In the Russian Federation developed a heavyweight wig

JSC "Central Design Bureau for SEC them. R.E. Alekseeva "is developing a super heavy transport-landing winged wig, which is planned to be used in the Arctic and the Pacific for rescue operations and cargo delivery to remote bases, according to News.

Caspian Monster KM-4

It is reported that the machine will be comparable in size to the Caspian Monster famous in Soviet times.

The company said that it is about creating a basic platform under the working title “Rescuer”. The mass of the aircraft will be of the order of 600 t with a length of 93 m and a wingspan of 71 m. The decision in favor of large-sized ground-effect vehicle was made because such devices can fly with sea waves with 5-6 points.

“The reduced models of the Rescuer have already been tested in the TsAGI wind tunnel in Zhukovsky near Moscow, as well as in a special pool. A positive expert opinion was received, a technical project was defended, production cooperation was formed. The plans - the creation of a full-scale mock-up with the pilot's cabin, the places of the operators. The power plant for the "Rescuer" will develop the Samara company "Kuznetsov" ", - stated in the material.

It is planned to lift the device in the air in 2022-2023, and to complete the tests in 2025.

The new ekranoplan will be equipped with a ramp to facilitate loading and unloading of fighters and equipment. He can carry up to 500 people with weapons at speeds of 550 km / h.

According to Alexander Mozgovogo, a naval expert, the return of an WV to service will be a great achievement for Russia.

This is welcome. WIGs are much more economical than airplanes, it will be possible to quickly transfer more cargo to a greater distance. If they manage to equip their chassis on an air cushion, they can even sit on the snowy hummocks. By its uniqueness, the machine will be comparable to the famous “Caspian monster. To create it, highly skilled specialists and production facilities are required. It will require very significant scientific, technical and financial resources,

said the expert.

Comments

[oldseaman1957]

Finally, the work of Rostislav Evgenievich Alekseev continued! After all, this will give Russia tremendous opportunities. And you should be proud of it!

[maxim947]

The thing is certainly interesting, but what tasks does it accomplish that cannot be solved by the available means?
Far from the most necessary thing today.

[weksha50]

Quote: maxim947

The thing is certainly interesting, but what tasks does it accomplish that cannot be solved by the available means?
Far from the most necessary thing today.

Use it first are going to in the pacific and in the Arctic ...
We read: "The new ekranoplan will be equipped with a ramp that facilitates the loading and unloading of fighters and equipment. He will be able to carry up to 500 people with weapons at a speed of 550 km / h. "...

It seems to me that there will be a use for him ...

[oldseaman1957]

Quote: maxim947

Far from the most necessary thing today.

WIG in operation is almost an order of magnitude more profitable than aircraft. Of course, you have to invest, but the prospects are worth it.

[maxim947]

All the same, the product is not of prime necessity, it is better to give money for small civil aviation, the situation is more critical there. Do not throw stones much, IMHO

[Thrall]

Introduced one taxiing to the beach in Miami, and inside 500 vacationers with weapons

[pjastolov]

Quote: Thrall

Introduced one taxiing to the beach in Miami, and inside 500 vacationers with weapons

and picnic equipment

[Uryukc]

Killer whale, get ready ..

42 second

[LSA57]

Quote: maxim947

it’s better to give money for small civil aviation,

these are different departments and their budgets are different. ekranoplans will be needed MO. we don't seem to save on defense

[maxim947]

Homeland alone. And the budget, respectively.

[LSA57]

Quote: maxim947

And the budget, respectively.

well no. the state has one. but it is divided into departments and the budget of the Ministry of Light Industry will never be greater than the budget of the Ministry of Defense.

[maxim947]

The question is not this, the question is that the "throwing" of the budget from industry to industry, etc. - this should not be a problem. In the first place should be the question of efficiency and the specific need to perform certain tasks (work).

[LSA57]

Quote: maxim947

The question is not this, the question is that the "throwing" of the budget

So you asked the question.

[dauria]

WIG in operation is almost an order of magnitude more profitable than aircraft

Why is there such optimism? What is cheaper there? And if just a normal amphibious aircraft with a full wing. What is worse? Even a seaplane, and that of the usual "land" transport aircraft loses due to strength requirements. And here is the "extra" weight, and low-altitude uneconomical flight profile, which devour all the advantages of the aerodynamic quality of the "screen" wing. But what about the "uncomfortable" sections of the route? Fly around?
Alekseev dreamed of raising a ship above the water. And for the price it turned out that this is a plane pressed to the water.

[NEXUS]

Quote: dauria

And if just a normal amphibious aircraft with a full wing.

MO repu scratches on the resumption of the A-40 project, as an anti-submarine hydro-plane ... and we do not have heavy amphibious aircraft except the BE-200 and the ghostly BE-2500. Moreover, the BE-2500 is just a sketch.

Quote: dauria

Alekseev dreamed of raising a ship above the water. And for the price it turned out that this is a plane pressed to the water.

Have you heard about SCREENS?

[tlauicol]

Quote: NEXUS

Have you heard about SCREENS?

heard, already hear about 70 years. but not one still

[NEXUS]

Quote: Tlauicol

heard, already hear about 70 years. but not one still

Apparently they are developing an ekranolet, not an ekranoplan ...

[abc_alex]

Why do you think so? Ekskroleta was "Eaglet". The theoretical ceiling of up to 10 km, in practice, flew at altitudes of about 1000 m. They did not raise above because the set of avionics on board was extremely imperfect, sufficient for flying on the screen, and this is much simpler. LTH "Orlyonka" as an airplane is akin to a 2MV bomber.

[tlauicol]

have a bite on practice

[34 region]

11.02. Maxim! What tasks does it accomplish that cannot be solved by the available means? With its speed and capacity there are tasks! How many cases have you already needed speed.

[maxim947]

Yes, I, in principle, with both hands FOR, the product is brutal and prestigious. Will give work to designers and workers. But there are priority tasks and the rest. After all, we were informed that there was no money. And there are enough problems, and in the most important way. It just can happen, as it sometimes happens - in half of the OCD everyone will stop and that's it. But in a good way, if you do a few products, with coastal infrastructure, personnel support and training services, etc. etc.

[Dorren]

exactly. throwing 300 tons of cargo per 1500 km in 3 hours is worth a lot (and this is only according to the performance characteristics of the old prototype, I hope they will also be improved due to new materials and technologies). Moreover, as we see, for thousands of years, nothing has fundamentally changed in the world - "He who has managed has eaten. He who is stronger is right."

[maxim947]

I will add. I would be immensely glad if I am mistaken in my opinions.

[Mimoprohodil]

Quote: Dorren

. throw 300 tons of cargo

And the fuel is no longer needed? The maximum take-off mass is an empty winged aircraft + fuel + cargo

[askort154]

maxim947 ...... The thing is certainly interesting, but what tasks does it accomplish that cannot be solved by the available means?

When it was created in the USSR, the primary role was assigned to it - the destruction of aircraft carriers. Moving it above the water surface at an altitude of ten meters at a speed of 400-500 km / h, made it a "big surprise" for the radar, both land and ship.

[GGN]

By our common efforts, we once found a worthy use of the Aircraft Carrier Killer Moon. Just need to slightly modify it. He goes to an aircraft carrier on autopilot with satellite navigation, without a crew, why people should be killed. The inside is filled with reinforced concrete, i.e. it is reinforced concrete inside, carrying capacity allows - mass with full payload (reinforced concrete) - 380 tons, max. speed 500 km / h. And such a fool at a speed of 500 km / h sweeps a security order and drives an aircraft carrier on board. What will happen to the aircraft carrier after Lun flies over the other side and goes to the bottom so that the enemy does not get the secret of reinforced concrete weapons? Right, crushing kirdyk. The ekranoplan is in every way cheaper than an aircraft carrier with its expensive carrier-based aircraft. No deck artillery at such speed and mass is not afraid of him - it is simply impossible to get into it. And if they accidentally get caught, it’s for him on the drum. So the ekranoplan is a terrible weapon - if used correctly.

[siberalt]

A rescue vehicle can carry up to 500 people with weapons ... Curious specifics, however!

[Dorren]

as history teaches us - and especially the events of recent years - “500 people with weapons”, who find themselves in the right place at the right time, often save more lives than any rescuers over the years of work.

[askort154]

sybiralt .......A rescue vehicle can carry up to 500 people with weapons ... A curious specificity, however!

These are awesome lifeguards!

[dog breeder]

and most importantly - polite!

[LSA57]

Quote: siberalt

A rescue vehicle can carry up to 500 people with weapons ... A curious specificity, however!

Did you read that?

JSC "Central Design Bureau for SEC them. R.E. Alekseeva "is developing an extra-heavy transport and landing winged craft, which is planned to be used in the Arctic and the Pacific Ocean for rescue operations and the delivery of goods to remote bases,

[Shura Sailors]

And what are the possibilities? Underflight, underflight. At least inferior in speed to the aircraft and in the carrying capacity of the ship

[sq]

Or at least surpasses the aircraft in capacity and the ship in speed. For the delivery of urgent goods, that’s it.

[Großer feldherr]

It’s better to use missiles to deliver urgent cargo, faster

[Filxnumx]

to deliver urgent cargo to the Arctic weighing 300 tons, a missile weighing 3000 tons is needed. Just freed the Arctic from trash you want to litter it again

[mihey]

You are right, only here the emphasis needs to be shifted: the ship is superior in speed and the aircraft in carrying capacity

[Lexa-149]

However, it surpasses the aircraft in carrying capacity and the ship in speed! Isn’t it?

[Maz]

In any case, it is better to change the watch in the Arctic on this than on a helicopter. When falling into the water, the ekranoplan does not sink! Like a helicopter that crashed.

[Winnie76]

Quote: Maz

When falling into the water, the ekranoplan does not sink! Like a helicopter that crashed.

And when the bulk carrier ram simply sprinkles a little ice-freezer and turns on the wipers

[Filxnumx]

in your world, probably dry cargo vessels with a height above the waterline of more than 50 meters are quite common, and the static rate of climb (dynamic is apparently unknown to you) of ekranoplanes at the level of terrestrial airships of the 30s of the last century.

[GGN]

Judging by the fact that the helicopter rests on the propeller and its body is intact, it did not crash, the pilots tried to land it on the water, but it did not work out. And the reason most likely is that the swashplate broke - while the helicopter turns over belly up, which we seem to have in this case. For a helicopter, this is just as fatal a malfunction as for an airplane - breaking the aileron thrust at low altitude, say when landing before turning onto a strip - nothing can be done, but there is no height to jump out.

[aszzz888]

... heroically overcome the difficulties that had previously been created in relation to ekranoplans ...

[Yarik]

All the same, this is very GOOD news !!! To the author of the news RESPECT and RESPECT!

[VohaAhov]

So there is one almost ready. Why develop?

[oldseaman1957]

Quote: VohaAhov

So there is one almost ready.

- Well, they’ll probably start from him!

[VohaAhov]

And will they spend eight years on this?

[FID]

Quote: VohaAhov

So there is one almost ready. Why develop?

What about budget money? Without them, NO!

[VohaAhov]

Yes, I couldn’t do without a saw and a drink.

[CentDo]

Judging by the photo, he obviously will not transport 500 people with weapons. What kind of beast is this?

[Wedmak]

This is the first version of the "Rescuer." Redone "Lun" in essence. 20 years there already stands. There is no sense in building it, only as a monument.

[Mimoprohodil]

Corps Tu-160 means you can finish building, but it is impossible

[Wedmak]

On ekranoplan load more. And there is no titanium beam, the basis of the center section. That is, the power set is completely different.
Yes, and take a look at modern projects - clear differences in design.

[Wedmak]

Old. Materials, devices, and engines too. Since then, they have stepped forward a little, why build on what will become completely obsolete in years 5?

[weksha50]

Well, all that remains is to wish: God, and luck, and finances, and other and other things to help ...

[Alexander 3]

Developments in the design of this necessary machine must be used for civilian needs, well, and to sell these versions later and abroad the same. Like our C 400.

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

"If you can equip their chassis with an air cushion ..."
And if on anti-gravity ... More engines for the "air cushion" to drag. Ahhhhhhhh! Wonderful.

[Bashibuzuk]

That's it, a funny expert, also drew attention.
Wing hovercraft .... why not with balloon balloons, like an airship?
Or even skiing. You can adapt the augers.
In general, judging by the last sentence - ". It will require the involvement of very significant scientific and technical and financial resources,. "- it is quite clear in which field this expert is examining.
...
It’s annoying, damn it ... I just began to incline to the idea that Oleg Kaptsov was kakbe, in some aspects, he was right about the ekranoplanes - and here comes the Renaissance!

[Wedmak]

More engines for the "air cushion" to drag.

Why drag them, if you can make the pillow a) aerodynamic, formed by the wings b) to withdraw from the starting engines.

[pvv113]

Very gratifying! There is still news that you read with pleasure!

[Egorovich]

For the boundless northern borders and our Pacific islands, such a technique is of course necessary. Urgent transfer of up to 500 armed people or cargo to almost any place, this speaks for itself.

[Old26]

Nda. Step on the same rake a second time. Well, a flag in your hands and a drum around your neck

[sabakina]

What rake? Work with ekranoplans was stopped because the Minister of Defense (forgot his name), who promoted this system, was replaced.

[Großer feldherr]

Nobody comes, there is a systematic "development of funds" allocated for "promising design work." The louder the project, the more dough will be allocated.

[padded jacket]

The ekranoplanes would be very useful as high-speed rescue equipment, for example, to save the crews of submarines, they would be able to quickly deliver divers and unmanned underwater vehicles to the crash site and take out their crew during its independent evacuation.

[san4es]

Eranoplan in pictures. This is the ekranoplan of project 903, called the "Rescuer". Work on it was frozen in the 90s at a high stage of readiness. They already pulled out the wiring and made the latrine

[gridasov]

The discussion platform of the VO forum should essentially fulfill the tasks of searching for interesting and progressive scientific, technical or inventive ideas. But this does not apply to Russians. Discussions turned into empty short emotional statements with a transition to personal insults and more. It’s clear that when someone at the top thinks,. that there are many people with well-founded inventive ideas, this is a profound error. Inventors units in the total mass of people. Inventors with breakthrough ideas are few in the period of the long existence of a community of people. Therefore, the topic of creating ekranoplanes rested and rests in understanding primarily physical laws, which means creating effective contact surfaces of aircraft with water and air, as well as fundamentally new engines and propulsion devices. Without new ideas, as many say, "things will remain where they were."

[Bashibuzuk]

Let me ask you a curiosity - who are you by nationality? Nanaec? Or bororo?
Why did you decide that the "discussion forum of the VO forum" is a club of rationalizers and inventors?
Yes, even someone with us, here you are, for example, propose a working engine with an efficiency of = 101%, and we all will confirm in chorus the slavery of this piece of iron - what should we do next?
And this ...".. The theme of the creation of ekranoplanes rested and rests in an understanding of primarily physical laws.. "A long time ago it was developed and IMPLEMENTED without our .. thoughts. Or screams. Or discussions. On a very serious, real hardware.

[gridasov]

I will express my compliment to the organizers of the site. Convenient and there is the ability to conduct dialogue with smart people. It really is not a club of inventors, but there are people of practice who see the problems of many issues. Therefore, in the community of inventors there is nothing to do at all. There you can only receive directed information about certain developments and no more.
Further. Indeed, we are repeatedly positioning, within the permissible level, a project of a fundamentally new process, on the basis of which we consider a mover of a new kind .. I am only surprised at your knowledge that you are using terminology that is not applicable at all in the analysis of hydro-gas-dynamic processes. I will explain. Efficiency is not an indicator of the performance of either the engine or propulsion. Why. Because when we work with hydro-gas-dynamic processes, we include in the work the potential energy of the transformation of the substance, which can be used in the algorithm of the process and as transformed kinetic energy. The work of our devices is based on these principles. In general, we are talking about a fundamentally new quality of the process that we can organize in the engine. By the way, it is an opportunity to develop detonation engines and ion engines. It is a real possibility of progress in one and the other case. And last .. Don’t make me nervous.! If they had been developed, I’m not even talking about the implementation of the principles of ekranoplanes, then they would have flown and used for a long time. Therefore, we can only talk about some initial knowledge about the possibility of using the elastic properties of the medium for flying at low altitudes. For example, you can use the expiration surface, which will not create protective rubber shells for the same hovercraft, but on an ekranoplane this will dramatically increase the lifting force of the air flow mixed with the dispersed water phase. And using our turbine, in general, in the operating mode, you can only change the flow direction without reducing the speed throughout the azimuth of space. I'm not talking about the concentration of flows and the organized processes of its dispersion. . Modern engine builders generally do not work with the elastic properties of water and air, and even more so I do not understand how to use the potential energy of both water and air.

[prodi]

how complicated it is when you can simply add to the short lower wing with a large chord (ship) wing a sliding airplane upper

[Izotovp]

How many lives can such a device save in the version of the director of self-propelled homing anti-ship mines, obstructing the approach to our shores of different democratizers !!!

[Winnie76]

Quote: Izotovp

How many lives can such a device save in the version

And how many lives will such an apparatus take with it as a result of marine accidents. With its speed and maneuverability. And by the way, have the gulls been canceled? Maybe Gridasov will come up with a high-speed meat grinder based on new physical principles. Install it on the stem.

[Izotovp]

And the seagulls are not the worst. And how many small boats such as yachts and trawlers will be on the way?

[Wedmak]

Highlight coastal routes, total and business. They now essentially exist. No one in their right mind will climb onto the path of tankers. Those, although not fast, but blind, they don’t see small vessels. They will crush and notice. If I remember correctly, who has less load capacity at sea, he must yield.
And in the open sea, a radar to help.

[rpuropuu]

Quote: quilted jacket

The ekranoplanes would be very useful as high-speed rescue equipment, for example, to save the crews of submarines, they would be able to quickly deliver divers and unmanned underwater vehicles to the crash site and take out their crew during its independent evacuation.

That's right. Not so long ago I watched the dock. film about the rescue "Komsomolets" If, then, in the Northern Fleet, the WIG had been armed, almost the entire crew would have been saved and there would have been no extra casualties among sailors . Then I remind you that the rescue ships did not have time to approach and the sailors were for many hours in ice water, and the plane could not land on the water

[padded jacket]

Quote: rpuropuu

If, then, in the Northern Fleet, the WIG had been armed, almost the entire crew would have been saved and there would have been no extra casualties among sailors

Fully agree with you.

[ZVO]

Quote: rpuropuu

Not so long ago I watched the dock. film about salvation "Komsomolets

Read more real documents and memoirs.
There are much more real facts than fairy tales.
And about the fact that no one knew how to lower rafts and deploy them, and therefore there was only one raft left ...
And the fact that the rescue capsule - drowned, typing water. instead of. to hang out like a float.
And the fact that not a single wetsuit.

WIGs would not help anyone.

read at least this
http://militera.lib.ru/research/cherkashin_na01/c
herkashin_na01.html

[Per se.]

More recently, under the F-35 freak article, some moaned over the subject of VTOL and WIG, simply, “sleep of reason”, all conversations about vertical circuits, different from their ideas, their conceit on technical awareness. The ekranoplans are reviving here, it remains to wait until the VTOL aircraft are revived. It should be noted that it is not uncommon in the media that they pour water on exactly what the Soviet school had been separated from the West. Speaking about WIG here and so everything is obvious, the States and now there is nothing of the kind, it is necessary to clarify about VTOL. Only two countries in the world had serial models of VTOL, the USSR and Britain, and the Yankees bought a license for the Harrier from the British, fitting it to the tasks of the Marine Corps. When our Yak-141 was first demonstrated, which showed supersonic speed and set a number of world records, Western firms came together to make friends together in the development against the Soviet aircraft. If it were not for stupidity and betrayal, we could have a big gap in the development of VTOL. By the way, in nature, abbreviated and vertical takeoff are mainly used, the takeoff takes much less. The time will come, and in the technique of a shortened and vertical start will prevail. Speaking about the VTOL, it is necessary to immediately emphasize that this is not an alternative to today's aviation, but a very promising direction, its own niche, necessary for the army and the fleet. The sooner we revive the work on the topic of verticals, to the delight of the enemy, the better, otherwise, we will be left behind forever, having a separation from the West once. The return of WIG is a good sign.

[rpuropuu]

Quote: maxim947

The thing is certainly interesting, but what tasks does it accomplish that cannot be solved by the available means?
Far from the most necessary thing today.

I wrote about the rescue of Komsomolets below, for the sake of interest, read the story of his death Provided that the Russian Navy relies on the submarine fleet, such ships are simply vital as life-saving appliances

[tank64rus]

It is high time. otherwise we harness for a very long time. It would be nice to drive fast.

[rpuropuu]

Quote: oldseaman1957

Finally, the work of Rostislav Evgenievich Alekseev continued! After all, this will give Russia tremendous opportunities. And you should be proud of it!

It’s a pity that Alekseev was ruined Lost a dedicated person and 25 years

[GGN]

What Alekseev created has no combat use precisely because of any seaworthiness along the wave. At one time on this topic was an interesting discussion with the participation of pilots. http://maxpark.com/user/3178178810/content/510036

[Großer feldherr]

The super-aircraft carrier has already been developed, now it is an ekranoplan, after and before the "death star" it will come.

[Svarog51]

and to the "death star" it comes.

Interesting idea Then we must now begin to design space fighters and cruisers.

[Sergey53]

It would be nice. Security will increase.

[rpuropuu]

Quote: Shura sailors

And what are the possibilities? Underflight, underflight. At least inferior in speed to the aircraft and in the carrying capacity of the ship

There was a version of WIG, called - Eaglet. So, this undership-under-plane could take on board the armored personnel carriers and fly them over 3 km in 4-1500 hours, and at the same time land as an airfield \ to go to any coast or beach
Instead of military equipment, it could have been anything. The same lifeguards, equipment, food
Imagine the prospect of using such technology in island sovereigns, where there is no (say, destroyed) or there can be no airfield (small island). To some extent, Russia also applies to such states

[GGN]

To the beach, yes, and to the coast, far from any http://maxpark.com/user/3178178810/content/510036

[Bronevick]

In Russia, a bicycle is being developed.

[polpol]

For instance. Now in winter, all that is needed in the settlements on the coast of the Arctic Ocean is delivered by plane. Delivery cost 300 000 tons. Therefore, prices for cooked sausages, confectionery, fresh fruits, berries and vegetables (excluding potatoes, carrots, beets, etc. that are stored for a long time, it is delivered by the sea in the summer) are approaching 1000 rubles kg.
If an ekranoplane with a route of its movement would be used over the ice of the Arctic Ocean along the route Murmansk (Arkhangelsk) - Norilsk-Pevek-Cape Schmidt, then the price of delivery of a ton would not be to 300 rubles to Pevek as an airplane, but rather within 0000-100 thousand rubles
At the same time, and with the beginning of navigation, air delivery of perishable and not subject to long storage, with short periods of sale of goods does not stop.
There would WIG would be out of competition with air transport. And the cost of transportation would not be 10 times higher than the sea, but only three to four times.

[stayer]

WIG in no way more economical than an airplane. It was also one of the minuses. It has 10 (!) Engines. Another thing is that he does not need airfield infrastructure. And he can stop at any point with a conditionally flat surface. For the military, this is not an unimportant factor.

[Tektor]

He needs a lot of engines to break away from the water, and then only a couple of marching ...

[GGN]

That's it, he just rolls the rest. And he has no seaworthiness. http://maxpark.com/user/3178178810/content/510036

[You Vlad]

Quote: stayer

WIG in no way more economical than an airplane.

More economical and an order of magnitude associated with the effect of the screen.

[Livonetc]

Quote: maxim947

Yes, I, in principle, with both hands FOR, the product is brutal and prestigious. Will give work to designers and workers. But there are priority tasks and the rest. After all, we were informed that there was no money. And there are enough problems, and in the most important way. It just can happen, as it sometimes happens - in half of the OCD everyone will stop and that's it. But in a good way, if you do a few products, with coastal infrastructure, personnel support and training services, etc. etc.

No money!
No money said!
However, in terms of budgeting for 17 years, there was an estimate of oil at $ 40 per barrel.
At the moment (end of year 17) we have a price above 59 dollars.
Information for consideration.

[Tektor]

It's great! No more words ...

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

Okay, let's be serious. Aircraft beat ecranosaurs in universality (a planet is not an ideal ball with no weather), ships in strength and cheapness of operation, + ekranoplan is not just “an awesome flying fool carrying so many things,” but also the infrastructure for it and the operation of aircraft engines in aggressive environment (salt water, you know everything is expensive) It’s not necessary, like Pyotr Alekseich “And let's build a fleet” ... minus 20% of the population and a hole in the budget from Madagascar.

[rpuropuu]

Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh

Okay, let's be serious. Aircraft beat ecranosaurs in universality (a planet is not an ideal ball with no weather), ships in strength and cheapness of operation, + ekranoplan is not just “an awesome flying fool carrying so many things,” but also the infrastructure for it and the operation of aircraft engines in aggressive environment (salt water, you know everything is expensive) It’s not necessary, like Pyotr Alekseich “And let's build a fleet” ... minus 20% of the population and a hole in the budget from Madagascar.

1). Do you know that the same Eaglet withstands 5 point excitement?
Moreover, he could break away from the water and fly like a regular plane.
2). At the expense of strength, the same KM in the event of a breakdown was left by the crew and drifted for 2 weeks, while maintaining buoyancy
The same Eaglet as hit the water, his engine was TORNED off, while he was able to reach the shore
3). At the expense of the aggressive environment. Learn the difference between the Ka-52 Alligator and the Ka-52 Katran.

[rpuropuu]

Quote: stayer

WIG in no way more economical than an airplane. It was also one of the minuses. It has 10 (!) Engines. Another thing is that he does not need airfield infrastructure. And he can stop at any point with a conditionally flat surface. For the military, this is not an unimportant factor.

Just the "screen effect" and creates additional lift
And also you confuse KM with other machines.
There was a small "Swift", then transport Eaglet, lifeguard-rocket carrier Lun, and the largest KM

[Siberian]

There is a suspicion that if you gash it on electric traction, then there will be a thing. One fig pulled to the north a floating nuclear power plant - charged - and back.

[Romanenko]

It’s time, already for good reason, the mattress covers included the Soviet ekranoplanes in the Gorbachev reconciliation list.
And in coast-sea modes and vice versa, such equipment will be very popular.
Large "pillows" are not so fast and very voracious, the ekranoplan can greatly change the equipment of the Marine Corps, leaving small and medium "pillows" and completely replacing large ones.
But for this, of course, you need to start building and operating ekranoplanes, transport, landing and strike.

[tchoni]

[b] [/ b] And if this crap at the cost of a cast-iron bridge, with an infantry battalion on board, comes off the screen? And if the storm is 9 points.

[abc_alex]

The Alekseevsky scheme is both wonderful and unique, and therefore not accessible for copying by the same staff, which ensures a very high stability of the machine on the screen. "Eagles" dragged more than 200 marines for hundreds of kilometers and have never taken their eyes off the screen.

And at 9 points NO type of water transport in the sea will not work.

[Thunderbolt]

It is better to put the production of amphibious aircraft on a large stream, and strengthen the auxiliary fleet with new transporters (so that Turkey does not beg for frank junk).
Indeed, on that, the Japs or Koreans may not sell theirs to us, if something happens.
I think this is the right and necessary thing. And why do we need big monsters? Militarily, this is a very vulnerable target, and in logistics it will be expensive.
Maybe they cover up some promising secret development with this topic?

[abc_alex]

Well, consider it yourself: the modern Be-200 has a passenger capacity of just over 40 people. And the old A-90 Eaglet wore up to 200.
In this case, a pair of Be-200 engines in total give traction of 15 tons, and the A-90 marching engine is less than 14 tons. The Be-200 flies further almost twice, of course.
But it is easy to calculate that for transporting a battalion of marines without equipment in one wave, it is necessary to build at least 12-13 Be-200s or 3 A-90s.

Of course, there is no reason to even try to replace cargo ships or BDK by ekranoplans. This is a technique for high-speed, emergency transport of goods and troops, and not for systematic and systematic traffic.

[tank66]

Only practice will show whether this gravity is useful. Someone has not heard about airships for a long time. Count Zeppelin famously dissected / even against the wind / at one time. On what burned / in the literal sense / the glue on the shell burned down, that your gunpowder is a "falcon". Right now, any varnish will be boiled in Skolkovo ... / gee-gee /. JBB ride, it hardly makes sense, but fuels and lubricants, pilomatery, vegetable in the north, just right.

[Stoler]

Most likely this wadding will end with another Puk

[Nemesis]

Money down the drain ... A very expensive toy, with serious restrictions on use in unimportant weather and dangerous for operation by the crew, like an airplane

[Old26]

Quote: sabakina

What rake? Work with ekranoplans was stopped because the Minister of Defense (forgot his name), who promoted this system, was replaced.

A system is good if the next Minister of Defense "writes off" the achievements of the previous Minister of Defense. Or maybe the new one realized that this is a dead end branch of development? Outwardly effective, but not effective?

Quote: kvm

Or at least surpasses the aircraft in capacity and the ship in speed. For the delivery of urgent goods, that’s it.

Let's compare. The maximum take-off from the same Lun is 380 tons. Empty, it weighs 243 tons. Plus, a load of 6 missiles, along with the TPK, is still about 28 tons. He throws these 28 tons at a speed of 500 km per hour at a range of 2000 km.
Now take a plane of similar take-off mass. She is in the region of 400 tons at the AN-124.
He carries 150 tons of load at a range of 3000 km at a speed of 800 kilometers per hour. And 40 tons - at a range of 11000 km.
You can compare combat aircraft. TU-160 has a refueling of about 70-75 tons. He will deliver his combat load to a range of 12000 km. And about the same 30 tons. At a speed of 800-900 km / h. The Lun has 110 tons of refueling and a maximum range of 2000 km. Speed ​​500 km / h. The missile launch range is 120 km. Even if non-nuclear weapons are put on the TU, then the missile range will be greater and will be abandoned for a greater range. What year are you?
It turns out that the aircraft carrying capacity is higher than the ekranoplan. Speed ​​is greater, range is greater
An ordinary ship has a much higher payload, as well as range. And the speed compared to the speed of the ekranoplan is small. but both the ship and the aircraft can be refueled while driving. Refueling ekranoplan in motion - suicide. The ekranoplan's range is about 2000 km. That means a radius of about 1000 km. Aircraft AWACS are now perfectly observing targets on the background of the underlying surface. And the radius of the radar AWACS - about 600 km. They will see him even before he reaches the launch range of his missiles.
What is the plus?
Everyone says a lifeguard. But he can fly with a wave of 5-6 points. And this is a wave height of 2-3 meters. He flew to the Caspian only in good weather. Everyone remembers the tragedy of Komsomolets. You can find out how this ekranoplan would help with the storm that was then there. Moreover, the rescue expedition ships came due to the storm several hours later. Okay, let’s leave Komsomolets alone. The death of any surface ship. Rescue equipment in stormy weather will be scattered over an area of ​​a dozen kilometers. How will the ekranoplan catch people? And how will it take off if the wave height is not 2-3 meters, but much more?
Tested in "greenhouse conditions" the device has never been tested in open seas and oceans. In addition, the range is so small that he can save only very close to his base.
"Rescuer" that is not completed - a copy of the "Moon". Explain to me how in the fuselage 70 meters long and 3,5 x 3,5 meters can be placed either 150 saved or almost 500 to the maximum

What will the ramp provide an ekranoplane? Well, he will drop the landing, and then? You can find out how he will remove from the same sandy shore where he sits, rises to the height of the screen and fly home? The Lun for this had 8 engines with a total thrust of 104 tons. Launching was carried out on a special concrete split. Split at the adversary at the landing site certainly will not be.

[Wedmak]

You can answer briefly: Rostislav Alekseev with his ekranoplans ahead of his time. Well, at the time there were no strong and light alloys, powerful engines and effective calculations of strength, aerodynamics and other things. Therefore, monsters with controversial characteristics have turned out. Nevertheless, the "Eaglet" was in service with the Marine Corps and was used. KM tests were underway, where under emergency circumstances it showed tremendous survivability. Practice and experience in managing such machines was not. And the tests of Lun confirmed the great effectiveness of missile weapons on an ekranoplane.
Now imagine that EVERYTHING will redesign, deliver powerful and energy-efficient engines. They optimize the wing, body contours, seaworthiness. New alloys, new approaches to solving problems.
With small devices have already begun.

There are projects and large ones.

And we get, something like this.

[abc_alex]

It is sometimes surprising how superficially critics of ekranoplanes are familiar with their design :)

To begin with, speaking about missile-carrying options, you forgot that the Moskit ship-mounted missile systems on the external sling were installed on the moon. No plane can pull such a load. A similar aircraft complex X-22 has a unique carrier - Tu-22. And for each such aircraft one missile is regularly hung. 2 with the loss of LTX and three in overload, as no one will fly into battle. So for delivery of the Lunev missile cargo, 3 to 6 Tu-22s will be required. So you need to compare fuel and other costs Lunya with three T-22M. There is a desire? :) But the Tu-160 does not carry anti-ship missiles, its weapons have a completely different purpose.

Comparison of Lun with an aircraft of similar mass An-124 is too tight. Of course, a cargo plane has greater transport efficiency than a combat aircraft. I think Ruslana will lose the Tu-160 in this competition. No wonder Lun will lose to him. But how do you intend to launch missiles from Ruslan? Yes, and marine? It’s not nitpicking, it’s just that there are no universal machines in the world, it’s apparently impossible to build a missile carrier with the transport efficiency of a truck.

Next, tell me what is the problem of refueling ekranoplan? It’s even easier than with an airplane. Just land it next to the tanker and through the hose. :)

Next, do not again this strange song about AWACS aircraft. If someone starts an attack on the fleet or coast, when the enemy’s AWACS fly with impunity in the air, they must immediately be put on the wall for militant idiocy. If the enemy uses AWACS with impunity, no missile carrier will come close to him, neither surface, nor air, nor screen. And airplanes in the first place - they are not hidden by the horizon, fly at an altitude of more than 10 km and are visible to all radar systems at maximum range. The ekranoplan in this sense is just more secretive; until a certain point, it is hidden behind the horizon from ground and ship radars. And you can hide it against the background of water by applying a complex to reduce radio visibility. Irradiated, he will always be from one angle - from above - the most advantageous for him.

On a wave, the ekranoplan behaves like a medium-seaworthy ship, but due to its design (a large-area wing), it is more stable and can well take on board the injured. He talks less on water. Of course, where the cruiser cannot function, the ekranolet will not save. But on a wave of 1-2 meters, he will be able to throw lifeguards with special equipment much faster than the ship will do, and most importantly, unlike an airplane, he will sit next to him. and can calmly anchor. Whatever you eat on board, Lun has two. You just forget all the time that the ekranoplane does not need to throw rescuers from a height at a speed, it just sits on the water. The strength of the case will allow.

"Rescuer" that is not completed - a copy of the "Moon". Explain to me how in the fuselage 70 meters long and 3,5 x 3,5 meters can be placed either 150 saved or almost 500 to the maximum

Have you seen the arrow of the crane? There, God forbid, too, and what goods are hanging at the very end. :) The Lunar fuselage is not built according to airplane schemes, there the longitudinal power beams are almost made of steel channel. :)

Well, he will drop the landing, and then? You can find out how he will remove from the same sandy shore where he sits, rises to the height of the screen and fly home? The Lun for this had 8 engines with a total thrust of 104 tons. Launching was carried out on a special concrete split. Split at the adversary at the landing site certainly will not be.

Lun will not be able to reset, he has a complex mooring system. But A-90 Eaglet - maybe. Thanks to the blowing under the wing, it can practically hang above the surface, the pressure on the ground is very small and the concrete descent is not necessary for it, a gentle sandy beach is also quite suitable.

[Mentat]

But what about the cries of inefficiency, the dump of history and the complete failure of the ekranoplanes, which have repeatedly sounded at this forum?

[Old26]

Quote: Wedmak

You can answer briefly: Rostislav Alekseev with his ekranoplans ahead of his time. Well, at the time there were neither strong and light alloys, powerful engines and effective calculations of strength, aerodynamics and other things. Therefore, monsters with controversial characteristics have turned out. Nevertheless, the "Eaglet" was in service with the Marine Corps and was used. KM tests were underway, where under emergency circumstances it showed tremendous survivability. Practice and experience in managing such machines was not. And the tests of Lun confirmed the great effectiveness of missile weapons on an ekranoplane.
Now imagine that EVERYTHING will redesign, deliver powerful and energy-efficient engines. They optimize the wing, body contours, seaworthiness. New alloys, new approaches to solving problems.
With small devices have already begun.

There are projects and large ones.

And we get, something like this.

With your statement that he was ahead of his time I agree completely. Perhaps in 30-40 years, both large and heavyweight will begin to be in demand, but not now. Now the ekranoplan (superheavy) is losing both to the plane and to the ship. But the small ones ... This is a completely different matter. If my sclerosis does not fail me, the production of such a machine as the Petrel-24 has already begun. which combines several machines at once. "Petrel" can be used as a displacement vessel, as a glider, as a snowmobile. It can be used as an ekranoplan and light aircraft. This is truly universalism and such machines are necessary. EMNIP loading capacity is 600 kg or 6 people. The flight range is about 1000-1500 km (I don’t remember exactly). Now they are needed. And the giants, similar to the "Moon", especially with such characteristics as they had - this, sorry, window dressing.
It was painful to look at the rusting Lun in Kaspiysk. And in conversations with people. who were somehow involved in this - the reviews were twofold. As a design - a masterpiece, as a machine for operation - reviews are extremely negative. Moreover, many simply say that the test in the Caspian is only a test of the concept. In reality, even in the Caspian there were accidents and catastrophes of ekranoplanes (despite the fact that there are very sparing conditions). And in the open ocean ....

Quote: Mentat

But what about the cries of inefficiency, the dump of history and the complete failure of the ekranoplanes, which have repeatedly sounded at this forum?

It is about the inefficiency of giant machines. Which have a take-off under 400-500 tons, an empty weight of 250 tons, 110-150 tons of fuel and at the same time a post of tons of load and a range of 1,5-2 thousand kilometers. Here they are ineffective. And in this case, they really turned out to be. As you say, at the junkyard of history

[Mimoprohodil]

Quote: Old26

EMNIP loading capacity is 600 kg or 6 people. Flight range of the order of 1000-1500 km (I do not remember exactly)

And what is better than the new all-composite biplane?

[Buoy tour]

That's cool. 5 ekranoplanes on each fleet in the Russian Federation and bad people will think about before sailing into territorial waters. I saw the test of "Lun" with my own eyes, dear respected man Rostislav Evgenievich Alekseev, a low bow and a bright memory. We remember and are proud. I hope there will be a civilian version, there were sketches.

[Evgeny Zhukov]

Didn’t you really decide to unfreeze the draft of the disant-bearing screen-plan?!?

[Old26]

Quote: Mimoprohodil

And what is better than the new all-composite biplane?

Universality.