Military Review

“Let down our villages and our cities”

54
Despite the military talents of Vladimir Vsevolodovich and his ability to be a zealous master, the end of the reign of Grand Duke Vsevolod Yaroslavich was marked by new wars and troubles caused by princely ambitions and pride. The beginning of the reign of Svyatopolk Izyaslavich was also marked by a fierce war with the Polovtsy and the internecine battle of Svyatoslavich with Vladimir Monomakh for the Chernigov inheritance.


At this time, new rogue princes came to the military-political arena: the son of Smolensk Prince Igor Davyd and the children of the poisoned Rostislav - Rurik, Volodar and Vasilko. Davyd and Volodar seized Tmutarakan, expelling the grand princer from there. Meanwhile, the power in the Byzantine Empire changed: the throne was seized by the cunning and unprincipled Alex Comnenus. He summoned from Rhodes the exiled Russian Prince Oleg Svyatoslavich, elevated him to influence Russian affairs with his help. Oleg pleaded vassal of the Constantinople throne, for which he received ships and soldiers. Oleg suddenly appeared in Tmutarakan, drove out the self-styled princes Davyd and Volodar.

The expelled Davyd Igorevich embarked on the path of outright robbery - he plundered the trade city of Oleshje at the mouth of the Dnieper, where Greek and Russian merchants traded. And Rurik, Volodar and Vasilko Rostislavich decided on a major operation - they decided to take their “father” Vladimir-Volynsky, their father ruled there, they were born there. They arrived when Yaropolk Izyaslavich, who was sitting there, departed for Kiev, and took the city. Grand Prince Vsevolod sent to restore order Monomakh. Rostislavich did not accept the fight and ran away.

The Grand Duke tried to reassure the rogue princes, gave them inheritances. Davyd Igorevich gave Dorogobuzh in Volyn. Rostislavich gave the rich Carpathian cities - Przemysl, Cherven and Terebovl. Restored the rights of Svyatoslav's sons, Davyd gave way to Smolensk, for Oleg recognized the rights to Tmutarakan. True, this did not calm the princes. Davyd tried to grab something else. And Oleg in Tmutarakan, under the auspices of Byzantium, considered himself invulnerable, with the Grand Duke was not considered. His Greek wife even patronized herself as the “Archon of Rus”.

Meanwhile, Yaropolk Izyaslavich, to whom the Grand Duke helped to bring back Volyn, did not even think to be grateful. He considered himself worthy of the best. Yaropolk, heir to the Grand Duke Izyaslav, considered himself deprived. Vsevolod and Vladimir Monomakh took for themselves the best cities - Kiev, Chernigov and Pereyaslavl. His mother Gertrude of Poland, the former Grand Duchess, weaving intrigues, had good connections in the West. Yaropolk Izyaslavich contacted the Polish king Vladislav. He agreed to help. Made a slender plan. At first Yaropolk was supposed to raise a rebellion and secede from Russia, to become a vassal of the Roman throne, and the pope proclaimed him king of Volyn. Yaropolk already had relevant experience: during the expulsion of his father Izyaslav from Kiev in 1073, they fled to the West to go to Pope Gregory VII, who supported Izyaslav and Yaropolk, recognizing him as his vassals. The pope crowned Yaropolk with the royal crown in Rome and granted him the linen of the holy throne of the Russian kingdom (the pope's bull of 17 on April 1075), according to which power in Kiev was to belong to Izyaslav and his son Yaropolk. After the creation of the Volyn kingdom - the vassal of the papal throne, Rome and Poland were to help Yaropolk seize the rest of Russia. It seemed real. In Novgorod, Yaropolk's brother, Svyatopolk, was already sitting, and the sons of Izyaslav had a powerful boyar party in Kiev itself, where the boyars and the usury merchant remembered the gracious rule of Grand Prince Izyaslav.

Yaropolk began to prepare for the separation, to recruit additional troops. However, Vsevolod and Vladimir Monomakh had their own people in Volyn. Dali borrow in Kiev. The Grand Duke immediately sent his son to the Volyn land. Monomakh was traveling light, with one horse guards. He called in the squads of Davyd Igorevich and Rostislavich, who were at enmity with Yaropolk. Yaropolk did not dare to take the fight, ordered the cities to hold on, left the family and fled to Poland. Cities did not resist, surrendered without a fight. Monomakh captured the family of the rebel and his treasury. And Yaropolk abroad received no help. Vladislav I was not a strong and authoritative ruler and fully complied with the dictatorship of a large nobility, provincial magnates came out from under the power of the Polish prince, Polish campaigns in Western Pomerania ended in ruin. Therefore, Poland could not fight with Russia at this time, she herself was on the verge of a new unrest and collapse.

As a result, in 1086, Yaropolk made peace with Vladimir Vsevolodovich and sat down again in Vladimir-Volynsky, which Davyd Igorevich already claimed. However, Yaropolk did not have to rule long. That winter, during a campaign against the Rostislavichi, he was killed near Zvenigorod by his own retainer. He fled to Przemysl under the protection of Rurik Rostislavich. Therefore, they considered Rostislavichi guilty of organizing the murder of Yaropolk.

The Grand Duke decided to completely liquidate the “Izyaslav legacy”. Svyatopolk Izyaslavich, whom the people of Novgorod complained about (the prince was distinguished by love for money, while the usury Jews felt at ease), was deprived of the Novgorod table. Novgorod was given to Mstislav, son of Vladimir Monomakh. Svyatopolk was transferred to Turov, part of the patrimony of the murdered Yaropolk Izyaslavich. And Davyd Igorech received Volyn principality. However, here it turned out wrong. Svyatopolk and Davyd sang. Davyd admired Svyatopolk, who on the ladder was to receive the Kiev table, after the death of Vsevolod. Both disliked Vsevolod and Vladimir Monomakh. They feuded with Rostislavichi. Davyd Igorevich married the daughter of Polish Prince Vladislav and received the support of Poland. Svyatopolk maintained contacts with Jewish moneylenders (Khazars), who wove their network and had powerful positions in the Russian capital. Formed a dangerous union for the Grand Duke.

The threat from Poland and the Izyaslavichs associated with it pushed the Grand Duke Vsevolod to rapprochement with Germany. For Emperor Henry IV, the prince married his daughter Eupraxia. True, the marriage was not successful. Later, the daughter of Vsevolod fled from Germany to Italy and appeared before the pope. At the church council in Constanta (April 1094) and at the synod in Piacenza (March 1095), Eupraxia testified against Henry, accusing her husband of bullying her, forcing fornication with other people, orgies, and participating in satanic rituals (Henry was in the sect of Nicolaes , arranged with the nobility Satanic Sabbaths). A terrible scandal broke out, the emperor again cursed. He was already betrayed by anathema during the conflict with Pope Gregory VII. Henry IV was eventually removed from power by his own son. The complaint of Eupraxia was recognized as fair, and she received absolution. Soon, she returned to Kiev and after some time cut herself into a nun. In addition, Vladimir Monomakh married his son Mstislav on a Swedish princess. Russian princesses were sent to Hungary, Norway and Denmark.

The beginning of the reign of Svyatopolk Izyaslavich

In 1092, the Polovtsian hordes of Bonyak and Sharukan united, broke through the Russian border line. Several cities were defeated, thousands of villages blazed. For the princes so much a powerful campaign was unexpected. Pereyaslavl and Chernigov shut up in the siege, did not have time to put the rati. The great Prince of Kiev, Vsevolod, who was very sick, chose to give a big ransom.

In the spring of 1093, the great Russian prince Vsevolod Yaroslavich died. Everyone was waiting for the Kiev table to be occupied by Vladimir Vsevolodovich Monomakh. He was the most powerful and authoritative prince in Russia. Terrible and intelligent prince feared and respected. However, Vladimir refused this honor: “If I sit in Kiev on my father’s table, then be at war with Svyatopolk, since this table was before his father, Izyaslav”. He considered and did not disrupt the order of the ladder. According to her primacy belonged to the children of the eldest of Yaroslavich, Izyaslav, and of them only Svyatopolk survived. Vladimir did not violate the series so that there was no new internecine war. He gave up the crown to the throne in peace, in fact, he himself elevated it to the Kiev table. He himself sat in Chernihiv. His younger brother Rostislav Vsevolodovich sat in Pereyaslavl.

Polovtsy, who learned about the death of the Kiev prince, decided to receive another tribute from the new prince and sent ambassadors to Svyatopolk. The greedy Svyatopolk and his advisers did not want to part with the money. And the ambassadors were cast into prison. It was a great sin in the ideas of the Polovtsy (as well as all Rus). Stepniaks immediately gathered a large army. Svyatopolk caught himself (he had a small squad - 700-800 fighters), released the ambassadors, but it was too late. Polovtsi invaded the Russian limits. Sieged Torchevsk. Svyatopolk began to prepare the squad for the campaign. Reasonable people from the older squad warned him: “Do not try to go against them, because you have few soldiers ... If you had put up eight thousand, and that would be a little bit. Our land is scorched from war and taxes. Come better to your brother Vladimir Monomakh so that he can help you. ” Svyatopolk asked Vladimir for help. To help the Grand Duke entered Chernigov squad Vladimir and Pereyaslav Rostislav.

Vladimir came to Kiev. Here the princes quarreled, Vladimir favored negotiations, Svyatopolk wanted victory. Polovtsi, meanwhile, continued to ravage the land. And wise men said to the princes, "Why do you argue among yourselves?" And the filthy destroy the Russian land. Then settle, and now go to meet the rotten - either with peace or with war.

Troops came to Trepol, to r. Stugne where the council was held. Vladimir, correctly assessing the situation (the enemy had a significant advantage), suggested not to cross the spilled river, which was a barrier to the enemy's path and enter into negotiations. He said that steppe men would prefer rich gifts to bloody struggle. Svyatopolk strongly opposed, he was supported by the Kiev boyars (they did not want to give gold): "We want to fight, let's move to the other side of the river." The battle took place on 26 May 1093. Svyatopolk stood on the right flank, Vladimir on the left, Rostislav in the center. The first blow Polovtsy crushed squad Svyatopolk on the right wing. The soldiers of Svyatopolk fled. Then they pressed on Vladimir, “and there was a fierce battle, and Vladimir and Rostislav ran, and his soldiers. And they fell, wounded, before our enemies, and many perished. " And on the way was the river Stugna, which rose during the spring rains. Many warriors drowned. Among them was Prince Rostislav. Vladimir tried to save his brother and he almost drowned. The body of Rostislav was later found and mourned.

Svyatopolk returned to Kiev, Vladimir in deep sadness went to Chernigov. A part of the Polovtsy began to ravage the lands left without protection, some continued the siege of Torchesk: “And there was a great cry on our land, our villages and our cities were empty, and we were on the run before our enemies.” Svyatopolk decided on a new battle. Collected Kiev militia and brought into the field. 23 July he fought with Polovtsy on Zhelani. Stepniaks deceived the prince of Kiev with a simplest method, feigned retreat. Kievans rushed to the attack. Violation of the system, it was here that they were hit. Russian army suffered a terrible defeat. The chronicle speaks of the death of two-thirds of the people of Kiev in this battle, and also that the number of the dead exceeded the losses on Stugna (there was mainly a squad of the prince and his boyars). The prince himself with his closest fighters barely managed to escape outside the walls of the city. The besieged Torchesk lasted more than two months. Polovtsi diverted water from the fortress. People were exhausted from hunger and thirst, and surrendered. The city was burned, the inhabitants were taken to slavery.

As a result, Svyatopolk and Vladimir once again fought with the Polovtsy from Halep. Both sides were exhausted and made peace. He was sealed by marriage. Svyatopolk married his daughter Polovtsian Khan Tugorkan (Princess Polovtsian Elena Tugorkanovna).

“Let down our villages and our cities”

V.P. Vereshchagin. "Grand Prince Svyatopolk". 1896

The internecine war

Misfortune never comes alone. The defeat of Svyatopolk and Vladimir pleased Svyatoslavich who were waiting for a convenient moment. The independent Oleg Tmutarakansky enlisted the support of the Byzantine Emperor Alexey Komnin, received money and hired Polovtsy (they had many clans and tribes, some could make peace with the Russian princes, others - at that time to fight). Paid Oleg Tmutarakany - gave it to the Greeks in full possession. The second Rome acted in the best traditions of the First - divide and rule. Byzantine basileus, making a bet on the ambitious and offended Prince Oleg, plunged Russia into a new feud, and without war acquired Taman and Kerch, depriving the Russian state of access to the Russian (Black) Sea, an outpost in the Caucasus and a fortress that protected important trade communications.

The elder brother Davyd Svyatoslavich, who was sitting in Smolensk, started the war. He suddenly attacked Novgorod and expelled the son of Vladimir Monomakh Mstislav from there. Vladimir Monomakh lost most of the squad in fierce battles with the Polovtsy and was forced to support his son Mstislav. And at this moment Oleg and the Polovtsi came to Chernigov. Vladimir, not having the strength to fight, shut up in the city. Oleg burned down all the surroundings of the city, Polovtsy plundered and burned the monasteries. The Chernigov boyars supported Svyatoslavich, so Vladimir did not have the support of the city militia. Monomakh with a small squad was not able to keep the big city. However, he lasted 8 days. And the Grand Duke Svyatopolk did not intervene, did not send help. He could consider himself a winner, the strongest prince of Russia was defeated.

Monomakh, seeing the impossibility of further resistance, gave Chernigov to Oleg, while he himself left for Pereyaslav, on the table of his father. Oleg sat in Chernigov, giving the Polovtsi complete freedom of robbery, because otherwise he had nothing to pay them for the trip. "This is the third time, the chronicler noted," he brought the rotten to the Russian land, his sin, God forgive him, and many Christians were ruined, while others were taken prisoner and scattered across different lands. "

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
“Why are we destroying the Russian land?”
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  1. Monarchist
    Monarchist 24 October 2017 08: 05 New
    +6
    Author, you have a mistake at the very beginning: "Despite the military talent of Vladimir Vsevolodovich and his ability to be a zealous host, the end of the reign of Vsevolod Yaroslavich ..." Agree that Vladimir Vsevolodovich and Vsevolod Yaroslavich are different people. Next time, be careful, otherwise you get some nonsense.
    1. Velizariy
      Velizariy 24 October 2017 10: 19 New
      +3
      Quote: Monarchist
      it turns out some nonsense

      Achinea is the hobbyhorse of this scribbler.
      1. ver_
        ver_ 24 October 2017 12: 10 New
        +2
        ... funny .. Aleksey Komnin - the half brother of Christ = Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky - from different wives .. when Alexey was expelled, the imperial throne was seized by Andrei ... fate ... his woman and * surrendered * - well, yes it is and it always happens ...
        1. Velizariy
          Velizariy 24 October 2017 12: 26 New
          +4
          didn’t take medicine again?
          1. ver_
            ver_ 24 October 2017 12: 42 New
            +1
            ..will be a slave? ..
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri 24 October 2017 20: 38 New
            +1
            "A medicine pile
            We are in the toilet, who is not.
            This is life! ......" (with) wassat wassat wassat
        2. Luga
          Luga 24 October 2017 13: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: ver_
          ... funny .. Aleksey Komnin - the half brother of Christ = Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky - from different wives .. when Alexey was expelled, the imperial throne was seized by Andrei ... fate ... his woman and * surrendered * - well, yes it is and it always happens ...

          Let me bring you a little bit. Alexey Komnin is Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich, and not Christ’s half-brother, but Zarathustra’s nephew, and he is Christ’s uncle, like Alexander Nevsky-Suvorov-Rymniksky-Makedonsky, and Andrei Sergeyevich Bogolyubsky is generally my communal neighbor, and the woman “surrendered him” I do not agree with him, but with his empty bottles, which have been stamped over the year, I agree here, as it always happens. Otherwise, everything is correct.
          wassat wassat wassat
          1. ver_
            ver_ 24 October 2017 14: 52 New
            0
            ..Alexey Komnin - the son of Manuel Komnin ..
          2. ver_
            ver_ 27 October 2017 06: 55 New
            0
            ... have you been staying in Kashchenko for a long time? ..
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 24 October 2017 14: 11 New
        +4
        Here are those on! It turns out, according to Samsonov, Syatopolk son of a Jew Izi? And the author’s surname is from Samson - the son of Israel. Vague forebodings about the origin of Russia from foreigners creep in. belay
    2. Luga
      Luga 24 October 2017 13: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: Monarchist
      Author, you have a mistake at the very beginning: "Despite the military talent of Vladimir Vsevolodovich and his ability to be a zealous host, the end of the reign of Vsevolod Yaroslavich ..." Agree that Vladimir Vsevolodovich and Vsevolod Yaroslavich are different people. Next time, be careful, otherwise you get some nonsense.

      I’ll intercede for the author.
      This article is a continuation of the article "Let us destroy the Russian land" from 19.10.17. Both articles are a single text artificially divided by the author. If you read in a row what is called “without a pause”, then everything turns out to be logical - the elderly sick Vsevolod, his active and capable son Vladimir, despite the efforts of which with his still alive father, the end of the reign of Vsevolod’s reign was “marked by wars and unrest.” Why the single text was so absurdly divided in this place - questions to the author.
  2. Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 24 October 2017 08: 34 New
    +3
    You read and goof straight - what an interesting “story” we have wassat Go, even the participants in those events did not know that they were capable of marching from a thousand kilometers, dortsovy coups with poisoning, tactical maneuvers with flanks and other elements of the busy life of the “barbarians” of ancient Russia laughing
    But Samsonov writes beautifully in history, like Kaptsov in armor good
    We write to the personal opinion of the author yes
    1. igordok
      igordok 24 October 2017 09: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: Rurikovich
      You read and goof straight

      Judging by the article, you have something to fear with your nickname.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 24 October 2017 09: 44 New
        +4
        Quote: igordok
        Judging by the article, you have something to fear with your nickname.

        laughing It's not a matter of anyone, but an article yes This is my personal opinion, but in many ways the official story decently diverges in the interpretation of my personal opinion about this very story. Therefore, the story in Samsonov’s interpretation evokes only a smile for me and is by no means an undeniable version ...
        These are just interpretations of modern historians, and they don’t know what was really in those days, that's why they come up with such beautiful fairy tales, adding a bunch of beautiful turns and epithets for beauty and volume. It is interesting to read fables about Veliky Novgorod on Volkhov lol when another Grand Duke travels from Kostroma to Moscow in transit through Veliky Novgorod. Although it would be more common sense to say from Kostroma to Veliky Novgorod in transit through Moscow (see map) But no, the chronicles do not lie! And if they don’t lie, then, according to common sense, the interpretation of history lies repeat
        Therefore, I consider the official interpretation of the history of Russia (albeit through the lips of Samsonov) a lie

        This is just my personal opinion. hi
        PS It will be interesting to look at historians when we make contact with lunatics (not intimate), and when they ask a question about history, they say that everything was wrong and you thought up everything yourself, we’ve watched you from ancient times. They are likely to be declared lunatics as liars. wassat laughing and apostates repeat wink hi
        1. Severomor
          Severomor 24 October 2017 11: 12 New
          +2
          Quote: Rurikovich
          It is interesting to read fables about Veliky Novgorod on Volkhov lol, when the next Grand Duke travels from Kostroma to Moscow in transit through Veliky Novgorod. Although, according to common sense, it would be more correct to say from Kostroma to Veliky Novgorod in transit through Moscow (see map

          All the same, Yaroslavl !?
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 24 October 2017 14: 45 New
            +1
            Quote: Severomor
            All the same, Yaroslavl!

            Personally, my opinion is yes. yes
        2. Mikado
          Mikado 24 October 2017 11: 28 New
          +3
          They are likely to be declared lunatics as wassat laughing liars and apostates feel wink hi

          after such accusations and not far from the fire wink
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Luga
          Luga 24 October 2017 14: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Rurikovich
          the official story decently differs in interpretation with my personal opinion about this very story.

          The main thing in this case is not to go to extremes. You need to understand that "official" does not mean a priori "wrong." But in general, I personally am always for a critical attitude to the information received.
          However, the fallacy of conclusions often stems not from the researcher’s “insanity”, his tendentiousness, etc., but simply from a lack of information for analysis, roughly speaking, ignorance of the materiel.
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 24 October 2017 15: 02 New
            0
            Quote: Luga
            The main thing in this case is not to go to extremes. You need to understand that "official" does not mean a priori "wrong"

            The point is not that everything written by historians is not true, but that the events described could look and occur in a completely different way. The point is in the interpretation.
            Quote: Luga
            But in general, I personally am always for a critical attitude to the information received.

            It would be ideal if all points of view regarding any event were taken into account and a single interpretation of the event, logical and sound, were developed. But alas, there would be too much. There is an official one, and the rest is all heresy, even if this heresy is logically much closer to common sense. Moreover, official history also likes to seek explanations for its contradictions, instead of accepting the logical arguments of opponents and changing. But then the professors will have to admit that they are liars, and this is not. request So we will continue to marvel at the prince’s trips from Kostroma to Moscow through "Veliky Novgorod" on Volkhov yes laughing Vicious circle hi
            Quote: Luga
            However, the fallacy of conclusions often stems not from the researcher’s “insanity”, his tendentiousness, etc., but simply from a lack of information for analysis, roughly speaking, ignorance of the materiel.

            And how was the Bible written? Of the two dozens of Gospels, 4 were selected, and even they contradict each other and are declared a canon. Or maybe the rest had evidence that would refute these canonical ones. But they are attributed to erroneous request So believe that the places around the "promised land" were full of living creatures and vegetation, and in one of the biblical scenes the pursuing enemy could not overcome the Jordan because of its width and fullness. Does the Bible fit reality?

            Is it impossible to overcome the Jordan ??? laughing

            Is it the jelly banks and forests full of animals ??? lol
            1. Luga
              Luga 24 October 2017 18: 22 New
              0
              Quote: Rurikovich
              the events described could look and occur in a completely different way.

              Could anyone argue.
              The scientist’s historian’s business consists in collecting a maximum of information related to, or possibly relating to the subject of research, from a variety of sources, including related and not very sciences, to evaluate its reliability and relevance to the topic, criteria, something to include in the evidence base, analyze, draw conclusions, state these conclusions for colleagues and other interested. Ideally, all this should be passed through the prism of common sense and independent logic. In reality, of course, every scientist is a hostage to his own concept, and it is extremely rare for any of them to admit their errors. The difference between professional scientists and us sinners lies in the fact that they:
              a) Better know the materiel, because they study it on purpose and do nothing else.
              b) Possess in a certain area a more sophisticated thinking apparatus, due to the fact that he is constantly trained in various consultations, conferences, defenses, just in inter-war intrigues and squabbles.
              c) They are a certain caste (they use special, incomprehensible to other terminology, preach different from generally recognized values), each other, despite any differences, they understand better than us or we do them.
              Otherwise, they are the same people.
              By the way, modern pseudo-historians also win true historians in the struggle for the minds of people (moreover, at the same gate, it seems to me), precisely because, having been expelled from the scientific community for one reason or another or not accepted at all, they turned their intellect to " evil "- the promotion of their ideas, often WANTED to be false, doing so solely from selfish motives.
              One friend once advised me to read Bushkov’s book “The Ghost of the Golden Horde,” it seems. I read. And I had an idea: how to be savvy on the topic "myths of the peoples of the world" and create your own "history" of the planet. He was savvy, wrote several introductory pages. Gave read to another friend. She said that “it is quite possible that this was the case” when she read that Prince Fedor Rostislavovich Smolensky was actually Koshchei, or rather, Koshchei, because I used this term not as a proper name, but as a designation of a specific kind a magical creature with strictly defined attributes. Type, "the largest number of koshcheys on the territory of Russia we meet in the XV - XVI centuries."
              But there are people smarter and more educated than me, who write a lengthy article or book - like two fingers on the asphalt.
              Regarding the Bible, I do not consider it a historical source, but only, at best, a literary one. Like, however, the gospel. They DO NOT MEET reality and they were not given such a task.
              Quote: Rurikovich
              So we will continue to marvel at the prince’s trips from Kostroma to Moscow through "Veliky Novgorod" on Volkhov
              This is what you enlighten. Maybe I can give you satisfactory explanations without recognizing Yaroslavl as the residence of the Grand Dukes, or Yaroslav's court, which in my opinion is contrary to logic and common sense.
              1. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 24 October 2017 20: 10 New
                0
                Quote: Luga
                This is what you enlighten. Maybe I can give you satisfactory explanations without recognizing Yaroslavl as the residence of the Grand Dukes, or Yaroslav's court, which in my opinion is contrary to logic and common sense.

                "Arkhangelogorodsky chronicler" Complete collection of Russian chronicles, 1982 T.37, s85.
                In 1434, Grand Duke Vasily Vasilyevich was defeated under Rostov Prince Yuri, after which he fled to Veliky Novgorod, from there to Kostroma, from there to Nizhny Novgorod ...
                After some time in the same year, another prince Vasily Kosoy Yuryevich "going from Moscow to Veliky Novgorod, from there to Kostroma gathered his army"
                Substitute the Great "Volkhov" Novgorod in the annals and see all the idiocy of logic request(see maps in any geographical atlas). But everything becomes logical and beautiful, simple and understandable, if we accept that Yaroslavl was the "Yaroslav yard" and the political center of the region in Russian lands, called Veliky Novgorod hi
                1. Luga
                  Luga 24 October 2017 23: 09 New
                  0
                  Well, dear, if your formations are based only on these annals and the name Yaroslav - Yaroslavl, then, in my opinion, this is completely insufficient.
                  I specifically, in order not to be unfounded, read all the records for the year you specified. If we analyze them in general, in the context of the entire annals of the article, then it becomes completely clear to me personally that at first it was Vasily Vasilyevich who played an active role in unleashing it, who invaded Yuri Dmitrievich’s homeland - the Rostov-Yaroslavl-Kostroma-Galich region, was reflected cousins ​​near Galich and defeated on the way to Rostov or in its vicinity by his uncle Yuri, after which he fled to Novgorod the Great. Yuri Dm. occupied Moscow, made up his mind, Vasily Vasilievich pulled the shortest route along the Volga to the Horde, but in connection with the death of Yuri, he stayed in Nizhny, agreed with Shemyaka to overthrow Kosy, who was roaming in Moscow, and again occupied Moscow. Let's say Novgorod the Great = Yaroslavl. Explain to me how frightened Vasily is. after a defeat from Yur. Was the dm supposed to flee almost the center of the domain domains of his main adversary, who had just defeated him?
                  Now further. After expelling you from Moscow. Oblique himself rushed to Novgorod the Great. It would seem why not in their possession? The answer is simple, it is in the annals of you. You. expelled him from Moscow in collusion with Shemyaka - his brother, whose possessions blocked the road to Zavolzhye and Galich, especially since it was from that side that you most likely were advancing. You. with Shemyaka. The scythe simply could not rely on brotherly feelings. And V. Novgorod is that Novgorod, too, that has always been in opposition to the central authority of Russia and supported the strongest competitor of the Grand Duke, whoever he is, this thesis, I think, does not need a separate argument. You. Kos. gathered the people in V. Novgorod and moved into their domain domains - the Volga region, Galich, connected Vyatka and Ba was defeated with this army. You. on Kotorosli, again fled to the northeast (Vologda), gathered a new army and made peace with you. You.
                  I read this passage exactly like that. I see nothing illogical, at the same time, absurdity with the behavior of you. You. obvious, if you accept your hypothesis that Yaroslavl = V. Novgorod.
                  1. Seal
                    Seal 25 October 2017 14: 32 New
                    0
                    As noted by Yaroslav Kesler
                    It is no less interesting that the ancient city in the very center of Black Earth Russia, Yelets (1146), is marked on the academic French map in 1706 as Galicz, i.e., just like Galich-Kostroma. (On this map, in both cases, the explosive pronunciation of the initial “g” and the clinking version of the northern pronunciation of the final consonant are recorded, as in the name of Mtsensk: Moschenecz. On the map of 1692 (compiled by H. Iaillot), Yelets and Galich-Kostromskaya are marked with the transfer of the southern Russian palatal initial “g” and the smacking Kursk pronunciation: Eilatz (Eylatz, cf. also Eilat in Israel) and Galets (Galetz), respectively, cf. Mtsensk: Mochiensk.) It is possible that the current Yelets is the famous Galich "Ancient Russia".

                    So that princes Daniil Galitsky and Daniil of Moscow finally became different characters separated in time and space only in the “Catherine’s edition” of Russian history,
              2. Rurikovich
                Rurikovich 24 October 2017 20: 13 New
                0
                Quote: Luga
                Regarding the Bible, I do not consider it a historical source, but only, at best, a literary one. Like, however, the gospel. They DO NOT MEET reality and they were not given such a task.

                But let, the historical person of Christ is recognized on the basis of the Bible request And if the entire chronology of the so-called new era is based entirely on the recognition of those events, then why can not the Bible be considered a historical source ?? what
                1. Luga
                  Luga 24 October 2017 23: 13 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Rurikovich
                  But let, the historical person of Christ is recognized on the basis of the Bible

                  I do not admit. In any case, I do not recognize its scientific nature, if you want, its historicity. Yes, the stories about Christ influenced the course of history, but no one proved that the course of history was influenced by his actions.
                  Quote: Rurikovich
                  And if the entire chronology of the so-called new era is based entirely on the recognition of those events, then why can not the Bible be considered a historical source ??

                  Just a convention. It was not agreed on the date of creation of the world, they decided to count from Christmas. And then, not right away. In Russia, over to what century from the creation of the world did they count?
                  1. ver_
                    ver_ 26 October 2017 03: 31 New
                    +1
                    ..the main thing is to puzzle- from the creation of the world .., and what nobody knows about this ... in the * star church * ..- what it is eaten with ..., Jesus Christ = Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky was born in 1152 ... and now the year 2017 is from the * Nativity of Christ .. WONDER in the church of the Church and the Humanities from history .. Thank God that technical sciences exist .. and are not subject to these talkers and demagogues ..
                    1. Luga
                      Luga 26 October 2017 19: 52 New
                      0
                      Quote: ver_
                      Madhouse in the Church Church and Humanities from history ..

                      I wonder in what madhouse those lectures that you quote here, like
                      Quote: ver_
                      Jesus Christ = Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky

                      You repeat the same mantras with such manic insistence that I wondered where you got them. Give the coordinates of the author, publication, at least something so that I can join.
                      1. ver_
                        ver_ 27 October 2017 17: 32 New
                        0
                        ... for communication - brains are needed ..
              3. Seal
                Seal 25 October 2017 14: 12 New
                +2
                The scientist’s historian’s business consists in collecting a maximum of information related to, or possibly relating to the subject of research, from a variety of sources, including related and not very sciences, to evaluate its reliability and relevance to the topic, criteria, something to include in the evidence base, analyze, draw conclusions, state these conclusions for colleagues and other interested. Ideally, all this should be passed through the prism of common sense and independent logic. In reality, of course, every scientist is a hostage to his own concept, and it is extremely rare for any of them to admit their errors. The difference between professional scientists and us sinners lies in the fact that they:

                That they are humanities, moreover, narrowly targeted. Boiled in their own juice. And they are hilling their historical plots, which they inherit from their "scientific leaders", not distracting from the "general line" indicated by the scientific leader and his predecessors. They consider any intrusion into their so-called "scientific activity" an unacceptable challenge for themselves. So, historians brew exclusively in their midst and therefore reproduce the next generation of historians in exactly the same way as they themselves are now. And further. A professional in something is usually a narrow professional. For example, a chemist may not know anything in military affairs, music, or shipbuilding. A shipbuilder may not know anything in medicine and in military affairs, in painting, in music and so on. And for example, a military man from the infantry may not even know anything about naval affairs. But professional historians, without being specialists in anything and knowing nothing from the field of military affairs, metallurgy, chemistry, physics, medical science, music, sculpture, painting, shipbuilding, and so on, nevertheless they brazenly undertake to explain all this to us. Moreover, they undertake to explain not the current state of affairs in these areas (professionals will quickly put them in their place), but how they were there, 1000 years ago 1500 years ago, 2000 years ago and so on !!! What is the main problem? Suppose, a historian wrote a huge professional work on an antique theme. I read it military and from my professional point of view noted that in terms of the description of antique military campaigns and battles, this shtafirka wrote complete nonsense. But over 50 percent of all historical works are a description of ancient military campaigns and battles. But since the military is also not a chemist, not a physicist, not a metallurgist, not a shipbuilder, (and he does not understand the land military and in naval affairs); not a doctor; not an artist .. .. he understood, thought that it was only by his, on the military side, the historian wrote nonsense. Well, I wrote and wrote that, the military has other things to do, besides this historian's face in his stupidity to poke? Of course, the military read ... ... and forgot. At the same time as the military, I read the work of a historian, let’s say, a doctor. And he also noted that from his professional point of view about ancient medicine, the historian wrote complete nonsense. But since the doctor is not a specialist in the military sphere, in painting, physics, chemistry (although he probably is a little in chemistry), shipbuilding, music, and so on, and the doctor’s affairs are full, he didn’t bother with refuting professional work historian. And just like that, the historian’s work was read: - chemist; - physicist; - sculptor; - artist; - metallurgy - shipbuilder and so on. All noted that in their area is written complete nonsense !!! But since none of them sees the big picture, and even the book is full of enthusiastic reviews from colleagues of the historian - the same historians as he (she) himself (herself) - the book is published, children learn from it, films are made from it , and after some time, the next generation of historians consider that work is already a "document". Here and before and now, a lot of historians enthusiastically describe all the possible various military campaigns and battles. Name at least one official historian who had a higher military education, engaged in critical research, and not a compilation of the works of early historians (there are such military "historians")? We do not have such. Other historians enthusiastically describe the huge five-deck, and even ten-deck antique ships. Name at least one official historian with a university degree in shipbuilding or navigation? We do not have such. Here are how many historical dissertations and "works" on the theme of "antique military campaigns and conquests" have been submitted for review to the Academy of the General Staff? ZERO !!! Historians are well aware that it is necessary to discuss all their “works” exclusively in their midst. Since if their "works", for example, on the theme of "antique campaigns and battles" officially fall under the review of a professional military, it would be such a shame !!! So historians have all divided glades for a long time. And all historians exclusively cultivate their clearing, without climbing into other people's glades of their historian neighbors. And from these glades they have who so far are just bread, and who is already bread and butter. Some historians even have bread with butter and red caviar. And there are those who also have black caviar. And none of the historians want to lose their piece of bread. With butter. And caviar.

                But all this easily got away with them until the advent of the Internet. And now, when independent communities are formed on the Internet that discuss historical topics, in which physicists and chemists and musicians and the military participate, and so on, it is becoming increasingly clear that the king (the official version of the story) is naked.
                1. Severomor
                  Severomor 25 October 2017 14: 34 New
                  +2
                  Thank you for not too lazy to type such a text, it's a pity not everyone will read.
                  The phrase "must be handled by professionals" historians interpret in their favor and no place for the military, shipbuilders, doctors, materials scientists .....
                  No, except for jokes. At the place of custody trad. I would have erected a Monument to the Unknown Nomad in front of each humanitarian university. Truly, if it were not for this omnipresent and elusive guy of uncertain appearance and mysterious origin, it would be much more difficult to hide the ends in water.
                  (C)
                  1. ver_
                    ver_ 26 October 2017 03: 48 New
                    +1
                    ..they refer to each other - the more links - the better - the dissertations are written that way - there is also a list of the examined * waste paper * to which they refer - in the final part of their * work * ..
                  2. Seal
                    Seal 26 October 2017 18: 39 New
                    +1
                    Yes, I already wrote it five years ago. The text is really mine, I’ve not copied it from anywhere. I do not impose any restrictions on use. On the contrary - take and use without restriction. hi
                    I support the idea of ​​the monument. yes
                2. Luga
                  Luga 25 October 2017 15: 49 New
                  0
                  Quote: Seal
                  the historian rapturously describes all the possible various military campaigns and battles. Name at least one official historian who had a higher military education, engaged in critical research, and not a compilation of the works of early historians (there are such military "historians")? We do not have such.

                  Offhand: Razin Evgeny Andreevich, author of The History of Military Art. Learn the materiel.
        5. Hantengri
          Hantengri 24 October 2017 21: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Rurikovich
          It is interesting to read fables about Veliky Novgorod on Volkhov

          http://ricolor.org/history/hr/arheologia/novgorod
          /
          http://tvkultura.ru/anons/show/episode_id/156390/
          brand_id / 20898 /
          http://archnov.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/CHe
          repnin-LV-Novgorodskie-berestyanye-gramoty-kak-
          istoricheskij-istochnik.-1969-1.pdf
          Are these fables too? Or archaeologists, in your opinion, full de Bill (s), point blank, did not see where they were digging?
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri 24 October 2017 21: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: Rurikovich
      poisoning coups,

      Well, I don’t know how with the rest ..... But with the palace coups, brother / father murders, gouging eyes to close relatives, everything was in order! As in any self-respecting, European power! "All of each other, continuously, cut, raped, robbed ... In general, a normal, civilized life is going on!" (c) Goblin. laughing Are you "relative" ashamed of your ancestors? For example, I do not. And do not think it will not agree! And THAT ... !!! Genes, you know ... laughing
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 24 October 2017 21: 12 New
        +3
        Quote: HanTengri
        Are you "relative" ashamed of your ancestors? For example, I do not. And do not think it will not agree!

        On the contrary, I am proud of them! fellow
        Just not enthusiastic about today's "historians" negative who invented the distant different "yoke", panimash hi
  3. antivirus
    antivirus 24 October 2017 09: 10 New
    0
    In the spring of 1093, the great Russian prince Vsevolod Yaroslavich died. Everyone was waiting for the Kiev table to be occupied by Vladimir Vsevolodovich Monomakh. He was the most powerful and authoritative prince in Russia.
    the crusade (gathered from all over Europe) had begun, and in Russia, civil strife was-could not agree, unite
    What in Wed Asia was at the end of the 11th century?
    How did Byzantium survive?
    the geniuses of the great Rus were weak.
    in vain do we honor our ancestors - we honor history as the highest achievement.
    Russia then and now had and has its drawbacks and obvious achievements, NOT MORE than "pr Swedes .."
    1. Luga
      Luga 24 October 2017 14: 09 New
      0
      Quote: antivirus
      Russia then and now had and has its drawbacks and obvious achievements, NOT MORE than "pr Swedes .."

      And what do you think means "no more"? The fact that someone has "more" and someone has "less"? Let me ask, and from whom?
      Or did you just want to say that you do not see any exclusive role of Russia in the historical process as a whole?
      Quote: antivirus
      the geniuses of the great Rus were weak.

      It's funny And why did you come to this conclusion precisely after this article? Or does this only apply to a single narrow period described in the article?
      Please do not take my questions as an attempt to show aggression, I'm really curious.
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 24 October 2017 15: 19 New
        +1
        also without aggression
        - every nation and nation lives a life cycle that can
        we have no more difficult than the Swedes or Spaniards (with the reconquista and the era of the great geographical discoveries)
        your joys and sorrows
        and Vladimir Monomakh - the last prince of the united Kievan Rus, then the turbidity of the collapse and crystallization of new entities
  4. Cartalon
    Cartalon 24 October 2017 10: 38 New
    +2
    Samsonov’s articles are of course pretty dull, although this is more or less normal, but the comments are burned with such napalm that you somehow don’t know what to say, because in fact we live in different universes.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 24 October 2017 22: 16 New
      +3
      And we live in different. It just so happened that recently I was invited to a communist party ... I go and in front of me is a laborer with his wife and daughter (about a year old) in their arms. And he sees a sidekick. And he screams to him: "Your mother, .. so ... and there and again! Hello!" And the one to him - And you and there ...! "The wife is silent. I'm used to it. I look at it, I think. What will his daughter hear when she is, well, let's say 7 years old?" Oh, you ... brought a deuce again ?! "And in response already at 14 -" himself ... ".
      And at a party my commies again started talking about the liberation of the "working class" ... And I thought: free this ... That is, give him a salary, a decent apartment, a car ... What do you think, he will run to listen to Bach's fugue or Shakespeare will read in the original? Here you have three universes at once: mine, party-goers of these, and this hard worker with his wife and daughter. And there are those who knock on the clave here ... without thinking.
      Well, specifically according to the article ... she is greatly impoverished by the inconsistency of the author. There is no superethnos of the Rus and nothing about the ugly role of the British empire. A true historian is always distinguished by consistency. "Carthage must be destroyed" - and that’s it!
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri 24 October 2017 23: 57 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        I look at it, I think. What will his daughter hear when she becomes, well, say 7 years old? "Oh, you ... brought a deuce again ?!"

        No. "Yulia, my daughter, do not swear! And then, my God’s tongue, my son ..... rit!" (from life). AND? Is something bothering you? At what age did you yourself learn all the "charm" of profanity? About 50 years old, not otherwise! laughing
        Quote: kalibr
        And at a party my commies again started talking about the liberation of the "working class" ... And I thought: free this ... That is, give him a salary, a decent apartment, a car ... What do you think, he will run to listen to Bach's fugue or Shakespeare will read in the original?

        Of course not!!! He will buy, instead of the 1st “bubble”, a box of vodka, he will get drunk, but how he starts to get tiligents, there, all sorts of highly educated (by birth !!!) ex. teachers of the History of the CPSU and other decent people face muzzle on the asphalt! Untermensch, cho! In the ghetto of them all! In the ghetto! Urgently! And then Mr. Shpakovsky is not comfortable to live! lol
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 25 October 2017 09: 25 New
          +3
          And the thing is that the story about the swearing proletariat was already, but slightly different, at the end of the comments on the article about the poisoned pen, the last issue. Conclusion ----- an established PR move. There is a program cycle "" DO NOT FORGET TO TURN OFF THE TV "" On the topic of PR, lies, fraud, suppression, okhayali ...... Well, I advise everyone!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 25 October 2017 19: 43 New
            +2
            Dmitry, it makes no sense to me, I already wrote to you, to deceive you or anyone else. This is below my dignity. Such an episode was, I can’t pass it word for word every time, and why. You yourself know very well that there are such people and many of them around us. Is not it? I also do not meet them every day and it makes me happy. But I meet ...
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 26 October 2017 08: 48 New
              0
              Quote: kalibr
              Dmitry, it makes no sense to me, I already wrote to you, to deceive you or anyone else. This is below my dignity. Such an episode was, I can’t pass it word for word every time, and why. You yourself know very well that there are such people and many of them around us. Is not it? I also do not meet them every day and it makes me happy. But I meet ...

              One episode for different articles! So this is not a typical case. That's what !!!!!
              One was pleased that there was a presence at the communist assembly !!!!!!! There is an opportunity to reformat !!!!!!
              1. kalibr
                kalibr 27 October 2017 11: 43 New
                +1
                I was not there long. I thought that if a person ... then it is for a long time, but there everyone was like that. And left. But this will also be material.
      2. Severomor
        Severomor 25 October 2017 09: 24 New
        +4
        Quote: kalibr
        free this ... That is, to give him a salary, a decent apartment, a car ... Do you think he will run Bach's fugue to listen, or will Shakespeare read in the original?


        How everything is familiar. To free? Slaves !!!! To the barnyard, flog. And hang? Hang - then, but you can here and now, so that they know the place.
        Signature: "educated" liberal
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 25 October 2017 11: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: Severomor


          How everything is familiar. To free? Slaves !!!! To the barnyard, flog. And hang? Hang - then, but you can here and now, so that they know the place.
          Signature: "educated" liberal

          Why hang up? You just need to privatize these slaves! So that under the strict guidance of the gentleman they would live right, well, and flog, of course for their own good!
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 25 October 2017 19: 46 New
            +2
            Slave, Dmitry, not a pilgrim. This livestock can be privatized. There are no people. Much more dear to "graze" the wretched. So there is no need for fabrication.
        2. kalibr
          kalibr 25 October 2017 19: 45 New
          +2
          Why flog, why hang? Why such extremes? His fate has already punished. Do not flog, do not hang, and tell - show - "you have a choice", but you do it yourself. Neither God, nor king and hero will help you. That's all.
  5. ver_
    ver_ 25 October 2017 11: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: siberalt
    Here are those on! It turns out, according to Samsonov, Syatopolk son of a Jew Izi? And the author’s surname is from Samson - the son of Israel. Vague forebodings about the origin of Russia from foreigners creep in. belay

    ..the Jews consider nationality by mother .. This is not so easy .. Princess Malka = Malushka is Jewish, therefore Vladimir is the Red Sun is Jewish ... and her daughter Maria is also Jewish .. Maria’s son, Andrey Bogolyubsky, is also Jew ... It's like in a song .. Jews, Jews, all around are Jews ..
  6. Seal
    Seal 25 October 2017 14: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: Rurikovich
    But let the historical person of Christ recognize

    And how many are those who "recognize" ??
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 25 October 2017 19: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: HanTengri
    At what age did you yourself learn all the "charm" of profanity? Years at 50, not otherwise!

    Much earlier. In the fifth grade, I “bent” ... But then I realized that this way you can generally slide down to the level of “these” and stopped. I realized that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
  8. ver_
    ver_ 27 October 2017 06: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Luga
    Quote: ver_
    Madhouse in the Church Church and Humanities from history ..

    I wonder in what madhouse those lectures that you quote here, like
    Quote: ver_
    Jesus Christ = Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky

    You repeat the same mantras with such manic insistence that I wondered where you got them. Give the coordinates of the author, publication, at least something so that I can join.

    ... this is not for you .. Only the grave corrects the hunchback ..