Kommersant publishes some details of the crash of Su-24 at Hmeimim airbase

The media published material that provides some details of the crash of a front-line bomber in Syria. Recall that the Su-24 crashed during takeoff from the Hmeimim airfield in the province of Lattakia. The crew in the face of the commander Yuri Medvedkov and navigator Yuri Kopylov died. The plane, which was gathering a run-up run with an ammunition for strikes against the positions of the terrorists, in the end could not tear itself away from the "take-off" and, rolling beyond its limits, exploded.

Newspaper Kommersant, citing its own sources, reports that the Su-24 was in an "unsatisfied position" and "had no chance of getting off the ground."

Management of the press service and information of the main military department of the Russian Federation:

The crew did not manage to eject and died. There are no damages on the ground due to the plane crash.

The article “Kommersant” says that the plane, having done about two-thirds of the way on the runway, was supposed to begin separation from betonka at speeds up to 400 km / h. Indicators in the cockpit showed that the plane was ready for take-off, but as a result, the stabilizer, flaps and slats were not transferred to the "take-off" mode. The crew until the last second tried to lift the car into the air, but the separation did not happen, and at high speed the plane literally took out of the runway. He broke off the front landing gear, got crushed tanks, from which the fuel began to flow. As a result, it ignited, and there was an explosion of ammunition from a front-line bomber.

About the specific causes of failure in the systems of transfer of the hardware in the "takeoff" mode is not reported.

Comments

[figwam]

Yes, unfortunately the human factor.

[xetai9977]

I constantly watch the program "Investigation of the crash" on the channel "National Geografic". Even experienced civilian pilots experience similar errors.

[alexmach]

What other human factor and what other errors. Have you read the article?

The indicators in the cockpit showed that the plane was ready for takeoff, but as a result the stabilizer, flaps and slats were not switched to takeoff mode

About the specific causes of failure in the systems of transfer of the hardware in the "takeoff" mode is not reported.

[Doliva63]

Flying on the type say there is no placard there "ready to take off."

[alstr]

There is no scoreboard, there is a set of indicators and devices (the INDICATORS are written in the article). If they show certain values, then the plane is ready to take off.

[pvv113]

In this case, it is too early to talk about the human factor. The reason for the failure of the wing and stabilizer mechanization is incomprehensible.

[Solomon Kane]

If you look deeper, then people are to blame for the failure of the equipment: they did not inspect, they did not check, they did not report, they forgot, etc. etc. Like it or not - the human factor ..... he is in everything.
Vladimir, be healthy!

[pvv113]

Greetings, Konstantin! If you trace the whole chain, then in the end you can write everything off to a person. Even a crow caught in the air intake can be called a consequence of poor control of the ornithological situation

[figwam]

alexmach

,

pvv113

) It is clear that you are not familiar with aviation.
In addition to checking the indication in the cockpit by the crew, before takeoff and taxiing, the technical staff and flight manager visually controls the wing transfer and the flaps and slats are in the takeoff position, after which takeoff is allowed, but it doesn’t happen, this happens in peacetime, and even the war ....

[okko077]

And you are also a dreamer, on this plane with a full set of specialists and guidance this is almost impossible ..... You read the newspaper Kommersant - this is a fake, you can see right away. One not very smart amateur said something stupid, but they all repeat ... The stabilizer and slats do not depend on the position of the wing ... You know how many people sit down ... and they can’t write off the war ....

[figwam]

okko077

The amateur cannot know such nuances of this aircraft, so this unofficial information came from the scene. I repeat once again, I know the real case of the SU-17M4 take-off with the same wing configuration, unfortunately sometimes professionals make mistakes. The final result will show a record of negotiations and a black box of aircraft parameters.

[okko077]

This is nonsense ... 4 years in the combat regiment on the SU-17M3, and 4 on the SU-24 ... And your arguments are unconvincing .... and not professional ... the “black box of airplane parameters” is just ridiculous .. ..

[figwam]

okko077

I realized if this did not happen in your regiment, then all this is nonsense.

[Doliva63]

"4 years in the combat regiment on the SU-17M3, and 4 years on the SU-24 ..."

Not 20017, by chance?

[figwam]

Quote: okko077

... the black box of airplane parameters "is just funny ....

Oh, just don’t have to cling to terms, if you have nothing to say. If I write in technical terms such as "on-board drive parametric information Bant-32-02" then no one will understand anything.

[Doliva63]

What kind of bow? Why not a tester?

[Stas157]

Quote: okko077

okko077

Quote: okko077

figwam

And why didn’t the pilots catapult, when it became clear that they were rolling out of the strip?

[NN52]

The command for the CPL RP was given ... But it was not completed, either did not have time, or pulled out the car and hoped ...

[figwam]

According to rumors, already during the take-off, they began to shift the wing to the take-off position, of course they pulled the plane to the last as they could.

[NN52]

I wrote it below ...

[not main]

Quote: okko077

And you are also a dreamer, on this plane with a full set of specialists and guidance this is almost impossible ..... You read the newspaper Kommersant - this is a fake, you can see right away. One not very smart amateur said something stupid, but they all repeat ... The stabilizer and slats do not depend on the position of the wing ... You know how many people sit down ... and they can’t write off the war ....

Finally, a sensible comment! Believe Kommersant do not respect yourself! And the reasons will be investigated and communicated to everyone concerned. And the rest: read Kommersant, only preferably through a line and turning on the brain.

[pvv113]

No one except you said that ITS and RP did not check the state of mechanization. You draw conclusions based on your own assumptions.

[okko077]

I draw conclusions based on my own experience in operating this aircraft .. In the described situation, the cause of an emergency can only be deviations in the operation of one of the engines and that's all ..... The rest is unlikely ...

[pvv113]

read carefully

Indicators in the cockpit showed that the aircraft is ready for takeoff

[okko077]

This is for you to write nonsense, and you repeat them ... Listen and remember ...

[figwam]

Quote: okko077

I draw conclusions based on my own experience in operating this aircraft .. In the described situation, the cause of an emergency can only be deviations in the operation of one of the engines and that's all ..... The rest is unlikely ...

You are not making the right conclusions, according to statistics, about 80% of disasters and accidents occur due to the fault of the crew, and the remaining 20% ​​for various reasons, including equipment failure.

[okko077]

Stop practicing verbiage, we are considering a specific case, and the opinion of an amateur is not interesting to me ...

[NN52]

And let me ask you something? Did you exploit (fly) on this type?

[dmmyak40]

It seems to me that you are wrong.
I can not say for sure about the war, but in civil aviation, neither the technical composition, nor even the RP, controls the release of wing mechanization (flaps + slats (if any)), or the installation of a stabilizer, everything is controlled by instruments. On the Yak-40, the stabilizer is installed before taxiing, and the flaps are released in the take-off position at the preliminary launch.
Those. if the flaps, slats with stabilizer were not installed in the take-off position, then this is a crew error. As a rule, this is a consequence of haste. In the 70s there was a case when the Armenian Il-18 crashed during take-off from Pulkovo (Leningrad) due to the fact that the crew was in such a hurry to catch home by the New Year, that he stole all the control cards and took off from !!!!locked steering wheels and generally without mechanization issued, i.e. on a clean wing

[okko077]

I am a warrior. Senior engineer of a bomber aviation regiment on the SU-24 once ... Don’t tell my "airdrome slippers" ....

[NN52]

I won’t say anything about my flight slippers (boots) ...
An attempt to take off at 69 is unfortunately a fact, as it is not sad ....
There will be a lot of questions for hydraulic fracturing (and for PDP) ....

[okko077]

Read normal comments:
http://k-politika.ru/eksperty-obyasnili-pochemu-l
etchiki-su-24-ne-smogli-katapultirovatsya-vo-vrem
ya-krusheniya /
and there is already a photo - the wing is released ...

[NN52]

Are these comments? And the photo was taken yesterday at 9.00?
Started to take off at 69 .... Understood this .... Started to rearrange in the RUN PROGRESS !!!!
Then, as an engineer of the regiment, you probably don’t have to explain anything .... And why didn’t you jump too, they thought they’d have time from the last plate ....

[okko077]

Question: After taxiing from a place and a stop, the wing is shifted to the take-off position, the flaps are released to the take-off position .. A technician with a mechanic checks how they are installed and fixed and gives permission for taxiing and shows checks from the seats ... it happened ... If the bombs then the checks are removed from them at the technical inspection post, where there is also a technician who also checks once the configuration and the absence of leaks of fuel and special liquids .. And only after that the plane taxies into the strip .... It was already so ...

[NN52]

Sorry, but you are beginning to surprise me ... In your time, flaps were released on the central heating station? And taxied with them to the strip?

[okko077]

Absolutely true, and only so, and then the PLP shines through the fault of the ITS and is written in the route map ....

[WUA 518]

Quote: okko077

technical inspection post, where there is also a technician who also checks once the configuration and the absence of leaks of fuel and special liquids .. And only after that the plane taxies into the lane .... So it was so and so ...

And there is.

[figwam]

Quote: WUA 518

And there is.

And it happens that they shift to the runway.

[figwam]

Quote: okko077

I am a warrior. Senior engineer of a bomber aviation regiment on the SU-24 once ... Don’t tell my "airdrome slippers" ....

It’s good that I didn’t serve with you, your opinion is wrong.

[okko077]

Why is there a ballast in aviation?

[pvv113]

Your position does not give the right to consider yourself above all. Explain how swarms of speed of 400 km \ hour the plane could not tear itself away from the runway, if the separation speed of 360-400km \ hour So there was insufficient lift, or take-off mass exceeded the maximum allowable. The second is practically excluded, since the flight overhaul is carried out by the engineer department and the navigational service of the regiment and is rechecked several times. So the matter is in the lifting force. And it directly depends on the mechanization of the wing.

[Gransasso]

Quote: pvv113

So there was insufficient lift, or take-off mass exceeded the maximum allowable. The second is practically excluded, since the flight overhaul is carried out by the engineer department and the navigational service of the regiment and is rechecked several times.

I make mistakes different .. there was such a case in civil aviation with Airbus Australian Quantas ...


The weight of the aircraft was checked and rechecked ... but the co-pilot made a mechanical error while entering data into the aircraft computer ... conditionally instead of 200 tons, he typed 20 tons by mistake ... the computer calculated everything based on these erroneous data and gave a certain thrust to the engines. ..which was absolutely not enough for take-off with real weight ... the pilot took the helm over himself .. and nothing happened .. the plane didn’t take off .. until they recalled what was happening and the commander transferred the ore to the maximum speed-runway was already over. .. flew miraculously .. in centimeters from the chassis protections flew by ...

[pvv113]

ISR is considered manually, on the basis of which the amount of fuel necessary for the flight is determined

[Gransasso]

I mean that a mistake can be made even in the process would concern the most reliable procedures

[pvv113]

In the simplest operations, more errors are allowed than in complex ones. This is due to the weakening of attention.

[okko077]

Guys, you don’t know anything about aviation, you are smart and naive, you shouldn’t be allowed to get on a cannon shot .. You are told how it should be, and you are arguing about something ... Listen, ask questions and remember ...

[sgazeev]

Quote: pvv113

In this case, it is too early to talk about the human factor. The reason for the failure of the wing and stabilizer mechanization is incomprehensible.

There were cases of abandonment of the instrument by techies. According to the GSVG, orders with conclusions were almost constantly issued.

[pvv113]

There is such a sinner. And not only in the Air Force, but also in civil aviation. According to the current documentation, a whole range of measures is being taken to find the tool. Well, with the conclusions naturally

[iouris]

As you can judge, there is not even objective control data yet. Wait for the results of the commission.

[Holoy]

At the base of the mess, it's obvious!

[pavelty]

This is where such a conclusion ?? You are a strange person ...

[Muvka]

You have a mess in your head. That is what is obvious.

[kapitan92]

Quote: Holoy

At the base of the mess, it's obvious!

Obviously, you have a mess in your head. Wait for the investigation to begin.

[Michael newage]

This Persian does not know other words than "mess". In the first topic I wrote the same thing, the troll .

[Oleg Monarchist]

Holoy
At the base of the mess, it's obvious!

But at the bases of your loved ones "exceptional" straight exceptional order



The pilot of the US Navy fighter-bomber McDonnel Douglas F / A-18 Hornet died in a crash that occurred on June 2, 2016 in Tennessee, the military said.
The disaster occurred in the city of Smyrna, located southeast of the state capital - Nashville. The crashed plane was part of the aviation group only aerobatics of the US Navy Blue Angels, which is due next weekend to participate in local exceptional Airshow

Well, you can still recall the engine fell off at exceptional B-52, as well as another B-52, collapsed immediately after takeoff from exceptional airbases Guam.

[rotmistr60]

Kommersant, citing own sources

I always wondered why those who should not be able to deal with the so-called. "own sources" that merge information into the media for money. Thus giving reason for any reasoning of the media until the end of the investigation of the incident.

[Solomon Kane]

So they merge, first the Old, and then the Motherland .....

[rotmistr60]

You are right, and for Kommersant it’s like two fingers ...

[himRa]

Quote: rotmistr60

Kommersant, citing own sources

I always wondered why those who should not be able to deal with the so-called. "own sources" that merge information into the media for money. Thus giving reason for any reasoning of the media until the end of the investigation of the incident.

The flip side of the coin ...
Democracy S ...
Sorry guys ...

[Stas157]

Quote: rotmistr60

I always wondered why those who should not be able to deal with the so-called. "own sources" that merge information into the media for money.

And this time, time is like that. Ruble to the head. If the information is well paid, then there is always someone who will merge it. Have you forgotten what is in our yard? Capitalism. Everyone must take place, that is, earn. What does it matter how! General theft and corruption confirms this!

[Dashout]

Eternal memory to the guys! Mourn

[NN52]

Eternal memory to the guys ....

The fact that they took off from 69. But where did the hydraulic fracturing look? In particular, the PDP? Why didn’t they tell the guys?
And when they noticed, RP gave a command to bail out, but ..... it was too late for roofing felts, the roofing felts were still trying to save the car guys ... But they did not execute the command ....
Something like this....

[dzvero]

Everything is strange. A few days ago, the Mi-28 refused. Fortunately, the crew survived. Now the Su-24, but unfortunately the guys died ... Maybe sabotage? Local "naughty"? After all, not so long ago, one of the locals also leaked Old General information about the general.

[sgazeev]

Quote: dzvero

Everything is strange. A few days ago, the Mi-28 refused. Fortunately, the crew survived. Now the Su-24, but unfortunately the guys died ... Maybe sabotage? Local "naughty"? After all, not so long ago, one of the locals also leaked Old General information about the general.

Sloppy servants. Pretty age flying machine

“There, stranger personnel were not allowed, there are only those who know each other well. And none of them will commit a sabotage, this is unique, ”the former commander of the 4th Air Force and Missile Defense Air Force, Lieutenant General Valery Gorbenko, emphasized in a commentary to VZGLYAD newspaper.

“Given the information that is presented to us, the base is very seriously protected. Meanwhile, the serious security of the base did not save from a technical malfunction. The fact is that the Su-24 is a fairly old-fashioned aircraft, ”military pilot, Air Force colonel, Hero of Russia Valentin Padalka said in an interview with the newspaper VZGLYAD.

Front-line bombers with the wing of the variable sweep Su-24 were adopted by the Soviet army in 1975. A number of experts call this aircraft a difficult machine to operate.

The Honored Military Pilot (1st class), a participant in the hostilities, Major General Vladimir Popov remarked in an interview with the newspaper VZGLYAD:

[Topotun]

Come on, according to media reports (it’s really possible and more), the Russian Aerospace Forces completed more than 23000 sorties in Syria. And for this time no more than two or three combat vehicles were lost. In my opinion, a VERY good indicator, including the organization of work of the videoconferencing. With such intensive work, even simply because of a malfunction, much more equipment can fail ...

[dzvero]

I agree. Just failures happened somehow "heap."

[bald]

My condolences to the family and friends ....

[vlad007]

I would like to know more about the load on crews and maintenance personnel - how many departures per day, what kind of departure was this, etc. Rest in peace.

[Stas157]

Quote: vlad007

I would like to know more about the load on crews and maintenance personnel - how many departures per day, what kind of departure was this, etc.

And you go to the FSB department and take an interest. They will be happy to tell you!))
In fact, it’s also interesting to know. Previously, regularly reported and showed all the details, the number of aircraft, etc. And now, something ceased to give Old. But, somewhere it flickered that already 80% of the flight crew had been driven through Syria. Which is very cool.

[okko077]

Below is a comment within the permitted ...

[Bronevick]

Variable wing sweep insidious thing

[Awaz]

After all, we most likely do not have very humanistic instructions. Probably the crew tried to fix their joint or simply did not want to have big troubles for themselves in the future, from this they tried to take off in any way. Ejection at the start, and probably even with a breakdown in flights, is not in their favor, in the future it might not bode well .. I won’t say that death is better than shame, but most likely there was a hope to take off ..

[Romario_Argo]

it's all sabotage by the CIA: sabotage, bribery and betrayal
mortar shelling of our officers, an ambush on PMC employees, then those Mi-28 malfunctions, now Su-24

[pvv113]

okko077,
Where did you get so smart from? After serving three days in aviation, put yourself on a par with the General Designer

[NN52]

I guess that he’s just many many years ...... And usually the engineer of the regiment from the specialty SD was ...

[pvv113]

Quote: NN52

he just many many years

Or vice versa - too little. I, too, was a senior engineer on SD-TB. But it wasn’t customary for us to put ourselves on a pedestal, declaring others incompetent

[NN52]

No offense about diabetes .... Boiling ....

[pvv113]

Maslopup - sounds proud!

[NN52]

He always respected the technical staff. My father was an airplane technician 25 and ex-father-in-law 31 ...
THANKS TO YOU.

[pvv113]

Best wishes to you!

[WUA 518]

Quote: pvv113

Maslopup - sounds proud!

Without the permission of the technician, even the Minister of Defense has no right to sit in the cab!
So the technician is the master of the plane, without anyone there!
Well, the traditional touch of the console.

[pvv113]

Our senior ship technician was called the director of the aviation complex

[WUA 518]

Quote: pvv113

Our senior ship technician was called the director of the aviation complex

Our engineer for the REO regiment was a legendary person. At first, he fought hard against dandruff, got to the point that he was bald
And the second was a connoisseur of radio exchange. And if he was recorded on the UPC, the flight management group literally hung himself from his bubbling
-Installed radio!
As a result, they called the PU IAS, put everyone in a pose of deep raskiniya, threatened with punishment, and begged to take this demon!

[okko077]

Guess further ... In the bap on the SU-24 senior engineers are in all major specialties. After the transition from squadrons to units, they also remained, the name of the post has changed a little ... I am in the AO ... no need to boil ... Which “pedestal” - “pedestal of amateurs”?

[panzerfaust]

The crew did not have time to eject ..... this is how? If the plane obviously does not take off, and the gdp ends, the voice informant warns, are they suicides ??? Maybe they set it up?

[NN52]

okko077,
WAS YOU EXACTLY IN THE AIRCRAFT?

[NN52]

okko077,
When did you retire?

[NN52]

okko077,
Sorry, but this is nonsense ....

[Maz]

No need la la, my RF daily reports on the number of aircraft take-offs. They also boasted not cleverly that pilots make up to five sorties a day. Stupidity. This pace can be maintained for a week, two months, well, three on tablets, a maximum of six months, the equipment is also not iron. And the technical composition is not made of a nanotube. Soap the neck to everyone who allowed such stupidity. And remove shoulder straps. This is stupid heroism.

[NN52]

Sorry, what are you talking about?

[okko077]

This is an opus ... the Su-24 is an old front-line bomber and has been preparing for a very long time for a sortie and a second one. During the time allotted for flights, or rather flight time (the pilots will correct), the crew will make no more than 2 sorties ... 2 crews can be assigned to such an airplane ... Do not worry about all the basic rules and laws, even when conducting military operations, respected ... Do not "drive the wave" ...

[WUA 518]

Quote: okko077

, more precisely flight time (

Flight shift.
Flight time, or flight time, is calculated from the moment the engine starts, and ends after
taxiing from the runway to taxiing.

[okko077]

No, not that, flight time for a pilot is less than a flight shift, for a su-24 flight shift is 7 hours usually ... One pilot cannot take off in the 1st minute in 1 departure and board in the last minute of the flight shift in 2 departure, they have some kind of restriction and it depends on the class .. Maybe NN52 will tell?

[WUA 518]

Quote: okko077

No, not that

Sorry, apparently I just misunderstood you.
Number of flights and total flight shift per crew
when performing flights according to the flight training plan, KBP is determined, taking into account the complexity of tasks, meteorological conditions, the level of professional training, the pilot's training and his individual qualities. Suppose in training regiments flight personnel flight flight shift should not exceed:
in the afternoon in simple meteorological conditions on aircraft with one control - 4 hours 30 minutes, on aircraft with dual control - 5 hours 30 minutes;
in difficult daytime and at night in simple weather conditions - 4 and 5 hours, respectively.

And one more feature:
Maximum air raid using systems (devices)
night vision on a flight shift should not exceed 3 hours, in one
flight - no more than 2 hours (at extremely low altitude - no more than 1
hours).

[NN52]

Guys, it's a little bit wrong ....
The departure time is considered from the moment the start of the take-off and ends at the moment of touching the strip (everything was recorded by the timekeeper on the UPC).
8 hour shift (can be day, night or day-night), in the planning table for each aircraft an average of 4-5 sorties.
The amount of the pilot's raid per shift was correct; it was according to KBP.
It doesn’t matter how many sorties the pilot made, at least 5, and everything in circles, but the main thing is that the time does not exceed the shift set for him in the KBP.
And yet, the change of day with the transition to night, September, the beginning of 14.00, the end of 22.00, - we take off at exactly 14.00 - the first departure is daytime, somewhere around 15.30 the second daytime (30 minutes before sunset, the diaries should be on the ground). And the third night flight - we touch the strip at 21.59. In our aviation, planes are not specifically assigned to the pilots, as in the planned schedule, on such a board you will fly ...

And the guys there are flying really muchooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

And no offense, on the KDP (CKP) there is only a leadership group, outsiders are forbidden to ... all in their jobs ... and it’s far from however on the central heating center ...

And what are such night vision devices?

It seems that he wrote everything correctly ... retired after all, already .... could have forgotten something ,,,

[Nemesis]

There may be two reasons. 1) Depreciation of equipment, the aircraft is frankly old and rather worn out. 2) Conscious sabotage of technical staff. In 2008, the FSB of the Russian Federation for spying for Georgia was detained a colonel of the armed forces of the Russian Federation, Georgians by nationality ... And how many more, such colonels ....