Chinese fighter J-20 officially adopted

During the regular press conference in Beijing, the official representative of the Ministry of National Defense of China, U Qian, confirmed the official adoption of the newest Chinese fighter J-20.

The fighting machine showed itself well during the flight tests, after which the Central Military Council decided to formally adopt the plane into the armament of the PLA.

- transmits the words of the officer edition of "Zhongguo zhibao."

A spokesman for the defense ministry did not specify how many units had already been transferred to parts of the PLA Air Force.

According to the data provided by the Chinese side, the range of the J-20 fighter is 5,5 thousand km, while the combat radius of the Chinese fighter does not exceed 2 thousand km. The crew consists of one pilot. The first test flight took place on 11 on January 2011 of the year. The fighter was first shown to the public in November 2016 at the International Airshow in Zhuhai.

According to military experts, the Chinese J-20 will be equipped with extended-range air-to-air missiles and an advanced active radar system. In fact, J-20 will become the main rival of the American aircraft F-22 and F-35, while most of the characteristics of the Chinese machine significantly exceeds the American indicators, reports A REGNUM

Comments

[Uncle lee]

There are no words! Some pee, pee, pee, pee, pee, pee! And China passed us in aviation!

[Observer2014]

Uncle lee

And China passed us in aviation!

Who are you? the USSR

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Observer2014

who is this?

Russian aircraft industry!
Already adopted!

[Observer2014]

Uncle lee

Russian aircraft industry!

AND ! Russian. And what did he get around? In quantity. Or do you want to say that this device is a breakthrough in military technology? Yes, he has our engines, let's start over. And not new ones.
Aerobatics from the J-20

For comparison

[tchoni]

Give you, sir, in the bosom of life with your aerobatics. The ability to entertain the crowd has absolutely nothing to do with the fighting qualities of the car.

[Pavlovsky]

Well skazazuuuul, this maneuverability of the machine do not belong to combat qualities?

[bulvas]

Quote: Uncle Lee

There are no words! Some pee, pee, pee, pee, pee, pee! And China passed us in aviation!

Quote: tchoni

Give you, sir, in the bosom of life with your aerobatics. The ability to entertain the crowd has absolutely nothing to do with the fighting qualities of the car.

Adopted to start selling, I think this is their main thing

Do you know the real qualities of this aircraft?
His real degree of readiness?

It’s too early to judge who bypassed whom

[ZVO]

Quote: Pavlovsky

Well skazazuuuul, this maneuverability of the machine do not belong to combat qualities?

Do not confuse the maneuverability of the exhibition machine with the modified (or even turned off) EMDS system sharpened for a specific test pilot with a drill system in which many maneuvers are not allowed EMDS,
If you did not know this, read the memoirs of I. Wolf and articles by S. Bogdan

[tchoni]

Quote: Pavlovsky

Well skazazuuuul, this maneuverability of the machine do not belong to combat qualities?

Why? Refers to. But not decisive. Do you want to be convinced of this? Compare Bf-109 and I-153. The latter has a turn time of 8 seconds, the former has about 20. But the Messer can impose battle conditions on the pilot of the gull using the advantage of speed. The Messer pilot is free to join the battle, free to leave it. From this we can conclude that maneuverability has ceased to be a DETERMINING characteristic of a fighter 70 years ago. Is it worth talking about our time, when a fighter is determined not only and not so much by flight characteristics, but by the characteristics of avionics, weapons complex, a complex of on-board electronic warfare systems and radio-electronic ballistic visibility?

[Michael newage]

I-153 and BF-109, these are different generations. And Messer beat Seagull not because of speed, but because of complete superiority on the verticals. More powerful engine, better thrust-to-weight ratio. This indicator can be easily found by comparing the weight of the aircraft and the thrust / power of the engines, and the maneuver can only be assessed visually. Avionics at all is not clear who has what and show his work at an air show is unrealistic. So we look at the mass and engines in LLTH, then maneuverability at an air show, and then evaluate what is written in the advertising booklet ticks about avionics. In this order.

[tchoni]

Quote: Michael Newage

I-153 and BF-109, these are different generations. And Messer beat Seagull not because of speed, but because of complete superiority on the verticals. More powerful engine, better thrust-to-weight ratio. This indicator is easy to find by comparing the weight of the aircraft and the thrust / power of the engines, and evaluate the maneuver

Don't write nonsense. the seagull with the M62 engine had the same power as the Bf-109E. (1000 hp) and slightly less weight. The difference in the rate of climb for these machines is negligible. About 1 m / s. Here is a link for you .. Read the article and do not write any more nonsense https://topwar.ru/index.php?do=favorites&doac
tion = add & id = 71012

[Michael newage]

Dear layman, firstly, when I write something, I know WHAT I write . And you not only brought an amateur article which, by the way, in no way confirms your words, you also do not know how to read what they write to you. Where did you see the word "in my answerrate of climb". I wrote about vertical battle not about climb. And vertical combat is a combination speeds, climb rate, dive speeds и Max. dive speed. So Seagull lost in ALL of these disciplines to Friedrich. Yes, yes to Friedrich. I can clearly see how you cheated and began to attract the ears of Emil’s characteristics, which during the invasion of the USSR were already withdrawn from service and disappeared from the eastern front within a few months.
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/bf109e.html
Please compare the characteristics of the CARBURETOR M-62 with its 1000 hp and the INJECTION Daimler-Benz DB 601E-1 with its 1350 hp Now compare the throttle ratio of Frederick and half fuel and the same for Seagull. In any case, it is better and do not cling to it. This is just one of the components in vertical combat. Forgive me my mistake that I have not brought you another 3. True, and you alone have brought. But they had no idea what exactly was the matter , more about that below) Plus, you need to explain how the injection is better than the carb in a combat fighter? Yes Easy. Engine on karba stalled with a sharp return of the handle from himself. By inertia, gasoline strove up in the carbox and did not get into the engine. A sharp dive is impossible, which means it is impossible to quickly gain speed.
And now, regarding the significant speed difference. Another educational program. Battle speed Not only to catch up with someone or flee "in a straight line." Speed ​​is energy which can be spent on faster climb than your enemy on a slower car. This is exactly what the pilots of the Messers used. Faster Messers just more quickly went to the top where they weren’t reached by gulls, and then dived (recall, Messer dives “better” gulls) like kites. If failure, re-climb, by changing the speed gained at the peak, to climb and again approach from the peak. And not only that, with this tactic the Germans swaggered the floor of the war against our YAK 1-7, all LaGGs and Mig at low altitudes. And only with the advent of Cobra and La-5 did the situation begin to level off. That's what vertical advantage is, not speed.
So do not throw me an amateur article with the words about speed superiority. The one who wrote this article understands the issue worse than me. And you even more so. If you don’t understand what I’m trying to convey to you, read it again and don’t write any more bullshit .

[tchoni]

Quote: Michael Newage

The one who wrote this article understands the issue worse than me.

It is even more surprising that you got involved in this dispute)))) Accept the good advice of an old man - get yourself a girlfriend. This is a much better way out of the crisis of puberty than surfing the Internet and proving that you are right in a "nothing to argue" debate.

[YakimovSS]

Hint that you have data on the real characteristics of the J-20 and say Su-35?
Entertainer, you are ours.

[Solomon Kane]

Yes, he has our engines, let's start again

.... and a glider with a MiG 1.44 is "lapped" ........

[SERGUS]

Quote: Solomon Kane

.... and the MiG 1.44 glider is “slime”

In the SU-57, the glider is lapped with the SU-27. Yes, but not about that. Then everyone begins to hysteria: the Chinese are ahead of us, everything is gone ! Personally, my opinion is that you do not have to step on the same rake and be the first at the expense of quality, as you often did in the Union. It’s better to systematically bring the car to mind and then take it into service.

[Solomon Kane]

I completely agree with you. Maybe that's why they are in no hurry from the 57th?
Perfection takes time .....

[Voyager]

Quote: SERGUS

In the SU-57, the glider is laced with the SU-27

Are you serious now?

[SERGUS]

Quote: Voyager

Are you serious now?

Maybe I’m wrong, I’m not an aircraft designer, but how much I don’t look at the SU-57 and 27 in the glider itself I see a lot in common: wings, tail assembly, the location of the engine air intakes and the engines themselves are all about the same. Even the tail boom protruding beyond the nozzles of the engines is preserved. Only surfaces have become more even and angular to give invisibility. Of course, I’m not a stupid person, and I understand that with an external similarity, let’s say the differences are huge. But after all, if I understand this, I think that both the J-20 and the MFI 1.44 have enough differences in the glider. If not correct.

[Voyager]

Well, all of the above you, I would call rather continuity, which is quite logical, because this is the same design bureau and traditions are alive and the experience is used gained on previous generations.

[SERGUS]

Quote: Voyager

I would call rather continuity

Continuity is also good, just MIG when designing MFI 1.44 did not use the MIG-29 scheme (which essentially uses the same scheme as the SU-27) but used the so-called duck circuit developed by TsAGI, in particular, it was alleged that this scheme allows fully realize the capabilities of engines with UVT. In any case, MFI 1.44 remained a project, let’s discuss the T-50 when the car will have real combat or at least the experience of exercises, because it’s judged not by words but by deeds

[Solomon Kane]

On February 29, 2000, prototype 1.44 first flew into the sky. It was a modified model 1.42. It was this aircraft that they planned to launch into mass production and take into service. Then another modification of the aircraft was created - MiG 1.46, but it was never built. The project was closed.

Many experts suggest that some of the developments in MiG 1.44 were transferred to China. In 2010, the first photos of the new Chinese fighter J-20, which is very similar to Mikoyan 1.46

[Orakul2000]

Good day. If we talk about similar gliders, then there is much more in common with J-35 Draken. Take a look in google.
With respect.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Orakul2000

If we talk about similar gliders, then there is much more in common with the J-35 Draken.

With the J-35 Draken, the similarity is weak, with the SAAB JA.37 Viggen a little more, but with the MiG-1.44 almost one in one.

[Lex.]

And what is Google's standard of truth?

[Solomon Kane]

he meant the su-47

[RASKAT]

Yes, let the ignorant rejoice, they do not know what engines are on a Chinese plane and which radar. They see the picture as children and think that transformers are in the arsenal in the American army.

[JD1979]

Well, well-versed, I look before you report directly to both the Russian and Chinese military-industrial complex, and Americans are also in the queue. The only plug in Chinese aircraft was in the engines, but the lag was almost eliminated, and soon it will be possible to purchase engines from them, given the effective managers in managing state corporations. And on the radar ... we are all in flight at the moment, the Chinese have bypassed us, plus the developed electronic industry, manufacturing technology for almost any microprocessors, and the avionics of Chinese aircraft will soon compete if they are no longer equal to the American one. AFARs, they rivet on any equipment from airplanes to ships, we have only one exhibits 10 years on the show ride and only on the Su-57 did something, but that no one knows for secret. At the expense of maneuverability and comparison of aerobatics, I am laughing with those who scream everywhere about it. Do you think the battle will take place by agreement of the pilots not to use rockets and move closer at point-blank range, in order to later boast who has a smaller turning radius or greater angular velocity? Moreover, they will still be split in pairs and will converge in turn .... A rocket withstanding overload of fifty G, it’s absolutely violet that there the aircraft rotates dozens of kilometers from it with loads of up to 10G. Three main parameters are now being decided: intrinsic stealth, the ability to detect as far as possible, and modern missiles. No one will let you approach a short distance, either they will throw them with rockets, or they will dump them.

[Viktor.12.71]

Quote: JD1979

Three main parameters are now being decided: intrinsic stealth, the ability to detect as far as possible, and modern missiles.

Most people simply think that aerial combat is a dogfight like during the Korean and Vietnamese war, forgetting that in the skies over Yugoslavia, NATO fighters shot down missiles with missiles.

[Days]

With the advantage in quantity that the NATO fighters had on Belgrade (two more zeroes), they could throw their hats, which they did. This example does not say anything at all.

[WapentakeLokki]

Missile fool you should think for it, otherwise the story with the F-4 and MiG-15 in Vietnam will repeat itself. And besides the hardware stealth there are also aerobatics '' bell '' and `` cobra '' allowing a breakdown in homing with radar (the plane crashes, the Doppler effect does not see it somehow) so that over-maneuverability is needed and if the Americans want to step on the same rake as in the 60s of the last century the flag is in their hands

[And Us Rat]

Quote: WapentakeLokki

aerobatics '' bell '' and '' cobra '' allowing disruption in homing with radar

Lettingwhether, in the past tense, years in 80, when GOS were much more primitive, with an old Doppler radar and a very narrow viewing angle.

Quote: WapentakeLokki

the plane crashes the Doppler effect it does not see it somehow

Not so, it doesn’t stop reflecting on the plane, otherwise all helicopters and stationary objects would be “invisible” to radars.
It was about the aircraft abruptly leaving the radar “tracking line”, and the radar did not have time to correct the missile trajectory. But for this, a “cobra” or “bell” is not necessary; any sharp maneuver had a chance of success.
But against today's missiles, with AFAR, azimuth of guidance beyond 120 degrees, multiple engagement engines and the possibility of maneuvering behind 40g - no over-maneuverability will have any effect. Especially against short-range missiles designed for maximum battle dynamics (for some missiles with a target maneuvering outside of 15g).
Effective defenses against today's missiles are electronic warfare, snare-traps and stealth.
Over-maneuverability can give an advantage exclusively in cannon fighting, and then against not the most experienced opponent. Experienced - will impose a sniper battle at high speeds, where over-maneuverability is impossible due to restrictions on overloads on the pilot's body. And there is no sense in super-maneuverability at low speeds if the enemy goes beyond the cannon reach (due to high speed) by the time the "over" maneuver is completed.

[Gransasso]

Quote: And Us Rat

Quote: WapentakeLokki

aerobatics '' bell '' and '' cobra '' allowing disruption in homing with radar

Lettingwhether, in the past tense, years in 80, when GOS were much more primitive, with an old Doppler radar and a very narrow viewing angle.

Quote: WapentakeLokki

the plane crashes the Doppler effect it does not see it somehow

Not so, it doesn’t stop reflecting on the plane, otherwise all helicopters and stationary objects would be “invisible” to radars.
It was about the aircraft abruptly leaving the radar “tracking line”, and the radar did not have time to correct the missile trajectory. But for this, a “cobra” or “bell” is not necessary; any sharp maneuver had a chance of success.
But against today's missiles, with AFAR, an azimuth of guidance of 120 degrees, multiple-engagement engines and the possibility of a maneuver of 40g - no super maneuverability will have any effect. Especially against short-range missiles designed for maximum battle dynamics (with a target maneuvering up to 20g).
Effective defenses against today's missiles are electronic warfare, snare-traps and stealth.
Over-maneuverability can give an advantage exclusively in cannon fighting, and then against not the most experienced opponent. Experienced - will impose a sniper battle at high speeds, where over-maneuverability is impossible due to restrictions on overloads on the pilot's body. And there is no sense in super-maneuverability at low speeds if the enemy goes beyond the cannon reach (due to high speed) by the time the "over" maneuver is completed.

... A glaring voice ... You destroy all the wet dreams of the contingent ... the Pugachev cobra is ours ...

[ZVO]

Quote: Gransasso

... A glaring voice ... You destroy all the wet dreams of the contingent ... the Pugachev cobra is ours ...

I still recommend writing the real author of "Cobra".
Testers. astronaut, hero of the Soviet Union
... recently departed Igor Wolf ...

[Gransasso]

Quote: ZVO

Quote: Gransasso

... A glaring voice ... You destroy all the wet dreams of the contingent ... the Pugachev cobra is ours ...

I still recommend writing the real author of "Cobra".
Testers. astronaut, hero of the Soviet Union
... recently departed Igor Wolf ...

Thank you .. consider ..

[zivXP]

Quote: Observer2014

Uncle lee

Russian aircraft industry!

AND ! Russian. And what did he get around? In quantity. Or do you want to say that this device is a breakthrough in military technology? Yes, he has our engines, let's start over. And not new ones.
Aerobatics from the J-20

Wow. it also flies. Well done, the Chinese, even taught such a log to fly.

[Mih1974]

Just now, the thought came - the Chinese are trying to make an "improved MiG-31" . And with the Su-57 - there’s still a little worked out machine, it’s laying turns very carefully, rather even cautiously. "But it’s clear that this is a problem not of the car, but of the pilot. Video, Su’s huge potential, the plane - I can smell it very powerful from the inside out - it will have a new one" figures "invented.

[vovanpain]

Quote: Observer2014

Who are you? the USSR

USSR Sergey Unfortunately no. Our T-50 made its first flight much earlier than the Chinese, I don’t remember when, but China is pushing into the series, and we just finished the 2nd stage dvigun.

[maxim947]

The first flight took place not much earlier - in the 2010th. It's all about engines, it's better to wait for the engines of the second stage than to drive horses for the poster. And so, of course, they are busy for a long time, and not only with the T-50 ...

[Stas157]

Quote: maxim947

better to wait for the engines of the second stage

So far there has been a different opinion. The fact that the engines of the first stage is fully consistent with the 5th generation aircraft. It was directly emphasized that this is normal - first fly on one engine, and then upgrade. What has changed then? Maybe this is an excuse for delaying the project?

[Voyager]

It seems that nothing has changed, and the first cars in operation should go with the engine of the first stage.

[Stas157]

Quote: EvilLion

what the hell are you talking about?

Quote: EvilLion

They are purchasing engines from us.

Who cares where and what they buy? They have a plane (accepted). And we do not. And as for the engines, they soon promise their own.

[just exp]

Well, ours can promise, ours are better than the Chinese in this regard, they promised PAK FA back in 2013. and armature by the same year promised.
something and our know how to promise on a professional level. and I don’t think that the Chinese are far behind ours in this regard.

[Voyager]

About armature in 2013 was not even heard. As for PAK FA, there is a big difference between promises before sanctions and after sanctions.

[just exp]

in 2010 they abandoned vol. 195, and began the Armata project, in the form of a universal platform, and wrote that it would go into production from 2013, because they didn’t do it from scratch, but taking into account developments in vol. 195.
I then, and not only me, wrote that the deadlines are too unrealistic. they won’t keep up, as I remembered that the YF-22 had 15 years between its first flight and adoption, given that they didn’t have our 90s (collapse, loss of personnel, etc.). but on the forums cheers-patriots (the patriot himself, but with a sense of reality) shouted that they say such people can’t lie, they are in the know what and how. and if there is a delay, then a maximum of one year. after that, both PAK FA and Armata are promised to us every year.
that’s why I suggested bureaucrats cut their tongues so that they wouldn’t rattle and pour in unrealistic terms, as this undermines confidence in the defense industry. and it’s not the fault of the defense industry, she does everything that she can and does well. but when some set deadlines and these deadlines are postponed every year, then you remember how we laughed at the F-35 whose delivery was postponed a bunch of times.

[Voyager]

The big difference is that at least 10 different planes can be accepted, but this does not mean that they will be good and meet the needs.

[EvilLion]

I still did not understand what I had violated, because you, in principle, do not understand what you are writing about. In the history of only the USSR and Russia, there were airplanes that were mass-built without adoption, and there were like the same Ka-50, which were put into service, but there was no sense in that.

It is possible to wave a piece of paper and launch into the series the most defective model for any reason, from the fact that the slanted hieroglyph put neither motor, more perfect ours, nor other equipment.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Stas157

They have a plane (accepted). And we do not. And as for the engines, they soon promise their own.

Acceptance into service and the beginning of serial production, this is not the same thing.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: EvilLion

Dvigun of the second stage is that it tears everything that exists in the world now ...

No need to shag grandma.
The new aircraft engine, known as the “30 product”, will have increased thrust to 17,5-19,5 tons, afterburner, and he not done yet.
For comparison - Pratt & Whitney F135 (F-35) - the same 19,5 tons on afterburner, only he in series with 2010 of the year.

[just exp]

only the dimensions are such that the engine will not fit on the 2 engine.
if you take the 600 version.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: just explo

only the dimensions are such that the engine will not fit on the 2 engine.

Which ones? Which plane? Why not fit? Comparison of dimensions in numbers - if not difficult.
Comrades, well, you answer normally, what kind of "cries from the back rows"? We are not at the rally.

[Muvka]

Quote: And Us Rat

Quote: just explo

only the dimensions are such that the engine will not fit on the 2 engine.

Which ones? Which plane? Why not fit? Comparison of dimensions in numbers - if not difficult.
Comrades, well, you answer normally, what kind of "cries from the back rows"? We are not at the rally.

Catch:
F-135-PW-100/400
Length: 5,59 m
Weight: 1701 kg

AL-41F1S
Length: 4990 mm
Weight: 1380 kg

The maximum diameter is approximately the same.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Muvka

The maximum diameter is approximately the same.

As required.
Give our specialists from the aviation industry, the X-NUMX F-2 engine and the Su-135 glider, and they will cross you “hedgehog and snake” in six months, enough experience. And get at the exit the Su-27 with traction on the afterburner almost 27 tons.

[Muvka]

And the 60 cm length doesn't scare you anymore? And I wrote the data for the reason that ours make almost the same engine as the F-35 in power, but much easier and less.

[voyaka uh]

And why is the difference of 60 cm and the weight of 300 kg so critical for the engine?
The plane takes tons of ammunition and tons of fuel.
The increase in traction is significant.

[kasatky]

Now, if the American engine would be 60 cm shorter and 300 kg lighter - it would be the achievement of the century !!!

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Muvka

And the 60 cm length doesn't scare you anymore?

It is necessary to watch the layout of the aircraft. This can be a minus (you need to rearrange the plane, or even completely recycle it), or it can be a plus (the duct will be shorter).

[Mih1974]

And wake up in flight, wake up? Or fly only connected constantly to the tanker.
Actually, the “Chinese” of such a mutant also reminds, maybe the Chinese dream of transplanting it on engines from the Fu-35 and in advance they filled the fuel tanks wherever possible and where to lower them.
Yes, and 60 cm is not a "tail of the dog", the "broadening" will be great, but you know HOW it will affect aerodynamics? Here I am - no, maybe not at all. Yes, and 800 kilograms will also not add “harmony” to the aircraft. No wonder they nicknamed the F-35 - "pregnant penguin."

[Voyager]

The problem is that the issue must be considered comprehensively. Given all the current performance characteristics, which are many more than the traction itself. Have you considered specific? 7,96 kgf / kg for "F135" versus 11,1 the "product 30". A big difference :)

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Voyager

7,96 kgf / kg for "F135" versus 11,1 for "30 product"

Please indicate the source, please.
I do not find information on any specific gravity of any of them.
I found only the maximum after-thrust - 13 tons at F135. The "30 product" does not currently have these parameters, because it is not ready. (AL-41F1 9.5 tons have afterburner mode and 15 tons with afterburner).

[Voyager]

F135 has a dry weight of 5400 pounds, which is equal to 2449kg. With a thrust of 19 tons, the specific power is 7,96 kgf / kg. However, if you need a specific proof regarding the thrust of Pub.30, then I will not give it for obvious reasons :) Therefore, you can consider unconfirmed data / rumors.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Voyager

The F135 has a dry weight of 5400 pounds, which is equal to 2449kg.

Where is the droushka?
In all sources - Weight: 1700 kg

[just exp]

just looked. mattress engines give 17-19 tons of traction, but weigh 1.7 tons, ours, for example, AL-41F, give 15 tons of traction, but weigh 1.2 tons.

[EvilLion]

Do you even understand that Ed. 30 should be in dimensions Edition 117? And the F135 is a larger motor with a traction-to-weight ratio of about the same as the 117. With the advent of 30 with the declared parameters, F135 will become obsolete. Another thing is that it will not appear soon, but even without it, the PAK FA is not inferior to the F-22 in traction and tears like an ace heating pad, like the F-35, and any Chinese crafts, especially J-31, in which the 2 engine from the MiG -29 stuck, so, most likely, there the whole power plant weighs more than the F-35, giving out less traction.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: EvilLion

but even without it, PAK FA is not inferior to the F-22 in traction and vomits like a tazik heating pad

And again, you don’t have to trick grandmother.
Su-57 with AL-41F1. (Not commissioned)
Weight: empty: 18500 kg
take-off weight: with 100% of fuel: 30610 kg
maximum take-off weight: 37000 kg
Thrust engine 9.5ton, 15ton afterburner. (Series missing, unit production)
Total 30 tons of afterburner traction at 37 tons of maximum weight.
F-22 with Pratt & Whitney F119 (In service since 2005 year)
Weight: empty: 19700 kg
take-off weight: with 100% of fuel: 29200 kg
maximum take-off weight: 38000 kg
Engine thrust: 11.7 tons and 16.8 tons afterburner (12 years in production)
Total 33.6 tons of afterburner traction at 38 tons of maximum weight.

Attention, the question is - what’s it up to anyone?

[Raf01]

Unfortunately you are right, moreover, this is a modification of the Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100, which will soon be 20 years old.

[Grenader]

Quote: vovanpain

USSR Sergey hi unfortunately not. request Here our T-50 made its first flight much earlier than the Chinese, I don’t remember when, but China is pushing into the series, and we just finished the 2nd stage dvigun.

On AL-41F1 engines, the Su-57 could have been launched into the series for a long time, but the military needed a new aircraft with better performance. Let the Chinese fly, there will be no over-the-air supersound on it and there is no problem with the maneuverability. Such a VKS aircraft is not an adversary.

[EvilLion]

It will be launched with such engines. Nobody will wait for the 2030 year until such a complex and breakthrough thing is brought. In any case, the pre-production party will be built before the 2020, and after the 2020, the release, at least per squadron per year, should continue.

[xetai9977]

If REGNUM reported this, then everything is clear. Very "true" site.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Uncle Lee

And China passed us in aviation!

At the pace bypassed adoption, no more. No more so far.

[Polite Moose]

Quote: Ingvar 72

At the pace bypassed adoption, no more.

I am joining. You can generally transfer drawings directly from the kulman to the assembly. And immediately put into service. But, as they say: hurry up - b ... joke.

[Stas157]

Quote: Ingvar 72

At the pace bypassed adoption, no more. No more so far.

Well, by the number of adopted weapons will be bypassed, too.
It is not pleasant to realize that the second country in which the fifth generation aircraft appeared is not Russia.

[Muvka]

What makes you think that he is 5 generations? Tell me, do engines correspond to the 5th generation? Is he super maneuverable? Do you know the characteristics of AFAR? And what is stealth? Tell me, do you have all this information?

[Stas157]

Quote: Muvka

What makes you think that he is 5 generations? Tell me, do dvies correspond to the 5th generation?

Here you do not need to argue with me. This is the Chinese claim. The engine is of course old, but apparently enough for cruising supersonic, otherwise the Chinese could not have called it a 5th generation airplane. And about Afar, so we still do not have it!

[EvilLion]

There is no cruising supersonic there. And the Chinese can call him anything. Actually, there is no 5 generation either, there are specific aircraft with their specific performance characteristics for which the Chinese will have no chance of approaching the PAK FA.

[Sharansky]

Quote: Muvka

Tell me, do engines correspond to the 5th generation?

Yes, there are Xian WS-15 engines with 18kN thrust. Approximately correspond to the not yet finished product 30 for PAK-Fa of the second stage.

[Muvka]

How did you get the idea that this engine is now on the J-20? Do you have information that they did it?

[Sharansky]

The Chinese say what they are worth. I naturally have no way to get into the plane itself. Just like you.

[Muvka]

And the Chinese say that they have excellent rockets, which are better than all the others in terms of characteristics, only this year they launched 8 pieces, 2 of which ended in failure. 25% failure. That's horrible.

[Sharansky]

and yet everything that I did not see with my own eyes does not exist. Including some sort of Su-57.

[EvilLion]

- My neighbor says that maybe 8 once a night.
- Well, you say.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: EvilLion

EvilLion Today, 11:47 ↑
- My neighbor says that maybe 8 once a night.
- Well, you say.

British scientists in one small village decided to find out the average length of a member of the inhabitants. It turned out 23 cm.
They decided to study such an outstanding result more carefully and sent a second group of scientists there. They got an average length of 12cm.
After that, the methods were compared. In the first case, the length was determined by a survey from the words of men. In the second case, scientists measured with a ruler.

[Sharansky]

how well you described Rogozin and Co.

[EvilLion]

When our PR specialists tell me about the 30 Edition on the 18 tons, which will appear a little more, I get a laugh. To increase such cravings when the development resources of engines are close to exhaustion and fight for every percentage of growth, this is not a trivial task for companies with experience in designing the most advanced engines, such as 117 Edition and F135. The Chinese are not able to mass-produce even what we have long ago become commonplace.

[Sharansky]

yes, there’s one photoshop around, only you yourself 146% are sitting at a Chinese computer and using a Chinese phone

[K-612-O]

This is still not a 5th generation airplane, but an analogue of the Su-35, only its own on Su30 engines, which again must be bought from us. Yes, they made the groundwork for further development in the field of glider, but in fact they made a 4 ++ aircraft, which they did not have before.

[Viktor.12.71]

Quote: K-612-O

which they did not have before.

China had nothing 20 years ago. And now? They are modernizing the economy, the main task is to develop the domestic market and they succeed. I’m even afraid to imagine what will happen in 20 years.

[K-612-O]

moreover, the economy is here, grandmas do not solve everything.

[Viktor.12.71]

Quote: K-612-O

moreover, the economy is here, grandmas do not solve everything.

Without economy there will be no money, without money there will be no army. Economics and money determine the strength of the state. A simple example, if Russia makes 50 fighters, then China will make 150 because of its economy, and China’s military spending is 3 times that of Russia. I’m silent about the USA.

[ZVO]

Quote: K-612-O

moreover, the economy is here, grandmas do not solve everything.

Grandmas may not decide, but big dibs decide all.
Aircraft, an analogue of the MS-21 themselves built.
They are building the analogue of 787, albeit on Russian minds, but they will have all the technology, they will have all the R&D development.
And so in everything.
All. almost all production lines and processes are already in use in China.
For the sake of cost reduction, the vast majority of companies transferred production to China.
And these are not T-shirts and underpants at all.
These are robots and materials, these are technological lines, etc.
With such a wealth of knowledge and skills - you can shoot yourself.

[hrych]

Quote: Uncle Lee

And China passed us in aviation!

What are you saying! Ah, on our same engines forty years ago. Cool. You look at the freak more closely, he is a stupid idiot.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: hrych

on our own engines

And will Kuzmich or Petrovich retire and who will make such beautiful engines? Are the managers effective?

[hrych]

What are you about. Like Kuzmich, supersonic glider was pulled by a shag, a screwdriver and a chisel You have strange ideas about our defense industry. The USSR can’t forget everything, so 26 years have passed since then, all Kuzmichi have already leaned back Youngsters do things that not just Lee and Chanam, the Kuzmichs themselves are unattainable

[Uncle lee]

Quote: hrych

Young growth do

Even during the time of perestroika, Kuzmichi raised the question of their replacement with young specialists! Young and then there was, and even more so now. And this is not only in the military-industrial complex, but everywhere.

[EvilLion]

Su-35 at the factory asks in surprise: "And who then designed me and now mass-produces ??"

[Uncle lee]

Quote: hrych

freak he

I see it ! And ours is more beautiful and maneuverable and ... ours! But they adopted them .... It's a shame on me.

[Stas157]

Quote: hrych

What are you saying! Ah, on our same engines forty years ago. Cool. You look at the freak more closely, he is a stupid idiot.

I agree. Freak! The engine ... So what if it meets the criteria of the fifth generation? Test passed. Adopted. Well, let him be a freak. And our handsome how much to wait? The first flight was 8 years ago.

[Sharansky]

Quote: hrych

Ah, on our engines forty years ago

there are Chinese Xian_WS-15 engines of Chinese design

[svp67]

Quote: Uncle Lee

And China passed us in aviation!

Bypassed ????? No, while they fly on our engines, this did not happen ...
And this statement

In fact, the J-20 will become the main rival of the American F-22 and F-35 aircraft, while most of the characteristics of the Chinese aircraft are significantly superior to the US

Great doubt ... especially because of the front elevators.

[Sharansky]

The Xian WS-15 engine is purely Chinese. From development to production. 90s are long over.

[svp67]

Quote: Sharansky

The Xian WS-15 engine is purely Chinese. From development to production.

No one denies, that's just it is not on the series yet, there is the old tested AL-31F

[Sharansky]

yeah, solid photoshop

[Muvka]

Those. can't our Su-57 on relatively new engines be called the fifth generation, and can their J-20 on our older engines? Wow. And what are the characteristics of the Chinese AFAR? And what about his cruising supersonic, you know? Are you sure that by all characteristics, except invisibility, it belongs to the 5th generation?

[nod739]

maybe even avionics, .. the rest is unlikely

[Yarik]

He bypassed only the MIG-31, but no more

[Grandfather]

Quote: Yarik

He bypassed only the MIG-31, but no more

[kos2910]

Quote: Uncle Lee

And China passed us in aviation

This is where such a conclusion? Our engines. Who says he's better than the Su-35? The first flight in 2011. First shown in 2016, but in 2017 already adopted? We can assume that the Su-57 is also already in service.

[zivXP]

It is necessary for the Chinese to fly on something, that’s why they took it faster. We don’t have such a problem, we need to bring the development to mind.

[missuris]

Well, all the same, they did not name the number of planes, and they did not name the technical characteristics. all water without confirmed numbers.

[Gradus HuK]

Uncle Lee Today, 07:42 AM Well done Chinese!

[Pivot]

If only it were not like with Chinese cars, some characteristics are announced, but in reality it is not at all like that.

[Nashensky city]

The Chinese, of course, are cunning people, the East is still .... But the very fact of the statement, it is like a bomb. Right now, so much will pour on the heads of the Su-57 developers from an Internet

[Altona]

In fact, the J-20 will become the main rival of the American F-22 and F-35 aircraft, while most of the characteristics of the Chinese aircraft are significantly superior to the American figures, IA REGNUM reports.
------------------------------------
Can you also throw the goods to the market?

[Nashensky city]

What can I say ..... Well done, Th .... While our "sculpted" the wunderwaffle, their whales quickly dazzled

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Nashensky town

their whales quickly blinded

"Blind" is a very correct word. From what was (c)

[Nashensky city]

Quote: Golovan Jack

"Blind" is a very correct word. From what was (c)

But the Chinese keep almost everything a secret, and therefore you can only guess what he is capable of. And the data that is known is overstated in any way.

[Tartary]

"Chinese" --- Chinay and their real numbers about the actual number of their population are kept secret ...))) Well now ??))

[samoletil18]

And to the heap, they bought the Su-35s. Purely so, to provide a service to Russia.

[Nashensky city]

Quote: samoletil18

And to the heap, they bought the Su-35s. Purely so, to provide a service to Russia.

No, they need new engines, the WS-15 that they planned to install on it, of course if they did, left the AL-31FN

[EvilLion]

When engines are needed, then they buy their production technology, or the engines themselves, and not the aircraft on which they are installed.

[Nashensky city]

Quote: EvilLion

When engines are needed, then they buy their production technology, or the engines themselves, and not the aircraft on which they are installed.

Come on, who will sell them engines, especially technology ... They bought Su-35 in the amount of 24 pieces for what? Squadron to do one? A ridiculous amount. They need the AL-41F engines that are at 35x, because now the Russian AL-20FN is on the J-31 fighter. Maybe China was finally able to create a new generation of WS-15 engine, which it planned to install on a serial fighter. For several consecutive years, the Hunhuzes in bulk bought spare parts for the AL-31F engine, and in quantities exceeding repair needs. Probably, based on these elements, as well as previously obtained Russian engines, the whales tried to build a new power plant for the J-20

[EvilLion]

And what, remove 24 engines from 48 aircraft and put your aircraft on 24? Cunning plan, Th. What percentage do you have in the system, from Intel or AMD? Millions around the world, but something no one can copy them. Because such technologies are to be developed, dozens of green lard costs and millions of man-hours of work of personnel who can’t get from the street.

In general, AL-31F and AL-41F have almost nothing in common, they are even incompatible in geometric parameters, and this, by the way, is apparently the factor due to which AL-31F will live for a long time, at least for the same 34, so as not to bother with their alteration.

Nobody will sell technology to promising engines, or to unpromising ones either, but these are problems of China, either you can do it yourself, or you buy what you are ready to sell, which means you are always lagging behind. As for the AL-41F, the option for the Su-35 is no longer considered promising for us. Americans have products and more serious. So I don’t see the reasons why the Chinese could not sell hundreds of two finished products. But it’s even more profitable to sell ready-made planes, all the more so since it strangles the Chinese aircraft industry itself, and the desire to bullish on someone who takes parts for your weapons always decreases sharply.

[just exp]

they wanted spare engines for the dryers, 4 spare for the plane.

[EvilLion]

AND? Build not 24, but 72 aircraft, and without spare engines? And you can even put your own Chinese engines on a dozen of their prototypes, a low resource in this case is not a serious problem.

[just exp]

but everyone would go to new planes, some would go to the center to make the same but their own.

[Nashensky city]

The Chinese do not and will not engage in the rearrangement of the engines. AL-41-F is no longer promising, it is already flying, if anything, and the prospect is now "product 30". Nobody is selling technology to the whales, and this is not a bad dream for the regulars of this site, and for everyone who is even a little interested in the military-industrial complex. Let them hang around as they want, though they have been trampling for 50 years, but sooner or later they will move off the ground, and selling even finished goods, without the transfer of technology, is still not advisable, so even selling 24 35x is more a PR move, or a curtsy from the side China. Maybe really, as Vojaka said earlier in this thread, to compare what they did with our developments. And they will not bull because their entire fighter aircraft flies on our engines ...

[voyaka uh]

".. They bought Su-35 in the amount of 24 pieces for what?" ////

I think to compare with my developments on flight data, engine thrust, etc. Conduct training fights with your own. Not for adoption at home.

[EvilLion]

There is an opinion that they need to fly to the conflict islands from the mainland, and J-11 somehow doesn’t have much of it.

[K-612-O]

The engine cannot be copied because it is not possible to copy the technology for the production of materials. You can copy the design, but the engine will not have the same characteristics and resource. On their own engines, they can not bring a resource to 300 hours. A crazy engine technology will not sell any engine technology.

[Nashensky city]

As i said before

Quote: K-612-O

Nobody is selling technology whales and this is a bad dream

Quote: K-612-O

You can copy the design, but the engine will not have the same characteristics and resource. On their own engines, they can not bring the resource to 300 hours

That is why they trample on the spot. God forbid to be born ...

[Kurare]

Quote: Nashensky town

That is why they trample on the spot. God forbid to be born ...

The development of a turbine blade by the method of single crystallization cost the Soviet Union, according to some estimates, about the same as the lunar program. This is without taking into account the giants of thought in metallurgy, I am not afraid to say so pompously!

Since then, a lot of water has flowed, and technology has also gone further. So, in order for the Chinese to really "be born", more than a few tens of billions of cabbage will be required!

[Sharansky]

Quote: Nashensky town

WS-15, which they planned to install on it, unless of course it was made, left AL-31FN

It is made using the technology of R-79, which was put on the Yak-141. Very powerful engine.

[Nashensky city]

Quote: Sharansky

It is made using the technology of R-79, which was put on the Yak-141. Very powerful engine.

Maybe I'm wrong, but there is no evidence that he is ready

[Sharansky]

There is data and there is a photo from the assembly line. I brought a couple of photos above

[Nashensky city]

Prototype or serial?

[Sharansky]

Mass production.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Nashensky town

Nashensky city Today, 11:25 ↑
Quote: Sharansky
It is made using the technology of R-79, which was put on the Yak-141. Very powerful engine.

Maybe I'm wrong, but there is no evidence that he is ready

In August 1996, Russia signed the act of transferring the engine to the Chinese side, and also provided a complete set of drawings and technical documentation (the engine was transferred without a nozzle with a controlled thrust vector). But later, in 1998, when the Asian financial crisis caused economic difficulties in Russia, China managed to get the nozzle of the R-79-300V engine with its technology.

[K-612-O]

Only the resource is VERY small!

[Sharansky]

and what resource?

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Sharansky

0
Sharansky Today, 12:52 ↑
and what resource?

Work on the engine was discontinued due to the cessation of funding. A dozen or so small engines were produced. The resource, most likely, is not even very large.

[Sharansky]

What are you talking about, dear?

[EvilLion]

Yes, the development of the 80's is very promising ...

[Sharansky]

AL-41F is also a development of the 80s, like the F-119. So what?

[samoletil18]

Here, most likely, there was a serious stratification in the preparation of the flight crew. The bulk is well and satisfactorily prepared, while the smaller portion is excellent. Here m / b various options, from checking the quality of training on airplanes with the best quality indicators, to creating a reliable drupes, both on aircraft of own production, and safety net in the form of parts on Russian aircraft. Moreover, after trying the Su-35s, the Chinese may ask to put the latest modifications of the Su-30, as an alternative and cheaper option. Moreover, the latter is interesting as a double and a wider range of strike capabilities, and radars with avionics, for example, the Chinese can replace with their own (theoretically), having done what they need from the plane. Just the idea of ​​the Su-30 was suggested by the presence of PGO in the J-20.

[Altona]

Quote: Uncle Lee

There are no words! Some pee, pee, pee, pee, pee, pee! And China passed us in aviation!

----------------------------------
Still not bypassed, do not worry. The engines on it are still Russian.

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: Altona

The engines on it are still Russian

And for a long time there will be Russian ones. These are not rivets on the pattern, here thinkthere is a lot of what is necessary

[alexhol]

Of course, purely even outwardly he is not impressive, knowing, but ... The first Chinese cars were also so-so. The road will be overcome by a walker

[polev66]

and now Chinese cars are already not so so? the fact that they can be attractive in the face does not mean that the quality is either .... I saw the warranty geely - the basins are stronger

[Mar.Tirah]

Once we also promised to catch up with everyone, and overtake. We don’t need to race for quantity, so far no one is threatening. Although you can’t stand either. Well, and unfortunately do not forget about the economies of Russia and China. This is heaven and earth. We Abramovich’s yachts are more important.

[EvilLion]

The USSR, with its endless resources to technical parity in aviation with the USA represented by the MiG-31 and Su-27, followed the WWII years of 40.

So good luck to the slanting non-brothers forever, given that they had the opportunity to build dozens of years, thousands of aircraft, and in the process learn something, was not.

[EvilLion]

Even I did not understand, I kind of answered the comments above.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: EvilLion

EvilLion Today, 08:46 ↑
The USSR, with its endless resources to technical parity in aviation with the USA represented by the MiG-31 and Su-27, followed the WWII years of 40.

So good luck to the slanting non-brothers forever, given that they had the opportunity to build dozens of years, thousands of aircraft, and in the process learn something, was not.

For example, engines for the MiG-25 initially had a life of 150 hours.

[YUG64]

What side are Abramovich’s yachts? If the States had not transferred hundreds of factories to China, would there be a “Chinese miracle”? But Russia is only spoiled, in all possible ways. The smart ones see and understand this difference, for everyone else - to explain for a long time, and to no avail ...

[Stas157]

Quote: YUG64

Abramovich’s yachts which side?

And you do not associate, the fact that if the number of yachts of Abramovich and Usmanov were less, and 1 trillion dollars were not withdrawn to the west, offshore, could Russia have more ships and planes?

[YUG64]

Do you know that, unfortunately, we have not had socialism for a long time, and that politics, including domestic politics, is always the art of the possible?

[Stas157]

Quote: YUG64

Do you know that, unfortunately, we have not had socialism for a long time, and that politics, including domestic politics, is always the art of the possible?

How can your art policy of the possible justify the criminal privatization, as a result of which, overnight, simple hucksters became dollar billionaires? But hiding money in offshore tax evasion, nepotism and corruption, the merging of officials and oligarchs? All this can be justified by the fact that we have capitalism?
But, all this reduces the economic and financial opportunities for our country to maintain a modern army, and to purchase modern aircraft and ships.

[YUG64]

Quote: Stas157

How can your art policy of the possible justify the criminal privatization, as a result of which, overnight, simple hucksters became dollar billionaires? But hiding money in offshore tax evasion, nepotism and corruption, the merging of officials and oligarchs? All this can be justified by the fact that we have capitalism?

This is not my policy, and I do not justify anything. I just understand that releasing gin from a bottle is much easier than driving it back. Such are the realities, unfortunately.

[hrych]

Explicitly pretend in form of a glider with inclined vertical stabilizers to be stealthy and make giant duckbill plumage, which will obviously add ESR. Copy, copy and copy. In short: If you put Nikanor Ivanovich’s lips to Ivan Kuzmich’s nose and take some swagger like Baltazar Baltazarych’s ...

[Sharansky]

You probably know how to heal using a photo no worse than measuring ESR?

[hrych]

Quote: Sharansky

how to measure ESR?

And you look at their sizes and this will be enough, there is a direct correlation. And the fact that they are gigantic not from a good life, an uncontrollable burda turned out, this is what compensates. The Chinese have one problem, they want to jump over several classes of the school, it can take a ride with a household, but it does not roll on top of progress. So far, China can independently produce Mig-21-level planes, and then it is necessary to understand, and then they immediately swung to the 5th generation and your Chinese optimism will not help here.

[voyaka uh]

China quickly goes around Russia in the aircraft industry (as in everything else). Do you like it or not. They create a complete line of civilian airliners and military aircraft.
I don’t like it because they will quickly start selling their 5 generation to their allies - Pakistan, for example. And he sent the Arabs.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: voyaka uh

I don’t like it because they will quickly start selling their 5 generation to their allies - Pakistan, for example. And he sent the Arabs.

I want to draw attention to one nuance, part of the nomenclature of the latest weapons of the PRC, "oddly enough" does not sell to our enemies, although it could.
And this is explained simply (like the Chinese technological breakthrough in military products). Due to the fact that the United States turned out of our skin to prevent us from selling high-tech weapons to the Chinese, ours began to sell technology and developments.
Yet on the surface:

[hrych]

Quote: voyaka uh

China quickly goes around Russia in the aircraft industry (as in everything else). Do you like it or not.

It's all a blizzard, whether you like it or not. And who told you that China is a threat to the Russian Federation, carefully look at the map and consider the distance. The expansion of China began in the direction of BV and the Indian Ocean. The Russian Federation is too tough not only the PRC, but also the USA because of technical superiority in nuclear technologies and ICBMs, whether you like it or not. Russia already borders on Israel, whether you like it or not. And the PRC fleet will soon be in Eilat, whether you like it or not, for Djibouti already has a Chinese base. They like to scare us with the Chinese threat, but the Russian Federation is invincible, whether you like it or not, but now you have to stock up on diapers. Does China have something close to the Tu-160? Is there something like Tu22M3 in China? Is there something like the Mig-31 in China? That's when it will be, then reckon nonsense about a detour in the aircraft industry when they will not put our forty-year-old engines on their super-duper engines, but something their own, then we'll talk.

[Sharansky]

Quote: hrych

And you look at their sizes and this will be enough, there is a direct correlation.

Well, nonsense. SU-27 and PAK-FA have approximately the same dimensions, and J-20.
Here you have it all in the picture. By your logic, compared to the F-35, everyone nervously smokes on the sidelines.
What do you say now?

[hrych]

You're talking about Thomas, I'm talking about Yerema. I’m not talking about the size of cars, but about the size of the rudders and stabilizers that give EPR. If you take normal cars like T-50 and F-22, there are no protruding rudders in front of the duck according to the pattern, especially GIANT ones. And ours in general ... I will not prompt, guess for yourself what you did.

[Herculesic]

And they have already made a plane of the 6th generation, for "he performs the Pugochev cobra" !!! The Chinese are frankly lying, there’s no fifth generation here, and even on our fourth generation engines this pepelats moves! !!

[mlad]

I don’t believe that it surpasses even the Su 35, otherwise they wouldn’t buy it, but the electronics may be good, but the Chinese also have a lot of Rogozin claiming poor peers

[Alexey-74]

Something vague doubts torment me ...... but is it pulling on a 5th generation fighter? We know Chinese technology and deeply doubt that China is ahead of us in military technology .... but you can declare anything .......

[Aleksandr21]

Quote: Alexey-74

Something vague doubts torment me ...... but is it pulling on a 5th generation fighter? We know Chinese technology and deeply doubt that China is ahead of us in military technology .... but you can declare anything .......

Have you compared the military budget of China and Russia for a long time? At least in the last couple of years, take an interest in this question. They invest a lot of money in science and the development of new technologies in the military sphere, and military equipment is much cheaper (than in the USA, for example). Therefore, the gap between our defense industry and the Chinese will only narrow ....

[NEXUS]

Quote: Alexey-74

But is he pulling on a 5th generation fighter?

It is enough to look at the engine of this "competitor of the pangolin" and everything will become clear ...

[eduard.kortik-101068]

AS ONE CHINESE SAID, WE WILL TAKE YOU NOT QUALITY AND QUANTITY. ROCKET DOES NOT ENOUGH TO DESTROY EVERYTHING !!!!!

[EvilLion]

The issue of "shortage to destroy everyone" was resolved with the advent of the machine gun. As the Chinese were shown on the CER, bending them at a power ratio of 1: 7.

[K-612-O]

There were Japanese people.

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: K-612-O

0
K-612-O Today, 11:39 ↑
There were Japanese people.

When our troops entered the CER, the Japanese were not there yet. It was our successful raid by small forces that inspired the Japanese to think that Manchuria could be taken easily, without large losses.

[igorka357]

Seriously? The millionth KPI division in the RPM is instantly annihilated with one PGRK launch!

[Vard]

The Chinese have not yet been able to solve the problem of engine life ... they are practically disposable ... Judging by the contours, they decided not to bother with stealth ... and right ...

[Zhelezyakin]

Quote: vovanpain

Quote: Observer2014

Who are you? the USSR

USSR Sergey Unfortunately no. Our T-50 made its first flight much earlier than the Chinese, I don’t remember when, but China is pushing into the series, and we just finished the 2nd stage dvigun.

Did you finish it? Where does infa come from?

[Engineer]

In fact, the J-20 will become the main rival of the American F-22 and F-35 aircraft, while most of the characteristics of the Chinese aircraft are significantly superior to the US

Blessed is he who believes

[samoletil18]

What to doubt right away? But what if! Do we need to start an arms race with the Americans? Suppose that China and the United States are pulling each other, and we will see. You look, we won’t do any unnecessary wunderwaffle, and, conversely, calmly move in the right direction.

[Engineer]

I am for the arms race of China and the United States with both hands and left foot. I believe that the Chinese will build 11 aircraft carriers as opposed to the American. I have no doubt that they rivet, i.e. stick a bunch of j-20. But the F-22 of the 80s is an unattainable level for China so far. China does not have a 4th generation combat aircraft comparable to ours or American. Therefore, a leap into the 5th generation is simply not possible.

[samoletil18]

To reach the fifth generation in the next hundred years or not to reach, for us in this context there is no difference.

[Mar.Tirah]

Quote: YUG64

What side are Abramovich’s yachts? If the States had not transferred hundreds of factories to China, would there be a “Chinese miracle”? But Russia is only spoiled, in all possible ways. The smart ones see and understand this difference, for everyone else - to explain for a long time, and to no avail ...

Let me explain. In China, a program has been created to support the Chinese economy by big businessmen and oligarchs, using various levers, from carrot to gingerbread, and even so they were much more patriotic in this respect than Russian ones.

[voyaka uh]

ABOUT! Stealth regiment arrived

[Voyager]

Warrior, this time you are not interested in the problem of the lack of RPP?)))

[voyaka uh]

Smear and coating. Like the Su-57.

[Topotun]

"In fact, the J-20 will become the main rival of the American F-22 and F-35 aircraft, while most of the characteristics of the Chinese aircraft are significantly superior to the US, IA REGNUM reports."
How much can you compare the performance of combat vehicles NEVER not participating in battle, but at least in exercises, but using air defense technology of possible competitors .... We would have trained at an air biathlon. It would immediately become clear who is worth what. And what would introduce a new discipline there - Breakthrough of the air defense zone ....

[NEXUS]

In fact, the J-20 will become the main rival of the American F-22 and F-35 aircraft, while most of the characteristics of the Chinese aircraft are significantly superior to the US

Oh ... the Chinese are catching horror no worse than mattresses ... but in fact, what indicators are we talking about? The engine on it is worse than that of the same pangolin, there are also questions on the arsenal, and we still need to see what the radar is.

Quote: Uncle Lee

And China passed us in aviation!

Sure? China buys the SU-35-e from us and their engine from them is much worse than ours, standing in the 35's.

[dvvv]

As always, they mantle the mantra about cruising supersonic without which it is no longer the 5th generation and nothing at all, but the Su-35, while the 4th with some advantages and with the PFAR radar, without that cruising supersound nevertheless tears everything stealth! People, you will determine the priorities! Maybe the Chinese managed everything well, maybe 90% of what is required and is it not so bad? Engines are already riveting their own and are about to refuse to buy Russian ones, they can do AFAR, they have mastered invisibility, they’ve advanced electronics in comparison with Russia and even with the USA. What they bought the Su-35 is a fact, and probably decided to inject new achievements into their designs and at an inexpensive price, at the same time to clarify the level of achievements of the likely enemy neighbor, so that if that ... well, I see. If this resin pulls 90% even if 80% of the required result is still a good step forward and it will be of undoubted benefit, and speed .. well, it will fly at a cruising speed of 1100, not 1300, so what? From this, all his possibilities fade? Moreover, this is not a fighter as I recall.

[ghby]

Quote: dvvv

Maybe the Chinese managed everything well, maybe 90% of what is required and is it not so bad? The engines are already riveting their own and are about to refuse to buy Russian ones,

And the resource of their engines? it's not geometrical parameters to copy, which is easy.

Quote: dvvv

What they bought the Su-35 is a fact, and probably decided to inject new achievements into their designs and at an inexpensive price, at the same time to clarify the level of achievements of the likely enemy neighbor, so that if that ... well, I see.

Copying external dimensions does not mean copying the product. We need a powerful foundation and developments in materials science. What, by disassembling the finished product, is by no means obtained.

[Snail N9]

Well, you know (here on the VO this "news" has already been written and discussed more than once) that our military is no longer interested in a 5th generation aircraft, like it is already, like, "outdated", they need a 6th generation aircraft , and even better than the 7th or 8th, and even smoothly transitioning to the "Death Star", but under one condition, at a price (cost) of not more than the 4th generation, and better than the 3rd or even 2nd generation.

[Runoway]

They lit up in a panic))))) "passed us, even China ahead"))))))
Well, China adopted the aircraft, well done, then what ?! What does this plane have to do with the 5th generation, what is its performance characteristics? Competitor F-22 and F-35? Don’t tell, the paper will tolerate everything and propaganda with advertising is needed. The Chinese aviation industry is developing, by trial and error, like everyone else, that's the j-20 another test, maybe even an error, time and combat use will show

[Aleksandr21]

Well, you can only congratulate the Chinese on the adoption of a 5th generation fighter in service. True, the picture is not clear with the engine, either they put our engine or the Chinese finished the WS-15, but it seems that their own ... i.e. is it sense to take the aircraft into service without its own engine? is logical? all the more so, the J-20 will sooner or later go for export + it needs to be supplied in sufficient quantities with its Air Force. But even if ours is standing there now, it will not last long, China spends a lot of money in the military sphere, and who knows, MB and some sort of WS-20 are already being developed ... (little info), stealth and electronics technologies should be on level. What rules the world? money. But China simply heaps them, they cannot buy everything that they can produce now, and then they will establish production in their own country.

[spirit]

Here Now, I think there’s not a frail fight with the states right now for the minds in the military-industrial complex. I think the priority number of man-hours and financing was allowed on aviation, and therefore the result is so fast and this is all against the background of a lack of cut inside)

[screw cutter]

I don’t know about you, but I don’t like a Chinese man outwardly, he is ugly. PAK FA is beautiful, but he is not Chinese. And as the great Soviet aircraft designer Anatoly Tupolev once said: “An ugly plane will not fly.” So, "Come, see."

[Gransasso]

Quote: screw cutter

I don’t know about you, but I don’t like a Chinese man outwardly, he is ugly. PAK FA is beautiful, but he is not Chinese. And as the great Soviet aircraft designer Anatoly Tupolev once said: “An ugly plane will not fly.” So, "Come, see."

Well, if you don’t like it ... then the Chinese will not fly ... definitely ..

[Grandfather]

Quote: Dead Day

Quote: Yarik

He bypassed only the MIG-31, but no more

what ???

[Tamek]

Well, of course, now the fifth-generation cheap fighters will appear on the market.
Guys, who knows, tell me the F-35 at what load can take off vertically?

[EvilLion]

2 bombs on 451 kg and 2, can 4 missiles have to master accurately.

[CrimeaOur]

Not to appear, the Chinese have big problems with avionics and very big problems with engines.

And the F-35 is a shameful mutant, the Americans tried to shove the inexplicable into one plane.

[Tamek]

Well this is the Chinese, they will drop the price and shove poor countries, like my Ukraine.
And f35b is a unique, not a shameful aircraft. Harier and the yak are resting.

[sauvage]

Some kind of freak turned out. Daddy Mig1.44, + mom F35 = j20

[gorgo]

Someone he ... ugly. How did someone say there? Only beautiful planes fly? ...

[AKsvlad047]

And we again become in the role of catching up! Immediately there is a lack of the leading role of the CPSU !!! And current managers can only clang languages ​​and rub money from the budget, privatize grandfather's achievements !!! 25 years we are going to the bright future of capitalism, but we can’t lift it like industry !!! Where are the advantages of vaunted capitalism ???? Shame gnaws and resentment for the country !!!

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: AKsvlad047

Where are the advantages of vaunted capitalism ???? Shame gnaws and resentment for the country !!!

Bad troll. Fat

[AKsvlad047]

And whom should I troll ??? I say what I think !!! And, what do you think I'm wrong?

[K-50]

The campaign took off a couple of times from the ground the plane passed all flight tests.
Thank God that I do not buy Chinese products.

[Sharansky]

probably a computer and a phone made in Russia?

[K-50]

Quote: Sharansky

probably a computer and a phone made in Russia?

Malaysia Computer and Nokia
He deliberately looked at the manufacturer so as not to buy Chinese. I do not trust somehow.

[Mentat]

Quote: Uncle Lee

There are no words! Some pee, pee, pee, pee, pee, pee! And China passed us in aviation!

And it would be better if there were no messages, since there are no words. China has not beaten anyone in aviation.

[Music]

It looks decent. And how is it in reality, who knows .... Engines for an hour are not from the Su-35?

[Sharansky]

no, there is Xian WS-15. Nothing to do with AL-41

[Lena Petrova]

Quote: Mar. Tira

Abramovich’s yachts are more important to us.

Think Chinese oligarchs are more modest?

[razved]

Once the Chinese quickly conducted all the tests ...

[Snail N9]

So at them MO pays on time. They thought that they needed such a “thing” and paid for the series without delay. This is our MO "does not moo and does not calve" - ​​they need it, then they don’t need it, then it would be better, and generally cheaper ..., and even better, it would be completely "free" .. .

[CrimeaOur]

Quote: Uncle Lee

There are no words! Some pee, pee, pee, pee, pee, pee! And China passed us in aviation!

What did it get around? What kind of nonsense? China has been buying engines for fighters for 20 (twenty) years.

[CrimeaOur]

This is largely a marketing move, advertising. The Chinese will continue to bring their car for many years before it "stands on the wing." At the moment, there are only two fifth-generation fighters in the world - our “Sucechka” and the American F-22.
By the way, in the summer, a curious little article was published in the National Interest that compares our Su-57 and the American F-22. In this article, former US Air Force lieutenant general Dave Deptula examines the strengths and weaknesses of each aircraft. Basically, he scolds both cars there, with the F-22 more. But that is not the point. Speaking of the fifth generation, he does not even mention the F-35! What is this talking about? This suggests that even Americans understand how shameful squalor their thirty-fifth turned out to be.

[Sharansky]

Quote: CrimeaOur

At the moment, there are only two fifth-generation fighters in the world - our “Sucechka” and the American F-22.

Rather, it is F-22 and F-35. Dry is still far from the series.

Quote: CrimeaOur

Speaking of the fifth generation, he does not even mention the F-35! What is this talking about?

Oh yeah. Quoting the iksperds from National interest says a lot. In a decent society, this is considered bad form.

[igorka357]

In principle, your cries of the whole Soviet, or Russian, too, speaks volumes!

[Michael newage]

J-20 is an iron with unclear what engines and avionics. The combat value is doubtful. But, what they did and accepted was an offset. This is the main reason for these movements. Type China is the second country to supply the "five" to the Air Force. Great Aviation Power . The truth did not even make a competitor but capable fours. But the main thing is to start, and so they started, even though they themselves blinded something ... Not well, but it looks futuristic. For diligence and speed 5, for the result 3- .

[Junior Private]

Colleagues, the only truth is written in the article that the J-20 will compete with the F-35. Both are the same irons.

[Voyager]

And Us Rat, in the official brochure, I have a PDF, I can somehow send it.
P&W also won't confirm the dry weight of the F135, but a source commenting on an aviation blog cites Warren Boley, President of Pratt & Whitney Military Engines, as saying the F135 weighs 1,500lb (680kg) more than the F119. This would put the F135's dry weight at around 5,400lb (2,450kg). However, the F135 may have a higher thrust-to-weight ratio than the F119 (the F119's overall pressure ratio is 26: 1 compared with the F135's 28: 1) and so the 5,400lb figure might be high.

+ is discussed on this resource, and not only here. Most likely 1700 is a number excluding some nodes. http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&
t = 25691

[And Us Rat]

Quote: Voyager

in the official brochure, I have a PDF in

Especially downloaded and checked the PDF on the official Pratt & Whitney page - in none engine weight not specified at allneither dry nor wet.
Take a screenshot of your PDF.

Quote: Voyager

Most likely 1700 is a number excluding some nodes

I understand where your 2,450kg comes from - the weight of the turbine for the model in GDP (F-35В), this is the weight of the engine with a reducer to the front fan, the front fan itself, side nozzles and nozzle rotation mechanisms.

But on F-35A and F-35С there is nothing of this, there is a "clean" engine weighing 1.7 tons.
So recount your "specific thrust" again.

[Got mit uns]

Believe the Chinese .... well, I don’t know.
Although ours refused to pack. Only 12 aircraft ....

[Michael newage]

Quote: tchoni

Quote: Michael Newage

The one who wrote this article understands the issue worse than me.

It is even more surprising that you got involved in this dispute)))) Accept the good advice of an old man - get yourself a girlfriend. This is a much better way out of the crisis of puberty than surfing the Internet and proving that you are right in a "nothing to argue" debate.

I did not get involved in this dispute, I answered your comment and wrote my opinion. And you, wise by the experience of an old man, were offended and asked me not to write nonsense . Here you are so wise and so stupid I am with my “puberty crisis” of 30 years . Well, who wrote the nonsense I already explained to you. Glad you don't argue . As for your advice, thank you. of course, but the personal life of a person is the personal life of a person, especially since it has nothing to do with it.

[ZVO]

Well, they wrote 100500 comments and most of that. that the Chinese cannot do anything ...

so here
I see the blatant illiteracy in the field of technology from the authors of such posts.
There is one pattern.
A technological revolutionary technological breakthrough occurs only there. where there are means of production that allow this breakthrough to be made.
Chinese. for 30 years of the complete openness of its cheap labor, cheap materials, it has concentrated in itself 70% of the production base of the whole world.
Everything is done there.
5-7 coordinate machines - made in China. And do not be seduced by the nameplate Italy. or Germany - the machine is made in China.
All electronics are made in China.
They simply have no chance not to rush forward from feudalism to technological effectiveness. For they have concentrated everything in themselves.
The simplest example.
An Englishman would never have built a steam engine, without an English technical school, in which there were means and technologies for the production of steam engines.
He was able to make a steam locomotive. just because. that there were steam engines around him and he just developed the idea further !!!
Generating and Working on a 7-coordinate machine - and already thinks 7-coordinate !!!
And not with a hammer and a hoe.
Accordingly, there will be a breakthrough and it is already on.
And he is already coming.
He goes in an avalanche.
Already communicating with Chinese electronic engineers. you understand that they are on another planet.
If earlier, about 20 years ago, communicating with the engineers of Intel and HP, I understood what was at stake, now. I only guess about the course of thoughts of the Chinese ...
After 5 years. China is really the main technology-driving country.
And moving to the whole world.

Again.
Who owns the technical means of production - that moves technology.

[Pavlovsky]

tchoni,
When there are not enough arguments, not very smart people turn to personalities and it seems that the age of wisdom does not give

[assa67]

Quote: Nashensky town

their whales quickly blinded

but blinded it! fast enough while we are swinging .... maybe this is because there are a lot of them?