Military Review

Kalashnikov accusations of plagiarism became part of the ideological war

85
On Gunsmith Day in Moscow, a monument was opened to Mikhail Kalashnikov - the creator of the most common rifle weapons in the world. They tried to spoil the holiday with statements that in fact AK-47 was not created by Kalashnikov and the pride of Russian gunsmiths is nothing more than plagiarism. But does this version have a right to exist?


According to the author of the monument - the national artist of Russia Salavat Shcherbakov, the automatic machine was not originally envisaged in the concept of the monument, but then it was decided that the designer would hold his creation - AK-47. To immediately be clear to whom the monument. “This is a feat not a one-time, but a feat of a lifelong, and this is a feat of intelligence. This is a colossal tension of thought to reach such an ideal product, ”Shcherbakova quoted TASS.

Kalashnikov accusations of plagiarism became part of the ideological war


As if in mockery of this, the Web has intensified discussions that the original AK-47 version was not invented by Kalashnikov, but was converted from German designs, in particular, by the famous design bureau of the Third Reich Hugo Schmeisser.
However, such disputes have been going on since the days of the perestroika press, and now they have just turned up a convenient excuse. And you need to understand that almost all versions of the lack of independence of the work of Kalashnikov come from Anglo-Saxon specialists and are based on the external similarity of AK-47 with two other samples from approximately the same time - German SIG-44 of the famous designer Hugo Schmeisser and Czech ZH-29 Vaclav Holek. Allegedly, the captured German designers from the Schmeisser Bureau, who worked at the plant in Izhevsk at the end of the 40, played almost the key role.

At the same time, it turns out that AK-47 was developed at another plant - in Kovrov. Hugo Schmeisser and Mikhail Kalashnikov were located 1000 kilometers from each other and never met - the German designer returned to Germany in 1952 and died the following year.

Clement Efremovich against

The main propagandists of the version about the German origin of AK-47 were two Gordon - Texas gunsmith Gordon Rottman and the Scottish historian, an expert on the Third Reich Gordon Williamson. Walter Harold Black Smith, a prominent figure of the American Rifle Association, is advocating for “Czech origin”.

Subsequently, these versions are overgrown with fun details. In particular, long borrowing chains for some nodes were “established”. For example, the following: the Soviet designer Simonov invented the 1920s invented the trigger mechanism, Vaclav Holek copied it from him, after the occupation of Czechoslovakia, Schmeisser stole the idea, and Kalashnikov already stole it from Schmeisser. At some point, the Tula designer Bulkin, who invented the machine TBC-415, who also looks like Kalash, was added to this chain, but you can walk to the first tweeters as well.

The main problem is that engineering and design ideas in the production of small arms exhausted themselves just in time for the beginning of the Second World War. Within the framework of a common impasse, the same ideas literally were in the air. They were sometimes developed in parallel in several countries and even within the same country, simply in different design offices. Sometimes direct borrowing took place, but it was always limited by local peculiarities of industry.

In the USSR, for example, weapons were never created simply “for the love of art”. There were technical assignments tailored to a specific application, and without their approval it was impossible to use the efforts of the whole bureau. At the same time, the terms were often not put at all or defined in general terms, since testing of new samples required collecting several numerous commissions, each of which revealed deficiencies and required improvement, and it was often unrealistic to collect all these very respected people in one place. .

The Soviet Union lagged behind Western countries in the development and production of submachine guns (machine guns) and for other subjective reasons. The People's Commissariat of Defense, with Marshal Voroshilov at the head, simply did not believe in this weapon and considered it meaningless, and because of that it slowed down promising developments in this area. The "cavalry faction" won the final victory after the "Tukhachevsky group" was shot, because it was Tukhachevsky who promoted the rearmament program.

Slightly rectified the situation of the Winter War. Some Soviet units from among those who are now called special forces (at that time there was no such thing as independent units with specific tasks and weapons), switched to captured Finnish Suomi automata, strikingly resembling in parallel and in a number of devices parallel samples from bureau all the same Schmeisser. Suomi was at that time so effective and unpretentious that some of his remarks are still used in armed conflicts in the Middle East and Africa. And the Swedish equivalent of the same time, “Karl Gustav M / 45” under the brand name “Port Said”, was last lit this year during an attack by Palestinian militants of the Temple Mount. With the light hand of the South European arms dealers in Palestine, he received the nickname "Carlo".

Killer puzzle

Lovers of small arms and his stories - this is a whole subculture. People spend all their free time on the analysis of certain units and details of the firing mechanisms and are very jealous of everything connected with it. In 90, this closed world quite sincerely became interested in “investigating” the origin of, say, the shock mechanism and the AK-47 stem bindings, skipping past consciousness that Kalashnikov’s discredit was, among other things, a spiral of information warfare. And the Russian state at that time almost lost even the Kovrovsky mechanical plant, and it was not up to the defense of a recognizable brand.

In those years, whole detective investigations were written, during which movements in the space of Kalashnikov, Schmeisser and other interested parties were studied. But over time, the discussion turned into the category of “yellow” and everyone began to fade. We even agreed that the “real” Kalashnikov burned down in tank near Bryansk, and the world was presented with a “frontman” who only plays the role of a designer.

The most innocuous of the “yellow” versions was the authorship of the above-mentioned designer Sergey Simonov, who was promoted by Tukhachevsky, but after the death of the latter against the background of Voroshilov’s dislike of the machine guns, he simply transferred the authorship to Kalashnikov, remaining something of a nameless contractor.

An attempt to "close the topic" and "reconcile all" was the theory of "selection of options", voiced by the famous intellectual Anatoly Wasserman. He reasonably suggested that each new weapon model is not created in a vacuum and not from scratch - in the process of designing and further engineering processing many existing samples are taken into account, with many details subsequently being finalized for a specific technical task. That is, modern design of small arms is something like a puzzle, collecting which designer or bureau strives to achieve the best location and use of mechanisms taking into account many factors, including, for example, production capabilities.

In addition, the creation of mass serial weapons is the collective work of large groups of people, some of whom may never intersect live, such as the creators of high-strength alloys for the barrel and workers in the chemical industry who conjure powder. In the process of creating a machine gun or a pistol, they simply don’t need each other, but individually, their work is critically important.

By the way, patent law in this area works poorly. Kalashnikov did not have a patent for the whole machine as an invention, which surprised those who were simply worried about Mikhail Timofeevich as a person who lived in retirement. He owned Soviet patents for some of the mechanisms and parts of AK-47, which are far from being recognized by everyone on the planet. At this point - the lack of a patent for the entire product - and seized the Wasserman. But if you think about it, just a retrospective view from the modern world - in the USSR, the patent on AK-47 could not be given, because they could (for reasons of secrecy or without any clear considerations). Nobody asks why the Queen did not have a patent for the Voskhod rocket, and Gagarin did not brand the phrase “Let's go!”.

Ultimately, all these discussions were and are being conducted in two little intersecting universes. In the first, people in-depth in the subject “piece of iron” are measured with cogs, trying to prove that mankind has already produced one mechanism or another before Kalashnikov or vice versa - that it was the Soviet designer who is a full-fledged author. At the same time, voluminous tables of arguments for and against are published, from which an uninterested person will not extract anything important for himself, besides dozens of special terms.

In another, for many decades, there was the usual propaganda discrediting of the entire Soviet. Kalashnikov was a “fake”, all were invented by German engineers forcibly transported to the USSR, and the Soviet generals were completely imbeciles and communist fanatics who, under Stalin’s orders, were driving over Mozha talented designers and intelligent people. In the 90s, this was a common place, and many readers of the perestroika press still have porridge in their heads for such “sensations” and “discoveries”.

In the same series were hundreds of publications on intelligence work, according to which almost all the military-technical achievements of the Soviet era were stolen in the West. However, not without that, intelligence worked, the SCST issued technical specifications, and the Americans, in turn, chased after promising Soviet developments. However, to turn this part of the truth into a fetish to discredit the entire Soviet period of life is ugly.

It is difficult to say how much in that campaign was (and is) from competing firms and the American Rifle Association. In the end, dozens of countries without any patents and permits rivet their AK-47 replicas, differing only in design and materials.

So, the Romanian izvod, popular in local conflicts, has an extra short handle attached to the forearm, from which many have concluded that the Romanians have three hands. The Hungarians, who have a wood problem, replaced with plastic in the AK-47 design everything they could. And the Chinese still rivet their “Kalash” from what they consider to be steel - you can throw the barrel through 800 shots, but in some countries of black Africa this happens enough.

Over time, conversations about the origin of Mikhail Kalashnikov’s design and copyright ideas, of course, will subside - and will be revived again only for some reason. But you need to be clearly aware that the technical details are one story, and the ideological informational pressure is completely different. Just sometimes they are combined.
Author:
Originator:
https://vz.ru/society/2017/9/19/887608.html
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  1. captain
    captain 21 September 2017 15: 18
    +6
    Kalashnikov is a great designer. His AKMS assault rifle personally experienced in Afghanistan, an excellent weapon of the time. I also tried English submachine guns and American automatic rifles (M-4 and M-16). Kalashnikov surpassed them in reliability and simplicity, though the accuracy was worse, but for the assault rifle of that time it was not the main thing.
    Dear author, your words: “Kalashnikov did not have a patent for the whole machine as an invention, which surprised those who simply worried about Mikhail Timofeevich as a retired person. He owned Soviet patents for some mechanisms and parts of AK-47, which Wasserman seized upon this moment - the lack of a patent for the entire product - but this, if you think about it, is just a retrospective look from the modern world - they could not give a patent for AK-47 to the USSR, because they could (according for security reasons or without any clear considerations) "It is not surprising that Kalashnikov did not receive a patent, well, how could bureaucrats assume that some sergeant could invent something !!! Then the graduates of Baumanka could not come up with anything, but the sergeant came up with; a mess. It’s like with Sholokhov’s “Quiet Don”, a whole commission was organized in Sweden, which proved that Sholokhov wrote, and our party officials, literary “geniuses” did not want to take it on faith. Well, the Cossack couldn’t write such a thing, well, he couldn’t, because he is KAZAK, an enemy of the people by definition. So with Kalashnikov, there are a lot of envious people.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 21 September 2017 15: 26
      +5
      About the patent in general, humor .. who will give the secret designer a patent? And more humor - that in 1947 everyone already knew that AK was a legend and a masterpiece? Although the commission considered that the AK-47 was far from a masterpiece and needed to be improved, for which in Izhevsk created a design bureau (after Ustinov chose it for the production of AK) and only then, for implementation and improvement, they sent MT Kalashnikov there. It looks like Stalin took the time machine with him to the grave ...
      1. Dimy4
        Dimy4 21 September 2017 16: 00
        +4
        It looks like Stalin took the time machine with him to the grave

        About a time machine right to the point. The Germans in the future stole a sample of a Kalashnikov assault rifle to make it look like a SIG-44, from which Kalashnikov copied AK so that the Germans who got into the future copied ...... Such nonsense. But seriously, AK was and remains OUR creation, the fighting qualities of which the whole world appreciated.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 21 September 2017 16: 09
          0
          About the time machine - in 1947 it was only possible to find out using the time machine that in 30 years AK would become such a world bestseller and therefore sculpting some legends, especially with secret developments, could only have occurred to the insane ... And if you take into account the second Half of the 50s, the military could not decide what to make the main weapon of the infantry of the AK or SKS, then in general the meaning of some sort of ideological manipulations is not clear at all ..
          1. iConst
            iConst 21 September 2017 16: 56
            +3
            Quote: mat-vey
            until the second half of the 50s, the military could not decide what to make them the main weapon of the infantry of the AK or SKS

            Yes, kagbe, WWII showed everything. What to equip the infantry was not a question. The question was how to equip the auxiliary parts.

            switched to captured Finnish Suomi submachine guns

            Given that there were almost no trophies, only at the end of the war, but by that time supplies to the army had been resumed. “Suomi” in the Finnish army was not a big plus plus a non-standard cartridge ... Well, a couple of dozens of reconnaissance groups used it, since it’s easier to get “native” cartridges on enemy territory.
            And the author did not know about the PDP, the release of which was resumed based on the results of using Suomi.

            Suomi was so effective and unpretentious at the time that some of its replicas are still used in armed conflicts in the Middle East and Africa

            Effective - yes, unpretentious - no. On the contrary, with a vacuum moderator very sensitive even to temperature differences. What can we say about the sand.
            And if you look at how many PPSh and thirty-four are still fighting in Africa and BV. laughing
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 21 September 2017 17: 02
              0
              [quote = iConst] [quote = mat-vey] until the second half of the 50s the military could not decide what to make them the main weapon of the infantry of the AK or SKS [/ quote]
              Yes, kagbe, WWII showed everything. What to equip the infantry was not a question. The question was how to equip the auxiliary parts.
              And therefore equipped with machine guns drill?
              1. iConst
                iConst 21 September 2017 17: 17
                0
                Quote: mat-vey
                Quote: iConst
                Quote: mat-vey
                until the second half of the 50s, the military could not decide what to make them the main weapon of the infantry of the AK or SKS

                Yes, kagbe, WWII showed everything. What to equip the infantry was not a question. The question was how to equip the auxiliary parts.
                And therefore equipped with machine guns drill?

                What is drill?
                SKS was adopted for several reasons: the high cost of the AK at that time (and the country was still in ruins) and the persistent illusion of staff that long-range precision rifles are needed in defense.

                As soon as these reasons, over time, disappeared, the SCS turned for the most part into a ceremonial weapon, and now it’s completely becoming a “citizen”.
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 21 September 2017 17: 20
                  +1
                  Well, you yourself answered ... after the 1959 competition, AK pulled up accuracy and accuracy and the issue was finally resolved. You still haven’t taken into account that by the time you solved the problem with bimetals for the production of cartridges and the issue of ammunition limitation also disappeared
                  1. iConst
                    iConst 21 September 2017 17: 23
                    0
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Well, you yourself answered ... after the 1959 contest, AK pulled up accuracy and accuracy and the issue was finally resolved.

                    Yes, what kind of competition? These are two different classes of weapons. They are not competitors to each other.
                    1. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 21 September 2017 17: 29
                      0
                      Quote: iConst
                      Yes, what kind of competition? These are two different classes of weapons. They are not competitors to each other.

                      The arms competition as a result of which AKM appeared. About "not competitors" is even strange to hear on such a resource - competitors, given the structure of the branch. The Americans only realized this in Vietnam ...
                      1. iConst
                        iConst 21 September 2017 17: 39
                        0
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        Quote: iConst
                        Yes, what kind of competition? These are two different classes of weapons. They are not competitors to each other.

                        The arms competition as a result of which AKM appeared. About "not competitors" is even strange to hear on such a resource - competitors, given the structure of the branch. The Americans only realized this in Vietnam ...

                        Well, Gazelka and KamAZ cannot compete. Each for his own.
                        And the fact that the headquarters play their tactical spools - who and how should fight, so usually real events show that they thought, as usual, not exactly "there." smile
                    2. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 21 September 2017 17: 46
                      +1
                      And where does Gazelka and KAMAZ come when it comes to the tasks and structure of the motor depot? And the "staff" ones were just right that AKM was the main type of personal small arms, and the Merikos before Vietnam thought that the main machine gun was in the compartment, and the rest of the fighters performed auxiliary function so enough and an automatic carbine ..
                      1. iConst
                        iConst 21 September 2017 18: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And where does Gazelka and KAMAZ when it comes to the tasks and structure of the car park?

                        You ask some strange questions. That's what we are talking about: we are determined by whom we serve and in what proportions - we deliver a couple of bags of construction mixtures to the apartments in the city or we serve the corporate customer building the cottage village.
                        Hence, what should we buy - KAMAZ or Gazlki, or both, and how many of these or those. One pallet of brick and Gazelle will pull away, only ...

                        Quote: mat-vey
                        And the "headquarters" were just right that the AKM was the main type of personal small arms, and the Merikos before Vietnam believed that the main machine gun was in the compartment, and the rest of the soldiers performed an auxiliary function, so that an automatic carbine would be enough ..

                        He did not study in detail the military doctrines of the United States, in particular during ground operations. But, it seems to me that you are mistaken. And there is a series of evidence:
                        - In service were mottled and frankly uncomfortable machine guns. Awareness may have come in the “process”, but initially they did not prepare for such a doctrine, unlike the Wehrmacht, which long before WWII realized and developed such tactics - everything was built around a machine gun and a single machine gun was developed.
                        - The troops were equipped exclusively with automatic weapons and by no means the cheapest. It is the equipment of the M1 Garand troops, which, in comparison with the store "manual-drive" rifles, created a high density of fire and testifies. that the command understood the significance of the density of fire, but took a different path. Since Garand was not cheap, in fact, a “baby garand” was specifically developed - the M1 Carbine for auxiliary troops. Well and complete the list is not cheap "Tommy Ghana."
                2. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 21 September 2017 18: 35
                  0
                  “I didn’t study the US military doctrines in detail,” but what about tactics?
        2. igordok
          igordok 21 September 2017 17: 24
          +2
          Quote: Dimy4
          About a time machine right to the point.

          In the film “Fog”, the AK hit option, the Wehrmacht, is played out. The film is somewhat commonplace, but the first time I watched it with pleasure.
      2. iouris
        iouris 22 September 2017 00: 43
        +2
        Quote: mat-vey
        Who will issue a patent to a secret designer?

        Copyright certificates were issued, acts of implementation, too, rationalization proposals were introduced and executed regularly. There was no patent for AK-47 for only one reason: it was not invented in the USSR. In many countries of the world (with impunity), AK-47 clones were produced (they say one of the best is in Pakistan). However, no clone can compare with an authentic machine. Here we can say that the Soviet gunsmiths were able to create a product of the highest quality from a successful engineering development. It costs a lot. This product appeared at a very characteristic historical moment and played such a historical role that no other type of weapon played. Kalashnikov - a native of the depths of the masses, personalizes this product. It is useless to argue with this fact. But nobody canceled the ideological war and Russophobia.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 22 September 2017 05: 07
          0
          Yes, yes, yes - we are adopting a secret automaton here, give us a pzhst patent ... And what about the patent for SCS? What does it refer to 2007 .. and yes, what about the patents for T-34, " Satan "and so on?
          1. iouris
            iouris 23 September 2017 00: 14
            0
            Satan or the T-34 as a whole cannot be patented. I read somewhere that the Tu-160 implemented more than a hundred inventions. But the inventor of a tie clip can earn millions of dollars by receiving a patent. Keep in mind that the wheel is not patented. However, when one crank from Australia wanted to get a patent for a wheel, they clearly explained to him that .... there is no need to do this.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 23 September 2017 05: 19
              0
              Well, tell me how AK can be patented in the "whole" .... by the way, like STG ..
    2. andrewkor
      andrewkor 21 September 2017 15: 33
      +4
      Exactly the same story happened with the Ilizarov apparatus. The Moscow academics didn’t let go, they all wanted to join in co-authors, until Brumel’s Ilizarov got on his feet after that, he received worldwide recognition and the Center in Kurgan. I met Gavriil Abramovich, 70 years old, at the clinic just about the fracture and the imposition of his apparatus. And there is also an officially unrecognized ASD2. Yes, a lot of things you can remember!
      1. Titsen
        Titsen 21 September 2017 16: 20
        +2
        Quote: andrewkor
        Yes, a lot of things you can remember!


        Here is an interesting photo and an article to it:


        Incomplete disassembly clearly demonstrates how radically redesigned the design of the AK-47 assault rifle (bottom) compared to the AK-46 (top)

        Http: //otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-i
        nf / avtomat-tkb-415 /
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 21 September 2017 16: 33
          0
          It’s a pity that the article does not have a photo of the first prototype of the Bulkin assault rifle .... Well, the AK-46 was the only one that fully completed the tasks of the competition (loading with an adjoined store), which naturally implies a separate gas piston rod and a bolt frame, this condition was removed on the next stage of the competition ...
        2. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
          Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 21 September 2017 22: 22
          +1
          Down below you sorry how
          times NOT so-called
          "AK-47", and already early
          serial just AK sample already starting
          after 1949

          And in Izhevsk in the museum
          really hanging still
          Kovrov sample 1947
          and the second one, it seems, in
          artillery museum in
          Peter.
          And it was this sample that was declared the winner
          Competition 1947
          There he is :



    3. BecmepH
      BecmepH 22 September 2017 08: 34
      +1
      some sergeant could invent something !!!
      About 15 years ago I went on a business trip to Moscow through Izhevsk. Two young men and a young woman rode with me in a compartment from Izhevsk. In Izhevsk, at that time, they were not the last people. I was in shape and naturally conversations revolved around the army. So, they told me such a story ... I don’t remember the details, but I will convey the essence. Kalashnikov worked in a team engaged in the creation of a new machine. The team was minimal. These were two designers and Kalashnikov himself (secrecy). The time has come and both designers took the prototype and all the documentation to Moscow. But ... the plane did not reach the capital. Crashed ... Everyone died and the documentation with a gun. So there you go! Kalashnikov from memory and what was left of the drawings recreated the machine. As far as I remember, he was in the team as a "golden hand." I do not plead at all the role of M. Kalashnikov, moreover, I consider him a talented person, but ... For what I bought, for that I sell it. By the way, M. Kalashnikov was in our unit and my wife was engaged in organizing his stay. Well, of course, in the home photo album there is a photo of his wife and son with a legendary man.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 22 September 2017 11: 21
        0
        Cool cranberries, When the AK was created at IzhMash there was no weapons design bureau .... The AK was born in Kovrov and Shchurovo. A temporary design team was really created in Kovrov, Degtyarev provided his designer Zaitsev and the draftsmen, and one of the draftswomen later became Kalashnikov's wife.
        1. BecmepH
          BecmepH 25 September 2017 06: 47
          0
          So I did not say that the machine was born in Izhevsk and drove it from Izhevsk.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 25 September 2017 06: 58
            0
            The tests took place in Shchurovo, it will be faster on foot there - cranberries are cranberries.
  2. mat-vey
    mat-vey 21 September 2017 15: 19
    +1
    In my opinion, the funny thing is that they are not discussing the AK-47 which the military ultimately rejected, the AKM that won the competition in 1959 and was put into service in 1961 ... But the discussion people do not even know. Well, it’s all from a dumb, not knowledge of history the creation of AK and the design path of M.T. Kalashnikov himself ...
    1. BecmepH
      BecmepH 25 September 2017 08: 45
      0
      Quote: mat-vey
      In my opinion, the funny thing is that they are not discussing the AK-47 which the military ultimately rejected, the AKM that won the competition in 1959 and was put into service in 1961 ... But the discussion people do not even know. Well, it’s all from a dumb, not knowledge of history the creation of AK and the design path of M.T. Kalashnikov himself ...

      And read ka, my dear, comrade Kungurov "Who actually invented the Kalashnikov assault rifle." Do not stoop to insults, expert,
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 25 September 2017 09: 51
        0
        And Malimon seems to be more truthful to me - he still took part ... And Kungurov doesn’t even pull on Petrosyan - he at least remembers Zaitsev (about the “Zaitsev design team” in general, you need to give the order of an idiot - Zaitsev is the beginning designer of Design Bureau Degtyarev, and you don’t know I’d at least read this and pretend to be a “subversive-whistleblower, only through a psychiatrist.” So Kungurov just proved once again - “Well, it’s all from the dumb not knowing the history of AK creation and the design path of MT Kalashnikov himself ... "
        1. BecmepH
          BecmepH 25 September 2017 10: 02
          0
          Impolite you and ... boring
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 25 September 2017 10: 05
            0
            So the truth always causes discomfort among liars ...
            1. BecmepH
              BecmepH 25 September 2017 10: 09
              0
              Quote: mat-vey
              So the truth always causes discomfort among liars ...

              Are you responsible for your words? Although, apparently, you are stubborn and no evidence will convince you. On the sim dispute with you I stop. All the best, my dear.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 25 September 2017 10: 13
                0
                And "you d..k" you have someone stole without a patent? ... Although if only one evidence, and the constant sucking of a finger ... And you the same and still go to the library ..
  3. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 21 September 2017 15: 25
    +2
    But I don’t like the monument ... Indeed, it was possible to make a sculpture by a kulman or with drawings .. After all, aircraft designers are not depicted in the cockpits of an airplane, and the Queen is near a rocket.
    1. krops777
      krops777 21 September 2017 16: 01
      +1
      But I don’t like the monument ... Indeed, it was possible to make a sculpture by a kulman or with drawings .. After all, aircraft designers are not depicted in the cockpits of an airplane, and the Queen is near a rocket.


      I support, the machine could not be sculpted, and so everyone knows who M.T. Kalashnikov.
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 21 September 2017 16: 53
        +1
        Quote: krops777
        .

        АВТОР To immediately understand who the monument
        Yes, Anikushin is well, he got Pushkin, but here .... Who will recognize him, who is the monument? Only if close on the plate ....
        I also see a monument to the creator, at a table or workbench. And here Izhevsk ripped off, one in one and with a bow on the side, pah made a mistake, AK.
        AK in general, a separate monument should be put up, but not in Moscow. Maybe in Vietnam?
      2. Alf
        Alf 21 September 2017 21: 03
        +1
        Quote: krops777
        and so everyone knows who MT is Kalashnikov.

        Who knows ? You, I, yes, you and I. The bulk knows that there is such a Kalashnikov, but does not know the designer in person. Install now the busts of Grabin and Koshkin with Morozov and the majority will also say, And who is this?
  4. Gamer
    Gamer 21 September 2017 16: 02
    +2
    Schmeiser could come up with and recorded on Kalashnikov. And most likely a symbiosis, the Germans built captive houses after the war and the roads could have joined the machine, a gloomy Teutonic genius.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 21 September 2017 16: 14
      +1
      Firstly, Schmeisser, and secondly, he then “invented the Kalashnikov carbine” in 1944 (at his age, through the front line to Shchurovo, wound up), and AK began to do the truth in Zul’s weapons factories in the USSR, somehow managing to make components ... Yes, and Sudayev's design school on the Internet adopted ...
      1. Gamer
        Gamer 21 September 2017 16: 26
        +2
        it may very well be, but here a knowledgeable person tells on the shelves - AK = 95% of the Schmeisser rifle.
        http://nasamomdele.narod.ru/2013/131225_1.mp3
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 21 September 2017 16: 39
          +1
          Schmeisser didn’t have an “automatic rifle”, Schmeisser had an automatic carbine MKb-42 (H) there is also that “knowing” ...
        2. avt
          avt 21 September 2017 16: 59
          +3
          Quote: Gamer
          it may very well be, but here a knowledgeable person tells on the shelves - AK = 95% of the Schmeisser rifle.

          The stupid laziness of the information that didn’t come out of scooping is not even from Murzilka, but the funny pictures are indestructible. And ANY links to the subject licked by this type
          Quote: mat-vey
          Schmeisser didn’t have an “automatic rifle”, Schmeisser had an automatic carbine MKb-42 (H) there is also that “knowing” ..

          и
          Quote: d ^ Amir
          plus Schmeiser was serving in Izhevsk, and Kalashnikov worked in Kovrov ... well, for especially talented ones ... STG44 disassembly:

          All that’s one thing is to throw a bisser in front of pigs. One more expert will come out with
          Quote: Snowball
          This is a German submachine gun, slightly changed it and that’s it. I do not know.

          The main thing is to throw on the fan, and to the question
          Quote: mat-vey
          And what “changed a little"? List pzhst ...

          Estessno famous answer, "Sanki Vsodogodacha" - ,, I am not in the same group of fuckers "
          Quote: Snowball
          Yes, I do not know.

          But I know for sure, because
          Quote: Snowball
          Just a long time ago articles were written on the Internet.

          And this is just the same great mechanicus
          Quote: Snowball
          Over there, almost all pistols are almost the same as clones.

          fool
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 22 September 2017 07: 20
            +3
            Quote: avt
            And this is just the same great mechanicus

            hi Welcome Shark Mapshal laughing , a long time ago it was not visible, boring without you crying
            1. avt
              avt 22 September 2017 08: 32
              +1
              Quote: Serg65
              I haven’t seen it for a long time, it’s boring without you

              hi Yes, a boring, refined site has become, again, the idiots are tired of and outright idlers, who are stupidly lazy to work with a search engine before clicking on a clave button. Here it is, "Snowball" with the other, "Snow White," dancing on the subject of weapons, which even here on the site in the articles were sorted like a screw.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 22 September 2017 08: 40
                +3
                Quote: avt
                Yes, a boring, refined website has become

                Your truth, my friend! A year ago, and serious articles, and most importantly interesting, were not uncommon in these fields ..... and what kind of battles unfolded around them !!!!!
                Now it feels like the site is following the rating .....
        3. purple
          purple 21 September 2017 20: 28
          +2
          Quote: Gamer
          it may very well be, but here a knowledgeable person tells on the shelves - AK = 95% of the Schmeisser rifle.
          http://nasamomdele.narod.ru/2013/131225_1.mp3

          drinks smaller and think bigger with your head ... not the internet
      2. d ^ Amir
        d ^ Amir 21 September 2017 16: 27
        +2
        plus Schmeiser was serving in Izhevsk, and Kalashnikov worked in Kovrov ... well, for especially talented ones ... STG44 disassembly:
        1. d ^ Amir
          d ^ Amir 21 September 2017 16: 33
          +2
          and parsing M16 / M4
  5. Snowball
    Snowball 21 September 2017 16: 40
    0
    This is a German submachine gun, slightly changed it and that’s it. I do not know.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 21 September 2017 16: 42
      +1
      And what “changed a little"? List pzhst ...
      1. Snowball
        Snowball 21 September 2017 16: 44
        +1
        Yes, I do not know. Just a long time ago articles were written on the Internet.

        Yes, take a finished product or a sample to create your own - there is nothing shameful in this. On the contrary, it should be so. So everywhere.

        Do not reinvent the wheel occupied by everyone ...

        Over there, almost all pistols are almost the same as clones.
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 21 September 2017 16: 47
          +5
          Well, if "not in the know", then you don’t need to distribute stupid fairy tales .... And just take and at least read the same Malimon ...
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 21 September 2017 21: 46
          +2

          And what's that?
          "STURMGEVER - CUT TO THE ISRAELI BALASHNIKOV CONSTRUCTOR" ???
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 22 September 2017 05: 00
            0
            Israel Galili was never Balashnikov, but simply adapted Valmet Rk 62 for Israeli production], which, in turn, is a variant of the Kalashnikov assault rifle. But the Jews stamped the receiver.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 22 September 2017 08: 27
              0
              cyclowiki.org
              "For creating "Galil and Lior were awarded the weapons in 1973 for their contribution to the defense of Israel."
              Creation - they believe that he CREATED, and not just reassigned Valmet Rk 62 (AK-47) under a 5,56mm cartridge!
    2. Alf
      Alf 21 September 2017 21: 05
      +1
      Quote: Snowball
      This is a German submachine gun, slightly changed it and that’s it. I do not know.

      It’s interesting how you can “slightly” remake the VAZ-2101 to make a Mercedes-600?
      Did you understand what you said?
    3. hohol95
      hohol95 21 September 2017 21: 50
      +2
      Before the start of World War II, the Wehrmacht showed minimal interest in self-loading rifles, infantry tactics were built around single machine guns supported by foot soldiers with the usual Mauser K98k magazine carbines. Only the entry of Germany into the World War pushed the Wehrmacht to self-loading weapons, and in 1941 the first small batch of self-loading rifles created by Mauser Werke and Carl Walther Waffenfabrik entered the army. These rifles were designated G41 (M) and G41 (W), respectively. Both of these rifles had an unsuccessful gas venting system with the selection of powder gases from the muzzle, in the area of ​​the muzzle of the barrel. Nevertheless, the Walter rifle proved to be somewhat more promising, and therefore in 1943 it was modified - the unsuccessful German vent system was replaced by a much more successful system, borrowed from the Soviet rifle Tokarev SVT-40.
      Who is WHO and borrowed - to understand and understand ...
  6. complete zero
    complete zero 21 September 2017 17: 00
    0
    Quote: captain
    Kalashnikov is a great designer. His AKMS assault rifle personally experienced in Afghanistan, an excellent weapon of the time. I also tried English submachine guns and American automatic rifles (M-4 and M-16). Kalashnikov surpassed them in reliability and simplicity, though the accuracy was worse, but for the assault rifle of that time it was not the main thing.
    Dear author, your words: “Kalashnikov did not have a patent for the whole machine as an invention, which surprised those who simply worried about Mikhail Timofeevich as a retired person. He owned Soviet patents for some mechanisms and parts of AK-47, which Wasserman seized upon this moment - the lack of a patent for the entire product - but this, if you think about it, is just a retrospective look from the modern world - they could not give a patent for AK-47 to the USSR, because they could (according for security reasons or without any clear considerations) "It is not surprising that Kalashnikov did not receive a patent, well, how could bureaucrats assume that some sergeant could invent something !!! Then the graduates of Baumanka could not come up with anything, but the sergeant came up with; a mess. It’s like with Sholokhov’s “Quiet Don”, a whole commission was organized in Sweden, which proved that Sholokhov wrote, and our party officials, literary “geniuses” did not want to take it on faith. Well, the Cossack couldn’t write such a thing, well, he couldn’t, because he is KAZAK, an enemy of the people by definition. So with Kalashnikov, there are a lot of envious people.

    "but for the assault rifle of that time it was NOT the main thing" ... But what has changed since then? ... nothing, and now for the MASS draft army the Kalashnikov assault rifle is what you need.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 21 September 2017 17: 06
      0
      Well, the adaptive butt would not hurt ...
  7. Sivasa
    Sivasa 21 September 2017 17: 31
    +1
    What is sport about?

    If about the monument. That for me he is just ugly and does not at all reflect the identity of Kalashnikov. It seems that the monument is not a designer but a machine gun. But the taste and color ...

    If about authorship. Of course, the design did not appear to Kalashnikov in a dream. Of course I watched, studied, adopted, copied, developed, improved, took the best. This is a normal design job!

    As for the topic of authorship, then today
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 21 September 2017 17: 35
      0
      Ugly monuments, these are the trends of the time ...
      1. Sivasa
        Sivasa 21 September 2017 17: 42
        0
        The fashion of sovereignty strikes impersonal idols.
  8. Adviser
    Adviser 21 September 2017 18: 58
    0
    In my opinion, the issue can be solved much easier. It is possible that Wasserman and the other Icebergs, the Vaisberg-Rabinovichi, are much more authoritative specialists in the field of small arms than M. Kalashnikov. God be with them. But for many years in the world only AK modifications have been produced, but the release of the German "wunder-waffe" is carried out only in the form of collectible models and airsoft toys.
    And with respect to patents, this is generally a purely Jewish approach. In the USSR, patent law in relation to small arms (and any other) weapons is somehow not even funny ...
  9. panzerfaust
    panzerfaust 21 September 2017 19: 14
    +1
    Yes, but why didn’t anyone mention the engineer of the Kovrov plant Zaitsev! Without his active participation, Kalashnikov could not have created an AK, due to the lack of special education. It was Zaitsev who performed all the calculations for the reliability of the design. And he was somehow undeservedly "pushed."
  10. nafanal
    nafanal 21 September 2017 21: 25
    +2
    How long can this question be procrastinated. I saw this stormtrooper. The truth was not allowed to be held in my hands. How elegant and witty and most importantly the Kalashnikov was made so poorly and rudely the stormtrooper was made. Even the usual forearm was not able to adapt. Wehrmacht soldiers received hand burns. The Soviet weapons school superior to the German one. Entire German divisions were armed with captured PPSh. By the end of the war they even mastered PPS in production. So Michal Timofeyich is a great Russian gunsmith. And the monument deserved
  11. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
    Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 21 September 2017 21: 38
    +1
    Quote: mat-vey
    Well, the AK-46 was the only sample that fully completed the tasks of the competition (loading with an adjoined store), which naturally implies a separate gas piston rod and a bolt frame, this condition was removed at the next stage of the competition


    This requirement passed to the competition.
    inherited from just accepted
    into service with SKS-45 and it made sense
    only with the same permanent store.
    With a removable store opportunity
    loading from the top of the clips only
    will contribute more
    double dirt
    shortened receiver cover
    and make the shutter frame on top
    "naked".
    That's right that they refused.
    Vaughn, Ketays somehow tried
    marry Simonov with Kalashnikov,
    but soon this nonsense was abandoned :-)))

    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 22 September 2017 05: 32
      0
      But nevertheless, only Kalashnikov fulfilled this requirement, which affected the reliability of the AK-46. And it just prompted to abandon this "option".
  12. Snowball
    Snowball 22 September 2017 00: 08
    0
    In a sculpture dedicated to the legendary Soviet gunsmith Mikhail Kalashnikov, which was opened on September 19 in Moscow, military historian Yuri Pasholok discovered a circuit of a German machine gun MKb.42 (W).
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 22 September 2017 05: 39
      0
      This is what kind of “advanced cretin” you need to be in order not to distinguish an annular piston with a guide sleeve from a gas tube with a piston and a bolt frame? By the way, there was an automaton with a similar circuit in the competition - it turned out to be typical not right at once.
  13. complete zero
    complete zero 22 September 2017 02: 45
    0
    Quote: Gamer
    it may very well be, but here a knowledgeable person tells on the shelves - AK = 95% of the Schmeisser rifle.
    http://nasamomdele.narod.ru/2013/131225_1.mp3

    so what of this? .... it’s natural that borrowing some ideas (“somewhere and from someone”) is a worldwide practice ... the American missile program (and ours in fact) is built on the projects of Mr. Brown ... what doesn’t mean complete copying at all
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 22 September 2017 05: 41
      0
      But what about all sorts of Roberts Goddards and other Zander?
  14. complete zero
    complete zero 22 September 2017 02: 52
    +1
    Quote: panzerfaust
    Yes, but why didn’t anyone mention the engineer of the Kovrov plant Zaitsev! Without his active participation, Kalashnikov could not have created an AK, due to the lack of special education. It was Zaitsev who performed all the calculations for the reliability of the design. And he was somehow undeservedly "pushed."

    so, after all, Korolev also had an engineer in the design bureau .. you know many?
  15. tasha
    tasha 22 September 2017 04: 22
    +2
    It’s strange. The author of the article also uses dubious facts, for example:
    The People’s Commissariat of Defense, headed by Marshal Voroshilov, simply did not believe in this weapon and considered it pointless, which hindered the development of promising developments in this area. The "cavalry faction" won the final victory after the shooting of the "Tukhachevsky group", since it was Tukhachevsky who promoted the rearmament program.
    1. mat-vey
      mat-vey 22 September 2017 05: 45
      +1
      Moreover, they shot and immediately took up rearmament ... Moreover, they began to rearm themselves with tanks, machine guns and self-loading rifles without forgetting about artillery ..
      1. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
        Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 22 September 2017 10: 38
        0
        Do not forget that
        executed Tukhachevsky
        was an ardent supporter
        so full of stupid things
        like wheeled-tracked
        tanks and "universal"
        both field and
        at the same time
        ... anti-aircraft guns with an angle
        lifting the trunk under
        90 degrees and circular
        sector of fire ...
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 22 September 2017 11: 14
          +1
          And he also demanded that all artillery be replaced with dynamo-reactive cannons. And about 100 thousand pieces of wheeled-tracked tanks had to be built according to his searchlights, well, it was planned to use them with an avalanche without any support - that’s also a genius
          1. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
            Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 22 September 2017 12: 25
            0
            My grandfather on
            Khalkhin Gol was
            "conscript" -
            after room after
            technical school and he told me
            very colorful
            described how they
            steam infantry
            manually pulled those
            BT-shki from the mud after
            first rain
            surrounding each and every one
            around the perimeter
            a few dozen
            person...

            Beautifully BT-shki drove
            only Kryuchkov in
            "Tractor drivers" :-)))
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 22 September 2017 12: 36
              +2
              My grandfather on BG-7 near Moscow in the 1st tank brigade began to fight with mech-water ... I said when you were driving through a German, you feel you were driving along your chest or chest. And the worst thing was when landing with trailed sledges he’ll jump, and the kingpin that holds the chain of the sleigh will not be pulled out by the squad ... Death is certain - the sleigh between the houses in the village that is being stormed the tank gets stuck stake the Germans burn it right there ... He had a friend, he died in one company - in front of his eyes ...
          2. Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
            Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich 22 September 2017 12: 36
            0
            Suggest relaxing
            and clean neighing ...
            Here, tavarisch eun
            zhzhzhzhzhot ...
            I do not know the capacity, but
            imagine how much
            it can weigh
            equipped
            condition :-)))
            Interesting,
            Kalashnikov Jr.
            NOT to blame the Koreans
            in plagiarism of "Bison" ?!

  16. iaroslav.mudryi
    iaroslav.mudryi 22 September 2017 17: 32
    +1
    Closing the topic Kalashnikov vs Schmeisser: http://mpopenker.livejournal.com/1850980.html
    and more on this topic Schmeisser in Izhevsk (screenshots of archival documents):
    https://topwar.ru/56746-shmaysser-v-izhevske.html
  17. complete zero
    complete zero 22 September 2017 18: 52
    0
    Quote: mat-vey
    My grandfather on BG-7 near Moscow in the 1st tank brigade began to fight with mech-water ... I said when you were driving through a German, you feel you were driving along your chest or chest. And the worst thing was when landing with trailed sledges he’ll jump, and the kingpin that holds the chain of the sleigh will not be pulled out by the squad ... Death is certain - the sleigh between the houses in the village that is being stormed the tank gets stuck stake the Germans burn it right there ... He had a friend, he died in one company - in front of his eyes ...

    (respect to GRANDFATHER) .. you DO NOT show this in films ... Mine, told (sapper the whole war) ... how they removed the minefields in front of the reconnaissance group ... and at neutral came across a German reconnaissance group (creeping into our rear) ..and positions are shot from our side, and the same from German)))) ... start the "war" will cover immediately ... Generally crawled without interfering with each other (each according to his own business) ... here it is true of war
  18. Some kind of compote
    Some kind of compote 24 September 2017 08: 35
    +17
    Still a monument to Fedorov to put - the world's first AUTOMATIC
  19. fif21
    fif21 24 September 2017 19: 39
    +1
    Many saw how an apple falls from an apple tree, but only Newton derived the law of gravity from this. Everything ingenious is simple, this is what makes AK different from all similar weapons. And the shutter is just a masterpiece. hi
  20. Vard
    Vard 25 September 2017 12: 51
    0
    Well, if you really be completely objective ... then all the powder weapons are of Chinese origin ... they are attributed the invention of gunpowder ...