Military Review

Sturmgever and stamping. The truth about the Kalashnikov machine gun (End)

158
Sturmgever and stamping. The truth about the Kalashnikov machine gun (End)



3 stamp. Because of the inherent (innate, inherent, etc.) technological backwardness, Soviet industry failed to master the production of stamped receiver boxes, which had to be made by milling them from forgings, which led to monstrous consumption of metal.

If we talk about the embarrassment that allegedly happened to Izhmash, who were not “dumb” to withstand the necessary quality of “stamping,” then the authors of these statements themselves are in this state. The name of confident users, “experts”, analysts and other experts is legion, people who do not just know machine-building production, but also know the incredible burden of mastering the new production directly on their skin (Note. The author of the article refers to such lucky ones). What actually happened with the replacement of the stamped box on the milled AK-47? Pay attention - only the boxes, the rest of the details did not concern, but the conclusion is made global - for the whole of the Soviet "stamping" as a technology as a whole.

First let's turn to the construction. The stem box in the AK is not a milled bolt box with a pressed casing, as in a sturmgevere. In the German machine for the direction of the slide frame, for the basing of the store and mounting for optics, for the location of parts USM responsible for different stamped parts. When assembling them, it is easy to fit the mallet (this is such a wooden hammer), while losing the interchangeability of parts, as the Americans rightly noticed. In the Kalashnikov assault rifle, all of this is placed in a single stamped box with a large number of additional riveted parts, including a barrel liner. Its complexity not at times, but An order of magnitude higher than the receiver of the Sturmgever Of the two parts, of which only one is stamped and does not carry any functions, except for installing the sighting parts and the direction of the bolt carrier. In a stamped box and without the use of mine. That's cool.

Hereinafter quotes from the book A.A. Malimon's "Domestic machines":

During the period of preparation for military trials conducted at the test site, it was found that when shooting from a machine gun with an emphasis on the shop, the accuracy of shooting is almost 2,5 times better than from hand. It does not deteriorate the strength of the store and the reliability of the product.


Conclusion in AK (and SVD) of all functional mechanics in one box and providing easy access to it with incomplete and complete disassembly without the use of tools, is one of those few excellent engineering solutions that together create a design masterpiece of a Kalashnikov assault rifle. Similar technical solutions, when all the functionality is assembled into one core and at the same time provides a flexible expansion and development of the system at the expense of thoughtful interfaces, can be found in other areas, even in programming. Of course, debugging such a kernel of the system takes much more time (see the statement of Guderian). But later, when a reliable optics bracket appeared on the forged receiver, interchangeability appeared on the receiver cover, folding sideways, butt grenade launchers appeared, inside the trigger retarder appeared, all this did not lead to a significant alteration of the technology or the design of the machine (!) .

An experimental batch of Kalashnikov assault rifles was manufactured at the Izhevsk Motozavod and sent to field testing, which it did not stand up to. Among the comments were comments to the receiver. After revision weapon went on military trials and at the same time on Izhmash began pre-production. According to the results of military tests, 228 design changes were made (almost two changes per detail) and 114 technological changes. Simultaneous modification of the product design and development of equipment for its production is not in itself sugar. But the task was even steeper, on old squares using part of old equipment and not at all stamping machines from Hönel's company (which did not exist in nature), an unprecedented production was created with production volumes over half a million vending machines per year - providing holy-holy engineering interchangeability. And this production required new technologies, autolines, which were yet to be created.

The plant had extensive experience in the development and mass production of large-caliber small arms and guns accumulated during the Great Patriotic War, but the plant did not have practice in the production of medium-caliber automatic weapons. Factory designers and technologists, chemists and metallurgists had to acquire it during the development of a new product.


In other words, it was necessary to create technology that did not yet exist in the world, but for now it was necessary to use outdated machines and universal equipment, for which one also needed its own equipment, which also had to be designed and manufactured, and, most importantly, it was required to let out automatic machines.

At that time there was no German, American, or any other alien “punching”, so that it would be possible to start the production of a product that was not there before. It is quite natural that difficulties arose during the development of production. Mastering production is always solving a set of issues that may arise anywhere, both at the production stage and as a result of the combat use of products. The first thing you need to decide is whether the solution to the problem is in the shortcomings or design features, or is it treated by changing technological processes. The solution may not be obvious or there may be several solutions.

In both cases, this requires additional research and experiments, collecting and processing statistics - spending the most valuable resource - time. In total for 1949 a year (the year when the machine was adopted) 700 was amended in the drawings of the machine and the 20% of the production equipment was redone. Finally, there is another factor - human. And this is not about the congenital at the gene level syndrome “maybe it’s okay so” and not about the hands of the assembler trembling with a hangover, although, most likely, this is exactly what lovers imagine to speculate about “production culture”. In wartime, and even now, at a defense plant such deficiencies were treated elementary. It takes time for the worker to start making quality products and not just to do, but to do a lot and qualitatively. In management science, these phenomena are described by curves of "learning" and "experience." And there is another factor, it is little known because of its features. The peculiarity is that the worker develops a skill that cannot be formalized and described in the technical process. Just give an example of stories mastering the production of Maxim machine guns at Izhevsk Motozavod. The machine gun belt made according to the drawings and technical process received from Tula could not pass the military acceptance. I got stuck. I had to deliver girls from Tula, collecting tape on TOZ. The reason turned out to be simple - the girls slightly tightened the ribbon when assembling with a finger.


In production, there was a large dropout of receiver boxes in terms of dimensional characteristics and trunks in terms of chrome plating defects. The stamped-riveted receiver did not possess the necessary rigidity, as a result of which, during its passage through machining operations, the sizes were distorted. She did not possess the necessary strength for riveted connections of the casing and the place of attachment of the butt.
In the manufacture of the box and the assembly of the automaton, the need for a large number of edits of the casing was revealed;


And this despite the fact that:

The scope of supply of products to the customer was strictly described not only by quarters, but also by months, which, taking into account the true state of affairs, created certain tensions in the work of production. Failures and irregularities in the work were most characteristic of the initial period of development of the machine. They were periodically repeated in the future, which led to disruptions in the schedule for the supply of weapons, which caused serious concern on the part of the military department, as it posed a threat to the fulfillment of plans for orders and timely re-equipment of the army with new weapons.




One cannot just take and ensure “parallelism of the box guides with the barrel axis”, draw punch and die drawings, so that after they are manufactured and launched into production, the residual stresses in the metal do not start to be jarred at the fifth or sixth operation after stamping. Not so long ago, I became acquainted with the foundry. Casting is unique, that is, almost all orders for large parts differed in shape and size. The twenty-first century, written heaps of monographs on color casting, a lot of tables and formulas, and I was asked to write an expert system in which the guys would enter the dimensions and configuration of the molded parts, alloy compositions, their melting and pouring modes and the results of metal shrinkage in size and location , in order to gain experience and calculate the shrinkage angles in injection molds, taking into account past heats. The method of "scientific spear" was and remains an unsurpassed way of knowing the world with a view to transforming it for the better. Its essence is in the collection, processing and analysis of statistics, which gradually leads to finding the right solution.

I hope after reading all this, at least some idea of ​​industrial production appeared among those who did not have it.

The war has just ended, requiring unprecedented physical and moral efforts to master new types of weapons and a multiple increase in production. And here is a new challenge. In conditions of wild time trouble, when it is necessary to release weapons, fulfilling the supply plan, when its design is constantly changing, when on some issues there is not only its own, but also international experience, the only right decision is made - a temporary transition to a milled receiver box. It is quite understandable step, which side does not detract from the technical or professional qualifications of those designers and technologists who created the glory of the Soviet machine gun. But any mention in vain of this fact without giving due to the labor feat of these people, at least, is simply disrespectful to them.

Literature and sources:

Dieter Handrich, Sturmgewehr 44.
Dr. Dieter Kappell, Sturmgewer-Patrone 7,92x33
Norbert Moczarski, Die der der Gebrüder Schmeisser in der Waffenfabrik Fa. CG Haenel Suhl 1921-1948
A.S. Yushchenko, submachine guns designed by A.I. Sudayev
From the history of arms. Digest of articles. Kalashnikov Museum
MT Kalashnikov, Notes designer gunsmith
A.A. Malimon, Domestic machines (notes of the gunsmith tester)
DF Ustinov, In the name of victory
V.N. Novikov. On the eve and on the test days
B.L.Vannikov, Notes of the People's Commissar

As well as books by Fedorov, Bolotin, Monetchikov, Nagaev, Chumak, and others.
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  1. alex-cn
    alex-cn 16 November 2017 06: 31 New
    +6
    In the mid-90s I had a chance to talk with a former worker of the "hammer". so she admitted that when checking AK parts for interchangeability, they often had to make the first landing with a mallet, but the machine still worked! Comments are probably not necessary!
    1. brn521
      brn521 16 November 2017 13: 52 New
      +4
      Quote: alex-cn
      but the machine still worked

      It was in the 90s that the first reviews about the presence of defective machine guns in batches that had already passed acceptance and arrived in military units came.
      1. aws4
        aws4 17 November 2017 04: 59 New
        +5
        I will say more I personally used automatic machines of the 90s and said that I was surprised to say nothing .. at that time I was convinced not that it was a marriage but that it was a deliberate deterioration of weapons in order to weaken our army .. I was sure that pests are sitting on factories and troops ... the gap between the ak74 issues 82-86 and ak74m the beginning of the 90s was simply colossal ... I hated ak74m I did not consider this gun it was a miserable semblance of a machine gun ... but even after that throwing and crawling along the plastunsky rolled-out technique strips of dirt and water with ditches a meter filled with water, even these machines did not fail ..
  2. Amurets
    Amurets 16 November 2017 06: 38 New
    25
    It’s impossible just to take and ensure “parallelism of the guide boxes with the axis of the barrel”, to draw drawings of the punch and die so that after they are made and put into production, the residual stresses in the metal do not begin to warp it in the fifth or sixth operation after stamping.

    Bravo author !!!! A bunch of pluses. Here you also need to add warping of parts after heat treatment, possible hardening cracks, and even a bunch of nuances, such as what happened at one of the factories, when there was a massive marriage during hardening only because someone washed their hands with soap in the quenching bath.
    1. 32363
      32363 16 November 2017 22: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Amurets
      because someone washed their hands with soap in a quenching bath.

      is it like to wash your hands in an oil bath?
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 16 November 2017 23: 17 New
        12
        Quote: 32363
        is it like to wash your hands in an oil bath?

        There is quenching in water, in saline, oil, water through oil, oil through water. Each particular type of parts and materials has its own temperature and its own environment. If these conditions are violated, a defect occurs during heat treatment.
        1. d ^ Amir
          d ^ Amir 20 November 2017 18: 47 New
          +4
          To thermists from turners good drinks
          To the author HUGE HUGE RESPECT !!!!!! a long time ago this was not .....
  3. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 16 November 2017 06: 51 New
    16
    The article and the author are a plus! fellow
    The nuances of creating an AK are clearly described, which should remove questions about copying from the German Sturmgevere.
    And about the similarity, I so want to send the know-it-all there, the usual logic gives answers to such questions. “Lada” is also similar to “Mercedes” (and four wheels, the same principle of layout, and the headlights in the front, and the glove box are), but “Lada” is “Lada”, and “Merce” is “Merce” request
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 16 November 2017 07: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: Rurikovich
      And about the similarity, I so want to send the know-it-all there, the usual logic gives answers to such questions. Lada also looks like a Mercedes

      Lada is similar to the Fiat 124. From this car grow "Frets".
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 26 New
        +4
        "Lada" is not like Fiat 124, this is Fiat adapted by Italians to the conditions of the USSR ... For the money, by the way ...
        1. not main
          not main 17 November 2017 23: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: mat-vey
          "Lada" is not like Fiat 124, this is Fiat adapted by Italians to the conditions of the USSR ... For the money, by the way ...

          Everywhere is not true! Fiat-124 is a Lada VAZ-2101. Adapted this machine at the request of the customer. For the money, yes. But after the “penny” there were a lot of models of our own design!
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 18 November 2017 06: 22 New
            +1
            Well, if you are such a "hookmaker", then "Lada" is an export brand ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 17 November 2017 02: 57 New
        +8
        Quote: GspdjGneva
        So let's be honest

        Dear, this is nonsense! Copying without source data and drawings is the same as re-developing. This is the same if your parents would walk in the neighborhood to conceive you.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 17 November 2017 17: 56 New
          +3
          Quote: Timeout
          Dear, this is nonsense!

          Yes, not nonsense, but vulgar stupidity ... "The idea was stolen from a shushpanchik" - it gives out a giant of stupidity ....
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 17 November 2017 20: 35 New
              +2
              And what do you want to say with this picture? What is it useless to explain to you due to design cretinism?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 17 November 2017 20: 57 New
                  +2
                  Quote: GspdjGneva
                  When you watch videos of your beloved UkrTV as 7th graders offer new items in body armor and tank building.

                  And why did ukrTV appear? Fantasy played out? Or was the “Transition to Personality When There Is Nothing to Say" completed in full?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 19 New
                      +3
                      Hmm, it’s still sadder than it seemed at first ... did the citizen hear anything about the Holekov brothers, about the conclusions and recommendations after the MKb-42 tests in the know?
                      And again, where did ukrTV come from? Are fantasies torn from real life?
                      So what is the idea that he “stole”? People are waiting and worried.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: GspdjGneva
            For example: sending after a wound to your hometown for six months for a final cure. Well, maybe this was practiced, but I haven’t heard anywhere else about this.

            So you for all the millions of wounded in the know ...
            Quote: GspdjGneva
            Or: I persuaded the chief at the car-building plant to create a model of the machine.
            What's this???? Try to make a firearm at your factory now)))) They will put nafig. A) the boss allowed ?? Which ?? Banditry in the country! According to the laws of war, judged.

            And about the fact that the military commissar "persuaded" in your universe no longer in the know ... sadness ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 23 New
                +3
                So it means that you are not in the know in your universe, so why then we climb from it into the real world?
          2. mat-vey
            mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 02 New
            +4
            And yet - what kind of “stole” idea? Enlighten at last - I pray and hope ...
          3. mat-vey
            mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 35 New
            +3
            How did your imagination run out ... who said “from scratch” - a citizen in the studio ... Oh yes, Schmeisser invented it from scratch ZB .... Yes, and Bulka from Sudayev and Lewis are all from scratch ... you what are you lying about? Decide ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 17 November 2017 21: 55 New
                +3
                So it means that I don’t know about those tasks and weapon contests .... But is Schmeisser weak in terms of “pieces”? And Bulkin? And Garant? ... Although, given the design cretinism - how can one make a pluggable piston and at the same time recharge it with an attached store? .... "TEAM of designers" means they write about the hospital on the Internet on every fence, but about how everything was already found in Kovrov an impossible task? And about the "nugget" - and Shpagin pulls on the "nugget"? Or in the USSR they took anyone from the street to the designer-gunsmiths - enlighten?
                1. GSPDJGneva
                  GSPDJGneva 17 November 2017 21: 57 New
                  0
                  All) No strength) Remember the saying: 100 wise men will not be able to answer the questions of the 1st fool.
                  Lunatic Bucky houses flow
                  - .. .- .. -...
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 17 November 2017 22: 05 New
                    +4
                    So 1000 will not answer your questions ... fantasies have neither scientific nor logical explanation .... If only I could read Malimon before retelling other people's tales ... He is a direct participant and still alive (for him many years) ...
              2. mat-vey
                mat-vey 17 November 2017 22: 02 New
                +3
                Quote: GspdjGneva
                What else do you care about? Idea?
                Yes, please: infantry weapons under an intermediate cartridge of a certain layout.

                And how Korobov with his "lineup" before the competition allowed?
                Quote: GspdjGneva
                gave those task to do the same, but preferably better.

                Which means that the Soviet leadership "betrayed" the Soviet leadership again in your universe do not know .. well, the Internet is at your service - you can not only retell other people's tales, but you can also look for eyewitness accounts and commission reports ...
                1. GSPDJGneva
                  GSPDJGneva 17 November 2017 22: 15 New
                  0
                  Quote: mat-vey
                  And how Korobov with his "lineup" before the competition allowed?

                  But Korobov RESPECT! A true pioneer!
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 17 November 2017 22: 18 New
                    +2
                    So what about the “certain layout” there ... and this is about the infantry - are the AKs nothing to the gunners?
                  2. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 18 November 2017 06: 26 New
                    +1
                    TU - GSPDJGneva
                    Why did you delete your troll passages? Let people get acquainted with the standard set of fiction and fairy tales ..
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 17 November 2017 17: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: GspdjGneva
        Idea stole from shushpanchika

        Do not tell me - what kind of idea is this?
      3. NG inform
        NG inform 18 November 2017 02: 30 New
        0
        He is a constructor, this is a direct function of designers. He did exactly what the rest of the designers did throughout history. His task was to create the optimal machine, and not to invent something new, which he did.
  4. Alex_59
    Alex_59 16 November 2017 07: 03 New
    28
    How few materials there are at that level and quality ...
    Respect for the author from manufacturers of other industries - "hairy" signalmen in my face!
    The war has just ended, requiring unprecedented physical and moral efforts for the development of new types of weapons and a multiple increase in production. And here is the new challenge. In the conditions of wild time pressure, when it is necessary to produce weapons, fulfilling the supply plan, when its design is constantly changing, when on some issues there is not only its own, but also world experience, the only right decision is made - a temporary transition to a milled receiver case.
    - It’s worth adding that all this happens after 25 years after the complete collapse of statehood, only 15 years after the start of industrialization. 15 years !!! And the question is already being raised whether Soviet technology is equal in quality to German. For 99,99% of the countries of the world in such conditions, the question of equality with Germany would not be on the agenda, even in the long term.
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 16 November 2017 07: 05 New
    19
    An excellent, objective, patriotic (seriously) series of articles on an inexhaustible topic! But can opponents publish the same cycle in favor of their vision of history, I doubt it very much !? At most, as you can see, they are enough for petty nitpicking in their comments. " Kalashnikov "N8,9,2009g. Test of AK, N3,2010g. Comparison of AK and AB (Bulkina). As a caster I fully confirm the passage on the development of new cast products, this also applies to other types of products. Thanks to the Author!
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 17 November 2017 18: 01 New
      +4
      Quote: andrewkor
      And can opponents publish the same cycle in favor of their vision of history

      To do this, you need to operate with knowledge, not speculation and fiction ...
  6. Locksmith
    Locksmith 16 November 2017 07: 37 New
    +5
    Well written, neither add-nor take away. drinks
  7. hohol95
    hohol95 16 November 2017 08: 28 New
    10
    Why does EVERYONE accuse Kalashnikov of copying the Sturmgever, and NOBODY touches Czech designers for CZ SA Vz.58 ???

    But he oh, how similar to the Sturmgevere
    1. CRP
      CRP 16 November 2017 10: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: hohol95
      Why does EVERYONE accuse Kalashnikov of copying the Sturmgever, and NOBODY touches Czech designers for CZ SA Vz.58 ???

      But he oh, how similar to the Sturmgevere


      Judging by the shutter, this is generally a fork from SCS.
      1. figwam
        figwam 16 November 2017 14: 37 New
        +4
        The disassembly of the MP-44 is suspiciously similar to the disassembly of the M-16.
    2. Timeout
      Timeout 17 November 2017 03: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: hohol95
      But he oh, how similar to the Sturmgevere

      Nope, locking is different. More like Walter P38))).
    3. Kibb
      Kibb 17 November 2017 10: 22 New
      +1
      It just looks like an AK in appearance, and at the same time not an AK at all - extra evidence that the entire StG / AK bazaar is "nothing."
    4. komvap
      komvap 17 November 2017 13: 25 New
      +2
      outwardly a bit like, especially the butt, but inside-spilled SKS
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 17 November 2017 18: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: komvap
        and inside-spilled SKS

        Are you sure?
  8. fider
    fider 16 November 2017 08: 28 New
    +3
    Why is there no patent for AK? If he does not argue on the merits of the matter, then all that is written above is demagogy
    1. avt
      avt 16 November 2017 09: 50 New
      +9
      Quote: fider
      Why is there no patent for AK? If he does not argue on the merits of the matter, then all that is written above is demagogy

      Azochenway! Because if a person walks, it’s serious and for a long time and yes, everything for him in life is sided and incomprehensible - demagogy. Even ALL experts from the former USSR VNIIGPE will not help! Only specialized specialists with qualifications of the Serbsky Institute.
      Quote: Locksmith
      Well written, neither add-nor take away.

      Yes - the final chord sounded beautiful! good
      1. fider
        fider 16 November 2017 12: 27 New
        +2
        AVT, which one of us goes - you have to look. So how many patents do you have? I have 7.Although long-standing, but there is. There is no patent - there is no novelty. That's it.
        1. brn521
          brn521 16 November 2017 14: 03 New
          +5
          Quote: fider
          How many patents do you have? I have 7

          Generally not an indicator. Because there is a category of comrades who create or buy shitty patents, after which they cling to everyone in a row and threaten the court, counting on the fact that the court will not actually get to it. Just Kaspersky recently boasted of achievements in the field of his struggle against such ransomware.
        2. avt
          avt 16 November 2017 16: 31 New
          +2
          Quote: fider
          That says it all.

          What, by whom, by whom? Oh wow? In at least countries they registered, then? Well, your patents and for how long? bully
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 16 November 2017 10: 04 New
      +2
      Weapon patents are valid for 20 years.
      Next - copy as you can ...
    3. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 16 November 2017 11: 10 New
      +2
      Even if there was a patent ... how many years have passed ... although there are no copies of a single equivalent machine (alternative design) in terms of price and quality.
  9. urman
    urman 16 November 2017 09: 07 New
    +1
    And who will answer me the question.
    During the service when cleaning machines, we tried to change parts of machines,
    everything suited, but I didn’t have to shoot with the changed parts.
    and the officers didn’t recommend it.
    What really works, complete interchangeability?
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 16 November 2017 09: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: urman
      During the service when cleaning machines, we tried to change parts of machines,
      everything suited, but I didn’t have to shoot with the changed parts.
      and the officers didn’t recommend it.
      What really works, complete interchangeability?

      Yes. But, as they were doing during the service, they earn extra money individually, then with replaced units, increased wear during the running-in of the mechanism is possible. This applies to all mass products, bearings, bushings, piston rings, and not just automatic machines.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 16 November 2017 09: 58 New
      +5
      Does not work! There is no interchangeability of parts on AKM.
      This was checked in Israel by gunsmiths on beautiful new AKMs.
      Soviet-made captured in massive numbers in Lebanon at 1982.
      Automatic machines are new from unpacked boxes.
      Mix parts from 10 machines and assembled again.
      Normally shot about 5 out of 10.
      The same thing was done with the “despicable” M-16s - they shot all 10.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 16 November 2017 10: 28 New
        13
        Quote: voyaka uh
        This was checked in Israel by gunsmiths on beautiful new AKMs.
        Soviet-made captured in massive numbers in Lebanon at 1982.

        Do you think that the same AKMs that were used by the Soviet army were supplied to Lebanon? )))
        Something I doubt. By analogy with other weapons. Junk with reduced tolerances, an increased degree of rejection, and deliberately trimmed modifications went for export. The fact that you can’t set yourself. And to write off marriage is also too luxurious. This is all for the Arabs. Arabs are glad. Russians are happy. Jews, as I see it, are also happy. )))
      2. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 16 November 2017 11: 13 New
        +1
        I think that if now (with re-equipment with new equipment) they have come to this, then it’s already good. And the Germans did the Messerschmites109 at different factories and everything worked out fine for them.
      3. Colonel
        Colonel 16 November 2017 12: 38 New
        +8
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Does not work! There is no interchangeability of parts on AKM

        Lies, just lies.
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 5 December 2017 22: 06 New
          +5
          I confirm, a comrade from Israel is lying and sucking up on mattresses. We in the Army changed for the sake of fun and experience, AK-74S, we worked.
      4. DimerVladimer
        DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 15: 59 New
        +9
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Mix parts from 10 machines and assembled again.
        Normally shot about 5 out of 10.


        And what can be mixed in the AKM so that he does not shoot?
        Shutter with a shutter frame - high-precision parts, at least mix.
        Gas pipe - deviations in geometry are not critical - if only the gas piston does not stick.
        Return spring? All have permissible stiffness.
        You didn’t rivet open the receiver to get the trigger?
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 17 November 2017 18: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: DimerVladimer
          And what can be mixed in the AKM so that he does not shoot?

          Same question ..
      5. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 16 November 2017 16: 06 New
        +3
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Automatic machines are new from unpacked boxes.
        Mix parts from 10 machines and assembled again.

        And in the end they got "Lada" .....
        laughing
      6. hohol95
        hohol95 16 November 2017 16: 22 New
        +2
        And it was precisely on these AKMs that were the hallmarks of the factories of the USSR! After all, the T-54 and T-72 tanks were all considered only Soviet, but they were also made and sold, and the Poles and Czechoslovakians !!!
        And AKM produced and sold the entire Warsaw Pact! From the USSR to the GDR.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 16 November 2017 16: 37 New
          +2
          I don’t know about the hallmarks of factories. I told the story personally
          a reservist-gunsmith who took trophies from Lebanon to warehouses.
          They did such things not on the instructions of the authorities, but simply for the sake of
          curiosity. He used the word "Calatch of Rus", referring to the country
          production, not the country of the inventor.
          Keep in mind that the overall reputation of AKM (“Kalatch”) in Israel is very
          high. He was taken as soon as possible as a personal weapon and in war
          67 years old, and in the war 73 years. Only since the end of the 80s, when the M-16 was put in order,
          and Galil disappointed, the rating of Kalash went down.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 16 November 2017 16: 53 New
            +2
            The country of production or HE thought (since AK or AKM) - DOES IT MEAN FROM THE USSR?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 16 November 2017 17: 09 New
              +1
              We were more or less (from field experience) able to distinguish Kalash. Chinese i
              held in his hands out of curiosity (they shot me from him).
              From the Soviet (I judged by the butt, I did not peer at the stigmas) I shot,
              to test the strength of the sandworms with which we strengthened our position.
              I have already said that it was not a Chinese or an eastern clone that was unambiguously sorted and mixed. You can look for which AKM supplied Arafat (Fatah) in 1981-82.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 17 November 2017 08: 10 New
                +1
                If you have such information, look! Please! hi
              2. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 5 December 2017 22: 08 New
                +5
                In, since you write comments here, then the Chinese is not that. If they were shot from the Soviet, then the VO would have lost one soldier.
          2. Mika_blin
            Mika_blin 16 November 2017 18: 23 New
            +5
            Quote: voyaka uh
            I told the story personally
            a reservist-gunsmith who took trophies from Lebanon to warehouses.

            I have already heard this story from at least three different reservists-tsakhalevtsi. All three claimed to have carried out this act personally.
            Moreover, one of them is really a gunsmith.
          3. Timeout
            Timeout 17 November 2017 03: 28 New
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            but just a curiosity.

            Dear, to unstrap AK it is necessary though to imagine how to do it correctly. Pulling and pulling out the rivets with a screwdriver warps the bolt box. Surely there were no factory pullers. And from "Galil" does not fit! There you have the delays. Normally riveted machine guns are assembled from different parts and shoot without delay.
      7. The comment was deleted.
      8. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow 16 November 2017 20: 21 New
        +2
        It was collected not in the USSR, but in the middle of nowhere beyond the hill. Hands can be seen not from that place, but there ...
      9. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 5 December 2017 22: 03 New
        +5
        For M16 standings, "licked."
    3. lysyj bob
      lysyj bob 16 November 2017 10: 15 New
      12
      Quote: urman
      And who will answer me the question.


      I will answer. Interchangeability works completely! Checked. But according to the rules of operation, when replacing critical parts, it is RECOMMENDED that the weapon be brought to normal combat. Although in practice there was no difference.
      1. urman
        urman 16 November 2017 10: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: lysyj bob
        Bringing weapons to normal combat is RECOMMENDED.

        Yeah, thanks, that is, in an emergency, you can sort out.
        Well, if not in a hurry, then for normal combat and other extra work there are gunsmiths.
        Actually what I wanted to know. Thank!
    4. bunta
      16 November 2017 10: 43 New
      19
      Quote: urman
      What really works, complete interchangeability?

      Interchangeability is the same obscure term for lawyers as "stamping" or "childhood illnesses." Achieving interchangeability in production, the primary goal is to save money on assembly. In the event of a component breakdown in operation, the same goal is pursued - to take a new part from the spare parts and replace it without unnecessary fitting. New from ZIP! And not from the neighboring gouged. And only if one part that is changed is out of order, and the mating part remains in tolerances. The cartridges themselves are interchangeable, but if the chamber is rusted or swollen ...
      In any case, verification is required, ENSURING interchangeability does not exempt from verification by calibers and allows adjustment within design tolerances.
      Interchangeability is as probabilistic as many other definitions.
      The likelihood that during a battle in a Kalashnikov assault rifle will require replacing the shutter from one assault rifle to another, this will be done quickly and without risk to life, the shooter and the weapon will work, an order of magnitude higher than that would be done for the M-16, for which replacing the shutters in general prohibited by the manufacturer.



      this is where interchangeability is guaranteed. Then the wear factor of the mating parts is working and there will never be an absolute guarantee when replacing one.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 16 November 2017 11: 16 New
        +2
        This is an indicator of the accuracy of the processing of parts and the calculation of their wear ... then it translates into the supply of spare parts and the combat readiness of a weapon model (if you take not an automatic machine, but an airplane, for example)
      2. avt
        avt 16 November 2017 11: 43 New
        +9
        Quote: bunta
        Interchangeability is the same obscure term for lawyers as "stamping" or "childhood illnesses." Achieving interchangeability in production, the primary goal is to save money on assembly. In the event of a component breakdown in operation, the same goal is pursued - to take a new part from the spare parts and replace it without unnecessary fitting. New from ZIP! And not from the neighboring gouged.

        bully This is a new series of articles in the continuation of the topic, "Kalash Schmeiser"! bully Especially when you consider the interview with Grandfather Misha, who (he heard) considered it his merit before the SA that he was able to advance the SYSTEM of small arms from a machine gun to a machine gun with interchangeable parts! Which is significant by the criterion of “cost-effectiveness” both in production and operation!
      3. Timeout
        Timeout 17 November 2017 03: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: bunta
        this is where interchangeability is guaranteed.

        Hi Andrew! The interchangeability level in AK is almost 98%. The gunsmith takes the part from the spare parts and changes, this does not require adjustment. With me on three dozen AK-74s they whispered the self-timer whispers. They just took and changed. The weapon after the replacement worked flawlessly. Replacing the shutter larva is the same.
  10. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 16 November 2017 09: 45 New
    +2
    I read all three articles of the author, but I didn’t catch the evidence base for the difference between the “assault” and AK - he examined in detail the stamping processes, milling, and the quality of workpiece manufacturing. As far as I understand this issue, supporters of the German "copy" theme indicate primarily the external similarity, similar layout and use of an intermediate cartridge.
    And to rassusolit theme that "the Germans used a screw on 5 mm, and we put on 6 .." you can endlessly ...
    1. avt
      avt 16 November 2017 09: 58 New
      +8
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      As far as I understand this issue, supporters of the German "copy" theme indicate primarily the external similarity, similar layout and use of an intermediate cartridge.
      bully
      Nart for Petrusha No. 1 invented a lathe.
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And to rassusolit theme that "the Germans used a screw on 5 mm, and we put on 6 .." you can endlessly ...

      And rassusolivat on the subject of various German machine tools, and even with CNC can endlessly .....
    2. sibiryouk
      sibiryouk 16 November 2017 12: 06 New
      12
      1- the Germans have a cartridge 7.92x33, the Russians 7.62x39
      2- the Germans have a shutter bias, the Russians have a shutter rotation
      3- the Germans have a different step and the length of the rifling in the trunk
      4- the Germans have a different trigger and a fundamentally different translator of fire modes.
      5- the Germans have a fundamentally different scheme for the incomplete disassembly of the machine, i.e. the machine is going technologically different!
      6- if compared with other samples, then the MP-44 is structurally closer: FN FAL, CETME and even G-3 in some way
      7- and more ......
      1. The leader of the Redskins
        The leader of the Redskins 16 November 2017 22: 12 New
        0
        This is the right approach to the topic. And three articles to discuss the problems of stamping small arms are a rejection.
        1. NG inform
          NG inform 18 November 2017 02: 37 New
          +2
          For engineers - about stamping more interesting, because This issue is technically much more significant than the above differences.
      2. Disorder
        Disorder 16 November 2017 22: 18 New
        +4
        Enough USM, locking method and receiver design.
        PS FN FAL is structurally closer to SVT, and CETME and the G-3 made on its basis differ from STG-44 even more than AK.
      3. komvap
        komvap 17 November 2017 13: 31 New
        +2
        closer to MP-44 structurally m16
  11. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 16 November 2017 09: 53 New
    +3
    "The peculiarity is that the worker develops a skill,
    which cannot be formalized and described in the process "////

    This is from the primitiveness of the process technology. With sufficient mechanization and automation
    no special skill of the worker is required. Take anyone from the street
    non-alcoholic and he should release quickly quality
    products.
    "The reason was simple - the girls when assembling a finger slightly pulled the tape."
    - A vivid example of the primitiveness of assembly technology.
    Normal process engineers would come up with a fixture that clamped the tape
    with the right degree of stretch. Then it would not be necessary to transport the girls from factory to factory. laughing
    1. CRP
      CRP 16 November 2017 10: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Take anyone from the street
      non-alcoholic and he should release quickly quality
      products.

      You can’t put a person from the street behind a machine, and even more so a modern one.

      Quote: voyaka uh
      Normal process engineers would come up with a device that clamped the tape with the desired degree of stretching.


      It seems to me that this is not a matter of normality, but of the incorrigible Soviet attitude to production - “it was necessary yesterday”. The Union was late somewhere all the way ... The same thing is happening in Russia now - instead of writing a single instruction, so that every boob could just carry out an order of actions, someone is brought at night or from vacation. These are not technical problems, but organizational and domestic ones. For 5 workers, there is only one truly high specialist, the rest wretchedly.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 16 November 2017 10: 22 New
        +2
        "These are not technical problems, but organizational and domestic" ////

        The task of industrial engineers, production organizers
        technical process so that the worker simply could not make a marriage.
        Then the production of products ceases to depend on miracle workers,
        which, if in a binge, the launch of the rocket into space is postponed for a week (I will exaggerate, of course). But the recent alteration of all Progress rockets due to the fact that the storekeeper has changed at the warehouse is confirmation. High mechanization and automation (plus computerization now)
        excludes the human factor in the marriage of products.
        1. andrewkor
          andrewkor 16 November 2017 10: 42 New
          +2
          Dear Vojaka, in the comments to the second part of the article, you briefly mentioned the obsolescence of both AK and M16 and, apparently, the rest of other firearms used by traditional ammunition. as it didn’t go. There were left-handed missiles, an electromagnet, a laser-maser. What do you think can replace a firearm in the future? The accumulated impulse and balance are too complicated for military weapons or not?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 November 2017 11: 53 New
            +2
            No. I didn’t go so far. I did not mean even ammunition. I mean,
            that modern small arms should have
            blanks (containers for batteries, adapters for cables) for integration with electronics. In addition to the required straps Picattini.
            Without an instant and reliable replacement of sights (far-near, night-day), the weapon can no longer be considered modern. Plus lights, rangefinders, etc.
            These bells and whistles give a fantastic advantage to trained soldiers on the battlefield. The usual “on equal terms” shootout turns into the shooting of the enemy.
            And there are no such blanks either in Russian weapons or in American ones.
            In a combat aircraft, avionics already reaches 50% of the total cost of the product. The same trend is in small arms.
            1. brn521
              brn521 16 November 2017 14: 49 New
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              modern small arms even in the production process should have blanks (containers for batteries, adapters for cables) for integration with electronics. In addition to the required straps Picattini.

              Late. We are already talking about fully automated systems. As soon as they go to the masses, ordinary shooters will go down in history and sport.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              And there are no such blanks either in Russian weapons or in American ones.

              What for? The fate of personal weapons is PDW. Play a shoot-out with a mechanism that will be the first to identify, target and destroy you? Despite the fact that our miserable 5,45, 5,56 and 7,62 will be like an elephant to him.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              In a combat aircraft, avionics already reaches 50% of the total cost of the product. The same trend is in small arms.

              About that and speech the pilot is not so much piloting himself as he is watching the work of automated systems. To sculpt an increasingly sophisticated body kit for weapons is the same as concentrating all avionics in the pilot's spacesuit. Expensive and inefficient. And still we come to the same thing - it will be required that the spacesuit begins to control the aircraft without a pilot. For example, at accelerations above 9G. So it is with weapons. If this goes on, then users of conventional weapons will turn into meat for push-buttons.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 16 November 2017 14: 57 New
                +2
                You are talking about a more distant stage that will come, but not in the coming
                20-30 years old. While leaning on body kits. Therefore, weapon designers need them
                keep in mind.
                1. brn521
                  brn521 16 November 2017 18: 31 New
                  +4
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  While leaning on body kits. Therefore, weapons designers must keep them in mind.

                  The body kit for me is a passed stage. He was young. Five years ago, I was thinking exactly on such a question. If you rummage through the magazine at Karden, you can recall. He just laid out how many different batteries, accumulators and chargers he had to take on departure. And I tried to endure the brain with this nonsense of my own composition. In short, we are talking about improvements to regular weapons. In any case, you need a single power bus. Can stick on the receiver. Because some devices are located where weight and dimensions are important, and a bus will allow them to abandon full-size batteries and even out energy consumption. For example, on a helmet or machine gun. And some technologies, like thermal imagers, consume this energy in kilowatts. If they eat less, they work worse, but they are still expensive. The bus clings to the backup power supply in the handle. Plus, there is a connector to which we hook a cable running along the sleeve to the main battery at unloading. This is especially true for the Russian Federation, as in cold weather, batteries lose their characteristics. And if you collect in one place, you can heat them cheaply and accurately, in addition to the heat that they themselves produce. Illustration - a battery element for the PSO on the wires, which the user of the SVD should have kept in his bosom. Only now much more power is required. Another plus is recharging the whole thing from one cable. And yet - you can throw all the power on one thing. For example, a radio station will significantly increase the radius of work. Or carry a compact spotlight in your pocket. Or a full-fledged thermal imager. You can even drag mini-rags on yourself. Now it’s very important when at any moment a civilian drone can fly in and drop a grenade at your collar. You can also combine the batteries of several fighters in order to equalize the charges or power something especially voracious. There will also be an additional opportunity on the subject of World War II: the battery pack died on your unloading - you ripped the battery from the nearest car, threw it in your backpack and you can use the whole body kit again normally. It will be difficult, but maintaining the advantages of the body kit is worth it. So more and more energy is required and it will be required constantly. Against this background, the devices themselves, if they have batteries, it is only as a rechargeable battery.
                  But ... If you have such a serious body kit and it consumes so much, it is easier to load this case on a trolley, and let it ride itself. Even if it doesn’t matter with her brains and has to be controlled remotely, it’s still much more efficient and safer. Carts can be put on conveyor production. But there are no people. The carriage punched through completely can be repaired. A military specialist with a broken liver or torn leg is only suitable for decommissioning. The specialist uses an assault rifle, because the flimsy humanoid is not adapted to fight. Whereas half the weighing cart is a ready-made machine for a heavy machine gun. Under a new kit of people it is necessary to train and train for a long time. A cart only firmware change.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 17 November 2017 08: 18 New
                    +4
                    But ... If you have such a serious body kit and it consumes so much, it is easier to load this case on a trolley, and let it ride itself.


                    88th issue of Jumble
                    2. The deal. A fashionably dressed guy with a player sits on a bench, and a guy with huge suitcases walks past. The boy with the player asked the passing time, what the clock answered themselves. It turns out that the clock can not only do this, but also much more - determine the weather, pulse, biorhythm ... The boy gave both the player and even his fashionable outfit to take possession of a unique thing, but what was his surprise when he found out that the batteries from these watches are in the suitcases.
                    drinks
            2. andrewkor
              andrewkor 16 November 2017 19: 30 New
              +1
              Thanks for the clarification, I myself am not a shooter, so it is important to know the opinions of practitioners and simply more informed comrades!
            3. Timeout
              Timeout 17 November 2017 03: 34 New
              +3
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Without an instant and reliable replacement of sights (far-near, night-day), the weapon can no longer be considered modern. Plus lights, rangefinders, etc.

              Yeah, especially on the Picattini bar.
              Quote: voyaka uh
              These bells and whistles give a fantastic advantage to trained soldiers on the battlefield.

              Well, yes, especially when the scope is broken, and at the same time it closes the mechanics, or it’s not at all. In a war within walking distance, this is possible in a trailer, but if you move away from supplies and the war economy ... The batteries run out on exactly the second day!
            4. Filxnumx
              Filxnumx 20 November 2017 18: 25 New
              +1
              These bells and whistles give a fantastic advantage to trained soldiers on the battlefield. The usual “on equal terms” shootout turns into the shooting of the enemy.

              So, still a skill is needed? But what about "Take from the street any
              non-alcoholic and he should in a few days "qualitatively destroy the enemy? With the full availability of automation and mechanization and all sorts of" gadgets ", naturally.
        2. alstr
          alstr 16 November 2017 12: 37 New
          +2
          So to speak. Automation and mechanization in 1949 is not science fiction.
          Just because it simply did not exist in nature. EVERYTHING was done by hand (even if on the machine).
          Accordingly, it is not possible to demand 100% quality from everyone.

          I'm talking about any person is a simple example. We had a practice on Russian Diesel at school. Our task was simple - to make a nozzle for a soldering iron - it’s nothing difficult - to grind one half of the workpiece with one diameter and the other with the other. The result - we only got it for 4-5 lessons. The machines were ancient - about 60 years old.
          Moreover, the first software-controlled machines were controlled according to a template set by an experienced craftsman (i.e., first we record all movements, and then play them back). But even in this case, marriage is possible, because a lot depends on how correctly inserted the workpiece.
          Therefore, comparing what is possible now and what happened immediately after the war is completely incorrect.
          1. Amurets
            Amurets 16 November 2017 15: 57 New
            +1
            Quote: alstr
            So to speak. Automation and mechanization in 1949 is not science fiction.
            Just because it simply did not exist in nature. EVERYTHING was done by hand (even if on the machine)

            Well, for some reason. It was just that at that time there was mechanical automation of the copy, rolling, cam type. Examples: turret gun mounts on large ships, starting from the cargo compartment and ending with loading guns. Or the manufacture of mass parts: pistons, fingers, hardware. The link is an automatic piston manufacturing plant. Article 1951 http://maxpark.com/community/129/content/3632350
            1. alstr
              alstr 16 November 2017 17: 44 New
              +2
              Yes it was. But at the same time, you need to understand that even to grind the simplest part, it is NECESSARY to set the MANUAL workpiece CORRECTLY. If this is not done, then the item will go into marriage. And these are just the simplest parts such as bolts and nuts.
              And for more complex parts, installation requirements are much higher. And it was often possible to grind them out only manually because of the technological features of both the part itself and the machines

              In general, I dug up an approximate alignment of the terms for obtaining the qualifications of turners (for other specialties, it is approximately the same)
              "Pupils, trainees - they have been studying for three months or more to complete the test work. After passing the exam, 2 or 3 categories are given (the commission decides which category to issue 2 or 3).
              Turner 3 discharges - to receive 3 discharges, a year must pass from the moment of receipt of 2 discharges. During this year, a turner of 2 categories should be able to manufacture parts of 3 categories. The procedure for increasing the discharge is the same for everyone.
              Turner 4 categories - to receive 4 categories a year must pass from the moment of receiving 3 categories. During this year, a turner of 3 categories should be able to manufacture parts of 4 categories. After that, the turner goes through training with the production of test work and passes the exam.
              Turner of the 5th category is a more serious level of training of turners. To receive the 5th category, two years must pass from the moment of receiving the 4th category. To receive the 5th category, it is necessary to carry out a 4-turner 30% of the 5-category works within two years with a turner.
              A turner of the 6th category is the maximum achievement in turning business and at least 6 years must pass from the moment of receiving the 3th category to receive the 5th category. A turner of the highest qualification also undergoes training and performs trial work corresponding to the requested category. "

              Those. to receive the 6th grade, a person must spend, on average, about 7-8 years. There may be exceptions, but overall this reflects reality.

              By the way, note that even to get 3rd grade you need to study for 3 months.
        3. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 16: 12 New
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          technical process so that the worker simply could not make a marriage.
          Then the production of products ceases to depend on miracle workers,
          which, if in a binge, the launch of the rocket into space is postponed for a week (I will exaggerate, of course). But the recent alteration of all Progress rockets due to the fact that the storekeeper has changed at the warehouse is confirmation. High mechanization and automation (plus computerization now)
          excludes the human factor in the marriage of products.


          A warrior is a demagogy!
          Something I did not meet in such industries, where people are taken from the street and put to the conveyor in 3 days.
          Something Toyota - making not the worst cars (let Toyota forgive me), working on the principles of kaizen (continuous improvement), does not seek to recruit the first people who got from the street to its plants - conducts training and internships and rewards staff for improvements in production.

          Here is a workshop in Italy working on kaizen - assembly of mechatronics.
          Who will take the collector from the street, who does not understand what tool to tighten the fasteners with at what moment and does not understand the essence of the work :)
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 November 2017 16: 21 New
            +1
            I love Toyota (although I drive a Subaru).
            But their assembly is already yesterday. Youndai collect robots.
            There are no people close.
            In the photo - the new BMW factory
            1. DimerVladimer
              DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 16: 36 New
              +7
              This is just a body welding section (nomenclature of 10-15 parts) - there are such ones in China. It can still be robotic.
              And then what?
              5000 parts to assemble into a car only by robots - today it is impossible.
              Therefore, in the best case, 30-35% of operations are automated, the rest - with the handles of workers.

              and what are they doing there? - Lay the wiring, twist the nuts, put the skin, etc.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 16 November 2017 16: 43 New
                +2
                I will not argue with you. Fully robotic assembly
                impossible, I agree. But so organize the process to shield
                correct operations from fantasies and moods of collectors - you can
                and need.
                1. DimerVladimer
                  DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 16: 55 New
                  +6
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  I will not argue with you. Fully robotic assembly
                  impossible, I agree. But so organize the process to shield
                  correct operations from fantasies and moods of collectors - you can
                  and need.


                  This is the second task of the design engineer - to simplify the process, design such a device that does not give a multivariance of the event (protection from the fool) - that is, the part can only be screwed with this tool, only with such effort and only in this position
                  1. Amurets
                    Amurets 17 November 2017 00: 26 New
                    +4
                    Quote: DimerVladimer
                    i.e. the part can only be screwed with this tool,

                    And then the repairmen swear, because there is only another tool at the factory, and God forbid, the malfunction will occur after the expiration of the warranty period. And then what? At one time, even the wheels on your favorite Japanese women could not be repaired, since there were no necessary heads. Even with Phillips screwdrivers, there are several types of slots, and what can we say about equipment manufactured by one manufacturer, but in different countries. Unfortunately, I had to deal with this.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 17 November 2017 00: 42 New
                      +6
                      As it was corny, I could not unwind the steering cover on Renault to solder the wiring due to the lack of an asterisk. Bastards. I swear to myself.
                    2. DimerVladimer
                      DimerVladimer 17 November 2017 12: 33 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Amurets
                      Quote: DimerVladimer
                      i.e. the part can only be screwed with this tool,

                      And then the repairmen swear, because there is only another tool at the factory, and God forbid, the malfunction will occur after the expiration of the warranty period. And then what? At one time, even the wheels on your favorite Japanese women could not be repaired, since there were no necessary heads. Even with Phillips screwdrivers, there are several types of slots, and what can we say about equipment manufactured by one manufacturer, but in different countries. Unfortunately, I had to deal with this.


                      You are absolutely right.
                      This was done on purpose - each manufacturer introduced its own range of fasteners, so that only its after-sales service could disassemble - this resulted in a tight pile of fastener nomenclature.

                      Our Soviet school of design, sought to get by with standard fasteners and the smallest possible nomenclature. Often, if it was not a matter of saving weight, fasteners that repeatedly overlap the safety margins were allowed to reduce the variety of grades.

                      Especially looking at Chinese crafts, I am amazed at the variety of fasteners and the randomness of the design principles - for example, protection on an ATV, of 8 fasteners, is made of 4 different types of elements (okay, at least symmetrically in pairs).
            2. DimerVladimer
              DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 16: 41 New
              +3
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But their assembly is already yesterday. Youndai collect robots.


              Hyundai - motors.
              Engines assemble robots?
            3. DimerVladimer
              DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 16: 50 New
              +5
              Quote: voyaka uh
              But their assembly is already yesterday. Youndai collect robots.




              The internal equipment and the interior of the car, while only a person can install it, is cheaper than installing the appropriate manipulator and programming - the reason?
              Why welding can be robotized - relatively rigid parts or stocks that do not give multivariance and a large number of welds - of the same type of fixture (welding points or seams). Then how to attach the dashboard assembly - it’s automatically very difficult - to attach it correctly, to get into the guides and into the mounting holes - only a person can do it - there are manipulators that allow you to move and attach the dashboard, but the person screws it on :)
        4. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 5 December 2017 22: 13 New
          +5
          Well, show me what automation and robotics were in the 40s and 50s? Describe their level, and then gloat with a mentor tone. Evr5i and at that time weapons from trash were collected in landfills.
      2. sibiryouk
        sibiryouk 16 November 2017 12: 09 New
        +5
        Alas, it’s possible to bet now and to anybody! Problem- NO PEOPLE !!!
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 17 November 2017 18: 40 New
          +4
          Quote: sibiryouk
          Alas, it’s possible to bet now and to anybody! Problem- NO PEOPLE !!!

          And what would a toad press to train? And in general, where did people go then? Or are unemployed people not?
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 16 November 2017 10: 38 New
      11
      Quote: voyaka uh
      - A vivid example of the primitiveness of assembly technology.

      You checkers, or go? What is the difference primitive technology or not, if the output is a product better in terms of performance characteristics than the enemy, and cheaper than the enemy?
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Take anyone from the street
      non-alcoholic and he should release quickly quality
      products.
      Will not work. At least for those years that are discussed in the article. There is such a thing as a "chuyka". Which grows with calluses. The fact that you write this way just betrays in you a person who is far from production. For example, over the years I have learned to determine the malfunction of some units by sound. I just ask the person who next to the unit to bring the phone to him and listen. And then I say - replace here, lubricate here and clean there. And everything works after that. A simple “no drunk” from the street can never do that. And it is valuable even in the 21 century. Although of course today, automation and robotics replace in many situations the human instinct. But in the example I have cited, try to create a hardware-software complex that, at a distance and in sound, will give unmistakable repair recommendations. You can do this, I have no doubt, the question is how much it will cost and how reliable it will work.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 16 November 2017 11: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Alex_59
        Although of course today, automation and robotics replace in many situations the human instinct.

        Replaces, but only in typical conditions, in those that are prescribed in the troubleshooting algorithms. And where there is a human factor, until you feel with your hands, but you don’t look or those who exploit, their hands are not adapted for anything. There are many examples like you too.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 16 November 2017 11: 59 New
        +1
        What is the difference primitive technology or not, if the output is a product
        better TTX than the enemy, and cheaper than the enemy "////

        The difference is huge. Highly automated and robotic weapons factories
        can be cloned quickly as needed. Because there is no dependence on trained workers.
        But in the primitives, it will all rest in the absence of the new workers of those "skills" that are "developed over the years", "transferred from experienced workers to students." In a word, all the burden of obsolete production patterns.
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 16 November 2017 12: 22 New
          +6
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The difference is huge. Highly automated and robotic weapons factories

          In 1945 year? Robotization No, here without a banter, you are the most adequate and smart representative of Israel here, but now you have obviously lost sight of something.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 November 2017 12: 28 New
            +2
            We apparently did not understand each other. Then - excuse me. drinks
            My posts are not related to WWII. I jumped to more modern years.
            (The Golden Years of the Kalashnikov assault rifle).
            During the 2nd World War everyone (except the Americans, probably) did a massive
            low-tech small arms. There was no choice.
            1. serezhasoldatow
              serezhasoldatow 16 November 2017 20: 07 New
              +3
              What about PPSh and PPS? Is this a low-tech weapon of VICTORY?
              PS This is me for stamping.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 17 November 2017 18: 43 New
                +2
                And the T-34 with its automatic body welding?
                1. beeper
                  beeper 18 November 2017 11: 48 New
                  +1
                  And also rotary conveyor lines of Koshkin? yes
        2. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 16: 25 New
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The difference is huge. Highly automated and robotic weapons factories
          can be cloned quickly as needed. Because there is no dependence on trained workers.
          But in the primitives, it will all rest in the absence of the new workers of those "skills" that are "developed over the years", "transferred from experienced workers to students." In a word, all the burden of obsolete production patterns.


          It feels like you're far from production.
          I have been to dozens of factories in Europe and China.
          There are no factories where the qualifications of workers would not matter.
          The more complicated the production - the higher the qualifications of the workers - this is a regularity.
          To some extent, the issue of interchangeability of parts is a matter of production robotics, the use of multi-axis machining cents that perform parts from one installation, but only a highly skilled worker who knows how to work with various complex assembly tools and follows an assembly card can assemble it into a working unit. maybe for hundreds of operations.

          In the photo there are 6 machining centers (instead of 106 narrowly specialized machines) that produce hydraulic equipment (1 operator periodically comes to load billets) China 2014.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 16 November 2017 16: 54 New
            +3
            Thanks for the posts and photos. drinks I may have exaggerated the possibilities
            robotic assembly.
            1. DimerVladimer
              DimerVladimer 16 November 2017 17: 01 New
              +4
              Quote: voyaka uh
              Thanks for the posts and photos. I may have exaggerated the possibilities
              robotic assembly.


              The trend is correct.
              But before robotization, at least an industry average of 50% is still very far away.

              In Shanghai - one of the most advanced clusters for the production of robotic manipulators. China is who seriously invests in production robotics, but it would seem ...
      3. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow 16 November 2017 20: 11 New
        +3
        A huge plus for you! There is nothing better to say. Constantly at work I come across this. I always respect those who ... further your comment.
    3. faiver
      faiver 16 November 2017 10: 52 New
      +5
      the history of mastering the production of Maxim machine guns
      - process engineers? in those days there was no Israel hi
    4. serezhasoldatow
      serezhasoldatow 16 November 2017 20: 05 New
      +2
      You are a very GREAT technologist! You have never worked in production, therefore, and reason. The same operation could be introduced into the manufacturing process and all. And about primitiveness ... Why did Galil blow off Kalash?
  12. CRP
    CRP 16 November 2017 11: 07 New
    0
    In the period of preparation for military tests conducted at the training ground, it was found that when firing from a machine gun with an emphasis on the store, the accuracy of firing is almost 2,5 times better than with hand. At the same time, the strength of the store and the reliability of the product do not deteriorate.


    But what about clogging the store with sand or mud?

    And by the way, dear author, please comment on the rumor about the trunks of the 105th and 104th AK - they say the resource is not great. What is the reason for this?
    1. bunta
      16 November 2017 12: 05 New
      +7
      I can only state that the quality of civilian weapons of the KK wishes to leave much better, since I have information on its refusals. I can predict that the quality of civilian weapons produced by the spacecraft will be even worse. I can’t say anything specifically about military products. I do not have access. I can agree with rumors about a decline in the quality of military products. At the expense of reducing the resource of trunks - I doubt it. It is to what extent it is necessary to start production so that the technology worked out for decades is ruined!
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 17 November 2017 03: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: bunta
        the quality of civilian weapons KK wants to leave much better

        It fell and very much ... The quality of the army is still holding, at least the last batch of AK-103 for Venezuela in 2015 was excellent.
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 17 November 2017 18: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: bunta
        It is to what extent it is necessary to start production so that the technology worked out for decades is ruined!

        Do you doubt the abilities of effective managers? Well, they will send all the storekeepers to the hospital for the last resort ...
    2. Severok
      Severok 16 November 2017 12: 47 New
      +4
      There is some information: the lack of chrome plating of the bore, the use of cheaper steels in production, the simplification of the process to "save" money. All this will be subsequently paid for in blood.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  13. Curious
    Curious 16 November 2017 14: 23 New
    +2
    Finally, the author broke through the open door and once again repeated many times repeated and proved many times proved.
    1. Kibb
      Kibb 17 November 2017 11: 56 New
      +2
      At the level of debaters in the subject, this is not surprising. Three parts and the usual nonsense of "commentators."
      The author emphasized technology. I thought to clarify for myself some questions on this topic., but stumbled upon the usual waving of flags and cries of "ur-aaaeeee-a-why-so-they killed me." Including from the author - asked a leading question, and not to him, but he suffered. I think that with such a level of discussion, the topic will not be exhaustible for another hundred years.
  14. Brushing
    Brushing 16 November 2017 14: 35 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh

    In a combat aircraft, avionics already reaches 50% of the total cost of the product. The same trend is in small arms.


    Why aren't Israelis comfortable with American avionics? )))
  15. uwzek
    uwzek 16 November 2017 16: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: fider
    AVT, which one of us goes - you have to look. So how many patents do you have? I have 7.Although long-standing, but there is. There is no patent - there is no novelty. That's it.

    "Potomushta" in the USSR issued copyright certificates. The state was a monopolist, all production on its territory belonged to it (as well as all copyrights to inventions on its territory in state structures were made). The copyright holder of all copyrights was the state, he had no one to fight with copyright infringement on his own territory.
    A patent is an international document. You have to pay denyushka for it. And in the case of military patents, also disclose state secrets. It is clear that no one even patented military equipment during the Soviet era ...
  16. dDYHA
    dDYHA 16 November 2017 17: 06 New
    +4
    At the end of my service, machine guns were changed in our battalion. The Ak-74 on the Ak-74 were just new with plastic butts and fore-end. So I did not unscrew the muzzle brake compensator on my own. How did not go hungry. After the fifth shooting, not being able to clean his “automatic” normally. Crammed into a distant pyramid and forgot about it. And he took another. The benefit in the company of weapons was more than personnel.
  17. uwzek
    uwzek 16 November 2017 17: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "The peculiarity is that the worker develops a skill,

    It's not a matter of skill. Most world languages ​​are not able to accurately describe the process. Various pictograms and videos would help a lot, but you yourself understand that in those years iterative film technologies didn’t seem to exist, and there were few artists among the technologists, and the printing industry that was unlikely to be able to reproduce their creations (especially at the level of a closed plant . Therefore, it is not surprising that they had to carry artists who had to show with their finger where the “north-west” is.
    The problem of linguistic imperfection in describing production processes even in Russian is extremely serious (especially since they try not to notice it), in the native languages ​​of the overwhelming percentage of the world's population it is impossible to describe the technological process correctly. Especially if you start translating from Russian into native (this is generally tin)! Hieroglyphic Chinese with Korean-Japanese were somewhat successful. Those immediately came to the pictograms and kinochki (but then technologies already existed).
    I take your posts on the site well. But when you say that a product that is technically difficult is able to immediately make an unprepared person, you see a person who is extremely distant from production. I mean, you are unlikely to do anything with your own hands in production (or production is an incinerator for you). No insults. Simply, if you’ll be scrolled many times by a virtuoso “magira balls” video course on a violin, will you be able to play in a couple of weeks? Professionals are everywhere, not just in medicine and among lawyers ...
    1. serezhasoldatow
      serezhasoldatow 16 November 2017 19: 45 New
      +3
      I read your lengthy idiotic absurdity. You surely never wrote or tested processes. In Russian (for our use) everything can be described before ...
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 17 November 2017 00: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: serezhasoldatow
        In Russian (for our use) everything can be described before ...

        Using a dictionary of folk vocabulary ...
  18. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 16 November 2017 19: 38 New
    +4
    The article is great. I have not read this for a long time. A huge plus for the author. The truth is now ... Well, you understand me.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 17 November 2017 01: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: serezhasoldatow
      True, there are now

      Yes, few were found. Riot everywhere describes everything very competently.
  19. gladcu2
    gladcu2 16 November 2017 20: 54 New
    +3
    Thanks to the author.

    Regarding Soviet quality.

    In 1938-40, the equipment of the infantrymen in quality superior to the equipment of soldiers of the Wehrmacht entered the army of the Red Army. All aspects of the minimum need were included, including the availability of special bags for small items and a non-washable shaving bag.
    The equipment was extremely high quality and thought out, it entered the troops in full.

    If someone wants to see this personally, YouTube will help.

    In the USSR, everything army is synonymous with quality.
  20. then
    then 17 November 2017 07: 29 New
    +1
    To paraphrase an English proverb: "The devil is in technology."
    It also happened that the customer set the machining tolerances for forging the part. Two years were tormented until the customer agreed to mill these base surfaces. Or electricians painted a 10x30 mm copper busbar with a flexible rib on an inner radius of 3 mm.
  21. komvap
    komvap 17 November 2017 13: 45 New
    +3
    carefully study the device m1 garand, and you will understand that the shutter frame with the shutter from ak is from here, the appearance and layout are similar to the StG44, and all this together with mass production technology and a significant improvement in workmanship and materials, this is ak.
    and from "Schmeiser" m16 is copied, one to one
    1. Kibb
      Kibb 17 November 2017 14: 31 New
      0
      Quote: komvap
      and from "Schmeiser" m16 is copied, one to one

      In exactly the same degree, ka and AK are “copied” from the sth, i.e., to no
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 17 November 2017 22: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: komvap
      carefully study the device m1 garand, and you will understand that the shutter frame with the shutter at a
  22. komvap
    komvap 17 November 2017 14: 03 New
    +3
    "The method of" scientific poking "was and remains an unsurpassed way of knowing the world around us."
    about scientific poke. at one of the test stages, the ak began to give delays during prolonged firing, all sizes were checked, all the drawings all corresponded, but the delays continued and the test results were no longer in favor of the ak. Kalashnikov was close to defeat. but suddenly, the next day, everything went away, and the machine began to work flawlessly. miracle? not at all, one of the engineers from the Kalashnikov brigade (unfortunately forgot his last name), on his own initiative, overnight processed the shutter parts and the trigger with sandpaper, which received an additional degree of freedom in pairing, which led to increased reliability during prolonged shooting. not a legend, Kalashnikov wrote about this in his book.
    so that calculations are not the most important thing, scientific tyk always takes place in the development of new models of equipment
    1. bunta
      17 November 2017 15: 48 New
      +5
      Quote: komvap
      at one stage of the test

      Quote: komvap
      The test results were no longer in favor of ac. Kalashnikov was close to defeat

      Quote: komvap
      one of the engineers from the Kalashnikov brigade (unfortunately, forgot his last name), on his own initiative, overnight processed the shutter parts and the trigger with sandpaper, which received an additional degree of freedom in pairing, which led to increased reliability during prolonged shooting. This is not a legend, Kalashnikov wrote about this in his book.

      Next time, read carefully so as not to get into a stupid position:

      When mastering the technology of serial production of a product many suggestions were made that improved the design of the machine. Their authors were often the workers of the experimental workshop, the true masters of their craft. At one of the stages of fine-tuning the AK-47, some of them experienced a delay during the test in the factory dash: the mobile system did not completely depart. They began to look for a reason. Everything seemed to be in order. What is the matter?
      Following an already established habit, I came to the workshop to think everything over at the workbench, which I liked to work for. He clamped the detail in a vice, habitually purred the beginning of the verse: “Love, brothers, love, love, brothers, live ...” Although, frankly, the mood in those minutes didn’t correspond to the tonality of the song: out of the next batch of machines same delay. So, the reason lay somewhere in the design.
      “Mikhail Timofeevich, I have a conversation for you,” he suddenly heard behind me. voice of P. N. Bukharin, mechanic.
      - Did you come up with something, Pavel Nikolaevich? “I knew, for nothing, for a good conversation, Bukharin would not leave his workbench.”
      The old worker, who arrived at the plant at the beginning of the 20's, he valued not only every minute, but also second, was scrupulous in processing every detail. At one time he had the opportunity to work side by side with V. A. Degtyarev, F. V. Tokarev, S. G. Simonov, G. S. Shpagin. Our outstanding weapons designers appreciated Pavel Nikolayevich’s skill and always listened to the advice of a locksmith who knew how to process metal in such a way that it was nice to watch.
      No, it’s not without reason that Bukharin came up to me.
      - An interesting thing is obtained, I tell you, Mikhail Timofeevich. I seem to have found a quack. - Bukharin with his strong sinewy hands took from the workbench several parts of the disassembled mobile system. - Take a good look at the trigger and whisper. - Pavel Nikolaevich brought these details closer to my face. - Everything seems to be normal here ...
      “So,” I nodded in the affirmative.
      - So, but not so. I went to the shooting range, looked at the work of machines that have a delay. Then the mobile system was dismantled, and it dawned on me that the whole reason - in strong friction that occurs during firing between the trigger and the radius of the whisper of automatic fire. It slows down the course of the mobile system.
      - This is the trick! - I marveled, after listening to Pavel Nikolaevich.
      - Indeed, the trick. It’s only better to do without him, ”Bukharin said cheerfully. - I already conducted an experiment on one of the machines.
      - What is its meaning?
      - All ingenious is very simple. He removed the radius and made a bevel at the whisper-la at an angle. The testers tried the machine for survivability - not a single delay was the fault of the mobile system, - Pavel Nikolayevich laughed quite.
    2. NG inform
      NG inform 18 November 2017 02: 45 New
      +1
      We call it: Monte Carlo method.
  23. igorra
    igorra 18 November 2017 15: 55 New
    0
    Thank you for the memory of Mikhail Timofeevich. Will I wait until the faces of all sorts of sculptures of the Salavat begin to beat?
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. valerei
    valerei 21 November 2017 23: 24 New
    +4
    Great article. Almost 100% of people have absolutely no idea about engineering and design work, but we also need to come up with technologies !! Everything around us was invented and created by engineers, and then workers. If the engineering corps is in the pen, then nothing good shines for this state. If out of a dozen graduates of a technical university get at least one ENGINEER, then this university has done its job. If 3–4 young people are standing behind each experienced engineer in this production facility, then this production will live and develop. Where do young graduates go to work now? I do not know.
  26. wolga.sergej
    wolga.sergej 8 December 2017 21: 43 New
    0
    In August 1945, 50 copies of the StG 44 were assembled from the parts available in the assembly shops and, together with 10785 sheets of technical documentation, were handed over to the Red Army to establish production in the USSR. In October 1945, Hugo Schmeisser was involved in the so-called "technical commission" of the Red Army. The commission's task was to collect information on the state of development of the latest German weapons in order to use these developments in the production of Soviet weapons.
  27. bunta
    9 March 2018 22: 32 New
    0
    6 March 2018 year on the 101 year of life, Alexander Malimon died. The author of the book to which I refer and will still refer. Today was goodbye to him. The last participant and witness to the creation of the Kalashnikov assault rifle passed away. Eternal memory and Glory!