The United States began transporting missile defense systems to South Korea

The US military has begun to transport four additional THAAD missile defense systems from the US Air Force Base in Osan to the agreed location in Sondju County, the news agency Renhap reports.

About ten vehicles left the base on 00.32 on Thursday (18.32 on Wednesday Moscow time). In case of emergency, the convoy is escorted by local police officers.

- said in a statement

On Wednesday, Seoul announced the deployment of four additional launchers of the US THAAD missile defense system in South Korea against the background of the DPRK nuclear test last weekend. The missile defense system launchers will be deployed by US forces in South Korea on Thursday at a new base in Sondju, 300 kilometers south of Seoul.

At the same time, there are reports of protests that have begun. So residents of the South Korean province of Kensan-pukto came to the rally against the deployment of American THAAD systems in the country, the manifestation turned into clashes with the police.

Around 400, residents of one of the villages of Sonju county, where additional complexes are planned to be deployed, took to the street opposite the local administration building. The police tried to push the protesters from the administrative building, but the protesters tried to rush inside, a struggle ensued. According to preliminary data, there are victims, their status is not specified, transfers RIA News.

Comments

[Cutter]

I don’t understand something, Seoul is located 25 kilometers from the border with the DPRK, it seems, and these are placing missiles in the 300's south ... In any case, there is a reason, the iron went!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Cutter

I don’t understand something, Seoul is located 25 kilometers from the border with the DPRK, it seems, and these are placing missiles in the 300's south ... In any case, there is a reason, the iron went!

In 25 km only the outskirts. The main areas of Seoul are at 40km from the border. And missile defense, in principle, should intercept missiles that also will not be at the border.

[cniza]

The United States has achieved its goals and has yet to breathe in armaments for a tidy sum, they have divorced everyone like suckers.

[To be or not to be]

Yes, and the old two-sided trade agreements require the cancellation and conclusion of new ones beneficial to the USA

[Cutter]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: Cutter

I don’t understand something, Seoul is located 25 kilometers from the border with the DPRK, it seems, and these are placing missiles in the 300's south ... In any case, there is a reason, the iron went!

In 25 km only the outskirts. The main areas of Seoul are at 40km from the border. And missile defense, in principle, should intercept missiles that also will not be at the border.

Aaron, 25 or 40 km. for ballistic-nonsense. And North Koreans have missiles of a different class on a car chassis, so if not from the border itself, they can very close to shy. However, personally, I strongly doubt the quality and capabilities of the American missile defense system!

[To be or not to be]

Anecdote: "- Why did the US at one time start a war against Iraq?
- Well, they said that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
“Will they now start a war against North Korea?”
- Nah, they won’t start.
- Why not?
- Because the DPRK really has it! "

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Cutter

I don’t understand something, Seoul is located 25 kilometers from the border with the DPRK, it seems, but these deploy missiles in the 300s to the south ...

So you had to turn your head on when they applauded in chorus and continued to the wise Eun! What do you think, against whom are these interceptors aimed, if for reference: the launch range of the intercepted ballistic missile at THAAD, up to 3500 km ...?

[Tusv]

Quote: Thunderbolt

, if for reference: the launch range of a THAAD intercepted ballistic missile, up to 3500 km ...?

For reference, the interception range is 200 km. Launch range of 3500 it is believed that the speed of the attacking warhead is about 5 max

[igorj 51]

What do you think, against whom are these interceptors aimed, if for reference: the launch range of the intercepted ballistic missile at THAAD, up to 3500 km ...?

You are here mentoring the tone of the teacher urge others to turn on their heads. Although it wouldn’t hurt you to turn it on yourself, it’s better to read at least on the Internet what is the interception range of a TXAAD anti-missile system, instead of giving the estimated range of an intercepted missile .. So the interception range of a TXAAD anti-missile is no more than 200km. That's actually draw conclusions before clever.

[My doctor]

Quote: igorj 51

You are here mentoring the tone of the teacher urge others to turn on their heads. Although it wouldn’t hurt you to turn it on yourself, it’s better to read at least on the Internet what is the interception range of a TXAAD anti-missile system, instead of giving the estimated range of an intercepted missile .. So the interception range of a TXAAD anti-missile is no more than 200km. That's actually draw conclusions before clever.

So you know much more than the GDP that expressed concern in an interview about the possibility of shortly intercepting US ballistic targets over long distances. So part of the intelligence does not reach the president, but lies on your table?
Isn't it funny?

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: igorj 51

That's actually draw conclusions before clever.

And here is the interception range of 200 km? Read carefully, and then draw your conclusions!)

launch range intercepted THAAD ballistic missile, up to 3500 km.

Now it’s clear why the PRC and the Russian Federation are so sharply against the deployment of these complexes in Korea ..?

[DEPARTMENT]

The United States places these systems not against the DPRK, but against Russia and China! Eun, of course, well done, he sent the USA, but China and we will have a headache! Well, what will we work in this direction ..
I think Putin has closely discussed all these threats with X .. We will concentrate not only in the military sphere, but most of all in the economic sphere .. This time the US will not be promoted to a new arms race! Everything will be at a minimum, if anything we loose .. Many countries trust Russia, we will destroy this world structure slowly! Experience is available ..
"Chew pineapples, grouse chew! Your last day comes bourgeois ..."

[My doctor]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

The United States places these systems not against the DPRK, but against Russia and China! Eun, of course, well done, he sent the USA, but China and we will have a headache! Well, what will we work in this direction ..

Dear DEPARTMENT, I am interested to know your personal opinion on the relationship between the DPRK and the PRC. What do you think made the DPRK under the patronage of China develop and create nuclear weapons and their carriers. If they act in concert, does this not mean that Korea will become a kind of battering ram for China, for actions for which China cannot go openly, and what are the prospects for Russia. Or if the DPRK acts without coordination with the PRC, then for what reason the Korean leadership cannot rely on China, why invest colossal money in nuclear weapons, and whether North Korea’s actions harm China?

[Gray brother]

Quote: Cutter

rockets in the 300s to the south ..

In the 200s, yet, in 300 km. south of Seoul the sea begins.

[Tusv]

Quote: Gray Brother

In the 200s, yet, in 300 km. south of Seoul the sea begins.

That's right. Kumi County Center, exactly 200 from the center of Seoul

[Gray brother]

Quote: Tusv

That's right. Kumi County Center, exactly 200 from the center of Seoul

The northerners have one thing, 300 mm caliber. ...

This is if you don’t even remember about all sorts of tactical missile systems.

[igorj 51]

The northerners have one thing, 300 mm caliber. ...

And with a firing range of 200km. And according to some reports, even more.

This is if you don’t even remember about all sorts of tactical missile systems.

By the way ... The North Korean version of the Tochka-U OTR is even more long-range than the Russian one. In the Russian range, if my memory serves me right 90-95km, according to various sources, their range is 120-140 km ... Something like that.

[padded jacket]

Quote: Cutter

Seoul is located 25 kilometers from the border with the DPRK, it seems, but these deploy missiles in the 300s to the south ...

Apparently, in order to cover up their military bases in the South Caucasus and partially in Japan, and in Seoul with its US population, by and large do not give a damn

[igorj 51]

Apparently to cover their military bases in the South Caucasus and partially in Japan

So I just wrote about this in one of the previous branches about Korea, it seems the day before yesterday or even a little earlier, but they just raised a laugh at me .. But apparently, I was right ....

[padded jacket]

Quote: igorj 51

So I just wrote about it in one of the previous branches about Korea, it seems the day before yesterday or even a little earlier, but they just raised me to laugh.

Most likely you are really absolutely right and ironically wasted over you.

[Old26]

When will journalists learn to write correctly. An anti-aircraft missile system is the smallest unit, battery or division (for TCAAD - a battery). If the battery is thrown over, this is the way to write. The battery is 4 launchers, KP, radar. If 3 air defense systems are transported, these are 4 batteries and, accordingly, 16 launchers, 4 gearboxes, 4 radars. And here in the note, the SAM. then launchers

[Observer2014]

The United States began transporting missile defense systems to South Korea

And, this garbage can knock something?

[Ararat]

Hopefully we never know

[Observer2014]

Ararat

Hopefully we never know

Come on ! Already found out .. Last week, a Korean rocket, flying quietly over Japan, showed everything to everyone.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Observer2014

Ararat

Hopefully we never know

Come on ! Already found out .. Last week, a Korean rocket, flying quietly over Japan, showed everything to everyone.

What exactly? She flew over Japan almost in space. Do you think that its trajectory was not calculated from the very beginning?

[Observer2014]

Aaron Zawi

Do you think that its trajectory was not calculated from the very beginning?

Two ways. Or THAAD trash. Or the Americans knew that there was no nuclear warhead on the rocket. So what do you think is true?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Observer2014

Aaron Zawi

Do you think that its trajectory was not calculated from the very beginning?

Two ways. Or THAAD trash. Or the Americans knew that there was no nuclear warhead on the rocket. So what do you think is true?

Neither one nor the other. A Korky rocket flew to Japan at an altitude of 500km, and THAAD crashes when it descends on a trajectory of 150km and lower. When the Korean rocket was on this trajectory, it fell into the Pacific Ocean.

[igorj 51]

What exactly? She flew over Japan almost in space.

those. 550 km is in your opinion not space yet, but almost space ..? Presumably, according to your logic, the ISS also flies almost in space ..? Yes ... our Israeli friend said something completely wrong .. :))))

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: igorj 51

What exactly? She flew over Japan almost in space.

those. 550 km is in your opinion not space yet, but almost space ..? Presumably, according to your logic, the ISS also flies almost in space ..? Yes ... our Israeli friend said something completely wrong .. :))))

Not without it.

[igorj 51]

Not without it

Listen .. yes you with such a great scientific discovery urgently need to apply to the Nobel Committee. You look and get the Nobel Prize ... :)))))

[Ararat]

Space is also over Japan. And the troublemakers also fly over Japan, shoot them down too? If only there was a shot and a miss, then you can scream yuryayu. If you use your logic, then the S-400 and the Carapace is a complete guano because the Tomahawks did not fly over Syria.

[igorj 51]

If only there was a shot and a miss, then you can scream yuryayu.

By the way, about the shot and the miss:
http://politikus.ru/events/98618-kim-vse-taki-sde
lal-eto.html

Former U.S. Air Force lieutenant colonel, and now military expert and analyst Ralph Peters, Fox News, live on the air, told viewers why the US missile defense did not intercept the North Korean missile launched by Guam. And most of the public clearly did not believe their ears, for the Pentagon had never acknowledged its weakness and fear of making a mistake. Yes, some may object and recall that a formal pensioner was speaking all the same. But, as you know, there are no former warriors in the United States, especially when it comes to national security issues. Peters would never be allowed to reveal US military secrets. Anyway before. But back to the speaker. According to the analyst, the US military is not trying to intercept North Korean missiles, as they doubt the success of such an operation. Simply put, the Pentagon understands that the missile defense system may not “work out” 100%, and therefore does not give the corresponding order. If Kim Jong-un understands that the US Air Force can, roughly speaking, miss, he can go into all the hardships and the entire region, like the US Pacific coast, will be in great danger. Peters admitted that if Pyongyang launched a rocket precisely in Guam or one of the Japanese cities, the Americans would try to destroy it. But Hwason was sent to the open ocean, and the military saw no reason to risk it. Missile defense could not intercept a safe target, and would have untied Kim Jong-un's hands. The analyst noted that intercepting a rocket is like shooting a bullet down, and the United States does not have such sophisticated technology. The Pentagon is still not sure whether the US missile defense can intercept all Korean missiles in a critical situation, so they try not to show their weaknesses once again.

[Ararat]

An exhaustive answer. Why give the adversary extra information without much need

[igorj 51]

An exhaustive answer. Why give the adversary extra information without much need

And at the same time, to admit that all these your advertised missile defense systems are bullshit bullshit ....

[Ararat]

Bullshit is not bullshit time will show. At least we conduct exercises and test missile defense.

[igorj 51]

Bullshit is not bullshit time will show. At least we conduct exercises and test missile defense.

Doing exercises and testing on trials is one thing. And to use in a real combat situation is completely different. On August 29, you had a real chance to prove the coolness of your missile defense systems, but you successfully profiled him. now you hope that everyone will unconditionally believe in this is your miracle weapon .. :)

[Ararat]

and what should have brought down this rocket, which flew at an altitude of more than 200 km and fell outside the economy zone of Japan?

[kasatky]

If it is, but it doesn’t shoot down missiles, it means that it is needed for something else :)

[kefan]

Mattresses, as usual, found a reason and deployed a missile defense system near our border

[Old26]

Quote: Cutter

I don’t understand something, Seoul is located 25 kilometers from the border with the DPRK, it seems, and these are placing missiles in the 300's south ... In any case, there is a reason, the iron went!

And where to have it? Not in Seoul? And North Korean missiles do not stand on the demarcation line either. EMNIP somewhere kilometers in 140-150, in the region of Pyongyang. To intercept the “Moon” and “Toksa”, those air defense systems that they have are enough - “Parioot”, “Advanced Hawk” and finally the medium-range air defense system M-SAM “Cheongung”

Quote: Thunderbolt

So you had to turn your head on when they applauded in chorus and continued to the wise Eun! What do you think, against whom are these interceptors aimed, if for reference: the launch range of the intercepted ballistic missile at THAAD, up to 3500 km ...?

The interception range at the TCAAD is 200 km. And the interceptor parameters (in speed) are such that they can really intercept all existing types of operational-tactical missiles and medium-range missiles with a launch range of up to really 3500 km. That is, all Korean and Chinese medium-range

Quote: DEPARTMENT

The United States places these systems not against the DPRK, but against Russia and China!

Vitalik! Now the question always torments me. And at least the TTX of the complexes you are writing about is worth knowing, or is it not necessary? I agree with China that these complexes can be against it, although I don’t know what they can do with dozens or even hundreds of Chinese missiles. But here AND HERE RUSSIA? Does Russia have such missiles that the TAAAD can intercept?

Quote: Observer2014

The United States began transporting missile defense systems to South Korea

And, this garbage can knock something?

Is able

Quote: Observer2014

Ararat

Hopefully we never know

Come on ! Already found out .. Last week, a Korean rocket, flying quietly over Japan, showed everything to everyone.

To all or specifically to you. For example, she showed me nothing. Since it is necessary just for a change, if you write on VO nevertheless at least a little bit, just know a little materiel ??? What could intercept a rocket at such a height ????

Quote: Observer2014

Aaron Zawi

Do you think that its trajectory was not calculated from the very beginning?

Two ways. Or THAAD trash. Or the Americans knew that there was no nuclear warhead on the rocket. So what do you think is true?

They knew very well that the rocket was going nowhere. THAAD is not rubbish, but Eun, without understanding it, gave the Americans the opportunity to remove all flight parameters along the optimal path. I would replace the grandmothers in the place of the Americans for this, as a bonus. Allowed so much money to save for the Americans.

[igorj 51]

And the interceptor parameters (in speed) are such that they really can intercept all existing types of operational-tactical missiles and medium-range missiles with a launch range of up to really 3500 km. That is, all Korean and Chinese medium-range

The key phrase here can be intercepted .. Or they can NOT intercept. I specifically highlighted it .. What is the likelihood of interception of one or another type of missile ...? Not in tests, but in real combat situations. For it is one thing to shoot at a training ground at a simulator of Tsuli and quite another for a real combat target ...

And at least the TTX of the complexes you are writing about is worth knowing, or is it not necessary?

Of course, you need to know the performance characteristics, but you also need to know that people are not fighting TTX.

But WHY HERE RUSSIA? Does Russia have such missiles that the TAAAD can intercept?

Russia is not concerned with the TXAAD interceptor missiles themselves, but with the radar of this system, which is capable of tracking ALL ballistic targets at ranges of more than 1000 km. Unfortunately I do not remember the exact number; I need to look.

Is able

So far, only at the training ground.

They knew very well that the rocket was going nowhere.

if you knew in advance that the rocket was going nowhere then why all this hysteria with an alleged threat to the whole world. WHY all this circus with the inclusion of the J-ALERT system in Japan ...? WHY was it to scare the Japanese and the whole world ..? What, it was impossible to warn the Japanese about this ..? Just don’t tell me that the Americans had no connection with the Japanese ..

THAAD is not rubbish, but Eun, without understanding it, gave the Americans the opportunity to remove all flight parameters along the optimal path.

In each specific start, the parameters are different. By the way .. That rocket was not even launched at maximum range. Depends on the aiming point and on a number of factors.

I would replace the grandmothers in the place of the Americans for this, as a bonus. Allowed so much money to save for the Americans.

So what's the problem, suggest to the Americans. Eun will only thank you.

[Proton]

Well now it remains in Georgia to put a radar in the north and in e, a complete ring will be around us and they don’t give a damn about the Koreans.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Proton

Well, now it remains in Georgia to put about

Well, your fears about Georgia are quite understandable and, partly, not unfounded, BUT ... yes, actually, here is a map, and you will easily draw conclusions:

[Captain Nemo]

Will be something to miss the next North Korean missile over Japan

[Old26]

Quote: Cutter

Aaron, 25 or 40 km. for ballistic-nonsense. And North Koreans have missiles of a different class on a car chassis, so if not from the border itself, they can very close to shy. However, personally, I strongly doubt the quality and capabilities of the American missile defense system!

At least three missile belts in North Korea are known. The first, a few kilometers from the DMZ (about 5-10 km). This belt contains mainly Luna-type missiles and the North Korean version of the Point and Long-Range MLRS
The second missile belt is located approximately 140-150 km from the DMZ, in the Pyongyang region. Hvason-5/6/7 missile systems are deployed there, that is, variants of the SCADs, a certain number of Nodon launch missiles.
And finally, the third belt - in the north of the DPRK. TAs are mainly Nodon, Musudan and later complexes.
And the difference of 25 or 40 km is still significant. Especially if you are at a distance of 5-10 km from DMZ, plus 4 km of DMZ. And if a rocket has a range of 70 km - there is a difference. After all, the "dimensions" of the same Seoul are 20 x 40 km

Quote: igorj 51

By the way ... The North Korean version of the Tochka-U OTR is even more long-range than the Russian one. In the Russian range, if my memory serves me right 90-95km, according to various sources, their range is 120-140 km ... Something like that.

At the Russian point, the range is indeed about 70 km. But it has long been out of service. In service is the "Tochka-U", and it has a firing range of EMNIP 120 km.
North Korean similar missiles
KN-02 (Hwasong-08) - an exact copy of "Points-U" with a range of 120 km
KN-10 (Hwasong-11) - version of "Point-U" but already with a range of 180 km (200 possible)

[Old26]

Quote: igorj 51

The key phrase here can be intercepted .. Or they can NOT intercept. I specifically highlighted it .. What is the likelihood of interception of one or another type of missile ...? Not in tests, but in real combat situations. For it is one thing to shoot at a training ground at a simulator of Tsuli and quite another for a real combat target ...

Comrade, but do not turn on the fool, you do not suit. All missile intercepts around the world are training intercepts. The only case of interception of OTR is the first war in the bay. And Israel does not intercept in exercises. For everyone else - this is an interception in the conditions of learning. What the Americans have, what we have. Even the interception of the R-12 from Sary-Shagan in the 60s is an interception in the conditions of exercises. But for some reason, all the calculations of air defense systems are based precisely on such interceptions. For example, on Capyar, we intercepted targets, but no one knows if the S-300 will intercept the same target in a combat situation.
And we already have a trend. If our complexes intercept everything, if the American ones do not intercept anything, because they intercepted only during exercises. Well, do not think about the enemy so badly. Usually underestimating the enemy ends with a lot of blood. At one time, we were also going to fight with little blood on foreign territory, underestimating the enemy. How it ended you know. 1415 days of war and almost 30 million dead

Quote: igorj 51

Of course, you need to know the performance characteristics, but you also need to know that it is not the performance characteristics that are fighting, but people

People are fighting. But TTX weapons are the main thing. After all, give you or me a Makarov pistol and offer to hit the target at a distance of 3 km, we will never do it, even as a super sniper. So alas. TTX primary, not people

Quote: igorj 51

Russia is not concerned with the TXAAD interceptor missiles themselves, but with the radar of this system, which is capable of tracking ALL ballistic targets at ranges of more than 1000 km. Unfortunately I do not remember the exact number; I need to look.

Well, the maximum figure that I saw is 1,5 thousand kilometers. But what does it give against Russia? He can fix ballistic targets, but only Chinese ones. From the location of the radar to the border with Russia - about 700 km. The same 1,5 thousand km is to Blagoveshchensk. What can he detect and shoot down?
= Cruise missile? So the complex is not adapted for the destruction of the Kyrgyz Republic.
= Iskander? So his range is such that he does not reach South Korea. And the apogee of “Iskander” is such that it can intercept it at the lower limit.
= Medium-range missiles? So we don’t have them
= Our ICBMs? So our closest missile base at 2,5 thousand kilometers and the TSAAD is not able to intercept ICBMs from the word TOTALLY

Quote: igorj 51

So far, only at the training ground.

And besides Ihrail, no one ever intercepted in combat. Exclusively at the training ground. But at the same time, we believe that our air defense is impenetrable and will bring down everything that flies.

Quote: igorj 51

if you knew in advance that the rocket was going nowhere then why all this hysteria with an alleged threat to the whole world. WHY all this circus with the inclusion of the J-ALERT system in Japan ...? WHY was it to scare the Japanese and the whole world ..? What, it was impossible to warn the Japanese about this ..? Just don’t tell me that the Americans had no connection with the Japanese ...

The threat does exist. First of all, Japan and South Korea. Specifically, that missile did not pose a direct threat, although anything can be in the test launches. In particular, the missile could go off the trajectory and fall to Japan. Thank God that everything worked out this time.

Quote: igorj 51

In each specific start, the parameters are different. By the way .. That rocket was not even launched at maximum range. Depends on the aiming point and on a number of factors ..

Of course, the parameters are different. Prior to this, the northerners launched their missiles exclusively along a steep, high-altitude trajectory. At the same time, this is one of the flight options, but not optimal. The best one is the one she flew for the last time. And this flight gave the Americans much more than fixing all launches before.
Whether she flew to the maximum range or not, we can not judge, because we do not know what a standard warhead is and with which it flew this time

Quote: igorj 51

So what's the problem, suggest to the Americans. Eun will only thank you.

Well, if you do this - this is the best way to discredit him

[igorj 51]

Comrade, but do not turn on the fool, you do not suit. All missile intercepts around the world are training intercepts. The only case of interception of OTR is the first war in the bay. And Israel does not intercept in exercises. For everyone else - this is an interception in the conditions of learning. What the Americans have, what we have.

Dear comrade ..! I am impressed by your deep knowledge of the issue, but there is something .. For example, the same Israel intercepts mainly the Arab Kassams. And what is it..? These are essentially primitive crafts collected in a makeshift way. I hope you do not equate the current North Korean "Hwason" to the Arab "Kassam" ..? This is a completely different level. This is not even Scuda, this is a much more serious level. Yes, Israel intercepted the Iraqi Scuds during the first Gulf War, but what was the effectiveness ..? And she was so not very impressive.

For everyone else - this is an interception in the conditions of learning. What the Americans have, what we have. Even the interception of the R-12 from Sary-Shagan in the 60s is an interception in the conditions of exercises. But for some reason, all the calculations of air defense systems are based precisely on such interceptions. For example, on Capyar, we intercepted targets, but no one knows if the S-300 will intercept the same target in a combat situation.

So that's the point. But for some reason everyone is sure that ours i.e. your, Russian s-300/400 will intercept any target that is aerodynamic or ballistic, with almost 100% probability.

And we already have a trend. If our complexes intercept everything, if the American ones do not intercept anything, because they intercepted only during exercises.

That is precisely because there is such a trend. But personally, I don’t have any illusions either in relation to American systems, or in relation to ours / yours, Russian ones. only interception in a real combat situation can show real combat effectiveness. Everything else is lyrics.

Well, do not think about the enemy so badly. Usually underestimating the enemy ends with a lot of blood.

I agree completely. But I’m used to evaluate the enemy according to real hostilities. More precisely, according to his actions in a real combat situation, and not to all these high-profile statements.

Well, the maximum figure that I saw is 1,5 thousand kilometers. But what does it give against Russia?

Not yet. But who will give a guarantee that the Americans will not put anything more long-range there instead of the THAAD missile defense. even if the probability of interception, as I said, will not be very high, but it is already annoying.

And besides Ihrail, no one ever intercepted in combat. Exclusively at the training ground. But at the same time, we believe that our air defense is impenetrable and will bring down everything that flies.

I don’t know who thinks so. But I personally have reason to believe that there is no impenetrable air defense / missile defense.

The threat does exist. First of all, Japan and South Korea. Specifically, that missile did not pose a direct threat, although anything can be in the test launches. In particular, the missile could go off the trajectory and fall to Japan.

Could. By the way, emergency situations in Russia are also not uncommon when launching maces. But the Americans have serious means of detection and surveillance. If in this case the flight took place properly WHY was there a panic and frightening people ..? Well, if God forbid that something went wrong, then all space control systems will immediately detect this and then yes, turn on the ALARM ... :)))

Of course, the parameters are different. Prior to this, the northerners launched their missiles exclusively along a steep, high-altitude trajectory. At the same time, this is one of the flight options, but not optimal. The best one is the one she flew for the last time. And this flight gave the Americans much more than fixing all launches before.

And where is the guarantee that next time the North Koreans will launch a rocket along exactly the same trajectory without any changes ..? Still, do not underestimate the North Koreans. They are far from ... And then, the trajectories of all ICBMs that Russian and American are more or less the same. The Americans constantly monitor the launches and trajectories of Russian and Chinese ICBMs. Your constantly monitor launches of American and Chinese ICBMs. Everyone receives this information anyway. But what does this give the same Americans. Or do you believe that knowing this, they are guaranteed to knock down all issued Russian or Chinese or even North Korean ICBMs ..? It is unlikely..
here even a retired American lieutenant colonel spoke out on this subject. very interesting:
http://politikus.ru/events/98618-kim-vse-taki-sde
lal-eto.html
Read it. The Americans themselves are not even sure that they are not sure of the success of intercepting even the most sophisticated North Korean missiles.

[voyaka uh]

"For example, the same Israel intercepts mainly the Arab Kassams. And what is it ..? These are essentially primitive crafts assembled in a makeshift way" //////
-----------
I’ll clarify for you.
Kassams - because of their artisanalism (crookedly askew ), once again, is a difficult target for J.K.
Comp badly counts their ballistic trajectory.
The Iron Dome system best shots missiles
Grad class (122 mm). And all their derivatives: elongated, with increased
range. Missiles are manufactured in many countries. And 300 mm rockets (Tornado and the like),
but already with difficulty, to the limit. For them and above (Point-U class) developed
(but not field tested) David's Sling system.

[igorj 51]

Kassams - because of their artisanism (crookedly obliquely welded smile), just once - a difficult target for J.K.
Comp badly counts their ballistic trajectory.
The Iron Dome system best shots missiles
Grad class (122 mm). And all their derivatives: elongated, with increased
range. Missiles are manufactured in many countries. And 300 mm rockets (Tornado and the like),
but already with difficulty, to the limit

Those. if I understand you correctly your vaunted Iron Dome is effective only against MLRS missiles and even then not all ..? Which, moreover, in the line of missile weapons are far from the most high-tech products .. But if so then the question arises, was it worth it to spend such money just for the sake of such limited efficiency ..? And how much PR was there on the part of your Israeli representatives that this is almost some sort of panacea for all missile threats and so on ..

For them and above (Point-U class) developed
(but not field tested) David's Sling system.

Again, if the iron dome, in your words, is ineffective against such primitive crafts as Kassam, then the David Sling built on similar principles how can it be more effective against them ..? Further .. You wrote "for them and above (Tochka-U class)" .. But let me, Tochka-U is by far not the most advanced product from the nomenclature of missile weapons, even in its class. In addition, according to your own words, it has not yet been tested in real combat conditions. Those. it turns out that your whole missile defense system so much praised by your Israeli experts is effective only against not the most advanced Grad missiles .. And against more modern and advanced products, it already gives in ..? And again, the question is whether the “sheepskin was worth the candle”, i.e. spent money and time of such a dubious result, to say the least ..?

[voyaka uh]

1) Hizbullah Grade missiles from Lebanon and Hamas from Gaza repeatedly
fired on our cities. From disguised underground points that
hard to destroy before launch.
From here arose the defensive system Iron Dome. She checked in
combat conditions.
2) Against larger Point-class missiles (Iskander also enters there)
designed the David Sling system. Not yet tested in combat conditions.
3) 3 systems are deployed against the ballistic missile defense system: Patriot, Khets-2 and Khets-3 (analogue of TCAAD)
4) Against ICBMs — no deployed systems. Hatz-4 in development.
I tried to satisfy your curiosity as much as possible.

"But was the" game worth the candle ", that is, the money spent and the time of such a mildly speaking dubious result" ///

100% cynically speaking (according to insurance companies)
, the "price" of one citizen for the state is about 0,5-1 million dollars.
One city can kill and injure 5-15 people. 10 million dollars.

[igorj 51]

2) Against larger Point-class missiles (Iskander also enters there)
designed the David Sling system.

Are you out of your mind ...? Compare Point-U and Iskander .. Between them there is exactly the same difference as between Scud and, say, American Pershing-2 .. This is if it is exaggerated ..

3 systems are deployed against the ballistic missile defense system: Patriot, Khets-2 and Khets-3 (analogue of THAAD)

And all of them, too, presumably have not been tested in combat conditions ..?

the "price" of ONE citizen for the state is about 0,5-1 million dollars.
One city can kill and injure 5-15 people. 10 million dollars

I learn a typical Jewish approach, measure everything with money .. :)

[voyaka uh]

"Compare Point-U and Iskander .." ////
----
They are alike. BR short-range. Pure ballistic trajectory in the middle section.
Where the Sling of David is intended to work.

"And all of them, too, presumably have not been tested in combat conditions ..?" ///
----
Like the S-300, S-400 ....
Patriot actually checked. Hets-3 also recently worked successfully: it shot down the Syrian missile S-200, which accidentally flies into Israel.
----
"I recognize a typical Jewish approach, measure everything with money .. :)" ////
----
Yes. We value each of our citizens. In all senses.

[Holoy]

And if, for example, a missile defense system hits a missile with a nuclear part over Japan, then what is the difference between Japan? This is tantamount to a nuclear strike!

[jonhr]

installation brand new in the photo. just like from stock

[anjey]

About 400 residents of one of the villages of Songju County, where it is planned to place additional complexes, took to the street opposite the building of the local administration. The police tried to push the protesters away from the administrative building, however, the protesters tried to burst inside, a fight ensued

Truly, people are not ants, they understand and do not want to be hostages of militant politicians ...

[tolmachiev51]

In Syria, they got rid of the following territory of tension. That's where, truly, the evil empire !!!

[Old26]

Quote: igorj 51

Dear comrade ..! I am impressed by your deep knowledge of the issue, but there is something .. For example, the same Israel intercepts mainly the Arab Kassams. And what is it..? These are essentially primitive crafts collected in a makeshift way. I hope you do not equate the current North Korean "Hwason" to the Arab "Kassam" ..? This is a completely different level. This is not even Scuda, this is a much more serious level. Yes, Israel intercepted the Iraqi Scuds during the first Gulf War, but what was the effectiveness ..? And she was so not very impressive to say ..

You are inattentive, comrade. Did I write that the Israelis intercept everything? Yes, the bulk of the intercepted missiles are the Kassams and the Iron Dome intercepts them. But in addition to the cash registers, Hamas and HIZBALLA also have a line of missiles (mainly Iranian). And this is no longer home-made, like "Kassam", but quite serious products. What is the percentage of intercepting them - it is better to ask the comrades from Israel. For some reason, we always always have one-sided coverage of these events or their silence.

About the SCADA during the first war. Yes, their effectiveness, according to various estimates, was from 0,4 to 0,6 (that is, from 40 to 60%). Take the average - 0,5. But do not forget that the Patriot complex of 1991 and the Patriot complex of 2017 are essentially two different complexes. The one that was used at that time was not adapted at all for intercepting operational-tactical missiles and the maximum that was tested was for intercepting Lance-type missiles and their Soviet counterparts. Over the years, the complex has changed. Now his missiles are already adapted to intercept both cruise missiles and to intercept operational-tactical type SCAD, which was used in the "Husite coalition" conflict. The difficulty of intercepting such missiles (OTR) is in short flight time. And here we go to the North Korean.
What are missiles like Hwason-5/6/7. The first - is no longer available and if left - then the leftovers. But they all differ from the "classic" SCAD in two main parameters (we do not consider the starting mass and length). The difference in range and weight of the warhead.
The range can be increased in two ways - by increasing the fuel tanks (respectively, the length and starting weight) and reducing the weight of the warhead. North Koreans used both options. But increasing range has one undeniable minus. With increasing range, an error accumulates in the inertial guidance system. That’s why the “classic” Soviet SCADs had a KVO of 400 meters with a warhead weight of 1 ton, and all these North Korean-Iranian copies — sometimes up to 1 km with warheads of 400-500 kg (although the range increased to 800 km)
Other KHWASONs (and among North Koreans almost all ballistic missiles have this designation) have different ranges and, of course, are not very suitable for being intercepted by the Patriot. But there are other complexes for this - Standard (Aegis) and THAAD. There are already other speeds and other ranges, heights. But then again. Each complex is designed to intercept in certain areas. And it is impossible for a complex that is designed to intercept in the final section to require interception in the initial or middle section of the trajectory

Quote: igorj 51

So that's the point. But for some reason everyone is sure that ours i.e. your, Russian s-300/400 will intercept any target that is aerodynamic or ballistic, with almost 100% probability ..

Exactly. For the mass, this is enough. For specialists - there are some details. Yes, tests show that interception is possible. After that, an equal sign is put between possible and real. But nevertheless, the experience of local wars shows that if the other side does not use special means (electronic warfare systems), such interceptions will occur with a 100% guarantee. Alas, only practice is the criterion of truth and only military operations will show how effective a particular weapon is. In the meantime, we are forced to a priori believe that they will intercept. And on the basis of this, build the outfit of forces necessary to solve the problem.

Quote: igorj 51

That is precisely because there is such a trend. But personally, I don’t have any illusions either in relation to American systems, or in relation to ours / yours, Russian ones. only interception in a real combat situation can show real combat effectiveness. Everything else is lyrics ..

Here I agree 100%, which I wrote about a little higher

Quote: igorj 51

Not yet. But who will give a guarantee that the Americans will not put anything more long-range there instead of the THAAD missile defense. even if the probability of interception, as I said, will not be very high, but it is already annoying ..

They will deliver. Moreover, now a new version of the complex is being developed - THAAD SME. The interception range has been doubled by the EMNIP (up to 400 km), as well as the interception height (I don’t remember the numbers). Further increase is complicated by the overall dimensions of the launch and the rocket itself

Quote: igorj 51

I don’t know who thinks so. But I personally have reason to believe that there is no impenetrable air defense / missile defense. .

They are absolutely right. The "penetration" of the air defense system is achieved simply by oversaturation of the system with the number of targets. And no matter what it will be. Either real missiles, or trap missiles, or false targets (for ICBMs)

Quote: igorj 51

Could. By the way, emergency situations in Russia are also not uncommon when launching maces. But the Americans have serious means of detection and surveillance. If in this case the flight took place properly WHY was there a panic and frightening people ..? Well, if God forbid that something went wrong, then all space monitoring systems will immediately detect this and then yes turn on the ALARM ... :))).

Why scare? But this is elementary. First scare, and then offer protection. And if the people were against the deployment of certain American complexes on the territory of the country, now they will only be in favor, since this will be the only way to protect themselves from the enemy (DPRK).
Of course, you could have done as you wrote, but the effect would have been slightly different. More relaxed perception of such a flight. But the Americans do not need this.

Quote: igorj 51

And where is the guarantee that next time the North Koreans will launch a rocket along exactly the same trajectory without any changes ..? Still, do not underestimate the North Koreans. They are far from ... And then, the trajectories of all ICBMs that Russian and American are more or less the same. The Americans constantly monitor the launches and trajectories of Russian and Chinese ICBMs. Your constantly monitor launches of American and Chinese ICBMs. Everyone receives this information anyway. But what does this give the same Americans. Or do you believe that knowing this, they are guaranteed to knock down all issued Russian or Chinese or even North Korean ICBMs ..? It is unlikely...

All missiles will never hit. This requires a missile defense cost so gigantic that it will ruin any country. At the same time, such a missile defense is very easily countered. Increasing the number of warheads or false targets on an attack rocket is much easier than deploying an additional number of interceptors. For example. For guaranteed destruction of ICBMs, the enemy will need well, let a maximum of 4 interceptors. You set 3 instead of one combat unit and the number of targets for the enemy increases. These will be 3 combat units and a breeding stage, because at a certain stage they will not know what it is. For the destruction of each - 4 monoblock interceptors. So the number of interceptors to destroy one missile will be increased to 12-16. Therefore, all missile defense systems are the destruction of single targets. The DPRK now has exactly the minimum number of missiles capable of reaching the United States. Their US missile defense system can intercept. But, for example, it will not intercept a strike by PRC missiles, unless before that it inflicts a preemptive strike and destroys a large number of Chinese ICBMs. There is no point in talking about Russian missiles.

Quote: igorj 51

here even a retired American lieutenant colonel spoke out on this subject. very interesting:
http://politikus.ru/events/98618-kim-vse-taki-sde
lal-eto.html
Read it. The Americans themselves are not even sure that they are not sure of the success of intercepting even the most sophisticated North Korean missiles.

I read this article. Attitude to her? Rather, a custom article, as well as frequently appearing articles of the same kind in our country. They have two sides of the coin.
The first - "we will tear everyone like a Tuzik heating pad"
The second - "Everything is lost, we can’t do anything"

[igorj 51]

But nevertheless, the experience of local wars shows that if the other side does not use special means (electronic warfare systems), such interceptions will occur with a 100% guarantee.

Let me disagree. the same conflict between Yemen and the Saudis, where the Yemenis use the Scuds or their North Korean counterparts, shows that even without the use of electronic warfare systems by the Yemenis who simply do not have 100% Saudi interception of these missiles. Although those American Patriots and certainly not the time of the first Iraqi campaign. And please do not blame everything on the "squint" of the Arabs.

Alas, only practice is the criterion of truth and only military operations will show how effective a particular weapon is. In the meantime, we are forced to a priori believe that they will intercept.

Who argues that .. The only question is with what probability of interception ..? You, as I understand it, believe that with 100% or close to that. I’m not so sure about this.

Why scare? But this is elementary. First scare, and then offer protection. And if the people were against the deployment of certain American complexes on the territory of the country, now they will only be in favor, since this will be the only way to protect themselves from the enemy (DPRK).

Well, actually everything is as I expected. scare the Japanese and South Koreans, and then offer protection. And as a defense, naturally, my dear, well, very expensive missile defense systems. This newfangled American chip, so to speak .. And I so strongly suspect that all this current aggravation of the situation on the Korean Peninsula was caused precisely by this. to breed white and fluffy Japanese and South Koreans into grandmothers and to suck in these expensive products of their military-industrial complex. And how to do it if they don’t want to buy them voluntarily. you need to scare them, but in order to scare the needy enemy you can scare them. And who is our main enemy there in the region ..? That's right Kim .. That's something like that. And this idea was prompted by Trump's previous major contract signed with the Saudis for 100 lards, but before that he scared them the same way .. A good way to fix the US economy, which is, to put it mildly, not in the best condition. And who is the main driving force behind the US economy ..? That's right, MIC .. That's something like that. The casket just opened. And here we are scared by horror stories about the evil and terrible Kim. And we thought .. But it turns out .. :)

Of course, you could have done as you wrote, but the effect would have been slightly different. More relaxed perception of such a flight. But the Americans do not need this.

Of course not. Because otherwise the Americans simply will not be able to shake the money out of the Japanese and South Koreans .. And that is precisely the whole purpose of the Americans, to "milk" their "partners" and allies ..

All missiles will never hit. This requires a missile defense cost so gigantic that it will ruin any country. At the same time, such a missile defense is very easily countered.

Moreover. I'm not even sure that they will even knock down a single missile. But the Americans do not need this. Their task is to shake money from the allies. And then you can always say, “Sorry it didn’t work out, that we didn’t finalize it. Here we’ll finalize it later. We’ll have to pay an additional N-th amount of millions of dollars.” Something like that.

I read this article. Attitude to her? Rather, a custom article, as well as frequently appearing articles of the same kind in our country. They have two sides of the coin.
The first - "we will tear everyone like a Tuzik heating pad"
The second - "Everything is lost, we can’t do anything"

You, as I understand it, are a big fan of American missile defense systems. But on the contrary, I am skeptical of them ... And the article .. but no matter how you treat it, but this is not a fake, definitely. Hence the conclusion. With American missile defense systems, not everything is as rosy as they paint.

[voyaka uh]

"So the number of interceptors to destroy one missile will be increased to 12-16." ////
------
They increase not the number of interceptor missiles, but the number of killer vehicles on each missile.
If the ICBM carries a "bus" from a warhead, then on a missile defense the same "bus" from killer vehicles. But this has not been tested yet.

[Old26]

Quote: Holoy

And if, for example, a missile defense system hits a missile with a nuclear part over Japan, then what is the difference between Japan? This is tantamount to a nuclear strike!

Why did it happen?

Quote: jonhr

installation brand new in the photo. just like from stock

And she is from stock

[Old26]

Let me disagree. the same conflict between Yemen and the Saudis, where the Yemenis use the Scuds or their North Korean counterparts, shows that even without the use of electronic warfare systems by the Yemenis who simply do not have 100% Saudi interception of these missiles. Although those American Patriots and certainly not the time of the first Iraqi campaign. And please do not blame everything on the "squint" of the Arabs.

In one of my previous posts, I wrote that intercepting short-range missiles, in particular SCADs and "Points" and generally short-range missiles, is fraught with certain difficulties. Namely, with very little time to intercept.
What to say with interceptions. If the complexes are located "at the right time and right place," interception is likely from almost 100%. But. If the complex is located “not there” or the number of complexes is less than necessary, what happens periodically happens with the same Hussites. And not because the Hussites (Arabs) are krivoruky or anti-aircraft systems are good.
Imagine a situation where between a possible starting point and a target, well, for example, 800 km. The number of trajectories is very small. Or even one. But if there is a distance of 100-200 km between the launch point and the target, and the border between two countries (Saudi Arabia and Yemen) can stretch for 300-400 km. And to "put" the anti-aircraft complex in the right place is fraught with certain difficulties. It’s like in a situation. The "target" has hundreds of paths, and the "hunter" has only one. Moreover, the Patriot complex detects ballistic targets at a distance of 100 km. Taking into account the flight of a rocket of 1 km / s, about a minute and a half remains for interception. Much easier to intercept the one that flies from afar

Who argues that .. The only question is with what probability of interception ..? You, as I understand it, believe that with 100% or close to that. I’m not so sure about this.

The probability of interception by the same “Patriot” RAS-2 is about 0,8, that is 80%, I think it is easy to calculate that for the probability of defeat 0,998 it will take 4 missiles, for the probability of 0,9997 - 5 missiles. No one will ever give 100% probability.

Well, actually everything is as I expected. scare the Japanese and South Koreans, and then offer protection. And as a defense, naturally, my dear, well, very expensive missile defense systems. This newfangled American chip, so to speak .. And I so strongly suspect that all this current aggravation of the situation on the Korean Peninsula was caused precisely by this. to breed white and fluffy Japanese and South Koreans into grandmothers and to suck in these expensive products of their military-industrial complex. And how to do it if they don’t want to buy them voluntarily. you need to scare them, but in order to scare the needy enemy you can scare them. And who is our main enemy there in the region ..? That's right Kim .. That's something like that. And this idea was prompted by Trump's previous major contract signed with the Saudis for 100 lards, but before that he scared them the same way .. A good way to fix the US economy, which is, to put it mildly, not in the best condition. And who is the main driving force behind the US economy ..? That's right, MIC .. That's something like that. The casket just opened. And here we are scared by horror stories about the evil and terrible Kim. And we thought .. But it turns out .. :).

Well, somewhere like that. Of course they exclusively inspire their own, darling. And the prices are pretty decent. The cost of the THAAD battery is $ 2,3 billion. . A pair of batteries is already 4,5 billion. Each spare missile is still 21-23 million. Until there is a second ammunition for two batteries - another 1,5 billion ..
The Ijes-Ashor complex for Japan is another billion without a second ammunition. There is no doubt that Trump is a good businessman ... Although Kim is a bone in the throat for the USA. Now he is threatening. It will be difficult to predict what will happen in 2-3 years, when nuclear muscle will build up

By the way, not at all a silly idea ("milking"). In our old memory, we begin to divide this into those who were our allies and those who were not. And sometimes you just have to sell and “Bind” to yourself. Take, as an example, the same Saudis. They have a problem - Iran. Who seems to be trying to get closer to us now, having in mind his own interests. What prevents us from selling the very same Sauds, at least our S-300 / S-400 and "Iskander" type air defense systems. They will not harm Iran, Iran will simply be more careful in dealing with the Saudis, and the Saudis can be tied. But we immediately remember that the Saudis are enemies of Syria. Well, etc.

Moreover. I'm not even sure that they will even knock down a single missile. But the Americans do not need this. Their task is to shake money from the allies. And then you can always say, “Sorry it didn’t work out, that we didn’t finalize it. Here we’ll finalize it later. We’ll have to pay an additional N-th amount of millions of dollars.” Something like that.

No, just the single will be brought down. The entire missile defense system is designed for a single interception. I definitely can’t say right now, but our Moscow missile defense system is designed to intercept the EMNIP of 16 pair targets. And even then I’m not sure that this will happen during a "star raid" (that is, from all sides). But on the unit - just all the systems are designed. For example, even with a probability of defeat of 0,9, like that of the TSAAD, he will be able to hit well with a maximum of a dozen targets. And then - “Ales Kaput”. It is unlikely that anyone will give empty launchers and half an hour of time to recharge. Therefore, now is the best time for the United States to solve the problem with the DPRK. Even assuming war, the Koreans do not have many launchers to deliver massive strikes. And preventive (or not preventive, so as not to become an aggressor in the eyes of the whole world), most of these launchers will be knocked out. Plus about 1500-1700 missiles in the southerners. In short, the DPRK will be trampled upon. But after 3-5 years, when the Koreans will have about fifty launchers for ICBMs, this will already be problematic.

You, as I understand it, are a big fan of American missile defense systems. But on the contrary, I am skeptical of them ... And the article .. but no matter how you treat it, but this is not a fake, definitely. Hence the conclusion. With American missile defense systems, not everything is as rosy as they paint.

No. I’m just a techie with some experience in analytical work in one of the union structures. And I consider all systems from this point of view. In this case, the Americans were able to achieve significant energy in small overall dimensions. Unfortunately, their radars "see" further than ours. This is a statement of fact.
I also note that North Korea has made a very big leap in the development of rocket technology. We always show (and on the resource) mainly equipment, missiles. And sometimes there are photos more interesting. Here are two photographs that speak of a “leap” in the development of the North Korean missile program.

[igorj 51]

Well, somewhere like that.

Judging by the development of events, this is not “somewhere like that”, but just like that.

Of course they exclusively inspire their own, darling.

Of course. it would be stupid if the Americans brought in something foreign to them, for example, Russian or Chinese .. They didn’t create all these “conditions” for this ...

By the way, not at all a silly idea ("milking"). In our old memory, we begin to divide this into those who were our allies and those who were not. And sometimes you just have to sell and “Bind” to yourself. Take, as an example, the same Saudis

Of course, the thought is sound, but it will work out with saudas. Just because Saudi Arabians say this is not our "clearing". This is an American patrimony. And to buy them from Russia is simply not enough money. Plus, the Saudis have a specific mentality. They will bargain with the same success with Russia and the States. And if something with the same success will betray both of them. And anyway, I don’t understand what ........ Saudi Arabia was given to Russia ..? What is it that attracts you so much.? Just because they have a lot of money .. So such strangeness and others. The same India and China, for example. Or have you already forgotten how the Saudis financed Chechen fighters in the 90s ... are they ready to forgive everything for the sake of money ..?

No, just the single will be brought down. The entire missile defense system is designed for a single interception.

Voooot ..! And in a modern war, there are unlikely to be single launches.

Therefore, now is the best time for the United States to solve the problem with the DPRK.

But the same American generals, unlike you, do not think so. Otherwise, they would have long ago "solved the issue" with the DPRK.

Even assuming war, the Koreans do not have many launchers to deliver massive strikes.

And who knows the exact number of launching from the North Koreans ...? I beg you .. even the Americans with their satellite intelligence do not know this. And then, the northerners have enough missiles. True, most of these are relatively short-range missiles. In any case, certainly not a few or tens. Do not forget that they have been building rockets since the 70s, if not earlier than years.

And preventive (or not preventive, so as not to become an aggressor in the eyes of the whole world), most of these launchers will be knocked out.

I don’t understand this truly religious level of your faith in the effectiveness of American preventive strikes. In order to effectively knock out though not everything, but most of the launchers need to know their exact location. And do not consider the North Koreans as idiots. After that Korean war, they have been constantly preparing for war for more than 60 years. They have a huge number of underground shelters, shelters, tunnels and false targets, positions and other things .... I read somewhere that they even have the ability to maneuver through underground communications. And I'm not sure that US intelligence even knows their exact number, not like their whereabouts. so your optimism about destroying the Larger number of their missile potential I don’t share. This is despite the fact that if there is such a blow, then after it the “otvetka” from them will certainly arrive. These are non-options. And certainly in a nuclear or even thermonuclear design. And the Americans are very afraid of big losses. They simply are not used to them. So at the expense of a better time, it’s you, to say the least, got excited.

In short, the DPRK will be trampled upon.

may trample and trample. But they will take with them their neighbors and not only southerners. It is also without options. That's why the Americans are wondering if the game is worth the candle.? In addition, the Americans themselves will have losses do not worry mother ..

But after 3-5 years, when the Koreans will have about fifty launchers for ICBMs, this will already be problematic.

But in 3-5 years, it will be extremely dangerous for Americans to threaten them in general. Not like rocking on them. And if you want to, you have to negotiate with them.

I also note that North Korea has made a very big leap in the development of rocket technology. We always show (and on the resource) mainly equipment, missiles. And sometimes there are photos more interesting. Here are two photographs that speak of a “leap” in the development of the North Korean missile program.

Thank. I saw these photos in normal resolution. I’ll tell you more, the North Koreans have made a leap not only in missile and nuclear technology. They also do decent civil things to themselves. for example the same cars, computers, etc. Yes, without access to the Internet but nonetheless. And much more. In general, many of us represent this country as some kind of dense and backward, but this has not been so for a long time. Despite all these wildest sanctions, they are developing quite successfully. yes, not as fast as we would like, but nonetheless .. no one is there anymore for sure. What for a long time. Something like that.

[Old26]

Quote: voyaka uh

"So the number of interceptors to destroy one missile will be increased to 12-16." ////
------
They increase not the number of interceptor missiles, but the number of killer vehicles on each missile.
If the ICBM carries a "bus" from a warhead, then on a missile defense the same "bus" from killer vehicles. But this has not been tested yet.

So far this is only a prospect. Now while the killer apparatus is alone

igorj 51
In the previous post, the photos were very small. I tried to increase them, but the quality is alas. Therefore, I repeat just in case

[Old26]

Quote: igorj 51

Of course, the thought is sound, but it will work out with saudas. Just because Saudi Arabians say this is not our "clearing". This is an American patrimony. And to buy them from Russia is simply not enough money.

Well, is it our glade or not, but in the owl they wanted a kupist and our BMP-3 and EMNIP even the Iskanders.

Quote: igorj 51

Voooot ..! And in a modern war, there are unlikely to be single launches.

Well, by the word single, I mean the amount of 10-20, and not specifically one or two. Now, therefore, the Americans are “rushing things.” Appear in them (North Koreans) the number of missiles in the tens - they will break through the American continental missile defense or Americans will have to spend billions to increase the number of missile defense.

Quote: igorj 51

But the same American generals, unlike you, do not think so. Otherwise, they would have long ago "solved the issue" with the DPRK.

Wait and see. After all, the Americans also do not want to once again become the most banal aggressors in the eyes of the whole world, having lost their image of "defenders of democracy." And Eun sometimes seems to me to be led to provoke him to the first blow. And which of us is right, me or American generals - time will judge

Quote: igorj 51

I don’t understand this truly religious level of your faith in the effectiveness of American preventive strikes. In order to effectively knock out though not everything, but most of the launchers need to know their exact location. And do not consider the North Koreans as idiots. After that Korean war, they have been constantly preparing for war for more than 60 years. They have a huge number of underground shelters, shelters, tunnels and false targets, positions and other things .... I read somewhere that they even have the ability to maneuver through underground communications. And I'm not sure that US intelligence even knows their exact number, not like their whereabouts. so your optimism about destroying the Larger number of their missile potential I don’t share. This is despite the fact that if there is such a blow, then after it the “otvetka” from them will certainly arrive. These are non-options. And certainly in a nuclear or even thermonuclear design. And the Americans are very afraid of big losses. They simply are not used to them. So at the expense of a better time, it’s you, to say the least, got excited.

You should not ascribe to me what I did not say. As for the preemptive strike against China in order to protect itself from the counter strike of Chinese missiles - this is not my personal opinion. This is a snippet from the publication. Where it was clearly said that the current US missile defense system is not capable of stopping the PRC missile strike. America will be able to stop it if, on the eve of the conflict, it can launch a preemptive strike on the positions of strategic missiles of the PRC, knocking out a certain part of them. This is a statement of fact, not faith. They could have done the same with us if we hadn’t had such a developed system of SPS. The same thing applies to us. We can knock out the bulk of the enemy’s strike force with an exclusively preventive strike. This is faster and cheaper than then striking at each launcher (and not at RPM)
Most of the positions are known. I wrote in one of the posts about the three missile belts of the DPRK. Do not think that you can launch the same missile at a great range from any stop, from anywhere on the track. Starting points are usually equipped from a certain point of view. Equipped both in engineering terms and in terms of coordinate accuracy. Tunnels are good, but the specifics of the DPRK missiles are such that they have to pick them up to carry out targeting. And this is the time. In this regard, the Americans will not have to control the entire territory of the DPRK. Such areas are calculated, of course, not immediately, but calculated by reconnaissance, satellite and aviation methods. But this is a separate issue.
American intelligence may not know about the size of the tunnels, their branching, but is there any way out of the tunnels? And this is not just a hole in grief. This is an engineering structure. So when they created it, there were all unmasking signs. To correlate such exits with possible missile radii is a matter of time and the abilities of those who do this. But the belief that these tunnels will make the North Korean army invulnerable is the second side of the coin.
The answer from the Koreans will certainly fly. That's just what it will be in terms of power. 40 missiles in a salvo or 4? If you look at materials on North Korean missile forces, the presence of a large number of missiles with a small number of launchers is striking.
Here, for example, their current ICBM Hwason-14. At one time, the Koreans purchased 8 trucks in China, which they converted into launchers. There were no more supplies from China, and the Koreans themselves could not reproduce them yet. HERE and chase them in parades with different types of missiles, but in the same small amount. And in one parade, one, on the other - the other, on the third - the third. And together they never show

Quote: igorj 51

And who knows the exact number of launching from the North Koreans ...? I beg you .. even the Americans with their satellite intelligence do not know this. And then, the northerners have enough missiles. True, most of these are relatively short-range missiles. In any case, certainly not a few or tens. Do not forget that they have been building rockets since the 70s, if not earlier than years.

The most common misconception. Both rocket production capacities and launch production capacities are well known.

I will answer the remaining questions in the evening, run away to work

[Old26]

Quote: igorj 51

may trample and trample. But they will take with them their neighbors and not only southerners. It is also without options. That's why the Americans are wondering if the game is worth the candle.? In addition, the Americans themselves will have losses do not worry mother ..

Of course. about the losses in the continental part of America - not sure. On the islands - quite possibly

Quote: igorj 51

But in 3-5 years, it will be extremely dangerous for Americans to threaten them in general. Not like rocking on them. And if you want to, you have to negotiate with them.

Therefore, in a hurry

Quote: igorj 51

Thank. I saw these photos in normal resolution. I’ll tell you more, the North Koreans have made a leap not only in missile and nuclear technology. They also do decent civil things to themselves. for example the same cars, computers, etc. Yes, without access to the Internet but nonetheless. And much more. In general, many of us represent this country as some kind of dense and backward, but this has not been so for a long time. Despite all these wildest sanctions, they are developing quite successfully. yes, not as fast as we would like, but nonetheless .. no one is there anymore for sure. What for a long time. Something like that.

I don’t argue about the civil. And the car industry, albeit primitive and licensed - but there is. Fortunately, so far they cannot produce multi-axis launcher machines.
But this is not about that. These photos are very interesting in that on one of them is a winding machine, and on the second photo is a case obtained by winding. And this is a very big leap. We only started doing this in the 70s. They are now