Military Review

F-35: fifth generation physiological freak

342



If we consider all the "creative" combat activity aviation Since the end of the 70s as an exclusively commercial project, one has to admit its highest efficiency. Not dozens - hundreds of billions of dollars - have been successfully mastered as part of creating projects that are unique in their stupidity. The first projects appeared F-22 and F-23, then they were supplemented by B-1, B-2 and F-117 ... Leaders in terms of the amount of funds spent succeeded each other. F-22 in the end, without too much noise were written off to the scrap. But the Pentagon did not lose heart.

Back in 2001, Lockheed Martin began developing F-35. As part of the Joint Strike Fighter program, it was intended to replace all the outdated fighter and attack aircraft models at once — the F-16 Fighting Falcon, A-10 Thunderbolt II, F / A-18 Hornet and AV-8B Harrier II. According to the plans of the Pentagon, Lightning II was supposed to be a cheaper and more technologically advanced alternative to the fifth-generation fighter F-22 Raptor.

Any domestic aircraft designer would say that this is impossible even theoretically. But this is America - "America can do anything!"

In the next 16 years, F-35 in several versions was turned into a super-project, imposing it on all US allies. Proving that the United States is capable of combining state corruption and the creation of aircraft heavier than air. But only. Combining a grand budget cut with ultra-modern and effective Yankee combat aircraft were not able to.

"The incompleteness of the aircraft, the need to constantly choose workarounds for flight procedures and the extremely limited capabilities of the internal systems do not allow us to assess the suitability of the F-35 for training as part of a squadron (squadron) and participation in battles," said the Ministry of Operational Testing and Evaluation US defense back in February 2013 year!

Disgusting view from the cockpit, the inability to conduct effective close combat to gain superiority in the cubature of space, disgusting gun, the ban on flying novice pilots on supersonic, low stability, failure at temperatures below minus 15 degrees, failures of the ejection system on the first series aircraft, no protection against lightning and problems with the control system interface ... the list of deficiencies of the machine takes dozens of sheets of the report.

Past since the report 4, fundamentally did not change anything. Except one. Due to the continued production and imposition of the F-35 to its allies, the Pentagon was able to report a reduction in the cost of one plane from the fabulous 237 million dollars to 120-ti. This, of course, is not originally declared 80-90 million dollars, but at least something. At the same time, he is silent about the fact that, in fact, the manufacturer continues to make a profit, and the US budget to bear more and more new spending, riveting not a 5 generation fighter, but a flying misunderstanding.

It comes to mysticism. Over the past few months, the US Air Force has recorded a significant surge in “physiological episodes” (cases of inexplicable deterioration in the health of pilots) accompanying the operation of F-35 fighters. If during the 2006-2016 period, the military counted ten such incidents, by now their number has grown to twenty, according to Aviation Week.

At least five out of ten such episodes occur in the current year. They occurred between 2 May and 8 June at the US Air Force Base Luke in Arizona. As a result, F-35 flights were suspended.

According to the commander of the 56 th operational group of Colonel Ben Bishop (piloted F-35), after the resumption of flights of the airbase fighters, three more "physiological episodes were recorded. According to him, experts who have been working with F-35A for several months still could not find the causes of this problem.

The experts involved are not sure whether the “physiological episodes” indicate hypoxia itself (a decrease in the oxygen content in the blood) or are a consequence of other conditions, for example, hypercapnia (an increase in the level of carbon dioxide in the blood), tissue hypoxia (disruption of the use of oxygen by the tissues), decompression illness, dehydration, lack of sleep, or nervous exhaustion.

Since earlier there were accidents related to the failure of the oxygen system, the backup oxygen supply system was carefully checked. Checks confirmed its health. Currently, experts are rewriting the programs responsible for monitoring fluctuations in oxygen concentration levels. it is assumed that this will allow more efficient supply of oxygen to the pilot and thereby potentially facilitate his breathing. At the same time, Colonel Bishop is sure that “physiological episodes” are not associated with pollution of the cabin or the oxygen supply system.

The commander of the 56 th operational group insists that the last three "physiological episodes" are united by a common circumstance - the backup oxygen supply system worked properly, but the pilots did not immediately feel an improvement in their state of health. "I think there may be something based on the interaction of the machine and the person, something that affects the breath. We are considering the work of valves that allow our pilots to exhale," said the colonel.

According to statistics provided in connection with the publication of the next problems, it is with F-35 that “physiological episodes occur most often — 2006-like incidents were recorded for 2017-29 years.

New facts only confirm the previously identified shortcomings of the F-35. The machine, which was supposed to be a breakthrough in the aircraft industry, turned into a real headache.

Very expensive headache.

REFERENCE. Israel buys these planes only because, under the terms of American economic assistance, it must spend it on American weapons. In fact, so much American weapons Israel simply does not need, and it has to buy goods only nominally for military purposes, for example, food for the military.
Author:
Photos used:
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342 comments
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  1. andrewkor
    andrewkor 26 October 2017 05: 29
    +4
    And what about Israel, the American taxpayer pays all right, even weapons, food, toilet paper- "Freebie, sir!"
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 26 October 2017 09: 02
      45
      Not tired of blackening the F-35? Immediately there is an analogy with women-gossips on the bench.
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 26 October 2017 11: 38
        29
        Quote: xetai9977
        Not tired of blackening the F-35? Immediately there is an analogy with women-gossips on the bench.

        In this case, the VO has nothing but gossip. Why not.
        Perhaps the penguin is actually much better than we think. He is so insanely intelligent and megafunctional. And by the number of pages of code, he will probably surpass War and Peace. Only here it costs a little somehow. Moreover, the price for some reason is considered without taking into account the engine, a kosher magic helmet, etc. Strange, right?
        Well and still a nuance. I don’t recall such publications about F16, F 15, F18 or F 22. With all the wow-cheers, patriotism is considered to be serious fighters.
        Ps carlocopp can't lie wassat
        1. karabas-barabas
          karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 18: 28
          13
          And now we look at the total number of flight hours and the absence of any significant accidents, not to mention the absence of crashed cars and dead pilots. What other aircraft can boast of this ?? Reliability at the highest level. Now we look at the practice of implementing the F-35 in several air forces of the world .. So what about the gossip grandmothers, he is not quite right, or
          1. KonOnOff
            KonOnOff 27 October 2017 00: 51
            17
            Is this about the F-35? So he flies only on limited modes, and not at nominal (declared in TTT and TTZ). Precisely so that planes and pilots are not killed! By any criterion declared TTT and TTZ "penguin" has not yet come out!
            1. karabas-barabas
              karabas-barabas 28 October 2017 02: 12
              +2
              This is where they say this ?? The combat use also in the "" limited modes "occurs ??
          2. Bibliographer
            Bibliographer 7 November 2017 12: 08
            +1
            If you compare the number of trouble-free engine hours on F1 cars and antediluvian basins, the comparison will not be in favor of sports cars.
        2. Orel
          Orel 26 October 2017 20: 03
          +4
          Quote: Winnie76
          Only here it costs a little somehow. Moreover, the price for some reason is considered without taking into account the engine, a kosher magic helmet, etc. Strange, right?


          And in the United States, something from military equipment is cheaper than classmates in other countries for sale ??? In my opinion, everything was always expensive for them. The economy is developed simply. Another level of costs and income for workers and suppliers of components.
        3. Dart2027
          Dart2027 26 October 2017 20: 06
          +5
          Quote: Winnie76
          I do not recall similar publications about F16, F 15, F18 or F 22

          15, 16 and 18 participated in all predatory, that is, US peacekeeping missions. But about the 22nd is also not very audible.
          1. Alexey Z
            Alexey Z 28 October 2017 08: 51
            0
            What about f117?
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 28 October 2017 13: 15
              +3
              Sometimes he does something, but whatever one may say, the basis of the US Air Force is 15, 16 and 18.
          2. rtutaloe
            rtutaloe April 3 2018 11: 44
            0
            F-22 - Syria.
        4. evil partisan
          evil partisan 26 October 2017 21: 34
          +3
          Quote: Winnie76
          And by the number of pages of code, he will probably surpass War and Peace.

          laughing
          good
          1. t7310
            t7310 27 October 2017 22: 13
            +3
            And by the number of pages of code, he will probably surpass War and Peace.


            It seems to me an order of magnitude higher - he will surpass the library where there is war and peace
            1. t7310
              t7310 27 October 2017 22: 28
              +2
              By the way, the usual pure Windows library will surpass the library, if the war and peace are transferred to the txt format, how much will it weigh 5mb? well, a maximum of 20mb if with pictures
        5. Mih1974
          Mih1974 27 October 2017 21: 31
          +7
          I’ll add another “five cents”: when riveting there are already a lot of these Fu-35 mattresses, they sharply “abandoned the plans to write off the A-10,” moreover, as unexpectedly, the F-16 began to produce even more sophisticated versions. There are no new modernizations, namely new F-16s, it would seem “why, because here it is the Miracle of aircraft technology”, but no, it’s not “replaced” from what has already been tested. tongue
          1. LastPS
            LastPS 24 November 2017 21: 31
            +1
            The F-16 is in very good demand in the foreign market, so its modernization programs will not lose their relevance for a long time. The US Air Force will continue to use the 16th for a long time, simply because it’s cheap and cheerful to use it directly in the United States, and the likelihood of military operations in America is where it is near zero, and plans for the retraining of decommissioned falcons in UAVs condone its production - it won’t go to junk as it becomes obsolete. The 35th is more for the Navy and the ILC, in order to carry democracy to distant points where it does not exist yet, but there is a real chance of counteraction to less perfect fighters, such as the 16s. The A-10, however, doesn’t make much sense to write off at all, I don’t think that the 35th can replace it at all, simply because it can use cheap power supplies, in addition to all the tricked out mavericks, and this is its plus when fighting against undemocratic Papuans.
            1. rtutaloe
              rtutaloe April 9 2018 10: 10
              0
              A-10s are likely to be removed in favor of the A-64 Apache, simply because of the reduction in spending on the range of weapons. And the adoption of the F-35 just coincides with this. As for the production of the F-16, it will not lose demand precisely because of its cheapness compared to the 35th. Some are still armed with the MiG-21, but this is not a strong argument against, for example, the MiG-29 or the same F-16.
        6. Left shot
          Left shot 28 October 2017 06: 23
          +2
          Well, again, I would not put F-15 and FA-18 in one row (there isn’t such one - F-18).
          Yes, and about the experience of the F-22, something in ammunition is not heard much.
        7. rtutaloe
          rtutaloe April 9 2018 10: 17
          0
          At the time of their creation and arming, trolling was not yet in fashion. And in general, in those days on the forums people were responsible for their bazaar and were afraid to seem dumb or uninformed in the eyes of other people. And now spam and trolling are in fashion, especially since this is part of the site maintenance business. No matter what you write, the main activity and place on the first page of leading search engines.

          And yes, it is considered normal if the next generation of weapons is one and a half times more expensive than the previous one. But it happens that 2,5 times or more, and this does not stop anyone.
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 26 October 2017 11: 45
        16
        Quote: xetai9977
        Not tired of blackening the F-35? Immediately there is an analogy with women-gossips on the bench.

        Nobody is blackening him ... F-35 problems surface with steady constancy. Many sores that were not resolved on the F-22 were successfully adopted by the F-35. And I'm sure the problem with hypoxia is far from the last. At the same time, the developer requires money, and not small, to eliminate all these problems, shortcomings, and sores, and this cannot positively affect the cost of the aircraft itself or its combat readiness. What does the change and troubleshooting of the F-35 is not a modernization of the aircraft, so that it becomes better with each stage, but rather the completion of the first Lightning series. They stupidly try to bring it to combat readiness not improving it, but treating the constructive problems that were laid down in the project itself.
        1. KonOnOff
          KonOnOff 27 October 2017 00: 53
          +7
          Exactly! F-35 was still a "stillborn freak" in all philosophy and design. It has fundamental design problems that are not “dopilnymi” files. Actually, the whole concept needs to be redesigned anew "from scratch" ... "But who will give them ?!"
          1. NIKNN
            NIKNN 27 October 2017 22: 35
            +3
            Quote: KonOnOff
            "But who will give them ?!"

            They will give it to themselves. request Here the Wishlist are too overpriced ... Well, they even have Trump engaged in advertising (power) ... Israel has nowhere to go, but you will not praise your Jews, we will finish it, and we will put our own software. I would say so ...

            Well, like that ... request
      3. the most important
        the most important 26 October 2017 19: 28
        11
        Quote: xetai9977
        Not tired of blackening the F-35? Immediately there is an analogy with women-gossips on the bench.

        You're right! It is a pity that the minuses were canceled, such hatco-Zakidonian opuses must be rewarded! That's when the Syrian pilot on the MIG-23 will dump this miracle or the S-125 air defense battery will blow it to dust, then it’s worth clapping, but it’s obviously too early ...
      4. KonOnOff
        KonOnOff 27 October 2017 00: 15
        14
        Well, if the report of the commission of the US Congress (or Senate) for the past year is considered “gossip women,” then the flag is in your hands! This report went to other military forums as a PDF file in English. And although I have no problems with English, it was very difficult to read it, because it is simply crammed with specialized terminology and abbreviations. So, if my memory serves me (you can search and clarify), then out of 96 problematic issues of the last report, 45 new ones have not been resolved until the new one. And to them even in the new report, roofing felts 24, roofing felts 26 new problems were added.

        Read the source. In the original language. Then there will be no questions.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. KonOnOff
        KonOnOff 27 October 2017 00: 18
        16
        The article is only a small fraction of all that is written in the official report to the US Congress (or Senate) over the past year by the F-35 project commission.
        1. Negro
          Negro 27 October 2017 18: 35
          0
          Quote: KonOnOff
          The article is only a small fraction of everything that is written in the official report to Congress

          This just means that the commission was not bought by Lockheed. Although it is possible, it was bought by a Boeing.
        2. Negro
          Negro 27 October 2017 18: 35
          0
          Quote: KonOnOff
          The article is only a small fraction of everything that is written in the official report to Congress

          This just means that the commission was not bought by Lockheed. Although it is possible, it was bought by a Boeing.
  2. dog breeder
    dog breeder 26 October 2017 05: 37
    31
    Not a fan of the United States, but underestimate the enemy, the path to defeat. Be wiser!
    1. 73bor
      73bor 26 October 2017 06: 25
      10
      This is not an underestimation of the facts, about a hundred F-35 just stand at the airfields due to technical problems and lack of staff!
      1. 210ox
        210ox 26 October 2017 07: 58
        32
        The facts are that these planes bring to mind and they fly. They have built more than two hundred. Technologies are being worked out, problems are being eliminated. Do you think that such staff members will not be able to resolve technical issues. We have been putting the T50 on the wing for years. Even more They didn’t put it on production. We won’t notice sorin in the eyes of others, or else we flipped it in our log. And these articles about the “freak” F35 have already been cheated ..
        Quote: 73bor
        This is not an underestimation of the facts, about a hundred F-35 just stand at the airfields due to technical problems and lack of staff!
        1. Yuri Zaitsev
          Yuri Zaitsev 26 October 2017 09: 33
          +8
          Before you slander our auto industry, look at Wikipedia and check how long they put on the f-35 wing .....
          1. 210ox
            210ox 26 October 2017 10: 02
            18
            Our auto industry? Well, it’s like itself. And our aviation industry, I don’t criticize. These are different things. It's just that we are tired of hearing about the shortcomings of the Amerz plane. You just need to prove that ours is better. There’s nothing to prove so far.
            Quote: Yuri Zaitsev
            Before you slander our auto industry, look at Wikipedia and check how long they put on the f-35 wing .....
            1. grandson of Perun
              grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 13: 21
              +6
              Quote: 210ox
              Our auto industry? Well, he’s like himself.

              I remember very well how in every clownish program they scambled over our auto industry. Massively and in the most expensive airtime.
              By your logic, our car factories themselves paid for this expensive bacchanalia at a time when they sorely lacked money for modernization.
              However, the more logical and realistic assumption is that the bullying of our car industry was paid by those who eventually squeezed more than 80% of the Russian automobile market.
              1. Sharansky
                Sharansky 26 October 2017 14: 31
                10
                Quote: Perun's grandson
                harassment of our car industry was paid by those who eventually squeezed out more than 80% of the Russian automobile market.

                or maybe it was all worth doing normal cars instead of trash?
                1. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 14: 41
                  +3
                  Quote: Sharansky
                  Quote: Perun's grandson
                  harassment of our car industry was paid by those who eventually squeezed out more than 80% of the Russian automobile market.

                  or maybe it was all worth doing normal cars instead of trash?

                  Or maybe you say which of our cars was trash and what was their "abnormality"?
                  Or do you again blurted out muck - and into the bushes, so as not to answer for your words?
                  1. Sharansky
                    Sharansky 26 October 2017 14: 42
                    11
                    or maybe you’ll try to sit in Lada Kalina or in the UAZ-Patriot and the questions will disappear? Or do you have a little rust right from the factory? Or the grandchildren of Perun disdain to try?
                    1. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 15: 43
                      +7
                      Quote: Sharansky
                      or maybe you’ll try to sit in Lada Kalina or in the UAZ-Patriot and the questions will disappear? Or do you have a little rust right from the factory?

                      I tried it. There is no rust.
                      Did you see the rust directly from the factory with your own eyes or do you judge our cars only by a comedy club?

                      And about the fact that you ranked Lada Kalina as trash, then apparently the Japanese do not understand cars at all, if on the Kalina platform they release Datsun on-Do and mi-Do.
                      1. True
                        True 26 October 2017 16: 16
                        10
                        Quote: Perun's grandson
                        apparently the Japanese do not understand cars at all if on the Kalina platform they release Datsun on-Do and mi-Do.

                        You do not sculpt a hunchback. Datsun is only sold in backward countries. How many are there in Japan? Yes "0"! Then about black PR ... Do you think the manufacturers of useless, low-quality, unsafe Mercedes and all sorts of Volvo slandered our vases? I have a friend on a Volvo in a standing KamAZ with sand entered, the car is finished, nothing to him. ... yes that I am crucifying. This or specially a person carries such nonsense or just fools.
                      2. Sharansky
                        Sharansky 26 October 2017 19: 12
                        +8
                        Quote: Perun's grandson
                        Did you see the rust directly from the factory with your own eyes or do you judge our cars only by a comedy club?

                        State Department agents probably shot this video?

                        But do not tell me why the whole Russian elite for some reason prefers Mercedes and BMW? Maybe these are manifestations of patriotism?
              2. Krabik
                Krabik 26 October 2017 18: 14
                +3
                There wasn’t enough money for car factories. they were controlled by bandits and sucked money.

                For example, the upholstery of AvtoVAZ was ordered through acquaintances who had no production and they simply overfilled it.
                All this was done through vodka, baths and kickbacks.
                (I worked in such an office)

                The very quality of the products of our automobile industry is simply monstrous, I can just make sure of it using our cars and imported ones.
                Cheap plastic and everything is assembled on snot.
                Painting that flies off after a couple of months.

                In short, the auto industry is squalor.
                1. karabas-barabas
                  karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 18: 33
                  +8
                  When either Birch, or bandits taxied, each Taz brought $ 1000 of winnings and Avtotaz did not suck state money. But under Putin and his effective managers, quality has fallen and the concern itself is operating at a loss and is fed annually by green lard. That's it..
                  1. grandson of Perun
                    grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 18: 54
                    +3
                    Quote: karabas-barabas
                    the concern itself is operating at a loss and is fed annually by green lards

                    An old tale about "swelling", which Russophobes often liked to repeat, but never proved the facts of "swelling".
                    1. True
                      True 30 October 2017 08: 02
                      +2
                      Quote: Perun's grandson
                      An old tale about "swelling", which Russophobes often liked to repeat, but never proved the facts of "swelling".

                      You have already plucked enough tales here.
                  2. Krabik
                    Krabik 26 October 2017 19: 21
                    +5
                    Things are not at all like you are trying to show%)

                    When the bandits drove in the country, there was poverty and a poor and hungry population except the basins could not afford anything.

                    Under Putin, the country came to life and the population began to feel like people.
                    And people in basins and garbage refuse to go;)
                    1. Bersaglieri
                      Bersaglieri 26 October 2017 20: 50
                      +1
                      Absolutely.
                    2. karabas-barabas
                      karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 22: 03
                      +3
                      In the 90s, Lada sold 9ku and Niva even in the west and the quality was an order of magnitude higher. Niva would always be in demand, like an SUV for 10tyrov €. Now build quality has fallen to a critical state. This is a well-known fact, which was repeatedly written in the world profile press. Moreover, the build quality, welds, before the brakes led to the failure of safety tests, where of course all of these grants were tapped. AvtoVAZ would produce cheap and reliable cars, there would always be demand, especially at home.
                      1. Krabik
                        Krabik 26 October 2017 22: 46
                        +1
                        There would be no demand, people began to live better and the requirements for cars changed.
                      2. dokusib
                        dokusib 28 October 2017 09: 59
                        0
                        In the West, not quite those nines and Niva were sold as ours. Strongly not those.
                    3. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 23: 32
                      +3
                      People were led to the massive propaganda "better old foreign car ...", bought imported junk and now ride it with arrogant faces. As if a 15-20 year old foreign car is not at all a basin and rubbish.
                      1. Krabik
                        Krabik 27 October 2017 00: 21
                        +5
                        I had a Mazda Demio small car economy class about 7 years old she was.

                        Just awesome car I'll tell you.

                        Yes, it was cheap and simple to terrible, but made very high quality.

                        If we talk about cleanliness, then all the talk about propaganda is shattered about the quality of our car industry.

                        Who is it that patriotism feed the bandits and scammers who captured AvtoVAZ ?!
                2. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 18: 52
                  +3
                  In fact, the 90s with crime and hyperinflation are long over. Even with the 00s, the situation with the auto industry has changed a lot.
                  Of the VAZ Kalina / Grants, Largus, Vesta and XRay, who has monstrous quality and the paint falls off in a couple of months?
                  And then I look, and I don’t see the lines of our cars on the painting ...
                  So Sharansky blurted out about the "rust from the factory" and immediately into the bushes.
                  1. Krabik
                    Krabik 26 October 2017 19: 12
                    +6
                    I have an Opel with a gun, air conditioning, soft plastic, a turbine of 140 horses and a rotting body.

                    Even the bolts on the wheels do not loosen, before the habit was to tighten the bolts on the Lada%))

                    Do you know where I saw our auto industry ?!
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 26 October 2017 19: 37
                      +5
                      Quote: Krabik
                      Even the bolts on the wheels do not loosen, before the habit was to tighten the bolts on the Lada%))

                      It's just nonsense, I’ve been driving a VAZ all my life, then the bolts don’t loosen on wheels, maybe you mixed up the fiat with the VAZ?
                      Quote: Krabik
                      I have an Opel with a gun, air conditioning, soft plastic, a turbine of 140 horses and a rotting body.

                      Well, it costs "your" Opel eight times more expensive.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Krabik
                        Krabik 27 October 2017 02: 30
                        +5
                        AvtoVAZ Grant from 385 thousand.
                        Opel Astra 935 thousand (not the base).

                        You can’t even imagine what a monstrous difference between these machines;)

                        Although, if you hadn’t suffered from populism and a fanatical admiration for something incomprehensible, you would have gone to the salon and checked these cars for yourself.

                        We looked at what our leadership and deputies are riding and would not write about patriotism here NEVER!

                        Patriotism is a fooling of the local population by Western proteges.
                    2. grandson of Perun
                      grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 20: 40
                      +2
                      I am happy for your Opel.
                      But I’m very interested in your motive for grooving the work of the hands and brains of my compatriots.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Krabik
                        Krabik 27 October 2017 02: 06
                        +2
                        The motive is banal - I am against populism and fooling.
                    3. True
                      True 30 October 2017 08: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: Krabik
                      I have an Opel with a gun, air conditioning, soft plastic, a turbine of 140 horses and a rotting body.

                      I have the same)))))
              3. 210ox
                210ox 26 October 2017 19: 28
                +2
                An article about what? About the automobile industry or Amerz plane ..
                Quote: Perun's grandson
                Quote: 210ox
                Our auto industry? Well, he’s like himself.

                I remember very well how in every clownish program they scambled over our auto industry. Massively and in the most expensive airtime.
                By your logic, our car factories themselves paid for this expensive bacchanalia at a time when they sorely lacked money for modernization.
                However, the more logical and realistic assumption is that the bullying of our car industry was paid by those who eventually squeezed more than 80% of the Russian automobile market.
                1. Krabik
                  Krabik 26 October 2017 20: 06
                  +1
                  Everything is very simple.

                  AvtoVAZ - T-50.
                  F-35 - Ford.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 26 October 2017 23: 48
                    +3
                    I would compare the F-35 with the Honda. Ford is sooner ... Typhoon Eurofighter smile
                    1. Gransasso
                      Gransasso 26 October 2017 23: 59
                      0
                      Ford is also a good car bully
                    2. Krabik
                      Krabik 27 October 2017 00: 24
                      0
                      Honda is Japan, and Japan does not make the F-35;)
                    3. Krasnodar
                      Krasnodar 27 October 2017 13: 51
                      +1
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      I would compare the F-35 with the Honda. Ford is sooner ... Typhoon Eurofighter smile

                      And I would be with Infinity :)
                    4. Soho
                      Soho 31 October 2017 09: 45
                      0
                      I would compare the F-35 with Honda

                      what nonsense?)) F35 is at best Ford SiMax. Family minivan.
                      Honda is a high-speed car, with a sensitive steering wheel and a slim silhouette. To draw a parallel between her and Lightning can only one who does not know either this or that car laughing
                2. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 21: 17
                  +1
                  The article is of course about the plane. But you know, it’s a shame for their compatriots when different Russophobes undeservedly pour mud on them.
                  1. MadCat
                    MadCat 27 October 2017 06: 33
                    +2
                    Quote: Perun's grandson
                    But you know, it’s a shame for their compatriots when different Russophobes undeservedly pour mud on them.

                    Well then, I wish you to ride a fret grant and write this opus on the Elbrus processor. Do not give thanks. laughing
                    1. Krabik
                      Krabik 27 October 2017 16: 53
                      +4
                      Sistemnik on Elbrus for 200 thousand rubles Pentium2 level, even Chubais will shudder at the sight of a possible budget drink;)

                      PS
                      Lada Granta is already a joint product with Renault.
                      Let it ride on the classic 6 models;)
                      1. t7310
                        t7310 27 October 2017 23: 08
                        +5
                        the price of elbrus due to small lots is such an exclusive

                        a chip in security from state spy stuff, this is for our military and state institutions,

                        and the performance is still higher than i5, and this is if at double precision, on the usual intel like, he and i7 do with a margin
                        "Elbrus 8c - 125 gigaflops (double precision, 250 Gflops single). To put it bluntly, its performance is somewhere between the Intel Core i5-2500K (105,6-118 gigaflops) and the Intel Core i7-4930K (130-140 gigaflops). This is to understand what is at stake "
                      2. t7310
                        t7310 28 October 2017 00: 30
                        +4
                        Elbrus for 200 thousand rubles Pentium2 level

                        you probably heard somewhere that elbrus is made in china on the same equipment on which pentiums 2 used to be made and conclusions were drawn, but the fact that they can be done on outdated equipment is only a plus to elbrus
                        halves speed due to double accuracy to reduce the likelihood of errors
                        it loses speed due to the lack of support for the vliw architecture of popular OSs - in order for the OS to run vliw on elbrus it can emulate any architecture that has not even been invented theoretically,
                        as a result, due to these "losses" we get approximately i5 performance, but I guess that was the task so that with all the "losses" it worked like i5, that is, if it were necessary, it would be
                      3. grandson of Perun
                        grandson of Perun 28 October 2017 13: 09
                        0
                        I repeat:
                        It's not about who rides what.
                        The thing is that Russophobes lie to discredit Russian goods.
                        At the same time, Russophobes cover their lies with supposedly noble goals. Allegedly pouring dirt on our products, they care about our safety, competitiveness, etc.
                        A fresh motive for pouring mud allegedly "against fooling" is the height of cynicism after after constant fishing in a lie.
                        That's about Elbrus Pentium2 level lied.
                        What Russophobes for vile people are.
                    2. True
                      True 30 October 2017 08: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: MadCat
                      Well then, I wish you to ride a fret grant and write this opus on the Elbrus processor. Do not give thanks.

                      By the way, they are comparable.))))
                      P.S. but we have beautiful children)))
          2. MadCat
            MadCat 26 October 2017 16: 56
            +2
            Quote: Yuri Zaitsev
            Before you slander our auto industry, look at Wikipedia and check how much time they put on the f-35 wing

            before poop rushing into "our" auto industry, you must understand that this is Renault! laughing
            1. grandson of Perun
              grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 17: 56
              +2
              Quote: MadCat
              before poop rushing into "our" auto industry, you must understand that this is Renault!

              First, the Russians own a little less than half the shares of the AvtoVAZ-Renault-Nissan alliance. The controversy “ours” - “not ours” reminds of a half empty / full glass.
              Secondly, the mass persecution of our car industry has fallen shortly after the ultimatum of our government to foreigners "if you want to sell your cars in Russia, build your car factories in Russia." Such nonrandomness clearly indicates to whom the persecution was beneficial.
              1. Krabik
                Krabik 26 October 2017 18: 16
                0
                There was no bullying.

                This is your imagination;)
                1. grandson of Perun
                  grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 18: 44
                  +4
                  Yes, fantasies. The meme “Russians do not know how to make cars” is the machinations of Kremlin propaganda. And the three above left poop in our cars not out of habit, but purely from "concern for our safety" wink
                  1. Krabik
                    Krabik 26 October 2017 19: 14
                    +2
                    They just traveled in our cars and said that they think about them.

                    There is no bullying, just the truth, which for some reason hurts you ...
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 26 October 2017 19: 39
                      +2
                      Quote: Krabik
                      They just traveled in our cars and said that they think about them.

                      None of them drove our cars, and where did our cars come from in the USA? The warriors just scold everything Russian.
                      Quote: Krabik
                      There is no bullying, just the truth, which for some reason hurts you ...

                      The truth is that the western bolt bucket is no different from the eastern or northern bolt bucket.
                      1. Krabik
                        Krabik 26 October 2017 20: 11
                        +2
                        I drove the Volga 3102,3110.
                        Lada 06,07,09.

                        Mazda Demio.
                        Mitsubishi forgot which one.
                        Opel Astra old and new.

                        And I'm also a fan of tinkering in the car sometimes, I did LLP and minor repairs.

                        As if there is something to compare ...

                        PS
                        The Volga really were nothing, but they were not simple;)
                    2. TOR2
                      TOR2 26 October 2017 23: 34
                      +1
                      Quote: Krabik
                      They just traveled in our cars and said that they think about them. There is no bullying, just the truth, which for some reason hurts you ...
                      The civil sector in our country was not up to par, as it is now. And the proper conclusions from this have not been made so far. If you produce only weapons, and drive the export of raw materials good for the economy, it certainly will not end. Just look at our recent history. This is exactly what should hurt everyone.
                      1. Krabik
                        Krabik 27 October 2017 01: 47
                        +1
                        And which sector was actually developed?

                        Space was catching up, the same stupid cloning of shuttles.

                        Ships and submarines were also able to catch up.

                        Nuclear weapons stolen from the Manhattan project in the states.

                        Electronics was also backward and they bought equipment for the Olympiad 80 over the hill.

                        And in general, what could be expected after 2 wars and the civil war after which the country was led by such guys as Khrushchev and Brezhnev;)

                        (Ukrainians, by the way)
                    3. True
                      True 30 October 2017 08: 57
                      +1
                      Quote: Krabik
                      They just rode our cars and said

                      I call them motokalyaski.
          3. rtutaloe
            rtutaloe April 3 2018 11: 50
            0
            Project F-35 is three different aerodynamics of the aircraft, and even sharpened for different countries. T-50 - one.
        2. Winnie76
          Winnie76 26 October 2017 13: 15
          +5
          Quote: 210ox
          The facts are that these planes bring to mind and they fly.

          Tape the appropriate jet engine to the sofa with electrical tape. I assure you, he will take off.
          Quote: 210ox
          Technologies are being worked out, problems are being eliminated. What do you think that such staff members will not be able to resolve technical issues.

          Problems arose at the design stage. Creating a universal aircraft for everything. Nefigovo so swung. The result is a flying Swiss knife. Dear and unhelpful. Cut the jungle - no way, open canned food - a problem, oiling is not convenient. So the main problems are unsolvable.
          Quote: 210ox
          We have been putting the T50 on the wing for many years now.

          At this stage, Su 35 is enough for the penguin. Where to rush?
          1. True
            True 26 October 2017 16: 21
            +4
            Quote: Winnie76
            At this stage, Su 35 is enough for the penguin. Where to rush?

            And how many galactic powers of these beautiful starships do not enlighten?
            1. KonOnOff
              KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 48
              +2
              And the "zvizdeleta" with the "zvizdelata" only in one-on-one computer toys are fighting ... Entire Systems and People are at war, and not individual "products" ...
          2. SERGUS
            SERGUS 26 October 2017 17: 37
            +6
            Quote: Winnie76
            Creating a universal aircraft for everything. Nefigovo so swung.

            The aircraft is not universal but rather modular, because different modifications of the aircraft differ significantly from each other.
            Quote: Winnie76
            Tape the appropriate jet engine to the sofa with electrical tape. I assure you, he will take off.

            Here you can argue arbitrarily, but time will judge everyone, if, for example, the F-16, Su-27, MiG-29 turned out to be worthy machines, then this operation has shown, so we'll see, and about the F-35 I will say the following, if everything it was so badly, different countries wouldn’t stand in line for it.
            PS The author of the article was very amused by the figure at the beginning: f22 + f35 = Su57. Those. if (in his words) f22 - ... ram and f35 - ... ram, then it turns out ... ram + ... ram = ..., well, at least I thought something.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 26 October 2017 19: 41
              +7
              Quote: SERGUS
              different countries would not come in line for him.

              There is no queue, the US is pushing its penguins to its satellites through political blackmail and coercion.
              1. MadCat
                MadCat 27 October 2017 06: 36
                +1
                Quote: Setrac
                There is no queue, the US is pushing its penguins to its satellites through political blackmail and coercion.

                It is the turn and precisely for the F35, since for anyone who does not want the F35 there are F15 and F18 of the latest modifications.
              2. rtutaloe
                rtutaloe April 3 2018 11: 55
                0
                Ha ha ha The queue is really worth it. Only Australians who sleep and see the F-22 are resisting. But they will see him only in dreams. Therefore, you have to be content with the F-35.
                By the way, they say the other day India again fell in love with Russian fighters, but the last time she left the T-50 project was in favor of the F-35. And India is very difficult to call the US satellite.
            2. KonOnOff
              KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 26
              +4
              Quote: SERGUS
              The aircraft is not universal but rather modular, because different modifications of the aircraft differ significantly from each other.


              And this is one of his conceptually unsolvable problems! Since, in fact, its modularity is based on a single universal concept the airframe and its avionics, which was supposed to be universal and configured with "software", i.e. make a plane with universal hardware, reprogrammable for specific models and tasks. And just with its "software" is one of the main conceptual problems!

              Quote: SERGUS
              and as for the F-35, I’ll say the following that if everything was so badly, different countries would not be in the queue.


              "Causes and effects" do not need to be swapped ... Countries do not get in line with him; their put in the queue of the USA! Incidentally, some have already begun to complain about this ... Scandinavians, for example ...
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 27 October 2017 10: 06
                +1
                Quote: KonOnOff
                Since, in fact, its modularity is based on a single universal concept of the airframe and its avionics

                Well, I don’t agree about the glider, because if we take a modification of horizontal and vertical take-off, the glider there is different in appearance with similarities.
                1. rtutaloe
                  rtutaloe April 3 2018 11: 58
                  0
                  Add to this also a different wing and mass additions to the rotary nozzle of the vertical take-off model. All trim modifications of the F-35 project have significant aerodynamic differences.
        3. max702
          max702 26 October 2017 23: 27
          +1
          Quote: 210ox
          We have been putting the T50 on the wing for many years now. We haven’t even put it into production yet.

          Sound the costs please for the T-50 .. And compare the ones for f-35 .. If we had so much money, then we would have not 200 planes but 2000 .. Yes, but for the years spent on developing nothing critical
          1. Gransasso
            Gransasso 26 October 2017 23: 36
            +4
            Quote: max702
            Please state the costs for the T-50 .. And compare the ones for the f-35 .. If we had so much money, then we would have not 200 aircraft, but 2000 .. D



            The estimated cost of R&D for the su-57 is about 15 yards dollars. At the moment. There are several gliders without a ready engine, without AFAR, without avionics, problems with EPR, without a ready-made nomenclature of weapons .... and with more than foggy prospects ... the series has already been said that there will not be ... so these investments can hardly be amortized ...


            R&D costs for f-35 are about 50 yards of dollars. Which should be divided by 3. In the presence of about 300 already flying aircraft accepted for service. And a series of 2000-2.500 aircraft. About 1000 of which are for export. All investments are amortized more than 40 years in the supply of aircraft and their maintenance.

            Sailors have no questions?
            1. KonOnOff
              KonOnOff 27 October 2017 00: 42
              +6
              Why lie so brazenly ?! belay "We have Internet too!" wink

              The engine of the first stage is ready and it gives out afterburner cruising supersonic. The fact that the second stage engine is not ready yet, so what's the problem? And the existing “engine” creates the necessary traction in order to reach the afterburner cruising supersonic, i.e. he fulfills one of the requirements for a 5th generation fighter.

              "Without AFAR" ?! And where do the legs of these rumors on the Web grow from? AFAR radar for the T-50 has long been ready, and there are already two types of them (not counting the wing in the L-band)! That does not go into series yet, so why launch it into series when the test cycle of the aircraft itself is not finished and it has not yet been put into series?

              "Without avionics" ?! Do you even understand what nonsense you're talking about ?! fool Is he flying on the "cords and heavy" there? Would you first search the entire list of avionics on the Su-57? On the Internet there is a whole list even with indexes and who releases them!

              "Problems with EPR" ?! Well, well, what is the Su-57 EPR? All the people in all military forums stood still, holding their breath ... winked What is your access level and where do we work / serve? laughing

              "Without a ready-made nomenclature of weapons" ?! In fact, if I’m not mistaken, then there are already 11 completely new products under the Su-35 undergoing tests. And each of them at different stages. But nowhere and never reported about it. "So if you don’t see the gopher, it doesn’t mean that he is not there" ...

              "Sailors have no questions?" To you? There is! laughing
            2. max702
              max702 27 October 2017 09: 35
              +1
              Quote: Gransasso

              1
              Gransasso Yesterday, 23:36 ↑
              Quote: max702
              Please state the costs for the T-50 .. And compare the ones for the f-35 .. If we had so much money, then we would have not 200 aircraft, but 2000 .. D



              The estimated cost of R&D for the su-57 is about 15 yards dollars. At the moment. There are several gliders without a ready engine, without AFAR, without avionics, problems with EPR, without a ready-made nomenclature of weapons .... and with more than foggy prospects ... the series has already been said that there will not be ... so these investments can hardly be amortized ...

              Already 15 lard already? GDP claimed 30bn RUBLES! invested (this was when the buck was 30 each) and the investment is still the same .. Total 1.5 billion dollars .. Normally 1.5 and 50 .. I hope the numbers are clear? and don’t need fairy tales of the type we know then .. What we have is that they both overstate and underestimate the costs .. but even if you assume that you didn’t come up with these 15bn, it’s still 3 times less than in the case of f-35 ...
              1. Gransasso
                Gransasso 27 October 2017 10: 01
                0
                Quote: max702
                Already 15 lard already? GDP declared 30 billion rubles! invested (this is when the buck was 30 each) and the investment is still the same .. Total 1.5 billion dollars ..



                Putin could say whatever he liked in 2009 ... the fact that the program is developing an “Indian” version of t-50-12 yards of dollars ... and the Russian version, according to statements, is supposedly more advanced than the Indian one. It means and costs more. So the estimated cost -15 yards. And not tales about 30 yards of rubles. And nothing is ready yet and no one can say when and if it is ready. What they definitely said is that there will be no series .. there will be some kind of piece production.





                Quote: max702
                but even if you assume that you did not come up with these 15 billion, it’s still 3 times less than in the case of f-35 ...



                For these 50 yards, the Americans developed 3 (three) aircraft. F-35 A, B and C. Divide 50 by 3 ....


                Miracles do not happen. In order to get a more or less similar product in the modern world, less or less similar amounts are spent. That in a citizen is in the defense industry.

                Does it cost less to build a stadium or host an Olympics in Russia than in the USA?
                1. max702
                  max702 27 October 2017 21: 20
                  0
                  Putin could say whatever he wanted in 2009 ..
                  Well, somehow it's childish ... an argument in the style of 404 ruins ..[quote = Gransasso] the fact that the development program of the “Indian” version is t-50-12 yards of dollars ... and the Russian version, according to the statements, is supposedly more advanced than the Indian one. It means and costs more. So the estimated cost is 15 yards. But not tales about 30 yards of rubles.
                  Have you ever heard that prices for the domestic market and export nuu are very different?
                  And besides, why the hell are we supposed to develop an aircraft for nothing for the Indians? Do you know capitalism, so let them pay for their Wishlist, and for one ours (exactly t-50) ..
                  Now about [quote = Gransasso]Does it cost less to build a stadium or host an Olympics in Russia than in the USA?[/ Quote]
                  Do you know that an operation to remove appendicitis in Russia costs 20 rubles, and in the US $ 000 ..? And there are no fundamental differences! What then is the difference? And yes, look at the interest rate on loans for construction, production and other long-term projects in the US and Russia .. But why is this so? But this is a completely different conversation, an order of magnitude more global ..
                  1. Krabik
                    Krabik 28 October 2017 00: 03
                    0
                    In Russia, for 20 thousand belly you will be torn with a kitchen knife under general anesthesia from the throat to the pubis.

                    And in the states, using the da Vinci robot, an appendix is ​​taken out through the earlobe and you won’t even notice.

                    And this is a regular appendix.

                    And even among the inhabitants of the USA, even the Negro teeth are all straight, and among the inhabitants of the Russian Federation white Russians have crooked and decayed teeth due to the fact that dentists scoffed at children in childhood.

                    So it turns out that the blacks brought by slaves from Africa live better than we Russians in our country.
                    1. Soho
                      Soho 31 October 2017 09: 48
                      0
                      Krabik October 28, 2017 00:03
                      So it turns out that the blacks brought by slaves from Africa live better than we Russians in our country.

                      you don’t bend so deep, otherwise it’s not equal an hour will break laughing
            3. rtutaloe
              rtutaloe April 3 2018 12: 02
              0
              By the way, about AFAR. The fighter was originally built around it in modern projects. It doesn’t work with AFAR - it’s necessary to modify the T-50 into a maize for spraying fertilizers. ))) Well, as an option. Although, of course, this is a joke.
          2. SERGUS
            SERGUS 27 October 2017 10: 07
            +1
            Quote: max702
            Buck us so much money, then we would have not 200 planes but 2000 ..

            We would have the same number of aircraft and plus four Ulyukaev
            1. max702
              max702 27 October 2017 21: 26
              0
              Quote: SERGUS

              0
              SERGUS Today, 10:07 ↑
              Quote: max702
              Buck us so much money, then we would have not 200 planes but 2000 ..

              We would have the same number of aircraft and plus four Ulyukaev

              Do not tell the US GDP how many times more? I think that the Ulyukaevs could not have done it; helpers are needed, like McCain and Kerry ..
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 28 October 2017 09: 34
                0
                Quote: max702
                I think that the Ulyukaevs could not have done it; helpers are needed, like McCain and Kerry ..

                McCain and Kerry are weak, we have ours - Zakharchenko and Serdyukov wink
        4. KonOnOff
          KonOnOff 27 October 2017 00: 23
          +1
          As the popular saying goes, "you can fix any broken thing if you twist it in your hands long enough."

          The United States simply has no choice but to “bring to mind” the F-35, because the entire line of aircraft that he was supposed to replace is already "sentenced to death." Some of them are already simply impossible to restart in the series, because those technologies and their carriers are lost. And the lines of their assembly have long been dismantled. So the F-35 "bring to mind", neither by washing, so by skating. The only question is how much time and money it will take ...
        5. Soho
          Soho 31 October 2017 09: 37
          +1
          210Qu October 26, 2017 07:58 ↑
          We have been putting the T50 on the wing for many years now.

          another all-crawler ....
          Which year is this? A decade has passed from the take-off of the first X35 prototype to the start of aircraft deliveries to AK. From the first take-off of the T50, 8 years have not yet passed. And this is with a huge difference in project financing. I'm not talking about the fact that the JSF program was launched when you (judging by the level of comments) were not yet born.
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 26 October 2017 11: 02
        +3
        Quote: 73bor
        This is not an underestimation of the facts, about a hundred F-35 just stand at the airfields due to technical problems and lack of staff!

        What are these fairy tales?
        1. Berkut24
          Berkut24 26 October 2017 11: 57
          +7
          What are these fairy tales?

          I understand that I am violating the tenets of your sect by fans of the "all-conquering penguin", but:
          The F-35 program faces a staggering delay in maintenance and the availability of spare parts, which is why aircraft downtime has increased significantly this year, according to the U.S. Accounts Chamber in a new report. The average repair time for the F-35 is 172 days, which is about twice the program’s target, as reported by the Chamber in unpublished test results received by Bloomberg News. The lack of availability of components calls into question the official estimate of the cost of maintenance and operation of the F-35 over a 60-year service life of $ 1,14 trillion. The F-35 Joint Program Office and Lockheed Martin's main contractor have found ways to increase the availability of spare parts “to prevent the deterioration of these problems” as the fleet grows, but the Department of Defense found that “the management’s ability to reduce repair time and wait for spare parts is not clear, according to the House according to Bloomberg News. From 2018 to 2023, the Pentagon will face a deficit of about $ 1,5 billion to secure the F-35 along with “significant risks to its combat readiness”
          1. Sharansky
            Sharansky 26 October 2017 14: 24
            +3
            not tired of copy-paste nonsense?
        2. venik
          venik 26 October 2017 16: 40
          +3
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          What are these fairy tales?

          ========
          This is “not a fairy tale” for you ... They got “a sort of“ unearthly joy ”“ for free ”... Well, so“ sign for receipt ”...... The rest of the problems - this is so high your lads are“ ruining ”... ..
          1. karabas-barabas
            karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 18: 39
            +5
            This is called - undisguised envy, because the Russian Federation and close to such a machine is not planned and already, at the moment, its combat readiness can make any enemy big problems and with each year the fighting potential and the number of F-35 is growing.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 26 October 2017 19: 43
              +3
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              This is called - naked jealousy

              Write an article about the Su-35 or Su-30, write down what they are "bad", then an article about the f35, we are not to blame for the fact that they are so miserable!
              1. karabas-barabas
                karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 22: 13
                +2
                The chances of the Su-35 squadron with their active radars against the F-35 bunch with AWACS are the same as the Serbs MiG-29 at the time, against the Dutch F-16 with the same AWACS, in the latter case none, all Serbian Migi shot down. How can the Su-35 stealthily approach AWACS? No, especially under the protection of interceptors in a passive mode. To successfully defend the Russian Federation, many Su-57 and A-100 aircraft will be needed, that is, be able to receive targets from AWACS and be in passive mode.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 26 October 2017 22: 43
                  +5
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  The chances of a Su-35 squadron with their active radars against the F-35 link with AWACS

                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  To successfully defend the Russian Federation will need a lot of machines such as Su-57 and A-100

                  That is, you know that Russia has its own AWACS aircraft, but for some reason you put the Su-35 without them against the F-35 with Avax?
                  Russia has the Mig-31, which perfectly gives target designation and destroys whoever you want.
                  All this is your speculation. If you have one plane against a hundred enemy ones - as was the case with the Yugoslavs - no avax will help here, the Yugoslavs were crushed by quantity, not quality at all.
                2. KonOnOff
                  KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 05
                  +3
                  Do not carry nonsense! F-35 was originally intended to be used without AWACS. Like the F-22. They, by definition, were supposed to organize a "network-centric combat formation" with the distribution of intelligence functions and other military functions, including percussion.

                  But the fact that the F-35, as a fighter, is complete crap and is unable to withstand even in combat with the Su-35, the Americans themselves recognized this. So the F-35 during the air defense breakthrough, saturated with fighter interceptors, is now (or so far) supposed to be used only in conjunction with the F-22, because raptors "is the last hope for the" penguins "...
                  1. karabas-barabas
                    karabas-barabas 28 October 2017 17: 29
                    +1
                    This is you talking nonsense! AWACS and similar AWACS have always been involved for a long time, in any operations! Not a single interceptor has a 600km radar. Just interceptors in the Stealth mode and in the passive mode and are connected with the AWXC network-centric! The same nonsense, this is supposedly the superiority of the Su-35 over the F-35, which was recognized by the Amer generals. Of course, this does not exclude the operation of individual machines deep into the front. In order to somehow effectively reflect attempts to conquer the US Air Force, you need a couple of hundred Su-57s, a thousand Su-35s and dozens of A-100s. Segonya, of course, is much more modest.
                3. Soho
                  Soho 31 October 2017 09: 56
                  +2
                  The chances of a Su-35 squadron with their active radars against the F-35 link with AWACS

                  hahah, why not add a couple battlekruzers and one death star to the F35 for completeness? lol So F35 you allow to use external target designation, but do not allow Su35?
                  well, yes)))> objectivity? no, I haven’t heard anything like that ... lol
                  1. karabas-barabas
                    karabas-barabas 3 November 2017 05: 33
                    0
                    And stealth, is that so, nonsense for the Su-35 in which the EPR is several M2, when like the F-35 has several SM2? For a long time, NATO has been using such a combination in practice, and in the Russian Federation there is not even much experience. Yes, and the A-50 in the presence of several pieces, this is not the level of modern NATO AWACS.
                    1. Soho
                      Soho 3 November 2017 05: 56
                      0
                      karabas-barabas Today, 05:33 ↑
                      For a long time, NATO has been using such a combination in practice, and in the Russian Federation there is not even much experience.

                      Well, how do you, sir, know which combination of videoconferencing is used and what experience do you have? Are you an OBU officer? Judging by the naivete of the statements, I doubt it.
                      And stealth, this is so, nonsense for the Su-35 in which the EPR is several M2, when like the F-35 several SM2

                      Well, yes, I really thought when the stories about the “invisibility” of the F-35 would begin ... lol
                      the next step will probably be the assertion that the F-35s will be able to shoot down all Su-35s at a range of 120km, even without including their an-apg81 laughing
                      Yes, and the A-50 in the presence of several pieces, this is not the level of modern NATO AWACS.

                      And what are the tasks of the American AWACS? Maybe if you think about it, you won’t blaze so eagerly on the inability of the Russian air defense to give target designation to your interceptors and destroyers? hi
                      1. karabas-barabas
                        karabas-barabas 7 November 2017 05: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Soho
                        Well, how do you, sir, know which combination of videoconferencing is used and what experience do you have? Are you an OBU officer? Judging by the naivete of the statements, I doubt it.

                        Well, and where after the 2nd world episode, in addition to Korea, in Vietnam, the Soviet and especially the Russian Air Force and then the air force could gain experience, conducted air battles and carried out air defense? In Afghanistan, Chechnya? Georgia is not better remembered. Yes, the level and possibilities are already visible from open sources, although I understand military secrecy and all that, but in fact, it's awesome! When do you tell someone about naivety, tell something substantial, besides incomprehensible questions, specific, open your eyes, so to speak!))

                        Quote: Soho
                        And what are the tasks of the American AWACS? Maybe if you think about it, you won’t blaze so eagerly on the inability of the Russian air defense to give target designation to your interceptors and destroyers?

                        A set of words. Tell you why Avax? How was it used? Or is something incomprehensible to you in terms of capabilities? So look for information.
            2. KonOnOff
              KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 14
              +5
              There is no envy. Discussed F-35 and its problems. Of which, in fact, a lot. And some of them are conceptual, i.e. unrecoverable from the word in general. In a good way, it should be redesigned from scratch. But it's too late - no one will dare to do this, even in the USA with their unlimited printing press. So the entire burden of the costs of his fine-tuning the United States shifted to the allies, who "voluntarily-forcibly" push him!
              1. Sharansky
                Sharansky 27 October 2017 13: 47
                +1
                Quote: KonOnOff
                some of them are conceptual, i.e. unremovable from a word in general

                can you give an example, I wonder what exactly cannot be eliminated?
                1. t7310
                  t7310 28 October 2017 10: 02
                  +2
                  lack of a second engine, single-engine circuit, how to fix it?
              2. Krabik
                Krabik 28 October 2017 00: 56
                +1
                For decades, the United States has chosen a strategy to reduce the visibility of its aircraft.

                F-35 is the quintessence of everything that was developed in the United States on aviation.

                The goal was to minimize reflective surfaces and luminosity in the IR range.
                And stuff this technology with electronics for network-centric troops.
                Developers did a lot, even cut the cockpit view to a minimum, counting on the projection of a 3D image in the pilot's helmet.

                This is not just an airplane - it is an advanced complex for conducting military operations as part of a group of troops.

                And all the minuses attributed in the article by the author came from a banal misunderstanding of why this apparatus was made and for what war.

                Well, they didn’t do it for the “dog dump” and he did not need maneuverability.
                And he also doesn’t need a gun.
    2. Gray brother
      Gray brother 26 October 2017 09: 29
      +2
      Quote: dog breeder
      Not a fan of the United States, but underestimate the enemy, the path to defeat. Be wiser!

      And here there are no commanders of the air forces and defense ministers, and those who conduct an assessment of the military potential of a likely enemy for the Moscow Region are not there either.

      So, I permit - burn. laughing
    3. bk316
      bk316 26 October 2017 18: 54
      +7
      but underestimate the enemy, the path to defeat

      You probably won’t believe it, but REVALUING the enemy is the same way. laughing
    4. Setrac
      Setrac 26 October 2017 19: 21
      +3
      Quote: dog breeder
      Not a fan of the United States, but underestimate the enemy, the path to defeat. Be wiser!

      And no one underestimates. US Air Force is very strong, but not thanks to planes like f22 and f35
      1. aiden
        aiden 27 October 2017 04: 17
        +3
        they are strong like the Jews, by deception and bribery. this is where their strength ends
      2. Sharansky
        Sharansky 27 October 2017 13: 48
        +2
        Quote: Setrac
        but not thanks to such aircraft as f22 and f35

        that is, 5 hundred deployed fighters of the 5th generation is a trifle? Russia for all VKS will have even less outdated 4th.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 27 October 2017 16: 04
          +2
          Quote: Sharansky
          that is, 5 hundred deployed fighters of the 5th generation is a trifle?

          No need to interfere, raptors separately, penguins separately. The raptors are not bad, although damp, but no more, and the penguins - they are even far from the average level. Yes, modern electronics gives them advantages, but this same electronics will give exactly the same advantage to any fourth-generation aircraft.
          Quote: Sharansky
          Russia for all VKS will have even less outdated 4th.

          Fourth-generation aircraft and four with pluses form the basis of aviation for "us" and for "them", raptors and penguins do not fight anywhere, but are simply registered in service.
          1. Sharansky
            Sharansky 27 October 2017 16: 58
            +1
            You obviously cannot compare the sizes of the "foundations".
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 27 October 2017 17: 25
              +2
              Quote: Sharansky
              You obviously cannot compare the sizes of the "foundations".

              In this case, the size does not matter, because the Americans are fighting fourth-generation aircraft.
              1. True
                True 30 October 2017 07: 58
                +1
                Quote: Setrac
                In this case, the size does not matter, because fourth-generation planes are fighting with the Americans

                They tell you that they and the 4th generation are more stupid. What size are you talking about?
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 30 October 2017 08: 25
                  0
                  Quote: True
                  They tell you that they and the 4th generation are more stupid. What size are you

                  I’m saying that size doesn’t matter, the throughput of the transport system matters.
        2. Soho
          Soho 31 October 2017 10: 25
          0
          Sharansky October 27, 2017 13:48 ↑
          Quote: Setrac
          but not thanks to such aircraft as f22 and f35
          that is, 5 hundred deployed fighters of the 5th generation is a trifle?

          if we talk about 5th generation aircraft, then there are less than 200 of them in service. And if you mean the F35, then what does the 5th generation have to do with it? Don't get fooled by LM ads hi
  3. Per se.
    Per se. 26 October 2017 06: 29
    23
    Israel buys these planes only because, under the terms of American economic assistance, it must spend it on American weapons. In fact, so many American weapons to Israel simply do not need, and it has to buy goods only nominally for military purposes, for example, food for the military.
    It is hard to believe that Israelis who are tedious and practical, would choose a rotten product, even for free if you can take something better. I am surprised at such a titanic concern in our mass media about the “problem” F-35 ... If it’s really a shit plane, then, on the contrary, you should be happy for our arrogant “friends”, but no, already paranoia on this topic, in care on their "unreasonableness." We, as it were, are hammered into the heads, the VTOL of rubbish, the Americans (and their allies) are fools, and the convertilanes and VTOL of the potential enemy are actively developing, and we all have hi-ha and ha-ha, and ridiculous comparisons of T-50 with F -35, completely different machines, and at different stages of development are. Haya F-35, not his him, but our Yak-141, the very possibility in Russia to return to the development of VTOLT, on which, at one time, the Soviet Union had good experience and prospects. Russia is surrounded from all sides, the world is heading for war, the "partners" are developing a niche in combat aviation that can manage with small take-off areas, generally take off from any holes, and we all giggle. If in June 1941 of the year the Germans achieved air supremacy with one blow, destroying most of our airplanes right on the ground, it is unlikely that many kilometers of runways with all the infrastructure became less vulnerable, with thousands of KR in a preventive strike. Here, a VTOL aircraft niche capable of taking off from a place and from a short run-up is not at all superfluous, as is the theme of equipping the fleet with jet aircraft at UDC and small aircraft-carrying ships. To sum it up, everyone who hews the VTOLP, which is indisputably in need of further development and further evolution of development, either "missed Cossacks" or, worse, want "the best."
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 26 October 2017 09: 08
      13
      The fact that VTOL rubbish understood even before the F-35 began to develop. It’s enough to write nonsense about both the “useful” VTOL and the 41, in which the Germans sought air supremacy not just with one blow, but with a well-organized sequence of attacks, so sooner or later the attack would bring success. Well, those. superiority was undeniable.

      It’s just that war and aviation’s actions have nothing to do with Seljuk’s approach about actions “from any pit”. And the VTOL aircraft will not take off from any pit. Purely technically does not take off.

      And each fucking VTOL aircraft in the troops is minus one normal plane, at least, but in fact even more, since VTOL aircraft are much more complicated and expensive.
      1. Black5Raven
        Black5Raven 26 October 2017 12: 33
        +4
        Quote: EvilLion
        and about the 41st in which the Germans just achieved air supremacy not with one blow, but with a well-organized sequence of raids,

        Only after their first series of strikes and to finish there is not much left. Almost one blow blew up Soviet aircraft in areas near the borders.
      2. Topgun
        Topgun 26 October 2017 23: 47
        +4
        you think in terms of World War II (speed, maneuverability), combat aircraft ceased to be automatic in the hands of the pilot, which is a whole complex of different weapons of electronic warfare communication systems, etc.
        if on simple missiles then absolutely do not care for your maneuverability and speed ...
        it’s hard to imagine what a modern battle will look like, but the advantage will be for the first one to notice and when undetected will remain unnoticed for the enemy as long as possible, drones will be of great importance here (if not the main one) ...
        IMHO
        1. Soho
          Soho 31 October 2017 10: 29
          0
          Topgun October 26, 2017 23:47 p.m.
          if on simple missiles then absolutely do not care for your maneuverability and speed ...

          missiles just do not care lol teach the materiel, namely that affects the range and likelihood of a missile strike. Until this moment, do not write this stupid thing anymore. hi
      3. ventel
        ventel 27 October 2017 22: 03
        0
        Well, tell this to the British, because they fought in the Falklands on harriers against mirages.
    2. The brightest
      The brightest 26 October 2017 12: 31
      +2
      Quote: Per se.
      then weary and practical Israelis would choose rotten goods,

      What is not clear from what is written?
      Israel buys these aircraft only because under the terms of American economic assistance, it should spend it on American weapons.
      1. Negro
        Negro 26 October 2017 14: 13
        +5
        Quote: Lightest
        What is not clear from what is written?

        It is not clear from what world a man writes from whom the Jews bought a weaker plane than Silentigle, for example, only because they have too much American money, they just choke on American money, tears flow.
        1. Sharansky
          Sharansky 26 October 2017 14: 25
          +3
          Or maybe Silentigle is weaker than the F-35?
          1. Negro
            Negro 26 October 2017 15: 46
            +1
            Quote: Sharansky
            maybe just silentig weaker than the F-35?

            I admit.
            Rather, even a penguin is a plane of a different class. A little growler, a little E3, but you can attach bombs too.
            The question is, is this "a little bit" enough for modern warfare. Jews, as I understand it, believe that enough. Jews, on the other hand, are (almost) free, unlike.

            Fly to Iran - see who is right)))
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 26 October 2017 23: 10
            +5
            The Boeing pushed hard Silent Eagle when deciding what to buy to Israel (Super Hornet fell almost immediately).
            And Boeing in Israel has a strong lobby and long-standing ties. But when the Israeli delegation in the United States showed how they see air defense radars and radars of F-35 aircraft and how - other planes, all doubt was lost. The decision of the experts was unanimous.
        2. venik
          venik 26 October 2017 16: 42
          +1
          Quote: Negro
          It’s not clear from what world a man writes, from whom the Jews bought a weaker plane,

          =======
          Oh zohan wei !!! And THEY (in the sense of the Israelis) - HIS (in the sense of F-35) Bought ???? This is a "LAND-LIZ" !!!!
          1. Negro
            Negro 26 October 2017 19: 38
            +2
            LL is also not rubber
    3. Winnie76
      Winnie76 26 October 2017 13: 59
      +2
      Quote: Per se.
      To summarize, all those who want VTOL are unquestionably in need of further development and further evolution, either “mishandled Cossacks,” or, worse, want “the best.”

      Undoubtedly, everyone who is not part of the sect of witnesses Yak 141 is simply a traitor. And still here some ha .. you doubt the ekranoplans, so here they are - the fifth column.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 26 October 2017 14: 24
        0
        Quote: Winnie76
        And here are some ga..ye in ekranoplans doubt, so here they are - the fifth column.
        Yes, there are "ga ..y", where do without them. There was a time, just such people made fun of the first airplanes, now they believed in the obvious. But there is not the obvious, that is, WIG, VTOL, convertible planes, and here again you can approve of the less developed.
    4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 October 2017 16: 20
      +4
      The Germans did NOT achieve air supremacy with one blow. This is perhaps the only case when we have lost a lot of technology but the Germans do not claim to destroy it.
      Where Soviet aircraft disappeared is a very difficult question. There is a persistent feeling that the bulk of the aircraft were faulty and abandoned
      1. karabas-barabas
        karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 19: 15
        +2
        Moscow seems to be defended successfully on British and American machines. In general, a lot of aviation was supplied and assisted in lendlization with production at home.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 26 October 2017 21: 51
          +2
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          Moscow seems to be defended and successfully defended by British and American cars

          As if not, I-16, I-153, Yak-1
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          In general, a lot of aviation was supplied by land-lease

          Yes, not too much, and most of them are Cobras with Hurricanes, that ... aviation. And they helped well with gas, yes
          1. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 27 October 2017 13: 55
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            Moscow seems to be defended and successfully defended by British and American cars

            As if not, I-16, I-153, Yak-1
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            In general, a lot of aviation was supplied by land-lease

            Yes, not too much, and most of them are Cobras with Hurricanes, that ... aviation. And they helped well with gas, yes

            Pokryshkin praised Cobra.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 28 October 2017 10: 53
              +1
              Quote: Krasnodar
              Pokryshkin praised Cobra.

              Because he is an ace :))) The main problem of Cobra was precisely that it did not forgive mistakes in piloting. In general, it was an overly complicated airplane to fly (by the way, one should not think that this opinion was formed due to the low level of Soviet pilots. The Americans thought the same). But in experienced hands - yes, the Cobra was a formidable weapon.
              1. Negro
                Negro 28 October 2017 12: 38
                +1
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Americans thought the same

                Well, the Americans were a little different, after all. They had clearly stronger and more suitable machines for their tactics. Plus, a fundamental decision to abandon Alison. But the USSR had 42-44 cars, uniquely Cobra was not stronger.

                And about the difficulty - the Corsair was also not a gift. They have been enriched, have not gone anywhere.
    5. KonOnOff
      KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 35
      0
      Hmm-ah-ah .... Well, here's how and how you can comment on such a "stream of clouded consciousness" here ?! sad
    6. Pingo
      Pingo 18 March 2018 07: 48
      +1
      in the 6-day war, the Israelis didn’t succeed, they also do not claim anything,
      and where did the Egyptian aviation disappear?
  4. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 26 October 2017 06: 48
    +7
    Watching the project, one gets the impression that somewhere there is obviously a voodoo model F-35 into which pins are periodically stuck.
  5. parma
    parma 26 October 2017 07: 10
    30
    Dear authors, how much can you? Why didn’t the F-35 please you? I can’t find, except for envy, reasons for such watering him with vital products ... When in 4 years he will bomb the next thumbs-yumba in the next **** mill in the amount of a couple of hundred. What are you going to scream? What is our T-50 cooler (if of course he finally completes the state test and goes into series, otherwise he will have to compare the glider and the real plane)?
    By the way, you, for some reason, have already buried a predator, although at the moment it is more alive than the T-50 or SU-57 (whatever you call it, until only a flying glider even without normal engines) and F-35 (released in a huge series with a bunch of sores , but the term is the term, especially a bunch of buyers for years to come). I understand that the site is full of “cheers” -patriots, America is Kaka, they have everything, and our defense industry makes only masterpieces, but unrecognized ... Look at things soberly, yes there is an excellent SU-35 in parts, but even fewer terribly expensive Raptor (and I hope no one will scream that the Raptor is trash). In addition, your favorite comparisons in close-up duels in the dogfight style of Korea or Vietnam somehow do not stretch to the 21st century.
    PS: Sorry, it's boiling. About 4 years I read VO and every 3-4 months it’s the same thing, “FU-35 is FU! Someday the T-50 will fly and will shoot down hundreds of them without refueling!”, I remember about 80 years ago, too, they shouted “And- 16 has no analogues, BT looks like he’s jumping, no one is afraid of us, we’ll beat everyone, they also have them at home, "I hope they didn’t forget how it ends ...
    1. tchoni
      tchoni 26 October 2017 07: 23
      17
      And I will take, and I agree with the author of the previous comment. I also remind you that despite the almost 200 released (and even screaming and STANDING ON ARMED) penguins, none of them have yet crashed (despite the operation by combat pilots). And as for the flight accidents and shortcomings, then everyone is inherent. Although our Su57 was released in 10 flight copies, it even burned once. (And this is what is known about. And how many jambs there are - only the testing team knows ...)
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 27 October 2017 14: 43
        0
        Quote: tchoni
        penguins none of them have yet been crashed

        One burned out.
      2. Soho
        Soho 31 October 2017 10: 38
        +1
        tchoni October 26, 2017 07:23
        Our Su57, although released in 10 flight copies

        every time I am amazed at the craftsmen to compare soft with warm belay the absurdity does not reach you that you just compared a combat aircraft in terms of the number of emergency situations with test samples (essentially prototypes)! Test samples, Karl! Combat aircraft! ehehehe, where are we going .... belay
    2. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 26 October 2017 07: 28
      12
      Most do not call F-35 outright rubbish, do not distort and likewise procrastinate with this argument. Personally, I have a lot of questions about the constant flaws in this line, and this is just what officially had the recklessness to break free from officials. A model with such "sores of children's growth" is simply unacceptable luxury for the army, even for an army with an unlimited money bag.
      To make it more understandable to you at the level of the layman, I got rid of a car of a certain foreign brand that was quite common with us (even though it was an assembly of some pretty pathos foreign country) as soon as a heap of operational and technical problems fell in. But due to the need to recapture the invested funds, the USA with the F-35 project can no longer do this - behind the Capitol, there is nowhere to retreat. And even more so, the other NATO air forces do not have much choice. The United States was stifled by European developments, but it was not possible to set up a plane that would suit everyone. It is in this regard that the F-35 is called a "misunderstanding."

      ps And about the bombing of "all sorts of thumbs-yumba" ... so you can hammer nails with a microscope.
      1. ZVO
        ZVO 26 October 2017 08: 23
        10
        Quote: g1washntwn
        Personally, I have a lot of questions about the constant flaws in this line, and this is just what officially had the recklessness to break free from officials.


        You just need to understand that that level of publicity of the F-35 is unattainable for our understanding ...
        We simply do not know what is happening with the Su-57 (PAK-FA).
        And we learned about the ignition of the engine only because of this. what happened during the demonstration of the Indian commission. If they hadn’t published it, the scandal would have been inflated even more ....

        We learn about all the problems of fine-tuning Soviet / Russian aircraft only from memoirs.
        After 50-60 years.
        This is our secrecy.

        Problems and their quantity, their level will always be the same for the technology of one technological level.

        The most simplified example.
        There are many drivers who always praise their car immensely. And that it doesn’t break even with them, and there is no fuel, and is generally more reliable. And he is a great driver.
        And only at a certain moment, when he accidentally "raises" he can tell you that he bought both new diffs and a new chaldex, and that he already has 30 fines for the year, and that the Chinese bumpers are G ... and that the tinting artists are such hack-workers that they can’t pick up high-quality paint, that his roof has a slightly different shade ...
        Is the analogy clear?
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 26 October 2017 08: 47
          +3
          And doesn’t it seem to you that even for information that accidentally erupted from the "silence zone", the F-35 has more problems than the test (not even pre-production!) T-50?
          It is all about a different technological approach and the way in which equipment gets into combat units. If the Americans are satisfied with the approach when, for the sake of the contract, combat technicians are handed equipment with a lot of problems (maybe God bless the Fed press, we’ll knock out money and grind everything as a result of jumping by numbers after Mk.), Then put the prototype into operation in our conditions completely "impossible at all."
          1. ZVO
            ZVO 26 October 2017 09: 46
            12
            Quote: g1washntwn
            And doesn’t it seem to you that even for information that accidentally erupted from the "silence zone", the F-35 has more problems than the test (not even pre-production!) T-50?


            But can you understand that neither you, nor we, nor the press - no one except a narrow circle of people knows about the number of problems that arise in the T-50?
            You just don’t know about it.
            In this regard, there is simply a vacuum.
            But you think that this vacuum is the absence of problems for the aircraft, not understanding. that this vacuum is actually the work of "1 department" ...
            1. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 26 October 2017 10: 00
              +5
              You are mistaken. Once again and especially for you:
              T-50 (Su-57) at the stage of prototypes
              F-35 in three official versions, put into service in 7 countries
              Do you need to explain what a "prototype", "serial product" and the meaning of the word "defects" are?
      2. karabas-barabas
        karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 19: 55
        +1
        Most “jambs” are either an ancient button accordion, or rumors, or introducing the next development of a node, not because the old one was with “jambs”, but because it is better. There were problems, of course, and still will be, here and there .., but only we would have these problems. Incidentally, it’s a trifle, but the Penguins have been practicing tactical applications for a long time, which is not done on airplanes with “permanent incomplete operations,” with all three types of land and water. The most seeded type of American weapon-Penguin, in my opinion, is currently the most dangerous for the RF Armed Forces. The S-300 will not protect, the S-400 is not enough, and whether it helps .., the Russian Air Force against the US Air Force .. there’s even nothing to discuss. In order to confront the Penguins, who, in turn, will be escorted by the Raptors, who will be given AWACSA targets for 500+ km, so that the Penguins and Raptors fly in passive mode (this is how NATO works) + 2 thousand 4th generation aircraft, which are also not rubbish, VKS The Russian Federation will need under 500 Su-57 (to 1000 Su-35) and dozens of A-100, the ability to replenish losses. Then it will be possible to repel a massive American or NATO air attack on two fronts more than once in order to force the enemy to retreat in the air, and therefore provide protection to ground forces. Of course, it is said that there is no money in the Russian Federation .., well, this is how you look, if you take into account that under 300 lard greens are poked every year in panamas, I’m not sure that there isn’t .. But this is generally such a conversation, on the one hand it’s a tension of relations, with on the other hand, in the West, Russia is generally not a topic at all, sometimes they will say something about it on the news, and no one can imagine wars or even exacerbations of any kind. Even the Poles and those are not soaring too much and spit on the bickering between Warsaw and Moscow. They are more concerned about not letting Chechens and any Muslim refugees into Poland, and the Khokhlov are not very happy. They only went uphill, and then those .. In general, if the Russian Armed Forces do not invade any Baltic states, then it would be absurd to expect an attack from the west on the territory of the Russian Federation, as if they would not get angry at the top. And this is somehow unlikely in my opinion. But the fact that articles and discussions on the topic of potential databases against the United States, or the West in general, especially in Russia are so fucked up is certainly an unhealthy topic. This should not be in my opinion, there should be a visa-free travel from Lisbon to Vladik. not talking about the database.
        1. KonOnOff
          KonOnOff 27 October 2017 02: 01
          +5
          All this nonsense is leveled by one abbreviation: MRYAU - massive nuclear missile strike. As long as Russia has nuclear weapons, all other scenarios of the war with it are simply hypothetical philosophizing. Even if Russia invades the Baltic states (which will not happen - why should it do something for us? And for what purpose? What will it benefit from this?), The answer will only be the strengthening of sanctions and information war, which, again, will be focused on only one goal: to promote American influence and their products on international markets.

          The whole purpose of the American "rattling arms" comes down to only three things: strategic political influence, access to resources and market control. All!
          1. karabas-barabas
            karabas-barabas 3 November 2017 05: 44
            0
            Quote: KonOnOff
            All this nonsense is leveled by one abbreviation: МРЯУ - a massive nuclear missile strike

            This is really nonsense. The flight time of the American, British, French nuclear weapons is a few minutes. As soon as the first ICBM goes to launch, there will be only a few minutes left until the complete destruction of essentially all of Russia, with the entire population, children, women who launched the nuclear war. How much time will there take off in such a time and hit the target? Everything in Europe ?? Your knowledge and worldview from the parallel world of Zvezda channel and the newspaper Tomorrow have little with reality.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 3 November 2017 06: 37
              +8
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              The flight time of the American, British, French nuclear weapons is a few minutes.

              Already strong.
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              How much time will there take off in such a time and hit the target?

              Everything will have time to take off. They themselves are safe, it’s exactly what’s happening in the places where they started.
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              Your knowledge and worldview from a parallel world ...

              Say it while standing in front of the mirror.

              PS: Do you live in Ambulance, nothing (check box)?
    3. EvilLion
      EvilLion 26 October 2017 09: 09
      +2
      Yes, we are still celebrating the ending of May 9.

      while only a flying glider even without normal engines


      A competency level of zero has been detected.
    4. Winnie76
      Winnie76 26 October 2017 14: 15
      +6
      Quote: parma
      Why didn’t the F-35 please you? Besides envy, I can’t find reasons for such watering of his vital products ...

      This is not watering, this is a statement. Air superiority, he will not conquer in principle. (there is F22 for this). It is inconvenient to bomb from it (it will not take many bombs inside, the radius is small. Ф15е makes it like a turtle for a god.). To support the troops, too, does not channel (the warthog is clearly steeper, drones are no worse). Like a deck - no better than F18.
      Well, what's the point? What to envy?
      1. parma
        parma 26 October 2017 14: 26
        0
        unification, but it is not 100% but there is, which simplifies the supply in any military conflict, especially the unification with allies! The fact that many bombs will not be taken away inside, there is also an external suspension (although it is lost + in the form of invisibility, but it can also bomb like a stealth and like an ordinary drummer). With the A-10 it’s more difficult, you really can’t replace it with anything at the moment, but only the Russian Federation and the USA have attack aircraft as a class (or rather, the entire former union has it, but it remained dry in the Russian Federation, which means ours is Su-25)! And we, too, the Su-25 are living out their lives, they just shout on TV that the duckling (Su-34) can do anything, but this is not so. He will not be able to return home without half a wing ..
      2. Sharansky
        Sharansky 26 October 2017 14: 30
        +6
        Quote: Winnie76
        Air superiority, he will not conquer in principle. (there is F22 for this).

        in exercises F-35 makes both F-15 and F-18 and F-16 like blind kittens. In most cases, the 4th generation does not even see where the rocket is flying from. In general, the same thing happens as when the 4th generation appeared and what it did with the 3rd.
        Quote: Winnie76
        It is inconvenient to bomb from it (it will not take many bombs inside, the radius is small. Ф15е makes it like a turtle for a god.).

        You certainly know better from the sofa about amenities. But their combat radius is the same.
        Quote: Winnie76
        To support the troops, too, does not channel (the warthog is clearly steeper, drones are no worse).

        The warthog is clearly required to be placed under fire from MANPADS and SAMs of short range. F-35 no.
        Quote: Winnie76
        Like a deck - no better than F18.

        F-35 combat radius is twice as high, according to avionics even nothing to compare. The previous generation is resting.
        1. Winnie76
          Winnie76 26 October 2017 15: 34
          +4
          Quote: Sharansky
          in exercises F-35 makes both F-15 and F-18 and F-16 like blind kittens. In most cases, the 4th generation does not even see where the rocket is flying from. In general, the same thing happens as when the 4th generation appeared and what it did with the 3rd.

          Share a link? Where does infa come from?
          Quote: Sharansky
          You certainly know better from the sofa about amenities. But their combat radius is the same.

          Well, OK. The number of suspension points. f35 -4 (external nekomilfo), f15 -9. Radius f35a -1080, f15 -1270, combat load f-35 9100 kg, f15 11000kg. Hence the conclusion. In stealth mode, the F35 loses a lot to the F15 in all respects. And in the version with external suspension, what for it is generally needed.
          Quote: Sharansky
          The warthog is clearly required to be placed under fire from MANPADS and SAMs of short range. F-35 no.

          When fired from the ground, ceteris paribus A10 can survive - f35 - not a tenant.
          Quote: Sharansky
          F-35 combat radius is twice as high, according to avionics even nothing to compare. The previous generation is resting.

          The radius of the English wiki says the opposite. According to avionics - arguing is stupid.
          1. Sharansky
            Sharansky 27 October 2017 12: 13
            +1
            Quote: Winnie76
            Share a link? Where does infa come from?

            I quote
            the American fighter almost completely defeated the French at Dassault Rafale and the British at Eurofighter Typhoon. The score was 18: 0 against the Rafales and 19: 1 against the Eurofighter Typhoon. The American F-15E fighter-bombers F-35 aircraft won with a score of 16: 1.
            https://naked-science.ru/article/tech/f-35-pokaza
            l-na-ucheniyah-polnoe
            Quote: Winnie76
            In stealth mode, the F35 loses much to the F15 in all respects

            in stealth mode, the F-35 realizes its main advantage - stealth and the most powerful avionics.
            Quote: Winnie76
            combat load f-35 9100 kg, f15 11000 kg.

            About that and speech, easy the fighter is almost equal in range and combat load to the F-15E and surpasses the heavy Su-34.
            Quote: Winnie76
            And in the version with external suspension, what for it is generally needed.

            Finish ground targets after an air defense breakthrough. This is the essence of multifunctionality. And what for do you think the external suspension on the Su-57?
            Quote: Winnie76
            The radius of the English wiki says the opposite. According to avionics - arguing is stupid.

            the combat radius of the F-35C is 1111km, the combat radius of the most powerful F-18E is 726km. Not twice, I was mistaken, but much more. And about the avionics is silly to argue. 5th generation vs 4th.
            1. Negro
              Negro 27 October 2017 19: 39
              +1
              Quote: Sharansky
              American fighter almost completely defeated the French at Dassault Rafale and the British at Eurofighter Typhoon

              Hm. Somehow it seems that a mistake, a mountain of money to the wind and overkill is a Raptor, not a penguin)))
    5. KonOnOff
      KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 40
      +4
      And you do not boil, and read the report to Congress (Senate) of the USA! On the web, somewhere in the form of a PDF file in English. This is the Americans themselves spread rot! Moreover, the commission, which regularly reports on its problems to senators and congressmen! In that report, which walked through military forums, there will be enough material for 60-70 (+/-) such articles (according to the number of unresolved problems of the F-35 - list-wise)!
  6. First iron-faced
    First iron-faced 26 October 2017 08: 38
    0
    F-22 in the end, without too much noise was written off to the scrap.

    Wow! ... There would be someone with whom at one time he would fight for air superiority, the F-15 / -16 could handle it. And now, in my opinion, their improvement has been postponed due to their low target priority, multifunctional drummers are easier to use. IMHO.
    1. First iron-faced
      First iron-faced 26 October 2017 09: 21
      +1
      Yes, and the F-35 is essentially three aircraft in one, that’s another problem! And the decision must be issued in a complex, and not separately.
      1. KonOnOff
        KonOnOff 27 October 2017 01: 41
        +2
        ... and this is it conceptual unsolvable a problem!
  7. Engineer
    Engineer 26 October 2017 08: 39
    +7
    Pretty populist article. F-22 has long been in service. F-35 is coming in all. But our 22 + 35 is not in the army. And, through the efforts of all sorts of Kudrins, etc., it is not a fact that they will arrive there soon. And we do not have a direct competitor to the F-35, even in the future it is not expected.
  8. Grayish
    Grayish 26 October 2017 08: 48
    +5
    They will finish it. Let it be mediocre, not a masterpiece. But there will be hundreds of them. And when will our LFI appear? And how many will be? MiG-35, a controversial aircraft, in the amount of 50 pieces are going to make. Equivalently? SU-35 then compared with the "Raptor" compared, now with this. SU-57 is already being compared. They recalled the MiG-31. The situation is no better than in 2005.
  9. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 26 October 2017 09: 17
    +1
    Dear, you look when development began 35 and how much time has passed. 5 generation is not done on the knee ... this time, and there’s no getting away from it, whether it’s good or bad, we can’t judge, only a person can say about it, a pilot who flies a certain number of hours, and with regard to combat qualities, God forbid that he doesn’t take part in battles, it’s such a bit of a pacifist attack ... don’t forget about the size of their military budgets and ours ... and su-57 will bring to mind, for some reason I'm sure of it
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. parma
    parma 26 October 2017 09: 32
    +5
    Quote: EvilLion
    Yes, we are still celebrating the ending of May 9.

    while only a flying glider even without normal engines


    A competency level of zero has been detected.

    Excuse me, did I miss something and put the planned engines on the T-50 (not the ones on the SU-35)? Or maybe finally dopilili new RDB and RDD? Well, at least he participated in a trial use of weapons? Maybe I don’t know something? Enlighten, I'm a power engineer by profession, and not the designer of the Sukhoi Design Bureau or a test pilot ...
  12. chidoryan
    chidoryan 26 October 2017 09: 47
    10
    Well, everything flies badly, and the helmet of the neck breaks, and it’s bad for pilots, fingers pin, isn’t it funny? The mattresses already have 2 fifth-generation fighters in the ranks, whether we want it or not. Children's diseases are childhood diseases, given the level of economic, scientific and industrial potentials, Americans will clearly cure them over time. But what we have with the Su-57, it’s not clear at all, just some foolishness and bravado statements about having no analogues.
    1. g1washntwn
      g1washntwn 26 October 2017 10: 59
      +7
      Hanging on-board electronics, problems with protection against static, catapults and almost unconscious pilots. Although, what am I talking about, these are such "trifles" in modern aerial combat .........
      1. Negro
        Negro 26 October 2017 14: 34
        +3
        Quote: g1washntwn
        Although, what am I talking about, these are such "trifles" in modern aerial combat .........

        What's the problem? Fascists native Texas bomb while pilots with a helmet fighting?

        Yes, the plane is wildly complicated. Yes, a mountain of problems. But these are other problems.

        There are clearly more problems on my smartphone than on a 10 year old Nokia
  13. viktorch
    viktorch 26 October 2017 09: 51
    +7
    wow ha ha, is this an order such a 35ku to litter?
    the passage about f22 pleased, it's just Py, they wrote it off to the scrap, yeah
    but nothing that our T50 has so far grown up to the raptor, even in the form of a prototype, take an interest in the latest modernizations of the raptor, you will learn a lot of new things.
    F35 is so bad, I wonder how, once it flies, and there are rockets for it, and there are many of them already, and there will be even more, and we can’t see a comparable machine, that's all, we would have such a bad fighter.
    1. chidoryan
      chidoryan 26 October 2017 10: 02
      +2
      and where to read about modernization? In Russian it is desirable.
      1. viktorch
        viktorch 26 October 2017 11: 21
        0
        in Russian there is nothing about the Raptor’s raptor, only google English articles,
        in principle, it’s understandable that we still have prototypes that don’t fly on our engines, but we’re already upgrading it, it’s kind of outdated, plus there’s not much information, nobody is going to sell the raptor to anyone, so they don’t advertise it as 35ku.
  14. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov 26 October 2017 10: 05
    13
    Potentially, the Su-57 should have been a pretty decent car. However, today we hear only about a dozen flight prototypes. And the latter took off literally a month and two ago. It was reported that he was "completing the pilot batch, after which the pre-production release of the aircraft should begin, followed by pilot operation in the Air Force." PJSC UAC is talking about the start of the transfer to the military of an installation party of 12 fighters in the 2019 year. I am not strong in the Russian aircraft newspeak and I do not understand the difference between the "pre-production release" and the "installation party". I will assume that this is one and the same.
    Conclusion: the possible time for adopting a fighter into service is the beginning of the 2020's, although it cannot be excluded that it will be moved closer to the middle of the next decade. In other words, good Su-57 will appear in the troops through 5, and then all 7 years.
    This is despite the fact that bad F-35 has been flying confidently for almost two and a half hundreds, they are already running around in the troops and flying over 100 thousand hours. It was during these flights that its shortcomings were revealed, which are carefully studied and gradually eliminated.
    By the way, guarantees that during the flight tests of the Su-57 will not reveal their problems will not give anyone and only on the scrapers and needle files will not have enough money. I'm not saying that a lot of time and effort is spent on scraping and grinding ...
    I suggest everyone to be patient and wait for visible practical results, leaving aside empty disputes like "Who is stronger than an elephant or whale?".
    1. Vard
      Vard 26 October 2017 10: 30
      +5
      I don’t mind ... 35 a normal plane ... only one question ... what does it do that planes of previous releases cannot do ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Winnie76
          Winnie76 26 October 2017 14: 25
          +1
          Quote: Großer Feldherr
          stealth, as a pleasant and useful bonus

          This applies only to the x-range and certain angles. Radars are developing rapidly. And the cost of this "bonus" is prohibitive
          1. Großer feldherr
            Großer feldherr 26 October 2017 16: 08
            +2
            Let them develop for themselves, but it's hard to go against physics.
            It is in the centimeter wavelength that the vast majority of modern and promising radars work, and this will continue for a very long time ... and then something else will be invented to replace the "stealth".
  15. novel66
    novel66 26 October 2017 10: 19
    +8
    I’m waiting, I won’t wait, when the F-35 will be engaged in an attack instead of the A-10, I want to look like a horror
    1. Krabik
      Krabik 29 October 2017 16: 13
      0
      The approach to attack aircraft has changed.

      Now the troops are saturated with air defense systems, and it’s so simple to shoot enemy troops on a wanderer is extremely difficult.

      Americans for these needs began to use:
      1) General Atomics MQ-1C Gray Eagle 90 pieces with barrage over the battlefield
      2) MQ-1 Predator 360 pieces with barrage over the battlefield
      3) mines with wings
      4) missiles like "Tomahawk" also with barrage over the battlefield

      If air defense is suppressed, you can drive a flying fortress with a cannon there.
      But this IMHO is already a perversion of the times of the Vietnam War.

      And of course, all the above can cause the infantry and highlight the target.

      But a good nuclear explosion over the battlefield will be able to solve all the issues with our lag in these areas%)
  16. Just a man
    Just a man 26 October 2017 10: 32
    +9
    There is such a concept in the work of special services - distraction to an unusable object. Briefly about this in the topic of 5th generation aircraft. Americans have f35, and thank God, let them gamble and PR. Of all the declared properties of the 5th generation aircraft, the allegedly invisibility and faith in the fantastic capabilities of the AFAR remained unchallenged and unchained to the end. In a private conversation, one person from the su 57 development support group said that this aircraft already today produces characteristics that are inaccessible to American ones. But the question is different. He said that su 57 most likely will not be much, but su 35 (s, m, or np - no difference) the order will be increased. As in that advertisement, and if the result is the same, why pay more. The trick is that the first test results from our ROFAR system showed results that were unthinkable even for developers. In a quiet, but in intense accelerated mode, this miracle is being created now. Research of the 1st stage and part of the 2-stage studies have confirmed all the characteristics and the creation of the lights is proceeding at a faster pace. According to the plan in 2019 serial production. Installing it on the su 35 gives an unconditional advantage over everyone else. The Americans have already sniffed this situation, therefore, in September this year, in a closed meeting, the chairman of the committee of chiefs of staff of the United States said that by 2020-2022, with the advent of modernized su and mig from rofar in Russia, all aircraft of the us park can safely be immediately scrapped. In general, something like this.
    1. chidoryan
      chidoryan 26 October 2017 10: 51
      +9
      I was secretly told by one grandmother on the bench that our planes are the most technologically advanced, and our fifth generation (which for the time being there) is the fifth of all fifths. Yeah. What kind of instant noodles?
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 26 October 2017 14: 36
        +3
        Quote: chidoryan
        Yeah. What kind of instant noodles

        Stealth f-35 operates in the frequency range of 3 cm. In decimeter ranges, F-35 is as stealthy as everyone else. IMHO it’s much easier for us to make another radar than an inconspicuous aircraft. What actually is practiced on the T-50.
        1. karabas-barabas
          karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 20: 31
          +3
          It’s naive thinking that they say, and if you make such a wavelength, and twist it there .. They do it all as much as possible, but there is such a thing as TTX, the target detection distance is as much as M2 EPR. The claimed 300 km for the C300 are valid for aircraft in a couple of tens to several m2 of ESR, respectively, an aircraft with an ESR of 0,00 ... M, or in several SMs it will see the S-300 at a closer distance, I'm afraid of dangerously close distance for itself. For this, F-22, F-35, B-2 were created.
    2. sgrabik
      sgrabik 26 October 2017 13: 47
      +1
      Indeed, there is such a new development, now undergoing a stage of experimental - design testing, the so-called Struna radar, after it is installed on our aircraft, all invisibility will be visible on the screens of this new radar, as if in the palm of your hand.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 26 October 2017 14: 03
        +1
        Quote: Just a human
        In a private conversation, one person from the development support group su 57 said that

        It was necessary to start with this, so as not to waste time reading silly things!
    3. Negro
      Negro 26 October 2017 16: 09
      +4
      Quote: Just a human
      The trick is that the first results of testing with us ROFAR systems showed unthinkable even for developers

      I have always been surprised by people who suggest that the best electronics specialists in the world are not in Paula Alto, not in Tel Aviv and not even in Shanghai, but in Zhukovsky (well, at least not in Omsk) for 50 (albeit 250) thousand . rub. month


      A well-known in liberal circles, A. Movchan recently described how unbearably difficult it is to live in Russia with a family of 3 people per 1 million rubles / month. Just to tears
      1. bk316
        bk316 26 October 2017 19: 24
        +6
        I have always been surprised by people who suggest that the best electronics specialists in the world are not in Paula Alto, not in Tel Aviv and not even in Shanghai, but in Zhukovsky (well, at least not in Omsk) for 50 (albeit 250) thousand . rub. month

        I will not say about electronics, I will say about programmers.
        I was always surprised that the best programmers are not Americans at all (I didn’t think about it, I know for sure) but Russians, Chinese, Indians. Well, think for yourself, the material and technical base is better in the USA, salaries are higher in the USA, more interesting projects are in the USA, and programmers are worse.
        What was the matter of understanding when MIT teachers came to us for exchange (in the 90s), I finally understood when I met several Microsoft employees. Americans are even capable and smart don't want to programthey don’t want to be coders, analysts, architects they want to be managers.
        As a result, the standard software development team looks like this: the leader and his deputy are Americans, the architect is Russian, the senior programmer is Russian, the Russian coder and Chinese testers are Chinese and Hindu.
        Now it’s clear why ROFAR will be made with us?
        1. Negro
          Negro 26 October 2017 19: 44
          +1
          Quote: bk316
          Now it’s clear why ROFAR will be made with us?

          Quote: bk316
          the head and his deputy are Americans



          Quote: bk316
          Americans, even capable and smart, do not want to program; they do not want to be coders, analysts, architects; they want to be managers.

          It's funny that the Valley is located in the United States. Apparently due to the climate.
          1. bk316
            bk316 26 October 2017 21: 26
            +4
            It's funny that the Valley is located in the United States. Apparently due to the climate.

            This is not funny, it is natural, a Russian programmer wants and can work in a Russian, American, European, Chinese (as well as a Chinese programmer) company. HERE THE AMERICAN MANAGER WANTS AND CAN ONLY IN THE AMERICAN. Therefore, such a team can only form in the United States, the whole point is that such a team is not necessary for the production of software. That’s why GOOGLE is NOT IN THE VALLEY
          2. Krasnodar
            Krasnodar 27 October 2017 14: 19
            0
            Quote: Negro
            Quote: bk316
            Now it’s clear why ROFAR will be made with us?

            Quote: bk316
            the head and his deputy are Americans



            Quote: bk316
            Americans, even capable and smart, do not want to program; they do not want to be coders, analysts, architects; they want to be managers.

            It's funny that the Valley is located in the United States. Apparently due to the climate.

            Soon they will transfer to Ust - Labinsk. There, the climate is close to California, and the best programmers in the world from Slavyansk to the Kuban and Anapa will not even have to change their place of residence.
          3. Soho
            Soho 8 November 2017 05: 44
            0
            It's funny that the Valley is located in the United States. Apparently due to the climate.

            there is nothing funny and even more so strange about it. And if you think that this is somehow connected with the natural genius of Americans in the field of high technology, then you are deeply mistaken
        2. Krabik
          Krabik 30 October 2017 10: 43
          0
          Even if we assume that they can do something with us, and not stupidly steal.
          Although I VERY doubt that.

          And our engineers are the first to do something like ROFAR, then I assure you that this ROFAR will go on exhibitions for decades.
          But with amers, he will appear faster on production aircraft;)
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 26 October 2017 20: 01
        +3
        Quote: Negro
        I have always been surprised by people who suggest that the best electronics specialists in the world are not in Paula Alto, not in Tel Aviv and not even in Shanghai, but in Zhukovsky (well, at least not in Omsk) for 50 (albeit 250) thousand . rub. month

        In Paula Alto, Tel Aviv and Shanghai, there are the best marketers in the world who promote finished products, they do not relate to the development of this very electronics.
        1. Negro
          Negro 26 October 2017 21: 24
          +2
          Quote: Setrac
          In Paula Alto, Tel Aviv and Shanghai, there are the best marketers in the world who promote finished products, they do not relate to the development of this very electronics.

          High-tech exports, WB data.

          In addition, you did not understand the main idea. It’s hard for me to expect that the best radio electronics specialists in the world are working at NIIP named after Tikhomirova. For a very long series of reasons.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 26 October 2017 21: 26
            +1
            Quote: Negro
            In addition, you did not understand the main idea.

            But how do you understand her if you do not express her? Sculpt all some tables, incomprehensible comparisons.
            Just say your thoughts in words to make it clearer.
            1. Negro
              Negro 26 October 2017 22: 14
              +2
              Quote: bk316
              Therefore, such a team can only form in the United States, the whole point is that such a team is not necessary for the production of software.

              However, the main high-tech companies are US residents.
              Quote: bk316
              That’s why GOOGLE is NOT IN THE VALLEY

              Moved from Mountain View? And where, if not a secret?
              Quote: Setrac
              Just say your thoughts in words to make it clearer.

              Much more understandable.
              Firstly. The topic ROFAR is forced, as I understand it, by Rostec and KRET, while the radar for the Su-57 is made by Almaz-Antey and the aforementioned NIIP them. Tikhomirova.
              Secondly, the user’s statement. Just a person assumes that KRET or NIIP employees know their business much better than Northrop Grumman employees. There are some doubts about this, even of a purely statistical nature. Not so many Russian breakthrough technologies in the field of electrical engineering are recalled, especially in recent years 40.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac 26 October 2017 22: 47
                +4
                Quote: Negro
                Not so many Russian breakthrough technologies in the field of electrical engineering are recalled, especially in recent years 40.

                Are you kidding?
                On our planet, the last twenty years of progress are only due to the fact that the West has gained access to the Soviet legacy, to Soviet fundamental research and technical developments, and you “can’t remember”, call any thing - and you will find a Soviet trace in it.
                1. Negro
                  Negro 26 October 2017 23: 24
                  +2
                  In front of you is most likely a monitor. Most likely, LCD.
                  Go.
                  I warn you. Radar is not an idea, but a product. That is, references to basic research will not work.
                  Worse than that. We do not need a “Soviet trace”. We need the whole radar. KRET under sanctions, Almaz-Antey too. That is, absolutely all elemental base should be Russian.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac 26 October 2017 23: 30
                    +2
                    Quote: Negro
                    In front of you is most likely a monitor. Most likely, LCD.

                    Which without the Mir space station would not have been born at all.
                    Quote: Negro
                    I warn you. Radar is not an idea, but a product. That is, references to basic research will not work.

                    Radar is practically pure science - physics and mathematics, this spoon and bowl can be made without science, and radar - no.
                    This is your vaunted F-35, the direct heir to the Yak-141, and stealth technologies were completely torn apart by the Russians and invented by Russian scientists.
                    1. Negro
                      Negro 26 October 2017 23: 50
                      +2
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Which without the Mir space station would not have been born at all.

                      About this level of ownership of the material I expected.
                      You are right, without the Mir station, launched in 86th, Sharp couldn’t release a color LCD in 87th. Also, by the XXVII Congress of the CPSU, the Japanese tried to guess, but did not have time. Losers.
                      Quote: Setrac
                      Radar is almost pure science - physics and mathematics

                      Pure science - these scientific publications, you know (there’s one more pain, India can’t catch up anymore, it would bypass Brazil). A fighter radar is such a thing that needs dozens, and usually hundreds of suppliers of components and equipment. And not left over from Soviet times, but the most modern.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 27 October 2017 00: 04
                        0
                        Quote: Negro
                        Pure science - these scientific publications, you know (there’s one more pain, India can’t catch up anymore, it would bypass Brazil).

                        And it’s never so much to get to the USA, it’s so important to know how hard rock affects the psyche of worms in your ass.
                      2. Negro
                        Negro 27 October 2017 00: 21
                        +2
                        Quote: Setrac
                        And never go up to the USA

                        This of course yes.

                        Worse not to climb to Australia. There are 35 universities of the first thousand Times rating (6 in the first hundred), here - 24 (Moscow State University - 188th, the first non-Moscow university - KFU - in the fifth hundred). There are 1,5 times more publications. The population is 6 times less.

                        By the way, about "catching up and overtaking Portugal." This, in general, succeeded - both the top universities and the peer-reviewed publications there are 3,5 times less than in Russia. The population, however, is 15 times less, the nominal value of GDP is 6. There are two large cities.
                    2. voyaka uh
                      voyaka uh 27 October 2017 00: 17
                      +3
                      "Radar is a practically pure science - physics and mathematics" ////

                      Radar is an electronic device. AFAR, in particular, consists of several hundred (or thousands) of elements. Each costs a few thousand dollars.
                      And they must be able to be constructed very small in size and assembled also very compactly. Otherwise it will not fit in the nose of the aircraft.
                      And here no physicists and mathematicians will help. Therefore, none of the Russian fighters have AFAR yet.
                      1. Setrac
                        Setrac 27 October 2017 00: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: voyaka uh
                        And here no physicists and mathematicians will help.

                        Everything is exactly the opposite, physics and mathematics without AFAR will cost perfectly, but AFAR without mathematics and physics - no.
                  2. Topgun
                    Topgun 27 October 2017 00: 17
                    +1
                    you now resemble Don Quixote struggling with windmills ...
                    people just believe that now, an “unmatched” “wunder-waffle” will appear almost from scratch, simply because everyone knows that Russia has the best programmers in the world ... don't bother them ...
                    I think that all the fuss with ROFAR is dust in the eyes to hide the problems with AFAR, as a result, after 5-10 years of "bringing to mind" and "preparation for serial production", someone will fly to London ...
  17. parma
    parma 26 October 2017 11: 01
    +2
    Quote: Just a man
    There is such a concept in the work of special services - distraction to an unusable object. Briefly about this in the topic of 5th generation aircraft. Americans have f35, and thank God, let them gamble and PR. Of all the declared properties of the 5th generation aircraft, the allegedly invisibility and faith in the fantastic capabilities of the AFAR remained unchallenged and unchained to the end. In a private conversation, one person from the su 57 development support group said that this aircraft already today produces characteristics that are inaccessible to American ones. But the question is different. He said that su 57 most likely will not be much, but su 35 (s, m, or np - no difference) the order will be increased. As in that advertisement, and if the result is the same, why pay more. The trick is that the first test results from our ROFAR system showed results that were unthinkable even for developers. In a quiet, but in intense accelerated mode, this miracle is being created now. Research of the 1st stage and part of the 2-stage studies have confirmed all the characteristics and the creation of the lights is proceeding at a faster pace. According to the plan in 2019 serial production. Installing it on the su 35 gives an unconditional advantage over everyone else. The Americans have already sniffed this situation, therefore, in September this year, in a closed meeting, the chairman of the committee of chiefs of staff of the United States said that by 2020-2022, with the advent of modernized su and mig from rofar in Russia, all aircraft of the us park can safely be immediately scrapped. In general, something like this.

    Do you have data from a closed (i.e. secret) meeting of chiefs of staff? Whoa whoa! Yes, you old spy! And apparently when registering (or rather visiting), VO give access to secrets, because such things (such intelligence work) are declassified years later (about the copying and customization of a Taiwan-made American-made V-B rocket brought in the belly by a fighter) it became known to the public I think in the 80s) ..
    Attention: JOKE: And what characteristics are inaccessible? An incredibly large number of errors / malfunctions? Maybe a small range or speed? And, I know, I know, mass-dimensions !!! For fun, the data can be preferably published, and confirmed not only by the manufacturer and the local Ministry of Defense, otherwise the Chinese also have everything super, even move for the J-11 (as I think they called the Su-27 local) already the resource does not lag behind ours, but apparently there are not enough capacities, so we are buying.
    1. sgrabik
      sgrabik 26 October 2017 13: 59
      +4
      It’s not necessary to make nonsense, Chinese aircraft engines in terms of their resource characteristics are significantly behind, at times and just because of this, the Chinese are buying our engines in large quantities, and because of the lack of capacity in China, this is generally stupid, just from the Chinese with production facilities there are no problems, but with the production technologies of high-quality aircraft engines are still preserved.
      1. parma
        parma 26 October 2017 14: 29
        0
        Sorry, it was sarcasm, read the comment completely and carefully ... This is exactly what I meant - the Chinese are shouting about the reliability of their copy, but they still buy engines from us ...
  18. SMP
    SMP 26 October 2017 11: 03
    0
    It is a pity that I am not at all familiar with aerodynamics, and it was possible to discuss this way.
  19. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ 26 October 2017 11: 11
    10
    Not dozens - hundreds of billions of dollars - have been successfully mastered as part of creating projects that are unique in their stupidity.

    You can not read further.
  20. Tsoy
    Tsoy 26 October 2017 11: 22
    +3
    That feeling when it was enough to read the first paragraph, to understand here it is the great revelation of the best aviation expert. B-1, B-2 and for some reason F-23. And the fact that the F-22 appeared before the Lancer is the juice. Author stop.
  21. viktorch
    viktorch 26 October 2017 11: 24
    +4
    everything is good except that the T50 is an unfinished analogue of f22, for the poor,
    There are no analogues of f35 in Russia and is not expected, nothing is heard about the heel.

    in short, you can calm down and lift nanotechnology further from your knees, but do not forget to buy the latest iPhones.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 26 October 2017 20: 07
      +3
      Quote: viktorch
      There are no analogues of f35 in Russia and is not expected, nothing is heard about the heel.

      Do not need. The Americans sucked the parameters of the fifth generation from the finger, twenty-first, but this does not mean that we must follow their errors.
      1. viktorch
        viktorch 27 October 2017 00: 03
        +1
        yes inappropriately, t50 we don’t need the same thing, think of a raptor hack, raptor parameters are sucked out of the finger.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 27 October 2017 00: 12
          +1
          Quote: viktorch
          yes inappropriately, t50 we don’t need the same thing, think of a raptor craft

          T50 is the development of Su27 and is not connected with the raptor in any way, but I’m sure that you know it, you just don’t have to pretend to be a fool here, otherwise you will remain so.
          1. viktorch
            viktorch 27 October 2017 09: 54
            +1
            Wow, T50 is in no way connected with f22? and why did you decide so ??? one grandmother said?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 27 October 2017 10: 14
              +1
              Quote: viktorch
              Wow, T50 is in no way connected with f22? and why did you decide so ???

              Because I am the ruler of the universe, my word is the law.
              1. viktorch
                viktorch 27 October 2017 12: 05
                0
                swap America and Russia, do a good deed.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 27 October 2017 12: 31
                  0
                  Quote: viktorch
                  swap America and Russia, do a good deed.

                  What are the commands below? Mortals did not give a word!
                2. Negro
                  Negro 27 October 2017 19: 43
                  0
                  Quote: viktorch
                  swap America and Russia

                  Conceived to give the Russian sodomites? You have already left for you.
  22. fider
    fider 26 October 2017 12: 08
    0
    Foreign press
    The Daily Beast: Russia uses US companies to steal US military technology

    > "Russia uses not only spies to steal secrets - sometimes ordinary American businessmen are engaged in this dirty work," writes The Daily Beast.

    “The sentencing of two women in a Brooklyn federal court last week put an end to a lengthy criminal drama in which they helped their boss Alexander Fishenko secretly transport military technology to Russia,” journalist Katie Zavadsky said. Prosecutors even noticed "a striking coincidence between the fluctuations in [his company's] gross revenues and the defense spending of the Russian Federation over the past few years," according to court documents.

    "Fishenko owned Arc Electronics, a company registered in Houston, Texas, which falsely claimed to be a manufacturer of traffic lights, while actually exporting high-tech products like microelectronics, according to the indictment. Fishenko was also a co-owner of a Moscow-based microelectronics company Russian army and intelligence services, "the article says.

    "The types of technology that Arc transferred to Russia could be used for military radars and tracking systems and even for missile guidance systems, according to prosecutors. For 10 years, the company received more than $ 50 million for sending these" sensitive "technologies directly to Russian suppliers intelligence, "the author writes.

    “Many of these high-tech goods are not produced inside Russia,” prosecutors said after the sentencing of Fishenko.

    Fishenko’s case began between the exposure of a network of 11 Russian spies - the “illegal immigrants program” - and the arrest of a spy who worked for a Russian bank in New York, the newspaper notes.

    "Fishenko pleaded guilty a few days before the trial and was sentenced to 10 years in prison and the return of $ 500 thousand of illegal proceeds. But in an appeal to the judge before sentencing, he stated that he was a patriot, not a Russian spy," - writes Zavadski, noting that the judge was not touched.

    Last week, Fishenko’s sales team received milder sentences. After a detailed account of their cooperation with the investigation, health situation and family circumstances, Judge Sterling Johnson sentenced both to release under supervision, the article says.

    Inopressa.ru
    1. aiden
      aiden 27 October 2017 04: 31
      +2
      look who's Talking. and by what methods we exported everything in 90. including you
  23. parma
    parma 26 October 2017 13: 32
    +1
    Quote: Lightest
    Quote: Per se.
    then weary and practical Israelis would choose rotten goods,

    What is not clear from what is written?
    Israel buys these aircraft only because under the terms of American economic assistance, it should spend it on American weapons.

    If it is not needed, but they definitely need to spend money on something and their mountains, why not just replace the old F-15s and F-16s with new versions I (and even those I that are easy to replace, the glider isn’t the newest one already)? Why not replace the huge fleet of M-113 refrigerators with strikers? (Yes, a little better, but still), not replace Apaches with the latest versions? Cobras also do not update? Anyway, better than clogging unnecessary stew warehouses.
  24. Livonetc
    Livonetc 26 October 2017 13: 53
    0

    Photo Max Sryabin
    1. viktorch
      viktorch 26 October 2017 15: 47
      0
      is it in syria? combat break-in?
      1. Uryukc
        Uryukc 26 October 2017 22: 03
        +1
        Yeah combat break-in during the harsh Syrian winter))
        1. viktorch
          viktorch 27 October 2017 00: 03
          0
          it was sarcasm
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. grandson of Perun
    grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 16: 31
    +1
    Quote: True
    This or specially a person carries such nonsense or just fools.

    You, as a person who positions himself as smart, can you explain who led and financed the persecution of our car industry?
    Very expensive bullying, by the way!
    When huge amounts of money are spent on discrediting, it would not hurt a smart person to think: WHO is profitable, WHO will receive dividends from this.
    Just don’t try to blurt out that the numerous jesters from TV shows and trolls from the forums did it out of “concern for our security” (according to them) and that they generally have their own opinion, and do not fulfill the order.
    1. karabas-barabas
      karabas-barabas 26 October 2017 20: 47
      +1
      What bullying ?? Without success, even with cheap but high-quality cars on world markets, neither super advertising nor bullying will fix anything. And the quality of the VAZ fell below the plinth, the technology of the level of the end of the 80s of Korean cars, and safety in general is a separate, unpleasant topic. Renault is guilty, you see, even in Romania Dacha Renault did not hurt, success on the face, cars from 7000 €. Even in the 90s, when the VAZ did not understand who owned it, each car brought $ 1000 of income, and from zero gold the plant became unprofitable and the quality fell. Because they are stupidly stealing what is being allocated to specialists from the state for modernization.
      1. grandson of Perun
        grandson of Perun 27 October 2017 00: 01
        +1
        Quote: karabas-barabas
        Even in the 90s, when the VAZ did not understand who owned it, each car brought $ 1000 of income, and from zero gold the plant became unprofitable and the quality fell

        You have serious logic flaws:
        In the nineties during hyperinflation, when any production with a long capital turnover was unprofitable, VAZ for some reason was highly profitable and had $ 1000 profit from each car.
        But at zero with a hundredfold reduction in inflation and economic recovery, VAZ suddenly became unprofitable and demanded mythical "swells".

        Explain this paradox. After all, you yourself categorically deny both harassment (information warfare) and dumping with junk (economic warfare).
  27. MadCat
    MadCat 26 October 2017 16: 51
    +6
    the further the release of SU57 is pushed back, the more such nonsense about the “flightless penguin” F35, even the fact that the aircraft is in a large series and flew over 100000 hours without a single lossDon't stop these "experts."
    And the plane came out extremely interesting. Both the engine and the electronic all-round visibility system ...
  28. Gust
    Gust 26 October 2017 17: 13
    0
    Everything is tip-top there. The Jews finish it after the purchase and he can quite successfully later fight on the theater.
    But in itself, as a 35 three-in-one plane, it could not be successful. Strongly inferior to the Raptor, he had to become a compromise, a workhorse, inexpensive and universal. It turned out as always ... I hope the Su-57 is finished with all the comments on the penguin and raptor;))
  29. Yak28
    Yak28 26 October 2017 18: 00
    +3
    Instead of finally building several hundred PAK FAs, it’s better to laugh at the F-35, a 5th generation airplane is already outdated, you need to do 6, but our designers will put an outdated T-50 PAK FA series in a series that has nozzles like the SU-27 , will glow on enemy radars over vast distances.
    1. Krabik
      Krabik 29 October 2017 16: 26
      +1
      If in a few years the SU-57 goes into production, it will be a breakthrough in our aircraft industry, but I VERY doubt it.

      No prerequisites of the SU-57 series are observed in the near future.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Setrac
    Setrac 26 October 2017 20: 28
    +2
    Quote: Krabik
    I drove the Volga 3102,3110.
    Lada 06,07,09.
    Mazda Demio.
    Mitsubishi forgot which one.
    Opel Astra old and new.

    Well, no one argues that Soviet cars were not very good, but now there is no difference between cars in the same price segment from different countries. And even the quality of the Soviet one is a controversial issue, it may be inferior to leaders such as Germany and Japan, but the Soviet auto industry was quite up to the mark and exported to other countries.
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 21: 07
      +2
      Quote: Setrac
      And even the quality of the Soviet one is a controversial issue, it may be inferior to leaders such as Germany and Japan, but the Soviet auto industry was quite up to the mark and exported to other countries.

      With correct comparisons I did not concede wink
      But Russophobes did compare cars of different classes and different costs. After all, budget Lads were not compared with other budget ones, but with a more expensive business class such as Mercedes.
      Above, Krabik wrote about his Opel with air conditioning and automatic transmission. In Soviet times, such bells and whistles were only on expensive foreign cars.
      Well, the fact that in the 90s our auto industry did not develop, but simply survived, it wasn’t his fault, but “reformers” like Gaidar and Chubais sad
      1. Krabik
        Krabik 28 October 2017 04: 11
        0
        I wrote to you above that I drove Soviet-class business-class cars - these are 3102 and 3110 and drove the management on them.

        And they were much better than the Lada.

        But as soon as they gave the opportunity, the leadership waved the Volga to the Hyundai;)

        And the Volga certainly did not go to any comparison with the Volkswagen or BMW or Mercedes.

        Regarding Gaidar and Chubais, there is also an interesting point.
        All of them were party communists, as well as Zyuganov or Zhirinovsky.
        And as soon as everything crackled at the seams, they changed their shoes in the air.

        Zyuganov merged the CPSU and organized the Communist Party, while Chubais did not think twice about his party of liberals.

        So Chubais is our leadership, what it was and what it is now!
    2. Krabik
      Krabik 28 October 2017 04: 05
      0
      If we talk about now, it should be noted that the entire car industry rested in a wagon train.

      Partially left are the areas of old factories with equipment imported and imported by the same management.
      Our workers and that is not all.

      That is, in fact, in modern Russia there is no car industry.
  32. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 26 October 2017 20: 46
    +2
    "... F-22 were eventually written off as waste ..." -And in Elmendorf, near Anchorage, what is based, for example? Teach a materiel, for a start.
  33. grandson of Perun
    grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 20: 59
    +2
    Quote: Sharansky
    State Department agents probably shot this video?

    But do not tell me why the whole Russian elite for some reason prefers Mercedes and BMW? Maybe these are manifestations of patriotism?

    Well, the truth pops up.
    It turns out that rust is not directly from the factory, but after 3 thousand mileage, that is, after several years of operation. And off-road operation.
    We chop the truth further.
    Judging by one car about the entire auto industry is at least stupid. You don't look like a stupid person. So, deliberately discredit our auto industry.
    And what about without an imaginary lack of patriotism.
    The top officials of almost all countries drive executive cars. Question: What luxury cars produced in Russia do you offer them to drive?
    Have you heard about the Tuple project? The backfill question: why didn’t the “patriots” start the “Tuple” project? We would drive further on Mercedes.
  34. Gransasso
    Gransasso 26 October 2017 21: 04
    0
    Quote: Perun's grandson
    It turns out that rust is not directly from the factory, but after 3 thousand mileage, that is, after several years of operation.



    3000 km for a car is a FEW years of operation ??? belay
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 21: 28
      +1
      Quote: Gransasso
      3000 km for a car is a FEW years of operation ???

      And how many?
      It is unlikely that that UAZ-Patriot was operated in a taxi.
      1. Kibb
        Kibb 26 October 2017 22: 29
        0
        I understand everything, and the fact that you are a patriot, and the fact that the UAZ Patriot, but 3000 km, is just a break-in.
      2. MadCat
        MadCat 27 October 2017 00: 05
        +1
        Quote: Perun's grandson
        And how many?
        It is unlikely that that UAZ-Patriot was operated in a taxi.

        you can immediately see the horseless theorist, the annual average mileage is 20000.
  35. TOR2
    TOR2 26 October 2017 22: 37
    +2
    It comes to mysticism. Over the past few months, the US Air Force recorded a significant surge in "physiological episodes."
    Yes, no mysticism. It’s just that the “episode” of the cabin erodes for a long time.
  36. grandson of Perun
    grandson of Perun 26 October 2017 23: 45
    +1
    Quote: Krabik
    And now closer to the point, why are you protecting AvtoVAZ ?!

    I have already voiced my motive above: it offends me when Russophobes pour mud on my compatriotsall the more watered undeservedly.
    Now I would like to know about your motive to pour mud on my compatriots, all the more undeservedly.
    1. Krabik
      Krabik 28 October 2017 01: 20
      0
      Astronauts receiving a huge salary were silent about the technique on which they fly.
      Nobody listened to the military and they used what they give.

      I used different techniques and am free to express my point of view about industry.

      So, our equipment has always been of poor quality and, last but not least, the manufacturer was thinking about driver comfort.

      And again, I repeat, there is no reason to make faces and distort reality.

      ----------------------------------------

      And I will answer your comments below about AvtoVAZ-Renault.
      Yes, the quality has improved significantly after the acquisition by Renault AvtoVAZ.

      But this is no longer Russian, and especially not Soviet equipment.
      Everything that is there was designed and manufactured by Renault and implemented in the Russian Federation for the production of consumer goods in our market.
  37. Krasnodar
    Krasnodar 27 October 2017 00: 41
    0
    We will see him in battle - talk. So far, I see the reasons for criticizing this aircraft in the Russian Federation in the following - amers already have the second production aircraft of the 5th generation, and we still have a dozen prototypes. But we are better than the States, therefore ...
  38. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 27 October 2017 07: 13
    +1
    Again, no facts, except 20 cases of failure of oxygen systems in 20 years. But the verbal obser ...

    Regardless of the aircraft itself, the article has no semantic load ..
  39. chidoryan
    chidoryan 27 October 2017 08: 37
    +3
    why didn’t they write about it?

    "The exercises took place in April 2017. The fourth-generation aircraft became the opponents of the F-35 Lightning II, and the result was disastrous for the Europeans. The air duel with Rafale ended with a defeat of 18: 0 in favor of the American, and Eurofighter Typhoon, which is in service with almost all European powers," blew "even larger - 19: 0."
  40. arkadiyssk
    arkadiyssk 27 October 2017 09: 53
    0
    Quote: KonOnOff
    Is this about the F-35? So he flies only on limited modes, and not at nominal (declared in TTT and TTZ). Precisely so that planes and pilots are not killed! By any criterion declared TTT and TTZ "penguin" has not yet come out!

    F-35 flies just the same according to the declared characteristics. It is designed to replace the F-16 firing pin because the same technical requirements are imposed on it - 2 bombs 2 missiles and overload with such weapons 7g. It has the ability to fly 9g, but it is now really blocked due to problems with the bypass valves of the fuel system. Amer has a solution, but everything will be corrected only in a year, not earlier.
  41. ZVO
    ZVO 27 October 2017 10: 30
    0
    Setrac,

    Quote: Setrac
    Quote: voyaka uh
    And here no physicists and mathematicians will help.

    Everything is exactly the opposite, physics and mathematics without AFAR will cost perfectly, but AFAR without mathematics and physics - no.


    AFAR cannot be built without technologists and technological base ...
    What is the use of Giordano Bruno if the topic of using the rotation of the Earth could be realized for practical purposes only in the 18th century ...
  42. grandson of Perun
    grandson of Perun 27 October 2017 11: 13
    +1
    Quote: Krabik
    Who is it that patriotism feed the bandits and scammers who captured AvtoVAZ ?!

    Alliance AvtoVAZ-Renault-Nissan captured the French and Japanese bandits and scammers? fool
    Still not tired of twisting a worn-out record 20-25 years ago, denying the obvious and making smart people laugh? lol
    Quote: Krabik
    If we talk about cleanliness, then all the talk about propaganda is shattered about the quality of our car industry.

    Well, finally tell us about the quality of Largus, Vesta and X-Ray. And then you tell all the mossy horror stories. wink
  43. Wolka
    Wolka 27 October 2017 14: 49
    0
    You can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of this "sparrow" as long as it is not shot ...
  44. Protos
    Protos 27 October 2017 15: 59
    0
    Quote: master1
    An article from a series of what Americans are fools and their vehicles are crappy.

    An article from the series about the fact that "cut" is an international term laughing
  45. Protos
    Protos 27 October 2017 16: 03
    0
    Quote: Yak28
    Instead of finally building several hundred PAK FAs, it’s better to laugh at the F-35, a 5th generation airplane is already outdated, you need to do 6, but our designers will put an outdated T-50 PAK FA series in a series that has nozzles like the SU-27 , will glow on enemy radars over vast distances.

    What the hell ?!
    In hybrid / civil wars both for export and 4 ++ are good! laughing
  46. complete zero
    complete zero 27 October 2017 19: 40
    0
    Of course, I will be wildly happy ... when the fifth-generation fighter "gets on the wing" in Russia ... but for now there’s NO thing to talk about ... and f 22 and f 35 are long-time serial fighters
  47. complete zero
    complete zero 27 October 2017 19: 46
    0
    Quote: Winnie76
    Quote: xetai9977
    Not tired of blackening the F-35? Immediately there is an analogy with women-gossips on the bench.

    In this case, the VO has nothing but gossip. Why not.
    Perhaps the penguin is actually much better than we think. He is so insanely intelligent and megafunctional. And by the number of pages of code, he will probably surpass War and Peace. Only here it costs a little somehow. Moreover, the price for some reason is considered without taking into account the engine, a kosher magic helmet, etc. Strange, right?
    Well and still a nuance. I don’t recall such publications about F16, F 15, F18 or F 22. With all the wow-cheers, patriotism is considered to be serious fighters.
    Ps carlocopp can't lie wassat

    it can and of course is a little expensive ("tsuki steal") .. that's just their budget allows them to raise the price .... and we (God forbid) that would allow us to at least create an industrial party of our "fives" in the stated time frame ... yes so that you and I are "not the last ... to eat up" -that is then we laugh dear
  48. Mih1974
    Mih1974 27 October 2017 21: 39
    +1
    Krabik,
    Just when you drive three IIIs at your Opel, be sure to sell it, otherwise go broke on spare parts (I guarantee this to you) fool
    1. Krabik
      Krabik 28 October 2017 01: 35
      0
      If they gave guarantees, then they would have long gone financially and morally into a deep minus;)

      Yes, the equipment breaks down and spare parts are much more expensive than for basins.

      But it breaks very rarely and requires almost no care.

      I bought a beaten Mazda Demio for 6 years, exploited it for 5 years and sold it.
      Of the repair, only the beaten wing, which was dented before me and the load on the left front wheel.

      There was also an Opel Astra 2 years old, also rode about 5 years on it, the robot died on it and the money to fix it took a third of the cost of the car itself.

      Only I drove comfortably on this car and did not pull the legs and handles at every start from the traffic light.
      For convenience I paid.

      Further, the new Opel Astra in 2011, still rides completely in my operation, is in perfect condition and has never broken!

      Basins, on the other hand, constantly demanded minor self-care, a carburetor cleaning and all small things.
      I carried a tool with me just in case, now in the trunk there is only a balloon wrench and a spare wheel;)
  49. complete zero
    complete zero 27 October 2017 23: 29
    0
    Quote: Mih1974
    Krabik,
    Just when you drive three IIIs at your Opel, be sure to sell it, otherwise go broke on spare parts (I guarantee this to you) fool

    I’ve been operating a foreign car for five years (Peugeot 206) .. on consumables no more expensive than our “classmates” (2110, viburnum.priora, etc.) .. still not ruined
  50. MadCat
    MadCat 28 October 2017 09: 31
    0
    Quote: t7310
    and the performance is still higher than i5, and this is if at double precision, on the usual intel like, he and i7 do with a margin
    "Elbrus 8c - 125 gigaflops (double precision, 250 Gflops single). To put it bluntly, its performance is somewhere between the Intel Core i5-2500K (105,6-118 gigaflops) and the Intel Core i7-4930K (130-140 gigaflops). This is to understand what is at stake "

    come on, tell tales to you, Elbrus does not corny support a huge number of instructions, and you even understand very little what software emulation is and how much the processor loses in speed. It can most likely be called a coprocessor for some highly specialized tasks, and in the same Windows, only your grandchildren will wait for it to work, under Unix there are no necessary software packages and even those that require programmer optimization and do not work after automatic compilation laughing
    1. MadCat
      MadCat 28 October 2017 09: 48
      0
      The total performance of all four cores of the Elbrus-4C processor, operating at 800 MHz, approximately corresponds to that of the dual-core Intel Atom D2500 at a slightly more than twice the frequency (1866 MHz), in any case with the nature of the load that the tested us programs. However, in everyday life, single-threaded tasks usually prevail, and therefore many slow cores will give the user the impression of a less responsive system.

      8s is corny more cores, draw conclusions ...
      https://geektimes.ru/post/270390/#p7zip
    2. Krabik
      Krabik 28 October 2017 13: 00
      0
      I could not answer t7310, I will answer you.

      All these gigaflops and horseradish get using the processor as a numerical grinder on a specially optimized code to obtain gigantic values.

      In real applications on a personal computer, the Elbrus brake processor of the last century.
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 29 October 2017 03: 31
        0
        Quote: Krabik
        All these gigaflops and horseradish get using the processor as a numerical grinder on a specially optimized code to obtain gigantic values.

        that's it, I’m already tired of writing “corny” since corny people don’t understand what they’re talking about, and even a mug with a brick will not be able to help this miracle laughing