Tarutinsky maneuver Kutuzov: saved Russia and Europe

113
Tarutinsky maneuver Kutuzov: saved Russia and Europe


“Moscow is the sponge that will suck Napoleon into itself”, - the commander-in-chief of the Russian army, Mikhail Kutuzov, despite the fact that most of the generals from among those taking part in the Council in Fili, were in favor of the battle for the French near Moscow, decided to leave the ancient capital.



It is difficult to say at what point Kutuzov conceived the plan of retreat, some historians suggest that before the Council. The main task in the implementation of this plan - the withdrawal along the Ryazan road, was to prevent the enemy from entering the southern regions of the country, where there were food supplies, Tula weapons factories and the Bryansk arsenal.

To do this, it was necessary to pass unnoticed from the Ryazan road, on which our army began the withdrawal of Moscow, to Kaluzhskaya, which was brilliantly done. The field marshal, fearing to be attacked on the march, took unprecedented security measures: the crossings were made only at night, and before entering the village, they sent scouts to find out from the peasants whether they were French.

Kutuzov was not deceived, Moscow sucked the Europeans, in anticipation of the surrender of Alexander I, they began to plunder, and the deceptive movements of the Russian divisions misinformed the French.

Thus, the departure of the two cavalry regiments along the Vladimir road was made by the French avant-garde of General Clapareda as a movement of the whole army. The units of General Sebastiani, the Cossack detachment of Yefremov, who continued the false retreat along the Ryazan road, were also deceived, they were taken for the Russian rearguard.

On September 21, Marshal Murat reported to Napoleon that the Russian army had escaped. Concerned Napoleon in her search sent large detachments that discovered the Russian army far from immediately.

Kutuzov’s maneuver lasted more than a week; during the march the field marshal had not only to fear the French, but also to restrain the “onslaught” of his own general. Chief of Staff Leonty Bennigsen (he was the main opponent of the abandonment of Moscow) offered to give the battle to the French avant-garde at the Red Pakhra, which was a risky operation.

But the report came in time from Lieutenant Colonel Garting, who reported that Tarutino had an excellent position, and the Russian army on October 3 camped near this village.

In Tarutino, which became the main stronghold of Russia, preparations began for action: the army was quickly replenished, a guerrilla war unfolded.

From Tarutino Michael Illarionovich wrote to the emperor: "Now, in the near distance from Moscow, having gathered my troops, I can expect an enemy with a firm foot, and so long as your Imperial Majesty’s army is intact and driven by famous bravery and our diligence, until then the loss of Moscow is not a loss of the Fatherland."

The French offensive against St. Petersburg was disrupted, and the Murat corps, which had attacked the Russian army near Tarutin on October 6, was defeated. From this day began the triumphal expulsion of Napoleon from the borders of the Fatherland.

In 1834, in Tarutino, a funds raised by peasants erected a monument with the inscription: "In this place, the Russian army led by Field Marshal Kutuzov, resilient, saved Russia and Europe."
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  1. +5
    1 October 2017 07: 12
    Suvorov school, but Kutuzov and it surpassed. A.V. Suvorov won the battle, and M.I. Kutuzov won the war. It is not for nothing that the Order of Kutuzov in the USSR has a status higher than the Order of Suvorov.
    1. +3
      1 October 2017 07: 19
      Field Marshal Kutuzov has always been a sly fox in diplomacy and of course in martial art. Favorite student of the genius commander Generalissimo A.V.Suvorov.
      1. Cat
        +4
        1 October 2017 09: 41
        Quote: Spartanez300
        Favorite student of the genius commander Generalissimo A.V.Suvorov.

        As far as I know, contemporaries called Prince Bagration the beloved student of A.S. Suvorov.
        Moreover, deny Suvorov the gift of diplomacy? .... his policy in Poland, in Wallachia, on the territory of Crimea and the Nogai steppe, even in Venice and Switzerland, always found the response of local residents and left a good reputation for Russian miraculous heroes.
        1. 0
          1 October 2017 14: 39
          All orders for the Russian Army, by Alexander 1m, were written in French. Not a single one was found in Russian. Apparently Alexander the 1st, so "hated the enemy" of his Napoleon, that he even issued his orders in the language of his enemy, so that these orders would be difficult for his troops understand.
    2. +9
      1 October 2017 07: 50
      Well, I don’t know which side Kutuzov surpassed Suvorov. In my opinion, this is a very bold statement. Suvorov did not lose a single battle, and as far as I remember there were 60. Suvorov won "not by number, but by skill." In almost all battles, the number of Suvorov's troops was less than that of the enemy. Therefore, the Order of Suvorov is given for the victory over superior enemy forces. But with comrade Kutuzov, not everything is so smooth. And the actions of Kutuzov in the war of 1812 have an ambiguous assessment among researchers of the Patriotic War. By the way, in the memoirs of one of Napoleon's marshals (forgot his name) it was written that Napoleon was afraid of Suvorov and did not want to start a war with Russia. And only after the death of the Generalissimo began to consider such a possibility.
      So from my bell tower Kutuzov did not even stand next to Suvorov. However, not a single Russian commander was standing next to him. And maybe the world.
      1. 0
        1 October 2017 08: 36
        Dear Varyag, take a closer look at my comment about wars and battles. Why did I underestimate A.V. Suvorov?
      2. +2
        1 October 2017 10: 02
        Quote: Varyag77
        So from my bell tower Kutuzov did not even stand next to Suvorov.

        I subscribe to every word
        1. avt
          +3
          1 October 2017 10: 20
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          I subscribe to every word

          They are generally of a different profile in life, although they are warriors. bully Kutuzov was more like a courtier and diplomat, and the womanizer was excellent. Yes! Also ... MVDshnik was not bad,
          Well, in terms of putting things in order with unbridled raiders.
          Quote: Varyag77
          And the actions of Kutuzov in the war of 1812 have an ambiguous assessment among researchers of the Patriotic War.

          The assessment is generally the same - he won the campaign. The price of the issue is Moscow. BUT for the sake of justice - Kutuzov brilliantly fulfilled the war plan with Boney developed before the company began. Which, unlike Barclay, he managed to bring to his subordinates and achieve authority by force of authority. Fact -Bonya was afraid to take Moscow by storm. There was enough of a conditioned reflex near Smolensk, which he did not take - Barclay passed in accordance with the campaign plan approved by Sanya No. 1. Now estimate - what would happen if instead of Borodin they would give a fight in Moscow. Then Murat seemed to give the back for only one demand of Miloradovich. - You won’t leave, I won’t leave and I will give the fight. And he is behind! So much so that for a while they lost the direction of the army's withdrawal! So the plan approved by the tsar Kutuzov executed brilliantly. As well as before the campaign, he ended the war with the Turks with a no less successful diplomatic victory. True, the troops under the command of Tormasov could not pull up to 1 and 2, but the fact is - these parts were aimed at directing the main blow to Russia precisely thanks to the successful diplomatic mission led by Kutuzov.
          1. +1
            1 October 2017 11: 38
            Quote: avt
            The price of the question is Moscow.

            "The losses of the parties in the battle of Borodino were enormous: the Russians 58 thousand, the French over 50 thousands. Both the French and the Russians considered themselves victorious. Following the battle of Kutuzov, he told the king about the victory and on the same day the king granted him the rank of Field Marshal and 100 thousand rubles of money, and every soldier 5 rubles. The great Napoleon later appreciated the outcome of the battle: “the French in it proved themselves worthy to win, and the Russians gained the right to be invincible.” But the French army was dealt a mortal blow, from which it not with Kutuzov realized that the army would not survive the second battle, the reserves were exhausted. It took time to replenish the army. September 1 The military council was held in Fili, before which almost all generals were determined to take on a new battle But during the council, Barclay de Tolly managed to convince some of the generals that it was more important to keep the army, replenish it with reserves and continue the war.After the military council in Fili, the Commander-in-Chief, taking upon himself the entire burden of responsibility, decided to retreat and surrender enemy Moscow. This heavy news the emperor received on September 1812, just a week after receiving the joyful news of victory at Borodino. In one night, the head of Alexander I turned gray. September 17 Russian army began to leave Moscow. Together with her, “women, merchants and scientists” left Belokamennaya, by definition of the mayor F.V. Rastopchina. Evacuation led Barclay de Tolly. Kutuzov, avoiding meetings, left the capital alone, accompanied by his orderly. He was unbearable to hear reproaches and accusations, to see the tears of old soldiers, moaning was among the people. On this day, the words sounded: "Treason, horror, shame, shame ...". There was no treason, but there was horror, shame and shame. More than 2 thousands of wounded lower ranks remained in the hospitals, only officers and noblemen were evacuated. “My soul was being torn apart by the moans of the wounded who are left in the power of the enemy,” recalled A.P. Ermolov. Miloradovich managed to agree with Murat on a quiet withdrawal of troops from the city. However, the French and were not eager to fight, victory seemed close to them. Murat gave a rejection, allowing the Cossacks to take their wounded, and promised to take care of other wounded. But the fire ignited by the Muscovites themselves did not allow them to render the help that was promised. During the negotiations on the suspension of hostile actions, the Cossacks expressed their admiration and delight to Murat, who was always dressed very effectively and was in front of the avant-garde. In response, Murat gave the Cossacks money and hours. Got a watch and ataman Platov. In response, he said: “I have long recognized Your Majesty, you are the King of Naples. The difference between us is that from the Neman I see you always in front of your army, while I have been behind our three months already ... ”
            But the decision of the wise old commander was justified and far-sighted. Entering Moscow, Napoleon was trapped. Most of the population left it, and soon a terrible all-consuming fire began, Moscow residents set fire to themselves. Of course, the surrender of Moscow is the great self-sacrifice of the country. The French, having entered Moscow, were able to acquire large trophies: 156 cannons, 75 thousand guns, 40 thousand sabers and 22,5 thousands of wounded warriors. But most of this, including food warehouses, hospitals and hospitals, burned down during a powerful Moscow fire. Then the country was unable to appreciate, forgive and understand this great sacrifice, and Moscow mayor F.V., the main inspirer, ideologue and organizer of this great sacrifice trezn. After the war, Rostopchin was subjected to harsh and unpleasant criticism from all sides. As a result, he became seriously ill and was forced to leave the country. Only many years later, when the passions subsided, Count F.V. Rostopchin returned to his homeland where in 1823 and died. "
            1. +1
              1 October 2017 12: 31
              According to the memoirs of the military, who were with Kutuzov in the same hut in Fili, Kutuzov did not sleep all night after the military council in Fili, walked around the room and even cried several times ... It was so hard for him to leave Moscow.
        2. +5
          1 October 2017 12: 30
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Varyag77
          So from my bell tower Kutuzov did not even stand next to Suvorov.

          I subscribe to every word

          Without begging the merits of Mikhail Illarionovich, there is an abyss between Suvorov and Kutuzov. Alexander Vasilievich is a unique phenomenon in world military history. Personally, I have no one to compare him with. Rather, you can certainly compare it, but any comparison will not be correct. All the great commanders “for some reason part-time” were kings, emperors, dictators, or at worst, princes or dukes. That is, they could fix their flaws with the resource of the country they controlled. Suvorov did not have such an opportunity. Managed the opposite of them. Moreover, they managed mediocrely (remember the betrayal of the Austrians in the Swiss campaign, but still got out!) He had no right to make a mistake, and vice versa, he had to correct the mistakes of others. There are many examples.
          1. +2
            1 October 2017 13: 04
            Quote: Proxima
            Without begging the merits of Mikhail Illarionovich, between Suvorov and Kutuzov abyss.

            Muscovites themselves hated Kutuzov so much that they did not allow any monuments to be erected in his city in his city, right up to 1917. Their long-preserved memory of the city burned down in 1812 did not allow them to have any positive attitude towards this commander. Now almost everyone has already forgotten about it.
            1. Cat
              +1
              1 October 2017 14: 02
              And yet M.I. Kutuzov is the savior of the Fatherland!
      3. 0
        1 October 2017 14: 07
        Quote: Varyag77
        . By the way, in the memoirs of one of Napoleon’s marshals (forgot his name) it was written that Napoleon was afraid of Suvorov and did not want to start a war with Russia. And only after the death of the Generalissimo began to consider such a possibility.

        But Suvorov, on the contrary, "wanted to teach a boy a lesson." But it did not work out. In general, the course of events showed that Moreau was to become a dictator in France, but it didn’t add up - he ran into Suvorov.
        1. +2
          1 October 2017 17: 00
          All the difference with Buonaparte is that Moro did not want to be a dictator. And he was doubly unlucky with Suvorov - he was sent 2 times to correct other people's mistakes - Scherer at Trebbia and Joubert at Novi.
          It is clear that Suvorov did not give him such an opportunity.
          1. 0
            1 October 2017 17: 50
            Quote: sivuch
            All the difference with Buonaparte is that Moro did not want to be a dictator.

            So did not want that on October 23, 1812 he proclaimed himself president of the Republic of France. True, this "republic" existed for a few hours (the coup was suppressed), but nonetheless ..
            Quote: sivuch
            And he was doubly unlucky with Suvorov - he was sent 2 times to correct other people's mistakes - Scherer at Trebbia and Joubert at Novi. It is clear that Suvorov did not give him such an opportunity.

            Partly agree with you. But, let's take with you a specific battle between Suvorov and Moreau, namely, the battle on the Adda River. (Image of this battle post below). What “eggs" prevented Moreau from winning her?
            Yes, the Russian-Austrian forces had a numerical superiority, but this is not the main thing. The main thing is that it is extremely difficult to manage by combined forces (Austerlitz is a prime example). Only the highest skill of Suvrov leveled this flaw.
            Most importantly: the French stood in front of the Adda River, that is, Suvorov needed to force it!
            When the army of Suvorov, taking the fortresses of Brescia and Bergamo, reached the left bank of the Adda River. On the right (steep) coast, stretching for 100 km, stood the French army. Having decided to take advantage of such a stretch of the French army, Suvorov sent a detachment of General Bagration to his left flank, which successfully attacked and captured the city of Lecco, thereby distracting part of the French army from the center to the flank.
            At this time, the Suvorov troops began to cross the river Addu at Brivio, Cassano and Lodi. Meanwhile, Suvorov, along with part of the army, secretly crossed over Addu in the center of French positions (near San Gervasio) and began to push the French from the river, overcoming their stubborn resistance. Another part of the troops crossed the Cassano area and went to the rear of the French. Towards evening, the retreat of the French army from all positions began. The next day, the last centers of resistance of the French were suppressed: the French troops were defeated at Brivio and Verderio.

            After the victory at Adda, Russian troops took Milan. The battle was an example of the skillful use of troops on a wide front, the skill of forcing the river, a combination of main and secondary strikes.
            1. +1
              2 October 2017 00: 03
              Are you talking about the Mole plot? And where was Moro himself at that time?
              1. 0
                2 October 2017 15: 08
                Quote: sivuch
                Are you talking about the Mole plot? And where was Moro himself at that time?

                If Moro was next to Male, then he would be shot along with Male and other conspirators. He naturally knew about the upcoming coup, but most likely was not dedicated to the details. President Moreau was also proclaimed with his "modest" consent.
                And you know - in many ways you are right. If Moro had at least a tenth of the manic thirst for power, like Bonaparte, then he would have been the dictator of France. He has too many advantages than Napoleon.
          2. +2
            1 October 2017 23: 48
            By the way, he was mistaken and no one corrected: Scherer - with Adda.
        2. +1
          1 October 2017 17: 25
          Quote: Proxima
          Quote: Varyag77
          . By the way, in the memoirs of one of Napoleon’s marshals (forgot his name) it was written that Napoleon was afraid of Suvorov and did not want to start a war with Russia. And only after the death of the Generalissimo began to consider such a possibility.

          But Suvorov, on the contrary, "wanted to teach a boy a lesson." But it did not work out. In general, the course of events showed that Moreau was to become a dictator in France, but it didn’t add up - he ran into Suvorov.




          In order to teach Suvorov a lesson and defeat him, Massena, the second-rate player, was enough ... it’s not to play war games
          1. +2
            1 October 2017 18: 26
            Quote: Gransasso
            In order to teach Suvorov a lesson and defeat him, Massena, the second-rate player, was enough ... it’s not to play war games

            I dare to remind you that the "half-dead Turks" beat the Austrians in the tail and mane. And vice versa, the same Austrian commander earlier with Suvorov inflicted enchanting defeat on the Turks at Rymnik. The Russians there was only a 7-thousandth detachment + skill and determination of Suvorov. Unlike you, Catherine and the Austrian emperor did not consider the Turks “half-dead” and he was elevated by Catherine II to the rank of count with the name Rymniksky for the victory in her; , precious ring and Order of St. George 1st degree. Emperor Joseph II granted Suvorov the title of Count of the Holy Roman Empire.
            And finally, the second: remember the battle in which Massen's “second-rate” (in fact, a very decent commander) defeated Suvorov?
            1. +1
              1 October 2017 20: 32
              Quote: Proxima
              Quote: Gransasso
              In order to teach Suvorov a lesson and defeat him, Massena, the second-rate player, was enough ... it’s not to play war games

              I dare to remind you that the "half-dead Turks" beat the Austrians in the tail and mane. And vice versa, the same Austrian commander earlier with Suvorov inflicted enchanting defeat on the Turks at Rymnik. The Russians there was only a 7-thousandth detachment + skill and determination of Suvorov. Unlike you, Catherine and the Austrian emperor did not consider the Turks “half-dead” and he was elevated by Catherine II to the rank of count with the name Rymniksky for the victory in her; , precious ring and Order of St. George 1st degree. Emperor Joseph II granted Suvorov the title of Count of the Holy Roman Empire.
              And finally, the second: remember the battle in which Massen's “second-rate” (in fact, a very decent commander) defeated Suvorov?




              Well, the awards in those days ... the thing is ... Alexander 1, after defeating Austerlitz, also issued one of the highest orders of the empire to Kutuzov ...


              Skvorov fought with the Turks along with the Austrians ... but somehow his Austrian colleagues didn’t write down their victories for those victories ... even they themselves ... more modest as they were ... and they probably apprehended the price of these victories ... and the regalia from Katerina .. who just didn’t get them from her ... with her and Platosha Zubov (this is the little guy Kutuzov served and wore coffee in bed) was listed in the Genius ....


              Well, Suvorov didn’t have such a general battle with Massena ... Suvorov ran from the mountains for three weeks from him .. until he lost the army
            2. +1
              1 October 2017 20: 35
              PS Massena is a second-rate player compared to Napoleon ... and yes ... a good general ... better than Suvorov, for sure ... and Rimsky-Korsakov ... that he proved by deeds on the battlefield ...
              1. +3
                1 October 2017 21: 02
                Quote: Gransasso
                PS Massena is a second-rate player compared to Napoleon ... and yes ... a good general ... better than Suvorov, for sure ... and Rimsky-Korsakov ... that he proved by deeds on the battlefield ...

                This is when Massena defeated Suvorov? Maybe in that battle, where did he run away, leaving his epaulette in the hands of our soldier?
                1. +1
                  2 October 2017 14: 48
                  Quote: mordvin xnumx
                  Quote: Gransasso
                  PS Massena is a second-rate player compared to Napoleon ... and yes ... a good general ... better than Suvorov, for sure ... and Rimsky-Korsakov ... that he proved by deeds on the battlefield ...

                  This is when Massena defeated Suvorov? Maybe in that battle, where did he run away, leaving his epaulette in the hands of our soldier?

                  A very famous fact. Maybe again this pasta give evidence to the studio?
          2. +3
            1 October 2017 20: 15
            Quote: Gransasso
            In order to teach Suvorov a lesson and defeat him, the second-rate Massena was enough.

            That's what Massena himself said, that he would give all his victories in one Swiss campaign of Suvorov!
            1. +1
              1 October 2017 20: 23
              Quote: Weyland
              Quote: Gransasso
              In order to teach Suvorov a lesson and defeat him, the second-rate Massena was enough.

              That's what Massena himself said, that he would give all his victories in one Swiss campaign of Suvorov!




              Yes? ... how interesting .... and when, to whom and where did Massena say that ... supposedly ... a quote can be?
              1. +2
                1 October 2017 23: 28
                Quote: Gransasso
                When, to whom and where did Massena say this ... supposedly ... can I quote?

                Have you been banned in Google? The quote is widely known - google yourself!
                In general, when our great commanders are criticized by representatives of heroic Italy - it causes only laughter!
                If Italy entered the World War and ended it on the same side - it means she betrayed twice! laughing
      4. +2
        1 October 2017 15: 38
        Quote: Varyag77
        By the way, in the memoirs of one of Napoleon's marshals (forgot his name) it was written that Napoleon was afraid of Suvorov and did not want to start a war with Russia. And only after the death of the Generalissimo began to consider such a possibility.

        Napoleon, when he was not yet a dictator, can be compared with his direct competitor to usurp power in France - with General Moreau. And the comparison will not be in Napoleon's favor.
        Take the Austrian company of 1800, for example. The Directory sent a more worthy (in its opinion) general to the main Northwest theater of operations, that is, General Moreau, and Bonoparte, respectively, to the auxiliary theater. And Moreau did not fail Directory's expectations. The battle of Hohenlinden was won from him completely, according to all the canons of military art.
        Another thing is the battle of Marengo, which was carried out by Napoleon. He managed to make so many mistakes unusual for the great commander - the mind is incomprehensible. The situation was saved by Dese, who was making an accelerated march to join already with the practically defeated troops of Bonoparte.
        But again, Moreau was not lucky that he ran into Suvorov in his military companies, who tore him up like a Tuzik heating pad.
        1. +1
          1 October 2017 17: 28
          "... But again, Moreau was not lucky that he ran into Suvorov in his military companies, who tore him up like a Tuzik heating pad ...."


          Moreau was not lucky to have 20-30 troops against 000-60 at Suvorov ... as soon as this numerical Lafa ended enough and not enough stars from the sky Massena to arrange the rout of the Generalissimo of Italy ...
          1. +8
            1 October 2017 17: 42
            I understand that you just want to annoy the quilted jackets? This is exactly where Suvorov had such an advantage? Even Novi, as far as I know, had no such correlation. And what Massena second-rate - is you somewhere on the site of aquarists tell.
            Yes, and Suvorov is the name of a particular person and therefore is written with a capital letter.
            1. +1
              1 October 2017 18: 30
              Quote: sivuch
              I understand that you just want to annoy the quilted jackets? This is exactly where Suvorov had such an advantage? Even Novi, as far as I know, had no such correlation. And what Massena second-rate - is you somewhere on the site of aquarists tell.
              Yes, and Suvorov is the name of a particular person and therefore is written with a capital letter.



              At the beginning of the campaign, the Russian-Austrian corps in northern Italy was about 70000.French-28.000.

              Specifically, the battle at Adda ratio was 48.000 / 28.000.

              At Novi 51.000 / 34.000


              Sources in Italian ... I can throw off if you want ...


              Massena was definitely not Napoleon ...


              About the surname with a capital letter, I am very grateful .. I did not know .. I repent ...
              1. +3
                1 October 2017 19: 20
                Suvorov had 20t of Russian troops, the Austrians obeyed very conditionally, well, he didn’t destroy any Massen, Suvorov, we read Clausewitz, and not every propaganda heresy.
                1. +1
                  1 October 2017 19: 29
                  Quote: Cartalon
                  Suvorov had 20t of Russian troops, the Austrians obeyed very conditionally, well, he didn’t destroy any Massen, Suvorov, we read Clausewitz, and not every propaganda heresy.




                  Well, of course .... the Austrians were out of business .... if they won, we don’t count them ... they appear only when they are defeated ... you need someone in the co. Scapegoat ....



                  And who, I’m embarrassed to ask, turned in three weeks Suvorov’s army into a crowd of unarmed .... who threw carts, treasury, artillery and wounded along the way ... the Holy Spirit? ....
                  1. +2
                    1 October 2017 21: 03
                    Quote: Gransasso
                    .Austrians were not at work.

                    They generally escaped.
          2. +1
            1 October 2017 21: 05
            Quote: Gransasso
            "... But again, Moreau was not lucky that he ran into Suvorov in his military companies, who tore him up like a Tuzik heating pad ...."


            Moreau was not lucky to have 20-30 troops against 000-60 at Suvorov ... as soon as this numerical Lafa ended enough and not enough stars from the sky Massena to arrange the rout of the Generalissimo of Italy ...

            Exactly the way it was ... the main thing is to be nervous ...
            But I can recall one famous meme.
            Europe offered to review the results of the Second World War .. Russia suggested to re-show ... think at your leisure .. but it looks like a howling jackal, after the death of a lion
    3. +2
      1 October 2017 10: 08
      Quote: andrewkor
      .A.V. Suvorov won the battle, and M.I. Kutuzov won the war.

      Yeah. You would think that Kutuzov began the Patriotic War with the defeat in 1805.
    4. +4
      1 October 2017 10: 11
      Not for nothing in the USSR, the Order of Kutuzov with a status above the Order of Suvorov.

      Dear "andrewkor", well, one cannot so categorically judge and proclaim that which you have a superficial understanding of ....
      If information from the Internet does not inspire confidence in you, then open the wonderful book "Orders and Medals of the USSR" published in 1974.

      Even the uninformed person can already understand from the names of military commanders what kind of military operations they were awarded .... Suvorov and Ushakov advanced and won, Kutuzov and Nakhimov, recognized masters of defense ...
      “... The Order of Kutuzov is the second“ leader ”order after the Order of Suvorov in order of establishment and seniority. This is the only Soviet order, various degrees of which were established at different times. By decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Council from 8.02.1943 on the establishment of a military order - the Order of Kutuzov of III degree and to supplement the statute of the Order of Suvorov, the III degree of the Order of Kutuzov was established, which brought it into line with the Order of Suvorov for the positions awarded. In contrast to the Order of Suvorov, the Order of Kutuzov was more “defensive” and “staff” in nature which was reflected in his Statute. It is significant that it was established by decree of 29 of July 1942 of the year, the day after the signing of Stalin's famous order No. 227 of 28 of July 1942 of the year, known in the army as the order "Not a step back!" ... . "
      From the statute of the Order of Suvorov ...
      "... For a well-organized and conducted front-line or army operation, in which a numerically superior enemy was defeated with lesser forces;
      For the skillfully conducted maneuver around the numerically superior enemy forces, the complete destruction of his manpower and the seizure of weapons and equipment;
      For showing initiative and decisiveness in choosing the location of the main attack, for delivering this strike, as a result of which the enemy was defeated, and our troops retained the combat readiness to pursue it;
      For the skillfully and covertly conducted operation, as a result of which the enemy, deprived of the opportunity to regroup and introduce reserves, was defeated .... "
      From the statute of the Order of Kutuzov ...
      "... For a well-designed and conducted front-line or army operation, as a result of which the defeat of the enemy was achieved;
      For a well-developed and implemented plan for the forced withdrawal of large formations, with the organization of massive counterattacks, inflicting heavy losses on the enemy and withdrawing their troops to new frontiers with small losses in equipment, manpower and full combat readiness;
      For skillfully organizing an operation of large formations to combat superior enemy forces, exhausting his troops, destroying manpower and equipment and keeping his troops in constant readiness for a decisive attack .... "
      "... For exceptional perseverance in counteracting the advance of the superior enemy forces, holding on to positions using a skillfully organized fire system, terrain, manpower counterattacks, tanks, aircraft, followed by a decisive and successful offensive;
      For well-organized management and creation, in a difficult battle environment, of superior forces in the decisive sector and the brutal defeat of the enemy achieved by good interaction;
      For skillfully conducting a battle surrounded by superior enemy forces and organizing a breakthrough with the withdrawal of his troops from the encirclement in full combat readiness;
      For the organization of skillful actions of their units, which ensured a successful fight against superior enemy tank or air forces, caused him great damage and forced him to retreat .... "
    5. +1
      2 October 2017 09: 01
      Quote: andrewkor
      Suvorov school, but Kutuzov and it surpassed. A.V. Suvorov won the battle, and M.I. Kutuzov won the war. It is not for nothing that the Order of Kutuzov in the USSR has a status higher than the Order of Suvorov.

      But the losses of Moscow apparently did not forgive him.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. +3
    1 October 2017 07: 19
    And the ideally chosen location of the Russian camp did not allow Napoleon to continue the offensive and forced the French army to leave along the old Smolensk road, which led through completely plundered territories.
  4. +2
    1 October 2017 07: 20
    AHAHAHA !! Well, the author made fun in the morning, wonderful! Especially hooked that the attack on Petersburg was foiled !!! Why would Napoleon attack his brother and ally Alexander1? The movement was then on the rivers, all the battles were on canals and fences. Borodino It was on the heights in Tsar Borisov. Previously, Smolenskoye, clearly beyond the headwaters of the Dnieper. Indirect, but no less interesting finds show that the goals of the joint campaign of Napoleon and Alexander were achieved, all river routes were captured and the Allied Army reached the Volga. There are two options. to choose. Or A ex hit in the back Boanoparta and defeating him appeared in Paris, for Platov was awarded in England with a sword with trousers and a post, such as a peer and the others did not offend, Prussian and other "enemy" orders and gifts. Either the second option, the French remained in occupied not all went to territories and home. From that moment, Russia spread from St. Petersburg to the whole of Muscovy and further to Siberia. Recently it was written that Arakcheev worked only in the environs of St. Petersburg before the war, he could not farther south, and after the war he rushed to equip the fortifications to the Don. about anything But. Thanks to the author for an interesting tale.
    1. +7
      1 October 2017 07: 31
      Good grass! Picky.
      Where did you get it?
      I also want to pin it up!

      (Or maybe already ... There’s some alien flag on the avatar.)
      1. 0
        1 October 2017 07: 33
        You are a drug addict, and get it yourself.
        1. +3
          1 October 2017 08: 18
          So you are also greedy?
          I’m only asking for an address. Dealer
          Your grass is really good.
          Judging by the flight of thought.
          It does not spread on the tree. Flies a free bird!
          1. Cat
            +3
            1 October 2017 09: 30
            Brothers Napoleon and Alexander

            The whole curtain further reading comments there is no sense - the curtain!
            Surrealistic stories based on speculation and fantasy kill! The principle of a series of pseudo-historians "everything was wrong" already causes not laughter, but irritation.
            To be honest, it is tempting to advise the respected "pk Oparyshev" to read ..... A. Pushkin! Or was it also rewritten?
            1. 0
              1 October 2017 12: 12
              I hope to hear from AS Pushkin about Sophie Auguste Friederike von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg, I hope you know who it is?
              1762 formed the Military Commission.
              1763may, the General Staff was formed, this is the Central Military Administration + surveyors and topographers.
              1763 September 1 preparation for war by smallpox.
              There was much more, the burning of cities and the construction of new plans, colonial affairs.
              1764, the Hermitage was created to store trophies.
              AS Pushkin writes (p.253) in The History of the Pugachev Riot that he did not read the investigation file, not daring to print it without the highest permission. And much more interesting in Arhi-Logos.
    2. 0
      1 October 2017 15: 49
      Quote: p-k Oparyshev
      AHAHAHA !! Well, the author made laugh in the morning, wonderful!

      And thank you, so much humor for dinner ...
      Quote: p-k Oparyshev
      The movement was then on the rivers, all the battles were on canals and fences.

      Now I realized that Napoleon did not know geography well and therefore, like a tractor, off-road he moved along the Smolensk (road?) Virgin forest, in search of rivers flowing towards Moscow. So lingered. A Borodino field, but the well-known draw from the river. Kolochi in the Putyatinsky stream.
      Quote: p-k Oparyshev
      Indirect but no less interesting findings show

      I guess where these findings were made ... No, say, do you have a box-box?
      Quote: p-k Oparyshev
      the goals of the joint campaign of Napoleon and Alexander were achieved, all river routes were captured and the allied Army reached the Volga
      , pulled on and disappeared into the Siberian open spaces. Maloyaroslavets is a suburb of Yaroslavl, Berezina is the proto-Russian (Aryan) name of Kama, Elba Island is located in the middle reaches of the Ob, and St. Helena is in the lower Lena. Anyway, Napoleon is the illegitimate son of Paul I, conceived on the field (hence the name, full name of Napoleonzachat), that is, Alexander’s half-brother and during the battle of Borodino they played cards for stripping together, and Alexander lost to Moscow. However, Napoleon cheated, he was a sharpie known throughout Europe, since the time of the Egyptian campaign, where the Russian Mamelukes taught him how to manipulate maps and
      Quote: p-k Oparyshev
      From that moment, Russia spread from St. Petersburg to the whole of Muscovy and further to Siberia.
      , the Moscow language was replaced by Russian and gradually came to naught, the great Moscow culture was destroyed, which is a huge loss for the legacy of proto-Russian civilization ...
      wassat wassat wassat
      1. +1
        1 October 2017 16: 34
        The historian does not stoop to sarcasm. You do not bring facts from the word at all, and puppy sarcasm replaces your knowledge. Become a man.
        1. +2
          1 October 2017 22: 26
          Quote: pp to Oparyshev
          The historian does not stoop to sarcasm.

          Everything is simple here. What is the level (by the degree of historicity, by the degree of fact support, by the degree of ordinary everyday logic) of your message, the level of mine is approximately the same in these categories. You bring nonsense without supporting it with facts - I carry the same and also do not bother with argumentation. But your nonsense, in your opinion, is the truth, and mine is sarcasm. wassat Double standards. request
          I can put Napoleon’s company on your shelves from the beginning of the century until the 1815 year inclusive, it may not be very detailed (I was especially interested in this era for a relatively long time), but I can draw plans, the general course of the companies and their results from the sheet. The question is whether the horse feed.
          My request is for you - do not use, please, such words as "history", "historian", "historical" in general. They do not suit you. From your lips they are heard as quotes from Yuri Lotman from the mouth of an infant. That is, it is quite obvious that a person does not understand what exactly and what exactly he is talking about.
          1. 0
            6 October 2017 17: 48
            Not Napoleon, but Augustu- need to be laid out on the shelves, I will not continue to continue from 17 62. Then the preparation for the invasion of Muscovy began.
            If you run wild in the vast expanses of Traditional History, you are my sympathy.
  5. 0
    1 October 2017 09: 02
    Quote: andrewkor
    Dear Varyag, take a closer look at my comment about wars and battles. Why did I underestimate A.V. Suvorov?

    So I kind of read it. Kutuzov surpassed the Suvorov school. Or am I misunderstood something? request
  6. +17
    1 October 2017 09: 27
    Tarutin march maneuver - an example of a waste maneuver
    Kutuzov well done
    And the author did well that he wrote
    Suvorov - teacher Kutuzova
    Seniority of the Order of Suvorov - higher than that of the Order of Kutuzov
    Here is the seniority (top of the list) of the USSR awards for 1968:
    1.orden of Lenin;
    2. The Order of the October Revolution;
    3.Orden of the Red Banner;
    4.orden Suvorova I degree;
    5.Orden Ushakova I degree;
    6.orden Kutuzova I degree;
    7.Orden Nakhimova I degree;
    8.Orden Bogdan Khmelnitsky I degree;
    9.orden Suvorov II degree;
    10.Orden Ushakova II degree;
    11.orden Kutuzova II degree;
    12.Orden Nakhimova II degree;
    13.Orden Bogdan Khmelnitsky II degree;
    14.orden of Suvorov III degree;
    15.orden Kutuzova III degree.
  7. +3
    1 October 2017 09: 42
    Dear Cyril, I can add to your article. The rear guard of the Russian army was commanded by M.A. Miloradovich. It was he who was preparing a reserve for the Russian army back in May 1812. 65 fresh Cossack regiments approached Tarutino, so Napoleon did not recognize Kutuzov’s new aria. Miloradovich one day after the Battle of Borodino concluded a truce with Murat. The Russian army was able to break away from the army of Napoleon (the army of all Europe) for 25 miles. My ancestors fought in that war only in the army of Count Pyotr Khristoforovich, who covered the way to Riga and Petersburg. I wrote a story about Miloradovich, after its publication in St. Petersburg in 2015, finally a monument was erected to him. Seven enterprises raised funds and now this monument stands at the Moscow Gate on Moskovsky Prospekt. I have the honor.
    1. Cat
      +1
      1 October 2017 09: 49
      The conclusion of a truce with Marat and the deceitful maneuver of Miloradovich is perfectly described by L.N. Tolstoy.
      1. avt
        0
        1 October 2017 10: 56
        Quote: Kotischa
        The conclusion of a truce with Marat and the deceitful maneuver of Miloradovich is perfectly described by L.N. Tolstoy.

        Tolstoy's PERFECTLY and extremely succinctly was characterized by the distinction between Teacher Suvorov and Student Kutuzov. Remember Tolstoy’s attachment in the novel by Kutuzov to the character performed by Tikhonov in front of Austerlitz - ,, I think tomorrow’s battle will be lost. "And then the next dialogue
        - Mikhailo Larionovich! Why aren’t you going forward?

        “I'm waiting for all the troops of the convoy to gather.”

        - After all, we are not in Tsaritsyno Meadow, where the parade does not begin, until all the shelves come up.

        “Sire, that’s why I don’t start because we are not in Tsaritsyno meadow.” However, if you order!
        request Nothing to add! So the campaign later called the Patriotic War of 1812 Kutuzov BRIEFLY conducted ......... precisely in the framework
        Sire, that’s why I don’t start, because we are not in the Tsaritsyno meadow. However, if you order!
        But he had enough will and skill to bring to Victory, and not disaster. For which, actually, Honor and Glory and gratitude of descendants to him! Yes! Note - ,, liberate "Europa Kutuzov categorically did not want and did not advise Sanya, but ......
        Sire, that’s why I don’t start, because we are not in the Tsaritsyno meadow. However, if you order!
        1. Martian
          +2
          1 October 2017 11: 50
          Quote: avt
          Tolstoy

          Greetings, shark drinks Not so much for the sake of seeking the truth, but how much for the sake of interest and viewing a different point of view on the described events, type on the Yu-tube "War of the Worlds 1812". This material is very interesting, if not stupidly persist in one point of view ... wink hi
          1. avt
            +1
            1 October 2017 16: 31
            Quote: Martian
            but how much for the sake of interest and viewing a different point of view on the events described, type on the Yu-tube "War of the Worlds 1812".

            hi And there is no such
            Quote: Martian
            different point of view on the described events
            request Quite illiterate attempts at an alternative gishtoria of adherents, not even students, but sectarians using the Fomenko and Nosovsky algorithm. Well, only a inveteed co-hacker from gishtoria can call a six-feather-pernach wand. Look better for some memories (I don’t remember myself already) of contemporaries about Kulnev then everything will fall into place in the part from which the German regiment colonnels appeared next to the same Russian militia. Yes, the stupidly 60-THOUSAND corps surrendered and in full force began to fight against the Buonaparty ... like Romanians in the Great Patriotic War. Well, if so - vskidku, but more carefully this opus to disassemble reluctance, time to waste. Just pay attention - there is no binding of pictures to the chronology ... wa-a-apche. And with this Makar, Sinful sinner easily and without straining to dash can ... or maybe that is a wa-a-apche Trojan War, and Kutuzov himself not Field Marshal, but Homer. And it will also be folding bully
            1. Martian
              +2
              1 October 2017 18: 05
              Quote: avt
              And there is no such

              There is something on my part that allows you to ask questions to the official interpretation wink
              Quote: avt
              Quite illiterate attempts at an alternative gishtoria of adherents, not even students, but sectarians using the Fomenko and Nosovsky algorithm

              I'll tell a story. About three years ago, I approximately (approximately) took my Parteigenosses to drink bitter with the inspectors, and I went into the local museum, where a historian writer presented a book about the history of my town. After a bit of fun, for the sake of sports interest, I asked the respected how he relates to an alternative story. Even without mentioning Fomenko and Nosovsky, the author boiled (really!), Called these mathematicians ugly words and pointed out to me that ONLY OFFICIAL HISTORY has the right to life. Morality - soon you have to admit that the Americans took Berlin, because this "fact" is already being imposed officially in the West. But humanly, it is impossible to assert only one point of view, if there are other opinions ....
              Quote: avt
              Sin Az

              How nice to hear the familiar turns of speech again! drinks laughing hi
              PS I have my own point of view, which may differ from the official request
    2. +1
      1 October 2017 11: 45
      Quote: midshipman
      The Russian army was able to break away from Napoleon’s army (the army of all Europe) on 25 miles

      "The Russian army, leaving Moscow, moved towards Ryazan, then, turning sharply to the west, rushed to Podolsk, setting up camp near Red Pakhra. The Cossacks of the Russian rearguard continued on their previous route, dragging the French avant-garde with them. The transition from Ryazan to Kaluga Road was carried out at night quickly and so secretively that the French avant-garde, not suspecting anything, chased the Cossacks for several days. Meanwhile, Kutuzov, having shot from the positions of Red Pakhra, transferred the army to the village of Tarutino and on September 21 camped there. Barclay de Tolly wrote: "This action gave us the opportunity to complete the war by perfect extermination of the enemy." Kutuzov led to the Tarutino 87 thousands of regular infantry and cavalry with the 622 guns and 28 Cossack regiments. All the troops were stationed in a position rather narrow, but strong and strengthened by natural barriers by the rivers Nara, Istya, ravines, heights, and forests. From the front and the flanks was installed 10 batteries. Tarutinsky camp securely protected Kaluga with food stores, Tula with weapons factories and southern agricultural gubernias from the enemy. Thus, after the battle of Borodino, the Russian army left Moscow and blocked the way to the southern provinces. Napoleon’s army occupied Moscow, the Kremlin turned into Napoleon’s headquarters, where he was preparing to accept peace proposals from Alexander. But the parliamentarians did not appear. The war unfolded after the capture of Moscow by the French confused all the generally accepted ideas about the winners and losers, about success and failure. It would seem that everything was clear to the limit: French troops occupy the Russian capital, and no one can get out of it, and even does not try to dislodge it. All of Europe was absolutely sure that the Russian campaign of the Napoleonic army was brilliantly completed. Napoleon himself wrote more than once in his reports to his homeland. But by the end of September, he himself no longer believed in the validity of such conclusions. Napoleon's troops were under siege, because the nearest neighborhood of Moscow was occupied by the Russian partisan cavalry. The very first partisan detachment during the Patriotic War 1812. was created on the initiative of Barclay de Tolly 22 more July 1812 g. under the command of General F. Wintzingerode. They remembered the Scythian history and the statutes of Peter I, where they used ertaul and corvolant. The logic was simple. Napoleon hoped to defeat Russia in twenty days. For so many days he took provisions with him. And if you select carts, fodder and break bridges, it will create great difficulties for him. And at the end of August, shortly before the battle of Borodino, at the suggestion of Lieutenant Colonel Akhtyrsky hussar regiment D.V. Davydov, with the sanction of Kutuzov and Bagration, the later partisan detachment of Davydov was created. The partisan movement grew like a snowball. The invaders received a "Scythian" war. The area adjoining Moscow from the west, northwest, north and northeast was in the zone of action of the Special Separate cavalry "flying" curtain body of the major general and adjutant general, and from 28 of September - lieutenant general Ferdinand Wintzinerode. By the end of September, 36 Cossack and 7 cavalry regiments, 5 separate squadrons and a light horse artillery team, 5 infantry battalion, and 3 regimental guns operated in the veil forces. The guerrillas ambushed, attacked enemy carts, intercepted couriers. They daily reported on the movement of enemy forces, transferred captured mail and information received from prisoners. The corps was divided into partisan detachments, each of which controlled a specific area. The most active were detachments under the command of Davydov, Seslavin, Figner, Dorokhov. The tactical basis of the partisan actions consisted of tried and tested Cossack intelligence, Cossack patrols and Becket (outposts), deft Cossack Venter (fraudulent and double ambushes) and fast rebuilds in the lavas. The guerrilla unit consisted of one or three Cossack regiments, reinforced by the most experienced hussars, and sometimes rangers, or arrows - light infantrymen, trained in loose-field operations. Cossacks became a real nightmare for the French army. In the memoirs of the French, who experienced the bitterness of retreat from Russia, the Cossacks are constantly mentioned. A. Kolenkur writes that "the whole area was infested with Cossacks, who every moment interrupted the connection between our corps, no matter how close they were to each other." Kutuzov also used mobile Cossack detachments for reconnaissance, communications, guarding the supply lines of the Russian troops, attacking the supply lines of the French army, and performing other special tasks in the rear of Napoleon’s army and on the tactical subfield to the north of the Main Russian Army. The French could not leave the borders of Moscow, fires did not subside in the city itself.
      https://topwar.ru/74452-kazaki-v-velikoy-otechest
      vennoy-voyne.html
    3. +3
      1 October 2017 11: 49
      Quote: midshipman
      In Tarutino 65 Cossack fresh regiments approached, so Napoleon did not recognize Kutuzov's new aria.

      "In the absence of Platov, the official ataman on the Don was General Denisov. They declared the general mobilization (flash) of all Cossacks from 16 to 60 years. More 6 July 1812, Alexander I signed the Manifesto on convening the Zemsky militia. July 20 he was taken to the Don The military chancery decided to involve in the militia all Cossacks, including old men and teenagers, excluding “very decrepit, equally crippled and cruelly sick, completely unable to march.” The village authorities were charged with providing public account of all the poor, called upon to defend the Fatherland.The formation of the militia did not stop the Manifesto of July 18, which limited the geography of the “armed patriotism” of 16 to the provinces where Don was not included. MI Platov, aware of the need to increase the forces of the Don Army depleted of losses, 26 July, he ordered the ataman AK Denisov to continue the formation of the militia and, as the teams were recruited, send them to join the army. Commanders in the ready for the campaign shelves appointed especially distinguished officers from the army. Trade Cossacks contributed 93645 rubles to the cashier of the military office and greatly facilitated the ataman's task of providing the poor Cossacks with weapons, horses, equipment and travel allowance. The first regiment of the militia commanded by troop foreman Ivan Popov launched an 2 campaign in September. Upon arrival in the army, he was sent to Vyazma in the partisan detachment D.V. Davydov. 26 new regiments were formed, which in September all approached the Tarutino camp and richly replenished the troops of the veil. Kutuzov called this event a “noble replenishment from the Don”. The arrival of the Cossack regiments caused an extraordinary rise in spirit in the army. The soldiers said: “How can we not stand up for ourselves, how can we not get rid of the enemy, since the Don old men have risen! Shame on us if we’re left behind! God brought them, and God will help us! ” In total, from the Don was put up in the army of 90 regiments. Cossacks and units of the regular light cavalry Moscow was blocked. Moscow was on fire, it was impossible to get supplies to feed the occupying army on the ground, communications with the main quartermaster base in Smolensk were threatened by Cossacks, hussars and partisans from the local population. Every day the Cossacks and partisans captured hundreds, and even thousands of enemy soldiers who had broken away from their units, and sometimes whole units of the French were smashed. Napoleon complained that the Cossacks "plundered" his army. Napoleon’s hope of peace negotiations remained futile. "
      https://topwar.ru/74452-kazaki-v-velikoy-otechest
      vennoy-voyne.html
  8. +4
    1 October 2017 09: 54
    In 1834, in Tarutin, with the funds raised by the peasants, a monument was erected with the inscription: “In this place, the Russian army, led by Field Marshal Kutuzov, gaining strength, saved Russia and Europe”
    There is an interesting detail here -
    Count Rumyantsev, "understanding the sights of the Tarutin possessions he received," freed the local peasants (745 souls) from serfdom, deciding that they were "more decent to be in the charge of the government than in the possession of a private person."
    Since the peasants were given freedom in honor of the events of the war of 1812, “out of gratitude to the mercy shown to them, they expressed to Count Sergey Petrovich an eager desire to erect a monument in Tarutin, special in their dependency, to commemorate the glory of the Russian army and the splendid exploits he led under the leadership of the famous leader Field Marshal Prince Kutuzov-Smolensky. " The peasants raised 44000 rubles for the construction of the monument.

    "In this place, the Russian army, led by Field Marshal Kutuzov, gaining strength, saved Russia and Europe. This monument was erected to support the peasants of the village of Tarutin, who received unlimited freedom from Count SP Rumyantsev." http://www.planetadorog.ru/r/tarutino/
  9. Martian
    +3
    1 October 2017 10: 00
    Personally, I don’t believe in all these stories about Napoleon’s treacherous attack on Russia, my mother and surrender of Moscow to the mercy of an adversary! Too many questions I have, either without answers, or with answers drawn by ears, which should be taken on faith!
    Now the most inquiring minds in libraries and open archives find such nuances of the 1812 War that they no longer believe in officialdom. You do not believe because of your ability to think about facts.
    So I do not believe. hi
    1. 0
      1 October 2017 11: 58
      Quote: Martian
      Personally, I don’t believe in all these tales about Napoleon’s treacherous attack on Russia by Mother and the surrender of Moscow at the mercy of the foe!

      "After the unsuccessful participation of Russia in several coalitions against France, Napoleon again forced Russia to participate in the continental blockade of Britain and peace and alliance in Tilsit was concluded. But the peaceful relations established by the Treaty of Tilsit not only provoked moral protest from the masses, this treaty laid a heavy burden on the country's economy. The continental blockade deprived Russia of the possibility of trade with the vast British Empire, which had a severe effect on the economy and finances of the country and led to a rapid decline in the Russian banknotes. All this was a new cause for discontent Alexander in all classes of the state. This dissatisfaction was skilfully maintained in society by English agents and French émigrés. In addition, the Russian Mediterranean squadron did not have time to go into Russia, and was captured by the British in Lisbon. The benefits derived from the alliance with Napoleon — his consent to Finland’s accession and neutrality in the war with Turkey — could not compensate for the losses imposed on the country. Therefore, the terms of the treaty could not be carried out in good faith by Russia, and this situation sooner or later should have led to a rupture. The reasons for cooling the political order were added and the reasons of a personal nature, such as the refusal to marry the sister of Emperor Alexander to Napoleon. Under the influence of economic and political reasons, popular discontent and opposition to the emperor's entourage, Russia began to violate the conditions of the Treaty of Tilsit, and both sides began to prepare for war. In an effort to use force to force Alexander to comply with the conditions of the continental blockade, Napoleon began to concentrate troops in the Duchy of Warsaw. Russia also concentrated its armed forces on the western borders. In the army, changes were made in the management. Instead Arakcheeva military minister was appointed Barclay de Tolly. By the beginning of the summer 1812 the mobilization and concentration of the Great Army of Napoleon (Grande Armee) in Poland and Prussia ended, and the war became inevitable. Emperor Alexander had excellent intelligence; it suffices to recall that Talleyrand himself denounced him, and from this awareness he strongly panicked. Correspondence of Tsar Alexander with the Moscow mayor F.V. Rostopchin, dated in winter 1811-12 Alexander wrote to Moscow’s head that Napoleon was already almost mobilized, collecting a huge army from all over Europe, and as always, everything is very bad with us. Plans for the mobilization and procurement of arms and property are disrupted, only pima and sheepskin coats are plentiful. To which the shrewd mayor answered the king: “Your Majesty is not so bad. You have two main advantages, namely: the vast expanses of your empire and the extremely harsh climate. As the enemy moves inland, his head will weaken, and his resistance will increase. Your army will be helpless near Vilna, terrible near Moscow, terrible at Kazan and invincible near Tobolsk. In addition, at any price, the campaign should be tightened until winter, while at any price, the enemy should be left without fuel, apartments, provisions, and fodder for the winter. And if, Your Majesty, these conditions are met, then I assure you that no matter how numerous and formidable the invasion army would be, by the spring there will be only mosles left of it. ” And so thought and acted many people were responsible for the strategy. Not excluding the possibility of an enemy breaking through into the country, a program was being carried out to create weapons-duplicate factories in Izhevsk, Zlatoust and other places. The hour "Ch" inexorably approached. Emperor Alexander, having received news of the concentration of enemy forces near the borders of the empire, left Petersburg in early April and arrived in Vilna.
      On June 12, Napoleon’s army crossed the Neman River at Kovno and sent the main thrust to the junction between the 12 and 1 by the Western armies, with the aim of separating them and defeating them individually. After the crossing of the Neman, the forward detachments of the French army were met by the Black Sea patrol of the hundreds of Life Guard Cossack regiments, who were the first to join the battle. Napoleon invaded Russia with 2 infantry and 10 cavalry corps totaling 4 thousands of people, not counting the main headquarters and subordinate consignment units, sappers and guards. Of these soldiers, only about half were French. In the course of the war, until the end of 390, more people were arriving on the territory of Russia, marching, rear, engineer and allied units totaling more than 1812 thousand people. "
      https://topwar.ru/74452-kazaki-v-velikoy-otechest
      vennoy-voyne.html
      1. Martian
        +2
        1 October 2017 12: 09
        As far as it is clear from the link, all materials on the Cossacks were written at the end of the XX-beginning of the XXI century. The question is, personally, can they be true from the point of view of truth? And if we take the Patriotic War of 1812, then why not unearth the true memories of those participants in the events. And then our history for those times is built entirely on Tolstoy’s novel "War and Peace", which was written almost 50 years after the events and is a purely artistic work, and not a reference, but on the "documents" released decades later to the masses, which again cannot be true, for they can be corrected due to the political conjuncture of that time.
        Therefore, personally, I have a question of the talent of Kutuzov or the "heroism" of the masses remains open hi
        And one question - WHY did Napoleon go to Moscow, which was not the capital, but not to St. Petersburg ???? wink
        1. +2
          1 October 2017 15: 14
          Quote: Martian
          And one question - WHY did Napoleon go to Moscow, which was not the capital, but not to St. Petersburg ????

          Did Napoleon have one army? The second one seems to be broken somewhere, the one that went to Peter.
        2. avt
          +1
          1 October 2017 16: 43
          Quote: Martian
          And one question - WHY did Napoleon go to Moscow, which was not the capital, but not to St. Petersburg ????

          Well, if only because, oddly enough, this will sound, Peter, despite the decree of Petit No. 1, remained the residence. And they crowned the kingdom forever in Moscow, right up to Nikolashka No. 2. And they all knew it perfectly. Yes, and Bonya was chasing the army, and Peter had enough forces for himself — 62 with a dashing thousand and 180 artillery barrels — more than enough somewhere in the 30 regular troops. Another thing is how his subordinates took advantage of them.
          1. +2
            1 October 2017 17: 14
            Namely, that was chasing the army. Bonya would generally prefer to get along with one border battle and then impose a favorable peace treaty.
            1. avt
              +1
              1 October 2017 19: 04
              Quote: sivuch
              Namely, that was chasing the army. Bonya would generally prefer to get along with one border battle and then impose a favorable peace treaty.

              Yes . Moreover, right up to Smolensk, Barclay, to give him credit, unlike the hot Bagration, made Bonya and Davout, in particular, dissect in parallel courses, without options, break up the 1st and 2nd parts. Here we could talk about a general battle with reliance on Smolensk. ... BUT Barclay and further Kutuzov continued the implementation of the plan. Moreover, sinful Az is convinced that tie Kutuzov’s general battle in MOSCOW with reliance on its fortifications (the Kremlin, the future Boulevard Ring and the Zemlyanoy shaft buried in Sadovaya, plus the monasteries blocking the river crossing through Moscow) is not a fact that Bonya Bya survived. BUT ... Kutuzov, as already said by Tolstoy
              Quote: avt
              Sire, that’s why I don’t start, because we are not in the Tsaritsyno meadow. However, if you order!

              Actually went the prescribed way
              Quote: avt
              But he had enough will and skill to bring to Victory, and not disaster. For which, actually, Honor and Glory to him and the gratitude of posterity!
              I am convinced that Suvorov and Bogration would conduct a campaign across the tsar’s will immediately after the invasion ..
          2. Martian
            +1
            1 October 2017 17: 41
            To marry a kingdom and be a real capital, dearest - two agro-differences feel
            1. avt
              +1
              1 October 2017 19: 10
              Quote: Martian
              To marry a kingdom and be a real capital, dearest - two agro-differences

              Uh-uh no !!! Features of the religious factor of legitimizing power! Assumption Cathedrals have been consistently erected in Vladimir since the time of Andryusha Bogolyubsky and then in Moscow. With the transfer of shrines from Kiev and the luring of the metropolitans, this is by no means a virtual matter. As well as St. Basil's Cathedral. These were then things that the sovereigns JOKED NEVER. And who joked, like Petrusha No. 3 (not at all stupid however) ended badly.
              1. Martian
                +1
                1 October 2017 19: 20
                At that time, Moscow did not have a grain of capital functions! Yes I even read somewhere that after Peter transferred the capital to his own city, Moscow (especially the Kremlin) became desolate. It simply remained a large trading city. So, not a fact. From the middle of the 19th century - I still believe that the type was restored and religious ceremonies were returned from the filing of the people. But it was the 18th century and before the “campaign” that Bonnie was in decline request
    2. +1
      1 October 2017 12: 04
      Andrei, you’re just like Stanislavsky with his immortal phrase ....
      Now the most inquiring minds in libraries and open archives find such nuances of the 1812 War that they no longer believe in officialdom. You do not believe because of your ability to think about facts.

      But do not share the main points of your thoughts on the "nuances" found by "inquisitive minds". Or please provide links to such information ....
      Thank you, Nikolai Ivanovich ....
      1. Martian
        +2
        1 October 2017 12: 19
        Quote: moskowit
        Andrei, you’re just like Stanislavsky with his immortal phrase ...

        Nikolai Ivanovich, I’m used to consider the problem from all sides and take into account many options for solving it, because if alternative points of view arise in solving the problem, they are not discarded, but analyzed and only after that I decide for myself what the answer to the question is not with the point of view of something fundamental, but from the point of view of ordinary logic and common sense. In this case, on the topic of the war of 1812, Sergey Ignatenko’s material “War of the Worlds of 1812” on the Yu-tube is interesting. Look, only to the end, if interested hi
        PS Nobody makes you believe this, but stupidly believe in officialdom, too, somehow No. Therefore, only everyone decides for himself what to believe in him ...
      2. +2
        1 October 2017 15: 33
        Dear moskowit! The Martian, by the way, poses perfectly logical questions to which he cannot find answers in articles on the VO, and you, as a general, could answer the corporal instead of ironicizing.
        Indeed, the vast majority of VO authors do not bother finding interesting materials for readers. Oleinikov reprints his dissertation on WWI, Samsonov raves about a worldwide conspiracy, the rest copy-paste what is at hand.
        So in today's article, the author does not know how much over the past 200 years he outlined the "ceremonial" version of Kutuzov’s flanking maneuver.
        And why not write an article, for example, about why Kutuzov gave Napoleon a battle near Borodino. After all, the battle of Borodino did not fit into the plan of war with Napoleon.
        Everywhere it was written many times that the plan consisted in exhausting Napoleon without the general battle to which he sought, preserving the combat strength of the Russian army and the subsequent vigorous pursuit of Napoleon's decomposed army, which was preserved by the Russian army.
        And how does Borodino fit into this plan, which led to very serious losses in the previously carefully preserved army? Interesting? Of course.
        Or the question of why Napoleon was attacking precisely Moscow and not Petersburg.
        The famous statement attributed to Napoleon that, stepping on Petersburg, he will hit the head of Russia, and, having hit Moscow, pierces her heart, in fact does not shed light on his true intentions.
        But Napoleon attacked Petersburg. In the north, Napoleon had 2 corps: under the command of Marshal Udino (target - St. Petersburg) and under the command of Marshal MacDonald (target - Riga).
        According to the French plan, Oudinot, having occupied Polotsk, was to go around the Wittgenstein corps covering the capital from the north and connect with the forces of MacDonald. Then Wittgenstein’s corps would face many times superior enemy forces, and the path to St. Petersburg would be open for the Napoleonic army.
        The capital was preparing for the evacuation. And on the way of the French stood the one whom then Alexander I was the "savior" of St. Petersburg - Wittgenstein Pyotr Khristianovich. Everyone knows that Wittgenstein showed indecision and was not able to fully fulfill the set fieldwork. M.I. Kutuzov task - to advance to the river. Berezina and together with the army adm. P.V. Chichagov to block the path of the retreating Napoleonic troops.
        But almost nowhere is there material that the Wittgenstein corps, as a result of stubborn battles near Yakubov, Klyastitsy, Golovchitsy, Kokhanov and Polotsk, did not let the French to the capital.
        It was in the three-day battle near Klyastitsy on the territory of present Belarus that the Russian troops defeated the superior forces of Marshal Oudinot and stopped the French advance to St. Petersburg.
        Upon learning of the victory at Klyastitsy, the capital of the Russian Empire rejoiced. Emperor Alexander I, as I said, called P.Kh. Wittgenstein savior of St. Petersburg. the people awarded him with the similar honorary title of "defender of Petrov grad". Russian poet Ivanchin - Pisarev honored Wittgenstein with a verse.
        This leader of the Russian forces, the French are so dangerous
        The invincible three krats defeated,
        And having scattered the shelves with the number of enemies are terrible,
        Like a marvelous shield, Petropol guarded it.
        The semi-legendary story of how the already mortally wounded commander of the Grodno hussars Kulnev with difficulty pulled the ribbon with the George Cross from his neck and handed it to the adjutant with the words: “Take it! Let the enemy, when he finds my corpse, take him for a simple corpse,” soldier and not be vain in killing a Russian general. "
        A lot of the site we saw materials about this?
        So they ask "inquiring minds" questions. And we answered them with irony.
        1. Martian
          +2
          1 October 2017 18: 10
          Quote: Curious
          The Martian, by the way, poses perfectly logical questions to which he cannot find answers in articles on the VO, and you, as a general, could answer the corporal instead of ironicizing.

          This is my second coming to the site on which I was before Nikolai Ivanovich and in the last "life" was already in his rank, and therefore I simply do not worry wink Although thanks for the support hi Ranks for me personally are not an indicator
          1. +1
            1 October 2017 18: 21
            About titles is humor.
            1. Martian
              +2
              1 October 2017 18: 25
              I'm not worried anyway wink
  10. +3
    1 October 2017 10: 24
    The article is so-so, they say it was such a maneuver and it’s cool, but the discussion is burning napalm, there’s no reason to discuss this maneuver, what other options were to be considered, no one argues who is cooler than Suvorov or Kutuzov and the Fomenkivists are blowing snowstorms.
  11. 0
    1 October 2017 11: 16
    Quote: Victor_B

    2
    Victor_B Today, 08:18 ↑ New
    So you are also greedy?
    I’m only asking for an address. Dealer
    Your grass is really good.
    Judging by the flight of thought.
    It does not spread on the tree. Flies a free bird!

    Where does the moderator look? Are drug addictions and fabrications appropriate on the pages of the Military Review? What will readers say after reading about grass?
    1. +3
      1 October 2017 21: 05
      Quote: p-k Oparyshev
      What will readers say after reading about grass?

      That you got smoked.
  12. 0
    1 October 2017 12: 15
    Kutuzov’s Tarutin maneuver was trivial in the situation of 1812 of the year:
    - Napoleon’s compact army (the corps according to the present) broke away more than 1000 km from its European base located in the western direction;
    - to the next significant settlement (St. Petersburg) to the north was almost the same distance plus a fresh enemy army;
    - there were no other significant Russian settlements eastward until the Pacific Ocean;
    - the only significant settlements and agricultural areas were in the south, so Kutuzov covered them.

    Plus, Kutuzov got the opportunity to hit the rear of the French army, if she came to the side of St. Petersburg.

    In this situation, most likely, Kutuzov did not show wisdom, but Napoleon took a big step - he remained under siege in Moscow instead of breaking through the whole army to the south.

    Well, the cherry on the cake - the author of the strategic plan of the entire 1812 company of the year to lure the enemy deep into Russia, cut off from supply bases and the subsequent total liquidation was Barclay de Tolly, who never received a well-deserved mark in the form of a military order of his own name.
    1. +3
      1 October 2017 13: 13
      I think Yaroslavl and Nizhny Novgorod, fairly significant settlements, Barclay, if I was not betrayed, wanted to retreat to Vladimir, obviously wanting to further stretch the enemy’s communications, Ermolov suggested moving to Kaluga without going through Moscow, Napoleon’s attack on St. Petersburg is fantastic, Napoleon was looking for army of opponents, not points on the map.
    2. 0
      1 October 2017 14: 33
      Guys! If you are not too lazy and look at the paintings of the artists of those times, you will see that Moscow was a large village with houses scattered here and there. The Kremlin was built after 1813. The Moscow river in flood times was knee-deep and poorly suited for shipping. goods on barges 70 meters long and 30 meters wide. Moscow itself was not of special value. The objectives of the war were different.
    3. +1
      1 October 2017 23: 54
      Pushkin’s poems were enough. And the order of Barclay was impossible by definition.
  13. 0
    1 October 2017 17: 58
    Call me a commander who was lucky enough to defeat the spirit of the greatest kings and win 2 wars against gigantic empires. Alexander? No, because he overwhelmed only the Persians. Kutuzov? Yes. He defeated the emperor of the united empire of Europe, and somewhat earlier than the sultan of the united empire of Asia and Africa. The gods of war favored Suvorov, but nothing of the epic was given to him.
    1. +1
      1 October 2017 21: 09
      One Swiss trip Suvorov, was worth all that made Kutuzov .. do not confuse horseradish (plant) with a tram handle ..
      1. 0
        2 October 2017 12: 11
        Campaign is not a war. Many passed through the Alps. People over Elbrus and Everest conquered. So do not confuse your finger with a known hole.
  14. 0
    1 October 2017 20: 09
    Having re-read about a hundred E. Tarle about the Invasion, I came to the conclusion that Kutuzov is one of those who in a hurry to drink, have a meal, wake up. That’s why Berezino simply waved Bonya away, like he was brushing off the annoying fly, and arranged for that "golden bridge".
    1. 0
      2 October 2017 12: 29
      Only Napoleon had to fight on the Berezina River because he was saving his career. Kutuzov did not appear at this massacre. The Chinese sage said, Shta is the greatest military leader who wins a war without battles.
  15. 0
    1 October 2017 21: 57
    Quote: Gransasso
    Quote: Proxima
    Quote: Varyag77
    . By the way, in the memoirs of one of Napoleon’s marshals (forgot his name) it was written that Napoleon was afraid of Suvorov and did not want to start a war with Russia. And only after the death of the Generalissimo began to consider such a possibility.

    But Suvorov, on the contrary, "wanted to teach a boy a lesson." But it did not work out. In general, the course of events showed that Moreau was to become a dictator in France, but it didn’t add up - he ran into Suvorov.




    In order to teach Suvorov a lesson and defeat him, Massena, the second-rate player, was enough ... it’s not to play war games

    MacDonald, Moreau, Joubert and others like them chuckle quietly at you, fumbling the pipe of the world with the great commander and taking lessons from him on tactics and strategy
    1. +1
      1 October 2017 22: 56
      "... MacDonald, Moreau, Joubert and others like them chuckle quietly at you, fumbling the pipe of the world with the great commander and taking lessons from him on tactics and strategy .."


      Well, let’s put the strategist Suvorov was no ... tactic yes ... good .. above the average level .. but nothing more ..

      And these three French comrades ... what kind of deeds did they accomplish that victory over them, and having always an overwhelming advantage in the number of Russian-Austrian troops, do Suvorov "have no analogues"? ... mediocre generals who lacked special stars from the sky and in a cohort of Napoleonic marshals far from the first roles were


      And as he ran into a general above the average level, Massenu received an unforgettable lesson in tactics and strategies
      1. +2
        1 October 2017 23: 03
        Quote: Gransasso
        And as he ran into a general above the average level, Massenu received an unforgettable lesson in tactics and strategies

        Massena just learned a lesson and tactics and strategies. And he almost got captured.
        1. +1
          1 October 2017 23: 44
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Gransasso
          And as he ran into a general above the average level, Massenu received an unforgettable lesson in tactics and strategies

          Massena just learned a lesson and tactics and strategies. And he almost got captured.



          Here's how ... and you can find out who the source of this folklore episode with Massena’s golden epaulettes that supposedly almost got captured?



          And about the lessons of tactics and strategy, who taught whom to whom ...


          Tell the surname of the commander who:


          - made a completely crazy plan for this Swiss campaign ... so crazy and unrealizable that even with modern means of communication and coordination it’s unlikely to be fulfilled ...

          -This plan completely did not take into account the enemy, his actions, as if he hadn’t existed at all ... and even if there hadn’t been an enemy, this plan was not feasible .. what all the allies of the Austrians and Russian Rimsky-Korsakov write about


          -the compiler of the plan was the first to thwart its implementation, when instead of immediately moving to Switzerland to join Korsakov back in August, he stomped fruitlessly for several more weeks waiting for the surrender to Torton’s fortress in Italy that was no longer needed ..


          - He drove into the mountains an army that has absolutely no experience or equipment for this kind of military operations. And he himself had no experience of war in the mountains.


          -did not take care of any minimal reconnaissance of the route ... drove the army without knowing the ford.


          -Lost in three weeks half the army, artillery, carts, threw the treasury along the path of the wounded.


          - came out of the mountains with goat paths, fleeing from the French, with an almost unarmed crowd of frostbite and sick people completely unsuitable for further hostilities


          -From his brilliant plan, the French defeated, in turn, the Austrians, the corps of Korsakov and himself. What made all the sacrifices and victories in Italy meaningless.
          1. +2
            1 October 2017 23: 50
            Quote: Gransasso
            Here’s how ... and you can find out who the source of this folklore episode with Massena’s golden epaulettes that supposedly almost got captured

            And right on this site and look for the "Swiss campaign of Suvorov and his miraculous heroes."
            Quote: Gransasso
            because of his brilliant plan, the French defeated, in turn, the Austrians, the corps of Korsakov and himself. What made all the sacrifices and victories in Italy meaningless.

            It was NOT his plan.
            1. +1
              2 October 2017 00: 10
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Gransasso
              Here’s how ... and you can find out who the source of this folklore episode with Massena’s golden epaulettes that supposedly almost got captured

              And right on this site and look for the "Swiss campaign of Suvorov and his miraculous heroes."
              Quote: Gransasso
              because of his brilliant plan, the French defeated, in turn, the Austrians, the corps of Korsakov and himself. What made all the sacrifices and victories in Italy meaningless.

              It was NOT his plan.



              As for ripped epaulettes, I do not do Internet tales, myths and fake quotes ...



              About the fact that it was NOT his plan ...


              Defeat, as you know, is always an orphan .... victory is always his ideas ... he even forgot to mention allies ... and defeat is everything except him ... as solid as a genius .. he is just a thoughtless performer of other people's plans no genius ...



              But this plan was his. What the Austrians and Korsakov say ... and the king too ... who didn’t even want to accept it after the defeat and didn’t even go to the funeral ...
              1. +2
                2 October 2017 00: 37
                Quote: Gransasso
                But this plan was his. What the Austrians and Korsakov say ... and the king too ... who didn’t even want to accept it after the defeat and didn’t even go to the funeral ...

                I gave you the link.
                Quote: Gransasso
                I don’t deal with Internet tales, myths and fake quotes ...

                Then read the correspondence of Suvorov.
                Quote: Gransasso
                But this plan was his. What the Austrians and Korsakov say ... and the king too.

                Now it's your turn. Please, link where they write that a trip to Switzerland is Suvorov’s idea.
                1. +1
                  2 October 2017 01: 18
                  Édouard Gachot, Les campagnes de 1799: Souvarow en Italie


                  I repeat. Suvorov was not a strategist. He did not make a strategic decision on the transfer of hostilities from Italy to Switzerland .. this was decided by the king and the emperor of Austria.


                  But the operational plan, the choice of the transition route, where to go, Korsakov, the Austrians, timing, etc., was all decided by Suvorov.
                  1. +2
                    2 October 2017 10: 02
                    So is Suvorov, then, ordered Archduke Karl to leave Switzerland for Swabia? And I thought that gofkrigsvurstshnapsrat. Thanks to Carl himself for leaving Gotze’s corps
                    And Suvorov, it turns out, on his own initiative was waiting for the surrender of Tortona?
                    And Moreau tried to release her in view of her complete uselessness? By the way, Suvorov himself could not stand bothering with the fortresses.
                    The fact that in Taverno had to wait 5 days to wait for the mules (and get less than half) is Suvorov also to blame?
                    1. +1
                      2 October 2017 10: 36
                      Quote: sivuch
                      So is Suvorov, then, ordered Archduke Karl to leave Switzerland for Swabia? And I thought that gofkrigsvurstshnapsrat. Thanks to Carl himself for leaving Gotze’s corps
                      And Suvorov, it turns out, on his own initiative was waiting for the surrender of Tortona?
                      And Moreau tried to release her in view of her complete uselessness? By the way, Suvorov himself could not stand bothering with the fortresses.
                      The fact that in Taverno had to wait 5 days to wait for the mules (and get less than half) is Suvorov also to blame?



                      And what reasons did the archduke NOT leave Switzerland? ... he, not possessing any genius, calmly defeated Massena in the first Zurich battle himself, with the 50th Austrian army, without Suvorov and without Korsakov, without Russian troops at all. Korsakov came up with 28.000 the Archduke’s troops had withdrawn the same number of Austrians at the end of August ... how many troops had the Austrians to keep in Switzerland against already defeated Massena. With its 50-55.000 troops? .... Korsakov has 28.000. and Getze has 22.000. On the way Suvorov ss 30.000. Who knew that Brilliant so screwed up ...

                      Torton was needed by the French though for the sake of their garrison ... and why did Suvorov need it? If it was necessary to leave Italy anyway .... those three weeks that he was marking time instead of moving to Switzerland right away and turned out to be fatal for the whole campaign. Incidentally, the Archduke would be found ... he was waiting for him until August 30.


                      Counting mules .... and it’s not the responsibility of the Geniuses to prepare logistics, etc.? .. would do this and not chants a la We are Russian gods, maybe there wouldn’t be any embarrassment ... or brilliant instructions to Korsakov when he sent to him a courier to agree on plans, the answer of Brilliant: one plan. Beat the French ... and that's it
                      1. +2
                        2 October 2017 12: 58
                        Hmm, so many factual mistakes to push.
                        1.Er Karl left by direct order of the gofskrigsrat and left the Gotze corps contrary to this order, so that he understood what his departure was fraught with. Another thing is that this Gotze corps was broken at the same time as Rimsky-Korsakov and therefore did not bring any benefit.
                        In the first battle of Zurich, there was no close defeat of Massen's army. You are sorry, but I believe Clausewitz’s opinion more than yours. I won’t say for genius, but of all the Austrian commanders, Karl was the most talented.
                        Fortresses exist not only for the sake of their garrisons. They are also strategically important points (Tortona, for example, was located at the crossroads of 4 roads), arsenals and warehouses. And, as far as I remember, it was the Austrian emperor who demanded the capture of all the fortresses.
                        Massen by the autumn with reinforcements arrived had about .80 hp, twice as much as during the first Zurich, where, by the way, he repulsed all Karl’s attacks without heavy losses, and these troops were under a single command.
                        The mules were promised to be delivered by the Austrians, i.e. In your opinion, Suvorov should have known in advance that he would be deceived and look for them himself? After 5 days, about 600 unfortunate animals arrived instead of 1400.
                        And what else could Suvorov prescribe to Korsakov, not knowing the specific situation, but having learned from sad experience that you can’t rely on any assurances of the Austrians? By the way, that there is no road between Altdorf and Schwyz, from a word in general, the Austrians also forgot to inform
    2. +1
      1 October 2017 23: 58
      Suppose that Marbot did not evaluate MacDonald too highly (and he personally knew many marshals). Joubert, apparently, was tempered, and Moro had to disentangle again.
      1. +2
        2 October 2017 00: 13
        Quote: sivuch
        Joubert, apparently, let down the ardor.

        Stray bullet.
        1. +1
          2 October 2017 10: 02
          In this case, it is one and the same.
  16. +1
    2 October 2017 17: 31
    sivuch,



    Listen ... we have already moved from facts to their assessment ... and we look at them differently ... you rely on some sources ... I on others ... I read the studies of Italians and French and the same Austrians on these events. ..even Korsakov’s inflammation and his report to the Tsar in the USSR / Russia are not being circulated because they cast a shadow on a bright image .... there are no serious objective studies on Suvorov in Russia at all .. a deep picture of myths, winged expressions and the absence of any critical analysis
    1. +1
      2 October 2017 17: 51
      For you, sitting near Tortona is a justified undertaking .. for me, this is the first and perhaps the most important of the long chain of Suvorov’s mistakes in this campaign that led to the disaster.


      For you, the story with the mules is exclusively a miscalculation of the Austrians. For me and Suvorov too. A good general cannot leave everything at the last moment and then blink his eyes in surprise that nothing is ready. He must plan and check, including the preparation of these things. do not rely on habit for Avos and improvisation.



      As for the maps, Suvorov chose the most difficult and little explored of the possible routes. And he himself had to take care of such trifles as reconnaissance and investigation of the route. Nobody should have done it for him. And the Austrians divided the maps that they had. It was not their territory and they did not know her much better than Suvorov. All the same, it is about the 18th century .... and not about satellite imagery.


      And then come the shoals of Suvorov himself, which you can’t even partially partially push back ... like: absolute ignorance of the terrain, absolute ignorance of the weather conditions in the mountains at this time of year, the absolute unpreparedness of troops for military operations in such conditions, the absolute absence of clothing, shoes and camping equipment and another thousand different such important “trifles” ... in all-solid Avos.


      This is sloppiness .. and no genius
      1. +1
        2 October 2017 18: 39
        Yeah, and he also had to take care of the immediate delivery of the death star and its development by personnel. He was ordered to go to Switzerland, and already this year - so of course, at first he relied on the allies - those after all had the experience of a mountain war and, at the very least, they had a common border with Switzerland. How will he take care of the route survey - will he conduct aerial photography from the drone? And what the Austrians very often could not organize the supply of even their own army, he probably heard, but what could he do? It was then that Pavel could say -You are bad (and, indeed, bad), we will not work with you. Suvorov did not have such a right.
        About Tortona - it’s called for me to be so smart before my mother-in-law after. Of course, Suvorov wanted to finish all things in Italy. By the way, Clausewitz, since I mainly rely on him, did not find enough convincing and objective reasons for procrastination. But, even if he does not draw long conclusions and does not blame him. And the delay itself was not fatal. The stop in Taverno and the lack of roads to Schwyz also affected, and Korsakov might not have popped his ears, after all, the defeats are different, and he had a rout during the day.
        1. +1
          2 October 2017 19: 19
          You have strange ideas about what the army commander should do ... to prepare the troops for military operations, training, providing them with the necessary things are elementary things .. and not a death star .. even for the most ordinary commander .. and even more so for a genius ... bullet fool bayonet well done, a lot of mind is not necessary ...


          Exploration of the terrain is not necessarily done by satellites .. it was done thousands of years before Suvorov and hundreds of years after it .. it was enough to send a hundred others ahead of the army in advance ... and they would have found the ambushes of the French and the jambs on the maps ... maybe they prompted I wish that the crazy calculations of daytime movement on which his brilliant plan was based were, to put it mildly, unreal in the mountains ... and the genius ran blindly against the whole army and every time rested like a new gate ...


          You get a strange picture with Suvorov ... what if he comes out with all of such limited competence, a weak-willed puppet in the hands of the tsar, Austrians, French and even mules ... everyone else should do everything for him and he’s going with the flow .. and all around are to blame except him ...


          Obviously, it doesn’t pull on "having no analogs" with such a characteristic ..
          1. +1
            2 October 2017 21: 05
            Excuse me, but did you hear for the first time that talented, and sometimes brilliant, military leaders are defeated through the fault of others? Yes, Suvorov’s possibilities were extremely limited. It’s always difficult to fight in a coalition (the Marlboro-Eugene tandem is a rare exception), and in this case, especially. In terms of logistics, the Russians were completely dependent on allies, the same thing was with the maps. There was neither time, nor purely physical ability to prepare normally. Would Suvorov in the mountains send Cossack patrols to check? Friedrich was in the same situation in the wars with the Austrians, and Napoleon’s marshals in Spain and Bonya in Russia were different reasons, but the result is the same — it is impossible to conduct reconnaissance.
            And yes - Suvorov carried out the orders of the tsar (albeit without the slightest desire) and was forced to trust the Austrians (no one else). Do you think that he should defiantly refuse? And others had to do exactly what they promised - that was enough. Well, and that Suvorov was a limp puppet in the hands of the French - that’s not a joke
    2. +1
      2 October 2017 18: 53
      Serious research is where Suvorov is criticized?
      I would rather believe in the objectivity of Moreau or the same Clausewitz.
      Yes, I also found an article about the Swiss campaign - not that I agreed with the author, but at least he was trying to figure it out, and not just justify it.
      http://www.online812.ru/2013/03/21/011/
      How Field Marshal Suvorov was unable to defeat the revolutionary French
      1. +1
        2 October 2017 19: 33
        Quote: sivuch
        Serious research is where Suvorov is criticized?
        I would rather believe in the objectivity of Moreau or the same Clausewitz.
        Yes, I also found an article about the Swiss campaign - not that I agreed with the author, but at least he was trying to figure it out, and not just justify it.
        http://www.online812.ru/2013/03/21/011/
        How Field Marshal Suvorov was unable to defeat the revolutionary French




        No .. serious studies are those where they are objectively disassembled and its pluses and minuses ... of which there were many, too ..



        But in this sweeping Swiss campaign, he didn’t stupid abruptly and unexpectedly made all this bunch of mistakes .... at the age of 70 people don’t get stupid or get smarter sharply ...



        He led this campaign as he conducted all his campaigns before that ... by fast tiring marches .. not particularly caring for the rear, convoys, with open flanks, etc., etc. .. with hope for personal courage and patience of soldiers more than canons, order and maintenance ...


        Very often, this brought him victory .. due to surprise and speed .. with the Turks basically .. but in this case when neither surprise nor speed came out and the enemy was more serious, all the risks of such a method of waging war on Avos surfaced ...


        He acted according to the pattern as always .. according to his pattern ... it was just that the circumstances were not "stereotyped" .. but he could not understand this and got caught ..

  17. 0
    2 October 2017 19: 25
    One of the favorite commanders, master of maneuver, strategist Mikhail Illarionovich hi
    1. 0
      6 October 2017 17: 51
      Ha ha! Only your strategist worked for England for having several "enemy" awards. And Platov in 1814 was called to England. Where he received a sword with bruliks and a peer type title. Admire further.
  18. 0
    18 October 2017 09: 15
    In my opinion, Mikhail Illarionovich was primarily an outstanding geopolitician. He considered the Anglo-Saxons a deadly enemy of Russia. In Napoleon, he saw not only the enemy, but also a potential ally in the future (hence his confrontation with Wilson, the representative of England at Headquarters). Before the French invasion, he achieved the neutralization of Turkey, correctly dealt with Napoleon and, if his will, would have released him to Europe, to the delight of the Albion, lovers of the fog. Kutuzov, unlike Alexander 1, tied with the blood of his father with his English friends, sincerely wanted Russia to make the most of the fruits of its grand victory. After all, Europe could now be tailored at its discretion. With the beaten Napoleon as an ally, using it as a counterweight to England, it’s just breathtaking what could be achieved. The whole world history would be different ... But not for this the Anglo-Saxons soaked Paul 1. As a result, Kutuzov died (somehow monstrously in time, like Peter 1, Alexander 3, Nikolay 2, Ulyanov-Lenin, I.V. Stalin), and today we have what we have. An interesting story, less than a hundred years before that, happened to Charles 12. Little is known about this, but Peter 1 was negotiating with him, wanted to squeeze the British out of northern Europe in alliance with Sweden, offered Norway as compensation for the lost Baltic states. The Russian corps was ready for joint action with the Swedes. But in 1718. Karl 12 dies (or was killed, somehow on time again) and today we have what we have ...