Military Review

Cosmos or kingdom of heaven?

145
It would seem - how can religious themes be so relevant in the 21st century? After all, freedom of conscience has become an inalienable human right, including in Russia. What are the disputes and conflicts? But no, free society with this conclusion hurried.


Here is a recent example: in some cities, as their residents noticed, posters appeared with strange content and mystical-religious themes: portraits of the royal family (different variations), the text “Holy royal martyrs, pray God for us and for the revival of Holy Russia” and the message that at that time "... the Tsarist Family was ritually murdered."

Cosmos or kingdom of heaven?

Poster "Ritual murder of the royal family." What kind of ignoramus wrote it, is the question?

The church and the authorities stated that they have no relation to this advertising campaign. Which is completely understandable. We will not even say that in accordance with the version of the majority of the hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, this was a political assassination. A completely different point of view belongs not to the clergy. An example is the opinion of only the church writer and cleric of the Georgian Orthodox Church, Archimandrite Raphael (Karelin), who is of the opinion that the execution in Yekaterinburg was precisely a ritual murder. Theories about the world Jewish backstage and the conspiracy of Kabbalist Jews are even more marginal. In addition, ritual murder is said in the book of M.K. Diterikhs "Murder of the Tsar's Family and members of the House of Romanov in the Urals", in the records of the monarchist, investigator N.A. Sokolov and facts from the book of the British journalist Robert Wilton's The Last Days of the Romanovs. Needless to say, all these works have nothing to do with science and facts, but are directly related to a sick fantasy, a penchant for mysticism, and for those reading, to being affected by sensation with a low level of scientific erudition.

But to ask where did this come from in a country that 70 has set and implemented for years the task of forming a fundamental system worldview? Why suddenly around 20% of the population believe that the sun revolves around the earth, and not vice versa?

It is possible that the idea of ​​religious education and morality, understood exclusively in the religious context, replacing knowledge and fact with faith and miracle turned out to be for our society not a path to the light, but to mysticism and superstition.

Yes, this topic in society is not very popular now. But it is worth bearing in mind the fact that the Russian Federation is a secular state in which millions of non-believers live, who are guaranteed by the Constitution the right to remain so. As believers have the right ...

Two social institutions express the worldview of those and others: the church and science. State institutions and civil society, their relationship to these institutions can shape the vector of development, determining the future of the people.

What about the choice of Russia?
In order to have influence in society, a social institution always needs an economic and legal basis. Such a base for the church was created already in 1990-ies: from December 31 1991 No. 135-рп “On the return of buildings and religious literature to the Russian Orthodox Church”; from 31 December 1991, No. 135-rp "On the return of buildings and religious literature to the Russian Orthodox Church"; from 31 December 1991, No. 135-rp "On the return of buildings and religious literature to the Russian Orthodox Church." The question remains about ownership and the exercise of this right.

In 2000, the jubilee Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church sent a letter to the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin, in which he noted that the process of the return of church property in Russia "was not only not completed, but had not really begun," and called for the transfer of churches, icons, shrines, premises for Sunday schools, theological schools, shelters, regional church institutions, as well as land for the monastic household economy.

The modern church is a full-fledged social institution, it is given including powerful means of propaganda. According to the Department of Justice in the Penza region, 2002 religious organizations operated on 297 for the year, including 191 Orthodox (64%), 59 Muslim (20%), 30 Protestant (10%) and 2 Jewish (0,6%). By 2016, their number increased to 468, including 64% Orthodox, 20% Muslim, 10% Protestant and 0,6% Jewish. All local TV channels, most newspapers and information portals are printed daily. news life of the Orthodox Church. With the support of local TV channels, such as Express and 11 channel, Orthodox television programs are being shot, which are subsequently broadcast on the Soyuz TV channel, which is available in all cable networks of the city.

Calls for national reconciliation through the condemnation of Stalin’s crime and attempts to erect monuments to martyrs and new martyrs who suffered from repression and revolution have also become a trend of recent years. But the question is: can this serve as the basis of national reconciliation? Does this not lead to a split of society due to the polarization of opinions?

And why we don’t recall, for example, the victims of numerous articles for derogation from Orthodoxy and the thought-crime in the Criminal Code of the Russian Empire 1846 (“Code of Punishments”): penal servitude, deprivation of all rights, confiscation of property, imprisonment or a strait-house, 50 -60 strikes with rods, link to the soldiers. Most of the convicts died within a year after the exile, many on the way, and their families, left without a breadwinner, were doomed to begging or also died, especially children. Damage to people by striking with a stick or with a rod, to the extent specified in the Punishment Code, is incompatible with life. The damage to health that was inflicted during the punishment with sticks or rods would not allow the “commoners” to continue to engage in physical labor, the results of which they and their families lived. These are hundreds of thousands of people per century. Not? Is this not the basis of reconciliation?

It is wonderful that we have a law protecting the "feelings of believers." And it’s great that they can express them in different ways, for example, smash art exhibitions (Moscow), attack human rights activists (St. Petersburg), insult people who do not adhere to religious beliefs (Kotlas) and other examples. It is bad that other part of the society does not have such rights. The prosecutor's office does not initiate cases on the relevant facts.

An important aspect of the interaction of the church, state and society continues to be the issue of transferring property to the church. Alas, human rights activists, pickets and all those who disagree with the transfer of objects of state and municipal property to religious organizations can stand with posters of any length, but the result will not be.

Art. 3 FZ of November 30 2010 FN N 327-FZ “On the transfer to religious organizations of religious property in state or municipal property” establishes the rate of gratuitous transfer of state or municipal property to religious organizations to religious organizations. In accordance with Art. 5 of the same law may even be transferred to religious organizations of cultural heritage. The land plot on which religious property is located is transferred to a religious organization as a property free of charge. True, the law states that objects can be transferred into ownership or for free use. And one more important point worth mentioning is that the transfer of religious property from state or municipal property to religious organizations is consistent with the international obligations of the Russian Federation in accordance with the Conclusion of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe No. 193 (1996) at the request of Russia to join the Council of Europe: : “10. The Parliamentary Assembly takes note that ... Russia intends: ... XII) to return the property of religious organizations as soon as possible. "

What are the pickets, but at least a demonstration ...
To initiate the transfer of a religious object to the property of a religious organization, it is necessary to submit an application to the state or municipal authorities to which the object belongs. And agree. Moreover, the list of grounds for refusal is not impressive: 1) this property is not a property of a religious purpose; 2) the purpose of using this property declared by a religious organization does not correspond to the objectives of the activity stipulated by the charter of a religious organization or federal law; 3) an application for the transfer of this property is submitted by a foreign religious organization or its representative office; 4) a court decision that has entered into legal force provides for a different procedure for disposing of this property; 5) this property is in the free use of another religious organization.

Ownership of property, of course, strengthens the position of the social institution, makes it a force with which society and the state should be considered.

And this is very noticeable in the example of the regulation of relations between the state and science. Especially the weakening of science as a social institution became noticeable from the 2013 year, when “without declaring war” the reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences was begun, which was not decided to be touched under any authority, and which enjoyed wide autonomy. It does not have such powerful propaganda tools as the ROC has, the number of scientific journals is decreasing, the number of scientific workers is decreasing. The number of scientific societies and organizations, centers of scientific and technical creativity is not even close to the figures we cited earlier for the number of religious organizations in the Penza region. Not to mention television, radio broadcasts, the transfer of municipal and state buildings.

But the deprivation of science as a social institution of property and, as a result, of weight and perspectives in society, is quite obvious. Ownership is the basis of the independence of a social institution. One of the key demands of the reform of the Academy of Sciences was the alienation of the right to property management in favor of a specially created federal agency of scientific organizations (FANO). The RAS resisted, a moratorium was imposed on the alienation of property, President Putin personally supported these demands of the RAS and made promises.

And here is the result of the five-year struggle of the Russian Academy of Sciences for its property: according to the order of the Russian government, "the FANO of Russia is charged with fulfilling the functions and powers of the owner of federal property assigned to these organizations, as well as the powers of the founder of these organizations." FANO is now the owner. Of course, this can be understood: we must somehow compensate for the losses from the transfer of objects and lands to religious organizations.

But there is no change for the better in Russian science. The reaction of the scientific community is overwhelmingly negative, the entire expert and scientific community opposed the reform, pointing out the risks. But civil society and its opinion were not taken into account. But if for the church we are a flock and everything is clear, then the officials are the servants of the people. But no, and here the same backstage policy of making decisions on socially important issues that are strategic for state and national development.

Result: according to the results of research, the RAS reform failed. It remains a chronic underfunding, lack of funds for the purchase of instruments and new modern equipment, the possibility of conducting experimental and expeditionary works, the transfer of objects belonging to the Russian Academy of Sciences from federal to municipal property has plummeted. But after all, the federal budget does not pull science, let alone the municipal one.

There was a scandal even with the land experimental areas in the Timiryazev Academy. You can also pay attention to the problem of the Far Eastern Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which the land plots that were previously in their gratuitous use cannot fix. At the same time there is construction in progress, since these sites are transferred to the construction organization for the construction of a residential complex. Near bacteriological laboratories and morgue. In addition, the regulatory definition of the boundaries of the construction zone in Akademgorodok does not allow the institutes of the Far East Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences to improve and develop sanitary zones and the system of protective measures of their institutions.

The ideology of self-financing science is flawed. All over the world, science has government support. And for the humanities, the state is almost the only major investor. But today in Russia there is no department responsible for the development of basic research and defense science. In the basic parameters of the budget for 2016, there is no “science” line at all. Funding for science in the 2016 year reached a historic minimum: 306 billion rubles, which is 20% less than in the 2015 year, and more than three times less than in the 2012 year. FANO Russia in the 2015 year in the allocation of funds for these purposes has implemented the principle of residual funding. With the sequestration of the budget in 2015, the FANO reduced the amount of subsidies for fulfilling the state task for 5% (3 billion rubles), and the amount of financial support for the programs of the Presidium of the Russian Academy of Sciences - by 50% (2,7 billion rubles). As a result, the amount of funding for projects of the Presidium Programs of the Russian Academy of Sciences, carried out in such strategic priority areas as research in the interests of the development of the Arctic region, defense and security, mathematical modeling, and medical subjects, was reduced. But the achievement - in 2017, a new scientific specialty - theology appeared.

Of course, it is obvious that such a situation requires fundamental changes. We refer to the opinion of the famous scientist L.S. Klein, who summarized his position on this issue: “introduce radical measures to encourage businesses to invest in science and education. The business needs to be supported by universities, not churches. And most importantly, if the state wants to really get up from its knees and take the lead in the world, it should be at least three times - four times the share of allocations for science and education. And that means redirecting cash flows. ”

Dear society, are we turning that social institution into a club of interests, knocking out its economic foundation from under its feet?

If you do not respond to the current situation, then in the coming years, Russian science will face further degradation and marginalization. Optimism is no place yet.

But for the church, this scenario is not optimistic yet, according to population polls. Some of the largest sociological institutes in the country about once a year include questions on religious identification in their basic questionnaire (the so-called omnibus). These polls gave a steadily growing dynamics for two and a half decades. In 2008, the figures were equal to those desired by the church - about 63 — 75% of Russians considered themselves to be believers. And the church, through the mouth of Patriarch Cyril, recognized that only 10% of the population are “church members”. In 2010, the number of people who considered themselves Orthodox Christians, according to most polls, reached a peak and began to fall. After that, the majority of sociological foundations drastically reduced their research in this area or, in any case, refused to publicly analyze and present them. Russian monitoring of the economic situation and public health of HSE shows 70,9% for 2016 a year. The “core” of regular visitors to church services, at least in large cities and typical regions of Russia, is about 0,5% of the population (here, of course, more than 40 churches in one city are required for them). They have mastered the main church practices (participation in the liturgy, confession and the sacrament) and regularly perform them. The rest are “walkers”, the most common part. Together with parishioners, they make up about 2-4% of the population of the Russian Federation, who attend the church at least once a month and sometimes take communion. Let us use the words of the deacon Vladimir Shalmanov from the Georgievsky Deanery of the Stavropol Territory: “Most of the residents of the settlements of St. George’s Decency seem to consider themselves Orthodox, or at least sympathize with Orthodoxy. However, active Orthodox Christians (who regularly attend divine services and participate in the Sacraments) constitute no more than 0,4-1% (in the villages their share is smaller, in the cities - more) of the total number of baptized people in Orthodoxy. ” These figures can be explained in different ways, but the most probable interpretation is: “Orthodoxy” is a way of ethnic, rather than religious identification. Religious denomination, with which people associate themselves, does not always allow to refer them to believers: for example, in the survey of the “Levada Center” 40% “Orthodox” confessed that they do not believe in God. And it is abundantly clear that these figures have no relation to real believers.

As we see, both social institutions - both science and the church - have quite a lot of problems. Here are just one of them, these problems are actively helping to solve, while the other consistently deprive the possibilities of preservation and protection.

The choice, apparently, for society, civil and expert community. In most regions, platforms have been created that allow discussing such issues and finding a mutually acceptable solution. This is the direction in which to move towards the achievement of social harmony.
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  1. Catherine II
    Catherine II 12 October 2017 15: 17
    20
    Hot topic. With the development of the media and the abundance of available sources, the Middle Ages is developing instead of physics and chemistry!
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 12 October 2017 15: 53
      14
      Quote: Catherine II
      Middle Ages is developing instead of physics and chemistry!

      Shpakovsky wrote crap. repeat
      1. Blombir
        Blombir 12 October 2017 16: 02
        20
        Gundyaev eager for power eyes bulging with zeal. If it hits, we all seem like a sheepskin.
        1. Diana Ilyina
          Diana Ilyina 12 October 2017 17: 23
          32
          Blombir Today, 16:02 PM ↑ New
          Gundyaev eager for power eyes bulging with zeal.
          Yes, the priests led by Gundyaev generally lost the coast in an effort to get everything that is possible and that is impossible. Or maybe they should return the serfs as well ?! The church was the number one serfman in the Republic of Ingushetia, so will the ROC return all land with villages and serfs ?! Or maybe then immediately return the tithe to the church, otherwise the patriarch will not have enough extra fees for the new Maybach and Rolex ?!
          St. Isaac's Cathedral is a national treasure built by the people and taken from the people with money, however, like all other cathedrals, so what does the Russian Orthodox Church have to do with it ?!
          They are trying hard to replace science at school with the “word of God,” children have been fooled since childhood and forcibly dragged into a church, which in its essence is no different from other sectarians. The only difference is that the ROC itself has appropriated the right to be more right than the rest.
          Ugh, disgusting!
          1. AleBors
            AleBors 12 October 2017 18: 45
            +7
            "by the word of God," children have been fooled from childhood. ".. And ads, modern cartoons and movies with toys sow eternal values?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 14 October 2017 00: 48
              +6
              What "eternal" values ​​are we talking about? Serfdom and church tithe are your eternal values? Or maybe corporal punishment incompatible with life for denying YOUR eternal values?
              1. AleBors
                AleBors 14 October 2017 10: 44
                +2
                I recommend reading the patristic heritage .. At least Ignatius Brianchaninova. And you will understand everything, I hope. And your words are juggling ...
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 14 October 2017 16: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: AleBors
                  I recommend reading the patristic heritage ..

                  You can’t explain anything in your own words?
          2. CONTROL
            CONTROL 13 October 2017 11: 33
            +4
            Quote: Diana Ilyina
            Ugh, disgusting!

            Do not spit (those) against the wind! And not ss ..
            It will hit the eye! Or already horrible? ...
        2. AleBors
          AleBors 14 October 2017 10: 45
          +3
          The Patriarch really has ONLY so much power that he does not need secular power at all. Sorry, but you said stupidity.
          1. Blombir
            Blombir 15 October 2017 09: 47
            +2
            Quote: AleBors
            The Patriarch really has ONLY so much power that he does not need secular power at all. Sorry, but you said stupidity.

            Was Gundyaev afraid of it, or did he invent it himself now? What Gundyaev really does not need is to pay taxes to the treasury, he does not pay. And the treasury itself is still as needed!
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 12 October 2017 20: 38
        +7
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        Shpakovsky wrote crap.

        Can it be justified? wink
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 12 October 2017 23: 38
          +5
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Can it be justified?

          Can. But the best is not necessary. drinks
          1. Maksus
            Maksus 13 October 2017 00: 38
            +5
            Better yet - write correctly)
            1. Baloo
              Baloo 13 October 2017 08: 07
              +3
              Quote: Maksus
              Better yet - write correctly)

              Better more reasoned and weighty.
            2. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 00: 57
              +3
              Quote: Maksus
              Better yet - write correctly)

              Don’t worry, everything is fine with the spelling. Do not believe me, at school I was a loser ... crying
    2. CONTROL
      CONTROL 13 October 2017 11: 19
      +3
      Quote: Catherine II
      Hot topic. With the development of the media and the abundance of available sources, the Middle Ages is developing instead of physics and chemistry!

      In the "developed Middle Ages" most scientists studied - to become scientists! - in church or monastery schools, and many remained monks at the same time! Giordano Bruno, for example ... By the way - he was not publicly burned at the stake for heliocentric cosmogony at all (in the verdict put on public display there was not a word about it ...), but for heresy sewn to him by “brothers in faith” ! intraglane intrigues common in the Middle Ages - hoaxing, denunciations ...
    3. region58
      region58 14 October 2017 00: 31
      +4
      Quote: Catherine II
      Hot topic. With the development of the media and the abundance of available sources, the Middle Ages is developing instead of physics and chemistry!

      Alas, unfortunately everything is so ...
  2. AleBors
    AleBors 12 October 2017 15: 46
    +8
    I looked at the names of the authors, and I understood everything ...
    1. Deck
      Deck 12 October 2017 15: 55
      +7
      Are you a Nazi? clarify please
      1. Blombir
        Blombir 12 October 2017 16: 04
        20
        If you call a Jew a Jew, do you automatically join the Nazis? Enough to prostitut already.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 12 October 2017 17: 03
          +9
          and besides the fact that Vyacheslav a Jew has claims? for example, to the content of the article? there are many in the world friend Horace of good Rabinovich and Katsey ..
          1. AleBors
            AleBors 12 October 2017 18: 42
            +4
            There is, friend Fabio ... But in this context we see otherwise.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 12 October 2017 20: 55
              +9
              I don’t know what your context is. but the fact that Vyacheslav I have known since 90. you would have made at least half how much it is. And judging by the names of people, you’ll always get into an extreme rear position ..
        2. Deck
          Deck 12 October 2017 18: 47
          +3
          What is a Nazi a Nazi? Here you can definitely be called a demagogue
          1. AleBors
            AleBors 12 October 2017 19: 18
            +4
            I will ask you to justify. Or I will consider it an insult
      2. AleBors
        AleBors 12 October 2017 18: 40
        +2
        I am a Russian nationalist. No need to replace concepts.
        1. Deck
          Deck 12 October 2017 19: 19
          +5
          And I'm an internationalist. From the pioneers. Well, we will be familiar.
          1. AleBors
            AleBors 12 October 2017 19: 21
            +6
            How is that? Both ours and yours? Is there some kind of pivot in your "internationalism"? So, for consideration: in the Russian Federation 86% of the population consider themselves Russian ... We are a mononational country.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 12 October 2017 20: 41
              +8
              Quote: AleBors
              And I'm an internationalist.

              Can I clarify YOUR nationality? laughing And then almost all internationalists are entirely Klimovskie characters ... repeat
              1. AleBors
                AleBors 13 October 2017 08: 23
                +1
                I am Russian ... God knows what generation already
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 13 October 2017 08: 45
                  0
                  Quote: AleBors
                  I am Russian...

                  The question was not for you, but for Deck. Why that citation showed you. request
            2. Deck
              Deck 12 October 2017 20: 44
              10
              This position is disgusting to me as a mother Oktyabryonka. You deny a person the right to consider himself Russian based on his last name. Do you have the same surname? And the shape of the nose, ears? And if the genetic analysis shows the presence of Tatar, German or, say, Jewish blood. The rod will not break wink Anyway, we live in the multinational Russian Federation
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 12 October 2017 21: 06
                +8
                Quote: Deck
                Anyway, we live in the multinational Russian Federation

                Where the most disadvantaged people is Russian, with an absolute majority. Compare on budget subsidies. special attention to the holidays of small nations in the media. I respect all the indigenous peoples of Russia. but it is not necessary to single out and lick the national feelings of some, while completely ignoring the others. With the federal structure of the state, this is fraught. hi
                P.S. I respect Shpakovsky (Caliber) as an intelligent person, regardless of nationality, although I do not always agree with him.
                P.P.S. By the way, I am not ashamed of my nationality - Belarus. At heart - Great Russia.
                1. Baloo
                  Baloo 12 October 2017 23: 12
                  +7
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Where the most disadvantaged people is Russian

                  For me, a Tatar living in Tatar is news. Who infringes on the Russians?
                  We have a lot of Russians in the local government, the Russian Interior Minister. Professors, scientists are also most Russian. What special rogue Russians do you mean? I have a Russian wife, Russian son-in-law, and a colleague in one office, we are sitting Russian. Straight cognitive dissonance.
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 13 October 2017 06: 25
                    +1
                    Quote: Balu
                    For me, a Tatar living in Tatar is news.

                    About the nat question in Yakutia google. hi
                    1. tasha
                      tasha 13 October 2017 06: 41
                      +2
                      About the nat question in Yakutia google.


                      Yeah, they will write to you from Yakutia, so you will start about Tuva ... wink
                      Write about the national question in the Russian Federation. And if you flip a coin? Where are the Russians-always a national question? So we arrived, get out ...
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 13 October 2017 06: 59
                        +4
                        Quote: tasha
                        so you start about Tuva ...

                        Of course I'll start! Then I will continue about Chukotka! Doesn’t it bother yourself that in one state some peoples have more rights? wink
                  2. CONTROL
                    CONTROL 13 October 2017 11: 50
                    +3
                    Quote: Balu
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Where the most disadvantaged people is Russian

                    For me, a Tatar living in Tatar is news. Who infringes on the Russians?
                    .

                    here in Tatarstan it seems to everyone like a drum - what nationality are you! In rural areas - more in the leadership of the Tatars, therefore - it’s necessary to get along with the population ... But in cities - in different ways, there are a lot of “chosen” people and long-time immigrants from the “404 country” ...
                    ------------------------
                    here with the Tatar language in schools, yes - an excess! In the city, in fact, no one wants to study and know him (both Russians and Tatars) - they speak it in a colloquial volume; but in life and work it is "not functional." In the village - everyone is taught in school (and they used to be taught), because - it is necessary for life ...
                2. Setrac
                  Setrac 14 October 2017 00: 59
                  +1
                  Enough already to carry this nonsense about the "indigenous peoples", in Russia one of the indigenous peoples is the Russians. And then you have all the indigenous peoples except the Russians, for example, Jews are the most indigenous people of Russia - because they have their own autonomy, and the Germans have nowhere else to root, because they had their own autonomy in Russia before the war, but the evil Russians ousted them with " of their "land.
              2. AleBors
                AleBors 13 October 2017 08: 24
                +2
                I was also an October Revolutionary, a pioneer ... even a Komsomol member. And then I grew up. Unlike many peers.
                1. Deck
                  Deck 13 October 2017 10: 25
                  +4
                  This is just very modern: a communist, security officer, a fighter with religious prejudices and an excellent student in scientific communism, and then again, in the church with a candle in the church, confessors and all things.
                  1. AleBors
                    AleBors 13 October 2017 12: 28
                    +1
                    Are you about yourself? I just never was an atheist. Searched, thought ... Found. So do not unreasonably suspect something ..
                    Now about the “once in the Church” .. I know many who came to Vera after some upheaval ... So let this not surprise you.
                    Regarding "all things," what did you mean?
              3. The comment was deleted.
            3. Black5Raven
              Black5Raven 13 October 2017 17: 58
              0
              Quote: AleBors
              in Russia 86% of the population consider themselves Russian ... We are a mononational country.

              Consider = / = are. This is so, by the way. And not mono-ethnic, these are two. The constitution spells out wink
  3. PKTRL
    PKTRL 12 October 2017 15: 55
    +3
    Error!
    They are not martyrs, but martyrs.
    1. Blombir
      Blombir 12 October 2017 16: 02
      11
      Not a mistake, but an intentional forgery.
    2. cedar
      cedar 12 October 2017 16: 27
      +4
      If they were killed by co-religionists, then the martyrs.
      If they were killed by the Gentiles, then the martyrs.
      1. WapentakeLokki
        WapentakeLokki 12 October 2017 19: 05
        13
        And if they were beaten by atheists, then? The story is muddy and both Sverdlov (a Jew) and Lenin (a semi-Jew) were noted there, and the performers are their Vanki-Petki. So the Romanovs were scored for the case. If the Tsar brought to himself a well-received from father Russia to the 2 Revolutions and stupidly gave himself to kill (with the whole family that generally about him as a husband and father, well, no way) then he endured loshara but no matter how holy. Fact.
  4. Varyag77
    Varyag77 12 October 2017 16: 06
    +5
    Well, there is a theory that it was a ritual murder of the White Tsar. Can authors refute this? I think it’s unlikely .. But for example, I read Dahl’s book. Yes, the very one who wrote the dictionary of the Russian language. And the theme of the book was, the sacrifice of Slavic children by Jews in the Russian Empire. And he wrote it as claimed by the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Ingushetia. Very entertaining reading with elements of a choir. So it’s safe to say that the killing of the royal family was not ritual, I wouldn’t do it .. it’s the same as saying “Is there a God” .. it's 50/50. Either there is or not.
  5. cedar
    cedar 12 October 2017 16: 23
    +6
    Lifeboats and rafts on passenger liners are also empty, but would you see what happens when the ship sinks ... Overload and not a single empty seat ...
    There are more, more churches that could accommodate believers and non-believers, scientists and not so much ... Anyone who wants to be saved.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 12 October 2017 20: 54
      +2
      Quote: cedar
      More, more churches

      What denomination? wink
      Quote: cedar
      Anyone who wants to be saved.

  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 12 October 2017 19: 02
      +1
      Quote: Conductor
      and N 2 and his wife

      Alexandra Fedorovna what she did so that, as you put it ....
      Quote: Conductor
      their place is simply in the grave.

      Here you are mistaken, burned with sulfuric acid, then burned, and you ......
      Quote: Conductor
      May they rest in peace

      Read the memories Isai Rodzinsky, or Yakov Yurovsky
      1. Pre-cat
        Pre-cat 13 October 2017 06: 14
        +2
        Quote: bober1982
        Alexandra Fedorovna did exactly what, as you put it ..

        A historical fact, then Alexandra Fedorovna had a considerable influence on the snake. And Nikolai made a number of decisions with her submission. So we entered into a completely disadvantageous alliance with France and England. The Empress was very “For”. After all, despite her German origin, she was the beloved granddaughter of Queen Victoria and was brought up at her court for a long time.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 13 October 2017 08: 08
          +1
          Quote: The cat is half-educated
          Historical fact

          But this is a lie that was spread by liberal newspaper people, and you are talking about some facts.
  7. Ace Tambourine
    Ace Tambourine 12 October 2017 17: 11
    15
    I didn’t understand it ... Our Church is separated from the State or what?
    Well, that's not against religion, Faith and the Church, but let them not go into the system of statehood and education ...
    1. AleBors
      AleBors 12 October 2017 18: 43
      +4
      Then others will crawl.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 12 October 2017 20: 56
        +2
        Quote: AleBors
        Then others will crawl.

        But this system is created artificially. Divide and rule.
        1. AleBors
          AleBors 13 October 2017 08: 25
          +1
          Not quite as it seems to me. Others just have a more serious administrative and financial resource.
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 13 October 2017 11: 55
        +4
        Quote: AleBors
        Then others will crawl.

        Here as with the army: If you don’t want to feed YOUR church, you will feed someone else’s!
        1. AleBors
          AleBors 13 October 2017 12: 34
          +2
          Maybe in some ways ... Spiritual warfare has been going on since the creation of the world.
          From the observations ... In the heading of the above article there is a photo of a billboard with the royal family .. And it is amazing that such images simply infuriate "secular" and "God in the soul" characters. But the images of naked asses, products from unknown reasons, advertising of idiotic films leave their subtle souls in complete balance .. Surprisingly, right?
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 14 October 2017 01: 39
            +2
            Quote: AleBors
            Amazing right

            And there is nothing surprising here, the look of the naked ass of a young woman (we are not shown on the ass of wrinkled old men on TV) contributes to the development of the so-called hormone of happiness in men, and the appearance of a fat man in a cassock, or a moron who has shaved off an empire, causes nothing but rejection.
            It’s a pity that Gorbachev did not become ... a stratospher.
  8. bober1982
    bober1982 12 October 2017 18: 52
    +7
    If the Church and the authorities are not related to the established posters (as stated in the article), then what is there to talk about? Monstrous pressure is exerted on the Church - insults, lies, slander, provocations. And a hundred years ago, these same forces, with the help of corrupt newspapers, writers, pseudo-scientists, talkers, provocations
    Ators set people on the Church, everything repeats.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 12 October 2017 20: 58
      11
      Quote: bober1982
      provocateurs set people on the Church
      Is the church soft and fluffy? wink
      1. CONTROL
        CONTROL 13 October 2017 11: 56
        +3
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Is the church soft and fluffy? wink

        ... go down (those) touch (those)!
      2. AleBors
        AleBors 13 October 2017 14: 36
        +4
        “The church is not a gathering of saints, but a crowd of repenting sinners” (Rev. Ephraim the Syrian)
    2. long in stock.
      long in stock. 12 October 2017 21: 01
      +6
      Seriously? and what people called the priests long-billed? don’t you tell me? the newspaper men probably also tried ... and yes, who is they calling us the most famous provocateur? right pop Gapon ... common name. you say that not everyone is like that and I agree. but non-possessors as it’s very small. although all church precepts preach just that. how so? they teach one and do the other ..
      1. Pre-cat
        Pre-cat 13 October 2017 06: 04
        +7
        Set against the church? And you read any collection of Russian folk tales. Specially search the Internet for those that were published before the Soviet regime. And find there at least one positive image of the priest. They are all stupid, or greedy or crooks. Yes, and the current Russian Orthodox Church provides many examples for criticism. For example, it is interesting in what place of the Holy Scripture it is said, then for the baptism of a child you have to pay and often quite a lot of money?
        1. kalibr
          13 October 2017 07: 25
          +1
          Whitcliff's Heresy! "When Adam plowed and Eve spun - who was the master ?!"
        2. bober1982
          bober1982 13 October 2017 10: 00
          +2
          Quote: The cat is half-educated
          in what place of the Holy Scripture is said, then for the baptism of a child you have to pay, and often quite a lot of money?

          It’s not such big money, and they’ll baptize without money. Churches need to live on something, why be so outraged.
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 13 October 2017 10: 34
            +3
            and give a baptismal certificate? that's what to call it ... not without reason they say that Christ has not been allowed in the church for a long time ... and still do not forget the commercial activities of the church, which are not taxed, so there is something to live on ...
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 13 October 2017 10: 39
              +1
              Quote: Long in stock.
              so there is something to live on ...

              So, after all, I also say that one must live, not go in rags because walk and ride carts.
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 13 October 2017 11: 40
                +2
                but the dogmas of the church itself why trample it? I don’t urge them to live like a holy saint in pus. But to issue a certificate for baptism, the top of idiocy ..
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 13 October 2017 11: 53
                  +2
                  I don’t know about any certificates, and even if they give me something, he will ask for something.
                  1. a housewife
                    a housewife 18 October 2017 13: 39
                    +1
                    Not certificates, but a baptismal certificate. and so what. Why is it worse than a birth certificate? And our godson was baptized for free in a small village church. The priest and his family lived right there - there was a door to the house from the corridor. At the same time, he baptized adults, from among the guests who wished. Yes, they threw something into the drawer, as many as they wanted, nothing was assigned.
                    1. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 18 October 2017 14: 35
                      0
                      certificate ... that's just the point. that in a village church, I believe unconditionally. in large cities it’s not.
                      1. a housewife
                        a housewife 18 October 2017 16: 30
                        0
                        So it turns out that it depends on the local priest.
          2. Pre-cat
            Pre-cat 13 October 2017 16: 43
            +3
            They won’t be baptized without money - the price tag is rolled out immediately. And it’s not only a matter of price - it’s a matter of principle, because unbaptized people will go to hell. Consequently, not baptizing the infant for free in the church, in the event of his death dooms him to hellish torment. And where is mercy here? And remember Christ and the merchants in the temple.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 13 October 2017 17: 24
              +1
              Quote: The cat is half-educated
              because unbaptized go to hell

              Expensive Pre-catThe great Fathers of the Church and the saints did not know where they would go, and they did not tire of talking sincerely about this.
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 13 October 2017 12: 04
        +3
        Quote: long in stock.
        Seriously? and what people called the priests long-billed? don’t you tell me? the newspaper men probably also tried ... and yes, who is they calling us the most famous provocateur? right pop Gapon ... common name. you say that not everyone is like that and I agree. but non-possessors as it’s very small. although all church precepts preach just that. how so? they teach one and do the other ..

        Opponents and supporters of the faith as such have always been enough! Both in Russia and in the West ... as soon as they did not nickname and stigmatize ... as soon as they glorified they did not defend ...
        ... advise something to read Francois Rabelais? "Gargantua and Pantagruel" ... or Romain Rolland - "Saint Louis" ... or Victor Hugo - "Notre Dame de Paris" ... The contradiction on the contradiction is due to the nature of man!
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 13 October 2017 12: 22
          +3
          I read everything that was listed .. and I’m rereading it sometimes now. I’m not against believers, I’m against getting the church into the affairs of the state. Here they have flocks, let them donate. They want more, please. Increase the number of believers. But all at his own expense.
      3. kalibr
        13 October 2017 17: 25
        +3
        "And Balda condemned reproachfully, would you, chase, chase cheapness"
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 13 October 2017 23: 49
          +2
          they say in the original, this fairy tale is much more evil and scarce. there they horned the ass and popovyuffed ..
    3. Alex_59
      Alex_59 13 October 2017 07: 36
      10
      Quote: bober1982
      Monstrous pressure is exerted on the Church -

      There is such pressure that churches are being rebuilt in every village, even new ones are being built where they have never been, urban lands are being transferred to churches (the building of the medical academy has recently been transferred to the church, eviction of the city’s picture gallery and transfer of the church’s building are opening), new Orthodox kindergartens and schools, and for some reason the church’s “historical heritage” was transferred for some reason to the church built in the 70 years. There was even an attempt to squeeze the corps of a disbanded military school under a monastery. The president of the country goes to church, Kirill is taken in an armored car with guards, Christmas is a public holiday (why not? Why are Muslim holidays not public?), The church has its own TV channel and radio, and the hooligans dancing in the church are sent to prison, although on the scale of the deed they deserved a belt in the ass and nothing more. A law was adopted on responsibility for insulting the feelings of believers.
      To get pressure. Yes, so they pressed me like that.
      This is not pressure. This is the resistance of the thinking part of the population to the introduction of obscurantism to the detriment of scientific knowledge.
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 13 October 2017 08: 42
        +2
        Quote: Alex_59
        This is the resistance of the thinking part of the population to the introduction of obscurantism to the detriment of scientific knowledge.

        No, I do not agree with you. All that you said is the approach of the last time, the Church Fathers spoke about this (what is happening now) in antiquity.
        You can read in the book mentioned in the article by Archimandrite Raphael (Karelin) "Church and Peace on the Threshold of the Apocalypse "
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 13 October 2017 12: 24
        +5
        Quote: Alex_59
        Such pressure that we have spits everywhere in every village, churches are being restored, even new ones are being built where there have never been,

        ... for state budget money?
        ... Oh no? to parish ... to charities ... to donations ... Moreover, with taxes and fees, this whole thing is subject to the same conditions as - for example ... - Gazprom, or the Ural Car Building ...
        urban lands are being transferred to churches (the building of the medical academy has recently been transferred to a church, eviction of the city’s picture gallery and transfer of the church building are on the way), new Orthodox kindergartens and schools are being opened, and for some reason the church’s “historical heritage” was built in 70 years. There was even an attempt to squeeze the corps of a disbanded military school under a monastery
        . ... but they wouldn’t pass it - it fell apart from ownerlessness! Examples of this are the darkness of ruins in cities and villages across Russia!
        Why then are Muslim holidays not public?

        We have - are! just like Hegel ...
        the church has its own TV channel and radio,

        and there are "obscurantists" with higher education - professional art historians, practicing doctors (they are priests), acting scientists (natural scientists - physicists, chemists, mechanics ..., politicians and political scientists ... and just interesting people who are - say - "Echo of Moscow" or NTV no ...)
        and the hooligans dancing in the church are jailed, although in terms of the scale of their deeds they deserve an ass belt
        in! Here - I agree to 300%!
        This is the resistance of the thinking part of the population to the introduction of obscurantism to the detriment of scientific knowledge.
        ... well, who is what and what he thinks of! And to the detriment of what kind of "scientific" knowledge - what is in the RAS? which for so many years can not deal with its internal intrigues and clan squabbles!
        ... By the way - the same thing begins in the Russian Orthodox Church - a classic split!
        If you don’t want to feed your army, you will feed someone else’s![i] [/ i] If you don’t want to feed your church, you will feed someone else’s! Aum Shinrikyo, for example ... or the "Komsomol member" Davy Maria Christ ... or even the "god Kuzyu" - take a look at this character on the Internet!
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 13 October 2017 13: 16
          +5
          Quote: CONTROL
          ... Oh no? to parish ... to charity ... to donations ...

          Then a comrade was indignant that the church was being poisoned, spread rot, mocked and generally wanted to destroy. I gave examples that clearly demonstrate that in fact the church has been kindly given to us by the authorities. This I mean, the reason to yell about the persecution of the church is zero. Do what you want to donate, am I against it? But why bother with the hysteria that the church is being oppressed? Let's somehow adequately assess the situation.
          Quote: CONTROL
          . ... but wouldn’t have been handed over - collapsed from abandonment!

          The Medical Academy did not fall apart, it was active, students studied there. The art gallery is also operational. As a result, the military school was sold on a floor-by-floor basis and now there are offices (including my office, for rent).
          Quote: CONTROL
          We have - are!

          You ... I understand, yes. Bashkiria, Tatarstan ... But do we have equality? And a secular state? Why, then, is Orthodox Christmas a national holiday, and Muslim holidays are only regional? No, I'm not against the holidays. I’m generally Orthodox myself. But why such a bias? It's weird.
          Quote: CONTROL
          If you don’t want to feed your church, you will feed someone else’s!

          I do not need a church to communicate with God. Excuse me...
          1. AleBors
            AleBors 13 October 2017 14: 38
            +1
            Do you have a direct communication channel? belay And with what god?
            1. a housewife
              a housewife 18 October 2017 13: 42
              0
              Can't you communicate directly with God? Why so bad? The gospel says different !!!
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 October 2017 01: 08
          +3
          Quote: CONTROL
          ..a would not have passed - collapsed from abandonment! Examples of this are the darkness of ruins in cities and villages across Russia!

          We have transferred vocational schools to the monastery. Tell me, who was prevented from vocational schools, where were they trained workers? Now there is an institution in the form of the temple of God. By the way, the tavern went to church. Fat priests walk there, you can’t go around on a tank.
        3. Setrac
          Setrac 14 October 2017 01: 54
          +2
          Quote: CONTROL
          If you don’t want to feed your army, you will feed a stranger! [I] [/ i] Do not want to feed your church - you will feed a stranger!

          Do you want to sleep with your gays - will you sleep with strangers?
          This is called the "brain religion"
  9. datura23
    datura23 12 October 2017 19: 17
    +3
    suppose my free conscience allows me to dine with your children, my Rights !!! I think you are a man?
  10. SMP
    SMP 12 October 2017 20: 19
    +5
    Cosmos or kingdom of heaven?
    mystical religious theme
    Poster "Ritual murder of the royal family"
    It turned out to be a way for our society not to the light, but to mysticism and superstition.
    What about the choice of Russia?


    Property ownership, of course, strengthens the position of a social institution, makes it a force with which society and the state should be reckoned with.


    A sketch of some semantic blocks and in the end

    As we see, both social institutions - both science and the church - have quite a lot of problems. Here are just one of them, these problems are actively helping to solve, while the other consistently deprive the possibilities of preservation and protection.


    That is authors showed conflict two public institutes of the church and the scientific community.
    The conflict of irrational (faith) and rational (scientific fact)

    And they offer society to the judges.
    The choice, apparently, is for society, civil and expert community. In most regions, platforms have been created that allow discussing such issues, finding a mutually acceptable solution. Here is the direction in which it is worth moving to achieve social harmony.


    Modern fundamental science has moved so far that it is difficult for the average person to choose,
    this is why many resolve themselves, others have no time, the trouble is enough, and in this case it will decide active minority and with education worse than that of the inactive in social matters majority.
    As believers say To God Bogovo, Caesar Caesarean, the academic community must, and must, deal with the academic community, and not society as a whole, because the issues they solve are too complex.
    Better as it was always the RAS and scientists who were not included in this structure, it is a hundred times better than socially active mediocrity, as literate people will be careful, because education gives self-criticism.
    But the issue of ownership or not to transfer something to the church is very much within the power of the whole society.
    The article is not about anything, it’s already clear.
    1. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 12 October 2017 23: 03
      +7
      Quote: SMP
      But the issue of ownership or not to transfer something to the church is very much within the power of the whole society.

      Oh, your words ... This is me to the recent dances around St. Isaac's Cathedral. Society was explicitly invited to wipe off and not shine. Especially, considering what kind of pack is now dug in our city Zak Assembly. The more or less adequate deputies who opposed the transfer of Isaac to the priests, "colleagues" trampled, anathematizing. And, by the way, the voices of scientists, representatives of the same RAS, were not heard (ignored). This is not the first time that our local herd of sheep from the authorities has been transformed, if necessary, into a flock of hyenas, in order to tear those who have expressed the opposite opinion, this mechanism has been worked out since the time of the ever-memorable bridge.
      Quote: SMP
      it’s a hundred times better than socially active mediocrity, as literate people will be careful,

      This is to the point, as confirmation of my words. In this case, the educated part of society simply retreated under the pressure of those same mediocrity who broke through to power. Alas, I didn’t find the photo, but the essence is this: last year on February 23, a banner from Milonov appeared in the metro station “Veterans Ave.” (our region is his former “patrimony”) - there are among our commanders (A. Nevsky, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Zhukov, and others.) Heaped up closeup ... Nikolay-2, yeah. yes After such an "exercise" in my head only spins:
      In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
      Obscurantism and jazz
      The idols bring themselves into electric ecstasy
      In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
      Obscurantism and jazz ...
      E. Shklyarsky
      1. Pre-cat
        Pre-cat 13 October 2017 05: 55
        0
        Hmm, the great commander Nicholas 2, it's just a historical joke laughing !
      2. mat-vey
        mat-vey 13 October 2017 08: 05
        0
        Well, to kill the priests, it’s not stolen, but given by God ... What are the prienchies and lawsuits against God?
    2. Ehanatone
      Ehanatone 13 October 2017 11: 39
      +1
      NSR
      Article including that if the State does not want to finance science, then citizens can only pray for the well-being of this State!
  11. Sarmat149
    Sarmat149 12 October 2017 20: 48
    +4
    The article is provocative, the Orthodox faith does not interfere with scientific research.
  12. Varyag77
    Varyag77 12 October 2017 20: 58
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: AleBors
    And I'm an internationalist.

    Can I clarify YOUR nationality? laughing And then almost all internationalists are entirely Klimovskie characters ... repeat

    Does a colleague hint at the protocols of the Red Wise Men? wink then they they laughing
  13. Varyag77
    Varyag77 12 October 2017 21: 00
    0
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: cedar
    More, more churches

    What denomination? wink
    Quote: cedar
    Anyone who wants to be saved.


    Very strong movie. Now I would put on a modern frame, for the beauty of the picture
  14. Catherine II
    Catherine II 12 October 2017 22: 28
    +3
    Everything is decided by the general idea.
    If the idea is to achieve great goals, then society will “sacrifice” other ideas (for example, to live better, believe in the Divine, etc.)
    If there is no idea (or rather, regular money), then standard-religion, comfortism, satisfaction of one’s needs, consumerism flourish.
    And the church is the oldest corporation. It’s quite a success. Even in years of crisis manages to exist.
    You are her at the door, and she is at the window. Even total terror in her direction, but she still is.
    Man as an emotional being cannot but believe. When they deprive him of faith in one, he automatically believes in another. Also herd (we believe that others / parents believe). But there is NO general idea.
    Now is the fruitful time of INAPIDITY in society. When the church is rapidly gaining its consumers. Because it offers them a simple idea - to believe in one deity.
    The origins of the reasons for believing in some kind of super-being in our blood, like primates (Deity leader, he is the head)
    The enemy of faith is science. A clear idea of ​​society. Education. Education.
  15. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 12 October 2017 23: 39
    +4
    Do not confuse the position of the Orthodox Church and some reckless ones like the god Kuzi and some others that pervert the faith itself. Patriarch Cyril never called for the seizure of cathedrals or churches and his speeches; sermons do not oppose the state, science and education of the people. And the article by Milaev and Shpakovsky was somehow reactionary presented by Orthodoxy.
    1. AleBors
      AleBors 13 October 2017 08: 46
      +4
      This, colleague, is now a sign of the times ... Spitting in the Church is considered a trend. Because the Church does not spit in response .. Everyone suddenly became secular and with "God in the soul" ... And the soul is as black as a chimney, most often.
      1. long in stock.
        long in stock. 13 October 2017 10: 46
        +3
        the sign of the times is to suddenly become a believer and trump it. And from all faith only learned to hold a candle. Although the soul is black most often ..
        1. AleBors
          AleBors 13 October 2017 12: 40
          +1
          Trump. What is it like? But to protect the Faith, it is the duty of every Christian ..
          1. long in stock.
            long in stock. 13 October 2017 14: 18
            +1
            depending on how and what to consider to be faith. at one time the Old Believers didn’t get rotten, and because of faith too. moreover, on both sides all believers were in the same god. so who defended the faith of them? and trump is when a person has been a thief and a scoundrel all his life and then suddenly becomes an honorary parishioner, but he just donated a sour donation to the church. Do you protect yourself from such faith? Something tells me that then they will definitely expel you to hell ..
            1. AleBors
              AleBors 13 October 2017 14: 47
              +2
              I don’t know what something tells you. If a person came to the Temple, then the Lord reached out to his soul ... But who and who makes the donation is not my business.
              We have a man in the city, the director of the construction company The temple is building. For my money .. Himself not even baptized ..
              Regarding the thief and the scoundrel ... Firstly, it is not for us to judge, and secondly, to remind you who first entered the kingdom of God? Rogue ...
              Old Believers ... here it is much simpler and they were not "spread rot", as you put it, Protopop Avvakum was destroyed as a really dangerous person, a schismatic and an instigator. And the rest themselves either burned themselves or left people. There are still many places of residence of the Old Believers in the Russian north ... Yes, and in Moscow, in the center near the Belorussky Railway Station, the Old Believer Temple ... So, you are wrong, respectable ..
              1. long in stock.
                long in stock. 13 October 2017 15: 17
                +1
                come on? why then did Peter send a soldier to them? and in the north they survived because it was hard to get to them. yes and that’s not the point, they believed. let Nikon a little differently. we are such people. but I know others. One of the chairmen of the managing office at the expense of the residents and put up a brick fence around the church — and not at all small. The tractor cleaned the temple’s territory all winter too at the expense of people. And when a block of ice killed a man that they didn’t clean the roofs because they didn’t give money, so the church immediately joined him. And they went to the prosecutor’s office and told the police how wonderful he was. They smeared you and the believer ... the church warden. The robber came in, but first he answered for his deeds in front of people ..
  16. PKTRL
    PKTRL 13 October 2017 00: 16
    +1
    Quote: cedar
    If they were killed by co-religionists, then the martyrs.
    If they were killed by the Gentiles, then the martyrs.


    These are your thoughts. The Church of the family of Nicholas II knocks passions.
  17. sxfRipper
    sxfRipper 13 October 2017 01: 13
    +7
    As usual - if not hohlosrach, then masozhdony .... But half the world (if not more) can finally live outside the realm of Abrahamic tales. And what to do with them?
    Personally, Diana - and you never thought about the topic - why is this The Russian Orthodox Church itself has appropriated the right to be more right than the rest??
  18. Pre-cat
    Pre-cat 13 October 2017 05: 47
    +7
    Two facts. Lenin also said that the fight against religion by repressive methods is harmful, moreover, it will lead to opposite results. And only universal can defeat religion scientific education (i.e. what was in the USSR). And the modern historian Boris Yulin in one of the conversations about education said that education in a particular state corresponds to what citizens this state needs. And if the USSR needed technical specialists and creators, then the education was appropriate. And the current state needs managed consumers, and this is the appropriate education. And without the ability to think critically (which gives a quality education), without a clearly defined state ideology (which gives every citizen the opportunity to decide for what he lives in this world), people seek solace in mysticism. Well, and this people carries the devil knows where.
    1. populist
      populist 13 October 2017 06: 47
      +1
      Pre-cat
      Two facts. Lenin also said that the fight against religion by repressive methods is harmful, moreover, it will lead to opposite results.

      It will not be difficult for you to quote from the source. hi
      I believe you, but just interesting.
      1. Pre-cat
        Pre-cat 13 October 2017 17: 08
        +1
        One quote here is not enough. Lenin expresses these thoughts in a number of works. For example, in the article "Socialism and Religion" or in the work "Materialism and Empirio-Criticism"
  19. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 13 October 2017 06: 40
    +6
    For example, I am a believing Christian.

    But I don’t understand much. Institute "saints"is not based on the text of the Holy Scriptures, it follows from the Holy Tradition; therefore, the attitude of the believer towards St. Nicholas can be doctrinally different.

    Regarding the ownership of the church, hierarchs should remember that the Apostles did not have any property whatsoever, which is directly stated in Acts. Therefore. as the Patriarch does not respect, the Apostles are still rank higher.

    I. the most unpleasant. "Consecration"yachts and Mercedes - this is natural, direct, simony; the acquisition of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for money. It is no better than indulgences and the church does not decorate at all.
    1. a housewife
      a housewife 18 October 2017 13: 52
      0
      In the sense - did not have property? Jesus was a carpenter by profession, had a house and a workshop. Several people were fishermen, had houses, boats, nets. Matvey was a tax collector, and they all lived richly! Pavel had a profession - he made and sold tents, so he was also provided. In addition, he was a Pharisee family, also not from the poor, besides he had Roman citizenship from birth, and just like that, a Jew did not receive such citizenship. You carefully read the Acts and the Gospels themselves, all this is there.
  20. tasha
    tasha 13 October 2017 08: 01
    0
    Ingvar 72,
    Of course I'll start! Then I will continue about Chukotka! Doesn’t it bother yourself that in one state some peoples have more rights?

    "What is your evidence?" wink
    Or do you know something about our Friday meetings, where we agree on how to remove the Russians from power in Russia? belay
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 13 October 2017 10: 47
      +1
      and naked Jennifer Lopez comes to your meetings? if so then take me to you ....
      1. tasha
        tasha 13 October 2017 10: 56
        0
        You’re kind of in stock for a long time wink
        Why should a woman be nervous wink
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 13 October 2017 11: 43
          +2
          the old horse will not spoil the furrow .. yes and I’m in reserve because it’s written off .... so .. good
      2. CONTROL
        CONTROL 13 October 2017 13: 09
        +2
        Quote: long in stock.
        and naked Jennifer Lopez comes to your meetings? if so then take me to you ....

        Jack Nicholson comes to their meetings ... naked!
        ... well, and you come in! (aren't they prone to fainting? But how - how will Nicholson come, many - of that ... fall down!)
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 13 October 2017 14: 19
          +2
          not not ... I’m not a walker on this ....
  21. CONTROL
    CONTROL 13 October 2017 11: 29
    +2
    Rubbish!
    ---------------------------
    Much of the property transferred by the Russian Orthodox Church is not for ownership, but for use; Isaac, for example ... was never owned by the Russian Orthodox Church - it was built by the state, it belongs to him! Only now the director of the current Isakia began to stuff his own pocket and a handful of associates (at the expense of the state budget, of course!). But you can’t steal from the Russian Orthodox Church ...
    --------------------------
    As for the "ideology" - to believe or not to believe ... to pray in a church, church or mosque, and the like, or to be an atheist? - that: who is not "stupid" - prove Gödel's theorem ... and who is "not care" - the road to the temple (church, mosque, synagogue ...) (which the most prominent scholars of the past and the present have walked on and on!) closed ...
  22. Baloo
    Baloo 13 October 2017 12: 05
    +2
    Quote: CONTROL
    Quote: Balu
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Where the most disadvantaged people is Russian

    For me, a Tatar living in Tatar is news. Who infringes on the Russians?
    .

    here in Tatarstan it seems to everyone like a drum - what nationality are you! In rural areas - more in the leadership of the Tatars, therefore - it’s necessary to get along with the population ... But in cities - in different ways, there are a lot of “chosen” people and long-time immigrants from the “404 country” ...
    ------------------------
    here with the Tatar language in schools, yes - an excess!
    In the city, in fact, no one wants to study and know him (both Russians and Tatars) - they speak it in a colloquial volume; but in life and work it is "not functional." In the village - everyone is taught in school (and they used to be taught), because - it is necessary for life ...


    here with the Tatar language in schools, yes - an excess!
    I agree. I am surprised at the teaching of English, without learning transcription.
    As for the Russian, in our village one family took my daughter to school in Kazan every day to know Russian. The village has a full high school, club, two shops.
  23. Cadet
    Cadet 14 October 2017 13: 30
    +6
    To the question of my colleague to the priest of the monastery, why weeds grow around the walls of the monastery and all kinds of rubbish are lying around, he answered with sadness that the local authorities said that the poor did not want to help, but only promised. Particularly surprised by the reaction, when in front of the church there is a monument overgrown with Red Army soldiers who died in the civil war, made his way through the thickets, removed the leaves from the monument and saluted, I thought the parishioners on Mercedes and Geliki would incinerate me with glances from the church grounds.
    1. CONTROL
      CONTROL 16 October 2017 09: 35
      +1
      Quote: Cadet
      To the question of my colleague to the priest of the monastery, why weeds grow around the walls of the monastery and all kinds of rubbish are lying around, he answered with sadness that the local authorities said that the poor did not want to help, but only promised. Particularly surprised by the reaction, when in front of the church there is a monument overgrown with Red Army soldiers who died in the civil war, made his way through the thickets, removed the leaves from the monument and saluted, I thought the parishioners on Mercedes and Geliki would incinerate me with glances from the church grounds.

      In our church, services are served for those killed as Red Army soldiers and White Guards, therefore - those killed; and each fought for a just cause! but - each for his own ...
      This, in fact, is the tragedy of the country and the people, such deaths and in such numbers - in civil war! What is a civil war? war against citizens? citizens with citizens? Against themselves, or what?
      It is always a tragedy !!! regardless... (here they are Ukraine ... and we laugh and gloat!)
  24. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 15 October 2017 09: 53
    0
    You can’t do without faith. But the question is: church for the people or people for the church? It seems that the priests believe that the people for the church. Hence a number of incomprehensible subjective decisions. The demonization of Peter 1 and the liberalization of Nicholas 11.
  25. Ace Tambourine
    Ace Tambourine 18 October 2017 01: 10
    0
    Jews invented Christ
    Then to crucify him.
    To the Jews forever
    could trade in temples.

    Someone came up with Allah,
    To justify their sins.
    So that we can then without fear
    Kill all the Gentiles.

    I don’t like the Buddha either,
    No wonder he is so strange.
    Doesn't want to know some right
    Sinners for any left.

    Reincarnation, believe me
    Not a panacea for us from troubles.
    Her fathers were afraid of death, -
    again the wrong answer.

    And even growing pace
    Do not pray for your sins.
    Any faith money cases
    For good will replace

    To all of them for advice
    In the meantime, you can not rush.
    But here is a simple answer question, -
    Maybe just not to sin?
  26. a housewife
    a housewife 18 October 2017 13: 27
    0
    In your own words. Faith in God does not imply a denial of science! And whoever thinks the other way around is either illiterate or a fanatic. Faith in God is not equal to religion, which is a collection of rites and rituals. You can do everything while remaining atheist in your soul. Which is often demonstrated by representatives of the church. Not only Orthodox, but any of the faiths. As well as how often a person goes to church. Property relations, property - all this has little to do with Faith. If somewhere in schools they try to introduce religious compulsory lessons in return for general education, then this is a crime. And for this, specific people should be responsible. Religion can be studied in school only as a phenomenon that has had a decisive influence on culture. All. The church is separated from the state, which can be argued about! Just laws must be observed.