Military Review

"Socialism can still conquer capitalism"

70
The international forum "October. Revolution. Future" took place in Moscow. Its participants - domestic and foreign experts - evaluated the results of the October Revolution 1917 of the year and discussed the "lessons" that the country could draw from the event that determined not only for Russia, but for the whole world. Scientists believe that socialism can still triumph over capitalism, experts also do not exclude the "second stage" of the development of the revolution, which will complete the process of alternative socio-economic development begun at the beginning of the last century. Details - in the material on the eve.RU.


One of the key points of the plenary session of the forum was the recognition that the event that took place in Russia in 1917 year had not only national but also international content. Professor of St. Petersburg State University Viktor Ryazanov spoke about this, who recalled that already in 1915, in one of Vladimir Lenin’s speeches, it was pointed out that the emerging events should become the “starting point” for the development of the revolution around the world.

"The Russian Social Democrats linked the events in Russia with the global context. This is one of the important features of the events of 100 years ago. Lenin believed that a bourgeois-democratic revolution should take place in Russia, and at the same time a socialist revolution should take place in the West. That is, it was I am convinced that what is happening in Russia will become a kind of “fuse” for the subsequent process of socialist revolutions in Europe. They should have consolidated the results of the bourgeois-democratic revolution in Russia and then ensure that we develop it into otsialisticheskuyu ", - the expert opined.

As the economist noted, even before September 1917, Lenin admitted the possibility of continuing this revolution, making a definite calculation on creating a large coalition of Eurosils. However, at the end of September 1917, the political orientation of the Bolshevik Party and Lenin’s party was changing, and the bet was being placed on the development of a revolution in Russia into a socialist one.

The international significance of the events of October 1917 in our country was confirmed by the results of transformations, Ryazanov continued.

"The fact that accelerated modernization took place in the Soviet Union, that social priorities were ensured in social development, that the country was able to reach a high level of interaction with other states - these are undoubted results that we today use to a certain extent. a resource that has not been fully exhausted yet, "the expert commented.

He also believes that there is no reason to put an end to the "theme of socialism" in connection with the collapse of the USSR. In his opinion, the period of “completion started” in the 1917 year is still coming, since the capitalist system is in an acute crisis.

“As soon as capitalism has disappeared a serious and important opponent in the form of socialism, we see that it has returned to its former form - classical, traditional, with sharp contradictions and economic problems. This gives rise to the question whether the collapse of the USSR means that the theme of socialism means completed? Acute forms of the crisis of the capitalist system indicate that the problem of finding alternative socio-economic development is once again coming to the fore, "said Ryazanov.

So, he admits a variant suggesting the beginning of "the second stage, which will complete the solution of alternative possibilities of socio-economic development."

"In the future, we will be in the face of whether we need to develop a movement that did not work out in the past?" - A foreign expert, a professor at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, David Kotz agreed.

According to him, the key lesson of the 1917 revolution of the year that needs to be learned is the ability of society to develop. This could happen only in the case of the stability of socialism. “In the transformation of socialism, it was necessary to put power in the hands of people. This is what needs to be done today, now is a very dangerous moment when we see that nationalist forces are moving forward more and more,” he said.

However, the stability of socialism in the USSR "shaken" because of a number of reasons. In particular, a foreign scientist calls among them too much centralization of economic planning in the country. And also the "loss of the former orientation" of the Communist Party at the end of the 20 century.

"We see that the concentration of power at the top was such that, over time, the party leaders ceased to be a group of revolutionaries who wanted to build a new society, but became a group of privileged people, many of whom did not believe in socialism," commented Kotz.

"Socialism can still conquer capitalism"


As a result, at the end of 1980-s, Soviet officials began to "pursue some of their goals," the expert said.

"In recent years, polls show that the majority of Soviet people wanted the USSR to remain ... It was the main separation between the leaders of the country and the population. Boris Yeltsin was able to seize the leadership of the pro-capitalist forces, the USSR collapsed then ... It was a crime and a big tragedy," added Kotz

A similar opinion was expressed by Dean Xiaoqin, a professor at Shanghai University of Finance and Economics, who said that the reforms of the last USSR President Mikhail Gorbachev were not based on the principles of socialism, and the Communist Party at that time "lost its orientation." Speaking about the lessons of the 1917 revolution of the year, he focused on the causes of the collapse of the USSR and the impact of this event on events in the world.

“For China, the Soviet Communist Party was an example. We currently have 89 million members in the party. And we are facing the problems that were during the collapse of the Soviet Union, although more than 20 years have passed. We analyze historical events, we understand that we need to understand the reasons for its collapse, "he said.

"We need to better understand what happened from August to December 1991 of the year ... Having won the October Revolution, the socialist party gained control of the state, it was a weak spot of imperialism," said Dean Xiaoqin.

At the forum there were other foreign experts (in particular, Richard Corell), who thanked Russia in the face of their fellow scientists for the October Revolution.

German scientist Herzog Ernst drew attention to the consequences of the collapse of socialism in Russia, noting that the country still plays an important role in the fight against the imperialist system. “It is important for us to know where aggression is coming from - from Russia or from NATO and imperialism? Obviously, from NATO ... It is regrettable that German troops are on the border between Estonia and Russia,” he said.

“We see Russia not as an imperialist country, but as a country that goes its own way from nationalism to capitalism. In the socialist countries, the bourgeoisie is no longer visible, it was hidden, but it is born again only with the help of imperialism,” Ernst added.

According to the expert, post-Soviet Russia still managed to build a system in such a way as to “protect the people” and prevent the hidden bourgeoisie, including the businessmen Vladimir Potanin and Mikhail Khodorkovsky, from being allowed to power.

"We see that there is some resistance so that they come to power. There was resistance inside Russia against the sale of the country's wealth. The forces around Vladimir Putin came to protect the people of the country against imperialism. Russia defends national independence against imperialism. It is very important that Putin - representative of the national bourgeoisie of Russia - against the hidden bourgeoisie, "- said the German scientist.

Professor of Moscow State University, director of the MFUA Institute of Socioeconomics, Alexander Buzgalin, however, did not agree with the opinion of the foreign colleague that Russian leaders represent the "national bourgeoisie."

“Speaking of Russia's international problems, it is important not to forget that there are attempts to pursue an independent policy, but in domestic policy I would not say that the leaders of our country represent the national bourgeoisie. Rather, they represent a bloc of the oligarchic-bureaucratic nomenclature, and the interests of commodity corporations, financial intermediaries and the military industrial complex are dominant.The evidence for this is domestic economic policy, which is not aimed at supporting material production, Russian education, science, it is a policy that strengthens inequality in the country ", - commented the expert.

As he noted, foreign policy runs the risk of “becoming a parody of an independent” if the situation inside the country is not changed.

In his opinion, the model that is needed today and could be a truly effective lesson of the events that have passed over 100 years is social planning. That is, citizens must become co-organizers of public property, each member of society must have ownership of all social wealth, says Buzgalin. At the same time, the ownership of material objects, he said, will soon cease to be a determining factor.

“Changing production relations is a system that should replace the market. I’ll remind you that even 100 has served for years as a means of coordination,” said the professor.

He also added that many of the issues on the current agenda of the country's development - "smart factories, 4.0 industry, material production, the Internet of things, robotics," back in the Soviet era, partly formed the basis of the socialist system.

As the Chinese expert Ding Xiaoqin stressed, the value of the October Revolution is being rethought today, and taking into account the scientific analysis of the reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union, we can expect that socialism "can still triumph over capitalism."

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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 12 November 2017 06: 18 New
    13
    "Socialism can still defeat capitalism"

    "It’s a pity only - to live in this wonderful time
    I don’t have to - neither to me nor to you. ”" N. A. Nekrasov. Railway.
    1. Tatyana
      Tatyana 12 November 2017 07: 38 New
      +9
      Professor of Moscow State University, Director of the Institute of Socioeconomics of the Moscow Institute of Law and Finance Alexander Buzgalin, who spoke best at the conference, did not agree with the opinion of a foreign colleague about that Russian leaders represent the "national bourgeoisie."
      "Speaking about the international problems of Russia, it is important not to forget that there are attempts to conduct an independent policy, but in domestic politics I would not say that leaders of our country represent the national bourgeoisie. Rather they represent a block of oligarchic-bureaucratic nomenclature, and the interests of commodity corporations, financial intermediaries and the military-industrial complex are dominant. The evidence of this is domestic economic policy, which is not aimed at supporting material production, Russian education, science, it is a policy that strengthens inequality in the country. "
      foreign policy risks "turning into a parody of an independent one" if the situation inside the country is not changed.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 12 November 2017 12: 05 New
      +6
      Like it or not, no one has yet surpassed the Marxist explanation of the evolution of society scientifically. And therefore, socialism, as the first stage of communism, is evolutionarily logical. Another thing, will humanity survive before it, if it does not destroy itself before that? hi
      1. Sharapov
        Sharapov 12 November 2017 17: 14 New
        +5
        Quote: siberalt
        and no one has yet surpassed the Marxist explanation of the evolution of society scientifically. And therefore, socialism, as the first stage of communism, is evolutionarily logical. Another thing, will humanity survive before it, if it does not destroy itself before that?

        In scientific terms, he didn’t surpass, no one bothered with delusional activities, and in life, people didn’t give a damn, crossed himself and forgot like a nightmare.
        Socialism, originally utopian, was in practice utopian for life. The error of our "lights" and the fabulousness of the theory was that the basis of socialism is the refusal of members of society from wealth and private property in combination with selfless work for the benefit of society. In fact - a kind of slavery in a beautiful package under the slogans of the Freedom of Equality and Brotherhood. The most ugly manifestation is collective farms, where disenfranchised people worked for "sticks" (that is, almost for nothing), without passports in their hands until the 1960s. It never occurred to anyone to protest, since those who tried at the very beginning on every collective farm disappeared without a trace ....
        But I was distracted. A person, even in America, even in Russia, is an individualist from birth. Genetically, it is laid down in him that he must financially provide for himself, his family and procreation in the first place. The law of nature, a kind of instinct for self-preservation. Utopians decided to give a damn about this law.
        And where the evolution of socialism leads you to North Korea, you need a trip on a trip, they will tell .....
        1. Grandfather
          Grandfather 12 November 2017 17: 57 New
          +6
          Quote: Sharapov
          the basis of socialism is the rejection by members of society of wealth and private property, combined with selfless work for the benefit of society. In fact - a kind of slavery in a beautiful package under the slogans of the Freedom of Equality and Brotherhood.

          hurt yourself ... but now, just slavery, without any slogans.
          1. Sharapov
            Sharapov 12 November 2017 18: 14 New
            +2
            Quote: Dead Day
            hurt yourself ... but now, just slavery, without any slogans.

            Bullshit. There is no slavery, I’m sure that you can easily even afford a trip to the DPRK tomorrow, I recommend that all questions disappear and the brains finally fall into place.
        2. Locksmith
          Locksmith 12 November 2017 18: 17 New
          0
          Quote: Sharapov
          And where the evolution of socialism leads you to North Korea, you need a trip on a trip, they will tell ....

          Why not to Sweden? Everything is much more interesting there. laughing
          1. The comment was deleted.
        3. olimpiada15
          olimpiada15 12 November 2017 20: 12 New
          +8
          "the basis of socialism is the refusal by members of society of wealth and private property, combined with selfless labor for the benefit of society" —and you lived under socialism?
          No one refused the benefits. And the benefits were: apartments, treatment and rest, any person could have a rest at their own salary, and a dispensary without interruption from production, not only to workers, but also to their children. And personal property was inviolable. No one could evict a person from the apartment, even if he did not have a warrant to move. What a contrast with today's times: they take away an apartment, land, business and will save nothing, neither documents on the right of ownership, nor the absence of violations in the introduction of the business. Even those modest incomes that exist can collapse at any moment to the inability to buy the most necessary. What does a person care about the dollar, but the ruble is falling, prices are growing at times, and inflation is 4%. However, indexing is far from all. Stores are littered with food products from the chemical industry, the vast majority of which are better not to eat, so as not to cause harm. If we talk about slavery, now it is 90% of the slave population, consumables for employers, for the voracious elite, the elite does not have other advantages besides consumption. But 10% are those who are allowed everything, they own the bowels, in the State Duma pocket deputies defend their interests, not only popular, but not state. The existing system has no future, for its goal is the collapse of the state. In today's society there is no concept of responsibility to the state: personal interests are above all.
          1. Sharapov
            Sharapov 12 November 2017 22: 04 New
            +2
            Quote: olimpiada15
            Did you live under socialism?

            Yes, I had to. My father is an honored worker in the chemical industry with 42 years of harmful chemistry experience. Not a cabinet worker, but an "acid" workshop. So, during the work I do not remember that he or his family all together we went somewhere to rest. father did not know how to "knock out" vouchers for pull. And he didn’t teach me.
            But I remember well how I went to take a queue in a store for a portion of 200 g of butter - it was given at exactly 17.00 p.m. and only 5 kg. Occupied at 15.00, if later it was already lacking. It was my duty after school. Not only oil - EVERYTHING was by BLAT ..... or by the farce.
            So no laudatory songs about the benefits of socialism are needed.
            1. Young_Communist
              Young_Communist 21 November 2017 02: 31 New
              0
              Quote: Sharapov
              Yes, I had to. My father is an honored worker in the chemical industry with 42 years of harmful chemistry experience. Not a cabinet worker, but an "acid" workshop. So, during the work I do not remember that he or his family all together we went somewhere to rest. father did not know how to "knock out" vouchers for pull. And he didn’t teach me.
              But I remember well how I went to take a queue in a store for a portion of 200 g of butter - it was given at exactly 17.00 p.m. and only 5 kg. Occupied at 15.00, if later it was already lacking. It was my duty after school. Not only oil - EVERYTHING was by BLAT ..... or by the farce.
              So no laudatory songs about the benefits of socialism are needed.

              Here, you read such tales, and then you don’t have to wonder where our whole generation of iPhone bulk players grew up in our country who run to bow to the great-grandchildren of the Nazis and repent for the “sins” of the Red Army.
        4. 34 region
          34 region 12 November 2017 20: 18 New
          +8
          Sharapov Today, 17:14. What is utopianism? In social guarantees? So look at our officials and oligarchs, so they live under socialism! All conditions for the life of a narrow circle of people are created! And you speak not really! Really, really! And how real! And what do not like collective farms? A small private trader did not feed the country after the 90s. Worked for sticks? And in factories for two circles. Do you have to work for what? For the bucks? What are they working for today? For nishtyak ?! Today they work for real payment or virtual? With passports, free people !? And without money what? And without the TIN? And without chips? Then it was impossible to protest? And why then wrote complaints to all bodies? Gone without a trace? Well, today, after the protest, you too can disappear without a trace. Yesterday was, not today. Go, go, the line is behind the gates!
          1. iouris
            iouris 12 November 2017 20: 30 New
            +2
            Quote: 34 region
            look at our officials and oligarchs, so they live under socialism!

            Having appropriated the pipes of the builders of communism and the "convicts" of the Gulag, the oligarchs became slaveholders.
        5. badens1111
          badens1111 12 November 2017 23: 23 New
          +5
          Quote: Sharapov
          And where does the evolution of socialism lead?

          Nonsense..
          Quote: Sharapov
          the basis of socialism is the rejection by members of society of wealth and private property, combined with selfless work for the benefit of society. In fact - a kind of slavery in a beautiful package under the slogans of the Freedom of Equality and Brotherhood.

          Do you even think up this whole scribble yourself, or have you rewritten here from the Spark of the time of the hunch building?
          Quote: Sharapov
          The most ugly manifestation is collective farms, where disenfranchised people worked for "sticks" (that is, almost for nothing), without passports in their hands until the 1960s.

          Feerically .. another burlesque on the theme of groans of asphalt peasants such as Afanasyev ..
        6. stas
          stas 13 November 2017 22: 53 New
          +1
          Sharapov do not disgrace MUR.
          You need to speak with your crap on the ECHO, there you will find many friends.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        7. free
          free 16 November 2017 13: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Sharapov
          Quote: siberalt
          and no one has yet surpassed the Marxist explanation of the evolution of society scientifically. And therefore, socialism, as the first stage of communism, is evolutionarily logical. Another thing, will humanity survive before it, if it does not destroy itself before that?

          In scientific terms, he didn’t surpass, no one bothered with delusional activities, and in life, people didn’t give a damn, crossed himself and forgot like a nightmare.
          Socialism, originally utopian, was in practice utopian for life. The error of our "lights" and the fabulousness of the theory was that the basis of socialism is the refusal of members of society from wealth and private property in combination with selfless work for the benefit of society. In fact - a kind of slavery in a beautiful package under the slogans of the Freedom of Equality and Brotherhood. The most ugly manifestation is collective farms, where disenfranchised people worked for "sticks" (that is, almost for nothing), without passports in their hands until the 1960s. It never occurred to anyone to protest, since those who tried at the very beginning on every collective farm disappeared without a trace ....
          But I was distracted. A person, even in America, even in Russia, is an individualist from birth. Genetically, it is laid down in him that he must financially provide for himself, his family and procreation in the first place. The law of nature, a kind of instinct for self-preservation. Utopians decided to give a damn about this law.
          And where the evolution of socialism leads you to North Korea, you need a trip on a trip, they will tell .....

          Nonsense, you do not know the principles of socialism.
      2. sunzhenets
        sunzhenets 13 November 2017 16: 01 New
        0
        sibiralt Yesterday, 12:05 ↑ New
        Like it or not, no one has yet surpassed the Marxist explanation of the evolution of society scientifically. And therefore, socialism, as the first stage of communism, is evolutionarily logical. Another thing, will humanity survive before it, if it does not destroy itself before that?

        Will survive. An example is China as an example of the development of Stalinist socialism without Khrushchev’s adjustments.
        1. Sharapov
          Sharapov 14 November 2017 06: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Sunflower
          Example - China as an example of the development of Stalinist socialism

          Especially when you consider that China has already developed developed capitalism under the leadership of the Communist Party of China.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 17 November 2017 20: 50 New
            +1
            But the Chinese didn’t know ...
  2. Cat Marquis
    Cat Marquis 12 November 2017 06: 37 New
    +3
    Yes .... The current level of "knowledge" of modern Russian scientists is indicative. You tell them about Thomas, and they tell you about Yerema. The German Herzog Ernst described the new "Russian elite" as a typical bourgeoisie, relying on the classics of Marxism. and in response, a professor at Moscow State University, director of the Institute of Socioeconomics at the Moscow Institute of Law and Finance, Alexander Buzgalin, said that this was not the case and as he had "rejected the now alien" classics of Marxism, he carried his "new-fangled" nonsense about oligarchic bureaucracy ... Yes .... and here you are about the exam say, outraged .. wink
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 12 November 2017 09: 16 New
      +6
      Quote: Marquis Cat
      The current level of “knowledge” of modern Russian scientists is indicative.

      And not only scientists. Replaced one word with a new one - the slave owner to the feudal lord, the feudal lord to the bourgeois, the bourgeois to the oligarch and all, and the already poor slave owner became quite a decent oligarch. People do not see the contents, they see only the outer shell, and yet, as scientists, they could give comprehensive definitions to all these new-fangled phrases and thus see what is hidden under them.
      1. Cat Marquis
        Cat Marquis 12 November 2017 09: 29 New
        +7
        And, in fact, this is the whole tragedy of modern civilization (its developed part) - in the substitution of concepts to conceal the truth, from here comes tolerance and the notorious liberalism ... People are gradually being taught to call "things by their proper names" that is, they are taught to behavioral programming in for the sake of the momentary conjuncture of the so-called "leading elite" -type, they and only they can decide and impose on subordinate criteria what is good today and what is bad
      2. captain
        captain 12 November 2017 11: 53 New
        +3
        Let him win, but not ours. Better in the USA, France, Germany, etc. I will be happy for the Africans, Latinos and other peoples who have suffered from the colonialists. Let everything be taken from them and divided.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 12 November 2017 12: 02 New
          +7
          With us, captain, with us she will triumph over this idea, as if you, former members, betraying something to the oath, did not spin and were not horrified.
          1. dSK
            dSK 12 November 2017 20: 29 New
            +6
            Hello Vlad!
            Text of the Ten Commandments for the Synodal Translation of the Bible:
            1. I am the Lord your God; May there be no bozi ini, except for Mena.
            2. Do not make yourself an idol, and any likeness, an elik in the heavens mountain, and an elik on the earth below, and an elik in the waters under the earth; do not bow to them, nor serve them. (for I am the Lord, your God, a jealous God, punishing children for the guilt of the fathers of the third and fourth kind, who hate me, and do mercy to a thousand generations to those who love me and keep my commandments.)
            3. Do not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; For the Lord will not leave without punishment the one who utters His name in vain.
            4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Work six days, and do all your work; and the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God: do not do anything on this day neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your slave, nor your slave, nor your cattle, nor the stranger who is in your dwellings. For in six days the Lord created heaven and earth, the sea and everything that is in them; and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
            5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
            6. Dont kill.
            7. Do not commit adultery.
            8. Do not steal.
            9. Do not bear false witness against your neighbor.
            10. Do not desire your neighbor's house; do not desire your neighbor’s wife, nor his servant, nor his slave, nor his ox, nor his donkey, anything that your neighbor has. "
            The "Code of the Builder of Communism" from the commandments is copied. But maybe a script is better than a copy? hi
            1. dSK
              dSK 12 November 2017 21: 05 New
              +2
              The "Christian Democratic Union of Germany" (CDU) - the ruling party (since 2005?) There is also the Christian Social Union in Bavaria, a party in Germany, founded on October 13, 1945. He positions himself as a conservative party on a democratic platform and advocates the embodiment of Christian universal human ideals in public policy.
            2. badens1111
              badens1111 12 November 2017 23: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: dsk
              The "Code of the Builder of Communism" from the commandments is copied. But maybe a script is better than a copy?

              One thing doesn’t interfere with the other. But the service of church bureaucrats, convinced wimps, they say you’ll have everything, but then when you die, it doesn’t inspire you, except for those who are completely hit by your head ..
            3. sunzhenets
              sunzhenets 13 November 2017 16: 03 New
              0
              dsk Yesterday, 20:29 ↑ New
              Hello Vlad!
              Text of the Ten Commandments for the Synodal Translation of the Bible: ...

              Orthodoxy of the brain (PGM)
  3. apro
    apro 12 November 2017 06: 38 New
    +7
    Today, and in the near future, this is utopia, there are no forces, no ideas, no driving force. Perhaps a new level of technology? And even this is not a fact, the authorities will find a way to reduce the number of herds that are not needed.
    Socialism is primarily an organization of civil society, and this is a big problem in Russia. Today, the basis for goal-setting is personal success, profit from the exploitation of society.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 12 November 2017 06: 50 New
      +7
      Quote: apro
      Today, and in the near future, this is utopia, there are no forces, no ideas, no driving force. Perhaps a new level of technology?

      Everything is easier. The ideas embodied in communism are beyond praise, but humanity as a biological species is not capable of it in principle. There are, of course, certain people, but they are individual people.
      1. apro
        apro 12 November 2017 07: 12 New
        +3
        Quote: Dart2027
        but humanity as a biological species is basically not capable of it

        About this conclusion I came to, Homo Hapiens is a great opportunist, this is his way of survival, and capitalism, socialism or slavery does not matter, adapt.
        1. prodi
          prodi 12 November 2017 08: 26 New
          0
          well, if we recall that we were hollowed out on history, social science, and so on, then the education of the person of the future was the main condition for building a bright future ... This was well understood. As the perfect necessity of the world revolution was understood, (from where is our irrational internationalism), for capitalism is more dynamic. Well, socialism, in one particular country, was not stable enough.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 12 November 2017 09: 27 New
            +5
            Quote: prodi
            then the upbringing of the person of the future was the main condition for building a bright future

            Parenting is good, only nature cannot escape anywhere. Where did all those who robbed in the 90s come from the moon?
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 12 November 2017 09: 43 New
              +5
              Quote: Dart2027
              Parenting is good, only nature cannot escape anywhere. Where did all those who robbed in the 90s come from the moon?

              Culture is instilled over the centuries, and savagery comes instantly. If the institutions of power in the country have weakened and the power itself has degenerated into something like a crime, should our 90 be surprised?
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 12 November 2017 11: 09 New
                +4
                Quote: badens1111
                Culture instills over the centuries, and savagery comes instantly

                No culture affects the essence of humanity. It is the most highly developed nations who have become the culprits of the most terrible crimes.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 12 November 2017 11: 22 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  No culture affects the essence of humanity. It is the most highly developed nations who have become the culprits of the most terrible crimes.

                  Hinting on Hitler Germany? Yes, there is something in it.
                  But you look what preceded that the cultural people, became a beast.
                  And the name of this Versailles, when Germany was bent and put in such conditions that it would be naive not to expect revenge and what Versailles spilled into.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 12 November 2017 13: 41 New
                    +4
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Hinting on Hitler Germany?

                    What new did Hitler come up with? War of extermination? Genocide? The theory of a higher race? Concentration camps?
                    All this was already before him, remember even the Indians. Hitler was the most common European politician, everyone is there, it is no coincidence that he was a dear friend while he was being prepared for war with the USSR.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 12 November 2017 15: 07 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Dart2027
                      What new did Hitler come up with?

                      Nothing but the absolute primacy of the fullness of the Anglo-Saxons and the inferiority of others, all that the West always suffered from, and here the genocide of the Indians and the genocide of the African people fits into the picture of the world that the WEST paints in general.
              2. kalibr
                kalibr 12 November 2017 11: 20 New
                +1
                According to the basics of such scientific disciplines as sociology and cultural studies - one century is the life of three generations. Culture (certain) is formed ONLY in three generations! Moreover, life in a stable social environment. What did we have? 1861 ... then a new culture in the country (no matter what, most importantly sustainable) should have arisen by 1961. But what were the perturbations during this time? 1917, 41-45, 1956 ... Just at least something "settled down" by 1991, and again, face on the table ... In the conditions of the information society, the formation of a new culture is faster. But ... anyway, this is at least 2 generations - that is 66 years old. We add 1991 to 66 and get ... 2050. That is, at least a new Russian culture will be formed by this time. Again, it doesn’t matter which - bad, good - it is important that the majority of the society is national. What do we have now? 2017 year. Until 2050, another 33 years. That is, a change of the WHOLE GENERATION! Hence, all that we have. And after the 91st, there was no stability. It began in 2000 ... and how much longer can we wait? It’s easy to count!
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 12 November 2017 11: 25 New
                  +2
                  Quote: kalibr
                  It started with 2000 ... and how long should we wait?

                  The trouble is that in 90, having thrown everything into a landfill, they threw it away and that it was impossible to throw it away, the same education, for example, the Bologna system, a system for fooling but not for promoting education and culture.
                  Do not you agree that classical education gives a holistic picture of the world, and Bolonka, a mosaic, chaotic ... as a result is a mess in the head and the decline of that very culture.
                  1. captain
                    captain 12 November 2017 11: 55 New
                    +1
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Quote: kalibr
                    It started with 2000 ... and how long should we wait?

                    The trouble is that in 90, having thrown everything into a landfill, they threw it away and that it was impossible to throw it away, the same education, for example, the Bologna system, a system for fooling but not for promoting education and culture.
                    Do not you agree that classical education gives a holistic picture of the world, and Bolonka, a mosaic, chaotic ... as a result is a mess in the head and the decline of that very culture.

                    One moment; classical education was in Russia before 17
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 12 November 2017 11: 59 New
                      +2
                      Quote: captain
                      One moment; classical education was in Russia before 17

                      And? Did the Red Project reject it?
                      You yes, at 90 they threw everything into a landfill, now here we are observing from you and others like you the complete run wild and misunderstanding of your own history.
                    2. sunzhenets
                      sunzhenets 13 November 2017 16: 06 New
                      0
                      captain
                      One moment; classical education was in Russia before 17

                      It was. But not for everyone.
                  2. kalibr
                    kalibr 12 November 2017 18: 53 New
                    +2
                    Here on the site there is a certain Maggot ... he is not a victim of the Bologna system, not at all. It seems to be not young. So he studied in the USSR. Otkel took this ... You look at his comments on my article about the Bronze Age! Ears are fading! "Victims of the exam" are just smarts next to this ... And this is not the only one. There are many of them!
            2. Yura Yakovlev
              Yura Yakovlev 14 November 2017 08: 52 New
              +1
              "Parenting is good, but there’s no escape from nature. Where did all those who robbed in the 90s come from the moon?"

              The right question. In the 90s everyone found out who is who. Georgians are thieves in law, Jews are bankers and money-lenders, Azerbaijanis are traders, Moldovans are eternal plowmen, only Russians are left out of work. It turned out that one upbringing is completely not enough, the genetic heritage of a person is much more important, which determines 95% of all his life actions. Who is good? Ethno-socionics can answer this question. Socialism is good for one people, capitalism for another, feudal system for the third, but all with national shades. Russians are good designers and inventors (creators), while Germans and Japanese are good technologists (performers). The cleaner the people (fewer generic haplogroups), the less problems this people have in realizing their ideas on the state system and implementing the ideas of material well-being.
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 12 November 2017 09: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: Dart2027
        but humanity as a biological species is basically not capable of it.

        Tell me, what do you know about the Old Believers (ROCC)? In my opinion, they live long ago under communism. They all work for the well-being of all.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 12 November 2017 09: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: Boris55
          They all work for the well-being of all.

          In tiny communities in some isolation? Let's just say that the Chinese have a saying:
          "It's easy to be a saint sitting on Mount Tai Shan. It's much harder to stay a saint sitting in a bazaar."
          Or to quote one classic:
          “Neither I, nor the sixty thousand destitute who are in this camp, nor the millions of people equal to you whom you, using brute force, have enslaved, were not born to become slaves of your own kind.”
          “There were always slaves,” the ambassador replied, and, as if in sympathy, shook his head, “from the very day that a man raised his sword to hit his neighbor.” Man to man is a beast by nature, by nature; believe me, Spartacus, your dreams are unrealizable dreams of a noble soul: this is the law of human nature; gentlemen and slaves must exist; it was and always will be.
          “No, this shameful difference did not always exist,” Spartak said fervently. - It began from the day when the earth ceased to bear fruit to its inhabitants; from the day when the farmer stopped cultivating the land on which he was born and which was supposed to feed him; from the day when justice, which lived among the villagers, left the fields, this is their last refuge, and retired to Olympus; it was then that immoderate appetites were born, unrestrained passions, luxury, bragging, strife, war, extermination ...
          “You want to return people to their pristine state.” And you hope you can achieve this?
          Spartacus was silent; he was shocked, he was horrified by this terrible in its simplicity question, which seemed to reveal to him the impracticability of his noble dreams. Patricius continued:
          “If even the omnipotent Roman Senate joined you, then even the cause you conceived would not have triumphed.” Only the gods are given the power to change human nature.
          “But if,” Spartacus objected after a few minutes of reflection, “the existence of the rich and the poor is inevitable on earth, then is the existence of slavery inevitable?” Is it necessary for the winners to laugh and rejoice at the sight of how poor gladiators destroy each other? Is this bloodthirsty and cruel animal instinct really an essential property of human nature, is it a necessary element of human happiness?
          Now the Roman ceased; he was struck by the justice of the gladiator; bowing his head to his chest, he fell into deep thought.
          (Raffaello Giovagnoli, Spartak)
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 12 November 2017 10: 49 New
            0
            Quote: Dart2027
            In tiny communities in some isolation?

            To date, according to official figures of Old Believers in Russia, a million. Before the revolution, these were mainly merchants (Savva Morozov). Under Stalin, many representatives of the Old Believers were part of the country's top leadership, and even now they are there.
            Addresses, surnames, appearances - I will not give out.
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 12 November 2017 11: 08 New
              +1
              Quote: Boris55
              Before the revolution, these were mainly merchants (Savva Morozov).

              And what did they spend all their wealth on the common good?
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 12 November 2017 11: 22 New
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                And what did they spend all their wealth on the common good?

                Nah. They did not share with the King. The clergy decided to whom to allocate how much money and to whom to appoint a merchant. The merchant was a simple hired worker. But as elsewhere, there were geniuses who imagined themselves ...
                More details can be found in the books of A. Pyzhikov: "The roots of Stalinist Bolshevism." "Faces of the Russian schism" and written in simple language "Slavic Fault". Retell their content does not make sense. Find them on the internet is not difficult.
    2. iouris
      iouris 12 November 2017 20: 26 New
      0
      Quote: apro
      Socialism is primarily a civil society organization.

      Powerfully pushed back! However, before writing something to the public, it would be nice to first study the theory of the issue.
  4. vlad007
    vlad007 12 November 2017 07: 27 New
    +3
    But in Sweden or in Norway (also a “gas station”, by the way) what is socialism or capitalism? For some reason, socialism in our country is associated primarily with the form of ownership - public or private. It is not a matter of ownership, but distribution of profits - how much does anyone get and how is it used.
    1. Cat Marquis
      Cat Marquis 12 November 2017 08: 07 New
      +8
      That's for sure. For example, in Switzerland, laws can only be put forward by the “public chamber” after public discussion. And there is a rule that any newly adopted law should replace at least 2 existing ones so that there is no “paper ball" and no "crazy printer". But in Russia, for some reason, they take the worst of the “Western” experience, if only this would correspond to the rule necessary for the current leadership: “make more give and pay less in return” ...
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 12 November 2017 09: 25 New
      0
      Quote: vlad007
      It’s not about ownership, but about profit sharing

      Take and share everything - this is our way laughing
      1. Cat Marquis
        Cat Marquis 12 November 2017 09: 47 New
        +5
        Take and share everything - this is our way

        Distribute fishing rods to everyone and make sure that they do not catch more than what is permitted — surpluses are withdrawn to the common fund — this is in Chinese. Establish a store and sell different types of fishing rods (who has how much money) -customized help to implement in the bazaar- "European" option, sell fishing rods and take fishermen to a field away from the river and the sea - the EU plan for Ukraine ... wink
    3. MrK
      MrK 12 November 2017 15: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: vlad007
      But in Sweden or in Norway (also a “gas station”, by the way) what is socialism or capitalism?


      I agree. Throughout the struggle for power in the 1917 year, Lenin emphasized that socialism is different from capitalism
      not material and technical base - they have a common base,
      - and not even a form of ownership, since under critical conditions capitalism goes to nationalization.
      The key difference between socialism and capitalism lies in the nature of power: if it serves the people, it is socialism, if for business it is capitalism.
      1. Sharapov
        Sharapov 12 November 2017 17: 43 New
        +2
        Quote: mrark
        The key difference between socialism and capitalism lies in the nature of power: if it serves the people, it is socialism, if for business it is capitalism.

        I do not agree.
        It is not correct to speak of the CPSU as serving the people of the USSR. I will not list how many resources and credits the CPSU "presented" to "friendly countries" (we still forgive billions of billions). Serving the CPSU in this way to foreign nations was — but about serving the Soviet people — they printed coupons, and enough of them, they won’t die of hunger.
        The key difference is not in the theoretical slogan to which you refer, but in the practice of the lives of ordinary citizens. Labor for the good of society was extremely ineffective, unlike the labor of a person working "for himself". Well, it was not possible in the USSR to educate the builder of communism - for some reason, in the head of most of the "builders of communism" there was a pursuit of imported clothes.
        Quote: mrark
        - and not even a form of ownership, since under critical conditions capitalism goes to nationalization.

        I do not agree. In practice, this is very rare - only in life-supporting sectors, and their share is 0,0001% of GDP. Has this happened in Russia over the past 10 years? I don’t remember.
  5. VladGashek
    VladGashek 12 November 2017 14: 56 New
    +1
    It is important to understand the reasons for the temporary defeat of socialism and the degeneration of the communist parties into closed "orders of like-thinking", their separation from the mood of the people. The key is in the correct assessment of the development strategy and principles proposed in due time by both Stalin and Khrushchev. They, albeit to varying degrees, are responsible for descriminating the ideas of communism and the practice of socialism.
  6. kalibr
    kalibr 12 November 2017 16: 23 New
    0
    Quote: badens1111
    Do not you agree that classical education gives a holistic picture of the world, and Bolonka, a mosaic, chaotic ... as a result is a mess in the head and the decline of that very culture.

    You write this to me, with 82 working in high school? All reforms have passed through me and are passing ... It is difficult for me to answer briefly and comprehensively. But it is funny that I discussed this issue yesterday at a seminar with students. And what have we decided? That the volume of culture as a whole does not change. That "more or less" is a relative concept. That culture and education always respond to the challenge of time. But ... I had the idea to write about modern higher education, it will be interesting to you and many who have studied for a long time. Now everything is different!
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 12 November 2017 16: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      write about modern higher education, it will be interesting

      Write, read. At the same time, we will write our impressions of some universities.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 12 November 2017 17: 01 New
        0
        It will be interesting too. only a university does not have to write in capital letters. On this occasion, I remember, “Rusaks” deliberately debated and eventually came to the conclusion that a “university” was necessary. Why are these such preferences?
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 12 November 2017 17: 04 New
    0
    Quote: siberalt
    Like it or not, no one has yet surpassed the Marxist explanation of the evolution of society scientifically.

    Are you sure of that? Take the textbook Culturology for those. universities ed. prof. Baghdasaryan. Look there for ... well, look. You will find many interesting things!
  8. iouris
    iouris 12 November 2017 20: 27 New
    0
    Quote: vlad007
    But in Sweden or in Norway (also a “gas station”, by the way) what is socialism or capitalism?

    There is no problem. Socialism is definitely not there, otherwise the United States would have bombed them.
  9. dvvv
    dvvv 12 November 2017 21: 31 New
    0
    Nope, capitalism will always be ... a system when the strong eat the weak consonant with biology alas
  10. Arbeit macht frei
    Arbeit macht frei 12 November 2017 22: 12 New
    +1
    Uhahah)) yes, yes, it can win) 70 won, won ... and the stgana, in which he won) fell off.
  11. populist
    populist 12 November 2017 22: 38 New
    +1
    Rather, they represent a bloc of oligarchic-bureaucratic nomenclature, and the interests of commodity corporations, financial intermediaries, and the military-industrial complex are dominant. The evidence of this is domestic economic policy, which is not aimed at supporting material production, Russian education, science, it is a policy that strengthens inequality in the country, "

    Buzgalin is looking at the root. The country has a Bonaparte regime with an oligarchic-bureaucratic foundation. crying
  12. Altona
    Altona 13 November 2017 13: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Sharapov
    In scientific terms, he didn’t surpass, no one bothered with delusional activities, and in life, people didn’t give a damn, crossed himself and forgot like a nightmare.
    Socialism, originally utopian, was in practice utopian for life.

    ---------------------------
    But what about the results of the 1989 referendum on the preservation of the USSR? And why was socialism utopian if it really acted, provided education, work and built housing? Another question is that the bosses at the top decided to relieve themselves of any responsibility, they decided to become modern such boyars with a lot of property and huge incomes. You see, the Motherland did not appreciate the work of the minister, since he gave him only 800 rubles of salary, a car and an apartment in Moscow. So you don’t drag people in and don’t speak on behalf of the people, the people didn’t authorize you to do this. Speak only in your own name.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 14 November 2017 19: 31 New
      0
      Quote: Altona
      Another question is that the bosses at the top decided to relieve themselves of any responsibility, they decided to become modern such boyars with a lot of property and huge incomes.

      That’s why Utopia. The Chinese have a saying that it’s easy to be a saint sitting on a mountain and sitting heavily in a bazaar. All ministers come out of the people.
  13. iouris
    iouris 14 November 2017 01: 50 New
    +1
    Socialism in Russia is a historical accident. Marx would not have believed. Therefore, the Bolsheviks waited a long time for the socialist revolution in Germany. Today, all hope is in the USA.
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 14 November 2017 11: 45 New
    0
    Which means "still able." Capitalism will inevitably leave. The whole question will be done as quickly as possible and if it doesn’t work out after a nuclear war.
  15. Mikhail Anokhin
    Mikhail Anokhin 17 November 2017 15: 21 New
    0
    Socialism has everywhere defeated communism! Because in the sense - social - means social. And what other forms of state are there besides public?
    Another thing, if you put a specific political meaning in this word, that is, the revival of the political system that was in the USSR, is absurd!
    He won’t win anything because it’s completely impossible to recreate it!
    But instead of the "invisible hand of the market" to create a planned economy based on the latest communication and computer technologies - yes! It will certainly happen!