Military Review

The supply of F-35 was suspended for a month due to corrosion of the case.

145
Deliveries of F-35 Lockheed Martin fighters were suspended this fall 30 days due to the fact that during maintenance corrosion was detected at the point of attachment of hull elements, reports Look with reference to the Reuters agency.




“Corrosion, beyond technical limits,” in a place where the carbon fiber outer panel connects to the aluminum body of the aircraft, was discovered during routine maintenance at the Hill Air Force base in Utah. At the attachment point there was no protective coating that could prevent the problem, ”the agency writes with reference to the developer company.

At the same time, Lockheed Martin claims that the problem with mounting on the released F-35 aircraft "does not affect airworthiness and is not a safety problem." Currently, the company's specialists are investigating the scale of the corrosion problem on 250 aircraft previously transferred to the US military and its allies.

It is reported that the fighter production itself did not stop. A month later, October 20 machine deliveries continued. This decision was made after the approval of the “corrective action plan”.

The article notes that this incident will not be an obstacle to the implementation of the plan for the 2017 year, and the Pentagon will receive the ordered 66 fighters in time.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com
145 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. regdan
    regdan 2 November 2017 13: 47 New
    +7
    it turns out that Israel delivered defective planes ....
    1. 210ox
      210ox 2 November 2017 13: 50 New
      15
      Already rusty .. Just kidding. This does not affect the fighting spirit of the kamikaze. Wherever they were. In Israel or elsewhere ..
      Quote: regdan
      it turns out that Israel delivered defective planes ....
      1. Jedi
        Jedi 2 November 2017 13: 52 New
        14
        The company’s specialists are currently investigating the scale of the corrosion problem on 250 aircraft previously handed over to the US military and their allies.

        Yeah ... Well: are we waiting for the appearance of the Fu-35 defenders with shouts of "fyfsofrety!"
        1. Going
          Going 2 November 2017 14: 01 New
          12
          Of course, I apologize, but we also have enough of this:
          There was no protective coating at the attachment point that could have prevented the problem, ”the agency writes with reference to the development company.
          1. Jedi
            Jedi 2 November 2017 14: 07 New
            +9
            Do you think, in our example, some dodgy specialist stole the special coating and drove it? lol This is unlikely - most likely this special lipstick was sawn at the project stage.
            1. Going
              Going 2 November 2017 14: 12 New
              10
              Do they also have private shops to preserve their steel horses? Although there are many of our former, they will teach anything.
              1. Jedi
                Jedi 2 November 2017 14: 14 New
                +5
                Quote: Going
                teach anything

                What good is hard to teach, but bad is easy!
                1. Vladimir16
                  Vladimir16 2 November 2017 14: 19 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Going
                  Although there are many of our former, they will teach anything.
                  Quote: Going
                  Of course, I apologize, but we also have enough of this:

                  Who are you and who are yours? You describe some gouging and say that you are one of them. I want to understand who you are about to stay away from yours.
                  1. Going
                    Going 2 November 2017 14: 41 New
                    10
                    I offended you with something hi , I jokingly talked about our former compatriots who left there back in the late 70s of the last century and brought there many of their habits.
                2. Going
                  Going 2 November 2017 14: 20 New
                  +9
                  “The bad, the good is who is on which side is standing and which edge is holding on,” is their approach, therefore, with a bang.
                  1. Jedi
                    Jedi 2 November 2017 14: 27 New
                    +6
                    Your philosophical approach ...
                    1. Going
                      Going 2 November 2017 14: 35 New
                      +9
                      It's not mine hi , this is the approach of stellar taxpayers, their philosophical stone, so to speak.
                      1. Jedi
                        Jedi 2 November 2017 14: 37 New
                        +6
                        I really didn’t think that pragmatic Americans would suddenly find such a thing ... belay
                    2. Going
                      Going 2 November 2017 14: 43 New
                      +9
                      Quote: Jedi
                      I really didn’t think that pragmatic Americans would suddenly find such a thing ... belay


                      And you look at the actions of their politicians, as well as the people.
            2. akribos
              akribos 3 November 2017 00: 05 New
              +2
              Clearly, our 29 have similar features, but roughly from 40 to 25. But 35 is new !!! And the second one from which metal they collected it? Ceramics do not rust, aluminum, titanium is the same if they do not touch each other or other metals. Apparently simple, Ferrum use. They cheapened.
              1. 11 black
                11 black 3 November 2017 17: 30 New
                0
                Quote: akribos
                Clearly, our 29 have similar features, but roughly from 40 to 25. But 35 is new !!! And the second one from which metal they collected it? Ceramics do not rust, aluminum, titanium is the same if they do not touch each other or other metals. Apparently simple, Ferrum use. They cheapened.

                Magnesium is most likely - lightweight, durable, ductile, but it rusts - Mama Do not Cry hi
                1. raf
                  raf 3 November 2017 22: 32 New
                  0
                  Magnesium is most likely - lightweight, durable, ductile, but it rusts - Mama Do not Cry
                  Magnesium does not rust, it oxidizes! winked tongue
          2. Piramidon
            Piramidon 2 November 2017 14: 37 New
            +4
            Quote: Going
            Of course, I apologize, but we also have enough of this:

            I once served the Tu-95. Center corrosion began to appear after 25 years of operation. And here it’s novice.
            1. Going
              Going 2 November 2017 14: 48 New
              +9
              I spoke a little about something else - they simply forgot to miss, as the author wrote. I am not a specialist, therefore, I can not say.
            2. Sergei75
              Sergei75 2 November 2017 15: 52 New
              +1
              Everywhere decay, before cars were made for decades, now it’s up to 100 km, so we got to planes.
              They say that before us, there were other civilizations on Earth, and they all died, was this the reason?
              1. Piramidon
                Piramidon 2 November 2017 16: 10 New
                +4
                Quote: Sergei75
                Everywhere decay, before cars were made for decades, now it’s up to 100 km., So we got to planes

                And who will buy the new if the old does not break. My Nokia 3310 is still alive and completely "functions", only the battery has been replaced. I keep it as a spare if the modern device dies. And now smartphones have worked out a guarantee, and hello.
          3. ADmA_RUS
            ADmA_RUS 2 November 2017 16: 25 New
            0
            No. For the oppression is utter nonsense.
          4. kos2910
            kos2910 3 November 2017 06: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: Going
            Of course, I apologize, but we also have enough of this:

            Well, for us this is not a problem, but the lack of a protective layer is invisibility on smarka, and this is the main trump card of this bird ...
        2. NIKNN
          NIKNN 2 November 2017 14: 01 New
          14
          Corrosion of aluminum at the point of contact with carbon fiber. belay I'm not a chemist, but strained (I think whoever of the specialists will explain), apparently electrochemical corrosion ... what Well, it seems that this problem didn’t arise on other pepelats, the F-35 is a masterpiece to attract problems ... like an anecdote looks like:
          The company bought a Mercedes plant AvtoVAZ. Reconfigured production, start the conveyor. . . Bam! at the exit of the Lada!
          Dismantle the equipment, drove the new one from Germany, installed, adjusted, launched. ! ! ! Lada again!
          Why all the plant personnel are dismissed, workers from Germany are brought in, they are established, checked, and launched. ! At the exit again - Lada!
          There is a hill near the plant; ch. engineer and director of the plant (both with the prefix Ex .. Look at all this. Engineer to the director:
          - And I told you - the place is damned! ! ! And then all the "hands from the ass, hands from the ass"
          1. win
            win 2 November 2017 14: 22 New
            12
            A little son approaches a dad listening to loud music while lying under a car:
            - Dad, what is it?
            - Corrosion of metal!
            - Yes, I see that the car is rotten. What rubbish did you turn on? what
            1. NIKNN
              NIKNN 2 November 2017 14: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: Siegen
              A little son approaches a dad listening to loud music while lying under a car:

              laughing
          2. mkop
            mkop 2 November 2017 14: 26 New
            +2
            Fretting corrosion, intergranular corrosion. All this can be on aluminum. Our food stainless steel has corroded due to fretting.
            1. NIKNN
              NIKNN 2 November 2017 14: 36 New
              +1
              Quote: mkop
              Fretting corrosion, intergranular corrosion. All this can be on aluminum. Our food stainless steel has corroded due to fretting.

              Thank you! hi But why at the junction with non-casing material? request No other places, or haven’t yet been found ?. hi
              1. jjj
                jjj 2 November 2017 14: 50 New
                +3
                There, of course, the luminium is not pure, but an alloy. Can’t chemical processes go between the elements making up this alloy?
                1. NIKNN
                  NIKNN 2 November 2017 15: 01 New
                  +2
                  Quote: jjj
                  There, of course, the luminium is not pure, but an alloy. Can’t chemical processes go between the elements making up this alloy?

                  So I say so. Why only at the junction with carbon fiber? In my opinion (again, this is only in my opinion, not a fact that he is right), carbon fiber should not participate in chemical reactions ... what
                  1. mkop
                    mkop 2 November 2017 16: 33 New
                    +8
                    Aluminum creates an oxide film on its surface, which protects it from the penetration of a corrosive environment deeper. Fretting, which was in this case most likely, arises from friction (even micron movements of one part relative to another are enough). The friction of one part disrupts the oxide film on aluminum, and it begins to corrode further. Moreover, the oxide film on the alloys is uneven, and contains foreign metal inclusions, which also generally does not contribute to maintaining the reliability of the oxide film on the surface. In general, fretting corrosion does not require the chemical interaction of materials; only a violation of the protective oxide film is necessary.
                    1. NIKNN
                      NIKNN 2 November 2017 16: 38 New
                      +2
                      Now it is clear. Thanks, I caught the essence. hi
                      1. Solomon Kane
                        Solomon Kane 2 November 2017 18: 55 New
                        +7
                        Nikolay! Written above by a person far from aircraft manufacturing, if fretting had a place in aircraft and shipbuilding, there would be PESEC !!!
                        We must also ask him how the hulls of the submarines are welded .....
                        Problems in steel fasteners, see below....
                    2. Maki Avellevich
                      Maki Avellevich 3 November 2017 09: 40 New
                      +2
                      Quote: mkop
                      In general, fretting corrosion does not require the chemical interaction of materials; only a violation of the protective oxide film is necessary.


                      Not certainly in that way. after breaking the film, it appears again. only when, for example, Fe enters the "stainless steel" can the corrosion process begin in the latter, since the process of the appearance of protective oxides is disrupted.
                      1. Solomon Kane
                        Solomon Kane 3 November 2017 10: 06 New
                        +6
                        Man, who makes a plane out of stainless steel ????
                      2. mkop
                        mkop 3 November 2017 11: 46 New
                        0
                        The film DOES NOT APPEAR AGAIN, which is why corrosion begins. I'm already tired of writing about it. The film is broken CONSTANTLY due to micro-movements of parts and friction.
                        At least go to Wikipedia, read. The link is not normally inserted.
                        Solomon KaneThe appearance of microinclusions on the surface of even aluminum can lead to disruption of the formation of an oxide film.
                  2. Kyzmich
                    Kyzmich 3 November 2017 18: 20 New
                    +1
                    The thing is, rather, that the carbon structural elements themselves are attached to aluminum parts by riveting.
                    At one time, Lockheed boasted that the production and assembly of these F-35s would be as technologically advanced and automated as possible.
                    As a chip, they stated that when joining the elements, a special stand with drilling and riveting modules will be used. They drill and rivet hundreds of points at the same time, without human intervention.
                    Usually, aluminum structures are drilled for riveting and then anodized and coated with a special varnish.
                    Perhaps a technological error occurred here - they drill right after anodizing and then rivet in the hope of protecting the edges of the holes with sealant or something else?
                    Looks like this venture did not "fail."
                2. Solomon Kane
                  Solomon Kane 2 November 2017 18: 44 New
                  +8
                  The questions are not about the casing and carbon fiber, the questions about riveted and bolted joints, they are all made of steel ... Here along with the suppliers they cut or did the wrong galvanizing and the metal started to “blossom”, the paint swelled and “burst into tears” with red tears .. ..And then Frettieng, fretting, aluminum alloys, as they are not scratched, are covered with a protective oxide film ... Al2O3, before painting any aluminum part undergoes the anodizing process, otherwise the paint will not lie down.
                  Anodizing is the process of creating an oxide film on the surface of certain metals and alloys by their anodic polarization in a conductive medium. There are various types of anodizing, including electrochemical anodizing - the process of obtaining an oxide coating on the surface of various metals (Al, Mg, Ti, Ta, Zr, Hf, etc.)
                  1. NIKNN
                    NIKNN 2 November 2017 19: 26 New
                    +4
                    Here Iya something went into a stupor from contact with carbon fiber. It should have been like (even my knowledge knows) contact with an incomparable contact for another metal. Oh, thanks! Somehow I put soft and warm in my head smile Curiosity is not a vice. hi
                    1. mkop
                      mkop 3 November 2017 09: 50 New
                      +2
                      Fretting is not a chemical process, it is a MECHANICAL violation of oxide films and other coatings. And it happens constantly with vibration, does not have time for a new one to appear, it takes time for ANY chemical reaction to proceed. And the formation of a film on the surface of a pure metal is a chemical reaction.
                  2. mkop
                    mkop 3 November 2017 09: 47 New
                    +2
                    Did you understand what you wrote? I wrote about the violation of the coating of the oxide film. In order for the metal to become coated with an oxide film, it takes time, minutes for some, seconds for others. During vibration, it collapses constantly at the junction of parts, and simply does not have time to appear - this is fretting corrosion.
                    And yes, I'm not in the aircraft industry, but just in mechanical engineering. And I’ll tell you a secret that the laws of physics apply to everything, and to cars and planes alike.

                    I would generally be afraid to fly on airplanes to which you would have a hand. Unless of course you are in the aircraft industry.
                3. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 3 November 2017 10: 08 New
                  +8
                  Quote: jjj
                  Can’t chemical processes go between the elements making up this alloy?

                  No, they can not.
                  In addition, those who designed this part, certainly "laid down" on the fact that the used alloy (ceteris paribus) will be the least susceptible to corrosion.
                  Quote: NIKNN
                  carbon fiber should not participate in chemical reactions ...

                  It does not participate ... chav, chav ...
                  That is, it itself does not corrode (it ... does not know how), and does not add any electrochemistry to the process, for example.
                  Quote: mkop
                  The friction of one part violates the oxide film on aluminum, and it begins to corrode further ...

                  And since friction is constant, the process goes "to the bitter end". A plus stop
                  Quote: Solomon Kane
                  The questions are not about plating and carbon fiber, the questions are about riveted and bolted joints, they are all made of steel ...

                  Usually, too, ahem ... covered with something ... oxidized, at least (not even the aircraft manufacturer, I could be wrong. But what is corrosion and protection from it is a little in the subject ... such a diploma specialty).
                  Quote: Solomon Kane
                  Here, along with suppliers, they messed up or did the wrong galvanizing

                  Oh, how ... that is, it’s not only with us that it happens that the “solder is mixed up” ... wink
                  In general, there is little information, this is a fortune-telling. IMHO.
                  1. Kyzmich
                    Kyzmich 3 November 2017 18: 28 New
                    +1
                    No, they can not.
                    Bold statement
                    In aluminum alloys Al Copper Al Zinc, these processes are still going
                    And there is such a concept of through corrosion in thin sheets that a long problem was the sealed structures of the alloy D16T (duralumin) and B96
                    In the composition of the alloy there are two polar metals copper and aluminum.
                    What makes this alloy extremely corrosive in air, in water.
          3. raf
            raf 3 November 2017 22: 42 New
            +1
            F-35 masterpiece to attract problems
            Poor, poor F-35, I even felt sorry for him! No, really sorry! Was there another plane in history that collected so many sores? Or were they not so closely watched by others?
        3. Semurg
          Semurg 2 November 2017 17: 36 New
          0
          Quote: Jedi
          The company’s specialists are currently investigating the scale of the corrosion problem on 250 aircraft previously handed over to the US military and their allies.

          Yeah ... Well: are we waiting for the appearance of the Fu-35 defenders with shouts of "fyfsofrety!"

          250 fifth-generation f35 aircraft riveted, not counting the raptors. We are waiting for the screams to be completely confidential, and this is a solid yoke and not the fifth generation from the urapatriots. By the way, all these planes are among the opponents of the Russian Federation, or maybe it is better to count them in the partners of the Russian Federation?
      2. analgin
        analgin 3 November 2017 09: 22 New
        0
        Quote: 210ox
        Already rusty .. Just kidding. This does not affect the fighting spirit of the kamikaze. Wherever they were. In Israel or elsewhere ..
        Quote: regdan
        it turns out that Israel delivered defective planes ....

        It’s so good that the Su-57 has no problems with corrosion and nothing needs to be suspended! good
    2. hrych
      hrych 2 November 2017 13: 51 New
      +9
      fifth generation rust trough wassat
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 2 November 2017 13: 54 New
        +3
        How is it, the 13th prototype is ready? wink
        1. Smog
          Smog 2 November 2017 13: 58 New
          15
          But let's not say .......,
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 November 2017 13: 59 New
            +2
            If it’s a secret, then don’t. fellow
            1. Smog
              Smog 2 November 2017 14: 00 New
              11
              Yes!!!!! soldier
              Quote: voyaka uh
              secret,
        2. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 2 November 2017 14: 01 New
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          How is it, the 13th prototype is ready?

          we harness for a long time, but drive fast) almost all of our military equipment has been around for decades, and is easily upgraded. so that drying will come out not much later, but it will fly 10 times longer))
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 04 New
            +7
            "but it will fly 10 times longer))" ////

            I have no doubt about that. She will fly, and when around there will be a 6-7 generation. smile
            1. Lord of the Sith
              Lord of the Sith 2 November 2017 14: 17 New
              +5
              You are a smart person, judging by the previous comments. Well, what is the 5th generation? If out of five parameters, two are not executed.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 31 New
                +2
                "Well, what is the 5th generation? If two of the five parameters are not met." ////

                But will the new engine be installed on Su soon? They wrote that he passed the test.
                By "stealth", of course, it doesn’t go very well because of the open nozzles ...
                But nothing is known by network-centricity. But I think they’ll put something similar.
                AFAR, it seems, will be ... So, in my opinion, in general, the Su-57 will pull to the 5th, when
                all of the above will be mounted and debugged.
                1. Lord of the Sith
                  Lord of the Sith 2 November 2017 15: 27 New
                  +5
                  I wrote for the F-35, and not for the SU-57.
                  1. Shahno
                    Shahno 2 November 2017 22: 54 New
                    +2
                    And what is wrong with him, with -35 wrong? The normal path of a pioneer.
                    Nothing, he fell into good hands. Will plow.
                    1. Lord of the Sith
                      Lord of the Sith 2 November 2017 22: 59 New
                      +3
                      That Israel will make candy out of it. There are no questions.
            2. Incvizitor
              Incvizitor 2 November 2017 14: 28 New
              +4
              I have no doubt about that. She will fly, and when around there will be a 6-7 generation.

              Yes, even call 10m, anyway, he will be far from our 4th laughing
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 40 New
                +3
                "all the same, he will be far from our 4th" ////

                And until the 2nd (MiG-21, the plane was excellent good ) - even further!
            3. Victor-M
              Victor-M 2 November 2017 22: 44 New
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              I have no doubt about that. She will fly, and when around there will be a 6-7 generation.

              And it will be, this is the 6th and 7th generation, something I doubt, looking at American cretinism.
            4. Cxnumx
              Cxnumx 3 November 2017 07: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              I have no doubt about that. She will fly, and when around there will be a 6-7 generation.

              and what?) if in our country the fourth generation is not much inferior to the "fifth", then somehow ... in one place)) and these are purely technical specifications. and if you take the economy - there’s no chance at all)), unfortunately, we cannot print so much pieces of paperhow much is the USA to infusing them with an endless stream to make an airplane. compare the funds spent on development with them and with us: 1,3 trillion dollars in us and 3 billion dollars with us. fans of American technology are always silent about this)) it reminds how the Germans shout about the best tank of the second world Tirg)) there were only 1354, but the T-34 of various modifications 85000))) when there are several dozens of good ones for the costs of one excellent tank, excellent turns into trash. and if our general secretaries had not allowed us to introduce their “international” currency that was not backed up by anything other than air - would they have done something iron)))
        3. hrych
          hrych 2 November 2017 14: 01 New
          11
          Quote: voyaka uh
          How is it, the 13th prototype is ready?

          4 Boreas, the 4th generation, were launched, it’s all your rusty aircraft, together with the owners, it’s not worth one salvo, oh, it went too far, one launch wassat
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 08 New
            +3
            That's cool! good
            So Vysotsky wrote 50 years ago:
            "as well as in the field of ballet, we are ahead of the rest!" drinks
            1. Logall
              Logall 2 November 2017 14: 39 New
              12
              Do not touch the Russian ballet, you can run into Fouetté!
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 47 New
                +2
                The main thing is not to get under the grand jete. fellow
        4. _Jack_
          _Jack_ 2 November 2017 14: 01 New
          +6
          fifth generation rust trough

          How is it, the 13th prototype is ready?

          hooked wink
        5. askort154
          askort154 2 November 2017 14: 12 New
          +3
          voyaka uh ....How is it, the 13th prototype is ready?

          The Russian harnesses for a long time, but then everything quickly subsides. I understand, it's a shame. You were bred as suckers. You were handed a super dear Fuyn.
          You first flew over them under the supervision of F-16, and then you yourself began to modify the American jambs. For ours do not worry, you will not have to modify it. And the fact that he will not have F-sores, and he will give Foru you will soon see. yes hi
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 19 New
            +2
            "For ours do not worry, you will not have to modify it" ///

            But I'm not sure about that. recourse
            Israel upgraded almost all Soviet-made aircraft.
            From MiG-21 to MiG-29. Good planes, but become obsolete with time.
            And we are replacing them with avionics and weapon systems with modern ones.
            Soon we will upgrade Indian Su-30s (under the formal leadership of Italy).
            So - in the future - and the Su-57 will go to the factories of Taasia Avirit (Izr. Aviation industry) or Elbit.
            1. askort154
              askort154 2 November 2017 14: 37 New
              +2
              voyaka uh ....Israel upgraded almost all Soviet-made aircraft. From MiG-21 to MiG-29. Good planes, but outdated ...

              Mig - 21 went into series in 1959. In Vietnam, "drove" the American F-4, like a chicken rooster. good Where was Israeli at that time? stop A - "agraidil"! tongue And who was Israel then? no
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 58 New
                +3
                Here is the MiG-21 Lancer Israeli upgrade. (MiG-21 Lancer)
                For the Romanian Air Force. And for the Indian was the same upgrade.
                1. askort154
                  askort154 2 November 2017 15: 11 New
                  +1
                  voyaka uh ....That's the MiG-21 Lancer Israeli upgrade. (MiG-21 Lancer) For the Romanian Air Force. And for the Indian was the same upgrade.

                  And so it was necessary to state immediately, and not to drag the Russian MiG-21 here. Yes, and about Indian doubts too. They with electronics and programming are not much worse than in Israel. hi
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 2 November 2017 16: 50 New
                    +2
                    "And so it was necessary to state immediately, and not to drag here the Russian MiG-21" ////

                    Duc recourse , I wrote: "almost all Soviet-made aircraft"
                    Where are the "Russians" here?
            2. sabakina
              sabakina 2 November 2017 15: 01 New
              +6
              Che Warrior's ear has been raging ... Lately it has been nice to read your posts, I thought a man took the right path, but no, got out of control, hurried to conclusions ...
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 2 November 2017 15: 07 New
                +2
                I regret that I did not please.
                And I thought I would like about ballet ... crying
              2. askort154
                askort154 2 November 2017 15: 16 New
                +7
                sabakina ... Che Warrior wow raging ....

                He is on duty today at the Israeli VO server.
            3. swnvaleria
              swnvaleria 2 November 2017 15: 54 New
              +2
              but doesn’t produce any planes
          2. Sergei75
            Sergei75 2 November 2017 15: 56 New
            0
            I’m lagging about, a campaign there must be started from scratch, they are too smart with the material ...
        6. Victor-M
          Victor-M 2 November 2017 22: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          How is it, the 13th prototype is ready? wink

          You? laughing
      2. Karaul73
        Karaul73 2 November 2017 14: 21 New
        +4
        This trough will go around the world in unprecedented circulations to this day. You will see. What can you say about 57?
        1. hrych
          hrych 2 November 2017 14: 28 New
          +6
          Quote: Sentry73
          What can you say about 57?

          The merit is not an airplane and God forbid its invisibility, but the American military. Dad said to take off his pants ... look at the performance characteristics of the plane, it's just miserable wassat
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 2 November 2017 14: 43 New
          +5
          Quote: Sentry73
          What can you say about 57?

          Are you leveling heavy MFI with light? That is, in your opinion, heavy fighters should also be stamped in the same way as light fighters and in the same quantities? Why didn’t the lizards be stamped by the thousands, do not tell me? wassat
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 November 2017 15: 02 New
            +3
            "Why didn’t the lizards stamped with thousands, don’t you tell me? Wassat" ///

            I’ll tell you, of course. Why not help?
            The Soviet Union split, but China has not yet risen.
            There was no adversary. Therefore, the release was stopped.
            Now (because of China) they regret ...
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 2 November 2017 15: 12 New
              +7
              Quote: voyaka uh
              I’ll tell you, of course. Why not help?
              The Soviet Union split, but China has not yet risen.
              There was no adversary. Therefore, the release was stopped.
              Now (because of China) they regret ...

              Well, yes ... an excuse on duty at all times. And not from the fact that he, like Spirit, is expensive both in production and in service staff? And then the USSR, dear? The USSR has been gone for a quarter of a century, and you blame it all.
              They regret not because China rises ... this is not the whole reason. All strong players rise, developing such systems. But the USA has the F-35 ... that’s where happiness and power are! To rivet a herd of fighters, to spread this miracle to the size of a panacea for all ills, and after the whole world to explain that these are all temporary difficulties. And let me ask, a quarter of a century has passed since the construction of the pangolin, and all the diseases were eliminated from him? M
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 2 November 2017 15: 20 New
                +3
                “a quarter of a century has passed, and all the diseases have been eliminated from him” ///

                And the pangolin revealed problems in the process of drill operation.
                And corrected. The "stealth" coating was changed in particular.
                As the Su-34 drove from Syria to the finishing touches / limits, revealed
                during sorties and service. This is normal.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 2 November 2017 15: 24 New
                  +6
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  And the pangolin revealed problems in the process of drill operation.

                  And they still come to light ... after a quarter of a century. Moreover, most of these same sores safely passed to the F-35 without changes. But this is a wonderful aircraft and, although problems arise, advertising is said to be the engine of trade. And therefore, I remember only one not perishable phrase, “Cut Shura, saw! It is golden!”
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 2 November 2017 15: 29 New
                    +3
                    Compared to this, rust at the junction of aluminum and carbon is nothing:

                    "... a statement addressed to the Minister of Defense, which stated
                    that all the troops delivered to the Su-34 have significant defects,
                    preventing their full combat use. Moreover, each
                    of cars had its own individual problems, and the Su-34 “causes
                    complaints from crews who are forced to deal with flaws every flight ”:
                    it mainly concerned the radar and sighting and navigation system. "

                    And did such planes be sent for military operations in Syria? negative
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 2 November 2017 15: 35 New
                      +8
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      And did such planes be sent for military operations in Syria?

                      Excuse me, but are we bringing in the 34th to everyone and everything? This time. Second ... how much time has passed since the moment the SU-34 was adopted? It is modernized, corrected and brought to a perfect state. Moreover, the “duckling” shows itself very well in Syria. And where did the F-35 show itself? M
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh 2 November 2017 16: 12 New
                        +1
                        Suffer 2 months. From December they will begin to work.
                    2. kirgiz58
                      kirgiz58 2 November 2017 16: 32 New
                      +1
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      Compared to this, rust at the junction of aluminum and carbon is nothing:

                      Carbon and aluminum do not constitute an electrochemical pair. Just in this place, on this instance, corrosion appeared first, ........ but not the last, and not only on this instance. The avalanche process is ensured in the not too distant future.
                      1. Maki Avellevich
                        Maki Avellevich 3 November 2017 09: 51 New
                        0
                        Quote: kirgiz58
                        Carbon and aluminum do not constitute an electrochemical pair. Just in this place, on this instance, corrosion appeared first, ........ but not last


                        perhaps at the junction there is a place to be increased erosion (air currents) which accelerated the rate of corrosion.
                        you just need to anoint some joints, and fly yourself further!
                    3. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 2 November 2017 16: 38 New
                      +8
                      Quote: Ci Cago
                      What are you whispering on all the topics about the "raw" f -35?

                      Dear, you are whispering, and I say.
                      Quote: Ci Cago
                      . is mass-produced and supplied to the troops since 2008 ... and such jambs ...

                      Do not pi ... talk nonsense, dear. You again, as with F-35, are pulling dates on the globe ... The first two serial Su-34s under the first contract were received on December 18, 2006 ... Start of operation 21 March 2014 year.
                      What's next? And now, the miracle of ANALYTIC-To whom do we export SU-34?
                      Besides ... by incidents ..
                      On June 4, 2015, at about 16:30, when landing at the Buturlinovka airfield (Voronezh region), after a planned training flight, the Su-34 front-line bomber from the 47th separate mixed aviation regiment of the 105th mixed aviation division crashed th command of the Air Force and Air Defense of Russia. Since December 1, the regiment has been temporarily based at Buturlinovka airfield for the period of repair of the runway at the regular airfield of the Baltimore regiment (Voronezh). The plane rolled out of the runway and rolled over. The crew was not injured.

                      Questions? One contingency for the entire time of operation, and that is not critical.
              2. kirgiz58
                kirgiz58 3 November 2017 10: 14 New
                +1
                Maki Avellyevich Today, 09: 51 ↑

                perhaps at the junction there is a place to be increased erosion (air currents) which accelerated the rate of corrosion.
                you just need to anoint some joints, and fly yourself further!

                Erosion is actually destruction from external influences. Can your words be understood as - “the wings from friction against the atmosphere were rubbed”? Then it is not treated with any “grease”. laughing
                1. Maki Avellevich
                  Maki Avellevich 3 November 2017 12: 10 New
                  0
                  Quote: kirgiz58
                  Rosium is actually destruction from external influences. You can understand your words as - “the wings from friction against the atmosphere were rubbed”


                  Yes, just like that, gas friction also leads to erosion, at the joints the pressure can be higher and therefore the friction count. gas per square meter centimeter is also more, etc.

                  I'm more plastic but the flow of materials seems

                  Quote: kirgiz58
                  Then it is not treated with any “grease”.


                  about "grease" - sarcasm / joke, sir.
    3. Piramidon
      Piramidon 2 November 2017 14: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: regdan
      it turns out that Israel delivered defective planes ....


      It is reported that the production of fighters did not stop. A month later, on October 20, shipments continued.

      The main thing is to quickly rivet these pepelats and sell until they rot. laughing
    4. Maz
      Maz 2 November 2017 15: 23 New
      +1
      Lord, when will they finish repairing it? You understand directly why we need the T-50, to frighten the enemy’s flying platform with emptiness, so that they rivet eFki 22, 35, etc. and sold them to the allies.
    5. Barshchik-M
      Barshchik-M 2 November 2017 20: 10 New
      +7
      Quote: regdan
      it turns out that Israel delivered defective planes ....

      Israel by special order! After all, it all started with them, advertising, etc. .... Scam of the century! Navar is the base word ...
      I think Ukraine will soon be delivered .. hehe For 100 years they will owe to the West ..
  2. Ustin Umarov
    Ustin Umarov 2 November 2017 13: 53 New
    0
    But cho doesn’t rot in cotton-wool, wiped it with a pusalom?
    1. Smog
      Smog 2 November 2017 13: 59 New
      +7
      Quote: Ustin Umarov
      cotton-wool

      And what kind of animal?
      1. Hammerlock
        Hammerlock 2 November 2017 14: 23 New
        +4
        yes it’s not a beast - this is sick nonsense of Svidomo (or whatever they have) potato
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 2 November 2017 16: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Hammerlock
          yes it’s not a beast - this is sick nonsense of Svidomo (or whatever they have) potato

          This is a stray one, we have Russian as if unofficially the main ..
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 2 November 2017 14: 04 New
      +5
      We wipe with vodka every day, the water simply has nowhere to come from.
      1. win
        win 2 November 2017 14: 20 New
        +6
        - Look what they write. Manufacturers of Coca-Cola removed harmful brominated vegetable oil from the composition.
        - Pancake! Really tryndets folk recipes for removing rust, corrosion? ... belay
        1. Smog
          Smog 2 November 2017 14: 26 New
          +6
          Quote: Siegen
          Manufacturers of Coca-Cola removed harmful brominated vegetable oil from the composition.

          Pound it! Thanks for the news. yes In our village, it’s still like an old importation. An urgent need to grab a dozen bottles. To wash the toilet for two years should be enough .... hi
          1. Partyzan
            Partyzan 2 November 2017 15: 02 New
            +6
            Quote: Smog
            An urgent need to grab a dozen bottles. To wash the toilet for two years should be enough ...

            already running to the store - it will end soon laughing
    3. Partyzan
      Partyzan 2 November 2017 15: 01 New
      +5
      via
      pusalom
      - blew
  3. Simon
    Simon 2 November 2017 13: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: regdan
    it turns out that Israel delivered defective planes ....

    It looks like titanium is being saved. They are afraid that our embargoes will be imposed on him. laughing
    1. Ugolek
      Ugolek 2 November 2017 14: 04 New
      +1
      Yes, this is ridiculous, they write that they say nothing is wrong, and 250 aircraft rushed to check themselves. Jewish friends - also check your pepelats are super-advanced, otherwise you never mind ..
      1. Ugolek
        Ugolek 2 November 2017 14: 06 New
        +2
        But cho doesn’t rot in cotton-wool, wiped it with a pusalom?


        They rot, but exclusively Niva, airplanes mercilessly wet igilat.
        1. win
          win 2 November 2017 14: 18 New
          +3
          - Petka! You have a rifle - all the redhead from corruption!
          - It corrosionVasily Ivanovich!
          - AND! Another thing! And I thought - your enemies gave you a bribe so that you don’t clean laughing
  4. Egorovich
    Egorovich 2 November 2017 14: 03 New
    +6
    It's okay, only they will soon fall apart in the air. It is necessary to sympathize with all who bought this "creation."
  5. Livonetc
    Livonetc 2 November 2017 14: 13 New
    +1
    Soon we will be aware of all the problems of the 35th to the last screw and gasket. :)
    Is this the application of the method of distraction to an "unusable object"?
    Does he even fly? :)
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 22 New
      +4
      "method of distraction to an" unusable object "?" ///

      This is a method of distraction FROM unsuitable (or rather, unprepared) objects. yes
      1. Incvizitor
        Incvizitor 2 November 2017 14: 31 New
        0
        For me, it’s better to run the unprepared ones to readiness to bring them to the series and then, than the unprepared marriage to the series. request
        Although it depends on what goal you are achieving: if you make a good plane, that’s exactly how it is and if you throw suckers, then you can pair the marriage by pin.
        So I would be very against the production of 300, for example, su 50 with a bunch of flaws, so that later I would finish each one, like it looks like a dough cut.
  6. Herculesic
    Herculesic 2 November 2017 14: 14 New
    +1
    And what about the acceptance, and all the more so that the guest workers collected there? ?? fool The vaunted American quality is shy, and, in my opinion, shy already on both legs! !! belay
    1. kirgiz58
      kirgiz58 2 November 2017 16: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Herkulesich
      The vaunted American quality is shy, and, in my opinion, shy already on both legs! !!

      "why is he limping? .. broke his leg in childhood, .... let's break the second one for him, he will stop limping, will his gait just change?" - from a series of black humor. laughing
  7. win
    win 2 November 2017 14: 16 New
    +3
    Politics is the roof of the economy, trade is the attic, production is the foundation, security officials are the supporting structures,
    banks - cement mortar, logistics - engineering networks, advertising - decor, people - residents.
    And theft is corrosion everything from the foundation to the roof belay
  8. Livonetc
    Livonetc 2 November 2017 14: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: Ugolek
    But cho doesn’t rot in cotton-wool, wiped it with a pusalom?


    They rot, but exclusively Niva, airplanes mercilessly wet igilat.

    Here on the Niva is not necessary.
    Niva is what the doctor ordered.
    Sorry for the offtop
    Look at the link
    https://twitter.com/Albertich61/status/9250573919
    72012033? Ref_src = twsrc% 5Etfw & ref_url = https% 3A
    %2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%2
    3925057391972012033
  9. Livonetc
    Livonetc 2 November 2017 14: 23 New
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    "method of distraction to an" unusable object "?" ///

    This is a method of distraction FROM unsuitable (or rather, unprepared) objects. yes

    Wow did not immediately understand.
    Is this you probably about SU 57? :)
  10. NEXUS
    NEXUS 2 November 2017 14: 29 New
    +3
    “Corrosion, beyond technical limits,” in a place where the carbon fiber outer panel connects to the aluminum body of the aircraft, was discovered during routine maintenance at the Hill Air Force base in Utah. At the attachment point there was no protective coating that could prevent the problem, ”the agency writes with reference to the developer company.

    It also rusts. Hmm ... 300 pieces riveted, and problems all pop up and pop up.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 2 November 2017 14: 43 New
      +1
      And they will pop up. And be decided upon receipt.
      It is called: childhood diseases during mass operation of the aircraft.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 2 November 2017 14: 46 New
        +7
        Quote: voyaka uh
        And they will pop up.

        Of course they will, and I have said this more than once.
        Quote: voyaka uh
        It is called: childhood diseases during mass operation of the aircraft.

        No ... called-hemorrhoid, which is not eliminated at the design stage and experimental products. To me this fuss with this F-35 and its serial production, in which they eliminate engineering diseases, reminds me of that hero Vitsin with pots ... he also took the lowest one.
  11. Stas Snezhin
    Stas Snezhin 2 November 2017 14: 50 New
    +5
    I read the news. Well, I think in the comments the Jews will climb out of their skin,
    but in every way to praise the United States, and its products.
    And it turned out ..
  12. Zhelezyakin
    Zhelezyakin 2 November 2017 14: 54 New
    +3
    Quote: Jedi
    stole the special coating and drove

    Rather, in this particular place, its application was not foreseen, from the word - completely ...
  13. Esoteric
    Esoteric 2 November 2017 14: 59 New
    +1
    The best way to prove the worthlessness of the F-35 is to bring it down in an air battle or with the help of the S-300, 400 ... And all these rusts and corrosion of metals, we have already "examined". These showdowns in style: "I will tell my brother ... And I will tell dad, he is your brother ..." tired. I do not believe anything unverified, especially any writings of a man who did not even stand close with the F-35 ...
    A glance with reference to Reuters. belay wassat
  14. MadCat
    MadCat 2 November 2017 15: 13 New
    +4

    Russian Air Force: Corrosion detected on 80% of MiG-29 aircraft
    Inspection of all MiG-29 aircraft of the Russian Air Force revealed corrosion in 80% of fighters. This was stated by Deputy Air Force Commander-in-Chief Major General Oleg Barmin.

    According to him, a decision was made on the further operation of part of the aircraft with periodic monitoring. The rest will be repaired. “In 2009 alone, repair of 106 keels of the MiG-29 aircraft was planned,” Barmin said.

    In February of this year, the Russian Ministry of Defense for the first time recognized that about 200 of its MiG-29 fighters - almost a third of the country's fighter fleet - are not only capable of solving combat missions, but simply flying up. At the same time, Lieutenant General Sergey Bainetov, the head of the aviation aviation safety service, said that 30% of the MiG-29 had not detected corrosion.

    The Chinese were outraged by the quality of the SU-35


    About 70% of Russian military aircraft rotted, 50% of missiles failed
    In the "air show" over Red Square there was not a single post-Soviet development. For example, it was shown under the guise of a "new" front-line Su-24 bomber, which they began to design in 1965. The main fighter of the current Russian Air Force, the Su-27 began to be developed in 1969, and its main domestic "competitor", the MiG-29, was developed in 1972. Of course, both cars have been modified more than once, but the possibilities of any modification are not limitless at all, and the old machine, no matter how much you modify it, will not turn into a fundamentally new one. Back in 2009, the Russian Ministry of Defense recognized that about 200 out of almost 300 MiG-29 fighters could not fly into the air due to corrosion of the tail. Later, the Air Force commission found that tail plumage corrosion hit at least 80 percent of all MiG-29s. With the claimed airframe resource of about 20 years of service (2,5 thousand hours), a significant, and possibly most of these fighter jets flew for over 25 years. The MiG-31 interceptor went into production in 1979, but has been discontinued since 1993, and, as reported at a State Duma hearing in April 2013, no more than 120 such vehicles remained in the troops. At that time, Viktor Bondarev, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force, stated that the interceptor and the element base were obsolete morally and physically. The Su-30 heavy fighter is the modernization of the combat training Su-27 UB, flying since 1989, especially a lot of them in India, but the Indians blame the poor quality of these aircraft, six of which are already lost. The main claims are the unreliable operation of engines, due to defects of which the Su-30 crashes earlier than stated in the warranty, there are many claims to its electronics, which often fail, an ejection seat, which has the unpleasant property of triggering automatically during taxiing. The flagship of Russian military aviation, the Su-34 fighter-bomber, is just a modification of the honored Su-27 veteran, who began to design in the early to mid-1980s. Officially, it is already in mass production and is being supplied to the troops with might and main; in fact, it is too early to speak of full-fledged serial production. A few years ago, a commission of the Air Force’s commander-in-chief sent a conclusion addressed to the Minister of Defense, which stated that all the troops delivered to the Su-34 had significant defects that impeded their full-fledged combat use. Moreover, each of the machines had its own individual problems, and the Su-34 itself “raises complaints from crews who have to deal with flaws every flight”: this mainly concerned the radar and sighting and navigation system.

    in their eye, as they say, they didn’t notice the logs lol
    1. Ugolek
      Ugolek 2 November 2017 15: 44 New
      +3
      It is called: childhood diseases during mass operation of the aircraft.


      With such terms of refinement and implementation, this child is simply down ... the market is the market, whoever wants to buy it. With all my heart I wish the Hindus to buy this beautiful airplane of tails so 200, let it be sung, otherwise they forgot the Kama Sutra.
      1. Ugolek
        Ugolek 2 November 2017 15: 57 New
        +5
        These data above in a footcloth have some truth, but the presentation is clearly provocative. It turns out that the Su-34, MiG-35, Su-35 is junk created on the basis of the even older junk Su-27 and MiG-29, and F-16 with its endless blocks and F-15, what kind of steel birds to turn. Yes, okay, the Americans broke off with their F-22 because of an abnormal price, now they break off because they relaxed the rolls at one time, thinking that they had won the Cold War, and either lost their competence or grabbed a piece that they could not swallow . They stuffed the modern duper into the cart and for two decades they fucked themselves what they had done, they still can’t clear the shit. If we argue from the point of view of competition in terms and technology, then it is simply unacceptable to have such money and the ability to introduce an airplane for so many years. Already, China is on its way, the Russian Federation, and they all find jambs and will find. In general, Jews are better off building their own Kfir-2 or LaviSuper!
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 2 November 2017 16: 07 New
          0
          "and F-16 with its endless blocks and F-15, cool what steel birds" ///

          No. The same junk. No matter how you add Blocks - they are already outdated.
    2. Victor-M
      Victor-M 2 November 2017 22: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: MadCat
      Russian Air Force: Corrosion detected on 80% of MiG-29 aircraft

      Well, yes, well, yes, comparing the age of the MiG-29 and F-35, you can imagine what will be the F-th. laughing
      And then, what can I say, Russia is a gas station, and the rest of the "civilized" world is solid new technologies, where we are before their new technological corrosion. laughing
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 2 November 2017 23: 40 New
        +1
        Quote: Victor-M
        Well, yes, well, yes, comparing the age of the MiG-29 and F-35, you can imagine what will be the F-th.

        and the age of the SU-35 does not bother you anymore? lol
    3. raf
      raf 3 November 2017 22: 56 New
      0
      The Chinese were outraged by the quality of the SU-35
      wassat Damn, they made fun! He laughed, almost hiccups killed! Is this such a joke of humor? laughing good
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 4 November 2017 17: 21 New
        0
        Quote: raf
        Damn, they made fun! He laughed, almost hiccups killed! Is this such a joke of humor?

        Well, nothing surprising, it doesn’t smell de ** mo, a proverb, Russian folk. laughing
  15. Eurodav
    Eurodav 2 November 2017 16: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Going
    Do they also have private shops to preserve their steel horses? Although there are many of our former, they will teach anything.

    What makes you think that everything is perfect for them?
    It seems that everyone has already opened their eyes ...
  16. Eurodav
    Eurodav 2 November 2017 16: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Stas Snezhin
    I read the news. Well, I think in the comments the Jews will climb out of their skin,
    but in every way to praise the United States, and its products.
    And it turned out ..

    How not to kiss like that! Allies, bullshit, but we praise!
  17. Eurodav
    Eurodav 2 November 2017 16: 51 New
    0
    Quote: Livonetc
    Quote: Ugolek
    But cho doesn’t rot in cotton-wool, wiped it with a pusalom?


    They rot, but exclusively Niva, airplanes mercilessly wet igilat.

    Here on the Niva is not necessary.
    Niva is what the doctor ordered.
    Sorry for the offtop
    Look at the link
    https://twitter.com/Albertich61/status/9250573919
    72012033? Ref_src = twsrc% 5Etfw & ref_url = https% 3A
    %2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%2
    3925057391972012033

    I agree! Mine does not rot! We do not use salt and everyone is happy about it!
  18. cedar
    cedar 2 November 2017 16: 55 New
    +3
    "The supply of the F-35 was suspended for a month due to corrosion of the case"

    I just can’t understand how this gold bar can corrode?
  19. Fkjydjckfrgh
    Fkjydjckfrgh 2 November 2017 19: 12 New
    0
    If “does not affect airworthiness and is not a safety issue” then why is it called a problem?
  20. andrewkor
    andrewkor 2 November 2017 20: 38 New
    0
    Signals to TAPOiCh Il-76 from India for overhaul, examined as expected, and his ramp rotted, it turns out that there was regularly little need for flights. Can the F-35 have the same reason?
  21. rocket757
    rocket757 2 November 2017 22: 41 New
    +4
    The Yankees are ... lazy guys, they will bring to “mind” they and this miracle with wings, they shove it in the wards and do it to themselves ... figs they recognize that this is not what they really need!
    What, the most, this miracle of their aviation industry will be, let’s see, we’ll see ... but it will be a good target, frankly hinted by my ex ......, we can see it too.
    Although as for me let him fly ... wherever you are away from us.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. mkop
    mkop 3 November 2017 09: 33 New
    0
    Solomon Kaneand you are not far from the aircraft industry? Fretting does not form in welded joints. Do not write any nonsense. Understand first the topic that I wrote about.
  24. dimann271
    dimann271 3 November 2017 17: 26 New
    0
    "Shaw? Again?" - quote, you yourself know where!
  25. Kyzmich
    Kyzmich 3 November 2017 18: 35 New
    0
    Ci cago,
    Looks like you forgot what was in the country in the 90s.
    It’s good that production wasn’t killed at all.
    1. Ugolek
      Ugolek 4 November 2017 06: 13 New
      0
      Summing up the intermediate result, the amers managed to deceive the Jews themselves - to suck in an expensive aircraft with a bunch of problems! This is a historic moment!