Military Review

Lugansk, November 2017: hibernation in Ukraine is over

55
Lugansk, November 2017: hibernation in Ukraine is over



If you want to win the battle, you have to manage it. The 20-23 November 2017 events in Lugansk showed that Moscow’s actions here were timely. For three days Igor Plotnitsky resisted and did not want to surrender power. And this means that it was impossible to talk about 100% controllability of processes in the LC from Moscow. And this has been fixed. For three days.

Igor Plotnitsky lost. And he lost, not when a column of military equipment from the territory of the DPR entered Lugansk, but much earlier. He lost when, having started his game, he could not remain necessary to the system.

Ukraine and Donbass are waiting for change

The fact that Ukraine as a whole, and in particular the Donbass, is waiting for a change, is not only said by the lazy one. In recent months, a lot of iconic events have happened and more should happen in the very near future.



Donald Trump gradually enters the course of affairs in Ukraine and begins his game there. Kurt Volker literally lives on a plane, jerking between Washington, European capitals and Kiev. He is trying to build the new relationship matrix for Trump so that it does not interfere with the chief’s main foreign policy task: reach an agreement with Russia and untie his hands against China and Iran. And here Washington is ready to make any "sacrifices." Until the complete withdrawal from Ukraine.

Of course, temporarily, the next “pro-Russian” president will not put all the negatives of the current pro-American “pan-Armenian” onto the head of Moscow.

Although it can not be excluded that Trump is playing with Putin and honestly.

This game really does not like the American "democratic" opposition that has lost power. She considers it a "zrada" and every time hints Trump to impeach. She still manages to put a spoke in the wheels of the new administration in the White House, but she wants more. The “Opposition” wants to blow up the situation in Ukraine, in order not only to drive a wedge between Trump and Putin and prevent them from reaching an agreement, but also to create a situation when any agreements between them will become impossible.

Anticipating provocations and possible complications, Moscow began to prepare the counter-play toolkit “for all occasions”.

To this end, in the summer of 2017, the idea of ​​creating “Little Russia” was thrown into the information space. Why is this done? If suddenly hotheads in Washington still risk starting a risky game of revolution against the “legitimate” Poroshenko, then Ukraine will quickly be constructed on the basis of Donbass, which will start the fight not for the former Donetsk and Lugansk regions (the LC and the DPR do not see themselves further ), and for the whole "Nenko." That is, until the Rava-Russian.



By the way, the project “Novorossiya” has not been forgotten either. He was laid on the shelf until the moment when Kiev started playing and finally disrupting the Minsk process. That, as we remember, was in the spring of 2015 of the year at the same time that the speaker of the Novorossiya parliament, Oleg Tsarev, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the DPR, Alexander Kofman, simultaneously reported on a temporary freeze of their “brainchild”.

And there is also the Minsk process itself, which so far is verbally committed to all parties to the conflict and all the “guarantors” behind them. And here too, according to the Kremlin strategists, nothing should prevent Moscow from pursuing its line.

Ukraine returns to editorial



It is already obvious that the two-year “hibernation” in Ukraine has come to an end, and therefore both Moscow and Washington must be completely sure that no local initiative will ruin their big game. And it is not by chance that we both in Kiev and Lugansk saw almost simultaneously similar processes. Washington and Moscow are beginning to restore the controllability of their “tools” in order to expand the fork of possible solutions for themselves in the future.

The US is not succeeding yet. Mykhomaydan loading, so plainly and not starting, and the anti-corruption scandals in the United States and Europe against Poroshenko have not yet given the expected result. The regime in Kiev tenaciously holds power in its hands and is not even going to share it with its American allies, which is great to prevent it from leading the Ukrainian party.

Moscow in Lugansk put things in order quickly, in just a few days. And by the end, she did not create any problems for herself and today she can appoint practically any person to the position of the “leader of the LPR”. Thus, the fork of further decisions she has dramatically expanded, and process control is fully restored. Today, Russia is ready from the republics of Donbass to blind everything that it needs. From fully obedient and sharpened under the Minsk process, the LC and the DNI to "Novorossiya" and "Little Russia" (or whatever they might be called). And most importantly, as quickly as possible.



And at the same time, they chased the local officials who were snickering, who disgrace her and those ideas that she personifies.

Which scenario will be historywill see. Why is it now pointless to guess about this? The fact is that Moscow does not need to hurry. She is completely satisfied with the processes that are happening in Ukraine today. She is ready for any development of events and has prepared for this a variety of tools.

Americans need to hurry. But they cannot start a meaningful and clear game, since they cannot regain full control over Kiev. There are too many ifs. "If" Trump can push his line ... If the American "opposition" can blow up the situation in Ukraine ... And so on. And therefore anything can happen.

The main result of the “optimization” of management in Lugansk is that Moscow is ready to respond quickly to any change in the situation. And even strike a blow on the enemy, if he makes a big mistake in his actions (and this is despite the chaos that is happening in Washington, it is quite possible) and will give her that opportunity.
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 24 November 2017 06: 31
    12
    What happened in reality, they have not yet informed us of mortals. Or they may not tell. And the fact that this time was to push the Minsk conspiracy from the dead center is completely obvious.
    1. Zibelew
      Zibelew 24 November 2017 07: 55
      28
      The Kremlin has not yet commented on anything. But it would be logical to combine both people's republics into one.
      1. dSK
        dSK 24 November 2017 09: 11
        +4
        The head of the self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic (LPR) Igor Plotnitsky arrived in Moscow. About it RBC said the deputy commander of the battalion for work with the personnel of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) writer Zakhar Prilepin. “I flew with him on the same plane, we met with him,” he said.
        Prilepin wrote on his VKontakte page that Plotnitsky flew to Moscow from Rostov on a regular flight. “Economy class, calm person without security. Generally one. We met with his eyes, he showed nothing. Doesn't look preoccupied. Almost peaceful, ”he emphasized. hi
      2. kapitan92
        kapitan92 24 November 2017 09: 40
        17
        Quote: Zibelew
        But it would be logical to combine both people's republics into one.

        It would be logical to plant a “Chekist floor” in Lugansk, following the example of the CIA’s actions in the Security Service of Ukraine and not allowing people like Plotnitsky to come to power in the LPR, filtering through checks of all his fraudsters.
        How many copies were broken, how many words were said into the void in 2014 and 2015 regarding the personnel policy in the Donetsk direction. And about the constant humiliation of field commanders-nuggets by Moscow curators (the same Motorola and Givi suffered this only with unprecedented willpower). And about the selection for political positions of "socially close" from the environment of Akhmetov and Kurchenko

        https://vz.ru/world/2017/11/23/896637.html
      3. 210ox
        210ox 24 November 2017 09: 57
        +2
        Tagiryan hi It’s time for the Kremlin to bail this tribunal .. Although ... How to say ... Between us, if he had acted differently, the Crimea might not have returned
        Quote: Zibelew
        The Kremlin has not yet commented on anything. But it would be logical to combine both people's republics into one.
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 25 November 2017 14: 23
          0
          .Between us, if he had acted differently, the Crimea is quite possible and would not have returned
          Have you completely forgotten Bolotov?
      4. horhe48
        horhe48 24 November 2017 11: 23
        13
        In any case, from the military point of view, the DNR and LNR corps should be under the same command. This is an axiom. In general, if we take economic issues, political processes, social problems, logistics, etc., then what is the point of separate existence DNI and LC? It seems that besides the local interest of the indigenous officials, there are no other explanations for this phenomenon.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 12: 39
          +5
          Quote: horhe48
          from the military point of view, the DNR and LNR corps should be under the same command. This is an axiom. And in general, if we take economic issues, political processes, social problems, logistics, etc., then what is the meaning of the separate existence of the DPR and LPR?

          What is the bazaar about? From the very beginning of the formation of the DPR and LPR, everyone expected the imminent emergence of the state of Novorossia! And the process was "going" in the beginning ....... what
          1. dSK
            dSK 24 November 2017 16: 24
            +7
            Hello Vladimir! [quote = Nikolaevich I]the process has started[/ Quote]
            A sabotage group of 10 people was detained by the state security organs of the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics. The detainees are suspected of preparing the killings of the heads of republics. It is specified that the detention operation was carried out jointly with representatives of the LPR and DPR. Saboteurs acted on the instructions of the main intelligence department (GUR) of Ukraine, says on friday November 24, representative of the press service of the Ministry of State Security of the DPR. "This group operated on the territory of both republics and is suspected of preparing attempts on a number of top officials of the DPR and LPR," the speaker adds.
            The investigation established that the detainees are not the only group created by the GUR of Ukraine. So, the "colleagues" of the defendants were previously detained in the LPR. According to investigators, they are involved in murders and attempts on the territory of the republic. Another part of the group came to Donetsk when an unsuccessful attempt was made to assassinate the Deputy Prime Minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic Alexander Timofeev. After these detentions, it was decided to conduct a joint operation by the DNR and LC. "The operational-search measures aimed at identifying all the persons included in the group are ongoing," the spokesman adds. (Orthodox Channel Tsargrad 14:42. 24.11.2017.) hi
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 25 November 2017 09: 14
              +1
              In general, while preserving the nominal "independence" of the republics, the state bodies of the DPR and LPR closely cooperate with each other and are possibly even interconnected by unity of command (unofficial). The process of unification is behind the scenes .... I think you wanted to say this?
      5. Igor Akimov
        Igor Akimov 25 November 2017 14: 07
        +1
        All this looks like a special operation to unite, as well as in order for Kiev to make a mistake in violation of the Minsk agreements ..... IMHO
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. boboss
      boboss 25 November 2017 13: 15
      0
      They told everyone everything .... only by surname we do not know anyone ...
  2. svp67
    svp67 24 November 2017 06: 32
    +3
    Who knows, maybe today's events in Lugansk are the forerunner of such events throughout Ukraine, to restore order.
  3. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 24 November 2017 06: 35
    10
    Well, finally, at least something moved, otherwise the process got stuck and the swamp began to rot!
    1. Romario_Argo
      Romario_Argo 24 November 2017 08: 56
      0
      this is a predictable development of events - one single republic is needed
      more will be further - now it will definitely be easier to introduce our peacekeepers
      and later, if Kiev continues shelling united republic, will receive an "answer" from the Russian Federation
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 24 November 2017 09: 28
      +4
      , at least something has moved
      Election sir! Before the current election, this is being pushed so that even after years we will clutch our heads.
  4. medvedron
    medvedron 24 November 2017 06: 50
    +8
    Everything is natural, Russia is ending the war in Syria, and will be able to closely engage in the Donbass. It is only a pity that a lot of normal men quit and died during this time of stagnation.
  5. Stas157
    Stas157 24 November 2017 07: 54
    +7
    . Today, Russia is ready to mold everything that it needs from the republics of Donbass. From completely obedient and imprisoned by the Minsk process, the LPR and the DPR to Novorossia and Little Russia (or whatever else they may call it). And most importantly, as quickly as possible.

    It is difficult to disagree with this, instead of a genuine popular New Russia, where there is no dominance of the oligarchs, two incomprehensible puppet fragments were obtained, completely managed by the Kremlin curators. And all who did not agree, all genuine national heroes, commanders - at a loss.
  6. win9090
    win9090 24 November 2017 09: 13
    +2
    History is as old as the world, grandmas simply did not share it. That's the whole mess.
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 24 November 2017 09: 25
      +6
      As Chancellor Bestuzhev said, “I think about Russia first, and then about myself, and you first about yourself, and then about Russia,” so what about "grandmas" you can think differently
      1. se-ma
        se-ma 24 November 2017 21: 34
        0
        Say one thing and do another. This is me about Bestuzhev.
  7. BAI
    BAI 24 November 2017 09: 20
    0
    And here Washington is ready to make any "sacrifices." Until the complete departure from Ukraine.

    What does this follow from? While we see the opposite picture.
  8. Horst78
    Horst78 24 November 2017 09: 22
    +1
    something like that, like him.
  9. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 24 November 2017 09: 27
    +6
    As they say, it burned down at work, but the work flow tightened, while the enemy was at war it was visible.
  10. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 24 November 2017 09: 35
    +3
    And here Washington is ready to make any "sacrifices." Until the complete departure from Ukraine.
    Is there at least one confirmation of this opus ?! The other day, such news came out fellow
    “The House of Representatives of the US Congress approved the draft law on the US budget for 2018 for the needs of the national defense, which allows the allocation of 350 million dollars to provide assistance to Ukraine in the field of security. This amount corresponds to last year’s appropriation level "
    Thus, the plug for further solutions has expanded dramatically, and process control has been fully restored.
    Again, this kind of expanding "fork" laughing - the phrase is certainly beautiful, but how it relates to the events described is incomprehensible. In fact, some security officials blamed others - than this Cornet (whose daughter is studying at the prosecutor in Kharkov) is not known in principle better than Plotnitsky; among the heroes of the Russian Spring 2014 he was not seen, so it looks more like a gnawing of spiders in a bank
    1. Yurasumy
      24 November 2017 10: 25
      0
      Well, once Washington already “left” Ukraine like that. Need an example? Yanukovych. Will it fit?
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 24 November 2017 10: 43
        0
        in the sense? when was he elected president?
        1. Yurasumy
          24 November 2017 12: 17
          0
          in 2010 year.
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 24 November 2017 13: 43
            +2
            and what is the "US withdrawal" expressed ?!
            June 6-20, 2011 the United States and Ukraine conducted naval exercises Sea Breeze-2011 [23]
            in July 2011, exercises were held at the Mirgorod airdrome with the participation of combat aircraft of the air forces of Ukraine, the USA and Poland, during which the pilots of Ukrainian Su-27s "practiced techniques for fighting terrorists" [24]
            On August 1-5, 2011, in the Lviv region, parts of the 8th army corps of Ukraine and NATO held joint Rapid Trident-2011 exercises [25] [26]
            July 9-23, 2012, the United States and Ukraine conducted naval exercises Sea Breeze-2012 [27]
            July 14-26, 2012, in the Lviv region, Ukraine and the United States held a joint Rapid Trident-2012 exercise [28] with the tasks of detecting and destroying terrorists [29]
            in September 2012, military personnel of the 80th separate airmobile regiment of the airborne troops of Ukraine and cadets of the Academy of Ground Forces together with the military personnel of Canada, Lithuania and Poland participated in the ten-day tactical exercises “Maple Arch-2012” at the Pabrad training ground in Lithuania [30]; they were trained in the use of AK-4 assault rifles, FN MAG machine guns, radio stations, the control of M113 armored personnel carriers [31], and combat operations in urban conditions [32];
            in the summer of 2013 in the territory of the Lviv region, Ukraine and the United States held joint exercises Rapid Trident-2013 [33]
            On November 2-9, 2013, Ukraine participated in the NATO exercises Steadfast Jazz-2013 [34]
            March 21 - April 3, 2014 15 officers of the Ukrainian army participated in the command-and-staff exercises “Saber Guardian-2014” in Bulgaria [35]
            1. Yurasumy
              24 November 2017 22: 38
              0
              Do you speak Russian? Why put “quotes” you know?
              1. Stirbjorn
                Stirbjorn 24 November 2017 23: 31
                +1
                I quoted you, here are quotes
                Quotation marks are a double punctuation mark that emphasizes direct speech, quotes, names, as well as words and sentences used with a touch of irony or not in their usual meaning ...
                Great Soviet Encyclopedia
                1. Yurasumy
                  25 November 2017 10: 03
                  0
                  AND? Which option did you choose? Apparently not the one that I am. Now apply the second option and everything will fall into place.
  11. nickname7
    nickname7 24 November 2017 10: 42
    +4
    Once, a newspaper flashed in Shary’s video from the 40s when Ukraine was under fascist occupation. I managed to read a couple of paragraphs, and so, the phraseology and these specific turns of modern Ukrainian SAMI are one to one, as in those days, except that Hitler is now do not mention. Although Nazi Germany does not exist, but a country ally of Hitlerism exists. Newspapers from those times of the occupying power, very informative reading, but it is difficult to get them, maybe someone can find scans of these newspapers.
  12. bratchanin3
    bratchanin3 24 November 2017 11: 09
    +3
    “Although it cannot be ruled out that Trump is playing honestly with Putin” - Americans never play honestly with anyone! I do not think that Putin will buy and shit. It’s just not clear why they screwed up this Plotnitsky, why they allowed him to distemper? But one could reflect on the fact that they were firing mainly on the DPR, and not on the LPR, why?
    1. 97110
      97110 25 November 2017 18: 25
      +4
      Quote: bratchanin3
      Although it cannot be ruled out that Trump is playing with Putin honestly

      I immediately remembered a joke I had read half a century ago in the Crocodile magazine: “We found an Englishman and a Scot treasure. The Englishman says:“ Let's divide it honestly. ”The Scot replies:“ Her, let's have it evenly divided. ”
  13. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 12: 33
    +1
    Yo mine! What smart ..... yes Th trifle (!) - Abstruse statements! Only sadness ..... if the author is so smart (even abstruse ...), then why is he still not the president of the Russian Federation .... or, at least, "something" ???
  14. Sergey53
    Sergey53 24 November 2017 13: 40
    0
    Everything began to appear from 16.11.
  15. AKC
    AKC 24 November 2017 20: 07
    +1
    I will remind commentators that these events began after;Russian President Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with the leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics, Alexander Zakharchenko and Igor Plotnitsky. This was reported on the Kremlin website. and carpenter left for the Russian Federation, so most likely the president of the Russian Federation himself gave the go-ahead that you need to start the process! and what mnogohodovochka came up in the Kremlin we do not know !!
  16. Alexander Barkov
    Alexander Barkov 24 November 2017 21: 44
    +4
    While Ukraine, Russia and Belarus do not unite everything is senseless. Flirting with the West and the USA for ordinary people turns into poverty and chaos. The so-called elite of a single people must be properly wiped into the sewers. The faster this happens, the less Russian (Slavic) blood will be shed. develops to the fact that it will spill in abundance. Especially in Ukraine ...
    1. 97110
      97110 25 November 2017 18: 34
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Barkov
      While Ukraine, Russia and Belarus do not unite everything is pointless.

      I’ll remake your maxim a bit: “So far, Ukraine, Russia and Belarus are capitalist - everything is pointless.” The president before - the president later, will come to the joy of the world bourgeoisie a new hunchback. And the notorious Slavs will end in the glory of the Pole-Croat-Bulgarians, and to the joy of the impudent Saxons. This time they won’t make a mistake, they will finish what has been started.
  17. PARTIZAN MOJAKHEDOVICH
    PARTIZAN MOJAKHEDOVICH 25 November 2017 03: 04
    0
    For Mozgovoy, Dremov, Bednov, Ishchenko ...
  18. Bo Yari
    Bo Yari 25 November 2017 13: 02
    +1
    [quote] [/ quote] And here Washington is ready to make any "sacrifices". Until the complete departure from Ukraine ....... the author, stop wishful thinking.
    1. Djubal
      Djubal 30 November 2017 07: 11
      0
      and if in response to the supply of Jewels Ukraine responds with supplies, let's say yards of North Korea, will they leave? :) With dozens ... the population of the 10 most densely populated cities in the United States is approximately equal to the population of North Korea)
      1. Bo Yari
        Bo Yari 29 December 2017 23: 10
        +1
        are you very naive
  19. voron770247
    voron770247 25 November 2017 13: 04
    +1
    Please tell me: Where did the circus go ... without clowns ???

    RIA News.
    On the eve of Plotnitsky resigned for health reasons. Now he will be authorized from Lugansk for the implementation of the Minsk agreements.
    )))
    You’ll say, for the head of the LPR his health is not enough, only for an authorized person ...))). Funny boys...)))
  20. brats
    brats 25 November 2017 13: 30
    +2
    No games in line with the systematic (from all sides of the conflict) Jewish goal-setting will bring good to the Slavic peoples.
    Indeed, the geopolitical imprisonment of the “Maidan” is obvious, it’s now carefully avoided, and in the beginning, the super-obvious Israeli roots, disguised as the USA, haven’t disappeared anywhere and the deliberate misrepresentation of names only reveals its unchanged, subtly anti-popular, manipulative essence, in which tactical victories are involved only as a prescribed long-term scenario of permacolonial containment of RUSSIA, distracting it from the tasks of ensuring sustained harmonious development. without a separate line of goal-setting for Israel and an attorney geopolitical component in this conflict, it’s impossible to get a prescription for its solution, the Plotnitsky’s will change their deputies, the Euro-oligarchic power will destroy the people's commanders, and all this within the framework of an excessively extended as a result of an uncontrolled and accordingly incomprehensible transition to a post-usurious models of world order.
    Constructive proposals in this case are the revival of Novorosia in a new cycle of triune ecosocial harmony, with which, it all started in 2013, and to suppress which (including) the Jewish Maidan was organized.
  21. astankard
    astankard 25 November 2017 13: 47
    +1
    Until the Ukrainians remember their roots and their history, and stop selling themselves and their country for visa-free travel, we can assume that the West at the head of Great Britain and the United States wins.
    I hope Europe understands where it is being led - there will be no gain in the war.
  22. as-buki-vedi
    as-buki-vedi 25 November 2017 14: 05
    0
    until Minsk decides, there will be no unification, but preparation for the future president should be adequate
  23. Mikhail Anokhin
    Mikhail Anokhin 25 November 2017 18: 46
    0
    What = heaped up all sorts of different things. Lack of confusion and negligence!
  24. dmitry.kashkaryow
    dmitry.kashkaryow 25 November 2017 19: 09
    +1
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    ! And the process was “going” in the beginning.

    On clothes you need to stretch the legs! And then, as if in the "Procrustean bed" did not please.)))
    The population of Ukraine should be given time to figure out where they are trying to get them. Otherwise, Russia may find itself guilty before the fraternal people without guilt. Do we need this? Ukraine was part of Russia of its own free will, grabbed and tried to carry the grabbed. But overcame by stupidity and greed and lost everything. Now it is not needed in such a right of Russia, only without subjectivity, by the regions of Russia.
  25. misti1973
    misti1973 25 November 2017 22: 31
    0
    What naivety to believe that the United States will turn its eyes away from Ukraine. It’s just enough to give them arms. And Trump will not fight with China economically or by military means!
  26. Prole
    Prole 26 November 2017 09: 23
    +1
    Notice, meeting with Putin for any first leader of foreign countries is like a ritual of initiation for a civilized society. It’s like going to a lion’s cage. Entered - all man .. You can edit. This is such a subtle trolling of explosives. Between themselves, I think they stupidly agreed to pat him on the shoulder, saying that they highly value the importance of Russia in the international arena and they neigh until shit when they get out of the cage .. As for me, BB has not solved anything for a long time either in Ukraine or even in my own country. This is not the Putin who wet the militants in Chechnya. This is another Putin. This merged with the oligarchs through a united Russia which has the vast majority of votes in the Duma and they rule there as they want. Where is the abolition of roaming in Russia, where is the ban on educating the children of officials abroad, where the bankers are planting money-withdrawing investors from Russia and Nabiulin only “saves” the banks by issuing state money in them. The state defense orders both failed and fail and the money is jute and all do not care. (Bankruptcy of the Novokuznetsk Car-Building Plant, Russia's nuclear submarines may be left without nuclear reactors.) Maybe the independent newspaper slanders, but then why the prosecutor’s office does not initiate criminal proceedings on the fact of slander. Or maybe this is also the lack of power in the country? Personally, I did not vote for VV, I won’t sing Difirambov.
  27. AlexVas44
    AlexVas44 27 November 2017 12: 53
    0
    Donald Trump is gradually getting involved in Ukraine and begins his game there

    It seems to be included not only in the course, but also in taste.
  28. Gamer
    Gamer 27 November 2017 22: 55
    0
    how smart people put the putsch - no burnt tires, no oval of the national currency, no heavenly hundred
  29. vissarion
    vissarion 28 November 2017 17: 29
    0
    Surkov’s leadership is seen behind all these gestures. Apparently he was paid little Ukrainians, so he decided to take up Lugansk. If Amerikosy will crouch the plane of greens, then Zakharcheko will be immediately removed, and Moguey and Donbass will hand over with guts. You can expect anything from this nits. But the FSB worked clearly. They can work. when a rooster pecks at a causal place.
  30. akm8226
    akm8226 28 November 2017 21: 49
    0
    As GDP said:
    “We have nowhere to hurry.” We can wait.)))

    And he is right.