Stories about weapons. 76-mm mountain gun 1938 model of the year

50


For a long time I had to look for a copy of this tool for shooting. A very rare cannon in museums precisely because of its specificity. In general, in Russia there are only three left.



Lucky in the military museum stories in Padikovo there is not just a copy of a mountain cannon, but in perfect condition. And you can not just examine it, but also get an understanding of what the gun was like.



At the beginning of the 30 of the last century, it was decided to replace the Red Army 76-mm mountain cannon of the 1909 model of the year as outdated. The main drawbacks of these guns, inherited from the army of the Russian Empire, were the small angle of vertical guidance (28 °) and the use of unitary ammunition with a constant charge and very low (381 m / s) initial projectile velocity as ammunition.



Considering the specifics of combat operations in the mountains, the possibility of firing at high elevation angles when using various charges is crucial for a mountain weapon.

Nevertheless, it is worth noting that the mountain cannons of the 1909 model of the year have conquered the entire Great Patriotic War. In fact, the 2 000 of these guns, launched from 1909 to 1939, was noted on all fronts of the battles of that war.

In the 1936 year, when the decision was made to replace, all contacts with Germany, which was the main supplier of artillery systems for the USSR, were practically discontinued on the initiative of Hitler.

However, there was also Czechoslovakia, with which a corresponding agreement was concluded in 1935. The company "Skoda" had extensive experience in creating artillery systems, and it was decided to build on the products of this manufacturer.

8 January 1936 of the year was issued a decree of the Council of Labor and Defense, providing for testing of mining tools of the company "Skoda" in the USSR. For testing, the company presented the newest 75-mm mountain cannon C-5 (also known as M.36), which was reconstructed under the caliber 76,2 mm, traditional for the Soviet army. In the USSR, the gun was called the “special delivery mountain cannon” or G-36. Landing tests of guns were carried out in Czechoslovakia and at the Research Artillery range (NIAP), military tests - in the South Caucasus. As a result, it was decided to purchase a license for the production of tools.

It was necessary, however, to face the grin of capitalism. Škoda set a condition for purchasing 400 guns from it and 400 thousand shots for them for 22 million dollars. The Soviet leadership decided that it was expensive, and the negotiations first reached an impasse.

But in 1937, the parties agreed politically: Czechoslovakia on behalf of Skoda passes the USSR documentation and license to manufacture the gun, and the USSR in turn gives Czechoslovakia documentation and license to produce the SB bomber.

Having received the C-5 at their disposal, the first step was to refine it to adapt the design to the capabilities of the Soviet industry, and, if possible, to improve the performance characteristics.

The design work of the gun was carried out by the design bureau of the Leningrad plant No. 7 under the direction of L. I. Gorlitsky.

In 1938, the gun was tested. Definitely say that it is impossible. According to the test results, changes were made to the design of the instrument. Instead of semi-automatics, the quarter-automatics was introduced, the design of the recoil devices was changed, the frontal part of the mast was shortened, the thickness of the cradle was increased. In this form, the gun satisfied the military leadership, and the 5 of May 1939, the gun was adopted under the official name “76-mm mountain cannon arr. 1938.

The gun was mass-produced at the Arsenal plant in Kiev. The 1939-41 produced 1060 guns. Production was stopped at the end of the summer of 1941, due to the evacuation of the plant from Kiev. More gun was not released.

It is worth saying that the gun came out not cheap. The cost of one mountain cannon model 1938 g. Was 80 000 rubles. The 76 mm 1927 model regimental gun cost 35 000 rubles.



The gun was an artillery system with a single-sided gun carriage, a wedge bolt and metal disc wheels without suspension. Officially, the system was classified as a gun, but the presence of several charges and the maximum angle of elevation in 70 ° makes it possible to classify a weapon and as a howitzer. In fact - howitzer cannon.

If we talk about how the gun was "our", it is worth saying the following. Yes, the prototype was the Czechoslovak C-5. But our gun was not in any way a licensed copy of the Czech. And here it is worth going through the differences in the performance characteristics to immediately put an end to this question.

The C-5 had a smaller caliber (75 versus 76,2) and a smaller barrel length (19 versus 21,4 caliber).

The angle of vertical guidance in our gun was higher. 70 degrees versus 50. In addition, the Soviet gun had a higher ground clearance (320 mm versus 250) and wider wheels (155 mm versus 65).

The normal recoil length was shorter for C-5 (560 mm versus 640), but the limit was shorter for our gun (710 mm versus 870).

Unfortunately, the semi-automatic shutter for the mountain gun could not be done.



The gun could move mounted, mechanical, and also disassembled on horse packs. When the horse was moved, a front end weighing about 665 kg (in the loaded state) was used, in which the 33 cartridge was transported. There was also a charging box in which 69 to 72 cartridges were transported. To move the instrument with the front end, six horses were needed, another six were carrying a charging box. When using mechanical thrust, the gun could be towed with or without a front end with a maximum speed of 18 km / h.

Stories about weapons. 76-mm mountain gun 1938 model of the year


If necessary, the gun could move on equestrian packs, for which it could be disassembled into 9 parts. One cannon with a front end and ammunition was mounted on 23 horses, the 4-gun battery was powered by 92 horses (for comparison, the 76-mm battery of mountain cannons, 1909, was driven by 76 horses).

In mountain rifle divisions, mountain cannons served as both regimental and divisional guns. In every mountain rifle regiment throughout the war there was a four-gun 76-mm mountain cannon battery.

In the mining and cavalry divisions there was one mining and artillery division - eight 76-mm mountain cannons and six 107-mm mortars.

Also, ordinary rifle divisions, in which they served as regimental guns, could be completed with mountain guns, four guns per regiment.



The gun was intended for action in the mountains and on a very rough, difficult terrain. It was allowed to use the gun as a regimental gun. In combat conditions, the gun could solve the following tasks:

destruction of enemy manpower and infantry fire weapons;
suppression and destruction of enemy artillery;
the fight against enemy mechanized weapons;
destruction of light field shelters;
destruction of wire obstacles.



The 76-mm gun model 1938 of the year used its own, not interchangeable with other guns shots. The shots were completed in unitary cartridges, and some liners had a removable bottom, which made it possible to remove extra beams of powder and shoot with reduced charges. The sleeve is brass, weighing 1,4 kg.

The variable charge Ж-356 was used for firing high-explosive fragmentation, incendiary and smoke projectiles, was packaged in sleeves with a removable bottom. When firing a full charge, the beams were not taken out of the sleeve, the initial velocity of the high-explosive fragmentation projectile was 500 m / s, when firing the first charge, the top beam was taken out, the initial speed was 330 m / s, and when shooting the third charge, the top and middle beam were taken out The initial speed was 260 m / s.

But the mountain cannon could use normal 76-mm shells of divisional guns quite normally.

The most frequently used steel high-explosive fragmentation projectile OF-350 and its version with a body of steel casting OF-350A.

There were two varieties of shrapnel, differing mainly in the type of distance tube used.

Incendiary shells were represented by one type - З-350 with thermite segments, laid in three rows of three segments.

Fragmentation projectiles OX-350 were filled with TNT and toxic substances such as P-12 or P-15. Fragmentation projectiles were not included in the firing tables. But for the possibility of firing shots, the shape and mass of these projectiles were identical to high-explosive fragmentation grenades OF-350.

Armor-piercing shells were of three varieties, as well as for the regimental cannon BR-350А, BR-350Б and BR-350SP.



Structurally, the 76-mm mountain gun of the 1938 model of the year combined both progressive for its time and conservative elements. The first are good ballistics, a wedge bolt, a significant angle of elevation, and the possibility of firing on different charges, realized in the form of a sleeve with a removable bottom.

To the second, the use of a single-bar carriage without suspension, which severely limited the angle of horizontal guidance and the maximum speed of the gun. At the same time, these drawbacks are not so critical for a mountain gun — in conditions of fighting in mountainous areas, the need for a significant change in the direction of firing does not occur so often, and the relatively small mass of the gun made it possible to quickly enough change the angle of horizontal guidance by the forces of calculation. The conditions of the mountain roads often do not contribute to the rapid hauling of guns.

For aiming the gun in the horizontal plane the assistant gunner was used, the post of which was called “PraIlI”. At the command of the gunner, with the help of Orla (a relative of the scrap) inserted into the back of the mast, the correct one made the turn of the gun in the horizontal plane.

Somewhat archaic, but when you move the gun, another member of the calculation was not superfluous.

The 1938 model's mountain cannon surpassed both the 1909 model's mountain cannon and the regimental guns at the maximum angle of vertical guidance, initial speed, and maximum firing range.

Pay for it had to increase more than 150 kg compared with the gun model 1909, the weight of the gun. Nevertheless, the cannon played its role in the defense of the Caucasus, in the Iranian campaign and as a regimental cannon on all battlefields up to Berlin.

Sources:
Shirokorad A. B. Encyclopedia of domestic artillery.
Ivanov A. USSR Artillery in the Second World War.
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  1. +6
    26 September 2017 07: 56
    here it is on the packs
    1. +1
      26 September 2017 09: 17
      Pretty gun
      1. +1
        26 September 2017 14: 21
        Quote: xetai9977
        Pretty gun


        Goofy gun - an ill-conceived, poorly executed compilation of a Czech gun.

        This is what you need to be a "designer" to copy the 1915 gun 20 years later and put into service ...
        Grabin V.G. was right

        “According to the plan, the gun turned out to be not at a high level and almost completely copied the Czech mountain gun of the 1915 model, and was even worse than it in some mechanisms and components. We asked the head of the design bureau to explain why this particular gun scheme was chosen. He categorically denied that the Czech cannon was copied, saying that he had never heard of such a gun, especially insisted that the design was completely original. "
        completely here http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/grabin/09.htm
        l
        1. +1
          26 September 2017 22: 09
          The words of Grabin you quoted refer to the first sample 7-1! And they adopted the revised model 7-2!
          Vasily Gavrilovich himself sometimes did things “incomprehensible” for posterity! For example, why did he, when processing the F-22 into the F-22USV, leave vertical and horizontal aiming drives spaced apart on different sides of the gun?
          1. +1
            27 September 2017 11: 30
            Quote: hohol95
            The words of Grabin you quoted refer to the first sample 7-1! And they adopted the revised model 7-2!

            So 7-2 because it appeared that Grabin with 2 engineers completed the technical conclusion on the project 7-1. According to its results, the design bureau redid the project - 7-2 appeared, which was put into service, which did not fix the fundamental shortcomings of the system: archaic (outdated concept), one very heavy bed, excessive mass of the gun (critical for a mountain gun), primitive horizontal aiming - which required an increase in the calculation of the gun.

            Quote: hohol95
            Vasily Gavrilovich himself sometimes did things “incomprehensible” for posterity! For example, why did he, when processing the F-22 into the F-22USV, leave vertical and horizontal aiming drives spaced apart on different sides of the gun?


            Why not understandable? For me, as a designer-technologist, everything is very logical, and his authority as a designer, starting from the technological design, is an axiom of the modern mass production of any product.

            In March 1937, new tactical and technical requirements (TTT) were issued for a divisional gun: the elevation angle was to be 45 °, the weight of the gun in combat position - no more than 1500 kg. The Kirov plant, under the leadership of I.A. Makhanov, presented for testing his L-12 gun in March 1938.

            At a meeting in April 1938 on the arming of the 76-mm divisional gun of the Kirov Plant, which by that time had been developing for 1,5 years (was not accepted for service), Grabin took the initiative on the basis of the F-22 to make a new divisional gun, respectively with widespread use of units already tested by production.

            "... Immediately after the meeting of the GVS, in the hotel, I sketched the idea of ​​the future gun in the form of a diagram. I didn’t like it. I redid the sketch again, gradually refining the idea. Now I could proceed to the structural-technological layout, but I was not at home The design bureau, and in Moscow the next day, a meeting was scheduled at Voroshilov for a more in-depth discussion [263] of the gun of the Kirov factory ... ... In addition, the scheme of the new gun is based on F-22, and nothing new will have to be invented .. . "

            "... The maximum use of standard schemes, the principle of similarity, unification - today it is the basics for designers ..."

            Hence the preservation of the guidance nodes scheme, the use of spent ones - in addition, for a divisional gun this is not as critical as for a VET. For the "division" - direct fire at tanks - it is rather a necessary necessity.

            Plant No. 92 produced four copies of the experimental division gun. Factory tests began from August 1938 to March 1939. March 28, 1939, F-22 SPM passed tests at the NIAP test site.

            On July 5, 1939, the Artillery Directorate selected from all the developed options: L-12, F-22USV and the NDP OKB-43 gun - the F-22 USV gun.

            "... It’s not enough for the designer to master the techniques of layout and the structural-technological formation of the gun. He is obliged to combine the given requirements for the future gun with the already existing various constructive schemes of the mechanisms, assemblies and guns in general. Just like an artist, without touching the canvas yet, In his imagination he plotes the plot of the future picture, which will allow him to fully reveal the idea, and the designer, using his knowledge and experience, creates the idea of ​​the future tool in his mind.Then the idea is transferred to paper in the form In the future, this sketch serves as the main document for the layout, structural and technological development of the structure, as well as for the preparation of all technical documentation and for the manufacture of a prototype ..."Grabin V.G." The weapon of victory "

            As a designer, a technologist by training, I will say that this phrase is an axiom for competent designers in mass production.

            Replace the word "gun" with "product" - this is a universal paradigm for the designer, no matter what industry he works in.
            1. 0
              27 September 2017 11: 37
              But sometimes this ingenious designer was "a little drifted"! As an example, Grabin is pushing the guns of his design bureau for the SU-85 and SU-100.
              "The head of the TsAKB VG Grabin tried to push forward the continuation of work on the S-18, declaring the forthcoming rapid increase in her initial speed by lengthening the barrel to 60 calibers, but the estimate of the mass of the resulting gun apparently frightened the NKV Technical Department, which did not authorize the continuation of work in given direction. "
            2. 0
              28 September 2017 09: 42
              And what do F-22 and SPM have in common except for the shots?
              1. 0
                28 September 2017 12: 55
                Distributed on different sides of the guns aiming drives and two gunners in the calculation of the guns!
        2. +1
          27 September 2017 13: 06
          "... For more than a month we were engaged in a 7-1 gun, but we did not find a single unit that could be called satisfactory. We ourselves were unpleasant that literally for each node and for each command part we had to give a negative conclusion ....
          Meanwhile, the head of the design bureau did everything to compromise our conclusion, set his designers against us, and tried to enlist support in other design bureaus. The cause shed light on the reasons for his unkindness, if not outright hostility. Once I noticed a cannon under a tarp and asked to open it. Factory workers had to fulfill my request. Under the tarpaulin was a Czech mountain cannon. So much for the originality of 7-1! I asked that the head of the design bureau be invited to the workshop. When he saw me near the open Czech cannon, I turned around without saying a word and left. I was deeply outraged not by the fact that the scheme of someone else’s gun was used, but by the fact that the designer, endowed with power and responsibility, was so shamelessly lying.
          At the technical meeting of the plant, I presented our conclusion on the design. Only caliber and wheels remained from the gun, and this was not the merit of the design bureau: the caliber was specified by the customer, and the wheels were designed by a design bureau under the guidance of Rosenberg, which specialized in the design of running gears, front end of guns and charging boxes. At the same meeting, I outlined our proposals for the design of a 76 mm mountain cannon. One copy of these documents was left at the factory, the other was transferred to Vannikov. Boris Lvovich confirmed our conclusions, then he called the head of the Main Artillery Directorate with me. GAU agreed with the proposal to design a new mountain cannon according to our scheme. This gun [265] was created, received an index of 7-2 and was adopted ...
          For me, this case became a weighty reinforcement of the rule, which was unshakable for our entire design bureau: no one is forbidden in any way to use schemes of rational designs of other machines, both his own and others, when designing, but no one is allowed to use proven structural design schemes make it worse. "Grabin GF" Arms of Victory "
          1. 0
            27 September 2017 16: 32
            However, he did not write a WORD about his own "STAR DISEASE" and competition with other designers.
            1. +3
              27 September 2017 16: 47
              Quote: hohol95
              However, he did not write a WORD about his own "STAR DISEASE" and competition with other designers.

              I do not think that the “stardom” of V. Grabin prevented him from creating and putting on stream, probably, the most successful field “division” ZIS-3. F-34, ZiS-5 and ZiS-2 ultimately perpetuated the memory of him as a designer and administrator.
              Of the 140 thousand field guns that our soldiers fought during World War II, more than 90 thousand were made at the factory, which was headed by V.G. Grabin (Volga Region), and 30 thousand were made according to Grabin's designs on others factories of the country.
              1. 0
                27 September 2017 21: 41
                To the field and anti-tank guns of the head of TsAKB there are NO questions! The guns fought the whole war and rumbled in the den of the "beast" Berlin! But on the issue of guns for tanks and self-propelled guns, not everything is so "cloudless". To push through the projects of his design bureau, Grabin used his authority 100%!
                1. +1
                  27 September 2017 21: 48
                  Quote: hohol95
                  constructor




                  But doesn’t it seem strange or illogical to you that Genius created “masterpieces” in the field of anti-tank guns or field guns ... and outright crap in the field of tank guns ... doesn’t happen like that ... these are very close guns ...



                  Either sucks weren’t so sucky .. or brilliant PT and field were not so "brilliant" ...
                  1. 0
                    27 September 2017 23: 01
                    Ingenious or not ingenious - THEY won the war, not the different Pak, Flak and other leFHs.
                    1. +2
                      27 September 2017 23: 13
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Ingenious or not ingenious - THEY won the war, not the different Pak, Flak and other leFHs.




                      And what does this prove? .... here the Afghan peasants also won the war against the superpower of the USSR ... does this mean that their weapons were better than the products of the USSR military-industrial complex?
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017 12: 59
                        So the Vietnamese peasants won, and they were destroyed much stronger than the Afghan Basmachi!
                        "Afghan broth" is very sharp and strong. A mixture of religious and clan kneading, support from outside, misses and frank jambs of the Soviet leadership! And this "broth" is still boiling! And Vietnam lives and enjoys the world!
                      2. 0
                        28 September 2017 13: 02
                        This proves that not a weapon howls! And people with these weapons!
                        And if someone is not happy with our equipment and weapons - LET CREATE YOURSELF OR BUY FROM OTHERS!
                        Or does it for others with "subservient humility walking in black overalls."
                      3. 0
                        30 September 2017 11: 23
                        Afghan peasants won nothing; they worked quietly all these years. Al Qaeda fighters and gangs of American mercenaries fought. Osama Ben Laden then organized his Al Qaeda with sponsors from the CIA.
                    2. ogi
                      +1
                      28 September 2017 09: 23
                      Quote: hohol95
                      they won the war

                      I'm sorry, what? Grabin's guns won the war?
                      But what about the British and Americans? They did not use Grabin’s guns, as I recall. Even licensed copies. Even pirated.
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017 13: 07
                        And you do not combine the Second WORLD with the Great Patriotic War!
                        When did World War II end? September 2, 1945
                        The Great Patriotic War - MAY 9, 1945!
                        But we didn’t use the British and American FIELD tools!
                        No licensed copies. Not pirated.
                    3. +3
                      28 September 2017 12: 15
                      Quote: hohol95
                      Ingenious or not ingenious - THEY won the war, not the different Pak, Flak and other leFHs.

                      We must thank Comrade Stukhachevsky, who was trying to multiply the red artillery of the Red Army, Kurchevsky to help him ...
                    4. ogi
                      0
                      28 September 2017 17: 30
                      Quote: hohol95
                      And you do not combine the Second WORLD with the Great Patriotic War!

                      You are right, for the USSR, the Second World War is a slightly different concept than 2MB. Because in addition to the European phase of the WW2 (from 24.09.1941 until 08.05.45), it also includes the Soviet-German war of 1941. (from June 22.06 to September 24.09). And the war with Japan, excludes.
                      But what about the backbone of the victory ridge (in your version), Grabin’s cannons? In Europe, as I recall, there were 4 main winners. And only one of them used these van der wafers. How could others manage?
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017 23: 12
                        Others used Wunderwaffles of OWN preparation or copy-paste from each other. the British have the Americans. The Americans have the British! Throwing his junk to the Frenchman in 1940, they collected "charitable help" from the British and Americans.
                        What about Japanese guns you haven’t even mentioned a word and compared with the guns of other countries!
                      2. ogi
                        0
                        29 September 2017 00: 32
                        Quote: hohol95
                        Do the French guns copied? The Japanese? Italians?
                        If so, indicate the model of the gun.

                        Simply and easily.
                        Forty, this is the 47 mm naval gun of Hotchkiss arr. Set by the Germans on a field carriage. 1885
                        "Colonel", this is the Russian "short" three-inch Schneider, if not mistaken.
                        Three-inch, this is a French field gun arr. 1897
                        The 76 mm mountain gun described here is Czech.
                        All 76 and 85 mm anti-aircraft guns, this is the German 88 mm FlaK18 in a slightly castrated form. And all tank 85 mm, they are from 85 mm 52-K anti-aircraft guns.
                        100 mm gun had Italian sea roots.
                        The only domestic development was the completely awkward and clumsy 57 mm ZIS-2 gun.
                    5. ogi
                      0
                      28 September 2017 23: 15
                      Quote: hohol95
                      copy-paste from each other. the British have the Americans. The Americans have the British!

                      But you are not embarrassed by the fact that no one copied past Soviet? That's because the Red Army allegedly had just a wonderful weapon. And no one copied it. Why's that?
                      1. 0
                        28 September 2017 23: 50
                        Personally, this does not bother me at all and does not bother or excite me!
                        Do the French guns copied? The Japanese? Italians?
                        If so, indicate the model of the gun.
                2. ogi
                  0
                  28 September 2017 09: 22
                  Quote: hohol95
                  To the field and anti-tank guns of the head of TsAKB there are NO questions!

                  Yes?
                  Quote: hohol95
                  The guns fought the whole war and rumbled in the den of the "beast" Berlin!

                  You never know what and where it "rattled". What is this “argument”? There, the three-line "rumbled." And PPSh. Will you say that this is a good weapon?
              2. ogi
                0
                28 September 2017 09: 20
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                to him to create and put on stream, probably the most successful field “division” ZiS-3

                Learn. And it will open to you. Then you will not write such nonsense.
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                F-34, ZiS-5 and ZiS-2 ultimately perpetuated the memory of him as a designer and administrator.

                The correct assessment of this "artillery" is yet to come. In post-Soviet times.
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                more than 90 thousand were made at the factory, which was headed by V. G. Grabin as the Chief Designer

                Designers do not run factories. This time.
                If he would make iron pitchforks and braids, he could make them not 90 thousand, but 9 million. And then he would be a “super-shaggy vaasche”. These are two.
                You do not pay attention to quantity, but to quality.
                1. +5
                  28 September 2017 12: 07
                  Quote: ogi
                  Learn. And it will open to you.

                  Sin, unclean .....
                2. 0
                  30 September 2017 11: 17
                  You never know what and where it "rattled". What is this “argument”? There, the three-line "rumbled." And PPSh. Will you say that this is a good weapon?
                  why is it bad? so that there is no "made in USA" mark on it? you only consider such weapons to be good, I understand correctly? the mosquito is still in service, in the United States, by the way, they are willing to buy it.
                  1. ogi
                    0
                    30 September 2017 11: 43
                    Quote: marder7
                    why is it bad?

                    Their performance characteristics.
                    Quote: marder7
                    so that there is no "made in USA" mark on it?

                    Not necessary. But all kinds of correct brands, it is a guarantee of product quality. Both constructive and industrial.
                    Quote: marder7
                    you only consider such weapons to be good, I understand correctly?

                    It depends on what area of ​​application. During the war, the Yankees artillery was frankly not very. Shooting, on the contrary, is very good. So, in different ways.
                    Quote: marder7
                    the mosquito is still in service

                    Who?
                    Quote: marder7
                    in the US, by the way, they are willing to buy it

                    Why not? It’s worth a penny, a little penny ammo (the USSR once made it “into the warehouse” of both). Why not buy, and even cheaper than the cost? But how does this mean that the three-ruler is a good infantry weapon?
                    By the way, against the background of Soviet self-propelled guns, the three-line still looks good. TTX, although not very, but at least it is an outdated niche army product. And not the Soviet exotic "remake". "Unparalleled in the world" simply because the world often didn’t need such products.
                    1. 0
                      30 September 2017 20: 21
                      and what TTX are “bad” in your opinion at PPSh? Mosinki?
                      why is mr 40 better? or Mauser 89 k?
                      1. ogi
                        0
                        1 October 2017 10: 12
                        Quote: marder7
                        and what TTX are “bad” in your opinion at PPSh?

                        PPSh has a sports cartridge. Have you anywhere else seen army weapons on a sports cartridge? Except the USSR?
                        Quote: marder7
                        Mosinki?

                        I don’t know, and the world doesn’t know such a rifle as a mosquito. If you are about the three-ruler, then this is the Nagant rifle primitivized to the limit. It may be from such an extreme simplification that it has become easier to manufacture. But her performance characteristics suffered very much. As a result, the rifle was not very. Worse than foreign counterparts.
                        Quote: marder7
                        why is mr 40 better?

                        He had an army cartridge. Not the best of those times. But nonetheless.
                        Quote: marder7
                        or Mauser 89 k?

                        Among the main participants of WW2 in Europe, Mauser was the second in terms of sludge. After the three-line.
        3. ogi
          0
          28 September 2017 09: 15
          Quote: DimerVladimer
          Goofy gun - an ill-conceived, poorly executed compilation of a Czech gun.

          The recoil momentum was extremely strong for a gun of such weight and such recoil devices. Therefore shoot out of her full charge It was very, very difficult. To make such a gun without DT was crazy.
  2. +6
    26 September 2017 09: 51
    At the command of the gunner, with the help of the RULE (a relative of the crowbar) inserted into the back of the carriage, the correct one rotated the gun in the horizontal plane.

    No, it’s not a “plug-in cousin of scrap”, it’s a part of the bed
    It’s just that on this GP it’s removable, and apparently removed so that it doesn’t attach legs. Because the hole for the rule and the stopper are in place.

    The purpose of the rule is, first of all, pulling out an entrenched opener (openers) when changing the firing sector. A turn can also be done using the handles on the beds

    Somewhat archaic

    No way. Rules were on all Soviet guns, including post-war ones. True, not removable, but folding. Until the moment when the beds became so heavy that to pull out the coulters it was necessary to use folding rack jacks, as it was done on 2A65 (aka Msta-B)
  3. +2
    26 September 2017 10: 51
    Please explain the term “quarter-machine”.
    1. +6
      26 September 2017 12: 00
      The semi-automatic shutter itself closes after releasing the sleeve, after the shot itself opens and throws it away
      The quarter-automatic had to be opened after a manual shot. Closed, respectively, himself.
      There were also three-quarters-automatic ones, which also fired after the retreat. But they did not receive distribution because of their inadequacy. The trunks of even heavy guns immediately after loading experience fluctuations. And such automation reduced accuracy. In addition, greatly straining the loader in terms of security. It was urgent to roll aside after loading, so that when the rollback the breech did not enter the person with the subsequent "addition" in the form of a flying sleeve.
  4. 0
    26 September 2017 12: 19
    Shot, only from the cord. Apparently, "kicked" heavily when fired.
    1. +2
      26 September 2017 13: 16
      Quote: Spade
      Shot, only from the cord. Apparently, "kicked" heavily when fired.

      The consequences of increasing the initial velocity of the projectile apparently ...
      1. +5
        26 September 2017 13: 41
        Quote: NIKNN
        The consequences of increasing the initial velocity of the projectile apparently ...

        Rather, a complex of reasons.
        Firstly, easy.
        Secondly, because of again the requirements for the minimum possible weight, less effective recoil.
        Thirdly, relatively short beds. Because of which the gun should more "goat"
        Fourth, a relatively small opener, and even in the mountains, he often has nothing to cling to.

        Apparently because of this, they decided, out of sin, to fire only from the cord. Unless the first was done with a long one, and then most likely they used a shorter one. Often it’s inconvenient to run with a long gunner, and the “free ends” are unacceptable from a safety point of view.
        1. +5
          26 September 2017 14: 14
          Quote: Spade
          Rather, a complex of reasons.

          You should write articles on artillery. I read your comments with great pleasure and gain knowledge no less than from reading other articles. hi
        2. +2
          26 September 2017 16: 29
          The 76-mm gun model 1938 of the year used its own, not interchangeable with other guns shots. The shots were completed in unitary cartridges, and some liners had a removable bottom, which made it possible to remove extra beams of powder and shoot with reduced charges. The sleeve is brass, weighing 1,4 kg.
          The variable charge Ж-356 was used for firing high-explosive fragmentation, incendiary and smoke projectiles, was packaged in sleeves with a removable bottom. When firing a full charge, the beams were not taken out of the sleeve, the initial velocity of the high-explosive fragmentation projectile was 500 m / s, when firing the first charge, the top beam was taken out, the initial speed was 330 m / s, and when shooting the third charge, the top and middle beam were taken out The initial speed was 260 m / s.

          Please, if you can in more detail about the removable bottom. It’s somehow hard to imagine a removable bottom.

          Extreme sleeve to the right of the mountains. guns 1909 The rest are from the mountains. guns 1938
          1. +2
            26 September 2017 20: 27
            Specially downloaded a guide to 76-mm shells. There is nothing like that. Neither a "removable bottom" nor a variable charge. Apparently, the museum workers have mixed up something.

            Perhaps this is due to the fact that attempts were made to unscrew the capsule sleeve (here it is, the "removable bottom"), to pierce the paper circle sticking the firing hole and pour out part of the powder, which was loose in the sleeve. (Well, except for a bunch of "cordite gunpowder brand WM" in a cumulative shot, second from the left)
            Thus, the initial one was reduced, which gave a more hinged trajectory. If you do everything neatly and with good pharmacy scales, after shooting you could get there. Although the first shot in this case would be very approximate.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +6
    26 September 2017 16: 29
    The gun also fought in Afghanistan. In the early 80s, about 20 76-mm mountain guns E-2 with BHVT Zak-VO were transferred to the government forces of Afghanistan.

    Kunar Province, 1984-1985
    1. +1
      27 September 2017 10: 34
      interesting infra !!
  7. +2
    26 September 2017 17: 07
    interesting gun
  8. 0
    27 September 2017 10: 33
    these guns took part in the first salute in honor of the liberation of Orel and Belgorod, according to the memoirs of Zhuravlev, the head of the Moscow air defense zone in the Kremlin, there were 24 mountain guns. When calculating the number of volleys taking into account the presence of idle charges, they were also counted
  9. 0
    28 September 2017 15: 01
    I would like to see a comparison with some analogue, preferably German of course)))
  10. +1
    3 October 2017 11: 44
    ogi,
    PPSh has a sports cartridge. Have you anywhere else seen army weapons on a sports cartridge? Except the USSR?
    "sports" cartridge? sporting cartridges do not pierce the steel helmet with the head on which it is worn! 7.62x25 more powerful than 9 mm "parabelum" worse stopping effect is yes, but from this it does not cease to be a live cartridge.
    I don’t know, and the world doesn’t know such a rifle as a mosquito.
    do not align yourself and the whole world. this is called megalomania! to the doctor would you. to the psychiatrist. or even immediately to a therapist.
  11. +1
    29 July 2018 09: 34
    When I served in Armenia (Red Banner ZakVO), we had a battery of 76 mm mountain cannons of the 1958 2A2 (M99) model in our regiment. GAZ-66 was used as transport, but pack animals could also be used if necessary.

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