Military Review

21 century small arms (part three)

85
By the way, how was it with the understanding of this trend in the development of small weapons at the turn of the century abroad? For example, in the United States for a long time, work was carried out on the ISR project (individual assault rifle), which was supposed to be a hybrid of an automatic rifle and a grenade launcher: an 5,56-mm rifle and an 20-mm grenade launcher - the complex was called OICW. Moreover, the rifle had an aiming range of 300 meters, and a grenade launcher - 1000! The grenade he fired exploded not with a direct hit on the target, but above or near it, which allows the enemy to be hit even if he is around the corner. The US military said that now the enemy can run, but will not be able to escape. True, the main "highlight" of the new weapon, they still considered its "optics", or rather, the guidance system. It provided a laser pointer and a computer that determines the distance to the target, while the computer’s task was to calculate the parameters of the shot and transfer the information to the microchip built into the 20-mm grenade. Thanks to this, almost 100 percentage effectiveness of defeating the enemy is achieved. The sight is equipped with infrared lenses for night combat. It is possible to install a video camera with multiple magnification to monitor the enemy. And all this is obviously the way it was, the only question is, where is this rifle now ?!


According to the original plans, each infantry squad of nine people was to receive four such rifle complexes, which would thus replace the M16А2 rifle in service with the M203 under-barrel grenade launcher and the M249 light machine gun. According to calculations, the effectiveness of OICW rifles in comparison with the М16 / М203 complex should increase 5 times due to the possibility of suppressing the enemy’s infantry unit at ranges of 800 — 1000 using an air-blast grenade. It had to act as follows: the range finder measured the distance to the target, then it was displayed on the sight display and automatically entered into the fire control system, which calculated the corrections for firing conditions and determined the number of revolutions of the grenade that it had to make on the path. In this case, the point of contactless exploding of a grenade was combined with the target contour, and when it reached there, it was undermined!

However, the main stumbling block was the price - for mass production, the cost of the new system would be about $ 10 thousand. (The cost of the M16А2 is $ 600-700). Weight in 8,16 kg (data for 2003 year), recognized "unacceptable for the US Army" (for TK it could not exceed 6,35 kg).

Further, in fact, it is possible and not to talk about new American rifles for future "environmental wars." But this does not mean that “there” they do not think about new weapons. Think and how - in the agency DARPA. And they have already concluded that it is necessary to equip American soldiers with disposable communication systems. Up to one shot only one step!


Rifle FN 2000

In Belgium, the modular system FN 2001 was created in 2000. It is also a hybrid rifle and grenade launcher, the latter has a larger caliber 40-mm. Weight 4 kg, so everything is fine. The spent cartridges are thrown forward.

So, while the AK-12 Russian machine gun looks like a “ugly duckling” against the background of all these monsters, it can well become a cheap and practical weapon “for a long time”, and this is also a very important quality for any type of small arms in the era of robot drones applying for mass production and use. Although, as already mentioned here in previous materials, the very country that first takes a step towards “firing computers” will achieve greater superiority over other countries, and even more than having hypersonic rockets ...

What goals are set by the creators of new generations of modern small arms, and what problems should it solve today? It is believed that it should disable heavily protected targets - well, let's say, covered with 20 layers of Kevlar, or armor made of titanium plates, have an aimed range higher than now, and effectively hit moving targets at this distance. At the same time, the weapon must be extremely light, have a large ammunition, but reliability is a traditional requirement for any weapon at all times!

Interestingly, despite the abundance of all sorts of prototypes, including those on liquid fuel, as well as using caseless ammunition, none of this went into service with the army, although some of them look quite attractive. Too many things are put on the map here, which is why it is simply impossible to make a mistake here! Naturally, those who undertake the improvement of various types of small arms usually most often start with pistols, since these weapons are somewhat simpler than others, and the need for them is still less than in other forms.

Well, now, dear readers of our site, pay attention to this “historical document ”, which was born exactly 37 years ago, that is, in 1980:
442353 Penza region, Kondolsky district, Pokrovo-Berezovka, school

Shpakovsky V.
Tov. Shpakovsky V.!
To your letter addressed to the Minister of Defense, I inform you that the military unit 64176 has considered the proposal "Pistol" and notes the following:
1. The constructive solution offered by you to a pistol with a single-use barrel is not new; Known West German pistol BNW-2, equipped with a block of disposable barrels with active-reactive bullets.
2. Wearable ammunition in the domestic PM pistol is 16 cartridges (2 equipped shop). To create such ammunition in your proposed design, you need an 2-3 barrel unit, so this structure will not have advantages in weight characteristics compared to a PM pistol (0,9 polypropylene density g / cm cubic), and in overall characteristics it will be significantly inferior.
3. The use of polypropylene (TU6-O5-1105-73) rifled shafts as a material with low frost resistance (-5: - 15) and low melting temperature (176 degrees; recommended operating range up to 120: 140 degrees) is unacceptable, t. to. shooting safety will not be provided. Due to the high temperatures of the combustion products when fired (2800 degrees), it is possible "to soften the adjacent shafts, which will lead to instability of the ballistic characteristics."
Based on the above, your proposal "Pistol" is of no practical value for us and is unacceptable for implementation.
COMMANDER OF THE FORCED PART OF 64176-V.V. V. SEMENOV
"13" May 1980.
561/17/173

In fact, it was not a “military unit”, but the Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense. Well, at that time I was a very arrogant young man, I worked as a teacher in a rural school, and then once, making my way from it to the 15 railway station on foot along the chernozem Russian road, or, better to say, straight along ", I decided to come up with an" effective "pistol like this, in a way that was not even equal!


Gun for combat swimmers from Germany

The gun is a status weapon!

First of all, I thought that the gun in our time is a status weapon, because it is required only occasionally. That is why today it hardly makes sense to carry a decent weight of alloy steel and non-ferrous metals. At the same time, for all its status, there are people who use it all the time, and status weapons should also hit the enemy for sure, just like any other. This is how the idea of ​​a pistol made entirely of plastic with a block of barrels, which are at the same time chamber and one-time use, and computer control and ignition, was born to me!


Schematic diagram of the author's gun mod.1980 g.

As can be seen from the answer, everything that I proposed at that time was either already known, although this was not reported in the open press at that time, or was technically difficult to implement. Although, if I had a plastic with higher heat resistance under my hands, then ... why not? Whatever it was, and after some time I found out that the Australian inventor O'Dwyer patented his shooting device called “Metal Storm” - in fact everything is the same ancient Espinol, but only higher technological level.

According to the principle of ancient espinoli

The main highlight of O'Dwyer's design is the location of the bullets in the barrel one by one, with the powder charge placed behind each of them, and the ignition is carried out using a computer. Thanks to this, an incredible rate of fire equal to ONE MILLION OF SHOTS PER MINUTE was obtained at the test!

That was where the VLe pistol came into being, less rapid-firing, but nonetheless capable of making 50 thousands of shots per minute. But what it gave: the first three bullets fired from this pistol almost at one moment, fly almost along the same trajectory. And although the return even in such a short time slightly displaces the weapon, the spread of bullets is still small. And if so, then the chance to hit the target from the first “triple” shot increases significantly. Moreover, it is curious that this gun was provided for an electronic system of identification of the owner. So, without knowing the “password”, it was impossible to shoot from it!

Then O'Dwyer made contact with the US Army, which became interested in Australian technology. There is no question of any purchases and, especially, the adoption of a weapon. But with the support of, among others, the Americans, O'Dwyer continues his research.


Metal Storm Pistol O'Dwyer.

Well, then I didn’t know anything about it, and I made a mock-up of this gun out of paper impregnated with epoxy resin, and then I tested it in action. It had seven trunks, placed in a circle, with the ignition of charges in each of them from a flashlight bulb with crushed glass and bullets, carved out of ... beef bones for soup! The firing mechanism was a simple “jack switch”, wired to light bulbs. Batteries power located in the handle. The most interesting thing is that since this gun was conceived as disposable, all the free space in it was filled with a mixture of potassium nitrate and sugar, in which the eighth light bulb was also recessed!

On the tests, none of the seven bullets with cross-shaped feathering from the blades of the Neva razors from 10 meters did not break through the standard plasticine target of NATO (oh, how much plasticine it took for me then!), But it was so tumbling that finding them later cost me a lot of work. Well, and then I pulled the trigger one last time, and my gun turned to ash right before my eyes!

Then, already in the 90-s, there were attempts to promote it through official organizations that sent the project even to Tula, from where rather strange reviews came - “everything is fine, very original, but the trunk diameter is great, what if dirt gets there?” However, the risk, in their opinion, was still too great to finance this project.

Is the gun in 3D everyone can make for himself?

And now the next round of scientific and technological revolution takes him to a new level. Today it is known - and our media reported that a certain enterprising young man named Cody Wilson, a student from Texas, was able to print an exact copy of the American AR-3 assault rifle in 15D technology and even make several shots from it. The only metal part in it turned out to be ... a steel block that breaks the cartridge primer, and the cartridges themselves, however, are smaller than the combat ones. Then he also made a pistol with the speaking name Liberator - “Liberator”. It is believed that the program of printouts of various types of weapons can be ordered even through the Internet, and ... who knows what copying can mean in the very near future?

The metal copy of the Colt 1911А1 was also made, though it cost $ 2 thousand and the parts had to be manually ground a little. But this is only the beginning!

21 century small arms (part three)

3D printer.

So, if you think about it, then a copy of any modern pistol or machine gun in 3D is already ... the “stone age”! After all, if you combine the principle of action of the O'Dwyer pistol with 3D technology, then ... you can create much more sophisticated and original shooting "gadgets" and, in particular, such as the one that you see in the photo here!


Pistol (weight and size layout) with a block of barrels on 48 shots in technology 3D.

The entire gun is printed out of heat-resistant plastic in 3D and is essentially disposable. The barrel block has 16 channels, each of which contains three ammunition at once, each of which is located inside a Teflon ampoule. The bullet itself is similar to the German hand grenade of World War II, which had a cylindrical warhead and a very long handle, only in this case at the end of this “handle” there is a cross tail, because the barrels of this gun are not rifled, but smooth! Here is a powder propellant charge and a microchip with an igniter. Moreover, the microchip is initiated by the microwave radiation of the firing mechanism; therefore, no contact wires are required for the gun, which ensures complete tightness. Today, small devices without batteries have been created that can find and reflect TV signals. In particular, Science News magazine reported that scientists from the University of Washington had created a wireless communication system, which differs from all existing ones in that it does not need a battery to supply energy. The new technology is called "ambient backscatter", which can be translated as "using scattered signals." Here and microchips in the bullets of this gun may well use this signal exchange system. Not now - so in the near future!

To be continued ...
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  1. Curious
    Curious 23 November 2017 15: 53 New
    +8
    Let's start from a distance, with philosophy. In the methodology of systems and management processes there is such a thing as a “cognitive situation”. Today’s article is a good illustration of this concept, or rather, not even the concept itself, but such a component as “cognitive difficulty”.
    To paraphrase the unforgettable Ostap Ibrahimovic, what is, comrades, a cognitive situation and what is a cognitive difficulty? Cognitive situation is a broad characteristic of cognitive activity aimed at the subject of research, as well as the conditions for its implementation. Cognitive difficulty is the gap between the problem posed and the insufficient scientific means available to solve it.
    What we have. We have an attempt to present the development prospects (cognitive situation) of small arms (research subject). Well, the cognitive difficulty is the lack of the necessary tools (i.e., in this case, special knowledge) to solve it. In other words, there is no necessary volume of theory, which makes it possible to compose a whole idea of ​​the problem.
    Well, as they say, everyone can evaluate the result for himself.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 01: 56 New
      +1
      You think! "Special knowledge" is not enough! So what ?! Academies did not finish, but to buzz hotz!
    2. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 26 January 2018 14: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Curious
      In other words, there is no necessary volume of theory, which makes it possible to compose a whole idea of ​​the problem.

      gives an idea of ​​a fictitious problem. If you already started talking, then speak to the end.
  2. prodi
    prodi 23 November 2017 16: 51 New
    +2
    Yes, there is no particular need for the progress of small arms. They try to fight remotely, the human carcass has not become stronger, except that the bronics spoil the idyll
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 23 November 2017 18: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: prodi
      no special need for small arms progress

      I agree. In a situation where the share of participation of individual small arms in modern conflicts does not exceed 10% - what innovations in this industry can we talk about?
      There is no incentive for development! only a handful of specialists are interested in a high-quality individual shooter - and they certainly get it. The rest is enough machine gun design of the 70s, just in new plastic and with a new scope. Well, you can still put a microchip in there, for control / reporting.
      All.
      Troops do not reflect the onset of crowds of zerg, individual small arms practically do not affect the outcome of modern combat.
      Even tanks no longer influence ... Similarly, the legacy of the 70s is being modernized.
  3. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 23 November 2017 16: 52 New
    +3
    But this is already more interesting .. I completely agree with you that disposable weapons can become massive. Even if in 3D printers impose any restrictions on the "printing" of weapons, they will hack, bypass protection, etc.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 23 November 2017 18: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Razvedka_Boem
      that disposable weapons can become massive
      could ... If there was a year in the yard, some kind of 80th of the last century.
      Not now. Total control - cameras, logs, BigDate. Programs analyzing and recognizing a person are no longer even by their faces, but by their ... gait!

      So no - society is gradually, but plannedly and inevitably moving toward total control of everything and everything (and this is actually not bad - as long as you are law-abiding bully ) Any pistols printed on a 3D printer will not affect anything. Catch, and arrange demonstrative decimation.

      PS: and even the terrorists do not particularly need it - they have a good nightmare on rented minibuses and gas-oxygen cylinders.
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 23 November 2017 19: 42 New
        0
        PS: and even the terrorists do not particularly need it

        Why do you immediately think about terrorists? ..)
        With the further development of 3D printing technology, it will be possible to "print" everything - the article considers only one aspect - weapons, in fact, almost everything can be done this way - from houses to clothes and much more, including weapons.
        If possible, I would not refuse to make a crossbow or a hunting rifle .. Even if it will be a couple of dozen shots .. But the very possibility is to do it at home, without machine tools .. It's just fantastic ..)
        So far, the capabilities of 3D printing are limited by the available materials and price, but it is steadily declining. In principle, right now, a small 3D printer can afford a person of average means.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 23 November 2017 18: 33 New
    +2
    The magazine "Soldier of Fortune" N10,1996g. The article is dedicated to the brainchild of Mike O'Dwyer and his company Metal Storm so-called cartridge weapons from hand to ship installations. Pay attention to the publication date more than 20 years have passed and we are talking about already tested and tested samples on the manufacture of which took another 5 to 10 years. The militaries for such an innovation have still remained unanimous. The only plus, in my opinion, is a truly innovative approach to the development of firearms, a departure from traditional automation schemes. Emen 3D technology, which gave a big boost to the dissemination of this principle!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 23 November 2017 21: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: andrewkor
      The military has remained indifferent to such an innovation.

      Yes, because they climbed the wrong way. They set themselves an ambitious, but stupid task, to replace the classic models of small arms. Just like Kuchevsky-Tukhachevsky. And I had to set myself the task of "complementing"
      After all, "metalstorm" still has a niche. These are situations when it is necessary to create ultrahigh densities of fire during episodic use.
      Offhand, as a system of protection against ambushes, a wonderful thing. Smarter than hanging Claymore mines on armor or inserting grenades into the mortars that shoot off aerosol cartridges of HE.
      Or a system for "close defense" from drones and barrage of ammunition.
      1. Vovanya
        Vovanya 23 November 2017 21: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        After all, "metalstorm" still has a niche. These are situations when it is necessary to create ultrahigh densities of fire during episodic use.

        Metalstorm is the most unpromising weapon; it has several patrimonial incorrigible problems that completely kill the possibility of its combat use. You can spit out a lot of smooth trunks with a lot of bullets, but not far and inaccurate, but holding on to such a weapon certainly will not work. It is possible that the Claymore will be more effective.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 23 November 2017 21: 53 New
          +3
          Quote: Vovanya
          You can spit out a lot of smooth trunks with a lot of bullets, but not far and inaccurate, but holding on to such a weapon certainly will not work. It is possible that the Claymore will be more effective.

          Firstly, “far and sure” is not at all necessary. As there is no one to hold, the narot is busy 8)))
          In Rhodesia against ambushes, they successfully used this:

          The driver simply pressed a button, and the device huddled both curbs until the ammunition in the store was completely exhausted. This made it possible to suppress the "ambushes" with fire and slip through a dangerous area at high speed. To fight with an ambush "on the forehead" is a very stupid idea that has not justified itself in practice.
          And there were such systems, there are generally ordinary 12-gauge pipes and cartridges with buckshot.
          The task is the same, suppressing "ambush" fire
          1. Curious
            Curious 23 November 2017 22: 28 New
            +3
            And there were more.

            Tu-2Sh with PPSh-41 battery
            The chief of the OKB armament brigade A.V. Nadashkevich and the leading engineer S.I. Saveliev in 1944 proposed the use of submachine guns designed by G.S. Shpagin when attacking enemy infantry convoys. For this purpose, a platform was designed on which 88 PPSh assault rifles were fixed (11 rows of 8 trunks each). The whole system is called "PPSh battery." Each machine had a magazine with 71 rounds of 7,62 mm caliber. In the fighting position, the battery was rigidly mounted in the Tu-2 bomb bay. During the attack, the pilot opened the bomber’s flaps and, using a special sight, fired heavily at the enemy. For reloading, the platform with the PPSh fell down on the cables.
            If you put a couple of these in the back, an ambush will turn into a mince.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 November 2017 22: 55 New
              +4
              Quote: Curious
              If you put a couple of these in the back, an ambush will turn into a mince.

              The task "in foreshack", in principle, is not worth it. You just need to prevent the notorious "three grenade launchers" from aiming

              Well, this option is not particularly adequate for specific conditions. They also have to constantly maintain, clean, re-equip disks, sorry, now-shops.
              And "metalstorm" practically doesn’t need anything like that. Two checks: for tightness and integrity of "start-up circuits". And that’s it.
              1. Vovanya
                Vovanya 23 November 2017 23: 25 New
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                And "metalstorm" practically doesn’t need anything like that. Two checks: for tightness and integrity of "start-up circuits". And that’s it.

                You somewhat idealize the "metal storm" - at first glance, really, everything is beautiful and elegant. But ... did not want to write much, but you forced me to give a more detailed criticism of this weapon:
                The total recoil force from many shots fired at a very high rate of fire will be so high that it will require cardinal reinforcement and weighting of the mounting structure of the firing unit or equipment with a complex reaction compensation system for recoil.
                The difficulty of eliminating the possibility of unauthorized ignition of the next, after ignited, propellant charge when fired.
                The difficulty of reloading the system with long charges in battle, requiring the cessation of firing.
                The difficulty of reloading an incompletely fired ammunition in the barrel, which will require additional time for removal, or it has finished an un shot ammunition and replacing it with a full ammunition.
                The use of tubular shells for this installation will cause them to inflate and press them against the walls of the barrel when the propellant is ignited, which, in turn, will cause a high level of barrel heat from high friction when the shell moves.
                Overheating of the trunks from intense firing will lead to the impossibility of reloading the shellless ammunition in the hot "chamber" of the trunks, which will take time to cool them.
                The complexity of obturation of shells in the barrel when equipping a system of alternating electrical ignition of several successively installed propelling charges with electric igniters.
                To disperse the projectile in order to obtain high energy to hit the target and increase the firing range, you will need a long barrel, but at an excessively high rate of fire, the speed of the shells moving one after another in a long barrel will be low due to counteraction to the acceleration of the projectile by residual pressure in the barrel from of the previous shot, which will not allow to obtain the necessary projectile speed and, accordingly, the firing range and high damaging effect.
                It is difficult to use rifled trunks for this system because the presence of a long smooth-bore section of the "chamber" and the rifled leading part of the barrel will require solving the problem of a sharp change in the nature of the movement of the second and subsequent shells, since the location of their leading belts will be located at a great distance from the beginning of the rifling of the barrel, which will cause a significant acceleration of the projectile during firing and will give it inertia, so the transition from translational motion to translational-rotational is fraught with cutting the leading belt to the size of the caliber, or the leading belt must be hard enough , but it will reduce the survivability of the trunk.
                The difference between the diameters of the threaded part of the barrel and the smooth part of the chamber will require the installation of leading devices in the front and rear of the projectile, which will increase friction. Installation of one leading belt will force the projectile to be located in a smooth chamber with a bias, which, when the projectile picks up speed in the threaded section of the barrel, will cause shocks and vibration of the installation.
                This is probably not all the disadvantages. There are much simpler solutions.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 23 November 2017 23: 55 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Vovanya
                  Total recoil force from multiple shots

                  Spit. "Typhoon-K" weighs 21 tons, "Typhoon-Airborne" -11 tons. Sustained.
                  Quote: Vovanya
                  The difficulty of eliminating the possibility of unauthorized ignition of the next, after ignited, propellant charge when fired.

                  Why eliminate it?

                  Quote: Vovanya
                  The difficulty of reloading the system with long charges in battle, requiring the cessation of firing.

                  Spit. There will be no reloading during battle. For this there is a landing weapon and a combat module.

                  Quote: Vovanya
                  Difficulty reloading an incompletely shot ammunition in the barrel

                  What's so complicated? Just send to the factory for reloading.

                  ===
                  Well and so on. All the questions answer one "do not care"
                  In short, it is not necessary to require the hammer to be able to open the plugs and unscrew the screws.

                  Here is the problem for you. They're driving a pair of Typhoons-K, patrolling the road. A couple of grenade launchers protrude from the bushes in order to "sip". By default, the crews have nothing to answer. Generally.
                  "Landing" fastened to the seats, mines. Only one person in the car watches the curbs. The DUMB operator “grazes” the distant sector, and he, in his best, will not have time to lower his trunk down, at best, in the worst it will be a “dead zone”.
                  What to do to prevent grenade launchers from aiming and firing.
                  1. Vovanya
                    Vovanya 24 November 2017 08: 58 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    All the questions answer one "do not care"

                    This is our way, such as "we did not finish sanatoriums and were not trained in science."
                    Quote: Spade
                    What to do to prevent grenade launchers from aiming and firing.

                    There is a very clever book - called a "combat manual" - there are given answers to all your nonsense.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 24 November 2017 09: 23 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Vovanya
                      This is our way, such as "we did not finish sanatoriums and were not trained in science."

                      Even as trained. So much so that we realize that, for example, a long barrel does not in any way interfere with the movement of bullets with "residual pressure from the previous shot." Who prevents to give a command after the previous bullet has already taken off and the "residual pressure" has become equal to atmospheric?
                      Quote: Vovanya
                      There is a very smart book - called "combat charter"

                      Very clever. And judging by the fact that you mentioned it, you have never read it.
                      You better not get into it, you will start swimming a lot. For I know him clearly better than you.
                      There are only two sentences. Or "open fire and destroy on the go," or "put an aerosol curtain." Without specification
                      So I’m asking you, in this particular situation, by what fire means “to destroy on the move”, because it’s too late to put the curtain.
          2. Vovanya
            Vovanya 23 November 2017 22: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            The driver simply pressed a button, and the device huddled both curbs until the ammunition in the store was completely exhausted. This made it possible to suppress the "ambushes" with fire and slip through a dangerous area at high speed.


            Even for Africa, with their tactical illiteracy, such systems are complete professional madness in the sense of combat use. You need to be a kamikaze to get behind the wheel of such a vehicle, and the Negro instinct for self-preservation is hypertrophically expressed, which makes this development hypothetical.
            The statement about the futility of the metal storm is not refuted.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 November 2017 22: 46 New
              +6
              Quote: Vovanya
              Even for Africa, with their tactical illiteracy, such systems are complete professional madness in the sense of combat use.

              However, this worked, and very successfully. Well, to talk about Rhodesian fighters, as non-professionals, I would beware.
              Quote: Vovanya
              You need to be a kamikaze to get behind the wheel of such a vehicle, and the Negro instinct for self-preservation is hypertrophically expressed, which makes this development hypothetical.

              What, damn it, blacks? The 12-caliber Spider was developed and used not by blacks, but quite the opposite, by white farmers. AK version is army.

              But what about "even for Africa" ​​... Do you even know that all modern MRAPs come from exactly that Rhodesian conflict?
              1. Vovanya
                Vovanya 23 November 2017 23: 06 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                to talk about Rhodesian fighters as non-professionals, I would beware

                Judging by these "inventions", I deeply doubt their professionalism.
                Quote: Spade
                The 12-caliber Spider was developed and used not by blacks, but quite the opposite, by white farmers. AK version is army.

                The farmer, even if he is white, is not a soldier, he is excusable to do stupid things in military affairs. And the “Spider” is an attempt to do something at hand from the means at hand like a directed obstruction mine, but it turned out to be ineffective - believe the former instructor in the mine-demolition business of precisely such a direction.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 23 November 2017 23: 22 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Vovanya
                  Judging by these "inventions", I deeply doubt their professionalism.

                  You just don’t know the story. Therefore, I advise you to read something.

                  Quote: Vovanya
                  The farmer, even if he is white, is not a soldier, he is excusable to do stupid things in military affairs.

                  The price of stupidity in those conditions was life, and not the disapproval of a certain mine explosive instructor. They were really killed. In the sense of death.
                  Quote: Vovanya
                  And the "Spider" is an attempt to do something at hand out of the means at hand like a directional barrage mine, but it turned out to be ineffective

                  8)))))))))))))))))
                  The fact is that they were not going to make a mine, therefore, it is not worth talking about the effectiveness of the Spider as a mine.
                  There is a farmer pickup truck on which he rides into the city on Sundays. There is a road from the city to the farm. There are suspicious bushes along the road and other places convenient for ambushes. There are bandits, sorry, noble rebels who from time to time are sitting in these bushes with the task of expropriating funds and devouring, sorry, to let the struggle against colonialism work.
                  And this farmer is riding along the road, with any suspicious movement in the bushes, using the "spiders" installed on the car and hitting the gas pedal. If instead of ten reloadable cartridges for each such place on every trip he spent a couple of “Claymors”, then he would simply go broke
                  1. Vovanya
                    Vovanya 23 November 2017 23: 35 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    There is a farmer pickup truck on which he rides into the city on Sundays.

                    Quote: Spade
                    And this farmer is riding along the road, with any suspicious movement in the bushes, using the "spiders" installed on the car and hitting the gas pedal.

                    Are they all crazy there?
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 24 November 2017 09: 30 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Vovanya
                      Are they all crazy there?

                      They were no crazier than the Cossacks of the "cordon lines" of the Caucasus
          3. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 01: 49 New
            +1
            M-d-ah! Bones of the creators of the "death organs" 16 century. and the "paws of death" of the 18 century turn over in coffins!
          4. Doliva63
            Doliva63 27 November 2017 00: 16 New
            +4
            Gee! laughing Not in terms of blaming, but in terms of sharing experience, to pull. Imagine a stretch of desert, a road (or rather, a rutted track stupidly). The closest shelter for the ambush is single bushes a hundred meters away. How to be The solution is stupid - they dug a trench across the ruts to the width of the wheel, disguised the soul, lay in the bushes. A truck appeared, flew into the pit so that they “disconnected” not only in the cab, but also in the back. The car remained on the move, as required. What does the driver oppose to the inquisitive brain of a Soviet soldier? laughing drinks
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 27 November 2017 08: 15 New
              +2
              When I arrived on my first officer leave after graduation, local experienced uncles, led by my father, began to give me the necessary advice, because I was going to the North Caucasian Military District and the second war was clearly outlined. There the cumulative experience was enormous, not only the “Afghans”, but also the “Angolans” and other advisers, both still active and military pensioners (a military town of 7 five-story buildings, everyone knows each other)
              And here is one of the things that I almost immediately adopted, having left for a field exit a month after arrival: pits, puddles and other “heterogeneities” on the roadbed are taboo. He drove into the head mechanics and drivers at the level of instinct. For driving through a puddle, the car was considered conditionally blown up with the removal and reinstallation of the goose.
              But in real conditions, after a year and a half, my battery went all the way to our base one, and the second OPTADNovskaya motolyga caught an anti-tank mine with all the consequences at the place of the exit from the road in a puddle. Which was thrown already in the afternoon, because in the morning the sappers checked everything, including this "reservoir"

              It is very difficult to normally mask an open roadbed.
              In terms of sharing experience. In our country, the anti-tank driver on the BRDM once “caught” an ordinary harrow; they did not notice it in the dust. The wheel broke so that it was necessary to hobble on additional ones, no swapping would help.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 02: 12 New
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        After all, "metalstorm" still has a niche

        Why is she still not busy?
        Quote: Spade
        These are situations when it is necessary to create ultrahigh densities of fire during episodic use.

        This is a situation when ...........: "Will he drink a liter? Maybe he will drink, but who will give it to him?"
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 24 November 2017 09: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Why is she still not busy?

          Ambition ... A terrible thing if they are not justified.
          Only the Australians are a little messing around, trying to fit a three-shot "metalstorm" rocket launcher to a promising rifle complex.
          1. First iron-faced
            First iron-faced 26 November 2017 21: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Only the Australians swarm a little ...

            South Koreans also even offer ...
            http://www.sntmotiv.com/eng/business/defense_cata
            log.html
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 26 November 2017 21: 49 New
              +1
              This is not a "metal storm", a store grenade launcher. Many swipe at this, from the Americans (their upper part, grenade launcher, is already being tested in combat conditions, from the lower, "rifle", while plugging) to the Canadians
              1. First iron-faced
                First iron-faced 27 November 2017 06: 59 New
                +1
                Yes, not self-loading Metalstorm, but, in my opinion, also recharging from a box store (XM29 OICW), the same 20x30 mm grenades.
                1. 4thParasinok
                  4thParasinok 26 January 2018 13: 57 New
                  0
                  Quote: First iron-faced
                  Yes, not self-loading Metalstorm, but, in my opinion, also recharging from a box store
                  Metalstorm does not have a recharge, only a barrel change, charging is done at the factory. Bullshit is complete.
        2. Grid
          Grid 26 November 2017 09: 32 New
          +1
          Why is she still not busy?

          Because this 21st Century Espinoli has more disadvantages than advantages. By and large, it is only suitable for low ballistic systems, such as underbarrel grenade launchers or remote mining systems. For nothing more.
      3. tchoni
        tchoni 2 December 2017 16: 01 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Offhand, as a system of protection against ambushes, a wonderful thing. Smarter than hanging Claymore mines on armor or inserting grenades into the mortars that shoot off aerosol cartridges of HE.
        Or a system for "close defense" from drones and barrage of ammunition.

        It's a bit late. The Americans are already serving this purpose. And for air defense there is a goalkeeper. and metal spit the sea and maintain a certain accuracy. which is important. And a metal storm, forgive me, but somehow I do not believe in its accuracy.
  5. shinobi
    shinobi 23 November 2017 19: 31 New
    +1
    For a quality jerk, you need a new cartridge. Intermediate to the intermediate one. Less automatic, but comparable in power. In an urban battle, assault rifles are redundant. PP is not powerful enough. 3D printing is interesting, of course, but here is another target niche.
    1. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 26 January 2018 13: 54 New
      0
      Quote: shinobi
      For a high-quality jerk, you need a new cartridge. Intermediate to intermediate. Less automatic, but comparable in power.

      lol An intermediate cartridge is called not because of size, but because of power ... What you offer is the most common intermediate cartridge that will increase the cost of weapons, and, as an option, also mass ...
  6. groks
    groks 23 November 2017 19: 54 New
    +4
    The store is lighter than a block of barrels with the appropriate amount of ammunition, the corresponding power. Now they are also plastic, and the load on them is incomparably less. The barrel block should be long enough to accelerate the bullet - will there be contraption 400 mm? Heavy, because there must be strength. Even for single use.
    For special weapons, yes. As presented by the author - silent, sleeveless, leaving no traces of gunpowder when fired at point blank range. Self-destructive, although even upon detection it will be difficult to establish reliably that this particular weapon was used. Not only that - you can equip pallets with pre-shot bullets from the required weapons. In general, this is for those guys whose emblem is similar to Bacardi. And due to the specificity of their activities, it is impossible to say with certainty that they no longer use something like that. wink
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 23 November 2017 21: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: groks
      For special weapons - yes, silent, sleeveless, leaving no traces of gunpowder when fired at point blank range. Self-destructive, although even upon detection it will be difficult to establish reliably what kind of weapon it is

      exactly. The weapons of illegal liquidators.
      And then, only after 30-40 years, when it will be possible to talk about the widespread introduction of 3D printers in everyday life (and people will download programs, and print all the little things at home). Then some “eraser” will be able to enter the master code, and quickly bungle a gun or a grenade.
  7. Alceers
    Alceers 23 November 2017 20: 01 New
    +4
    Again the caliber of his ravings fell out. Diluting them with a very sensible translation review from the foreign press. And again I came up with a new biography. The rural teacher. That means how he mowed the army ... But at the same time, his soul hurt for the combat readiness of the armed forces ... You can’t hide the rottenness of nature ..
    1. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 26 January 2018 13: 49 New
      0
      and you read how he tried to answer you, as always: "... and I'm here alone D'Artagnan" ...
  8. kalibr
    23 November 2017 21: 11 New
    +3
    Quote: groks
    Not only that - you can equip pallets with pre-shot bullets from the required weapons.

    This idea is just brilliance!
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 23 November 2017 21: 31 New
      +1
      still in SP-3 was
    2. groks
      groks 24 November 2017 17: 58 New
      +1
      In general, Conan Doyle had it all. Air rifle firing revolving bullets.
      But to substitute an objectionable politician (for example), you can, having gained access to the fired bullets - in the West they love it. Sleeves in the same place. Or even to the trunk for a short while. Surely also beaten in fiction.
  9. kalibr
    23 November 2017 21: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: Alceers
    You can’t hide the rottenness of nature ..

    The first time I hear that to follow exactly the spirit and letter of the law means to expose the rottenness of nature. And to violate the law does this mean to demonstrate high decency and integrity of nature? Did you learn this from the scoop?
  10. mac789
    mac789 23 November 2017 21: 22 New
    +1
    It's funny ... Although if instead of using polypropylene a torlon reinforced with nanofibers is used ... As for the bullet arrows with drop-down stabilizers ... That is the best solution. Cheaper and more technological. Allows you to bring the accuracy of almost any double-barreled shotgun to the SVD, and the damaging effect to the underbarrel grenade launcher.
    1. Vovanya
      Vovanya 23 November 2017 22: 43 New
      0
      Quote: mac789
      Allows you to bring the accuracy of almost any double-barreled shotgun to the SVD, and the damaging effect to the underbarrel grenade launcher.

      Curious what kind of a miracle weapon? Maybe enlighten?
      1. mac789
        mac789 24 November 2017 10: 00 New
        0
        What are you all curious ... Give them nanotubes ... Can you manage the water pipes? ... As I said simply, cheaply and technologically. Any shotgun will do. And Saiga ... In short, I’ll wait for a big boil ... According to statistics, it happens every hundred years ... Almost like clockwork ... In Dobass it might be useful, but they are not badly supplied. Yes, and there are rumors that there are no special movements ... Swamp ... Minsk ... So we are waiting ...
    2. tracer
      tracer 24 November 2017 03: 23 New
      0
      Well? Where is the sequel? Did you mean nano-bolts with nanogas in a nanotube? And set fire to the end?
      1. mac789
        mac789 24 November 2017 10: 06 New
        0
        Maybe you still have to provide the drawings, my friend? ... This is an excuse for an almost ready patent ... Although it is not a pity for Dobass. I'll give it back. And not only this.
        1. robo spirit
          robo spirit 13 December 2017 01: 54 New
          +1
          Another storyteller in our latitudes ... Konoprav there is still. Also a pretty dreamer.
          My friend, how do you get accuracy from a smoothbore, like in SVD? Further 150-200 m with a smooth trunk, with all desire, will not work. Increase the weight of black powder? Will tear the trunks. Use a slow burning nitrocellulose? Will tear the trunks. Will you lane the trunks? Then where does the manufacturability? It is easier and cheaper to take SVD. A striking effect close to the grenade launcher? So his action on a single open target is so-so. The fragments are small, they will not take the simplest bronik. Or are you going to cram a bunch of feathered arrows in a hunting cartridge? So there were such exotic options. And do not really channel. It’s simpler, cheaper, and more technological to smooth out buckshot from a smooth-barrel.
          In general, this is how to make a tank out of a bicycle. Easier and cheaper - a finished tank.
          This I offhand examined the potential of such a rework. I am sure I will spend an hour, there are a couple of dozen objections to your idea.
  11. beeper
    beeper 24 November 2017 01: 36 New
    +3
    It was inspired from those times: a natural science teacher took the younger students to the forest on an excursion and met a hedgehog on the path. The teacher says: “Children, this is the one I told you so much about!” - Little Johnny leaned towards the hedgehog: “So what are you, grandfather Lenin ?!”
    So what is this military unit ?! I guessed about something like that winked
    Also from there letters, essentially polite replies, were received in response to their appeals (when I was still a student, the “technical and youthful” story of Stechkin’s diplomacy really sank into my heart in my childhood — I wanted to “make the Motherland cool” instead of a “banal gearbox” "a small-sized automatic machine for the crews of military vehicles and, as it turned out later, at the same time (whatever you say, but the general information field is a reality, I was convinced more than once!))) a secret competition was held for such an automatic machine ...) in the Ministry of Defense USSR in the name of D.F.Ustinov. Then I wrote directly to this address smile It was remembered that from there, from the military unit, they “rubbed” about exclusively collective creativity and that lone constructors allegedly are not able to create small arms, they say, they do not need extraneous “talents” .... wink Well, it’s not necessary, it’s not necessary, I have the principle: “if art is not necessary to me, then why do I need it”, because there are still many interesting things in life smile .
    But aviation and weapons approaches in design and technology have always helped me, in my civilian specialty and in everyday life, to create lightweight and practical designs that are technologically advanced in manufacture and with good weight return ...
    Thank you, Dear Vyacheslav Shpakovsky, for an interesting story on Topvar.ru and for your "Tankmaster", books and articles on modeling!
    hi
    1. kalibr
      24 November 2017 08: 16 New
      +1
      Thanks to you, too! So I assumed that someone would respond to this and write about their experience in communicating with the “organization”. And so I was not deceived. Once again I’m convinced that Confucius was right when he said, “Unshakably do the right thing, but the truth will find you.” Of course, here at VO there are even people who will consider you my clone or cartoon, well, yes, I think you and I will survive it!
      1. beeper
        beeper 24 November 2017 21: 50 New
        +4
        And why not respond, Dear Vyacheslav! smile
        I have always, from ancient times, been impressed by your articles on technology and modeling, and, partly, on the ideas of your book (the one on technical creativity) I made toys for my son yes
        As a tanker, by military specialty, and as a modeler (I started in my pre-school childhood with planing planes and rifles from pieces of wood, the magazine “Small Models” and plastic sets ...) I really liked yours, also “samizdatovsky”, “Tankomaster” of the 90s ... I always followed with interest, and I follow wink , for your Creativity, it reminds me in style of the most interesting articles of the Dear Oleg Zholondkovsky (Eternal Memory to this Inventor with a capital letter!), the permanent Author of the Technics-Youth and Inventor and Rationalizer magazines.
        And I don’t worry at all about who and what will think about me smile, after all, under the Union (when the “good-natured” intriguers sought to “catch the tongue” and clung to every word, then sought to “twist” in their interests and “brand” smile ) I was not afraid to stand for a just cause and express my opinion, even if it went against the "party attitudes" and the "opinion of the collective" - ​​Confucius was absolutely right! yes
        Regarding communication with the “organization” I’ll be honest, having received such an “answer-asshole” for the first time, I was certainly upset in my best patriotic feelings ... but, “what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger”? winked ! Somewhere in my old papers I met these strict envelopes with official answers, probably still preserved ... in my youth I had a desire to write a book in the style of "Twelve Chairs" about our time and, including, satirically describe our design "twists and turns" smile
        Also suggested that I was not the only one was- "rejected" winked in contact with the state bureaucracy and the formalism of the "organizations" of the USSR Ministry of Defense ... that I have brothers in "misfortune" wink !
        Creative Success to you, Vyacheslav, and Good Health! I am always your grateful reader, I am always interested in your point of view!
        hi
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 25 November 2017 20: 45 New
            +8
            Quote: kalibr
            Proven stupid people 80%

            Damn, where are the cons ???
            By the way, one letter in a nickname is not enough for you, IMHO.
            “And” at the end, and everything would be exactly laughing
            Adjusted for your literacy, it would just be right for what you need.
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 27 November 2017 03: 45 New
          +1
          Somehow it happened that I re-read your comment after a certain time .... and something "hurt". I remembered how I was carried away by "designing" back in my school years: no matter what "techno device" comes across " eyes "(or in little hands ... wink ) -I tried to add (invent) something of my own ... I confess ..... not everything that "crossed my mind" was advisable. "Favorite skate" was "construction" in military subjects. Through friends, fathers whom were officers, had access to various military journals, including those of a technical profile. Later, it even came to the point that he sent his "searchlights" to the editorial boards of military-technical magazines. The answers came "appropriate": with "hardly hidden a grin "... Of course, was it worth talking about it now ?! The fact is that, after many years, I sometimes met in the descriptions of the latest foreign military developments, developments based on ideas that I "expressed" once ... Of course, between an idea and a real development, more, with a finished construction, “lies a great distance”, but it starts, nevertheless, with an idea ... Over time, the “twinkle of techno-creativity” went out in me. Unless, back in Soviet times, when the enterprise had to report to a higher department about fulfillment of the plan for submitting rational proposals, they contacted me ... and later, (in the 90 years ), when foreign technologies (SCS, Ethernet, LAN ....) “poured” into the country, when new materials began to appear and they had to be worked with, but often there wasn’t enough “tools” for working with new materials — the habit of “engineering” "great helped me then! But I have long been silent about the past hobby - “designing in military subjects”, even ashamed of it. And only recently, having seen that there are people who are not ashamed of their hobbies, I started talking about it.
  12. AshiSolo
    AshiSolo 24 November 2017 02: 46 New
    +1
    For the third part, I got involved and already enjoy. Game, but sound :)
  13. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 03: 14 New
    +2
    So the microchips in the bullets of this gun may well use this signal exchange system. Not now - so in the near future!
    How cute! Only now .... the idea is not new! (see film: “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?”) By the way, the result of “signal exchange” in the film is very “symptomatic” .....
    1. Grid
      Grid 25 November 2017 18: 31 New
      0
      How cute! Only now .... the idea is not new!

      I remembered a movie from the late 80s, "Robot Hunters" was called, if sclerosis does not change me ...
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 26 November 2017 07: 49 New
        +1
        Quote: Grille
        80's film, Robot Hunters, was called

        I have not watched this film, but, as I understand it, the question is, one way or another, about “smart” bullets ... You can talk about it with irony, with a “chuckle” or, conversely, very seriously; but .... somehow I noticed that the topic: "microminiaturization-microcomputerization-,
        , microelectronics, "they are now trying to" shove "all the attributes of our life and activity, not" asking "questions: 1. ,, Is it necessary ?, and: 2. ,, Is it always possible ?, According to 2 fad ... if briefly: Godzilla can crush a “hammer” or Cyclops Odyssey with a paw .... what will a “midget” do if an “order” arrives: crush a “hammer”? ... because, as you know, the “midget” "...... legs are thinner than buttercup !? Ie .... is it worth it to rely on" microminiaturization ", if" microminiaturization "can have practical limitations? wink
        1. Grid
          Grid 26 November 2017 09: 26 New
          +1
          1. ,, Is it necessary ?, and: 2. ,, Is it always possible ?,

          1. Absolutely not. In many cases, it is not just technically unjustified, but simply dangerous.
          2. And hell knows. Miniaturization on the march. How long has a cell phone weighed 16 kg?
        2. Grid
          Grid 26 November 2017 14: 38 New
          0
          https://zona.mobi/movies/ohota-na-robotov
  14. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 24 November 2017 03: 39 New
    +3
    Kamrad! As I understand you! It seems that the cockroaches in our heads are from the same masonry! Since adolescence, what types of weapons I have not designed! The thought particularly puzzled me: is it possible in the 17-18 centuries to boil down weapons with modern "gadgets": multi-shot, quick-fire, breech
    aryadny, self-loading ...... Site popadantsev-resting! (Yes, he wasn’t there then ...) And he designed the electric pistol! Only without the "dial switch"! And so it’s all one: both the charges in the barrel and they were fired sequentially with the rate of fire of a self-loading pistol, but they could fire in one burst ... And all this without any electronics ... by means of a battery and a capacitor (well, a trigger-lock) .... So ... there was a metal storm in the project!
    1. kalibr
      25 November 2017 20: 30 New
      +1
      I understand you too. But 80% of people are not able to understand either you or me - so we can only console ourselves with this! But ... I will tell you a little "secret". Some of the writing went ... to the novel "Pareto Law", published in Germany. Now it can be downloaded from us in Russia and read. Do this, it will be interesting for you to read it ... And part of what is written + the most fun comments ... will go to another book, which is still being written.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 26 November 2017 07: 00 New
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Some of the writing went ... to the novel "Pareto Law", published in Germany. Now it can be downloaded from us in Russia and read.

        I will deal with this .... Your proposal interested me. hi
  15. kalibr
    24 November 2017 08: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: Vovanya
    Overheating of the trunks from intense firing will lead to the impossibility of reloading the shellless ammunition in the hot "chamber" of the trunks, which will take time to cool them.

    But this actually only seems so! An example of formal logic. The fact is that around each trunk with a bullet there are channels. Cross-cutting. When fired, gases fly out of the barrel and create traction. And the cartridge is cooling. The less intense the firing, the more intense the cooling. That's all. And where did you see the gunfire? Statistics show ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED BY THE FIRST THREE SHOTS. Or do not dare ha ha. In any case, the gun is a status weapon! So is it worth the status of 1,5 kg of stainless steel and 6 kg of chips?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Grid
      Grid 25 November 2017 18: 34 New
      0
      But this actually only seems so!

      When it seems, you need to be baptized.
      1. kalibr
        25 November 2017 20: 28 New
        0
        Nothing more to say? I understand that such a smart mechanical engineer, and they publish some ... they give grants, they print books ... but I'm honest, understanding everything, self-sufficient and still missing something, huh? But it will continue to be so, that’s the thing. To you to engineer, to me to write, in real life our paths will never intersect. Is it that you will be taken as an expert at the RFBR? But this is unlikely ...
        1. Grid
          Grid 25 November 2017 20: 29 New
          +1
          Nothing more to say?

          Yes there is something ...
          But not in pig feed.
          1. kalibr
            26 November 2017 10: 43 New
            0
            Well, write interesting material for VO, believe me, this will be the best answer.
            1. Grid
              Grid 26 November 2017 14: 34 New
              +1
              Dear, I just have no such leisure. You see, besides you, peesateli, some people have to work ... The funny thing is that you, peesateli, should be supported.
              And since you don’t perceive critics in principle, it’s not a pig feed.
              1. kalibr
                26 November 2017 19: 12 New
                0
                This is fair. Who should be engaged in heavy physical labor at a time when others are working their heads? But you have enough leisure for comments and clicks. Good and that. As they say - with a black sheep and wool shred!
                1. Grid
                  Grid 27 November 2017 14: 37 New
                  +1
                  while others are working their heads?

                  I remembered:

                  by the way, she worked her head ...
    3. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 26 January 2018 13: 40 New
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      An example of formal logic.

      formal logic acts only in philosophy, in technology it is erroneous. You had bad teachers ... Although not a fact, not always everything rests on teachers. recourse
  16. First iron-faced
    First iron-faced 24 November 2017 08: 31 New
    +2
    In Belgium, the FN 2001 modular system was created in 2000. It is also a hybrid of a rifle and a grenade launcher ...

    What is the hybrid then? The usual 40x46-mm removable grenade launcher, even a photo of a standard rifle with an interchangeable fore-end.
    1. Grid
      Grid 25 November 2017 18: 36 New
      +1
      Well, for the author’s hybrid ...
      It’s just that he never in his life held the AK-74 with a grenade launcher, and didn’t even hear about this:
  17. Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 25 November 2017 20: 42 New
    +8
    Quote: kalibr
    Engineering you, write to me

    You do not know how to do either.
    Therefore, here and stick around. Day. And with geese.
    IMHO, naturally request
    1. kalibr
      26 November 2017 10: 38 New
      0
      Zhek! Who are you here? Participant! And I'm a journalist. So take part! Want to try to write something - you are welcome! But only without imagination. Usually from 10.00 to 7.00 I sleep. You can check the time of the last and first comment. So "days" is an exaggeration. And exaggerating is not good! And again, Zhek, your opinion doesn’t matter to me so you don’t write. Comments, you know, generally exist only so that people let off steam and come in more often. And that’s all ...
      1. Grid
        Grid 26 November 2017 14: 28 New
        0
        Usually from 10.00 to 7.00 I sleep.

        So you are awake only three hours a day? I precipitated.
        1. kalibr
          26 November 2017 19: 09 New
          0
          It was necessary to write from 22.00. But I think you already understood.
          1. Grid
            Grid 27 November 2017 14: 39 New
            0
            Do not understand. Alas, I’m especially stubborn and read what they write to me, even people like you.
      2. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok 26 January 2018 13: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Who are you here? Participant! And I'm a journalist ...
        neighing and immediately remembered the anecdote: "... a Chukchi writer, not a reader." . What am I interested in, is Sdes proud if you write nonsense.? Yes, nothing. And on the account of the writer, well, I was a couple of times in a paper newspaper for a while in articles on a technical topic as early as 20 years ago. But it turns out that in comparison with you, I am a journalist.
        Normal people do not boast of this and do not credit this to themselves.
        You must be able to write real articles, and such as an issue is simply a waste of both your time and the time of readers.
        Quote: kalibr
        Your opinion doesn’t matter to me so you don’t write.

        so it looks like it’s time for a psychiatrist to visit you. There’s a reason.
    2. Grid
      Grid 26 November 2017 14: 30 New
      0
      Who are you here?

      "Get up when the second lieutenant speaks to you!"
      You still do not understand who you are talking to?
  18. Alexey Gusev_2
    Alexey Gusev_2 10 December 2017 16: 41 New
    0
    something like that in the model designer in the 70s
  19. 4thParasinok
    4thParasinok 26 January 2018 13: 15 New
    0
    [quoteContinuation follows ...] [/ quote] Thank you, but NOT NECESSARY, couch theorists who have no practice and do not understand what the weapon is intended for.