Military Review

The image of Russia in the works of K. Marx and F. Engels

361

Here, at the BO, it has repeatedly stressed the banal truth that thinking without knowledge is completely useless, and, above all, for those who comment on someone’s materials only on the basis of what he thinks. That is the key to success in any business is knowledge. The latter, however, is acquired. I have repeatedly advised a number of VO visitors to turn to certain serious scientific journals for information, but, alas, there was no positive answer that, I supposedly used this advice. Therefore, apparently, it is necessary to gradually give here the scientific articles of my colleagues, one way or another revealing little-known pages. stories of our society. One of them is associated with the notorious Marxism. The profiles of Marx and Engels, along with the profile of Lenin and Stalin, were decorated with scenes of congresses and book covers. Later, Stalin's profile was removed, but the founders of the teachings, of course, remained. But is everyone aware of the fact that it was they who had written about Russia for a long time and what position did they occupy in the information field regarding it? And now my colleague in the department is a candidate of philosophical sciences, associate professor Martynova Olga Alexandrovna wrote an article about this which I really want to offer to the visitors of the VO website. The article is given without any additions, comments or corrections on my part. These illustrations are mine ... Well, to defuse the seriousness of the article itself a little!

V.O.Shpakovsky


K. Marx and Fr. Engels are symbolic figures in the ideology of socialism. Their theory formed the basis of the socialist revolution in Russia. In Russia of the Soviet period, their works were actively studied and served as the basis for such disciplines as scientific communism, dialectical materialism, historical materialism; The theory of socio-economic formations formed the basis of Soviet historical science. However, according to N.A. Berdyaev, the revolution in Russia took place “in the name of Marx, but not according to Marx” [1]. It is known that the founders of Marxism for various reasons did not see Russia at the head of the socialist movement. According to them, “the hatred of the Russians was and continues to be with the Germans their first revolutionary passion ...“ a merciless struggle for life and death ”with the Slavs betraying the revolution, the struggle for destruction and ruthless terrorism - not in the interests of Germany, but in the interests of revolution ”[2, 306]. Their derogatory statements about the character and abilities of Russians, for example, about their “almost unprecedented ability to trade in its lower forms, to use favorable circumstances and to the inextricably associated deceit, are known: it was not for nothing that Peter I said that one Russian would cope with by three Jews ”[3, 539]. In the light of such contradictions, the problem of the relationship of Karl Marx and F. Engels to Russia, their understanding of its past and future, and its position on the world stage, seems interesting. It should be noted that in this matter K. Marx and F. Engels were like-minded; F. Engels himself in his work “The Foreign Policy of Russian Tsarism” noted that, describing the negative influence of Russian Tsarism on the development of Europe, he continued the work of his late friend.


The image of Russia in the works of K. Marx and F. Engels

Already by 1933, the canonical image of the image of the leaders of the communist ideology was formed: Marx, then Engels, and then Lenin and Stalin first on the left. Moreover, the first three look "somewhere there" and only the look of "Comrade Stalin" is directed at those who are in front of the poster. “Big brother is watching you!”

The knowledge and opinion of K. Marx and F. Engels about Russia was based on a variety of sources. They were in the know News about the Crimean and Russian-Turkish (1877 - 1878 gg.) wars. Of course, they relied on the works of Russian revolutionaries, with whom they argued: M.A. Bakunin, P.L. Lavrova, P.N. Tkacheva. Analyzing the socio-economic situation of Russia, F. Engels referred to the “Collection of materials on artels in Russia” and Flerovsky's work “The Situation of the Working Class in Russia”. They wrote articles for the American Encyclopedia on the War of 1812 based on Tolya’s memoirs, which they considered to be the best presentation of these events. V.N. Kotov in lectures "K. Marx and F. Engels on Russia and the Russian people ”notes that“ among the books read by K. Marx and F. Engels there are works by Karamzin, Solovyov, Kostomarov, Belyaev, Sergeyevich and several other historians [4]. True, this is not documented; in "Chronological Notes" K. Marx sets forth the events of European, not Russian, history. Thus, the knowledge of K. Marx and F. Engels about Russia is based on a variety of sources, but they can hardly be called deep and thorough.

The first thing that catches the eye when studying the views of the founders of Marxism on Russia is the desire to emphasize the differences between Russians and Europeans. So, speaking of Russian history, K. Marx only at its initial stage - Kievan Rus - recognizes the similarity with European. The empire of Rurikovich (he does not use the name of Kievan Rus) is, in his opinion, an analogue of the empire of Charlemagne, and its rapid expansion is “a natural consequence of the primitive organization of the Norman conquests ... and the need for further conquests was supported by a continuous influx of new Varangian adventurers” [5]. From the text it appears that K. Marx considered this period of Russian history not to be the stage of development of the Russian people, but one of the particular cases of the actions of the German barbarians who flooded Europe at that time. The philosopher believes that the best proof of this thought is that almost all the Kyiv princes were enthroned by the power of the Varangian weapons (although he does not give specific facts). The influence of the Slavs on this process K. Marx completely rejects, recognizing the Novgorod Republic as the Slavic state only. When the supreme power passed from the Normans to the Slavs, the empire of Rurikovich naturally fell apart, and the Mongol-Tatar invasion finally destroyed its remnants. Since then, the paths of Russia and Europe have diverged. Arguing about this period of Russian history, Karl Marx shows a generally reliable, but rather superficial knowledge of its events: for example, he neglects even such a well-known fact that the Khan, who established the Mongol-Tatar yoke in Russia, called not Genghis Khan, but Baty. One way or another, “the cradle of Muscovy was the bloody swamp of Mongolian slavery, and not the stern glory of the Norman era” [5].

The gap between Russia and Europe could not fill the activities of Peter I, which Marx called the desire to "civilize" Russia. According to Karl Marx, German lands “provided him with abundance of officials, teachers and sergeant fellets, who were to train the Russians, giving them that external civilization attack that would prepare them for the perception of the techniques of Western peoples without infecting them with the ideas of the latter” [ 5]. In their desire to show the dissimilarity of Russians to Europeans, the founders of Marxism go far enough. Thus, in a letter to F. Engels, K. Marx approves of the theory of Professor Duchinsky that “Great Russians are not Slavs ... real Muscovites, that is, residents of the former Grand Duchy of Moscow, mostly Mongols or Finns, etc., as well as those located farther to the east, parts of Russia and its southeast parts ... the name Rus was usurped by the Muscovites. They are not Slavs and do not belong to the Indo-Germanic race at all, they are intrus, who need to be driven back beyond the Dnieper ”[6, 106]. Speaking about this theory, Marx takes in quotes the word "discoveries", which shows that he does not take it for immutable truth. But then he clearly enough states his opinion: “I would like Duchinsky to be right, and at least, this view should prevail among the Slavs” [6, 107].


Very correct poster in terms of the rules of heraldry. All people are looking from right to left.

Speaking of Russia, the founders of Marxism note its economic backwardness. In the work "On the social issue in Russia" Fr. Engels accurately and reasonably observes the main trends and problems in the development of the post-reform Russian economy: the concentration of land in the hands of the nobility; land tax paid by peasants; a huge mark-up on the land redeemed by the peasants; the flourishing of usury and financial fraud; the breakdown of the financial and tax system; corruption; destruction of the community against the background of intensified attempts by the state to preserve it; incompetence of workers, contributing to the exploitation of their labor; disorder in agriculture, the lack of land among the peasants and the labor of the landlords. Based on the above data, the thinker makes a disappointing, but fair conclusion: “there is no other such country in which, for all the primitive savagery of bourgeois society, capitalist parasitism would be so developed, just like in Russia, where the whole country, the whole mass of the people is crushed and entangled by its networks »[3, 540].

Along with the economic backwardness of Russia, K. Marx and F. Engels note its military weakness. According to Fr. Engels, Russia is practically impregnable in defense due to its vast territory, harsh climate, off-road, lack of a center, the seizure of which would mark the outcome of the war, and a stable, passive population; However, when it comes to attacking, all these advantages turn into disadvantages: the vast territory makes it difficult to move and supply the army, the passivity of the population turns out to be lack of initiative and inertia, the lack of a center causes unrest. Such arguments are certainly not without logic and are based on knowledge of the history of the wars that Russia has waged, but F. Engels makes significant factual errors in them. So, he believes that Russia occupies a territory with “an exceptionally homogeneous racial population” [7, 16]. It is difficult to say for what reasons the thinker ignored the multinationality of the country's population: he simply did not possess such information or considered it irrelevant in this matter. In addition, F. Engels shows some limitations, saying that Russia is vulnerable only from Europe.


A poster dedicated to the XVIII Congress of the CPSU (b).

The founders of Marxism have a desire to belittle Russia's military successes and the significance of its victories. Thus, in presenting the history of the liberation of Russia from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, K. Marx does not mention in a word about the Kulikovo battle. According to him, “when the Tatar monster finally breathed its last, Ivan came to his deathbed, rather as a doctor who predicted death and used it to his advantage than as a warrior who delivered a death blow” [5]. Russia's participation in the wars with Napoleon is regarded by the classics of Marxism as the means for implementing Russia's aggressive plans, in particular, for dividing Germany. It remains without attention to the fact that the actions of the Russian army (in particular, the suicidal transition of the army led by Suvorov across the Alps) saved Austria and Prussia from complete defeat and conquest and were carried out just in their interests. Engels describes his vision of the anti-Napoleonic wars as follows: “Only those wars can arrange for her (Russia), when Russia's allies must bear the main burden, subject their territory, turned into a theater of military operations, to devastation and expose the greatest mass of fighters, while how Russian troops play the role of reserves, which spare the majority of battles, but which in all major battles have the honor of deciding the final outcome of the case; so it was in the 1813 — 1815 war ”[7, 16-17]. Even the 1812 campaign plan for the strategic retreat of the Russian army was developed, according to him, by the Prussian general Ful, and MB. Barclay de Tolly was the only general who did not succumb to futile and stupid panic and prevented attempts to save Moscow. Here there is a frank disregard for historical facts, which looks strange given the fact that K. Marx and F. Engels wrote a series of articles on this war for the American encyclopedia, referring to the memoirs of K.F. Tolya, who fought on the side of Russia. The hostility towards Russia is so great that the attitude to its participation in the anti-Napoleonic wars is expressed in a very offensive way: “Russians still boast that they have decided the fall of Napoleon with their countless troops” [2, 300].


And here are four of them. Now also Mao got close ...

Being a low opinion of Russia's military power, Russian diplomacy K. Marx and F. Engels considered it the strongest side, and foreign policy successes - the most important achievement on the world stage. Russia's foreign policy strategy (Pre-Peter the Great Russia, K. Marx calls Muscovy) grew up “in a terrible and vile school of Mongolian slavery” [5], which dictated certain methods of diplomacy. The Moscow princes, the founders of the new state, Ivan Kalita and Ivan III, adopted the Mongol-Tatar tactics of bribing, pretending, using the interests of some groups against others. They rubbed confidence in the Tatar khans, set them against their opponents, used the confrontation between the Golden Horde and the Crimean Khanate and the Novgorod boyars with the merchants and the poor population, the ambitions of the Pope to strengthen the secular power over the Orthodox Church. The prince “had to turn all the tricks of the lowest slavery into a system and apply this system with the patient persistence of a slave. Open force itself could enter the system of intrigue, bribery and hidden usurpation only as intrigue. He could not strike without first giving poison. He had one goal, and there were many ways to achieve it. To invade, using fraudulently hostile force, to weaken this force by precisely this use and, in the end, to overthrow it by means of the means created by itself ”[5].

Next, the Russian tsars actively used the legacy of the Moscow princes. In his work “The Foreign Policy of Russian Tsarism,” F. Engels described in detail, with a mixture of hostility and admiration, the most subtle diplomatic game played by Russian diplomacy in the era of Catherine II and Alexander I (although not forgetting to emphasize the German origin of all great diplomats). Russia, he said, remarkably played on the contradictions between the major European powers - England, France and Austria. It could interfere with impunity in the internal affairs of all countries under the pretext of protecting order and traditions (if it played into the hands of conservatives) or enlightenment (if it was necessary to make friends with the liberals). It was Russia during the American war of independence that for the first time formulated the principle of armed neutrality, subsequently actively used by diplomats of all countries (at that time this position weakened England’s maritime superiority). She actively used nationalist and religious rhetoric to expand her influence in the Ottoman Empire: she invaded her territory under the pretext of protecting the Slavs and the Orthodox Church, provoked uprisings of conquered peoples, which, in Fr. Engels, lived is not bad at all. At the same time, Russia was not afraid of defeat, since Turkey was a deliberately weak rival. Through bribes and diplomatic intrigues, Russia has long maintained the fragmentation of Germany and kept Prussia dependent. Perhaps this is one of the reasons for the dislike of Karl Marx and F. Engels for Russia. It was Russia, according to F. Engels, who erased Poland from the map of the world, giving it a part of Austria and Prussia. With this she killed two birds with one stone: liquidated a troubled neighbor and for a long time subjugated Austria and Prussia. “A piece of Poland was the bone that the queen threw to Prussia to make her sit quietly for a whole century on the Russian chain” [7, 23]. Thus, the thinker blames the blame for the destruction of Poland entirely on Russia, forgetting to mention the interest of Prussia and Austria.


"Holy Trinity" - lost two!

Russia, according to thinkers, is constantly nurturing aggressive plans. The aim of the Moscow princes was the subordination of the Russian lands, the life of Peter I - strengthening on the Baltic coast (which is why, according to Marx, he transferred the capital to the newly conquered lands), Catherine II and her heirs seek to seize Constantinople in order to control Black and part of the Mediterranean. To this, thinkers add aggressive wars in the Caucasus. Along with the expansion of economic influence, they see this policy as another goal. To maintain the royal power and the power of the nobility of Russia, constant foreign policy successes are needed, which create the illusion of a strong state and distract people from internal problems (thereby freeing the authorities from the need to solve them). A similar trend is characteristic of all countries, but K. Marx and F. Engels show it precisely on the example of Russia. In the critical heat of the moment, the founders of Marxism consider the facts somewhat one-sidedly. Thus, they greatly exaggerate rumors about the prosperity of Serbian peasants under the yoke of the Turks; they are silent about the danger that threatened Russia from Poland and Lithuania (by the 18th century these countries could not seriously threaten Russia, but they were still a constant source of unrest); They do not provide details of the life of the Caucasian peoples under Persian rule and ignore the fact that many of them, for example, Georgia, have asked Russia for help (perhaps they simply did not have this information).


Only one looks at the future shift. Two are completely uninteresting.

But the main reason for the negative attitude of K. Marx and F. Engels to the Russian Empire is its irreconcilable hatred of the revolution and progressive changes in society. This hatred is derived both from the very nature of despotic power and from the low level of development of society. In Russia, the struggle of despotism against freedom has a long history. Ivan III, according to Karl Marx, understood that the indispensable condition for the existence of a single strong Muscovy was the destruction of Russian liberties, and threw forces to fight against the remnants of republican power on the outskirts: in Novgorod, Poland, the Cossack republic (it’s not quite clear what in mind K. Marx, speaking of her). Therefore, he “broke the chains into which the Mongols chained Muscovy, only to entangle the Russian republics with them” [5]. Then Russia successfully benefited from the European revolutions: thanks to the French Revolution, it was able to subjugate Austria and Prussia and destroy Poland (Polish resistance distracted Russia from France and helped revolutionaries). The struggle against Napoleon, in which Russia played a decisive role, was also a struggle against revolutionary France; after victory, Russia gained the support of the restored monarchy. According to the same scheme, Russia acquired allies and expanded its sphere of influence after the 1848 revolutions. Having concluded the Sacred Union with Prussia and Austria, Russia became a stronghold of reaction in Europe.


Here's a funny trinity, isn't it? “We will drink to the fullest, our short eyelid, remove all the devilry from here and turn this liquid into pure water. Let there be water, drink gentlemen! ”

By suppressing revolutions in Europe, Russia is increasing its influence on its governments, eliminating potential danger to itself, and also distracting its own people from internal problems. If we take into account that K. Marx and F. Engels considered the socialist revolution to be the logical outcome of the development of Europe, it becomes clear why they believed that Russia interfered with the intervention of the natural course of development of European countries and for the victory the working party must fight not for life, but for death with Russian tsarism.

Speaking about the vision of Russia by K. Marx and F. Engels, it is necessary to note one more essential detail: the opposition of the government and the people. In any country, including Russia, the government very rarely defends the people's interests. Mongol-Tatar yoke contributed to the strengthening of the Moscow princes, but dried up the soul of the people. Peter I, “by transferring the capital, broke the natural ties that linked the system of seizures of the former Muscovite kings to the natural abilities and aspirations of the great Russian race. Placing his capital on the seashore, he threw openly to the anti-sea instincts of this race and reduced it to the position of simply a mass of his political mechanism ”[5]. Diplomatic games of the 18th and 19th centuries, which raised Russia to unprecedented power, were occupied by foreigners in the Russian service: Pozzo di Borgo, Liven, C.V. Nesselrode, A.Kh. Benkendorf, Medem, Meyendorf, etc. under the direction of the German Catherine II of her heirs. The Russian people, according to the founders of Marxism, are hardy, brave, steadfast, but passive, absorbed by private interests. Thanks to these properties of the people, the Russian army is invincible when the outcome of the battle is decided by the close masses. However, the mental stagnation of the people and the low level of development of society leads to the fact that the people do not have their own will and fully trust the legends that are spread by the authorities. “In the eyes of the vulgar-patriotic public, the glory of victories, one after another conquest, the power and external brilliance of tsarism, outweigh all his sins, all despotism, all injustice and arbitrariness” [7, 15]. This led to the fact that the Russian people, even resisting the injustice of the system, never rebelled against the tsar. Such passivity of the people is a necessary condition for a successful foreign policy based on conquest and suppression of progress.

However, later K. Marx and F. Engels came to the conclusion that after the defeat of Russia in the Crimean War, the people's outlook changed. The people began to be critical of the government, the intelligentsia contributed to the spread of revolutionary thoughts, industrial development was becoming increasingly important for foreign policy successes. Therefore, a revolution is possible in Russia at the end of the 19th century: in the preface to the Russian edition of the Communist Manifesto K. Marx and F. Engels call Russia the vanguard of the revolutionary movement in Europe. The thinkers do not deny that the revolution in Russia, due to the peculiarities of the country's development, will take place differently than it could have passed in Europe: due to the fact that most of the land in Russia is communally owned, the Russian revolution will be mainly peasant, and the community will become a cell new society. The Russian revolution will be a signal for revolutions in other European countries.


Also, the trinity is very famous at one time: “Do you have to go there, Comandante, go there?” “Go there, that's it!”

The socialist revolution will not only transform Russia, but will also substantially change the balance of power in Europe. F. Engels in 1890 indicates the existence in Europe of two military-political alliances: Russia with France and Germany with Austria and Italy. The union of Germany, Austria and Italy, he says, exists exclusively under the influence of the “Russian threat” in the Balkans and the Mediterranean. In case of liquidation of the tsarist regime in Russia, this threat will disappear, since Russia will switch to internal problems, aggressive Germany, left alone, will not dare to start a war. European countries will build new relationships based on partnership and progress. Such reasoning cannot be unconditionally accepted on faith. Friedrich Engels blames Russia for all the responsibility for the upcoming world war and ignores the desire of European countries to redistribute colonies outside Europe, because of which war would still become inevitable.


Here they are - the book mountains of the works of Marx and Engels. It is not surprising that the country did not have enough paper on the “Library of Adventures”.

Thus, in the views of Karl Marx and F. Engels can be traced duality in relation to Russia. On the one hand, they emphasize its dissimilarity with Europe and the negative role in the development of the West, on the other hand, their criticism is directed at the government, and not at the Russian people. In addition, the further course of Russian history forced the founders of Marxism to reconsider their attitude towards Russia and recognize its possible role in historical progress.

Использованная литература:
1. Berdyaev N.A. The origins and meaning of Russian communism // http://lib.ru/HRISTIAN/BERDQEW/duhi.txt
2. Engels F. Democratic Pan-Slavism // K. Marx and F. Engels. Writings 2 Edition. - M., State Publishing House of Political Literature. - 1962. - T. 6.
3. Marx K. On the social issue in Russia // K. Marx and F. Engels. Writings 2 Edition. - M., State Publishing House of Political Literature. - 1962. - T. 18.
4. Kotov V.N. K. Marx and F. Engels on Russia and the Russian people. -
Moscow, "Knowledge". - 1953 G. // http://www.biografia.ru/arhiv/orossii02.html
5. Marx K. Exposing the Diplomatic History of the XVIII Century // http://www.gumer.info/bibliotek_Buks/History/diplomat_history/index.php
6. K. Marx - Fr. Engels in Manchester // K. Marx and F. Engels. Writings 2 Edition. - M., State Publishing House of Political Literature. - 1962. - t.31.
7. Engels Fr. Foreign policy of the Russian Tsarism // K. Marx and F. Engels. Writings 2 Edition. - M., State Publishing House of Political Literature. - 1962. - T. 22.
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  1. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 14 November 2017 06: 39 New
    +7
    An article of such a level that it will be necessary to reread it more than once more. And, of course, refer to different sources. The topic of the article is important. Especially when you consider that those who studied after 1992 may not know anything about this from the word "completely".
    .You also need to read about the founders, because in speeches at a rally on November 7 in Moscow, dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the GREAT OCTOBER SOVIET SOCIALIST REVOLUTION, they were often quoted.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 14 November 2017 07: 40 New
      12
      Quote: Reptiloid
      .It is also necessary to read about the founders, because in speeches at a rally on November 7 in Moscow dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the GREAT OCTOBER SOVIET SOCIALIST REVOLUTION they were often quoted

      And how often do ukronazists quote them, finding from the "classics" FULL support and understanding that the Russians are evil Finno-Ugric Mongols who sought to rob and seize a democratic Europe, who do not know how to work and trade.

      And now these clinical Russophobes had monuments in ... Russian cities! belay request
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 14 November 2017 08: 41 New
        +8
        And I myself in a search engine asked a question about Russophobia even earlier ....
        So what? That was what our Soviet founders Lenin and Stalin were, to improve, revise and supplement and bring into line with our country.
        Science, progressive world teachings are being developed and applied, they are used regardless of the country, skin color and denomination.
        Just as in various countries slave-owning society was replaced by feudal, feudal - by capitalist, so too, capitalism will be replaced by socialism.
        Just as the change of the previous formations did not occur instantly, so the process of the formation of socialism will take time.
        1. Vend
          Vend 14 November 2017 09: 11 New
          +5
          Quote: Reptiloid
          And I myself in a search engine asked a question about Russophobia even earlier ....
          So what? That was what our Soviet founders Lenin and Stalin were, to improve, revise and supplement and bring into line with our country.

          There is an old saying "From d ... and you won’t make candy"!
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 14 November 2017 09: 37 New
            +6
            Quote: Wend
            There is an old saying "From d ... and you won’t make candy"!

            As demonstrated by the so-called liberal ideology as applied to Russia.
            They would have been silent ...
            1. Vend
              Vend 14 November 2017 09: 46 New
              +6
              Quote: badens1111
              Quote: Wend
              There is an old saying "From d ... and you won’t make candy"!

              As demonstrated by the so-called liberal ideology as applied to Russia.
              They would have been silent ...

              Once again, I don’t tell you what to do. You can indicate to your wife at home, although she will allow you. Unlike the 90's, Russia has changed very much for the better, in all respects. You do not want to notice this, you want to moan over a bygone era, your right. Resentment is not the baggage that is worth storing.
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 10: 22 New
                +9
                Quote: Wend
                Resentment is not the baggage that is worth storing.

                Start with yourself. And then tired of hearing your unworthy cries of bloody commies. Quasi-liberals are smooth-brained.
                1. Vend
                  Vend 14 November 2017 10: 55 New
                  +4
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Quote: Wend
                  Resentment is not the baggage that is worth storing.

                  Start with yourself. And then tired of hearing your unworthy cries of bloody commies.
                  Tired no one makes you listen.
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Quasi-liberals are smooth-brained.

                  I already understood your diagnosis, well, if you like to make it publicly your right.
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 12: 17 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Wend
                    Tired no one makes you listen

                    Where to get from you then? From every iron your screeches are only audible.
                    Quote: Wend
                    I already understood your diagnosis, well, if you like to make it publicly your right.

                    I do not like? Well, what can you do, you yourself have chosen to be like that.
                    1. Vend
                      Vend 14 November 2017 13: 27 New
                      +3
                      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                      Quote: Wend
                      Tired no one makes you listen

                      Where to get from you then? From every iron your screeches are only audible.
                      Quote: Wend
                      I already understood your diagnosis, well, if you like to make it publicly your right.

                      I do not like? Well, what can you do, you yourself have chosen to be like that.

                      And you are funny. I do not like RBC, but apparently they are right Russians' sympathies for Vladimir Lenin declined three times over the described period (from 67 to 26%).
                      Felix Dzerzhinsky also lost his former glory (from 45 to 16%)
                      Sympathies for Nicholas II and Admiral Kolchak, by contrast, have grown three to four times over the last 27 years (to 16 and 10%, respectively).

                      Read more at RBC:
                      http://www.rbc.ru/opinions/politics/09/11/2017/5a
                      03f8b39a79470ce66f1a01
                      Therefore, the shaking of the adherents of the red camp. Well, what does it mean that soon they will stop tearing Russia into two parts. And this is good.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 38 New
                        +5
                        What pleases you, sympathy for Kolchak, a war criminal? To the one that even our unworthy court could not justify under EBN? It’s sad.
                      2. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 14: 19 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Wend
                        Sympathies for Nicholas II and Admiral Kolchak, by contrast, have grown three to four times over the last 27 years (to 16 and 10%, respectively).

                        It is quite possible to believe it. Russia, she was always rich in stupid people. Here are just a few, well, like me, a little engaged in self-education and wiser over time. laughing And some, like you, have remained in the same condition. laughing Strictly speaking, the RBC through this survey recorded the degradation of our education and the effect of capitalist whitewashed propaganda. Well, all the worse for the paid propagandists, sooner or later their lies will be clarified anyway.
                      3. badens1111
                        badens1111 14 November 2017 15: 27 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Wend
                        Sympathy for Nicholas II and Admiral Kolchak, by contrast, have grown three to four times over the past 27 years

                        Among the audience of RBC? Well, yes, it is very significant.
                        But we have a different memory.
                        From Gulya’s recollection, “I walked to the main square. A whirlwind rushed about, a Tekinite was diving. A small white horse flew like a bullet, and then it jumped up, then fell, and then a raspberry Circus of Tekin hung up to the ground. The Tekin watched approvingly, they screamed noisily ... In the evening, in the presence of Kornilov, Alekseev and other generals, they buried ours killed in battle. There were three of them. Seventeen were wounded. There were 507 corpses in Lezhanka. "

                        What are 507 corpses for the village? That is, in Lezhenka, the Kornilovites actually slaughtered the entire male population - guilty and innocent. "And this is just a small episode of that war. There was a daily horror. The horror of Bely’s sadism.
                        https://cont.ws/@azazell04/767564
              2. badens1111
                badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 14 New
                +6
                Have you heard? The Department of Theology is open at MEPhI. The departments of alchemy, astrology, palmistry, and elephant studies are also planned. - And this is why? “They will study the elephants on which the flat Earth stands.”
                So about the "improvement", it is better to remain silent.
                The question is not insults, but a stupid interpretation of the ideas expressed by Marx, developed by Lenin and Stalin. On this basis, China has gone far, far from us, we are stamped in a swamp of nonsense of any kind of Chubais, Mau, Kudrin and Gref.
              3. Monarchist
                Monarchist 14 November 2017 13: 11 New
                +2
                I believe, here I agree with you 100%. Russia is no longer what it was under the EBN, then the last macaque in Africa considered itself superior to us. Then the Westerners regretted us squeamishly, like some kind of a visiting nag, and now even the Americans (reluctantly) admit: RUSSIA IS RETURNING FROM .... Where her dibirasts shoved
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 22 New
                  +3
                  Where is it, that is, Russia can return, without education, science, medicine?
            2. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 14 November 2017 13: 18 New
              +1
              Quote: badens1111
              Quote: Wend
              There is an old saying "From d ... and you won’t make candy"!

              As demonstrated by the so-called liberal ideology as applied to Russia.
              They would have been silent ...

              This is probably about the market, market economy, the Bologna system, the European development path, the entry of Krajina into the EU, and about some media figures ???
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 14 November 2017 14: 42 New
                +6
                Quote: Reptiloid
                It's probably about the market,

                Including, and besides, in the context of the article. Is it about Marx? Well then ...
                “Through all the scientific work of the two largest revolutionary thinkers in world history, the idea of ​​the equal rights of all peoples living on earth passes through red thread:“ Equality between nations is as necessary as equality between individuals ”(K. Marx, F. Engels, Soch., Vol. 39, p. 78. It is not without reason that Marx, who is now attributed to the national swagger of the German shopkeeper from the times of the Third Reich, in his introduction to Capital, noted in passing: “Every nation can and should learn from others” (K. Marx, F. Engels, Soch., V. 23, p. 10) Therefore, the statements that the creators of the new philosophical doctrine that turned the world, following his teacher Hegel continued to divide the peoples into "historical" and "unhistorical", bordering .... "
                This is the question of Russophobia Marx.http: //hrist-commun.narod.ru/rusofob.htm
                And so, all the fuss around these and others fits into the fuss that arranged for Yakovlev, Marx by Lenin, Stalin against Lenin, as a result of what they got?
                But they received, as A. Zinoviev said, “they aimed at communism, fell into Russia,” such a catastrophe that they held the current liberal talkers in the 90s, cleaner than the civilian coupled with Hitler’s invasion in their consequences.
                For example, the characteristic given to this figure by the “Westerner” Engels is simple and categorical: “Napoleon is the imaginary representative of the bourgeois revolution, but in reality he is a despot within his own country, a conqueror in relation to neighboring peoples” (Marx K. and Engels F. Soch. , v. XVI, part II, p. 404). However, it is not possible to hear screams in France as against Napoleon, despite the total defeat of France in the Napoleonic wars, not because of the characteristics given to him, because it accurately showed the essence of the actions of this great Frenchman of Corsican descent. us?
                And this entertaining conversation is worth reading.
                http://burevestn1k.livejournal.com/60805.html
                There, then, one very similar to the local ones, that mutters inarticulate about Marx in general and his teachings in particular, but each time he receives a club on the forehead.
                http://burevestn1k.livejournal.com/60805.html
          2. BMP-2
            BMP-2 14 November 2017 11: 21 New
            +5
            Quote: Wend
            "From d ... and you won’t make candy!"


            Well, I don’t know ... with Poroshenko - it turns out! yes
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 14 November 2017 19: 30 New
              +3
              Quote: BMP-2
              Quote: Wend
              "From d ... and you won’t make candy!"


              Well, I don’t know ... with Poroshenko - it turns out! yes

              Is it only him? And in our country, how many confectioners from this very candy are made! They themselves make fakes, they cry over them .....
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 10: 13 New
          +5
          Quote: Reptiloid And I myself in a search engine asked a question about Russophobia much earlier ....

          The search engine gives out different things. For example, this: Preface to the second Russian edition of the “Manifesto of the Communist Party”, 1882. “... next to the rapidly developing capitalist fever and only now emerging bourgeois land ownership, we find in Russia more than half of the land in the communal ownership of the peasants. The question now is: can the Russian community - this, however, already severely destroyed form of the primitive common ownership of land - directly go into a higher, communist form of common ownership? Or, on the contrary, must it first go through the same process of decomposition that is inherent in the historical development of the West?
          The only possible answer to this question at this time is as follows. If the Russian revolution is a signal of the proletarian revolution in the West, so that both of them complement each other, then modern Russian communal ownership of land can be the starting point of communist development. "
          Read in full: http://yablor.ru/blogs/chto-na-samom-dele-govoril
          -marks-o- / 5580434
          1. kalibr
            14 November 2017 10: 28 New
            +4
            And she supplemented in the end? The result was the widespread elimination of communal property, right?
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 14 November 2017 10: 37 New
              +7
              The community is closer to communist relations. In my opinion, K. Marx wanted to say this. And therefore, the communist ideas, quite, found a response in the peasant environment. Especially when it became something to compare. The rapid stratification of the village and the impoverishment of most of it at the beginning of the twentieth century made many remember that "they used to live better, in fairness." Therefore, collective farms, again, for the majority, did not become something unacceptable.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 14 November 2017 12: 14 New
                +2
                Quote: avva2012
                Therefore, collective farms, again, for the majority, did not become something unacceptable.

                You don’t know the history of your country: thousands of uprisings!
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 14 November 2017 12: 35 New
                  +4
                  Against who? What happened to you? You admitted that there were thousands of revolts against the landlords and the tsarist administration! Other times, I don’t know. Up to a dozen barely reach. Well, the truth is you! Here, I understand, a conscience woke up in a man.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 14 November 2017 12: 50 New
                    +1
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Against who? What happened to you? You admitted that there were thousands of revolts against the landlords and the tsarist administration! Other times, I don’t know. Up to a dozen barely reach. Well, the truth is you! Here, I understand, a conscience woke up in a man.

                    Quote: avva2012
                    Against who? What happened to you? You admitted that there were thousands of revolts against the landlords and the tsarist administration! Other times, I don’t know. Up to a dozen barely reach. Well, the truth is you! Here, I understand, a conscience woke up in a man.

                    And it’s not a shame to even write about your ignorance! Against COLLECTIVIZATION, comrade Avva!
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 23 New
                      +4
                      Thousands belay What planet is this?
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 14 November 2017 13: 50 New
                        0
                        obviously
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Thousands belay What planet is this?

                        What did you read about it. comrade? From books, documents? How much time did you spend to learn the History of the Homeland? A bit, judging by the answers. If you knew how you, imagining yourself a Soviet intellectual, look stupid.
                        There are thousands SOVIET documentsAt that time, they were published, I read them ("The Tragedy of the Village Conscience", 3 volumes), but you didn’t. Therefore, I have the right to assert, but you are not.
                      2. badens1111
                        badens1111 14 November 2017 17: 24 New
                        +3
                        Quote: avva2012
                        This is what planet

                        Et on the planet patented lies.
                        He has a link to these
                        V.P. Danilov, -famed for his work in attempts to disavow the actions of the power after 1922, frankly, the evidence is very, very crookedly drawn.
                        Robert Manning, - Approximately from 1962 - until 1964 - Manning began to work as assistant secretary of state for public relations, and when he left this post he was accepted as executive editor of the famous American journal Atlantic monthly.
                        Lynn Viola is a Canadian historian, read her work, here http://krotov.info/libr_min/03_v/il/a_2.htm
                        Even she, directly calls, kulak and bandit appearances.
                  2. Reptiloid
                    Reptiloid 14 November 2017 13: 29 New
                    +4
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Against who? What happened to you? You admitted that there were thousands of revolts against the landlords and the tsarist administration! Other times, I don’t know. Up to a dozen barely reach. .
                    Peasant uprisings have always been, even when the word administration has not yet been used. TOM is an example of the uprising of Stepan Razin under Alexei Tishayshem. So how many hundreds of years they continued and somehow the horror-bakers were not terrified!
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 54 New
                      +4
                      I think, according to Olgovich, and then the peasants rebelled against the Bolsheviks. Not against the monarchy, right?
                    2. Zheleznostop
                      Zheleznostop 15 November 2017 16: 36 New
                      0
                      The first were still Jews, let us recall the movement of the Mazdakites in Iran in the 5th century.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 15 November 2017 17: 34 New
                        0
                        Not bad, you thought, they threw Olgovich. Hope to see what happens.
            2. badens1111
              badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 17 New
              +4
              Quote: kalibr
              there has been widespread liquidation of community property

              In the West, yes, since the time of the enclosures, in Russia, this has been developed, the same collective farm, in Sweden, cooperatives. So you do not need to again cast a shadow over the wattle fence.
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich 14 November 2017 12: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: Reptiloid
          So what? That was what our Soviet founders Lenin and Stalin were, to improve, revise and supplement and bring into line with our country.

          Improve Russophobia? Yes, it did!
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 18 New
            +4
            Quote: Olgovich
            Improve Russophobia? Yes, it did!

            You are trying very hard to “improve and aggravate” the forms of Russophobia, it turns out crookedly, askably deceitfully, in general, everything is as always when you hide an ugly thing behind the lies in the past.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 14 November 2017 12: 51 New
              +2
              Quote: badens1111
              Quote: Olgovich
              Improve Russophobia? Yes, it did!

              You are trying very hard to “improve and aggravate” the forms of Russophobia, it turns out crookedly, askably deceitfully, in general, everything is as always when you hide an ugly thing behind the lies in the past.

              You are the first, comrade. badance! lol
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 15 November 2017 10: 59 New
              0
              Quote: badens1111
              Due to the lack of arguments, facts and education, you directly went to the attempts to insult your opponents, distorting their nicknames, dotting the site with emoticons as cave paintings?

              Against WHAT I could oppose with facts and arguments, if Comrade. IS-didn’t say -Nothing ?! What is the matter with you, comrade baden? belay fool lol
              If whose nickname when UNINTENTALLY distorted, I apologize for past and future mistakes. Alas, there is no co-rector for this.
              Smilies can not offend, for they are ALLOWED. If you are against them, write letters to .... The Reform League lol
              1. badens1111
                badens1111 15 November 2017 11: 22 New
                +2
                Quote: Olgovich
                Against WHAT I could oppose with facts and arguments,

                Do you have them, do you have them, conjectures and myths are not facts.
                Quote: Olgovich
                If whose nickname when UNINTENTALLY distorted, I apologize for past and future mistakes. Alas, there is no co-rector for this.

                I understand that in Moldova wine is sometimes instead of water, but not to the extent of an absolute loss of the ability to write, understand what is written.
                Quote: Olgovich
                Smilies can not offend, for they are ALLOWED. If you are against them, write letters to .... The Reform League

                Here, on three sheets of coated paper, applying a glass seal and write, they will understand you there.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 15 November 2017 12: 14 New
                  0
                  Quote: badens1111
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Against WHAT I could oppose with facts and arguments,
                  Do you have them, do you have them, speculations and myths are not facts

                  THIRD times I ask: WHAT to oppose, WHAT I "have no arguments if IS didn’t say ANYTHING? What is the matter with you, comrade baens? request lol
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 12: 21 New
            +4
            Quote: Olgovich
            Improve Russophobia? Yes, it did!

            Your Russophilia Moldavian comes down to only one thing, to eat, eat and eat. Under the Russian flag. What is it really worth, we saw in World War II, when you, such Russophiles, along with the Germans pinned down and raked in full.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 14 November 2017 12: 52 New
              +2
              Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
              Quote: Olgovich
              Improve Russophobia? Yes, it did!

              Your Russophilia Moldavian comes down to only one thing, to eat, eat and eat. Under the Russian flag. What is it really worth, we saw in World War II, when you, such Russophiles, along with the Germans pinned down and raked in full.

              What was it?! fool
              1. IS-80_RVGK2
                IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 13: 05 New
                +7
                Quote: Olgovich
                What was it?!

                Of course, I understand that feed is not in the horse, and monarchism is a diagnosis. But I’ll try to explain. You are poked in the face in your unpretentious nonsense.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 14 November 2017 13: 12 New
                  +1
                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  What was it?!

                  Of course, I understand that feed is not in the horse, and monarchism is a diagnosis. But I’ll try to explain. You are poked in the face in your unpretentious nonsense.

                  Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  What was it?!

                  Of course, I understand that feed is not in the horse, and monarchism is a diagnosis. But I’ll try to explain. You face poked into your unpretentious nonsense.

                  More specifically, Comrade IG, more specifically! And then, besides your um, lol physics, nothing is yet to be seen!
                  1. IS-80_RVGK2
                    IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 13: 55 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    More specifically, Comrade IG, more specifically! And then, besides your um, lol physics, nothing is visible yet!

                    Do not pretend to be more inadequate than you are.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 14 November 2017 14: 49 New
                      +1
                      Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      More specifically, Comrade IG, more specifically! And then, besides your um, lol physics, nothing is visible yet!

                      Do not pretend to be more inadequate than you are.

                      You don’t even have to pretend to be! fool
                      Is that all you were capable of? fool
                      1. badens1111
                        badens1111 14 November 2017 17: 36 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Is that all you were capable of?

                        Due to the lack of arguments, facts and education, you directly went to the attempts to insult your opponents, distorting their nicknames, dotting the site with emoticons as cave paintings?
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        Do not pretend to be more inadequate than you are.

                        they definitely put you ...
          3. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 14 November 2017 13: 44 New
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich

            Improve Russophobia? Yes, it did!

            TEACHING, Olgovich, recycle for our country !!!!!
            Do you have a sim card Modavian stoll? How dare you into a Chinese device? And you need to write in Chinese too. Or vice versa, use only Moldavian technologies and inventions. !!!!
        4. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 15 November 2017 18: 12 New
          0
          Quote: Reptiloid
          And I myself in a search engine asked a question about Russophobia even earlier ....
          So what? That was what our Soviet founders Lenin and Stalin were, to improve, revise and supplement and bring into line with our country.
          Science, progressive world teachings are being developed and applied, they are used regardless of the country, skin color and denomination.
          Just as in various countries slave-owning society was replaced by feudal, feudal - by capitalist, so too, capitalism will be replaced by socialism.
          Just as the change of the previous formations did not occur instantly, so the process of the formation of socialism will take time.

          You to Shpakovsky, Candidate count in your pocket.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 1 December 2017 13: 50 New
            0
            It is necessary to wear glasses and read, and then ask what is incomprehensible.
      2. dSK
        dSK 14 November 2017 08: 55 New
        +6
        Hello Andrey! Quote: "" Holy Trinity "- two lost!" What is not religion? What kind of god did they serve? And their faithful followers serve. hi
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 15 November 2017 18: 14 New
          0
          Quote: dsk
          Hello Andrey! Quote: "" Holy Trinity "- two lost!" What is not religion? What kind of god did they serve? And their faithful followers serve. hi

          Well, the gods are rich. They served one, you serve others, only don’t lift your nose that your god is cooler.
      3. kalibr
        14 November 2017 10: 16 New
        +2
        Then internationalism was valued above national interests. Then it was believed that it was better to send a batch of trucks to the cannibal in Africa, so that he drove them to the square on the dissent than to their native collective farms. As a result, friends and lyudoevs of a socialist orientation were lost, and their country was not saved from collapse.
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 20 New
          +5
          Quote: kalibr
          . Eventually

          Myth.
          America does not support favorable regimes for it. Including absolutely anti-human, such as ISIS now, trying to build the Caliphate, to all kinds of obscurantists in Saudi Arabia, for example?
          1. kalibr
            14 November 2017 16: 42 New
            0
            Supports! But we had other slogans and goals. Don’t bring prices to the temple with songs ... They could bring, now we can. But the USSR men had no moral right.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 14 November 2017 17: 43 New
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              But we had other slogans and goals.

              Others yes, in the sense of the structure of society in general, but unlike the United States, all the scum from the Nazis to the cannibals did not support.
              Immediately make a reservation, the myth of Bokass is not to offer.
              CAR President Francois Bozize signed a decree on the full rehabilitation of the former emperor. Bozize publicly commented on his decision during the meeting of the emperor's widow - Katerina. According to the president, Bokassa was a "great humanist", "a great son of the country, recognized by all as a great builder of the state." "He built the country, and we destroyed everything that he built," Bozize added, presenting one of the country's highest state awards to the widow
              http://pshvalov.livejournal.com/6391.html
              The crimes and cannibalism that are attributed to him is a myth born of Anglo-Saxon propaganda for the struggle against his eternal rival - the Soviet Union and its influence on the Black Continent, as well as France, which opposed them in the colonial struggle. It took the inhabitants of the Central African Republic 30 years of famine and continuous wars to understand this. How much more will you and I need for this?
              1. kalibr
                15 November 2017 12: 05 New
                0
                That is, do you want me to believe in a "live journal" in which the article does not contain a single reference to foreign sources? That's when I read about it in the journal "Questions of History" - then. Still, people without a historical education are naive, whatever you say. I already wrote to you, I myself make such and similar materials and I know how they are made ... So this is not a source!
    2. Whispering in the night
      Whispering in the night 14 November 2017 08: 44 New
      +4
      Quote: Reptiloid
      The topic of the article is important. Especially when you consider that those who studied after 1992 may not know anything about this from the word "completely".

      And in my opinion, the topic of the statements of these characters about Russia and Russians is not important at all, because practically no one in modern Russia is given these classics or their statements from the word at all.
      1. kalibr
        14 November 2017 08: 56 New
        +2
        If ... You look at the comments on some articles here on VO. People violently cling to their idols, not noticing that the street has been the 1st century. Let them know ...
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 21 New
          +7
          Quote: kalibr
          If only ...

          With what fright, in the West are they carefully studying the legacy of Marx and Engels, and not only that?
          You did not study, do not understand and did not accept, for various reasons .. but the result of your fuss, Messrs. Intellectuals, was the collapse of the country in 90.
          1. kalibr
            14 November 2017 16: 47 New
            +2
            I already asked you, but you did not answer: at that time, where were you when the fuss ruined everything? Dummy sucked? Played the napkins? On Mars? Why not interfere? And Now ... is this scribbling from the dugout of the partisan detachment "Back to the USSR"? And do you get money by trading from the garden, not accepting the bloody money of the Kremlin junta that oppresses the people of the bourgeois system? Or does one interfere with the other?
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 14 November 2017 17: 48 New
              +5
              Quote: kalibr
              Where were you at this time when the fuss ruined everything? Dummy sucked? Played the napkins? On Mars?

              I repeat for those who did not understand, he was saving you so that the infection of Wahhabism would not come to you in penza.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 14 November 2017 22: 54 New
                +3
                The first Chechen? Or even earlier?
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 14 November 2017 22: 59 New
                  +5
                  A little earlier.
              2. kalibr
                15 November 2017 11: 56 New
                0
                Finally, at least something. Well, each of us has done and is doing something for the country. You shed your blood, someone strained your mind. This is who chose what career. But then why was it difficult to write about it right away? Some kind of children's games in military secret.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 November 2017 23: 05 New
            +4
            And looking at the picture is enough. Depardieu would have also made a revolution.
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 14 November 2017 09: 03 New
        +6
        Quote: Whispering in the night
        these classics, nor their statements are no longer interesting from the word at all.
        This is the result of a large, focused work by the enemies of the USSR. It’s good that not everyone thinks so. In the store I saw 5 volumes of LENIN, to my shame I also thought and postponed the purchase until tomorrow. And tomorrow they weren’t !!!!
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 14 November 2017 11: 04 New
          +5
          This is the result of a large, focused work by the enemies of the USSR. It’s good that not everyone thinks so.

          this is the result of propaganda in the late Soviet era. People were so often reminded of "Marx, Engels and other Kautsky" that it turned them away from the "classics" subconsciously. And they will be even more uninteresting to young people. Why? Because people are young. Have you read Ilf and Petrov, Dmitry? There is a wonderful feuilleton "Laughing Unit". Like any sound idea, you can bring it to the point of absurdity. http://ilf-petrov.ru/books/item/f00/s00/z0000006/
          st041.shtml
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 26 New
            +5
            Colleague, watch a movie, SLEEPING ... very much will become clear ... No wonder the whole liberal audience howled upon seeing this film.
            So, on a vantage point, all the characters shown there, EVERYTHING, one way or another, were trained in the USA, they all belong to liberal-chattering talkers, and the result of their work is perfectly shown in the film. would not appear as a warning to all this corrupt fraternity. In addition, what is shown does not cause a sensation of fiction, everything is visible in everyday life.
            http://noviyfilm.me/news/serial_spjashhie_1_2_3_s
            erija_2017_smotret_online_354/2017-10-20-3926
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 14 November 2017 12: 39 New
              +2
              liberal liberal talkers, and the result of their work is perfectly shown in the film.

              our beautiful-hearted talkers in '91 were homegrown, without any preparation in the States. That is, not everything was smooth in our kingdom. request
              if applied to tsarist Russia, then Lenin and Trotsky can be called the same talkers.
              All revolutions are made only when external factors of pressure (war, intrigue, upbringing of the “fifth column”, etc.) coincide with internal ones (discontent, reduced life, unmet needs). And if about the actions of enemies we are more or less now we guess, then our own mistakes related to propaganda-living standards-industrial development-management levels and their relationship with public opinion must be taken into account! hi
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 15 November 2017 02: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: Reptiloid
          In the store I saw 5 volumes of LENIN, to my shame I also thought and postponed the purchase until tomorrow. And tomorrow they weren’t !!!!

          Dear comrade, do not be discouraged, all volumes of the complete works (5th edition) V.I. Lenin can be downloaded from the site:
          http://www.vkpb.ru/index.php/biblioteka
          There is also the complete works of K. Marx and F. Engels.
    3. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 09: 51 New
      +4
      Dmitry, an article of such a level that there is no need to read it at all. If you need to read its primary sources, that is, such a forum: Sarkel.ru, there are all the myths, which are described in more detail, in this article, just a scrap. Do not forget who our master of reprints is.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 14 November 2017 10: 15 New
        +4
        Maybe you’re right, Alexander. You have a wealth of knowledge accumulated over many years. Like other forum users. Therefore, the attitude may be different. I already wrote once that the real “bearers” of “socialist culture and ideology have greatly decreased compared to the time of the 50th anniversary of the GREAT OCTOBER SOVIET SOCIALIST REVOLUTION. Do not get anywhere from this
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 10: 27 New
          +5
          Dmitry, you watched a rally dedicated to the 100 anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution. Judging by the people who arrived, the “carriers” of socialist culture did not decrease, but increased, precisely at the expense of the young. And who is “real”, old or young, is not a fact. Vaughn Shpakovsky, also not young.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 14 November 2017 10: 49 New
            +3
            There is the expression "native speakers". It means that a person was born, grew up in that country and since childhood spoke this language. 25 years of turmoil that began with "shock therapy" .. The carriers are those who passed the Lenin standings and did not betray the idea of ​​socialism-communism during the difficult times of trouble. These are my conclusions. And the youth? This is a study of works contrary to the system ..
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 14 November 2017 11: 11 New
              +3
              So, we had to rethink everything that once surrendered by offsets. Many of us did not value what we had. And for young people, now it’s both easier and more complicated. The simplest thing is that society itself pushes to rejection of what is more difficult, in that they were brought up in a different culture on a different scale of values. I nevertheless believe that in us, the inhabitants of this country, there lives an indestructible desire for justice. And what could be fairer, "to each according to his ability, to each according to his work"?
            2. badens1111
              badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 31 New
              +4
              Quote: Reptiloid
              These are my conclusions.

              A survey of the Public Opinion Foundation showed 35% of Russian citizens believe that a “new October Revolution” could happen in the country.
              It is reported by Kommersant. The publication refers to the results of a opinion poll prepared by the Public Opinion Foundation.

              The conviction of this part of the Russians that a new revolution, comparable with the events of 1917, is possible, is based on dissatisfaction with the authorities, low living standards, unemployment and corruption. However, 46% of citizens are convinced that revolution will not happen. Some are convinced that the authorities will not allow rioting. So said 9% of respondents. Another 19% of citizens could not answer the question of whether a repeat of the revolution is really possible.
              Isn’t this why vanities and panic in the liberal camp?
              1. kalibr
                14 November 2017 16: 53 New
                0
                What to worry about? All the Penza communists and supporters of the idea are either selling types or cowards ... I can specifically write about each. And the "people" - this grass is swaying by the wind. Tomorrow they will report that a meteorite is flying, that the third world is about to begin, that Ebola appeared in Europe and Russia and ... the unity of the people is ensured. The need for a single leadership will jump to heaven and everyone will agree with everything and everything.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 14 November 2017 17: 12 New
                  +3
                  Whatever a person says, he always speaks to himself. And about the people, and about the people.
                2. Romans
                  Romans 15 November 2017 15: 27 New
                  +2
                  There was one brave man - Ilyukhin, got involved in a lawsuit with Putin himself! Bottom line: he died a little from a heart attack in the middle of the trial, just when the most interesting part about the St. Petersburg career period of our great GDP began.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 15 November 2017 15: 49 New
                    0
                    What can you do, a person is not just mortal, and sometimes suddenly.
          2. Whispering in the night
            Whispering in the night 14 November 2017 19: 38 New
            +2
            Quote: avva2012
            You watched a rally dedicated to the 100th anniversary of the Great October Socialist Revolution. Judging by the people who arrived, the “carriers” of socialist culture did not decrease, but increased, precisely at the expense of the young.


            And what happened there so interesting, at that rally? As far as I know, in Moscow on November 7, about one thousand people attended a rally of communists, for comparison - almost 80 thousand came to the recent friendly football match Russia-Argentina.
    4. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 15 November 2017 18: 10 New
      0
      Quote: Reptiloid
      An article of such a level that it will be necessary to reread it more than once more. And, of course, refer to different sources. The topic of the article is important. Especially when you consider that those who studied after 1992 may not know anything about this from the word "completely".

      Well, read more on the fence, there is also something you don’t know. And it may turn out to be "archie is important!"
    5. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 26 November 2017 20: 26 New
      +1
      Dear Reptiloid, this article is not worth your attention, it is another insinuation on the topic of “hatred” of K. Marx and F. Engels towards Russia, towards the Russians, to the Slavs, who they allegedly ranked among the counter-revolutionary peoples, and which should be almost destroyed.
      However, these assertions, based on crippled quotes about Russian barbarians, wild Tatars and weak-willed Czechs outside of any historical context and outside of logic, collapse miserably, it is only worth considering this issue more seriously.
      All quotes about Russia given in the article were taken by the authors mainly from works written by K. Marx and F. Engels immediately after the defeat of the 1848 revolution, which spread throughout Europe. It did not affect only distant and isolated historical spaces, such as Sweden or Greece, and the backward periphery of the Russian and Ottoman empires.
      It was a real world revolution, but it was suppressed by the European reaction, which, starting from the Vienna Congress of 1815, was based on the union of Russia, Prussia and Austria.
      .Therefore, K. Marx wrote that the revolution in Europe cannot win without destroying the Prussian and Austrian police states, and this goal will remain unattainable until the power of the Russian Tsar is defeated. Didn’t Nicholas I offer his army to the Prussian prince in 1848 to suppress the revolution? Didn’t Nicholas I strangle the Hungarian revolution in 1849?

      Engels writes that “Within one month, all the nations ripened for revolution made a revolution; all not ripe for revolution - united against it ”
      Op. t.6, p. 301
      The first are Germans, Hungarians and Poles; and the second - the Slavs, Romanians and Transylvanians. The former actively influenced history, and therefore they are revolutionary. For the past two centuries, history has been entailing against their will and they have to perish in the storm of world revolution, therefore they are counter-revolutionary.
      Op. t. 6, pp. 175–186
      But further Engels writes: “The above does not apply to Russia; the Russians are counter-revolutionary temporarily ”
      Op. t. 6, p. 294.
      After the abolition of serfdom, which ruined both peasants and nobles, Engels also considered Russia as a country that in the near future will play the most important role.
      “If a revolution begins in Russia, the scenes of 1793 will turn pale and the face of all of Europe will change. Old Russia was still a huge reserve army of European reaction; she acted as such in 1798, 1805, 1815, 1830, 1848. And when the revolution in Russia destroys this reserve army of reaction - then we’ll see how things turn out ”
      Op. t. 19, pp. 123–124
      After the assassination of Alexander II, Marx and Engels assumed that after a long and fierce struggle, the matter would come to the Russian Commune, and in 1882 they directly declared Russia the forefront of the revolutionary movement in Europe
      (Op. T. 19, p. 252, 305).
      What is the one prediction of K. Marx, made in 1877 that the revolution in Russia will break the backbone of united European despotism, liberate Germany from Prussia, and the small Slavic peoples of Austria from the reactionary dreams of pan-Slavism. And the European labor movement should and will only welcome such a course of affairs. (Op. T. 19, p. 146).
      And so it happened: only after the revolutionary destruction of tsarism in Russia, the Czechs and Slovaks, as well as Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, were able to build their own states.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 28 November 2017 17: 26 New
        0
        Thank you very much for the great detailed commentary, Alexander! I just saw it now. I’ll read it more than once. BUT now, in my opinion, the time when ideas, scientific discoveries, are used regardless of who first proposed, invented. An example is the states, e. in relation to the Russian Federation and much more.
        It just happened that there was a huge break in the study of such sciences, and during this time, destructive processes took place in the public consciousness, which is what we all see.
        Best regards
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 1 December 2017 13: 40 New
        0
        Repeatedly read this your comment, Alexander (as well as the one below). I am glad that I learned all this information from you! I explain why I didn’t care whether anyone was Russophobe or not. I consider it normal to use any achievements of both political and ideological opponents. There are examples of industrial espionage. Also since ancient times it has been. And now the most important example is the presence of nuclear weapons in Russia, when the enemies of the USSR (Werner von Braun, etc.) invented the atomic bomb for the first time to destroy the USSR, and now the peaceful atom serves Russia, and the nuclear shield BEFORE NOW TIME successfully protects her and her interests !!! Thanks again for your comments. Recently, I’ve been listening to the plots of Elena Prudnikova and Elena Syanova, which I wish everyone! I wanted to buy books by Elena Syanova --- it didn’t work out. Sadness. All bought up! But Elena Prudnikova now I will order --- while they are still there !!! Sincerely.
  2. Rotmistr
    Rotmistr 14 November 2017 06: 44 New
    22
    thinking without knowledge is completely useless, and, above all, to those who comment on someone else’s materials only on the basis of what he thinks. That is, the key to success in any business is knowledge.

    To the root as they say
    It is especially funny when reflections are built on old cliches in the absence of factual knowledge on the merits of the issue.
    You don’t have to go far for an illustration
    F. Engels in 1890 marks the existence in Europe of two military-political alliances: Russia with France and Germany with Austria and Italy. The union of Germany, Austria and Italy exists, he said, exclusively under the influence of the “Russian threat” in the Balkans and the Mediterranean Sea.

    It was precisely the creation of the Entente that was a reaction to the building up of the Triple Alliance, as well as to the strengthening of Germany and at the same time an attempt to prevent German hegemony on the European continent.
    Interestingly
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 14 November 2017 07: 02 New
      +5
      The topic of reflection is interesting in that the processes of "thinking" and the accumulation of knowledge in different people occur in different ways. Moreover, a person may not accept some information due to his personal qualities and experience of the previous one. There is crowding out, maybe, "forgetting" ".....
      In short, are we talking about processes in brain neurons? Without the DOCTOR ---- no way. !!!!!
      About the personal. In the light of the preface. Eugene once wrote: "" Dima thinks ..... "" This terrified me !!!!! I don’t notice how I think, or maybe it seems to me that I don’t think at all, but I just react ...... Horror!
      1. dSK
        dSK 14 November 2017 08: 47 New
        +5
        Hello Dmitry! A brilliant mind with a “murdered” conscience in whose embrace it will lead? "A large cupboard and falling louder." An evil genius can do a lot of trouble. hi
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 14 November 2017 09: 05 New
          +2
          Hello and you !!!!!!
          Quote: dsk
          An evil genius can do a lot of trouble. hi

          Without helpers can not cope.
          1. dSK
            dSK 14 November 2017 09: 12 New
            +5
            Look in the mirror, (at your "avatar.") hi
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 14 November 2017 10: 05 New
              +3
              Ha ha ha !!!!!! I was surprised to learn that people really believe in reptilians and are afraid of them! But for some girls, reptilians are very interesting !!!!!!
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 14 November 2017 11: 15 New
                +5
                people really believe in reptilians and are afraid of them!

                I believe completely! fellow Moreover, I often clearly see one Reptiloid on the site, and even communicate with it. drinks If the Doctor sees him, then this is not schizophrenia! wink
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 14 November 2017 11: 26 New
                  +4
                  Or two? Although, there is an authoritative opinion that only everyone gets the flu together, and they go crazy alone wassat Ah, the reptiloid on our site, good, everyone would be human
                  1. Mikado
                    Mikado 14 November 2017 11: 38 New
                    +5
                    Ah, the reptiloid on our site is good

                    great! drinks
                    that they only get the flu all together

                    not only flu what but in psychiatry you are completely righthi
                    1. 3x3zsave
                      3x3zsave 14 November 2017 23: 08 New
                      +3
                      Guys, this is a neurovirus! Well, if it were alder cones, it would be well-fed, otherwise it would be on binary code. I’m telling you as a specialist in cyber punk.
                      1. Mikado
                        Mikado 16 November 2017 21: 06 New
                        +1
                        Guys, this is a neurovirus!

                        Dmitry Reptiloid - a neurovirus ?? belay and I communicate with him .. belay : how scary to live! laughing drinks
              2. kalibr
                14 November 2017 11: 26 New
                +1
                Dmitry, I’m somehow going away from classes, a student and a student are in front of me ... She told him: Do you know that the aliens have flown to the ground, have taken our shape and live among us?
                He told her: Yes, long ago. Who does not know this!
                The world belongs to the young!
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 33 New
                  +4
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The world belongs to the young!

                  Yes, but this does not mean that the world will belong to such a poor and illiterate, although our system of uneducation is trying hard in this direction, with the Bologna system imposed on the country from 90 ..
                  1. kalibr
                    14 November 2017 16: 54 New
                    +1
                    So that they will not believe in green men.
        2. kalibr
          14 November 2017 11: 31 New
          +2
          This was well written by Pitirim Sorokin (well, the same one) in his work “The Crisis of Our Time”.
  3. moskowit
    moskowit 14 November 2017 06: 55 New
    +7
    And here are four of them. Now also Mao got close ...

    Mao considered himself the fifth ....
    And so, everything is correct ... Europe sincerely hates Russia!
  4. Amurets
    Amurets 14 November 2017 07: 04 New
    +4
    And here are four of them. Now also Mao got close ...

    Such posters could be seen on the opposite bank of the Amur River in China. Then, in the late 50s, 60s, opposite Blagoveshchensk, there was a settlement that was difficult to call a city. Tolley Manchu Sakhalyan, Toli Chinese Heihe, built up with approximately such buildings. It is now a fairly large city of Heihe.

    Plentifully decorated portraits of both the founders of Marxism-Leninism and portraits of Mao and Stalin
    By the way, in some places, on the outskirts of Heihe, such shacks can still be seen.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 14 November 2017 12: 34 New
      +3
      Quote: Amurets
      By the way, in some places, on the outskirts of Heihe, such shacks can still be seen.

      Haha ... exactly where, and here, EVERYWHERE, except for Moscow, St. Petersburg, and even a couple of three cities.
      We will hang up posters - Chubais, Mau, Kudrin and Sobchak, is ours all?
  5. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 14 November 2017 07: 40 New
    +9
    It looks like the Tagged Kreuztsuzov treats with lemonade. Richard nevermind, but Depardieu was skewed. This drunk without a bottle and a day will not live, but here - here you are, dry law. Probably Raiska is somewhere nearby.
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 14 November 2017 07: 52 New
    +5
    Nosovsky and Fomenko went further than Marx and Engels, if the latter had a dual attitude to the history of Russia .. For the first time, they just put everything upside down ...
  7. Boris55
    Boris55 14 November 2017 08: 30 New
    +3
    I’ll also invest my five cents.
    “In 1882, Engels confessed to Kautsky:“ Could you ask me if I really don’t have any sympathy for the Slavic peoples? In fact, it’s a hell of a little. ”And here’s another startling confession from Comrade Engels:“ A merciless struggle is not for life, but to death with Slavic treacherous in relation to the revolution ... - a war of extermination and unbridled terror. "
    In 1865, while proposing to the London Conference a draft outline of the program for the Geneva Congress of the International (International Workers' Fellowship), Marx in all section III, “International Politics,” left only one question: “On the need to destroy Muscovite influence in Europe by exercising the right of nations to self-determination and restoration of Poland on a democratic and social basis. ” Thus, the right of nations to self-determination is only for Poland, and not for its sake, but as a means of "destroying Muscovite influence in Europe" "
  8. baudolino
    baudolino 14 November 2017 08: 44 New
    +2
    Marx was a newspaperman. From this lived. And most of his work is in newspaper format. And for a newspaper article, we needed bright, catchy material, but by no means objective. Such scribblers are enough now, but not everyone is exalted to the throne of Marxism.
  9. Dzmicer
    Dzmicer 14 November 2017 08: 45 New
    +4

    Do not be like Mark Sism.
  10. kalibr
    14 November 2017 08: 59 New
    +3
    Quote: Reptiloid
    Just as the change of the previous formations did not occur instantly, so the process of the formation of socialism will take time.

    Dear Dmitry, there was such a companion of V.I. Lenin Alexander Bogdanov and so in 1908 he wrote a science fiction novel "Red Star". All literary scholars agree - it was written for the sake of just one paragraph. You read, maybe find him ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 14 November 2017 09: 12 New
      +2
      Yes, dear Vyacheslav, there seems to be a modern edition, a pocket one, such as the one from the Soviet adventure literature. I read about this novel and about other works by the same author, there are a lot of them on the net.
      But will I find this paragraph, but will I recognize it .....
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 14 November 2017 11: 05 New
        +3
        According to Bogdanov, there are objective laws of the development of society, wherever it exists. Probably, the necessary paragraph will appear on this subject, as well as the difficulties of achievement. It is interesting how the Russian people of that time, the beginning of the century, imagined the Cosmos!
        .Not yet to order!
        1. kalibr
          14 November 2017 11: 24 New
          +1
          You do not guess, but read ... there is no need to guess!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 14 November 2017 11: 59 New
            +3
            Everyone can have their own vision of the right. You didn’t give the names of the writers, what are they, what ideas do they support. But you yourself had the expression ---- ““ everything means nobody. ”So I’m not guessing, but guessing! I recall how you wrote about your foresight more than once, but somehow no one fixed it !.
            1. kalibr
              14 November 2017 12: 11 New
              +1
              That's right, but this is a comment, not an article. Read, I can only say one thing ...
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. free
    free 14 November 2017 09: 20 New
    +2
    Does everything you have written mean that the ideas of “equality, fraternity, justice” are fundamentally wrong / not suitable for Russia?
  13. avva2012
    avva2012 14 November 2017 09: 31 New
    +7
    Well, finally, the feathers reached K. Marx and F. Engels. We had destanization, then delenization, now the next stage. Do not remember how the first two ended? Dmitry wrote about the fact that "I wanted to buy a five-volume V.I. Lenin, and the next day, he was gone." Portraits I.V. Stalin on what just do not print. His works are being studied. I think, through your efforts, you will expand on the founders of communism even more. Vyacheslav Olegovich, are you by any chance not a full-time employee? bully What rank, really, go? Could you give me an old star or not?
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 14 November 2017 13: 55 New
      +5
      What I noticed in life, the most ardent anti-communists, former lecturers and propagandists, and especially people who taught the history of the CPSU. I have two books, of the same author, about the Kronstadt rebellion, the first one was published, God forbid, memory in the late 70s of the past centuries, the second one in 2007 or 2010 .., I don’t remember now .. But the first one is written in the style, "youth threw us on Kronstadt ice", the second one "how delightful evenings are in Russia" .. The first one simply turns the rebel sailors inside out, here what bad, second, ah, sorry for the poor sailors .. The author is the same and such different views on the same events ... over time ... And there is an explanation for this. The situation is called .. And I am always for those who win .... The country decides to build socialism again, so those who scolded it will be the first to gnaw their throats to those who doubt the correctness of the chosen path ... First, Ave Caesar shout, and then they poke knives into it ...
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 14 November 2017 14: 56 New
        +3
        That under socialism there are those who are not fit for anything, that under capitalism. As you know, ..... say no bags tossing and turning. What to say about them, lived, lived, and then died. A curtain.
        1. parusnik
          parusnik 14 November 2017 15: 20 New
          +4
          It’s as usual ...
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 14 November 2017 15: 40 New
            +3
            But, as usual, a lot of time aaaaa, many people. Straight, what mania, the more the better. And the printed word fits perfectly.
            1. parusnik
              parusnik 14 November 2017 15: 43 New
              +2
              Already so bequeathed: Burn verb .. here's the harness ....
              1. avva2012
                avva2012 14 November 2017 16: 35 New
                +1
                Before, them, and now they are us.
  14. bober1982
    bober1982 14 November 2017 09: 48 New
    +3
    Marx was engaged in poetry in his youth, his lines are well known ........hellish fumes rise and fill my brain ......, and further in the same spirit, from a young age he was fond of satanism.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 10: 05 New
      +7
      This is not the "history" section of VO, but some obscurantist sabbath. We have deputy P, now for Chumak’s place, is he charging his heads?
  15. kalibr
    14 November 2017 10: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: avva2012
    What rank, really, go? Could you give me an old star or not?

    Do not, doctor, write nonsense - let's agree on the future? You still write about the English spy. And instructions from London. It is possible that this is humor, but it is very flat. If you are trying to "annoy" me in this way, then I already wrote to you that it is useless. The difference between us is too obvious. So if you have something to say specifically - please, but no - leave your humor for your patients.
    And again - have I ever written what I am for limiting knowledge? How many times have I sent you to professional magazines? He wrote that knowledge does not belong to people, but to God. That is, when people get to know something on their own - that's good. Are there links to work? Yes, this is not Samsonov, is it? And let them read, let them come to their conclusions. Agree that if it’s PR, then PR is good.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 10: 20 New
      +7
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, and let's give without? What should I do and what to write, I myself will decide somehow. And what you and your kind have done to popularize the ideas of communism deserves the Order of Lenin “with a tractor,” because, as a tireless worker, you work tirelessly on this field. And if you don’t like my humor, then watch the programs with Petrosyan, there it is more accessible.
      1. kalibr
        14 November 2017 11: 22 New
        +1
        However, it kicks you aside, and ... "more accessible" right away. You don’t like it when they tell you, but you yourself indicate what should I watch? How so? You can tell me, you can’t ... Double standards. Not good. And regarding popularization ... Lenin also wrote that the masses should know everything and judge everything consciously. I think so too.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 12: 47 New
          +3
          I don’t understand, didn’t you like my humor or, wasn’t that humor for you at all? belay laughingcomrade senior lieutenant
          1. kalibr
            14 November 2017 16: 58 New
            0
            I’m asking you, but you don’t answer ... About the fact that you are doing what you reproach me with. You can not do it this way. Impolite. And why did you stick such a title to me, I am happy with mine, my civilian-candidate of historical sciences, associate professor.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 14 November 2017 17: 27 New
              +3
              Here, I read, I’m all yours / not yours, opuses, and purely for the sake of research, I’m waiting for the bottom to appear. Can not see. It is clear that you are in the trend, as they say now. As soon as another anti-Soviet sunset shines on the horizon, you, here, like here. What, you still have to say? Congratulations. The next masses spilled out. I look forward to continuing. And about the title, come on, be without a title. Does it matter?
              1. kalibr
                14 November 2017 18: 57 New
                0
                There will be no bottom, doctor, it’s boring to write all the time about armor, moreover, periodically you need to give information for a variety of target audiences. In the modern information society, this is important; everything else is not. Today he published the next textbook “PR-Design and PR-Promotion” for masters. There are also materials tested at VO. In a year, the textbook "Public Opinion Management Technologies" will be completed. We will also have a lot from the experience of VO ... But now, what can I tell you right now, and it will be easy for you to check it. The number of views of articles about the revolution is much less than about the same Bronze Age or knightly armor. Name is not written at first, to find out that the article is difficult. The names are enticing. But compare with the number of views of other materials - there is a skirmish and funny picks, and still few people. There ... sometimes there are few comments, but many clicks. Here it is the other way around - the comments are full and basically the same one is blaspheming each other. It will catch your eye, and I will calculate in great detail with%. What is this talking about? That people all these revolutions and leaders osto .... and they began to appreciate very different - more interesting and useful information. And no more. Society is becoming normal and this is my merit.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 14 November 2017 19: 28 New
                  +4
                  DO NOT .. don’t convince .. THE SLEEPING FILM, hmm, convinces somehow more who and how plows on whom.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Society is becoming normal and this is my merit.

                  Mistake, do you think that you are building the “normal” from your point of view, and reality shows that, among other things, thanks to you, it is generally very far from normal, since there are screaming and all sorts of Berkovs, dogs and other Polonsky, this is your product, is not it?
                  Creative so to speak ... youth ...
                  Quote: kalibr
                  That people all these revolutions and leaders osto .... and they began to appreciate very different - more interesting and useful information.

                  And here you are somewhat repainting the situation. People somehow care more and more why their life, in spite of admonitions like yours, does not improve at all, rather the time comes for uncertainty, so to speak, which worries a considerable number of people.
                  Quote: kalibr
                  “In the eyes of the vulgar-patriotic public, the glory of victories, successive conquests, the power and external brilliance of tsarism outweigh all its sins, all despotism, all injustice and arbitrariness” [7, 15]. Very relevant today, right? Only "tsarism" is thrown out and inserted about the holy USSR.

                  Well, my friend, you lied .. here is a hundred-percent tracing-paper from the situation, not even with us, but in the USA.
                  And it will sound like this in an arrangement - ““ In the eyes of the vulgar-patriotic public, the glory of victories, the successes following one another, the power and external brilliance of the USA, outweigh all its sins, all despotism, all injustice and arbitrariness ”= for consumption inside USA, where the entrance screams, such as hail on a hill, an exceptional nation and other similar idle talk.
                  1. kalibr
                    14 November 2017 20: 45 New
                    0
                    Well, they have reason for this. Where in the world are they and where are we. Who goes to them and who comes to us ... And the number of views of articles on which topics you can see for yourself. And my opinion in this case is more important than yours. You try only in high school, my whole country reads my articles and books, and students study in textbooks in many universities. How I manage you using the "crooked source" method I wrote to you. And everyone sees that I’m not hiding behind a nickname, and when I asked you to introduce myself, did you answer me in PM? This is cowardice, elementary cowardice, and cowardice with high ideals is incompatible.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 14 November 2017 21: 32 New
                      +4
                      Again rushing snobbery, mine, mine, are higher than yours .. yes all this fuss vanishes your fuss and scribble
                      Quote: kalibr
                      and students study in textbooks in many universities

                      And this is all narcissism, everything goes on and your textbooks a year or two and may end up in a landfill
                      Quote: kalibr
                      How you are controlled using the "crooked source" method I already wrote to you.

                      The "curved mirror" method ... well, I'm sorry, but you use this method, I do not belong to the number of students fooled by your textbooks.
                      Quote: kalibr
                      And everyone sees that I’m not hiding behind a nickname, and when I asked you to introduce myself, did you answer me in PM?

                      It’s all blah blah blah, whoever needs it knows what, and if I’m disturbing you here, they’ll correctly evaluate what is being done. tongue
                      Quote: kalibr
                      cowardice with high ideals is incompatible.

                      Sorry for the harshness, but you said that about yourself when in the distant 90 years, they betrayed the country.
                      Not me, but you, being in the ranks of the party nomenclature, have made an act of betrayal, which you call "high ideals"
                      I read one of your articles .. pulled out in the search ... about textbooks and lo and behold, I immediately stumbled upon a kind of review of your article ... well, it’s very interesting. The Bloodthirster October 7, 2016 16:15 ↑
                      https://topwar.ru/97429-davayte-napishem-uchebnik
                      -istorii-chast-pervaya.html
                      As a result, who are the authors of the Unified Textbook on the History of Russia? Not you, Vyacheslav Olegovich? Why so?
                      https://pandoraopen.ru/2017-03-16/spicyn-e-yu-edi
                      nyj-uchebnik-po-istorii-rossii-5-tomov /
                      And your interpretations ... why didn’t they pass, why?
                      I'm not wrong?
                      1. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 06: 53 New
                        0
                        That is, even in PM introduce yourself to me Are you afraid? Is it strange? But others with whom I communicate here perceive it quite normally. This is not to the public. And I already asked you not to refer to electronic sources, especially the comments of the same anonymous. This is not the level at which you can convince me of something.
                        And no pathetic words about betrayal and so on. I already asked you, but I didn’t get an answer: you yourself scribble it from the dugout of the partisan detachment “Faithful Leninist”, and where did the salary come from? I did my job and did well. Then it turned out that it was not needed. Well - found what you need, but you do not?
                      2. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 07: 09 New
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        I'm not wrong?

                        You're wrong. I did not write textbooks on the history of Russia, if you are interested.
                      3. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 09: 51 New
                        0
                        "The method of the" curved mirror "... well, I'm sorry, but you use this method, I do not belong to the number of students being fooled by your textbooks."

                        Did you inattentively read what the point is? This is not just for students. Read not only the beginning and the end, but also the middle. And not "mirrors", why misinterpret concepts? There is no such technique. There is a "curved source" method, mirrors have nothing to do with it.
                    2. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 15 November 2017 04: 35 New
                      +2
                      In general, it is not clear why the reader should introduce himself to the writer.? Roles have long been distributed - the writer writes and some talk about themselves. But not all, far from all. The reader reads and votes in one way or another.
                      1. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 06: 54 New
                        0
                        Because Dmitry, when a person writes "in person" it is decent!
                      2. badens1111
                        badens1111 15 November 2017 08: 23 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Reptiloid
                        It is generally not clear why the reader should introduce himself to the writer.?

                        The caliber, as always, is modest, he introduced himself to Vlad, the answer = to me .. and so on and so forth, in the characteristic manner of a snob, to measure his tails.
                        So that....
                        CALIBER, I DON’T MANDATE to introduce myself to you, this is not a social event. Yes, and you, not the person whom I would like to be represented.
                2. avva2012
                  avva2012 15 November 2017 04: 10 New
                  +3
                  Today he published the next textbook “PR-Design and PR-Promotion” for masters. There are also materials tested at VO. In a year, the textbook "Public Opinion Management Technologies" will be completed.

                  Vyacheslav Olegovich, count the chickens in the fall. I have no doubt that perhaps these textbooks will be published. So what to do? Instead of the development of economics, science, education, and power, apparently, “control levers” and the possibility of further improvement by manipulating consciousness are needed. A kind of "1984" th, everything as you like. Here, only, this is the road to nowhere, just to the bottom. But while there is hope for the best, if, you, are participating in this process. And people like you. What you can’t take away from you all is the ability to destroy, turn into a farce any business you undertake. So, good luck. Well, as for the number of views, this is not an indicator. Information about knights is not propaganda issues in your Poison Feathers, or, as in this article, about Marx and Engels, because a child can also master it. So, I do not understand your optimism. Those who can rework in their head, just such an article as this one just does not leave “clicks” under it. It is worth thinking about this for you. Everyone loves sweet chewing gum, but not everyone has a desire to digest something serious. Yes, and knowledge is needed. This, you do not blow bubbles out of the bubble gum.
                  1. kalibr
                    15 November 2017 06: 59 New
                    +1
                    Doctor, strain your brain. Clicks are set not by reading the material, but by the name, when they open it, this is not an indicator of intelligence, but an indicator of interest. But why did you get that I have the desire to destroy. I’m just working to strengthen our country, it’s interesting for me to live in a strong state with a developed economy so that I, and you, have a pension of 1000 euros. You do not like this amount? Now, despite everything, the situation is better than in the 90s, isn't it? And gradually we will achieve more. Here you are completely right about chickens.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 15 November 2017 09: 26 New
                      +2
                      In order for the pension to be in 70 thousand rubles, the country should stop wasting the USSR’s heritage, withdraw funds abroad, begin to restore the economy, education, science, and not pour slop on the Soviet past, explaining that the reason for the current collapse is not thieves but in the Bolsheviks. Based on the fact that slop is poured more and more, I conclude that our country is not threatened with new industrialization, education and science do not need anyone, and medicine itself will bend. Therefore, none of those who are at the real helm of power need changes and, as the country has been dragged away for 26 years, they will continue. You and others, the same ones, are providing ideological support to this area.
                      What happens in the country after the development of Soviet scientists and engineers is over, I think there is no need to explain. Against the background of sanctions, when it will not be possible to buy the missing machines, equipment, how long will this construct under the name of the Russian Federation be held? That is, you are working to destroy. And so that the falling wall doesn’t overwhelm you, use your own advice about Alaska.
                      1. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 12: 21 New
                        0
                        I don’t know how medicine will be bent. Was just in one of our medical centers. The prices are decent, the doctors are experienced, the walls are good plastic. There are enough people at the reception. My doctor, about whom I wrote to you, opened a new laboratory-laboratory for blood tests. And Alaska ... understand you, finally, professionals now have nothing to fear. I have full Penza of my students and people who grew up on my TV shows. What are you talking about?
                3. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 15 November 2017 04: 48 New
                  +2
                  About the number of views and clicks. You can’t take it literally. Where and when do we read, look through a newspaper, magazine? In transport, at work, while there are no visitors and superiors or, at home, waiting for dinner .... Depends on the amount of time and the possibility of "" inclusion "in the article.
                  1. kalibr
                    15 November 2017 07: 02 New
                    0
                    Teach me Dmitry, teach me. And then I somehow poorly imagine the specifics of information management of society.
                    1. Reptiloid
                      Reptiloid 15 November 2017 11: 54 New
                      +1
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Teach me Dmitry, teach me. And then I somehow have a poor idea.

                      I don’t teach, but I suppose that clicks aren’t all clear. Indeed, many people read while eating. Even in the afternoon in a cafe they can somehow read on the phone or tablet. And what article? Probably easier and shorter, but you don’t even have to try to read it if the break has already ended.
                      1. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 13: 54 New
                        0
                        You don’t put a click on the volume - Lord, my God! And by the title. At that moment, as you move on to the material, you still do not know who the author is. You can guess, but you can not. And how do you determine by title what is easier and shorter? You can guess about the content, yes. And lighter, in short - nonsense.
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 15 November 2017 01: 36 New
              +4
              Quote: kalibr
              And why are you telling me this rank stuck, it suits me and mine civile-candidate of historical sciences, associate professor.

              This is necessary, until now they did not learn to distinguish a scientific degree from a scientific rank:
              - Ph.D. (candidate of historical sciences) is an academic degree,
              - Associate Professor is a scientific title.
              1. kalibr
                15 November 2017 07: 00 New
                0
                The main thing for me is that there are both.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 16 November 2017 00: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: kalibr
                  The main thing for me is that there are both.

                  And why then is it necessary if you do not understand what it is? It’s the same as the Indians pulled on the beads and rejoiced that they have them.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 16 November 2017 05: 29 New
                    +2
                    There was such a work, Jean-Baptiste Moliere, "The Tradesman in the Nobility," this is from there.
      2. kalibr
        14 November 2017 11: 53 New
        +1
        “In the eyes of the vulgar-patriotic public, the glory of victories, successive conquests, the power and external brilliance of tsarism outweigh all its sins, all despotism, all injustice and arbitrariness” [7, 15]. Very relevant today, right? Only "tsarism" is thrown out and inserted about the holy USSR.
  16. kalibr
    14 November 2017 10: 05 New
    +2
    Quote: Reptiloid
    But will I find this paragraph, but will I recognize it .....

    This is intellectually ...
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 15 November 2017 12: 26 New
      +1
      Maybe about one paragraph, is it about that one that you read? And they said --- brilliant! And then did not begin to read? It cannot be that the author of so many books that have been published for more than 100 years, and now, too, has only one paragraph.! And you, as I wrote earlier, did not inform the sources of the critics.
      1. kalibr
        15 November 2017 13: 50 New
        0
        Dmitry, like you, there’s no point in giving a lot of things. You do not guess whether I read or not, do not play daisies. Take and read the Red Star.
  17. brn521
    brn521 14 November 2017 10: 12 New
    0
    Very correct poster in terms of the rules of heraldry. All people are looking from right to left.

    If it means forward from right to left, then this is some kind of Arab system. The whole country was taught to write from left to right, so the poster seems somehow retrograde.
    1. kalibr
      14 November 2017 10: 19 New
      +1
      Heraldry has its own rules. If in the opposite direction, then the figure on the coat of arms is called "cowardly"
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 14 November 2017 11: 42 New
        +4
        And why did you decide that heraldry should explain everything here? Psychology is no worse, and it also has its own explanation: time is encoded in the mind by sorting images. Moreover, the location of these images "in the inner space" for most Europeans and North Americans goes from left to right. On the left is the past, on the right is the future. Therefore, to look at the picture to the left means "to see the primary sources, the root cause", but to the right - to see the future.
        Most Arabs - in a different way: there the time line is located not from left to right, but from back to front. By the way, this explains their inherent non-punctuality and difficulties in planning time: having images of the future in front of you on the same line - it is not possible to see their consistent perspective.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 12: 52 New
          +3
          Wow! Have you read Bendler?
          1. BMP-2
            BMP-2 14 November 2017 17: 39 New
            +5
            Quote: avva2012
            Wow! Have you read Bendler?

            Well, why not read it? winked Especially if you have the opportunity to immediately check what you read in practice! wink
      2. brn521
        brn521 14 November 2017 14: 07 New
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        Heraldry has its own rules

        Well, and in what class of the Soviet school was heraldry taught? For a citizen of the USSR, forward is what moves to the right relative to the observer. So we were taught in primary school. And later, in geography, for us to the right - it is east, along with the Earth, towards sunrise. As for the leaders and other Engels, these are supposedly prophets who have ushered in the future. So to speak, the aliens from paradise, who showed us the correct and short way there. Type as communism is finally complete, so finally we will understand what it is. Therefore, they can easily look from right to left, because personify the ideal to which we must move. And we must move to the future, i.e. right. By sunrise.
        For the future, in anticipation of perestroika, it would be nice to reserve a slight curvature of the surface. To illustrate the growing suspicion of the masses against the background of generational change and exhausted enthusiasm that the movement takes place in a squirrel wheel, and Marx with the company is nothing more than a decoration symbolizing something incomprehensible and unattainable.
  18. Free wind
    Free wind 14 November 2017 10: 22 New
    +4
    At the first, everyone looks at what Stalin is looking at. The object in front of it is about 3-4 meters a little to the left of Stalin. Yes there are not four, there are five. More than 30 volumes, even if I want to check if this is true, I can’t. But Engels was a very good friend of Marx and sponsored him, but he wrote a little. It seems the author is not in the subject. But the capital of Marx can be read.
  19. IS-80_RVGK2
    IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 10: 36 New
    +7
    the desire of European countries to redistribute colonies outside Europe, because of which war would still become inevitable.

    Hmmmm. Wow, how unexpected. It turns out the First World War is a product of capitalism. The very one for whom the anti-Soviet Shpakovsky agitates so much. And in fact, World War II is also its product, but capitalism is “our everything,” and communism, of course, is garbage. laughing
  20. bober1982
    bober1982 14 November 2017 10: 52 New
    +2
    K. Marx was highly appreciated by such anti-communists as Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jacques Attali, who even wrote his biography (published in a series of ZhZL)
    And they appreciated him because Marx in his works denied traditional values, in fact Marx was the founder of globalism.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 11: 19 New
      +4
      According to Brzezinski: “Marxism represents a new, extremely important stage in the formation of the human worldview. Marxism means the victory of a person who is actively related to the outside world over a passive contemplative person, and at the same time, the victory of reason over faith. ” Brzezinski did not fully understand Marx, but as a literate man he could not but understand the significance of Marxism for the sphere of ideas, for politics in the 19th and 20th centuries. Therefore, he recorded the significance of Marxist ideology. Fixed and all. No enthusiastic statements.
      Jacques Attali, believed that in the future there will be a "World Government", but it will not consist of the proletariat, but of the bourgeoisie.
      So, alas, but you did not understand, nothing.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 14 November 2017 11: 33 New
        +1
        ........ a mass change of people is necessary ........ getting rid of all the dung of centuries and preparing to establish a new society ....., the author of verses about muddy brains reports.
        For this he was respected, for the theory of the mass change of people.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 00 New
          +4
          It’s not clear to me, from the word at all. At least three times the mass consciousness of people has changed. It is not possible to imagine that a free man can have a slave in a primitive communal system. I think the scrapping of the slave-owning and feudal system led to a massive change in people and their attitude towards themselves and society. It’s not clear to me then, why shouldn’t this happen during the transition to the communist formation?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 14 November 2017 13: 40 New
            0
            Quote: avva2012
            At least three times the mass consciousness of people has changed.

            But this consciousness has changed since the creation of the world. Everything has its time - I mean Marx, who needed his theories, for example, in feudal society.
            And as a result (changes in the consciousness of people), we live in an abnormal world, but the process itself is certainly not finished, the most interesting is ahead, and Marx was just a link in the chain.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 14 November 2017 14: 14 New
              +2
              We live in the crazy world of dying capitalism. Time accelerated with the beginning of the development of scientific and technical progress, for a person, society. The primitive communal system lasted tens of thousands of years, slaveholding, several thousand, capitalism, 500, and this is in individual countries. It's time for his change. Therefore, the ideas of K. Marx appeared in time.
              If there is no natural transition, then there will be a return to feudalism with elements of slavery. What, we observe in the B. East. Do you like this prospect?
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 14 November 2017 14: 57 New
                0
                Quote: avva2012
                Do you like this prospect?

                2000 years ago it was said about current affairs, because you should know how Orthodox. And you are talking about some kind of feudalism. Near there is at the doorin short, the prospects are grim.
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 14 November 2017 15: 45 New
                  +1
                  Well, what about prospects, I wouldn’t say so pessimistically. Nowhere, the end dates are not indicated. So let's live esche! Under communism, we certainly do not shine, but for posterity, we can try.
    2. BMP-2
      BMP-2 14 November 2017 11: 31 New
      +4
      Well, so they, with their practicality and pragmatism, why deny that in which Marx was right? request Yes, and what are they, "traditional Western values"?
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 14 November 2017 12: 14 New
        +3
        Quote: BMP-2
        why deny what Marx was right about?

        So I say that, but Marx was right their concepts.
        Quote: BMP-2
        what are they, "traditional western values"?

        And where are the Western ones, they either exist - these are the most traditional values, or they are not there.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 12: 55 New
          +3
          I do not agree. Western values ​​are the values, often of the Anglo-Saxon world, that is, the Protestant. You, they like, I have the idea of ​​destination, no. Yes and heresy, this. Just do not understand what you do not like in K. Marx?
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 14 November 2017 12: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: avva2012
            What do you dislike in Marx?

            He was a Satanist.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 31 New
              +4
              C'mon nonsense. He did not see the place of religion in the society of the future, but then there was time, many of the intellectuals believed that here, a little, a little, and everything would be accessible to science. NTR was.
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 13: 02 New
      +3
      Quote: bober1982
      in fact, Marx was the founder of globalism.

      A relay of other people's thoughts does not make it difficult to explain why globalism is so bad? smile
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 14 November 2017 13: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        A relay of other people's thoughts

        Well, this is someone who reads to someone, and Marx likes someone.
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        Why is globalism so bad?

        Globalism is the destruction of the family, nation-states, the transformation of man into an animal. This is what we are observing now.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 48 New
          +4
          Yes, I agree, about globalism. Here, just, you describe, you are the defeat of capitalism, and as you know, from the aspen, oranges will not be born.
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 14: 07 New
          +4
          Quote: bober1982
          Well, this is someone who reads to someone, and Marx likes someone.

          I like logic. And not every far-fetched nonsense that you are happy to believe in.
          Quote: bober1982
          Globalism is the destruction of the family, nation-states, the transformation of man into an animal. This is what we are observing now.

          You cannot be turned into an animal. You already. Exactly when they refused to think about what you say and do.
          So, remember, the processes of globalization go from the moment of the emergence of mankind and will go on. And our country with you is also a product of globalization. Once upon a time, individual tribes and tribal unions came together and created a state. So when you criticize globalization you are essentially criticizing Russia. Once the communists dreamed of uniting humanity. But foolish people like you have chosen capitalism. So now don’t cry. Each choice has consequences.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 14 November 2017 14: 20 New
            0
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            You cannot be turned into an animal. You already. Exactly when they refused to think about what you say and do.

            Very confusing.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            So, remember, the processes of globalization go from the moment of the emergence of mankind and will go on and on

            I agree, but I also said in the comments about this (about the change in the consciousness of people since the creation of the world)
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            But foolish people like you have chosen capitalism.

            Yes, there has long been no capitalism, because you yourself are talking about globalism.
            Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
            So now don’t cry. Each choice has consequences.

            Say again in riddles, do not fantasize.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 14: 26 New
              +3
              Quote: bober1982
              Very confusing.

              That's what I'm talking about. Already a very simple idea is not able to understand.
              Quote: bober1982
              Yes, there has long been no capitalism, because you yourself are talking about globalism.

              What are you saying? Has private ownership of the means of production gone? No. So nefig and invent.
              Quote: bober1982
              Say again in riddles, do not fantasize.

              There were two options. Communist and capitalist. You have chosen the capitalist. Like this. And without any fantasy ravings about the "abnormal world."
              1. bober1982
                bober1982 14 November 2017 14: 32 New
                0
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                There were two options. Communist and capitalist.

                It was, it was, yes it is, because it is a complete anachronism, just transitional periods, Brzezinski was an intelligent man, which is why he appreciated Marx.
        3. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 15 November 2017 02: 58 New
          +4
          Quote: bober1982

          Globalism is the destruction of the family, nation-states, the transformation of man into an animal. This is what we are observing now.

          You do not quite correctly understand globalization; you confuse it with liberalism. Globalization is the unification of the world, by expanding the economies of developed countries to third world countries, by transferring part of their production to them. The stimulus of globalization is the cheapness of the labor force of third countries.
          Globalization has a huge plus, it develops the productive forces of underdeveloped countries, the proletariat grows there, the remnants of the past are destroyed there, such as religion and the Muslim aristocracy, which keeps its peoples in the dark.
          A secular state, capitalism, and the working class are developing in these countries. And this gives good prospects already for the world revolution, about which K. Marx and F. Engels spoke and which they expected after the October Revolution.
          But then the whole world was not ready to go over to socialism, and the world revolution did not happen, as a result of socialism in a particular country, the bourgeois environment strangled. And thanks to globalization, the readiness of the transition of the whole world to socialism is increasing. And the transition to it today will be easier and less bloody, because it will begin all over the world almost simultaneously, and therefore there will be no danger of external military intervention, and each nation will easily cope with its bourgeoisie.
          So the ghost of communism is wandering around the world.
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 15 November 2017 04: 12 New
            +3
            ALEXANDER GREEN! Glad your comment! Hurry up! This ghost will not be a ghostly, but quite a real event !!!.
            1. kalibr
              15 November 2017 09: 43 New
              0
              Dmitry, if this Green would still not live in Ukraine, if he were a doctor of historical sciences, a member of the Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences, then I would be the first to recommend you to listen. And so ... the dog barks, the wind wears. People like old age wishful thinking. You look around ... You see that he is raving ... The religion and the Muslim aristocracy are being destroyed ... the proletariat is growing ... Where is it? In Africa, perhaps ... In Europe, Muslims live in enclaves, without mixing with Europeans. The number of mosques rolls over and more are being built. Destroys ... ha!
              1. Reptiloid
                Reptiloid 15 November 2017 11: 30 New
                +3
                When the February bourgeois revolution took place, then V.I. Lenin thought that he could not live to see the proletarian revolution. And how everything began to spin ..... And the Bolshevik party was not numerous. Leftist essays were a priority. And how and what happened then you, Vyacheslav, know.
                1. kalibr
                  15 November 2017 12: 24 New
                  0
                  Dmitry, all this was not. Have it today! And it is different! Absolutely.
  21. kalibr
    14 November 2017 11: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
    capitalism "our everything"

    And in our country, what is the way now? Flag, coat of arms, form of ownership, salary. Who pays you? And where is your communism ... let him feel ... No! “So it was and isn’t there, such a sad song can be heard far somewhere” and then what are you talking about? And then ... am I advocating for something? I just live in this Russia. And where do you live?
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 14 November 2017 12: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Flag, coat of arms, form of ownership, salary. Who pays you?

      Quote: kalibr
      And then ... am I advocating for something?

      Undoubtedly. As you can see constantly in your opus. smile
      Quote: kalibr
      I just live in this Russia.

      Yes Yes. If you have nothing to do with it. laughing
      Quote: kalibr
      And where do you live?

      In Russia that you lost. laughing
      1. kalibr
        14 November 2017 17: 07 New
        0
        That is, you discovered the secret of the "time machine" and from there it all goes to us? Well, I live in a modern one, with all its problems, and I want to do so (and do it) so that there are fewer of them. What is available to me? Enlightenment of people so that they all know and themselves (themselves!) Could draw conclusions based on the information received. They don’t want to, you know? The same doctor wrote a whole list of interesting magazines. There is different information, like here, but ... there are no historian bakers. Do you think I read at least something? And so he knows everything!
        And yet, what about the salary? Do you get her Soviet banknotes or ours?
  22. BMP-2
    BMP-2 14 November 2017 11: 29 New
    +5
    thinking without knowledge is completely useless, and, above all, to those who comment on someone else’s materials only on the basis of what he thinks.


    Vyacheslav, criticism of pure reason? lol Something familiar to me, so ... laughing However, someone still believes that the truth is contained in the subjective points of view expressed in scientific articles, magazines and newspapers ... Knowledge does not become reliable from the fact that it is published somewhere. Therefore, no one canceled the verification of "scientific" knowledge for reliability. For just one explanation of how the impulse is transmitted in the nervous system, 6 Nobel Prizes were awarded. Moreover, each subsequent, in fact, refuted the previous one. Where is the evidence that the article you published is more reliable than others, which set forth the exact opposite point of view?
  23. kalibr
    14 November 2017 11: 35 New
    0
    Quote: BMP-2
    Where is the evidence that the article you published is more reliable than others, which set forth the exact opposite point of view?

    At the end there are links to sources. Do not believe what is written? Open and see for yourself. That's all! This is the axiom of knowledge. That is why scientific and contain links to sources.
    1. BMP-2
      BMP-2 14 November 2017 11: 51 New
      +6
      Well, Vyacheslav, it’s not for me to explain to you that references to sources in scientific papers are needed for:
      a) the formal implementation of the concept of "continuity" of scientific knowledge, where it is assumed that new knowledge is "connected" with the previous one and "derived from it";
      b) the removal of responsibility for plagiarism;
      c) argumentation of one’s own fabrications by referring to “recognized authorities”, with which it is either impossible to argue or does not make sense.
      I have no complaints about the links. Claims - to the reliability of knowledge. The reason is simple: any link is a quotation of something. But quoting, taken out of context, has the property of 180 degrees to expand the assessment of information. yes
      1. kalibr
        14 November 2017 12: 09 New
        +1
        But this claim is not for me. Is this my article? I just picked up the pictures. This is written.
  24. kalibr
    14 November 2017 11: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: Free Wind
    It seems the author is not in the subject.

    When it seems you need to be baptized ...
    1. BMP-2
      BMP-2 14 November 2017 11: 54 New
      +7
      Well, I don’t know, Vyacheslav. I liked your articles about tanks in the Technique of Youth much more. Each number was waiting in trembling anticipation of the opening ... And here - they didn’t even put links ...
      1. kalibr
        14 November 2017 12: 07 New
        +1
        A book about tanks on AST came out - order, read !!! Here she is!
  25. BRONEVIK
    BRONEVIK 14 November 2017 11: 39 New
    17
    No one has removed the question about the price of experiments
    Why not Germany?
    But because, as in the joke: "revolutions are prohibited by the decree of the Kaiser"
    The ban was violated, but they did not grow up to socialism
  26. OAV09081974
    OAV09081974 14 November 2017 12: 02 New
    20
    And I would like to point out such merits of the article as references to sources and literature used, original illustrations selected.
    Well, the scale, the scale of the issue)
    1. kalibr
      14 November 2017 12: 06 New
      +1
      Olga well done, she has been dealing with this topic for a long time and when I asked her to help with the material, I immediately agreed. And I just need help now - it takes a lot of time for a textbook of 400 pages. I’ll write (finish), then I won’t invite guests.
  27. kalibr
    14 November 2017 12: 07 New
    0
    Quote: BMP-2
    And here - they didn’t even put links ...

    How not to set? And what is at the end?
  28. OAV09081974
    OAV09081974 14 November 2017 12: 08 New
    19
    Full article.
    And if in the words of one of the defendants (in the photo) of this article "to deepen and expand" - in the future, you can approach the writing of a thesis.
    Successes O. Martynova!
    1. kalibr
      14 November 2017 16: 23 New
      0
      She is already a candidate of philosophical sciences, associate professor of our department "Philosophy and Social Communications".
  29. kalibr
    14 November 2017 12: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: avva2012
    And what could be fairer, "to each according to his ability, to each according to his work"?

    So right now, at our university, according to the rating, the work of teachers is noted, those who work more and are more valuable to the university and the country receive more. So we have socialism at PSU!
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 13: 10 New
      +4
      You have garbage, not socialism. The Bologna system, or whatever else it is. The rating is now being formed on the citation index. If in the exact sections of science, this even means something, then in the humanitarian, nonsense. I judge medicine, at least, and even such a scientist as Zhores Alferov, who has repeatedly criticized this vicious system, for me personally, authority.
      1. kalibr
        14 November 2017 16: 31 New
        0
        Not only on the index, not at all. We take into account - career guidance work with schoolchildren - how much I went to, how much I went to, what events I participated in, where I took students (contests, competitions), whom I supervised and how. He wrote some monographs, before putting them on the E-lab., Which articles in the RSCI, HAC and SCOPUS - Skopus University pays for electronic textbooks and programs, general university lectures ... inventions, grants, UMO teaching materials and without a stamp. See what that gets into quoting? That is, all the social and scientific work of the teacher is evaluated. Well, actually his teaching. For this, the EIOS system was introduced. The electronic information and educational system - there are all your programs, tests, there was, was not a student in the assessment classes - that's all! What to criticize?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 16: 50 New
          +3
          You, ask Alferov, he knows your kitchen, he knows better than me, of course. And, I am only a consumer and, as a consumer, such nonsense in recent years, I see in scientific journals in my industry ... Yes, and how students study, their ratings, and for what they get them, too.
          1. kalibr
            14 November 2017 18: 41 New
            0
            No need to hide behind Alferov. You wrote that the rating is based on the citation index. That is, you wrote without knowing what and how. And now Alferov. I wrote to you, as a matter of fact. There is a university website. And mine and others - everything is checked. Yes ... And the absolute, of course, no, we only hone the system. For example, our university switched to EIOS just now ... some earlier. About Jaurès, I don’t know what he knows. And I do not know very well about medical students, I rarely work with them. And my techies also want the best. Of the two groups, no one read before entering either UT, MK, TM, or NiT — only one read Avtomobilist. That is, how did they choose their specialty? I ask about it ... "And there were state budget places." That is, free education (which is not, right?) Is everything. But it’s not our fault that they did not read these magazines in their families. Is not it? And they are not used to reading in the families of people born in the USSR and who studied there. The children of those who studied in the 90s still study at school. Well, and we checked our PR specialists and advertisers - 100% of employment in the specialty. Before this - 87%. And there are specialties where 2-3% ... That is, employment is no longer a rating. This is demand, this is real money.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 14 November 2017 19: 38 New
              +3
              Quote: kalibr
              Our PR specialists and advertisers - 100% of employment in the specialty.

              That is, in your talkers and rhymes, your everything ???
              And whoever will build the country, these same talkers and rhymes or people of other specialties who, thanks to your twists of 90, didn’t seem to be needed, but the roasted cock pecked and everyone started to fuss, oh oh, locksmiths, CNC programmers turners aren’t enough. already about engineers of different profiles.
              Why the hell, a bunch of professionally trained talkers, lawyers, managers, energizers and other merchandisers, if the country is really good for them, exactly zero?
              Is trading all yours?
              1. kalibr
                14 November 2017 20: 55 New
                +1
                Is the money canceled? If not, then there must be people who know how to earn them. Energizer is a battery. We have nothing to do with this. In my opinion, there is nothing shameful in professionally doing your job. And not enough turners - let them pay more, that's all. While they pay more to advertisers. So there is something to advertise. As for lawyers, the level of legal literacy of our people is so low that how many do not let them out - all is few. And there are no budget places - and applicants are eager for legal. And the needs of people must be met. Especially if they pay for them! That's why it is freedom. For this, people once died on barricades. And by the way, I am glad that you repeated my employment data. Repetition of an ad unit is always good. Even the little things.
                As for the construction of the country, this year in Penza State University 677 state-funded places were given by the state for technical specialties. More than all other specialties. So who wants to study as an engineer - please!
            2. avva2012
              avva2012 15 November 2017 02: 44 New
              +3
              Not for anyone, I'm not hiding. Find the article by J. Alferov and read for yourself. The situation in universities is now the same everywhere, and not just in medical ones. And he didn’t write about them, my son is studying technical at my place. Only the problem is not that the children do not read at home, or rather, it is a consequence of the policy that, you, actively supported while standing with a poster at the rally in 1996, urging you to vote with your heart.
              1. kalibr
                15 November 2017 09: 34 New
                0
                But still it happened, right? And the poster is what ... what I then did research, published articles, TV shows, people like zombies did what I considered the best. And now I’m already doing this to others. The discipline is called "Public Opinion Management Technologies", approved by the RF Ministry of Industry. I have time to tell you, doctor ...
                Somehow at the time he is conducting our TV program. Debate, I and some kind of communist, boss + students for him and for me. Well, he was built, for free, ... In Africa, I was there the name Lenin is known. I told him - and now in Africa the most famous name is Kalash ... And now 60 seconds remain. to the end, and the leader says that the last word to me, because I spoke less. And this "uncle" was much older than me ... And I told him - So you think that you are right, but I am not? (pit and trap) He - Yes, Yes, I think so (I hit the pit). I - it’s necessary, you think, but you don’t know an elementary thing! (the trap is ready to slam). He is what kind of thing I do not know? (Clap) I - and the one who in the dispute wins not the one who is right, but the one who is younger. Because he outlives his opponent and does everything in his own way. Never to see you my grave, but I still laugh standing at yours! A man immediately began to swallow pills, students stomp and clap (the trap worked at 100%). And the operator is large to show it all. And the end of the transfer, second per second. And in the end, the popular opinion is "how he cut it." That’s all that remains in people's memory. Until "your people" learn to work the same way, do not see you your beloved scoop as their ears. By the way, Jaurès just knows how. But he is one and he is a physicist ... By the way, doctor, since you are younger than me, you have a real advantage in terms of someone. You can laugh while standing on my grave. But no one will hear you, that’s the difference. So laugh as much as you want ...
                1. avva2012
                  avva2012 15 November 2017 10: 52 New
                  +3
                  I almost went there, five years ago. So I can appreciate your application. The usual, everyday rudeness is, not the construction of traps.
                  And judge for yourself. What’s funny on someone’s grave? You can’t fix anything, it’s all over. Rejoice? So, you are a man, nevertheless, not a ghoul. Just an unfortunate, lonely person in fact, but because you bring this misfortune to others, involuntarily. Despise those below you on the social ladder, older or poorer. Not all of them, believe me. And if on whose grave, I would like to laugh from the bottom of my heart, then on a purely hypothetical one. At the grave of your chicken coop society. I'd love to see our country different.
                  1. badens1111
                    badens1111 15 November 2017 11: 23 New
                    +3
                    Quote: avva2012
                    And if on whose grave, I would like to laugh from the bottom of my heart, then on a purely hypothetical one. At the grave of your chicken coop society. I'd love to see our country different.

                    Absolutely right.
                  2. kalibr
                    15 November 2017 12: 32 New
                    +1
                    "Despise those below you on the social ladder, older or poorer."
                    Well, you are a strange person. He wrote to you more than once: those who do not despise below - it all depends WHY below, those who are older - only those who ... stupid - have lived for many years, but haven’t gained their minds. Those who are poorer are always ready to help. But ... if a person himself does not want to be helped, then only he is worthy. And my loneliness can be envied ha ha. Or have you decided so because of my answers to you and others? So I’m working on a book ... You’ll get tired ... I want to distract myself. Let me throw them ... at the fan. And then comes the work!
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 15 November 2017 15: 08 New
                      +2
                      belay Trap again! Heather, you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, like snakes! That's just how much time it’s already on the site, and so, you don’t remember something else, and not a fan substance, that was thrown away. Not afraid to step out?
                      1. kalibr
                        15 November 2017 18: 28 New
                        +1
                        Now, on the same site, an article about Cyprus, take a look. And then, all the time? You have some kind of selective memory. Do I not exhaustively answer the questions asked in a decent form or ignore the interest shown? And let people stupid, yes, repented.
    2. Mikado
      Mikado 14 November 2017 13: 50 New
      +3
      So we have socialism at PSU!

      yeah, a little more, and communism will come. wink It remains for you, Vyacheslav Olegovich, to adjust the armored car in order to deliver incendiary sermons! fellow good joke. But the fact that a progressive reward system has been introduced is a plus hi
  30. Monarchist
    Monarchist 14 November 2017 13: 43 New
    +3
    Quote: avva2012
    The community is closer to communist relations. In my opinion, K. Marx wanted to say this. And therefore, the communist ideas, quite, found a response in the peasant environment. Especially when it became something to compare. The rapid stratification of the village and the impoverishment of most of it at the beginning of the twentieth century made many remember that "they used to live better, in fairness." Therefore, collective farms, again, for the majority, did not become something unacceptable.

    Please read the correspondence between Sholokhov and Stalin, and then remember the hunger strike of 1932 in the Kuban (for some reason, the horses only recognize the famine)
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 14: 21 New
      +2
      Read and why, it happened, including Sholokhov. When cattle and horses were slaughtered, yielding to rumors and agitation, what should be prosperity? On the Internet there are memos of "bodies" to the center, as it were. Although, you can not read. Everything is simple, the Bolsheviks destroyed the people from savage tendencies.
  31. Vend
    Vend 14 November 2017 13: 58 New
    +1
    avva2012,
    I am glad that they will stop tearing Russia into two parts. People will calm down and begin to build their country. A lot of verbiage.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 14 November 2017 14: 05 New
      +3
      I am glad that they will stop tearing Russia into two parts. People will calm down and begin to build their country. A lot of verbiage.

      Anatoly, you said what I’ve been trying to say for a long time. There’s not even verbiage .. There’s another .. Moral and applied occupation ..
      1. Vend
        Vend 14 November 2017 14: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Mikado
        I am glad that they will stop tearing Russia into two parts. People will calm down and begin to build their country. A lot of verbiage.

        Anatoly, you said what I’ve been trying to say for a long time. There’s not even verbiage .. There’s another .. Moral and applied occupation ..

        What to do, you can not swear on the site.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 14 November 2017 14: 32 New
          +3
          Yes. And rightly so! good Develops “Aesopian language”, as Elena says, written and spoken language, and intelligence in general. yes Although sometimes I really want to call a spade a spade. wink Hush up, forget drinks
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 14 November 2017 15: 02 New
      +3
      With the realization that you’ve reconciled with the ghoul? This is a scary world.
      1. Vend
        Vend 14 November 2017 15: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: avva2012
        With the realization that you’ve reconciled with the ghoul? This is a scary world.

        For some, a ghoul, but for some, a savior of the fatherland or a guardian for the people. Such an approach must hate the Germans, the Mongols, the Swedes. It's all about hatred and atheism. One who cannot reconcile a weak-minded person.
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 14 November 2017 16: 15 New
          +3
          the ghoul will remain a ghoul, not a savior of the fatherland, forever, until the world turns upside down and there are no majority like you.
          1. Vend
            Vend 14 November 2017 16: 44 New
            0
            Quote: avva2012
            the ghoul will remain a ghoul, not a savior of the fatherland, forever, until the world turns upside down and there are no majority like you.

            Why am I better than you or are you worse than me? I think nothing. But I reconciled with the Soviet ghouls who took everything from my family. And I did not feel the joy of the collapse of the USSR. I did not run away and did not leave my homeland in difficult times. But in life it is so arranged that everything that is not viable dies. I live in modern Russia. It is impossible to go forward with your head turned back, not only do you not see where you are going, you can still stumble and you can fall and break your head.
            1. avva2012
              avva2012 14 November 2017 17: 40 New
              +3
              What doubts could be that your family, you, the Soviet government, took everything. And, how, you nobly acted, I think readers, too, appreciated. Only Kolchak will remain a ghoul no matter where your head is turned and what you think about evolution.
              1. Vend
                Vend 14 November 2017 18: 15 New
                +1
                Quote: avva2012
                What doubts could be that your family, you, the Soviet government, took everything. And, how, you nobly acted, I think readers, too, appreciated. Only Kolchak will remain a ghoul no matter where your head is turned and what you think about evolution.

                My head is turned forward. And the matter is not in nobility, but in reason. I do not whine about the lost and do not hate. Hate makes fun of worthless people. But Kolchak for me is like Lenin or Stalin, a historical person. Kolchak defended what he believed in, as did his opponents. And those who sow hatred on the bones are not worth much. Because apart from their hatred, they see nothing. Well, they cannot live without class hostility, they do not care about Russia, hostility is what is most important for such people.
                1. badens1111
                  badens1111 14 November 2017 18: 26 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Wend
                  My head is turned forward. And the matter is not in nobility, but in reason.

                  Don't be fooled
                  Who is valuable for the history of Russia, Grozny or Kurbsky?
                  Peter 1 or Mazepa?
                  Lenin or Kolchak?
                  Stalin or Vlasov?
                  So anyone who puts on the Kurbs, Mazepas, Kolchaks, Vlasovs, in the end always loses.
                  And the attitude towards the indicated is not hatred, there is a sober assessment of who was more useful for the history of Russia.
                  1. Vend
                    Vend 14 November 2017 18: 55 New
                    0
                    Quote: badens1111
                    Quote: Wend
                    My head is turned forward. And the matter is not in nobility, but in reason.

                    Don't be fooled
                    Who is valuable for the history of Russia, Grozny or Kurbsky?
                    Peter 1 or Mazepa?
                    Lenin or Kolchak?
                    Stalin or Vlasov?
                    So anyone who puts on the Kurbs, Mazepas, Kolchaks, Vlasovs, in the end always loses.
                    And the attitude towards the indicated is not hatred, there is a sober assessment of who was more useful for the history of Russia.

                    Yes, it’s not even solid for me to deceive myself. And all whom you listed are historical figures, but somehow you did not adequately compare them. Absolutely not equivalent people. A sober assessment is a calm attitude to the historical past. And an assessment of who would be useful is nothing more than stupidity. On which side to evaluate, for example, Peter the Great, Russia has become a great power, but how many peasants died in shipyards, the construction of cities, how many foreigners came who destroyed Russian history. Hatred of one and thoughtless praise of others, this has already passed.
                    1. badens1111
                      badens1111 14 November 2017 19: 45 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Wend
                      And all whom you listed are historical figures, but somehow you did not adequately compare them.

                      Absolutely adequate, each corresponded to its era and each made its own choice, the first for the country and in the name of its people, the second against the country and against the people. The betrayal of the latter is inexpressible, like the betrayal of Judah.
                      What you wrote about Peter 1 ... it’s familiar for everyone who thinks he is to be a liberal, although others renounce this stigma at first, the names of Grozny, Peter, Catherine 2, Stalin are nothing but a taboo, and in fact, thanks to curses they have what we have, otherwise they would have been crushed for a long time.
                      But in honor are all different Nikolai 2, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, I hope there is no need to compare, how do the first and second differ?
                      1. Vend
                        Vend 15 November 2017 09: 29 New
                        0
                        Quote: badens1111
                        Quote: Wend
                        And all whom you listed are historical figures, but somehow you did not adequately compare them.

                        Absolutely adequate, each corresponded to its era and each made its own choice, the first for the country and in the name of its people, the second against the country and against the people. The betrayal of the latter is inexpressible, like the betrayal of Judah.
                        What you wrote about Peter 1 ... it’s familiar for everyone who thinks he is to be a liberal, although others renounce this stigma at first, the names of Grozny, Peter, Catherine 2, Stalin are nothing but a taboo, and in fact, thanks to curses they have what we have, otherwise they would have been crushed for a long time.
                        But in honor are all different Nikolai 2, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, I hope there is no need to compare, how do the first and second differ?

                        These people occupied an unequal political position. An adequate comparison is for example Peter I and Princess Sophia. And to compare Stalin and Vlasov, this is how one should hate Stalin in order to humiliate him with such a comparison.
                        Read the story of the times of Peter, and you’re talking nonsense. You live in double standards, this one of ours will be white and fluffy, and this one will not be our bloody ghoul. Double standards. Everywhere, double standards.
                2. avva2012
                  avva2012 15 November 2017 04: 29 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Wend A Kolchak for me as well as Lenin or Stalin, a historical person. Kolchak defended what he believed in, as did his opponents.

                  You wrote above that "I was reconciled with the Soviet ghouls who took everything from my family," so there is a tiny difference. Kolchak’s assistants from your family would not have taken everything simply, but your “family” would not have been. And, accordingly, there would be no subject arguing about the objective causes of "class enmity" and about such concepts as worthlessness and worthlessness.
                  1. Vend
                    Vend 15 November 2017 09: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: avva2012
                    Quote: Wend A Kolchak for me as well as Lenin or Stalin, a historical person. Kolchak defended what he believed in, as did his opponents.

                    You wrote above that "I was reconciled with the Soviet ghouls who took everything from my family," so there is a tiny difference. Kolchak’s assistants from your family would not have taken everything simply, but your “family” would not have been. And, accordingly, there would be no subject arguing about the objective causes of "class enmity" and about such concepts as worthlessness and worthlessness.

                    Whether or not it was just your fantasies that cannot be supported by facts. Having nothing to do with reality. Let's fantasize on the topic of what would happen if there were no two coups and a revolution. This is pure verbiage. I do not deal with fairy tales, the wrong age and education.
                    1. avva2012
                      avva2012 15 November 2017 09: 40 New
                      +2
                      Well, why are fantasies, you are, and that means that the Soviet ghouls were not such ghouls.
                      1. Vend
                        Vend 15 November 2017 09: 50 New
                        0
                        Quote: avva2012
                        Well, why are fantasies, you are, and that means that the Soviet ghouls were not such ghouls.

                        So Nicholas II was not so bloody, and his era, once allowed the liberals and Bolsheviks to survive the revolution. laughing So be careful with fantasies, they kill. laughing However, this is already funny when my messages are monitored and waiting in a chat
  32. Monarchist
    Monarchist 14 November 2017 14: 06 New
    +3
    Thanks for the article: very sensible. All anti-Normanists should honor K. Marx. I was surprised to learn that Russia prefers to use the victory of others. Interestingly, how would Marx write after 1945: are General Moroz and Corporal Hitler to blame?
    But seriously, Dima "reptiloid" is right: the article must be re-read and re-read, and all crackling slogans should be sent by the forest.
    I knew that Berdichev was smart, but for his saying: "in the name of Marx, but not according to Marx" separate +
  33. BAI
    BAI 14 November 2017 14: 09 New
    +1
    So what's new here? That, Marx and Engels belonged to Russia and its people, to put it mildly negatively, has long been known. Here, not all statements are given. But, to be honest, I don’t want to reread 50 volumes (not the thinnest) to find them.
  34. avva2012
    avva2012 14 November 2017 14: 48 New
    +2
    Olgovich,
    Yayayayayaya! Olgovich, do not burst, please, sprinkle, after all, the entire water area! Nonsense, please write, but who is arguing with you then. Enjoy, but follow safety precautions.
    1. Curious
      Curious 14 November 2017 15: 24 New
      +3
      Doctor, I suggest that you indicate the object you indicated when discussing. Who, if not you, should know about the destructive effect of dementia. Si desperato (Lord admins - this is Latin for expressiveness).
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 14 November 2017 15: 52 New
        +4
        Victor Nikolaevich, if it was, then who would laugh at the sick, albeit desperate. Here the diagnosis is more serious, atrophy. I just don’t know which subfield is responsible for this social function. But the case is incurable.
  35. Alex_59
    Alex_59 14 November 2017 14: 55 New
    +2
    Moreover, the first three are looking "somewhere there," and only the look of "Comrade Stalin" is directed at those who are in front of the poster.

    It’s just that Stalin, the only one of those depicted, did not hover in the clouds and looked at ordinary people and mundane things. He was a man with a practical, applied approach. Those three are more likely theoretical scientists. And Stalin is a practical engineer.
  36. Curious
    Curious 14 November 2017 14: 56 New
    +3
    "... That is, the key to success in any business is knowledge. The latter, however, is acquired. I have repeatedly advised a number of VO visitors to seek information from one or another serious scientific journal, but, alas, the positive answer is that, I say, I took advantage of this advice, it didn’t follow. Therefore, apparently, I will have to give little by little the scientific articles of my colleagues, which in one way or another reveal little-known pages in the history of our society. One of them is connected with the notorious Marxism. "
    I would take the liberty to slightly supplement the author’s advice "to seek information from one or another serious scientific journal. ".
    Serious scientific journals are without a doubt a valuable source of information. However, they should not be considered the ultimate truth. In any case, a thinking person with knowledge should try to form his own opinion, since no matter how serious a scientific journal is, it contains someone else's opinion. And the information presented is sometimes within a certain framework or knowledge of the author, or of the conjuncture to which the author succumbed. Therefore, it is sometimes very useful to take up the fact that graduates of Soviet universities remember well and that they hated with all their heart - "work with primary sources."
    For example, take today's article. Good article. It seems to be not tendentious. There is a normal conclusion: “Thus, the views of K. Marx and F. Engels show a duality in relation to Russia. On the one hand, they emphasize its dissimilarity with Europe and its negative role in the development of the West, on the other hand, their criticism is directed at the government, not Russian people."
    However, there are moments that the author either missed or did not consider it necessary to cover - when this very "duality in relation to Russia" by Marx and Engels became "the property of the general public."
    And here the analysis of the primary sources allows us to find out that this was never a secret.
    Deystvitelno, Marks ne liked Rossiyu, pobaivalsya, schitaya ee kosnoy and otstaloy, a posle 1849 goda esche and chem-verily tipa topora, zanesennogo nad revolyutsionnym dvizheniem in "kulturnoy" Evrope, a 1865-m, Po svezhim sledam ocherednogo polskogo myatezha, spread his dislike and the Russian people as a whole. One cannot argue with this, and this is not a secret. And it was not Kara Murza who opened it today. Back in 1910 Russian the lawyer, public figure, publicist Mark Boris Ratner in the article “The National Face and the National Question” “walked” around Marx for his attitude to the position of the Balkan Slavs.
    I would also like to give an example of criticism of one of Engels's works, which is widely quoted here, of one very famous person in the USSR.
    "In sending to members of the Politburo of the Central Committee Engels' article" Foreign Policy of Russian Tsarism ", I consider it necessary to send her the following remarks.
    Comrade Adoratsky proposes to print in the next issue of Bolshevik, dedicated to the twentieth anniversary of the world imperialist war, Engels' famous article "The Foreign Policy of Russian Tsarism", first published abroad in 1890. I would consider it quite normal if they offered to print this article in Engels or in one of the historical journals. But we are offered to print it in our military journal, in Bolshevik, in the issue devoted to the twentieth anniversary of the world imperialist war. Consequently, they believe that this article can be considered as guiding or, in any case, deeply instructive for our party workers in terms of clarifying the problems of imperialism and imperialist wars. But Engels' article, as can be seen from its content, despite its merits, does not, unfortunately, possess these qualities. Moreover, it has a number of drawbacks which, if published without criticism, may confuse the reader.
    Therefore, I would consider it inappropriate to publish an article by Engels in the next issue of The Bolshevik.
    The following is a detailed analysis of the shortcomings of the article. And the corresponding conclusions.
    "Apparently, in his pamphlet against Russian tsarism (Engels' article is a good fighting pamphlet) Engels became somewhat carried away and, carried away, forgot for a moment about some elementary, well-known things to him."
    And recommendations.
    After all that has been said, is it worth publishing an article by Engels in our militant body, in the Bolshevik, as a guiding article or, in any case, deeply instructive, for it is clear that to print it in the Bolshevik means to silently give such a recommendation? I think not worth it.
    The above fragments belong to I.V. To Stalin. These are excerpts from his article “ABOUT THE ARTICLE OF ANGELS“ FOREIGN POLICY OF RUSSIAN TSARISM ”, published in No. 9 for 1934 of the Bolshevik magazine (the number of subscribers at that time was 550 thousand). You can read the full article in volume 14 of I.V. Stalin.
    Those. the shortcomings of the "creative heritage" of Marx and Engels were never hidden. Which, incidentally, does not reduce interest in him now.
    So I strongly recommend that you read completely those works, quotes from which are given in the article and links to which the author kindly provided. To make up your own mind what Marx and Engels wanted to say.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 14 November 2017 15: 00 New
      +2
      ... and then the heavy artillery came, and now it will distribute to everyone what Hello! hi come late! wink
  37. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 14 November 2017 16: 19 New
    +2
    "[under the poster] Only one is looking at the future shift. For two, this is completely uninteresting" ///

    And he looks very lost somehow. Must have seen from there what's ahead.
  38. Altona
    Altona 14 November 2017 16: 53 New
    +3
    In general, historical fabrications were apparently created in order to fit facts under a harmonious theory, otherwise a harmonious theory would not stand on its frail little legs. And the theory prescribes the beginning of socialism and communism to a more developed industrially western society, which already had at that time a developed financial system. Well, yes, there is great unrest in Russia, but basically like dissatisfaction with the central government, it was just before that it was just a rebellion of Emelka Pugachev, now it will be a revolt with the People’s Volunteers, ideologically savvy so to speak. The genius of Lenin and Stalin consisted in the fact that they found a way to turn the discontent of the peasant masses into a more constructive channel and convert most of this mass into the proletariat. After all, Lenin staged a proletarian revolution in an agrarian country, where the mass proletariat was still in the draft. Stalin realized this idea well. The overwhelming mass of the population was occupied in factories, the cultivation of the land became machine-made, along the way, they solved the problems with education and medicine. Of course, Stalin could not create an effective system of leadership of the country and succession quickly disappeared, the socialist state again degenerated into a bourgeois freak with royal eagles. China has solved the problem of continuity.
  39. LCA
    LCA 14 November 2017 20: 49 New
    0
    What C. Marx and F. Engels concealed in their defaults.
    -------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------
    The circumstance inherited from our past by our era is that for those who controlled global history, “Mraxism” was a means of eliminating the bourgeois-liberal way of life. The dissatisfaction of the “world behind the scenes” (global predictor - GP) with bourgeois liberalism already in that era was caused by the fact that it was he who initiated the race of uncontrolled consumption, in which natural resources and people's creative potential are grinded, which in the future can destroy global civilization in biosphere-social ecological crisis.
    ----------------------------------
    At the same time, “Marxism” did not imply the construction of a society of social justice - socialism, but it dragged political forces into the construction of pseudo-socialism.
    --------------------------------
    However, the Marxist project to replace bourgeois liberalism with pseudo-socialism did not solve this problem, since I.V. intervened in the GP plans Stalin, who, under the guise of "Marxism," began to implement an alternative global Bolshevik-socialist project. As a result, on a global scale, a conflict of administrations to one degree or another of self-governing two socio-economic systems arose: bourgeois-liberal (West) and pseudo-socialist (USSR and other countries of the socialist block).
    -------------------------------
    This ideological conflict gave rise to a military confrontation between the two military-economic blocs, in which the world more than once found itself on the brink of a nuclear war both as a result of computer malfunctions, as well as other errors in the control system of the armed forces of the opposing states, as well as political ambitions . The possibility of an unauthorized nuclear world war did not suit the “world backstage”, for which reason it faced the need to defuse the suicide potential of global civilization in a war or in an environmental disaster.
    ------------------------------
    The discharge of the potential of suicide of global civilization was supposed in the project of convergence of the two opposing systems, which (at least since Herbert Wells visited Soviet Russia in 1920) has been developing both in terms of theoretical justification (starting from Pitirim Sorokin) and in terms of its promotion into real politics (F.D. Roosevelt, J.F. Kennedy, Yu.V. Andropov, M.S. Gorbachev).
    ------------------------------
    The convergence project is focused on the unification of social management on a global scale and involves the construction of a socio-economic system that has the virtues of Marxist pseudo-socialism and capitalism based on the ideas of liberalism and, at the same time, free from their shortcomings. At present, this project is the basis of the GP policy with respect to all countries, and, in particular, in relation to their civilized part, hidden from the layman.
    ----------------------
    It was during the implementation of the convergence project at the first stage that Marxist pseudo-socialism in the USSR and in other countries of the socialist camp under the leadership of the KGB of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU was eliminated. And now, at the second stage, the next step is the elimination of bourgeois liberalism. These circumstances are key to understanding the roles of the KGB of the USSR and Yu.V. Andropov personally in the liquidation of the USSR and the world system of Marxist pseudo-socialism, as well as everything that happens in post-Soviet Russia and in global politics.
    -------------------------
    A natural question may arise: Why was the USSR with its pseudo-socialism, and not the USA, first liquidated? Indeed, in the countries of pseudo-socialism, the consumption race was condemned as a manifestation of "philistinism", unworthy of man, but consumption standards were still much lower than the consumption standards of the West, which was and remains the locomotive of the rampant consumption race?
    --------------------------------------
    The answer to this question is that the GP knew perfectly well what danger lies in the incomplete construction of pseudo-socialism due to the fault of JV Stalin, which, however, could not go on forever: sooner or later there would be people in the USSR who understood if there were a substantial difference between pseudo-socialism and socialism, they would expose the essence of “Marxism” and create a true theory of the construction of socialism, after which no “perestroika” in the USSR, and, therefore, its liquidation would be impossible.
    ---------------------------------------
    That is, the USSR had to be destroyed before the construction of real socialism entered the stage of irreversibility. In other words, it is all about the danger priorities for the SOE, i.e. what is more difficult to suppress - the growth of the consumption race or the construction of a new society in which its intellectual and moral potential is more fully revealed? The answer is obvious - building a new society.
  40. kalibr
    14 November 2017 20: 50 New
    +1
    Quote: badens1111
    That is, in your talkers and rhymes, your everything ???

    Everyone does the work in its place. We would teach bakers - rejoiced in their employment.
  41. Free wind
    Free wind 14 November 2017 20: 53 New
    +3
    I read 1 2 3 book of K Marx, there is nothing there about Russia. There's nothing. There are about some manufacturers of proudhons and edgards
  42. LCA
    LCA 14 November 2017 20: 59 New
    0
    For our contemporaries, the continuity of the strategy of I.V. Stalin and V.V. Putin, as well as the true reasons for the hysteria of the Russian and Western bourgeois liberals: they are not afraid of the fact itself in the perspective of the six-year stay of V.V. Putin is at the helm of Russian civilization, and the threat of turning the “manager they hired” into an autocrat that expresses the interests of the development of Russian civilization, as a result of which the ship Russia will change the course prescribed by Western navigators to its own ...
    ----------------------------------------
    For serious politicians in Russia and abroad, it is obvious that liberals in Russia have completely lost any significant social base in society and they will never return to power. In this regard, the question: “What would happen if they were not allowed to steer at the time?” - In society, there would be expectations: liberals would come and then we would live like in Europe.
    ---------------------------------------
    Dali steered - the majority was convinced: we will not heal, if we do not learn to think with our own head, having ceased to rely on the "West". Now many proactively raise a similar question in relation to the Russian Orthodox Church. Priests, like generals, always prepare for past wars (including information ones) and therefore think in categories of the early twentieth century, when people were 85% illiterate.
    ----------------------------------
    In this connection, let us recall those who urge not to dispute the legitimacy of the 1996 presidential election, cautioning that if the 1996 elections are illegitimate, then all subsequent political life is illegitimate. - Calm down: in Russia, everything is illegitimate since the time of Vladimir the Baptist, who was the son of a Khazar polonaise, the daughter of a rabbi from the city of Lubech. And there is no need to replace the question of legitimacy with the question of the appropriateness of one way or another way of the socio-historical development of Russian civilization.
    -------------------------------------
    In Russia, there is a conflict between state and business authorities on the topic of which of them is the main one in this pair, i.e. who should serve whom: business - statehood, or statehood - business.
    -----------------------
    The “elitist” regime is busy with another attempt in history to build a clan-tribal system with a hereditary-clan “elite,” and therefore it has neither an understanding of the long-term strategic goals of socio-historical development, nor a desire to understand them, much less work to implement them contrary to self-interest clans seized upon state and business power.
    --------------------------------
    Behind all the words about democracy, about law and rule of law, about civil society, about the modernization and revival of the country on the basis of innovative development, there is a strategic choice of the future option.
    ----------------------------------
    In global politics, the path to achieving this goal is: in one aspect, a lack of understanding on the part of the rest of the world of what is happening in Russia and what it is striving for; in another aspect, there is a conflict with the rulers of the biblical project of enslaving humanity on behalf of God by their slaves and zombies, in which they oppose the Providence with all the consequences arising from this fact - both for themselves and for those who do not recognize their power.
    -----------------------------
    The conflict of “elitist” statehood and “elitist” business power will steadily proceed, exposing stupidity and perversity, both of which will contribute to the personal development of many people and the realization of the option of the future using methods of direct matrix-egregional democracy.
    ------------------------------------
    As a result of the upcoming transformation of society’s culture, the need for a single party that clearly expresses public interests will also disappear, because the moral and ethical differences between its members and the rest of society will also disappear (in other words, the party will expand informally to the borders of the whole society).
    -------------------------------------
    And then the party of state power in a society of conceptually powerful people is the only party that society will need to feed.
    ----------------------------------
    Walking and seeking will overpower the road, and views, worldview, world outlook are the result of true morality.
    -------------------------------------
    Thus, on the basis of developing a qualitatively different culture, a personnel base must first be formed on which the head of state, working in the interests of the people, can rely, and only after that is a message to the people with an openly expressed vector of social development goals, which can become a guide to action.
  43. LCA
    LCA 14 November 2017 21: 23 New
    0
    The objective laws that govern the life of human society (both in terms of ensuring security and in terms of various kinds of security threats and the known harmfulness of certain types of activities) can be divided into six categories.
    -------------------------------------------------
    --
    In each of them, the laws have one or another effect on each other, as well as on the laws of other categories, since the World is one and whole:

    1. Humanity is part of the biosphere, and there are objective laws governing the interaction of the biosphere and Cosmos, the formation of biocenoses and the interaction of biological species within the biosphere.

    2. Humanity is a specific biological species, and there are specific biological (physiological and psychological) species laws that govern its life.

    3. There are moral and ethical (noospheric, egregorial and religious) laws governing the relationship between the owners of reason and will. And contrary to the opinion of many, the laws of this category go beyond the limits of human society, and ethics dictated from hierarchically higher levels in the organization of various kinds of systems are obligatory for hierarchically lower levels and deviation from its norms is punishable.

    Accordingly, the apostasy from righteousness - morality inherent in the Almighty - is the main moral and philosophical cause of the biosphere-social ecological crisis.

    4. The culture that mankind genetically predetermines is varied, and there are sociocultural patterns, following which guarantees the stability of society in the continuity of generations, and their violation can lead to its disappearance during the life of several generations under the influence of degradation processes.

    5. The historically established culture of all societies of the current global civilization is such that we are forced to defend ourselves against the natural environment by the technosphere. The technosphere is reproduced and developed in the course of economic and financial activities, and there are financial and economic laws that determine both the development of socio-economic formations and their degradation and collapse.

    6. All this together can lead to conflicts of interest and conflicts of different types of activities, the resolution of which must be managed. And there are objective laws of management that are common to all management processes, whether it is a baby riding a tricycle or a complex project implemented by several states on the principles of private-state partnership.

    The question is: Which of the deputies of various levels and senators are able to talk about them and how the draft laws being developed and the approved laws are consistent with them?

    The answer to this question is sad: No one.

    But in reality the situation will be even worse: They will not even understand what they are being asked about.
    Accordingly, none of them will be able to answer an alternative question:

    How are these patterns violated by bills and passed laws?
  44. badens1111
    badens1111 14 November 2017 21: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: Mikado
    then Lenin and Trotsky can be called the same talkers.

    Mikado, do not distort, Lenin is one figure, Trotsky’s rubbish is another.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 14 November 2017 22: 24 New
      +2
      Mikado, do not distort, Lenin is one figure, Trotsky’s rubbish is another.

      I do not distort anything, Vlad. In relation to our country, they were in the "same cage", and worked together.
      And it is not Lenin and Trotsky. I’m just trying to emphasize that, from the point of view of pre-revolutionary Russia, they can also be regarded as pests-pests. And from the point of view of the USSR, the same figures can be considered the Tagged Bear and Benya the alcoholic. And, by the way, both of these (unprintable word) were brought up not by the West, but by their own communist party! angry
      you need to consider your mistakes. The fact that such people arose in the party (as well as Yakovlev, Shevarnadze, etc., “leaders”, many of whom became patronized by feudal lords after the collapse of the Union — what else can be called the permanent presidents of the “Union republics”?) Only testifies to the crisis of the party itself - decomposition, satiety, stupidity, admission of extra people to their ranks, and admission of the growth of these people "along the party line" (Gorbachev’s example will come down? Grew up! The party has grown out of combine harvesters, although it would be better to charge the toilets according to their minds)! This is not the influence of the West, I emphasize again - the domestic "good intentions" have tried in many ways.
      1. badens1111
        badens1111 14 November 2017 22: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: Mikado
        In relation to our country, they were in the "same cage", and worked together.

        No, Trotsky tried to play his own game; they outplayed him, along with his friends from behind a puddle.
        It’s not for nothing that the gentlemen are tearing their throats of every color, vehemently defending Trotsky, filmmakers take pictures, tales tell about the organizer of the Red Army and so on ..
        Quote: Mikado
        And, by the way, both of these (unprintable word) were brought up not by the West, but by their own communist party!

        Unfortunately, the late CPSU, like EP today, is a bunch of those characters ..
        Quote: Mikado
        you need to consider your mistakes.

        Need not argue.
        Quote: Mikado
        only testifies to the crisis of the party itself - decomposition, stupidity, admission of extra people to their ranks!

        Khrushchev began.
        But these are all things of bygone days, isn't the situation now more interesting?
        All the same, the film was shot recently and caused a wave of screeching, Sleeping people mean, it has much more realities under it than the tales of all kinds of different Olgovichs and Teterins.
        Think about why such a movie was shot, but not a warning to which part of society.
        Quote: Mikado
        decomposition, stupidity, admission of extra people to their ranks!

        Alas, this is now no better.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 14 November 2017 22: 52 New
          +1
          Alas, this is now no better.

          I agree ... what
          1. badens1111
            badens1111 14 November 2017 23: 02 New
            +3
            About identity .. I would like better. But we have what we have.bully
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 15 November 2017 17: 07 New
        +1
        / bMikado, you are absolutely right: both "Tagged," and the EBN and Shevardnadze and all the rest with the education of the CPSU. In my opinion, the post-Stalin period only. Yuri Vladimirovich was a serious leader and only he could save the Union, and M. S.on was an honest balabol. Perhaps you remember the “bearded” joke about horse heads: 1 brain and tongue are large, 2 brain is slightly smaller and the tongue is worse, and in a third of the brain there is no, but the tongue is very long.
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 15 November 2017 17: 56 New
          +1
          so the fact of the matter is that the "party elite" has degenerated. Yes, Stalin had no successors. But in what way was "activity" supported under Stalin? The most severe responsibility, "not replaceable" was not. You can argue about whether this is good or bad, ad infinitum. hi
  45. Head Physician
    Head Physician 14 November 2017 21: 53 New
    17
    Yes, the images are familiar
    Youth
    Thank you for reminding me
  46. Operator
    Operator 14 November 2017 23: 33 New
    +5
    The ardent Russophobia of Karl Mordechai (Marx) and Vladimir Blanc (Lenin) is a direct consequence of Jewish policy aimed at the destruction of the Russian Empire, the number of Jews in which in the XNUMXth - early XNUMXth centuries was the largest among all the states of the world, while the Jews were defeated in their rights ( Pale of Settlement, residence of Jews in ghetto - towns, a ban on higher education, occupation of government posts, etc.).

    The RSDLP was originally organized under the auspices of the Jewish Bund, the top leadership of the Menshevik and Bolshevik wings was infiltrated by Jews, the organizers of foreign financing of the RSDLP were American (Schiff) and German (Parvus) Jews who emigrated from Russia.

    The greatest achievement of Jewish policy was achieved in December 1922, when the Jews managed to break up the federal state (RSFSR) and create a confederation (USSR) of national republics with the right of free exit.

    For 30 years, Stalin did not manage to liquidate the confederation, his successors slammed his ears, as a result, Russia in 1991 lost Little Russia, Belarus, Moldova, the Baltic States, Transcaucasia and Central Asia (hopefully, temporarily).

    Every supporter of Marxism is a vehicle of Jewish politics, so he must be deported from Russia to his “historical homeland” in order to become familiar with the Jewish invention - communism in the kibbutz.
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 14 November 2017 23: 35 New
      +5
      Quote: Operator
      Jewish politics

      You for sure.
      The nonsense that you have threshed is precisely that notorious hutspa, the bolder the lie, the more innocent people will believe in this balcony.
      Goebbels's covenants do you fulfill?
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 15 November 2017 16: 49 New
      +1
      My friend Operator, I agree with you ninety percent, because, besides the Jews, the RUSSIAN EMPIRE was also destroyed by the Russians. In addition to Blanks and Co. there were others, but the power was in the first. EVEN STALIN was unable to completely free the Politburo from them
  47. tiaman.76
    tiaman.76 15 November 2017 00: 11 New
    +1
    interesting .. yes interesting .. it is a pity that both of these nemchury could not survive until May 1945
  48. avva2012
    avva2012 15 November 2017 07: 30 New
    +3
    Olgovich,
    There are thousands of SOVIET documents of that time, they are published, I read them ("The Tragedy of the Village Council", 3 volumes), but you do not.

    "The first volume of this publication is a scientific publication of documents on the history of the Soviet village on the eve of collectivization (1927 - November 1929). With few exceptions, the documents included in the collection are published for the first time. They are identified in the collections of the largest central archives (RCCHIDNI, CA FSB RF, GARF, RGAE, RGVA) and the State Archives of the Novosibirsk Region. The collection distinguishes the species diversity of published documents. The degree of their secrecy is different: from the neck "Top secret. To be burned in situ " to documents published in periodicals of that time. A significant part of the materials was previously inaccessible to researchers and declassified only in recent years in connection with the preparation of this publication. In addition to various documents related to the activities of the GPU - NKVD, the collection includes materials from “special folders” that contain the decisions of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU (6) with the heading “secrecy”.
    This is the license for this book. Dear colleagues, no one knows. what kind of beast is this: “Top Secret. To be burned locally? ”
  49. kalibr
    15 November 2017 09: 10 New
    +2
    badens1111,
    Afraid, of course. Here we have MICHMAN - he is not afraid. Doctor of Science, a big boss ... not afraid ... Not everything that he writes on humanitarian aid I like is even surprising. But ... well, you are another matter - peremptorily accuse everyone of lies, but keep quiet about the dugout and salary ... Ugly and stupid. Are you afraid of what they will directly tell you - oh, the turner went to judge ... the joiner. Good luck. And of course, judge, speak out in, for there are comments here. But remember your place. The editor of Voprosy istorii has his own, RFBR reviewers have his own, and you ... too!
    1. badens1111
      badens1111 15 November 2017 11: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      MISMAN

      I respect Michman. Then what?
      Will it become easier to see from my physiognomy?
      And your attempts to somehow offend me, others who, unlike you, have a completely different opinion about the development of the country, are ridiculous, like your simulated snobbery.
      Bad old man. It’s bad that you treat your fellow citizens like that.
      Quote: kalibr
      You are another matter - peremptorily accuse everyone of lies, but keep quiet about the dugout and salary ..

      When they give you a link to the opinion of people respected in the scientific community, you immediately get into a fuss, because you are not able to argue with them.
      So why make noise, about salaries and dugouts, you then, at one time, obviously did not live in the dugout, owing your education to the very power that you are now blaming by all means.
      Tell you about salaries or about the declining purchasing power of the population?
      Tell you about pensions, which have lost in their value compared to 2010, two-thirds of their content?
      You poorly know the society in which you live, swimming in the clouds of a liberal dope.
      Quote: kalibr
      What is here? "Farmyard"?

      Through the efforts of a group of anti-Soviet and Russophobia, sometimes yes.
      1. kalibr
        15 November 2017 11: 48 New
        +1
        I don’t need your physiognomy, but who and what - I wouldn’t refuse to see you in my personal letter, and I don’t have to tell me anything about salaries and pensions. In general, I don’t need it. I specifically asked you to say where do you get your salary from, who do you work for? And about the dugout, you also did not answer. All these are attempts to get away from simple answers to simple questions. And what are my attempts to offend you? In what I call you a baker? If you were a candidate of historical sciences (at worst) or a doctor, there would be a different conversation. It surprises you, it’s not my fault that I’m used to talking like that. Bakers do not prove anything. You have your own "respected" people - I am mine. So your links to me, only rub ... And you do not need beautiful phrases about dope clouds. This is ridiculous ...
        1. badens1111
          badens1111 15 November 2017 15: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          If you were a candidate of historical sciences (at worst) or a doctor, there would be a different conversation.

          The presence of these degrees does not say anything about the mind and abilities, as well as moral and business qualities. I have every right to say so, on the basis of knowledge of my relative, who is still fat lobbling and has been in the heat of the past 90 years, .n. and dohtur with a prohvessorom in one bottle.
          Quote: kalibr
          You have your own "respected" people - I am mine. So that your links to me, grind only ..

          Oh how ... what are you trying to prove here with your footcloths about the recent past? Who are your authorities? Brewers or something? Teeth? Yeah ...
          Quote: kalibr
          Where do you get your salary from? And about the dugout

          My salary is from the state, to which I gave almost 30 years of service, an apartment, from the USSR, did you want to hear that?
          1. kalibr
            15 November 2017 18: 19 New
            +1
            "The presence of these degrees does not say anything about the mind and abilities, as well as moral and business qualities," - so everyone says who does not have them.
            I don’t know who the Brewers and Teeth are, I was not interested. I have my own circle - Chumikov, Bocharov, Musician ... There was a very interesting series of articles by Morozov in the Rodina magazine - it was very interesting, it didn’t "lodge". I always recommend reading it, but something ... is unsuccessful. But in vain. You shake the footcloths, they were laid to you by pleasure, not me. And the salary ... that is, you do not hesitate to take money from the state of oligarchs, stranglers of the communist ideology and apologists for the bourgeois lifestyle, traitors, so to speak, of the holy USSR? This is what I wanted to hear.
            1. badens1111
              badens1111 15 November 2017 18: 40 New
              +2
              Quote: kalibr
              livjournel

              Ha..here’s right there, it’s published that your musicians are erased in such a way that you can’t see a trace, and indeed not only there. For 1000 book rubbish of the proprietary lies of nga, the period of the history of the USSR is hardly 1 normal, why are you afraid that And they read that normal one, and 1000 paper trash in the trash and throw it away.
              Quote: kalibr
              Chumikov, Bocharov, Musician.

              I don’t know at all. why these friends of yours are saddened, but the fact that you rest against “I don’t know” Zubov and Pivovarov Yuri, alas, here you are darkening something .. the last Inion burned, to this day did not answer ..
              Quote: kalibr
              And the salary ... that is, you do not disdain to take money from the state of oligarchs

              This is a call, do not disdain, and I, unlike you, get a salary not from these useless ones, but from taxes that my fellow citizens donate to the treasury, you confuse private sharashka of various kinds of private security companies with the Army.
              Quote: kalibr
              This is what I wanted to hear.

              It is bad when, with such an aplomb, I heard not what was said, came up with what was not said, and made my own conclusion, giving a lie.
        2. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 16 November 2017 04: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: kalibr
          If you were a candidate of historical sciences (at worst) or a doctor, there would be a different conversation. It surprises you, it’s not my fault that I’m used to talking like that. Bakers do not prove anything

          A somewhat loose presentation of the article "On Intelligence" by G. Ivolgin,
          the journal "Inventor-rationalizer", No. 12, 1986, S. 39

          We were taught that a sign of intelligence is culture, but not the culture that many associate with higher education, graduate school, for an educated person can be a boor, and the culture that an illiterate person is endowed with is an ability to respect. The ability to respect the other, the ability to respect what you don’t know, the ability to respect bread, land, nature, history, knowledge of others, opinion, therefore, the ability to self-respect, self-esteem, and most importantly moderation in everything, i.e. . the ability to not gobble up and not to get enough.
          For a slave, a beggar, is always guzzled and fed up, regardless of his financial situation. Gorges himself by feasting, gorges himself with love, gorges together, throws out bread, chases away a woman, repels a friend.
          He is a slave - well-fed, he burps and despises everything that he has eaten and takes revenge on what he longed for and hungered, hungered and hungry. Satiety - such an imaginary freedom from worldly things, when already full, such supposedly spirituality. Turns with a cloudy gaze, to still push it away, get dirty, break it.
          This is supposed to have nothing - to starve, only the hungry he still retains a human appearance and is capable of compassion and understanding, because, having gulped up, he has exhausted his hungry desire for freedom, and now his rudeness is becoming - freedom. Because again, what he didn’t have, didn’t own, and now, tearing himself to convince himself of his freedom, he spit on everything that helped him become the possessor of what he was striving for and so shamefully was not ready for possession.
          An uncivilized person will never become an intellectual, because he does not strive for knowledge, but for his external evidence of diplomas, positions, salary, believes that appointment to a post or diploma is equivalent to competence and considers it less than his dignity to communicate with those who do not have such attributes : degrees, titles, positions, the value of which he exaggerates.
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 16 November 2017 05: 48 New
            +2
            Very much in the subject, like a portrait. I will add one more excerpt from a more famous author, at least for most. Anton Pavlovich Chekhov. “Excerpt from a letter to brother Nikolai”: “You have only one drawback - this is your extreme bad manners. Educated people must meet the following conditions: They respect the human person, and therefore they are always condescending, gentle, polite, compliant ... They are compassionate not only for the poor and cats ... They are sincere and afraid of lies like fire. Do not lie even in trifles. Out of respect for the ears of others, they are often silent. They do not humiliate themselves in order to arouse sympathy in others. They are not vain. They are not occupied with such fake diamonds as meeting celebrities. Making a penny, they do not rush with their folder on 100 rubles. If they have talent, they respect it. They sacrifice peace for him, women, wine, vanity ... They cultivate aesthetics in themselves. "
  50. kalibr
    15 November 2017 09: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: badens1111
    here is not a social event

    It's a pity! What is here? "Farmyard"?