Military Review

Who killed the legendary Chapai?

81
Vasily Ivanovich Chapaev is one of the most tragic and mysterious figures of the Civil War in Russia. This is due to the mysterious death of the famous red commander. So far, the discussion about the circumstances of the murder of the legendary starter does not abate. The official Soviet version of Vasily Chapayev’s death states that the division commander, who, by the way, was only 32, was killed in the Urals by white Cossacks from the consolidated unit of 2 division of Colonel Sladkov and 6 of colonel Borodin. The famous Soviet writer Dmitry Furmanov, who once served as political commissar of the “Chapayev” 25 Infantry Division, in his most famous book “Chapayev” told that the divisional division died allegedly in the waves of the Urals.




First, about the official version of the death of Chapaev. He died 5 September 1919 of the year on the Ural front. Shortly before Chapayev’s death, the 25 Infantry Division, under his command, received an order from the commander of the Turkestan Front, Mikhail Frunze, about active actions on the left bank of the Urals in order to prevent active interaction between the Ural Cossacks and the armed formations of the Kazakh Alash Orda. The headquarters of the Chapayev division was at that time in the county town of Lbishchensk. There were also controls, including the Tribunal and the Revolutionary Committee. The city was protected by 600 people from the division school, and unarmed and untrained mobilized peasants were in the city. Under these conditions, the Ural Cossacks decided to abandon a frontal attack on the positions of the Reds and make a raid on Lbishchensk instead, in order to immediately defeat the division headquarters. The combined group of the Ural Cossacks, aimed at defeating the Chapayev headquarters and destroying Vasily Chapaev personally, was led by Colonel Nikolai Nikolayevich Borodin, commander of the 6 Division of the Ural Separate Army.

The Cossacks of Borodino were able to approach Lbishchensk, remaining unnoticed by the red. They succeeded due to timely shelter in the reeds in the natural boundary Kuzda-Gora. At 3 in the morning of September 5, the division launched an offensive against Lbishchensk from the west and north. The 2 Division of Colonel Timofey Ippolitovich Sladkov moved from the south to Lbishchensk. For the Reds, the situation was complicated by the fact that both divisions of the Ural Army were manned in the bulk by the Cossacks - Lbishchensk natives, who were well oriented on the terrain and could successfully operate in the vicinity of the town. The surprise attack also played into the hands of the Ural Cossacks. The Red Army soldiers immediately began to surrender, only some units tried to resist, but without success.



Local residents - the Ural Cossacks and Cossacks - also actively helped their fellow countrymen from the “Borodino” division. For example, the Cossacks were given a commissioner of the 25 Division, Baturin, who was trying to hide in a furnace. About where he climbed, said the hostess, where he lodged. Cossacks from the division of Borodin staged a massacre of prisoners of the Red Army. At least 1500 Red Army men were killed, 800 Red Army men remained in captivity. To capture the commander of the 25 division of Vasily Chapaev, Colonel Borodin formed a special platoon of the best-trained Cossacks, who were commanded by a subordinate Belonozhkin. The people of Belonozhkin calculated the house where Chapaev lodged and attacked him. However, the chief managed to jump out the window and run to the river. Along the way, he collected the remnants of the Red Army - about a hundred people. The squad had a machine gun and Chapaev organized the defense.

The official version states that it was during this retreat that Chapaev died. None of the Cossacks, however, could find his body, despite the reward promised for “Chapai’s head”. What happened to the beginning? According to one version, he drowned in the Ural River. According to another - the wounded Chapaev was placed by two Hungarians - Red Army men on a raft and transported across the river. However, during the crossing, Chapaev died from blood loss. Hungarian Red Army men buried him in the sand and showered the grave with reeds.

By the way, Colonel Nikolai Borodin himself also died in Lbishchensk, and on that very day, as Vasily Chapaev. When the colonel was driving down the street in a car, Red Army soldier Volkov, who was hiding in a haystack, served in the protection of the 30 squadron, killed a commander of the 6 division in the back. The body of the colonel was taken to the village of Kalyany of the Ural region, where he was buried with military honors. Posthumously, Nikolai Borodin was given the rank of Major General, therefore in many publications he passes as “General Borodin”, although during the assault Lbishchensk was still a colonel.

In fact, the death of a military commander during the Civil War was not something extraordinary. However, in Soviet times, a kind of cult of Vasily Chapaev was created, which was recalled and revered much more than many other prominent red commanders. Who, for example, besides professional historians stories The civil war today says something about the name of Vladimir Azin - the commander of the 28 Infantry Division, who was captured by white and brutally murdered (according to some sources, even torn alive, being tied to two trees or, according to another version, to two horses)? But during the years of the Civil War, Vladimir Azin was no less famous and successful commander than Chapaev.

First of all, we recall that during the Civil War or immediately after it ended, a whole series of red commanders died, and the most charismatic and talented, who enjoyed great popularity "among the people", but were very skeptical of the party leadership. Not only Chapaev, but also Vasily Kikvidze, Nikolay Shchors, Nestor Kalandarishvili and some other red warlords died under very strange circumstances. This gave rise to a fairly widespread version that the Bolsheviks themselves were behind their deaths, who were dissatisfied with the “departure from the party line” of the listed commanders. Both Chapaev, Kikvidze, Kalandarishvili, Shchors, and Kotovsky were from the Social Revolutionary and anarchist circles, which the Bolsheviks then perceived as dangerous rivals in the struggle to lead the revolution. The Bolshevik leadership did not trust such popular commanders with a “wrong” past. They were associated by party leaders with “partisan” and “anarchy”, were perceived as people who were unable to obey and very dangerous. For example, Nestor Makhno also once was a red commander, but then again spoke out against the Bolsheviks and turned into one of the most dangerous opponents of the Reds in New Russia and Little Russia.

Who killed the legendary Chapai? It is known that Chapaev had repeated conflicts with the commissioners. Actually, due to the conflicts, Dmitry Furmanov and 25 left the division, by the way, he is a former anarchist. The reasons for the conflict between the commander and the commissioner lay not only in the “managerial” plane, but also in the sphere of intimate relations. Chapaev began to show too persistent signs of attention to Anna Furmanov’s wife, who complained to her husband, who openly expressed his dissatisfaction with Chapaev and quarreled with the commander. An open conflict began, which led to Furmanov leaving the post of division commissar. In that situation, the command decided that Chapaev — a more valuable cadre as division commander than Furmanov — as commissar.

Interestingly, after the death of Chapaev, it was Furmanov who wrote a book about the beginning of the book, in many ways laying the foundation for the subsequent popularization of Chapaev as a hero of the Civil War. Quarrels with the chief did not prevent his former commissioner from maintaining respect for the figure of his commander. The book "Chapaev" was really successful work of Furmanov as a writer. She drew the attention of the entire young Soviet Union to the figure of the red commander, especially since in 1923, the memories of the Civil War were very fresh. It is possible that if it were not for the work of Furmanov, then Chapaev’s name would have suffered the fate of the names of other famous red commanders of the Civil War - only professional historians and residents of their native places would have remembered him.

Chapaev has three children left - daughter Claudius (1912-1999), sons Arkady (1914-1939) and Alexander (1910-1985). After the death of his father, they remained with his grandfather, Vasily Ivanovich's father, but he soon died. The children came to shelters. They were remembered only after the book by Dmitry Furmanov was published in 1923. After this event, the former commander of the Turkestan Front, Mikhail Frunze, became interested in Chapaev’s children. Alexander Vasilievich Chapaev graduated from a technical school and worked as an agronomist in the Orenburg region, but after military service he entered a military school. By the beginning of the Second World War, he served as a captain in the Podolsk Artillery School, went to the front, after the war, served in artillery in command positions and rose to the rank of major general, deputy artillery commander of the Moscow Military District. Arkady Chapaev became a military pilot, commanded the aviazven, but died in 1939 year as a result of a plane crash. Klavdiya Vasilyevna graduated from the Moscow Food Institute, then worked on party work.

Meanwhile, there appeared another version that contradicted the official one, about the circumstances of Vasily Chapayev’s death, more precisely, about the motives for issuing the location of the red commander. She was sounded in 1999 by the correspondent of “Arguments and Facts” daughter of Vasily Ivanovich - 87-year-old Klavdia Vasilyevna still alive at that time. She believed that the stepmother of the second wife of Vasily Ivanovich Pelageya Kameshkertsev was the culprit of the death of her father, the famous superintendent. Allegedly, she betrayed Vasily Ivanovich with the artillery warehouse chief Georgy Zhivolozhinov, but was exposed by Chapaev. The commanders arranged a tough showdown for his wife, and Pelagia, in retaliation, brought the whites into the house, where the red commander was hiding. At the same time she acted from the momentary emotions, not counting the consequences of her act and even, most likely, simply without thinking with her head.

Of course, such a version during the Soviet era could not be announced. After all, she would question the image of the hero created, showing that in his family not alien to "mere mortals" passions like adultery and subsequent female revenge took place. At the same time, Klavdiya Vasilievna did not question the version that Chapaev had been transported through the Urals by the Red Army men who had buried his body in the sand. This version, by the way, in no way contradicts the fact that Pelageya could get out of Chapaev’s house and “surrender” his whereabouts to white. By the way, Pelagia Kameshkertseva herself was already placed in a psychiatric hospital in Soviet times, and therefore even if her fault in Chapaev’s death was found out, they wouldn’t bring her to justice. The fate of George Zhivolozhinova also developed tragically - he was placed in the camp for agitating the kulaks against the Soviet power.

Meanwhile, the version of his wife - a traitor to many seems unlikely. First of all, it is unlikely that whites would begin to talk to the wife of the red nazdiva, and the more they would believe her. Secondly, Pelageya herself would hardly have ventured to go to the whites, since she could fear reprisals. It is another matter if it was a “link” in the chain of treachery of the chief, which could be organized by its haters from the party apparatus. At that time, there was a rather tough confrontation between the “commissar” part of the Red Army, focused on Lev Trotsky, and the “commander” part, to which the whole glorious pleiad of red commanders who had emerged from the people belonged. And it was precisely the supporters of Trotsky who could, if not directly kill Chapaev with a shot in the back during a crossing over the Urals, so “substitute” him for the Cossacks' bullets.

The saddest thing is that Vasily Ivanovich Chapaev, really a combat and honored commander, no matter how you feel about him, in the late Soviet and post-Soviet times completely undeservedly became a character in completely stupid jokes, humorous stories and even TV shows. Their authors mocked the tragic death of this man, the circumstances of his life. Chapaev was portrayed as a narrow-minded man, although it was unlikely that such a character as the hero of anecdotes could not only lead the division of the Red Army, but even in tsarist times to advance to Feldwebel title. Although the sergeant-major was not an officer, only the best of the soldiers who could command were the most intelligent, and the bravest in wartime. By the way, Vasily Chapaev received the title of junior non-commissioned officer, and senior non-commissioned officer, and sergeant major in the First World War. In addition, he was wounded more than once - under Tsumany his arm tendon was smashed, then, returning to the ranks, he was wounded again - with shrapnel in his left leg.

The nobility of Chapaev as a person is fully demonstrated by the story of his life with Pelageya Kameshkertseva. When during the First World War, Chapaev’s friend Peter Kameshkertsev was killed in battle, Chapaev gave the word to take care of his children. He came to the widow of Peter Pelagia and informed her that she alone would not be able to take care of Peter's daughters, so he would take them to the house of his father, Ivan Chapaev. But Pelageya decided to come together with Vasily Ivanovich herself so as not to part with the children.

George Knight completed field sergeant Major Vasily Ivanovich Chapaev World War I, surviving in battles with the Germans. And the Civil War brought him death - at the hands of his countrymen, and maybe those whom he considered to be his comrades.
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  1. elenagromova
    elenagromova 10 October 2017 07: 20
    +9
    Surprised not article ... Surprised the author's name under it ...
    I am often inspired by the likes of your articles, I will like and continue (hopefully). But just this one - I can’t put a plus, forgive me ...
  2. elenagromova
    elenagromova 10 October 2017 07: 22
    +1
    Although, of course, about jokes correctly said.
    1. antivirus
      antivirus 10 October 2017 11: 32
      +1
      father studied at Yves Energy Inst and "lived, 3 students in an apartment in 52-55 years, on the Worker Village", it is nearby. "The owner of the house was Konnik-Chapaevite, came with Furmanov, Ivanovo weavers"
      There were 2 rooms in the house, in one of the owners (I remember by association that Gorky’s grandfather and grandmother are small. Puny (?) As it should be for a jockey rider — it’s easier for a horse, a grandmother is a large, tall, high-born), 2 sons grew up and lived separately already, their room was rented out. in 55 g, dormitories were built on the Paris Commune, and resettled there.
      I didn’t write it down and, after several years, I forgot the names of the owners of the square.
      "He said," they did everything right. so now we live like that. "I understand how --- I was pleased with my life in the 50s and my life.

      father showed
      GESTURE (ALL YOUR (them) HATE AND ALL RUSSIAN 20 CENTURY) ------

      !!! fist from chest level vertically down, like a saber from a saddle on foot !!!
      1. rumatam
        rumatam 11 October 2017 20: 29
        +4
        he himself understood what he wrote? Fist, jockey ..... nonsense.
  3. Conductor
    Conductor 10 October 2017 07: 36
    +6
    Whatever it was, this is our story, and this is not ebn, gaydary, chubais and other mu and pu, although this is history.
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 10 October 2017 07: 40
    +5
    .. About Nestor Kalandarishvili, the film was shot in series, was shown on TV in the early 80s, and about Azin and Kikvidze could be read in children's books on the civil war ...
    1. rumatam
      rumatam 11 October 2017 20: 31
      +1
      .A film about Nestor Kalandarishvili was shot, but not a multi-part one, you made a mistake and the screen one is called "Siberian Grandfather".
  5. sergo1914
    sergo1914 10 October 2017 07: 41
    10
    "Cossacks from the Borodin division staged a massacre of captured Red Army soldiers. At least 1500 Red Army soldiers were killed."

    White terror? Not. Have not heard about this.

    According to Azin.
    "In February 1920, the 28th division crossed the Manych River. On February 17, V. M. Azin, with the division commissar Stelmakh and a group of scouts, rode on horseback to the forward positions to determine the situation (reconnaissance). During the survey, they encountered a group of White Cossacks. from the chase, Azin fired back from a revolver, but when jumping through a small ravine, the horse's girth burst, Azin fell and was taken prisoner.
    The Red Army command offered the exchange of a divisional commander for several captive generals. The commander of the 10th Army A.V. Pavlov broadcast a warning on the radio: “If anything happens to Azin, appropriate repressions will be applied to the first ten officers held captive by him with the rank of colonel or higher.” He was offered the rank of General of the Volunteer Army. He refused, as he refused and signed an appeal to the Red Army. [2]. However, after his captivity over printed units of the Red Army on the Don and Kuban, scattered copies of the allegedly written appeal to the Red Army with an appeal to end the Civil War and make peace with the Cossacks were scattered from the airplanes (the contents of this appeal are set out in the book of G. N. Rakovsky “In the camp of the whites” )
    The time, place and circumstances of the death of V. M. Azin have not been reliably established. According to the official version [3], division commander Azin was tortured and executed (according to one version, he was tied to two horses and torn apart, according to the other, he was tied to two bent trees and then torn apart, according to the third, he was hanged, and according to the fourth, he was shot) and was buried at the local cemetery in the village of Tikhoretskaya (now Fastovetskaya). "

    Noble, what is there ...

    PS The film "Chapaev" is included in the mandatory program for the celebration of the Great October Socialist Revolution Day.
    1. ICT
      ICT 10 October 2017 07: 56
      0
      surviving battles with the Germans.

    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 10 October 2017 11: 02
      +6
      Quote: sergo1914
      White terror? Not. Have not heard about this.

      Have you heard about red?
      1. rumatam
        rumatam 11 October 2017 20: 34
        +1
        NOT, but what did you participate?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 12 October 2017 08: 11
          +3
          Quote: rumatam
          NOT, but what did you participate?

          Not a member, did not participate, and was not involved. request
    3. verner1967
      verner1967 10 October 2017 15: 11
      +2
      Quote: sergo1914
      Noble, what is there ...

      That the first case, that the second is the version of the Reds, is written. And you need to believe the facts, not the versions. There was a lot of cruelty on both sides. It would not have been better this war. Better yet, what would not happen second
      1. alstr
        alstr 11 October 2017 12: 45
        +2
        In fact, to understand roughly what was happening then you just need to carefully read The Quiet Don.
        To be honest, I do not understand how Stalin missed him, but at one time I was somewhat shocked to read it.
        1. unknown
          unknown 14 October 2017 11: 04
          0
          Serafimovich is a talented writer.
    4. Weyland
      Weyland 10 October 2017 22: 32
      +1
      Quote: sergo1914
      He was offered the rank of General of the Volunteer Army. He refused, as he refused, and to sign an appeal to the Red Army.
      The time, place and circumstances of the death of V. M. Azin have not been reliably established... According to the official version [3], division chief Azin was tortured, was executed (according to one version, he was tied to two horses and torn apart, according to the other, he was tied to two bent trees and then torn apart, in the third - hanged, in the fourth - shot

      The truth is somewhere nearby ... Cossacks (both white and red) were still scumbags - so if he got caught by white Cossacks - they could break both horses and tie them to two trees. But - right after the capture, not offering any alternative! But if he, as a valuable prisoner, was handed over "where necessary" - they could offer the rank of General of the Volunteer Army, but after the refusal - most likely, they shot him (they could hang him only if he was involved in special atrocities).
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 11 October 2017 06: 02
        0
        Quote: Weyland
        Cossacks (that white, that red) were still scumbags

        Well pleased, my great-grandfather will probably tell you in the next world .. although he mostly fought with the Yap ...
        1. Weyland
          Weyland 12 October 2017 00: 39
          +1
          From time immemorial, the Cossacks were unbridled courage - but also brutal cruelty! Will you deny it? "You are Cossacks, you have no pity!" (Sholokhov, "Quiet Don")
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 13 October 2017 07: 17
            0
            But Gabriel Myasnikov was a Cossack? And Kolchak? And Leva Bronstein?
          2. unknown
            unknown 14 October 2017 11: 05
            0
            More precisely, Serafimovich "Quiet Don".
    5. mvbmvbmvb
      mvbmvbmvb 22 July 2018 23: 42
      0
      And what did the child of perestroika and EG hear about?
  6. Amurets
    Amurets 10 October 2017 08: 25
    +2
    Meanwhile, there appeared another version that contradicted the official one, about the circumstances of Vasily Chapayev’s death, more precisely, about the motives for issuing the location of the red commander. She was sounded in 1999 by the correspondent of “Arguments and Facts” daughter of Vasily Ivanovich - 87-year-old Klavdia Vasilyevna still alive at that time. She believed that the stepmother of the second wife of Vasily Ivanovich Pelageya Kameshkertsev was the culprit of the death of her father, the famous superintendent. Allegedly, she betrayed Vasily Ivanovich with the artillery warehouse chief Georgy Zhivolozhinov, but was exposed by Chapaev. The commanders arranged a tough showdown for his wife, and Pelagia, in retaliation, brought the whites into the house, where the red commander was hiding. At the same time she acted from the momentary emotions, not counting the consequences of her act and even, most likely, simply without thinking with her head.

    On TV, I don’t remember exactly what year, in the program “Look” Chapaev’s daughter voiced this version, but without mentioning Pelageya Kameshkertseva as a traitor. In that program everything was as it was written in this article.
    The main reason that the grave of V.I. Chapaev was called the flood, which eroded the bank of the Ural River. I don’t remember who already was the host of that program, I don’t remember, it seems D. Zakharov or A. Politkovsky.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 10 October 2017 09: 15
      +2
      Indeed, there was a program on TV, where they voiced this version. I was at work, and my family watched and retold me.
  7. Basil50
    Basil50 10 October 2017 08: 44
    13
    About the fact that after the Civil War the red commanders began to kill * their * author repeated for those who fled abroad, to the owners. In Europe it was fashionable to shoot diplomats of RED RUSSIA, and they also explained this * by internal showdowns *. But only who contained all these * dissatisfied * with weapons or with writing abilities? The Poles on their territory created the army of the invasion of Bulak-Balakhovich and began the war. But when the gang was defeated immediately declared this army and the invasion * private initiative *. In Central Asia, with the money of the British * Basmachi frolic *. And all this is still trying to explain * internal disassembly *, and not by mercenary.
    Gangs, gangsters and criminals * frolic * until they began to shoot. When * worse * they were all immediately credited to * political *. So these bandits are today * political *. And if you believe people like the author, then all of them are from something dissatisfied * former associates *.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 10 October 2017 09: 36
      +5
      Basil, regarding the basmachi: there was a program at the TVC where they told how the English supplied the basmachis.
      About Bulk Balakhovich is also true, but to declare that the authorities were not involved, etc. general practice.
      Regarding the death of Schors, in the eighties, somewhere there was a publication. By the way, Leiba Bronstein himself subsequently confirmed that he had “removed” the bright military.
      With the death of Kotovsky there is too much turbidity to believe in the official version. It is known that M.V. Frunze requested the case to Moscow, apparently doubted that everything was clean
      1. Curious
        Curious 10 October 2017 10: 35
        +3
        The place where Kotovsky was killed was located on the territory of our unit. Then the village was called Chabanka. There was a house museum there. I served there in 1984. And then there were many versions of Kotovsky’s murder, which were voiced “privately” by his employees. There was even a version that Frunze planned to appoint him as his deputy. True, Frunze himself survived Kotovsky for a couple of months. Maybe Voroshilov "cleared" his way?
        1. jjj
          jjj 10 October 2017 11: 01
          +4
          Somehow, information slipped that all these red commanders who died after the war were from Stalin’s “support group”
      2. creak
        creak 10 October 2017 11: 03
        +2
        Quote: Monarchist
        With the death of Kotovsky too much turbidity,

        A lot of turbidity and the death of Mironov and Dumenko - what would happen to Chapaev himself and to survive? He would not share the fate of other well-known figures of the civil war - Blucher, Dybenko and others ...
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 11 October 2017 02: 39
          +1
          Quote: ranger
          Quote: Monarchist
          With the death of Kotovsky too much turbidity,

          A lot of turbidity and the death of Mironov and Dumenko - what would happen to Chapaev himself and to survive? He would not share the fate of other well-known figures of the civil war - Blucher, Dybenko and others ...

          Well, all in a bunch. Where is Mironov, and where is Blucher.
      3. mat-vey
        mat-vey 10 October 2017 11: 59
        +5
        Quote: Monarchist
        By the way, Leiba Bronstein himself subsequently confirmed that he had “removed” the bright military.

        Well, no wonder it means his ice ax ....
        1. captain
          captain 10 October 2017 19: 03
          +3
          Quote: mat-vey
          Quote: Monarchist
          By the way, Leiba Bronstein himself subsequently confirmed that he had “removed” the bright military.

          Well, no wonder it means his ice ax ....

          Shame on you, comrade. Trotsky was one of those few who supported Lenin's idea of ​​an armed uprising in October. Are you against the October Revolution?
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 10 October 2017 19: 05
            +5
            And for what purpose are you interested in? Trotskyist?
            1. Mavrikiy
              Mavrikiy 11 October 2017 02: 45
              +1
              Quote: mat-vey
              And for what purpose are you interested in? Trotskyist?

              No. He just writes an opera ... To write about you?
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 11 October 2017 06: 04
                +2
                Write - no matter how I revealed the Trotskyist ...
            2. captain
              captain 11 October 2017 21: 53
              +3
              Quote: mat-vey
              And for what purpose are you interested in? Trotskyist?

              No, I’m just reminding the rabid Leninists like you that Trotsky supported Lenin in everything. This was his Stalin who corrected the trochs. My opinion is right; Leninists did more harm than good for Russia.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 13 October 2017 07: 20
                0
                But Stalin does not mean "Leninist"?
              2. unknown
                unknown 14 October 2017 11: 08
                0
                Nikolai Lenin, aka Karpov, was killed in 1918. Researchers distinguish eight (!) Different "Ilyichs" on preserved photos and film materials.
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 14 October 2017 12: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: ignoto
                  Nikolai Lenin, aka Karpov, was killed in 1918. Researchers distinguish eight (!) Different "Ilyichs" on preserved photos and film materials.

                  You know, and if you take more children's photos, you can distinguish even more.
    2. mat-vey
      mat-vey 10 October 2017 11: 56
      +1
      I’m wondering, but about the Slashchev mentioned by the author that he would “whip” ... Slashchev at the “academy" probably got Chapai for execution ...
      1. creak
        creak 10 October 2017 13: 23
        +2
        Quote: mat-vey
        I’m wondering, but about the Slashchev mentioned by the author that he would “whip” ... Slashchev at the “academy" probably got Chapai for execution ...

        But I’m wondering, Slashchev, who fought on South and Crimea under the command of Denikin and Wrangel, what does he have to do with the death of Chapaev in the Urals? Can you open this hitherto unknown page of the Civil War for us? ... Unfortunately, the author has nothing about this and about Slashchev ....
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 10 October 2017 13: 28
          +1
          Then a little Slushchev and Sladkov got stupid, but Slashchev seemed to even fight on the other side, and somehow the bloody Bolsheviks built him to teach themselves ..
      2. ilyaros
        11 October 2017 08: 21
        +2
        Timofey Ippolitovich SladDkov - Colonel, Ural Cossack. He did not study in any academies of the Reds, managed to get to Persia with a small detachment in 1920 and then lived his whole life in emigration, he died almost 40 years later, at 1956 in Paris. Strange phrases, dear, "that the author will weave." First you need to figure out who they are. Moreover, Sladkov is not so rare a surname that only one member of the Civil War can wear it.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 11 October 2017 08: 29
          0
          Quote: mat-vey
          mat-vey 2 Yesterday, 13:28 PM ↑
          Then a little Slushchev and Sladkov got stupid, but Slashchev seemed to even fight on the other side, and somehow the bloody Bolsheviks built him to teach themselves ..

          Hug you? Or, as an option to the doctor an ophthalmologist ...
  8. captain
    captain 10 October 2017 18: 58
    +4
    I liked the article, although someone wrote about Chapaev not as an icon or a near man, but before us appeared a normal Russian peasant who laid down his life for Soviet power.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 10 October 2017 19: 59
      +4
      He was a very intelligent commander. His division was unusually "mechanized": it had armored cars, cars, and even reconnaissance aircraft.
      No wonder the White Guards made a special "special forces" raid to eliminate Chapaev.
      1. Bumblebee_3
        Bumblebee_3 10 October 2017 21: 13
        +2
        voyaka uh. Totally agree with you. Not for boasting, my grandfather served under the command of Chapaev. The film "Chapaev" he did not like, said that nonsense. He said that Chapaev had a Ford-T with a machine gun. And he said that there was a betrayal. And that when the whites attacked, they jumped out in only their underpants. He said that an intelligent man was Chapaev.
        1. your1970
          your1970 April 3 2018 08: 33
          0
          in the 20s a brochure was published (actually an investigation) - which described the battle and death of Chapaev in great detail. There is an Internet.
        2. Looking for
          Looking for April 19 2018 14: 37
          -1
          And how old are you that your grandfather fought with Chapaev. Even considering that he was in his youth, this is a minimum of 1900 year of birth.
          1. Bumblebee_3
            Bumblebee_3 April 19 2018 16: 57
            0
            The Seeker (Alexander) Today, 14:37
            Yes, already over 60! Passport photo, I hope you do not need to send? And my grandfather was born in 1894. Is this information enough for you?
  9. Karen
    Karen 10 October 2017 21: 57
    +1
    Who killed Chapaev, I knew from school. Classmate told :)
    Like ... schoolchildren are asked to invite their grandfathers to the dedication holiday in October. Well, the old people are welcomed, applause, squeals, clangs ... and asked to talk about their memories in the fighting of the revolution. A handsome grandfather Semyon enters the stage and tells:
    “Kolka and I are sitting on the shore, the machine gun is loaded, guarding our positions ... Suddenly Kolka sees - the enemy is in the river - and shouts in my ear“ Ruby, Semyon, the red bastard !!! ” a couple of days later they told me that it was Chapaev. "
    ______
    But Trotsky well done - bought for 20000 bucks defenders of the fatherland.
  10. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 10 October 2017 23: 15
    +3
    1. Unfortunately, many of our military leaders from the people often neglected their safety, and together with their headquarters broke away from the troops. So Parkhomenko, Chapaev, Kalandarashvili, and many other heroes died.
    2. Gossip about the death of Chapaev can not be counted. I believe that if Furmanov’s version were incorrect, then when he wrote his novel, and when the Vasiliev brothers made a film about Chapaev, there were still living witnesses of his death from both the red and white sides, they would certainly have protested this version and voiced how it was.
    3. But the anecdotes about Chapaev were not invented by the Soviet people, they were developed abroad, it was one of the components of the ideological sabotage of world imperialism against the USSR, whole institutions worked for it.
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 10 October 2017 23: 24
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Green
      But the jokes about Chapaev were not invented by the Soviet people.
      ... whole institutes worked for it.
      Oxford and Cambridge and a little in Sorbon engaged laughing laughing laughing
      Quote: Alexander Green
      witnesses of his death from both the red and the white sides, they would certainly have protested this version and voiced how it was.
      it's in the 30s laughing especially witnesses from the white side would voice laughing laughing Well, you burn today! good I got sick already
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 11 October 2017 22: 10
        +2
        Quote: verner1967
        Oxford and Cambridge and a little in Sorbon engaged

        You laugh in vain, you better think about it, before the start of perestroika there was a huge amount of political jokes. And after the start of perestroika, their number suddenly began to decrease sharply, and immediately after 1991 they practically disappeared.

        The question is, why? The reason is simple. Dozens of institutes worked against the USSR in the USA and other countries, which composed jokes about Brezhnev, Chapaev, etc.
        Among them:
        The Keston Institute, founded in 1969 in the UK as the Center for the Study of Religion and Communism, collected and disseminated data on the religious situation in the USSR and the countries of the socialist camp.
        Munich Institute for the Study of the History and Culture of the USSR - Worked in Munich in 1950-1972 against the USSR, founded by the second wave of Russian emigration.
        Massachusetts Institute (one of the leading universities in the USA, and the whole world), etc.
        Immediately after the task of destroying the geopolitical adversary was successfully completed. The USSR was completely defeated, so the need for writing jokes disappeared, because all this requires enormous funding.
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 12 October 2017 06: 10
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Green
          And after the start of perestroika, their number suddenly began to decrease sharply, and immediately after 1991 they practically disappeared.

          Have you heard such a saying, "Forbidden fruit is sweet"? Under the USSR, all the heroes of jokes were idols of ideology, pure and sinless. Then perestroika, glasnost and heroes turn out to be the same people as everyone, with all the advantages and disadvantages. That’s the whole explanation. For example, at least take jokes about khrushch and the absence of them about humpbacks and Yeltsin. And about Lieutenant Rzhevsky who composed jokes? Did we have similar institutes? I doubt it.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 12 October 2017 20: 31
            +2
            Quote: verner1967
            And about Lieutenant Rzhevsky who composed jokes? Did we have similar institutes? I doubt it.

            Again you with your cot, can you read? I wrote that anti-Soviet jokes (Rzhevsky, Soviet lieutenant?) Were invented abroad, they were used to denigrate our history, denigrate our leadership. Immigrants from Russia and the USSR of various times composed jokes and started dirty gossip. For the first time, most of the jokes about Vasily Ivanovitch were heard in the programs of Radio Liberty, and they were compiled by the NTS. It is a fact. And the forbidden fruit ... is sweet ... What kind of childhood?
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 12 October 2017 21: 33
              0
              Quote: Alexander Green
              For the first time, most of the jokes about Vasily Ivanovitch were heard in the programs of Radio Liberty, and they were compiled by the NTS. It is a fact.

              and this fact is supported by what, besides your emotions?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Rzhevsky what, the Soviet lieutenant?
              so I brought it as antagonism. If jokes about Chapaev
              Quote: Alexander Green
              used to denigrate our history, denigrate our leadership
              who was denigrated and, most importantly, who invented jokes about the lieutenant? I’m chewing on you, otherwise you can read, but most likely not think about what you read.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              For the first time most of the jokes "About Vasily Ivanovich"
              You see, at the dawn of perestroika-publicity, I bought a collection of jokes about Chapaev, such a little book, and the jokes were all of the same type, in different interpretations (instead of some heroes, Chapaev, Petka, Anka and Furmanov were substituted) and you want to say that Are these the fruits of the ten-year work of several institutes? Such a freebie I have not seen. laughing
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 12 October 2017 22: 37
                +2
                Quote: verner1967
                You see, at the dawn of perestroika-publicity, I bought a collection of jokes about Chapaev, such a little book, and the jokes were all of the same type, in different interpretations (instead of some heroes, Chapaev, Petka, Anka and Furmanov were substituted) and you want to say that Are these the fruits of the ten-year work of several institutes?

                You are probably an American, is it really not clear what I wrote about.
                I repeat that I wrote you comments in the past.
                "I wrote that anti-Soviet jokes (Rzhevsky what, the Soviet lieutenant?) Invented abroad, they were used to denigrate our history, denigrate our leadership. Immigrants from Russia and the USSR of different times composed jokes and launched dirty gossip.
                1. verner1967
                  verner1967 13 October 2017 07: 09
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  You are probably an American, is it really not clear what I wrote about.

                  I don’t know who you are, that you don’t understand what it is about, but before that you wrote
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Dozens of institutes worked against the USSR in the USA and other countries, which composed jokes about Brezhnev, Chapaev, etc.
                  and then some mythical ones were added to them
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Immigrants from Russia and the USSR of various times composed jokes and started dirty gossip.

                  why did they sprinkle so little in so many years?
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 13 October 2017 21: 19
                    +1
                    Quote: verner1967
                    why did they sprinkle so little in so many years?

                    The CIA posted on the Internet 775 thousand documents of its department with a total volume of about 13 million pages describing an ideological war with the USSR. Is this not enough for you?
                    1. verner1967
                      verner1967 14 October 2017 09: 08
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      The CIA posted on the Internet 775 thousand documents of its department with a total volume of about 13 million.

                      give a link to jokes, I read them at your leisure
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 14 October 2017 13: 11
                        0
                        Quote: verner1967
                        give a link to jokes, I read them at your leisure

                        http://rossaprimavera.ru/article/psihologicheskay
                        a-voyna-ssha-protiv-sssr-rassekrechennye-dokument
                        y-cru-i-gosdepa

                        https://books.google.com.ua/books?id=of5CP9wcUZgC
                        & pg = PT296 & lpg = PT296 & dq = cia + composes + a
                        nekdote + pro + chapaeva & source = bl & ots = gXyhwcx
                        Che & sig = OpTmQpKQ

                        https://thequestion.ru/questions/206653/zachem-za
                        mglavy-cru-ponadobilis-sovetskie-anekdoty
  11. max73
    max73 11 October 2017 00: 47
    +5
    well and vyser))) what turned into ...
  12. DimanC
    DimanC 11 October 2017 04: 04
    +1
    Somewhere on the same site there was another article about Chapaev. There it was said in more detail that the Reds had air reconnaissance, but she "did not notice" the whites in the reeds (an assumption based on the subsequent transition of these aviators to white). Well, plus, do not forget that the Reds are not only Bolsheviks, but also Trotskyists. It was with their hands that they killed including, after the civil war, many good commanders.
    1. Looking for
      Looking for April 19 2018 14: 43
      -1
      Quote: DimanC
      It was with their hands that they killed including, after the civil war, many good commanders.

      Can you give a couple of examples? You can’t, there’s nothing to write.
  13. Fanatik
    Fanatik 11 October 2017 10: 50
    0
    A very interesting article, but the cult is controversial, as is the death of the commander.
  14. rexby63
    rexby63 11 October 2017 12: 16
    0
    came from the Socialist-Revolutionary and anarchist circles


    Chapaev?
  15. George Teptin
    George Teptin 11 October 2017 14: 19
    0
    Quote: jjj
    Somehow, information slipped that all these red commanders who died after the war were from Stalin’s “support group”

    Most likely, Leiba was safe.
  16. Vadim Sh.
    Vadim Sh. 13 October 2017 00: 16
    0
    Unfortunately, we do not know the truth, and there are dozens of death versions.
  17. verner1967
    verner1967 14 October 2017 16: 13
    0
    Alexander Green,
    The Americans admitted that in the Soviet KGB there is a unit that is engaged in the invention of jokes. .... Therefore, there is a suspicion that the CIA had such a unit, and they extrapolated it to the KGB.
    Is this, yes, a written art book and is your evidence? The second link is undoubtedly interesting, however, I knew a lot from it, we were given a course of lectures at the school about it.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 15 October 2017 12: 50
      0
      Quote: verner1967
      Is this, yes, a written art book and is your evidence? The second link is undoubtedly interesting, however, I knew a lot from it, we were given a course of lectures at the school about it.

      There are still a bunch of sites where this is said, and the Americans have not yet declassified everything:

      https://kp.ua/life/564406-kakye-anekdoty-o-sssr-p
      rydumyvaly-v-tsru

      http://onb2017.livejournal.com/49416.html

      https://russian.rt.com/world/news/351466-arhiv-cr
      u-sovetskie-anekdoty

      https://rossaprimavera.ru/news/antisovetskie-anek
      doty-obnaruzhilis-v-rassekrechennom-arhive-cru
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 15 October 2017 21: 00
        0
        Quote: Alexander Green
        There are also a bunch of sites where this is said, and the Americans have not yet declassified

        well, you see, this is all indirect evidence
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 15 October 2017 23: 07
          +1
          Quote: verner1967
          Quote: Alexander Green
          There are also a bunch of sites where this is said, and the Americans have not yet declassified

          well, you see, this is all indirect evidence

          Quote: verner1967
          well, you see, this is all indirect evidence

          What is the difference, the main thing is that an ideological war was fought against us by all means. Including jokes, and black humor, and books for children such as "Bad Advice" by Gregory Oster.
          1. Golovan Jack
            Golovan Jack 15 October 2017 23: 12
            +6
            Quote: Alexander Green
            an ideological war was fought against us by all means. Including jokes, and black humor, and books for children such as "Bad advice" by Gregory Oster

            Oster for what? belay
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 15 October 2017 23: 42
              +2
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Oster, why come here?

              And what does he teach there? request It would be better if "Entertaining Physics" was printed. More sense.
            2. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 16 October 2017 15: 00
              +1
              Quote: Golovan Jack
              Quote: Alexander Green
              an ideological war was fought against us by all means. Including jokes, and black humor, and books for children such as "Bad advice" by Gregory Oster

              Oster for what? belay

              And you read what he teaches: "A real boy should break a light bulb in the front door in the morning, pull a neighbor's girl by the pigtail, etc." This is such a pseudo-pedagogical method that supposedly those who read his books will do the opposite. You compare it with Mayakovsky, who wrote "What is good and what is bad"
          2. verner1967
            verner1967 16 October 2017 06: 03
            0
            Quote: Alexander Green
            What is the difference, the main thing is that an ideological war was fought against us by all means. Including jokes

            It was conducted, I do not argue, but they did not convince about jokes.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 16 October 2017 15: 02
              +1
              Quote: verner1967
              It was conducted, I do not argue, but they did not convince about jokes.

              On one of the sites, Americans from unzipped documents printed several pages of jokes about the USSR, lost their address, there is no time to search, look for yourself if this is so important for you.
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 17 October 2017 05: 52
                0
                Quote: Alexander Green
                look for yourself if this is so important to you.

                I did not expect another)))) These "American" jokes were sold at train stations in the 90s in the form of brochures, about which I wrote to you earlier.
                1. Looking for
                  Looking for April 19 2018 14: 59
                  -1
                  Dear, and you more thoughtfully read some paragraphs of this article by Polonsky. About how the Red Army soldier Volkov allegedly shot in the back (read, what a scoundrel this Red Army soldier), Colonel Borodin, who was subsequently buried with military honors (read - a brave military commander, a true hero). if you still don’t understand. that behind funny and seemingly harmless stories lies propaganda weapons. are you stupid or worse, a hidden enemy
  18. Elena Grichuk
    Elena Grichuk 12 February 2018 14: 54
    0
    And I expected that Furmanov would be the killer, because the fantasy of the bourgeois media is not limited by anything.
  19. Ivan dispossessed
    Ivan dispossessed 24 February 2018 23: 45
    0
    A good man was Vasily Ivanovich, talented ...... but !!! The result of it and others like it paved the way to power for the Chubais, Gaidars and other Furmans, and with power all the riches of Russia !! Civil war is a crime against the Russian people !!, and the participants are criminals!