New small-sized machines from Kalashnikov: AM-17 and AMB-17

Small-sized machine AM-17 caliber 5,45 × 39 mm, presented at the International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2017" Concern "Kalashnikov", designed as a light and maneuverable weapon self-defense for the calculation of military equipment and special purpose units, which in the future can replace the withdrawn from production at the end of 1990-s AKS-74U.

On the basis of AM-17, a silenced AMB-17 9 × 39 mm caliber equipped with a silencer was developed, which in the future is planned as a replacement for the AS “Val” and the BCC “Vintorez” rifle.

Comments

[Hermann]

It’s a pity they didn’t show incomplete disassembly, it’s secretly still, but it’s interesting what’s inside. And so cute.

[owl]

Here you see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WFOhdVSIXk&t
= 0s

[32363]

Quote: gufo

Here you see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WFOhdVSIXk&t
= 0s

it can be seen that outwardly a little flawed, the butt is confused, but in terms of simplicity of the mechanism and incomplete disassembly , very interesting pepelats.

[32363]

cool , I like samples in which there are not all kinds of technical bends and holes, this suggests reasonableness and a great prospect.

[NEXUS]

There are slight doubts that the AM-17 is better than Vintorez, which has been tested by time and in combat conditions.

[CorvusCoraks]

Better than the shaft. Vintorez - a sniper rifle silent, without fire at a short distance. And this, as I understood from the article, is automatic. The machine must be compared with the shaft. Also interesting, is it much better? Is it better at all.

[raf]

And this, as I understood from the article, is automatic. The machine must be compared with the shaft

So it’s written in the article

in the future it is planned as a replacement for the AS Val and the VSS Vintorez rifle.

I wonder how the machine can replace a sniper rifle ?! Well zhurnalyugi!

[Hardyhard]

VALA from the jambs is frankly not comfortable to fire the trigger and the trigger, but due to its small size, clumsy ergonomics and tight running is extremely uncomfortable, another disadvantage is the uncomfortable weight distribution if you also attach tactics of some kind of flashlight or lts to the trunk, you need to swing hard left hand)

[ProkletyiPirat]

cut the barrel, got a deterioration in accuracy compared to long-lengths, what’s the benefit? to carry two trunks? or can rearm every time before assignment? or maybe in the organization of different types of units with different weapons along the length of the barrel? all this nonsense

[cariperpaint]

size benefits. in size.

[CorvusCoraks]

In compactness, less weight.
The same is for special operations, such as sweeping buildings from militants - shooting at short distances, tightness in a space where you can not aim, stick out, turn around everywhere, you can’t use super-accuracy there. And not the combined arms weapon with which to sit in the trenches.

[ProkletyiPirat]

two captains of evidence So what are you going to carry two machines? Well, one to shoot inside the house, and the second to shoot from the house. Well, or maybe you will use one while breaking through to the house, and take another before entering the building? and probably you’ll hand over the first to the wardrobe? But, no, you probably suggest using two units, one will be brought home, and the second will work inside? And the first thing to do at this time? play cards?

You’d better ask why all this talk about a “short machine” or a “new machine” started. I explain to the lazy. The pistol has small BK (1) and poor range-accuracy (2), poor rate of fire-density of fire (3), poor damaging (4) and stopping (5) properties, but it is ideal indoors (6). The submachine gun with "1,3" is fine, but with the rest just the same. For long machines (AK 47,74, hundredths, etc) everything is fine with "1,2,3,4,5" but terrible with "6". This situation forces either to produce extra life of different "intermediate" versions of weapons, or to prepare different units where part of the soldiers in some situations will be ballast. As a rule, "all options for a little bit" are used. This trouble is being treated by creating a new machine that would allow to solve a wider range of tasks on different theater. From 100% of the mandatory requirements for this submachine gun, 1) an intermediate cartridge with barrel locking 2) Maximizing the barrel length while minimizing the length of the weapon 3) Integrated silencer-flame arrester 4) The ability to use a grenade launcher (here I will make a reservation, use from the “shoulder”, and not from the "land").
And so I ask you to pay attention to paragraph "2)" which unfolds in two subparagraphs 2.1) using the bulpap layout (this is where the trigger is in front, and not where the magazine is in the butt! (This is for the dumb!)) And 2.2) the use of truncated length shutter with a decrease in the length of its stroke. I also ask you to pay attention to the lack of grenade launcher, So what of this was done on the AM-17 \ AMB-17? and the answer nothing, which means the group will have to either commission a ballast fighter or carry additional trunks. As a result, this will not differ from today's situation when there is a choice or deterioration of the operating parameters or an extra barrel.

[cariperpaint]

but in general they are well done. in development do not spare money. not everything will be included in the series, but what line they present now is impressive.

[Grach-25sm]

PDV in its pure form - a class! Butt, probably a typewriter, comfortable. For doctors, signalmen, grenade throwers.

[Wowander]

And for tankers, pilots.

[SOLO52rus]

Why is VINTAR bad?

[Chever]

Why is VINTAR bad?

And now what not to develop, but to sit with everything old?

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Chever

And now what not to develop, but to sit with everything old?

But what is AM \ AMB this development? What did they develop?

[Strezhevchanin]

Yes, everyone is good, but only at 5.45 translate it and shove it into extras.
And so the machine is standing.

[enot73]

On the basis of AM-17, a silenced AMB-17 9 × 39 mm caliber equipped with a silencer was developed, which in the future is planned as a replacement for the AS “Val” and the BCC “Vintorez” rifle.

And what does Val and Vintorez not like?

[mat-vey]

It seems like a little expensive and a small resource.

[MaxMelan]

I am glad that they are developing. But I do not reckon that screw cutters will replace. They can be compactly packed in a case, interchangeability with shafts. Question about accuracy. Vintarez all the same pain sniper, but the resource of the barrel is small. Well, and more weight will win? Well, all the same, it can equip the crews with machine guns. All kinds of chestnuts, cedars, cypresses. Even pistols at least. Do they need automatic machines?

[prosto_rgb]

Oh open type spiral muffler - my respect

[Evgenii Xolod]

Funny gnomes)))))

[Warnoob]

AKS-74U won the competition from MA. Now, on the basis of MA, they are replacing the AKS-74U. It turns out interestingly.

[And Us Rat]

Nice machine, it would be interesting to try it at the dash.

[analgin]

Quote: And Us Rat

Nice machine, it would be interesting to try it at the dash.

Israel is not America.

[And Us Rat]

Quote: analgin

Israel is not America.

Well, flying is not a problem.
Although in America it is unlikely, I have not heard that weapons under the 9 × 39 cartridge would be exported to the American civilian market.

[Hardyhard]

A little incorrect comparison of two different and completely different types of weapons, for different purposes, different BP, TTX and so on .... this is a common shorty AKSU difference in the butt in which there is nothing new even at the time of its development the principle is the same as for everyone PPS-42, PPS-43 or MR-40, in disassembly, which also resembles PPS and the main difference is the "dragunovsky" piston which needs to be cleaned up to be cleaned more than on AK ....

[Oqtagooi]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

This trouble is being treated by creating a new machine that would allow to solve a wider range of tasks on different theater. From 100% of the mandatory requirements for this submachine gun, 1) an intermediate cartridge with barrel locking 2) Maximizing the barrel length while minimizing the length of the weapon 3) Integrated silencer-flame arrester 4) The ability to use a grenade launcher (here I will make a reservation, use from the “shoulder”, and not from the "land").

Well, actually, the Gryazev assault rifle, after some modifications, was adopted by the name of ADS. The layout of the bulpap is there, there is an under-barrel grenade launcher, there is an intermediate cartridge with locking the barrel, there is a silencer, although it is removable, because shooting under water is problematic with it. Replaces underwater, conventional and silent machines. They even realized the ejection of cartridges forward-to the right, through the branch pipe, so that the cartridges and powder gases did not fly into the face of the shooter. Only now, nobody but the special forces of the Russian Navy is in a hurry to take this armament into service, can you explain why? The answer is that they are all fools, and I’m a genius whose revelations you are not capable of understanding downs are not accepted in principle. :)

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: OQtagooi

ADS. The layout of the bulpap is there, there is an under-barrel grenade launcher, there is an intermediate cartridge with locking the barrel, there is a silencer, although it is removable, because shooting under water is problematic with it. Replaces underwater, conventional and silent machines.

Ha, if everything was so simple, everything is understandable at the conceptual level of development, but problems arise on the engineering and production industry that no one has solved yet, but most likely have not tried (due to qualifications and / or financing and / or desire-understanding that and why you need to do).
Regarding ADF, I personally see such problems
1) non-integrated silencer - therefore, the length of the weapon is not used effectively, and putting / removing the silencer in battle is complete nonsense
2) mount the bottom of the store -
2.1) it will constantly cling to the fighter’s body-kit and something around - the store is shorter for other bullpups and / or the weapon is made more elongated down so that it glides but does not cling
2.2) problems with replacing the store - IMPORTANT! the problem with the bulpups is not that it is "invisible where to insert" (this is treated with training and special grooves in the right places), but that when the store is connected, the fighter’s bodywork gets in the way and the balance is disturbed (the butt goes up)
3) I can not say anything about the reliability, manufacturability of production and performance characteristics of firing because I do not have access to information, and on the Internet her cat cried.
4) The need to completely retrain the fighters, these are both racks and reloads and the most terrible and hemorrhoid hand-to-hand combat with a machine gun.
5) Lack of information on applicability under left-handed / right-handed

But I personally do not like ADS (as a single machine) for the reason that there are conceptual models of machines that are better than him. So in one of the forums dedicated to the firearm, I saw sketches of a machine gun in which
a) two stores are located left-right along the trunk - the problem is solved under number 2.1 and 2.2, additionally allows you to use different ammunition (there is a switch to select the store used)
b) an integrated silencer-flame arrester-gas removal system-barrel cooling system -
b.1) due to which it is unnecessary to switch the gas piston between different modes (water \ air \ subsonic \ supersonic), which is not actually implemented in the ADF (there, as I understand it, the partial shock absorption from gunpowder but not from the bullet, so TTX by noise should be worse than screw cutter \ shaft)
b.2) this system, or rather the system (the author presented several of them created and tested personally by him) allows you to combine an automatic machine gun / machine gun \ sniper rifle, there is a special lever for switching the operating mode. (here it must be clarified that the "sniper rifle" is analog screw cutter, not SVD, that is, with a range limit (for urban distances))
p.1) without a spring magazine - due to which it is unnecessary to constantly re-equip it
p.2) the same store but more capacious (under the "machine gun" operating mode)
It is worth mentioning that the authors of the above models are fans of a gunshot, and not professional weapons designers with access to customers, industries and laboratories, because for many years they have problems with the implementation and practical testing of their achievements (they are at least 3-5 years old engaged). Although it must be admitted that for their money they made good samples, albeit from civilian materials. I especially liked the non-spring magazines magazine and ribbon hybrids, a very simple and beautiful idea to use the piston movement to seal cartridges in the magazine.

[Oqtagooi]

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

But I personally do not like ADS (as a single machine) for the reason that there are conceptual models of machines that are better than him.

Please give a link to at least one example embodied in metal. :)

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

without a spring magazine - thanks to which it is unnecessary to constantly re-equip it

It was realized at the beginning of the last century in the machine guns of Lewis and Degtyarev. Disadvantages - the complexity of the design leading to weight and reduce reliability.

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

two stores are located left-right along the trunk - the problem number 2.1 and 2.2 is solved

And much more significant problems are added to the problems of changing the center of gravity of the weapon at the expense of ammunition. And yes, of course, two stores change faster than one. :)

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

making it unnecessary to switch the gas piston between different modes (water / air

Oh, how, and gas dynamics will go like a forest and Bernoulli’s law will take with him.

Quote: ProkletyiPirat

Lack of information on applicability under left-handed / right-handed

In the ADF, the ejection of cartridges forward, and the reloading handle on top, what more information do you need?

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: OQtagooi

Please give a link to at least one example embodied in metal. :)

Was not created by them full automatic machines, test models as many as several pieces in different versions, and they did not plan to make a ready-made machine (in the sense of ready for state tests), without making access to factory equipment and laboratories, it makes no sense.

Quote: OQtagooi

It was realized at the beginning of the last century in the machine guns of Lewis and Degtyarev. Disadvantages - the complexity of the design leading to weight and reduce reliability.

Well, the old song begins again, "this cannot be - because it cannot be, and indeed it has already been done and did not like." So where did you get that disk-shaped store like Lewis? Did you ever think that you did not see the voiced store? and that I did not describe it to you? and that therefore you have no idea about its appearance and especially the advantages / disadvantages? No, it’s much easier to blurt out without thinking .. In conclusion: there the plastic store looks similar to the FN P90 but differs.

Quote: OQtagooi

And much more significant problems are added to the problems of changing the center of gravity of the weapon at the expense of ammunition. And yes, of course, two stores change faster than one. :)

The speed of replacing two magazines does not exceed the speed of replacing a machine-gun belt, and taking into account the fact that only one of the shops can be changed, the reload time decreases significantly.

Quote: OQtagooi

Oh, how, and gas dynamics will go like a forest and Bernoulli’s law will take with him.

This is the beauty of the solution of combining all the elements into one system, the essence is very simple, the excess gases go to a muffler, which is made movable. That is, the ADF has one of the channels blocked so that the excess gases do not go out into the face of the arrow, and here these gases go into the muffler in any case.

[timeout]

Quote: OQtagooi

It was realized at the beginning of the last century in the machine guns of Lewis and Degtyarev. Disadvantages - the complexity of the design leading to weight and reduce reliability.

Really? And when for DP became springless? The knowledge you immediately see is superficial ....