Military Review

Russians return Yerevan to Armenians

299
Russians return Yerevan to Armenians



After the Russian troops liberated Erivan from the Persians, Armenians all over the world praised Russia. "Armenia was resurrected thanks to the Russians," they noted

In the 17th – 18th centuries, the Erivan khanate was the scene of struggle between the Ottoman Turks and the Persians.

All this time the Armenians waged the liberation struggle for their independence, in it they relied on the support of the Georgian king Vakhtang VI, and then the Russians. Armenians of the Erivan Khanate fought on the Russian side in the Russian-Persian wars.

The capture of the Erivan fortress was one of the last episodes of the Russian-Persian war of 1826-1828. The Russian army under the command of General of Infantry Ivan Fyodorovich Paskevich stepped up to the fortress of September 23 (old style).

Until now, Erivan was considered the “impregnable stronghold of Persia”, she stood on the steep cliff of the Zangi river and was well fortified, but the fighting spirit of the defenders of the fortress was far from fighting. Information about the success of Russian in this war significantly weakened it.

Therefore, it was not difficult for an experienced Paskevich to estimate how long a siege would take. “... Erivan will not last a few days,” he wrote to Emperor Nicholas I, with him and the General Staff Ivan Fedorovich was in regular correspondence. The same assessment was given to the manager of engineering works, MI. Pushchina: "In the cover of the day we shall cover and the fortress."

The shelling made by Russian cannons, located on the hills around the city, made a strong impression on the Persians. One of the first shells pierced the dome of the mosque, the second, breaking through the wall of the palace, tore up the portrait of the Shah of Persia. These were very symbolic hits.

The city was accelerated by the Armenian residents, over a thousand people lived in the city of Armenians over 18, they staged unrest and demanded the surrender of Erivan. The fortress surrendered, the sword of the garrison commander Gassan Khan, who once belonged to Tamerlan, was sent as a trophy to the Russian emperor.

The new owner of the sword was asked to repeat the military exploits of Tamerlane, who conquered the Turkish Sultan Bayezid, and "crush the enemies of faith and humanity." More recently, things were called by their proper names.

During the siege and capture of the fortress, Russian troops lost less than 100 people, three thousand enemy soldiers were taken prisoner, around 50 guns and 4 flags.

“Armenia has resurrected from the ashes ... and in this the Armenian nation is obliged to the human-loving Moscow nation, among which we can always live safely and protected,” wrote representatives of the Armenian diaspora in India.

Soon the war was brought to a final. According to the results of the Turkmanchay Treaty concluded, the Erivan Khanate with the ancient city of Erivan (Yerevan), founded as far back as VIII century BC King of Urartu Argishti I, became part of the Russian Empire.
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 22 October 2017 07: 40 New
    13
    “Armenia has risen from the ashes ... and in this the Armenian nation owes to the philanthropic Moscow nation, among which we can always live safely and securely”
    ... However, by the end of perestroika, they had become "occupiers" ..
    1. garnik
      garnik 22 October 2017 08: 20 New
      13
      Quote: parusnik
      ... However, by the end of perestroika, they had become "occupiers" ..

      And where did you read it? Only in the two republics of the former union you will not find the word "Russian occupier" in textbooks, these are Armenia and Belarus. And the fact that a separate scum shouts obscene slogans is enough in Russia.
      1. nnz226
        nnz226 22 October 2017 12: 31 New
        10
        and remember 1918 - 20 years ??? Dashnaks (and now this party is alive, having revived) what yelled ??? Just about the Russian occupation .... And in Yerevan, returned to the Russian Armenians, students and young people of the 80 years did not advocate "non-negligence" ??? Everything ... Everyone was yelling about the Russian invaders, but we in Russia remember that! How does the Holy Scripture say about "once betrayed" ??
      2. polpot
        polpot 22 October 2017 14: 18 New
        10
        I apparently saw in a dream how Armenian nationalists beat the soldiers of the USSR VV at Zvartonts airport in 1988
        1. garnik
          garnik 22 October 2017 14: 36 New
          +1
          And BB soldiers have always been beaten, including in the USSR and Russia. Probably also nationalists? I do not want to exchange reproaches, this is not serious.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. polpot
              polpot 22 October 2017 14: 42 New
              +9
              If you think the beating of the soldiers by the crowd of Natsik is normal, then you are probably right
              1. garnik
                garnik 22 October 2017 15: 23 New
                +2
                Beating any person is not normal. I just want to draw parallels. If explosives are fired in Russia during protests and this is not surprising, the same thing happened in Armenia. Why, then, are Natsik in Armenia and ordinary citizens in Russia.
          2. Felix99
            Felix99 20 December 2017 09: 12 New
            +1
            Look at YouTube, the Armenians accuse Russia of not having revived Greater Armenia, not having conquered most of the territory from the Turks, and Russia needs to be hated for this.
        2. Karen
          Karen 22 October 2017 15: 49 New
          +2
          In a / p Zvartnots, VV soldiers killed the boy, Khachik, it was the first blood.
        3. genisis
          genisis 24 October 2017 11: 04 New
          0
          You were there?
          I didn’t dream about how soldiers and paratroopers with Makashov at the head beat unarmed people.
          The massacre continued outside the airport building, on the Echmiadzin Highway, where a 22-year-old student Khachik Zakaryan, mortally wounding at point-blank range, was trying to capture a clash of demonstrators with troops. The military did not need evidence of their own cruelty. Then stones and bottles flew into the brutal soldiers, as a result of which Captain Fedotov, who was not involved in the events described, was dressed in a military uniform, which was always perceived by the Armenians with deep respect, and on that day became the personification of evil ...
          But Khachik Zakaryan, without regaining consciousness, died an hour and a half after entering the hospital. As a result, no one was punished for this murder, moreover, the case did not even reach the court. Thus, the young photojournalist was the first victim of “events in and around Nagorno-Karabakh” in Armenia.
          The central press burst into abuse and accusations against “Armenian extremists”; a series of “revealing” articles appeared in Moscow publications, photographs of bandaged soldiers were printed, TASS accused the Armenian police of complicity with “extremists”. For example, on July 7, in a story about events at the airport, the correspondent of the Vremya program, a certain Baryshnikov, so “masterfully” cut off interviews from passengers and employees of the airport that it was clear to even a child that these people did not say what I would like to hear to the correspondent.

          An even more cynical distortion of the facts was the broadcast of Central Television on July 14, dedicated to the events at the Zvartnots airport. Viewers in Russia and other republics would hardly be able to understand why, for example, a sailor with a bandaged head began the interview with the words: “I never saw such a thing ... It was scary ...” Yerevan residents found out the truth thanks to the editor of the Armenian TV news program in Russian in the language of Eduard Sakhinov, who, at his own peril and risk, aired this and other interviews in full on July 9 in the interval between the first and second episodes of the feature film “Hamlet”. We learned about the atrocities of the military from battered citizens, from passengers, sellers at the airport, police officers who tried to stop the brutalized warriors. Later, Sakhinov was accused of “political sabotage” at the Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Armenia, dismissed from work and raised the question of expelling him from the party.
          1. Seal
            Seal 24 October 2017 18: 09 New
            +6
            where a 22-year-old student Khachik Zakaryan was mortally wounded by an unidentified Interior Ministry officer,

            Standard training manual. At first, horror films were thrown at us about how "bad Soviet soldiers" killed peaceful Lithuanians who came to defend their television center in Vilnius.
            Not so long ago, the Ukrainians said the same thing and continue to say in relation to their Berkut who allegedly shot the whole "heavenly hundred" in February 2014 in Kiev during the second Maidan.
            But both in relation to the assault on the Vilnius television center, and in relation to the notorious “heavenly hundred”, witnesses have already appeared who saw who and where they actually shot from.

            Oh yes, there were Georgian fairy tales, as one of our paratroopers chased a Georgian old woman with a sapper shovel for several kilometers, cheerfully running away from him through thousands of crowds who took to the streets of Tbilisi, caught up and killed.
            1. genisis
              genisis 24 October 2017 18: 23 New
              0
              But both in relation to the assault on the Vilnius television center, and in relation to the notorious “heavenly hundred”, witnesses have already appeared who saw who and where they actually shot from.

              And in relation to the killer Khachik Zakaryan, no witnesses appeared, although much more years have passed.
            2. Karen
              Karen 24 October 2017 19: 53 New
              0
              But both in relation to the assault on the Vilnius television center, and in relation to the notorious “heavenly hundred”, witnesses have already appeared who saw who and where they actually shot from.
              Is it that hard for you? Even I know the participants :)))
              1. Karen
                Karen 24 October 2017 20: 19 New
                0
                I forgot to clarify - only in Vilnius.
              2. Seal
                Seal 25 October 2017 09: 35 New
                +2
                Yes, and I know. Back in November 2010, a young Lithuanian politician, Algirdas Paleckis, in a Lithuanian radio program concerning those events, said aloud what they were afraid to say in Lithuania even in a whisper: “As it turns out now, they shot their own at their own”.
                And even earlier, in 2004, the Lithuanian writer Vytautas Petkevicius wrote about this in the book “The Ship of Fools”, who, being one of the progenitors of Sayudis, later completely became disappointed with him: “On the conscience of Landsbergis and Audrius Butkevicius (then director of the Territory Protection Department . - G.S.) - blood of thirteen victims. By their will, several dozen disguised border guards were stationed in the Vilnius TV tower. They shot down the crowd with live ammunition. I saw with my own eyes how bullets bounced off the asphalt and ricocheted past my legs. Several injured border guards told me how everything was. They tried to restore the truth through the press, but could not prove anything, because they were deleted from the defenders ... ”

                But with respect to Zakaryan, the moment of truth has apparently not yet arrived. Or never comes. Given the vast experience before which the Lithuanians and Ukrainians are small children.
      3. Bakht
        Bakht 22 October 2017 23: 37 New
        +5
        “... The measure of rejection of all Russian becomes a measure of patriotic feelings: that is, the more I hate the Russian language, Russian books, Russian broadcasts, Russian newspapers, etc., the greater I am a patriot” (“Republic of Armenia”, 1991, No. 32) .
        1. Karen
          Karen 23 October 2017 00: 11 New
          +1
          There was a very strong Russophobian orientation in the newspaper of the Communists.
          Koresh's father worked as the head of the Russian language department, wrote complaints to Moscow, did not respond.
          The liberal minister, the Minister of Internal Affairs, was also a conductor, L. Valensa noted his effectiveness in the opposition ... a couple of years ago I had to say hello to him in a cafe, so then I washed the trace off my palm with sorrel.
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 23 October 2017 00: 28 New
            +2
            Neither Armenia nor NKAO participated in the referendum of March 17, 1991 on the issue of preserving the Union. However, already on September 20, 1990, Levon Ter-Petrosyan (then Chairman of the Armenian Armed Forces) appealed to Yeltsin with a demand for the withdrawal of Allied forces from the NKAR, citing the fact that the Soviet Army is used here by the Union Center and Azerbaijan as a repressive body. This very neglect of the Union, expressed in the choice of the addressee (after all, the USSR still existed, Yeltsin was the head of the RSFSR), said a lot. And the word “occupiers”, addressed to Soviet soldiers and officers, I myself heard from the mouth of the Karabakh children. Of course, it was invested by adults, and these adults were ahead of even the Baltic states in the matter of demands for the withdrawal of allied forces. Incidentally, the then leaders of Armenian public opinion did not hide this. So, the poetess Silva Kaputikyan already in 1995 reminded - without regrets and even, it seems, with pride - that in Armenia the leaders “called for almost the first of all other republics to leave the Union” (Literaturnaya Gazeta, 22. II. . 1995).
            1. Karen
              Karen 23 October 2017 15: 35 New
              0
              I already wrote somewhere ... Lukyanov in his office said: "Do not be surprised if soon there will not be a single Armenian in the NKAR."
              Got swearing at mom ... Calmly went to Gorby.
              _____
              It is clear that ours was preferable to go to Boris.
            2. genisis
              genisis 24 October 2017 11: 08 New
              +1
              So, the poetess Silva Kaputikyan already in 1995 reminded - without regrets and even, it seems, with pride - that in Armenia the leaders “called for almost the first of all other republics to leave the Union”

              Interestingly, she did not recall that on January 19, 1990, the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic adopted the Decree "On the Socio-Political Situation in the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic," according to which it was declared that "the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic is leaving the USSR and declares itself an independent republic " One of the reasons for this step was called that "the terms of the Kars Agreement concluded between Turkey, the Azerbaijan SSR, the Armenian SSR and the Georgian SSR with the participation of the RSFSR" were grossly violated (these "gross violations of the terms of the Kars Treaty" meant "military aggression by the Armenian SSR, as a result of which the territorial integrity of the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was in danger and a real threat to the lives of its citizens arose "). On this occasion, the decree of the Supreme Council of the Nakhichevan Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic said that in order to preserve the territorial integrity of the Nakhichevan Republic, the Republic of Turkey was asking for help. This unrecognized state, existed on the territory of the Soviet Union for ten months and in November 1990 again became part of the Azerbaijan SSR already in the form of the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic. However, this circumstance did not prevent the “Armenian Kosovo” from becoming a subject of international relations. For example, November 15, 1991 Nakhchivan, led by Heydar Aliyev, officially recognized the independence of the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus".
              1. Seal
                Seal 24 October 2017 18: 16 New
                +1
                What is the habit of hiding forever behind the backs of their neighbors? They will answer for their misconduct. You are responsible for your own. And to justify their misconduct by saying that the neighbor did exactly the same is stupid. It’s the same as demanding an excuse on the basis that you killed 10 people, while (well, as you already know, it will be your neighbors) Azerbaijanis killed 11 people. And what, you really, really not at all to blame? No to blame. You must answer for your 10 people. And do not hide behind those who killed 11.
                1. genisis
                  genisis 24 October 2017 18: 25 New
                  0
                  Sergei Petrovich, do not you know how to answer for your)))))
                  A reminder of who was the first to leave the USSR was made specifically so that there would be no speculative thoughts about how everyone wanted to be in the USSR, and the Armenians took and ruined everything.
                  1. Seal
                    Seal 25 October 2017 09: 43 New
                    0
                    Sergey Petrovich, do you not know how to answer for your
                    I always answer for my words. And I answer convincingly. Unlike you. And I’m never trying to introduce an opponent to a Georgian - for example, an Albanian.
                    that January 19, 1990

                    Yes you ? It all started much earlier.
                    1988 year.
                    February 20 - An extraordinary session of the regional council of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region (NKAO) decided to ask the Supreme Councils of the Azerbaijan and Armenian USSR on transferring the region from Azerbaijan to Armenia, as well as the Supreme Soviet of the USSR - to support this option for resolving the issue.
                    June 14 - The Supreme Council of the Armenian SSR agreed to include NKAO in the republic.
                    June 17 - The Supreme Council of the Azerbaijan SSR adopted a decision on the preservation of the NKAR as part of the Azerbaijan SSR.
                    June 22 - re-appeal of the NKAO regional council to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on the transfer of the region to Armenia.
                    July 12 - the session of the regional council of the NKAO adopted a decision on secession from the Azerbaijan SSR.
                    July 18 - the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR announced that it considers it impossible to change the borders and the constitutional basis for the national-territorial division of the Azerbaijan and Armenian SSR.
                    September 11 is the first public call for the restoration of Estonia’s independence on the Singing Field.
                    October 6 - The Supreme Council of the Latvian SSR adopted a decree on giving the state language to the Latvian language.
                    October 30 - popular vote on the issue of language in the Estonian SSR.
                    November 16 - at an extraordinary session of the Supreme Council of the Estonian SSR, a Declaration of Sovereignty and Union Declaration.
                    November 17-18 - at the session of the Supreme Council of the Lithuanian SSR, an amendment to the republic’s constitution was adopted, which provides for giving the Lithuanian language the status of the state language.
                    November 26 - the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the USSR recognized the decisions of the Supreme Council of Estonia of 16.11.88 as invalid due to non-compliance with the Constitution of the Union.
                    December 5-7 - The Supreme Council of the Estonian SSR amended the republic’s constitution, according to which the Estonian language becomes the state language.

                    1989 year.

                    January 12 - the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR introduced a special form of government in the NKAR.
                    February 22 - the appeal of the highest authorities and the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Estonian SSR was published declaring February 24.02 as Estonia's Independence Day.
                    March 18 - in the village of Lykhny of the Gudauta District of the Abkhaz Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, a gathering of thousands of Abkhazians took place, in which both ordinary workers and party-government leaders of the republic took part. On the agenda was the issue of the political status of the Abkhaz Republic. The outcome of the gathering was the adoption of a special appeal to the leaders of the USSR and leading scientists of the USSR Academy of Sciences - “Lykhnensky appeal” with a request “to return Abkhazia to political, economic and cultural sovereignty within the framework of the Leninist idea of ​​the federation”. Under the appeal put their signatures more than 30 thousand people.
                    May 7 - The session of the Supreme Council of Latvia adopted a law on the language by which Latvian was given the status of the state.
                    May 18 - The Supreme Council of the Lithuanian SSR adopted the Declaration on State Sovereignty of the Republic. The supreme councils of Lithuania and Estonia condemned the Soviet-German treaty of 1939 and demanded that it be recognized illegality from the moment of signing. Later the Supreme Council of Latvia joined them.
                    May 29 - The Supreme Council of the Armenian SSR adopted a decree recognizing May 28 as the Day of Restoration of Armenian Statehood.
                    June 6 - a report was published on the adoption by the Supreme Council of the Ukrainian SSR of a law on languages ​​by which Ukrainian receives the status of the state, Russian is recognized as the language of international communication.
                    July 28 - The Supreme Council of the Latvian SSR adopted a law on the sovereignty of the republic.
                    August 22 - The commission of the Supreme Council of the Lithuanian SSR on the study of German-Soviet treaties and their consequences stated that, since these treaties are illegal, they do not have legal force, which means that the Declaration on Lithuania's accession to the USSR and the USSR Law on the Admission of the Lithuanian SSR to the USSR do not act.
                    September 1 - The session of the Supreme Council of the Moldavian SSR adopted a law on the language that recognized Moldovan as the state language, Moldovan and Russian as the languages ​​of international communication.
                    September 19 - A plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU on a national question was convened.
                    September 23 - The Supreme Council of the Azerbaijan SSR adopted a law on the sovereignty of the republic.
                    September 25 - The Supreme Council of Lithuania declared the accession of the republic to the USSR in 1940 illegal.

                    Total first in the "parade of sovereignty" - Estonia, Lithuania, Armenia, Latvia
                    1. genisis
                      genisis 27 October 2017 11: 35 New
                      0
                      Total first in the "parade of sovereignty" - Estonia, Lithuania, Armenia, Latvia

                      Sergei Petrovich, I have long noticed that you have problems with the logic))
                      The sovereignty that you write about meant that the laws of the republics prevailed over the laws of the USSR.
                      And the secession from the USSR, and the declaration of independence in January 1990, meant that the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic was the first to secede from the USSR.
                      She was the first to announce that she was now independent of anyone.
                      What do not you understand?
                      1. Seal
                        Seal 27 October 2017 12: 26 New
                        0
                        She was the first to announce that she was now independent of anyone.

                        Everything is fine with the logic.
                        The sovereignty that you write about meant that the laws of the republics prevailed over the laws of the USSR.

                        We look at the definitions of the term Sovereignty
                        State sovereignty is the inalienable legal quality of an independent state, symbolizing its political and legal independence, supreme responsibility and value as the primary subject of international law, necessary for the exclusive supremacy of state power and implying disobedience to the power of another state, arising or disappearing due to voluntary change in the status of an independent state as an integral social organism, due to the legal equality of independent states and underlying modern international law.
                        And the secession from the USSR, and the declaration of independence in January 1990, meant that the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic was the first to secede from the USSR. She was the first to announce that she was now independent of anyone.

                        Uzbagoytees !! Apart from the Armenians, no one noticed this announcement at that time. Moreover, no real steps were followed.

                        In addition, as I understand it, the Nakhchivan Autonomous Region within the USSR bordered only with the Armenian SSR? So ? And you most likely ceased to let in the Nakhichevan region the goods received there in a planned manner within the framework of the single national economy of the USSR and the single economic space of the USSR, right?
                        That is, the Union leadership of the USSR was unable to protect the Nakhchivan Autonomous Region from the blockade imposed by the Armenian SSR, right?
                        And since the Nakhchivan Autonomous Oblast did not border with anyone other than Armenia (inside the USSR) and Turkey (outside the USSR) - what could it have a real solution to?
                      2. genisis
                        genisis 27 October 2017 13: 05 New
                        0
                        Uzbagoytees !! Apart from the Armenians, no one noticed this announcement at that time. Moreover, no real steps were followed.

                        That is, since you did not know this, then okay. So the Balts and Armenians were the first to leave the USSR.
        2. Karen
          Karen 23 October 2017 00: 32 New
          0
          Bakhtiyar, I want to ask how a person with Kurdish roots ... In which year, during the battle against the Ottomans, did the Kurds suddenly turn their weapons against their allies, Persians and Armenians?
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 23 October 2017 00: 37 New
            +2
            Kurds are the allies of the Armenians? ... :-) Don’t tell my slippers. It was the Kurds who slaughtered the Armenians. And now these are your best friends ....
            I have Kurdish roots, but I'm not Kurdish. I am Azerbaijani.
            1. Karen
              Karen 23 October 2017 01: 01 New
              +1
              With problem history textbooks?

              Somehow I’ll stop by myself.

              The united troops of the Ottomans, Kurds and our Cilicia opposed the Bukhara people.
              Khlat with us opposed Timur ... 7000 Kurds cut off heads were thrown into Van and 3000 of ours.

              When I say to my red-haired friends Shadyans that they are descendants of the Kurdish royal dynasty Shadinyans (Ganja), they also do not believe.
              1. Seal
                Seal 24 October 2017 18: 32 New
                +1
                The united troops of the Ottomans, Kurds and our Cilicia opposed the Bukhara people.

                Who are the "Bukhara"?
                Which "Cilicia"? She is already decent years, as was not. It was the state of the Karamanids.
                If we are talking about Timur, then Samarkand was its capital, and not Bukhara.
                And where did the Serbs go, bearing the brunt of the battle against Timur (Tamerlane) at the Battle of Angora on July 20, 1402? Or have you replaced the Serbs with the Kurds?
                1. Karen
                  Karen 25 October 2017 02: 07 New
                  0
                  Quote: Seal

                  And where did the Serbs go, bearing the brunt of the battle against Timur (Tamerlane) at the Battle of Angora on July 20, 1402? Or have you replaced the Serbs with the Kurds?

                  Thanks for this question, it led me to additional thought.
                  How did you decide that the Serbs bore the brunt of that battle? I, here, I think that they carried all gravity (we don’t take into account the disgrace of the captivity of Bayazid himself). Because the rest of the army, in the number of 40000 souls, joyfully threw itself into the arms of Timur so that he would take them with him to his historical homeland. Bayazid, by the way, was taken there in a cage.
                  1. Seal
                    Seal 25 October 2017 11: 26 New
                    0
                    How did you decide that the Serbs bore the brunt of that battle? I, here, I think that they endured the whole burden
                    If you take your point of view, then it turns out that only the Serbs fought with Tamerlane. But the following circumstances contradict this (further everything according to the official version of the story). The Serbs suffered a severe defeat from the Ottomans in the battle on Kosovo Field in 1389, having lost a lot of those killed. Accordingly, by 1402 the Serbs could not restore their numbers, especially since there was less land in the subordination of Stefan Lazarevich than his father Lazar, who was executed immediately after the battle on the Kosovo field. That is, Stefan could not bring any significant number of troops to the battle with Tamerlan.
                    Then, where did you divide the Turkish troops? It is believed that in the battle of Kosovo, the Ottoman sultan had from two to five thousand Janissaries, 2500 horsemen of the personal guard of the Sultan, 6000 sipahs, 20 azaps and akyndzhis. I believe that he gathered no less for the battle with Timur. At least 000-5 thousand janissaries, the same 7-2500 horsemen of the personal guard of the Sultan, 3000-6000 sipahs ....
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 25 October 2017 11: 52 New
                      0
                      The figure of 40000 Bayazid warriors who went to Timur after the capture of Bayazid was taken from sources in the Soviet historical school. All questions to them. We can just figure out how many there really fought for the sultanate, that for the rest of his life he was put in a cell in Samarkand.
                      1. Seal
                        Seal 27 October 2017 15: 21 New
                        0
                        The figure of 40000 Bayazid warriors who went to Timur after the capture of Bayazid, taken from sources of the Soviet historical school.

                        After the capture of Bayazid, there could be anything. For in fact, the Ottoman Empire for some time as such generally disappeared, because it fell apart into warring parts - it was a struggle of Bayazid children for power. Accordingly, former subjects of the Ottoman Empire could do as they please.

                        But before the capture of Bayazid, even at the very beginning of the battle, 30 thousand white Tatars passed to the side of Tamerlane, as the sources of the Soviet historical school wrote. Which greatly contributed to the defeat of the Bayazid army.
                        However, there were other figures. Most often 16 thousand and 18 thousand.
                        bribed 18 thousand horse Crimean Tatars

                        We can just figure out how many there really fought for the sultanate,
                        What is characteristic is that the Armenians were faithful to the Sultan to the end. It is written, including by Armenians, that when Timur (Tamerlan) either in 1399, or in 1400, or in 1401 approached the city of Sivas that was part of the Ottoman Empire and suggested that the garrison commander surrender the city to him - the garrison commander remained faithful to the Sultan Bayazid also refused Timur to surrender the city. The trick is that both the garrison commander and the entire garrison (according to Soviet and non-Soviet historical schools) consisted of Armenians. Tamerlan, the city of Sivas itself took, but the entire garrison (5 thousand people) was killed.
        3. garnik
          garnik 23 October 2017 09: 04 New
          0
          Words, words ... But in deed. I’m surprised by your knowledge. How many Armenian periodicals did you have to shovel and you need the same year, the number of the newspaper in some cases and lines are marked. Do you want to quote your current anti-Russian press? Maybe I should write your appeals to the Russians, which were first voiced by you, and then in Chechnya. Do not engage in provocation, especially if you have a "snout in the gun."
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 23 October 2017 10: 25 New
            +6
            I do not read your periodical. It was written by Russian authors. Adapted from research by a Russian political scientist. I just point out the Armenian lie. Anti-Sovietism and rejection of the Russians was not written by the Communists, but rather by themselves as liberals of the Armenian flood.
            Russians in Armenia were called occupiers. Did I write that there were no such calls in Azerbaijan? They are now. But the Armenians are trying to hide their negative attitude towards the Russians and are lying. They lie continuously. Want another quote? Although useless.
            The first act of vandalism would be committed in Yerevan in relation to the monument to Pushkin. Russian schools closed in Armenia even more actively than in the Baltic states.
            You have a strange habit of having a discussion. I write that you are lying and quote. And you answer on the principle of "the fool himself."
            By the way, yesterday in the Azerbaijani press there was an article stating that Russia is the enemy of Azerbaijan. So what? Does this relate to the "Russian occupiers in Armenia"?
            1. garnik
              garnik 23 October 2017 12: 51 New
              0
              It is interesting not to Kuznetsov, who openly offered his services for money.
              Anti-Russian sentiments are observed everywhere, even in the CSTO countries. But state policy is wholly on the side of Russia.
              Syria's example is like litmus paper, who is who. And the rest is chatter.
              And the fact that Russia is the enemy of the so-called Azerbaijan, this is a failure of the policy of the Communists. Not those supported, i.e. not autochthonous.
              The fact that you are copying nonsense is a discussion? It is enough to read two lines.
            2. mar4047083
              mar4047083 23 October 2017 13: 35 New
              +3
              Yes, it’s true that these guys have pathological deceit. And for some reason, they always come out dry from the water. Whatever happens, they are never to blame. Civilian trains were blown up - it’s not us, civilian planes were blown up - it’s not us. During the Caucasian War, they caught one hand in the slave trade, acted as intermediaries between the Circassians and Turks in the sale of slaves, not us again (by chance we were here, the Circassians were to blame for everything). They treat everyone so well and warmly that one of the most mono-ethnic republics of the USSR was, and still is. Azerbaijanis constantly oppressed them, and in Baku, up to a certain point, there were a lot of them. But there were no Azerbaijanis in the capital of the peaceful people. And so with all the neighbors. Such nationalism that the Balts with their non-citizens are just children. However, there it is all called the struggle for the rights of the oppressed people, and everything gets away with it.
              1. genisis
                genisis 24 October 2017 11: 12 New
                0
                Azerbaijanis constantly oppressed them, and in Baku, up to a certain point, there were a lot of them.

                For many centuries, there were no problems with the Azerbaijanis, such as Lezghins, Avars, Udins, Tsukhuris, Talyshs, Tatams, and there were no problems, as soon as the Turkish bayonets created the Azerbaijan Republic with the Turks at the head, the problems with the Azerbaijanis immediately began.
                But there were no Azerbaijanis in the capital of the peaceful people.

                It didn’t happen that in Baku and now part of the establishment is called Yerazami, that is, Yerevan Azerbaijanis.
                The forum even has a character with the nickname Yeraz. Ask him how there were no Azerbaijanis in Yerevan.
            3. Karen
              Karen 23 October 2017 14: 46 New
              0
              "You have a strange habit of having a discussion. I write that you are lying and quote. And you answer on the principle of "the fool himself." "
              I do not quite understand about the lie ... who is lying ...
              Quotes from the pages may not be of interest at all - this is when interested bribe-takers who do not shed light on all topics on the subject come into play. Caviar diplomacy, for example, generally works wonders for printing "reputable experts."
              _________
              From your school textbooks in general, it turns out that the Georgians seized Tiflis from you ... should they start scribbling rebuttals as well? !!
              1. mar4047083
                mar4047083 23 October 2017 23: 31 New
                +1
                Of course a strange habit. I use "Photoshop". Photos are naturally wrong. This is not Poroshenko, this Golda Meir lays flowers at the monument to the Nazi criminal. If time permits, you and I will definitely analyze the theory of “kerosene”. And, let readers of VO learn about the "peace-loving" trade tribe. Little is written about it in the press, maybe even here people will find out the truth.
      4. Seal
        Seal 23 October 2017 17: 51 New
        0
        The fact of the matter is that you are so “subtle politicians" that you even shout everything correctly. But the fact remains that the referendum on the preservation of the USSR in their republics was prohibited by the authorities of Armenia, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Estonia (the republics are given in alphabetical order). And if it were not for the support of the referendum from the Central Asian republics and Azerbaijan, the referendum on the preservation of the USSR could be negative.
        1. Karen
          Karen 23 October 2017 21: 00 New
          +2
          Has anyone looked back at this referendum? The flywheel of the collapse rink went.
          And what about the Az.SSR we saw? "People's" demolition of the border with Iran ... Early. The special department of the Caspian flotilla wrote more lines in its reports to Moscow than the three generations of Dumas wrote - that the collapse of the country was being prepared from these actions ... Moscow was not interested in the fortress of the borders - there were puppeteers of the collapse of the empire.
          1. Alex1117
            Alex1117 23 October 2017 23: 00 New
            +1
            Yes, Armenia was not lucky in terms of borders. Not on those bordered. For example, they would have bordered on France - they would have so demolished the border so quickly that Azerbaijanis could not even dream of it. In fact, almost everywhere where the same or closely related peoples lived on opposite sides of the border, the same thing happened as on the Azerbaijani-Iranian border. The border with Afghanistan was opened in Tajikistan, the border with Hungary was opened for local residents in Transcarpathia, and the border with Romania was opened for local residents in Moldova. Adzharians were allowed relations with Turkey. And Armenia was not lucky. At least Lebanon would be abroad. Although, planes flew from Armenia to Beirut back in 1960-1970. And the Armenians calmly flew to Lebanon. They brought sunglasses and jeans.
        2. genisis
          genisis 24 October 2017 11: 14 New
          0
          referendum on the preservation of the USSR could be negative

          And what has changed a lot from the fact that the referendum on the preservation of the USSR was positive? )))
          1. Seal
            Seal 25 October 2017 11: 31 New
            0
            And what has changed a lot from the fact that the referendum on the preservation of the USSR was positive? )))

            That is, you again all lead to the fact that since in your opinion the patient was "hopeless", we ask those six daggers that stuck Armenia, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova and Estonia to be invalid? And at least not to remind about the Armenian dagger?
            1. genisis
              genisis 27 October 2017 11: 37 New
              +1
              we ask those six daggers that stuck in a sick Armenia, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova and Estonia to be considered invalid? And at least not to remind about the Armenian dagger?

              The presidents of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus stuck three deadly daggers into the body of a sick USSR in Belovezhskaya Pushcha.
              This is what you need to remember more often.
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 27 October 2017 11: 42 New
                +3
                Quote: genisis
                This is what you need to remember more often.

                Yes ..but one should not forget the bloody riots in the Baltic states, Transcaucasia and Middle Asia from the filing of the sobchaks and the old-timers, blessed by Gorbachev and Yakovlev.
              2. Seal
                Seal 27 October 2017 15: 25 New
                0
                This is what you need to remember more often.
                And why did you decide that here you are allowed to command, what I need to remember, and what I do not need to remember? Be blown away !!! No you are not a commander here !!!
                Yes, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus stuck their deadly daggers. But in the one in which the daggers of Armenia, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova and Estonia were already sticking out.
    2. mar4047083
      mar4047083 22 October 2017 09: 07 New
      13
      In vain, you think so. For them, Russian troops became “occupiers” immediately after liberation. RI 1903 - attempt on the assassination of Prince Golitsin, 1905 - the assassination of the Baku governor Nakashidze, 1907 - the assassination of General Alikhanov-Avarsky, and even trifles in between - robberies, extortion. It will now be objected that these are royal satraps, but then. 1977 - Moscow, a series of terrorist acts. And what would you think? The first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Armenia is trying to stop the investigation, calling it arbitrariness and lawlessness. 1991 - the murder of a lieutenant colonel of the internal troops of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs. Then the guys arrange train bombings, and sometimes they tried to do it in Russia. They do similar things around the world. 1896 - seizure of a bank in Istanbul, only Europeans were held hostage. 1973 - Santa Barbara, the assassination of the Consul General of Turkey. 1982 - explosion at Orly airport. Lebanon 1972-1982 - killings, explosions, extortion. The modern national "hero" is the Nazi garbage Garegin Nzhdeh with the slogan "Who dies for Germany, he dies for Armenia."
      1. garnik
        garnik 22 October 2017 11: 51 New
        +3
        Until 1977, they killed Enver Pasha, and not only him, one of the culprits of the Armenian Genocide, part-time friend of the Bolsheviks.
        In 1977, carriages were blown up in the Moscow metro, but the designated terrorists pleaded not guilty and 5 days later the sentence was carried out, before and after this incident, they killed no one so quickly.
        In 1991, get acquainted with the reason or if he is Russian, then he is right. Although I am against retaliation of such a plan.
        Undermining the Baku train and bus, this is the work of the Lezghin organization Sadval. Subsequently destroyed by the Baku authorities.
        The murders of Turkish diplomats are ASALA.
        The national hero of Armenia Garegin Nzhdeh, through Tolbukhin himself, achieved an audience with Stalin, but he was remembered for 20 years, when he defended the Kapan region from the Turks and Bolsheviks at the same time, because of which the Turks could not unite into one state. A man who did nasty things in the Second World War would not dare to meet with Stalin.
        1. mar4047083
          mar4047083 22 October 2017 20: 00 New
          +4
          And from 1937 to 1944 they didn’t remember about the activities of the “hero”. The slogan “Who dies for Germany dies for Armenia” was invented by Stalin in order to defame the glorious people .. Well, I won’t write about the heroic military way of forming the SS “Armenia” . I hope you yourself describe their "exploits." Well, the rest is clear, this is not us, it is itself. The train in the Minvody itself was mined, fortunately it did not explode. The captured agents of the special services are not agents at all, but peaceful shawarma merchants who incriminated themselves under torture. In Orly, the villains of the French organized a provocation themselves. In Lebanon, the Arabs are to blame. In Moscow, Brezhnev personally ordered the KGB to undermine the metro and the store, so that they could then blame everything on the peaceful merchants of pasties. The murder of diplomats is right, why pity them. The servicemen of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR are full scoundrels, so they need it. It is President Poroshenko who unveils a monument to a Nazi criminal. Oh, sorry, a national hero. And this is not a complete list of crimes of representatives of a merchant tribe. I have one main claim to the Turks and Jews - if you gave birth to a tribe of parasites, so deal with them yourself, why did you shift the problem of your offspring to the rest. As one respected person said, this tribe, like kerosene, penetrates any leaks and "stinks".
          1. Karen
            Karen 22 October 2017 20: 47 New
            0
            For the last sentence - and he is a shit and you a shit. Kur.you ...
            1. mar4047083
              mar4047083 22 October 2017 21: 02 New
              +3
              That is, everything above kerosene is true? Well, finally, you agreed with the ethnogenesis of the "great people." Next time we will dwell in more detail on the theory of “kerosene”.
              1. Karen
                Karen 22 October 2017 21: 11 New
                0
                Kur.va, about the fact that before this proposal, I do not even want to discuss ...
          2. genisis
            genisis 24 October 2017 11: 35 New
            +1
            I have one main complaint against Turks and Jews - if you gave birth to a parasite tribe

            Armenians gave birth to Turks with Jews? )))
            Can you heal?
    3. SMP
      SMP 22 October 2017 13: 49 New
      +3
      ..However, by the end of perestroika, they had become "occupiers" ..


      They wrote you Russian in white. smile

      [
      “Armenia has risen from the ashes ... and in this the Armenian nation owes to the philanthropic Moscow nation,


      The Moscow nation is philanthropic, and the Russian occupiers wassat
      I hope this is a typo of the author ....
      1. garnik
        garnik 22 October 2017 14: 54 New
        +5
        And that it is necessary to answer the allegations of colleagues in the forum. Or even for you the opinion of a dozen protesting loafers are valued higher than the "line" of the state.
        Armenians will always remember and honor the Russian Empire, understandable in their intentions.
        1. SMP
          SMP 22 October 2017 15: 01 New
          +1
          At the expense of loafers, you are right, but at the expense of the state’s line, the future will show.
          1. garnik
            garnik 22 October 2017 15: 37 New
            +2
            You know, the Armenians were confident in RI. But in the Bolshevik and current power (except during the reign of Stalin), they are wary. In fact, the Russian authorities are making Turkey a nuclear power, building on their money nuclear power plants in Akkuyu and all sorts of preferences, they heard about tomatoes from December 1. All this cannot but worry the Armenians, all the more so for Russia this is not a joy.
            1. SMP
              SMP 22 October 2017 22: 29 New
              +3
              You know, the Armenians were confident in RI. But in the Bolshevik and current power (except during the reign of Stalin), they are wary. In fact, the Russian authorities are making Turkey a nuclear power, building on their money nuclear power plants in Akkuyu and all sorts of preferences, they heard about tomatoes from December 1. All this cannot but worry the Armenians, all the more so for Russia this is not a joy.


              For Russia, the most important thing is to tear off Turkey from the EU, then from NATO.
              For for a thousand years with Western Europe we have been sculpting the same 1000 years, and with Turkey two hundred years, therefore there are more possibilities of application.
              Moreover, the former allies even in the Crimean War of 1857 already threw the Turks.
              Israel is 51 US states, Syria has been defeated and will be restored for more than a decade, Egypt against Israel will be completely zero, and having Turkey as an ally as a counterweight in the future will not hurt.
              Trade relations both in tour business and in construction.
              Countries we have always helped, for example, Bulgaria freed from the Turkish yoke, so what in return? in the second world Bulgaria was on the side of Hitler, now the Bulgarians are again on the side of the enemy in NATO.
              Bulgaria abandoned the gas pipe along the Black Sea; eastern European countries refuse to build new nuclear power plants and service old ones.

              Everything in this world regarding and eternal friendship apparently does not happen.
              I don’t remember Alexander the Third yet, he said Russia has only two allies, the Army and Navy.
              Construction of a nuclear power plant in Turkey is money for the purchase of weapons in the Russian Army and Navy, or Armenia will single them out?
              Fears of the past should not interfere with the future.
              1. Karen
                Karen 23 October 2017 09: 14 New
                0
                " For Russia, the most important thing is to tear off Turkey from the EU, then from NATO.
                For for a thousand years with Western Europe we have been sculpting the same 1000 years, and with Turkey two hundred years, therefore there are more possibilities of application.
                "
                There is another point ... If it were not for the participation of the Germans in the Battle of Molodi, you would have come under the rink planned by the Turks ...
              2. garnik
                garnik 23 October 2017 09: 38 New
                0
                I understand you. Now think, what if the Turkic world unites? Is it good or bad for Russia?
                Eternal friendship, of course, does not happen, if it concerns countries located a thousand kilometers from the borders. And border countries are hostile or friendly.
                At the expense of the Bulgarians, there is our fault. Of course, this does not plead with their actions.
                Alexander 3 said beautifully, but it was relevant for that time.
                As far as I know, the construction of a nuclear power plant in Akkuyu will be on Russian loans. And only the Turks will use half the nuclear power, and Russia will take the other half. And after 25 years, as they say, either the donkey dies or the shah dies. And all this time the Turks will be blackmailing., They are now doing this, and what will happen in the future.
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 26 October 2017 00: 29 New
                  0
                  Quote: garnik
                  Now think, what if the Turkic world unites? Is it good or bad for Russia?

                  This is impossible even if they live all next to each other.
                  Quote: garnik
                  Alexander 3 said beautifully, but it was relevant for that time.

                  this is always relevant and current events in Ukraine are an example of this.
                  Quote: garnik
                  As far as I know, the construction of a nuclear power plant in Akkuyu will be on Russian loans.

                  Unfortunately, our economic bloc does not know more ways to make the earned currency work without accelerating inflation. Therefore, we either give loans for the construction of the same facilities by us or in the USA we invest in pieces of paper.
                  Quote: garnik
                  And all this time the Turks will be blackmailing., They are now doing this, and what will happen in the future.

                  Turks have money and trade between us for $ 40 billion with a prospect of $ 100 billion. What do you have? But nothing, you are rogues and starving people from whom there is no sense.
            2. Seal
              Seal 23 October 2017 18: 13 New
              +2
              But what about this. From the site "Genocide".
              1881 March 13
              In St. Petersburg, as a result of a terrorist act, Emperor Alexander II was killed. For a number of reasons, after the assassination of the emperor the attitude of the Russian authorities towards the Armenian issue is becoming more negative. [4: v. 1, p. 153]

              1885 In the framework of the policy of assimilation of national minorities of the Russian Empire By decree of Emperor Alexander III, the Armenian schools of Transcaucasia were closed. [21: p. 12, 177]

              1903 June 12
              By decree of the chief civilian part of the Caucasus, Prince Golitsyn declared confiscation of property of the Armenian church in Russia. Decree caused sharp rise in anti-government sentiment among Armenians and contributed to strengthening the influence and authority of the Armenian national parties (in particular, Dashnaktsutyun) in the widest sections of the Armenian population. [4: v. 7, p. 641; 30: p. 13]

              October 14 In the Caucasus, Prince Golitsyn was seriously wounded as a result of an assassination attempt organized by the gnatch. [4: v. 3, p. 148]

              I repeat now more connected and expanded.

              It all started with the fact that a certain Armenian priest Joseph promised our Emperor Paul I that during the service in Armenian churches they would glorify the name of the All-Russian Emperor and his family members in the same way as in the Russian Orthodox Church. For this, Paul the First recognized this priest as the most important Armenian hierarch. And only after almost 100 it was revealed that they did not mention in the Armenian churches, did not mention and did not intend to mention the Russian Tsar. And what's more, this is taught in schools. And an absolutely fair decision was made to close the schools, and soon, since the Armenian schools continued to work illegally at the Gregorian churches, a decision was made to take property from this church.
              However, here you need more.
              After the Russian-Turkish war, Loris-Melikov, who showed himself to be a worthless commander, breaking our forces into three columns, as a result of which our troops were besieged in Bayazet, and the other column was essentially idle, rose even higher, becoming a Member of the State Council ( February 11, 1880), Honorary Member of the Imperial Academy of Sciences (29.12.1880/XNUMX/XNUMX).
              And in the last months of the reign of Emperor Alexander II, he served as Minister of Internal Affairs with expanded powers.
              And it was during his leadership of the ministry that the head of state, Emperor Alexander II, was murdered in St. Petersburg in circumstances that indicated the absence of sufficient measures to protect the personal security of the emperor.
              This is the opinion of both Chief Prosecutor Pobedonostsev and the opinion of the new Emperor Alexander III.
              Поэтому первым делом, что сделал Александр III - это выгнал Лорис-Меликова поганой метлой. В письме от 30 апреля 1881 года Александр III писал Победоносцеву: «Я получил сегодня утром письмо гр. Лорис-Меликова, в котором он просит об увольнении под видом болезни. Я ему отвечал и принял его просьбу. <…> Я видел вчера гр. Лорис-Меликова на параде и потом на завтраке у пр. Ольденбургского и хотя он мне ничего не говорил, но видно было по его физиономии, что он весьма недоволен и расстроен».
              But the truly Russian Tsar Alexander III was not limited to Loris-Melikov alone. He instructs the Minister of Internal Affairs Tolstoy to immediately take measures against Armenians and Armenian nationalism as a whole !!!
              And by the end of the 1880s, almost all Armenians were fired from government posts in the Russian Empire.
              In 1885, Armenian schools were closed; in 1889, the course of history and geography of Armenia was excluded from schooling.
              No less cool for the Armenians took our Tsar Nicholas II. At first, in 1897-1899 laws were passed on the transfer of parish schools of Armenia to the Ministry of Education. And on June 12, 1903, the Regulation “On the Concentration of Property Management of the Armenian-Gregorian Church in Russia in the possession of government institutions” was adopted. According to it, all real estate (including profitable land) and capital belonging to the Armenian church and religious institutions passed into the jurisdiction of the state. True, this cannot be called complete confiscation, since the share of their owner, the Armenian religious institutions, was allocated from the proceeds from the sale of confiscated property and cash. And only the First Russian Revolution of 1905, when we were already not up to the Armenians, made Nicholas II turn off this path


              And you say that
              Armenians were confident in RI.
              ??
              Nothing of the kind. Who gave the largest number of "revolutionaries" who opposed our state - the Russian Empire? Sorry, but they were Jews, Georgians, Armenians. Well, or Georgians, Jews, Armenians. Or Armenians, Jews, Georgians. Like it or not, but it was these three people. Apparently the most "confident" in the Russian Empire hi
              Oh yes, there were still Poles. In the "honorable" fourth place.
              1. Karen
                Karen 23 October 2017 21: 09 New
                0
                Among the revolutionaries we had Zionists, and the Armenians were among the fighters - to defend the right to language and history. But the Zionists did their vile deed. All the coherence of the actions of the leadership of the Bolsheviks and Dashnaks was highlighted after Brest-Litovsk ... and then on increasing ...
                1. Seal
                  Seal 25 October 2017 11: 35 New
                  0
                  That is, the Zionists led the Armenian fighters?
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 25 October 2017 12: 27 New
                    0
                    I should have designated - "ordinary soldiers." Therefore, it turned out to send them to certain death, and on critical days to draw the line necessary for the Zionists. I already wrote about the coherence of their actions with the Bolsheviks after Brest-Litovsk ... Then the turn came for the surrender of Yerevan, the keys to the city were prepared, an orchestra, bread and salt ... But then the military personnel nailed the Zionists, and forced them not to interfere with the aggressor. The Zionists again managed to annoy - when the Turkish troops began to scrape off the field in Sardarapat - a dispatch came from Yerevan not to pursue the enemy ... A few days later the Turkish troops were surrounded in the gorge north of Yerevan, but Dro gave the order not to shoot at the enemy .. and they through a few days slowly left the gorge and went to sign the Batumi conspiracy ...
                    ... Seeing that he was betrayed, Andranik announced the accession of Nakhichevan to the Baku commune ...
                    Then the turn came for the Zionists to neutralize Andranik and surrender Baku to the Turks - in this place we again saw the coherence of the actions of the Dashnaks and Bolsheviks (the shooting of 26 commissars should not be misleading).
                    ______
                    Somewhere I saw your mention of the Dashnaks treaty of Alexandropol at the end of their rule ... they justified themselves by simultaneously signing two treaties - with Turkey and the Sov. Russia - such a kind of rigged up there that it turns out you can maneuver.
                    ___________
                    In general, much more is in their deeds ...
              2. genisis
                genisis 24 October 2017 11: 38 New
                +1
                Nothing of the kind. Who gave the largest number of "revolutionaries" who opposed our state - the Russian Empire? Sorry, but they were Jews, Georgians, Armenians. Well, or Georgians, Jews, Armenians. Or Armenians, Jews, Georgians. Like it or not, but it was these three people. Apparently the most "confident" in the Russian Empire

                Sorry, but the Georgian revolutionary created the greatest country on the planet. Neither before him, nor after, nor in the Republic of Ingushetia, nor in the USSR, nor, moreover, in the Russian Federation did not a single ruler achieve this result.
                1. Seal
                  Seal 25 October 2017 11: 40 New
                  0
                  Sorry, but the Georgian revolutionary created the greatest country on the planet. Neither before him, nor after, nor in the Republic of Ingushetia, nor in the USSR, nor, moreover, in the Russian Federation did not a single ruler achieve this result.

                  Sorry but all this was then. After the tens of millions of my compatriots died in the First World War and in the Civil War and then from starvation For example, I am quite happy with the option of maintaining peace with Turkey in 1914, receiving help from allies in the Black Sea ports closest to the theater of operations with Germany and Austria-Hungary, defeating Germany back in 1916 and preserving the Russian Empire. Accordingly, the Second World War, which claimed the lives of at least another 25 million Slavs, is a priori excluded.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 25 October 2017 12: 42 New
                    0
                    About 40 years ago I read who specifically in the Republic of Ingushetia proposed the development option in forcing Turkey into:
                    1. Neutrality.
                    2. The enemy.

                    Naturally, in 1914. All this was known in Berlin, of course - in Istanbul too.
                    That is, the Mshakovites did not influence the decision-making of the Turks.
                  2. genisis
                    genisis 27 October 2017 11: 40 New
                    0
                    Sorry, but it was all later.

                    Sorry, but with respect to now - that's it "it was later".
                    However, this does not negate the fact that it was the Georgians who achieved the most outstanding successes in managing the Russian state.
                    1. Seal
                      Seal 27 October 2017 15: 28 New
                      0
                      However, this does not negate the fact that it was the Georgians who achieved the most outstanding successes in managing the Russian state.

                      Again. I was quite satisfied with the Russian State in the form of a single and indivisible Russian Empire. If our Empire had not perished, we would not need any “great Georgians”.
                      1. genisis
                        genisis 27 October 2017 16: 13 New
                        0
                        Again. I was quite satisfied with the Russian State in the form of a single and indivisible Russian Empire.

                        Given that at the time when RI ceased to exist, you were not in the world, then to judge how it satisfied you, at least not correctly.
                        If our Empire had not perished, we would not need any “great Georgians”.

                        The great Georgian was needed not for you, but for History. Which course does not depend on the desires of individuals. And history does not have a subjunctive mood either. For example, I would like for RI to defeat Turkey in World War I and the Armenians to keep Ararat, Kars, Alexandropol, access to the Black Sea. But RI has disappeared, and now it makes sense to regret it?
            3. Seal
              Seal 25 October 2017 11: 34 New
              0
              Moreover, all this is not a joy for Russia either.
              Wow, how brave you are !!! Have you been authorized to determine the degree of our joy? Or did you yourself take on this difficult burden?
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. ando_bor
      ando_bor 22 October 2017 16: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      ... However, by the end of perestroika, they had become "occupiers" ..

      And do you happen to work as a secret in the State Department?
      There is a lot of hired online, - professionals, they have time to throw the first comments.
  2. Basil50
    Basil50 22 October 2017 08: 18 New
    +9
    Now there are much fewer Armenians in Armenia than in RUSSIA, but all the same, Armenians have all the troubles of the RUSSIANS who refuse to serve * the great Armenia *. It is even more strange to hear from the Armenians the programmatic statements of the Armenian parties.
    It is time to introduce proportionality in relations not only with Armenians, but also with others as proud and independent. How many RUSSIANS live in Armenia as many Armenians should be in RUSSIA. The rest are home. Let their own national relations be built there and * thrive * their Armenia. It is required to help the Armenians in establishing the economy.
    1. garnik
      garnik 22 October 2017 09: 09 New
      +9
      The Armenians have enough of their “basil50s”, never remember in history, starting from visiting the Russian army under the leadership of Prince Oleg of the Armenian Karabakh (Ar.tsakh) and until now, the Armenians have never opposed Russia, which cannot be said about others.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 22 October 2017 11: 52 New
        +3
        garnik
        Nude, Nude. To your own opinion, you would also have knowledge.
        After the WWII in RUSSIA * the whites * unleashed the Civil War and the Armenians were no different from either the Georgians or the Azerbaijanis, they began to slaughter everyone they could reach. Do you yourself know about the nationalist parties that seized power there? And what slogans did these nationalists have? And about how they cut out all * non-Georgians, non-Armenians, non-Azerbaijanis * you know? Or have you forgiven yourself and your accomplices? And who is now in power in these terribly independent? And where did the RUSSIAN who lived in these republics? Forgive yourself for the massacre again?
        What was happening in Transcaucasia was no less bloody than in Chechnya.
        1. Basil50
          Basil50 22 October 2017 12: 24 New
          +3
          And yet, all sorts of different Nazis and nationalists, do not dare to touch the great RUSSIAN figures of culture, science and politics. This is about Dzhigarkhanyan and about Baghramyan and about Petrosyants and about many millions of other equally RUSSIAN.
          The Nazis and nationalists have their * heroes * and be proud of them.
          1. Karen
            Karen 22 October 2017 13: 31 New
            +2
            I hope you bury the Dzhigarkhanyan there in your Jewish cemetery ... he has earned it for at least 29 years ... as he calls for giving Karabakh to the enemy.
            1. alexsipin
              alexsipin 22 October 2017 21: 44 New
              +4
              Quote: Karen
              I hope you bury the Dzhigarkhanyan there in your Jewish cemetery

              Dzhigarkhanyan is a great actor. Millions of people know and appreciate him. And you're nobody - zero, schizophrenic anti-Semite. In fact, it is a pity that he is not a Jew. We would be proud of such an ACTOR.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. garnik
            garnik 22 October 2017 14: 28 New
            +3
            The Armenians are a small people, and no one can forbid them to be proud of the same Baghramyan who fought in the WWII against the Turks as part of Armenian troops. And any Armenian serving Russia also serves his historical Motherland. And there are always provocateurs.
        2. garnik
          garnik 22 October 2017 14: 16 New
          +1
          I have sufficient knowledge of the history of Transcaucasia. The Armenians responded with the same “coin” in relation to the aggressors, mainly to the Turks, the war was provoked by the Turks with the Georgians. Leaving their troops from the border territories of Armenia and Georgia, they invited these countries to take their place. And there was a war between fraternal peoples, but not one civilian was not killed by the Georgians, at least, under the threat of execution, the Armenians were forbidden to touch peaceful Georgians. And at the expense of the Russians, General Denikin sent military assistance to the Armenians, although he also lacked in the fight against the Trotskyists. Is this because the Armenians killed the Russians? The only thing is when the Bolsheviks and the Turks tried to take Zangezur, then when they were defeated, the Bolsheviks agreed with Nzhdeh i.e. he disbands his troops, and in return Zangezur remains part of Armenia.
          1. Seal
            Seal 25 October 2017 12: 11 New
            0
            And at the expense of the Russians, General Denikin sent military assistance to the Armenians, although he also lacked in the fight against the Trotskyists

            Well, yes, he sent several million rounds. And that was all military help. Let's see what A. Denikin himself says.

            To the extent of our limited capabilities, we provided some assistance to Armenia, mainly by caring for its refugees and their re-evacuation. Sending bread through Georgia was impossible, and its transport, sent in January 1919, was seized or not passed by the Georgians. However, in July, at the most difficult moment, we managed to transport to Erivan with great difficulties, bypassing Georgia, through Batum to Ardagan by land transport with several million rounds of ammunition. In the autumn, the “orientation” changed again and, in connection with this, the attitude towards us: in August I came to Yekaterinodar “beginning. gene. PC. Armenia ”, regiment Zinkevich, who returned to Erivan already as“ Military representative of the Armed forces of the South of Russia ”, met there“ underlined solemnly, according to the highest ritual ”. Thus, our “alliance with Armenia,” which the Georgians so scared and did not like the British, belonged to one of the Georgian legends.

            Considering the fact that in 1919 only England supplied Denikin 558 guns, 12 tanks, 1685522 shells, 160 million rounds of ammunition, sending a couple of millions of rounds to Armenia could not affect his fight against the “Trotskyists”.
      2. Seal
        Seal 23 October 2017 18: 27 New
        +2
        Quote: garnik
        Armenians have never opposed Russia

        Is it really never ???

        The chronicle says: On the same autumn, when the Horde prince came, Prince Mamai ate his like-minded people, and ate with all the other princes of the Horde, and ate with all the power of Totarskaya and Polovtsy, and, moreover, ratified Bessermen, and Armenians, and Mud, Cherkasy, and Yasy, and Burtasy.
        Novgorod IV Chronicle. PSRL. T. 4, part 1. P. 311
        In my opinion it is clearly written that Among the mercenaries, Armenians are second in number. The former are some “bezermyns,” the latter are the Armenians, and already “Fryaz, Cherkasy, and Yasy, and Burtasy” are behind the Armenians.
        Or do you think the "Armenians" mentioned in the annals are not Armenians? Who ? Ethiopians?

        Well, in addition to the direct attack, there were other ways to do us nasty things.

        Here our troops stood in Gyumri (Alexandropol) in 1813. They stood up to protect the Armenians from Turkey and Persia. So to speak, they covered the front. And what did the Armenians do at this time in our rear, in the North Caucasus.
        "The slave trade that has been practiced in the region for centuries has led to the emergence of intermediaries in the person of merchants, whose slave trade has turned into a special trade. In the accident, part of the slaves were sold to eastern merchants through buyers in Derbent, Tarki, Aksay ... According to pre-revolutionary authors," ... This the Armenians were intensely engaged in trade, who did not abandon this trade with the advent of Russians in the Caucasus. Using their position, they helped the highlanders to steal people within our borders, receiving appropriate remuneration from the highlanders for this, and then helped the Russian Government in negotiations with the highlanders about the ransom of the same prisoners - also not without remuneration, or they bought themselves out to resell them to the Russians ... ”[17, p. 7].
        Shamray V.S. Historical background to the issue of yasir in the North Caucasus and the Kuban region. B.M. B.g. S. 6, 7. "
        Could this be an accident? Here is another reference.
        A.A. Novoselsky. The struggle of the Moscow state with the Tatars in the first half of the 1948th century. M.-L., 208.S. XNUMX.
        "..On July 10 [1631] Moscow envoys to the Crimea, Voyeykov and Zverev became aware that Bakhchisarai was brought Russian full for sale overseas. Tolmach and the clerk brought to the camp Andrei Lazarev, a village cossack from Ryazhsk, who said that he was taken full of Tatars (there were 500 legs and 80 Crimeans) in Petrovskaya Sloboda; 75 people were full; of this number 25 people were Crimeans. The king (the Tsar in this case is the Crimean Khan - my footnote) chose “head duties” 5 people: the son of the boyars, two village cossacks and two wives. They brought them to Bakhchisarai and set them before the king; the tsar asked them and chose the wife Lyubavka in his yard, and the rest he gave to the Armenians for sale overseas. The messengers immediately sent the king to speak of this and demanded the return of full; the neighbor denied them that: “it didn’t happen in advance that he was completely free to give.” However, the envoys defended A. Lazarev, despite the demand of the Armenians, and took him with them to Russia."
        The fact that the Armenians did not disdain to trade Christians is also confirmed by foreigners. For which the Armenian slave traders were mercilessly slaughtered by our Cossacks.
        Here is the testimony of an independent foreigner, Dominican d'Ascoli, prefect of Caffa, 1634. “In addition, Moscow Cossacks watch the ships, guard the aisles, and although the owners carefully find out when the Cossacks sailed to the Black Sea, it nevertheless very often happens that the ships involuntarily fall into their hands, being plundered and enslaved; Turks (Tourchi) are killed, Christians are granted redemption, unless they themselves bought slaves; in this case, they are killed mercilessly, as was the case last year with many Armenians. ".

        Yes, the Crimean Armenians themselves didn’t go to Russia for captives (they tried it once with Mamai - well, everyone stayed on Kulikov Field, they didn’t try it anymore). But let me put the question like this: Would the Crimean Tatars and Nogai be so active in attacks on us if they were not sure about the sale of captives? And the sale of our ancestors captured in prison, as can be seen from the documents, was largely carried out by the Crimean Armenians. That is, in fact, we can say that the customers of the Tatar and Nogai raids in Russia to a certain extent were Armenian slavers. Is not it ?
        1. Karen
          Karen 23 October 2017 20: 38 New
          +1
          Maybe not so ... Where was the demand? From Turkey ... A couple of Armenians delivered? Maybe the Armenians only on the passport? Here is the first official millionaire cooperator, too, was an Armenian only by passport.
          Here with Mamai - we were allies, helped each other. The ancestor of Michael Tariverdiev also fought against you there, and his son - for you and us in Afghanistan.
          1. Seal
            Seal 26 October 2017 18: 54 New
            0
            Maybe not so ... Where was the demand? From Turkey...
            It’s more interesting here. Muslim Turks were not interested in acquiring slaves. Slaves were still expensive. And to keep them "in slavery" could be 7 years. After which it was necessary to let go. Moreover, slave owners always had a risk that the slave would declare a desire to convert to Islam. Then it must be released immediately, after the adoption of Islam. Yes, there were probably options somewhere in mountain villages to hide slaves and keep them out longer. Nevertheless, this did not threaten most of the captives. Therefore, I personally believe that our captives were sold to Europe or Africa. In Venice, some embankment was even called "Slave."
        2. genisis
          genisis 24 October 2017 11: 45 New
          +1
          According to the annals: On that same autumn, the princes of Mamai came from the Horde of Horde with their like-minded people

          Our song is good, start over)))))
          Sergey Petrovich, can you prove that Mamai even existed?
          Where he was born?
          Who are the parents?
          Evidence of tribesmen?
          And so on.
          1. Seal
            Seal 25 October 2017 12: 18 New
            0
            Boris Abramovich, you either remove the cross or put on your underpants.
            You finally decide whether you agree that a really documented history begins from the 15th-16th centuries of our era (and it’s just beginning), and all that could happen earlier is just someone’s private opinions, some of which are for for many years they became common and acquired the status of the official traditional version of history (but did not become any more conclusive from this). Including all your "great ancient Armenian kingdoms" and so on. And then I will personally speak with you in a completely different way.
            Or, if you continue to insist on the correctness of the traditional official version of the development of historical events, then if you please, eat everything that this traditional version of history has prepared for you. Including Mamaia hi
            1. Karen
              Karen 26 October 2017 22: 47 New
              0
              Quote: Seal
              Boris Abramovich, you either remove the cross or put on your underpants.
              You finally decide whether you agree that a really documented history begins from the 15th-16th centuries of our era (and it’s just beginning), and all that could happen earlier is just someone’s private opinions, some of which are for for many years they became common and acquired the status of the official traditional version of history (but did not become any more conclusive from this). Including all your "great ancient Armenian kingdoms" and so on. And then I will personally speak with you in a completely different way.
              Or, if you continue to insist on the correctness of the traditional official version of the development of historical events, then if you please, eat everything that this traditional version of history has prepared for you. Including Mamaia hi

              I’m interfering here ... That's all that is connected with the name of our _Mkhitar Gosh_ - it is possible and necessary to perceive it as the ultimate truth ... it’s not just that his works were accepted in other countries.
              Highly recommend for immersion in the events of those years.
            2. genisis
              genisis 27 October 2017 12: 00 New
              0
              Or if you continue to insist on the correctness of the traditional official version of the development of historical events

              Sergey Petrovich, I can only insist on what I saw / created / felt myself. And then, only in relation to himself.
              1. Seal
                Seal 27 October 2017 15: 42 New
                0
                I can only insist on what I saw / created / felt myself.

                That is, with this comment of yours, you publicly declare that you no longer insist on either "genocide" or the "great antiquity of the Armenian people," etc. etc. ? Well, congratulations on your insight. Better late than never.
                1. genisis
                  genisis 27 October 2017 16: 23 New
                  0
                  that you no longer insist on either "genocide" or the "great antiquity of the Armenian people", etc. etc. ?

                  Sergei Petrovich, what you call a certain abstract word "genocide" for me personally is expressed in the fact that my great-grandfather, grandfather of my father was killed by the Turks for his Armenian nationality. Therefore, for me personally, "genocide" has a very clear outline.
                  As for great antiquity, some of my relatives still live in the very village where the grave of the ancestor of our branch of the family is located. He was buried in 1628. In my opinion, this is a long time ago. Where the ancestor came to this highland village, I do not know.
                  As for the antiquity of the whole nation, then yes, the Armenians are an ancient nation. The point of arguing about this? Have you ever been to Armenia?
                  1. Seal
                    Seal 27 October 2017 17: 59 New
                    +1
                    Have you ever been to Armenia?

                    It was. With a guided tour. Even under the USSR.
                    The point of arguing about this?

                    Of course, there is no point. If you admitted that there is no documentary evidence of what was before the 15-16 centuries of our era - no. No evidence - no antiquity. Is not it ?
                    My great-grandfather, grandfather of my father was killed by the Turks for his Armenian nationality.

                    It is the Turks? And definitely not the German machine gunners or gunners? And not the Kurds? Or maybe they died of starvation or typhoid? Or drowned during a poorly organized crossing of some river during eviction?
                    And just for nationality? Definitely not for armed resistance?

                    And further. Let's understand that there was a war. There was an eviction of unreliable citizens from the frontline. By the way, during the First World War, the Tsarist government massively exported Jews from our country.

                    By the way, here we take a similar event, which took place a little more than 100 years before 1915.
                    Let me remind you that in 1778, at the direction of Catherine II, our A.V. Suvorov (whom the Armenians completely completely consider to be an Armenian by mother) carried out the resettlement of Armenians from Crimea. Conditions are the most favorable.
                    The resources of both the Russian Empire and the Crimean Khanate are used to organize the resettlement. Nobody takes anything from anyone. A.V. Sam Suvorov oversees and organizes everything. Crimea, although it still formally remains Tatar, but in Crimea there are our troops and there is our governor Konstantinov. Distance - nothing at all, from Crimea to reach Rostov-on-Don.
                    And what do you think? According to Armenians, more than half of those resettled died during this relocation !!! The main Armenian Crimean archimandrite Petros Markosyan also died during the transition. It is characteristic that the rich merchants are Armenians: the Khatranovs, Khodzhaevs, Abramovs calmly sailed to a new place of residence across the Sea of ​​Azov on their ships.
                    But these wealthy merchants did not help the resettled in 1778.
                    As the richest 1915-thousandth Istanbul-Armenian community did not help resettled in 200.

                    What are we waiting for when the Armenians accuse us of the 1778 genocide? Taki no longer have to wait. Look on the Internet - already blamed.

                    On the genocide. Recently, lovers of genocides divorced - at least one place you eat them. The recognition of these "genocides" is a purely political game. And directed against us, against Russia. Looking at the Armenians, Georgia recognized five years ago "the genocide of the Circassians by Russia."
                    The next step is the recognition of the "Circassian genocide" by Ukraine. Lyashko said last year that "Parliament recognizes ...". And this means that they will continue to blackmail us in the same way with the "Circassian genocide," as Turkey is now blackmailing us with the "Armenian genocide."
                    By the way, we must pay tribute to Turkey - the Turks did not take an example from us and in response to our recognition of the "Armenian genocide" did not proclaim that Turkey recognizes the "genocide of the Circassians."
                    And somewhere else, discussions are going on to accuse Russia of the genocide of the Chechens.
                    Ukraine demands that Russia recognize responsibility for the genocide of Ukrainians in the 1930s.

                    It's time to finish these games. Well, Armenians believe that they had genocide - well, let them believe in their health. What do all nations want to convert to their faith? And even the Turks :)
                    And most importantly. Well, someone can imagine that in 1939-1945, five hundred thousand Jews would have lived quietly in Berlin, their synagogues would have functioned, and until 1944 the Chief Rabbi of Germany served in the main synagogue of Berlin, who was evacuated away from the war in 1944, for example to Austria?
                    And in 1914-1920, 200 thousand Armenians calmly lived in Istanbul. Of which several hundred have suffered all the time, and not for the fact that they are Armenians, but for specific actions - for criminality, for politics - for example, members of the Hnchak party called for the defeat of Turkey in the war. The defeatists were not liked in one of the warring countries then. Where they shot, where they put them in prisons, where they sent them to hard labor, where they hung them, where they took them to the army and sent them to attack on machine guns. Armenian churches calmly operated in Istanbul, and the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople served in the main Armenian temple in Istanbul. Which, after the Anglo-French troops landed on the Gallipoli Peninsula near Constantinople in April 1915, in 1916 the Turks evacuated away from the war in Baghdad.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. genisis
                      genisis 28 October 2017 00: 23 New
                      0
                      And where were you with the tour? What did you see?
                      To prove antiquity is a thankless task. All that I saw with my own eyes is enough for me.
                      As for the Turks, yes, it is the Turks from the neighboring village. Is it genocide? For me personally, this is a civilizational confrontation between the settled farmers of the Armenians and the nomadic pastoralists of the Turks.
    2. genisis
      genisis 24 October 2017 11: 40 New
      +1
      The Russian Federation is a multinational, multiconfessional state. And it’s not for you to decide when and where to leave the citizens of the Russian Federation who are absolutely equal in rights with you.
      1. Seal
        Seal 27 October 2017 15: 52 New
        +1
        The Russian Federation is a multinational, multiconfessional state. And it’s not for you to decide when and where to leave the citizens of the Russian Federation who are absolutely equal in rights with you.


        The Russian Federation is not a multiconfessional state.
        Article 14 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
        1. Russian Federation - secular state. No religion can be established as state or mandatory.
        2. Religious associations are separated from the state and are equal before the law.

        And it’s not for you to decide when and where to leave the citizens of the Russian Federation who are absolutely equal in rights with you.
        And here let me disagree. Citizen strife to citizen. I must be completely sure that, so to speak, the “new citizens” of our country will not shoot our soldiers in the back if our country has to fight with the country that is the historical homeland for our new citizens like you. As I understand it, you did not take any oath of unconditional allegiance to Russia and serving exclusively the interests of the Russian Federation when you acquired our citizenship. And in our army you most likely also did not serve. Although even if they served, this does not guarantee anything, since the oath is valid only for active servicemen. It is not without reason that if mobilizers are called up for war on storage, they again take the oath. Tell me, do you personally have a second passport by chance? Armenian, American, French or Israeli? Do you have relatives abroad of the Russian Federation?
        1. genisis
          genisis 27 October 2017 16: 40 New
          +1
          1. The Russian Federation is a secular state. No religion can be established as state or mandatory.
          2. Religious associations are separated from the state and are equal before the law.

          How does this cancel a large number of religious denominations in Russia ????
          For example, Saudi Arabia is not a multiconfessional state, unlike the Russian Federation.
          I hope I clearly explained what I mean. I have not written anywhere that multiconfessionality is enshrined in the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
          And here let me disagree. Citizen strife to citizen. I must be completely sure that, so to speak, the “new citizens” of our country will not shoot our soldiers in the back if our country has to fight with that country that is the historical homeland for our new citizens like you.

          Firstly, you and I received citizenship of the Russian Federation at the same time, as soon as citizenship of the Russian Federation generally appeared as a category. Therefore, you are the same "new citizen" as I am.
          Secondly, I do not think that during the war between Russia and Armenia, at least one person with a surname ending in YAN will be calm in the Russian Federation. Now you can easily meet a frenzied Natsik and lose your life, and in case of war, I think, the chances of an Armenian living in Russia will be very small. At least the Armenians will be interned. Therefore, I will leave Russia. Will I fight for Armenia against the Russian Federation? It depends on what kind of war it will be. If the Russian Federation attacks Armenia, then yes, I will fight. If the Armenians attack the Russian Federation, then no. In any case, Armenia will lose in such a war, but only for its protection does it make sense to die. To fight in a war when some crazy interests will push Armenians to Russia, I do not consider it possible for myself.
          Reserve officer.
          I don’t have a second passport. There are relatives in Armenia. Maybe there are in other countries, but I do not know about them.
          1. Seal
            Seal 27 October 2017 17: 47 New
            0
            If the Russian Federation attacks Armenia, then yes, I will fight. If the Armenians attack the Russian Federation, then no.

            This is what we are distinguished by. You begin to reason - this is how I (you) will fulfill my sacred duty to protect my Motherland - the Russian Federation, and if so - then well, it’s in figs, this “sacred duty”.
            But for example, the Germans, passing into our Russian citizenship, did not bargain like that. Neither in the 18th, nor in the 19th centuries, when the Germans began to move to the territory of the Russian Empire, there were no cases of refusal of our, Russian Germans, even those who still did not have time to learn the Russian language, to fight against Prussia or Austria (the same Germans, only in profile). And for them it did not matter who attacked whom. The Germans had the correct orientation that if you (a German) became a subject of the Russian Empire, then go and fight where your new homeland, the Russian Empire, will send you and against whom the Russian Empire will send. Without reasoning, they say, I will fight against these, but I will not fight against these. And you, again, begin to bargain. I won’t! And also say that you are exactly the same citizen of Russia, like me !!!
            1. genisis
              genisis 28 October 2017 00: 27 New
              0
              Sergey Petrovich, our difference is completely different. You are a Russian nationalist, I am a citizen of the Russian Federation. That’s the whole difference.
  3. Karen
    Karen 22 October 2017 08: 58 New
    +2
    Anything has happened in 160 years.
    Sometimes, Armenian immigrants from Turkey, seeing the attitude of the official authorities towards them, massively returned ....
    It was, for example, 115 years ago:
    “The Russian official press launched a campaign of persecution of Armenians and their liberation movement. In the Caucasus, V. L. Velichko, editor of the official newspaper“ Kavkaz ”became especially famous for this. He labored under Prince S. G. Golitsyn, the former head of the Caucasus in 1896-1904. and famous for his dictum: “I will bring to the point that the only Armenian in Tiflis will be a stuffed Armenian in the Tiflis Museum!” (Amphitheater, p. 52).

    Finally, in 1902, Nicholas II issued a decree on confiscation of property of the Armenian Church and on the closure of Armenian schools. It was an outright robbery. The people defended the robbed Church; performances were suppressed by weapons. There were many casualties. Prince M. A. Nakashidze, an Armenian phobe, was soon appointed Governor-General of the Baku Province and was the main organizer of the Baku massacre led the "operation" to seize church property.
    ___________
    It was Nicholas II’s intention to fully consume the water of Lake Sevan for hydroelectric power stations - the Baku oil fields needed electricity, but he was not interested in the fact that the population would have to leave it ... as he explained - this territory was needed only to accommodate his soldiers, and he could feed them from the mother country.
    _____________________
    What the Bolsheviks arranged in conjunction with the Turks is clear to everyone.
    _______
    During the years of perestroika, all local Russophobia was organized by the KGB of the USSR .... Both Levon Ter-Petrosyan and A. Elchibey among their neighbors - this is their product, for the fire of war - in the collapse of the country .... When A. Sobchak spoke. " .. I am ready to give up my mandate to the candidate chosen by the people of the NKAR "- from the same series.
    1. mar4047083
      mar4047083 22 October 2017 20: 15 New
      +3
      And, I want to remind you of Armenian folk wisdom.
      "The Catholicos of all Armenians is dying.
      “My children,” he says to those gathered around his deathbed, “take care of the Jews more than anything else!” Because when they end the Jews, they will take over the Armenians! "


      - Armenian folk wisdom.
      1. alexsipin
        alexsipin 22 October 2017 21: 48 New
        +2
        Quote: mar4047083
        “My children,” he says to those gathered around his deathbed, “take care of the Jews more than anything else!” Because when they end the Jews, they will take over the Armenians! "

        I can only wish wisdom to the Armenians. Unfortunately, I often see Armenian anti-Semitism on the site.
        1. Krasnodar
          Krasnodar 22 October 2017 22: 52 New
          -1
          Quote: alexsipin
          Quote: mar4047083
          “My children,” he says to those gathered around his deathbed, “take care of the Jews more than anything else!” Because when they end the Jews, they will take over the Armenians! "

          I can only wish wisdom to the Armenians. Unfortunately, I often see Armenian anti-Semitism on the site.

          You will not hear anti-Semitic statements from successful Armenians. I live in the Krasnodar Territory, where there are slightly more Armenians than before a fig - those who do not buy Mercedes on credit, living in a shack and busy with business, have a positive attitude towards Jews.
          1. garnik
            garnik 23 October 2017 09: 49 New
            +1
            You are right countryman. (I am from the Prikubanki district). But when the Jews openly support the Zakurkites against the Armenians, it is difficult to resist. I already wrote that in Moscow, three of my relatives have Jews, and I only hear good things about them. It is clear that hatred of other nations can be heard from the lips of a person offended by the whole world. This does not apply to historical enemies.
            1. Krasnodar
              Krasnodar 24 October 2017 03: 00 New
              0
              Quote: garnik
              You are right countryman. (I am from the Prikubanki district). But when the Jews openly support the Zakurkites against the Armenians, it is difficult to resist. I already wrote that in Moscow, three of my relatives have Jews, and I only hear good things about them. It is clear that hatred of other nations can be heard from the lips of a person offended by the whole world. This does not apply to historical enemies.

              Personally, I treat good people well, and I do not divide nations into good and bad :)
              Azerbaijani Jews naturally support the Turks, as they grew up in this culture. Personally, I have neutrality in this matter, because I was not deeply interested in the issue, and I have friends both among Armenians and Azerbaijanis. I assure you that both those decent and positive people :) I try not to communicate with others.
    2. Seal
      Seal 27 October 2017 16: 05 New
      0
      Finally, in 1902, Nicholas II issued a decree on confiscation of property of the Armenian Church and on the closure of Armenian schools. It was an outright robbery.

      Not a decree. And not about confiscation.
      June 12, 1903 was adopted Regulation “On Concentration of Property Management of the Armenian-Gregorian Church in Russia in the possession of government institutions”.
      According to it, all real estate (including profitable lands) and capital belonging to the Armenian church and religious institutions were transferred to the State.
      It was impossible to call confiscation in the full sense of the word, since a share was allocated from the proceeds from the sale of the confiscated property and money to their owner - Armenian religious institutions.
      1. Seal
        Seal 27 October 2017 16: 30 New
        0
        By the way, how do you explain the fact that the Gregorian church was the only denomination in the Russian Federation, which, by miracle (by hook or by crook), until 1903 managed to evade the requirements of the Catherine II Manifesto "On the Secularization of Monastery Lands".
        Let me remind you that the Manifesto on the Secularization of Monastery Lands is a key document of the reform of 1764, the purpose of which was to secularize the monastery lands in favor of the state. Signed by Empress Catherine the Second on February 26 (March 8), 1764. Published February 29 (March 11), 1764.
        The manifesto announced the seizure of land and serfs from monastic property and their transfer to the state treasury. From now on, the College of Savings began to manage the former property of the Synod, bishops' departments and monasteries, which until then had owned over 900 thousand peasant souls of males and 8,5 million acres of land. Only small gardens, kitchen gardens and pastures were left to the monasteries. Former monastery peasants were declared "economic" and overlaid, from which the College of Saving allocated a certain amount for the maintenance of monasteries, bishops' houses and theological educational institutions. The amount was determined by the so-called "staff" of the monastery.
        About a third of the monasteries were divided into "states" - the first, second and third, according to which the monastery transferred specific amounts of money; some monasteries were declared “non-staff” and were not funded. The rest — about two-thirds of the monasteries that existed at that time — were abolished, and the monks in them were transferred to the next “regular” monasteries.
        Everyone in the Russian Empire performed the manifesto, but your ancestors, having passed into our citizenship, for some reason decided that it was them that the Manifesto on the secularization of monastic lands did not concern. So, our State had to bring its citizens of Armenian nationality to life by issuing a Regulation “On Concentration of Property Management of the Armenian-Gregorian Church in Russia in the Ownership of Government Agencies” specially for them. It may be even a bit tougher than the requirements of the Manifesto on secularization, but you have diligently avoided fulfilling the requirements of the Manifesto for more than 70 years !!!
        1. Karen
          Karen 27 October 2017 17: 59 New
          +1
          The explanation is very simple ... You were not at all interested in how much money the Armenians gave to the Russian emperors? You can just google about gifts ... But there was a gold cash ...
  4. XII Legion
    XII Legion 22 October 2017 09: 09 New
    19
    After the Russian troops liberated Erivani from the Persians, the Armenians of the whole world praised Russia. “Armenia has risen thanks to the Russians”

    It's right
    Important article
    But I would like to note that following the results of the 1828 war, the Ganzhinsky and Erivan khanates went to Russia, that is, the empire liberated the Persian Armenians.
    In single-faith Russia, the Armenians felt free — they could freely move up the ranks and flourished economically.
    But part of the Armenian people remained under even more difficult than Persian, oppression - Turkish. 7 Armenian provinces (vilayets) remained in Turkey: Erzerum, Van, Diarbekir, Bitlis, Mamuret, Sivas and Harput with a population of 1 million 651 thousand people, while Russian Armenia had 1 million 980 thousand inhabitants.
    Sultan Abdul Hamid, pledged after the defeat in the Russian-Turkish war of 1877 - 1878. to carry out a number of measures in Turkish Armenia that alleviate the situation of the local population, refused to fulfill these obligations.
    The regime of Abdul Hamid atrocities in Bulgaria, organized the massacre of the Greeks in Constantinople, but the most serious crime of the Turks was the genocide of the Armenian people, now organized by the Young Turkish government during the First World War.
    Losing operations on the Caucasian front, the Turks decided to recoup on their Christian subjects, destroying (according to various estimates) from 800 thousand to 1 million Armenians. Both women and children were destroyed - on a national religious basis.
    When in April 1915, the Turks began the mass genocide of the Armenian people, by the personal order of the emperor, the Russian troops took a number of measures - the borders were opened, refugees were provided, the Van offensive operation began and 1 thousand people were saved from 651 million 375 thousand Turkish Armenians or 23% of the population of Turkish Armenia.
    Unfortunately, due to the curtailment of Russia's participation in WWI, Greater Armenia (after the capture of the Turkish Straits is another important goal of participation in the war) could not be created, although all the prerequisites were and the Caucasian army managed to recapture a significant part of the necessary territories, having advanced 200-250 km to the territory of Turkey.
    As a result, part of the Armenian lands is still located in Turkey
    1. andrewkor
      andrewkor 22 October 2017 09: 27 New
      +5
      Independent Armenia's Dashnak lost vast territories, including Ararat, as a result of the wars with Turkey in 1918,1920, neglecting all the achievements of the Russian Imperial Army on the Caucasian Front of WWI!
      1. garnik
        garnik 22 October 2017 12: 01 New
        +3
        And you do not want to compare the number of troops on each side. And in the 1920s, already by military operations, the Bolsheviks and Turks divided Armenia. I want to note that the former warrant officers and officers of the Republic of Ingushetia fought on the side of the Armenians.
        1. serge siberian
          serge siberian 22 October 2017 18: 24 New
          +1
          Ensign officer of the Russian Imperial Army.
          for reference, they could be company commanders. repeat hi
          1. garnik
            garnik 22 October 2017 19: 11 New
            +1
            They were the commanders of various units.
            Quote: Serge Siberian
            Ensign officer of the Russian Imperial Army.
            for reference, they could be company commanders. repeat hi
    2. Bakht
      Bakht 22 October 2017 23: 58 New
      0
      The Ottoman decision on deportations has long been criticized. And I must say that those who raised a cry against the Ottomans ignored historical facts and were guided by nationalist motives, yet there are real grounds for criticizing deportations. The Ottoman government failed to protect its Armenian citizens, who had the right to security, and in this regard did not justify itself. However, the fact that thousands of Turks and other Muslims were held accountable and convicted of crimes against Armenians shows that the Ottomans, at least, tried to resort to the law in order to protect the Armenian population.
      The other side of the issue is rarely addressed. The Armenian revolutionary groups, such as the Dashnaks, who even today claim to be genuine representatives of the Armenian people, were, without a doubt, the organizers of the mass destruction of the Turks and Kurds of Eastern Anatolia. They forced Muslims to resettle just like the Ottomans - Armenians. But, unlike the Turks, the Armenians did not show any concern in relation to their opponents. In any case, there are no data on this subject. None of the Armenians was held accountable by the Armenian government for the attacks on Muslims. Their track record in this regard is more scarce than that of the Ottomans. However, this fact is rarely mentioned and taken into account.
      1. Karen
        Karen 23 October 2017 00: 15 New
        +2
        We could not then respond adequately ...
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 23 October 2017 00: 40 New
          +1
          It is difficult to calculate the number of Muslims and Armenians of Eastern Anatolia who died in the First World War and Turkish-Armenian clashes. We have statistics on the periods before and after these wars. However, so many refugees have not returned to their homes, that the death toll in Eastern Anatolia cannot be accurately calculated. At the same time, we have figures on the number of victims in Anatolia as a whole, based on a thorough study of the census results (as opposed to simple assumptions that are usually published). Almost 600 Armenians and more than 000 million Muslims died. In some provinces of the war zone, more than half the population, both Muslims and Armenians, died. It is impossible to establish the death rate among Armenians by province, but, for example, in the province of Van by the end of the war the number of Muslims decreased by more than 60 percent. A similar indicator, of course, applies to the Armenians.
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 23 October 2017 00: 43 New
            0
            Towards the end of the war, East Anatolia was a devastated land. Armenians went to Syria and Transcaucasia. The Turks won, but the victory was bitter. Much was destroyed in Eastern Anatolia during the war, even more during the Armenian retreat. Hundreds of thousands of Muslim refugees, returning to their homes, found their villages and homes destroyed. Crops and trees were burned to the ground, and returning villagers had too few seeds and livestock to revive agriculture. The cities of Eastern Anatolia were largely destroyed. In Van and Bitlis, for example, the Armenians destroyed, with a few exceptions, almost all Muslim houses, public and Muslim religious buildings. In these cities, no more than 10 percent of the population remains. Along the line of the Armenian retreat from Erzurum to Transcaucasia, two-thirds of the buildings were wiped off the face of the earth. In many areas, almost nothing has survived. The winners were left with little more than the losers, who, in the end, received even more, since the Armenians received assistance from America and Europe for many millions of dollars. The Turks did not do anything.
            1. Karen
              Karen 23 October 2017 01: 22 New
              +1
              Bakhtiyar, from everything that comes across it is not necessary to make a source of information ...
              There is a book entitled “Four Years Under the Crescent” - I highly recommend ... He led the artillery destruction of Van, house after house ... managed 75% ... gave one example: the Armenians fired from their old church, and the Turks destroyed the church ... then the Armenians began to shoot from the ancient mosque ... seeing that the gunners did not want to shoot at the mosque, this mercenary with the words "in war as in war" ordered the suppression of the enemy firing point ... So two ancient religious buildings were destroyed in one day.
              1. Bakht
                Bakht 23 October 2017 09: 47 New
                +1
                So do not make any periodical a source of information. Read serious research.
                Then you will know at least something about the history of the region. Although to whom am I saying this? When Turkey proposed the creation of a competent commission to study the issue of genocide (with the participation of well-known famous Orientalists), it was Armenia that refused. Germans, Americans were all in favor. But Armenia’s position is “Genocide issue is NOT HISTORICAL the question is political
                So any of your statements on this subject are just propaganda. This is the official position of Yerevan. Armenia is not interested in historical truth.
                1. Karen
                  Karen 23 October 2017 11: 45 New
                  +1
                  That book was written by a direct participant in those events ... Who writes truthfully, he or the nerds with glasses?
                  What other debate of historians is needed if there is a mass of evidence from foreign ambassadors and organizations? I’m not talking about the testimonies of survivors in hell ...
                  1. Bakht
                    Bakht 23 October 2017 11: 51 New
                    +1
                    The historian who reads documents in archives will truly write. There is a common expression "lying like an eyewitness"
                    Did you know that almost a thousand convictions have been passed in Turkey against persons who have committed crimes against Armenians? Until the shootings. Or is it not written in Armenian textbooks? That is why the Armenians do not want any historical research. Myths are more important than truth.
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 23 October 2017 13: 39 New
                      0
                      I read ... there is such ... But I read and how these punishments were derailed.
                    2. genisis
                      genisis 24 October 2017 11: 55 New
                      0
                      Did you know that almost a thousand convictions have been passed in Turkey against persons who have committed crimes against Armenians? Until the shootings.

                      And, probably, all are executed?
                      Talaat, Enver, Jemal? There were also sentences against them. Only the Armenians killed them, and not Turkish justice.
              2. Bakht
                Bakht 23 October 2017 10: 15 New
                0
                In vain do you remember about Van. Oh, in vain ...
                During the battle for the city and immediately after its capture by the Armenians, all Muslims who failed to escape from Van were killed. The same fate befell the Muslim inhabitants of the surrounding villages, which came under the control of the Armenians. Muslims from
                villages located north of Van were driven into the village of Zeve, where all of them (about 3000 people), with few exceptions, were exterminated. Similar atrocities occurred throughout the area. In Van itself, all Muslim quarters were destroyed. Practically in the city there was not a single living Muslim. Refugees on the roads were ambushed by Armenian partisans, who destroyed many people.
                1. Karen
                  Karen 23 October 2017 11: 49 New
                  0
                  This is when, when the fury of vengeance spoke? Who in the world would not answer in the same way?
                  1. Bakht
                    Bakht 23 October 2017 12: 03 New
                    0
                    You boast knowledge of history ...
                    When did the Van revolt begin? And when did the Turks begin to recapture the city? What is this revenge? You should at least read Wiki to clarify the chronology ...
                    About your Kurdish allies. From the same wiki
                    The growing political activity of the Armenian community caused brutal repression of the government of the Ottoman Empire - the bloody massacre carried out mainly by the Kurdish armed groups Hamid on the orders of Sultan Abdul-Hamid.
                    -----
                    On July 24, 1897, a group of well-armed Dashnaks crossed the Persian-Turkish border and, in the town of Hanasor near the city of Van, attacked a Kurdish tribe camp, which, according to ARF, a year ago participated in the massacres of Armenians. As a result, the Kurdish tribe was defeated, almost all adult men were killed
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 23 October 2017 14: 09 New
                      0
                      Do not boast of reprinting these lines
                      There was a fierce battle with the Kurds ... Basically, ours tried to exterminate their beih instigators, who were always with a lot of security ... As they sometimes managed to hide during battles in their estates, there is an assumption that there is a veil in the veil.
                      By the date of the "uprising" in Van ... In that book, the author speaks about April 4 ... And we must believe that the Turkish government managed to plan such a large-scale action of its structures on the ground in 20 days? Is it not more correct to suppose that after the German prompt in Bucharest (and the document is available) on the resettlement of Armenians for work on the Berlin-Baghdad railway, the young Turks realized that it was possible to arrange a massacre? And there was time for preparation, dismissal of officials who disagree with these plans, to release criminals from prisons, to arm them, and all Kurds who are "sympathetic" to this idea too.
                      Moreover, some government decrees surfaced ...
                  2. Bakht
                    Bakht 23 October 2017 12: 06 New
                    0
                    Van's horrors recurred in Bitlis and other cities as the Russians and Armenians advanced deep into Turkish territory. For Muslims - men, women, children - a real hunt unfolded, they were killed right on the streets. Villagers fleeing the advancing armies of interventionists were exterminated on the roads by Armenian partisan units. After the Turks returned Bitlis, the Ottoman investigation team, having interviewed the surviving refugees and examined the ruins, reported the results of the investigation. Fourteen mosques, including the central Great Mosque, and other religious buildings were wiped off the face of the earth. One mosque survived only because it was turned into a stable. The main commercial and military depots, all government buildings, as well as most Muslim houses, were destroyed. The city lay in ruins.
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 23 October 2017 14: 13 New
                      0
                      The fury of vengeance ...
                      The Russian troops left Van several times ... what was going on there these days?
                  3. co-creator
                    co-creator 26 October 2017 02: 18 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Karen
                    This is when, when the fury of vengeance spoke? Who in the world would not answer in the same way?

                    The Russians didn’t answer that way to the Germans, for example.
                    Although you just admitted that the Armenians committed genocide against Muslims. It turns out there is no moral right to blame the Turks for genocide until you yourself recognize the genocide of Muslims that the Armenians committed.
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 26 October 2017 17: 52 New
                      0
                      Quotation: blooded man
                      Quote: Karen
                      This is when, when the fury of vengeance spoke? Who in the world would not answer in the same way?

                      The Russians didn’t answer that way to the Germans, for example.
                      Although you just admitted that the Armenians committed genocide against Muslims. It turns out there is no moral right to blame the Turks for genocide until you yourself recognize the genocide of Muslims that the Armenians committed.

                      We will discuss it in a slightly different example.
                      Somewhere in the late 80s, a bloody thing happened in the Kaz.SSR ... Kazakhs slaughtered everyone they found in the Chechens' house ... The son of this family who returned home, saw a terrible picture, picked up a knife and a gas canister ... cut out 10-15 pieces from monsters, until he was twisted by cops ...
                      The judge conducting this case told us that Chechen elders came to him with the words: "this guy should not be in any situation ... Name the amount, we will collect it throughout Chechnya ... Our son will not sit !!! "
                      Is the arithmetic of counting lives / kills appropriate here? I'm sure no !!!
                      1. co-creator
                        co-creator 26 October 2017 18: 04 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Karen
                        Is the arithmetic of counting lives / kills appropriate here? I'm sure no !!!

                        Of course it is appropriate. I will explain once you are a savage and do not understand basic things. Kazakhs came and killed everyone who was there - children, women, men, old people. Then a Chechen came and instead of specifically killing those who killed, he came and killed all children, women, old people in a row. So how is the second different from the first? Not at all. They are all killers of innocent people.
                        Well, the relatives who protect the infanticide in my deep conviction should be isolated from society, and best of all destroyed.
                      2. Karen
                        Karen 26 October 2017 18: 34 New
                        +1
                        I emphasized: _from monsters.
                        The kid killed from Kodla murderers and loafers who joined them, standing there.
              3. mar4047083
                mar4047083 23 October 2017 13: 48 New
                +1
                An ingenious tactical move, to capture a civilian building and shoot enemies from there, if they answer, then the enemies of the scum and villains destroyed the ancient shrines. In general, such tactics in the civilized world are condemned. You, this is a matter of pride. It was necessary to build a human shield from civilians, or to capture a hospital, it helped some (though not for long).
                1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Seal
      Seal 26 October 2017 18: 59 New
      0
      But part of the Armenian people remained under even more difficult than Persian, oppression - Turkish.

      Oh, how "heavy" was oppressed !!!
      We look at the "Genocide.ru" site a series of "Collection of photos of the Armenian Genocide." There is a photo section "Hamid pogroms 1894-1896." and the photo section “The General Collection of Adan Pogroms 1909”.
      Then there is a photo section of the period 1909-1913. .
      But in the photographs presented there, the period of 1909-1913. we see life-happy photos of Armenians living, I remind you, in Turkey.
      What does it mean? When did you still begin the "genocide"? If it begins with the “Hamid pogroms 1894-1896”, then why the period 1909-1913 even in the Museum of “Genocide” is called the period: “Armenia on the eve of the“ genocide ”.
      And further. If the so-called “genocide”, in your opinion, started back in 1894, how did it happen that by 1912 the Armenian community concentrated 60% of import and 40% of export trade, as well as 80% of Turkey’s domestic trade? Excuse me, was it all due to the "genocide" or in spite of the "genocide"? If thanks - then it’s logical. But if in spite of it, then the question naturally arises, what percentage of Turkey’s domestic trade would be concentrated in the hands of the Armenian community if the “genocide” in the form of “Hamid Pogroms 1894-1896.” and "Adan pogroms of 1909" was not? 90%? 100 % ? 120%
      How did it happen that after all the genocides (1894-1896 and 1909), it was the Armenians in 1912 who quickly and most of all voluntarily raised money to support the Turkish army in the Balkan war, and even sent them to serve in the Turkish army 8 thousands of people. (For reference. The group of A. Ozonyan, who fought on the side of the Bulgarians in 1912, hardly numbered 300 people).
      The periodicals presented in the museum of genocide are somehow antilogical. It turns out like this: “Friendship, friendship, friendship is the“ genocide ”of the Abdul-Hamid II period — friendship, friendship, chewing gum — the genocide of 1909, friendship, friendship, and even increasing the political weight of your ethnic group by concentrating 80% of Turkey’s domestic trade - and again "genocide."
      It seems that you do not understand that genocide (in the normal sense of this expression) is like pregnancy. She is either there or not. You can not be half pregnant. Also genocide. If it began, then it means that it must either continue to the end, or it must end. And you have something like this: started - ended; started again - ended again; started again ...
      By the way, there is such a thing as a false pregnancy. That is, when a woman thinks that she is pregnant by some external signs. But actually - no. In fact, it just puffs. It seems that you have exactly this option.
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 22 October 2017 09: 17 New
    +6
    And also Vilnius and Klaipeda Lithuania. Peter the Great returned Finland to Sweden, and Lenin gave independence. For a lot of things, Russia did historically for the kindness of its suburbs, they don’t appreciate it, but in vain, then it comes back to life!
  6. Karen
    Karen 22 October 2017 10: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: andrewkor
    Independent Armenia's Dashnak lost vast territories, including Ararat, as a result of the wars with Turkey in 1918,1920, neglecting all the achievements of the Russian Imperial Army on the Caucasian Front of WWI!

    Tired of repeating already ... The Dashnaks Party was created by local Zionists to control and manage our actions. Dashnaks and Bolsheviks are two boots of steam. It is no accident that the Bolshevik A. Myasnikyan and the Dashnak S. Vratsyan came out of the same Rostov orphanage.
    By the way, Ararat was presented to the Turks by Ganevsky.
    On terrorist acts around the world ... Have you ever thought that ASALA was generated by the KGB of the USSR? Here the biologist of the Dashnaks claims this (although the terrorists themselves call it the slander of competitors).
    On the explosion in the Moscow metro ... we condemn, essno ... the record of Zatikyan’s last word in court is worth a look.
    On the murder of Blokhatin, I think he deserved it ... As probably his boss Safronov would have deserved it.
    I did not even hear about the alleged train explosions in Russia.
    1. serge siberian
      serge siberian 22 October 2017 18: 29 New
      +3
      It’s ridiculous to think about the founding of ASALA of the KGB of the USSR, but it’s insulting to read about the USSR, not like the KGB.
    2. Krasnodar
      Krasnodar 22 October 2017 22: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Karen
      Quote: andrewkor
      Independent Armenia's Dashnak lost vast territories, including Ararat, as a result of the wars with Turkey in 1918,1920, neglecting all the achievements of the Russian Imperial Army on the Caucasian Front of WWI!

      Tired of repeating already ... The Dashnaks Party was created by local Zionists to control and manage our actions. Dashnaks and Bolsheviks are two boots of steam. It is no accident that the Bolshevik A. Myasnikyan and the Dashnak S. Vratsyan came out of the same Rostov orphanage.
      By the way, Ararat was presented to the Turks by Ganevsky.
      On terrorist acts around the world ... Have you ever thought that ASALA was generated by the KGB of the USSR? Here the biologist of the Dashnaks claims this (although the terrorists themselves call it the slander of competitors).
      On the explosion in the Moscow metro ... we condemn, essno ... the record of Zatikyan’s last word in court is worth a look.
      On the murder of Blokhatin, I think he deserved it ... As probably his boss Safronov would have deserved it.
      I did not even hear about the alleged train explosions in Russia.

      Armenian Zionists ... I have not heard such nonsense)))
      In Armenia, except for Soviet and modern times, there were practically no Jews. And now there are not many of them, mainly Ashkenazi.
      1. Karen
        Karen 23 October 2017 00: 20 New
        +2
        I even knew who the representative of Jerusalem was (I forgot the title, however) ... It seems that the name was Emma Saakovna ... she was very much appreciated by us.
    3. Bakht
      Bakht 23 October 2017 12: 13 New
      +2
      This is the whole Armenian logic. Justification of the attacks. I say - sheer terrorists. About what we didn’t hear, it’s not written about this in the Armenian propaganda
      In May 1994, employees of the FGC of the Russian Federation in Moscow detained a group of organizers of the attacks. To the surprise of the Chekists, all the detainees turned out to be security officers. The group was headed by Lt. Col. Jahan Hovhannisyan, head of the intelligence and sabotage operations department on the territory of the enemy of the State Directorate of National Security (GUNB) of Armenia. The second was his subordinate, Colonel Ashot Galoyan. The third detainee, Major Boris Simonyan, worked in the anti-terrorism department of the FGC of Russia. All three were charged with terrorism, smuggling and illegal possession of weapons and explosives.
      The chief military prosecutor’s office of the Russian Federation, investigating the case, managed to gather evidence of their involvement in the explosion of a train in Azerbaijan and two attempted explosions, one of which was committed in Russia. On the instructions of the terrorists, a train was mined in Derbent, and only thanks to the performer’s mistake the explosive device did not work and was neutralized in Mineralnye Vody.
      1. mar4047083
        mar4047083 23 October 2017 13: 54 New
        0
        It is not they. These are Lezgi terrorists. In fact, they detained peaceful shawarma merchants, and then under torture, they slandered themselves. "Though you spit in your eyes, everything will be God's dew."
      2. Karen
        Karen 23 October 2017 14: 24 New
        0
        Although our pro-Zionist elite has gouged the KGB, there are still many specialists left who could calmly do all this without leaving their traces. It's so easy ...
      3. Karen
        Karen 23 October 2017 15: 44 New
        0
        I remembered that case ...
        Yesterday’s TV, an interview with former SNB chief David Shahnazaryan (matchmaker of the then president) helped ... Ardent Russophobia so far ... He could have done it on purpose to catch them - to aggravate relations between Russia and Armenia ...
        1. A.V.S.
          A.V.S. 23 October 2017 19: 27 New
          +1
          By the way, an interesting case occurred in Gyumri in 1992; for some reason, this event is hushed up in eReF.
          July 10, 1992 in the center of Gyumri, an ambulance shot by the Armenians of a car of Russian paratroopers ZU-2-23.
          Lieutenant Alexander Shapovalov, sergeants Yevgeny Poddubnyak, Oleg Yudintsev, privates Mikhail Karpov, Nikolai Maslennikov, who refused to surrender their standard weapons, were killed. Someone Vardanyan commanded the terrorists. At the same time, Deputy Minister of Defense Abrahamyan was present.
          1. Karen
            Karen 23 October 2017 20: 19 New
            0
            I already gave a detailed answer on this incident.
          2. mar4047083
            mar4047083 23 October 2017 23: 09 New
            +4
            They are not to blame. The paratroopers themselves shot themselves (careless handling of weapons). "Karen" explained everything. And then, why pity them. These are the paratroopers "invaders." We don’t have to feel sorry for us. We should only give money to monuments to the Nazis and be silent, and “Karen” will be available to us to explain everything about the Jews.
            1. genisis
              genisis 24 October 2017 11: 59 New
              0
              We should only give money to monuments to the Nazis and be silent

              You don’t owe anything to anyone.
              Nobody owes you either.
              Everyone in the world, including you, no matter who you belong to, do only what is beneficial to them.
              Therefore, the swan song of altruism can not sing.
              Life is more prosaic.
              The paratroopers were killed in Gyumri. In addition to the Armenians, Russian officers are also to blame for this. I didn’t read something, so that one of them would be punished. I have not heard that any of those who took part in Operation Ring were punished.
              It's just convenient for you to blame others for the crimes.
              Do your sins not bother you?
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 26 October 2017 02: 41 New
                +2
                Quote: genisis
                The paratroopers were killed in Gyumri. In addition to the Armenians, Russian officers are also to blame for this.

                this is the whole Armenian essence ...
                the Armenian girl will be raped by the Russian girl and the whole Armenian Kodla (not relatives, but simply other Armenians) begins to defend this bastard, they say she is a prostitute herself and is to blame for everything.
                Drove-an Armenian overloaded KAMAZ and, breaking traffic rules, drove into a bus, killing more than a dozen Muscovites. Well, what about the Armenians? And they, by teleconference, instead of conviction, make claims that this ur..od was dragged to the court in what he was in his underpants. You see, you insulted all Armenians, and in general he is not to blame, he led KAMAZ away from the stop, saving people like that.
                And well, close relatives and friends would say that, since there are no such scumbags defended by completely foreign Armenians because for the Armenians other nations are dust and nothing.
                1. genisis
                  genisis 27 October 2017 12: 13 New
                  0
                  this is the whole Armenian essence ...
                  the Armenian girl will be raped by the Russian girl and the whole Armenian Kodla (not relatives, but simply other Armenians) begins to defend this bastard, they say she is a prostitute herself and is to blame for everything.
                  Drove-an Armenian overloaded KAMAZ and, breaking traffic rules, drove into a bus, killing more than a dozen Muscovites. Well, what about the Armenians? And they, by teleconference, instead of conviction, make claims that this ur..od was dragged to the court in what he was in his underpants. You see, you insulted all Armenians, and in general he is not to blame, he led KAMAZ away from the stop, saving people like that.

                  About a girl - far-fetched.
                  Pro overloaded KAMAZ.
                  What makes you think that someone believes that he is not to blame ???
                  I really don’t understand why he had to be taken to court in a dressing gown. Was he taken into custody without clothes ???
                  Once again, if you're in a tank, killing paratroopers is a crime. Perpetrators should have been held accountable.
                  1. co-creator
                    co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: genisis
                    About a girl - far-fetched.

                    These are real stories, many stories. Instead of rape, you can put - stole, beat, insulted, killed. The result in 90% is the same. 10% are Armenians who live among Russians and can be said to have torn themselves off from Armenian society.
                    Quote: genisis
                    What makes you think that someone believes that he is not to blame ???

                    I personally watched this teleconference. The Armenians all the time were looking for excuses for him, saying that he was taking the car away from the bus stop. Of course they scolded him, but as if he cut off his grandmother’s wallet, and didn’t kill people.
                    Quote: genisis
                    I really don’t understand why he had to be taken to court in a dressing gown. Was he taken into custody without clothes ???

                    No, it was Russian monsters who stripped him and dressed him in a dressing gown. Hand face.
                    Quote: genisis
                    Once again, if you're in a tank, killing paratroopers is a crime. Perpetrators should have been held accountable.

                    Uh, no, you said that the military themselves were also to blame.
                    What would an Armenian be put in Armenia for killing Russian soldiers? This is not even funny.
                    1. genisis
                      genisis 28 October 2017 11: 42 New
                      0
                      The Armenians all the time were looking for excuses for him, saying that he was taking the car away from the bus stop. Of course they scolded him, but as if he cut off his grandmother’s wallet, and didn’t kill people.

                      264. Part 3 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation The punishment will be appointed by a court verdict. Guilty will determine the same court. And here it is not a matter of nationality. The storyline of the article reads: "violation of the rules of the road, which entailed by negligence... "That is, there was no goal to crush people - this is a tragic accident. Fatal accidents occur in Russia every week. And? The last sensational case was the case of a“ drunk boy ”from Balashikha. Not a single Armenian surname, but an abomination is rare.
                      No, it was Russian monsters who stripped him and dressed him in a dressing gown. Hand face.

                      I already realized that you are an expert. Give a logical explanation why he was in a bathrobe? Was he in Kamaz right in this dressing gown and drove?
                      Uh, no, you said that the military themselves were also to blame.
                      What would an Armenian be put in Armenia for killing Russian soldiers? This is not even funny.

                      I remember exactly what I said. The military is to blame, but not the paratroopers, as you thought, but the commander of the unit from which the paratroopers took these shilka. Are you up to date with this story? Murder is always murder. The killing of Russian soldiers in Armenia is not often heard about. You write that this is a common thing, and even killers always go unpunished. So - this is nonsense.
                      1. co-creator
                        co-creator 28 October 2017 19: 43 New
                        +2
                        Quote: genisis
                        And here it is not a matter of nationality.

                        Why, then, did ALL ALL Armenians on a teleconference not condemn him PURE HUMANLY AND SEEKED HIM JUSTIFICATIONS?
                        Quote: genisis
                        Not a single Armenian surname, but an abomination rare.

                        true))) I did not understand all the Russians defended this woman and the pathologist? What are you talking about, my dear?
                        Quote: genisis
                        Give a logical explanation why he was in a bathrobe? Was he in Kamaz right in this dressing gown and drove?

                        I said it was the Russian monsters who decided to take revenge on the Armenian so and put him in a bathrobe. What do you not understand?
                        Quote: genisis
                        and the commander of the unit from which the paratroopers took these shilka.

                        what is the commander to blame. The points.
                        Quote: genisis
                        . The killing of Russian soldiers in Armenia is not often heard about. You write that this is a common thing, and even killers always go unpunished. So - this is nonsense.

                        So in Armenia 99,9% are Armenians. There are only 20 thousand Russians there. Well, they killed the Russian soldiers, is someone sitting? No . So here only you rave.

                        ps Your response will be moved down the comment column or mine to yours. I will answer you 100%
                      2. genisis
                        genisis 28 October 2017 22: 49 New
                        0
                        Why, then, did ALL ALL Armenians on a teleconference not condemn him PURE HUMANLY AND SEEKED HIM JUSTIFICATIONS?

                        Once again I repeat - the court condemns. No one was looking for excuses; it was clear that a criminal case had been instituted under Art. 264 part 3
                        Countrymen tried to mitigate this tragedy. Someone might be trying to find excuses. But there is basically nothing to discuss here - criminal liability entails punishment. I don’t know if you, God forbid, have been in a similar situation, but believe me, the most important condemnation is that this person will reproach himself for that unfortunate flight until the end of his life. And the people who died will not be returned. And this will be his share even after he gets out of prison. Therefore, do not rush to condemn.
                        I did not understand all the Russians defended this woman and the pathologist?

                        No. Not everyone defended. But not all Armenians defended Harutyunyan either. I personally did not defend. It was just humanly painful for him and for those who suffered in this accident. In the case of the boy, a woman with a non-Armenian surname, her husband, also with a non-Armenian surname, and a forensic expert, were also not Armenian doing an abominable thing, trying to present the boy drunk. It's disgusting. But this does not mean that all their countrymen are the same. People are different.
                        I said it was the Russian monsters who decided to take revenge on the Armenian so and put him in a bathrobe. What do you not understand?

                        First, let's agree that we do not "poke" each other, otherwise the conversation will not work. Secondly, it is not about the monsters, especially not their nationality, but that the man, heartbroken, looked extremely ridiculous in a woman’s dressing gown. I still can not understand why he was in this dress. Who put it on her?
                        what is the commander to blame. The points.

                        Captain Klimko recalls: “... I, Krotko, Mikael and two other people sat in the Zhiguli. I was surprised that we were all quietly allowed into the division and the headquarters. Mikael greeted the hand with the operational duty and staff duty officer. On the second floor, I jokingly asked Mikael if he had found an office here. He answered me that not yet. Colonel Babkin greeted the officers with the hand, but didn’t even give us a hand. Mikael informed Babkin that they had arrested the convoy, and inquired whether this convoy belonged to the equipment of the Leninakan division. Babkin answered in the affirmative. Vardanyan called to Yerevan, after which he informed us that in an hour and a half, the representative of the Armenian Ministry of Defense would arrive. We returned to the headquarters of the Fidaines. Soon, vodka and bread appeared on the table. Vardanyan invited officers and warrant officers to the table.
                        It sold just the chief of staff of 127 divisions, Colonel Babkin. Just sold out. That's all his fault.
                        So in Armenia 99,9% are Armenians. There are only 20 thousand Russians there. Well, they killed the Russian soldiers, is someone sitting? No . So here only you rave.

                        Armenia always respects military uniforms only if it is not Turkish / Azerbaijani. No one answered for the murder of Shapovalov and his guys. And this is bad, first of all, for the Armenians themselves. Impunity crimes give rise to impunity and lawlessness.
                        Therefore, this is really a black episode. The guys from the 102nd base and the guys from the FSB "Armenia" border guards serving in Gyumri today can tell how to serve them on Armenian soil. They have their own VKontakte groups. If interested, you can chat.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. captain
    captain 22 October 2017 14: 18 New
    +2
    And how much Russian blood was spilled for the interests of others ... And now, the Russians are to blame for everything.
    1. garnik
      garnik 22 October 2017 15: 07 New
      +3
      This idea also occurs to me, to the account of blood spilled in vain, sorry. But without the interests of Russia, not a single RI soldier would budge.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 26 October 2017 02: 44 New
        +2
        Yerivan as part of Russia and the settlement of these lands by Armenians are the interests of the elite, not Russia. One of the biggest mistakes of RI.
        1. Karen
          Karen 26 October 2017 19: 33 New
          +2
          Maybe tell me about yourself, in terms of profession, so that I realize where you get these ratings?
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 39 New
            +1
            Quote: Karen
            Maybe tell me about yourself, in terms of profession, so that I realize where you get these ratings?

            Russian, I work, I love history and geopolitics.
            The assessment is simple. Yerivan as part of Persia would be much more profitable for the Republic of Ingushetia and would make Persia allies in any Russian-Turkish wars. Plus, of course, there are no costs for Armenians in Russian politics and Russia itself.
            1. Karen
              Karen 28 October 2017 08: 42 New
              +1
              What fairy tale have you fallen from, Ivanushka? Did you roast the stove?
              Read better thoughts Durnovo. This is sobering you instantly ... After all, the enemy is not asleep :))))
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 28 October 2017 19: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Karen
                What fairy tale have you fallen from, Ivanushka? Did you roast the stove?
                Read better thoughts Durnovo. This is sobering you instantly ... After all, the enemy is not asleep :))))

                Is it GOD geopolitical? Again, you have ambition rushing forward thoughts. Remember Durnavo is just one of dozens of people who tried to determine Russia's geopolitical interests.
                The fact that you are teaching Karenchik here Russians how to live and behind the back of the Russian army threatening war with neighbors directly indicates how Durnavo was wrong.
                And of course, Durnavo never lived in Armenia for a long time and could not judge objectively. Do you quote what Russian officers who served in the Caucasus wrote about you?
                1. Karen
                  Karen 28 October 2017 21: 46 New
                  0
                  Quotation: blooded man
                  Quote: Karen
                  What fairy tale have you fallen from, Ivanushka? Did you roast the stove?
                  Read better thoughts Durnovo. This is sobering you instantly ... After all, the enemy is not asleep :))))

                  Is it GOD geopolitical? Again, you have ambition rushing forward thoughts. Remember Durnavo is just one of dozens of people who tried to determine Russia's geopolitical interests.
                  The fact that you are teaching Karenchik here Russians how to live and behind the back of the Russian army threatening war with neighbors directly indicates how Durnavo was wrong.
                  And of course, Durnavo never lived in Armenia for a long time and could not judge objectively. Do you quote what Russian officers who served in the Caucasus wrote about you?

                  Cite Ermolov about Madatov? Or other quotes about Lazarev and others ...
                  And even then I can choose about the bad ones with those of your officers with whom I have been in contact ...
                  I say, everything happens ...
                  ___________
                  I’m calm about future wars ... All the well-known clairvoyants talk about it. :)))
                  _______
                  The rains started ... I didn’t have time to drive the peach for friends ... I hope at least nature will give a chance ...
                  Well, come on ... Read books and throw Bolshevism out of your head ... soon they will hang his followers for all the evil that they brought ...
      2. Seal
        Seal 27 October 2017 18: 20 New
        0
        But without the interests of Russia, not a single RI soldier would budge.

        No. And history has many examples.
        Peter the Great sent troops to Europe to help his friend Augustus II the Strong Saxon, not really bothering with the interests of the state. Let us recall the battle of Fraustadt on February 13, 1706. ..... As a result of the flight of the Saxons, the Russian corps was surrounded. Colonel Goltz, having abandoned his soldiers, fled and surrendered to the Swedes, but the Russian corps continued to resist the enemy. Colonel Samuel Renzel assumed command. Some soldiers from the escaped Saxon regiments joined the Russians. Twice the Russians, under Renzel’s command, drove the Nerke-Vermland Regiment out of Nieder-Rorsdorf and retreated twice. By night, Colonel Renzel was able to break through the blockade and withdraw 1920 people from the encirclement.
        As Renzel reported: “the enemy with the fury struck our front. The Russians courageously accepted thereof. The Russian four regiments and the Grenadier battalion, which were in the front line, did not give up their places. Everything in that place was beaten, and a small number remained. The same remained in the back line. And gathered, they walked through the catwalk at the village of Nieder-Rorsdorf, firing off with waste. The great also happened from the cramped squad, the great cavalry of Sveisk and Infantry went to the front and from the wings and from the rear and with white weapons they started to attack our front ... They fought how wet. The Russians stood firm, few of them were not injured. "

        August II, with the Saxon corps, stood 15 miles from the battle, but instead of helping the army of Schulenburg, he retreated to Krakow. The chamberlain and chronicler of Charles XII, Gustav Adlerfeld, describing the Battle of Fraustadt, ironically notes that Augustus carried “from ten to twelve thousand people” on the day of this battle, but remained in the distance “only 15 miles from the battlefield”, all “hoping” "That will be able to surround the Swedes. But this did not succeed, and he with his twelve thousand unharmedly managed to rush off to Krakow, and without seeing the enemy in the eyes.
        In the battle of Fraustadt, an incomprehensible, truly bestial cruelty of the Swedes was revealed precisely with respect to the Russians. Indeed, in this combined army of the Saxon general Schulenburg, who suffered such a rout, there were Saxons, Poles, and even the French, who served in the Saxon army, and, finally, the Russians. After their victory (February 3, 1706), the Swedish army captured all those who were not killed and did not have time to escape. Everyone except the Russians! "Many Russians were beaten as well, and which of the soldiers were taken to full, and with those the enemy zealously acted mercilessly, according to the royal decree issued before about them, so as not to give them pardon (or mercy), and scolding people 2 and 3 one another stabbed them with spears and baguettes (bayonets. - E. T.). In such a barbaric way, the Swedes exterminated 4 thousand disarmed Russian prisoners after the battle (the Turks, by the way, did nothing of the kind. There were isolated excesses, but to so massively - never).

        Peter the Third sent our troops to defend their Holstein from Denmark. Was that in the interests of Russia?
        Is it in the interests of Russia that Paul the First sent A.V. Suvorov already in Italy ?? Yes, there our interests did not stand close !!!
        Is it in the interests of Russia that Alexander the First, having driven Napoleon out of our borders, popped up to “liberate Europe”? Kutuzov categorically did not advise him to finish Napoleon, for this was not in the interests of the Russian Empire.
        In Austria, in 1848, Nicholas I sent our troops to suppress the uprising of the Hungarians and Austrians against the Austrian emperor, which is, in the interests of Russia? Yes, it would be much more interesting to us if Austria would break up into a couple of independent states.
  10. Karen
    Karen 22 October 2017 16: 05 New
    +2
    By the way, many of the Russians probably do not know ...
    When the 11th army fought against the Turks against Armenia, many Russian soldiers refused to obey the orders of the Bolsheviks to exterminate our population ... For which they themselves were shot by the Reds ...
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 26 October 2017 02: 45 New
      +2
      keep these tales with you.
      1. Karen
        Karen 26 October 2017 22: 58 New
        0
        And what's stopping you from reading?
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 42 New
          0
          why should i read fairy tales? The Bolsheviks NEVER and exterminated anyone on a national basis. If you are against Bolshevism, then I'm sorry .. that means you're an enemy. Maybe some compassionate soldiers refused to shoot at enemies, but a miserable one.
          1. Karen
            Karen 28 October 2017 08: 49 New
            0
            Quotation: blooded man
            why should i read fairy tales? The Bolsheviks NEVER and exterminated anyone on a national basis. If you are against Bolshevism, then I'm sorry .. that means you're an enemy. Maybe some compassionate soldiers refused to shoot at enemies, but a miserable one.

            So you, I see, are a Bolshevik ... And you would know how the Bolsheviks exterminated precisely according to the national principle ... And they wrote to your Lenin that it is easiest for them to maintain their power - if they cut down the trees as religious wars ...
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 October 2017 19: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Karen
              Quotation: blooded man
              why should i read fairy tales? The Bolsheviks NEVER and exterminated anyone on a national basis. If you are against Bolshevism, then I'm sorry .. that means you're an enemy. Maybe some compassionate soldiers refused to shoot at enemies, but a miserable one.

              So you, I see, are a Bolshevik ... And you would know how the Bolsheviks exterminated precisely according to the national principle ... And they wrote to your Lenin that it is easiest for them to maintain their power - if they cut down the trees as religious wars ...

              Proofs.
              1. Karen
                Karen 28 October 2017 21: 28 New
                0
                Quotation: blooded man
                Quote: Karen
                Quotation: blooded man
                why should i read fairy tales? The Bolsheviks NEVER and exterminated anyone on a national basis. If you are against Bolshevism, then I'm sorry .. that means you're an enemy. Maybe some compassionate soldiers refused to shoot at enemies, but a miserable one.

                So you, I see, are a Bolshevik ... And you would know how the Bolsheviks exterminated precisely according to the national principle ... And they wrote to your Lenin that it is easiest for them to maintain their power - if they cut down the trees as religious wars ...

                Proofs.

                Will they arrange telegrams to Lenin from Baku? You will find in the library. I sent that book to Moscow a couple of years ago, I don’t know if I stayed where.
                About the shooting of their soldiers by the Bolsheviks, who refused to shoot at the people, is in the biography book Dashnaktsutyun, threw out with many books a year ago.
  11. groks
    groks 22 October 2017 17: 09 New
    +6
    Lord of the Armenians - you would be careful with anti-Sovietism. The damned Bolsheviks have built so much for you that they are specific, and not Russian at all (this goes without saying), you still bow and bow.
  12. Karen
    Karen 22 October 2017 17: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: groks
    Lord of the Armenians - you would be careful with anti-Sovietism. The damned Bolsheviks have built so much for you that they are specific, and not Russian at all (this goes without saying), you still bow and bow.

    Oleg, but this is already too much.
    Most importantly, do not mix the Bolsheviks and the Soviet (and here on the forum this division has long been accepted by many).
    From the Bolsheviks we choked so much ... like the Russians too.
    According to Soviet investments, we, in the common harness of the Union, did not fly away, and we did not owe anyone debt.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 18: 00 New
      12
      Quote: Karen
      For Soviet investments - we in the general team of the Union they didn’t take off, and nobody was indebted to anyone

      Hmm ...

      Right? wink
      1. Karen
        Karen 22 October 2017 18: 26 New
        +2
        Right !!!
        If we consumed more, then on our own, earned by ours on the virgin lands and where else.

        In Soviet statistics, a lot was not taken into account ... For example, I know for sure about one enterprise of union subordination with a debt of 30 million, full-fledged Soviet rubles, but to which back in February 88. it was planned to transfer 1 billion. full-fledged Soviet rubles, as performed a very important job.

        By the way, in 1990. - it was already after the Spitak earthquake, and they helped us ... they helped, but even Ryzhkov could not stop the robbery of foreign Armenian help to us ... when in Moscow they stole expensive medical equipment and loaded used containers into Yerevan containers ... Only when my sidekick was able to send a video of this substitution abroad and everything showed, a little of the stolen was given to us ... In the 90th or 91st, he could get a printout of unfinished medical equipment for a couple of bottles of cognac for Muscovites ... a lot ...
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 18: 32 New
          12
          Ek has bombed you ...
          Quote: Karen
          If we consumed more, then on our own, earned by ours on the virgin lands and elsewhere

          Nah ... the tablet shows which of the republics was a "donor", and who sat on grants.
          And only that. Everything else - words, words ...
          1. Karen
            Karen 22 October 2017 18: 38 New
            +1
            1990 this is after the earthquake - we were allocated an amount to eliminate the consequences ...
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 18: 44 New
              10
              Quote: Karen
              1990 this is after the earthquake - we were allocated an amount to eliminate the consequences ...

              Welcome ... but what do you say to that?
              1. Karen
                Karen 22 October 2017 19: 02 New
                +1
                This is "Soviet Russia" for 1992. ?
                She couldn’t print it like that when 23 fat divisions of the XNUMXrd Russian tank crew fought against us.
                ______
                By the way, about the communists. Somehow the chief accountant of one enterprise told me ... The secretary of the party committee requested a quarterly report from him ... but he just sent it - there is no place for the party in the defense industry.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 19: 07 New
                  12
                  Quote: Karen
                  This is "Soviet Russia" for 1992. ?
                  She couldn’t even print such a thing when 23 fatal divisions of XNUMX divisions fought against us for the fat Baku Russian tanks

                  Clear. I can dig deeper, but - lazily.
                  I’m not going to convince you of anything - they don’t pay me for it. But back in the early 80s, at a political school, the teacher told us about "donors" and "acceptors."
                  The Baltic states, Georgia, (sic!) Armenia - have always been "acceptors."
                  So - "no dirt":

                  Quote: Karen
                  we in the general harness of the Union didn’t take off, and we did not owe anybody debt

                  Well yes, of course (s) wink
        2. andrewkor
          andrewkor 23 October 2017 08: 29 New
          +2
          By the way, you remembered about Spitak. We were sent to Tashkent in one Armenian family, a classmate of my daughter, the girls from Spitak at that time literally speculate with the same humanitarian aid, they almost dragged the container. My friends got them out!
          1. Karen
            Karen 23 October 2017 09: 01 New
            0
            They also reminded me of the dirt of those days that had been forgotten for a long time ... A voluntary Russian assistant (it seems from Perm) printed how the Rostov crane operators came to him with knives and forced them to not work on the ruins for free ...
            I say ... everything happened
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 26 October 2017 02: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Karen
              how the Rostov crane operators rushed to him with knives and forced him not to work for a ruin more for free

              so your Armenians are, even at the misfortune of their fellow tribesmen, and then profited. Well, the Russian guy is just a naive young man. I hope he understood everything and screwed from there.
              1. Karen
                Karen 26 October 2017 15: 27 New
                0
                Should I have noted the Russian nationality of the Rostov crane operators there?
                1. co-creator
                  co-creator 26 October 2017 18: 07 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Karen
                  Should I have noted the Russian nationality of the Rostov crane operators there?

                  The fact is that these crane operators were Armenians from Rostov. Russians never carry knives, never. If they came to threaten, then they would take a mount, a stick, chains.
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 26 October 2017 18: 56 New
                    +1
                    You ask your law enforcement officers about the statistics of kitchen knives for other purposes ...
                    1. co-creator
                      co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 46 New
                      0
                      Quote: Karen
                      You ask your law enforcement officers about the statistics of kitchen knives for other purposes ...

                      Do you understand why a kitchen knife is called a kitchen knife? That's right, because it is stored in the kitchen and they are killed in 90% by drunk in the apartment.
                      If stabbed in a street fight or during a robbery, then in 90% of cases these are children of the Caucasus or Asia.
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 28 October 2017 08: 28 New
                        0
                        If builders live in trailers nearby, it is most convenient to grab a kitchen knife for a horror story after dark ... Permyak wrote, ask him ...
        3. co-creator
          co-creator 26 October 2017 02: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Karen
          Right !!!
          If we consumed more, then on our own, earned by ours on the virgin lands and where else.

          In Soviet statistics, a lot was not taken into account ... For example, I know for sure about one enterprise of union subordination with a debt of 30 million, full-fledged Soviet rubles, but to which back in February 88. it was planned to transfer 1 billion. full-fledged Soviet rubles, as performed a very important job.

          By the way, in 1990. - it was already after the Spitak earthquake, and they helped us ... they helped, but even Ryzhkov could not stop the robbery of foreign Armenian help to us ... when in Moscow they stole expensive medical equipment and loaded used containers into Yerevan containers ... Only when my sidekick was able to send a video of this substitution abroad and everything showed, a little of the stolen was given to us ... In the 90th or 91st, he could get a printout of unfinished medical equipment for a couple of bottles of cognac for Muscovites ... a lot ...

          As the tablet touched you)) it is unpleasant to realize that you were sitting on the neck of the whole country.
          1. Karen
            Karen 26 October 2017 21: 05 New
            0
            Here is one Armenian who sent 31000 pages of reports per year from the states ... Beria immediately wanted to use it as an expense, explaining that only so much with the help of the enemy can be set up ... The work of such Armenians is not taken into account in the table, and it’s also good. :)))
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 47 New
              0
              What? explain your idea?)
              1. Karen
                Karen 28 October 2017 08: 10 New
                0
                There’s simply nowhere to be clearer ... 31000 pages of reports to Moscow - all in a year - this is his method of organizing intelligence work. Is there any benefit for the USSR? In the statistics of the GDP of the Armenian SSR, their work is not highlighted, and the benefits of such Armenians for the USSR rolls over ...
      2. polpot
        polpot 22 October 2017 22: 14 New
        +2
        Credit thanks for the table is extremely clear
      3. genisis
        genisis 24 October 2017 18: 46 New
        0
        The poor, unhappy RSFSR and Belarus fed the remaining 13 republics together))))
        How navels didn’t tear?
        Interestingly, after 13 parasites fell off, how much is the GDP in Russia and Belarus per capita in thousands of dollars and how much is consumption?
        Considering that all these parasites no longer sit on the neck of the Russian Federation, the population of the Russian Federation should know laughing
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 26 October 2017 03: 10 New
          0
          Quote: genisis
          The poor, unhappy RSFSR and Belarus fed the remaining 13 republics together))))

          Do you even understand that this table is not per capita GDP of each individual republic? That is, $ 17,5 thousand multiplied by 150 million, and then the Belarusian GDP by 10 million. Do you feel the difference?
          She fed you all the dorogoids of the RSFSR, which was confirmed by 27 years. The only republic that lives on its own money roughly like the Russian Federation is Kazakhstan.


          Quote: genisis
          Interestingly, after 13 parasites fell off, how much is the GDP in Russia and Belarus per capita in thousands of dollars and how much is consumption?

          Have you been banned in Google?
          Quote: genisis
          Considering that all these parasites no longer sit on the neck of the Russian Federation, the population of the Russian Federation should know

          Compared to the RSFSR, we feast. What pension do you have, mister Armenian?
          1. genisis
            genisis 27 October 2017 12: 50 New
            0
            If you ceased to be an iksperd, and you took and counted using the 1989 census, you could see that according to this plate:
            The total GDP of the USSR is $ 4 192,4 billion.
            Total consumption is $ 4 billion
            That is, based on the data on this plate in the USSR they consumed more than they produced by $ 18,8 billion in 1989.
            Judging by approximately the same figures from this miracle table, we conclude that since 1985, the USSR consumed more each year than it produced by $ 18,8 billion.
            It is interesting how the iskder, who made up this miracle tablet and such a star, how can you explain how this deficit was covered during all this time ???
            Also, by the way, US GDP as of 1989 was $ 5 billion
            According to this magical, “racially clean” tablet, it turns out that the USSR’s GDP in 1989 was 75% of US GDP.
            If you like to believe in these nonsense, then this perfectly characterizes your level of perception of reality.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 57 New
              0
              What bothers you? The late USSR took loans from the West. Mama Do not Cry.

              And why the USSR GDP could not be 76% of the state? For example, in 2013, the RF PPP GDP was higher than in Germany, this is the IMF statistics.

              Of course I believe in these "nonsense", because after the collapse of the USSR, you breadwinners suddenly became beggars and will remain in this state. Two countries that live on their own money, like the USSR, are Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. Even Belarusians live on the money of the Russian Federation. The Baltic states can not be considered, it is on the content of the EU.
              You probably have the opposite in your reality, Russia is poor and you are second to France.
              1. Karen
                Karen 28 October 2017 09: 48 New
                0
                Yes, I remember how the budget of the Russian Federation was just like that ~ $ 20 billion of greenery ... Then did you feast in comparison with the RSFSR?
                Anything can happen ...
              2. genisis
                genisis 28 October 2017 11: 56 New
                0
                What bothers you? The late USSR took loans from the West. Mama Do not Cry.

                Nothing bothers me. Are there any figures on loans? When, from whom, how much? All the same, a deficit of $ 18,8 billion.
                And why the USSR GDP could not be 76% of the state? For example, in 2013, the RF PPP GDP was higher than in Germany, this is the IMF statistics.

                German GDP 2013 - $ 3,753 billion
                RF GDP 2013 - $ 2,231 billion
                https://www.google.ru/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bnc
                ppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&
                amp;nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=
                lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=coun
                try:RUS:DEU&ifdim=region&hl=ru&dl=ru&
                amp; ind = false
                Two countries that live on their own money, like the USSR, are Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. Even Belarusians live on the money of the Russian Federation.

                Quite by accident, oil fields are located on the territory of the Russian Federation, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan. There is also Turkmenistan, which also lives on its own.
                The rest with natural resources were less fortunate. AND?
                You probably have the opposite in your reality, Russia is poor and you are second to France.

                I live in Russia. And I see perfectly “France” in Russia, in Armenia.
                There is no need to tell fairy tales that after the parasites were dropped, they healed in Russia, like Christ’s bosom. Pension 13000 rubles, for example. How is that a lot?
                What of the surplus, which freed from parasites does not fall to ordinary people?
  13. serge siberian
    serge siberian 22 October 2017 18: 41 New
    0
    INFA firsthand.
    I’ve been home for five years. I got a Russian passport, during this time. I went to my parents today and saw how it felt good. Of course I didn’t say much, emotions do not allow me to convert to Russian, but if short, life became good. There is work, and this is important. Buildings go well and money can be earned without going anywhere.
    And just because the Russian authorities again threw a loan and the Armenian diaspora from Russia took its business to the native expanses of the Caucasus Mountains and valleys. They earned money there and the furniture production expanded.
    1. Karen
      Karen 22 October 2017 18: 49 New
      +1
      But I categorically disagree with this ... Everything is going downhill ... As the Schneersons planned - by destroying the national in Georgia and Armenia - the Khazaria should go to Turkey.
      1. Krasnodar
        Krasnodar 22 October 2017 23: 05 New
        -1
        Quote: Karen
        But I categorically disagree with this ... Everything is going downhill ... As the Schneersons planned - by destroying the national in Georgia and Armenia - the Khazaria should go to Turkey.

        Schneersons is Chabad? ))))
        M-ya))))
        And why not bring “Khazaria" to Switzerland, for example, through the national destruction of Bavaria .. because there are continuous lakes, Alps, civilization))))))
    2. co-creator
      co-creator 26 October 2017 03: 11 New
      0
      Great banter Serge. lol
  14. Bakht
    Bakht 23 October 2017 00: 31 New
    +1
    And in 1918, Azerbaijanis presented Armenia with the capital. The same Yerevan
    1. Karen
      Karen 23 October 2017 00: 47 New
      0
      You can write anything, still sick of the words "the two largest factions - Musavat and Dashnaktsutyun - stand for ..."
      ______
      In those days, it was the Dashnaks who did not allow the destruction of the Turkish army surrounded in the gorge.
      _________
      There is evidence that the Dashnaks agreed to the Turkey-Armenia-Azerbaijan conference ...
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 23 October 2017 00: 53 New
        +2
        Everything is clear with you. Eat myths. What surrounded army? Where? The same myths and rumors that about Nje.
        I give you quotes from a fundamental study of an American professor and a letter from American Orientalists on Turkey and the issue of genocide.
        The conclusion of scientists. "There was genocide. On both sides. The Armenians were the skirmisher. The Kurds simply took the opportunity. The Turkish authorities are guilty of not being able to keep the Kurdish troops. But many more Muslims died."
        I do not consider it necessary to argue. The Russians conquered Erivan, and the Azerbaijanis transferred Yerevan to Armenia. These are the facts.
        1. Karen
          Karen 23 October 2017 01: 25 New
          +1
          Everything is clear with you too ... And with Amer too ...
          Future wars will show who is right.
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 23 October 2017 09: 59 New
            +1
            This is the whole policy of Armenia. Only war can solve problems. What Armenia has been doing for the past hundred years.
            “Our party cannot agree with those who want to achieve their goals only through diplomacy, since pure diplomacy does not consider philanthropy. Our diplomats are guided by their own interest and the right of the strong. Europe is not for us, let the Armenians know that they will not receive anything until the Armenian land is saturated with blood. On the other hand, the party cannot agree with those who, like Europeans, associate the liberation of Armenia with the activities of the proletariat, because as long as Turkey has no industry and large factories, it is unnatural to raise such issues. (...) The land question is our main question. The land must belong to the one who processes it. "
            In 1892, the party adopted its current name, and at the same time the party’s program was published, which specifically said:
            Purpose.
            The goal of the Armenian Revolutionary Commonwealth is to acquire in Turkish Armenia through rebellion political and economic freedom, guided by the principle that each person is the master of his own labor of earned products, that equal work implies an equal right to enjoy life's benefits.
            1. Karen
              Karen 23 October 2017 11: 36 New
              0
              Baku does not want to erect a monument to the ARF for rescuing the Turks in 1918 from the Bolshevik plans to exterminate without exception?
              Here the ARF for such actions was created by the Zionists in the 1890th year.
              1. Bakht
                Bakht 23 October 2017 11: 54 New
                0
                Have you completely lost your head? Dashnaks in Baku slaughtered thousands of Azerbaijanis ... The March events of 1918 went down in our history as the genocide of Azerbaijanis by the Armenians. And just from the side of the Dashnaks.
                And since when did the Zionists create Dashnaktsutyun?
                1. Karen
                  Karen 23 October 2017 12: 28 New
                  0
                  No need to repeat the tales of your horsemen without a head ... March-April ... this is when the Dashnaks stood between the Bolsheviks and the Turks, not allowing the massacre ... Placed the Turks in the barracks and put up guards ... Many of your later openly thanked the Dashnaks, I think and you’ll find in the newspapers of those days ... What they forgot about in September, when the Dashnak elite surrendered Baku to the Turks.

                  What, surely, surnames must be of the type Trotsky, Sverdlov, etc., in order to see nationality and belonging to Zionism?
                  1. Bakht
                    Bakht 23 October 2017 13: 41 New
                    0
                    Until I saw the lack of a head from you. Exactly according to Putin. There is a skull box, but no head.
                    http://heydar-aliyev-foundation.org/ru/content/vi
                    ew / 93/2808 / Guba-memorial-complex-genocide
                    Yes
                    To write that the Dashnaks rescued Azerbaijanis is beyond reasonable limits. I don’t remember something that the Azerbaijanis thanked the Armenians. My grandmother, in any case, has never done this. Curse, yes cursed. Keep your false fabrications to yourself. You can hang in the toilet. There they belong.
                    The conversation on this topic has exhausted itself in view of the complete deceit of the interlocutor.
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 23 October 2017 15: 24 New
                      +1
                      Listen, headless horseman ....
                      There is a legacy from prominent figures of his people ... Shaan Natalie - a hero of revenge, led the extermination of your senior government officials involved in the massacre of Armenians ... His book describes the actions of the ARF to prevent the massacre of the Turks by the Bolsheviks.
                      In the biography of the Dashnaks, the surname of Amazasp who died there is also given - his 200 horsemen stood between the warring parties.
                    2. co-creator
                      co-creator 26 October 2017 03: 20 New
                      0
                      Quote: Bakht
                      Until I saw the lack of a head from you. Exactly according to Putin. There is a skull box, but no head.

                      To be honest, I have seen a lot of Armenians in Russia, but I've never heard such nonsense) Do Armenians in Armenia themselves believe in this garbage or is this an exception?
              2. Krasnodar
                Krasnodar 24 October 2017 03: 31 New
                0
                Quote: Karen
                Baku does not want to erect a monument to the ARF for rescuing the Turks in 1918 from the Bolshevik plans to exterminate without exception?
                Here the ARF for such actions was created by the Zionists in the 1890th year.

                In 1890, Zionism was in diapers, the first Zionist congress was held in Basel in 1892 .... Jews are good to the Turks who warmly welcomed us in 1492 after the expulsion of non-Muslims from Spain, we are very nice to Azerbaijan, where there has always been a large and a prosperous Jewish community, but believe me, we have nothing against the Armenians! :)
                1. Krasnodar
                  Krasnodar 24 October 2017 03: 39 New
                  0
                  The expulsion of non-Christians from Spain, sorry
                  1. Karen
                    Karen 24 October 2017 07: 44 New
                    +1
                    The first actions of the Zionists is the campaign of Moses :)
                    1. Seal
                      Seal 24 October 2017 18: 43 New
                      +1
                      The first actions of the Zionists is the campaign of Moses :)

                      It would be nice to know exactly where it happened.
                      So far we have only a couple of reference points:
                      1. The sea in which the reed grows. Since the sea that parted before Moses, in the Old Testament it is called the Yam Suf. (According to Rashi to 13:18, the word Suf denotes floodplains covered with reeds). Let’s think, on which sea can the dams covered with reeds be located?
                      2. The sea in which the reed grows may part, that is, expose the bottom. Let’s think, what sea, on which there are meadows covered with reeds, periodically exposes its bottom?
                      1. Karen
                        Karen 24 October 2017 19: 38 New
                        0
                        Quote: Seal
                        The first actions of the Zionists is the campaign of Moses :)

                        It would be nice to know exactly where it happened.
                        So far we have only a couple of reference points:
                        1. The sea in which the reed grows. Since the sea that parted before Moses, in the Old Testament it is called the Yam Suf. (According to Rashi to 13:18, the word Suf denotes floodplains covered with reeds). Let’s think, on which sea can the dams covered with reeds be located?
                        2. The sea in which the reed grows may part, that is, expose the bottom. Let’s think, what sea, on which there are meadows covered with reeds, periodically exposes its bottom?

                        Sergey Petrovich, can I ask you to think alone where they all settled down?
                        I’m more interested in the confrontation between Russian Sephardic and Ashkenazi themes ... there are such fights of non-local significance that are breathtaking :)
                        ___________
                        On the topic of German and Turkish, which is very interesting ...
                        Here, find out for yourself which US ships plowed near the Adana area, warning the British and French about the inadmissibility of their landing there, thereby causing them to sail to the Dardanelles. Even a lot of things were transported to Istanbul ... So we can consider that the USA were then allies of the Germans? (I’m not talking about the type of "opponents of the Entente")
                        Not according to the "war passport", of course.
                        ________
                        Do not remember when William pronounced like "... each brand transferred to Turkey will save us one soldier"?
                        (I already have sclerosis for this)
                        But on the topic - why did Hitler not drag Turkey into the war right away? - Well, I forgot the name of the Armenian that I specially carried out work in this direction .... Honestly, I don’t want to find out for a long time - since I think that he had to do it
                2. genisis
                  genisis 24 October 2017 12: 04 New
                  0
                  we treat Azerbaijan very well

                  Of course.
                  Firstly, your main supplier of petroleum products.
                  Secondly, your main consumer of weapons.
                  It would be strange if Israel treated Azerbaijan badly.
                  1. co-creator
                    co-creator 26 October 2017 03: 16 New
                    0
                    Quote: genisis
                    we treat Azerbaijan very well

                    Of course.
                    Firstly, your main supplier of petroleum products.
                    Secondly, your main consumer of weapons.
                    It would be strange if Israel treated Azerbaijan badly.

                    And what prevents the Armenians from being the main buyers of Israeli weapons? Oh yeah, you rogue .. boo-ha-haaa
                    1. genisis
                      genisis 27 October 2017 16: 49 New
                      0
                      And what prevents the Armenians from being the main buyers of Israeli weapons?

                      Armenians take Russian. It is cheaper.
                      1. co-creator
                        co-creator 28 October 2017 06: 58 New
                        +1
                        Quote: genisis
                        Armenians take Russian. It is cheaper.

                        Rather, the Russian Federation gives them a free loan for this purpose.
                      2. genisis
                        genisis 28 October 2017 12: 00 New
                        0
                        Rather, the Russian Federation gives them a free loan for this purpose.

                        In Russia, decisions are made by people who are dumber than you? That is, do you really think that deals are made unprofitable, and decisions are made rash? What is the purpose of those who make such "illiterate" decisions on the free provision of weapons? Do they work for Armenians? Or the Armenians themselves? )))
          2. co-creator
            co-creator 26 October 2017 03: 14 New
            0
            Quote: Karen
            Everything is clear with you too ... And with Amer too ...
            Future wars will show who is right.

            they will crush you like bugs. You’re cheating here because there is a Russian military base in Armenia. We’ll leave, we’ll take away the weapons, “Iskanders”, and you will be covered.
            1. Karen
              Karen 26 October 2017 09: 47 New
              0
              In Serbia, it is similar to situevina ... There is no way without you ...
              In general, you have a small shopkeeper’s way of thinking, not an imperial one ... learn the materiel, it’s useful for perceiving the whole complex ... In order not to spend a lot of time on this, read at least about the Armenian trace in intelligence ... there will not be many pages, but a lot of information.
              Well, that’s it, I have to go, and then the rains are approaching, but I still haven’t driven peach vodka, without a single impurity ...
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 26 October 2017 12: 08 New
                0
                Quote: Karen
                In Serbia, it is similar to situevina ... There is no way without you ...

                Is it similar in Serbia? Lol The Serbian army is at least equal to the Croatian and much stronger than the Bosnian. She herself is able to protect herself. But what the Armenian army can oppose to Azerbaijan is not clear.
                Quote: Karen
                In general, you have a mentality of a small shopkeeper, not an imperial one ... learn the materiel, it is useful for the perception of the whole complex ..

                I understand you more in geopolitics. I’m just amused by such Armenians as you. Sit behind the back of the Russian army and mock at the Azeris, saying that future wars will show who will win. Your arrogance and arrogance is simply amazing.
                Quote: Karen
                read at least about the Armenian trace in intelligence ... there will not be many pages,

                Well, sit and remember the past, at least somehow distract from the understanding that you exist only because it is still beneficial to the elites of the Russian Federation.
                Quote: Karen
                and I still didn’t drive peach vodka, without a single admixture.

                and do this, but don’t pound.
                1. Karen
                  Karen 26 October 2017 14: 20 New
                  +1
                  What he can, he can ...
                  _____
                  But how do Russian elites understand who these same elites are? (Change too often places with non-elites.
                  That was such a Boris Berezovsky from your elite ... Here, you imagine, he taught the representative of the military elite Pulikovsky life the truth: "... I can buy and sell your federal group a hundred times." (+/- numeral)
                  But in the 91st and in the 93rd, who did you take for the elite?
                  I then remember Rokhlin with his love for Baku ... Was he a military elite?
                  _____
                  About amers, you don’t have to be so arrogant ... Even Stalin had to admit that he could not argue ... This, for example, when the Americans and the Angles gave him only three days to get out of Iran ...
                  1. co-creator
                    co-creator 26 October 2017 18: 20 New
                    0
                    Quote: Karen
                    What he can, he can ...

                    You can’t do anything. Even if you stop the Azeris (this is possible, you, as warriors, are much better than Azeris), then the Turks will hit you in the back by dressing your army in Azerbaijani uniform.

                    Quote: Karen
                    But the elites of the Russian Federation, how to understand-who are these very elites?

                    Elites are those who are part of the president’s personal team. Today, the elite is Putin’s team, and in the 90s there was an elite oligarchs who were the Yeltsin’s team. There will be a president who decides that it is more profitable to leave Armenia and the army will leave.
                    By the way, a good example with Rokhlin. He was a military general not included in the political elite and therefore tolerated such words from Berezovsky.
                    Quote: Karen
                    About amers do not need so arrogantly ...

                    Yes, actually, we recognize that the United States is the only super power. Only times have changed and today a superpower can no longer control everything individually.
                    By the way, in today's scenario, the Americans will not help you, they laughed with Erdogan when they could not overthrow him.
                    1. Karen
                      Karen 26 October 2017 18: 47 New
                      +1
                      Correct your mistake in writing the name, I gave an example about Pulikovsky there, and not Rokhlin from Baku.
                      ___
                      About elites - anything can happen - there are elites stronger than their presidents.
                      ____
                      the Americans will not help, it’s clear, but the star of China has risen, and they will definitely help (I hope there is no 5th column) ...
                      1. co-creator
                        co-creator 28 October 2017 07: 06 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Karen
                        but the star of China has ascended, and they will definitely help

                        Why does China need Armenia?) You have nothing to take.
  15. Seal
    Seal 24 October 2017 18: 35 New
    0
    Quote: garnik
    Not those supported, i.e. not autochthonous.

    And who are the autochones? Probably you mean Hurrit, huh? But the descendants of the Hurrians — the Kurds who escaped “Armenization” (essentially escaped the genocide of the Armenian tribes who migrated from somewhere on the Balkan Peninsula), practically did not live in the USSR.
    1. Karen
      Karen 24 October 2017 20: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: Seal
      Quote: garnik
      Not those supported, i.e. not autochthonous.

      And who are the autochones? Probably you mean Hurrit, huh? But the descendants of the Hurrians — the Kurds who escaped “Armenization” (essentially escaped the genocide of the Armenian tribes who migrated from somewhere on the Balkan Peninsula), practically did not live in the USSR.

      Sergei Petrovich, in Soviet textbooks they wrote that the Hurrians from the Caucasian language group (remember incorrectly?), It has been read before your post for many years that the Semitic group ... who should you believe?
      That's about the autochthonism of the basin, so Erzurum no one had any questions in the world, except for Soviet Jewish historians.
      No one can deny that the Hittites are Armenians ... And about the "peoples of the sea" that they shoved into our textbooks so that we do not demand our historical lands under the Union, we can now also say with confidence that we are Cyprus and Crete was populated, but they did not attack us :)
      1. Seal
        Seal 25 October 2017 12: 39 New
        0
        No one can deny that the Hittites are Armenians ...

        In fact, the term "Hittites" first appeared at the end of the 1906th century, when scientists became interested in the powerful people mentioned in the Bible and living north of the "promised land." However, a large-scale study of the Hittite history became possible only after the opening in 1915 of the Bogazkoy archive of the Hatti kings and decryption in 1916-XNUMX. Czech linguist Bedřich the Terrible of Hittite writing. One of the greatest Hittites of the XNUMXth century is Oliver Gurney.

        Strabo "Geography":
        "12. The ancient history of this nation is approximately the following. As I have already said, Armen from the Thessaly city of Armenia, located between Ferah and Larisa on Lake Beba, went on a campaign to Armenia with Jason. Kirsil from Farsala and Midias from Larisa, participants of Alexander’s campaign, they claim that Armenia got its name from him. Some of Armen’s satellites settled in Akilisen (which was formerly subject to the Sophenians), while others - in Sispiritida up to Kalagena and Adiabena beyond the Armenian mountains (in Asia Minor). the clothes of the Armenians are Thessalian; for example, long tunics, called Thessaly in tragedies, tied with a belt near the chest, and outerwear with clasps ... "
        "Armen came from Armenia - one of the cities near Lake Bebeida, between Feram and Larisa. Armen’s satellites occupied the regions of Akilisenu and Sispiritida up to Kalahana and Adiabena, and he even left Armenia of the same name with him." (Strabo. "Geography", XI part, p. 503)
        Strabo brought all this, referring to the natives of Thessaly - Kirsil from Farsal and Midia from Larisa - the participants of the campaign of Alexander the Great.
        And the Roman historian of the III century, Mark Junian Justin, also noted that Armen was from the city of Armenia in Thessaly (near Lake Bebeida) and was the founder of Armenia. And on the north-eastern coast of the Aegean was the region of Thrace, which became the next parking lot of Armenians, who, having got here, further settled in Phrygia in Asia Minor. Then the Armenians settled inland Asia Minor - south of Lake Van and at the source of the Euphrates - that is, at the junction of the borders of modern Turkey, Syria and Iraq. It is this route Thessaly-Thrace-Phrygia and further to the Euphrates River and the south of Lake Van that the ancient authors have shown as a way of nomadizing Armenians.
        And according to the "father of history" Herodotus, Phrygia was located next to another historical area - Cappadocia. At the time of Herodotus (XNUMXth century BC), the ancestors of the Armenians lived "higher than the Assyrians", up the Euphrates - the river that separated, according to the historian, Armenia from Cilicia. He specifically noted that the Armenians came to their country from the West. Herodotus also indicated that the Armenians are descendants of the Phrygians.
        And Strabo (I B.C. - I C.E.) writes about a new Armenia in Asia Minor, where the Armenians moved from the Balkans: "Araks (Araz - R.G.) flows through Armenia, and Cyrus (Kura - R .G.) - through Iberia and Albania ... "" The largest of them is Cyrus. It originates in Armenia ... ".
        The fact that the ancestral home of the Armenians is located outside the South Caucasus and even Asia Minor is written by the outstanding Russian scientist I.M.Dyakonov. Based on a linguistic analysis of the ancient Armenian language, "it is revealed, first of all, that it is Indo-European ...". Further, Dyakonov states: "since the ancient Armenian language is not related to the languages ​​of the autochthons of the Armenian Highlands - Hurrit, Urartu, it is clear that it is brought here from the outside." Similar conclusions were reached in a special study on the "pre-Caucasian homeland" of Armenians, the famous Armenist G. Kapantsyan, who believed that Armenians should be confined mainly to the space between the upper reaches of the Euphrates (Kara-su), Chorokh and Araks, where they relocated Balkan (Thessaly).

        Based on the above, it can be stated that the Armenians are not the autochthons of Asia Minor, especially the South Caucasus.
        1. Karen
          Karen 25 October 2017 13: 11 New
          +1
          Most of the Hittites are written, I think, in the Egyptian pyramids - as their only real opponents. What is written there, you can find out, it’s not difficult .... Can you give an example of at least one people, which in anthropology is similar to the Hittites? Only one is us. And we have been here since ancient times ... There are also notes about the Armenians of Tushpiya. A careful analysis shows that the Assyrians scared Armenians near Lake Van.
          On the territory between the Charoch and Araks rivers, it would be necessary to make an amendment, since the Greeks often wrote hops from our beer there ... this is when they returned with their hired squads after the failed Maidan in Parthia or where.
          I will answer in the South Caucasus in a few days.
          1. Seal
            Seal 27 October 2017 17: 00 New
            0
            Most of the Hittites are written, I think, in the Egyptian pyramids - as their only real opponents. What is written there, you can find out, it's not difficult ...

            Actually, it’s not a fact that Champollion’s version of decoding hieroglyphs is correct. In any case, those who drew hieroglyphs hardly called those whom we call the Hittites in the same way as we call them. Therefore, I personally do not understand how to determine who it is: the Hittites, the Greeks, the Trojans, the Persians, the Ethiopians ....
            1. Karen
              Karen 27 October 2017 17: 26 New
              0
              In anthropology ... Well, there are no more!
  16. Karen
    Karen 24 October 2017 19: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Seal
    The united troops of the Ottomans, Kurds and our Cilicia opposed the Bukhara people.

    Who are the "Bukhara"?
    Which "Cilicia"? She is already decent years, as was not. It was the state of the Karamanids.
    If we are talking about Timur, then Samarkand was its capital, and not Bukhara.
    And where did the Serbs go, bearing the brunt of the battle against Timur (Tamerlane) at the Battle of Angora on July 20, 1402? Or have you replaced the Serbs with the Kurds?

    Sergey Petrovich, there was such a tribe from Bukhara that Genghis Khan was chasing ... So with fear, with all his belongings, he went through the Persians and settled here for several years, and also came to Tiflis. It was against him that the Turkish Konya rallied (what the "Ottomans" wrote to mean the Turks), the Kurdish Khlat and the Armenian Kilikia (Kilikia _real_ existed from the middle of the 300th century, XNUMX years ago). You can google the year of the battle.
    The battle of Khlata (sometimes Chelate is written in your place) against Timur can also be google on the fact of dropping the cut off heads to Lake Van ... Timur has visited our region about eight times, he especially liked this business. The fact that he defeated Tokhtamysh was also connected with the impudence of the latter to act in the Transcaucasus ... lucky for you, in the Russian sense.
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 October 2017 12: 46 New
      0
      Sergey Petrovich, there was such a tribe from Bukhara that Genghis Khan was chasing ...
      About who these "Genghis Khan" and how many of them could be, I have repeatedly said.

      Ah, apparently you mean those who in the traditional official version of history are called "Khorezmians" under the direction of a certain Jalal-ed-Din Mengburna? Yes, there is such a version that some “Khorezmians” put everything on their ears. It is not clear only what if they were so “cool”, they could not cope with some “Mongols” in their Khorezm negative
      1. Karen
        Karen 25 October 2017 13: 40 New
        0
        I begin to recall forgotten surnames - I read something 40 years ago ...
        There is an American film about Genghis Khan.,. He claims that 30% of today's military tactics is his legacy. Maybe challenge that movie in academia / region?
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 26 October 2017 03: 27 New
          0
          Quote: Karen
          There is an American film about Genghis Khan.,. He claims that 30% of today's military tactics is his legacy. Maybe challenge that movie in academia / region?

          to challenge the Americans? bye .. and where did they fight at land theaters to talk about tactics?
          1. Karen
            Karen 26 October 2017 09: 32 New
            0
            They fought all over the planet and slaughtered perfectly - the population ...
            In a desert storm there they fought well ... And they had a portrait of a desert fox hanging on them - they know how to use other people's right tactics.
            But the familiar warriors who helped the Egyptians / Syrians told an interesting case .. the Jews flew from behind the mountains and fired rockets ... ours did not have time to launch air defense missiles in one gulp ... they realized that with the information about the departure of planes it was necessary to pull in advance, and already in the air to meet uninvited guests ... Jewish pilots catapulted from this surprise, but the Americans used a missile defense ... (Can I not believe the story of a Soviet officer with a Jewish name?)
            And the best tactics of amers is as old as the world ... where you don’t get for money, you get for a lot of money :) it won’t always work, but they try ...
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 26 October 2017 12: 18 New
              0
              To cut the natives who are weaker by an order of magnitude no tactics are needed.

              Before the "era of engines" and the "era of artillery" Americans never fought in large armies anywhere, and it was then that they could still apply similar tactics of the Middle Ages. With the advent of tanks and normal artillery, Mongol tactics are simply impossible to apply.
  17. Seal
    Seal 25 October 2017 12: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: genisis
    RF is a multinational, multiconfessional state

    Wow !!! Even a "multi-faith state" ??? Who invented or helped who ?? And what does article 14 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation tell us?

    1. Russian Federation - secular state. No religion can be established as state or mandatory.
    2. Religious associations are separated from the state and are equal before the law.

    And it’s not for you to decide when and where to leave the citizens of the Russian Federation who are absolutely equal in rights with you.
    Wow !! Do you already feel like a master in a strange house ?? And do you refuse us the right to verify the legality of obtaining our citizenship by the millions of citizens of our former fraternal republics who received it after 1991?
    On the eve of Moscow, a serial "klofelin taxi driver" was detained. 29 victims were allegedly victims of the 64-year-old taxi driver Karapetyan. One of the victims of the criminal died. Vagan Karapetyan arrived in Moscow with the aim of obtaining Russian citizenship.

    I believe that we have the right to deprive our citizenship of those who have the citizenship of the United States or another NATO member country.
    1. genisis
      genisis 27 October 2017 13: 12 New
      0
      Wow !!! Even a "multi-faith state" ??? Who invented or helped who ?? And what does article 14 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation tell us?
      1. The Russian Federation is a secular state. No religion can be established as state or mandatory.
      2. Religious associations are separated from the state and are equal before the law.

      I say, you have a logic problem.
      As the article you cited refutes that in Russia there are a large number of adherents of different religions: Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews. Every religion has the opportunity to worship. No one is infringed on this basis. This means that Russia is a multiconfessional state.
      Wow !! Do you already feel like a master in a strange house ?? And do you refuse us the right to verify the legality of obtaining our citizenship by the millions of citizens of our former fraternal republics who received it after 1991?

      I am the master in my house. You are in your own way. Together with you, we are building and developing our common home - the Russian Federation. If you have difficulty understanding this simple fact, work on yourself. I personally do not refuse any of your legal rights. Checking the legality of obtaining citizenship is the responsibility of the competent authorities. I hope they cope with their work.
      If it comes to every “Sergey Petrovich” that he has the right to check something with someone, then it’s not an hour, he might rattle off.
      1. Seal
        Seal 27 October 2017 16: 38 New
        0
        I am the master in my house. You are in your own way. Together with you, we are building and developing our common home - the Russian Federation.

        Wow ? Are you already the "owner" in our house? Have you created this house for 1000 years? You, having failed to save your house, fled to our house.
        Citizen strife to citizen. I have the legal right to be sure that, so to speak, the “new citizens” of our country will not shoot our soldiers in the back if our country has to fight with that country that is the historical homeland for our new citizens like you. As I understand it, you did not take any oath of unconditional allegiance to Russia and serving exclusively the interests of the Russian Federation when you acquired our citizenship. And in our army you most likely also did not serve. Although even if they served, this does not guarantee anything, since the oath is valid only for active servicemen. It is not without reason that if mobilizers are called up for war on storage, they again take the oath. Tell me, do you personally have a second passport by chance? Armenian, American, French or Israeli?
        Do you have relatives abroad of the Russian Federation?
        And if there are some, they will be “squeezed" ... then on the series "Sleeping" we recall the betrayal of the Director of the Department of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
        1. genisis
          genisis 27 October 2017 16: 55 New
          0
          Wow ? Are you already the "owner" in our house? Have you created this house for 1000 years? You, having failed to save your house, fled to our house.

          1) I am the master in my house. I don’t care about yours personally. If by your house you mean the Russian Federation, then it is as yours as mine. Maybe try to explain why you have more rights than mine?
          2) What is 1000 years old ??? What are you talking about. The Russian Federation appeared in 1991. You and I are its citizens. This is our country. And this is a given. Reasoning who and what he built 300-500-700-1000 years ago is just babble. 70 years ago you were not in the world. What could you build ???
          3) I did not run away. Born in the Soviet Union. At the age of 1 year he was brought to the Far East, where he lived most of his life. Studied / called / married / worked. I don’t see how you, as a citizen of the Russian Federation, differ from me, except for the name, color of eyes / hair.

          He answered the rest above, too lazy to repeat.
      2. Seal
        Seal 27 October 2017 16: 56 New
        0
        Together with you, we are building and developing our common home - the Russian Federation.

        We take the first general census of the population of the Russian Empire in 1897.
        Distribution of the population by mother tongue, provinces and regions.
        Erivan province.
        A total of 829 people.
        Mother tongues called:
        - Russian language - 15 937 people;
        - Armenian language - 441 people;
        - Tatar language - 313 people;
        - Aysor language - 2865 people;
        Kurdish language - 49 389 people;
        Polish language - 1385 people;
        Greek - 1323 people;
        Lithuanian - 384 people
        Italian language - 330 people.
        And more than 50 languages ​​were called less than 300 people.
        The total number of Armenians in Erivan province in 1898 was slightly more than half - 53, 16%.
        Where are now all non-Armenians who lived in 1898 in this once-tolerant Province of the Russian Empire ??? Wolves ate them all?

        We look at the Kars province.
        Only 290654 people.
        The native language was called Armenian - 73 thousand. Somewhere 25%.
        And interestingly, we look at the Elizabethpol province. That is, the current Karabakh and surroundings.
        Total 878 415 people
        The native language was called Armenian - 292 people. Or 188% of the population of the province.

        What do we have now? You from the previously tolerant provinces of the Russian Empire created the most mono-ethnic state in the world, in which 98,8% of the population are representatives of the titular nation. And did you decide to teach us tolerance? You, who were unable to get along with practically none of the peoples who previously inhabited the Erivan, Kars, Elisavetpol provinces, now breaking into or sneaking into our house decided that you would be allowed to dictate your rules in our house !!! ???
        No, you personally have already finished building !! Enough of your construction !!! Look, what builder was found. Already from secular states he made multi-confessional.
        Again. We have religious associations are separated from the state
        1. genisis
          genisis 27 October 2017 17: 04 New
          0
          We look at the Kars province.

          Kars, Karl, Kars province, which is now in Turkey. And the fact that the Russians do not live there, the Armenians are to blame))))))
          Sergey Petrovich, you need to perform in gum.
          now breaking into or sneaking into our house we decided that you would be allowed to dictate your rules in our house !!! ???

          You really have an inferiority complex. We live in the same house. In the Russian Federation. And it is far from a fact that our common home, your living in it brings more benefits than mine.
          And by the way, it would be very interesting to know on the basis of what you have more rights in the Russian Federation than other citizens?
          1. Seal
            Seal 30 October 2017 12: 57 New
            +1
            We live in the same house. In the Russian Federation. And it is far from a fact that our common home, your living in it brings more benefits than mine.


            Yes, we live in the same house. But what is the difference between us.
            1. As I have already pointed out, it does not matter to me and my descendants who to fight with as part of our army. Even with the Americans, even with the French, even with the Indians, even with the Armenians, even with the Georgians, even with the Turks, at least with the Ethiopians, even with the Chinese.
            There is a difference for you. You categorically refuse to fight against Armenia.

            2. I in no way depend on the opinions of those who are abroad. Therefore, I protect exclusively the interests of my homeland - Russia. Sorry, but I have the deepest beliefs that it is in Russia's interests to establish (renew) friendly relations with Turkey and Azerbaijan.
            You are very dependent on your nationality and your Armenian relatives.
            You constantly make claims to the Turks for your relatives who died a hundred years ago. At me, like a huge number of my compatriots, the Germans killed many relatives, including from among the elderly and minors. By the way, personally, some of my relatives died in evacuation from hunger and disease in our territory. But I do not blame the leadership of the USSR for the genocide of my population.
            As a result, being a Russian by passport, you are not able to correctly identify and recognize only the interests of Russia, because your nationality and your relatives in Armenia dominate you. Therefore, contrary to the state interests of the Russian Federation, you demand that we quarrel with Turkey and Azerbaijan for the interests of Armenia.

            Sorry, but your historic homeland is like a kettlebell. Do not have “anti-Turkish sentiments”, in 1945 we (the USSR) did not put forward any territorial claims of Turkey. Accordingly, Turkey would remain our friend, as it has become since 1921. She would not join NATO. Accordingly, American Jupiter missiles would not have appeared in Turkey, which in fact led to the Caribbean crisis and almost led to the Third World War.

            As I indicated below, you are trying to imagine Russia as a kind of monster who wants to capture Kars, Alexandropol, Trabzon, the Straits, Istanbul ... .. and in general it turns out that we must expand without limits until we take over the whole world.
            In fact, even Nicholas I wrote and said that it was in Russia's interests to preserve Turkey as a single state within the borders that it now (in his time) has. It is clear that he was prepared for the fact that Russia would have to do something if Turkey began to disintegrate. And he even called Turkey "the sick man of Europe." But Nicholas I himself made a lot of efforts to save Turkey. Up to the point that our expeditionary force sent to protect the Turkish capital from the troops of the Egyptian Pasha advancing on it in 1833.

            Therefore, I'm sorry, but if you want to build our common home with me - the Russian Federation, then please be kind to renounce all your foreign interests and be guided only by the interests of Russia.
            And first of all, you need to renounce the interests of your Armenian relatives.
            Well, and if you are not able to do this, then do not blame me, but for me you are the “fifth column”, ready in some part to betray the interests of Russia in favor of Armenia.

            Unfortunately, this is why
            You really have an inferiority complex. And it is far from a fact that our common home, your living in it brings more benefits than mine.

            I see that I am talking to a person who is not ready to give up the interests of Armenia for the sake of Russia. But at the same time, impudently portraying himself as a greater Catholic than the Pope.
  18. Seal
    Seal 25 October 2017 12: 50 New
    0
    Karen,
    Sergey Petrovich, can I ask you to think alone where they all settled down?
    I understand that you also agree with the version that I hinted at? Well, then close the topic.
    I’m more interested in the confrontation between Russian Sephardic and Ashkenazi themes ... there are such fights of non-local significance that are breathtaking :)

    What are Russian Sephardim? Where did the Sephardim come from? Well, or just .. if a part of the Sephardim expelled "by their Catholic Majesties" from Spain (and Portugal ??) found refuge in the Ottoman Empire, and already from there some of them moved to us ???
    1. Karen
      Karen 25 October 2017 13: 23 New
      0
      Why can this topic be closed?
      In Basel, there or where else can be Zionist actions, and the very first who planned to conquer the whole world can not have ???
      _______
      Sergey Petrovich, well, don’t, pzhsta, adidish shshtik (if I remember this expression correctly) !!!
      Where are they among the leaders they themselves know, and the Russians are simply obliged to know all this taken together :) a joke, with a fraction of a joke :)
      1. garnik
        garnik 25 October 2017 14: 11 New
        0
        Karen, do not argue with such an opponent. He is a Turk or paid by the Turks, even worse.
        I always had a question why the Armenians call themselves high, and others Armenians and this tied our history to the first mention of the word ARMENIA. But the attitude towards the state of Hayass (which was located on the territory of Armenia) is stubbornly denied. Indeed, from the Assyrian Hayass it is the country of Chai. It is clear that others wrote our story for us, but still.
      2. Seal
        Seal 27 October 2017 16: 44 New
        0
        Why can this topic be closed?

        Because, as I understand it, I have the same understanding with you, where and where the "outcome of the Moses Jews" came from. hi
        1. Karen
          Karen 27 October 2017 17: 08 New
          0
          I already wrote about this ... Jews and Byzantines always took Jews from us. Those who remained here lived in their kibbutzim with a complete ban on Armenians from communicating with them, except for trade relations. They designated their way of life as Pavlikianism (this is communism, with common wives), then they renamed themselves Tondraki ... propagandized their image on each lane ... Well, the church decided to give a fight. Pahlevuni led the troops ... 500000 killed and sent 1000000 to Byzantium and Bulgaria (there they were designated as Bogomiltsy).
          It was this battle that bleed our people.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Seal
    Seal 27 October 2017 16: 19 New
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Given that at the time when RI ceased to exist, you were not in the world, then to judge how it satisfied you, at least not correctly.

    Given that we have a mass application documents, including newsreels and even newsreels, I have enough reason for my conclusions.
    1. genisis
      genisis 27 October 2017 16: 59 New
      +2
      Given that we have a ton of documents, including photo chronicle and even newsreel, I have enough reason for my conclusions.

      You have enough reason for your assumptions, not conclusions.
      The funny thing is that according to the same assumptions, you could have been born to the Chukchi, or a hunter, and you would not have known what the Russian Empire was))))
      1. Seal
        Seal 30 October 2017 11: 50 New
        +1
        The funny thing is that according to the same assumptions, you could have been born to the Chukchi, or a hunter, and you would not have known what the Russian Empire was))))

        Could. But since I was born Russian, I express our Russian interests. Let me remind you that Russians are not only Slavs. If a person is not even a Slav, he thinks in Russian and puts imperial interests at the forefront - he is Russian. Russian Tatar, Russian Bashkir, Russian Chechen ...
        There are even Russian Armenians. But there are so few of them that they can be neglected. Unfortunately, mainly Armenians put the interests of Armenians and Armenia at the forefront. Even being the fifth generation of Russians.
        1. genisis
          genisis 30 October 2017 15: 14 New
          0
          Russian Tatar, Russian Bashkir, Russian Chechen ...

          When, God forbid, there will be a war between Tatarstan and the Russian Federation, or Bashkortostan and the Russian Federation, you explain this, in your understanding to the Russian Tatars and Bashkirs, that they will have to fight for the Russian Federation, and not their republics. My neighbor Ramil, a Bashkir by nationality, will tear anyone up for Russia, but if there is a war between Bashkiria and the Russian Federation, he will fight for Bashkiria.
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 30 October 2017 17: 24 New
            0
            Quote: genisis
            My neighbor Ramil, a Bashkir by nationality, will tear anyone up for Russia, but if there is a war between Bashkiria and the Russian Federation, he will fight for Bashkiria.

            That is, even the cause of the war will not matter to him? Well, for example, the authorities of Bashkiria will ban the Russian language, will oppress the Russian population.
            1. genisis
              genisis 30 October 2017 19: 49 New
              0
              Maybe put it not quite right. He will certainly fight for Bashkiria if attacked. Will he fight for her when Bashkiria attacks the Russian Federation, I don’t know.
              1. co-creator
                co-creator 31 October 2017 23: 06 New
                0
                Quote: genisis
                He will certainly fight for Bashkiria if attacked.

                In short, his national is ahead of justice. Whether the Nazis will be in Bashkiria, they will slaughter the Russians to him no matter, Bashkiria will still defend. What can I say, such people need to be destroyed.
  21. Karen
    Karen 27 October 2017 16: 20 New
    +1
    Today, all liquid products in Moscow and Yerevan will celebrate their victory 18 years ago, when the SVR organized the slaughter in our parliament, stealing from our people the hope of strong statehood ....
    And they slipped us pigs from the liquid worshipers ...
  22. Seal
    Seal 27 October 2017 16: 36 New
    0
    Quote: genisis
    There were also sentences against them.

    That's interesting. Answers of Armenians to questions about the Turks:
    1. What is the most lying people in the world? The answer of Armenians is "The most deceitful people in the world are Turks."
    2. Can a Turkish court be righteous? The answer of the Armenians. "A Turkish court cannot be righteous because Turkish courts are the most unrighteous courts in the world."
    3. Was the Istanbul Tribunal 1991-1920 righteous? (by the way, carried out under the occupation of Constantinople by the troops of the Entente)? The answer of the Armenians: "The Istanbul Tribunal of 1919-1920 is the most righteous tribunal in the world, and the judges of the tribunal are the most honest judges." laughing
    1. Karen
      Karen 27 October 2017 16: 52 New
      0
      The paddlers quickly turned this matter around, directing everything to creating a sanitary cordon from Bolshevik Russia. And our Dashnaks later admitted that they could suppress the Kemalists in the bud, but did not assume about such a far-reaching frogging of the paddlers ...
    2. genisis
      genisis 27 October 2017 17: 00 New
      0
      The answer of the Armenians: "The Istanbul Tribunal of 1919-1920 is the most righteous tribunal in the world, and the judges of the tribunal are the most honest judges."

      Therefore, the sentence was executed by the Armenians on their own laughing
      1. Seal
        Seal 30 October 2017 15: 15 New
        0
        Let me remind you that the European Court did not recognize the "Armenian genocide" as a historical fact, calling it only "opinion, the ban on contesting which itself is a violation of human rights."
  23. Seal
    Seal 27 October 2017 17: 03 New
    0
    Quote: genisis
    And in relation to the killer Khachik Zakaryan, no witnesses appeared, although much more years have passed.

    Big you mushrooms hide the ends in the water. Perhaps the artist was immediately removed. And you carried out indignation much more “economically” than Lithuanians or Ukrainians. They managed one sacred sacrifice. But Ukrainians put a hundred of their put.
    1. genisis
      genisis 27 October 2017 17: 06 New
      0
      They managed one sacred sacrifice.

      So the fact of the matter is that, firstly, the victim was not sacred, since after this murder no further actions took place, and, secondly, the murder was committed by those who then quietly evaded responsibility, being covered by the high leadership of the operation .
    2. Karen
      Karen 27 October 2017 17: 30 New
      0
      Quote: Seal
      Quote: genisis
      And in relation to the killer Khachik Zakaryan, no witnesses appeared, although much more years have passed.

      Big you mushrooms hide the ends in the water. Perhaps the artist was immediately removed. And you carried out indignation much more “economically” than Lithuanians or Ukrainians. They managed one sacred sacrifice. But Ukrainians put a hundred of their put.

      No ... And we had a lot ...
  24. Seal
    Seal 27 October 2017 17: 32 New
    0
    Quote: genisis
    For example, I would like for RI to defeat Turkey in World War I and the Armenians to keep Ararat, Kars, Alexandropol, access to the Black Sea.

    Well here it is, sincere recognition. He wanted us to shed our Russian blood in the war with Turkey so that the Armenians would keep Ararat, Kars, Alexandropol, access to the Black Sea.
    By the way, why
    so that the Armenians would keep Ararat, Kars, Alexandropol,
    All that you listed - was it Armenian? Everything that you listed was the property of the Russian Empire, and not of the Armenians !! Oh yes, you think that you have privatized our state and now dispose of it as at home. You are of the type "master", "sagib" !!!
    What else do you have access to the Black Sea? Have you agreed on it with the Georgians? Georgians, exactly the same subjects of the Russian Empire, and then the USSR, did not at all consider that the Armenians deserved to have access to the Black Sea through historical Georgian lands. hi
    For example, I am quite happy with the option of maintaining peace with Turkey in 1914, receiving help from allies in the Black Sea ports closest to the theater of operations with Germany and Austria-Hungary, defeating Germany back in 1916 and preserving the Russian Empire. Accordingly, the Second World War, which claimed the lives of at least another 25 million Slavs, is a priori excluded.
    But Ararat, Kars and Alexandropol in FIG I do not need.
    But we would now have at least 100 million, and more than 300 million Slavs.
    1. Karen
      Karen 27 October 2017 18: 04 New
      0
      Americans understood about our access to the sea ...
      And about Kars - this is generally a classic of the genre ... Marx back in 1852. on this occasion warned his Russophobia ...
      1. genisis
        genisis 28 October 2017 00: 39 New
        +1
        The Russians shed their blood solely for their interests. On the Caucasian front, interests coincided with Armenian ones. Kars, Aleksanropol - would remain the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia. Only the Armenians would live there, not the Turks.
        1. Seal
          Seal 30 October 2017 09: 31 New
          0
          The Russians shed their blood solely for their interests. On the Caucasian front, interests coincided with Armenian ones. Kars, Aleksanropol - would remain the territory of the Republic of Ingushetia. Only the Armenians would live there, not the Turks.


          You are now of us (from the Russian Empire), using American training manuals, trying to imagine a monster who allegedly wanted to conquer the whole world. Yes, for us, even Transcaucasia was superfluous. We have our territory north of the main Caucasian ridge - heaps. We had quite something to master. Baku with its oil fields is yes, it is important for us. And Kars with Alexandropol .... yes they would walk in the forest. In 1739, we calmly returned Persia to the entire southern coast of the Caspian Sea. Just. For the sake of friendship. We didn’t need it.
          1. Karen
            Karen 30 October 2017 14: 10 New
            0
            I’m writing about Kars for the third time ... This is a classic of the genre ... Back in 1852. the true Russian hater K. Marx warned that RI should not be allowed to grab this granary.
            About Transcaucasia and Baku oil ... Who would have let you go before it if there weren’t Russian bayonets there? .. The British would definitely go to war against this. The Russians were lucky that their ancestors were more energetic then ...
            About the actions of Nicholas I. He would have crushed Turkey then, not helping the Egyptians, maybe then everything would have been easier ...
            In general, Wang saw better about the future ... we will wait. :)
            1. Karen
              Karen 30 October 2017 14: 33 New
              0
              Sorry ... without interfering with the Egyptians.
  25. Seal
    Seal 27 October 2017 18: 04 New
    0
    Quote: garnik
    As far as I know, the construction of a nuclear power plant in Akkuyu will be on Russian loans.

    Oh-oh-oh .... what pain, what pain .... what pain for Armenians. We gave a loan to Turkey, not Armenia. But is the fact that Armenia annually receives loans from us and just financial assistance? Well, yes, of course, it was abyna, yes, that our loan on which the nuclear power plant in Turkey will be built passed by the Armenian pocket. tongue
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Karen
    Karen 28 October 2017 08: 15 New
    +1
    co-creator,
    They do not always think in terms of the shopkeeper ... They need us against pan-Turkism ... The Russians are dying demographic, and what will be on your lands is not entirely clear ... So they will keep their finger on the pulse.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 31 October 2017 23: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Karen
      co-creator,
      They do not always think in terms of the shopkeeper ... They need us against pan-Turkism ... The Russians are dying demographic, and what will be on your lands is not entirely clear ... So they will keep their finger on the pulse.

      The elites think in their own interests; they do not care for the people from the word at all. The extinction of the Russians has been stopped although there is no growth yet. If there are no Russians, then there will be no Russia. Although this will not happen in a hundred years.
      Today you are needed, tomorrow you are not needed, that's all. Actually, if we talk about garlic, the United States needs you and it is with the hands of the Russian elite that they do not let the Turks deal with you.
      1. Karen
        Karen 1 November 2017 20: 03 New
        0
        Quotation: blooded man
        Quote: Karen
        co-creator,
        They do not always think in terms of the shopkeeper ... They need us against pan-Turkism ... The Russians are dying demographic, and what will be on your lands is not entirely clear ... So they will keep their finger on the pulse.

        The elites think in their own interests; they do not care for the people from the word at all. The extinction of the Russians has been stopped although there is no growth yet. If there are no Russians, then there will be no Russia. Although this will not happen in a hundred years.
        Today you are needed, tomorrow you are not needed, that's all. Actually, if we talk about garlic, the United States needs you and it is with the hands of the Russian elite that they do not let the Turks deal with you.

        There are other moments ...
        One hundred years ago, when the Russians left, American flour saved us from hunger. Woodrow Wilson wanted to make an ally of us here for 160 kmXNUMX, with access to the Black Sea ... so Britain resisted ... Then the British sang with the Bolsheviks, and the French and Kemalists against the Bolsheviks. In addition, US Jewry forced Wilson to backtrack. Well, the final scheme still drew the paddling pool.
        Due to Jewish supremacy in the Russian Federation and the USA, there is little hope for your cover ... China remains.
        But our main enemy is "our" scum in power since 27.10.1999/XNUMX/XNUMX.
        1. co-creator
          co-creator 2 November 2017 00: 40 New
          0
          Quote: Karen
          One hundred years ago, when the Russians left, American flour saved us from hunger. Woodrow Wilson wanted to make an ally of us here for 160 kmXNUMX, with access to the Black Sea ... so Britain resisted ... Then the British sang with the Bolsheviks, and the French and Kemalists against the Bolsheviks. In addition, US Jewry forced Wilson to backtrack. Well, the final scheme still drew the paddling pool.

          So you are no different from ukrov means) Someone overseas should create Great Armenia instead of you, on the lands where it never existed and by 1 there were a minority of Armenians) And when this project is naturally closed like Wilson’s usual Wishlist he and other countries are to blame for this)) Maybe you need to create your own country. rather than grabbing foreign lands with the wrong hands, no?)) Hoh.ly your relatives are definitely))
          Quote: Karen
          Due to Jewish supremacy in the Russian Federation and the USA, there is little hope for your cover ... China remains.

          You are raving. China does not even know where Armenia is located
          1. Karen
            Karen 2 November 2017 00: 56 New
            0
            And where does such knowledge come from in China?
            _________
            By the way, I forgot to write about RI diplomats in Persia, in terms of qualifications, or rather, in terms of the absolute incompetence of many of them. Here was such a report from there: "... The Armenians are deceiving that they are the only Christians of Persia ... and the Parskagai are Christians."
            That scumbag then :)))
            1. co-creator
              co-creator 2 November 2017 02: 03 New
              0
              Quote: Karen
              And where does such knowledge come from in China?

              They have no interests in this region. On the contrary, they need peace there for the Silk Road that goes from Iran to Turkey.
              Quote: Karen

              By the way, I forgot to write about RI diplomats in Persia, in terms of qualifications, or rather, in terms of the absolute incompetence of many of them. Here was such a report from there: "... The Armenians are deceiving that they are the only Christians of Persia ... and the Parskagai are Christians."
              That scumbag then :)))

              Well, you know better)
  28. Karen
    Karen 28 October 2017 16: 47 New
    0
    Seal,
    About the transition of troops to Timur, I read in the textbooks of the Az.SSR. ... there it was, I wrote ... did not know, thanks.
    And the fact that the Mongols were no longer allies to our Cilicians, as before, but opponents, then they explained to us that the Mongols, the Samarkand rulers, had already converted to Islam, unlike Genghis Khan and his first successors.
  29. Seal
    Seal 30 October 2017 09: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Karen
    If not for the participation of the Germans in the Battle of Molodi

    And how many were there, Germans?

    And about the Germans about hired boyars to hunt, so that on them the same heads that will be with them, the food was prepared for sale by their 38 horse feed, and the Germans would pay the price at a price. But to order beer to brew in Kolomna and in Serpukhov, and to order the Germans to pay the price, guessing at the price that the Germans made food and drink for sale; and the price for them is imati. And to put them especially military Russian people in which is close to themselves from the city, so that they would not quarrel with the Moscow people; take care of it

    And what was ordered by the Vyatchan to be ashore, and to prepare to order the boyars on Kolomna, in Serpukhov, in Koluga, the sovereign’s reserves for nine hundred people crackers 1350 cheetahs, for people three osmins for three months, and oat groats 135 cheetahs, and also fat for three months but for a man’s diet for osmosis cereals and for osmino oatmeal for a month. And to order the plows from the Lower to send to Kolomna a large body of water. Yes, to arrange transportation by the boyars and governors along the Oka along the river, and the large ships to write along the Oka along the river how much will be needed in the Zemsky and in the oprichnina how much where to take it. And take, evaluating, and pay the money in advance.

    And to whom we give the boyars the Moscow lands and the Nougorodtsky and Seversky cities of versts, to give a salary, and a boyar by painting, of those children of the boyars, to give a salary, and who will be new children of the boyars, whom we are commanded to collect around the city, and thereby to give, the conversion, the salary. And who ... come in handy and forward to the service, and those, having turned, and to give estates from empty lands. And now they are ordered to take away the fed money from netchiks, and to that money, looking out for the good children of the boyars, who have long served, tidying up and turning up; and in spite of the proper service, give. And for laziness and thinness for others to subtract. And the children of the boyars to make up the clerk to go ashore Ivan Mikhailov. And whom people with pishchlimi will hire and whom people of the boyars will be taken by distant ones with pishchlimi, and for those they squeaked a potion to give; from the treasury for that, take potions and lead to the reserve, and then transfer everything to the list separately according to the articles of the case. Yes, the memory of the boyar to Prince Mikhail Ivanovich Vorotynsky and Ivan Vasilyevich Lesser Sheremetev. The king and the grand duke ordered them to be captain Yury Franzbek, and with him hired German one hundred people of Rugodevsky 100 hours with Vasily Sharapov; and so hire a date, and buy food for them ... money by decree. And the captain told them to be Yury Franzbek. And to indicate: the price at the local price at an inexpensive price trying on the current price. And the boyars to assign them to the courtyard, setting up courtyards, the boyars' children, give them food, collect with sokh, and order to pay for the price; Yes Sotskogo and tselovnikov to deliver from the fence at the stern, so as not to have stern with feed. And to order beer and honey, having done it, to keep about them, and to order them a hundred people, he should sell them honey and beer. And Yuryo Franzbek: give him food with people and eat people with thirty people for a day ... yes, two buckets of honey, three buckets of beer, three oats or three osmits a day; Yes, from Rugodev with Carlus, there are ten Germans; to that, give him a hryvnia and a bucket of honey on a bucket of honey on his head, and people give him a man for a month for a month to hire a man Ephimka for a month, and 12 for money ... And they feed .. buy the same as a hired German. And Yuryo Franzbek’s fodder and hiring people and Carlus were given money in Moscow to the clerk Ivan Mikhailov for three months, and Carlus was given three months for his head, and three months were given to him for money for Yefim. And in Rugodev, for a month he was given to him on people [her]. Yes, he was sent from Villan .. he was sent from the estate and with people, and he only had to give honey in a bucket on his head. Yes sent from Moscow German Moscow 9 hours; and that painting was given to Ivan Mikhailov to whom to give food and to whom not to give, hto from the estate. And given to them for three months.


    And the Germans were paid, as you can see, not weakly.

    By the way, here is a good example that nothing in state apparatuses without written orders is not spinning. Especially in wartime. Therefore, the descriptions of all the great battles, from which allegedly there is not a single documentary word, are the essence of speculation and speculation. The battle of Avaraira including.
    1. Karen
      Karen 30 October 2017 13: 39 New
      0
      The battle of Avaray ... this is the case when the army was going to certain death ... not at the likelihood of victory, but namely to die in battle ... the Huns then, although they promised help with the troops, did not come ...
      Not until written orders then it was.
      1. Seal
        Seal 1 November 2017 09: 36 New
        0
        Not until written orders then it was.

        Not certainly in that way. If you
        the army was on
        then this army had to be assembled by some sort of order.
        even
        the army went to certain death.
        then it could not go to certain death hungry? So, orders were needed to collect food and deliver it to some places.
        the Huns then, although they promised help with the troops, did not come ...
        How do you know that the Huns promised help? They are that, Wrotethat will send help? Where is the letter? Or did the Huns send a messenger with an oral promise of help? But then, after all, one of the contemporaries had to write downthat supposedly then and then such a Hunnic ambassador (or messenger) came and promised such and such help. Otherwise, if no one wrote down - how did you know this?
        Further. And how did the Huns even learn that someone needed help? So someone turned to the Huns, right? How did you apply - in writing or orally? In theory, it should be in writing. Otherwise, you will send a messenger or an ambassador, so long as he travels such a distance, he will forget half of what he has to say. And again, in what language to say? I doubt that the Huns understood the Armenian language. So, the messenger had to learn the message of help in what language? Or is it still written?
        And then, according to the traditional version of the story, the Huns were a little busy. In the Catalan fields. The place and day of the battle, which is considered by many historians as one of the greatest in the history of Europe, is not exactly known. According to the assumption of the historian Bury, it could happen on the 20th of June, 451, which is generally accepted by subsequent historians.
        That is, it turns out that these two battles (the exact dates and places of which are unknown), according to historians, occurred almost simultaneously. And both refer to the "Huns."
        1. Karen
          Karen 1 November 2017 10: 41 New
          0
          It’s not just that the foreign invaders burned all the books ... Later, some individuals realized that the Armenians would pay a lot of money for their priceless books ...
        2. Karen
          Karen 1 November 2017 15: 06 New
          0
          I once wrote somewhere ... With the White Huns we have been allies since prehistoric times - when they sailed to them through the Caspian to fight together against the Persians.
          Letters in many languages ​​could then be written (then we and the Khazars already gave our alphabet for writing)
          _______
          According to Avarayr, the Persians probably have much preserved ... they will need to find out. The other day I’ll go to historians to clarify ...
          1. alexsipin
            alexsipin 1 November 2017 20: 16 New
            0
            Quote: Karen
            (later we and the Khazars gave their alphabet for writing


            Everything is becoming more and more wonderful. The Khazars turned out to be writing in Armenian letters.
            1. Karen
              Karen 2 November 2017 01: 43 New
              0
              Quote: alexsipin
              Quote: Karen
              (later we and the Khazars gave their alphabet for writing


              Everything is becoming more and more wonderful. The Khazars turned out to be writing in Armenian letters.

              Any other information?
              1. alexsipin
                alexsipin 10 November 2017 19: 50 New
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                Quote: Karen
                Quote: alexsipin
                Quote: Karen
                (later we and the Khazars gave their alphabet for writing


                Everything is becoming more and more wonderful. The Khazars turned out to be writing in Armenian letters.

                Any other information?

                Why would the Khazars, people of Turkic origin, whose elite knew Hebrew well, and read and written in Hebrew, study the Armenian letter? Here is an example of a Khazar letter: Do you see Armenian there?
                1. Karen
                  Karen 14 December 2017 17: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: alexsipin
                  Quote: Karen
                  Quote: alexsipin
                  Quote: Karen
                  (later we and the Khazars gave their alphabet for writing


                  Everything is becoming more and more wonderful. The Khazars turned out to be writing in Armenian letters.

                  Any other information?

                  Why would the Khazars, people of Turkic origin, whose elite knew Hebrew well, and read and written in Hebrew, study the Armenian letter? Here is an example of a Khazar letter: Do you see Armenian there?

                  Good question ... From what year did the elite of the Khazars, people of Turkic origin, turn to Hebrew with Judaism? Up to this point - you do not allow the option that they turned to us with a request to adapt our alphabet for their language?
  30. Seal
    Seal 30 October 2017 15: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: genisis
    Kars, Karl, Kars province, which is now in Turkey.

    The railway (and surrounding areas) Karl, which now runs along the Armenian-Turkish border on the Armenian territory, this "genesis" appealing to you apparently has in the territory of the former Erivan province. While in fact, in fact, it passed through the territory of the Kars province, Karl, the Kars province. That is, part of the Kars province, Karl, Kars province, albeit insignificant, but nonetheless, is now part of Armenia. What, Carl, is a certain “genesis” turning to you that apparently does not suspect, Carl.
  31. Karen
    Karen 30 October 2017 18: 20 New
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    For a conscript.

    I’ll supplement it here. Then there was no power system ... "A man with a gun" could be like Sashko beat in Ukraine.
    _____
    And the fact that the Russians left here is from the nightmare that was happening with us for the entire population ... How we joked viciously: "soon the news will be only for the president remaining in the republic"
    1. Seal
      Seal 1 November 2017 09: 09 New
      0
      this is from the nightmare that was happening in relation to the entire population ...

      But did someone create this whole nightmare? It’s not one president himself who has nightmare all.
      1. Karen
        Karen 1 November 2017 11: 00 New
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        Quote: Seal
        this is from the nightmare that was happening in relation to the entire population ...

        But did someone create this whole nightmare? It’s not one president himself who has nightmare all.

        "our president" was far from ours ... the institution of Jewish wives worked here one hundred percent. And he, and the mayor of Yerevan (it’s good that the Minister of Internal Affairs shot the last one, grabbing some bills for mentoring), and a lot more ...
        It’s just that nerves explode when one recalls his statements about the “need” to leave Karabakh.
        ... Here is your Dimon why said "there is no money, but you hold on"? From the fact that Sobchak with L.T-P. were together at one lecture by puppeteers, they were written down in notes. "Our" 20 years before Dimon advised contacting his family and neighbors on the landing ...
  32. Felix99
    Felix99 20 December 2017 09: 22 New
    0
    Quote: genisis
    22-year-old student Khachik Zakaryan, who tried to capture the clashes of the demonstrators with the troops.

    Clashes? Beating the unarmed? During the clashes, they probably called on to give flowers to the soldiers of the explosives? Asked to protect from pogroms in Baku? Or attacked the soldiers guarding public order? How many soldiers and military officers died as a result of the riots at that time? Ferghana, Nakhichevan, Karabakh, Osh, Sukhumi, Batumi, etc. We know, they flew.