Military Review

Expert: Russian tanks are still defenseless before "Javelins"

269
Information about the possible supply of American Javelin anti-tank complexes to Ukraine and other countries unfriendly to Russia caused a flurry of comments on the Internet, many of which boil down to the statement that “we are not afraid of the American miracleweapon"Writes Messenger of Mordovia.


Expert: Russian tanks are still defenseless before "Javelins"


In fact, everything is much more complicated. Independent military expert Alexei Khlopotov believes that in its current form all Russian serial Tanks almost defenseless against these complexes.

“Even with a lot of flaws, American ATGMs will be able to confidently disable armored vehicles that are in service. Therefore, it is urgent to undertake a series of measures that could reduce the effectiveness of such anti-tank weapons, ”the material says.



This is, first of all, the installation on tanks of active protection complexes, which could reliably hit ATGM.

Also, “it is necessary to improve the means of reducing thermal visibility, widely introduce aerosol cover systems, and to develop miniature laser systems for detecting anti-tank guided missiles and disabling their homing heads.”

In addition, "it is necessary to radically revise the principles of installation of dynamic protection, which should maximally reduce the effectiveness of attacking top of ammunition," the expert said.



Most of the above are already embodied on the promising heavy platform "Armata", but it is necessary that it is already being implemented on other armored vehicles operated in the army.

According to Khlopotov, in the troops “it is necessary to form special sniper teams armed with long-range weapons in order to identify and destroy the Javelin’s calculations as soon as possible; Artillery units should deal with this, interacting with reconnaissance equipment, primarily unmanned ones. ” The enemy must be disabled before the launch of their missiles.

Only an integrated approach will significantly reduce this threat, the expert concludes.

Photos used:
http://vestnik-rm.ru
269 comments
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  1. Topotun
    Topotun 23 November 2017 09: 11 New
    61
    “Even with a lot of shortcomings, the American anti-tank systems can confidently disable the armored vehicles that are in service. Therefore, it is urgent to carry out a number of measures that could reduce the effectiveness of such anti-tank weapons "
    Like the Russian anti-tank systems, too, having flaws will create a lot of problems for the Americans. What kind of expert is this? As far as I know, there are no invulnerable tanks and in the near future will not be. Especially if the tanks are used foolishly, without infantry cover, without interacting with artillery and aircraft, stupid head-on attacks on fortified defense units. Why write nonsense?
    1. Thrall
      Thrall 23 November 2017 09: 14 New
      37
      In 2016, the “expert” Alexei Khlopotov broadcast: “Armata” was quietly curtailed, as was the promising tank “Object 195”.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 23 November 2017 09: 54 New
        10
        Quote: Thrall
        In 2016, the “expert” Alexei Khlopotov broadcast: “Armata” was quietly curtailed, as was the promising tank “Object 195”.

        The feeling from the article is ... like a message under the slogan-buy mattresses Javelins and you will be happy from Russian tanks.
        1. Going
          Going 23 November 2017 09: 57 New
          15
          Hidden advertising and the desire to force Europeans to buy these complexes more actively.
          1. Partyzan
            Partyzan 23 November 2017 10: 08 New
            +9
            Victor hi
            Hidden advertising and the desire to force Europeans
            so it turns out that the Cossack mishandled hi
            1. Going
              Going 23 November 2017 10: 09 New
              13
              Rather bought with giblets, and the weapon still depends on the hands in which it is located.
              1. Partyzan
                Partyzan 23 November 2017 10: 11 New
                +8
                Quote: Going
                and weapons still depend on hands

                and most importantly, that they are not crooked laughing
                1. Going
                  Going 23 November 2017 10: 13 New
                  +9
                  And grew from the right place.
                  1. St Petrov
                    St Petrov 23 November 2017 10: 35 New
                    +8
                    Independent Military Expert Aleksey


                    laughing wassat laughing once called unemployed
            2. DenZ
              DenZ 23 November 2017 10: 38 New
              23
              Hassle of the Cossacks mishandled? Oh well...
              Khlopotov expert is much larger than many of those who are sitting in
              Here is his blog
              http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
              No need to so painfully perceive the shortcomings of technology (our technology). It is necessary to draw conclusions and try to correct the situation.
              1. Partyzan
                Partyzan 23 November 2017 10: 40 New
                +5
                Quote: DenZ
                Hassle of the Cossacks stalled?

                well maybe stuck hi
            3. Don
              Don 23 November 2017 12: 19 New
              16
              Quote: Partyzan
              so it turns out that the Cossack mishandled

              All who talk about the problems are mishandled Cossacks, liberals, and heaps. We do not need advanced types of weapons, we will burn all tanks with rpgks, we will kill the infantry with Kalash, and we will throw a hat on the NATO blog. Urya! Urya! Urya!
        2. To be or not to be
          To be or not to be 23 November 2017 10: 16 New
          +1
          Advertising!
          And the eternal struggle: "Armor shell!"
          Fighting with machines not only MANPADS ... but also .aviation. Helicopters .. mine fields .. different Pinocchio
        3. Juborg
          Juborg 23 November 2017 18: 51 New
          +1
          NEXUS, my friend, removed it from my tongue, the article was obvious ordering, like the others, about the refusal of the same Indians from the Mig-29K, about the Yankees visiting our boat, about the refusal of the same Indians from the T-90 and many articles similar to this pearl .
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 23 November 2017 10: 26 New
        10
        "" Armata "quietly collapsed" ////

        That's collapsed, he was not mistaken. Mass production is not planned.
        1. St Petrov
          St Petrov 23 November 2017 10: 37 New
          26
          and Syria will fall and Isil capture Damascus and Assad hang and Russia will get bogged down. Have read your forecasts.

          You do not confuse your wishes and reality.

          PS I understand that you (because not only I mean you but also your fellow citizens) like the failures of the Russian Federation, you wait for them, relish the site with the whole tribe, but you can be a little more delicate while being in.

          It’s like spitting in someone else’s house, how not to take off your shoes before entering the house, how to spit on those whose relatives did not allow you to make a piece of soap from your relatives. Something like this, I think

          PS still, if Armata eventually goes to the troops - what will have to be done with your forecast?
          1. Black5Raven
            Black5Raven 23 November 2017 10: 45 New
            12
            Quote: c-Petrov
            You do not confuse your wishes and reality.

            Look at the amount of Armat in the army and the supply to the army. And then on what makes up the bulk of the tank fleet and how much time will be spent on replacement. The same with the rest of the wunderwaffe, things are still there.
            1. St Petrov
              St Petrov 23 November 2017 11: 54 New
              +7
              how much time will it take to replace


              we have 55 just recently removed from service. We are not a banana kingdom - we have thousands of tanks. Gradually, everything will be replaced.

              The same with the rest of the wunderwaffe, things are still there.


              because it’s not an iPhone to release.
              1. Black5Raven
                Black5Raven 24 November 2017 23: 25 New
                +3
                Quote: c-Petrov
                We are not a banana kingdom.

                Sorry, but are you sure? As bananas (oil) became cheaper, problems began. The fact remains, the Russian Federation sits on an oil needle and it does not paint it.

                Quote: c-Petrov
                Gradually, everything will be replaced.

                By the 2200th? Perhaps with such a pace of supply. Is something closer by date? I don’t think so.

                Quote: c-Petrov
                because it’s not an iPhone to release.

                To release the same iPhone, you also need high technology content, who knows what’s easier to release wink
            2. Feldscher
              Feldscher 27 November 2017 10: 07 New
              0
              what?
              Doesn’t it bother that 72 and 90 ticks are being upgraded?
              what bmp are brought to mind?
              as they bring the obt to a level higher than necessary, then they will be put into series.
              while there is enough work
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 23 November 2017 10: 57 New
            13
            "if Armata eventually goes into the army - what will have to be done with your forecast?" ///.

            It will be necessary to consider it incorrect. I just read the press carefully. Flashed by
            that the production line for Almaty is dismantled. Probably will do T-90 - foreign
            orders, which received a lot.
            And Armata will be in a single production.

            "and Syria will fall and Igil will capture Damascus" ///

            On the contrary, I confidently say that ISIS will be defeated. When in such
            If Russia and the USA participate together and at the same time, the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
            1. Sochi
              Sochi 23 November 2017 11: 23 New
              +7
              ???? What does the USA have to do with ??? these just fought against Assad ....
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 23 November 2017 11: 27 New
                +6
                Against ISIS in Iraq. And against ISIS in Syria (capture of Raqqa with the Kurds)
                And against Assad (helping the Syrian Free Army) in Syria.
                1. Sochi
                  Sochi 23 November 2017 12: 11 New
                  +6
                  At the time of entering the Russian Aerospace Forces, the SSA fought on the side of ISIS ... against Assad.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 23 November 2017 12: 51 New
                    +8
                    Unfortunately, you were misinformed. Against ISIS
                    ALL groupings hostile to Assad fought: both Nusra and Islamic
                    front, and moderate opposition. Because ISIS: "who is not with us is
                    opposite us "(scumbags, what to do). If you do not swear ISIS - ax head in the square.
                    Therefore, ISIS failed to penetrate either Aleppo or Idlib. Captured
                    they are in Syria only a relatively sparsely populated east of the country.
                    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
                      Ratmir_Ryazan 25 November 2017 10: 14 New
                      +2
                      Do not smack nonsense dear !!! Well, they fought so much that until Russia came to Syria, ISIS controlled 2/3 of Syria and 1/2 of Iraq, miraculously seizing weapons depots, except that American planes were always "wrong" and dumped weapons, food and medicine them right to the location. And so they were able to come close to Baghdad ... And only urgent deliveries of Russian equipment to Iraq helped stabilize the situation ...

                      And the United States moved only after the success of the Russian Air Force in Syria, and not for the sake of defeating ISIS, but to prevent ISIS militants from escaping from Syria to Iraq and began to squeeze them out of Iraq into Syria !!! But that didn’t help either ...

                      So there is no need here to tell tales about the US struggle with ISIS, yet tell us that Israel is interested in defeating ISIS ...

                      USA and Israel are scoundrels ...
            2. sir_obs
              sir_obs 23 November 2017 14: 43 New
              +6
              together and at the same time involving Russia and the USA, the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

              Is this humor like that? I would say that contrary to the participation of the United States, the igil will be defeated, if it is in essence.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 23 November 2017 19: 35 New
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          That's collapsed, he was not mistaken. Mass production is not planned.

          And now we exhale and turn on the brains ... tell me, dear, why don’t you take 200 F-35s for free from mattresses? Apparently out of great natural modesty.
          Why are we now mass purchase of T-14, if there are no crew under them? Moreover, on the T-14, contract soldiers will be planted, not green recruits. The purchase will be as the crews are trained and as a result of the military run. Do not throw excrement on the fan here.
        3. Valery Saitov
          Valery Saitov 27 November 2017 11: 35 New
          0
          Armata will be released SERIES i.e. hundreds, but not thousands (massively). But when they need it, they will do it in large quantities, the GDP has not in vain given the command to ensure that commercial plants are ready to produce military equipment.
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 27 November 2017 11: 44 New
            +3
            Quote: Valery Saitov
            Armata will be released SERIES i.e. hundreds, but not thousands (massively). But when they need it, they will do it in large quantities, the GDP has not in vain given the command to ensure that commercial plants are ready to produce military equipment.



            It will not be difficult for you in general terms to explain to me how a civilian “commercial” plant can be ready for the production of Armata.nu or SU-35 for example. Yes, in general, any non-core products
      3. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 23 November 2017 11: 14 New
        13
        Quote: Thrall
        In 2016, the “expert” Alexei Khlopotov broadcast: “Armata” was quietly curtailed, as was the promising tank “Object 195”.

        it has not yet been launched into mass production, it hasn’t entered the troops, although at the 2014 parade they presented Armata, so far, the studs addressed to Khlopotov are not appropriate
      4. Normal ok
        Normal ok 23 November 2017 13: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: Thrall
        In 2016, the “expert” Alexei Khlopotov broadcast: “Armata” was quietly curtailed, as was the promising tank “Object 195”.

        So what? A lot of armats in the army? You can count in pieces. And the T-72, T-80 and T-90 are hundreds.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 23 November 2017 21: 26 New
          +4
          Quote: Normal ok
          So what? A lot of armats in the army? You can count in pieces. And the T-72, T-80 and T-90 are hundreds.

          Many crew trained under the T-14? Or are you few modernized T-72, T-80 and T-90? In your opinion you need to put all 72-ki, 80-ki and 90-s for remelting, and immediately start riveting T-14. You yourself are not funny?
        2. Slavors Gart
          Slavors Gart 24 November 2017 00: 38 New
          0
          As of 2017, the tank forces of the Ground Forces of the Russian Armed Forces have 2 tanks and 700 tanks in storage, as well as 17 tanks in the naval infantry formations, which outnumber the US tank forces, whose tank fleet has 500 M250 tanks Abrams in service and 2 in storage.
      5. Antonovsky
        Antonovsky 28 November 2017 09: 28 New
        0
        very similar - it was loudly announced about the delivery of the first ARMATA in 2016, then they promised in 2017, but for now only general words about testing
      6. Volodka
        Volodka 30 November 2017 10: 37 New
        0
        Khlopotov is very fond of portraying an insider and "a person close to ...).
    2. Solomon Kane
      Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 09: 16 New
      16
      The expert forgot to add: he picked up "Javelin" - he became the target number 1 ......
      1. just exp
        just exp 23 November 2017 10: 18 New
        +9
        this is unlikely, Javelin just released the ATGM and forgot, that is, after the start, the operator can snoop and bury.
        his main drawback is that it takes 30 seconds to aim at the target. that is, he took the target into sight and follow it for 30 seconds. so that the GOS could capture the target. and for 30 sec. the goal may fall.
        Well, the second negative black, which however goes out of the plus (small dimensions), is the small range of Javelin, 2.5 km.
        1. dvina71
          dvina71 23 November 2017 10: 29 New
          +5
          Quote: just EXPL
          his main drawback is that it takes 30 seconds to aim at the target. that is, he took the target into sight and follow it for 30 seconds. so that the GOS could capture the target. and for 30 sec. the goal may fall.
          Well, the second negative black, which however goes out of the plus (small dimensions), is the small range of Javelin, 2.5 km.

          A GOS target captures a target only in direct line of sight, for almost a minute .. when it is upright, it should sit in front of machine guns, zushki .. and the same SovPTRK.
          And 2.5 is the maximum launch range effective approx. 1 km ..
          I don’t understand what the imba is this Java? GOS anti-aircraft missiles capture the target against the background of an always cold sky .. and even in such conditions, the target is not easy to destroy. On the ground, during the battle .. there are so many temptations for the thermal seeker of the javelin .. that their effectiveness is in doubt.
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 37 New
            +6
            in Iraq, against Iraqi tanks, they performed well.
            1. Leeds
              Leeds 23 November 2017 10: 51 New
              16
              To summarize the discussion:
              The remnants of the former brains of VO decided that this was all propaganda, we had nothing to fear, their anti-tank systems were garbage. We don’t have this, not because we have problems with the development and implementation of GOS, and there is no point in patamush, because the RPG-7 burns Abrams of the last modification at a time, and even the good old BMP-1 is still a serious competitor to Abrache in the opposite the battle. Hooray!
              1. just exp
                just exp 23 November 2017 11: 06 New
                +4
                this is in all mass forums ((((
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 23 November 2017 22: 42 New
                +3
                "After all, the RPG-7 burns Abrams last modification at a time." The next modification of Abrams, RPG 7 will not be able to burn, KAZ and dynamic protection will melt on it.
            2. Per se.
              Per se. 23 November 2017 14: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: just EXPL
              in Iraq, against Iraqi tanks, they showed themselves well
              You yourself here seemed to have focused specifically on Iraq, and Iraqi tanks (there are areas with different geography and other tank crews). Javelina has its advantages, but, perhaps, there are a few shortcomings.
              —CBP does not allow target identification at distances over 2000 meters.
              —The time of cooling the NVD is from 2.5 to 3.5 minutes.
              - The cooling time of the GOS is about 10 seconds.
              —The duration of operation of the power supply and cooling unit after activation is about 4-s minutes.
              —In a time of limited visibility (natural or artificial), rain, snow, sleet, fog, smoke, smoke, dust, and night together are referred to as the conditions of limited visibility. The day sight may be useless under these conditions.
              -Night:
              —The day sight uses daylight to provide an operator with a target image.
              —The PNV uses the natural infrared radiation of objects. The infrared crossover at dawn and dusk is very close to the temperature allowing the target to merge with the terrain. In the case when the difference in the amount of infrared energy of the target and the background is low enough, neither Javelina’s PBC, nor its GOS are able to distinguish the target. This greatly reduces the performance of Javelina. This situation can last up to an hour, until either the background temperature or the temperature of the target changes so much that it is possible to detect the target.
              —Natural interference, for example, the sun can heat objects to a target that is close enough to the temperature that merges with the terrain.
              —An artificial noise appears in the presence of artificial objects emitting a large amount of infrared energy (for example, burning vehicles).
              - Heavy fog reduces the ability of the operator to detect targets and fire.
              —The rocket’s flight trajectory limits its use in wooded, mountainous and urban areas.
              —The operator must have a direct visibility of the target by the homing head to capture the target.
              —Weather Javelina slows down marches with him over long distances. When using Javelina in foot orders, the load on the soldier greatly increases. With a total system weight slightly less than 22-kg, Javelin is quite heavy. Despite the fact that Javelin is a portable complex, one soldier is not able to carry it easily on rough terrain for a long period.
              The transport-launch container Javelina is bulky and restricts its movement with it in densely overgrown thickets.
              “The operator must remain partially open by exposing himself to enemy fire.”
              —The CFP requires direct visibility to capture targets.
              To this we can add that the use of conventional heat traps for shooting (as in aviation) may well be one of the measures to counteract attacks from Javelin.
              1. just exp
                just exp 23 November 2017 15: 46 New
                +4
                there are no ideal systems. and it has flaws. but so far, Javelin has shown himself to be good, and the main thing for him is that he has a completely passive system, shot and immediately dive, while other ATGMs need to be aimed at ranges of several km, this time takes tens of seconds. and new KAZs not only detect ATGM itself, but also the launch site, and in Merkava for several years there has been a function of AUTOMATIC shelling of launch positions.
                there that all sorts of ATGMs that the operator will still induce after launch, more and more become potential suicide bombers. and the javelin operator, after start-up, can dive into the hole even before 120 mm of HE blows in its position.
            3. dvina71
              dvina71 23 November 2017 19: 03 New
              0
              Quote: just EXPL
              in Iraq, against Iraqi tanks, they performed well.

              Well, this is the perfect place for this type of ATGM. Large open spaces, smooth temperature background .. TOU are much better than in Syria ..
        2. medvedron
          medvedron 27 November 2017 23: 16 New
          0
          At such a range, Beha, the deuce will fire four oddly high-explosive shells and the whole calculation into tattered oddballs with this toy. Someone wrote correctly, tanks should be used wisely.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 23 November 2017 11: 31 New
        +6
        "picked up Javelin," he became the target number 1 ...... "////

        Just the opposite. Javelin or Spike have no need
        lead the rocket to the target. Shot - and dumped from the place of the shot.
        But at Cornet or Milan - this is necessary.
        1. Whitesnow
          Whitesnow 28 November 2017 12: 58 New
          0
          The main thing is to live up to, "shot."
      3. Thracian warrior
        Thracian warrior 23 November 2017 11: 59 New
        0
        Gunner Javelina is the back of the hiding and outside the sniper casing - 2-2.5 km. from the tank, and the sniper is just behind.
      4. vik669
        vik669 28 November 2017 22: 38 New
        +1
        Yes, the area where the appearance of the “Javelin” is possible will have to be plowed deeper and sown in a square-nesting way!
    3. Jedi
      Jedi 23 November 2017 09: 16 New
      23
      After this article, I am not inclined to tear my hair in all places and yell "Everything is lost!". What, can Western tanks boast absolute invulnerability to the good old RPG-7?
      1. Solomon Kane
        Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 09: 21 New
        12
        What are you, dear! RPG-7 is a universal machine, much less bulky, but no less effective .... like the Molotov cocktail, in good hands ......
        My regards! hi
        1. Jedi
          Jedi 23 November 2017 09: 25 New
          10
          Mutually, Kostya! hi Here I am about the same. Absolutely invulnerable equipment does not exist, and therefore there is nothing to expose Russian tanks defenseless buckets with bolts and nuts.
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 21 New
            +9
            so far only Merkavas are protected from Javilin, their Windbreaker protects the upper hemisphere, even the Arena will not help us.
            and Javelin is effective against all old types of tanks and Leo2 and Abrams, since a weak top is a characteristic feature of all tanks. and only a full-fledged KAZ and systems such as Curtains (well, or a combination of them, such as Afganit, and KAZ and the interference system at the same time) can correct the situation.
            by the way, in 93m we had a similar project, but the liberals cut everything.
            1. Jedi
              Jedi 23 November 2017 10: 29 New
              +2
              Thanks for the information, this also applies to your comment below. For those who are interested in the question there is no need to ask - you have already answered. And if you need more details - google to help.
            2. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 23 November 2017 14: 34 New
              +4
              there are nuances.
              it is effective in a standing car without any opposition (hedge similar to polygon conditions). in the face of opposition (far from the most modern means of the last century), the probability of hitting a target drops to 30%, and this is according to statements by American experts. the same American experts can not decide what is more effective than TOW or Javelin.
              certainly Javelin is a danger to tanks but its effectiveness is greatly exaggerated (IMHO).
      2. Grandfather
        Grandfather 23 November 2017 09: 21 New
        +7
        Quote: Solomon Kane
        The expert forgot to add: he picked up "Javelin" - he became the target number 1 ......

        pathos ... my grandfather burned twice, and both times from the "faustnik".
        1. Solomon Kane
          Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 09: 34 New
          10
          Dear, with all my sincere respect for your grandfather, I did not understand the direction of your thought, what exactly is “pathos”?
          With modern devices of objective control, tracking and aiming, people with such a fool on the hump are optimally tracked and destroyed, as a potentially dangerous object .... first of all.
          1. Grandfather
            Grandfather 23 November 2017 10: 24 New
            +6
            Quote: Solomon Kane
            I didn’t understand the direction of your thought, in what actually "pathos"
            with all due respect, the “Faustnik” is the first to shoot ... but about the “target” then, if he is alone. (which is always wrong) answered? hi
            1. Asthma
              Asthma 23 November 2017 10: 58 New
              +1
              well, to prevent this from happening and bmpt started to be purchased! and so, this is the work of the infantry - protecting the technician from manpower. correct if not right.
              1. Topotun
                Topotun 23 November 2017 11: 14 New
                +7
                And who will protect the BMPT? Without infantry cover, that tanks, that BMPTs will not gain much war ... Especially in conditions of limited visibility (hills, forest belt, bushes, buildings ...). You can't see much through surveillance systems. Especially in smoke and dust.
                1. Asthma
                  Asthma 23 November 2017 11: 19 New
                  +2
                  excuse me, why protect her? It seems that BMPT is positioned as a product to combat the calculations of PTRC?
                  1. Topotun
                    Topotun 23 November 2017 11: 23 New
                    +6
                    Yeah, but for the grenade launcher, it’s quite a goal for yourself .... And you’ll see it on the battlefield ....
                    1. Asthma
                      Asthma 23 November 2017 11: 26 New
                      +3
                      Sorry, but in theory, the BMP is equipped with all the tools for the effective detection of enemy manpower.
                      1. just exp
                        just exp 23 November 2017 15: 50 New
                        +4
                        in theory, our watchman should not have thumped at work, however ....
                    2. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 23 November 2017 21: 58 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Topotun
                      Yeah, but for the grenade launcher, it’s quite a goal for yourself .... And you’ll see it on the battlefield ....

                      And thermal imagers and infrared identification are not at all capable of "seeing" a fighter with anti-tank systems?
            2. medvedron
              medvedron 28 November 2017 08: 59 New
              0
              The BMP, or just the infantry, works just on such targets. And by the way, the UTESA has an effective range of 2 km so that the eccentric with Javelin is also not just a walk.
            3. Whitesnow
              Whitesnow 28 November 2017 13: 05 New
              0
              Faustnik looked out, noticed a tank, ran out and fired. For everything about everything, it will take him a maximum of five seconds. The same and RPGeshnik. and I had two types that (grenade launcher and assistant) in five seconds fired three shots at three different windows. If something they safely went on a demobilization. And how much time does two homosexual bespectacled people need from, ran out to shot,?
      3. novel66
        novel66 23 November 2017 09: 23 New
        14
        how well it was written: any tank can be knocked into the stern
      4. Thrall
        Thrall 23 November 2017 09: 29 New
        +9
        In Yemen, all the tanks participating in the conflict had losses, except for the Leclerc. The reason for this enchanting success was:
        1. Very limited use of them (literally in one operation).
        2. They were mainly used at secure checkpoints.
      5. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 23 November 2017 09: 33 New
        11
        Is our Cornet worse than JABELin? Toad for over 20 years!
        1. Jedi
          Jedi 23 November 2017 09: 41 New
          +7
          Volodya, salute! hi
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          But is our Cornet worse than JABELin?

          Any follower of the United States in two ways with foam at the mouth will prove worse. lol
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 23 November 2017 09: 45 New
            +7
            Hi amigo! hi I have no doubt that they will prove! You can prove anything on the fingers! But in life! Question!
            1. Jedi
              Jedi 23 November 2017 09: 58 New
              +3
              Quote: Uncle Lee
              You can prove anything on the fingers! But in life! Question!

              Here it is necessary to take into account a lot of nuances and details, especially since, as a colleague rightly remarked MoJloT:
              Quote: MoJloT
              the class is different.
          2. MoJloT
            MoJloT 23 November 2017 09: 49 New
            +1
            And here I am, the class is different.
            1. Jedi
              Jedi 23 November 2017 09: 56 New
              +6
              I didn’t suspect you of the US commitment ... wink But the class is different, only the layman will not agree with this. hi
              1. MoJloT
                MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 14 New
                +2
                I didn’t suspect you of the US commitment.
                I also
                Any follower of the United States in two ways with foam at the mouth will prove worse
                Well, there’s no foam yet, and what is obviously inferior, it turns out I’m the same any US adherent laughing
                1. Jedi
                  Jedi 23 November 2017 10: 17 New
                  +5
                  There was no bravado on my part: I just remembered how ardent fans appeared during the next article about the next problems of the F-35. drinks
                  1. MoJloT
                    MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 21 New
                    +1
                    This is one of our eternal problems. drinks
                    1. Jedi
                      Jedi 23 November 2017 10: 29 New
                      +2
                      So we are not without sin ...
          3. Mih1974
            Mih1974 23 November 2017 09: 55 New
            +2
            And we as arguments to him - in the face from a U-turn. good bully "let it lie down, it will cool down" (c) laughing
          4. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 23 November 2017 10: 04 New
            +4
            Quote: Jedi
            Any follower of the United States in two ways with foam at the mouth will prove worse.

            Yes, no fig no worse

            1. Jedi
              Jedi 23 November 2017 10: 07 New
              +5
              Quote: Stroporez
              Yes, no fig no worse

              hi Actually, my words were ironic towards the USA. wink
              1. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 23 November 2017 10: 13 New
                +3
                Quote: Jedi
                Actually, my words were ironic towards the USA.

                So I appreciated yes drinks
                1. Jedi
                  Jedi 23 November 2017 10: 18 New
                  +5
                  I am glad that we have found mutual understanding and the horse of Sensus. lol
                  1. The comment was deleted.
          5. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 25 New
            11
            I am not a supporter of the United States and mattresses, but I admit that our ATGMs are worse than Western ones.
            although with the release of heavy Cornet, the situevina improved.
            and so Javelin has a bunch of flaws, but they overlap with one big plus, a blow to the top. + tandem warhead robs the tank of chances.
            only KAZ or EW type Curtains will help.
            By the way, spikes are also a dangerous thing in the NLOS version, it is like small OTR of short range and hits tanks to the top. part.
            An example was in Karabakh.
            1. PSih2097
              PSih2097 23 November 2017 12: 34 New
              0
              Quote: just EXPL
              only KAZ or EW type Curtains will help.

              like Arena ...
              1. alexmach
                alexmach 23 November 2017 13: 03 New
                +2
                Is the arena already covering the upper hemisphere?
              2. just exp
                just exp 23 November 2017 15: 51 New
                +1
                Arena only from TOW and RPG.
            2. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 23 November 2017 14: 46 New
              +2
              Quote: just EXPL
              but they overlap with one big plus, hit the top

              not to the upper part, but to attack the target at an angle of about 30 degrees. in the final section of the flight, the rocket makes about 5 sharp maneuvers at angles of 30-60 degrees, being adjusted relative to the target. while the target should be motionless. By the way, what does it mean? can't a Javelin tank get into a moving tank? very similar. due to its flight characteristics, the use of this rocket in urban development generally looks very problematic.
              so what is Javelin so good for? I'll tell you. wink it can be sold! bully
              1. just exp
                just exp 23 November 2017 15: 52 New
                0
                look for information about its use in Iraq, the Iraqis who received from the javelins will not agree with you.
                1. Sanichsan
                  Sanichsan 23 November 2017 17: 10 New
                  +1
                  looked up. no nichrome. where did you get about the Iraqis who received from the javelins? kind facts and not "grandmother told" laughing
                  if you have questions about how the facts look, then it looks something like this:
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUYWvbBpvnk
        2. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 23 November 2017 09: 55 New
          +6
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          Is our Cornet worse than JABELin? Toad for over 20 years!

          I’ll tell you a secret, “Cornet” will be older yes
          Now there have been many upgrades, I don’t think that he is inferior to the "toad", but rather superior.
          There is also infa from the category of "one grandmother said" that there is already a "toy" more advanced than the "Cornet", so to speak, "improved layout, near the metro, center" good laughing drinks
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 38 New
            +3
            Is this a new thing? Hermes not frequent? a good complex will be, but it is not portable.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 23 November 2017 10: 41 New
              +1
              Quote: just EXPL
              Is this a new thing? Hermes not frequent?

              Nah, generation 3+, but it's shhhh ........
              1. just exp
                just exp 23 November 2017 10: 45 New
                +2
                not the one that we cut with the IR seeker in the 90s?
                1. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 23 November 2017 10: 59 New
                  +2
                  Quote: just EXPL
                  not the one that we cut with the IR seeker in the 90s?

                  Observing in the right direction yes
                  It is clear that all the developments go back to our glorious socialist past, and in the 90s thanks to the enthusiasts and the “Cornet”, which were sold to the Arabs, hence the developments of the Indians and Chaynas. Knowledgeable people say that the “toad” is also from the Soviet documentation “spilina”, when it “flowed” like from a bucket, but it’s clear that it’s not finished, there is still gunpowder in the powder cupboards.
                  And as far as I know, Kuev worked on the IC GOS, and in Soviet times it was very serious and successful, even the entire 2000s Arsenal supplied us with the Mayak if I am not mistaken. what
                  1. just exp
                    just exp 23 November 2017 11: 09 New
                    +2
                    then we will wait, for we have long been waiting.
                    Cornet is a cool thing, but still laser guidance is often on the battlefield where dust, fog and smoke screens can mess.
                    and Hermes has been promising us for 5 years, but promising.
                    although I also read about the fact that we are working on the basis of the 90s developments with the infrared seeker, 3-4 years ago. and also still silence, I hope not for long.
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 23 November 2017 11: 25 New
                      +2
                      Quote: just EXPL
                      then we will wait, for we have long been waiting.

                      A colleague, the whole thing is that many systems on this topic were developed in the framework of cooperation with the Union republics, that is, with allies, someone further advanced in one direction, someone in another.
                      “Arsenal” in this case, was in the lead, but for 14 years and mostly 20 with horseradish, our dumbasses didn’t bother to do something with us ..... And again, “people” say, that the “toad” is not only our best practices, but also heads dumped there.
                      Strictly speaking, the “toad” is a very serious and effective machine, with all the nuances, and most importantly, since the mattresses are already going to send them to kaklam, then where are the guarantees that they don’t have a more serious joker up their sleeve ...
                      And in this case, we’ll be at least three years late. sad
                      1. just exp
                        just exp 23 November 2017 15: 42 New
                        +1
                        they also had work on kinetic ATGMs, about 10 years ago they let down the speed of electronics, now it has grown, and it may well be that this is their new hobbyhorse, but the truth is, like Hermes, they are still not portable systems.
        3. Leeds
          Leeds 23 November 2017 10: 56 New
          +5
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          Is our Cornet worse than JABELin? Toad for over 20 years!


          When the Cornet begins to hit the roof, be used "from the shoulder", accompany the target after the shot while the operator wants the legs - they can be compared. To understand this, logic and a little brain activity are enough.
          Like the anti-tank systems of his generation, Cornet is one of the best, it is indisputable, but Javelin from the next.
      6. pjastolov
        pjastolov 23 November 2017 09: 34 New
        +7
        Hello max hi
        Can Western tanks boast absolute invulnerability to the good old RPG-7?
        tambourines are burning negative
        1. Jedi
          Jedi 23 November 2017 09: 39 New
          +5
          Volodya, welcome! hi
          Quote: pjastolov
          tambourines are burning

          good drinks
          1. pjastolov
            pjastolov 23 November 2017 09: 41 New
            +4
            I join, as they say
        2. Solomon Kane
          Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 09: 41 New
          +7
          Volod diamonds and clubs were at the Luftwaffe ....
          Those on earth have mostly "little animals"

          ... but it doesn’t change the essence - they burned and will burn !!!! hi
          1. pjastolov
            pjastolov 23 November 2017 09: 56 New
            +4
            Hello Kostya hi totally agree drinks
    4. Scoun
      Scoun 23 November 2017 09: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: Topotun
      What kind of expert is this?

      Your words yes to ears !!! ++
      It seemed to me alone or not that Mr. expert Khlopotov was building up a whole strategy around the "javelin", and artillery, and UAVs, and KAZs .... and probably the calculations of the air forces will be guarded by the battalion forces .....? wassat
      According to Khlopotov, in the troops “it is necessary to form special sniper teams armed with long-range weapons in order to identify and destroy the Javelin’s calculations as soon as possible; Artillery units should deal with this, interacting with reconnaissance equipment, primarily unmanned ones. ” The enemy must be disabled before the launch of their missiles.
      Only an integrated approach will significantly reduce this threat, the expert concludes.

      You might think that there are no other threats and tasks.
      PS.
      I propose to include an option for an integrated approach - get 3 million for a javelin, wholesalers (from 10 pcs.) A million dollars.
      1. Solomon Kane
        Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 09: 47 New
        +4
        Totally agree with you. hi
        Moreover, from the context of the article it is clear that they are going to supply this type of weapon to our "neighbors" .... and in this situation the old wisdom comes to mind: "A craftsman with a needle, much more useful than a fool with a club." hi
      2. MoJloT
        MoJloT 23 November 2017 09: 51 New
        +3
        The calculation of the complex may be located in kilometers from the contact line.
        1. Solomon Kane
          Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 10: 04 New
          +4
          In the case of using the “Antisniper”, the ATGM operator can be shot dead immediately, since the “Antisniper” is also available as a sight for the ASVK large-caliber sniper rifle

          Russian response to the Javelin anti-tank system operator
          1. MoJloT
            MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 38 New
            +2
            AT Javelin ATGM one huge + shot (60s) and slippers. And let the anti-sniper monitor all possible directions for 24 hours.
            1. Solomon Kane
              Solomon Kane 23 November 2017 11: 06 New
              +4
              What is the dispute, dear?
              Golden rule: for every scrap there is scrap No. 2 wink lol
              Not saved ISIS (org. Propos. In the Russian Federation) neither Javelina, nor TOW, nor striped instructors ....
              Power is in the truth! Be kind! good
              1. MoJloT
                MoJloT 23 November 2017 11: 31 New
                +3
                Strength in Newtons! And this is the merit of our MO and CAA.
    5. mishaia_23
      mishaia_23 23 November 2017 10: 00 New
      +5
      Even having a lot of shortcomings, the American anti-tank systems can confidently disable the armored vehicles that are in service.

      Not possible to use with smoke, dust, fog, snow and rain.
      Ok weather conditions but in battle unless smoke or dust.
      The target must be in direct line of sight for capture, therefore difficult to use in urban environments and forests.

      In a word, a good machine, but only on a plain and without obstacles shooting range, and not in battle ... crying
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 23 November 2017 10: 18 New
        +4
        I want to add that if you don’t point and shoot from Java for the first time, in eleven seconds, then you can only score pegs or crosses on the grave! Here she is such a tricky little thing.
        RPGshka it is simple of course, but reliable as ... Kalash.
        Yes, by the way, the Java operator is a trained specialist, and a GOOD shooter, a piece of goods ... whoever associates this with ukrovoyaki?
        1. MoJloT
          MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 53 New
          0
          You really go too far comparing RPGs and Java.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 23 November 2017 11: 02 New
            +3
            I don’t bend and do not compare ... they are of different generations and although their application goals seem to intersect, Java is a more advanced device. She just has her own characteristics, requiring a very trained shooter. RPG is simpler, more reliable, but in order to achieve effective defeat of a well-protected equipment, it is required to do, if not a miracle, then try hard.
            There are facts of the destruction of armor with the help of the PKK, enough to conclude that this is possible. Not shot at the shooting range, in a real battle !!!
            1. MoJloT
              MoJloT 23 November 2017 11: 03 New
              0
              War quickly teaches.
        2. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 23 November 2017 11: 09 New
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Yes, by the way, the Java operator is a trained specialist, and a GOOD shooter, a piece of goods ... whoever associates this with ukrovoyaki?

          But didn’t the “toad” appear in our conflict with the Turks? Somewhere the video flashed on this subject ..., I could be wrong.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 23 November 2017 12: 00 New
            +4
            At where, when ... the pro-Turkish "wolves" fired at, shot down a helicopter, but from what, do you have to look \ look?
            And more than that, there were no obvious conflicts, Schaub loudly, with noise in the media and at the diplomatic level.
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 23 November 2017 12: 14 New
              +1
              Quote: rocket757
              At where, when ... the pro-Turkish "wolves" fired at, shot down a helicopter, but from what, do you have to look \ look?

              Yes, it was about this moment that I wrote.
            2. Genry
              Genry 23 November 2017 13: 57 New
              +1
              And where was Javelin there?
              There was an old wire TOW.
      2. Asthma
        Asthma 23 November 2017 11: 03 New
        +2
        wow, but I didn’t know that he was so "greenhouse". Thanks for the info.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 23 November 2017 12: 15 New
          +3
          A “hothouse” ts, a high-tech unit ... at that time they could not \ did not want to supply it with a more capacious battery, and the brains and control kinema require ENERGY. Here, after all, the question is whether it’s either very expensive, or to cook the arrow efficiently. Yankees, counted and decided - we are preparing shooters. An army of professionals is certainly cool, but very expensive.
          Look how much they spent on the preparation of their barmalei !!! The truth is, zilch.
          So it turns out that the java barmalei did not appreciate it, it’s expensive, difficult, and after the “misfire” (aiming for more than 20 seconds) you need to take this fool to the BRAND WORKSHOP.
          Here is such a compote. In short RPG steers.
          By the way, the Tova is deprived of precisely these shortcomings, range, stealth is better ... although the arrow also needs to be prepared QUALITATIVELY !!!
          1. Genry
            Genry 23 November 2017 14: 01 New
            0
            Quote: rocket757
            ... at that time they could not \ did not want to supply it with a more capacious battery, and the "brains" and control kinema require ENERGY.

            Not energy, but cooling the thermal imaging unit. There is a small supply of liquid nitrogen.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 23 November 2017 14: 36 New
              +3
              All thermal-type homing heads must be cooled, the Java has a cooling battery, and yes there is compressed gas (not nitrogen, different, the same principle) in different models for different min 19 sec. Replacement in PU, on the spot was not provided. Those. not fired, PU with a missile to the side. the control device, like many, is reusable.
              1. Genry
                Genry 23 November 2017 18: 31 New
                0
                Alas .. But in Javelin, the cylinder with a cooler is interchangeable and designed for several starts. And rockets can be used after an unsuccessful attempt.
      3. Leeds
        Leeds 23 November 2017 11: 06 New
        +2
        The experience of anti-tank systems in Syria, I see, is not even considered here. Therefore, it turns out that our tanks are always on the move, in smoke, dust, aviation, artillery are always nearby, corrected from drones live, snipers detecting and laying ATGM calculations from 2 km away. Here Syria is another hot example. But, most importantly, speak in a dignified manner))
    6. MoJloT
      MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 05 New
      +6
      disable
      it’s somehow very softly said

      Here, dynamic protection is as effective as icons on Prior
      1. max702
        max702 23 November 2017 10: 36 New
        +7
        If the tank is filled with good explosives, then it will not explode like that ... How many explosives are there in javelin? So all these staged videos should be divided by ten ..
        1. MoJloT
          MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 40 New
          +3
          On 10? Divide? Did you look good? Yes, he just evaporated! 41 tons of armor and steel tore like a piece of paper.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 23 November 2017 10: 46 New
            +5
            There is such a bird, Willow lives on a tree!
            Naive is called.
            Has anyone seen footage of how Java gets into an actively maneuvering or at least moving TANK ???
            Maybe because the shooter has such a funny prospect of being wound on a gosling of that very “light” target? This is a question ... who will give an answer ???
            1. MoJloT
              MoJloT 23 November 2017 10: 49 New
              +1
              Discover America with the Americans, otherwise they don’t know that tanks drive sometimes, very dense.
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 23 November 2017 11: 06 New
                +5
                America has already been discovered ... and the facts, where are the footage of the battle.
                really would not have been trumpeted if it were this ???
                Shots .. facts on the table!
              2. Scoun
                Scoun 23 November 2017 12: 20 New
                +1
                Quote: MoJloT
                Discover America with the Americans, otherwise they don’t know that tanks drive sometimes, very dense.

                It remains only to study the works of American tankers, their large-scale use in tank battles and the concept of their tank school. They are clearly better than German and French.
                1. MoJloT
                  MoJloT 23 November 2017 14: 47 New
                  +1
                  It's about jewels i.e. ATGM, dear where does the work of American tankers? And which tank school is better?
          2. Grim Reaper
            Grim Reaper 23 November 2017 11: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: MoJloT
            On 10? Divide? Did you look good? Yes, he just evaporated! 41 tons of armor and steel tore like a piece of paper.

            No way with a nuclear warhead this javelin. Judging by the video ... belay
          3. Leeds
            Leeds 23 November 2017 11: 09 New
            +3
            Nuclear charge, not otherwise.
            Whether the tank is hit by explosives or not, it will burn anyway, even if without “explosives” there is just BK.
            1. Genry
              Genry 23 November 2017 14: 05 New
              0
              Modern BC does not explode from the "stream". It is very unlikely that it will just catch fire, or more often it will simply melt.
              1. Leeds
                Leeds 23 November 2017 14: 29 New
                +3
                The experience of torn towers in Syria divides into three such a statement.
                1. MORDVIN13rus
                  MORDVIN13rus 23 November 2017 18: 40 New
                  +2
                  And how many of those torn towers ???
      2. Asthma
        Asthma 23 November 2017 11: 04 New
        +1
        that there is nothing left of the tank, how so?
      3. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 23 November 2017 15: 14 New
        +1
        Quote: MoJloT
        Here, dynamic protection is as effective as icons on Prior

        have mercy! this demo with such stuffed explosives is already sucked by all tyrnet laughing
        or do you have such humor and you decide to have fun in the community?
        1. MoJloT
          MoJloT 23 November 2017 15: 19 New
          0
          I have seen a lot, but this is the first time. Where does the data that it is stuffed from?
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 23 November 2017 15: 43 New
            0
            Well, you are just born! laughing 3-4 years all the Internet buzzed. wink
            if in doubt, find another video where Javelin breaks the tank. at least one. You can search by TOW, it is more powerful.
            there is only this statement, the one and only!
            it is strange that you did not notice this ...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfm93yU_3K0
            here is a video with real launches. you want to say that the BMP is stronger than the tank? wassat
            1. MoJloT
              MoJloT 23 November 2017 17: 25 New
              0
              Just at first I saw how a tank was split into molecules.
              1. Sanichsan
                Sanichsan 27 November 2017 14: 43 New
                +1
                do not trust advertising! wink
      4. Whitesnow
        Whitesnow 28 November 2017 13: 27 New
        0
        At the test site in a standing tank in the afternoon. I would have hit this tank with enough sledgehammer.
        And during the battle after the fire rampart, accompanied by BMPT tanks, infantry, helicopters? Even if the calculation and stayed in the bunker, then leaning out of the mink, the goggled homosexual suddenly sees a horse Buryat in scuba gear and a police cap. And that’s it.
        This is a weapon for the war against single BBM and ambushes. And these brothers are not war. These are brothers bullshit.
        I once read the memoirs of a veteran of the Great Patriotic War.
        He talked about participating in some kind of offensive in the second echelon. At first he worked out the artillery RGK, then the army, divisional artillery. So our fighters, seeing the consequences of this firestorm, were themselves horrified. The Germans were dying in the bunker simply because all the oxygen was burned out. And tore to shreds with a dynamic blow.
        Where is the place for the Javelins in this case?
    7. Olgovich
      Olgovich 23 November 2017 11: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Topotun
      Why write nonsense?

      Refute at least one point from his article.
    8. RL
      RL 23 November 2017 13: 55 New
      +1
      But! American tanks do not threaten Russia! While Soviet tanks are fighting "everywhere."
    9. Fylhtq
      Fylhtq 23 November 2017 14: 33 New
      0
      infantry cover of tanks is effective against RPGs, against ATGMs that hit the tank’s forehead it will not give anything, and Jewelin strikes from above, therefore it is effective even for firing from the front.
  2. Spike Javelin Touvich
    Spike Javelin Touvich 23 November 2017 09: 12 New
    +6
    I wonder what kind of tank is protected in front of javelins
    The answer is the one that is deep very deep in the bunker or under the ocean

    Windbreaker does not count against the use of combat
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 23 November 2017 09: 23 New
      +4
      Quote: Spikes Javelin Touvich
      I wonder what kind of tank is protected in front of javelins
      The answer is the one that is deep very deep in the bunker or under the ocean

      Windbreaker does not count against the use of combat

      got out? you’ll touch when you go to Karabakh once again, do you think we’re not teaching lessons? you will be surprised.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 23 November 2017 09: 30 New
        +8
        and where does Karabakh, wise guy? A man writes his opinion.
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 23 November 2017 09: 44 New
          +3
          Quote: xetai9977
          and where does Karabakh, wise guy? A man writes his opinion.

          collegiality ... but at least “smart” would be .. and not that. opinion, it is certainly good if supported by knowledge, and an empty "bunch" - it only spoils the air.
          1. destination
            destination 23 November 2017 09: 58 New
            +7
            And who is the measure here, a clever, stupid opinion was written by a person, aren't you the Most Honorable Honorable Most Intelligent?
    2. novel66
      novel66 23 November 2017 09: 26 New
      +5
      an umbrella from above - and javelin is useless
    3. Temnik 2017
      Temnik 2017 23 November 2017 09: 27 New
      +2
      A towed distracting target is probably the cheapest way to fight a javelin and is suitable for any tank.
  3. Grandfather
    Grandfather 23 November 2017 09: 12 New
    +4
    “Even having a lot of shortcomings, the American anti-tank systems can confidently disable the armored vehicles that are in service.
    only the mattresses themselves, they don’t want to check it, and they never want to, with all the wrong hands. Well, all right, we are simple people, and we’ll give them the hands of others.
    1. volodya
      volodya 23 November 2017 09: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Dead Day
      , we are simple people, and we’ll give them the hands of others.

      Have to tear off your hands with the "javelins"!
      1. novel66
        novel66 23 November 2017 09: 27 New
        +4
        and with the head. for fidelity
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 23 November 2017 09: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: volodya
          Quote: Dead Day
          , we are simple people, and we’ll give them the hands of others.

          Have to tear off your hands with the "javelins"!

          Quote: novel xnumx
          and with the head. for fidelity

          you are cruel ... I too am beginning to be afraid of you. lol
          1. novel66
            novel66 23 November 2017 09: 32 New
            +5
            so far sober, quiet, but soon Friday
            1. Partyzan
              Partyzan 23 November 2017 10: 34 New
              +5
              Quote: novel xnumx
              so far sober, quiet, but soon Friday

    2. MoJloT
      MoJloT 23 November 2017 09: 52 New
      0
      Not stupid people
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Temnik 2017
    Temnik 2017 23 November 2017 09: 17 New
    +1
    Heat traps to the tank on the cable and neh adversary shoots javelins at least in one gulp!
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 23 November 2017 09: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Temnik 2017
      Heat traps to the tank on the cable and neh adversary shoots javelins at least in one gulp!

      more about your offer is possible? belayDo you think that they are on the heat trail? why are they then hitting the tower from above? - do the tankmen smoke? belay
      1. Temnik 2017
        Temnik 2017 23 November 2017 09: 38 New
        +1
        Have you heard the heat traps from MANPADS?
        Well, the tank is even easier:
        shoot inappropriately!
        On the cable termite checker (the most straightforward option)
        javelin pecks at her ir. radiation and all fellow the tank throws a new cable with a saber and drove on.
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 23 November 2017 10: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Temnik 2017
          Have you heard the heat traps from MANPADS?
          Well, the tank is even easier:
          shoot inappropriately!
          On the cable termite checker (the most straightforward option)
          javelin pecks at her ir. radiation and all fellow the tank throws a new cable with a saber and drove on.

          I'm just not special, and I'm interested. and "evelina" only goes to infrared radiation? it’s an anachronism, there’s clearly something else. Our “Cornet” will turn out to be cooler, and Westerners will obviously not breathe evenly, because this is more reliable, the EW systems are sideways. not this way?
      2. just exp
        just exp 23 November 2017 09: 45 New
        +1
        Javelin’s IR GSN, and the tank warms up completely, the silhouette of the entire tank is visible in the thermal imager. not just the engine.
        1. Temnik 2017
          Temnik 2017 23 November 2017 09: 56 New
          0
          Recognition by silhouette?
          And why nowhere do they write about such an option for the javelins, but only about the infrared seeker ??
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 07 New
            0
            so the IG GSN is different, as is the resolution of its matrix.
            Javelin has 64 × 64 pixels for pedivics.
        2. Temnik 2017
          Temnik 2017 23 November 2017 10: 05 New
          0
          The algorithm selects, as the target coordinates, those coordinates of the template overlay that showed the maximum correlation peaks. Up to a distance of 100-300 meters, the target details for the low-resolution matrix like Javelin are almost indistinguishable, therefore the algorithm responds more to the target as a point object.
          If the target photo is very different from the template (shows a weak correlation), then the already new target image is stored as a new set of correlation points (“adapted template”) and repeated from step 2.
          (Wikipedia)
          That is, heat traps for a javelin will be a more attractive object if their radiation is much higher than that of a tank.
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 39 New
            0
            it depends on how many pixels the IR trap will occupy. if it is shallow compared to the tank, it will not bite.
        3. Grandfather
          Grandfather 23 November 2017 10: 28 New
          0
          Quote: just EXPL
          Javelin’s IR GSN, and the tank warms up completely, the silhouette of the entire tank is visible in the thermal imager. not just the engine.

          oh how .... is the tank fully heated? belay you are mistaken, my friend. through the armor, the cooling and exhaust system does not pass. the tank can heat up only when it burns.
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 35 New
            0
            I meant that it is not completely and evenly warmed up and is visible as a single equally heated object, but the fact that the armor begins to differ from the background temperature, and the hotter back is more prominent, but still the whole outline starts to glow.
            so far the most fucked-up matrix seekers are now going to the UR explosives and missiles, look at how it all looks on Python (the matrices are certainly better than javelin there, but from time to time the javelin will improve to this level)
            1. just exp
              just exp 23 November 2017 10: 35 New
              0
              Here is another example, I don’t know the truth from where
              1. Genry
                Genry 23 November 2017 14: 16 New
                0
                And what will happen if support artillery bombards the track of tanks with aerosol shells, periodically masking the tank and knocking over the capture of Javelin from it.
                1. MoJloT
                  MoJloT 23 November 2017 15: 22 New
                  0
                  Gypsies with bears will come out.
                2. just exp
                  just exp 23 November 2017 15: 54 New
                  0
                  in Armata this is already without artillery, there aerosols even protect against radar.
                  and during the battle, no one will shoot at their own tanks, closing their visibility, and to them the same way.
                  1. Genry
                    Genry 29 November 2017 14: 40 New
                    0
                    Quote: just EXPL
                    in Armata this is already without artillery, there aerosols even protect against radar.

                    This is a one-time action when you have to hide sharply. This will not help during the attack. You will simply slip through these clouds, and the tank has a small reserve.
                    Quote: just EXPL
                    and during the battle, no one will shoot at their own tanks, closing their visibility, and to them the same way.

                    What does it mean to shoot your own? Will you be armor-piercing?
                    And you will not block the visibility of the tank, you will simply give it the possibility of periodic shelter and an unexpected change in movement.
                3. Whitesnow
                  Whitesnow 28 November 2017 13: 31 New
                  0
                  Why fire the road in front of tanks? Isn’t it easier to overwhelm the enemy’s defenses with high-explosive fragmentation and BOV?
  6. Fedorov
    Fedorov 23 November 2017 09: 19 New
    +7
    Well, if Khlopotov said - the ultimate truth. The client leaves, the plaster is removed. In short, everything was gone.
    lead the development of miniature ATGM laser detection systems

    At least he himself understood that he had scribbled .. request Tekhnari pull up, otherwise I’m completely stupid here.
  7. Isstiqlal
    Isstiqlal 23 November 2017 09: 24 New
    +3
    the only remedy for now is the Izrail trophy.
    1. just exp
      just exp 23 November 2017 09: 46 New
      0
      this is if the serial product, and even then not completely, the Korean K2 also has a KAZ, though xs how it protects the upper hemisphere.
  8. Mwg
    Mwg 23 November 2017 09: 26 New
    +2
    And the expert is right. Javelin hits tanks from the upper hemisphere. As a rule, tanks from this direction are poorly protected: even during WWII, our IL-2 attack aircraft hit the Germans in towers and the hood from above with NURSs and cannon fire. And now, traditionally, the horizontal armoring of towers and hoods is relatively subtle in tanks - the struggle for weight is nothing to be done.
    However, in Russia, to protect the tank from the upper hemisphere, an active defense system was developed and adopted, and for some reason, it seems to me that the Javelins have successfully tested it too. So the author is right, but was 5 years late with the article)))))
    1. just exp
      just exp 23 November 2017 09: 48 New
      +1
      not really, the aftir already wrote that this issue was worked out with Armata, there Afganit counteracts such ATGMs as Javelin, moreover, Afghanit prevents even ammunition from being guided by ammunition.
      but tanks like T-62,64,72,80,90. to the javelins are still vulnerable.
    2. kirgiz58
      kirgiz58 23 November 2017 11: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: MVG
      even during WWII, our IL-2 stormtroopers hit the Germans on towers and a hood from above with NURSs and cannon fire. And now, traditionally, the horizontal armoring of towers and hoods is relatively subtle in tanks - the struggle for weight is nothing to be done.

      First, read about the effectiveness of various weapons of IL-2 in the destruction of tanks, then you will be surprised at the incorrectness of your statement. And of course, a paragraph for a person commenting on a tank theme to use the word "hood" - you betrayed yourself with your head. wink
  9. CAT BAIYUN
    CAT BAIYUN 23 November 2017 09: 27 New
    +5
    Who wrote the article? Expert or all-tramp?
    1. Felix
      Felix 23 November 2017 09: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: CAT BAYUN
      Who wrote the article? Expert or all-tramp?

      All-Singer Expert
      1. CAT BAIYUN
        CAT BAIYUN 23 November 2017 19: 56 New
        +5
        Well, yes .. He is the most .. All-expert expert of the third category with the right to work for hire ....
  10. Nemesis
    Nemesis 23 November 2017 09: 36 New
    +2
    There is one more way. Russia must make reciprocal military deliveries, including to Donbass. It makes no sense to transfer new weapons to all Plotnitsky, with a very dubious reputation, but in the hands of the well-known, comrade Li-Si-Tsi-Na, Iskander’s rockets will be taken from Bandera’s any desire to shoot Russian foreign ATGMs ... Russia should return its historical territories under its flag, and not produce independent states sitting on the neck of the Russian Federation ... And I do not need to write about the Kremlin’s heroic attempts to not drag Russia into the war. The United States and its allies will be able to arrange a serious provocation at any time, after which the war will become inevitable and the more cowardly commanders will be in Russia, the faster NATO will attack the Russian Federation, believing in the cowardice of the Russian command and its impunity ... Already now the voices of those who believes that, for example, after China’s strike on Novosibirsk, Russia should put up with its loss and not use nuclear weapons in China ... Russia has no way with such people, especially with such people in power ... Only a guaranteed retaliation strike on enemy territory it keeps him from attacking the Russian Federation and it doesn’t matter who this enemy is today, or tomorrow, in the east, or in the west ... Although, in my opinion, a war with Japan is much more likely than a war with China ... But to friends of the United States I’m eager to unleash a war between China and Russia and thereby destroy these two countries so uncomfortable USA ...
    1. Galleon
      Galleon 23 November 2017 09: 58 New
      +6
      Don't get excited, Nemesis. The "partners" are just waiting for us to light up in the Donbass: they will raise a howl at the UN, block the Korean Olympics for the "aggressor" and wreck the 2018 World Cup. And in a couple of months after the start of the events, you will write angry posts not about how vile and passive we are, but about what a villain of GDP, how low his rating has fallen and this power is time in the back of his foot. You do not remember how the Olympics-80 was disrupted? Now this is struggling to do with the 2018 World Cup. The purpose of anti-tank systems is not tanks, the target of anti-tank systems is our president, his position inside the country.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 23 November 2017 10: 48 New
        +4
        1) I don’t give a damn about the Olympics, I’m generally against spending a lot of money on it, while SMS is collected for children on operations ... 2) I don’t support the GDP anyway, because his whole policy is trampling around Yeltsin’s swamp, the installation of monuments to Yeltsin and their protection from the people who do not want to see the monuments to this alcoholic and murderer in Russia. Yeltsin, by his reforms, has killed no less people in Russia than Hitler ... 3) And the partners of your beloved GDP can start a war against the Russian Federation at any time, they will always find a reason, detergent that can be shown in vitro , full in any store ... 4) In 1941, cowards also tried to pacify Hitler, but received June 22 ...
        1. kirgiz58
          kirgiz58 23 November 2017 11: 49 New
          +5
          Quote: Nemesis
          1) I don’t give a damn about the Olympics, I’m generally against spending a lot of money on it, while SMS is collected for children on operations ... 2) I don’t support the GDP anyway, because his whole policy is trampling around Yeltsin’s swamp, the installation of monuments to Yeltsin and their protection from the people who do not want to see the monuments to this alcoholic and murderer in Russia. Yeltsin, by his reforms, has killed no less people in Russia than Hitler ... 3) And the partners of your beloved GDP can start a war against the Russian Federation at any time, they will always find a reason, detergent that can be shown in vitro , full in any store ... 4) In 1941, cowards also tried to pacify Hitler, but received June 22 ...

          So who are you for? And then there are too many words and rhetoric of the general. And do not get off with the stamps "I am for Russia", almost everything is here the real patriots of Russia.
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 23 November 2017 20: 54 New
            0
            Novalny is a return to the center of the Yeltsin swamp, and Putin is walking in circles around the Yeltsin swamp ... I am for those who defended the Russians in Kandapog and Khatkovo, I am against Russophobia in Russia ...
        2. zoolu350
          zoolu350 24 November 2017 07: 22 New
          0
          I agree with everything, with the exception of paragraph 4, it was not cowardice, but the delay of time necessary to create a full-fledged concentration of troops on the border, but did not have time.
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 28 November 2017 13: 40 New
            0
            The Soviet Union could deliver a preemptive strike in May 1941, but in Moscow they scared and inflicted enormous damage on the country. There is nothing worse than a cowardly, not decisive commander.
            1. zoolu350
              zoolu350 29 November 2017 17: 14 New
              0
              And what troops in May 1941 did the USSR deliver a preemptive strike? The ones that were on the border?
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 29 November 2017 18: 39 New
                0
                Air Force bomber aircraft, at stations, ammunition depots, fuel and lubricant depots, troop concentrations ... This would give a significant result. One of the stations, already during the war, was bombed from Pe-8 (aka TB-7, aka ANT-42). They dropped only one experimental high-explosive bomb of 6000 kg ... The axis from the engine was found 12 km from the station ... Aerial bombs of 1000 kg, 2000 kg and 5000 kg of the USSR had in the spring of 1941.
      2. AID.S
        AID.S 23 November 2017 11: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: Galleon
        "aggressor" of the Korean Olympics and will disrupt the 2018 World Cup.

        Hence the conclusion that there is a possibility of a sharp exacerbation in the first half of the 18th year. And here, if exchanged, then, at least, to New Russia to Transnistria.
        1. Galleon
          Galleon 23 November 2017 12: 10 New
          +1
          The first half of 2018 is just around the corner, a month is left. I would like to hope that the winter in the Donbass will be mild, the earth will not freeze, and, wallowing in the mud, the high school students will not go on the attack. Before the spring drying of the chernozem, it is necessary to make an attack on the Donbass impossible or unprofitable. God help everyone who works on this!
    2. Whitesnow
      Whitesnow 28 November 2017 13: 36 New
      0
      Russia did not supply, does not supply, and it is not known whether it will supply the means of war unrecognized by the republics of Donbass. But it cannot forbid it to be done either by the leadership of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or the leadership of South Ossetia. The main suppliers of aircraft LDNR.
  11. Handbrake
    Handbrake 23 November 2017 09: 37 New
    +3
    Amazing How so? In Syria, wonderful "javelins" are not able to penetrate protected T-72 tanks, while they are enough with "adult" dynamic defense systems, and in Donbas they will certainly penetrate, and in Russia too. And immediately, it is necessary to do something that will help destroy the enemy (a funny position) from far away))) The author’s position is to discuss what I don’t understand and talk about what needs to be done to eliminate what I don’t understand)))
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 23 November 2017 09: 48 New
      +3
      in Syria they are not there. There Bassoons and TOUs and Cornets and Babies
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 23 November 2017 10: 24 New
        +4
        I wonder where there are Java, besides Hollywood, of course ???
        Facts of successful application where and when marked ???
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 23 November 2017 10: 28 New
          +3
          In Iraq ... I don’t think there is a problem with applying ... The West has mastered the IR matrix for a long time, Yes, there are systems like TOU with an attack from the tank from above (Cornet cannot do this, for example). Javelin’s range is not high, 2km, And of course it will strike the roof of course.
          1. Sanichsan
            Sanichsan 23 November 2017 15: 24 New
            0
            Duc is that in Iraq then? hit the abandoned Iraqi technology? if there are examples, please be good examples. video for example. The United States loves to take off their exploits as their ISIL wards. definitely have to be the kind with combat use of Javelin!
            or are they not? how so?
      2. just exp
        just exp 23 November 2017 10: 28 New
        0
        there were javelins, the Iraqis repulsed them from ISIS, and to those from the moderate they got them just their mattresses delivered.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 23 November 2017 10: 30 New
          +2
          I have not heard this ... why do they need javelins? For its cost, you can provide 5 TOU from storage.
          1. just exp
            just exp 23 November 2017 10: 46 New
            0
            take a look here
            https://topwar.ru/123398-irakskie-voyska-zahvatil
            iu-igil-ptrk-javelin.html
  12. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 23 November 2017 09: 47 New
    +6
    The primary task of the army sniper - the destruction of the calculations of anti-tank systems and officers was always before Javelin.
    1. askort154
      askort154 23 November 2017 10: 46 New
      0
      Zaurbek ....The primary task of the army sniper - the destruction of the calculations of anti-tank systems and officers was always before Javelin.

      That's right. In Syria, this has been honed in modern combat conditions. There is a film, the work of our SSN in Syria - intelligence and snipers. The effect of their work is amazing. These same guys 5-6 fighters, brought 29 of our military police, who were blocked in a circular, to the battalion of "thugs."
  13. Kent0001
    Kent0001 23 November 2017 09: 53 New
    0
    And what is the "Javelin" range? And can "Terminator" help in this case?
    1. MoJloT
      MoJloT 23 November 2017 15: 56 New
      0
      whichever
  14. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 23 November 2017 09: 58 New
    +5
    Which boil up in the comments rose. Everything is so saliva and spatter. And what is so new that the "expert" wrote? This is true - our 72s are absolutely defenseless against the 3rd generation ATGM (actually the 2nd too). And what's wrong with the fact that it is proposed to increase the protection of tanks from anti-tank systems? Only no one will do this, that's bad.
    The primary task of the army sniper - the destruction of the calculations of anti-tank systems and officers was always before Javelin.

    That's just the arrow of Javelin is much more difficult to hit - he does not need to keep the target in sight and stick around in front of the sniper all the time the flight of the rocket. He shot and hid. But our calculations ATGM will snipers mow, because we have no homing ATGMs of any kind. And, as always, the lack of modern weapons is replaced by a loud propaganda of its uselessness, saying that our 2nd generation is better than their 3rd.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 23 November 2017 10: 30 New
      +6
      And when, where and which tank is fully protected from anti-tank weapons ???
      As in school and college they teach !!! The protection of the tank depends on the professionalism of the crew and of course the competent \ correct use of it !!!
      That's all accounting, for the amount of losses, I, the preservation of personnel.
      1. MoJloT
        MoJloT 23 November 2017 16: 18 New
        0
        But what about the average life expectancy of a tank in battle?
    2. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 23 November 2017 11: 00 New
      0
      What is needed or unnecessary here? The Russian Federation has mastered the production of IR Matrices (kneading French) not so long ago. Three years ago. Javelin analogue is not a primary goal. The primary goal is (personally my opinion) an analogue of Spike with a range of 10-25km. And the replacement of the old anti-tank systems and anti-tank guns with modern Cornets with automatic target tracking.
  15. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 23 November 2017 10: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Solomon Kane
    people with such a fool on a hump are optimally traced and destroyed, as a potentially dangerous object .... first of all.

    What has been proven in Syria, where several of the best Javelin gunners of the terrorists have already been destroyed.
  16. Livonetc
    Livonetc 23 November 2017 10: 06 New
    +3
    After the appearance of the Javelins in Syria, they are already very likely to be in Russia.
    Who should already work.
    "Calm.
    Just calm. "
  17. Viktorfi
    Viktorfi 23 November 2017 10: 10 New
    0
    The most interesting thing is that if you look at the conflict in Georgia, you get the feeling that Russia has neither modern tanks nor active protection for them.

    I still do not understand why in that conflict, if you look at the losses of Russian equipment, there were old tanks there.
    They really couldn’t throw more modern equipment into the conflict than the T-62M, T-72, BMP-1, etc.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka 23 November 2017 10: 22 New
      +3
      During the Georgian conflict, our forces were very weak after the 90s. They were just starting to rebuild at that time. And there was no corny modern technology in that direction - and they didn’t have time to throw it there. Our country is not 20 to 30 km. But the war lasted only a few days.
      1. Viktorfi
        Viktorfi 23 November 2017 10: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Muvka
        During the Georgian conflict, our forces were very weak after the 90s.


        Already there were many modern tanks all the same 2008.

        I just thought that such junk should no longer participate in conflicts at all.

        All the same, this is not the depths of Russia and the troops must possess more modern equipment.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka 23 November 2017 11: 19 New
          +1
          There was no time to throw modern tanks. They are all westbound, I suspect. And I repeat. Our country is huge - it is difficult to quickly throw tanks.
        2. MoJloT
          MoJloT 23 November 2017 16: 21 New
          +1
          The IS-3 was removed from service in 93. So everything is known by comparison.
    2. rotmistr60
      rotmistr60 23 November 2017 10: 25 New
      +1
      Couldn’t have been able to throw more modern equipment into the conflict

      Sorry, there was no time to consult with Israel, the bill went on for minutes.
      1. Viktorfi
        Viktorfi 23 November 2017 10: 58 New
        0
        Quote: rotmistr60
        Sorry, there was no time to consult with Israel, the bill went on for minutes.


        For seconds ... wink
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 23 November 2017 10: 54 New
      +4
      There were modern tanks, but the 58th army was in that region and was one of the most combat-ready at that time. The war in Georgia revealed a lot of problems and old tanks are the most insignificant part of them.
    4. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 23 November 2017 15: 30 New
      0
      Quote: Viktorfi
      The most interesting thing is that if you look at the conflict in Georgia, you get the feeling that Russia has neither modern tanks nor active protection for them.

      from Russia or Georgia? didn’t mix anything up? how many tanks in this conflict did Russia lose?
      1. Black5Raven
        Black5Raven 25 November 2017 00: 04 New
        0
        More important is the number of planes lost. And most of the friendly fire what
  18. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 23 November 2017 10: 22 New
    0
    Well, and what such Khlopotov stated it was not clear that everyone flooded this way? Yes, we need to create such protection for our armored vehicles so that the crews of armored vehicles think little about it. And Khlopotov is right. In addition to active protection, we need to find American ATGMs in advance according to their specific signs of which there are many. After all, they need to cool their homing heads, and this already requires the creation of such units.
  19. Alexex
    Alexex 23 November 2017 10: 36 New
    0
    I am not an expert ... but I can read. See "The Americans tested the Soviet system Drozd" ... interestingly there they shot from the Javelins ??? if there are knowledgeable people tell me ... otherwise something does not fit in the messages ...
  20. unignm
    unignm 23 November 2017 10: 50 New
    0
    have not yet come up with a tank which our vampire could not bite
  21. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 23 November 2017 10: 51 New
    0
    KAZ needs modern tanks urgently. Even without the Javelins, the TOU and the Cornets will gut any tanks, even in the forehead, even in the ass ...
    1. Elephant
      Elephant 23 November 2017 11: 30 New
      +3
      Javelin - 3rd generation ATGM. Only Israel and India have analogs. And our cheers-patriots (all the troubles from them) have raised, they are ready to throw their caps over the enemy and scare them with their bare ass ... We must really look for effective ways to protect ourselves.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 23 November 2017 13: 20 New
        0
        KAZ will bring down a javelin. ATGMs are massive weapons and the army should have what is well mastered by industry. I would start with the introduction of KAZ on all our tanks in constant readiness units.
  22. Cxnumx
    Cxnumx 23 November 2017 11: 06 New
    0
    Russian tanks are defenseless before the Javelins

    Well, if ancient RPGs (and sometimes just heavy machine guns) can confidently hit abrams ... laughing
  23. Sergey53
    Sergey53 23 November 2017 11: 11 New
    0
    This topic has already been raised so many times, but by 0. How much do they write about the insecurity of the turret in the upper and front \ gun mask \ plane and has anything changed? The T-72 used by the former members of the VD is finalized, but in our industry it cannot. What the hell is this?
  24. Strashila
    Strashila 23 November 2017 11: 18 New
    0
    As Raikin said ... for complete happiness something should always be missing. Techniques will always have flaws and they need to be minimized. The basis of victory will always be intelligence, communications, preparedness and training, coordination and interaction of units.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 23 November 2017 12: 48 New
      +3
      This would be the tactics of the tanker, in discussion, he would explain where the tank "steers" and where it is impossible to drive.
      The bulk of the heavy equipment designed for linear combat.
      For assault urban combat, the equipment is equipped / designed differently, and the tactics of use are different.
      Now a question? Our army is preparing to storm the city gate. The Syrian company et episode.
      If someone climbs to capture other cities, he will get the same problems as the SAA.
      So there is a lot of talk, but no one in a SERIOUS classic armored vehicle is in a hurry to change. Modify, come up with various useful gadgets for technology, but for some reason there are no fundamental changes in the concept!
      So guess why?
  25. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 23 November 2017 11: 29 New
    +3
    I agree 100% about the installation of KAZ and more advanced DZ on tanks and all armored vehicles, but about the snipers and artillerymen who will hunt precisely for the ATGM calculations, Javelin is all nonsense, you won’t put a platoon of snipers for each tank, and they’re nothing they won’t help that they will run ahead of the tank during a tank attack ?! Javelin has a range of 2500 meters, and not every 800 meter sniper hits the target ...
    Armored vehicles simply need to have self-defense against ATGMs, both active and passive, so it will be more reliable. And disguise will be even more important, the use of such means as the “Cape” it hides the tank even from the thermal imager, which means that it will be more difficult for the thermal homing head of Javelin to aim at the target, or maybe it will not be able to aim at all ...
    And in order not to hit your KAZ infantry, you can make it in sectors, for example, on the front and rear, when infantry is behind the tank, the KAZ can be turned off from the rear, as well as from the front for certain tasks, when necessary ...
    1. MoJloT
      MoJloT 23 November 2017 16: 26 New
      +1
      Well done, and then here some with these miracle snipers are already surprising.
    2. Sergey53
      Sergey53 23 November 2017 21: 24 New
      0
      It is for these purposes that BMPT is needed. Its task is to remove grenade launchers, ATGM calculations.
      1. Ratmir_Ryazan
        Ratmir_Ryazan 24 November 2017 23: 45 New
        +1
        BMPT ATGM calculation how to detect ?! But the BMPT ATGM calculation can be easily detected and quickly hit, and the crew of this BMPT will not understand where the death came from ...

        They themselves were sitting in military technique ?! Well, how is the review excellent ?! Probably especially on the go))) And in a battle it’s so wonderful everything will be visible especially in urban areas ...

        BMPT can and has the right to life, practice will show, but it also needs KAZ and DZ from all sides and preferably a panoramic sight with all the channels and thermal and infrared and conventional ...
  26. weksha50
    weksha50 23 November 2017 12: 53 New
    0
    "Independent military expert Alexei Khlopotov believes that in its present form, all Russian production tanks are practically defenseless against these complexes"...

    Ahem ... Strange ... These "Javelins" have been so many years old ... And all this time, our scientists, designers, military and industrialists have been complacent, sipping who is tea, who is cognac ??? And did not think about the defenselessness of our tanks ???
    And the concept of "defenselessness of the tank" is very loose ...
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 23 November 2017 13: 25 New
      +4
      And this “independent expert” considers it’s counting how you can protect the shooter in a linear battle, in an open field, steppe or desert from shrapnel. fragments and other joy. which will fly in the direction of sales not an obvious shooter. and in the place of the alleged ambush, heat, or where the grass has moved. It is not otherwise shaw cyborgs with java will run.
      In short, there is a means of destruction, there will be a counteraction to it, but for a tank, this is primarily a maneuver and speed.
      Not for nothing that none of the alleged enemy refused any anti-tank weapons, having saturated the army with javas, etc. systems.
      The whole strike force is opposed to the great striking force that armored units represent ... grenade launchers here are the last chance for the infantry to defend themselves against the threat of being rolled into a pancake.
      Fight in urban environments, a separate issue. It has specificity, however.
    2. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 24 November 2017 23: 57 New
      0
      It’s just all right, in Russia it’s always like that until a mountain of corpses of Russian soldiers appears, no one moves at the top, remember though when Contact-1 began to be put on the tanks that were sent to Chechnya, and not even that, only after huge losses from ATGMs and RPG in the city !!! They didn’t know that a tank without DZ for calculating RPGs in the city and PTUKR in the field is just a target ?! They knew they just didn’t give a damn, because the son of a man who brought tanks into Chechnya did not serve in the army and did not intend to, he humored on TV, and then married Pugacheva and now lives with her in the castle ... And you say why you didn’t think, Yes, they wanted to spit on ordinary fighters, not to think about them and how to protect them in battle or provide everything necessary ...
      After a devastating defeat during the storming of Grozny, you think somehow punished Galkin Alexander Alexandrovich, Colonel General, who until 1997 headed the main armored directorate of the Russian Ministry of Defense, for the fact that the tanks were not prepared for battle, and where there were even containers for DZ, there was no filler for them ?! There was no punishment, then he also became a deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation ...
  27. sir_obs
    sir_obs 23 November 2017 15: 13 New
    +2
    All this talk is about nothing.
    "Experts" argue about what they never saw alive, and all only from the words of some sources there and other popular mechanics.
    How can you argue about something you don’t know in principle? One can argue with the same success on the topic of steel grade or new alloys. If you are not a metalurgist, then all you can give is links to some people or articles (usually not scientific, but from popular publications)
    I am not a tanker and once fired from an RPG and a recoilless gun. All the impressions of the pokatushek on the tank, it’s a complete baffle how to fight in this thing at all, and from a shot from an RPG (especially from a recoilless gun) it’s completely crazy, like a damn loud ... no more feelings
    The Marines, on a return visit, visited our boat and were in similar perplexity, how is it even possible to serve here and, if so, to survive?
    I mean, to draw serious conclusions, and not, as our commander said, "fart in agony," You need to understand on your own skin what you are discussing. Have the appropriate education, experience and at least once visit a real combat situation.
    This is like in a conversation between two cowboys from the wild west. This is the best revolver! And why? Because I'm still alive!
  28. Sanichsan
    Sanichsan 23 November 2017 17: 24 New
    +2
    Dear!
    I was looking for video information on this very Javelin and I had one question, and this prodigy in general once tried to use in combat conditions ???
    did not find any videos with combat use. only at the training ground or in advertising clips. in the USA is this miracle weapon equivalent to a strategic one that they are afraid to use it in battle?
    1. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan 24 November 2017 23: 58 New
      0
      In Iraq, they often used them ...
      1. Sanichsan
        Sanichsan 27 November 2017 14: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
        In Iraq, they often used them ...

        where exactly. for what purposes. what are the results. please video application.
        I did not find. only demonstrations and shooting at the firing range.
        while from the section "well, we dived under the Russian submarine and broke its bottom."
  29. Victor-M
    Victor-M 23 November 2017 18: 08 New
    0
    Expert: Russian tanks are still defenseless before "Javelins"

    And why then are electronic warfare systems being developed? So apply in combination with tanks, to cover the latter.
  30. Svarozhich
    Svarozhich 23 November 2017 19: 07 New
    0
    Something intuition tells me that it is precisely because the Javelins have a complex target recognition system, the distance to it is a good property for deceiving it, and destroying this ammunition with tricks at the cost of a tourist tent can become our tankers' favorite pastime.
  31. zoolu350
    zoolu350 23 November 2017 20: 40 New
    0
    I don’t understand why many Javelin ATGM fans think of Wunderwaffles. The missiles of this ATGM are aimed at the thermal circuit of the target, which can change at a time in battle conditions and after that the expensive blank will stupidly not get anywhere.
  32. Eflintuk
    Eflintuk 23 November 2017 22: 11 New
    0
    We are clearly talking about the use of Jewels in the DNR-LNR, and here you are again about the "indestructible power" of the Russian army ...
  33. Vadim237
    Vadim237 23 November 2017 22: 53 New
    +1
    Our tanks and armored vehicles should be wary of AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire and Brimstone 2 missiles.
  34. rocket757
    rocket757 24 November 2017 09: 00 New
    +3
    There is armored, protected equipment - means / countermeasures will be made.
    The theme will exist and develop while this equipment is in service.
    By the way, missiles more abruptly developed and ... expensive, not every army / state can afford it, especially on a massive scale. In each state there are structures \ ministry of finance and "cut wings of warriors", in the interests of economy !!! there is one.
  35. Evgeny Kazakov
    Evgeny Kazakov 24 November 2017 09: 52 New
    0
    What to guess? In Syria, it is not difficult to get such a rocket launcher. Take yes shell the 90th. And the "experts" are all like Safronov the artist, Chubais - the economist, and Tsereteli - the sculptor
  36. Lena Petrova
    Lena Petrova 24 November 2017 13: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "" Armata "quietly collapsed" ////

    That's collapsed, he was not mistaken. Mass production is not planned.

    Collapsed, this is when they will not release anything at all.
  37. Vadim Kurbatov
    Vadim Kurbatov 24 November 2017 18: 07 New
    0
    And which tank can withstand getting into the weakest protected part of the tank? name at least one such
  38. Print_Factory
    Print_Factory 24 November 2017 21: 05 New
    0
    Well, yes ... we heard that
  39. Sergey Minin
    Sergey Minin 25 November 2017 22: 11 New
    +1
    Never in their life will tanks be able to withstand anti-tank weapons. They are for the other. This does not mean that they do not need to be protected. We are all talking about Javelin, and it costs 248 thousand dollars. 100 thousand rocket. It needs to be cooled with nitrogen, etc. So there is still an Israeli anti-tank system "Spike" even more effective. Well, anti-tank Kornet range 5.5 km or anti-tank Korned -D range of 10 km, I think not one tanker would not want to meet. As for the DLNR tanks, they are very old, but I think these Javelins will not make the weather.
  40. a-duhanin58
    a-duhanin58 26 November 2017 20: 01 New
    0
    Oh, I feel that the krivorukovy Ukrainian fighters are overshooting each other with these javelins! Poor things ...
  41. Peregon zameuka
    Peregon zameuka 27 November 2017 05: 11 New
    0
    Personally, I do not care about the new military spending while sugar at 39 r in the store, and not at 51 as last year.
  42. tank64rus
    tank64rus 28 November 2017 18: 06 New
    0
    No need to make Wunderwafle out of the Javelins. There are advantages and disadvantages. This is for any type of weapon.
  43. panzerfaust
    panzerfaust 28 November 2017 20: 37 New
    0
    Javelin, if he successfully reaches the goal, hits the tower from above, it will be necessary to weld the grates.
  44. serj.iwanow1000
    serj.iwanow1000 30 November 2017 11: 07 New
    0
    The trouble is that few know history, but very many watch historically false fictional films, read historical false books and are brought up on these films and other works! And this is a great crime of the authors before future generations. Creation of such vicious, deceitful and fictional plots that destroy young souls, for which they need to be judged and imprisoned, as the most ardent criminals!
    There is such a parable: A criminal killer, a soldier and chased, lying scoundrels — a scribbler, journalist, director, liberal politician and priest — appeared before God. God tells them.
    - I will repay you all according to your deserts, well, tell me honestly, without lying about who, what sins are listed?
    Here is the killer criminal responding first. - God forgive me, I committed many crimes because of my stupidity and because of the difficulty of my hard, awkward life, I even killed a person once. It can be seen fate in my hell to rot! I repent before you repent! The great blame lies with me for the ruined soul!
    God looked at him strictly and carefully, and said to the angels: "Send him to purgatory, and then to heaven! And there it will be seen!"
    - Well, you're a soldier, what do you say? - God asks him!
    - I, too, am sinful before you God! I fought for my homeland with her enemies, I ruined many souls in this terrible war not wanting this, but in debt I defended my people from the aggressor! Forgive me. God is guilty. I am in front of you and those killed by me!
    - I know everything about your life and death and I know everything! And God said to the angels. “Take him to Paradise, let his soul be warmed up with goodness and love, and then send him back in a new guise, let him live a new life, bring benefit and correct his past life for humanity!”
    Well, you tell me, God looked very evil at the rest!
    “God forgive us if we are sinful before you!” - The chorus was interspersed with prayers of false and selfish scribbler, journalist, liberal politician and pop. We didn’t commit crimes and murders, we wrote articles, books, made films for people, managed society, taught people faith in you as they could and could. “Yes, you tried well,” God said sternly. - I know everything and know about you and the priest! And he says to the devil and demons: "Take them to hell, let them repent and atone for their great sin, and then we will see. And the false scribe, journalist, director, politician and priest prayed:" God forgive us, for which we such torment? After all, we didn’t kill anyone, we didn’t commit crimes, why do we need such a punishment? "I know everything, I know everything, you didn’t understand your sins, not before me, but before humanity. You have corrupted me a lot of souls with your deceit and self-interest, there is no forgiveness you until you wave off in hell!

    Never again lie to those who from childhood have cared for you, trying to make you good people! Without the Soviet government, the Communists and the Great October Socialist Revolution, many of you traitors who have taken the side of capitalism serve him as greedy, self-serving people and other similar gentlemen as liberals, anti-communists, anti-Soviet with Nazis and nationalists in their arms - verbiage, liars, slanderers to the Soviet power and the history of Russia and the USSR, for the most part, they would have been nothing, at best insects and bedding from their wealthy masters, slaves or farm laborers! You have no conscience and honor, you have betrayed the great deeds of your ancestors, those who brought you to the people and protected you from destruction and slavery, leaving you a more just society and the state of the USSR!