Military Review

Replica on the theme of civilian weapons

309
For almost a decade, I have been writing and publishing materials on civilian armed self-defense, at the same time studying and tracking everything that is published on this subject. On many Internet resources, after any such publication, violent disputes flare up between supporters and opponents of civil society. weapons and self-defense with it. I also occasionally get into these fights, but now very rarely. I used to do this, hoping to convince opponents of civilian weapons with logic and facts, but now this task is no longer relevant. Those who could be persuaded, they persuaded, for example, I myself. I also thought 15 years ago, like most of my current associates, that citizens do not need self-defense weapons ... So you can’t get past our current opponents with logic and facts, they don’t have any convictions against civilian weapons! Well, let them live with this feeling, live well, argue with us as actively as they are now. For we need them to sharpen, to shade and adorn us in the eyes of the majority of those who read our disputes, listen or watch just for fun, because the debates and conversations of people keen on there is always a curious sight ...


Replica on the theme of civilian weapons


Proceeding from this, I am writing my notes, lately - exclusively for like-minded people. For the most part, they are young and hot people and easily succumb to provocations of opponents, they do not deeply think about their statements, which is why they are not accustomed. Although, if you thought about it calmly, it would be easy to notice that our opponents almost every time undress themselves and seize them, which should be noticed in front of our audience-listeners, doing this professionally and “destructively”.

This is one of the frequent provocations with which opponents try to infuriate our guys. We are constantly confused that everyone who wants to wear a personal shortbore for self-defense are cowards by nature, unable to stand up for themselves and others without weapons. Of course, it is possible to prove long and loudly that people who are ready to carry a weapon with a risk (according to the same opponents!) Cannot be cowards, that it can be stolen, it can be lost or used incorrectly, and for all this heavy responsibility follows the law . But one can agree that yes, we are “cowards” who are more afraid of death being humiliated and therefore want to have personal weapons in order to risk their lives and freedom for the honor and dignity of themselves and their loved ones. And those who are against personal weapons, are in our eyes "brave men" who are not afraid to endure any humiliation in order to survive at any cost.

Here is the typical "caring admonition" of our opponents: they say that if you are not armed, you would have survived with a robbery ("at least"). And with a weapon you just get killed. Yeah, my hand involuntarily looks for a gun for such "caring"!

Therefore, it should be unequivocally assumed that all criminals are supermen, and nothing will help them. But, in my opinion, it is this “care” that most clearly betrays the main fear of our opponents. This fear consists in the fact that they subconsciously sense their wrongness-inferiority and are afraid, if they allow a personal short-haul, to become despised by people. After all, then it will be impossible to justify his own humiliation by the fact that he could not do anything. And their lives and health will still not be threatened with any weaponry of citizens, because they are always ready to fall on their knees and do everything that armed criminals order them to do. And when all this with a calm smile is expressed to our opponents, then they themselves start to spit stupidly and climb on the wall, lowering themselves in the eyes of the most respectable public. Namely, this is what we need !! After all, the overwhelming majority of people the very problem of the right to arms and self-defense with it, in general, is indifferent, and I do not blame anyone for it, I even welcome it, perhaps! It is a healthy relationship!

For an explanation, I cite a repeatedly “ragged” example. At the very beginning of dashing 90-s in Lithuania, as in the whole Baltic, without a referendum and other noise-cod they took and allowed people a personal short-haul (and not bastard rezinplyuy). Crime fell, not having time to really take off, and - silence! And about ten years later, local sociologists conducted a survey of the population for fun, saying that it is possible for Lithuanians to allow personal pistols? The result was stunned and laughed: the majority, especially women, spoke out strongly against it!

All declared that the Lithuanian men were such bad guys and drunk (and they would be more abruptly Russian drinkers), that if they were given a weapon, the world would end! It turns out that the majority of Lithuanians simply did not notice that they had acquired the right to arms, and when they were pointed out to them, they got tired and just started talking about what they had long since heard from the media. So it turns out, I repeat, that most people do not care about the right to a weapon, but if they are asked about it, they vaguely recall what they once heard by chance with the edge of their ears, and thoughtlessly repeat it. Therefore, the task for us is to sow our view of this issue on the "edges of the ears" of the majority of Russians.
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  1. Same lech
    Same lech 14 November 2017 05: 44 New
    22
    This is for opponents of self-defense by citizens ... a typical situation in Russia ... a psycho cuts down ordinary citizens ... the police, as always, consider corpses in the finale ...




    The state was unable to protect women in advance by isolating this psycho ... in the end, three corpses ... what to do with this ???
    1. Cxnumx
      Cxnumx 14 November 2017 06: 21 New
      10
      Quote: The same Lech
      The state was unable to protect women in advance by isolating this psycho ... in the end, three corpses ... what to do with this ???

      the police should work better.
      not, of course, and in the American way (with their cult of personal weapons):
      Stephen Paddock opened fire on visitors to the country music festival. 59 people died, 500 were injured. The motives of the shooter are still incomprehensible. there by the way found that he was crazy? or had a certificate of normality?
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 14 November 2017 06: 28 New
        12
        the police should work better.


        Not the police ... a psycho in a fit of epilepsy slaughtered people like pigs .... did not register, did not control his condition, did not isolate him on time, etc. ... how many more such loonies do we have in RUSSIA ... the massacre will continue in different ways.
        As for Paddock, there’s still a lot to figure out why he put so many people ... I’ll add that not one of the visitors to the country festival was armed ... excellent meat for the armed shooter ... no return fire ... the police showed themselves disgustingly at organization of the festival without properly organizing its protection ...
        so if anyone needs to be judged it’s the Texas authorities for their carelessness.
        1. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 14 November 2017 06: 36 New
          +7
          Quote: The same Lech
          As for Paddock, there’s still to be figured out why he put so many people ... I’ll add that not one of the visitors to the country festival was armed ... great meat for an armed shooter ... no return fire

          Are you serious now? about was not armed and return fire. there they had to carry snipers with them in order to get a person at an altitude of 32 floors for hbz how many meters? and not only to "carry", you must be a pro to remove such a target. and even he would just drag himself into the festival with one Uzi-type assault rifle, and if they were all there armed with anything at all - if he suddenly opened fire from the back, he would have managed to put a couple of dozen in the crowd just by fanning a burst of fire.
          1. Same lech
            Same lech 14 November 2017 06: 40 New
            +9
            Are you serious now?


            Paddock openly brought a mountain of weapons to the hotel and the police didn’t sleep ... much more serious ... what

            there they had to carry snipers with them in order to get a person at an altitude of 32 floors for hbz how many meters?


            Well, Paddock got it ...
            the police must have rifles in their cars just in case ... Texas all the same.
            1. Cxnumx
              Cxnumx 14 November 2017 06: 48 New
              +3
              Quote: The same Lech
              Paddock openly brought a mountain of weapons to the hotel and the police didn’t sleep ... much more serious ..

              it was about civilians like: "I add that not one of the visitors to the country festival was armed ... great meat for an armed shooter ... no return fire."
              Quote: The same Lech
              Well, Paddock got it ...

              he shot down from a previously prepared place
              Quote: The same Lech
              the police must have rifles in their cars just in case ... Texas all the same.

              no, you can certainly consider them idiots, but if it were so simple: "I took out a rifle and shot a reptile" - they probably would have done so. Texas State Yet ©
              1. Same lech
                Same lech 14 November 2017 06: 59 New
                +8
                You can certainly consider them idiots, but be so simple: "took out a rifle and shot a reptile"

                smile There are among the policemen and such unique ones ... though the balls ...

                Manden hit the target at a distance of 600 yards - about 550 meters (from the usual Colt M1873 SSA "Peacekeeper.) .. the man is 68 years old ... shooter, God forbid everyone.
                1. Cxnumx
                  Cxnumx 14 November 2017 07: 06 New
                  +5
                  Quote: The same Lech
                  Manden hit the target at a distance of 600 yards - about 550 meters

                  did he do it at night in the light of street lamps on a target above his head in a dark room?)))
                  and how many are there in the world? a few thousand? the probability of their falling even into a special detachment that has left for a place tends to zero ...
                  Threat in general, my opinion: we have enough problems with traumatism. others are not needed yet.
                  1. Titsen
                    Titsen 15 November 2017 07: 07 New
                    +2
                    Quote: K0
                    Threat in general, my opinion: we have enough problems with traumatism. others are not needed yet.


                    But my opinion is that the problem is not in the heads of ordinary citizens, but among our rulers!

                    And it is called - FEAR!

                    Only the fear not of us ordinary citizens, but for our relatives, to fear that they will be thrown off, excommunicated from the AUTHORITIES.

                    So you are AUTHORIZED CITIZENS adopt laws for people and follow them strictly, and then you will have nothing to fear!

                    And crime and hooliganism will be afraid!

                    I am for the short barrel!
            2. Yutas
              Yutas 14 November 2017 09: 00 New
              +4
              Interestingly, the same LESHA, do you yourself have shooting experience? Is it so easy to get from the ground from a short-barrel to a person who is in the premises of the 32nd floor? At least it is 80m vertically. That is, it is real firing at a distance of 120-150m. From a short-barreled weapon. On the target, most of which is hidden by the wall. In the dark. Oh well...
              1. Same lech
                Same lech 14 November 2017 09: 06 New
                +5
                ,
                Do you yourself have shooting experience? Is it so easy to get from the ground from a short-barrel to a person who is in the premises of the 32nd floor?

                Little experience is available ... smile ... I'm talking about a rifle in a police patrol car ...
                Of course I agree to get from a pistol or revolver in those conditions to Paddock is unrealistic ... but you could try to silence him for a while to get people out of the firing zone.
                The problem was that the shooter chose the ideal position for shooting and it was not possible to immediately find outbreaks of fire against the background of lights ... then the panic of people aggravated the situation ... however, it was still impossible to save people without neutralizing the shooter on time.
            3. EvilLion
              EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 30 New
              0
              Paddock openly brought a mountain of weapons to the hotel and the police didn’t sleep ... much more serious ...


              Man, you are really sick. He did not drag anything out into the open. Well, the point is that if someone VERY wants to commit an offense, or to circumvent the ban, he will do it. To do this, he will go to the ways in which a normal person simply will not bother. This is the essence of the attacker that his plate with a ban will not stop, he will take the risk and will look for a way to circumvent the ban. And it will always be like that, where the thread to the disco will come 1000 citizens who simply don’t drag the trunk there, which they don’t need there, and one that will carry some kind of risky hemorrhoids to carry the barrel.

              A rifle in cars, so I’ll tell you a clever thing now, even shortened “Kalash” are considered unsuitable for the police, because they have a very high penetration ability, and in case of shooting in a crowded place, there is a very high chance that others will be hit. And a rifle, so it’ll completely pierce through. At the same time, the stopping effect of the piercing weapon is small, for extremely close combat, where a gun from 9 mm is better, they simply do not do less, just because you need to stop the attacker with a significant pulse, that is, you need a heavy bullet at low speed.
        2. Glory1974
          Glory1974 14 November 2017 10: 47 New
          +1
          so if anyone should be judged it’s the Texas authorities for their carelessness.

          I watched your video about a psycho, now I blame our police and psychiatry for disorder.
        3. alstr
          alstr 14 November 2017 14: 56 New
          +2
          I don’t know psychos, but 18% of drivers are inadequate.

          “According to a survey conducted by Ford, the majority of Russian motorists (55%) always maintain their composure and do not react in any way to those who cut them or didn’t miss them. 24% of respondents give swear words to the offenders, but take no action in retaliation. 18% of respondents, that is, almost every fifth, admitted that in a conflict situation they take an active position and arrange a showdown - for example, they catch up with a gapeful or insolent opponent and begin to sort things out with him. "

          And now the question is: are all ready that the population will decrease by this amount?
        4. ty60
          ty60 16 November 2017 21: 13 New
          0
          Not true. There were armed CITIZENS, they essentially eliminated the shooter during the chase. Where was the police, but it wasn’t enough to compete with unarmed blacks ....
        5. EvilLion
          EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 12 New
          0
          In fact, all do not care now, why did he put so many people, the main thing is that he did it.
      2. creak
        creak 14 November 2017 09: 21 New
        15
        Quote: K0
        not, of course, and in the American way (with their cult of personal weapons):

        No, it is possible in our opinion - 77 corpses in Irkutsk from eating hawthorn - without any personal weapons and nuts ... And how many are killed with ordinary knives - is it time to ban the sale of piercing and cutting tools?
        It’s not a weapon that kills, but a man - how can one not recall Professor Preobrazhensky and the devastation in his head ... Well, who wants the reasons for this devastation ...
        The main thing is that the powers that be feel safe - the National Guard will now guard the governors, although they had not traveled alone with tram mortals in trams before ...
        And ordinary mortals we will continue to be judged for exceeding the "limits of necessary self-defense" and poke a finger in the United States with their rampant crime ...
        1. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 14 November 2017 09: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: ranger
          It’s not a weapon that kills, but a man - how can you not recall Professor Preobrazhensky and the devastation in his head ...

          fine. Are you suggesting giving everyone more weapons to make killing more effective? stabbing with a knife is a little harder than pointing and pulling the trigger. both technically and psychologically.
          Quote: ranger
          No, it is possible in our opinion - 77 corpses in Irkutsk from eating hawthorn - without any personal weapons and loonies ....

          and what side does this apply to weapons? think fake (in the same way), for example, whiskey would give a different result? and how would the presence of a firearm help in this case?)
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. astepanov
            astepanov 15 November 2017 17: 21 New
            0
            Quote: K0
            and how would the presence of a firearm help in this case?)
            A massive distribution of squeaks would reduce the number of consumers of hawthorn-based corn fluid, which is a great benefit. at least, according to the thoughts of those eager to get them, they squealed.
          3. ver_
            ver_ 18 November 2017 18: 08 New
            0
            ... the actor recently shot himself with us .. Cancer .., there was a case when the general shot himself - from pain - the pills with the drug ran out, and a new prescription was not prescribed - the overlay came out ..- the weekend .., there’s no way for the person to leave life at * peak * ...
        2. Captain45
          Captain45 14 November 2017 10: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: ranger
          No, it is possible in our opinion - 77 corpses in Irkutsk from eating hawthorn - without any personal weapons and loonies ....

          Before the hawthorn and the scorched viskar purchased through the online store, many people around the country were poisoned. The question is not the hawthorn and viscar, just like the weapon, the question is control over all this. But we have no normal state control and are not expected.
        3. your1970
          your1970 14 November 2017 17: 47 New
          +2
          Moldova, a short barrel is allowed. What do we see?
          "Moldova has become a leader among EU countries in the category of police costs. Of every 100 lei produced in Moldova, we pay about 2 lei for the services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which almost twice as much as the EU average. For comparison, in Romania, 30% less than we pay for the services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
          If Moldova reduces the costs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to the level of the EU countries, we will save about one billion lei annually. With this money, you can repair about 20 kilometers of national roads every year without taking loans for these purposes. in Moldova, the wrong ratio of police per capita. One employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs accounts for 223 citizens of Moldova. For comparison, one police officer in the EU serves 348 people, and in Romania - 377 citizens, which is 154 more than his Moldovan counterpart. From the reports of the Ministry of Internal Affairs it follows that at the beginning of 2016, 16205 police officers were registered. It is noted that in 2014 their number was 15918. This tendency in Moldova runs counter to the norms in the EU countries, where the number of police officers decreases, even if the population grows. "- this is strange - it seems like the short-barrels are allowed, crime according to all the canons of the" KS permission "should fall - but no, the costs and the number of police ABOVE than in EU countries ...
          What is it for??
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 56 New
            +3
            Quote: your1970
            Moldova, a short barrel is allowed. What do we see?
            "Moldova has become a leader among EU countries in the category of police costs. Of every 100 lei produced in Moldova, we pay about 2 lei for services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which is almost two times more than the average for EU countries. For comparison, in Romania 30% less than we pay for the services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

            And what is the relationship? From which it follows that police costs are increased precisely because of the short-barrel? And why the resolution of the short-barrel in the USA did not lead to the same effect? And why did the short-barrel ban in the UK not lead to lower police costs?
          2. Sergey Cojocari
            Sergey Cojocari 16 November 2017 15: 19 New
            +3
            If you think. that the police filled the streets of Chisinau and other cities of Moldova, you are mistaken. They, the policemen, simply raised their salaries, changed into the old Romanian uniform, bought patrol cars, and that’s all. As before, they rob, kill and rape on the streets. And the policemen as well! Firearms are extremely rare. The one who acquired it, including myself, is holding this weapon "in case of emergency" when there will be a choice between life and death.
            1. your1970
              your1970 17 November 2017 07: 39 New
              0
              and how then is this weapon "REDUCES the crime rate !!" ?? - How do supporters of CSR permits pester us - well, they say, they allowed in Moldova and immediately “the crime rate has fallen!”?
              I’m just assuming that the bulk of the men who earn money outside the country and the police are enough to reduce crime a little. And the citizens don’t have any weapons, just because there are few well-off weapons that have allowed themselves
        4. EvilLion
          EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 16 New
          +1
          Man, but it didn’t come to your head that anyone can say about self-defense? And if everyone has a gun, then the court in the case of mass PvP just does not understand who started it.

          The National Guard will now guard the governors, although they had not traveled alone with tram mortals in trams before ...


          Damn, you need to treat your head, nat. Nafig guard is not needed, they will guard themselves and so will lead. And, moreover, they turn it on. Nat. the guard appeared precisely because already everyone had their own security structures of indistinct submission.
      3. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 09: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: K0
        Stephen Paddock opened fire on visitors to the country music festival. 59 people died, 500 were injured.

        So what did Paddock shoot from, not even from a pistol?
        So, for reference, rifles (rifled and long-range) in the Russian Federation are already allowed for civil circulation.
        1. DV69
          DV69 14 November 2017 10: 49 New
          11
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          for reference, rifles (rifled and long-range) in the Russian Federation and so are already allowed for civil circulation.

          You are mistaken. A rifle (hunting) can be bought and registered by every Russian citizen after five years of owning smooth-bore weapons.
          At the same time, I want to note that despite this, the Paddocks for some reason do not appear.
          I can assume that the legalization of civilian short-arms will also not lead to an increase in the number of killings.
          And regarding the situation with the shooting of visitors to the country festival in Vegas. This is reminiscent of a well-planned provocation, and I personally have no confidence that it was Paddock who shot.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 12: 06 New
            +6
            So, for reference, rifles (rifled and long-range) in the Russian Federation are already allowed for civil circulation.

            Quote: DV69
            You are mistaken. A rifle (hunting) can be bought and registered by every Russian citizen after five years of owning smooth-bore weapons.

            So what am I wrong? Does the law require mandatory length of service for the smoothbore before acquiring rifled somehow cancels the fact that civilian rifle rifle is allowed in the Russian Federation?
            Quote: DV69
            I can assume that the legalization of civilian short-arms will also not lead to an increase in the number of killings.

            That's right. Quite the contrary, it will lead to a slight decrease in the overall crime rate and a significant decrease in the level of violent street crime.
            Quote: DV69
            And regarding the situation with the shooting of visitors to the country festival in Vegas. This is reminiscent of a well-planned provocation, and I personally have no confidence that it was Paddock who shot.

            There is a suspicion that there were several shooters, and Paddock was appointed a scapegoat.
            1. DV69
              DV69 14 November 2017 14: 01 New
              +1
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Does the law require mandatory length of service for the smoothbore before acquiring rifled somehow cancels the fact that civilian rifle rifle is allowed in the Russian Federation?

              The presence of experience in possession of smoothbore weapons is a condition for the acquisition of rifled weapons and in no way cancels its permitted turnover.
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 14: 25 New
                0
                Quote: DV69
                The presence of experience in possession of smoothbore weapons is a condition for the acquisition of rifled weapons and in no way cancels its permitted turnover.

                Here. That's right. good
          2. Andrey42
            Andrey42 16 November 2017 23: 26 New
            +1
            Rakti-Kal ... There is a suspicion that there were several shooters, and Paddock was appointed scapegoat ...

            absolutely support! It is only worth counting how many times he had to press the trigger of a civilian semiautomatic device and it becomes clear.
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 36 New
            0
            Because hunters have hunting rifles, and 99.9% of city dwellers do not go to any hunt, which means they don’t need either a gun or a rifle.
        2. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 14 November 2017 10: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          So what did Paddock shoot from, not even from a pistol?
          So, for reference, rifles (rifled and long-range) in the Russian Federation are already allowed for civil circulation.

          and citizens advocate for the permission of only pistols? Well then, I see no reason why not be satisfied with the injury. if you shoot it from the head, you can easily send it to the next world as if it were from a battlefield. hit in the temple / crown / eye = 100% guarantee. So they kind of want the type of America in the end, no?
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 12: 13 New
            +6
            Quote: K0
            and citizens advocate for the permission of only pistols? Well then, I see no reason why not be satisfied with the injury. if you shoot from her head - you can easily send to the other world

            That is why traumatism must be prohibited and removed / redeemed from the population, because it is not identifiable by the pool, it is positioned as a “non-lethal weapon” although it is easy to kill from it, it is often perceived by the owners as an MPH extension cord ... uh ... fist amplifier, which lowers the threshold its application.
            CSR in this regard is much more honest and acts much more disciplining for the owner.
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 00: 57 New
              0
              Rakti-kali That is why traumatism must be prohibited and removed / redeemed from the population, because it is not identifiable by the pool

              you must have permission for an injury (once you didn’t have to), and from what will someone take it from me? I don’t hang around with him in public places, and generally don’t hang around with him ....
              because it is not identifiable by the pool, it is positioned as a "non-lethal weapon" although it’s easy to kill from it

              But you can’t kill from pneumatics? permission for it is not necessary at all, I read the Internet, many also want to ban it and withdraw it ....
              whom are the gentlemen afraid of their people?
              and even having a short barrels will be an expensive pleasure, don’t believe me, see how much sports pistols cost .... many will not be able to afford them and ammunition too ....
              https://www.air-gun.ru/sportivnoe-oruzhie/sportiv
              nie-pistoleti
              a person who does not have weapons handling skills and does not know the legal basis for its use will be walking hemorrhoids for himself in the first place, and the pros will not constantly go with him unless this is directly related to his work ....
              give me the right to wear a short barrel, and I myself will figure it out whether I need it or not ... and I will use my right to wear it or not .... it's up to me ...
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 13: 11 New
                +2
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                you must have permission for an injury (once you didn’t have to), and from what will someone take it from me?

                With the arbitrariness of the state will be taken, have already passed it. And yet I am not for “taking”, but for “buying out”.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                But you can’t kill from pneumatics? permission is not needed at all

                From the one for which you do not need permission, you can not kill. And yes, I'm sure. He was a witness as one boy accidentally shot himself in the eye, so he not only did not die, but even managed to save his eye.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                and even having a short barrel is an expensive pleasure to be,

                Who argues.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                Do not believe me, see how much sports pistols cost .... for many they will not be affordable and the ammunition for them too ....

                I believe it, but now the prices are wildly overpriced. See how much PM costs in the USA - emnip from 150 to 300 evergreen Washingtonians for a new one. Cartridges 9x18 for it cost about 200 bucks per 1000 pieces.
                I somehow compared the AR-15 in a store in my city and in the USA - with us it cost 274.000 rubles, with the Yankees 1200 dollars, that is, 72 thousand at the current rate.
                If the arms market expands and there is competition on it, then prices will go down.
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                give me the right to wear a short barrel, and I myself will figure it out whether I need it or not ... and I will use my right to wear it or not .... it's up to me ...

                Golden words!
                1. your1970
                  your1970 16 November 2017 13: 44 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  If the arms market expands and there is competition on it, then prices will go down.
                  -What a fright prices will fall and there will be competition ???
                  This is in the states of the demon cloud of factories, factory and private workshops !!!
                  And with us, everything 3 (THREE !!!) factory !!! Or do you think immediately the crowds of those who want to run out to launch weapons? Or do you think that these giants will let go of their hands MONOPOLY??? They will crush import (if possible) + certification + transportation + customs
                  barring duties (unlike auto-I personally will behind the fact that there will be little import and the bulk of the money will go to OUR WEAPONS plants)
                  So if the market grows and demand appears (after CSR permission) - then prices will definitely rise by 20-30 percent immediately ....
                  If in doubt, look at our MONOPOLISTS(Russian Railways / Gazprom / others ...) - and it will be very clear to you: what will happen to CSR prices
                  after a sharp increase in demand ...
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 14: 53 New
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    prices definitely rise by 20-30 percent immediately ....

                    I will answer in your words -
                    Quote: your1970
                    with what fright?
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 16 November 2017 15: 26 New
                      +2
                      i.e., objections in essence about the existence of monopolists and their possible collusion no
                      Can you quote the price of gasoline / bread / vodka / medicine / motor oil / etc.? Have you ever seen a price drop (other than lowering the price of moonshine), have you ever seen a drop in the past 20 years.
                      Do you want to believe - what will be our PM - 2000 rubles will cost, believe ....
                      necessarily cheaper - you believe in it, the monopolies will certainly meet you ....

                      Z.Y. The red price of Vesta is 300-350 rubles, they only sell it WHY SOMETHING for 500. And there is demand, and there’s a queue, and they have been waiting for months — the price is just not falling for some reason ..
            2. brn521
              brn521 15 November 2017 17: 11 New
              0
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              That is why injuries must be prohibited and removed / redeemed from the population.

              Well, if this question was discussed below, I also leafed through this post, but did not attach any importance. Since it is frank nonsense and an attempt to evade the topic. What do you dislike about injury in terms of self-defense? As I understand it, you think injuries are quite powerful and effective in self-defense. You can even kill if you wish. Problem identifying a bullet? Well, the smoothbore is the same. And many polygonal cuts, too.
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              often perceived by owners as an MPH extension cord ...

              Well, that’s the problem of getting permission. Some users are really very surprised when they find that they are not hanging on ordinary hooliganism + scuffle, as they are used to, but a very specific criminal article + gunshot wounds. Let these articles of laws bison and pass the exam, with a detailed story and examples. If we cannot solve such a problem with injuries, then with a firearm it will only get worse. The problem is that such weapons are too easy to use.
              And about lethality, you do not need to flog a fever. A bullet from Makarov to the knee is most likely a disability for life. A bullet from Makarych is also a “disability”, but only for a couple of weeks.
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 19: 01 New
                +1
                Quote: brn521
                Well, if this question was discussed below, I also leafed through this post, but did not attach any importance. Since it is frank nonsense and an attempt to evade the topic. What do you dislike about injury in terms of self-defense? As I understand it, you think injuries are quite powerful and effective in self-defense. You can even kill if you wish.

                A limited-range firearm is a short-barreled weapon and a barrel-free weapon designed to mechanically destroy a living target at a distance with a traumatic cartridge tossed by gear that receives directional movement due to the energy of a powder or other charge, and not intended to cause death to man;
                The problem is this dissonance. Killing from trauma is as easy as shelling pears, but defending yourself by the rules (do not shoot in the head, neck, groin, chest of women), especially in winter, is very difficult.
                Quote: brn521
                Well, that’s the problem of getting permission.

                Nope, this is the problem of perceiving hand-sinking as a "non-lethal" weapon.
                Quote: brn521
                And about lethality, you do not need to flog a fever. A bullet from Makarov to the knee is most likely a disability for life. A bullet from Makarych is also a “disability”, but only for a couple of weeks.

                The Makarych bullet will crush the knee as well as the Makarov bullet. This is if you fall into the knee. But if you hit a shin covered with a hard berets, the Makarov bullet will stop the attacker, and the Makarych bullet will inflame.
                1. brn521
                  brn521 16 November 2017 13: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  The Makarych bullet will crush the knee as well as the Makarov bullet. This is if you fall into the knee. But if you hit a shin covered with a hard berets, the Makarov bullet will stop the attacker, and the Makarych bullet will inflame.

                  Would have decided. Then you Makarych wasted, then no. Among the undeveloped, there really was such trash for which berets would become a problem. But this is not about that.
                  As I understand it, the korotkostvol is completely out of business here. You want to expand the limits of acceptable self-defense. Why, then, all these dances on the theme of "allow kotrotkostvol"? The topic should be called "allow to kill and mutilate," because this is the key point. And to him important applications. For example, a car DVR - please. And for personal wearing - figs there, several articles at once. Despite the fact that in such difficult situations as the use of weapons to kill, the attached video with sound is sometimes the only thing that will allow our lawyer to somehow resolve the consequences.
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Nope, this is the problem of perceiving hand-sinking as a "non-lethal" weapon.

                  So perception is where it came from? Poor user preparation before issuing permission. But when we take care of the quality of preparation, and even with specific examples, then the jambs of the entire system will emerge, which will need to be legally resolved. Because if you can only wear and nothing more can be done, then preparation will be impossible.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 14: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: brn521
                    Why, then, all these dances on the theme of "allow kotrotkostvol"? The topic should be entitled "allow to kill and maim"

                    Sorry, but after this passage I understand that you are a hypocrite and a demagogue, so I don’t intend to continue the conversation with you. Sarabane!
                    1. brn521
                      brn521 16 November 2017 17: 24 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      Sorry, but after this passage I understand that you are a hypocrite and a demagogue

                      My opinion was already indicated by the first post here. The article and many posts under it are another cry on the topic "give the baby a rattle."
                      And in the end, you only confirmed this matter. This is exactly what you have to do with a firearm, if you do not understand that pistols are designed primarily to kill and maim. And if the state is not going to delegate this right to you, then you do not need a firearm for self-defense. Also, if you have a problem with injuries and their application from the point of view of the legal field, then all the more forget about a full firearm, as there are even more problems with him. This is not demagogy. This is the simplest logic.
                      1. ty60
                        ty60 16 November 2017 21: 29 New
                        +1
                        This is not logic, it is a statement of fact. Injury can frighten a person with an unstable psyche. A criminal can only be stopped by making it impossible to continue to act.
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 58 New
            0
            Quote: K0
            and citizens advocate for the permission of only pistols? Well then, I see no reason why not be satisfied with the injury. if you shoot from the head with it, you can easily send it to the next world as if it were from a battlefield.

            Shoot in the head from a "limited destruction weapon" STRICTLY FORBIDDEN
        3. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 15 November 2017 06: 52 New
          0
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          So what did Paddock shoot from, not even from a pistol?

          here you have another fresh
          Deadly shooting at a school in the USA: 14.11.17/XNUMX/XNUMX
          Already five dead. 5 people became victims of shooting in one of the schools in Teham County (California, USA). Two children were injured.

          yes, we have news about "stabbed". but they cut in 99% своих, and rarely does it go beyond the boundaries of a house / apartment. killing with a knife is harder in every sense. and a gun in every sense is easier.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 15 November 2017 07: 14 New
            +8
            Throw you to convince the patient. People are clearly “shifted” in the short barrel.
            Quote: K0
            ... killing with a knife is harder in every sense. and a gun in every sense is easier

            You're right. By the way, this is what I have already tried to convey to the patient, in vain.
            Chel, IMHO, lives in a parallel world:
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Kamerad, I wrote earlier, I repeat, I have had to deal with more than once itаteved aggression against me or my loved ones, a little over a year ago I grabbed 4 gopobydloids with armed knives and well seasoned with alcohol, the result of the battle was one wounded on their part, the rest fled. But after a few months I damaged my spine and there is a non-zero probability that in the future I can only move with a crutch or a cane

            That is, a person is clearly looking for (and finds) adventure "in his second 90". "Treat" is, IMHO, is useless. For some year to climb in a couple of serious (in words) adventures - This is undoubtedly talent.
            The cop doesn’t shine in the nearest time wedge, and at such a pace the loader will run into himself, and in the very foreseeable future.
            And the flag in hand, bright green yes
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 29 New
              0
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Throw you patient to convince

              Quote: Golovan Jack
              it's up to the patient

              Quote: Golovan Jack
              "Treat" is, IMHO, is useless.

              How nice ... But you know that mentally ill people usually just think that others are sick, and they identify themselves with someone who is able to heal.
              So your "diagnosis of photography" turned out to be a "Freudian reservation." laughing
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 15 November 2017 16: 39 New
                +9
                Well, damn it, they made a cage for fry from the site ...
                ---
                I didn’t call you, talk to the mirror ... gun pistol negative
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 19: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  Well, damn it, they made a cage for fry from the site ...

                  You can fix this by leaving the site.
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  I didn’t call you, talk to the mirror ... gun pistol

                  Sober up when, translate it into Russian, or at least into Japanese.
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: K0
            here you have another fresh
            Deadly shooting at a school in the USA: 14.11.17/XNUMX/XNUMX

            All victims are killed or injured with a rifle. Schools are "hans free zones", accordingly, no one could provide armed resistance to the hacking.
            These are the pies with kittens ...
            And if someone had a gun at school, it is quite possible that there would be only one corpse, and that would be a ghoul himself.
        4. EvilLion
          EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 32 New
          0
          Rifles like the same SCS for civilian use, for example, require a reduction in the aiming range.
      4. CONTROL
        CONTROL 14 November 2017 09: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: K0
        Stephen Paddock opened fire on visitors to the country music festival. 59 people died, 500 were injured. The motives of the shooter are still incomprehensible. there by the way found that he was crazy? or had a certificate of normality?

        But with this “Paddock” - well, no one can convince me that a 64-year-old retiree (a state pensioner!), Not poor by American standards, dragged a truck of weapons alone (up to 30 units of a long barrel ... a ton of weight, no less!) and ammunition in a hotel room on some high floor there ... And alone from this high floor for a short time - sighting! - shot alone the crowd from a distance of 400-500 meters! Even in short bursts of M-16, it is simply impossible for an experienced shooter! What about barrel heating? And a bunch of other factors - reloading, etc.? ...
        With this "Paddock" - nonsense 100% of the American media and the investigation ...
        1. your1970
          your1970 14 November 2017 18: 00 New
          0
          Quote: CONTROL
          alone truck weapons (up 30 long barrels ...ton weight, no less!)
          -
          1) "We found 23 firearms units in (hotel) Mandalay Bay and 19 at his home in Mesquite (Nevada - ed.), "said a police spokesman."
          2) “The criminal’s arsenal included semi-automatic rifles Colt AR-15 (en) and its modifications (FN-15, DDM4), a Kalashnikov assault rifle and modifications” —weight AR-15 is roughly 3 kg, Kalashnikov’s weight should be 4,5 kg (maximum) = 4,5 * 23 =103 kg - what a fright ton??
          3) "He carried it to his hotel room ten suitcases with weapons and ammunition. "where is the truck here ??

          ZY.No, of course, it is possible to pour a bucket of sand in BELAZ and say - that there was BELAZ sand. But tenfold exaggeration it's kakbe fool ....
        2. ty60
          ty60 16 November 2017 21: 32 New
          0
          He had a civilian version of the M-14
      5. Hell's Angel
        Hell's Angel 14 November 2017 11: 53 New
        +1
        What weapons did Stephen Paddock fire from? Voooot! The author of the "short barrel" broadcasts. Now imagine such Stephen Paddock. Only here. He occupies a high-rise position with TRG - 42 (legally acquired) and begins shooting citizens. What will be the result? I think there will be no less killed and wounded. But such rifles are allowed after all!
      6. AUL
        AUL 14 November 2017 13: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: K0
        Quote: The same Lech
        The state was unable to protect women in advance by isolating this psycho ... in the end, three corpses ... what to do with this ???

        the police should work better.
        That's right, it should! And for a long time I have to ... and a lot .. But that's just not in a hurry to give our debts to us (and, by the way, exists for our money)! But when it starts to work as it should - IMHO, the question of weapons itself will disappear. For irrelevance. In the meantime, unfortunately, it is very relevant.
        And judges should also be guided by article 37 of the Criminal Code. Should! But they apply, for some reason, others (not in favor of the defender).
      7. PPD
        PPD 14 November 2017 14: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: K0

        not, of course, and in the American way (with their cult of personal weapons):
        In American terms, is it like approaching anyone and despite the fact that he put his hands on the steering wheel and there is no sign of aggression to shoot the hell with dogs and who came up with everyone in the district?
        The main thing is to say that the terrorist and he defends the interests of the United States!
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 17: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: PPD
          In American terms, is it like approaching anyone and despite the fact that he put his hands on the steering wheel and there is no sign of aggression to shoot the hell with dogs and who came up with everyone in the district?

          Guys, well, do not invent. Now the cops in yankistan are almost entirely wearing bodikamas and it’s clearly seen from the shoots that the cops first repeatedly warn Suspect and only if he begins to lift the barrel in their direction open fire.
      8. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 16: 46 New
        0
        And where is the weapon and the Paddock? He fired more than one and here is pure politics.
    2. Captain45
      Captain45 14 November 2017 10: 36 New
      +2
      Quote: The same Lech
      This is for opponents of self-defense by citizens ... a typical situation in Russia ... a psycho cuts down ordinary citizens ... the police, as always, considers corpses in the finale ..

      And here is crazy and weapons? I saw this video shot on the recorder’s camera, the driver who shot this could get out of the car and disarm the moron with a tire, unless of course the driver is a MUZHIK, and not a miracle that feels like a cool macho who can save the world only with a gun in his hands. And without a gun, how can you save the world? After all, they can cut it, and then save the world with a shaketina from the fence .. fu .. it’s so not aesthetically pleasing and not creative that it’s better to sit in the car. But really about this nut-in the USSR there was psychiatry, albeit punitive in relation to Gozmanov-Svanidze-Navalny, and so on. But people with really socially dangerous behavior were sitting in "psychiatric hospitals" and did not walk around the streets. But they were there because of observance of “human rights”, which were pushed hard to us from the West, just like the “inalienable right” to weapons, as its adherents convince us of this. Now the loonies go with knives and hammers, the result is still single corpses, but loonies with weapons are already appearing. The result is up to a dozen. Come on, adherents, propagate further and there will be hundreds, as in your favorite example, the United States.
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 12: 19 New
        +5
        Quote: Captain45
        unless of course the driver MUZHIK

        And if this is BABA? Such a fat woman, she, too, should in case of which an attacker with the help of kung fu neutralize? And if it's a 45 kilogram girl, and the attacker is a hefty muda ... uh ... man? And if it's a man, but on dentures or in a wheelchair? And if ... And such "if" a carriage and a small cart.
        But the fact that the criminal must be taken "off his feet" is written mostly by "pale boys" entering the puberty period.
    3. brn521
      brn521 15 November 2017 11: 59 New
      0
      Quote: The same Lech
      The state was unable to protect women in advance by isolating this psycho ... in the end, three corpses ... what to do with this ???

      Fight back with injuries.
    4. EvilLion
      EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 09 New
      0
      This is for opponents of self-defense by citizens ... a typical situation in Russia ... a psycho cuts down ordinary citizens ... the police, as always, consider corpses in the finale ...


      You’re sick, in the Russian Federation it’s a rarity, and in the USA shooting is arranged almost every month.
  2. 210ox
    210ox 14 November 2017 05: 48 New
    +7
    I already wrote about this to everyone .. This Volgograd Misha is already pretty sick of it.
    1. SERGUS
      SERGUS 16 November 2017 13: 52 New
      0
      Quote: 210ox
      This Volgograd Misha is already pretty sick of it.

      Firstly, his article is similar to babble: cowards are not cowards, we are afraid to defend ourselves - the level of kindergarten. Secondly, I already wrote: the Right to Arms organization has more than 5 people, and in some useless Yabloko party more than 000 people. These supporters of weapons to write some kind of appeal the whole world whining and skating collect signatures. Therefore, the discussion of the legalization of weapons does not occur in the Duma, the Federation Council, with the president. Too few people with the position that problems need to be solved with the help of a barrel - that’s all! And it’s possible to discuss what’s best forever, and there and there are pros and cons, how much you can procrastinate the same thing.
  3. Nemesis
    Nemesis 14 November 2017 05: 53 New
    33
    I have written many times and will write as many times as I see fit. I’m an adult, I’m a little less than 40 years old. I have been in possession of weapons for more than 15 years ... I am a supporter of civilian weapons in Russia ... Yes, a personal pistol will not save you from a professional hit man, they even urinate state presidents ... However, most of us are not the people to be killed, like Kennedy, from a sniper rifle ... But from the company of scumbags, with knives who want to rob, rape, mock you, and then kill you, a personal gun will save you certainly ... And I don’t need to write that you can’t walk alone oh, late at night, God knows where ... I am a free person, I go where I want and when I want and do not intend to restrict my freedom ... This is a criminal should be in prison, and not a law-abiding person to close himself in his apartment, as in a prison to the cell ... I don’t need to write that you run fast ... I often go late, in the company of ladies, but I can’t run away with heels and no fists, against a flock of thugs, with knives, they will not help you, but a gun will save you for sure ...
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 14 November 2017 06: 14 New
      +3
      but the gun will save for sure ...


      It will save it ... but then they’ll probably put you in prison ... because the state doesn’t tolerate those who armedly rebuff the bandits ... how many people have already been planted and things are there. what
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 14 November 2017 06: 18 New
        19
        As my first instructor said - Let three people judge me better than six carry ... In addition, as they said in the movie “Solo swimming” - the main thing is to get washed away in time ... And there is nothing left with such laws .. .
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 14 November 2017 07: 19 New
          +9
          Quote: Nemesis
          As my first instructor said - Let three men judge me better than six men carry ...
          What prevents to live according to the precepts of this instructor? The weapon is sold, no one has forbidden self-defense and will not be able to prohibit it, but you want to kill anyone who seems potentially dangerous - kill. What is the problem? A, the problem is that "Я free man, I go where I want and when I want and do not intend to restrict my freedom ..."If you are looking for adventures on your ass, you will definitely find them, especially if you are too healthy egoism. You, after all, do not need weapons in themselves (you can have them, legally allowed, not legally any), and not permission for self-defense ( the right of everyone), you need an individual right to pass a death sentence, moreover, so that there is nothing for it. Then you don’t need to drag your devious instructor, say right away that neither the six people carrying the corpse, nor the three who judge the murderer are not interested in you. Mr. Golberg wrote and will write your articles, work out I don’t doubt that such gentlemen are concerned about the security of our Russia, its society. According to their understanding, the gun should even be in schools and kindergartens, but the citizens of one of the most armed states could not defend themselves in America the shooter, he hardly wants, it’s just that you need more weapons, I’m not ashamed to be Russian either, but to become "Nemesis" to the right and left, replacing the Law, the court and the investigation, does not seem to be correct. Probably, to each his own, one needs the right to someone else's death, others the right to his life, Find the difference, moreover, I also had a shooting instructor, and I did not replace service in the army with one shooting in the shooting range.
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 14 November 2017 07: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Per se.
            Mr Golberg
            Sorry Goldreer ...
            1. 210ox
              210ox 14 November 2017 10: 22 New
              +2
              This Goldreer defends His ... Business interests. Here and the whole supporter.
              Quote: Per se.
              Quote: Per se.
              Mr Golberg
              Sorry Goldreer ...
            2. Captain45
              Captain45 14 November 2017 10: 46 New
              +1
              Quote: Per se.
              Quote: Per se.
              Mr Golberg
              Sorry Goldreer ...

              Well it's the same thing, no difference
          2. Same lech
            Same lech 14 November 2017 08: 05 New
            +9
            nobody forbade self-defense and cannot ban

            You see what the thing is ... judges in RUSSIA very often imprison those who need to be acquitted and, on the contrary, release those who attacked a suspicious person ... I specifically monitor such cases ... and very rarely there are exceptions to this rule.
            In a quick battle, a citizen who does not have special training has no time to reflect on the degree of need to exceed self-defense ... nerves, thinking, reaction, etc. individual each time a person reacts differently ... but the behavior algorithm in these cases is always the same ...
            attack ... defense ... rebuff .... bodily injury to the attacker.
            Try to break this chain ... it won’t work ... this is a purely human factor ... which our judicial system does not want to take into account. whatin favor of the defender.
          3. Nemesis
            Nemesis 14 November 2017 08: 59 New
            16
            You leave your stormy fantasies to yourself ... I saw a psychopath and a killer right in me, but in vain ... Your conclusions are so hasty and far from the truth that it’s funny to write to you ... But I’ll try to reach your mind, at least from curiosity ... So, you are saying that I want to kill someone there and generally deal with the lynching courts ... No one is stopping me from doing this now. You write that it’s only the thought of criminal responsibility that stops me, but if you listen, I’m just crazy and nothing will stop them, in any case the Criminal Code is for sure ... Let's go further ... 1) Nobody bothers me now to buy weapons on the black market and walking in dark corners, killing anyone, at least for the reason that the police aren’t in these corners ... 2) The forensic examination cannot determine which shotgun, or injury, was shot ... possible only with rifled weapons registered with the police ... So a gun under a cloak and arrows I don’t want, it’s even easier with injury ................... Well, I’m not a killer and I’m not crazy .......... And in my opinion, the law about self-defense does not meet the needs of the defender and, first of all, protects the criminal, which is unacceptable ... And yet, mister good, to go and look for yourself the fifth point of adventure, getting up to all, it’s one thing, and when a person just goes about his business, for example to visit, even late and not in a fashionable area, it is his right and I see no reason to limit myself to him ...
            1. Per se.
              Per se. 14 November 2017 09: 33 New
              +4
              Quote: Nemesis
              You leave your stormy fantasies with you ...
              Just I do not have violent fantasies, how it is necessary to save the beauty that is being raped by the "homeless", or how the spit falls, when there is one righteous display of the "magic" pistol. You don’t bother much about the consequences of legitimizing a short-barrel in Russia, and when you go, for example, to visit, as you put it, you will seem like a robber to another “samurai”, not so bold but also with a “gun” ... cars are not much any impudent lags, such as "golden boys", discipline, I doubt very much that a weapon, with the right to shoot to kill, will change this for the better. You, after all, are not talking about the improvement of the law; quite the contrary, its imperfection is a reason for you to moan a weapon with the right to execute anyone who would be dangerous. The fetishists of His Majesty's Pistol, more dangerous than bandits. Crime, you say, can be a matter in society itself, when impoverishment of the population, uncertainty about the future, the decline of education and culture, and breeds this very crime? Let's change it, let's make the laws clearer and fairer, but then what will the new "samurai nobles", homegrown pimples "Batmans" do, and simply bychary, whom the whim burst open ... The question is how and what will the “Rights” servants do? on weapons "that articles are now being written, to please their masters from the arms lobby (first of all, not our orphaned gunsmiths, but the West rushing into our market).
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 14 November 2017 09: 42 New
                16
                1) You write nonsense and the saddest thing is that you don’t understand this ... 2) I have already been attacked by such heroes, 7 on one, with knives ... They just approached, pushed and impudently stated their demands ... After a shot at the air was blown off by the whole brigade ... So it’s you, theorist, and I know what I’m writing about ... And the cases when a man escorts a woman home in the evening, and a company of scumbags on the way urges him to get out and leave them his lady, too, is not uncommon ... To confuse, as you write, a passerby with a robber, can only be a sick woman with a full head neuro stenik ...... You do not like the idea of ​​people carrying weapons, but I do not like the mess in the streets and how to feed me with my fantasies, go and get the authorities to clean up the streets, and if the authorities cannot ensure my safety, then let they don’t stop me from providing it myself ... As soon as the streets become less than normal, the number of people who want to buy weapons in Russia will decrease ... Make sure that a person does not have a need for weapons, and for this point in country order ... By banning weapons you play into the hands of pres dumbasses and the current law on self-defense are also in the hands of only bandits
                1. Per se.
                  Per se. 14 November 2017 09: 49 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Nemesis
                  After a shot in the air, the whole brigade was blown away like a wind ...
                  And then what are you missing now? Seven, you say, with knives ... And didn’t you stick a grinding in the back without noise and dust, taking the "lit" gun? You about Thomas, you are about Eremu ... I don’t argue with the heroes, not my specialty, you have your opinion, Nemesis, your business, and I hope that your problems will not become problems of ordinary people. Good luck.
                  1. Nemesis
                    Nemesis 14 November 2017 10: 00 New
                    +9
                    Sharpening in the back is not realistic .... if they just don’t want to kill you ... It’s not interesting for scumbags to kill you right away, they will want to make fun of you, and if they want to make fun of you, then you will have time to evaluate the situation, which means that you are stabbed like cattle in a slaughterhouse, they just won’t be able to do so ..... It’s possible that they will still kill you, but you will have time to kill one of the attackers and then, by his corpse, it will be easier for the police to figure out the rest ... And weapons, whom you are so afraid of, is not a problem on the black market, for the whole public to which you rank me ...
      2. Nemesis
        Nemesis 14 November 2017 07: 03 New
        18
        In general, I am for the abolition of any restrictions on self-defense ... The person who committed the attack must bear all responsibility ...
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 14 November 2017 07: 08 New
          +5
          In general, I am for the abolition of any restrictions on self-defense ... The person who committed the attack must bear all responsibility ...


          I support ... except for some nuances ... well, for example, provocations ... when someone intentionally provokes a person to attack ...

          Imagine that the ill-wisher tells you that your relative is being killed in the next apartment and you noblely run to save him ... rush there and get a bullet in return ... I think it's better to contact the police in such cases.
          1. destination
            destination 14 November 2017 07: 33 New
            +9
            Nemesis is completely on your side !!! good hi The namesake, you're wrong now, we are sane and adequate people, we can allow the official firearm ... wink
          2. Nemesis
            Nemesis 14 November 2017 09: 13 New
            +5
            In any case, the police will begin to sort it out, whether it’s self-defense or intentional murder ... So something like that ... Personally, I won’t break into the next apartment, but I’ll just call it with my gun ready and if they refuse me to inspect the apartment , I’ll block the exit from it and call the police, and at the same time I will take with me the one who joked like that ...
            1. your1970
              your1970 14 November 2017 18: 35 New
              0
              Quote: Nemesis
              , with a gun to be ready and if they refuse me to inspect the apartment,
              -What a fright you should let inspect another's apartment? Who are you? Yes you even according to the current law it’s already possible to kill from the entrance - "burst unknown (not in uniform!) with weapons - I was forced (in his !!!) the apartment - chop it with an ax / hit with a rolling pin / shoot from a hunting / drop a cabinet on it "and there will be quite legitimate self-defense with CASH side.
              And the immobilizer will say that he joked that he did not know - that you are with weapons, that your reactions are not very normal ....
              There is NO criminal liability for this and will not be

              And as a result, you are either in a cemetery or in prison (you burst in and threatened you). And this is a primitive situation, in which you, the omnipotent owner of the COP, will be extreme ....
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 15 November 2017 02: 33 New
                +2
                1) I will not break into the apartment, but I will ask the landlord to voluntarily show me the apartment so that I can make sure that my relatives are not held in it by force ... In case of refusal, I will not rush into the apartment, but will block the exit from it until arrival of the police ... 2) The one who joked so will be responsible for the false call of the police ...
                1. your1970
                  your1970 15 November 2017 09: 00 New
                  0
                  Quote: Nemesis
                  1) I will not break into the apartment, but I will ask the owner voluntarily show me the apartmentso that I can make sure that my relatives are not forcibly kept in it ... In case of refusal, I will not rush into the apartment, but will block the exit from it before the police arrive ... 2) The one who will be responsible for the false call of the police so joking ...

                  1) what fright should I do at all someone with a weapon "voluntarily show the apartment" ??? Even current laws allow me to do this - NOT TO DO!!!!!
                  2) I, in response to your “blocking”, also call the police and say - “Here I have a nut on the door with weapons !! Aggressive !! Requires so I let him into the apartment !!! "... Even NOW there is a chance that the police CAN start shooting FIRST.. If it’s like in the USA, they’ll just shoot you
                  3) a fine for a false call to the police - a) yes, he will gladly have it !!! pay - looking at how you are twisted / put in a funnel / taken to the site. And without this in any way - you restricted someone else's freedom (blocked the door) - illegally, it was your fault that I might have been stressed, I was afraid to leave home, was late for work / train, etc.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 38 New
                    0
                    Quote: your1970
                    why should I even give someone with a weapon "voluntarily show an apartment" ???

                    1. Should not, no one will force you.
                    2. You won’t even know about weapons, because nobody is going to poke your barrel in your nose, the weapons will be hidden by clothing.
                    Quote: your1970
                    in response to your "blocking" I also call the police and say - "Here I have a nuthouse with a gun on the door !! Aggressive !! Requires me to let him into the apartment !!!"

                    If you do not hold anyone in this apartment illegally, of course, call, but that is what the one who blocks the apartment is seeking.
                    But if you really are holding someone there, then I doubt that you will call a police outfit, because they will inspect the apartment anyway and your crime will be solved.
                    Quote: your1970
                    Yes, he would love it !!! pay - looking at how you are twisted / put in a funnel / taken to the site.

                    They will twist and take away both, and even the owner of the apartment and everyone there. So no one will look from the side.
                    Quote: your1970
                    illegally, it’s your fault that I may have had stress, I was afraid to leave the house, I was late for work / train, etc.

                    You can always file a claim for damages / harm caused to you under civil law.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 15 November 2017 15: 53 New
                      0
                      1) and 2) points - I quoted you verbatim .. Repeat quoting ??? Good
                      "just call her with a gun to manufacture and if to me refuse to inspect the apartment, block the exit from it "

                      And for me, the law-abiding owner of the apartment, the consequences are zero, for the ill-wisher - the maximum penalty for a fake call, you with a gun in your pocket - it will look a little strange after giving evidence, "ran in, stood under the door and doesn’t let anyone out !!" I tried to get out - he didn’t let me out, swearing ... Nervous, maybe crazy? "Having learned about the weapons from you, I’ll add, he wanted to take me hostage, illegal restriction of freedom, namely yours "blocking" on the face. You can demand on this basis to institute criminal proceedings under the article - they will refuse to someone, but they may also initiate (if you, for example, the door of a judge belay block) ... And the civil suit, if I’m really late for the train because of your locks, you can file, and the court will tell you about the facts that took place ....
                      You are in any situation, extreme ...

                      Z.Y. I will tell the neighbors (good - and also grannies in the driveway) the same thing - only slightly (or not slightly !!) abusively. Like, a scumbag runs around with a trunk, breaks down for everyone. Be afraid of him - he’s surely a crazy guy ....

                      It the current reality....
                      1. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 19: 07 New
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        1) and 2) points - I quoted you verbatim .. Repeat quoting ???

                        Did you quote me? Right? Sure?
                        Quote: your1970
                        Take away and ?? For me, the law-abiding owner of the apartment, the consequences are zero,

                        And for the unlawful?
                        Quote: your1970
                        This is the current reality ....

                        These are your fantasies.
                      2. your1970
                        your1970 15 November 2017 19: 18 New
                        0
                        Rakti-kali- I admit my guilt, quoted Nemesis
                        What does this change for the situation described by him?
                        Fantasy? Want to, think so, your business ...
                  2. Nemesis
                    Nemesis 16 November 2017 04: 27 New
                    0
                    Not a ride ... In case of a false call to the police, for example about a terrorist attack, or hostages, and you are supposedly my relatives, they will evacuate you from the station, break into your apartment, and not me, but OMON, if you don’t open the doors and nobody cares where you are late. The responsibility for the false call lies with the one who brewed everything ... So you will sue your joker, and the police will not shoot, because I will also call the police, describe the situation and will meet her. ..
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 16 November 2017 06: 51 New
                      0
                      Quote: Nemesis
                      So you will sue your joker, and the police will not shoot, because I will also call the police, describe the situation and will meet her ...
                      - the whole situation is o-very controversial, maybe so or maybe that way request
                      1. Nemesis
                        Nemesis 16 November 2017 11: 15 New
                        0
                        Nothing controversial, the one responsible for the fake police call is responsible
    2. Cat Marquis
      Cat Marquis 14 November 2017 07: 57 New
      15
      Crossroads. Before a pedestrian who doesn’t decide to cross the road, the car brakes with a squeal and the driver waves a “come in!” Type, the pedestrian waves a “pass!” Type driver. The driver leans out of the window: "You are a pedestrian. You are coming!" The pedestrian responded: "Thank you. I'm not in a hurry, but you can see it in a hurry, so go ahead!" On the other side of the street, two grandmothers are watching this dialogue with interest and one other says: “Look, Mikulishna, what kind of people we have become polite and cultured, after they adopted and introduced the law on the free carrying and use of weapons ....”
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 14 November 2017 08: 21 New
        +3
        smile goodMarquis cat ... dreams, dreams ... but essentially true.
      2. Per se.
        Per se. 14 November 2017 14: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: Marquis Cat
        Vish, Mikulishna, what kind of people have been polite and cultural have become, after they adopted and introduced the law on the free carrying and use of weapons ..
        Of course, the problem of peace and peace is only in this ... In the Wild West, everyone had a free bearing of weapons, however, it was not very cultural and safe there. Let us also remember that “the weapon disciplines” is from the same tale. The car, which is so often dragged in to the statistics of victims, logically, should also be disciplined, people pass on the rights, there are laws, but this is not so. There will be those who will arrange "races on Gelendvagena" or dump everything on a "drunk boy" when they get the trunks, for them little will change in morality, the weapon does not discipline the bastards, and the scoundrels will not become more honest with it. Enough of these tales, although in the cemetery it can be quiet. If the States began with separatism, the genocide of the indigenous population, the slave trade and racism, they began with adventurers, gangsters and hanged men, all the world's rabble, their customs in relation to weapons are understandable. If there is peace and silence in the same "microscopic" Switzerland with arms, then there would be peace and silence without arms. We live in Russia, and the West’s concern about our “rights to weapons” does not inspire confidence in me personally. And, finally, the voiced politeness of drivers, rather, will be the result of education and culture, than the fear of getting a bullet for a sidelong glance.
        1. Nemesis
          Nemesis 15 November 2017 02: 36 New
          +3
          Yes, the golden youth you are writing about already has trunks bought on the black market and laws for such are not written ... Such as you impede the receipt of weapons by law-abiding people, bandits your orders are not indicated ...
    3. d ^ Amir
      d ^ Amir 14 November 2017 08: 43 New
      +4
      in our realities, the gun will let you down under the article on exceeding self-defense measures !!!!!!!!! if you are not shy about initiating proceedings against girls with scissors !!!!!!! start on from the main thing with the LAW ON SELF-DEFENSE !!!!!!!! in the same Latvia, as I was told, the owner of the site warned the eccentrics on his site that he hadn’t called them .... warned two .... and then fired a warning shot ... shot in the asses ... the police arrived ... CHECKED THE LAW OF OWNERSHIP OF ARMS ... and ..... EVERYTHING !!!!!! drunk idiots were taken to the hospital yet ... this ends the story .... well, not the best movie but favorite episode:
      - I’ll bury you on the slope, and the sheriff will not say a word ....
    4. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 09: 35 New
      +3
      Quote: Nemesis
      I have written many times and will write as many times as I see fit.

      I subscribe to every word.
    5. Alex_59
      Alex_59 14 November 2017 10: 06 New
      +6
      Quote: Nemesis
      I am a free person, I go where I want and when I want and do not intend to limit my freedom ...

      With this approach, the gun is definitely contraindicated. 100%.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 14 November 2017 10: 09 New
        12
        I’ve had a gun for 15 years and everything is in order ... If you want to lock yourself in an apartment, like in a prison cell, like a criminal and instead of a criminal, this is your personal business. I live differently ... and I do not want to live according to your rules and desires. I have every right to do so. Walking along the street, even at 3 a.m., the law in the Russian Federation does not prohibit ... I generally like to walk but the night promenade and I do not like when street muggers bother me ...
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 14 November 2017 10: 12 New
          +5
          Quote: Nemesis
          15 years I have a gun and everything is fine ..

          Similarly))) What else do you need? You have a trunk. Everything cool. The essence of the dispute is not clear at all. Live and rejoice.
          I have it too. Also 15 years old. I am against legalization.
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 14 November 2017 10: 14 New
            +8
            And I am for legalization and for changing the law on self-defense in favor of the defending side.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 14 November 2017 10: 25 New
              +6
              Quote: Nemesis
              for amending the law on self-defense in favor of the defending party.

              Here I agree. Rather, in a different way. Our law is magnificent, God forbid, such a law to every country. But the law enforcement practice and interpretation of this law have nowhere worse. That's when these things will be fixed, and when there will be a certification system for receiving weapons, not like now, but seriously - then (maybe) I will become a supporter of legalization.
              But I do not agree with your approach as before. For 15 years I have never taken out of my holster. Because intelligence is stronger than weapons. I don’t wander anywhere at night. I am better by car or taxi. And if I’ve gotten so that I’m walking down the street at night, for example, when I see a group of tipsy youth in front of me, I quite consciously switch to the other side. In order not to give them a reason to cling to me. Because if they hook me, they may have to hurt one of them. And then I go to write pieces of paper, and it is not known how it will turn out there at all - in short, IM and ME will be worse. What for is all this to me? They’ll say drunk morons, but I’m a sober smart guy. I'd rather skip them. It’s not difficult for me, my “freedom” does not suffer from this.
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 14 November 2017 10: 37 New
                0
                Nobody wants to write papers and run around police stations and courts if he is sane ... That's why normal people don’t shoot, for no good reason ...
                Survey and now in the Russian Federation is such that God forbid ... And narcotics and a bunch of certificates, each of which is like an airplane, I don’t know what people like you are still missing ... Would you be interested in introducing narcotics before what medications does it give a positive result for ... And then it reacts to stomach pills and antibiotics ...... The law on self-defense in the Russian Federation is now bad ... The law should clearly state that the one responsible who attacked ... Then it will be a good law ...
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 14 November 2017 10: 47 New
                  11
                  Quote: Nemesis
                  The law on self-defense in the Russian Federation is now bad ...

                  The law is so-so ... but its application is yes ... request
                  Quote: Nemesis
                  The law should clearly state that the responsibility is the one who attacked

                  Nemesis, in five minutes I’m trying to spin you up so that you will attack me. Prepared for the attack, mind you yes
                  And to answer, according to your "good law", you will still ... how is it for you, nothing? wink
                  1. Nemesis
                    Nemesis 14 November 2017 10: 51 New
                    +4
                    You provoke me and many others for many days and all the time with a zero result .... I'm not one of those who snatches a gun if it was sent verbally to hell ... But you attack physically, from my side it will be self-defense ...
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 14 November 2017 10: 58 New
                      +8
                      Quote: Nemesis
                      You provoke me and many others for many days ...

                      I’m trying to guide you on the true path, oh Nemesis love
                      Quote: Nemesis
                      ... and all the time with a null result

                      Right Since you do not take up the mind, and in response to very specific clarifying questions for you (well, you are sometimes inaudible) you hiss for some reason and spit ...
                      Therefore, tell tales about your iron extract ... to a marine sergeant, for example laughing
                      1. Nemesis
                        Nemesis 14 November 2017 11: 02 New
                        +4
                        My endurance is not iron, but I will not shoot at you in response to your taunts, for example, on the street, so you will not wait ... So your self-confidence flies past again ... Who told you that your path is true? Your self-confidence is again amazing, it has no end ... You are such a narcissistic person that it’s even funny ...
    6. then
      then 14 November 2017 15: 24 New
      +1
      If you advocate for the permission of civilian weapons, then why then do you deprive a company of scumbags of having weapons too?
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 17: 13 New
        +2
        Quote: sedan
        If you advocate for the permission of civilian weapons, then why then do you deprive a company of scumbags of having weapons too?

        Because adequate and law-abiding people who have been trained to use it should have weapons.
        And now scumbags can already have weapons, and without permission, they are not law-abiding.
        1. then
          then 14 November 2017 19: 57 New
          0
          “Must be” is not yet “Actually.” There is no causal relationship.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 00: 35 New
            0
            Quote: sedan
            “Must be” is not yet “Actually.” There is no causal relationship.

            Please translate into Russian this product of schizophasia.
            1. then
              then 15 November 2017 08: 55 New
              0
              S.N. Vinogradov and A.F. Kuzmin. Logics. Textbook for high school. 1954
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 40 New
                0
                Quote: sedan
                S.N. Vinogradov and A.F. Kuzmin. Logics. Textbook for high school. 1954

                I have only one question - why do you recommend literature that you yourself did not read?
                1. then
                  then 15 November 2017 13: 59 New
                  +2
                  Why so? A small book (176 p.), Can be downloaded from the Internet, written in large print, easy to read. N. Starikov recommends reading it to everyone. I read it and also consider it useful to introduce the subject “Logic” at school. The book sets out in an accessible language the rules of evidence-based reasoning, which are based on the presence of causal relationships.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 19: 17 New
                    0
                    Quote: sedan
                    I read it

                    Then why do you give an incorrect statement?
                    Me: Because adequate and law-abiding people who have been trained to use it should have weapons.
                    And now scumbags can already have weapons, and without permission, they are not law-abiding.
                    You: “Must be” is not yet “Actually.” There is no causal relationship.
                    Although the connection is direct: - "in fact" = "And now scumbags can already have weapons, and without permission, they are not law-abiding."; “Must be” = “Because adequate and law-abiding people who have been trained to use it should have weapons.” - “Must be” in this way is a direct consequence of “really”.
                    1. then
                      then 15 November 2017 21: 36 New
                      0
                      This is the whole point. An “Investigation” must follow inevitably when a “Cause” occurs. If thugs can have weapons, it does not inevitably follow from this that law-abiding citizens must have weapons (we will then arm the entire population). There are other solutions. For example, transplant all the scumbags illegally owning weapons (even better than all the scumbags). Here it should be noted that another important condition for a causal relationship is fulfilled, it must be objective, that is, not dependent on our desire (consciousness).
                      1. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 22: 11 New
                        +1
                        Quote: sedan
                        This is the whole point. An “Investigation” must follow inevitably when a “Cause” occurs.

                        So what's the problem? Bad people can to get a gun because they don’t comply with the law, therefore good people should be able to (be able) to get a gun but already by law. Thus, we are considering not "to have," but to "have the opportunity." Then it all fits together.
    7. your1970
      your1970 14 November 2017 18: 19 New
      +2
      Quote: Nemesis
      But from the company of scumbags, with knives who want to rob you, rape, mock you, and then kill you, a personal gun will certainly save you ...

      -I am,categorical opponent of the cop if they allow it, I will FORCED
      1) purchase it as soon as possible
      2) apply it first under any circumstances - simply because now I KNOW what to expect from the person who asked me to smoke at night and put my hand in my pocket. Now there is a maximum there - a knife / brass knuckles / spray gun / shocker / injury, but tomorrow - a gun may well be there. And then if he gets the first - I won’t need mine anymore. So I’ll have to shoot the first OUTSIDE of circumstances ..

      ZY gentlemen, the supporters of the Constitutional Court shout together about the disabled / children / old people - who cannot protect themselves and immediately cut off their path to weapons by the requirements of five years of owning weapons, regular classes in the shooting range and other obstacles ...
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 00: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: your1970
        I, the categorical adversary of the Constitutional Court, if allowed, will be FORCED

        You with this position of a psychologist will not pass. LRO is not asleep. wink
        1. your1970
          your1970 15 November 2017 09: 05 New
          +1
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          You with this position of a psychologist will not pass. LRO is not asleep.
          -10 years of ownership of the smoothbore, 9 military service, 12 in customs ....
          everywhere psychologists worked - ALL celebrated my sustainable psyche
          psychiatrists at the annual medical examination took place regularly.
          Something like this....
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 41 New
            0
            Quote: your1970
            -10 years of ownership of the smoothbore, 9 military service, 12 in customs ....

            Yes, yes, yes, of course I believe you ...
            1. your1970
              your1970 15 November 2017 15: 02 New
              0
              "Pegasus" (Turkish), warrant officer - head of the warehouse of aviation technical equipment OBATO OVP, senior state customs inspector ...
              Or do you need a passport scan with a residence permit?
      2. Nemesis
        Nemesis 15 November 2017 02: 43 New
        +2
        Good mister, it’s just like you shouldn’t give up arms ... You yourself are not in order with the nerves and you judge others by yourself ... I now go at night with a gun and when they ask me to smoke, then from my pocket most often they get matches. And you see brass knuckles everywhere .... I need a weapon not because I see a robber and a murderer in every passer-by, but in order that one of the 1000 times when I meet him on the road thugs, weapons were with me and saved my life
  4. Settlement Oparyshev
    Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 06: 21 New
    +1
    It’s much easier to kill and cripple than to fight back and defend yourself.To protect yourself, you need decades of training and not a guarantor.A trunk will easily help to break up peacefully or fight back, if it’s a rod. Most men live with their mother-in-law or wife. Those are the Matriarchy. And with the purchase of a pistol, the social system immediately changes to the Patriarchate. The authorities will not do that. Catherine the 2nd British will not allow it.
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 14 November 2017 06: 37 New
    +2
    I’m Tashkent myself, if you take the post of perestroika times, but before that I simply didn’t need personal weapons, I have never needed any weapons except my fists in my life. Often from the second and third shifts I stomped through the mahalla, cemetery, even the cops they didn’t touch, such an aura. But I kept a bunch of keys in my fist, just in case. In Uzbekistan, the laws on weapons are very strict, almost only hunters have a registered one, but say about a personal revolver, don’t even dream about it. in 2000 after leaving school he left for Barnaul, entered the Polytech from the first call. So once a week, or even two, he used traumas from hooligans.
    1. Cxnumx
      Cxnumx 14 November 2017 06: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: andrewkor
      So once a week, or even two, he used traumas from hooligans.

      but citizens want "non-traumatic." to hop and into the coffin. these are in the coffin (if you're lucky - no), and they are behind bars - this is unique.
      1. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 16: 50 New
        +1
        Are you sorry for the gopot? They are not reeducable and for us they are better dead. And in prison, this is the grandmother said in two, I still have to catch and prove it.
        1. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 15 November 2017 06: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: pp to Oparyshev
          Are you sorry for the gopot? They are not reeducable and for us they are better dead. And in prison, this is the grandmother said in two, I still have to catch and prove it.

          1) and for some reason there will be no guns at the gopota?)) A gopota, it does not always wind up a term so as not to be able to buy weapons.
          2) find by firearm, by legal shooting, difficult but possible. it is a matter of time and accounting. so that catch and prove it’s much easier here.
        2. ty60
          ty60 16 November 2017 22: 03 New
          0
          There is such a stupid aunt-statistics. They will kill a couple of people in the city during an attack -
  6. igordok
    igordok 14 November 2017 07: 09 New
    +2
    In the US, the number of deaths from the use of weapons exceeded the number of deaths from war.
    1,53 Million - The number of deaths from weapon incidents over 50 in recent years
    1,2 Million - The number of Americans killed in wars in US history.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 10: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: igordok
      In the US, the number of deaths from the use of weapons exceeded the number of deaths from war.

      And how many people in the car were beaten ... Let's ban personal cars ... what
      1. igordok
        igordok 14 November 2017 11: 45 New
        +3
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        And how many people in the car were beaten ... Let's ban personal cars ...

        Cars are created to move people or goods. A short barrel is created only for killing people. Even for hunting, it is unacceptable.
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 12: 26 New
          +5
          Quote: igordok
          Cars are created to move people or goods. A short barrel is created only for killing people.

          Yes, you? But this "created to move people and goods" kills people more than all weapons taken together. So that’s it, don’t turn your back, now it’s necessary to ban personal vehicles - only in special organizations under the most severe control, with monthly cross-checks and transfers to the right to drive the vehicle.
          1. igordok
            igordok 14 November 2017 13: 49 New
            +1
            Strange logic. Death on a car is a side effect. Death is present in all spheres of human activity. Even the birth of a person is often fatal, not only for the child, but also for the woman in childbirth. Then according to your logic, it is necessary to prohibit giving birth.
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 14: 33 New
              +4
              Quote: igordok
              Strange logic. Death on a car is a side effect.

              This is your strange logic, or rather, its absence. Auto by law is a source of increased danger, and its “side effect” is known in advance, but for some reason no one is in a hurry to prohibit private ownership of it and prohibit their civil circulation.
              But the weapon of self-defense (and this is the first and most important purpose of CSR) with us is only possible for law enforcement agencies, deputies and governors ...
              So the logic is simple - and even these are sources of increased danger, then private ownership and any turnover of a car should be prohibited and left only at special transport enterprises, deputies and governors.
              Something like this...
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 16 November 2017 22: 23 New
                +8
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Auto by law is a source of increased danger, and its “side effect” is known in advance

                We draw attention to the fact that this "effect" is the same side.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                but for some reason no one is in a hurry to ban private ownership of him

                Therefore, it is not “in a hurry” because the benefits (of cars) are incomparably greater than the harm.
                The car does not have anything to do with your favorite short-barreled man in your pocket (you just went on this topic with saliva).
                Also, like electricity, for example ... if you suddenly decide to put your fingers in the socket, then ... no, you try ... maybe you’ll stop driving the blizzard, at least for a while laughing
  7. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 14 November 2017 07: 38 New
    +4
    For almost ten years now I have been writing and publishing materials about civil armed self-defense

    Write another ten years and get tired. Judging by your assertiveness, you are fixated on this issue and, moreover, seriously. From this follows a simple conclusion: you personally should not give up arms.
  8. atesterev
    atesterev 14 November 2017 08: 21 New
    +4
    Explain to me, the fool, what prevents some kind of bat from posting this officially dismissed, stupidly, to clean it and pick up the trunk? He will not be on the street all the time with the barrel in his hand, cocked shutter, cartridge in the chamber and removed from the fuse?
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 14 November 2017 08: 43 New
      +5
      Explain to me, the fool, what prevents some kind of bat from posting this officially dismissed, stupidly, to clean it and pick up the trunk?


      You know, I also think so when I see some solitary representative of the government who is openly wearing a weapon in a holster ...

      after all, cracking him in the back of the head and pulling out a weapon is a matter of a few seconds ... as a law-abiding citizen, I certainly will never go for it ... but when you put yourself in the place of crime, the temptation to take possession of weapons that are openly shown is always there ... such cases with police sometimes occur ...

      therefore, I would recommend that the gentlemen of the police do not demonstrate their power by displaying weapons on public display.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atesterev
        atesterev 14 November 2017 08: 55 New
        +2
        I probably didn’t even mean that. Just, let’s say, a man honestly bought a firearm, put it in a holster of hidden wear, pulled on his jacket ... He will bring him to a dead state for 10-15 seconds!
        And then, in addition to the standard treatment, he will have to long and tediously report for the loss of the trunk and bear the appropriate punishment.
        And the ladies are even worse, while she will pull out her device from the reticule ... Here, in general, it will be possible to arrange a buffet table!
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 09: 59 New
          +5
          Quote: atesterev
          I probably didn’t even mean that. Just, let’s say, a man honestly bought a firearm, put it in a holster of hidden wear, pulled on his jacket ... He will bring him to a dead state for 10-15 seconds!


          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 14 November 2017 10: 26 New
            +3
            I carry a gun in a regular shoulder holster. Provides quick pistol removal for self defense and hidden weapon carrying
          2. MOSKVITYANIN
            MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 01: 19 New
            0
            Rakti-kali seconds 10-15 will lead to a slaughter state

            "enemy" product is better ....
            1. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 01: 47 New
              0
              Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
              "enemy" product is better ....

              In the summer, yes. A bag is more convenient in winter.
              1. your1970
                your1970 15 November 2017 19: 26 New
                0
                this bag is torn off the shoulder ...
    2. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 10: 11 New
      +5
      Quote: atesterev
      Explain to me, the fool, what prevents some kind of bat from posting this officially dismissed, stupidly, to clean it and pick up the trunk?

      Easy. Fear while dying. Finally. Irrevocably.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 14 November 2017 10: 16 New
        11
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        Easy. Fear while dying. Finally. Irrevocably

        Bond. Jame Bond. Steepness immeasurable laughing
        Sun, a bit is not a bit, and nothing will help you against sharpening the liver. Exactly yes
        And with the trunk on the street - you are welcome booty. Vku-uuusnaya such, yum wassat
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 12: 30 New
          +3
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Bond. Jame Bond. Steepness immeasurable

          Nice to meet you Jam.
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Sun, a bit is not a bit, and nothing will help you against sharpening the liver. Exactly

          And you? Do you always substitute your liver so carelessly for sharpening?
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          And with the trunk on the street - you are welcome booty. Vku-uuusnaya such, yum

          And what about the trunk, which necessarily includes a neon sign above the owner’s head: “I HAVE A PESTLE! FLOW GUYS!”?
      2. rotmistr60
        rotmistr60 14 November 2017 11: 03 New
        +4
        Easy. Fear of dying

        You then write on your forehead: "Armed and very dangerous!"
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 12: 32 New
          +5
          Quote: rotmistr60
          You then write on your forehead: "Armed and very dangerous!"

          What for? Or were you just not smart enough to write something essentially?
    3. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 16: 53 New
      +1
      What are you like children. Those who are open-worn will quickly translate. They will remain similar to the pros.
  9. Gardamir
    Gardamir 14 November 2017 08: 46 New
    +4
    business is nothing personal. If you push the idea of ​​carrying weapons, grandmas flow like a river into the pockets of arms dealers.
    Yes, criminals are not supermen. Only the criminal knows when he is committing a crime, and an ordinary citizen will not even have time to get the trunk.
    And then the author himself wrote on emotions. So all the same, why do people need weapons? And if there is a weapon, why do we need policemen?
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 10: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Gardamir
      And then the author himself wrote on emotions. So all the same, why do people need weapons? And if there is a weapon, why do we need policemen?

      In the United States, there is a CSR in civilian traffic, but no one dismissed the police there, so why is it needed?
  10. tasha
    tasha 14 November 2017 08: 46 New
    0
    Very smelly article. Already from the first paragraphs, kalometa began in the direction of opponents of the legalization of short-barreled weapons. So you can’t fight for the resolution of weapons ...
    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 17: 50 New
      +4
      This is mutual. Among the opponents of the legalization of the short-barrels, the main argument is also basically the same - “everything in Russia is deb. Yes, they also like to mention the "free distribution of weapons." What else can you talk about with similar people - only that they value everyone around them on their own!
      1. tasha
        tasha 15 November 2017 04: 32 New
        +1
        The principle of "fool himself .. k" - do you know such a ... mirror. Do not protect the author. The article is disgusting. I repeat once again, just in case: So it is impossible to fight for the resolution of weapons ...

        This is mutual .... What else can you talk about with similar people - only that they value everyone around them on their own!


        As a result, such behavior on both sides shows the level of rationality and respect in society .. [Cry from the audience: And they also want to entrust weapons to these people! wink ]

        The real arguments and arguments are simply lost in a stream of mutual insults.
  11. free
    free 14 November 2017 09: 01 New
    +5
    The question is slippery, to be honest. On the one hand, the trunk is needed at our level of crime and the connivance of the state, citizens are forced to defend themselves. But on the other hand, the same state (which does not give a damn) does not want to change laws that actually prevent citizens from defending. Hence the question why ? Who is trying to keep citizens in a position of cancer?[b] You need to start with changing the law, as soon as the law is changed, citizens have the opportunity and the right to defend themselves, I think this is the main thing! And only by changing the law you need to raise the issue of the availability of weapons again. Regarding the organization "right to weapons", I went to your website and did not understand the meaning of the existence of this organization. Collect money from people to give them badges for lapels and plastic cards of members club !? as they say "dununah" (I apologize for the expression). Or are you either trying to change street pickets (small in addition)? Where is your work serious, even slightly noticeable? Why aren’t you trying to change the law on self-defense for a start? not against the barrel at this stage, I am for changing the law on self-defense!
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 10: 09 New
      +4
      Quote: free
      You need to start with changing the law, as soon as the law is changed, citizens have the opportunity and the right to defend themselves, I think this is the main thing!

      Yes, everything is fine with the law -
      Art. 37 CC RF
      1. It is not a crime to harm an infringing person in a state of necessary defense, that is, in the protection of the individual and the rights of the defending or other persons protected by law, the interests of society or the state from socially dangerous assault, if this encroachment was associated with violence dangerous to the life of the defending or other person , or with an immediate threat of such violence.
      The problem is with judges who in 90% of cases are former employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or the prosecutor's office and have professional deformation (all citizens are considered criminals a priori). Now there are fewer acquittals in courts than in 1937.
      1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
        Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 17: 53 New
        +1
        I don’t quite agree with you - unfortunately the judges in our country are a kind of closed caste that receives very good money by the standards of Russia and which are quite far from the realities of life.
        1. MOSKVITYANIN
          MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 01: 23 New
          0
          Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          unfortunately, the judges we have is a kind of closed caste that receives very good money by the standards of Russia and which are quite far from the realities of life.

          For more details, which judges and in comparison with whom get good money? Arbitration courts, courts of general jurisdiction (federal, global, arbitration) ....
          1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
            Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 15 November 2017 01: 38 New
            +2
            In any case, the salary of a judge of any level is much higher than the salary of an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or a military man. I'm not talking about pensions. They, to death, receive not a pension, but a “monetary maintenance” equal to a salary. And no 54% or how much they give to our brother now does not apply to them. And for the province they are generally rich.
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 07: 43 New
              +1
              Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
              In any case, the salary of a judge of any level is much higher than the salary of an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or a military serviceman. I'm not talking about pensions. They, to death, receive not a pension, but a “monetary maintenance” equal to a salary.

              It depends on which military class everything depends on the position, rank and length of service, so do not talk nonsense ....
              In addition, they recently added 5 years to the minimum judicial experience .... to get a normal pension ...
              And you will not receive a pension until death or until a certain age? The name is determined by the Federal Law "On the Status of Judges" .....
              And for the province they are generally rich.

              For the province, many rich people, before you become a judge, you will first have to work as secretary and assistant judge and not one year, but for some not five ... for a cheap wage, if you are far from the judicial system of world and district courts, then don’t talk about what you don’t know ....
              1. your1970
                your1970 15 November 2017 19: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
                In any case, the salary of a judge of any level is much higher than the salary of an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or a military man. I'm not talking about pensions. They, to death, receive not a pension, but a “monetary maintenance” equal to a salary. And no 54% or how much they give to our brother now does not apply to them. And for the province they are generally rich.
                - and for the provinces and border guards, those who retired at 42-45 and receive from 13 to 000 pensions (compared to 15 to 000 ordinary pence) are also not hollow. And the police with their 7 s / n are also not holodrans

                A justice of the peace with quite a decent length of service at the age of 17 receives 62. Is it a lot for a person who puts people daily for up to 000 years (their articles)? With his responsibility ??

                The first available jobs with comparable s / n (and less responsibility):
                "Deputy Director for Procurement at GK Ruble Boom s / n 300 000 R"
                "Electrician to the company CD LLC" NVEM "60 000-90 000 R"
                "Director of the retail network in the company LLC Khlebnitsa 100 000 R"
                "Grinder (CNC toolmaker) to the company LLC Human Resources 55 000-66 000 R"
                "Picker (shift, Voronezh) to the company Stakhanov, LLC 72 000- 75 000 R "
                "The chief technologist in the company Svezheprodukt 60 000 R"
                "The picker of household appliances in the company Staffplus, LLC 60 000P"
            2. ty60
              ty60 16 November 2017 22: 14 New
              +1
              and the traffic police for them no one, as I want, and I’m going to go. The most equal to the deputies
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 19: 42 New
            +1
            Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
            For more details, which judges and in comparison with whom get good money? Arbitration courts, courts of general jurisdiction (federal, global, arbitration) ....

            Beginning justices of the peace in the regions receive 50–80 thousand rubles a month. A federal judge receives 150–170 thousand rubles a month without bonuses or allowances.
            For comparison, in my city - a worker at the factory (well, not quite a worker, the foreman of the X-ray brigade of the quality control section), working in two shifts (12-hour shifts), mostly at night, with one day off in two weeks, set a record last month salary - as much as 32,5 thousand clean on hand. The girls in Pyaterochka after paying fines for "shrinkage, utruska and theft of goods" get in their hands from 8 to 12 thousand, when working in two shifts of 10 hours per shift.
            1. MOSKVITYANIN
              MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 21: 41 New
              +1
              Rakti-kali The girls in Pyaterochka after paying fines for “shrinkage, utrushka and theft of goods” receive in their hands from 8 to 12 thousand, when working in two shifts of 10 hours per shift.

              Let the girls go to court to work as secretaries for 6, etc., take the 5-7 business home for years to finish writing the s / z protocols to the detriment of their personal lives, etc., and then maybe they will have a chance to hand over to the judge if will not mind the chairman of the court ....
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 22: 25 New
                0
                Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                Let the girls go to court to work as secretaries for 6 TR,

                Ghm ... what year have you remembered now! ?? 6 kilo rubles from the court clerk could be a year like that in 2003.
                1. MOSKVITYANIN
                  MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 23: 42 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                  Let the girls go to court to work as secretaries for 6 TR,

                  Ghm ... what year have you remembered now! ?? 6 kilo rubles from the court clerk could be a year like that in 2003.

                  Vacancy No. 29063409
                  Court clerk
                  Koptevsky District Court of Moscow Moscow
                  from 10 000 to 12 000 rub., no work experience required, higher education

                  https://www.superjob.ru/vakansii/sekretar-sudebno
                  go-zasedaniya-29063409-166090.html? utm_source = rab
                  ota.yandex.ru & utm_medium = referral & utm_cam
                  paign = agreg-vakansii & _openstat = rabota.yandex.
                  ru;bfa6e130-51a8-421b-9eb8-dea8ad97ad1c;172037732
                  8505602048; cpc
                  For 5 years, the girls from Pyaterochka can actually (if not stupidly complete) grow up to the deputy store manager, and if they came to the store with V / O they can become curators of several stores in a certain area of ​​the city, if it is a metropolis ....
                  He himself would have made a career in trade if he had not gone on to a specialty after a university ....
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 11: 53 New
                    0
                    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
                    Girls from Pyaterochka for 5 years can really

                    Can not. No one has been holding them for more than a year.
                    And yet, the girls from Pyaterochka never dreamed of this -
                    the acquisition of seniority in the legal specialty and the seniority of the state civil service of the city of Moscow;
                    gaining experience in all areas of procedural and substantive law, an excellent school for training in the positions of judges, lawyers, prosecutor and investigative workers;
                    advanced training at the Russian Academy of Justice under the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation;
                    work in the judicial section closest to the place of residence or study;
                    full use of the right to additional (educational) leave with the preservation of average earnings;
                    the provision of annual basic paid leave of 30 calendar days, as well as additional paid leave for length of service at the rate of 1 calendar day for each year of civil service;
                    free or preferential sanatorium-resort voucher provided for annual paid leave, and appropriate reimbursement for travel to the place of rest and back, or compensation for unused sanatorium-resort voucher (in the amount of 70 000 rubles);
                    additional bonus to the main cash content based on the results of work;
                    civil servant health insurance;
                    medical care for a civil servant (carried out in
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 16 November 2017 19: 41 New
                      +1
                      never thought - why the vacancies of secretaries / assistant judges hang in all regions with such awesome tempting benefits ??? Why the vacancies of magistrates in all large cities are not closed for several years ??

                      ZY Colleague since 2011 (6 years old) has been working as a chef in Magnit - 2 people have been working for her for 9 (!!!) years
            2. your1970
              your1970 16 November 2017 06: 47 New
              +1
              federal judge in the regions receives about 80 000-90 000, for a year everything comes out together 1100 000-1 200 00-only already and the responsibility is much higher
              assistant 17, secretary 000
              we have so at least
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 17 November 2017 08: 15 New
                +1
                maybe ... but here I am personally acquainted with one such judge. A two-story house in the city. With a kindergarten, a waterfall, a bathhouse and a swimming pool. The total cost with decoration and furnishings is 2 for lambs. All this in two years. and did. the range rover is new. and now the hotel is building a 60-story building for the championship. And there’s a land there from 3 per one hundred square meters. And you say lam 500 a year. And this is a humble judge. Those who are involved in land affairs live much better. . so you operate with numbers and from people operate with facts.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 17 November 2017 14: 18 New
                  0
                  I am a former warrant officer, a warehouse manager. Judging by "people operate on facts," I had to steal cars from my warehouse with wheelbarrows.
                  But here WHY SOMETHING I didn’t steal ...
                  I personally know several judges - very decent and decent people ...
                  The fact that there are lovers of loot cut down is not a discovery, they are everywhere.
                  Even in Soviet times, as Bobkov (KGB) said, they began to shake traffic cops only where people began to complain about the lack of edges of gayts ..
                  1. long in stock.
                    long in stock. 17 November 2017 17: 51 New
                    0
                    I’m happy for you. I also didn’t steal and do not steal. But we don’t live like that .. but his son has grown up. He also studies law. And you can even appeal to judges. They don’t obey anyone. Remind me of hakhalev? everything got away with it, she’s still a judge .. and ask the decent and decent, how they tolerate this.
  12. creak
    creak 14 November 2017 09: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: K0
    Quote: ranger
    It’s not a weapon that kills, but a man - how can you not recall Professor Preobrazhensky and the devastation in his head ...

    fine. Are you suggesting giving everyone more weapons to make killing more effective?
    Quote: ranger
    No, it is possible in our opinion - 77 corpses in Irkutsk from eating hawthorn - without any personal weapons and loonies ....

    and what side does this apply to weapons? think fake (in the same way), for example, whiskey would give a different result? and how would the presence of a firearm help in this case?)

    You really don’t understand or pretend to be? The point is that it is necessary to give an ordinary citizen the opportunity to protect themselves and their loved ones without risking being imprisoned.
    To begin with, to revise the relevant legislative framework - if a person can defend himself in every possible way, then, look and a gun is not needed - there will be enough improvised means ....
  13. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 14 November 2017 10: 30 New
    +6
    So you can’t get over our current remaining opponents with logic and facts, they have no convictions against civilian weapons, they have a feeling!

    From what. For a significant part of hoplophobes, immigrants from the "power" organs or close to them with regard to equal access of citizens to weapons of self-defense, they don’t have feelings and convictions, they have INTEREST
    Because for them weapons are PRIVILEGEwhich they will fiercely defend. In addition, it is also a good BUSINESS, because it’s not a secret to anyone that premium weapons are sold and bought (for big money).
  14. q75agent
    q75agent 14 November 2017 10: 36 New
    +6
    Quote: Nemesis
    I have written many times and will write as many times as I see fit. I’m an adult, I’m a little less than 40 years old. I have been in possession of weapons for more than 15 years ... I am a supporter of civilian weapons in Russia ... Yes, a personal pistol will not save you from a professional hit man, they even urinate state presidents ... However, most of us are not the people to be killed, like Kennedy, from a sniper rifle ... But from the company of scumbags, with knives who want to rob, rape, mock you, and then kill you, a personal gun will save you certainly ... And I don’t need to write that you can’t walk alone oh, late at night, God knows where ... I am a free person, I go where I want and when I want and do not intend to restrict my freedom ... This is a criminal should be in prison, and not a law-abiding person to close himself in his apartment, as in a prison to the cell ... I don’t need to write that you run fast ... I often go late, in the company of ladies, but I can’t run away with heels and no fists, against a flock of thugs, with knives, they will not help you, but a gun will save you for sure ...

    16 people believe that you are right, that’s the answer to those who ache, that it will be worse, but hope for the police .... I’m in no way going to discuss their work, only I know for sure that in my small town with a population of 130 thousand a night comes one crew of the PLR, a couple of crews of the Russian Guard and traffic police - these are definitely not "fighters" with street crime wink , so it turns out that the usual law-abiding Mr. remains practically without help and should hope for himself
  15. CONTROL
    CONTROL 14 November 2017 10: 50 New
    +6
    Yes, a long discussion!
    -------------------------------------
    Opponents and their arguments:
    - Here I am, a cool, experienced, trained ... I’ve been carrying a trunk with me for 20 years, I have been putting it under my pillow - I’m pushing my wife away for him, hateful ... And I’m shooting - from 100 m I shoot an egg mosquito ...
    - Give our drunks (wait a minute. All the people ... and I, including, in principle non-drinker ...) trunks, they are all - but not the same as themselves! - shoot around!
    - Need supervision and control over the turnover of trunks, checks and more! And I don’t have a shtob (us, you, them ...)! the barrel is disassembled in a pocket, packed in a safe, discharged, each cartridge is numbered, the magazine / drum is empty, lubricate the weapon before assembly, check with a control shot ... etc. etc! To the point of absurdity ...
    ------------------------------------
    - Here I am - not cool and not experienced ... Why does the whole "cool guy" consider - a priori "themselves smarter, stronger and better / cooler than me? Well, at least younger - excusable .. but I'm still 30 years old in the gym I’m “stewing” ... at 62! And learning the rules of handling weapons is not a problem - from scratch ... (well, let's not remember about Chechnya and Moldova, I wasn’t there - “according to the documents” ... and about the army, where it was necessary to "destroy the ammunition with the expired term under the" demobilization "..." - then the commandants did not sell them to the bandits, the USSR is all the same!)
    - The criminal who conceived and plans the crime does not stop the imaginary inaccessibility of weapons - everything is available in the criminal version! Even a tank or a helicopter ...
    Strong doubts about the "American statistics" ... it seems that it is greatly exaggerated, or the reasons for the "American shooting in the leg" are still different (in neighboring Canada there are an order of magnitude more weapons - a forest country! - and visiting Americans shoot at passers-by .. .).
    I watched “Chance” recently, so there an old policeman from a big city (Los Angeles) says: “Do you know how many times I got official weapons for my service? Seven times! And I shot from him - once ... and never once didn't kill ... "
    But the official statistics about the "quickness" of the police are almost the same everywhere - the records here are within 20-60 minutes, the corpses have cooled down ...
    So - I don’t think that having received an officially registered trunk (with appropriate state control), the neighbor drunk and the drug addict (who does not get it a priori ...) immediately rushes to kill me and my family for pacifying him not too polite (okay - rude, why hide ...) repeatedly ... and I will do it in the future - without the use of "civilian weapons" ... And even without it - with an irresponsible person, I always had to run into a knife or an ax really (for me, even with a saber ... it was ...)
    - and "in custody..." (joke! ha ha ...) - revision of the law! Here's what you need first!
    And then - despite the fact that we are now "acting" on the so-called. "self-defense" is simply not even legislation, but connivance at the rampant crime; and clever criminals have been using this for a long time: - everyone knows a chip with a barrel in his pocket and an explanatory note - "I found it in a ditch a while ago, I decided to turn it over to the authorities, I carry it now - I’m in a hurry, pants are sail ..."
    How many people know the tax benefits that we citizens have in connection with this and that? And they are full! but for some reason few people use them - because the receipt of these benefits is compulsory this the amount of papers and certificates ... you will spend more on gas than you get the benefit ... this is a whole circus attraction from the series "if I had a horse ..."!
    ------------------------------------------
    So - everyone has their own opinion ... and the free criminal circulation of both firearms and any other weapon (and everything that can be considered as such - up to "stupid heavy objects ...") has us all! Feet in the company of 5-6 guys "trample" can be any Bruce Lee ...
    1. MOSKVITYANIN
      MOSKVITYANIN 15 November 2017 01: 35 New
      +1
      CONTROL everyone knows a chip with a barrel in his pocket and an explanatory note - “I found it in a ditch the other day, I decided to hand it over to the authorities, I carry it in a hurry, my sail pants ...”

      old bike for d ...., well, you understand .... traces of gunpowder on his hands and clothes were also found in the ditch and a bruise on his forearm ...?
      The rest I agree ....
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL 15 November 2017 09: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
        CONTROL everyone knows a chip with a barrel in his pocket and an explanatory note - “I found it in a ditch the other day, I decided to hand it over to the authorities, I carry it in a hurry, my sail pants ...”

        old bike for d ...., well, you understand .... traces of gunpowder on his hands and clothes were also found in the ditch and a bruise on his forearm ...?

        traces of gunpowder and bruises - from "indirect evidence"! I was with a neighbor in the shooting range - I gave a shot ... I hit it specifically like that - with a "forearm" ... it’s not written on the bruise, from which I got it, but the neighbor will willingly testify "in favor" ...
        "Cool excuses" in this case - just one and only - legal possession of registered weapons!
  16. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint 14 November 2017 10: 51 New
    +2
    how tired I am of this already ... the same thing over the years ... possession of weapons and the ability to use them does not mean the possibility of firing to kill. police officers and many military personnel have this barrier. what to say about ordinary people. and the bravado that I’ll kill my family causes respect. but these are just words if you do not twist.
    1. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 16: 56 New
      0
      I bought the trunk, you are no longer a simple person and hosh no hosh you need to move your minds, or you drop out.
      1. cariperpaint
        cariperpaint 14 November 2017 18: 37 New
        +1
        excuse me, but this is stupid. think before and not after. the ability to protect your loved ones is not the ability to shoot. these are your personal opportunities. from financial to be able to provide it to the physical. this is a set of measures and the presence of weapons is a tenth of them. and if someone decided that selling short-barrels to everyone could change something, either stupid or lost.
        1. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 20: 52 New
          +2
          You, by your natural stupidity, did not understand the essence of the post. And the point is that if you took the barrel, you became no longer a boob, but a responsible person. tough self-discipline.
          1. cariperpaint
            cariperpaint 15 November 2017 15: 16 New
            0
            by my natural stupidity, I know for sure that by giving something to people like you, I begin to fear for my children.
            1. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 16: 57 New
              0
              This is understandable, you do not own adequacy. With some verbiage they got into my commentary without understanding it and bubble on yet.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  17. CONTROL
    CONTROL 14 November 2017 11: 04 New
    +4
    There is another aspect of the “problem”:
    It doesn’t matter that you are accidentally hurt.
    It doesn’t matter that you are not a bully at all.
    And the important thing is that there are still duels in the world,
    On which this fragile world rests.
    It doesn’t matter that you are not ultimately killed.
    It doesn’t matter that your anger is wasted.
    And the important thing is that there are still offenses in the world,
    Forgive which the offender can not.
    It doesn’t matter that you are troubled by a stupid pose.
    It doesn’t matter that you shoot is not an expert.
    And the important thing is that there are still questions in the world,
    Deciding which is only possible.

    It doesn’t matter that there is no reason for a duel.
    It doesn’t matter that the quarrel is over the ladies.
    And the important thing is that there are still men in the world,
    Who are ashamed to lug about the courts.

    Leonid Filatov
    1. your1970
      your1970 15 November 2017 10: 52 New
      0
      A duel is certainly great ...
      Only everyone forgets that in Tsarist Russia, duels were PROHIBITED due to fear of criminal punishment, officers were demoted to rank and file, and for war and / or the Caucasus ...
      And it was not just that, from the bulldozer ......
  18. vnord
    vnord 14 November 2017 11: 20 New
    +3
    Quote: Per se.
    "I am a free man, I go where I want and when I want and I do not intend to limit my freedom ...". If you look for adventures on your ass, you will certainly find them, especially with too healthy egoism.

    Sorry, but why are you twisting everything. There was a case in Samara, the summer is about 15 hours, almost the center of the city, the two of us go 3 to the meeting with hammers in our hands, purposeful to us. We realized they would wet us, at the last moment, one says (about us) it seems they are not they, they stop abruptly and leave. There would be a fight and what we did without a black belt against the same hammers ...
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 14 November 2017 12: 20 New
      +1
      Well then. According to the law (which fierce opponents of weapons so much like to rely on for others) it is necessary to wait until you are hit on the head with a hammer, and only then you can use the black belt. Of course, it’s far from the fact that if you remain alive or even healthy, you will be able to prove in court that it was not you who attacked an exceptionally peaceful group of young people.
      In any, even in the most successful outcome, you will spend a lot of time, money, and at least mental health on resolving the consequences of this situation in the organs and courts.
    2. Per se.
      Per se. 14 November 2017 13: 30 New
      +3
      And you, Valery, excuse me, but these “with hammers” could come up behind you and without any hesitation “spud” you with a friend. Moreover, you could hang around your neck and the Kalash and hang a pistol on each side. If you want to rob or kill, the attack will always be sudden, especially if the aim of the attack is to take possession of your own weapon. In addition, a gun can always be found on your pistol, and on you and a friend there is a gang, including a well-trained and armed one. Understand that even the case that you voiced is not indicative. First, they left, no one died. Secondly, they could not only have hammers in their hands. So you can combine endlessly, but the essence is different, you need a safe society, and it is created not by the presence of weapons, but by well-being, social justice, culture. If we talk about self-defense, I am its supporter, but with responsibility for my actions, allowing my destruction of the enemy, only as an accident, as a forced action in protecting my life, the lives of my loved ones or other people. For this, there must be a clear and unambiguous interpretation of the law in self-defense, and no matter what, I will kill the enemy during the defense, with a fist, a hammer or a firearm. In any case, to the delight of the “sufferers” on a short-haul, one should not possess a pistol, become the exclusive right to kill, according to a personal understanding of security. There is a Law, and not "cowboys" and "bulls" should replace law enforcement agencies, the court and the investigation, for killed and maimed, it is necessary to answer. About this speech.
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 14: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: Per se.
        If you want to rob or kill, the attack will always be sudden

        And in this case, you just need to push the rolls together and reconcile, as usual, and you do, right?
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 14 November 2017 16: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          you just need to push the bread and put up with the usual way you do, right?
          Do not be rude, "the mother goddess, a symbol of destruction." Here are such "Nemesis" and "Rakti-Kali", the most militant fighters for mob justice. Did you even serve in the army, or read, and you didn’t like it, did you kill someone yourself in battle? You will listen, so you will not exactly push apart the “bread” type, at least if you give a big and beautiful gun, and the enemy has a donut hole. There is no desire to continue to communicate with you, if you want to bring peace and order, go serve in the police, or in the army, in a hot spot, let off steam. I hope, when not in a dry dash, but in a shit and blood you shoot, maybe you will perceive something differently. Hare Krishna.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 17: 25 New
            +3
            Quote: Per se.
            Do not be rude

            What measure you measure, that will measure you.
            Quote: Per se.
            Here are the "Nemesis" and "Rakti-Kali", the most militant fighters for lynching.

            Again, you confuse self-defense with lynching. And who gave the right to the ghouls who attacked me to “condemn” me to mutilation or death? You stubbornly do not hear in the word "self-defense" the second root - "protection". Do you understand? PROTECTION not assault and lynching.
            Quote: Per se.
            Did you serve in the army, or read, and you didn’t like it, did you kill anyone in battle?

            You ask such questions ... I want to take and leave, waving at you.
            Quote: Per se.
            Listen, you’ll surely don’t move apart like “rolls”, at least if you give a big and beautiful gun,

            I don’t even push it apart, even without a gun. If you need to be attacked, this is a much more successful survival strategy.
            But I want that not only commandos-athletes-sportsmen-dischargers-veterans-with-experience could protect themselves
            volume-killings.
            Quote: Per se.
            There is no desire to continue to communicate with you

            Mutually.
            Quote: Per se.
            if you want peace and order, go to serve in the police, or in the army, in a hot spot, let off steam. I hope that when you shoot, not in a dry shooting range, but in shit and blood, maybe you will perceive something else. Hare Krsna.

            (He spat, waved his hand, mildly cursed and walked away from you.)
    3. cariperpaint
      cariperpaint 14 November 2017 18: 43 New
      0
      Well, of course it’s easier to accumulate dough and buy a barrel than to spend the same money on classes and get this very belt) and if so, do you have a gun the same situation you see a threat and what? do a warning shot in the head?) Doesn’t it bother you that people with short barrels stupidly for the most part will not be able to assess the threat adequately?
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 00: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: cariperpaint
        Well, of course it’s easier to accumulate dough and buy a trunk than to spend the same money on classes and get this very belt)

        Oh, you say such a thing ... How nice ... But what, all citizens are required to get a belt? So tell me how to get a belt for a person with prostheses, or for a person with a spinal injury or asthma?
        I repeat once again - not all people have the physical ability to defend themselves only with the help of handicraft and kicking. The gun gives everyone a chance.
        1. cariperpaint
          cariperpaint 15 November 2017 07: 16 New
          0
          yeah. and also this chance gives me a bullet if a person thinks that my sudden movements threaten him. I said one gun is not enough. negligible.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 45 New
            0
            Quote: cariperpaint
            yeah. and also this chance gives me a bullet if a person thinks that my sudden movements threaten him

            Do not threaten a person with sudden movements and the chance to get a bullet will be minimal.
            1. cariperpaint
              cariperpaint 15 November 2017 15: 17 New
              0
              I can stumble. or out of the darkness. don't troll me
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 19: 20 New
                0
                Quote: cariperpaint
                I can stumble. or out of the darkness.

                Well, do it not abruptly. laughing
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 15 November 2017 09: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: cariperpaint
        Well, of course it’s easier to accumulate dough and buy a trunk than to spend the same money on classes and get this very belt)

        In connection with this remark, a not too significant episode from some “Indiana Jones” is recalled: - his bandits drive around the market, he rides through the shelves and arb ... running from them ... on one of the wide types of "main" streets market calls him "for a fair fight" cool man with a scimitar ... GG steamed all, glanced briefly in his direction, fired from the colt ... and ran on ...
  19. CARLSON
    CARLSON 14 November 2017 11: 27 New
    +3
    Nemesis,
    [/ quote] My excerpt is not iron [quote]


    Judging by this phrase, megalomania you also do not, because great people do not suffer from this
  20. FID
    FID 14 November 2017 11: 57 New
    +9
    I apologize! I grew up and lived in the USSR, I didn’t need this weapon .... Now, do I live among gangsters? Why do I need a weapon? Where is the state? Where is the law? If I need a weapon, I don’t need a state!
    1. igordok
      igordok 14 November 2017 13: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: SSI
      If I need a weapon, I don’t need a state!

      Thanks so much for your comment!
    2. CONTROL
      CONTROL 15 November 2017 09: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: SSI
      If I need a weapon, I don’t need a state!

      Do not make the situation absurd!
      ----------------------------------
      if I die of an illness - I don’t need medicine ... if my wife left me - I will never become a “bastard”, “live without marriages” ... if they fed me a tasty taste in a cafe - down with the catering! ...
      ...etc. etc ...
  21. Alex_59
    Alex_59 14 November 2017 12: 04 New
    +5
    And idealization pins me. )))
    Here I have a weapon for a long time, years 15. And over the years I found myself in a situation where it is possible to use it about two times. And both times there was still no use, they resolved in words. But the funny thing is not this. Once we went out with my wife to the store, next to the house. Well, you won’t go to get bread or take out the garbage every time you push the holster. Clear business went so. And then there was the only case in my life when it was necessary. Right classic - protection of family and friends. A dog rushed at us))) We prevented the dog. He closed his wife. Winter was - a dog clawed at me. Gently, did not bite through winter clothes. My wife has tears. And according to the law, he could just shoot back with full right - the dog will not declare any excess over the limits. But there was nothing. The Irony of Fate.
    What am I doing? Well, you can run around the city for 23,5 hours a day like a terminator at the ready with a shotgun on his shoulder. And tired of going into the bushes to lighten, putting a shotgun next to the ground, because two hands are needed to cope. And at this very moment, you can be sure that some stunted ukurok will come up behind you and crack a board on the back of your head. And take the wallet, watch and shotgun. And you come to your senses - with a sore head and pissed. And such as I see in life is more a rule than an exception. So it’s not a piece of iron, but a brain.
    1. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 14 November 2017 16: 58 New
      +1
      You are mistaken. The threat does not arise unexpectedly, which means that you have caught some slack somewhere.
      1. your1970
        your1970 15 November 2017 10: 54 New
        0
        Quote: pp to Oparyshev
        You are mistaken. The threat does not arise unexpectedly, which means that you have caught some slack somewhere.
        are you ready live constantly in war, in constant readiness to shoot?
        1. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 16: 58 New
          0
          No, let’s let the fuckers roll out from morning till night.
          1. your1970
            your1970 15 November 2017 19: 14 New
            0
            apparently the area you have is (with fuckin 'fuckin') -that only by short dashes, one runs-two cover up ....
            We are somehow calm, quiet ....
            1. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 19: 48 New
              +1
              You just need to be alarmed when it’s calm and quiet. When you are sitting under your native tits, the danger appears much less than you need to move to feed yourself. I’ve been examined three times by bandits on the highway, once chased. So, what kind of weapon are I? if not short, then any.
              1. your1970
                your1970 16 November 2017 11: 24 New
                +1
                Quote: pp to Oparyshev
                I was examined three times by bandits on the highway, once chased. So, what kind of weapon am I, if there is no short one, then any.
                - who doesn’t allow to carry hunting? Surfing at small distances is much more effective than a pistol ...
                1. Settlement Oparyshev
                  Settlement Oparyshev 16 November 2017 17: 55 New
                  0
                  So it was, just didn’t shoot, then I found out that the bandits cut their heads to three peasants, according to the same signs. He would flood the bandits, people would remain alive later.
                  1. ver_
                    ver_ 18 November 2017 19: 25 New
                    0
                    ... even two goats across the abyss along the log, going towards, cross, you, however, two homo sapiens, ruined the whole forum and could not find a common denominator ...
  22. Mestny
    Mestny 14 November 2017 12: 12 New
    0
    Quote: Captain45
    the driver who took this off could well get out of the car and disarm the moron with a tire, unless of course the driver is a MUZHIK, and not a miracle that feels like a cool macho who can save the world only with a gun in his hands.

    And then immediately stop by the bunk - no one personally attacked him.
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 14 November 2017 13: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Mestny
      Quote: Captain45
      the driver who took this off could well get out of the car and disarm the moron with a tire, unless of course the driver is a MUZHIK, and not a miracle that feels like a cool macho who can save the world only with a gun in his hands.

      And then immediately stop by the bunk - no one personally attacked him.

      Mm-da-ah ...
      Any citizen obliged to prevent the crime committed before his eyes - if the fact of the crime committed is beyond doubt!
      When testifying at the investigation or in court, any citizen must tell the truth! You lie - on you (to you ...) for giving false up to ...
      So - the one who filmed can already stand trial: "for inaction when committing a crime!" It’s necessary not to shoot “to a mobile phone”, but to call the police and call for help!
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 14 November 2017 14: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: CONTROL
        It’s necessary not to shoot “to a mobile phone”, but to call the police and call for help!

        Yeah, yeah ... when I was attacked last summer (four, with knives, though they got a lyule and retreated, carrying the wounded) I also called the police. They arrived in an hour and a half somewhere ... Then, according to the statement, they procrastinated for almost half a year, such as checking ... Then they refused to initiate proceedings ... Well, yes, they didn’t stab me, they didn’t find the wounded ghoul, they didn’t find the attacker ... eeee ... lost ...
        In general, our police guard us, shut our ears - we protect our sleep ...
        1. CONTROL
          CONTROL 15 November 2017 09: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          In general, our police guard us, shut our ears - we protect our sleep ...

          What are we talking about! ...
          With such a legal culture of society, "civic activity" and the work of the "law enforcement agencies" - with the "short-barrel" it is calmer, not even for itself - for its loved ones!
          ----------------------------------
          "Video operators" of such "selfies" under current law should be held accountable! Article 293 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - to review, make additions; a reference to the “obligation to help one's neighbor in protection against criminal attacks” from the moral obligation to make civil liability - if a citizen has physical and technical capabilities! Say, armed with a personal - legally registered weapon!
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. trak
    14 November 2017 13: 09 New
    +1
    Gee! I began to blame the VO website that it does not publish articles of supporters of the short-bar, but only their opponents, and it turns out that it screwed up. Well, I apologize to the editors of the site for previous statements.
  25. older
    older 14 November 2017 14: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    Again, morons hounds! Lord, do not allow the triumph of schnicks! After all, they "halve" Russia!

    Yeah, God forbid h..shnikam, existing at dusk, do not leave home! For the affairs of the police are unlawful, salaries for, amen! And for fans of martial arts, this is an aggravating circumstance when deciding on the punishment for self-defense. By the way, none of the members of the forum spoke out about the ban on the carrying of ANY firearms by police officers, there are a lot of precedents and most importantly inadequate there
  26. Forever so
    Forever so 14 November 2017 15: 24 New
    +2
    The issue of the Right to a Short Barrel for the protection of honor and dignity is directly linked to the existing government. The liberal-criminal party that came to power as a result of the bourgeois coup considers the inhabitants of Russia slaves, suckers, and other genetic sludge. For the same reason, power was fenced off from the people by the police, the Russian Guard, and other private security companies. Therefore, the RUSSIAN RIGHT to weapons today can only take.
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 14 November 2017 16: 23 New
      +3
      Quote: Forever so
      The issue of the Right to a Short Barrel for the protection of honor and dignity is directly linked to the existing government. The liberal-criminal party that came to power as a result of the bourgeois coup considers the inhabitants of Russia slaves, suckers, and other genetic sludge. For the same reason, power was fenced off from the people by the police, the Russian Guard, and other private security companies. Therefore, the RUSSIAN RIGHT to weapons today can only take.

      "My God, what a passage!" (c) how much fire, temperament, expression, feeling in the above phrase lol It seems to me that if we were talking about a home broom or a mop, then there would certainly be present — slaves, suckers, corrupt power and other set of liberal mantras. fool
  27. then
    then 14 November 2017 15: 43 New
    0
    I used to do this, hoping for logic and facts ...

    Somehow it is rather weak with logic and the facts are far from unambiguous. Based on the postulate that only one state should have the right to violence, the topic should be closed. Those who wish to shoot would recommend paying attention to sports sections. There are other legal options. He was engaged in shooting sports and saw at the same time quite a few morons who were bored of shooting at simple targets.
  28. older
    older 14 November 2017 16: 39 New
    +3
    [quote = sedan] [quote] Based on the postulate that the right to violence should have only one state, then the topic should be closed.
    I am a respectable citizen, pay taxes, do everything that a gang of aligarchs comes up with above. Question- WHY does the state not protect me? WHY in such a situation I can not protect myself and my family? Here are two questions, and you don’t need to put a lot of mind on PAG pages.
  29. cedar
    cedar 14 November 2017 16: 49 New
    +1
    Goldreer, it’s time for you to register as a foreign agent.
  30. Letnab
    Letnab 14 November 2017 16: 54 New
    +2
    The statements of the opponents of the short barrel are interesting, it seems that the owner of the barrel is going out with him open, and he even pulls a poster that he is armed .. and agrees to share it. And then it begins that on the streets we have completely organized gangs imprisoned for the disarmament of the armed, and here it begins ... and with a bat from behind, and with an awl, a spoke or knife in the kidney, liver, etc. ... And there are a bunch of passions invented. And they are frightened by imperfect legislation ... right now the horror is happening in our country.
    Or maybe everything is easier with us?
    If the bandit goes to kill, no talk will stop him. In one of the discussions of such an article, I gave an example of how a group of youth beat the family with bits, such as violators of their fun, unarmed, were punished ... But if there was a barrel at the head of the family, everything could end with one shot in the air and a bazaar on the topic ... After all, the gopniks also want to live, and preferably without gunshot injuries. And do not give an example that they say that this group could also form a trunk. In this case, both sides in any case would try to disperse peacefully.
    1. then
      then 14 November 2017 18: 49 New
      0
      And there would be a trunk at the head of the family, everything could end with one shot in the air and a bazaar on the topic ...

      Is not a fact. Especially when one "trunk" against three. Then what will have to fight for the resolution of automatic weapons? And there are grenades, machine guns, mortars. Or even immediately ride in tanks?
      1. Letnab
        Letnab 15 November 2017 04: 07 New
        0
        Yes, even one in three already makes both sides think, the more the attacking side is trying to punish the violator of their fun, the second side is already defending itself and its family, respectively, more motivated ... As for weapons of mass destruction, you distort again ...
        Quote: sedan
        And there would be a trunk at the head of the family, everything could end with one shot in the air and a bazaar on the topic ...

        Is not a fact. Especially when one "trunk" against three. Then what will have to fight for the resolution of automatic weapons? And there are grenades, machine guns, mortars. Or even immediately ride in tanks?
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 15 November 2017 09: 47 New
        +1
        Quote: sedan
        And there would be a trunk at the head of the family, everything could end with one shot in the air and a bazaar on the topic ...

        Is not a fact. Especially when one "trunk" against three.

        yes, even against five!
        Everyone has one life! with or without a barrel ...
      3. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 17: 01 New
        0
        Why don’t you like one barrel against three? Three shots, depending on who, from 0.4 sec. To 2.7 seconds. It’s quite real.
  31. Wagr2017
    Wagr2017 14 November 2017 17: 06 New
    +3
    I'm for a weapon. BUT, the "power" is afraid of the people. The police, the National Guard, and other things, were not created for the people. Do not flatter yourself if someone else thinks so. This is the "bloody gebnya", the "toothless" Soviet police - they caught and planted the thieves of killers and other trash. They could not take a single one in the cops without military service, and even more so without characterization from the duty station. Personally, I didn’t give such degenerates, stupid, and with other mental deviations. And for three years of service, the boys of the boys became MEN.
    The current contingent of illiterate downs is the best guarantee of the inviolability of power. By what holes they are being picked up, God himself does not know. Or he is silent in shame.
    You, dear coordinator, Michael Goldreer, can write for another 15 years, and even to the UN or to The Hague. Where they will read. All this is complete crap. And you can powder your brains as much as you want with your “young associates”. It probably gives you pleasure.
    Your lie is that there is no ban on WEAPONS in Russia. I’ll make a reservation right away — it will be about ordinary citizens.
    For a short barrel - yes. For smoothbore, rifled, collectible - no. Go - get a hunting ticket, take exams, and get permission to store and carry weapons. Five years, - and apply for the RISKED WEAPON. Go to the shooting range, to the shooting range, improve your skills.
    Wrong weapon? Saiga, Boar - 12th caliber! You want rubber bullets, you want lead bullets, buckshot, shot - everything your heart desires.
    Rifled? What is the problem? SVD, and not 7,62 but 9 mm, AK, RPK, SKS and even during the Second World War, if desired.
    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 18: 21 New
      +4
      No need to juggle. It's about self-defense in a city. In this case, the short barrel is most suitable. Well, if you only still change the law, as in some of the US states, where they were allowed to openly carry semi-automatic rifles on the streets. (So ​​I imagined - my wife and I went for a walk around my native city and my beloved Saiga-12K hangs on my shoulder!) The presence of rubberbands (I also have one) can lead to only one thing - if there is a danger, you need to shoot only in the head so that it is guaranteed to disable the attacker. This, as you yourself understand, is either the death of the attacker, or disability (left without an eye). Moreover, if, as some consider it possible, I will "make the legs", to establish my identity will be very problematic. If I use the LEGAL short barrel when attacking me and for self-defense, then I prefer to shoot on the limbs in order to do the least harm and immediately try to call the police and the ambulance to prove my innocence, since I know that by the bullet and the liner will immediately calculate me.
      1. Wagr2017
        Wagr2017 14 November 2017 19: 18 New
        +1
        You are from Makar with 25 meters of three shots how many knock out?
        The cops were forbidden to use weapons in crowded places - are you going to shoot in the crowd?
        Are you a master of "practical shooting"?
        Are you ready to shoot a person psychologically? Have you tried it? At least once aiming?
        I had 15 years Saiga 410, and "pump-action". I served in the Navy for 15 years. BUT! In the store I had "rubber bullets, and in the pump-room the first three.
        Defend family and friends, self-defense must be able to. And in order to be able to - it is necessary to devote time to this.
        But if I find out that my neighbor has a gun, and he will be a simple layman, I will simply take it from him and throw him out. Better to butt with bandits - than to live next to an ignorant idiot. He will want to play with drunkenness, or drunk, to everyone around him.
        I am not against the short-barrel.
        I am against civilians who do not know how to handle it.
        1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 19: 37 New
          +4
          Imagine, from PMa from 25 meters all three are not further than seven. And this is even now, after more than 10 years in retirement. (I had to somehow participate in competitions among veterans of the Ministry of Internal Affairs). Saiga, if I’m not mistaken, I’m about 17 years old, before that only TOZ-34. About where who served. 25 calendars in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, twice in hot spots. PM and PSM during service on a constant wear. So with what - with what, and with a weapon I know firsthand.
          1. Wagr2017
            Wagr2017 14 November 2017 19: 42 New
            0
            And now imagine that with weapons, with a short barrel, crowds of townsfolk are hanging around the street. I bought it, - put it in my pocket, - I WILL PROTECT MYSELF!
            It’s better to let the long Saigu wear behind him - it will be visible from afar, and you can not get close.
            Who served in the army - that one’s culture of handling weapons is driven into the subcortex. But “jackets” - God forbid!
            1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
              Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 20: 14 New
              +2
              May there not be "crowds of townsfolk" on the streets with weapons hanging around! Now the prices even for rubber boots are going wild! Alteration from PMa (and this is complete trash, if not PM-T!) Is about 20 thousand, something more decent - already under 50 thousand, or even more. With similar prices, only Muscovites can afford something worthwhile. Moreover, it is necessary to take into account the cost of passing a medical examination, drugs and training. In our city, the average salary (real, not average!) Is about 19 thousand. So count ...
              1. Wagr2017
                Wagr2017 14 November 2017 20: 26 New
                +1
                Whoo!
                So who will hang around, or rather dissect our open spaces on "heliks" and "boomers"?
                I think - you don’t even have to answer.
                And the common people will be where? In Karaganda!
                But this is not about arming the "elite" - they are good without it.
                It is about - that EVERYONE could be able to protect ....
                Again, a simple philistine in jo ...? And if what hysterical lady accepts Vasya Fufaykina - who did not marry the bandit and shoot him?
                And he’ll shoot! And the lawyers will prove that Vasya was a bandit! He drank vodka and beat his wife. And swearing obscenities.
                And where will the big short-barrel sales be? Isn't it where you were on business trips?
                Doubt?
                1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
                  Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 20: 41 New
                  +5
                  Where I was on business trips, arms and without any legalization were heaps. There for a long time and whatever documents they can do, at least award-winning ones on the machine. It’s not even about the fact that the “common people" will not be able to arm themselves. Who really needs to - he will pass all the commissions, and the training, and the money on the trunk will scrape together. This, after all, is, firstly, about the RIGHT of this very people to self-defense with the help of LEGAL weapons; secondly, the exclusion from circulation of a much more dangerous and not accountable for today through the bullet-shells of the so-called "traumatic" weapons. Significantly more dangerous because, as indicated by other comrades, people do not perceive it as a weapon capable of killing; and thirdly, the very fact that the opponent or potential victim may have real firearms will have a great preventive effect, that is, a person will think ten times if he should attack if you can get a bullet in return. And this last factor, in my opinion, is the most important.
                  1. Wagr2017
                    Wagr2017 14 November 2017 20: 59 New
                    +1
                    “But when a long series of abuses and violence, invariably subordinate to the same goal, testifies to the insidious plan to force people to come to terms with unlimited despotism, overthrowing such a government and creating new guarantees of security for the future becomes the right and duty of the people.”
                    This is the 2nd amendment of the US Constitution. And this is from a different topic.
                    And here we have - I would not even shoot a thief who crawls into my house.
                    Until it is written in the law - that private property is inviolable, that I have the right to protect my property, my life and the life of my loved ones in ANY AVAILABLE WAY - this is all boltology.
                    And they will not accept this. In our country it’s the other way around.
                    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
                      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 21: 35 New
                      +4
                      A thief and a robber are completely different things. A thief is one who steals something secretly. If someone creeps into your house in your presence, this is at least robbery - a much more serious crime, and when detaining a person who has committed a serious crime, even the police are allowed to use weapons. And if he has something with him - a cutter, a crowbar, a hammer, a kitchen knife or something like that, which can be regarded as a weapon - this is robbery - an attack with the aim of taking possession ... and use a weapon (of course after the warning, preferably loud, so that for example neighbors hear) it will be legal. Based on this, it is necessary to "dance". That is, we should not talk about protecting property, but rather about protecting life and health. (I hope you always have the above items in your home? smile )
                      1. Wagr2017
                        Wagr2017 14 November 2017 22: 22 New
                        +4
                        Dear Victor, the most important “subject” is me. I’ll even say more - I’m tired of my Saiga and the “pump”, and five years ago I handed them over for destruction. But the new has not yet acquired. And in the car I drive just a forged nail puller. He is better than the mount.
                        Over the past ten years, I have rolled tens of thousands of kilometers along the “terrain” and various impassable places. And he came to one conclusion - Moscow trash. But normal people live in Russia.
                        I have never met even a hint of rudeness, not to mention more.
                        The power scares us with rampant banditry and lawlessness. That they are the most important "bad radishes."
                        And how to defend against them?
                        Weapons, of course, are needed - to those who love and know how to handle them. But you yourself probably know - when it is needed, for some reason it is not nearby. The one who believes only in the power of weapons - in my opinion he does not believe in himself. And here, the AGS will not help.
                        And nothing will help, until the "police" return, which, in my opinion, and experience, in fact, was not against the people, but for the people. I always respected the cops. Old, Soviet.
                        There was a case in the 80s. Father - he was already retired, went to visit me to the North. And in the Vologda region, he tried to disarm a drunken convict. He, in my opinion, just got out of prison, and having gotten drunk on a wagon, he was carrying a knife.
                        He knocked out Zek, but he still punched him in the stomach. though only fat tissue was pierced. But father lost a lot of blood. True, nothing happened.
                        That's when I ran into the cops. There were normal men.
                        And now, I’m looking at the "cops", and it feels like he wants to hit me with a club on turnips with a club.
                        Are these "guarantors of peace"?
                        Security, self-defense and weapons are all different things to me.
                  2. brn521
                    brn521 15 November 2017 12: 18 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
                    about the RIGHT of this very people to self-defense with the help of LEGAL weapons

                    Injuries are legal. So then what people do not engage in self-defense through injuries? The rhetoric of the supporters of the COP should be as follows: there is injury, but it does not help. Instead, we see the whimper of babies who find themselves in a supermarket and see an expensive toy. And these "babies" write entire series of articles. In which, instead of normal analysis, only the notorious whine.
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 12: 48 New
                      0
                      Quote: brn521
                      Injuries are legal. So then what people do not engage in self-defense through injuries?

                      About rubber arrows have been written many times in this and other topics. Read.
                      1. brn521
                        brn521 15 November 2017 15: 48 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        About rubber arrows have been written many times in this and other topics. Read.

                        That's exactly what I'm doing. I drive injuries into the browser search and drive it on the topic. And above, in fact, my debriefing on this topic and on the article at the same time. Instead of a clear analysis, another article on the topic "Give the baby a rattle." Again wasted time. The author in the process simply trolls the inhabitants of VO. Directly a society of witnesses of legalization of a short-barrel some kind. Namely, that they are trying to collect believers and put pressure on emotions.
                2. Letnab
                  Letnab 15 November 2017 04: 13 New
                  0
                  Quote: Wagr2017
                  Whoo!
                  So who will hang around, or rather dissect our open spaces on "heliks" and "boomers"?
                  I think - you don’t even have to answer.
                  And the common people will be where? In Karaganda!
                  But this is not about arming the "elite" - they are good without it.
                  It is about - that EVERYONE could be able to protect ....
                  Again, a simple philistine in jo ...? And if what hysterical lady accepts Vasya Fufaykina - who did not marry the bandit and shoot him?
                  And he’ll shoot! And the lawyers will prove that Vasya was a bandit! He drank vodka and beat his wife. And swearing obscenities.
                  And where will the big short-barrel sales be? Isn't it where you were on business trips?
                  Doubt?

                  And again about mental health, how did this hysterical weapon fall into their hands? It seemed to her, it means behind bars for a cure ...
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 15 November 2017 10: 59 New
                    0
                    Can you imagine the cost of Gelika? And the cost of a mental health certificate? "Yes, she is healthy," stamp and signature ...
                    a simple layman - it really works out in that very place ....
          2. Settlement Oparyshev
            Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 17: 05 New
            0
            Question: Do you shoot at the front sight or holding the pistol sideways? Och interesting. Have you used shooting while holding the barrel horizontally.
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 01: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: Wagr2017
          You are from Makar with 25 meters of three shots how many knock out?

          There were no less than 23. But as practice shows, self-defense weapons are used in 90% of cases at a distance of less than 30 feet, that is, 9 meters.
          Quote: Wagr2017
          Are you going to shoot in the crowd?

          You decide, I "do not hang around at night" or "do not shoot in the crowd", otherwise I’m already confused? Or do we have "crowds wandering around" at night?
          Quote: Wagr2017
          Are you a master of "practical shooting"?

          Why are you interested in?
          Quote: Wagr2017
          Are you ready to shoot a person psychologically? Have you tried it? At least once aiming?

          What's the problem? When the choice is me or he usually does not experience any reflections and doubts.
          Quote: Wagr2017
          But if I find out that my neighbor has a gun, and he will be a simple layman, I will simply take it from him and throw him out.

          I don’t advise - they will shoot you. If a person owns a weapon illegally, then you need to report it to the police. If it’s legal, rejoice, maybe he can come to your aid if they attack your house.
          Quote: Wagr2017
          I am against civilians who do not know how to handle it.

          So do I. Therefore, training courses should be required. And the promotion of voluntary visits to shooting clubs should be.
  32. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 14 November 2017 18: 04 New
    +2
    I read the first two dozen comments .. The rest can be diagonally ..)
    Why not allow a short barrel?
    This has already been answered ..
    "" God made people strong and weak. Samuel Colt made them equal. "
    Py.Sy. Everyone in Russia under the wheels of a car, killing people more than 15 years of war in Afghanistan.
    1. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 17: 09 New
      0
      You made a mistake in writing a parable about Colt. In no way did you make equal. If the enemy manages to shoot you while you blink, and you need a couple of seconds to shoot. What is this equality? So, think the next time before. Express someone else's thought .
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 15 November 2017 18: 56 New
        +1
        If the enemy manages to shoot you while you blink, and you need a couple of seconds to shoot

        What makes you think that I need a couple of seconds to shoot? ..
        "Do not judge and you will not be judged" ..
        1. Settlement Oparyshev
          Settlement Oparyshev 15 November 2017 19: 53 New
          0
          Yes, I'm not talking about you. The fact that for example one needs 1 second per shot, and the other 0.2 seconds. Who will win?. Kolt somehow did not think about it. He was a little tight.
          1. Razvedka_Boem
            Razvedka_Boem 15 November 2017 20: 04 New
            +2
            Those who can take a shot in 0.2 s are unlikely to shoot at a crowd of unarmed people if they get drunk or if someone touches them verbally ..
            All frostbitten, provided that the short-barrel was freely worn, would have been eliminated already in the first couple of months .. And their number would be less than the number of cars dying under the wheels of cars in Russia every year - an average of 20.000 people die in car accidents every year ..
            And the number of deaths from medical errors, in the world, annually .. By orders of magnitude more ..
            You take an interest in statistics .. Hair stand on end ..
            Here, even the terrorists modestly smoke their nonsense aside ..
            1. Settlement Oparyshev
              Settlement Oparyshev 16 November 2017 17: 58 New
              0
              I don’t believe that a writer can be such a drag. You are clearly doing the job on this project.
              1. Razvedka_Boem
                Razvedka_Boem 17 November 2017 06: 25 New
                0
                Something I can’t believe that a writer can be such a brake

                What are you talking about? If the author of the article, this is your personal opinion.
                You are clearly doing the job on this project.

                Ha ha ..)
  33. minus
    minus 14 November 2017 18: 39 New
    0
    Of course you need to allow civilian weapons, I'm for it! Only at first it is necessary to solve a bunch of problems - an adequate law on self-defense, the problem of getting weapons into the possession of inadequacies, psychological control of owners, training in using weapons .. Yes, there are many different problems on the way ... So far there are no answers to these questions, I am against.
    PS The other day, we had a conflict in one of the bars in Minusinsk, they filled a peasant’s face, tore his clothes. He went home, washed, changed clothes ... He took a gun and went back ... Wrodeba asked who beat him, shot him in the ground, in the air ... In general, two children were left without a father .... The gun was taken away and scored. From the blows of the butt, he died ...
  34. minus
    minus 14 November 2017 18: 47 New
    0
    Oleg stood up for him with a word, not a fist. After which the aggressive company switched already to him, having hit him several times. They broke his nose and tore things, "says an eyewitness.

    After that, the man went home and washed and changed his clothes. He took his hunting rifle and returned.

    *** "Oleg went up to the entrance, where one of his killers was standing with a girl. He asked exactly who hit him. And at that moment he shot him with a shotgun on the floor. Having not heard the answer, he shot again to the side and the next 3 shots he fired into the earth. it 8 people ran into him and simply beat him. And they killed him with a butt, "an eyewitness to the incident told the denouement of the tragedy. ****
    Well, at least there was shooting on the street, and not indoors. Imagine that he would have a short barrel. And after all he would have got it all at once. And the results of the shooting in a cafe could be the most sad ....
    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 14 November 2017 19: 51 New
      +4
      In our city it was a bit wrong. The drunken company was not allowed into the night club. Moreover, for the guards, a young guy also stood up - a martial artist. After some time, these subjects returned, in one trauma, in another double-barreled shotgun. One shot from a shotgun hit the athlete's foot. Fraction. The guy died of blood loss in a hospital. The bastards were detained only the next day. The guards of the club had no weapons. The police major rested in his free time and in civilian life. He was then fired for not detaining criminals. (This is with bare hands !!!) And the question arises - if the bastard had not a gun, but a gun, would the athlete survive? In any case, his chances of doing so would be extremely high. Second, and if the offender assumed that someone in the club might have a legal pistol, would he dare to go back there? With a high degree of probability that no. Third, if our police could (and were interested in) provide assistance to citizens not only when wearing uniforms and with service weapons, but also in their free time from service? So draw conclusions.
      1. Letnab
        Letnab 15 November 2017 04: 19 New
        0
        Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
        In our city it was a bit wrong. The drunken company was not allowed into the night club. Moreover, for the guards, a young guy also stood up - a martial artist. After some time, these subjects returned, in one trauma, in another double-barreled shotgun. One shot from a shotgun hit the athlete's foot. Fraction. The guy died of blood loss in a hospital. The bastards were detained only the next day. The guards of the club had no weapons. The police major rested in his free time and in civilian life. He was then fired for not detaining criminals. (This is with bare hands !!!) And the question arises - if the bastard had not a gun, but a gun, would the athlete survive? In any case, his chances of doing so would be extremely high. Second, and if the offender assumed that someone in the club might have a legal pistol, would he dare to go back there? With a high degree of probability that no. Third, if our police could (and were interested in) provide assistance to citizens not only when wearing uniforms and with service weapons, but also in their free time from service? So draw conclusions.

        It can only be supplemented if the guards also have weapons? I don’t think that the shooter took a risk not only of shooting, but also of returning.
        1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 15 November 2017 20: 06 New
          +1
          Of course, this would not have happened if the guards had weapons. Instead of a private security company, you can conclude an agreement with the same outside departmental security. But such security is much more expensive, and any owner of such an institution can count money.
  35. Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 14 November 2017 19: 19 New
    +5
    The author, although you blame the opponents for the arguments, but yours are not so hot either, I apologize for the “collective farm” alone. An intelligible and new ZERO whole, x..en tenths. Again srach in the comments needed?
    1. trak
      14 November 2017 20: 52 New
      +1
      Well, then show the author your arguments in return, let people look at their persuasiveness. What do they themselves, nothing but sracha not expressed? Or do you think that you are obligated to believe everything?
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 2 December 2017 16: 36 New
        +5
        I will not present. I did not write a delusional article. As I write, and comment. Clear?
  36. Earnest
    Earnest 14 November 2017 23: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Quote: Rakti-Kali
    Easy. Fear while dying. Finally. Irrevocably

    Bond. Jame Bond. Steepness immeasurable laughing
    Sun, a bit is not a bit, and nothing will help you against sharpening the liver. Exactly yes
    And with the trunk on the street - you are welcome booty. Vku-uuusnaya such, yum wassat

    what nonsense (...
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 November 2017 23: 15 New
      +4
      Right now, you will go to this bastard for bullshit. Golovan horseradish argue.
  37. Earnest
    Earnest 14 November 2017 23: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: mordvin xnumx
    Right now, you will go to this bastard for bullshit. Golovan horseradish argue.

    Hardly. I can communicate with professors on equal terms laughing
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 November 2017 23: 21 New
      +4
      Roman Batkovich will give odds to any professor. I don’t understand, why doesn’t my phone ring? recourse
  38. Letnab
    Letnab 15 November 2017 04: 10 New
    +2
    Quote: Wagr2017
    And now imagine that with weapons, with a short barrel, crowds of townsfolk are hanging around the street. I bought it, - put it in my pocket, - I WILL PROTECT MYSELF!
    It’s better to let the long Saigu wear behind him - it will be visible from afar, and you can not get close.
    Who served in the army - that one’s culture of handling weapons is driven into the subcortex. But “jackets” - God forbid!

    and again, jackets ... straightforward from the staff, you are no different from the others ..
  39. CONTROL
    CONTROL 15 November 2017 10: 13 New
    +2
    Quote: Wagr2017
    . And in the car I drive just a forged nail puller. He is better than the mount.

    ... because - and "dumb heavy object" and "penetrating ... sharp weapon" in one hand?
    - Moscow trash. But normal people live in Russia.
    Here are the golden words !!! There would be six hands - he would have raised all the pros!
    until the "militia" returns, which in my opinion, and experience, in fact, was not against the people, but for the people. I always respected the cops. Old, Soviet. ... That's when I ran into the cops. There were normal men.
    And now, I’m looking at the "cops", and it feels like he wants to hit me with a club on turnips with a club.
    Are these "guarantors of peace"?
    ... and again, six hands in favor!
    Security, self-defense and weapons are all different things to me.
    ... and if combined?
    1. your1970
      your1970 15 November 2017 11: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: CONTROL
      And in the car I drive just a forged nail puller. He is better than the mount.
      ... because - and "dumb heavy object" and "penetrating ... sharp weapon" in one hand?
      -
      Yes.
      ... if you wipe it with a cloth - "Yes, I was driving, and he is lying on the road !!! I called the police and an ambulance, suddenly a man dies a good one!"
      1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
        Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 15 November 2017 20: 12 New
        +1
        A nail clipper is just a tool, a household item that can legally be in a car. But if the illegal trunk is in the same place, then yes - then "he was driving, and he is lying on the road. Here I’m taking him to the police to hand over" and the corresponding statement with the corresponding date. 90s experience ... (not mine smile )
  40. trak
    15 November 2017 20: 05 New
    0
    In the rushing rushing, just "mass slaughter"! And then some say that the author is tired of it ... But nevertheless, they always get involved when it is published. Paradox!
  41. Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 15 November 2017 22: 13 New
    0
    Quote: MOSKVITYANIN
    Let the girls go to court to work as secretaries for 6 TR,

    Ghm ... what year have you remembered now! ?? 6 kilo rubles from the court clerk could be a year like that in 2003.
  42. then
    then 16 November 2017 09: 58 New
    0
    Rakti-kali,
    So it turns out that "now scumbags can already have weapons, and without permission, they are not law-abiding." and "adequate and law-abiding people who have been trained to use it should have weapons." - two independent judgments, while still conditional. The first judgment of reality, requiring additional justification. The second judgment is from the realm of desire, one of many decisions. In order for the second judgment to be a consequence of the second, a chain of unconditional logical arguments must be built that confirm the inevitability (existence and uniqueness) of such a decision. Which of the conditional judgments is not done. Therefore, I concluded that there is no causal connection between these judgments.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 12: 10 New
      0
      Quote: sedan
      Therefore, I concluded that there is no causal connection between these judgments.

      This is if we consider the situation as a spherical horse in a vacuum. But here we are considering a very specific situation with many factors, where the need to resolve CSR is determined, among other things, by the factor of free access of criminals to illegal weapons, bypassing the law "On weapons".
      1. then
        then 16 November 2017 13: 15 New
        +1
        So all the more, the consideration of this particular situation requires, if not strict logical, then at least consistent evidence-based reasoning. Otherwise, all this really results in a discussion of the spherical horse in a vacuum. If we believe that the state should allow the population of CSR, then such arguments should be given in favor of this decision that there should be no excluded third.
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 14: 57 New
          0
          Quote: sedan
          So all the more, the consideration of this particular situation requires, if not strict logical, then at least consistent evidence-based reasoning. Otherwise, all this really results in a discussion of the spherical horse in a vacuum. If we believe that the state should allow the population of CSR, then such arguments should be given in favor of this decision that there should be no excluded third.

          Dear, a dispute for the sake of a dispute is not interesting to me. Do you want scholastics? I recommend the site of any church.
  43. your1970
    your1970 16 November 2017 11: 20 New
    0
    Nemesis, and you try to block the judge’s door, and there it will be clear who will be responsible
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 12: 12 New
      0
      Quote: your1970
      Nemesis, and you try to block the judge’s door, and there it will be clear who will be responsible

      sv1970, and you try not to open the door to the assault group of the Central Defense Council, and there you will see how much you will live after that.
      1. your1970
        your1970 16 November 2017 13: 48 New
        +1
        arrows do not translate, the conversation was about not opening the door incomprehensible NEMESIDE with "ready for the barrel".Assault - it will be a little later, if any.
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 16 November 2017 14: 59 New
          0
          Quote: your1970
          do not translate the arrows — the conversation was about not opening the door of the incomprehensible NEMESIS with the “barrel ready”. Assault - it will be a little later, if any.

          do not translate the arrows - there was no word in the conversation about the judge in the apartment.
          1. your1970
            your1970 16 November 2017 15: 33 New
            0
            “Nervous, maybe crazy?” Having learned about the weapons from you, I’ll add, he wanted to take me hostage, an illegal restriction of freedom, namely, your “blocking” is evident. You can demand on this basis to institute criminal proceedings under the article - they will refuse to someone, but they may also initiate (if you, for example, the door of a judge belay block) .. "- in my previous post, from where it blew here.

            I understood your position hi
  44. VladimirSPb
    VladimirSPb 16 November 2017 14: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: Titsen
    Quote: K0
    Threat in general, my opinion: we have enough problems with traumatism. others are not needed yet.


    But my opinion is that the problem is not in the heads of ordinary citizens, but among our rulers!

    And it is called - FEAR!

    Only the fear not of us ordinary citizens, but for our relatives, to fear that they will be thrown off, excommunicated from the AUTHORITIES.

    So you are AUTHORIZED CITIZENS adopt laws for people and follow them strictly, and then you will have nothing to fear!

    And crime and hooliganism will be afraid!

    I am for the short barrel!

    Totally agree with you.
    1. your1970
      your1970 16 November 2017 19: 29 New
      0
      Quote: VladimirSPb
      Quote: Titsen
      Quote: K0
      Threat in general, my opinion: we have enough problems with traumatism. others are not needed yet.

      But my opinion is that the problem is not in the heads of ordinary citizens, but among our rulers!
      And it is called - FEAR!
      Only the fear not of us ordinary citizens, but for our relatives, to fear that they will be thrown off, excommunicated from the AUTHORITIES.
      So you are AUTHORIZED CITIZENS adopt laws for people and follow them strictly, and then you will have nothing to fear!
      And crime and hooliganism will be afraid!
      I am for the short barrel!

      Totally agree with you.

      Based on your logic, the US government should crap right away at the sight of ordinary American citizens - for 250 000 000 trunks on hands. That at least in 200 (!!!) time more - than the American army / national guard / police combined ....
      Not crap? !! not? !! And should? !!
      a little bit (as in Ferguson) - the blacks were cleaned up by the physicists and everything was as usual, do they have little guns there or not — this sheriff doesn’t wave at all.
      Not a single state in the world is afraid of the presence of weapons of CSR among citizens - as long as citizens are not organized into a group capable of making a coup / revolution, just then the state uses tanks / machine guns / aircraft, again - not paying attention to the presence of CSR
  45. Mwg
    Mwg 16 November 2017 19: 13 New
    +1
    Well, as usual ... As soon as the article is about carrying weapons, then immediately commentators-supporters of the article have massive support. Miraculously, 14-17 stars all the supporters of the author of the article have))))) Does an organized group work? )))))))
    1. trak
      16 November 2017 20: 49 New
      +1
      No, you are our naive, this is no longer a group, this is a nation! So keep up with the people. Everyone who is honest, give us a hand, to our ranks, friends!
      1. Mwg
        Mwg 17 November 2017 06: 11 New
        +1
        Yeah, "everyone ran and I ran."
        Are you sure of the honesty of those who took your first hand?
        1. trak
          17 November 2017 15: 54 New
          0
          Can you prove their dishonesty to me? Will not be weak?
  46. Brigadier
    Brigadier 16 November 2017 23: 44 New
    +1
    Our "people's representatives" are not going to arm the people to repulse criminals, despite the increasingly weakening Russian police (the word is some nasty, I immediately recall the policemen of the Second World War).
    Why do they need it? They have security, but the people somehow get killed, and then, suddenly, if people are allowed to own weapons, they will start shooting criminals, violating their right to rob! This cannot be allowed in any way, for the life of every criminal for our deputy corps is sacred! And the people again somehow interrupted ...
  47. Belarus is Russia
    Belarus is Russia 17 November 2017 05: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: The same Lech
    the police should work better.


    Not the police ... a psycho in a fit of epilepsy slaughtered people like pigs .... did not register, did not control his condition, did not isolate him on time, etc. ... how many more such loonies do we have in RUSSIA ... the massacre will continue in different ways.
    As for Paddock, there’s still a lot to figure out why he put so many people ... I’ll add that not one of the visitors to the country festival was armed ... excellent meat for the armed shooter ... no return fire ... the police showed themselves disgustingly at organization of the festival without properly organizing its protection ...
    so if anyone needs to be judged it’s the Texas authorities for their carelessness.

    You see how bad it is that there is legalization of weapons ???? The psycho-took the weapon unhindered, because it was legalized, and killed and crippled many people. And if there weren’t a weapon legalized, this shootout wouldn’t exist.
    We must judge the US authorities for the legalization of weapons.
  48. Belarus is Russia
    Belarus is Russia 17 November 2017 05: 29 New
    0
    Quote: The same Lech
    This is for opponents of self-defense by citizens ... a typical situation in Russia ... a psycho cuts down ordinary citizens ... the police, as always, consider corpses in the finale ...




    The state was unable to protect women in advance by isolating this psycho ... in the end, three corpses ... what to do with this ???

    This is for opponents of self-defense by citizens ... a typical situation in Russia ... a psycho cuts down ordinary citizens ... the police, as always, consider corpses in the finale ...

    And this is for proponents of the legalization of weapons — what if this nutcracker bought weapons — and shot people down — like a paddock nutcracker in the United States — from a long, long and safe distance ????? He stabbed people with a knife. And what would he do with weapons ???? Two, three times, or maybe ten times more would put people.
    No, no, no, and again, NO LEGALIZATION OF WEAPONS !!!
    People and I don’t want some scumbags to arm themselves and kill us, our close and beloved people. Such a scumbag, one trouble will do a lot. And if there are two, three? So they will generally put a bunch of people.
    the weapon is dangerous because it kills from a long distance, quickly and in a large number of people. The count goes on for seconds.
    And I and no one wants the weapon to fall into the hands of thugs-bandits without hindrance. And that they go to schools and kill entire classes, kindergartens-kill entire kindergartens, in crowded places, and so on. at a concert — he bought himself a scumbag, a bandit of weapons, climbed into a shelter (in this case, on the floor to the room) —and shoots crowds of people for himself. Quickly, from a long distance, a large number. Something needed to be proved. Legalization of weapons is not safe for people does. Legalization of weapons makes even more dangerous-thugs-bandits and sihovs, and people are even more helpless and weaker. Because people and scumbags-psycho-bandits think differently. Thugs-psycho-bandits think like to kill people more and faster. And people think how to spend the evening with Masha there or with Nastya or how to pick up children from a kindergarten or how to return home from work. Or how to hang out at a concert. That's why I am against the legalization of weapons. Because with legalization, people become weaker, and thugs-killers-bandits are stronger and faster in killing people. With the help of killer weapons = scumbags-psychos-people kill faster, from distant rasstonia, from shelter and in greater numbers.
    1. NikolaiN
      NikolaiN 17 November 2017 08: 16 New
      +1
      You did not read the article inattentively, there we are talking about a “shortbridge”, I am translating - about pistols. And here, in almost every second comment, Peddock and other shootings are brought with rifles. These are two big differences, as they say ...
  49. Belarus is Russia
    Belarus is Russia 17 November 2017 05: 35 New
    0
    Quote: your1970
    Quote: VladimirSPb
    Quote: Titsen
    Quote: K0
    Threat in general, my opinion: we have enough problems with traumatism. others are not needed yet.

    But my opinion is that the problem is not in the heads of ordinary citizens, but among our rulers!
    And it is called - FEAR!
    Only the fear not of us ordinary citizens, but for our relatives, to fear that they will be thrown off, excommunicated from the AUTHORITIES.
    So you are AUTHORIZED CITIZENS adopt laws for people and follow them strictly, and then you will have nothing to fear!
    And crime and hooliganism will be afraid!
    I am for the short barrel!

    Totally agree with you.

    Based on your logic, the US government should crap right away at the sight of ordinary American citizens - for 250 000 000 trunks on hands. That at least in 200 (!!!) time more - than the American army / national guard / police combined ....
    Not crap? !! not? !! And should? !!
    a little bit (as in Ferguson) - the blacks were cleaned up by the physicists and everything was as usual, do they have little guns there or not — this sheriff doesn’t wave at all.
    Not a single state in the world is afraid of the presence of weapons of CSR among citizens - as long as citizens are not organized into a group capable of making a coup / revolution, just then the state uses tanks / machine guns / aircraft, again - not paying attention to the presence of CSR

    Largest U.S. Massacres in the XNUMXst Century
    https://news.mail.ru/incident/31197760/
  50. EvilLion
    EvilLion 17 November 2017 08: 11 New
    +1
    Another psycho, justifying their complexes and the desire to shoot fifty people with some kind of mythical self-defense.