Foreign tanks are not afraid of our missile systems

76
Foreign tanks are not afraid of our missile systemsTest conditions weapons do not meet the estimates of the protection of foreign armored vehicles

Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) are an effective means of combating tanks, have a large firing range and have small dimensions and masses. ATGM in conjunction with the launcher and special equipment received the name of anti-tank missile system (ATGM). The anti-tank missile system is one of the most technically sophisticated and knowledge-intensive types of weapons.

Adoption of the new model depends on the results of state tests (GI), which are used to verify that its combat characteristics comply with the requirements of the tactical and technical requirements (TTZ). These tests are organized by the customer responsible for their conduct. The inadequate assessments of the level of protection of foreign armored vehicles and the combat characteristics of domestic ATGMs during the formation of the TTZ, as well as deficiencies in programs and methods of the GI, led to the adoption of anti-tank systems with ineffective tandem combat units (TBCs).

With regard to the conditions of the sixth generation of wars abroad, work is underway to create a new generation tank with high firepower and security, which is able to counteract all types of modern and promising anti-tank weapons.

This should take into account the multi-level principle of protection of foreign armored vehicles, which ensures the detection and destruction of Russian ATGM in various attack zones. For this reason, it is necessary to create highly effective anti-tank systems for the defeat of modern and promising armored vehicles. In this case, the level of methods and programs of the GI should ensure the verification of the combat characteristics of the new high-performance universal anti-tank systems, developed in the framework of the LG-2020.

To the disadvantages of the ATGM equipped with the TBCh, the NVO newspaper has repeatedly appealed over the past 12 years (NVO No. 31, 1999; No. 13, 2008; No. 45, 2011, etc.). The articles noted that the adopted simulators for testing tandem warheads are not analogous to the designs of dynamic protection (DZ) installed on foreign tanks. In other words, for testing tandem warheads, a DM was installed, mounted on Soviet tanks, which is inferior in performance to foreign models. As a result, a number of armed ATGMs with ineffective PBC were received. But this is only one of the reasons for the unsatisfactory effectiveness of ATGM with TB. The second reason is the fuzzy GI rules, which allow the use of anti-tank systems on the basis of false test results with the participation of GRAU. But let's look at everything in order.

MENTALITY - ABOVE

The IWO publications focus on the technical shortcomings of the ATGM with a TBP. But behind the scenes were the moral and ethical relations between high-ranking officials, their honesty, intransigence to injustice in making decisions in the process of creating anti-tank systems.

The command of the test site (military unit 21374) of the Soviet Ministry of Defense, having extensive experience in evaluating the characteristics of anti-tank systems adopted by weapons, allowed me, together with the officers of the test site, to conduct additional tests of the armor penetration of XHNXX9 (Zenit), 128X9M (“Invar”) missiles under conditions use of DZ blocks with a length of 119 – 400 mm installed on foreign tanks M500А48, М3А60. Recall that the 1М9 and 128М9М missiles were put into service with the help of domestic DZ (BDZ-119) units with a length of 1 mm, which were not always overcome by tandem warheads and, in the event of a negative result, were considered uncountable experiments that did not affect the decisions made commission gi. So fraud was formed test results.

One of the conditions for testing using DZ blocks with a length of 500 mm was the prohibition to compile any reporting materials. The command of the 21374 military unit in the event of a negative test result feared a harsh reaction by the GRAU - up to the punishment of employees involved in organizing the assessment of the combat properties of the recently adopted Zenit and Invar anti-aircraft systems. Hidden from the eyes of the GRAU tests were held in stationary conditions: TBCh installed at an angle of 60 degrees from the normal to the upper surface of the DZ. The length of the containers was 500 mm, in which the eight elements of dynamic protection (EHR) 4 – 22 fit into so that all elements were undermined. The total mass of explosives of eight EHL 4С22 was 2 kg. The contact point of the TBP was in the upper half of the container (“NVO” No. 4, 2011). Versions of mounted DZ (thickness of the steel plate 3 mm) and built-in DZ (plate thickness - 15 mm) were tested. After the explosions, the TBH received stunning results. The armor penetration of the TBCh of the 9М128 (“Zenith”) and 9М119М (“Invar”) missiles decreased by 70% after the interaction with the integrated remote sensing system and by 50% from the mounted remote warning. These tests confirmed the high efficiency of foreign DZ, due to its large length in the plane of interaction. At the same time, a problem arose - how to bring the obtained “underground” results to the leadership of the Main Institution and to achieve the official conduct of such tests. It should be noted that any attempt to conduct such tests would have been blocked by the GRAU, which was confirmed later. But it was necessary to take any steps.

While maintaining business relations with the 3 staff of the Central Research Institute of the Defense Ministry (42261 military unit) responsible for the combat effectiveness of the Zenit and Invar ATGMs used in service, I briefly informed them of the test results. The situation was extremely difficult: on the one hand, the 42261 military unit participated in the development of tactical and technical requirements (TTT) and TTZ for the creation of these samples, and on the other, it turned out that serious errors were made in these documents, which were the cause of the unsatisfactory effectiveness of the defeat. tanks M1, M1A1. In spite of the fact that the management of the military unit promised to report to the Main Investigation Commission about the defects in justifying the parameters of the foreign DZ simulator, it took the position of delays and promises.

In the end, my friend Colonel Lev Savkin led me to the Deputy Commander of the Missile Forces and the Artillery of the Ground Forces, Lieutenant General Yuri Shumilikhin. He listened carefully to my message and called Major General Gennady Ludanniy, Chief of the Directorate of the Main Directorate of the Main Investigative Committee, who was in charge of the ATGM. Yuri Shumilikhin said that he has reason to doubt the effectiveness of the recently adopted Zenit and Invar anti-aircraft systems. Therefore, it is necessary to carry out additional tests in the conditions of remote sensing, installed on tanks М60А1, М48А3. Gennady Ludann promised to sort it out and give a response in a week.

A week has passed. And here I am again in the office at Shumilikhin. The phone is on speakerphone. Ludann responds very evasively that there is currently no ATGM with a TBT at the test site and such tests are not appropriate. It can be assumed that, before this telephone conversation, Ludanny had discussed the situation with the 42261 military unit personnel and had given an answer rejecting additional tests of the ATGM with tandem warheads. The ordering office of Ludannoye enjoyed priority when ordering ATGWs. In this situation, the management style of work was that the customer tried to smooth out and hide the mistakes made in the design and conduct of state tests. Therefore, at present, the mass of underdeveloped ATGMs is in service: 9М128, 9М113М, 9М131, 9М119М, 9М133, 9М123, 9М117М and others.

Unfortunately, the activity of the head of the ordering department, who concealed serious mistakes in creating the ATGM and considered it his main task to preserve his own mentality, caused the failure to create highly efficient ATGMs.

The collapse of the Soviet Union, which began at the beginning of 90, played a role for the commanders who tried to hide the shortcomings of the Soviet ATGM with TBC in the ability to overcome DZ installed on foreign tanks (“NVO” No. 45, 2011).

MORNING INSTEAD OF SCIENTIFIC SUBSTANTIATIONS

Last year, the military-theoretical journal Military Thought (No. 7) published an article by Lieutenant Colonel Rafail Davliev, an employee of the GRAU test site, “Improving the Evaluation of the Efficiency of Tandem Cumulative Military Units”, in which an attempt was made to improve outdated guidance documents containing serious methodological errors. Davliev, as an employee of the test site, was constrained in the choice of definitions and assessments in the formation of final conclusions. In general, the article by Rafail Davliev is devoted to the issues of reducing the armor penetration rate of a TBT after interaction with dynamic protection. There were no questions in the article. How were the negative results of GI on overcoming DZ missiles with TBN 9М128, 9М119М, 9М113М, 9М117М hidden when they were taken into service? Why does the vicious practice of testing TBCH continue with the help of the Soviet DZ, which does not reflect the essence of the construction of foreign dynamic protection?

Testing the armor penetration capability of the ATGM TOR in the course of the GI is carried out by firing and in stationary conditions in accordance with the “Method of experimental evaluation of the effectiveness of overcoming the dynamic protection, armor penetration and parameters of the armored action of the ATG combat units at the preliminary and state tests” developed by the 1986 military unit in 42261 TsNIIHM, Scientific Research Institute of Steel, Central Research Institute Tochmash, military unit 21374.

Fig. 1. Placement of hinged DZ (BDZ-1) blocks on armor plates and organization of ATGM launches with TBC at maximum ranges along vertically mounted obstacles: a) placing BDZ-1 on armor plates; b) the organization of the shooting.

Davliev misses an important point in the conditions for conducting GI 9М128, 9М119М missiles when firing at obstacles equipped with remote sensing equipment. For these missiles, firing was carried out on armored obstacles, in which six BDZ-1s were installed (three blocks in two rows). At the same time, the distance between the missiles and obstacles with remote sensing was 100 m. It is important to note that these missiles were not tested by such an important parameter as overcoming remote sensing during firing at the maximum range. Under the GI program for assessing the armor penetration capability of the TBT, the 25 9М128 and 9М119М missiles were allocated. In this case, the TBC of the 9М128 missiles did not penetrate obstacles with remote sensing five times. What did the commission who led the IG do? In the act according to the results of the GI, these experiments are classified as uncountable. Thus, using the method of attributing these experiments with a negative result to uncountable, the 9М128 Zenit rocket withstood the GI and was put into service. In this case, the GI Commission did not use its right to terminate tests according to GOST B 15.210-78 in order to identify the reasons for non-compliance with the TTZ requirements to overcome the DZ when firing. The termination of tests should be drawn up by an act, which is signed by the members of the commission and sent to the GRAU and to the KB.

History with the adoption of the missile 9М128 was contagious, as a result of each deception followed by the next deception. With the help of such a fraudulent reception, not only the 9М128 rocket was adopted, but also others - the 9М119М, 9М113М, 9М117М. One can guess that the KI Commission could not make such decisions without the knowledge of the GRAU.

In 1993, the customer finally comes to the insight that the conditions for verifying the effect of a TBT on obstacles with remote sensing when shooting at a range of 100 m do not reveal many features of the reduction in armor penetration. For this reason, when conducting GI, the 9M117М was already fired at the maximum range of 5 km.

The organization of firing at the maximum range is shown in Fig. 1, where the hinged DZ is placed on the armor plate, which corresponds to the installation of BDZ-1 units (“NVO” No. 45, 2011) on the T-72 tank. Recall that on the frontal parts of the body (LBK) T-72 placed 28 units BDZ-1 (seven blocks in four rows). But for reliable ATGM hits at 4 – 5 km distances, an 56 BDZ-1 units were installed on an armored obstacle. At LBK, foreign tanks housed seven blocks of the DZ of greater length in two rows. And here there is an obsolete Russian DZ, which has never imitated the parameters of a foreign DZ.

When firing at maximum range revealed a great folly, which is that, in accordance with the TTZ, tandem warheads must pierce armored obstacles equipped with remote sensing when shooting at maximum ranges with 0,9 frequency and in stationary tests - also 0,9. In other words, when launching ten missiles on obstacles with remote sensing, there should be nine penetrations. The same applies to inpatient testing, when a TBT is placed relative to an armored obstacle with a DZ at the point “A” (Fig. 2) and is undermined. But due to the scattering of the missiles during firing, it turned out that the TTZ on the penetration of armored obstacles with remote sensing tandem warheads are not performed. The authors of the aforementioned methodology and the compilers of the TTZ did not take into account the fact that the guided weapon has dispersion and the missiles with TBC when fired hit various points along the entire surface of the RS blocks. Based on the analysis of the Act of GI anti-tank guided projectile 9М117М, part of 3, Vol. 1, military unit 21374, 1993 year ”Rafail Davliev set, for example, for the 9М117М rocket when firing at a range of 5 km, the frequency of penetration of an armored obstacle equipped with a DZ was 0,56, not 0,9.

What is attractive point "A" when conducting inpatient tests? At this point, there are favorable conditions for overcoming the DZ tandem warhead. The lead charge (5), located inside the head compartment of the rocket, during an explosion completely destroys it and part of the instrument compartment following it. In this position, the EDS (1, 2) and BDZ-1 (1) fragments scattering from the explosion do not affect the OZ (8) and the channel for the passage of the cumulative jet (7), which ensures the normal functioning of the main cumulative charge on the “bare” armor.

The positive evaluation of the article by Rafail Davliev is deserved by the results of experimental studies carried out by him on the initiating ability of leading charges with armor penetration 110 – 150 mm in the areas of dynamic protection AB, BC, CD (see fig. 2). In this case, LZ explosions were carried out, which were established taking into account the focal lengths in the above-mentioned areas. At section AB, the cumulative jet LZ (5) passes through two DZ elements (1, 2). In this case, OZ is removed from the explosive effect of the DZ and the decrease in armor penetration is minimal. In the area between points “B” and “C”, the cumulative LZ jet excites detonation in the upper EDS (1), which is transmitted by the EDS (2). In this position, the RS acts on the main charge (8) through the main engine (6) located in front, which reduces the armor penetration of the OZ.

And finally, the CD segment proved to be insurmountable for LZ 9М128, 9М119М, 9М113М, 9М117М missiles. At the same time, the main reason for the lack of solution of the DZ is laid in the design of the TBC. It is known that in rockets due to the mass-dimensional limitations of the LZ has armor penetration 110 – 150 mm. But not all areas of the cumulative LZ jet are capable of causing explosive detonation in the EHD. Only the leading part of this jet with a length of the order of 30 mm causes detonation. After the interaction of the cumulative jet with the top and side of the container (I) and EDS (1), as well as with the side of the next container (II), its leading part is completely spent on overcoming all the listed obstacles. The remaining less high-speed part of the cumulative LZ jet is no longer capable of initiating explosive detonation in EDS (3, 4). Under these conditions, the cumulative jet OZ, having ensured detonation in EDS (3, 4), loses up to 70% armor penetration.

It should be noted that in the experiments LZ ATGM 9М133 “Kornet” with armor penetration 200 mm were used, which in all experiments ensured the initiation of all EDS blocks (I, II).

INFORMATION TO THOUGHT

The title of the article by Rafail Davliev “Improving the evaluation of the effectiveness of tandem cumulative warheads” does not correspond to the content of the materials presented in it. Essentially, the article is devoted to the issues of assessing the armor penetration rate of a TBT when interacting with barriers equipped with remote sensing devices. At present, there is a “Methodology for the comprehensive assessment of the effectiveness of the AF-CU effectiveness, taking into account the overcoming of dynamic protection”, created by the staff of TsNIITM, TsNIIHM, 42261 military unit in 1984 year. Of course, this technique needs improvement.

Rafail Davliev conducted a study on the vicious practice of testing the TBH on obsolete guidelines of the last century. There were two reasons for the decline in the quality of the article. The first reason is that the editorial staff of the Military Thought journal, having reduced the volume of the material, made the discrepancy of the illustrative material with the text of the article. For example, the names of 1 and 3 figures do not correspond to their content, etc. The second reason is that Davliev did not use a number of papers on the issues raised in the article, which did not allow him to draw deeper conclusions. So, the works published in the journals were ignored: “Ammunition”, No. 4, 1991; No. 8, 1992; No. 1 and No. 2, 1996; "Bulletin of armored vehicles" № 5, 1990; No. 1, 1991; No. 11, 1991; Defense Engineering Issues, Series V, 3 Edition (147), 1991; 3 (152), 1992, and others.

Summarizing the results of overcoming the DZ by tandem warheads of ATGM based on the materials of Rafail Davliev and others, the following can be noted:

- testing and testing of TBCh ATGM is still ongoing in the Russian BDZ-1, BDZ-2 units, which are not analogous to foreign DZ (NVO No. 31, 1999; No. 29, 2001; No. 8, 2003; No. 13, 2008 ; No. 45, 2011);

- ATGM 9М128 (“Zenit”), 9М119М (“ower”), 9М113М (“Competition-M”), 9М117М (“Arkan”) when firing at the maximum range overcome hinged DZ with a probability of no more than 99% over an -99-% -99-mm-99.92 outdated foreign tanks М0,56, М1А1, equipped with remote sensing ("NVO" number 1, 24);

- Domestic TBCH ATGM 9М123 (“Chrysanthemum”), 9МXNUMHem (“Cornet”), 133A9K (“Vortex-M”), 4172M9D (“Attack”), and others. “NVO” No. 120, 400), but, despite the high armor penetration of the main charge, modern foreign tanks will hit when they fire at their frontal zones with a probability of no more than 500 – 0,5;

- all adopted by domestic ATGM with TB, do not overcome the tandem DZ of foreign tanks;

- armor packages of complex obstacles, imitating frontal fragments of protection, currently do not reflect the development of protection of foreign tanks that have undergone modernization.

Fig. 2. Sites reduce the initiating ability of the leading charges TBCh ATGM: I, II - blocks mounted DZ (BDZ-1); 1, 2, 3, 4 - DZ (E) elements; Point A - determines the conditions for conducting in-patient tests of TBH; areas AB, BC, CD - where there was a decrease in the initiating ability of LZ; 5 - leading charge; 6 - marching engine; 7 - channel for the passage of a cumulative jet of the main charge; 8 - the main charge; 9 - armored plate. Note: in contact with point “A”, the 9М119М rocket is shown in case of a stationary detonation.

The experimental studies that were carried out allowed me (“NVO” No. 31, 1999) to establish that with the length of foreign DZ 400 – 500 mm blocks, domestic TBPs would not overcome them if they hit the upper half of the DZ container, since the main the charge will be destroyed even before the start of operation. To which the chief and chief designer of KBM Nikolai Gushchin responded (“NVO” No. 44, 1999): “Mikhail Rastopshin builds all his reasoning, considering only extreme conditions:

- if getting into a tank, then only in the forehead;

- if hit in the DZ, then only in the zone unfavorable to the work of the warhead.

It should be recalled that, in accordance with the TTZ, state tests are necessarily carried out by shooting at frontal tank defense simulators equipped with a DZ. It is appropriate to note that the TBCh ATGM “Chrysanthemum” has a low probability of overcoming the real construction of a foreign DZ. The TBC of this missile is well overcome by the DZ of only Soviet tanks.

At the same time, it is impossible to ignore the field of research covered in the article by Rafail Davliev. As a rule, very old and ineffective anti-tank systems and their unpromising carriers are considered. An example is the 9MX. "); 117-mm rifled gun D10-T10 tank T-1 (KUV "Bastion"); 10-mm rifled gun 2А10 BMP-3; 100-mm smooth-bore gun U12TS tank T-100 (KUV "Sheksna").

A very old 9М128 rocket was used when firing 125-mm cannons of T-64B, T-80B tanks and was intended to destroy MXXUMX tanks. And finally, a ZUBK1 shot with an ineffective ATGM 20М9М, which, when fired from 119-mm cannon tanks T-125, T-72U, T-80C, was supposed to hit tanks M90, M1X1. But as a result of modernization, these tanks are practically absent in the troops. The probability of these modern missiles M1А1 being hit by firing at the frontal most protected zones is 2.

GRAU and 3CNII MO is time to pay attention to new and upgraded foreign tanks, for the defeat of which requires new missiles and the appropriate methods of their tests.

In reference books and textbooks for ATGM with TBC, it is stated that all of them either provide for overcoming of DZ or defeat of modern and promising tanks equipped with DZ (see Russia's Arms. - M., Military Parade Publishing House, 2000). But the experimental data presented suggest otherwise. The question is, whom are we deceiving? Our military, who are considered equipped with modern weapons.

The creation of anti-tank systems was accompanied by a set of guidance documents that are now hopelessly outdated. Thus, the Methodology for the integrated assessment of the effectiveness of the AF missile shield with overcoming dynamic protection created in 1984 did not take into account the development of combat characteristics of foreign armored vehicles, and the criteria for their defeat for the sixth generation of wars. Nonconventional methods of defeating tanks were not considered at all (“NVO” No.6, 2000). The issues of over-action of various ammunition are not finalized.

The guideline “The Composition of Complicated Barriers to Assessing Armor-Piercing Action of Anti-tank Ammunition (RD 401.1.6-454-85)”, created in 1985 by the Scientific and Research Institute of Steel, lost its practical significance. In this document, the presented obstacles do not reflect the structure of protection of foreign tanks. Instead of DZ imitators of foreign tanks, less effective DZ units mounted on Soviet armored vehicles were proposed.

The system of initial data on the vulnerability characteristics of typical elementary ground armored targets and anti-tank ammunition, created in 1983, requires immediate processing. Since the creation of this system, much has changed in foreign tank building, which is adapted to operate in the conditions of the sixth generation of wars. When creating a source data system for the sixth generation of wars, a more thorough study of the characteristics of the vulnerability of armored vehicles is required. If the pathologist examines the cause of death of a person or an animal, then a vulnerability specialist examines the “body” of the armored vehicle in order to find directions for its most effective damage.

Thus, the existing and currently used guidance documents do not provide an adequate level of organization and testing of new samples of ATGM with a TBP.

Military Thought magazine, in which an article by Rafail Davliev was published, published congratulations to the testing ground (military unit 21374) in connection with its 70 anniversary. The congratulation was signed by Major-General Alexander Romanovsky, head of the Main Directorate. I do not want to believe that the signature of Romanovsky extends to the further use of the outdated and unsuitable for practical application test methodology of ATGM with TBC, discussed in Davliev’s article. The organization by the editorial board of the Military Thought journal of serious opposition, combined with the expert opinion of experienced specialists, would undoubtedly improve the quality of the article by Rafail Davliev on the current problem of testing modern anti-tank systems.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

76 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Ty3uk
    +27
    April 2 2012 16: 07
    I read the first phrase "The conditions for testing weapons do not meet the estimates of the protection of foreign armored vehicles and hesitated.
    Read the last “The author Mikhail Mikhailovich Rastopshin is a candidate of technical sciences”
    I did not read further.

    Friends, this is Rastopshin - a famous echsperd and onalitek, reprinting of his article has long been considered bad form.
    1. kPoJluK2008
      +14
      April 2 2012 16: 19
      I will support about the expert!
      Well, as for the missiles themselves, one old tankman once told me about their use, and how ineffective they are, it is shorter reliable to fire a projectile than a missile.
      1. +15
        April 2 2012 17: 43
        It seems, guys, that they send us politely ... otherwise they hint culturally - "Guys! Don't worry about defending yourself, the bourgeoisie are stronger and they will overcome you!" Now I am re-reading Pikul "Paulus". Hitler reasoned the same way ... And where is he now? fool Russia remains a mystery that cannot be resolved to this day, however pathetic it may sound and, at times, won its victories not because of, but contrary to the efforts of the commanders.
        1. +13
          April 2 2012 20: 05


          Good evening, Valera! I read the article, this is not an expert, but some kind of gopnik. I believe that the best experts on our ATGMs are Hesbala fighters and Israeli tankers, who were first burned for a reason in the recent past, including Merkava-4. Well, let him go there and ask if the miracle of tanks is good after getting a Russian ATGM. And about the Russian riddle, you're one hundred percent right. May we astonish the adversary, oh how can!
          1. +3
            April 2 2012 20: 24
            Victor,
            I am glad to welcome you, Victor! You're right, my friend, it's good to sit and scribble expert opinions on order for not frail grandmothers! But in the course of the "lead" the Israelis realized that impudently, with the power of tanks - you can get through and I would like to see how this expert reacts to the sound of a shot or a mine. Shake your hand, Victor! drinks
            1. +2
              April 2 2012 21: 18
              lol Damn .. I can’t expertize on such an expert ... He shot personally at the shooting range at the training site ... And you ... EEEEEh ... And also officers, Mlyn ... Well, he got an ATGM or ATGM training. .. well I didn’t break through the armor ... They laughed and forgot ... laughing
              1. -1
                April 2 2012 22: 05
                Quote: domokl
                Damn .. I can’t expertize on such an expert ... He shot personally at the shooting range at the training site ... And you ... EEEEEh ... And also officers, Mlyn ... Well, he got an ATGM or ATGM training. .. well I didn’t break through the armor ... They laughed and forgot ...


                As you say - laughing laughing lol lol laughing laughing drinks
          2. +3
            April 3 2012 00: 11
            Quote: Victor
            I believe that the best experts on our ATGMs are Hesbala fighters and Israeli tankers, who were first burned for a reason in the recent past, including Merkava-4. Well, let him go there and ask if the miracle of tanks is good after getting a Russian ATGM

            Well, yes, the ATGMs remained Soviet-made, but the little ones the NATO malechs have gotten from those distant times ... And it seems to me that the situation is now a little different ...
        2. +5
          April 3 2012 00: 01
          Quote: esaul
          Russia remains a mystery that cannot be resolved to this day, however pathetic it may sound and, at times, won its victories not because of, but contrary to the efforts of the commanders.

          Mostly at the cost of huge human losses !!! How long can you put up with such a situation? Or do you think it's okay to go to a tank with a saber ?! On TV, we are shown only successful samples of military equipment, immediately saying that it surpasses foreign counterparts in everything without going into comparisons and nuances! And everyone must believe in it at once. But it is clear that the difference is often in the nuances and "little things"! And what will come of it, God only knows ...
      2. PLO
        +4
        April 2 2012 17: 53
        one old tanker

        but more specifically it is possible?
        What kind of ATGMs are we talking about?
        and then such a thought sounds somewhat wild, because if the OBPS is more effective than ATGMs, then what for they are generally needed
        1. Aleksey67
          +4
          April 2 2012 17: 57
          Quote: olp
          more specifically, what kind of ATGMs are we talking about?

          Well, you stuck to a man, they told you clearly
          Quote: olp
          one old tankman once told me about using them

          One old tanker, sitting in his tank, used an ATGM. A tank for decommissioning, an old "expert" tanker in the use of ATGMs wassat

          Guys, I'm sorry, but the mood, like the article of "Xspaird", is stupid drinks
          1. Igorboss16
            +4
            April 2 2012 18: 06
            Yes, I'm from RPG 7 if I need Abrams to disable if necessary, and where does such data about such armor protection come from? what they experienced in battlefield laughing
            1. +12
              April 2 2012 18: 21
              Of course, there is still half the strip of life of the tank after the shot remained;)))
              1. Aleksey67
                0
                April 2 2012 21: 22
                Quote: urzul
                Of course, there is still half the strip of life of the tank after the shot remained;)))

                urzul, damn it accidentally pressed on "-", before such squint did not suffer smile I compensate for 2 "+" in other articles ... Purely humanly good

                And now on the topic:
                half of the tank's life strip remained, by the way the old tanker shot at the "floor" wink

                Sorry, I respect, as a Human and such a "jamb", "+" put, once again making sure that you have to be restrained feel
              2. -1
                April 2 2012 22: 41
                Quote: urzul
                Of course, there is still half the strip of life of the tank after the shot left

                Smiled your comment, dear ...
    2. +17
      April 2 2012 18: 12
      What is the difference - it’s better to keep up than not to watch.
      And it was high time for the FSB to bring Abrams to the proving ground, just as the KGB and intelligence did under the USSR.
      Nothing stands still ---- the war of the sword and the shield is eternal.
      Therefore, it is necessary to increase the power of both anti-tank systems and the protection of their own tanks.
      1. Ty3uk
        +2
        April 2 2012 19: 07
        Quote: Kars
        Therefore, it is necessary to increase the power of both anti-tank systems and the protection of their own tanks.

        What do chickens not peck for money?
        We have excellent ATGMs, just the old senile Rastopshin is not up to date.
        1. +3
          April 2 2012 20: 50
          Well enough on Mistal, not even saying that ATGMs can be sold and this is a business.
          Israel with its Spike has already exhausted a billion dollars from INDIA (the Russian business territory).
    3. Korvin
      -1
      April 2 2012 21: 06
      I’ve also turned into a question in the title of the article. What kind of PRK and which tanks? In general, foreign ones aren’t completely Leopard2A7 + Merkava4 Leclerc and Abraams, but also a bunch of junk of different types in service. Cornets and Métis aren’t afraid of them? my trouble is not that they’re not terrible, but the fact that the last generation ATGM in our troops has been miscalculated twice. And to those who aren’t afraid, they’ll add from the KA52 the Alligator, or even the x29l from the attack aircraft.
    4. +1
      April 2 2012 21: 14
      And I read it carefully ... Just because it was interesting to compare the results of tests and real shooting at real objects ... The expert sent the utter bullshit ... It corresponds to reality exactly half ...
      What a day is today .. Just like Vysotsky’s ... They frighten me with plates, they say vile ones fly, then your dogs bark, they say your ruins .... ATGMs not only actually work on armored vehicles, but are also used to destroy and enemy shelter, manpower in caves and buildings, vehicles, etc. laughing
  2. YARY
    +8
    April 2 2012 16: 15
    RPG-2 and bassoon (9K111) that's all the anti-tank "joy" that was available to us in Syria and Lebanon. And "Merkavka" received in full! True, one ear I did not hear well for a year and a half.
    The article is replete with technical terms and assessments. The conclusions that are made on the basis of chamber experiments are interesting. But "Abrashki" were burning in Iraq and not from mythical means but from our RPG-7 AND "CORNETS" !!!
    Article plus for provocation.
    1. Shohmansur
      +8
      April 2 2012 16: 26
      I am not an expert in this matter, but I myself saw (on TV, of course) how the brave Iraqi partisan shinned RPG-7 from the bridge over the Abrams tower, shmnal from above. Either the American tank with its crew was not familiar with the development and production of rocket-propelled grenade launchers, or the shooter was illiterate - he did not bother to familiarize himself with this article. But the tank was smoking like a leaky stove from all the cracks, and the brave crew was pulled out by the comrades who arrived in time.
      And the men do not know (s)
      1. Neighbor
        +2
        April 2 2012 17: 14
        Our RPG - 7 - pierces the American Abrams - this is a fact. Such boasted tanks are with the Americans. What can I say about modern Russian ATGMs. No wonder - half the world - the Russian arms purchases!
        If the Soviet air defense installation - was able to intercept the signal of the American-Russian top-secret and latest UAV, took control of it - and put it on its airfield! wassat - safe and sound!
        By the way - what is it with him - with the UAV - what is his fate then?
        1. +1
          April 2 2012 21: 15
          An exact reduced copy was sent to Obama.
          1. Aleksey67
            -2
            April 2 2012 21: 18
            Quote: sedoj
            An exact reduced copy was sent to Obama.


            During the practical examination wassat
            1. Eugene
              +6
              April 2 2012 21: 54
              People, do not forget that:

              Rebels in all parts of the world have old RPG-7 rockets, the kind that everyone associates with RPG-7 is caused by an old rocket of the 60s - PG-7V / vl, it pierces 300 millimeters. Neither Abrams nor Merkava ever hit her forehead to take. Therefore, they hit the MTO and the roof, well, and in thin sides abrashki naturally.
              If you want a 45-ka, Abrams will also be slamming at a successful combination of circumstances.

              Therefore, there is nothing to rejoice and swagger about.
              1. Pessimist
                +2
                April 2 2012 23: 47
                Plus you! Any modern MBT thirty-four in the side will kill! Simple armor-piercing. BUT!!! First: it is if it is on the training ground or accidentally from an ambush. In a real battle, the old tank will be destroyed from 2x-3x km. Secondly: it is not in vain that they intensively protect the forehead of the tank, this is the most likely place to hit in battle! Third: even if the article is more than delusional, but "there is no smoke without fire"! I shake your hand, there really is nothing to be happy about ...
              2. Shohmansur
                +1
                April 3 2012 15: 03
                So the old grenade, and the new modifications? And the same American ATGM, it also does not hit a lobeshnik, but from above! And remember Basra, there were also old Soviet systems and new western tanks. True towers of these newest tanks flew only on the road!
                My opinion is far from hatred, any weapon needs to be improved. And we must remember the weapon howls great with a similar weapon. Want to fill up the F-16, hit it with the Stinger, not the Needle. Do you want to set fire to the T-72, beat the bassoon. And yet, we must agree, our anti-tank weapons have worked well, including in battles with domestic tanks.
    2. 0
      April 14 2012 02: 15
      it seems to me that many who have spoken here are distorting, I read an article there that says about the frontal projection (traditionally the most protected), and not about the engine compartment lid, and the 5 km range that RPG 7 now hits so far? Yes, and at the cornet, I think the probability of hitting at a distance of 5 km will also be lower than the 100 m on which it was tested. And it was all about the fact that the probability of defeat (i.e., hit and penetration) by order should have been 0,9, but in real life less than 0,6 (But because of the dispersion of the missiles during the shooting, it turned out that the TTZ for breaking through armored obstacles The authors of the aforementioned methodology and the compilers of the TTZ did not take into account that the guided weapon has dispersion and missiles with TFCs during firing fall to various points on the entire surface of the remote sensing units. Based on the analysis of the “Act of GI anti-tank guided missile 9M117M, part 3, book 1, military unit 21374, 1993 "Rafail Davliev usta Obil, e.g., for missile 9M117M during firing at a distance of 5 km relative frequency penetration bronepregrady equipped DZ, was 0,56 instead of 0,9).
      No comments ...
  3. Igor Vladimirovich
    +5
    April 2 2012 16: 30
    I am confident in the superiority of Russian weapons, at least on the basis that they will not buy abroad a low-quality product for currency. But for export is a stripped-down version of military equipment.
    1. Pessimist
      0
      April 3 2012 00: 05
      I also hope for the superiority of OUR technology! But I remember the 41st ... 600 KV and more than 1000 T-34s burned down on the battlefields, and only 4,5% from aviation, and 83% from artillery fire. And the German T-3, T-4, CZECH 36 (t), 38 (t) with 30mm frontal armor beat them ... For some reason, everyone remembered that the HF used to withstand dozens of hits, and the T-34 from a kilometer Hole ALL ALL fascist tanks! BUT!!! The Germans in 41m came to Moscow! Not tanks fight, but people! Russians cannot be defeated!
  4. +19
    April 2 2012 16: 30
    This pretzel always messes up ... whatever they release in Russia, "Mikhail Mikhailovich Rastopshin - candidate of technical sciences" appears and says that all this is inferior to NATO and good rubbish, on this he defended his candidate ... If he is like that smart, then he should be put in the Abrams, and I will shoot at him with an ATGM ..., it is interesting to agree, no ???
    1. Sergh
      +2
      April 2 2012 17: 33
      ekebastus, they need to be filled with a full tank of such competent ones, and I will bring harder grenades to you.
    2. Igorboss16
      -1
      April 2 2012 18: 10
      Yes, even pturs inappropriately from the grenade launcher for auxiliary power plant which provides current to the electronics and he will come in short complete scribe
      1. Eugene
        +1
        April 2 2012 22: 16
        provides when the main engine is disabled. fool
        In battle, they usually don’t turn it off. wink
        1. +2
          April 3 2012 00: 43
          In this case, it is not energy supply, namely, the fire is the most dangerous.
          and from the grenade launcher it will be damaged by chance, but from the DShK it’s quite.
          1. Eugene
            +1
            April 3 2012 02: 45
            Andrei, what's the point of damaging him in battle? I don’t understand if the fire spreads, then everything is clear, but simply disable it?
            1. +1
              April 3 2012 11: 55
              You are not asking the right question. Damage = fire. Everything else is not important, it is important that this can be done from a heavy machine gun.
  5. coast
    +3
    April 2 2012 16: 32
    such candidates need to be planted, otherwise it’s all crap
  6. vvp2412
    +3
    April 2 2012 16: 36
    I looked in the internet who this author is senile. Alas and ah! Normal troll. Type Latynina.

    Our ATGMs are bad !? Well, of course. Even if the RPG-7 burns NATO equipment and the vaunted Abrams, then what can we say about the type of "backward" TBCH!

    I did not even read his nonsense after the introduction, because one diarrhea!
    1. Eugene
      +3
      April 2 2012 22: 17
      Also think that the RPG-7 will take Abrams in the forehead?
      1. +1
        April 3 2012 01: 19
        )))) damn funny RPG-7, it’s just basically a pipe ... all the magic in the shot, it is stated that the PG-7ВР "Summary" / 7П28 has armor penetration DZ + 600mm. The frontal armor of a lamb is about 800 mm from cumulative weapons. Lamb does not have DZ ... so such a shot for the war chariot of democracy is still that nuisance).
      2. vvp2412
        +1
        April 3 2012 09: 18
        RPG is a device that launches rocket-propelled grenades, and there are a lot of these grenades. Including with TBT!

        He won’t take Abrashu in the forehead - definitely, so what stupid person will do it? Even a suicide bomber may not have time to shoot. But the sides, the back of the tower - yes!
  7. +9
    April 2 2012 16: 59
    I am not an expert in this subject, therefore I will not judge. My opinion on abrams is: -tigers burned like candles and abrams will burn like nice ones.
    Will-will doubt it.

    I am not an expert in this subject, therefore I will not judge. My opinion on abrams is: -tigers burned like candles and abrams will burn like nice ones.
    Will-will doubt it.

    I am not an expert in this subject, therefore I will not judge. My opinion on abrams is: -tigers burned like candles and abrams will burn like nice ones.
    Will-will doubt it.
  8. mind1954
    0
    April 2 2012 17: 00
    Well, do not do anything and that’s it! The fifth column frolics as it wants!

    What does this demonstrate? One part of a powerful thieves' gang
    believes that you need to give up and sell the country for how much they give,
    and the other believes that you can still bargain, portraying
    all sorts of ups ... production ... science ... and so on!
  9. Brother Sarych
    +3
    April 2 2012 17: 29
    In terms of the degree of annoyance and clutter of the record, this author shares the lead with the leading historian Sokolov with his studies of Soviet losses in the Second World War, but Latynina specializes in another field ...
    Personally, I realized who the author is already by title ...
  10. Aleksey67
    +6
    April 2 2012 17: 37
    Wow, I would put this confident "Xperd" in a tank as a dummy and ... Dreams, dreams, and how I wanted smile
    1. 0
      April 2 2012 18: 08
      Better yet, launch a brilliant expert instead of a rocket. True, before launch, he will scribble a bunch of articles about the inefficiency of using a person as a warhead ...
  11. +4
    April 2 2012 18: 29
    It seems that someone is trying to inspire us with the idea that Russia is doing poorly, everything is miserable and ineffective. Like, you can’t rock the boat, confess, Russians, you’re nothing. They didn’t work in the elections, but attempts to humiliate and weaken Russia do not stop and continue in the future. Most importantly, do not panic and do not give up. And do your thing, for the good of the country.
    1. Ty3uk
      +1
      April 2 2012 19: 10
      So it is and the loot under it has been flowing for a long time already.
      The main thing is that our people are quick-witted, they went through hardening in the 90s, now you won’t take us with any heresy!
  12. +4
    April 2 2012 18: 32
    What kind of nonsense? Just yesterday I watched a video about the 32 RPG and its tests, during the 32 RPG tests I shot through the armor in the 1 meter. They shot at Abrams, though not the last modification, after the shot, the manhole cover was torn off. What kind of opera, let's all raise our hands and surrender to the United States? The Americans in Iraq shied away from the 7 RPG, all checks are carried out with them using it, then they blow that they withstood the hit of the 7 RPG. The RPG 32 is superior to his head and the abrams will click like rotten nuts.
    1. Ty3uk
      +1
      April 2 2012 19: 15
      Quote: Joker
      Just yesterday I watched a video about RPG 32 and its tests, during tests of RPG 32 I broke through 1 meter armor.

      Yes, half the country already knows this, but the blind Rastopshin sees nothing and writes the same thing from year to year.
      Well, you have to earn some money for the old man. And the demand from liberalists for his articles is steady. So it’s easier to ignore.
    2. Aleksey67
      +2
      April 2 2012 21: 17
      Joker, the impression is that April 1 continues smile
      1. +1
        April 3 2012 00: 00
        Aha and don't say smile and also a candidate of technical sciences smile
  13. Airparen109
    +1
    April 2 2012 18: 44
    Where does this data come from? Maybe you can also say that foreign ATGMs penetrate our armor. That's bullshit. We even have the BMP-3, thanks to the built-in dynamic reactive armor, it keeps hits from grenade launchers and modern portable anti-tank missiles. But about our ATGMs against foreign armor, I will say that in 2003 there were noticeable American losses of the vaunted Abrams tanks, struck not only by the hit of the Soviet Shturm missile (from the Iraqi Mi-24) into the tank, but just a couple of unpretentious old RPG-7 ... The British Challenger 2 tank proved to be much better, but they also managed to knock it out like that. And not so long ago, in the battles of Israel and the Hezbollah grouping, the newest, one of the most protected Israeli Merkava-4 tanks were shamefully knocked out by Russian portable ATGM Kornet (which Hezbollah got from Syria). And in general, there have been plenty of successful combat checks of our anti-tank weapons in the 21st century.
    1. elfxnumx
      +2
      April 2 2012 22: 12
      for all the time, only one Challenger was destroyed on March 25, 2003, moreover, as a result of "friendly fire"
      Well, so during the assault on Basra, one of the Challengers received 70 hits from the RPG and returned with his own power to the base. after 6 hours of repair went into battle again

      And not so long ago, in the battles of Israel and the Hezballah grouping, the newest, one of the most protected Israeli tanks Merkava-4 were shamefully knocked out

      if you believe hezbole, they destroyed more merkava tanks than were generally used in this operation
      Well, according to Chechen terrorists, the losses in the Caucasus during the 2nd war amounted to 1 million Russian soldiers
      trust these nonsense for less
  14. Railways
    +1
    April 2 2012 18: 46
    Well, then nothing will be old-fashioned with Molotov Cocktails to throw tanks, since they are not taking rockets. . .
  15. +6
    April 2 2012 18: 53
    The old woman TM-62M with the MVCh-62 will stop Abrams and give the crew a shot on the head !!!
    1. Sergh
      +3
      April 2 2012 19: 03
      taseka That's it, this should be put under the candidates of technical sciences, mishandled robes.
  16. +3
    April 2 2012 19: 05
    I ask you to pay attention to the author reports on hits in the frontal armor, and as far as I know the abrams will take even the PTRD.
  17. +1
    April 2 2012 20: 41
    If you believe the pictures of the Abams from Iraq, then they had enough shells. And then the "corvette" takes the same Abrams in a frontal projection ..
  18. Odessa
    +5
    April 2 2012 21: 04
    Pease ... c crept up, like, imperceptibly. I and our officers knew about "this rake" back in the mid-late 90s, when I was studying in artukh. And things have been there since then. Tin.
    1. +7
      April 2 2012 21: 49
      I correctly understood that the author’s point of view, at least, has the right to exist, or is it even close to reality?
      1. 0
        April 14 2012 02: 27
        Yes, it has. so far no rebuttal except
        "And not so long ago, in the battles of Israel and the Hezbollah grouping, the newest, one of the most protected Israeli Merkava-4 tanks were shamefully knocked out by Russian portable ATGM Kornet (which Hezbollah got from Syria)."
        and the answer is
        "for all the time, only one Challenger was destroyed on March 25, 2003, moreover, as a result of" friendly fire "
        Well, so during the assault on Basra, one of the Challengers received 70 hits from the RPG and returned with his own power to the base. after 6 hours of repair went into battle again

        And not so long ago, in the battles of Israel and the Hezballah grouping, the newest, one of the most protected Israeli tanks Merkava-4 were shamefully knocked out

        if you believe hezbole, they destroyed more merkava tanks than were generally used in this operation
        Well, according to Chechen terrorists, the losses in the Caucasus during the 2nd war amounted to 1 million Russian soldiers
        believe these nonsense less "
  19. +1
    April 2 2012 21: 08
    "Cornet" according to the classification of the United States Defense Ministry and NATO: AT-14 Spriggan) development of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau.
    Penetration: 1000-1200 mm of homogeneous armor per DZ (at an angle of 90 °) and this is not the last option, there are more perfect ones!
    Abrams breaks aboard from KPVT 14.5 ... (in the VSU area)
  20. Nymp
    0
    April 2 2012 21: 11
    I put a minus to the author, he dug a bunch of opposite information on the Internet! This type clearly set out to falsify all the good in the domestic defense industry.
  21. +6
    April 2 2012 21: 13
    What good fellows we are all - it is clear from the comments ... But no one answered the "old senile" in essence, only from the standpoint of hurray-patriotism ... But I would like a sensible refutation (or confirmation) not at the level - "we we will make everyone ", and at the level - a short DZ is not worse than a long one (which is not obvious), the choice of the point of penetration is normal (someone thinks that our ATGM will hit correctly, but theirs is wrong?). rigging is in no way peculiar to our people (money and regalia do not mean anything for our people, the main thing is "I led you, I will be responsible for everything - Zhvanetsky"). I did not see anything in the article that cannot be. Therefore, I would like to see a calm and well-reasoned comment - but what about your (competent) point of view? And then I "tensed like electricity - Down House": according to Rastopshin (if there is one), not only our ATGMs are so-so, but our DZ is no better ...
    1. +1
      April 2 2012 22: 53
      Quote: alex86
      But something no one "old senile" answered in essence


      so they are not here for that. they need to promote themselves and hang virtual "stars" on their epaulets.

      and on the real combat properties of ATGMs and DZ deep purple.

      on their effectiveness in comparison with Western counterparts, as well as on the advantages and disadvantages of both, it also hurt
    2. +1
      April 3 2012 02: 00
      Judging not by numbers, but by the results of combat use - in Iraq, the RPG-29 "Vampire" (development of the 80s) pierced the frontal (!) Armor of the "Challenger"! About the impressions of the Jews - already said above. On the other hand - - the vaunted Israeli "Spike" in 2010 almost ditched the admission commission in Peru (though the Peruvians bought it all the same along with the Russian "Cornets"). It is difficult to judge the effectiveness of any exotic "Javelins", but in my opinion they lose to the same " Cornetu "due to its narrow specialization - the Russian missile can work both on tanks and on various structures (1000 for Gamogenka, 3000 for concrete), exotic with a shock core - only a tank.
  22. kontrzasada20
    +3
    April 2 2012 21: 33
    My son studies everything related to tanks and equipment at the age of 13, he already cuts domestic and foreign military equipment at the Chemical and Chemical Complex in the TCA, he hooked him on modeling and spends his free time well.

    Death to the German invaders!
    10.12.1942

    Memo to the crew of the tank in battle
    Tanker, remember that the main strength of your tank in battle is in its powerful fire and rapid attack. The main form of fire and tanks on the enemy - firing from the move.

    Tanks are the only kind of troops that simultaneously combines speed, powerful fire and armor protection. The crew of the tank must always maintain the tank in constant readiness for battle, regardless of any difficulties. The crew of the tank does not have the right to rest or even take food until its tank is put on alert and disguised. The constant combat readiness of the tank is a decisive condition for the successful completion of the combat mission. A tank’s failure to go into battle or a tank stop when performing a combat mission due to the fault of the crew is a grave crime before the motherland. A tank crew in any conditions must fulfill a combat mission, act boldly, decisively and boldly, selflessly fight in the most difficult and difficult situations, steadily strive forward to fulfill the assigned combat mission and always render assistance to a comrade. Every wounded fighter must exert all his strength and continue the battle. If a tank is hit or crashed on the battlefield, the crew must protect it to the last possible ability, remembering that abandonment of the tank is regarded as cowardice of the crew and violation of the military oath.
    1. +1
      April 2 2012 21: 47
      Nice. Help your son?
      and this is mine
      1. kontrzasada20
        +2
        April 2 2012 22: 02
        Just great, wonderful. I wish you success. Unfortunately, the time of tanks managed by the crew is coming to an end, the development of anti-tank systems is many times faster than the development of tanks, so remote time is coming. sort of drones, there is no need to risk an expensive crew, there will simply be a lot of tanks with light armor as simple as Lada, but there will be many. control from satellites, there is already someone who will control (online game WORLD OF TANKS in this game almost ready online tankers) I waved, although to be honest, that is what my Son says so. I just published his opinion. And your T-54 is truly GREAT.
        1. +1
          April 2 2012 22: 25
          So not really ---- it's t-xnumx
          1. kontrzasada20
            +1
            April 2 2012 22: 31
            I beg your pardon, to blame - I will correct it. It is very similar to the T-54.
            1. kontrzasada20
              0
              April 2 2012 22: 54
              My son dissuaded me, but I still stubbornly kept repeating about the T-54.
              1. kontrzasada20
                0
                April 2 2012 23: 24
                And here is the T-62 in Georgia.
        2. Atlon
          +1
          April 3 2012 00: 33
          Quote: kontrzasada20
          sort of drones, there is no need to risk an expensive crew, there will simply be many tanks with light armor as simple as Lada, but there will be many. control from satellites, there is already someone who will control

          Guys ... When a real war begins between opponents in the same "weight category", all these "drones" will "break down" on the first day of the war. Simply because, first of all, the "players" destroy each other's space groups, and "rip off" the Internet! And to the heap, they also "knock out bosses" to computers! So do not flatter yourself! To play "WORLD OF TANKS" is good against Zimbabwe, well against Syria ... Against Russia, this will not work, I assure you. ;) Fascination with amers "computers", they can get cancer ... And our tankers, with a sledgehammer and a chisel, will repair their tank in the field, and then go to crush their "simple like Zhiguli" tanks, which will simply become completely unnecessary and expensive rubbish , without satellites, internet, computers and GPS. Yes
          1. +1
            April 3 2012 02: 16
            Well, tanks, starting with the T-72, seem to be protected from momentum and radiation
          2. FROST
            0
            April 3 2012 22: 18
            Simply because, first of all, the "players" destroy each other's space groups, and "rip off" the Internet!


            To date, they have not yet embodied the reality of effective methods of dealing with communication satellites in high orbits.
          3. kontrzasada20
            0
            April 4 2012 13: 36
            History has not seen wars between opponents of the same weight category for a long time, everything starts small. And the scenario of unmanned control, just a scenario and only, I just told what the child is thinking, in principle, to him to continue to live, that's your opinion is very interesting dear ATLON. But also forget the saying. that "ALL FATHER IS WAR" is also not worth it. Thank you for your comment.
  23. +1
    April 2 2012 21: 40
    It is doubtful whether the "Baby" ATGM was actively used in the Arab-Israeli war of 1973, hitting a large number of armored and auxiliary equipment. Egyptian operators achieved significant success in this war, the most successful of which were: Mohamed Ibrahim Abd el-Moneim al-Musri ( hit 27 tanks, including "Centurion" Lieutenant Colonel Asaf Yaguri), Abdel Moti Abdallah Issa (hit 26 tanks), Mohammed Abdel Ati Sharaf (hit 23 tanks and 4 units of other equipment. In total in 1973, according to the Arab side with the help of ATGM 9M14 was disabled about 800 Israeli tanks.
    Much later, missiles of this type were actively used against Israeli troops by the Hezzboll group, with their help in the mid-1990s, several Merkava Mark II and Magach 7A tanks were destroyed. In addition, ATGMs were used to destroy stationary objects such as bunkers and observation posts, effectively destroying the enemy's manpower "and this is the first generation, it is not such a super difficult task to create a charge with good armor penetration for normal engineers.
    1. +1
      April 2 2012 22: 56
      Quote: viruskvartirus
      "Malyutka ATGM" was actively used in the 1973 Arab-Israeli war


      the article is about the development of the 90's, not the 70's
      1. +1
        April 3 2012 00: 13
        I’m saying that so what, but you can create a normal cumulative charge and that Russian engineers can do this ... an example of a tandem warhead ... for RPG-27 and RPG-29 they were used by the mercenaries when they butted and showed themselves gloriously .. ..about RPG -32 and say nothing, it is being developed jointly with the Jordanians. Well, and most importantly, Metis and Kornet is the Tula Instrument Design Bureau, the famous GSh, they never did garbage ... these two people are just geniuses gunsmiths ...
  24. +1
    April 2 2012 22: 05
    If you take a look at the tank from the front and in the illustration of this article, we will find that the booking sections with the parameters given in this paper will be approximately 20-25% ... I must say that when a projectile hits, for various reasons (rebound, for example) the area of ​​problem areas will be approximately the same area ... That is, if you get into the mask, under the tower ... into the hatch ... the tank breaks through 100% .... In other places where the armor is not inclined, penetration is also quite high .. From personal experience I’ll say that from the side, any tank is hit from a manual rocket launcher (RPG-7) ... I practically didn’t shoot from the ATGM myself, but the guys before us defeated made a slide and stuck at an angle of 30-40 degrees ... ATGM weapons are secretive ... the carriers do not carry armor at all or are weakly armored. .. no one is now rolling out for direct fire ... Elephants didn’t carry dynamic defense, but they shot RPG-7, they burnt them as pretty ... So I think by and large the ATGMs are an ambush weapon for firing at say weak spots ..
  25. kavz56
    +4
    April 2 2012 22: 05
    And you don’t know how all ATGMs were received, in a hotel room behind a glass of cognac and the more the better.
    1. +1
      April 2 2012 22: 32
      So I think that rather for a glass and a plump bundle of greens for a snack ...
  26. Korvin
    0
    April 2 2012 23: 55
    No panic! Now, when the decisions run by Rheinmetall on the MVT revolution concept go into series, then shout-Everything disappeared, the boss all disappeared !!! In the meantime, it’s very expensive and it is not required to drive the Papuans. And in order not to become Papuans in a modern war Good air defense required.
  27. +1
    April 3 2012 00: 10
    Than cotton wool can roll better to shoot
  28. Atlon
    +2
    April 3 2012 00: 24
    Something on the site often articles about fur animals ... Either in the spring, or ... ??? Really liberalists got here too?
  29. Pessimist
    0
    April 3 2012 00: 25
    The article is, of course, alarming. Although everything is always bad for Rastopshin! But even if everything is true, it is still a battle! And in battle, the tank is not always turned with its forehead, towards everyone who shoots at it! "Tigers", too, oh what cool tanks were! Not like our T-34th! Received the same in the side and in the stern! although the ratio of losses is not in our favor ... But about DZ on NATO tanks ... Doubts torment. Israel has it, but NATO has never even heard of serial tanks! Who knows? AND THAT RASTOPSHIN IS ABOUT THEIR DZ SPEAKS.
    1. Korvin
      +1
      April 3 2012 00: 52
      Not applicable. The last where I saw their DZ is on Caiman’s MDR mounted on brackets for RPG gratings. A local self-made circle is skilled in hands. Everywhere where you can go to KAZ from it there are less collateral losses for dismounted infantry located in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle and civilians in case of modern conflict in urban settings. Only Russians and Israelis are so harsh ... wink In general, due to the anti-popism of recent wars, they have enough lattice armor from RPGs of 7 old modifications. From the latest developments, google Desenroth AMAP-ADS something between KAZ and DZ promise to shoot down even armor-piercing feathered subcaliber.
  30. 0
    April 3 2012 02: 59
    It looks like a continuation of the report at the scientific council of the research institute.
    Even intrigue is present.

    For me this is .............. If the turtle cannot be "pulled out", it must be turned over ........
    laughing feel laughing
  31. 0
    25 June 2022 16: 59
    Oh, they brought new hats ... Few people are interested in arguments when you can just get personal.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"