Military Review

Ukraine is counting on the conclusion of new contracts for the supply of MBT "Oplot"

48


TSAMTO. The state company Ukrspetsexport expects to expand the supply of a new main combat tank "Hold".
This was stated by Vadim Kozhevnikov, Acting General Director of Ukrspetsexport GC at a military training ground in the Chernihiv region, where the capabilities of the tank were demonstrated by the Thai military delegation visiting Ukraine.

“The contract with Thailand for the supply of MBT“ Oplot ”is the first swallow. The Thai military are testing a tank, this will be an advertisement in this region, ”said V. Kozhevnikov.

The contract for the supply of TS of Thailand MBT "Oplot" was concluded on September 1 2011 of the year and provides for the supply of 49 MBT and 2 BREM.

“In case of successful fulfillment of this order, there are prerequisites for its expansion,” the head of Ukrspetsexport Group of Companies noted.

According to V. Kozhevnikov, the contract for the supply of MBT "Oplot" to Thailand was the first transaction for the supply of foreign customers of Ukrainian production after the signing of the Pakistani contract in 1998 year.

The message is posted in the public domain on the website of Ukrspetsexport.
48 comments
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  1. YARY
    YARY 22 March 2012 10: 03
    0
    I noticed a trend - as soon as Ukraine sells equipment to someone, then in that region they stop buying not only from Ukraine but also from us!
    Makes you wonder if not?
    1. domokl
      domokl 22 March 2012 10: 24
      +1
      laughing It was ... Indeed, Ukraine for a long time exported what was left of the USSR, without any modernization and such nonsense ... It turned out about the same as on this site .. A person reads T-72 and he does not give a damn what further letters ... Only specialists understood ... Now Asians began to understand the situation a little ..
      1. VAF
        VAF 22 March 2012 10: 49
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        Indeed, Ukraine for a long time exported what was left of the USSR, without any modernization and such nonsense ..


        Absolutely accurately noticed !!! good

        But the military-industrial complex of Ukraine can’t just be dropped from shields, because the tendency to improve in this area (modernization) on the face:
        -Mi-8, Mi-24, now tanks, air defense systems, then missile systems will go (they have even very little), etc.
        Therefore, it is not very correct to "ignore" the appearance on the arms market of a new player and a very promising one - we can lose a lot !!!

        Moreover, Ukraine has chosen the installation path for everything that is being modernized with NATO or sub-NATO equipment and weapons!

        The stronghold differs from the base model by the installation of foreign-made aiming devices and enlarged side screens (this tank is easy to recognize by the side screens, the lower part of which is made of rubber almost to the ground); T-84-120 "Oplot" - a variant of the T-84U with a modified turret, in which a 120-mm cannon is installed for NATO ammunition and an aft niche with ammunition in an automated ammunition rack.
        1. Kars
          Kars 22 March 2012 13: 26
          +1
          The photo is just different. And under the requirements of Thailand, more than 40 design changes were made.
          1. VAF
            VAF 22 March 2012 14: 24
            0
            Quote: Kars
            The photo is just different.


            I agree, but only tanks are not my "field" of activity, so "litter, pliz", for inaccuracies! what
            1. Kars
              Kars 22 March 2012 14: 27
              +2
              Yes, I’m without pretensions, especially since you’re rather flattering, without neglect, treat the military-industrial complex of Ukraine.
              1. VAF
                VAF 22 March 2012 16: 53
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Yes, I’m without claim


                But how can it be otherwise, I have always believed and still believe that we are one people !!!
                Here, my wife has all the relatives in Ukraine and my colleagues are fighting comrades in Ukraine, so what now is "friendship is friendship, and tobacco apart ...?"
                Yes, I will not respect myself after that !!!
  2. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 22 March 2012 10: 04
    +5
    Check this out! Ukraine is stubbornly moving towards its goal!
    1. YARY
      YARY 22 March 2012 10: 07
      -6
      Just upgrading our T-80UD
      1. wk
        wk 22 March 2012 10: 11
        +5
        Quote: Ardent
        Just upgrading our T-80UD

        By the way, successful modernization, according to most indicators, "Oplot" is superior to t - 90 .... I do not compare it with t - 80 because work on it in Russia, unfortunately, has almost stopped - which is a separate story.
        1. YARY
          YARY 22 March 2012 10: 17
          -3
          No one argues whether it’s successful or not. Of course, about the T90, it’s kind of too much.
          On the other hand, it is better to sing your own "song" than hearsay.
          1. wk
            wk 22 March 2012 10: 29
            +5
            Quote: Ardent
            Of course, about the T90, it’s kind of too much.

            look at the comparative characteristics, especially regarding the quality of armor, mobility, engine perfection, gun quality, the presence of an autonomous generator, sights, etc. I looked at this info for a long time so I can’t give links, but it’s easy to find in any search engine, I'll get to this info link .... just don’t think that I am a lobbyist of the Kharkov plant winked I just love an objective assessment.
            1. YARY
              YARY 22 March 2012 10: 41
              -4
              There are two 90s, one 72go modification and the other C-ka new model
              1. wk
                wk 22 March 2012 10: 48
                0
                It was about the comparison with the new model that I told you
            2. PLO
              PLO 22 March 2012 10: 57
              -4
              quality of armor

              I wonder how you can objectively evaluate this parameter?
              everyone praises their products, and Russia and Ukraine are no exception

              mobility

              here it is possible at the stronghold 1200ls
              on t-90 it is possible to install 1130ls

              engine excellence

              another objective factor

              gun quality

              Well, what is the difference between KBAZ and 2A46M-5

              watched this info

              in general, you always need to be critical of such an info, usually custom articles from interested parties

              I just love an objective assessment.

              excuse me, but in your post objectivity does not smell, only statements not supported by evidence
            3. VAF
              VAF 22 March 2012 10: 57
              +7
              Quote: wk
              I just love an objective assessment.


              Absolutely true!
              The armament of the enemy must be fully studied, both strengths and weaknesses, then the result of superiority is possible, and underestimation and neglect leads to defeat !!! yes

              Oplot received a new generation of dynamic protection. According to its characteristics, it should surpass the Russian "reactive armor" "Contact-5", which is installed on the T-90A and T-72BA.

              In addition, the Ukrainian tank has powerful lateral projection protection. In this, he surpasses all Western and Russian combat vehicles, including even the latest tank support combat vehicle (BMPT). Apparently, the "Bastion" is not afraid of modern and promising tandem ammunition.

              The panoramic sight of the PNK-6 commander equipped with a thermal imaging channel is striking. On well-known Russian tanks, too, there is nothing of the sort. According to some reports, the tank has a new engine with a capacity of 1400 hp. The Russian engine V-92C2 is only thousand-strong.

              Tank T-84 - a further development of the T-80UD. Compared to the T-80UD, the new vehicle has an increased engine power up to 1200 hp, improved aiming and observation devices, and improved dynamic protection. In addition, the Shtora system has been installed to combat the enemy's guided anti-tank weapons. Currently, there are three modifications of the T-84:
              1.T-84 - basic modification;
              2.T-84U "Yatagan" - modification prepared for participation in the Turkish tender. It differs from the base model by the installation of foreign-made aiming devices and enlarged side screens (on the side screens, the lower part of which is made of rubber almost to the ground, this tank is easy to recognize);
              3.T-84-120 "Oplot" - a variant of the T-84U with a modified turret, in which a 120-mm cannon is installed for NATO ammunition and a stern niche with ammunition in an automated ammunition rack.

              The gun barrel is quick-detachable and can be replaced in the field without dismantling the gun from the tank. The tower’s drive is electric, and the gun’s drive is hydraulic. The tower rotates 180 degrees in less than 5 seconds (the rotation speed of the tower relative to the hull is up to 40 deg / s). In case of emergency, manual gun and turret guidance drives are provided. Ammunition for the gun is 40 rounds of separate loading (projectile and charge), of which 28 are located in the conveyor of the automatic loader. Seven shots are in the case to the right of the driver, and five more shots are in the armored compartment installed in the rear of the tower. Ammunition used: armor-piercing-subcaliber, cumulative, high-explosive fragmentation and laser-guided missiles. A feature of the tank is the presence of guided weapons, which allows you to fire from a cannon with guided missiles with laser guidance and hit targets at ranges up to 5000 m. Missiles are stored in the conveyor of an automatic loader in the same way as conventional ammunition.
          2. wk
            wk 22 March 2012 10: 54
            0
            http://btvt.narod.ru/4/t84vst90skr2.htm сравнение
            1. PLO
              PLO 22 March 2012 20: 05
              +1
              read .. mixed feelings
              if in the middle of the article I had suspicions that the author was predisposed to Oplot, then by the end of the article I was sure of this

              I’ll try to write a short review, because I can’t compare the performance characteristics of a tanker, but I’ll try to comment on the rest based on the knowledge obtained in open sources of information

              By the way, the date of writing the article is not clear, therefore it is impossible to understand where the author is disingenuous, and where he simply does not know
              -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------

              ---------------------------

              Go smile
              as I understand it, the author compares the T-90A (adoption of the early 2000s) with Oplot-M (adoption of 2009)
              it often overlooks new developments that have not been applied commercially, but can be installed if desired
              actually I will comment taking into account all developments to date
              in addition, it is immediately evident that in the comparative column Oplot received much more attention than the T-90A


              The fire control system of the T-84 and T-90 tank provides for the equipping with thermal imaging sights (TVP) of domestic or joint production using imported FPU (France). In contrast to the T-90, the Oplot uses a panoramic commander’s sight with a thermal imaging channel, which significantly increases the commander’s visibility capabilities when working at night and in low visibility conditions.

              fortunately, the author nevertheless briefly mentioned that there is a modernization of 2009 with a panoramic sight of the commander


              The T-84 tank has an additional power unit ensuring the operation of all its systems with the engine turned off. The T-90 tank does not have this.

              Indeed, there is no T-90 (beginning of the 2000s), but on the T-72B2 (like 2009) and T-90M (2011) it is, and to install the APU on the t-90A you only need

              The designs of the on-board gearboxes also differ, on the Oplot there are seven forward and four reverse gears, on the T-90 seven forward and one reverse gears. Oplot's speed is 30 km / h in reverse, and 90 km / h on the T-5. The control levers of the driver’s mechanic at the Oplot are replaced by a helm.

              how important is it I can’t judge, let the tankmen judge)



              In addition, the Oplot tank was equipped with a more powerful power plant with a 6TD-2E engine (1200 hp vs 1000 hp on the T-90A). A feature of Oplot SU is low power loss during operation in conditions of elevated ambient temperatures. Significant power losses are observed on a T-90A equipped with a V-92 engine at elevated ambient temperatures, so at a temperature of + 550 ° C the engine power is less than 600 hp. Both tanks can be equipped with air conditioning as an option to complete the tank, this improves the living conditions of the crew.

              we have a b-93 1130 bhp and B-99 1200l.s.
              although someone mentioned that for the stronghold it seems like there is a 1400-horsepower engine,
              but with diesels in Kharkov it was always good

              Barrel bending accounting system

              put on all modern mods

              Large MZ capacity (28 rounds) compared to AZ (22), high rate of fire due to tandem chambering (projectile charge) per cycle

              the practical rate of fire depends more on the SLA, the gunner, and the rate of smoke dispersal after firing

              T-90A. Made of medium-hard armor steels, relatively low resistance of the armor base of the tower.
              Oplot-M + Made of high-strength armor steels with electroslag remelting.

              here I xs, how true is this

              - The outdated Contact-5 DZ is used that does not meet modern requirements.

              the author for some reason is silent about DZ Relic

              however about the not the most successful installation scheme DZ on the tower I agree
              but again, you can defuse the entire tank with DZ blocks and several times, everything depends on the cost and expediency

              It has a 1,5 times greater EPR, about 1,2 times greater thermal contrast in the IR range (engine exhaust - to the left side), which facilitates the guidance of weapons with homing heads, is detected by reconnaissance vehicles with a greater range.

              it is possible, only the T-90 can be equipped with a complex Cape

              With external resemblance to the T-84, it looks more archaic.

              step over good


              communication and navigation

              just remember glonass, excitement, sagittarius ..
              there will be money, there will be a delicious filling

              and most importantly

              As shown by the data, the Oplot tank surpasses the T-90A in basic indicators,

              basically i agree
              in the configuration in which the T-90A is delivered to Russia, it really, no matter how you like it, loses Oplot-M little by little in each factor, and in general this adds up to a rather significant advantage, but this is not an advantage that can ensure a guaranteed victory in a tank duel

              if desired, and the T-90A can be stuffed for the most I do not want, the point is expediency

              however, the author is disingenuous, because at the moment the T-90M is the embodiment of all the innovations in Russian tank building

              It is necessary to compare Oplot-M (2009g) and T-90M (2011g)
              it is these mods that are peers

              however, if the T-90A is mass-produced for the Russian army, then mass production is yet to come.

              and here the essence of the article is probably reflected, when the number of Oplotov reaches serious significance, Armata, t-95, or other tanks that are currently being developed will be ready to go into our series

              Such superiority of the Oplot over the serial T-90 is not due to a technological advantage, but to a change in the generation of tanks in Russia,
              and if Ukraine does not miss its chance on the international market during this time, then it will be possible to congratulate it
              1. Kars
                Kars 22 March 2012 20: 26
                +2
                To disassemble everything for a long time and not interesting.

                go to the blog to hassle and you feel better.
                http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/
                and starting with the fact that the T-95 is closed, no other tanks are heard. And Armata needs to watch the rumors are ambiguous.
                1. PLO
                  PLO 22 March 2012 20: 40
                  +3
                  UVZ announced that it would bring t-95 on its own,
                  in addition to being closed, they can and can open, with our MO, which itself does not know what it wants, it is not difficult
                  T-90M also hear nothing?
                  Armata no matter how you start from scratch, it will probably not be created

                  go to the blog to hassle and you feel better.

                  I usually go to the toilet to feel better


                  To disassemble everything for a long time and not interesting.

                  in such cases I pass by silently
                  "but find out what I don't know what" this is not for me
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 22 March 2012 21: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: olp
                    I usually go to the toilet to feel better

                    this makes me happy
                    Quote: olp
                    T-90M also can not hear anything

                    I didn’t hear anything. Although I carefully follow the BTT news
                    Quote: olp
                    UVZ announced that it will bring t-95 independently
                    it’s small that they claim. I personally do not believe --- they are both armature and t-90 ms and now t-90 m is a bit too much.
                    Quote: olp
                    in such cases I pass by silently
                    "but find out what I don't know what" this is not for me

                    Want to continue? Through my profile in my publications an article about Oplot --- I am only happy.
                    1. PLO
                      PLO 22 March 2012 21: 56
                      +1
                      this makes me happy

                      nice to bring people joy


                      I didn’t hear anything. Although I carefully follow the BTT news

                      and what exactly do you want to hear?
                      he was introduced six months ago
                      by the way comrade Kangarli from Azerbaijan below shares rumors

                      it’s small that they claim. I personally do not believe --- they are both armature and t-90 ms and now t-90 m is a bit too much.

                      Why not?
                      Armast is funded by the Moscow Region
                      T-95 let's say UVZ itself
                      and the T-90M (T-90MS export mod) seem to have already been presented

                      you never know what. I personally do not believe

                      by the way this golden phrase

                      do you want to continue?

                      what to continue?
                      I already wrote mine

                      in my publications an article about Oplot

                      interesting, read once upon a time
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 22 March 2012 22: 08
                        -1
                        Quote: olp
                        he was introduced six months ago

                        Quote: olp
                        and T-90M (T-90MS export mode) seems to have already introduced

                        also a golden phrase --- ms have not yet been put into service. Already M --- and vryatli is a new tank
                        Quote: olp
                        sort of

                        Quote: olp
                        what to continue?
                        I already wrote mine

                        then reluctant? well, as you want. Then I’ll just say that 30 km per hour in reverse is very good. Especially in combat conditions.
                        Quote: olp
                        T-95 let's say UVZ itself

                        I won’t even allow it to be ridiculous --- sheer complaints about the lack of working capital at UVZ, etc., and to pull such a topic without a customer.
                      2. PLO
                        PLO 22 March 2012 22: 13
                        +1
                        mean reluctance?

                        I don’t understand what you want from me?
                        I brought my arguments, if you have nothing to argue, then say so



                        continuous complaints about the lack of working capital at UVZ, etc., and to pull such a topic without a customer.

                        you never know what. I personally do not believe
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 22 March 2012 22: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: olp
                        I brought my arguments, if you have nothing to argue, then say so

                        It’s not convenient here.
                        But okay ---- concrete argument
                        Quote: olp
                        It is necessary to compare Oplot-M (2009g) and T-90M (2011g)

                        M is not adopted.
                        T-90M is the latest modification of the T-90, [28] work on which was initiated at the initiative of UKBTM in 2004 on the theme of the ROC “Breakthrough”. For the first time, the export version of this modification of the tank under the name T-90MS [29] was presented to the public on 9 on September 2011 at the Staratel training ground in Nizhny Tagil as part of the VIII international arms exhibition REA-2011

                        so be determined
                        Quote: olp
                        in the configuration in which the T-90A is delivered to Russia, it really, no matter how you like it, loses Oplot-M little by little in each factor

                        But this really can stop.
                        Quote: olp

                        continuous complaints about the lack of working capital at UVZ, etc., and to pull such a topic without a customer.
                        you never know what. I personally do not believe


                        So UVZ is suddenly rich. I'm glad.
                      4. PLO
                        PLO 22 March 2012 22: 40
                        +1
                        M is not adopted.

                        so be determined

                        here it’s not at all clear what the MO is stirring up, either the armature is waiting, or the fuel and lubricants will pass, it will be a purely export tank, and it’s not necessary to take it into service (except to raise the export potential)
                        but in principle its main characteristics were voiced, and if adoption is a matter of principle for you, then you can’t compare

                        But this really can stop.

                        well stopped)
                        what's next?
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 22 March 2012 22: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: olp
                        and if adoption is a matter of principle for you

                        it’s not only important for me, but also for potential customers, and God forbid they will think about the 18 modifications of the T-72.
                        Quote: olp
                        well stopped)
                        what's next?

                        Yes, in principle, nothing --- just your indignation of the article turned out to be without soil, BTT brands are indicated and everything corresponds. Well, as far as DZ Relic can be said, it is a generation behind DZ Knife ---- the relic has a blast defeat. to the knife cumulative jet.
                      6. PLO
                        PLO 22 March 2012 22: 59
                        +1
                        Postnikov must be shot bitch

                        I tried to prove that the strongholds have no fundamental advantage over the T-90A, which would provide him with a guaranteed victory in a tank duel,
                        and it all depends on the skill of the crew
                        and that if you want to stuff the t-90 you can no worse and even better (example t-90m)

                        turned out to be without soil

                        everything that I criticized was taken out of context and an outsider might think, as usual, that all polymers are broken

                        the relict has a blast lesion. to the knife with a directed cumulative stream.

                        a new principle does not necessarily mean better

                        at least from the blog, the link to which you gave me, subtracted

                        Due to the fact that mainly T-72A / M tanks fall under the modernization of the UMG version, and the assemblies of KDZ "Contact-V" containers remain standard, adapted to the increased geometry of the turrets of T-72B tanks, the angle of inclination of the upper (main) blocks comes out significantly increased, which sharply reduces the effectiveness of the remote sensing. It is worth recalling that the installation of DZ on Russian T-72B tanks is one of the "hobbyhorses" of their constant criticism from the Ukrainian pseudo-expert A. Tarasenko. A. Tarasenko also constantly criticizes the KDZ "Contact-V" itself, however, for some reason the Ethiopians buy tanks with the Russian "Contact" and "Contact-V". I wonder why they gave up the Ukrainian "Knife" and "Duplet"? And ... hello, Ukraine, how about a license for a Russian DZ ???!
                      7. Kars
                        Kars 22 March 2012 23: 26
                        -1
                        Quote: olp
                        that the strongholds have no fundamental advantage over the T-90A,

                        Yes, the same SLA, and it can allow you to win the tank duel, as well as more powerful armor protection and mobility.

                        Although I deny tank duels as such.
                        Quote: olp
                        and that if you want to stuff the t-90 you can no worse and even better

                        But why prove it? There is Oplot, there is T-90 A or T-90 M ---- but if you take - stuffing, then why do you think that Oplot should not be stuffed before.
                        Quote: olp
                        everything that I criticized was taken out of context and an outsider might think, as usual, that all polymers are broken


                        Why should someone else read this? And if this person does not distinguish between the serial T-90 A and the experimental T-90 MS, then the rest doesn’t matter to him. You can also stuff yes AMG
                        Quote: olp
                        at least from the blog, the link to which you gave me, subtracted

                        So, according to Gurk Khan, the contract with Thailand was canceled six months ago, and now you’ll take everything from UVZ. Want to read on Military Review there is this repost.
                        Quote: olp
                        A. Tarasenko also constantly criticizes the KDZ "Contact-V" itself, however, for some reason, Ethiopians buy tanks exactly

                        I told you that it’s easier for you from Gurk Khan attacks.
                      8. PLO
                        PLO 22 March 2012 23: 56
                        +1
                        yes the same SLA

                        the only difference is the absence / presence of panoramic TPV sight of the commander before 2009 / after 2009
                        Are there any other differences with Suo Bastion that you can appreciate?

                        as well as more powerful armor protection and mobility.

                        it is more significant, but also does not guarantee victory
                        in the end the guns and ammunition are about the same

                        Although I deny tank duels as such.

                        me too, but other comparisons are even less objective or much more complex

                        Why prove it? There is Oplot, there is T-90 A or T-90 M ---- but if you take it - stuffing, then why do you think that Oplot should not be stuffed before.

                        Of course you can, but with what?
                        cost / effectiveness has not been canceled

                        T-90M concept is ready
                        five years later you KHKBM will introduce a new tank / modification, UVZ too
                        the race is endless, and the temporary advantage of one tank does not mean the technological backwardness of another

                        T-55 and Abrams, T-55 can also be stuffed yes AMG

                        comparisons can be made, the main thing is to draw the right conclusions

                        I told you that it’s easier for you from Gurk Khan attacks.

                        Well, now, at least it’s clear what you meant

                        but nonetheless
                        everyone is biased, but the facts remain facts
                        Ukraine really supplies Ethiopians t-72 with contact or is it not?
                        if true, why?
                        too expensive? or maybe other reasons?
                      9. Kars
                        Kars 23 March 2012 00: 21
                        0
                        Quote: olp
                        Are there any other differences with Suo Bastion that you can appreciate?

                        Here you see, and if we had continued the discussion on the topic of the dedication to the Bastion, such a question would not have arisen.
                        Quote: olp
                        in the end the guns and ammunition are about the same

                        which makes the differences in armor protection more significant, although in a duel situation I would prefer to take an export scimitar, it is more likely.
                        Quote: olp
                        Of course you can, but with what?
                        cost / effectiveness has not been canceled


                        Well, count it. Maybe you also say that you know the price of the T-90 M?
                        Quote: olp
                        T-90M concept is ready
                        five years later you KHKBM will introduce a new tank / modification, UVZ too

                        I don’t know about the Russian Federation, but Ukraine will not introduce a new tank ----- we don’t need it, the Oplot’s export potential is huge, and the fact that the Russian Federation puts up armature for sale is vryatli,
                        Quote: olp
                        and the temporary advantage of one tank does not mean the technological backwardness of another

                        how is it temporary? Just answer the question which is better T-72М Iraq or M1А1 Abrams? there is no such thing temporarily. there was now, and what will not be known. and you yourself answered about T-90А and Oplot
                        Quote: olp
                        Ukraine really supplies Ethiopians t-72 with contact or is it not?

                        That's exactly expensive, especially since the contacts come from storage depots ------- besides, the neighbors of Ethiopia are not armed with the most modern weapons --- but mostly the good old T-55 and Tsinturiony, Vikerrs3, but probably no one about Javelins and doesn’t think, like about the tandem warheads and .. shock core .. And this is not talking about the fact that they are Ethiopians at any time can put any other DZ complexes, even Israeli, even Russian, even ours.
                        Quote: olp
                        And ... alle, Ukraine, but what about the license for Russian DZ ???!

                        also funny --- the USSR itself was slammed from a blazer, and all the same the USSR’s heritage
                      10. PLO
                        PLO 23 March 2012 01: 01
                        0
                        which makes the differences in armor protection more significant, although in a duel situation I would prefer to take an export scimitar, it is more likely.

                        not a fact
                        if exaggerated, then both the cardboard and the paper will strike the bullet equally efficiently

                        Well, count it. Maybe you also say that you know the price of the T-90 M?

                        t-xnumx
                        T-90 and 72 Lama
                        stronghold m?

                        I don’t know about the Russian Federation, but Ukraine will not introduce a new tank ----- we don’t need it,

                        maybe not, but t-90ms has already been presented

                        T-72M Iraq or M1A1Abrams?

                        definitely abrams at night, depends on the crew during the day
                        they can hit each other with one shot

                        How is it temporary?

                        you decide what you are comparing
                        either extreme mods of the tank line, or specific mods that converged in battle
                        with the same success you can compare the stronghold with the t-72a, or vice versa the t-90 with the t-64
                      11. PLO
                        PLO 23 March 2012 01: 02
                        0
                        Z. I will continue tomorrow
                        time to sleep
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 23 March 2012 01: 22
                        0
                        Quote: olp
                        not a fact
                        if exaggerated, then both the cardboard and the paper will strike the bullet equally efficiently

                        and if you do not exaggerate, then 5 mm thickness of a homogeneous armor can very strongly influence - this is not taking into account the DZ and the fillers of the composite.
                        Quote: olp
                        t-xnumx
                        T-90 and 72 Lama
                        stronghold m?

                        Well, how do you know how much the T-90 M costs and will compare with Oplot M, and so Ukraine offers the choice of upgrading the T-72 from 1,2 l, and the T-90 and Bulat are quite comparable,
                        Quote: olp
                        I don’t know about the Russian Federation, but Ukraine will not introduce a new tank ----- we don’t need it,

                        maybe not, but t-90ms has already been presented

                        misunderstanding of my answer to your phrase
                        Quote: olp
                        five years later you KHKBM will introduce a new tank / modification, UVZ too

                        ms does not fit this, then I’ll also say that there will be an Oplot M1A12 (or rather, as the customer wants, this will be)
                        Quote: olp
                        definitely abrams at night, depends on the crew during the day
                        they can hit each other with one shot

                        this is pretty naive, I hope it’s about frontal projections? And the SLA of the abrams will allow you to shoot even from a greater distance during the day, and given the available BPS of the Iraqi army taken out of service of the USSR army back in 1973, even this is not necessary.
                        Quote: olp
                        you decide what you are comparing
                        either extreme mods of the tank line, or specific mods that converged in battle

                        In general, you didn’t like the comparison with the T-90A, and for some reason you wanted to take into account the T-90MS which did not pass the state tests, was not accepted for service. I can compare anything in principle, but I always considered the specific model to be the main thing. if T-90 is compared, I will not recall that somewhere there is T-90MS.
                      13. PLO
                        PLO 23 March 2012 17: 59
                        0
                        and 5 mm thick homogeneous armor can very strongly influence

                        what anti-tank weapons will greatly help the additional 5mm sheet of homogeneous armor?

                        Well, how do you know how much the T-90 M costs and will compare with Oplot M

                        interesting logic
                        you probably know the price of the stronghold for the army of Ukraine
                        If I am not mistaken, 10 stronghold was ordered
                        so how much is a stronghold?

                        and the T-90A and Bulat are quite comparable,

                        here you can remember t-72b2
                        he is also quite comparable with the t-90 and the stronghold

                        this is pretty naive, I hope it’s about frontal projections? And the SLA of the abrams will allow you to shoot even from a greater distance during the day, and given the available BPS of the Iraqi army taken out of service of the USSR army back in 1973, even this is not necessary.

                        tanks don’t fight gathering along the autobahn as a duel, so I said that it all depends on the crew
                        and don’t seem to be more cunning than it is, if you are hinting at a war in Iraq, say so
                        or do you think that the Iraqi t-72 can only fire shells that are armed with Iraq?

                        T-90MS which did not pass state tests, is not accepted for service

                        frankly it's a phrase about gsm fed up
                        why are you sure that the T-90M did not pass the GSI?
                        Adopt the t-90M is not necessary, because Since it’s a mod, it’s enough for him to go through the GSI so that the MO can buy it, and the T-90 tank was adopted in 93, if I’m not mistaken
                        and t-90ms is just an export mode, and perhaps the main one, and you don’t need to take it into service either, and even the GSI can not pass, because the customer will still conduct his tests

                        so let's end the conversation on the main issue
                        I believe that the stronghold should be compared with tagil, even if they didn’t inform you personally in the news that he went to the ICG
                        remain unconvinced, actually your right
                      14. Kars
                        Kars 23 March 2012 18: 29
                        0
                        Quote: olp
                        what anti-tank weapons will greatly help the additional 5mm sheet of homogeneous armor?


                        From any. It’s immediately obvious that you were not interested in the history of tank building and issues of armor penetration.
                        if instead of 100 mm armor plate, install 105 mm armor plate, then ammunition with validity in 101 mm will not pierce it (well, I’m already exaggerating it too)
                        Quote: olp
                        If I am not mistaken, 10 stronghold was ordered

                        24 of a million hryvnias is declared. But you have to consider that small-syringes cost more than large-series ones. So how much is your MS worth? Or have you added up the price?
                        Quote: olp
                        here you can remember t-72b2
                        he is also quite comparable with the t-90 and the stronghold

                        With the stronghold you are bent, but with the T-84
                        Quote: olp
                        tanks don’t fight gathering along the autobahn as a duel, so I said that it all depends on the crew
                        and don’t seem to be more cunning than it is, if you are hinting at a war in Iraq, say so
                        or do you think that the Iraqi t-72 can only fire shells that are armed with Iraq?

                        You are already starting to go to extremes, just answer that it is more combat-ready with the same crew skills (otherwise it is difficult to compare Iraqis with amers), in the absence of an air threat, etc.
                        we put Abrams and T-72M on a flat field with a distance of 4 km. Otherwise, T-34 aboard with 300 m will strike that Abramsa, that T-72M

                        Quote: olp
                        Why are you sure that the T-90M did not pass the ICG?

                        Counter question - are you sure that the past? And in general it is declared that this is not a modification.
                        T-9
                        Quote: olp
                        and t-90ms is just an export mode, and perhaps the main one, and you don’t need to take it into service either, and even the GSI can not pass, because the customer will still conduct his tests

                        As required, a purely hypothetical idle talk that he is, that he is not.
                        Quote: olp
                        I believe that the stronghold should be compared with tagil, even if they didn’t inform you personally in the news that he went to the ICG

                        your right, based on the foregoing, to conclude that the T-90A cannot be compared to Oplot M as morally obsolete, right?
                      15. PLO
                        PLO 23 March 2012 19: 10
                        0
                        105 mm armor plate, then ammunition with a validity of 101 mm will not pierce it anymore (well, I’m already exaggerating it too)

                        You can immediately see that you were not interested in the history of tank building and issues of armor penetration (s)
                        since when did the shells have a certain effectiveness (? 'what is this term?)

                        So how much is your MS? Or have you added up the price?

                        great brush

                        Tavim Abrams and T-72M on a flat field with a distance of 4 km

                        Are you kind of an enemy of tank duels?
                        in addition, I’m not a tanker, I can’t objectively evaluate the tactical characteristics of these tanks, therefore I only evaluate the technical
                        Counter question - are you sure that the past?

                        I'm not, therefore, I’m not saying anything, but you are claiming that you didn’t pass, so you’re sure
                        And generally stated that this is not a modification.

                        where?
                        it seems like everywhere is indicated as a deep modernization of the t-90
                        As required, a purely hypothetical idle talk that he is, that he is not.

                        didn't understand what you meant
                        but perhaps you yourself have really proven something
                        what it will be offered for export has already been stated in a press release,
                        whether it will be purchased by MO will almost certainly be decided after the readiness of Almaty

                        your right, based on the foregoing, to conclude that the T-90A cannot be compared to Oplot M as morally obsolete, right?

                        no wrong
                        morally obsolete?
                        you need to work with us in the Moscow region, they like to give out such phrases there, though they cannot explain what this means
                        a technique becomes obsolete when it can no longer perform the tasks assigned to it
                        so that before the aging of the t-90a for a long time
                        this means comparing the stronghold with the T-90, the same as comparing the t-90 with the t-84
                      16. Kars
                        Kars 23 March 2012 19: 38
                        0
                        Quote: olp
                        since when did the shells have a certain effectiveness (? 'what is this term?)

                        In armor penetration tables
                        Quote: olp
                        great brush

                        But what did they put down? Or maybe it won’t be at all --- didn’t go into the news about Armata?
                        Quote: olp
                        Are you kind of an enemy of tank duels?
                        in addition, I’m not a tanker, I can’t objectively evaluate the tactical characteristics of these tanks, therefore I only evaluate the technical

                        So is this just a technical assessment, or can you suggest another way? Do you have any crew training factors? Tactical situation? Terrain?
                        Quote: olp
                        I'm not, therefore, I’m not saying anything, but you are claiming that you didn’t pass, so you’re sure

                        but I’m sure that it didn’t fail, this is a significant event for the tank and there is no sense in hiding it, it would only add chances to an external customer.
                        Quote: olp
                        this means comparing the stronghold with the T-90, the same as comparing the t-90 with the t-84

                        Well, and compare, T-84Y anyway, according to the claimed characteristics, T-90A comes
                      17. PLO
                        PLO 23 March 2012 20: 23
                        +1
                        In armor penetration tables

                        armor penetration tables allow only estimate the effectiveness of the shells at a certain distance on the armor sheet
                        and this does not mean that if the table indicates that a projectile from a particular gun penetrates 60mm at an angle of 60 degrees, then it will never be able to penetrate 65mm, and will always penetrate 55mm
                        there are a bunch of factors, the quality of armor, shells, gunpowder, which vary in each batch
                        and these are by no means isolated cases


                        But what did they put down? Or maybe it won’t be at all --- didn’t go into the news about Armata?

                        and what to fold?
                        you know perfectly well that it is not yet possible to know the price of t-90ms, so do not get into the bottle
                        better remember the price that they brought and compare with the one I brought on t-90
                        I have not read about armature yet

                        So is this just a technical assessment, or can you suggest another way? Do you have any crew training factors? Tactical situation? Terrain?

                        I don’t, so I do not compare
                        or can you give an objective introduction to the quality of combat training of the average crew in a vacuum?

                        but I’m sure that it didn’t fail, this is a significant event for the tank and there is no sense in hiding it, it would only add chances to an external customer.

                        only I'm sure that you cannot know for sure

                        T-84U still according to the claimed characteristics surpasses the T-90A

                        in what
                        first I wrote t-84, but oh well, compare with t-84
                        I have no desire to give you a detailed comparative description
                      18. Kars
                        Kars 23 March 2012 22: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: olp
                        armor penetration tables allow only to evaluate the effectiveness of the shells at a certain distance on the armor sheet

                        Strange, but I always thought that in the armor penetration tables they take into account the percentage of the mass of the projectile that passed behind the armored fence.
                        Quote: olp
                        there are a bunch of factors, the quality of armor, shells, gunpowder, which vary in each batch

                        Since the extra 5 mm armor makes it easier to break through or increase the durability of the armor plate, or just a little more and you will begin to prove that the 100 mm have better armor resistance than the 105 mm
                        Quote: olp
                        you know perfectly well that it is not yet possible to know the price of t-90ms, so do not get into the bottle
                        better remember the price that they brought and compare with the one I brought on t-90

                        So why are you climbing with MS then suddenly it will cost 10 millions?
                        And once again I repeat. T-90A with its price is equivalent, or inferior to Bulat and T-84U. Speaking easier, you want a Mercedes, you want an Audi.
                        Quote: olp
                        I am not, therefore, do not compare
                        or can you give an objective introduction to the quality of combat training of the average crew in a vacuum?

                        Well, it doesn’t suit you .. laboratory .. test and a pure comparison of the technical characteristics of you and the vacum in your hands. And I undertake to say that Abrams M1A1 is superior to T-72M
                        Quote: olp
                        only I'm sure that you cannot know for sure

                        And this is not necessary, there is a fact that when the MC presented at the exhibition messages about passing state tests and its adoption was not available, therefore, the Black Eagle and the 195 object can be operated with the same success
                        Quote: olp
                        than?
                        first I wrote t-84, but oh well, compare with t-84

                        yes even with T-80UD Birch
                        Quote: olp
                        I have no desire to give you a detailed comparative description

                        Vryatli you can. And so if you hate comparing T-90A with the Bastion M
                        then it is possible so T-90 against T-84, T-90A against T-84
                      19. PLO
                        PLO 23 March 2012 22: 45
                        0
                        Strange, but I always thought that in the armor penetration tables they take into account the percentage of the mass of the projectile that passed behind the armored fence.

                        Do you think that if a projectile hits the 100mm table, it will not penetrate 105mm?
                        of course, increasing the thickness of the armor plate increases the armor resistance, that's just non-linear,

                        So why are you climbing with MS then suddenly it will cost 10 millions?

                        am i climbing Where?


                        And once again I repeat. T-90A with its price is equivalent, or inferior to Bulat and T-84U. Speaking easier, you want a Mercedes, you want an Audi.

                        with the same success we can say that t-90 with its price is better than the stronghold-m
                        72lama of Russian rubles against 24 lyama of hryvnia = 88lama of rubles

                        But this is not necessary, there is a fact that when the MC presented at the exhibition messages on passing state tests and its adoption was not available,

                        So what? it was half a year ago

                        And I undertake to assert that Abrams M1A1 is superior to T-72M

                        yeah, who’s stopping you?

                        Vryatli you can. And so if you hate comparing T-90A with the Bastion M
                        then it is possible so T-90 against T-84, T-90A against T-84

                        I'm honestly tired
                        I already said above about this
                        as I wrote above, I agree that the t-90a is inferior to BM Oplot, but this superiority is not decisive in tank combat
                        what conclusions you will make, it's up to you, I made mine
                        don't wait for more answers
                      20. Kars
                        Kars 23 March 2012 22: 58
                        +2
                        Quote: olp
                        Do you think that if a projectile hits the 100mm table, it will not penetrate 105mm?

                        according to the Soviet method of calculating armor penetration, armor is considered to be broken if 100% of the shell penetrated the obstacle, so it is very possible that 101 mm will not penetrate.
                        Quote: olp
                        of course, increasing the thickness of the armor plate increases the armor resistance, that's just non-linear

                        Then I don’t understand your arguments at all, especially when exaggerating cardboard and paper.
                        Quote: olp
                        am i climbing Where?

                        You did not mention T-90MS in the concept of comparison with the same Bastion M?
                        Quote: olp
                        with the same success we can say that t-90 with its price is better than the stronghold-m
                        cheaper yes, but not better.
                        Quote: olp
                        So what? it was half a year ago

                        That's it, but the message never came, even about the beginning of the tests. Although now the information is spreading especially quickly.
                        Quote: olp
                        yeah, who’s stopping you?

                        It’s clear that no one
                        Quote: olp
                        I'm honestly tired
                        I already said above about this


                        Well you had a phrase
                        Quote: olp
                        in such cases I pass by silently

                        It is a pity that you did not follow her. I hope you made sure that Oplot M is superior in performance characteristics to T-90A.
                2. PLO
                  PLO 22 March 2012 20: 58
                  +2
                  http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/

                  however thanks for the link
                  interesting blog
              2. Ziksura
                Ziksura 22 March 2012 21: 29
                +1
                Quote: olp
                The designs of the on-board gearboxes also differ, on the Oplot there are seven forward and four reverse gears, on the T-90 seven forward and one reverse gears. Oplot's speed is 30 km / h in reverse, and 90 km / h on the T-5. The control levers of the driver’s mechanic at the Oplot are replaced by a helm.
                how important is it I can’t judge, let the tankmen judge)

                On the T-90MS is the helm.
                And the rest:
                Tank T-90MS "Tagil" was created within the framework of the ROC "Proryv-2" (2004-2011) as an initiative development of the Ural design bureau of transport engineering as opposed to the development work "Burlak", which were carried out in the Omsk design bureau. ROC "Burlak" provided for the creation of a unified fighting compartment for the modernization, primarily of T-90 / T-72 tanks. At the same time, JSC UKBTM - the developer of these tanks - constantly led and is working to improve the design of the T-90 MBT and modernize the T-72.


                Earlier, UKBTM developed a new welded tower for the T-90 tank - a modern panoramic commander's sight with a thermal imaging channel, improved broadband laser radiation indicators, a new layout of the commander's workplace with all-round visibility were installed. There was no ZPU, and instead of him the commander had a Pecheneg machine gun of 7,62 caliber. A universal (modular) ERA of the "Relikt" type was installed on the hull (third generation DZ, adopted by the RF Ministry of Defense in 2006). The T-90MS "Tagil" is distinguished, first of all, by a completely new design of the tower, the protection of which is practically devoid of weakened vulnerable zones and is all-round. Not only the frontal, but also the lateral projection and stern are significantly better protected. The most important thing in terms of protection is improved roof protection.

                The combat tower module of the improved T-90MS "Tagil" tank is habitable. It houses two of the three crew members - the commander and the gunner. The module is equipped with a highly automated weapons control complex and provides performance exceeding those achieved on the world's best models in terms of effective firing range, shot preparation time, night target detection and recognition range. Located prism devices and a panoramic sight provide the commander with all-round visibility. And the system of circular video surveillance gives the same opportunity also to the gunner. The commander has the ability to defeat tank-hazardous manpower, ATGM crews from a remotely controlled, stabilized machine-gun mount from a place and on the move, regardless of the main armament and time of day. With a range of up to 1500 m in any position of the tank turret, the range of firing angles is from -10 to +45 vertically, and 316 horizontally.

                Much attention is paid to visibility - the T-90MS "Tagil" tank has a significantly improved fire control system "Kalina" as part of the gunner's multispectral sight, the commander's panoramic sight with a digital ballistic computer and a set of meteorological and ballistic conditions sensors. The combat information and control system of the tactical level is integrated into the MSA. During the development of the LMS, we used the developments obtained in the course of the very successful R&D "Frame-99" and "Slingshot-1". Attention is drawn to the smaller dimensions of the sights and their very serious protection against small-caliber artillery fire, bullets and fragments of large-caliber shells. This is especially noticeable against the background of the Ukrainian Oplot-M tank presented in March 2009.


                The T-90MS "Tagil" tank can be fitted with the 2A46M5 cannon, which has already become standard for serial Russian vehicles, and a completely new weapon with improved ballistic characteristics - 2A82. The barrel of the gun is chrome-plated, its resource is increased by 1,7 times and guarantees the stability of the initial velocity and the accuracy of the shells. The total ammunition load is at least 40 rounds, and the ready-to-use ammunition load is 22 rounds. Ammunition is divided into three stowage groups. Two groups are located inside the tank in the least affected areas: the mechanized group is located in the conveyor of the new automatic loader in the lower part of the hull (22 pieces), the non-mechanized group is located in the area of ​​the MTO partition. The third group of ammunition (10 shots) was placed in a compartment isolated from the crew compartment - an armored box located at the rear of the tower. This ammunition load is used to replenish the A3 transporter and non-mechanized ammunition racks at out-of-combat stops. Ammunition in the AZ has all-round protection against shrapnel, fragmentation screens made of high-strength synthetic fabric "Armotex" are installed on the inner surfaces of the hull and turret.

                Auxiliary armament is represented by a remote-controlled autonomous machine-gun installation UDP T05BV-1, which replaced the ZPU. In addition, new secure communication and navigation systems have been installed on the T-90MS Tagil, and integration into the automated control system is envisaged. In a number of special equipment, a complex for controlling intra-facility and inter-facility interaction, a digital communication channel, a satellite and inertial navigation system, a VHF radio station with two independent radio communication paths (2 VHF in one building), as well as an auxiliary power supply installation appeared. In the fighting compartment and the control compartment, the air conditioning system creates comfort.


                The modernization also affected the complex of protection against conventional weapons. Now it is a modular combined armor protection with improved dynamic protection (ERA) of frontal projections, armor protection with ERA, side projection lattice screens and anti-fragmentation screens on the inner surfaces of the control compartment and the fighting compartment. Automatic curtain setting system with the possibility of using manual mode. There is an electromagnetic protection system. In terms of hull protection, the vehicle underwent a number of significant changes: a modular 3rd generation DZ of the "Relikt" type was installed on the VLD (equivalent to armor steel 1200 mm from the CS), the hull roof was reinforced - especially in the area of ​​the driver's hatch, side and reliably covered with UDZ modules "Relic" (equivalent to armor steel 550 mm from the KS) and lattice screens. In addition to the introduction of a modern fire extinguishing system, the likelihood of fire is reduced on the tank due to the abandonment of the fire hazardous antineutron overhead and replacement of the underlay with fire-resistant anti-fragmentation material of the Kevlar type.

                The main differences between the Relikt complex and the Contact-5 type DZ are as follows:
                - the modular design allows you to quickly and easily replace failed modules;
                - provides a significantly higher level of protection against CS and OBPS;
                - Allows for the minimum modernization of the complex with a simple cost by simply replacing the EDZ with higher characteristics.

                The new Russian T-90MS "Tagil" vehicle uses a B-92S2 engine with increased power and resource. Its power density of 24 hp / t is not lower than the level of modern foreign tanks. For the first time, steering wheel control and an automatic gear shifting system with the ability to switch to manual gear shifting are used, which makes it possible to reduce physical stress on the driver, reduce fuel consumption and increase the acceleration characteristics of an armored vehicle. To enhance mobility and maneuverability, the modernized T-90MS "Tagil" has a combined driver's night device with optical, TV and TPV channels. There is a rear view camera.

                The performance characteristics of the T-90MS "Tagil"
                Combat weight, t 48
                Crew, people - 3
                Length with a gun forward, mm 9530
                Body length, mm 6860
                Width is the general, mm 3460
                Cannon 125 mm 2A46M-5
                Ammunition, rounds 40
                Guided weapons 9K119M "Reflex-M"
                Coaxial machine gun 7,62 mm 6P7K
                Ammunition, rounds 2000
                Anti-aircraft machine gun 7,62 mm 6P7K S UDP (T05BV-1)
                Ammunition, rounds 800
                Dynamic Relic Protection
                Engine V-92S2F2, 1130 l. with.
                Capacity of fuel tanks, l 1200 + 400
                Specific power, l. s / t 24
                Maximum speed on the highway, km / h 60
                Cruising on highway, km 500
                Ground pressure, kg / cm 0,98
                1. Kars
                  Kars 22 March 2012 21: 50
                  +1
                  Personally, I like the declared characteristics .. Tagil .. but correct me if I'm wrong --- is he not yet adopted by the Russian Federation? And I am not aware of his state tests.
                  And as a lover of armored vehicles, I believe that ..Black Eagle .. was more promising.
                  1. PLO
                    PLO 22 March 2012 21: 58
                    0
                    well at least it looks cool
                  2. Ziksura
                    Ziksura 22 March 2012 22: 45
                    0
                    Quote: Kars
                    And as a lover of armored vehicles, I believe that ..Black Eagle .. was more promising.

                    Naturally more promising. As well as the T-95, as well as the idea of ​​unified platforms. We bring the denominator. What happened? Correctly "Armada" on the "Armata" platform. You can be as skeptical as you like about such an idea, but it cannot be denied - it has the right to life. Let's wait for the result, everything will be clear. In the meantime, you shouldn't sing diferambs, and even more so start an old barrel organ - "nothing will work, everything is cut." People do not make a bicycle, but a BASIC TANK.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 22 March 2012 22: 52
                      0
                      Quote: Ziksura
                      Let's wait for the result, everything will be clear. In the meantime, do not sing the diferambs, and even more so start an old barrel organ, "nothing will work, everything is cut."

                      Well this is not about me.
                      and of course we’ll see.
      2. Noni4
        Noni4 22 March 2012 13: 45
        -2
        How can you be so stupid and write ours? The Kharkov OKB has always been and is. And yours is the same as ours. Even ours is bigger, because it’s Kharkov KB. And yours is not yours but made in the USSR. And the same then a soviet tank. How tired of reading such nonsense shkoloty.
      3. anton107798
        anton107798 22 March 2012 23: 01
        0
        when did he become "YOUR"? open the history and see where the main models were produced .... they did the same on Malyshev.
    2. Sergh
      Sergh 22 March 2012 10: 08
      -5
      Yes, for what purpose, with fire they play. Beijing is giving this Ukraine a snot and it will take all tranches back. I don’t understand what they’re thinking about, if it’s about money, then this is not for long. Thailand for Beijing is an old, evil enemy, such as a blood feud. Beijing even jerked at the States because of the supply of weapons to them, and Ukraine in general can block oxygen, which is already absent.
      1. domokl
        domokl 22 March 2012 10: 33
        +8
        Hi Serge .. You are angry and with memory it became really bad laughing Ukrainians are well aware of their prospects for the future ... Only they need to live on yet further ... We are now so proud and with a nose up, and remember 4-5 years ago .. The plants stood, at least some work was given .. There was no GOZ ... export only ...
        Ukraine, in order to preserve at least factories, needs export as air .. Although to hell with bald hair, but to sell so that a penny appears to support even Soviet equipment ... Sales markets then lose rapidly and irrevocably ...
        So this is really for the Ukrainian military-industrial complex replenishment, albeit scanty, but replenishment ..
      2. Dmitry.V
        Dmitry.V 22 March 2012 10: 41
        0
        In this case, they probably rely on the EU and the USA, but the stupid one learns from his mistakes, and the smart one learns from strangers (Greece), then they will also reach Russia.
  3. morpex
    morpex 22 March 2012 10: 24
    +22
    Wow, how does it bother you! Toad, is it pressing? Take it calmly. And by the way, the T-80 tank is Soviet and not Russian, that is, we developed it together. If you judge by your logic, Ardent "Satan" is Ukrainian? did .... And you and we go to the development of the USSR! Now, whatever they did, everything is much worse. Just more advertising. Previously, everything that was not developed was kept with seven seals. That is why they were strong. But now they will not have time to bring to mind, just over the hill. And the army, both you and ours, is sitting on old stuff. This is a problem! And here you are Once again, they decided to make fun of the Ukrainians .... In both countries, the state of the military-industrial complex is much worse than you think. And if there are any glimpses, then rejoice and do not get out of it. Personally, I am always glad when in Russia, something turns out in this plan. Although I live in Ukraine. Because we are one people, no matter what they say and inspire us with our grief - politicians ...
    1. lokdok
      lokdok 22 March 2012 10: 29
      +5
      Yes, no, not a toad, just Oplot is a direct competitor to the T-90, because they are in about the same price range and roughly similar to TTX, so the more you sold Oplotov, the smaller we are the T-90. If it weren’t for that, I would only be happy for the neighbors .-)
    2. Manager
      Manager 22 March 2012 10: 49
      +9
      I totally agree! All the best that was developed was developed in Soviet times together with the brothers Ukrainians and Belarusians. There have always been many talented scientists in Ukraine. And the fact that at this time with our weak economy, our brothers have created the truly best tank in the world only confirms my words. For example, I am very happy for the Ukrainians. The main thing now is that they would not be Conscious. And good luck to them!
      1. sergo0000
        sergo0000 22 March 2012 11: 11
        +6
        Manager,
        And I’m just happy for them! Though in something we don’t stupidly bite, argue, but really compete honestly!
    3. YARY
      YARY 22 March 2012 10: 50
      -10
      We are one nation by blood, no doubt !!!
      But Cain is also brother to Abel. While Ukraine lies under the p and n of the with and and - as an object, she is at least not the sister of Russia. And how will everything come together in your fraternal hands and heads.
      That is the reality.
    4. Ziksura
      Ziksura 22 March 2012 21: 45
      0
      Quote: morpex
      Wow, it hurts you! A toad, is it crushing?

      What "toad"? We're just arguing. Otherwise, it's just not interesting.
  4. sasha.28blaga
    sasha.28blaga 22 March 2012 11: 05
    +3
    Personally, I would be really happy if Ukraine and Russia lived in a neighborly way, at least as with Belarus. Earlier I was in Ukraine, but I was not in Belarus, after the collapse, on the contrary. He was in Belarus, but was not in Ukraine. Pretty decent republic (Belros), kind people, polite, live with hope for the best. What can not be said about Ukraine as a whole. But even so I feel joy for the Ukrainians, brothers of our hohlov.
    From the first time they didn’t let us not post comments, they had to edit, not from evil, but from joy.
    1. general
      general 23 March 2012 19: 55
      0
      I am very glad that we Ukrainians have brothers like you
      sasha.28blaga - you are our brother-like-dac))))
  5. sergey69
    sergey69 22 March 2012 11: 50
    +2
    Soon Ukraine will conclude a contract for the supply of Oplot tanks with Azeibardzhan.
    1. Manager
      Manager 22 March 2012 12: 17
      -2
      Azerbaijanis don’t have enough money for such tanks. Maximum on NATO's pro-ancient rubbish.
      1. Kangarli
        Kangarli 22 March 2012 12: 36
        +2
        Enough for Israeli air defense and drones but not enough for Oplot? Our all esho did not choose either the T-90 (according to rumors MS) or the Bastion. And also the Turkish tank Altai and Pakistani Al-Khalid. The problem is the right choice and we will have money.
        1. karnics
          karnics 22 March 2012 20: 32
          0
          Quote: Kangarli
          Enough for Israeli air defense and drones but not enough for Oplot? Our all esho did not choose either the T-90 (according to rumors MS) or the Bastion. And also the Turkish tank Altai and Pakistani Al-Khalid. The problem is the right choice and we will have money.


          Take the Bastion will not regret it!
          1. REZMovec
            REZMovec 23 March 2012 01: 37
            -1
            No, really! Let them ride in Altai and Al-Khalid !! We need the stronghold ourselves (you won’t get ten tanks) !!!
  6. Prospector
    Prospector 22 March 2012 20: 09
    -1
    Well, I’m glad for our tanostroiteli .... such a time, the plant did not work properly and they did such a miracle ... read about it I think a very good tank .... things were always done on Malyshev .... the same t -34 t-64 ....

    Yes, and start a debate on what is better than ours or yours ... garbage all this ... time and orders will show whose better .... and for the future ... then there’s a war ... think for yourself who gets the plant wink .... Kharkov, after all, at the very border))))) So the Russians rejoice that we are doing something because in the future it can help a lot
    1. Russian1
      Russian1 April 3 2012 03: 19
      -2
      You can continue to be born as much as you like, but you can’t get away from the facts.

      Russia's share in the global arms market is 23%, and second only to the US share (32%), and after that you still dare to say that Ukraine will help Russia with something ?? are you probably joking?
  7. Russian1
    Russian1 April 3 2012 02: 39
    -2
    Oh, I don’t give a damn personally, even if the stronghold will be better than our T90, although this is far from being a fact, but tanks will not help now, as you don’t understand, tanks are everything in the past, the economy decides who has more and more, for example, the economy Ukraine is almost at the very bottom of the 37th place in the world, and the Russian economy takes 6th place, we have more dough and the loot decides everything and we have more than enough resources, plus Ukraine does not have nuclear weapons and the Russian Federation has it and so what are you twitching at you have few nuclear problems? India buys our T90s and India is much richer than Thailand and 100000 times stronger, what's the use? it’s just that if I go to the store and I don’t have enough money in my pocket for fresh bread, but I’ll have enough for stale, of course I’ll buy stale, the same situation with Thailand, but I say again even if the stronghold is better for me to spit, because besides nuclear Russia still has the latest medium-range missiles that Iran is buying from us right now, so dear Ukrainians need to inflate an elephant’s fly if Russia needs it, in less than 10 minutes Russia will wipe all Ukraine off the face of the earth with old Soviet bombers, not to mention new ones, so what's the point argue about some kind of tank in our day? tanks have long gone out of fashion.
    1. Kars
      Kars April 3 2012 13: 07
      +1
      Dear visitors of the portal Military Review I want to introduce you to the provocateur and bring his letter to me in the PM

      Incoming Messages | Sent Messages | send a message
      English1 Today, 13: 03 | You don’t care. Nothing, Russia will soon drop a bomb on Ukraine as it used to be the USA and Japan, and then it won’t care, I made sure that Ukrainians are good at fighting on the Internet.


      I leave this to the court of administration and users

      Listen, comrade, you’re fooling because of one Ukrainian tank, you are inflating an elephant, but you lose sight of your worthless economy, which occupies the 37 place in the world, and our economy takes the 6 place in the world, we have a lot more resources, and even Russia takes the 2 place in the world in all arms exports second only to the United States, and I must remind you that at any moment Russia can wipe out Ukraine from the face of the earth. At the present time, tanks will not help, because we have nuclear weapons that you don’t have, well, besides this, there’s a lot of other things, we’ll bomb our whole Ukraine if necessary, so be afraid, Ukraine is already on its knees in front of Russia and remove the hammer and sickle from your avatars, do not disgrace comrade Stalin erysipelas Bandera. The economy decides everything, cut it on your nose, we have you as we want, Yanukovych is our puppet, we put it to you, we control all your land and it will always be like that, and very soon we will punish you so be afraid, forget chtoli like ours Peter the first of all your Cossacks exterminated, and this despite the fact that the Swedes and Tatars helped you, but the Russians nevertheless beat you to ashes, and at that time there was still no nuclear weapon, like a tusik heating pad p .... whether your Zaporozhye cockerels didn’t forget this, or you will regret it, you have few problems? who are you running into ?? to a nuclear power? to a country that is friends with China? And China loves us very much and buys our weapons, and this is a country that stands at 2 place in the economy.
      what the answer was. I do not care
      1. Aleksey67
        Aleksey67 April 3 2012 13: 11
        0
        Kars, "spring exacerbation" nothing else comes to mind wink
        1. Kars
          Kars April 3 2012 13: 12
          0
          These are the people (there are some among Ukrainians) that spoil our lives
        2. Russian1
          Russian1 April 4 2012 09: 21
          -2
          Why call the truth exacerbation?
  8. Russian1
    Russian1 April 4 2012 09: 16
    -1
    No, but what did I say something wrong? Russia can wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth at any moment, and that’s a fact, it’s true, why would they be offended by the truth?

    The administration, well, they themselves provoke us Russians, created some kind of tank and now consider themselves stronger than us, but for this you have to kill !!! for these show-offs, it’s just necessary to punish at least one Ukrainian town, and I will very much wait for Romania to kick the banderlogs, I hope that Russia will help Romania, Romania ahead !!!!!
  9. Russian1
    Russian1 April 4 2012 10: 14
    -1
    No, but what did I say something wrong? Russia can wipe Ukraine off the face of the earth at any moment, and that’s a fact, it’s true, why would they be offended by the truth?

    The administration, well, they themselves provoke us Russians, created some kind of tank and now consider themselves stronger than us, but for this you have to kill !!! for these show-offs, it’s just necessary to punish at least one Ukrainian town, and I will very much wait for Romania to punish Ukrainian soldiers, I hope that Russia will help Romania, Romania forward !!!!! I urge all of Russia to take and help the Romanian people protect their native land from the Nazi invaders, if we don’t do this, Ukraine will attack us in the future, I seriously say we need to act, maybe you think I'm a troll but I'm a real person, although I do not live in America for Russia of my own free will, please let us help the poor Romanians.

    Comrades Russians, we are simply obligated to take some measures, we can’t ignore it, first Ukrainian mercenaries attacked Iraq, killed civilians there, then they sold weapons to Georgians, today Romania gets in the way, and what will happen next? Russia?? no, this cannot be allowed, the site administration distribute this post of mine in all the Russian State Forums and don’t ban me, please, I’m not breaking anything, I’m only telling the truth, understand me correctly.

    I just want Russia to always be safe, but for this it is necessary to weaken the enemy who lives near the Russian borders, so far he does not pose any danger, but in the future everything is possible and if we continue to sit back and say "yes, these are our brothers Slavs "and feel sorry for them what they want Russia to do, they use the kindness of the Russian Federation and in the future they will start an offensive, as you don’t understand, this is the same scenario as with the Russian Empire when the Zaporozhye Sich was preparing to overthrow Peter the 1st and capture ours with you Empire, but thank God our great Peter the first quickly figured out what was happening and got rid of the enemy until he gained even more strength, I really hope for Putin, but still it is necessary to inform all state forums about the growing danger near the Russian borders, and this is already far from a joke.

    Dear administration, I pray you do not delete my posts on your knees, please do not ban me, but consider my suggestions and think about the future of our homeland, I’m not making anything up, please don’t think that I'm crazy, I’m saying it all in full Seriously, I am not against Ukrainians, I am against anti-Russian groups in Ukraine that are growing every day, now they are the majority, form my post in your own words and distribute it in all state forums, the fate of Russia, which we simply do not have the right to lose, depends on it this karks specifically wants you to ban me because I am only telling the truth, I’m not making anything up, leave my comments, I beg you.
  10. Russian1
    Russian1 April 10 2012 03: 51
    0
    They created this tank to their beloved with the help of NATO, because NATO helps the Saloids in everything, the whole Ukraine has long been bought by America and Russia and is divided, this is a fact.