Military Review

The national question turned revolutionaries into statesmen

151
The national question turned revolutionaries into statesmenExactly 100 years ago, the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia was published, signed by Lenin and Stalin. The main claim to this document is that it became a foundation for disintegration historical Russia, because it indulged the separatists and relied on a revolutionary utopia. But is it really so?


The Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia is one of those documents of the Council of People’s Commissars signed by Lenin and Stalin (at that time the People's Commissar for the Affairs of Nationalities of the RSFSR), which are now almost forgotten. And in vain. He illustrates well how the victorious revolutionaries thought and acted in the first days, weeks and months of their time in power.

In Soviet times, there was not a broad, comprehensive analysis of the first leading practices of the Bolsheviks - their evolution from revolutionaries to statesmen remained behind the scenes. The discussion was dominated by the idea of ​​the actual infallibility of the party of the proletariat, equipped with the most advanced teachings of Marx and Engels. In the post-Soviet period, ideological restrictions were lifted, but the situation in the country was such that such “trifles” simply did not reach out.

At the same time, the Bolsheviks, who possess serious experience in party, organizational, and underground work, had no experience in public administration. The said declaration, its form and, more importantly, its content is a vivid example.

General emancipation and its consequences

The very construction of the declaration is very characteristic. The document is more like a sketch of speech for a rally, that is, a form that is much more familiar to revolutionaries than a government decree. “The October revolution of the workers and peasants began under the common banner of emancipation,” it said. - The peasants are liberated from the power of the landowners, for there is no longer landlord ownership of land ... Soldiers and sailors are liberated from the power of autocratic generals, for the generals will henceforth be elected and replaced. The workers are liberated from the whims and arbitrariness of the capitalists, since henceforth the workers will be set up to control the factories and mills. ”

“Everything living and viable is liberated from the hated shackles,” proclaimed the declaration.

It hardly makes sense to dwell on the obviously utopian idea of ​​the emancipation of soldiers and sailors, who will choose and replace the generals themselves. Already at the beginning of 1918, Sovnarkom began the formation of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army, where elements of Soviet control quickly gave way to more traditional methods.

No less utopian was the concept of workers' control in enterprises. This is not a Bolshevik idea, but rather an anarcho-syndicalist idea, but during the revolution it sounded loudly - “Land to the peasants, factories for the workers, peace to the peoples!”. Moreover, in the future it was confirmed, including in the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia, although it did not fit well with the realities of the life of the young Country of the Soviets.

Lenin had to immediately correct the situation, and workers' control took on too blatant forms in practice. The liberated proletarians expelled the former owners and managers, and then, not having managerial, accounting and engineering experience, brought the enterprises to a close. In a number of cases, workers sold off stocks of raw materials and equipment, distributing the funds they received among themselves — this is how they understood revolutionary justice.

It came to complete absurdity. For example, postal workers united in the Union of Employees introduced workers' control over the Soviet organization, the People's Commissariat of Posts and Telegraphs. The Council of People's Commissars had to abolish the Union of Employees by a separate decree.

In fairness, we note that in many cases, workers' control bodies found a common language with the owners and managers, limited to certain agreements on labor protection. Often, the owners themselves abandoned their enterprises, leaving the workers' organizations no choice.

In fact, the Soviets were confronted with two differently directed but interconnected factors - the initiative of the revolutionary masses "from below" and the actions of the owners from "above." The latter, under the conditions of the revolution, themselves sought to curtail production, quickly sell all that was possible and run away from the rampant revolutionary masses abroad.

The Bolsheviks tried to rally the 27 of November 1917 of the year, by issuing the “Provisions on the working control”, to drive the situation of work control into a reasonable framework. But not too succeeded.

Already 15 December 1917, the Council of People's Commissars issued a Decree on the establishment of the Supreme Council of National Economy (VSNH), according to which the VSNH itself took control of both the workers' control bodies and enterprises left without management. Moreover, he received the right to “confiscation, requisition, sequestration, forced syndication of various industries”, almost literally repeating in his credentials the imperial Special Meetings. At the same time, the Supreme Council of National Economy leaned on structures that had appeared even before the revolution: in the metallurgical industry, on the Rasmeco metal distribution committee, on the textile fabrics and on the central fabrics, and so on.

In order to realize all the destructiveness of the revolutionary freemen and to start building a power vertical, the Bolsheviks took two months.

Self-determination with German help

Following the emancipation of the peasants, soldiers and workers, the “Declaration of Rights ...” proclaimed the emancipation of the peoples of Russia. The Council of People’s Commissars declared that its activities would be guided by the following principles: equality and sovereignty of the peoples of Russia, the right of the peoples of Russia to free self-determination (up to the separation and formation of an independent state), the abolition of all national and national-religious privileges and restrictions, and free development of national minorities and ethnographic groups.

In publicly available sources, one can find allegations that it was from this document that the disintegration of the Russian state began. Thus, Wikipedia reports: “The consequences of this declaration became immediately visible: independent states began to be created throughout the entire Russian Empire. Finland, the Baltic provinces, Ukraine, the Caucasus, and the Cossack regions declared their independence. Soon the Bolsheviks, having lost control over vast territories, were forced to return to a pragmatic policy of re-creating a unitary state. ”

In fact, 27 March, 1917, the Petrograd Soviet issued an appeal to the Polish People, in which he not only recognized the independence of Poland, but also explicitly stated: “Democracy of Russia stands on the basis of recognition of the national-political self-determination of peoples. And the Provisional Government confirmed this statement.

In Ukraine, the Central Council declared itself as the highest legislative body in April 1917, and in June formed the general secretary, its executive body.

Finland declared its independence on 18 on July 1917, when the Sejm passed the “Law on the State”, endowing itself with sovereign power.

More difficult with the Baltics. Vilna province, part of the territory of which is now part of Belarus, and part of it is part of Lithuania, was occupied by Germany in the 1917 year.

In Estonia in the fall of 1917, the RSDLP (B) was the largest party with more than 10 thousand members. Elections to the Constituent Assembly in Estonia gave the Bolsheviks 40,4% votes against 22,5% who supported the national parties.

In the Livonia province, which was under partial German occupation, the elections to the Constituent Assembly in unoccupied territories gave the Bolsheviks 72% votes against 22,9% from bourgeois and nationalist parties. Only the German 18 offensive of February 1918 of the year, which led to the full occupation of the provinces of Courland and Livonia, made it possible to establish anti-Bolshevik "national" governments there.

Such a kind of "self-determination" of the Baltic states had nothing to do with the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia.

The centrifugal tendencies in Russia were provoked not by the Bolsheviks - they received this problem from their predecessors, moreover, in an uptrend. However, they were in a hurry to confirm their commitment to the principle of self-determination of peoples, up to the creation of independent states on Russian lands. Did this accelerate the collapse of the country? Yes and no.

Cossack areas really began to separate after the October Revolution. In Finland, at the same time, there was a civil war between the Finnish communists and the national-bourgeois forces (the latter managed to win, only calling for help the German troops).

Ukraine formally declared independence after October, but the Soviets took over 14 in November. Only six days later, their place was taken by the Central Council, announcing the creation of the UNR - the Ukrainian People’s Republic. The Congress of Soviets held in Kharkov proclaimed the UPR the Republic of Soviets (the Ukrainian People’s Republic of the Soviets) and declared that the authorities of the Central Council were not recognized. In February, the 1918 th Soviets again occupied Kiev, and the 1 of March, the Rada returned to the capital already with German troops.

That is, we have another peculiar case of “self-determination”.

State reassembly

But was there at that time in Russia a political alternative to the Bolshevik principle of self-determination of peoples?

This principle Russian revolutionaries proclaimed since the Decembrists. Herzen and Bakunin paid attention to him. He was included in the programmatic provisions of the Bolshevik, Menshevik, Socialist-Revolutionary parties and even (albeit in a veiled form) into the program of the party of constitutional democrats, the "Cadets." The latter formally talked only about autonomies, but those with which local authorities would have legislative and executive functions and could create their own power structures, which is equivalent to full-fledged statehood.

The principle of self-determination of peoples was professed by all political forces that were active at that time, except for the nascent White movement, which fought for “united and indivisible Russia”, but had neither a solid ideology nor a coherent program.

Moreover, for the Bolsheviks, the national factor was never decisive. As Marxists, they thought in terms of class opposition. And the fundamental factors of national conflicts were economic factors and national competition, interpreting them as relations between exploiters and exploited. The elimination of such relations eliminated the basis for national contradictions: there was nothing for the working people of different countries and different nations to share with each other, they had common interests and a common adversary — imperialistic forces seeking to bring the situation back to normal.

Accordingly, the principal question for the Bolsheviks was the question not of national self-determination, but of the socio-economic system that would arise in a particular territory. The Soviet republics, in their vision, were doomed to an alliance, both because of their common interests and because of the existence of a common enemy. Within such a union, there can be no distrust inherent in bourgeois states.

“Only as a result of such trust can an honest and lasting union of the peoples of Russia be formed. Only as a result of such an alliance can the workers and peasants of the peoples of Russia be braced into one revolutionary force capable of resisting any attempts on the part of the imperialist-annexationist bourgeoisie, ”the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia said.

This document has already laid the scheme for rebuilding the state. Faced with centrifugal tendencies, the Bolsheviks approached them to overcome not head-on, like the White movement, but asymmetrically. Especially since in the processes of the collapse of Russia in 1917 – 1918 there was much more power struggle and considerations of profit than sincere national feelings.

Still, it is rather strange (not to say - paradoxically) to build an independent national state on the bayonets of the German army.
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https://vz.ru/politics/2017/11/15/895230.html
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  1. Basil50
    Basil50 19 November 2017 07: 17 New
    14
    The author will not be forgiven for trying to figure out how the temporary workers tried * to tear apart * the national characteristics of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE.
    About all the destroyed * independence * and * occupation * in all these terribly independent republics, they write and reason in the spirit of the unforgettable Goebels. Yes, and we have champions of * democracy * and advocates of real history
    They will not forgive.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 19 November 2017 08: 09 New
      +8
      Quote: Vasily50
      The author will not be forgiven for trying to figure out how the temporary workers tried * to tear apart * the national characteristics of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE. They will not forgive.
      Well, they will not forgive, so what? and the author will live unforgiven !!! Let him understand further! And he writes. Another thing is that the documents mentioned by the author are few who read and know that gives the opportunity for all kinds of speculative reasoning.
      1. Vend
        Vend 20 November 2017 11: 15 New
        +1
        Quote: Reptiloid
        Quote: Vasily50
        The author will not be forgiven for trying to figure out how the temporary workers tried * to tear apart * the national characteristics of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE. They will not forgive.
        Well, they will not forgive, so what? and the author will live unforgiven !!! Let him understand further! And he writes. Another thing is that the documents mentioned by the author are few who read and know that gives the opportunity for all kinds of speculative reasoning.

        Yes, the point is not that few have read the documents. The fact is that when you start to publish these documents, they begin to accuse of lies and liberalism. hi
    2. dSK
      dSK 19 November 2017 14: 24 New
      +4
      Hello Dmitry!
      Quote: Vasily50
      About all the destroyed * independence * and * occupation * in all these independent republics, they write and discuss in the spirit of the unforgettable Goebels. Yes, and we have champions of * democracy * and advocates of real history.

      In ancient times, different peoples lived on the territory of Russia - Sarmatians, Huns, Finns, Scythians, Drevlyans ... Idolater Prince Vladimir, he understood that countries professing monotheistic religions were beginning to dominate in the world. He chose a strategy for the spiritual development of his people long and carefully, preachers came to him - Catholics, Muslims, Jews. In the end, as history has shown, he made the right choice. The Golden Horde burned Kiev, burned the new capital of Moscow four times. But Orthodoxy, like all of Christianity, developed and strengthened. Now the place where the capital of the Golden Horde was, only archaeologists know. In the "troubled times" the Poles, then Napoleon burned Moscow, Hitler did not succeed. Without its creator and creator of the Lord God, man is an orphan. Jesus Christ: "I am with you and no one at you." hi
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 19 November 2017 14: 29 New
        +7
        It was very interesting if you hadn’t written so many platitudes. Most of your commentary is information from the history textbook for the 4 class. Respect, at least a little, a little interlocutor, write, at least, your thoughts.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 19 November 2017 15: 29 New
          +8
          [i] if you hadn’t written so many platitudes. Most of your commentary is information from a history textbook for 4th grade. This is the ceiling of his consciousness ... a parish education about all the beauty ...
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 20 November 2017 06: 33 New
            +3
            parish education about all the beauty ...

            Obscurantist-Black Hundred, this formation. The "new" trend in the ideology (which, as you know, is not) of our secular state. It is noted that if the economy is getting really bad, then the government is sharply “right” to the level of extremism. And what kind of person is this is another question. It is possible and parish. Read it, how it about masons with pleasure expounds.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 20 November 2017 07: 12 New
              +3
              had the dubious pleasure of reading his little crib .... giant of thought .. sorry thought is schizoid ..
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 20 November 2017 07: 33 New
                +5
                It is said that Nietzsche was a schizoid, if not deeper, but nevertheless left very interesting thoughts. Mr. gentleman, the usual relay of Black Hundred ideas. Already precisely them, and not even monarchical. Moreover, it is a repeater, because it is seen. that he pours them out without thinking. Taking into account the statements “our everything” on the opening of the “wall of sorrow” and the monument to Alexander III, we are having fun times.
                ps As you know, history does not teach anyone anything. At the beginning of the century, the “Russian People’s Union named after Michael the Archangel” was created and after 8 years the monarchy fell. Now time is running faster. The same rake, no?
                1. long in stock.
                  long in stock. 20 November 2017 07: 47 New
                  +3
                  everything can be. the number of destructive elements is increasing. and this usually leads to a slaughter ....
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 20 November 2017 07: 54 New
                    +5
                    Yes, besides, we are also being told about the 1909 year in the Republic of Ingushetia about an unprecedented economic recovery, as now, almost. Inflation is declining, GDP is growing, Chubais “impressed” everyone with achievements in nano-technologies. Soon we will live, as in America, only better. But one thing bothers. If everything is so good, then why raise an ideological wave? Communists, because if everything is fine with us, they themselves will die in speed. Riddles in the dark. winked
              2. dSK
                dSK 22 November 2017 08: 04 New
                +1
                Hello Vladimir! "For even the Jews demand miracles, and the Greeks seek wisdom; and we preach Christ crucified, for the Jews a temptation, and for the Greeks insanity, for the called themselves, Jews and Greeks, Christ, God's power and God's wisdom; because God's wise man is wiser than man, and God's weak man is stronger than man. "First Epistle to the Corinthians of the Holy Apostle Paul 1: 22-25)
    3. Basil50
      Basil50 19 November 2017 15: 49 New
      +5
      board
      As much as the church has spoiled, no one will ever be able to spoil.
      The most revealing in this respect is the claim of the churchmen for writing. Knowing about Cyril and Methodius absolutely everything, from their own writings, the church continues to lay claim to writing and * inspiration * RUSI.
      The Church shoved the Romanovs onto the throne and became the state religion. And who of the believers knows when the Inquisition in the Russian Empire was canceled? And how many church prisons were there in 1916? And how many prisoners were in these prisons? And who in these prisons flogged prisoners?
      1. Normal ok
        Normal ok 19 November 2017 20: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: Vasily50
        As much as the church has spoiled, no one will ever be able to spoil.

        The problem is not in the church at all, but in the STATE CHURCH. As soon as this or that group of people approaches power (whether it be a church or the CPSU, anyway), it quickly forgets about the ideas that gave it the opportunity to come there and begins to “steer” in its favor. When the church is separated from the state (actually separated and not like the Russian Orthodox Church), then it is only one of many social institutions of society and normally performs its function.
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 20 November 2017 05: 04 New
        +3
        There is an Intelligence Question with Goblin and Zhukov about the attitude of the Church to the Provisional Government. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the exact name.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 November 2017 07: 21 New
    14
    Exactly 100 years ago, the Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia was published, signed by Lenin and Stalin. The main claim to this document is that it became the groundwork for the collapse of historical Russia, because it indulged the separatists and relied on a revolutionary utopia. But is it really?

    Of course it is!
    The Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia is one of those documents of the Council of People's Commissars signed by Lenin and Stalin (at that time - People's Commissar for Nationalities of the RSFSR), which are now practically forgotten. А зря.

    Who wants to remember their crimes and mistakes?
    Thanks to the indulgence of the nationalists, in a naive attempt to make them allies, the original RUSSIAN cities of Odessa, the cradle of the Russian fleet Nikolaev, Kherson, Kharkov and many others, were against the will of the so-called Ukraine and other republics .. "Russian scoundrels" (from the transcript of the congress of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks) were cut and evicted from their lands and villages, and the lands were transferred to the red "dying" highlanders. And then for 70 years Russia ruthlessly plundered in favor of the national republics.
    And today's Donbass echo of that crime.
    1. timyr
      timyr 19 November 2017 07: 58 New
      12
      As always, Bulkohrust Olgovich confuses cause and effect.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 November 2017 10: 15 New
        12
        Quote: timyr
        As always, Bulkohrust Olgovich confuses cause and effect.

        Peskohrusty, as always, do not want to see the truth, a betrayal of the interests of the Russian people.
        You tell me directly: Novorossia, Donbass is Ukraine or Russia?
        For me, this is Russia. And you, for sure, keep silent, in a sand-crust manner.
        That's the whole story. lol
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 19 November 2017 10: 24 New
          +8
          Quote: Olgovich
          For me, this is Russia.

          Exactly? Your all actions, boulder-crunch, say the opposite.
          And this is for your snack.
          Even heroic officers such as General A. A. Brusilov served in the Red Army, and in 1921 General Y. A. Slashchov-Krymsky, who transferred from the White Army. He explained his departure from the White Army to P. N. Wrangel in protest against leaders such as Prince V. A. Obolensky, an influential freemason, a member of his few Supreme Council.
          For whose interests the White Army fought, it is clear from the title of the article by Y. A. Slashchov, "Slogans of Russian patriotism in the service of France." This clever man, the hero changed his mind a lot and had grounds to declare the White Army serving the interests of other countries, and not the interests of Russia, with one title of the article. Kolchakovsky General A.P. Budberg wrote on September 1, 1919: "... Now for us whites, a guerrilla war is unthinkable, because the population is not for us, but against us."
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 November 2017 11: 25 New
            +8
            Quote: badens1111
            face-to-face? Your all actions, boulder-crunch, say the opposite.

            comrade Baden, this is not my actions, but of your Bolsheviks, by betraying the Russian state and people, by transferring the so-called RUSSIAN NEW RUSSIA Ukraine.
            By the way, you have the same question: is Novorossia Russia or Ukraine? Just answer WITHOUT slipping and evading, in monosyllables: Russia / Ukraine-EVERYTHING !.
            Silence too? lol
            1. Varyag_0711
              Varyag_0711 19 November 2017 11: 51 New
              18
              Olgovich, you again have been rolled out 100500 times by face on the table, but you are trying to argue with obvious facts with the tenacity of a famous animal worthy of a better application.
              Yes, New Russia is Russia! Yes, Lenin made a mistake by cutting these territories to Ukraine, and so what? My hometown, once upon a time, was part of the Donetsk-Kryvyi Rih Republic, and I am horrified to imagine what would happen to us now if we were part of Ukraine.
              For me personally, the concept of Ukrainians and Ukrainians are signs of the disease, since both Ukrainians and the very concept of Ukrainians are invented concepts that never exist in history.
              But, it turned out the way it happened and not you, an inveterate Russophobe, talk about the activities of Lenin or Stalin.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 19 November 2017 12: 11 New
                +9
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Olgovich, you again have been rolled out 100500 times by face on the table, but you are trying to argue with obvious facts with the tenacity of a famous animal worthy of a better application.

                Well, "rolled out", and I didn’t even notice ... request
                I have cited facts of betrayal of the interests of the Russian people. You challenge them
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                with tenacity famous
                lol
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                Yes, New Russia is Russia! Yes, Lenin made a mistake by cutting these territories to Ukraine, and so what?

                Not a mistake, but a crime, and a SYSTEM crime: the same story with northern Kazakhstan, Bessarabia, the North Caucasus.
                ANSWER FOR THIS - do not want to?
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                For me personally, the concept of Ukrainians and Ukrainians are signs of the disease, since both Ukrainians and the very concept of Ukrainians are invented concepts that never exist in history.

                Similarly. But it was YOURS who invited the ukronacist Grushevsky and tens of thousands of his comrades-in-arms from Austria, Hungary, and Poland for the Ukrainization-transformation of Russians into non-Russians. Forgot? I remember!
                Quote: Varyag_0711
                But, it turned out the way it happened and not you, an inveterate Russophobe, talk about the activities of Lenin or Stalin.

                Do you have a license for "patriotism"? Not? Then it is not for you, Russophobe, to judge this. hi
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 19 November 2017 13: 58 New
                  +6
                  Olgovich, they called you Russophobe, that’s understandable, but, in response, can you think of something else? What, do you repeat other people's words? You, a literate person and a connoisseur of Russian literature, really can’t come up with your own? Ah, then, Russophobe, himself, Russophobe. There is only one laugh. Moreover, Vlad is absolutely right in the definition, and you not only persevere, but your argument, which is absolutely false, is languidly argued. You cannot even give antonyms in response.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 19 November 2017 14: 24 New
                    +5
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Olgovich, they called you Russophobe, it’s understandable, but, in response to this, you can’t come up with something else? What, do you repeat other people's words? You, a literate person and a connoisseur of Russian literature, really can’t come up with your own?

                    Can not.
                    The framework of anti-Soviet Russophobia, and those who are mired in anti-Soviet inevitably and Russophobia, cannot exist outside of their thoroughly treacherous and directly Russophobic ideology.
                    Therefore, they are speaking as he is speaking, including through gritted teeth his recognition of the Victory, the Victory which happened contrary to his ideological constructions.
                    He and General Slashchev-Krymsky, a brilliant general of the White Army, did not have a decree, he and the other general who led the Kornilov division, Skoblin was not a decree, and after all these people, having not accepted the Soviets, fighting against them and competently fighting, nevertheless came to the realization that no matter how you perceive the existing power at that time in Russia, but this is the homeland of which they serve, and do not stand in the row of bastards who fight against it in the form of Shkuro and Krasnov, in a foreign army and in the interests of others, others like them.
                    So Russophobia Olgovich, clear and understandable.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 19 November 2017 14: 37 New
                      +5
                      We, yes, understand, but I wonder if he understands it or not? Most likely not, if not sitting on the training manual.
                      1. Curious
                        Curious 19 November 2017 16: 17 New
                        +8
                        Yes there are no manuals there. The death of neurons is the main reason. Remember the Soviet film "Twelfth Night" based on the play of the same name by Shakespeare.
                        Butler Malvolo (Merkuryev) to Countess Olivia: "Old age decays an intelligent person, and du..r..ak, he improves in his stupidity by old age."
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 10: 11 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        We, yes, understand, but I wonder if he understands it or not? Most likely not, if not sitting on the training manual.


                        Comrade Avva, you are given the FACTS of betraying the interests of the Russian people by your idols, the fruits of which we are reaping today.
                        In response, only an empty CLAIR about .... drug addict and alcoholic Slaschev belay request
                    2. Monarchist
                      Monarchist 20 November 2017 17: 15 New
                      +3
                      Badens, I do not want to defend Olgovich (I do not always agree with him), but even annoys me when I put an equal eye on anti-Soviet views and Russophobia. This belittles our history! Indeed, long before socialism, RUSSIA existed. Even STALIN in 1945 raised a toast not for the triumph of socialism, but for the RUSSIAN PEOPLE, and on November 7, 1941 he did not crackle about socialism, but remembered the figures of RUSSIAN HISTORY! My opinion: the Soviet period, albeit noticeable, but only a chapter in the MILLENNIUM HISTORY OF RUSSIA!
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 20 November 2017 17: 30 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Monarchist
                        it annoys even enrages, when between the anti-Soviet views and Russophobia put a zara of equality.

                        And why does it annoy you when the equal sign between them is absolutely logical?
                        You want to say that the Red Prolette denies the achievements of Russia as a whole? And where then the orders of Nevsky and Ushakov, Nakhimov and Suvorov?
                        You want to say that it would be better to agree with the talkers from the temporary ones in February 17 and get the country even then cut to pieces? Well, the heirs of those Februaryists, in 90, showed what it was.
                        Quote: Monarchist
                        November 7 1941

                        Do not la la, the Parade was in commemoration of the October Revolution. And this did not deny the appeal, "the faces of your ancestors look at you ... Nakhimov and Suvorov .."
                        Quote: Monarchist
                        the Soviet period, albeit noticeable, but only a chapter in the MILLENNIUM HISTORY OF RUSSIA!

                        What you ... this EPOCH, ZENITH of the power of Russian civilization. There is no comparable in 1000 year history.
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 November 2017 07: 52 New
                    +6
                    Quote: avva2012


                    Quote: avva2012
                    Olgovich, they called you Russophobe, it’s understandable, but, in response to this, you can’t come up with something else? What, do you repeat other people's words? You, a literate person and a connoisseur of Russian literature, really can’t come up with your own? Ah, then, Russophobe, himself, Russophobe. There is only one laugh. Especially, Vlad, is absolutely right in determining and you not only persevere, but your argument, absolutely false, is sluggishly argued. You cannot even give antonyms in response.

                    1.Vladikavkaz-did not say anything. What are you about? belay
                    2. A false point of view is what do you mean?
                    3. Why should I look for antonyms for Russophobe? "You want to say synonyms? And synonyms are not for VO.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 20 November 2017 08: 00 New
                      +5
                      Nothing, nothing? And who is Vladikavkaz?
                      What you write is an absolute false, anti-people point of view.
                      Because if, in fact of your beliefs, you are a Russophobe, then the opposing views just deserve the antonym, don't you?
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 20 November 2017 08: 44 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Nothing, nothing? And who is Vladikavkaz ??

                        Who it? I don’t know why VLADIKAVKAZ is so often remembered. I remember him well. They finally banned him about 2 years ago. But, in my opinion, there were bans and lows. A man of great knowledge, but quick-tempered, had his own pronounced style, wrote that he knew without thinking about the form. It is interesting that Olgovich was not here at all then. Or was it called differently then? ALEXANDER WITH
                        Vladikavkaz cursed, like. ??????. And now what? Like like a spell in Moldavian? Like like "come out of Satan" "? But, I think that Doctor Vladikavkaz would have supported him if he had come. What to remember about him?
                        But it is interesting that when Olgovich came, for some time the Russophobe ALEXANDER still had some time, ~~ maybe a month, and then he disappeared himself, sort of. Changing of the Guard?
                      2. avva2012
                        avva2012 20 November 2017 09: 11 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Reptiloid But it is interesting that when Olgovich came, for some time the Russophobe ALEXANDER still had some time, ~~ maybe a month, and then he disappeared himself, sort of. Changing of the Guard?

                        I answer my comment. because, again, the computer began to send to the end of the branch.
                        I think everything is simple, this is a nickname change. Perhaps the same person registered under different names. Example: "Nizhny Novgorod-top". Further, apparently, out of fear that it might be revealed and banned, he decided to switch to the same name. In my opinion, it is difficult to explain such anger by anything other than a memory of experienced emotions. Vlad simply reminds “Aleksander-Olgovich” in his manner of “Vladikavkaz”. request
                      3. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 10: 25 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Nothing, nothing? And who is Vladikavkaz?

                        Nothing. Slashchev is the national question? lol Vlad-Vladikavkaz, in my opinion. Although not important.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        What you write is an absolute false, anti-people point of view

                        Do you have a license for a true and popular point of view? belay Your popular assessment-the collapse of the Communists in the last election
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Because if, in fact of your beliefs, you are a Russophobe, then the opposing views just deserve the antonym, don't you?

                        Your assumption of “if” is just rubbish, so my opposite views are Russophobia of pure water, synonyms of something not for open press. hi
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 13: 00 New
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        In my opinion, it is difficult to explain such anger by anything other than a memory of experienced emotions. Vlad, just reminds “Aleksander-Olgovich” with his manner of “Vladikavkaz”
                        Well, you, everything is much simpler: Comrade. Vladikavkaz (Vlad) once declared that the peasants in the Volga region were starving to death in 1921 because they EATED TOO MUCH in the 1920s! belay
                        SUCH, do you forget?
                        ps what do you see anger? request
                        funny ignoramus and anger towards him-incompatible concepts request
                      5. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 20 November 2017 15: 58 New
                        +2
                        Yes, a little man cries in an apartment in St. Petersburg which supposedly, as he thinks, should belong to him ... but the revolutionary sailors had a different opinion ... that’s his whole ideology. It hangs noodles ..
                    2. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 20 November 2017 09: 39 New
                      +4
                      I strongly disagree that the style of VLADIKAVKAZ can be equated in general to anyone! There were no such emotional people here. And these emotions cannot be simulated or hidden. And age ---- he is older than badens 1111 years old by 15-20. What about the names? How many Sergeyev, Dmitriev, Evgeniev are there? No wonder the name Vlad is repeated. And what does Olgovich recall if he did not argue with him? I do not believe in such traumatic memories. !!!!!
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 20 November 2017 12: 28 New
                        +2
                        AAAAA-HA-HA !!!!!! HOW can I recall Vladikavkaz, if already 2 years ago a large, almost all, part of his comments was deleted !!!!!!!. They are left ---- count on the fingers !!! The lie of olgovich, purest water, about the equality of Vladikavkaz with
                        badens 1111! Moldavian ruler betrayed himself with his head! There are no arguments! And if not important, then why fantasy?
                        Well, if it’s a lie to frighten the opponent !, then what happens to us all !! That about long-standing events to lie ---- finally easy !!!!!!
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 20 November 2017 10: 33 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Olgovich Do you have a license for a true and popular point of view?

                      Yes. Rather, it’s not with me personally, but with the ideology that I adhere to.
                      Next, you are already repeating (see answer above).
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 10: 47 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Yes. Rather, it’s not with me personally, but with the ideology that I adhere to

                        No, neither you, nor your ideology, which has been thoroughly isolating itself, is not. Examples of the most disgusting hypocritical lie with hunger are given to you earlier.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Next, you are already repeating (see answer above).

                        No, I do not repeat (see above).
                2. ty60
                  ty60 19 November 2017 15: 04 New
                  +4
                  I will add from myself, with the Ural region, given to Kazakhstan in December 1936
                3. avva2012
                  avva2012 20 November 2017 10: 18 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich Comrade Avva, you are given the FACTS of betraying the interests of the Russian people by your idols, the fruits of which we are reaping today.

                  The fabrications of various kinds of anti-advisers are not facts. Pulling proposals out of context, obvious fraud, or even a direct lie, are all your ideological colleagues have at their disposal, such as Vlasov, Bukovsky, Solzhenitsyn and a legion of others, of different freshness and shabbiness, to subvert capital.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 November 2017 10: 55 New
                    +4
                    Quote: avva2012
                    The fabrications of various kinds of anti-advisers are not facts. Pulling proposals out of context, obvious fraud, or even a direct lie, are all your ideological colleagues have at their disposal, such as Vlasov, Bukovsky, Solzhenitsyn and a legion of others, of different freshness and shabbiness, to subvert capital.


                    Empty TRACKNESS in response to the given FACTS of gifts of Russian lands and people to nationals- "Like a bag of potatoes (C) .. Give examples of" fabrications ".
                    By the way, you have a question: Donbass, Novorossia is Russia or Ukraine?
                    Start dodging lol
                  2. badens1111
                    badens1111 20 November 2017 10: 59 New
                    +1
                    Quote: avva2012
                    The fabrications of various kinds of anti-advisers are not facts.

                    Yes, but here is an indicator of what Russophobic, anti-Soviet propaganda is doing with young and low-reading young men.
                    The boy Kolya Desyatnichenko visited the burial of Nazi prisoners of war, and "deeply upset" because he saw "the graves of innocent people who were dead, many of whom wanted to live peacefully and did not want to fight."

                    It reminded me of an old Soviet joke (or caricature). Hitler in early May 1945, in a bunker, tells his adjutant:
                    - God is a witness, I did not want this war.
                    “Yes, my Fuhrer, we wanted a completely different war.”

                    I am interested in a lot of questions in this story. For example, why was there no speech by any British or American boy who would tell about the difficult fate of German prisoners of war in the western zone of occupation in the "Eisenhower death camps"? Https: //jpgazeta.ru/aleksandr-rodzhe
                    rs-kak-malchik-kolya-kayalsya-pered-bundestagom /
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 20 November 2017 12: 10 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Think, and then Comrade. Avva and comrade the balance has already "broken" on it! SILENT!
                      Have forgotten how to read?
                      badens1111 7 Yesterday, 12:07 PM ↑
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Silence too?
                      Lord .. what a loser you are and stubborn in hatred ..
                      I read and DO NOT SEE (except provocations of swearing) the answer to the DIRECT question:
                      Is Novorossia Russia or Ukraine?
                      THIRD TIME I ASK! lol Do not evade! am
                  3. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 20 November 2017 11: 02 New
                    +2
                    Quote: avva2012
                    jerking proposals out of context, obvious fraud, or even a direct lie, all that your ideological colleagues have at their disposal, such as Vlasov, Bukovsky, Solzhenitsyn and a legion of others, of different freshness and shabbiness, subverting capital.
                    Eeee no, they have, or, had carefully concealed vices. THAT'S WHAT!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 20 November 2017 11: 44 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Reptiloid
                      Eeee no, they have, or, had carefully concealed vices. THAT'S WHAT!

                      By the way, to you, comrade Reptiloid, the simplest question: New Russia, Donbass is Russia or Ukraine?
                      Think, and then Comrade. Avva and comrade the balance has already "broken" on it! SILENT! lol
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 20 November 2017 11: 58 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Think, and then Comrade. Avva and comrade the balance has already "broken" on it! SILENT!

                        Have forgotten how to read?
                        badens1111 7 Yesterday, 12:07 PM ↑
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Silence too?
                        Lord ... what a loser you are and stubborn in hatred ...
                        RUSSIA, this is all the geopolitical space from the banks of the Danube, the Prut, the Desna, the Baltic coasts to the Far East, from the Polar region, to Adzharia. BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR RUSSIA, yours, this is the stub that you left in 90, you and you like talkers are guilty of that sweat and blood of generations of Russians, you, let the dog down the drain ..
                      2. avva2012
                        avva2012 20 November 2017 12: 40 New
                        +2
                        It’s ridiculous. Well, at least something is good with you. And then living with such a head is sad. And what, you received a new test from the center? If so, then some kind of do. hellish, he. Our Motherland, in which the USSR was and will be, the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. And what formed in the temporarily occupied territory is not Ukraine.
                      3. avva2012
                        avva2012 20 November 2017 15: 11 New
                        +1
                        Olgovich, you honestly did not answer, who are you? Instead, again, a set of words about the fact that someone was destroying someone. Again about the national question. Olgovich, are you a fascist? Judging by what you write, yes. Then it turns out that from the tingling of the disadvantages.
                        Yes, I’m asking you, for the second time, according to the article, topic of discussion, is there anything? Or will you be pouring it from empty to empty, and slandering the people's / Soviet power?
                  4. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 November 2017 13: 15 New
                    +5
                    Quote: avva2012
                    . Our Motherland, in which the USSR was and will be, the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. And what formed in the temporarily occupied territory is not Ukraine

                    Not Ukraine. and then what? And where did she-from Mars fall? Or from the Ukrainian SSR?
                    Where all the national animals grew up and were brought up - all these 100% of Ukrainian artists, artists and all Kravchuk, Kuchma. powders, yaroshi and others, huh?
                    Who hammered that Ukrainians are non-Russians?
                    PS I do not hear the answer: Novorossiya-Russia or Ukraine?
                    Keep quiet That's it. The mouse knows whose meat ...
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 20 November 2017 13: 56 New
                      +2
                      And where has it grown, such as Olgovich? In the same place. Apparently, from the shortcomings that remained due to the humanism of Soviet power. It was believed that it was possible to re-educate, that they would understand and accept the people's power, repent. This did not work out. Well, for future science.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 14: 43 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And where has grown, such as Olgovich? In the same place. Apparently, from the shortcomings that remained due to the humanism of the Soviet government. .

                        He grew up in Russia, in Russia, which you destroyed during 70 years. "Negatives" is you regret that you did not finish off all the Russians? But succeeded, since 1964, where the Russian people are dying under the leadership of the "humanists"
                        Quote: avva2012
                        It was believed that it was possible to re-educate, that they would understand and accept popular power, repent

                        1. Yes, you have never been able to count: how nationalists have used you! And how did you dance around them, carved rings! And you, um, yes.
                        2. About the people's power you have NO right, comrade, to say, NOBODY, NEVER elected you, you were afraid of the election of the people, like a devil
                        3. Repent ?! fool lol Falling! belay !
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Well, for future science.

                        Well, well: what is your future ..... lol laughing love
                4. avva2012
                  avva2012 20 November 2017 11: 23 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich Examples of the most disgusting hypocritical lie with hunger are given to you earlier.

                  Well, let's say, not examples, but an example. This is firstly, and secondly, as they say, you know less, sleep better. Mention of hunger in both the 20's and the 30's was in school textbooks. You probably skipped the lessons, since for you, this is news.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 November 2017 11: 42 New
                    +5
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Well, let's say, not examples, but an example. This is firstly, and secondly, as they say, you know less, sleep better. .

                    Then you better sleep than write! yes Examples, not an example: the same thing happened with the "nonexistent" famine of 1947, 35, 25, etc.
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Mention of hunger in both the 20s and 30s was in school textbooks. You probably skipped the lessons, since for you, this is news.

                    Do not be ashamed SO to get into trouble, all the time? In everything. what concern-hunger, Suzdal, etc.?
                    WHAT textbook about hunger 33 g ?! If the FIRST time it is officially mentioned in the 1st end of the 1980s ?! fool
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 20 November 2017 12: 01 New
                      +2
                      Olgovich, in a school textbook on hunger in the city of Suzdal, etc., should have written a separate chapter? And the fact that you first mentioned the hunger of the 30's, at the end of the 80's, where did you get this from? When did you analyze school books? At the end of the same 80's or in November 2017's?
                      You, Olgovich, have flown all the odorous “facts” on a low-level flight, or did someone blow your ears? Something, I'm leaning on the last option. In addition, if you are sad about one thing, it’s hard for you to believe in everything else. So far, you just imagined all the anti-Soviet rubbish that exists, up to pulling out of the context, Leninist speeches. So, I do not agree, I’m with Vladimir Nikolayevich about a neural disaster, yet your condition is called differently.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 12: 21 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Olgovich, in a school textbook on hunger in the city of Suzdal, etc., should have written a separate chapter?

                        "hunger", "Suzdal" -through the comma written
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And the fact that you first mentioned the hunger of the 30s, in the late 80s, where did you get this from? When did you analyze school books? At the end of the same 80s or in November 2017?

                        Kindergarten, right! READ any article about it! Yourself!
                        Quote: avva2012
                        You, Olgovich, have flown over all the odorous "facts" on a low-level flight, or did someone blow your ears? Something, I'm leaning on the last option. In addition, having been sad about one thing, it’s hard for you to believe in everything else. So far, you just imagined all the anti-Soviet rubbish that exists, up to pulling out of the context, Leninist speeches.

                        Chatter, again empty chatter, comrade Avva! Would you refute the FACTS, huh?
                        Quote: avva2012
                        So, I do not agree, I’m with Vladimir Nikolayevich about a neural disaster, yet your condition is called differently.

                        What kind of beast is this? request request
                      2. long in stock.
                        long in stock. 20 November 2017 16: 13 New
                        +1
                        Anyone who wants to understand who such olgovich type in YouTube is motherhood. I can’t attach there abnormal vocabulary .. I’ll understand everything right away.
                    2. badens1111
                      badens1111 20 November 2017 12: 02 New
                      +1
                      I put you a plus sign .. I’m not sorry., But here you look truly sorry when you try once again to pile a whole mountain of lies.
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Do not be ashamed SO to get into trouble, all the time?

                      Are you talking about yourself? A Freudian clause .. whoever and wherever he is worried about that ...
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 12: 25 New
                        +3
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Is that about you ?.

                        Comrade., To the Russian language textbook for 2nd grade, subject: facial verbs.
                        And then you will save us and yourself from a sore point yes
                    3. avva2012
                      avva2012 20 November 2017 12: 52 New
                      +1
                      What kind of beast? Right, Olgovich, but I suppose I was mistaken, instead of Victor, I wrote, Vladimir, but about neurons you should be interested. Or no longer late?
                      If, you, noticed, then I do not argue with you. It makes no sense. What you consider to be facts is a set of anti-Soviet, which you, as usual, are repeating. You yourself, links do not read other users, reasonedly, do not try to answer. So, your emoticons, you put yourself.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 20 November 2017 13: 25 New
                        +4
                        Quote: avva2012
                        What kind of beast? Right, Olgovich, but I suppose I was mistaken, instead of Victor, I wrote, Vladimir, but about neurons you should be interested. Or no longer late?

                        What Victor, what Vladimir Nikolayoche-unknown to me. What are the neurons? request I do not understand.....
                        Quote: avva2012
                        If, you, noticed, then I do not argue with you. It makes no sense.

                        You can’t, alas.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        What you consider to be facts is a set of anti-Soviet, which you, as usual, are repeating.

                        Facts are neither anti-Soviet, nor pro-Soviet, nor odorous, nor sweet-smelling. This is an objectively existing reality. which you strongly dislike, but she doesn’t care.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Themselves, you, the links do not read other users, reasoned, not trying to answer. So, your emoticons, you put yourself.

                        You gave the only link to istmath, a site that I showed you. All.
                        You cannot override my arguments with arguments.
                        From you, only epithets that are in no way arguments. request
                      2. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 20 November 2017 13: 40 New
                        +2
                        As I wrote above, there is a lie and slander to what many of us saw here ourselves, and even lying about old things is not surprising! It’s difficult to search for comments from Vladikavkaz, but it’s necessary. When there will be time, then. Although it is interesting to look at Alexander’s comments. Maybe ===== succeed?
                    4. avva2012
                      avva2012 20 November 2017 14: 28 New
                      +2
                      What are the neurons? I do not understand.....
                      The process has gone far. Neurons are brain cells that "die." And facts are bad smelling if they are false. That is, the information so submitted that the real facts are either distorted or an absolute lie is presented as fact. And in the first case, and in the second, you are out of competition. Yes, the topic of the article, still remember?
                      "The document already laid down a scheme for reassembling the state. Faced with centrifugal tendencies, the Bolsheviks approached them not in the face, like the White movement, but asymmetrically. Moreover, in the decay of Russia in the 1917-1918 years there was much more power struggle and considerations of benefit than sincere national feelings. "
                      Olgovich, at least once in your life, tell me honestly, are you a descendant of those who have been deprived of everything honestly acquired by back-breaking labor, or are you on a salary?
                      1. Reptiloid
                        Reptiloid 20 November 2017 18: 07 New
                        +1
                        I hardly found the comments of VLADIKAVKAZ! They are now almost everything! And then before there were many pages without comments, deletion labels!
                        I read some! Absolutely not like the way our current like-minded person writes --- Vlad! Sorry we can not use the cons now! In general, it’s interesting to read what we were all different 2 years ago. But many do not appear!
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 November 2017 11: 05 New
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        The process has gone far. Neurons are brain cells that "die."

                        Neurons are "electrically excitable cells." AND? Do you have problems with them? What do you remember them all the time? request
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And facts are bad smelling if they are false.
                        Once again: facts are NOT false. They are either there or they are not. Lies, fabrications are NON-Facts
                        Quote: avva2012
                        That is, the information so submitted that the real facts are either distorted or an absolute lie is presented as fact. And in the first case, and in the second, you, out of competition

                        You refute, refute, or just one idle talk, sorry, in response to my FACTS.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Yes, the topic of the article, still remember?

                        I remember very well -An issue, which I am discussing, (unlike you).
                        Quote: avva2012
                        "The document already laid down a scheme for reassembling the state. Faced with centrifugal tendencies, the Bolsheviks approached them not in the face, like the White movement, but asymmetrically. Moreover, in the decay of Russia in the 1917-1918 years there was much more power struggle and considerations of benefit than sincere national feelings. "

                        "Asymmetrically" gathered a bomb and sat on it, conjuring it not to explode fool
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Olgovich, at least once in your life, tell me honestly, are you a descendant of those who have been deprived of everything honestly acquired by back-breaking labor, or are you on a salary?

                        And in Russian ? belay What does it mean: "Are you a descendant or on a salary?"
                        I am a descendant of the amazing Russian peasants, officer, teacher. AND?

                        PS THIRD TIME I ask: Is New Russia Russia or Ukraine? Do not answer THIRD times? lol
                    5. avva2012
                      avva2012 21 November 2017 11: 37 New
                      +1
                      Neurons are "electrically excitable cells."

                      Really? Is this their main definition according to Olgovich? Now, you see, this is an indicator of how you correctly work with information. There are no problems, after all, found in Google, what kind of beast, entot neuron.
                      I am a descendant of the amazing Russian peasants, officer, teacher. AND?

                      They would be amazed, by golly, upon learning of such a marvelous descendant.
                      "Asymmetrically" gathered a bomb and sat on it, conjuring it not to explode

                      Fine! Why collect the bomb? If, you, do not own the logic, then this does not mean that for others, this science is not available. Unlike your amazing ancestors, whose presence is not known for certain, among the Bolsheviks who came to power, there were nobles, intellectuals, highly professional workers, seminaries wink who knew not only formal logic, but also dialectical.
                      ps what, you pester, like a bath sheet with Ukraine and New Russia, I already answered, in one of my comments about the USSR.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 21 November 2017 11: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Really? Is this their main definition according to Olgovich? Now, you see, this is an indicator of how you correctly work with information. There are no problems, after all, found in Google, what kind of beast, entot neuron.

                        What did you stick with these neurons? belay The article is not about them! Problems?
                        Quote: avva2012
                        They would be amazed, by golly, upon learning of such a marvelous descendant.

                        They knew, but what about ?! And they were quite happy. The article is not about that, by the way.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Why collect the bomb? If, you, do not own logic, then this does not mean that for others, this science is not available. Unlike your amazing ancestors, whose presence is not known for certain, among the Bolsheviks who came to power, there were nobles, intellectuals, highly professional workers, seminarians who knew not only formal logic, but also dialectic.

                        Why have you collected it? Weird question! And WHAT could they collect anywhere, never, by anyone who did not work, too old parasites and lobotryas? They did not know how! Based on inability and collected IT. You read the biographies of ALL members of the Council of People's Commissars of October 26, you do not know them! They never worked, neither experience nor skills. Management I-read. And where did their wild violence come from? from there it is the same simple and obvious action: to take, force, shoot. No brains here
                        You wouldn’t dare give them a courtyard toilet to build, not like the state. "state and revolution" (09.1917) Ilica-read! With this nonsense, he tried to build a state!
                        Quote: avva2012
                        ps what, you pester, like a bath sheet with Ukraine and New Russia, I already answered, in one of my comments about the USSR.

                        You are on a DIRECT question, answer! Without a cuddle!
                        NOBODY (except for the Varangian) of you-did NOT answer!
                        That ...
                    6. avva2012
                      avva2012 22 November 2017 07: 09 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Olgovich They did not know how! Based on inability and collected IT. You read the biographies of ALL SNK members from October 26, but you do not know them!

                      Olgovich, you, however, read the textbook of logic, there are a few basic principles.
                      If they didn’t know anything, how was the second world economy built and the war won? Moreover, the whole of Europe, as such. War is primarily an economy. As the German soldiers in WWI were not brave, as the Teutonic scientific genius did not shine, but crushed Germany, first of all, economically.
                      And into space, Gagarin, flew from a trampoline. I understand that your head does not fit, apparently, the amount of how much industrial production was used to build a rocket, spacesuit, computer center to calculate the flight path, but this is your problem, not THEM. THEY started by saying that it didn’t shine economically anyway, but they also made a reserve for the development of the country. I understand that you may personally hate the Communists, but what is the country for? You also dare to call yourself a Russian, a disgrace.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 November 2017 09: 43 New
                        +1
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Olgovich, you, however, read the textbook of logic, there are a few basic principles.

                        You read what you are asked to understand the logic of what happened.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        If, they did not know how, then how was the second world economy built

                        It’s the same as the construction of the mentioned building by unskilled “superintendents”: attempts to do this or that, with inconceivable victims (from collapses), savage costs, searching for the guilty among innocent performers, with the mutual annihilation of “and gnawing of rabbi dogs”.
                        As a result, they built what is already ..... was reached 40 years ago (CSB report 1955)! And those who, without their demand, "benefited", as a result of construction, have been dying since 1964. And the construction - everything is equal - collapsed (flimsy foundation)
                        As for the release of cast iron, it is tasteless, uncomfortable to wear, and like housing, unsuitable. Unclear? Once again: people do not exist to increase the production of cast iron, a set-increase of cast iron serves to increase the well-being of people.
                        Quote: avva2012
                        And into space, Gagarin, flew from a trampoline.

                        Flew to other countries, are you up to date? And the atom was sorted out before.
                        And ALL scientists of atomic and space projects-learned in the IMPERIAL Universities of Russia IMPERIAL teachers-open biographies and enlighten, FINALLY!
                        And taking into account what losses Russian science suffered after the "October", it remains only to guess how many Gagarin and Kings the country has lost!
                        Quote: avva2012
                        you may personally hate the communists, but what is the country for?

                        Russia, Comrade Ava-BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! Chop on the nose!
                        Quote: avva2012
                        You also dare to call yourself a Russian, a disgrace.

                        It’s a disgrace to those “Russians,” who are FOURTH AFTER afraid to answer: Is Novorossia Russia or Ukraine?
                        Fi ...
            2. badens1111
              badens1111 19 November 2017 12: 07 New
              +9
              Quote: Olgovich
              Silence too?

              Lord ... what a loser you are and stubborn in hatred ...
              RUSSIA, this is all the geopolitical space from the banks of the Danube, the Prut, the Desna, the Baltic coasts to the Far East, from the Polar region, to Adzharia. BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR RUSSIA, yours, this is the stub that you left in 90, you and you like talkers are guilty of that sweat and blood of generations of Russians, you, let the dog down the drain ..
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 20 November 2017 09: 32 New
                +5
                Quote: badens1111
                Lord ... what a loser you are and stubborn in hatred ...

                calmer, comrade baden, otherwise you forget Russian in excitement lol Spien
                go, accent Baltic yes
                Quote: badens1111
                RUSSIA, this is the whole geopolitical space from the banks of the Danube, the Prut, the Desna, the Baltic coast to the Far East, from the Subpolar region, to Adzharia ..

                Sclerosis, comrade balance? "Moldovan, sit in Moldova and do not meddle in Russian affairs "-Tell me, trying to hook. And these are the words of a man whose "Russia is from the Danube and the Prut" ?!lol fool
                Show, by the way, a world map of 1922-1991 where there is a country RUSSIA from "Danube to Chukotka". Netuti? No: you erased her name for 70 years from the card. Fortunately, not for long. You are erased, and Russia IS again! Or give the words of the general secretaries about "Russia from the Danube to Chukotka." Or materials of party congresses about it. Literature, after all. What, again not lol can you

                We thought that the nationals would support you in gratitude for the gifts. ? fool And you, they just used it, like you threw it away.
                Quote: badens1111
                BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR RUSSIA, yours, this is the stub you left at 90, you and you like chatterboxes are guilty of sweat and blood of generations of Russians, you, let the dog down the drain ..

                This is exactly MY Russia. and YOUR was created in 1922 and 1936, by sequentially cutting off from the living body of RUSSIA Little Russia, New Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, etc., where YOU remade Russians into non-Russian Ukrainization and indigenousization. Forgot already?
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 20 November 2017 10: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  This is exactly MY Russia.

                  Namely, your stub of that Russia, Moldova mired in Russophobia.
                  And that Russia, in the form of the USSR, is unattainable and incomprehensible for you, like any Russophobic anti-Soviet, because the Bolsheviks so damned to you, managed to unite the Power, and you only squander everything that has been acquired by blood and then dozens of generations. not only those who lived in the USSR but also generations of imperial, tsarist and grand princely rule.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Show, by the way, a world map of 1922-1991 where there is a country RUSSIA from "Danube to Chukotka". Netuti? No: you erased her name for 70 years from the card.

                  Have you commented on what you decided to show? EVERYWHERE, in the WEST, US, CALLED OR SOVIET, BUT more often and PERMANENTLY RUSSIAN, DEPENDING ON REAL NATIONALITY. Does this bother you?
                  For you, it will be a great shock if the nationalists are Imperials, Orthodox monarchists, conditionally White, but not those who are glorious and kolchakov, and those, precisely the monarchists, will join forces with the Communists, an unenviable fate awaits you and hiccup along with the West you will have a long time.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  "Moldovan, sit in Moldova and do not meddle in Russian affairs," you tell me, trying to hook.
                  If someone told you this, then he correctly appreciated your writings.
                  That's right for you now. Take care of the arrangement of Moldova, they announce the President inadequate for two hours there in order to drag the traitor-pro-Western into the defense ministers. Once you have never once bothered with this state of affairs in your own country, it’s not difficult to understand what kind of “well-wisher” you are for Russia.
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Sclerosis,

                  Why do I need your story, your illness?
                  You are so forgetful that every time you use the wind long ago scattered by the ashes, rumors, myths, gossip, the roots of which are in Goebbels agitators and the CIA, is there anything you should take care of?
                  1. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 20 November 2017 10: 20 New
                    +2
                    Yes, he is not forgetful! A training manual is one with ALEXANDER and there are not many pages there. !!!!!
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 20 November 2017 11: 20 New
                    +5
                    Quote: badens1111
                    And that Russia, in the form of the USSR, d

                    "Russia in the form of the USSR" - WHERE are such formulations? Submit documents, not your clatter, fabrications! There are NO such documents! ANYWHERE! And there are documents on borders signed by the "republics", cut across Russia
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Namely, your stub of that Russia, Moldova mired in Russophobia.

                    WHO created almost mono-ethnic Moldova from the multinational BESSARAB province of the RSFSR in 1940, cutting off south and north from it? WHO has grown here a snake 100% tangle of nationalists of the Union of Writers, Teachers and other tv. intelligentsia? Immediately pulled, at the first opportunity, to Romania and the West and found a fertile field? Even during the Romanian occupation, THERE was not, but there were terrible anti-Romanian uprisings. What have you done in Russian Bessarabia?
                    And SO EVERYWHERE!
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Have you commented on what you decided to show? EVERYWHERE, in the WEST, US, CALLED OR SOVIET, BUT more often and PERMANENTLY RUSSIAN, DEPENDING ON REAL NATIONALITY. Does this bother you?

                    No chatter (who is what and how), and present DOCUMENTS and CARDS, where is RUSSIA from the Danube to Chukotka in 1922-91. Can't? no Come back when you find.
                    Quote: badens1111
                    If someone told you this, then he correctly appreciated your writings.

                    You, my friend, have spoken! Sklnroz?
                    Quote: badens1111
                    You are so forgetful that every time you use the wind long ago scattered by the ashes, rumors, myths, gossip, the roots of which are in Goebbels agitators and the CIA, is there anything you should take care of?

                    Again chatter .... request
                    Hunting time wasting? lol
                    PS AGAIN I ask the simplest direct question: is New Russia Russia or Ukraine?
                    Start slipping away lol
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 20 November 2017 11: 59 New
                      +1
                      Have you forgotten how to read?
                      For those who are in Moldova, they don’t understand the Russian language, Moldova is the same, part of Russia.
                      badens1111 7 Yesterday, 12:07 PM ↑
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Silence too?
                      Lord ... what a loser you are and stubborn in hatred ...
                      RUSSIA, this is all the geopolitical space from the banks of the Danube, the Prut, the Desna, the Baltic coasts to the Far East, from the Polar region, to Adzharia. BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR RUSSIA, yours, this is the stub that you left in 90, you and you like talkers are guilty of that sweat and blood of generations of Russians, you, let the dog down the drain ..
            3. MrK
              MrK 19 November 2017 16: 59 New
              +6
              Quote: Olgovich
              The same question for you: is Novorossia Russia or Ukraine?


              Yes, in Soviet times, it was violet to me and other people to Russia or Ukraine. And the Soviet Union collapsed, giving Ukraine and Crimea, and Novorossia not the Bolsheviks, but three drunks in Viskuly: Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich. What was immediately reported to the US president. And to consider them communists is schizophrenia.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 20 November 2017 08: 42 New
                +5
                Quote: mrark
                And the USSR collapsed, giving Ukraine and Crimea, and Novorossiya not the Bolsheviks, but three drunks in Viskuly: Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich. What was immediately reported to the US president. And to consider them communists is schizophrenia.

                Schizophrenia is to never create a so-called schizophrenia. "republics" - "states" with a nationalist elite, feed them at the expense of Russia and hope that they, in gratitude for this, will not run away at the earliest opportunity fool
                Yes, in Soviet times, it was violet to me and other people. Russia or Ukraine.

                To create a bomb, sit on it and hope that it does not explode is the destiny of full mugs, in contrast to the cunning beneficent nationals.
                Substation Novrossia, Donbass-Russia or Ukraine? Keep quiet I am ashamed, therefore, keep quiet.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 19 November 2017 09: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: Olgovich
      Who wants to remember their crimes and mistakes?

      Errors of whom exactly? And by the way, do not tell me whose idea in modern Russia to create 24 as yet dependent republics? In my opinion, Yeltsin - did he really think of it? The "heroes" are different - the methods are the same ... and who whispered everything to them about it?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 19 November 2017 11: 47 New
          +5
          Everything was thus prepared for a split, a division.
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 19 November 2017 17: 50 New
            +2
            Quote: Reptiloid
            Everything was thus prepared for a split, a division.

            As you see, when you directly called out who was the culprit, they erased right there.
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 19 November 2017 13: 36 New
        +6
        As you wish, but I like Stalin’s plan: it was REALISTIC, however, like the author himself. Stalin was a purely practical person and did not bother with NONSENDS about the world revolution. If in 1921 the point of view of the "Great Russian chauvinists" won, then in the worst case: the Russian Federation would be much richer and stronger now. All the same, Baku oil or Georgian vineyards and manganese would not be superfluous. Whether Georgia was part of the Russian Federation, the Americans could watch everything on Batumi and Sukhumi on TV, and in principle, it is possible that Americans will be in Poti and Batumi
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 19 November 2017 14: 28 New
          +6
          Quote: Monarchist
          If in 1921 the point of view of the "Great Russian chauvinists" won, then in the worst case scenario:

          No, in this case, we immediately lost Transcaucasia, immediately Central Asia, immediately enabled the nationalists of Ukraine to tear the country to pieces. And realizing this, Stalin, notwithstanding disputes with Lenin, admitted that he was right.
          Without the resources of these territories, in 1941 Russia, if it were left alone in the form of the RSFSR, it would have been much more difficult.
          Historically, Lenin was right. It was not his fault that the three drunkards in Bialowieza, having violated all possible and impossible conditions, laws, agreements, betrayed the whole country, for the sake of their personal power and the possibility of a sufficiently narrow handful of people, to fill their pockets.
          1. dSK
            dSK 20 November 2017 01: 44 New
            +3
            Quote: badens1111
            Historically, Lenin is right. It’s not his fault that there are three drunkards in Belovezhie,
            "Victory has seven mothers, and defeat is always an orphan." hi
            1. dSK
              dSK 20 November 2017 02: 21 New
              +4
              "So everyone who hears these words of mine and does them, I will liken a prudent man who built his house on a stone; and it started to rain, and the rivers spilled, and the winds blew, and rushed to that house, and it did not fall, because it was built on a stone. AND everyone who hears these My words and does not fulfill them will be likened to a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and it began to rain, and the rivers spilled, and the winds blew, and lay upon that house; and he fell, and his great fall was. " And when Jesus finished these words, the people marveled at His teaching, for He taught them as having authority, and not as the scribes and Pharisees. " hi
      3. RUSS
        RUSS 19 November 2017 17: 37 New
        +6
        The process has begun, as they say - “divide and rule”, it has long been noticed that they want to separate the Reds, Stalin from Lenin, the Bolsheviks from the Communists, etc. Recently, Lenin has been falling lower and lower in the ranking of the great people of Russia, he has pushed Ilyich, and then they will take up Stalin, we are going the right way! Now it is true that Stalin is in fashion in the mainstream, so to speak, although in many respects it is just a meme, but after Lenin I’m sure that the turn will reach Usa.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 19 November 2017 17: 48 New
          +4
          Quote: RUSS
          but after Lenin I’m sure that the line will reach Usa.

          And do not dream, your skin, red and hairy, in Russia remember as Judas, so with them your place, as in that film was said ...
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 20 November 2017 18: 58 New
            +1
            Quote: badens1111
            Quote: RUSS
            but after Lenin I’m sure that the line will reach Usa.

            And do not dream, your skin, red and hairy, in Russia remember as Judas, so with them your place, as in that film was said ...

            Those whom you listed are not my heroes, so alas .....
    3. Monarchist
      Monarchist 19 November 2017 13: 15 New
      +6
      Olgovich, I agree with you: for the sake of some kind of fantasy, frankly DEBIL, they began to accuse the Russians of all sins. I especially like how Lenin and Trotsky found the Great Russian chauvinists: a Georgian and a Pole. But it stemmed from that declaration.
    4. avva2012
      avva2012 19 November 2017 13: 32 New
      +6
      Olgovich, maybe you, an elderly woman, really? So it seems you are setting out on the bench OBS, "Russian scoundrels ...", what kind of painful conclusions do you present to us?
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 20 November 2017 05: 19 New
        +4






        [quote = avva2012] Olgovich, maybe you, an elderly woman, really? So it seems to set out on the bench OBS, "Russian scoundrels ...", [/ quote]
        Yes, not old, but very ancient! He remembers this ..... People do not live so much !!!!! And if only so !!!!! Then let it seem, why is this male gender? Of course, probably relatives ---- gave the computer, so that the granny-beautiful girl would not interfere with them, but read to us.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 20 November 2017 06: 37 New
          +4
          Yeah, remember! laughing I didn’t know, but I forgot laughing And the grandmother needs to take away the computer, obviously, you never know what else will come up. Or disconnect from the Internet, and round off the network. Let her communicate with herself.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 20 November 2017 07: 38 New
            +3
            That's because there is not one person on our website from different countries, but from Moldova --- only he. Why? Very suspicious.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 20 November 2017 08: 04 New
              +3
              There were, "Deutsche Welle", "Voice of America", and Olgovich, "the voices of Moldova."
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 20 November 2017 13: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: avva2012
        Olgovich, maybe you, an elderly woman, really? So it seems you are setting out on the bench OBS, "Russian scoundrels ...", what kind of painful conclusions do you present to us?

        What kind of sadness are you to me?
        About the "Russian scoundrels" - read the transcript of the X Congress of the All-Union Communist Party of Belarus. You just don't know much. Read it! hi
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 20 November 2017 16: 13 New
          0
          I know about that. Give the full text of the transcript where it is written about, and not a piece taken out of context. And, Olgovich, you are not in that field of berry to introduce you, studying the transcript of the congress.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 21 November 2017 11: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: avva2012
            I know about that. Give the full text of the transcript where it is written about, and not a piece taken out of context. And, Olgovich, you are not in that field of berry to introduce you, studying the transcript of the congress.

            That field, that: when I handed over scientific communisms (excellent), I didn’t read it, but now I read it to KNOW from the primary sources. And congresses, and Plenums (33, 34gg) and Collective Farmers Meetings (February 1933), etc. Hair DYBOM rise from hypocrisy, lies, flattery, dullness, lack of culture and Russophobia. And I recommend you is the ORIGINS, make your own assessment
            Find Comrade Speech SAFAROVA (even remembered his last name) and others at the congress, enjoy Russian scoundrels and Russian colonialists there, etc.
            I wonder. And not in order to prove something to you, I make up YOUR judgment
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 21 November 2017 11: 46 New
              +1
              get up from hypocrisy, lies, flattery, dullness, lack of culture and Russophobia.

              Olgovich, break a crooked mirror, it will not bring to good. I think the whole thing is in it, you are not Kai, so that you get a splinter in your eye.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 21 November 2017 12: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: avva2012
                get up from hypocrisy, lies, flattery, dullness, lack of culture and Russophobia.

                Olgovich, break a crooked mirror, it will not bring to good. I think the whole thing is in it, you are not Kai, so that you get a splinter in your eye.

                Smashed - already about 30 years ago. And read the source! YOURSELF - make sure.
                Are you afraid?
                Still would....
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 21 November 2017 12: 18 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Smashed - already about 30 years ago. And read the source! YOURSELF - make sure.

                  And where did all the fragments fly into? It seems that they didn’t spoil the skin very much, but they did something with the apparatus that is in the head process ..
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Are you afraid?

                  You Amnuel? Drandins, Sytsy ?? Laugh at the squalor of thoughts and poverty of intelligence.
                  1. long in stock.
                    long in stock. 21 November 2017 19: 19 New
                    +1
                    how scary we are .... this is how the Olgovich people will rise from edge to edge ... how they will go to the last and decisive ... yeah ... all 20 people. The maximum what these leaders are capable of is to rise up to the toilet ...
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 19 November 2017 07: 57 New
    +8
    Now Kamenyuki will fly to the author ...
    1. dSK
      dSK 20 November 2017 02: 08 New
      +3
      Hello Alexey! Quote: parusnik Yesterday, 15: 18 "You know, if the Communist Party was headed by J. Alferov and the like, he would have voted .. so no .... As for the elections .. For 25 years, in my opinion, we have been faced with a choice, to choose the lesser of the evils presented .. There is no respect for the Communist Party of Zyuganov, since then, when "Mr. - Comrade - Barin" stated that: the Communist Party of the Social Democratic Party and requested that they accept the Socialist Party ... The composition of the party is possible and communist, but it’s a leadership doesn’t apply .. I read Zyuganov’s work, there’s nothing communist there, left populist phraseology, sprinkled with cheers-patriotism, with an Orthodox touch ... "
      Once voted for Zyuganov, at a time when he was actively promoting the abolition of voucher privatization. I won’t be right now. hi
  4. Boris55
    Boris55 19 November 2017 08: 44 New
    +5
    But was there a political alternative in Russia at that time Bolshevik the principle of self-determination of peoples?

    I did not know that K. Marx was a Bolshevik laughing
    В 1865 in the year, proposing to the London Conference a draft outline of the program for the Geneva Congress of the International (International Workers' Partnership), Marx, in the whole Section III, “International Politics,” left only one question: “On the need the destruction of Muscovite influence in Europe by exercising the right of nations to self-determination and the restoration of Poland on a democratic and social basis. ” "
  5. rudolff
    rudolff 19 November 2017 10: 17 New
    +7
    The declaration became the forerunner of the formation of the USSR, and the USSR itself, as a national-territorial entity, became a bomb, which exploded 70 years later.
  6. 82т11
    82т11 19 November 2017 10: 26 New
    +4
    Whether the Bolsheviks were the cause of the collapse of the Russian Empire is not important. The main thing is that then when they came to power they corrected the situation, but on the contrary began to develop national minorities. They can’t understand them, you can divide and rule the principle, they knew, and if you add that the main thing is a revolution around the world and nationality does not matter. You can understand the logic of their decision.
    But the decision was wrong and became one of the reasons for the collapse of the USSR.
    And especially the brotherhood of the working people manifested itself when Communist China switched to the US side.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 19 November 2017 11: 43 New
      +3
      About the development of small nations --- it’s well said, but because of the beginning I think that the cracker comment,
      Quote: 82т11
      Whether the Bolsheviks were the cause of the collapse of the Russian Empire is not important. .
      then they fixed it, ---- that says it all. !!!!! Bolshevik wines!
      How could they be the cause of the collapse if the dates are clearly written in the article and who was in power? This is if you do not know that at the time the Provisional Government came to power, the Bolsheviks were a small party and V. I. LENIN did not expect an imminent proletarian revolution
      1. dSK
        dSK 20 November 2017 02: 39 New
        +3
        Hello Dmitry!
        Quote: Reptiloid
        at the time the Provisional Government came to power, the Bolsheviks were a small party

        Kerensky started, Bronstein (Trotsky), Ulyanov-Blank (Lenin) finished, the standard Masonic strategy. "Divide and rule." Lodges are different and the puppeteer is the only customer. hi
  7. Operator
    Operator 19 November 2017 12: 04 New
    +5
    The Jewish International and the Jewish RSDLP (b) have relied on the collapse of Russia. In December 1922, using the victory in the Civil War and strengthening their vertical of power, the Jewish Communists the first thing they did was to destroy the federal RSFSR and create a confederate USSR.

    In 1991, the Communist Gorbachev, under the control of the Karaite Raisa, prepared a draft of a new Union Treaty, where the right to free exit from the RSFSR was granted to all autonomous republics of Russia.

    The GKChP of the USSR and the President of the RSFSR Yeltsin, each in their own way, did not allow the signing of a new Union Treaty.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 19 November 2017 12: 49 New
      +6
      Another Nazi plum zashchashchitschit! (under the control of the karaite Raisa) laughing
      1. Operator
        Operator 19 November 2017 13: 12 New
        +4
        Yes, yes, yes: Mordechism-Blanquism is more alive than all living laughing
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 19 November 2017 13: 44 New
          +6
          Somewhere I met such information that the creation of new words and terms is called neologism and is inherent in a certain disease of the upper body.
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 19 November 2017 15: 39 New
            +6
            they met Solzhenitsyn. he was an indescribable master in creating new words ...
        2. MrK
          MrK 19 November 2017 17: 14 New
          +6
          Quote: Operator
          Yes, yes, yes: Mordechism-Blanquism is more alive than all living


          ... In the field of revelations, the 2 man in the CPSU, the Deputy Secretary General of the Central Committee of the CPSU Gorbacheva M.S. according to ideology, and, at the same time, the CIA secret agent recruited in Canada A.N. Yakovlev. It doesn’t matter if Yakovlev was a hireling of enemy forces, and if he wasn’t, he didn’t work for a fee or for deep moral conviction (this is called “agent of influence” in the language of professionals).
          There is indirect evidence that he was recruited by Boris Brazol, who in the summer of 1938 collaborated with the Gestapo and the SS, helping to organize an anti-Comintern congress. He later worked at Columbia University. And it was he who conducted soul-saving conversations with the Ambassador of the USSR A. Yakovlev In Canada. So Brazol agitated Yakovlev: "it is necessary to convince the people that all communists are Jews. And then the USSR will fall apart". Information from the site: http://eot.su/node/16206.
          This is me personally to the small sub-fascist - the Operator
          1. Operator
            Operator 19 November 2017 20: 05 New
            +2
            The fact that mRARK is Russophobe does not require evidence.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 20 November 2017 08: 07 New
              +2
              That is, "Russophobe" writes that A.N. Yakovlev, was recruited by foreign intelligence for the collapse of the USSR? Where is the logic?
  8. timyr
    timyr 19 November 2017 12: 47 New
    +7
    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: timyr
    As always, Bulkohrust Olgovich confuses cause and effect.

    Peskohrusty, as always, do not want to see the truth, a betrayal of the interests of the Russian people.
    You tell me directly: Novorossia, Donbass is Ukraine or Russia?
    For me, this is Russia. And you, for sure, keep silent, in a sand-crust manner.
    That's the whole story. lol

    Quote: Olgovich
    Quote: timyr
    As always, Bulkohrust Olgovich confuses cause and effect.

    Peskohrusty, as always, do not want to see the truth, a betrayal of the interests of the Russian people.
    You tell me directly: Novorossia, Donbass is Ukraine or Russia?
    For me, this is Russia. And you, for sure, keep silent, in a sand-crust manner.
    That's the whole story. lol

    Ukraine is Russia, but thanks to actions like you, Ukraine is becoming non-Russia. And your cries about the Bolsheviks remind me of screams about the Russian threat and the ubiquitous Russian hackers that affect everything
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 22 November 2017 10: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: timyr
      Ukraine is Russia, but thanks to actions like you, Ukraine is becoming non-Russia. And your cries about the Bolsheviks remind me of screams about the Russian threat and the ubiquitous Russian hackers that affect everything

      No answer! As expected.
      Shame ..
  9. Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 19 November 2017 14: 20 New
    +5
    National state in German bayonets? I think the Finns need to erect a monument to those who helped to cope with home-grown Bolsheviks.
    In the USSR, “communism” was identified with neighboring Finland, the dream country was and remains) Although it must be said, it is in Scandinavia, in particular in Sweden and Finland, with their level, i.e. quality of life and social programs, one of the highest in the world, he won)
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 19 November 2017 15: 42 New
      +6
      You are right: practically turned out to be realizable, and then,
      only in countries with high social consciousness, ideas
      Karl Kautsky, a socialist from Prague.
      The same "Scandinavian socialism", it is - "socialism
      with a human face. "In all other attempts, socialism
      degenerated into a variety of dictatorships or authoritarian regimes.
      Or there was a return to ordinary capitalism.
      Here is his portrait: Karl Kautsky is the father of true socialism. good
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 19 November 2017 16: 27 New
        +5
        Ah, how do you know? You do not live under socialism. In Israel, an ordinary capitalist society with its own specifics, of course, but has nothing to do with Kautsky's ideas. Of course, I can be mistaken, because I live in Russia, but sometimes I listen to Eaton TV, and not just Jacob Kedmi.
        And about socialism of the Swedish type. You, don’t you know that from European countries, it was Sweden that made the most of it. On deliveries to Great Germany. What VG did, I think you should not remind. There is such a human face, in Scandinavian socialism, that not every horror with modern special effects can show. Although, directly, they almost didn’t kill anyone. So, the division, the “Viking” and something else, the little things. And then, built "socialism", the real one! On the blood of Russians, Jews, Tatars, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Komi, etc. Because without Swedish ore, there was no way to start a war. And Auschwitz cannot be built.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 19 November 2017 17: 21 New
          +4
          "You do not live under socialism. In Israel, an ordinary capitalist society with its own specifics,
          of course, but has nothing to do with Kautsky’s ideas "////

          In Israel, socialism was built until the 70s approximately. Still functioning
          collective farms - kibbutzim. But it turned out that we, in order to survive in a hostile environment,
          it is necessary to develop many times faster than the methods of Kautskgo allow.
          The Scandinavian countries did not have such pressure. Therefore, it turned out to be saving
          the transition to market liberal capitalism that began in the 80s.
          And GDP jumped many times, despite wars and a doubling of the population. Of course had
          strain, not all, of course, were happy. But now no one has doubts about the correctness of the change of course.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 20 November 2017 02: 20 New
            +1
            A dashing maneuver evaded unpleasant references to whose blood and bones Swedish socialism was created on.
      2. Scorpio05
        Scorpio05 19 November 2017 17: 13 New
        +3
        I absolutely agree with you. Socialism was originally aimed at improving the well-being of people and it is possible in a society with a high consciousness and level of education and organization that does not allow translating the evolutionary development of society into a massacre of dissenters and dissenters. The emphasis in the USSR on a fierce and uncompromising class struggle with its dogmatism and the role of a poorly educated mass called the union (dictatorship) of the proletariat (in the role of hegemon) and the peasantry was doomed to create a totalitarian state in advance. As for Kautsky, I would say a symbiosis of the ideas of Kautsky and E. Bernshtein, the brilliant ideologist of socialism, who distinguished him from the utopianism of pseudo-economists and the anarchism of Plekhanovism. And on the contrary, he objected to the transformation of socialism into a warlike dogma, torn into the class battle of the bloodthirsty Lenin and Co. Kautsky correctly predicted the failure of the Bolshevik experiment and supported the idea of ​​"organized capitalism", peacefully growing in socialism, which won in the Scandinavian countries. Bernstein echoed to him that an integrated bourgeois society can be transformed into a socialist one in an evolutionary way, on the basis of democracy, solidarity and self-determination, without revolutions and armed struggle that only violate the process of natural development. Although I consider it nonsense, his idea of ​​"cooperation" as the basis of such a society.
        1. MrK
          MrK 19 November 2017 19: 32 New
          +5
          Quote: Scorpio05
          As for Kautsky, I would say a symbiosis of the ideas of Kautsky and E. Bernstein, the brilliant ideologist of socialism, who distinguished him from the utopianism of pseudo-economists and the anarchism of Plekhanovism.

          Well scribe. The philosophers have come. Kautsky and Bernshtein are the same protagonists of the oppressed classes as I am the protector of penguins from Jewish oppression
          1. Scorpio05
            Scorpio05 19 November 2017 21: 14 New
            +3
            Eka how the class struggle carried you away am Yes, and you don’t need to protect anyone ... Anyone’s defender will automatically begin to destroy the other side, and then ... As history has shown, the oppressed classes do not need “protection”, which quickly flows into the mass terror of these same classes (because there are no others left, but it’s not possible to stop), necessarily destroying as a result the organizers of the repressions themselves ...
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 20 November 2017 02: 25 New
              +1
              You would, nevertheless, have learned to state your own thoughts or those of others, but in your own interpretation. Would develop a theme, raise the popularization of repression and totalitarianism in the United States and Europe.
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 19 November 2017 15: 44 New
      +6
      who told you this about Finland? I remember Dovlatov’s Estonians also said that a real Estonian should live in Australia .. but you shouldn’t believe the opinion of one or more people ... the Finns got it right, they are great. all that they could not sell in the west willingly took the Soviet Union, because you need to be friends with a neighbor. Normal rational policy.
  10. avva2012
    avva2012 19 November 2017 16: 52 New
    +5
    Curious,
    I would agree, but there are a lot of them on the site and one thought. Pandemic or what?
    1. Curious
      Curious 19 November 2017 18: 46 New
      +5
      This case is unique. And that is a lot - I agree. But they are diverse.
      1. long in stock.
        long in stock. 19 November 2017 20: 18 New
        +4
        but basically what kind of dreary .. learned phrases at all. some howls —right as if you are talking with a hysterical girl .. it’s even sensible to argue with no-one primitive creatures ..
        1. Curious
          Curious 19 November 2017 21: 40 New
          +3
          Do you think that living with a full mouth for ... e ... ma is fun? Of course it's sad. And such a state of accumulation of excess excrement in the body can occur on various issues. The bakers are just one of the varieties.
          And mass media contribute to the expansion of the base and the narrowing of the intellectual level. Everything is natural.
  11. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 20 November 2017 00: 24 New
    +3
    Quote: "The concept of workers' control in enterprises turned out to be no less utopian. The idea before us is not Bolshevik, but rather anarcho-syndicalist ..."

    Worker control with anarcho-syndicalism has nothing to do. Worker control is an element of the dictatorship of the proletariat, it played a positive role, did not let the owners close the enterprises and take out capital abroad. Later it was replaced by a more advanced apparatus by the Workers 'and Peasants' Inspectorate.
    Anarcho-syndicalism is the return of enterprises not to state ownership, which works for the whole people, but directly to the hands of the labor collectives that work there as private property. IN AND. Lenin criticized those who proposed it, because this led to yet another inequality and the destruction of socialism, which you and I observed at the end of Gorbach's perestroika.
  12. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 20 November 2017 00: 38 New
    +3
    The document establishing the RSFSR was the "Declaration of the Rights of the Working and Exploited People." Paragraph 1.2 read:
    "The Soviet Russian Republic is established on the basis of a free union of free nations as a federation of Soviet national republics."
    That is, at the very first stage, Lenin conceived the RSFSR as the basis of the union of free nations. And this fact is confirmed by the Constitution of the RSFSR of 1918. Article 49 paragraph e):
    “Adoption of new members of the Soviet Republic to the Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic and recognition of the withdrawal of certain parts of it from the Russian Federation.”
    Thus, the party and Lenin in 1918 assumed the entry, on the basis of treaties, of all emerging national republics into the RSFSR. And compliance with the principle of self-determination up to secession was confirmed by the constitution of the federation.
    But by this time independent Soviet republics had already appeared: Ukraine, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia. The republics of Bukhara and Khorezm appeared. Separated Finland, Poland, the Baltic republics, Tuva.
    The unification of these independent republics, which were not part of the RSFSR, was supposed to be in 1918, but objectively took place gradually. At first, military efforts in the Civil War were combined, then the need arose to present a uniform policy at the Hague Conference, and economic relations, military and current needs of the population demanded a single economic space.
    In the autumn of 1922, a commission was created to consider the issue of unification, it adopted the draft of Stalin as a basis. Here is the point that is usually taken as the project of Stalin’s autonomy, which he refused when he met with Lenin:
    "1. To recognize as appropriate the formal entry of the independent Soviet republics: Ukraine, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia into the RSFSR, leaving the question of Bukhara, Khorezm and Far Eastern Democratic Republic open and confining itself to the adoption of agreements with them on customs, foreign trade, foreign and military affairs, etc. ” .
    But how to make independent states join the RSFSR? They can be involved in unification only by an equal agreement.
    This fact September 26 V.I. Lenin discussed with I.V. Stalin, after which, in § 1, instead of "formal entry into the RSFSR", it was written "formal union with the RSFSR into the union of the Soviet republics of Europe and Asia."
    Thus, the RSFSR recognized itself as an equal with the Ukrainian SSR and others and, together with them, joined the new union, the new federation, the Union of Soviet Republics of Europe and Asia
    Such a union required one more floor of power, but the main thing is that all the republics where the Soviet power was after that voluntarily joined the Union, which no longer allowed to not destroy their independence.
    In order to equalize all nationalities, since most of them remained part of the RSFSR, as autonomous republics that did not sign the union treaty, Stalin proposed the creation of:
    “... in addition to the two union bodies (CEC and SNK) another third union body, intermediate between them, so to speak, the upper house with a representation from nationalities, equally from each ...”
    So, there has been no dispute about the notorious “autonomy” between Stalin and Lenin since the end of September 1922. Stalin embodied the Leninist project for the creation of the USSR, and the amendment he introduced on the chamber of nationalities solved the most important problem of more complete equality of nationalities that arose as a result of the union treaty.
    And the right of nations to self-determination played a positive role in the civil war. None of the self-determined republics supported the white movement.
    1. dSK
      dSK 20 November 2017 02: 54 New
      +4
      Atheists did not deter the USSR from collapse. "Therefore, I will liken everyone who hears these words of mine and does them, prudent husband who built his house on a stone; and it started to rain, and the rivers spilled, and the winds blew, and rushed to that house, and it did not fall, because it was built on a stone. And everyone who hears these My words and does not fulfill them will be likened a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and it began to rain, and the rivers spilled, and the winds blew, and lay upon that house; and he fell, and his great fall was. " And when Jesus finished these words, the people marveled at His teaching, for He taught them as having authority, and not as the scribes and Pharisees. "
      1. dSK
        dSK 20 November 2017 02: 59 New
        +4

        "According to the Russian leader, Alexander III defended the world for Russia not with concessions, but with firmness. The head of state called the emperor an outstanding figure and patriot, who always deeply felt personal responsibility for the fate of the country, did everything to develop and strengthen the state." Contemporaries called him king peacemaker, but, as noted by Sergei Yulievich Witte, he gave Russia 13 years of peace not by concessions, but by fair and unshakable firmness. Alexander III defended his interests directly and openly, and such a policy ensured the growth of Russia's influence and an increase in its authority in the world. " hi
      2. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 21 November 2017 18: 48 New
        +4
        Quote: dsk
        Atheists did not deter the USSR from collapse.

        You think one-sidedly. Look at such processes more broadly. I suggest.
        Believers and the Orthodox Church failed to keep Russia from fragmentation and from the Tatar-Mongol yoke (XIII century).
        Believers and the Orthodox Church failed to keep the Russian Empire from collapse in early 1917 (XX century)
        Atheists did not deter the USSR from collapse. (XX century).

        Output. So the reason is not in belief, but in something else.
        1. dSK
          dSK 21 November 2017 21: 19 New
          +2
          Hello, Alexander!
          Quote: Alexander Green
          in something else.

          Dear historians, the recognized historian Klyuchevsky is about the Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince Vladimir "The Red Sun" (read the history of his baptism when he was an idolater and how dramatically changed after). Vladimir began to collect from disparate tribes (Drevlyans, glade ....) state. Because faith does not divide according to nationality - all brothers and sisters in Christ. Equal to the Apostles the enlightened woman of Georgia Nina and Nikolai of Japan (enlightened Japan) were canonized.
          When the Golden Horde arrived 250 years later, there were 400 churches in Kiev. But at the same time, the supreme power, in pursuit of profit, traded in its people, selling them to the west (which is repeated now). Craftsmen, engineers of the time, fled north to Moscow, Vladimir, Novgorod forests. When they burned Kiev, and other "southern", steppe cities, holy noble prince Alexander Nevsky in constant campaigns he defended and gathered Russia. He repelled Western attacks, went to the capital of the Golden Horde twice to Siberia, paid tribute (forces were not equal), but did not bow to idols and did not betray faith. Before his death, he became a monk and a schema. (In the history of the Russian Orthodox Church canonized of the "officers", still only Admiral Ushakov). Grand Duke Dmitry Donskoy with moral support St. Sergius, Abbot of Radonezh, All Russia Wonderworker won the Battle of Kulikovo. hi
          1. dSK
            dSK 21 November 2017 22: 25 New
            +2
            from the collapse in early 1917
            Peter I, in pursuit of technological progress, began to undermine the canonical foundations of the church, abolishing the Patriarchate. At the beginning of his reign, he lived in England and Holland for two years, and had close contacts with the Freemasons (this is well known). By reforming the church, putting it under state control, he violated the basic church canons. Faith is a purely voluntary affair. When the officials of the Synod began to see that the servants regularly received communion, faith turned into an empty formality. According to the theologian Alexei Osipov, after two hundred years in theological academies, some professors did not believe in God, not to mention seminarians, there were cases when monks lived with women, etc. Nicholas II, about ten years old, was asked to restore the Patriarchate, but he believed in the leadership of the Synod of Pobedonostsev about the untimelyness of the reform (for which he paid in general). In troubled times, on the open August 15 1917 year, the Council of the Russian Orthodox Church raised the question of restoring the patriarchate in Russia. The opinion of the people on it was expressed by the peasants: "We no longer have the King, no father we loved; It is impossible to love the synod, and therefore we, peasants, want the Patriarch". And on November 18, under the thunder of guns, under the chatter of machine guns, God’s hand is delivered to the Patriarchal throne High priest Tikhonto ascend to his Golgotha ​​and become a holy martyr patriarch. "
            The Jewish people, for their "apostasy", fell into Babylonian captivity for 70 years. The term strangely coincides with the duration of atheist rule in Russia in the twentieth century. hi
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 22 November 2017 02: 04 New
            +1
            dSK
            "Vladimir began to collect from separate tribes (Drevlyans, glade ....) the state. Because faith does not divide according to nationality - all brothers and sisters in Christ ".
            By your answer you only confirmed that you look at history one-sidedly, only from a clerical position, and it is not scientific.
            So you start from an erroneous assessment of the merits of Prince Vladimir, ascribe to him the collection of Russian lands. But the old Russian state took shape long before it, and as a secular one, and it took shape not according to religious ties, but according to economic ones.
            Not only is your approach not learned, you, being held captive by your clerical views, are also inconsistent in your assessments
            For example, atheist Bolsheviks, too, are not divided into nationalities, and they, despite foreign military intervention and civil war, also gathered the lands of Russia and defended its independence. But for some reason you refuse them the same assessment as Vladimir.
            Or, further, you write that artisans fled from the Tatars to the north, but then everyone fled from the enemy, who cut out all the people to the root. At the same time, for some reason, you are completely silent about the fact that during the baptism of Rus, artisans and other active working people also went north into the woods because they did not want to accept a new religion.
  13. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 20 November 2017 08: 52 New
    +2
    This document has already been laid down a scheme for reassembling the state.

    Yes, such a scheme that in 1991, the highly indestructible Soviet Union finally broke up with a stroke of the pen.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  14. badens1111
    badens1111 20 November 2017 10: 04 New
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    Substation Novrossia, Donbass-Russia or Ukraine? Keep quiet I am ashamed, therefore, keep quiet.

    Calm down, this is Russia, temporarily seized territories as a result of your fuss, or rather your kind, in Viskuly.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 20 November 2017 10: 28 New
      +1
      In its history, Russia twice or thrice lost territory, which is now called Dagestan. Even earlier, we left part of the Baltic states, Smolensk, and much more. Interestingly, there is such a direct proportion. After the loss of some territory, an even larger one was added to Russia. So, do not pour Olgovich, crocodile tears. Everything will be fine in the USSR.
    2. Dzmicer
      Dzmicer 20 November 2017 14: 07 New
      +3
      Oh, comrade, not like me, but you. I personally have nothing to do with the CPSU. The USSR collapsed by some miracle exactly along party borders. Not ethnic, not historical, but partisan, so it was not “liberals”, not “nationalists” who were behind its collapse, but the Soviet elite, the red feudal lords, who divided the strongly indestructible alliance into Lenas.
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 22 November 2017 10: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: badens1111
      Quote: Olgovich
      Substation Novrossia, Donbass-Russia or Ukraine? Keep quiet I am ashamed, therefore, keep quiet.
      Calm down, this is Russia

      Finally, squeezed out!
      The next question: WHY is this Russia in Ukraine?
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 22 November 2017 10: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Olgovich
        Finally, squeezed out!

        What you squeezed out of yourself and what color it is with a smell, you have been told more than once.
        Yours this here is https: //cont.ws/@lapsha71/774673
        and their fate, in the future will be yours.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 22 November 2017 10: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: badens1111
          What did you squeeze out of yourself and what color is it with smellYou have been told more than once.

          Your fragrant comment, Bolshevik! good
          And all the wives, Comrade BABENS, WHY Russia (Novorossiya) -in Ukraine?
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 22 November 2017 16: 02 New
            +1
            for the same reason that you are here and not in a madhouse ...
  15. Scorpio05
    Scorpio05 20 November 2017 14: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: avva2012
    You would, nevertheless, have learned to state your own thoughts or those of others, but in your own interpretation. Would develop a theme, raise the popularization of repression and totalitarianism in the United States and Europe.

    And what are you, in fact, dissatisfied with?) Thought incorrect or plagiarism discovered? Maybe paraphrase did not like? If you decide to criticize, you could be more substantive. Totalitarianism in the USA?)) Is it like the American Solovki and the millions of "repressed" communists? laughing Yes there was a "Grand Jury" and a type of witch-hunt, but apparently Edgar Hoover had some reasons, but this does not attract repression. Especially the quiet old woman Europe, was not seen in anything like this, apart from the suppression of the Spartacist rallies and the Hamburg uprising in Germany at different times, well, so history put everything in its place. I do not understand, frankly, what you want to say.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 20 November 2017 16: 44 New
      +4
      They didn’t understand, they didn’t understand. Live by proxy and live on. History will put everything in its place and each in its place. I have long understood that some can not be redone. Either he was born this way, or he was brought up, or maybe all together. People once died for the sake of justice, they built a country, defended it, and then, like you, they were born to write about repressions, to collect all sorts of nasty things about ancestors and to bow down to villains and murderers. Who is Hoover? Mr. of the Mr. Zey. Did he have “grounds”? One like him and the foundation are not needed.
      It's nothing, everything will be all right. Not true for everyone, but it will be.
  16. Gopnik
    Gopnik 20 November 2017 14: 54 New
    +4
    The bastards Russophobes Bolsheviks tattered Russian land. And after all, there are fools who honor Blanca-Dzhugashvili and at the same time consider themselves Russian patriots. Truly, the Bolshevik-Stalinist means Russophobe
  17. long in stock.
    long in stock. 22 November 2017 15: 58 New
    +1
    Olgovich,
    olgovia, as always. a monk who does not know Latin ..... your report is on you
    Changes in the structure and nutritional level of the USSR population during the period from 1913 to 1954 are characterized by the following data (per kilogram per year - kilograms):

     
                                    1913 1928 1937 1940 1950 1954
     Bread Products
    (bread translated into flour,
     flour, groats,
    pasta) 200 214 192 195 172 180

    potatoes 75 130 151 118 241 153
     
    vegetables and melons 40 72 78 67 51 66
     
    meat and lard (with skins) 27 32 18 24 26 32
     
    fish and fish products 6,7 3,5 5,6 5,1 7,0 8,9
     
    Milk
    and dairy products in milk 154 182 138 143 172 175
     
    eggs - pieces 48 60 43 54 60 84
     
    vegetable oil - 2,6 2,0 2,3 2,7 4,8

    sugar 8,1 7,5 13,8 8,7 11,6 20,9 where is the deterioration of nutrition in comparison with 1913 ??? that's when the man is stuck - he is not able to read the simplest table ... but he tries to poke with heat her ... and this explains the reason for his stupidity_
    Noteworthy is the very low level of consumption of milk and dairy products in the Uzbek SSR, the Tajik SSR and the Moldavian SSR. In these republics, dairy farming is underdeveloped .... children drink milk, otherwise you'll suffer from brain obstruction ...
  18. fbird
    fbird 16 January 2018 20: 08 New
    +1
    Why justify them? Look at today's Ukraine - how many territories are there torn off from Russia? Redness is not an excuse for idiocy, but an aggravating circumstance. And why should the Russians justify those who tried to destroy them? To develop the so-called "national republics" to the detriment of Russia is not a crime, but a mistake - which is much worse.
  19. ver_
    ver_ 10 February 2018 09: 52 New
    0
    ... * Jews, Jews, only Jews around * * ..