Military Review

Indian Air Force demands close FGFA project

289
The Indian-Russian FGFA project was in jeopardy. According to the portal defensenews.com, the Indian Air Force Command demanded the closure of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project, within which it was planned for the Indian Army to create a fifth-generation fighter based on the Russian Su-57 aircraft.


In a recent report, the Indian Air Force Command reported that the FGFA program did not meet their requirements, and within its framework it would not be possible to create a plane that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter. Therefore, the Indian Air Force "does not seek to continue the FGFA program."

Indian Air Force demands close FGFA project


The report also states that the FGFA program is not capable of ensuring the creation of a fighter with a low level of secrecy. In addition, the joint Indian-Russian development is equipped with a “non-modular engine concept”, which, according to the Indian military, makes aircraft maintenance expensive and difficult.

This is not the first criticism of the FGFA program from the Indian side. Earlier in 2014, India was not satisfied with the AL-41Ф1 turbojet engines, the airborne radar, the level of stealth and the proposed weapon suspension systems.

The FGFA program was launched in 2007, its main contractor was PJSC “Company“ Sukhoi ”from the Russian side and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd from the Indian side. The countries agreed to create a fifth-generation fighter based on the Russian PAK FA, also known as the T-50 and later renamed the Su-57. A few years later, the FGFA program was renamed the Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF), but even the Indian Air Force called it the old way. As part of the first stage of the program, worth $ 295 million, the design of the Indian fighter was developed, but then the FGFA project is not progressing due to the many differences that have arisen between the parties, "Warspot".
Photos used:
http://indianmilitarynews.com/
289 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. newcomer
    newcomer 21 October 2017 17: 53 New
    39
    comparison. FGFA with f35 is still rather mediocre and hints at a lot. As I said, it is not for nothing that in India there is a sudden Sudadad.
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 21 October 2017 18: 09 New
      18
      Quote: newbie
      within its framework, it will not be possible to create an aircraft that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter

      Yes, we do not have such financial capabilities as the United States has in completing its F-35 fighter. yes
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 21 October 2017 18: 12 New
        14
        eh, we would have at least half of their fin. opportunities, we would have flown.
        1. SRC P-15
          SRC P-15 21 October 2017 18: 22 New
          28
          Quote: newbie
          eh, we would have at least half of their fin. opportunities, we would have flown.

          But with their financial capabilities, their debt with great acceleration flies up! We don’t need such flights! stop
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 21 October 2017 18: 28 New
            +9
            such a flight, we do not need. (paraphrasing the great Ozerov).
            1. Shurik70
              Shurik70 21 October 2017 20: 23 New
              20
              Quote: newbie
              comparison. FGFA with f35 pretty dull

              Why? The F-35 is touted as a stealth fifth-generation fighter-bomber. How much he is "inconspicuous of the fifth generation" is perhaps a moot point. But the FGFA was planned precisely as a stealth fifth generation fighter. So the comparison is in topic.
              Another thing is that there were doubts that the FGFA would be brought to mind in a reasonable amount of time. Here, Russia, China and Japan are "about to reach" for many years. So India will be safer to do, as it always does - to buy from others. Americans, Russians and Chinese. Yes, and to declare a tender on this matter, that they would argue, and in the end, buy a little from everyone, then compare for a long time and, as a result, buy planes easier than the 4th generation.
              1. newcomer
                newcomer 21 October 2017 20: 45 New
                10
                Shurik70, and what else does FAFFA have in common with f35, besides the fact that they are 5 generations? Well, if we assume that all people on the earth are brothers, then you are right. FAGFA_ is a heavy fighter for gaining superiority in the air (along the way, of course, he still knows a lot of things). f 35_ light bomber fighter. something like this.
                1. Shurik70
                  Shurik70 21 October 2017 21: 06 New
                  +6
                  Quote: newbie
                  FAGFA_ is a heavy fighter for gaining superiority in the air (along the way, of course, he still knows a lot of things). f 35_ light bomber fighter. something like this.

                  Compare the numbers of the existing F-35C and the planned FGFA
                  True, there is a somewhat outdated infa, FAGFA now has a fuel tank of 10300 kg
                  1. newcomer
                    newcomer 21 October 2017 21: 25 New
                    +5
                    Shurik70, well, cars of different class. what would you understand, compare FAGFA with f22.
                    1. Inok10
                      Inok10 21 October 2017 21: 56 New
                      24
                      Quote article:
                      According to defensenews.com

                      ... here is all the "news" it smells rotten ... take a look ... the source isn’t worth it ... I’ll sound the same tomorrow, the closing of the F-35 program is completely unnecessary ... the stuffing is hot, but VO reprinted ... the question is why? ... laughing
                      1. SAG
                        SAG 21 October 2017 22: 46 New
                        +9
                        Quote: Inok10
                        The Indian Air Force reported that the FGFA program does not meet their requirements, and within its framework it will not be possible to create an aircraft that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter.
                        ... close to f-35 they already have a tejas second lol
                        Earlier in 2014, India was not satisfied with the AL-41F1 turbojet engines, airborne radar station, stealth level and proposed weapons suspension systems.
                        ... they eat some mushrooms there, the guys have ambition and Wishlist more than 3,14ndos. Maybe someone is better for them, something can offer!?! Apparently the Martians offer a flying saucer with a seasonal discount of 49,99% fellow
                  2. nmaxxen
                    nmaxxen 21 October 2017 21: 29 New
                    20
                    what nonsense in the table?
                    Nitsche that FGFA has two engines, and the thrust is indicated by one?
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                  4. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 23 October 2017 08: 15 New
                    0
                    There is less fuel than fuel for Su-27, and Su-27 9.4 has a full refueling, Su-35 has up to 11 tons.
              2. kapitan92
                kapitan92 21 October 2017 21: 18 New
                16
                Earlier in 2014, India was not satisfied with the AL-41F1 turbojet engines, airborne radar station, stealth level and proposed weapons suspension systems.

                For AL 41F1, I think there are no questions. Engines of the first stage. The engine of the second stage for the Su-57 is being developed by the Design Bureau named after A. Lyulka. The first ground launch of the motor took place on November 21, 2016. Ground tests, which are still ongoing.
                The engine for the second-generation Su-57, codenamed # Product30, was first introduced without a top shell.

                About the radar. Comment of our specialist:
                This is a radar station with an active phased array and electron beam scanning. Moreover, this is not a station in the past understanding, but a certain complex, which includes several antennas. It’s not only detects the enemy and directs missiles, but in the future it will be able to act as a means of electronic suppression, and even, as some experts say, it will be able to “burn out” the electronic means of the enemy, ”

                As for the level of stealth and weapons systems, comments are redundant here, because all the information is classified.
                The plane is "raw", this is understandable, but it is !!! Bring to mind - I'm sure of it! I would like to quickly, but as for the Indians, if the horseradish “jumps” from the project with them, the woman with the cart will be easier for the mare, then it will be more expensive.
                1. nikolaev
                  nikolaev 22 October 2017 06: 52 New
                  +2
                  say thank you very much
              3. glasha3032
                glasha3032 21 October 2017 23: 36 New
                0
                But the Indians already paid us the money, and we spent it on development. How to be now?
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 00: 03 New
                  +8
                  Quote: glasha3032
                  How to be now?

                  On this topic in this tape (much lower) there is a funny version from the comrade askme.
                  Read, I think you will like it.
                2. Zveruga
                  Zveruga 23 October 2017 22: 02 New
                  0
                  Only part of the promised money was paid, and only on the FGFA project, which no one had seen in hardware. Just a picture.

                  The FGFA project has no direct relationship to PAK-FA, since PAK-FA is being developed at our expense for our Air Force.

                  The FGFA, which the Indians wanted to do on the basis of PAK-FA, will remain an unrealized project, for which nothing needs to be returned, since this is a research project.
              4. Evgeniy667b
                Evgeniy667b 22 October 2017 13: 44 New
                +5
                How many already these Indians of vileness have done. First, agree on one, and then a 180 degree turn. The mattresses were fussed around, so they sang to their tune .. This is how one should not respect oneself in order to get in touch with these (like women of the most ancient procession) Indian friends! Their problems above the roof, if a real mess of the Russian Federation will look very pale. There may be nothing to cover the enemy’s sea component, the basis of the air defense bases is squandered by everyone who is not too lazy. The Turks wanted to sell, the Saudis wanted to sell, etc. Yes, with these green pieces of paper, you can only go to one place, and real technology is good in skillful hands. In India, it’s good only to twist the tails of macaques, there are not enough Chinese on them. They will quickly clear their brains.
                1. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 23 October 2017 08: 17 New
                  0
                  So far, everything that anyone is ready to sell for green papers in the world is being sold.
          2. 1 Navigator
            1 Navigator 21 October 2017 22: 28 New
            +2
            Ha ha ha serious argument laughing
          3. Andrey NM
            Andrey NM 21 October 2017 23: 37 New
            11
            Yes, everything is much simpler. The Americans with the handles of the Indians are trying to click on our nose, to break the contract, and at the same time try to slip their F-35. Most likely they handed someone money in the Hindu leadership, or they promised money to spoil us. And then, if the contract for their F-35s does not suddenly grow together, they will throw this Indian. Well, how do they usually do it.
            1. reminin
              reminin 22 October 2017 09: 47 New
              +4
              I recall the recent tender of India for the purchase of Kalashnikov assault rifles. The main supply requirement was an iron store, and in Russia only plastic has been produced for a long time. Iron remained with Bulgaria, for which the requirements for the supplied products were calculated.
              I think this is a case from the same series under the motto "we need exactly the same" penguin "as the United States.
          4. missuris
            missuris 21 October 2017 23: 54 New
            0
            but the apple didn’t refuse, still no one needs to pay)
          5. Alexander Petrov1
            Alexander Petrov1 22 October 2017 02: 02 New
            0
            Very good, there will be one less competitor, only the United States and China will remain !?
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 21 October 2017 18: 32 New
            20
            oh yes yes. Listen, if at least one sensible thought was in your comment, I would go into polemic.
          2. hrych
            hrych 21 October 2017 18: 40 New
            40
            Quote: Young_Communist
            During the oil period, $ 120 could have been built and a 6th generation fighter

            Some people did not understand that the RF Armed Forces were re-equipped with this money, including the Boreas with the Bulava, the Yars with the Iskander, the Gauges with the GLONASS satellite constellation, etc., including the Su-57. And most importantly, the best aircraft of their class Su-34 and Su-35 were made, surpassing the potential enemy in terms of performance. And what does the 6th generation airplane mean in Bulgaria? Flying yogurt?
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. SRC P-15
                SRC P-15 21 October 2017 18: 47 New
                15
                Quote: Young_Communist
                Rearm, rearm, but not rearm

                You are mistaken! Now the military-industrial complex faces another problem - how to occupy the vacant facilities of the factories after complete re-equipment! And you say slippers ...
                1. Pirogov
                  Pirogov 21 October 2017 19: 06 New
                  13
                  Quote: SRC P-15
                  You are mistaken! Now the military-industrial complex faces another problem - how to occupy the vacant facilities of the factories after complete re-equipment! And you say slippers.

                  Well, it’s you who bent to complete rearmament yet far unfortunately. T14 tanks did not go into production, the fleet did not have an open field, the same SU 35 and SU 34 still have to do and do, etc.
                  1. sabakina
                    sabakina 21 October 2017 19: 58 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Pirogov
                    Well, it’s you who bent to complete rearmament yet far unfortunately. T14 tanks did not go into series , in the fleet of work there is not an edge, the same SU 35 and SU 34 still have to do and do, etc.

                    What? Armata will not be? belay
                    1. Pirogov
                      Pirogov 21 October 2017 21: 18 New
                      +2
                      Quote: sabakina
                      What? Armata will not be?

                      Yes, I think it will, but the series was not launched and this is a fact.
                  2. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 23 October 2017 08: 21 New
                    0
                    By Su-34, the plan expires in 2020. If there will be a recruitment before 180, then this is 4 of the year. Su-35 will leave when PAK FA goes into the series.

                    There are excess tanks in the warehouses even without T14, and partners in the political process do not make new tanks at all.
                  3. Macross
                    Macross 27 October 2017 05: 59 New
                    0
                    Yeah, they threw everything right to do military equipment. Someone started the first, and probably will finish soon. And to jump from one rail to completely different is problematic. Here the research institute will have to connect marketing, which also requires money.
                2. NordUral
                  NordUral 21 October 2017 19: 22 New
                  +1
                  Mirages tortured?
              2. hrych
                hrych 21 October 2017 18: 57 New
                21
                And what has become famous for the powerful Bulgarian military-industrial complex over the years? How many nuclear cruisers did? In space, how much did you play? And, they spoiled the monuments to Russian soldiers. Well done, Erdogan will hand you a prize, personally in the hands, or teeth, and go to another place according to the ancient traditions of bacha-bazi wassat
                P.S. you don’t get gas and transit, they gave the pipe to bashbuzuk laughing
                1. Nikolai Grek
                  Nikolai Grek 21 October 2017 21: 48 New
                  17
                  Quote: hrych
                  And what has become famous for the powerful Bulgarian military-industrial complex over the years?

                  they supplied the terrorists with weapons !!! negative negative negative laughing laughing laughing
              3. _Jack_
                _Jack_ 21 October 2017 19: 40 New
                +3
                Rearm, rearm, but not rearm.

                laughing that's for sure
          3. fzr1000
            fzr1000 21 October 2017 19: 15 New
            +4
            Yes, it cost a year and a half. Learn the materiel.
          4. 79807420129
            79807420129 21 October 2017 19: 28 New
            34
            Quote: Young_Communist
            a period of oil of $ 120 could be built and a 6th generation fighter, but some chose to transfer billions to different muddy cellists and build skyscrapers to different Caucasian academics.

            Koo koo young communist, wake up you spoil the air. During the oil period, at $ 120 Russia paid off debts with the IMF on loans taken by drunken board, paid off the debts of the USSR, not a single former Soviet republic participated in this matter, not even for a land lease during In 1941-1945, the created funds were calculated, the reserve, stabilization, and the national welfare fund, which I also want to do in Bulgaria, as I recall, I ask you to understand and forgive if you messed up something, but your trolling is not appropriate. yes
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 23 October 2017 08: 22 New
              0
              And it was precisely after Putin paid his debts to everyone that suddenly, in the West, they realized that Russia lacked democracy.
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. The comment was deleted.
        3. Evgeny Strygin
          Evgeny Strygin 21 October 2017 23: 16 New
          +1
          Yeah, right now. I remind you that today we differ from the USA only in name and position in the world.
          The volume of financing would change; the volume of drink would change.
          Like small children.
        4. NOVERU
          NOVERU 22 October 2017 01: 34 New
          +1
          yes, please turn on the printing press and stamp, refuse to bind to precious metals, etc., and voila, but only public debt, do not forget to refuse it
        5. Oleg Salov
          Oleg Salov 23 October 2017 18: 04 New
          0
          It is strange that with their financial capabilities, but Mr. is building, where is the money going?
        6. Evgeny Kazakov
          Evgeny Kazakov 24 October 2017 18: 29 New
          0
          Not half, but five times the same amount, then maybe it’s normal and drops. It’s just that in our realities we also need to take into account the corruption factor
      2. den.perfiljew
        den.perfiljew 21 October 2017 19: 18 New
        +1
        Comrade Colonel General! familiar places in your photo! have been there
      3. letinant
        letinant 21 October 2017 23: 25 New
        +7
        Yes, calm down, they need technology. And as they received a refusal, so the interest disappeared. Here is the only question, for yourself or another money to get for issuing them to the side or what preferences !? In most cases, they get the technology of their adversary. And the Indians have not been friends with us for a long time, let’s take the setup with the SU-30MKI. Themselves put the B / Y engines on new aircraft assembled in India, and then complaints about engine failure when ours saw it at F ... IN THE VILLAGE.
    2. NIKNN
      NIKNN 21 October 2017 18: 41 New
      +8
      Quote: newbie
      comparison. FGFA with f35 is still rather mediocre and hints at a lot. As I said, it is not for nothing that in India there is a sudden Sudadad.

      I fully agree that it is not worth comparing aircraft, but in this case, the Indians should only blame themselves ..., but put there even a nuclear engine, at least who interferes with the VoronezhM ground-based radar? Put avionics A35 and rejoice ... And then give guano, give a spoon ...
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 21 October 2017 18: 58 New
        18
        the fact of the matter is that they want to invent all their Wishlist with our own hands and brains and “pour” it into the iron, and bring them over the shelf with drawings and documentation. asked: but one place does not stick together, from sweet dreams?
    3. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 21 October 2017 18: 49 New
      +7
      In a recent report, the Indian Air Force command said that the FGFA program does not meet their requirements, and within its framework it will not be possible to create an aircraft that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter. Therefore, the Indian Air Force "do not seek to continue the FGFA program"

      Someone managed to inspire them with such thoughts, as well as thoughts about buying a “ready-made” F-35.
      Well, well, if the moshna allows ...
      But Americans will not share technology and licenses -
      You’ll buy ready-made plus service plus weapons and ammunition and don’t agitate!
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN 21 October 2017 19: 02 New
        +7
        Quote: Starover_Z
        You’ll buy ready-made plus service plus weapons and ammunition and don’t agitate!

        Do not go to a fortuneteller ..., well, their elite is as corrupt as the rest ..., they also have everything else on the drum. You look at the diversity of the park of any of their equipment and everything will become clear ...
    4. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 59 New
      19
      Quote: newbie
      not in vain in India there is a sudden snowfall.

      I think there is still one reason for all these biddings ... I already laid it out here, but I repeat ... very interesting and promising.
      The Radioelectronic Technologies Concern completed the development and manufacture of a test bench for the study and measurement of the characteristics of the radio photon element base, radio photon devices and transmit-receive modules (PPM) and the creation of a mock-up of radio-photon devices ROFAR. The ROFAR project is planned to be completed in 2019 after five stages of development work.

      The mock-up of the radiofoton transmitting path (PPM) ROFAR is completely built on the domestic key radiophotonic elements developed during the stage. The layout demonstrates the practical implementation of the principle of photon generation with modulation by an RF signal, as well as effective photovoltaic detection, followed by transmission of powerful nanosecond pulses over a radio path in a wide range of repetition frequencies.

      The use of radio-phased phased array antennas (ROFAR) on the ship will reduce the overall dimensions of electronic equipment by 5-7 times. Radio-phased phased array antennas will significantly expand the capabilities of modern communications and radars - their resolution will increase tenfold. If a modern locator has a radiation frequency of 10 GHz, 3 cm with a spectrum width of 1-2 GHz, then in ROFAR this frequency can be from 1 Hz to 100 GHz at the same time. In practice, this means that ROFAR can provide a detailed, three-dimensional image of what is happening at a distance of hundreds of kilometers from it. For example, at a distance of 400 km, you can not just see a person, but recognize his face.
      The carriers of this technology will be naval platforms, in particular radar stations of ships. In the future, ROFAR technology will be used on submarines of the latest projects.
      The ultra-wide bandwidth of the ROFAR signal allows you to get a practically television image in the radar range. The technology of radio photonics, in particular, should open up new opportunities for improving the “smart skin” on Russian helicopters and aircraft of the latest generation.

      According to the adviser to the first deputy general director of KRET V.G. Mikheev, ROFAR will allow us to see a plane 500 kilometers away, as if we were standing 50 meters from it at the airport, his portrait in the video range. Moreover, if necessary, this technology will allow you to look into the plane itself, to find out what people and equipment are in it, since the signal can go through any obstacles, even meter-long lead walls.
      1. newcomer
        newcomer 21 October 2017 19: 11 New
        +8
        uh nope. forest of Hindus. Under the ROFAR project, the Chinese are breathing in our backs. and here is Indian Wishlist_ tricky: to get from us what their sworn Chinese friends suffer (and I must say successfully).
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 17 New
          13
          Quote: newbie
          Under the ROFAR project, the Chinese are breathing in our backs.

          The Chinese have it all at a lower level ... but I don’t argue, they are definitely working on it. Moreover, the appearance of ROFAR on fighters devalues ​​the stealth technology altogether from the word altogether.
          And I think this development is the reason why the SU-30 and SU-35, as well as the SU-34 are in no hurry to equip AFARs, deciding to apparently put ROFARs immediately.
          1. newcomer
            newcomer 21 October 2017 20: 01 New
            +5
            you forgot to add to the list of MIG35, so neobessyut, very worried about the handsome.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 03 New
              +5
              Quote: newbie
              you forgot to add to the list of MIG35, so neobessyut, very worried about the handsome.

              The MIG-35 is sharpened for export ... it is redundant for our VKS and essentially not needed, since all the tasks that are assigned to the MIG are performed well by Sukhoi machines, moreover, in terms of performance characteristics, they are superior to the Mikoyan machine. And I think the MIG-35 will not be put ROFAR, but they will leave AFAR ZHUK-A., Who has given birth for which year.
              1. newcomer
                newcomer 21 October 2017 20: 27 New
                +6
                Stop! But what about the application for the first batch of 50 cars, immediately after passing the tests. Yes, and do not dissemble, NEXUS, I certainly do not want to once again raise the already battered palemics, but tell me what the SU 35 does, which the MIG 29K does not (I indicate it as a progenitor 35, because 35 is not formal yet)? Is not our SU30 / 35 redundant for a front-line fighter? if your statement turns out to be true, then I’m not afraid of this pathos, but we will lose the “cream” from the layer of a whole family of aircraft, and the light / medium (not important, most importantly not excessive and technically and materially) aviation itself.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 37 New
                  +7
                  Quote: newbie
                  But what about the application for the first batch of 50 cars

                  The party will be, of course, they won’t buy it from us. But again, there will be no large series for our MIG-35 videoconferencing. Its price is very close to the price of the SU-35, which is much better than the average MFI.
                  Quote: newbie
                  but tell me what SU 35 does, what MIG 29K does not

                  laughing Are you seriously? You apparently made a reservation by writing SU-35, instead of MIG-35 ... MIG-29K is a ship's version .. is it all about that? Or do we have a ship version of the MIG-35?
                  Quote: newbie
                  Is not our SU30 / 35 redundant for a front-line fighter?

                  Such a line of heavy MFIs is inherently redundant. And I believe that with the saturation of our VKS, the SU-35, SU-30 will slowly be released only for export. And we will have the main cargo of the SU-35, and in a limited series (10-15 years), the SU-57, which over time will become our main heavy IFI.
                  Quote: newbie
                  but we will lose the “cream” from the formation of a whole family of aircraft, and the light / medium (not important, most importantly, not excessive and technically and materially) aviation itself.

                  We will not lose. Since 13, the MIG design bureau has been initiating the creation of generation 5 LFIs. I think that the state is already financing this project. It will replace our 29th and 35th as a light front-line fighter. In addition, Mikoyan’s design bureau is developing a new interceptor PAK DP . So we won’t lose the “cream”.
                  1. newcomer
                    newcomer 21 October 2017 21: 04 New
                    +5
                    Well, with PAK YES AND MIG FIVE I’m calm. here about 35zhe. I noted instead of it 29K, so its glider is closer to 35, it’s fair to compare two available ones (and I didn’t mean the class of cars, namely aerobatics). but if you want, let the question be: what does the SU35 do, what does the MIG35 not do? C'mon, I can answer_ MIG35 does the same thing, but in close combat it has no equal whatsoever. (Only excuses like: fly before melee / shake must be done, only desperate dummies can say this).
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 21 October 2017 21: 11 New
                      +4
                      Quote: newbie
                      what does the SU35 do, what does the MIG35 not do?

                      Much ... their radius is not commensurable, the arsenal (I’m talking about long arm missiles), thrust-weight ratio, etc. ... these are machines that, in principle, are not correct to compare.
                      Quote: newbie
                      and in close combat he has no equal at all

                      Oh oh ... I think in close combat the MIG-35 pilot will need to puff very much against the SU-35 and not stick into the ground.
                      1. newcomer
                        newcomer 21 October 2017 21: 22 New
                        +7
                        well, it remains only to wait until the Swifts change to the 35th, the first cars go to the VKS. naturally there will be teachings. then we'll see.
                      2. tomket
                        tomket 22 October 2017 01: 48 New
                        +3
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Much ... their radius is not commensurate

                        Seriously?)))))
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Arsenal (I'm talking about long arm missiles)

                        And what kind of missiles are there long arms?))))
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        thrust-to-weight ratio

                        about the same.
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        which in principle is not correct to compare.

                        Very correct.
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        Oh oh ... I think in close combat the MIG-35 pilot will need to puff very much against the SU-35 and not stick into the ground.

                        Well, you never know what you think. To think all nonsense is not forbidden.
                    2. ProkletyiPirat
                      ProkletyiPirat 21 October 2017 23: 19 New
                      +2
                      Quote: newbie
                      only excuses of the type are not accepted: it is necessary to fly / jerk up to close combat, only desperate teapots can say this).

                      This is just a super argument! Dog dump in the era of radar and rockets? Yes, it is simply impossible! You can at least a thousand times increase the maneuverability and speed of a fighter, but still an aircraft missile will have higher maneuverability and speed and therefore the plane will be shot down by a pair of missiles with a probability of hitting 0,8-0,99.
                      1. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 22 October 2017 03: 18 New
                        +3
                        So the mattresses in Vietnam also thought so, until they began to massively land the MiGs.
                      2. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 22 October 2017 04: 01 New
                        0
                        Quote: zoolu350
                        So the mattresses in Vietnam also thought so, until they began to massively land the MiGs.

                        oooooh, yes, mega argument, you still give an example from the Second World War. The radars and rockets of that time and those of today differ as heaven and earth.
                  2. EvilLion
                    EvilLion 23 October 2017 08: 41 New
                    0
                    And who needs this LFI? By 2025, the bulk of the payroll will be filled by Su-30СМ and Su-35, the vast majority of which will be no older than 10 years with a lifespan of 30. MiG-29 options will take some part, but even Algerian MiG-29СМТ will be only 16 years old. A little more Su-27СМ3 and Su-30М2 and, apparently, 50-70 Su-57. It is clear that the Su-57 will be produced independently of and despite, but for new machines there will only be an opportunity to replace the latest Su-27СМ and MiG-31. That is, the prospect is emerging that new aircraft can be produced either for export or shove uncritically important machines like the small Su-27СМ3 and MiG-29СМТ for the same export. If the MiG-35 goes into a notable series, then it will also take up some places in the payroll, and these cars will be brand new. Where is the LFI supposed to be shoved?
              2. Incvizitor
                Incvizitor 22 October 2017 01: 00 New
                0
                As for me it would be better MiG at once 31x replacement engaged closely than the 35th sculpt.
                As a result, we have a lot of old MiG 31s, which there is nothing now in the long term to replace and the almost ready 35th, which we do not really need.
                1. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 23 October 2017 08: 41 New
                  0
                  But what the hell do we need a new MiG-31? Who to chase?
              3. tomket
                tomket 22 October 2017 01: 31 New
                +2
                Quote: NEXUS
                MIG-35 is sharpened for export ... it is redundant for our VKS and essentially unnecessary, since all the tasks that are assigned to the MIG are performed well by Sukhoi machines, and in terms of performance characteristics they are superior to the Mikoyan machine.

                By what performance characteristics do they excel? In general, not so long ago an interesting table flashed here about the cost of an hour from the United States. So, f-16 and f-18 differ by two dollars, but the cost of f-15 is almost twice as high. This is by the way to all Sukhoi lovers who believe that heavy barrels of every barrel are a gag.
                1. just exp
                  just exp 22 October 2017 08: 15 New
                  0
                  read at least about custom flights of tourists, there at Sukhoi the price of a flight is not much higher than that of Miga.
                  because the mass is higher, but not by much, as well as the same 2 engines.
                  1. tomket
                    tomket 22 October 2017 14: 29 New
                    0
                    Quote: just EXPL
                    but not by much, as well as the same 2 engine.

                    The F-18 also has two engines. And only two dollars more expensive than the f-16.
                2. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 23 October 2017 11: 56 New
                  0
                  According to flight data.

                  Familiarize yourself with the equation of existence of the aircraft and do not write nonsense. And the more the cost of the aircraft falls on the equipment, the more profitable it becomes a heavy aircraft.
          2. just exp
            just exp 22 October 2017 08: 14 New
            0
            this is not a reason to change VFAR to AFAR, but explains why our stealth is made of secondary quality, and the main thing remains maneuverability.
          3. ZVO
            ZVO 22 October 2017 17: 58 New
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS

            And I think this development is the reason why the SU-30 and SU-35, as well as the SU-34 are in no hurry to equip AFARs, deciding to apparently put ROFARs immediately.

            You just need to understand that it is impossible to jump over the technological step!
            Just because theory is very different from practice.
            Physic theorists can do something. but technologists cannot.
            It is impossible to build a diesel-electric locomotive from a horse-drawn train, bypassing a steam locomotive.
            You cannot jump from a wooden sloop into a modern aircraft carrier.
            Be sure to work out all the technological stages of production of all intermediate "points".
            So it is with ROFAR.
            If we don’t have a single actually operating spent at least a couple of hundred units, serial AFAR. It’s impossible to jump to the production of ROFAR.
            For science is one thing, and technologists rule the world.
        2. albert
          albert 21 October 2017 22: 33 New
          +4
          Hindus cannot be trusted, they all merge the TTX of our aircraft to the Yankees. It may be better that the project is closed. They cannot be trusted, the story of our Su-30s can be repeated.
      2. SergeBS
        SergeBS 21 October 2017 20: 38 New
        +3
        Quote: NEXUS
        I think there is still one reason for all these biddings ... I already laid it out here, but I repeat ... very interesting and promising.

        No need to spread nonsense with "pseudoscientific words." Especially touches
        Quote: NEXUS
        the signal can go through any obstacles, even meter long lead walls.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 41 New
          +7
          Quote: SergeBS
          No need to spread nonsense with "pseudoscientific words." Especially touches

          Seriously? ... this nonsense, as you put it, I found on the official website of KRET.
          Quote: SergeBS
          Especially touches

          Yes, be moved to health.
          1. ZVO
            ZVO 22 October 2017 18: 03 New
            0
            Quote: NEXUS

            Yes, be moved to health.


            Alas. but he is right.
            Sometime in the early 2000s, I had 6 hours of waiting at the Syzran train station.
            With nothing to do, I went to wander around the local market, which is 500 meters from the station.
            The seller "steamed" an active television antenna, which were then fashionable in some circles, claiming that it, like a magnet, attracts all the radio waves to itself ...
            I wanted to ask, but will they “select” the neighboring part of the radio waves? It will attract ...
            So here - there are axioms unshakable physicists. And the propagation of radio waves is an axiom ...
      3. GAF
        GAF 21 October 2017 20: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        because the signal can go through any obstacles, even meter long lead walls.

        But bending the stick somehow is not solid. You can break it, almost by swinging at the neutrino physics ..
      4. 9lvariag
        9lvariag 21 October 2017 20: 44 New
        0
        Nexus - where is this from? Interesting article.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: 9lvariag
          Nexus - where is this from? Interesting article.

          http://kret.com/media/news/zavershen-pervyy-etap-
          issledovaniya-v-ramkakh-okr-rofar /
      5. opus
        opus 22 October 2017 00: 39 New
        +4
        Quote: NEXUS
        Moreover, if necessary, this technology will allow you to look into the plane itself, to find out what people and equipment are in it, since the signal can go through any obstacles, even meter-long lead walls.

        bullshit
    5. Nikolai Grek
      Nikolai Grek 21 October 2017 21: 44 New
      +6
      Quote: newbie
      comparison. FGFA with f35 is still rather mediocre and hints at a lot. As I said, it is not for nothing that in India there is a sudden Sudadad.

      maybe the Indians meant that the Russians can’t make the same mediocre car as the FE35 !!! wassat wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing
  2. Zubr
    Zubr 21 October 2017 17: 57 New
    25
    smile Well, let them fly to the F-35. We obviously wanted to get our technology, in exchange for a contract for the purchase of an installation batch. That's right, we are not a cash cow. Let's see how Europe and America start milking them.

    The client has not yet matured.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 10 New
      13
      Quote: Zubr
      The client has not yet matured.

      The client, as you put it, is in a hurry and there is a reason ... China is at the finish line with its fighter pair (of its own production), plus our SU-35 and S-400 are buying ... add to this the rapidly growing Chinese fleet and their strong dislike in relation to the Indians. So we are not here in the role of those who ask, but India.
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 21 October 2017 18: 38 New
        +9
        If these “dancers” manage to drop the flashes and drying as if they were “hang gliders”, then “who is the doctor to them?” I’m still being taken aback by their internal investigation "which revealed the installation of one new and one old engine on aircraft" belay !! These cranks have been “sawing” their tank for so many years and chasing our thousand - “theirs” as they had G., so G. .. remained. Where do they need the technologies of our aviation (not for sale to the Americans), what will they do with them? Even the Chinese, with all their copyright and cheating, fly on niche engines "a stone flower doesn’t come out" (zapar, mm in the heads repeat ) It is clearly necessary to "agree" and "suspend" the project until TAM changes their minds and crawls back. After all, it is the Indians who drive the Americans on Sushki, and not vice versa. good
      2. Zubr
        Zubr 21 October 2017 19: 01 New
        +1
        Let me disagree with you.
        China at the finish line with its fighter pair (own production)


        Yes, there was information, they were already being released into the series. But we also got smarter, closed our defense industry technologies, and did the right thing. I don’t like relations between India and China either, a kind of silent tolerance.
    2. Don
      Don 21 October 2017 18: 16 New
      +8
      Quote: Zubr
      Well, let them fly to the F-35. We obviously wanted to get our technology, in exchange for a contract for the purchase of an installation batch. That's right, we are not a cash cow. Let's see how Europe and America start milking them.

      The T-50 project without Indians will be covered with a copper basin, or they will be released in a small series from 24 to 48 units. The joint production of FGFA was supposed to reduce the cost of production of the Su-57. Initially, it was clear that Russia alone could not pull such an ambitious project. That is why, the military were reinsured in advance and purchased a large number of Su-30СМ. A way out could be the development of a "budget" version of the fifth generation heavy fighter with the expectation of the markets of not rich countries like Vietnam, Azhir, Indonesia, etc.
      1. Zubr
        Zubr 21 October 2017 18: 55 New
        +4
        Zyoma, I think so, and without them, we will pull everything out, not in the first ..
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 21 October 2017 19: 29 New
          +5
          We’ll pull it out, but only when our financial system becomes independent from anyone! And when all or most of the power will be in the hands of real patriots, not mummers. And with these - stretch your legs.
          1. Zubr
            Zubr 21 October 2017 19: 32 New
            +2
            And with these - we will stretch our legs.


            Do not wait .. smile
        2. Serg koma
          Serg koma 22 October 2017 09: 34 New
          0
          Quote: Zubr
          I think so, and without them we will pull everything out, not in the first ..

          Only who (or what projects) with such "pulling" the "belt tighten" will have to ???
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 October 2017 19: 03 New
        +6
        "The T-50 project without Indians will be covered with a copper basin, or they will be released in a small series from 24 to 48 units." ///

        I completely agree with you. I have been posting here for three years now that we must bet on a joint project: the same fighter for the air forces of two countries. Otherwise, the T-50 will "wither away" without money. Indians have 1) money 2) a good base on software and electronics.
        They don’t need to portray the "big brother", but compromise on the performance characteristics of the aircraft and
        and do it together.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 22 New
          19
          Quote: voyaka uh
          I have been posting here for three years now that we must bet on a joint project: the same fighter for the air forces of two countries.

          Absolute stupidity. Firstly, our SU-57 is single in contrast to what the Indians want, namely the spark. And this is a completely different machine. Secondly, why don't we tell Indians how to transfer secret technology in a promising fighter complex? And thirdly, where did you get the idea that we alone will not pull the SU-57 project?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 22 October 2017 10: 04 New
            +3
            "And thirdly, where did you get the idea that we alone will not pull the draft SU-57?" ///

            Financially. Military Aviation Budget Sprayed Between Nearly 10 Types
            airplanes. For each type, pennies remain. Which is enough only for a single production.
            Understand, I consider the Su-57 a good plane, the best of what is.
            And it must be brought to the end at all costs.
            But we must think about the scale of equipping them with the Air Force. Two squadrons of weather will not.
            Cooperation with India gives such a scale.
          2. ZVO
            ZVO 22 October 2017 18: 31 New
            0
            Quote: NEXUS
            Quote: voyaka uh
            I have been posting here for three years now that we must bet on a joint project: the same fighter for the air forces of two countries.

            Absolute stupidity. Firstly, our SU-57 is single in contrast to what the Indians want, namely the spark. And this is a completely different machine. Secondly, why don't we tell Indians how to transfer secret technology in a promising fighter complex? And thirdly, where did you get the idea that we alone will not pull the SU-57 project?


            If only because. what they proposed, and ours agreed, to take almost 10 billion dollars into the development of PAK-FA with the transfer of technology ...
            And ours again built a plane alas with other people's money ...
        2. Gransasso
          Gransasso 21 October 2017 19: 29 New
          19
          Maybe the Indians, unlike the patriotic public, know the true state of affairs with the su-57 not from the Zvezda TV commercials .... and in the course of the true values ​​of its EPR .. and how things are with AFAR ... with the engines ... with weapons systems, etc., etc. ... and they start to dry the oars ....
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 34 New
            15
            Quote: Gransasso
            Maybe the Indians, unlike the patriotic public, know the true state of affairs with the su-57 not from the Zvezda TV commercials .... and in the course of the true values ​​of its EPR .. and how things are with AFAR ... with the engines ... with weapons systems, etc., etc. ... and they start to dry the oars ....

            Dear, well, do not spray your saliva like that, especially not understanding the essence of the conversation. Everything is fine with the Su-57, and next year it will go to state tests, and after that it will go to the troops for military tests with an experimental series. With AFAR Squirrel, everything is fine with him, as well as with the new arsenal. Product 30 is already being tested, and in 18 flight tests of the SU-57 with second-stage engines were scheduled.
            Do not know how to troll, do not handle, otherwise it looks very funny.
          2. fzr1000
            fzr1000 21 October 2017 21: 16 New
            +2
            Where our designers to the Indians.
        3. _Jack_
          _Jack_ 21 October 2017 19: 43 New
          +1
          I think if really
          The T-50 project without Indians will be covered with a copper basin
          then they understand this upstairs and they will have to
          not to portray the "big brother", but to compromise on the performance characteristics of the aircraft and
          and do it together
          and if pulled without India, they will complete it alone.
          Or maybe the Indians are bargaining so much to get key technologies, it's in their style.
          We will find out soon.
        4. SergeBS
          SergeBS 21 October 2017 21: 02 New
          +6
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Indians have 1) money 2) a good base on software and electronics.

          Under item 1 (money): announce the GDP of India (comparative).
          POI.2 (GOOD BASE ...): Well, Indian programmers are the cheapest. We look at the Internet Explorer (the Indians did) and admire the "quality". As for electronics - even more interesting: where is it made in India? I would like to know - where is not the small-town "factory for tinning pots and dummies", but something like microcontrollers are riveting, well, okay, at least audio codecs ...
          1. Gransasso
            Gransasso 21 October 2017 21: 15 New
            +1
            GDP
            India 2,26 trillion USD (2016)

            Great Britain
            2,62 trillion USD (2016)

            Russia
            1,28 trillion USD (20Ban

            Source: World Bank
            1. Nikolai Grek
              Nikolai Grek 21 October 2017 21: 58 New
              +9
              Quote: Gransasso
              GDP
              India 2,26 trillion USD (2016)

              Great Britain
              2,62 trillion USD (2016)

              Russia
              1,28 trillion USD (20Ban

              Source: World Bank

              Well, now for consolidation and objectivity, give out the population of India !!! wassat wassat lol lol lol
        5. Nikolai Grek
          Nikolai Grek 21 October 2017 21: 55 New
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          "The T-50 project without Indians will be covered with a copper basin, or they will be released in a small series from 24 to 48 units." ///

          I completely agree with you. I have been posting here for three years now that we must bet on a joint project: the same fighter for the air forces of two countries. Otherwise, the T-50 will "wither away" without money. Indians have 1) money 2) a good base on software and electronics.
          They don’t need to portray the "big brother", but compromise on the performance characteristics of the aircraft and
          and do it together.

          India has a lot of direct money !!! wassat wassat wassat lol lol lol
        6. hrych
          hrych 21 October 2017 22: 07 New
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          I've been posting here for three years now

          While you are posting here already the seventh prototype has been assembled and it is still named Su-57, which indicates the beginning of serial production, but for the VKS. And nothing to be confused with FGFA
          Quote: voyaka uh
          there is 1) money 2) a good base on software and electronics

          Is Jewish electronics really wassat The project gives the Indians a 25% share in the project, including financing. This is the fifth paw, so to speak, and the calculation for a guaranteed order in the future and nothing more. Therefore, do not rejoice much here laughing
          Quote: voyaka uh
          and do it together

          If there are contradictions, it’s only that we don’t intend to share technologies with secrets, that Indians always beg for it and of course they don’t have much interest for they don’t really have control with it laughing
        7. Vlad.by
          Vlad.by 21 October 2017 22: 50 New
          +1
          I don’t know what about the money, but where did the Indians get "a good base on software and especially on electronics" ???
          What can they do that we ourselves cannot?
          India does not have as many microelectronics manufacturers as China, and the fact that the Indians own a large number of software companies does not mean that India is the leading manufacturer of software products.
          For example, the same States can’t finish the program code for F-35 in any way, although in the States most software manufacturers are under the flag of the Indians.
          Give, plz, examples of serious algorithmic problems solved by Indian programmers.
        8. kirgiz58
          kirgiz58 21 October 2017 23: 02 New
          +3
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Good software and electronics base.

          There is no worse disaster in the world than editing the code of Indian software. Programmers definition: "crutch on crutch and crutch backed."
        9. Vadim237
          Vadim237 21 October 2017 23: 34 New
          0
          T 50 and will produce a series of up to 120 aircraft, and then the sixth generation will take off, they have been working on it for several years in Russia.
          1. Gransasso
            Gransasso 22 October 2017 00: 01 New
            +4
            Quote: Vadim237
            T 50 and will produce a series of up to 120 aircraft, and then the sixth generation will take off, they have been working on it for several years in Russia.




            And there they will modernize again something like once again the su-27 .. they will call it the newest supersigner of the su-100500 ... so that there is at least something to fly ... and they will go right to the 7th generation ...
      3. hrych
        hrych 21 October 2017 19: 07 New
        11
        Quote: Donskoy
        Initially, it was clear that Russia could not pull such an ambitious project alone.

        Ha ha ha ha !!! How touching. And the project of Borey boats is easier to pull than an airplane, which by the way is almost ready. Russia would pull such sages as you, but I think in India there will be even more of them, if wassat
      4. fzr1000
        fzr1000 21 October 2017 21: 15 New
        +1
        Rave. ....
      5. opus
        opus 22 October 2017 00: 42 New
        +2
        Quote: Donskoy
        Initially, it was clear that Russia could not pull such an ambitious project alone.

        nonsense complete. do not hurt you she-scream
        Quote: Donskoy
        The solution could be the development of a “budget” version of a heavy fifth-generation fighter with a view to the markets of non-rich countries like Vietnam, Azhir, Indonesia, etc.

        they and 4 + cannot afford to buy for money

        and that such
        "budget" version of the fifth generation heavy fighter

        F-22?
        or
        Chengdu J-20?
    3. Vita vko
      Vita vko 21 October 2017 18: 18 New
      +7
      Quote: Zubr
      wanted to get our technology

      Rather resell at a speculative price. There, American and Israeli intelligence have lined up for a long time.
      1. Zubr
        Zubr 21 October 2017 18: 54 New
        +3
        I absolutely agree with you!
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 October 2017 19: 07 New
        0
        There are very few technologies that should be hunted. Only engine blade technology ... I don’t see anything else.
        And so Russia becomes a "dog in the manger." Neither to himself, nor to a very profitable partner who pays in cash in cash.
        1. Zubr
          Zubr 21 October 2017 19: 25 New
          10
          Here you are so smart and fluffy, well, you would take and offer co-production. So no, you purchased the F-35. Well, good luck to you. Somehow do without your advice.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 25 New
          13
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Only engine blade technology ... I don’t see anything else.

          Seriously? And the arsenal? Or do the Indians have their own groundwork on this issue? And the production technology of the airframe itself? Or do you think that this is far from a secret and everything is easy and simple? I just sketched it for you ...
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Neither to himself, nor to a very profitable partner who pays in cash in cash.

          The purely Jewish approach of a tradesman ... but tell me, my dear, why didn’t they export F-22 mattresses? M
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 21 October 2017 21: 57 New
            +1
            "but tell me, my dear, why didn’t they send F-22 mattresses for export?" // ::
            ----
            And very sorry about that. Both R&D would be paid back, and the plane would be in a constant “upgrade”. And so it is outdated in software and electronics. Same thing: "dog in the manger."
        3. NordUral
          NordUral 21 October 2017 19: 31 New
          +2
          And what is it, my friend, that your soul is so worried about “our” oligarchs?
        4. The brightest
          The brightest 21 October 2017 19: 33 New
          +6
          Ho-ho ... the damned people the god-killer here something spoke about a dog in the manger)) Who then asks you what to do with our technologies?
        5. SergeBS
          SergeBS 21 October 2017 21: 11 New
          +3
          Quote: voyaka uh
          There are very few technologies that should be hunted. Only engine blade technology ... I don’t see anything else.

          Yeah. The Chinese have an engine resource on their exterminators - an order of magnitude lower than ours. And with the thrust vector - also a problem. For example. laughing

          Quote: voyaka uh
          And so Russia becomes a "dog in the manger." Neither to himself, nor to a very profitable partner who pays in cash in cash.

          And this is a "national approach": "well, sell for cheaper shekels, I also want to ... And I will resell and" get enough "on this" laughing
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 21 October 2017 22: 05 New
            +2
            The Russian national approach will lead to the fact that several copies of the S-57 will occupy worthy places in aviation museums (they will be talked about with admiration),
            some will represent Swifts at air parades, and the VKS will fly on the Su-30.
            (Under cover of the threat, use ICBMs, if that ....)
            It's a pity sad
            1. Lex.
              Lex. 21 October 2017 22: 32 New
              +2
              Like Lavi, for example?
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 22 October 2017 00: 19 New
                0
                Exactly. The same case.
            2. Vadim237
              Vadim237 21 October 2017 23: 41 New
              0
              They will fly on Su 35 and Mig 35 - on five six of these aircraft, there will be one ton 50 - why, but because its price is like two Su 35 - under 4 billion rubles apiece, Russia is still not so rich that it would be so much give away for a fighter.
  3. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 21 October 2017 17: 58 New
    +3
    Well, something like this. Looks like they were aiming for the F-35. The question is whether the United States will go to technology transfer. Although when you consider the factories involved in the production of F-35, located in Britain, Turkey, Italy and Israel, they may well.

    https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...rce-wants-o
    ut-of-fighter-program-with-russia /


    NEW DELHI - An ambitious Indo-Russian program worth 10 billions of dollars for the joint development and production of fifth-generation fighters, or FGFAs, faces a new serious obstacle, as the Indian Air Force demands to terminate the project.
    The leading IAF leadership recently expressed concern over the Department of Defense, saying that the proposed FGFA program in Russia does not meet the desired requirements, such as the capabilities of F-35 US fighters, a senior IAF officer said. The official added that "the IAF is not keen to continue the program."
    The proposed FGFA program does not correspond to the desired stealth and EPR compared to the F-35 fighter, the official explained, therefore significant structural changes are needed that cannot be performed in existing Russian prototypes.
    FGFA also lacks a modular engine concept, which makes maintenance and fleet maintenance expensive and complex. The second service representative said that a modular engine concept is necessary for the convenience of maintenance and the availability of FGFA aircraft as soon as possible, as this can be done by the user. The Russians proposed non-modular engines for the FGFA, and its maintenance and other relationships can only be decided by the manufacturer.
    Wijinder K Thakur, the retired IAF squadron leader and defense analyst, disagrees with the assessment of these opportunities, saying that without the participation of American fighters, the IAF is unlikely to make judgment on the comparative long-term operational costs of Russian and American fighters.
    1. newcomer
      newcomer 21 October 2017 18: 05 New
      +6
      in my opinion, this Thakur (more or less familiar with his statements), the only sane special from aviation.
    2. Vita vko
      Vita vko 21 October 2017 18: 25 New
      +5
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      when you consider the factories involved in the production of F-35

      screwdriver assembly, the process is certainly not easy. But the level of localization of production of 5-10% as done by Britain, Turkey, Italy and Israel will suit India even if it is backed by American loans.
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 45 New
      13
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      Looks like they were aiming for the F-35.

      F-35 and Spark SU-57 are fighters of a slightly different class and weight category, don’t you think? You cannot replace a fighter with a range of 2500 km with a fighter-bomber with a radius of 800 km. Moreover, they have different tasks, from the word at all. 57 is a fighter for gaining dominance in the air, and F-35 is a fighter-bomber, which, to put it mildly, “dog dumps” is harmful to health.
      1. Kurare
        Kurare 21 October 2017 18: 58 New
        +7
        Quote: NEXUS
        F-35 and SU-57 spark are fighters of a slightly different class and weight category, don’t you think? You cannot replace a fighter with a range of 2500 km with a fighter-bomber with a radius of 800 km.

        I think what Aron Zaavi had in mind - this is a very aggressive work of the American military lobby for the Indian refusing to work together with Russia in favor of the F-35. And the fact that the aircraft in their conception, to put it mildly different, plays no role. Exclusively political background.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 03 New
          11
          Quote: Kurare
          I think what Aron Zaavi had in mind - this is a very aggressive work of the American military lobby for the Indian refusing to work together with Russia in favor of the F-35.

          You are mistaken. This is a matter of national security and defense, as China is only increasing its power. And killing cooperation on the SU-57 twinning in favor of the uncertain prospects for the purchase of the F-35 is a direct blow to the country's defense. And in this regard, time works against the Indians.
          1. Kurare
            Kurare 21 October 2017 20: 28 New
            +5
            Quote: NEXUS
            You are mistaken. This is a matter of national security and defense, as China is only increasing its power.

            If you don’t understand Russia with your mind, then probably about India something like this: “don’t try to find your mind there”.

            If the Indians understood that it was a matter of national security, would they sculpt their under-tank Arjun 2 or under-plane Tejas?

            The situation reminds me of Russia in the 90s, when everything was sold, including the national treasure and national security. But there is a big difference: in Russia this is called theft, and in India it is called Indian business. The Anglo-Saxons simply suggested more to someone who could hack this project, not to mention the Indian press.
            1. Vlad.by
              Vlad.by 21 October 2017 23: 10 New
              +1
              Well, it's you in vain! The projects of Arjun and Tejas are precisely concern for the defense capabilities of India in the distant and not very perspective. The fact that now there are resources for the purchase of imported equipment does not guarantee such opportunities in the future. Already, they understand that a military conflict with the same Pakistan and even more so with China will lead to problems in the supply of troops within a couple of weeks from the start of the conflict. But, the Indian economic system does not yet allow mass and high-quality production of high-tech nishtyaki. Even subject to technology transfer. They think that if they buy Western technology, it will suddenly become easier to teach an Indian worker not to make a marriage. Well, well - a flag in hand.
              But, firstly, no one will give them critical technologies,
              Secondly, it will be even more difficult to solve the issue of quality in production of, say, French engines than with Russian ones.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 21 October 2017 19: 15 New
        +3
        I can agree about different classes, but that’s not the point.
        And in time. The Hindus realized that their adversary, Pakistan, would receive the 5th generation earlier than the Su-57 series in Russia. India will stay from 4th versus 5th. And this is almost certainly a rout, a beating of babies.
        Meanwhile, the F-35, despite all the poison in his address, bakes like fresh pies. Flies.
        And the recipients do not complain.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 28 New
          +7
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And in time. The Hindus realized that their adversary, Pakistan, would receive the 5th generation earlier than the Su-57 series in Russia.

          The Indians have more headaches, not for Pakistan, but for China ... although, as I said above, time works in any case against the Indians.
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Meanwhile, the F-35, despite all the poison in his address, bakes like fresh pies. Flies.
          And the recipients do not complain.

          Yes to health, who argues that ... only to you Israelis such plane with such radius will fit, but I am afraid of India not. The sizes of countries are different, threats are different, etc.
        2. Kurare
          Kurare 21 October 2017 21: 02 New
          +7
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Hindus realized that their adversary, Pakistan, would receive the 5th generation earlier than the Su-57 series in Russia. India will stay from 4th versus 5th. And this is almost certainly a rout, a beating of babies.

          For more details, please, what kind of 5th generation will Pakistan get in the near future? If you mean a Chinese product, then the 5th generation smells very distant: the engine from the Su-27, low EPR is also doubtful. So who will beat whom is another question.
          1. Gransasso
            Gransasso 21 October 2017 21: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: Kurare
            If you mean a Chinese product, then the 5th generation smells very distant: the engine from the Su-27,



            On a Chinese plane of the 5th generation, it’s not an engine from the Su-27 .. and not at all Russian ....
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 21 October 2017 21: 16 New
              +8
              Quote: Gransasso
              On a Chinese plane of the 5th generation, it’s not an engine from the Su-27 .. and not at all Russian ....

              There is WS-10G, a clone AL-31f, only with significantly worse motor resources. WS-10 is put on a clone of the Su-27th J-11.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 21 October 2017 21: 19 New
                +8
                Quote: Kurare
                There is WS-10G, a clone AL-31f, only with significantly worse motor resources. WS-10 is put on a clone of the Su-27th J-11.

                Shh ... don't scare ... wink
                1. Kurare
                  Kurare 21 October 2017 21: 21 New
                  +5
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Shh ... don't scare ... wink

                  smile Yes, I quietly, on tiptoe ...
              2. Gransasso
                Gransasso 21 October 2017 21: 23 New
                0
                Quote: Kurare
                There is WS-10G, a clone AL-31f, only with significantly worse motor resources. WS-10 is put on a clone of the Su-27th J-11.
                Yet...



                There is a WS-15 ...


                https://tiananmenstremendousachievements.wordpres
                s.com/tag/ws-15/
                1. Kurare
                  Kurare 21 October 2017 21: 33 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Gransasso
                  There is a WS-15 ...

                  ... which should be an improved version of WS-10. But there are no fundamental changes compared to the WS-10 and AL-31, not to mention its belonging to fifth-generation engines. To AL-41, an intermediate for the Su-57, he just does not hold out.
              3. Vlad.by
                Vlad.by 21 October 2017 23: 13 New
                +2
                And not only with the resource ...
        3. fzr1000
          fzr1000 21 October 2017 21: 18 New
          +3
          China does not have 5 generations. They even have 4 of their own.
        4. Lex.
          Lex. 21 October 2017 22: 35 New
          +5
          Pakistan will receive the 5th generation sooner than in Russia will enter the Su-57 series. India will stay from 4th against 5th
          Do not rely so much on stealth technology. Technology is very doubtful. It may turn out to be like in Yugoslavia.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 21 October 2017 23: 43 New
            0
            In Yugoslavia was the first - the most raw generation of stealth F 117.
        5. tomket
          tomket 22 October 2017 01: 36 New
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          The Hindus realized that their adversary Pakistan will receive the 5-e generation before it enters the Su-57 series in Russia

          And where is Pakistan going to take the 5 generation ???? And where is the money from?
        6. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 22 October 2017 02: 16 New
          +1
          And in what serious “dump” did F 35 manage to defeat?
      3. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 21 October 2017 20: 02 New
        0
        Quote: NEXUS
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        Looks like they were aiming for the F-35.

        F-35 and Spark SU-57 are fighters of a slightly different class and weight category, don’t you think? You cannot replace a fighter with a range of 2500 km with a fighter-bomber with a radius of 800 km. Moreover, they have different tasks, from the word at all. 57 is a fighter for gaining dominance in the air, and F-35 is a fighter-bomber, which, to put it mildly, “dog dumps” is harmful to health.

        I think of course. But firstly, F-35 can take in quantity, secondly, who didn’t cancel the PTB, and thirdly, where do the Indians go to 2500 km?
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 10 New
          +8
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          But firstly, the F-35 can take in quantity

          Are you seriously? wassat How much do you think the maintenance of the F-35 fleet will cost? Or do you want to say that the purchase amount of the F-35 will be limited only by the price for the planes themselves? And the service, and the arsenal, and the training? Or mattresses, out of goodness of mind, will all this be provided to them?
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          third well, where are the Indians flying 2500 km?

          Heavy MFIs are imprisoned to fly deep into the territory of the enemy, escorting bombers, breaking through enemy air defenses, striking deep, destroying infrastructure, command facilities, warehouses and so on ... for that they are multi-purpose ...
        2. Gransasso
          Gransasso 21 October 2017 20: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          I think of course. But firstly, F-35 can take in quantity, secondly, who didn’t cancel the PTB, and thirdly, where do the Indians go to 2500 km?




          And where did the figure of 2500 km from the su-57 come from? ... is it really the combat radius of it? ... with what load and at what speeds can it fly 2500 km .. and another 2500 to return to the base?
        3. Kurare
          Kurare 21 October 2017 20: 37 New
          +6
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          ... secondly, no one canceled the PTB ...

          After all, the Indians just because of the allegedly large EPR of the FGFA want to abandon the project, but what will happen to the EPR of the F-35 when the PTB is suspended on it?
          Quote: Aaron Zawi
          and thirdly, where do the Indians fly 2500 km?

          The Indians have always emphasized the great range of the Su-30 as a huge plus for this aircraft. So they have a lot to fly far.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 47 New
            +5
            Quote: Kurare
            But what will happen to the EPR of the F-35 when it is suspended from the PTB?

            And pendant rockets wink
          2. MadCat
            MadCat 22 October 2017 03: 36 New
            0
            Quote: Kurare
            After all, the Indians just because of the allegedly large EPR of the FGFA want to abandon the project, but what will happen to the EPR of the F-35 when the PTB is suspended on it?

            PTBs are dropped before the battle, like f16 and f15 ...
            1. Kurare
              Kurare 22 October 2017 13: 16 New
              +3
              Quote: MadCat
              PTBs are dropped before the battle, like f16 and f15 ...

              Will the holders also be dropped? But they significantly increase the EPR!

              Do not forget that before dropping the PTB F-35s will already be detected by air defense systems. And then what, dog dump, where the F-35 is obviously in a losing situation?
    4. Roma
      Roma 1977 21 October 2017 19: 24 New
      0
      Incomplete production - ceiling.
  4. alekc75
    alekc75 21 October 2017 17: 58 New
    +3
    let them take it from them, they will give them everything for free along with technology !!
  5. LSA57
    LSA57 21 October 2017 18: 00 New
    19
    As part of the first phase of the program, worth $ 295 million, the design of an Indian fighter was developed, but the FGFA project does not advance further due to the many disagreements that arose between the parties, Warspot reports.

    when a lady leaves the car, it increases speed. but easier to say, a woman with a cart, the mare is easier
  6. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 21 October 2017 18: 01 New
    11
    That is, the Indians believe that the FGFA is too good and they need UGs like Fu-35? Well, breaking - not building))) For a fee, you can make FGFA the same "well not working."
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 05 New
      20
      Quote: stock buildbat
      That is, the Indians believe that the FGFA is too good and they need UGs like the Fu-35?

      They need more than just FGFA in the final product for 150 million ... they need technology and production on their territory. And our side showed them where the sleeve is sewn.
      1. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 21 October 2017 18: 15 New
        13
        The Hindus, therefore, are trying to buy weapons from everyone indiscriminately, in the hope of in any case taking advantage of technology. I understand that all over the world everyone is eager to buy the best, with a detailed production guide. But I don’t understand the logic of our leadership - the fifth (!) Generation of PAK FA fighters, just to take and sell? What for? Money? Rave. Shake the oligarchs, and the vodka Ossetian mafia. There trillions of rubles are spinning.
        1. NordUral
          NordUral 21 October 2017 19: 37 New
          +3
          But I do not understand the logic of our leadership


          The big question is - is this our guide? Ours would have long been more than one hundred supreme thieves in prison. The country would have its own independent financial system. We would leave the WTO. And there would be much more that was useful to the country and people. And so - the minimum possible and continuous urya-urya.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 21 October 2017 23: 46 New
            0
            Shake the oligarchs - their enterprises, which must be said, will pay decent taxes to the state budget will also be shocked.
        2. _Jack_
          _Jack_ 21 October 2017 19: 51 New
          +2
          What for? Money? Rave.

          The fact of the matter is that it’s not nonsense, we can already bring the plane to mind without India, this is understandable, but you can’t count on mass production without Indian money, there is no money for this in the budget.
          Shake the oligarchs

          Our leadership is not capable of this; their oligarchs are inviolable.
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 21 October 2017 18: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: NEXUS
        And our side showed them where the sleeve is sewn.

        Rather, it is not the Indians who are not satisfied with this project. Ours decided it was too early to scatter the SU-57 around the world!
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 22 October 2017 00: 31 New
        +1
        "they need technology and production on their territory" ////

        The fact that the project was stopped was not announced by government officials, but by Air Force officers. It doesn’t give a damn where the plane was made and whether the technology was transferred.
        Pilots want to fly. But not on anything. And the Su-57 is stuck in prototypes, and the joint doesn't smell.
        China is ahead of Russia. sad This is clear to everyone except the Russians.
        Therefore, the Indians grabbed Rafali to at least have something modern. Not an AFAR at the stand, but an AFAR in a serial airplane.
        1. tomket
          tomket 22 October 2017 01: 53 New
          +6
          Quote: voyaka uh
          China is ahead of Russia. This is clear to everyone except the Russians.

          This is clear only to the Jews)))))
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Therefore, the Indians grabbed Rafali to have at least something modern

          Do you knowingly distort the facts? or because of inborn harm? After all, when there was a tender for Rafal, there were no smells of any delays on t-50. Exactly as they organized the tender by no means out of hopelessness, they say no AFAR give us anything, agree on everything. Do not write nonsense.
    2. faiver
      faiver 21 October 2017 18: 10 New
      0
      and prohibitively expensive ....
    3. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 21 October 2017 18: 58 New
      +2
      They wanted technology and they were sent here, and they’re scolding ...
    4. The comment was deleted.
  7. NEXUS
    NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 04 New
    20
    In a recent report, the Indian Air Force Command reported that the FGFA program did not meet their requirements, and within its framework it would not be possible to create a plane that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter. Therefore, the Indian Air Force "does not seek to continue the FGFA program."

    What was required to prove ... our side refused to transfer secret technologies to the Indians and transfer the production of the SU-57 twin to the territory of India.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 19: 42 New
      +6
      And here is the TRANSFER of technologies, if the Indians do not like the technologies themselves. The article clearly states that their Air Force does not like securing the aircraft и difficult to maintain unmodular engine.You like that the T-50 is doing the F-35 for aerobatics, and the Indian Air Force headquarters have other priorities. That's what you need to build on, and production is another matter.
      1. Gransasso
        Gransasso 21 October 2017 19: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: Thunderbolt
        And here is the TRANSFER of technologies, if the Indians do not like the technologies themselves. The article clearly states that their Air Force does not like securing the aircraft and its difficult to maintain non-modular engine.



        That's it ... it's not about technology transfer .... because the Indian version of the T-50 is developed on an equal footing with the Indians ... these technologies and the TPC belong to the Indians .... the level and quality of these technologies that do not suit them ... they already directly say, this is not the level of the 5th generation
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 57 New
        +8
        Quote: Thunderbolt
        Moreover, the transfer of technology, if the Indians do not like the technology itself.

        Yeah, I don’t like it at all ... wassat then they landed 5 lards for the development of the spark ... apparently from a great hostility to technology. You listen to a smaller magazine, but think with your own head. They need technology and ALL for the production of SU-57 and this is clearly indicated in the terms of the contract with our a party that is not beneficial to us.
        Quote: Thunderbolt
        , and production is another matter.

        Production, including the transfer of technology, is a respected, priority and main issue.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 20: 12 New
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          and this is clearly indicated in the terms of the contract with our party, which are not beneficial to us.

          That's where such conclusions come from. You yourself saw this agreement.
          Quote: NEXUS
          Production, including the transfer of technology, is a respected, priority and main issue.

          Come on. If the Air Force doesn’t like the plane, then you won’t lure them with any kind of thing. It was always and everywhere. And the Indians, though picky, but a competent buyer. If only technology transfer did not suit them, this would be reflected in the first proposal of the report. However, there is stealth and dissatisfaction with the engine. And on this topic you can see, there is nothing to answer.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 20 New
            +4
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            That's where such conclusions come from. You yourself saw this agreement.

            In May, media, citing a senior Indian defense official, said the country would continue to work with Russia to create its own fifth-generation FGFA fighter based on the T-50 (PAK FA) only if Moscow fully transfers all the necessary technologies to localize the full cycle of its production. At the same time, another source claimed that countries would sign a contract to develop a detailed design of the fifth-generation FGFA fighter (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) in the second half of 2017.

            Quote: Thunderbolt
            Come on. If the Air Force doesn’t like the plane, then you won’t lure them in any way. It was always and everywhere. And the Indians, though picky, but a competent buyer.

            That's why they insist on the transfer of technology and production of the SU-57 to the spark in their territory, so as not to pay us 150 lyam per piece, with further non-free maintenance, but to take them at their price, which is much lower, while servicing this park by ourselves.
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 20: 52 New
              0
              Quote: NEXUS
              In May, media, citing a senior source in the Indian defense department, said the country would continue to work with Russia to create its own fifth-generation FGFA fighter based on the T-50 (PAK FA) only if Moscow fully transferred all the necessary technologies to localize the full production cycle. At the same time, another source claimed that countries would sign a contract to develop a detailed design of the fifth-generation FGFA fighter (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) in the second half of 2017.

              This is not a contract. And here, by the way, as a serious person commented on your information that leaked to the press, the head of the FSVTS Shugaev:
              “If a contract is signed, then FGFA will not yield to our PAK FA (T-50). No country in the world, except Russia, has transferred “so sensitive” technologies to India. “India will get not just a plane, but intellectual property right ”, - said the head of the FSVTS. Https: //ria.ru/defense_safety/20170619/1496
              828153.html
              Now I hope everything is clear about the technologies that the Indians do not need. And now in this article today WHY is clearly indicated.
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 58 New
                +5
                Quote: Thunderbolt
                This is not a contract.

                You probably have a few words from the representative of the Indian Defense Ministry ... well, this is your right.
                Quote: Thunderbolt
                If a contract is signed, then the FGFA will not yield to our PAK FA (T-50).

                Everything is logical ... of course it will be inferior, since the spark is harder, and this is essentially an export version of the SU-57. And where did you see, at least someone had the export version better than the original?
                Quote: Thunderbolt
                India will get not just a plane, but the right to its intellectual property ”,

                Exactly so ... what is the contradiction? I wrote to you in black in Russian, is there a difference to buy this pair from us for one price (market) or to produce it ourselves and buy at the domestic price, and even serve it ourselves?
                1. Thunderbolt
                  Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 23: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  Quote: Thunderbolt
                  India will get not just a plane, but the right to its intellectual property ”,
                  That's right ... what is the contradiction?
                  Again 25. Reread your first post in this thread, this: ...... our side refused to transfer secret technologies to the Indians and transfer the production of the SU-57 twin to the territory of India., where you claim that the Indians are leaving the project because of technologies that they will not receive from us. I have already quoted Shugaev that this is not so: 1.) FGFA will not concede to our PAK FA (T-50)
                  2.) The right to intellectual property.
                  He didn’t just say that, but at a salon in Le Bourget it was he who refuted the question of the journalist who asked him a question about the statement that appeared in the press (referring to a senior source in the Indian defense department that you cited). Therefore, the question lies in the technical plane, and not the technological one. But then this "sensitive" question was perfectly covered by the "experts", shifting the discussion to the field of Indian aircraft industry capabilities, their cunning, etc.
              2. Vlad.by
                Vlad.by 21 October 2017 23: 30 New
                +3
                Keywords - IF THE CONTRACT IS SIGNED
                For now, I'm sorry, there is a bargain for the total amount and, most importantly, for the amount of kickbacks. How can Indians NOT SET EPR, if they have only approximate, unclassified data? The same goes for the engine. Who will give them the real data of the Su-57? So far, they are operating on the estimated data of the machine, which is also intended for export. This gives a reason to bargain. Let them try. Perhaps that will come out.
          2. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 21 October 2017 23: 22 New
            0
            I suppose the Air Force doesn’t like the plane, but the distribution system of kickbacks. Well, it doesn’t get much for them, so they are looking for pretexts and levers for redistributing the amounts or, better, for increasing them. By the way, they may well achieve some result ...
  8. Maz
    Maz 21 October 2017 18: 04 New
    +4
    Let's see what Indians give birth to themselves. They have already produced their own tank. Considering that an airplane is more complicated and more expensive than a BTT, it is unlikely that it will be more worthwhile by analogy. The USA is expensive, they want to sit on a stool and get to the chandelier at the same time. There is no Israel, Turkey, Britain and other manufacturers of f35 will not help
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 21 New
      10
      Quote: Maz
      Considering that an airplane is more complicated and more expensive than a BTT, it is unlikely that it will be more worthwhile by analogy.

      Only countries that can be counted on the fingers of one hand can create a modern fighter aircraft alone ... and India is not among them. Even the Europeans are cooperating on this issue, although they have much more technology and groundwork than the Indians. And therefore, all that India can give birth to is a fighter below the average level, the Yak-130 class is only combat, which will not be competitive and not effective.
    2. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 21 October 2017 19: 00 New
      0
      Well, maybe this is an attempt to "intimidate" and still "knock out" the technology. We will see.
      It looks like "since you don’t give the technology, we will buy from your competitor."
      And if you decide to spite mom's ears to freeze, well, their business.
  9. Fedorov
    Fedorov 21 October 2017 18: 06 New
    +2
    Who invests grandmothers in such lobbying? It's no secret that there is terrible corruption. Or are Russian super-economists economist managers so stupid, or are they also taking it from someone's pocket?
    And the many-armed Shiva (a very respected God) doesn’t even help them, or “brainless”? sad
    And who will offer them something better? F-35 is not even suitable for soles, it is not correct to compare. The Chinese, Japanese? At home, it turns out there are not enough brains, that's whining.
  10. Nemesis
    Nemesis 21 October 2017 18: 06 New
    15
    Hindus want to get all the technologies, that's the whole point, and transferring them to India neither the Russian Federation nor the United States is not profitable ... So India can count on delivering Su-57 from the Russian Federation, or F-35 from the USA, but on the transfer of all technologies no ... Moreover, it is not profitable for the Russian Federation, for which the Su-57 is not the same as the F-35 for the United States, which was created by the United States, mainly for export. For the Russian Federation, the Su-57 is the same as the F-22 for the United States, and the US F-22 does not sell to anyone, and even more so they are not going to transfer its technology to someone
  11. razved
    razved 21 October 2017 18: 10 New
    +2
    Apparently, mattresses are still pushing their interests in India.
    1. Pulya
      Pulya 21 October 2017 18: 30 New
      +2
      Apparently, mattresses are still pushing their interests in India.

      Well, nice laughing
      We Indyayo at the time, needed, now let them go with their "cunning" to the devil. We got ... now knam, then to the French, and now in general the United States priority. Such "partners" in the garden, all in the garden wassat
      1. razved
        razved 21 October 2017 18: 42 New
        0
        However, they still place their orders with us.
    2. Piramidon
      Piramidon 21 October 2017 18: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: razved
      Apparently, mattresses are still pushing their interests in India.

      If they are so cunning, let them buy Fu-35. But they won’t. Grandmas, they also know how to count. Buying a fighter for the price of a strategic bomber, even Indians can not afford. And all this crap is nothing more than an attempt to bring down the price of our developments.
  12. tchoni
    tchoni 21 October 2017 18: 17 New
    +2
    Ah what a click "Dry" on the nose. Straight already rang. All is correct. Indians have their own lobby. and we can only guess what the real reason for such statements is.
    Whether it’s a really high radar signature (disregard for the “dry” parable in her tongues).
    Either "the most important Indian purchaser" very well cried out the second interested party.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 18: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: tchoni
      Ah what a click "Dry" on the nose.

      Why? This is a matter of interests of the parties and priorities ... you would be the first to start screaming here, in the case of transferring the production of the SU-57 twin to India, that we are wasting technology.
      Quote: tchoni
      Whether it’s a really high radar signature (disregard for the “dry” parable in her tongues).

      The complete nonsense ... EPR SU-57 announced 0,3-0,4 m ...
      1. Roma
        Roma 1977 21 October 2017 19: 29 New
        +2
        EPR is a relative value. For advertising purposes, the Americans always underestimate it, or rather, underestimate it. For.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 19: 37 New
          +3
          Quote: Roma-1977
          EPR is a relative value. For advertising purposes, the Americans always underestimate it, or rather, underestimate it. For.

          This averaged value was announced by representatives of the dry ... it certainly can be smaller and larger, because a flying airplane is not always in the most favorable position for itself relative to the radar that irradiates it.
      2. tchoni
        tchoni 21 October 2017 21: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        The complete nonsense ... EPR SU-57 announced 0,3-0,4 m ...

        Well, and the bourgeois voiced something at the level of 1 dm.sq. The difference is 30-40 times. As a result, the difference in detection ranges. laughing
        You do not forget that our t-50 was conceived as an interceptor. Therefore, there are a lot of radars and a disregard for their own visibility. Therefore, a lot of yelling about the engines of the second stage. (what an interceptor without speed !?), etc.
        Fy 35 - was originally thought of as a strike aircraft. Fighter-bomber, if you want .... And here the requirement of visibility comes to the fore. He needs to overcome the air defense.
        We do not know what the Indians need. And what is in their priority.
        Well, the details of the contract were not disclosed. Perhaps the "dry" Indians promised to bring the indicators of visibility to the required values ​​and could not. Or they could, not quite. (we remember that there are two projects for this aircraft: ours is already Su57 and Hindu). So the Indians began to look for what they needed. And they need, apparently, a strike aircraft. Found the Americans.
        Perhaps the Americans found them. Everything is complicated here. And screams like “no hosh kulesh - nothing else” do not work here.
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 21 October 2017 23: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: tchoni
          You do not forget that our t-50 was conceived as an interceptor.

          What vegetable is it from? There is a draft PAK DP to replace the MIG-31.SU-37-MFI, that is, a multifunctional, rather than a highly specialized complex.
          Quote: tchoni
          Fy 35 - was originally thought of as a strike aircraft. Fighter-bomber, if you want .... And here the requirement of visibility comes to the fore. He needs to overcome the air defense.

          Are you sure you will overcome?
          Quote: tchoni
          Perhaps the "dry" Indians promised to bring the indicators of visibility to the required values ​​and could not.

          The EPR numbers in our SU-57 are commensurate with the F-22 numbers ... the fact that the mattresses there wrote a bunch of zeros after the decimal point, these are all the tales of the Vienna forest and the course of stupid PR ...
          Quote: tchoni
          And apparently they need a strike aircraft

          They need technology, not a strike aircraft. Does the SU-57, in your opinion, not a strike complex with the nomenclature of its arsenal?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 22 October 2017 00: 37 New
            +1
            "The EPR numbers in our SU-57 are commensurate with the numbers F-22." ////

            Only strictly in frontal projection. When they go one nose to the other.
            And from below, for air defense, it glows fairly, in the old fashioned way. The designers neglected this.
          2. tchoni
            tchoni 22 October 2017 09: 59 New
            0
            Quote: NEXUS
            What vegetable is it from? There is a draft PAK DP to replace the MIG-31.SU-37-MFI, that is, a multifunctional, rather than a highly specialized complex.

            From such that when they launched this promising fighter program at the beginning of the 31s, they did not dream of any PAK DP to replace 31. One promising fighter was allowed to do - and then sugar. Because The air defense was in priority, the machine was conceived precisely as a line of protection. A cross between the 27st instant and suXNUMX. From the first opportunity the radar and the ability to fight at long and ultra-long distances, from the second - maneuverability and the ability to conduct close combat. The objectives of an air defense breakthrough were not actually set before the machine.
            Quote: NEXUS
            The EPR numbers in our SU-57 are commensurate with the F-22 numbers ... the fact that the mattresses there wrote a bunch of zeros after the decimal point, these are all the tales of the Vienna forest and the course of stupid PR ...
          3. tchoni
            tchoni 22 October 2017 10: 50 New
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            The EPR numbers in our SU-57 are commensurate with the F-22 numbers ... the fact that the mattresses there wrote a bunch of zeros after the decimal point, these are all the tales of the Vienna forest and the course of stupid PR ...

            This is certainly not the argument "they are Americans, they are all-inclined" ....... They don’t publish the same test reports on radio ranges .....
    2. tol100v
      tol100v 21 October 2017 18: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: tchoni
      Ah what a click "Dry" on the nose. Straight already rang.

      This click is not Suhim, but cunning Indians! Let them go around the market and bargain!
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 21 October 2017 20: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: Tol100v
        This click is not Suhim, but cunning Indians! Let them go around the market and bargain!

        can Sukhoi still give a prize for the fact that the largest customer of armaments wants to refuse to buy at all?
      2. tchoni
        tchoni 21 October 2017 21: 42 New
        +2
        Hindus are very literate people. I had the pleasure of communicating with the person who taught them at a military school. To carry the teacher on the teaching material and poke him in the blemishes with his nose was in the order of things.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 21: 55 New
          13
          Quote: tchoni
          Hindus are very literate people. I had the pleasure of communicating with the person who taught them at the military school

          "Had pleasure" to personally communicate with a team of a couple of dozen Indians (the world's best programmers).
          My opinion is armless, headless and gouging in addition.
          Everything that they did in six months, my team (I + 2) then redid it (in practice, "from the foundation") ... in a month belay
          And to drag a teacher with his face across the table is not great valor. "With a tongue to grind - do not chop wood."
          Something like that.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 21 October 2017 22: 05 New
          +5
          Quote: tchoni
          Hindus are very literate people.

          Oh well. My tasks were copied, despite the fact that I always got to take off from a techie.
      3. tchoni
        tchoni 21 October 2017 21: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Tol100v
        Let them go around the market and bargain!

        Already gone, fy-35th found hi
    3. Berkut24
      Berkut24 21 October 2017 18: 35 New
      +2
      The second reason. Every year they catch someone by the hand. Does not help, this is a national trait. Like some claim towards Russia, it means they gilded someone's pen.
    4. DarkMatter
      DarkMatter 21 October 2017 19: 48 New
      +1
      and we can only guess what the real reason for such statements is.

      As an option, the other day they agreed on an electro-magnetic catapult for a promising aircraft carrier. Perhaps this condition of the deal is to take their planes.
  13. K-50
    K-50 21 October 2017 18: 21 New
    +6
    Indian Air Force Command reported that the FGFA program does not meet their requirements, and within its framework it will not be possible to create an aircraft that could demonstrate capabilities close to the American F-35 fighter

    It’s like in a joke: A friend, as it were, asks a potential boyfriend, as of today:
    -Do you have an apartment?
    -not
    Is there a Volvo?
    -not
    -Then we won’t have anything.
    -So for me, for the sake of this, is a three-story cottage and a six hundred-hundredth cottage?
    So it is here. They refuse the car a cut above the class, you see, there will be no initiative above them, probably. laughing
  14. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 21 October 2017 18: 21 New
    +1
    I think the fact is that someone in India gets very non-fake caps for torpedoing this project with the aim of buying the F-35.
    1. Mih1974
      Mih1974 21 October 2017 18: 47 New
      +1
      India will not pull the purchase of the Fu-35, And if they buy it, they will put it in the hangars and will "wipe it with a cloth". This is not a "penny" moment for us to stick into the ground, here for 400 million bucks they will begin to remove chips from any. tongue
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 21 October 2017 20: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Mih1974
        India will not pull the purchase of the Fu-35

        Dry in value is more expensive than f35, about 110 million.
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 22 October 2017 01: 14 New
          0
          Yeah - it was, two years ago, WITHOUT engines. tongue
  15. Berkut24
    Berkut24 21 October 2017 18: 33 New
    +2
    Again the eastern bazaar. But after all, at some point, Russia may get tired of it and say "no - no, so. Fly on American pullbacks."
    1. maiman61
      maiman61 21 October 2017 18: 49 New
      +5
      And if something happens, they will trample on us with screams! The S-300s were offered to the Serbs before the war, they sent us, before the war Syria was offered weapons even if they were overwhelmed, they twirled their faces. Even 10 lard of debt was written off, just buy weapons from us! Now give it to me! Doggystyle Sl!
      1. just exp
        just exp 21 October 2017 23: 48 New
        0
        No one offered the C-300 to the Serbs, moreover, when the bombing had not yet begun. but preparations were underway for them, the Serbs with posters stood "S-300", asked them (maybe they wanted xs for free, but they had already a situevina).
        and Syria didn’t offer anything like that, they bought MiGs anyway, and the last ones at that time were M2, they also bought shells, they also ordered Yak-130s and a lot more.
        but Gaddafi’s kinus us, they pushed him and the S-300, and the Su-30, and the rest, he concluded contracts, but did not pay for them, but entered into contracts with French for the same package of weapons, and he also threw them, climbed to kiss to the mattresses, and then they gnawed it.
        1. maiman61
          maiman61 22 October 2017 08: 33 New
          +5
          Well, I didn’t just blurt out! Serbs were offered the S-300 when the war did not smell! And when the war smelled, they screamed and snotted to beg for the S-300! But the S-300 is not a bunch of radishes, took and sold. The contract takes months or even years. For example, China, how much did they wait for the S-400? Or how much did Iran wait for the S-300?
          And Gaddafi is still that swindler, and received for it! We offered weapons, if he had such and democratic bombs would not have flown to Libya! He made us write off the debt of 10 lard of greenery and twisted everything in the face after that. It turns out that only Gaddafi's personal capital was more than 70 lard greens. So he got what he deserved!
          Syria has achieved the cancellation of the debt of 10 lard greens. But they were in no hurry to buy our weapons. And the money was intentional! And there’s nothing now to stand with outstretched hand! God will give!
  16. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 18: 34 New
    +5
    It is possible that the emphasis on over-maneuverability is wrong --- that’s the result. You can’t sell indians on politics, they are in a very good position, because they are free to buy weapons from both the West and us by the sum of technical characteristics and it’s difficult for them to impose goods. This means that our project lost in the competition, and not because of evil tricks. And most likely, in military-technical terms, they will be offered a large program for decades for everyone military branches: aircraft carrier-universal fighter-a unified battlefield control system.
    1. Roma
      Roma 1977 21 October 2017 19: 34 New
      +2
      Su-57 and F-35 are not competitors. Machines for various purposes. That is, the question of tactical application and military doctrine in general comes to the fore. And what kind of tactics India intends to adhere to in a hypothetical war with China is the cause of the Indians. The master is the master.
      1. Gransasso
        Gransasso 21 October 2017 19: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Roma-1977
        Su-57 and F-35 are not competitors. Machines for various purposes. That is, the question of tactical application and military doctrine in general comes to the fore. And what kind of tactics India intends to adhere to in a hypothetical war with China is the cause of the Indians. The master is the master.




        Su-57 in the Russian version and f-35-maybe for different purposes ... but we are talking about the Indian version ... and there is not so simple ... why do the Indians want it in the double version? ... for use in the version a clean fighter?
        1. Roma
          Roma 1977 21 October 2017 19: 46 New
          +1
          The ability to deliver high-precision strikes on the ground - in the Su-57 in the base. Hindus want their option purely for the purpose of gaining experience for their aircraft manufacturers, since differences in avionics are planned and in general there are many differences from the domestic model.
        2. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 19: 59 New
          +1
          Quote: Roma-1977
          Su-57 and F-35 are not competitors. Machines for various purposes.
          I agree that the F-35 is more versatile and, in combination with better stealth, looks more attractive. These are programs for decades, and the detection technique is becoming more and more perfect at a rapid pace. Therefore, securing is of paramount importance. the air powers are engaged in the 5th generation, and this is such a guarantee of survival on the battlefield in the 21st century, where the air environment will be crammed with the enemy’s reconnaissance and strike drones as much as possible. You won’t run away from the rocket either, at least on any engine. from the engine, in order to accomplish a task with long-range means, than to become a target. At forums about the T-50, this problem has always been given special attention, the topic of better stealth.
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 20: 00 New
      +3
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      It is possible that the emphasis on over-maneuverability is erroneous --- and this is the result.

      What a fright? Or do you think stealth technology solves all the problems in aerial combat?
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      they are very well placed

      What are you saying ... wassat China is already at the finish line on the issue of the fighter pair, Pakistan is also buying new fighters and trying to create its own ... and what is India doing in this direction? India, amiable now in a very difficult situation, given its relations with China and Pakistan.
  17. Fedorov
    Fedorov 21 October 2017 18: 38 New
    +3
    Actually, why do they need an airplane of the F-35 type with a shortened take-off, an expensive, problematic one? Do they have plans to build heels of aircraft carriers?
    And the fact that the matter concerns the problems of stealth and suspensions is highly doubtful. If they coffin Dry in the even sky and fires on submarines arrange?
    "He has the wrong grenades."
  18. Egorovich
    Egorovich 21 October 2017 18: 39 New
    +5
    Give them, paid by the Indians, the design of the new aircraft and let them design further themselves. In 20-30 years, they can create something that looks similar to the picture. Hindus want everything and almost immediately.
  19. captain
    captain 21 October 2017 18: 45 New
    0
    There is obscene Russian expression; about ... whether.
    1. Incvizitor
      Incvizitor 21 October 2017 19: 05 New
      +1
      about ... whether.

      Hindus are the best aircraft because of their trouble.
      1. Ugolek
        Ugolek 21 October 2017 19: 51 New
        +4
        I am personally in favor of reducing the arms trade with India. Su-57 is a good excuse for this. Enough. Let them take what they want and from whom they want. You see, the fear of losing the market to which it is supposedly “impossible” to return is greatly exaggerated. Does anyone seriously think that the Americans will transfer key technologies on the F-35? I doubt it very much. Do you know why China will win a hypothetical war with the Indians? Yes, because they have their own army, albeit not technologically advanced, but higher in the same technologies than India. And India does not have an army, but a hodgepodge, with all that it implies .. The French refused to transfer technology, the Americans and even more so, why would the Indians show off? Yes, and God forbid them. When they are determined to seriously resolve issues, then welcome, and so on them in the stump. For 15 years, China has rebuilt the fleet and will soon rebuild the Air Force, while India is still trading. Russia is also sys.k. and crumple, the amounts that are supposed for "joint development" are ridiculous. But what joint development in aircraft manufacturing with stubborn Indians can be? Who is stopping Russia from asking for 50 billion for the technology? They don’t want to go to the garden. It should not be otherwise, TECHNOLOGY cannot cost those cents. You need to respect yourself and the work of your engineers. Can you imagine the gigantic sum that the full-scale cooperation of the Indians with the amers on the F-35 will result in? Can you imagine this in the amount of 10 billion? Me not. I can assume that 150-200 planes for India will be so expensive that no Krishna will help ..
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 21 October 2017 20: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Ugolek
          Imagine the gigantic sum that the full-scale cooperation of the Indians with the amers on the F-35 will result in.

          All this will be smoothed out. Americans need to create a counterbalance to China so that they will push cooperation.
        2. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 21 October 2017 21: 54 New
          +1
          so why would the Indians show off?

          Blackmail attempt ...
          An especially good reason is that the EPR is less than that of fu, have they read something in the advertising booklet? lol
  20. 3vs
    3vs 21 October 2017 19: 32 New
    +2
    Someone from the military seems to have brought ... a briefcase with sausage! bully
  21. Settlement Oparyshev
    Settlement Oparyshev 21 October 2017 19: 38 New
    +1
    The Indians were noticing. Firstly, a loss of time. The training of pilots on fu35 is not one year. The development of the entire complex will take the same more than one year. And the Chinese are not lost, they will soon drive the Indians in the mountains like mountain kazls.
    And secondly, it is not yet known with whom the Americans will be friends more strongly? And when the dump suddenly begins, all the Hindu FUs will suddenly refuse to fly. And India will be without aviation, only with leftovers.
  22. zhekazs
    zhekazs 21 October 2017 19: 43 New
    +2
    Hmm, the Indians are great aircraft manufacturers .. Let them then dig out the drawings of their vimans and build what they want.
  23. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 21 October 2017 20: 03 New
    0
    Apparently, the U.S. Indians have mastered their F-35.
  24. Bronevick
    Bronevick 21 October 2017 20: 08 New
    0
    Karoche wants to buy F-35
  25. APASUS
    APASUS 21 October 2017 20: 32 New
    +1
    To be honest, I am also against such cooperation. The blanket is too pulled on itself, in fact, the Indians need technology and that's it, they themselves want to decide what and how it will be.
    As a matter of fact, American influence has become critical, India is being prepared to be enemies of China very seriously. I suspect that at a certain level they will also set up weapons in order to start a conflict
  26. Locksmith
    Locksmith 21 October 2017 20: 34 New
    0
    Quote: hrych
    And what does the 6th generation airplane mean in Bulgaria? Flying yogurt?

    Strongly ... laughing
  27. askme
    askme 21 October 2017 20: 35 New
    11
    What a funny title) What does it mean "required"? If the Indians paid 100%, and we performed - ok, who pays for the banquet, he commands. But there the division was 50/50. And this means that they rely on forfeit. And secondly, greed fraer ruined. The universal tender for a light fighter was not enough for them, when the French threw them with a guy, breaking the price and refusing to transfer technologies, actually imposing Rafalei instead of 128 36 for that money. They will be the same and F-35 is the same)) Wind them in the back)))

    Wow, these insolent Indians! We are trying to get all the latest technology from us for nothing, with the planned price of a fifth-generation fighter CHEAPER of lousy rafal purchased by them! No, they just need to be educated. Politely dropping. Which, it seems, has been done by our managers for the last several. years) And the Indians do not understand that they simply lose the chance to get a 5th generation car for sane money.

    And as a result, they will buy the F-35 for $ 200 million, the minimum configuration for the Papuans) Without any transfer of technology, software codes, etc.)) And still come to us. That's when we sell them for 200 million the real Su-57, in the export version, without any technology transfer. Let the client ripen. Idiots need to be educated simply) Now is not the 90s and not the beginning of the 2000s. The Hindus simply stupidly missed their chances on this cooperation program, moreover, repeatedly, kobenitsya where you need to work and agree ...)
    1. Ugolek
      Ugolek 21 October 2017 20: 54 New
      0
      In general, we described the same thing, but in different ways! drinks
      1. Ugolek
        Ugolek 21 October 2017 20: 56 New
        0
        By the way, I would like to ask our Jewish colleagues in the forum, for what reasons in Israel they stopped designing their aircraft? After all, were Kfira and Lavi? Was the financial issue?
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 22 October 2017 00: 45 New
          +1
          Sure. There was enough money for R&D and prototypes. And it was impossible to deploy production. Even now, when Israel is ten times richer, I would not recommend starting a fighter.
          1. Fedorov
            Fedorov 22 October 2017 07: 57 New
            +3
            Richer, because under the wing of an American eagle? which bucks millions of tanks a year into the Israeli economy for free? Probably Uncle Sem and sets up your policy. And they could live in peace, and so they have applauded enemies around the world. Forgive me, I’m peaceful, but without the support of the United States, of course, neighbors will crush you with great losses, just like Constantinople once. Do you need this?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 22 October 2017 09: 58 New
              +3
              The United States began supporting Israel since 1970, approximately.
              Prior to this, Israel won two major wars against all.
              without any help from the USA.
              Israel's GDP (for reference) is more than $ 300 billion a year. American
              help - 3 mln. dollars a year.
  28. Gronsky
    Gronsky 21 October 2017 20: 56 New
    +1
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Hindus realize that their adversary Pakistan will get 5th generation earlier

    This is a clinic. fool
    Or a complete disrespect for the forum participants, by flogging deliberate nonsense, in the hope that this very screwed nonsense will be easily swallowed by everyone.
    And all this with the clever appearance of an expert ........... Jews, such Jews.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 22 October 2017 00: 47 New
      0
      And nevertheless: Pakistan will receive the Chinese sooner than India the Russian. hi
      The growth rate of China and Russia is obvious.
  29. Awaz
    Awaz 21 October 2017 21: 14 New
    0
    it seems that the whole thing rests on the fact that the Russian authorities had the smart mind not to share technologies ...
    1. askme
      askme 21 October 2017 22: 28 New
      12
      I think that is not all). Our authorities, having excellent experience with the Indians on the topic of Su-30MKI, wanted in the early 2000s TOGETHER with the Indians to develop 5th generation technologies. TOGETHER. And the Indians, like banal seed traders, could not at all appreciate the prospects that he had proposed. They shied away from joint developments, not wanting to share the corresponding LEGAL risks. As a result, Russia itself, without any outside help, developed all the technologies of the 5th generation. And here in the early 2010s, when the PAK FA had already flown, the Hindu traders came to buy our products for nothing, in which they did not participate! (That’s arrogant!) Well, ours then adequately arrogant traders and began to play with them) Moreover, in parallel, the Indians began to buy powerfully in the United States, and our military-industrial complex lost tenders one after another .... And we began to play talentedly, depicting activities adequate investment partner. And not a cent more! As a result, the Indians got bits and pieces of generation 4+ technology, repeatedly paid for, well, the 5th generation design mentioned in the appendage))))) That is, ours were completely adequate with them simply. And now, when the Indians realized that they would receive exactly as much technology as they were willing to pay (moreover, at international prices, and here we have a shameful tender for Rafals for the Indians), and not a cent more, they had a seizure, as they invested purely symbolic, gypsy ...
      That's all, actually. All remained with their own. Honestly) Traders - with seeds and a Lada design in a modern design)))) To Su-57, this masturbation is no side ....)

      We initially wanted to develop all the technologies together with the Indians. And only then did we have a desire to sell the technologies we developed for decent money. Neither one nor the other gypsies wanted. And this is completely their problem)
  30. SergeBS
    SergeBS 21 October 2017 21: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: NEXUS
    I found this nonsense on the official website of KRET.

    And do not care where it is supposedly found. Equations Comrade Maxwell has not been canceled, so no radio wave can pass through the meter wall of lead. This is a conductor. Let it be an order of magnitude worse than copper, but CONDUCTOR.
    Also publish how these ROFARs will “shine through” the seas, for example. laughing
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 21 October 2017 23: 39 New
      +3
      Quote: SergeBS
      Also publish how these ROFARs will “shine through” the seas, for example.

      In the future, ROFAR technology can be used on submarines.
      “It is possible that we will be able to look under the water, for hydroacoustics, for use on submarines, this technology is also being considered,” said the adviser.
      1. SergeBS
        SergeBS 22 October 2017 00: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: NEXUS
        In the future, ROFAR technology can be used on submarines.

        In-in. So big, but you believe in fairy tales. From a muddy site that hangs nonscientific noodles.
        Sea water, by the way, ALSO a conductor. And therefore, no ROFAR can work in it. laughing
        I recommend google and study the topic of "propagation of radio waves" (well, about the passage of light in water - you can also enlighten).
        And in order not to bathe much, here are excerpts from “Mavrodi in Science” (the very “KRET website”). Article:
        "Cooperation with MIPT"
        blah blah blah and then
        “Thus, an innovative environment will be formed between the National Research University of MIPT and KRET enterprises.”
        FizTech (MIPT) has NEVER been and never will be a National Research University. This is the BEST technical university in the Russian Federation.
        Educational, not a research institution.
        This is St. Petersburg PhysTech - Research Institute. But for "a specialist in radio waves, etc." - rich noodles. Ears does not subside. winked
  31. Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 21 October 2017 21: 24 New
    0
    Quote: Gransasso
    Quote: Thunderbolt
    And here is the TRANSFER of technologies, if the Indians do not like the technologies themselves. The article clearly states that their Air Force does not like securing the aircraft and its difficult to maintain non-modular engine.



    That's it ... it's not about technology transfer .... because the Indian version of the T-50 is developed on an equal footing with the Indians ... these technologies and the TPC belong to the Indians .... the level and quality of these technologies that do not suit them ... they already directly say, this is not the level of the 5th generation

    Well, it doesn’t smell like parity, both in terms of money and technology ($ 250 million; - technology). They spent money only on design, layout, and even this is not final. Where did the parity come from?
  32. Gransasso
    Gransasso 21 October 2017 21: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Kurare
    To AL-41, an intermediate for the Su-57, he just does not hold out.



    How do you know this? ...
  33. bmv04636
    bmv04636 21 October 2017 22: 34 New
    0
    What about the lease of our nuclear submarines and whether India needs our second pike. Then it seems like the Koreans (southern) want to rent a nuclear submarine can offer them, and not Indians
  34. faterdom
    faterdom 21 October 2017 22: 38 New
    +2
    Well, they’ve reformed ... Since the Aryans invaded Hindustan, there has been a caste system: who should be a warrior, who should be a scientist ... even the peasants should be casted. And the non-caste is ... well, like our "artist" Pavlensky, to whom to give a hand - continuous hygiene, also exists for a long time - "untouchables".
    So for the first time in millennia, the Prime Minister of India - of them! We will see where this leads them.
    More and more inclined to make friends with the Americans, in defiance of Pakistan and China. And such friendship has not yet come back to anyone with good, at least with the loss of sovereignty.
  35. CAT BAIYUN
    CAT BAIYUN 21 October 2017 22: 40 New
    +4
    Indian Air Force demands close FGFA project

    Well, well .. To whom and how much money was given? I don’t even specify who gave it - everyone is in the know.
  36. IQ12NHJ21az
    IQ12NHJ21az 21 October 2017 22: 44 New
    +3
    I suppose that ours didn’t want to transfer technology without prepayment, but the Indians rested, ours showed a cookie. Now the Indians pretend that they didn’t really want to cooperate, and in general our plane is not what they wanted. And the Americans immediately fussed. Although it is quite difficult to understand what the Indians want. I suspect. that they themselves don’t know - they abandoned the MIG in favor of Rafal - it’s not clear for what reason. And why do the F-35 Indians, if they have a SU-30MKI? And how are they going to replace roughly PAK FA with this F-35? Deck F-35 loses SU-33, if you remake the PAK FA in deck, then the F-35 is generally in the ... e. Indeed, let them make vimans and fly them or buy F-35s and go around.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 October 2017 23: 49 New
      +1
      India, it seems, concluded a contract with the United States that year for the supply of 450 strike Avenger UAVs
  37. Eflintuk
    Eflintuk 21 October 2017 23: 38 New
    0
    And I think our SUF does not need this SU-57, because it will not bring any breakthrough and qualitative leap and it is already openly late (which the Indians understand). Therefore, it will be such a slow pick with him rather to support industry (shtob was an occasion to pay salaries). If there was a samal from which really the defensive ability had noticeably increased, the loot would have been given right there.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 23: 57 New
      +9
      Quote: EFLINTuk
      There would be a samal from which really defensive ability has increased markedly - the loot would have been immediately given

      You already said everything laughing
      Quote: EFLINTuk
      And I think...

      ... and you do not think ... it is contraindicated to you ... Samal, pancake.
  38. missuris
    missuris 21 October 2017 23: 52 New
    +2
    lol, they don’t like the AL-41F1, after how many decades can these cranks do something similar? onizh even the normal medium tank could not be assembled, they collected the heavyweight on the details of the EU which is from the desert nigusyanka)))
  39. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 22 October 2017 00: 25 New
    +2
    The jester knows what the Indians are guided by, either agreeing with us to create a new combat aircraft, or suddenly abandoning such a project. If they are only interested in our technological secrets, then they definitely will not receive them.
  40. Bradypodidae
    Bradypodidae 22 October 2017 00: 42 New
    +4
    Indians have no alternative. The FGFA fighter, in theory, should replace the Su-30MKI in the foreseeable future. F-35, can replace the Su-30? That's right, it can’t, because they have different tasks. So all this Hindu vyser has only one goal, to achieve big concessions under the FGFA program, everything will come of it. The Indians are still negotiators, they carried the brains of the British for about 20 years, but that's all received the HAWK TCB on their terms. Just at the next consultations on this project, you need to agree with the arguments of the Indians and close the topic. As we say, "Baba with a cart-husband shirt"
  41. 3 Gradient
    3 Gradient 22 October 2017 01: 38 New
    +4
    "The Indian Air Force reported that the FGFA program does not meet their requirements." ..
    But then ...
    F-35 of our Indian friends ... FULLY FIXED ...
    That's what leads ... "Indy Russia ... Bhai ... Bhai .."
    We are ready to transfer technology ... to establish production ... on the land of the Mahabharata ...
    And the best friends of India ... Americans ...
    In the ideal case ... they will sell them the F-35 ... "Naked aircraft" ....
    And the service ... will be made by American experts .... for dollars ... And the cost of spare parts ... will grow from year to year ...
    That's the way Americans work ... Around the world ...
    Worship them ... Hindus ... in the girdle ... AND LOOKING IN THE GRAY EYES OF "UNCER SAM" ... WILL BE HAPPY ...
    Eh, Russian brothers ... Ruining us desire ...
    Sincere friendship ... with everyone ...
  42. lopvlad
    lopvlad 22 October 2017 02: 17 New
    +5
    Tricky Indians like when they transmit modern technologies to them along with the plane, and nobody will do this, unless the Americans and even because the F-35 project was recognized by them as a failure and the loot spent must be repelled somehow.
    The Hindus will either load rockets into the submarine so that it explodes at the berth, then the drying falls on them from scratch. They did not see electricity for half the population and you gave them planes.
  43. igorra
    igorra 22 October 2017 04: 34 New
    +3
    And also the Su-57 does not sing or dance Indian dances.
    1. Ugolek
      Ugolek 22 October 2017 05: 12 New
      +2
      Even now, when Israel is ten times richer, I would not recommend starting a fighter.


      So yes, I pulled out a confession from a Jew that they are rich !! forum users should appreciate it !!)))

      But seriously, it turns out that Israel did not take the risk and did not attempt to promote its aircraft to the market. Although it seems to me that Israel would not have hurt its light-class aircraft.
  44. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 22 October 2017 05: 35 New
    +2
    Hindus themselves know what they want?
  45. Hurricane70
    Hurricane70 22 October 2017 05: 38 New
    +2
    Quote: Ugolek
    Even now, when Israel is ten times richer, I would not recommend starting a fighter.


    So yes, I pulled out a confession from a Jew that they are rich !! forum users should appreciate it !!)))

    But seriously, it turns out that Israel did not take the risk and did not attempt to promote its aircraft to the market. Although it seems to me that Israel would not have hurt its light-class aircraft.

    Appreciated! You are presented to the title of "Pull" 1st degree, with ribbons and a diamond! Diamond only left to pull the Jews! Keep it up!!!
  46. sarval1971
    sarval1971 22 October 2017 06: 28 New
    0
    "... with low stealth."
    Yes ... This is a masterpiece !!!!
  47. AID.S
    AID.S 22 October 2017 07: 12 New
    +2
    Quote: Young_Communist
    In the oil period, $ 120 could have been used to build a 6th generation fighter, but some chose to transfer billions

    At that time it was possible to build a southern stream, but some refused, and billions, as they were not, never appeared.
    I believe that you, under the Bulgarian flag, have the right here only to constructive criticism of Russia, and not to "the cat left kittens ..."
  48. kos2910
    kos2910 22 October 2017 07: 13 New
    +1
    Yes and well, not figs scatter technologies. Do Indians also believe in the invisibility of the F-35? Yes flag in hand, naive ...
  49. Cuba
    Cuba 22 October 2017 07: 30 New
    0
    Quote: SRC P-15
    Quote: newbie
    eh, we would have at least half of their fin. opportunities, we would have flown.

    But with their financial capabilities, their debt with great acceleration flies up! We don’t need such flights! stop

    It flies fast, only it seems like they don’t give a shit! ... they print their candy wrappers, and the whole world wags them !!
  50. Serzh_R
    Serzh_R 22 October 2017 07: 41 New
    0
    It is necessary to negotiate with the largest customer of armaments - India. And the talk: “we can do without them” is just from those mediocre lawyers without the slightest knowledge of those. characteristics of the subject of the contract and the capabilities of the supplier that concluded the transaction on the plane.