Israel abandoned American convertiplanes

Osprey converting gliders will not fully replace heavy military transport helicopters CH-53 in service with the Israeli army. According to the portal flightglobal.com, The Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertoplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters.

Back in 2014, the US Department of Defense asked Congress for permission to sell six Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey converters to Israel to equip Israeli units with special operations forces. A potential deal met with resistance from some Israeli military officials.

Helicopter CH-53K King Stallion during the test.

October 13 became aware that the IDF officially "paused" the issue of purchasing army convertoplanes. Thus, in the competition for the replacement of obsolete CH-53 helicopters there are only two applicants - its newest modification, the CH-53K and the “flying car” Boeing CH-47 Chinook. At the same time, the Israeli Ministry of Defense has already shown interest in CH-53K.

CH-53K King Stallion is a heavy transport helicopter with a maximum take-off weight of almost 40 tons. It can carry over 12 tons of cargo on an external sling, and its cargo hold can accommodate up to 55 passengers. The crew of the helicopter is from two to five people - in addition to two pilots, it can be included in the composition of three arrows, providing circular protection, reports "Warspot".

Comments

[NEXUS]

Osprey's tiltrotors will not be able to fully replace the heavy military transport helicopters CH-53 in service with the Israeli army. According to the portal flightglobal.com, the Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertiplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters.

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

[The black]

On October 13, it became known that the IDF officially “paused” the issue of purchasing army convertiplanes.

The Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertiplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters.

So REFUSED or “paused”?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Black

So REFUSED or “paused”?

After the accidents in the USA of these miscarriages of the American aircraft industry, I think I refused ... Anyway, no one has come up with a slow-moving truck any better than our MI-26.

[san4es]

Quote: NEXUS

/// After accidents in the USA.

CH-53K King Stallion in Iraq lost its tail

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: san4es

Quote: NEXUS

/// After accidents in the USA.

CH-53K King Stallion in Iraq lost its tail

What a life-giving resonance does.

[Shurik70]

Quote: san4es

CH-53K King Stallion in Iraq lost its tail

Lucky pilots that fell low and immediately helped. I wonder what is the reason? The miscalculation of the designer or the trifling assembly?
And as for the purchase of a tiltrotor by Israel - their internal affair. Of course, it is beneficial for Israel to buy from the United States, even a little more expensive, but the value of an ally is worth it.
But if there is a car with high accident rate - they won’t buy it for sure. They cherish their people.

[merkava-2bet]

It was in Israel and not in Iraq.

[askort154]

dubovitskiy.1947 ...... What a life-giving resonance does


Yeah. Mi - 26 also did not escape this. At the dawn of its operation, there were several cases - the separation of the tail boom. Then this "disease" was cured.

[weksha50]

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

What a life-giving resonance does.

What do they do with the pilot ... How to put on a stretcher, how to carry ... Finish, or what?

[Baikonur]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Black

So REFUSED or “paused”?

After the accidents in the USA of these miscarriages of the American aircraft industry, I think I refused ... Anyway, no one has come up with a slow-moving truck any better than our MI-26.

This is just Cunning. FROM FROM. FROM !!!

PS: Hello everyone! I haven’t been there for a long time.

[antivatnik]

You are right, as always, dear NEXUS - for the quick delivery of a group of special forces of a dozen people, nobody has come up with anything better than the Mi-26! "miscarriages of the American aircraft industry" should not be taken seriously!

[Vanek]

Quote: anti-virus

for fast delivery dozens of special forces, better than the Mi-26, no one has come up with anything yet!

No matter what, only it will be expensive. A dozen people and on the Mi-8 is possible.

Well, ten people climbed into the Mi-26, but what about the rest of the cargo compartment (3x12 meters)? Air lead?

Quote: anti-virus

You are right as always

[Sharansky]

it was probably sarcasm, but you took it seriously)

[Vanek]

...earnestly

[Sling cutter]

And can you imagine an article under the heading: "Israel has abandoned Israel" ?!

[maxim947]

Even if the Merikos put them for free, they’ll put them on jokes anyway. What, what, but there are no fools.

[Zibelew]

By the way, I found a table with the cost of 1 flight hour of American aviation.
Osprey - out of competition!

[PN]

The titanium goose in the table is not enough. I think on the price tags he outdid the convertiplane.

[antivatnik]

If you are talking about this, then it was mostly plywood and called it “spruce goose”! Then we only dreamed about titanium!

[PN]

I'm talking about this.

[antivatnik]

Well this is not a goose, this is the "Blackbird" - SR-71. Indeed, most of the parts of the airframe, more than 90%, were made of titanium alloy.

[PN]

He also had the nickname "titanium goose", read a book about him, the whole story and the background is painted. For example, here is a fact: the development of a glazing lantern at that time cost $ 2 million
Here, by the way, about him, the article was: https://topwar.ru/6863-r-71-.html

[HOURS]

But in Russia, no?

[tol100v]

Quote: Zibelew

By the way, I found a table with the cost of 1 flight hour of American aviation.
Osprey - out of competition!

The price tag is impressive. The defense industry of the SGA is thriving.

[tomket]

Quote: Tol100v

The price tag is impressive. The defense industry of the SGA is thriving.

By the way, it’s interesting here that a twin-engine f-18 is only two bucks more expensive than a single-engine f-16, and a heavy f-15 is an order of magnitude more expensive. By the way, why the Russian VKS light fighter, and why single-engine did not dare us for nothing .....

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Zibelew

By the way, I found a table with the cost of 1 flight hour of American aviation.
Osprey - out of competition!

for the umpteenth time I’m looking at this picture and I think it was made by D ***** or made for D ******? This is in what a sick brain the idea came to compare the cost of OV-10 and B-52H? It would be nice if the CV-22B would be compared with the CH-53K, CH-47 and similar devices of the same application, but they are not even on the list! In general, insanity grows stronger

[Gray brother]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

This is in what sick brain the idea came to compare the cost of OV-10 and B-52H?

The cost of the flight hour is the same, not the airplane itself.
The comparison is impressive.
An hour of flight in a twin-screw meat grinder costs more than that of a huge strategist.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Gray Brother

The cost of the flight hour is the same, not the airplane itself.

thanks, Cap

Quote: Gray Brother

An hour of flight in a twin-screw meat grinder costs more than that of a huge strategist.

The flight cost didn’t give up at all, and it was not calculated correctly, because the schedule does not indicate the number of flights, namely, service before and after flights takes the lion's share of expenses ...
In the case of military transport aircraft with vertical take-off and landing, it is necessary to compare the cost of transporting T tons of cargo over a distance of N km. And all these pictures are nothing more than lobbying someone's interests.

[Gray brother]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

namely, service before and after flights takes the lion's share of expenses ...

This is taken into account when calculating vapsche something wear is also taken into account.
And here are tons of cargo? An hour of flight is always an hour of flight.

Here is an example of how the cost is calculated:
https://studfiles.net/preview/383125/page:6/

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Gray Brother

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

namely, service before and after flights takes the lion's share of expenses ...

This is taken into account when calculating vapsche something wear is also taken into account.

Take the same osprey and strategic bomber, the service before and after the flight is the same for them, only the first one makes a 1t km flight, and the second one has a 10-20t flight, therefore, with the same amount of raid, the osprey will have MORE pre-flight and after-flight services . Therefore, a comparison of the cost of flying hours is incorrect for different aircraft. Yes, even comparing the same cost with the same aircraft for the intended purpose is incorrect, for example, where a transport helicopter needs to spend 2 hours, Osprey will cope for 1 hour. just due to twice the speed of flight. Therefore, the painted tablet above can be safely thrown into a bucket because it does not show anything!

Quote: Gray Brother

And here are tons of cargo? An hour of flight is always an hour of flight.

Because in helicopters, fuel consumption increases more significantly with an increase in the transported mass in comparison with airplanes. Therefore, they carry either small but far or large but small distances. But for airplanes and convertiplanes, the difference in fuel consumption is not so great.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

The flight cost didn’t give up at all, and it was not calculated correctly, because the schedule does not indicate the number of flights, namely, service before and after flights takes the lion's share of expenses ...

At your leisure, you would learn how the cost of a flight hour is considered

[tomket]

Quote: Gray Brother

The cost of the flight hour is the same, not the airplane itself.
The comparison is impressive.
An hour of flight in a twin-screw meat grinder costs more than that of a huge strategist.

Yes, we like to stomp that we need a fleet only from Su-27, and if you need a light fighter, it’s necessary as a f-16, they say it's cheap. And then it turns out that the savings are only 2 bucks, compared with f-18. Very obvious by the way.

[Setrac]

Quote: Zibelew

By the way, I found a table with the cost of 1 flight hour of American aviation.

What an idiotic, meaningless table. look for a table that shows the cost of delivering a unit of ammunition per unit of distance

[Gray brother]

Quote: Setrac

look for a table that shows the cost of delivering a unit of ammunition per unit of distance

Well, nafig, let's count in parrots better.
Or in the marines

[mvg]

What an idiotic, meaningless table. look for a table that shows the cost of delivering a unit of ammunition per unit of distance

You yourself then think a little, what nonsense you drew ... maybe the meaninglessness of your comment will come by itself?

[Setrac]

Quote: mvg

You yourself then think a little, what nonsense you drew ... maybe the meaninglessness of your comment will come by itself?

In order not to look like a "not very smart person," you must indicate where I am wrong ... waiting for confirmation of your mind.

[mvg]

a unit of ammunition at a distance - cool for transporters ... it’s only against air defense (well, if the cost of the aircraft is not included in the cost of delivery). chew on? and balloons are generally out of competition

[Setrac]

Quote: mvg

only air defense against

They think so in transport - in ton-kilometers, whatever the air defense would think.

[mvg]

Ie the algorithm is suitable for bombers? just add a couple of variables to the equation, the cost of the pilot and plane dash at the exit we have ton-kilometers.

[Sharansky]

This table clearly shows the economic benefits of the MQ-1 and MQ-9 impact drone.

[Pan_hrabio]

By the way, there is a more complete version of this table:

[Per se]

I join the forum users for the future of convertiplanes. And you continue to fly on the past-

[hrych]

But do not speak for the future, it will figure it out, somehow.

[Per se]

Exactly there it will be seen, in any case, without me, people and especially the nexus will understand people ...

[hrych]

There were many dead-end projects, such as a rocket plane (shuttle), tiltrotor wing, ekranoplan, gyroplane, airship, even hovercraft, etc., which civilization rejected. At first, this seemed like a breakthrough, but trial operation showed otherwise, after which this is applied either very limitedly or not at all.

[Per se]

Well, I don’t know ... Let's see, let's see how they say !!!

[spirit]

Well, only if they bring it to mind with the 2nd or 3rd generation, we will again have to catch up with the drones

[Mih1974]

At the expense of ekranoplan, I think you are excited. Like hydroplanes, they occupy their very specialized niche. Moreover, the ekranoplans did not even have time to break in, unfortunately, therefore it is not yet possible to reliably consider them a Breakthrough or a Dead End.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Mih1974

At the expense of ekranoplan, I think you are excited

Discussed repeatedly, search the forum. Offhand: low seaworthiness, no maneuverability, inconvenience of storage, in modern conditions, military use - also none. More rust than a ship ... well, and so on.

[hrych]

Deadlock becomes apparent, usually due to accidents and casualties. The era of airships ended in the death of Hindenburg, the era of rocket-planes ended in a Shuttle disaster, the death of the SM-5 ekranoplane was the first bell at the design stage, it turned out to be a toy unsafe, the Caspian Monster died in 1964, the Orlyonka accident happened in 1980, and the other was transported in 1974 turned upside down by the waves. A pure Stealth, ended his career in Yugoslavia, the current only with reduced radio stealth and no more. The air cushion was also killed by the operation, it’s expensive, the beaches for landing are limited, etc. Airships and ekranoplanes will work limitedly, but apparently there will never be widespread use.

[Sharansky]

Quote: hrych

A pure stealth ended his career in Yugoslavia

stealth this is reduced visibility

[hrych]

The design of the f-117 and its coating were to make it completely invisible to the enemy radar. TTX its insignificant, everything is subject to invisibility. F-22, F-35 have a glider design that only reduces EPR, flight performance characteristics were not completely sacrificed for this. Therefore, of course, cars are inferior to normal fighters, but not catastrophically, like f-117.

[Sharansky]

There is and cannot be anything completely invisible. The F-117 was a breakdown of the pen, and its flat forms were due to the insufficient computing resources of computers at that time. Then, the development of computers made it possible to calculate subtle forms of a glider without sacrificing the performance characteristics of the aircraft itself. That's all.
The same could be observed, for example, with antenna designs for cell phones. When there were enough powerful and cheap computers, there were phones with built-in microstrip antennas with reduced transmitter power, which work no worse than huge external ones.

[hrych]

This is a drone. Very unpromising. The level of our bast shoes. It has research value. By and large it was necessary to start with him in front of the Shuttle. Diving into the atmosphere and using weapons (bomb bay, suspension) is utter stupidity. Any warhead is much stronger, more stable and reliable. And our recent statements about the threat to their space exploration, with pins, etc., you yourself understand are not afraid of either mobile systems or submarines, but only stationary. They do not give a disarming guarantee, but they give us a reason to put really real weapon systems, the same maneuvering nuclear units, into orbit.

[Sharansky]

Quote: hrych

This is a drone. Very unpromising.

this drone can hang in orbit for years and be used repeatedly. Roscosmos recently announced exactly the same nonsense about Falcon-9. And now, when he lost a huge market share and failed the Angara, he himself began to look for the Russian Ilon Mask.
http://tass.ru/kosmos/4171237

Quote: hrych

Diving into the atmosphere and using weapons (bomb bay, suspension) is utter stupidity

Exactly so, and this utter stupidity about the Shuttle was not invented by the Americans at all.

[mvg]

Well, at least the lisaped didn’t touch .. Also the soapless gizmo ...)))) you also need to twist the jackets.
Behind the shuttles - the future

[hrych]

Quote: mvg

Behind the shuttles - the future

Shuttles are past. The scheme won, the descent vehicle by parachute. Work is underway on the soft landing of the launch vehicle stages by Mask. Entrance into the dense atmosphere of winged structures, with defective glued thermal insulation - heresy. To understand this, you can lose a bunch of high-class specialists and expensive cars, or you can make one automatic start and make sure, but the result is one. The scheme of entry into a dense atmosphere of a spherical capsule will be replaced by devices based on other physical principles.

[Sharansky]

X-37b looks at you in surprise

[Setrac]

Quote: hrych

Work is underway on the soft landing of the launch vehicle stages by Mask.

Research in this direction has long been carried out, the Mask of Merit is not here, he takes ready-made schemes.

[Sharansky]

The merit is at least that he put it on stream and was able to do it commercially profitable. So they fantasized about this even in Soviet cartoons, so now this is the merit of Soviet artists?

[Setrac]

Quote: Sharansky

The merit is at least that he put it on stream and was able to do it commercially profitable.

I repeat once again for the dull - the Mask was presented to someone else's intellectual property, if he himself couldn’t buy it, and even more so he could not develop it.

[Sharansky]

It doesn’t matter what and how, although it was just nonsense about it.
He was able to create and put on stream, and also give Roskosmos in the number of launches. No one else in the world could.

[cast iron]

Dear "expert"! Nobody rejected the gyroplane. In their niche - they didn’t come up with anything better and safer. Is that Po-2. And hovercraft along with tiltrotors in their niche do their job.

[hrych]

This niche is in pieces around the world. Moreover, the available vessels at the VP are sold there to the Chinese in the form of the Bison, as unnecessary. And how well it all began in 1970, and Scat, and Squid, and Jeyran, well, and the Bison. Now there is a symbolic couple, they sold the Greeks and the Chinese to experiment and that's it, the topic is closed, and the good old-floating amphibious vehicles, amphibious platforms, etc. are relevant.

[cast iron]

You are not looking for reasons there. A pillow vessel is not needed, because in 1991 the government, the KGB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs destroyed the USSR - they sold their homeland and their parents for money. The USSR needed these ships, but the Russians did not. About convertiplanes, I completely agree with you. They are too dangerous to operate even in calm weather.

[hrych]

We do not take the Chinese, they are not an indicator. However, NATO also refused pillows and ekranoplans did not. Largely seen enough of our experience. A pillow, rather their topic. We have a pair of Bison, there is Bora and Himself. For special operations come in handy, there are samples in the Ministry of Emergencies. And that’s all. We were sorry Buran for stupidity, although it must be admitted that a whole generation of Shuttles worked, rather the truth is on luck. We also missed the generation of pure stealth. Yes, there was a factor of lack of finance, but it was the lack of funding for dubious projects - one of the methods of survival of the topic. There were no breakthroughs and the projects degraded, and financing would only prolong the ogony. The same shuttles are the real pride of NASA, they had constant problems and accidents, but not disasters, their finances reached monstrous disasters. The same thermal tiles they constantly fell off, but rolled to a heap of corpses. This is the price of progress.

[NEXUS]

Quote: By itself

I join the forum users for tiltrotor future.

You don’t really worry about it, otherwise the vessel will burst in your head. For such lovers of the whole western, I explained to this forum member and I tell you, while the level of technology WORLDWIDE is such that hybrids are created, but they are not reliable and, moreover, their application is narrow, and therefore it needs just as much as that you explain it.

[antivatnik]

Dear NEXUS! That's what it is for “For such lovers of the whole western,” I have nothing against your statements, but look around and tell me honestly, if everything that has been done (developed) in this very hated west, take and remove, how many will remain ? How will this affect the lives of our people? By the way, pay attention to your computer!

[NEXUS]

Quote: anti-virus

but look around and tell me honestly, if everything that has been done (developed) in this very hated west is to take and remove, how much will remain?

Enough, dear. Even the Internet is our invention, as well as TV, radio and mobile communications. I also have nothing against Western inventions, but when you observe blind worship of ALL Western ones, while our contribution to world science, aviation, space, electronics, etc. is diminished, it causes one feeling of disgust for such people, especially when a person lives in Russia and calls himself Russian.

[antivatnik]

You already explain to the uneducated what it is expressed in, this is blind worship. If I see a good, well-made, easy-to-use and useful thing that has no analogues in my (mind you!) Beloved country, I have no right to evaluate it positively? It will not be patriotic?

[NEXUS]

Quote: anti-virus

If I see a good, well-made, easy-to-use and useful thing,

The fact of the matter is that these words are not about Osprey ...

Quote: anti-virus

unparalleled in my (mind you!) beloved country

You are mistaken ... in 72 in the USSR, MI-30 was created. So what about having no analogues, it’s you who got excited.

Quote: anti-virus

I have no right to evaluate it positively?

You have the right to evaluate it as you like. Only sobriety and objectivity of the assessment should be present. The Osprey is expensive, not reliable, and structurally complex. That is, while one such Osprey is built, it buys MOs, and the troops are rolled in, two or three helicopters can be made and used without retraining flight crews, techies, etc. That is another question, EXPEDIENCY.

[ZVO]

Quote: NEXUS

You are mistaken ... in 72 in the USSR, MI-30 was created. So what about having no analogues, it’s you who got excited.

The Mi-30 never came out longer than the sketch.
There was no such tiltrotor!
do not add that which is not and was not.
Learn to be honest with yourself!

[Sharansky]

Quote: NEXUS

Even the Internet is our invention

Internet (ARPANET) and TCP / IP are DARPA products. Until then, of course, there were other computer networks, but they were not decentralized and fault tolerant. Connecting two machines, of which one is the server and the second is the client, this is not the Internet at all

[Setrac]

Quote: anti-virus

if everything is done (developed) in this most hated west

The "West" does not invent anything, everything in our world is invented by Europe, including Russia, America and Asia - they are more successfully implementing it - at the expense of huge financial and human resources.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Setrac

America and Asia - more successfully implement - at the expense of huge financial and human resources.

And I must admit, talented marketing ... this can’t be taken away from mattresses, since the traders are the most notable from them.

[poquello]

Quote: anti-virus

Dear NEXUS! That's what it is for “For such lovers of the whole western,” I have nothing against your statements, but look around and tell me honestly, if everything that has been done (developed) in this very hated west, take and remove, how many will remain ? How will this affect the lives of our people? By the way, pay attention to your computer!

sho again? Copernicus invented the Earth?

[HOURS]

Sikorsky X2 - such a rzhach)))

[79807420129]

Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertiplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters

Already someone whom, and even striped Jews do not chop.

[79807420129]

Quote: Matak

"F-35 flying iron and wunderwaffles," since our Air Force are adopting it and are very pleased.

Every whim for your money.

[rpek32]

Quote: Matak

Then you will have to recognize the value of the “F-35 flying iron and prodigy waffle,” since our Air Force is adopting it and are very pleased.

and what, there was plenty to choose from?

[tol100v]

Quote: Matak

since our Air Force take it into service and are very satisfied.

Well, if you are satisfied with the individual helmet of the pilot ($ 500 thousand), then a wagon is in your hands and money. And if you take into account its power supply, then two wagons with a handicap!

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Matak

Then you will have to recognize the value of the “F-35 flying iron and prodigy waffle,” since our Air Force is adopting it and are very pleased.

Yes, no, your Air Force is quite normal, because of the size and scope of the helicopter, that the convertiplane horseradish radish is not sweeter, but the VTOL is the thing.

[Dart2027]

Quote: NEXUS

And for me, it’s so a non-aircraft helicopter

The triumph of technology over common sense.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Dart2027

The triumph of technology over common sense.

Well, yes ... not only is it more expensive than any cargo helicopter, it’s also much more difficult to maintain. The mattress does not care, as they say any show-off for your money. Well, Boeing and Bel are happy to try.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: NEXUS

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

I like the car. But I do not fully understand the priorities of our Air Force. There’s a dispute now at the General Staff and Moscow Region, to order until the 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I, postponing the procurement of new F-35 after the 28 of the year. And who is right?

[Maz]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: NEXUS

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

I like the car. But I do not fully understand the priorities of our Air Force. There’s a dispute now at the General Staff and Moscow Region, to order until the 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I, postponing the procurement of new F-35 after the 28 of the year. And who is right?

The one who will service them and have money is right, he will win. Jews, they are such Jews .... Brilliant, special, and chosen, but as for money, they are always among the whole planet

[Aaron Zawi]

[quote = Maz]
I like the car. But I do not fully understand the priorities of our Air Force. There’s a dispute now at the General Staff and Moscow Region, to order until the 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I, postponing the procurement of new F-35 after the 28 of the year. And who is right? [/ Quote]
The one who will service them and have money is right, he will win. Jews, they are such Jews .... Ingenious, special, and chosen, but as for money, they are always among the whole planet [/ quote]
The meaninglessness of the comment goes off scale even for you. What is bad weather in Dnepropetrovsk today?

[antivatnik]

"Jews, they are such Jews .... Ingenious, special, and chosen, but as for money, they are always on the planet" - maybe because "on board" they did not take Osprey? Where to rush for that kind of money if the country's territory from north to south is 470 km, from east to west in the widest place is 135 km?

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: NEXUS

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

I like the car. But I do not fully understand the priorities of our Air Force. There’s a dispute now at the General Staff and Moscow Region, to order until the 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I, postponing the procurement of new F-35 after the 28 of the year. And who is right?

Everyone is wrong. It’s time, you know, to strike Israel in its own invisible miracle.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

order by 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I

If the 35s were as good as they touted, then the question would not be.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Aron Zaavi

order by 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I

If the 35s were as good as they touted, then the question would not be.

F-15 can carry heavier missiles.

[Dart2027]

I doubt that this is the only thing. For the Nth number of years, the base of the US Air Force is the 15th, 16th and 18th. No matter how you read about the database with the participation of the US Air Force, one of them is certainly involved, but the 22nd and 35th somehow do not understand what they are doing. That is, they are in the gland, but I don’t hear much about their practical application.

[poquello]

Quote: Dart2027

I doubt that this is the only thing. For the Nth number of years, the base of the US Air Force is the 15th, 16th and 18th. No matter how you read about the database with the participation of the US Air Force, one of them is certainly involved, but the 22nd and 35th somehow do not understand what they are doing. That is, they are in the gland, but I don’t hear much about their practical application.

they already answered here (it was a lot of fun) - the pilots have not yet learned how to use the product

[NEXUS]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

I like the car.

I’ll tell you that back in the shaggy 72 in the USSR, a convertiplane (vintoplan) -MI-30 was developed.

In subsequent years, the development of the type of used power plant changed several times. Options with 2 and 3 TV7-117 engines or with two D-27 engines were considered. At the same time, the take-off mass of the Mi-30 was equal to 11, 20 and 30, respectively. At the initial stage, fundamental theoretical studies were carried out in the field of aerodynamics and dynamics, strength field, including calculations of some types of instability, natural oscillations of the apparatus, balancing characteristics, self-oscillations of the “air resonance” type, vertical autorotation modes, “flutter gondolas”, “chord flutter” " etc. The transport efficiency of the vintoplan, the mass of the carrier system were determined, the parameters of the propeller, tail and wing, the efficiency of the propeller, the parameters of the propeller blade and the voltage in it were selected. Developed a variety of options for the design of screws, transmissions, wings and other units.
As a result, the creation of Mi-30 was included in the state armament program for 1986-1995 years. Unfortunately, in connection with the collapse of the USSR and the economic difficulties that have arisen, the Mi-30 screw-glider did not get out of the stage of analytical and design research. In the last year of the USSR, the OKB specialists designed the 3 of various screwplanes: Mi-30С, Mi-30Д and Mi-30Л, which had a payload of 3,2, 2,5 and 0,95 tons, respectively, and passenger capacity in 21, 11 and 7 people. The first 2 converters had the maximum take-off mass in the 13, t. They were planned to be equipped with power units from 2-x TV7-117 engines, and the third Mi-30Л (3,75 tons) with a power unit from 2-X AL-34. Work was done on the creation of combat options.

[antivatnik]

“I’ll tell you that back in the shaggy year 72, a convertiplane (vintoplan) -MI-30 was developed in the USSR.” - and what, at least have assembled an experimental car? At that time, pioneer photon starships were “developed” with us and showed young artists at exhibitions! By the way, I myself believed in all this when in the 4th grade (1964) I read The Return of the Strugatsky I waited, I waited when we fly to the stars ... Yes, it’s clear I can’t wait for Mars ...

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: anti-virus

“I’ll tell you that back in the shaggy year 72, a convertiplane (vintoplan) -MI-30 was developed in the USSR.” - and what, at least have assembled an experimental car?

Here, just to gurgle.
It is written in black and white: “As a result, the creation of the Mi-30 was included in the state armament program for 1986-1995. Unfortunately, due to the collapse of the USSR and the economic difficulties that arose, the Mi-30 propeller plane did not get out of the analytical stage design studies. "
Then, we nearly lost the country, and he is talking about “photon starships” a troll.

[Svarog51]

Basil

and he is talking about "photon starships" a troll.

Well, not quite like that. But what about ZARYA? Starship annihilating relativistic nuclear. Quite adequate information, albeit fantastic. The dilogy of Soviet cinema science fiction - “Moscow-Kaseopia” and “Adolescents in the Universe”, I think, everyone remembers.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: anti-virus

“I’ll tell you that back in the shaggy year 72, a convertiplane (vintoplan) -MI-30 was developed in the USSR.” - and what, at least have assembled an experimental car? At that time, pioneer photon starships were “developed” with us and showed young artists at exhibitions! By the way, I myself believed in all this when in the 4th grade (1964) I read The Return of the Strugatsky I waited, I waited when we fly to the stars ... Yes, it’s clear I can’t wait for Mars ...

So it was not really needed. There were other, more important tasks. For example, Caliber is not abandoned. Basalts, Mobile missile systems ..... Alligators, Night hunters, etc.

[ammunition]

Quote: anti-virus

.Yes can be seen and I can not wait for Mars

To the moon would wait -))))

[Orionvit]

Quote: anti-virus

At that time pioneer photon starships were “developed” with us and shown at the exhibitions of young

So it is probably with you. In general, it’s a secret, if you still don’t know, Russia is still developing the groundwork that was laid precisely in those years. So what about the pioneers is not necessary.

[poquello]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

a third F-35 squadron or a third F-15I, delaying procurement of new F-35s after 28 years. And who is right?

but from the point of view of whom?

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: poquello

Quote: Aron Zaavi

a third F-35 squadron or a third F-15I, delaying procurement of new F-35s after 28 years. And who is right?

but from the point of view of whom?

Question questions! On the one hand, an exceptional nation, but on the other - God's chosen! The battle of the titans is scheduled, however.

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

There’s a dispute now at the General Staff and the Moscow Region, to order the third F-2024 squadron or the third F-35I until 15, postponing the purchase of new F-35s after 28 years. And who is right?

Like who? Local Israeli hunger-strikers, who, with clauda foam, argued that having no analogues, a child prodigy is a panacea for all Israeli troubles. Therefore - buy, do not hesitate!

[Orionvit]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

I like the car

And I may like a neighbor's wife. A beautiful bitch, but only on the basis of complaints from a neighbor, there is a dummy in “exploitation” and a road in “maintenance”. And getting divorced late, property acquired, and children are growing. Such is the "tiltrotor" of a neighbor.

[antivatnik]

The first airplanes also did not shine with flight characteristics. Turnplanes are a relatively new direction, so not everything goes smoothly. A matter of time.

[NEXUS]

Quote: anti-virus

The first airplanes also did not shine with flight characteristics. Turnplanes are a relatively new direction, so not everything goes smoothly. A matter of time.

Bell V-22 Osprey (from the English osprey - osprey) - American convertiplane (an apparatus that combines the individual advantages of an airplane and a helicopter). The only mass-produced convertiplane developed in the USA over 30 years by Boeing and Bell. It is in service with the United States Marine Corps and the United States Navy.

Despite the fact that a little over a hundred years have passed since the flight of the Wright Brothers.

[antivatnik]

The program of the domestic Ka-22 rotorcraft, in the mid-sixties, was simply closed after several accidents, but could be the first in this business! Of the 4 aircraft, not a single one has survived to this day - the last 90% finished Ka-22 was destroyed at the Tashkent Aviation Plant in the late 1990s after several attempts to attach it to museums. Like this .

[NEXUS]

Well, the USSR was one of the first ...

In the prewar years in the USSR, at the Air Force Engineering Academy and the Moscow Aviation Institute, under the leadership of Boris Yuryev (author of the Yuryev helicopter automatic swashplate), many conceptual projects of helicopter-airplanes were put forward, including both various convertiplane projects and various flying saucer projects (curiously, Yuryev put forward his first project of a flying saucer back in 1921). However, among all these projects, “helicopter-airplanes” were mainly dominated by the popular at that time projects of aircraft with a vertical take-off position (that is, before take-off the plane was rotated 90 ° vertically, then it takes off in a helicopter and rotates 90 degrees and flies in an airplane). As for the convertiplanes, as an example of Yuriev’s projects, one can cite the concept of a biplane of a tandem scheme between which wings there should have been a pair of rotary screws. There was also a rotorcraft project in the literal sense of the word, which was supposed to have rotors located inside the wing (similarly, rotors were located at the Ryan-General Electric XV-5 jet). The closest to the classic convertiplanes was the 1934 project - the Sokol fighter with a rotary wing and a pair of propellers in gondolas, in other words having a classic look for both tilting and fighters of that era (with the exception of gondolas at the ends of the wing and the absence of a propeller on nose that looks like La-5). What is curious, despite the classic appearance, the gondolas did not carry engines under the project, and the engine (despite the appearance of the fighter of that era) should have been located behind the pilot's back. None of the projects of "helicopter-airplanes" Yuryev was never implemented, and in the best case, the projects reached only blowing models in the wind tunnel. In the post-war years, Yuriev and his students continued to work on creating concepts, but, like in the pre-war years, not a single project was implemented

The first tiltrotor project was developed in detail ..

The very first detailed project of a convertiplane was P.1003 of the Wesserflug company, developed in Germany in 1938, by designers Rohrbach and Simon.

By the way ...

The tiltrotor, which is being developed by the Russian Helicopters holding as part of the Speed ​​project, made its first flight in Russia, the company said.

Design work on the creation of a convertiplane began in 2015, and during this time significant results were achieved and the first stage of tests was carried out, during which the unmanned version of the aircraft made its first flight, said Alexander Okhonko, Director General of the VR-Technology Design Bureau.

The report says that at the moment, the designers are faced with the task of determining the best layout scheme of the aircraft, as well as the search for the necessary technologies.

The tiltrotor is equipped with a hybrid power plant and will have a speed of up to 500 km / h. In the future, it is planned to create a whole family of convertiplanes with various purposes and take-off weight. Companies in the oil and gas sector and various departments are showing interest in the development.

[Orionvit]

Quote: anti-virus

but could be the first in this business!

Could not be, but were, and what? If someone invented something, is it necessary to implement it? On rotorcraft in the Union, a tremendous theoretical and practical work was carried out, and the correct conclusion was made. "The game is not worth the candle." You probably do not understand that there are dead-end branches of development, including in aviation. Or do you doubt the Soviet engineering school?

[Svarog51]

dead end branches of development

Well, after all, it flies, and is in operation. Here, too, flew

was not accepted for a number of reasons, and one of them

"The game is not worth the candle"

Here you are certainly right. But time goes on and views change. Maybe this will someday appear The whole question is - will anyone need it?

[Orionvit]

Quote: Svarog51

Well, after all, it flies, and is in operation

Flies, I agree. But I agree more with the opinion that it sawed many billions of dollars between corporations.

[Svarog51]

it sawed many billions of dollars

I completely agree with this, the more complex the device, the more expensive it is and its operation, too. It is profitable for corporations, so they are doing it. Promise them a good profit - they will be engaged in manufacturing and nothing like that.

[poquello]

Quote: anti-virus

The first airplanes also did not shine with flight characteristics. Turnplanes are a relatively new direction, so not everything goes smoothly. A matter of time.

a completely incorrect comparison, IMHO here the gyroplane is more suitable in the progress line, those are highly specialized place in the line, so it is with this cadavre - there are many constructions leveling the advantages

[dauria]

Somehow here one forum member argued to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful

In range and speed it is better than a helicopter. And why are they Israel? You will ride the whole country along and across a bicycle in a day. The tiltrotor perfectly competes with a helicopter at a range of over 1000 km. The carpenter does not need a scalpel, the surgeon does not need an ax. The tool is selected for work.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: dauria

In range and speed it is better than a helicopter. And why are they Israel? You will ride the whole country along and across a bicycle in a day.

Israel's air force missions extend a little further than the borders of Israel itself.

[Setrac]

Quote: NEXUS

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

The Jews did not pull such a complicated technique !?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Setrac

The Jews did not pull such a complicated technique !?

Yes, this is not the point ... the question of price for the requirements and the need for this device in conditions when the country of Israel does not have 12 time zones in size.

[Orionvit]

Quote: Setrac

The Jews did not pull such a complicated technique !?

Yes, the complex technique they will pull, not the Arabs, but here the question is different. Just the Jews once again told the whole world that this unit, in fact, is nothing more than an expensive toy. And that is to say the least.

[Orionvit]

I have the same forum member, similarly argued that tiltrotor, this is the way out of all positions. And he was sitting on his own wave and no arguments reached his head.

[Svarog51]

sat on his own wave and no arguments reached his head

Very accurately noticed. There are fans and there are fanatics. The Concorde and Tu-144 were abandoned - not cost-effectively, and the White Swans - are flying. Means are needed.
Threat. I really liked your "lyrical digression" about the neighbor's "convertiplantic"

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: NEXUS

Osprey's tiltrotors will not be able to fully replace the heavy military transport helicopters CH-53 in service with the Israeli army. According to the portal flightglobal.com, the Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertiplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters.

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

Over 7 years of operation, 10 pieces were crashed. Of the available 306.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

Over 7 years of operation, 10 pieces were crashed. Of the available 306.

here it is necessary to consider not the number of flights performed, but the number of flights.
And so yes, a moronic engine design resulting in a bunch of damaged engines in the warehouses of air bases and the prohibitive costs of servicing and replacing these engines. In general, the Americans once again outwitted themselves.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

Over 7 years of operation, 10 pieces were crashed. Of the available 306.

here it is necessary to consider not the number of flights performed, but the number of flights.
And so yes, a moronic engine design resulting in a bunch of damaged engines in the warehouses of air bases and the prohibitive costs of servicing and replacing these engines. In general, the Americans once again outwitted themselves.

Strictly speaking, the theory of reliability operates with concepts such as "total time between failures", which takes into account the motor resource of ALL glands. So you and I are right.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

Strictly speaking, the theory of reliability operates with concepts such as "total time between failures", which takes into account the motor resource of ALL glands. So you and I are right.

I don’t agree, the “total time between failures” is out of place, how does it turn out if the osprey is used for delivery to prepared sites where the release of a jet stream does not tear off the surface and does not raise tons of dust, then it works fine, but as soon as it starts flying in the desert, the engine very quickly breaks down. Yes there are automation, tests, sensors, checks, etc. they prevent emergencies and as a result, the warehouses of the engines removed from the osprey are lying in warehouses, while they themselves are waiting for spare parts in the hangar. But sometimes it’s unlucky and we get an accident. And in any case, with such a process, the cost of maintenance increases due to checking and replacing the engines.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

Strictly speaking, the theory of reliability operates with concepts such as "total time between failures", which takes into account the motor resource of ALL glands. So you and I are right.

I don’t agree, the “total time between failures” is out of place, how does it turn out if the osprey is used for delivery to prepared sites where the release of a jet stream does not tear off the surface and does not raise tons of dust, then it works fine, but as soon as it starts flying in the desert, the engine very quickly breaks down. Yes there are automation, tests, sensors, checks, etc. they prevent emergencies and as a result, the warehouses of the engines removed from the osprey are lying in warehouses, while they themselves are waiting for spare parts in the hangar. But sometimes it’s unlucky and we get an accident. And in any case, with such a process, the cost of maintenance increases due to checking and replacing the engines.

To agree or not is up to you. But in any science there is no such thing as dust, stones and other obstacles. For this, the designer receives a salary in order to exclude what is harmful and can lead to accidents. Differences in temperature, pressure, humidity during flights at high altitudes also do not work to extend the life. And here it is not yet known who and what suffers more. Do not splurge. It will be right.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

For this, the designer receives a salary in order to exclude what is harmful and can lead to accidents.

I agree, they received a salary, but did it through one place. They could have made it simpler, more reliable and cheaper, but they decided to show off combining the engine, gearbox, screw and rotary nacelle into one block and got an increased accident rate as a result.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

For this, the designer receives a salary in order to exclude what is harmful and can lead to accidents.

I agree, they received a salary, but did it through one place. They could have made it simpler, more reliable and cheaper, but they decided to show off combining the engine, gearbox, screw and rotary nacelle into one block and got an increased accident rate as a result.

In order to criticize the decision of the designer, you need not only to understand the operation of the machine, but, MOST IMPORTANT- what he thought, why he thought so, by doing so and not otherwise. In other words, to get into his brain. You need to start thinking SAME. And only then you will understand where he made a mistake (as a constructor, I declare that this is done extremely rarely), or emphasized the not-so-important and correct option.
The work of the designer is not a whirlwind in empire and narcotic dreams. This tearing between millions of restrictions is impossible. A good car is only one in which a compromise has been successfully found, but with a precise choice of priority.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

In other words, to get into his brain.

Sorry, of course, but terrestrial technologies have not yet reached the advent of neural interface technology, and therefore it is impossible even theoretically to get into the brains.
As for "criticism" and in particular "only an engineer can" criticize, then this is all nonsense. Yes, not an aircraft engineer will not be able to figure out something highly specialized in the field of aviation. BUT even a student understands that a fifth wheel is unnecessary for a car. Therefore, he may well criticize the engineer proposing to insert the fifth wheel into the car. And the fact that someone is an engineer does not mean that he is always right in his opinion. Well, okay, it's all demagogy and verbiage.

Here you are kind of like an engineer. Explain to me Why install engines at the ends of the wing? My criticism is as follows:
Since it is necessary to create a system for transferring rotation between rotary screws, it makes no sense to place the engines at the ends of the wing. It is better to place them in the center of the wing. In this way, numerous problems of the dispute are solved both in terms of reliability and cost. For example, there is no jet jet downward, therefore refractory pads are unnecessary, the surface is not set on fire (landing in arid regions will not cause a fire), the turf does not break, and tons of dust do not rise into the air intake area. For example, higher protection from enemy fire (wing and fuselage protect the engine). For example, the engine life is higher (due to the installation of a system for filtering the air flow from dust and snow). For example, lower heat sensitivity of the outgoing gas stream and, as a result, more chances to get away from the rocket (due to the installation of cold air mixing systems. Cheaper production of aircraft (it is unnecessary to produce some kind of special engine, you can use existing helicopter engines). Higher scalability by increasing or decreasing the number and the quality of the engines when creating larger or smaller versions of the aircraft, and so on.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

In other words, to get into his brain.

Sorry, of course, but terrestrial technologies have not yet reached the advent of neural interface technology, and therefore it is impossible even theoretically to get into the brains.
As for "criticism" and in particular "only an engineer can" criticize, then this is all nonsense. Yes, not an aircraft engineer will not be able to figure out something highly specialized in the field of aviation. BUT even a student understands that a fifth wheel is unnecessary for a car. Therefore, he may well criticize the engineer proposing to insert the fifth wheel into the car. And the fact that someone is an engineer does not mean that he is always right in his opinion. Well, okay, it's all demagogy and verbiage.

Here you are kind of like an engineer. Explain to me Why install engines at the ends of the wing? My criticism is as follows:
Since it is necessary to create a system for transferring rotation between rotary screws, it makes no sense to place the engines at the ends of the wing. It is better to place them in the center of the wing. In this way, numerous problems of the dispute are solved both in terms of reliability and cost. For example, there is no jet jet downward, therefore refractory pads are unnecessary, the surface is not set on fire (landing in arid regions will not cause a fire), the turf does not break, and tons of dust do not rise into the air intake area. For example, higher protection from enemy fire (wing and fuselage protect the engine). For example, the engine life is higher (due to the installation of a system for filtering the air flow from dust and snow). For example, lower heat sensitivity of the outgoing gas stream and, as a result, more chances to get away from the rocket (due to the installation of cold air mixing systems. Cheaper production of aircraft (it is unnecessary to produce some kind of special engine, you can use existing helicopter engines). Higher scalability by increasing or decreasing the number and the quality of the engines when creating larger or smaller versions of the aircraft, and so on.

Since I worked for a quarter of a century in this capacity, but in other directions, I therefore have no right to offer what I understand much more poorly than a specialist in this area. Chicken eggs have never been taught anything.
Any product, any solution, and not only in the field of aviation, but also in the economy (a strange comparison, is not it) have both strengths and weaknesses, like two sides of the same coin. And the good design is balanced between Scylla and Charybdis as if the decision was made on the razor's edge.

Neurosurgery has nothing to do with it. You can study the other person’s train of thought without a scalpel. You just need to take his place. And start thinking about the problem from the very beginning, day after day, studying millions of documents, customer requirements, colleagues' suggestions, studying the subject with terms. Having walked in parallel, you can understand WHY the designer did so.
Hard? Then be silent, for you have done nothing of this.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: dubovitskiy.1947

Hard? Then be silent, for you have done nothing of this.

this is not difficult, even interesting, BUT impossible, yes yes, it is IMPOSSIBLE, because no one will give you access to this information. The maximum is building information on indirect facts. And even if you get access to the information, you cannot process it in the same sequence as the author.
So it’s useless to try to get into someone’s head. And yes, I did not talk about neurosurgery, I talked about the technology of the neurointerface, that is, a direct connection to brain neurons and reading and writing information from them.

And yes, you don’t have to get anywhere, you just have to ask a question and get an answer. The easiest method is called "how-to" . Here above I asked “why-you-can,” but you cannot provide an answer to it.

[KCA]

I don’t know transport, but UAVs are already being tested, the latest news was about ground tests of engines

[padded jacket]

Quote: article
Israel abandoned American convertiplanes

How dare you Israeli Jews? Where were your conscience and allied feelings?
Jewish citizens, you simply have to overpower yourself and urgently emphasize urgently to purchase as many konvertoplanov as your main breadwinner wants

[antivatnik]

Hello, smoking room! Still fighting the Jews? He’s already become a general twice, well done! Israel, in principle, does not need these machines - not the scale of a theater of war, in a hurry, the speed of helicopters is sufficient.

[Holoy]

Israel has well prepared a number of units for the "Tactical Landing". They need helicopters.

[Dead duck]

Convertibles relax on the sidelines ... and nervously smoke

[ProkletyiPirat]

funny ignorance ...

[antivatnik]

Mi-12, aka B-12, was never a rotorcraft! This is a normal cross-section helicopter, you would have asked before writing. I understand your cheer-patriotic impulse, but these are completely different machines. And here’s your domestic Ka-22 rotorcraft, which unfortunately was not brought to mind and did not go into the series.

[Professor]

Quote: anti-virus

Mi-12, aka B-12, was never a rotorcraft! This is a normal cross-section helicopter,

You probably wanted to say "never been a convertiplane" for he was just a rotorcraft.

[major071]

Here I would confirm to you
For this convertiplane
Let him be a rotorcraft
Well, a little airplane ...

[Aqr009]

Quote: professor

You probably wanted to say "never been a convertiplane" for he was just a rotorcraft.

For greater accuracy, the Mi-12 is not a rotorcraft, but a rotorcraft. At the Rotorcraft, in horizontal flight, the rotor operates in autorotation mode.

[Dead duck]

Quote: Aqr009

For greater accuracy, the Mi-12 is not a Rotorcraft, but a rotorcraft.

for greater accuracy - this is verbiage

[Dead duck]

Quote: anti-virus

before writing, would be interested

Before writing nonsense it’s better to be interested in, but it’s better not to write anything at all ... so you can pass for a smart one.
And where in the sentence - "Turnplanes are resting on the sidelines ... and nervously smoking" there is something about rotorcraft and everything else that you thought of yourself there ?!

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

funny ignorance ...

in what?
bring your ... prudent, weighty and most correct

[ammunition]

MI 12
Yes! .. Yeah .
Those were the days of the great science and technology.

[RusPrim]

You know convertiplane is an imperfect technique

[Evgeny Strygin]

at the moment it is stupidly expensive. Highly.
Frankly, Israel probably doesn’t need to. Cool, but expensive and complicated. Unjustified.

[wot]

Quote: Black

So REFUSED or “paused”?

they can still pause but REFUSE ... oh what will happen like Trump Nitanyahu will be .. and so on

[anjey]

and a couple, a troika of mi 26 will give odds to all the bureaucrats, buy from Russia and you will be happy ..... and with 400 ....

[Professor]

CH-53K King Stallion? So they are golden. About 100 lemons with greens apiece. Why do we need such happiness?

[WUA 518]

Quote: professor

About 100 lemons with greens apiece.

Hi Oleg.
The CH-53K King Stallion helicopter is a continuation of the CH-53 lineup, which has been produced since 1964. The new modification is the largest and most "powerful" in the family of "Stallions" (from the English. Stallion - stallion). To date, four pre-production prototypes of the CH-53K have been assembled, which have passed a series of tests and transferred to the United States Marine Corps. The cost of the first two serial samples was $ 304 million.
Even letting in the wash will not remain!

[Professor]

Quote: WUA 518

Hi Oleg.

I do not like Heiniken. Tuborg Red Label is much better. True they say you do not have it.

Quote: WUA 518

The cost of the first two production samples was $ 304 million.

In the series, it is cheaper, but not by much. Of course, I understand that we are not paying, but still ...

[Ustin Umarov]

Do you know how many Jewish engineers worked on MI 26 and, subsequently, became your countrymen?

[Reserve buildbat]

And why are these short-lived Israel? Look at the map - all of Israel can be crossed by bicycle in any direction and not be out of breath. There are no real advantages over helicopters, and there are so many shortcomings that it is generally surprising that this mutant was adopted.

[WUA 518]

Quote: Stroibat stock

And why are these short-lived Israel? Look at the map - all of Israel can be crossed by bicycle

Well, what if they are going to take over the whole world?
They even have a refueling bar on the TCB

[Svarog51]

Alexander, welcome

They even have a refueling bar on the TCB

Well, there’s nothing surprising - it can refuel in flight, something else bothers me - how will it cram a plastic payment card into the slot of an ATM of an air tanker? Who will charge it for free?

[Oleg7700]

They have a closed communication channel, identifies their code and receives a soldering from it, shekels are debited from the account

[Svarog51]

Cool! So he presented - the pilot before the flight: - Fuel and lubricants, tank to the eyeballs, then to the chief financial officer: - Put it on the map for two gas stations.

[Oleg7700]

Full cost accounting. The pilot “for his own” changes fuel and rubber, and even ammunition, repairs and modernization of the middle of the cycle, the AFAR is new there ... But here parents help, as is customary ... Have a good week.

[Svarog51]

Oleg, Nice to meet a person with a good sense of humor. And I wish you all the best.

[Oleg7700]

By the way, the picture of the Israeli tanker operator is the only one in the network. It turns out that, unlike the Americans, who carry out and observe the process “live”, here is a 3D image-spatial hologram, hence the “glasses” of the operator.

[Svarog51]

I am not surprised, refueling in the air is one of the most difficult operations, therefore the attention to it is increased. With current technology - done right. I hope you saw the film "Case in the square 36-80" and what can happen.

[Oleg7700]

It would have been clear for a long time that the Osprey is not relevant yet, given the price and cost of newly created maintenance for several machines. Moreover, Israeli companies are already participating in the upcoming Bell V-280 Valor program. (engine nacelles, composites, seats, electronics)

[voyaka uh]

Do you think because Valor did not buy?

[Oleg7700]

If only “on a pause” and some operational need still exists / appears, then we could take into account the opinion of Israel Aerospace Industries, a partner in V-280, but only as an additional argument (an allegedly successful machine turns out, and even with a looming share of white and blue assembly ) For ambiguous and extremely expensive solutions, the time is bad in connection with investigations. All "under the hood ..."

[voyaka uh]

Maybe ... With the creation of Valor, Osprey immediately turns into an outdated generation.

[poquello]

Quote: Oleg7700

It would have been clear for a long time that the Osprey is not relevant yet, given the price and cost of newly created maintenance for several machines. Moreover, Israeli companies are already participating in the upcoming Bell V-280 Valor program. (engine nacelles, composites, seats, electronics)

Well this one looks better, and we can

[Machete]

For the amount that they cost ....
To hell with them for that amount.
Someone, and the Jews know the value of their money.
And therefore, they use what has already proved to them their need.

[XXXIII]

Americans simply forgot to allocate money to buy, what greedy they are .....

[Ustin Umarov]

but not MI 26, because a lot of Jews participated in the development of this helicopter, who then came to the promised land and for them it would be a national product!
what do you think slave professor?

[XXXIII]

Quote: Ustin Umarov

think slave professor?

What is no longer a professor?

[piston]

It’s time for Israel to stop feeding America, otherwise they are playing with us. They will either transfer the embassy or they will not.

[XXXIII]

Quote: piston

It’s time for Israel to stop feeding America, otherwise they are playing with us. They will either transfer the embassy or they will not.

It’s time, it’s necessary to be independent, who better than Israel should know .....

[MadCat]

What does it mean to feed? There is no choice anyway, there are only American aircraft manufacturers who are able to produce both modern products and large batches. Russia, of course, is not considered a supplier at all, since there are no personnel to service the equipment, and for other reasons ...

[XXXIII]

The IDF officially “paused” the issue of purchasing army convertiplanes

Probably not enough money ....

[APASUS]

Maybe I’m not expressing a typical opinion, but Israel refused in vain. In essence, it was necessary to first refine this unit with designers from Israel, Israeli specialists think a little differently, they are not charged for profit like Americans ............. ...........

[Reserve buildbat]

Yes, yes! What profit is this? They are tuned only for a modest gesheft, the size of which depends on modesty, which they do not possess))) And in their mind envelopes are like fish an umbrella. There are no distances at which speed superiority justifies at times the increasing cost of an hour of flight

[APASUS]

Quote: Stroibat stock

They are tuned only for a modest gesheft, the size of which depends on modesty, which they do not have)

Israel has learned how to make electronic systems for the F-16, like an American plane, but still. But the Americans don’t have financing problems, but Israel does. That's why the Americans can push any amounts (F-35), any time (V-22 Osprey Convertible)

[Oleg7700]

Israel produces the entire F-16 power set, wings, tanks, licensed engine (slightly increasing its power) control system, its avionics. All with the permission of the copyright holder, otherwise he would criminally put the production of the F-16 on the conveyor belt for third countries.

[APASUS]

Sometimes you are strange Israelis, you seem to be supported, and again something is wrong

[Oleg7700]

I realized, just added to those interested, with the opportunity Have a nice rest.

[Aviator_]

[/ quote] and the "flying car" of the Boeing CH-47 Chinook. [quote]

Does anyone still need the CH-47 old man? Probably written off at residual value.

[piston]

You can buy something from Russia.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: piston

You can buy something from Russia.

Sell ​​dear neighbor. Ukraine. Cheap.

[piston]

Pay off Ramzan first

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: piston

Pay off Ramzan first

Lagging behind. Already. You yourself can meet him (Ramzanovites). They are very close to you.

[Atlant-1164]

in vain they are, these Israelis .. from an ally and shit should be candy. By the way, how is the cutting-edge Fu-35 + ??

[aszzz888]

The Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertiplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters.

... the Jews calculated the cost between these "rotorcraft" and wept, in the sense they refused ...

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

Quote: NEXUS

Osprey's tiltrotors will not be able to fully replace the heavy military transport helicopters CH-53 in service with the Israeli army. According to the portal flightglobal.com, the Israeli Air Force refused to purchase convertiplanes and will choose between two models of heavy helicopters.

Somehow here one forum member was proving to me that these tiltrotopes are very successful and we will come to them too. And for me, it's an under-airplane helicopter.

Just with Israeli territories and distances, the tiltrotor is the fifth leg, I feel like a mess. And so, it’s quite a promising direction, taking into account the range and speed against the helicopter. Of course, it doesn’t always go smoothly, pancakes also happen to be lumpy, but it’s not smart to cry out from purely “patriotic” motives. I'm talking about an idea, not a specific model.

[Vanek]

CH-53K King Stallion is a heavy transport helicopter with a maximum take-off weight of almost 40 tons. It is capable of carrying over 12 t cargo on the external sling, and in its cargo compartment can accommodate up to 55 passengers

Mi 26 - 25 tons payload and 224 passengers.

Jews? Why do you need Osprey?

[Arikkhab]

Israel (like the Russian Federation and the Mistrals) has a bitter experience of "cooperation" with the Europeans (especially the Germans), who, with every clash with the Arabs, imposed restrictions on the supply of weapons ... But the Russian Federation traditionally supports the Arab world, so Israel has no other way out except to buy weapons in the USA

[Oleg7700]

Therefore, a huge scientific, technical and industrial complex dealing with issues of technology development, maintenance and logistics of the Israeli Air Force, the so-called "hangar 22" (יאייא 22) at the Tel Nof airbase, operates according to completely different standards and working languages: only English and Hebrew.

[Aviator_]

I remember that the ophthalmologist Svyatoslav Fedorov also somehow bought a helicopter decommissioned after the Yugoslav war. Then it all ended for him very badly when flying from Ryazan to Moscow.

[Livonetc]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: Aron Zaavi

order by 2024 of the year the third F-35 squadron or the third F-15I

If the 35s were as good as they touted, then the question would not be.

F-15 can carry heavier missiles.

Immediately I apologize for profanity, I am not a connoisseur.
And why not just use earth-to-earth rockets?

[Arikkhab]

CH-53K King Stallion ... everything "new" is a well modernized old

[Mentat]

Quote: Sharansky

Quote: NEXUS

Even the Internet is our invention

Internet (ARPANET) and TCP / IP are DARPA products. Until then, of course, there were other computer networks, but they were not decentralized and fault tolerant. Connecting two machines, of which one is the server and the second is the client, this is not the Internet at all

The only thing the Americans did was commercialize one from their military networks. They manage to profit from ideas well, this cannot be taken away. However, similar military and scientific networks existed at that time in the USSR.
The development of global data networks also began almost simultaneously in the United States and the USSR, in the early 60s. In the USA, Kleinrock and Liklider did this, in the USSR Harkevich.
Therefore, if we can talk about some kind of US leadership in this area, then only in the field of commercialization for profit, what to expect from the USSR would be somewhat strange. Thanks to this commercialization, it is the US technology that has spread to the whole world, it can certainly be called a contribution to development, but these ideas are not exclusively owned by the USA, it could have been different if the USSR continued to develop.

[Sharansky]

There were no networks with packet routing in the USSR. All sorts of peer-to-peer and hierarchical can not be taken into account, the Internet is not about them.
The USSR until its death could not even create a digital telephone exchange. In Russia, the first honest real Russian router (this is when they do not make a sticker with a Russian label on top of the Chinese one) was made only 2 years ago.
So you're past the checkout.

[Setrac]

Quote: Sharansky

He was able to create and put on stream, and also give Roskosmos in the number of launches. No one else in the world could.

He didn’t create masks, don’t smack nonsense, he took ready-made technologies.

PySy Change your profile picture - you do not deserve this yet

[Mentat]

Quote: Sharansky

So you're past the checkout.

“Past the box office” is almost every post you make on this forum, for the reason that you are simply broadcasting a lie.
Data routing was foreseen in the work of Kharkovsky. For you, the phrase "packet routing" is an icon?

In Russia, the first honest real Russian router (this is when they do not make a sticker with a Russian label on top of the Chinese one) was made only 2 years ago.

The first router to provide data transfer using our technologies was manufactured in the USSR in the early 60s for military purposes. At that time, we already had information exchange networks. And you have some kind of distorted perception of history.
Meanwhile, the USSR in 1967 made a separation from the United States in the field of computer science and the design of computers. VM Mir-1 was created, years ahead of IBM products, which it was purchased for research purposes. You are broadcasting selective nonsense here (however, widespread in the minds of a certain type of people) that the USSR has always lagged behind in computer technology.

The USSR until its death could not even create a digital telephone exchange.

Developed digital telephone exchanges arose after the sunset of the USSR. However, work on this topic was carried out in the USSR: the “Digital” research work in the 70s, the technical design of the EATS-CA in the 80s.

To summarize, your message is another sketch in the spirit of “dark Russia, weak USSR”, contrary to objective historical facts. This is what you do on the forum all the time.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Mentat

Meanwhile, the USSR in 1967 made a separation from the United States in the field of computer science and the design of computers.

Well, he made a breakthrough, many breakthroughs, but then the backlog went. it just started at 70-80 and ended at 90-00.

[dubovitskiy.1947]

Quote: Mentat

Quote: Sharansky

So you're past the checkout.

“Past the box office” is almost every post you make on this forum, for the reason that you are simply broadcasting a lie.
Data routing was foreseen in the work of Kharkovsky. For you, the phrase "packet routing" is an icon?

In Russia, the first honest real Russian router (this is when they do not make a sticker with a Russian label on top of the Chinese one) was made only 2 years ago.

The first router to provide data transfer using our technologies was manufactured in the USSR in the early 60s for military purposes. At that time, we already had information exchange networks. And you have some kind of distorted perception of history.
Meanwhile, the USSR in 1967 made a separation from the United States in the field of computer science and the design of computers. VM Mir-1 was created, years ahead of IBM products, which it was purchased for research purposes. You are broadcasting selective nonsense here (however, widespread in the minds of a certain type of people) that the USSR has always lagged behind in computer technology.

The USSR until its death could not even create a digital telephone exchange.

Developed digital telephone exchanges arose after the sunset of the USSR. However, work on this topic was carried out in the USSR: the “Digital” research work in the 70s, the technical design of the EATS-CA in the 80s.

To summarize, your message is another sketch in the spirit of “dark Russia, weak USSR”, contrary to objective historical facts. This is what you do on the forum all the time.

His nickname exactly repeats the name of the renegade who fled to the West and broadcasts in radio voices to the USSR. I think this is no accident. Most likely, this is not a surname, these bastards always hide their data, this is a hint at the "glory" of the hero. Some flag in his hands.

[-Ac-]

Quote: professor

I do not like Heiniken. Tuborg Red Label is much better.

Beer is swipes for cattle, and alcohol is a total evil.