Military Review

Korotkostvol and self-defense

183
There were already a lot of articles on the legalization of the short-barrels on the site, but, as I noticed, the dispute between the supporters and opponents of this action in the vast majority of cases is slipping into a personalization. As they say, when the arguments end, they begin to clarify the nationality of the opponent. The other day we got hooked in languages ​​with one of my comrades just on this topic. Two hours! For two hours, two supporters of legalization, passing to the mat and proceeding to some substance, in different words spoke almost of the same thing. And I imagined the situation: supporters of legalization come to the deputy, take it for me ... the textiles and in a penetrating tone inform him that “the Law on weapons»It is necessary to make changes legalizing the short barrel. He, unable to resist pressure, says: “Not a question! I will bring the bill! What do you want to see in it? ” And supporters, with obscenities and scuffle, begin to clarify what exactly they want to see in the law. After which the deputy declares: "No, guys, you can’t agree among themselves here, but if you also give weapons ...". He told a friend, neighing. But the question remained.


Korotkostvol and self-defense


In fact, plugging is not in a weapon, as such, it is just a means. The issue in the legal provision of the concept of "self-defense". Under the current legislation, neither the pistol nor the machine gun will help the law-abiding citizen. Is that a grenade and then in the version "I will take you with me." The court, when making a decision, proceeds from the provisions of the law, and not from considerations of justice and fairness. In fact, it is correct, because the very concepts of honesty and justice, by and large, are subjective and vary depending on the outlook of each particular individual. For example: a man goes home at night, towards the company. Banal question: "Is there a smoke?". The man gets the barrel and ... It turns out the defendants. For, from the point of view of the law, he did not use a weapon at all. There were no threats to him! And do not care that this company is all "on the area" know as scumbags and a criminal element. In this particular case, no one threatened him. Simply, though not too politely, they asked to smoke.

And now another option: the situation is the same - a night, a passer-by, clearly an intoxicated company, a question. But there is a nuance: the company simply keeps the path from point A to point B, the messengers were detached to the nearest round-the-clock and people, without any ulterior motive, waiting for the messengers, asked for a cigarette and got a bullet. In this case, the passerby finds himself rightly in the dock. And now the question: how can a passerby distinguish the first company from the second? Wait until it starts to knead the crowd in 5-7 digging? (A smaller number of jackals, as a rule, does not walk).

So, first of all, it is necessary to give a clear, concrete definition that does not allow for different interpretations to the very concept: “self-defense” (there is no limit to self-defense, in my deepest conviction, and cannot be). And does this concept include property protection? That is: is it possible to shoot at someone who is trying to steal or in some way damage property belonging to a person? And some quite seriously say that it’s impossible to shoot at a body that, for example, is trying to steal the wheels from the car, because the property is a penny. As if from this it ceases to be property.

And what about such deeply subjective notions as honor and dignity? We, for the most part, are far from the nobles, who in past times solved this question in duels, but do we really have no such concepts?

In general, as I, in general, I see the law "On Arms". To obtain permission for a short-haul, a citizen of the Russian Federation must undergo a medical examination, legal (that is, he must clearly know when and under what circumstances he has the right to open fire) and fire training, that is, be able to use a weapon. And then there are enough of these buggers, who believe that the mere presence of a pistol in a holster on a belt or armpit makes them ganfeiters. In addition, it is obligatory to visit the shooting range or training ground at least once a week (without constant training, the presence of the trunk is more likely a risk factor than vice versa). The absence of the owner of the weapon in the dash more than three times in a row without a valid reason (and only a sick leave can be such) is already a reason for revoking the license.

What should, in my opinion, be part of the concept of "self-defense"? This is protection, including with the help of weapons, human life, health and property. If the situation allows interpretation, that is, a person does not twirl with fists, a knife, an ax, a barrel, promising to kill, tear, trample, etc., that is, there seems to be no immediate danger, but the person believes that from another person or group such if danger emanates, he can unbutton a holster, put a hand on a weapon and warn a person or a group of such that he will shoot at a certain distance from him. Smart and sane will move away, and fools ... There they are and the road.

Now for the property. There are enough cases when property is arrogantly and openly, knowing full well that the owner will not do anything to them. As threats, both verbal, and action they do not allow themselves. Country plots, for example. Someone squirms all summer, growing potatoes, beets, etc., arrives, and 3-5 people dig up his crop in a brazen man, and even you mock "you don't get poor." Climb on country houses, almost without hiding. Even if there is a watchman, what can he do? So any, I emphasize, any attempt on another's property, regardless of cost, a person should have the right to stop, including with the help of weapons. I shouted "stop!" And if the body did not stop or tried to escape, you can shoot.

Here, of course, situations are possible when, after shouting, the owner, in order not to bother calling the police and others, will simply shoot a person who seems to have stopped the assault. But, on the one hand, are there many people who are ready to take a sin for a rag or potato, when there is an opportunity to call the police and shove the thief with them, and on the other, who did this person call here? The criminal level will fall at times, if not an order of magnitude.

Now, on such concepts as honor and dignity. Now it is customary to investigate cases of insulting honor and dignity in court. For several months or even years. Long, dreary and not everyone can afford. If you make changes to the legislation ... Here, on the one hand, it is more complicated, but on the other, easier. Someone called someone offensive or obscene word. If this happened without witnesses, then an attempt to kill or damage the health should definitely qualify as an intentional aggravated crime. If, at the witnesses, this someone decided that someone had offensively offended him, then in the presence of a police officer (preferably from the press service, otherwise their ranks and salaries are high and their duties are not enough) after questioning the witnesses to a duel. Moreover, the callee may well refuse from a duel, paying a symbolic fine, say, an insulted one hundred rubles. The amount is small and use the challenge to a duel as a means of enrichment will not work. Because if there are too many calls, say, more than one per month, you can ask yourself, is it necessary for such a touchy weapon?

Something like that, in general. Or am I too radical?
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 17 October 2017 06: 24
    11
    There have already been cases of protection of honor and dignity, and most importantly, Life with the help of hunting weapons at home. That was then a question to our legislation. And there have already been cases of tragedy with the help of trauma (but obviously not the protection of life). I consider weapons (except hunting) has no place in our gaddy atmosphere on the street, and indeed in life.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 17 October 2017 06: 35
      +4
      Quote: 210ox
      I think, weapons (except for hunting) have no place in our gaddy atmosphere on the street, and indeed in life.

      Keep. Schizophrenics and psychopaths sometimes look quite adequate. When a failure occurs, it is not predictable. Recent events in America (although it is not clear to the end: is the shooter the victim himself or is he still a criminal?) Is proof of this. In hot spots per day of active hostilities there are no as many losses as in 1 hour in Las Vegas.
    2. Deck
      Deck 17 October 2017 07: 00
      +4
      It is quite enough for example hunting VPO-135 - a civilian version of the Shpagin submachine gun, the price is about 30 tr



      Few? Please Maxim machine gun, DP-27, SVT, what do you need for hunting? Tiger (SVD), Saiga (AK of all modifications and calibers). Do you wish for a pistol 9x19 or 9x18 - but as many as you want. The question is the length of the weapon and the possibility of hidden wearing.
      1. d ^ Amir
        d ^ Amir 17 October 2017 11: 32
        +7
        Well, if about VPO ... then ....

        in general, for starters, we need the Law on Self-Defense !!!!!!
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 17 October 2017 14: 34
        +2
        [quote = Deck] Quite enough, for example, a hunting VPO-135 - a civilian version of the Shpagin submachine gun, the price is about 30 tr
        Unless on chickens hunt with him.
      3. Krasnyiy komissar
        Krasnyiy komissar 18 October 2017 14: 05
        0
        And what's the point in PCA without auto fire? Heavy, weak cartridge, so-so reliability. Better to take VPO-205 or OP-SCS.
    3. Finches
      Finches 17 October 2017 07: 19
      +9
      Even laziness to write about this issue is some kind of argument! Because cool Walkers will now run and uncle who was big enough in childhood in war games and will call all opponents terpils and the like ... It seems that these poor fellows are raped and robbed eight times on the day that they urgently need to have a short barrel in their pocket ... or maybe they have low self-esteem or women do not give ... It's hard to say why they need a short barrel! laughing
      1. Winnie76
        Winnie76 17 October 2017 08: 43
        35
        Quote: Finches
        Because now the steep Walkers and the over-aged uncles and those who have not played enough in childhood in war games will run

        Yes Yes. For all the cool uncles, the cool Zyablitsov had already decided everything. We’ll shoot each other, as in America. And in general, there is no weapons culture in us, you understand. Thank you, Zyablitsov. For the fact that our rotten eyes opened on the inside and forbade weapons.

        Ps I went to work on self-esteem, and you see how poor the woman will give.
        1. Finches
          Finches 17 October 2017 08: 47
          +4
          I sincerely wish you good luck ...! laughing hi
          1. Winnie76
            Winnie76 17 October 2017 08: 57
            26
            Thank you, Zyablitsov. There is such a psychological term, the projection is called. This is when a person projects his own problems and complexes, as it were, onto others. This is me on the issue of self-esteem and women ...
            1. Finches
              Finches 17 October 2017 09: 04
              +3
              And the same applies to the short barrel ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Finches
                  Finches 17 October 2017 09: 09
                  +3
                  I wriggled ... Because with enviable regularity this topic is raised here in VO and all that I wanted to say seriously I have already said! Therefore, the joker! I, as a person who has practically worked with people from a sperm, being in team positions, is categorically against ... That's all! hi
                  1. Winnie76
                    Winnie76 17 October 2017 09: 15
                    16
                    Actually, I also do not work in an airless space. Although not in command positions. And I am categorically for. It is necessary to respect the opinion of the opponent, Field Marshal Zyablitsev. And do not talk about him (the opponent) self-esteem and about him (the opponent) women.
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 17 October 2017 09: 21
                      +5
                      I see how your colleagues on the floor who respect - respect! For example, just below the comment - “I HAVE NO RIGHTS,” but personally I did not offend anyone, just like that in general! If you want a short barrel, hold a nationwide referendum to clearly have an idea of ​​the opinion of the people! Want to stir up a civil war? Want violence and blood? Here's what you get instead of the ghostly thoughts of your own defense ... Safety with a short barrel is a very dangerous illusion!
                    2. CONTROL
                      CONTROL 17 October 2017 10: 34
                      +2
                      Quote: Winnie76
                      Field Marshal Zyablitsov.

                      why "field marshal"?
                      Generalissimo ... mus-mus -... not lower!
                    3. BecmepH
                      BecmepH 17 October 2017 11: 39
                      +3
                      Ps I went to work on self-esteem, and you see how poor the woman will give.
                      This is me on the issue of self-esteem and women ...
                      And do not talk about him (the opponent) self-esteem and about him (the opponent) women.
                      It seems that Vinnie76 has a short barrel in his pants and a problem with women, if only this catches him. I sincerely sympathize.
                      Comrade Zyablicea wrote everything correctly. And these "promoters, short-bore" from which side just did not come. Starting to read the article, I felt that there would be a catch. The beginning of the article, it seems, is against the short-barrels, but in the end it turned out (expected) -ZA. I did not expect another on the pages of VO.
                  2. Titsen
                    Titsen 17 October 2017 09: 57
                    +4
                    Quote: Finches
                    I wriggled ... Because with enviable regularity this topic is raised here in VO and all that I wanted to say seriously I have already said! Therefore, the joker! I, as a person who has practically worked with people from a sperm, being in team positions, is categorically against ... That's all! hi


                    Even a joker is necessary competently!

                    SORRY - is that or how to understand?

                    Joker....
                    1. Finches
                      Finches 17 October 2017 10: 03
                      +2
                      Sorry for not being able to satisfy your aesthetic and linguistic needs! hi
                  3. iConst
                    iConst 17 October 2017 10: 39
                    +5
                    Quote: Finches
                    categorically against ... That's all!

                    Any question should be considered from different points of view.
                    At this stage, I’m rather against .... an unprepared permission for a short-barrel population.
                    This controversy, in my opinion, from the fact that people do not consider themselves protected. More precisely, they believe (and I agree) that the police are not taking sufficient measures to prevent minor parviolence.

                    In this regard, my good friends who left for Canada in the 90s are indicative. A year ago they came to stay. And they were amazed by the factor of petty lawlessness: cars parked on lawns and then spreading dirt on asphalt, in the evening, on the way to the store, they couldn’t get through - people who want to save a couple of minutes at a traffic light are being driven in a continuous stream through the yards. Dog shit is clearly visible in the snow everywhere - a picturesque picture.
                    With this "little things" begins a great mess. And what the valiant precincts are doing is a mystery. Any small things they are not interested. They are engaged in certain global affairs that are not visible to mere mortals.

                    And there is such an elusive substance as "justice", which no one has seen, but every normal person wants.
                    Here, in particular, and from here an unconscious desire (not even to have one yourself!) Of permission for a short-barrel population.
                    I am sure - the overwhelming majority who are “for” - if permission happens - and will not think about acquiring it.
        2. CONTROL
          CONTROL 17 October 2017 10: 31
          +3
          Quote: Winnie76
          Ps I went to work on self-esteem, and you see how poor the woman will give.

          ... and what, the one with which you just - excuse me ... - got off, it’s “no longer suitable” (I’m ironic!)
          Zyablitsov! As a person who has lived life - there is such a simple observation: women physiologically more dependent on men and need them than men on women. Just like in the joke about Budyonny and Babel: "... it depends on what kind of babel!"
          1. Finches
            Finches 17 October 2017 12: 31
            +2
            Yes, it's not about that! hi
      2. your1970
        your1970 17 October 2017 12: 31
        +3
        there is one caveat - everyone unanimously forgets that owning a short barrel requires some physical preparation and a CONSTANT readiness to use it. In the absence of such readiness, they will simply take the trunk off your body. And here the question arises - how to be disabled / women / old people / children - who are the most potential victims? Well, they don’t bother in a dark alley with a healthy adult man just like that - but even the undergrowths listed above - the gopniks can.
        Z.Y. wore round-the-clock in the 1994-95th PM service (shooting was 2 times a week and a lot). It’s very (!!!!) difficult to constantly be on the alert - that you can be stabbed with a knife near a store or a pipe in the entrance, that you can’t reduce the distance with people by less than 2 meters. Even in war, waiting relaxes.
        And if there is no constant wearing and readiness to use, then there is no sense, will not save - you will not have time to apply ...
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 17 October 2017 15: 54
          +4
          Quote: your1970
          requires some physical training

          Actually, the article says this - training at least once a week.
          1. your1970
            your1970 17 October 2017 18: 13
            0
            Quote: Dart2027
            Quote: your1970
            requires some physical training
            Actually, the article says this - training at least once a week.
            -those. Weapons are offered only to strong, healthy men, who have free time? Women / old people / children / disabled people - who for some reason do not have the opportunity to train, do you need self-defense? Doesn’t it seem strange to you at least ??
            Those. self defense all - but the right to arms strictly limited circle of persons??

            Imho. If we allow it, then absolutely everyone will immediately and without any restrictions (including the availability of safes / criminal records). Yes, there will be shooting and numerous victims for the first ten years ... Then it will subside, scumbags will be shot / planted and everything will be a bunch ..

            A classic about how and why there were a lot of weapons in the United States (he has a lot about weapons in America, the first one that got offhand)
            "since he blasphemed the criminals, he should have," driving up to the station, holding the revolver on hand, next to him in the seat, and shooting first - after all, everyone could realize that they were waiting for him. "
            That's all we managed to find out, and we clearly saw that neither the conductor nor the new coachman was at all disturbed by the murder that had taken place before their eyes. They clearly did not respect the person who had the stupidity of encountering people insulted by him, not being prepared to “reinforce his judgment about them,” which in their language meant the murder of any neighbor who was not happy with this judgment. Besides that, besides contempt, a fool could inspire them, who dared to tease such desperate thugs as these criminals ... "
            “There wasn’t enough coffee for everyone. When there was just enough left to fill one tin mug, Slade, already holding the coffee pot, suddenly found that my mug was empty. He politely offered to fill it, and although I really wanted coffee, I he politely refused. Who knows, maybe he hasn’t killed anyone yet this morning and needs to be entertained. However, Slade was still politely, but resolutely insisted, saying that I spent the whole night on the road and therefore more he deserved a degree of a sip of coffee than he did - and, without listening to objections, calmly poured the remainder to the last drop in my mug. I thanked him and drank the coffee, but I didn’t feel well: what if he regrets that he gave me the coffee and decides to kill me in order to distract his thoughts from the damage? But nothing of the kind happened. When we parted with him, he still had only twenty-six dead on his account, and I left, very pleased with myself, because I managed so prudently to manage the first place at the table that I avoided the unpleasant fate of taking the twenty-seventh place in mentioned list. "
            1. Dart2027
              Dart2027 17 October 2017 18: 20
              +3
              Quote: your1970
              Those. self-defense for everyone - but the right to arms to a strictly limited circle of people

              Any idea can be brought to the point of absurdity, in fact it is often done when there is nothing to say in essence, well, like you, for example.
              In order to be able to use a weapon as a means of self-defense without shooting yourself something, you need to be able to handle it. This is a fact, and by the way a woman and a disabled person may well do it. In addition, no one ever called on to trust his children - for obvious reasons.
              1. your1970
                your1970 17 October 2017 18: 45
                0
                Quote: Dart2027
                In order to be able to use a weapon as a means of self-defense without shooting yourself something, you need to be able to handle it. This is a fact, and by the way a woman and a disabled person may well do it.
                - you walk away from Moscow 300 meters from MKAD !! Do you know a lot of shooting galleries / shooting ranges (even in millionaires)? the closest is 300 km from me ... I can see the line of disabled / old people / women at the bus stop go shoot there .....
                Or do you think that someone will immediately rush across the country to open shooting ranges in towns with a population of 50?
                Do you know the cost of equipment at least roughly? GOST number for shooting ranges? There, the round-the-clock turn should be so that the shooting gallery brings profit ...
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 17 October 2017 20: 13
                  0
                  Quote: your1970
                  Or do you think that someone will immediately rush across the country to open shooting ranges

                  In fact, if you introduce such a rule, then you accordingly need to provide everything you need.
                  If you have not noticed, then no one calls to do everything right away. Personally, I perfectly understand that this is a serious enough question, but when opponents of permission to sell weapons to the population say that it is useless without the necessary skills, then they are right - if you are allowed to have weapons at home, you need the owner to "know from which hole the bullet flies out "
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 17 October 2017 20: 32
                    0
                    Great !!! i.e. residents of 3/4 of the country the right to arms does not shine - simply because not a single shooting range in the region will ever open ....
                    Full equality !!
                    Z.Y. Residents of megacities immediately arm themselves - and everyone else is so quiet, a dolekol / picket will cost .....
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 17 October 2017 21: 17
                      0
                      Quote: your1970
                      Great!!

                      Is there an alternative? Realistic
                      1. your1970
                        your1970 18 October 2017 10: 04
                        0
                        Quote: Dart2027
                        Quote: your1970
                        Great!!

                        Is there an alternative? Realistic
                        -residents of 3/4 of the country without access to the short-barrel, within the framework of the same self-defense, upon detection of a face with weapon - immediately stick a pitchfork in his back, in spite of the possible legality of possession of weapons, in view of the possible threat to life and property .......
                        Absurdity?! YES !!! but what do you suggest is not absurd ??
      3. Doliva63
        Doliva63 17 October 2017 15: 19
        12
        To be. What other arguments do you need? laughing Cars a year kill more than 10 years in the DRA died, no one is worried? In principle, a gun can be used legally. For example, practical shooting. But such would intercede when transporting weapons for someone thread - prison. Wrong. The law must be changed. And then, why will he have the right after that, and I will not? Wrong, we are all equal. So, I need to be allowed. Logic is Iron! drinks The culture of using weapons was instilled in me in childhood, developed in the army, checked in the municipal service - why does someone stop me from realizing it in everyday life? Wrong. The state should not only intervene, but also lead the work of training (who needs), organizations (who want) like me in order to increase the level of public safety. Prosit! drinks
      4. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 17 October 2017 19: 15
        +4
        A samurai must carry his sword all his life, even if it is needed only once.
        Eastern wisdom, however, but there are cases of all kinds or you’re not a man, but there are always a lot of them (reptiles) (or very many), and if you have a trunk, then the chances are equalized.
    4. Same lech
      Same lech 17 October 2017 11: 01
      +6
      I think, weapons (except for hunting) have no place in our gaddy atmosphere on the street, and indeed in life.


      Yes yes let go scumbags then cut defenseless people on the street ...

    5. Primoos
      Primoos 17 October 2017 20: 31
      +5
      the author wants himself, beloved, a leuper. He has time three times a week to have fun in the shooting range, and whoever has a five-day working day and weekends in the garden beds draws the figs. Thank you, good man!
  2. martin-159
    martin-159 17 October 2017 06: 37
    +5
    Another pounding of water in the mortar.
  3. Basil50
    Basil50 17 October 2017 06: 47
    21
    If you believe the opponents of weapons, the question arises, and why the hell do you need the police and the army? After all, everyone around is so cute.
    Reasoning about * the right * to weapons is akin to reasoning, but in general, why defend oneself. After all, aul savages can suffer in this way, but they feel sorry for them, or thieves with robbers, and they also seem to need to live on something. And all these ... have relatives.
    Only robbed, raped and murdered people have neither rights nor even hope for revenge.
    TERPILES HAVE NO RIGHTS.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 17 October 2017 11: 07
      +4
      why the hell then do you need the police and the army? After all, everyone around is so cute.


      Good cutie ... fired at his friend ... and they gave them the right to hell with weapons ...
      1. free
        free 17 October 2017 15: 02
        +1
        very strange reaction from other employees to the incident
  4. alex-cn
    alex-cn 17 October 2017 06: 48
    20
    The author is right about one thing, but perhaps the most important thing. Until there is an adequate law on self-defense, which clearly spells out the right to use weapons (purely my opinion - it should be spelled out where it is impossible, in other cases - it is possible) to legalize the short-barrel is senseless. Now we have such laws that even traumatic to apply is almost impossible.
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 17 October 2017 10: 43
      +1
      Quote: alex-cn
      The author is right about one thing, but perhaps the most important thing. Until there is an adequate law on self-defense, which clearly spells out the right to use weapons (purely my opinion - it should be spelled out where it is impossible, in other cases - it is possible) to legalize the short-barrel is senseless. Now we have such laws that even traumatic to apply is almost impossible.

      Not enough!
      Society as a whole has undergone such significant moral and ethical perturbations over the last literally 50 years ...! That no written laws will help!
      On October 16, in St. Petersburg, in the Deputy Hall of the Tauride Palace ... the 137th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union opened.
      One of the key speakers at the opening of the Assembly was the Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church, His Holiness Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill, speaking to the participants of this representative inter-parliamentary forum with the Word, which clearly outlined the crisis of modern society, directly related to the rejection by the peoples of the world of the imposition of liberal values:
      “The last decade of the XNUMXth century and the second decade of the XNUMXst century approaching the end showed that those values ​​that were affirmed as basic, universal, as the only possible source of human happiness, could not stand the test of time. The world, alas, has not become more calm, nor more predictable, nor more stable ...
      ... Indeed, liberal globalization has done a lot to impose on the world the post-Christian, and, in fact, anti-Christian values, proclaimed "universal" ....
      “Only common values ​​based on a person’s conscience that cannot be ideologized or politicized, and capable of forming a moral consensus of mankind ... representatives of different traditions recognize this universal moral value, overcome mistrust, jointly oppose radicalism, and uphold a position on issues that have moral measurement ... "

      https://tsargrad.tv/articles/patriarh-kirill-prep
      odal-urok-parlamentarijam-mira_90764
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 October 2017 06: 51
    +3
    can issue a duel challenge

    Is the author joking or does he really believe that this can be adopted by law? If you insult the insulting person in the face for an insult, they will drag him in, and here the author has dreamed about calling for a duel. Another verbal diarrhea.
    1. Dart2027
      Dart2027 17 October 2017 15: 56
      0
      Quote: rotmistr60
      here the author dreamed about a challenge to a duel

      And this is really a bust - a duel, from no side is not self-defense.
  6. kudma
    kudma 17 October 2017 06: 57
    16
    Well, with a shooting range once a week, the author went too far and made a laugh with a duel. And so in the trailer support. In my opinion, visiting a shooting gallery with marks a couple of times a month in any free time would be enough. And of course change the law. At the initial stage, you can enter a permit for storage and use is permissible for the protection of your home and within your area. And only then, proceeding from subsequent situations, develop the legislation further.
    1. alstr
      alstr 17 October 2017 10: 19
      +4
      Add.
      Visiting the shooting gallery regularly is good, but there is also a sick leave: sick leave (those who do not know, but under the law 28 days plus preferential leave up to 45).
      There are also business trips / shifts that last for several months and there are no shooting galleries in the district from the word at all.
      And the most important thing is shooting galleries, where a simple citizen can shoot from the word completely or one or two at a large city (now. Even the guards even shoot at departmental shooting galleries).
      In addition, we need not a shooting range as such (although it is also needed), but the development of some standard situations, i.e. conditional obstacle course.

      As for the duels, I'm sorry - this story has already passed. We read Dumas.
      It will be especially fun if the injured party is a fragile girl.
      True, now you can arrange a duel paintball, but it is unlikely to succeed.

      And the law - I agree - needs to be corrected. At least for obvious situations such as theft from an apartment / house / car, etc. (i.e. premises).
    2. your1970
      your1970 17 October 2017 12: 11
      +1
      Quote: kudma
      At the initial stage, you can enter a permit for storage and use is permissible for the protection of your home and within your area.
      -And who doesn’t let you buy MP-155 (up to 10 rounds) or Saigu (up to 20 rounds) ?? In this case, you don’t even need to enter the hunting community, and you can get a license.
      1. kudma
        kudma 17 October 2017 12: 35
        +2
        And you let your wife hold a murka or saiga and you will see for yourself. YouTube is full of videos as women shoot fun.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 October 2017 13: 00
          +1
          Quote: kudma
          And you let your wife hold a murka or saiga and you will see for yourself. YouTube is full of videos as women shoot fun.

          -and you give your wife a PM (by the way, it’s also almost kilo in it) - there’s a lot of videos on YouTube men shoot a pistol, including fun
          1. kudma
            kudma 17 October 2017 13: 18
            +3
            Probably 3,5 kg and per meter long with a gun it is easier to defend than a kilogram PM. I'm not talking about power in bestowal.
            1. your1970
              your1970 17 October 2017 13: 35
              +1
              DON'T GET from the 12th gauge at such a distance is impossible, the effect will be guaranteed, but getting from the PM at a distance of even 10 meters is already more difficult (especially for a woman)
            2. Foundling
              Foundling 17 October 2017 14: 08
              +4
              As for the recoil: have you shot from PMa at least once? Do you think that a woman will hold PM on an outstretched arm, but there isn’t a saiga normally invested ????? Is this a joke stol?
              1. kudma
                kudma 18 October 2017 06: 43
                0
                Unfortunately, I didn’t have to come from the PM, but from the saiga very often I think that a gun is much more convenient for self-defense. In addition, why did you cling to the ancient PM, because if guns are allowed, shops will be littered with more modern and convenient models in a month.
                1. your1970
                  your1970 18 October 2017 10: 06
                  0
                  and have you seen many small and convenient samples of domestic weapons? Import will be many times more expensive ....
                  1. kudma
                    kudma 18 October 2017 10: 49
                    +1
                    I think our manufacturers are quickly catching up. Well, or upgrade the old many options.
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 18 October 2017 11: 19
                      0
                      A lot of options? !! ​​With us ?? Well, well, you probably got us from the USA, we can list all-all pistols / revolvers on a half-page A4 ...
                      1. Foundling
                        Foundling 18 October 2017 11: 39
                        0
                        Yes, we have problems mainly with cartridges. For example, Yarygin catches wedges precisely because of them. Chimneys are alas not uncommon on it. It will cost someone life. For self-defense, I always carry MA-136-03 with me. Very compact and convenient. The return of 7,62x39 is also practically nonexistent. If you compare with Mosinka, then no!
                      2. kudma
                        kudma 18 October 2017 12: 41
                        0
                        Well, that’s right, who will produce and upgrade them if there is no sales market.
      2. kudma
        kudma 18 October 2017 06: 53
        0
        I will add. I myself just wanted to buy a murka. I even started to make permission, somewhere the hunter’s ticket lies, but in connection with the construction of the house and the birth of my daughter I have postponed the purchase.
    3. would
      would 17 October 2017 12: 24
      +9
      At the initial stage, you can enter a permit for storage and use is permissible for the protection of your home and within your area.


      Such suggestions always amused me. Right now I can buy a 12-gauge monstrous shotgun, fenced-off versions of the AK and even some PPs, a high-precision sniper rifle with the right to transport them outside the house. According to current legislation, transportation is in a case or bag, without a cartridge in the chamber. The attached curb shop is possible; you can not put it on the fuse.

      But when it comes to some kind of 9mm short-barreled, sorry, fart, then immediately there are proposals to prohibit taking out of the house, issue only after 5 years of experience on a smooth and so on. Such proposals that are relevant except in the opposite situation, because 12 gauge is worse than 9mm pistol and it is logical to first allow the gun, and after 12 gauge. Just out of danger. But we have "our own special way" and right now before you buy teenage small things under 5.6 (TOZ-8 from Soviet school childhood) you need to take 5 years to smooth out a smooth-bore monster. And by the way, I would prefer that in my stomach I would be shot 5 times from a small gun than 1 time with a 12-caliber bullet. In the first case, they will very likely darn me and there will be more or less, in the second there will be nothing to darn.

      That's what you are guided by when making such suggestions? I've always wanted to know the answer to this question.
      1. kudma
        kudma 17 October 2017 12: 39
        0
        I just suggested at the initial stage as a test that later on on its basis I would continue to develop law and law. And I consider 12 gauge too powerful for self-defense.
        1. would
          would 17 October 2017 12: 51
          +2
          It’s a pity that you didn’t give a clear answer, no one gave me that to whom I would not ask this question. Because it is really not clear what and how to try here.

          And I consider 12 gauge too powerful for self-defense.


          From a security point of view, the sooner and more reliably an attacker ceases to pose a threat, the better, the less actions that can harm you. Therefore, the 12 gauge after falling into the torso from which the criminal very quickly throws hooves just the same just right. And legally, I would not say that this is a problem because this will be only one version of what happened to you, but with a wounded animal two.
          1. your1970
            your1970 17 October 2017 13: 05
            0
            This is precisely the problem, including - the 12-gauge buckshot will GUARANTEED kill, because it will fall everywhere. Hitting a pistol bullet (with the exception of the heart / head) is almost always treated .... Again - you have to hit, but from the 12th you can hit towards aggressor, anyway at least a couple of buckshot hooks
            1. would
              would 17 October 2017 13: 10
              +2
              This is precisely the problem including that - a 12-gauge buckshot will GUARANTEED kill,


              As I already wrote, this is not a problem, but the dignity of 12 gauges based on our own safety. After a pistol bullet hits, the offender is likely to be able to take active actions, for example, to shoot back in response if the attack is armed. But a shootout is such a thing, it can also kill you.

              And here from the 12 gauge "bang!" in the breast and with a high probability everything. An attacker, even if briefly alive, is unlikely to harm you.
              1. your1970
                your1970 17 October 2017 13: 38
                0
                Well, let’s say this - at the time in the SA we took into account that it is advisable to finish off the attacker on the sentry, so that he does not slander repeatsaid with humor ...
                I'm just on the side of the long barrel and against the short shot ...
                But with self-defense - there can be very big nuances
          2. kudma
            kudma 17 October 2017 13: 25
            +4
            From the legal point of view, that is why everyone insists first to change the law regarding the excess of necessary self-defense and the law on private property. If they work out well, then the person will not need to be turned into minced meat, but simply made wounded and call the police outfit.
            1. would
              would 17 October 2017 13: 26
              +1
              Only this wounded animal will probably be able to run, including beating you, possibly with a knife. And if the attack was armed, then it will more than be able to shoot back and even after receiving a mortal wound, also kill you.

              Therefore, from the point of view of your own security, the sooner you turn your opponent into forcemeat, the better for you. That is why police officers in the USA are specially trained to discharge the entire store into an attacker; there were too many cases when the attacker continued the attack and killed a police officer.
              1. kudma
                kudma 17 October 2017 13: 35
                0
                So you probably still shoot if the wounded animal continues to attack ?!
                1. would
                  would 17 October 2017 13: 43
                  0
                  I’ll shoot, be sure to shoot. It’s just not the fact that I’ll get there and this time I’ll disable it before it can harm me.
                2. Doliva63
                  Doliva63 17 October 2017 15: 43
                  +5
                  In such a situation, 1 shot is contraindicated in general. At least 2 in a row, half a second to assess the situation, and you can still, until certainty, so to speak. If there are several opponents, remember the skills of high-speed shooting (who was engaged) and issue a series of 5 shots at 5 targets in 4 seconds, assess the situation, bring the situation to its logical conclusion. These skills can be acquired in the nearest sports society, where there is such a sport - high-speed firing from a self-loading pistol (if there is one), and if not, take the initiative and cut loot on it! laughing
      2. Foundling
        Foundling 21 October 2017 12: 51
        +1
        So, for example, from Mosinki, a half-shell on a carcass, the effect is not less than that of the 12 caliber, only with 300 meters! I saw the sale of Barret in the caliber 50 for 2 million rubles. Includes 500 cartridge. The cost of one shot 2700rub. !!! So from it you can effectively defend yourself from a kilometer without any chance for the aggressors :-) And then the pistils with mortality 2 from 10. Rzhaka!
  7. Dimy4
    Dimy4 17 October 2017 07: 11
    +5
    In the current abyss between rich and poor, let's guess who will buy (or just legalize) this very weapon in the first place. The richest Pinocchio. And if he simply desires to shoot someone, and then say that he was threatened, our court will believe him unconditionally. He won’t even understand it.
    1. woron333444
      woron333444 17 October 2017 08: 35
      +5
      They will believe him now. Money will make him infallible and do not care about any law.
    2. would
      would 17 October 2017 09: 42
      +5
      Will buy and legalize? Those who already have money bought and legalized a long time ago, if it is a short-barrel, then it is perfectly legalized through the award. If you fail to pay in Russia, then using our legislation that recognizes foreign premiums, this can be done in Tajikistan or South Ossetia. Both countries appeared in similar cases.
    3. CONTROL
      CONTROL 17 October 2017 10: 49
      +4
      Quote: Dimy4
      In the current abyss between rich and poor, let's guess who will buy ... this is the very weapon in the first place.
      ... And if he simply desires to shoot someone, and then say that he was threatened, our court will believe him unconditionally. He won’t even understand it.

      ... And if in return he gets a bullet from a cheap - single-shot! - something ... then there will be no "our court"!
      Self-defense, panimash ...
  8. Alex66
    Alex66 17 October 2017 07: 15
    +9
    Weapons are needed primarily because people don’t feel protection from the state, they can only rely on themselves. The same gop companies in the area the cops know about them, but they can’t or do not want to do anything.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 17 October 2017 07: 21
      13
      Quote: Alex66
      the cops know about them, but they cannot or do not want to do anything

      Junk you have there cops ...
      Quote: Alex66
      in the area

      GYYYY laughing laughing laughing
      Hint: there is a CSS on the cops and the prosecutor's office ... this is so, by the way.
      And for self-defense, even real, with our dear, Law about it, you will inevitably sit down for so many years. Think about it yes
      1. lysyj bob
        lysyj bob 17 October 2017 09: 11
        +4
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        And for self-defense, even real, with our dear, Law about it, you will inevitably sit down for so many years. Think about it


        For me, an article is better than an obituary or disability
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 17 October 2017 09: 59
          +9
          Quote: lysyj bob
          better article than obituary or disability

          Better yet, don't run up laughing
          Passive safety measures have not been canceled yet.
          1. lysyj bob
            lysyj bob 17 October 2017 11: 42
            +5
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Quote: lysyj bob
            better article than obituary or disability

            Better yet, don't run up laughing
            Passive safety measures have not been canceled yet.



            Being “passive” is your right, but do not limit the rights of others
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 17 October 2017 15: 17
              +8
              Quote: lysyj bob
              Being “passive” is your right, but do not limit the rights of others

              You either did not understand, or pretended to be talented.
              Passive safety measures are, in particular:
              - street crossing only in designated places
              - lack of alcohol with strangers
              - absenteeism (unnecessarily) in the places of accumulation of "suspicious persons"
              - non-selection from the field and non-pulling into the mouth of everything that is not getting ...
              Well, and so on. In this case, your activity, within reason, no one limits No.
        2. BecmepH
          BecmepH 17 October 2017 11: 51
          +3
          Quote: lysyj bob
          Quote: Golovan Jack
          And for self-defense, even real, with our dear, Law about it, you will inevitably sit down for so many years. Think about it


          For me, an article is better than an obituary or disability

          Have you been attacked many times? I have lived for 53 years and have not been robbed, not killed. And they didn’t break into the apartment. I bought a house, the car is in the yard and I do not put on the signaling. Gates on a simple constipation without a lock. I live not in the wilderness, but in a large industrial city. And from friends I have not heard this. And how many times have they burst into your house? And how many times have you been robbed on the street?
          1. lysyj bob
            lysyj bob 18 October 2017 15: 15
            +1
            The neighbors were robbed, my friends were attacked, and no one personally touches me because they know that I HAVE. I myself am not aggressive from birth, if you do not touch me.
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 17 October 2017 11: 35
        +5
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        Junk you have there cops ...

        ... because: the district police officer is a sibling of the “chieftain” of the group ... It’s quite a respectable businessman; whose main business is illegal entrepreneurial activity and "black real estate" ... dough is unmeasured!
        Hint: there is a CSS on the cops and the prosecutor's office ... this is so, by the way.

        ... and their dad is the prosecutor ... or operas of the CSS ...
        ... mom is a judge!
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 17 October 2017 15: 22
          +7
          Quote: CONTROL
          ... because...

          I do not say why. I say that junk.

          As for the dad "from CSS," for some reason I strongly doubted that this is not the organization.

          And I already appreciated your talent for telling horror stories good
          1. CONTROL
            CONTROL 18 October 2017 08: 45
            +2
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            As for the dad "from CSS," for some reason I strongly doubted that this is not the organization.
            And I already appreciated your talent for telling horror stories good

            ...yah?
            About "dad from CSS" and "mom-judge" - from my personal life, not mine - but my mother! We thought of a dilapidated old woman to chop off an apartment ... it’s painfully good, and the place is profitable ... This "law enforcement gopot" started the process ... the businessman-gopnik of the specialization described by me began! “weighed down” by the very “relatives”!
            .... life is sometimes much more "interesting" tales!
  9. Nix1986
    Nix1986 17 October 2017 07: 23
    13
    The author correctly emphasized the legal aspect. Even now without a short barrel, half of the fatal defense cases for attackers end with a term for defenders. Let me give you an example from my life - a woman acquaintance went to the pharmacy for a child at night, three nariks pounced on her near the pharmacy, used a remote teaser, one fell and two fled. The one that fell died from a cardiac arrest. Recording from the camera near the pharmacy showed everything. There was a court, they gave a condition, extenuating circumstances in the form of a small child, positive characteristics from places of work and had never been involved before. The court found that the three nariks were not a threat to the life and health of one woman, because the video does not show that they were holding something and the woman had no injuries, which would show the need for self-defense in the absence of weapons from the attackers.
    1. Golovan Jack
      Golovan Jack 17 October 2017 07: 40
      10
      Quote: Nix1986
      in the absence of weapons from the attackers

      I don’t remember the article, but “attack by a group is equal to an attack with a weapon”, isn’t it?
      1. WUA 518
        WUA 518 17 October 2017 09: 18
        +3
        Quote: Golovan Jack
        I don’t remember the article, but “attack by a group is equal to an attack with a weapon”, isn’t it?

        It is forbidden to use firearms with firing shots at women, persons with obvious signs of disability, or minors when their age is obvious or known to a police officer, except in cases of armed resistance by these persons, an armed or group attack threatening the life and health of citizens or a police officer.
    2. kudma
      kudma 17 October 2017 07: 45
      13
      The other day, according to Vesti 24, there was a program about such cases when robbers and all kinds of people burst into houses and began to beat the owners, and when the owner killed, they certainly put him in prison. Only with the help of publicity and popular discontent did they manage to release them from prison.
      1. Nix1986
        Nix1986 17 October 2017 08: 48
        13
        It seems to me that only a transfer of the consideration of such cases to a jury may at least somehow affect the statistics of landing during self-defense, but this is now. Well, if you objectively reason, then you can deprive a person of the right to self-defense, if only the state is committed to absolutely and 100% protect the person, which we do not observe. Well, as a last word on this topic, I want to leave the words of one movie hero "Take the pistols from their legal owners, and the criminals will remain the only people with pistols."
    3. CONTROL
      CONTROL 17 October 2017 12: 39
      +1
      Quote: Nix1986
      used a remote teaser

      ... probably a taser; a teaser is something about bitcoins ...
  10. Nemesis
    Nemesis 17 October 2017 08: 02
    11
    Personally, my opinion: I am for military civilian weapons for the population, BUT ... In my understanding, weapons should be divided into civilian and military (military only for the army and police). It is quite obvious that the PM pistol, which was also adopted by the USSR for the sake of saving gunpowder (in cartridges 9 by 18 PM, it is much less than in cartridges 7,62 by 25 TT) is clearly weak for the army, and for the police too, but for civil self-defense just right. The PM pistol is quite simple, and its cartridge does not penetrate army bulletproof vests, let alone Izh-71 pistols that do not pierce bulletproof vests at all, even the most primitive ones. I am opposed to the fact that in Russia, as a civilian weapon, barrels with powerful cartridges were sold, such as 9 for 19,9 for 21, 9 for 23,7,62 for 25 and the like .... I am in favor of The Russian Federation abolished all limits of self-defense. Those who committed the attack should be held responsible for all the consequences. The right to buy pistols in the Russian Federation should be obtained only by those who have had at least 5 years of possession of weapons, and in the Russian Federation it is time to close all these anonymous medical institutions for the treatment of psychos, drug addicts and alcoholics, and it’s high time to put all this public without fail for state registration and of course not to give her anything but a shovel.
    1. BecmepH
      BecmepH 17 October 2017 12: 00
      +4
      The right to purchase pistols in the Russian Federation should be obtained only by those who have at least 5 years of experience in possession of weapons
      Mmm ... how can I earn experience to buy this pestle? With wood like five years? Or maybe with water? Or can you hold your fingers in your pocket with a gun? Let everyone think that I have a real gun in my pocket.
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 17 October 2017 12: 11
        +3
        As well as a hunter who wants to buy a rifled carbine. Walk 5 years with a smoothbore.
        1. BecmepH
          BecmepH 17 October 2017 14: 30
          +3
          Quote: Nemesis
          As well as a hunter who wants to buy a rifled carbine. Walk 5 years with a smoothbore.

          And if I’m not a hunter and don’t want to buy a rifled carbine and don’t want to go smooth-bore for 5 years, but want a pestle? AND? How to be that? Remains fingers gun and pocket?
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 17 October 2017 15: 28
            +1
            Sorry, but giving out rifles to people who did not own a smoothbore, in my opinion, is not too prudent and risky. I believe that even traumatism should be issued only after at least a year of owning a gas pistol, or there are too many who shoot anywhere, with or without it.
    2. your1970
      your1970 17 October 2017 12: 16
      +2
      Quote: Nemesis
      I am for the abolition of all limits of self-defense in the Russian Federation. Those who attacked should be held responsible for all the consequences.
      - Yes, I'll be the first then to go to killers !!! And already one-legged / one-armed / weak women will stand in line !!!
      There is a victim ordered on the street-clap her and "He attacked me !! raped! Purse taken away !! asked a cigarette !! etc." ... Although on the other hand the prices will drop, there will be many who wish .... I won’t go to killers ...
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 17 October 2017 12: 19
        +6
        Not a single normal killer will kill anyone with a pistol registered in his name in the police, the cartridges and bullets of which are in the police bulletproof library ...
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 October 2017 13: 09
          +2
          Quote: Nemesis
          Not a single normal killer will kill anyone with a pistol registered in his name in the police, the cartridges and bullets of which are in the police bulletproof library ...
          - I will repeat for you personally:HE FOR ME (one-legged / one-armed / weak woman) FALLED !!! I defended myself !!! I have a legal weapon, for self defense !!! Yes, I had nothing to do there, but I just walked at three in the morning in the rain near his house and so for six months in a row ... "- will they prove it later intentl - oh, sportloto ...
          1. Nemesis
            Nemesis 17 October 2017 15: 33
            +5
            You won’t believe it, but even at night and in the rain, someone will still see you somehow. A grandmother who does not sleep at night and is bored, who stares out the window for days, like on a TV. A video camera, some kind of organization, or a private one, a camera from an intercom, street cameras that are not uncommon right now. It's just a person walking from his mistress, or returning from a business trip .... Somewhere you will definitely light up ... Well, if you are so invulnerable ninja, what do you think of yourself, then you can now go to the killers, with one ax
            1. your1970
              your1970 17 October 2017 18: 22
              +1
              Quote: Nemesis
              You won’t believe it, but even at night and in the rain, someone will still see you somehow. A grandmother who does not sleep at night and is bored, who stares out the window for days, like on a TV. A video camera, some kind of organization, or a private one, a camera from an intercom, street cameras that are not uncommon right now. It's just a person walking from his mistress, or returning from a business trip .... Somewhere you will definitely light up ... Well, if you are so invulnerable ninja, what do you think of yourself, then you can now go to the killers, with one ax

              - in our city there are 20 people - there is not a single video camera, grandmothers have not looked out of the windows for a long time - televisions ... There may be mistresses recourse .. Does contract murder help a lot now to investigate all this?

              "Well, if you are such an invulnerable ninja as you think you are, then you can now go to killers, with one ax"
              You the difference understand ??? Once again - now taking an ax and chopping a victim over the head 100% killer intent on killing, after the permission of the short barrel - I INTENT I take it out of action for murder, and that's it - there is no article for the murder (there is no intent).
              1. Nemesis
                Nemesis 18 October 2017 04: 15
                +2
                I don’t agree. You can kill anyone with an ax even today, and tell the police that you were coming from the store, and you just bought the ax and brought it home, or went for firewood ... Allegedly, you were attacked and you were defending yourself ...
    3. CONTROL
      CONTROL 17 October 2017 12: 23
      +2
      Quote: Nemesis
      to close all these anonymous medical institutions for the treatment of psychos, drug addicts and alcoholics, and all this public, without fail, should be put on the state register for a long time and, of course, not give her anything but a shovel.

      ... and there will be many shovels!
      Better scoop ... scoop so ... plastic!
      1. Nemesis
        Nemesis 17 October 2017 12: 26
        +2
        You can give a shovel, in a labor camp and under the supervision of the police, where all these drug addicts and the like should be sent ... In China, they are shot at all. They don’t want to be treated, forcibly treat and the best way (stick and whip)
  11. erased
    erased 17 October 2017 08: 07
    +8
    I will not comment on the content of the article, everything is piled up all at once, I will say something else. Concern Kalashnikov at the exhibitions Forum Army-2017 and Hunting and Arms 2017 has already presented the option of a short-barreled weapon chambered for 9x18 civilian sample! This gun is referred to as MP-443. Not to be confused with the early name of the Viking pistol.

    Perhaps the Concern knows something? For example, that a bill to amend the Weapons Act is being prepared for submission to the State Duma? It is good to.
    1. kudma
      kudma 17 October 2017 08: 40
      +4
      I would have bought one myself.
    2. Engineer
      Engineer 17 October 2017 08: 52
      +2
      This will never happen, and the gun is being prepared for foreign markets, where the Kalashnikov concern is known and widely represented
      1. WUA 518
        WUA 518 17 October 2017 09: 23
        +1
        Quote: Engineer
        the gun is being prepared for foreign markets, g

        There the market has been divided for a long time, and it’s unrealistic to get in there with a short barrel even under the Kalashnikov brand!
    3. WUA 518
      WUA 518 17 October 2017 09: 12
      +1
      Quote: erased
      This gun is referred to as MP-443.

      I didn’t understand something. MP-443 is the Rook “Rook”, MP-446 is the “Viking” at the base of the RJ.
      In piled up!
      1. erased
        erased 17 October 2017 09: 24
        +2
        I’ll clarify again - this is another trunk. Internal filling as in PM. The fuse is similar to the PSM fuse. Shop for six rounds. It lies well in the hand, but the little finger sags in the air. Maybe they will make a plastic emphasis for the store under it.
        And according to the comment of a certain Engineer.
        This will never happen
        Pan Prophet, if you are not a State Duma detop and lawmaker, then leave your opinion to yourself. We will find out what will happen and what will not.
    4. would
      would 17 October 2017 09: 59
      0
      And why should they just "know something", and not just imagine another gun designed for sports and / or official use? Moreover, as rightly noted, such pistols can ride around exhibitions for ten years and remain exclusively an exhibition model.
    5. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
      Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 17 October 2017 21: 57
      +1
      Externally, the gun is not bad, but I would prefer a reliable and proven PM, especially since we know it well “in person” and there are no questions when presented. And this one can simply be mistaken for a toy and the reaction can be unpredictable.
  12. Engineer
    Engineer 17 October 2017 08: 50
    +3
    as I noticed, the dispute between the supporters and opponents of this action in the vast majority of cases is slipping into a transition to personalities

    Because once again I will throw on the fan laughing
  13. CooL_SnipeR
    CooL_SnipeR 17 October 2017 08: 55
    0
    The dog is dead, and she is still being kicked. Not tired?
  14. CooL_SnipeR
    CooL_SnipeR 17 October 2017 09: 01
    +1
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Quote: Nix1986
    in the absence of weapons from the attackers

    I don’t remember the article, but “attack by a group is equal to an attack with a weapon”, isn’t it?

    Right. If a kid is clinging to you for 16 years - you can’t touch ... but when 2nd ... "Guys! How I missed you" laughing
    1. Dimy4
      Dimy4 17 October 2017 10: 01
      +1
      Guys! How I missed you

      Like - "Hey guys, cling to me too, then I can shoot you and I won’t have anything"
      1. CooL_SnipeR
        CooL_SnipeR 17 October 2017 12: 44
        0
        I’m talking about this. Our people do not have a mentality of using weapons at all times ... but after the war and the devastation, a lot of the contingent grew ... which now can be quite intelligent. Everyone wants a pistol, it's like a toy .... but few can take responsibility for it. And few people can shoot ... well, except for fools and those who are without brakes
  15. sania5791
    sania5791 17 October 2017 09: 43
    +3
    As it comes to business, so where everyone who yells about the laws, do not meddle and do not bother to defend yourself, at least with a sapper blade or an ax, who needs me except for himself.
    A maniac can take a knife or get behind the wheel, or just splash gas and set fire, well, and then they will appear later. (Well, basically like that)
  16. leshii99
    leshii99 17 October 2017 09: 56
    +1
    I agree to all 100%. Korotkostvol not allowed. because we do not believe ourselves, not to mention leadership.
    The bosses judge everyone by themselves and are probably afraid that a subordinate will come to him.
  17. leshii99
    leshii99 17 October 2017 10: 01
    +1
    I agree to all 100%. But wearing a short barrel will be allowed when we trust ourselves. Especially the bosses who judge by themselves all the others. They are afraid that when a subordinate comes to them with a "stupid" question he will shoot him))).
    It’s not a weapon that kills, but a man! Just how to get into the head of a person ?!
  18. novel66
    novel66 17 October 2017 10: 01
    +4
    fade leaf, summer passes,
    hoarfrost silver
    Junker Schmidt from a pistol
    wants to shoot herself ....
  19. RL
    RL 17 October 2017 10: 03
    +5
    My rection is not some komenty.
    In Russia there is no culture of handling weapons? Before the victory of the Bolsheviks was. Until 1917, there was free sale of weapons to civilians. At least read Chekhov. And V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin, in his exile in Shushensky, was hunting with a gun. And Lenin was the enemy of the "bloody" tsarist regime!
    Two guys attack the "old man"? We had a similar case. Attacked. They did not think that the old man would have a short barrel. The one of the guys who survived is now serving, and the "old man" is free.
    In a state where it is allowed to have and carry with us, we, not a naveid, have a short barrel, there are fewer attacks than where it is forbidden.
    The difference between traumatism and combat - you grab traumatism through stupidity due to all kinds of nonsense, and fighting, if you're a human being, it’s better to leave and calm down than because of the parking space
    1. your1970
      your1970 17 October 2017 12: 20
      0
      Quote: RL
      In a state where it is allowed to have and carry with us, we, not a naveid, have a short barrel, there are fewer attacks than where it is forbidden.
      -Only there are cranks after the shooting of which 59 killed and 519 injured ....
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 17 October 2017 16: 04
        +1
        Quote: your1970
        after the shooting of which 59 killed and 519 injured

        If it is he who shot. And then the fact of the arsenal in the room is perplexing, and the suspect is dead.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 October 2017 18: 26
          0
          But Breivik didn’t shoot himself? And it’s not even the USA ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 17 October 2017 18: 44
            +2
            Quote: your1970
            But Breivik didn’t shoot himself? And it’s not even the USA ...

            Breivik added economic motives (he owed the bank about $ 50 thousand) to political ones and went to shoot. Now he sits in a three-room hut with the Internet and does not blow into the mustache. I’m also going to write memoirs, since there is experience. And then why did he start firing? Though I left a note. wink
            1. your1970
              your1970 17 October 2017 19: 00
              0
              for some reason, the feeling that the victims of these two thugs - on the drum their problems with loans and brains
              "None have returned from the cemetery" © my grandmother said so
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 17 October 2017 19: 05
                +2
                Quote: your1970
                to the victims of these two thugs - on the drum their problems with loans and brains

                To the victims - yes. But it’s worth living to think about why this happens.
          2. Dart2027
            Dart2027 17 October 2017 20: 17
            0
            Quote: your1970
            and Breivik

            Itself. And pay attention - he is alive, was arrested and no one has any questions. But in the USA it somehow smacks of September 11th.
    2. raw174
      raw174 17 October 2017 12: 28
      +4
      Quote: RL
      In Russia there is no culture of handling weapons?

      Yes, there is no culture.
      Quote: RL
      At least read Chekhov. And V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin, in his exile in Shushensky, was hunting with a gun.

      I now have Saigu-12, a hunter, but there are not many hunters, mass armament (and this will shorten the barrel) will cause a lot of problems, from gunshots to the mass of domestic killings using a firearm.
      Quote: RL
      Two guys attack the "old man"?

      Yes, but like this: I’m walking along a deserted street in the evening, I got stuck by a drunken man and doesn’t give me a passage, I give and leave him in the mouth, and he takes out a legal trunk and shoots him in the back ... he can be planted, but to me what’s of this? (the story is fictional). These are all special cases, you can fend off endlessly ...
      Quote: RL
      In a state where it is allowed to have and carry with us, we, not a naveid, have a short barrel, there are fewer attacks than where it is forbidden.

      Not correct, the mentality is different. We need an example of one people BEFORE and AFTER.
      Quote: RL
      The difference between traumatism and combat - you grab traumatism through stupidity due to all kinds of nonsense, and fighting, if you're a human being, it’s better to leave and calm down than because of the parking space

      but no difference! Anyone who suffers an injury will grab a gunshot earlier, because this is an ARGUMENT more weighty! The psychology is such that an armed person will go to a conflict faster and more willingly, because he feels the ARGUMENT in his pocket, will be more aggressive and decisive.
      1. would
        would 17 October 2017 13: 29
        +8
        I now have Saigu-12, a hunter, but there are not many hunters, mass armament (and this will shorten the barrel) will cause a lot of problems, from gunshots to the mass of domestic killings using a firearm.


        But in reality, suicides commit suicide, not because of the tool, but because of the reason that led them to this. Therefore, it makes no difference whether a suicide kills herself with paracetamol, a loop, or something else publicly available or from a weapon. A suicide, with the exception of the theoretically possible rare case of insanity on a particular method of suicide, will still kill himself.

        The same can be said about domestic killings that are committed mainly with the help of improvised equipment. As far as I have heard, as a rule, kitchen knives of dubious quality. As a rule, during a boom of dubious members of our society.


        Not correct, the mentality is different. We need an example of one people BEFORE and AFTER.


        Estonia, Georgia, Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia, Czech Republic. Of particular interest is the city of Narva where 98% are Russians and something mass slaughter after resolution did not happen.

        but no difference! Anyone who suffers an injury will grab a gunshot earlier, because this is an ARGUMENT more weighty! The psychology is such that an armed person will go to a conflict faster and more willingly, because he feels the ARGUMENT in his pocket, will be more aggressive and decisive.


        The difference is just huge. It so happened that the injury is regarded as a long fist, as something that cannot be killed, as an analogue of a blow to the face with a fist, as something frivolous. And there are real reasons for this inherent in the criminally low power of resolved injuries. Therefore, they are so often used and not on business, a person simply does not think that rubber can be inflicted on at least some serious damage. And usually the way it is.

        But the firearm is another matter and everyone who has brains, everyone who picks up military weapons already understands that after a shot from him there will be consequences. This is not a fist, this is not a bruise, this is a gunshot wound. And that is why the already allowed rifled so rarely glows in the chronicles. Well, still untracking rubber boots contributes.

        As for the latter, I will say this. If a person is inadequately aggressive initially, then he will probably become more aggressive after having the appropriate tool. If a person has "everything at home", then the tool only spurs to defend itself, and not only in the case when it is needed. When, for example, he sees that someone was attacked, he will know that he will not have to go with his fists one against three, he has a gun that helps a lot in this matter.
        1. raw174
          raw174 17 October 2017 13: 50
          +2
          Maybe you are right. In any case, you won’t know until you try ... Personally, I am afraid of the circulation of weapons (specifically, the short-barrel) among the population ...
      2. Dart2027
        Dart2027 17 October 2017 16: 07
        +2
        Quote: raw174
        The psychology is such that an armed man will go to a conflict faster and more willingly, because he feels the ARGUMENT in his pocket

        Hardly. The population is full of hunting weapons, thumps on the hunts be healthy, but nothing, thank God, is not heard.
        1. raw174
          raw174 18 October 2017 07: 04
          +2
          Quote: Dart2027
          thrive on the hunt, be healthy, but nothing of this, thank God, is not heard.

          Yes, there are cases ... I do not drink often on the hunt (at least I don’t hunt with alcohol), and if they drink (opening the season), then people have their own, alone themes, friends, rarely scandals.
  20. The comment was deleted.
    1. raw174
      raw174 17 October 2017 12: 12
      +2
      Quote: CONTROL
      To the question of "self-defense without weapons" ... and generally about self-defense:
      They planted a man - a gardener ... They planted him for "intentional infliction ... resulting in the death of one or more persons."

      This bike is about a hundred years old! I have never seen a link to a specific case (and they are all in the public domain).
      We have a case in the Krasnoarmeysky district when a man decided four out of five offenders from a hunting rifle. Probably heard ... Justified completely, although for some time understood. This is a fair decision, but wearing a short barrel would be allowed, one of the five he would have been ...
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL 17 October 2017 12: 30
        +1
        Quote: raw174
        This bike is about a hundred years old! I have never seen a link to a specific case (and they are all in the public domain) ..

        it wasn’t in our garden partnership - in the neighboring one!
        (they recently made repairs - sorted out junk, to eject; among the old ones - "pages of history yellowed from dirt" (according to Zoshchenko ...) - newspapers, well! - I got this note, I remembered it, and the newspaper was still Soviet, "pre-perestroika ... Factory!)
        1. raw174
          raw174 17 October 2017 12: 36
          +3
          Quote: CONTROL
          it wasn’t in our garden partnership - in the neighboring one!

          I heard about such things with traps, poisons, explosive packets, streamers, etc. It’s like any student, at the next faculty there was a student GolovachLena ...
          The essence of the charge is that the owner begins to defend his property before encroaching on him, i.e. preparing to kill another innocent (or guilty of trifles, penetration into the yard, which can be called a delinquency). those. ACKNOWLEDGES AND PREPARED FOR KILLING an innocent.
          1. your1970
            your1970 17 October 2017 13: 14
            +1
            Quote: raw174
            Quote: CONTROL
            it wasn’t in our garden partnership - in the neighboring one!

            I heard about such things with traps, poisons, explosive packets, streamers, etc. It’s like any student, at the next faculty there was a student GolovachLena ...
            The essence of the charge is that the owner begins to defend his property before encroaching on him, i.e. preparing to kill another innocent (or guilty of trifles, penetration into the yard, which can be called a delinquency). those. ACKNOWLEDGES AND PREPARED FOR KILLING an innocent.
            - in short he has INTENT
          2. faiver
            faiver 17 October 2017 14: 48
            +1
            those. how is it "innocent"? very funny...
            1. raw174
              raw174 18 October 2017 06: 59
              +3
              Quote: faiver
              those. how is it "innocent"? very funny.

              So, innocent. The man has not stolen anything yet (he has not injured), but he has already been killed (crippled), and is the damage from defense and the damage from the criminal proportional? Not.
              The defender has the intention of killing an innocent person, because the offender himself.
              I say this from the point of view of the law, and my personal opinion is MY HOUSE - MY FORTRESS, and I agree with you, but the law is the law.
  21. raw174
    raw174 17 October 2017 10: 39
    +2
    My opinion on the article:
    1. "In addition, it is mandatory to visit a shooting gallery or training ground at least once a week."
  22. RL
    RL 17 October 2017 11: 17
    +2
    And what side is the “visit to the shooting range” to self-defense in quick contact? Do not prepare for a duel! Usually self-defense - 0,2m - 4m. There you can do without a shooting gallery. And if further, then this is no longer self-defense, these are other formulations and the difference between “running away or running and than armed”, and a pistol or revolver in hand can be used as brass knuckles.
    1. raw174
      raw174 17 October 2017 12: 39
      +4
      Quote: RL
      And what side is the “visit to the shooting range” to self-defense in quick contact? Do not prepare for a duel!

      It is about a culture of conversion. You can’t own and not shoot ... Without the "combat" practice, there is no proper handling of the barrel.
  23. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 17 October 2017 12: 01
    +1
    Pancake ! Well, the "frames" of the category "though && s in the eyes are not translated in any way, but they, all the same, God's dew"! No matter how much you give arguments against the "short-barreled"; no matter how many "resonant shootings" occur in Russia and around the world, they still moan: I want a pistol! Well, give me a squeak! ..... And the "arguments" put forward ... poor "in nature"! The "correct" laws are trying to come up with to cover the gaps in their "arguments"! Yes, folk wisdom has long stated that "the written nature of Russian laws" is compensated by "..... the" non-obligation "of their execution (or execution in a" perverted "form)! Or, at least, take the" first post-Soviet "means" self-defense "-" gas cartridges "! Immediately they began to be used as a means of attack! I would not be surprised if statistics indicate that the number of attacks with gas canisters exceeds the number of self-defense! Unfortunately, such statistics (if any ...) in not wide access .... as well as the number of those killed, crippled by "trauma" inadequate! And there are laws regulating the procedure for the use of "trauma", and the concept: "only for self-defense" - there is ... but only carries "trauma", roll knows who and apply it roll knows how!
    1. michell
      michell 17 October 2017 15: 43
      +7
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Pancake ! Well, the "frames" of the category "though && s in the eyes are not translated in any way, but they, all the same, God's dew"!

      That's it, the same thoughts - no matter how much you argue for the possession of short-barreled rifled weapons - the opponents of this do not see or hear: "LOW !!!" is the only argument.
      no matter how many “resonant executions” take place in Russia and in this world

      How many? Where? Under what circumstances?
      1. Firstly - how many mass executions came from SHORT-TERM weapons? And the long-barreled one is also resolved here, in connection with this (non-rhetorical) question - how many mass executions took place in Russia over the past year (two, three) from legally acquired weapons?
      Very desirable - as a percentage of the number of weapons stored in the population.
      2. Breivik - already noted in the comments to another article that the shooting of Breivik became possible precisely because of the lack of weapons on anyone on the island. If the inhabitants of the camp had weapons, it would be unlikely that the death toll would reach 70 people.
      Or, at least, take the "first post-Soviet" means of "self-defense" - "gas sprays"! Immediately they began to be used as a means of attack!

      Can you indicate a method (method) of forensic identification of the owner of the gas cylinder after the attack? And for rifled weapons, techniques over a hundred years have been applied and improved with the development of equipment and technologies.
      as well as the number of those killed, mutilated by "trauma" inadequate! And there are laws governing the application of "trauma", and the concept: "only for self-defense" - is ... yes, it only drags "injuries", the bank knows who "and apply it" the bank knows how "!

      About injuries is also spoken-negotiated - these ersatz-pistols must be strictly prohibited, the trunks that owners have to withdraw. There are two reasons:
      1. Psychological: the injury certificate says: "weapons of limited destruction", in connection with which the owner treats him almost like a toy, without perceiving it as a full-fledged weapon;
      2. Forensic: the injuries are not shot, there are no cartridges in the police bulletproof magazines, the injuries have rubber bullets, and therefore the injuries are not forensically identifiable, which makes it possible for thugs to safely use them when making attacks. With rifled weapons, this does not work - the gun was shot, samples of bullets and cartridges are stored in bulletproof magazines, and using it when committing a deliberate crime is almost guaranteed to lead the shooter to the dock. And about
      ,, roll knows who "and apply it" roll knows how "
      - 98% of crimes with bodily harm are committed with ordinary kitchen knives - so why don’t you come up with the initiative to ban them? It’s not the weapon that kills - the person kills, and here the role of the short-barreled weapon is to equalize the chances of the attacker and the one who is being attacked ...
      1. your1970
        your1970 17 October 2017 18: 32
        0
        "And the long-barreled one is also resolved with us, in connection with this (non-rhetorical) question - how many mass executions took place in Russia in the last year (two, three) from legally acquired weapons?" - I didn’t shoot rhetorically in Tver. The slogan about the fact that if they had a weapon would have fought back would not work. He could also have a weapon and he could shoot them right there, but not run after a gun ... .
        1. Viktor.N.Aleksandrov.
          Viktor.N.Aleksandrov. 17 October 2017 22: 12
          +2
          The case is isolated and as a percentage of killings in general in Russia and the number of citizens armed with a long barrels. Just the proximity to Moscow and the number of killed caused a public outcry, promoted by the media. Moreover, in an accident in Russia on the same day, surely no less than people died.
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 19 October 2017 10: 27
        +1
        So much nonsense is written !!! But I won’t answer all this crap ... it’s pointless to explain this to the inadequate. I can refute every point, but I don’t want to waste time! Articles on the topic: “Give us pistols” - unfortunately, often appear .... each time I argued “against”, I tried to convincingly argue them, and my other supporters did the same ... (so do not trend that there are no well-reasoned arguments against weapons ...), but the "zombie gunsmiths" do not want to comprehend them; therefore, I see no reason to answer you "point-by-point" - a waste of time!
  24. kig
    kig 17 October 2017 12: 02
    +1
    For some reason, this possibility is not being considered: the question of “smoking” is immediately reinforced by the naked barrel. This type of hint, polite. The interrogated crawls into his pocket for a pack of cigarettes, and receives a bullet, just in case. Or, out in the capital of our country, motorists quite often shoot at each other or at pedestrians from injuries. And they will be out of combat.
  25. raw174
    raw174 17 October 2017 12: 07
    +3
    My opinion on the article:
    1. "In addition, it is mandatory to visit a shooting gallery or training ground at least once a week."
    Shooting range 400 km from me. how to be
    2. "The smart and sane will go away, but the fools ... There they are dear."
    And if they depart, but they are shot? How to be, who will prove?
    3. "So any, I emphasize, any attempt on someone else’s property, regardless of cost, a person should have the right to suppress, including using weapons."
    According to your version, it is possible to justify the murder of a kid who is rubbing apples from your garden ...
    4. "after interviewing witnesses, he can challenge a duel."
    Well done here! Humor must be, otherwise longing!
    On this topic. Weapons are now quite affordable, including rifled, but with regards to the short barrels, I am strongly against it! I have owned weapons for a long time and I know a lot of examples, the carelessness of handling it, especially among beginners. Well, we don’t have a culture of handling weapons, NO !!! If you ligalize, then the first trunks will appear in the pockets of the punks and it will use it for "self-defense" from a violinist with an instrument ...
    1. your1970
      your1970 17 October 2017 13: 22
      0
      Quote: raw174
      Well, we don’t have a culture of handling weapons, NO !!!
      - even more fun - in the guards they often shoot when unloading / loading weapons. This suggests that even when a person REGULAR SHOOTS and wears- anyway, there are jambs ..
      The platoon commander checks the weapons in the weapons room after firing from the PMA - shoots, the bullet ricochets off TWO (!!)of safes, breaks through the door of the arms (iron-butted with wood (1992)), breaks through the door of the narkar, flies on the head of a soaking mark (would have sat - killed), breaks the Dolphin block in the rack and only after that calms down .. I saw my eyes platoon at this moment ...
      1. raw174
        raw174 17 October 2017 13: 33
        +3
        Quote: your1970
        Anyway, there are jambs ..

        Of course there are, but mass armament will lead to shoals multiplied by unprofessionalism and hot temper ...
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 October 2017 13: 45
          +1
          and I'm talking about the same thing, professionals squint, and they offer everyone (including the weak / women / old people) good drinks drinks
  26. baltic 86-89
    baltic 86-89 17 October 2017 12: 36
    10
    Do I need or do not need a short barrel? Let me give you an example. The older son serves as a police detective for the UGRO. He went through an emergency in a separate Marine Corps. He was physically strong, not out of a dozen. In the evening he returned from a supermarket in a new car and stopped at the side of the road before entering the city I went to the boarding gate. I turned back, and near the car there is 5 BMW without license plates and two pretzels in the car, and one pulls the handle of the driver’s door of the son’s car. The question: “What is needed?”, an explanation in jargon that: “You damn it .., he cut us off and now we have to answer for that. And I would have definitely laid it, but two more appeared. And here Grand Power 10x28 just helped. Nine on the target, including the rear window of BMW. As a result, they crawled into the car and screamed a lot, the driver was lucky: his son has a broken lip and an eyebrow, and the brothers have more complicated matters. And now the question is, what would happen if there weren’t Grand Power? You, Mr. Zyablintsev, probably just didn’t get into such situations. And you wouldn’t write any liberal nonsense here ! I also have a short-barreled Groza 4C and a smooth-bore Saiga 12C and I have owned them for a long time. And I know very well when and under what circumstances I can use them. And my morality is extremely simple: my house is my fortress and the life and health of my relatives for I am more important than all your liberal reasoning and fears.
    1. your1970
      your1970 17 October 2017 13: 32
      +1
      And now the opposite situation: a small sloop / woman near an expensive car changes the wheel at night. Brothers stop, it’s going to boil up! He / she shoots them all. It seems great.
      But can you exclude the option of a setup? They lured him into a fake - they shot him - they took the car (5 BMW also costs money) - they didn’t grow together / caught me - "OH !! I defended myself !!!!!
      ZY, and in your case it would be even more fun (if they had a trunk, and they would have had them with the permission of a short barrel !!!) - "Damned police arbitrariness! Lawlessness! Stopped to ask the way - and he to shoot at us started for no reason !! I had to shoot back .... "
      1. Varyag71
        Varyag71 17 October 2017 15: 38
        +3
        I wrote some crap
      2. baltic 86-89
        baltic 86-89 18 October 2017 12: 30
        0
        Well, yes, ask for directions, so that an eyebrow and a lip are broken! Plus a damaged new car! Dreamer, however, dear!
  27. Yutas
    Yutas 17 October 2017 13: 03
    +1
    According to the rules for obtaining a license, classes in the shooting range - almost the same thing I proposed and voiced more than once during the discussion of such topics. Owning a weapon does not give an advantage - you must be able to use it and be ready to use it.
    About dueling - well, this is superfluous and unrealistic, as it seems to me. Although, it’s not without some sense - many would establish a connection between the brain and language, which is currently absent.
    But the first thing - yes, to make changes in self-defense (and there can be no limits to it). And only after 2-3 years to introduce permits for the short barrel.
  28. Dimy4
    Dimy4 17 October 2017 13: 34
    0
    Dueling must be allowed. Only not with a firearm, but on swords (sabers). And it is imperative that when witnesses of the enemy call the phrase "Sir, I challenge you to a duel, my sword is longer than yours!" lol
  29. win9090
    win9090 17 October 2017 13: 44
    +1
    No one in Russia voluntarily legalizes normal short-barrels, because an armed citizen can ask questions and the siloviki suddenly become completely useless ....
  30. your1970
    your1970 17 October 2017 13: 49
    0
    Quote: win9090
    No one in Russia voluntarily legalizes normal short-barrels, because an armed citizen can ask questions and the siloviki suddenly become completely useless ....
    "Who can an armed citizen ask a question? To the security forces? Look at how they shoot the unarmed in the United States, I am silent about the armed .. Such an inquiring citizen says a bullet between his eyes from the security forces once for the attack and that’s all, the questions will end for him ..."
  31. Cananecat
    Cananecat 17 October 2017 13: 57
    +1
    Our legislation in itself is not ready for the distribution of short-barrels in the civilian environment, and not that there is no sensible Weapons Act.
    When America is cited as an example, they forget how much time carrying and storage is already allowed there ... i.e. in fact, from the moment the continent began to be developed, when the availability of weapons made it somewhat easier to survive at least until the morning ... where possession and handling of weapons, as well as possible consequences, are written in the literal sense of blood.
  32. Colonel
    Colonel 17 October 2017 14: 07
    +1
    based on the provisions of the law, and not on the basis of justice and honesty.

    Well said.
  33. Doliva63
    Doliva63 17 October 2017 15: 01
    +7
    Once a week, you get tired of going to the shooting range if, for example, the work involves traveling and business trips (where weapons can be very handy). We need an annual shot. And there you can at least once a week, at least once every half a year. And about dueling - funny. And with the rest, in general, I agree.
  34. algonquin
    algonquin 17 October 2017 15: 31
    +2
    Is it weak to just give in the forehead?
    And do not rattle under the article intentional murder?
    By the way, Drachev talked / talked / hugged / quarreled and reconciled with Anar A. for 3 days. Then they 2 times "honestly fought, one on one," in the traditions of the Russians, on fists
    In the last video, both were DIVIDED BELT, just like in MMA.
    That's just powerlifting against MMA is not very competent. with a difference in weight and height.
    It’s just that the MMA fighter “rushed to finish off the machine”, which is welcomed in the octagon, but did not calculate that it is asphalt, not canvas and there are no doctors
    And these are just bare hands like weapons.
    1. The first excuse of "legalizers" is that they kill more with a knife.
    The answer is that weapons will be allowed, 2/3 of the domestic use of a knife in men is retrained as a firearm. The remaining 1/3 are aunts avenging roommates
    2. People cannot adequately reassure / react to brawlers-brawlers in public transport WITHOUT WEAPONS, and with weapons the level of inadequacy will be even higher.
    One - it seemed that something flashed, do not care that he had minus 7, nervous work, his wife and lover, and he clearly did not train for accuracy 2-3 times a week. Although according to the book “Know what you own” even trained policemen from 20 meters can shoot a clip and not get caught, you see nerves or people distracted, interfered
    3. The final episode of King's film adaptation of “The Darkness”, it seemed to the peasant he shot his wife and son, and military reinforcements creep out of the fog (Mgla), the peasant can only shoot himself.
    4. Soon, inflation will come, or someone will go bankrupt, and how during the Great Depression instead of gas they will shoot in rented rooms, as one man has already done (he shot his family - his wife and 2 or 3 children) and himself ...
    5. Well, they will hit you on the back of the head - you won’t get the barrel, but your weapon will "go to the enemy" later prove that you really robbed, and did not sell / kill someone and dismantled
    6. The experience of Stephen Paddock shows that the armed Americans were in the affected area for 72 minutes, and the special forces made a mistake on the floor and, in general, was engaged in evacuation. And not a single short barrel and so on. "just in case" would not help.
    In most cases, the attack is not advertised, as in hostilities and is not detected in advance by intelligence operations. the fact that someone was threatened and he showed weapons and the attackers fled, as a rule, isolated cases occurring in other possessions such as Sterligov, or the person simply walks in such potentially criminogenic places, at the wrong time and with the wrong comrades.
    7. A showdown with a weapon without prior intent is characteristic in a situation of finding out who did not miss someone / called / showed a finger / tongue and hinted at something else, that is, ON NERVES.
    That is, they do not carry a threat, but are caused by an EMOTIONAL EVALUATION of a daily episode.
    Provoking factors - in women - PMS, bad mood, found a suspicious photo on Instagram and so on. momentary irritants.
    For men, the bosses yelled, the contract fell through, the project was given to another, the wife took the children and left.
    The last cases just indicate - in the parking lot one motorist shot at another, most of these cases.
    And about 3 such "breakdowns" - 1 message that when hunting / fishing by mistake they shot the wrong way.

    Well, and a collection of 2 2-year-old children (Idaho in 2012 and 2014) who shot - another mother - a one-year-old brother. (2014) Then a 4-year-old wounded his mother, and another 2-year-old from a supermarket. (2014)
    Adults probably kill more often
    1. 82т11
      82т11 18 October 2017 11: 43
      0
      How do you live in such a country, where there are so many inadequates? Maybe it's better to move?
  35. Allax
    Allax 17 October 2017 20: 54
    +1
    I completely agree with the author!
    First you need to pass a law on self-defense that’s worthwhile, and only then talk about the free carrying of a firearm.
    Because without a clear definition of what is self-defense, you can only shoot at stray dogs from this gunshot, and that is not a fact. In all other cases, get a free ticket to Kolyma from our very lawful state.
    1. Allax
      Allax 17 October 2017 20: 57
      +1
      Speaking of dogs, it would be nice to adopt a separate law, that is, there are many people with whom dogs cannot be larger than cats, because it is dangerous for others.
  36. ver_
    ver_ 18 October 2017 11: 25
    +1
    Quote: kudma
    Probably 3,5 kg and per meter long with a gun it is easier to defend than a kilogram PM. I'm not talking about power in bestowal.

    .. PM - 560 gr. ...
  37. 82т11
    82т11 18 October 2017 15: 44
    +1
    Here I read the comments and am amazed at how much negativity to their own nation. For thousands of years, our ancestors had weapons in their hands and did not kill each other. They even left a powerful state as their inheritance. And only after the victory of the Reds, the right to have weapons was taken away from the people, and for a hundred years it turned out that Russian lunatics or bandits who should not be given anything more dangerous than a penknife ((
    The legalization of the short barrels has one problem: the lack of weapons for self-defense.
    Self-defense weapons should be:
    1 is available at any time, and a pistol in a holster is long to reach. Who doubts, watch the training when attacking with a snog. Any attack is always sudden, but no one is going to walk with a gun in their hands.
    2. The weapon must shoot only in the hands of the owner.
    That is, the gunshot should be mounted on a wristwatch and served in the hand by voice command or a certain position of the palm. To be removed from the fuse should be fingerprinted. Although I recently saw that you can implant a chip in your hand and use it to unlock a magnetic lock, you can also do it for firearms.
    In any other form of firearm for self-defense, it will be ineffective. Either the children shoot from him, then they will take it away, otherwise you just won’t have time to get it out of the holster.
    1. would
      would 19 October 2017 02: 48
      0
      That is, the gunshot should be mounted on a wristwatch and served in the hand by voice command or a certain position of the palm. To be removed from the fuse should be fingerprinted.


      1. That's just despite this, on the same YouTube there are many examples when the "long-reaching" faster and the knife and the gun pointed at him.

      2. That's just a complex electronic system has already proven its failure. You are hoarse either from adrenaline or from a state of health; the entire voice recognition system will not work. Wrong palm or she is wearing a glove, the entire palm or fingerprint recognition system will not work. These systems are only suitable for a shooting range, where without any adrenaline you can put your hand as it should, wait until the system works and shoot, but they are not suitable for self-defense. I am silent about the fact that a complex electronic system can break down altogether. At the same time, you somehow forget that circumstances may turn out so that another person may need your weapon, even to the same family member as it was in Chechnya in the family of Liliya Asukhanova who shot four militants from a machine gun of her murdered husband. And if there would be a host recognition system on the machine? Here I am about the same.
  38. Loki_2
    Loki_2 18 October 2017 16: 32
    0
    About the duel smiled.
  39. Tire
    Tire 19 October 2017 12: 37
    +3
    In the discussion of legalization of the short-barrel, for some reason, two concepts are mixed, which are slightly on different planes. Namely: the PERMIT for OWNERSHIP and the permission to CARRY WEAPONS. And these are two big differences. Bearing weapons is allowed for all owners of weapons in "very" few countries. But storage and use for sports (hunting) purposes, for example, for VERY many. An example of Germany is that you must be a member of a shooting society (for at least a year, shoot regularly 12 times a year or not regularly 18 times) or have a hunting ticket (if you don’t have to start having problems with the law). Take courses on knowledge of the laws and handling weapons. Get permission from the police and from the rifle federation. Well, and the little things :)
    And after receiving the weapons you need to regularly visit the shooting range. Houses and go around the personal area as much as you want, and then go to the nini. And wearing can be obtained by a very limited circle of people (judges, security guards, policemen ...) and then not in all places. So bring down in one pile, “possession” and “right to wear” of a short barrel are fundamentally wrong.
  40. intuzazist
    intuzazist 19 October 2017 17: 29
    0
    Quote: your1970
    Or do you think that someone will immediately rush across the country to open shooting ranges in towns with a population of 50?

    Interesting! And where, in your opinion, are the officers of the Ministry of Internal Affairs training in small cities ?! Gophers shoot in the forest? To equip a shooting range in a small city is not more difficult and cheaper than a shooting gallery in a city ..................................
    1. your1970
      your1970 20 October 2017 14: 49
      0
      in an abandoned career, employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs - and they can be checked only by ... police (LRO) !!! do you understand the difference between a paid shooting range and a career?
  41. akm8226
    akm8226 19 October 2017 23: 59
    +1
    Citizens - you are arguing in vain. The point is ABSOLUTELY not what weapons and skills the user has and whether he visits the shooting gallery or not - it's LAW! When you use a weapon against a thief picking potatoes from your summer cottage 6 acres, the judge will immediately pronounce you guilty! Right away! For that thief did not threaten your life. Do you agree? No options. But if the law would stipulate that your 6 acres is your PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - dare you know what I mean? - then all questions to the thief. Did he know that he climbed into someone else's garden? I knew. Guilty! All. All charges against you are automatically charged. But now there is no such law. And until you are here, you will not decide anything and you will not find consensus. Point. By the way, this is exactly what our probable adversary did - climbed onto someone else's lawn - if the corpse lies on the lawn and it is not proved that you lured him with a specialist, the judge does not even consider such cases. Buried like a dog and ends in the water.
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 20 October 2017 01: 40
      0
      And if it is a gardener? laughing
  42. Poker
    Poker 20 October 2017 15: 07
    0
    Visit the shooting gallery once a week?
    Oh oh!
    I live in the village of Podsosenie, Staritsky district, Tver province.
    Please tell me the address of the nearest shooting gallery. I guarantee a reward.
  43. Strannik_GO
    Strannik_GO 20 October 2017 19: 29
    +1
    I’ve been trying for a long time to convince the state and society of the need to create a Civil Wearable Audio-Video Recorder, but our legislation is an obstacle in this, since it classifies such devices as unauthorized. What is the difference from the existing registrars issued for power and control structures:
    1. Secret placement (otherwise, their open placement will cause difficulties with their use and endanger the carrier.)
    3. Device software. (The video-audio recorder writes constantly at 2. Low cost. (The device is built on a modular type based on existing smartphones, i.e. the camera and microphone are in a separate module, Wi-Fi or bluetooth communication, an endless flash drive, is written endlessly to the smartphone, and remote "hot button" remote separately.
    an endless flash drive with a minimum volume, so that there would always be a record from where later it can be extracted for presentation as evidence in the competent authorities.
    I would like to once again draw attention to the fact that the coordinator should be an independent, generally accessible, universally recognized organization. In my understanding, the Yandex Corporation can take this upon itself, as it has the resources and capabilities of both a technical and a software plan (selling modules with software and subscribing to rent disk space in a secure Yandex disk section) in the future on this technology You can create a security company.
    the previous 20 minutes. In case ** event ** occurs, by pressing the "hot button" the device sends (in real time) video and audio recording via mobile Internet (with a geo-time stamp) to a secure storage (for example, to the closed Yandex.Disk sector)
    To the above, I want to add Colt's remarks “the created equalizes in the failures of the strong and the weak”, this device levels the boxes and the truth on the scales of justice. And yet, from the power structures I heard such degeneration- "a toy weapon for the rich ..." - which I fundamentally disagree with, at the moment the content of the weapon is very expensive, everything is done so that it would be unavailable for ordinary citizens. (Cost a shot-valuable cartridge, safes, obtaining a license - at a cost comparable to the cost of weapons, and every 5 years requisitions ... requisitions ...
  44. Dr. Bermental
    Dr. Bermental 21 October 2017 20: 11
    0
    it is necessary to read from the Americans and others .... they always had the trunks of people ... take what is needed, what is unnecessary to fix
    1. Allax
      Allax 22 October 2017 15: 55
      0
      Yeah, we already had a constitution and privatization according to the same recipe, we still spit.
  45. kush62
    kush62 22 October 2017 07: 09
    +1
    A man comes into an arms store and tells the seller:
    - Here, I want to return this revolver, which my wife bought from you yesterday.
    - What's the matter? He does not work?
    - No, everything is fine, it works fine, we just made it up.