On the "special forces" EW without fairy tales

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Recently, several articles have immediately attracted our attention and forced to speak out about. Terminology is a very precise thing, it is worth observing it, but we will not really go far.



Special Forces ... "Oh, how much in this word ..." Indeed, a lot of deserved and deeds that can really be proud of. And, apparently, envy is also present. Nothing else can explain some attempts to call "special forces" everything that comes handy.

It is clear that for a real commando it is a shame to pull such an owl on a globe. And some readers were right who said that, if things went on like this, the special forces would be among the cooks, the builders, the financiers and other front-line workers. Although with the cooks, perhaps, they went too. They also have hard times at times. But nonetheless.

In general, let's leave on the conscience of those who composed the fairy tale about the appearance of "special forces" in the EW troops in the form of an anti-UAV unit. There is absolutely nothing so specialized, everything is the same as that of colleagues, but using drones.

These are, of course, specialists of a special profile, but they have no relation to special forces. But no less deserved fighters of the invisible (in the literal sense of the word) front.

But there are nuances.

Modern EW troops are the successors of the work begun as far back as the 30s of the last century. Then, the radio intelligence units were taken out of communications units and transferred to the Red Army Headquarters Reconquest. There was a radio intelligence department organized. The department commanded individual divisions of special purpose (ORD OSNAZ), which during the Great Patriotic War became the main organizational unit.

Today, conventional army electronic warfare systems are quite capable of fulfilling the functions of the OSNAZ units. Radio interception, analysis of the source of radio emission, reference to the map, suppression or, alternatively, accurate guidance of artillery or aviation.

The highlight is that not all complexes are capable of such a range of work as, for example, “Murmansk”. Some need to get close to the enemy at a much smaller distance.

The strategy and tactics of modern war unambiguously imply opposition to the communications and electronic warfare of the enemy. And, if with communication everything can be solved rather prosaically, with the help of the good old direction finding and artillery attack, then in order to “cut down” the EW complexes, the work will be harder.

Detecting the complex when it is working "at the reception" is problematic. Like any receiver. When the transmitter starts to work easier, but there are problems of a completely different nature. For example, with the transfer of information in the suppression of the frequency range of military communications. And if the stations in the Malakhit or Diabazol systems are working in a complex, the aviation range is also covered.

And here it can be very useful precisely well-prepared groups that can quickly move into the approximate area of ​​work of EW systems in order to neutralize them.

Both in our army and in the potential armies there are groups capable of reaching the area by bearing and working on stations covering up a serious object or terrorizing the front line of troops. It is in the order of things.

And in this aspect, EW complexes are becoming one of the primary goals for the enemy EEs. I think many will agree with me that not every object today can be put out of action with the help of explosives brought by the saboteurs.

Here, of course, a lot of nuances, but I am talking about the fact that, based on all the above, the question arises: is it better to properly protect EW complexes or to pay more attention to calculation skills in terms of repelling all sorts of threats?

A partial response was received last year when we talked about the development of related specialties by rocket engineers. Moreover, quite uncharacteristic, such as setting mines and shooting a grenade launcher.

In a similar way (which was greatly pleased), they also act in the EW brigade of the Western Military District, where we occasionally gain access to equipment and talk about it.

As early as last year, they started additional training for the fighters. Counteraction to terrorist groups and enemy DRG.

In general, one should not think that the people of the Rab - are all people of intellectual work, bespectacled at the computers. Yes, the computerization of modern technology causes respect, but we also did not observe the weaklings in the calculations.

So eat meat - muscles will grow.

The situation in which the muscles began to grow, was trivial. The manufacturer delayed the shipment of new cars. And so that the personnel did not get tired of waiting, the deputy commander for work with the personnel, in the past - the colonel of the Airborne Forces, showed personal initiative and decided to share his very extensive experience in dealing with various "ours."

And shared. So much so that this company is no longer called “counter-terrorists”.

They told the case, once in the press service of the ZVO, they mistakenly sent a telegram to the wrong team. The bottom line was that the film crews would come and take pictures of how the fighters repel the attack of the “enemy” on the march, liquidate the “terrorists” groups, search for ambushes and stuff like that. What was the specifics of the correct team.

In the EW brigade, a similar program caused an unhealthy discussion. When the colonel got acquainted with its content, he noticed that everything will be fine, there is still a whole week, we will show everything. Then, of course, all settled.

But the actions on the exercises and maneuvers in 2016-17 years have caused an extremely high rating among the auditors. And the idea is not something that got accustomed, but received further development. Now teach everyone.

We watched the process going. Of course, training. Of course, the fighters before the hardened wolff of real special forces oh, how far, but who knows how everything can be in real actions?



Of course, in real combat conditions, EW complexes must protect and cover. But everyone understands that real databases are often a mess sometimes. And anything can happen.

As if the almost private initiative of Colonel Gudymenko makes one seriously think about the role of the deputy commander for work with the personnel. Many of us, probably, can “kindly” remember the commanders of the Soviet army, who, at best, simply did not interfere.

Today, the deputy of the radar really has a new hypostasis. Teach. Not only patriotism, the ability to love the Motherland and everything else, but also those skills that can be useful to a fighter in the future.

Army intelligence, airborne, SPN GRU few in comparison with the others. Nevertheless, the officers completing their service could do a lot of useful things by analogy with the EW brigade mentioned in the “non-combat” units. EW, communications, railway workers and so on. And transferring your experience, bring the personnel of the units to a new level. Kontraktnikov, of course.

In general, the initiative is useful. Of course, the “special forces” in the EW will not work, but appropriate training can give not only confidence in one’s own capabilities, but also increase the chances of survival of the calculation from any abnormal situation.
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  1. +7
    14 November 2017 08: 20
    It’s interesting, why send certain “groups” along the bearing instead of using special clever ammunition? And you can do a dozen or so stupid and not special. 8))
    The fact is that any rear unit is obliged to protect its position or area of ​​concentration, and in case of an attack by the enemy, including in the form of DRG- to carry out their defense. Not only electronic warfare, this applies to a field bakery or bathhouse at least.
    1. GIN
      +2
      14 November 2017 09: 02
      He served in the mobile unit of OSNAZ, the ammunition will not be available don’t worry, but the arrived group will perform the task by the way amphibious - the assault strip did not pass by hearsay
      1. +3
        14 November 2017 09: 28
        Quote: GIN
        ammunition will not get do not worry

        8)))
        At you just do not understand the ammunition. Everything that radiates can be detected and destroyed.
        Quote: GIN
        landing assault strip did not pass by hearsay

        Does this exist? I know the assault, "didn’t pass by hearsay" 8))) I know the landing party, I saw but didn’t pass, we had our own self-propelled guns, artillery.
        But I hear about the "air assault" for the first time
        1. +1
          14 November 2017 22: 07
          A group will come dressed in our well-worn uniform with our documents. Nobody can distinguish it from ours and blow up everything that is necessary and inappropriately. So that all this struggle with the DRG is half a show.
    2. +2
      14 November 2017 10: 32
      Quote: Spade
      It’s interesting, why send certain “groups” along the bearing instead of using special clever ammunition?

      Special forces are usually smarter. When they get to the place, they will be able to understand the situation: is it really electronic warfare, to whom it actually belongs and what it does. If it really turns out to be the electronic warfare of the alleged enemy, then along with the trophies they will be dragged - military special forces and special forces that live mostly on self-sufficiency. Clever munitions cannot cope with such a range of tasks. Especially with self-sufficiency.
      Quote: Spade
      But I hear about the "air assault" for the first time

      Judging by the name, this is a strip that has to be passed already during the landing itself.
      1. +6
        14 November 2017 10: 46
        Quote: brn521
        Getting to the place

        Time, dear, time !!!
        Any delay in this case is fraught with a loss of pace. And therefore, it is even economically viable to simply cover the entire area of ​​the “triangle of errors” with the fire of long-range MLRS. Because during the time that valiant saboteurs will spend on "getting to the place" the enemy will have time to inflict damage by orders of magnitude greater.

        Quote: brn521
        Clever "ammunition cannot cope with such a range of tasks.

        The Americans are already testing guided ammunition with the guidance of the "ZhPS-jammers" - i.e. jammers. Nothing too complicated considering the proven technology of radar destruction
        1. 0
          14 November 2017 11: 59
          And if there is no long-range RZSO?
          Or is this situation not considered in principle?
          Suppose the enemy on a march covered a column with a fire division ...
          1. +4
            14 November 2017 12: 56
            Quote: Vlad.by
            And if there is no long-range RZSO?

            ... that is, neighbors. No, and they have aviation and rocket launchers.
            And that will turn out to be an enchanting situation. The enemy jamming our radars, our valiant saboteurs sneak into the area of ​​probable REP means to heroically die in attempts to destroy them .... Meanwhile, someone is already conducting counter-battery and knocking out our artillery, and corporal Pupkin, who climbed out of the trench along in need, suddenly discovers at the exit from the forest the tanks and infantry fighting vehicles of the enemy deployed in battle formation. Oil painting ...
        2. 0
          14 November 2017 13: 13
          Quote: Spade
          Any delay in this case is fraught with a loss of pace.

          This is at first. And then there will be an inevitable mess if the conflicting parties are comparable in level. The only reliable way to overcome the mess is a human resource. A group of trained fighters at the headquarters, led by an intelligent commander. EW installations are now effective and are used massively. The trouble can do more than any firing point. Therefore, it is logical to train saboteurs to combat electronic warfare. Of course, special equipment, such as guided ammunition, they will not replace. But they will complement it by making the counteraction system more flexible and reliable.
          1. +2
            14 November 2017 13: 35
            Although the article is still not about special forces, but about raising the level of training of personnel.
            Quite a normal topic when it comes to contract soldiers.
        3. 0
          14 November 2017 22: 10
          What a hero you are! Everyone would have fought like that, we would have been in Kiev. But they say you are a mess and the staff officers are running around looking for a connection. I saw it myself. There is no connection, where anyone has a poor idea.
      2. +9
        14 November 2017 10: 48
        Yeah, only in case of failure we have a dozen of the 200s, and not linear infantry, but specialists, who are not so many in the army. Anyway, it's a bad habit to use people where artillery / missiles can handle it. Why the heck are we "Iskander" and "Coalition", when in the end their combat tasks will be solved by Vanka with a gun. And according to the article - yes, any rear services should be able to use standard weapons and repel enemy attacks, but they should still focus on the main specialty - it’s better not to know how to shoot from a machine gun, but to know how to shoot a gun from an gun, than a dropout, really not able to either this or that.
    3. +3
      14 November 2017 13: 59
      Quote: Spade
      It’s interesting, why send certain “groups” along the bearing instead of using special clever ammunition? And you can do a dozen or so stupid and not special. 8))

      ==========
      To answer this question, you need to "understand" that this is NOT ALWAYS possible! RTR systems can "detect" the work of EMR emitting means of the enemy .... BUT! Far from always, the "bearing" on the EMP of an adversary’s object is real !!! There are also “phantoms” (for example, in a mountainous (or hilly) terrain, “phantoms” are possible — the signal reflected from “terrain folds” can “distort” the bearing, and, therefore, determine the “location” of the “object” is difficult !. Yes, there are Of course, both “satellites” and “drones,” etc. .... BUT! In the conditions of active operation of electronic warfare and difficult weather conditions (and not only!), all this may turn out to be worthless! And here it is - better experienced "human eye" - NOTHING !!!!
      It is far not the only option why you might need it !!!
      1. 0
        11 January 2018 09: 38
        Not "counter", but "pro". In the old days, "at work", we were faced with these "phantoms" constantly and live specialists on the spot are needed. The simplest example: how to suppress the operation of radio receivers? That's right - you need to create a signal at the input that exceeds the dynamic range! And for this, include on your territory a powerful transmitter with a directional antenna? Having read this, the specialists laughed amicably. Not experts - you can apply the Vvedensky formula and estimate the power of the interference transmitter - the numbers will amaze you unpleasantly. It will be possible to send missiles with conventional thermal guidance to such a transmitter - they will hit for sure! So, the mockers of the “REB special forces” - in real life they send a group (yes not one, plus, false) of specialists of very different planes to the rear and they bring with them many different interesting things and establish this different interesting in the immediate vicinity of the equipment the enemy to create the necessary power at the entrance of his receivers. And you need to enable these "devices" at a certain (right) time - they are on batteries, etc. etc. And around the enemy’s object, his specialists rummage around, whose task is to prevent our specialists from reaching the object, and such a “carousel” sometimes twists ... It’s scary to recall.
        And these living guys, among other things, quietly change the column at the railway crossing and begin to “count” the passing trains, pinpointing, for example, platforms with tanks, and the “column” transmits the information with a microscopically weak signal to the nearest forest, where receive and relay to the Center.
        And yet, God forbid, who shoots and begins "running with obstacles and dogs." And everyone in the RDG knows that none of the "radio operators" should be taken prisoner ...
        "In a war, signalmen and translators are to blame for all troubles ..." (c)
  2. +8
    14 November 2017 08: 34
    It is good that the new electronic warfare equipment can be controlled even remotely, in this situation the personnel are removed from the attack and can take on part of the security functions.
    1. +3
      14 November 2017 09: 33
      Quote: ul_vitalii
      and can take on part of the security functions.

      Well, at another grandmother said in two ...
      I remember on the tactics at the school we were told that "according to the experience of the first Chechen personnel, there is not enough for the full protection and defense of the OP". We missed it, and then we felt it on our own skin. For towed artillery, this is not particularly critical, but self-propelled can not do without infantry.
  3. +4
    14 November 2017 11: 10
    If it is a VHF band suppression station, then it works for 30-40 km. Well, earlier on the “Injections” and “Pyramids” it was so. In principle, the automatic mode and partly semi-automatic mode should protect against homing ammunition. Although, who checked this ?! But from ordinary artillery fire or, God forbid, “Grad”, there’s no chance. Guard cars on the march or when working in intelligence mode, for this "special forces"? The company includes four vehicles, and not armored, they are deployed at a decent distance from each other. One shot from a KUNG sniper rifle and all. At the exercises in Gorokhovets, when we were working against a tank regiment, after 15 minutes of active work, we were "destroyed" by a missile bomb attack. Maybe for HF this works, but VHF is doubtful.
    1. 0
      14 November 2017 15: 00
      missile bomb? but which is more accurate? just in 15 minutes it was easier for tanks to drive up to you and shoot from cannons. and aircraft with missiles in 15 minutes do not fly after all.
    2. 0
      14 November 2017 18: 06
      Quote: Petrik66
      automatic mode and partly a semi-automatic must protect against homing ammunition

      How so?
      Quote: Petrik66
      after 15 minutes of active work, we were "destroyed" by a missile bomb attack.

      This is more real.
      Quote: venik
      “phantoms” - a signal reflected from “terrain folds” - can “distort” the bearing,

      Can. But even at the old RTR stations, the trained crew eliminates the “phantom” from the real signal. On new ones, I think this is done by the computer automatically.
      1. 0
        12 December 2017 10: 04
        In automatic mode, suppression was carried out only at the time of operation of the enemy station. When asked about airplanes - the tanks were jammed (communication) and some just became. According to rumors, the generals began to demand to immediately stop this ..... and not interfere with the breakthrough of the guards. Which was done.
        1. +1
          13 December 2017 19: 17
          Quote: Petrik66
          suppression was carried out only at the time of operation of the enemy station.

          This disrupted guidance only in the very first generation of anti-radar missiles. Already the second generation remembered where to fly, even if the source went out. The accuracy of the PRL rocket, of course, decreases when the source is turned off, but the likelihood of damage is sufficient.
          And now, when the enemy’s RTR is simply detecting the position of all EM sources, especially EW stations, the enemy can already strike at these coordinates more than.
  4. +2
    14 November 2017 15: 44
    In one of the units, the OCHNAZ saw how one of the officers drove a unit of soldiers along an obstacle course and they practiced tactics in the forest and shot at the firing range and the person normally explained and showed how they approached him, talked to him, a man without ambition, the senior lieutenant who graduated from the NVVKU and traveled on a business trip to the Caucasus drove the poor osnazovs and they liked nothing when such officers were engaged with them, I didn’t notice any nerds with glasses there, there were many athletes, some were a boxer with the 1st rank, some were a sms fighter, football ists, etc., so that nothing and laugh the way many of these so-called nerds foreign ocheeeeen well spoken.
    1. 0
      14 November 2017 18: 22
      Quote: Cadet
      laughing in vain

      Nobody laughs at the special forces. On the contrary, we suggest saving them for the work that the technician cannot do. For example: “Here in this area there is a buried repository of the enemy’s tactical nuclear weapons. But the exact coordinates are not known, it was not possible to establish the reconnaissance by technical means. Task: secretly go to the specified area by XX, find the storage, report the coordinates and track the result of our airstrike. destroy nuclear weapons from the storage facility and destroy it on their own. "
      It is for such a task that special forces are teaching a foreign language in order to take the “language” with the corresponding chevron and have a heart-to-heart chat with him. No RTR can do this.
      1. 0
        14 November 2017 18: 32
        so no one laughs at the special forces, just many had the impression that bespectacles serve in the outfit - weaknesses (no offense to people with poor eyesight), I've personally always respected and respect the infantry))).
        1. 0
          14 November 2017 18: 43
          Quote: Cadet
          in outfit

          Special Forces - this is the abbreviation "Special Purpose", this is the current special forces. And the Horde (separate radio divisions) - the current RTR (radio technical intelligence) - is now no one calls Special Forces (Special Forces).
          1. 0
            14 November 2017 18: 49
            aware of these notation))). I ask a friend where he served? judging by the chevrons in the airborne forces? Answers: Yes, he served in the Airborne Forces in the Gro division. he notes on August 29, August 2, October 24 and November 5.
    2. +2
      14 November 2017 22: 15
      Your commander didn’t teach. You need to learn how to determine who the unit that has just arrived in front of you is? Friends or enemies? That’s the question. They approach you, like yours, they say the password. You miss them, and they cut you. And tactics it will not help here.
      1. 0
        15 November 2017 15: 30
        The commanders taught us military affairs and taught us normally, but the majority obviously didn’t play enough in the war to look for internal enemies of the former, because these words do not apply to you.
        1. +1
          15 November 2017 16: 50
          Do you consider the enemy DRG an internal enemy? A strange conclusion was not true.
          1. +1
            15 November 2017 18: 59
            You know sometimes the actions of a commander or commander do more harm than the actions of the DRG, you just misunderstood me or read inattentively, I know perfectly well what the DRG is, how the special forces differ from the outfit, that before the outfit was special forces, I wrote about RTR i.e. OSNAZovtsev, unnecessarily, was on a business trip in the RTR part and saw life there, it is rare in our time who teaches how to work with a bayonet who is entering the guard on techniques with weapons, etc. it was interesting to watch them sometimes when the time was. Here is an example of an internal enemy or friend, how will YOU think? In one large organization of the Russian Federation, subordinates decided to congratulate their boss, whose subordinate about 200 people had a holiday on November 4 with Unity Day, so the leader answered that he was a Pole by nationality, the holiday was foreign to him, that his ancestors had been sent to Siberia, and that family tragedy, etc.
            1. 0
              15 November 2017 19: 17
              You also wanted to give an example of Gorbachev.
              1. 0
                15 November 2017 19: 19
                And here is Gorbachev? Nevermind.
            2. +1
              10 December 2017 13: 25
              Quote: Cadet
              In one large organization of the Russian Federation

              If this organization is from the power block, then you must inform the special officer - the operative officer of the special department of the FSB about this case. This is a serious question.
              1. +1
                10 December 2017 17: 02
                So this man left the system, thanks to his father, who is now in the capital. It’s just that he’ll dismiss everything, and so it will not be the first time or the last.
                1. +1
                  13 December 2017 19: 28
                  Quote: Cadet
                  So this man left the system, thanks to his father, who is now in the capital.

                  So all the more it is necessary to report such moods of such people.
                  Quote: Cadet
                  He’ll just dismiss and that's it

                  Well, here it is ... Everyone chooses a woman, religion, road ...
  5. +2
    14 November 2017 18: 21
    You need to raise the level as soon as there is an opportunity for this ..
    For example, recently our scouts, after the ARMY-2017 went to the Cambridge Patrol competition .. They lost only to the Britons (familiar terrain, etc.))), and there are many different countries participating ..
    Therefore - the initiative should be encouraged.
  6. 0
    14 November 2017 18: 42
    And here it can be very useful precisely well-prepared groups that can quickly move into the approximate area of ​​work of EW systems in order to neutralize them.

    In modern warfare, the detected electronic warfare complex is destroyed by high-precision weapons and there is no need to send suicide bombers.
  7. +3
    14 November 2017 21: 40
    I’ve been waiting for 15 years for the opportunity to quote a statement I like.
    IT IS NOT IMPORTANT WHAT YOU HAVE FOR A PROFESSION! IF YOU SERVICE IN THE ARMED FORCES YOUR BUSINESS IS SMALL-SIT IN DIRT WITH A MACHINE AND TO ATTACK AN ENEMY. FIRST TIME YOU - INFANTRY. WHEN THE INFANTRY IN YOU DOESN'T NEED, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING. Barry Longyear
    Of course, it is not necessary to train every cook, signalman and nurse to the level of seasoned warriors. But. Each military should be able to effectively use and maintain full-time weapons. Work out combat interaction in your group. Have appropriate physical fitness.
    Without this, a soldier is not a soldier.
    1. 0
      14 November 2017 22: 16
      True. This is when the enemy is obvious. This is the easiest situation.
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  10. 0
    23 November 2017 22: 20
    SET OF SMALL TRANSMITTERS INTERFERENCE RP - 377 A
    RP - 377 A is intended:
    - to disorganize the command and control system of troops of tactical and tactical command and control units of the enemy by electronic suppression (REP) of short-wave (in the frequency range 20-30 MHz), ultra-short-wave (in the frequency range 30-120 MHz), radio relay and satellite (in the frequency range 220-400 MHz) communications;
    - to reduce the effectiveness of the enemy’s use of radio intelligence and electronic warfare by radio-electronic suppression of the enemy’s radio intelligence (in the frequency range 20-400 MHz);
    - to train the personnel of their troops to work on radio communications and radio reconnaissance in the conditions of the creation of obstructive frequency interference.
    The set of MPP RP - 377 A includes:
    - a letter interference transmitter with an antenna - 6 pcs .;
    - remote control (remote control) with an antenna - 1 pc.;
    - a power supply unit containing rechargeable batteries 10 NKGTs-3,5-7 pcs .;
    - MPP radio emission control device with antenna - 1 pc .;
    The type of radiated interference is barrage in frequency, noise-like.
    The output power of the letter transmitter is 3-5 watts.
    The weight of one transmitter is not more than 2,0 kg.
    The mass of the power supply is not more than 3,0 kg.
    The mass of the remote control is not more than 2,6 kg.
    Transmitter deployment time - no more than 5 minutes.
    The remote control provides radio control of the operation (switching on the radiation) of any number of MPP at a distance of up to 10 km. In this case, multiple and single operation modes of the MPP can be provided.
    In multiple mode, after receiving a radio command, the MPP emits interference for 6 minutes, and then automatically turns off. The MPP is turned on again after receiving a new radio command from the remote control point.
    In a single operation mode, after receiving a radio command, the MPP emits interference for 30 minutes, and then automatically turns off.
    In these modes, the MPP can be switched on at the same time (circularly) or in arbitrary order. When you turn on the MPP in random order, the transmitters of the second letter are turned on last.
    Radio control of the MPP operation can be carried out through one of three radio channels. The number of the radio channel is determined by special keys of the corresponding color inserted into the slots on the MPP and PDU cases. Principles of combat use
    The objects of electronic suppression for the MPP are located in the tactical depth of the enemy’s electronic objects - communication centers and nodes, centers, radio intelligence posts of army corps, divisions, brigades (regiments).
    For electronic suppression of enemy short-wave radio communication lines, the MPP of the first frequency letter is used. For REP lines of ultrashort-wave terrestrial radio communications, MPPs of the second, third, fourth and fifth frequency letters are used. For REP lines of radio relay and satellite communications, the MPP of the sixth frequency letter is used. For the radio-electronic means of reconnaissance and enemy electronic warfare, all six MPP frequency letters are used simultaneously. For the radio electronic objects of the enemy’s electronic equipment, they are delivered with MPP complexes. The composition of each MPP set depends on the tactical and technical characteristics of the radio facilities of the suppressed object, the radio communication distances and the MPP distance from the object.
    When nominating a group armed with MPP to the object of radio suppression and installation of MPP, secrecy should be ensured. After completing the task, the group secretly carries out a nomination to a predetermined exit area, in which it is located until further instructions are received.
    To make it difficult for the enemy to find the MPP installed at the positions, camouflage coloring of MPP cases, power supplies and antennas is carried out, their installation in hard-to-reach places.