Military Review

Aviation against tanks (part of 10)

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According to the decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the USSR Council of Ministers from 16 December 1976, the work on the creation of a new-generation combat helicopter was officially started. His main task was to be the fight against enemy armored vehicles, fire support for ground forces, escorting his own assault helicopters and fighting with enemy helicopters.

Army aviation it was 100% equipped with Mi transport and combat helicopters, and when creating a promising combat helicopter, which was supposed to replace the Mi-24, for some time the design bureau named after M.L. Mile. But the main competitor of the "Milevts", the collective of the OKB named after N. I. Kamov, did not waste time in vain. Based on the experience of creating deck-based Ka-25 and Ka-27 in Lyubertsy near Moscow on the basis of the Ukhtomsky Helicopter Plant, work began on the design of a new generation combat vehicle with a coaxial propeller circuit.

Of course, the coaxial scheme has both advantages and disadvantages. Among the minuses - the relative bulkiness, complexity and high cost and weight of the coaxial carrier system. It is also required to exclude an overlap of screws rotating towards each other when performing energetic maneuvers. At the same time, the coaxial scheme compared with the traditional single-screw has a number of significant advantages. The absence of the tail rotor can significantly reduce the length of the helicopter, which is especially important when deck-based. Power losses on the tail rotor drive are eliminated, which allows increasing the thrust of the rotors, increasing the static ceiling and vertical climb. In practice, it has been proven that the helicopter carrier system of a coaxial circuit with an equal power plant power average 15-20 is, on average, more efficient than a single-rotor helicopter. At the same time, the vertical rate of climb is higher by 4-5 m / s, and the increase in altitude reaches 1000 m. A helicopter with a coaxial carrier system is capable of performing maneuvers that are impossible or very difficult to repeat on a helicopter of a traditional scheme. So, the helicopters of the “Kamov” company demonstrated the ability to make energetic “flat” turns with large slip angles, in the entire range of flight speeds. This not only improves the landing characteristics and allows you to compensate for gusts of wind, but also makes it possible to quickly orient the sights and weapons towards the target. Due to the more modest geometrical dimensions of the helicopters of the coaxial scheme, with the same flight weight and power density, they have smaller moments of inertia, which gives the best maneuverability in the vertical plane. The absence of a vulnerable tail rotor with intermediate and tail gearboxes and control rods has a positive effect on increasing survivability.

Compared with the “Milevskaya” machine of the traditional scheme and layout, the design of the “Kamovsky” helicopter contained a large novelty ratio and a number of fundamentally new technical solutions that were not previously used not only in domestic, but also in world helicopter engineering. The design of the helicopter, which received the working designation B-80, from the very beginning was carried out in a single version. This provoked fierce criticism of the opponents of the project, but the designers of the “Kamov” company hoped that, thanks to the use of highly automated aiming-flight-navigation complex and advanced long-range guided weapons, it would be possible to surpass all existing and future combat helicopters in combat effectiveness. In order to provide tracking of the detected targets and targeting missiles on them without the pilot's participation, the helicopter, which later received the designation Ka-50, installed an all-day television automatic aiming system "Shkval". The television image stabilization system and the automatic tracking device, based on the principle of memorizing the visual image of the target, has a narrow and wide field of view, angles of deflection of the line of sight: by elevation from + 15 ° - −80 °, in azimuth ± 35 °. Target detection in the automatic scanning mode is possible at a distance of up to 12 km. Having discovered and identified the target on a television screen, the pilot captures and begins to approach. After the transition to the automatic tracking of the target to reach the permitted range, the rocket is launched. In the cockpit of the helicopter indicator is installed on the background of the windshield of the ILS-31. The composition of PrPNK "Rubicon" integrated helmet helmet of the pilot "Obzor-800". Targeting is carried out by turning the head of the pilot within ± 60 ° horizontally and −20 ° ... + 45 ° vertically. The Squall sighting system was also tested on an anti-tank modification of the Su-25T attack aircraft. As well as on attack aircraft, the main weapons "Kamovsky" helicopters were to be long-range supersonic anti-tank "Whirlwind" with laser-guided. ATGM 9K121 "Whirlwind" with a guided missile 9М127 transferred to the tests in the 1985 year.

In 80-s of the last century, "Whirlwind" had very high characteristics and had no analogues. The defeat of small targets was possible at a distance of 10 km. With a missile flight speed of up to 610 m / c, the distance in 4000 m it flew over 9 with. This allows you to consistently fire several targets and helps reduce the vulnerability of the helicopter during the attack. The range of missile launches exceeded the effective zone of destruction of the then army mobile air defense systems of the NATO countries: ZAK M163 Vulcan, AMX-13 DCA and Gepard, MIM-72 Chaparral, Roland and Rapier. Moreover, during exercises conducted at the end of 80-x, when performing conditional attacks at extremely low altitude and masking themselves against the terrain, carriers of the Vikhr ATGM system often managed to replay the Tor system, which was the latest at the time.

Aviation against tanks (part of 10)

Launch ATGM with Ka-50


The cumulative-fragmentation warhead of the Vikhr anti-tank missile system is capable of penetrating 1000 mm homogeneous armor. Thanks to the use of the leading cumulative charge, modern Tanksequipped with "reactive armor". The main purpose of guided anti-tank missiles is the destruction of enemy armored vehicles and partly small-sized ground targets such as individual firing points and observation posts. However, during the tests it turned out that the Shkval equipment is capable of stably tracking and illuminating objects in the air with a laser rangefinder-target designator, while the 9M127 ATGM can be aimed at low-speed air targets flying at a speed of up to 800 km / h. Thus, a combat helicopter with full-time armament, in addition to its main task, was able to actively combat enemy combat helicopters, turboprop transport aircraft and A-10 attack aircraft. To destroy air targets ATGM "Whirlwind" are equipped with a non-contact fuse with a radius of 2,5-3 m.


ATGM "Whirlwind", a NAR B-8B20A and 30-mm gun on a Ka-50 helicopter


In addition to anti-tank missiles, the helicopter had to carry the entire range of unguided weapons already used on the Mi-24. But thanks to the highly automated method of using guided weapons and unguided rockets is almost the same. Different are displayed only aiming marks, which is a sign of the selected weapon. The action algorithm is the same; therefore, the pilot does not experience any additional difficulties when launching a NAR.



The designers managed to achieve high accuracy of shooting from the onboard 30-mm gun 2А42. This was largely due to the installation of the gun in the strongest and toughest place in the fuselage - on the starboard side between the sub-gear frames. The coarse aiming of the cannon takes place “by plane” - the helicopter's body, and the precise aiming in the aisles of 2 ° to the left and 9 ° to the right and + 3 ° ...- 37 ° vertically - by a stabilized hydraulic drive connected to the tele-machine of the Shkval complex. This makes it possible to compensate for fluctuations in the body of the helicopter and to achieve high accuracy of fire. The Ka-50 outperformed its rival Mi-28 by approximately 2,5 by the accuracy of shooting. In addition, on the "Kamov" car, the ammunition of the gun was 500 shells, which was 2 times more than the Mi-28. The gun has a variable rate of fire and selective power, with the possibility of choosing the type of ammunition.



Cockpit security paid close attention. The total weight of the armor exceeded 300 kg. Armor was included in the power structure of the fuselage. To protect the cabin used armored plates from the combined spaced aluminum-steel armor. The cabin sides withstand the impact of 20-mm projectiles, and the flat glass of the cockpit with armor-piercing rifle caliber bullets. A single cabin made it possible to reduce the weight of the armor and get a noticeable gain in the mass of the helicopter and improve its flight characteristics. An important factor was the reduction in inevitable losses during the course of hostilities among crew members, and the possibility of reducing the cost of training and maintaining flight crews. In the event of a helicopter receiving critical combat damage, the rescue of the pilot was provided by the K-37-800 ejection system. Before the ejection took place shooting blades rotors.

Traditionally, the helicopter was equipped with passive defenses: sensors for warning of laser irradiation and a receiver for warning of radar radiation, devices for shooting IR traps and dipole reflectors. The car also implemented the entire available set of measures to increase combat survivability: armor protection and shielding of important components and systems less important, duplication and separation of hydraulic systems, power supply, control circuits, ensuring transmission transmission efficiency for 30 min without lubrication, filling fuel tanks with cellular polyurethane foam damping hydraulic shock, their retrofit, the use of materials that maintain their performance in case of defeat of the structural elements of force. The helicopter has an active fire extinguishing system.

The helicopter with a long streamlined aircraft fuselage, since the first prototype appeared, made a great impression on those who had the opportunity to see it. It combined the fact that it had never before been used in the practice of world-class helicopter manufacturing on one sample: a single-seat cabin with an ejection seat, a retractable landing gear, and coaxial rotors.


The first copy of the B-80


The first flight in the circle of an experienced B-80 with onboard number 10 took place on July 23 1982. This copy, designed for testing new units, choosing the optimal variant of tail empennage and evaluating flight performance, had “non-native” TVZ-117В engines, the prototype lacked weapons and a number of standard systems. In August, 1983, the second copy was passed for testing. On this machine, the gun was already mounted and the upgraded TVZ-117ВМА engines were installed in the take-off mode 2400 hp. The second copy of the airborne number 011 held working off PrPNK "Rubicon" and weapons.

In 1984, comparative tests of B-80 and Mi-28 began. Their results became the subject of discussion at a special commission created from the leading experts of the aviation industry and experts from the Ministry of Defense. After a rather lengthy and sometimes heated discussion, most of the experts leaned toward the "Kamov" machine. Among the advantages of the Ka-50, there was a greater static ceiling and high vertical rate of climb, as well as the presence of a promising long-range missile system. In October, the order of the Minister of Aviation Industry I.S. Silaeva on the preparation for serial production of B-1984 in the Primorsky Territory at the Progress Arsenyevsky Plant.

It would seem that a new combat helicopter should have a cloudless future. But a large proportion of fundamentally new technical solutions, the unwillingness to use a number of electronic systems and guided weapons on combat vehicles slowed down the process of testing and fine-tuning the Ka-50. So, despite all the efforts, it was not possible to bring the low-level Mercury television target complex, intended for combat use at night, to an acceptable level of efficiency. Also, the fact that the Whirlwind ATGM and laser guidance equipment was not built in series played a role. For the tests, single specimens of 9М127 missiles collected at pilot production were supplied. Due to the low reliability of the Squall sighting system in control firing, she often refused.


One of the first cab options Ka-50


Initially, the Ka-50 was supposed to fight at any time of the day and in adverse weather conditions. But the designers of the helicopter overestimated the possibilities of the Soviet electronics industry. As a result, we managed to bring the avionics to the acceptable level, providing piloting of the helicopter day and night in simple and complex meteorological conditions, but effective combat use is possible only during the day. Thus, through no fault of the helicopter developers, it was not possible to fully unleash the full potential of the machine.



Only in 1990, the decision of the Commission on Military-Industrial Issues of the Council of Ministers of the USSR was issued on the production of an installation batch of Ka-50 helicopters. In May, the 1991 of the year at the Progress plant in Primorye began testing the first helicopter built here. The official adoption of the Ka-50 took place in August 1995.



According to advertising information distributed at aerospace exhibitions, a helicopter with a maximum take-off weight of 10800 kg with an internal fuel reserve of 1487 kg has a flight range of 520 km (with PTB 1160 km). The maximum speed in horizontal flight is 315 km / h, on a dive - 390 km / h. Cruising flight speed is 260 km / h. Ka-50 is able to fly sideways at a speed of 80 km / h and back at a speed of 90 km / h. The static ceiling of the flight is 4200 m. At the external nodes of the suspension can be placed combat load weight up to 2000 kg. At the same time, the number of B-8B20А blocks for 80-mm NAR, compared with the Mi-28Н, with the possibility of an ATGM suspension, is more than 2 times. The total purely ATGM “Whirlwind” on board can reach 12 units. In addition to anti-tank missiles, a NAR and a cannon, air combat missiles P-73 can be suspended to fight an air enemy. The Ka-50 included an X-25ML laser-guided missile, which significantly increased the helicopter’s ability to destroy high-security, highly sensitive and critical targets. For transportation of cargo on the external sling, the helicopter is equipped with an electric winch.



Ka-50 is able to perform some aerobatic figures that are inaccessible to other helicopters of the classical scheme. So on tests the combat maneuver "funnel" was worked out. Its essence was that at a speed from 100 to 180 km / h the helicopter carried out a circular movement around the target, flying sideways with a negative pitch angle 30-35 °. At the same time, the target can be constantly kept in the field of view of the onboard surveillance and sighting systems.

A simpler piloting technique compared with the Mi-24 and Mi-28 and high maneuverability played a bad joke with the Kamov machine. The ease of control and confidence in their abilities dull the pilots caution, which in some cases led to serious consequences. And the helicopter remained obedient until the last moment, without warning about the danger. The first Ka-50 disaster occurred on 3 on April 1985 of the year. While preparing for the helicopter show to the highest military-political leadership of the USSR, test pilot Yevgeny Laryushin crashed due to entering outrageous modes on a vehicle with onboard number 10. During the investigation of the accident, it turned out that it had happened on a working machine, because the pilot had exceeded the permissible negative overload when performing an unsteady spiral reduction at a speed of less than 40 km / h. After studying the materials of the investigation of the heavy flight incident, the Air Force experts recommended making changes to the control system to “grip” the controls when the blades were approaching dangerously and the helicopter was brought to unacceptable values ​​of roll and overload. For the same reasons, the maximum operational overload was limited to the value of 3,5 g, although the car could withstand without consequences and more. The maximum permissible speed was also seriously reduced, although during the dive trials the helicopter accelerated to 460 km / h. The flight manual limits the allowable angle of heel to ± 70 °, pitch angle ± 60 °, and angular rate of travel along all axes by ± 60 degrees / s. On tests Ka-50 repeatedly performed the "dead loop", but later this aerobatics figure was considered too dangerous.

However, these security measures and restrictions were not enough, the second disaster of the Ka-50 occurred 17 June 1998. The serial combat helicopter under the command of Major-General Boris Vorobyev, Chief of the Center for Combat Use of Army Aviation, crashed due to the impact of the propeller blades. Despite the vast experience of the pilot and his highest qualification, the machine was put into supercritical flight mode. After the destruction of the carrier system, the helicopter, diving at an angle of more than 80 °, collided with the ground. Due to the low altitude of the flight, the pilot did not manage to eject and died. This tragic event caused great damage to the development program of Kamov war machines, and was used by opponents of the Ka-50 to discredit it. There are still claims that the coaxial carrier system is unsuitable for use on military helicopters because of its high vulnerability and the possibility of overlapping screws when performing intensive maneuvering. However, comparing the carrier coaxial system and the characteristics of the tail boom with the tail rotor on helicopters of the classical scheme, it is absolutely obvious that the latter’s vulnerability is much higher. In addition, the coaxial propellers can only be cleared in flight modes, which are guaranteed to destroy the helicopter design with tail rotor screw.

The first public presentation of the Ka-50 took place in the 1992 year. In January, 1992, a report was read out at an international symposium in the UK, which revealed some details regarding a combat helicopter. In February of the same year, the Ka-50 was demonstrated to representatives of the defense departments of the CIS countries at the exhibition of aviation equipment at the Machulishche airfield in Belarus. In August, 1992, one of the prototype prototypes took part in demonstration flights on the Zhukovsky near Moscow. In September, the serial Ka-50 was shown at the international air show in the British Farnborough. One of the prototypes with onboard number 05 starred in the feature film "Black Shark". Filming was mainly conducted at the Chirchik training ground, not far from Tashkent. During the years of the Afghan war, pilots of army aviation underwent training there. After the film was released, the name “Black Shark” literally “stuck” to the helicopter.

According to the information published by the Russian Helicopters holding, taking into account the experienced prototypes of the B-80, the X-NUMX Ka-17 helicopters were built. The helicopter was formally in the series before the 50 year. It is clear that such an insignificant number of combat vehicles could not significantly increased the shock potential of the Army Aviation. However, two Ka-2008 from Torzhok as part of a combat strike group (BUG) took part in the hostilities in the North Caucasus.



The purpose of the formation of BUG was to work out the concept of using the Ka-50 as a single combat complex. In addition to the combat helicopters, the Ka-29VPNTSU reconnaissance target was also involved in the combat tests. Before being sent to the zone of the “counter-terrorist operation”, the avionics and helicopter protection were modified. At the end of 2000, the Ka-50 and Ka-29VNSTUs arrived at the Grozny (Northern) airfield. After familiarization flights and reconnaissance of the area in January, BUG pilots began flying with the use of weapons of destruction against ground targets. Flights for combat use were carried out in groups: a pair of Ka-50 and Mi-24, as well as a pair of Ka-50 with the participation of Ka-29. In difficult mountain conditions with unpredictable, rapidly changing weather, the Ka-50 showed their best qualities. Both high thrust-to-weight and controllability and the absence of a long beam with tail rotor screw, which significantly facilitated piloting in narrow gorges, had an effect. One of the Ka-50 during the launch of the NAR at the extremely low altitude received combat damage to the rotor blade, but was able to safely return to the home airfield.



Most of the targets were in remote mountainous terrain, at an altitude of up to 1500 m. At the first stage of combat use, the main targets for strikes were: militant concentration sites, camps, dugouts, shelters and ammunition depots. At the final stage of combat tests, the Ka-50 flew to the “free hunt”, conducting a search for targets using their own means of reconnaissance. During the sorties, 80-mm NAR C-8 and 30-mm guns were mainly used. The use of ATGM "Whirlwind" was quite rare. This is due both to the lack of worthy targets in the form of enemy armored vehicles, and to small stocks of guided missiles of this type. During the performance of combat missions during 49 departures, 929 NAR C-8, almost 1600 30-mm projectiles and 3 ATUR "Whirlwind" were spent.

During combat tests in the North Caucasus, the viability of the concept of using automated PrPNK on single-seat combat helicopters, which removed a significant load from the pilot, was confirmed. The experience of the Ka-50 combat operations in Chechnya showed that the PrPNK Rubicon allowed the use of the entire range of airborne weapons in one approach for different purposes. To effectively hit targets in narrow mountain gorges and other hard-to-reach places, it was necessary to use all the maneuverability capabilities of the helicopter and its altitude characteristics. In this case, the high reliability of the coaxial helicopters and their combat survivability was confirmed.

The main drawback that emerged from the results of the combat mission to Chechnya was the impossibility of effective work in the dark. The task of all-day combat use was set up even at the issuance of a technical task at the end of 70-x, but the practical implementation of this direction began only in the middle of 90-x. In Ka-50H in 1997, one of the serial helicopters was remade. The first flight of the converted machine took place on March 5 1997 of the year.


Ka-50N


Soon, a helicopter with night gear paired with the Ka-50 from the Center for Combat Use of Army Aviation recovered to the international exhibition of weapons YUEX'97, which ran from 16 to 20 in March in Abu Dhabi. According to a number of media reports, the Victor thermal imaging equipment manufactured by the French company Thomson was used at the night modification of the Black Shark. The import nodes were included in the national combined optical-electronic system “Box-50T”.



The equipment of ECO “Box-50T” was mounted on a gyro-stabilized platform in a moving ball with a diameter of 640 mm. The spherical head mounted in the nose compartment of the fuselage above the optical window of the standard day-to-day laser-television complex “Squall” has one large and three small windows. OES "Box-50T" at night provides the detection of single objects of armored vehicles at a distance of at least 7 km and pointing weapons from 4,5-5 km. In addition to the optoelectronic equipment on the helicopter, known as Ka-50Sh, the installation of the Arbalet radar station, satellite navigation system, liquid crystal display with the output of a digital terrain map was provided. The nomenclature of the armament of the daily modification does not differ from the serial Ka-50, but at the same time the possibilities for using the weapon at night have been significantly expanded. In the future, despite the encouraging test results, the night modification of the Black Shark was not serially built, and the results obtained were used on the Ka-52 two-seater.

17 June 2017 of the year turned 35 years since the first flight of the prototype (B-80) of the Ka-50 helicopter. But, unfortunately, the machine, which had outstanding combat and flight characteristics, was built in a very limited series. The formal adoption of the "Black Shark" into service coincided with the time of "economic reforms" and a total reduction in defense programs. Despite the enormous interest from foreign intelligence services, overseas buyers traditionally prefer to buy cars built in large batches, which cured the main "children's sores." In addition, as already mentioned, the Whirlwind guided missile complex also remained of limited production, and there were no guarantees that the Ka-50 supplied for export would be equipped with the necessary quantities of missiles in the future. According to rumors leaked to the media, in the 90s, Western intelligence agencies attempted to acquire one helicopter for "the purpose of familiarization." At that time, the most modern weapons, including the latest fighters and air defense systems, left the CIS and Russia for the West. Fortunately, our “western partners” did not manage to “hook” the “black shark”.

According to the Military Balance 2016, there are currently no Ka-50 military aviation helicopter shelves in the military aviation regiments. Several vehicles in flight condition are located on the territory of the Ukhtomsky helicopter plant and at the 344-th Center for combat training and retraining of flight personnel of the Russian army aviation in Torzhok. Where used in various kinds of experiments, for the development of weapons systems and avionics, as well as for educational purposes.



9 September 2016 of the Year in the Far Eastern Arsenyev on the Square of Glory a monument to the Black Shark Ka-50 helicopter was solemnly opened. The basis for the monument served as a glider helicopter, built at the aircraft factory "Progress" more than 20 years ago.

Despite the scanty order for the construction of the Ka-50 for the Russian Armed Forces and the failure of supplies for export, the management of the Kamov company made considerable efforts to advance its combat helicopter. In particular, to participate in the tender announced by Turkey in the 1997 year, work was started on the creation of a double modification Ka-50-2 Erdogan. The Turkish Ministry of Defense, up to 2010, in the framework of the ATAK program, wanted to get 145 modern anti-tank helicopters. In addition to the Russian company Kamov, applications for participation in the competition were submitted: the European consortium Eurocotper, the Italian Agusta Westland, the American Bell Helicopters and Boeing.

Since the Turks wanted to get a double car with avionics and armament of the Western standard, the Israeli firm Lahav Division, which was part of the company Israel Aerospace Industries, was recruited as a subcontractor. In March, 1999, the company "Kamov" showed the customer a prototype, built on the basis of the Ka-50 helicopter. In fact, it was a semi-finished product, with a double cabin, borrowed from the Ka-52, and partially equipped with new avionics. Alterations of the airframe design mainly affected the front of the fuselage, which made it possible to keep the dimensions of the Ka-50. In addition to the cockpit, the most noticeable external change was a larger wing with six points of suspension. Flight data compared with the single-seat prototype did not change much. The maximum take-off weight, which was increased by 500 kg, was planned to be compensated after the installation of TV3-117ВМА engines with HP 2200 power. A double helicopter with such a power plant could reach a maximum speed of 300 km / h, cruising - 275 km / h.

At the request of the customer, the helicopter armament has undergone processing. Instead of Russian Whirlwind guided anti-tank missiles, AGM-114 Hellfire ATGMs, 80-mm NAR C-8 ATGMs were supposed to replace 70-mm Hydra missiles, and the powerful 30А2 wanted to replace the 42-mm gun with a 20-mm gun, XNUMX-mm XNUMX-XNUMX wanted to replace the XNUMX-mm gun with a XNUMX-mm XNUMX-mm gun XNUMX-XNUMX. The crew had to have a developed complex of electronic equipment, providing search and detection of targets with the subsequent use of all available weapons. The avionics developed by Lahav Division had an open architecture and was built according to existing Western standards. The main means of observing and detecting targets was to be the HMOPS optical-electronic sighting system with stabilized day and night channels. The composition of the onboard equipment was supposed to introduce a laser range finder-tseleukazatel.


Layout Ka-52-2 with tandem crew layout


From the very beginning, the Turks showed themselves to be very capricious partners. The requirements for the appearance of a combat helicopter changed several times during the competition, which implied a number of noticeable changes in the design. At a certain stage, the customer did not arrange the cockpit layout: the Turkish military expressed a desire to get a helicopter with a tandem crew arrangement, like in western-made combat helicopters. In September 1999, the Turks were presented with a full-size model Ka-50-2, which met the requirements. After that, there was a question about financing the construction of a real prototype. However, it soon became known that the American AH-1Z King Cobra from Bell Helicopters was selected as the winner of the competition. After that, the Turkish side began to demand the establishment of licensed production at home and the transfer of a number of secret technologies. In this case, the customer was ready to pay for the construction of only 50 machines. The Americans considered such conditions unacceptable, and the deal fell through. As a result, the Turks chose the most budget option presented by the Italian company AgustaWestland. A combat helicopter, created on the basis of A129 Mangusta, should be built at the enterprises of the Turkish company Turkish Aerospace Industries. A total of 60 prospective anti-tank helicopters are planned.



At the design stage of the single Ka-50, it was planned to create a two-seat command vehicle unified with it according to the airframe with an improved onboard reconnaissance complex, designed to coordinate the actions of the battle group of attack helicopters. The production of the prototype double began in 1996 at the Ukhtomsky helicopter plant. For this purpose, the glider of one of the serial Ka-50 was used. On the single-seater car, the front part of the fuselage was dismantled, instead of which a new one was docked, with the arrangement of pilot jobs “shoulder to shoulder”. Ka-52 inherited about 85% technical solutions applied to Ka-50. In order to select the optimal variant, a two-seat machine was used to test several aiming-viewing systems. The helicopter with the side number 061, painted black and with a large inscription on board the "Alligator", was first presented to the public 19 in November 1996 of the year.


The first copy of the Ka-52


The crew enters the cockpit through the flashlight flaps that open up. Helicopter controls are duplicated, which allows Ka-52 to be used for training purposes. Compared to the Black Shark, the Alligator’s weapons and sighting equipment were seriously changed. Initially, the SSE "Samshit-E" was installed on the two-seater car in the upper part of the fuselage just behind the crew cabin. By its characteristics, this apparatus is in many respects similar to the one that was tested on the Ka-50Н. In the future, the two-seater car received more advanced avionics, allowing it to operate at any time of the day.

The adjustment of the Alligator avionics to the level that would suit the military continued until the 2006 year. In 2008, simultaneously with the end of the first stage of state testing of the Ka-52, it was decided to issue an installation batch. The armament of the army aviation helicopter entered the 2011 year. According to Military Balance 2017, the Russian armed forces have more than 100 Ka-52. According to Russian sources, the total ordered 146 "Alligators".

In the process of refining the latest series of helicopters, a multifunctional complex of the new generation "Argument-2000" with an open architecture was installed. It consists of: two-channel radar RN01 "Crossbow-52", PNK-37DM flight and navigation system, round-the-clock aerobatic system TOES-520 with a spherical head under the nose of the cockpit, communications equipment BKS-50. All the necessary information is displayed on the multifunctional color displays and helmet-mounted indicators of the pilots.



The radar "Arbalet" provides data for sighting and navigation systems, informs about air targets, warns of obstacles when flying at low altitude and dangerous meteorological phenomena. According to the advertising brochures of the Kamov company, a radar with an antenna in the nose is installed on the Ka-52 variant with the most advanced avionics. It is designed to search and attack ground targets, as well as to perform low-altitude flight in difficult weather conditions and at night. Another radar channel with a supra-antenna antenna provides a circular control of the air situation and notifies the crew about rocket launches. Under the nose of the "Alligator" is the GOES-451 optoelectronic system with thermal imaging and TV cameras, a laser range finder, a target indicator, an ATGM guidance system and TOES-520 instrumentation for night flights. The detection and recognition range of targets during the day is 10-12 km, at night - 6 km.



The unguided and artillery weapons of the Ka-52 remain the same as on the Ka-50. But in part of the guided anti-tank weapons was taken a step back. One of the main advantages of the Ka-50 over the Mi-24 and Mi-28 in the past was considered the possibility of using long-range and high-speed guided missiles "Whirlwind". However, it was not possible to adjust the mass production of the Vikhr ATGM. On serial Ka-52 installed ATGM 9K113U "Storm-VU" with ATGM "Attack". In contrast to the early modifications of the Sturm with the radio command guidance system, new missiles can be used from carriers with instrumentation of a laser-beam control channel. The Alligator’s arsenal includes 9М120-1 missiles with a tandem cumulative warhead designed to combat armored vehicles and 9М120Ф-1 volume-detonating warheads. The maximum firing range - 6000 m.



The desire to maintain the security of the cabin, components and assemblies at the level of the single-seater, the installation of the new avionics and the workplace of the second pilot led to an increase in the take-off weight of the Ka-52 helicopter, which in turn could not but affect the flight data. The normal take-off weight of the two-seater helicopter increased by 50 kg compared to the Ka-600, and the static ceiling fell by 400 m. The increase in the weight of the vehicle and the increase in drag resulted in a drop in maximum and cruising airspeed. In order to compensate for the deterioration of the main characteristics of the helicopter, the designers did a great job. So, after blowing through the wind tunnel, the shape of the front part of the cabin was chosen, which in its frontal resistance became close to a single Ka-50.



The speed and the ceiling of the helicopter were able to be tightened after installing more powerful turboshaft VK-2500 engines. Thanks to the implemented improvements, the Ka-52 is capable of performing the same figures in the air as the Ka-50.

In June 2011, a contract was signed between Russia and France for the construction of two universal landing ships-helicopter carriers of the Mistral type. The composition of the air group of each ship was supposed to include 16 combat and transport-assault helicopters. Naturally, only Ka rotorcraft could claim this role in our country. In the past, the Ka-1174 transport and combat helicopter was created for basing on the Soviet BDK, pr. 29, which, in addition to delivering cargo and landing, was able to provide fire support and combat enemy armored vehicles. In 2011, the Navy had three dozen Ka-29s that could be overhauled and these machines after repair were still able to be in active operation for 10-15 years. And here is a modern deck-based attack helicopter in the Russian navy did not have.



Therefore, simultaneously with the conclusion of the contract for the Mistrals, the accelerated development of the deck version of the Ka-52 began. Already in September, 2011 showed footage from the exercises in the Barents Sea, during which the helicopter, designated Ka-52K Katran, landed on the helicopter platform of the Vice-Admiral Kulakov AX 1155. The purchase order for the 32 deck helicopters was made in April 2014. The construction of the Ka-52K is being carried out at the Progress plant in Arsenyev. 7 March 2015, the first flight of the Ka-52K shipborne helicopter built at the Arsenyev Aviation Company Progress named after NI Sazykin took place.


Ka-52K


The main characteristics of the Ka-52K are inherited from the base model, but due to its specific purpose there are a number of differences in the avionics and design. To save space on the ship bearing coaxial screws and wing consoles are made folding. The chassis is reinforced, the main components and assemblies are sea anti-corrosion treatment. The avionics and armament of the carrier-based combat helicopter as a whole had to correspond to the capabilities of the most advanced Ka-52 modification. However, there is information that "Katran" on high-lift consoles will be able to carry anti-ship missiles X-31 and X-35, as well as target designation of the coast-based missile systems "Ball". But to implement these plans, the helicopter must be equipped with an on-board radar with a range of detection of surface targets of at least 200 km. It is possible that the Ka-52K will also receive additional opportunities for the use of anti-submarine weapons.

There is reason to believe that the main part of the Katrans, built to be placed on the Mistrals that were not delivered to Russia, will be sent to Egypt. As you know, this country has become a buyer of the French UDC. Information about the Egyptian order is contradictory: a number of sources state that 46 Ka-52K should go to the country of pyramids. However, this number is several times greater than the needs of the Egyptian Navy, and it is likely that we are also talking about helicopters that are designed by the Air Force. The contract worth about $ 1,5 billion provides, in addition to the supply of helicopters, also after-sales service, the purchase of spare parts and the training of pilots and ground personnel. The export value of one Ka-50 is estimated at $ 22 million, which is slightly higher than the cost of the Mi-28H, but significantly lower than the price of ApH Longbow AH-64D (Block III).

In March 2016, several Ka-52 reinforced the Russian air force in Syria. After adaptation to local conditions and missions for additional exploration purposes, starting from April, they are used in various combat operations.



Observers note the significant role of the "Alligators" in the battles for the liberation of Palmyra. Helicopters mainly inflicted massive strikes with unguided rockets on militant positions. But in some cases, the use of ATGM against Islamist vehicles and armored vehicles at night was noted. The TAKR air group “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov”, which carried out a military campaign to the Syrian coast, also had two deck-mounted Ka-52K.



Today, combat helicopters in the Russian army are not only a powerful means of fire support, but also, perhaps, the most effective anti-tank force. At the same time, a paradoxical situation has arisen in our country, when, simultaneously with combat helicopters of the Mi-24 family, two new types are operated with close fire capabilities: Mi-28Н and Ka-52. Although back in Soviet times, Ka-50 was declared the winner of the competition announced as part of the creation of a promising combat helicopter, the leadership of the “Mil” firm, using its connections in the Ministry of Defense and the government, managed to push through the adoption of Mi-28Н, which has no advantage before the "Kamov" machines. The situation is aggravated by the fact that if the onboard aiming and viewing systems of the new helicopters are significantly superior to the similar equipment of the “twenty-two”, then the complexes of guided and unguided weapons are practically the same. As in Soviet times, the main anti-tank weapons installed on serial domestic helicopter gunships are the anti-tank systems of the Sturm family. It is surprising that the Russian modern helicopter gunships with highly sophisticated surveillance and sighting systems and mm-range airborne radars in the ammunition do not have guided missiles with semi-active radar seekers. As is known, ATGMs with radio command and guidance along the “laser path” are relatively cheap, but their use, as a rule, is possible only for visually visible targets. Radar-guided missiles have the best capabilities while firing multiple targets; they are subject to less restrictions on use in difficult weather conditions and at night.

To be continued ...

Based on:
http://www.vertopedia.ru/articles/show/14
http://www.helicopter.su/pressa/novosti/2017/06/17/ka_50/
http://lemur59.ru/node/9468
http://aviaros.narod.ru/ka-50.htm
http://www.nnre.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2003_08/p37.php
http://www.airforce.ru/content/daidzhest-1/208-proverka-boem-podlinnaya-istoriya-boevoi-udarnoi-gruppy/
https://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/23/mistral2/
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/ka-50-2/
http://www.nnre.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_2003_08/p38.php
http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/navy/vertolety_ka_52k_dlya_mistraley_vpervye_vzletyat_v_2015_godu/
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201705210935-zjzh.htm
The Military Balance 2016
[media = https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = s7at2IMuFD]
Author:
Articles from this series:
Aviation against tanks (part of 1)
Aviation against tanks (part of 2)
Aviation against tanks (part of 3)
Aviation against tanks (part of 4)
Aviation against tanks (part of 5)
Aviation against tanks (part of 6)
Aviation against tanks (part of 7)
Aviation against tanks (part of 8)
Aviation against tanks (part of 9)
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  1. Amurets
    Amurets 9 November 2017 07: 48
    +6
    Sergei. Thank. A lot of interesting.
  2. andrewkor
    andrewkor 9 November 2017 08: 12
    +1
    When you see the Ka-50,52 in action movies (22 minutes, etc.), just UH !!!
  3. FID
    FID 9 November 2017 09: 19
    15
    Sergey, now, I'm in sorrow .... Then what? Design Bureau Kamov merged with Design Bureau Mil, no designers (young managers do not count), then WHAT? This is a cry in the desert, I understand. This applies to our entire aircraft industry .... Once upon a time, a certain Gaidar E.T. (his father would have disowned him a long time ago, by the way, a certain Nikonov - how does he hiccup?) said - we’ll buy everything .... Did you get better? Sorry, the article is good!
    1. Bongo
      9 November 2017 09: 57
      13
      Quote: SSI
      Sergey, now, I'm in sorrow .... Then what?

      Hello, Sergey Ivanovich! Long time you were not ... In sorrow is not only you! sad In general, I am far from helicopter engineering and wrote this publication based on "open sources" and common sense. But on the other hand, I know quite well how things are with the domestic element base used to create the avionics of domestic aircraft. This is really sad! crying
      1. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 9 November 2017 10: 18
        +5
        Thank you Sergey! Good article. hi
        To bookmarks!
        1. Bongo
          9 November 2017 10: 19
          +5
          Quote: Stroporez
          Thank you Sergey! Good article.

          drinks
      2. FID
        FID 9 November 2017 11: 59
        +8
        Quote: Bongo
        Hello, Sergey Ivanovich! Long time you were gone ...

        I try to always read your articles when I’m in the country ..... It’s always very informative and entertaining sometimes ...
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 10 November 2017 13: 42
          +3
          Quote: SSI
          FID

          Greetings and very glad to see you! Where are you now recovering lost positions? Who will come for your generation?
          How is our mutual VAF Friend doing?
          1. FID
            FID 10 November 2017 13: 53
            +6
            Quote: Stroporez
            Greetings and very glad to see you! Where are you now recovering lost positions? Who will come for your generation?
            How is our mutual VAF Friend doing?

            It seems to me that no one will come for us ... I apologize, did not say hello, I welcome you! The younger generation does not understand and does not accept work for the sake of an idea ... Pay, we will work, but work, because it is NECESSARY, well, I don’t know ... I worked with KAPO (on business trips) in 70 shifts, for 3 salaries, and now how ... who knows?
          2. Bongo
            10 November 2017 14: 18
            +3
            Quote: Stroporez
            How is our mutual VAF Friend doing?

            Good evening! Sorry to interfere, but Sergey (aka vaf, aka ancient), apparently decided to part with Military Review. This is unfortunate, we all really miss it. Last time I talked with him about six months ago, I hope that he has everything in normal mode.
      3. venik
        venik 9 November 2017 15: 51
        +5
        Quote: Bongo
        But on the other hand, I know quite well how things are with the domestic element base used to create the avionics of domestic aircraft. This is really sad!

        ==========
        Alas, Sergey !!!! This is the eternal misfortune of our microelectronics !!!! We once (back in the days of the USSR) on the “Day of the Physicist” (yes, yes !! It was like that!) Hung a banner (really small) over the “entrance” (Research Institute of Semiconductors) - “Soviet microcircuits - The largest microcircuits in the world ! " (The "rustle" was - "Mama Do not Cry" !!!!!)
        1. KKND
          KKND 9 November 2017 16: 54
          +2
          Quote: venik
          Alas, Sergey !!!! This is the eternal misfortune of our microelectronics !!!!

          The people, can someone explain to me what the backwardness of Soviet electronics is, given that we produced more radars than Western countries combined (air defense, ship, aircraft, etc., etc.)?
          Only without myths please.
          1. GSPDJGneva
            GSPDJGneva 9 November 2017 18: 38
            +5
            Quote: KKND

            The people, can someone explain to me what the backwardness of Soviet electronics is, given that we produced more radars than Western countries combined (air defense, ship, aircraft, etc., etc.)?
            Only without myths please.

            Easy) Our Party did not take into account scientific and technological progress. The basis were taken 8-bit processors i8080. So all the electronic stuffing of ship-aircraft-missiles (you will not believe but even five eight-bit processors in the S-300) was built on outdated principles.
            Only in the mid-90s they began to switch to 16-bit and 32-bit processors (the S300PMZ complex (s400) already with Elbrus 90 micro processors)
            So your Iphone is one million times more computationally efficient than the S400
            1. KKND
              KKND 9 November 2017 18: 46
              +3
              Quote: GspdjGneva
              Easy)

              Yeah, the myths in smoking rooms are easy to explain. What does it have to do with 8-bit 16-bit and 32-bit processors and the highly sophisticated electronic industry of the scoop.
              And in desktop processors they were inferior, that’s the whole explanation of the backwardness of the Soviet radio-electronic industry from “sofa computer boys”.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. ZVO
                ZVO 9 November 2017 21: 22
                +5
                Quote: KKND
                Quote: GspdjGneva
                Easy)

                Yeah, the myths in smoking rooms are easy to explain. What does it have to do with 8-bit 16-bit and 32-bit processors and the highly sophisticated electronic industry of the scoop.
                And in desktop processors they were inferior, that’s the whole explanation of the backwardness of the Soviet radio-electronic industry from “sofa computer boys”.


                A dumb example.
                A modern signal processor for audio or video embedded in the workstation, such as what is on your smartphone, is much closer to military use, for example, in video processing systems of thermal imagers, GOS systems - than Elbrus-4C, the audio signal chip is much better suited to use processing alarms at sea ...
                there is a small step really small.
                The same line of Sigma - after a little refinement can be adapted for these purposes.

                And since the development of digital signal processors went exactly on the wave of domestic use .. well, there 2K, 4K video signals, audio cards developed to suit the consumer, software in the form of encoders-decoders - there was a development of design ideas.
                But with us, no.
                There was nowhere to develop. there was nowhere to compete.
                As a result, there are no technologists or architects. neither algorithms nor encoders.
            2. EvilLion
              EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 43
              0
              You won’t believe it, but NASA for the shuttles had to buy 8086 processors on e-be. It’s not necessary to think that in industry electronics change how you have a video card in order for new toys to go. Less than 10 years, the system should not work in principle. F-22 built on 20 MHz processors, and only now they put on 200 + MHz.

              What is a million you also do not know, as well as you do not know that on C-400 there is not only an ordinary CPU. Different kinds of DSPs in iPhones are somehow not very common, but radars mostly process signals.
          2. venik
            venik 9 November 2017 19: 58
            +6
            Quote: KKND
            The people, can someone explain to me what the backwardness of Soviet electronics is,

            ========
            Yes, please, "as much as you like." Here are just 2 facts:
            In the USSR, the “output” of microcircuits was approx. 1-2% (the remaining 98-99% went "to marriage" !!!). In the "West" (states, Germany), the output was 95-97%, in Japan - approx. 99% !!!
            The gain of the very popular P-416B transistor “walked” within 20-60, while the spread of its western counterpart (the name unfortunately forgot) was only 62-64. Imagine how tormenting the “tuning” of devices with these transistors was!
            Another example: There were 2 "personal" "Electronics" in our department (I don’t remember the digital index). A kind of box with a built-in tiny monochrome display and extremely limited capabilities .... Their average working time was .... 2 (two!) Working days, after which they stupidly failed ... (the absolute record was 4 days of work) . Further call of adjusters, two-week waiting, at least two more days of adjustment (this is if you did not have to wait for any spare parts). After which the "production cycle" was repeated ...... Already in the early 90s received the first IBM-286. Not only that, the RAM, speed there was ORDERING higher, so they, infections, also did not break !!!! Well, something like that, about the element base ..... And you are here about the number of radars, where we were "ahead of the rest" .......
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 48
              0
              And Stalin personally shot a billion. You would at least think that you are carrying.

              And about the "we were" personal "do not tell. It was only for you girls.

              As for the output, even to me, a person who is far enough from electronics manufacturing, it is known that the optimal production conditions are not known in advance, they have to be selected, in the process we get a lot of partially working circuits, if at all possible, and it happens that the yield is extremely low. NVidia developed a similar situation from the ones I knew when they released the sinful GeForce FX. About any 99% eligible they then were out of the question.
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 38
            0
            The fact that she did not have enough money. And the radars, which I somehow don’t know, why did you get that more, only one of the areas.
      4. shuravi
        shuravi 9 November 2017 20: 18
        +1
        This is noticeable, especially as they managed to find the navigators-operators on Mi-24V and P. laughing
      5. EvilLion
        EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 35
        0
        And the EBN is also to blame for the element base?
    2. KKND
      KKND 9 November 2017 15: 16
      +3
      Quote: SSI
      Sergey, now, I'm in sorrow .... Then what?

      Sergey Ivanovich, I probably ate something wrong today, but the Americans have a similar situation. A huge defense budget, 1 billion people under command, military bases around the world. And we are 150 million and we successfully resist them.
      The question is what do Western designers do? For a long time already flying saucers should have done wassat So do not give up, even if our designers lost their qualifications, their designers suffered the same fate.
      P.S. Everywhere the population has become stupid because there has not been a big war for a long time.
      1. GSPDJGneva
        GSPDJGneva 9 November 2017 19: 32
        +3
        Quote: KKND
        And we are 150 million and we successfully resist them.
        The question is what do Western designers do? For a long time already flying saucers should have done wassat So do not give up, even if our designers lost their qualifications, their designers suffered the same fate.
        P.S. Everywhere the population has become stupid because there has not been a big war for a long time.

        That's how interesting F22 flies successfully for more than 20 years, they even considered it unnecessary to make them thousands of pieces. Like to gain air supremacy in a military conflict with ANY the country will last 2 weeks and the existing equipment. And we all threaten that the T50 is better ????
        laughing laughing That is, you, yes, yes, it was you who managed to notice stupor of the population?
        1. KKND
          KKND 9 November 2017 21: 02
          +2
          Quote: GspdjGneva
          That's how interesting F22 flies successfully for more than 20 years, they even considered it unnecessary to make them thousands of pieces.

          He entered the military units only in 2005, what 20 years ?.
          They didn’t consider it, because the enemies, as they thought not, were expensive, but we rose again.
          Quote: GspdjGneva
          . Like to gain dominance in the air during a military conflict with ANY country, 2 weeks and the existing equipment will be enough.

          This must be proved by a real combat clash, not by expert articles and training fights. Hitler also "thought" when he attacked, and he got into the dirt with his face laughing
          Quote: GspdjGneva
          And we all threaten that the T50 is better ????

          The usual propaganda for our near-by population, the Americans are doing exactly the same, although I am against it.
          Quote: GspdjGneva
          Oh, you, yes, yes, it was you who managed to notice the stupor of the population?

          This is my personal opinion and I do not pretend to be objective.
          By the way, the question is "computer boy" when did 4-core desktop PCs appear? In 2006? And how many 4 nuclear workers are on sale now? Progress is evident.
          But this is offtopic
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 50
            0
            Well, the Western military-industrial complex should pray at PAK FA. True, PAK FA is conceptually truly the only aircraft that can now be considered correct and promising.
      2. venik
        venik 9 November 2017 20: 20
        +2
        Quote: KKND
        but the Americans have a similar situation. A huge defense budget, 1 billion people under command, military bases around the world. And we are 150 million and we successfully resist them.

        =========
        Is that, "Yankees" 1 billion ??? You respected them for an hour, did not confuse the Chinese? Those for sure - a billion "too much" ...... Geography at school had to be taught !!!! A "Yankees" approx. 300 million!
        And as for the designers .... In the early 90s (even under the Union), our research institute was "visited" by one Amer scientist (quite well-known in our circles) was like ... looked .... fucked ... He was especially surprised by the assembly " on nozzles "system of non-destructive quality control of semiconductor crystals. I was amazed at her performance ... When I left, I threw the phrase: "It's your happiness that you are so poor! You do not have money for" normal "Japanese equipment, so you came up with a NEW technology !!! It’s not in vain that we are called Russians" sprained brains "!!!"
        1. KKND
          KKND 9 November 2017 20: 52
          +4
          Quote: venik
          Is that, "Yankees" 1 billion ??? You respected them for an hour, did not confuse the Chinese? Those for sure - a billion "too much" ...... Geography at school had to be taught !!!! A "Yankees" approx. 300 million!

          As if I don’t know how many Yankees, I’m generally talking about the Western World, the Golden Billion. Where do you think the owners sit? In America or Switzerland? I don’t know either, but they sit somewhere and own the Golden Billion. And even they are afraid to contact North Korea, where is there to fight with us ?.
          Well, about your story, you need to be proud of Russian minds. Always with us, Russian Land was rich in talents. And not the legs to raise and run will surrender to the Golden Billion.
          Although we are stupefied on average, the West is no better either.
          1. venik
            venik 10 November 2017 22: 29
            +2
            Quote: KKND
            Well, about your story, you need to be proud of Russian minds.

            ==========
            Well, Duc, but what about WHAT? TOPIC and Proud !!! Yes !, "our minds are" dislocated ", but WHAT !!!!!
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 51
            0
            Who needs it, this is your Sev. Korea ... She, as a harmless scarecrow is more useful.
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 34
      0
      Yes, sadness, when will you finally retire and stop whining that there is no one to work, some grandfathers are left, etc.
  4. garri-lin
    garri-lin 9 November 2017 09: 49
    +8
    Such machines need a long arm. It is not clear why there is no work on modern ATGMs. Hermes is not remembered. The unique Whirlwind managed to grow old without going into the series. But it could become a platform for the whole family.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 52
      0
      Another "Whirlwind" in the series did not go. Well, at least open the "Wiki" or something.
  5. sivuch
    sivuch 9 November 2017 10: 32
    +5
    They write that Whirlwind-1 is produced
    The first batch of guided missiles "Whirlwind-1" delivered to the customer - the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. This was announced by Alexey Krivoruchko, General Director of the Kalashnikov Concern, which includes OAO Izhmash NPO, where this weapon is manufactured. According to the head of Kalashnikov, by the end of 2015, the company intends to fulfill all its obligations under the previously concluded state contract, the total amount of which is about 13 billion rubles. According to its leader, serial production of products has already been established at the production site.
    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201510260
    805-dyan.htm
    I would not want to think that Mr. Krivoruchko is brazenly lying
    Yes, and in Syria have already used
    The Mi-28N “Night Hunter” and Ka-52 “Alligator” helicopters successfully used the Ataka-1, Vikhr-1, and Igla missiles during an operation in Syria, said the deputy chairman of the military scientific committee of the Russian Armed Forces Chief of the General Staff, Lieutenant General Igor Makushev.
    RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/syria/20170825/1501095276.html
    1. Bongo
      9 November 2017 14: 07
      +5
      Quote: sivuch
      They write that Whirlwind-1 is produced

      Igor, in what quantities? Again piece assembly in pilot production?
      Quote: sivuch
      I would not want to think that Mr. Krivoruchko is brazenly lying

      Maybe it doesn’t lie, so the serga embellishes it, it is very characteristic of our bureaucrats, both military and civilian.
      Quote: sivuch
      Yes, and in Syria have already used

      Against what goals? what

      Quote: sivuch
      The Mi-28N Night Hunter and Ka-52 Alligator helicopters successfully used the Ataka-1, Whirlwind-1 and Igla missiles during an operation in Syria ...
      The needle, according to the Islamists? wassat
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 9 November 2017 14: 45
        +2
        Sergey, how do I know how much? Everywhere they write about a contract for 13 billion rubles.
        Again, how do I know? I hope the goals are more expensive than the ATGMs themselves
        The needle could be on the UAV
        1. Bongo
          9 November 2017 14: 51
          +3
          Quote: sivuch
          The needle could be on the UAV

          Somehow I have little faith in this. request
          1. maximghost
            maximghost 9 November 2017 18: 34
            +3
            Could as in Afghanistan - at night to direct on the heated engines of cars.
        2. KKND
          KKND 9 November 2017 16: 48
          +3
          Quote: sivuch
          The needle could be on the UAV

          Eee barmaley got "Pre-regulators"? So that
          Quote: Bongo
          Somehow I have little faith in this.

          Me too
          1. sivuch
            sivuch 9 November 2017 17: 10
            +3
            Guys, with these questions in the MO, I am only quoting. And the Needle, in theory, could work on a smaller UAV. And it’s not necessary that it’s not a little barmalein.
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 56
          0
          In fact, the very fact of destroying the target and preventing the goal from causing harm in the future, as well as the disappearance of the need to chase the target again, justify the use of one ATGM with a chance of success, percent in 90, than falling asleep with a hail of NURSs with less chance of success.
      2. venik
        venik 9 November 2017 20: 24
        0
        Quote: Bongo
        The needle, according to the Islamists? wassat

        ========
        Do you think that the “Needle” can only beat air targets ??? Naive! It can be used FOR ANY "warm-contrast" (more precisely, by IR and UV contrast) goals !!!
        1. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 10 November 2017 07: 35
          +4
          Quote: venik
          Do you think that the “Needle” can only beat air targets ??? Naive! It can be used FOR ANY "warm-contrast" (more precisely, by IR and UV contrast) goals !!!

          Who Seryozhu did not call on VO only ... he and the alarmist and the enemy, and the agent of the State Department. But naive ... wassat Do you have confirmed the facts of the use of "Needle" from helicopters for ground targets? what Do not share?
          1. venik
            venik 10 November 2017 10: 20
            +1
            Quote: zyablik.olga
            Do you have confirmed evidence of the use of the “Needle” from helicopters for ground targets? what Do not share?

            ============
            From what! I will share! Firstly, it was said by one of the plant’s designers (the video about the Igla MANPADS was either at the Military Acceptance, or at the Zvezda shopping and entertainment complex ... I don’t remember now ...). Secondly, the R-60, with a much more primitive homing head, was often used in Afghanistan EXACTLY for GROUND purposes! Thirdly, since at one time I had some relation to the developments of the ICG seeker, I know absolutely for surewhat her (IR GOS) absolutely "on the drum"WHERE the target is (on the ground or in the air !!!), if only it differs from the "background" in IR or UV contrast !!! The only problem is that the “Needle” has a weak warhead, but in order to blow the hood to the head truck or fuel truck and “stall” the whole convoy - it quite enough!!!
            PS Never called Sergei "neither the enemy, nor the alarmist, nor the agent of the State Department" - do not believe me - look at my "comments" ATTENTIVELY !!!
            1. Bongo
              10 November 2017 13: 30
              +3
              Quote: venik
              Never called Sergei "neither the enemy, nor the alarmist, nor the agent of the State Department"
              Thank you Vladimir! But no one has blamed you for this!
              Quote: venik
              I will share! Firstly, it was said by one of the plant’s designers (the video about Igla MANPADS was either at the Military Acceptance, or at the Zvezda shopping and entertainment complex ...
              Sorry, but with all due respect, I can’t call these sources reliable. There is a lot of stupid propaganda that has nothing to do with reality.
              Quote: venik
              P-60, with a much more primitive homing head, was often used in Afghanistan EXACTLY for GROUND purposes!

              You can also nail nails with a microscope, but how rational is it? I hope to such an absurdity that we will not reach MANPADS to engage ground targets.
              1. venik
                venik 10 November 2017 22: 36
                +1
                Quote: Bongo
                You can also nail nails with a microscope, but how rational is it?

                =========
                In "afghan" it was VERY rationally! They beat at night on columns from Pakistan. And they hit on the “head” and “trailing” machines! After that, the “clogged” column (illuminated by torches in front and behind) was simply “stupidly” “hollowed out” by NURSES !!!
                Information - from the "helicopter pilot" - "Afghan"!
          2. CTABEP
            CTABEP 10 November 2017 17: 17
            0
            Yes, yes, somewhere I heard that these damned "Needles" are pointing carefully at the air conditioners. As soon as the selection of thermal noise on these units, which can be induced on the truck engine, I personally do not understand request .
            1. venik
              venik 10 November 2017 22: 40
              +3
              Quote: CTABEP
              Yes, yes, somewhere I heard that these damned "Needles" are pointing carefully at the air conditioners. As soon as the selection of thermal noise on these units, which can be induced on the truck engine, I personally do not understand request .

              =========
              Yes, if you saw them in the "thermal imager" (especially at night!), Then the question would be superfluous! They glow like a "flashlight in the night" !!!! (And not only the engine compartment, but ... WHEELS!) And the "bikers" .... Oooooo !!! These in-a-ah, for 5 miles it is visible !!!
        2. EvilLion
          EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 57
          +1
          It does not have a striking unit capable of piercing, more or less, thick armor.
    2. ZVO
      ZVO 9 November 2017 21: 33
      +3
      Quote: sivuch
      They write that Whirlwind-1 is produced
      The first batch of guided missiles "Whirlwind-1" delivered to the customer - the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. This was announced by Alexey Krivoruchko, General Director of the Kalashnikov Concern, which includes OAO Izhmash NPO, where this weapon is manufactured. According to the head of Kalashnikov, by the end of 2015, the company intends to fulfill all its obligations under the previously concluded state contract, the total amount of which is about 13 billion rubles. According to its leader, serial production of products has already been established at the production site.
      https://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201510260
      805-dyan.htm
      I would not want to think that Mr. Krivoruchko is brazenly lying


      Look for information on the report on the implementation of the State Defense Order in front of President Putin, including and Kalashnikov concern for 2015.
      this is called - a single day of acceptance of military products.
      The entire test batch of ATGM - sent to the supplier - 100% defect in everything.
      They didn’t even try to do the rest.
      A couple of thousand ATGMs did not join the troops.
      Kalashnikov then nakosyachil great.

      Quote from that document:
      Kirov plant Mayak did not deliver 326 guided missiles Vortex-1. The manufactured materiel did not pass the tests, the characteristics are not confirmed. The pre-production schedules of the enterprise are disrupted.
      A similar situation has developed for the supply of Vortex-1 rockets by the Kalashnikov concern. Not delivered 1972 guided missiles. Reasons: poor processing of design documentation and failure to carry out full-fledged production activities.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 10 November 2017 00: 08
        +2
        Those. 100% defect from the Lighthouse factory. But Kalashnikov in 2015 simply did not put anything (in the sense of ATGMs). And if in 2017 they shot something, then, apparently, it was Kalashnikov’s products.
    3. alexmach
      alexmach 12 November 2017 00: 54
      +2
      ABOUT! So this is the same Whirlwind for which the "Kalashnikov" failed the state defense order in 2015.
  6. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 11: 08
    +2
    Fir-trees! Well, what is it? Well, it’s impossible just like that ......, relaxing ... calmly hanging your ears on the back of a chair, reading an article without straining in anticipation of a dirty trick! So no! And here's the catch (!): The author stubbornly calls the Ka-50-2 "Erdogan" helicopter the Ka-52-2 helicopter ......! At the same time, not paying attention to the marking of the car, in the attached photo ..... well, there is a dumb Ka-52-2 Erdogan helicopter! Also, the author persistently offers anti-aircraft missiles with semi-active homing missiles. Is "horseradish radish sweeter"? What is the hypothetical missile with a semi-active strategic missile forces "better" modernized "Attack"? It’s easier to upgrade the existing Ataki radio command control system to a differential rangefinder system than to re-create a semi-active GOS. But it would be more correct to develop weapons with the principle: "shot and forgot" with the possibility of correction on the flight path. I’m not sure that the notorious “Hermes” is “the same thing.” I ran on the Internet about the beginning of the development of a new “specially designed helicopter” missile system .. most likely it will be similar to “Brimstone”, “Hellfire Longboy”.
    1. maximghost
      maximghost 9 November 2017 12: 38
      +4
      In general, there is an opinion among couch experts that for the time being the 3rd generation is essentially a toy. It seems like they have a very high price, with a very low noise immunity. So it can happen that during wars with an adversary who is serious about second-generation rebts, they can even be more effective, but there is no difference in a war against poits. I myself understand this in only the most general terms, but I would listen to one who understands normally.
      1. KKND
        KKND 9 November 2017 15: 56
        +6
        Quote: maximghost
        In general, there is an opinion among couch experts that for the time being the 3rd generation is essentially a toy.

        This opinion is common among Russian patriotic couch experts, since in modern Russia there are still no 3rd generation ATGMs in service. If he were, the speeches would be completely different.
        Quote: maximghost
        It seems like they have a very high price, with a very low noise immunity.

        3rd generation ATGM is a missile-operating missile. This principle can be implemented by installing on a rocket a radar or infrared or television homing head. And if television (smoke, dust, fog) and radar (electronic warfare, but with difficulty because there are troubles) you can still put interference, then the only option for interference against infrared is to hide the heat of technology, which is possible, but will be accompanied by at the cost of the technology that the ATGMs of 3 generations will seem penny and this system is not in service in more than one army in the world. Sorry, I could not find a video of this experimental coating of the technique that changes the thermal signature, but the cost of such coverage was clearly not small.
        By the way, fighting against ATGMs (2 generations) induced by a laser beam is easier than simple (smoke, dust, difficult weather conditions). That is, they are protected from interference worse than ATGMs (3 generations) with an infrared or active homing radar.
        The famous “Shtora” installed on Russian armored vehicles generally fights with obsolete 2nd generation ATGMs by giving the EMNIP light to the rocket tracer (it should be monitored by the complex’s devices) and can’t fight the word ATGMs of 3rd generation at all.
        Quote: maximghost
        So it can happen that during wars with an adversary who is serious about second-generation rebts, they can even be more effective, but there is no difference in a war against poits.

        Complete nonsense. Just in the war against the high-tech enemy ATGMs of 3 generations give a significant advantage. Technique can shoot 3 generation ATGMs and immediately fall over the shelter without staying in one place (a candle with a laser before a missile hits), holding a target until a missile hits (a missile flies, as a rule, not quickly, an anti-aircraft gun shell is faster).
        But against the poets, cheaper weapons are more appropriate.
        Hope enlightened you a little hi , although the "sofa expert" itself.
        1. sivuch
          sivuch 9 November 2017 17: 07
          +4
          While this is not entirely true, because. IR GOS (like Javelin's) takes about half a minute to capture a target, while an active radar head does it instantly. But this is before starting, i.e. the goal of Javelin is neither a dream nor a spirit. As for laser guidance systems, both semi-active and trails, usually the missile is guided in the machine and over the target, dropping just a few seconds before it hits. Of course, with an automatic tracking machine for anyone better than without it, but working time is like that of the second generation. The gain is only due to a higher rocket speed
          1. KKND
            KKND 9 November 2017 18: 30
            +3
            Quote: sivuch
            While this is not entirely true, because. IR GOS (like Javelin's) takes about half a minute to capture a target, while an active radar head does it instantly. But this is before starting, i.e. the goal of Javelin is neither a dream nor a spirit.

            Sorry. You think I don’t know this?
            "Maverick" does not require cooling, let in a computer simulator. And long-range radar will not capture the target, for example, at Longbow, the Hellfire with ARGS flies through inertia and GPS, and then the head captures the target.
            Quote: sivuch
            As for laser guidance systems, both semi-active and trails, usually a missile is fired in an automatic machine and over a target,

            No semi-active, as I suspect, yet it should shine on the target, but the path is yes.
            Quote: sivuch
            Of course, with an automatic tracking machine for anyone better than without it, but working time is like that of the second generation.

            And here I did not understand the Maintenance Assault and ATGM generation from the word at all.
        2. venik
          venik 9 November 2017 20: 31
          +1
          Quote: KKND
          Sorry, I could not find a video of this experimental coating of the technique that changes the thermal signature, but the cost of such coverage was clearly not small.

          =======
          Yes please!:

          Here you have the T-72B with a special cover "Cape" (several times reduces the detection range of the tank in the infrared range!). And by the way, cheap enough!
          1. KKND
            KKND 9 November 2017 21: 09
            +1
            I’m not talking about something else that can even turn a tank’s signature into a car and write letters with heat. I found it.
            Our solution is cheaper, but when the engine is running, it is clearly worse.
        3. alexmach
          alexmach 12 November 2017 01: 08
          +1
          then against infrared, the only interference option is to hide the heat of technology

          Hello to you. And shooting thermal traps? And blinding them with a special "headlight"?
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 16: 34
        +3
        3 generation anti-tank missiles (English Brimstone; American Hellfire Longbow) were used in "eastern" conflicts (Iraq, Libya), where they proved their high effectiveness. According to recent reports, these missiles are now equipped with the air force of the "international coalition" operating in Syria. At the same time, there were reports that shortcomings were revealed during the use of the Whirlwind missiles. There was even a statement that, if we compare the hit / miss ratio of NATO weapons with the hit / miss ratio of vortexes, the comparison does not in favor of Russian missiles. Although I think this comparison is not correct; NATO missiles were used by many dozens (and, one might even say, hundreds), and Russian missiles were "one or two ... and miscalculated" (perhaps an order of magnitude less).
      3. shuravi
        shuravi 9 November 2017 20: 43
        -1
        This is not only not a toy, but money wasted. Especially anti-tank missile systems with radar.
    2. Bongo
      9 November 2017 13: 39
      +8
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Fir-trees! Well, what is it? Well, it’s impossible just like that ......, relaxing ... calmly hanging your ears on the back of a chair, reading an article without straining in anticipation of a dirty trick! So no! And here's the catch (!): The author stubbornly calls the Ka-50-2 "Erdogan" helicopter the Ka-52-2 helicopter ......!

      Yes, you are absolutely right! Sorry, my jamb. recourse When writing a publication, the eyes are often “blurred” and such annoying bloopers appear.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 14: 51
        +4
        Bye-bye! Yes, I’m not completely angry "angry" ... wink
        1. Bongo
          9 November 2017 15: 04
          +4
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Bye-bye! Yes, I'm not completely angry, "angry."

          Thank you for noticing! You can of course edit the publication, but then it will drop out for several hours and will be inaccessible to readers.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 16: 05
            +4
            Quote: Bongo
            You can of course edit the publication, but then it will drop out for several hours and will be inaccessible to readers.

            Yes, readers, and so: all will understand, understand and ... forgive! hi
    3. KKND
      KKND 9 November 2017 16: 45
      +3
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Also, the author persistently offers anti-aircraft missiles with semi-active homing missiles. Is "horseradish radish sweeter"?

      Well, with a radar, several missiles could be aimed at several targets at once. So a little bit sweeter
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 16: 59
        +2
        Quote: KKND
        Well, with a radar, several missiles could be aimed at several targets at once. So a little bit sweeter

        Duc, and with a differential-range control system, you can direct several missiles ...
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 17: 03
          +2
          PS By the way, the radar is also "actively" used in the guidance system.
        2. KKND
          KKND 9 November 2017 17: 05
          +3
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Duc, and with a differential-range control system, you can direct several missiles ...

          And what kind of system is this? Do you offer a radar to measure the distance to the target and radio command missiles to the target? request
          Explain, it’s already become interesting.
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 17: 52
            +2
            Difference-range guidance system (hereinafter referred to as RD-system) is, as it were, a “hybrid” of radar and radio command guidance systems. After launching a rocket (missiles), the radar continuously measures the range and elevation of the target (targets) and missiles (missiles), developing radio control commands (correcting the flight ...) That is, a radar (for example, "Crossbow"), as it were, "assumes" certain functions of a semi-active radar seeker in the absence thereof on the rocket and while maintaining the radio command guidance system on the rocket. To some extent, this can probably be compared with the technical vision device (UTZ), with which Russian designers are trying to "replace" the thermal imaging seeker of foreign missiles.
            1. KKND
              KKND 9 November 2017 18: 33
              +3
              I understand what you are trying to say. Such a guidance system has not been used for a very long time due to, as I suspect, practically 0 interference immunity.
              1. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 10 November 2017 01: 37
                +2
                Almost all guidance systems (both active and passive) can be “exposed” to interference ... and have varying degrees of “stability / instability” to interference (well, maybe the acre of “autonomous” inertial ...). At the end of the past For centuries, Americans and the French were interested in (developing) the RD system. The Americans dealt with the RD system at the concept level for their adjustable bombs (they assumed that it would be cheaper, but with the same level of efficiency, of expensive thermal imaging "multi-mode" guidance systems). to my they got a ready-made rocket with an RD system. Then, interest in RD systems, indeed, disappeared ... But this could be caused not by the futility of these systems, but not by solved technical problems on that "technical and temporal" period (there were no AFARs, high-performance "miniature" computers ...) or the concept has changed ... (the "homing" concept has won). At the new "technical-temporary turn" this concept can be successfully implemented. Because this system aroused interest in such a "highlight" as the low cost of comparing GOS with the same accuracy the virtue of guidance ...
    4. alexmach
      alexmach 12 November 2017 01: 05
      +2
      Hellfire Longboy

      Long bow, long bow, like Robin Hood. What you wrote is rather a product from a specific store ... or a British anti-link bomb from World War II.

      Hello from the couch :)
  7. Taoist
    Taoist 9 November 2017 13: 19
    +4
    To the question of the "specifics of competition of our design bureaus" ...

    IMHO, but the Kamov machine could and should have become the main striking force. And now two cars are absolutely incompatible in operation ... Despite the fact that ...
    1. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 9 November 2017 16: 18
      +3
      Quote: Taoist
      To the question of the "specifics of competition of our design bureaus" ...
      IMHO, but the Kamov machine could and should have become the main striking force. And now two cars are absolutely incompatible in operation ... Despite the fact that ...


      There are never too many helicopters. This media is a weapon platform.
      The question is combat stability, operational costs and the modernization potential of each.
      The best will show itself.
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 9 November 2017 17: 07
        +5
        The issue is economics and not "choosing the best." To produce 100% duplicating each other machines for their intended purpose is by no means even luxury, stupidity.
        1. KKND
          KKND 9 November 2017 22: 07
          0
          Quote: Taoist
          The issue is economics and not "choosing the best."

          Well, the solution is of course “smart”, but there are pluses too. One plant "captured-blew up", we are releasing military equipment from another. wassat
        2. DimerVladimer
          DimerVladimer 10 November 2017 13: 17
          +3
          Quote: Taoist
          The issue is economics and not "choosing the best." To produce 100% duplicating each other machines for their intended purpose is by no means even luxury, stupidity.


          Look wider.
          It is rather not even a matter of implementing a production program.
          One plant is not able to provide a rearmament program.
          Two factories, even if producing equivalent equipment, will provide a larger volume of production, both plants will receive funds for re-equipment, R&D is more important than limiting troops to one type of attack helicopters.
          By supporting both helicopter plants, the state will receive two factories equipped with work, having experience in the production of more or less modern equipment, respectively, competitive equipment in the future.
          1. Taoist
            Taoist 11 November 2017 11: 21
            +1
            Perhaps, just for some reason, no one wants to take into account how much training costs for two duplicate but absolutely incompatible types of equipment, logistics, supply ... etc. What prevents two plants from producing one type?
          2. alexmach
            alexmach 12 November 2017 01: 20
            +2
            In your opinion, it is impossible to produce machines from one design bureau at two plants?
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 00
          0
          And in 2005, only Mi-28 could be produced at all. But, apparently, he will die on his own with time.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 9 November 2017 17: 22
        +4
        Quote: DimerVladimer
        The question is combat stability, operational costs and the modernization potential of each.
        The best will show itself.

        It is clearly explained ... Each machine (Ka-52, Mi-28Н) has its own "pros" and "cons". Here are the military and weigh these "pros / cons." It is possible that the "Syrian experience" will help the army team better determine their preferences. And it may remain so: Ka-52-to support special forces in their fight against "mountain barmaley"; and Mi-28 ... - anti-tank weapons and weapons of fire support of army units.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 03
          0
          Given that the Mi-28 has already merged numerically, this is not even funny. And taking into account the level of argumentation of the opponents of the nipple, and the increase in the share of electronics in the price of the helicopter, which makes the complexity of the nipple an insignificant factor, the conclusions can be only one.

          Yes, and manners in the direction of high-speed helicopters automatically lead to the nipple for purely technical reasons.
  8. venik
    venik 9 November 2017 14: 38
    +4
    Good evening, Sergey !!!
    The article, as usual, is "solid", for which THANKS !!! (+)
    That's just the name "let us down" .... It would be better if "Aviation over the Battlefield"!
    Well, the rest of the "hairpin" - a little later! There is no time now.
    PS We are waiting for CONTINUED !!!!
    Good luck !!!!!!!
    1. Bongo
      9 November 2017 14: 55
      +5
      Quote: venik
      The article, as usual, is "solid", for which THANKS !!! (+)

      drinks
      Quote: venik
      That's just the name "let us down" .... It would be better if "Aviation over the Battlefield"!

      This topic is immense ... wassat I still tried to write about cars that have pronounced "anti-tank inclinations." It is not the fault of technology that it is used mainly in "anti-terrorist" operations.
      Quote: venik
      PS We are waiting for CONTINUED !!!!
      Good luck !!!!!!!

      Thank! About the anti-tank capabilities of the Allied aviation at work.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. Raphael_83
    Raphael_83 9 November 2017 19: 28
    +5
    Wow, this is a parsing! SW My respect and lasting gratitude to Sergey (by the way, articles about “flying crocodile” and “night hunter” were also just “no words”) !!! hi fellow
    PS
    Here, cut without a knife, but until my death I will remain of the opinion that, ceteris paribus (a complex of portable weapons, etc.), the Kama machine is more perfect, technically more advanced (at the time of creation) and supposedly more effective in terms of the sum of qualities. I’m not fully judging from the couch - Dad was a “bummer” in the past, I saw enough of different flying mills, served and talked with knowledgeable people (but why go far - in our native Bashkiria, Kumertau, there was a Kamov plant).
    PPS
    Still, the widespread version that the military base unit did not look because of the single control seems to me not fully objective (Sergey outlines the level of automation of the machine in great detail).
    St. John's wort is more powerful, but its crew consists of three people who need time to agree. And the pilot of the Nevis does not need to negotiate with anyone - the computer helps him.
    (A. Orlov, "The Main Frontier").
    And it’s not the fault of the developers and designers in the “accuracy” of the domestic electronic product or the lack of resources, financing, etc. in the production of long-range high-precision - this is a question for organizing and administering at the very top of industrial-defense cooperation.
    By the way, uv. Sergey, you did not write about ABRIS, which, being just an objectively miserable navigator, was one of the most productive components of avionics and at the same time - not a match for today's computers - with ridiculous resource consumption, it had quite decent and sufficient characteristics for solving combat missions.
    Thanks again. hi
  11. shuravi
    shuravi 9 November 2017 20: 17
    -1
    What exactly did the author want to say?
    1. KKND
      KKND 9 November 2017 21: 27
      +3
      And what do you want from the Author on a resource where they believe in "plasma stealth coatings"? Where is the quality of the articles below the skirting board? Doctoral dissertation?
      1. aiden
        aiden 10 November 2017 03: 47
        +4
        then what are you doing on this resource? you need NI. why read the articles below the plinth. Write an article above the skirting board. as they say ## $$$ # not tedious bags. but how it comes down to it, they hide all the language in one place.
        PS. Thanks to the author, it was interesting
      2. shuravi
        shuravi 10 November 2017 10: 30
        -1
        I just don’t understand why stupidly stretch articles on 10 when the construct is not typed on one?
        1. Bongo
          10 November 2017 12: 54
          +6
          Quote: shuravi
          I just don’t understand why stupidly stretch articles on 10 when the construct is not typed on one?

          So instead of messing up the branch, write your own. So far, that is one negative from you. negative
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 11 November 2017 00: 34
            -1
            Composing in principle is not difficult. Another thing is that when you become familiar with how the material is presented here, you are horrified.
            For some reason, here we are sure that without even knowing the basic principles of combined arms combat, you can simply google information on the Internet to undertake such work.
            But alas, it turns out like in that fable of Krylov, about a monkey with glasses.
            And already somehow there is no desire to be in the same ranks with such “analytics”.

            Although I was surprised to find myself on this site. But I swear it was without my knowledge. laughing
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 12 November 2017 01: 38
              +3
              Your comments are absolutely useless. There is something to say constructive - say, do not pull the article, so invest in a paragraph of text. Nothing - better keep silent.
              1. shuravi
                shuravi 12 November 2017 10: 42
                -1
                You know, you made me laugh. laughing However, this is characteristic of online discussions.
              2. zyablik.olga
                zyablik.olga 12 November 2017 11: 58
                +4
                Quote: alexmach
                Your comments are absolutely useless. There is something to say constructive - say, do not pull the article, so invest in a paragraph of text. Nothing - better keep silent.

                Silence does not mean the presence of the mind, but it indicates the absence of stupidity. But this is clearly not the case ... negative
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 12 November 2017 12: 17
                  -1
                  Another "expert"?
                  Maybe then tell me what is the most difficult in the combat use of ATGMs? laughing
                2. Bongo
                  12 November 2017 12: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  Silence does not mean the presence of mind, but it indicates the absence of stupidity. But this is clearly not the case ... negative

                  Olya, do not feed the troll, he is already fat ... wink
                  1. shuravi
                    shuravi 12 November 2017 12: 38
                    -1
                    As you can see, the “troll” has a very reliable page with personal data:
                    http://artofwar.ru/l/lisowoj_w_i/
                    And a sufficient understanding of the subject of discussion.
                    Maybe this just outrages some "experts"?
                    1. Bongo
                      12 November 2017 13: 41
                      +2
                      Quote: shuravi
                      And a sufficient understanding of the subject of discussion.

                      Really? No. In which place? request You haven’t given a single competent comment. No.
                      1. shuravi
                        shuravi 12 November 2017 19: 26
                        -1
                        Yah? Or maybe the whole point is that you hide your head in the sand without wanting to answer them? Still hanging unanswered. laughing
                        https://topwar.ru/127829-aviaciya-protiv-tankov-c
                        hast-7.html
                        And somehow it is not for you in this matter to decide what is competent and what is not. Alas, this is a fact. hi
                3. The comment was deleted.
            2. EvilLion
              EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 06
              +1
              Show what the people are wrong.
        2. rubin6286
          rubin6286 13 November 2017 01: 00
          -1
          You are absolutely right. The article is called "Aviation against tanks" and if you do not write about 2MB, then its content will completely fit in a maximum of two parts. To disclose the content of the article, the author needs to tell:
          • What is modern armored vehicles on the battlefield;
          • What means of destruction of armored vehicles does the aviation of the USA, NATO and the Russian Federation have at the present stage;
          • What is the structure of modern means of destruction of armored vehicles, the principle of operation, the conditions of combat use, advantages and disadvantages;
          • Prospects for the development of means of destruction of armored vehicles.

          In the comments, they “deliver” it at all not to understand that, moreover, no one “piloted” the aircraft alive, didn’t shoot at armored vehicles, and did not evade the military or object air defense on the battlefield. The chatter is about comparing combat helicopters (design features, performance characteristics, etc., but the article is not about that), about the backlog of our avionics, weapons, the high cost of production, etc. At school, in literature lessons, they taught to draw up an essay plan so that the student could reveal the topic. It seems to me that the author needs to follow the same principle.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 13 November 2017 12: 37
            -1
            In general, your points are correct. But it is necessary to add the characteristics of modern theater. Both current and alleged.
    2. zyablik.olga
      zyablik.olga 10 November 2017 07: 30
      +5
      Quote: shuravi
      What exactly did the author want to say?

      What did you actually want to say? Besides clinging to the “navigator-operator”, nobody heard anything intelligible from you. Although it is known that the weapon operator in fact performs the duties of a navigator, and this is rather a matter of terminology. Seryozha, as far as I know, is normally constructive criticism, but unfortunately you, apart from banal slinging mud, have not been honored for anything else.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. rubin6286
        rubin6286 13 November 2017 01: 03
        -2
        I look, Olenka, on you ... and we took a little vodka .... ...
        1. zyablik.olga
          zyablik.olga 13 November 2017 05: 38
          +2
          Quote: rubin6286
          I look, Olenka, on you ... and we took a little vodka .... ...

          Law Engineer, would you like to become personal?
  12. exo
    exo 10 November 2017 18: 42
    +3
    Liked! I look forward to continuing. With elemental base, really, really bad. And the situation, in connection with the sanctions, will worsen. You should not hope for China. Although, as a temporary measure (?), It can save for a short time.
    In principle, we must start almost from scratch: machine tools and equipment. While we are building, again we will lag behind .... for many years. Some kind of vicious circle.
    1. alexmach
      alexmach 12 November 2017 01: 39
      +1
      And what kind of continuation are you waiting for? It seems that all existing domestic equipment was considered.
      1. Bongo
        12 November 2017 05: 25
        +4
        Quote: alexmach
        And what kind of continuation are you waiting for? It seems that all existing domestic equipment was considered.

        In general, plans also include foreign aircraft with an anti-tank bias. hi
  13. Ice
    Ice 11 November 2017 01: 12
    +4
    Quote: venik
    Quote: Bongo
    But on the other hand, I know quite well how things are with the domestic element base used to create the avionics of domestic aircraft. This is really sad!

    ==========
    Alas, Sergey !!!! This is the eternal misfortune of our microelectronics !!!! We once (back in the days of the USSR) on the “Day of the Physicist” (yes, yes !! It was like that!) Hung a banner (really small) over the “entrance” (Research Institute of Semiconductors) - “Soviet microcircuits - The largest microcircuits in the world ! " (The "rustle" was - "Mama Do not Cry" !!!!!)

    Comrade Why did you decide that THIS is the trouble of our microelectronics !!!! ? :)
    In general, this does not apply to the industry, but to the regime of the country.
    This may be a problem in that microelectronics, under the conditions of the Western regime, is developing too quickly.
    And in the Soviet-Russian, it will never be able to develop.
    It is not easy to take, build in a line and make brains dig from the fence to lunch.
    You need a type of freedom of thought to create super breakthrough things. Motivation - the standard of living and climate in the country for these people and for everyone else too.
    And commercial competition in the defense industry.
    And the microelectronics industry has nothing to do with it. Why put everything on her? :)
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 09
      0
      In general, this does not apply to the industry, but to the regime of the country.


      You are unwell, leave!

      You need a type of freedom of thought to create super breakthrough things.


      You don’t even understand what the same radar is in terms of development, and even more so entire projects for decades, where the role of an individual is reduced to zero by purely engineering means, go away.
  14. exo
    exo 11 November 2017 12: 06
    0
    Quote: Ice
    Quote: venik
    Quote: Bongo
    But on the other hand, I know quite well how things are with the domestic element base used to create the avionics of domestic aircraft. This is really sad!

    ==========
    Alas, Sergey !!!! This is the eternal misfortune of our microelectronics !!!! We once (back in the days of the USSR) on the “Day of the Physicist” (yes, yes !! It was like that!) Hung a banner (really small) over the “entrance” (Research Institute of Semiconductors) - “Soviet microcircuits - The largest microcircuits in the world ! " (The "rustle" was - "Mama Do not Cry" !!!!!)

    Comrade Why did you decide that THIS is the trouble of our microelectronics !!!! ? :)
    In general, this does not apply to the industry, but to the regime of the country.
    This may be a problem in that microelectronics, under the conditions of the Western regime, is developing too quickly.
    And in the Soviet-Russian, it will never be able to develop.
    It is not easy to take, build in a line and make brains dig from the fence to lunch.
    You need a type of freedom of thought to create super breakthrough things. Motivation - the standard of living and climate in the country for these people and for everyone else too.
    And commercial competition in the defense industry.
    And the microelectronics industry has nothing to do with it. Why put everything on her? :)

    The trouble is not in the creativity of Russian (Soviet) people. The trouble is in the low quality of production. What is called a production culture.
    1. Bongo
      11 November 2017 12: 12
      +3
      Quote: exo
      The trouble is in the low quality of production. What is called a production culture.

      The trouble is that money in Russia is not invested in high-tech production and in "human capital".
  15. exo
    exo 11 November 2017 15: 00
    +2
    Quote: Bongo
    Quote: exo
    The trouble is in the low quality of production. What is called a production culture.

    The trouble is that money in Russia is not invested in high-tech production and in "human capital".

    I agree. For example: airlines operating according to European documents (EASA 145) are simply obliged to create certain conditions for staff. Both domestic and in terms of providing work clothes and tools. This is quite tightly controlled. More trainings and tests. The company costs a pretty penny. But, all this affects the quality of maintenance. For the better. In general, the topic is huge.
  16. Ice
    Ice 11 November 2017 17: 16
    +2
    Quote: GspdjGneva
    Quote: KKND

    The people, can someone explain to me what the backwardness of Soviet electronics is, given that we produced more radars than Western countries combined (air defense, ship, aircraft, etc., etc.)?
    Only without myths please.

    Easy) Our Party did not take into account scientific and technological progress. The basis were taken 8-bit processors i8080. So all the electronic stuffing of ship-aircraft-missiles (you will not believe but even five eight-bit processors in the S-300) was built on outdated principles.
    Only in the mid-90s they began to switch to 16-bit and 32-bit processors (the S300PMZ complex (s400) already with Elbrus 90 micro processors)
    So your Iphone is one million times more computationally efficient than the S400

    But don’t overestimate iPhones :)
    In the military, the United States uses electronics technology 20 years ago.
    Type in F35 at the level of Windows XP.
    True in the domestic region, 40 years ago. Type were such computers, to which a tape recorder was connected, on the cassette of which the program was recorded :) well, this is figurative.
    Although everyone has made progress in this area, they have a greater rate of progress.
    Now it is especially interesting, given the fact that more and more practical applications where you can apply the so-called. processing power. Including all kinds of AI systems. And not just a ballistic calculator that worked on 8-bit processors.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 10
      0
      Do you use 40 technology a year ago in France? It is sad.
  17. alexmach
    alexmach 12 November 2017 01: 43
    +2
    Quickly reviewed the network of Ka-52 photographs. I didn’t find a single one with an overhead mount radar. Is it possible to install it there at all? What use of this radar can be discussed then?

    And so - thank you very much for the article and for the entire cycle.
    1. Bongo
      12 November 2017 05: 29
      +2
      Quote: alexmach
      Quickly reviewed the network photos Ka-52. I didn’t find a single one with an overhead mount radar.

      Thanks for the comments! I also did not succeed, but many sources write that there are plans for installing an "upper" antenna to control the air situation. Another question is how much is it really necessary? request It is possible that this is the same "hat" as ATGM "Whirlwind-1".
      Quote: alexmach
      And so - thank you very much for the article and for the entire cycle.
      drinks
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 12 November 2017 10: 44
        -1
        An over-the-gun radar for a combat helicopter is as necessary as a flashlight for a sniper.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 11
      0
      Because the fig put it there when it has a larger radar compartment in the bow. Or thought he had a nose cone for beauty?
      1. alexmach
        alexmach 21 November 2017 11: 25
        +1
        did you think that he had a nose cone for beauty?

        I thought it’s better to read the article first and then comment and not vice versa.
        I responded to the proposal from the article.
  18. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 13 November 2017 05: 37
    +2
    shuravi,
    Quote: shuravi
    Yah? Or maybe the whole thing is that you hide your head in the sand not wanting to answer them? Still hanging without an answer

    Answer, you can sane comments, but not rudeness! negative
    Quote: shuravi
    And somehow it is not for you in this matter to decide what is competent and what is not. Alas, this is a fact.

    Well, of course, you're one smart, and all the other fools. fool Only for some reason the majority of readers categorically do not share your position! negative
  19. shuravi
    shuravi 13 November 2017 12: 34
    -1
    Quote: zyablik.olga

    Answer, you can sane comments, but not rudeness! negative


    And where did you see rudeness here? Quite clear questions on the points:
    https://topwar.ru/127829-aviaciya-protiv-tankov-c
    hast-7.html

    Well, of course, you're one smart, and all the other fools. fool Only for some reason the majority of readers categorically do not share your position! negative


    I have to disappoint you, my young friend, but in such matters a simple majority of votes does not solve anything.
    Here primary knowledge and personal experience. hi
    1. Bongo
      14 November 2017 02: 08
      +1
      Quote: shuravi
      Here primary knowledge and personal experience.

      Are you talking to yourself? laughing
      1. shuravi
        shuravi 14 November 2017 08: 40
        -1
        Well, exactly that is not about you. hi
        1. Bongo
          14 November 2017 11: 33
          +1
          Quote: shuravi
          Well, exactly that is not about you.

          But at least I have the intelligence to not teach others, and not to be rude to others.
          1. shuravi
            shuravi 14 November 2017 12: 12
            -1
            But what do you do if you are not rude?
            And excuse me, no one personally teaches you. But the fact that your work does not correspond to the specified topic, this is the place to be.
            And not one I point to this moment.
            1. Bongo
              14 November 2017 12: 26
              +2
              Quote: shuravi
              But what do you do if you are not rude?

              Oh really? No. And whose boorish remarks the administration deleted, really not yours?
              Quote: shuravi
              And excuse me, no one personally teaches you. But the fact that your work does not correspond to the specified topic, this is the place to be.

              So write your own, prove your own solvency. Or is it beyond your strength? And until this happens to you, I'm sorry they won’t take it seriously here. And I'm not the only one who points out this moment.
              1. shuravi
                shuravi 14 November 2017 13: 18
                -1
                There are not boorish, but uncomfortable for you. This is the time.
                As for the articles, I already said why I do not want to do it within the framework of this site, although one of my articles (opinion) hangs here, but without my knowledge, these are two.
                Well, and about taking seriously. The statement of the question is incorrect initially. For it’s about that, I take such experts seriously, because my viability was not proved on the couch by means of copy-paste from the Internet.
                http://artofwar.ru/l/lisowoj_w_i/
                1. Bongo
                  15 November 2017 07: 40
                  +2
                  Another empty: blah, blah, blah ...
                  Those. you want to say that a focused administration is struggling with uncomfortable issues? lol You flatter yourself very much negative The administration does not care about this, only openly boorish and delusional comments will be deleted.
                  Quote: shuravi
                  For it’s about that, I take such experts seriously, because my viability was not proved on the couch by means of copy-paste from the Internet.

                  Able to do better, so what's the question? I will read the publication you wrote with interest.
                  1. shuravi
                    shuravi 15 November 2017 12: 34
                    -1
                    Read who forbids you. For four years now, as in the section of aviation hangs.
                    1. EvilLion
                      EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 18
                      +2
                      Suppose I believe that you are a Mi-24 pilot and understand the issue at the professional level of the era when you actually exploited a specific equipment. Do you even know anything about those. features Mi-28, Ka-50, or also seen only in the picture?
  20. Bongo
    15 November 2017 12: 38
    +2
    Quote: shuravi
    Read who forbids you. For four years now, as in the section of aviation hangs.

    Do not share the names?
    1. shuravi
      shuravi 15 November 2017 12: 46
      -1
      You will find by name. I’m too lazy to look from a mobile now.
      1. Bongo
        15 November 2017 14: 15
        +2
        For some reason, I am not surprised by this answer.
        1. shuravi
          shuravi 15 November 2017 21: 58
          -1
          You do not know how to use elementary search? This explains a lot. lol
          https://topwar.ru/26304-o-koncepcii-boevogo-verto
          leta.html
          1. Bongo
            16 November 2017 03: 54
            +3
            Quote: shuravi
            You do not know how to use elementary search? This explains a lot.

            Do you have megalomania for an hour? Or is your surname publicly known?fool
            As for the publication itself, it is a button accordion and a listing of commonplace. This explains a lot.negative
            1. shuravi
              shuravi 16 November 2017 09: 38
              -1
              It looks like you have big vision problems. Several times I gave a link to the site where my data is. What could be easier to find by last name?
              Although it’s already clear, you are just trolling.
              As for my article, you have something bad with memory. I have already said that I did not post anything here. This was not even an article, but a message on one of the forums, which I allowed to post on the Courage website.
              But this is not even the point.
              To throw general phrases, you need to be in expert status. That is, to have the necessary knowledge and experience. What I about myself and confirmed.
              You, while the nonsense that heaped on combat helicopters, clearly demonstrate your amateur status.
              I do not even hope that you will be able to present anything in rebuttal.
              And therefore, the requirements for you are different. Namely, a clear reasoned answer on specific points. Forgot? You yourself demanded that of me?
              That's it, my young friend. hi
              1. Bongo
                16 November 2017 09: 43
                +2
                Quote: shuravi
                Several times I gave a link to the site where my data is. What could be easier to find by last name?

                Who cares about your last name? lol
                Quote: shuravi
                Although it’s already clear, you are just trolling.

                C'mon, I didn’t start it ... fool
                Quote: shuravi
                To throw general phrases, you need to be in expert status. That is, to have the necessary knowledge and experience. What I about myself and confirmed.

                Can't you praise yourself? laughing
                Quote: shuravi
                I do not even hope that you will be able to present anything in rebuttal.

                And it’s right to lose time on such people - do not respect yourself.
                Quote: shuravi
                That's it, my young friend.

                Your young friend has experience in the power structures of 27 years. hi
                1. shuravi
                  shuravi 16 November 2017 10: 06
                  -1
                  Quote: Bongo

                  Your young friend has experience in the power structures of 27 years. hi

                  Not much, of course, my young friend. And as I understand it, this is all your asset. There is no knowledge in this area, there is no real attack on combat helicopters. Well, you also do not have the practice of using ATGMs in real databases. bully
                  1. Bongo
                    16 November 2017 10: 35
                    +3
                    Quote: shuravi
                    Not much, of course, my young friend.

                    Well, how much is old ... sorry I can’t call a friend. I don’t need someone else’s.
                    Quote: shuravi
                    And as I understand it, this is all your asset.

                    Your understanding does not extend too far, no one will prove anything and throw beads in front of you.
                    Quote: shuravi
                    There is no knowledge in this area, there is no real attack on combat helicopters. Well, you also do not have the practice of using ATGMs in real databases.

                    And I never said that. No. I also have no experience flying a supersonic fighter, I have never dived to a depth greater than 12 meters. But this does not bother me to live, because I also do not have an inferiority complex and I do not want to teach others what and how to do it.
                    1. shuravi
                      shuravi 16 November 2017 12: 28
                      -1
                      My opinion is more than enough enough to dispel the ravings of "analysts" who are not even able to list the crew of the helicopter correctly. hi
                      And since you are talking about complexes, then you obviously have it. Otherwise, where did you get such a painful reaction to comments? bully
                      1. Bongo
                        16 November 2017 13: 12
                        +3
                        Quote: shuravi
                        My opinion is more than enough enough

                        You have more than enough self-conceit ... but as for the rest, this is very controversial.
                        Quote: shuravi
                        And since you are talking about complexes, then you obviously have it. Otherwise, where did you get such a painful reaction to comments?

                        If I were touched by the remarks of various stupid people, then I would not have published on VO. I am having fun with you, since the Internet is free in the service. wink
  21. shuravi
    shuravi 16 November 2017 14: 49
    -1
    Bongo,

    You have more than enough self-conceit ... but as for the rest, this is very controversial.


    Yes, where it is debatable. My knowledge and experience in this field is confirmed. But your competence in this area is still in doubt. Although, if you found the navigators-operators on the Mi-24B and P, then it is already very significant.


    If I were touched by the remarks of various stupid people, then I would not have published on VO. I am having fun with you, since the Internet is free in the service. wink


    Yeah, just like a mouse landed in the clutches of a cat. bully
    1. Bongo
      16 November 2017 15: 10
      +3
      Quote: shuravi
      Although, if you found the navigators-operators on the Mi-24B and P, then it is already very revealing.

      Is this your main and only argument? Say also that the weapon operator did not fulfill the duties of a navigator.
      Quote: shuravi
      Yeah, just like a mouse landed in the clutches of a cat.
      Precisely megalomania ... wassat
      1. KKND
        KKND 16 November 2017 15: 17
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        Precisely megalomania ...

        Hard case.
        The article is generally very weak, he was going to shoot down rockets with a machine gun, this can only be written for a youngster. The operator is resting.
      2. shuravi
        shuravi 18 November 2017 10: 41
        -1
        Quote: Bongo
        Quote: shuravi
        Although, if you found the navigators-operators on the Mi-24B and P, then it is already very revealing.

        Is this your main and only argument? Say also that the weapon operator did not fulfill the duties of a navigator.


        How is everything running? laughing
        An operator in the same Afghanistan and a commanding position could take. When the flight load was very significant.
        However, according to IE (Mi-24D, V, P), the duties of the navigator are assigned to the helicopter commander.
        And from the fact that the operator could assist the commander in the calculations, he does not become a navigator. Like on the same Mi-24K (navigator), or RHR (navigator pilot).
        In addition, regardless of the type of aircraft and crew, each pilot must have a set of navigation maps and target maps (if necessary), at the preliminary preparation to carry out the necessary route planning and necessary calculations.
        In flight, the entire flight crew (not to be confused with the lifting) is obliged to conduct visual orientation and control of the path.

        Precisely megalomania ... wassat


        You can not repeat your diagnosis, I understand it.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 21 November 2017 10: 21
          +1
          An operator who takes a commanding position ceases to be an operator and becomes unnecessary. Another thing is that he can command a pilot who looks mostly on course.
        2. Bongo
          21 November 2017 13: 52
          +2
          Quote: shuravi
          You can not repeat your diagnosis, I understand it.

          Sorry, but this is exactly your diagnosis, I don’t need someone else’s. No.
  22. KKND
    KKND 16 November 2017 15: 04
    +2
    Bongo,
    Sergei, Shuravi, for a long time was making himself smart, but vaf's commentary on the article put everything in its place. Rjunimagu laughing
    1. Bongo
      16 November 2017 15: 14
      +3
      Quote: KKND
      Sergei, Shuravi, for a long time was making himself smart, but vaf's commentary on the article put everything in its place. Rjunimagu

      Unfortunately, the last time I talked to him, Sergei had serious health problems. Overloads and missions to war do not pass without a trace. Although the man is of course fighting and extremely robust!
      1. KKND
        KKND 16 November 2017 15: 21
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        Unfortunately, the last time I talked to him, Sergei had serious health problems.

        You, Sergei, take care of yourself, without you it will be impossible to enter the site at all.
        P.S. my name is Cyril, by the way.
        1. Bongo
          16 November 2017 15: 23
          +3
          Quote: KKND
          You, Sergei, take care of yourself, without you it will be impossible to enter the site at all.

          Thank! Yes, what will happen to me? I have already earned a pension.
          Quote: KKND
          P.S. my name is Cyril, by the way.

          Nice to meet you! drinks
    2. shuravi
      shuravi 18 November 2017 10: 45
      -1
      Quote: KKND
      Bongo,
      Sergei, Shuravi, for a long time was making himself smart, but vaf's commentary on the article put everything in its place. Rjunimagu laughing


      Come on, Kiryusha, tell us about your qualifications. Or again, I myself am not a pilot, but mine: friend, matchmaker, brother ... laughing
  23. shuravi
    shuravi 18 November 2017 10: 53
    -1
    Quote: KKND
    Quote: Bongo
    Precisely megalomania ...

    Hard case.
    The article is generally very weak, he was going to shoot down rockets with a machine gun, this can only be written for a youngster. The operator is resting.


    You do not even know that such an option was seriously worked out as a measure of MANPADS? Well it happens. lol
  24. EvilLion
    EvilLion 21 November 2017 09: 32
    0
    However, it was not possible to establish mass production of the Vikhr ATGM.


    WHAT? The entire u-tube has already been littered with launches in Syria, and mass production has already begun.

    However, this amount is many times greater than the requirements of the Egyptian Navy


    Frankly, this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. The minimum necessary equipment for Mistral, so that you have a reserve of 100% of the vehicles will be 32 units. In addition to this, it is still necessary to train the crews, maybe a couple of pieces will be raked for familiarization with the Air Force, but I do not see any redundancy here. It’s quite a batch to meet the needs of making up for losses and training personnel without depreciation of military equipment.
    1. Bongo
      21 November 2017 12: 43
      +1
      Quote: EvilLion
      The entire u-tube has already been littered with launches in Syria, and mass production has already begun.

      All of YouTube is littered with the launches of the Sturm ATGM. And about the "Whirlwind-1" read the comments.