Military Review

Zhores Alferov: If it weren't for 90s, now iPhones would have been released here

201
Zhores Alferov: If it weren't for 90s, now iPhones would have been released here



To worship not success, but knowledge

Dmitry Pisarenko, AiF: Zhores Ivanovich, I will start with an unexpected question. They say that this year the Ukrainian site “Peacemaker” included you in the list of people disliked to enter the territory of Ukraine? But you have a brother buried there.

Zhores Alferov: I have not heard about this, it will be necessary to find out. But this is strange ... I have a foundation from which scholarships are paid to Ukrainian schoolchildren in the village of Komarivka, Cherkasy region. Not far away, in a mass grave near the village of Khilki, my elder brother, who volunteered to the front and died during the Korsun-Shevchenko operation, was indeed buried.

In Ukraine, I used to be every year, I am an honorary citizen of Khilkov and Komarivki. Last time I came there in 2013, along with foreign scientists. We were very warmly received. And my American colleague, the Nobel laureate Roger Kornberg, after talking with the locals, exclaimed: “Jores, how could you share? You are one people! ”

What is happening in Ukraine is terrible. And in fact, threatens the death of all mankind. For the whole planet now is the black time - the time of fascism in various forms. In my opinion, this is because there is no longer such a powerful deterrent as the Soviet Union was.

- Who is holding back?

- World capitalism. You know, I often recall a conversation with the father of my old friend Professor Nick Holonyak, held in 1971, when I came to them in an abandoned mining town near St. Louis. He told me: “At the beginning of the twentieth century. we lived and worked in terrible conditions. But after the Russian workers staged a revolution, our bourgeoisie were frightened and changed their social policy. So American workers live well thanks to the October Revolution! ”

- Is there any evil smirk stories? After all, for us this grand social experiment was unsuccessful.

- One second. Yes, it ended unsuccessfully because of the betrayal of our party elite, but the experiment itself was successful! We have created the first state of social justice in history, this principle has been implemented in practice. Under the conditions of a hostile capitalist environment, which did everything possible to destroy our country, when we were forced to spend money on weapons, on developing the same atomic bomb, we came in second place in the world in food production per capita!

You know, the great physicist Albert Einstein published an article “Why Socialism?” In 1949. In it, he wrote that under capitalism “production is carried out for profit, not consumption”. Private ownership of the means of production leads to the emergence of an oligarchy, and the results of the labor of others are taken away according to the law, which turns into lawlessness. Einstein's conclusion: the economy should be planned, and the tools and means of production - public. He considered the greatest evil of capitalism “mutilation of the personality” when in the educational system students are forced to worship success, not knowledge. Not the same thing happening with us now?

Understand, from the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed, does not mean that the market economy is more effective than planned. But I would rather tell you about what I know well - about science. Look where we had it before and where now! When we first started making transistors, the first secretary of the Leningrad regional party committee personally came to our laboratory, sat with us, asked: what was needed, what was missing? I made my work on semiconductor heterostructures, for which I was then given the Nobel Prize, I did before the Americans. I overtook them! I came to the States and lectured them, and not vice versa. And we started production of these electronic components earlier. If it were not for 90-ies, iPhones and iPads would now be released here, and not in the United States.

- Can we still start making such devices? Or is it too late, the train left?

- Only if we create new principles of their work and then we can develop them. American Jack Kilby, who received the Nobel Prize in the same year as I, laid the principles of silicon chips at the end of 1950's. And they still remain the same. Yes, the methods themselves have developed, become nanoscale. The number of transistors on a chip has increased by orders of magnitude, and we have already approached their limit value. The question arises: what next? Obviously, you need to go to the third dimension, create bulk chips. Anyone who masters this technology will make a breakthrough and be able to make the electronics of the future.

- Among the Nobel laureates of this year again there were no Russians. Should we sprinkle ashes on our heads because of this? Or is it time to stop paying attention to the decisions of the Nobel Committee?

- The Nobel Committee never deliberately offended us and did not bypass us. When it was possible to give an award to our physicists, they were given. There are so many Americans among the Nobel laureates simply because science in this country is generously funded and is in the sphere of state interests.

And what about us? Our last Nobel Prize in physics was given for the work that was done in the West. This is a study of graphene, conducted by Geym and Novoselov in Manchester. And the last prize, awarded for works in our country, was given to Ginzburg and Abrikosov in 2003, but these works (on superconductivity) date back to 1950 years. I was given a prize for the results obtained at the end of 1960's.

Now we don’t have the work of the Nobel Prize level in physics. And the reason is the same - the lack of demand for science. It will be in demand - scientific schools will appear, and then Nobel laureates will follow. Say, a lot of Nobel laureates came out of the firm "Bell telephone". She invested heavily in basic research because she saw prospects in them. Hence the prize.

Where is nanotechnology?

- This year, something incomprehensible was happening around the election of the President of the RAS. Candidates would recuse themselves, elections were postponed from March to September. What was it? They say the Kremlin has imposed its candidate on the Academy, but it did not pass under the statute, since it was not an academician?

- I find it difficult to explain why the candidates began to refuse. Probably something like that really happened. Apparently, they were told to give up.

How were the elections during the Soviet era? Comrade Suslov came to the Academy and said: “Mstislav Vsevolodovich Keldysh wrote a statement asking to release him from the duties of the president for health reasons. You choose who will occupy this position. But it seems to us that a good candidate is Anatoly Petrovich Alexandrov. We cannot insist, we simply express our opinion. ” And we chose Anatoly Petrovich, he was a wonderful president.

I believe that the authorities should either take the solution of this question on themselves (and do it as it was under Soviet rule), or give it to the Academy for consideration. And playing such games is the worst option.

- Do you expect a change for the better after the election of a new president?

- I would like to, but it will not be easy. We have chosen a very reasonable president. Sergeev is a good physicist. True, he has a small organizational experience. But the other is worse - it is in very difficult conditions. As a result of the reforms, a number of strikes have already been inflicted on the Academy.

The main problem of Russian science, which I don’t get tired of talking about, is the lack of demand for its results for the economy and society. It is necessary for the country's leadership to finally pay attention to this problem.

- How to achieve this? You are on good terms with President Putin. Does he consult with you? Maybe calling home? It happens?

- Can not be. (He is silent for a long time.) Difficult question. The country's leadership should, on the one hand, understand the need for a broad development of science and scientific research. After all, our science often made a breakthrough primarily because of its military applications. When making a bomb, it was necessary to create rockets and electronics. And electronics then found application in the civil sphere. The industrialization program was also broad.

On the other hand, the authorities should support, first of all, those scientific directions that will pull a lot of other things with them. It is necessary to identify such areas and invest in them. This is a high-tech industry - electronics, nanotechnology, biotechnology. Investments in them will be win-win. Let's not forget that we are strong in software. And the shots still remained, not all went abroad.

- Do we need to return scientists who have achieved success in the West, as Putin has recently said?

- I think that is not necessary. For what? What we ourselves can not grow talented young people?

“Well, the newcomer receives the government’s“ megagrant ”, with this money he opens a laboratory, attracts young specialists, trains them ...

- ... and then sheds back! I myself faced this. One owner of the "megagrant" worked for me and faded. They will not stay in Russia anyway. If a scientist succeeded somewhere in another country, he most likely got a family there, a multitude of connections. And if he did not achieve anything there, then, one wonders, why do we need him here?

“Megagrants” of the government are aimed at attracting people of the middle generation to science. We really have very few of them now. But I think we can train them ourselves. Several of my guys, after graduating from graduate school and magistracy, headed such laboratories. And in a couple of years they became this very middle generation of researchers. And they are not going to leave anywhere! Because they are different, they grew up here.

- Trying to evaluate the achievements of modern Russian science, people often ask: “There’s Rosnano.” Where are the notorious nanotechnologies? ”

- When we have a real e-corporation, then there will be nanotechnology. What does this bourgeois Chubais understand in them? What can he do? Only privatize and make a profit.

I will give you an example. The first LEDs in the world appeared in our laboratory. And it was Chubais who privatized and sold the company, which was created to revive the production of LEDs in Russia. And it instead of adjusting the production.

- The new president of the Russian Academy of Sciences proposes to charge money for science from commodity corporations. What do you think about this?

- Just ordering corporations from above to allocate money for science is not the best way. The main thing is to create a new economy, to make it high-tech. Putin called the task of business the creation of 25 million jobs in the high-tech sector to 2020, and I would add myself: these are also tasks of science and education. It is necessary to increase the budget allocations for them.

As for corporations, they should, together with scientists, determine the necessary research directions. And to put funds for these studies in the budget. In the USSR, instead of state corporations there were industrial ministries. Being interested in our results, they gave out money to scientists when they saw that there could be something promising for them from scientific research. We concluded economic contracts for large sums, gave us our equipment. So the mechanism is worked out.

It is necessary to make the results of scientific work relevant. Although it is a long way.
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  1. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 19 November 2017 07: 07 New
    51
    The person who received the Nobel Prize for inventing a way to transmit information to the OVS-Internet knows what he is saying. In addition, he is a communist who did not betray his views. Respect, and honor!
    1. 210ox
      210ox 19 November 2017 07: 54 New
      31
      Undoubtedly this is so. In the 80s in Smolensk, the Iskra software company already made a PC. This plant was first destroyed there when the USSR collapsed .. Our advanced science and production was a bone in the throat of our enemies. And they destroyed it. .
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      The person who received the Nobel Prize for inventing a way to transmit information to the OVS-Internet knows what he is saying. In addition, he is a communist who did not betray his views. Respect, and honor!
      1. bk316
        bk316 19 November 2017 12: 44 New
        +8
        Our advanced science and production was a bone in the throat of our enemies. And they destroyed it ..

        In electronics, the USSR has always lagged behind in computers as well.


        How sad it is (or maybe if you look from today the opposite is joyful)
        but the Israeli is right. According to the computers of the USSR and what is most interesting, the Russian Federation has always lagged behind and behind. Moreover, the gap is all the time more or less the same 10 years + - 5 years.
        It would be necessary to write an article for the illiterate (like hlavaty), yes lazy.

        And you don’t need to talk about BESM-6 to the one who worked on it, porting the OS-360 to the one who implemented it and the Soviet SS-BIS supercomputers to the one who developed them, that is, to me.
      2. Lelek
        Lelek 20 November 2017 19: 40 New
        0
        Quote: 210ox
        .Our advanced science and production was a bone in the throat of our enemies. And they destroyed it ..


        Hey. Yes, in the 90s our sciences and industries will not be envied in Honduras either. Especially, with regards to IT-technologies and production on their foundation. And today, Alferov is right, we are many years behind the West. Nothing, let's rise. Well, for a smile:
    2. hamkan
      hamkan 19 November 2017 10: 32 New
      17
      If my grandmother had --- this is a famous proverb and everyone knows her.
      You can blame on the 90th, 1917, the war and the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
      Only in the 90s no one had iPhones. And in 2000- there were none. and even in 2005, and the first appeared in 2007.
      About this, as Jaurès does not remember.
      In electronics, the USSR has always lagged behind in computers as well.
      And Alferov’s statement is nothing more than propaganda before the election, he probably still hopes that the commies will win the election
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 19 November 2017 10: 59 New
        15
        Quote: hamkan
        hopes that commies will win the election

        Better watch how your kibbutzniks won the election.
        1. hamkan
          hamkan 19 November 2017 11: 52 New
          +4
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: hamkan
          hopes that commies will win the election

          Better watch how your kibbutzniks won the election.

          We have a party of kibbutzniks? May I have a closer look?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 19 November 2017 11: 55 New
            +7
            You better know what you have there. What, they can’t go to the polls? Or just don't want to? And I do not know.
            1. hamkan
              hamkan 19 November 2017 13: 30 New
              +3
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              You better know what you have there

              of course, therefore, before writing
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Better take a look at how your kibbutzniks would not be elected

              learn the materiel
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              What, they can’t go to the polls? Or just don't want to? And I do not know.

              you can, like all citizens, they just do not have their own party, and why?
      2. svd-xnumx
        svd-xnumx 19 November 2017 11: 09 New
        11
        Only in the 90s no one had iPhones. And in 2000- there were none. and even in 2005, and the first appeared in 2007
        So he did not say that they would have appeared in the 90s, but that if it had not been for the destruction of enterprises producing electronics in those years, they could have made a breakthrough in the field of microelectronics.
        1. hamkan
          hamkan 19 November 2017 11: 52 New
          +6
          Quote: svd-xnumx
          Only in the 90s no one had iPhones. And in 2000- there were none. and even in 2005, and the first appeared in 2007
          So he did not say that they would have appeared in the 90s, but that if it had not been for the destruction of enterprises producing electronics in those years, they could have made a breakthrough in the field of microelectronics.

          Come on, as if we don’t know how it was with electronics in the USSR
        2. Krabik
          Krabik 20 November 2017 17: 41 New
          +2
          With electronics in the USSR it was as rotten as it is now in Russia.
      3. Hlavaty
        Hlavaty 19 November 2017 11: 30 New
        17
        Quote: hamkan
        In electronics, the USSR has always lagged behind in computers as well.

        Dear you are our chosen one! Do not judge what you do not understand. Read about BESM and MESM, about OGAS, about academicians Lebedev, Glushkov, Evreinov. You simply do not know the history of the development of computer technology, since you declare that the USSR ALWAYS lagged behind in computers.
        While the Politburo did not decide to develop an EU-based computer system based on the American IBM 360 / 370 system (which effectively closed its own developments of the USSR), the race in computers began to take shape in our favor.
        1. hamkan
          hamkan 19 November 2017 11: 57 New
          +9
          Quote: Hlavaty
          Dear you are our chosen one!

          I would like to call you dear God-bearer, but you are from Ukraine - therefore you are neither one nor the other
          Quote: Hlavaty
          Read about BESM and MESM, about OGAS, about academicians Lebedev, Glushkov, Evreinov. You simply do not know the history of the development of computer technology, since you declare that the USSR ALWAYS lagged behind a computer

          I served in a place where there were enough computers, but for some reason it was either IBM or NEC
          and the conversation is about 88.
          Quote: Hlavaty
          So far, the Politburo has not decided to develop an EU computer system based on the American IBM 360/370 system (which actually closed the USSR’s own developments

          there were no fools, they closed because they themselves could not do it, and all this by the way was until the 90s.
          Quote: Hlavaty
          the race in computers was beginning to take shape in our favor.

          Well, yes, to listen to all of you - that’s how the USSR was ahead of everyone in everything, but the CPSU decided to close it and start copying the sloppy staff - which (according to the stories of some storytellers) - was also stolen in the USSR.
          1. Hlavaty
            Hlavaty 19 November 2017 12: 43 New
            +9
            Quote: hamkan
            I served in a place where there were enough computers, but for some reason it was either IBM or NEC and the conversation is about 88

            Well, you’ve “burnt”. If your history of the development of computer technology begins in the year 88, then you simply do not know anything about it. No.
            But then with what aplomb you make statements! smile
          2. AB0877
            AB0877 19 November 2017 15: 19 New
            +3
            Probably still not NEC but DEC?
        2. Tsoy
          Tsoy 20 November 2017 06: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: Hlavaty
          While the Politburo did not decide to develop an EU-based computer system based on the American IBM 360 / 370 system (which effectively closed its own developments of the USSR), the race in computers began to take shape in our favor.


          You can still remember such a person as Pentkovsky. They say that it was in his honor that the Pentium was named after he immigrated and came to work at Intel. Lebedev was not lucky, because they say that copying IBM 360 / 370 was extended by Western companies. This threw his ideas aside, and in fact, he already had super scalars and solutions that were ahead of time.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 20 November 2017 10: 47 New
            0
            The superscalarity did not give a real development of computer technology and in particular processors. Although it is impossible not to admit that the search paths should and will be different. The question again is that by changing the function of a number from a variable to a constant, a scalar processor can perform not two tasks, but eight at once. I repeat once again that at the present level it is impossible to make a cardinal breakthrough in knowledge and applied solutions with one decision. The complex of interconnected phenomena and processes must be changed. The game is already underway, not by piece decisions, but by complex ones. And it is precisely the function of the constant value of the number that allows you to manipulate the sets of such complexes as the basis laid down in the method of working with big data. .
      4. Doliva63
        Doliva63 19 November 2017 12: 10 New
        15
        Quote: hamkan
        commies

        Do you miss the yellow star on your back, idiot?
      5. alekc73
        alekc73 19 November 2017 14: 07 New
        +5
        Leave the envy in silence. As long as Russia has bright heads, there is hope for a revival. It does not take forever to rule "effective managers." The future is with the creators.
        1. vik669
          vik669 19 November 2017 16: 28 New
          +1
          It doesn’t last forever to rule over “effective managers” - but not forever, but will anyone be able to rule whom after what?
          1. Krabik
            Krabik 20 November 2017 17: 45 New
            0
            After them their children will rule, so do not worry.
      6. avt
        avt 19 November 2017 14: 56 New
        12
        Quote: hamkan
        If my grandmother had --- this is a famous proverb and everyone knows her.
        You can blame on the 90th, 1917, the war and the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
        Only in the 90s no one had iPhones. And in 2000- there were none. and even in 2005, and the first appeared in 2007.
        About this, as Jaurès does not remember.
        In electronics, the USSR has always lagged behind in computers as well.
        And Alferov’s statement is nothing more than propaganda before the election, he probably still hopes that the commies will win the election

        GLONAS, GPS Chertok and his companions Gorbi still suggested doing. The creator of the Soviet mobile phone, or rather mobile communications, with his invention sunk into the technical department of the KGB under the heading. So if you don’t know the parts, it’s better to be silent, but also silently. in the USSR in Zelenograd, two Americans were created under Khrushchev, which they managed to take out after the betrayal of the liaison officer Abel / Fisher. It’s another matter who disposed of it and how.
        1. hamkan
          hamkan 19 November 2017 15: 02 New
          +6
          Quote: avt
          GLONAS, GPS Chertok and his companions Gorbi still suggested doing. The creator of the Soviet mobile phone, or rather mobile communications, along with his invention sunk into the technical department of the KGB under the bar. So if you don’t know the materiel, it’s better to be dumb, but just as loud to shut up

          as always, everything was - but no one knows where.
          So I’ll tell you - what didn’t reach the embodiment in the finished product –– costs nothing.
          I have a huge number of examples of talented loafers, drunk at the end of life and crying for the whole universe - like if not 1.2.3.4.5. etc. then he would have definitely got the Nobel Prize.
          And perseverance and work prevails.
          And not recognized from geniuses and savior - like dogs not cut.
          One must be proud of achievements, and not how they were blown away.
          Quote: avt
          Well, the "Silicon Valley", called Selikonova, was created in the USSR in Zelenograd by Khrushchev two Americans. They managed to take them out after the betrayal of the communications officer Abel / Fisher. Another matter is who and how disposed of all this.я

          how, how - yes, as always.
          Oranges do not grow on aspen.
          Skolkovo is an example for you.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Karen
            Karen 19 November 2017 15: 22 New
            14
            I'm interfering here ... it's about a cell phone
            http://www.kramola.info/vesti/rusy/russkie-mobiln
            iki-pjatidesjatyh-rjadovaja-sensacija-kosmichesko
            j-jery

            And I will definitely add about the development of Boris Babayan 1979. - The microprocessor from Zelenograd was twice as fast as Intel's in bit depth.

            All this was seen by the Jewish meritorians of the category of Yu.V. Andropov ...
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 19 November 2017 18: 53 New
              +2
              Quote: Karen
              .

              All this was seen by the Jewish meritorians of the category of Yu.V. Andropov ...

              You do not like Andropov for the elimination of the Dashnak terrorists who blew up Moscow in the 70?
              1. Karen
                Karen 19 November 2017 20: 02 New
                +4
                Quote: Aaron Zawi
                Quote: Karen
                .

                All this was seen by the Jewish meritorians of the category of Yu.V. Andropov ...

                You do not like Andropov for the elimination of the Dashnak terrorists who blew up Moscow in the 70?

                No, only for treason.
                Regarding the elimination of terrorists.
                I don't know if they blew up. I do not know their party affiliation.
                But I know for sure that the ARF was created and led by the Zionists, and during the years of the collapse of the USSR, the Dashnaks settled in a residential building where all the apartments belonged to the old Chekists.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 19 November 2017 20: 55 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Karen

                  No, only for treason.
                  Regarding the elimination of terrorists.
                  I don't know if they blew up. I do not know their party affiliation.
                  But I know for sure that the ARF was created and led by the Zionists, and during the years of the collapse of the USSR, the Dashnaks settled in a residential building where all the apartments belonged to the old Chekists.

                  T / e You do not know anything, but like all anti-Semites, you are ready to blame all your sins on others.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 19 November 2017 21: 26 New
                    +3
                    Specifically, I don’t know anything about the explosion in the Moscow metro ... Except for the last word of Zatikyan (with his statement that the USSR is a liquid state - I agree years before Stalin and after Brezhnev)
                    I know almost everything about ARF ... if I could find out about the connection with Zatikyan, now I don’t know there anyone I would believe one hundred percent.
                    The relationship of the Dashnaks with the liquid KGB of the USSR is unambiguous !!!
                    1. hamkan
                      hamkan 19 November 2017 21: 33 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Karen
                      Specifically, I don’t know anything about the explosion in the Moscow metro ... Except for the last word of Zatikyan (with his statement that the USSR is a liquid state - I agree years before Stalin and after Brezhnev)
                      I know almost everything about ARF ... if I could find out about the connection with Zatikyan, now I don’t know there anyone I would believe one hundred percent.

                      Armenia as part of the USSR was the only mono-republic in which the share of the indigenous population (i.e. Armenians) was 95%.
                      Nobody could get along with the Armenians at all. Having lived so long in Israel, I have not seen a single Jew from Armenia.
                      They did not live there, despite the fact that there was a huge Jewish community in neighboring Azerbaijan.
                      Karen, do not look for a black cat in the room, especially since she is not there.
                      Nobody ever got along with you and I (looking at your comments) - no questions --- why.
                      as there are no questions why Armenians outside Armenia live many times more than at home.
                      You can’t get along with your own, but as always, the Jews are to blame laughing
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 19 November 2017 21: 56 New
                        +2
                        And why on earth would other nationalities (except from the east) move here to settle on stony soil or swamps?
                        We have a lot of Jews living with many friends before.
                        Jewish physicists were attracted here due to the lack of anti-Semitism.
                        Recognized as one of the best of the XNUMXth century, the book was written by people living here. Ageev, "An affair with cocaine."
                      2. Mahma
                        Mahma 20 November 2017 13: 28 New
                        +1
                        We have a lot of Jews living, I used to be friends with many
                        The Nazis also once had
                        beckoned here
                        And now? When it became clear who you are?
                      3. Hlavaty
                        Hlavaty 20 November 2017 17: 48 New
                        +1
                        Quote: hamkan
                        Nobody ever got along with you

                        And you, like, an example of livability ??? laughing laughing wassat fellow
              2. Lex.
                Lex. 20 November 2017 19: 16 New
                +1
                You do not like Andropov for the elimination of the Dashnak terrorists who blew up Moscow in the 70?
                It’s not that the terrorists turned out to be Armenians in the duckweed.
            2. a.sirin
              a.sirin 19 November 2017 19: 47 New
              +3
              Why mobile phones in the USSR? Why does a Soviet person have all these capitalist gadgets?
              1. Karen
                Karen 19 November 2017 20: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: a.sirin
                Why mobile phones in the USSR? Why does a Soviet person have all these capitalist gadgets?

                Gold words!!!
                I remembered ... My Koresh, at the age of 26, became the director of an enterprise of a republican scale ... He somehow decided to get a government number for himself - PBXs with simple city numbers often junked then. And now our senior sidekick teaches his mind: "... are you out of your mind? !! You will always be in the zone of calling the minister. Do you need it?" :)
                1. hamkan
                  hamkan 19 November 2017 21: 35 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Karen
                  Gold words!!!
                  I remembered ... My Koresh at the age of 26 became the director of an enterprise of a republican scale

                  For a bribe, of course. at 26 then laughing
                  Quote: Karen
                  And now our senior sidekick teaches his mind: "... are you out of your mind? !! You will always be in the zone of calling the minister. Do you need it?"

                  All right, for the dibs to get a position and at the same time not to do nichrome.
                  Wellcome to Armenia.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 19 November 2017 22: 03 New
                    +1
                    26 years is not enough. If I remember correctly, Sergey Mergelyan at 21 became a doctor of sciences, and at 24 - a member of the Academy of Sciences. :)
                    1. hamkan
                      hamkan 20 November 2017 06: 43 New
                      0
                      Quote: Karen
                      26 years is not enough. If I remember correctly, Sergey Mergelyan at 21 became a doctor of sciences, and at 24 - a member of the Academy of Sciences. :)

                      21 year doctor, 24 member correspondent.
                      Medina is resting laughing
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 20 November 2017 09: 16 New
                        +2
                        Have you added poison to mother's milk for envy / anger in adulthood?
                      2. Hlavaty
                        Hlavaty 20 November 2017 23: 33 New
                        +1
                        Quote: hamkan
                        21 year doctor, 24 member correspondent.
                        Medina is resting

                        And on Wikipedia, religion does not allow checking?
                        Or just practicing in hutspe?
                      3. Astapan
                        Astapan 23 November 2017 19: 58 New
                        0
                        This was not in our rotten time. If there is interest, see the Wikipedia article (so adored by all non-Soviet).
            3. Tsoy
              Tsoy 20 November 2017 06: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Karen
              Boris Babayan 1979.


              He has been working with Intel for a long time in Intel. And often takes their premium for new technical solutions.
          3. avt
            avt 19 November 2017 16: 00 New
            +6
            Quote: hamkan
            as always, everything was - but no one knows where.

            Azochen Way! Everything is already known, but only those who want to know what is known and where.
            Quote: hamkan
            So I’ll tell you - what didn’t reach the embodiment in the finished product –– costs nothing.

            Oh, how smart we are! bully For that
            Quote: hamkan
            not worth anything

            the Japanese, for example, paid the same currency, namely, for the right to delve into the VNIIGPE rejected fund.
            Quote: Karen
            And I will definitely add about the development of Boris Babayan 1979. - The microprocessor from Zelenograd was twice as fast as Intel's in bit depth.

            In particular, in Armenia, I don’t know who lobbied in the State Planning Commission, they poured money on the launch of a completely factory to manufacture all kinds of electronics, including household ones. We bought imported equipment, modern at that time ....... and here is the building, then Karabakh, Sumgait and further on the list.
            Quote: hamkan
            Skolkovo is an example for you.

            bully Azochenway! This is from another opera, not Alferov’s, it’s to the Gaidar’s witnesses, who are waiting for the coming of the holy Investment. It’s past the box office, that is, the article.
            1. Karen
              Karen 19 November 2017 16: 31 New
              +2
              The enterprise for the production of robotics - "Mars" - purchased equipment worth 350 million. sterling pounds. Yours were taken for 55 million. greens a decade ago.
              1. avt
                avt 19 November 2017 18: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: Karen
                Yours were taken for 55 million. greens a decade ago.

                bully Rather, your vtyuhali for the repayment of a debt. But somehow I didn’t hear about the fact that production was stirring there. request
                1. Karen
                  Karen 19 November 2017 19: 01 New
                  +1
                  Anyone who lives well in Russia wants to have a bad life in Armenia ... yours took it just so that the foreigners would not work there.
                  ... So I remember that 20 years ago Vazgen Sargsyan even planned to build a tractor assembly plant from prison ... and today's grandmothers are interested in today's “our” rogues to contribute to the budget of the Hazaras who oversee them.
            2. Karen
              Karen 19 November 2017 19: 36 New
              0
              avt

              About lobbying in the State Planning Commission ...
              Once, in the 77th, the delegation here was made of white stone ... A senior official accompanied my sidekick ... According to him, the official didn’t believe that they sell alcohol freely, got out of the car and bought several bottles for inspection. The next morning, he didn’t go to the escort ... After hours of alarm, the situation became clear: they called from the sobering-up station and reported the incident ... it turned out that the official took a large dose on his chest in the evening and went out to the city to fool around. But at that time it wasn’t customary for us to walk around the city drunk ... but they ordered us from Moscow a little earlier and we opened the detox, we did not take our word for it ... and only the guests were there. After the incident with the Gosplanist, this office was covered up, they worked only two months.
          4. Setrac
            Setrac 19 November 2017 21: 14 New
            +1
            Quote: hamkan
            So I’ll tell you - what didn’t reach the embodiment in the finished product –– costs nothing.

            A dystopian statement, a question of embodiment - it is a question of the availability of resources, which the United States had many times more than the USSR, and stupid Americans could embody everything that the Russians invented in iron, but there were not enough resources for implementation.
            Quote: hamkan
            And not recognized from geniuses and savior - like dogs not cut.

            We are not talking about kitchen inventors of perpetual motion machines, we are talking about working prototypes embodied in metal and ready for production.
            1. hamkan
              hamkan 19 November 2017 21: 23 New
              +2
              Quote: Setrac
              abusive statement, the question of embodiment is a question of availability US resources were many times greaterthan the USSR, and stupid americanYou could embody everything that the Russians invented in iron

              If you are so smart, why are you so poor?

              Quote: Setrac
              It’s not about kitchen inventors of perpetual motion machines, it’s about working prototypes embodied in metal and ready for production

              I, I am still life.
              type prototypes laughing
              PROTOTYPES laughing laughing
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 19 November 2017 21: 25 New
                +2
                Quote: hamkan
                If you are so smart, why are you so poor?

                Why did you decide that we are poor?
                Explain by what parameter?
                1. Krabik
                  Krabik 20 November 2017 17: 54 New
                  0
                  Unemployed blacks in the US live better than I do in Moscow ...
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 20 November 2017 18: 34 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Krabik
                    Unemployed blacks in the US live better than I do in Moscow ...

                    You are mistaken, unless of course you yourself are not unemployed ... Negro.
                    1. Krabik
                      Krabik 20 November 2017 22: 35 New
                      0
                      Previously, it was possible to hang noodles on the ears of the population and not to steam, but now there is the Internet in which there are a lot of videos from the same without working blacks in the USA.

                      And I don’t need to watch a video about our life.

                      You are probably offended that you live worse than former slaves?
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 21 November 2017 09: 57 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Krabik
                        You are probably offended that you live worse than former slaves?

                        By what parameters did you determine that I live worse, you certainly will not say? Actually, I had no doubt that you could not confirm your words.
      7. Ehanatone
        Ehanatone 23 November 2017 12: 50 New
        -1
        hamkan
        In your nickname THREE last beech trees are clearly superfluous
    3. SHURUM -BURUM
      SHURUM -BURUM 19 November 2017 10: 34 New
      +4
      I can add that in Kazan, in 1995, they installed a tower and launched a cellular communication station based on Hughes equipment, as I was told, under the intention of subsequently mastering the production of their cell phones in Kazan. At one of the radio engineering enterprises of Kazan, the second floor of a large new workshop building was completely vacated under this business. Since there were practically no repeaters besides the tower at that time, those Amersky cell phones resembled a beer mug, because they had a pen on the side, and there was also a powerful mobile option for a car that allowed you to talk directly to Kazan from the Novocheboksarskaya Dam. Already at that time the intentions were correct.
      1. stas
        stas 19 November 2017 11: 16 New
        +4
        Alferov’s discovery was used in the USSR on Mig-25 R, for transmitting aerial photographs by radio signal back in the 70 years.
    4. stas
      stas 19 November 2017 11: 07 New
      10
      Putin and EBN were also communists, and became ardent capitalists.
      When they acted honestly, not betraying their beliefs.
      Why are those communists who could push their elbows and lie became the elite of capitalist Russia.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 19 November 2017 11: 18 New
        +9
        Quote: stas
        Why are those communists who could push their elbows and lie became the elite of capitalist Russia.

        Because they were never communists.
        Cardboard in the form of a membership card does not speak about their internal state, but the internal one, opened in 90, turning into what you saw in 90, grinning at wild capitalism.
        1. stas
          stas 19 November 2017 11: 21 New
          +7
          Who lied once lies the rest of his life. Now the former pseudo-communists lie on 86% of the confidence of the people.
          Although polls are not worth believing, the maid is trying to please the Tsar, a former member of the CPSU.
      2. Maki Avellevich
        Maki Avellevich 19 November 2017 14: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: stas
        Putin and EBN were also communists, and became ardent capitalists.


        this happened because Russia lost in confronting certain forces and was subordinated to them with the help of control over the Central Bank.

        Yesterday I decided to check whether the Bank of Israel is subordinate (only it can make money to the world and Israel) to the government.
        it turned out not.
        private shop, like you, and in the United States and almost everyone.
        who steers i ask? where sovereignty?
    5. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 19 November 2017 12: 24 New
      +8
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      The person who received the Nobel Prize for inventing a way to transmit information to the OVS-Internet knows what he is saying. In addition, he is a communist who did not betray his views. Respect, and honor!

      I completely agree with you, Alferov is the greatest Soviet and world scientist!
    6. siberalt
      siberalt 19 November 2017 12: 28 New
      +6
      It is difficult to disagree with Alferov. But we can’t release iPhones now. The point is not an invention or invention, but the production technology, which we still do not have. And what’s in the “voenka” reaches the consumer in about 20 years. What can we say if we buy the same sewing needles, nails, hacksaws and hammers in China, not to mention such difficulties as shaving or boiling water for domestic tea, in addition to the fact that someone has survived from the USSR at home? lol
      1. Harry.km
        Harry.km 22 November 2017 00: 34 New
        0
        Do not believe it, but a couple of months ago I bought a domestic boiler of the Dagestan plant KEMZ ... I will not put a photo, however, the night. But it is made in comparison with Chinese even better by eye. On the box is the PCT and GOST mark of 88 years. The situation is being corrected, but slowly and not the fact that it will be fixed, as we would like.
    7. iouris
      iouris 22 November 2017 11: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      he is a communist who did not betray his views.

      Views can and should be changed as a person develops and knowledge of the world. The communist is the bearer of scientific ideology.
      Remarks on the merits of the title. And access to what content would provide a "Soviet iPhone"? Who needed an iPhone in the USSR?
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 19 November 2017 08: 05 New
    11
    It is difficult to disagree with Alferov; everything is said in the case ...
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 19 November 2017 09: 06 New
      20
      Judging by the statements of the brilliant physicist Alferov, our country will not have a bright future! Insufficient money is spent on science; no serious scientific work is being drawn for the Nobel Prize. The situation, in the foreseeable future, in terms of this, will not change in any way. Accordingly, Russia, eating the remnants of the Soviet backlog, will slowly but surely slip into the margins of technological development.
      Vote further for Putin. Stability is the main thing! I just want to remind you that the most stable existence happens only in a cemetery.
      A wonderful, very frank article. Such articles need to be stored somewhere in their memory.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 19 November 2017 11: 14 New
        +1
        Vote further for Putin.
        ... You propose voting for Sobchak, Navalny, Yavlinsky, Misha 2% Kasyanov .. Some thieves have left the government, others have come, new ones with the old are torn .. The new left have been compromised by cooperation with liberals, the old left have long been compromised .. White came robbing ... the red ones will not come .. Where should the farmer go ..?.
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 19 November 2017 12: 59 New
          +3
          Quote: parusnik
          You propose voting for Sobchak, Navalny, Yavlinsky, Misha 2% Kasyanov
          I propose voting for the Communist Party, of which Zhores Alferov is a member? Or do you always have a bang, or Putin or liberals, a third is not given ?!
          Quote: parusnik
          Some thieves have left power, others have come, new along with the old are torn .. The new left have been compromised by cooperation with the liberals, the old left have long been compromised ..
          Well, of course, and only the sun of the nation Putin with his team of thieves from the cooperative "Lake" - the choice of Russia. Kapets, what have we come to ...
          1. parusnik
            parusnik 19 November 2017 15: 18 New
            +6
            You know, if the Communist Party was headed by J. Alferov and the like, he would have voted .. so no .. I wanted to say everything, I wrote in my comment .. There is no word of laudation about the current government .. If there is, quote .. .As for the elections .. For 25 years, in my opinion, we have been faced with a choice, to choose the lesser of the evils ... There is no respect for the Communist Party of Zyuganov, since then, when "Mr. - Comrade - Barin" stated that : Communist Party of the Social Democratic Party and asked that they would accept the Socialist Party .. The composition of the party is possible and communist, but this does not apply to leadership .. I read Zyuganov’s work, there is nothing communist, left-wing populist phraseology, sprinkled with cheers-patriotism, with Orthodox shade ...
      2. bk316
        bk316 20 November 2017 13: 20 New
        +3
        Vote further for Putin

        So the "brilliant physicist Alferov" himself votes for the GDP.
    2. dauria
      dauria 19 November 2017 10: 40 New
      +4
      Yes, it ended unsuccessfully due to the betrayal of our party elite, but the experiment itself was successful!


      The diagnosis is accurate. Only now put at autopsy. How to make an unsaleable party elite, not all physicists in the world will answer.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 19 November 2017 10: 48 New
        +8
        Quote: dauria
        How to make an unsaleable party elite, not all physicists in the world will answer.

        China answers how. Stalin clearly showed how.
        Some people scare someone, but the choice is not great, or as it is now, everything is sold and everything is scammed, those who instead of honestly and honestly carry out their duties steal their duties as if they had only a couple of minutes left to live by force ..
        1. dauria
          dauria 19 November 2017 11: 36 New
          +2
          China answers how. Stalin clearly showed how.


          Well, where is the country and the system built by Stalin now? And China - give time. And they will have Vekselberg and Potanin. I will get tired of the affiliate program to pretend that "everyone is equal." Not this, so the next generation of Partigenigenoss
          The most difficult and impossible task of the “triune task” was “educating a new person”. Silverfish and altruist will not climb up the heads. But how one who crawls will behave is a big question.
          1. Greenwood
            Greenwood 19 November 2017 13: 02 New
            +2
            Quote: dauria
            I will get tired of the affiliate program to pretend that "everyone is equal." Not this, so the next generation of Partigenigenoss
            In the Chinese Communist Party, even now, many members combine party work with business. So it makes sense to change something.
  3. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 19 November 2017 08: 15 New
    14
    This truth is not told by this Alferov! He is with the Communists, then obviously now wrong! What did he attack capitalism? Capitalism is a lifesaver for the modern leadership of the country — he’s like, he will do everything according to the “laws of the market” —adjust everything and put it in its place in the economy and the leadership doesn’t have to do anything — you can play summits, Olympics, "good uncle "in Syria or elsewhere, to forgive billions of debts to someone and everything for the sake of his native capitalism, for the" future "profits and mythical preferences ... Why did he" run into "Chubais? Not an order. Alferov simply does not know anything. Yesterday, one person here lucidly explained to us that all the oligarchs are such “scouts” who carry out the secret mission of “pretending to be super-rich” and quietly finance our economy through offshore companies. So, there’s nothing for the commie to touch the honest "red" KGB name, he is on a mission and it is very difficult for him now to bear this heavy burden .... wink
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 19 November 2017 10: 46 New
      +7
      Monster_Fat
    2. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 19 November 2017 11: 10 New
      10
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      the leadership doesn’t need anything — you can play summits, Olympics, the “good uncle” in Syria or elsewhere, forgive billions of debts to someone and everything for the sake of his native capitalism, for the “future” profits and mythical preferences ...

      The word "populism" is clearly about you. Trade Mark, Practical wink
  4. bandabas
    bandabas 19 November 2017 08: 21 New
    11
    The fact of the matter is that then money was invested in specialists and the development of scientific and technological production. And now in "nanotechnology", that is, in banal laundering and theft. And as a result, "There is no money. But you hold on."
  5. APASUS
    APASUS 19 November 2017 08: 23 New
    +4
    . If not for the 90s, iPhones and iPads would now be released here, and not in the United States.

    Well, they don’t do all this in the USA, they collect it all in China. But that’s not the point.
    Let me disagree with such a respected person and express my opinion
    China also did not immediately become a technological giant, it went on for many years of technology development. First, millet was stupidly copied, and now they are moving to the next level of development. But they have been investing resources in this industry for years. And what is happening with us?
    Thanks to Kudrinsky economic policy, the country does not invest at all in the development of new sectors of the economy. We buy American treasuries
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 19 November 2017 09: 01 New
      +5
      In the USA they invent it all, but in China they collect it.
    2. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 19 November 2017 09: 40 New
      +4
      "China also did not immediately become a technology giant"
      The top elite in China simply put all the technologies. Factories. .Ability to become a world leader ... and there it is a matter of cheap labor .good environmental conditions and the wise policies of the ruling CCP and its leaders
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 19 November 2017 18: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: To be or not to be
        The world’s top leaders just put it on China and they gave it all.

        Just different rates everywhere!
        Our salary is now lower than in China or, for example, the world’s top leadership has set Ukraine, the same rate has been placed on the Baltic states.
    3. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 19 November 2017 11: 56 New
      +6
      Quote: APASUS
      Let me disagree with such a respected person and express my opinion

      Quote: APASUS
      Thanks to Kudrinsky economic policy, the country does not invest at all in the development of new sectors of the economy. We buy American treasuries

      I still do not understand what you do not agree with Alferov? request
      1. APASUS
        APASUS 19 November 2017 17: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Stroporez
        I still do not understand what you do not agree with Alferov

        The problem is not the 90s, the problem, the problem in economic policy, the declaration that it is necessary to abandon oil dependence is already sore! But things are still there. As long as the state first and foremost does not turn to face the manufacturer, no iPhones should be collected for another 200 years
  6. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 19 November 2017 08: 24 New
    +9
    Zhores Alferov

    A person who on a subconscious level wants to believe.
    1. bk316
      bk316 20 November 2017 13: 22 New
      +4
      Why on the subconscious, everything that he says is checked. He is a scientist, real, not sugar.
  7. Nix1986
    Nix1986 19 November 2017 08: 27 New
    +4
    I respect him as a man and a scientist, but in my opinion he is not quite right. Almost always, any complex problem is actually simple, we just build a bunch of new questions ourselves with our “if”, “not recognizing ourselves something,” and the problem becomes really complicated. What prevented, starting from the 2000s, having extra profits from the sale of oil to invest this money in diversifying the economy ?! The simple answer is frames. Someone made a detailed development plan with targets, a budget for this case, those responsible for this case, bodies that monitor the anti-corruption component ?! No, all that was was an imitation, and the dibs were sawed, and the sawmills were still free (I won’t say who, we already know them perfectly). So the answer is simple - the one who should have done this did not, because he did not need it.
  8. Gardamir
    Gardamir 19 November 2017 08: 30 New
    +5
    This interview once again shows that power is greedy fools. Not taxes from the people must be torn and invested in science. Science is a bottomless barrel, trade in technology is much more profitable than robbing your own country.
  9. Herculesic
    Herculesic 19 November 2017 08: 47 New
    +1
    It seems that our economy can both be saved and killed only by at least a continental war! Otherwise, we will quickly become a third world country.
  10. midshipman
    midshipman 19 November 2017 09: 10 New
    15
    The article by academician Alferov raised many problems that need to be addressed for the development of the country. I defended my doctoral dissertation at 38 years old. But at the same time, there was Ch. Designer of many types of weapons and military equipment and deputy. Head of Research Institute-33. The son defended his doctorate at age 30, but in economics. In 1978, I was transferred to Moscow to head the 6th Main Directorate of the MCI of the USSR. For the period from 1978 to 1988, under my leadership, microelectronics was created in the MCI of the USSR. Airborne complexes decreased by weight and volume by an order of magnitude. Nominated in the RAS after the collapse of the USSR, failed. Academicians Bunkin B.V., Savin A.I., Semenikhin V.S., Efremov V.P. supported me. Not enough 3 votes. The son was nominated for the branch of "Economics" was not enough 4 votes.
    I agree with Alferov no one should be invited from abroad. You can bring up your scientists. Just consider what kind of support they have with us? 2016, China has more than 1 million patents, the United States also has 1 million, and Russia 30 thousand! For one invention, in 1971 I was able to buy a 3-room apartment in Leningrad (cooperative). And how are inventors supported now in the Russian Federation?
    There are many problems, but they are all solvable. Only they should be decided by professionals. I have the honor.
    1. AB0877
      AB0877 19 November 2017 15: 57 New
      +4
      “For the period from 1978 to 1988, microelectronics was created under my leadership in the MCI of the USSR. On-board complexes decreased by weight and volume by an order of magnitude."
      MCI has never been involved in microelectronics (in the sense of creating an elemental base), this was done by the MEI. I have worked enough in the structures of the MCI (NII-17, aka MNIIIP, now Vega) and am well versed in the issue. It is very curious if you can name at least one airborne (air or space based) complex, the weight or volume of which has decreased by an order of magnitude?
      And yet - in the USSR there was practically no domestic elemental base of microelectronics, 90% was "stripped" of bourgeois counterparts by layer-by-layer copying of crystals. It is easy to verify this by looking through the Goryunov handbook and relevant foreign publications that were published 5-7-10 years earlier. Similarly, in computer technology, not counting BESM-6, Mir-2 and highly specialized complexes like "Elbrus", "Vector" for A-50, etc.
      So J. Alferov is very cunning when speaking about the possibility of developing / manufacturing iPhones in the USSR / Russia, forgetting (not knowing?) At least the fact that all the communication protocols were developed and patented by Qualcomm, there’s no need to talk about domestic switching technology - she is simply not there.
      1. Karen
        Karen 19 November 2017 16: 08 New
        +4
        If you are not aware of everything produced in the MCI, then you do not need to be so pathetic ... And in Yerevan microcircuits were produced in the divisions of the MCI.
        And in terms of the quality of the manufactured line in the Union, if the developments were originally their own, then they often exceeded the performance of capitalists and ahead of the years.
        1. AB0877
          AB0877 19 November 2017 16: 32 New
          +1
          All right.
          1. Please name the Yerevan enterprise MCI and the nomenclature (series) of manufactured microcircuits.
          2. I would be grateful if you indicate which domestic developments (series) exceeded and were ahead of the capitalists (indicate series) for years?
          Thanks in advance for the answers.
          1. Karen
            Karen 19 November 2017 17: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: AB0877
            All right.
            1. Please name the Yerevan enterprise MCI and the nomenclature (series) of manufactured microcircuits.
            2. I would be grateful if you indicate which domestic developments (series) exceeded and were ahead of the capitalists (indicate series) for years?
            Thanks in advance for the answers.

            "Thank you in advance" - so I'm not too lazy to answer? Okay, unsubscribe ...
            1. YernIIIMM. He was a member of the MCI of the USSR. The chip manufacturing workshop was definitely there. I don’t know anything about nomenclature.
            Midshipman. A young mathematician worked there ... worked so hard that he did not have enough time even to write a candidate ... but he is for 2000r. solved mathematical problems for academicians.
            2. Series with leading characteristics are enough enough ... not to recall where and who laid out their list for doubters, I’ll point out only one fact: a / s on the type of TOC organization was received somewhere in 1988, and the parameters there exceed the bourgeois ones , for example, in terms of slew rate, - 8000 V / μs - a record at that time.
      2. midshipman
        midshipman 19 November 2017 17: 23 New
        +6
        Mr. AB0877, I will answer your questions.
        In NII-33, at my direction, a microelectronics building was built (before Zelenograd). They released the board. complex "Radical" (navigation, inst. landing, air traffic control, between airplane. navigation). These figures are 15 times lighter and in size compared to RSBN-5S, SOD-57, 5U15K. Your Leaders Ivanov V.P., Brukhansky I.A. everyone knew that.
        Frequency standards on own. microelectronics LNIRTI (for space). Then the same building was built in Kazan (KNIIFI Mastyukov I.Sh.).
        We made microcircuits, our crystals, sital substrates, etc.
        And in Yerevan they released their chips for computing. technicians (Semerjyan M.A., Narinyan A.A.).
        Therefore, Alferov is right, we could release iPhones on our own if Jews from the United States and our Jews did not enter into a conspiracy. I have the honor.
        1. hamkan
          hamkan 19 November 2017 20: 13 New
          +3
          Quote: midshipman
          Therefore, Alferov is right, we could release iPhones on our own if Jews from the United States and our Jews would not have entered into a conspiracy ..

          Alferov (by the way) the same Jew laughing
          1. Operator
            Operator 19 November 2017 21: 42 New
            +4
            It's about Jewish politicians

            Jewish scientists, writers, actors, clowns, etc. - normal people.
            1. Lex.
              Lex. 20 November 2017 19: 26 New
              0
              Operator Yesterday, 21: 42 ↑
              New
              It's about Jewish politicians

              Jewish scientists, writers, actors, clowns, etc. - normal people.
              And what about politicians? In Belarus, prime ministers were Jews than bad politicians, by the way, Andropov, too, Primakov, for example
              1. Operator
                Operator 20 November 2017 19: 44 New
                0
                Andropov, Primakov, Medvedev - there are exceptions to each rule.
                1. Lex.
                  Lex. 20 November 2017 19: 56 New
                  0
                  Medvedev is not a Jew
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 20 November 2017 20: 02 New
                    0
                    Sorry - did not admit laughing
  11. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 19 November 2017 09: 11 New
    14
    Dear Zhores Ivanovich! To be honest, you yourself are an indicator of the successes of socialism. And there is absolutely no other figure for the successes of capitalism. Capitalism is undoubtedly anti-human, and neoliberal capitalism is anti-human in a cube. The current government leads Russia to the abyss, and current capitalism leads all of humanity to the abyss.
  12. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 19 November 2017 09: 16 New
    11
    Zhores Alferov is right, absolutely right: it is necessary to change the economic model, only then will scientific and technological progress become possible. The current model is aimed at generating profit and incomes are appropriately distributed: those who have withdrawn more funds are the one and the most efficient employee. In such a system, the state is not capable of developing, strengthening, at best only a one-time demonstration of power. Science, which advances technological progress, has a place in the margins in this system, for capital owners need this minute profit and they rush to promoted innovations that are far from perfect, but greed does not understand this, not the right level. And science is a prospect, look: only in the 50s were we able to evaluate the scientific achievements of the 60-2000s. And as a result, today those who get these developments are getting richer, taking advantage of the stupidity of the reformers of the 90s, however they did not serve and do not serve the country today - these are servants of the West. And it is also correctly said about the relevant ministries: these organizations were interested in scientific developments, they must be returned. Industry leaders must know production, problems, prospects. It is quite obvious that the institution of “effective” managers ruins the country, but they extract money, but this is a means to strengthen the West, and in the country: “there is no money, but you hold on”, “the government does not have money to pay pensions, it is necessary to raise the retirement age " etc. We must not fit into the international economy as a cash cow, making the country and people a victim of business sharks, but create our own efficient production aimed at meeting the needs of the country and people, become invulnerable to any external forces, only then the state will become strong. And here without science, no way.
    1. Maki Avellevich
      Maki Avellevich 19 November 2017 15: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: olimpiada15
      Zhores Alferov is right, absolutely right: it is necessary to change the economic model, only then will scientific and technological progress become possible.


      in order to change the economic model it is necessary to have full sovereignty in your country, it is not there and there will be no changes.
    2. hamkan
      hamkan 19 November 2017 15: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: olimpiada15
      Zhores Alferov is right, absolutely right: it is necessary to change the economic model, only then will scientific and technological progress become possible.

      Of course, it is necessary to change to capitalism.
  13. Stas157
    Stas157 19 November 2017 09: 25 New
    12
    It is significant that the most brilliant scientists of our planet, including the Western ones, recognize that socialism is the future! And the fact that the socialist experiment in Russia was a success, but ended as a result of the betrayal of the elites. This is a note, by the way, to the conflagrants advocating capitalism in Russia.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 19 November 2017 10: 25 New
      +4
      Quote: Stas157
      And the fact that the socialist experiment in Russia was a success, but ended as a result of the betrayal of the elites.

      Is there a guarantee that the second time building socialism, the elites will not betray again?
      In Russia, nevertheless, it’s time for the leadership to understand that without the fundamental science of the country, the country has no future, I propose making it a national idea to bring science in Russia to a leading place in the world.
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 19 November 2017 11: 04 New
        10
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Is there a guarantee that the second time building socialism, the elites will not betray again?

        Nobody can give such guarantees, but nonetheless, the future is still socialism. And it will be a pity if this happens not in our country.
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        I propose to make it a national idea to bring science in Russia to a leading position in the world.

        I am afraid I will not be able to advance science to a leading place in the world, and at the same time to keep oligarchs on its neck, together.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 19 November 2017 13: 17 New
          +3
          Quote: Stas157
          I am afraid I will not be able to advance science to a leading place in the world, and at the same time to keep oligarchs on its neck, together.

          Not all oligarchs are bad people and I dare to assume that if they are sure that officials will not steal money, they will participate in the development of Russian science.
          One of the non-poor people built a park in Krasnodar for his money.
          1. Hlavaty
            Hlavaty 19 November 2017 20: 42 New
            +1
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Not all oligarchs are bad people

            Your thought contradicts the definition of the word "oligarch"
            The oligarchy is a political regime in which power is concentrated in the hands of a relatively small group of citizens (for example, representatives of large monopolized capital) and rather serves their personal and group interests, not the interests of all citizens
            Simply put, oligarchs are merchants merged with power for embezzlement. And this merger takes place in one way - through corruption. That is, "one of the non-poor people built a park in Krasnodar" not for their money, but for money stolen from the people, country, society.
            And if such people really would like to "participate in the development of Russian science", then they would create their own private laboratory (institute) or take on support, a specific scientific team. And then a straight tear is welling up: how could millions figure out how to weld, but how to help scientists with brains is not enough ... wink
            1. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm 19 November 2017 23: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Hlavaty
              Oligarchy is a political regime in which power is concentrated in the hands of a relatively small group of citizens

              That is, a kind of Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.
              Quote: Hlavaty
              Simply put, oligarchs are merchants merged with power for embezzlement.

              The oligarchs left the elite of the USSR.
              In 1988, in the last year of the Moscow Financial Institute, Prokhorov joined the CPSU.
              Quote: Hlavaty
              That is, "one of the non-poor people built the park in Krasnodar" not for their money, but for the money stolen from the people, country, society.

              Sergey Galitsky? On the basis of what did you draw such a conclusion?
              Quote: Hlavaty
              And if such people really would like to "participate in the development of Russian science," they would create their own private laboratory

              So maybe they created, how do we know everything?
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 19 November 2017 23: 59 New
                +2
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                That is, a kind of Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.

                No, rather, Cosa Nostra, if you understand what it is about.
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                In 1988, in the last year of the Moscow Financial Institute, Prokhorov joined the CPSU.

                Yes, he entered, as he himself admitted from very selfish interests. And not for ideological reasons.
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                So maybe they created, how do we know everything?

                What, where and how? Not to be seen.
              2. Hlavaty
                Hlavaty 20 November 2017 17: 42 New
                0
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                That is, a kind of Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee.

                Not. The Politburo is pure power, and the oligarchy is the union of large private capital with power.
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                The oligarchs left the elite of the USSR.

                Where does this conclusion come from? Which of the oligarchs was a member of the Politburo, or at least the Secretary of the Regional Committee? Post-Soviet oligarchs have nothing to do with the elite of the USSR. These, for the most part, are some kind of muddy personalities with dark connections. None of them can clearly tell how he earned his first millions.
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                In 1988, in the last year of the Moscow Financial Institute, Prokhorov joined the CPSU.

                And after three years the CPSU was covered. About nothing.
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                Sergey Galitsky? On the basis of what did you draw such a conclusion?

                Even his cleaned biography on Wikipedia raises questions and doubts. For example: “In 1993, he graduated from the Faculty of Economics of Kuban State University with a degree in Economic and Social Planning. In 1994, he completed the career of a banker as deputy bank manager.” Over the year, a university graduate makes a fast career as deputy bank manager and, suddenly, “ends his career”. It somehow reminds me of flight. Remembering how banks worked in the dashing 90, such a career does not smell very good. Perhaps the famous fake memos from neighboring Chechnya. Maybe something else.
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                So maybe they created, how do we know everything?

                Have you heard about these? No. Perhaps clandestine laboratories? I believe ... wink
  14. 1536
    1536 19 November 2017 10: 01 New
    +8
    Nobody listens to scientists in our country. But loafers and villains listen to everything, give them to speak on the central channels, vote for them with millions of votes. And they are happy to try. 500 days they need to ruin Russia and the like. Only 500 days and even outstanding scientists will not save. Are we rabbits or something that constantly jump in the mouth of a boa constrictor? And if not rabbits, then it is necessary to repulse all this evil spirits, apple moths and bugs eager for power in the elections. Many have two or three citizenships or are waiting for them in warm countries. And we have one Motherland and one country. And it is very unfortunate that we have few people like this scientist, and deceivers and crooks a dime a dozen.
    1. Mahma
      Mahma 20 November 2017 13: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: 1536
      in our country no one listens
      But how can you listen to him, he is a Jew.
      1. Karen
        Karen 20 November 2017 15: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Mahma
        Quote: 1536
        in our country no one listens
        But how can you listen to him, he is a Jew.

        Having read the lines that there was a two hundred thousand Belarusian ethnic group in St. Petersburg, for some reason I thought that Grushevsky initially spoke similarly about Ukrainians. And after all, it was possible then to chop off a quarter from the Russian ethnic group.
        1. Mahma
          Mahma 20 November 2017 15: 53 New
          0
          Passing by the station, for some reason I thought that being at an incredible distance (almost in Europe), the scanty forces managed to chop off from the Big Dragon not only all ...
  15. Olgovich
    Olgovich 19 November 2017 10: 05 New
    +5
    Clever, brilliant man. But only in physics.
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 19 November 2017 10: 16 New
      11
      Quote: Olgovich
      Clever, brilliant man. But only in physics.

      Did you give him such an assessment? Usually it happens - ingenious in something, extends to everything else. What did Zhores Ivanovich disappoint you with?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 November 2017 11: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: Stas157
        Usually it happens - ingenious in something, extends to everything else.

        On the contrary.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 19 November 2017 11: 53 New
          +4
          Quote: Olgovich
          On the contrary.

          "ingenious" in a lie Olgovich, the rest is just as negative.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 November 2017 12: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: badens1111
            Quote: Olgovich
            On the contrary.

            "ingenious" in a lie Olgovich, the rest is just as negative.

            Comrade bades, focus ON THE ARTICLE, not on my humble person! hi
            Who is interested in your likes and dislikes? request lol
    2. badens1111
      badens1111 19 November 2017 10: 18 New
      +8
      Quote: Olgovich
      Clever, brilliant man

      Olgovich ..if a person is smart and brilliant, then he is in every way developed in other areas, and if he is poorly educated, he is ambitious like you, and even knows nothing, in topics in which you are forever
      "swim", then comparing you and Alferov is simply impossible
      , and even if you put a mark in school, it turns out that Alferov-5 and higher. school, and you, the eternal dvoechnik-repetitive, with a three-year period of rest in each class, and it’s not an option that by the 10th grade, you have mastered the high school curriculum.
      So do not meddle in the discussion, articles of a person whose level you simply never overpower.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 19 November 2017 11: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: badens1111
        in topics that you forever
        "swim"

        If I swim, then you are at the bottom for a long time! lol
        Quote: badens1111
        You’re an eternal second-year student with a second year in each class for three years and it’s not an option that by the 10th grade, you have mastered the high school curriculum.

        The assessment of the ignoramus and the loser is ridiculous. lol But only.
        Quote: badens1111
        So do not meddle in the discussion, articles of a person whose level you simply never overpower.

        Tips, comrade baden, leave it to yourself hi The tips are long over, and are you lost? lol
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 19 November 2017 11: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          Evaluation of the ignoramus and the loser is ridiculous

          Well, you put yourself a mark-ignoramus, a loser and ridiculous in his assessments of the brilliant scientist-J. Alferov.
          Quote: Olgovich
          The tips are long over, and are you lost?

          Ha..not me, but you are fornication in three pines, constantly using all kinds of nonsense in your pseudo-historical delights, from evil crafts to the outright lies of all kinds of different Solzhenitsins.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 19 November 2017 12: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: badens1111
            Well, you put yourself a mark-ignoramus, a loser and ridiculous in his assessments of the brilliant scientist-J. Alferov.

            belay lol
            Quote: badens1111
            .not me, but you fornication in three pines

            Not you, it's not you. Moreover, you are not alone: ​​Napoleons - SAME think that everyone around is "wandering" yes lol
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 19 November 2017 15: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              You are not alone: ​​Napoleons - SAME think that everyone around is "wandering"

              Oh .. what's new, Olgovich pulled Napoleon’s laurels on himself? And what did the unlucky resident of Elba end up with?
            2. Karen
              Karen 19 November 2017 20: 15 New
              +2
              Olgovich!
              Watching your Olympic calm, I remembered the caricature.
              ... A doctor strikes the patient’s knee with his medical hammer from the full scale. Glasses naturally fly out to the ceiling. And the doctor is surprised: "Well, the nerves !!!" :)
      2. Mahma
        Mahma 20 November 2017 13: 40 New
        0
        Quote: badens1111
        smart and brilliant, then he is in every way developed in other areas
        Well, Tchaikovsky was brilliant. In what other area is he noted?
        1. hamkan
          hamkan 20 November 2017 14: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Mahma
          Well, Tchaikovsky was brilliant. In what other area is he noted?

          in two hemispheres wassat
          1. Mahma
            Mahma 20 November 2017 15: 30 New
            0
            Quote: hamkan
            in two hemispheres
            laughing laughing laughing
    3. Greenwood
      Greenwood 19 November 2017 13: 08 New
      +7
      Quote: Olgovich
      But only in physics.
      Well, too ideological. He does not understand how it is: robbing his own country, withdrawing money to offshore companies, and keeping his family in London. I didn’t fit my “market” with my thinking.
  16. kig
    kig 19 November 2017 11: 40 New
    +7
    Yes, we would never have iPhones. At first, it was necessary to prove at the scientific council that the idea was worthwhile. Then push it into the work plan. Then all sorts of different people would have clung to it and would have begun to pull the blanket over themselves. In 10 years, this task, perhaps, would have been inserted into the 5-year plan. At this point, the Japanese would have stolen the idea by simply picking up drafts thrown into the ballot box with the resolution "The Soviet people do not need this."
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 19 November 2017 11: 56 New
      +9
      Quote: kig
      First ... Then ... Then ... In 10 years, this task, perhaps, would be inserted into the 5-year plan ... At this point, the Japanese would have stolen the idea ...

      I will support, perhaps.
      What he saw: in the 70s, a group of chemical scientists tried to introduce a new catalyst at the Grodno Chemical Plant (for the production of caprolactam, all useful).
      Roughly speaking, it was only necessary to replace one powder with another. The product yield increased ... as if not an order of magnitude.
      The attempt ended in nothing, exactly for the reasons you have stated.
      Chemists then hissed for a long time and spat request
      1. faiver
        faiver 19 November 2017 12: 44 New
        +1
        the question is - was the powder used to change the old one? Was the technology worked out? were all components in the right amount? Was the production of new powder cheaper at the cost of the former?
        not so simple... hi
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 19 November 2017 14: 50 New
          12
          Quote: faiver
          not so simple.

          Everything is not just "simple", but very simple.
          Powder - produced. Based on ordinary chromium.
          And since one of the chemical scientists was my dad, and I was already at a very conscious age (well, 14-15, will it?), I know all this maysa ... in detail, let’s say so.
          So - do not dirt (s)
  17. Doliva63
    Doliva63 19 November 2017 11: 57 New
    +9
    “Einstein’s conclusion: the economy must be planned, and the tools and means of production must be social.”
    But indeed, he was not! But where is it to our apologists for the free market and private property repeat
    And Comrade Alferov - my deepest respect!
    1. Mahma
      Mahma 20 November 2017 13: 43 New
      0
      Einstein did not approve of the totalitarian methods of building a socialist society observed in the USSR. In 1948, he published a letter to Soviet scientists, in which he pointed out such negative features of the Soviet system as the omnipotence of the bureaucracy, the tendency to turn the Soviet government into "a kind of church and brand as traitors and vile villains of everyone who does not belong to it"
  18. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 19 November 2017 12: 24 New
    +5
    Quote: hamkan
    as if we don’t know how it was with electronics in the USSR

    They made PCs in Smolensk, video cameras in Rostov, their own HDTV system, Elbrus processors - and much more. In the late 80s, the USSR made a technological breakthrough, but all of its results were sold for nothing to the West, and it made a breakthrough.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 19 November 2017 13: 29 New
      +2
      And because in the USSR new developments did not go to the masses, they were simply put on the shelf. In the 90s, all those who created them took it all off the shelf and went abroad with their developments and knowledge, knowing full well that in Russia they will remain unclaimed - for obvious reasons.
      1. 16112014nk
        16112014nk 19 November 2017 13: 43 New
        +2
        I do not agree with everything, but the truth is somewhere nearby.
        "Salvage won good."
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 19 November 2017 13: 43 New
        +3
        It's all about licensing. Soviet licenses were not recognized by capitalists because they are Soviet. There were patents in the USSR, but a patent cost 20 thousand rupees, for which the inventor or "discoverer" must pay the state. At that time, such an amount in value was equal to four Volga cars or two three-room cooperative apartments in Moscow. Simply put, 20 thousand were only "criminal" speculators, ministers - bribe takers, folk artists and thieves.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. alexsipin
          alexsipin 21 November 2017 19: 23 New
          0
          Quote: siberalt
          four cars "Volga"

          Volga cost 16 kilos "p.
          1. Karen
            Karen 22 November 2017 19: 39 New
            0
            Quote: alexsipin
            Quote: siberalt
            four cars "Volga"

            Volga cost 16 kilos "p.

            Actually, it cost 10 ... you could really buy for 25, and if the lottery with the winner, then for 35 kilos.
      3. Mahma
        Mahma 20 November 2017 13: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        took it all off the shelf and went abroad
        And who raised them like that, is it interesting?
  19. EvilLion
    EvilLion 19 November 2017 12: 50 New
    +2
    To do this, you would need the presence of the element base with which there was trouble, or the presence of a mass of cheap labor with the general harmlessness of the country for the United States, so that they could collect iPhones of their development here.
  20. MOSKVITYANIN
    MOSKVITYANIN 19 November 2017 14: 41 New
    +2
    Zhores Alferov: If it weren't for 90s, now iPhones would have been released here


    I completely agree with the words of the President of the Russian Federation, communism will someday be banned, like Nazism in Germany ...
    In the next election I will vote again for him
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 19 November 2017 14: 59 New
      0
      Father, padre, patron, patriotism - the essence of one root. In our country, the concept of "patriotism" sublimated into the concept of "love of the motherland," like Judaism in Orthodoxy. Based on the logic of the two previous premises, the categorical syllogism leads to Putin - there is patriotism and love for the motherland. And who doesn’t love their homeland? belay
      So we will vote for the Motherland and its Mother (father-padre in the current sense). Other is not given from all "variety of choice" winked
    2. badens1111
      badens1111 19 November 2017 15: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
      communism will someday be banned, like Nazism in Germany ...

      Well, well ... in Ruin, in 2014, they banned what they saw there?
      In Germany 30x, banned what they saw there?
      They saw the brown grin of the cannibal.
      Is that your ideal?
      1. MOSKVITYANIN
        MOSKVITYANIN 19 November 2017 15: 42 New
        +1
        badens1111 Is that your ideal?

        How do you know my ideal? I just want my children to have everything that their peers have in developed countries, the same applies to me .....
        Communists often blame the current government for not investing in structural transformations into “zero” ones, having high energy prices, but they are silent about the same missed opportunities in the 70’s ....
        Well, well ... in Ruin, in 2014, they banned what they saw there?
        In Germany 30x, banned what they saw there?

        A strange comparison in the former Ukrainian SSR, glory to God, there is no state fascist ideology, and the rates of economic development of both countries in the periods indicated by you, to put it mildly, differ ....
        And then to listen to you, then in the Russian Federation there can be either communist or fascist regimes, there is no other way ...
        1. siberalt
          siberalt 19 November 2017 16: 11 New
          +1
          If you couldn’t, then let your children develop the country. But wanting is not forbidden. laughing On a freebie you won’t last long. It is necessary to plow and plow. But, unfortunately, without the state alone, no one will pull. By the end of the year, one trillion rubles should be paid another tribute to the owner from America. That is the reality. hi
          1. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 19 November 2017 17: 45 New
            +1
            siberalt But wanting is not forbidden. laughing In a freebie you won’t last long. It is necessary to plow and plow.

            Has decided to be clever or something? What are you talking about ....
            So we will vote for the Motherland and its Mother (father-padre in the current sense). Other is not given from all "variety of choice"
        2. Oilpartizan
          Oilpartizan 19 November 2017 19: 04 New
          0
          And then to listen to you, then in the Russian Federation there can be either communist or fascist regimes, there is no other way ...


          It turns out historically that in Russia either the tsar or the party can rule on the throne of the tsar.
          The Communist Party is ideologically close to NDAP.
          The difference is only in the means and forces to achieve the ultimate goal.
          The communists relied on the world proletariat.
          The Nazis - in their own, Aryan.
          Both of them suffered a historical fiasco of their ideas.
          Liberals in Russia are aliens.
          Until now, they are accused of all the troubles of the transition post-communist period.
          Forgetting that they gave the opportunity to appear to such orthodoxes of the USSR as Putin. dogs related to the crisis
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 19 November 2017 19: 09 New
            +2
            Quote: Oilpartizan
            The Communist Party is ideologically close to NDAP.

            Brad.
            Quote: Oilpartizan
            Both of them suffered a historical fiasco of their ideas.

            The Nazis, yes, the Communists, no, the PRC is like a bone in your throat. Nazism is condemned, communism is not.
            Quote: Oilpartizan
            Liberals in Russia are aliens.
            Until now, they are accused of all the troubles of the transition post-communist period.

            And you need to kiss them in the gums, these thieves?
          2. Was mammoth
            Was mammoth 19 November 2017 19: 18 New
            +2
            Quote: Oilpartizan
            The Communist Party is ideologically close to NDAP.

            I’m curious, in your opinion, what is United Russia close to? Ile, your liberals.
            Not new. To ideologically compare the communists and fascists.
          3. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 19 November 2017 21: 27 New
            +1
            Oilpartizan Forgetting that they gave the opportunity to appear to such orthodoxes of the USSR as Putin. dogs related to the crisis

            Taki agree. Acre of the last paragraph. Putin, a former KGB officer of the USSR (screw), had nothing to do with the party nomenclature .....

            There is a suspicion that in 50 years the participants of this forum will blame anyone, but not themselves ....
        3. badens1111
          badens1111 19 November 2017 23: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
          Communists often blame the current government for not investing in structural transformations into “zero” ones, having high energy prices, but they are silent about the same missed opportunities in the 70s

          Mr. lied .. but would you like to explain to the venerable assembly where the money went from the contributions of the population. Thanks to your "successes"? From "honest" privatization?
          Where did the money go from the complete collapse of the military-industrial complex in 90? And where did the pennies from the unfulfilled work go to maintain the country's infrastructure, for the same 90?
          Are you really holding us all here for the absurdities who don’t understand that for 90 years, the country’s gigantic cynicism has committed robbery?
          Are you talking about 70..ah oh, well, missed opportunities, but would you tell the venerable readers of VO where your efficient machine tools from the factories that Chubais destroyed with the blessing of his evil assistants?
          And after reading your answers, I will tell you further where you will lead, your extremely ignorant belief in the identity of one with the other.
          1. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 20 November 2017 01: 27 New
            +2
            badens1111 Mr.

            I’m not your lord ....
            lying ..

            My credo, wretched not to lie, gee ....
            but would you like to explain to the venerable assembly where the money went from the contributions of the population. thanks to your "successes"?

            Why don’t you remember the numerous bonded loans of the Soviet Government, how many times did the Party and the Government "forgive" their debt to the population from the fact that it survived after numerous meat grinders organized by it in the form of "liberation" campaigns and the shooting of civilians recognized by foreign intelligence agents and enemies of the people?
            So Chubais and Co. had good teachers ..... In fairness, I must say that the Tsarist Government was not particularly in a hurry to pay off its obligations to the population ....
            From "fair" privatization "?

            I'm not an economist, but:
            According to Vladimir Mau, the main economic task of privatization was to increase the efficiency of the economy by creating the institution of private ownership of the means of production. While in certain areas of the economy (services, trade) this task was quickly solved, in industry and agriculture the desired effect was achieved much more slowly, largely due to the fact that, according to Mau, the privatized enterprises passed into the ownership of labor collectives, that is, under the control of and in the future and into ownership - of their directors. However, Anatoly Chubais himself later said that privatization was carried out with the sole purpose of preventing the Communists from coming to power. On the other hand, according to Vladimir Mau, privatization was carried out in an extremely difficult economic, financial and political environment: the confrontation of the Supreme Council of the Russian Federation with the President and the Government made it difficult to create a legal framework and institutional reforms; The government experienced strong lobbying pressure from the Supreme Council; at the time privatization began, the state was not able to effectively control its property, spontaneous privatization became a widespread phenomenon - taking control of enterprises by their directors, who were determined not to develop enterprises, but to quickly earn profits

            https://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/ruwiki/88867
            Remember how M. Thatcher closed mines in South Wales and gave businesses the opportunity to privatize public sector enterprises if it weren’t for the successful Falkland War and Britain’s beneficial entry into the Common Market, they would have hung it on a lantern ......
            Where did the money go from the complete collapse of the military-industrial complex in 90?

            The Union collapsed, the military-industrial complex collapsed as well, the USSR Armed Forces at the time of the collapse amounted to 4,5 million people, the RSFSR went to the number of 2,8 million people who were continuously monitored until the coming to power of the GDP, many enterprises duplicated each other, how many tank factories? As many as three wheeled tractor factories, apparently the BAZ did not ditch, because he apparently did his own segment of the tractor, which they did not do on the MZKT, etc. GTE in Yaroslavl and Ukraine, IL-76 in Tashkent and their repair in Ulyanovsk, etc. and since there were so many different types of weapons, we still don’t have to go far through the 1 / 4 centuries, three main tanks, of various modifications, three types of attack helicopters AA, etc.
            In all countries, after the collapse of the Union, there is a reduction in defense industry enterprises, as reduced aircraft and mobilization reserves drunk ....
            Take the example of Ukraine, they are only now beginning to feel a lack of spare parts, components and assemblies for B and VT, ammunition, etc. but the 1 / 4 centuries passed, just as there was no USSR.

            Robbery is always committed in the process of revolutions, and in 91 the DB had a rebar revolution, we were the first to experience it among all the countries of the Soviet Block, all the others already had flowers ....

            After the collapse of the USSR, only the Russian Federation, out of habit, continued to feed its neighbors and where are they now, look on the Internet at what prices the Russian energy was sold to the former republics, and we did not get anything in return ... no one went to support our industry, the task of the former republics - to continue to pump loans with us, and so that the Russian Federation creates a good environment for migrant workers from Central Asia (where in the 90s Russians were killed recently by local Soviet citizens) ...
    3. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 19 November 2017 15: 19 New
      +4
      Ah, I completely agree with J. Alferov. The President of Russia “forgot” that the Communists in the USSR gathered all the peoples, albeit in the form of republics, which after February 1917 rushed to jump from Russia, albeit in the form of republics.
      Vladimir Putin, of course, is a bright personality, but maybe you will recall his past election promises. And compare with the results.
      You can have a different attitude towards Zyuganov, but what are the results of anti-communists? Include Gorbachev’s success there. He also abandoned communist ideology in public. And his works on the collapse of the USSR were marked even in the USA by a medal.

      Putin, Medvedev, Chubais, Gref and others like them from the same berry field.
      1. Karen
        Karen 19 November 2017 15: 35 New
        +3
        Was mammoth
        [/ quote] Putin, Medvedev, Chubais, Gref and others like them from the same field of berries. [/ quote]
        Not from one field, but from one underground.
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 19 November 2017 15: 42 New
          +4
          Quote: Karen
          Not from one field, but from one underground.

          There was no underground. Anti-communism was carefully cultivated. The proof of this is the composition of the last Government of the USSR. Shevarnadze alone is worth it.
          1. Karen
            Karen 19 November 2017 15: 48 New
            +1
            I forgot to put quotes there.
            Shevardnadze is just a middle peasant there.
      2. gridasov
        gridasov 19 November 2017 16: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: There was a mammoth
        Vladimir Putin, of course, a bright personality, but
        The leader of such a large country as Russia, for the next decade, is better than Putin, no. But! The question is different, that he loses his potential due to a set of objective reasons that neither he himself nor anyone else will tell him. Ancient leaders not in vain surrounded themselves not only by novices, but also holy fools who did not hide the "truth." Or rather, not the truth, but polar views on established events. In addition, today is vividly showing that. what has not been started earlier and what has not borne fruit now, and the future will be further aggravated
        1. Was mammoth
          Was mammoth 19 November 2017 18: 57 New
          +3
          Quote: gridasov
          The leader of such a large country as Russia, for the next decade, is better than Putin, no.

          Q. Why?
          I have my own opinion.
          I do not believe that in our country there are no honest and talented patriots. And with the necessary knowledge to manage Russia. They are simply tightly shut off access to power. And, someone does not want to get into such dirt as politics. And as "holy fools" we have. Well, at least Zhirinovsky! Or a new presidential candidate, K. Sobchak. One clip.
          Putin cleared the field. And he will be the old president again. I’m sure he won’t go to any debates in the elections. And, therefore, there will be more billionaires in the country and they will be richer. The people have a different path. The people will live harder.
          Is there a guarantee that after Putin there will not be another Nikolai II? No.
          PS
          Quote: gridasov
          Russian developments may ....

          The time of self-talented talents has passed. We need targeted state support. Is she there? Read again the interview with J. Alferov.
          1. gridasov
            gridasov 19 November 2017 19: 06 New
            +1
            Real nuggets are not born in the bowels of academic institutions. They occur for other reasons that not many know about. Therefore, nuggets are born "themselves" and make their own cut, but they need the patronage of society, including the state. But not nuggets need protection, but society itself needs the knowledge and wisdom emanating from them.
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 19 November 2017 19: 32 New
            +2
            Quote: There was a mammoth
            Q. Why?

            In any business, there is a process of adaptation to new conditions of life and creativity, and there is also a productive period. So, in this productive period, a developed person has a "scent". Therefore, Putin is not better for the reason that he is a key link in a working system. (And do not confuse it with good or bad for subjective reasons) He is a key node in a well-functioning system, which is now opposed to the interests of real predators on the world stage. And it’s a completely different matter that Putin does not understand that a strong leader is good where all the governors are also very strong, and in the case of Russia, decentralization of power should be even more at a differentiated level of society. Therefore, it is necessary to develop Russia at the middle class level and do it very actively. I will not describe what and how it will pull further.
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 19 November 2017 19: 43 New
              0
              Quote: gridasov
              ... there is a "chuyka"

              "Chuyka" is good! But this does not give an answer what will happen in Russia when a man comes without a “sniff”. Ah, there will be a "byak." Thanks to the man with the Chuika.
              1. gridasov
                gridasov 19 November 2017 20: 15 New
                +1
                Okay ! A person who is in the subject and feels changes at the level of subconscious reaction is already half the success. Should I tell you that any specialist develops a certain motility for his actions, and therefore does not spend a lot of time comprehending certain events. This is called - "chuyka". I do not want to repeat myself, Mr. Putin is obviously the most experienced politician on the world stage. An army of analysts works for him, who are also in the working process of a debugged system. While there, Trump will settle in a new field and join the system, while Putin works and "feels the melody of the process." He is an expert in his field and we should not judge him because his actions are multi-pass and algorithmic. And the fact that sometimes it seems unreasonable to us in the future, many underestimate the final results. Therefore, in order to understand him and the work of his team, you must at least understand a lot of what is inaccessible to ordinary people.
    4. gridasov
      gridasov 19 November 2017 15: 35 New
      +3
      The question is not that. that the Americans overtook and used somewhere Russian developments and now produce high-tech products, ahead of us for decades. The question is that Russian developments can generally determine the fundamental direction of the development of new methods of mathematical analysis and coding methods for super-large data and the production of a fundamentally new element base, namely full-volume processors. And such a priority may stretch for centuries or more
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 19 November 2017 21: 30 New
        0
        Quote: gridasov
        The question is not that. that the Americans overtook and used somewhere Russian developments and now produce high-tech products, ahead of us for decades.

        But after all, this is utter crap - what did you write - the average temperature in the hospital, in the morgue is zero, in the ward plus forty, on average - comfortable 20 degrees Celsius. In each case, it is necessary to consider separately who overtook whom by how much.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 19 November 2017 21: 54 New
          0
          If you don’t see the big picture in terms of the prospects for its development and in the pace of development of one or another direction of the process, then I'm sorry, I can hide more dynamic processes from obviousness, and I will “feed” you with rhetoric about banalities, and at the right time I’ll just decide my questions. Therefore, in the age of dynamically changing events, while you will consider individual little things, others will already be far ahead. You just need to be able to move from particulars to general and vice versa. Therefore, it is extremely important that what I always say is to master the methods of big data analysis and understand the mathematical principles of constructing spatial interactions.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 19 November 2017 23: 01 New
            0
            Quote: gridasov
            If you do not see the big picture by levels

            If you don’t see the difference between the "big picture" and the average ", then your words about
            Quote: gridasov
            You just need to be able to move from particulars to general and vice versa.

            and so on - they generally lose their meaning, since you yourself don’t understand what you are writing about.
            1. CT-55_11-9009
              CT-55_11-9009 20 November 2017 17: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              generally lose their meaning, since you yourself do not understand what you are writing about.

              Are you still reading Gridasov’s comments? And you are a hero, however. He has a lot of ... uh ... nonscientific nonsense. There are many terms, the presentation style is scientific, but the point is “at the baseboard level”. Pull it out on a topic that you understand, and make sure.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 20 November 2017 18: 35 New
                0
                Quote: CT-55_11-9009
                Are you still reading Gridasov’s comments?

                Still reading? Yes, I go to this site for their sake.
    5. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 19 November 2017 15: 39 New
      0
      :-) It's good that you will vote for him again! I’m just afraid he’s very upset if at least you don’t vote for him! It is not very comfortable to feel completely alone ;-)
    6. Setrac
      Setrac 19 November 2017 21: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
      communism will someday be banned, like Nazism in Germany ...

      Any ideology is evil in its purest form.
  21. gridasov
    gridasov 19 November 2017 15: 11 New
    +3
    The question arises: what next? Obviously, you need to go into the third dimension, create bulk chips. Those who master this technology will make a leap forward and will be able to make the electronics of the future.
    And after all, we insist on this and insist that processors can and should be voluminous. Moreover, based not on the transmission of one consecutive impulse, but on the possibility of forming a complex of impulses, and all this is equivalent to the interactions of numbers of the natural series.
  22. TOR2
    TOR2 19 November 2017 15: 13 New
    +5
    But I’d better tell you about what I know well - about science. Look where we had it before and where now!
    And how did this affect the lives of Soviet people. Many achievements of Soviet science went into a series? If we are talking about electronics, it is not difficult to compare the civilian electronics of that time, ours and Western. The main point was missed, science for improving people's lives, and science itself is two different things. The science that exists for itself is Samoyed. In the end, she ate herself.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 19 November 2017 16: 02 New
      0
      Nothing is missing! All life is built, built as a mathematical model, that every new moment is a life event from a "clean slate". Moreover, it is not only consistent in causal relationships, but also algorithmic in changing these events. Therefore, it is important to take advantage of the present moment and the opportunities that open up.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 19 November 2017 18: 29 New
      +7
      Quote: TOR2
      And how did this affect the lives of Soviet people. Many achievements of Soviet science went into a series? If we are talking about electronics, it is not difficult to compare the civilian electronics of that time, ours and Western. The main point was missed, science for improving people's lives, and science itself is two different things. The science that exists for itself is Samoyed. In the end, she ate herself.

      Improvisation on the topic: TOROY, TOREE more? laughing It doesn’t. Since the late 80s, I’ve heard enough of such nonsense, and those who speak (and speak) are still using the fruits of that science and are not buzzing
      1. TOR2
        TOR2 19 November 2017 21: 38 New
        0
        Let me give some examples. I think many will be interested in what civilian segment these scientific fruits fell.
  23. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 19 November 2017 16: 46 New
    +3
    2017 year, the country is still being blamed on 90 ...
    We have always lagged behind the West in such technologies, since little time and money were allocated. On dreams and enthusiasm you will not fly away!
    We already had “our iPhone” - “Yotafon” was called. In it (Yotafone), there was a Chinese iron and American OS.
    Mmm, mmm, recently tablets were distributed in schools, like ours, domestic ones, but it turned out that foreign ones, only bought at an exorbitant price.
    That's when ours roll out a normal stone, on which it will be possible to play, install, etc., then I would still believe what they could.
    We unfortunately, more tongue chatter, and do not do business.
  24. candidate
    candidate 19 November 2017 17: 26 New
    0
    ... For projects, talent is collected
    They are then selected around the world.
    Well, if "we ourselves with a mustache"
    Then then, "the Lord is with you" ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 19 November 2017 17: 54 New
      +1
      And who determines that talent is really talent. If we say, for example, that the same can be explained to Alferov. At the same time, he must first be taught the analysis method based on the function of a constant value of a number, and only then show how to use volumetric transistors. And explain the essence of the process that email. magnetic momentum is expressed by the equivalent of properties between numbers. People who are not familiar with these fundamental principles do not at all get into the issue. . Therefore, you very accurately note that only the Lord determines the further development of events.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  25. Oilpartizan
    Oilpartizan 19 November 2017 17: 46 New
    +1
    our science ... made a breakthrough primarily because of its military applications.

    This phrase is the only true truth in all this communist nonsense from Alferov.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 19 November 2017 18: 12 New
      +3
      Obviously, you do not understand the difference between a “game of dice” with certain parameters of combinations of variations from the game where one more is entered into the initial parameters. So all the achievements of science and technology revolve around the initial fundamental achievements, and in order to make a breakthrough, new discoveries are necessary. And if that’s clear. that the Americans, the Russians, the Chinese and the Europeans all are sitting on the “same swing” with alternating success in excellence, which does not determine primacy to anyone.
    2. badens1111
      badens1111 19 November 2017 19: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: Oilpartizan
      our science ... made a breakthrough primarily because of its military applications.
      This phrase is the only worthwhile truth.

      So .. and in your blessed west, is the military-industrial complex not an engine of progress? Oh, and your limited knowledge .. the Internet, is that? A pure military development.
      Jeeps praised what it is? In its pure form, a utilitarian thing, designed for the military, adapted to civilian use and such examples to the masses with your liberal views, it’s simply unwise and ridiculous to talk against Alferov, a man of world renown.
  26. Oilpartizan
    Oilpartizan 19 November 2017 18: 52 New
    0
    How were the elections in Soviet times? Comrade Suslov came to the Academy and said: “Mstislav Vsevolodovich Keldysh wrote a statement asking him to be relieved of his duties as president. You choose who takes this position. But it seems to us that a good candidate is Anatoly Petrovich Alexandrov. We cannot insist, we simply express our opinion. ” And we chose Anatoly Petrovich, he was a wonderful president.


    For people like him, any president by order from above is wonderful.
    Power Rider.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 19 November 2017 19: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Oilpartizan
      . [/ I]


      For people like him, any president by order from above is wonderful.
      Power Rider.

      Well, well .. do you deign to tell the venerable community what you are famous for, in what scientific community you have “thundered” so as to condemn and discuss a world-famous scientist?
      The hatred of the liberal, to a person of different views, his eyes are stiff and makes poison come out?
  27. senima56
    senima56 19 November 2017 19: 13 New
    0
    "If not for the 90s ..." the USSR would have survived and much more ... "Thank you" to the Americans and Mikhuil Sergeyevich!
  28. Oilpartizan
    Oilpartizan 19 November 2017 19: 44 New
    0
    Yerevan Nairi plant made the first serial computers for all enterprises and educational institutions of the USSR.
    But on the performance cards, in the late 80s of the last century.
    The capitalists he refused this method of data entry to the beginning of the Cold War.
    Therefore, the great theoretician Alferov, by chance and “for company”, who fell into the cage of Nobel laureates, was greatly mistaken about iPhones in the USSR.
    According to Alferov himself, technological progress in the USSR is possible only in case of war.
    There was no war and no.
    And there is no iPhone.
    And will not be.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 19 November 2017 20: 24 New
      0
      I think . that you do not accurately assess the situation. Firstly, rhetorically, the war goes on constantly and never ends because everyone in the literal and figurative sense at any given time is fighting for their existence. And the fact that you should not underestimate the Americans is also a fact. Why would they have to copy Alferov or other discoveries that were put on public display. After all, they are also constantly in the process and any information is an impulse for their own discoveries. Therefore, it must be understood that opponents will not copy achievements, unless of course this concerns fundamental discoveries, then they generally buy or destroy everything in the bud. Moreover, Russians are surprisingly talented at the same time, but neither entrepreneurial nor far-sighted. They produce talents on favorable soils, and skillfully use their fruits and earn priorities, others
    2. Was mammoth
      Was mammoth 19 November 2017 20: 29 New
      +1
      Quote: Oilpartizan
      According to Alferov himself, technological progress in the USSR is possible only in case of war.

      This, when did he say that? And, the fact that the defense industry, and not only ours, the "locomotive of progress", is only in the manger they don’t know.
      Quote: Oilpartizan
      The capitalists he refused this method of data entry to the beginning of the Cold War.

      And all the capitalists already had supercomputers. Gee-s. Say, back in the mid-90s, BW monitors were not uncommon in France. Does this mean that they are "dumb"?
      And, did we fly into space using accounts? Yes? Have you seen such a device?
      I can confidently say that ALL enterprises of the USSR in the early 70s were equipped with EFBM. Ours. With an admixture of GDR-ovsky. I’m not talking about calculators, it was by itself. I know because I was engaged in repairing the VT from the mid-70s. By the way, all repair enterprises on BT were directly subordinate to the Committee in Moscow.
      The party must say, there would be an iPhone.
      1. Karen
        Karen 20 November 2017 14: 47 New
        0
        Bulgarian forgot, "Pravets" seems.
  29. high
    high 19 November 2017 21: 09 New
    0
    Quote: hamkan
    Quote: midshipman
    Therefore, Alferov is right, we could release iPhones on our own if Jews from the United States and our Jews would not have entered into a conspiracy ..

    Alferov (by the way) the same Jew laughing

    Why did you reveal the secret of Alferov?
    1. hamkan
      hamkan 19 November 2017 21: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: alta
      Quote: hamkan
      Quote: midshipman
      Therefore, Alferov is right, we could release iPhones on our own if Jews from the United States and our Jews would not have entered into a conspiracy ..

      Alferov (by the way) the same Jew laughing

      Why did you reveal the secret of Alferov?

      Well, that would be a midshipman, who has the honor in every comment,
      I recalled a little that the USSR was destroyed precisely by the nomenclature to which it was directly related.
      And not to blame Jews or Ukrainians in every comment - while claiming that he has the honor, in what place he has it - an interesting question.
      I don’t remember something in 1991 at the barricades?
      1. Karen
        Karen 20 November 2017 14: 45 New
        0
        Quote: hamkan
        I don’t remember something in 1991 at the barricades?

        And I, now, remember who was there at the barricades from my acquaintances ... Jews and the level of regional judges :)
  30. nezvaniy_gost
    nezvaniy_gost 19 November 2017 23: 21 New
    +1
    If not for the 90s, nobody would know about iPhones in the USSR.
    Well, maybe besides the offspring of the party farm nomenclature.))
    1. The comment was deleted.
  31. hamkan
    hamkan 20 November 2017 06: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Karen
    And why on earth would other nationalities (except from the east) move here to settle on stony soil or swamps?
    We have a lot of Jews living with many friends before.
    Jewish physicists were attracted here due to the lack of anti-Semitism.
    Recognized as one of the best of the XNUMXth century, the book was written by people living here. Ageev, "An affair with cocaine."

    Well, yes, I went to all the other republics, but in any way to Armenia.
    I especially liked about stones and swamps - in Israel, of course, meter black earth, well, let’s leave it.
    As if besides plowing on the ground, there is nothing more for the people (the visitor) to do.
    Yes, they just didn’t go, there were no visitors in Armenia, no one got along with you.
    Yes, and how?
    As for the Jews in Armenia - do not tell me - there were not or there were not units that did not change the overall picture, well, as for the absence of anti-Semitism - read your comments laughing
    Although the Russians in Armenia - the same was a minuscule.
    It is strange that you somehow ignored the Armenian Diaspora. So why do Armenians outside Armenia live an order of magnitude more than in Armenia itself and does this outcome continue? wink
    1. Karen
      Karen 20 November 2017 09: 59 New
      0
      Because of the chernozem in Israel, of course, Moses managed to bring the Jews to the only place in the BV where there is no oil ... but the main thing is to gain a foothold, and then convince all Arabs that they are descendants of the once-Islamized Jews. And before that, the wealth stolen by the Jews can also build communism in a single state ...
      ______

      For Jews in Armenia.
      Khariton, for example, put his own business here in parallel with physical research, Orlov / Ginzburg generally left an unkind memory ... Ch. YERAZ engineer, if I remember correctly, was a Riga Jew, and received money from Japan for his rational proposals. The first millionaire from the cooperation was a Jew with an Armenian surname, the first joint venture ... and they had in their safes unfilled contracts with the pigs with the seal.
      _____
      He wrote more than once about the reasons for the exodus of the population ...
  32. Nemesis
    Nemesis 20 November 2017 09: 21 New
    +3
    And now, who doesn’t let you do iPhones, instead of monuments to Yeltsin? Maybe the problem is not in the 90s, but in the one who is now in the Kremlin, the Senate and the Duma?
  33. Cop
    Cop 20 November 2017 12: 10 New
    +2
    It seems a respected person, but this writes ......
    ..... we took second place in the world in food production per capita!

    After these words, I still see a butcher shop somewhere in Uryupinsk, in which there are not forty varieties of sausages as in German, but only twenty ......
    1. bk316
      bk316 20 November 2017 13: 27 New
      +2
      And how does the number of varieties relate to the volume of production?
      You can immediately see you are not a physicist.
      1. Cop
        Cop 21 November 2017 01: 09 New
        +1
        And how does the number of varieties relate to the volume of production?

        The most direct, the larger the production, the more varieties .....
        You can immediately see you are not a physicist.

        Not a physicist, I'm an engineer ....
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  36. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 21 November 2017 15: 42 New
    0
    In order to realize all this, it is necessary to return socialism, but not completely. retaining small businesses and private owners. And take Martians from power and economy, such as Chubais ... Dreams, dreams ... hi
    1. w70
      w70 22 November 2017 07: 11 New
      0
      But is Finland not socialism?
      1. Cop
        Cop 22 November 2017 11: 40 New
        +1
        But is Finland not socialism?

        What is the basic principle of socialism? Correctly. Who does not work he eats! In Finland, that's right.