Military Review

Conquistadors and Aztecs: Ominous Signs (Part One)

173
This is my 700 article on the VO website. It was thought, let it be devoted to a topic that, in general, is interesting to everyone, namely, omens. But not ours, of course, who Pavel Globa interprets to us, but those that were once a long time ago, but they were, and people, just like today, paid attention to them ...


“If the reader asks:“ What have you done, all these conquistadors, in the New World? ”I will answer this way. First of all, we introduced Christianity here, freeing the country from the previous horrors: it is enough to point out that at least Meshiko sacrificed at least 2 500 people every year! That's what we changed! We have altered, in this connection, morals, and all life. ”
((Bernal Díaz del Castillo. Truthful история conquest of new spain. M .: Forum, 2000, p. 319)

Among the reasons that ruined the Aztec empire are the superiority of Europeans in armaments (and who would doubt it!), And the diseases they brought, that is, the use of "bacteriological weapons”, And this is also true, especially if we look at the number of dead, and hatred towards them by conquered tribes that automatically became allies of their“ white liberators ”, and even the personal qualities of the emperor Montezuma. But ... there was another very important circumstance: the heavenly and all sorts of other signs that foreshadowed, according to the Aztec, great calamities and misfortunes. In Yevgeny Permyak's novel “Humpback Bear” it is very faithfully shown how our dark, ignorant women in 1917 look for signs of misfortunes that have befallen the country in natural phenomena: “No wonder, babonka, so circling-purge!” And if that was the case the era of the telegraph and the first airplanes, then what could have been expected from the Aztec intimidated by the priests, for which it was raining, that the wind, that bloody dawn were phenomena of divine nature. And what could they have thought if the epoch of the reign of Montezuma was indeed accompanied by various sinister signs. Who could say what they foretell and what they say? Could they mean the return of the legendary Quetzalcoatl, who promised to return and punish his offenders? Flood, earthquakes, unprecedented drought - all this could also happen according to the will of the gods. Yes, and the signs were too many to not pay any attention to them.

Conquistadors and Aztecs: Ominous Signs (Part One)

Fragment of the Bourbon Codex with Spanish signatures, page 11. In the upper left corner - the goddess Tlasoloteotl. The days of the cycle are shown at the bottom of the page and the column on the right. The entire Bourbon Codex can be viewed on the website of the National Assembly of France, in the library of which it is stored. The original codex is located in the National Library of France in Paris. There is his Russian-language edition, made in Ukraine.

So, what are these ominous omens that undermined the very spirit of the Aztec people and deprived them of the will to win, and pointed to the coming of newcomers from across the sea, as the punishment of the gods? How do we know about them and what do we know about them?

First of all, let's call the source: these are the works of Christian missionaries who came to the New World after the conquistadors.

The first to report the "signs" that took place on the eve of the invasion was a certain Fry Thoribio de Benavente, nicknamed Motolinia. In his Memoirs (Memorials) created between 1531-1543, the head of 55, he told about strange phenomena that took place several years before the appearance of Cortes.


One of the pages of the Codex Tellerian-Remensis, with the image of the god Xipe Totek, dressed in a shirt of human skin.

First of all, people saw in the sky figures of warriors in unusual costumes, fighting with each other. Then the “angel” appeared to the prisoner, who should have been sacrificed, and encouraged him and promised that these sacrifices would very soon cease, as those who would rule this earth were already close. Then at night, on the eastern side of the sky, people saw a kind of glow, and then a column of smoke and flames.

Bernardino de Sahagun - the largest specialist in Aztec culture, who worked hard to preserve it, made a list of signs that spoke about the coming of Cortes and his people. In the first edition of his so-called “Madrid Codes” (1561-1565) or “The Universal History of New Spain Things”, he described a number of miracles that foreshadowed the seizure of Aztec powers by aliens. Of course, for us it all looks, to put it mildly, strange, but people of that time had a different psychology. De Sahagun wrote that the arrival of Europeans was predicted ... a ceiling beam. Then the cliffs and hills seemed to crumble to dust, which was clearly "not good." And most importantly, a dead and already buried woman seemed to have come to the Aztec ruler Montezuma (Motekuhsome) and told him that the power of the rulers of Mexico City would end with him, because those who are destined to enslave this land are on their way!

Then in his 12 book, The Conquest of New Spain, a list of eight more such signs was given.

The first sign was a glow that appeared in the east between 1508 and 1510 (or in 1511), which, like a dawn, illuminated everything. And the top of this fiery "pyramid" reached the very "middle of the sky".


One type of sacrifice: the tongue is pierced with something sharp and blood is sacrificed from it! "Code Teleleriano-Remensis".

Then there was a fire in the temple of the god Huitzilopochtli; then, without thunder, lightning struck the shiutekutli, the god of fire, into the temple, and it caught fire. The fourth sign of disaster was a comet with three tails, which appeared either during the day or at night, and moving across the sky towards the east, scattering sparks in all directions. For the fifth sign, the Aztecs considered an unexpected increase in the level of Lake Texcoco, a flooded part of Tenochtitlan. Well, and then the real miracles began. The goddess Siukoatl suddenly began to wander around the city and lament: "My children, I leave you," and the emperor Montezume was brought a bird that looked like a crane, but for some reason had a mirror on its head. Then this bird disappeared in some unknown place, but a new miracle was brought to him: freaks with two heads, who also seemed to have disappeared in the most magical way.


“Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 177. Captives captured ...

It is clear that Sahagun himself did not invent this, but simply wrote down what he was told by the old Indians from Tlatelolco, who was the satellite city of Tenochtitlan. But the Dominican Diego Durán, who also collected Indian folklore, received information from a descendant of the ruling house of the city of Texcoco, with whom the Aztecs had very difficult relations. Therefore, in his “History of the Indies of New Spain” (1572-1581), the prophecies are completely different.


“Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 185. In the year 11 Reed 1399 (this figure is Spanish) Kolouakan is ravaged.

In the book of Durán, the “bad” prophecies begin with a description of the statements of Necayalpilli, the ruler of Texcoco, who died in 1515 year. He had the fame of a wise man and a magician, although the city of Texcoco, once an equal partner of Tenochtitlan, did not play its previous role at the time of his death. So he told Montezuma about future troubles, most likely not without gloating:

"You should know - in a few years our cities will be destroyed and plundered, ourselves and our sons are killed, and our vassals are humiliated and enslaved."


“Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 197. Blood vomiting epidemic, 1450-1454

Realizing that Montezuma would not like such a prophecy and he would begin to doubt it, Nezahalpilli said he would be defeated (and more than once) if he went to war with Tlashkalteks, and then signs indicating the death of his state would appear in the sky.


“Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 201. in the Year of Seven (1460 on the European account) of knives there was an earthquake.

Naturally, Montezuma decided to check whether this is so and immediately began a war with the city of Tlaxcala. But, as Nesaalpilli predicted, his army was defeated, and soon a strange glow appeared on the eastern horizon, a comet appeared and a solar eclipse happened. He himself said that the last years of his life should be spent in peace and tranquility, and all wars with the surrounding tribes ceased.

And then suddenly a stone spoke, intended either for human sacrifice, or for the sculpture of Montezuma, and told the Aztecs that the authorities of their ruler would soon come to an end, and he himself would be punished for his pride, the desire to achieve what he was worshiped as a god. In confirmation of its correctness, this prophetic stone allowed itself to be brought only to the middle of the dam leading to Tenochtitlan, that is, the very place where later the meeting of Cortes and Montezuma occurred, where he fell into the water and drowned.


“Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 205. 1465 year - the beginning of human sacrifice.

Since the number of people who informed the emperor about their prophetic dreams, which promise him trouble, began to grow, well, simply rapidly, the emperor ordered all such dreamers, who predicted troubles, to lead to him, and after hearing them, put them in prison, where they starved them to death. The result of this was that now few people in the empire decided to tell anyone about their dreams.

The most comprehensive list of signs predicting the collapse of the empire of Montezuma is contained in the Indian Monarchy (21 - 1591) 1611-volume work of Juan de Torquemada (Torquemada), head of the Franciscan mission in New Spain. He and the works of his predecessors, missionaries studied, studied the surviving pre-Hispanic manuscripts of the Indians, and interviewed the descendants of the rulers Tlashkaly and Texcoco. At the same time, he was not limited to rewriting old books, but also added new and vivid details to the narration. Thus, the message of Sahagun about the revived dead woman he turned into the real history of the afterlife wanderings of the sister of Montezuma Papantzin, who met a winged young man in the next world, who informed her that the arrival of newcomers was coming, which would bring her true faith to the people, and afterlife flour. Moreover, it seems that Papancin did not die as a result, but lived, having made her prophecy, 21 for another year and was the first woman in Tlatelolko who accepted holy baptism.


“Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 229. In the year 3 Reed (1495 g.) There was an eclipse of the sun.

Torquemada apparently had a good imagination and wrote a lot of things, and then his works were copied many times by other missionaries and Spanish chroniclers who read this all for the truth, because "he was there." Over time, however, namely in the XVII century. In the writings of a number of Spaniards, for example, Antonio Herrera and Tordesillas appeared in the General History of Castilian Exploits on the Islands and the Continent of the Sea-Ocean (1601 - 1615). For example, the story of the sorcerers, who, being invited to the palace to Montezuma, cut off his arms and legs for fun and engrave them back. But, being mistrustful by nature, the emperor ordered to boil their limbs in boiling water, after which they, of course, did not grow, and then offended sorcerers predicted the death of his kingdom to Montezuma, and the water in the lake would turn into blood. The emperor glanced and yes — the water became blood, and the arms and legs of the unfortunate sorcerers were swimming in it. Interestingly, this story has parallels with the Mayan-Quiche popol Popol Vuh, where the focus also takes place with cutting and incrementing arms and legs.

The author of another story, Cervantes Salazar, simply wrote that one old priest of the god of war, Huitzilopochtli, before his death, had predicted the appearance of white people who would free the Indians from the yoke of the priests and lead them to the path of true faith. That is to say, all these legends were ... simply invented by the Spaniards in order to show that the death of the Indian kingdom was predetermined from above and the Spaniards did the work simply god-pleasing. And it would be very simple if only Spaniards would write stories about disastrous signs.

However, the chronicles about the pre-Hispanic history of Mexico were written not only by missionaries. They were written both by Indians and mestizos, and not by anyone, but by descendants of the rulers of cities such as Texcoco and Tlashkala. No doubt they knew the ancient traditions of their homeland. And some of them probably preserved ancient manuscripts. Despite this, their writings are strikingly reminiscent of missionary chronicles. However, their descriptions of signs coincide in many ways with Spanish. Again, the simplest reason was that the Indian “nobility” had already studied since childhood in the Catholic college of Santa Cruz de Tlatelolko, where young Indians were not only forced to cram Latin, but also gave them the beginnings of a medieval university education: that is, studied the works of the church fathers and even ... ancient philosophers. And their missionary teachers were also far from always stupid dogmatists, and they collected Mexican antiquities and often resorted to the services of their students. In other words, in the language of modernity, “the circle of these people was narrow,” therefore, among them, informational streams of similar content spread and opinions about them, too, naturally, were similar.


Here it is - it is the glow in the sky in the East remembered by everyone, which lasted for about 40 days. Page 239.

Nevertheless, almost all chroniclers, both “their own” and Spanish, mention the mysterious “night light” in the east, which is described by them either as “shining in the form of a cloud”, or as a “pyramid with tongues of flame”. In addition, the so-called codes - documents relating to the pre-Hispanic tradition of information transfer, made during the colonial period copies of ancient "books" of historical and ritual nature, written pictographic (pictorial) letter, often with explanatory drawings in Aztec or European languages. The most famous of these is the “Telleriano-Remensis Code”, compiled in the 60s. XVI century. And here it also speaks of an unusual radiance in the east, which the Indians perceived as a signal of the return of Quetzalcoatl:
"They say ... that it was very big and very bright, and that was located on the east side, and what came out of the earth and reached the heavens ... It was one of the miracles that they saw before the Christians came and thought that it was Quetzalcoatl that they expected. ”

An unusual phenomenon took place in 1509 year. In addition, other catastrophic phenomena are named in the code: solar eclipses, earthquakes, snowfalls, and also “miracles”: when stones suddenly “smoked” in 1512, so that “smoke reached the skies”, and then birds appeared without entrails, hard as a bone!

We also received comments on a number of Aztec documents subsequently lost, written in European languages. So, in the "History of Mexicans in their drawings," written in the 40-ies. XVI century., Also mentioned two signs from the list of Sahagun: about the fire in the temple and ... again about the lights in the sky. "Night Light" he dated 1511 year.

So that in 1508 and 1511. Some unusual astronomical phenomenon was indeed observed in the sky on Mexico, many documents confirm, both Indian and Spanish. For example, the mysterious "light from the east" is found in the memoirs of a soldier of the army of Cortes Bernal Díaz del Castillo: "The Mexican Indians said that shortly before we came to New Spain, they saw a sign in the sky the color of an average between scarlet and green, round, as the wheel of the carriage, and next to it from the side of the sun was seen another sign in the form of a long beam that connected with the scarlet, and Montezuma ... ordered to call the priests and the diviners to look at him and find out what this thing was never before unheard of Noah, and the priests asked for his idol meaning [Huizilpochtli] and received an answer that there would be great wars, and epidemics, and bloodshed. ”

In addition, in the year of the ascension of Montezuma to the throne, a severe drought began, then famine, which reached its apogee in 1505. The following year, according to all signs, the harvest was supposed to be good, but the fields were invaded by hordes of rodents, of which there were so many that they were driven away with torches.

That year - the 1 year of the Rabbit on the Aztec calendar - ended the cycle of 52 years, or the Aztec "century". But the first year of the previous cycle, also the 1-th Rabbit, was also hungry. So that the new "century" would not start under such adverse circumstances, Montezuma decided on an unprecedented step - he moved the celebration of "New Fire" to the next, 1507 year - 2-th Reed. But even here it was not without the darkest omens. At the very beginning of the year there was a solar eclipse, and then another earthquake. True, the Aztecs themselves for some reason did not consider this eclipse at the beginning of the calendar cycle a sign. Information about him is preserved only in the Codex Teleleriano-Remensis. Perhaps, in other documents, the message about the eclipse was simply “removed”? However, in the 1510 year (May 8), another eclipse happened, and in the 1504 year, a lightning bolt hit one of the temples. Is this not an event, considering it an unkind omen, then described Sahagun?

In the same year, returning from a campaign against Mixtecs, 1 800 Aztec warriors drowned in the river. Then in 1509, in Oaxaca, their troops, crossing over the highlands, were caught in a blizzard. Someone just froze, and someone was stoned and stoned trees. Thus, the number of "signs" every year of the reign of Montezuma grew as ... "snowball". And from here it was not at all far from the thought of a curse to which the gods subjected the power of the Aztecs.

Very funny, but historians of the XIX and the first half of the XX centuries. considered all these legends about the signs almost the absolute truth. Moreover, their opinion was such that the Aztecs were simply demoralized by all these sinister signs, and as a result, the conquistadors were not given a proper response from their side.

It was argued that what is explained by the action of natural causes - that took place, beyond any doubt. And all of the revived women there must be recognized as a result of ... stress or the action of hallucinogenic fungi, which, by the way, are so often mentioned in their comments and readers of articles on HE. For example, the two-headed freaks who were brought to the palace to Montezuma are just Siamese twins, who died, and then the resurrected woman stayed in a coma, and then came out of it. And the lake of blood seen by Montezuma is, again, a vision of a man who has eaten hallucinogens. In addition, before the Indians on the mainland should already have heard rumors about white aliens who appeared on the islands of the Caribbean.

Thus, in 1509, the expedition of Juan Diaz de Solis and Vicente Yáñez Pinson traveled off the coast of Yucatán, and two years later a boat with the sailors of a Spanish ship crashed was thrown onto the coast of the peninsula. Two of them - Gonzalo Guerrero and Jeronimo de Aguilar, after that survived until the appearance of Cortes in Mexico.

Naturally, Montezuma should have known from the merchants about what was happening in the neighboring Mayan country. Part of the inhabitants of the Antilles, too, could become a source of information about the newcomers, especially since having escaped to the mainland, they could tell a lot to the Aztecs.

However, in the 90-s. XX century. there was a lurch in the scientific environment in the opposite direction - there were scientists who not only denied that the legends about all these signs were based on real facts, but also generally doubted their Indian origin. All, they say, that this is written, there is nothing like the falsification of "bad" Spanish missionaries. Why, of course, there are recognizable Christian motifs in many of these signs. In a word, everything looks like, everything is recognizable, and therefore - invented for the glory of God. Well, the students and teachers from Santa Cruz College became the distributors of all these dramatic stories.


The war between the Spaniards and the Indians. 100 Spaniards and 400 Ueszinc killed. The Spaniards entered Meshiko. Page 249.

Then the Belgian scholar Michel Grolish suggested that all the legends about prophecies be divided into two large groups: first, the prophecies in the “Spanish” and “Aztec” spirits, that is, those where the angel is the person, or the dead woman prophesies. But the second - these are eight signs, which are reported by Sahagun, can also be divided into two cycles, because the Aztecs had an idea of ​​the dual nature of the world around them. The first four include: flickering light in the east, fires, lightning strikes, the appearance of a comet, that is, symbols of heaven. The last four are floods, a crying goddess, a bird with a mirror on her head, and various monsters — symbols of the earth!

If we carefully consider them, then it will be possible to conclude that the design of myths about signs and meaningful and textually happened after the completion of the conquest. In this case, it turns out that all these eight phenomena predict quite specific events. For example, a fire in a temple caused by a lightning strike is an attack by the Spaniards on Indian temples, a comet predicted death to Montezuma, and people’s vision of strange animals are horsemen, and nothing more!

However, in any case, the Indians hardly invented (and why should they have done this?) The nighttime glow in the east between 1508 and 1511. Meanwhile, it is mentioned by almost all sources. That is, it could be quite a real occurrence of nature. It could even be aurora, which at the latitude of Mexico City can sometimes happen in the event of a strong magnetic storm caused by an outbreak on the sun. And then there were frosts and crop failures, that is, the fact of the harmful influence of this celestial phenomenon was evident.


Montezuma and Marina meet with Emperor Montezuma. "History Tlashkaly."

That is, both crop failures, and frosts, followed by famine, floods, and certainly unusual phenomena in heaven, plus the rumors spread by the emperor's enemies about the evil god-cursed ruler, who is punished by the gods, and some strange rumors about strange bearded White people, dressed in unimaginable clothes, plowing the seas around Mexico on huge canoes, all this could not but influence people's consciousness and cause them fear for the fate of the world around them. The Aztecs clearly felt that something unknown threatened them. But what it is, was unknown to them and therefore - the scarecrow was even more. Well, then the Spaniards appeared with horses, cannons and muskets, and even the most skeptics recognized that “in all this there is something and this something - clearly the wrath of the gods! But it is pointless to fight against the wrath of the gods! ”
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 22 November 2017 07: 46
    17
    the emperor ordered all such dreamers who predicted trouble to bring him to him, and after hearing, put him in prison, where he starved them to death.
    .. There was no place for the prophets in this Fatherland either .. For the most part, the prophets in the world ended the same way ... With the 700th article, by the author ..
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 22 November 2017 08: 56
      12
      "But clairvoyants, as well as eyewitnesses
      In all ages people have been burned at the stake
      (V. Vysotsky)
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 22 November 2017 09: 01
        10
        In .... exactly .. good remembered these lines .. and did not remember ...
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 22 November 2017 09: 23
          +9
          In adolescence, when you grab everything on the fly, I listened to Vysotsky a lot. It is a pity there were no audio books then, maybe Eugene Onegin would know by heart. And now ... the brains are not the same request
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 22 November 2017 15: 41
          +2
          I congratulate you, Aleksei, become a classic, they are quoting you at Analytics. wink
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 22 November 2017 11: 12
        +7
        "We need to drink a triangle, for three you give it!" drinks fellow I am amazed at how his brain worked at all, that his poems are a fantasy flight. what
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 22 November 2017 15: 06
          +1
          Without diminishing the talent of Vladimir Semenovich, I want to say that for me Mayakovsky, Brodsky and Rosenbaum are the standard of poetry. What happens to words, rhymes, rhythm and size in their verses is incomprehensible to the mind !!! This is some kind of impressionism from literature!
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 22 November 2017 15: 48
            +3
            Anton .. you will scold me .. recourse because I practically didn’t read Brodsky .. I repent, I’m miserable .. there is nowhere more miserable .. crying But the Mayakovsky "On the death of Yesenin" at one time pierced to the bone. Who would have thought that he would end up like that too? what
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 22 November 2017 16: 21
              +2
              What suddenly "scold"?!? I won’t completely master War and Peace (Druon, by the way, turned up). And nothing, I live somehow with a defective horizons crying As for Brodsky, try it, for example, at least tonight, for example, Letters to a Roman Friend. By the way, Brodsky was very well versed in ancient culture.
          2. parusnik
            parusnik 22 November 2017 18: 57
            +3
            I join .. I still really love English poetry in the translation of S. Marshak ... There are problems with Leo Tolstoy too .. In the third grade extracurricular reading was asked Sevastopol stories ... I read with great difficulty ... And do not believe it, read Tolstoy more I couldn’t ... But the radio was broadcasting Literary readings .. War and Peace, Anna Karenina, Resurrection, Cossacks ... I listened with great pleasure and in full .. But now, re-reading the hand does not rise ... A. Chekhova He loved to listen and read ... Radio Star from 19.00 begins reading, a lot of interesting works .. the TV abandoned ...
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 22 November 2017 19: 50
              +4
              Marshak’s contribution as a translator (children's poetry is a separate issue) to Russian literature is priceless !!! What would we know about Kipling without Marshak!
              1. parusnik
                parusnik 22 November 2017 20: 43
                +4
                I would have noted B. Zakhoder ....
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 23 November 2017 11: 46
                  +2
                  it was Zakhoder who introduced us to Winnie the Pooh, if I am not mistaken what
  2. XII Legion
    XII Legion 22 November 2017 07: 51
    18
    Omens cannot be joked
    Poor Montezuma
    Authors - Happy Anniversary
    Thank you!
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 22 November 2017 11: 01
      15
      I will join in congratulations! hi
      The author mentioned Aguilar and Guerrero - the first Europeans who found themselves on the Yucatan, and in addition not of their own free will. Initially, they came to Maya, but the Aztecs heard about them for sure! Their story is very interesting. I will cite the Magidovichi as an example:
      "According to Diego Landa, the author of one of the most important primary sources on the history of the Spanish conquest of Central America, the first Spaniards who landed on the banks of the Yucatan were Jeronimo Aguilar and Gonzalo Guerrero. During the turmoil on the Isthmus of Panama due to enmity between Nikuesa and Balboa, in 1511, they accompanied the envoy of Balboa on a ship sent to Fr. Haiti with 20 thousand ducats of royal pyatins, a message to the governor about the events on the isthmus and a request for sending reinforcements and provisions. But not far from Jamaica, the ship ran into a reef or ran aground and died. 17 people, including the messenger, escaped without having time to take supplies with them, "in a boat without sails, with ... bad oars." They spent 13 days at sea, several people died of starvation. Finally they reached the shore of an unknown land, which turned out to be the country of the Mayan people - Yucatan, and fell into the hands of a cacique who sacrificed to his idols ... an envoy and four others and then arranged a feast from their bodies for their people. The rest he temporarily left alive, but exhausted with overwork. All Spaniards except Aguilar and Guerrero have died. Together, they managed to escape to another cacique, "the enemy of the first and more meek," who made them slaves. This cacique soon died, and his heir was even more merciful to the Spaniards. Guerrero, who had earlier learned to speak the Mayan language before Aguilar, left his lord in a coastal region in the east of Yucatán, near Chetumal Bay. The local leader entrusted him with "leadership in military affairs. Guerrero taught the Indians to fight, showed them how to build fortresses and bastions ... They married him to a very noble woman, from whom he had three children ... he tattooed his body, grew his hair and pierced his ears to wear earrings like the Indians, and probably became an idolater like them. ” Aguilar, however, refused to marry an Indian, either as he was preparing to become a priest, or had already taken the priesthood.
      Both Spaniards lived eight years in the country of the Mayan people, while in 1519 to Fr. Cozumel, off the northeast coast of the Yucatan, did not arrive on the way to Mexico with a flotilla of Hernando Cortes. Cozumel casiki told Cortes that two Spaniards live on the peninsula two days from the coast. Cortes sent a letter through the Indians to the captives, and ransom to their masters. The envoys returned with the news that one captive (Aguilar) made a ransom, was released and will come to the place designated by Cortes. Another captive (Guerrero) remained with the Indians. Aguilar spoke in detail about his adventures and confirmed that Guerrero refused to return to his own. Guerrero later fought on the side of the Indians for his new homeland, against the Spanish colonialists and died in battle with them. The Spanish slaves Aguilar and Guerrero were random and involuntary discoverers of the interior of the Yucatan. But Guerrero, who was well acquainted with both the large stretch of the Yucatan coast and the deep regions of the country, refused to share his knowledge with the conquerors, and Aguilar “... knew little, for he lived only in one place and saw little” (B . Diaz). A thorough acquaintance of the Spanish conquerors with Yucatan began only in 1517.
      "
      1. ruskih
        ruskih 22 November 2017 11: 47
        17
        I join in the congratulations! love
        If the article is about omens, then ... 700 in numerology 700 = 7 + 0 + 0 = 7. And 7 is a special number, amazing and mysterious, happy and magical, magical. You hold the key to new spaces.
        Congratulations on the 700th article! love
        Good luck and good luck to you! Interesting articles and books! love
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 22 November 2017 13: 34
          10
          And 7 is a special number, amazing and mysterious, happy and magical, magical.

          Strange .. I am the "menorah". And I always say that the amazing is near laughing
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 22 November 2017 15: 34
          +4
          Hello, Elena! And what does numerology say about the square root of minus one? wink love
          1. ruskih
            ruskih 22 November 2017 16: 39
            +5
            Ah, Anton wink decided to joke. I do not do repeat numerology and still try to answer.
            Unfortunately, maybe not, fellow but numerology does not deal with imaginary numbers, such as i or j (imaginary unit), in numerology there are no such numbers, and cannot be. Let them be engaged in mathematics and physics.
            Although sometimes they joke “Mathematics is an exact science, but not natural” love
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 22 November 2017 16: 49
              +2
              The longer I live with a professional mathematician (most of my knowledge in this area is her merit), the more I become convinced that a more inaccurate science than mathematics, well, art history is certain.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 22 November 2017 17: 51
                +1
                art history probably.

                history, especially when going to extremes, or into populism. Wherever you turn, that's what happened. "Either John the Terrible was a bearded cherub or a riotous madman." And the truth is somewhere in the middle, for a person is complex, angry and subject to passions. request
          2. Mikado
            Mikado 22 November 2017 21: 20
            +1
            about the square root of minus one?

            your spouse will be happy to explain to you that the root of minus one can only be an "odd" degree. love
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 23 November 2017 07: 25
              +2
              Don’t start, Nikolay, otherwise VikNik will come, and he will explain it popularly (thousands of 5 characters) for imaginary numbers.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 23 November 2017 14: 25
                0
                VikNick will come now, and he will explain it popularly (thousands by 5 characters) for imaginary numbers.

                и nobody will leave from the distribution of knowledge! am drinks
        3. kalibr
          22 November 2017 17: 01
          +2
          Thank! A kind word is also pleasant for a cat, and even more so for a person.
  3. ando_bor
    ando_bor 22 November 2017 09: 27
    +2
    The collapse of the Bronze Age took place there, if roughly translated into the language of the old world, the conquistadors only aggravated it.
    And if the Egyptian executions is almost a documentary description of the powerful climatic changes that caused it, then you still need to understand those prophecies, sweeping away mysticism and paying attention to unprecedented snowfall and unexpected crop failure. And I advise you not to make fun of the "circling-burgundy" there, not darkness and ignorance but a thousand-year experience.
    Itself in modern history came across when the aggravation of the sociopolitical situation is associated with catastrophic and atypical natural phenomena, and the first depends on the second.
  4. Some kind of compote
    Some kind of compote 22 November 2017 10: 46
    16
    Is everything a foregone conclusion?
    This is me about the signs
    What significance do they have in history
    Thanks to the author
    Fine good
  5. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 22 November 2017 11: 47
    16
    "This is my 700th article on the VO website" ////

    Congratulations! We are waiting for the 1000th! You have an interesting article written by
    easy living language.
  6. brn521
    brn521 22 November 2017 12: 44
    +1
    This is a feature of society and the state. If people are waiting for something and are afraid of something, then it goes without saying that they will accept natural phenomena as signs. And in the same way they will be related to rumors. Moreover, the more monstrous the lie will be in these rumors, the more willingly they will believe in it. The main thing is that this business accumulates like a snowball. Similar methods can be used by politicians in the struggle for power. To produce such dreamers and prophets in order to undermine existing foundations. So that ordinary people, who previously supported the current government, began to doubt and accept any changes as something completely natural.
    Most signs are the product of rumors. Rumors are an analogue of modern media in those days.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 22 November 2017 13: 29
      +8
      Most signs are the product of rumors. Rumors are an analogue of modern media in those days.

      I also wanted to say something similar, but was carried away by the fate of the two wretches on Yucatan, and the "thought is gone", as they say. But you have a much better idea. hi
      For some reason I have associations with a poisoned pen. what they say, this is such a "poisoned feather" in Aztec ... yes
  7. soldier
    soldier 22 November 2017 13: 36
    17
    At least it’s good that the conquistadors won, not some Arabs.
    Prophecies are worth believing. Sometimes.
    I join in the congratulations hi
    1. venaya
      venaya 22 November 2017 19: 46
      +2
      Quote: soldier
      At least it’s good that the conquistadors won, not some Arabs.

      Sorry, but did you understand what they wrote here? Even 4,5 millennia ago, our continent was attacked for the first time by numerous tribes just from Africa, and it was the Iberian Peninsula that was captured, and this continued and this continued for many subsequent millennia. The last capture of the Iberian Peninsula was made just already the Arabs! True, they did not succeed in capturing the territory of present-day Portugal, the mountainous terrain, and undermining the castles there are technically not realistic, hence the results. Yes, what happened there is not very well described, but the inhabitants of today's Spain are still familiar with the Arabic language. There are many examples, I will describe later. As an example, please recall one of our best hockey players Varlamov, he comes from Spain (the result of the civil war there). So when we talk about conquistadors, in this case it is advisable to remember that at the core they were people just of Arab origin, and it was they who carried out the seizure of the lands of the local tribes of the so-called "Indians". If you could only imagine what ancient and rich culture these people sometimes represented, and after all they were often different, with different cultural levels, you would hardly have managed to write such a thing. We, at present, are told too little about the former great culture of that continent, for example, in Latin America they spit on a story that they impose on them gringos (Yankees, etc.) and teach their own very different from what they often give us here! I now have no opportunity in a short post to describe the degree of colossal inaccuracy (or mistake) that you made with your post, somehow I will try to explain all this later.
      1. Curious
        Curious 22 November 2017 20: 32
        +4
        Sorry for the perseverance, but the hockey player was Kharlamov.
      2. soldier
        soldier 22 November 2017 20: 36
        16
        I perfectly understood what I wrote.
        I can repeat it.
        I am glad that Latin America is Christian and not some other.
        Just for that.
        1. venaya
          venaya 22 November 2017 22: 18
          +2
          Quote: soldier
          I perfectly understood what I wrote. .. I'm glad that Latin America - Christian not some other.

          Yes, of course, I myself deeply apologize for my mistake, for the incorrect spelling of the name of my beloved our domestic, internationally recognized hockey player Valery Borisovich ХArlamova, member of the IIHF Hall of Fame (since 1998), member of the NHL Hockey Hall of Fame (since 2005).
          Another thing about just the conquistadors - so they destroyed. According to preliminary estimates, more than 95% of the population of both American continents. They were mainly Spanish conquistadors, that is, they are truly Christians, but more often of Arab origin. Here is the tip: Why did you get that some of the destroyed American "Indians" were not Christians? And indeed, perhaps you consider true Christians to be only representatives of the new, Abrahamic branch of Christianity, which appeared according to documents only in the XNUMXth century, with the latest, highly corrected version of the Bible. And there were quite a few among the “Indians”, too, some of them, after all, converted to Christianity. What am I saying that they themselves did not have representatives of the early, even before Abrahamic Christianity. Research on this issue shows the presence of even swastikas in their temples, an indispensable attribute of many temples in early Christianity, especially in the Middle East. But, I think, you are not interested in such trifles, and what you wrote here earlier:
          Quote: soldier
          .. conquistadors conquered, not some Arabs.

          Or did it all seem to me? Take a closer look at your text, there you are clearly contrast Arabs-Christians! And this despite the fact that the conquistadors in most cases were Arabs and Christians "in one bottle." So I have serious doubts that you yourself understood what to write here. By the way, for reference: everything, absolutely all men on both continents belong to the same genus as the overwhelming number of men, as they now say in "Europe", that is, the genus (haplogroup) "P" (and its derivatives "R .. "," Q .. "). But the Arabs are really far from the American Indians and naturally “Europeans” (as a rule, Russ by origin), naturally, with the exception of both Spaniards and current Italians, they really are already more often of Arab descent, oh, come from Arabia. So excuse me, but I think that I was right here, but you weren’t, just don’t write your post carefully enough without double-checking.
          1. soldier
            soldier 23 November 2017 23: 17
            16
            venaya
            You are clearly opposing Christian Arabs!

            Venya, you are right - but I was hoping that they also understood me. After all, I know very well that many Arabs are Christians.
            But
            We do not have Europe, but we also have tolerance - especially against the background of creeping Islamization. Therefore, in order not to write “it’s good that the conquestadors, not the Arabs, won the conquestadors, not the Muslims, but Christians”, I wrote. By "Arabs" I meant opr. religion so to speak.
            Only.
            And for the calculations regarding haplogroups - hi
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 22 November 2017 20: 44
        +3
        Oh, and you would pile up in Texas for the "Yankees!" For "gringo", however, too, "guerillo" You are ours ...
        1. soldier
          soldier 22 November 2017 21: 42
          18
          laughing
          Europe is conquered. France is predicted to be a Muslim country by the year 40. What's so good
          And Christianity, if it grows, is at the expense of Latin America. Latin America is the last bastion of Christianity in the world.
          The guys are hot, pile on) Maybe I can have time to go to Cuba before they pile on - they like Russians there))
  8. Curious
    Curious 22 November 2017 14: 05
    14
    Hello, Vyacheslav Olegovich! I congratulate you on the seven hundredth anniversary and hope to discuss on the site your thousandth article.
    In order not to lose time, I propose to consider today's article the beginning of the cycle "Features of Thinking and Culture of a Medieval Man". Indeed, in our time very often there is no understanding that people of the Middle Ages perceived time and space in a completely different way and otherwise built causal relationships between events and phenomena, where the apocalyptic type of perception prevailed.
    Europe in this regard was no different from Mesoamerica. Book of Miracles is a characteristic phenomenon of sixteenth-century Europe. While still not very enlightened, people found explanations of outlandish phenomena in various mystics, and the emerging concern in society was fertile ground for apocalyptic forebodings.
    A few years ago in Germany they found an ancient manuscript that describes mysterious natural phenomena, disasters and signs. The Cologne publishing house Taschen issued a facsimile edition of this Book of Miracles, which appeared in the middle of the sixteenth century in the "free imperial city" of Augsburg.
    The Augsburg manuscript, the cover of which has not been preserved (and therefore its name is conditional), is a collection of about two hundred drawings, very skillfully made with gouache and watercolor, with brief explanations under them: which particular event described here is in question, and with a foreshadow of what - what kind of catastrophe, epidemic, war - it was. 167 original pages and 23 copies were preserved, which replaced the original pages in the XNUMXth century, when the Book of Miracles was re-bound.

    This is one of the pages - the painting “Flames from the Heavens”, which shows the events of 1009, when “the sun became dark and the moon became covered with blood, a great earthquake happened, and a gigantic burning torch fell from heaven with a terrible roar and whistle, similar to a fiery one the tower. " According to the inscription accompanying the picture, that year Italy and Germany suffered a terrible famine, and fewer people survived than died.
    So there will be no shortage of materials. There are also chronicles of Gregory of Tours and Paul Deacon, Old Russian annals, Chinese annals, etc. etc.
    I think that such a cycle will help many to perceive articles on the history of the Middle Ages in a completely different way.
    1. kalibr
      22 November 2017 17: 05
      +2
      Thanks for the congratulation! The topic is really very very interesting and should be considered. Thanks again!
  9. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 22 November 2017 15: 44
    +5
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, I sincerely congratulate you on the anniversary article!
    1. kalibr
      22 November 2017 17: 19
      +2
      And thank you!
  10. gorlumello
    gorlumello 22 November 2017 16: 23
    +7
    700 articles - considerable fertility. However, the semantic content of all (and each separately), to put it mildly, is lower than the plinth. But it piled up, piled up, and instead of a qualitative leap in the dialectical theory of the transition of quantity into quality, rejection of the accumulated one occurred. Apparently, due to the author’s disbelief in dialectical materialism. Simply put, fluid obratosushki occurred. And as luck would have it, with the anniversary. Everything would be fine - and much has been written, and there are pictures, but the trouble is: the article is plagiarism, sir!

    Absolute plagiarism (diluted by the ravings of the author) from an article by Tatyana Plikhnevich (this science fiction author specializes specifically in the culture of Mesoamerica). Actually, proof http://newrezume.org/news/2017-08-21-22218-XNUMX
    Plikhnevich writes about Mesoamerica for about a year since 2010.

    Neuv.avtor, you, of course, will immediately gush profusely with indignation and with the hysteria of verbosity inherent in bazaar women and graphomaniacs begin to scribble tons of text that you are generally all so genius and white, and there are all kinds of ... um ... unconventional sexualists ... But after reading many of your articles (from a purely medical interest - since the time of your Penza hack "TaM" and articles in M-Hobby in the 90s (the level of stupidity of these articles is unlimited), and since the publication of your opus about construction models of tanks and ships, your recommendations to modelers are generally some kind of satanic dances on academic works of the O. Kurti level), I can say one thing: you yourself do not know anything (in terms of models) and you don’t know a damn thing (neither in the history of XX century in no other period).

    Of course, this will not turn you away from graphomania (for this is a clinic), and the close-minded enthusiastic pugs (or you yourself from other accounts) will continue to praise the dubious result of your verbal incontinence (excuse me for repeating, but otherwise with physiological messages, your mediocre "word-making" cannot be compared), but if all those who sing praises to you think about it, but are you really versatile and erudite, or just idle talk, yap, plagiarist and a graphomaniac-cave anti-adviser who has survived from your mind - there are already a lot of them.

    For sim let me take my leave. Congratulations on your seven hundred ode to your mediocrity.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 22 November 2017 17: 08
      +2
      ".... and also the" earthworm "!" From branded so branded !!! Hardly typed !!! Do not see Shpakovsky pounds this month. Vyacheslav Olegovich, I recommend to hire a guard, a person can not stand you, but he is persistently interested in your work. This is psychiatry.
      1. kalibr
        22 November 2017 17: 30
        +2
        Yes, amazing. It is necessary to read so much, and books on children's technical creativity, and TaM (even from Penza) and articles in the M-Hobby - I already forgot about them, but he remembers everything. And everything, everything is bad. That's how it is! It turns out that hundreds of people ... missed and approved all this, but he alone saw everything and cut through. And the most interesting thing is that in the end there is one meaning - you are all ... but I am one smart, I see everything, I understand everything. It's funny!
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 22 November 2017 18: 31
          +3
          In-in, I say, this is psychiatry, in the sense of love-hate. This is your former student from a rural school. You set a deuce for him and ridiculed the class when it marked the battle of Cannes in the Sverdlovsk region. He was then persecuted by the Hanniball until the end of the school. Children's injuries are the most persistent. We need to be more careful with people, Vyacheslav Olegovich, it doesn’t work for you ... But we are alive, unlike the "Otteks", and far from always balanced.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 22 November 2017 18: 38
            +1
            He was then persecuted by the Hanniball until the end of the school.

            and then he watched The Silence of the Lambs, and realized that Hannibal was cool! laughing and cooler than Hannibal is only the Good Doctor drinks
          2. kalibr
            22 November 2017 18: 39
            +1
            It is unlikely that any of my rural students would have acquired an Israeli flag ...
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 22 November 2017 18: 41
              +1
              and shaw confuses you? maybe he is on vacation there? request
            2. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 22 November 2017 20: 30
              +2
              Yes Easy! "Fate plays a man, and a man plays the trumpet." He was a trumpeter in a school orchestra - he became a plumber in Haifa. We live in an era of change.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 22 November 2017 21: 21
                +2
                He was a trumpeter in a school orchestra - he became a plumber in Haifa. We live in an era of change.

                change .. pipes? belay
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 23 November 2017 02: 59
                  +2
                  They drag you by the tongue, Nikolai!?!? You live in the South-West, in the "valley of geysers", don’t call out .... "Winter is coming, gentlemen Targaryen"
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 23 November 2017 11: 48
                    +1
                    I saw worse. In the region, in small towns. Water leaks out from under the ground. It flow central pipes ... recourse
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 22 November 2017 23: 17
          +4
          kalibr:
          "idle talk, yap, a plagiarist and a graphomaniac-cave anti-Soviet survivor of the mind" /////

          You must remember this and knock it out in gold letters on the shield of the "battle of life."
          Once at school, I fraudulently (parodyed) a cute girl (girl, or rather) in a literature lesson. She became very angry and shouted loudly at the whole class:
          "And you .... last name ... - boor, d_u_rak and impudent !!!"
          Then, after many years, at a meeting of classmates, I went up to her and said: "thank you, I was scolded a lot in life, but no one called me that accurately and briefly!"
          1. kalibr
            23 November 2017 21: 27
            +2
            You are 100% right!
      2. Mikado
        Mikado 22 November 2017 17: 48
        +3
        I didn’t want to answer this figure (you never know, the moderator will delete, all the more, there’s something for that), but if you get involved .. there’s nothing to add. Caliber is right in the dictum:
        And the most interesting thing is that in the end there is one meaning - you are all ... but I am one smart, I see everything, I understand everything.

        "All homosexuals, and I D'artanyan!"
        and it’s not a pity that I wrote such a libel half a page. what
        I always thought: if you want someone else’s, offer your own. request
        1. kalibr
          22 November 2017 17: 52
          +2
          The funny thing is that on the "Native American theme" I just finished writing another material and he, too ... from various sources, I myself have never been among the Aztecs. And so I checked it on Advego and Advego showed 98% of the novelty. Few? Drive her level to 100%?
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 22 November 2017 18: 03
            +3
            up to 146, no less ride stop
            nearby enthusiastic pugs (or you yourself from other accounts)

            And finally, think up an alter-ego for yourself, without a scientific degree, but with obscene vocabulary that will scribble tons of diarrhea about you (and everyone else) from a different profile. You can’t deceive the expectation of a certain category of visitors! hi You admitted about MI-6? wink Well, so now proceed to the second part, a person should not stand still in development! good And then the phrase sounded that either I was a pug, or I, Anton, Elena, Parusnik and, especially, Viktor Nikolaevich, it was you from another account, and broke my brain. request I won’t sleep now because of my many faces ... fellow
            1. ruskih
              ruskih 22 November 2017 18: 14
              +3
              And why a pug belay I’m better off American Cocker - will I be a spaniel or I wantlaughing
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 22 November 2017 18: 22
                +1
                he said - whoever is on the article branch is either a pug or V.O. Shpakovsky request There were no spaniels stop Therefore, if you really do not want to be a pug, then, Elena .. what go grow your mustache! fellow love
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 22 November 2017 19: 02
                  +3
                  Well, he doesn’t like pugs, by the way, too. I have a sea pig more than a dog than these creatures.
              2. Curious
                Curious 22 November 2017 19: 05
                +3
                I also do not share about the pug, because it is larger and the bite is correct. And cockers have a chronic incurable congenital disease - a pit of the stomach. How many do not give - like a black hole.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 22 November 2017 19: 12
                  +1
                  And cockers have a chronic incurable congenital disease - a pit of the stomach. How many do not give - like a black hole.

                  yes, I heard. Although the brother has a beagle - the same thing. French bulldogs are very smart, but painful. Therefore .. there are seals! love
                  1. ruskih
                    ruskih 22 November 2017 19: 48
                    +2
                    Therefore .. there are seals!

                    and Yorkie love
                2. ruskih
                  ruskih 22 November 2017 19: 17
                  +3
                  And cockers have a chronic incurable congenital disease - a pit of the stomach. How many do not give - like a black hole.

                  You are out of luck. Mine did not suffer from this.
                  So quietly from the Aztecs, predictions ..... switched to dogs. lol
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 22 November 2017 19: 23
                    +2
                    So quietly from the Aztecs, predictions ..... switched to dogs. lol

                    I suggest that you switch from dogs to cats, then call a couple more people, and, as usual, discuss the scientific and applied significance of communism in a single country drinks soldier
                    1. ruskih
                      ruskih 22 November 2017 19: 28
                      +2
                      I suggest that you switch from dogs to cats, then call a couple more people, and, as usual, discuss the scientific and applied significance of communism in a single country

                      Very efficient offer. But in order not to go far from the topic of the article, to look for predictions in the manuscripts proposed by the author and Viktor Nikolaevich for "a single country"
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 22 November 2017 19: 44
                        +3
                        and here you don’t even have to think, everything is on the surface. request
                        Aztec Communist point of view: "The Aztecs lived in a rotting society of egregious social inequality, exploitation and human sacrifice. All sorts of terrible things that happened to them, and which they did not know how to resist, only exposed the putridness of the existing regime of the military priestly junta. Therefore, when the Spaniards came, ordinary people from the neighboring tribes subjugated and oppressed by the Aztecs showed their class heterogeneity, tore off shoulder straps and massively sided with the liberators, who promised them freedom, land, bread and circuses. From that moment, Mexico embarked on a path of progressive development.."
                        Aztecophile Monarchist Point of View: "The ancient Aztec society was catholic and spiritual, appreciating hygiene, learning to wash and wipe the back of the neighboring tribes who opposed it. Under the guidance of a wise leader and with the support of the good faith of the priests, it went to progress, bringing the light of education to neighboring nations, developing science and art. The Aztec army and economy didn’t have enough to win the war, the fault of which was the betrayal of the allies, liberals in the government and Jews (especially Jews)."
                        Is it worth it? wink drinks often all discussions come down to something like that! drinks
                      2. Curious
                        Curious 22 November 2017 19: 45
                        +3
                        "... look for predictions ... for a single country."
                        No global and mega-temporal predictions can be found there. In the Middle Ages the world did not seem diverse and heterogeneous - a person was inclined to judge him by his own small narrow world. Only random, fragmentary, and sometimes inaccurate information was received about the outside world. Tales of merchants and pilgrims about what they saw in distant lands were overgrown with legends and fantastically painted.
                        Therefore, in the writings of medieval historians there is a tendency to judge the world by its limited part, which is only well known.
                        So the desire to write universal stories is realized by them in the form of provincial chronicles with very limited horizons. The material they set out, to the extent that it was not borrowed from the Bible or other literary sources, related mainly to their country or region.
                        From this point of view, the information of the "great provincials" is of value.
                  2. Curious
                    Curious 22 November 2017 19: 32
                    +3
                    I have a labrador. And a Persian cat.
                3. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 22 November 2017 20: 02
                  +3
                  Are you sure this is about cockers, not Labradors?!?!?!
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 22 November 2017 20: 08
                    +3
                    Yes, she loves to eat a doggie. As the grandson says: "You are not a creative guy, Balu, you can only eat."
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 22 November 2017 20: 09
                      +2
                      first call the dog like a bear, then you are surprised wink drinks
                      1. Curious
                        Curious 22 November 2017 20: 17
                        +3
                        This is the first thing that came to mind when they saw him. Officially, he’s some kind of background von don pyramidon thirty-second. And in appearance - spilled Balu.
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 22 November 2017 21: 22
                        +4
                        My girl sweeps everything! From jar of yogurt to banana skins, this is in addition to the main diet. Just now in the park, in Pushkin I found a pig bone .... That's how? In the park! In Pushkin! Bone! This - found!
              3. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 22 November 2017 19: 10
                +2
                Do not be discouraged, the person wanted to say “hamsters”, but he does not like pugs on par with Shpakovsky. That is superimposed. What to do - a sick psyche.
          2. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 22 November 2017 18: 06
            +2
            Undoubtedly! Write the "Otteks"! And it will be 100%! And there will be - happiness! To everyone! For free! And not a single ovnyuk will leave offended!
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 22 November 2017 18: 13
              +2
              Write the Oztecs

              and "atsteki" will not ride? wink
              And not a single ovnyuk will leave offended!

              yes, the ovnyuk will not leave offended, but will run away shamefully fellow dialectics, sir! request
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 22 November 2017 18: 55
                +2
                In my opinion, beech is less. "Advego" do not care, and the "Claudia" is not iron. The Intelligent Service once every two years gives agents 5 pounds to “update the technical park,” Mossad gives me nothing at all, so I write from a tablet bought with FSB money. Here, I’ll go, I’ll figure it out ... but I wanted to relax .... uh!
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 22 November 2017 19: 03
                  +4
                  “Mossad” doesn’t give me anything at all, so I write from a tablet bought with FSB money.

                  well .. what can I say .. would you, Anton, first consult with smart people, well, with Caliber, for example, who is more profitable to cooperate with, and only then you sign an agreement with Mossad in blood, well, or what did you sign there request threw you! recourse and he has been cooperating with MI-6 for many years, writes to the Queen of the English letter, sells secrets to the Germans through Kurios, through the Doctors to the Japanese, and through Marat to the penguin pets. good that’s what a person with work experience means! hi
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 22 November 2017 20: 18
                    +5
                    And only I alone remain faithful to the oath !!!! "Maybe they will even give me the order! ... Posthumously!"
                    "The neighbor behind the wall lazily beat a neighbor
                    A secret call sign sounded in my ears
                    On weekends, I really want to explore!
                    Ayda guys who are still with me "
                    (A. Bashlachev "Intelligence" 1981)
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 22 November 2017 21: 34
                      +7
                      "Maybe they will even give me the order! ... Posthumously!"

                      For a long time I could not understand what kind of trunk they gave Nikulin in the film. It turned out to be a Beretta. Last year there was an exhibition at the Art Museum about weapons in films. Didn’t go?
                      Do you remember the policeman who gave him this gun? Actor Vladimir Gulyaev during the war (twenty-odd years before the film) was an attack pilot, a participant in the Victory Parade, he had two orders of the Red Banner, and two of the Patriotic War, not counting other awards. The Order of the Red Banner ranks after the Order of Lenin. So think about how many Germans he sent to the other world ... soldier
                      1. Sling cutter
                        Sling cutter 22 November 2017 21: 47
                        +4
                        Quote: Mikado
                        Do you remember the policeman who gave him this gun? Actor Vladimir Gulyaev during the war (twenty-odd years before the film) was an attack pilot, a participant in the Victory Parade, he had two orders of the Red Banner, and two of the Patriotic War, not counting other awards. The Order of the Red Banner ranks after the Order of Lenin. So think about how many Germans he sent to the other world ...

                        Wow!!!!! I did not know, Thank you!
                        My respect! soldier
                      2. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 23 November 2017 02: 45
                        +2
                        Alas, I didn’t go.
    2. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 22 November 2017 17: 09
      +2
      what expression .... Bravo ... wassat
    3. kalibr
      22 November 2017 17: 16
      +1
      You are absolutely right in one thing - there are always "your" target audiences for which you need to work. Everyone has their own tastes, including in the field of information. You are satisfied with another level, someone is satisfied with this. Among the latter, all cannot be idiots and ignorant ignorant. Therefore, I simply ignore your opinion. And about plagiarism, I wrote many times that if the level of novelty in the Advego-Anti-Plagiarism system is more than 92%, then what is it about? Sources of information can be very different. If they are processed and the computer gives the go-ahead, then ... what claims? And so, thanks for clicking on the piggy bank site.
  11. Russian jacket
    Russian jacket 22 November 2017 17: 12
    +1
    it’s more interesting to read about Maya Yuri Knorozov ... hi
  12. ruskih
    ruskih 22 November 2017 20: 00
    +3
    Curious,
    You are right, from this point of view the materials would be very interesting to see and read.
    Often, the predictions that have come down to us interpret how anyone pleases, absolutely not taking these points into account.
    1. Curious
      Curious 22 November 2017 20: 13
      +3
      But I think that I was also called a pug enthusiastic. Even Venia. How to be now? How to justify, how to refute?
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 22 November 2017 20: 17
        +1
        Venya is at the top of the discussion. If you want, ask him, maybe you will learn something new and interesting about yourself. laughing
        1. Curious
          Curious 22 November 2017 20: 34
          +3
          I already knew. Vena Kharlamova called Varlamov.
          1. ruskih
            ruskih 22 November 2017 21: 09
            +3
            This is definitely a shame on Vienna. Confuse a famous hockey player with a fashion designer. winked
            The legendary three of CSKA Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov! How did you play good
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 22 November 2017 21: 24
              +3
              Mihaylov

              not a relative. I have only the military in the family. Alone, I, like a coffer, a humanist, having served nearly ten years. fool So, I fixed the Internet on the first try! Apparently, fate wants me to continue humility. With you all ...drinks
            2. Curious
              Curious 22 November 2017 21: 28
              +3
              Super Series -72 !!! The streets are empty! The whole country is on TV! And the commentator - N.N. Ozerov - “No, we don’t need such hockey!” What a man he was! Had the luck of dating.
              1. ruskih
                ruskih 22 November 2017 22: 00
                +3
                Very pleasant and good memories. Thank! love
        2. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 22 November 2017 21: 30
          +4
          For God's sake! Do not be famously. It is quiet today and almost adequate. The full moon will start again ...
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 22 November 2017 21: 35
            +3
            there today Zhukov’s article appeared in the same section about the full moonwhat Think? .. belay
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 23 November 2017 03: 16
              +2
              Good article, I splashed. There is something else, but the moon acts the same for everyone.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 23 November 2017 11: 50
                +2
                A werewolf can only be defeated by a vampire (based on the movie Van Helsing). Uncover the fangs! good
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 23 November 2017 21: 35
                  +2
                  Sorry, Nikolai, this is a serious topic, at least for me. I have never focused on her, but she exists. I carefully read the comments, I realized that not one of the members of the forum I was faced with phenomena of inexplicable genesis.
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 24 November 2017 09: 24
                    0
                    I carefully read the comments, I realized that not one of the members of the forum I was faced with phenomena of inexplicable genesis.

                    scientifically, this is called lycanthropy laughing although, jokes in pieces, over the past three days no one has felt nervous? I got a catalyst error yesterday, and the trimmer broke - you can't even shave your beard! request
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 22 November 2017 21: 36
        +3
        Understand and forgive. You see in a patient manic-depressive syndrome aggravated by recent reincarnation
        1. Curious
          Curious 22 November 2017 21: 41
          +3
          Yes, for a long time they understood and forgave ...
      3. venaya
        venaya 22 November 2017 22: 35
        +2
        Quote: Curious
        enthusiastic pug they still called me. Even venya

        Forced to clarify: when translating into Russian-language font nickname "Curious" better translated as "Cirosis"- the most accurate transliteration, as I understand it. Moreover, it has clearly medical applications, which is more suitable for the profession of the owner of this nickname. Once again, I remind the name of our state in Finnish: Venäjä = Russia, venäläinen = Russianthat it’s not convenient to write without a Finnish layout on a computer at a party, therefore, on the advice of comrades, I changed the spelling to only Latin layout, and it turned out “venaya” - the letters are better seen, and the Finnish-speaking people will understand and forgive - the Latin alphabet is really full-time (not full-fledged) and frankly stupid - this is any normal person without quacks, the person will say.
        1. Curious
          Curious 22 November 2017 23: 42
          +4
          First, cirrhosis - two letters "p". And what you did has no use. Even medical. Secondly, how could I know that you decided to write your Finnish nickname without Finnish letters? You would have written in Sumerian. Then, with transliteration, the most fantastic options could come out in general.
          Therefore, in order to avoid psychological injuries for you, I suggest that you indicate in parentheses near your nickname (Finnish is not in Finnish letters). Everyone will know.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 22 November 2017 23: 49
            +8
            Quote: Curious
            And what you did has no use. Even medical.

            And there’s nothing to call yourself with import letters. Finnish, Latin ... There are not enough hieroglyphs so that no one would guess. sad
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 23 November 2017 03: 21
              +4
              Well, excuse me, when I came up with a nickname for myself, not all phones had a Russian layout
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 23 November 2017 11: 45
                +2
                and I .. looked at my cat .. and came up with .. drinks but how he came up with a cat is another story!
  13. Mikado
    Mikado 22 November 2017 22: 04
    +3
    Sling cutter,
    Thank you, though right, for nothing! love Do you know what is the most interesting? sitting on Wikipedia and watching biographies of artists from the 40-60s. How many new films you discover! Vyacheslav Olegovich once gave an example that his students were shown the film "Hot Days" of 1935, about tankers. Many of us remember this movie? I watched it once, in 2002, when it was shown somehow before dawn, at six in the morning. And they will know!
    And of the artists of this generation, almost all fought. Papanov fought (senior sergeant, disabled, in the 42nd year his toes were torn off), Aleksey Smirnov fought (at his sight the Germans simply ran away, dropping stool. Oh, that's what beautiful there was a man), Smoktunovsky fought, Chekan fought - half of the disabled returned! There you go! soldier
    1. Curious
      Curious 22 November 2017 22: 25
      +4
      Of the famous Soviet actors, more than 50 people fought.
      (http://www.webpark.ru/comment/45649, http://maxpark.com/community/538/content/2154311)
      .
      But there were still young people, those who had played one two roles before the war and left. And did not return, did not become famous.
      In 1937, the film “The Youth of the Poet,” released on the 100th anniversary of the death of Alexander Pushkin, was released on Soviet screens — most of the performers of the role of lyceum students died at the front.
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 22 November 2017 22: 38
        +4
        They died at the front.
        Hitler’s favorite director - Leni Riefenstahl - tried to make the film "Valley", the action was supposed to take place in Spain. Statisticians were 68 gypsies - to create the "Spanish flavor". After filming, they were all sent to camps ... I think few survived ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  14. burigaz2010
    burigaz2010 22 November 2017 23: 02
    +2
    NDA 700 publication on VO but I did not get my mind! Shpakovsky is such a Shpakovsky! Already wrote, all these codes were written by the Spaniards themselves to justify themselves !!! They themselves were horrified that they destroyed an entire civilization, whipped up some garbage and what, everyone is happy everyone is dancing !!! And the pictures that say that God is in a jacket made of human skin, damn it, there you’ll understand without a bottle of figs! But with a bottle, yes!
  15. avva2012
    avva2012 23 November 2017 04: 50
    +5
    V.O.Shpakovsky: “First of all, people saw in the sky figures of warriors in unusual costumes fighting each other. Then the“ angel ”appeared to the prisoner whom they were to sacrifice, encouraged him and promised that these sacrifices would end very soon since those who will have to rule this land are already close. Then at night on the eastern side of the sky people saw a certain glow, and then a column of smoke and flames. "
    Tatyana PLIKHNEVICH: “At first they saw figures of fighting soldiers in the air. Then an“ angel ”appeared to the prisoner intended to sacrifice, encouraged him and said that the sacrifices would soon end, as those who were destined to rule this land were approaching. After some time, it was observed in the east at night "a certain glow, and later - a column of smoke with flames. This is not the only case of" signs "that portended the arrival of European conquerors in Mexico."
    IN. Shpakovsky: “Well, then the real miracles began. The goddess Siukoatl suddenly began to wander around the city and lament:“ My children, I leave you, ”and they brought emperor Montezuma a bird that looked like a crane, but for some reason had a mirror on its head "Then this bird disappeared unknown where, but a new miracle was brought to him: freaks with two heads, who, it seems, also disappeared in the most magical way."
    Tatyana PLIKHNEVICH: “The goddess Siuacoatl suddenly began wandering around the city, lamenting:“ My children, I am leaving you. ”Montezuma brought a bird with a mirror on his head, in which he saw three stars, and then warriors on“ roe deer. ” the bishop began to bring two-headed freaks who immediately disappeared. "
    IN. Shpakovsky: “Bernardino de Sahagun - the largest specialist in the culture of the Aztecs, who worked hard to preserve it, compiled a whole list of signs that spoke of the coming of Cortez and his people. The first edition of his so-called“ Madrid Codes ”(1561-1565 years .) or “The general history of things in New Spain,” he described a number of miracles that portended the capture of the Aztec power by aliens ...... And most importantly, the dead and already buried woman seemed to come to the Aztec ruler Montezuma (Motekuhsome) and told him that together with n they will end the power of the rulers of Mexico City, since those who are destined to enslave this land are on their way! "
    Tatyana PLIKHNEVICH: “In his work“ The General History of the Things of New Spain ”, the Franciscan Bernardino de Sahagun described several miracles foreshadowing the invasion of the country by aliens. All of them are weirder.
    For example, a woman who died and was buried in the courtyard of her house allegedly appeared to the Aztec ruler Montezuma and declared that the rule of the rulers of Mexico City would end with him, for those who would enslave this land were already on their way. "
    Etc. Riddles in the dark. request
    1. kalibr
      23 November 2017 07: 31
      +1
      And what, doctor? You showed the level of alteration. How does he not suit you? I have already written many times that VO is a popular science site where links to sources are not required, what to give them or not to give their will to the author. That rewrite in which the degree of novelty exceeds 90% is normal. A number of book publishers generally lower the bar to 75%. And so you spent so much time on all these comparisons, labor ... and why? Do you think this will change anything? True, the fact that you have studied both texts so thoroughly is good.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 23 November 2017 09: 41
        +2
        True, the fact that you have studied both texts so thoroughly is good.

        Yes, nonsense. The habit of working with documents of sufficient volume, just, in terms of grabbing, from the text of inconsistencies. Usually, documents of a more complex semantic content, therefore, spent on the analysis of this case no more than five minutes.
        Well, and so, it turns out sadly. Instead of talent, “level rework”, counting changed words. Most likely, you do this, not even yourself, but the program in the computer, that is, it is not labor, but profanity, deception, by and large. So, I personally summed up the next, “total." Puzzles have developed. With what, I personally congratulate myself. It was funny.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 23 November 2017 11: 17
          +3
          Doctor, do you have any relatives among the Birobidzhan Cossacks? wink and then .. you would have to work as a lawyer. what here we have opened another side of yours! what a potential! fellow drinks
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 23 November 2017 12: 10
            +1
            laughing Nikolay, thank you very much, but still not! wassat Colora. I have a haplogroup. Although I treat any nationality with respect. You know, lawyers and doctors have a lot in common. He is diagnosed on the basis of intuition only in the fifth year of the institute. wink drinks
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 23 November 2017 14: 30
              +2
              Doctor, what can you say about the construction of developed socialism in a single Aztec country? hi
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 23 November 2017 14: 50
                +2
                After they release at the State Sign, the medal "For ... the city of Washington", I can
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 23 November 2017 14: 53
                  +1
                  Washington is a different country! stop there are Iroquois and other pueblo, they later learned to drink vodka and urinate in a public place. request
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 23 November 2017 15: 07
                    +2
                    I can’t write fiction, there’s no talent. And without a medal, you can’t do it at all, these Iroquois tomahawks do not want to bury. Or they are us or we are them. Judging by where, We are moving, there is a high probability of being left even without a medal, "For Defense ...", not to the Aztecs. hi
        2. kalibr
          23 November 2017 16: 21
          +1
          We live in the information world, doctor. Remember, once a book came out and checked for typos and pasted a sheet at the back with instructions where they are and on which page they are now writing - “the book is given in the author’s edition” and there are mistakes ... and everyone ... But write this it’s not so easy as picking up photographs and illustrations, connecting one with the other, and the computer - yes, it helps, but the main thing is for the person. And again - if you want serious research, I wrote to you - read "Questions of History", "History of State and Law", "Homeland", "History Illustrated". Online journalism has its own laws, here one should not confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs - there is 92% of novelty - all-oh! Moreover, this VO is so good that moderators follow ... complaints can be written ... There are sites where they pay attention only to how many times your material has been inserted into blogs. There, they give tasks like this: “here is a text of 2000 characters for you, increase its volume to 8000 and give a novelty of 94%. And more terrible ...” And nothing. They have their own audience and people there too ...
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 23 November 2017 16: 42
            0
            Generally, put Tsak, student.
          2. Curious
            Curious 23 November 2017 17: 35
            +3
            The lowest percentage of novelty on porn sites. How many years have the same process been shown!
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 23 November 2017 17: 47
              +2
              The specifics of this. I have never heard accusations of plagiarism from more than one author.
            2. Mikado
              Mikado 23 November 2017 17: 47
              +3
              touched upon a dangerous topic, Viktor Nikolaevich wink You know, and we have already done this, it’s enough to show a naked female breast in the picture in an article about Crete, and 80% of them start discussing not the helmet made of boar fangs in the foreground of the warrior, but the size and shape of the “ciseido” of the ancient Cretan woman in the background! lol and the process may be different ... bully
              1. Curious
                Curious 23 November 2017 17: 52
                +2
                No matter how different he is, the essence is the same. And for a very long time.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 23 November 2017 17: 56
                  +3
                  No matter how different he is, the essence is the same. And for a very long time.

                  I’m going to write an essay on the topic: “How I finally had a fight with Viktor Nikolaevich because of different views on the subject of the dispute” fellow drinks joke! laughing
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 23 November 2017 18: 11
                    +3
                    Interesting associations: porn site, plagiarism ..., continue the chain, called laughing
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 23 November 2017 18: 37
                      +2
                      Interesting associations: porn site, plagiarism ..., continue the chain, called

                      ..something, bugger, Pol Pot, half a bottle .. sad Fine? (all words are censored and usable! hi )
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 24 November 2017 02: 24
                        +3
                        Yes, it is quite. It remains to answer the only question. Who is it?
                      2. Mikado
                        Mikado 24 November 2017 11: 28
                        +1
                        avva2012,
                        So will you continue or not?
                      3. avva2012
                        avva2012 24 November 2017 15: 11
                        +1
                        oh how twisted! laughing we only finished up to six!

                        I’m afraid that with such associations of which the most innocent is half a bottle, we’ll play out wassat to the eternal ban. (ps: the site does not send news that the response to the comment came from this thread). wink It's a sign belay laughing
                  2. avva2012
                    avva2012 24 November 2017 12: 08
                    +1
                    So will you continue or not?

                    A game in a chain of associations? Not. Good, little by little.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 24 November 2017 12: 14
                      +2
                      Well, he suggested, he refused! crying I now have a deep frustration due to the dissatisfaction of the subconscious needs for self-abuse. recourse
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 24 November 2017 12: 57
                        +1
                        I did not establish the boundaries of the proposed? Let's play, say, until twenty-five. And, therefore, unlike some, I did not cheat. Just our Wishlist, in this case, did not match. wink hi
                      2. Mikado
                        Mikado 24 November 2017 13: 07
                        +2
                        avva2012,
                        oh how twisted! laughing we only finished up to six! drinks
      2. burigaz2010
        burigaz2010 23 November 2017 19: 32
        +4
        Shpakovsky and who recently proved to everyone that they must necessarily indicate the sources ??? About the photo public demine like? Or what can the Sheriff Indian finally!
        1. kalibr
          23 November 2017 21: 32
          +2
          And who listened to me? And if not, but why run ahead of the engine? By the way, why do not the photos suit you? "The original codex is in the French National Library in Paris." And about the rest - everything is on the web. Moreover, I already fully recommended the “Telleriano Code” to Dmitry (Reptiloid) and he read it. So under them it’s just indicated what it is and where ...
  16. kalibr
    23 November 2017 08: 57
    +1
    Quote: burigaz2010
    Already wrote, all these codes were written by the Spaniards themselves

    A link to an authoritative scientific study, where it is written about.
  17. Evgeny Kovalikhin
    Evgeny Kovalikhin 23 November 2017 11: 27
    +7
    If we discard all the lyrics, then gorlumello presented a rather serious argument incriminating the "author" of plagiarism. Kalibr, apparently, Mr. Shpakovsky somehow sluggishly dismissed some percentages that the program gives out and that a small alteration of other people's texts is now called copyright material, in turn, avva 2012 gave concrete examples of plagiarism, to Mr. Shpakovsky in general did not answer anything intelligible ... In addition, it is not entirely clear what relation esoteric has to the very specific specifics of the VO site. I specially got acquainted with Mr. Shpakovsky’s “creativity” under the title “For Those Who Like Handicrafts” and, what is surprising, there are no photographs of the finished works made by the author (maybe I came across such a publication, but there were more questions). I got acquainted with the articles of Mr. Shpakovsky regarding the prospects for the development in the Russian Federation of a business for the production and sale of figures of soldiers. One place just plunged into a stupor, I quote from memory "... the first year you feed the business, the second year you and the business feed each other, the third year the business feeds you ..." a number of questions arose:
    1. What happens for 4 years of running this business project or in this case the whole cycle is designed for 3 years?
    2. how without any calculations did the author come to this conclusion?
    3. To what extent do I need to feed the business so that it feeds me for 3 years, because from the fundamentals of the economy everyone knows about such a concept as a market niche.
    Thus, after a superficial acquaintance with Mr. Shpakovsky’s “creativity”, he got the impression of a man trying to solve issues from which he is in fact very far away ... And as for the enthusiastic pugs, after reading the comments, appreciating the style and tone, I came to the conclusion about multi-breeding ... it’s not entirely clear the truth why Mr. Shpakovsky has this intellectual masturbation his alter ego ...
    1. Curious
      Curious 23 November 2017 12: 14
      +2
      Those. in your opinion - am I - a cartoon of Shpakovsky?
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 23 November 2017 12: 21
        +2
        yeah, what else! fellow
        1. Curious
          Curious 23 November 2017 12: 23
          +2
          ... answered one cartoon to another.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 23 November 2017 12: 39
            +2
            "the hope of the whole country is coming - a healthy, strong mannequin!" (V.S. Vysotsky). Say thanks again for the fact that not one pug ran out to another drinks
    2. kalibr
      23 November 2017 13: 58
      +3
      Dear Eugene! You obviously want to discuss personalities, and since you are a "sociable person" I will provide you with some information for consideration. "Sluggishly dismissed" is still said a lot. I didn’t want to write anything about such stupidity. I advise you first of all to look at Wikipedia what is plagiarism. Second, I had an article here on how to write in VO - look at it too. You see ignorance is not an argument. Now about the book "For those who love ..." You are probably a young man and are not familiar with the rules of book publishing in the USSR. Then, in order to publish a book on children's technical creation, especially in such a publishing house as EDUCATION, it was necessary to present her photo for each homemade product. Drawings, especially in axinometry, were made specifically for them. You are young and have not seen photos of a number of models from there in the "Modeler = Constructor" from the "Cosmos" contest, although again here on VO there was my material on home-made products, where there were a lot of photos. I didn’t understand why the 3-year cycle scared you. Obviously, the business will feed you further, is it not clear? And I did not understand about intellectual masturbation ... What is it? I get paid for my work! The publishing house indicates% of novelty - 75% or 90% and I stand it. As for criticism ... over the past 10 years, my books have received 5 times grants from the Russian Humanitarian Science Foundation, including the latest Samurai (2016). Its experts evaluated the Institute of Oriental Studies. And, probably, not superficially like you. The RAS parted with money very reluctantly. What else do you need? You see, there is a law and there are concepts. These are different things - that's all.
      1. Evgeny Kovalikhin
        Evgeny Kovalikhin 23 November 2017 14: 45
        +8
        Dear Mr. Kalibr, if such a trifle does not bother you, do me a favor to post pictures of finished models you personally made from the aforementioned book, such as the Katran submarine from needle containers and the MiG-29 model assembled for a very "interesting" technology described by you in the same book.
        As for the business plan, since you are so "authoritatively" making statements about achieving profitability in the 3rd year of the project, do not find it difficult to submit calculations that take into account FULL FULL legislation of the Russian Federation (including tax) and the amount of profit, not total revenue , namely, PROFIT which will feed the owner of the business organized according to your proposed model. Your answer, as always, is very "detailed" therefore, if you do not mind, we could return to the second part of your message a little later, after you submitted information on the first part.
        1. kalibr
          23 November 2017 15: 40
          +2
          It will be difficult, of course, since I wrote this book in 1989.
          And about the second ... Are you really so naive or pretending to be? People pay BIG MONEY for such a business plan, and you want it for nothing, right? And no later and no sooner do I intend to discuss this anymore. What I wanted I wrote to you, and even brought a link to the material with the photo, say thank you on this. However, according to TaM magazine, I’ll tell you - I started publishing it ... I don’t remember when, but precisely in the beginning of the 90s, and I remember very well that it started to bring profit after 3 years, and then became an application to T -M, which indicates the profitability of the publication. There were 5 modeling firms in Penza (as the same M-Hobby wrote about) and everything was exactly the same with them ...
          1. Evgeny Kovalikhin
            Evgeny Kovalikhin 23 November 2017 16: 19
            +6
            In principle, I did not expect anything else from you and did not expect Mr. Kalibr. They told you that you are GIVING advice on things that are very poorly orientated ... Your answer about the models from the book is: "There is no homework because the dog bit the notebook ...", this is without comment. And as for the business plan, another conversation ... In your article you give practical advice and arrange it all in such a way that it looks authoritative enough, links to your experience, description of some transactions ... You answered my first question about 3 years without any reference to the cost of your consultations. Thus, you mislead readers, at first palming them with supposedly “sensible” information, but in reality your fantasies about the topic, and when you were asked to specify data on the issue, you referred to the fact that it costs other money ... So and from this it was necessary to start, without misleading the readers with supposedly useful tips, to clarify right away that these were just your thoughts and a purely personal vision of the situation. As for the commercial success of model firms and the magazine, I could talk to you, but since you are positioning yourself like that, I don’t dare to spend your precious more.
            1. kalibr
              23 November 2017 17: 59
              +1
              https://topwar.ru/97197-hochesh-chtoby-vokrug-vse
              -byli-patrioty-idi-k-detyam.htm
  18. gorlumello
    gorlumello 23 November 2017 11: 51
    +9
    Quote: burigaz2010
    Shpakovsky is such a Shpakovsky!


    And that’s all. His book about knights is a kind of festival of plagiarism (alien thoughts, alien illustrations, alien maxims. Classics). He is not a weapon, he is up to Okshot, Kirpichnikov - as before the Moon. He is not a historian of chivalry - to Maurice Keane to him even further. however, he confidently takes up everything that he has no idea about. Was it fashionable to glue models in the 90s? and here Shpakovsky is right there - he hears in articles and recipes for cosmic stupidity, simultaneously unobtrusively smacking tar and pickled junk (by the way, of extremely mediocre quality), again, pretending to be "author's", but there was a shimmer of "bourgeois" resin almost half, and Shpakovsky’s projects themselves - zero. His material on the history of tanks is a full bottom, below the baseboard. This is even worse than Otto Carius's hunting tales. In the late 80s modelism, Shpakovsky’s advice is incredible stupidity (“layered” model airplanes and elements of antique ships bent from wire — a separate article in hell). As a result, the "expert" does not have a single assembled model of the tank with his own hands, not a single assembled set of figures of soldiers (and after all, the "master" also gave advice to space stupidity in the "M-Hobby" at the time) or dioramas (if any, show ) The asset of the “master” is only kilometers of graphomaniac text about nothing. All the screams (well, not pugs - but loyal fans, fans, admirers - choose what is best for you. About plumbing in Haifa, the passage is good, it’s fun. You have to work at Shpakovsky’s dance hours in hours free from enthusiasm about his articles) the depth of his research and encyclopedic knowledge is also about nothing. there is neither depth nor knowledge. Yelling about “get it first”, “do better” and “you just envy” - also past the target :-). It's a shame that clicks and empty chimes with graphomanic itching come to the fore - such are Shpakovsky. But real historians - for example, in ancient Russia and Russia of the 34th century - Yegor Bagrin, Anatoly Kirpichnikov, on the history of the T-XNUMX - Makarov, Zheltov, Sergeyev, on the history of the Tiger tank - Chibisov - they are in the shade. as well as modelers from God - for example, Rogozin, Muchichko, Gladchenkov, Demchenko brothers, etc. - these do not stick out. But who do we have in the foreground of the "experts" on soldiers? Shpakovsky and others like them. This is a shame. Well, for the rest, you can persuade both my words and my name, as you wish. I ... kinda softer to say ... anyway.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 23 November 2017 13: 13
      +3
      You need to work at Shpakovsky's dance classes in hours free from enthusiasm for his articles

      eh .. I don’t know how to dance .. crying interferes, so to speak ... request
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 23 November 2017 19: 38
        +3
        Machos do not dance, they even walk with difficulty.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 23 November 2017 20: 33
          +2
          Yes Yes exactly! I thought, in the Dominican Republic, a local girl pulled out to dance, but I did not go ... recourse precisely because of this!
          a man is not known in dance. wink and in providing a "comfortable world" to their half. And male ballet stars are sometimes homosexual. request the only thing I respect Nizhinsky, and for this:
          In 1945, Nizhinsky was suddenly discovered by a Life correspondent in post-war Vienna dancing among Soviet soldiers. The meeting with fellow countrymen made an indelible impression on Nizhinsky: he hardly spoke before, he began to communicate in his native language with former compatriots

          the honored dancer rejoiced that they came and freed! Note - the Pole was, spent half his life in exile, but still lived "in the same world with us." Honor and bow! love
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 November 2017 21: 17
            +3
            Tango, Nikolai, tango. This is the dance of triumphant male chauvinism. A woman is required to relax, obey and have fun.
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 24 November 2017 09: 29
              +1
              tango is a whole art ... what and a good dancer can live happily ever after. fellow drinks Very popularized by Rudolfo Valentino. Remember the movie "Only Jazz in Jazz"? When one "transvestite involuntarily" says to another: "There will be three of you on the yacht - you, he and Rudolfo Valentino" laughing
    2. Curious
      Curious 23 November 2017 13: 36
      +5
      "... real historians - for example, in ancient Russia and Russia of the 34th century - Yegor Bagrin, Anatoly Kirpichnikov, on the history of the T-XNUMX - Makarov, Zheltov, Sergeyev, on the history of the Tiger tank - Chibisov - they are in the shade. like modelers from God - for example, Rogozin, Muchichko, Gladchenkov, the Demchenko brothers ... "
      Bring at least one of the ones you have listed on the site as authors. Or did they ask for the VO site and didn’t take them?
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 23 November 2017 13: 43
        +3
        Bring at least one of the ones you have listed on the site as authors. Or did they ask for the VO site and didn’t take them?

        I wanted to say it, but did not. There is such a profession - a critic ... hi
      2. kalibr
        23 November 2017 15: 34
        +2
        The funniest thing, Viktor Nikolaevich, is that, in general, I am not writing on the history of Russia and Russia of the 17th century. Is it that the Battle of the Ice, but this is a "gap", and not a topic, and the same Kirpichnikov had an article about him in the Zeichhaus ... there was. I did not write about T-34 and I am not going to, but there was a screenplay about the Tiger. It's here. All other books about tanks, except the most recent, were reviewed by a doctor of military sciences, professor Katorin. About him, by the way, is on the Internet ...
        1. Curious
          Curious 23 November 2017 15: 59
          +3
          According to the statement of Yevgeny Kovalikhin, you wrote it yourself.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 23 November 2017 16: 02
            +1
            you wrote it to yourself.

            I didn’t write anything to him. stop laughing and you too. Schizophrenia is blooming! we will soon laughing drinks
            All other books about tanks, except the most recent, were reviewed by a doctor of military sciences, professor Katorin.

            I had his book. Interesting. Swapped with another history officer when he served ... request
          2. kalibr
            23 November 2017 16: 36
            +2
            How powerful I am, however! Publishing houses Enlightenment, Polymya, Eksmo, Yauza, AST, Rosman, Polygon, Pomatur, Osprey, East Horizon - all surrender to me without a fight. Magazines Family and school, School and production, MK, TM, UT, Lefthander, Innovation inventor, Issues of history, VIZH, Science and technology, Technology and weapons, World of technology, History of illustreid and ... everyone who is there worked and works everyone is so stupid that they are simply powerless in front of me. Isn’t it scary?
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 23 November 2017 17: 14
              +2
              everyone who worked there and works is so stupid that they are simply powerless in front of me. Isn’t it scary?

              fearfully. For you are too many. Count the clicks, and that's it - you, the many-faced and many-faced Caliber fellow a joke based on what was said. We were stifled, only "criticism-analysts" have the right to speak in the highest hypostasis. No.
              but seriously .. criticizing is easier than writing .. the way is easier, "the track is cleared"! hi
          3. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 23 November 2017 21: 56
            +4
            According to the statements of Mr. Kovalikhin, Konstantin Ernst, in order to assert his right to lead the First Channel, you need somewhere to keep the crafts of the children sent to the program “Visiting a Fairy Tale”. Otherwise, this is not the First, but some impostors.
  19. kalibr
    23 November 2017 14: 06
    +4
    Quote: gorlumello
    As a result, the "expert" does not have a single assembled model of the tank with his own hands, not a single assembled set of figures of soldiers (and after all, the "master" also gave advice to space stupidity in the "M-Hobby" at the time) or dioramas (if any, show )

    I do not want to argue with you, and I have someone to evaluate my work. It’s only strange for me that you read the same M-Hobby so inattentively - there were also photos of works and photos of figures (the same Mexicans Pancho Villa, their BA and cacti), the T-60 tank generally got on the cover of the M-Hobby , and the photo of the diorama with the camel, Bren-Kerrier and the German car “He shouldn't have driven alone”, as well as the photos of other models and homemade products were here in VO. In the TECHNOLOGY-YOUTH magazine, they were on the headband in their 1984 issue after they took second place at the All-Union Toy Competition in 1982. So not all of you caught your eye. Well, I really like it, someone doesn’t like it!
    By the way, A. Kirpichnikov has a whole institute in St. Petersburg next to the Hermitage. Publish - I don't want to. How can I stop him from doing this, I can’t imagine.

    P.S. I didn’t find an article with a diorama here. But then I found this one. And in it is just a photo of homemade products that went into the book here, faded, but ... photo. And it was with them that drawings were made. In particular, from the hovercraft: https: //topwar.ru/97197-hochesh-chtoby-vo
    krug-vse-byli-patrioty-idi-k-detyam.html And God forbid, someone to calculate that I want to prove something to someone. Nah! I just thought that there would be curious ones - the same Eugene, for example, would look, and this ... to the benefit of the site!
  20. Karen
    Karen 23 November 2017 15: 47
    +4
    Vyacheslav, how do you do there according to Number Theory?
    I mean, article 777 will have to be markedly different from the rest ... start saving material for it. :)
    Good luck!
    1. kalibr
      23 November 2017 16: 10
      +3
      You came up with this well! We need to take care of this, especially since there is time! Thanks for the advice!
  21. kalibr
    23 November 2017 16: 38
    +2
    Quote: Evgeny Kovalikhin
    As for the commercial success of model firms and the magazine, I could talk to you, but since you are positioning yourself like that, I don’t dare to spend your precious more.

    Well, that's nice!
  22. Mamka pula
    Mamka pula 24 November 2017 17: 43
    16
    Oh guys grabbed
    I hope in the case?
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 24 November 2017 20: 21
      +2
      no as usual request already the rule. laughing
  23. kipage
    kipage 25 November 2017 17: 57
    16
    That's the opus of Shpakovsky
    And horrible - in the case
    My condolences
    1. kalibr
      25 November 2017 19: 21
      +1
      Anyhow? "On business?" Do you mean 17000 views?
      1. kipage
        kipage 25 November 2017 19: 41
        16
        Is it really about the views ...
  24. Mikhail Matyugin
    Mikhail Matyugin 12 August 2018 21: 28
    +1
    The material is of course chic ... I re-read it and decided to write some thoughts:

    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    “Telleriano-Remensis Codex”, p. 197. Blood vomiting epidemic, 1450-1454
    It is very interesting, what disease could be? plague or hemorrhagic fever, which most accurately reflects the symptoms, like in the New World were not recorded then?

    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    Since the number of people who informed the emperor about their prophetic dreams, which promise him trouble, began to grow, well, simply rapidly, the emperor ordered all such dreamers, who predicted troubles, to lead to him, and after hearing them, put them in prison, where they starved them to death. The result of this was that now few people in the empire decided to tell anyone about their dreams.
    Well, there’s a classic biblical sense here - when the sins of a certain people reach a certain value, they will be sent certain admonitors (well, like the prophet Jonah to the inhabitants of Nineveh), and then there are two options - the correction of public aspirations or further mopping up in wickedness, and in the second case outer punishment is already coming ...

    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    "They say ... that it was very big and very bright, and that was located on the east side, and what came out of the earth and reached the heavens ... It was one of the miracles that they saw before the Christians came and thought that it was Quetzalcoatl that they expected. ”
    The most amazing thing is that exactly this way, in accordance with the legends of the Indians, the arrival of Quetzalcoatl should have looked like it was promised to them in past centuries! "Great Deliverer and Illuminator", "Great White Forefather" ... as they called him ... And ... indeed, his direct descendants came ...

    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    It could even be aurora, which at the latitude of Mexico City can sometimes happen in the event of a strong magnetic storm caused by a flash on the Sun.
    Well, it is unlikely that an ordinary or at least previously encountered astronomical phenomenon would leave such a bright, literally and figuratively, trace in almost all the surviving documents of the era. Most likely it is a certain extraordinary nature of this phenomenon ...