Military Review

Maybe enough to wage a civil war between white and red?

242
In a strange world we live. For some reason, events that took place even a century ago continue to excite the hearts of Russians all over the world. It is in the world, and not only in Russia and the former Soviet republics. The revolution that took place in February 1917, and then the October revolution tore the country up and down. The gap occurred not only by class, social status, political views, but also by family. I will not be afraid to use the expression that has been erased from frequent use: brother went to his brother, father to son, son to father ...




Attentive readers interested in history Russia probably noticed that in recent years the issue of the civil war of the beginning of the last century has been raised more and more often. More and more often, historians, philosophers, politicians, journalists raise the question of who was right in that war. Opinions are diametrically opposed, with arguments in the form of some memories, documents, and other historical "heritage". The memories of emigrants, children and grandchildren of those who fought in the White Army and emigrated abroad are especially touching. However, the memories of the Reds' descendants of leaders and heroes of the revolution are read in the same way.

I was interested in the fact that the topic was unwound in the Russian and foreign press. Spins up sometimes silly. One-sided. And it creates the impression of utter confusion. And then disbelief even in what was really.

Some time ago, due to certain circumstances, I talked a little with the descendants of the nobility. A thing of the past, because some of the details of this communication, I can reveal. 11 June 2013 was celebrated in the world with a memorable date - the 400 anniversary of the house of the Romanovs. The descendants of the nobles who live in Russia offered to complete the monument, which they began to build for the 300 anniversary in one of the cities, but at that time only a pedestal was built. War prevented.

With the coming of the Bolsheviks to power, the pedestal was used for another monument. Naturally, for the leader of the world proletariat. After almost a hundred years, the documentation on that monument fell into the hands of one prominent restorer, and it was he who decided to start a company to restore historical justice. Thus, I came to the office of the Romanovs' house in Moscow. It was there that I communicated and met with those whose ancestors fought in civil war on opposite sides of the barricades. But this does not prevent them from doing without insults and mutual claims today. There was such a time. Yes, and the Director of the Office A.N. The sunset turned out to be a very literate historian.

The source of the aggravation of the discussion about the civil war in Russia, it seems to me, was the work of the descendants of Russian émigrés abroad. More precisely split descendants. In modern Russian society, there is a perception that the descendants of emigrants mostly rush to Russia, perceive our country as the one that their ancestors once lost. Alas, but in fact everything is not so simple.

If you think about it, it was not the Bolsheviks who destroyed the Russian empire, but those who later became known as white. Yes Yes. It was in February that "they threw off the bloody Nicholas." And it was "thrown off" by those who were supposed to be the support of the autocracy. I will not now analyze all the actions of the civil and military leadership of the Russian Empire. This is a thankless job. How many people, so many opinions. Therefore, I will voice my opinion on this issue. The environment of Nicholas created a situation in which the emperor had no choice but to sign a renunciation.

Today, most people believe that in the civil war the main opponents were the Reds, who were in favor of Soviet power, and the Whites, who were trying to restore autocracy. Complete nonsense! Try to recall at least one leader of the white movement, who would have advocated autocracy. No, at the grassroots level, they probably were. But the rest? In fact, the very concept of “white” or “white guards” was introduced by Leon Trotsky. And they themselves called themselves volunteers. There were Kornilov, Drozdov, Markov ...

What was the main slogan in the Russian imperial army? "For the faith, the king and the Fatherland"! And what is the slogan of the white movement you can remember? "For a united and indivisible Russia"? A beautiful slogan, but completely false. Especially if you look at those who were close to white. All these Americans, British, French, Japanese, Czechs, Slovaks ...

Moreover, again, if you think about it, the white movement did not even have an ideology! Someone in the forest, some for firewood. One commander is fighting for a parliamentary monarchy of the English type. Another for a parliamentary republic. Third for his own coronation. The fourth for the Constituent Assembly ... The only thing that linked the white movement ideologically, hatred of the Bolsheviks.

This very situation gave rise to another problem of civil war. Separatism. It was in the white rear that national and other "republics" were born. It was there that pans-atamans appeared ... In fact, the whites went to the destruction of the unity of Russia. Because of the pathological hatred of red.

In Russia today, a lot of fans of the "White Guard". Find them easy enough. All Soviet "in the dustbin of history"! In the USSR, there was no, and there could be no culture. Culture is a lot of free people! All the achievements of the Soviet Union were achieved despite the actions of the authorities. Do not shun modern whites and glorifications of "real heroes" such as Vlasov, Shkuro, Krasnov and similar types. Nothing like?

Now back to the present. The ideas that ancestors "brought" remained in the heads and their descendants today. And above all, in the faith and attitude to power in Russia. These same descendants today are ready to gnaw at each other's arguments about Putin, about Russia, about the true faith. This is especially noticeable in France. It was there that settled most of the descendants of immigrants. Although, from time to time lawsuits against Russia are brought from Korea to Argentina.

Let's start with faith. Emigrants are heterogeneous. Some profess Christianity of the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, part of the Constantinople Patriarchate. This is a fundamental difference. And it is expressed not only by faith, but also by possession of religious buildings, cemeteries, memorials. I will not talk about the material value of these objects. There is also a moral side. All previous years immigrants took care of temples and cemeteries. Their fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers were buried there.

Russia today is taking giant steps to develop ties with foreign compatriots. This is paying off. Churches are transferred to the ownership of Russia. Transmitted cemeteries. Huge money is spent on recovery. Russia is developing cultural ties with foreigners of Russian origin. Russian citizenship is granted. Even state awards are given to emigrants for their services to Russia.

It is the category of foreigners who are actively developing these areas of cooperation today, who are in favor of recognizing the "equality of wrong" of the red and white. They advocate reconciliation of descendants. Their opponents are doing just the opposite. They continue to wage an active struggle already with the “Putin power”. Probably, many people read in the French press many articles about the monument to Stalin, which was recently opened with Moscow. Echoes of this "war" we feel in Russia.

In general, to be honest, I personally do not understand the modern Russian “whites”. don't understand their hate. The hatred of those real ones is understandable. They lost not only their property and position in society. They lost everything. And modern? All these our homegrown earls, princes, barons, viscounts ... Well, you have bought, gentlemen, "nobles" to yourself the title of some "emperor" and what? And if white won then? Would you clean your boots and plow the ground ...

One of the supporters of whites, I read an interesting phrase: "we are in favor of historical Russia." In both! Where is the historical place? In the Constituent Assembly? In a parliamentary republic? Maybe parliamentary monarchy fit? There is no historical connection! Not!

And there is an attempt by the “new nobles” on the basis of the white movement to create “historical Russia” as a state of “masters of life” and “mean people”. There is an attempt to "punish" a "vile people" by the descendants of emigrants of that time ...

Perhaps, nevertheless, it is better to remember the common Soviet past, and not the civil war? Maybe it is better to remember Marshal Georgy Zhukov, not forgetting about the St. George Georgy Zhukov cavalier? White and red reconciled the Great Patriotic. And us?
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  1. svp67
    svp67 20 October 2017 15: 22 New
    16
    The White and Reds were reconciled by the Great Patriotic War. What about us?
    I do not agree. The Great Patriotic War was a continuation of the Civil War and not war should try on us, but LOVE FOR THE FATHERLAND. This is what should become the main factor of the trial. You can argue to hoarseness, but you need to do everything for the Fatherland to flourish and build it for your life, and not use it as a springboard, to jump abroad ... And now, unfortunately, the latter has united some of the descendants and the "red" and " whites "
    1. domokl
      20 October 2017 15: 49 New
      15
      The words are correct. Only there is one very important point. Fatherland is understood in different ways. Fatherland of Russians. Fatherland of emigrant nobles. The homeland of common immigrants ... You talk with different people and you feel the difference inside ... In words, everything is For, but in fact, It is For different to the opposite ...
      1. tasha
        tasha 20 October 2017 15: 58 New
        10
        It seems to me that the discussion should be conducted not about how good it was in the past, but about how we want to see our country in the future. Of course, not forgetting the events of bygone days and not so long ago.
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 20 October 2017 16: 49 New
          19
          Everyone has his own love for the Fatherland, and it bears whether we like it or not — just a class character.
          Compradors, as such, do not need for myself Fatherland for the poor! They need slaves and draft power. They see themselves precisely gentlemen!
          Erich Fromm wrote that it was "Greed, as a result of education, creates fascism." Wasn't the civil war a manifestation of fascism? And wasn’t the participation of Russians in the German Armed Forces during the Second World War a manifestation of revenge for this diverse "white" fascism?
          There will be no reconciliation of the “white” and “red” in Russia! It is not at the irrational level (food, housing, reproduction of offspring, etc.).
          Moreover, after the collapse of the USSR, in the international sense, everything became even more complicated!
          And the article is good - necessary, relevant, it has something to think about!
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 20 October 2017 23: 48 New
            +5
            Quote: Tatiana
            Everyone has his own love for the Fatherland, and it bears whether we like it or not — just a class character.

            ... and the Woman wrote it ... sadly ... we listen to Children from Tula, who, thank God, are not aware of "class enmity" and "hatred of the enemies of the revolution" ... an ideology based on enmity and hatred is Fascism! ...
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 06 New
              +5
              Quote: Inok10
              ideology built on hostility and hatred is Fascism! ...

              Through a false ideology that tries to reconcile those who do not have enough money sometimes to collect a child for school and for medicines with those who do not know where to put them, buy a castle in France or bathe obscene women in champagne in Courchevels, this is fascism. And people like you, Lenin quite clearly called what you are.
              1. Inok10
                Inok10 21 October 2017 21: 14 New
                +4
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                And people like you, Lenin quite clearly called what you are.

                ... Hey, Flaming Leninist ... go tell this canoe who did not live in the USSR ... all the more so, I have a Union from Vladivostok to Kaliningrad ... from the cradle ... and how in Dauria ... do you know where it is? ... Zabaykalsky district, Chita region ... in 1982, the whole class raised money for clothes and textbooks ... and I had such in the 4th grade five, two girls and three boys of us twenty with a tail ... and the First Secretary of the Trans-Baikal District Committee of the CPSU didn’t think about these while sitting in his black Volga ... but, you want to tell about the Baltic region that was swimming in the Union’s attention ... well, Purvciems is and even Ziepniekkalns in Riga - Picture ... well, here in the city center ... there is such ... Miera street, but Tallinnas in the same place ... so there until the last days people live in wooden houses with push on the street or porch and stove heating, they did not have Soviet power, as they were in the 19th century and 21 arrived ... The Union was different and not very beautiful, including ... one Kungur was worth what in Soviet times ... mud to the ears ... Air Defense Retraining Center SV ... and as in the 25th hospital in Kiev, nurses walked around the clock, every other day, to feed and raise children ... always ... who works he eats .
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 22 October 2017 14: 52 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Inok10
                  ... Listen Flaming Leninist ... go tell this canoe who did not live in the USSR ...

                  I, too, was born and raised in the USSR and also remember something. And so you like (hereinafter Lenin) I can’t hang noodles on my ears. He remembered the stove heating. Would you like to surprise? And here the hell. Back in 2005, I collected firewood from the relatives in the village at the stove. So I don’t need to whine about stoves and a toilet on the street, I've seen enough of this good in my life. He’s bad Communists, but that’s why we didn’t build communism, because around and around we are the same as you were, and from such material the communist is like a bullet from ... Yes, you probably can’t really build with people like you and capitalism. It was necessary to read carefully what Grandpa Lenin wrote and think about it. Black Volga, yep, recalled the upbringing of the saints of the 90s. And now officials think a lot about the people sitting in their Mercedes? They don’t sleep at night, they give the last shirt so that the people live well. Yeah, how do you hold your pocket wider.
                  Quote: Inok10
                  who works he eats ...

                  So go and work. Everything is better than nonsense to write here.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 23 October 2017 12: 33 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Inok10
                      ... so the peasant can be seen right away ... or rather "collective farm" (only Fidget will understand) ...

                      And so you have "elita"? So why then there are screams about how bad I am about the people that I speak badly, if the villagers are second grade for you?
                      Quote: Inok10
                      do not confuse the center of Riga in 1970-1994 with your village of relatives

                      I do not confuse. It was you who decided to whine about an unhappy life in the USSR because of stove heating in Riga.
                      Quote: Inok10
                      .. well, we got to the point ... he turns out to be the Flaming Leninist, the hereditary heir to the XX Congress of the CPSU - THE PEOPLE ARE NOT THE SAME SYSTEM! ... which from 1941 to 1945 overwhelmed Fascism!

                      People like you didn’t even stand nearby. The miserable epigon likened himself to the titans. Ahhahahaha.
                      Quote: Inok10
                      and this is not the one he saw The serf went ..

                      Well, what can you do if descendants of lazy, envious and stupid graffiti have grown up with worthy ancestors. Which prosrali in the 90s, all that with such difficulty was done by previous generations. Not all of course, but more than enough.
                      Quote: Inok10
                      ... well, no one is building it except your sick imagination ...

                      And what do we have at the moment? Or is private ownership of the means of production a sign of communism?
                      Quote: Inok10
                      ... to read and think is not about you, dearest, and even more so V.I. Lenin ... you just memorized a surname ...

                      I see you tried it and it didn’t work, and therefore you can’t believe that others could. laughing
                      Quote: Inok10
                      I’ll remind you of the Special Distributors of the CPSU and their sanatoriums ... the first in their memory Sanatorium named after Herzen ... next to the former New Town, now the Centre of the airbase Cuban Patriot Park ...

                      Horrible. Now that’s not so. Now officials work for the average salary in Russia and go to work by public transport. Write escho.
                      1. Inok10
                        Inok10 23 October 2017 23: 45 New
                        +4
                        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                        And so you have "elita"? So why then there are screams about how bad I am about the people that I speak badly, if the villagers are second grade for you?

                        ... identification The fiery Leninist:
                        - place of birth - Kiev region
                        - place of residence - Kiev
                        - Status - Zarobitchin in Russia
                        ... The village, it is the Village ... bully
                2. Pancir026
                  Pancir026 24 October 2017 12: 04 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Inok10
                  in 1982, the whole class raised money for clothes and textbooks ... and there were five of them in my 4th grade, two girls and three of us twenty with a tail ...

                  Already after reading this phrase. All the rest of your ranting can be considered a complete lie. As well as all the statements like you.
                  About faces similar to you, mired in the search for fleas, roughly speaking, perfectly described here- http://detectivebooks.ru/book/29151430/?page=16
                  with a description of the last faith in your lies.
                  P.A. Sorokin in his important work “Causes of War and Peace Conditions” writes:

                  “Civil wars arose from a quick and radical change in higher values ​​in one part of a given society, while the other either did not accept the change or moved in the opposite direction. Virtually all civil wars in the past stemmed from the sharp mismatch between the highest values ​​of revolutionaries and counter-revolutionaries. From the civil wars of Egypt and Persia to recent events in Russia and Spain, history confirms the validity of this provision. ”
                  This was said a century ago, but it is absolutely applicable to those who think because you:
                  A group of Moscow millionaires, speaking in support of the Stolypin reform in 1906, said in an interview with the journal “Economist of Russia”: “We are almost all for the law on November 9 ... We are not at all afraid of differentiation ... Of the 100 half-starved people, there will be 20 good hosts, and 80 laborers. We do not suffer from sentimentality. Our ideals are Anglo-Saxon. First of all, strong people need help. But we are not able to regret the weak but the whiners. ”
                  And as a confirmation, more precisely as an argument for your subsequent cries about civil. About all kinds of different, supposedly innocent- "The landlords, who were not reconciled with the prospect of losing their property, correctly understood the vector, the course of events in the summer of 1917. Some of them radicalized quickly, and the doctrine of vengeance has developed among them. This is an important ideological prerequisite for a civil war. Here is the proclamation of one of the landlord unions, published in May 1917 (published in the newspaper Delo Naroda in August 1917). It begins with the words: "Future proletarians - Russian landowners - unite! ”

                  The proclamation concludes:

                  “A people that has abolished the death penalty as a criminal murder and introduces it into its laws, another crime - robbery and seizure as the basis of its lazy well-being, as having no state meaning - should not and cannot have its own state. Just as the socialists did not recognize the autocracy, even when it was universally recognized, we cannot recognize the criminal predatory republic. Under such conditions, we cannot escape death, and our children - from hunger, because we will never obey the dictates and laws of a criminal state that wants to legitimize a predatory seizure. We will not find a place in our reckless fatherland, as the socialists did not find it. But the socialists resorted to revenge and terror; they had no other means of struggle. Obviously, we and our children will also have to follow this terrible path.

                  This is so inevitable, although bitter and terrible: hundreds of thousands of impoverished landowners will certainly single out a tenth from their midst, that is, tens of thousands of the most miserable and ardent, and these unfortunate ones will go on one dark night with a box of matches and with a kerosene bubble to tens of thousands predatory villages and villages in which the councils of workers, soldiers and peasants' deputies who fled there after the bankruptcy of factories and plants will soon meet in touching unanimity, and will produce all-Russian illumination, sparing neither houses, nor forests, nor crops. It will be easier for dark robbers to share bare land. And only in this terrible, inevitable vengeance will we gain our only consolation. "

                  Union of Poor Landowners. ” [200, p. 250–251].
                  Did you recognize yourself?
                  You can bring ass assumptions like the one above. EVERYTHING as a carbon paper breathes HATE to ordinary people. But you, like you, despite 30 years of unbridled wild slander against the USSR, you still couldn’t sow in the masses to hate the USSR as well as the understanding that sooner or later you and others like you will lose.
                  1. Inok10
                    Inok10 24 October 2017 22: 37 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Pancir026
                    Did you recognize yourself?

                    ... you don’t need to sharyomizhnichat ... CPSU Communists-Heirs of the Twentieth Congress of the CPSU-DESTROYED the USSR! ... EVERYTHING ! ... they are DESERTED IN 1991 ... DESERTERS SHOOTED! ... and stop PR on the Socialist idea that YOU yourself THREATED! .
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. Pancir026
                      Pancir026 26 October 2017 09: 25 New
                      0
                      Quote: Inok10
                      Deserters are shot

                      Are you talking about yourself? And it’s enough to write disrespectful words if you don’t like it in response to your cries. Look at yourself. You surrendered the country to 90.
                      1. Inok10
                        Inok10 28 October 2017 00: 16 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Pancir026
                        Are you about yourself?

                        ... decided to switch to the Personality, when there is nothing to say on the topic? ... predictably ... laughing
                        Quote: Pancir026
                        And enough of the slogans to write dear if you do not like what was said in response to your screams.

                        ... not a dream, not a spirit ... hi
                        Quote: Pancir026
                        Look at yourself. You surrendered the country in 90.

                        ... hear, "The Honor and Conscience of the Soviet People" ... get hold of ... do not confuse Theme and my humble personality ... and so for reference, the desertion of the CPSU and Her betrayal of the Soviet people, just then it was a people who gave Voinsky Duty, then even at the call of the funniest thing I was not even in the USSR then ....:
                        On February 4, 1990, mass rallies were held in Moscow, at least 200 thousand people took to the streets of the capital. This was the most powerful and well-prepared protest action, the main slogan of which was the demand to cancel the 6th article of the Constitution of the USSR.
                        The next day, on February 5, 1990, an expanded plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU was held, at which Mikhail Gorbachev announced the need to introduce the post of president of the USSR with simultaneous the abolition of the 6th article of the Constitution of the USSR on the leading role of the CPSU and establishing a multi-party system.
                        RIA Novosti https://ria.ru/spravka/20100314/213855855.html

                        ... eat healthy bon appetit ... laughing
                      2. Pancir026
                        Pancir026 28 October 2017 14: 14 New
                        0
                        Quote: Inok10
                        Inok10 Today, 00:16 ↑ New

                        ... decided to switch to the Personality, when there is nothing to say on the topic? ... predictably ...

                        You and the personality ?? Where?
                        Quote: Inok10
                        eat healthy bon appetit.

                        Well, here you are. Eating ... cursing ... interesting. You are always as sloppy as in everyday life. So in the assessments of what happened? Or an conscript soldier. In 90 he was so smart with his back mind. that now the bam is slapping everyone with his dubious "knowledge" of what happened?
                        Quote: Inok10
                        On February 4, 1990, mass rallies were held in Moscow, at least 200 thousand people took to the streets of the capital.

                        Who was that? And who do you blame?
                        Quote: Inok10
                        Her betrayal of the Soviet people

                        That is, 200 thousand in Moscow, tens of thousands in Leningrad, tens of thousands in the Kuzbass screaming SHVABODY and Jeans, not the people and not to blame? Oh, how smart you are ...
                        You got divorced ... and now you are blowing into the same dudkivas of those who bred ..- the highest party nomenclature, even then not being either communists or sovteyskie. Lying intelligentsia and crime, that's who you serve now .. you’re smart ....
                        That's who you believed then and now- "AN Yakovlev wrote:

                        “After the XX Congress, in the super-narrow circle of our closest friends and like-minded people, we often discussed the problems of democratization of the country and society. They chose a simple, like a sledgehammer, method of propagating the "ideas" of late Lenin. It was necessary to clearly, clearly and distinctly isolate the phenomenon of Bolshevism, separating it from the Marxism of the last century. Therefore, they tirelessly talked about the “genius” of late Lenin, about the need to return to Lenin's “plan for building socialism” through cooperation, through state capitalism, etc.

                        A group of true, not imaginary reformers, developed (of course, verbally) the following plan: to strike at Stalin, at Stalinism with the authority of Lenin. And then, if successful, Plekhanov and the Social Democracy beat Lenin, liberalism and "moral socialism" and - revolutionism in general "
                        You believed it then. Believe now.
                        G.Kh. Popov in 1990 defined the tasks of perestroika in the economic and political spheres: “The main thing in perestroika in economic terms is the division of state property between the new owners. The problem of this division is the essence of perestroika, its root ... The essence of perestroika in politics is the complete liquidation of the Soviets ... In other words, desovetization. ”

                        He speaks about the national-state system in much the same way as in the “Sakharov Constitution”: “three, four, or even five dozen independent states are formed on the site of the USSR ... And then these republics decide whether a new Union of republics is needed”
                        So there is nothing to vote, like something in the bazaar without access to the toilet ...
          2. Sargas
            Sargas 21 October 2017 00: 07 New
            +1
            Remind me how many Jews served in Wrmarht? And how many Jews served in Wermarcht in officer ranks?

            Threat Pedivikia for general reference.
        2. domokl
          20 October 2017 17: 37 New
          +3
          Quote: tasha
          but about how we want to see our country in the future.

          And what is there to lead? we want to see a rich country where everything will be done for the people. From medicine and education to education and excellent salaries.
          This is anyone and everyone tells us more than a quarter of a century. From communists to terrorists ... Only for Russians, the vaccination in 90 was qualitative. Fucking fool us today ... Our thoughts are briefly connected with the nurse. and we already understood that the wrong decision of the Dumbler is reflected in the nurse oh how painful ...
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 20 October 2017 23: 57 New
            +5
            Quote: domokl
            Our thinker is briefly connected with a nurse. and we already realized that the wrong decision of the thinker is reflected in the caregiver oh how painful ...

            ... Thank you, Sash ... a good article ... except for renunciation ... everything is much more complicated ... the law of succession is violated in renunciation ... it is fictitious ... like the Bolsheviks did not participate in the February revolution .. ... more than 20% of the votes in the Soviets were after him ...
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 18 New
              +2
              Quote: Inok10
              a good article ... besides renunciation ... everything is much more complicated ... the law of succession is violated in renunciation ...

              Another nonsense from the monarchist.
              Quote: Inok10
              as well as the participation of the Bolsheviks in the February coup

              And who was the Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich there for an hour? laughing
          2. tasha
            tasha 21 October 2017 05: 23 New
            0
            Anyone and everyone has been telling us for more than a quarter century.

            Everyone and everyone tells us the same thing, almost like you - "we want to see a rich country where everything will be done for the people. From medicine and education, to education and excellent salaries." wink In the end - words, words, words ...
            And what does it mean for the people? Is medicine for the people? Ok, let's discuss whether it will be paid or free? At whose expense? Great salaries? Everyone? Great. Will there be a motivation system?
          3. Serg65
            Serg65 21 October 2017 07: 47 New
            +3
            hi Welcome Alexander!
            Quote: domokl
            Only for Russians the vaccine in 90 was made high-quality. Fuck us today fool ..

            Oh Sash, I wouldn’t promise too much ....
            History goes in a spiral and I agree with this, over the past 100 years in Russia, some events have been repeated several times! With your permission, I will try to draw an analogy, and if not, then you correct me.
            1905 Revolution - 1 I Chechen Company
            1917-year Death of the Empire - 1991-year Death of the USSR
            1920-29 of the year - 1991-99 of the year - The collapse of the economy
            1929 year - 2000 year - Economic recovery
            1986 year - 2014 year The impact of falling oil prices on the Russian economy
            As you can see, external forces are constantly influencing the internal events taking place in Russia, so my personal opinion ... the incitement of hatred between the red and white, which we are observing now, is a link in the chain that the destructive forces are pulling! And I must say they manage to sow enmity between the Russians wassat
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 21 October 2017 06: 48 New
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        The words are correct. Only there is one very important point. Fatherland is understood in different ways. Fatherland of Russians. Fatherland of emigrant nobles. The homeland of common immigrants ... You talk with different people and you feel the difference inside ... In words, everything is For, but in fact, It is For different to the opposite ...

        I think that for absolutely everyone, both emigrant noblemen and Russians in Russia, the Fatherland means a strong, prosperous, united state. The state where the people of Russia grows and riches, primarily the Russian people, is the backbone of the country.
        But only the will of the people determines how and where the country should move and how to develop, this law is recognized by absolutely everyone: both emigrants (noble noblemen) and citizens of the country.
        By the way, it was this idea that was the basis of the ideology of the white movement for the unconditional will of the people - through the representatives of this people elected to the Constituent Assembly.
        1. oracul
          oracul 21 October 2017 07: 18 New
          +8
          You yourself believe in what you wrote. For most of the rich, Russia was already “prosperous” before World War I. And the will of the majority of the people who want to change their lives, at that moment they were not interested. The Constituent Assembly did not express the will of this majority and did not intend to do so. One must be able to separate the slogans of the current moment from the real true goals of any movement.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 21 October 2017 09: 48 New
            +3
            Quote: oracul
            You yourself believe in what you wrote. The Constituent Assembly did not express the will of this majority

            why faith, when there is knowledge that it is the CSS that expressed the will of the people clearly and unambiguously?
            I read the primary sources about HOW it was being prepared: the elections were the freest in the world at that time — universal, direct, equal, secret.
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: Olgovich
              universal, direct, equal, secret.

              Just like the Yeltsin election. laughing
        2. domokl
          21 October 2017 08: 12 New
          +5
          Quote: Olgovich
          And only the will of the people determines how and where the country should go and

          good And what kind of people? Owners of factories, newspapers, steamboats? Peasants? Workers? Homeless? Alcoholics?
          The people of the concept is so vague that it is difficult to refer to it. In general, I do not really respect the general concepts. Man, people, animal ... Any meeting of representatives of the people will express only the will of a part of people. And not always the main ...
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 21 October 2017 09: 38 New
            +4
            Quote: domokl
            And what kind of people? Owners of factories, newspapers, steamboats? Peasants? Workers? Homeless? Alcoholics?
            The people concept is so vague that it is difficult to access it. I generally do not really respect the general concepts. Man, people, animals ... Any meeting of representatives of the people will express only the will of some people. And not always the main ..

            All citizens with the right to vote, incl. and alcoholics and peasants and owners, etc.

            Why is it vague?
            There are specific elections where specific citizens express their will, giving confidence to certain programs. And the will expressed in this way most people- Must be decisive. And I agree with that. Humanity has not come up with anything better.
            What's wrong?
        3. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Olgovich
          But only the will of the people determines how and where the country should move

          Let me remind everyone this is said by the monarchist. Do you still have doubts about their inadequacy?
        4. Pancir026
          Pancir026 24 October 2017 12: 10 New
          0
          Quote: Olgovich
          By the way, it was this idea that was the basis of the ideology of the white movement for the unconditional will of the people - through the representatives of this people elected to the Constituent Assembly.

          Bullshit. Moreover, complete.
          Your forerunners, in the founder of that time, chatted about everything ... is it worth wondering that, with the help of external forces, all this February foam-talking room was thrown out of the country? Like you, they have been scratching all kinds of rubbish since 90 years. in the collapse of the country, and now you and others like you are doing the same thing to strengthen the tendency of the split in today's Russia.
          the result is not clear, but the fact that you and your kind are clearly not the "friends" of Russia. It is already clear now.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Pancir026
              Pancir026 24 October 2017 13: 09 New
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              Quote: Pancir026
              Bullshit. Moreover, complete.

              Have you confirmed my conclusion that you have nothing but nonsense behind your soul?
              Smileys like cave paintings perfectly characterize you.
      3. The comment was deleted.
    2. Basil50
      Basil50 20 October 2017 15: 56 New
      21
      * Love * for the fatherland was started by whites when they started a civil war and invited interventionists to help and began to share * one and indivisible * between their masters. Then, together with the Germans and other Europeans, they brought * democracy * to those whom they did not destroy.
      The Bolsheviks forgave and hoped for consciousness and patriotism. But then there was a bloody counter-revolution, and the heirs and followers of * whites * and Nazis openly showed their attitude towards RUSSIA and to RUSSIAN people.
      Their attitude towards us is no different from the Nazi. For them, the goal is the destruction of RUSSIA and RUSSIAN, there are no other goals, they are paid for it.
      1. domokl
        20 October 2017 16: 03 New
        +9
        Quote: Vasily50
        For them, the goal is the destruction of RUSSIA and RUSSIAN, there are no other goals, they are paid for it.

        An interesting proposition. largely agree. Indeed, the white movement was so multidirectional that it was not necessary to talk about some kind of unity. And the alliance with the interventionists largely determined the defeat of the whites ... Foreign intervention for a Russian person is a personal offense
        1. Sargas
          Sargas 21 October 2017 00: 11 New
          +2
          Grn Marshal ... Kara-Murza, read. Then - Starikov, read. As the invaders shaved whites and played along in red.
      2. svp67
        svp67 20 October 2017 16: 09 New
        +5
        Quote: Vasily50
        * Love * for the fatherland, white began to demonstrate even when they unleashed a civil war and invited interventionists to help

        But are they only? Do you know how many "red" "foreign" units fought? And it is far not only Latvians ...
        Quote: Vasily50
        and they invited the interventionists to help

        You do not own historical material. In the matter of the “invitation,” it was the Bolsheviks who were the first and the most consistent. And they invited Germans to the Russian north of Americans and British ...
        1. Tatyana
          Tatyana 20 October 2017 17: 57 New
          +5
          svp67
          In the matter of the “invitation,” it was the Bolsheviks who were the first and the most consistent. And they invited Germans to the Russian north of Americans and British ...
          Sergei! You lose sight of the participation of Western intelligence agencies,
          Firstly. For example, the English agent Kerensky was not directly related to the Bolsheviks. But he, with his decrees and participation in the leadership of the country, prepared their coming to power.
          Second, the the party of the CPSU (b) was also heterogeneous in composition. There were 2 currents in it: Trotskyists and Stalinists.
          The Trotskyists did not simply advocate a supposedly world proletarian revolution, but, in fact, advocated the colonial transfer of Russia to the foreign administration of world Jewish and Anglo-Saxon financial capital ..
          The Stalinists advocated preserving the national sovereignty of Soviet Russia and won in 1937-1938. Without this victory, the Stalinists of the USSR would not have won the Second World War ..
          1. svp67
            svp67 20 October 2017 18: 01 New
            +2
            Quote: Tatiana
            Sergei! You lose sight of the participation of Western intelligence agencies,

            Of course, of course .... And the main one, of course, is Mossad.
            1. Tatyana
              Tatyana 20 October 2017 18: 11 New
              +4
              "There was no Mossad then, but the Rothschild clan was there - and they very much financed all kinds of Social Democrats for the revolution in the Republic of Ingushetia.
              1. svp67
                svp67 20 October 2017 18: 14 New
                +3
                Quote: Tatiana
                "Mossad was not there, ....

                But I didn’t know a sinner. thank
                Quote: Tatiana
                but the Rothschilds were

                Oh, again, not in the know. And what kind of intelligence? Which country?
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 20 October 2017 18: 22 New
                  +4
                  Ha! Seryozha! Yes, I have no doubt that you are in the know! I just made it clear to you that you were "nagging" me in vain. drinks
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 20 October 2017 18: 28 New
                    +8
                    Quote: Tatiana
                    that you are "nagging" me in vain.

                    Yes, where does it. It’s just that if in their own country, citizens themselves will not make a mess, not one special service or a rich person, can not do ANYTHING in it from another country. In all these revolutions, our fault. The main thing is to understand those mistakes and not repeat them again. But alas, I see a complete repetition here. When they deal with embezzlers and outright criminals from the so-called "golden youth" very liberally ... All these steps lead to the abolition of statehood, and, therefore, to a new revolution.
                    1. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 20 October 2017 18: 37 New
                      +4
                      Then I absolutely agree with you!
                      However, for every proletarian revolution, financial capitalists create their own bourgeois counter-revolution, and for money. Money, after all, is a great force for bribing all kinds of supporters into its ranks. This is a historical truth.
                      For example, it is known that Ukrainians went to Kiev "maidan" for money as if to work, and their headquarters was at the US Embassy in Kiev.
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 20 October 2017 18: 40 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Tatiana
                        For example, it is known that Ukrainians went to Kiev "Maidan" for money, as to work.

                        Not everyone did it, but many did. And what else to do if there is no other job. But I do not justify them. We wouldn’t slide down before that. But there are already precedents.
                    2. Tatyana
                      Tatyana 20 October 2017 18: 56 New
                      +5
                      svp67
                      Not everyone did it, but many did.
                      Ideological, of course, do. But the fact is that such participation on ideology does not last long - just at the household level they need a financial margin of safety! After all, participants need to somehow feed, go to the bathhouse, change clothes. And for this they need pocket money - and not small! Therefore, one way or another, everything is based on the earnings of participants in these promotions. Especially for the unemployed!
                      But I do not justify them. We wouldn’t slide down before that. But there are already precedents.
                      The trouble is that Russian citizens have such tendency to be corrupt!
                      For example, before the election, many retirees are offered all sorts of free food packages from some candidate-marketer in power so that they vote for him. And after all, they take it (although their 80-year-old pensions are good now - they can live without free kg. They can very well eat cereals) - and they vote for him!
                  2. Sargas
                    Sargas 21 October 2017 00: 16 New
                    +2
                    Tanya, let's start the conversation by saying that any "proletarian revolution" (Maidan) begins with financing by some kind of large state.
                2. Radikal
                  Radikal 20 October 2017 23: 30 New
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  "Mossad was not there, ....

                  But I didn’t know a sinner. thank
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  but the Rothschilds were

                  Oh, again, not in the know. And what kind of intelligence? Which country?

                  This is one of the most important (and vile) world special services! Rockefeller needs to be added here to the company - from the other end! wassat
                3. zoolu350
                  zoolu350 21 October 2017 04: 36 New
                  +2
                  The owners of the Fed, who run many special services on an errand (CIA, NSA, MI-6 (8), Mossad and others).
        2. Seamaster
          Seamaster 20 October 2017 19: 11 New
          10
          Are you kidding so?
          The whites invited the GOVERNMENTAL troops of England, France, the USA, Japan, etc. - a total of 14 states.
          Volunteers from China, Austria-Hungary, the Baltic states, etc. fought on the side of the Reds.
          There is a difference?
          And as for the INVITATIONS of the Germans, Americans, the British - in more detail, pzhlst.
          And who was sitting in an English concentration camp on the island of Mudyug?
          And who captured the English tank, which stands in Arkhangelsk on Pavlin Vinogradov Avenue?
          Liebe-rasty?
          Admira Kolchak with comrade?
          Or Colonel Drozdovsky ?.
      3. 97110
        97110 20 October 2017 19: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: Vasily50
        and they invited the interventionists to help

        Here you harnessed the cart before the horse. The interventionists themselves came to see what was bad in a country without power. And these here are right here - to show what is waiting for the real owner. And to get a job at the landlord, to hold the position of the militia, executioner and servants for everything.
    3. Vend
      Vend 20 October 2017 17: 44 New
      +6
      The words in the title are good, but the author again slid to the accusation of one side. But they both betrayed. Adherents of the "white camp" betray the Soviet era, rejecting the best that has been achieved. However, they accept modern Russia, no one is fighting for the restoration of former privileges. But the adherents of the "red camp" betray not only the past of Russian history before the 1917 year, but also modern Russia, trying to pull Soviet clothing on modernity and not recognizing modern realities.
      And I think it is necessary to start the application with a memorable date for those who died in the First World War, because the ancestors of both camps died there.
      1. domokl
        20 October 2017 17: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: Wend
        However, they accept modern Russia,

        Yes, the fact of the matter is that they do not accept. Well, read the Russian emigre newspapers. For them, Putin is an enemy. For them, we are enemies.
        1. Vend
          Vend 20 October 2017 18: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: domokl
          Quote: Wend
          However, they accept modern Russia,

          Yes, the fact of the matter is that they do not accept. Well, read the Russian emigre newspapers. For them, Putin is an enemy. For them, we are enemies.

          You yourself know perfectly well what the media are. Who pays, he orders the music. Tell me which newspapers to read, I’ll be curious. . Putin is an enemy for everyone who does not believe in the future of Russia. To the revival of the country, like a bone in the throat.
          1. domokl
            20 October 2017 19: 16 New
            +1
            Quote: Wend
            You yourself know very well what the media is.

            The media always expresses a point of view. correct, not correct, extremist, patriotic ... Any, but point of opinion. Otherwise, they simply "die." So this point of view is, and it is sufficiently (at least financially) serious
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 18 New
              +2
              Quote: domokl
              So there is such a point of view and it is quite (at least financially) serious

              Sasha, that is far to go, VO is essentially also a media and here you can often see a symbiosis of the struggle of white and red with Putin bully
              zoolu350
              Neovlasovites, monarchists, edolubyub

              Here is a striking example of a fighter with Russia and Putin wink
              At the same time, on his avatar, it’s not at all Lenin’s armored car laughing
              1. zoolu350
                zoolu350 21 October 2017 08: 41 New
                +1
                If you are talking about me, then I’m a fighter with the oligarchy of the Russian Federation, and Putin is only his hired manager. I am for Great Russia (USSR), and you are for its stump (RF), which arose as a result of the Bialowieza betrayal. A claim in the avatar is empty, because the chassis of the Leninist armored car was made on the British Isles. You just inscription on the car: "Forward to the Eurasian Empire!" did not make out.
                1. Serg65
                  Serg65 21 October 2017 09: 04 New
                  +5
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  I am for Great Russia (USSR),

                  Two questions. comrade wrestler ...
                  What is your understanding of "Great Russia (USSR)?
                  How do you expect to achieve your goals?
                  1. zoolu350
                    zoolu350 21 October 2017 09: 12 New
                    +2
                    1. Look at the political map of the USSR;
                    2. 1-the destruction of the power of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation and the nationalization of all assets, 2- the formation of a new socialist ideology, 3- the implementation of a new Industrialization, 4- the trial of a tagged and Bialowieza company with the announcement of their traitors and declaring their contracts null and void, 4-ultimatum to each from the former republics on holding a referendum on secession from the USSR in their components.
                    These are the highlights.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 09: 21 New
                      +8
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      4-ultimatum to each of the former republics ...

                      Well, let's say, they sent you with your ultimatum to ... or to ... then what?
                      Quote: A. Gaidar, “Timur and his team”
                      “- ... an ultimatum. What is it, I don’t know ...
                      - This is such an international word. They will beat ... "
                      1. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 21 October 2017 09: 25 New
                        +1
                        They asked the question themselves, and they themselves answered it (moreover, correctly). Why then asked a question? And this man wants to send me to doctors. Marasmus!
                    2. Serg65
                      Serg65 21 October 2017 09: 38 New
                      +3
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      1-destruction of the power of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation and the nationalization of all assets

                      Well, destroyed and nationalized, but how will you pretend to be
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      conducting a new Industrialization,

                      ??
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      an ultimatum to each of the former republics on holding a referendum on secession from the USSR in their constituent parts.

                      And if, as Golovan Jack noted, they will send you, then you will go to war on the former republics ???
                      1. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 21 October 2017 13: 18 New
                        +2
                        The oligarchy of the Russian Federation on offshore has so much hobbled, enough for an expedition to Pluto. If nat. the elite refuses to hold a referendum in the territory controlled by it, it’s not sure that all its inhabitants want "independence", which means they are occupiers, separatists and rebels, so the first restorations should be carried out as cruelly as possible to these nat. the elites. The following taught by bitter experience will hold referenda without unnecessary gestures.
        2. polpot
          polpot 20 October 2017 20: 09 New
          +1
          Well, I think the descendants of the White Guards do not particularly read these publications, because they don’t know how to read Russian, and an audience like Chichvarkin or Nevzlin obviously doesn’t feel any special love for the president, but the hell with them was Herzen and Ogarev, and who remembers them and they will forget these and Russia will as it was
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 21 October 2017 04: 43 New
        +1
        The Reds do not agree with the existence of the Russian Federation because it is the result of a treacherous Belovezhsky conspiracy, as a result of which Great Russia (USSR) was destroyed. Neo-Vlasovites, monarchists, ediolyubov agree to accept this state of affairs, that is, to accept treason and defeat, but for us the struggle continues.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 07: 05 New
          11
          Quote: zoolu350
          Great Russia (USSR)

          Ahem ... Georgia, Latvia-Lithuania-Estonia - is this also, in your opinion, part of "Great Russia"?
          Here's what everything rested on:
          Sapienti sat.
          1. zoolu350
            zoolu350 21 October 2017 07: 09 New
            0
            Of course, parts, and if they want to live separately, then let the rest of the USSR pay the money that was invested in them according to your table, well, or let the Fed owners pay for them.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 07: 14 New
              11
              Quote: zoolu350
              if they want to live separately ...

              They, you see, already live separately. 25+ years old already. You slept a quarter century, and just woke up? Good morning to you.
              Quote: zoolu350
              o let them pay the rest of the USSR the money invested in them according to your table

              This is not a "my" table.
              Your wish “let them pay”, please address the leadership of the respective, ahem, states.
              I even know roughly where they will send you.
              Quote: zoolu350
              well, or let the Fed owners pay for them.

              For the third time in my memory I’m interested in you - what kind of "owners of the Fed" these are. I have not heard the answer yet.
              Do you have obsessions? This is alarming, this is to the doctor ... profile.
              That's about as yes
              1. zoolu350
                zoolu350 21 October 2017 07: 26 New
                0
                You see, you have reconciled and support their separation, which means you are either a Neovlas or Edrolyub, that is, an enemy. When the power of the oligarchy of the Russian Federation falls, labeled and Bialowieza ... will be convicted and executed, the Russian people will have the appropriate grounds, forces and resources, then this question will be raised before all the wreckage of the USSR and the nat. the elites will have an acute question: “how to save your own skin”, and not someone to send somewhere. The owners of the Fed are the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, Dupons and others who were at the forefront of the creation of the Fed. Owners of green cut paper. For you, the best doctor is a pathologist.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 07: 57 New
                  +8
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  You see, you have reconciled and support their separation, which means you are either a Neovlas or Edrolyub, that is, an enemy

                  I’m saying that you have obsessions. At an early stage, this is treated ... to the doctor, on the run - march!
                  And you don’t know enough about me to give me ratings and glue me tags stop
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  The owners of the Fed are the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Morgans, the Dupons and others who stood at the origins of the creation of the Fed

                  All. The level of knowledge is clear, thanks laughing
                  Just in case, for your information - the Fed will not print a single dollar without the approval of the US Congress.
                  So who is it, sorry, the owners? recourse
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  For you, the best doctor is a pathologist

                  We’ll all be there ... do not promise wink
                  1. zoolu350
                    zoolu350 21 October 2017 08: 01 New
                    0
                    Enlighten yourself. Finding out who you are by analyzing your answers is not very difficult. Of course we will all be there, but you hope early, for burying enemies is much more pleasant than friends.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 08: 42 New
                      +8
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      All. The level of knowledge is clear, thanks

                      Quote: zoolu350
                      Yes, nothing, enlighten

                      Everything is even worse than I thought ... "Insolence is the second happiness", so zoolu350 ? wink
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      you hope early, for burying enemies is much nicer than friends

                      So bury ... enemies. But the doctor still shows up, until it's too late ... if it's not too late - at a distance, I'm sorry, I just can’t make a diagnosis.
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      Finding out who you are by analyzing your answers is not very difficult.

                      This is self-confidence. What is also not great request
                      Okay, hang up. I'm not interested in you anymore hi
                      1. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 21 October 2017 08: 49 New
                        0
                        You are basically the same for me, but since you are an enemy, you will have to “kick” you in those topics where you will whitewash the oligarchy of the Russian Federation and prove every failure with the greatness of the KhPP. So until the "hot" Civil War has begun, we are fighting here so far.
                2. Serg65
                  Serg65 21 October 2017 09: 43 New
                  +6
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  then you are either neovlasovtsy or edrolub, that is, the enemy

                  what Young man, do you want to fill the country with blood, again discard its development decades ago, and at the same time you do not consider yourself an enemy? !!!
                  Quote: zoolu350
                  The owners of the Fed are the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, Dupons and others who were at the forefront of the creation of the Fed.

                  laughing But they stood at the origins of the creation of the USSR, i.e. to create a new USSR again you need to ask for their help?
                  1. zoolu350
                    zoolu350 21 October 2017 13: 09 New
                    0
                    I consider you to be enemies of Great Russia (USSR), blood will have to be shed if the oligarchy of the Russian Federation and its slaves begin to counteract the actions of the Russian people to seize the stolen goods from them. All these measures will be carried out to accelerate the industrial, scientific, military, political and other potentials of the state. The owners of the Fed were seen in repeated attempts to destroy Great Russia (USSR), so no need to lie.
                    1. Serg65
                      Serg65 21 October 2017 13: 21 New
                      +5
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      All these measures will be carried out to accelerate the industrial, scientific, military, political and other potentials of the state.

                      bully Blessed is he who believes !!
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      blood will have to be shed

                      What, again I want to drink Russian blood belay
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      destroy Great Russia (USSR)

                      laughing You really decide .. Great Russia or the USSR-these are two big differences !!
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 13: 43 New
                        +7
                        Quote: Serg65
                        Blessed is he who believes

                        ... warmth to him in the world (s)
                        Quote: Serg65
                        You really decide .. Great Russia or the USSR ...

                        You are talking ... with margarine. This is either a troll, or just a possessed one. Here both those and those are enough.
                      2. zoolu350
                        zoolu350 21 October 2017 15: 14 New
                        0
                        There is no difference, only people like you spend it.
                    2. Setrac
                      Setrac 22 October 2017 06: 27 New
                      0
                      Quote: zoolu350
                      blood will have to be shed

                      Start with yours.
          2. IS-80_RVGK2
            IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Sapienti sat.

            Well, yes. Your juggle is understood as a fact taken out of context. smile
      3. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: Wend
        But the adherents of the "red camp" betray not only the past of Russian history until 1917

        Yes of course. Still, you yourself would understand that at the same time you would say it would be quite good.
        Quote: Wend
        but also modern Russia, trying to stretch the Soviet “clothes” to the present and not recognizing modern realities.

        To get started, try to understand at least a little what Lenin and Stalin said, what communism is, and then we'll talk about this topic.
    4. 97110
      97110 20 October 2017 19: 27 New
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      and not wars should try on us, but LOVE FOR THE FATHERLAND.

      NoteеYou’ll get an English overcoat. And primиIt’s unlikely that something will be able to give me a new white. He no longer sees me point blank, neither as a competitor, nor as an employee. How should I reconcile him? And the essence of the contradiction between the red and white is simple - class hatred. A person with his own hands can’t give up earned without this hatred to someone’s son or daughter only by the right of his / her ownership of a part of MY work arising from the impudence, shamelessness and theft of his / her father. And only their destruction can reconcile us. I don’t know whether to shoot them. But the right to destroy private property - and ... make peace.
  2. viktorch
    viktorch 20 October 2017 15: 22 New
    +9
    in the sense of creating?
    everything has already been created, there are nobles, lackeys, you just need to fix the situation conceptually so that the children of the oligarchs are not presented for the theft of national property, because the oligarchs are excited about the factories, newspapers and steamboats and slaves surrounding them because God and the king said so and will be so forever and ever .
  3. Romey
    Romey 20 October 2017 15: 30 New
    +1
    In principle, I agree with the thesis of the author. But alas, the voice of one crying in the wilderness. Although there are positive developments. For example, the negotiations of the PDS-NPSR with the Communist Party on a united front against the semi-colonial being of the modern Russian Federation. Previously, this was fundamentally impossible. And as a modest contribution of an individual citizen to the achievement of national harmony, I undertake to personally not participate in the “red and white” srach, although I adhere to conservative-patriotic monarchist convictions, but I am ready to support any initiative aimed at saving the Motherland from whom it comes from.
    Comrade Communists! We do not have class contradictions with you, if you adhere to Marxist terminology, but there are common aspirations and interests!
    1. 97110
      97110 20 October 2017 19: 51 New
      +4
      Quote: romey
      but there are common aspirations and interests!

      Yes, sure. We really want a bigger salary. And you - more profit. Too very. Up to the military team, which should restore the constitutional order with the whispers in the event of a strike, we, who are not grateful to the owner, have nowhere to work for him, gracious, for an agrarian salary of 10 tyr.
      1. Romey
        Romey 20 October 2017 20: 47 New
        +3
        Interestingly, why did the reserve officer owe you so much? Or do you offer me to pay you with your pension? So, I'm sorry, I deserve her. lurking around the outposts and over the shelters. Where were you so scrupulous in 1991 when the party elite ruined the Union? And now turn your faces from us. Yes, it would be from what. So what do we continue to butt on, while the oligarchy is eating up the remnants of the Soviet resource ... You would have shown your proletarian hatred to the Rotenbergs and the Abramovichs, but it’s scary. They can imprison for extremism.
        1. owl
          owl 20 October 2017 21: 39 New
          0
          Quote: romey
          lurking outposts yes

          As I understand it, this ends your activity for the benefit of retirement?
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 29 New
            +3
            Quote: gufo
            As I understand it, this ends your activity for the benefit of retirement?

            And personally, what is your activity ???
        2. 97110
          97110 20 October 2017 21: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: romey
          and why did the reserve officer owe you so much?

          And set out clumsily, Mr. Reserve Officer. They gave you the opportunity to count you on the side where the bourgeoisie dug in.
      2. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 20 October 2017 22: 01 New
        +8
        Quote: 97110
        for an agricultural salary of 10 tyr

        Where is such a fabulous salary? Who do you work, dear, and in which of the regions of our vast Motherland?
        Judging by myself - I would have stretched my legs. I have a rent for odnushka in winter for seven units, and the remaining three - well, for bread and cigarettes, probably enough ...
        Not embellished slightly, by chance? wink
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 33 New
          +3
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          Where is such a fabulous salary?

          laughing Yes, a normal salary for the tax report! The rest is in the envelope ... odds for each post, for each successful post, for kindling sracha after a successful post! Who makes money like that wassat
        2. long in stock.
          long in stock. 24 October 2017 12: 04 New
          0
          yes no .. there are such salaries in the vast expanses. there are fewer .. this is as always nurses in hospitals and even cultural workers, librarians for example. now many state employees have been sent to bare salary.
  4. three-track
    three-track 20 October 2017 15: 41 New
    +8
    The Russian Orthodox Church succeeded in this - there is an attempt by the "new nobles" to create "historical Russia" as a state of "masters of life" and "vile people" on the basis of the white movement. There is an attempt to “punish” the “vile people” by the descendants of emigrants of that time ...
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: three-track
      The Russian Orthodox Church succeeded in this

      And in what exactly did the Russian Orthodox Church succeed ???
      Quote: three-track
      There is an attempt to "punish" the "vile people"

      A. So you are a representative of a vile people, wow, and what kind of people are they in which country they live?
  5. A.V.S.
    A.V.S. 20 October 2017 15: 51 New
    +5
    Mikhail Drozdovsky has long spoken out about this
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 20 October 2017 16: 20 New
      +9
      Quote: A.W.S.
      Mikhail Drozdovsky has long spoken out about this

      Quite frankly. He does not want people to go. He wants the people to crawl in front of him licking his boots ... It is a pity that not everyone was buried.
      1. A.V.S.
        A.V.S. 20 October 2017 16: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Boris55
        He doesn’t want people to walk

        Do you think that all the people signed up for the Bolshevik party ?! Strange, the Communists themselves are convinced that even in the 1923 year, the RCP (b) numbered only 386 thousand people
        1. domokl
          20 October 2017 17: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: A.W.S.
          Do you think that all the people joined the Bolshevik Party?

          But don't you idealize Major General Drozdovsky too much? I respect this general for the position. He is probably the first to openly declare that he is fighting for autocracy. For the monarchy. And his parts are in order. but what is the result? One beautiful name is Drozdovtsy ...
          And the Bolsheviks are really not many signed up. People fought against the old world. Who was personified by General Drozdovsky ... I have one great-grandfather in the Kolchak army commanding hundreds of Cossacks, and another was the commissar in the Red Army. Both Cossacks are born..Who are bastards? They are both me! .
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 43 New
            +2
            Quote: domokl
            Which of them is a bastard? They are both me! .

            what Well, probably these words should become the idea of ​​reconciliation !!!!
        2. Boris55
          Boris55 20 October 2017 18: 52 New
          +5
          Quote: A.W.S.
          Do you think that all the people signed up for the Bolshevik party ?! Strange, the Communists themselves are convinced that even in the 1923 year, the RCP (b) numbered only 386 thousand people

          White fought for their right to continue to parasitize on the labor of the majority. The Bolsheviks did not agree with these. And on one and the other hand, ordinary people fought. The common people have nothing to share among themselves. The people have long forgiven everyone BUT not when the people do not love the White Guards and their last ones who are still living and are still working on ordinary people. Do not wait!
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 58 New
            +4
            Quote: Boris55
            not when the people do not love the White Guards and their last fattening and still on the labor of ordinary people

            Whose last? The last of the white and the last of the red ????
            Gorbachev’s patrons ..
            Kosygin, from St. Petersburg workers.
            Andropov, from employees.
            Yakovlev, from the peasants.
            Father of the oligarch Prokhorov from the peasants
            They whose last ??? Yes, and how many Russian oligarchs have noble roots?
            1. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 36 New
              0
              Quote: Serg65
              Whose last? The last of the white and the last of the red ????

              Of course, white. Or do you think that to be a communist it is enough to get a membership card?
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 21 October 2017 14: 46 New
                +3
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                Of course, white.

                bully Well then, call me real communists by name?
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 50 New
                  0
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Well then, call me real communists by name?

                  Comrade Stalin is right for you? laughing
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 21 October 2017 14: 54 New
                    +4
                    Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                    Comrade Stalin is right for you?

                    I would call Comrade Stalin an imperial than a communist, by the way he answered his mother the question ... Son, and who do you work now, king is mother! wink
                    1. IS-80_RVGK2
                      IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 15: 00 New
                      0
                      Quote: Serg65
                      I would call Comrade Stalin an imperial than a communist,

                      You are more careful. The owl does not stretch on the globe, that also will crack. smile
                      He was not an imperial. I just very well understood the surrounding reality and the historical processes that take place in it. And what looks like, well, it happened. The costs of building socialism in one particular country have not yet crawled out even of feudalism.
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 21 October 2017 08: 42 New
        +4
        Quote: Boris55
        He wants the people to crawl in front of him licking his boots

        laughing And what did this man want?

        He really liked when he was called the Great Commander and in his servility hung medals on his broad chest! And when he died, those who licked his boots on the same day destroyed his portraits and began to water recently so beloved leader of such dirt, mother do not grieve!
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 21 October 2017 10: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Serg65
          And what did this man want?

          Actually, I talked about the Bolsheviks. In the CPSU (b) before the "Stalin's draft" the overwhelming majority in the party were Trotskyists. After the Second World War, they again prevailed. In the Brezhnev era of stagnation, the Trotskyists, conducting "selection" in the party cadres, brought up worthy successors to their cause. In the 90's, their dream came true.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 21 October 2017 10: 55 New
            +4
            Quote: Boris55
            Actually, I talked about the Bolsheviks

            Those. were there always traitors in the ranks of the communists?
            Quote: Boris55
            In the Brezhnev era of stagnation, the Trotskyists, conducting "selection" in the party cadres, brought up worthy successors to their cause.

            Oh, Boris? I will give you a bunch of Stalin's People’s Commissars and Stalin's Heroes of the Soviet Union who have become on the slippery path of personal enrichment with a corruption component!
            Those. By this I want to say that under tsarism and under communism there were many unpleasant facts, but tsarism and communism have sunk into the summer, and we live in a country that is trying to get out of the 90’s pit and instead of helping this country and liberals and communists, on the contrary, are trying to ruin it! hi
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 21 October 2017 11: 17 New
              0
              Quote: Serg65
              Those. were there always traitors in the ranks of the communists?

              There were traitors, but not in the sense of traitors to the USSR, but in the sense of seeing in the internal structure of the state and their place in it. Look on the internet for how many communists there were in the CPSU (B.) Before the revolution and which parties and movements joined their ranks.
              Quote: Serg65
              I will bring you a bunch of Stalin's Commissars and Stalin's Heroes of the Soviet Union

              It is not necessary from Stalin, as well as from Putin, to make the king a priest, by command of which the boyars prostrate themselves, take off their pants, back toward him with a bare back with a servile smile, holding out a jar of petroleum jelly.
              The famous Stalin - "Cadres decide everything." perfectly characterizes the lack of all revolutions - there is nobody to competently lead the country, except for the cadres of the old formation.
              Quote: Serg65
              instead of helping this country, liberals and communists, on the contrary, are trying to ruin it!

              After the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) was renamed to the CPSU in the 1952 year and the letter “b” disappeared from the abbreviation, the Bolsheviks ended in pariah. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation is a party of Trotskyists called upon to completely merge all Bolshevik Communists into the toilet of history ... hi
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 21 October 2017 11: 34 New
                +4
                Quote: Boris55
                After the year 1952

                laughing Well, I think it all started much earlier, from the 1935 year when the first officer ranks were introduced, in 40 the generals and admirals reappeared in the country, in 43, oh my God, AGAIN GOLDEN POWER, in 46 -m the Red Army ceased to exist and the Soviet Army appeared and all this, my friend Boris. happened under Stalin mdaaa!
            2. IS-80_RVGK2
              IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 38 New
              0
              Quote: Serg65
              but tsarism and communism have sunk into the summer, and we live in a country that is trying to get out of the pit of the 90s and instead of helping this country, liberals and communists, on the contrary, are trying to ruin it!

              About tsarism, maybe. But how can communism sink into oblivion, which we never built a mystery for me. And who are those glorious political people who are trying to make her great egein? laughing
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 21 October 2017 14: 50 New
                +4
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                But how can communism sink into oblivion, which we never built a mystery for me.

                Well, that’s why they didn’t build that it is impossible to materialize the ephemeral substance!
                Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
                And who are those glorious political people who are trying to make her great egein?

                Yes, all the same as in 17 ... liberals and Bolsheviks, experiments on Russia are not over yet.
                1. IS-80_RVGK2
                  IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 15: 14 New
                  0
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Well, that’s why they didn’t build that it is impossible to materialize the ephemeral substance!

                  Capitalism once seemed ephemeral. smile And how much blood was shed during its construction. Somehow the anti-advisers absolutely do not like to recall this. As well as the fact that the First World War is not the brainchild of communism.
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Yes, all the same as in 17 ... liberals and Bolsheviks, experiments on Russia are not over yet.

                  It’s strange. You already decide there. They want to ruin Russia, or still make a great egein. laughing
    2. 97110
      97110 20 October 2017 19: 53 New
      0
      Who is painted with colonel epaulets over the inscription about Major General?
    3. Sargas
      Sargas 20 October 2017 23: 27 New
      +2
      Brech. The Bolsheviks reflected the desire of the communal peasants to plow as much land as they can plow (NEP).
      And Drozdovsky is a child of his time. He is not rebuked.

      But to you reproach is that with modern knowledge you repeat nonsense, centuries ago.
  6. Mihail55
    Mihail55 20 October 2017 15: 53 New
    +4
    A hundred years have passed. We are again surrounded by ENEMIES ... and was there a time when we were expected with great joy? And at such a time gnawing among themselves to the delight of the opponents ... MUCH? Ukraine is a good example of a one-sided remaking of the memory of the past. Isn’t it time to prove the greatness of our homeland by business ... we, by and large, live for our descendants. And then they will definitely be on the drum will be the difference between some kind of "red" and "white"!
    1. domokl
      20 October 2017 15: 57 New
      +7
      The article mentions Shkuro, Krasnov and other "patriots of Russia." They fought the second world war in the German army for Russia with the Russians ... The war is not over. She just "died out" ...
      And about the descendants ... We are the descendants. And the separation after 100 years remains
    2. Gardamir
      Gardamir 20 October 2017 16: 34 New
      13
      We are again surrounded by ENEMIES
      Only one thing is interesting are you consciously or working for the bourgeoisie. Firstly, according to the proverb "the lords fight at the lackeys, the forelocks crack." Sanctions imposed against the rich Russia, the rich America. But the wealthy of Russia do not want to pay and they are fighting with the people, and so that the people do not get excited from morning till night, they show the show, oh, Ukraine, you are to blame for everything. Like the blame for our troubles is not Shuvalov and Rottenberg, but Trump and Poroshenko.
      1. domokl
        20 October 2017 18: 00 New
        +1
        Fu as not beautiful ... Why should I work for someone? I may have the ugliest bourgeois in essence. Or a Communist undercut by the Liberals. I pile deep into the Ukraine. Forgive me, my friends, Ukrainians. Life is so arranged that everything will be rewarded. And for good and for bad. Not to you, so descendants.
        "No one will give us redemption ..." remember? This is the answer to the question of who is to blame for the troubles of Ukraine.
        1. Gardamir
          Gardamir 20 October 2017 18: 55 New
          0
          Fu is not beautiful.
          sorry, but my words were intended Michael55. Sorry to be at the wrong address.
        2. Sargas
          Sargas 20 October 2017 23: 30 New
          +3
          Mr. Marshal, I remember the song - "No one will give us REDEMPTION, neither God, nor king and not hero" ...

          ... we will achieve liberation, with our own hand ...
    3. 97110
      97110 20 October 2017 19: 55 New
      0
      Quote: Michael55
      And then they will definitely be on the drum will be the difference between some kind of "red" and "white"

      Do you seriously think that they do not care: to hunch over the OWNER or become the heir of the stolen?
  7. Sergey086
    Sergey086 20 October 2017 16: 00 New
    +3
    The biggest admirers of the white movement are the descendants of the Red Commissars, most of whom are not of Russian nationality at all. White grandfathers chopped cabbage, grandchildren fell in love with liberal values ​​....
    And at the expense of trying on the Reds and the Whites, it seems like they both loved the Motherland and ruined lives for it. And their own and others, what is it now to share?
    1. ruff
      ruff 20 October 2017 16: 32 New
      +9
      Both of them loved their homeland ... Only whites loved that homeland, where they again would eat pineapples and hazel grouse from the peasants and workers, and the Reds loved their future homeland, where there would be no oppression of the majority by the minority. White’s wanted to return their estates and capitals no more ...
      1. Sergey086
        Sergey086 20 October 2017 18: 19 New
        +3
        And my fist under the cheek slept and got up with the roosters ..... no estates or palaces .... and fought on both sides ....
        1. domokl
          20 October 2017 18: 26 New
          +5
          Quote: Sergey086
          And my fist under the cheek slept and got up with the roosters ..... no estates or palaces .... and fought on both sides ....

          I will not apologize for the high words. They fought because the Russians. Some did not violate the oath, others came out against the oppressors ... A terrible time, a terrible choice ...
          1. 97110
            97110 20 October 2017 20: 01 New
            +2
            Quote: domokl
            Some did not break the oath, others came out against the oppressors ...

            I repeat. The doctor told me like an ambulance. They called. The address is two grandfathers. They said that they served in the Ataman regiment. In civilian, they say: "And they cut the red ones. And they cut the white ones. Whoever they order, they cut it." Without high words. Those who persuaded the "mass" fought for that.
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Sergey086
          and fought on both sides ....

          So what?
      2. captain
        captain 20 October 2017 19: 15 New
        +4
        Dear ruff! What are the capitals, what estates? Well, look at the social composition of the White Army! Denikin, son of a serf (father was promoted to officer for the 25-year "immaculate" service), Alekseev, son of a drummer in a regimental orchestra, Kornilov 12-th child of a Cossack cornet.
        Brusilov, an aristocrat, graduated from the Page Cadet Corps, the Tukhpachevsky Life Guardsman of the Semenovsky Infantry Regiment (Petrovsky Brigade), and they didn’t take them from poor nobles at all !!! Look at the biographies of the generals and officers who served in the Red "General Staff", there are almost all nobles. Aristocrats washed off mainly in 1917-18gg abroad and fought with the Reds by no means nobles and not for their estates and capitals, they simply did not have them. And the capital was washed away in 17, as it is now washed off in advance over the hill, so that it would not be taken away.
        1. ruff
          ruff 20 October 2017 22: 21 New
          +4
          Despite the fact that in the ranks of the whites there really were people of different classes and estates, this moment does not negate the fact that as soon as the whites captured an area, they immediately restored their previous property and legal relations. And many of the Reds did not serve for the idea, but for career and market considerations, but this does not negate the fact that, having seized power, the Bolsheviks everywhere broke the old order and built new ones, in their understanding of Marxism.
          1. owl
            owl 20 October 2017 22: 27 New
            0
            This does not negate the fact that the "turners" tell everyone how it really was!
        2. IS-80_RVGK2
          IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: captain
          The aristocrats washed away mainly in 1917-18 abroad and fought with the Reds by no means nobles and not for their estates and capitals, they simply did not have them. And the capital was washed away in 17g, as it is now washed off in advance over the hill, so that it would not be taken away.

          And now we have to cry from these facts? Who cares who fought there? Is it that capitalism will suddenly get better?
    2. MrK
      MrK 21 October 2017 12: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Sergey086
      And at the expense of trying on the Reds and the Whites, it seems like they both loved the Motherland and ruined lives for it.


      The difference is that some loved beautiful birches on the banks of the Russian river and their pocket full of dough. And others loved the simple Russian people and acted in their interests
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Sergey086
      what to share now?

      At least where are we going now. The white road is the death of the country and people.
  8. gorgo
    gorgo 20 October 2017 16: 02 New
    +4
    In general, in fact, the author does not give a complete picture. Although he is right that very few people understand (especially from the modern reds) that, for example, the white movement towards monarchism doesn’t stick to any side. That is, the normal "white" hates the monarchy no less than the Reds. Thus, I would single out three camps in general: “red”, as the successors of the Trotsky-Ulyanov’s comrade (they are sure that these people sincerely wished Russia good and happiness), “white”, as ideological descendants of the Kerensky comrade (they are sure that if everything was limited then to February, then today Russia would be part of a large friendly family of civilized and free democratic countries), and the monarchists, who believe that the root of evil was the rejection of the absolute monarchy, which is the best device not only for Russia, but for everyone state. This division will be complete and correct.
    1. Severomor
      Severomor 20 October 2017 16: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: gorgo
      "red", as the successors of Trotsky-Ulyanov’s comrade

      Thank you for I.V. Stalin was not mentioned, but it will be the 4th camp according to your graduation) - the camp of statesmen (not politicians, but statesmen) and winners!
    2. domokl
      20 October 2017 18: 03 New
      +1
      Quote: gorgo
      for example, the white movement to monarchism is not glued to any side.

      sad Two you on history. Major General Drozdovsky, mentioned in the article, advocated the monarchy. And the detachment created it from monarchists. So, you are a bit harsh about whites. There "every creature has a pair" was
    3. 97110
      97110 20 October 2017 20: 07 New
      0
      Quote: gorgo
      as the successors of the Trotsky-Ulyanov case

      In kind, I saw speakers for Trotsky only among Americans at the exhibition "Computer Science in the USA". There was one in Rostov at the stage of our surrender to them. I then presented them with 1918 in the North and the dug up garden of my great-grandfather under an artillery position. Somehow supporters of Trotsky from the United States ...
    4. zoolu350
      zoolu350 21 October 2017 04: 58 New
      0
      And green and nationalists where?
      1. 97110
        97110 22 October 2017 20: 46 New
        0
        Quote: zoolu350
        And green and nationalists where?

        "To her wall, Petka!" (A very old joke)
        1. zoolu350
          zoolu350 23 October 2017 14: 24 New
          0
          [quote = 97110 To her wall, Petka! "(A very old joke) [/ quote]
          Good direction, I affirm!
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 20 October 2017 16: 07 New
    11
    But there is an attempt by the "new nobles" on the basis of the white movement to create a "historical Russia" as a state of "masters of life" and "vile people."
    ... And why an attempt .. A state of "masters of life" has already been created and there is a "vile people" ... The hosts are becoming richer, the vile are poorer, and the Masters are becoming richer due to the vile
  10. Boris55
    Boris55 20 October 2017 16: 16 New
    +7
    Quote: Alexander Staver
    Maybe enough to wage a civil war between white and red?

    The war was going on, it is and will continue to go NOT between white and red, but between exploiters and exploited honey. He who calls on slaves to love slaveholders is much worse than the slaveholders themselves.
    1. domokl
      20 October 2017 17: 18 New
      +1
      And the one who calls on slave owners to love slaves? It’s worse or better. How is everything just ...
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 20 October 2017 18: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: domokl
        And the one who calls on slave owners to love slaves?

        Read my post carefully and do not rearrange my words in places. Call slaves to love slaveholders.
      2. zoolu350
        zoolu350 21 October 2017 05: 02 New
        +1
        These are at the level of statistical error, because they are not interesting to slave owners and in the case of very active calls to "love slaves" are destroyed by slave owners.
      3. IS-80_RVGK2
        IS-80_RVGK2 21 October 2017 14: 46 New
        0
        Quote: domokl
        And the one who calls on slave owners to love slaves?

        That naive idealist.
  11. Galleon
    Galleon 20 October 2017 16: 18 New
    +2
    Alexander, thanks for the article. You helped me look at these ebullient questions from a slightly different perspective and in the right light. This division into red and white passed through our family as well: some of the Cossacks left through the Amur to China, some remained in their native land and in their own country. Reconciliation ... It must happen in us. Only intolerance must go away and the debate subside. And then the first comment - and into the argument: "I do not agree! ..." How then?
    1. domokl
      20 October 2017 17: 22 New
      +1
      And there is no need for global solutions. It’s easier to pack up a smoke and stop the feud. All of their own. It was just that in the kuterm that was going on in the civilian it was difficult to understand something for a simple Cossack. Ataman ordered the Cossack fulfilled ...
      I personally saw how the descendants of the "red" and "white" nobles communicate. Chatting! And do not reproach for the sins of grandfathers and great-grandfathers. It's easy to judge now. As it seems. But judging by the comments, as you rightly noted, it’s difficult ...
  12. ruff
    ruff 20 October 2017 16: 19 New
    +1
    The author writes quite rightly about White’s betrayal of Russia's national interests in the civil war, about their cooperation with interventionists and nationalists of all stripes. But the position of his wretchedness, both ours and yours ..
    1. domokl
      20 October 2017 17: 24 New
      +2
      And who are ours and who are yours? Radicalism is good when you need to catch and destroy a louse. And in analyzing past events, you need to have a cold head like an iceberg
      1. ruff
        ruff 20 October 2017 18: 29 New
        +2
        Ours, in fact, are red, for even Putin and Abramovich are more likely their descendants .... How many whites remained in Russia by 1922? A few tens of thousands, at best. Almost the entire population of the former USSR, is 99.9% descendants of those who accepted the advice, or promoted it themselves. It is doubly nasty that those who, being the son or grandson of workers and peasants, figuratively support bloodsuckers of a hundred years ago.
        1. 97110
          97110 20 October 2017 20: 12 New
          0
          Quote: ruff
          supports bloodsuckers of a hundred years ago.

          And the multiplicity of the nastiness of those who support the new Russian bloodsuckers? Yesterday's pre-executive committees, secretaries of the district committees of the CPSU and the like?
          1. ruff
            ruff 20 October 2017 22: 29 New
            +2
            New bloodsuckers are almost entirely former communists, even more vile than nobles, merchants and bourgeois, priests and their accomplices of the time of the revolution. Those who were honest in their own way, oppressed and robbed, by generations and clans, and most of their views did not disown themselves from their views. And here, yesterday, a Komsomol member, a communist and employee of the KGB, an atheist and a Marxist, today a god-believing dictator, under the guise of a liberal, who claims that the USSR did nothing to the world besides galoshes worthless ....
  13. Gardamir
    Gardamir 20 October 2017 16: 26 New
    +6
    Staver seems like a lover of vinaigrettes. Mashal, do not understand understand.
    For example, I can tell from myself. A man of the people and of course for the people. I can’t be a supporter of Kolchak for a thousand reasons. But in a civil war there can be no heroes, I agree with this, and old affairs. And now you should not weigh who is more holy Lenin and Nikolai. However, the terrorist Poklonskaya setting fire to Russia for national and religious reasons. Shooters who are for the monarchy against the people. And how many are those who are against the people? So with what to reconcile, on their terms. And they have one condition, the people are cattle and must plow.
    By the way, that's why I am against everyone in the current government. Io they are all one. And do not sculpt patriots or a fifth column from them. They are all one.
    1. Sargas
      Sargas 20 October 2017 17: 02 New
      +2
      And the Civil War continues! It was the Communists who split into "Trotskyists" and "Stalinists" and split among themselves so that in the 37-38xx country washed their blood. And the “whites” are still more alive than all the living. And even the name is not particularly changed - "liberals".
      1. notingem
        notingem 20 October 2017 22: 06 New
        0
        They are not white. They are one of those who fled abroad on time.
    2. domokl
      20 October 2017 17: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      By the way, that's why I am against everyone in the current government. Io they are all one. And do not sculpt patriots or a fifth column from them. They are all one.

      lol Beat the Reds until they turn white. Beat the whites until they turn red .. It was already ... Pan ataman Tauride ... bully
      1. Sargas
        Sargas 20 October 2017 17: 37 New
        +2
        Nifiga not Wedding in Robin. I don’t remember the name of the film, but "Father Angel" appeared there.
        MB my sclerosis changes me, but it seems "2 comrades served."
        1. domokl
          20 October 2017 18: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: Sargas
          Seem "2 served comrade

          bully In secret..It is there that same angel was shot down yes The memory does not let the old frames soldier
          1. Seamaster
            Seamaster 20 October 2017 18: 49 New
            +3
            Well. actually, "Adjutant of His Excellency."
            Although the bandits are in "Two Comrades Served."
            By the way, the idea of ​​the unity of white and red goes through in both “communique” films.
            1. Sargas
              Sargas 20 October 2017 23: 35 New
              +1
              And when did the Communists deny the Russianness of the “whites” ?!

              PS, but thanks for the reminder.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 20 October 2017 18: 09 New
        +7
        Beat the Reds until they turn white. Hit the whites until they turn red
        something, somehow I didn’t understand you. There are no Reds now. But the white ones, they hang up the Mausoleum, Poklonskaya is unleashed, the war was won not by the Soviet guard, but by the cavalry of St. George, and as we recently learned, astronauts flew into the space to drink vodka.
        So with the whites it’s definitely not along the way, and the red ones are not even visible on the horizon.
        something suddenly remembered.

        1. domokl
          20 October 2017 18: 32 New
          +4
          And do not believe all that we are trying to inspire. I talked with the author of the article about Salute-7. He's not lying once. And in the control center was and knows a lot personally from the astronauts. Hollywood at Mosfilm or where else. All for a penny. Only disgusting is that they raise their people in the US, and we are trying to shove the heroes in shit ... War, her mother, a hybrid ... So, they make up heroes, while we try to mix it with dirt ...
          1. Gardamir
            Gardamir 20 October 2017 18: 58 New
            0
            The only disgusting thing is that in the USA they elevate their own, and we are trying to shove heroes into the shit
            exactly, here are my morning thoughts https://leo-tigr.livejournal.com/159910.html
            1. Sargas
              Sargas 20 October 2017 23: 54 New
              +1
              I will add a question - why do they praise Rudnev and are silently silent about the feat of A. I. Kazarsky?
        2. Sargas
          Sargas 20 October 2017 23: 45 New
          +1
          I tried to watch the clip ... The song is the pride of my youth, the yok bazaar, but the technique of perpetual saber combat ... blues ...
          I could not watch until the end ...
  14. ruff
    ruff 20 October 2017 16: 27 New
    +8
    The author tells fables, brother to brother, father to son .... The civil war was a class war, workers, middle peasants and poor, more than 90% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia supported the Reds, the kulaks, part of the middle class and the bourgeoisie - the Whites. About 40% of the officers of the imperial army served as red, 60% white. The Cossacks, a privileged estate, generally supported the whites. There were, of course, cases of split families, but not widespread and comprehensive, and mainly among the townspeople, Cossacks, intilligentsia and merchants. Progressively minded went for the Reds, the reactionaries for the Whites. there can be no reconciliation in principle, for in Russia now again 10 0-15% of the population begin to oppress the remaining 85 -90%. And again, according to the class principle. so the topic is more relevant than ever. Is it hard for the author to understand this?
    1. Severomor
      Severomor 20 October 2017 16: 45 New
      +4
      Quote: ruff
      Cossacks, a privileged estate, generally supported the whites

      Yeah, the 1st and 2nd Konarmia were purely from the Putilov and Ural workers. In your second sentence there are not enough Cossacks: "workers, middle peasants and poor, more than 2% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia supported the Reds"
      1. ruff
        ruff 20 October 2017 17: 11 New
        +5
        Some Cossacks supported the Reds, but not the main one. The Cossacks had serious reasons not to love the Bolsheviks. Economic. And with horses on you, it was. most peasants of the time. Half of the world horse stock for 1914 in Russia.
      2. domokl
        20 October 2017 17: 32 New
        +2
        Lord Cossacks. You forgot that besides the Kuban and Zaporozhye Cossacks there were others. And they fought, just like everyone else. On both sides of the front ...
      3. Sargas
        Sargas 20 October 2017 17: 35 New
        +4
        White Army, regiments of workers of the Izhevsk and Votkinsk factories
        https://tsargrad.tv/articles/raboche-krestjanskaj
        a-belaja-armija_79038
        1. ruff
          ruff 20 October 2017 18: 16 New
          +2
          So what? Both sides applied the call, and mobilizing everyone in a row. And among the workers and poor peasants, among all classes and estates, there were people who sincerely considered the Bolsheviks to be evil. But the fact is that there were a minority of such. If there were a majority of them, then White would have won. And they would not need the help of the interventionists. They would have created, like the reds, a 5.5 million army and would have smashed them.
          1. Sargas
            Sargas 21 October 2017 06: 27 New
            +1
            Everything is right, just the opposite.
            Because of this, Kara-Murza cites the example of the worldview gap and conflict, the Votkinsk and Izhevsk working regiments, because they were VOLUNTARY.
        2. Seamaster
          Seamaster 20 October 2017 18: 57 New
          +2
          Only these workers entered the army of KOMUCH (a committee of members of the Constituent Assembly - that the sailor Zheleznyak had dispersed) and fought against the Bolsheviks under the RED flag.
          And then Mr. Kolchak (at that time - a serviceman of the British army) got into the KOMUCH government, looked around and made a coup, becoming the commander in chief.
          And KOMUCH’s arrested members were not kicked (like a sailor Zheleznyak) and not shot (as comrade Trotsky would have done), but ordered the Cossacks to chop them with sabers.
          Admiral, after all, but not what-erast what.
          Or damned com.
    2. Sargas
      Sargas 20 October 2017 17: 03 New
      +1
      Slightly less than 85%. This is the percentage of peasants.
    3. domokl
      20 October 2017 17: 30 New
      +6
      Quote: ruff
      The civil war was a class war,

      Don't talk nonsense. What class war? What classes fought? The main class of Russia was the peasantry. And most of the soldiers were peasants. The class of peasants fought against the class of peasants? Well, well ...
      As a military man, I will give another example. Have you ever thought about the current concept of how loyalty to the oath? But Russian people (of all nationalities of the Republic of Ingushetia) are inherent in this ... But you ask about classiness in Siberian and Far Eastern villages. There was no class. And they fought so that the beast in the taiga scattered ... Come to Dauria. Look at the descendants of the Ungern Cossacks.
      1. ruff
        ruff 20 October 2017 18: 04 New
        +5
        The peasantry, as you rightly noted, was the largest class in the Republic of Ingushetia by 1918. And not completely homogeneous. If memory serves, then about 40% of peasants in the Republic of Ingushetia belonged to the poor, 2% to the prosperous, the rest are middle peasants. By 1919, there were 5.5 ml of fighters in the spacecraft. Mostly from peasants. Neither the interventionists, nor the help with weapons and other things helped the whites, for the mass of the peasantry did not support them. Moreover, conscription and mobilization were used by both parties, only white recruits scattered, despite executions and repressions. Siberian peasants are still a special subspecies, so to speak. Not suffering from land shortages, the majority did not see landlords spawning, more successful, due to objective reasons, than their counterparts from European Russia. In addition, much less numerous. They did not do the weather. and to the whites were more loyal. Of course, there were poor people among the Siberians, especially from the 1907-1911 resettled under the Stolypin program. Fidelity to the oath? In civil? Or until the abdication of Nicholas 2? In the first case, each officer made a choice on his own, whom to serve, the people, the masses, their interests, which the Bolsheviks personified by their policies, or by the former ruling class, which essentially ruined Russia, and afterwards, bitterly crying for lost estates, salaries and ranks, capitals brought home interventionists of all stripes. White.
      2. Seamaster
        Seamaster 20 October 2017 19: 02 New
        +1
        Sorry, but who are you writing about the oath to?
        Having abdicated, Nicholas II freed them from the oath.
        Having escaped a nurse from St. Petersburg in a dress, Kerensky freed them from the oath of office to the Provisional Government.
        Oath to the half-mad drug addict Ungern?
        Nude ...
      3. Galleon
        Galleon 20 October 2017 19: 46 New
        +2
        Dear Domocles, he did not think. The ruff in each comment here carries a blizzard: it does not understand the reasons for the peasants to decline to the Bolsheviks, calls the party, in which the lion's share of the leadership consisted of small-town natives, calls the will of the people, etc. The energy of the other, but there will not be enough thoughts for half the article, only for objections.
        1. ruff
          ruff 20 October 2017 22: 48 New
          +2
          As Sholokhov wrote, through the lips of Grigory Melekhov, there is no common truth, everyone has their own. The oppressor has its own truth, the social Darwinist, their chain dogs its own, serve the bones from the "master's table", the oppressed have their own, class or rude, communal, to drown or hang the oppressors and their dogs, though some of the fighters, often themselves become oppressors afterwards. As for the fact that the Bolsheviks partially used the ideas of the Socialist-Revolutionaries to attract the peasantry, they did not intend to work in the "white gloves" and they dodged tactical interception of rivals' initiatives. Politics is the art of the possible, especially in a poor country with an illiterate population. And as for the Evrev, you are not at all in the village, nor in the city ... Well, there was part of the assets of the RSDLP and the AUCPB as heresies, so what? So the ideology of Marxism is international ...
          1. Galleon
            Galleon 21 October 2017 10: 39 New
            +3
            "The truth is always the same," said the pharaoh. He was very smart ... "(c)
            So you’ll scratch the rally’s throat, and underneath it there’s a liberal with his nurse: “everyone has their own truth ...”
            Ruff, buddy, everyone has their own excuses, but the truth is always the same.
    4. Sargas
      Sargas 20 October 2017 17: 42 New
      +1
      The GV was not class, but philosophical. Liberals against community members.
      1. ruff
        ruff 20 October 2017 18: 09 New
        +2
        It turns out that Lenin was a communist, and Kolchak a liberal? If so then I’m under the table ... But Kolchak and Lenin in coffins from your grades spin without stopping .....
        1. domokl
          20 October 2017 18: 37 New
          +1
          Quote: ruff
          It turns out Lenin was a communist, and Kolchak is a liberal

          Get out the fish. Give me a place too what
        2. Seamaster
          Seamaster 20 October 2017 19: 42 New
          0
          Lenin was rather an orthodox utopian Marxist, dreaming of world-wide happiness FOR WORKERS.
          And talking about Kolchak, as a person and a politician with certain views, is ridiculous.
          A purely English project (the British did not hide it), which was promoted somewhere since 1915.
          Morphinist is a puppet of General Knox (from Great Britain) and Jeanine (from France).
          He lived funny and died sinfully.
        3. Sargas
          Sargas 20 October 2017 22: 48 New
          +1
          Spun around before me. Ever since the liberals accused Lenin of "counter-revolution."
          Didn't you know?
  15. free
    free 20 October 2017 17: 11 New
    +7
    Can white and red be reconciled? Can former slaves and former slave owners be reconciled if the slave owners with no sauce agree on equal rights with the former slaves?
  16. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov 20 October 2017 17: 54 New
    +6
    Why not understand it? Power is beneficial to tear in the head, divide and conquer. And there will always be some kind of worship, sacredly believing that she is doing a good deed. There is no unification of the people, there is no threat to the current government in Russia. They can continue to steal and export.
    1. domokl
      20 October 2017 18: 41 New
      +2
      Quote: andrej-shironov
      And there will always be some kind of worship, holy believing that she is doing a good thing.

      And here I do not agree. Something not much in Poklonskaya devotees. The people are laughing at the radical monarchist patriot. What to take with ... I already wrote about vaccination for the Russian people. We are not believers! "We will measure it a hundred times until we cut it off. The 90 are not in vain
      1. Sargas
        Sargas 20 October 2017 22: 53 New
        +1
        I would say it more broadly ... It was not in vain that the Soviet school made such an emphasis on the history of the Great Patriotic War ... IMHO - largely because of this, we survived the 93rd painlessly ...
        Historical memory, you know ...
  17. andrew42
    andrew42 20 October 2017 17: 59 New
    +4
    Until the forces that directly call the genocide of the Russian people come to power in Russia are all this “revolutionary double” February / October 1917, we will continue to be in that civil war that has not gone away. Until the Red Army and White Guards are defined as hostages of the New Troubles, until the Russian history textbooks are impressed that both revolutions are successive steps of the plan to destroy the Russian state in any form, until then we will be in the dark look for diamond grain among shit with bare hands. Until it is recognized that the tsarist regime of the Romanovs ceased to be an autocracy and is unable to protect their own state from the first proxy war, that the elite degenerated by 50% and bought on the values ​​of bourgeois democracy, until the "bakers" will howl their mournful songs. Until it’s clear what kind of comrade’s commissars, on the other hand, were “good investigators” against “evil whites,” throwing the “masses” into the furnace of battles, food surpluses, reprisals, etc., until then, we Russians You can fool and fool non-stop, every year that way 25.
    1. Karen
      Karen 20 October 2017 19: 36 New
      0
      Andrey, thanks - I would write the same ...
    2. zoolu350
      zoolu350 21 October 2017 05: 14 New
      0
      Another call to slaves to try on slave owners and obediently pull the yoke.
  18. Eurodav
    Eurodav 20 October 2017 18: 02 New
    +2
    Quote: Vasily50
    * Love * for the fatherland was started by whites when they started a civil war and invited interventionists to help and began to share * one and indivisible * between their masters. Then, together with the Germans and other Europeans, they brought * democracy * to those whom they did not destroy.
    The Bolsheviks forgave and hoped for consciousness and patriotism. But then there was a bloody counter-revolution, and the heirs and followers of * whites * and Nazis openly showed their attitude towards RUSSIA and to RUSSIAN people.
    Their attitude towards us is no different from the Nazi. For them, the goal is the destruction of RUSSIA and RUSSIAN, there are no other goals, they are paid for it.

    No need to blame everything on only one side, okay? And then it turns out that the commissars in dusty helmets with Jewish names were all the time nice sweet people who care about Russia! Himself is not sick of your own conclusions? They started with the whites, who somehow managed to unleash the Civil War, as if there was no Leninist slogan: “We will steal the imperialist war into the Ggazhdanskaya!” to Nazism, but, excuse me, when IV Stalin stood at the head of the country
    1. Eurodav
      Eurodav 20 October 2017 18: 22 New
      0
      he also destroyed internationalists ...
      Why the page has flown out and I can’t change it, I can’t add it ...
    2. Seamaster
      Seamaster 20 October 2017 19: 30 New
      +4
      Excuse me, when did REALLY start a civil war?
      The Bolsheviks took power almost bloodlessly (7 people died in St. Petersburg, about 400 in Moscow. And that’s all).
      The Bolsheviks immediately abolished the death penalty and released rebel generals and officers on parole.
      And it began in June with the rebellion of the White Whites and the Socialist Revolution.
      And it started.
      True, there was the Kornilov’s Ice Campaign in the winter of 1917-1918 ..
      3000 officers gathered and went (From whom? Why?) From Rostov to Yekaterinodar, on the way hanging (see the memoirs of the surviving whites) local Bolshevik mayors.
      The Bolsheviks did not like to hang themselves up; near Yekaterinodar they collected about the same number of soldiers and Cossacks, loaded a cannon, and knocked down a “lion with a ram’s head” (a characteristic was given even before the revolution by Kornilov’s colleagues).
      After which the “heroes” fled to write memoirs in France.
      And everything was quiet until the above events. 1918
      So who started the civil war?
      1. Sargas
        Sargas 20 October 2017 22: 44 New
        +2
        You forgot to mention that the Kornilovites during the “Ice Campaign” sacked all (sic!) Churches along the route.
    3. Sargas
      Sargas 20 October 2017 22: 53 New
      +1
      Leninist? Or Trotskyite?
  19. domokl
    20 October 2017 18: 48 New
    0
    STUNNED BY COMMENTS! Honestly, I'll throw one more log into the fire of discussion. And how do you look at the division of emigrants by class? After all, not only nobles went abroad. Most of all were simple peasants, workers, Cossacks ... Their descendants today also occupy some place in the pro-Russian or anti-Russian movement. How to treat them? Are they enemies or friends?
    1. ruff
      ruff 20 October 2017 19: 01 New
      +5
      Maxim died, and to hell with him ... Nobody they are now in fact. And they have no influence whatsoever. Most do not speak Russian. Aliens.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 21 October 2017 11: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: ruff
        Maxim died, and to hell with him ... Nobody they are now in fact. And they have no influence whatsoever. Most do not speak Russian. Aliens.

        There is no meaner enemy for the Russians than the Russians themselves!
    2. Seamaster
      Seamaster 20 October 2017 20: 43 New
      +3
      Well, firstly, of the 2 million people who emigrated, a significant part returned as early as the early 20s (of the famous ones, Tolstoy, General Ignatiev, even General Slashchev the hanger).
      Also quite a lot - after the 2nd World War (for example, Vertinsky, employees of the CER) ..
      Secondly, of the remaining emigrants, the aristocracy and officers were more or less compact.
      They have preserved more or less language and culture.
      The rest in the process of survival simply assimilated around the world from Poland to Paraguay. There are no more.
      Gone.
  20. Double major
    Double major 20 October 2017 20: 09 New
    +2
    It must be understood that in 1916 - 1917 we temporarily lost to the Anglo-Saxons. Like, later, in the 90s. But this should not demolish the tower, but incline to analysis and conclusions. By the way, I agree with one of the article on the site - “The Moral Code of the Builder of Communism” is almost completely written off from the Bible’s installations (who understands what it is about from the Commandments).
  21. samarin1969
    samarin1969 20 October 2017 20: 15 New
    0
    Instead of water, the author poured gasoline into the fire ...
    1. Seamaster
      Seamaster 20 October 2017 20: 49 New
      +3
      Why gas?
      He offers to forget what was in history and build a strong common Russia.
      How TODAY is this feud between the Reds and the Whites different from some blood feud in some nasty village because of a chicken stolen by a neighbor in 1763, and which led to the death of several generations of highlanders?
      Nothing.
      Only the scale of the tragedy.
      1. owl
        owl 20 October 2017 21: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: Seamaster
        Than TODAY this feud of the Reds

        the differences are that the ideas are different !, some as an example of "social equality, public ownership of the means of production ..." while others, like in the last century, have chicken and hog seasoned with a sauce called "common strong Russia". Red and white without ideology are worse than blue!
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 21 October 2017 11: 50 New
          +2
          Quote: gufo
          in some, as an example, "social equality, public ownership of the means of production

          Quote: gufo
          while others, like in the last century, have chicken and wild boar

          Those. both of your sayings agree on a better life, so what's the difference?
          Quote: gufo
          Red and white without ideology are worse than blue!

          laughing Are they better than blue with ideology ??
      2. ruff
        ruff 20 October 2017 22: 54 New
        +2
        The most interesting thing in the virtual debates of the “red” and “white” so far is that they are entirely descendants of the “red”. Only some have degenerated into gentlemen, others begin to realize that they are trying on slave chains and are preparing lashes ...
  22. 23rus
    23rus 20 October 2017 20: 41 New
    +2
    If everyone has their own love for the Fatherland, then these are two different fatherland.
    1. ALEA IACTA EST
      ALEA IACTA EST 20 October 2017 23: 12 New
      +4
      Quote: 23rus
      If everyone has their own love for the Fatherland, then these are two different fatherland.

  23. owl
    owl 20 October 2017 20: 44 New
    +5
    "And my great-grandfather of the Count of Tauride, a born Kozak, etc., the Bolsheviks took his beloved hog away and such a squeal stood on the whole farm, that even before his death, the great-grandfather remembered this moment, so now I hate the Communists but otherwise boars will answer the bastards "the idea of ​​a modern imperial judging by the comments. And in a madhouse the war will not end !!
    1. Sargas
      Sargas 20 October 2017 22: 58 New
      +1
      I plyusanul, but do not confuse the Imperials with morons.
    2. zoolu350
      zoolu350 21 October 2017 07: 12 New
      +1
      Not an imperial (for there are socialists of the imperials as well), but a monarchist-bulcohrust.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 21 October 2017 11: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: zoolu350
        for the imperials are also socialist

        laughing laughing Cool you comrades !!!!
        1. zoolu350
          zoolu350 21 October 2017 13: 23 New
          0
          And you are sad.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 21 October 2017 13: 32 New
            +3
            Quote: zoolu350
            And you are sad.

            Yes, no lady, we are just normal, ordinary people who are very tired of participating in your experiments with our liberals over our Motherland !!! Maybe you will first practice somewhere in another country?
            1. zoolu350
              zoolu350 21 October 2017 15: 22 New
              0
              You are a girl far from normal and ordinary people. Such love lovers as you, in servile zeal, urge you not to rock Abramovich’s yacht, otherwise the pool will splash out. The oligarch of the Russian Federation and so experiments on the Russian Federation heaped up so that ordinary people at least howl, even fall. And your company does not get any less imagination in the robbery of the Russian people. Are you not Mara Baghdasaryan by chance?
  24. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 20 October 2017 22: 40 New
    0
    Both red and white have long rotted in the ground, and their admirers are still biting. Still, there were giants, not people!
    1. Sargas
      Sargas 21 October 2017 00: 05 New
      +2
      Whites are still more alive than all living ones - the "liberals" are now called, but where are the "commissars" from?
      1. Yak28
        Yak28 21 October 2017 09: 25 New
        +2
        And the commissioners sold out.
  25. gorilka1962
    gorilka1962 20 October 2017 22: 53 New
    +8
    At the very beginning of the article, it is necessary to swap definitions: in February, a coup (means of production, land, finances, etc., remained in the same hands), in October, a revolution (a complete change of ownership and the political structure of society).
    1. Sargas
      Sargas 21 October 2017 00: 03 New
      +1
      I completely agree: a coup d'etat - revolution - GV - completely different situations, absolutely not necessarily related to each other.
  26. Karen
    Karen 21 October 2017 01: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Sargas
    Whites are still more alive than all living ones - the "liberals" are now called, but where are the "commissars" from?

    It seems the other way around ... It seems that Razvozzhaev’s grandmother was a Chekist and was buried on Red Square for her services in exterminating the whites.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 21 October 2017 01: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Karen
      It seems the other way around ... It seems that Razvozzhaev’s grandmother was a Chekist and was buried on Red Square for her services in exterminating the whites.

      Razvozzhaev is the “Left Front”, a radical movement for socialism in Russia and the former Soviet republics. And not Razvozzhaev’s “grandmother” is buried, but they spread false rumors that Udaltsov has. However, this is fiction.http://www.bbc.com/russian/russia/2012/10/121025_
      udaltsov_descent
  27. ilav50
    ilav50 21 October 2017 01: 22 New
    +6
    Is it possible to reconcile the “white” and “red”?

    Dreams of reconciliation of “white” and “red” are naive! And here it is not a matter of personal grievances and losses. In the 20th century, class contradictions between rich and poor were obvious to everyone. The socialist revolution in Russia at the beginning of the last century was inevitable precisely because these contradictions reached the limit and a revolutionary situation arose when "the lower classes did not want, and the upper circles could not" live in the old way. For the present modern times, the possibility of revolutionary situations has not been canceled, just as it is impossible to cancel the class struggle between the rich and the poor. Yes, indeed, in the era of socialism in the USSR, property contradictions were smoothed out, and it began to seem to our Soviet intellectuals that the world was cured of the "ulcer of capitalism" and reconciliation of the former deadly enemies - the "white" and "red" - is possible. With an easy and dexterous "hand of the West", our political changes - party, scientific, cultural and sectoral "managers" - successfully completed the restoration of capitalism in the 90s. And now it became clear to everyone again why the interests of the rich minority and the poor majority, well, did not coincide in any way and it was impossible to reconcile them. More than that. In my opinion, these contradictions are now even stronger, because in the minds of every modern person, regardless of class and class affiliation, ideas about social elitism have significantly expanded and deepened. Today, anyone who does not want to parasitize on others or that someone parasitizes on it, considers any social relations, even if they are pre-revolutionary, even counter-revolutionary, i.e. current capitalist, as a relationship of legal parasitism. And those who already occupy a privileged position in society or expect to take it and believe that this is fair, call the legitimized power and privileges of the minority puffy “meritocracy” (when power and privileges belong to the most intelligent and deserved!). Another option of the same political meaning is elitism (this means that not everyone deserves a free, elevated and comfortable life, but those who managed to rise above the crowd). And this separation of opinions (between those affirming and rejecting elitism) occurs everywhere - in any country with any social system, where real power and wealth generated by society are not given to the people, but to a minority, calling itself the ruling elite and securing the right to power and property privileges by law. These are like two polar tendencies of egoism and anti-egoism. Selfishness breeds anti-people, elitism and parasitism. Anti-egoism is rooted in nationality and opposes elitism and parasitism. How can they be combined and reconciled? Never! It is also impossible to combine fascism and Soviet socialism. These are eternal and principled enemies. Someone, by their naivety, and perhaps their maliciousness, assures us that fascism is socialism, they say the fascists called themselves National Socialists. So what?! Pol-Pot also called himself a socialist! And Mrs. Clinton considers herself a socialist. Both Hitler and Pol-Pot built their power on the basis of parasitic - exclusively authoritarian-elitist and bourgeois-nationalist interests. Their position was deeply hostile to the international communist movement. German fascism, as is already well known today, was not only created by American capital, but was directly fueled by the ideas of the Ku Klus Klan, supporters of American Nazism and fascism, who held lynching courts, passed laws on racial segregation and the superiority of whites over blacks, and laws that brutally repressed (even executed) all dissenters, including Jews, communists and socialists. Similar phenomena occur today in Ukraine. Real socialism and fascism are incompatible concepts. Fascism and Nazism (Nazism is essentially the same as fascism), imposing on the majority the ideology of superiority and domination of some over the others (the power of the superman, "Aryans", whites, a group of "Svidomo", etc.), built, as a rule, on the hostility and hatred of one people towards another is an exaggerated form of elitism, since it grows on the social basis of the legitimized superiority of the elite. Representatives of pure elitism were those who fought on the side of the "whites" in the civil war. One significant difference has long been noticed between elitism and popular socialist democracy. Supporters of elitism easily betray the interests of their country, go to the service of the conquerors, change citizenship or leave their homeland forever. And, in fact: does it really matter where the parasite is? Anti-elitists, on the contrary, are inextricably linked with the people and devoted to the interests of the people to the end. Therefore, they are up to the last stand on the defense of their state. Alas, in Soviet times, there were also trends of elitization, but not always. They rolled in waves. The beginning of the reign of the next leader, as a rule, was extremely democratic, and towards the end of the reign elitism increased. Elitism in the USSR reached its maximum level by the end of the 80s, which became the main reason for the collapse of the country and the collapse of the system of Soviet socialism. However, with the accession of market relations, elitism has set off for us in a new, even more magnificent growth. Today everyone sees: the antagonism of the people and the authorities is growing and ripening again with the growth of property stratification. How to reconcile and unite the hungry and well-fed, having and not having housing, having and not having the opportunity to be treated, the beggar and the moneybags, the one whose children are killed by scum in expensive cars, and the one who kills them? No, such reconciliation is impossible! A nation that retains the potential for social development will never agree with the legitimized power of the elite, a wealthy privileged minority. The sword of Damocles, a popular revolution and true popular socialism, will always hang over any elite at any time.
    1. zoolu350
      zoolu350 21 October 2017 05: 27 New
      +1
      I agree. We can end the civil war with us only by the complete destruction of one of the parties. And what happened in Ukraine is only a faded reflection of what will happen to us when the conditions develop. Rubilovo will be the most brutal with the use of nuclear weapons because both sides already know what will happen if they do not finish the job.
    2. Bubarius
      Bubarius 21 October 2017 19: 57 New
      0
      At point 1, for a long time there have been neither white nor red .2 all the contradictions between the smart and the rich remain. 3 monarchists and other princes are in the forest)
  28. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 21 October 2017 03: 18 New
    0
    But how can one not lead when the Reds are still sure that they won ?!
    That's when white forces everyone to admit their victory, then they will stop fighting. And so - a war to the victory, even if there is nothing left of Russia.
  29. Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 21 October 2017 09: 03 New
    +8
    Quote: zoolu350
    ... since you are an enemy, you will have to “kick” you in those topics where you will whitewash the oligarchy of the Russian Federation ...

    Go ahead, kick ... do not run into the otvetka only, I ... not harmless wink
    At the same time, and show me a couple of those where I "whitewash the oligarchy of the Russian Federation." I’m already wondering myself when I managed to do this. belay
    Quote: zoolu350
    ... until the hot Civil War began ...

    I will do everything in my power (small) so that it does not start at all.
    Quote: zoolu350
    ... while fighting here

    I do not fight with you ... You amuse me, let's say yes
    1. zoolu350
      zoolu350 21 October 2017 15: 32 New
      0
      Yes please. In the topic about the statement of the White House press secretary, when the user indicates rotmistr60 to the miserable and miserable reaction of the Russian oligarchy to the actions of the school in relation to the diplomatic missions. property, you immediately began to whitewash the oligarchy of the Russian Federation, citing the fact that "the possibilities of the Russian Federation are not the same," when even the DPRK manages to "lower" the SShM. Do not fight? Why ignore included in another topic? Are you afraid of the truth? Correctly afraid.
  30. Yak28
    Yak28 21 October 2017 09: 06 New
    +1
    The separation of power from the people, and disregard for people and their needs led to a revolution. It should be noted that if our army did not betray the king to whom they swore allegiance, then Lenin and the unarmed people would not have achieved anything. Nevertheless, the Communists were able to make the destroyed Russian the empire was a superpower. A similar situation occurred with the Soviet Union, the authorities also, due to their stupidity and greed, moved away from the people, and did not see the changes that took place in the country and in the world. Then everything was as usual, our corrupt army paired with the KGB swore the USSR , goes over to the side of the traitors of the motherland and ruins the country. But then such a leadership comes to power that one should not even dream of a superpower of equal power by the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. White and red are rich and poor, slaves and exploiters cannot be reconciled. Either all the poor or rich, then there will be peace and harmony.
    Nevertheless, it seems to me that Russia will never achieve the greatness of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, since the quality and quantity of the population is much worse than in the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR.
  31. Radikal
    Radikal 21 October 2017 10: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: domokl
    Quote: Wend
    You yourself know very well what the media is.

    The media always expresses a point of view. correct, not correct, extremist, patriotic ... Any, but point of opinion. Otherwise, they simply "die." So this point of view is, and it is sufficiently (at least financially) serious

    The media express the point of view of those who formulate and pay for this point of view, or more simply, who ordered this point. wassat They are not on their own. I mean television. radio and print media. Is that the Internet still "kicks".
  32. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 21 October 2017 12: 17 New
    0
    Maybe enough to wage a civil war between white and red?

    You are mistaken. A century and a half passed since the civilian in the USA, and there they remember whose ancestors fought on whose side.
    "Divide and rule". That principle works.
    (Enough for a long time, but .... the upper ones don’t want, but the lower classes can’t (when they try “forget-not-easy” 24 hours a day))
  33. Mihail55
    Mihail55 21 October 2017 12: 39 New
    +1
    It is not clear why, in my comments, the words "enemies" and "around us" were so twisted? Or are friends already trying to bless us? They sleep and see how else to please Russia ...
    But one must always work, such is the lot of man on this EARTH. Or is work on the OWNER always derogatory?
  34. nnz226
    nnz226 21 October 2017 19: 18 New
    0
    Why be shy: the pedestal from the failed monument to the 300 anniversary of the Romanov dynasty is used as a monument to Lenin in the city of Kostroma! It stands on a high bank, only you will rise from the pier, and here it is! Where the Ipatiev Monastery, from where the dynasty went to rule Russia. True, in the place of the Ipatiev House, where the dynasty ended (which is right!) The church now stands. And about the unfinished Civil War, look at the events in the USA, there the war in general 150 years ago ended, and they are still fighting ... The wound is because it is bleeding. Although it's time to calm down ...
    1. Bubarius
      Bubarius 21 October 2017 20: 10 New
      +2
      Yes, we don’t have any attachment to specific events, there is an ordinary conflict between masters and slaves. And it’s just ridiculous to hear claims after 100 years, someone there. This topic is usually raised with the aim of putting pressure on the present moment through the prism of the centenary revolution. And in this case, I am for the Communists, because they are more correct even from the point of view of religion, their ideals are closer.
      1. Bubarius
        Bubarius 21 October 2017 20: 14 New
        +1
        And you thought why the people so simply switched from church to communism?) It is enough to look at the current kaptserkha, with the principle of sit and bear.
  35. 97110
    97110 22 October 2017 20: 39 New
    0
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Not embellished slightly, by chance?

    This is the salary of the inspector in our district administration. Not a bureaucrat who got to the trough? This is Quiet Don. And your question allows you to ask someone you know: where do you get information about life in Russia?
  36. Old military officer
    Old military officer 24 October 2017 11: 23 New
    +1
    The theme of reconciliation between the Reds and the Whites is extremely painful; it is on it that everyone who is not lazy is speculating. and, I agree, in this way the topic of building a new Russia is blabbed, we successfully destroyed the old one and continue to achieve its deepest foundations. But here all foreign “friends” and domestic “true-minded people” help us with rapture, however, as always. The solution must be found by ourselves and it is - the Stalin era clearly showed it. Only the human factor is guilty of the destruction of the Russian state and only he must restore everything. The most important idea and principles of a just society, which worked successfully with a strong government capable of maintaining discipline and morality in society. Let someone not like these words. The Russian Orthodox Church and other faiths will not help here and cannot be a support. Let the believers exist, this is necessary, but they don’t interfere in any way with government, education, culture. They had centuries and even millennia at their disposal, and what is the result? The Western recipe leading to the degeneration of man as such Russia does not fit perfectly. So we think, friends and comrades, we think hard. Gentlemen, I do not invite to this process, categorically.
  37. sa-ag
    sa-ag 24 October 2017 11: 52 New
    +1
    “Maybe enough to wage a civil war between white and red?”

    Yeah, a hundred years later, the current bourgeoisie dreams of joining the nobility :-)
  38. Pancir026
    Pancir026 24 October 2017 12: 12 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Do you know how many "red" "foreign" units fought? And it is far not only Latvians ...

    We are in the know.
    Exactly as far as you do not know how many foreigners fought against Russia as part of the Belys or as a direct military force in the form of the Entente on the side of the Belyans against Russia.
  39. NikolaiN
    NikolaiN 24 October 2017 14: 15 New
    +1
    The whole point of the civil war ...
  40. gladcu2
    gladcu2 25 October 2017 00: 01 New
    0
    A negative attitude to Russia in public statements is a form of earnings in emigration.

    Nothing personal just business.

    Cracked morality.
  41. Sergeevich_2
    Sergeevich_2 25 October 2017 18: 42 New
    0
    Ahhhhh))) What a cheap propaganda, in the spirit of "What damned creatures you are, white, nicho, we will put the Stalin ... let's put up")))
    The author is a bastard. It is such articles that lead to a split.