The search operation of the Argentine submarine is approaching the "critical stage"

The Argentine Navy does not lose hope to save the crew of the missing submarine, but at the same time they recognize that the rescue operation is approaching a critical point, reports TASS message from the representative fleet Enrique Balbi.

The concern is growing. Gradually, we are moving to a critical stage, since the sixth day out of seven, if we are talking about one of three options, in which the vessel is under water and cannot rise to the surface and replenish oxygen reserves,

Balba told reporters.

At the same time, he noted that the crew has "the potential to save oxygen."

We do not lose hope. Tomorrow weather conditions will be even better, and already today ships could patrol the search zone more effectively,

added on.

Meanwhile, according to weather forecasts, the weather may soon deteriorate again.

San Juan diesel-electric submarines, carrying the crew member 44, stopped communicating on November 15. Active search began on the evening of November 16.

Comments

[Baloo]

I’m not a submariner and generally land, and therefore I have a question: does the design of a submarine in any country not involve the release of an emergency buoy with a beacon in a similar situation automatically?

[KRIK33]

Also far from the underwater elements, but I definitely agree with you ... The elementary thing is to help in the search for a submarine ...

[Sierra]

And if they should not find her ...

[rotmistr60]

Of course, it assumes if the crew had such an opportunity. An explosion, a fire on board, etc. the situation simply will not allow this to be done. Therefore, the result of searches will be the darkest.

[210ox]

They died. It is a pity both them and the family of submariners ..

Quote: rotmistr60

Of course, it assumes if the crew had such an opportunity. An explosion, a fire on board, etc. the situation simply will not allow this to be done. Therefore, the result of searches will be the darkest.

[igorka357]

The designs of some high-tech submarines have the ability to release a buoy without crew participation, unless of course such a system is damaged! The buoy is simply released automatically, for example, when a boat falls to critical depths!

[siberalt]

Hopes to save the crew are vain. Very sorry!

[Sergey53]

Everything suggests. For some reason, the beacon was not released.

[Raphaell]

They can’t find, having approximately the place of the submarine. How is NATO going to find our modern Russian submarines

[igorka357]

A boat sailing in the depths, with the HOOK turned on, and other systems, this is one thing ... but lying on the ground, unfortunately it’s rather a dead submarine..this is different, from the word at all!

[BAI]

Perhaps the most fierce debate arose over the beacon, which should be placed in the hull of the submarine and automatically released to the surface, and then transmit the appropriate signals as soon as the boat reaches a certain depth. Advocates of such a device, recognizing that in wartime an accidental release of a buoy could lead to an attack by enemy forces on a submarine, at the same time, they argue that the buoy can be removed before the boat enters a combat position.

However, it is more than likely that American submarines already now from time to time carry out various delicate tasks. In such conditions, an accidentally released beacon will lead to a more than sensitive situation.

Of course, the Navy could equip its nuclear submarines with all the necessary devices to ensure their complete safety, but in this case, these boats would no longer be suitable for anything. Meanwhile, no one will deny that submarines are a weapon of war and service on them is one of the most dangerous pursuits.

I think this applies to diesel boats in Argentina.


DEPL Argentine Navy "San Juan"

[venik]

Quote: Balu

the design of a submarine in any country does not involve the release of an emergency beacon with a beacon in a similar situation automatically?

===========
Provides! But ... Not always this is possible! For example, on the Kursk, none of the two buoys “went out”! Deformation of the body ....... What happened here .....
In addition, the command to "release" the emergency beacon should be given from the bridge .... Well, if there was a rapid destruction of the solid hull (for example, due to "falling" beyond the maximum depth), then ..... You understand !!!

[BAI]

So he wanted to raise the topic of "Kursk". Just on the topic now rummaged. They found white-green buoys - English. And now it is claimed that the boat was - "Splendid." And it still lies there, but Memphis has nothing to do with it. And the topic, accordingly, was released on the brakes, so as not to inflate the international scandal (as I understand it, Russia was still not in the same position after the EBN in order to swing rights). And then they are still surprised how everything happened with the downed bomber in Syria.

[Sirocco]

Quote: BAI

They found white-green buoys - English.

At least someone touched on the topic with Kursk, and these strange buoys, white-green in color, which then disappeared, personally saw a video of this buoy on TV, and I remember that, but unfortunately I didn’t find the news video, but I remember the nonsense about the sea jellyfish, and not the buoy .Now, on the topic, most likely, the submarine died, otherwise they would have found, maybe helped her to die, only who, here's the question. Well, and what problems did she have before the loss?

[Baloo]

Quote: venik

Provides! But ... Not always this is possible! For example, on the Kursk, none of the two buoys “went out”! Deformation of the body ....... What happened here .....
In addition, the command to "release" the emergency beacon should be given from the bridge ....

Maybe you need to change the safety standard - the release of the buoy with a sharp life-critical pressure drop of the partial pressure of oxygen in the air in the control compartment with duplication?

[annodomene]

And what’s the second buoy on the Kursk? And from which bridge, for example in PP, can I give commands?

[Warrior with machine gun]

there is such a thing, but when it has constructive flaws, they begin to do all the nonsense, we had a case in the fleet (it seems with Komsomolets, but I don’t remember exactly), there these buoys popped up unauthorized more than once, they didn’t think of anything smarter how to weld them to the hull, when the accident happened the buoy naturally didn’t come up, they told me this incident in the service in 99, but here it feels like the ameroboski have messed up something, fussing too much in the search.

[igorka357]

Rather, in all countries assumes!

[Krasnyiy komissar]

The Argentines are sorry, but they had almost no chance of escape. The accident on diesel-electric submarines requires an immediate rescue operation, although they still cannot determine the location of the emergency submarine. It is possible that the boat fell into the depths and was crushed by the thickness of the water. Just why the beacon was not thrown?
That is why I am against the construction of diesel-electric submarines for the Russian Navy. Autonomy in diesels is null, and the oxygen supply is limited to several days at a depth. In combat conditions, this means the need to climb to periscope depth to recharge the batteries and ventilate all compartments with fresh air (the air purification system cannot eliminate all pollution), which makes the crew suicide bombers.

[Dead duck]

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

That is why I am against the construction of diesel-electric submarines for the Russian Navy.

Did Kursk somehow help that it was not a diesel submarine?
Situations are different and everywhere you can’t lay a straw.

[Krasnyiy komissar]

Kursk was destroyed, as evidenced by the visit of the CIA director to Moscow a few days after the tragedy and the Americans writing off part of the public debt. 118 people were sacrificed to the political situation, so the GDP to live with this until the end of life.

[Alexeyklg]

There was no choice for GDP, I think any other, if it wasn’t ... from, I would have done the same. A thin world is better than a good war.

[Dead duck]

Firstly it makes no difference.
Secondly, you need a doctor, your fantasies have "played out".

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

That's why I am against the construction of diesel-electric submarines for the Russian Navy ... which makes the crew suicide bombers.

Thank God that your opinion on this topic does not interest anyone.

[Krasnyiy komissar]

Justify yours, but do not poke me! DEPL is a 2MV technology, even fuel cells and a Stirling engine will not help much here. In this form, they are needed only by third world countries, and not all of them. Atom is the future of the submarine fleet (the exception is soapy and ultra-small submarines), although some stubbornly cling to ancient rubbish. The United States, Britain and France generally abandoned diesel-electric submarines as part of their naval forces, realizing their futility, while China is actively building nuclear submarines of projects 095 and 097.

[Dead duck]

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

DEPL is 2MB technology

You won’t believe it, but technology has long been “stepped in front of”

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

although some stubbornly cling to ancient rubbish. The United States, Britain and France generally abandoned diesel-electric submarines as part of their Navy, realizing their futility

Yeah ... and at the NATO exercises, many were not pleasantly surprised by the "freaks" of the diesel-electric submarines breaking through the guard convoy ...

[Popovich]

commissar, he is also a commissar in Africa, he doesn’t understand anything ... he only collects rallies! and the lack of mind replaces with slogans ...

[igorka357]

Cram in the Baltic submarines, they are there like a whale in shallow water, before you speak, think!

[Popovich]

Quote: Krasnyiy komissar

That is why I am against the construction of diesel-electric submarines for the Russian Navy.

this is fully consistent with leberast debelism ...
clearly not in the subject! but something needs to be blurt out ...
such wise guys almost ruined the country, they don't need to build rockets (they can explode) ships don't have to cost (can sink) children don't need to give birth (they can die ....)

[forcecom]

Briefly - the Black and Baltic Seas - “non-nuclear” - cannot have ships with nuclear or nuclear weapons on board here, further, nuclear submarines are more demanding for the depth of work - if I’m not mistaken then the standard is at least 50 meters under the bottom to the ground ( I’m not talking about the emergency maneuver - there should be at least 1,5-2 hull lengths; I’m talking about the operation of the nuclear power plant — the intakes of the reactor cooling system under the belly, and this requires a guaranteed layer of water to prevent siltation). and given that according to the standards of secrecy over submarines, in order to avoid visual detection, there should be 50 meters of water, and in some areas with high transparency of water at least 1,5 transparency distances, + the submarine itself is far from small and it turns out that nuclear powered ships should work well depths of more than 150 meters, all that is less than just should overlap diesel-electric submarines.
I won’t say anything for the Argentinean life buoy, but from my own experience I know about ours, the design was, so to speak, not very successful, and even rust and oxidation during long-term operation, and even in the absence of proper maintenance, they were forgotten about, and for that that the buoy was "shot" during autonomous operations and dragged behind the boat, the commander was usually removed in Soviet times, and the rest of the senior submarine command could put an end to his career. So there were cases when buoys were tightly welded "to avoid" ....
PS "Kursk" ditched first of all its own command drove a 154-meter boat to a depth of 107 meters (this is despite the fact that in order to perform an emergency maneuver she had to have at least 220-230 meters under her belly) If you are very interested, write in a personal explain on the fingers what it is, and at the same time about the features of the "national design" of nuclear submarines in the USSR and the USA.

[annodomene]

PS "Kursk" ditched first of all its own command drove a 154-meter boat to a depth of 107 meters (this is despite the fact that in order to perform an emergency maneuver she had to have at least 220-230 meters under her belly) If you are very interested, write in a personal explain on the fingers what it is, and at the same time about the features of the "national design" of nuclear submarines in the USSR and the USA. [/ quote]
The Kursk was located in the regular ranges of the BP SF, the depth under the keel has nothing to do with it ..

[Dead duck]

Quote: Forcecom

not less than 50 meters under the bottom to the ground

for normal maneuvering not less than the length of the boat

Quote: Forcecom

"Kursk" ruined first own command

There, the sum of the factors worked ...

[forcecom]

In the course, I had in mind the minimally safe depth for normal operation of the reactor, in general I am silent about military use.

[Dead duck]

Quote: Forcecom

minimum safe depth for normal reactor operation

but from this place for more details please

[forcecom]

But it’s impossible to get more details. He studied naval affairs at the WWMURE, and as you know, “For Lux, everything beyond 4 compartments is a screw,” fate and distribution were reduced to only 641 and 636 projects.
So, those not too extensive knowledge about the operation of the reactor, more like memories, were badly beaten by moths, covered with dust, they were not useful to me in my life and service and date back to the training sessions at the TUZhK department.
Memories that in order to avoid siltation of the intakes of the cooling system under the bottom of the boat should be at least 50 meters just from those times.

And you sir, what military school did you graduate? and in what posts did you get acquainted with the hardware? you are our smiling.

[annodomene]

Each class pl is designed to solve its own range of problems. Universal pl, alas, has not yet been invented.

[Ingvar0401]

The United States, Britain and France generally abandoned diesel-electric submarines as part of their naval forces, realizing their futility, while China is actively building nuclear submarines of projects 095 and 097.
However, the same Americans were transporting a Swedish Gotland dpl to their home to train their anti-submariners

[forcecom]

Quote: annodomene

The Kursk was located in the regular ranges of the BP SF, the depth under the keel has nothing to do with it ..

The strike on the ground was fatal for the Kursk, I point out once again that for the 949 emergency maneuver, the project needs up to 250 meters of reserve in depth. But the depth under the keel has nothing to do with it.

[Baloo]

Quote: Forcecom

Quote: annodomene

The Kursk was located in the regular ranges of the BP SF, the depth under the keel has nothing to do with it ..

The strike on the ground was fatal for the Kursk, I point out once again that for the 949 emergency maneuver, the project needs up to 250 meters of reserve in depth. But the depth under the keel has nothing to do with it.

From what I read in the Russian media, I have a picture like this: version1: there was a civilian representative of the torpedo plant on board, I had to try a new torpedo that “leaked” and caused a fire.
version 2: when loading the torpedo was damaged, when diving the torpedo “leaked” and caused a fire, then an explosion. This is for short.

[BAI]

And what exploded from this blow, so that Norway recorded if

On the Kursk, which went out to sea for only two or three days, there were only practical torpedoes (instead of explosives in combat charging compartments - autographs, light and radio beacons, especially if it was a question of testing power plants of new torpedoes), which Naturally, they could not explode. True, an explosion of their solid propellant engines (if we are talking about jet torpedoes) or fuel components (if the torpedoes were hydrogen peroxide) could occur, but the power of such an explosion would not be so great. Moreover, there were a maximum of two of these most practical torpedoes, and according to published data, Dagdiesel experts tested an electric torpedo on the Kursk, in which there was nothing to explode at all.

[forcecom]

Quote: Balu

From what I read in the Russian media, I have a picture like this: version1: there was a civilian representative of the torpedo plant on board, I had to try a new torpedo that “leaked” and caused a fire.
version 2: when loading the torpedo was damaged, when diving the torpedo “leaked” and caused a fire, then an explosion. This is for short.

In the underwater position, the submarine has zero buoyancy, the depth changes due to horizontal rudders, only for ascent it is necessary to blow through the central cylinder. Any emergency situation associated with the flow of water into a sturdy hull or flooding of tanks leads to the submarine acquiring negative buoyancy and starting to fail. To understand what is happening (and in the "central" people are not gods (song "9th compartment")) and an adequate reaction (purging the Central City Hospital, and indeed all other tanks, shifting the rudders "on ascent", development of full speed) the crew needs time for which the submarine plunges on average (we consider the situation when the accident is not fatal in itself, and the crew is properly trained and knows what to do in an emergency) for 1,5-2 hull lengths, by the way, when designing submarines (I speak for the USSR ) this was taken into account, and if the maximum submersion depth of the submarine was 600 meters and the length of the submarine was 100 meters (conditionally), then the maximum immersion depth for which the robust hull was designed was 750 meters.
The Kursk did not have a depth reserve.

[water]

The further I read articles about this boat, the angrier I get. Tired of lying "cry" effective military commanders from the Argentine Navy. Indeed, it is clear to anyone who served in the MSS of the USSR Navy that, under the most favorable conditions, at the end of the fourth day, personnel in a sunken submarine come to a state of complete apathy. He is no longer able to even make any decision on his own, let alone leave the boat, even if a rescue underwater vehicle was safely docked with it. In this case, the crew of the device will have to manually drag the divers to themselves.
In the Argentine Navy, as in the American one, at the beginning of the 2000s they scrapped their multifunctional ships - Submarine Rescuers, replacing them with modular systems containing remotely controlled submarines - such unmanned self-propelled rescue bells and normobaric (hard) spacesuits. All this was supposed to be transported by aircraft to the port closest to the crash site, loaded onto a vessel suitable for deployment, and headed to the area. However, due to organizational inconsistencies, the norm of arrival in the area was 180 hours. And this time is twice the critical life time of personnel in the compartments. The "effective" management decided to save on rescue vessels with deep-sea diving complexes - now submariners pay for this with their lives.

[vladimych]

It seems that a boat from South America has already disappeared, then it was found that heroin was carrying.