Military Review

Mongol-Tatar yoke on the lands of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

58
Mongol-Tatar yoke on the lands of the Grand Duchy of LithuaniaIt is not difficult to see, now the favorite topic of Ukrainian propaganda, that Russians, they say, are Mongol-Tatars or something like Horde, Asians; and from this it follows that they are second-rate people with all the ensuing consequences. The charges are racist, fascist, coinciding with the stamps of Nazi propaganda, but willingly retransmitted by Russian liberals. And the basis for this sort of propaganda is the fact of the Mongol-Tatar yoke in Russia during the Middle Ages. (Immediately, I note that the rule of Europeans, of the same English, not only in India, but also in European Ireland, gives examples of cruelty, deceit, predation, robbery, to which Mongolian-Tatar conquerors cannot reach.


I have already touched on the absurdity of these accusations in my article in “What really was“ part of Asia, ”and what did not exist. A special piquancy to these charges is attached to the fact that they are put forward by representatives of the “Square”. But in the territory where Ukraine is now located, the Mongol-Tatar yoke caused maximum damage and left the hardest traces. Now I will not touch on the question of how much the Horde (where periods of the so-called barimty, “war of all against all”, with its raids, alternated with periods of strong power and proper robbery of a subjugated sedentary population) has influenced the political culture of Ukraine. I have so far compiled a small certificate on the topic of the Horde yoke in the lands of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the very ones where, after many centuries, the Ukrainian nation and Ukrainian statehood were formed ...

The territory of South and South-Western Russia in the early 40-ies. The 13 centuries underwent a Batu invasion - and here it turned out to be even more devastating and met with much weaker resistance than in North-Eastern Russia. The princes of South-West Russia, who, unlike the princes of North-Eastern Russia, did not give a single field battle to the conquerors, quickly recognized the authority of Karakorum, the great Khan, and then the Golden Horde. Including the famous Daniel Galitsky (then Volynsky), who preferred to leave for the time of the Batu invasions in Poland and Hungary, and in 1245 went to the Khan's headquarters to get a label on the Galician principality, which only after that became irrevocable for him. [1]

A characteristic feature of the yoke in South-Western Russia was the long direct rule of the khan's governors - in the Northeast, it was quickly curtailed due to the strong resistance of the cities, behind which the princes stood. Moreover, in the vast territories of South-Western Russia Tatar feudal lords directly roamed, which was not noted at all in the Northeast. VV Mavrodin writes: “During the 40-50-s, the whole Chernihiv-Seversk land and Pereyaslavl were captured by the Tatars, and Pereyaslavl apparently lost its independence and was directly dependent on the Tatars; in the city stood the Tatar chambul of Kuremsa (Kuremshy) ... Pereyaslavl turned into an outpost of the Tatar khan in the southern steppes; in his stronghold, from where the khan's governors ruled southern Rus ... Just as in some districts of the Right Bank, in the Pereyaslav land, Tatar officials and military leaders ruled the region, they themselves collected tribute, and perhaps made the population plow for themselves and sow the favorite Tatars millet ... Considering that the Tatars really turned part of the left bank lands into pastures, the other part, having bled and devastated it, completely subjugated itself, we conclude that there is a Tatar administrative system on Left Bank Ukraine ("t »m »") and Tatar feudal lords ... Part of the land in Posemye ... on 1278 was transferred directly to Temnik tempered. "[2]

Approximately a century later, these lands were included in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (GDL), mainly due to the military campaigns of the Lithuanian princes, already in the 40-s of the 13 century, engaged in raids on the Dnieper. [3] The lands of Vladimir-Volynsky, Galich and Kiev were attached to the GDL in 20-30-her years. 14 century. Volyn, Podolsk (together with Pereyaslavskaya) and Chernihiv-Seversk lands in 40-60 - its years. the same century. And on some Tatar feudal land tenure continued to exist - for example, on Sula, Psle and Vorskla (Circassians resettled from the Caucasus lived in Sniporod on the Sula river - did not they give the name "Cherkasy" to the population of the southern parts of the GDL, which they named in Russian documents 16-17 cc.).

Chronicle sources are fixed under 1331 for the year when the prince of Kiev, Fyodor of the Horde Baskak, who oversees the fulfillment of vassal and tributary obligations, is in Kiev. [4] The prince, along with Baskak, assiduously participated in the attacks on travelers, for example, on the Novgorod bishop Basil returning from Vladimir-Volynsky through Kiev. “Poih Basil the lord of the Metropolitan; Yako priiha under Chernigov, and that doctrine prince Fyodor of Kiev with the Baskak in fifty people rozboyom drove, and Novgorod was careful not to wrestle against himself, the evil didn’t do anything between them; but the prince took shame and othiha, nh from God, the penalty is not without refuge: having broken the horse of his. "[5]

The payment of tribute from the Kiev region continues in the second half of 14, 15 centuries. [6]. The city of Kiev itself, which received the name Mankerman from the eastern conquerors, was at the end of 14 c. under the direct control of the nomadic Bek-yaryk.

“Timur the conqueror ... heading against the right wing of the Juchi-Khan ulus, moved into that boundless steppe to the Uzi River (Dnieper) ... Reaching the Uzi River (Dnieper), he in the Mankerman area (Kiev) robbed Bek-Yaryk-Oglan and some of The people of the ulus of the Uzbek were there and conquered most of them, so that only a few people could escape with only one horse. ”[7]

“In pursuit of the right wing of enemy troops in the direction of the Uzi River, Timur again led a raid (ilgar) to the army and, reaching the Mankermen area on the side of the Uzi River, plundered the Bek-Yaryk region and all of their farms, except for the few who escaped.” [8 ]

M.K. Lyubavsky notes that at the end of the 14 century, Olgerd did not manage to “emancipate the Kiev region from the Tatars,” and “when the strong Khan's power was restored to the Horde and the strife stopped, Prince Vladimir Olgerdovich was still in the custom of paying tribute to them, and“ on the coins we meet Tatar tamga, which served as the usual expression of citizenship in relation to the Tatar khan. "[9]

“From the documentary evidence of a somewhat late time, it follows that the population of the Podolsk land continued to pay tribute to the Horde people,” and on the coins of Vladimir Olgerdovich there was a tamga, “a symbol of the supreme power of the khan.” [10]

The charter letter granted by Podolsky to the Lord Alexander Koriatovich Smotritsky Dominican Monastery of 17 in March 1375 announces the need for the monastery people to pay the Horde tribute: "If all the earthmen have a tribute from the Tatars, then the silver is also given to the people of the dati." [11]

In the diplomatic documents of the Order, the princes of South-Western Russia, who accepted the citizenship of Lithuania, like the Lithuanian princes themselves, are called Horde tributarii, that is, tributaries. [12]

A direct confirmation of the tribute paid to the Horde is the label of the Great Khan Toktamysh to the Grand Duke of Lithuania Jagiello from 1392-1393: “Gathering outlets from the citizens to us, delivering ambassadors to the treasury”. [13]

Thus, having seized the lands of South-Western Russia, the Lithuanian princes began to collect and give to the Horde a tribute, called, as in North-Eastern Russia, “exit”. And the payment of tribute is the most important sign of the dependence of a princedom on the khan rate.

However, the “payment of exit” obligations of the ancient lands in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania were not limited. [14]

The treaty of the Lithuanian princes with the Polish king Casimir from 1352, says about the military service of the tributaries: "... Already go Tatars on lyahi, then the Russians will bond with Tatars ..." [15]

As for participation in hostilities as part of the Horde army, the Russian lands, which fell under the rule of Lithuania, were in a much worse position than North-Eastern Russia. As Daniel Romanovich Galitsky and Roman Mikhailovich Chernigovsky gave their troops for the campaigns of the Tatar-Mongols to the west, so did the Lithuanian princes a hundred years later.

So, in the 14 century, the Russian lands that became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania were carrying the full complement of the tribute to the Horde, and the Mongol-Tatar yoke was de facto heavier than in Northeast Russia, where the Basque administration was forgotten at this time. , and in fact there was no military service (only one such episode is noted, in 1270's).

Only recognition by the Lithuanian princes of the shed rights of the Saray to the Russian lands could ensure for Lithuania the inclusion of the latter in the sphere of their domination. Legally, this was issued in the form of a Lithuanian Grand Duke receiving a label on the Russian lands, and later on the Lithuanian lands. The Lithuanian princes had to send kilichic ambassadors for investiture, or the khan himself could have sent such ambassadors - an example is the label of Tokhtamysh to the Polish king Vladislav II Yagailo.

At the beginning of the 15 century, after the defeat of Tokhtamysh and Vitovt from Murza Edigey (the former, by the way, analogue of Mamaia) in the battle of Vorskla, a kind of Asianization of Lithuania is underway. Immigrants from the Golden Horde settle in various localities of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, large Horde troops participate in almost all military campaigns of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, making up half of the Lithuanian army, including wars against European opponents such as the Teutonic Order, and in the invasions of the Russian principalities, first of all Pskov. [16]

So in 1426, Vitovt, at the head of the whole International, Polish, Lithuanian and Tatar regiments, tried to conquer the Pskov region for the second time. Pskovites fought back from the last forces. Novgorod, as usual, feared, but the young Basil II threatened Lithuania with war and the Lithuanian prince agreed to peace, having received a contribution from Pskov.

Under Khan Seid-Mohammed (1442-1455), in favor of the Great Horde, there was a tribute from the Kiev region, which was directly collected by Tatar officials, “daragi”, who were in the cities of Kanev, Cherkasy, Putyvl. [17]

“The registry of the write-offs of the inhabitants of Gorodetsky” (a collection of documents from the end of 15 and the beginning of the 16 centuries. On granting privileges to the servicemen of the land, close gentry) contains such records about the exemption from paying tribute to the Horde: “We are a great dragon Shvytrygaylovaya Anna. They let go of the Esmo Tatarshin 15 pennies and pennies to Moshlyak the old man and his children. Don't give them anything, only serve them as a horse, and no one knows anything else. ”[18]

The Danish relations of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania continued even after the fall of the Golden Horde, moving to its successor states.

Having defeated the Great Horde in 1502, the Khan Mengli-Girey began to consider himself the successor of the Great Horde and Juchi Ulus, the overlord of all previously subordinate to the Horde lands.

Referring to the traditional tribute to the Danish relations, the Crimean Khan is demanding the restoration of the income of the tribute from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, as it was “under Sedehmat with the king” [19], paying the “tribute” and “exits” in the previous volume: “Kolko of the tribute cities and the exits gave ... tribute and let us serve from the current hour. ” [20]

Lithuanian princes, in general, do not mind, just find a more diplomatic formulation for their dependence. The payments to the Crimean Horde are called “commemorations” (gifts), which are collected “from both our goods of Lyadsky (the current territory of Belarus) and Lithuanian”. The Polish king Sigismund (1508) declares with great cunning that the commemoration is delivered "... not from the lands of our ambassadors, even from our person, as before ...". [21]

The Crimean Khanate does not object to the amended wording, the main thing is to pay, necessarily and annually.

A.A. Gorsky points out that “at the end of the 15th and beginning of the 16th centuries, the Crimean khans, who considered themselves heirs of the Horde, continued to give Lithuanian labels to the Grand Dukes of Russia, and they still paid tribute - at a time when the Grand Duchy Moscow already did not do it! ”[22]

During the Smolensk war, a Moscow-friendly Crimean nobleman, Appak-Murza, wrote to the Grand Duke of All Russia, Vasily III: “You have a Khan asking for eight cities, and if you give them to him, you will give him a friend, but not to happen unless you send him as much treasury as the king sends, then he will give these cities to you. And how can they not be friends with the king? And in the summer, and in the winter, the treasury from the king, like a river, flows incessantly, and it uproots the little and the great ”. [22a]

If Lithuania did not keep up with the payment of tribute, the Crimean Khanate conducted an “educational” raid. And protection against raids in Poland-Lithuania was posed very badly, due to the domination of the oligarchy, who had little interest in solving national problems. Moskovskaya Rus builds indentation lines, creates solid lines of fortification and defensive structures on the border with the Wild Field, advancing from forest-steppe into the steppe, increases the depth of sentinel guard and stanitsa service, mobilizes all large military forces to act on their Ukrainians to defend defensive lines and growing border towns, sending shelves to the steppe, little by little wringing the Crimeans to Perekop and reducing the number of raids. [23] Poland-Lithuania, as a rule, is helpless before the raids of the Crimeans; defense based on rare castles and castle servants is ineffective against raids; all its forces, military and propaganda, are spent on the struggle with Moscow Russia.

“This is not a city, but an absorber of our blood,” described Mihalon Litvin (Ventslav Mikolaevich) of the Crimean slave trade Kafu. This Lithuanian author reports a small number of escapes of captured Litvinians from the Crimean bondage - in comparison with prisoners from Moscow Russia. Crimean slavery looked for the Lithuanian commoner no worse than life under the rule of the nobility. “If the gentleman kills the flake, he says that he killed the dog, because the nobility considers kmet (peasants) as dogs,” testifies the writer of the middle of 16 c. Modzhevsky. [24] “We keep, in unceasing slavery, our own people, who were mined not by war and bought, belonging not to someone else’s, but to our tribe and faith, orphans, the poor, trapped in a marriage through marriage with slaves; we evilly use our power over them, torture them, disfigure, kill without trial, at the slightest suspicion, - Mihalon Litvin indignant.

Pans and gentry handed over their estates at the mercy of the tenants, squeezing all the juice out of the peasants, and lived in strong castles that protect against Tatar arrows. Mihalon Lytvyn left curious descriptions of the master's life - the nobility spent time in drinking and drinking, while the Tatars tied people around the villages and drove them to the Crimea. [25]

During the first half of 16 c. materials materials ON constantly record the collection of the Horde tribute. Smolensk burghers from “silver” and “Horde and any other” payments are exempt only once, in 1502. [26] From the 1501, the “painting of the Horde” was preserved ON. The number of ON cities obliged to pay tribute to the Crimean Khanate, besides Juchiev’s ulus of Smolensk, Vladimir-Volynsky, and others, recognized such purely Lithuanian cities as Troki, Vilna, which were not originally dependent on the Horde lands. [27]

Now the tribute-Horde region is regularly going to the treasury of the Grand Duke of Lithuania now also from territories that, according to preserved sources, in the 13-14 centuries, the Orda did not pay tribute to it at all. So the obligation to pay the "Horde" from the land of the Vilnius in accordance with the "long-standing custom" is noted in the acts under 1537. [28]

Moreover, the Polish-Lithuanian authorities returned "servants" to the Tatars, escaped or taken out by the Cossacks, with punishment of the guilty, somehow ordered by the orders of the Grand Duke of Lithuania Alexander and King Sigismund I. And after the Polish-Lithuanian union 1569, the number of orders of the authorities of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for the cruel punishment of the “slaves” only increased; Cossacks, greatly disturbed the Tatar or Turkish authorities, indulged in execution. Somehow it was with the Cossack leader Ivan Podkova at the beginning of the reign of Stefan Batory. [29]

The last time the Grand Duke of Lithuania and the Polish King received a label for reigning from Khan through 130 years after Moscow did (1432). [30]

Horde raids and Horde tribute were superimposed on the oppression brought to the population of South-Western Russia by the Lithuanian conquerors, and then the Polish gentlemen. The latter have made a huge contribution to the creation of political Russophobian Ukrainians, reforming the worldview and historical memory of a significant part of the population in the former South-Western Russia.

Links:
1. Khrustalev D.G. Russia from the invasion to the yoke. 30 - 40 XIII century. SPb, 2008
2. Mavrodin V.V .. Essays on the history of Left-Bank Ukraine (From ancient times to the second half of the XIV century). SPb., 2002. C. 370-391
3. Solovyov S.M. History of Russia from ancient times, t.3, ch.3.
4. PSRL SPb., 1859. T.25, p. 170.
5. Novgorod I Chronicle younger. PSRL T. 3. C. 344. Quoted on aquilaaquilonis.livejournal.com/592808.html
6. Amelkin A. O., Seleznev Yu.V. Battle of Kulikovo in the testimony of contemporaries and descendants. M., 2011 - further Amelkin. C. 108
7. “Book of Victories” by Sheref-ad-Din Yezdi. Tizengauzen V. Collection of materials relating to the history of the Golden Horde. T. II. M.-L. 1941. C. 179-180. Quoted on aquilaaquilonis.livejournal.com/592808.html
8. Nizam ad-din Shami. The Book of Victory. Zafar Name Viii. Collection of materials relating to the history of the Golden Horde, Volume II. Extracts from Persian essays collected by VG Tizengauzen. M.-L. Academy of Sciences of the USSR. 1941. C.121
9. Lyubavsky M.K. Essay on the history of the Lithuanian-Russian state up to the Union of Lublin, inclusive. M. 1910, p.24. Quoted by Amelkin
10. F. Shabuldo. The Land of South-Western Russia as part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. K., 1987. C.105
11. Acts relating to the history of Western Russia, collected and published by the Archeographic Commission - further AZR. 1846. T.1, No.4, p.21. Quoted by Amelkin
12. Egorov V.L. Historical geography of the Golden Horde. C. 71.
13. Berezin I.N. Khan shortcuts. I. Label Tokhtamysh Khan to Jagiel. Kazan 1850. C.51. Quoted by Amelkin.
14. Florea B.N. Lithuania and Russia before the battle on the Kulikovo field. C. 147.
15. AZR T.I. No. 1. C. 1. Quoted by Amelkin
16. Morozova S.V. Golden Horde in the Moscow policy of Vitovt // Slavs and their neighbors. Issue 10. C.92-94.
17. Florea B.N. Horde and Eastern European States in the middle of the XV century. (1430-1460) // Slavs and their neighbors. Issue 10. C. 92-94
18. “Diploma of Grand Duchess Anna Svidrigailova, freeing the landwoman Moshlyak from the fee of the Tatars and the penniless trap. 1492 DEC 15. ”. Audit of forests and animal passages in the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania with the addition of privileges to the entrances to the forest and to the land. T. 1. Vilna 1867. C.330. Quoted on aquilaaquilonis.livejournal.com/9480.html
19. Collection of Russian Historical Society. SPb., 1892. T. 35. C. 290-291
20. AZR T.2. No.6. C.4. Quoted by Amelkin.
21. AZR T.2. No.41. C.51. Quoted by Amelkin
22. Gorsky A. Russian Middle Ages. M., 2010
22a. Syroechkovsky V.E. Mohammed Giray and his vassals. - “Scientific notes of MSU”, vol. 61. Historical series, t. 2. M., 1940, p. 3 — 71.
23. Belyaev I. D. About the guard, stanitsa and field service in the Polish Ukraine of Moscow State to Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich. M., 1846
24. Modrzewski Andrzei Fricz. Commentariorum De Republica emendanda libri quinque. Basileae, 1554, p.15-16.
25. Mihalon Litvin. On the customs of the Tatars, Lithuanians and Muscovites. M., 1994.
26. AZR T.1. No.199. C.347. Quoted by Amelkin.
27. AZR T.1. No.193. C.243. Quoted by Amelkin.
28. Collection of ancient letters and acts of the cities of Vilnius, Kovna, Trok, Orthodox monasteries, and on different suburbs. Vilna 1843. C.I. No.3. C.62. Quoted by Amelkin.
29. Archive of South-Western Russia, issued by the Commission for the analysis of ancient acts. CH 8. T. 5. C. 76.
30. Averyanov-Minsky K. Asian Lithuania and European Moscow. Internet publ.
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 14 October 2017 07: 00 New
    10
    Short and to the point ...
  2. Cat
    Cat 14 October 2017 07: 03 New
    +3
    The author's idea is more than interesting!
    But why should Lithuania (White Russia) and Ukraine interfere with the boiler! I see no reason to be like modern Zhmudi with the emblem of the "Chase"? The "Tatar" component relates more to the southeastern lands bordering the wild field. Already north of Smolensk, it is disappearing, and in the territory of modern Belarus it was temporary (episodic) in nature. The author did not boldly affirm that the territory of modern Ukraine became part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania through military conquest. Although the story shows a completely different picture - dynastic marriages, inheritance, etc.
    For example, the Principality of Chernigov, by the way, which has a double-headed eagle in its coat of arms as part of the "speech of the Commonwealth!" Almost the whole period of the "Tatar-Mongol yoke" was conditionally independent. ON was for about 30 years. As part of the Moscow state, then the Russian Empire - about three centuries. As part of the Commonwealth - a little more than 50 years. A similar "picture" with Smolensk and other cities of Little Russia. Moreover, if you pay attention to the southern regions of Ukraine, the Slavic population "arises" there along with a Russian soldier during the time of Catherine the Second. If anyone wants to object, let them remember all the takes of Ishmael! Or in the days of Suvorov they lived there - "Ukrainians" !!!
    1. Lex.
      Lex. 14 October 2017 10: 48 New
      +4
      Modern Ukrainians, especially from western Ukraine, consider themselves clean but they don’t say that besides the Mongols they were still trampled by Turks, Crimean Tatars for centuries
      1. Cat
        Cat 14 October 2017 10: 56 New
        +3
        You forgot about the Polish company!
    2. svp67
      svp67 14 October 2017 11: 29 New
      +5
      Quote: Kotischa
      But why should Lithuania (White Russia) and Ukraine interfere with the boiler!

      You just need to know a little story. Namely, the fact that so many now Ukrainian lands, and this is primarily the Principality of Kiev and even Novgorod-Seversky, from where Igor and his regiment went on an immortal campaign, were part of the Principality of Lithuania. And if to be to the end, its full name is the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian, Zhemoyt and others ... Where modern Lithuanians are former Zheymotins ...
      1. venaya
        venaya 14 October 2017 13: 07 New
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        Where modern Lithuanians are former zheymotins ...

        Look, and these "former zheimotins ..." and the litas - they are even called former Prussians, he himself saw this. Although the kingdom "Prussia" appears recently, that way in the 17th century, and the word is already from the German language, which appeared shortly before the appearance of this kingdom ..
      2. Cat
        Cat 14 October 2017 19: 34 New
        +5
        With all due respect to you, I see no reason to divide the Trishkin Kaftan between modern Belarus, Russia and Ukraine. During the period under review, the Grand Russian-Lithuanian Principality had the official language of office work - Russian, the official religion - Orthodoxy, along with paganism by the way. Moreover, residents of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania - considered themselves not Lithuanians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, but simply - Russians or Russians. The funniest thing is the "attempts" of modern historians to tie the lands of Chernigov, Novgorod-Seversky, Smolensk to modern Belarus and Ukraine. The historical aspect of the stay of these territories as part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania is negligible! Already under Ivan the Terrible’s grandfather, they were part of Muscovy. The loss of these cities in troubled times at the time of the first Romanovs, covers the time period a little more than half a century. Subsequently, these territories were Russian.
        Ps I live among the Ural mountains, subjectively deeply do not care where the capital of Russia is. Moscow, Vilno, Kiev or Minsk. To be honest, I can only regret that the Grand Duke of Lithuania, Russian, etc. Bought on the Polish crown. History has no syllable, I think that the most important thing is to be Russian, speak your native language and live in a country that occupies 1/6 of the land. Although this fully applies to all residents of our vast country.
    3. Theodore
      Theodore 15 October 2017 06: 00 New
      0
      the Lithuanians also love to yell that the Russians are Mongols! That is why!
      1. Operator
        Operator 15 October 2017 13: 14 New
        +1
        Lithuanians are half Slavs (indigenous inhabitants of the Baltic states), half are Ugro-Finns (immigrants from beyond the Urals).

        As well as Latvians and Estonians.
  3. Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 October 2017 07: 04 New
    +4
    Field battles in the North-East of Russia showed their inefficiency. It’s not proud of Sitia.
    In general, the selection is conscientious. Maybe a little monotonous.
  4. andrewkor
    andrewkor 14 October 2017 07: 30 New
    +2
    Thanks to the author, I learned a lot, the puzzle has developed, another myth about the exceptionalism of Svidomo collapsed! How about Troy?
  5. Olgovich
    Olgovich 14 October 2017 09: 38 New
    +7
    It is not said about one of the main events: after the capture of Kiev by the Mongols, the Metropolis, i.e. the center of the spiritual life of Russia, moved from Kiev to Vladimir-on-Klyazma, and then to Moscow. Together with her, the state power of Vladimir and Moscow gained additional authority and strength, becoming the center of the unification of Russia
    1. Cat
      Cat 14 October 2017 11: 17 New
      +3
      The shift of economic, cultural and political power to the northeast from Kiev began long before the arrival of the Tatar-Mongols in Russia. Remember the words of Prince Igor "about the steel shelves of the Vladimir-Suzdal princes - with helmets Don to splash"!
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 15 October 2017 09: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Kotischa
        The shift of economic, cultural and political power to the northeast from Kiev began long before the arrival of the Tatar-Mongols in Russia

        The displacement began after the defeat of the southern Russian principalities of the Mongols and the transfer of the Metropolis of Kiev to Vladimir.
    2. ukoft
      ukoft 14 October 2017 11: 27 New
      +1
      the shift began due to a drop in productivity, fire support and fallow depleted the soil. trepolye came later, in the ages of 14-15, and in terms of productivity trepolye is much inferior to fallow and fire-slice.
      therefore, people went to the virgin lands, that is, the northeast. the center also moved to agriculture. since agriculture was the basis of all economies.

      so these are not evil Mongols. the center would have moved so. Kiev was still an important center of transit trade, the value of which also gradually decreased.
      1. Luga
        Luga 14 October 2017 14: 57 New
        +5
        Quote: ukoft
        the shift began due to a drop in productivity, fire support and fallow depleted the soil.

        Personally, it seems to me that the main reason for the shift of the center of power to the northeast was the princely strife and the constant struggle for Kiev. Since the time of Mstislav Vladimirovich (Mstislav the Great) in Kiev, princes have been sitting all, at best, for several years, constant raids from either Chervona Rus, now from Zalesye, now from Belaya Rus, now from Wild Field, the lands have been ruined, management has been constantly changing, no stability. See the list of Grand Dukes of Kiev from 1132 to the Mongol invasion. It was extremely difficult for the people in such conditions, so they fled to the forests to the north, northeast.
        The depletion of land in the Kiev region could hardly have taken place - there is a lot of land there, it is very fertile, but, as a disadvantage, it is difficult to defend because it is open. It was much easier to protect the Zalessky lands (outposts, barriers), and therefore the government shifted there. More precisely, part of the government. Not Smolensk, not Galich and Volyn did not submit to the Vladimir prince, possessing complete sovereignty in affairs. At the same time, as the center (geographical and, let's say, ideological, a symbol of prestige, seniority in the family) of Russian lands, Kiev retained its significance, and therefore clung to it.
        The economic base of any candidate for the Kiev table was in his estate, and the princes themselves in Kiev preferred to appear less often. By the way, Vladimir later befell the same fate - too often passed from hand to hand, and the princes ruled Russia from their estates, receiving only due "exits" from the great table.
        1. ukoft
          ukoft 14 October 2017 20: 00 New
          +1
          Take any land and try without vapors and winter crops; in 5-10 years, yields will fall. And of course without fertilizer. There were no three-fields, farmers worked on the site for 5-10 years and then moved to another site. This fallow or fire-slaughtering agriculture. So farmers went deeper into the forest. But the raids of the steppes and princes also played a role, but let's not forget that Kiev was first formed as a city of transit trade on the way from the Varangians to the Greeks. This path has lost its meaning over time. Vladimir is primarily a cultural and economic center of his region. By the way, the urban population there was 12-15%, because the yield was high at fallow and undercut. But virgin land is limited.
          1. Luga
            Luga 14 October 2017 20: 55 New
            +5
            Quote: ukoft
            Take any land and try without vapors and winter crops,

            I am not a peasant, unlike my old ancestors, I will not succeed in pairs and with winter crops and fertilizers. smile
            But do not forget that the main thing for the peasant is not so much to grow and harvest, but to preserve what he has harvested with his labor. One hat is enough if you are sure that it will not be removed from your head. And when to Kiev every year, then a campaign, or even two, and each campaign is a ruin (there were no other ways of supplying the army then), willy-nilly you will escape to a place where it is calmer. So the people fled. And this seems to me to be the main reason, and not the depletion of the land at all, especially since there is no documentary evidence of this. By the way, as a center of transit trade (both in the north-south direction and in the west-east direction), Kiev also urgently needed stability and peace. And here, not one of the warring princes strives to shod any merchant, but another, or you will come under dashing people, of whom a dime a dozen during wars, is also a little joy. And the war around Kiev went annually with interruptions, if only for the harvest, but for the mud.
            1. ukoft
              ukoft 14 October 2017 21: 35 New
              +1
              look, when Kiev was just becoming, when it was appreciated, do you think then there were fewer wars in the district?
              same nomads Pechenegs, Torques, Polovtsy, princes. Yes, everyone was always cut there. periods as with monomakh are very short-lived. and even under Vladimir the Baptist, when he was still alive, when his sons had not yet given up the spirit his sons began to rage.
              these were always cuts. there was no peace in those days, not only in Kiev, everywhere was restless.
              it’s good that we don’t live at that time. just wars and batches with the advent of the yoke and decreased. It became calmer, but Kiev was losing its meaning.
              and not because of some kind of millet, which was supposedly forced to grow for the Mongols. wheat will be tastier. millet is just not so demanding on weather and soil.
              any nomad chooses wheat without looking.
  6. Semenov
    Semenov 14 October 2017 10: 02 New
    +1
    Not often with sources, literature - just a scientific article! Further success to the author.
  7. Lex.
    Lex. 14 October 2017 10: 18 New
    +2
    Actually, the last time Peter I paid tribute to the Crimean Khan
    1. Cat
      Cat 14 October 2017 19: 06 New
      +3
      The last commemoration of the Crimean Khan was paid by Catherine the Great. Although for the sake of fairness it should be noted that she celebrated the last funeral in the Crimean Khanate!
  8. unknown
    unknown 14 October 2017 10: 50 New
    +2
    The Mongol yoke did not do any damage. Due to lack of yoke.
    As for the territory of the so-called outskirts, until recently, this territory remained uninhabited.
    Real Wild, walk the field. And they began to populate this land in an orderly manner, from above. People they wanted to get rid of elsewhere. As a result of this settlement-relocation, a very peculiar pseudo-ethnos developed on the outskirts, with no real roots in genetics, linguistics, culture. But, with huge, unconfirmed ambitions.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 14 October 2017 12: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Usher
        Your evidence and arguments?

        Have you heard that the thread is about the small ice age? What do you think, when he began to melt and "go north", who occupied these territories? Option thawed - do not offer. laughing
  9. XII Legion
    XII Legion 14 October 2017 13: 52 New
    19
    And it’s not politically correct to talk about Yoke with us now)
    But ... after all, archaeologists find the ashes of cities and there are skeletons studded with Horde arrows. Periodic (including for preventive purposes) invasions (when people were destroyed and stolen, values ​​died) are reported in the annals.
    If you remove the invasion and robbery, I see 3 forms of dependence of Russia on the Horde:
    1) To legitimize power, the prince traveled to the Horde for a label (without it, he was an impostor). A good tool in the spirit of divide and conquer politics. Intrigue, contention. Many princes from such trips did not return (even such large figures as Mikhail Tverskoy);
    2) The princes were obliged to supply the Horde with military contingents - they fought on the side of the Horde on its fronts;
    3) A tribute was collected. At first, the Basques (who were assisted by the armed detachments) were in charge of this, and then Mikhail Kalita received the right to collect tribute from all over Russia and pay it to the khan (he collected so much, gave a fixed amount - since then Moscow has become especially fattening. No wonder some principalities were simply bought - e.g. Pereyaslavl).
    And the Lithuanian-Russian lands could well become an alternative center for collecting Russian lands - like Moscow or Tver
    Interesting article
    And the base is rich
    1. ukoft
      ukoft 14 October 2017 14: 25 New
      0
      Popovodite ashes of cities and bodies with studded Mongolian arrows in more detail, please, please. where how and who found, or smoked
      1. XII Legion
        XII Legion 14 October 2017 15: 15 New
        19
        The Horde was fortunate that at the time of the invasion we had fragmentation, and they had a strong early feudal monarchy. They would invade 100 years earlier, during the time of V. Monomakh (who broke the ridge of the Polovtsy) - the result could be different.
        And from the 16th century, the reverse process began - the Horde is fragmented, and in Russia the folding of a centralized state. The Russian khanates began to slowly tidy up their hands.
        The patterns of the historical process, so to speak
        Ashes
        I read excavation reports from archaeological expeditions
        It was remembered - for example, they dug up the skeleton of a hefty peasant combatant - he defended himself alone at the gate, under a hail of arrows with characteristic tips. Dating 1230-1240 years.
        Well, study the work of the famous archaeologist Kirpichnikov
        The fact of the invasion and subsequent dependence of Russia on the Horde took place to be - whatever you call it
        1. ukoft
          ukoft 14 October 2017 19: 50 New
          +1
          The yoke is of little use. It was, but the magnitude of the consequences was exaggerated ideologically. In fact, the yoke was easier than the Roman occupation, which changed control by placing its governors in either Persian or Chinese. Igo is just a tribute supply. The elites remained the same. On internecine strife, the princes were no less bloody. By the way, the yoke put an end to them. On the other hand, occupation has led, as in the Roman provinces, and a lot of positive. But they do not like to remember this, after all, pride interferes. And about the man at the gates and the bricks, like other tales, tell me in another place. There is not a single city that would be excavated and said that the Mongols burned everything here. Only verbally folk art. And not because it wasn’t, just wooden cities were.
          1. XII Legion
            XII Legion 14 October 2017 19: 59 New
            18
            ukoft Today, 19:50 ↑ New
            Only verbally folk art. And not because it wasn’t, just wooden cities were.

            This is the story
            About POSITIVE robbers and killers. Sam Saray-Batu himself dug - and the whole settlement there was from stolen artisans. Probably of their own free will)
            And everyone lies - and archaeologists (incl. Doctor of Historical Sciences, Honored Scientist of the RSFSR A.N. Kirpichnikov), and chronicles, and oral folk art
            And Russia was ALL wooden. In vain it in the 11-12 centuries. gothic called
            One white stone Kiev is worth
            1. ukoft
              ukoft 14 October 2017 21: 46 New
              0
              robbed a batu, and drove away in full. and not only him, everyone did it then. and princes relatives neighbors and others. only there is no evidence that he was worse than others.

              and all the wooden Russia was then. she was never gothic. The style was Romanesque in architecture.
              even London before the 17th century was wooden. the forest is good stuff and I see nothing wrong with its uses. better than stone or brick.
              1. XII Legion
                XII Legion 14 October 2017 22: 46 New
                17
                [quote] [ukoft Today, 21:46 ↑ New
                robbed a batu, and drove away in full. and not only him, everyone did it then. and princes relatives neighbors and others. only there is no evidence that he was worse than others.
                and all the wooden Russia was then. she was never gothic. The style was Romanesque in architecture.
                even London before the 17th century was wooden. the forest is good stuff and I see nothing wrong with its uses. better than stone or brick.
                / Quote]
                The subsequent khans stole and robbed
                Starting with Burke, etc.
                For example, have you heard about Nevryuev’s army?
                The prince does not obey - raid; tribute is not paid - raid. And for the sake of prevention - too.
                There were a lot of stone buildings in the cities. They were in Izborsk, but in Novgorod?
                Kiev or Suzdal is worse?
                What is the kid, the Kremlin know?
                In Kiev, in the year 990, a STONE church was built.
                So don’t do la-la, labor la la
              2. XII Legion
                XII Legion 14 October 2017 23: 26 New
                18
                Here by the way, some interesting data
                In the summer of 2011, employees of the "Vladimir Regional Center for Archeology at VlSU" conducted research on the construction site on the street. Zlatovratsky d.1. The mass burial of a large number of people was discovered for the first time, with a high degree of probability, who died as a result of the siege of the city by the Mongol-Tatars in February 1238.
                The burial was carried out in the pit of the courtyard of an old Russian estate, burned during the capture of the city. This is evidenced by the large number of elements of burnt wooden structures and grain, also found in this pit.
                The total number of those buried is at least 50 people. Of these, at least 36 are adults, whose age is 20-25 - 40-50 years. Injuries in children are comparable in nature to injuries in adults, but skull fractures are the only type of injury. Almost all children's skulls are in a fragmented state.
                A feature of this burial is the almost complete absence of elderly people, which distinguishes this burial from the burials of the so-called "paleontological" (burial mounds).
                photo - skull of a 30–40-year-old Slavic woman overtaken and killed by a rider from behind (a chopped wound).
                It should be noted that this burial is characterized by a very high percentage of injuries incompatible with life. The nature of the injuries allows them to be unambiguously interpreted as resulting from an attack by a detachment of armed riders.
                In men, chopped ones prevail, in women and children, wounds with a heavy blunt object.
                The remains of a Slavic anthropological warrior were discovered, in addition to a chopped blow (saber) that did not become fatal, there was a non-fatal wound inflicted by a small pointed object (arrow), as well as a fatal fracture of the skull bones in the temporal region, the skull was destroyed as a result of the blow eyeball (see photo above and below). The number and nature of the warrior's injuries proves the desperate stamina, perseverance and heroism of the city’s defenders. Residents seemed to understand that they were doomed, but did not give up, saving their lives.
                Many buried on turtles immediately noted 2 injuries. Such a situation is possible if the “killing” of the victim was practiced.
                In children, the only type of injury in the Vladimir burial is fractures of the skull bones.
                Obviously, there was an attack by a well-armed detachment of horsemen (chopped wounds inflicted on top), the task of which included the total extermination of the population.
                The Mongolian version of the attack is confirmed (including) by the finds of a large number of unique arrowheads (arrow-fork), used only by steppes.
                photo - Mongolian arrow - "fork"
                photo - russian arrows
                The city fiercely resisted, but was doomed, because the main forces (squad) were pulled by Vladimir Prince Yuri Vsevolodovich to the River River for the decisive battle, which took place on March 4, 1238 and was lost by the Russians.
                In 2005, in Vladimir, in the area of ​​Gagarin St., 2, the above-mentioned group of Vladimir archaeologists discovered a burnt Tatar manor, indicating the presence of a rich Tatar family (apparently, the governor). The estate was built in the most "prestigious" for that time area of ​​Vladimir (the largest number of treasures was found in this area). According to archaeologists, this is "the Vladimir ruble of the XIV century." By the nature of the finds, with a great deal of certainty, it can be argued that the Horde Tatar lived in the estate, since the objects found were never used by the Russians and the Russians did not sell them.
                Items found include:
                1) a fragment of a glass goblet made in Syria (Aleppo, XIII-XIV century) in the style of "Mamluk"
                2) a fragment of a flask with an embossed ornament in the shape of a "kalype" made in Khorezm (XIV century), widespread in Central Asia and the countries of the East
                3) Jun-yao ceramic bowl or dish, China XII-XIII (the first finds of such dishes in Eastern Europe)
                4) faience (kashin ceramics with opaque watering) of the Minai type (Iran, XIII-XIV century) with Arabic script and semi-faience (kashin ceramics with transparent watering), production - Middle East (XIII-XIV century), chandelier semi-faience with painting Kashin (XIII-XIV century).
                Kashin ceramics is a unique "marker" of the Horde (Tatar-Mongol), since it always accompanies them (and only their) presence. This type of ceramics was very much appreciated during the study period in the Horde.
          2. Luga
            Luga 14 October 2017 21: 21 New
            +8
            Quote: ukoft
            And about the man at the gates and the bricks, like other tales, tell me in another place.

            You allow yourself to speak out about things in which you feel regrettable little if you write the name of one of the most respected figures in historical science in the way you did. I mean Professor Anatoly Nikolayevich Kirpichnikov (health to him!). I can understand you if you have not read his works, there is nothing strange in that - they are purely scientific, alien to any kind of popularization, unlike the works of pseudo-historians like Fomenko, Shirokorad, etc. (pooh on them!), although among his articles one can find relatively easy to read, mainly in the materials of various conferences.
            By the way, if you strain your brain and try to study any of his scientific works, you will be able to discover a lot of new things both in terms of archeology and in terms of what the invasion and the yoke represented.
            In terms of describing the invasion, I recently liked the monograph by Denis Khrustalev "Russia from the invasion to the yoke." Recommend.
            1. ukoft
              ukoft 14 October 2017 21: 43 New
              0
              thanks for the recommendations.
              but tendentiousness without confirmation of the facts by the path that many historians followed. bricks are no exception. trying to explain what the authorities maintained for the sake of ideology is not history.
              there is not a single archaeological evidence of cohabited cities with residents who died there with Mongolian arrowheads. because the cities were wooden, and besides the ordinary robbery there was no complete destruction (such as Kozelsk, only no one knows what kind of city it was or where it was).
              here the ancient cities of burnt and destroyed archaeologists find. determined by layers. but they didn’t find it in Russia. it was either not preserved or not preserved due to humidity and wooden buildings.

              do not hide behind authorities. give the facts to the studio. we still can’t find a kulikovo field, but you’re looking for cohabited cities
              1. XII Legion
                XII Legion 14 October 2017 23: 25 New
                17
                ukoft
                you are looking for cohabited cities

                Looking for archaeologists
                The expedition of the Institute of Archeology of the Russian Academy of Sciences under the direction of A.V. In 2004-2005, Engovatova discovered a number of sanitary burials in the historical center of Yaroslavl. On the study area (1200 sq.m.), 25 residential and utility buildings of varying degrees of conservation were identified, more than a hundred utility and construction pits were recorded. A change in the layout and development of this quarter was revealed, as well as traces of powerful fires, including those mentioned in written sources under 1501 and 1658.
                The first burial (a total of nine was discovered) was discovered under the foundation of the Assumption Cathedral in an earlier construction, deepened into the mainland by 80-90 cm (presumably a basement of a house, photo above), a structure with wooden log walls. Judging by the chaotic arrangement of the bones of the buried (on the side, on the back, flat, some were thrown down into the foundation pit), the burial was carried out in a hurry.
                Among human bones, animal bones were discovered. Among the remains were also found female jewelry, a cross-vest, pieces of cloth, vintage glass, fragments of plinths, fragments of circular ceramics. According to the conclusion of ceramics specialists, a burial should be attributed to the first half of the 97th century. In the first burial, the remains of 9 individuals of the Slavic (Vyatichsky) anthropological type were found (the total number of found bones in 500 graves is about 1247). The number of children in the group is approximately one third. The studied series was a one-time chronological section, which brought it closer to the traditional biological group (in contrast to paleoanthropological burials). According to fragments of fabrics and other finds (wool, felt, fur), with a high degree of probability it can be argued that people died in the cold. Which corresponds to the dating of the invasion of Batu (winter 48-XNUMX).
                The second was a well in which the remains of at least 77 people were discovered. According to the preserved wood of the walls of the well, it was established that the well was built no earlier than 1228. Among things, objects were found that fell into the well during its intended use (buckets, bowls, tues).
                The dating of archaeological material allows us to state that all nine burials were completed simultaneously - not earlier than the end of the 1220s and not later than the middle of the XIII century.
                The study of the Yaroslavl burial sites showed that closer to the city walls and defensive ramparts (near the borders of the detinets), the bones of middle-aged men 25-35 years old with fatal injuries in the front part prevail.
                Closer to the city center with a predominance of female and children's skeletons (half the number of men) with injuries from the back, and women of all ages. In the well where the soldiers were buried, the remains of a militia (apparently) were found - namely, in the well, a well-preserved insulated bast foot with a winter insole was found, in which there were phalanxes of the toes.
                Pathologists believe that several months have passed from the moment of death to the moment of burial - in the skull boxes there are larvae of flies, and the bodies are damaged by rodents. Apparently, the surviving residents hastily left the city, that the dead bodies remained lying not buried until June. This circumstance also speaks in favor of the fact that in the well were found the remains (skeleton) of a cow with signs of dystrophic exhaustion and a rope around its neck. People left the city and the tied cow died of hunger. Cut off sheep heads were also found. Apparently, the Tatars chopped off sheep’s heads and decapitated carcasses attached to the saddle, moving further into the territory of Russia.
                Apparently, the victims were buried in close proximity to the place where death overtook them.
                Among the causes of death, forensic experts from the Bureau of Forensic Medicine of the Moscow Department of Health, who were involved in the excavation, in almost all cases found death as a result of injuries incompatible with life. Among them are three characteristic groups:
                1) chopped wounds
                2) stab wounds
                3) hole fractures (see photo)
                punctured scapular bone of a child (hole fracture)
                The injuries showed no signs of healing, that is, they were fatal. Damage to children's skeletons led experts to the unequivocal conclusion that children were not just killed, but also raised on spears (characteristic notches were found on the spine and chest). Women and children mostly died from injuries with arrows in the chest, back, and stomach. One child was found to have a stela in the calcaneus, which is only possible if the child was running away from the arrow that shot into it.
                As a result, the city was set on fire and burned to the ground. Among the dead there are also burnt alive.
                Old Ryazan, Izyaslavl, Kozelsk, Moscow, Kiev
                Similar burials were found:
                - in Old Ryazan in the trenches of the eastern part of the Northern fortification (47 mass graves), discovered in 1926. On the bones marks from chopping weapons
                - the village of Fatyanovka near the Oka River, 1979. Those killed with traces of violent death (skull breaks, arrowheads stuck in the bones) were put in three tiers without coffins. Some signs indicated that frozen bodies were buried.
                - Izyaslavl (near the village of Gorodishche, Shepetovsky district, Khmelnytsky region) - more than 250 people (including women, the elderly and children) with injuries similar to Yaroslavl and Vladimir (that is, typical). Many of the corpses were severely fragmented (chopped into pieces), most of the injuries to non-combatants were inflicted on the side, behind and lying on the ground. Group M.K. Karger
                - Kiev, 1892, burials near the Grand Ducal Court, Tithes Church, Golden Gate, Podil
                - Kozelsk, Moscow
                1. ukoft
                  ukoft 15 October 2017 10: 29 New
                  0
                  They read the Internet and immediately got what they got. They dug up something and immediately ranked it as a yoke. The tendency of your sources is obvious. I repeat there is not a single built hill fort developed and found to date
                  1. XII Legion
                    XII Legion 15 October 2017 10: 36 New
                    17
                    These are the facts
                    You are given a list of settlements with similar situations.
                    The tendency of your sources is obvious.

                    And this is empty reasoning
                    Bring then not biased sources
                    1. ukoft
                      ukoft 15 October 2017 12: 44 New
                      0
                      Legion, too lazy to look. Your took. But the above are not facts
    2. Luga
      Luga 14 October 2017 15: 37 New
      +5
      Quote: XII legion
      If you remove the invasion and robbery, I see 3 forms of dependence of Russia on the Horde:

      Rather, three signs.
      The first paragraph actually means the vassal oath of khan. Permission to own zamles for recognition of the supreme authority of the Horde.
      The second point is a tribute of blood. Rus tried to otmazatsya from him in every possible way and, in my opinion, since the time of the children of Alexander Nevsky we have not given a centralized tribute of blood. As part of the Horde troops, the Russians fought only on a voluntary basis, like mercenaries. And after the adoption of the Horde of Islam, the tribute of blood became completely impossible.
      The third point is the tribute itself.
      All three signs took place in Russia in relation to the Horde only until the end of the XIII century., The first remained until the end of the XIV century. (In fact, Vasily I became the Grand Duke of his own free will, and not by the will of the Horde, where they simply had to confirm this fact by making a good face in a bad game), the latter - a tribute - before standing on the Ugra.
      Quote: XII legion
      No wonder some principalities simply bought - for example, Pereyaslavsky

      There is an inaccuracy.
      The principality of Pereyaslavl went to Moscow under the will of Prince Ivan Dmitrievich Pereyaslavsky, the last prince of this land and legally remained in the region of the Grand Duchy, and Moscow owned Pereyaslavl not as a patrimony, but on holding rights, although, in fact, it ruled independently. Labels were bought for Rostov, Uglich, Galich, if my memory serves me, and they were not bought for Moscow, but again for the Grand Duchy, legally this meant that the Horde tribute (exclusively!) Was collected by the Grand Duke in these principalities. In fact -
      you know yourself. smile
      Quote: XII legion
      Interesting article
      And the base is rich

      I agree. More such articles. I was especially interested in the information about tribute to the Tatars from the Zemaiti lands - originally Lithuanian. Why? It will be necessary to inquire into this issue substantively.
      1. XII Legion
        XII Legion 14 October 2017 15: 45 New
        17
        Rather, three signs.

        I agree. Made a reservation
        And yet - Ivan Kalita, and not Michael, of course. Thinking at that moment about another prince laughing
        I was especially interested in the information about tribute to the Tatars from the Zemaiti lands - originally Lithuanian.

        I'm also very interested
        Like this
        Polish-Lithuanian authorities returned to the Tatars "servants", escaped or taken out by the Cossacks, with the punishment of those responsible

        Did not know hi
        1. Luga
          Luga 14 October 2017 16: 49 New
          +5
          Quote: XII legion
          And yet - Ivan Kalita, and not Michael, of course.

          Mikhail Tverskoy is quite suitable both in context and as an example illustrating a thought, even more than Kalita, because he was killed directly in the Horde, and the figure was large, bigger at that moment in Russia and there was no one, but Kalita, nevertheless, died at home.
          Quote: XII legion
          Did not know

          I still don’t know. smile You need to check. It hurts unexpected information, it is strange that they have never come across anywhere before.
    3. Korsar4
      Korsar4 14 October 2017 20: 34 New
      0
      Everything, in general, is true. Only, however, Ivan Kalita.
    4. zoolu350
      zoolu350 15 October 2017 04: 37 New
      +3
      And ON was an alternative center for collecting land, the problem was in the religious (ideological) component. While Olgerd and Witold were rushing between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the ON retained the chances of victory, but with the adoption of the imperial concept of Ivan 3 and the Catholic ideology in the ON, the victory of Russia became only a matter of time.
  10. Sedoy
    Sedoy 14 October 2017 15: 05 New
    +2
    Ukrainians - well, these are definitely purebred ... :)

    1. Nurtai
      Nurtai 16 October 2017 17: 05 New
      0
      But the Ukrainians and Ukrainians of the time the same? Something there is doubt about it
  11. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 14 October 2017 19: 34 New
    +1
    Russian princes received a label from the Horde to collect tribute from their Russian lands.
    And the Lithuanian princes received a label from the Horde to collect tribute from Russian lands,
    who were part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
    I do not see any difference. All paid tribute to the Horde, independently under whose control they were.
    1. Cat
      Cat 14 October 2017 20: 26 New
      +1
      The Principality of Polotsk stands apart! It is in his case that distance matters. The influence of the "yoke" is minimal, compared with the rest of Russia.
      But playing with the concepts of “Lithuania” - “Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Russian”, it must be remembered that the eastern “Lithuania” was almost completely assimilated by the Russians. Remember the cities of Yuriev, Ivan-city, Yam-city. It was the feudal fragmentation and “yoke” that weakened, and in some, returned the north-west process of assimilation of the Baltic peoples. It got to the point that the "Horde kings and temniks" gave "help" to the sons of Alexander Nevsky in the fight against Lithuania. The Lithuanian princes themselves, in fact a series of dynastic marriages with the descendants of the Rurikovichs, were actually Russian by their upbringing, language and faith. In some matters, showing amazing flexibility in matters of faith. In the Russian lands they were Orthodox, in the Lithuanian - pagans, and in Poland - Catholics. "Paris is worth the Mass!"
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 14 October 2017 20: 37 New
        0
        And Polotsk alone. And the Galician mansion. That is, if you delve into, at different times, each principality had its own characteristics.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 14 October 2017 23: 51 New
        +1
        Here is a map of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Of course, this is a hodgepodge of captured, joined, dependent small principalities. There are pagans, and Orthodox, and Catholics. But the Horde (and later its parts) was long - 300 years old - militarily strong.
        Both Lithuanians and Russians periodically fought with the Tatars. Sometimes battles won. But they lost much more often. And had to pay tribute.
  12. Doliva63
    Doliva63 14 October 2017 20: 36 New
    +4
    There was no Tatar-Mongol yoke.
  13. Operator
    Operator 14 October 2017 21: 10 New
    +1
    Russians and Belarusians, on the one hand, and Ukrainians, on the other hand, in their haplotypes have an equal share of the Aryan haplogroup R1a and Illyrian haplogroup I (in the sum of the order of 70%), but they differ in the composition of minority haplogroups - the Russian and Belarusians are dominated by the Ugro-Finnish NXNUM (1%), among Ukrainians - the Mongolian С1, the North Semitic J15 and the Hamitic E2 (in the amount of 2%), despite the fact that among the Russians and Belarusians these haplogroups are found at the level of 1%.

    This clearly shows for whom the Tatar-Mongol yoke had great consequences in terms of partial assimilation by the filthy.
    1. ukoft
      ukoft 14 October 2017 21: 54 New
      0
      well, either you don’t know or intentionally omit some facts.
      as you know, the basis of the golden horde of Kypchaks. direct descendants of the Kypchaks, Nogais, Kazakhs, especially the Kipchak clan.
      so these descendants in the r1log group P1a are found in places P3b. but they have a different marker. with the Slavs, the common ancestor of years differs by 4000-XNUMX.
      as for the North Semitic and Hamitic, this is certainly not the case for the Golden Horde and the Mongol invasion.
      about c2 and it's not Mongolian they have C3. so these groups were never in the western steppe (the right bank of the Volga). it is present in the Mongols of Kazakhs and Kalmyks. no one else.

      so that your speculation tell in other places
      in sou
      1. Operator
        Operator 14 October 2017 22: 34 New
        0
        What do you smoke - all the carriers of haplogroup P disappeared years ago, 30000 years ago, leaving behind their descendants as subsidiary haplogroups R and Q.

        Before writing about someone’s speculation, take the trouble to study the materiel - currently the Mongolian haplogroup is designated as C2 (it used to be designated as C3). It is C2 that is the dominant haplogroup among the Mongols and Kazakhs, all other haplogroups (especially the Aryan R1a) are minor.

        The Nogais are a hodgepodge - in their haplotype there is completely no dominant haplogroup

        1. ukoft
          ukoft 15 October 2017 19: 31 New
          0
          Latin typing laziness was therefore in Russian typed. R1a in Nogais. See the Kypchaks all r1a in the majority. The same Kyrgyz r1a more than Russian. When the Mongols came, it was mainly the Kipchaks who are r1a. Those Nogais who live among Caucasians are crazy, but this happened later. Also Torquay they are Oguzes carriers r1b. Stop showing your illiteracy. You do not own the topic.
          1. Operator
            Operator 15 October 2017 21: 25 New
            0
            Very literate, first learn to distinguish C2 from C3.

            No one knows the haplotype of Polovtsy (Kipchaks) and Torques (black hoods), since the Russians sprayed them onto atoms.

            The Oghuz Turks had the same haplotype that their direct descendants now have - modern Turkmens with the dominant Celtic haplogroup R1b and the minor Mongol C2.
  14. Nurtai
    Nurtai 16 October 2017 17: 07 New
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    Quote: Operator
    Very literate, first learn to distinguish C2 from C3.

    No one knows the haplotype of Polovtsy (Kipchaks) and Torques (black hoods), since the Russians sprayed them onto atoms.

    The Oghuz Turks had the same haplotype that their direct descendants now have - modern Turkmens with the dominant Celtic haplogroup R1b and the minor Mongol C2.

    Weird! Did the Oguzes not migrate to Turkey at one time? Then they began to be called Ottomans, then Turks?
    1. Operator
      Operator 17 October 2017 19: 40 New
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      The Oghuz Turks who migrated to the Anatolian Peninsula (future Turkey) were few in comparison with the indigenous local population - the Northern Semites: the dominant haplogroup J2 (green), minor R1a (red, the legacy of the Mittanian Aryans).

      Currently, the dominant Oguz haplogroup (Celtic R1b, pink) occupies only the second place in the haplotype of modern Turks, and the third place is R1a.

  15. ver_
    ver_ 28 July 2018 11: 01 New
    0
    Quote: parusnik
    Short and to the point ...

    ... one complete idiocy .. Mongolia was founded in 1920 .. There can be no mention of the Mongols at all earlier than this date .. due to the lack of these ..