Military Review

MIC is important not to repeat the mistakes of “Soviet-style conversion”

39
The peak of orders for the defense industry will be in 2017 year, and then their volume will decrease. So that the military enterprises would not be on the verge of ruin, the conversion of military production into civilian is already being launched in the country. What needs to be done to ensure that modern conversion does not suffer the fate of a failed conversion of 1980's?




The supplier of ammunition and explosives for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation - concern "Tehmash" - has recently presented at the exhibition machines for making Oriental coffee and a drying unit for vegetables and fruits. Plus developed on the basis of NPO "Device" samples of mini-breweries. In the arsenal of "Tehmash" there are already civilian products: furniture, samovars, "anti-radiation" shampoos, automated storage chambers.

This is one of the examples of the so-called conversion, which should help Russian military enterprises to move to civilian rails.

In the annual address to the Federal Assembly in December 2016, President Putin set the task of bringing the share of civilian products to 2025 in the year to 30% of the total output of the defense industry, and to 2030 in the year to 50%.

Thanks to the state armament programs, since 2007, the Russian defense industry has received a new round of development. But the defense order is not eternal, but cyclical, and every year the costs of rearmament will decrease. The maximum order quantity for the defense industry should be in 2017 year.

For defense enterprises, this means one thing - they will have to cut personnel and production. The essence of the conversion is to use the resources, knowledge and technology of military plants to create civilian products on their base. Then reducing the defense order will not be such a serious blow to military enterprises.

In this respect, the experience of the USA and China is interesting. The United States carried out the conversion after the Second World War, then in the 80-e years (from 1984 to 1994 year). The approach was systematic. The military shared technology for the civilian industry. The government commission examined all the military factories, and gave noncompetitive subsidies and closed them.

Not all achieved success, but only those companies that were able to competently conduct marketing research for new products, studied the markets and did not chase quick profits.

Because for the development of products and the conquest of the market it took not one or two years, but five to ten.

In China, conversion was undertaken in the 70 – 80-ies, and the first decades it went extremely slowly. All military ministries were declassified and with each were created their own commercial and industrial corporations. For example, the Seventh Ministry became the ministry of the space industry, and it established the Great Wall Corporation. Now it is widely known in the world as China Great Wall Industry Corporation, which manufactures and operates commercial satellites of the Earth.

By the middle of the 90-s, more than 1 million people - half of the personnel of the ground forces - were not really soldiers, but worked for machine tools in military units, which, in fact, were ordinary commercial factories. They then released the lion's share of cameras, bicycles, minibuses, etc. More than 2,2 thousand advanced scientific and technical defense developments for use in the civilian sector were declassified. By 1996, enterprises of the Chinese military industrial complex produced more than 15 thousand types of civilian products, mainly exported. By the beginning of the XXI century, the share of civilian goods in the gross output of defense enterprises reached 80%.

The reform of the defense industry in China continues to this day. Now they are trying to use the latest technology in the creation of civilian products so that if necessary it can easily be transformed into military needs. For example, in shipbuilding. This is stated in the recently published report of the expert council of the chairman of the board of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation “Diversification of the defense industry complex: how to win in civilian markets”

In the Soviet years, our country also experienced several conversions, which were not always successful. In 80, for example, defense enterprises were forced to produce seed drills or furniture, which generally had nothing to do with the mainstream military production. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia had an excessive defense industry complex, and a conversion program was also launched, but it was an imitation rather than a reality.

However, some companies still managed to move to civilian rails in Soviet times. In the state corporation "Rostec" cite as an example the plant them. Sergo, who at the beginning of the XX century produced shells for artillery shells. However, as early as in 1959, household refrigerators began to be made here. Now, under the new signboard Pozis and after modernization in the 2000s, modern wine cabinets and household refrigerators are being produced here. And the plant is the leader in the country for the production of high-tech refrigerators for the storage of vaccines and blood plasma.

An example of the Soviet conversion is the Izhmash plant, which after the Second World War began to specialize not only in the production of rifles and machine guns, but also in hunting and sporting weapons. After the former Izhmash fell into the hands of Rostec in 2013 and was renamed into the Kalashnikov Concern, from the last year, boats and yachts were also produced here. To this end, the concern acquired shares in the Rybinsk Shipyard in 2016.

The Research Institute of Applied Chemistry, which initially created pyrotechnics and grenades for military needs, also began manufacturing civilian products in 60. Now the Research Institute is famous for its professional fireworks, without which not a single city holiday, as well as signal and rescue means.

There are examples of modern conversion. Thanks to state support, for example, the share of civilian products in aviation sphere from the heart of aircraft - the engine to the eyes - avionics. For example, more than 50% of avionics for the MC-21 civilian aircraft is manufactured at Rostec enterprises. The same situation in shipbuilding and helicopter engineering.

A number of enterprises are making plans for a new conversion. In the Nizhny Novgorod Region, the Central Research and Development Institute “Burevestnik” (artillery armament production) plans to start production of equipment for automated sorting and recycling of solid household waste. 1,5 billion rubles will be spent on the R & D of such equipment. There are already agreements with investors, plans to start mass production in 2019 year.

KRET Holding, which serially releases, for example, the newest on-board defense complex “President-S”, recently created the CardioMarker, a compact device for monitoring the state of the heart and the whole body.

The Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant, which is part of the Shvabe holding, has succeeded in the production of medical equipment.

The volumes of supplies of medical equipment for perinatal centers are growing by leaps and bounds: from 113 million rubles in 2015 year to 1,13 billion rubles in 2016 year.

Shvabe already occupies 50% of the domestic neonatal equipment market. Not to mention the production of telescopes, binoculars, headphones for gamers and microphones for recording studios.

Rostec has big plans for the Rosselectronics holdings, Shvabe and the Avtomatika concern, which comprise the so-called electronic cluster. At these three military enterprises are going to organize the production of civilian products in five areas: industrial Internet of things, secure data storage systems, telemedicine, smart city and automated control systems of robotics. The strategy assumes that up to 2025, at these enterprises, the share of civilian products in the revenue structure should be over 60%.

The enterprises of the military industrial complex are also actively involved in the development of components for oil and gas equipment, for example, for the creation of subsea production complexes for Gazprom. Manufacturers of military equipment also intend to participate in the creation of equipment for conducting geological exploration research on the Arctic shelf and high-traffic technology. And on the basis of NPO Saturn they promise to start mass production of a large-capacity gas turbine plant.

However, the first vice-president of the Russian Union of Engineers, Ivan Andrievsky, believes that there are still not as many successful examples of conversion as we would like. “Success means mass character and wide recognition, but some military enterprises still understand quite specific products as civilian products that are not related to the everyday life of citizens. For example, the USC calls the vessel “civilian products” and non-military icebreakers, “Avitek” - the driver’s chairs, manual winches, automatic drinkers. The concept of civilian products also includes various souvenirs. For example, tekhmash samovars. The Kalashnikov concert, for example, produces civilian products, but these are either hunting rifles or souvenir T-shirts and pens. All this is undoubtedly important things, but the concept of “civilian products” would be worth clarifying so that no substitution of concepts would arise. When the expression “Tehmash furniture” will be pronounced as often as “Ikea furniture”, we can speak about real results, ”Andrievsky says.

In his opinion, in addition to Tehmash, Shvabe’s enterprises producing photographic lenses, binoculars and household telescopes, as well as a wide range of medical equipment, provide an example of real civilian products. “Shvabe” with its optics and medical equipment, which is used both in Russia and in Europe, is the most striking example of when defense developments were actively used in the civilian lineup, Andrievsky said. The neonatal equipment of the Ural Optical and Mechanical Plant is indeed certified in the EU and is actively exported there.

Director of the Institute for National Economic Forecasting of the Russian Academy of Sciences Viktor Ivanter divides Russian defense companies into three conditional groups. Some defense factories produce a military product that is extremely difficult, and sometimes impossible to adapt to civilian life. For example, missile systems or nuclear weapons complex.

Other enterprises are already working not only for the military, but also for the citizen, because their products are quite easily reformatted. These include the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), UEC, USC, Russian Helicopters, Almaz-Antey Concern, Shvabe. They, independently or with the support of the state, are increasing the share of civil aircraft, helicopters, engines, ships, telecommunications and medical equipment. The share of civilian products, as a rule, is already 25%.

The third group is the most numerous. At these defense enterprises, the share of civilian products is traditionally less than 10%. Diversification is possible, but difficult because of the high costs and serious work. For these enterprises, in the first place, a financial support system was created by the state within the framework of the “Conversion” program (launched this summer).

Through the Industry Development Fund, military factories will be issued loans totaling under 1% in the first three years and under 5% in the following years. The Russian export center will help to show products at international exhibitions, to increase awareness and open the export window. That is, the start of conversion with the support of the state has already been given.

However, there are many more reasons why conversion is not always successful. Many military factories themselves sometimes pay little attention to civilian products or do it on a residual basis. “Enterprises have obliged to produce civilian products on orders from above, and not because they want to make money on sales to the public and business. With this attitude, it is difficult to achieve genuine involvement. In addition, the restriction is imposed by the existing equipment and technological schemes, ”said Andrievsky.

Another important problem is that the military does not attract competent marketers and designers who could help create products that are in high demand. “Civilian products include important concepts of style and design, and with this, Russian manufacturers have always had problems,” says Andrievsky.

Most difficult to create a competitive product in principle. “At the end of 80, the beginning of 90, of the last century, defense companies already had the task of producing civilian products, they created it, but its cost was enormous and potential customers refused to buy it,” Finam »Jaroslav Kabakov.

Taking into account previous experience, the Institute of Economic Forecasting of the Russian Academy of Sciences proposes to try in Russia to develop conversion in the form of creating independent civil production in cooperation with the military. Moreover, civilian production does not necessarily have to be created at military sites, as long as it becomes a customer for defense plants. The second conversion option is to use the enterprises of the military-industrial complex as a pilot production for start-ups and small innovative enterprises.

In any case, the experience of other countries shows that for a successful conversion, apart from finance, patience and time are necessary. For one year to create a massive and well-known product is impossible. And to take away resources and people from the main activity, what needs to be done today, the military is not always solved.
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  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 5 November 2017 15: 21 New
    +6
    MIC is important not to repeat the mistakes of “Soviet-style conversion”
    Is it possible?
    First cognac, then cherry, and only then bone. (classic detective)
    1. Does the military-industrial complex arm and rearm? (programs for what year and for how many decades)
    2. Did VPK realize all its export opportunities? (Who helped and how? Isn’t it time to change assistants and put more agile? Everyone understands how to put sticks in wheels)
    3. How many pots did Boeing get? (This is not a royal matter, I will order and they will interpose. from a joke.)
    1. RASKAT
      RASKAT 5 November 2017 19: 09 New
      +6
      With the proper approach, and if you show a little imagination, the field for work is huge. In civilian shipbuilding, things are even worse with us than in the military, especially with sea bulk carriers and fishing vessels. The last floating base was built during the USSR. This applies to shipbuilding enterprises.
      For aircraft manufacturers, there is no plowed field at all, 90% of the Boeing and Airbus fleets.
      Machine-tool building, electronics, high-value-added products, etc. Yes, damn, we take at least the same spare parts for cars, and not only that. When we already learn to make it respectable that a Russian bearing is not a piece of g ......., recently a gearbox was again made on one of the working machines, the third time in a year, our Moscow bearings did not last long. We have to install bourgeois ones, they are more expensive, but we are damn that we can’t do normal ourselves. And so in everything from the tool, etc. It is necessary to raise the quality of products, but many will say they need money to modernize enterprises, so let the military-industrial complex take care of their enterprises, because partly they went through modernization.
      1. maxim947
        maxim947 5 November 2017 21: 36 New
        0
        I agree, the field isn’t plowed, it’s necessary to work more and not to stamp the program, but without the desire for production and the simultaneous support of the state, you won’t get one fig on the market, either you need to subsidize it in the initial period or increase import duties.
        1. RASKAT
          RASKAT 6 November 2017 00: 44 New
          +3
          It is necessary to recognize the Donbass and annex it to Russia, perhaps a couple more Ukrainian regions and Transnistria in addition. I hope that after this, such sanctions will be introduced against us that it finally comes to our effective managers that it is worth developing the domestic one. And if not, then there will be no way out, hosh is not hosh, but it will be necessary to develop the domestic one and focus on the domestic consumer.

          laughing
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 6 November 2017 01: 05 New
            +8
            Quote: RASKAT
            It is necessary to recognize the Donbass and annex it to Russia, perhaps a couple more Ukrainian regions and Transnistria in addition

            Well, what can I say? Seriously, it’s not possible, like this then:
      2. Mih1974
        Mih1974 6 November 2017 02: 47 New
        +6
        There has been a problem in Russia since 1917 - "those who can solve the problem do not see it." You say bad Russian bearings, but does anyone who can solve this problem (a scientist, a seller, a plant owner) know about it? Does he have an “incentive” to solve this problem? After all, while the Western auto industry did not begin to strangle Russian ones, no attempt was made to raise the quality (and design) of cars. They act according to the principles of "buy - not going anywhere." negative Whereas TAM everyone who sees the “possibility of improvement” thinks not about improvement, but about “how much he will earn on this” (the same “interest”).
        In normal production, the Leadership and Marketing Department - “they tear it up” to find where else they could push their products or “what kind of close production can we master and grab another piece of the market” good But the leaders of the military-industrial complex often "sit on .op exactly" and only "carry out the plan." Moreover, there is no interest in "lowering the cost" for defense industry products, simply because MO is already buying it and doing something better and cheaper is to reduce the loot. And this, in turn, translates into - "an allowed margin (for example) of 20% and a reduction in cost leads to a decrease in this margin." request
        I still don’t understand how can there be a decrease in the defense order? Maybe I, but - the Su-57 is not a single serial, Armata - we are waiting for a hundred for testing, the "warrior" is insignificant in volume, the fleet is practically absent and I'm not talking about aircraft carriers, etc. So what weapons will Russia refuse?
        Much more reasonable is not "conversion", but - the creation of new civilian production based on the military-industrial complex! good . That the Chinese pyrotechnics have already economically defeated Russia, can they only buy Russian caterpillar equipment (tractors, escovators, bulldozers)? And there are many such spheres, "devastation in the heads."
        1. cariperpaint
          cariperpaint 6 November 2017 07: 55 New
          0
          order reduction is inevitable. just because the army is not rubber. warriors are negligible / about 50000 sets per year are very good numbers. we have an army of less than 800000 people. gradual saturation of very complex systems is reasonable. su 57 and armata from the same opera.
  2. AID.S
    AID.S 5 November 2017 15: 25 New
    0
    And live in a peaceful world .....
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 5 November 2017 15: 51 New
    +2
    The main thing is that the military-industrial complex does not repeat the mistakes of the Soviet conversion, and that it does not become the same as the current import substitution!
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 6 November 2017 15: 41 New
      +2
      The "Soviet" conversion is a very competently conceived and conducted sabotage event aimed at destroying technology and eliminating the professional backbone of our defense industry. hi
  4. izya top
    izya top 5 November 2017 16: 22 New
    +4
    industry and personnel for it were killed not by Soviet conversion, but by perestroika conversion
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 5 November 2017 17: 44 New
      0
      And the same in Soviet ...
  5. SMP
    SMP 5 November 2017 16: 27 New
    0
    When the expression “furniture Techmash” is pronounced as often as “furniture Ikea”, we can talk about real results, ”Andrievsky says.


    Furniture? only if something like that ... smile





    This is a joke, but seriously, the market is already overloaded with a bunch of furniture shops, small enterprises with small volumes, production flexibility and a short payback period, and defense enterprises are large-scale production, and will pay off only if more than 60-70% goes for export.
    And at the expense of only the domestic market of Russia, it is unlikely that investments will pay off, the crisis, people began to earn less, and therefore spend, plus excessive borrowing of the population, it depends on the study of the purchasing power of the population for different groups of goods what to release, and these statistics on the network no.

    Only banks have statistics on which groups of goods people most often take credit for, on a computer, on a smartphone, on a laptop, on a TV, on a dishwasher, etc.
    After analyzing the statistics of purchases over the past five years, we can think in which niche to start production. only who will give such statistics? This is a trade secret.
    Unless the banks are deprived of a license and went bankrupt in which the Central Bank has introduced its own management, there is no where to find more true purchase statistics.
    Foreign banks naturally will not provide it beyond the hill because it is a commercial product of banking.


    The American Visa payment system will naturally go much further, the domestic WORLD statistics has not worked out yet, so what? Unknown

    Apparently for ALL enterprises of the military-industrial complex it is necessary to create some kind of joint experimental industrial-trading platform, with settlements only according to the MIR payment system, and create your own bank for defense industry enterprises, to issue loans for the purchase of products.
    According to other statistics, it is impossible to generate demand statistics and the demand for manufactured products is almost impossible to predict the same, this is not state. order.
  6. Victor N
    Victor N 5 November 2017 16: 46 New
    +4
    Based on the experience of conversion in the 80s - 90s, the arrogance of management and specialists was very hindered. And their level of competence was greatly exaggerated. Everyone suffered.
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 5 November 2017 17: 43 New
    0
    ChTZ is about to do the tram. They wanted to build a diesel locomotive with the Americans ...
    1. SMP
      SMP 5 November 2017 19: 28 New
      +1
      ChTZ is about to do the tram. They wanted to build a diesel locomotive with the Americans ...


      There are things much better and depend on GDP personally, since only he can give those tasks to defense industry enterprises.
      The fact that not a single company in the world can do, but only the Russian defense industry, the production of Hybrid buses using a super variator as a kinetic drive instead of batteries.
      Since the frontiers of the production of lithium batteries and hybrid electric vehicles through the US government or the Fed, under the threat of ruin will force to abandon any such production of hybrid vehicles based on kinetic drives.


      Yaroslavl Motor Plant (YaMZ) Avtodizel of GAZ Group has begun mass production of YaMZ-530 CNG gas engines of the Euro-5 environmental standard.


      For example, add a N. Gulia drive to a four-cylinder gas engine of the YaMZ-530 CNG type and create an installation for urban Hybrid buses.
      The drive will be charged from idle during passenger boarding stops, at numerous traffic lights, and even in traffic jams like MKADA.
      That will reduce fuel consumption for this type of transport, probably in two if not three, transport companies in Russia will line up for Hybrid buses with such power plants.

      Super flywheel and supervariator of Professor Gulia
      http://alternattiveenergy.com/supermahovik-i-supe
      rvariator-professora-gulia /


      Then they will go for export to the BRICS countries, and there will be no competition because the market (((gigemon))) the USA will not let anyone release it, but will try everywhere it can prohibit the imposition of sanctions, etc. Well, like there is no corruption of lobby.

      Only the Russian defense industrial complex can do this, other pressure from the Shatov’s forehead will not stand it.

      In details.



  8. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 November 2017 18: 37 New
    +6
    Bullshit, actually.
    Arising from inability and unwillingness to plan their activities ahead - the military-industrial complex must at every moment have such power that would ensure the reproduction of military equipment at a given level. That is, if, for example, we determine the life of a tank to 30 years, and the number of tanks needed, to 3000 vehicles, then we must produce 100 tanks each year. The numbers, of course, are conditional, this is just an example.
    And here we go again - the spreads of the military-industrial complex in the 90s to 2008, then realized that the army was completely rushed to invest. We decided that it’s enough (I’m wondering - why ?! Re-equipping the fleet - failed, the Air Force is barely barely getting to the minimum sufficient level to represent some kind of force in the region, but the United States itself will sweep them with one left, a lot of weapons issues, land-hunters - T-72B3 is that tomorrow's technique?) conversion again, go make coffee machines ....
    And this despite the fact that the Serdyukov pricing system, although quite severely reduced the prices of military equipment, does not leave enterprises unable to develop from military orders, that is, there were no excess profits to invest in new production there.
  9. AKC
    AKC 5 November 2017 19: 07 New
    0
    but nothing happens !!
    it's called a cut! bad products will be produced also expensive !!!!!
    For example, consider a brewery! an individual entrepreneur (I am sure) will only make this cheaper better and faster. and at the military-industrial complex plant, a design bureau will work on it. economy department. procurers. craftsmen, workers in three shifts, and more. as a result, she will have the cost like the rocket that this enterprise produces, and they won’t buy it.
    Taking into account previous experience, the Institute of Economic Forecasting of the Russian Academy of Sciences suggests trying in Russia to develop conversion in the form of creating an independent civil production in cooperation with the military is that how? Yes, there are examples when the military-industrial complex managed to produce civilian products, but these are isolated cases, and for the most part none of this will come of it.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 November 2017 19: 43 New
      +3
      The Tula Instrument Design Bureau makes medical equipment, the country needs an MRI.
    2. SMP
      SMP 22 November 2017 14: 08 New
      0

      AKS November 0, 5 2017:19 p.m.
      but nothing happens !!
      it's called a cut! bad products will be produced also expensive !!!!!


      Why do you think that is bad?
      If from moon ebony then the furniture will be very good, especially after Shoigu’s recent contacts with President Philippine.

      Lunar ebony - wood of the Mabolo species (Diospyros blancoi A.DC.); extremely rare variety of black ebony. Homeland - Philippines, now found only in impassable forests of Myanmar. Lunar ebony is the only variety among ebony trees with light shades of wood. The texture of the tree is very beautiful. When sawing, it is white with greenish stains. After drying, the wood acquires a golden yellow color with black stains, veins and stripes. Sometimes stains and stripes can have other shades, for example, bluish, greenish, chocolate. Lunar ebony is prohibited from logging and removal. Myanmar rarely sells quotas for minor lots. Trees that are allowed to be cut, have an age of 400-450 to 1000 years. This is because the sapwood of ebony trees sometimes amounts to 70% of the total thickness of the tree and it is separated and thrown away immediately after cutting the tree, taking only the hard core, which is located in the very center of the trunk. The fact that the ebony tree turned out to be lunar is determined as the tree is cut down, since outwardly it is indistinguishable from other species of ebony trees. Ebony grows very slowly - centuries pass until the tree grows to marketable sizes. Due to the extremely slow growth, ebony wood acquires a huge density - up to 1300 kg / m³. It is very demanding on drying conditions, after drying it loses much in volume. It contains a large amount of essential oils, therefore it is resistant to environmental influences, to changes in humidity and temperature, does not decay, and is resistant to damage by insects, including termites. The most expensive, rare, exclusive and beautiful billiard cues with high playing characteristics and hardness are made from moon ebony, but it is worth noting that not every master will take on the manufacture of a cue from moon ebony, because the structure of the fibers and the high hardness require great experience from the craftsman in processing this very expensive wood and the presence of special tools with increased wear resistance, as Lunar ebony quickly and easily blunts virtually any cutting woodworking tool. Lunar ebony cues, especially solid ones, are piece goods and are very expensive. Also, furniture and interior items, decorative parquet, souvenirs, inlays are made from moon ebony. A square meter of lunar ebony parquet is sold individually and costs an average of about $ 50 (000).


      For example: Cues for Russian billiards from lunar ebony will diverge around the world, like Kalashnikovs, and will occupy a minimum of storage space, which will save on warehouse logistics.
      1. AKC
        AKC 22 November 2017 22: 34 New
        0
        I’m embarrassed to ask, but in order to make a cue or furniture you need a defense enterprise, you can’t do without a family business, for example? probably, a research institute is needed for this case? testers ?, crowds of superiors and designers?
        I don’t think the brewery will be bad, I’m sure of that! because nobody needs anything there, they will stamp sucks, follow directives and instructions, coordinate changes, approve plans to hold planning meetings ...... and other other things !!!!
        a defense enterprise must make weapons !!! and do it well, and don’t go into the sector where they simply tear it up !!!
  10. Justme
    Justme 5 November 2017 19: 28 New
    +4
    I am in the past - the developer of the military-industrial complex ..
    And when I returned to the industry for the last time - essentially the question was - "We? .. Will we somehow agree?"
    At the enterprise - absolutely impotent managing hierarchical pyramid ..
    At the top - the Chief Designer - a psychotic grandfather, supposedly - he is Doctor of Sciences, Honored Engineer and much more .. But .. I have known him since 1985 .. Any more or less difficult question where to say in essence - is it born or long demagoguery or tongue stuck in the fifth point ..
    But if I want to have the level of the Doctor of Science level - I’m working on it conscientiously .. and for decades .. and I can show the results .. and do it from project to project ..
    It should be noted that outside the gates, specialists who are able to solve space problems are very much in demand
    1. Justme
      Justme 5 November 2017 19: 43 New
      0
      Here it should be added
      So I work now in a private company .. In principle, we could help (we have a huge difference in qualifications ..) ... But, as I look, it is easier for this audience to fail ..
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 5 November 2017 19: 46 New
      +2
      For the most part, people with a head and hands work at the military-industrial complex - they certainly will not remain idle.
      1. Justme
        Justme 5 November 2017 19: 56 New
        0
        Last year - they are massively fleeing to our company, .. we take mainly to the workshop ... their current developers are absolutely not listed with us ..
  11. APASUS
    APASUS 5 November 2017 20: 32 New
    +1
    Strangely enough, this restructuring of the military-industrial complex begins, since such questions were originally envisaged. The military-industrial complex should produce goods with high added value, not furniture, pots.
    Just as an example, we do not have technologies and equipment in the production of polymers, not at all! The production of sophisticated medical equipment has a single nomenclature, even just take the production of dry transformers and then it remains in Baku ............................... ....
  12. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 6 November 2017 05: 38 New
    +1
    Quote: Victor N
    Based on the experience of conversion in the 80s - 90s, the arrogance of management and specialists was very hindered. And their level of competence was greatly exaggerated. Everyone suffered.

    And not only . When MMZ began to make cookie lines, after the release of 10 pieces there were no orders. To the question of customers: why not take it? Answer: the reliability is high, they will last for 20 years .... At the same time, the proposal for the production of telephone exchanges, equipment for the nuclear industry did not find a response ....
  13. Justme
    Justme 6 November 2017 10: 03 New
    +1
    The way the conversion problem is described in the article is a “top view”
    "Inside view" on this problem - it may be completely different.
    Here, the leading audience in the workshop, through a long perverse training and selection, was taught to "pull the cat for ...", here they are "pull the cat for .." in everything .. This work style is clearly not suitable for the civilian sector.
    If you want to achieve a serious result in a new area - there are two points ..
    - and who are you planning to bet on? Now the boss has a favorite protégé and the boss tells me already .. "Well, you, give us your ideas, ideas ... advise how to do all this .." And after the result is achieved, you can hear something like - "..And we all knew that ourselves ..."
    - to start in a new area, it is necessary to incur the costs of trial design iterations .. Here is a joke - resources may either not be allocated at all, or allocated - but only for favorite proteges ..
    And how can we evaluate the conversion chances in this particular case?

    There is another point that is not customary to talk about
    In almost all the enterprises where I worked, there is a layer of people who rarely speak but act like -
    ".. here I see our task .. money needs to be grabbed .. and work needs to be failed .. but failed so that they don’t point a finger at us ..." (big head of a large factory, .. these are his real words)
  14. SHURUM -BURUM
    SHURUM -BURUM 6 November 2017 10: 55 New
    +4
    And I do not believe in conversion that can compensate for the drop in funding from the MO. The civilian market is very different prices. For such prices (and profit recourse ) in the civilian sector they will be forced to work at a loss, whatever goods you take. Another thing is the industrial sector. But this area is already funded by the state, either explicitly or undercover, through state participation. There is no money in the state - and the industrial sector will purchase at a minimum. Work in the civilian sector can only be repaid if consumer goods developed by the enterprise are produced in a large series, as previously produced, for example, televisions, binoculars. We approached the Deputy General for Production with a proposal to organize the production of an instrument for the civil sector for installation in all trading organizations and outlets, which is simply doomed to mass demand. So he grabbed his head - we are not imprisoned for a series. And what awaits them, such? They are warmed up by the idea that we, such special ones, will not be allowed to fall apart, they will throw something up. I think I'm not alone in evaluating.
  15. nikvic46
    nikvic46 6 November 2017 12: 00 New
    0
    When I write that the wages of workers should depend on the profits of the enterprise, I get ridiculed. But Henry
    Ford thus achieved the high quality of his car. The worker earned 5 dollars a day, the highest
    in the country. In addition, he built a village for workers. The country where design thought is valued is an incubator of young
    "homemade", young talents who make their way in life with the help of industrialists. I am sure that in Russia
    a large number of talented ones are trying to break through their armor of bureaucrats, but it is profitable for industrialists to make money on old equipment. You just need to introduce a tax on depreciation of equipment. If the attitude towards innovators does not change, then the conversion will remain only on paper.
    1. groks
      groks 6 November 2017 17: 07 New
      0
      Oooooooo. Finally finish off the defense? We have no post-Soviet ones. And now they also have tax?
  16. Alex
    Alex 6 November 2017 15: 06 New
    0
    Yes, nothing happens. All this conversion in perestroika times did not fail at all from the stupidity of leaders. Here you need to understand the specifics of production. In the military-industrial complex (and I worked at an enterprise that produces radio equipment), there was a division of labor. Development institutes were engaged in development, and serial factories were engaged in the production of equipment. There were no developers at serial plants, therefore, when there was no state order, the factories were forced to rivet pans and pans. Our radio plant quickly degraded and now almost ceased to exist. It is unlikely that it will be different now.
  17. Tsoy
    Tsoy 6 November 2017 16: 19 New
    0
    China Great Wall Industry Corporation, which manufactures and operates commercial Earth satellites.


    Not only satellites, but also monitors. I have had their 9 machine for years in 24 / 7 mode. Here you have the Chinese quality.
  18. groks
    groks 6 November 2017 17: 04 New
    0
    Well, in general it’s a defense industry defender. We make motors for drives of everything, okay, maybe we can somehow get out. Although it is doubtful. But the neighbors make TGIPs! Why should they give a damn?
    In general, it means they have already overwhelmed the army with Armats, Coalitions, Boomerangs, ...?
    Then they are still surprised that Stalin is gaining popularity among the people. .
    1. SMP
      SMP 7 November 2017 10: 04 New
      0
      Well, in general it’s a defense industry defender. We make motors for drives of everything, okay, maybe we can somehow get out. Although it is doubtful. But the neighbors make TGIPs! Why should they give a damn?
      In general, it means they have already overwhelmed the army with Armats, Coalitions, Boomerangs, ...?


      For the military-industrial complex, in fact, work is not an edge on the civilian market, so you write, we make engines, and you need to continue to do them.


      The engine to Armata is 1200 l / s compact, if you reduce its power, that is, up to 600-500 l / s, you get a first-class deformed engine for car trailers.



      and at what it will easily receive a certificate of a millionaire.
      1. SMP
        SMP 7 November 2017 10: 18 New
        0
        get a first-class deformed engine


        get first-class deformed engine

        damn garbage somehow got out with a car replacement and does not give a fix .....
        eror / ..
      2. groks
        groks 7 November 2017 18: 34 New
        0
        Somewhat different engines. 3-4 orders of magnitude smaller in size and comparable price. wink Electic. For special drives - high-speed, lightweight, powerful. In short - with the squeezed parameters. Such citizens do not need. Of course, we can recall mixers and hair dryers, but we will not be able to compete with the Chinese on them. Passed already. The only thing that was at least somehow profitable was Stinol fans and heaters. But it was the effectivists who banged us - what is this 5% profit?
        I. If we get off the GOZ, but already really want to, then give us a PP. We will disperse these parasites. And the mobplans didn’t fall either. So if something happens, Putin and Medvedev will rivet tanks / missiles / ... themselves, and check Shoigu.
        There are two options - either or traitors. The worst thing is if both are immediate.
      3. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 7 November 2017 22: 16 New
        0
        This is nonsense ... it is X-shaped and hardly suitable for commercial use .... This year KAMAZ will launch a 12-liter diesel engine of 550-750 hp and a GAZ -550 hp ... that's enough for most vehicles. With a normal resource.
    2. SMP
      SMP 7 November 2017 10: 13 New
      0



      Well, actually this is a defense


      If you make four-axle all-wheel drive vehicles for the Far East and Siberia, for example, MIAS Ural, with deformed X-shaped millionaires from the T-14, then the power will be in demand for another 20 years.


      But under one condition, the state is obliged to create a military-industrial complex bank for lending to the civil sector, to provide loans for the purchase of its equipment, a leasing program, and a whole lot more, that is, to enable freight companies on such roads


      Take caravans making an initial contribution of at least 5-10%, that is, develop programs, and so, water does not flow under a lying stone.