Military Review

A titanium blow to America: measured seven times, not cut once?

237
In the Council of the Federation, “as a whole”, they support the draft law, which sets a limit on the cooperation between Russia and the United States in the export of titanium. According to some estimates, the US aircraft industry depends at least forty percent on Russian titanium. However, restrictions in the supply of titanium abroad would have a negative impact on the development of the state decoration of VSMPO-AVISMA, which employs more than 20 thousand people and whose products are widely represented on the world market.




The draft law on new sanctions against the United States, which is being prepared in the State Duma, provides for the restriction of exports from Russia of titanium, as well as a “possible” restriction of cooperation between Russia and the United States in space. According to various estimates, which leads the newspaper "News", Russia supplies Boeing and Airbus from 40 to 60% titanium.

Andrei Klimov, deputy chairman of the committee of the Federation Council on foreign affairs, confirmed to the publication: yes, such a document is being prepared, but it is important not to forget - measure it seven times, cut it once!

“On the whole, we, of course, support the State Duma’s bill, but we believe that everything must be very seriously calculated,” he said. "Izvestia". - Our responses to unfriendly actions of the United States should be systemic. The draft law, which is being prepared in the lower house of the Russian parliament, is precisely this system. It has a strict address binding, is mirrored and as concrete as possible. "

At the same time, Klimov seems to consider it necessary to err. In his opinion, “it’s completely understandable why this law is being prepared and what measures it will take,” the toolkit of Russian responses to US actions is “very rich.” And yet "you need to carefully weigh and analyze everything so that, God forbid, do not hit us, too." The question is that “our fellow citizens” work in the sphere of trade in titanium, which is bought from the Russian Federation by the Russian Federation, said Klimov, and therefore “we cannot break off the necessary contacts”.

“There are many areas where contacts with the United States are mutually beneficial, and there are also those where Russian retaliation can be implemented,” the senator concluded.

The publication also cites information from a certain "high-ranking source" in the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation. According to him, the bill does not yet fully take into account the interests of Russian companies, and they would not want to lose contracts with partners. “Russian factories today are aimed at creating partnerships with world leaders. This is a question not only of the economy, but also of the image of the country, of our industry as a whole, which, despite the sanctions, proves to the world its viability in high-tech markets, the source said. - For example, VSMPO-AVISMA today exports titanium products to 48 countries, has 350 customers around the world. Its clients include the world's largest engine and aircraft manufacturing companies, not only American ones. Including Boeing, EADS, Embraer, UTAS, Messier-Bugatti-Dowty, Rolls-Royce, Safran, Airbus, Pratt & Whitney. " Speaking about specific facts, the interlocutor of the newspaper pointed out that most of the titanium products for the newest Boeing 787 Dreamliner are "designed and manufactured in Russia."

Measure seven times, we note, it was said not in vain. You can talk about counter-sanctions for a long time, but you can leave a business without a job and without clients with one stroke of a pen.

The said VSMPO-AVISMA state corporation operating in the field of non-ferrous metallurgy is the world's largest (!) Manufacturer of titanium and all types of semi-finished products made of titanium alloys. The state corporation staff today has over 20.000 employees. The controlling stake in AVISMA is owned by the management of this largest titanium producer, and the blocking stake (25% plus one share) is owned by Rostec. It is thanks to "Rostec", as reported on his website“VSMPO-AVISMA” “has deeply integrated into the global aerospace industry and has become for many companies the main supplier of titanium products”. The corporation is internationally accredited by Nadcap for manufacturers in the aerospace and military industries.

Some open numbers.

The volume of investment in the production of the above titanium "VSMPO-AVISMA" is planned at the level of 55 billion rubles (2017 year). Such impressive amounts are going to increase production volumes: demand for the company's products, including from large foreign aircraft manufacturers, is growing.

Two years ago, in 2015, an ultramodern smelting shop was commissioned, which allows you to double (!) The power of smelting superpure titanium.

The company produces annually about 30 thousand tons of titanium products, and most of it is exported.

The developments of VSMPO-AVISMA allow the company to be a supplier for three hundred (!) Companies covering fifty countries. The number of buyers includes the world aviation leaders named above: Boeing, Airbus, etc.

Today VSMPO-AVISMA provides up to 40% of the needs for aviation titan Boeing, 60% of the needs of EADS (Airbus) and 100% - Embraer. Forty to one hundred percent! In addition, every year (!) There is an increase in the volume of deliveries and a nomenclature of blanks for Russian and international enterprises.

VSMPO-AVISMA is a key partner and supplier of titanium for the Boeing - Civil Aircraft division. The first agreement was signed in 1997; The development of cooperation led to the opening of the Ural Boeing Manufacturing joint venture in Verkhnaya Salda in 2009. In July 2014, the parties extended the contract for the supply of titanium rolled products to 2022. VSMPO-AVISMA pledged to support the contract: support includes logistics, cutting and delivery of products through a network of distribution centers in the United States, the United Kingdom and other countries.

And these are examples of Boeing alone.

On the site "VSMPO-AVISMA" published the mission of the company. And for good reason, integration into the world economy is derived there in several keywords:

"Ensuring the life of the association, the preservation and development of the titanium industry in Russia, integration into the world economy."


Hence the main objectives of the enterprise:

- production of products that meet the requirements and expectations of consumers in accordance with international and national standards, legislative and mandatory requirements;

- improving the competitiveness of products in domestic and foreign markets.

The objectives of the corporation are to provide basic sectors of the economy and access to prestigious sectors of world markets: Aviation, space, chemistry, energy, etc.

"VSMPO-AVISMA", according to open data, produces more than 90% of Russian titanium! The financial results of the corporation are growing steadily, including during the years of sanctions: revenues in 2009 amounted to 26 billion rubles, and in 2015 - almost 79 billion rubles. Over 2015, compared to 2014, exports grew by 5,9%. But both 2014 and 2015 are years of sanctions!

The theme of "titanium revenge" is almost a dead end. You can ruin your own corporation, put an end to its development and its presence in the global economy. If Russia has something to go to open world markets with, then you have to go out! Deputies and senators can make a lot of noise about the titanium revenge on the West, however, going with the bill to the final, the Duma is better to think about.

By the way, they talked about the titan revenge back in the summer of 2017. And the experts considered this a shot of Russia in their own foot.

In August, 2017, director of the Center for Political Science at the Financial University under the Government of the Russian Federation, Pavel Salin, suggested that the response measures would rather be verbal. And this is despite the fact that Moscow "has the opportunity to respond in such a way that the American side will suffer serious damage, which will far exceed the damage to Russia from the recent personal sanctions." Expert said "Free Press":

“We are talking about limiting the supply of enriched uranium and titanium in the United States. American industry and nuclear power are quite dependent on these supplies. But the problem is that this is a real self-shot. "


According to the expert, the damage to the Russian side will be much greater than the losses of the American side. In addition, when “serious lobbyists can suffer damage, for example, those engaged in the nuclear industry or trade in non-ferrous metals, the government is reluctant to take such measures.”

That is why P. Salin believed that the reaction to Washington’s sanction actions in Russia would remain only “at the verbal level”.

So, restrictions in the supply of titanium abroad may adversely affect the development of the state decoration of VSMPO-AVISMA, whose products are widely represented in the world market, especially in the United States market.

Apparently, the State Duma puts the policy cart before the horse of the economy. However, the bill still remains a bill, also unfinished. All his “hardness”, presumably, will remain a verbal husk intended for the media, adoring loud headlines. In the Federation Council, the lack of simplicity was delicately made it clear to the deputies that “everything must be carefully weighed and analyzed so that, God forbid, it doesn’t hit us either.”

Measure seven times - never cut!

Or are there so many industries in Russia that keep up with the times and supply more and more products to the world market?

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
237 comments
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 30 October 2017 07: 23
    17
    The bill, which is being prepared in the lower house of the Russian parliament, just implies this consistency. It has a strict address binding, is mirrored and as specific as possible. ”

    ... let’s look at the exit, what is the “mirroring” and what is the reality ... request
    1. 210ox
      210ox 30 October 2017 17: 04
      +9
      The main thing is not to step on the throat of your economy .. How did the kakals ..
      Quote: aszzz888
      The bill, which is being prepared in the lower house of the Russian parliament, just implies this consistency. It has a strict address binding, is mirrored and as specific as possible. ”

      ... let’s look at the exit, what is the “mirroring” and what is the reality ... request
      1. Evdokim
        Evdokim 30 October 2017 17: 48
        +4
        Quote: 210ox
        . look at the output, what is the "mirroring" and what is the reality ..

        Why should they be compared to these idiots from Congress, they are just waiting for retaliatory sanctions in order to squeal to the whole world. And they will declare us as Ukrainians as achressors and so on, we will untie their hands, just the Sabbath will begin at the Capitol. "Gift"all sorts of McCain. hi
        1. demo
          demo 30 October 2017 20: 21
          +7
          Plus set you.
          But the question has ripened.
          But how do you see the answer to the arbitrariness of the Americans?
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 30 October 2017 23: 01
            28
            Quote: demo
            But how do you see the answer to the arbitrariness of the Americans?

            Sale prices increase ..... they say, nothing personal, sanctions! bully
            1. Evdokim
              Evdokim 31 October 2017 03: 37
              +3
              I agree, and more specifically.
              1. Sargas
                Sargas 2 November 2017 03: 11
                +8
                This topic has long been voiced, but for some reason the "popular masses" do not want to remember it.
                Titanium and RD-180 are bought from us not because they cannot produce it themselves, but because it is more profitable with us.
                We solder the embargo on titanium - in a year we will build our plants (and China - in six months). We solder the embargo on rocket engines - after six months we will increase the production of our own (they are worse and more expensive, but they are) engines.
                But Russia will not be able to return to the market before American and European plants are bombed.
                The embargo on titanium and RD-180 is not fatal, but only a painful, temporary measure, and completely disposable, applicable only when the first guns have already fired, and the first missiles have already taken off.
                1. anhydride
                  anhydride 4 November 2017 13: 30
                  +6
                  Dear, it is precisely Russia that has serious reserves of titanium in China, but China barely has enough for its own needs, no one has more substantial reserves, as far as I know, moreover, the world is buying not just titanium hire, as in the beginning, but it is precisely the products made of it, and the rd-180 rocket engines that’s why they buy from us, because they themselves can’t produce it, read on this topic in the internet and understand that to create, test and put into production such an engine will take at least 10 years and a few 10 - billion billion bucks, if not hundreds, but you have to fly now. McCain had probably torn out all the hair on his ass in order to refuse the rd-180, but even managed to explain this to the senile that without him, and even about titanium, the article clearly says that almost the whole world buys titanium from Russia, and the refusal to sell the United States should not cause a completely destructive effect. And in general, no war is without loss, including the sanction. Well, let's now tighten the tail and continue to swallow all insults to this "government" of our "partner", aren't you tired ????? I’ve already fed up, and I think that this congress is doing everything to really start a war with us, they are stupidly looking for an excuse, moreover, I’m just sure at 1000% that this war will somehow be pulled together under various far-fetched prepositions of troops to our borders, does this not remind anything ?, for example 1941
                  1. Al Bychkov
                    Al Bychkov 6 November 2017 10: 29
                    +2
                    It seems to me that we just need to build the planes ourselves, in short, the whole amount of titanium that goes to the USA must be mastered by ourselves and let our planes buy or fly whatever they want, and this will be done without a return, we will help our factories at the same time. similarly for rocket engines, I'm sure the country will benefit from this
                  2. nerd.su
                    nerd.su 6 November 2017 11: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: anhydride
                    Dear, it is precisely Russia that has serious reserves of titanium in China, but China barely has enough for its own needs, no one has more substantial reserves, as far as I know,

                    Russia has second reserves after China, but there is no sense in this, because our production uses raw materials from Ukraine, Australia, etc. Our plus is in the production. But it’s a minus, because the main consumers - Boeing and Airbus, impose sanctions and production will rise. And in the US there are 2 sponge manufacturers and with dozens or more titanium ingots. A holiday will come for them. As for China.
                  3. FalconSD
                    FalconSD 19 November 2017 01: 42
                    0
                    you know, unfortunately, the Americans flew into space before rd-180 and will fly after. about any breaks for "10 years without space" can not even be discussed. and what decades and “they can’t” constantly repeat some of the marginals in “these Internet”, when now at least two large companies are developing analogues of the rd-180 and one of them is already testing ready-made prototypes. In addition, the United States has a license to manufacture the rd-180 itself. and, of course, "tens of billions" to develop new engines for the United States is not a problem with a budget of 3,5 trillion, not to mention "not enough - we'll print it."

                    and about the war it’s you in vain. will not, cannot be, will not take place. the fact that "pulls toward the borders" does not pull in the breakthrough group in any way, and the Americans themselves do not want to turn their country into a desert. so since the time of Kennedy, a direct war between the United States and Russia (USSR) was no longer possible. and indirectly, it is already going on - economic, political. but there’s nothing new. if you are "tired of it," this is no reason to start a war. because as a result, you, too, are guaranteed to perish, like me, like everyone who is dear to us. a better bad world than "guaranteed mutual annihilation." It is believed that there will be no nuclear winter and all living things will not perish. part of Europe, Africa, Australia, Asia, all of South America will remain. Can you imagine how dreary it will be for us to observe from above, if the afterlife exists, how the planet lives on without the USA and Russia? bad, but lives. China will occupy a leading position in the world, they will decide there, do something, live. but neither we nor the Americans will see it. and a small number of Russians and Americans will remain - several millions scattered around the world. Can you imagine how the survivors will look at them? self-cutting is not an option if you are tired of reading news about arrogant Americans. my wife has poor eyesight, she wears American contact lenses. not because he loves America, but because they are not produced in Russia. so, for example, I know for sure that in addition to the moron-mccain in the usa, there are plenty of worthy and useful people who make excellent contact lenses. there are people who have created for you a computer on which you read the news, its operating system. not all Americans. I'm not saying that the simultaneous death of half a billion people on both sides is a grief of scale, in comparison with which your “experiences” are not worth nothing, you simply have to split into atoms for one thought about it. Or are you clinical and think that Russia will fight with the US tanks and infantry?
            2. Sverdlov
              Sverdlov 31 October 2017 18: 14
              0
              Similar offer.
              And prat and whitney also take revenge. Or let them buy through third countries, for example, Belarus. Old Man will be glad immensely ...
          2. horhe48
            horhe48 31 October 2017 08: 43
            +5
            It is unclear to our appointees from whom (convenient, nomenclature, obedient, former athletes, etc.) in the Duma and the elderly provincial nomenclature in the Federation Council there seems to be nothing to do. What they really need to do, they don’t understand and don’t know how. remnants of the mind in front of any bossy sneeze from the Presidential Administration and the Council of Ministers. And the flared up titanium cheese-boron, therefore, also does not carry any meaning. Air shock and not more. that in relation to the states and the so-called “west”, and maybe the “east”, we need to relate the same way the buyer does in the supermarket. That is, take from them only what we need (mainly technologists, the latest equipment for production and money) and go past what we don’t need (their ideology, weapons, food, orientation to gays, etc.)
            1. St Petrov
              St Petrov 31 October 2017 14: 22
              +1
              That is, to take from them only what we need (mainly technologists, the latest production equipment and money)


              is this a post-dream
        2. Dembel77
          Dembel77 30 October 2017 20: 32
          17
          If the Duma members adopt this law (God forbid, of course), then it seems that the times when VSMPO AVISMA made, as they said in the times of the Union, consumer goods would not return. By the way, some samples of the products regularly serve my family until now. These are wonderful pots and pans of real food stainless steel (which, unlike the Chinese one, does not magnetize), besides all the dishes with a thick double bottom. There is even a titanium garden spade in my collection (!!!). Things are certainly good, but it is better to let them produce unique blades for turbines, which very few people in the world can do!
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 30 October 2017 22: 59
            +5
            Quote: Dembel 77
            There is even a garden bayonet shovel in titanium (!!!) in my collection.

            Yes! There was such a "moment" in the "economy" of the country ... even titanium barrels (!!!) were reported ... belay
          2. Seryoga Gord
            Seryoga Gord 31 October 2017 04: 46
            +3
            But how do you like the flask for alcohol from Severodvinsk, from a titanium-submarine nuclear submarine? ...))
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 31 October 2017 07: 16
              +6
              A flask of alcohol is better (!) A flask of alcohol! (Aphorisms of an experienced alcohol taster)
          3. warks
            warks 31 October 2017 16: 06
            0
            Titanium shovels were painted under ordinary and cordon.
          4. Al Bychkov
            Al Bychkov 6 November 2017 10: 35
            0
            in theory, the whole point is to develop your economy and technology, it is much more productive. you just need to stop being a commodity sponsor. Russia may well be self-sufficient at the expense of domestic resources, it is only necessary to approach this sensibly.
        3. Nikolai Grek
          Nikolai Grek 30 October 2017 21: 27
          +8
          Quote: Evdokim
          Quote: 210ox
          . look at the output, what is the "mirroring" and what is the reality ..

          Why should they be compared to these idiots from Congress, they are just waiting for retaliatory sanctions in order to squeal to the whole world. And they will declare us as Ukrainians as achressors and so on, we will untie their hands, just the Sabbath will begin at the Capitol. "Gift"all sorts of McCain. hi

          what what what a strange approach ... in this way they can drive us at random and shout in a variety of ways, but according to your method - do not answer !!! wassat wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing
          1. FalconSD
            FalconSD 19 November 2017 01: 48
            0
            You need to answer, but not to your own detriment.
        4. Woland
          Woland 30 October 2017 22: 11
          16
          1.When affected by the HONOR of the country, talking about money is UNSPECIFIED! 2. If we are so prudent, there’s nothing to chatter and threaten, we will be considered vacant. 3To start let our rulers respond at least with mirror measures. Or again, "what will Princess Marya Aleksevna say?" then let them be silent in a rag and whine like beaten dogs
          1. voron770247
            voron770247 31 October 2017 09: 40
            +3
            It’s inappropriate to wear a pan on your head ... The Yankees have a simple principle - sanctions, not to the detriment of oneself, beloved ones, i.e. their actions are logical in contrast to your understanding of the sanctions policy ... It’s not necessary to become like Khokhlov, where the ears of a grandmother are frozen ... Evil is not so rich as to lose such an income to the budget.
            1. freddyk
              freddyk 4 November 2017 18: 02
              0
              If so, then we generally have nothing to answer to the amers without harming ourselves. Well then, what’s to cheat your cheeks, and think of yourself as a Super Power, reconcile yourself and keep quiet
              1. Sargas
                Sargas 17 November 2017 20: 28
                +1
                The only Gas Station in the world capable of destroying Hegemon in 45 minutes - unreasonably considers itself a "Superpower"?
                PS That's just the argument again - one-time ...
          2. anhydride
            anhydride 4 November 2017 13: 36
            0
            I’d better not say, I completely agree with you hi good
            1. anhydride
              anhydride 4 November 2017 13: 37
              0
              this is for woland
    2. Seryoga Gord
      Seryoga Gord 31 October 2017 04: 59
      +4
      the stupidity of our deputies will be worse than the mattress sanctions, of which the fighter is only our holders of offshore capital, whose names we will find out in February-March from the Congress report, and the meriak pisyuky in economic terms with a trading partner in the amount of 20 billion dollars / year, only "beat their own, strangers were afraid "... so, we are waiting for" our answer to Chamberlain "...))
    3. Samaritan
      Samaritan 31 October 2017 11: 09
      10
      Why TITAN? When there is a makchiken, a hamburger and Ford .... THIS IS THE NEXT DAY THE COMPETITORS WILL REPLACE! So authorize!
      1. Sargas
        Sargas 2 November 2017 03: 19
        +3
        But with you - I completely agree.
        We live in a world in which to produce is much easier than to sell. And sanctions should not be on exports, but on imports. I recall the screech of Poland and Turkey (and riots in France) just because of apples and tomatoes.
        1. freddyk
          freddyk 4 November 2017 18: 11
          0
          And what do we import from amers, except for iPhones and Windows?
  2. svp67
    svp67 30 October 2017 07: 26
    32
    The Federation Council “as a whole” supports the bill, which sets a limit on cooperation between Russia and the United States in the export of titanium.

    Oh, America shuddered .... Do not flatter yourself, our titanium will be quickly replaced by others, the same China. Yes, it will cost more for the USA, but they will have it
    However, restrictions on the supply of titanium abroad would adversely affect the development of the VSMPO-AVISMA goscorporation, which employs more than 20 thousand people and whose products are widely represented on the world market.
    But didn’t VSMPO-AVISMA be included in the latest sanction lists? So for this corporation on the world stage, the times are not very sweet. Personally, I see one way - to develop our own aircraft production, using our own titan and down with the Russian sky Boeing, while it is possible to get along with Airbus, especially since this European company has BIG problems in the USA.
    1. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 30 October 2017 16: 56
      +2
      It’s easy to exit the market. And enter again ???
      In the meantime, Trump hurried to the TOZ.

      November 3-14, US President Donald Trump's first 10-day Asian tour
      On November 3, Trump will stop in Hawaii on his way to Japan, where he will hold a meeting with the head of the US Pacific Command.
      - November 5. visit to Japan on November 7

      After Tokyo, he will visit South Korea, China, Vietnam and the Philippines.
      The main purpose of this trip is to agree on increasing diplomatic and economic pressure on Pyongyang in order to curb its nuclear ambitions.
      Trump is also expected to discuss trade and economic ties with the region and attend the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit in Vietnam and the Summit of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in the Philippines.
      The six-day summit will open on November 6 in the central city of Danang. The summit will bring together leaders from 21 APEC countries, including US President Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping. And the President of the Russian Federation In Putin
      On November 10, the four-day ASEAN Summit will begin in the Philippines. (Association of Southeast Asian Nations). The main topics of discussion are economics and security.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 06
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, it will cost more for the USA, but they will have it

      More expensive and worse - which will mean an increase in prices and a decrease in the quality of Boeing, and competitors are not asleep.
    3. notingem
      notingem 30 October 2017 22: 06
      +3
      Boeing pays in dollars. Airbus Euro. Those who will develop and that can be rubles. The question is capitalism or what?
      1. notingem
        notingem 30 October 2017 22: 10
        0
        The answer is titanium partners. Currency
      2. Essex62
        Essex62 30 October 2017 22: 23
        +2
        We have <or something>. Stuck in the middle. When those who have had a happy childhood and youth under socialism will die, this muck can be fixed. Although it is unlikely, almost 100 years have been in the genes.
      3. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 30 October 2017 23: 04
        +2
        Quote: notingem
        capitalism or what?

        Bourgeois type: fool
  3. inkass_98
    inkass_98 30 October 2017 16: 09
    +8
    Retaliatory sanctions are appropriate if they do not harm your own economy, and the export of titanium and its products is clearly not the case. As an extreme measure, of course, it will fit, but this has not yet come to this.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 30 October 2017 16: 16
      +2
      Quote: inkass_98
      Retaliatory sanctions are appropriate if they do not harm your own economy, and the export of titanium and its products is clearly not the case.

      That one. There will be no harm to the economy if the Americans pay for the titanium yuan and the euro.
      1. Sharansky
        Sharansky 30 October 2017 17: 28
        +7
        Quote: Amurets
        There will be no harm to the economy if the Americans pay for the titanium yuan and the euro.

        only 20000 Russians will be left without work. Business then.
        1. E_V_N
          E_V_N 31 October 2017 00: 13
          +7
          Quote: Sharansky
          only 20000 Russians will be left without work. Business then.

          20 is the entire staff of the company. For export to the United States it works on the strength of 000 and that is not a fact. Our titanium will be gladly bought by other countries, so do not worry for the people
    2. SMP
      SMP 30 October 2017 17: 29
      +9
      inkass_98 Today, 16:09 PM New
      Retaliatory sanctions are appropriate if they do not harm your own economy, and the export of titanium and its products is clearly not the case. As an extreme measure, of course, it will fit, but this has not yet come to this.


      However, restrictions on the supply of titanium abroad would adversely affect the development of the VSMPO-AVISMA goscorporation, which employs more than 20 thousand people and whose products are widely represented on the world market.


      Now count how many people are employed in the AIRPROM?
      both in the military-industrial complex and in the civilian aircraft industry?


      USA will find a replacement, but taking the opportunity that the Russian Federation imposed sanctions, and the price of titanium for the states will increase because it will turn out to be a monopoly, but it is possible that these 40% will not be able to find for China, too, after Russia may refuse to supply titanium.

      China, like Russia, is interested in selling finished products rather than raw materials, but the cost of Boeing products in the interests of both Russia and China, which is also striving for the civil aviation market,
      and put the bandwagon to the competitor is always welcome.
      Airbases will also be happy, this is the market ........
      1. Antianglosax
        Antianglosax 30 October 2017 19: 53
        28
        In short and to the point:
        1. Yankees are critically dependent on titanium supplies from Russia. China also produces titanium, but mainly finds it in its industry. There is practically no excess! In addition, there are no idiots in China, like ours, to squander resources to the detriment of ourselves. The Yankees simply will not find the right amount (therefore, they have long been making reserves for such a case, however they will not save either). To increase production is also not a quick matter, 5-10 years, depending on the situation.
        2. Titanium itself will come in handy - you need to massively invest in the aircraft industry and apply it massively in domestic production. As long as demand in the domestic market does not increase, titanium can be temporarily stored in the bins of the Motherland by investing in it, and not in anything unsecured greenery.
        It’s really possible to put azoanimals with titanium and space, only the Kremlin partners can do that? In addition, the lion's share of the sale goes directly to the right pockets. Hence these pathetic throwings of our greedy rulers.
        But the economy of our country as a whole refuses to sell titanium, like an elephant grains. All these articles, such as “do no harm”, are the essence of the old liberal song, in which the following verse: why do we need an army and navy ?!
        1. Victor N
          Victor N 31 October 2017 08: 19
          +1
          Domestic demand for titanium is limited and will not grow rapidly - the demand for domestic aircraft is small, people fly a little. Everything is interconnected.....
        2. SMP
          SMP 31 October 2017 11: 22
          0
          It’s really possible to put azoanimals with titanium and space, only the Kremlin partners can do that? In addition, the lion's share of the sale goes directly to the right pockets. Hence these pathetic throwings of our greedy rulers.


          I already wrote on a nearby branch that Putin was sent by a Cossack to a campaign, in Russia only a traitor can introduce a contract Army, depriving the country of a mobilization reserve.
          They are both Masons with Medvedev along the way .. otherwise this will not be explained, you won’t take billions to the grave.
          1. evsyukov_a
            evsyukov_a 29 November 2017 22: 17
            0
            There is a forum nearby "kids mail ru". Not women’s, but women there are 70 percent. Another 29,9 -
            women who have grown sons. Tell the hens about the "mobilization reserve" ... I'll send you a wreath ...
        3. evsyukov_a
          evsyukov_a 28 November 2017 21: 26
          0
          Bravo! And I’m still waiting if any of the supporters of “make bucks” remember that titanium is a strategic raw material. And his reserves are finite. It seems that the Chinese understand this - especially considering the pace of economic development. It is unlikely that they will rush to occupy the vacated "holy place" and change what they themselves need for candy wrappers, from which America, by the way, can always refuse. Respect to you, a vivid example of state thinking!
      2. kuz363
        kuz363 30 October 2017 21: 02
        11
        China will gladly supply its titanium, do not even hesitate. Will expand production and forward. Even the products will be delivered and the USA will provide them with documentation. And the cost of Boeing products will be paid by Russia and other countries when buying their aircraft.
    3. olegkrava
      olegkrava 30 October 2017 19: 27
      +4
      It is necessary to close the ISS American modules, tear off the mattresses from the walls, remove the pads from the American cabinets at the station, close the toilet and stop carrying them on our ships. The effect of an exploded toilet in Hurricane Elminho.
      1. kuz363
        kuz363 30 October 2017 21: 04
        +3
        It is enough to do with a minimum - close the toilet. To say that the spare parts are over. And let them into your toilet at a speculative price. And prepaid required. And then you never know what - they will do their job and refuse to pay.
    4. Mikhail Zubkov
      Mikhail Zubkov 30 October 2017 19: 48
      10
      A TITANIUM ban on exports to the United States and NATO member countries of Russian STRATEGIC raw materials and materials is needed - it is they who ALREADY created the pre-war situation in Europe, Asia and the world as a whole. They are preparing an attack on Russia - and we continue to supply them with "titanium hire" and other important things for the military-industrial complex! This must be stopped - and at the same time, ALL control packages in such strategic sectors should be returned. We cut off their exports - we will return these industries to the people! And we will cheapen the products of our defense industry.
      1. Suhow
        Suhow 3 November 2017 00: 55
        0
        although I’m not from the Russian Federation, I fully support the return of controlling interest, but part of the proceeds from the sale to partners of the funds is to be directed to the needs of the military-industrial complex and defense.
    5. kiril-belo
      kiril-belo 30 October 2017 19: 59
      +9
      The trick is that VSMPO entered the world market for a very long time and hard thanks to V.V. Tetyukhin For a long time, she worked at a loss, very much changed the consciousness of workers inside the enterprise, until 2008 she successfully resisted raider seizures both from the gangster structures and from the state. And so it began in 2008. First, the honored director was removed, then they began to change work inside, fighting not so much for improving quality as for pseudo cleanliness and order. And now comes the next round of ravings. I understand when unscrupulous companies are strangling, but VSMPO ??? One of the few Russian companies with a worldwide reputation, which is largely a world monopolist. Yes, in the case of the imposition of sanctions on our part, the Americans will find new suppliers within a year, and the rest of the world companies will follow them, and we will bend, thousands of people will be left without work, new territories will become depressed. We do not need such a government. it’s time for us who is beyond the Volga to separate from Moscow, let them feed on asphalt.
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 07
        13
        Your words really amuse me. Let's see: 60% of titanium for Boeing is how much and who supplies the remaining 40? and this "someone" will be able to build up production to close our supplies, for Titanium is neither iron nor aluminum, it is not so much on earth. good Now for the losses of "Avisma" - they already wrote to you that the Russian Government can launch the program "purchase of titanium for the state reserve" as you would not believe - it was in the USSR! good Moreover, “sitting” in the American market is not good and reliable, the only reliable location for the products is the Internal Market, and this is precisely what needs to be developed. To your possible phrase “when will it be yet”, the answer is “procurement of strategic raw materials to the state reserve”!
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 10
          +9
          Quote: Mih1974
          The domestic market, that’s what it needs to be developed

          Namely, the Russian company helps all Boeings to squeeze Russian planes from the Russian market, and these are not the miserable pennies that Russia receives for parts made of titanium.
        2. Ded-v-kaske
          Ded-v-kaske 31 October 2017 08: 04
          +2
          But the government is in no hurry to make "purchases of strategic raw materials to the state reserve." For many years, AVISMA actually works for the western "uncle", because titanium is not particularly needed for the homeland. But we run ahead of the rest to invest in the American economy by buying bonds of this country.
        3. kiril-belo
          kiril-belo 7 November 2017 18: 35
          0
          Only an unprepared and incompetent person can reason like this. As I said above, VSMPO entered the international market for a very long time and painfully. His portfolio of orders is far from just Boeing and Airbus. It’s just that Boeing implemented and are implementing joint programs to build the latest high-tech industries, with our scientific base. Not only our workers, but also engineers work at these plants. Not only the Chinese are capable of replenishing VSMPO products on the world market, but to a greater extent the North Americans (Canadians) and Europeans. But you forget one important thing. Competing with America in the quantity and quality of sanctions, we do not look at China at all. Meanwhile, only with VSMPO our highly qualified engineers leave there for the production and development of the titanium industry, there are simply no analogues and replacements at this time! And these are not just facts. Unique production requires a unique approach and the same unique people. But no one in the age of capitalism wants to work for an uncle under the guise of reasoning about patriotism. Therefore, scientists and engineers begin to change the country of residence, because remuneration is much higher in China. Our managers are still confident that a person should work for a piece of bread with butter and patriotism, but this is not so. And if they impose an embargo on VSMPO, the remaining engineers from less or less sophisticated will leave for China and America, and we will have left or completely unintelligent cranks that are not needed anywhere, or pensioners. And nobody will buy such volumes of titanium to the state reserve. There will be a drop in living standards in a particular area, and the collapse of a unique production. Until a civilian aircraft industry has been created in Russia and there are no sales markets for its products, an embargo cannot be imposed, otherwise the death of the industry.
        4. evsyukov_a
          evsyukov_a 28 November 2017 21: 42
          0
          I agree! This argument is akin to calls to invest our money in US securities - that is, in their economy. Instead of developing your own. By the way, it’s far from the fact that we can get them back ... They don’t talk about it in the news, but titanium is also an indispensable metal for modern military aircraft such as the Boeing F / A-18 Super Hornet. The titanium you need to purchase for a single F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is 30,000 pounds, or 15 tons. It is very similar to the joke about the sale of a pistol, with which you are robbed ...
      2. Victor N
        Victor N 31 October 2017 08: 24
        +2
        To separate It’s easier to restore order in Moscow.
      3. Zheleznostop
        Zheleznostop 31 October 2017 10: 25
        +2
        Tatar Stoll? Separate, he was going to;))
      4. Suhow
        Suhow 3 November 2017 00: 58
        0
        separation is a call for separatism. But to force the government to serve the people is serious. It’s a pity that in Ukraine this is not done, the Wall doesn’t cry for power, WEEP.
      5. serge siberian
        serge siberian 5 November 2017 14: 54
        0
        Please read carefully how many countries there are titanium producers. TWO !! Russia and China. China is barely for themselves. They will buy through Belarus, they will be happy there. And how much money has been invested in VSMPO by taxpayers of our country?
    6. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 30 October 2017 23: 12
      +6
      Quote: inkass_98
      Retaliatory sanctions are appropriate if they do not harm your own economy,

      Oh yes, yes obhss! Business is holy! Yes, let them humiliate, let "piss in the eyes" (!) .... in the end, the money does not smell!
      1. Sargas
        Sargas 2 November 2017 03: 36
        +1
        In protest - quit your job. After all, your office ultimately also invests in US government bonds.
  4. Radikal
    Radikal 30 October 2017 16: 23
    +6
    The Federation Council "generally" supports the bill ... However, restrictions on the supply of titanium abroad would adversely affect the development of the VSMPO-AVISMA goscorporation, which employs more than 20 thousand people and whose products are widely represented on the world market
    And for this there are as many as two ministries: the Ministry of Economic Development, and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, which are obliged to deal with such issues, and not only receive "golden parachutes"!sad
  5. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 30 October 2017 16: 26
    26
    Palladium must be arrested! Russia will not suffer at all. Buy all Norilsk Nickel mining and put it into the Gokhran, since it is a precious metal - as is now done with gold.

    Arrange for the Jankers in 2001, when the price soared 10 times! Or let platinum catalysts do. am

    Moreover, the totalitarian Stalin built the Nornickel and there was nothing for any Democrats to open a mouth on it. laughing
    1. Awaz
      Awaz 30 October 2017 19: 18
      +9
      this is a good idea .. I once read about how Stalin personally forced some precious metals, including palladium, to issue information to the world market in such a way that it would stimulate the highest possible price on the market and sell at maximum values. However, now this is not a big deal, everyone is controlled by swindlers and speculators.
      And so, a good option is to reduce sales on the foreign market and save, and the difference can be repelled by a high price
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 08
        +3
        Even as all this is possible, the only thing is - in the "Faberge" of the Russian leadership.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 30 October 2017 23: 19
        +4
        Quote: AwaZ
        all are controlled by swindlers and speculators.

        Duc ... "market economy"! This is not a trifle for you under socialism!
  6. iouris
    iouris 30 October 2017 16: 40
    +1
    This cannot be, because it can never be.
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 30 October 2017 16: 43
    +4
    That's bullshit. We do not need so much titanium, and 70-80% goes to Boeing and Airbus. What will we feed people later.?
    1. alma
      alma 30 October 2017 16: 49
      +5
      Boats made of titanium
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 30 October 2017 16: 55
        +3
        They are already built from titanium 5x5 rolled metal. Our manufacturers do not save on themselves. And the expensive 5 coordinate machine for the production of parts for aircraft will stand idle ...
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 12
          +8
          Have you read the article? Of the 300 camps that buy titanium - throw ONE (Boeing) why would the machines stand idle? And you need to develop your aviation, invest in it, different preferences and leasing centers (for those who cannot immediately pay the full amount for our plane). good And to sit on the buttocks evenly and rejoice that we are selling a resource which is generally not so much - idiocy !! This oil or gas is increasingly found or replaced by lipestrism, but there is very little titanium, and in Russia in general it seems to be one deposit.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 1 November 2017 08: 20
            +1
            In 100% of civilian planes in the world 60% Boeing 30% airbus and 10% everything else ....
      2. Strashila
        Strashila 30 October 2017 17: 25
        +2
        Yeah ... and how to make shovels in the 90s, so that the Chinese would buy and export, as then.
        1. Awaz
          Awaz 30 October 2017 19: 12
          +3
          my house scrap was titanium))) a useless thing like that, but to whom it was shown - they were surprised at how light
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 30 October 2017 23: 28
            +2
            Quote: AwaZ
            my house scrap was titanium))) a useless thing like that, but to whom it was shown - they were surprised at how light

            Here you have no entrepreneurial vein! How useless when everyone was surprised ?! For the money had to show! fellow
            1. kiril-belo
              kiril-belo 7 November 2017 18: 39
              0
              very convenient thing, as well as erection, shovels, body armor
      3. Evil Elf
        Evil Elf 30 October 2017 20: 04
        +3
        Already made basins in the 90s. Radio amateurs then used them on satellite dishes
      4. kuz363
        kuz363 30 October 2017 21: 08
        0
        They drown from titanium. "Kursk" for example
        1. alma
          alma 31 October 2017 07: 47
          +2
          I’ll tell you a secret: if damaged, they drown from anything.
      5. Suhow
        Suhow 3 November 2017 01: 05
        +1
        HOW REMEMBER THE TITANIUM Komsomolets is still not surpassed. And to get it at max depth was not easy
    2. Gormenghast
      Gormenghast 31 October 2017 06: 05
      0
      To do shovels from titanium, as at the great conversologist Gorbachev! laughing am
      1. kiril-belo
        kiril-belo 7 November 2017 18: 40
        0
        Yeltsin, the peak of the production of these products.
    3. evsyukov_a
      evsyukov_a 28 November 2017 22: 01
      0
      And how much% goes to the needs of the US Air Force, I think you also know?
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 29 November 2017 21: 22
        0
        We are not allowed to the defense yet.
  8. mi ah
    mi ah 30 October 2017 17: 03
    +8
    Yes, you just need to get out of the dollar environment, as if it were not difficult and careless, and let them pay us for our goods in rubles
    1. Sharansky
      Sharansky 30 October 2017 17: 29
      +2
      Quote: Mih-ai
      and let us pay for our goods in rubles

      can you give an example of such products?
      1. Andrey1961
        Andrey1961 30 October 2017 19: 58
        +3
        The beginning has been made, these are the calculations for the service in the ports!
        So gradually translate and trade, buy rubles and pay it is not oil and gas on the exchange!
        1. Sharansky
          Sharansky 30 October 2017 20: 06
          +1
          Services are not goods. You take away the topic.
          1. Nikolai Grek
            Nikolai Grek 30 October 2017 21: 36
            +6
            Quote: Sharansky
            Services are not goods. You take away the topic.

            what what why then, when calculating GDP, do services take into account ??? fool fool wassat laughing
            1. Sharansky
              Sharansky 30 October 2017 21: 38
              +2
              Then something both is a product. But to close the valve on the pipe is not a commodity. And the conversation here was specifically about goods, if you did not bother to read the thread.
              1. Nikolai Grek
                Nikolai Grek 31 October 2017 01: 54
                +7
                Quote: Sharansky
                Then something both is a product. But to close the valve on the pipe is not a commodity. And the conversation here was specifically about goods, if you did not bother to read the thread.

                ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... already ... wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing finally, it’s not about ventilation that answered you if you didn’t bother to read the thread !! laughing laughing laughing
      2. kiril-belo
        kiril-belo 30 October 2017 20: 01
        +1
        at least for the same titanium
      3. Evil Elf
        Evil Elf 30 October 2017 20: 06
        +1
        Full of goods. Ultra-pure rubies for high-power gas lasers I just remembered offhand
      4. Mih1974
        Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 13
        +2
        Agricultural products, which in 2017 exceeded the volume of weapons. tongue
        1. Sharansky
          Sharansky 30 October 2017 21: 16
          +2
          Chtoli feed grain?
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 19
            +5
            Bucks for them "feed" or "like everyone else" paid? tongue Yes, even let them pay for sawdust or uranium by the way - here it’s for sure “not fodder” and no one can replace us (physically there are no capacities).
            1. Sharansky
              Sharansky 30 October 2017 21: 30
              +2
              Quote: Mih1974
              Bucks for them "feed" or "like everyone else" paid?

              So bucks are candy wrappers, sell for rubles try to get started. The question is just what you will do with rubles, if you buy everything you need for those very dollars.
              Quote: Mih1974
              nobody can replace us (physically there are no capacities).

              The capacity in the world is now physically abundant. Therefore, replace the entry. Most likely they will pay a little more of course. In the world, labor is almost everywhere more expensive than ours.
              1. Mih1974
                Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 38
                +7
                And here is the faloss tongue , smart people have repeatedly talked about "conspiracy theories" of Germany’s sudden love of green technology and the abandonment of nuclear power plants. Also, “suddenly” the japs ​​almost “became convinced” of the closure of the nuclear power plant, but didn’t do it - too many capacities will drop out (almost in the Stone Age they will collapse). Just the lack of capacities for producing "fuel uranium" and made merikasov conclude an agreement with us. Well, there is no enrichment capacity in the world, moreover, China has plans to build 200 reactors, and enrichment is still in the "Stone Age", only 5 generation centrifuges (we have NINTH bully ) At the same time, RosAtom has 36 reactor contracts (in the world), which are also essentially “purchased” enrichment capacities. And after the end of the HEU-LEU agreement, the mattresses were fully operational, they closed their last enrichment plant. Once again the LAST factory they closed !! fool They have a "small candlestick built by Europeans, but the mattresses have the most reactors (peace) in the world and they also have an army, many atomic submarines and 10 aviks. So don’t tell us fairy tales - they’ll buy from others, nobody has it buy.
                1. Sharansky
                  Sharansky 30 October 2017 22: 17
                  +1
                  Yeah, and the Urenco factory must have licked a cow with its tongue)
                  1. Mih1974
                    Mih1974 30 October 2017 22: 19
                    +1
                    Do you mean black in Russian or do you need to translate or larger letters?
                    They have a "small candlestick built by Europeans You can chew or you can realize that this is it?
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 30 October 2017 22: 25
                      +8
                      Quote: Mih1974
                      Europeans

                      Well then, "Europeans" or something laughing
                      1. Mih1974
                        Mih1974 30 October 2017 22: 29
                        +1
                        laughing You know, this “candle factory” has one small flaw - well, you know that America knew how to make nuclear weapons (?), And they make it from enriched “miscellaneous” so that Americans closed all their capacities because Uranco didn’t enriches to a military percentage (here stsuki). And even though you do what to do with it - they flatly refuse, but it seems they never knew how. So what mm "pisyunom" and from what the Americans will make nuclear bombs - only Allah knows. laughing repeat
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Mih1974
                        Mih1974 30 October 2017 22: 54
                        +1
                        But in different ways tongue and this question you are addressing to the “Clinton family”, it is they - “convinced” us to sell the “uranium namba Odyn” tongue
                        And enrichment - laughing laughing crying laughing laughing , yes you at least open the "wiki". There are also black in Russian and even numbers. bully
                    3. Sharansky
                      Sharansky 30 October 2017 22: 56
                      0
                      Sorry, I’m not competent to continue talking with the phallus specialist. Not from your environment.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 30 October 2017 23: 35
                        +2
                        Quote: Sharansky
                        Sorry, I’m not competent to continue talking with the phallus specialist. Not from your environment.

                        Do you not like women?
                2. Babalaykin
                  Babalaykin 31 October 2017 19: 12
                  0
                  We should also mention the agreement on the use of weapons-grade plutonium in MOX fuel, the Europeans harnessed themselves to help the Americans, but so far they have not taken off, although they initially thought that Russia would not master this technology. Putin recently suspended a plutonium reprocessing program; Americans want to bury plutonium; TVELs cannot.
      5. serge siberian
        serge siberian 5 November 2017 15: 11
        0
        It would be a zeal. But they just don’t want to jump from this needle. The President didn’t finish the ports, start working this year for rubles.
  9. unignm
    unignm 30 October 2017 17: 08
    +2
    Well, leave the market will be replaced by the Chinese. in a state fool finally can not trick a chip? as if we are the only ones who have titanium.
    1. Fox
      Fox 30 October 2017 17: 20
      +2
      Quote: unignm
      Well, leave the market will be replaced by the Chinese.

      do not replace. the store ceases the products of the first second-sell redistribution-only READY-made products.
      1. Sharansky
        Sharansky 30 October 2017 17: 32
        +3
        If there is demand, there will be supply. But there is nothing to lose market share.
      2. Evil Elf
        Evil Elf 30 October 2017 20: 07
        0
        I only know about the ban on the export of rare earth metals for electronics
        1. A_L_F
          A_L_F 30 October 2017 22: 03
          0
          Titanium is just a rare earth material
          1. forty-eighth
            forty-eighth 31 October 2017 10: 29
            +1
            No, as far as I know. Titanium is a metal, not a rare earth element.
  10. Strashila
    Strashila 30 October 2017 17: 23
    +2
    Titanium ... titanium ... and close the gas valve weakly ... ??? especially that winter is on the verge. This is of course a joke ... humor ... to the evil mom does not need to freeze his ears.
    1. bandabas
      bandabas 30 October 2017 18: 47
      0
      Well, the tomatoes have already returned.
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek 30 October 2017 21: 37
        +5
        Quote: bandabas
        Well, the tomatoes have already returned.

        and before their return, Erdogas took such a sip with his country that you would not envy ... and rightly so !!! wassat wassat laughing laughing good good good
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 14
      0
      Quote: Strashila
      and shut off the gas valve weakly ... ???

      They will simply take offense for titanium, and war will begin for gas - the Third World War.
  11. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 30 October 2017 17: 30
    0
    At the "request of the workers", of course, they will not cut anything. Well, at the urgent request of the "partners" too.
  12. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 30 October 2017 18: 30
    +9
    The current government does not have “arguments against Kolka Saprykin” and we are already being prepared for this. And if we had our own developed aviation and other industries, we could use titanium for ourselves, and sell planes and other high-tech products. But alas, the comprador oligarchic power is capable of trading only minerals, everything else is beyond its power.
    1. Andrey1961
      Andrey1961 30 October 2017 19: 51
      +1
      Russia, and stop servicing the purchased aircraft aircraft which replaced the aircraft of their own production, destroying their own aircraft industry by our figures !!!
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 15
        +1
        And why did you decide that they would not ban it anyway? Or did you, as sulYuvanov, “believe” - that the Americans will NEVER arrest our dollars invested in their debts? Nude nude, tell it to the Iranians, Libyans, etc.
    2. Evil Elf
      Evil Elf 30 October 2017 20: 11
      0
      For your planes, you need to make engines, and most importantly avionics, and with this we are a little taut. Only recently they switched to digital control, otherwise everything was analog
    3. kiril-belo
      kiril-belo 7 November 2017 18: 43
      0
      I completely agree, wrote about this above. Before banning, it is necessary to create a similar production, to conquer part of the market, and to produce and sell with God's help.
  13. bandabas
    bandabas 30 October 2017 18: 44
    +7
    Blah blah blah. Money doesn't smell. Only, periodically and constantly, we begin to fold into operations for children. With, like, insurance medicine. Shame.
  14. ANDRE - LATVIA
    ANDRE - LATVIA 30 October 2017 18: 51
    +5
    Consider longer, guys, longer ... So that you can make “import substitution”, as it is fashionable in Russia. While you decide whether to hold the titan or not, they will find a replacement, a holy place does not happen empty. Such things are done all of a sudden - today they decided, tomorrow you shish, not titanium. Only then will it be concrete
    1. traktir64
      traktir64 30 October 2017 19: 05
      0
      Yes, that they can without Volodya, work
    2. Mih1974
      Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 17
      +4
      Yes, yes, the Japonians also thought so when they were rude to China, and then the Chinese introduced an embargo on the supply of rare earths to Japia, they went out to the feces just once, and crawled to China for mercy. And what is “funny” is that for some reason no other suppliers appeared from anywhere. tongue
  15. Fedya2017
    Fedya2017 30 October 2017 18: 57
    +4
    Our elites will refuse the dollars that Americans pay them for titanium and much more ?! Haha three times! ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 19
      0
      Quote: Fedya2017
      Our elites will refuse the dollars that Americans pay them for titanium and much more ?! Haha three times! ...

      For our elite, these are tears.
  16. traktir64
    traktir64 30 October 2017 19: 00
    +3
    The Federation Council "in general" supports ........
    -------------------------------------------------
    Pouted, pouted ...... still a bit, made the dragon's face ...
    .Do not fart.
  17. Serhiodjan
    Serhiodjan 30 October 2017 19: 11
    +1
    I am sure that it is not necessary to ban the export of titanium ... frostbite our ears! On the contrary, it is necessary to increase the export of all possible products, and with this we will give the best answer to the sanctions!
    You can try to introduce a ban on the sale of raw titanium in the United States, but leave the opportunity to sell semi-finished products and finished products
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 21
      0
      Quote: Serhiodjan
      You can try to introduce a ban on the sale of raw titanium in the United States

      And you google how much titanium Russia produces.
    2. serge siberian
      serge siberian 5 November 2017 15: 17
      0
      If you leave ONLY finished products. I think it will be so good.
  18. nrex
    nrex 30 October 2017 19: 16
    +2
    Why impose sanctions at all? It is necessary to raise export duties. Let them fill our budget.
    1. Mikhail Zubkov
      Mikhail Zubkov 30 October 2017 19: 59
      +1
      A TITANIUM ban on exports to the United States and NATO member countries of Russian STRATEGIC raw materials and materials is needed - it is they who ALREADY created the pre-war situation in Europe, Asia and the world as a whole. They are preparing an attack on Russia - and we continue to supply them with "titanium hire" and other important things for the military-industrial complex! This must be stopped - and at the same time, ALL control packages in such strategic sectors should be returned. We cut off their exports - we will return these industries to the people! And we will cheapen the products of our defense industry.
  19. seal78
    seal78 30 October 2017 19: 32
    +3
    Or are there so many industries in Russia that keep up with the times and supply more and more products to the world market?

    Is raw material export now called keeping up with the times?
  20. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 30 October 2017 19: 34
    0
    QED request
    It remains only to “preoccupations” and “disappointments” to come up with abrupt adjectives in order to show the full force of retaliatory measures fellow The "deepest" no longer roll - the strength of the answer is not the same. Great and powerful to help - you have to answer sanctions wassat
  21. seal78
    seal78 30 October 2017 19: 36
    +2
    The development of one's own country should be much higher priority than the delivery of something to the "world market". In this we must take an example from China. He first developed himself, and then he began to export goods (not raw materials!) Around the world.
  22. Whaler
    Whaler 30 October 2017 19: 37
    +1
    It is advisable to do this when we can load Nizhny Salda with our orders at 100%, then this will undoubtedly be a trump card both in terms of the competitive advantage of our aircraft industry and in the political plan .... all tests of airborne missiles with PD will pass, we’ll build another couple - the top three factories for their production, then perhaps that’s possible .... but for now, you need to work your teeth together ... while it’s possible
  23. Whaler
    Whaler 30 October 2017 19: 39
    +2
    Quote: seal78
    Or are there so many industries in Russia that keep up with the times and supply more and more products to the world market?

    Is raw material export now called keeping up with the times?

    What kind of raw material - titanium? )) LOL .... google the product range of VSMPO
    1. seal78
      seal78 30 October 2017 19: 48
      0
      Yes, it’s titanium. No matter how google, but he is the raw material.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 24
        +3
        Quote: seal78
        Yes, it’s titanium. No matter how google, but he is the raw material.

        Russia's share in the global production of titanium concentrates is 0,6%.
        Russia does not export titanium, but exports titanium parts for the aviation industry.
        That is, in this case, it is not Russian titanium that is in demand, but Russian production technologies.
  24. Andrey1961
    Andrey1961 30 October 2017 19: 44
    +2
    The state corporation currently has over 20.000 employees.

    It will seem inconspicuous if, in contrast to us, we stop supplying components and assemblies for the Russian fleet, and stop servicing aircraft with which we replaced our own production aircraft, practically destroying our own aircraft industry with our figures !!!
    By deliberately ditching its industry, the country is forced to buy a lot of what they themselves produced and were exporters in such areas as machine tool construction and development, and much more!
    1. kuz363
      kuz363 30 October 2017 21: 12
      0
      And even they can forbid Russian Boeings to fly abroad due to lack of maintenance, prevention and repair! Abandoned airports and all. The vacuum will be filled with flights of their companies.
    2. Mih1974
      Mih1974 30 October 2017 21: 22
      +1
      And who told you that “tomorrow” they will not impose sanctions on the ban on servicing aviation, how do you scare? For such "smart people" like you - today there are no US restrictions on restricting Russia. The USA can limit Russia - in ANY field in which we "cooperate" with them and the longer we do not react, the more restrictions they will "impose" on us. Think with your head and do not expect "mercy from the coves."
  25. akm8226
    akm8226 30 October 2017 20: 02
    0
    Grabin - do you know who this is? - in the book “Victory Arms” there is a description of one meeting with Stalin on the adoption of a new gun with excellent characteristics. The chief designer, reporting on the merits of his brainchild, did not forget to mention the technological innovation used in the manufacturing process - welding. This caused a revival at the meeting - welding was then a rarity. Stalin asked, they say, where did you get the equipment for welding? The designer replied that they had been purchased in France. To which Stalin said:
    - A weapon for which it is necessary to purchase equipment abroad, our army does not need.
    And closed the meeting.
    1. VVK_VDB
      VVK_VDB 30 October 2017 20: 51
      +5
      More like a bike. In 39, an economic treaty was concluded with Germany. Under this agreement, we were supplied with a lot of equipment, including for defense. One story (or bike ??) from those times. We bought equipment for the production of trunks, such as a drawing mill, and asked the Germans - how many passes do the trunk make? The Germans answered - for one, but did not give the technology. Installed at home, experiencing two, three passes, no less. They try so, that way .- But in one pass it does not work. How is it that the Germans succeed, we don’t? Do not quit. And in a year and a half or two it turned out! Joy, pride. And after the war they learn that the Germans didn’t plan in one pass - such a joke was from the Germans.
      1. akm8226
        akm8226 30 October 2017 21: 55
        0
        No tales. Read: http: //modernlib.ru/books/grabin_vasiliy/
        oruzhie_pobedi / read
      2. Sverdlov
        Sverdlov 31 October 2017 18: 34
        0
        Cutting the barrel in one pass is IMPOSSIBLE! I’m telling you as a metal cutting technologist. This time.
        And no need - these are two ...
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 31 October 2017 23: 06
          0
          At the machining center, the trunk can be made - the grooves are already on the other, and in the end the chrome channel is chromed.
          1. CooL_SnipeR
            CooL_SnipeR 1 November 2017 19: 19
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            At the machining center, the trunk can be made

            Quality trunks - no. Dorning allows you to make massive trunks, as well as rotational forging. Significant metal stresses are present. Match and sniper trunks are made by classic cutting from 20 to 100 passes on CNC. The more passes, the higher the accuracy and cost of the machine - its price increases thousands of times
  26. ARES623
    ARES623 30 October 2017 20: 07
    0
    Titanium revenge must be shown when sanctions affect the escort of aircraft sold to us. Until then, you can cut off diplomatic missions, limit their movement and contacts in Russia, reduce the ability of the media, etc. That is, to suppress their propaganda and other organs of influence. You can, in the end, dramatically drop their securities on the market and start gas trading for the euro.
  27. Alex K
    Alex K 30 October 2017 20: 13
    0
    why not ban: windows, office and ipl, facebook and tweeter ????
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 30 October 2017 22: 27
      0
      Quote: Alex K
      why not ban: windows, office and ipl, facebook and tweeter ????

      Probably because they were created by Russian programmers?
      1. CooL_SnipeR
        CooL_SnipeR 1 November 2017 19: 26
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        Quote: Alex K
        why not ban: windows, office and ipl, facebook and tweeter ????

        Probably because they were created by Russian programmers?

        Yes, "stupid" Indians did them, especially excel ... I want to spew liquids from BASIC and Excel. The only Indian I remember is Chandrasekar. He is EMNIP one of the first who calculated the consequences of SRT (there is Oppenheimer, Volkov, etc.)
    2. Essex62
      Essex62 30 October 2017 22: 46
      0
      That would be great. Information hunger and tightening of nuts and the country is working again and not at nightclubs.
  28. Sergey Zvontsov
    Sergey Zvontsov 30 October 2017 20: 19
    +1
    I happened 18 years working ON WHEELS FACTORY light alloys Moscow considers necessary and indispensable DISCONTINUE FULLY titanium supplies to US IT WILL answer their SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA IS ENOUGH WITH THEM ceremony and WHAT TO NEGOTIATE THEY our potential enemies and friends NEVER BEEN AND WILL NOT WILL BE ENOUGH TO WATCH THE WEST IN THE MOUTH AND TO BELIEVE THEIR ASSURANCE OF THE WORLD RUSSIA IS ENVIRONED WITH THE FULLY MILITARY BASES OF THE USA AND THEIR ALLIES THE STATE DUMA REMAINS THE STATE OF THE DEATURE TURNS OF STEES AND TURN BURNER IS STILLING TURNING AND STILLING TURNING TO STOP.
    1. kuz363
      kuz363 30 October 2017 21: 14
      +1
      You propose to leave the former comrades without work: And I suppose he himself is retired?
    2. CooL_SnipeR
      CooL_SnipeR 1 November 2017 19: 54
      0
      2Sergey Zvontsov
      Caps write a sign of bad tone and is recognized as obscene on most sites, regardless of position and semantic load
  29. Des10
    Des10 30 October 2017 20: 23
    0
    That is - to answer --- there is nothing.
  30. Alex K
    Alex K 30 October 2017 20: 24
    +2
    Half of the finished products from titanium "VSMPO-AVISMA" is used in the aerospace or defense industry in the form of alloys, where individual extremely stringent requirements are provided that are not comparable with the exchange unification. For other consumers, rolling, stamping and products from titanium and its alloys due to their relatively high (compared to stainless steel) prices are made for certain projects and are not universal. Finally, a titanium sponge is also ordered mainly for individual projects under long-term contracts with a specific consumer. Prices for it are closed, they are significantly higher than spot prices.

    The profitability of the titanium business is now about 20%. This is not much, because this business is very expensive from an investment point of view. Almost all the profits of the enterprise are spent on technical re-equipment, equipment - machine tools, furnaces, etc. - terribly expensive.
    1. serge siberian
      serge siberian 5 November 2017 15: 32
      0
      And what, colleague, is 20% already miserable NOT profitable? And how much do you think should be profitability?
  31. Alex K
    Alex K 30 October 2017 20: 24
    +1
    The most dangerous for the VSMPO-Boeing bunch is the deterioration of relations between Russia and the United States. Not so long ago, both companies received a clear reminder of this when the US State Department imposed sanctions against Rostekhnologii and the Sukhoi Holding Company, prohibiting private American companies from supplying dual-use products to them. True, according to the assurances of Boeing representatives, the American government does not intend to encroach on numerous projects of the company with the two Russian organizations and VSMPO - it is understandable, in this case the United States will suffer more. Indeed, while the partnership with VSMPO-AVISMA for Boeing, according to expert estimates, means saving $ 200 million a year. How long will this state of affairs last?
  32. Mih1974
    Mih1974 30 October 2017 20: 37
    +3
    Listen, even the article shows that the introduction of a ban on the supply of titanium in the United States will not lead to ruin or a drastic reduction, because there is also a "watermelon" and 299 companies! good And many times already I wrote - you can start "strategic procurement in state reserves." That is, I want to remind such a clever idea as - in the USSR there was no titanium export at all (it was considered a strategic resource), from the word - Absolutely! Here are the same bucks from “treasure” to take out lards 10-30 and buy up “excess” titanium on them and bury them “vertically in sand” (so as not to burn out). So in the USSR they could afford 500 tons of highly enriched uranium to have (and this is monstrous money), which really is Russia not able to buy all the titanium that Boeing bought? Come on, it definitely can, moreover - then it will be possible to put this titanium into manufacturing weapons (for our Army) or sell it if prices soar! Something I did not hear that in America at least one company would go bankrupt from the ban on the supply of equipment (oil industry, shelf) to Russia, why would our Avisma go bankrupt? Yes, even in the courts, the Americans will not be able to drag her in - 100% force majeure. tongue
    1. Timx
      Timx 31 October 2017 02: 13
      +2
      Does the name Ural Boeing Manufacturing in Upper Salda tell you anything?
      It is sharpened for the production of finished parts for Boeing, according to their specifications, it has passed a long and very expensive certification process according to their corporate standards. How do you imagine the rapid replacement of these orders with work for other aircraft manufacturers?
      And about the so-called. "strategic reserve" - ​​do you propose to store chassis racks or frames for the B-777 or B-787 as works of art? There, the main added value is created specifically for the production of forgings and their machining, since they generally import raw materials to a large extent (including from the Donbass).
    2. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 31 October 2017 07: 56
      0
      Russia can do it! But private business is not! Do not confuse private wool with state! When the state leaves planning and regulation, there will always be such perturbations. Private business is a priori sharpened for profit here and now! And neoliberal capitalism, coupled with the oligarchy, which rules in our country, and even more so!
    3. serge siberian
      serge siberian 5 November 2017 15: 43
      0
      The Ministry of Finance is selling dollars with one hand, and is buying them now with the other. Let the titan buy them, instead of paper it’s dirty green.
  33. bmv04636
    bmv04636 30 October 2017 20: 50
    +1
    Few people know that Russia is the main and main supplier of palladium. This is only one metal, which is now trading at four times the price of gold, the absence of which in Europe can completely stop the automotive industry. The fact is that palladium is used in the manufacture of oil filters for cars and even now, despite the fact that Russia continues to fulfill its obligations to supply this metal, there is a shortage of several tons of this metal in the world.
    oh no current titanium however
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 31 October 2017 23: 11
      0
      It is necessary to establish production of Beryllium, Scandium and Iridium, in the automotive industry, aviation, instrument making, and the nuclear industry are very in demand.
  34. Const
    Const 30 October 2017 20: 58
    +1
    The duty on products for mattress-striped owners should be increased by a factor of 20. Let them do the filling of the budget.
  35. Svarozhich
    Svarozhich 30 October 2017 21: 06
    +1
    If, however, it had reached our strategists that it is possible to import only what is not produced in our country, if we had not recognized China as a metropolis dictating which industry should live (for now) in Russia, and which could be covered by killing duty free, without the cost of delivering goods from China using the Russian Post - we would have solved most of the export problems due to domestic demand, but for now our way into the tunnel, and not from it.
  36. NEMES
    NEMES 30 October 2017 22: 21
    +1
    Can anyone explain how it is possible to inflict a trade blow on the USA by restricting the access of own products to the market? In my opinion, the essence of any trade war is the restriction of access to its market of imported goods, additional protection of their own manufacturers. So let's think better what of the American can be limited. Previously, for example, “Bush’s legs”, now you can limit the products that are licensed by US companies ... you can certainly shy away from fast foods and Coca-Cola. In any case, I would suggest simply introducing additional duties on both titanium export and import, and justify the fees from them as losses of our economy from sanctions ... No need to copy them! For in this case we will never be the first ... electronics, cars - everything that has an American origin - an additional duty of 20-30 percent. This will be a worthy answer! And to turn off the fact that even the Americans did not turn off, coming up with sanctions is not necessary!
    1. andrej-shironov
      andrej-shironov 31 October 2017 07: 59
      0
      There is one suggestion! 1. It is merciless to crush NGOs with foreign financing. 2. Withdraw money from treasuries. 3. Develop your industry with the money withdrawn from treasure.
  37. nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 October 2017 22: 27
    +1
    Quote: Evil Elf
    For your planes, you need to make engines, and most importantly avionics, and with this we are a little taut. Only recently they switched to digital control, otherwise everything was analog

    Despite the fact that we switched to digital control, this control has one drawback, it is easier to undergo cyber attacks. I believe that to start digital control, you need a key on an analog system.
  38. nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 October 2017 22: 34
    +1
    With the money earned for titanium, the Americans could build a Boeing plant and even with technology.
    African countries junk.
  39. Sergey-8848
    Sergey-8848 30 October 2017 23: 22
    +2
    Six months to sell nothing. No sanctions. Fold into a nook. The salary of the entire complex is due to the sold eighteenth yacht and a fifth of the fur store. With a real desire to help the country !!! - this is done elementarily. And then peacefully wait for “partners” with proposals for life at the button at the UN (if you really want to, at the Mausoleum).
  40. Antor
    Antor 31 October 2017 00: 57
    0
    Judging by the fact that all the increasing rudeness, arrogance and sanctions of Amers in relation to Russia, there are some caveats, such as responding with mirror measures, which are still available, it will all be one zilch ..! ?? It seems that we do not have these reciprocal mirror measures to sober up the adversaries and this is very sad. Whatever we forbid in trade with the USA, alas, we lose more, at least experts are inclined to this. We must continue to stubbornly raise the economy and China, an example, then it will be useless, but threatening in vain is somehow not serious.
  41. Nikolai Mikhailovich
    Nikolai Mikhailovich 31 October 2017 03: 14
    +2
    Impose a ban on the export of titanium raw materials, ingots, pig titanium, and increase the state duty on titanium semi-finished products and finished titanium products!
  42. Evgeny Ivanovich
    Evgeny Ivanovich 31 October 2017 04: 32
    +1
    They will buy through intermediaries, such as shrimp from Belarus.
  43. gorenina91
    gorenina91 31 October 2017 06: 48
    +1
    -Yes, titanium ... is such a product that it is useful everywhere (at least in aviation, at least in medicine, etc. ...) and everywhere it will be “torn off with hands” ... -And if Russia is seriously going to carry it out “not one-time "(one or two) deliveries of the latest modern military aircraft ... -fighters, attack aircraft, helicopters, drones, drones .., missiles .., to our VKS, it’s worthwhile to take care of the availability of the required volume of this lightweight and durable metal ... - Once it was believed that there was plenty of uranium in the country ...
    -And now where are these uranium mines ...
    -And titanium should be exported only in the form of ready-made castings, billets, parts, etc. ... -And do not be afraid that Russia will lose sales markets ...
    -And the Chinese are unlikely to start supplying titanium to the foreign market "raw" ...
    - They are more likely to start purchasing raw materials from Russia, and finished parts from titanium will already be exported ...
    - And Russia should not be afraid ... - You just have to show your will ...
  44. Starter52
    Starter52 31 October 2017 07: 44
    0
    There is no need to refuse cooperation. It is necessary to produce the parts they need in Russia. They need to invest titanium in production in Russia. We will do it here and send it. They don’t want to. Let them buy the material at a double price. So that the material costs like finished parts. You need Boeing invested in production in Russia. It is impossible with them otherwise.
  45. SergF123
    SergF123 31 October 2017 08: 28
    +1
    VSMPO-AVISMA, according to open sources, produces more than 90% of Russian titanium!
    20 000 Employees are afraid to dismiss? !!!! It seems to me that if you cut off the managerial appetites and don’t give bonuses, you can hold out, given that the demand for titanium will still be stable - stop whining - it's time to do it!
  46. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 31 October 2017 08: 43
    +1
    This company is the largest titanium producer in the world, supplies titanium to 48 countries, and due to the fact that supplies to the USA cease, it will not suffer much, or it may win because it will open new markets. Another thing is that under existing contracts it will obliged to continue to supply titanium until the end of the contract, accordingly, during this time it will find new buyers. Of course, the Americans will also be able to find new sellers during this time, although it will cost them much more. Anyway, their production will not suffer , only the profit of enterprises that work with titanium will decrease.
    1. Evgeny Popov Nature
      Evgeny Popov Nature 6 November 2017 21: 08
      0
      Unfortunately, Ukraine will be able to replace Russia with titanium supplies - they also have this good ...
  47. Stepan Kudinov
    Stepan Kudinov 31 October 2017 08: 54
    +1
    “... it wasn’t easy for the deputies to delicately make it clear to the deputies that“ everything must be carefully weighed and analyzed so that, God forbid, it doesn’t hit us either. ”Yeah, well, after all, everything that has been overpowered by hard work - EVERYTHING is saved in those "bins".
  48. absaz
    absaz 31 October 2017 09: 53
    0
    We need to weigh, but also to do what is necessary, because we sat on our neck, or maybe we should give up and show our teeth.
  49. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 31 October 2017 10: 09
    +1
    To such "brainy" deputies who are stricting laws that kill the economy - they will immediately drive them to the neck from the Duma.
    They can’t do anything, but it’s good to ban them.
    The American proverb - "Shoot yourself in the foot," is how you can describe the intentions of the deputies.
    Only they do not shoot themselves in the foot ... In case of breach of contract, Boeing will find a replacement, AVISMA will lose its largest client, hard workers will lose their jobs, the state will not receive taxes. And the deputies do not lose anything - they all the same get into the Duma on the list, on the principle of personal loyalty.
  50. Sinbad
    Sinbad 31 October 2017 10: 49
    +1
    One of the few possibilities of blackmailing the West and the states, in the hope of protecting our foreign funds with our oligarchs. The attempt is a failure. Everyone understands that they can’t decide on this step.