rubber, but most of those who want to go there have already arrived. And it doesn’t matter what they do there - they sell cowards - does it mean someone is buying them? If they don’t buy, will they stop selling them? The logic is simple as a lowing - someone needs to build some kind of object in each village so that local residents can work there. Does it make sense in this object - nobody cares. And let's produce rubber slippers in Naryan-Mar, and then export them by plane to the rest of the country? It doesn’t matter that they will be gold and no one will buy them - but everything is in the way ....
      1. elenagromova
        elenagromova 27 November 2017 13: 39 New
        +4
        So, let the migrant workers come, let the slippers be imported from China, and their citizens - "superfluous"?
      2. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 1 December 2017 20: 47 New
        +1
        And let you begin to pay extra to such power from your personal income! Well, she did not parasitize on taxes of the working people.
  32. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 27 November 2017 12: 14 New
    +8
    Oh, I remember how “someone” was talking (about “talking”) about creating “25 million high-tech jobs” for 5 years ..., or 10 years ...., or 25 years ...., or "somewhere in the" foreseeable future "? ..... wink
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2017 17: 28 New
      +1
      We will wait for the promised 30 years in Russia.
  33. elenagromova
    elenagromova 27 November 2017 12: 17 New
    0
    In general, there is such a brilliant invention of mankind, as the Internet. Its potential is not used to its full potential. Namely, he would help, with the right approach, to solve the problem of people’s employment, the problem of traffic congestion, and much more. If a person, sitting at home in a village, would operate a machine tool at the plant, which is located at least 1000 kilometers away, but at the plant itself, only a few people on duty would be needed ...
    1. QWERTY
      QWERTY 27 November 2017 12: 36 New
      0
      Well yes. This is the eternal dream of a Russian person. Recall the dummies in the movie "Viy"))))) And how does the Internet reach a person over 100500 km? Does a satellite hang over each village? Over the trees through the forest optical cable? Does this person eat on the Internet? What about getting dressed? Oh yes, he needs a 3-D printer ... Isn’t it easier to settle this person where the Internet is already? And closer to the plant, you never know what? Or manages one on the Internet, and repairs the other? Whoever fixes cannot control?
      1. Cossack 471
        Cossack 471 28 November 2017 00: 02 New
        +3
        It’s somehow Sobyanin. tells how the junction for 60 billion was built, and I think if the authorities wanted to do something to solve economic problems, then if you have EASY money, for example, buy small cheese dairies and free of charge (as the guarantor said, they still steal money) distribute them in villages in Siberia and Altai and they will fill up the country with cheeses. At the same time, the problem of animal husbandry and employment will be solved immediately. I can give other ideas, but who needs it. Kudrin knows better for us what we need. Although there are certainly big obstacles. for example, the cost of energy and the problem of their connection. the cost of gasoline all sorts of platons and stuff
      2. Greenwood
        Greenwood 28 November 2017 03: 44 New
        +5
        Quote: ytsuken
        Isn’t it easier to settle this person where the Internet is already?
        Those. laying optics in remote areas is a more expensive task than relocating a person from the habitual place of the devil understand where. Oh well. This is the same way officials argue.
      3. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov 1 December 2017 20: 48 New
        +1
        wink As far as I remember, the Ukrainian village is shown there. Russians have different tales, although they are not without a certain laziness.
  34. vanavatny
    vanavatny 27 November 2017 13: 02 New
    +9
    Moscow became a parasite city, the other day was there, in a gardener, recalled how the Cherkizon was heroically closed, ending the chaos of the 90s, yeah .. all these power and foul mongers quietly begin to cause rabies, no longer because of the complete discrepancy of the Galimov’s nonsense they brought, I begin to feel discomfort from their one existence, and by the number of pseudo-economic forums we (more precisely, all this bureaucratic cesspool) have long overtaken the USSR with its worthless party meetings, only all this rubbish with receptions costs like launching an astronaut ... creatures
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 00: 29 New
      0
      vanavatny Moscow has become a parasite city

      What is the parasite? Muscovites do not work in a gardener, there people from other regions of the Russian Federation are engaged in trade, get a living, and Moscow provides them with land for the market, well, they don’t have another way to earn money at home, so they go to the gardener to work with hucksters, I don’t I don’t have, it would be another matter if orphans worked for free in this gardener and would give all the proceeds to the budget of Moscow ..... then Moscow would be hit ....
      None of the huckster from the gardener asks his governor why he has to go to the damned Moscow to earn money, it means that people like it and therefore they work as a gardener and are glad that they have such an opportunity, dreaming about an apartment in Moscow in rare breaks and those who hate it (consisting of 90% of limits like them) ...
      only all this rubbish with receptions

      You ask, maybe you will be invited to a buffet table ....
  35. The Siberian barber
    The Siberian barber 27 November 2017 13: 22 New
    +5
    Reading such articles, the soul begins to overwhelm, some hopelessness (
    I would like to believe that the “light at the end of the tunnel” is close, but after the rhetoric of people whose views and actions determine the course of the country, you really understand that the authorities have ordinary grabbers who are small and small (
  36. Krasnyiy komissar
    Krasnyiy komissar 27 November 2017 13: 49 New
    +6
    Most northern cities expect an extremely sad fate when gas and oil deposits run out. Any other economic activity there simply can not stand the competition with more southern cities. While there is production, there is money to maintain the infrastructure, the gas is over - drain the water! In such places, the only adequate working method is shift work, as It does not require the creation of a full-fledged infrastructure: they built a working village from ready-made modules, pumped out a resource from the bowels of the Earth and moved to another field.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2017 17: 33 New
      +1
      Long before gas runs out, thermonuclear energy will appear, it will then squeeze gas, oil and coal from the world energy market, I think by the year 2050, such power plants will appear.
    2. Cadet
      Cadet 28 November 2017 18: 23 New
      +1
      You know that the majority of shift workers in the north are from rural areas, the majority of collective farmers also build a pipe, the townspeople will not go to work for 30-50 rubles a month, live in a trailer and eat dry food. There was such an organization in the city of Tyumen under the name of KSU, they built a new pipe for the oil industry and repaired it, so most of the drivers, locksmiths were former engineers and mechanics from villages, devastated state farms, welders, most of them were from Ukraine, tractor drivers were also mostly rural . They were given an emergency time to weld a pipe, and they plowed with Stakhanov's methods, day and night. You are right that the northern cities have no future and will not, there is probably only housing there, as in the capital
  37. unignm
    unignm 27 November 2017 14: 22 New
    +2
    what did they say there? 8 million Russians is enough for pipe maintenance and other works.
  38. 1536
    1536 27 November 2017 15: 05 New
    +5
    This is the danger of defending “dissertations” that are not “scientific”. Then the newly made "doctors" get the right to broadcast all sorts of things. Still, cooking shows on TV is better ...
    High-speed railways need to be built, interconnected the cities of Russia from the western borders to the Far East, to implement scientific projects on modern energy, transport, space, IT-technologies, to revive the genetic fund of crops, pedigree cattle, to apply advanced technologies in the processing of agricultural products . With drugs and alcoholism to fight. Is that not a priority? But this is specific. And not the mythical "labor productivity." Unemployment, like in the West, was wanted by millions of worthless people living on benefits, who have no prospects, etc., give rest, let them only see them in Russia. And what is remarkable. Well, why didn’t they equip their cities and towns with such “breakthrough” thoughts? Where he was born, it fit in there, according to popular wisdom. All in Moscow, labor productivity is going to increase.
  39. BAI
    BAI 27 November 2017 15: 15 New
    +1
    that the average Muscovite’s labor productivity is 2,5 times higher than the national average and 5-7 times higher than in rural areas.

    I understand this explanation of the separation of Moscow salaries from Russian?
    1. Siberian German
      Siberian German 27 November 2017 15: 42 New
      +3
      we have in Cheremnovka many people plow from dawn to dawn ... but only to receive as much as in Moscow in a month they will have to plow for 4-5 months
  40. tracer
    tracer 27 November 2017 15: 37 New
    +4
    Off topic, but still. I am convinced that there is no alternative to the new socialist state. People want not just to work, but to be needed each in their own place. Do not get me wrong, I do not advocate communism in any way.
    1. VVK_VDB
      VVK_VDB 29 November 2017 22: 49 New
      +1
      then, how do you understand?
  41. Siberian German
    Siberian German 27 November 2017 15: 39 New
    +6
    I have a question honestly not for all this bastard jacket (Dimona Sobyanina Gref, etc. .......), but for Vova ... I don’t believe what they say on their own behalf ... but the question is - Vova, you can bring people to extremes
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 29 November 2017 17: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: Siberian German
      Vova, you can bring people to extremes
      Vovan was thinking about something like that, too, he urgently put together the Rosguard, put his man at the head and armed him with the latest technology.
    2. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 1 December 2017 20: 50 New
      +1
      smile The guarantor is in the know. Hand washes a hand.
  42. serega61
    serega61 27 November 2017 15: 42 New
    +3
    Good article, everything is correct.
  43. Gennady Fyodorov
    Gennady Fyodorov 27 November 2017 15: 46 New
    +3
    It is clear that such gaps with brains on one’s side need to be eliminated so as not to poison the minds of gullible people. But where to get new ones. others. right ?! Education has already been rebuilt so as to prepare the same clones. They have everything going according to plan! But we have no plans. And they won’t let them work out, the secret services carefully monitor this. Soon everyone will have a cop and an FSB officer, the same fool and scoundrel as the mayor. And they will make sure that he thinks right! This is called pluralism, it seems?
  44. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 27 November 2017 15: 47 New
    +4
    Quote: pin_code
    My opinion is that the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members, are over 15 million. And life will become easier, life will be more fun. I was in Moscow in 16, I saw what money was being spent on and I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which nothing is built except for shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...

    If it is considered as performance, that under my windows for 500 wet AUTUMN 22, under the windows of a 3-apartment 2-storey building, I changed (as a guest worker from the East, with shovels) asphalt throughout the street, with the transfer of curbs and covered bus stops with imported equipment from Sweden ( not from Belarus!), the really Sobyaninskaya Moscow is impressive. But Moscow Sobyaninsky is listed only in the apparatus of the St. Petersburg President of the Russian Federation - in fact, Muscovites do not feel either Tyumen or St. Petersburg. And in this glavnyuk of Moscow and Russia has yet to be convinced of ALL UPCOMING ELECTIONS. Previous ones have not convinced them yet! All of these Moscow-Kremlin games in "civil forums" only lead to the expansion of the PARASITIC FIELD of the COUNTRY, in which all kinds of Fursens and
  45. Sergey Cojocari
    Sergey Cojocari 27 November 2017 15: 53 New
    +4
    If you hate them so much, then why, time after time, elect yourself to be your boss. Why do you focus on Navalny, Sobchak, Zhirinovsky and Zyuganov? Just because they stick out? What really in all of Russia, there is no man worthy of a galley rower and his iPhone? I DO NOT BELIEVE!
  46. Mikhail Zubkov
    Mikhail Zubkov 27 November 2017 15: 59 New
    +4
    Quote: pin_code
    My opinion is that the same Sobyanin and others like him, including family members, are over 15 million. And life will become easier, life will be more fun. I was in Moscow in 16, I saw what money was being spent on and I see in which opera Novokuznetsk, in which nothing is built except for shopping centers, no factories, no factories. and KVM is already dead ...
    If it is considered as performance, that under my windows for 500 wet AUTUMN 22, under the windows of a 3-apartment 2-storey building, I changed (as a guest worker from the East, with shovels) asphalt throughout the street, with the transfer of curbs and covered bus stops with imported equipment from Sweden ( not from Belarus!), the really Sobyaninskaya Moscow is impressive. But Moscow Sobyaninsky is listed only in the apparatus of the St. Petersburg President of the Russian Federation - in fact, Muscovites do not feel either Tyumen or St. Petersburg. And in this glavnyuk of Moscow and Russia has yet to be convinced of ALL UPCOMING ELECTIONS. Previous ones have not convinced them yet! All these Moscow-Kremlin games in "civil forums" only lead to the expansion of the PARASITIC FIELD of the COUNTRY, which grows all sorts of Fursen, doggies and "collie boys" from Gazprom estates. By the way - why Gazprom populated Novy Urengoy ukronatsikami and hired to work there, not only the mayor-Ukrainian, but 30000 points. Russophobian Galicians, who have been transported there for many years by air at our Russian expense ?! Why not hire Tyumen neighbors, including Sobyanin? For Novy Urengoy Sobyanin would be quite a joy! But for Moscow - alas, at least three metros built - Big Moscow will not accept it ... Moscow does not believe anyone else!
  47. SamTarley
    SamTarley 27 November 2017 16: 40 New
    +7
    Where does high productivity come from if over a million Russians work as security guards? Police officers per capita more than in the states almost doubled. Therefore, low productivity, once one with a bipod and seven with a spoon.
  48. seacap
    seacap 27 November 2017 17: 11 New
    11
    With all due respect to Moscow, as the capital and symbol of our country, I cannot but express my opinion as a provincial from the outskirts of our country, who faithfully served her and the people her whole life. I remember well the recent times when in Moscow and the regions did not register (and therefore did not transfer) criminals and the military, but "friends" from the Caucasus and Asia all had a welcome residence permit after a week. Moscow is another country, not Russia for sure, rather it is a metropolis, and the rest of the vast territory of the motherland - its colony. Muscovites (I mean bureaucrats and moneybags, who have unlimited resources and, most importantly, connections) rush around the country and where they come as conquistadors - they destroy all living things, after them the scorched earth, which no longer belongs to local Aborigines As an example, Boos, having flown to his destiny to destroy, having destroyed all high-tech production, killed a successful and growing airline, with flights to 50 countries, organized 4 daily flights to Central Asia (then there were 4-5 and only to Pi ter and Moscow), exported whole villages, all of them are now in the markets, and the Ivanovs and Petrovs are sticking at factories and ports. Like vultures his friends and acquaintances flocked, buying up everything and everything on the vine, lifted prices higher than Moscow, bought up the entire Baltic coast and land (even Luzhkov was noted here), adding his loot (or rather ours). As a result, unemployment, and these are highly skilled workers and engineers who worked for defense and rocket science, shipbuilding, prohibitive housing and food prices, the almost complete absence of a fishing fleet (was more than 300 ships), the city disfigured by shopping centers and stalls in the middle of sidewalks, cut down parks and squares, losing its historical identity.
    Moscow, like a brush of a vacuum cleaner, which itself overseas, sucking material, scientific and human resources out of the carpet of our Motherland, depopulate entire regions, there are no funds in regions that lose their potential and territories that are successfully populated by our neighbors, we will soon find out with surprise that it’s not our land anymore. In some previously promising areas, there is no sense in building or reviving production, there is no one to work for them there. Such a concentration of everything and everything in 1 city is a direct threat to the existence of the country and the integrity of its territory. the city is being built and expanded not for the people of the titular nation, but for the closest and not so our neighbors who have flown to this generous pie, i.e. in a place where everything is sold and bought, where the loot rules. The question of instant missile strike, which underlies the strategy of our "partners", no longer seems so unrealistic, concentrating everything on one small area of ​​the territory, the whole strike is possible right away paralyze the whole country, deprive it of government, science and industry, as well as funds and the monetary system, as well as the ministry of defense and the ministry of the interior, the whole question of the existence of ancient culture and Slavic civilization was solved with little blood and cost, not a single regional remained and he doesn’t even think about taking defense and defense actions, but collects manat and blows it with servants to the nearest border or to an overseas villa.
  49. statokaev
    statokaev 27 November 2017 17: 12 New
    +4
    And maybe Mr. Sobyanin is superfluous in Russia? Where did all of the extra people come from in Russia? Let people live on their land, work, raise and raise children, educate true patriots. Restore the peasant villages and Cossack villages and again we sing: "At the table, no one is superfluous!"
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 27 November 2017 17: 36 New
      +8
      While we are "chewing snot," we will be superfluous.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 27 November 2017 17: 44 New
      +1
      Villages and villages will soon disappear, everywhere there will be urban-type villages and regional centers, in which the population will be concentrated.
      1. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 28 November 2017 00: 37 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        Villages and villages will soon disappear, everywhere there will be urban-type villages and regional centers, in which the population will be concentrated.

        Move to the village and you will be happy, make, t.s. your contribution .....
  50. NordUral
    NordUral 27 November 2017 17: 35 New
    +4
    Vote for EP? .. Or maybe turn on the brain, finally?