Military Review

For the hundredth time about the short

389
After reading once again another article (with a bunch of comments) on the resolution / non-resolution of a short-barrel, I decided to write myself. Bleeding!


A little about myself (so that there were no cries about not knowing the topic, etc.). From my military experience of 3 of the year (1993-95) I served in special units of the Russian Interior Ministry for the protection of special work sites, important state facilities and support of special and military cargo. During this period, all sorts of events happened in the country, because of which I had to wear a regular PM around the clock for 2 years. It looked like this: they gave out a gun in accordance with the order and guard it as you wish (safes, of course, were not issued). Before entering the guard checked availability weaponscartridges. All this was done to ensure that the alarm l / s arrived not in part to the weapon, but immediately to the combat positions. Realities showed that at that time it was probably the best option. Shooting was 2 times a week, cartridges were given a lot. Then there was a service in a different kind of troops, there were a lot of firing / ammunition (the placement in the same area as the RAV warehouse), but, thank God, there was no more experience in storing pistols at home.



This experience allows me to draw some of my conclusions about the short-barrel and the problems they cause.

I will go on points.

1. Opinions of citizens are spreading in three categories: a) the threat to life; b) the threat to property; c) “I'm with a gun”. The first two categories are simpler and more logical (you can discuss, at least), but the third ... The third category confidently thinks that you can swing the trunk left / right, not be patient, answer: "Yes, he disgraced my wife in every way !!" At the same time, for some reason, they immediately forget about the opposite situation: that the other side may also have a weapon, and also that they will have to answer under the law for the accomplished.

2. I also want to immediately divide the threat to life and property — not by value, but by transience. The threat to life arises instantly; the threat to property will be extended over time. Even untrained shooters will have enough reaction to countering the threat to property; with the threat of life, there may not be enough time even for a professional shooter who is constantly practicing (there was such a thing, alas).

3. Legislation on self-defense. People who believe that it will be possible to kill for a stolen bucket of potatoes from the garden (figuratively!) And cite the US example (where you can shoot anyone who invades your house), they forget that then there is a court in the USA. And if the jury decides that the threat was insufficient and the weapon was used disproportionately to the attack, then this could be from 15 years to the tower. Exactly the same thing will be with us: life will make, they did not come from this noodle.

4. "No one in Russia voluntarily legalizes normal short-barriers, because an armed citizen can ask questions and the security forces will suddenly become completely useless." The US experience clearly shows that asking an armed citizen, of course, can, but not for long. The police will be killed ... Including for this reason, none of the cases of massacres in the United States was prevented by the citizens themselves - with their over-armed. About cops in the United States, where 250.000.000 trunks, for some reason not forgotten. And the cars therefore stop there only from the back: it is extremely inconvenient to shoot back, and they are forced to put their hands on the dashboard, and try not to obey ... It’s not about our cops. Offhand: "Policemen in the United States shot and killed 256 people in the first three months of 2016." I was interested and spent as much as half an hour searching for: November 16 was a citizen of the United States who was shot dead by police in the US for 1000 a year. ”



Three people a day, at least at the hands of the police ...

“According to them,” the overwhelming majority of people who died at the hands of police officers belong to one of three categories: they had a weaponthey suffered from mental disorders or they fled when the police told them to stop"According to official data, 564 people from 965 shot by the law enforcement officers were carrying pistols or rifles, and 281 - knives, toy guns, which could be taken as real or" other dangerous objects. "In 75% of cases, the police or other people to whom they came to help were attacked by lawbreakers. "

The same will happen with us: the security forces will be forced to shoot at ANY armed man at the slightest insubordination to them.

5. First, supporters of the short-haul cause a bunch of cases of attacks on women / old people / disabled people, then sharply cut off these categories of citizens with offers to systematically attend shooting classes at least once a month. Yes, it is quite reasonable and necessary, but for our average citizens it is impracticable. Taking into account the requirements for equipment of the worlds, the discovery of additional worlds due to high costs and low incomes of the population does not loom even on the horizon. In our area, for example, 4 of the world, but all of them are located in the regional center (from 200 to 300 km). Is it possible for a named group to travel there regularly? Not. This also includes problems with weapons culture, which is not, including due to problems with shooting galleries.

6. The examples of small / tiny countries like Switzerland / Israel / Moldova / others cannot directly overlap our realities precisely because of their small size. There is enough power structures, and citizens armed with pistols, which is why they are not used. When I go to our regional center, I pass three Israelis in a day. About the Urals / Siberia / DV in general I am silent: the village councils have more area there than these states. Therefore, we can only be based on the experience of the United States, and there problems with the possession of weapons - a breakthrough.

7. Why is it necessary to protect the house is short, the supporters of it, too, can not clearly explain. At the same time, they all agree that it is much easier to hit / hit with the grab bag of an attacker from an 12 caliber weapon than from a pistol. In principle, after some revision of the legislation, the ideal option for self-defense of a household is 12 caliber.

8. Keeping weapons is generally a song. Supporters of the short-barreled amicably forget about the sharp increase in the risk of possession of weapons. This includes the risks of theft of weapons from both the house / car and the owner’s body. The gun has always been, is and will be a desirable booty of the criminal world. Unlike the iPhone, it is always in the price. Honestly, I was most stressed: you can’t just drink at the company, you can’t reduce the distance to people less than 2 meters, you can’t just enter the dimmed entrance (although you know it as flaky, but dumb), You can not leave him at home just like that (no one has canceled the children). And then the opposite situation: if you do not carry it with you all the time, then at the right moment it will not be at hand.

9. Unbalanced / Scumbag. Guarantees that the weapon will not get to them, no. And here the proposals on the abolition of the limits of self-defense can play into their hands. He killed the disliked, called the police and: "He attacked me - I was self-defense." Options abyss. Alas, there are no ways to exclude the legal possession of such people.

10. The price of the weapon. To count on a sharp influx of imported weapons is nonsense. Transportation, customs duties, VAT, certification, cheating trade will make it too expensive and non-mass. So it is with hunting now: Italian BBM is in stores and on hand, but there are dozens of times less than Izhey. Our weapon? Yes, there are some samples of civilian weapons, but I don’t presume to predict how much it will cost if there is a mass demand. But what will be cheap is hardly ...

11. Favorite supporters of a short-barrel: “On the roads, cars / kitchen knives / broken bottles / etc.” far more people are killed than from legal trunks! ”

Short:

a) everything named was originally intended for completely different purposes, and only a serious violation of safety rules and use leads to death (drinking in someone else’s apartment with an unfamiliar company and getting a bottle on the head is also a security violation). A pistol was originally intended only and solely for one thing - murder, this is its only purpose;

b) incomparable number. If you interpolate the number of cars (leaving the number of dead on the roads) to the number of registered trunks, it can be that the cars are much more harmless than weapons. “The number of casualties in the period from 1968-th to 2011 year exceeds the cumulative loss in all the wars that have ever been fought by America. According to the Politifact project, during this period 1,4 million deaths occurred as a result of the use of firearms, while in all armed conflicts, from the war of independence before the last Iraqi campaign, 1,2 million people died. From the beginning of 2015, 294 shooting occurred in a crowded place in the USA, characterized as "incidents" in which four people and more were killed or injured. According to the US Department of Justice and External Relations Council, for the period from 2001 to 2011. on average, 11 385 people died annually in the United States as a result of the use of firearms ”(02.10.2015, BBC article).

“Washington, December 21 2015 / Corr. TASS Dmitry Kirsanov. The number of people annually dying in the United States as a result of the use of firearms for the first time equaled the number of victims of road traffic accidents. This news have spread the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) ”(approximately in 34000 cases). This was achieved ... no, not by restrictions on weapons: “According to the TsKPZ experts, the situation they revealed is primarily due to a sharp reduction in the number of people dying in the United States on the roads. This was achieved by tightening various security measures designed to significantly reduce the number of possible accidents. ”

PS The people in the comments were outraged, they say, it is not clear: what positions the author is worth! Let me explain: I am for the revision of the law on self-defense, I am for self-defense using weapons, but only long-barreled, I am categorically against short barrels.

PPS I recommend everyone to read the classic of American literature, M. Twain, especially his “Lightly”. There, everything is soundly and truthfully written about our capitalism (wild enough) and about how we will have a short-haired trunk.

Materials used:
http://www.bbc.com/russian/international/2015/10/151002_usa_violence_statistics
http://tass.ru/proisshestviya/2544872
https://www.obozrevatel.com/abroad/62310-v-ssha-politsejskie-zastrelili-za-god-pochti-tyisyachu-chelovek.htm
https://mikle1.livejournal.com/6339469.html
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  1. Grandfather
    Grandfather 20 October 2017 06: 01
    15
    After reading once again another article (with a bunch of comments) on the resolution / non-resolution of a short-barrel, I decided to write myself. Bleeding!
    it’s boiling to read headings about the “short barrel” ... meaningless and merciless ... what are you talking about? in Russia, short-trunks ... ??? Do you think the authorities do not understand at all? is it after any coups and maidan in the neighborhood? fool something, but the power will not shoot itself in the leg (head) ... so leave your fantasies to yourself (adherents of the storage-bearing)
    1. 210ox
      210ox 20 October 2017 06: 21
      +5
      Unfortunately, lobbyists often turn the power on us. Including those who are not slaves. In fact, they are owners of arms stores and manufacturers. The main thing is profit.
      Quote: Dead Day
      After reading once again another article (with a bunch of comments) on the resolution / non-resolution of a short-barrel, I decided to write myself. Bleeding!
      it’s boiling to read headings about the “short barrel” ... meaningless and merciless ... what are you talking about? in Russia, short-trunks ... ??? Do you think the authorities do not understand at all? is it after any coups and maidan in the neighborhood? fool something, but the power will not shoot itself in the leg (head) ... so leave your fantasies to yourself (adherents of the storage-bearing)
      1. RussKamikadZE
        RussKamikadZE 20 October 2017 07: 49
        +4
        Well, yes, why do we need extra jobs in the arms business. Damned kapitalyugi! All for profit. wassat
    2. Titsen
      Titsen 20 October 2017 07: 10
      17
      Quote: Dead Day
      the power will not shoot itself ... so leave your fantasies to yourself (adherents of tearing-storage)


      This is the most correct comment.

      And the author who wrote the above article is another meritor of this very power of ours!

      Storyteller experiences wearing, storing and using a short barrel!
      1. bk316
        bk316 20 October 2017 11: 01
        22
        This is the most correct comment.

        This is the most idiotic comment. I explain.
        When (if) it comes to an armed uprising against the government, then the long barrel will be much more effective. But HE IS PERMITTED ALREADY NOW.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 25 October 2017 16: 49
          0
          ... for barricades, yes ..
      2. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 20 October 2017 17: 49
        +6
        Titsen. I would call you right, but they can ban me! I don’t like to live in a country calmly, I ask you to Ukraine. There democracy won and soon you can walk with a grenade launcher. The author as if removed everything from my language, just a thought I reported a lot more cultured and polite than I could. When I was working at the GBR I had seen enough of all sorts of hamsters (office moths) who bought up injuries and pneumatics, and then began to churn out (notice, not necessarily from the blue, they just started to see themselves as Harry’s Dirty minimum) .And here some extra-dodged people also wanted a short-barrel. You want trunks-forward on permanent residence even to mattresses, even to Moldova — I want my children to walk along the streets just like I did, and not move in armored suits and helmets.
        1. saruman
          saruman 24 October 2017 13: 33
          +1
          Quote: zadorin1974
          And here some especially-dodged also wanted a short-barrel. Want trunks-forward on permanent residence even to mattresses, even to Moldova — I want my children, just like me, to walk along the streets calmly and not move in armored suits and helmets.

          For some reason, you need to bring everything to an absurdity. Not cured youthful maximalism, or what? Who told you that everyone will take advantage of the right to weapons, and even more so the government will allow everyone to sell pistols and revolvers on shelves in supermarkets? Yes, I agree that the US experience does not suit us, because for most legal weapons there is virtually no control. In a “secret” I’ll say that in our country control is purely formal, there is a place to work ... Moreover, with the existing system of acquiring the right to long-barreled rifled weapons and obtaining the same right to rifled short-barreled weapons, none of the inhabitants even won't notice. Nothing by and large will change, except for the additional right of the Citizen. Therefore, most arguments, both opponents and defenders of the right to a short barrel, are not valid.
          I remember how, at the end of the Soviet regime, people were afraid of knives (even well-sharpened kitchen knives). Go to the store, you will see on sale even combat knives, certified as a household. And where are the mountains of corpses from them. As they were killed by the kitchen men, it continues. "Military weapons - lowering the fence!" "Combat cartridges (example: 5.45x39) - lowering the fencing!" "They are buying" military weapons "frost-bitten militarists, they will move off their roof and begin to shoot everyone!" Well, they are selling now, from the warehouses "fenced-off" AK, AKM, SVT, PPSh and even a machine gun "Maxim", cartridges from AK-74 (5.45x39) are fired at the civilized - what has changed? Has anyone noticed the difference?
          1. SERGUS
            SERGUS 24 October 2017 16: 20
            +2
            Quote: saruman
            Go to the store, you will see on sale even combat knives, certified as a household. And where are the mountains of corpses from them.

            From the knives there is no mountain of corpses, just yesterday, some kind of psycho injured a leading woman with a knife on Echo of Moscow, plus a guard in his hand, and that’s all, two wounded! And if he had a gun, there would be 5-10 corpses!
            Quote: saruman
            Well, they are selling now, from the warehouses "fenced-off" AK, AKM, SVT, PPSh and even a machine gun "Maxim", cartridges from AK-74 (5.45x39) are fired at the civilized - what has changed?

            Nothing has changed here, because no one rolls the Maxim with them, and they will always carry the short barrel with them!
            1. saruman
              saruman 24 October 2017 17: 01
              +1
              Quote: SERGUS
              From the knives there is no mountain of corpses, just yesterday, some kind of psycho injured a leading woman with a knife on Echo of Moscow, plus a guard in his hand, and that’s all, two wounded! And if he had a gun, there would be 5-10 corpses!

              I do not see mountains of corpses. There are psychos everywhere. For example, China, local psychos arrange mass killings with an ordinary kitchen knife-hatchet, or a can of gasoline. You can google it. Let's ban, as in medieval Okinawa, knives, and we will issue them against receipt. If a person plans to kill someone, he will find a way, and he will find a weapon.
              I repeat once again, legal weapons will not affect the criminal situation in the country. It will only additionally give the rights to an adequate part of the population and increase overall civil responsibility. Among owners-citizens of legal weapons, i.e. hunters and amateur athletes, responsibility and skills for using weapons are much more developed than in the Armed Forces and law enforcement agencies. I know what I'm writing. Only there, incidents with weapons are carefully hidden, and everything like that with civilian weapons immediately swells.
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 24 October 2017 17: 42
                +1
                Quote: saruman
                Among owners-citizens of legal weapons, i.e. hunters and amateur athletes, responsibility is much more developed

                I agree, but among the owners of injuries, there is often no responsibility, it seems that they are buying them in order to show that it is cool.
                1. saruman
                  saruman 24 October 2017 18: 01
                  +2
                  Quote: SERGUS
                  Agreed, but among owners of injuries, there is often no responsibility, it seems that they are buying them in order to show that it is cool.

                  Traumatic weapons must be prohibited!
                  1. SERGUS
                    SERGUS 25 October 2017 09: 35
                    +1
                    Quote: saruman
                    Traumatic weapons must be prohibited!

                    You have strange logic, to forbid injuries, and to allow fighting in their place, oh, yes, yes, yes, fighting is more serious, everyone will be afraid to use it again, whether it’s an injury case, shot a man in the head, a corpse, okay, it's trauma, it's not a weapon.
      3. stroybat ZABVO
        stroybat ZABVO 21 October 2017 16: 03
        10

        Here, I took it out of my pocket and took a picture ..... You say that you can’t give a Russian a gun, a revolver? Oh well. But on this site there are many who do not live in Russia and have weapons that all drunks and all were shot? Especially, I emphasized, touches that if the bandits find out that I "have them", they will "hunt" for me. Gee! Here we have, in Argentina, by law, on the web page, state !, my data are published, where I live and what and how many weapons I have. Something I don’t see the line to attack me, although I am old and walk with a cane. And the bandits in Argentina have long worn bronics, pissing bastards!
        1. your1970
          21 October 2017 21: 33
          +2
          1) why do you need 2 trunks in your pockets? One is not enough for self-defense? I grazed on such hands to live in Argentina
          2) the wearing of bronik bandits confirms the first point
          Z.Y. it's just a war going on
        2. igorka357
          igorka357 22 October 2017 10: 15
          +2
          He took out two trunks from his pockets, it can be seen that in your Argentina your situevina is not simple, as many as two trunks ... laughing ! He contradicted himself! When you walk down the street and they shoot you from the back to the back of the head, your wallet and your two trunks will move from your pockets to the thugs’ pockets, and in their gang there will be two more thugs with trunks .. .from grandfather with a cane, so to speak!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. stroybat ZABVO
              stroybat ZABVO 22 October 2017 17: 22
              +7

              "! He contradicted himself! When you walk down the street and they shoot you from the back in the back of the head, then your wallet and your two trunks will move from your pockets, into the pockets of thugs, and in their gang there will be two more thugs with trunks. ..from grandfather with a cane, so to speak! "

              I have been carrying a “baby” for thirty (30) years; four times (4) he has helped me out over the years. But you can’t understand it, never. From the word never.

              This one saved my life once, at night, at the railway crossing, from armed robbery.
              But it will not even fit into your brain.
              1. your1970
                22 October 2017 18: 47
                +2
                we did not hear the answer to the question - why TWO carry the barrel with you ??? !!! in one, ammunition is enough - to get rid of a couple of bandits. Or all the same - NOT enough ONE ??
                1. stroybat ZABVO
                  stroybat ZABVO 22 October 2017 23: 02
                  +7
                  "we did not hear the answer to the question"
                  Wow, you are "WE".
                  Yes, you are darkness, but we are a military.
                  "Why TWO barrels to carry with you ??? !!! in one cartridge there is enough ammunition - to get rid of a couple of bandits. Or all the same - NOT ONE enough ??"
                  I understand that you are the author of this article, and your question exposes your ignorance of the issue of the use and purpose of firearms in everyday conditions.
                  Firstly, a revolver, this is a fairly "trouble-free" weapon, ready for use.
                  Secondly, a revolver with a 2 "long barrel, this is a very compact weapon, convenient for hidden carrying.
                  Thirdly, a revolver, in domestic conditions it is better to wear without one cartridge in front of the barrel. For safety.

                  Based on my observations and experience, two or three shots are enough for self-defense. The third bullet in the corpse will be difficult for you to prove that it was self-defense. If the bandits, well, suppose there are more than two, and are all armed, your corpse will no longer have time to shoot. Fearfully? Do not be scared! Break through!
                  Targeted shooting from a revolver with a barrel of two inches, at distances of more than two-five meters, this, as you explain, mix chickens. Well, if you shoot the escaping bandit in the back, you will be convicted of murder, and it does not matter what he did.
                  Cartridges I prefer "unswitched" and "expansive". I mean, bullets. They have a smaller rebound, which is very, well, very important when shooting in a domestic environment for others. Secondly, they have less penetrating effect. For others it is important, just important and that’s it. This is later, let the surgeon or pathologist pick them out of Honduras. Honduras, Pedro, Sergey, Pascual are worth it. But you are against it.
                  So. What are we talking about? Oh yes!
                  I rarely wear a second gun, only when the “fifth point” whispers: “terrible adventures await you.” For 12 years, it came in handy once and saved my life in a night robbery at the railway crossing. There was one gangster, he had 9 mm. Clear light that the power of this pistol is not comparable with a small revolver, this pistol can probably be classified as "army". I "score" 8-10 rounds of ammunition; this, as I said earlier, is more than enough for self-defense in the domestic environment. Yes, the spring does not sit, but this is not interesting to you.
                  1. your1970
                    23 October 2017 11: 30
                    +2
                    Thank you for the "constructive" answer like "fuck." And a lecture about the "delights of a revolver" - apparently the will is such in Argentina that to join normal discussion - nonsense.
                    I repeat - I I would not like to live in Argentina precisely because of the need to constantly carry a pistol / revolver with you, and sometimes both ... This is a war, when a person is forced to carry weapons all the time ... Thank God, we haven’t come to this before ...
                    1. stroybat ZABVO
                      stroybat ZABVO 25 October 2017 18: 24
                      +1
                      "apparently the will is such in Argentina that to engage in normal discussion is nonsense."
                      Well, darling, what is it you, right? Calling for an intellectual duel, and you come without weapons? According to your article, I had a different impression.
                      The word "army" means a group of armed people. You reminded me of the story that happened to my father, he was then a roofing felon major, and maybe a lieutenant colonel, when he taught at KVVPAU, he called one cadet: "adversary," as a joke, during an argument. The cadet filed a complaint at the party committee for the insult. My father cited me as an example that even a child knows that an “adversary” is an adversary, one who is against. Although, I don’t understand much of modern Russian. "Louboutins", "Dorshirak" ?? I don’t even know what they mean. There is no such word in the dictionary as "PR", "PR".

                      "I repeat - I would NOT want to live in Argentina"

                      Yes, that too makes you so? Although, what is it me, huh? Come on, will I invite you? They eat a lot of meat, good wine, kind, smiling people, a climate for every taste: from penguins in Antarctica to tropical butterflies the size of a hat. The mountains? There they are Cordiers! Are you a communist? Che Guevara was born here. Are you a fan of the Nazis? There are whole villages where the Fuhrer’s birthday is celebrated. Are you Jewish? So here are your entire areas. As I understand it, these are the Jews who, even before the formation of Israel in Palestine, wanted to create Israel in Argentina. Do you like football? Maradona and Messi are here. Beautiful women? Well, there, Claudia Schifner, Maxim married the Dutch prince. Well, make a noise if you come. You, in general, hint to me what interests you, I will try to advise.
              2. Old warrior
                Old warrior 23 October 2017 22: 45
                +2
                Reasonedly. As the Chinese say: "if the sword helped you only once, then it must be worn all your life" (c). I envy you for good.
        3. Ace Tambourine
          Ace Tambourine 22 October 2017 10: 49
          +2
          Well, I don’t know ... I’m driving my working VAZ 2104, so I have 38m long drills for a perforation, a meter or more long, the gun rests if you load it into the tower ..
        4. SERGUS
          SERGUS 24 October 2017 16: 28
          +1
          Quote: stroybat ZABVO
          But on this site there are many who do not live in Russia and have weapons that all drunks and all were shot?

          There are no drunks, it’s just sad that in Argentina, as in the wild west, it’s better not to lean out of the street without a trunk.
          1. stroybat ZABVO
            stroybat ZABVO 25 October 2017 19: 08
            0
            It’s just sad that in Argentina, like in the wild west, it’s better not to stick out onto the street without a trunk. !!
            here is another intellectual fighter! why did you come to a duel without weapons, huh? You are our sad! So where? Where? did you find out IT? From my words? Want off your feet?
            In Argentina, for forty million inhabitants, 979 legal users of firearms, including the army, navy, aviation, gendarmes, police, private security companies, the WWII, collectors, hunters and others like me.
            1. SERGUS
              SERGUS 25 October 2017 19: 47
              0
              Quote: stroybat ZABVO
              So where? Where? did you find out IT?

              Answer me the question: how many times have you used your weapon?
            2. your1970
              25 October 2017 21: 46
              +1
              1)
              Quote: stroybat ZABVO
              So where? Where? did you find out IT? From my words?
              from your words, exclusively from your words -
              Quote: stroybat ZABVO
              I have been carrying a “baby” for thirty (30) years; four times (4) he has helped me out over the years.
              - you have to daily carry the trunk with you for 30 years, moreover, you have to periodically carry the second trunk with you - awaiting a serious attack
              According to your words - every 40th is armed with legal weapons ....
              therefore, 22 people died in one whole city .... not because of the threats of murder / robbery - but because of conflicts that are almost domestic. This is just one of the reasons why I am against the Constitutional Court here.

              "Only in buenos aires from 1997 to 2005, 31 thousand people were killed from firearms. 25% of the murders were committed during robberies, the rest is the result of conflicts, accidents and suicides. In September 2004, in a district of Buenos Aires, a 15-year-old teenager opened fire on his classmates with a pistol. Three of them died, five were injured. After this tragedy, civil society organizations and those affected by the armed violence created La Red Argentina para el Desarme, an organization that urges citizens to abandon the storage and carrying of weapons. The government did not disregard this civic initiative. From June to December 2007, a large-scale disarmament campaign took place in Argentina: weapons owners were offered to surrender personal weapons and ammunition for cash compensation in the amount of $ 50-150. Today in Argentina, about 84% of citizens believe that gun ownership is not a guarantee of personal security.
              1. stroybat ZABVO
                stroybat ZABVO 26 October 2017 00: 44
                +1
                Oops! I take my words back that you, as an intellectual fighter, came unarmed. Excuse me.
                Well, then it means that these are murders committed with firearms during this period, and it includes all murders, suicides, accidental killings, murders committed by police officers, moreover, all police killings here, guilty and innocent, and, clear light, criminal. So, if you take for 100% all these killings by legal users of weapons, and this includes the army and the police and people like me, then of these 100% killings committed with firearms, only 1,5% are committed by legal users. These 1.5% include all murders, accidental, suicides, criminal and self-defense.
                1. SERGUS
                  SERGUS 26 October 2017 09: 45
                  +1
                  Quote: stroybat ZABVO
                  I take my words back that you, as an intellectual fighter, came unarmed.

                  Quote: stroybat ZABVO
                  why did you come to a duel without weapons, huh?

                  Sorry, well, according to your words, I get the impression that you are another lover to resolve any dispute using weapons.
      4. serezhasoldatow
        serezhasoldatow 21 October 2017 22: 24
        +3
        Are you a realist? Where did they send you from? Most likely the gun was seen only in the picture and had no experience from its use. Article is good. +++
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. dmitry.kashkaryow
      dmitry.kashkaryow 23 October 2017 12: 09
      +2
      The Korotkostvol does not threaten the authorities in any way! On the contrary, it makes it easier to use against a pile of fools with short-barrels of any weapon, from machine guns to tanks! On the ridge of Nenka, the Maidan happened when the people were as unarmed as the Russian now. Three dozen canopy can always be found if you wish!
  2. Basil50
    Basil50 20 October 2017 06: 19
    33
    The US country took place as a racist state robbing neighbors and more. And for some reason, it is always deduced as an example for RUSSIA. There are countries where weapons are much larger * per capita *, the same Canada, or Switzerland. No, a country with a racist ideology is not necessarily taken as a standard.
    Happy opponents of arms and the law on the right to defense were never beaten, robbed, and their children were not taken hostage, lucky. But what to do to those who are really threatened? The police only in the movies and protects and sometimes puts gangsters.
    Everything in life is different, the care for the life and health of thieves and bandits is so comprehensive that the police arrest, and the judges condemn anyone who dares to defend themselves or loved ones.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 20 October 2017 06: 24
      11
      Well, that’s what you need to do so that thieves and bandits answer in full and the police flew at the first call .. But do not think about how bad it is that I do not have a pistol in a holster .. This is not for you, but for those in power.
      Quote: Vasily50
      The US country took place as a racist state robbing neighbors and more. And for some reason, it is always deduced as an example for RUSSIA. There are countries where weapons are much larger * per capita *, the same Canada, or Switzerland. No, a country with a racist ideology is not necessarily taken as a standard.
      Happy opponents of arms and the law on the right to defense were never beaten, robbed, and their children were not taken hostage, lucky. But what to do to those who are really threatened? The police only in the movies and protects and sometimes puts gangsters.
      Everything in life is different, the care for the life and health of thieves and bandits is so comprehensive that the police arrest, and the judges condemn anyone who dares to defend themselves or loved ones.
      1. a.boroda61
        a.boroda61 22 October 2017 10: 24
        +3
        so with opponents ... children in England study and dad is a grandfather trunk and so has ..
        1. your1970
          22 October 2017 21: 57
          +1
          I am an ardent opponent of the Constitutional Court - and my children are studying in a banal city secondary school of the regional center in the Volga region ....
    2. Titsen
      Titsen 20 October 2017 07: 12
      +5
      Quote: Vasily50
      The US country took place as a racist state robbing neighbors and more. And for some reason, it is always deduced as an example for RUSSIA. There are countries where weapons are much larger * per capita *, the same Canada, or Switzerland. No, a country with a racist ideology is not necessarily taken as a standard.
      Happy opponents of arms and the law on the right to defense were never beaten, robbed, and their children were not taken hostage, lucky. But what to do to those who are really threatened? The police only in the movies and protects and sometimes puts gangsters.
      Everything in life is different, the care for the life and health of thieves and bandits is so comprehensive that the police arrest, and the judges condemn anyone who dares to defend themselves or loved ones.


      For the sake of this, only one series of pi decs about cops has been spinning for 25 years on all channels in a circle and without a break!
    3. Per se.
      Per se. 20 October 2017 07: 42
      20
      Quote: Vasily50
      But what about those who are really threatened?
      First, they need to part with the illusions that they threaten only those who have no weapons. Secondly, as it has been confirmed many times, many are not hungry for the weapons themselves, from which the shops are bursting, but the right to use them to defeat, and so that they have nothing for it, moreover, firmly believing that weapons and such a right will only from them. It turns out that a weapon is not a problem to buy, no one can prohibit self-defense and has not prohibited it, but there is no right to kill oneself and with impunity, personally assessing the degree of threat. About this speech, and, the most vehement supporters of such rights, as a rule, immediately vulgarly quote "wisdom" from some scumbag, a gangster like Al Capone (about a "good" word with a gun). If, Dmitri, the problem is in the system, then the “Lynch Law” will not solve the problem in the weapon. Yes, there are countries in which peace and silence, and weapons among the population, as mentioned Switzerland, so there would be peace and silence without weapons. There is a world arms lobby, and it does not care about the safety of citizens, not only in Russia, but everywhere, including the United States. The sixs of this weapon lobby will sing with sirens, about the "right to arms", about "not slaves" and "good word with a pistol", do not believe them. We need to think about Russia, about the improvement of our laws in the direction of their clarity and justice, professionalism and decency of judges and the police, increasing social security, welfare, education and culture in our society. Otherwise, there will always be a Kalash on your pistol, and the lone hero will not defend himself against the gang of terrorists. Moreover, while increasing impoverishment and bitterness in society, the man who “lit up” his trunk would rather not protect himself, but would become like the one who showed his wallet full of bucks. Such people would rather be killed, without romanticism and heroics, they would stick an awl from the back, and they would take away the weapon. In a sick society, weapons can only deal with the consequences, exacerbating the problem itself.
      1. saruman
        saruman 24 October 2017 17: 14
        +1
        Quote: Per se.
        There is a world arms lobby, and it does not care about the safety of citizens, not only in Russia, but everywhere, including the United States. The sixes of this arms lobby will sing about sirens, about the “right to arms”, about “not slaves” and “kind words with a gun”, do not believe them

        There is no arms lobby in Russia, there is only a small group of enthusiasts who love weapons and hunters. Our weapons factories, in fact, put us on the civilian weapons market, for example, go to the Hansa and see for yourself. Tales about the arms lobby tell housewives.
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 25 October 2017 18: 28
          +1
          Quote: saruman
          Tell tales about the weapons lobby to housewives.
          You, apparently, didn’t really understand the meaning, and here our gunsmiths? Sorry, I don’t write fairy tales, and I don’t draw comics to make it clearer for both amateur enthusiasts and housewives. It doesn't bother me to love weapons, neither yang, nor yin, nor, especially, crap. I hope you too. Re-read everything else above, I will not repeat, all the best, Roman.
    4. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 10: 26
      +6
      Quote: Vasily50
      Happy opponents of arms and the law on the right to defense were never beaten, robbed, and their children were not taken hostage, lucky.

      Quote: Vasily50
      Everything in life is different, the care for the life and health of thieves and bandits is so comprehensive that the police arrest, and the judges condemn anyone who dares to defend themselves or loved ones.

      Thieves took his children hostage, and he, like Rimbaud, took his PM and shot the whole gang - just another scenario for a Hollywood action movie. The fact that the short-barrel will cause more problems than it will solve them with the author agrees, and that they will soon acquire all sorts of aggressive personalities than ordinary housewives, too. I often agree with the fact that the work of our police is disgusting with you, so I see a way out in its reform and not in changing the sign and form, and especially not in resolving the short barrel - this seemingly easy solution will give rise to more problems.
      Quote: Vasily50
      There are countries where weapons are much larger * per capita *, the same Canada, or Switzerland. No, a country with a racist ideology is not necessarily taken as a standard.

      Well, all the same, in Switzerland and Canada there is a different ideology, more calm morals, unlike those in our Caucasus, for example.
      1. megavolt823
        megavolt823 20 October 2017 11: 25
        0
        mores of peoples or people, not at all. nationality, lifestyle. this is another matter. if a person is engaged in reindeer husbandry, hunting. and lives in a deserted part of the country. then yes ! and if the city, or dense buildings of the settlement. then no! a knife, like a gun does not kill. but a man and a knife or a barrel, this combination kills. hi
        1. SERGUS
          SERGUS 20 October 2017 11: 37
          +3
          Quote: megavolt823
          if a person is engaged in reindeer husbandry, hunting. and lives in a deserted part of the country. then yes ! and if the city, or dense buildings of the settlement. then no!

          Hunting weapons and city residents will let him, but walking with a gun as if in the wild west ... I agree with you, we do not need it!
    5. your1970
      22 October 2017 14: 49
      +3
      after reading a bunch of comments, I realized that in order to fight off all the gopniks of the country, honest citizens do not need a cop, this is what they need:
  3. kudma
    kudma 20 October 2017 06: 38
    +7
    Well, it started !!! Let's change the law first and see.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 20 October 2017 06: 57
      +5
      Quote: kudma
      Well, it started !!! Let's change the law first and see.

      start with the constitution ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. cedar
    cedar 20 October 2017 07: 05
    +2
    the author, why don’t you shoot yourself from anything?
    1. your1970
      20 October 2017 13: 15
      +2
      Turkish five-charge "Pegasus" - delivers geese (in spring and autumn) and hares (in winter) regularly. It’s a pretty decent gun, and it’s a pretty big shot. Tenure of 12 years, I don’t take a rifled one due to the lack of suitable game and problems with the rifled one (cartridge case, etc.)
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. BecmepH
      BecmepH 20 October 2017 08: 40
      26
      USSR and in Russia
      Soviet-Russian
      If you were going with your Seversky America ... lo and behold. I have a place there. hiding in a stranger = a good country, and observing your homeland. But when decrepitude comes, you start whining, whining, drooling snot, and want to see your homeland before death. Dumped and rejoice. And at least shoot yourself there from their Lugers and Spanish))) Colts. We nas.rat on these. We will solve our problems without you. Better focus on your pin.dosovsky problems
      1. S-kerrigan
        S-kerrigan 20 October 2017 09: 00
        11
        We nas.rat on these.

        When you really do not care, then, as a rule, they do not write anything (psychology of a healthy person)
        But when senility comes, you start whining, whining, drooling snot and you want to see your homeland before death

        How such stupid sayings got here - d-a-a-aleko not everyone breaks into nostalgia. Even differently - when all the ZBS are, then usually they don’t remember the place where the migration came from.
        Observe your homeland

        My homeland was ruined - I can calmly sweep any country, there is no more my homeland.
        Dumped and rejoice

        Dump the shit. And I left ... in the Russian Federation.

        Anyone has the right to migrate where he wants, and not live his whole life where he was born! We live in the XNUMXst century. And our house is not Russia / Belgium / China, but the whole Earth. When will you get wiser? And then there are few differences from the pan cookers - as you write that you liked Angel / Grand Canyon / Big Reef, they immediately rush into the mouth and start learning how to live and how to love Saryzhailau or Altai. That's when they say to me “how to live and whom to love,” then I start to treat in response as morons (because who else is capable of this?).
        1. BecmepH
          BecmepH 20 October 2017 09: 14
          14
          That's when they say to me “how to live and whom to love,” then I start to treat in response as morons (because who else is capable of this?).
          Only now your partner))) began to insult my homeland. On some pin.dosovsky slang called Russia and the Russians. Left his homeland and rejoice. But why bother with the country that brought you up, educated? If this person did not behave in this way (insulting), then I would not pay attention to him. I really have to fuck you with the highest bell tower. Live wherever you like. Live and yell with pleasure. And I wrote, because he insultingly called the country and the inhabitants of this country.
          1. S-kerrigan
            S-kerrigan 20 October 2017 09: 27
            +9
            Only here is your partner

            "Yours" is whose, mine? Well xs, I see him "for the first time" ... no, i.e. I read.
            Where there were insults then? I do not see them at all.
            Again from the psychology of a healthy person (and not a patient) - if a person is hurt by something on an empty (well, almost empty), it means that he has a lot of problems / complexes in the first place. A healthy person does not react to such petty attacks. This discussion is rzhachna to me - I participate in it for fun.

            Personally, I work with people from different parts of the world - and I call Kitaezy, and Kenguryatniki, and ASASHATSami. Especially in a conversation with my colleagues. Everyone immediately understands who I am talking about. And yes, a lot depends on the context in which everything is said.
            If he (the context) is not malicious, then there should be no problems.

            And now for the more important:
            Why are there no insults from my position? Why is the original comment correct in my opinion?
            Not because I live in the United States, no, I'm "dumb." He is right simply because he is right. Think about it, if you discard that very little warping phrase, then he is right. Rights throughout the rest of the text. Everything that he has spoken, and there is truth - they have blown away the country, and there battles / polemics go on the topic of weapons, and that the author of their post (these discussions in the West) does not even read / does not understand (I read, and I agree , the author of the post shows everything is very one-sided). Instead of aggression on children's trolling, it’s better to think again and try to imagine how to change the current state of affairs. If I’m not able to change anything on my own (yes, I’m not from the moon, I know how terry everything is in Russia), then look for like-minded people and still not be a passive extras. Otherwise, it will be again as in the 1991th or 1993th. I do not want to see again how Tagil tanks are pounding at administrative facilities.
            1. BecmepH
              BecmepH 20 October 2017 10: 08
              11
              He is right simply because he is right.
              Powerful argument))))
              Personally, I work with people from different parts of the world - and I call Kitaezy, and Kenguryatniki, and ASASHATSami. Especially in a conversation with my colleagues.
              That's it! In your circle!
              I wanted to further analyze your arguments))), but changed my mind. It is useless to you to prove something. You are a psychologist)))
              Leave me alone, and your white-tape vomit with you.
              1. S-kerrigan
                S-kerrigan 23 October 2017 05: 33
                +2
                and my belolentochnoy vomit with you.

                I laugh again - I don’t need to sew on the notion of a “white carpet”, apparently I have no idea what it is. However, ok, I leave it alone.
            2. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 13: 28
              +6
              Quote: S-Kerrigan
              He is right simply because he is right.

              Go through the forest simply because.
            3. Setrac
              Setrac 20 October 2017 14: 09
              +3
              Quote: S-Kerrigan
              Well xs, I see him "for the first time" ... no, i.e. I read.

              I don’t know who you see there for the first time, but you protect him as a native.
              1. S-kerrigan
                S-kerrigan 23 October 2017 05: 31
                +3
                protect him as a native.

                “Worse” - I think corny with brains and I don’t care where he (that commentator) comes from in such a context. Zadolbali to divide people on a territorial basis - what kind of craving is it to poison all those who are not from the Russian Federation ?! This I see in all comments on all topics. In the course of very few, criticism is essentially "not painful."

                Seriously, a simple person (read as "primitive") is charged with the most base moments. But when we think with our heads, then it’s more interesting - you see more important things (for yourself), and not some taunts there. Seriously, some kind of kindergarten, not adults.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 23 October 2017 09: 51
                  +1
                  Quote: S-Kerrigan
                  Zadolbali to divide people on a territorial basis - what kind of craving is it to poison all those who are not from the Russian Federation ?!

                  Who are not with us those below us?
                  People kill each other precisely on a territorial basis, what now to kiss all sorts of enemies in a hickey?
                  1. S-kerrigan
                    S-kerrigan 24 October 2017 04: 35
                    0
                    People kill each other precisely on a territorial basis, what now to kiss all sorts of enemies in a hickey?

                    Also not at all. Damn, doesn’t it reach what you consider (like so many) all from only two positions, moreover, the extreme ones (yours and your enemies)? If that were the case in reality, then I would still work in a domestic university for a "bowl of rice ... sorry, cereal." But this is not so, and I, thanks to intellect, work with anyone, but not with companies / clients from the CIS - they pay many times more there. And neither I consider them enemies in the bulk, nor hold me for the enemy - my partners and clients are very educated and business people. This is what we need to understand - treating the rest as enemies in the bulk, we get these enemies (analogy with Ukraine and its hatred of every Russian).

                    At the same time, I personally, like many of my partners, have no illusions and are well aware that our countries are really enemies from a geopolitical position. But while there is no war in an explicit phase, we prefer to cooperate. Which in my opinion is just the same very productive.
                    1. your1970
                      24 October 2017 07: 29
                      +1
                      Quote: S-Kerrigan
                      At the same time, I personally, like many of my partners, have no illusions and are well aware that our countries are really enemies from a geopolitical position. But while there is no war in an explicit phase, we prefer to cooperate. Which in my opinion is just the same very productive.
                      - With approximately the same words, American, and not only companies, justified their trade with Hitler during WWII.
                      "Business, nothing personal !!"
                      1. S-kerrigan
                        S-kerrigan 24 October 2017 10: 20
                        0
                        Oh, well, it started what I’ve been expecting for several days straight (I still waited for a comparison).

                        For those who are in the "tank" - what is better for the Russian Federation will be:
                        - When a woman is dressed like a doll, her head does not hurt about money and she can work for half a day (rather have a useful hobby). When, thanks to comfort, she does not hysteria, there are no quarrels and grievances. There are no cops because of the showdown at night. When for children there is an opportunity to get around the room. When children live in abundance and their anger does not “feed” on the place where they were born. When it’s possible to earn money on your own home without straining your parents. When it is possible to work in white and pay all taxes honestly. When "their" money flows here.
                        - When you work instead of IT, at the local university and everything that is described above is not.
                        What do you think is better? Not for you personally (because if you could earn XXXk, I don’t think you would look from the current position), but for the country itself? Yet we groan about the "raw material colony"! Here I am - an example of how you can fill the budget without oil export. And, please note, if I didn’t like the Russian Federation, I wouldn’t migrate here purposefully. With current contracts, I can relatively safely leave almost anywhere, but I still live here ...
                        And even if sheer garbage - but even this very resource is of much more use to me, for I am ready to pay for what I consider valuable. I have the opportunity. And the locals are again talking about their beloved comparison about World War II.

                        PS And yes, the state government believes that people like me really need this country - at the FMS level, I just had a car of indulgences without any “kickbacks”. Just someone at the top ordered that IT nicknames "very much needed."

                        PPS Yes, I’ll send all this work to the machine to the next - honest first of all with myself. If nature has rewarded with brains, then it will be straight super-stupid to drink them. They must be used. And today, these brains are paid "there," not "here."
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 24 October 2017 20: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: S-Kerrigan
                      And neither I consider them enemies in the bulk, nor hold me for the enemy

                      You are simply mistaken.
                      Quote: S-Kerrigan
                      This must be understood - referring to the rest, as enemies in the bulk, we get these enemies

                      Well, yes, and around Russia there are NATO-friendly bases of Russia and the United States, in the territory of "friendly" countries.
                      1. S-kerrigan
                        S-kerrigan 25 October 2017 05: 07
                        +1
                        Damn, once again (show respect - read the whole that I wrote / write and do not wind the barrel organ in an endless circle): I, my business contacts - both sides are aware of "what is happening."
                        You are simply mistaken.

                        This is your lie. I have no fallacy.

                        I'm not talking about the subject of the NATO alliance. I’m talking about “a certain John” or a “certain Jersey” - participants in any projects or owners of small businesses. And here they, unlike the subjects, prefer an abstract business instead of a very real conflict. But they, like myself here, we won’t take over with a grenade launcher and we won’t go “force” our governments to abandon their interests. Just because each of us normally refers to the country we have chosen to live in. But again, I repeat, this does not mean that either they support the escalation or I rejoice from the bases around us - all this is not so. And yes, one of the factors why I’m not migrating from the Russian Federation now is a bit messy: I’ll be very offended if I get a warhead from the Russian Federation then ... and if it’s from “them”, then it’s not so offensive (I ask , treat this with humor).

                        However, you still did not give an answer to my main question: what is still better? Do you still think that if a person has the opportunity to live happily ever after, he should refuse this only for the sake of the fact that others cannot afford it? At the same time, I repeat - I have no violations of laws or kickbacks, everything is honest, I just don’t want to be able to provide for my life and the life of "my" people.
            4. The comment was deleted.
        2. Alex_59
          Alex_59 20 October 2017 10: 31
          11
          Quote: S-Kerrigan
          When you really do not care, then, as a rule, they do not write anything (psychology of a healthy person)

          That's for sure. People went to "there." He doesn’t care what is there? Sit and shoot yourself from your Spanish colt, beauty! Nooo ... We need to go to the Russian site and write a four-thread. Well, what about? There in the USA everyone is sitting and shooting from the Spanish Colt, boredom. Who will appreciate that you're cool now? Only "former" compatriots. Therefore, you need to go back and show how everything was fine in your “there” and how we cook here in our juice. Scoops, quilted jackets. And he is in white, with a Spanish Colt. Yeah!
          1. S-kerrigan
            S-kerrigan 23 October 2017 05: 27
            0
            Therefore, you need to go back and show how everything was fine in your “there” and how we cook here in our juice. Scoops, quilted jackets. And he is in white, with a Spanish Colt. Yeah!

            If the locals (I'm talking about the inhabitants of the forum) react so violently, then the locals have mental problems of inferiority. That's all - a healthy person grunts in response to this and goes on.
            Here I am - shrugged, with poker wrote this message.
        3. SERGUS
          SERGUS 20 October 2017 10: 54
          10
          Quote: S-Kerrigan
          Anyone has the right to migrate wherever he wants

          Golden words good , that’s why let the lovers of the wild west and shootings go to America and shoot right and left there, but we don’t need such a gift here! ! !
        4. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 13: 27
          +5
          Quote: S-Kerrigan
          We live in the XNUMXst century.

          Thank you, that’s what we didn’t know, didn’t know.
          Quote: S-Kerrigan
          And our house is not Russia / Belgium / China, but the whole Earth.

          Thanks again.
          Quote: S-Kerrigan
          When will you get wiser?

          To myself, as I understand it, there are no such complaints? And have you attained enlightened skill?
          Quote: S-Kerrigan
          How such stupid sayings got here - d-a-a-aleko not everyone breaks into nostalgia. Even differently - when all the ZBS are, then usually they don’t remember the place where the migration came from.

          But how you got the habit of emigres to be clever and teach your former compatriots, you can’t even imagine.
          1. S-kerrigan
            S-kerrigan 23 October 2017 05: 24
            +2
            But how you got the habit of emigres to be clever and teach your former compatriots, you can’t even imagine.

            This is correctly noticed - I have no idea. There, where I came from, I neither write, nor am I even interested in “how it is” - it is not necessary for nothing.

            On the other hand, any person has the right to write / communicate with any person (within the framework of the law). And this division according to the ter-sign (supposedly from the USA, then it’s nefig to write here) - it smacks of pan-heading.
      2. baltic 86-89
        baltic 86-89 20 October 2017 14: 33
        0
        Well, it’s necessary! Already drooling from envy and anger flew! Go get sick! And use the less pronoun "us".
      3. Zheleznostop
        Zheleznostop 21 October 2017 08: 32
        +1
        A well-set strike, and better a combination of blows and a barrel, is not necessary to a person, why is it needed if a split second and a broken jaw?
        1. S-kerrigan
          S-kerrigan 23 October 2017 05: 35
          +2
          He did not calculate the stroke / "strength" of the cervical vertebra - he killed - he went to prison young for 15 years. A curtain! Was it worth it?
        2. your1970
          23 October 2017 11: 35
          +2
          in the 60s in Saratov, a group of "companions" came off very much (robbed, tore earrings from their ears, raped, took off their watches / coats / hats). So my father, although tall, but thin (military childhood) working at the factory - wore a crowbar. The most ordinary scrap iron, 1,7 m, imprisoned .... Night shifts, a very dysfunctional area (it is still no better), urban transport did not go there, it is very far from home. After 2,5 years they were caught - and their father, dragging this piece of iron 2 km one way, he pumped his arms up so that in the 80s he unscrewed the small Zhiguli nuts without a key.l They never stopped the cops - a working man with a crowbar and a demon would go to him ... I understand that this is not a particular solution, but still, can it be better to remember physical education ???
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 23 October 2017 13: 53
            +2
            Quote: your1970
            . I understand that this is not a particular solution, but still, maybe it is better to remember physical education ???

            Feyspalm is already becoming painful ... Well, persuade me to recall the physical education of my friend, who gave the best years of the army, has state military awards, that it is better for him, with his prostheses of both legs below his knees, to escape from the attacker or defeat him in hand-to-hand combat. Maybe you, too, should blow up on a mine, you look with your legs torn off, your brains will earn.
            1. your1970
              23 October 2017 16: 42
              +1
              and here is the division supporters The COP for two camps is for those who “just sell trunks with minimal control” (like the USA) and those who “allow but with strict requirements for storage, moral character, control (including systematic visits to the shooting gallery).” Your friend can regularly visit the shooting range?
              ZY I am categorically against the Constitutional Court - but if allowed, then on the side of "enhanced control over the Constitutional Court"
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 23 October 2017 16: 52
                +1
                Quote: your1970
                and here is where the supporters of the Constitutional Court are divided into two camps - those who for "just distribute trunks with minimal control" (like the USA) and those who "allow but with strict requirements for storage, moral character, control (including systematic visit the shooting gallery). " Will your friend be able to systematically attend the shooting range?

                In the USA, it also happens in different ways, depending on the state. But I am almost satisfied with the existing licensing and control system in the Russian Federation, as well as the rules for storing firearms. It remains only to finalize the rules for wearing CSR and related nuances, such as the organization of CSR storage places in places where access to it is prohibited.
                Quote: your1970
                Will your friend be able to regularly attend the shooting range?

                But what, for this you need to run fast or know ju-jutsu?
    2. Alex_59
      Alex_59 20 October 2017 10: 27
      +9
      Quote: Nic
      So let the author tremble with fear for his priceless time sheet of Makarov, and I’ll release tomorrow a box of luger from my Spanish colt and laugh at the fears that for me personally have long been left behind with the country that I had to leave

      So much pathos that you already want to yawn from boredom.
      "If you wanna shoot - shoot, don`t talk" (C) Eli Herschel Wallach
    3. Alekseev
      Alekseev 20 October 2017 11: 50
      +5
      Quote: Nic
      do you know . You know nothing

      I would like to the point of the matter, and not "rich and interesting" verbiage, even if from an English-speaking gentleman. wink
      For example, as there, America, law-abiding "urinate" the criminal element, how they distinguish it, because this element is never recognized as an attack, but, on the contrary, it always allegedly defends itself and unfairly suffers, including from the police ...
      One thing is clear, everyone can’t hang around with a gun, but who can (and, sometimes, need) is a difficult question.
    4. your1970
      20 October 2017 13: 20
      +5
      Quote: Nic
      I’ll release tomorrow right luger box from my spanish colt
      - right here in this sequence - a luger from the Colt ???? Novelties are probably weapons fashion .. or a bad translation ... or the author of the gun never saw in my eyes at all .......

      Z.Y. from your laughter neither hot nor cold - "a woman with a cart is easier" ....
    5. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 13: 20
      +3
      Quote: Nic
      Sorry, boiling too, you know. You do not know anything, but boil in your own juice.

      And why the heck is this scum of a biased emigres? Would you go with such pathos, Comrade d'Artagnan, to teach your wife how to cook cabbage soup.
      1. BecmepH
        BecmepH 20 October 2017 13: 42
        +6
        The protector of the emigrant is even a little blunt))) Well, he painted everything beautifully (he thinks so), but they cut him down with his own words. Thanks to Alex_59, SERGUS, Alekseev, your1970, IS-80_RVGK2 for support
        1. Black5Raven
          Black5Raven 20 October 2017 14: 24
          +1
          Quote: BecmepH
          Even a faint defender of an emigrant)))

          People have more important activities than at the height of the working day trying to convince the analogue of the "maydanutyh" (as they like to say), who can only hiss with anger towards anyone who is abroad. And you confirmation, except for spitting poison and hissing did not say anything. Continue to live in your cozy little world.
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 20 October 2017 14: 35
            +3
            Quote: Black5Raven
            People have more important activities than at the height of the working day trying to convince the analogue of "maydanutyh"

            That is, according to your people there, in the USA, it also works at night ... Mdya ... The portrait looms ambiguous ... I am wildly sorry and certainly don’t think of anything so obscene, and I certainly don’t want to offend anyone, but work at night this is of course specifics. There is clearly no time to write. They had such an evening when he wrote his speech. )))))))
            Quote: Black5Raven
            Continue to live in your cozy little world.

            Oooh, thanks)))) We continue. drinks
          2. BecmepH
            BecmepH 20 October 2017 14: 52
            +1
            Quote: Black5Raven
            Quote: BecmepH
            Even a faint defender of an emigrant)))

            People have more important activities than at the height of the working day trying to convince the analogue of the "maydanutyh" (as they like to say), who can only hiss with anger towards anyone who is abroad. And you confirmation, except for spitting poison and hissing did not say anything. Continue to live in your cozy little world.

            What are you talking about on our sites? I came to visit and still teaches. Read carefully above ... The emigrant began to spit saliva. (And you do not envy him by chance?). I just outlined my position about re-twisting the name of my country! This is what you call
            poison spitting and hissing
            ? You will like it when your country is called, well, for example, blarusia, and you - blarus. And what's so, it's just joking. Go to soy sites and teach your fellow countrymen how to love emigrants. left, so do not spit in your homeland. Well, how to come back impatient.
    6. Setrac
      Setrac 20 October 2017 14: 03
      +3
      When the time comes, the state itself will give me weapons, without the right to refuse, the simple and reliable Kalashnikov will pour out cartridges completely free of charge and even - lo and behold - delegate to me the right to kill, especially those who love Spanish volts.
  6. aszzz888
    aszzz888 20 October 2017 07: 37
    +2
    For the hundredth time about the short

    ... more than the hundredth, and the author there too ...
    1. your1970
      20 October 2017 14: 12
      +4
      The full title of the article was - ““ Haha goat button accordion? ”© (folk) or for the umpteenth time about the short barrel.” They didn’t let two days in and cut the name repeat
  7. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 20 October 2017 07: 44
    20
    The given examples of small / tiny countries such as Switzerland / Israel / Moldova / others cannot directly overlap our realities precisely because of their small size
    The size of the country has nothing to do with it. Then why is the mentality different? The author communicated with Moldovans ??! fool
    The gun has always been, is and will be the coveted prey of the criminal world.
    The criminal world is already armed with us. The trunk can be bought without problems, the author needs to talk with operas from UR.
    Unbalanced / scumbag. There is no guarantee that weapons will not reach them.
    For thugs, it makes no difference - a short-barrel or a smooth-barrel. And statistics on the criminal use of the smoothbore are easy to find.
    So the author just twisted the horror stories, no more.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 10: 22
      +1
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      So the author just twisted the horror stories, no more.

      If you want to shoot a pistol, go to the USA. One stupid in the country will be less.
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      statistics on the criminal use of smoothbore are easy to find.

      There is little smoothbore, so you also want to arm them with a shortbore. Cleverly.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 20 October 2017 13: 29
        10
        Judging by the grammar, the country is already one more. So with my county, the country will not lose anything. wink
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        There is little smoothbore, so you also want to arm them with a shortbore.

        For the gifted, I repeat - statistics are publicly available. And for reference, in the same Moldova, after the resolution of the short-barrel, the percentage of serious crimes with violence decreased.
        The smart one will draw conclusions, the stupid one will flood. hi
        1. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 13: 36
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          So with my county, the country will not lose anything.

          Well yes. More likely to acquire.
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          For the gifted, I repeat - statistics are publicly available. And for reference, in the same Moldova, after the resolution of the short-barrel, the percentage of serious crimes with violence decreased.

          For those who have very tight gyrus, I don’t give a damn about your jugglery statistics. If you want to wear a legal short barrel, go live in Moldova.
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          The smart one will draw conclusions, the stupid one will flood.

          There is little hope for this in your attitude.
        2. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 20 October 2017 16: 34
          +6
          And you there too am God knows how many did not write and again burst am
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          in the same Moldova, after the resolution of the short-barrel, the percentage of serious crimes with violence decreased.

          And how much after this left the country to earn money, including thugs? Is there still a population capable of holding weapons in their hands?
        3. Zheleznostop
          Zheleznostop 21 October 2017 08: 37
          +1
          There are all the men in kalyms in Russia. There is no one to shoot.
        4. The comment was deleted.
    2. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 11: 00
      +3
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      For thugs, it makes no difference - a short-barrel or a smooth-barrel.

      There is a difference: a korotkostvol, this same scumbag, will always be with him, and in the clinic, and on the bus, and in the train, and on the street ... everywhere. With a shotgun to the advantage, he is unlikely to ride a bus or walk along the street!
    3. your1970
      20 October 2017 13: 45
      +1
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The size of the country has nothing to do with it.
      - the size of the country is just what.
      1) One of the most type of belligerent countries in Singapore has a police force of 40 per 000 population and an area of ​​5/000 Moscow - against Moscow at least 000 (in reality I think under 1 million) of the population of 4 police. to come to Singapore density it is necessary to increase the police at least three times
      2) Germany 245 police officers - against our 000 with incompatibility of territories every 756 minimum
      3) Moldova
      "Moldova has become a leader among EU countries in the category of police costs. Out of every 100 lei produced in the Republic of Moldova, we pay about 2 lei for the services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which is almost two times more than the average for the EU countries. For comparison, in Romania, 30% less than we pay for the services of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
      If Moldova reduces the costs of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to the level of the EU countries, we will save about one billion lei annually. About 20 kilometers of national roads can be repaired with this money every year without taking loans for these purposes. In addition, in Moldova the ratio of police officers per capita is incorrect. One employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs accounts for 223 citizens of Moldova. For comparison, one police officer in the EU serves 348 people, and in Romania - 377 citizens, which is 154 more than his Moldovan counterpart. From the reports of the Ministry of Internal Affairs it follows that at the beginning of 2016, 16205 police officers were registered. It is noted that in 2014 their number was 15918. This tendency in Moldova runs counter to the norms in the EU countries, where the number of police officers decreases, even if the population grows. "- this is strange - it’s kind of like a short barrel is allowed - and the costs ABOVE than in EU countries where it is prohibited
  8. erased
    erased 20 October 2017 08: 48
    24
    That would be an article to read the killed, robbed and crippled victims of street gangsterism (and not just street). They would definitely agree with the conclusions of the author.
    Songs about the lack of a culture of handling weapons, wild tales that the owner of a pistol (revolver) will be immediately hunted by all the criminals of the Russian Federation, the hunt on the topic of storage horrors has already been performed and will still be performed by other adherents of the Nizya! Clan!
    It's good! True true! The growing number of screams about the ban on civilian short-barreled rifled and smooth-bore weapons indirectly suggests that the Weapons Act itself can still be changed.
    Well, the citizen “svoy1970" can say the following: Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart I wish you and your loved ones to be in a situation where the presence or absence of weapons will determine whether you will continue to live or not. To feel in their own skin everything that too many victims of murder, assassination, beating, rape, robbery, robbery felt.
    And although you can’t wish people bad, you want something! The fact that you are opposed to trying to get a chance to protect yourself with something more significant than a stick or a very conditional possession of self-defense techniques.

    Ah, if it were possible to make sure that if an amendment to the Law was adopted, everyone who opposed the short-barrels would not be allowed to purchase! I wish they were delighted!
    1. _anatoly
      _anatoly 20 October 2017 09: 54
      +6
      The idea is not obvious to you that the more weapons, there will be more victims of murders, rapes, robberies? Then I feel sorry for you.
      Or do you alone know something that convinces you of the idea that the short-barrel will only water the villains? Share, where such conviction comes from?
      Personally, I have the opposite belief that for the most part those who are ready to KILL will get weapons, without being tied to any of their moral qualities. who does not want to KILL, that weapon is not necessary. Ideally, if you care so much about security. sign up for the martial arts section. And for health, it’s good and less likely to go to jail.
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 20 October 2017 18: 37
        +5
        Quote: _anatoly
        that most people who are ready to KILL will get weapons, without reference to any of their moral qualities

        In the USSR, with its fiercest control, this at least was true, but in our realities such people already have it. The phrase "take away weapons from their rightful owners, and it remains only for criminals," the same was born not from scratch.
    2. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 10: 16
      +2
      Quote: erased
      They would definitely agree with the conclusions of the author.

      Sometimes it’s better to keep silent. There is a chance for getting smart. Russia is rich in narrow-minded people. Why are you howling about the victims of banditry and keep quiet about those who were killed from a completely legal weapon?
    3. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 11: 17
      +4
      Quote: erased
      That would be an article to read the killed, robbed and crippled victims of street gangsterism (and not just street).

      Yeah, the girl whose robber grabbed a bag one evening and hid in the dusk for 5 seconds around the corner of a neighboring building, thought just like that: if she could, she would get her colt and shoot. All robberies, as a rule, occur quickly and suddenly, so that the victim does not have time to either see the faces or show any resistance, and a smooth-bore gun is suitable for protecting property.

      Quote: erased
      Ah, if it were possible to make sure that if an amendment to the Law was adopted, everyone who opposed the short-barrels would not be allowed to purchase! I wish they were delighted!

      It will not work, as a rule, most of these people already have hunting weapons and therefore they know what they are talking about.
    4. ver_
      ver_ 20 October 2017 11: 49
      +9
      ... only one thing is unpleasant - why some * uncle * decides for me whether I am worthy or not to do something ... here authorities of all levels deserve everything: to take bribes, they can * throw queues for housing * cheat in all areas where * money is spinning ..., governors, ministers, members of the government, deputies of the sovereign duma - are purely angels with wings ... they are all right - they have no difficulty in having bodyguards - they * do not need stray * in their pocket ..
      1. SERGUS
        SERGUS 20 October 2017 13: 15
        +1
        Quote: ver_
        the authorities of all levels deserve everything: to take bribes, they can * throw the waiting list for housing * cheat in all areas where * the money * is spinning ...

        Well, to solve one problem by adding another, it’s absolutely not right to excuse me ... well, or figuratively speaking, if your head hurts, it doesn’t mean that you have to hit your hand with a hammer so that the pain goes there, the body as a whole will not heal , but it will only get worse.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 21 October 2017 11: 27
          +2
          ... miscalculation is such a thing - a referendum ..., but it’s not easy to beat off a pack of stray dogs .., I had an East European shepherd dog-72 cm at the withers .. Walked in a forest, suddenly the dog began to break off the leash. .. A man stands about 30 meters ..- he was afraid of dogs - my dog ​​could smell adrenaline-fear .. -that means the enemy .. and the man screams * hold him tight - I'm afraid of dogs .. * So he criminalizes - he smells who you can attack ...
          1. SERGUS
            SERGUS 24 October 2017 11: 58
            0
            Quote: ver_
            So crime - senses who you can attack ...

            That is why criminals will become more selective, they will attack not the men who wear camouflage, and whose holster is visible from the side, but on the women.
            1. ver_
              ver_ 24 October 2017 12: 36
              +1
              .. a pocket pistol - the same pistol - easily and simply holes in the body - tea is not on the dash - 2-3 meters - the distance is not great ..
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 24 October 2017 14: 59
                +1
                The attacks are lightning fast, it is difficult to use a gun if it is in a holster, and if it is somewhere in your pocket ... But there is time to get a gun out of your pocket only during a "road" disassembly.
                Quote: ver_
                2-3 meters - the distance is not great ..

                From 2-3 meters, the injury also works well.
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 17: 56
                  0
                  Quote: SERGUS
                  The attacks are lightning fast, it is difficult to use a gun if it is in a holster, and if it is somewhere in your pocket ... But there is time to get a gun out of your pocket only during a "road" disassembly.

                  To the question of the duration of the extraction of weapons from the holster -
                  solution to problem number 1:

                  decision No. 2

                  some training and you can surprise even very sharp guys.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 25 October 2017 07: 33
                    +8
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    some training and you can surprise even very sharp guys

                    Correction: really “harsh” guys all that you see with such interest (I would like to put it another way, in a word. But I’m not ready to catch the next “medal” from the moderator for you somehow) already know how.
                    And you can only surprise them with their enduring naivety.
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 26 October 2017 01: 15
                      +1
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      already know how.

                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      And you can only surprise them with their enduring naivety.

                      Do you know that ... I appreciate and respect your unwillingness to have weapons, I appreciate and respect your unwillingness to take any responsibility. But ... I will never recognize your right to dictate to me what I have the right to and what not.
                      Considering your communication style, I consider further conversation with you unproductive.
                  2. SERGUS
                    SERGUS 25 October 2017 10: 30
                    0
                    Quote: Rakti-Kali
                    some training and you can surprise even very sharp guys.

                    This sharpness is useful only for a duel in the "wild west" style when you are facing each other and want to shoot your opponent. Representatives of the special services, when they talk on this subject, unanimously say that a person, if he does not expect an attack, will not be able to effectively use weapons, and I agree with this. And if you go on alert all the time, wait for the attack, so to speak, here random casualties will begin.
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 26 October 2017 01: 26
                      +1
                      Quote: SERGUS
                      This sharpness is useful only for a duel in the "wild west" style when you are facing each other and want to shoot your opponent.

                      Quote: SERGUS
                      Representatives of the special services, when they talk on this subject, unanimously say that a person, if he does not expect an attack, will not be able to effectively use weapons

                      Quote: SERGUS
                      And if you go on alert all the time, wait for the attack, so to speak, here random casualties will begin.

                      You know, at first I wanted to even answer something, but I probably won’t. I’m just tired of giving meaningful answers to meaningless claims and questions. I respect your right to be unarmed and irresponsible, but I have no respect for the groundless and unproven statements that make this conversation too burdensome and meaningless for me.
                2. ver_
                  ver_ 25 October 2017 07: 14
                  0
                  ..aga - just piss off on yourself do not spoil and then the sky with a sheepskin will seem ..
                  1. SERGUS
                    SERGUS 25 October 2017 10: 06
                    0
                    Quote: ver_
                    ..aga - only piss off on yourself do not spoil

                    Modern traumatic ammunition has grown significantly in power, and if there are not three fur coats on the enemy, then he will not be well.
                    PS Thieves, gopniks and others do not dress in three fur coats, because they need to move quickly.
            2. ver_
              ver_ 25 October 2017 08: 23
              0
              ... you can shoot without taking your hands out of your pocket in a raincoat, jacket, bag or handbag- that hangs on your shoulder ..- the need for fiction is much * want to help * - sit down ..
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 25 October 2017 10: 20
                0
                Quote: ver_
                ... you can shoot without taking your hands out of your pocket in a raincoat, jacket, bag or purse

                Do you even hear yourself? What are you saying? If you keep carrying a gun in your pocket while holding it with your hand, then sooner or later you will shoot yourself a leg or shoot someone by chance.
                1. ver_
                  ver_ 25 October 2017 14: 08
                  0
                  .. why hold it with your hands? The trunk is not a living creature - where it was placed - there it will lie. Putting your hand in your pocket or bag is an instant, and even if you turn sideways at that time ..
                  1. SERGUS
                    SERGUS 25 October 2017 15: 20
                    +1
                    Quote: ver_
                    Put your hand in your pocket or bag - instant

                    One blow to the head from behind, or a knife near the throat and a hand, you no longer pop
                    1. ver_
                      ver_ 25 October 2017 17: 05
                      0
                      ..but you are a great athlete - in an instant you can cover several meters with a jump .., and even with a knife in your hand ..
      2. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
        Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 21 October 2017 18: 10
        +4
        Governors, ministers, members, and others in power have long had a legal basis for the short barrel that we are discussing, and not some weak civilian, but quite military one, which the security forces do not always have. And even with bodyguards, some carry it with them and arrange post-shootings in a hotel right in the center of the capital. A "cattle" no way !! ..
    5. your1970
      20 October 2017 14: 21
      +3
      I repeat, I had the experience of owning weapons in the early 90s - at the most criminal time in the country in the Moscow Region, I never needed it. Moreover, even taking into account my fitness - the probability that he would help me in case of danger, I myself determine 60 percent, no more. It was precisely because of my military service that I knew for sure that we were taught, including this .......
      1. ver_
        ver_ 20 October 2017 17: 13
        +4
        ... this is how they teach us to kill or kill someone - turn away and * shed * shyddy from sin away, so as not to get under the hand, both from the bandits and from our organs, the initiative is punishable ... spell ..
      2. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
        Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 21 October 2017 18: 21
        +2
        I also have the experience of wearing PMa for more than 10 years. Thank God, it was not necessary to apply, although I had to demonstrate a couple of times (this was enough). Each has its own service. But one of our district officers in the forest village only survived because, in violation of departmental instructions, he carried a pistol with a cartridge in the chamber and in an open (without valve) holster. Therefore, having received a blow with a sharpening, he managed to put his hand in, and the other grabbed a gun and planted a bullet to the assailant. Moreover, the attack was not on the street, but in the office, where the person was called simply for preventive conversation and aggression did not portend anything. The deputy prosecutor who arrived at the scene of the incident said "well, everything is clear here" and a criminal case without delay was refused.
        1. your1970
          22 October 2017 14: 57
          0
          Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Moreover, the attack was not on the street, but in the office, where the person was called simply for preventive conversation and aggression did not portend anything.
          - i.e. invited was READY to attack the employee of authority - EVEN KNOWING 100% WHAT THE ENEMY IS ARMED?And it didn’t stop him a bit?
          And with what fright this gopnik will stop offending even the armed "" (in your terminology) ???
          Z.Y. in your case, it would not be a sharpening blow, but a shot from the threshold into the head of the district policeman. And yes, there would be no criminal case about self-defense ...

          Z.Z.Z. and so all the arguments of the supporters of the COP, they give a bunch of arguments and then they themselves break ....
      3. ver_
        ver_ 25 October 2017 08: 27
        0
        ... fear is a bad helper (fear of killing and cuckling after it on the plank beds) ..
    6. The comment was deleted.
  9. _anatoly
    _anatoly 20 October 2017 08: 57
    +8
    Is not a simple thought obvious?
    The more weapons, the more corpses! I just don’t understand what else can I discuss here?
    1. novel66
      novel66 20 October 2017 10: 06
      18
      absolutely right! I would also add - I live calmly and without a trunk, but when everyone has a trunk with an offended dive, I will also have to get it to protect myself from them
      1. ver_
        ver_ 28 October 2017 17: 14
        0
        ... and if this dive has a bit? ..
    2. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 11: 23
      +6
      Quote: _anatoly
      The more weapons, the more corpses! I just don’t understand what else can I discuss here?

      25 years of Hollywood movies about zombies are making themselves felt, many think that if something happens they can take away a three hundred charging PM and famously shoot bad guys!
    3. ver_
      ver_ 20 October 2017 14: 13
      +1
      ..very much * sits for life * for crimes committed - how much money goes to ghouls - it is democratic when the victims pay for their maintenance - and this is a lot of money ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. SERGUS
        SERGUS 24 October 2017 15: 10
        +2
        Quote: ver_
        ..very much * sits for life * for crimes committed - how much money goes to ghouls

        This is what you do? What if the population had weapons they would be killed on the spot and they would not be sitting? So you just need to lift the moratorium on the death penalty, and not hand out weapons to everyone so that everyone will be a judge and kill without trial.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 25 October 2017 07: 18
          0
          ..that is to the fact that at the top they benefit from this ..- I see no other explanation ...
    4. Black5Raven
      Black5Raven 20 October 2017 14: 29
      +8
      Quote: _anatoly
      Is not a simple thought obvious?
      The more weapons, the more corpses! I just don’t understand what else can I discuss here?

      How I worry about the poor Swiss, will die out! crying Wait, why do they have one killed per 100.000 population, but in a short-barreled Russian Federation from 7 and above?
      1. SERGUS
        SERGUS 20 October 2017 19: 51
        +3
        Quote: Black5Raven
        Wait, why do they have one killed per 100.000 population, but in a short-barreled Russian Federation from 7 and above?

        If we had such an order in everything as in Switzerland, we would have 0 dead per 100, but for now in our clinic a doctor’s face is beaten because of a long wait in the queue, and if there were weapons, a shootout would ensue between the medical staff and the sick.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 25 October 2017 14: 58
          0
          ... here in the anus and to the peasants the men shoved the bottles into the police - there were publications on this subject and * elephant * practiced ... so what?
          1. SERGUS
            SERGUS 25 October 2017 15: 22
            0
            Quote: ver_
            ... with us and

            What’s this all about? ? ?
            1. ver_
              ver_ 26 October 2017 16: 15
              0
              ... it is not clear? .., the pit is not the case with criminals ..- they just showed their power ..
    5. Nemesis
      Nemesis 20 October 2017 19: 57
      10
      The bandits have weapons and so they are, and no one will ever forbid them to have them ... Which means that all the arguments of opponents of civilian weapons are simply not adequate. And I do not need to write all sorts of nonsense, I have had legal weapons for more than 15 years.
      1. SERGUS
        SERGUS 20 October 2017 21: 14
        +2
        Quote: Nemesis
        The bandits have weapons and so they are, and no one will ever forbid them to have them ...

        That is why it is necessary to more effectively fight crime, including the illegal arms market, and to improve our "valiant" police. But to say buy guns and deal with crime yourself, this is a simple solution that may not solve the problem, but only give rise to new problems.
        1. Nemesis
          Nemesis 20 October 2017 21: 22
          +6
          Before writing to me, think well, is there at least one country in the world in which they could close the black arms market and eliminate crime ?! There is no such country, and it’s not realistic to put a policeman on every corner, so all your fables are reduced to the fact that you are calling to leave the people defenseless against criminals. Problems arose in Australia after people there banned civilian weapons. The number of serious crimes increased many times over.
          1. SERGUS
            SERGUS 20 October 2017 21: 36
            0
            Quote: Nemesis
            think well, is there at least one country in the world in which they were able to close the black arms market and eliminate crime ?!

            100% in none, but the scales are different everywhere, somewhere you can buy weapons at every corner, and somewhere it's very difficult to do. In general, your position is understandable, you are for a showdown in the style of "wild west".
            1. Nemesis
              Nemesis 20 October 2017 21: 43
              +7
              A wild west showdown is now in Australia and sponsored by people like you, who left the population unarmed in front of gangs. As I already wrote, I have had weapons for more than 15 years and you can’t say the phrases your associates love about you, such as the one I didn’t shoot, is inadequate, or a youngster. I am not a few years old, I am an armed and at the same time law-abiding person and the presence of my weapon does not make me want to shoot anywhere with baked eyes ... Such as I am the majority. In general, the position of our state is ridiculous. Calling a person into the army they are given a machine gun, or something cooler, and then he has to run for a long time and collect certificates to buy a smoothbore, or injury ... Finally I want to say like you like that - Weapons cost a lot of money and people buy it not from a good life. Restore order in the country, then there will be less people willing to buy weapons. Fight crime, who doesn’t give you now?
              1. SERGUS
                SERGUS 20 October 2017 22: 12
                0
                Quote: Nemesis
                I am not a few years old, I am an armed and at the same time law-abiding person and the presence of my weapon does not make me want to shoot anywhere with baked eyes ... Such as I am the majority.

                I also have hunting weapons and I have never once had the desire to shoot anywhere, and most of them agree, but 1 out of 1 normal weapons can do a lot of trouble.
                Quote: Nemesis
                Calling a man into the army they give him a gun, or something cooler

                But what’s steeper about it is generally useless, well, don’t sell tanks, armored personnel carriers and combat helicopters to the population.
                Quote: Nemesis
                Place your order in the country, then there will be less people wishing to buy weapons. Fight crime, who doesn’t give you now?

                That's what I said about this:
                That is why it is necessary to more effectively fight crime, including the illegal arms market, and to improve our "valiant" police.

                Only you understand that neither I nor you can put things in order in the country, this should be done by our government if it does not want to periodically "come across" the question of legalizing the short-barrel, especially since there is no unambiguous position on this issue in society. But alas, apparently our government has more important things to do.
                1. Nemesis
                  Nemesis 20 October 2017 22: 16
                  +6
                  So far, our government has not put things in order in the country, and you cannot tell me the country where the authorities coped with crime because of the lack thereof, I prefer to have a gun, for self-defense ... And if you look at individual emergency situations and based on them state that weapons cannot be sold to the people, then the police and the army need to be disarmed, there is also enough emergency ... You don’t offer to disarm them because of the emergency in the army and the police, you understand that they are more useful than harm ... That's law-abiding citizens will have more benefits from weapons than from their absence and their presence only from bandits
                  1. SERGUS
                    SERGUS 21 October 2017 09: 32
                    0
                    Your position is clear to me, the trunk is the only solution to the problem, that’s the point. Just in the end I wanted to ask where did you get such information about Australia:
                    Quote: Nemesis
                    Problems arose in Australia after people there banned civilian weapons. The number of serious crimes increased many times over.

                    Quote: Nemesis
                    A wild west showdown is now in Australia and sponsored by people like you, who left the population unarmed in front of gangs.

                    Here are two sources for example:
                    https://zbroya.info/ru/blog/3474_pravda-ili-vymys
                    el-ob-oruzheinom-zakonodatelstve-v-avstralii /
                    и
                    http://inosmi.ru/australia/20121223/203673802.htm
                    l
                    on this subject, such horror stories that there is a wild west and people are afraid to leave their homes and there are no more!
                    1. Rakti-kali
                      Rakti-kali 21 October 2017 11: 29
                      +6
                      Quote: SERGUS
                      Your position is clear to me, the trunk is the only thing solution to the problem, period.

                      You either misunderstood the interlocutor, or you intentionally distort - no one says that CSR is the only solution to the problem of street crime and unmotivated aggression, but resolving civil trafficking and wearing CSR is an additional tool to solve these problems.
                      1. SERGUS
                        SERGUS 21 October 2017 12: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        You either misunderstood the interlocutor

                        But how to understand him when he speaks first
                        A weapon is not worth a little money and people buy it not from a good life.Place your order in the country , then those who wish to buy weapons will become less.

                        then
                        That's while our power didn't bring order to the country,but the country where the government dealt with crime, you can’t name me because of the lack thereof, I prefer to have a gun, for self-defense.

                        Those. the person seems to say first, put things in order. and CSR, as it were, is not needed, but then he says that we don’t have order yet, and it won’t succeed because not a single country could overcome crime ... We won’t discuss these phrases themselves (although there is something to discuss here) , the question is different: why does a person call for establishing order and then says that there are no countries that would do this!
                        Quote: Rakti-Kali
                        the resolution of civil circulation and the wearing of CSR is an additional tool to solve these problems.

                        So it is so, only this problem-solving tool gives rise to other problems, and the ideal problem-solving is one that does not create new problems.
                        IMHO if this decision was 100% obvious, then probably in the vast majority of countries CSR would be legalized, and this is that the authorities are afraid that the slaves will seize power - this is nonsense, because if that were the case, then no one would be so widespread in the world democracy, and the whole world would live under kings and kings!
          2. The comment was deleted.
    6. ver_
      ver_ 26 October 2017 16: 04
      +1
      ... please specify - whose corpses are criminals, or law-abiding citizens ..
  10. just Palych
    just Palych 20 October 2017 08: 58
    15
    For 30 years I wore a PM, but I knew very well that having to use it would have to answer, I shot on the go at the hijacker, thank God that the bullet was stuck in the rear spoiler, otherwise I probably would not have written here ... It’s necessary to make the law the right to self-defense in his house, his car, and not write stories from the USA, and dream about something that the authorities will never allow!
  11. CooL_SnipeR
    CooL_SnipeR 20 October 2017 09: 27
    +3
    Oh my God ... how long can you procrastinate the same thing? It's time for the word short barrel, etc. equate to the mat and issue warnings
  12. Vard
    Vard 20 October 2017 10: 09
    +9
    What is annoying ... is that they decide for you what you have the right and what not ... In the same America, mass executions are mainly carried out in those states where there are restrictions on the carrying of weapons ... and there are statistics on the use of weapons for self-defense, but for some reason, no one mentions ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  13. CONTROL
    CONTROL 20 October 2017 10: 13
    +2
    Mark Twain?...
    authority of course!
    In contrast to this: P. Greenway "The man who abducted the queen and dissolved the parliament."
    -----------------------------
    most of these objection problems are of a political-mental nature! politics will change - mentality will change ...
    ------------------------------
    parallels with the computer game "Deus ex": - a world where computer implants are ubiquitous, from the simplest (hearing, vision ...) to combat systems of mass destruction (in the game - "Typhoon", a mortar and artillery system that affects everything and everyone ...)
    1. your1970
      20 October 2017 16: 33
      0
      M. Twain lived in those days and described the life he observed in fact in magazine reports. Do not like it? Read any historian who writes about those times. It will be about the same as that of Twain.
  14. Settlement Oparyshev
    Settlement Oparyshev 20 October 2017 10: 34
    +1
    The author understands the topic of the short barrel well, but there is one more side of the issue. In our people, the power belongs to the Matriarchy, not the peasants unfortunately. The men act as henpecked, sissy sons. And here they have weapons in their hands. This changes the balance of power and priorities of power. In the Society there is a change to the Patriarchate. Such changes are fraught with difficulties. The peasants themselves are not ready to take power into their own hands. And mother-in-law will not want to give up power. The situation will be unpredictable.
    1. AleBors
      AleBors 20 October 2017 11: 51
      +4
      "The men themselves are not ready to take power into their own hands. And the mother-in-law will not want to give up power." Are you talking about yourself?
      Let's not generalize ..
      1. Settlement Oparyshev
        Settlement Oparyshev 20 October 2017 11: 54
        0
        Here's my sissy and betrayed myself. I got handsome. And on the account of me, I would write about myself.
  15. bk316
    bk316 20 October 2017 11: 06
    +9
    I generally agree with the conclusions of the author, but the arguments are rather weak in some places.
    Well, for example, you can’t get a tower for a third-degree murder (exceeding self-defense) in the United States and for the second degree is also weakly.
    In fact, since the long barrel is already allowed, you just need to finalize the law on self-defense. Even not so - it is necessary that the accepted standards would work. Without insanity - like at night 3 armed peasants broke into your house at home - must prove that there was a threat to your life.
  16. Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 20 October 2017 11: 38
    12
    1. Opinions of citizens are spreading in three categories: a) the threat to life; b) the threat to property; c) “I'm with a gun”. The first two categories are simpler and more logical (you can discuss, at least), but the third ... The third category confidently thinks that you can swing the trunk left / right, not be patient, answer: "Yes, he disgraced my wife in every way !!" At the same time, for some reason, they immediately forget about the opposite situation: that the other side may also have a weapon, and also that they will have to answer under the law for the accomplished.

    As I understand it, you consider the first 2 points to be a logical and adequate reason to want to acquire CSR, so I will dwell on 3 points in more detail. So, IMHO, “waving left / right, do not be patient” is still worth sharing, because the desire to not be a victim and the desire to amuse one’s FWB are, as they say in Odessa, two big differences. In addition, even the most ardent supporters of CSR civil trafficking permission do not mean by “free sale to the public” the sale of a short-barrel a la shaverma in any tent or shotgun, any adequate person understands that the sale of weapons is carried out according to strict rules and the owner must be mentally healthy, as well as fully prepared for the possession of weapons and the use of weapons. The implementation of the first paragraph is provided by the LRO of the Internal Affairs Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the second by the Ministry of Health, the third by the Ministry of Internal Affairs in cooperation with sports shooting federations and private entrepreneurs, providing full training for citizens (like driving schools), as well as the practice and monitoring of compliance with the rules for storing and carrying weapons.
    The combination of these factors should minimize the number of people wishing to "swing the barrel left / right." And the understanding of the fact that "the opposing side can also have weapons, as well as that you have to answer according to the law for the perfect," is also a good deterrent for any adequate person. And whoever does not understand this should be cut off from the weapon, and not only the KS, (IMHO from vehicles, too) by the three factors cited by me above.
    I also want to immediately share the threat to life and property - not by value, but by transience. The threat of life arises instantly; the threat to property will be extended in time. Even untrained shooters will have enough reaction to counteracting a threat to property; in case of a life threat, even a constantly training professional shooter may not have enough time (there was such a thing, alas).

    You are mistaken here. Firstly, the wallet can be removed from your corpse, and secondly, your corpse can also form during the deprivation of your wallet, even if the villain initially did not plan to kill (by the way, about half of the detained ghouls admitted that they killed the victim precisely because she not defended, that is, the victim's defenselessness provoked the murder). It’s another matter - if they decided to kill you from the beginning, then you will have very few chances to survive, and indeed, a cop, a bulletproof vest, an armored car, and even a bodyguard are unlikely to save you (the FSO will save you, but not us ...), but honestly, honestly answer how many attacks on the street are aimed at killing? How much, 0,1%, 0,01%? Over 99,9% of attacks did not initially target murder (this is robbery and hooliganism), and here CSR is quite capable of protecting you, your loved ones and your property.
    Yes, I’ll also note that most of the attackers are not active special forces officers or superhumans, so telling that “the pistols will pick you up and shoot you from them” is not an argument.
    Self Defense Law. People who believe that it will be possible to kill potatoes from a garden for a stolen bucket

    There is legislation in Russia on this subject and it is quite complete (IMHO, you only need to legislate two theses: 1. My house is my fortress; 2 I do not have to run away.) Only the normal regulation of civil detention is lacking (because to stop the crime without arresting an attacker can only be done by injuring / killing / taking him to flight). The possession of weapons now implies the duty of the owner to know a certain set of legal norms and follow them. Those who believe that it will be possible to kill potatoes for a stolen bucket will either cease to think so or they will not be able to obtain permission.
    “Nobody in Russia voluntarily legalizes normal short-barrels, because an armed citizen can ask questions, and the siloviki suddenly become completely useless.”

    In Russia, a much more powerful weapon is allowed, but no one is in a hurry to ask questions, and the security forces have not become useless. Anyway, to fight with pistols against automatic weapons, machine guns, tanks and helicopters with airplanes supported by guns ... agree, it's not even funny.
    Including for this reason, not one of the cases of mass killings in the United States was prevented by the citizens themselves - with their over-armedness.

    But this is not true! Look on the net - there are many cases when a massacre did not become one just because the bastard / scum was shot by armed citizens. In other cases, executions took place in the "Hanseatic free zones" and the main weapons of the ghouls were not pistols but rifles.
    Offhand: "Police in the United States shot and killed 256 people in the first three months of 2016." I became interested and spent half an hour searching: on November 16, the 1000th citizen of 2015 was shot dead by police in the United States. ”

    And that all those shot were shot innocently? By the way, during the same period, armed citizens shot two or three times more bandits who attacked them, and they shot them lawfully, because in such cases a trial is being conducted, and nobody will be there, like policemen, in such cases.
    Unfortunately, I can’t write anymore, a spinal injury does not allow me to sit at the keyboard for more than half an hour, and severe pain. But you can continue to think that it’s easier for me to run away from the attackers or defeat their hand-to-hand combat (although a little over a year ago I had to grapple with 4 armed earhooks, injuring one and dispersing the others, but then the spine was still intact).
    1. Settlement Oparyshev
      Settlement Oparyshev 20 October 2017 11: 57
      +1
      I’ll tell you how I treated a bruised spine.
    2. bk316
      bk316 20 October 2017 12: 23
      +4
      lacking only the normal regulation of civilian detention

      Well, if you have a license for a short-barreled GO, you probably know that this is generally a rotten question. Even if there is good regulation, it is technically correct to carry out the detention or even suppression of a crime against third parties.
      I have GO for 20 for years and before that I worked with weapons and have recently been engaged in practical ones, so it would not even enter my head to intervene with someone in a showdown. I’ll call the police and that’s it.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 20 October 2017 13: 24
        +1
        Quote: bk316
        I have GO for 20 for years and before that I worked with weapons and have recently been engaged in practical ones, so it would not even enter my head to intervene with someone in a showdown. I’ll call the police and that’s it.

        The exact same thing.
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 20 October 2017 19: 09
        +4
        Quote: bk316
        Well, if you have a license for a short-barreled GO, you probably know that this is generally a rotten question. Even if there is good regulation, it is technically correct to carry out the detention or even suppression of a crime against third parties.
        I have GO for 20 for years and before that I worked with weapons and have recently been engaged in practical ones, so it would not even enter my head to intervene with someone in a showdown. I’ll call the police and that’s it.

        The criminal threatens with a knife robbing the victim, you are behind the criminal and have a gun, what will you do? Call the police?
        Art. 37 CC RF
        1. It is not a crime to harm an infringing person in a state of necessary defense, that is, in the protection of the individual and the rights of the defending or other persons protected by law, the interests of society or the state from socially dangerous assault, if this encroachment was associated with violence dangerous to the life of the defending or other person , or with an immediate threat of such violence.
        The law allows a citizen to kill or injure an attacker, but does not give the right to detain him until the police arrive.
        And, yes, I don’t see anything terrible in using weapons against the criminal, it’s time for society to grow up and get out of the diaper of infantile hatskray.
    3. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 13: 29
      0
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      In addition, even the most ardent supporters of CSR civil trafficking permission do not mean by “free sale to the public” the sale of a short-barrel a la shaverma in any tent or shotgun, any adequate person understands that the sale of weapons is carried out according to strict rules and the owner must be mentally healthy, as well as fully prepared for the possession of weapons and the use of weapons.

      Any system crashes, so we occasionally come across psychos with legal (!) Hunting weapons, and psychos with a short barrel can also be added to them.
      1. your1970
        20 October 2017 14: 54
        +2
        Quote: SERGUS
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        In addition, even the most ardent supporters of CSR civil trafficking permission do not mean by “free sale to the public” the sale of a short-barrel a la shaverma in any tent or shotgun, any adequate person understands that the sale of weapons is carried out according to strict rules and the owner must be mentally healthy, as well as fully prepared for the possession of weapons and the use of weapons.

        Any system crashes, so we occasionally come across psychos with legal (!) Hunting weapons, and psychos with a short barrel can also be added to them.
        - you don’t even have to go far - Evsyukov everyone remembers (he was regularly examined) or well -

        how many thugs with guns - not psychos, no! thugs who even here in the comments manage to arrange a tantrum, I’m afraid to imagine. And then I really have to buy a cop - and shoot the first at anyone who seems to me at least a little suspicious ....
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 20 October 2017 18: 52
          +4
          Quote: your1970
          how many thugs with guns - not psychos, no! thugs who even here in the comments manage to arrange a tantrum, I’m afraid to imagine. And then I really have to buy a cop - and shoot the first at anyone who seems to me at least a little suspicious ....

          Well ... I’m watching tantrums mainly with opponents of weapons.
          1. SERGUS
            SERGUS 20 October 2017 20: 24
            +1
            Quote: Rakti-Kali
            Well ... I’m watching tantrums mainly with opponents of weapons.

            It’s just that the opponents of weapons have no hysteria, because taking into account the events in Ukraine, periodically repeated meetings of Navalny, the threat of terrorism and so on, well, they are generally discussing that it would be necessary to register pneumatics, and even if the short-barrel is not shining. So, just discussing, trying to find the truth.
      2. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 20 October 2017 18: 50
        +5
        Quote: SERGUS
        Any system crashes, so we occasionally come across psychos with legal (!) Hunting weapons, and psychos with a short barrel can also be added to them.

        Errors happen in any systems. There will be no more psychos with trunks - they simply will be distributed between CSR and Smoothbore. But the chances that a psycho will stop another armed citizen will be greater.
        1. SERGUS
          SERGUS 20 October 2017 19: 54
          +2
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          But the chances that a psycho will stop another armed citizen will be greater.

          And that you will come across a nut with a weapon of chances, too, more.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 21 October 2017 11: 48
            +4
            Quote: SERGUS
            And that you will come across a nut with a weapon of chances, too, more.

            No, you are mistaken - now this chance is even higher, because now a psycho can also get permission for a weapon and buy the same injury (which is easy to kill, but it is impossible to identify by the pool), but the attitude towards the injury is “non-lethal” weapons greatly reduces the threshold for its use, and liability for illegal obtaining permission also reduces.
            1. SERGUS
              SERGUS 24 October 2017 13: 01
              +1
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              but the attitude to injury as a "non-lethal" weapon greatly reduces the threshold for its use

              When a person uses traumatic weapons (especially if point blank), doesn’t he understand that this can be killed or crippled? Or when they aim at a head from an injury, does a person not understand that in the event of a hit it is death or for life? And we observe such situations during any showdown on the roads, etc. If people don’t have any responsibility here, and as you say because of the attitude to injury as a non-lethal weapon, where the guarantee that CSR will not work out the same way, and that those who apply injury today during any sort of showdown will not start tomorrow apply CSR, and what, now he’ll say to the fool in the leg so that he doesn’t get smart ...
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              you are mistaken - now this chance is even higher, because now a nut can also get permission for a weapon and buy the same injury (which is easier to kill, but it is impossible to identify by the pool)

              I don’t agree, with a trauma, a psycho can kill 1-2 people, he can do this with a kitchen knife, with CSR he can kill 5-10 people, the difference in mass numbers.
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 14: 23
                0
                Quote: SERGUS
                If people do not have responsibility here, and as you say, because of the attitude to injury as a non-lethal weapon, where is the guarantee that CSR will not work out the same way

                Just because you are so stubbornly opposing CSR is a gun, a real gun is a gun, which, as you say, is designed to kill, and everyone around you perceives the gun as weapon - a murder tool, and the injury is already damaged by its definition in the law as a weapon of limited destruction and is perceived not as a gun-tool-for-kill, but as a gang-bang-extension cord-male-penis ... Oh, excuse me, rubber-barrel extension cord- and fist amplifier. Hence, a much lower threshold for the use of traumatic weapons compared to even chemical weapons, not like with a rifled short-barrel.
                Quote: SERGUS
                and what, he’ll say right now that I’m burning this fool in the foot so that he won’t be smart ...

                When a CSR is prohibited, it can even fire (because it understands that you can answer it as much as possible), but honestly, knowing that “dypak” when you try to shoot him in the leg can shoot you in the chest, and not with a rubber spool, but with a real bullet, want to get the barrel just to assert itself?
                Quote: SERGUS
                I don’t agree, with a trauma, a psycho can kill 1-2 people, he can do this with a kitchen knife, with CSR he can kill 5-10 people, the difference in mass numbers.

                It makes no difference ... if I want, I will kill with a knife much more than with a gun (until they neutralize me), simply because the knife does not need to be recharged. And from 5 meters into the head, an injury is no less dangerous than a real gun.
                Well, and no one bothers in the law to limit the capacity of the CSR store, to limit the ammunition capacity of civilian self-defense weapons.
                1. SERGUS
                  SERGUS 24 October 2017 16: 06
                  +1
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  When a CSR is prohibited, it can even fire (because it understands that you can answer it as much as possible), but honestly, knowing that “dypak” when you try to shoot him in the leg can shoot you in the chest, and not with a rubber spool, but with a real bullet, want to get the barrel just to assert itself?

                  Come on, throw this logic of yours here, why does a man rush at another with his fists, because he can get injured and kill? Or why shoots with injuries at another person (in the course of a quarrel, not defense), although they can also shoot at him, and given the close range, this is most likely serious damage or death. Why does this not stop? The answer is, taking out a fighting pistol and shooting your “bad man” in your leg will mentally think that you will fall over and screaming oh how painful, even if you also have a pistol, don’t show any resistance, but scream oh, I wasn’t right, the principle of whoever starts works, he wins.
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  injury is already damaged by its definition in the law as a weapon of limited destruction

                  Injury is weapon, he kills and cripples, and if this weapon has not developed "discipline" (it is used in all kinds of showdowns on the roads, etc.) then, with the legalization of CSR, everyone will become kind and fluffy. If a person “poured” from a smoothbore right and left, then that, having bought a rifled carbine, he will be a good guy, since this weapon is more serious.
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  if desired, I will kill with a knife much more than a gun

                  Then why do you need a gun at all?
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 19: 08
                    0
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    Come on, drop this logic of yours.

                    Logic cannot be mine, feminine, or even any individually defined, logic is just logic, it is either there or it is not.
                    And yes, I won’t leave her. laughing
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    why does a man rush at another with his fists, because he can get injured and kill? Or why shoots with injuries at another person (in the course of a quarrel, not defense), although they can also shoot at him, and given the close range, this is most likely serious damage or death.

                    I already explained - the injury is not regarded as real threat to life.
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    The answer is, taking out a fighting pistol and shooting your “bad man” in your leg will mentally think that you will fall over and screaming oh how painful, even if you also have a pistol, don’t show any resistance, but scream oh, I wasn’t right, the principle of whoever starts works, he wins.

                    You think so because you do not believe in the vitality of people, you consider all people to be fatalists. This is actually not the case. In fact, a "bad person" may think that you fall into a cry oh how painful it is, if you also have injurybut not a real gun.
                    Well, about the principle of "who starts, he wins" - tell me, are you ready to die? Right now? Truly fall into darkness, suspense and non-existence? No? Not ready? Then why do you consider all intruders to be fatal commandos with elements of seers? And what, they all just think how to kill whom? No, well, seriously !? Yes, 99% of attacks are committed without the goal of killing anyone. And while the risk in such attacks for an attacker is reduced mainly to the possibility of getting on the physiognomy. And this is not the level that can make him abandon the attack. But the risk of dying is a much more serious argument, don’t you?
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    Injury is a weapon, it kills and cripples, and if this weapon has not developed “discipline” (it is used in all kinds of showdowns on the roads, etc.) then, with the legalization of CSR, everyone will become kind and fluffy.

                    I already wrote about this, I will not repeat myself. If you do not understand what I wrote or decided to troll the discussion, it becomes meaningless.
                    It was not necessary to call injury a weapon of limited defeat - either this weapon, or limited defeat, you can not be a little pregnant.
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    If a person “poured” from a smoothbore right and left, then that, having bought a rifled carbine, he will be a good guy, since this weapon is more serious.

                    You hihanki, and as practice showed in one of the states of the USA where they allowed hidden wearing from the 1972 or 1982 emnip (the name was forgotten), the owners of the short barrel for 10 years from the moment the permit was introduced began to break the law almost 20 times less than unarmed citizens.
                    Quote: SERGUS
                    Then why do you need a gun at all?

                    In order to avoid conflict situations and in case of impossibility of avoiding them, to minimize the level of negative consequences from them.
                    Well, I want a collection. repeat
                    1. SERGUS
                      SERGUS 25 October 2017 12: 24
                      +1
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      It was not necessary to call injury a weapon of limited defeat

                      Those. if kortkostvol is allowed, and in the law they call something like "a means of preventing an attack," will he not help?
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      You hihanki, and as practice has shown in one of the US states

                      Practice in the USA is a sad practice!
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      and if it is impossible to avoid them, to minimize the level of negative consequences from them.

                      You can solve problems with a knife!
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      If you do not understand what I wrote or decided to troll the discussion, it becomes meaningless.

                      The discussion becomes meaningless because everyone has their own truth. Supporters say he (a combat pistol) will help fight off criminals - and they are right, opponents say there will be quite a few casual victims - and they are also right. And I see a different way: when we have an effective police force, when our state takes care of raising children, everyone will have a normal job with a normal salary, a high standard of living, then crime will decrease to a minimum and everyone will be satisfied, but since we it does not threaten, let's go down from heaven to earth, i.e. in the present. What do we have now? Various polls are periodically conducted on the topic of CSR legalization, showing the most joyful for legalization supporters about 40% “for”, the rest even less, i.e. most people are against weapons and I don’t think it’s scary to go out without a gun! ! ! There is of course a referendum, well, no one will hold it, because the issue of legalizing CSR is not an acute issue in society. Why do I think so? Well, firstly, supporters of CSR in the internet to write some kind of proposal to the president often can’t collect 100 signatures, there is an organization "right to weapons", how many members are there? About 000. Yes, in some unfinished lot, the apple is 5 times more (000). Plus, if the legalization of CSR was acute in society, this question would periodically pop up "at the top": in direct lines, journalists would ask the president maybe it was time, there was no strength to endure. Don’t tell me that the problem is being specially hushed up, because if the problem had been acute, it would have surfaced (I repeat again). Do not tell me that society is not correctly informed (regarding the majority of “cons” in opinion polls)! Tell me, how many opponents of CSR do you manage to convince in the course of this forum? Something like this.
    4. Bosch
      Bosch 20 October 2017 14: 39
      +6
      Write everything correctly. The author, probably, has never encountered crime in his life, so he writes fables for preschoolers. If he was personally affected by either his relatives, his worldview on the topic of the short barrel would change radically.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  17. AleBors
    AleBors 20 October 2017 11: 49
    +2
    I fully support the author. A clear law on self-defense should be drawn up.
  18. Captain Nemo
    Captain Nemo 20 October 2017 12: 22
    +2
    I love the gun. And I really like to shoot him. But, with sadness, I must admit that in the words of the author there is a lot of homespun truth.
  19. vnord
    vnord 20 October 2017 12: 30
    0
    Quote: bk316
    When (if) it comes to an armed uprising against the government, then the long barrel will be much more effective. But HE IS PERMITTED ALREADY NOW.

    It’s not a problem (for a maximum of a month) to get a license for a length bar (if not a complete d.. beat and not a drug addict) and there’s no one to buy for sane money ..
  20. Curious
    Curious 20 October 2017 12: 44
    +2
    To bring into question some practical basis, I propose, as it is now fashionable, to conduct a social experiment. The base region for him to determine Moscow.
    Allow in Moscow the trade in firearms according to the American system, but only for people with a Moscow residence permit.
    A year later, analyze the results to arrive at a final decision.
    1. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 20 October 2017 13: 49
      +3
      Quote: Curious
      The base region for him to determine Moscow.

      A better Ukraine. One hell is not sorry for its inhabitants themselves.
    2. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 20 October 2017 18: 35
      +5
      Normally pushed back))) Maskvobod to make an experimental zone, I neighing !!!! In this abscess, so the civil war is going on (for a parking place, for a queue in a hospital, in traffic jams and TD and TP) using everything murderous (from loaf to Gandona) .In principle, the proposal can be considered, only with a thorn fence in six rows, and security on the perimeter with machine guns, so that no one is let out.
    3. Zheleznostop
      Zheleznostop 21 October 2017 08: 50
      +2
      The periphery will howl. Again Moscow? And why not Ryazan, the less people the easier it is to control.
  21. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 20 October 2017 12: 49
    +6
    Everything is in topic. The author is a fat plus.
    There is no need to comment (everything is correctly and accurately said, nothing is missed), as well as the desire to argue with those who want to have their own pistil (to argue with fools, only to become like).
    1. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 13: 36
      +3
      Quote: Al_lexx
      argue with fools, just become like

      I agree, we will begin to discuss the legalization of prostitution and drugs, and then there will be hundreds of supporters: we are not slaves, why they forbid us, in the Netherlands ... like children ...
  22. Clone
    Clone 20 October 2017 13: 08
    +8
    The article is a set of well-established and meaningless cliches that Russia is "not such a people." What is characteristic, opponents (with the rare exception) of granting citizens the indicated right can be united by one vulgar concept - "cops". Well, of course, hysterical white-ticket liberals adjoin them ... these are purely out of cowardice, as if nothing had happened ...
    My opinion.
    And what happens in the midst of our "law enforcement" and their assistants ...
    A freelance police officer in the fight against extremism in Rostov-on-Don stole 418 pistols, carbines and rifles, as well as 17 rounds of ammunition from the weapons storage room. The list of stolen goods is 400 pages long and costs more than 56 million rubles at black market prices. According to the investigation, the 12-year-old young man was engaged in embezzlement for seven months. In addition to the barrels confiscated from the violators and deposited, he stole material evidence... (with)
    https://news.rambler.ru/articles/38203215/?utm_co
    ntent = rnews & utm_medium = read_more & utm_sour
    ce = copylink
    These are the things. A good example of accounting and storage of weapons in the structure ... By law and with registration - in no case! And the "secret paths" - yes, any number.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  23. Colonel
    Colonel 20 October 2017 14: 04
    11
    It seems that the author is forcibly forced to purchase a barrel, and he rests. Author, do not want, do not take. Buy a bouquet of daisies, and when it comes back, guess - they will beat, they will not.
  24. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 20 October 2017 14: 19
    +8
    Including for this reason, not one of the cases of mass killings in the USA was prevented by the citizens themselves - with their over-armed

    This is called - no shame or conscience. The author, your happiness, that it’s impossible to swear ... That's what you are talking about? To make the massacre, it is necessary to kill. And in order to prevent a mass murder, it is necessary to capture or shoot the killer ... oops! The massacre did not become. Because it is prevented. Like several cases in American schools when potential shooters were shot by armed teachers or school workers.
    In general, before writing another crafty article, it’s useful to at least oversleep, there will be no such crazy mistakes ...
    1. your1970
      20 October 2017 15: 04
      +3
      give examples of prevention and, most importantly, EVIDENCE that the murdered school teacher had intent on the massacre ..... Or maybe he looked askance at them at the armed teachers ...
      And by the way - why are teachers armed? Who are they afraid on the school grounds?
      1. CooL_SnipeR
        CooL_SnipeR 20 October 2017 17: 32
        +4
        2 sv1970
        Do you know the instruction? He took out the barrel - shoot. Therefore, the police and shoot ... if a person pulls out his barrel, he will not please you. Rypnil - received a bullet. And it’s not necessary to consider “stupid” people and get scared of their numbers and complain that weapons are bad. How many were killed by police - so many became so stupid. Those against the police get the barrel - to whom they are not the law. And when they can kill you, and even for an average salary of 24 thousand a year (less than mine even in Russia) - you will shoot for the slightest movement ... believe me. I applied trauma 5 times ... "past" between the legs, and then I direct it to the head ... everyone immediately understands ... The problem with the weapon is its willingness to use it, not its presence!
        Z.Y. And to use 750m / s (AKBS magnum) in the head the shot is fatal from 6-7 meters 99% and 99% that you will not find without witnesses and cameras. Therefore, if allowed, it is better to have a shorted barrel shot.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 20 October 2017 18: 45
        +6
        Quote: your1970
        EVIDENCE that the murdered school teacher was intent on the massacre

        They’ll kill you, then come. Ugh. What can you talk about with a slave? Our ancestors went armed for thousands of years, used weapons ... prevented mass killings, huh. And now we can’t. We have now become defective ...
        1. your1970
          21 October 2017 19: 34
          0
          I’m embarrassed to ask about thousands years armed ??? You are apparently from Ukraine .... all the rest, like in 200 years of mass existence of a more or less decent gunshot, did it ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  25. Taoist
    Taoist 20 October 2017 14: 25
    +4
    I agree with the author on almost all points. And by the way, regarding item 7 I came to absolutely the same calculations. Semi-automatic type Saigi with a couple of interchangeable stores in which including and "non-lethal" cartridges are much more effective for home defense than any most sophisticated pistol. More universal and safer.
    And yes, I'm not a cop and not a liberal, and certainly not a white ticket ...
  26. Black5Raven
    Black5Raven 20 October 2017 14: 33
    +7
    Author, develop a theme.
    Pneumatics can be redone and kill her - forbid!
    From signal pistols you can make a battle - to ban!
    Shotguns can be stolen - forbid!
    They can steal from the police, run away from the army with weapons - a ban !!!
    You can do it yourself - prohibit creating.

    It is no good for serfs to think for gentlemen, pray and consume.
    1. your1970
      20 October 2017 15: 15
      +2
      and where does the gentlemen come in? buy a smooth-bore trunk for self-defense of your beloved (you don’t even need to enter the hunting community)
      And if you hint at a fear of power - then the example of the US police in relation to blaming against the authorities is considered in sufficient detail in the article.
      And for you personally, it’s a secret that a smooth-bore gun when applied at short distances is much more effective than a pistol: a) the probability of falling shots into unprotected (body armor / helmet) body parts is much higher than a single pistol bullet, 2) the pain shock from the buckshot is not less, but and more as a result of several hits, unlike one pistol, 3) when shooting with a hunting bullet, the blow is much higher due to the much larger mass of the bullet than the pistol ....
      Proven by the entire US Army - actively using trench guns for over 70 years
      1. bk316
        bk316 20 October 2017 18: 43
        +4
        smooth barrel when applying at short distances is much more effective than a pistol

        Not the word, just hold a cartridge with 8mm buckshot 12/76 in your hands and everything will become clear. This is me without taking into account that the Boar-12 is a semiautomatic device. And to be honest, looking at 03 is not that long barrel, it allows you to move the aiming point very quickly. In general, after many years of reflection, I came to the conclusion that the short-barrel should not be allowed. And to protect the family home and by the way cars are long enough barrel.

        And whoever does not believe, let him sign up for practical shooting and perform an exercise involving shooting at several targets with a pistol and a boar, it’s easier for her with a boar. And if he’s sports - in general a song.
    2. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 15: 50
      +6
      Quote: Black5Raven
      Pneumatics can be redone and kill her - forbid!
      From signal pistols you can make a battle - to ban!
      Shotguns can be stolen - forbid!

      Yes, yes, yes, you can kill with a frying pan, ban, kill with a fist ... only A. You can kill one person with a frying pan and a kitchen knife, and even this isn’t a fact, but a gun that has played computer games can kill a person with a gun 5 -10. B. The author says that it is not necessary to add to the available objects with which you can kill, objects that are directly designed to kill. B. Remaking pneumatics, making it yourself is nonsense, because these are criminal offenses, and if the criminal liability does not bother you, then just buy a short barrel not legally and why ask for permission?
      Quote: Black5Raven
      It is no good for serfs to think for gentlemen, pray and consume.

      If you are again this nonsense that only slaves did not have weapons and so on, then let's legalize drugs, we are not slaves, not serfs, and should have freedom, or let's legalize prostitution, we are not serfs, free, that is what we want to do - slaves are not slaves, the logic of young children, by God, everything should be allowed within reason!
    3. The comment was deleted.
  27. FenrirXnumx
    FenrirXnumx 20 October 2017 15: 14
    +5
    The same will happen with us: the security forces will be forced to shoot at ANY armed man at the slightest insubordination to them.

    And they will do it right. It is high time for them to start doing so. The police must suppress all resistance to it - armed and unarmed. Because she is power.
    It is in this way that society will develop respect for power and gradually order will come.
    And the presence of weapons among citizens will entail the self-discipline of these citizens and reduce the infantilism of modern society, where today, most people out of Soviet habit dream of the state wiping their ass.
    1. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 16: 09
      +1
      Quote: Fenrir48
      where today, most people, out of Soviet habit, dream of the state wiping their ass.

      Well, if you prefer the wild west, where there is no hope for the police, but there is only you and the Colt, and you do justice yourself ... So go to stupid Americans, and arrange your duels there!
      1. FenrirXnumx
        FenrirXnumx 20 October 2017 16: 53
        +5
        Quote: SERGUS
        if you prefer the wild west, where there is no hope for the police

        Do you like it when anyone spits on the police or rushes with fists anyone who is greyhound enough for this?
        I don’t, because the spit on the police is a spit on the state. And if everyone wipes his feet about the state, then the latter will soon turn into dust.
        As it is said here and there: "If you do evil, be afraid, for he does not carry a sword in vain ..."
        And the West has nothing to do with it and there is no need to fasten it everywhere.
        1. SERGUS
          SERGUS 20 October 2017 19: 40
          +1
          Quote: Fenrir48
          Do you like it when anyone spits on the police or rushes with fists anyone who is greyhound enough for this?

          So you want these greyhounds to start shooting at the cops?
          Quote: Fenrir48
          And the West has nothing to do with it and there is no need to fasten it everywhere.

          Moreover, for as an example we constantly give them. We have already spied their democracy, now we don’t know how to digest this rubbish.
          1. FenrirXnumx
            FenrirXnumx 20 October 2017 21: 38
            +2
            Quote: SERGUS
            So you want these greyhounds to start shooting at the cops?

            Of course I want. If the case is set up correctly, such artists will end in a couple of months and this will benefit the whole normal society. The abscess has long been festering - it must be opened.
            Quote: SERGUS
            Moreover, for as an example we constantly give them

            Here we are discussing the sale of a short-barrel to citizens - this practice existed in a thousand-year-old historical Russia. So you can forget for a while about the Soviets and the decaying west and turn to the roots.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. SERGUS
              SERGUS 24 October 2017 13: 28
              0
              Quote: Fenrir48
              We are discussing the sale of short-barrel to citizens here - this practice existed in millennial historical Russia.

              For 1 years, the world has changed a lot, problems must be resolved within the framework of the law, not duels.
              1. FenrirXnumx
                FenrirXnumx 24 October 2017 13: 36
                0
                Here is the situation - you wake up at night and hear that thieves are walking in the next room, and your wife and children are in the house with you. You have no weapons in the bedside table, since you are his ardent opponent.
                So solve the situation within the law. Get on your knees and crawl - maybe you'll stay alive.
                1. SERGUS
                  SERGUS 24 October 2017 17: 27
                  +1
                  Quote: Fenrir48
                  Here is the situation - you wake up at night and hear that thieves are walking in the next room, and your wife and children are in the house with you.

                  This situation is nonsense! For if you didn’t get drunk drunk with your wife and children (!) And didn’t throw the front door open, this situation is practically impossible, and you can wake up with a knife near the throat and a gun in the nightstand will not help you laughing .
                  Quote: Fenrir48
                  You are his ardent opponent.

                  I’m not ardent against weapons, and I generally respect the weapon, the hunter himself, I just think that combat pistols are superfluous, they will definitely help someone, but I think that there will be more troubles from them, especially considering that the injury did not instill discipline in us weapons, and do not say that this is because it is not a lethal weapon, it is a weapon that cripples and kills. And to protect the house, there is a smoothbore, and an injury that cripples from 2 meters is not much worse than a combat one.
    2. Glory1974
      Glory1974 20 October 2017 16: 42
      +2
      It is in this way that society will develop respect for power and gradually order will come.

      We probably have our own path in Russia. Another. But if the police shoot everyone in a row, I'm afraid everyone will leave for the partisans.
  28. Tishka
    Tishka 20 October 2017 15: 17
    +4
    In the process, everyone is right, and those who are for, and those who are against! But a little thought, the police have weapons, they are supposed to be in the state, it’s another matter that you won’t wait for them, when they’ll beat you up, then call! The prosecutor’s employees, it’s also evident that they are supposed to be in the state, the deputies also got the right to wear and store, they also have to collect the money in the state, they carry money, and they are regularly attacked by criminal elements, the rights to either acquire and they don’t have a carrying, but they don’t give a damn about it, they got it for themselves! So, only the people have the right to a long-barrel, provided that he collects a bunch of certificates and proves by membership in the club that he, an avid hunter, and with a slingshot, hunts hard! I don’t know how there, in other countries, and on other continents with this matter, but after the end of World War II, few people brought anything from the front! Then, too, it was on hand, there were a lot of weapons, and what is strange, they didn’t shoot each other until Nikita, fearing for his carcass, ordered to deliver the entire firearm! So, to say that a man with a pistol will immediately become the subject of pistol production, in my opinion it’s not very logical, the bandits have everything from assault rifles to explosives, and where is the chance that this one with a gun will not turn out to be quicker and will not overwhelm you before you do it! A fresh example, the deputy, 2 steps from the Kremlin, arranged from an award pistol, shooting at the hotel, did not like the service! An old example, Yesyukov, with a pistol, shot a bunch of people, shooting like in a shooting gallery, because he has a gun, and the people have no weapons! I don’t think that one of his victims suggested that he wait a bit while he was running home, behind his canopy, to repulse him! A gun, in a string bag, no one was found! And I don’t think that, as if he were not drunk, he began to swing his pistol and practice shooting at live targets, knowing that he could get back a pair of lead pills to calm him down! On Lesnaya Street in Moscow, a former Interior Ministry official shot and killed a resident of the southern republic, with whom he didn’t share the road, the former can see that the weapons were also laid, another conversation, what happened if a pensioner grabbed a gun! So, the authorities will not take this step in order to allow the people, albeit for their money, to acquire a gun, suddenly he will think up this very people, use it against his own authority, for which he voted, and elected everything by popular vote! They won’t even decide to ban children's toys, otherwise such an infection will fly into the window with a grenade when they pass another law, introducing another tax to make the life of the people better! Indeed, why do people need weapons, you can walk with a frying pan, so far it has not fallen into the category of weapons, most importantly, it will learn how to throw it, over long distances, and near. you can beat her and a bullet if you're lucky!
    1. your1970
      20 October 2017 16: 28
      +2
      Quote: Silence
      An old example, Yesyukov, with a pistol, shot a bunch of people, shooting like in a shooting gallery, because he has a gun, and the people have no weapons! I don’t think that one of his victims suggested that he wait a bit while he was running home, behind his canopy, to repulse him! A gun, in a string bag, no one was found! And I don’t think that, as if he were not drunk, he began to swing his pistol and practice shooting at live targets, knowing that he could get back a pair of lead pills to calm him down!
      - now guess - if he was in uniform and would have killed him - would it be considered self-defense or an attack on a police officer (with poor footage and some incomprehensible camera recordings - who started shooting earlier?) ??!
      1. Tishka
        Tishka 24 October 2017 10: 54
        0
        If a couple of dozens of bullets were found in it, from different barrels, then the difficult question is, who to plant? But our justice, will condemn everyone who can’t pay off, it’s better to be alive in prison than at the cemetery!
    2. SERGUS
      SERGUS 20 October 2017 16: 34
      +1
      Quote: Silence
      A fresh example, the deputy, 2 steps from the Kremlin, arranged from an award pistol, shooting at the hotel, did not like the service!

      Quote: Silence
      On Lesnaya Street in Moscow, a former Interior Ministry official shot and killed a resident of the southern republic with whom he didn’t share the road.

      And how many such cases will there be when the short barrel becomes mass?
      1. Tishka
        Tishka 24 October 2017 10: 56
        +1
        But I doubt that the sane citizens, knowing that the opponent can also have weapons, will start to wave them, suddenly, he will be more accurate! And criminals will not be so arrogant, because of what can be obtained in response!
        1. SERGUS
          SERGUS 24 October 2017 17: 56
          0
          Quote: Silence
          But I doubt that sane citizens, knowing that the opponent can also have weapons, will begin to wave it

          Then why do we shoot from a trauma (during a quarrel, not self-defense) at a person, knowing that the opponent can also have one, and suddenly he (the opponent) gets into the head, and from close range consider it death?
          1. Tishka
            Tishka 25 October 2017 00: 22
            +1
            So the trauma, they perceive it as a scarecrow, not a war trunk, they tried it, even a down jacket doesn’t break through, and they think that they can be waved and put into action, as the argument goes, as an argument! But when, from him, two children of the mountains were shot in the course of self-defense, then the girl was given a term, although the cop passed by and did not even intervene! So hope for the guards! Although he himself fell under the hand, when a scumbag, he almost shot me through the head, and the funny thing is, he has a trunk, turned out to be on a legal basis, he works as a collector! It is a pity that then, there was no trunk, I would have nailed the reptile!
            1. SERGUS
              SERGUS 25 October 2017 12: 46
              +1
              Quote: Silence
              So injury, perceived as a scarecrow

              I repeat once again: when a person during a quarrel with a trauma aims at the opponent’s head, he doesn’t understand what it is either deathor disability. And then where is the confidence that he will not do this with combat?
            2. your1970
              25 October 2017 14: 48
              0
              Quote: Silence
              Although he himself fell under the hand, when a scumbag, he almost shot me through the head, and the funny thing is, he has a trunk, turned out to be on a legal basis, he works as a collector!
              -and would you have a barrel ?! It would turn out that he at work and killed YOU in the framework of self-defense protecting yourself, values ​​and people !!!
              Already wrote, people supporters of the short barrel give a bunch of examples - when the cop would be against them
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. igorka357
      igorka357 22 October 2017 11: 31
      0
      Yeah, about the gangs you turned down, you should go deeper into history! After the war, almost all the gangs and individual criminals were armed, almost everyone had a gun, and especially serious gangs and PPSh with “schmeissers” were seized .. so it’s not a topic, don’t write! Or do you think that machine gunners were just assigned to trackers going to “raspberries”? And there were 90% of 100% corpses with a firearm ... the rest of the carriage is cutting. And yet, you probably think the court would took into account your words "I saw Yevsyukov aiming me from a pistol, took out my own, and shot him for self-defense" ... point, you have a special 20k minimum, and from these terms and even having killed a colleague, his colleagues will vryat your colleagues ... The people here are not against the short-barrels, but with the proper laws ... and in Russia, a drunk man who came upon you will be frightened by your bake, he’ll scream “let's shoot” in a drunken stupor and shout at you, well .. It’s necessary to shoot or it can cripple .. point, you need at least 10k ... since they exceeded! Until you if they’re seriously damaged, you don’t have the right to give a decisive rebuff even at home, and you’ll immediately allow it ... until there are normal firm laws and regulations, the short-barrel will do so many troubles, you won’t rake it for a hundred years! naughty at the top, and the frightened concierge got his ... bang, there is a corpse ... and this is just a small episode, a deputy in heaven, the concierge is sitting. An employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs got it, a resident of the southern republic got it, heaped a couple of onlookers in the park ... corpses no-no, without strict laws, no baking in the people!
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 13: 02
        0
        Quote: igorka357
        Unless you are seriously damaged, you have no right to decisively rebuff even at home, and you will immediately allow it ... until there are normal firm laws and regulations, the short-barrel will do so many troubles, you won’t rake it for a hundred years!

        Read Article 37 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation and be enlightened.
        1. igorka357
          igorka357 22 October 2017 13: 05
          0
          I wrote to you, do you not know how to read, or is it trouble with logic?
      2. Tishka
        Tishka 24 October 2017 11: 00
        +1
        Actually, you didn’t understand the essence, after the war, the people had a lot of weapons on their hands, and that’s strange, and they drank quite a lot, and what’s amazing, they didn’t shoot the nation, as our deputies now assure, that there will be a sea of ​​blood and mountains corpses, it was they themselves who prescribed the law that they are allowed to wear a short barrel!
        1. your1970
          24 October 2017 17: 22
          0
          Quote: Silence
          Actually, you didn’t understand the essence, after the war, the people had a lot of weapons on their hands, and that’s strange, and they drank quite a lot, and what’s amazing, they didn’t shoot the nation, as our deputies now assure, that there will be a sea of ​​blood and mountains corpses, it was they themselves who prescribed the law that they are allowed to wear a short barrel!
          - And you look how much then gave the Criminal Code for illegal weapons on hand !!! And read about the OBB, who had authority over the roof !!!
          "- But if it’s bad, then in connection with the special danger of your gang, I have an instruction not to take you alive. Does this option suit you?" © MVIN
          And ANY attributed to the gang could easily be - whoever was taken with a weapon and the term would be rather sick (or high). There were no fools for show-offs at that time, no one carried valuables in the form of iPhones, and the people were stronger (morally and physically) - in order to start firing from swearing right away. Muzzle stuff is yes, forever please ...
          Therefore, those who then had weapons (NOT GANGS !!!) kept them far and well hidden.
          1. Tishka
            Tishka 25 October 2017 00: 27
            0
            That's right, but they didn’t shoot, but because of the danger, you shouldn’t take the living, so for God's sake, then the police defended their citizens! And now, the outfit left for the place, according to the complaint of the tenants, they say the neighbors are noisy, they interfere with sleep. The outfit climbed into the apartment, as a result, one flew out the window, the other was lowered from the stairs, both were left without a service weapon, it turned out that the apartment was robbed, the smarter than all, the driver turned out to be, he just did not get out of the car! Then they showed these defenders of law and order, presented for a reward!
  29. Glory1974
    Glory1974 20 October 2017 16: 39
    +3
    Thanks to the author of your 1970. For the first time in a lot of time I am reading a balanced and reasoned article. everything is laid out on the shelves, and even with the use of their experience. I do not agree with all the arguments, but we can conduct a discussion on the points, and as a result come to a consensus. The article is a definite plus.
  30. Taoist
    Taoist 20 October 2017 17: 22
    +4
    By the way, an interesting observation - even on this topic ... Why is it that those who are against the short-barrel are clearly and with arguments trying to explain their position and why, in fact, they consider such weapons to be dangerous.
    But the supporters of the "legalization" for some reason mostly hysteria and "throw banana skins" ...?

    "Swaboda, swaboda ..." (c)
    1. bk316
      bk316 20 October 2017 18: 56
      +4
      For some reason, those who are against the short-barreled, clearly and with arguments, are trying to explain their position and why, in fact, they consider such weapons to be dangerous.

      It seems to me that this is because those who are against "legalization" for the most part either have a short-barreled (or had), or long-barrels and are judged on the basis of experience, while those who advocate "legalization" have no experience (again in bulk) and that’s why based on their general principles of "freedom", "private property" and "non-slavery"
    2. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 21 October 2017 18: 52
      +6
      About what you can discuss with people who use the concepts of "free distribution (sale) of weapons", "will begin to swing their trunks left and right", "weapons in the hands of a debi .. (sorry admin - stupid people)", "do not like it, get out countries, "etc. And here I am, although retired, served 25 calendars, twice in hot spots. But I am for the short-barrel for normal, sane people. Although I have an injury and Saigu 12K, I could have gotten an illegal short-barrel if I wanted to.
      1. igorka357
        igorka357 22 October 2017 11: 47
        +2
        Forgive me, of course, you are moving along the roads of Russia, there aren’t normal ones ... I just cut it off ... if the trunk is completely open ... the scumbag can just shoot you in the face! You look what’s going on there, fortunately we have a town small, and it’s chaos, mostly shit .. well, in the sense of 19–25 years old, do you also propose to allow them? Laws first, laws ... hard and hard laws! You say normal, I consider myself a normal but quick-tempered person, I’m always going through a psychologist and a psychiatrist for work at five, imagine a situation, I accidentally cut a car, wanted to apologize, I have a wife and children in my car .. five normal adequate young guys got out of another car and shouted “what are you doing ... ..we right now "get into our pants for baking, and that’s exactly what our greyhound will do ... of course there will be no intention to kill, but will teach a dumb guy .. they’re grabbing bits right away without baking! That's it, point .. I I won’t check their intentions on my family, because I also have baking, and I can still let myself I’ll pour three of them through, I’ll immediately bring it down .. until I turn blue, or until they fill me up! The result is that I’m alive, adequate and normal until the end of my days in prison, adequate, normal guys in the cemetery! But if there is a law, for example, that a threat with a weapon is tantamount to its use, and carries a harsh punishment .. yes, what am I talking about, there are still five hundred of such harsh laws! I will express my opinion again .. the laws are not ready for permission for a short barrel, not ready!
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 13: 04
          0
          Quote: igorka357
          But if there is a law, for example, that a threat with a weapon is tantamount to its use, and bears severe punishment ... what am I talking about, there are five hundred more such strict laws!

          To get started, read the Criminal Code, there you will find a lot of hitherto unknown to you.
      2. your1970
        25 October 2017 14: 50
        +1
        Quote: Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
        And here I am, although retired, served 25 calendars, twice in hot spots. But I am for the short-barrel for normal, sane people.
        - Yevsyukov was also a normal sane person ... So the commissions wrote ...
        Who 100% guarantees the normality and sanity ????
        1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 25 October 2017 20: 53
          +1
          Based on this position, then all of us (including you!) Are not normal and not sane. Proceeding from this, it is necessary to introduce external control in Russia, disarm the army and all power structures (there are insane!), Disperse the government (though they are their own, but just in case), leave the people only spoons (they can kill each other with a fork!) . I don’t know how the others are, but I do not agree with your position.
          1. your1970
            25 October 2017 22: 14
            +1
            Read the news feed for the week ....
            Psychiatrists quite seriously argue that now there are no completely mentally healthy people. Stresses, fears, phobias, aggression, competition, etc. Not only here, in a more or less civilized world ..

            In my life there was a case - when I rushed at a person for a trifling reason, thank God they dragged me away. I was wildly ashamed then, he was an ordinary person, not some kind of nasty thing, I went to apologize later. So it happened, my eyes closed red ...
            But if there were no one or they would not have kept me - I would have scored him guaranteed. About to shoot - I wouldn’t stop for a second. Or the opposite situation - I would get a bullet from him because of nonsense.
            But now I know that I, for example, just like that (except for hunting, but there is practically no people thank God) should not wear it. Only if you really really bake ..

            And 9/10 commentators of VO - they are ready to jump out of the screen and cling to the throat - both supporters and opponents of the Constitutional Court. Here is a classic example of a CS supporter (from another article, it’s true but characteristic)
            WapentakeLokki - "or you're not a man, but slush. To show off means to say, and you will keep silent when you and your wife are disgraced, rub yourself and drain to the house through the iron door and there you are a hero and who if not you if not I. who will stop them. And they won’t save you the walls will come to you, and you take off your pants in advance, which is already habitual there, but you are LIBERAST. "
            Of the comments of the opponents of the Constitutional Court - there are absolutely no ardent tantrums, but there are also frightening comments
            1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
              Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 25 October 2017 22: 34
              +1
              There are always enough hysterics. Including in. I personally am calm about having a weapon. He shot only once from a trauma that I have owned for several years - and then in order to disperse a pack of dogs. The Saigu, which he drove in the trunk for several years, never even got out to scare anyone away. My attitude to the short-barrel is somewhat different - I need a powerful compact weapon that I could take into the forest without fear of being accused of poaching. There are still enough predators in the forests of the Vologda region. Although some huntsman in the forest is unlikely to come up with a Saiga on my shoulder, I’m still a law-abiding person.
  31. Wolka
    Wolka 20 October 2017 17: 48
    +1
    with all of this, anyway, I’ll stay at my place, the short-barrel, like all private property, has its rights and obligations, and most importantly there is nothing to be confused ... ready for these conditions, no, then it’s better not to even try.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. Nemesis
    Nemesis 20 October 2017 19: 27
    +7
    I read your epic. I don't know knowingly, or out of ignorance, but you distorted the facts ... 1) The number of serious crimes sharply increased in Australia and in New York after the ban on civilian weapons. So your songs about the fact that civilian weapons do not prevent anything from simple lies. Yes, there will be a court, but the legislation in the USA is not the current legislation in the Russian Federation and there they can actually shoot you, and on completely legal grounds, of which there are many in the USA. If you hit a person in the United States, he will shoot you and they will justify him for a stolen bucket of potatoes, they may not kill you, but they will shoot him in the ass with a shotgun and pick out the shot in the prison hospital. 2) Civilian weapons have never been and will not become a threat to the government, because army weapons are always better, not to mention that the army and internal troops have armored vehicles and combat aircraft, which farmers simply can’t compete with armed revolvers and shotguns ,anyway. 3) All your other arguments come down to the fact that you are afraid of weapons and the armed population. There may be two reasons. Or you are not sure of your mental stability and judge others by yourself. Or you are a criminal and you, for obvious reasons, do not need arming your potential victims.
    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 21 October 2017 18: 54
      +4
      Well said, fully support.
    2. your1970
      21 October 2017 21: 16
      +1
      Under item 2, I replied to a fairly frequent comment that “the state is afraid of the people and therefore does not give permission for the Constitutional Court, '' I gave examples from the life of the United States that clearly say that for a stable state the presence of the Constitutional Court is not a problem for the authorities
  34. Victor Detective South
    Victor Detective South 20 October 2017 19: 54
    +4
    Korotkostvol can and should be in any respectable citizen of the appropriate status. Smooth trunks just do not shoot, much more often the criminal people are felled.
  35. Surskoy
    Surskoy 21 October 2017 02: 40
    +5
    I live in a country in which the short-barrel was banned eight years ago. And I have been living in it since 2002. I myself had a small arsenal that helped me avoid problems a couple of times. Now there is only an adjoining crossbow, for which they can give a term. It’s wild, somehow, remembering how before revolvers were sold in household stores ...
    So what am I leading ... I can compare how things were before and how now. For example, a couple of years ago I was strung on a knife, and I could not oppose anything to that Negro. To be honest, I just collapsed from its dimensions and addictive aggressive eyes. No, I did not squeal from fear, fought off to the last, I am sure that this saved my life, although I lost a lot of blood and became disabled.
    Well, now a comparison with my young years. It was the case, he attacked me alone. It was enough to spend one cartridge of the 38th caliber launched into the asphalt in front of its paws, so that the incident would subside before it started. Another time they shot me, I didn’t understand why. More precisely, not in me, but in my alone house. I answered with a shot in the air and everything calmed down. It is not known what would happen if these enigmatic personalities did not hear my turning point in action
    Here are examples from two societies. From one, where a person can stand up for himself, and from another, where his own rulers disarmed and left naked in front of criminals
    Even the conclusions are too lazy to print. Personal experience suggests that even with the risk of falling into jail for a couple of years, my self-gunner will continue to be hidden in a secluded place at home and, sometimes, a car
    1. Dmitry Fedorov
      Dmitry Fedorov 21 October 2017 10: 51
      +1
      You probably need a weapon.
      But it’s even more important to review something in life.
      You live in a wild field in which strange things happen.
      Run from there.
    2. igorka357
      igorka357 22 October 2017 11: 55
      +2
      So it’s so, from your youth .. it was lucky that your counterpart who was shot under his feet didn’t have a short barrel, yes, admit it ... as soon as you turned away you were with a bullet in your head .. and oops, you shot the first one, you attacked, itog..vy we have not been contacted, and your killer walks and hums on! and from the recent "two years ago" nigger like you or strung on a knife and just killed with five meters, and robbed! Stick the two ends, always!
  36. asr55
    asr55 21 October 2017 02: 44
    +7
    The opinion of the author, who was in addition to military service, is surprising. Why is everyone considered fools. Why are you there in the service did not shoot each other then. After all, millions of hunting rifles are not used massively outside of hunting. And not everyone is given permission to them. Everything that is issued is recorded and verified. The responsibility of people who own military weapons is increasing. It is necessary to finalize the legislation on the possession, carrying and use of weapons up to training. And how many unofficial weapons on hand, much more than registered. Why give statistics here, when the motives, reasons for application, etc. are not even known. You don’t have to dump everything. And when the whole Caucasus with injuries walks, what’s better for you. With a combat pistol, everything is differently respected author.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 22 October 2017 11: 58
      +1
      So you don’t mind .. but you yourself said, I quote "it is necessary to finalize the legislation on possession, wearing and application up to training" .. this is completely different, people yell "immediately allow. We are not slaves" ....
  37. Zheleznostop
    Zheleznostop 21 October 2017 08: 40
    +1
    The world is full of losers, with a topop in his hand.
    And boys with fingers on the trigger. (c) Ballad on weapons V.S. Vysotsky.
  38. Antoxa iglinsky
    Antoxa iglinsky 21 October 2017 10: 19
    +4
    "but there was no more experience keeping pistols at home, thank God." After this, you can, in principle, not read further. A man who voluntarily abandoned possession of weapons. Slave mentality, for us the norm, alas.
    1. Dmitry Fedorov
      Dmitry Fedorov 21 October 2017 10: 47
      +2
      Professional.
      I would also refuse.
      Because he served in the army.
      1. Walking
        Walking 21 October 2017 13: 03
        +6
        Quote: Dmitry Fedorov
        Professional.


        On the contrary, not a professional. Which is afraid of weapons and possible responsibility.
        1. your1970
          21 October 2017 21: 25
          +1
          I have a legal length - I have enough of it for my eyes for self-defense ... I don’t roam about vain places, I do not live in a megalopolis, where people regularly grab bits for roads ..
      2. Antoxa iglinsky
        Antoxa iglinsky 21 October 2017 18: 40
        +1
        What does the army have to do with it? And a woman or a disabled person is not worthy to own weapons?
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 13: 10
        +2
        Quote: igorka357
        That is, you dear ss..kun, that you need a gun to defend yourself .. yes, a hero! Fu is an abomination!

        And why should a person not have a "pistol"? Suddenly, a person who is healthy and adequate is a 45 kilogram girl, or a healthy, strong guy, but on prostheses, or an inconspicuous average peasant - an asthmatic, or a strong healthy woman, but with a child in a stroller, or ... or ...
        They all fight hand-to-hand too?
        1. your1970
          22 October 2017 14: 12
          0
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Quote: igorka357
          That is, you dear ss..kun, that you need a gun to defend yourself .. yes, a hero! Fu is an abomination!

          And why should a person not have a "pistol"? Suddenly, a person who is healthy and adequate is a 45 kilogram girl, or a healthy, strong guy, but on prostheses, or an inconspicuous average peasant - an asthmatic, or a strong healthy woman, but with a child in a stroller, or ... or ...
          They all fight hand-to-hand too?
          - I also described the problem with these categories of citizens and problems with the ability of IM to own the COP in the article ..

          It looks like the article was not read / read / in pieces / read only what I liked ....
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 21: 10
            0
            Quote: your1970
            - I also described the problem with these categories of citizens and problems with the ability of IM to own the COP in the article ..
            It looks like the article was not read / read / in pieces / read only what I liked ....

            Are you talking about point 5? I read, you wrote nonsense there. The fact is that when these categories of citizens are offered to "go kung fu" or "run" this is a mockery, but learning how to extract, put them into a state of battle, aiming and hitting an attacking ghoul is not a problem for them. So in vain do you slander me in vain.
            1. your1970
              23 October 2017 17: 05
              +1
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              Are you talking about point 5? I read, you wrote nonsense there. The fact is that when these categories of citizens are offered to "go kung fu" or "run" this is a mockery, but learning how to extract, put them into a state of battle, aiming and hitting an attacking ghoul is not a problem for them. So in vain do you slander me in vain.
              -nonsense whatin p.5 ?? that tirov NO?????? !!!!!!!!!!!! The fact that the cost of creating a TIRA rolls over even by urban standards ??? !!!
              At present, there are shooting galleries ONLY in BIG CITIES (at least 700 -000 million in number!) - what about the rest of the population? What will they allow tomorrow to do the cops and make me / fragile girl / disabled person - if the shooting gallery is 1 km away (and this okay, in Siberia I looked there are places where 300 - 500 km is easy)? Just so we sell trunks to us - they say you will learn ??
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 00: 25
                +1
                Quote: your1970
                -difference in Chem p.5 ?? that there is NO TIER ?????? !!!!!!!!!!! In that the cost of creating a TIRA rolls over even by urban standards ??? !!!

                What is the difficulty of creating a shooting gallery? A 25-meter gallery is enough for shooting from KSO, which means that such shooting ranges can be organized even in the basement and basement floors of high-rise buildings, only soundproofing can be done and sand and logs should be brought in for the machine gun. And the organization of the CWC, KCB, target field and shooting positions is generally simple.
                Another thing is that NOW demand there’s simply no dash.
                1. your1970
                  24 October 2017 07: 53
                  +1
                  look GOST on the equipment of a closed shooting range - you will be stunned by the requirements ......
                  Churbaki, cellars .... Aha !!! Armor steel, etc.
                  And ENTs will never lower the requirements - simply because it is written in the legislative framework .. And no one will cancel GOST, weapons, no one will take such responsibility.
                  There are practically no shooting galleries in the country, the cops are shooting at quarries - simply because the ENT police chief can turn off horns and he can deprive them of bonuses ....
                  Well, I didn’t just write like that - in my mid-200s, a friend of mine wanted to organize a hunting club with a shooting gallery. At that time, no less 300 bucks to create (and this is without bribes !!!) - he calculated (several times, including with the help of specialists) and abandoned this venture ..
                  one CWC equipment is already pulling the dough immeasurably - a dedicated room with a certain wall thickness, a door, safes for weapons, security, alarm ...
                  Private security companies at one time hung up with KHO - when they began to measure reinforcing bars on a thin part of the bar (there were subspecies of rolled metal in the USSR) and it turned out that 0,5 mm was not enough for the required thickness.
                  Yes corny - 10 barrels (+ some cartridges) for students immediately without a hitch 300 000 rubles minimum

                  it would be so simple, there would be shooting galleries like dirt, there’s a demand now and rather big — I would love to shoot for example. I’m NOT against shooting clubs — where people would come to shoot with club weapons — I just think that it’s there would be an option of inculcating an armory culture, and only then after 10 years to resolve the issue with the Constitutional Court.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 11: 29
                    +1
                    Quote: your1970
                    look GOST on the equipment of a closed shooting range - you will be stunned by the requirements ......
                    Churbaki, cellars .... Aha !!! Armor steel, etc.

                    Take a look. The main criterion is bulletproof and indestructible barriers at certain loads, the material is often not regulated. In other words, the rules of the device of shooting ranges have requirements for the effect, and not for the method of achieving it. That is, any materials can be used, the main thing is that they meet the requirements of the rules and pass the tests.
                    Quote: your1970
                    There are practically no shooting galleries in the country

                    Because there is not enough demand for them, because it is expensive, and expensive because there are few users. The user base will be expanded - shooters, the demand for shooting gallery services will increase, shooting ranges will become massive, which will lead to lower prices for their services and for ammunition.
                    Quote: your1970
                    one equipment CWC will pull the dough nemeryanno

                    Feyspalm.zhpg ... I equipped the CWC, and more than once, but somehow I did not notice the milestone costs.
                    Quote: your1970
                    Private security companies at one time hung up with KHO - when they began to measure reinforcing bars on a thin part of the bar (there were subspecies of rolled metal in the USSR) and it turned out that 0,5 mm was not enough for the required thickness.

                    And there’s nothing to collect from shit. Savings on trifles leads to an increase in costs by an order of magnitude. So do yourself "evil Pinocchio."
                    1. your1970
                      24 October 2017 17: 38
                      +1
                      1) you equipped the CWC for what? Army? Ministry of Internal Affairs? CWC from the fermented metal that was blown down by national economic methods of all stripes and degrees of rust, welded by a conscript from conscripted from other works electrodes with an alarm ("DEC! Why, they soldered yourself!") To the duty officer? I also equipped these ... ..
                      The conversation was about shooting galleries - satisfying all the requirements of the normative, otherwise the owner will fly into the pipe on fines and bribes
                      2) about "demand will increase, cartridges will become cheaper" - there are no words at all ... With increasing demand, ANY product only goes up in price.He can become cheaper - only if the supply grows. But I have not heard something about the new cartridge plants and the new production of gunpowder ...
                      3) The bar was in the concrete panels of the walls of the CWC - and not the internal grille and t / n. What was the charm !! LRO measured the fittings in the WALL - which could not be redone and cut from this coupon. Then a year later after 2007 it calmed down (and maybe not) - the acquaintance who was engaged in their weapons died (the old one was) ...
                      1. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 19: 20
                        0
                        Quote: your1970
                        We equipped the CWC for what? Army? Ministry of Internal Affairs? CWC from fermented with national economic methods ferment of all stripes and degree of rust

                        For customers. And you can leave your speculations to yourself, they are of no interest to anyone.
                        Quote: your1970
                        The conversation was about shooting galleries - satisfying all the requirements of the normative, otherwise the owner will fly into the pipe on fines and bribes

                        Have you ever read this "normative"? Although ... after the opus about the compulsory armor, it is clear that they just heard a ringing somewhere, and obviously with the prefix "mudo."
                        Quote: your1970
                        about "demand will increase, cartridges will become cheaper" - there is no word at all ... With increasing demand, ANY product only goes up. It can become cheaper only if supply grows. But I have not heard something about new cartridge factories and new gunpowder production ...

                        You also have a problem with the economy. If there is no wide demand, then the product will be rare and piece-wise, three and a half firms will trade it, laying all its costs in it, but if the product is in high demand then there will be a lot of firms to produce it and trade it, there will be competition between them , and the cost per unit of goods will decrease.
                        Quote: your1970
                        The bar was in the concrete panels of the walls of the CWC - and not the internal grille and t / n. What was the charm !! LRO measured the fittings in the WALL - which could not be redone and sheared off this coupon. Then a year later after 2007 it calmed down (and maybe no) - the acquaintance who was engaged in their weapons died (he was old) ...

                        Pffff ... guys learn the laws and regulations - you were bred like rabbits. laughing
  39. Antoxa iglinsky
    Antoxa iglinsky 21 October 2017 10: 29
    +5
    Say, the opponents clearly argue their position. But these arguments have long been refuted as delusional, repeated over and over again in different variations. And the leitmotif is one - "everyone else shoots each other." And in general, who has the right to decide what a person owns and what does not. Until a citizen has violated the law, he is not guilty. And the questions - why do you need it, why do you need it - are strange and incorrect. What do you care? Who you are?
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 13: 20
      10
      Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
      Until a citizen breaks the law, he is not guilty

      And if he does break it? And the sacrifice will be your (God forbid) wife, an example? Still be proponents of legalization?
      An example from my life: I have a neighbor, small, chubby ... for a fifty dollars already, my peer, in general. The quietest guy.
      Somehow, returning from work, in the subway, he quarreled with some eccentric. Didn't find anything better than
      - get a warehouse from the bag
      - open it
      - and poke the eccentric in the belly.
      I served time (a little, I drove a good lawyer to him ... I was (then) I had a familiar lawyer on occasion), was released on parole, now works again, where I worked.
      The knife no longer carries, I was specifically interested in him.
      This is to ensure that anyone can override. And with the barrel in your pocket - once is enough to do things nemeryano.
      What do you say, a guardian for the rights of citizens to self-defense?
      1. Antoxa iglinsky
        Antoxa iglinsky 21 October 2017 18: 38
        +2
        If the eccentric with whom he quarreled had a trunk with him, your friend could not poke him in the belly. And in general, he would behave more restrained. No wonder they say - well done among the sheep.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 20: 34
          +8
          Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
          If the eccentric with whom he quarreled had a trunk with him, your friend could not poke him in the belly

          Not at all a fact, but I talked about it.
          I talked about the fact that the presence of weapons on hand greatly increases the risks to others, regardless of whether they have weapons or not.
          And only about that.
          It's like all motorists suddenly transplanted onto planes, approximately. Heap will be small ...
          So with a short barrel in hand.
          And, yes - you did not answer the main question:
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          And if he does break it? And the sacrifice will be your (God forbid) wife, an example? Still be proponents of legalization?

          Or hope to pass? As in that joke - “but what about us?”?
          There are no guarantees that it will pass. And I gave you an example of what and how it happens. So the "ball on your thoron", my dear ...
          1. Antoxa iglinsky
            Antoxa iglinsky 21 October 2017 21: 47
            +3
            The likelihood that my wife could suffer from a stray bullet is extremely small, compared with the likelihood that she will be met by several tipsy sorcerers on the way from work. And she will have nothing to protect herself, not even a single chance. This is really true. Here is my answer. And don’t need it here - the gun still won’t help her. Will it help or not, it's none of your business. We will figure out what will help us and what will not.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 22: 27
              +8
              Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
              We will figure out what will help us and what will not.

              Ahem ... a pale young man with a burning gaze ...
              I understand you, KVM. You yourself cannot provide a “safe mode” to your wife, so all hope is in the pestle in your pocket.
              This is a false hope.
              Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
              And don’t need it here - the gun still will not help her

              It is here that is necessary. It won’t help, she’ll wear it in her purse, stopudovo. As before, the same fools wore gas cans (they were sold openly at the time, and there were quite “workers” among the sea of ​​bullshit).
              Nevertheless - as a rule - did not help.
              As an example, I managed to keep my wife and daughter (born in 90, by the way) safe and sound. Without any fire there in her pocket.
              You would most likely not succeed. What with a firearm, what without it.
              Go ... forest, field and peat bog. I'm bored with you, I with you I want to sleep from you negative
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 10: 16
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                I understand you, KVM. You yourself cannot provide a “safe mode” to your wife, so all hope is in the pestle in your pocket.

                As I understand it, the term “work” is unfamiliar to you, and you are only committed to providing your wife with “safe mode”? Although ... with such an approach, what kind of wife ... as you move from your mother, so return to the discussion. laughing
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 10: 21
                  +9
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  I understand that the term "work" is unfamiliar to you

                  Wrong understand.
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  as you move from mom, so go back to the discussion

                  Ahem ... my wife’s mother was in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, mine ... is also close.
                  Decided to troll, kid? So it is in vain request
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 13: 11
                    0
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    Decided to troll, kid?

                    No, you, I do not troll children and patients.
              2. igorka357
                igorka357 22 October 2017 12: 10
                +1
                He’s not like his wife, he won’t protect himself without a pestle, you can read above how he called slaves against the short-barreled man, weak and weak in the dark alley on his hands and feet! Even if five people, then run .. one -two-three bukhariks, beat what you have strength! But what to say "we will figure it out ourselves" .. everything is clear and true!
              3. Antoxa iglinsky
                Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 16: 17
                +1
                "Nevertheless - as a rule - did not help.
                As an example, I managed to keep my wife and daughter (born in 90, by the way) safe and sound. Without any fire there in her pocket.
                You would most likely not succeed. What with a firearm, what without it. "
                Wow, how cool we are. It turned out with him. Well, great, maybe next time it will work out. Only for others it is not necessary to decide, ok? People are different. And you can be in an accident, or undergo surgery, and then walk with a cane. Then we’ll see how you are “without it”. In addition, possession of weapons is not necessarily driven by fear, but by a simple desire to own these things. Why not? The same household items as a car, knife, ax, chainsaw. By your prohibitions you punish people for crimes that they did not commit.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 16: 52
                  +9
                  Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
                  Wow how cool we are

                  We are not complaining.
                  Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
                  ... possession of weapons is not necessarily driven by fear, but by a simple desire to own these things. Why not? The same household items as a car, knife, ax, chainsaw ...

                  Knife and stuff have completely peaceful purposes (originally). Yes, everyone you listed here can also be killed, crippled, BUT:
                  The weapon has a single purpose - to kill. And this is not "the same subject"
                  household goods.
                  You have an obsessive motive, KMK: “I’ll get myself a pistol, and then I’ll get cooler than boiled eggs.”
                  You won’t become, you will remain the same as you are now, only with the barrel in your pocket.
                  It will end badly for you - run into the same “cool” one, but with the best preparation. And that’s it, RIP. Do you really need it?
                  And so they would get off with a couple of bruises ... well, a pair of front teeth, nakraynyak (front teeth are generally consumables, GYYY laughing laughing laughing )
                  In general ... negative
                  1. Antoxa iglinsky
                    Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 18: 20
                    +3
                    Again you with your care. Well, what’s the matter to you, dear, rip, not rip. Well, you flush with your imaginary steepness for the time being. Why do you incur, excuse me, the audacity to decide what a person should own. We can have an oil company. If anything. And if a weapon is created to kill, then spoons are created to make people fat. For that matter, I now believe that you can’t have a car. Well, I don’t want you to have it. Because you are overconfident, you can make an accident. The child will run across the road, and here you are. And that’s it, RIP. Sit down. Why do you need this? Walking on foot is good for health, you like to exercise. Here it is. Well, how valuable is my opinion to you? Obviously, like yours for me, no more.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 18: 28
                      +9
                      Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
                      Again you with your care

                      No care you! It was an attempt to reach your brain. The attempt is recognized as a failure, I wash my hands ...
                      Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
                      And if weapons are made to kill, then spoons are made to make people fat

                      But with your brains, you are surely having problems: whether you are fat or not is your own business. Whether you kill a thread or not, that’s already not only your business. Anderstend :! fool
                      All. Good luck. hi
                      1. Antoxa iglinsky
                        Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 19: 06
                        +3
                        This is not only my personal business, but the police’s business. In the case, again, if I supposedly kill someone. But certainly not yours, so all the rules. As for the state of the brain, hoplophobia, as an inexplicable fear of weapons, can also be qualified as a mental disorder. But again, unlike you, I do not presume to say who has order with their brains and who does not.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 13: 16
            +1
            And you didn’t notice, in one post you insult ALL supporters of the permission of civil circulation, in every way provoke them to be rude towards you. Do you always act like that? If so, then it is not surprising that you get fed up with the mere thought that people will have CSR.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 13: 50
              +9
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              ... it is not surprising that you (censorship) from the mere thought that ...

              Mat prohibited by site rules wink
              And what about
              Quote: Rakti-Kali
              ALL supporters of permission of civil circulation

              well, as an example, I also consider them ... not too smart people. And I'm not alone. And, the most ridiculous, as a rule, people who actually dealt with weapons are against the "free circulation of the COP".
              Why is this interesting? recourse
              1. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 21: 17
                +2
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                And, the most ridiculous, as a rule, people who actually dealt with weapons are against the "free circulation of the COP".
                Why is this interesting?

                Because these people had the maximum as they owned - they wore a time sheet from the CWC to the safe or pulled the hated "piece of iron" while remaining on a ghosted gain. Yes, for such a trunk this is a continuous problem. Who used the weapon not only as an opener for beer bottles often have a different opinion.
                1. sergeevanton
                  sergeevanton 25 October 2017 15: 18
                  +1
                  Who used the weapon not only as an opener for beer bottles often have a different opinion. Is that of course you? Well, how else!
          2. Antoxa iglinsky
            Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 16: 21
            +1
            Yes, I can’t, but what? Do you blame me? Yes, I’ll feel much more confident. More questions?
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 16: 38
              +9
              Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
              Yes, I’ll feel much more confident

              You are contraindicated in feeling ... more confident.
              Just shoot someone thread and sit down. Will the wife be very pleased?
              Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
              Yes, I can’t, but what?

              You cannot protect yourself without a firearm (against the unarmed enemy) - either learn to defend yourself, or learn to run, also a means.
              COP is here what side ?!
              1. Antoxa iglinsky
                Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 16: 45
                +3
                If I shoot, not in the case, then I’ll sit down. Why do you care? Touching, but I do not need your care. I’m not going to learn to “defend myself” with my fists, because there are more interesting things to do. And I don’t want to run away. Because in my country I have the right to go wherever I want and at any time.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 22 October 2017 17: 27
                  +9
                  Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
                  If I shoot, not in the case, then I’ll sit down. Why do you care?

                  The fact is that there is a non-zero probability that you shoot one of my friends ... or friends of my friends ... well, you probably understand.
                  So here: I categorically do not need it.
                  You, by the way, too laughing
                  ... in my country I have the right to go wherever I want and at any time ...

                  It’s not enough to have a right. One must still be capable of this right ... to exercise.
                  You, the campaign, are incapable. My condolences request
                  1. Antoxa iglinsky
                    Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 18: 23
                    0
                    If something, since you consider me such a dangerous subject for your acquaintances, or some acquaintances of your acquaintances, then nothing will stop them from seeing such a cowboy scorching anywhere, to slap in the return. So the deterrent is always the place to be. But now there is none. Therefore, each gopher is an agronomist, especially vypishim.
                    1. your1970
                      22 October 2017 18: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: Antoxa Iglinsky
                      If something, since you consider me such a dangerous subject for your acquaintances, or some acquaintances of your acquaintances, then nothing will stop them from seeing such a cowboy scorching anywhere, to slap in the return. So the deterrent is always the place to be. But now there is none. Therefore, each gopher is an agronomist, especially vypishim.
                      - here, one of the supporters of the Constitutional Court cited an example of an attack on a local police officer (obviously there were people with weapons !!!) with one sharpening and nifig, the presence of PM and shoulder straps on the victim did not stop ...
                      There is no deterrent in the victim’s possession of a pistol for those wishing to attack anyone - ELSE in the same America AT ALL attacks would not be - all 100% of the population are armed(and many more than one barrel). Anyone can give a fight (in theory !!) - but no, this does not stop the Amer’s gopniks ...
                      1. Antoxa iglinsky
                        Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 19: 13
                        +2
                        Stops if the spirit is enough to apply it. Here's an example: Recently, they wrote about the new entertainment of black teenagers in the USA, “Knockout” or “cut down white”. In short, the essence of the game is to knock out a random “white” passerby with one hit.
                        I remember then, Evgeny Slobodchikov said that even a pistol would not help in such a situation.
                        And here is a very revealing news.
                        Free translation: “A teenager playing Knockout in Lansing, Michigan, chose the wrong victim - the owner of the weapon, who carried a pistol covertly. The teenager received 2 bullets from the victim, survived and is now in prison.
                        As previously reported, the game “knockout” for some reason :-) began to flourish where the most severe restrictions on weapons in the United States reign - in New York and New Jersey.
                        In Lansing, a black teenager, Marvel Weaver, approached a “white” man who was waiting for his daughter at a bus stop and tried to knock him out. But something went wrong - the man took out his .40 caliber pistol and shot the teenager 2 times.
                        Weaver admitted that he had previously knocked out 6 or 7 people before running into an armed victim. According to him, the return shot served him as a good lesson.
                        Weaver will be in prison for 1 year. "
                        Conclusions:
                        - where there are no weapons, "cruel games" appear;
                        - civilian weapons help to defend themselves;
                        - civilian weapons helped break the chain of impunity crimes;
                        - self-defense with a pistol is the most effective way to stop the attacker, and at the same time there is a high probability of leaving him alive;
                        - a good lesson this will serve not only for Marvel, but also for other wiseacres;
                        “Civilian weapons are good.” Montgomery, 60 years old the day before the events, walked home after buying lottery tickets, and a group of seven teenagers approached her on the way home. Montgomery at first thought that they wanted to steal her handbag, but instead one of the teenagers hit her, the second tried to do the same. Then she grabbed a weapon.
                        “All I felt was pain. And I told myself that I lived to be 60 years old and I want to live to at least 61,” recalls the victim. "Then I started to pray and asked the Lord to direct my hands." After Montgomery put her hand in her purse, and then shot in the direction of the teenagers, after which they started to run. However, she got into two.
                        Boyle, who is a member of her local district patrol, says she always carries weapons since she was robbed. “It's a shame that you can’t walk around your area where you would seem to feel safe without being attacked or brutally abused,” she continues. "I bought a gun in the hope of never using it, but I'm glad I'm still alive and among the people."
                        The latter, however, cannot be said about her two victims: Montgomery shot 5 times, hitting one of the teenagers in the chest and the other in the stomach. Due to the age of the deceased, the police have not yet announced their names, but said that the teenagers died as a result of gunshot wounds. Police are still looking for other teens from the group. Witnesses say teenagers fled after firing shots.
                        Police have not yet indicted Montgomery, who had no previous arrests - she was only detained and then released.
                        This is the last story in a number of other similar cases occurring in the USA when teenagers play the so-called knockout game. During this “game” they approach passers-by and try to knock them out with one hit.
                  2. Antoxa iglinsky
                    Antoxa iglinsky 22 October 2017 18: 24
                    +1
                    "It is not enough to have a right. It is still necessary to be capable of this right ... to exercise."
                    You, the campaign, are incapable. My condolences"
                    In fact, such a right by default gives the law. And yes, everyone should be able to implement it. I stand for this.
              2. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 22 October 2017 21: 25
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                either learn to protect yourself, or learn to run, also a means.

                Kamerad, as I wrote earlier, I repeat, I had to deal with unmated aggression against me or my relatives more than a year ago, a little more than a year ago I grabbed 4 gopobidloids with armed knives and well seasoned with alcohol, the result of the battle was one wounded on their part, the rest fled. But after a few months I damaged my spine and there is a non-zero probability that in the future I can only move with a crutch or a cane.
                Now, attention is the question, what am I better to learn, to learn kung fu karate or to do running on the run?
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 23 October 2017 14: 22
                  10
                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  ... a little over a year ago I grappled with 4 gopobydloids ... a few months later I injured my spine...

                  Quote: Rakti-Kali
                  Now, attention is the question, what am I better to learn, to learn kung fu karate or to do running on the run?

                  If I were you, I would think about why, about once every six months, you find quite serious adventures "in your second 90". And I would learn from these adventures ... not to find. According to the principle "The best battle is a battle that did not take place."
                  If, of course, your adventures are not related to work ... then a slightly different alignment.
                  1. Rakti-kali
                    Rakti-kali 23 October 2017 16: 20
                    0
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    If I were you, I would think about why, about once every six months, you find quite serious adventures "in your second 90"

                    What for? I know the answer.
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    "The best fight is the battle that did not take place."

                    And the best way to avoid a fight is to make the enemy afraid to enter the battle.
                    1. your1970
                      23 October 2017 16: 47
                      +2
                      Here, a supporter of the COP gave an example of an attack on Armed a district policeman in the form of an attack is only with sharpening. Did this stop the attacker ?? NO !!!
                    2. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 23 October 2017 16: 50
                      +9
                      Quote: Rakti-Kali
                      And the best way to avoid a fight is to make the enemy afraid to enter the battle

                      Yeah ... and that’s why you need a trunk in your pocket ...
                      Not this way.
                      An adversary may be stronger, or more experienced, or more numerous, or better equipped, or any combination of the above.
                      That is, you will not succeed in intimidating him.
                      In case of permission of the civilian COP, you, IMHO, will quickly end, since the COP will not only be with you, but people better than you who own it, you will meet ... with inevitability, and, with your mood, very soon.
                      All IMHO, I repeat, this is not my sadness, this is your sadness (s)
                      1. Rakti-kali
                        Rakti-kali 24 October 2017 00: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Yeah ... and that’s why you need a trunk in your pocket ...

                        Yes, it’s precisely for this that a person is a creature who values ​​his life and prefers not to risk it.
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        An adversary may be stronger, or more experienced, or more numerous, or better equipped, or any combination of the above.

                        That is why a respectable and law-abiding citizen should have an equalizer of chances.
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        That is, you will not succeed in intimidating him.

                        How often do you play Russian roulette? Have you ever played? And why? Oh, just don’t say that because the revolver wasn’t at hand, I won’t believe it. But the fact that you risk your life like this is pure idiocy, and you, not being an idiot, do not intend to risk your precious life like that.
                        So it’s not me who will “intimidate” the attacker, but his realization that having attacked a passerby on the street (even if he is weaker than the attacker physically or the attackers are numerically superior), he, the attacker, can die completely and irrevocably, not lose his teeth, not to get a nose fracture or soft tissue bruises and not even break your jaw, but just cease to exist.
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        In case of permission of the civilian COP, you, IMHO, will quickly end, since the COP will not only be with you, but people better than you who own it, you will meet ... with inevitability, and, with your mood, very soon.

                        Dreaming is not harmful ... It is harmful not to dream ...
                        But I’m sure that these dreams of yours will not come true, because whoever wants to have weapons legally wants to have them in order to avoid conflicts, but those who want to create conflicts have had them illegally for a long time.
                        And, yes, I am deeply convinced that the most rabid and implacable opponents of CSR are just those who have these weapons illegally.
                2. sergeevanton
                  sergeevanton 25 October 2017 15: 23
                  0
                  Interesting story. Direct plot to the film. Now attention is the answer. Therapeutic exercise. Only she is able to put you on your feet. The gun has nothing to do with it.
  40. Dmitry Fedorov
    Dmitry Fedorov 21 October 2017 10: 46
    +1
    The army is not so much taught to shoot as how it is not accidentally fired. It is accidental unforeseen victims that will prevail if the short-barrel is allowed. The United States will not be able to get rid of it already, there is weak power and a strong arms lobby.
    But we have no right to step on this rake.
  41. Dmitry Fedorov
    Dmitry Fedorov 21 October 2017 10: 48
    0
    Quote: asr55
    Why didn’t you shoot each other in the service?


    There have been such cases. Recruits are told every time.
  42. Sedoy
    Sedoy 21 October 2017 11: 02
    +6
    again the same crap ... :)
    these "specialists" have already pulled up ...

  43. Yak28
    Yak28 21 October 2017 11: 37
    +2
    For the most part, because of the disorder, we have embittered and impulsive people, watch criminal news, conflicts on the roads, in transport, in stores occur from scratch and lead to murders. And hundreds of thousands of illiterate Caucasians, Uzbeks who flooded Russian cities, their faces flashing daily in the criminal news. Do you want all this mass of people to go with weapons? You will not be saved by a gun or a knife of a sudden blow with anything in the face or head of a person passing by. It was possible in Soviet times to sell weapons when people were adequate and responsible , but not today.
  44. ver_
    ver_ 21 October 2017 12: 05
    +2
    Quote: Black5Raven
    Quote: _anatoly
    Is not a simple thought obvious?
    The more weapons, the more corpses! I just don’t understand what else can I discuss here?

    How I worry about the poor Swiss, will die out! crying Wait, why do they have one killed per 100.000 population, but in a short-barreled Russian Federation from 7 and above?

    ..in Switzerland, all the storekeepers have weapons at home and in case of alarm they leave the house in military uniform and with weapons — they * pick up * the vehicle and deliver it to the gathering place ... There was no case of using this weapon in any showdown or crime. It just has to be in order ... After the collapse of the USSR - in Moldova, a short barrel was allowed and the number of crimes decreased ... - who wants to get a bullet between his eyes? (Chi Schaub was not tormented) ..
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. Bobrovsky
    Bobrovsky 21 October 2017 14: 36
    +2
    A familiar policeman walked home in the early nineties. He worked in the criminal investigation department and had a PM in his pocket with a cartridge in the barrel. I heard that some people were catching up with him from behind, did not have time to turn around, when I received a blow to the head and fell. Three young men started kicking him, he shouted out - I’m a policeman. Oh, you also cop and blows rained more often. He managed to pull out a gun and shot himself up. One of the attackers fell, and the rest rushed to run. He caught up with one and managed to detain him. It turned out that one of the three, a seventeen-year-old, he was hit by a bullet under his chin and, of course, his brains flew into a hat. A month and a half he was tortured and trampled by the prosecutor, as he dared to have a cartridge in the chamber. And he answered - do you prefer them to kill me? And what will happen to an ordinary citizen in the same case? The gun is then an advantage when you have a license to shoot five villains, and if it is not, then it is better not to have it.
    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 21 October 2017 19: 09
      +4
      In the early nineties, our then chief considered that there was no need for a gun for a local policeman in the village, although communication with this policeman was only in the daytime, and the road, in a good situation, took more than 2 hours. When a scandal was called, two were attacked by the policeman, one with a knife and the other with drin. He managed to break free, they chased him. He ran to a neighbor, took a double-barreled shotgun from that one and left. They waited and continued the attack. The result is two corpses. And with a service pistol, they could still live and raise their children. The prosecutor's office refused to initiate a criminal case, there were no complaints from relatives, but the guy after that still quit, the nerves could not stand it. By the way, the chief was not punished, but he immediately armed all the district police officers. And we have never been punished for the cartridge in the chamber, for some it saved our lives ...
  47. Nemesis
    Nemesis 21 October 2017 17: 56
    +6
    SERGUS,
    I do not see any problems, personally for myself, that may arise if a civilian short-barrel is allowed in the Russian Federation. They are seen only by people like you, and the essence of your vision has been explained to you more than once, and not only by me. You are either not sure of your psychological stability and judge others by yourself, or you think that no one is supposed to put a weapon besides you, and this opinion is shared by bandits and officials who today are not far removed from each other ........ I’m telling you for the hundredth time - Put in order in the country and there will be less people wanting to buy weapons in the Russian Federation ... I didn’t write to you, you thought for me that with a decrease in crime in the Russian Federation you don’t need weapons ... Each person has his own life and his own work, and he, and not you, must decide whether he needs a weapon, or not, if there is no legal reason to refuse this person to purchase weapons .... If you sit at home, live in an elite village with security, or just in a decent district, don’t go on highways, don’t go at a later time, maybe you don’t need a weapon, but it’s up to you. You don’t have to decide for others. In addition, there are sports clubs and just gun lovers for whom this weapon is personal safety and sports, not an instrument of crime. As for Australia and New York, information about the increase in serious crimes after the ban on civilian weapons is publicly available, you have the Internet ... I did not say that you can’t live there, I said that the number of serious crimes there has increased significantly, after civil arms ban
  48. Surskoy
    Surskoy 21 October 2017 17: 57
    +2
    Quote: Bobrovsky
    A familiar policeman walked home in the early nineties. He worked in the criminal investigation department and had a PM in his pocket with a cartridge in the barrel. I heard that some people were catching up with him from behind, did not have time to turn around, when I received a blow to the head and fell. Three young men started kicking him, he shouted out - I’m a policeman. Oh, you also cop and blows rained more often. He managed to pull out a gun and shot himself up. One of the attackers fell, and the rest rushed to run. He caught up with one and managed to detain him. It turned out that one of the three, a seventeen-year-old, he was hit by a bullet under his chin and, of course, his brains flew into a hat. A month and a half he was tortured and trampled by the prosecutor, as he dared to have a cartridge in the chamber. And he answered - do you prefer them to kill me? And what will happen to an ordinary citizen in the same case? The gun is then an advantage when you have a license to shoot five villains, and if it is not, then it is better not to have it.

    Yes, I, too, as a young man, served a bit in mentovka. So we were constantly hammered, that even just to unfasten the holster, we will follow organizational conclusions. And they answered our fair indignation that they say if something, then yes, bring down all indiscriminately, then they will beat you up in court.
    Yeah ... There was a case when one defendant decided to get out of the courtroom. A cop from the Security Service was sitting in the hallway. He sees the scene: the devil runs, followed by a herd of pursuers, the judge yells at the cop, like, stop him. Well, he delayed. Tabel weapons.
    They condemned the lad. After that, many of us quit
  49. trak
    trak 21 October 2017 18: 54
    +4
    Wonderful are your works! I recently posted a comment here: “I’m a long-time reader of the Military Review and a supporter of civilian short-haul. I’m constantly following this topic, choosing the most successful publications of various authors from different media and offering to post on IN. Until recently, they were published without problems. But June this year, as I cut off, all the publications I have proposed by various authors in support of the short-barrel are not being posted. I hear the same from other people. It seems that our most ridiculous opponents' dream came true; whether oxygen is available. We will not be able to publish full-fledged articles here, only reader’s comments. Well, it will not do us any harm, only devalue the opinions of our opponents. After all, if they know that they will not be objected to all their "boils", opportunity and temptation to simply lie in support of their point of view. " Yesterday I posted this comment, and today it was removed. What is already impossible to comment?
  50. Taoist
    Taoist 21 October 2017 21: 36
    +2
    By the way, even this topic is quite a clear illustration of what could happen if we suddenly have a couple of millions of legitimate guns on hand. Even in the discussion in absentia, we are not shy in expressions or in epithets ... Are everyone so sure of nerve strength? Whatever the reality of threats and others ... someone just freaked out?
    Weapons culture is not being developed at the same time ... how many corpses and people who have "sat down in the park" will eventually be? No guys, that's what you want to do, but I personally am not ready to take such a risk. Despite the fact that I am personnel, I know weapons, I know how and love .... But I’d better interrupt ... than later. We are all inadequate now ... and the world is heading for the ass ... Do not speed up this process.
    1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 22 October 2017 12: 59
      +2
      Note that in expressions, opponents of the short barrel are not shy. Apparently they judge others by themselves.