Hatred of Russians towards Gorbachev in the West is considered a “mystery”

379
A review of the biography of Mikhail Gorbachev. The review is accompanied by a quote from a review of Gorbachev’s long-standing memoirs. It turns out that in the West they are perplexed by the hostility in Russia towards Gorbachev. After all, Mikhail Sergeevich led the planet away from the nuclear abyss, freed its people from fear and gave freedom to Eastern Europe!





Famous publicist, author of books on American foreign policy and CIA activities, William Blum in "The Counter Punch" spoke about the ongoing cold war, and cited the review of the new biography of Mikhail Gorbachev in the New York Times Book Review (September New York Times) as an example of misunderstanding by the West of Russia.

This review notes that Gorbachev "was not a hero for his people" because he was "the destroyer of his empire." The New York Times simply avoids saying anything positive about life in the Soviet Union and about socialism! Do observers believe that the Russian people were upset by the loss of Czechoslovakia or Hungary? Blum recalls that Gorbachev, who organized the “perestroika”, plunged his people into the abyss of collapse: living standards plummeted, problems with employment, medical care, education, and many other aspects of the “welfare state” began.

Moreover, the new review is accompanied by a quote from a review of Gorbachev’s own memoirs (1996). That review said: “In the West, it is considered mysticism that Mikhail Gorbachev is hated and ridiculed in his own country. This is the man who took the world a few steps back from the nuclear abyss and freed his compatriots from suffocating fear, a man who ended the bloody foreign adventures, freeing Eastern Europe ... But one can hardly imagine a more complete renunciation of his own people. His attempt at a political return in June attracted the attention of less than one percent of the vote. ”

Thus, Gorbachev’s unpopularity among his people is simply viewed by observers as “secret”, the content of which is not amenable to analysis, and therefore is defined as something mystical. We note that experts and journalists in the West often forget a simple fact: many people in Russia still consider the USSR to be a country of peace, progress, happy childhood and multiethnic fraternity. These same people accuse Gorbachev, who is largely focused on the United States, of betraying the interests of the Motherland and the collapse of the Union.

Gorbachev himself does not believe that he played a role in the collapse of the USSR.

“The collapse of the Soviet Union was perpetrated, guided by personal ambitions and a thirst for power, by the participants of the Belovezhsk agreements. This is above all the then leadership of Russia, ”he said in recent interview. And again: “I categorically affirm that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not occur as a result of the development of perestroika in the country. It would be big to think so historical a mistake. "

Apparently, all the Russians, who did not give Gorbachev even one percent in due time, made a big mistake.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
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379 comments
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  1. +83
    28 September 2017 08: 48
    in the West, puzzled by the hostility in Russia to Gorbachev.
    - It's still put it mildly! Hatred - this is closer to the truth!
    1. +41
      28 September 2017 08: 50
      Mikhail Sergeyevich took the planet away from the nuclear abyss, freed his people from fear and gave freedom to Eastern Europe!
      This could have been done without destroying and humiliating the country.
      1. +44
        28 September 2017 08: 53
        Gorbachev's hatred is a mystery! And to America, a glaring misunderstanding?
        1. +48
          28 September 2017 09: 03
          However, despite the hatred and contempt of the ordinary people of Russia for Gorbach, the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian land with great honors: under the guards of the military guard, with elegant commemoration - and all at the national expense!
          And then the time will come when the people will dig out the traitor Gorbachev from Russian soil and let his ashes go into the wind. He deserves it from the people!
          1. +24
            28 September 2017 09: 07
            Tatyana, you, as always in the Top Ten ...
            1. +13
              28 September 2017 09: 39
              Good afternoon, Sasha! Honestly, you pamper me! I’m right with you fellow in the flowers! So I feel their delicate aroma! And where did you find such BEAUTY with my name from! Fantastic!

              You know, I personally saw Gorbachev close - a meter away from me - at an exhibition dedicated to some anniversary (I think 10 years) of the death of Raisa Maximovna Gorbacheva. He struck me with his appearance. Tall, in good physical shape, in a black immaculate suit and snow-white shirt. And on a black suit not a single dandruff! Gorbachev’s speech itself and its manner of holding on — the demagogue and artist, were unsurpassed!
              The people, of course, gathered at the exhibition not only because of the memory of R.M. Gorbachev, but some citizens also wanted to culturally ask Gorbachev himself explicitly unpleasant questions. So, Gorbachev did not have time to finish his speech and the people did not have time to ask at least one question, when Misha immediately left the room, closing the door behind him, and two strong men in civilian fenced the doors of the public. For some, their jaws fell off in surprise. The people just gasped!
              By the way, the audience was allowed to go on paid tickets, and even then not everyone. They asked at the entrance how a person relates to Gorbachev. If loyal, then missed. I went from the scientific community.
              1. +3
                28 September 2017 09: 48
                Quote: Tatiana
                in a black immaculate suit and snow-white shirt

                The light turns on and I go out in a snow-white suit ... Almost everyone knows the rest.
                1. +11
                  28 September 2017 12: 30
                  Quote: Tatiana
                  authorities will bury Mishka in Russian soil

                  There must be a place to go spit
              2. +2
                28 September 2017 09: 51
                Apparently, all the Russians who did not give Gorbachev even one percent at one time were very mistaken ...
                - Amnuel, Sytin, Kasparov, Yabloko crowd and other evil spirits could not be mistaken ...
              3. +3
                28 September 2017 10: 03
                And on a black suit not a single dandruff!

                lol laughing laughing
                And the hair is intellectually styled and out of it with a brilliant mind and rushing!
              4. +4
                28 September 2017 10: 14
                Quote: Tatiana
                when Misha immediately left the room, closing the door behind him, and two strong men in civilian fenced the doors of the public. For some, their jaws fell off in surprise. The people just gasped!

                So all the same, "the cat knows whose meat has eaten" ..
                1. +3
                  28 September 2017 23: 20
                  mat-vey
                  So all the same, "the cat knows whose meat has eaten" ..
                  That's all salt, Matvey, that Gorbachev knows exactly how “a cat whose meat she ate”, only in his speeches he pretends to be innocently naive without shame and conscience!
                  One word - "Tagged"!
              5. +1
                28 September 2017 21: 52
                Tanechka, the whole vast country, until the end of your life, would have bombarded you with flowers every day IF YOU HAVE BEEN A METER PUSHED FROM IT ON THE LIFTING HOOK!
                1. +1
                  28 September 2017 23: 45
                  Honestly, when I stood so close to Gorbachev, I had a fear that someone from the audience would suddenly shoot him, and I would also be fired upon. But for some reason I didn’t even budge.
                  I looked around the audience. In the hall there were mostly only women. There were very few men. Three of the men were apparently security guards. During the performance, two of them stood in the hall on either side of the doors, and when Gorbachev came out they immediately “closed ranks”, blocking with their bodies the door to the exit for visitors. The third, in my opinion, stood very close to Gorbachev next to me.
                  No, nobody was going to kill Gorbachev. No wonder the tickets were distributed accountable to organizations. Yes, and many years have passed by then - and "a lot of water has flowed."
              6. 0
                29 September 2017 10: 49
                Well, where did the dandruff come from on his bald skull? He has it inside his skull.
          2. +5
            28 September 2017 09: 12
            the Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian soil with great honors: under the guards of a military guard, with smart commemoration - and all at the national expense!


            Not at first the funeral service in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior. laughing and then everything else.
            1. +19
              28 September 2017 10: 43
              Not at first the funeral service in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior.
              have to wait a long time
          3. +20
            28 September 2017 09: 15
            Quote: Tatiana
            And then the time will come when the people will dig out the traitor Gorbachev from Russian soil and let his ashes go into the wind. He deserves it from the people!

            at least the monument to another traitor constantly has to be washed
            1. AUL
              +9
              28 September 2017 10: 40
              There was Stalin - and everyone applauded him.
              Khrushchev came, crap Stalin, and everyone applauded him.
              Brezhnev came, crap Khrushchev, and everyone applauded him.
              Gorbachev came, crap Brezhnev, and everyone applauded him.
              Yeltsin came, crap Gorbachev, and everyone applauded him.
              Putin came, crap Yeltsin, and everyone applauded him.
              X will come and the story will repeat. And why would she change?
              So we don’t have enough paint for all the monuments!
              1. +16
                28 September 2017 11: 01
                Quote from AUL
                Putin came, crap Yeltsin, and everyone applauded him.

                When is this? Are you talking about the Yeltsin Center?
              2. +16
                28 September 2017 11: 13
                Putin came, crap Yeltsin, and everyone applauded him.
                Are you confusing anything? Can I link to Putin’s words about Yeltsin in a negative way?
                Before you blurt out your tongue you would become familiar with the subject:
                1. AUL
                  +4
                  28 September 2017 11: 25
                  Have you ever heard of corporate solidarity? “Is it like that, the tsar is a dog ?!” (Ivan Vasilievich changes his profession) And you really think that without tacit support “from above” such an attitude of society towards EBN (by the way, it’s quite well-deserved) would last long? Would have smoothed, washed, jammed ... And so - like, now compare yourself, how it was all bad, and how it all got hurt!
                  Before you blurt out your tongue you would become familiar with the subject:

                  And then I am familiar with the subject. I’ve been living for a long time, I saw a lot of these objects, and I think with my own head, and not with quotes from the durovisor.
              3. +8
                28 September 2017 13: 35
                Quote from AUL
                Putin came, crap Yeltsin, and everyone applauded him.



                Ahem ... Let me ask: when did Putin do this ??? request No.
              4. +2
                29 September 2017 10: 51
                Aul he and in Africa aul.
            2. +14
              28 September 2017 12: 17
              The monument is blue and should be blue. No need to launder.
            3. +6
              28 September 2017 13: 22
              Quote: enot73
              Quote: Tatiana
              And then the time will come when the people will dig out the traitor Gorbachev from Russian soil and let his ashes go into the wind. He deserves it from the people!

              at least the monument to another traitor constantly has to be washed


              come on when people! but when the birds !!! I didn’t believe it, but several sources confirm -

              Last weekend, the Yeltsin Center was attacked by crows. For reasons that are still unclear, the birds went on to bombard the building, throwing stones from a flight altitude onto the glass roof of the atrium and museum of the first president of Russia. As a result of the aggression, several glasses are now broken in the presidential center. The head of the press service of the Yeltsin Center, Elena Volkova, told 66.RU that so far the experts have not yet calculated the amount of damage. The matter is complicated by the fact that the glass of the atrium and the museum have a curved shape, and not every company is ready to make them. The Yeltsin Center promises that in any case, all repairs will be completed before the end of this week, and the process itself will not affect visitors.

              Source: http://politikus.ru/v-rossii/99623-vorony-zabrosa
              li-kamnyami-elcin-centr.html
              Politikus.ru
            4. +2
              29 September 2017 11: 13
              It is necessary at Yeltsin’s center to arrange a rampage as spontaneous markets in 90. And bring there what is left of 90. Plus all sorts of statements, who earned how much or who died of what died
          4. +9
            28 September 2017 09: 18
            Yes, and they’ll also build a Gorbachev center. There’s a lot to spit! I’d add. An incomprehensible manner for ordinary citizens to hold power to exalt the characters who brought the country to a pen. Example-EBN, Sakharov ... Makarevich will die and he will erect a “miraculous monument” to him. Ugh on them.
            Quote: Tatiana
            However, despite the hatred and contempt of the ordinary people of Russia for Gorbach, the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian land with great honors: under the guards of the military guard, with elegant commemoration - and all at the national expense!
            And then the time will come when the people will dig out the traitor Gorbachev from Russian soil and let his ashes go into the wind. He deserves it from the people!
            1. 0
              28 September 2017 15: 21
              K Sakharov what claims?
              1. +17
                28 September 2017 15: 27
                Quote: Alex Justice
                K Sakharov what claims?

                Brain disabled person after 1975 and exposure to Russophobian radiation by Bonner.
                Sakharov will often swear by the name of morality and appeal to the commandment: "Thou shalt not kill." But he will write in 1973 a welcome letter to General Pinochet, calling the coup and execution he committed the beginning of an era of happiness and prosperity in Chile. The academician always believed that people have the right to life, freedom and happiness.
                His human rights followers do not like to remember this. Just as they deny in every possible way, at the end of the 70s, he wrote a letter to the US President urging to inflict — in order to enforce respect for “human rights” in the USSR — a preventive, awesome nuclear strike.
                In 1979, he will publish a letter condemning the introduction of Soviet troops into Afghanistan on the pages of leading Western publications. Prior to that, he had not published such letters condemning the American war in Vietnam or the Middle East wars of Israel. And he will not condemn either the war of England and Argentina over the Falkland Islands, or the American invasion of Granada or Panama.

                As a true intellectual and humanist, he knew how to condemn only his country. Obviously, believing that the condemnation of other countries is the business of their intellectuals and humanists.
                1. +6
                  28 September 2017 20: 22
                  Chile under General Pinochet really rose from the mud, both economic and liberal.
          5. +23
            28 September 2017 09: 26
            Quote: Tatiana
            However, despite the hatred and contempt of the ordinary people of Russia for Gorbach,

            This is contempt and hatred among the peoples of all 15 republics not only for Gorbachev, but also for EBN. Burn these geeks in hell for what they have done with a great country.
            RE-CHANGE
            By moving the desks together for convenience,
            Two "educational and creative muses"
            Laid out a colorful card
            Former Soviet Union.
            Youth strives for innovation,
            And giving birth to new habits,
            Full of geek ideas
            Cuts a card with a brisk apprentice.
            Everything flies at the speed limit
            Living like an old man is no reason today!
            Each republic separately
            With jokes glued to the cardboard.
            Proud, great power
            That got stronger hundreds of years in a row
            Mercilessly cut the scissors
            And - goodbye to greatness and glory!
            From past discussions and tribulations
            There wasn’t even a semblance:
            There will be a new allowance at school -
            "Maps of foreign states."
            And, doing a terrible "work",
            Since the time of Khmelnitsky for the first time
            Scissors
            And run, ruthlessly run
            Between Ukraine and Russia.
            A sunset burst out from behind a cloud
            It became a bright pink wall.
            And from the wall of the classics look:
            Gogol, Pushkin. Chekhov and Shevchenko.
            The ray disappeared and reappeared.
            The crimson began to pour light.
            It suddenly seemed like blood
            Dropped from the card to the floor ...
            Thunderstorms rumble somewhere
            The wind rustles chilly in the branches
            And shine in the eyes of the classics
            Quietly wrapped tears ...
            17 February 1992 city
            Moscow
            Edward Asadov.
          6. +5
            28 September 2017 09: 34
            However, despite the hatred and contempt of the ordinary people of Russia for Gorbach, the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian land with great honors: under the guards of the military guard, with elegant commemoration - and all at the national expense!

            Put me on this celebration nachkar and let me staff it. Volley will be on the participants of the ceremony.
          7. +21
            28 September 2017 09: 52
            Who would doubt that
            all in orders and medals from the grateful
            1. +4
              28 September 2017 12: 48
              And it looks like he still hasn’t understood what he’s done ... But does he accidentally have no orders for being unlearned?
          8. +4
            28 September 2017 10: 25
            I’m afraid the people will go and dump buckets of dung on the grave of the spotted ... and no government can stop it ... rather, the bear will die in Europe and there it will be buried like a faithful dog away from sin
          9. +5
            28 September 2017 10: 49
            Quote: Tatiana
            And then the time will come when the people will dig out the traitor Gorbachev from Russian soil and let his ashes go into the wind. He deserves it from the people!

            Danuna ... The people forget their executioners, as they forgot and offered to the saints of bloody Nicholas II. And this ... In comparison with EBN, this uncle is a European god dandelion. It was not with him that the public property and the assets of the USSR and the CPSU were taken. He did not cast the unsinkable corps of oligarchs. He did not organize the adoption of an externally imposed constitution with very “correct” concepts of justice and welfare for all (who succeeded). Something I do not see running around the grave of EBN, and no one comes to the Yekaterinburg house in memory of EBN creativity on a tank.
            And Gorbachev is the most common henpecked ... Third ... Raikin husband ...
            1. +5
              28 September 2017 18: 45
              Quote: Esoteric
              . The people forgets their executioners, as they forgot and offered to the saints of the bloody Nicholas II.

              Do not confuse members of the Gundyaevskaya organized criminal group with the people.
            2. 0
              22 March 2018 13: 41
              Nicholas the Bloody. Is that why so? The organizers did not think that, due to souvenirs, the people would pass each other during the coronation. And why not a bloody Stalin? Not repression, not yet something. His funeral alone was so bloody that no Nikolai could ever dream of!
          10. +5
            28 September 2017 11: 24
            good day, interestingly, but extras for this event will be collected on a voluntary basis?))
          11. +5
            28 September 2017 13: 29
            Quote: Tatiana
            the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian soil with great honors: under the guards of the military guard, with elegant commemoration


            According to the status of a knight of the highest order of the country - Andrei the First-Called, who had given him DAM at the time ... For services ... I probably didn’t have time to hand over the Hero of Russia - it was time to give the chair, guarded to the owner, to give ...
          12. +4
            28 September 2017 14: 00
            Quote: Tatiana
            the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian soil with great honors: under the guards of the military guard, with smart commemoration - and all at the national expense!

            And now it is also supported by public money.
          13. +2
            28 September 2017 15: 41
            Quote: Tatiana
            despite the hatred and contempt of the ordinary people of Russia for Gorbach, the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian soil with great honors: under the guards of the military guard, with gorgeous commemoration

            ... I won’t be surprised if, after his death, he is also considered a saint, in company with Nicholas II. And as long as the Russian elite will have such an attitude to the history of the country: who ruined the country - a hero, who made a great country - a crazy patient.
          14. 0
            29 September 2017 12: 51
            "And then the time will surely come when the people of Gorbachev will be picked out of Russian soil and put to dust. He deserves it from the people!"
            You first pick out Lenin, and then Gorbochevs, Yeltsins, Putin ...
            1. 0
              3 October 2017 13: 14
              And first you learn the story, read it and “Spark” from under your head, remove it when you go to bed ..
      2. +4
        28 September 2017 08: 58
        Quote: Wend
        This could have been done without destroying and humiliating the country.

        Well, it’s necessary to think already .. And Raisa Maksimovna insisted - “to begin and to kill” ..
      3. +6
        28 September 2017 10: 35
        The collapse of the Soviet Union was carried out, guided by personal ambitions and a thirst for power, the participants of the Bialowieza Agreements. This is primarily the then leadership of Russia, ”he said in a recent interview. And again: “I categorically affirm that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not occur as a result of the development of perestroika in the country. To think so would be a major historical mistake. ”

        And you were obliged to shoot them and would remain a hero in the people's memory.
        1. +4
          28 September 2017 15: 55
          Quote: INVESTOR
          And you were obliged to shoot them and would remain a hero in the people's memory.

          What for ? Look, Stalin shot such people and now they are pouring mud on him and that he was a psychopath, and suffered from a clouding of his mind and was generally a fierce bloodsucker. It’s easier while your country is falling apart sitting back and then getting medals for it.
          1. +1
            28 September 2017 20: 28
            Quote: SERGUS
            Quote: INVESTOR
            And you were obliged to shoot them and would remain a hero in the people's memory.

            What for ? Look, Stalin shot such people and now they are pouring mud on him and that he was a psychopath, and suffered from a clouding of his mind and was generally a fierce bloodsucker. It’s easier while your country is falling apart sitting back and then getting medals for it.


            This position is called betrayal.
            1. +2
              29 September 2017 10: 33
              Quote: INVESTOR
              This position is called betrayal.

              Yes, ordinary people then understand this, but only the elite then exposes us to such traitors as heroes-liberators. We laugh at Ukraine when their politicians say that the Soviet Union occupied and tormented them, and good Germany wanted to free them from this yoke. What about our politicians? We lost the Cold War, but the worse is that our Motherland was torn apart and it plunged into social house and the main culprits of this are Gorbachev and Yeltsin! And we are told that these are our heroes-liberators, and why then are our politicians better than Ukrainian politicians who are called the hero-liberator Bandera?
      4. +1
        28 September 2017 13: 07
        This is the man who took the world a few steps back from the nuclear abyss
        This man pushed the world a few steps forward to the nuclear abyss
    2. +5
      28 September 2017 08: 51
      And contempt ...
    3. +22
      28 September 2017 08: 53
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      in the West, puzzled by the hostility in Russia to Gorbachev.
      - It's still put it mildly! Hatred - this is closer to the truth!

      In order to understand this, it was necessary to live in the countries of the former USSR in the 80s and 90s. For those who have experienced this, the question “why” does not arise.
    4. +6
      28 September 2017 08: 57
      Hatred of Russians towards Gorbachev in the West is considered a “mystery”


      Yes, there’s no mystery here, if for example Obama, under the guise of democracy and perestroika, had collapsed, the United States would have loved the Americans for it, Obama.
    5. +17
      28 September 2017 08: 57
      His attempt at a political return in June attracted less than one percent of the vote. ”

      This was firstly in June 1996, during the election of his friend Yelkin.
      The hatred of Russians for Gorbachev in the West is considered a "mystery

      No riddles, wake up someday a resident of another country, then you will understand. negative
      1. +7
        28 September 2017 09: 21
        I would not consider Chernomyrdin to be included in this fucking cohort .. He had the same pearls, but he was the leader.
        Quote: 79807420129
        His attempt at a political return in June attracted less than one percent of the vote. ”

        This was firstly in June 1996, during the election of his friend Yelkin.
        The hatred of Russians for Gorbachev in the West is considered a "mystery

        No riddles, wake up someday a resident of another country, then you will understand. negative
        1. +4
          28 September 2017 10: 17
          Quote: 210ox
          I would not rank Chernomyrdin as one of this fucking cohort.

          same thief .. why did he push uranium there?
        2. +13
          28 September 2017 11: 03
          Quote: 210ox
          I wouldn’t rank Chernomyrdin as part of this fucking cohort .. He also had pearls,but he was the leader.

          Of course!!! The head of the clan ... black-hearted and black-hearted with bloody hands that determined the future of Russia's gas heritage ...
          Remember! All who stood in power in the nineties were venal clerks from the State Department. Only they are to blame for the fact that the once rich, self-sufficient country fell into a bent position. It was they who spread rot their people in hunger, poverty in the name of (what ???) their own emotion and self-love. What can you say against? Or are you now so strong that you can get by with your own resources?
          And now we live in expectation of someone's insight from above. Say he will see and reward. Yes, it’s you who are blind that you don’t see ahead of the most ordinary void. Emptiness spiritual, moral, which, like rust corrodes our society ...
          1. +2
            28 September 2017 20: 03
            And something in the 1991 year, there were no crowds of indignant people throughout the USSR when the Red Banner was lowered from the dome of the House of Soviets. Where were the people? First of all, the people betrayed their Power !!! And when the people betray their Fatherland, then the Troubles ensue ... So it was and will be so. And then the Poles come, then the fratricidal civil wars begin.
            P.S. God forbid everyone to think that with this comment I support the hunchback. It’s easy to deceive our people, but when they figure out lies, I don’t envy those liars!
            1. +2
              28 September 2017 21: 37
              Quote: Flexsus
              And something in 1991 was not visible crowds of indignant people throughout the USSR,

              excuse me how old was then?
              I remember very well when this happened and I remember HOW it was presented, they say that everything hasn’t changed anything well, they say that they just changed the name and really the first time the same passports didn’t change, the same money, and when they recovered, it’s late, the train left
              we are all to blame, but I repeat again, not in betrayal, but in naivety
      2. +8
        28 September 2017 09: 35
        in the lower right corner is missing the next figure after Yeltsin.
    6. +14
      28 September 2017 08: 59
      [quote = Uncle Lee] [quote] in the West are puzzled by the hostility in Russia to Gorbachev. After all, Mikhail Sergeyevich took the planet away from the nuclear abyss, freed its people from fear and gave freedom to Eastern Europe !! [/ quote]
      Traitor! But to the traitors of other feelings, except - hatred, contempt and aversion, can not be. And this su..a is still trying to give advice on how to behave and what Russia should do. Scum ... Such at all times, they didn’t even shoot them, a lot of honor, but they hung them.
    7. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        28 September 2017 09: 04
        Quote: Tatiana
        However, despite the hatred and contempt of the ordinary people of Russia for Gorbach, the current Russian authorities will bury Mishka in Russian soil with great honors, under the guards of the military guard, with gorgeous commemoration at the public expense!

        Well, so - if there hadn’t been tagged there would have been no such “successful” ones (KOs).
    8. +1
      28 September 2017 09: 09
      G - ready
      O - implement
      P - decisions
      B - Brezhnev
      A - Andropova
      Ch - Chernenko
      E - if
      In - I will survive
    9. +14
      28 September 2017 09: 10
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      it's still put it mildly

      Indeed, to say the least! A henpecked sold his homeland, afraid for his affairs to seem compatriots by sight - why should we love him ???
      From the statements of this changeling ...
      “The purpose of my whole life was the destruction of communism, the unbearable dictatorship of people. I was fully supported by my wife, who realized the need for this even earlier than I did. To achieve this goal, I used my position in the party and country. That is why my wife kept pushing me to consistently occupy an increasingly higher position in the country. When I personally became acquainted with the West, I realized that I could not retreat from my goal. And to achieve it, I had to replace the entire leadership of the CPSU and the USSR, as well as the leadership in all socialist countries. ”

      I would be very happy if Mikhail Malyukov and Nadezhda Voronova, who expressed in their actions everything that the common people of the former USSR think to this Judah, were awarded the title Heroes of Russia!
      1. 0
        28 September 2017 10: 07
        Quote: Serg65
        if Mikhail Malyukov

        http://www.voskres.ru/articles/peminov.htm
    10. +6
      28 September 2017 09: 36
      Gorbachev will forever go down in Russian history as a bad boy. And what difference does it make to us how they think of him in the West. The main thing is that liberalism in Russia does not take root by definition.
      1. +2
        28 September 2017 10: 40
        "Gorbachev will forever go down in Russian history as a boy is bad" ///

        Is not a fact. In the coming decades, yes. In 100-200 years - I wouldn’t promise.
        Perhaps the opposite.
    11. +2
      28 September 2017 09: 39
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      in the West, puzzled by the hostility in Russia to Gorbachev.
      - It's still put it mildly! Hatred - this is closer to the truth!

      Mysterious Russian soul: From love to hate, one step. (They loved Mishka when he came and said the right words. And the Congress of the CPSU, oh .... poem)
      1. +3
        28 September 2017 10: 51
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        Mysterious Russian soul: From love to hate, one step. (They loved Mishka when he came and said the right words. And the Congress of the CPSU, oh .... poem)

        Hehe hehe ... so with us Guy Borealis Alcoligulu loved. To such an extent that they did not even believe their eyes when on Soviet TV they showed a drunk EBN during a visit to the USA - "he was tired, he felt bad and took pills, you deliberately slowed down the film, this is completely off !!!".
    12. +2
      28 September 2017 12: 09
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      Hatred - this is closer to the truth!

      No longer. Rather contempt.
    13. +1
      28 September 2017 12: 49
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      Hatred - this is closer to the truth!

      I am generally surprised at this way of posing the question. You might think that the modern story with Trump didn’t teach them anything and they don’t understand how to dislike and hate their leader.
  2. +9
    28 September 2017 08: 48
    For everything he did, Gorbachev should be buried in the Yeltsin Center ...
    1. +34
      28 September 2017 08: 51
      Better with the Yeltsin Center
      1. +1
        29 September 2017 01: 30
        The Yeltsin Center is best preserved as a museum of the crimes of Yeltsinism. With detailed expositions of rampant poverty, collapse, crime
    2. +7
      28 September 2017 08: 56
      No, it’s too much honor to bury in such a “mausoleum.” You should have put it in a junkyard of history. (And remake the Yeltsin center in the analogy of the Palace of Pioneers.)
      1. +9
        28 September 2017 09: 09
        Quote: Idunawa
        to bury too much honor in such a "mausoleum"

        And what if, along with the "mausoleum"? Then it’s probably normal. And then on top with bulldozers, bulldozers ... And concrete on top of a meter three. So that even the smells would not come out of there. am
    3. +2
      28 September 2017 10: 13
      Quote: Thrall
      must be buried in the Yeltsin Center

      during his lifetime ...
    4. 0
      28 September 2017 13: 55
      Quote: Thrall
      For everything he did, Gorbachev should be buried in the Yeltsin Center ...


      Um ... Another mausoleum will appear?
      One is a destroyer ... The second is a destroyer ... And - not a single creator ... request
  3. +18
    28 September 2017 08: 48
    Hatred of Russians towards Gorbachev in the West is considered a “mystery”
    If they lived in the Gorbachev USSR and then in Yeltsin Russia, perhaps they would understand why the Russians hate such “reformers”.
  4. +1
    28 September 2017 08: 48
    How can you not love this toad
  5. +14
    28 September 2017 08: 52
    in the West perplexed by hostility in Russia to Gorbachev

    I don’t know, like the Anglo-Saxons, but we have the concept of “Judah” both in common and negative. They do not like traitors in Russia
  6. +5
    28 September 2017 08: 52
    "Gorbachev himself does not believe that he played a role in the collapse of the USSR." ... and he also "did not play" a role in the collapse of the agriculture of the USSR, which he supervised through the Central Committee of the CPSU.
    1. +4
      28 September 2017 09: 34
      He didn’t play anything; he squinted in all seriousness.
  7. +13
    28 September 2017 08: 54
    Western zhurnalyugi and anal'itiki know very well why we despise the humpbacked. they simply turned on the fool, thereby justifying the thesis that had arisen a long time ago that the people were wrong, it would be necessary to “educate” us up to 15/20 million.
  8. +1
    28 September 2017 08: 54
    Thanks to him, people were able to travel abroad.
    1. +16
      28 September 2017 08: 57
      your brother always left)) at least a stuffed animal, at least a carcass)))
      1. +2
        28 September 2017 09: 02
        Why. Look at Lavrov, Putin, etc. children live in the USA, have real estate, passports. It seems they are not Americans.
        And why the Jews cannot leave for the Jewish country, why it touches you.
        1. +3
          28 September 2017 09: 20
          Quote: Belyash
          Look at Lavrov, Putin, etc. children live in the USA

          lol So well, one Jew life should be raspberries ???
          1. +6
            28 September 2017 10: 12
            Belyash
            Look at Lavrov ... children live in the USA, they have real estate, passports.
            Do not talk about Lavrov. This is long outdated information.
            Lavrov has long been living in Russia with his daughter and his whole family and relatives. No one in his family has passports of other countries except Russian property abroad.
            1. +4
              28 September 2017 10: 26
              Quote: Tatiana
              Belyash
              Look at Lavrov ... children live in the USA, they have real estate, passports.
              Do not talk about Lavrov. This is long outdated information.
              Lavrov has long been living in Russia with his daughter and his whole family and relatives. No one in his family has passports of other countries except Russian property abroad.

              Seriously? Did they tell you (once again) on TV? Here, who exactly lives in their own country and not from whom her dads do not hide. feel

              Weakly the same pictures, Tatyana? That's it ... wink
              1. +3
                28 September 2017 22: 24
                Quote: analgin
                Weakly the same pictures, Tatyana? That's it ...

                And there is still security somewhere in the background hanging out. Didn’t fit in the frame? Or hid under the table?
                1. 0
                  29 September 2017 20: 51
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Quote: analgin
                  Weakly the same pictures, Tatyana? That's it ...

                  And there is still security somewhere in the background hanging out. Didn’t fit in the frame? Or hid under the table?

                  Mordvin 3
                  Well, lay out the same pictures of the daughters of Putin and Lavrov, albeit without "hiding under the security table." What, no such? That's it. recourse
                  1. +2
                    29 September 2017 21: 02
                    Quote: analgin
                    What, no such?

                    Mute. Even the Korean is dumb. GB hid everything. feel
                    1. +1
                      29 September 2017 21: 05
                      Quote: mordvin xnumx
                      Quote: analgin
                      What, no such?

                      Mute. Even the Korean is dumb. GB hid everything. feel

                      I always suspected that the American "GB" - go @ you (since you didn’t hide it either), and you confirmed my guesses.
                      PS: More emoticons when there is nothing to answer. This is a win-win option!
                      1. +2
                        29 September 2017 21: 12
                        Quote: analgin
                        More emoticons when there is nothing to answer.

                        Interrupt. Why is this "nothing to answer"? Clearly said - there are no such photos. Only a cheap farce with Obama's daughter is also incomprehensible. Salary for the protection of the store accrued? Yeah. Any shopkeeper will send such a seller to hell. Mentally.
                  2. 0
                    29 September 2017 21: 10
                    Quote: analgin
                    Well, post the same pictures of the daughters of Putin and Lavrov,

                    Kindergarten
                    what for?!!!
                    why pull a tiger by a mustache, creating a situation in which you can influence the first persons of the state? !!!!!!!!
                    1. 0
                      29 September 2017 21: 20
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Quote: analgin
                      Well, post the same pictures of the daughters of Putin and Lavrov,

                      Kindergarten
                      what for?!!!
                      why pull a tiger by a mustache, creating a situation in which you can influence the first persons of the state? !!!!!!!!

                      And why is Obama not afraid to "pull the mustache while creating ..."

                      1. +1
                        30 September 2017 08: 12
                        fool because
        2. +1
          28 September 2017 10: 21
          Quote: Belyash
          Why. Look at Lavrov, Putin, etc. children live in the USA, have real estate, passports. It seems they are not Americans.

          Why are you breaching?
          Quote: Belyash
          And why the Jews cannot leave for the Jewish country, why it touches you.

          The Jews are to blame for the collapse of the USSR ???
    2. +13
      28 September 2017 09: 00
      Quote: Belyash
      Thanks to him, people were able to travel abroad.

      And where did you get the idea that this is the first vital necessity? Although, for a Jew, it is quite possible.
    3. +5
      28 September 2017 09: 02
      We have twenty million below the poverty line ... and you are about abroad ...
    4. +9
      28 September 2017 09: 02
      Quote: Belyash
      Thanks to him, people were able to travel abroad.

      ... to fight for the Donbass am
    5. +12
      28 September 2017 09: 18
      Quote: Belyash
      Thanks to him, people were able to travel abroad.

      laughing Thanks to him, the Jews of the USSR lost the honorary title of zavmag, zabavolov, zavbaz, zavbani, zavsklad and were forced to emigrate to Israel, but many Jews were not comme il faut to reorganize into Israelis and they rushed to the USA bully
      1. +2
        28 September 2017 10: 06
        Quote: Serg65
        Thanks to him, the Jews of the USSR lost the honorary titles of zavmag ...

        head in childhood did not knock ?!
        1. +2
          28 September 2017 12: 54
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          head in childhood did not knock ?!

          belay but sho noticeable?
  9. +12
    28 September 2017 08: 54
    The collapse of the Soviet Union was carried out, guided by personal ambitions and a thirst for power, the participants of the Bialowieza Agreements.
    One started, others finished. Therefore, people put Mechny and Alkash in one row. And there’s nothing for the hunchback to try to bounce to the side!
    1. +1
      28 September 2017 09: 08
      Quote: Hagalaz
      The collapse of the Soviet Union was carried out, guided by personal ambitions and a thirst for power, the participants of the Bialowieza Agreements.

      Not only. If the hunchbacked, through the Supreme Council, had not extended his presidential powers to the year 2000, there would have been no need to liquidate the country to remove him from power. And so, this was the only legitimate way to prematurely remove him from power.
      1. +3
        28 September 2017 09: 21
        Quote: Cube123
        If the hunchbacked, through the Supreme Council, had not extended his presidential powers to the 2000 year, there would have been no need to liquidate the country to remove him from power. And so, this was the only legitimate way to prematurely remove him from power.

        what Is this a new version of the reorganization of the USSR?
        1. +1
          28 September 2017 09: 25
          Not at all. Read, for example, Doctor of History Anatoly Utkin. The book "Betrayal of the Secretary General. Flight from Europe."
          1. +6
            28 September 2017 09: 31
            Quote: Cube123
            Read for example

            My friend, why should I read, all this was before my eyes! And how Raika built a summer house in the Crimea, and how GKChPisty left the plane half-bent in Kache, and how after the GKChP Gorbachev's superhero Gdlyan drove a fighter below the baseboard! Read better memories than analytics!
      2. +1
        28 September 2017 10: 05
        Quote: Cube123
        And so, this was the only legitimate way to prematurely remove him from power.

        this is something new

        According to the Constitution of the USSR, the President of the USSR was to be elected by citizens of the USSR by direct and secret ballot for a term of 5 years. As an exception, the first election of the President of the USSR was held by the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR
        1. 0
          28 September 2017 10: 31
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          were held by the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR

          Nothing that the Union treaties ended by the 1989 year? And yet, it was the actual existence of the Union that impeded any economic activity?
          Quote: Serg65
          My friend, why should I read, all this was before my eyes!

          Nobody argues. Of interest is the process technology in order to draw conclusions. Various.
          1. 0
            28 September 2017 10: 38
            Quote: sogdy
            And yet, it was the actual existence of the Union that impeded any economic activity?

            This is how and to whom it hindered the Americans? Well, then worry about them.
            But it seems closer to you ... "We all remember that Medvedev has no money, and you know why? Because they are at the head of the technical support department of the food department of the Ministry of Defense, Colonel Alexander Vakulin. And before that, they were at the deputy head of the “T” department of the Main Directorate of Economic Security of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia Dmitry Zakharchenko, and before that, at Serdyukov and Vasilyeva, and before that ... - and so on to infinity. "V. Rashkin
            1. 0
              28 September 2017 10: 46
              Quote: Pancir026
              How and to whom did it prevent it?

              For example, bank transfers were stopped -> factories were left without funds to purchase materials, pay salaries, but with obligations to deliver.

              So call me, this is a conversation without show-offs.
              And to me, to a light bulb, "vasmuschschonya shouts."
              1. +2
                28 September 2017 10: 48
                Quote: sogdy
                For example, bank transfers were stopped -> factories were left without funds to purchase materials, pay salaries, but with obligations to deliver.

                Is that all you know? And why did it happen, you don’t know? You don’t know for sure or pretend that you don’t know?
                Pontees do not need to be twisted here, they lived at that time and saw who was turning something.
                1. 0
                  28 September 2017 11: 38
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  And why did this happen, you don’t know?

                  I know. And I know for sure.
                  But I do not know all the "heroes" by name.
                  Still have a complaint?
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  lived at that time and saw who was spinning something.

                  He who does not see will not see.
                  You are talking about crime. I’m talking about the absolutely legal that crime preceded.
              2. +1
                28 September 2017 12: 40
                Quote: sogdy
                For example, bank transfers were stopped -> factories were left without funds to purchase materials, pay salaries, but with obligations to deliver.

                it’s just a consequence of the collapse of the USSR. Apparently, you were either not there at the time, or you were a child.
          2. 0
            28 September 2017 11: 43
            Quote: sogdy
            Nothing that the Union Treaties ended by 1989?

            and why is this ?!
            By the way, what kind of "Union Treaties" the agreement was ONE from 30.12.1922/XNUMX/XNUMX there were no others
            Quote: sogdy
            was it the actual existence of the Union that impeded any economic activity?

            What is it like?!!!!!!!!
            forgive you in 91-93 how old was ?!
            just the collapse of the USSR terribly affected economic activity
            1. 0
              28 September 2017 11: 49
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              the contract was ONE of 30.12.1922/XNUMX/XNUMX there were no others

              An agreement was concluded with each republic. Urgent, without automatic renewal. On the basis of the operation of these treaties the USSR existed as a legal entity (simplify).
              Actually, in our time it was studied at school.
              1. +1
                28 September 2017 12: 37
                Quote: sogdy
                An agreement was concluded with each republic. Urgent, without automatic renewal. On the basis of the operation of these treaties the USSR existed as a legal entity (simplify).


                Treaty on the Formation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (adopted at the I Congress of Soviets of the USSR December 30.12.1922, XNUMX)

                The Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic (RSFSR), the Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic (USSR), the Belarusian Socialist Soviet Republic (BSSR) and the Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic (ZSFSR - Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia) conclude this Union Treaty to merge into one union state - "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" - on the following grounds.
                http://dslov.ru/txt/t85.htm




                Quote: sogdy
                Actually, in our time it was studied at school.
                apparently bad
                1. 0
                  28 September 2017 12: 57
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Treaty on the Formation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

                  This is the title of the Agreement. Well, it’s not the point.
                  Republics 15. Apart from exclusives such as Siberia and the Far East.
                  So where is the timing and extension?
                  But in international law, as in Roman, there are no perpetual agreements.
                  In the US, this is formulated “forever” - but it still has a limit.
                  1. +1
                    28 September 2017 13: 20
                    Quote: sogdy
                    This is the title of the Agreement. Well, it’s not the point.
                    Republics 15. Apart from exclusives such as Siberia and the Far East.
                    So where is the timing and extension?
                    But in international law, as in Roman, there are no perpetual agreements.

                    teach you no desire
                    finally give the text of YOUR contract
              2. +3
                28 September 2017 22: 39
                Quote: sogdy
                Actually, in our time it was studied at school.

                The textbook will not prompt? I want to read what they teach there.
          3. +1
            28 September 2017 20: 14
            Quote: sogdy
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            were held by the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR

            Nothing that the Union treaties ended by the 1989 year? And yet, it was the actual existence of the Union that impeded any economic activity?
            Quote: Serg65
            My friend, why should I read, all this was before my eyes!

            Nobody argues. Of interest is the process technology in order to draw conclusions. Various.

            I apologize to the ignoramus, and when were the union agreements concluded and for how long, which ended in the 1989 year? And in what regulatory documents of the USSR can they be found? And please, give without conspiracy theories, just the name of the document, the date of its publication and the number of articles where these treaties are written and the duration of their action. Thank you in advance))))
        2. +2
          28 September 2017 11: 48
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          Quote: Cube123
          And so, this was the only legitimate way to prematurely remove him from power.

          this is something new

          According to the Constitution of the USSR, the President of the USSR was to be elected by citizens of the USSR by direct and secret ballot for a term of 5 years. As an exception, the first election of the President of the USSR was held by the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR

          An exception was made for Gorbachev - his first term did not count. Therefore, his authority should have expired after a maximum of 10 years, i.e. in the year 2000.
          1. 0
            28 September 2017 12: 38
            Quote: Cube123
            Therefore, his authority should have expired after a maximum of 10 years, i.e. in the year 2000.

            you do not write nonsense, this does not mean that his powers expired in 2000, this meant that he could be in power, but NOT a fact that he would
            1. +2
              28 September 2017 15: 09
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              Quote: Cube123
              Therefore, his authority should have expired after a maximum of 10 years, i.e. in the year 2000.

              you do not write nonsense, this does not mean that his powers expired in 2000, this meant that he could be in power, but NOT a fact that he would

              You can call it stupid, but the "customers" did not want to wait so long and as a result he was left behind after a year and a half.

              But seriously, the USSR was destroyed by Gorbachev. I don’t know, by his poor mind or "comrades" they helped. It was also done as before CMEA was destroyed. In the case of CMEA, the reason was the decision Gorbachev put forward on mutual settlements between countries in the "hard" currency. In the case of the USSR, a similar decision regarding mutual settlements between the republics. People are rational creatures and quickly realized that you need to earn money where they are found. And “hard” currency is easier to earn by working for the United States, which prints it, and not for the USSR, for which it is chronically lacking. Everything else was just a consequence of this reason.
    2. +5
      28 September 2017 10: 07
      I am usually struck by the double standards of our liberals.
      On the one hand, for all the atrocities imaginary and real of the 30s and 40s, Stalin was responsible (and the defeat of 41 was also on his conscience), but Gorbachev was not to blame - you see, three of them gathered in the forest and all collapsed. And the people themselves ruined everything, and not he, he only went to meet the desires of the working masses.
  10. +4
    28 September 2017 08: 54
    And how is it now with "nuclear security", "freedom of Europe" and I will not be afraid of this with the "fears of the people"?
  11. +11
    28 September 2017 08: 56
    This is the man who took the world a few steps back from the nuclear abyss and freed his compatriots from suffocating fear, the man who put an end to the bloody foreign adventures and freed Eastern Europe ...

    Your division! Got away from the nuclear abyss? And Kim III - Trump now what, pipisk ... mi measured? Someone from the rostrum of the UN screams that it will destroy the country, the second commercials launched as the American AUG to smithereens!

    Bloody foreign adventures of the USSR or FSA, let me clarify?
    Here is an incomplete list of all wars after the moronic Gorbi destroyed the USSR:
    - Georgian-Abkhaz conflict
    - Nagorno-Karabakh
    - Transnistria
    - two Chechen companies
    - Georgia - South Ossetia 08.08.08.
    - Ukraine has been blazing in the fire for 4 years and no end-edge can be seen ...

    For the countries of Eastern Europe and about Yugoslavia I am generally silent.
    The Middle East and Afghanistan have flared up with Desert Storm and the end-edge is also not visible ..

    In 1988, 1000 rubles were left on the parents ’passbook - it was possible to buy a car, and as a result, they bought the Mars chocolate bar !!!!

    So tell me what to love and respect Gorby. No wonder he screwed into the UK, oh no wonder. Would tear it here in Russia.
    1. +1
      28 September 2017 09: 17
      "..Middle East and Afghanistan as flared up with" Desert Storm "and also the end-edge is not visible .." "

      The Middle East has blazed like this since the mid-40s .... but Afghanistan flared up in the late 70s ... don’t you remember thanks to whom? ... which country?



      "... In 1988, 1000 rubles were left on the parents’ passbook - you could buy a car, and as a result, you bought a chocolate bar "Mars" !!!! ... "



      What kind of car could you buy in 1988 for 1000 rubles? ... except maybe a color TV ... after a couple of years of recording and big blast ...
      1. +1
        28 September 2017 10: 03
        About Afghanistan, you should still refresh your knowledge and dig a little deeper than 70X. Not?) And to understand the essence of what happened and what happened there as a whole.
        How does the fact that the Middle East has been quiet for 2000 years already cancels the fact of NATO aggression in the 90s ??
        1. +1
          28 September 2017 13: 46
          Quote: Stabilization
          About Afghanistan, you should still refresh your knowledge and dig a little deeper than 70X. Not?) And to understand the essence of what happened and what happened there as a whole.
          How does the fact that the Middle East has been quiet for 2000 years already cancels the fact of NATO aggression in the 90s ??



          We are not talking about NATO and not about history since time immemorial ... we are talking about Gorbachev ... but he didn’t kindle anything on BV or in Afghanistan
      2. 0
        28 September 2017 12: 33
        Quote: Gransasso
        What kind of car could you buy in 1988 for 1000 rubles? ... except maybe a color TV ... after a couple of years of recording and big blast ...

        in 1988, the price of Birch was reduced from 200 to 80 rubles.
        But with a car - a puncture. Less than 1000 - for production, the so-called "state price"
        1. +2
          28 September 2017 13: 49
          Quote: sogdy
          Quote: Gransasso
          What kind of car could you buy in 1988 for 1000 rubles? ... except maybe a color TV ... after a couple of years of recording and big blast ...

          in 1988, the price of Birch was reduced from 200 to 80 rubles.
          But with a car - a puncture. Less than 1000 - for production, the so-called "state price"




          The price of the TV "KVN 49" in 1961 before the reform of money - 1200 rubles
          .
          The price of a b / w TV "Record 331" is 210 rubles.
          The price of the Rubin 401-1 color TV, one of the first color TVs, in 1972 was 1200 rubles.
          The price of the Electron 716 color TV set without an ACS unit in 1980 was 680 rubles. (most models 714 and 716-series cost the same)
          The price of the color television "Electron 716D" with an ACS unit in 1980 is 715 rubles. (also similar models).
          The price of the color television "Electron 718" with touch control is 780 rubles. (or 755 rub.)?
          The price of the TV "Youth 406", b / w image - 200 rubles.
          The price of the TV "Youth 406D" (with a decameter prefix) is 215 rubles.
          The price of the TV "Dawn 306" b / w image - 140 rubles.
          The price of the TV "Quartz 306" b / w image - 140 rubles.
          The price of the TV "Record VTs381" in color image is 635 rubles.
          The price of the “Record VTs381D” TV (with a decameter prefix) is 680 rubles.
          TV "Rubin Ts-201" The price of 1980 - 775 rubles.
          TV "Rubin Ts-202" The price of 1980 - 775 rubles.
          TV "Slavutich Ts-201" The price of 1980 - 775 rubles.
          TV "Birch Ts-201" The price of 1980 - 775 rubles.
          TV "Amber Ts-310" The price of 1980 - 550 rubles.
          TV "RUBIN-714" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 680 rubles
          TV "PHOTON-714" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 680 rubles.
          TV "HORIZON-728" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 720 rubles.
          TEMP-714 TV. The price of 1980 is 680 rubles.
          TV "ELECTRON-718" The price of 1980 - 755 rubles.
          TV "VITYAZ-722" The price of 1980 - 755 rubles.
          TV "SADCO-714" The price of 1980 - 680 rubles.
          TV "Seagull-714" The price of 1980 - 680 rubles.
          TV "SHILALIS TS-401" Price of 1980 - 450 rubles.
          TV "YOUTH TS-401" The price of 1980 - 450 rubles.
          TV "ELECTRONICS TS-430" ("AURORA") Price of 1980 - 470 rubles.
          TV "PHOTON-225" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 336 rubles.
          TV "HORIZON-206" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 296 rubles.
          TV "CRIMEA-218" The price of 1980 - 296 rubles
          TV "TAURAS-210" The price of 1980 - 296 rubles.
          TV "BIRCH-215" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 296 rubles.
          TV "CASCADE-205" The price of 1980 - 296 rubles.
          TV "Seagull-207" The price of 1980 - 296 rubles.
          TV "SADKO-306" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 200 rubles.
          TV "SHILALIS TS-402D" (G.Z.K.) Price of 1980 - 200 rubles.
          TV "SHILALIS TS-403D" The price of 1980 - 775 rubles.
          TV "Youth-402" The price of 1980 - 220 rubles.
          TV "ELECTRONICS-407" The price of 1980 - 191 rubles.
          TV "ELECTRONICS-11" The price of 1980 - 140 rubles.
    2. +1
      28 September 2017 13: 25
      No wonder he screwed into the UK, oh no wonder. Would tear it here in Russia.
      By the way, here I ask myself: "And where will the GDP live after the presidency?
      1. +1
        28 September 2017 13: 39
        Quote: BecmepH
        By the way, here I ask myself: "And where will the GDP live after the presidency?

        good question ... It seems that everything will depend on the events of the next couple of years.
  12. +5
    28 September 2017 08: 58
    What can I say? ... "Tagged" - Judas, and this is for life, I'm afraid that by inheritance ...
  13. +1
    28 September 2017 08: 58
    Strange people, but they love Stalin .. with Kadyrov
    1. +5
      28 September 2017 09: 02
      That they just say so - "We love Kadyrov, I can’t eat it anymore"?
    2. +11
      28 September 2017 09: 03
      Quote: Belyash
      Strange people, but they love Stalin .. with Kadyrov

      Truly strange, once upon a time.after a democratic mess, many love Stalin.
    3. +9
      28 September 2017 09: 24
      Quote: Belyash
      Strange people, but they love Stalin .. with Kadyrov

      Well, not all, not all ... that Jews do not like, but why ???
      What do Moses and Stalin look like?
      Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, and Stalin brought the Jews out of the Central Committee lol
      1. +3
        28 September 2017 09: 35
        Quote: Serg65
        What do Moses and Stalin look like?
        Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, and Stalin brought the Jews out of the Central Committee

        As you are absolutely right ... Cheka, political department, everything was beaten by them and blood poured in streams!
        1. +2
          28 September 2017 10: 01
          Quote: DEPARTMENT
          everything was hammered by them and blood poured in streams!

          she also poured blood in streams

          and he

          and now he poured the blood of the enemies of our country not even by streams of rivers


          at least sometimes they didn’t try to think, rather than wave their hands and write nonsense? !!!
          1. +1
            28 September 2017 10: 17
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            at least sometimes they didn’t try to think, rather than wave their hands and write nonsense? !!!

            I thought for a long time and read a lot ... Alas, my opinion remains the same ..
            The 90s confirmed my suspicion in a complete and final conclusion.,! hi
            1. +1
              28 September 2017 12: 42
              Quote: DEPARTMENT
              I thought for a long time and read a lot ...

              apparently bad
              Quote: DEPARTMENT
              The 90s confirmed my suspicion in a complete and final conclusion.,!

              apologize to those noble to whom you scribble your nonsense there is no desire? !!!
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          3. +4
            28 September 2017 12: 48
            Quote: DEPARTMENT
            Detachments of Jewish partisans, will anyone remember?

            are you friends with brains at all ?!
            maybe enough already to insult those who fought including for you? !!!

            the detachment under the leadership of Lev Gilchik consisted entirely of Jews.
            a unique phenomenon arose in the partisan movement of Belarus - Jewish family partisan detachments. The most famous of them was a detachment of them. Kalinin Baranavichy region under the leadership of Tuvye Belsky. As part of this detachment at the time of joining the units of the Red Army in July 1944, there were 1233 people, including 296 armed.
            Partisan detachment No. 106 under the command of Sholom Zorin was composed mainly of former prisoners of the Minsk ghetto. It consisted of 596 people, 141 of whom were part of the battle group. The "household" groups of Jewish family units, consisting of tailors, shoemakers, bakers, doctors, watchmakers, repairmen and other specialists, became the base serving many partisan units.
            Jews who fell into the forest in the spring and summer of 1942 also organized Jewish Jewish guerrilla groups. One of the first such detachments under the leadership of Boris Gindin, consisted mainly of Jews who escaped from captivity or who left the encirclement.
            Of the most famous detachments created from among the former prisoners of the Minsk ghetto, we should name the detachment named after them. Kutuzov led by Israel Lapidus. In the detachment under the command of Pavel Vasilyevich Pronyagin, a separate 51st regiment was created from former prisoners of the Slonim ghetto, in which there were more than 150 people.
            1. +1
              28 September 2017 13: 33
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              a unique phenomenon arose in the partisan movement of Belarus - Jewish family partisan detachments. The most famous of them was a detachment of them. Kalinina

              That's exactly the unique phenomenon .. hehe
              The farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans! laughing
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              apologize to those noble to whom you scribble your nonsense there is no desire? !!!

              Not in front of anyone hi
              I read their memoirs rare, very rare .. Yes there were heroic men Jews! But there was no general uplifting before the Nazis ... They ran away with suitcases all over the world .. And in the watered departments of the TT waved Russian soldiers to attack the frontal ... Then they treated them ... more often they cut their legs, there were no drugs.
              Or am I wrong ..?
              A moan stood over all of Russia!
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +2
                28 September 2017 14: 19
                And here I am.
                I read and cry, laughing.
                Jewish partisan detachment. 1233-number of the detachment. And only 296 with weapons.
                Poor Jewish tailors and hairdressers ...
                Well, their handles are not adapted for machine guns and machine guns. They would be in Tashkent ...
                1. +2
                  28 September 2017 14: 26
                  Quote: Chadan Khemchiksky
                  I read and cry, laughing. Well, their handles are not adapted for machine guns and machine guns. They would be in Tashkent ...

                  how are you “right” Polina Vladimirovna Gelman (October 24, 1919 - November 29, 2005) - communications chief of the aviation squadron of the 46th guards night bomber aviation regiment of the 325th night bomber aviation division of the 4th air army of the 2nd Belorussian front, senior guard lieutenant. It made 860 sorties. Hero of the Soviet Union.
          4. +1
            29 September 2017 01: 44
            A partisan detachment was operating in Belarus under the leadership of the Belsky brothers, Jews of nationality. What is surprising, they were either in the forest or in the execution moat
    4. +4
      28 September 2017 09: 31
      Quote: Belyash
      Strange people, but they love Stalin .. with Kadyrov

      Well, do not worship Judas! Russians have a special relationship with traitors, and Gorbachev is the first of the traitors.
    5. +6
      28 September 2017 10: 46
      Belyash Today, 08:58
      Strange people, but they love Stalin .. with Kadyrov

      Only a very stupid person can put on one board Stalin and Kadyrov
    6. +3
      28 September 2017 13: 27
      Quote: Belyash
      Strange people, but they love Stalin .. with Kadyrov

      And who loves Kadyrov? The first time I've heard.
    7. 0
      28 September 2017 21: 56
      Beat the Jews save Russia
      1. 0
        29 September 2017 02: 37
        Quote: monastery
        Beat the Jews save Russia
        - Teapot.
        .
      2. +1
        29 September 2017 06: 46
        you would first write Russia with a capital letter
  14. +1
    28 September 2017 08: 59
    bald in one word ...
    1. +4
      28 September 2017 09: 11
      Not bald, labeled.
      1. +9
        28 September 2017 09: 36
        Quote: Nitochkin
        Not bald, labeled.

        Rather, two in one, and bald and tagged. hi
  15. +7
    28 September 2017 09: 00
    He also knew ... stood a meter away ... in his hand a gas key wrapped in a newspaper ...
    1. +5
      28 September 2017 09: 29
      but could change the course of history wink
  16. +3
    28 September 2017 09: 01
    liberating Eastern Europe ... From whom? from hardworking and peaceful Slavs? But now in Eastern Europe there are a lot of bearded "refugees" who do not care about European values, the culture and traditions of the peoples living there.
    1. +8
      28 September 2017 09: 07
      It’s not true about Europe. As they already wrote here, the peaceful bombing of Yugoslavia was released ... True, if the USSR had been alive this could not have happened in principle ...
  17. +7
    28 September 2017 09: 11
    Whenever there will still be a trial, and even this leader is found guilty of the collapse of the USSR, in the fact that the fires of war broke out in the territory of the once greatest country, in the deaths and deaths of millions of fellow citizens, in the infinite nineties, in that thanks to his transformations, the country lowered to the bottom and the miracle that she rises from her knees. Judgment and eternal damnation.
    1. +4
      28 September 2017 14: 52
      Quote: Hariton Laptev
      Whenever there will still be a trial, and even this leader is found guilty of the collapse of the USSR, in the fact that the fires of war broke out in the territory of the once greatest country, in the deaths and deaths of millions of fellow citizens, in the infinite nineties, in that thanks to his transformations, the country lowered to the bottom and the miracle that she rises from her knees. Judgment and eternal damnation.

      Then these immediately surfaced (50 billion are required by you and me, one of them is fluent, etc.)))) .. And how much later?
  18. +3
    28 September 2017 09: 12
    ... freed from normal life ....
  19. +1
    28 September 2017 09: 13
    I completely agree that the blame for the collapse rests with everyone, otherwise they are used to choosing a scapegoat. Gorbachev was weak and not ready to defend his position. Yes, remember how they rallied for Yeltsin-that is, Gorbachev did not have support, and Yeltsin, winged, took power and with the "colleagues" signed the collapse of the union, so that everyone would get a presidential chair. Would the police and Gorbachev’s army support? unlikely, but if supported, then he would quickly be renamed into dictators and those who now hang everything on him would moan about the "co-op" regime
    1. +7
      28 September 2017 09: 56
      Quote: bddrus
      those. Gorbachev did not have support

      And where does this support come from? For three years, it has collapsed what has been built for decades!
      Quote: bddrus
      Would the police and Gorbachev’s army support?

      Of course they wouldn’t support him; he lowered this army below the baseboard! Even the unspoken order was "To go beyond the territory of a unit only to a citizen!"
      Quote: bddrus
      those who now hang everything on him would moan about the "co-op" mode

      laughing Are you a storyteller? Hans Christian is not your relative?
  20. +10
    28 September 2017 09: 18
    Gorbachev and Yeltsin, both two, statesmen fellow
    I will never forget Gorbachev’s poverty, I will never forget how people cooked on stoves in Khrushchev’s five-story buildings in Kazakhstan, and on the street it’s frost -30, it’s a little warmer in apartments, there is no water in the pipes.
    I won’t forget how I stood in line for humanitarian aid in St. Petersburg - NATO Suhpai, only once ... a classmate carried away (kakol from Dnepropetrovsk, this is in their blood, now I remember and wonder) he didn’t go anymore, it’s better to die.
    I will not forget the oily Gaidar face and the ever-drunk Yeltsin, who had only one goal - to steer, to feel like the main shishkar, and there - at least the grass does not grow.
    eekhma, it is easier for young people winked
    but they must be warned against these ... gozman, stankevich, red-headed, bulk, white and other riffraffers without honor, without conscience, without a homeland.
  21. +5
    28 September 2017 09: 18
    You can explain to them in just one word - traitor.
  22. +4
    28 September 2017 09: 21
    Gorbachev’s name is associated with a rather difficult period in our country: perestroika (and in my opinion it’s just a division of the country between the party elite, officials of different stripes and their close circle). They don’t build a new house without preparation, they don’t break down the old house, where is it to live during the construction? The collapse of the whole industry: where is our chemical industry working from the zero stage, light industry, agriculture? Factories in ruins, in the fields of cottages, all that remains in private hands, often foreign. Not only Gorbachev is to blame for this, there are many such persons in his circle and their names are known to everyone. So, that not only him needs to be judged for the poor old people, homeless people on the streets and the ruins of factories. I hope all of them reward history as they deserve.
    1. +3
      29 September 2017 02: 50
      Quote: wizard
      ... It’s not only Gorbachev who is to blame for this, there are those around him ...
      - What a pop, such a parish! A narcissistic talker and a sloth, by the will of the wildest irony of fate, who became the head of a superpower. He upheld adequate, scored along, until he was hysterical, was afraid to take any responsibility. No one has ever harmed Russia so much as this insignificance.
  23. +6
    28 September 2017 09: 23
    And how else to relate to the stupid upstart enemy who surrendered a great country ?! He is an idiot and a traitor. According to him, the prison cries according to the article Treason to the Motherland.
    1. +6
      28 September 2017 09: 51
      Quote: Pacifist
      According to him, the prison cries according to the article Treason

      yes no no prison
  24. +13
    28 September 2017 09: 25
    Really and why do we hate him so much? Maybe that's why?

    THIS IS THROUGH SEVERAL MONTHS AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF THE COUNTRY CONFIRMED TO HIM. ENJOYING LIFE IN THE CIRCLE OF REAL FRIENDS, WHICH FROM FRIENDLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, FOR WHICH IN THE DESTROYED COUNTRY DO NOT LIKE THEIR FRIENDS.
  25. +9
    28 September 2017 09: 27
    "This is the man who took the world a few steps back from the nuclear abyss and freed his compatriots from suffocating fear, the man who put an end to the bloody foreign adventures, freeing Eastern Europe ..."
    It was thanks to his "peacekeeping" activities (and simply surrendering the position of the state) that bloody adventures such as the bloody collapse of Yugoslavia, the genocide in Iraq and Libya, US aggression against Syria in alliance with ISIS, the creation of international terrorist organizations that let rivers of blood throughout planet massacre in the former Soviet republics. Here we add the death of the USSR economy due to the clumsy, and maybe wrecking, Gorbachev administration. So who is Gorbachev for the people of Russia? It is unlikely that there will be many Russians who have said warm and kind words to him.

    “I categorically affirm that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not occur as a result of the development of perestroika in the country. To think so would be a major historical mistake. ”
    Gorbachev himself is the biggest historical mistake.
    1. 0
      28 September 2017 11: 31
      Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya should not worry you. Take care of your country and do not blather. Assad may be left alive if ISIS helps to fight.
      1. 0
        29 September 2017 01: 47
        What should concern us and what should not be your business. Assad turned out to be too tough for you, you can sob
    2. +2
      28 September 2017 13: 36
      It is unlikely that there will be many Russians who have said warm and kind words to him.
      Impossible, but ... On the site there is unanimity regarding this type.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. +3
    28 September 2017 09: 28
    I don’t understand why a criminal case has not yet been brought against him.
    1. +2
      28 September 2017 09: 47
      But what about billions?
  28. +9
    28 September 2017 09: 30
    Riddle, riddle .... Had this happened to the states, probably there would have been no riddle. They would understand everything on their own skin ....
    If they don’t understand, then there’s no need to explain why many people hate the “tagged” one.
    Let them take it as a fact. And we will take our own. Let them not doubt it.
  29. +6
    28 September 2017 09: 30
    Judah is his real name
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. +7
    28 September 2017 09: 33
    To paraphrase an old American joke:
    "-you have a revolver with one cartridge, before you is Yeltsin and Chubais, who will you shoot at?
    -in Gorbachev three times "
  32. +3
    28 September 2017 09: 38
    But no one considers Yeltsin and his w-environment of hatred ???
  33. +4
    28 September 2017 09: 42
    gave freedom to Eastern Europe!

    Then half of Eastern Europe washed her face with blood.
  34. +2
    28 September 2017 09: 47
    That's when Trump will be able to ruin the United States (it is possible if he grapples seriously with Kim, and as a result - with the PRC), here and love him for health, even though all of America by all known methods.
  35. +5
    28 September 2017 09: 48
    freed his people from fear

    It turns out I was afraid all this time !!!
    and I thought I enjoyed life
  36. +4
    28 September 2017 09: 49
    And again: “I categorically affirm that the collapse of the Soviet Union did not occur as a result of the development of perestroika in the country. To think so would be a major historical mistake. ”

    ... the historical mistake is that they don't judge you, CIA agent ... angry
  37. +1
    28 September 2017 09: 49
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    in the West, puzzled by the hostility in Russia to Gorbachev.
    - It's still put it mildly! Hatred - this is closer to the truth!

    ... even more correctly - hatred and contempt for this henpecked, and even the bribe taker ...
    1. +3
      28 September 2017 10: 28
      Quote: ver_
      even more correctly - hatred and contempt for this henpecked, and even the bribe taker ...

      The henpecked and on Raika, too, the wine hangs, that bitch was still .. (she died a terrible death from cancer ..)

      Oh Russia ...
      Women not only destroy men, but entire countries .. hehe
  38. +1
    28 September 2017 10: 00
    Quote: bddrus
    I completely agree that the blame for the collapse rests with everyone, otherwise they are used to choosing a scapegoat. Gorbachev was weak and not ready to defend his position. Yes, remember how they rallied for Yeltsin-that is, Gorbachev did not have support, and Yeltsin, winged, took power and with the "colleagues" signed the collapse of the union, so that everyone would get a presidential chair. Would the police and Gorbachev’s army support? unlikely, but if supported, then he would quickly be renamed into dictators and those who now hang everything on him would moan about the "co-op" regime

    ... and who did not allow * the labeled * to put the drunk Yeltsin for the state. treason - conspiracy in the Bialowieza Forest - this was a sovereign crime .. * Tagged * cowardly - Gromyko’s mistake (his length) and the victim of a drunk midwife ..
    1. +1
      28 September 2017 11: 34
      During the Bialowieza Gorbachev already left.
  39. +1
    28 September 2017 10: 02
    Gorbachev an interesting shot - the country was ruined by the Yeltsinoids. Well, yes, but where did they come from? And, in general, who anointed Tsar Boris to the kingdom? am

    It was necessary to say with the words of a famous character: "Borisku? To the kingdom? Guilty of death!" am
    1. 0
      28 September 2017 11: 37
      Where did you come from? Yes, Lenin and Stalin gave birth, where else! And the KGB did not just blink, but it helped them!
  40. +3
    28 September 2017 10: 21
    All that Gorbache did-opened the curtain. Gave freedom. Gave a choice. He sincerely wanted to make peace with everyone. But was deceived. Yourself. He loved his country and his fellow citizens. He believed in man and in himself. But man is a lie. A person absorbs evil very quickly. Gorbachev did not know what good and evil were. Rather, he did not know that Good is one, and evil has a million guises. I did not know the Truth. And he opened this Pandora's box without suggesting how much anger and hatred in the Soviet people. In one, he was right. The fact that the USSR rotted from above. Like a dead fish. God Judge Michael. Guardian Angel Michael and his family. Amen.
    1. +2
      28 September 2017 10: 55
      During the meeting with the “Iron Lady,” as Margaret Thatcher was then called, the incredible happened. Here is how the participant of this meeting Yakovlev described this episode in his memoirs “Omut Remembrance”: “The negotiations were sounding until Mikhail Sergeevich pulled out a General Staff card with all the vultures on the table in a narrow composition (I attended) secrecy, testifying that the card is genuine. It depicted the directions of missile attacks on Britain ... The prime minister examined the English cities, which were approached by arrows, but not rockets yet. Gorbachev interrupted the prolonged pause: “Madam Prime Minister, we must end all this, and as soon as possible.” “Yes,” replied Thatcher, somewhat confused. “Http: //sofya1444.livejournal.com/460304.h
      tml
  41. +8
    28 September 2017 10: 34
    many pay attention to what happened already during the collapse, but it is worth remembering what Gorbachev did before, in a country still firmly on its feet. And then tell me if he tried to ruin her.
    I will list the solutions of Misha.
    the destruction of CMEA - the main mechanism opposing the economic isolation of the USSR or the Russian Federation.
    destruction of the Warsaw Pact
    a huge amount of financial abuse at the expense of the state, which amounts to trillions.
    changing the image of the nation instead of respected to shameful, because of which recently the Turks beat our tourists.
    catastrophic scrapping of the country's economy in many directions without replacing with something sane
    entering artificial shortages, creating a huge number of external gifts and debts
    it was under Gorbachev that the most cattle tradition of drinking was created anew — partly the production of high-quality wines, an absurd version of Prohibition, etc.
    legitimization of that layer of hucksters, crooks and bandits, fused with the new party financial elite, which was fought not only by the OBXSS in the USSR, but also in the west by the police and other institutions.
    as a result, the impoverishment of the country and its CMEA neighbors, the growth of chaos that created a bunch of conflicts and claimed millions of non-virtual lives, a catastrophic decline in fertility and increased mortality.
    The consequences of Gorbachev’s actions are several times higher than the results of the Second World War!
    It was he who brought to power cannibals like Chubais or Gaidar, who did not give a damn about those who "did not fit into the market." And yes, a person is just a darling ...
  42. +3
    28 September 2017 10: 41
    Gorbachev and his activities are too early to evaluate. Not enough time has passed.

    Those who read that Gorbachev or Yeltsin destroyed the USSR are fundamentally mistaken. There was not and was not a person on the planet who possessed such power. The scoop was blown away by himself. He went into the sewer. And no one (absolutely no one) did not defend the Soviets. None of those who are pouring mud on Garbachev here called into the hands of the sickle-hammered red banner and did not go out into the street. All blundered "approvals." So blame yourself.

    Was it possible to save the scoop from the inevitable end? Not. It was possible to delay its inglorious end by tightening the nuts for ten years (ala North Korea) and pray for raising oil prices to astronomical 100 bucks per barrel. But this would not save him from death. Socialism and "communism" are not able to feed themselves. This is an axiom. Even the Chinese understood this and allowed capitalism to take off. However, this is another topic.
    1. +4
      28 September 2017 13: 47
      Professor
      Gorbachev and his activities are too early to evaluate. Not enough time has passed.
      Well yes! You evaluate Putin’s activities today, but it’s too early to evaluate Gorbachev’s activities)))) Clowns ...
    2. +1
      28 September 2017 15: 47
      I have no complaints against Gorbachev. I wanted the best, it didn’t work, I lost control.
      1. +2
        29 September 2017 01: 52
        to the driver who threw the wheel, jumped out of the bus, which without control flew into the abyss with passengers, you also have no claims? wassat
    3. +13
      28 September 2017 19: 46
      "Socialism and" communism "are not able to feed themselves. This is an axiom."
      Is there any help from the madhouse?
      1. ogi
        +1
        28 September 2017 22: 41
        Quote: Doliva63
        Is there any help from the madhouse?

        Who? You?
        1. 0
          29 September 2017 06: 57
          Yes, not the one who wrote nonsense about the axiom
          1. ogi
            +1
            29 September 2017 08: 00
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            Who wrote nonsense about the axiom

            Everything is written correctly. Socialism is a synonym for the words "deficit" or "hunger." Depending on the situation. The words prosperity and abundance do not correlate with the word socialism.
            1. +2
              29 September 2017 08: 29
              Quote: ogi
              it is synonymous with deficit or hunger

              Yes?
              to remind you of the famine in the United States?
              Quote: ogi
              The words prosperity and abundance do not correlate with the word socialism.

              my parents were piggy engineers at home, in the refrigerator black caviar was in three-liter jars
              1. ogi
                +1
                29 September 2017 09: 39
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                to remind you of the famine in the United States?

                And in Zimbabwe?
                And here is the USA?
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                in the refrigerator black caviar was in three-liter jars

                Well, we’re all lying.
                Also, is that a sign of affluence?
                Their apartment was rented. There was no summer house, at most a piece of land for food. Machines most likely, if simple engineers, were not there either. Lived from payday to payday.
                Get rid of "wealth."
                1. +1
                  29 September 2017 10: 08
                  Quote: ogi
                  And here is the USA?

                  mowing under a fool, you said that hunger is an integral part of socialism, I brought you an example of a developed capitalist country where there is hunger
                  Quote: ogi
                  Well, we’re all lying.

                  funny, but why do you think I'm lying? !!!!!
                  Quote: ogi
                  Lived from payday to payday.
                  Get rid of "wealth."

                  how do you know how anyone lived if you were not there? !!!
                  Quote: ogi
                  Their apartment was rented.

                  that is, you, in principle, do not know the living conditions in the USSR, but at the same time you undertake to reason
                  1. ogi
                    +1
                    29 September 2017 11: 20
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    hunger is an integral part of socialism, I gave you an example of a developed capitalist country where there is hunger

                    1. The USA during the period of depression was not a developed capitalist country.
                    2. There was no famine in the USA. This is an invention of runet.
                    3. Hunger is not an exclusive feature of socialism alone. Many underdeveloped societies cannot feed their members.
                    After all, what is "socialism"?
                    This is a theocratic society with a slaveholding system of management, built on pseudo-religious principles.
                    What is "developed socialism"?
                    This is a theocratic society with a feudal economy, built on pseudo-religious principles.
                    Those. there is a lot of noise, and the essence is described by the usual classical political economy.
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    how do you know how anyone lived if you were not there? !!!

                    Yeah. Unlike you, long before the collapse of the USSR, I managed to serve urgent.
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    that is, you, in principle, do not know the living conditions in the USSR, but at the same time you undertake to reason

                    Removable, do not hesitate. At the state. Or do you seriously think that the apartments that "gave" were in the property of those to whom they were "given"?
                    It was only then that the "bad democrats" gave immovable property. And from the Bolsheviks figs you will wait. Only if they could take something away.
                    1. 0
                      29 September 2017 12: 00
                      Quote: ogi
                      . The USA during the period of depression was not a developed capitalist country.

                      fool
                      Quote: ogi
                      There was no famine in the USA. This is an invention of runet.

                      Well, yes, and the civil war was for the abolition of slavery
                      Quote: ogi
                      Yeah. Unlike you, long before the collapse of the USSR, I managed to serve urgent.

                      then for what purpose are you lying
                      Quote: ogi
                      Removable, do not hesitate. At the state. Or do you seriously think that the apartments that "gave" were in the property of those to whom they were "given"?

                      if you lived then you are well aware that you are disingenuous
                      Quote: ogi
                      And from the Bolsheviks you will come. Only if they could take something away.
    4. +4
      29 September 2017 06: 57
      Quote: professor
      Socialism and "communism" are not able to feed themselves. This is an axiom.

      and where is such idiocy written? !!!
      to substantiate something in a condition or the main thing to spoil the air ?!
      1. ogi
        0
        29 September 2017 08: 20
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        the main thing is to spoil the air

        In your likeness?
        1. 0
          1 October 2017 20: 10
          Quote: ogi
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          the main thing is to spoil the air

          In your likeness?

          Do not argue with them. Useless. They love komunyak so much that they are ready to drop everything and move to a prosperous North Korea, a Cuban factory or a Chinese collective farm. They really will not have the Internet and other other bourgeois excesses there, but these are already details. wink
          On the road, prosperous North Korea.
  43. +4
    28 September 2017 10: 44
    While he is still alive - it is necessary to show justice and punish him for life. And it turns out that you can ruin the country, make people poor and then live happily in the West and still say from there that he is not to blame.
  44. ogi
    +1
    28 September 2017 11: 02
    Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
    Hatred of Russians towards Gorbachev in the West is considered a “mystery”

    Well, let's say, part of the Russians. Those that "the owner" is easier and better. They feed and dress a little fig, but for free. Work, again, is not necessary, just go to work. Their physiological reasons are constantly decreasing. And soon enough only those who perceive Gorbachev with gratitude will remain. Better a terrible end than horror without an end.
    1. +1
      29 September 2017 15: 12
      99% of Russians, regardless of their political preferences, have the same negative attitude towards Mecheny. Because a traitor in Russia is always worse than the enemy. Your dreams that they will all die out and only the lackeys of the West and parasites will remain untenable. Parasites can not create benefits, they can only live off the body, die on their own.
      1. ogi
        0
        29 September 2017 22: 33
        Quote: Pissarro
        99% of Russians, regardless of their political preferences, have the same negative attitude towards Mecheny.

        Opinion polls show other numbers.
        Quote: Pissarro
        Parasites can not create benefits, they can only live off the body, die on their own.

        Are you talking about the Bolsheviks?
        1. +1
          30 September 2017 08: 12
          Quote: ogi
          Opinion polls show other numbers.

          numbers in the studio
  45. +3
    28 September 2017 11: 08
    Quote: Love is
    All that Gorbache did-opened the curtain. Gave freedom. Gave a choice. He sincerely wanted to make peace with everyone. But was deceived. Yourself. He loved his country and his fellow citizens. He believed in man and in himself. But man is a lie. A person absorbs evil very quickly. Gorbachev did not know what good and evil were. Rather, he did not know that Good is one, and evil has a million guises. I did not know the Truth. And he opened this Pandora's box without suggesting how much anger and hatred in the Soviet people. In one, he was right. The fact that the USSR rotted from above. Like a dead fish. God Judge Michael. Guardian Angel Michael and his family. Amen.

    Citizen you are mistaken. Did you live at that time? What freedom, what curtain?
    1. -1
      28 September 2017 12: 20
      Dear, maybe in Russia everything is really so bad that such a powerful nostalgia for the USSR? Come to us in Belarus.
  46. +2
    28 September 2017 11: 16
    Quote: professor
    Gorbachev and his activities are too early to evaluate. Not enough time has passed.

    Those who read that Gorbachev or Yeltsin destroyed the USSR are fundamentally mistaken. There was not and was not a person on the planet who possessed such power. The scoop was blown away by himself. He went into the sewer. And no one (absolutely no one) did not defend the Soviets. None of those who are pouring mud on Garbachev here called into the hands of the sickle-hammered red banner and did not go out into the street. All blundered "approvals." So blame yourself.

    Was it possible to save the scoop from the inevitable end? Not. It was possible to delay its inglorious end by tightening the nuts for ten years (ala North Korea) and pray for raising oil prices to astronomical 100 bucks per barrel. But this would not save him from death. Socialism and "communism" are not able to feed themselves. This is an axiom. Even the Chinese understood this and allowed capitalism to take off. However, this is another topic.

    ... Putin pulled the country out of the abyss ..- no need to Gorbatov otmazyvat-against Putin's clinical
  47. +2
    28 September 2017 11: 20
    Quote: sauvage
    While he is still alive - it is necessary to show justice and punish him for life. And it turns out that you can ruin the country, make people poor and then live happily in the West and still say from there that he is not to blame.

    ..on his stake, for the edification of others, whose Schaub was not accustomed to reign so who took control of the scepter of power ..
    1. +2
      28 September 2017 12: 38
      funny.
      All the rulers of Russia, during whose reign the territories were added, remain in the people's memory good (strong, worthy, harsh, but fair), no matter how they try to denigrate, defame them after their death,
      But those who lost territory - at least you won’t hear anything good, except that some details (I liked kitties, conditionally)
      From this statistical point of view)) neither the Gorbachev nor Yeltsin will get a bright memory of descendants.
      The Gorbachev Foundation and the Yeltsin Center will fall apart in the near future, the first of those mentioned almost immediately after its founder dies, the second - as soon as the GDP that resolves this matter (ugliness) goes to retire in gratitude for the succession.
  48. 0
    28 September 2017 12: 06
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    just the collapse of the USSR terribly affected economic activity

    Congratulations, noticed.
    The collapse of the USSR began in 1984. It became especially noticeable by 1987.
    All business agreements - intra-union, international - were carried out through the organs of the USSR, well, of course, control.
    And here the USSR becomes illegitimate on the basis of the absence of treaties defining its existence.
    You notice that the picture is the same, only in profile. And the details appear.
    Which empty cries just blur. Accidentally or intentionally?
    1. +3
      28 September 2017 18: 26
      Quote: sogdy
      The collapse of the USSR began in 1984. It became especially noticeable by 1987

      The collapse of the country began after the reform of 61 years, when market prices became higher than store prices and a trade mafia began to form, which was sold by the state. products at market prices. By the year 80, the mafia had completely taken shape, into an all-encompassing system. Even Brezhnev’s daughter was engaged in buying and speculating in gold with her wife Shchelokova. Just think - the daughter of the Secretary General and the wife of the Minister of Internal Affairs are engaged in speculation. This is Ales, the head of the fish has rotted, the USSR could not help but fall apart. The Uzbek business was only the tip of the iceberg - the elite in the country has completely decayed, the collapse was not inevitable.
      1. +2
        28 September 2017 19: 35
        Quote: alexsipin
        The collapse of the country began after the reform of 61 years

        the collapse began with the 20th Congress, it was there that the first stone was knocked out of the foundation
      2. +5
        28 September 2017 19: 49
        In general, you are almost right with the date, but it’s not right to give out consequences for the reasons.
  49. +2
    28 September 2017 12: 13
    Hatred of Russians towards Gorbachev in the West is considered a “mystery”

    They will understand this when Muslims in Germany take power and make Merkel another Prophet.
  50. +2
    28 September 2017 12: 15
    Quote: Uncle Lee
    in the West, puzzled by the hostility in Russia to Gorbachev.
    - It's still put it mildly! Hatred - this is closer to the truth!

    Because of this ugly creature, I served for a whole year at the Central Exhibition Hall, in Czechoslovakia, and returned to the Union, to Far Eastern Military District. And why did he not die in infancy, and even better at birth ?!
    1. 0
      28 September 2017 22: 06
      Ha ha ha In the Czech Republic it is certainly better. "but this is our homeland, son." laughing
  51. +1
    28 September 2017 12: 15
    Gorbachev’s merit is that during the collapse, significantly fewer people died than, for example, in Yugoslavia. The fate of the USSR was predetermined back in 1929. if a country cannot feed itself with bread, then the economic policy of this country is worthless.
    1. ogi
      0
      28 September 2017 22: 37
      Quote: alexhol
      The fate of the USSR was predetermined back in 1929

      I would say in 1922, at the time of its formation. A state created on bayonets by force will not last long.
      1. 0
        29 September 2017 06: 59
        Quote: ogi
        A state created on bayonets by force will not last long.

        can you name at least one European state that was not created with bayonets? It doesn’t even make sense to talk about America
  52. +1
    28 September 2017 12: 30
    I wish I could find out which jackals actually gave him votes
  53. +2
    28 September 2017 12: 32
    In general, in my memory, the USSR is a country where everything was limited, everything was in short supply. The state is not for the people, but vice versa. Who is the most nostalgic? Former military functionaries, store managers and other lazy people Yes, guys, your time is up wink
  54. +6
    28 September 2017 12: 34
    Quote: alexhol
    Gorbachev’s merit is that during the collapse, significantly fewer people died than, for example, in Yugoslavia. The fate of the USSR was predetermined back in 1929. if a country cannot feed itself with bread, then the economic policy of this country is worthless.
    Do you even remember the USSR? Not the late Gorbachev era, but the time of Brezhnev? Or are you 18 years old and you cannot know what happened in the Union?
    1. +4
      28 September 2017 13: 04
      yes)) I suspect that many of those writing here were born in the 80s and read everything that was in the USSR on Wikipedia (relatively speaking)
      lol
      1. +1
        28 September 2017 13: 27
        As a child, I saw the times, so to speak, of the “late Brezhnev”. And I remember all this insanity perfectly. I then lived in the regional center, where they made (and still make) the famous condensed milk, real doctor’s sausage, etc. But my parents couldn’t buy any of this then. Not because there was no money (father is an officer of the internal troops, mother is a teacher at school), but because everything went to Moscow and Leningrad - the titular cities of the Soviet system. Well, okay, that’s why everyone at that time kept pigs in their yard, but here’s the problem: it was impossible to buy compound feed, and it was impossible to feed them with grain from their own plot - so it’s only 4 acres - there are not many potatoes and beets, but they didn’t give any more land. They fed us bread: no more than two loaves per hand. The queues are kilometer long. There were queues for everything possible: school uniforms, shoes, vegetables, fruits... Refrigerated slides were not needed at that time: milk was carried out in boxes and everything was sorted out by the end of the day. In the so-called queue you had to “stand” for a car, good furniture, building materials, etc. Auto parts are a completely separate topic. In order to buy, for example, a battery, you had to be a member of a community of car enthusiasts or hand over a certain amount of honey and rabbit skins to the state (this is how I earned money for sneakers). What about the tires? Did anyone know before that it could be in winter? In general, there is no need to la-la. Thank God this idiocy is over.
        1. +4
          28 September 2017 16: 28
          There was business, but there was also education and medicine, where doctors and teachers treated, not managers. My mother, a teacher, was able to raise three sons on a teacher's salary... And all three received a normal higher education. And not for exorbitant payment. And I agree about things like cars and household appliances.
          1. -1
            28 September 2017 16: 57
            There were not enough schools: all schools in the regional center taught in two shifts, with about 40 people in primary classes. Medicine: both the clinic and the hospital were located in pre-revolutionary buildings. The line to see the surgeon (I remember breaking my arm) was all day, I don’t want to remember the quality at all: my father had a banal appendicitis - the drunk surgeon forgot a tampon. My dad almost died from blood poisoning. At the only pharmacy there is a queue leading out to the street. But there were also bright moments: Dynamo Minsk was the USSR champion in 1982. Sports were popular among both adults and children, and sports sections were ALL free.
            1. +2
              28 September 2017 18: 10
              Quote: alexhol
              The line to see the surgeon (I remember breaking my arm) all day

              Mom tried to make an appointment with a therapist, but they actually made an appointment in 13 days
              Quote: alexhol
              I don’t want to think about quality at all

              oooh this is a separate song today
              Quote: alexhol
              . At the only pharmacy there is a queue leading out to the street.

              Now there are no queues, like vitamins that used to be given for change are now 500 rubles
              1. ogi
                0
                28 September 2017 22: 34
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                oooh this is a separate song today

                Apparently for this reason, and also because of bad and low-quality food (either it was in the USSR), the life expectancy of the population is increasing from year to year.
            2. +2
              29 September 2017 09: 52
              Now they forget the same tampons and scalpels.... My mother went to the ophthalmologist.... It turned out that she was a recent graduate... So he asked her why she didn’t read about her sore on the internet.... fool Granny is 77....
          2. ogi
            +1
            28 September 2017 22: 28
            Quote: Russian quilted jacket
            And all three received a normal higher education.

            Well, try to get a job anywhere in the world with a diploma of a “normal higher education”, other than as a floor polisher. What about the diploma and the knowledge acquired there?
            Quote: Russian quilted jacket
            medicine where doctors treated

            Take an interest in the average life expectancy in the USSR. Maybe then you’ll stop writing about “good medicine in the USSR.”
            1. +2
              29 September 2017 07: 27
              Quote: ogi
              Maybe then you’ll stop writing about “good medicine in the USSR.”

              maybe you’ll stop writing nonsense and compare round with green?
            2. +2
              29 September 2017 09: 34
              Quote: Well, try to get a job anywhere in the world with a diploma of “normal higher education”, other than as a floor polisher. What about the diploma and the knowledge acquired there?


              My brother with a diploma works at SCHLUMBERG, before that he worked at NALCO..., the second works at SHELL, and not as floor polishers, but in positions like superintendents... One was offered a job with the Saudis. Specialties: mechanical engineers. We learned English ourselves. Enough? This is old education, not today's dropouts.
              1. ogi
                0
                29 September 2017 09: 45
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                My brother with a diploma works at SCHLUMBERG, before that he worked at NALCO..., the second works at SHELL, and not as floor polishers, but in positions like superintendents... Is that enough?

                You fantasize more. For qualified work they need a diploma (license). To do this, they must obtain an international diploma or confirm their conscience. What does RE-EDUCATION mean? It's easier and cheaper than learning from scratch. But this does not mean that you can work with a Soviet diploma.
                1. +1
                  29 September 2017 12: 27
                  If this doesn’t fit into your worldview, then that’s your problem. The one who works at Schlumberger also completed courses in Paris, as well as in the States, and has an international diploma. When he comes, we’ll open a new thread if I don’t forget, to rub your nose into this diploma... And break the stereotype of your aplomb.
                  1. +2
                    29 September 2017 12: 47
                    But he retrained on the basis of his Russian diploma. The second one started working on Sakhalin 2 and then further. According to your own diploma.... So if the specialist is satisfied, they put the device on the diplomas.... Just to confirm. And having the knowledge, it turned out to be not at all difficult for the first one.
                    1. ogi
                      0
                      29 September 2017 12: 57
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      That's it to confirm. And having the knowledge, it turned out to be not at all difficult for the first one.

                      Did he receive them at the institute? Due to "the best education in the world"?
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      The second one started working on Sakhalin 2 and then further. According to his own diploma.... So if the specialist is satisfied, they put the device on the diplomas....

                      That is, he did not come from the street and did not come with a diploma. I would like to see it if it were from the street and with a diploma. This is how it happens in 99,9% of cases.
                      1. 0
                        29 September 2017 13: 09
                        So they came from the street to the competition. Either first or second according to the resume. We didn't have any thieves' relatives. And they gained knowledge at the institute. And they passed the competition. The first is the oldest of 150 applicants. And it was mostly younger people who passed through, and some even with CTS degrees. The second one went to the competition three times... Passed through knowledge. And where could he get them? After all, most of the competitions put pressure on theory.
                    2. ogi
                      0
                      29 September 2017 22: 37
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      So they came from the street to the competition. Either first or second according to the resume. We didn't have any thieves' relatives.

                      What surprises you? Why did they hire people with Soviet diplomas for the project called “Sakhalin 2”? What, were there other applicants?
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      And they gained knowledge at the institute.

                      As I understand it, you yourself did not study at a Soviet university.
                  2. ogi
                    0
                    29 September 2017 13: 21
                    Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                    Since he works at Schlumberger, he has also completed courses in Paris, as well as in the States, and has an international diploma. When he comes, we’ll open a new thread if I don’t forget, to rub your nose into this diploma... And break the stereotype of your aplomb.

                    Are you generally adequate?
                    Write everything to confirm not yours, but MY words, after which he was also going to poke me with this diploma. No, there are still a lot of non-adquats.
            3. 0
              29 September 2017 13: 07
              And further. Take an interest in the topic of the Russian Cross regarding demographics. and look at the years.
        2. +2
          29 September 2017 02: 51
          Well, what does this have to do with the hunchback? He brought Borka and the red-haired voucher to power, ruined the country and now Uncle Vova has to put it back together?
  55. +1
    28 September 2017 13: 47
    This is true. I live in Corsica and when I tell the locals that Gorbachev is, they are very surprised. Western propaganda
    1. +2
      28 September 2017 14: 16
      Oh, it's a pity we missed the delicious word. Then simply, Gorbachev is not a good person
      1. ogi
        0
        28 September 2017 22: 31
        Quote: Stas 2REP
        Oh, it's a pity we missed the delicious word. Then simply, Gorbachev is not a good person

        You live in Corsica only because HE allowed you to live there. Otherwise, you could easily plow the field backwards six days a week for food. Somewhere in the middle zone. Therefore, we must also carefully look at who is “not a good person.”
        1. +5
          28 September 2017 22: 42
          Quote: ogi
          You live in Corsica only because HE allowed you to live there.

          who? this idiot? part-time Judas?
          All of Europe and the USA lived off the resources and finances pumped out after the collapse of the USSR.
          Quote: ogi
          Otherwise, you could easily plow the field backwards six days a week for food.

          But is it mean to plow for the benefit of the people, even on a tractor, even on a tank?!
          Quote: ogi
          Somewhere in the middle zone.

          It's beautiful here in the middle zone!!!
          1. ogi
            +1
            28 September 2017 23: 09
            Quote: Stroporez
            All of Europe and the USA lived off the resources and finances pumped out after the collapse of the USSR.

            Have you tried to think? What could be siphoned out of a poor country that didn’t even have enough money to buy food for its population abroad?
            1. +4
              28 September 2017 23: 19
              Quote: ogi
              Have you tried to think?

              let me redirect!
              Think about where the world's second largest economy suddenly went? Where did the money from Sberbank and other affiliates go?
              What breakthrough did geyropa and mattresses make to the impoverishment of the population of the USSR? If you are at that stage of childhood development when the potty is the only measure of existence, it is difficult to understand the paradigms of world development.
              But everything turns out to be simpler, even a pot, why do global crises occur?
              It will be funny if you answer. wink
              1. ogi
                +1
                28 September 2017 23: 35
                Quote: Stroporez
                where did the world's second largest economy suddenly go?

                Japanese? Hasn't gone anywhere. Still there. Only now it’s the third one.
                The USSR's GDP in 1990 was $778.4 billion. and the USSR ranked 7th in the world in this indicator. The share of the USSR's GDP in the world was 3.4%.
                GDP per capita in the USSR in 1990 was equal to $2696, ranked 85th in the world and was at the same level as GDP per capita in Brazil ($2687), GDP per capita in Malaysia ($2612), GDP per capita in Chile ($2609). GDP per capita in the USSR was less than the world average GDP per capita ($4303) by $1607.
                1. +4
                  28 September 2017 23: 40
                  Quote: ogi
                  Japanese? Hasn't gone anywhere. Still there. Only now

                  Scoring rebound))))
                  Only at that time the USSR was the second economy in the world!
                  1. ogi
                    +1
                    29 September 2017 00: 06
                    Quote: Stroporez
                    Only at that time the USSR was the second economy in the world!

                    Learn the materiel. Then you won't write such nonsense.

                    In addition, GDP per capita in the USSR in 1990 was 62,7% of the world average. And in 2016 in Russia, 88,9% of the same global average. Those. The standard of living of the Russian population has increased. And it increased very, very decently.
                    To make it clear what we are talking about, today countries such as Ecuador, Peru, and Suriname have per capita GDP of 62,7% of the world average. This is how the USSR lived in 1990. Even Turkmenistan today lives relatively richer than the USSR lived, 66,0% of the world average. Not to mention the Balts or Kazakhs, for example.
                    1. +2
                      29 September 2017 00: 26
                      Quote: ogi
                      In addition, GDP per capita in the USSR in 1990 was 62,7% of the world average. And in 2016 in Russia, 88,9% of the same global average. Those. The standard of living of the Russian population has increased. And it increased very, very decently.

                      Gee-gee!) If the Russian Federation's GDP level is now 1,8% of the world level, how is that?
                      Quote: ogi
                      Learn the materiel. Then you won't write such nonsense.

                      It’s already night, tomorrow I’ll tell you the pace of development of the USSR and the level of GDP for those years.
                      sit while you study the Medvedoputov’s manuals, and at the same time how much they will pay for the mattresses of the withdrawn money in the federal quarter of next year.
                      Just study more carefully, if the people see less, they will be offended by you. laughing
                      1. +2
                        29 September 2017 00: 33
                        "...Gee-gee!) If now the Russian Federation's GDP level is 1,8% of the world's level, how's that?...."

                        And so.... World GDP has grown a lot since then... China’s growth alone is worth it.... and Russia is the USSR minus 14 union republics....


                        Learn the materiel...gee-gee
                      2. ogi
                        0
                        29 September 2017 00: 43
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        if the Russian Federation’s GDP level is now 1,8% of the world’s level, how is that?

                        No way. This indicator shouldn’t interest you at all. Your job is to be interested in GDP per capita. It's enough.
                        Quote: Stroporez
                        Tomorrow I will tell you the pace of development of the USSR and the level of GDP for those years.

                        Will you have time to “draw” it overnight?
                    2. 0
                      29 September 2017 02: 00
                      Tell an anecdote about wealthy Balts living in the Baltics. They will laugh. Or they will cry. wassat
                      1. ogi
                        0
                        29 September 2017 08: 05
                        Quote: Pissarro
                        Tell me an anecdote about the richly living Balts in the Baltics.

                        What else will you deny? Does the sun not rise every day in the morning for you either?
                        They write all sorts of nonsense just to write something.
                      2. ogi
                        0
                        30 September 2017 18: 01
                        Quote: Pissarro
                        Tell me an anecdote about the richly living Balts in the Baltics

                        According to data from the Allianz group for 2016. in the ranking of accumulated wealth per capita, the average Estonian is “worth” as 2,71, a Latvian as 2,44 and a Lithuanian as 2,05 of a Russian.
                        It may not be rich. It depends on what you compare it to.
            2. +4
              29 September 2017 02: 14
              In the late USSR, did someone starve from lack of food? Victim of wretched Western propaganda
              1. ogi
                +1
                29 September 2017 08: 11
                Quote: Pissarro
                In the late USSR, did someone starve from lack of food?

                Everyone was hungry to one degree or another. Because what they ate back then could not be called food. Men did not live to see 60, and the population as a whole looked old at 50.
                By the way, I didn’t go hungry during the late USSR, even earlier. When I served in the army. For 2 years, the diet consisted exclusively of rotten sauerkraut in all forms, processed secondary bread (like this, white-gray-black) and water. And only once every six months, during inspections, were they given human food. But it ended with the check.
                Quote: Pissarro
                Victim of wretched Western propaganda

                This is how you sign up.
                1. +4
                  29 September 2017 08: 31
                  Quote: ogi
                  Everyone was hungry to one degree or another. Because what they ate back then could not be called food.

                  homopdi, what kind of nonsense, you communicate with people who were “starving” then, are you going to tell ME about this?!!!!!
                  1. +3
                    29 September 2017 09: 44
                    Yeah... The three of us at my mother’s, well, we were so hungry, so hungry... I don’t know how we grew up without dystrophies... But 70-80 kg each... The boy was given a baby and he repeats. I ate normally in the army. They even gave us red fish.
                    And he will tell... That's what it says in the manual...
                    how in one blog a Lvov resident said that old people told him about the Holodomor in Lvov... LVOVYAN, Karl.... I didn’t know when Lemberg was annexed... And only curses when the date was announced to him...
                    1. ogi
                      +1
                      29 September 2017 12: 03
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      The three of us at my mother’s, well, we were so hungry, so hungry... I don’t know how we grew up without dystrophies... But 70-80 kg each..

                      I can imagine what kind of rubbish you ate. How now, do your insides not ache? Give it time, all this will make itself felt.
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      I ate normally in the army. They even gave us red fish.

                      This is a lie. Although, if somewhere in the Far East on an island where there was nothing else to eat, then maybe, probably.
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      what the old people told him

                      It is not interesting to me. I don't retell other people's conversations.
                      1. +1
                        29 September 2017 12: 32
                        I'm 50. I have no illnesses. Especially the digestive tract. We ate normally. And the meat is normal, from the collective farm market and vegetables. And further. Mom is 77. In your opinion, she should be under the grass. And she’s still chopping wood. And how did she live so long from such rubbish? And after. My grandmother passed away at 84... And I can’t imagine how she lived. And about lying. I repeat, in the army the food was normal. The unit commander came for lunch and sat down at the first table available, and woe to the cooks if the soup was thin. The chief medical officer himself came to our unit to take a sample. And every day...
                        PS. As I understand it, there are two opinions, yours and the wrong one. Change the manual. Otherwise everything is according to the template.
                      2. 0
                        29 September 2017 12: 57
                        Quote: ogi
                        I can imagine what kind of rubbish you ate

                        Well, tell everyone what you imagine there
                        For example, I ate quality foods
                    2. ogi
                      0
                      30 September 2017 18: 07
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      We ate normally. And the meat is normal, from the collective farm market and vegetables.

                      I “like” these “memories”. First he writes that his mother (who is single) had three of them. And then he tells how they shoveled meat and vegetables from the market.
                      What was your mother's job? Didn’t you run an underground workshop for an hour?
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      And how did she live so long from such rubbish?

                      Not everyone is so lucky. However, we must focus on typical phenomena, and not on exceptions.
                      Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                      The unit commander came for lunch and sat down at the first table he came across.

                      Don't know. I only saw the commander in the dining room during training exercises. With inspectors. On this occasion, a special cook even took over temporarily. And so, even the duty officer ate separately from the “mass” and on “special rations”.
                  2. ogi
                    0
                    29 September 2017 09: 52
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    homopdi, what nonsense, you communicate with people who were “starving” then, are you going to tell ME about this?

                    Will. Because stuffing your belly with all sorts of rubbish is not called “eating.” Some people don’t understand this; it’s their lifelong “style.” But in fact it's called "eating." It was still possible to find something to eat in the USSR, after searching hard. But eating, no, that was bad. Either it wasn’t there, or it was very expensive and beyond my means.
                    But man is not a beast. And eating doesn't suit him. But in the USSR he was often forced to do this. For a whole range of reasons.
                    You can consider “grub” (not food) a sign of well-being. It is your right. Everyone has their own level.
                    PS.
                    Bread and potatoes (second bread) are quite harmful to health. The same goes for cheap varieties of pasta. I have already written to you above about life expectancy in the USSR and the appearance of its aged population. It was she, the Soviet grub, who “tried.”
                    1. +2
                      29 September 2017 10: 15
                      Quote: ogi
                      Will. Because to fill your belly with all sorts of rubbish

                      they are stuffed with rubbish now, but in the West before the Soviet guests it was like before China, even simple soda consisted of REAL SYRUP and not “stinker” with paint
                      I don’t need 100 varieties of sausage, a dozen are enough, as was the case in the Soviet Union, BUT FROM MEAT and WITHOUT CHEMICALS
                      and milk cannot be stored for weeks; by lunchtime it MUST go sour
                      so don’t treat me boy and don’t argue about things that you have never seen with those who have used them
                      1. ogi
                        0
                        29 September 2017 11: 26
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and in the West, before the Soviet guests, like before China, even simple soda consisted of REAL SYRUP and not “stinker” with paint

                        Who told you this? Yes, syrup was part of the “mixture” that was used to load the machine guns. But he was not alone there.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        I don’t need 100 varieties of sausage, a dozen are enough, as was the case in the Soviet Union, BUT FROM MEAT and WITHOUT CHEMICALS

                        At least read the appendices to Soviet GOSTs. Because products according to GOST standards were made in special workshops for a special contingent. And your engineer parents were not included in this contingent. But the rest of the products were made using these same applications. And what was there? Only the meat was bad.
                        Once again I urge you to look at the life expectancy of the population of the USSR. This is a very important and objective indicator. And no GOSTs are needed here.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        so don't treat me boy

                        Thanks for the compliment.
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and don’t argue about things that you have never seen with those who have used them

                        Apparently you are one of those who “don’t care about feeding a horse.”
                    2. +1
                      29 September 2017 15: 20
                      This is written by a person from the Western world of fast food, who is 90 percent obese, where everyone stuffs their bellies with rubbish and only wealthy citizens buy at high prices what is called organic food, which grew without tons of chemicals and which grew in any garden in the USSR and was available to everyone
                      1. ogi
                        +1
                        29 September 2017 22: 38
                        Quote: Pissarro
                        and what grew in any garden in the USSR and was available to everyone

                        Yeah. People didn’t live to see 60 from such “good food.”
            3. +3
              29 September 2017 07: 29
              Quote: ogi
              Have you tried to think?

              Yes, as the person wrote everything correctly, at the moment of the collapse of the USSR, the West got into another crisis and, as always, crawled out on someone else’s back
              1. ogi
                0
                29 September 2017 08: 16
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                The West has fallen into another crisis

                The cyclical crisis of the bourgeois type economy is generally a positive phenomenon and has a beneficial effect on it. This is as inevitable an event as night after day. Therefore, you cannot get into a cyclical crisis.
                1. +1
                  29 September 2017 08: 33
                  Quote: ogi
                  This is as inevitable an event as night after day. Therefore, you cannot get into a cyclical crisis.

                  You can name ways out of crises, then we’ll talk about the good
                  1. ogi
                    0
                    29 September 2017 10: 10
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Can you name ways to overcome crises?

                    Should I post a treatise on this topic right here?
                    1. +1
                      29 September 2017 12: 41
                      Post it. I'm already looking at delusions of grandeur laughing
                      1. ogi
                        0
                        29 September 2017 22: 39
                        Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                        Post it.

                        Should I write the account number where to send the money now?
            4. 0
              29 September 2017 11: 17
              It’s possible, and they pumped it out completely. All sorts of "Khodorkovskys"...
        2. +3
          29 September 2017 07: 28
          Quote: ogi
          you could easily plow a field backwards six days a week for food.

          listen, aren't you tired?!!!
          Do you remember the crunch of the French bread?
          1. ogi
            0
            29 September 2017 12: 05
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            listen, aren't you tired?!!!

            What's not boring? Denounce your “Soviet paradise”, which was more like a zone?
            No, I'm not tired of it. And don't get tired, don't dream
            1. +4
              29 September 2017 12: 37
              Quote: ogi
              Denounce your “Soviet paradise”, which was more like a zone?

              Goebbels meat Yes What a fucking zone if they lived without bars on the windows and armored doors, and the cops walked around with a cucumber in a holster instead of a pistol. The goal was not to punish, but to re-educate a person. The system was law enforcement, not punitive.
              The communists were afraid to shed blood, but in 1991 it was necessary to kill the ebony and judge Misha.
              1. +2
                29 September 2017 13: 00
                Quote: Stroporez
                and the cops walked around with a cucumber in a holster instead of a pistol.

                We had an emergency at a school at a disco, a fight with a knife, the whole city of the capital of the Union Republic was all over the city, now it wouldn’t even make it to the last page of the newspaper
              2. ogi
                +1
                29 September 2017 22: 43
                Quote: Stroporez
                if you lived without bars on the windows and armored doors

                Have you ever seen the state border of the USSR? That's what they were, bars and armored doors. Centralized.
                Quote: Stroporez
                The goal was not to punish, but to re-educate people.

                Yes Yes. If a person is shot, he will immediately be re-educated. The nonsense you write is amazing.
                Quote: Stroporez
                The communists were afraid to shed blood, but in 1991 it was necessary to kill the ebony and judge Misha.

                Then we would have had another famine and millions of casualties. You probably wouldn't have survived.
            2. +1
              29 September 2017 12: 42
              I hear the voice of Navalny and his comrades... and Misha two percent. wassat
              1. 0
                29 September 2017 12: 59
                And ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... I don’t really know how to live on without jamon and croissants wassat
                1. ogi
                  0
                  29 September 2017 22: 45
                  Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                  I really don’t know how to live without jamon and croissants

                  What is it, you can eat it. But try not to eat bread and potatoes. And the pasta is cheap. Because this is not food, but grub. And all diseases come from food.
                  1. +1
                    29 September 2017 23: 07
                    [B] [/ b]
                    Quote: ogi
                    Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                    I really don’t know how to live without jamon and croissants

                    What is it, you can eat it. But try not to eat bread and potatoes. And the pasta is cheap. Because this is not food, but grub. And all diseases come from food.



                    Have you decided to starve him to death?...


                    P.S. and pasta is a thing...
                    1. ogi
                      0
                      30 September 2017 11: 05
                      Quote: Gransasso
                      and pasta is a thing...

                      The paste is made from high quality raw materials. This is not cheap pasta.

                      A couple of years ago, I heard one of the politicians, if I’m not mistaken, Zhirinovsky. He proposed banning the sale of cheap bread and products made from low-grade raw materials in Russia. Like cheap pasta and stuff. Motivating this precisely on medical grounds. But somehow the topic quickly faded. And now nothing is heard about it.
                      1. +2
                        30 September 2017 12: 07
                        Quote: ogi
                        A couple of years ago, I heard one of the politicians, if I’m not mistaken, Zhirinovsky. He proposed banning the sale of cheap bread and products made from low-grade raw materials in Russia

                        What do the Bolsheviks have to do with it?
                        Under the Bolsheviks, there were just GOSTs.
                        From your texts it is clear that you simply hate socialism and Soviet power. It follows from this that it is impossible to convince you, and it is not necessary.
                        I will note one circumstance: socialism and Soviet power were built on MAN, and capitalism turns a person into a consuming animal. And let me remind you that Soviet power was very peace-loving and humane, unlike the imperialists who started endless wars and looked at the world as a colony .
                  2. +1
                    30 September 2017 08: 14
                    Quote: ogi
                    But try not to eat bread and potatoes

                    no words needed fool
                    1. ogi
                      0
                      30 September 2017 11: 06
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      no words needed

                      But don’t limit yourself.
                2. ogi
                  0
                  30 September 2017 18: 23
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  Under the Bolsheviks, there were just GOSTs.

                  Were. For special contingent. And for ordinary stores there were Appendices to GOSTs. It was according to these applications that food was produced for the population.
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  From your texts it is clear that you simply hate socialism and Soviet power.

                  And you?
                  How else can one relate to the government, which, although not the most advanced and outstanding country in the world (Russia), but quite moving not far from them, has made a complete standstill (USSR)? Moreover, the population has almost halved. I managed partly on my own. And partly by the forces of foreigners.
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  socialism and Soviet power were built on MAN

                  "Socialism" was built on hatred. Hatred towards dissenters. Both in the USSR and abroad. A typical pseudo-religious totalitarian sect.
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  Let me remind you that Soviet power was very peace-loving and humane

                  Millions and millions starved to death, shot, rotted in camps, is this peace and humanity?
                  Quote: Stroporez
                  starting endless wars and looking at the world as a colony.

                  During the period of its existence (if you look starting from the RSFSR), the USSR managed to attack all of its neighbors except Turkey and Korea. Some even several times. And he didn’t even attack his neighbors, for example, Bulgaria.
                  1. +1
                    30 September 2017 18: 31
                    Quote: ogi
                    During the period of its existence (if you look starting from the RSFSR), the USSR managed to attack all of its neighbors except Turkey and Korea

                    Quote: ogi
                    And he didn’t even attack his neighbors, for example, Bulgaria.

                    Listen, there is a limit to everything. PROVE these assertions of yours. Facts "in the studio"
                    Quote: ogi
                    "Socialism" was built on hatred. Hatred towards dissenters. Both in the USSR and abroad. A typical pseudo-religious totalitarian sect.

                    Reading your comments, I see in you a stupid, animal HATE. Maybe calm down?
                    Quote: ogi
                    Moreover, the population has almost halved. I managed partly on my own. And partly by the forces of foreigners.

                    Facts, facts again. Not just “spitting with hatred,” but facts. Do you have anything to refute this with?
                  2. 0
                    30 September 2017 19: 17
                    Quote: ogi
                    Were. For special contingent. And for ordinary stores there were Appendices to GOSTs. It was according to these applications that food was produced for the population.

                    Excuse me, but who did you work under the Bolsheviks?!
                    Quote: ogi
                    "Socialism" was built on hatred. Hatred towards dissenters.

                    Are you the one who just remembered Macarthyism?
                    Quote: ogi
                    Millions and millions starved to death, shot, rotted in camps, is this peace and humanity?

                    Can you tell me how many people died, for example, in England during the enclosure or from famine in India?!
                    By the way, can you remind me WHO invented concentration camps?!!!!!
                    Quote: ogi
                    During the period of its existence (if you look starting from the RSFSR), the USSR managed to attack all of its neighbors except Turkey and Korea.

                    YAAAAAAAAA
                    and list everyone who was weakly attacked?!!!!
                    maybe to Romania or Bulgaria, or maybe to Poland at 22?!!!!
              2. ogi
                0
                29 September 2017 23: 09
                Quote: Russian quilted jacket
                I hear a voice

                When you start hearing voices, you should immediately contact a special doctor. Don't post crap on websites.
            3. +1
              29 September 2017 12: 59
              Quote: ogi
              What's not boring? Denounce your “Soviet paradise”, which was more like a zone?

              tired of arguing with a blind man who criticizes a painting
            4. 0
              29 September 2017 15: 23
              How can you get tired of paid propaganda work in the Czech Republic?
  56. +4
    28 September 2017 13: 59
    Well, yes, he led the world away from nuclear disaster.
    At the cost of killing his country, which he was entrusted with.
    Although, of course, Gorbachev was not alone in taking part in the collapse of the country.
    But he was afraid to give orders that would prevent this destruction.
  57. +4
    28 September 2017 15: 15
    Quote: iouris
    . More like contempt.

    Disgust and nausea at the sight of this bug-eyed toad. negative
  58. +3
    28 September 2017 16: 23
    My grandmother, the deceased, in her youth lived in a neighboring village with Gorbach’s parents and knew him as a boy. HER words, after all that he did..."if she knew what it would be (...... well, a word denoting excrement)", she would not be too lazy to go and strangle her.... This is what this Judas is doing deserved it.
  59. 0
    28 September 2017 17: 06
    By the way, under Gorbachev, at least here in Belarus in the 80s (largely thanks to the late Pyotr Masherov), the village flourished. High salaries with decent labor productivity thanks to government lending and a self-sufficiency program. Milkmaids had one of the highest salaries in the real sector of the economy.
    1. +2
      29 September 2017 02: 47
      Masherov was killed long before the humpback hatched from the Stavropol region. With the hunchback there, they were already in Minsk and the sausages were gone. Under Masherov, for sure, everything was on sale and there was plenty of everything! Quietly, the furniture is excellent, refrigerators, clothes, even Zenit DSLRs, which were in short supply at the time!
      1. 0
        29 September 2017 09: 22
        According to Masherov, this is so... He was before the hunchback.
  60. 0
    28 September 2017 17: 09
    But under Comrade Stalin, whom everyone reveres here, the collective farmer was a powerless brute without documents working for “sticks” on the report card.
    1. +1
      28 September 2017 18: 11
      Quote: alexhol
      the collective farmer was a disenfranchised brute without documents working for “sticks” on his report card

      Well, this is a moot point
      1. -1
        28 September 2017 20: 09
        This is today, for us members of the forum it is controversial, but then there were only three ways to escape from bondage: either the army, or enrolling in a university, or, well, what kind of construction site to enlist in.
        1. 0
          28 September 2017 21: 39
          that is, they could still get up and leave?!
          1. -1
            28 September 2017 22: 08
            If the chairman (master) allows it and issues a certificate in hand.
            1. ogi
              0
              28 September 2017 22: 22
              Quote: alexhol
              chairman (master)

              The chairman is the master's manager. The master in the USSR in post-Dzhugashvili times was one, a party. And before her, Dzhugashvili personally.
            2. 0
              29 September 2017 07: 42
              Well, enough, you tried to leave in person, no, then calm down
        2. +1
          29 September 2017 02: 04
          For those who believe in such nonsense, it is probably a big mystery how the population of the country turned from predominantly rural to predominantly urban. It was impossible to escape from Kabbalah, but everyone escaped. Schizophrenia
          1. ogi
            0
            29 September 2017 08: 18
            Quote: Pissarro
            It was impossible to escape from Kabbalah, but everyone escaped. Schizophrenia

            You? It also says what the paths were.
          2. +1
            29 September 2017 09: 24
            Kabbalah and Kabbalah are different... hi
  61. 0
    28 September 2017 17: 16
    The hatred comes mainly from those who first shouted hurray for perestroika, then carried Yeltsin in their arms, who supposedly dared to challenge Gorbachev, and now they are screaming, accusing everyone and everything of drunkenness and betrayal, and of course they themselves have nothing to do with it, they are the lambs of God themselves . It’s convenient, but don’t blame yourself. Likewise, among the Ukropithecus, everyone is to blame - Kuchma, Yushchenko, Yanyk, Porokh.....all traitors, thieves, murderers, but of course they themselves have nothing to do with it. It's their fault, it's theirs. And to Mikhalsergeich, holder of the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called, the highest award of Russia, health and many years of life.
    1. +3
      28 September 2017 18: 16
      Quote: SergiK
      but of course they themselves have nothing to do with it, they themselves are the lambs of God.

      no, they are not lambs and they are to blame for the same thing, though not in treason and betrayal, but in stupidity and naivety
      Sorry for the tactless question, how old were you at 91?
  62. +1
    28 September 2017 18: 00
    Right. Gorbachev is not the only one to blame.
  63. +3
    28 September 2017 19: 38
    For the actions of this Judas, it is high time for him to fry in hell in a frying pan.
  64. +2
    28 September 2017 20: 03
    Hatred of Russians towards Gorbachev in the West is considered a “mystery”
    The West would like such a “ruler” and they would immediately understand all the hatred of the Russian people. Give Gorbachev instead of Trump, and we’ll see in a year how you start singing!
  65. 0
    28 September 2017 20: 44
    Why won’t anyone shoot him!? am
    1. +3
      28 September 2017 21: 39
      because... I don’t want to sit, you’ll kill me..., but they will judge you as a person
  66. +3
    28 September 2017 21: 53
    Let him live... Well, for him... I feel sorry for the magnificent commanders who drank themselves to death, the cut-up corps, my Academy,... to hell... for the bull to become a mercenary (there was nothing to eat, to say the least) - it was necessary to try
  67. +4
    28 September 2017 22: 35
    Officers, say... There are 17 l/s in the compartment - all prepared! 160 kilotons of ammunition on board.... The political officer fled to Ukraine... and I’m like a pregnant cat.... Not guys, it will be hard to forgive... And here are NATO representatives.... Pretty 45-year-old Colonel bitch - “Will you allow me?...” A-ha...- Top watch!!! Queue to the sky!!! Mooring lines up!!! Put everyone face down on the deck!!!... - “You can’t shake it!!!” -Can!!!! I'm the eldest on board... here's the "Ship's Charter" on the back of your head
    .... Well, stupidity, anecdote, they removed it.... damn.... And they cleaned the compartment, but without me
  68. +2
    28 September 2017 22: 44
    Quote: alexhol
    Ha ha ha In the Czech Republic it is certainly better. "but this is our homeland, son." laughing

    Baby, you should know, since you’re pretending to be an expert here, that there used to be a country Czechoslovakia, and the Czech Republic comes later, the result of Gorbachev’s maneuvers.
  69. +4
    29 September 2017 00: 29
    Nah, I read Tatyana’s posts, the feeling is that she is an ordinary exalted fool, of which there was plenty in 1917
    1. 0
      29 September 2017 02: 05
      Tatyana is many times more adequate than your kind
  70. The comment was deleted.
  71. +3
    29 September 2017 02: 43
    You can’t understand Russia with your mind - you can’t measure it with a common yardstick..." and there’s no need to try. There’s one very educated American here, a normal guy by the way - he drinks vodka, he learned Russian thoroughly, he knows a lot of Russian and Soviet songs... he reads and rereads Dostoevsky for about thirty years now. He can recite all his works by heart. We sit in the company, have a drink, and he says, “Well, I can’t understand why Raskolnikov killed the interest-bearer, because she helped people, gave them loans!” ... Out, everyone is lying! you're telling us about a hunchback...
  72. +2
    29 September 2017 07: 11
    And what kind of attitude can a ruler expect towards himself, for whom the interests of other countries are more important than the interests of his own country? What good did he do for the people living in the USSR? Anti-alcohol company, empty shelves in stores, Afghan shame, fraternization with the West, flight to Foros..... But no, I remembered, I cleaned the boots of Politburo members well wassat
    1. +2
      29 September 2017 09: 00
      I looked through the messages in the topic and came to the conclusion that the vast majority of users are green bastards who have never seen anything good in their lives, don’t really know or understand anything, but with great aplomb and requests. In short, the next generation, Pepsi and pizza. It’s sad to realize that our generation will be replaced by these weirdos, to put it mildly.
      1. -1
        29 September 2017 09: 25
        Well, yes, not everyone had the opportunity to serve abroad wink
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 0
        29 September 2017 09: 51
        You are not entirely fair. The Pepsi generation, the nineties, grew up and was able to defend the country... And the current ones will grow up. hi
  73. 0
    29 September 2017 09: 41
    By the way, in order to travel abroad, at least to the countries of the former socialist camp, you must be either a party member, or a leader, or through connections, as usual. Before leaving, the whole brain will be stupefied with consultations by plainclothes employees. Well, the path to capitalist country was forbidden for mere mortals. so I saw the world personally after ’91
    1. +1
      29 September 2017 10: 44
      Quote: alexhol
      you must be either a party member or a leader

      rare nonsense
      I’m wondering how old you are, well, I mean, did you live under the Union?
  74. +1
    29 September 2017 09: 47
    Quote: alexhol
    Well, yes, not everyone had the opportunity to serve abroad

    What, are you jealous, cardboard fool? Well, come on, in Syria this rigmarole will continue for a long time, so here’s to you going abroad! Drive there, absorb the dust.
    1. -1
      29 September 2017 09: 58
      Tomorrow I will be on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea, in a country bordering Syria. So wish me a good rest good
  75. +1
    29 September 2017 09: 59
    Marked is a diligent student of Hitler. He destroyed the USSR, the army, and the national economy.
    1. +9
      29 September 2017 10: 03
      Quote: Bosch
      Marked - Hitler's diligent student

      Marked is the apotheosis of the development of party nomenklatura. When there was a joke about the party committee: - What is this? - What? Just like you did: shu-shu-shu, and they ate it.
      Quote: Bosch
      Destroyed the USSR, the army, the national economy

      At first he wanted what was best. I just never knew how to do it. And then they took him by the trunk and led him away...
      That something like this.
  76. 0
    29 September 2017 10: 07
    Quote: alexhol
    By the way, in order to travel abroad, at least to the countries of the former socialist camp, you must be either a party member, or a leader, or through connections, as usual. Before leaving, the whole brain will be stupefied with consultations by plainclothes employees. Well, the path to capitalist country was forbidden for mere mortals. so I saw the world personally after ’91

    Where does this info come from? It's really creepy, maybe some Radio Liberty whispered it?
    1. +10
      29 September 2017 10: 12
      Quote: Stolz
      Quote: alexhol
      By the way, in order to travel abroad, at least to the countries of the former socialist camp, you must be either a party member, or a leader, or through connections, as usual. Before leaving, the whole brain will be stupefied with consultations by plainclothes employees. Well, the path to capitalist country was forbidden for mere mortals. so I saw the world personally after ’91

      Where does this info come from? It's really creepy, maybe some Radio Liberty whispered it?

      I’ll tell you: my father, somewhere in the mid-seventies, went to East Germany (which is the GDR, if you remember).
      About the brain drain - it’s true, my dad swore like a shoemaker.
      The money they exchanged was a measly amount, I remember that I got a red (with white stripes) T-shirt as a gift, my mother - I don’t remember what, and there was also a plastic tile, which was enough to cover the walls near the sink in the kitchen. That's all there was enough for.
      At the same time, my father was already a candidate of sciences at an academic institute, although not a party member laughing
      So it's true, honey, it's true Yes
  77. +1
    29 September 2017 10: 14
    Quote: alexhol
    Tomorrow I will be on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea, in a country bordering Syria. So wish me a good rest

    No way you were going to Turkey, 9 days and 10 nights? Is this a vacation? I once “vacated” in Cuba for more than 2 years!
    1. ogi
      0
      29 September 2017 11: 30
      Quote: Stolz
      Turkey gathered, 9 days and 10 nights? Is this a vacation? I once “vacated” in Cuba for more than 2 years!

      In Turkey, yes, holidays are not for everyone. But in Cuba, vacation is for extreme sports enthusiasts. I would choose Turkey. Cheap and cheerful. But in Cuba it’s expensive, and not at all angry.
    2. -1
      29 September 2017 15: 44
      Almost to the point (10 days and 9 nights). Yes I'm in a great mood today. I hope the Turks won’t ruin it for me. I would fly to Cuba, but the flight time and time zone change and the cost are not yet available.
  78. The comment was deleted.
  79. +1
    29 September 2017 11: 19
    ogi,
    "...in historical terms, no other state, except the USSR, has ever managed to achieve such a high degree of social equality and homogeneity (homogeneity in composition, properties, origin) with a simultaneous impressive increase in the standard of living for almost all layers and groups of the population. The decisive prerequisite for such development was the economic policy of the Soviet state, carried out under conditions of public ownership of the means of production and a system of unified economic planning." (Source: Roger Kiran, Thomas Kenny “Selling Socialism” http://aleksandr-kommari.narod.ru/kiran.html) For the first time in history, the fate and career of a person did not depend on the amount of money in his accounts, so already 25 years after graduation 2nd World War, in 1970, the USSR's share of world GDP was 13,2%, which is approximately equal to the total GDP of Great Britain, France, Italy, Spain and Canada combined.
    It should also be noted that two most destructive wars were forgiven on the territory of the USSR.
    1. ogi
      +2
      29 September 2017 12: 33
      Quote: Stroporez
      "... in historical terms, no other state, except the USSR, has ever succeeded in achieving such a high degree of social equality and homogeneity (uniformity in composition, properties, origin) with a simultaneous impressive increase in living standards for almost all layers and groups of the population. The decisive prerequisite for such a development was the economic policy of the Soviet state, carried out under conditions of nationwide ownership of the means of production and the system of unified economic planning. " (Source: Roger Kieran, Thomas Kenny "Soldiers of Socialism"

      Why didn’t Roger Kieran and Thomas Kenny, who wrote this nonsense, go there during the Soviet era? Didn't want to?
      Well, then the value of their writings is zero.
      Quote: Stroporez
      For the first time in history, a person’s fate and career did not depend on the amount of money in his accounts

      But it very much depended on the origin. And connections. Very, very dependent. So it's not clear which is better.
      Quote: Stroporez
      already 25 years after the end of the 2nd World War, in 1970, the USSR’s share of world GDP was equal to 13,2%, which is approximately equal to the total GDP of Great Britain, France, Italy, Spain and Canada combined.

      In 1970 The USSR's GDP was 12,8% of the world's total. However, this is not an interesting indicator to anyone but you. Moreover, by 1983, it degraded to 7.8%, and by 1990. up to 3,4% of the world total. "Fruits of Victory" are over. And the USSR could no longer afford to sacrifice another 42 million people for the sake of its ephemeral “fruits”. And there were big problems with the probability of winning.
      It is much more interesting to trace the standard of living of the population. In 1970 the average Frenchman was 1,6 times richer than a Soviet citizen. And the British, 1,3 times. And even the average German, 1,5 times. Potentially, of course, because in the USSR everything belonged to the party, and not to the population, which was content with crumbs. But if we conditionally divide everything “by eater,” then we get exactly these numbers. Those. even in 1970 The USSR couldn’t really boast of anything. Although, in comparison with the world average, GDP per capita of the USSR was then 194%. And then it only got worse (see above). 134% in 1983 and so on up to 62,7% in 1990. Moreover, everything, again, belonged to the party. And the population really just became impoverished. This is what “development” was like.
      1. +1
        29 September 2017 13: 14
        Quote: ogi
        But it very much depended on the origin. And connections. Very, very dependent.

        If you are talking about social elevators, they were absolutely more developed in the USSR than in any of the other countries.
        Quote: ogi
        It is much more interesting to trace the standard of living of the population. In 1970

        Only 25 years have passed since the war, and the results of growth were colossal. If we imagine that we had avoided the coup of 1991, the growth rate remained at least at the level of 90, then at the moment China would not hold a candle to us .
        Quote: ogi
        This is what “development” was like.

        This is exactly what development was, and now we have endless stagnation. The growth that is voiced by the “commanders” is just a slowdown in the decline and the production of tractors, for example, increased by 3%, which in unit terms amounted to 210 units, 3% growth in the machine tool industry is 80 PC!!!
        In the USSR, all this was released in one day!

        1. ogi
          0
          29 September 2017 22: 51
          Quote: Stroporez
          Only 25 years have passed since the war, but the results of growth have been enormous.

          Yeah. This alone cost 42 million direct losses and 11 million indirect losses. And God knows how many people who died after the war from war factors.
          Quote: Stroporez
          If we imagine that we would have avoided the coup of 1991, the growth rate would have remained at least at the level of 90, then at the moment China would not hold a candle to us.

          Those. the figures about the degradation of the USSR economy from 1970 to 1990, which I brought to you, did not reach your consciousness. You saw some “growth rates” there. Oh well.
          Quote: Stroporez
          It was precisely the development

          Well, I wrote, they didn’t get there.
          Quote: Stroporez
          and now we have endless stagnation.

          With a sharp increase in the standard of living of the population, ultimately.
          Quote: Stroporez
          For example, it increased by 3%, which in unit terms amounted to 210 pieces, 3% growth in the machine tool industry is 80 pieces!!!

          Yes, never mind that. It's not clear why you're even interested in this.
          Quote: Stroporez
          In the USSR, all this was released in one day!

          What for?
          1. +1
            30 September 2017 01: 03
            Quote: ogi
            With a sharp increase in the standard of living of the population, ultimately.

            Oh well....
          2. +1
            30 September 2017 08: 31
            Quote: ogi
            Yeah. This alone cost 42 million direct losses and 11 million indirect losses.

            Is it socialism's fault?
            Quote: ogi
            With a sharp increase in the standard of living of the population, ultimately.

            how much it cost in lives, not to mention the terrible stratification of society
            1. ogi
              0
              30 September 2017 18: 30
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              Is it socialism's fault?

              And who else?
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              how much it cost in lives, not to mention the terrible stratification of society

              So the Sovietness crawled out. It is better for everyone to be equally poor than to live better, but to have rich people. And it wasn't you.
              1. 0
                30 September 2017 19: 48
                Quote: ogi
                And who else?

                that is, the insidious USSR attacked the defenseless Reich, thereby unleashing the Second World War?!!
                excuse me, you are either an idiot or a troll
                Quote: ogi
                So the Sovietness crawled out. It is better for everyone to be equally poor than to live better, but to have rich people.

                I think it’s all the same, well, or another option - a GRIT capable of going over the heads to the goal
  80. +2
    29 September 2017 11: 58
    Quote: ogi
    Quote: Stolz
    Turkey gathered, 9 days and 10 nights? Is this a vacation? I once “vacated” in Cuba for more than 2 years!

    In Turkey, yes, holidays are not for everyone. But in Cuba, vacation is for extreme sports enthusiasts. I would choose Turkey. Cheap and cheerful. But in Cuba it’s expensive, and not at all angry.

    The word resting is written in quotation marks, because I got there through the “Voentourist” line, it wasn’t expensive at all, it was even profitable: there I received it in local currency, and in the Union the salary in rubles was used for the book. In general, this “Voentourist” sent many people on foreign tours; to Afghanistan, for example, and even earlier to Somalia, Vietnam, Egypt, etc. - not to mention the socialist countries. camps, as they used to be called. Singles stayed there for 3 years, married for 5 years. For you, my words sound like myths and legends, but that’s how it happened and only the one who was marked covered everything up. I assume that in the houses and barracks built by our construction battalion, NATO soldiers are now having fun.
    1. ogi
      +1
      29 September 2017 13: 06
      Quote: Stolz
      oh so it was and only the marked one covered everything up.

      I cited figures for the dynamics of the Soviet economy to Stroporez. Read it. And pray to Gorbachev that he did not force everyone into a strict regime, and did not shoot another million or two. But he could have done it easily and simply. So he would have saved the USSR. But would you be able to survive in this case? A very big question.
      Maybe some local security official would like your car. Or your wife. Or simply “the plan would have failed.” And that’s all, good luck.
      Quote: Stolz
      I assume that in the houses and barracks built by our construction battalion, NATO soldiers are now having fun.

      Don't think. I lived in Soviet barracks. Natural cattle farm.
      1. +1
        29 September 2017 13: 21
        Quote: ogi
        Don't think. I lived in Soviet barracks. Natural cattle farm.


        You haven’t lived in the “field” yet, then any barracks would seem like a palace to you.
        I am amazed when such wimps come out on military forums.
        You should quietly rejoice at the scales.
        1. ogi
          0
          29 September 2017 23: 13
          Quote: DimerVladimer
          I am amazed when such wimps come out on military forums.

          Still, the Internet still has disadvantages. For example, some brother of the dwarf Nose can always get into the conversation and call you a wimp. And nothing will happen to him for this. No one can even touch your eyes. Although this is what you are supposed to do in ordinary life.
      2. 0
        29 September 2017 15: 07
        ..only cattle live in livestock farms, and Soviet soldiers lived in barracks.
        1. ogi
          0
          29 September 2017 23: 16
          Quote: esaul1950
          only cattle live in livestock farms, and Soviet soldiers lived in barracks.

          Yeah. Only these barracks were not much different from cattle depots.
          And “warriors” are cool. This is how we called those who were guilty. Before the “verdict” is announced.
      3. 0
        29 September 2017 18: 05
        Quote: ogi
        I lived in Soviet barracks. Natural cattle farm.

        you were mistaken "dear" you seem to have been placed where you belong
  81. 0
    29 September 2017 12: 14
    Quote: Golovan Jack

    At the same time, my father was already a candidate of sciences at an academic institute, although not a party member laughing
    So it's true, honey, it's true

    And I was a lieutenant, a graduate of a military school, which I graduated with honors, and therefore I chose the place of service of the GSVG - this is a group of Soviet troops in Germany, who doesn’t know. I served there for 3 years and returned with a car, which was very cool at that time, not to mention carpets and various Madonna sets as gifts for family and friends.
    1. +9
      29 September 2017 12: 28
      Quote: Stolz
      And I was a lieutenant...

      Dear, I am endlessly happy for you.
      But we were not talking about those who served abroad, but about those who did go there, for example, on a business trip.
      Feel the difference wink
      In addition, throughout the three years of your service there, you were closely watched by the watchful eye of the special officer. Do you have any doubts about this?
    2. -1
      29 September 2017 15: 53
      Now I so vividly imagined you in a Trabant with protruding rolls of carpets and rattling tableware on the border. wink. However, he himself had a sticker on the gas tank of his moped - a neighbor brought it from the GDR after his service. Cool, as they say now.
  82. +2
    29 September 2017 12: 54
    14 years ago I flew to Japan, and was next to Gorbachev. This figure flew in business class and with two security guards. But then I treated Gorbachev more calmly and thoughts of finishing off the scum did not even arise in my mind. If such a flight had happened If now, I would gladly give him a punch, although it’s rude to beat older people. But this scum deserves much worse. Only now, after 26 years, am I beginning to understand what country and what unique world this traitor destroyed. that he did this only out of stupidity, but now information has begun to appear that this scoundrel was recruited long ago, and even brought to power with the help of a special operation, when Shcherbitsky and Romanov, who were specially detained in different places, were absent from the voting in the Politburo. This explains a lot. . For money, some pathetic green pieces of paper, this animal managed to cause colossal losses and pain to many millions! Even Hitler did not bring such losses. He was an enemy and it was understandable with him. But when betrayal comes from the very top of the country!!?? And he there was more than one. There were other traitors at the top. The USSR could not resist the combined pressure of internal betrayal and external pressure. And it was easy to manipulate the people with the help of artificially created shortages of essential goods and the media. But WHAT WORLD did he destroy? A world where people lived without this damn advertising and without the thirst for profit in their eyes and soul. HOW TO Bring IT Back Now?
  83. The comment was deleted.
  84. +1
    29 September 2017 13: 04
    Quote: ogi
    Who told you this? Yes, syrup was part of the “mixture” that was used to load the machine guns. But he was not alone there.
    Of course, not only syrup, but also water and gas laughing
    It’s a miracle you, with a smart look about gas and water machines, will scare the Americans and not those who in childhood threw shifters on a string at them
    Quote: ogi
    And what was there? Only the meat was bad.

    Lord, where did you read this nonsense?
    Quote: ogi
    Once again I urge you to look at the life expectancy of the population of the USSR. This is a very important and objective indicator.

    this is an absolutely subjective indicator, because half of the population of the USSR lived in such climatic conditions in which Westerners would die in a year
  85. +1
    29 September 2017 14: 22
    Quote: Golovan Jack

    In addition, throughout the three years of your service there, you were closely watched by the watchful eye of the special officer. Do you have any doubts about this?

    Well, so what? His job is no worse than anyone else’s, by the way.
    1. 0
      29 September 2017 14: 45
      You say very correctly, mamley, the current one with the banner... here, coupled with the above......... there may be some misunderstandings....."You!!!! Me!!! Chekista!!!! Decided get drunk?!!!" - "A-ha... Let's follow the thread... We'll get out of the pier, then onto a car and into the 69th Parallel!!! - "Gut!!!!
  86. 0
    29 September 2017 15: 03
    These .... in the West don’t know that in Russia they have always HATED traitors?
  87. 0
    29 September 2017 21: 29
    I really hope that they will start producing toilets with the Gorby snout shape.
  88. 0
    16 December 2017 00: 33
    In order to destroy such a country, you need to be a complete fool or deliberately and consciously. But Hunchback is far from a fool.
    He destroyed the country systematically and consistently. Some things cannot even be explained with money. If we take the military sphere, then the destruction of the Navy, the armored infantry missile system is great, silo-based ICBMs, the OKA missile system with cruise missiles (analogous to the Iskander), aviation - in just a moment it fell apart completely. The collapse of the most powerful military group in Europe, the Russian contingent in the GDR. You need to beat him and burn him for this. The Germans were ready to pay us billions of marks every year for the withdrawal for thirty years. In less than a year, everyone abandoned tanks, warehouses, airplanes and other equipment. All of Europe was in shock. Berezovsky took it for 15 million marks. Thatcher tried to persuade him not to tear down the wall, not to unite Germany, Germany should not be allowed to become stronger. He doesn't give a fuck. And now the toad is blathering. Well, Yeltsin brought everything to an end by relentlessly filling his plum. They must be given a historical assessment of their activities and who they were. We almost lost the country.
  89. The comment was deleted.

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