Military Review

It will be difficult to make a technological revolution with Russia’s own efforts

184
It will be difficult to make a technological revolution with Russia’s own effortsThe world is on the verge of the fourth technological revolution. And although Russia is technologically lagging behind developed countries, it still has a window of opportunity to catch up with them, experts at the Center for Strategic Research say. What are the challenges and risks facing the country on the path to the technological revolution? And most importantly, how can you make this technological leap in practice?


Russia is still lagging behind the technologically advanced countries, where the next technological revolution may occur in the next 6 – 15 years. If during this time Russia does not catch up with them, then the window of opportunity will close, and the lag will become insurmountable. So say experts at the Center for Strategic Research (CSR) Alexei Kudrin, who published a report calling for the launch of a large national project “Russian technological revolution” in the country.

The implementation of this program will ensure Russia's economic growth not lower than 4% of GDP per year in the long term, according to the CSR.

Challenges for Russia

The main challenge that Russia needs to overcome in order to proceed to the fourth industrial revolution is to ensure a steady increase in the level of labor productivity. In 2015, labor productivity in Russia was more than 2,5 times lower than in the USA. If the American level of labor productivity per man-hour was 68,3 dollars, then in Russia - 25,9 dollars. OECD averages are 50,8 dollars. Labor productivity in Russia does not even reach the level of the United States, France and Germany twenty years ago. In Russia, periods of productivity growth alternate with periods of falling indicator.

This requires technological modernization of production through new equipment, equipment and automation. It is necessary to increase investment in fixed assets, which is not yet observed. The degree of depreciation of fixed assets in the manufacturing, extractive industries, in the distribution of electricity, gas and water is high. Plus, it is necessary to drastically modernize the entire economy, using advanced production technologies and employee competencies. For this it is necessary to stimulate the introduction of innovations - technological, organizational, institutional.

The second challenge is the low costs of industrial companies for R & D, which in 2015 were only 0,3% of GDP. For comparison: in China this indicator was equal to 1,54% of GDP, in the USA - 1,79% of GDP, in Japan - 2,72%. In absolute terms, R & D costs of industrial enterprises in China and the United States are almost 30 times the costs in Russian industry.

Many companies buy ready-made technologies and technological equipment, and only 15% develop independently technological solutions.

The third task is to increase the “complexity” of exports and the Russian economy as a whole. Now Russia exports little machinery and equipment, as well as innovative industrial goods. The export structure of Russia is strongly biased towards low complexity products - 82% in the export structure. In countries - leaders of innovation (USA, Germany, South Korea, China) high complexity products occupy 50% and more.

The fourth problem is the critical lag of Russia in terms of the development of advanced technologies that underlie the new industrial revolution. We still import a lot of machinery and equipment, that is, there is a high dependence on foreign equipment and components. We do not produce enough high-tech and knowledge-intensive industries in GDP - only 22,4% of the total output in the country for the year 2016. It is also necessary to reduce the gap in the part of registered patents in such areas as robotics, new materials, additive technologies, industrial Internet, etc.

The fifth challenge is the need to increase the pace of digitalization and platformization of the economy. The potential of Russian digital platforms is concentrated mainly in the field of ICT, electronic commerce, services and finance. There are no Russian digital platforms in science, telemedicine and industry.

Although in some respects Russia is even ahead of other countries: in 2015, per person in Russia accounted for an average 2,8 of an Internet-connected device, while in France and Germany the corresponding figure was at the level of 2,5 and 2,6 devices per person, respectively. And the share of people using the Internet every day is higher in Russia. Plus, it is in our country that practically the cheapest high-speed Internet appeared. At the same time, the Internet penetrates deep into the services sector, but not in the real economy.

Thus, experts conclude that Russia still has a high potential for making a technological transition in various sectors of the economy, especially in terms of digitalization and platformization of economic and social processes. But we need a conscious and systematic state policy in the scientific, technological and industrial spheres.
At the same time, the authors of the report devote a whole section to what decisions and programs have already been made at the state level, noting successes in a number of areas. For example, thanks to innovation development programs of state-owned companies, it was possible to achieve growth in financing PIRs by state companies from 560 billion rubles in 2011 to 1,346 trillion rubles in 2016.

Risks for Russia

The authors of the report also point out the risks that exist when the technological revolution is unfolding in Russia. First, there are structural risks. These include the risks of maintaining dependence on unstable oil and gas revenues and high import dependence in a number of industries. For example, in the automotive industry, shipbuilding, agricultural machinery, oil and gas and heavy engineering, the pharmaceutical and medical industries, machine tools and electronics, as well as in aircraft manufacturing. Import dependence in these industries ranges from 44% to 92%. Russia also runs the risk of facing a shortage of its own resources and technologies necessary for the new technological revolution.

The second part of the risks associated with challenges in the field of human capital and the modernization of the labor market. The main risk is associated with the consequences of the aging process of the population, which leads to fundamental changes in the situation on the labor market, in the social sphere and in health care.

In addition, there is a risk that Russia, which has high-quality human capital and research potential, can poorly convert it all into technological innovations. And, of course, the legislation should keep pace with technological changes, but will the deputies cope with this? Finally, will Russia succeed in effectively managing scientific and technological development?

“The CSR report provides an overall picture of the unfolding of the technological revolution, lists the challenges for Russia, with which we can agree. There were few such documents with a wide planning horizon in Russia; therefore, it is useful and necessary. However, such documents do not solve much, - commented the first vice-president of the Russian Union of Engineers, Ivan Andrievsky. “The authors cannot offer specific means and methods for achieving success - this is not in their competence, they offer only general directions of development.”

And then, at the state level, everything will again come up against questions of who will create and implement a new scientific and technological policy, who will be responsible for their implementation, what funds will be used for this, continues Andrievsky. “First of all, there should be interested parties for such a technological breakthrough. And they are not. Rather, they exist, but they are hard to hear, they are somewhere in the second and third roles, they are not given the opportunity to turn around in full force, ”he said.

Ways of development of Russia

TsSR experts briefly write about two traditional existing development paths for Russia. Or it will go in an evolutionary way - deep modernization and technological optimization of existing industries and industries. Either in a revolutionary way - anticipatory creation of new breakthrough sectors.

However, a combination of these two paths seems optimal. On the one hand, it is worth focusing on the development of the latest technologies that are only being developed in the world, or on where competencies have units and Russia has the potential to become at least one of the leaders. A good example is the development of composite materials for aviation industry, the "black wing" for the MS-21, or the creation of nanotechnology.

However, in those sectors in which the world has gone far ahead, it is better for Russia to follow the path of cooperation with foreign companies like China. It is not necessary to shut off the world and create absolutely all technologies from scratch or from a technologically weak base available to the country. This will require much more time than one decade, not to mention completely overwhelming means. In addition, it absolutely will not become a guarantee that Russia will suddenly be ahead of the rest of the planet where it is now far behind in technological terms.

It is worth actively attracting foreigners to Russian territory in order to use their technology and technological equipment. But do not dwell on the creation of foreign production in Russian territory, as it was popular in the 2000. The main goal is to learn from their experience, learn how to produce products at their level. Then, on the basis of acquired knowledge and competencies, invest in the creation of our own technologies and equipment with the goal of creating something of our own, and better of a higher class, that is, surpass and overtake. Starting not from scratch, but from studying the existing high-tech experience of other countries is able to provide a much faster and cheaper way and raise labor productivity, and upgrade fixed assets.

So says Anna Bukrinskaya, deputy general director for the strategic development of the industrial parks network Dega Development.

“Our industry requires large investments, both financial and personnel, and technological, in order to reduce the time lag of lag with European and even Chinese states. Unfortunately, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the industry suffered greatly. According to our estimates, now 80% of enterprises are still operating in the last century. This is old equipment, old technology, it’s impossible to use the raw material base that exists in the country at 100%, ”says Anna Bukrinskaya.

“We have a large number of deposits of non-ferrous and ferrous metals, coal, gold, etc. But this raw material base is used only at 20 – 30%. First, all this is abandoned. Secondly, there are no frames. Now we have everything - managers and economists, and the profession of a geologist, technologist, engineer, unfortunately, is forgotten. This is a scientific collapse coupled with a shortage of technologies and equipment for mining, ”she continues.

And without cooperation with foreigners it is hard to fix it. “Russia remains a commodity country, but we are striving to change the course of the game. This is possible if we can not only competently produce raw materials, but also correctly process them, and not somewhere in China, but in our country. It is clear that I would like to produce everything in Russia within the framework of the policy of import substitution. But in the chain from raw materials to the final product, it is necessary to attract foreign companies. But that they do not just come, and shared the process and equipment.

We need the cooperation of our country, rich in raw materials and personnel, and we have smart people who just need to be sent to the right profession, with foreign companies that have new technologies and equipment.

This can be a contract manufacturing, when the company is looking for an existing plant, upgrading the line and releasing a new product. This is necessary and useful for us, exactly as the creation of new productions in cooperation with foreign technologies, in order to adopt the advanced experience, ”the source argues.

You can, of course, take the path of catching up on all that we have missed and create something of our own. But what will come of it? “For example, we have our own equipment for the production of medical gloves in the pharmaceutical industry. A company comes to us that would like to close a niche for consumables, in particular gloves. But she is faced with the fact that in Russia there are no high-quality polymer products for this, because there are no special conditions and equipment for the conversion of coarse polymer into that polymer, which is necessary for pharma. We can start doing it ourselves from scratch, but it will take much longer than if we try to combine the existing foreign experience with what we can give now, ”says Anna Bukrinskaya.

Do not forget about the problem with credit money. “If in Germany production is given a loan under 2 – 3%, then we have 10% voiced, and in fact we get 16 – 17%. The economy of the company tends to zero, because 10 for years it must beat off loans, and only then start earning. It is easier to bring used equipment and rivet the product that will give more margin than to follow technological progress, ”says Bukrinskaya. If the Russian company finds a foreign partner, the project will be able to find foreign loans at a low interest rate, she adds.

And the successful Chinese experience of such cooperation with foreigners before our eyes. “In China, thanks to this, they made a crazy technological revolution in 15 years. The economy allows the Chinese to earn more, but it all started not from inventing everything from scratch, but from borrowing, ”the source concluded.
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https://vz.ru/economy/2017/10/12/890711.html
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 14 October 2017 06: 36 New
    12
    Yes, everything’s the case. Take the industrialization of the USSR as an example. In the 30s, this was all done with Western equipment, technology and specialists. And iron discipline ... What can’t be achieved with our laws now. And the main thing is the social and political system!
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 06: 59 New
      21
      Quote: 210ox
      And most importantly, the social and political system!

      And why do these experts about "no frames" mutter? They themselves would go to technologists, geologists, engineers. Only tongue scratching much. Geologists have not tried to pay with dignity?
      1. iouris
        iouris 14 October 2017 18: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        Geologists have not tried to pay with dignity?

        Geologists were robbed in 1991. They worked for communism, everything went to world capital, and geologists had nothing to do with it.
    2. My address
      My address 14 October 2017 07: 01 New
      28
      hi Dmitry!
      Nyche! In three years, at 2020, at least 25 million new high-tech (!!!) jobs will be created! SAM in 2013 year promised! And the corresponding anecdote:
      A guy bought a bottle of Putinki, opened it, and from there a gin flew out and said: "Ask, man, what do you want! I promise everything!".
      Sadly all this.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 14 October 2017 09: 19 New
        +6
        By the way, I myself am working, so to speak, at a new production facility .... Automation is controlled by controllers and all that ... Instrumentation and automation is my field of activity. That's just ALL imported .. By the way, Siemens refused to supply dual-purpose operator panels on request. By the way, in principle, all equipment for our production can be purchased by a Russian manufacturer. Voronezh, Moscow. BUT! The owner worships German.
        Quote: My address
        hi Dmitry!
        Nyche! In three years, at 2020, at least 25 million new high-tech (!!!) jobs will be created! SAM in 2013 year promised! And the corresponding anecdote:
        A guy bought a bottle of Putinki, opened it, and from there a gin flew out and said: "Ask, man, what do you want! I promise everything!".
        Sadly all this.
      2. Alikos
        Alikos 14 October 2017 16: 15 New
        +8
        Quote: My address
        in 2020, at least 25 million new, high-tech (!!!) jobs will be created! SAM in 2013 promised


        Well, they’ll cut the money, but there is no longer any production facility where these 25 million jobs can be placed ... They killed everyone!
      3. White and fluffy
        White and fluffy 16 October 2017 11: 12 New
        +1
        It would be generally funny. WHEN NO SENSE OF Bitterness
    3. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 14 October 2017 09: 11 New
      +6
      Quote: 210ox
      Yes, everything’s the case. Take the industrialization of the USSR as an example. In the 30s, this was all done with Western equipment, technology and specialists. And iron discipline ... What can’t be achieved with our laws now. And the main thing is the social and political system!

      I have to agree. Modernization in 6-15 years, easy! Chubais in the basement until they spit out what they swallowed. Nationalization and "our steam engine fly forward." Now the situation is better than in the 30s. Another thing is "Tops do not want. But bottoms can not" carry out modernization.
      1. krops777
        krops777 14 October 2017 10: 01 New
        +7
        So experts say the Center for Strategic Research (CSR) Alexei Kudrin


        Kudrin just did not say where to put these "highly effective" managers, the cohort of which he himself represents, and what happens if the "window" closes, we catch up with the bullshit, let the heaven-hell descend from heaven.
        1. d ^ Amir
          d ^ Amir 14 October 2017 10: 35 New
          12
          In 2015, labor productivity in Russia was more than 2,5 times lower than in the USA

          lies .... injects more than the rest of the world ... the old Russian problem "one with a bipod, seven with a spoon" has not gone anywhere !!!!!!!!! If you send all the managers and oversight to work, then maybe we will slip through ....
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 11: 57 New
            +9
            Quote: d ^ Amir
            the old Russian problem "for one with a bipod seven with a spoon" has not gone away !!

            I finished off about the shots. These clowns themselves destroyed all the shots and continue to destroy. The market will ruin everything! After all, they themselves lowered the working class below the plinth. Scoops we are for them and. But they are so correct and clever of themselves. And what does it ask, do they have the Russian economy hanging somewhere in 75th place?
          2. Awaz
            Awaz 15 October 2017 17: 25 New
            +3
            I completely agree. I work in production and they brought us Italian workers to exchange experience, that is, they had to show us how to work. They were disgraced in full. Our average employee works 20 percent faster, and more efficiently. It is on simple and easy processes. Where painstaking and accurate work is required, the difference is even higher .. The manual for quickly getting rid of the Italians and then the truth shut up to talk about low productivity. Although they have already begun again ...
            All the disadvantages of poor quality work organization. They are trying to replace standard materials with fakes and no one controls suppliers, all are blamed on workers. As a result, a lot of alterations and marriage.
      2. Sling cutter
        Sling cutter 14 October 2017 13: 35 New
        12
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        I have to agree. Modernization in 6-15 years, easy!

        Raise Russia really for a couple of five-year plans!
        But neither under the current government and with a guarantee it can be argued that the point of no return will be passed over the next 6 years.

        And now the most important thing: power has fallen into a kind of “fork”: on the one hand it is obvious that a new industrialization is needed, and on the other, industry is the working class, and the working class, as you know, is the grave digger of the bourgeoisie.
        The 25-year-old destruction and lumination of the working class and the working intelligentsia was the main task of the Elzinoids and their followers.
        As you know, even with huge money, but without hands and brains it’s impossible to build anything.
        All over again, respectively; To study, study and study, but already in another state and with other rulers.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 05: 52 New
          +7
          Quote: Stroporez
          Raise Russia really for a couple of five-year plans!

          Why not in a couple of months? Chatter, chatter again ...
          Quote: Stroporez
          But neither under the current government and with a guarantee it can be argued that the point of no return will be passed over the next 6 years

          What kind of point is this? And why exactly 6 years? Trepony again ....
          Quote: Stroporez
          industry is the working class, and the working class, as you know, the grave digger of the bourgeoisie

          Sneakers do not tell. The mass of capitalist countries, quite industrialized, and no one there is no grave digger. Again, trepidation ...
          Quote: Stroporez
          As you know, even with huge money, but without hands and brains it’s impossible to build anything

          Hands and brains can be hired. For the very money. Not this way?
          Quote: Stroporez
          All over again, respectively; To study, study and study, but already in another state and with other rulers

          Dreaming is not bad. It’s harmful not to dream ...
          1. Sling cutter
            Sling cutter 15 October 2017 20: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Why not in a couple of months? Chatter, chatter again ...

            Patamushta needs to restore the technological chains of m / y with existing enterprises and build new ones. And the most important thing is to restore the necessary number of specialists and workers, and engineers, and technologists.
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Hands and brains can be hired. For the very money. Not this way?

            Now it will apparently be necessary, but only as a training staff for new technologies.
            Restoration of vocational schools and various schools for retraining from barykhkhkh and lumpen, back to the working class.
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Dreaming is not bad. It’s harmful not to dream ...

            with vovanoputamedvetami especially do not dream! therefore have to clean.
            And denyuzhki izyrennye people return !!!
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 21: 07 New
              +8
              Quote: Stroporez
              patamushta need to restore the technological chains of m / y with existing enterprises and build new

              What are the “chains” between existing enterprises, which are not there right now, but they need to be “restored”? Maybe these chains are not needed at all?
              What exactly are the "new enterprises" going to build? Who will determine whether an enterprise is needed or not?
              Quote: Stroporez
              Restoration of vocational schools and various schools for retraining from barykhkhkh and lumpen, back to the working class

              Cool "working class" you get from "hucksters and lumpen" good
              And will you drive them for retraining under escort? And they will live in a boarding school (high security) at vocational schools, so as not to scatter, right? wink
              Quote: Stroporez
              And denyuzhki izyrennye people return !!!

              Well, this fad of yours is already known. Where it will lead, I already wrote to one brow ... too lazy to repeat. I’ll just say that it definitely won’t lead to anything particularly good.
    4. iouris
      iouris 14 October 2017 18: 26 New
      +5
      To make a technological revolution, you need to change the socio-political system. At the same time, the system will do everything without the Russian Federation, and the population will partially corrode, the rest will die out. But there are many signs that a “Holocaust” is being prepared for the Russians.
      1. zoolu350
        zoolu350 15 October 2017 05: 35 New
        +1
        But how to change it? After all, we are no longer the people, but the totality of consumers.
    5. Setrac
      Setrac 15 October 2017 08: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: 210ox
      Yes, that's it.

      And what's the matter? Do you seriously think that labor productivity in the USA is higher than in Russia?
      And everything is simple to the point of banality - they have higher prices and for the same part (roughly speaking) “they” get $ 68, and “we” get $ 25.
      It is necessary to count in pieces, liters, tons, but not in dollars.
      1. True
        True 16 October 2017 14: 40 New
        +1
        About productivity: in the summer I read the news. Britain's post is switching to unmanned postal vans. The production of these vans will work 1 (one) person. Will control the robots. One person in production + unmanned cars!
    6. user
      user 17 October 2017 09: 53 New
      0
      Yes, everything is on the case. Take the industrialization of the USSR as an example. In the 30s, this was all done with the help of Western equipment, technologies and specialists.


      Sorry if you don’t like something, but that you wrote complete nonsense. You are either not aware of how and how the industrialization of the USSR was made or you turned on the fool.
      The biggest problem of the USSR at that time was the lack of personnel and the educational level of the population was below the plinth. They are trying not to notice this now, but look at the level of literacy (in fact they can read) of the population. It was simply no one to work on a simple basis; most of the educated population was lost as a result of the civil war and the ensuing immigration. Look at what place in the world ranking of the educated population we found ourselves by the beginning of the 30s, and the problem of engineering and technical personnel was generally disastrous. All this was overcome with great blood and losses. Today, do not be surprised, according to some official foreign sources, we came out on top in the world in the number of people with higher education per thousand population, and we graduate economists and lawyers a lot in comparison with the Soviet era, and not in comparison with the developed countries of the world . It’s just that the majority of released technical specialists have remained and still are not in demand, although there is no problem if you watch TV. And this reserve of a highly educated, but not demanded population (any retraining of the necessary specialties is a maximum of 6-12 months) in combination with natural resources is what scares the West.

      But, but for everything else, political will is needed that does not require a change in the political system, and not the demagogy of comrades like Kudrin.
  2. Semenov
    Semenov 14 October 2017 06: 42 New
    +6
    Well, why does no one do this if everyone understands? Capitalism is losing to socialism, 30 years have gone the wrong way.
    1. Blackmokona
      Blackmokona 14 October 2017 09: 17 New
      +5
      100 years loses, and almost socialism is gone
      1. Semenov
        Semenov 14 October 2017 09: 29 New
        +5
        Well, yes, especially in Sweden, capitalism triumphed - and oops - came to almost socialism. And maybe not almost.
        1. Blackmokona
          Blackmokona 14 October 2017 09: 49 New
          +1
          Only capitalism has not gone anywhere, it holds 100% of the market.
          1. Semenov
            Semenov 14 October 2017 09: 54 New
            +3
            So what, but socialism has come after capitalism. Like a Cro-Magnon after a Neanderthal.
            1. Blackmokona
              Blackmokona 14 October 2017 09: 58 New
              0
              So the Neanderthal disappeared, and capitalism in Sweden has not gone anywhere, and is not going to leave.
              1. Semenov
                Semenov 14 October 2017 10: 06 New
                +3
                Even modern man has some Neanderthal genes. Recessive.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 14 October 2017 10: 10 New
                  0
                  In Russia's poor wild capitalism, 70% of state GDP sector and growing towards the public sector
                  In Sweden's socialist good capitalism, 90% of GDP is the private sector and is growing towards the private sector, the state continues to reduce its participation.
                  https://www.vedomosti.ru/economics/articles/2016/
                  09/29/658959-goskompanii-kontroliruyut-ekonomiki
                  The state is rapidly increasing its presence in the economy. The contribution of him and state-owned companies to GDP grew to 70% in 2015 from 35% in 2005, the FAS writes. The number of state and municipal unitary enterprises has tripled in three years, the service refers to the Unified State Register of Legal Entities
                  1. Semenov
                    Semenov 14 October 2017 10: 47 New
                    +3
                    The paths are different, one result. Only in 2005 there were no fights for parking lots in the yard, and now even “poor” students have nowhere to park near the institute. And not just them.
                    1. aybolyt678
                      aybolyt678 14 October 2017 13: 00 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Semenov
                      Only in 2005 there were no fights for parking lots in the yard, and now even “poor” students have nowhere to park near the institute. And not just them.

                      The standard of living is growing, the level of dissatisfaction with life is growing even faster
                      1. russki1972
                        russki1972 14 October 2017 13: 18 New
                        +6
                        Where it grows - In Moskvabad ???
                    2. Gardamir
                      Gardamir 14 October 2017 16: 52 New
                      0
                      "poor" students
                      they earned or the whole country lives on credit?
                    3. True
                      True 16 October 2017 14: 47 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Semenov
                      even “poor” students have nowhere to park near the institute.

                      Which institute? Where does training stand like a cast-iron bridge?
          2. iouris
            iouris 14 October 2017 18: 29 New
            0
            Capitalism under the rule of TNCs is impossible. The US administration is an analogue of the USSR State Planning Commission. Why an analogue - because the US administration is a global government.
    2. thinker
      thinker 14 October 2017 09: 27 New
      0
      Yes, as usual - "Russians harness for a long time ..."
      September 12-14 in Moscow will be held first National Import Substitution 2017 Forum
      1. Blackmokona
        Blackmokona 14 October 2017 10: 14 New
        +4
        Another useless talking room is wonderful, more forums, committees, ministries, services, organizations, advisers, consultants, foundations, etc. So that the entire population of Russia is engaged in stimulating innovative progress through its discussion.
      2. iouris
        iouris 14 October 2017 18: 31 New
        0
        Quote: thinker
        Yes, as usual - "Russians harness for a long time ..."

        What exactly do Russians harness? The iron horse replaced the Russian horse. It seems that the Russians are coming from the fair.
  3. San Sanych
    San Sanych 14 October 2017 07: 57 New
    11
    in modern Russia, they build only gas pipelines and oil pipelines mainly, and even supermarkets, they began to make many films (mainly the so-called soap), and our homegrown owners of factories, newspapers and ships do not want to engage in science and the real industrial sector and high-tech industries and / or stupidity
    1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 October 2017 08: 09 New
      +1
      San Sanych go to the site "Made with us" and see what opens up in modern Russia, otherwise you will look idle, do you need it?
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 08: 42 New
        16
        Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
        San Sanych go to the site "Made with us" and see what opens up in modern Russia, otherwise you will look idle, do you need it?

        On a Russian scale, a drop in the ocean. What to be proud of? This is necessary, the production of bearings has been established. A greenhouse was built somewhere. Ural gave birth to a new one. sad It’s a pity they don’t report how many industries are closing down. Take a look around you. Thousands of young loafers in garbage shops suffer, consultants call names, selling teapots and pans.
        1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
          Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 October 2017 15: 51 New
          +2
          According to this site, from mid-2011 to this day, more than 1000 large enterprises and industries have been opened, of course, they created more under Stalin, but it cannot be said that now nothing is being done !!! My friend (a young loafer) used to work as a security guard, and five years ago, he went to work in his specialty, satellites do !!!
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 16: 16 New
            +7
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            from mid-2011 to this day, more than 1000 large enterprises and enterprises have been opened, of course, under Stalin they created more

            I note - large-scale production under Stalin, and large-scale production now - this difference is orders of magnitude. Not by tonnage produced, but by efficiency.
            I’m not joking even once ... the numbers in the studio - I bet wink
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 16: 17 New
            +5
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            My friend (a young loafer) used to work as a security guard, and five years ago, he went to work in his specialty, satellites do !!!

            But I immediately had three friends in the same time lost their jobs, and went on guard. Now in banks and shops wiping pants. And they all to fifty dollars. And everyone worked at different enterprises. This is me on the issue of closed production. And all went to Moscow. Only now all of Russia will not move to Moscow. And those who work by profession can generally be counted on the fingers. I myself went to locksmiths, even though I was studying for a technologist in reinforced concrete. And they are building factories, yes. The Chinese, for example. A friend from the labor exchange is sent there, and the turnip is scratched: "Oh, there probably must be Chinese. Well, or English." And why are we building a little? Only about investment and think. When is the next wave of privatization planned? No, Uncle Vanya, I don’t like it all. hi
          3. Alf
            Alf 14 October 2017 19: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            more than 1000 large enterprises opened

            Who is the OWNER? Where will the money of the country go that could be directed to the development of the country, and not to withdraw through offshore and into the pocket of Abramovich-Vekselberg-Potanin and others.
            1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
              Uncle Vanya Susanin 15 October 2017 04: 53 New
              0
              Who can be the master under capitalism? weird question!
        2. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 16: 21 New
          +8
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          On a Russian scale, a drop in the ocean. What to be proud of? This is necessary, the production of bearings has been established. A greenhouse was built somewhere. Ural gave birth to a new

          Nothing ... and the truth - gave birth?
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Thousands of young loafers in garbage stores suffer, consultants call names, selling teapots and pans

          Yeah ... and now I’ll get out of hard drinking and go again to program programs ... for people who do not sell kettles and pans at all ... but devices for the development of health, including youth ....

          Hint: you can’t drink a can of beer while skiing (even) on a snowboard ... well, if not completely insane, essno laughing
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 16: 53 New
            +2
            Quote: Golovan Jack
            Nothing ... and the truth - gave birth?

            I'm talking about the truck. laughing
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            You opened the first page, open the rubrics

            Yes Easy. Only I, among other things, pay attention to who is building. And here - byad. Profit then where will it go? I do not think that any foreigners are concerned about the opinion of the Russian population. And they will not provide us with unions.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 20: 41 New
              +7
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              I'm talking about the truck

              Oh how ... but I thought about the ridge was belay
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Only I, among other things, pay attention to who is building. And here - byad. Profit then where will it go?

              And salary with taxes - where?
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              I do not think that any foreigners are concerned about the opinion of the Russian population. And they will not provide us with unions.

              Opinion does not bother until it expresses itself purposefully. And the union of trade unions is the salvation of drowning people, you know, most often it is the work of the drowning people themselves. How sad it is request
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 20: 50 New
                +3
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                And the union of trade unions is the salvation of drowning people, you know, most often it is the work of the drowning people themselves. How sad it is

                It is so. Only the authorities do not like this organization. Well, just like you ticks. wink Do not be offended. hi
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 22: 12 New
                  +6
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Only the authorities do not like this organization

                  And what, it would seem, is something for the authorities before them?
                  A trade union is a layer between the employer and the employee ... in a particular, separate enterprise, for simplicity we will assume that this is a private enterprise.
                  And from what, seemingly, side is the power here?
                  And I definitely ... not really ticks negative
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 22: 25 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    A trade union is a layer between the employer and the employee ... in a particular, separate enterprise, for simplicity we will assume that this is a private enterprise.

                    And I thought - the foreman.
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    And from what, seemingly, side is the power here?

                    Yes, in all bourgeois countries, trade unions organize strikes and swing galleys. No way. And before, I remember, you’ll go to a trade union, and there you could lend money to pay future salaries. request
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    And I definitely ... not really ticks

                    And I remember. hi
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 22: 32 New
                      +7
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      And before, I remember, you’ll go to a trade union, and there they could lend money to the future salary

                      Oooo ... there is a lot that they could.
                      I in the state office, license plate, working on distribution, cunningly transferred from material scientists (here my department didn’t do anything useful ... as I saw it, at least) into a mat. modeling belay
                      And as a result the commission on labor disputes of the enterprise decided. The same union, that is.
                      It has long been true ...
        3. Uncle Vanya Susanin
          Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 October 2017 16: 39 New
          0
          You opened the first page, open the rubrics, and analyze, at least 2014-2017, it will be interesting !!!
        4. Alf
          Alf 14 October 2017 19: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          What to be proud of? This is necessary, the production of bearings has been established.

          But in Samara, the 9th bearing was closed, the 4th was destroyed back in the 90s.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 20: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: Alf
            But in Samara, the 9th bearing was closed, the 4th was destroyed back in the 90s

            But now they produce as much as 7% of the needs in Russia for bearings. The remaining 93% over the hill purchase. Probably a lot of money.
      2. San Sanych
        San Sanych 14 October 2017 09: 03 New
        13
        Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
        San Sanych go to the site "Made with us" and see what opens up in modern Russia, otherwise you will look idle, do you need it?

        it’s better to go to any store, and immediately see where what has been done is somehow more visible there, or go to the airport and look at whose planes we are flying now
        1. turbris
          turbris 14 October 2017 11: 34 New
          +2
          San Sanych feels good when everything is bad, but then someone else sends to the site. Most importantly, he thinks that this is precisely his purpose - say that everything is bad - you will never make a mistake and people will reach for you. Yes, such demagogues are a dime a dozen, starting with the media, which categorically refuse to cover what is happening inside Russia.
          1. San Sanych
            San Sanych 14 October 2017 13: 08 New
            +4
            Quote: turbris
            San Sanych feels good when everything is bad, but then someone else sends to the site. Most importantly, he thinks that this is precisely his purpose - say that everything is bad - you will never make a mistake and people will reach for you. Yes, such demagogues are a dime a dozen, starting with the media, which categorically refuse to cover what is happening inside Russia.

            there is nothing to argue, and decided to go personal, but if you live the life of an ostrich, buried its head in the sand, and do not want to see reality in all its unsightly glory, well, this is your choice, continue to scream ryat further, only this has passed and during the Russian-Japanese, and during the late Brezhnev
        2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
          Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 October 2017 15: 58 New
          +2
          Dear San Sanych, I report to you, in January of this year, when I moved to a new apartment, I decided to update household appliances and furniture, and so, I bring to your attention that I have purchased a refrigerator, washing machine, electric oven, microwave oven, furniture and sanitary equipment of Russian production! Specially did not choose, took what was needed !!!
          1. Alf
            Alf 14 October 2017 20: 09 New
            +2
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            fridge,

            The decision to create an enterprise on the basis of the Novolipetsk Metallurgical Plant was made in 1988, construction began in 1989, and the contractor was the Italian company Merloni (since 2005 it has been called Indesit).
            In 2000, NLMK sold the Merloni plant, from which moment the products are manufactured under the Indesit and Hotpoint-Ariston brands.
            In 2004, near Stinol, the owners built a factory for the production of washing machines, and a special economic zone was created for an educated cluster of Italian enterprises.

            Who is the owner of the microwave oven factory you bought? In plumbing. You look at the toilet in the store, and there the inscription is glued. The mechanism of the company is such and such.
            Yutafon was also Russian-made. He was so advertised that advertising that the "first Russian" from each iron was pearl. And there was only Russian in it packaging.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 20: 26 New
              +5
              Quote: Alf
              You look at the toilet in the store, and there the inscription is glued. The mechanism of the company is such and such.

              Familiar with people with disabilities who collect this mechanism. 3-4 thousand receive for this work. Rubles. And they have nowhere to go. I’m waiting for Petrov, screaming that I’m lying.
          2. 210ox
            210ox 15 October 2017 06: 16 New
            +1
            Oh well! Stamps in the studio! "Producer" is Russian. Legal address is yes! And where is it made? I will believe in the refrigerator. Furniture and plumbing too. By the way, where are the interiors from in the refrigerator? No need to be proud of the screwdriver assembly, dear! Although let's say twenty years or so was. But in twenty years it could have been many times more. Just greed and theft.
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            Dear San Sanych, I report to you, in January of this year, when I moved to a new apartment, I decided to update household appliances and furniture, and so, I bring to your attention that I have purchased a refrigerator, washing machine, electric oven, microwave oven, furniture and sanitary equipment of Russian production! Specially did not choose, took what was needed !!!
          3. Ladoga
            Ladoga 15 October 2017 23: 28 New
            +1
            I read it and became curious, but what am I using from what I also purchased to my new apartment this summer? I looked, I also didn’t choose specifically from patriotic motives, and I report to you: a Turkish washing machine (Hansa), a Japanese TV (Toshiba), Polish sanitary ware, an iron, a kettle, a Chinese microwave oven, a Korean electric boiler (Navien Deluxe), a Turkish gas stove (Hansa ), even the indoor antenna and that Chinese! Well, is there really nothing Nashensky, Russian ?! Ah no! Found ! Here it is, a refrigerator manufactured by BEKO LLC in Russia! I'm terribly proud! Not all polymers have come through!
      3. groks
        groks 14 October 2017 09: 34 New
        +6
        Almost half of the fakes are there, the rest - miraculously surviving Soviet production, was modernized with Western components. Upgraded to ruble, laundered to lard.
        1. turbris
          turbris 14 October 2017 11: 37 New
          +2
          Are you serious? Indeed, there on the site even contact information is indicated for new production facilities, you can just call and check.
          1. groks
            groks 14 October 2017 16: 40 New
            +8
            This is me very seriously. Already found in that contact pearls such as "except for substance" - this is about the fact that we will flood the whole world with insulin. Or "designed and manufactured electrical cabinet" - this is the news, as we fill up the whole world with high-tech machines. Cinema with the furious brand "Made in USA" on the elements of "our" processing center. The server is purely ours - on the ass they forgot to tear off the Super Micro label.
            Some crap is spread right on the oasis, within one page.
            This is not patriotism - to cover up everyone’s eyes and put on pink glasses. This is a betrayal. Articles with links to the Unas are published only by EdRo propagandists, led by a St. Petersburg-based Satanist Jew, as he called himself.
      4. 210ox
        210ox 14 October 2017 09: 53 New
        +5
        An interesting site to the music "Time-ahead!" .... But at such a pace, we will restore industrial production in a hundred years ... We must also take into account that large countries have long left us in infinitely catching up with what is shown on this site.
        Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
        San Sanych go to the site "Made with us" and see what opens up in modern Russia, otherwise you will look idle, do you need it?
        1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
          Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 October 2017 16: 35 New
          +1
          Here on the site, not so long ago there was information that Russia came out on 4th place in the world in terms of industrial production! maybe slowly, but catching up, although the work, of course, is still awesome !!!
          1. Alf
            Alf 14 October 2017 20: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
            Russia took 4th place in the world in terms of industrial production!
            It seems like an adult, but believe all garbage.
            "The volume of industrial production" and "the volume of industrial production of RUSSIAN products" are two completely different things.
            If the Mercedes is assembled in Kaliningrad, then from this it will not become Russian production.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 22: 17 New
              +7
              Quote: Alf
              If the Mercedes is assembled in Kaliningrad, then from this it will not become Russian production

              Why, interestingly, do you think so?
              If it is "localized" at least 50 percent, then this is half the Russian product.
              Am I mistaken somewhere? Where, if I am mistaken?
              1. Alf
                Alf 14 October 2017 23: 04 New
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                Quote: Alf
                If the Mercedes is assembled in Kaliningrad, then from this it will not become Russian production

                Why, interestingly, do you think so?
                If it is "localized" at least 50 percent, then this is half the Russian product.
                Am I mistaken somewhere? Where, if I am mistaken?

                What is it localized in? Mats does? Where do the engines produce? Where are the boxes? For Kaluga Ford Focus, even hire for the case is imported. They only collect from us and let out any unprincipled small things. That's what statistics say and that production is localized at 50%, but only assembly is real. As with the Lynx, they just collected. Ah, yes, the nameplates themselves screwed.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 23: 17 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Alf
                  What is it localized in? Mats does? Where do the engines produce?

                  For example...
                  The Volkswagen concern, which includes several brands, has seriously approached the issue of production localization. Volkswagen Polo and Tiguan and Skoda Rapid assemble at a full-cycle plant in Kaluga. In Nizhny Novgorod - Volkswagen Jetta, Skoda Octavia and Yeti. In budget models - for example, Polo - the number of domestic parts already exceeds half. Largely due to the launch of the engine plant last fall

                  There is still, look, if interested:
                2. True
                  True 16 October 2017 15: 04 New
                  +1
                  Yes, what’s there, on Lada West less than 50% of domestic components.
              2. Sling cutter
                Sling cutter 14 October 2017 23: 16 New
                +1
                Quote: Golovan Jack
                If it is "localized" at least 50 percent, then this is half the Russian product.

                heh laughing if you eat imported cheeses (forbidden in the Russian Federation), then in the process of processing your personal excrements are obtained completely, but you are gr. RF, so pay taxes and determine how much exhaust is a domestic product wassat laughing
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 23: 20 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  if you eat imported cheeses (forbidden in the Russian Federation)

                  I talked about the localization of production, not consumption yet ... do not confuse the pedals.
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  in the process of processing your personal excrements are obtained completely, but you are gr. RF, so pay taxes

                  Che say ... you have funny analogies ... somewhat anal, however, plan ...
                  1. Sling cutter
                    Sling cutter 14 October 2017 23: 49 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Golovan Jack
                    I talked about the localization of production, not consumption yet ... do not confuse the pedals.
                    Quote: Page

                    Paphos is very much! lol Let's move the topic about the localization of the SSJ, a breathtaking job done, done on a thing negative Regarding the MO, is there a ragazin too that tryndit about import substitution or am I mistaken? And this is gede, in the holy of holies, this is MO !!!
                    But you needing nudity about the car industry, so there it’s not only losing beholas to beham, kiyaz and folts, but tagaz is trying to lose to Katays.
                    and now in the case, the import of the finished car is subject to a crippled tax, thank you wavana for the long summers, but spare parts are another! I fastened the calyx stick, and here are those of our Nashen car imports at the type of market price.
                    all in Navar, aozt rf, other pozerskie poets, well, dogs.
                    you have funny analogies ... somewhat anal, though plan ...

                    I’m trying for your understanding, otherwise at the above-throat level you’ll stall. what
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 14 October 2017 23: 54 New
                      +7
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      ... and now in the case ...

                      Well, I wrote above - Volkswagen has been riveting engines in the Russian Federation for a year now, for example.
                      It is more profitable to produce here than "at home" - the local salary is not even a European one even once, at least therefore it is already more profitable ...
                      Quote: Stroporez
                      I’m trying for your understanding, otherwise at the above-throat level you’ll stall

                      Mdya ... Your opinion about me is very important to me (s) laughing
            2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
              Uncle Vanya Susanin 15 October 2017 04: 58 New
              +1
              And if the Mercedes is assembled in China, for some reason it is considered to be in the PRC of China! Double standards, they are so double
      5. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 14 October 2017 13: 03 New
        +7
        Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
        San Sanych go to the site "Made with us" and see what opens up in modern Russia, otherwise you will look idle, do you need it?

        Vanya Susanin! and you try to go shopping and buy only Russian! not Chinese by order, namely Russian. Recognize yourself as a throat. I am sure.
        1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
          Uncle Vanya Susanin 14 October 2017 16: 28 New
          +1
          You are mistaken, my dear, you are mistaken !!! Just calmly buy domestic !!! See my answer to San Sanychu!
    2. tasha
      tasha 14 October 2017 08: 26 New
      +5
      they don’t want to engage in science and the real industrial sector and high-tech industries

      Well, porridge in your head, San Sanych. A bike, if not a bike, but in Germany, the Ministry of Post worked on the development of the atomic bomb. But what about the owner of the airline, should we have a research institute? Only large corporations can afford it. They are doing something, but they are developing only on the topics they need. Fundamental science is the task of the state ...
      1. San Sanych
        San Sanych 14 October 2017 09: 37 New
        12
        it doesn’t matter what it’s called, it’s important that the result is in the USSR, after the most destructive of the history of wars, after 4 years they tested the atomic bomb, 12 years later the satellite was launched, and the missiles were produced at the combine production plant, Yuzhmash, remember this? Now, in Skolkovo, what gave birth? chips for fur coats? request
        1. tasha
          tasha 14 October 2017 10: 01 New
          0
          But you write:
          our homegrown owners of factories, newspapers and steamboats do not want, because of their greed and (or) poor mind

          So who should produce satellites, missiles and bombs? Private traders?
          1. San Sanych
            San Sanych 14 October 2017 10: 24 New
            +3
            in the USA there are such corporations as Ford, General Motors, Boeing, IBM, etc. e, you can still remember Ilona Mask, although he may be a figure overly hyped, but nevertheless there are results
            1. tasha
              tasha 14 October 2017 10: 52 New
              +2
              Who will let their Fords, Generals Motors, etc ... appear in Russia?
              1. San Sanych
                San Sanych 14 October 2017 11: 22 New
                +5
                the fact of the matter is, pumping oil and driving it through pipes is much more interesting and easier, for our business captains, in pursuit of momentary profits, but the era of oil is already coming to an end, and that something the Russian Ilon Mask is not noticeable, but there is Chubais and Prokhorov with projects like an e-mobile or money to cut into Skolkovo, and then transported them over a hill
                1. tasha
                  tasha 16 October 2017 04: 29 New
                  0
                  But there are Chubais and Prokhorovs with projections such as an e-mobile or money to cut into Skolkovo

                  I say porridge. wink A.B. Chubais - Head of the STATE RUSNANO company. M.D. Prokhorov could become our Ilon Mask, he just in vain decided to become a presidential candidate. They explained to him what was happening ...
                  1. San Sanych
                    San Sanych 16 October 2017 09: 45 New
                    +1
                    Quote: tasha
                    But there are Chubais and Prokhorovs with projections such as an e-mobile or money to cut into Skolkovo

                    I say porridge. wink A.B. Chubais - Head of the STATE RUSNANO company. M.D. Prokhorov could become our Ilon Mask, he just in vain decided to become a presidential candidate. They explained to him what was happening ...

                    if Prokhorov really wanted to become a real industrialist, and not a raw material producer, he would become one, there are more than enough opportunities, but he is more interested in Kursaveli, but Ilon Mask, in contrast to him, is really an entrepreneur, and not nouveau riche
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 10: 21 New
          +8
          Quote: San Sanych
          in the USSR, after the most destructive of the history of wars, after 4 years they tested the atomic bomb, 12 years later the satellite was launched, and the rockets were produced at the combine production plant, Yuzhmash, remember this ?,

          This is still about the plans of the third five-year plan keep quiet.
          Quote: San Sanych
          chips for fur coats?

          For the bourgeoisie a useful thing, I guess.
  4. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 14 October 2017 08: 36 New
    +5
    So say experts at the Center for Strategic Research (CSR) Alexei Kudrin, who published a report calling for the launch of a large national project, the Russian Technological Revolution, in the country.

    Do not forget about the problem with credit money. “If in Germany they give loans for the development of production at 2-3%, then we voice 10%, but in fact it turns out 16-17%.

    Alexey, is this not your monetary policy? Maybe it's easier to buy 100 billion US securities and push something like Chubais into the people?
    As long as Russia doesn’t have cheap loans, nothing will turn out, it’s so obvious, money is the blood of the economy and Russia pours its blood over to America or freezes in the form of gold, there is no economic growth without money.
    You can earn a bank differently, give out 100 rubles a year to one person at 10 percent or 100 rubles to 5 people at 2 percent and get the same 10 percent of revenue but using a larger amount of money but money always leaves a mark, someone invested in buying an apartment construction, someone in entrepreneurial activity creating jobs, etc.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 17 October 2017 07: 50 New
      +1
      Quote: saturn.mmm
      someone invested in the purchase of an apartment construction stimulation, someone in entrepreneurial activity creating jobs, etc.

      And most are in Chinese consumer goods, clothing toys, here it is the secret of China's growth laughing
  5. gridasov
    gridasov 14 October 2017 09: 34 New
    +3
    The basis of planning and modeling various levels of prospects for the development of the state or any process in general is knowledge. This is knowledge in the field of mathematics, which allows you to see the algorithms for the development of processes or in simple language - "What will happen after we reach the task?". Only in this way can you plan different levels of perspectives from nearest to remote. But Mankind uses methods that do not allow this, and we rely on the purely subjective abilities of individuals to compose their vision for the future. Therefore, everyone who begins to compose this future should pay attention to their abilities to be able to do this. And as the sages said, - “Thoughtful reasoning cannot be the fruit of empty talk”
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 15 October 2017 05: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: gridasov
      But Mankind uses methods that do not allow this, and we rely on the purely subjective abilities of individuals to compose their vision for the future.

      Obviously, in addition to mathematics, there is also tactics, strategy, willpower, lack of morality, the ability to villainy. to the killing. And simply, a happy case. The more the individual’s material wealth begins to differ from the average one, the more his growth opportunities and the loss of this property tend to change exponentially, disproportionately.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 15 October 2017 11: 12 New
        0
        You will not argue that everything in the world has certain regular relationships. Therefore, while mankind lived in low-potential levels of its existence, computational mathematics suited us. New times are characterized by a high capacity of information processes, which naturally correspond to the equivalent of physical processes of higher potential, capacious, contrasting and highly dynamic. Therefore, it is no longer possible to use the mathematical technologies of inaccurate and approximate calculation on those properties of the number that we know. This means. that we need new mathematical analysis technologies, rather than calculating super-large data. This also includes the technology of integer values ​​of the number and radial and fractal constructions. not linear. People should come closer to understanding that new analysis technologies will not exclude old methods as they are a private solution as part of new analysis technologies.
        Let this not surprise you. but the technique of working with super-large data is potentially capable of analyzing everything at all. what happens in the world of our existence and other worlds. Tactics, strategy, willpower, and generally everything that comes to mind can be expressed mathematically as certain groups of mathematical structures with a specific oriented potential for their development as a process.
  6. midshipman
    midshipman 14 October 2017 09: 49 New
    +4
    Description of technological development is erroneous. China developed a \ in a different way. We provided them with information, innovative, navigation technologies. The Russian Federation can calmly catch up with the development of the country lost by the Medvedev government. Remember our defense technology of nine ministries of the late 80s: automated workshops, warehouses, GAPs. AC ATC. AC aircraft, AS air defense. MKS "Buran", etc. Again, Kudrin and his company are not declaring what Russia needs. I have the honor.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 14 October 2017 10: 47 New
      0
      It is quite obvious that your analysis does not rely on modeling situations taking into account all possible factors of influence, but only on what has already been done and this does not suit someone for subjective reasons. They would do it differently and it would also not suit many.
  7. Kenxnumx
    Kenxnumx 14 October 2017 10: 30 New
    +4
    But there is no money. Do not compare us in investment in science with the West. And more than an order of magnitude. Therefore, if we do not find a way to reconcile and integrate again into Western scientific communities, we will be left behind forever. This is still our military equipment, in principle, at a level. But in the case of serious scientific breakthroughs, it will become obsolete.
    1. San Sanych
      San Sanych 14 October 2017 12: 01 New
      +4
      "We have the means! We have not enough mind!" so said the cat Matroskin. A trillion dollars is dead weight in offshore. When the USSR began industrialization, one could only dream of such money
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 15 October 2017 06: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: San Sanych
        "We have the means! We have not enough mind!" so said the cat Matroskin. A trillion dollars is dead weight in offshore. When the USSR began industrialization, one could only dream of such money

        I will repeat many times - production for money is like sex for people, so money multiplies. And, accordingly, they strive to where they can breed. We do not have enough money but the conditions for the development of production. I consider the imbalance in the exchange rate to be the main condition. Why is buying something high-quality abroad cheaper than producing at home? Can someone remember the year 98 when, thanks to inflation of 400 percent, the growth in real production grew by 20 percent and some industries, such as poultry farming, revived?
    2. Kent0001
      Kent0001 14 October 2017 12: 55 New
      +2
      need to engage in technical espionage and not to steam. An example on our eastern border.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 14 October 2017 13: 20 New
        +2
        And where to steal something? That someone and somewhere found solutions for rational development? Under your nose you need to seek out the talents and abilities of people to solve this revolution.
        1. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 15 October 2017 06: 46 New
          +1
          Quote: gridasov
          Under your nose you need to seek out the talents and abilities of people to solve this revolution.

          Talent is a monetary unit in ancient Athens, expressed the value of a specialist slave.
          for a long time, since the beginning of the nineties, I have been observing a trend when talented children, youth, after participating in some kind of competitions, go to America. and find application where it is in demand. Money rules the world, and production for money as sex for people - money multiplies like that. The bleeding of our economy comes from the difference in the purchasing power of currencies. Why buy there cheaper than producing at home?
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 06: 57 New
            +8
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Why buy there cheaper than producing at home?

            Because, for example, we are not able to produce much of what is produced "there", "here". Or we can, but not of that quality.
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Bleeding our economy comes from the difference in the purchasing power of currencies

            The proposed sharp rise in the price of the dollar is:
            1. Extremely unpopular "among the people"
            2. Not at all a panacea for all ills. Although importers, of course, will try to some extent.
            1. aybolyt678
              aybolyt678 15 October 2017 12: 39 New
              +1
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              The proposed sharp rise in the price of the dollar is:
              1. Extremely unpopular "among the people"
              2. Not at all a panacea for all ills. Although importers, of course, will try to some extent.

              let's try in order.
              1. This is not popular among the people because the bulk of the people are engaged in the distribution and sale of products produced there. But, as it was written in the office of the Latin language in our university - for the development of a person to take place, it must be difficult for him.
              2. Panacea, the Greek term, the cure for everything. A sharp rise in the price of the dollar will redirect cash flows from offshore to the country. It will spur production. Quality, as a way to satisfy needs, will be born out of quantity and demand.
              1. Golovan Jack
                Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 13: 08 New
                +8
                Quote: aybolyt678
                this is not popular among the people because the bulk of the people are involved in the distribution and sale of products produced there

                Well, let's say that it is. Although - there are many people, from janitors to ... GA pilots, for example, which does not distribute anything. And on them this rise in price will hit too, inevitably.
                Quote: aybolyt678
                for a person to develop, it must be difficult

                And you are soooooo laughing
                And where do you propose to put all this army of people, which suddenly had nothing to "distribute"? Retrain? To whom, sorry? Or to distribute to labor camps? Or may everyone survive as he can?
                Quote: aybolyt678
                A sharp rise in the dollar redirects cash flows from offshore to the country

                Oh, something doesn’t seem so to me ... I can smell it (I can’t justify it yet, no).
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Boosts production ...

                Yeah ... the interest rate on loans will fall, probably? Nooooo ...
                Will imported equipment become cheaper? Goodbye, updating the means of production (there are none of ours, with rare exceptions, and it will not be soon, if at all ... This is not chicken meat for you).
                Quote: aybolyt678
                Quality, as a way to satisfy needs, will be born out of quantity and demand.

                You must first have a "quantity", and solvent demand. Neither one nor the other, a sharp jump in the dollar just like that, "by the pike command", will not give rise.
                All IMHO, of course.
                1. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 17 October 2017 06: 09 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  And where do you propose to put all this army of people, which suddenly had nothing to "distribute"? Retrain? To whom, sorry? Or to distribute to labor camps? Or may everyone survive as he can?

                  All over the world, in the real production sphere, no more than 10 percent of the population works. All the rest are doctors, teachers, police, entertainment, services. A very large percentage of import “distributors” will switch to the distribution of domestic goods. The rest will work in the specialties. It is no secret that almost every tradesman has an engineering degree.
                2. aybolyt678
                  aybolyt678 17 October 2017 06: 13 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Golovan Jack
                  A sharp rise in the dollar redirects cash flows from offshore to the country

                  Oh, something doesn’t seem so to me ... I can smell it (I can’t justify it yet, no).

                  I repeat, production for money is like sex for people, so money multiplies. The very nature of money is the equivalent of labor. and only then is it all the rest
          2. gridasov
            gridasov 15 October 2017 11: 24 New
            +2
            I do not think that money determines many actions of talented youth and specialists. Although this is certainly an important influence factor. Russia does not have a development program at various levels of prospects. And people who do not have guidelines for their social actions are completely indifferent to the society in which they exist. The Americans clearly understand that it is the intellectual potential of a certain part of the population that can give impulses for the development of the community. All this says that in Russia there are no people in the highest echelons of power who would determine both strategy and tactics for the development of future generations. . Without conventions, GDP is a historical figure with the effective potential of its intelligence. But !!! We need a system that will work in such a way that each social group of people will be self-fulfilling and self-sufficient on the basis of the national idea of ​​building a Great Power. What do we have? We have manual control of the system and many politicians and social scientists model the consequences of leaving the GDP. And I will tell you that it is difficult to build a model of a sustainable society when a change of leader occurs. In general, this is a separate topic of discussion.
      2. Kenxnumx
        Kenxnumx 14 October 2017 13: 36 New
        +1
        The USSR was engaged in mass theft of technology. Microelectronics and more. Entire laboratories worked on adaptation. Yes, even successful theft does not give the right technological level. If we ourselves then only consistently thorough development. And we have no money, no time, no people.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 14 October 2017 15: 30 New
          0
          Of course, we can agree that all methods are good for achieving goals. . However, there are such nuances. which always determine technological advantage. At the same Cradle "influx" on the blades of the turbines. And if you don’t know this, then the turbine will work in a completely different mode. Although with all this, a set of new solutions generally changes the concept and design of the turbine, and these influxes are generally a key element in creating a new configuration of the blades. But the most important thing is to understand what such influxes give and why. By the way, Schauberger used them.
        2. groks
          groks 14 October 2017 16: 54 New
          +2
          Well, then the intelligence services of the corresponding areas worked. But there is one subtlety. To use the result of industrial espionage, you need to have the appropriate scientific potential - to understand what to steal and what was stolen. And the appropriate technological - to produce stolen. And now, for capitalism, also sell the result.
          The question is, what is the Russian Federation to steal now? When high-tech industries collapsed in the 90s, and rocket engines are already delivered to the USA.
        3. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 14 October 2017 17: 25 New
          +4
          Quote: Ken71
          The USSR was engaged in mass theft of technology. Microelectronics and more.

          You already really got your anti-Soviet!
          Have you finally heard anything about the Nobel laureate Zh.I. Alferov?
          What did the USSR copy-paste from the West? Enough for you to fool around, industrial espionage is a world tradition, but there are technologies and their further development, but there is copying.
          1. Gransasso
            Gransasso 14 October 2017 17: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Stroporez
            What did the USSR copy-paste in the west?



            Yes, almost everything that was produced in the USSR is a copy of Western originals ... copies of very poor quality and ...
            1. Sling cutter
              Sling cutter 14 October 2017 17: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Gransasso
              Yes, almost everything that was produced in the USSR is a copy of Western originals ... copies of very poor quality and ...

              Justify!
              1. Gransasso
                Gransasso 14 October 2017 17: 47 New
                +1
                Quote: Stroporez
                Quote: Gransasso
                Yes, almost everything that was produced in the USSR is a copy of Western originals ... copies of very poor quality and ...

                Justify!



                Yes please ... good reading ... start here for example with this ....


                http://germanych.livejournal.com/133607.html
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 18: 36 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Gransasso
                  Yes please ... good reading ... start here for example with this ....

                  I didn’t want to fit in, but I can’t resist. The collapse of the USSR began even with Khrushchev, who destroyed the artels. It was the artels that competed with the state, not allowing it to swim in fat. According to the plan of the third five-year plan, it was supposed to catch up with the west in the production of goods per capita, and this plan worked. There, your author compares the car. And where is the M-20-Victory? And where are the TVs that the cooperatives have been producing since the 39th year? And FED cameras in the juvenile colony were manufactured using German equipment, boys, in the NKVD colony. And they invented drilling machines in the same place. Here is such a bloody gebnya. Read Makarenko, and the opus to which you refer can be turned into a tube. Comparison of TU with Concord generally does not go into any gates.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 07: 24 New
                    +7
                    Quote: mordvin xnumx
                    ... FED cameras ...

                    A copy from Lake, by the way. If sclerosis doesn’t change me.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 15 October 2017 10: 25 New
                      +4
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      A copy from Lake, by the way. If sclerosis doesn’t change me.

                      So they were produced under a German license, if sclerosis does not change me. I don’t see anything bad here. When the engineers were told what their homeless children would do, they only twisted their fingers at the temple. fool They did not believe, because at that time it was a very complicated production. "Watering cans? Boys? Lenses with micron precision? Hehe." wassat However, these street children built a plant from scratch. And the technology is German, so there was nothing like it in RI.
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 10: 42 New
                        +7
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        So they were produced under a German license, if sclerosis does not change me. I don’t see anything bad here. When the engineers were told what their homeless children would do, they only twisted their fingers at the temple ...

                        Thanks for the details. I didn’t know, but I also forgot request
                2. Sling cutter
                  Sling cutter 14 October 2017 19: 28 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Gransasso
                  Yes please ... good reading ... forgive me for example from this ....


                  http://germanych.livejournal.com/133607.html

                  m is that all? something weak. laughing
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 19: 58 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Stroporez
                    m is that all? something weak.

                    Not even a bit weak, there the type under the nickname Germanets writes complete nonsense, trying to determine the similarity of things in appearance. It’s the same as determining which people have communized each other's pants.
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 14 October 2017 20: 28 New
                      +2
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Not even a bit weak, there the type under the nickname Germanets writes complete nonsense, trying to determine the similarity of things in appearance. It’s the same as determining which people have communized each other's pants.

                      Friend drinks , here separate "elements" are so stupid belay Count up, compare the refrigerator, there’s frost and there’s frost, so “scoops” “frost” was stolen wassat
                      But to compare BZHDK they have a shortage of mozkhkhs, and such a terrible shortage.
                      So I’m saying, until yesterday’s "fairy tale" comes true, it will be even worse ...
                      Zy.My wife, now a Soviet juicer, squeezed out half a ton of apples. Amazing performance laughing
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 20: 40 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Zy.My wife, now a Soviet juicer, squeezed out half a ton of apples. Amazing performance

                        I envy. Ask Anton Opus for a recipe for calvados, a delicious thing. Though bourgeois. He stole a recipe from them, not otherwise. drinks laughing
                      2. Alf
                        Alf 14 October 2017 21: 09 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Zy.My wife, now a Soviet juicer, squeezed out half a ton of apples. Amazing performance

                        Phew! It is uneconomical, with a terrible design and all of iron, at a time when the whole free world is made of plastic (though, disposable and flimsy). laughing
                  2. Gransasso
                    Gransasso 14 October 2017 22: 26 New
                    +1
                    To start, not bad ... continue ... https: //www.ferra.ru/ru/byt/review/6-ussr-vacu
                    um-cleaners-copied /


                    It will be necessary again, loom .. this good, in bulk ...
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 14 October 2017 22: 47 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Gransasso
                      It will be necessary again, loom .. this good, in bulk ...

                      Don’t eat the litter-tv yourself, you’ll get high, but my immune system rejects something wassat
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 22: 56 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Gransasso
                      https://www.ferra.ru/ru/byt/review/6-ussr-vacu
                      um-cleaners-copied /

                      Quote: Gransasso
                      It will be necessary again, loom .. this good, in bulk ...

                      Something does not open. What kind of vacuum pump is there? In Russian, at least write the name. what
                3. groks
                  groks 14 October 2017 20: 24 New
                  +3
                  That’s interesting - should the Soviet TV be different from the western pentagon screen?
                  The fact of the matter is that the general level of technological development dictates to designers certain optimal solutions. Significant deviations in appearance usually mean a significant complexity of the design, often unjustified. Therefore, all the tanks, after Christie, do not look like Christie.
                  Cars now, like twins, outwardly, in general, everything. So what to do now? But the first car, with wheel arches under a single hood, was Victory, "but the author was too shy to write about this.
                  1. Alf
                    Alf 14 October 2017 21: 11 New
                    +3
                    Quote: groks
                    But the first car, with wheel arches under a single hood, was Victory, "but the author was too shy to write about this.

                    Little of. In 1958, Moskvich-407 and Seagull took the Grand Prix at a motor show in Belgium.
                    1. Sling cutter
                      Sling cutter 14 October 2017 22: 52 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Alf
                      Little of. In 1958, Moskvich-407 and Seagull took the Grand Prix at a motor show in Belgium.

                      Scha puteveputsyut pereshyut under done what and another 100 lard will be brought under this business, by the way, the terminology "lard", "watermelon", "lam" is used by the notorious citizen Ivanov, his son, who was banged in Europe, or in gang warfare, felts there at the time of detention ...
        4. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 15 October 2017 06: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: Ken71
          The USSR was engaged in mass theft of technology. Microelectronics and more.

          And the USSR repeatedly came across the fact that it was trying to introduce knowingly erroneous technologies, and suffered many billion dollars in this. It’s better to buy few of the best specialists than to provide jobs for millions of Chinese people. Political will is needed. However.
          1. groks
            groks 15 October 2017 07: 28 New
            +1
            Well, examples of these deliberately erroneous.
      3. iouris
        iouris 14 October 2017 18: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Kent0001
        An example on our eastern border.

        There is not only espionage, but also almost the largest market in the world, and the Russian Federation is only half of Russia, moreover, the population is quantitatively and qualitatively degrading, while the other sexes of Russia are not only degrading, but are also subversive.
    3. Alf
      Alf 14 October 2017 20: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: Ken71
      integrate again into the western scientific communities

      Who will let us go there? Not for this they ruined.
      Quote: Ken71
      Therefore, if we do not find a way to make peace

      So how did you put up with the dead?
      Quote: Ken71
      But there is no money.

      And if you look? In the pockets of friends, do you want to fool around? How many billions from Russia exported? Here is the money.
      1. groks
        groks 14 October 2017 21: 43 New
        +4
        British scientists have calculated that if you shake everything out of the offshore, select collections of pens and watches, walk through the attics of the oligarchs, the people of Russia can live peacefully for 300 years without doing anything and not selling oil and gas.
        1. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 14 October 2017 23: 04 New
          +2
          Quote: groks
          British scientists have calculated that if you shake everything out of the offshore, select collections of pens and watches, walk through the attics of the oligarchs, the people of Russia can live peacefully for 300 years without doing anything and not selling oil and gas.

          So let's look at the "raspberries" thieves! We’ll open two factories, the first will produce “cello”, and the second ice axes, if you didn’t buy the product of the first factory for parlulars, then the second comes into play, with specially trained enthusiasts good
        2. aybolyt678
          aybolyt678 15 October 2017 07: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: groks
          British scientists estimate that if you shake everything from offshore

          a trillion dollars divided by 140 million Russians it turns out somewhere around seven thousand bucks for each. Strange scientists in Britain. This is not enough for 300 years.
          1. groks
            groks 15 October 2017 07: 30 New
            0
            Known for specific numbers pushed into offshore? And attic supplies?
          2. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 07: 32 New
            +8
            Quote: aybolyt678
            Strange scientists in Britain

            "British scientists have proven ..." - this is an Internet meme, if I'm not mistaken.
  8. VadimSt
    VadimSt 14 October 2017 12: 14 New
    +1
    Damn, they compared an ostrich egg with a quail - yes, according to the pleasant taste and content of useful trace elements!
    Yes, compare the area of ​​Russia and these "super developed", the number of settlements, enterprises, population and the like, "virtually shove" the most modern enterprises in Russia into the same area that the "super developed" ones have - and Russia will be no less " developed".
    Zadolbali untermensch policy!
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 15 October 2017 07: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: VadimSt
      “virtually shove” the most modern enterprises in Russia onto the same area that the “super developed” have, and Russia will be no less “developed”.

      In this way, quality of roads can be justified. !! however, look at the length of roads in small Germany and in large Russia. I was surprised but in Germany there are more roads.
      And little Japan and Korea, and how many of their cars are in Greater Russia?
      1. groks
        groks 15 October 2017 07: 37 New
        +1
        Stop writing nonsense. The quality of the roads is very dependent on the climate. When Europe began to freeze in winter, the roads in Germany came first. the spring sailed away. Which roads are more in Germany? Between the cities? So they and the distance between cities is less by an order of magnitude. Although it’s hard to understand what “more” means - two in parallel?
        1. True
          True 16 October 2017 15: 49 New
          +2
          Our correspondent found in Russia an “eternal” track, which has been standing as brand new for over ten years without repair. [Media = https: //m.youtube.com/watch? V = -a_VthmU
          Uo8]
  9. SMP
    SMP 14 October 2017 12: 29 New
    +2
    Russia is still lagging behind technologically developed countries, where the next technological revolution could happen in the next 6-15 years. If during this time Russia does not catch up with them, the window of opportunity will close and the gap will become insurmountable. So consider uexperts of the Center for Strategic Research (CSR) Alexei Kudrinwho published a report calling for the launch of a large national project, the Russian Technological Revolution, in the country.


    Yeah, and put the most important of the chief directors of Chubais wassat

    The main challenge that Russia needs to overcome in order to move to the fourth industrial revolution is to ensure a steady increase in labor productivity. In 2015, labor productivity in Russia was more than 2,5 times lower than in the United States.


    After these words I stopped reading, as I got the nonsense of these victims of the Bologna education system pppststs ...........

    And afffffffffftor: Olga Samofalova Mlyn .. was interested in how many industrial enterprises except USA MIC left in america?

    MORE THAN 90% OF THE WHOLE INDUSTRY MORE IN THE SHAGGED 90s, MOVED TO SOUTH KOREA TAIWAN CHINA and TD and TP and PPPP.

    AFFFLOR APPLICABLE THOUGHTS LABOR PRODUCTIVITY OF OFFICE PLANKTON ???

    Here is nonsense, and they also probably pay a salary, (((((specialists))))
  10. SMP
    SMP 14 October 2017 12: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: San Sanych
    "We have the means! We have not enough mind! "said the cat Matroskin. A trillion dollars is a dead weight in offshore. When the USSR began industrialization, one could only dream of such money


    We do not have enough intelligence ... how aptly noticed only where and from whom?

    I don’t remember who first said Russia, as always, has two problems: fools and roads.

    They just forgot to clarify who is building these roads all the time?
    In tsarist Russia, serfdom didn’t have any money, and now everything is in dogue and credit, but who builds DROGS?

    And the roads in Russia are built by power. And if the fools are in power, then the roads are bad, and the eggs are in the way of dancing, and here’s the fourth technological mode, we’ll oversleep.

    It’s just that the Russian people are very patient and endure fools in power for a long time, long but not forever..
    1. Kent0001
      Kent0001 14 October 2017 12: 53 New
      +6
      Americans in the new year, this trillion enrollment. And for example, I do not care, these grandmothers still do not return to the Russian Federation. They put all our oligarchs on one comrade with his deoffshorization. And the conclusion of the woman in offshore is supported at the government level. Unfortunately, you can’t wait for the good.
  11. Kent0001
    Kent0001 14 October 2017 12: 50 New
    +4
    What for oligarchs nyokr. They need grandmas here and now. Therefore, we still cannot do LCD panels. And OUR SUPER PRICE IS PRICE FROM A SPACE STATION FOR PRODUCTIVITY AT THE LEVEL OF AMEROVSKY 10-YEARS OLD PRESENT.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 15 October 2017 07: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Kent0001
      What for oligarchs nyokr. They need grandmas here and now. Therefore, we still cannot do LCD panels. And OUR SUPER PRICE IS PRICE FROM A SPACE STATION FOR PRODUCTIVITY AT THE LEVEL OF AMEROVSKY 10-YEARS OLD PRESENT.

      It is necessary in Leninsky to go the other way!
  12. SMP
    SMP 14 October 2017 12: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: d ^ Amir
    In 2015, labor productivity in Russia was more than 2,5 times lower than in the USA

    lies .... injects more than the rest of the world ... the old Russian problem "one with a bipod, seven with a spoon" has not gone anywhere !!!!!!!!! If you send all the managers and oversight to work, then maybe we will slip through ....


    I also wrote below, these ...... there is such a word that the VO filter does not allow comments
    (severely mentally retarded person) here are people from the derivative of this word and got it with their lasting stupidity.
    HALF America is a legal ..... lawyer .... corporation, plus a company of programmers AND EVERYTHING.
    The author of the article compared the productivity of staff, programmers, lawyers and lawyers
    with metallurgists, factory workers, logging workers
    from the Urals to Vladivostok, also Karelia, Yes ????

    Where can I find such a comparison formula by comparing the labor productivity of a lawyer and a metallurgist wassat laughing
    1. olimpiada15
      olimpiada15 14 October 2017 18: 29 New
      +2
      Nobody is looking for a formula for comparing the labor of a metallurgist and a lawyer. If cf. The salary of a lawyer is 200 thousand / month, and the metallurgist is 50, then the labor productivity of a lawyer is 4 times higher, and if an engineer-developer of equipment receives 20 thousand / month, and the top manager is 1200 thousand, then the manager is 60 times more effective than the developer! The more managers in the country, the more efficient the economy. This principle is accepted in the country as a basis,
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 15 October 2017 07: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: olimpiada15
        Nobody is looking for a formula for comparing the labor of a metallurgist and a lawyer

        this formula has long been found. The effectiveness of the real economy is calculated by the number of physically produced physical, competitive goods. Not virtual products, not sales managers and attorney fees, namely, on physical products of technological labor.
      2. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 15 October 2017 13: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: olimpiada15
        and if the engineer-developer of the equipment receives 20 thousand / month, and the top manager is 1200 thousand, then the manager is 60 times more effective than the developer!

        import sales manager is 60 times more effective than a domestic engineer. Why is it so profitable to sell imports?
    2. Nevyatoy
      Nevyatoy 14 October 2017 22: 44 New
      +1
      That's right. They have a type of post-industrial economy where almost half of the GDP from the services and finance markets is tailored. In China, the share of manual labor in the economy at the level of the 19th century in Europe.
  13. SMP
    SMP 14 October 2017 13: 02 New
    +1
    Quote: saturn.mmm
    While in Russia there will be cheap loans nothing will come of it


    In the colonial financial system, cheap loans do not exist.

    Only in an independent State with an Independent financial system, can interest rates be withdrawn up to 0 or 0.1% per annum.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 14 October 2017 13: 24 New
      +2
      What kind of independence are you talking about? Any state is a bunch of parasitic people on the labor of a certain social part of the population bringing surplus product. Moreover, illiterate and not trained, and therefore burning their short lives and not thinking about the future of the nation and people.
    2. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 15 October 2017 07: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: SMP
      Only in an independent State with an Independent financial system, can interest rates be withdrawn up to 0 or 0.1% per annum.

      And we have a double dependence - on the Western banking system and on the whims of "Elite"
      In domestic politics, there is clearly not enough political will. Although the situation with the governors is starting to please
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 15 October 2017 11: 26 New
        +1
        I completely agree ! I will not develop further.
    3. Sparkling
      Sparkling wine - Dry 19 October 2017 10: 55 New
      0
      Quote: SMP
      Only in an independent State with an Independent financial system, can interest rates be withdrawn up to 0 or 0.1% per annum.

      Even if the interest rate of the Central Bank is 0%, this does not mean that loans will be cheap. The cost of money (RUBLE) depends on the rate of its manufacturer (CBR) and, more importantly, its of in circulation.
  14. spirit
    spirit 14 October 2017 14: 44 New
    +2
    Why do entrepreneurs in Russia need this? Low technologies rule here (the Tsar himself said that only raw material miners go to him), because they are cost-effective, high technologies develop where economists say, low ocean, min profitability, plus in due time, for example, in the USA, the warriors invested very coolly in this and technologies were transferred to the citizen in the future.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 14 October 2017 19: 27 New
      +1
      You very correctly noticed that ingenious inventions or discoveries really have an indicator of ultra-high profitability with a minimum of investment in development. Because really important discoveries and inventions are not created for money. This product is always individual creativity and at the initial stage there are only the torment and joys of creativity.
  15. Sedoy
    Sedoy 14 October 2017 15: 08 New
    +6
    his goal is to sell Russia ...

    1. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 14 October 2017 22: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Sedoy
      his goal is to sell Russia ...

      Well Duc, his little friend
  16. SMP
    SMP 14 October 2017 15: 33 New
    +3
    Quote: gridasov
    What kind of independence are you talking about?


    About financial independence, about financial. Which is possible only in an independent state, for example, from global financial institutions.
    For example, the United States, a colony of financial corporations has an external debt of something more $ 20 trillion.
    And the rulers of the Russian Federation with great strides rushing in the same direction in order to catch up and overtake America?
    In the words of the s.r.k.hrushchev, only what is to catch up and overtake in national debt?

    Easy logical task, financial corporations united in the Fed have owners? Yes they do.
    Does the USA have the right to inherit movable and immovable property constitutionally? Yes fixed.
    That is, the owners of Banks and other financial institutions after their death transfer assets to their heirs, including real estate, $ billions, stocks and other securities, which include debt obligations.
    And the main of the inherited securities are debt obligations of the US government that is
    that same debt of $ 20-20,5 trillion. And moreover, the owners of US debt are several families transferring this debt to their sons and daughters and containing (funding) to maintain power, pocket parties of Democrats and Republicans.

    And this is called a monarchy on the basis of debt slavery. (ship interest)
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 14 October 2017 19: 23 New
      0
      Is it possible to call a debt that cannot be taken away. Moreover, does he even know the rate of depreciation of the same dollar as a means of providing various kinds of products or services. But these trillions can be paid in one installment in “eleven” years, when for these amounts it will no longer be possible to buy one. what you can buy now or exchange, or something else. Do not forget the paper may remain paper. Especially . that no one bears real obligations and responsibilities.
    2. Sparkling
      Sparkling wine - Dry 19 October 2017 11: 18 New
      0
      Quote: SMP
      For example, the United States, a colony of financial corporations has an external debt of something more than $ 20 trillion.

      You are wrong. This is not an external debt, it is a public debt and most of this debt is internal (FRS).
      And what is wrong with this duty? You just understand the debt to the state. level (to your Central Bank) is completely different than household debt: debt is bad, because someday you have to return it. No one ever intends to repay this debt in America. Just because it is thanks to debt that the Amerian economy is the first in the world.
  17. zemlyak
    zemlyak 14 October 2017 16: 56 New
    +2
    none of this will happen ... there will be no miracle ... will not ... the authorities do not want, nobody wants to tear the veins for themselves and send others to death ... everyone wants to be white and fluffy ... nobody wants to be bloody and a tyrant ... there will be another cut of the budget and complaints of the next sanctions ... there are no politicians of statesmen, everywhere there are crooks ...
  18. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 14 October 2017 19: 26 New
    +2
    The country is not able to make a technological revolution on its own, all the more ridiculous to wait for help, because for the whole world the Russian Federation is a gas station and a source of raw materials, and not a single state will allow a change in the situation: the USA needs Russian finances that generously go to the most reliable western banks, being a source of economic growth of their economy, Europe needs cheap hydrocarbons so that their products are competitive, and China has a tender market, but what about Russia? Submissively exports hydrocarbons and titanium, and subsidizes their economy: everything there is both goods and money for this goods. Tales of a technological breakthrough remain in the country: we have no money and never will, never. Because it doesn’t happen that the buyer has both the purchased goods and payment for this product. The author is left with an article written in accordance with what was taught, logical, but not related to Russian reality, just economic fantasies.
    1. Alf
      Alf 14 October 2017 20: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: olimpiada15
      The author is left with an article written in accordance with what was taught, logical, but not related to Russian reality, just economic fantasies.

      So in the article it is written that "to master, deepen, expand," but there is no specific need to be done, just empty slogans.
  19. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 14 October 2017 22: 11 New
    +3
    Alf,
    Alf,
    so I say, this device must be set at VDNKh good This thing can even smash the Chubais head into paper clips, they will demolish the Chubais in the cemetery, although I am against it, since I believe that his death should last several years, but the miracle juicer will live! good drinks
  20. Sling cutter
    Sling cutter 14 October 2017 22: 17 New
    +2
    Mordvin 3,
    "Opus" has everything - our people! We must urgently request this recipe! "Drive" the West fuck with his technology yes
    and then stop by, try it, I'll be glad! drinks
  21. Nevyatoy
    Nevyatoy 14 October 2017 22: 39 New
    +1
    How tired of poking this China. Bring Myths. A bunch of Chinese almost a bowl of rice products stamped around the world. At one time, the United States opened markets for them, and they promised to dispose of their government bonds at home. The level of GDP per capita in China is twice less than in Russia. Our engineers and scientists are no worse than others. We have financiers and economists, the shameful vroed Kudrina.
    1. aybolyt678
      aybolyt678 17 October 2017 06: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: NeSvyatoy
      A bunch of Chinese almost a bowl of rice products stamped around the world.

      In China, now no one works for a bowl of rice.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 17 October 2017 06: 27 New
        +7
        Quote: aybolyt678
        In China, now no one works for a bowl of rice

        Amendment: in cities.

        Urumqi, February 14 - In 2016, the per capita income directly available to the rural population of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region / XUAR, Northwest China / increased by 8 percent compared to 2015 and amounted to 10183 yuan / 1454 US dollars / . This is evidenced by the data of the local statistical office

        ... which corresponds to approximately 7400 rubles / month.

        Consider how much food costs in China. Here are the approximate prices in Chinese food supermarkets:
        fruits - from 5 to 20 yuan per kg ($ 0,8-3,2);
        rice - 2,5 yuan per kg ($ 0,4);
        potatoes - 3 yuan per kg ($ 0,5);
        tomatoes - 5 yuan per kg ($ 0,8);
        juice of 1 liter - 14,5 yuan ($ 2,4);
        water 1,5 l - 2 yuan ($ 0,3);
        bread - 9 yuan ($ 1,5);
        shrimp - from 10 to 50 yuan per kg, depending on size ($ 1,6-8);
        meat - 20-25 yuan per kg ($ 3,2-4);
        eggs - up to 12 yuan for 12 pcs ($ 2).
        Prices for fruits and vegetables in China often depend on the season.


        Then think for yourself what exactly these 600 million Chinese people are working for. wink
  22. jovanni
    jovanni 15 October 2017 16: 44 New
    +1
    It will be difficult to make a technological revolution with Russia’s own efforts

    There is no other option. There will be no other high-tech forces. We are not China. No one will invest in the development of Russia ...
  23. complete zero
    complete zero 16 October 2017 07: 56 New
    +1
    - "Russia will go the revolutionary way" .. is it by parsing Red Square into cobblestones? (God forbid) ... but in general the article is absolutely on the case
  24. complete zero
    complete zero 16 October 2017 07: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Jovanni
    It will be difficult to make a technological revolution with Russia’s own efforts

    There is no other option. There will be no other high-tech forces. We are not China. No one will invest in the development of Russia ...

    so-called "unpopular decisions" are necessary, you can’t do without it ... cutting back on social programs, and indeed curtailing a number of social programs .. well, and investing money (which already exists) .. in those very promising science-intensive projects (and if possible they make mistakes) ... only doubts that the government (the current) is capable of it .. in short, the OPA is full
  25. gcn
    gcn 16 October 2017 19: 19 New
    +1
    We talk a lot, think a little, work a little and, in fact, everyone is happy with everything.
  26. aybolyt678
    aybolyt678 17 October 2017 08: 27 New
    +1
    in general, everyone was estranged from the topic, I believe that it will not be difficult to make a technological revolution if you find the right niche, thinking 3D printers can become this niche. If with the help of the state, and the whole country, so that in every house there is ... we will be ahead of the rest!
    1. Sanichsan
      Sanichsan 1 November 2017 14: 41 New
      +1
      Are you seriously? Well Duc flag in your hands and Ali Express! they are already worthless. fine! All rushed to aliexpress and stocked up with 3D printers. in every house as you would like! what's next? but nothing. The Chinese have big incomes, but we don’t understand the necessary 3D printers.
      There are neural networks in the region of which Russia has achieved considerable success. there is nuclear energy in which Russia occupies a leading position (and energy, by the way, is something that no industry will work without). there is robotics, and here Russia has certain successes.
      so what is the article about? Yes, all about the same ... AAAAA !!! EVERYTHING IS LOST!!!!!
      and in the meantime, things are going their course and in the future will be at the height of those who can provide cheap, flexible and mass production. To do this, we have all the resources. but the Chinese version is not good for us. we do not have as many Chinese as in China.
      1. aybolyt678
        aybolyt678 1 November 2017 17: 58 New
        0
        Quote: SanichSan
        there are neural networks in the region of which Russia has achieved considerable success

        in the production of moon rovers, we also achieved considerable success, only where will the economy come to ?. As soon as the neural networks being developed by us can be profitable, they will immediately be there. Only articles about this do not write. And in the modern world, you don’t need many hands
        1. Sanichsan
          Sanichsan 2 November 2017 14: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: aybolyt678
          If you provide all your labor resources with work, then you can fill up the whole world

          as world practice has shown, this is not an easy task.
          the Germans brought in a bunch of Arabs. labor resource? atozh! sure! that's just one problem, these Arabs do not know how and do not want to. so the labor resource turns into human ballast.
          there are no such problems in China. the mentality is different.
          and what about us? and we have a new generation who wants to become a manager or wife of an oligarch ... that is, in fact, do nothing and get paid for it. in my opinion, the problem is not in the absence of technology (then there are no problems. We can give a head start to the whole world), but in the degradation of ideals.
          1. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 2 November 2017 14: 45 New
            +1
            Glad to meet a like-minded person !! only not the degradation of ideals but the absence of a state ideology that has legal force.
          2. aybolyt678
            aybolyt678 2 November 2017 15: 05 New
            +1
            Quote: SanichSan
            the Germans brought in a bunch of Arabs. labor resource? atozh! sure! that's just one problem, these Arabs do not know how and do not want to. so the labor resource turns into human ballast.

            nobody planned to work with this bunch of Arabs. In 50 years, Germany will become a Muslim country. Notre Dame Mosque not read?
            1. Sanichsan
              Sanichsan 3 November 2017 14: 06 New
              +1
              Quote: aybolyt678
              In 50 years, Germany will become a Muslim country.

              very possible ... in any case, the Muslim diasporas in northern countries like Norway are already trying to raise the issue of autonomy.
              I should note that in England in Manchester as early as 1993 the indigenous population was about 10%. the rest is Turks, Arabs and some Africans.
              at first glance, these ideas smack of nationalism, but a closer look reveals that this is an objective reality. Europe is degenerating ... or rather, Europe has already degenerated. point of no return passed in 2014-2015.
              well, it’s just for us. Of course, in the near future it will not do without serious problems (approximately by 2040-2050), but the prospect of a united, controlled Europe is worth it.