Propaganda and agitation in the USSR in the era of perestroika (part of 1)

“Therefore, whoever hears these words of My word and executes them, I will liken him to a prudent man, who built his house on a stone; and it began to rain, and the rivers flooded, and the winds blew, and they rushed upon that house, and it did not fall, because it was founded on stone. And anyone who hears these words of Mine and does not fulfill them will become like a foolish man who built his house on the sand; and it began to rain, and the rivers poured out, and the winds blew, and leaned upon that house; and he fell, and there was a great fall. ”
(Matthew 7: 24 – 27)

It is impossible not to notice that usually every person looks at what is happening (or what has happened) “from his bell tower” and that he “cannot see the forest behind the trees”. There simply is not enough information to make ends meet. However, this was also very well written by J.Orwell in his novel “1984” in the part where the main character asks the old man who met him in the pub better or worse that he lived before. And he remembers the little things, but only ... does not remember and does not know. Because of this, myths are born about the “spies” who destroyed the USSR, about the Trotskyists (this is nonsense in general), who made their way to the leadership of the CPSU in the 80s (!) Years, in a word - just trying to explain the extremely difficult. Or, for example, they often talk about alleged shortcomings of propaganda in the 80s of the last century and teachers who appeared stories CPSU, "destroyed the minds of youth." Or that "the USSR collapsed because it lost the information war to the West."

What can you say? There is a grain of truth in this. But ... at the same time, one can say that such statements indicate a complete lack of understanding of the specifics of party agitation and propaganda work, because with the existing control, anti-Soviet people publicly “opened their mouths” once, for the second time simply would not have time to do so. It is possible that he was not put in prison, but after the “where it should be” conversation, he certainly wouldn't be trusted to work with the masses. Or, on the contrary, forgiven and entrusted, only the man himself would become after this ... "holier than the Pope"! So the teachers of anti-Soviet history of the CPSU and scientific communism should be forgotten forever. And even before talking about something on this topic, at least you need to familiarize yourself with the documents of the party archives in order to find out how it all happened then. And such an opportunity gives us again an appeal to the candidate and doctoral dissertations devoted to the study of issues of party propaganda.

VO readers have already noted the informativeness and usefulness of publishing selected places from V. Solovyov’s dissertation on the topic of party leadership to the evacuated population during the war years, and it will definitely be continued. But now there is an interest precisely in agitation and propaganda in the last years of Soviet power. It is interesting, but how it was carried out, is it not, and again at the level of the LOW TOWER and ON THE PLACE. Fortunately, to satisfy this interest is an opportunity. The fact is that in 2005, my daughter Svetlana Shpakovskaya defended her Ph.D. thesis at the Moscow State University on the topic: “Formation and development of public relations services in the Russian Federation in the second half of 80-90. Of the twentieth century (regional aspect) ”and here it was just in great detail how the party organizations in the Middle Volga region were engaged in propaganda, counter-propaganda and agitation“ for Soviet power and real socialism ”. Interestingly, over the past years, the value of this research has not diminished at all, and I would even say that it has only increased.

So, how did the party educate the masses of Soviet working people in the spirit of Marxism-Leninism, proletarian internationalism and rejection of bourgeois ideology from 1985 to 1990 a year? To reveal this topic, the materials of the former party archive of Penza (renamed to the Department of Funds of political organizations under the State Archive of the Penza Region - OFOPO GAPO), the former party archive of the Kuybyshev Region, renamed into the State Archive of Social and Political History (Samara Region) - GASPI were used. , and a number of other sources. That is, everything is transparent, everything is reliable and everything is verifiable!
V.Shpakovsky

As you know, the staff of the regional committee of the CPSU — the main ideological center that implements the party’s policy in the regions of the country — had propaganda and agitation departments subordinate to which were lecturers, propagandists and agitators.

Cover a pleasant "color of maximum confidence."

With their help, targeted distribution of information was carried out and, accordingly, the impact on target audiences. By 1985, considerable experience was accumulated in the field of agitation and propaganda activities, and training was organized. The main focus in working with the population was considered to be the communist education of the working people: “forming a Marxist-Leninist worldview, class self-consciousness, intransigence towards bourgeois ideology, an organic need to master modern knowledge, raising the level of moral culture, developing high moral qualities, strengthening the struggle against individualism, - undisciplined, immoral behavior ... "[1].

A total of 213 work pages A4 format. 119 archival documents have been introduced into scientific circulation, which is quite a lot for such a narrow topic.

Similar work was also carried out through the media, and ideologically prepared personnel were to carry it out. For the purpose of such training, certification of media workers of other mass media was regularly conducted, while the main task of certification was considered: “to increase political, vocational training, moral qualities of press, television and radio workers, strengthen the role of the media and propaganda in the communist education of workers, social tasks, ideological work "[2]. Those. the press, subsidized by the state, was controlled by it and should have positively reflected the results of the activities of the party and the government.

On the other hand, the reaction of the working people to one or another party action was to demonstrate how positively the working masses treat it.

So, in “Information on Organizational and Ideological Activities” for 1985, the responses of workers of the Penza Region to the visit of General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU M. S. Gorbachev were given, including the following: “With a feeling of deep interest, I took the message about the trip M. S. Gorbachev to France, - said the mechanic of the locomotive depot Penza-Sh V.M. Burov, when American imperialism intends to transfer the arms race to outer space ”[3].

A number of areas of such activity were very similar, but they had different motivations, and, most importantly, an economic basis. For example, lecture propaganda was recognized as an extremely important area of ​​work with the public. So, in 1985, the lecturing group of the CPSU regional committee of the Penza region prepared such lectures as: “Developed socialist society - a society of genuine democracy”, “Economic calculation and collective contracting - an important way to intensify animal husbandry”, “On the tasks of collectives of enterprises and organizations for further development of housing and communal services of the city of Penza ". In 1986, the lectures were read: “Labor accomplishment of workers of the region to the XXVII Party Congress”, “XXVII Congress of the CPSU and tasks of the region’s workers”, “Decisions of the XXVII Congress of the CPSU to the cause and life of each labor collective, each worker”, “On time and without loss to harvest, to create a reliable fodder base - the main tasks of the agricultural worker ”[4].

Mainly all these lectures were read on so-called Lenin Fridays. At the same time, an analysis of the archival funds of the regional committee of the CPSU of the Penza Region allows to establish that, starting with 1986, the propaganda and agitation department began to collect questions that were asked during Lenin Fridays. In 1985, data on such questions are completely absent, in 1986 they appear, but they are still few, and in 1987 their volume begins to grow sharply. The FULL NON-CONFORMITY of the topic of the lecture attracts attention with the questions asked to the speaker. Here, for example, is the topic of a lecture given in 3 August 1987 on the Zheleznodorozhny District of Penza 2: “The June Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the tasks of the working people in deepening restructuring” In addition to the main speaker, the lecture was attended by 3 speaker from the district party committee and 1 man from the CPSU city committee. But the questions that were asked at the lecture to the speaker: “What is the restructuring of the concrete goods plant at us?”; “Why are buses Nos. 4 and XNUMX bad going?”; “When will the road be asphalted to the village of Concord?”; “Will the percentage of housing for the piano factory workers be increased?”

In general, all major issues revolved around ordinary everyday problems that should have been solved ... by local Soviets, and by no means the party. They also asked, “Who is to blame for the fact that there are no cookies, gingerbread, rice and other goods on the shelves of our city?”; “On whom does poor transport work during peak hours?”; “In a bread shop on the street. K. Zetkin is a small range of bread, and they bring it late ... Will these disadvantages be eliminated? ”

However, there were also very acute social issues: “How can we explain the stagnation in our economy?”; “How many drug addicts are there in Penza?”; “Why aren’t medical education about AIDS going on?”

19 August 1988 was asked on Lenin Friday: “When will the local Soviets be the real local authority?”; “Where did the washing powder, caramel, women's toilet items go? Why are there long queues everywhere? ”,“ What is the reason for the shortage of gasoline in the city? ”,“ How will each family get a separate apartment in 2000? Is it real in Penza? ”

In Saratov, in January, 1986, in terms of activities of the propaganda and agitation department of the CPSU regional committee, was ordered to hold a single political day throughout the region on the theme “A world without wars, without weapons - the ideal of socialism ", for which to send propaganda groups to the cities and districts of the region consisting of lecturers of the regional committee of the CPSU and the regional organization of the society" Knowledge "of university professors and researchers.

The best propagandists were awarded certificates and desktop medals of the CPSU regional committee, as it was practiced in the Samara region, for example, where in 1987 only 70 people were awarded in Chapaevsk.

At the same time, it was already noted that in the state of the problem of Marxist-Leninist education in many areas a formal approach prevails. The narrow subject of lectures in youth audiences, little attention is paid to strengthening the counter-propaganda orientation of the media, and most of the youth is critical of the activities of the Komsomol [6].

For the purpose of ideological treatment of the population, special training units were created in the region, educating people passing through them in the spirit of Marxism-Leninism. So, in 1985-1986. in the Penza region there were: schools of young communists - 92; political schools - 169; basics of Marxism-Leninism - 2366; schools of scientific communism - 1279; Party and business asset schools- 31; schools ideological asset - 62; theoretical seminars - 98; methodological seminars - 30; University of Marxism-Leninism - 1. 5350 people [7] passed through all the structures.

The regional committees of the CPSU constantly monitored the activity of this system in accordance with the resolutions of the Central Committee of the CPSU, and in particular the resolution of the Central Committee "On the restructuring of the system of political and economic studies" adopted in 1988. Interestingly, among the shortcomings noted, for example, by the Samara CPSU OC, were: poor attendance, insufficient number of round tables and business games, and this despite the fact that XMLUM received a higher economic education in the UML during the previous five years. Only in the city of Syzran in 8279, more than 1987 of thousands of young men and women studied Marxist-Leninist theory and topical issues of domestic and foreign policy [4].

The figure, as we see, is quite significant, and, nevertheless, as already noted, the overall situation with youth work here was assessed as not quite satisfactory.

The propaganda and agitation department of the CPSU Regional Committee of the Penza Region was in charge of organizing visits of Penza citizens to Hungary, the Bekesh region of which was twinned with Penza. In 80-s. there was a regular exchange of work teams and specialists. In Bekeshabu, workers of health care, trade, meat processing plant, glassworks of the city of Nikolsk, pioneers on summer vacations traveled. Similarly, guests were taken from Hungary. At the same time, the department recommended the Committee on Television and Radio Broadcasting under the executive committee of the Penza Regional Council of People's Deputies to provide wide and comprehensive media coverage of friendly relations and internationalism of Penza workers [9].

It is interesting that quite often the fact of traveling abroad of Soviet citizens was viewed as a propaganda move, as evidenced, for example, by the certificate of the work of the travel abroad commission at the Kuibyshev OK CPSU Committee (1986): “It has not yet become the rule to discuss each characteristic -recommendation in party organizations, work collectives, to take into account their views on the business and moral and political qualities of the workers put forward to travel abroad. Often when considering the characteristics of the shortcomings recommended nothing is said at all, or the shortcomings are smoothed out.

The system of organizing the training of all categories traveling abroad has not yet been formed, which reduces the effectiveness of travel and propaganda work. Often, all planned training is limited to superficial instruction, many tasks are poorly worked out, they are not of a specific nature, people are not taught how to work abroad, how to borrow best practices. Many experts do not have the necessary information to carry out advocacy ... "[10]

On the other hand, the CPSU bodies provided special support to foreign correspondents who visited the regions of Russia during the perestroika years. It is interesting to note that the certificates addressed to the secretaries of the OK CPSU called the direction the newspaper and its circulation adhere to [11]. At the same time, the journalists of their own media were sent to study at the All-Union Institute of Advanced Training of the Press.

To be continued ...

Archive sources:
1. GASPI F. 656, 0.189. D. No. 10. S. 5.
2. GASPI F. 656 O. 189, D. No. 201, Protocol 23. P. 1.
3. OFOPO GAPO. F. 148, Op. 1. D. No. 6898. S. 156.
4. OFOPO GAPO. F. 148, Op. 1. D. No. 7014. S. 174.
5. GASPI. F. 656. Op. 195, D. 71, protocol 42. S. 28.
6. Ibid. Protocol 47. P.16.
7. OFOPO GAGO. F. 148, Op.1. D. No. 6902, S. 42.
8. GASPI F. 656, Op. 195, D. 81, Protocol 47. S. 16.
9. OFOPO GAPO. F. 148. On. 1. D. No. 7170. S. 100.
10. GASPI F. 656, Op. 192, D. 203. S. 10.
11. GASPI F. 656, Op. 192, D. 206. S. 1.

Comments

[parusnik]

We look forward to continuing ...

[kalibr]

It will be necessary. There is still much interesting and few have explored this period precisely from the point of view of information. Recently I was at a meeting with one deputy. So he has 62% of calls - utilities. Like in the USSR! How much time has passed, yes, spent energy, nerves. And% is the same! And the questions are the same: Where did the bus go ... why does the bus rarely go when they put things in order in the cemetery ... and pave the way there ... I got into the past.

[parusnik]

I can’t vouch for the accuracy, and who said it, but someone from the “damned past”, but the point is that the best agitation for the Soviet government is the work of the government itself to improve the life of the population ... otherwise you can talk the whole thing with beautiful slogans. .. Once again, I don’t remember the exact wording ... And in principle it happened: they "chatted" and it started somewhere from the mid-50s onwards .. and no propaganda, lectures could not help, people were worried pressing problems, as now ... And at the end of the 80s they believed the “Baltologists” .. like I look like a real communist, and the top parasites, choose me as a people's deputy ... Now the same thing ... only in a different way .. communists, the remnants of capitalism were to blame, the troublesome legacy of the tsarist regime, now the other way around ... Under the tsar, "greed, spudants and socialists" "Drag and not let go" ... Nothing changes ... and will not change ..

[EvgNik]

Quote: kalibr

a lot of interesting

The same questions that the Light cites as an example,
I am addressing you now.
Apocalypse, doomsday ...
I’m laughing like a horse, I’m all gone.

[antivirus]

did the piano factory die? - punishment for ernism over power

[vladimirZ]

In those years, he worked as an instructor, head of the industrial transport department of the CPSU district committee in one of the Siberian cities, later these departments became known as socio-economic.
Therefore, the work of the departments of propaganda and agitation took place before my eyes, and with some participation, because all party workers were involved to some extent in party propaganda work.
Unfortunately, I have to agree that for the most part mass agitation work was formal in nature, it gave out boredom and tyagomotin, did not reveal the urgent needs of the people in the field.
And after Judas Gorbachev brought Alexander Yakovlev, a 100% agent of the US influence, and possibly a direct agent of the CIA, to the post of Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee on ideology, Juda Gorbachev secretly turned directly into anti-communist work.
With the advent of A. Yakovlev to the leadership of ideology, anti-party materials poured in, allegedly first revealing anti-Stalinist repressions, "moving away from the Leninist style of work and leadership", "perestroika" attitudes to weaken the role of the party in the state, criticizing the KGB, the Army, and the collapse of the leadership of industrial enterprises (through elected leaders of enterprises and the creation of Soviets of labor collectives) and increasing their "independence", leading to the loss of industry ties, the weakening, and subsequently the destruction of the People's Control.
At the same time, essentially anti-communists, such as Korotich, were put forward to lead mass ideological publications in popular magazines and newspapers, and the Soviet people massively and gradually poured anti-communist, anti-Soviet material that almost turned the minds of people that the West was "getting better and more beautiful ", after which" everyone wanted a change, "as the then-popular singer V. Tsoi sang.
Under the leadership of Gorbachev, unrealistic, and sometimes simply bad, campaigns that break down the economy and the state rained down: Anti-alcohol, Housing-2000, Scientific and technological progress, Acceleration, Food and others, generally sounding loud and necessary, but acting spraying on the budget, and neither one of them does not bring real results.
The result of the essence of this anti-communist agitation and propaganda turned out to be sad - the collapse of the state, the ban of the CPSU, and the long hostility of part of the people to communist ideology.

[creak]

Quote: vladimirZ

With the arrival of A. Yakovlev to the leadership of ideology, anti-party materials poured in, allegedly revealing first anti-Stalinist repressions,

But why didn’t you oppose this anti-Soviet course? Like all your colleagues, you applauded at the plenums and continued to implement the instructions of the "Leninist Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU" consisting of Gorbachev, Yakovlev and Co., whom you are now anathematizing? They wouldn’t have shot - the times were already vegetarian. Or did insight come only now?
Everything is simpler - they could have driven away from a warm place in the regional committee and would have had to replenish the ranks of the working class - and there you have to work with your hands, not your tongue and there are no usual nomenclature benefits ...
So it's not for you to stigmatize others - you are no better - as they say - whose cow would mumble ...

[vladimirZ]

But why didn’t you oppose this anti-Soviet course? Like all your colleagues, you applauded at the plenums and continued to implement the instructions of the "Leninist Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU" consisting of Gorbachev, Yakovlev and Co., - ranger

Somewhere since 1986, the party organs began to give rise to a misunderstanding of the actions of the Gorbachev leadership in the party and the state, but this discussion was first conducted in behind-the-scenes, friendly conversations, without proper presentation to the wide circle of the public.
A wide discussion in society and in the party of these moods began in March 1988 with an article in the newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya by a social science teacher at a university in Leningrad, Nina Andreeva, “I Can't Give Up Principles”.
The article was discussed at all levels of the party, from meetings in primary party organizations, to the Politburo. The result of the discussion and discussion in the party was summed up by the Secretary of the ideology of the Central Committee of the CPSU, who is also an agent of US influence A. Yakovlev, calling it the "manifesto of anti-perestroika forces."
The entire party ideological leadership of the CPSU, led by Gorbachev and Yakovlev, came down from the pages of the media to those who doubted the correctness of the course of "perestroika," showered with "ideological" materials justifying its necessity.
No one at that time could have imagined that traitors were at the helm of the party and the state, we thought that these were the mistakes of the leadership, although by 1987 there were no more fingers to consider these "mistakes".
The final outcome of the confrontation between supporters and opponents of "perestroika" was summed up by the 19th Party Conference of the CPSU in June 1988, when the question arose of mistrust to Gorbachev and his replacement as General Secretary because of his wrong political course. The congress delegates, under pressure from the treacherous leadership, cowardly acknowledged "There is no alternative to Gorbachev."
I heard this from the delegate of the 19th party conference from our city organization A.S. Berseneva. To my question "Why didn’t Gorbachev be removed?" He replied: "The conference considered Gorbachev no alternative." And this happened at a time when everything was starting to fall apart, separatism was growing on the outskirts, the economy began to malfunction from inept leadership - and it became clear to all who reasoned that the state was going to collapse. No one just thought that this would happen in the next year and a half.
What is the conclusion from those events I made:
- it is impossible to consider anyone irreplaceable, no matter how many seven span of mind he is, an alternative and a timely change should be to any leader;
- you can’t be silent if you think that this or that leader of a party or state is conducting a wrong, anti-people’s policy, no matter who you are, at least a simple teacher.
Unfortunately, our people, their active part, did not draw from the bitter lesson of the collapse of the USSR the conclusions that I wrote about, about which the leaders of Russia have been talking for more than a decade and a half and have continued to pour in: "There is no alternative to Putin." After this, grief for the joyless future fate of our state, and our majority of people who are foolish, covers.

[brn521]

Quote: vladimirZ

A wide discussion in society and in the party of these moods began in March 1988 with an article in the newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya by a social science teacher at a university in Leningrad, Nina Andreeva, “I Can't Give Up Principles”.

It is a very typical situation. There is a tip with your interests. There are lower classes who are ideologically powdering their brains for the sole purpose of doing what they are ordered to do. Among the lower classes were comrades who really penetrated this propaganda, so the change of course turned out to be somewhat painful for them. But the result was only the indicated article, and a little noise at the meetings. Another thing, the General Staff, for example. If he had declared something like that, and the perestroika would have laid many bricks. But the situation in life is such that the higher you up the career ladder, the worse the noodles stick on your ears. And the quality of communist noodles is such that it was intended primarily for illiterate peasants and workers, but not for generals. I’m not talking about the KGB at all.

Quote: vladimirZ

- it is impossible to consider anyone irreplaceable, no matter how many seven span of mind he is, an alternative and a timely change should be to any leader;

Forced to challenge the findings. Where will this alternative come from? Fall from the sky? In the case of leadership, it should be a leader and a strong support team, on which he can rely. So that you can pick up from it, for example, your own security forces, ministers, etc. And why on earth would such a leader, having made his way to the very top, even if in a revolutionary way, take care of ordinary people? Rather, he will begin to take care of himself and his own. And this is logical, because everything rests on them. And if the support group is largely inherited from the previous leader, has gained strength and can dictate terms, then all the more this whole thing will ultimately end in perestroika. So that the aforementioned group improves its position, albeit at the expense of the country as a whole.

Quote: vladimirZ

- you can’t be silent if you think that this or that leader of a party or state is conducting a wrong, anti-people’s policy, no matter who you are, at least a simple teacher.

What are ordinary people capable of without any organization at the head? Arrange spontaneous demonstrations, burn cars and beat shop windows. A leader, let alone an organization capable of becoming their leader, will never appear. After all, this is one of the main tasks that the power-holders set themselves - the fight against such a phenomenon, i.e. with the advent of the real, not puppet opposition.

Quote: vladimirZ

continuing calls: "There is no alternative to Putin"

And they are telling the truth. Putin and those who stand behind him will not allow such an alternative to appear. For example, I recently discovered that it appears that there were some comrades who organized a group on the Internet that advocated restricting the rights of the current government and introducing liability, including criminal liability, based on the results of its work. They were caught and received heavy sentences for extremism. Maybe another fake, maybe it really was. But it looks realistic - the authorities are afraid of responsibility to stupidity. And then there’s a popular idea that has considerable support among the people. So nothing like this will appear, of which I am sure. Even if they manage to gain strength, they will immediately be doused with slops. And lured hamsters with powdered brains rush to kick their corpses because they "worked for the USA and were going to arrange the Maidan, and indeed they were some kind of complete pedophiles maniacs." And there is no escape from this, except for the media there are no sources of information. Only special organized groups can afford adequate collection and analysis of information peeled from the husk. But we don’t learn anything about such groups, because their lot is underground. Remember the history of VKPb, or something. To create and push the people’s party to power now is the same as imposing the 2nd communist ideas on Nicholas. But there are fewer opportunities for the underground - control is now much more serious than in the 1910s. And it is getting tougher, even to the detriment of the economy.

[verner1967]

Quote: vladimirZ

With the advent of A. Yakovlev to the leadership of ideology

Grains of anti-communism abandoned by Yakovlev fell on already fertilized soil, because

Quote: vladimirZ

hostility of a part of the people to communist ideology

(and, a huge part) was already there, only no one expressed it openly.

[avva2012]

The machine worked for itself at idle. There was no propaganda and agitation, even in the least. The one who was not capable of anything at that time went to propagandists. Hence the result.

[Serg65]

Quote: avva2012

The one who was not capable of anything at that time went to propagandists

I do not agree with you a little! The propagandists were mainly careerists, and this is the sure road to those in power.

[avva2012]

Well, if, this is work, then I take my words back

[kalibr]

Doctor, how can you write like that? You personally wrote to me that I have “wonderful articles” (I don’t remember why, but you wrote like that). And what do you think, if a person writes well, he should be interesting to tell, right? Or so: Uh ... we, we are here ... uh ... to talk about the role of the CPSU in ... uh ... We had 12 people at the department and all had excellent lecturers, except for one - he was a stutter. And before the person to be let out "to the people" the instructor of the Republic of Kazakhstan or the Communist Party OK Party had a conversation with him, he went to lecturer courses. Lecturers from the working environment - with those, yes, it was difficult, they were also engaged. They prepared a lecture and read it publicly. That is, with all the formalism - yes, it was enough - people were not particularly allowed mediocrity. They asked the lecturers: "We would ... Ivanova!" And at the factory, the propagandists were of their own and all sorts, of course. But from their own - that’s what’s important + top-level propagandists. How much more? And when to work, if you listen to them all?

[avva2012]

Vyacheslav Olegovich, look more broadly at the problem. The point, after all, is not only in you. The country fell apart, the ideology of the future, which worked perfectly and was supposed to win the confrontation with capitalism, turned into beautiful posters and parades. The fact that you know how to write and speak perfectly, the fact that others who were responsible for propaganda and agitation knew how to do this no worse, only makes the situation even sadder.

[kalibr]

I have one answer: "the car was originally designed poorly." She did not take into account that people are people, not saints. They wanted not only in the future, but now, not only communism ... but also a ZIM refrigerator, and now. And they saw that under the Constitution everyone is equal, and in real life, "some are more equal." Well, that’s how it started!

[avva2012]

Is the “chicken coop law," to which the capitalist system is subordinated, the highest development of society? Yes, to the fullness, this squalor, if it triumphs without an alternative, everywhere on our ball, it will simply destroy the planet. Communism is the only way out for human society. It all started with primitive communism, and the development of mankind will continue on a new branch, already developed. There is no other way in development. The rest, only degradation extended over time: capitalism-neo-feudalism-neo-slave system.

[Mikado]

Is the "chicken coop law" to which the capitalist system is subordinated, is this the highest development of society?

no one says that capitalism is the highest degree of development of society. Doctor, hello, very happy! Just people do not change. Everyone wants to live, and live with dignity. Only a few idealistic dreamers who have nothing else in life can overcome difficulties and burn out at the age of 30, like Pavka Korchagin. Ensuring the harmonious development of the economy, culture, production and consumption is the task of the future. Is it feasible, God knows ...

[avva2012]

Good afternoon, Nikolai! You described a communist society, however)). And, man, yes, we must educate. The man who went to the last battle, "consider me a communist," was he an idealist? He managed to fight, and saw the death of his comrades, "communists, forward," but still, he said these words. So education is possible?

[Mikado]

He managed to fight, and saw the death of his comrades, "communists, forward," but still, he said these words. So education is possible?

everything is possible. The question is very complicated. But the society that was during the war is not a society of the 70-80s.

[avva2012]

Nikolay, that's for sure! The ideology is the same, but the result is different. Therefore, the article by Vyacheslav Olegovich naturally will not give an answer (or rather, his idea is clear who is to blame), but it may make you think what to do?

[Mikado]

I think that from any good article, even partial conclusions can be drawn. Facts and experiences for the future Alexander, there will be time - re-read yesterday’s article. Sorry, you were not there yesterday

[avva2012]

Yesterday, it's about the "yellow leaves ...."))). If, you mean it, then laughed at the comments, as before on the miniatures of Zhvanetsky))).

[Curious]

"I have one answer:" the car was originally designed poorly. "
This is the same as looking at the game of some national teams, to conclude that football is a boring, unexpressive game for bent-legged, dumb-headed, snickering disabled people.

[Mikado]

that football is a boring, unexpressive game for bent-legged, dumb-headed, snickering disabled people.

I will support. disabled millionaires.

[antivirus]

everything is easier
by the beginning of the 80s 2 \ 3 of the population moved to cities (became citizens) ----- there is a quantity. and quality leap. the transition to the other floor of the development of society did not happen.
propaganda drove forward, but it was necessary to live in peace.
the mentality of the former village in the cities did not change all their lives (for example, a guy arrived in 64 g) + 40 years to death --- he is a village
% of "citizens" with other mentality slowly increased, with other habits coordinating their actions with others.
in my opinion, the Russian Federation will come to victory "% of" citizens "with a mentality" slowly increased by 2025 - DAM's exit (conditionally his example for a benchmark) for retirement. if Kudrin raises the pension age - later (by 2030)

[kalibr]

You are absolutely right. This is true in a different context, Lenin wrote.

[Amurets]

Quote: kalibr

And before the person to be let out "to the people" the instructor of the Republic of Kazakhstan or the Communist Party OK Party had a conversation with him, he went to lecturer courses.

And then people laughed: Spring has passed, summer has come, thanks to the party for that. "Because one thing was said in the lectures, and the people lived completely different. Therefore, the questions were asked purely everyday.

19 August 1988 was asked on Lenin Friday: “When will the local Soviets be the real local authority?”; “Where did the washing powder, caramel, women's toilet items go? Why are there long queues everywhere? ”,“ What is the reason for the shortage of gasoline in the city? ”,“ How will each family get a separate apartment in 2000? Is it real in Penza? ”

Interestingly, the very fact that Soviet citizens went abroad was seen as a propaganda move,

Exactly. Our colleague bought a England-Finland tourist cruise ticket and I still don’t remember somewhere, and it doesn’t matter. So it was inflated so that it was as if he had given him a part-time party for free, and the man paid for it hard-earned money, something around 1500 rubles, at that time quite a lot of money. Our salary was about 300 rubles. So then he was still forced to talk about rotting capitalism. It was already under Gorbachev. The second half of the 80s of the twentieth century.

[verner1967]

Quote: avva2012

who was not capable of anything at that time, went to propagandists.

and the people called them prop (product number 2) And now these are deputies of different levels, they say a lot, but there’s no sense.

[Moore]

A very serious topic, perhaps in the comments along with those who want to collect points for the drivers, thinking people will appear.

The main direction in working with the population was considered to be the communist education of workers: “the formation of a Marxist-Leninist worldview, class self-consciousness, intransigence towards bourgeois ideology, an organic need for mastering modern knowledge, raising the level of moral culture, developing high moral qualities, intensifying the fight against manifestations of individualism, - indiscipline, immoral behavior ... "

The goals are clear. Formulated before the war. The question is how. This huge, autocratic ideological machine sparkled, puffed, some wheels and gears were spinning - at the output, the “consumers” of the ideological product observed a flagrant mismatch between the declared and objectively existing one. These same "ideologists" refused to give an explanation to this. The situation has changed since the late 40s, gentlemen, comrades. Stalin also said:
In order for the parties to lead the masses of millions, the right line is not enough for this - for this it is also necessary for the masses to make sure on their own experience of the correctness of this line, for the masses to perceive the party’s policy and its slogans as their own policy and their own slogans, and began to implement them.
And what did these same “multimillion masses” see? Suslov's ossified slogans, idle calls and this cherry on the cake:

The best propagandists were awarded diplomas and table medals of the regional committee of the CPSU, as, for example, was practiced in the Samara region, where in 1987 70 people were awarded with only one city of Chapaevsk

What were they awarded for? Where was the criterion for their success? In the army at the regimental level then there was a position of "propagandist" - a major category (in addition to him there were also released party committee secretary and secretary of the Komsomol committee). What this officer was doing, no one clearly imagined. I remember collecting lists - who was rebuilt from officers, and who was still in stagnation. Lists were then submitted to higher authorities. I think the "citizen" was about the same. The reports were all carefully written, carefully stitched and even kept for about five years. The car was working. I’m idling.

On the whole, all the basic questions revolved around the ordinary everyday problems that the local Soviets had to solve, and not the party at all.

What are you saying? What about guiding and guiding forces? And what about the party responsibility of the performers for the assigned work?
I am returning to the army again. In the year 88th, the division political officer arrived at our party meeting. Part communists cut the "truth-womb" about increasing combat readiness, about not reporting meat in the dining room, about the work of the people's control (he really worked for us!).
Such an imposing colonel came to the podium and paternally scolded us for engaging in non-partisan affairs - this is not the business of the Communists. The cause of the Communists is internal party problems and this same ideology. The meeting ended by itself. I believe this little idea, launched from above and designed to dissociate the party from real affairs, is absolutely sabotage - well, in terms of those temporary realities. The party was invited to flood with nightingale at rallies (it is recalled: "Stirlitz, leave this for our party rallies!"), And completely forget about the party responsibility of leaders, performers, etc. From that moment, the days of the party were numbered.

[avva2012]

In my opinion, the “propaganda” of those years was a diversion. Well, it would be better to be silent. Against the background of the fact that it was pouring from the West, where they treated propaganda with understanding and at the established institutes paid employees for the business, and not for the publication of wall newspapers, we all remained at the level of "soar and develop." The leadership at the very top should have understood that the decaying West, we are losing in this regard in the net. M.A. Suslov, who led the propaganda for many years, is a very interesting figure for a serious investigation. Somehow it was customary to blame Gorbachev for the collapse of the USSR, but the fact that the communist ideology ceased to be a guide for the people, and ideologists among the masses became such as the author of the article, a huge "merit" of Mikhail Andreevich with the team. An organism cannot live without a heart, and a state without an ideology connecting people.

[Moore]

Quote: avva2012

but the fact that communist ideology has ceased to be a guide for the people, and ideologists among the masses have become such as the author of the article, a huge "merit" of Mikhail Andreevich with the team.

I agree. Suslov served as the backdrop in which any rubbish perched on a barrel and cutting the truth of the uterus could be considered the messiah. Well, I don’t want to talk about Yakovlev in a decent society from the word “completely”.

[avva2012]

But, after all, that one about whom in a decent society they do not speak, made his way to the very top, after all, someone supported him, put forward. I don’t think that nobody knew about Yakovlev’s views (I also have Stirlitz). They do not choose their person in the team according to the questionnaire and official speeches at the plenum of the Komsomol, but in a heartfelt conversation over a glass of tea, in a bathhouse, on vacation. I wish I could trace the whole thread, and then see who, where, got it after the Union collapsed. As they say, check horizontal and vertical connections.

[Serg65]

Quote: Moore

in addition to him there were also released the secretary of the party committee and the secretary of the Komsomol committee

The Kiev VVMPU supplied the Zampolitov to the fleet, and from there at the dawn of Perestroika a young lieutenant came to us as an assistant to the Komsomol . Young, hot ideas about Acceleration and Perestroika poured from him, like from a cornucopia! They got to the point that the political commander (a good man by the way, which is already a rarity among his colleagues) dragged Shurik to the tiller, tapped on the turnip and told him not to stir up the fragile sailors

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Serg65

Young, hot ideas about Acceleration and Perestroika poured from him, like from a cornucopia! They got to the point that the political commander (a good man by the way, which is already a rarity among his colleagues) dragged Shurik to the tiller, tapped on the turnip and told him not to stir up the fragile sailors

Vo-in ... first adjustment, acceleration and glasnost, and then worms in meat! и officers overboard!

[Serg65]

Welcome buddy

Quote: Alexey RA

and then the worms in the meat! and officers overboard

Well, yes, some stood overboard! Well, many of their sailors on their own money, issued once every five years, fed! Although you know, in those days raising the sailors to a riot was like two fingers on the asphalt! But the Black Sea Fleet did not receive a new Matyushenko

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Serg65

Although you know, in those days raising the sailors to a riot was like two fingers on the asphalt! But the Black Sea Fleet did not receive a new Matyushenko

But he received SKR-112.

[brn521]

Quote: Moore

Very serious topic

For the topic to be serious, you need not to keep it in a vacuum, but to place it in a certain space. Compare with propaganda in the USA in different historical periods. Propaganda of RI, Germany, etc. Again, the Middle Ages with its institute of propaganda and the institution of punishments laid in the foundation of statehood. Nothing has changed since then.

Quote: Moore

From that moment, the days of the party were numbered.

On the contrary, the affairs of the party went uphill and reached their zenith in the 90s. This refers to the personal interests of the established caste, and not to the goals that this caste should theoretically advance. It is quite common. As soon as managers and distributors appear, corruption also appears.

Quote: Moore

The cause of the Communists is internal party problems and this same ideology.

He said that correctly. Only in a bloody intra-party struggle could characters appear whose interests would go beyond personal prosperity. Stalin is an example of this. But such a mechanism has a very serious drawback - the despot who has appeared has crushed everyone, especially potential competitors. As a result, the potential successor will also be crushed. Only fittens will remain, forced to work in a team and dreaming of freedom. But the communist ideology did not work out another mechanism. Only class struggle and revolution.

[Moore]

Quote: brn521

Again, the Middle Ages with its institute of propaganda and the institution of punishments laid in the foundation of statehood. Nothing has changed since then ..

The statement is unfounded. Production relations are changing (basis), ideology (superstructure) is changing too. Accordingly, the methods (propaganda).

Quote: brn521

On the contrary, the affairs of the party went uphill and reached their zenith in the 90s. This refers to the personal interests of the established caste, and not to the goals that this caste should theoretically advance.

Here we do not replace the concept. Who is the caste? Whole party? All its members dramatically improved their well-being? Not at all.
The point is that those holding power desperately needed to free themselves from the last collective body of control - the party. Which was done.

Quote: brn521

He said that correctly. Only in a bloody intra-party struggle could characters appear whose interests would go beyond personal prosperity.

What characters appeared as a result of the removal of the party from the leading and guiding role?
Well, let’s not forget that, while engaged in a party brawl, the Bolsheviks did not lose control of the situation. As for the “despot” that appears as a result of the intraspecific struggle, well, at least some kind of evolution instead of blunt inheritance. Including these days and not only with us - the United States is no worse example.

[brn521]

Quote: Moore

The statement is unfounded. Production relations are changing (basis), ideology (superstructure) is changing too. Accordingly, the methods (propaganda).

Nothing like this. Production and production relations are no basis. For their existence, a certain ideology is already needed. You need to know something, to believe in something and to hope for something. Otherwise, there will be no talk of any kind of production.
Methods of propaganda, too, basically have not changed. Take the same upbringing that begins already from birth. Transfer of knowledge, ideas. Those. the formation of ideology. The system of control and punishment is generally a fundamental principle. The same religious teachings, only the objects of faith have changed.

Quote: Moore

Here we do not replace the concept. Who is the caste? Whole party? All its members dramatically improved their well-being? Not at all.

I do not argue. But the fact remains. In order to most successfully build communism in a single apartment, one had to be a member of the party and break through to leading positions. Take the Cotton business. The real development of the ruling elite in a single Uzbekistan. This in the end turned out to be not the exception, but the norm.

Quote: Moore

The point is that those holding power desperately needed to free themselves from the last collective body of control - the party.

Rather, change the ideology and state system in order to feel in complete safety. In the old system, they were still formally criminals.

Quote: Moore

What characters appeared as a result of the removal of the party from the leading and guiding role?

And the detachment from the leading role here is what side? It's about internal party struggle. If the struggle reaches a certain intensity, then only comrades who think and act on a large scale will remain among the candidates for power. However, this is probably not enough. Generations have changed. The old revolutionaries became extinct, a generation has come to replace the one who values ​​silence and comfort and does not believe in well-worn ideals. As a result, we get the period that the new state formation in the person of the USSR could last - one generation. After that, the party cones were so full of food that they dragged the USSR into pieces into personal possession.

Quote: Moore

As for the “despot” that appears as a result of the intraspecific struggle, well, at least some kind of evolution instead of blunt inheritance.

Dumb inheritance is actually a good result in itself. Do not increase, at least save. Unless, of course, we are not going to build another state one-day, which will stretch from the strength of 300 years.

[avva2012]

And anyone on top will be required to be a despot. The same Roosevelt for four terms. Or, was he a slobber, a puppet in someone else's hands? Again about the Masons will it? The other one had such a despot that they couldn’t remove him anyway. Kennedy was called by name.

[brn521]

Quote: avva2012

And anyone on top will be required to be a despot.

Well, and where did his normal successors come from, ready to fight for power?

Quote: avva2012

Again about the Masons will it?

If the freemasons really existed for 2000 years, then drag them here. We will try out the secret of a just and sustainable society from them. Although, probably the same pyramid, nothing new.

[verner1967]

Quote: Moore

On the whole, all the basic questions revolved around the ordinary everyday problems that the local Soviets had to solve, and not the party at all.
What are you saying? What about guiding and guiding forces? And what about the party responsibility of the performers for the assigned work?

That is, there are few performers alone, there are still controllers over them with their own control ... but are there many parasites on the neck of the working people?

[Amurets]

In general, all major issues revolved around ordinary everyday problems that should have been solved ... by local Soviets, and by no means the party. They also asked, “Who is to blame for the fact that there are no cookies, gingerbread, rice and other goods on the shelves of our city?”; “On whom does poor transport work during peak hours?”; “In a bread shop on the street. K. Zetkin is a small range of bread, and they bring it late ... Will these disadvantages be eliminated? ”

So the answer to this question is very simple. 6 article of the Constitution of the USSR of 7.10. 1977
Article 6. The Communist Party of the Soviet Union is the guiding and guiding force of Soviet society, the core of its political system, state and public organizations. The CPSU exists for the people and serves the people.
Armed with Marxist-Leninist teachings, the Communist Party determines the general outlook for the development of society, the line of internal and foreign policy of the USSR, directs the great creative activity of the Soviet people, and gives a systematic, scientifically substantiated character to its struggle for the victory of communism.
All party organizations operate within the framework of the Constitution of the USSR.
And the point here is not ideology, but the fact that according to this article, not answering for anything, representatives of party organizations could interfere in the economic activities of enterprises and their intervention was not always beneficial. There is much to discuss on this subject, because this article was the most criticized.

[Serg65]

An article about propaganda, and what was the propaganda in the second half of the 80's? And she was two-faced! The front side of the propaganda, which the author describes, was for reporting and reassuring party officials, while the actual one worked to destroy the same party and state.

“With a feeling of deep interest, I took the message about the trip of M. S. Gorbachev to France,” said V.M. Penza-Sh locomotive depot locksmith Burov - when American imperialism intends to transfer the arms race to outer space ”

Is it an interesting locksmith? He receives vouchers for vodka, matches, a car wash and sugar, but at the same time he is DEEPLY INTERESTED in Gorbachev’s trip to France
In 85, the party said "death to alcohol!", But forgot that any action causes opposition and the dawn of self-brewing, drug addiction and substance abuse began ( purely Soviet invention). In the same year, the party headed for "Acceleration", but how to accelerate, where to accelerate about it, no gu, well, they began to accelerate! We accelerated to the point that technological disasters rained down one after another! In 87, the party announced Perestroika! Oh, how everyone was happy, here you and KTU, and cooperatives, and Socialism with a human face (before 87, we probably had Socialism with an animal grin)! What was rebuilt? There was a relative deficit, became global! Cooperators bred like mushrooms, while production cooperatives had a gulkin nose! A co-operator with a chubby wallet went to the store director (the manager is even better), bought all the sugar with the director’s interest, carried it to his stalls and go! In the store there is no sugar, but in the stall at a double price you eat at least the fifth point !!!!
Such propaganda and agitation was at the sunset of the USSR!

[kalibr]

How well you described our 80s. You need to write articles, you have talent!

[Serg65]

Quote: kalibr

You need to write articles, you have talent!

Well, like this! At the school, the Komsomol leader of the company was trained in reports, summaries and reviews !!!

[Mikado]

so why are you sitting? Write! Sure! We honor with pleasure

[Serg65]

Quote: Mikado

We honor with pleasure

Yes, for God's sake, read on health, I will only be glad. Look in my profile

[Mikado]

stunned .. read about OpEsk - generally super! Such photos! thank! but the rest - re-read. And you continue to write!

[Serg65]

Quote: Mikado

You write further!

Thank you, I'm trying ..

[antivirus]

were there 85m coupons for these goods?

[kalibr]

I have a whole bunch of coupons of that time in my special folder, although not exactly 85 g. Somehow, it will be necessary to make material on the coupon system in the USSR. But this is dragging oneself into the archives of the OK CPSU, the regional ... smelling fragrant grandmothers, who are piling over their kindred ones there. I'm afraid it won’t pay off ...

[kalibr]

Quote: avva2012

The leadership at the very top should have understood that the decaying West, we are losing in this regard in the net. M.A. Suslov, who led the propaganda for many years, is a very interesting figure for a serious investigation. Once it was customary to blame Gorbachev for the collapse of the USSR, but the fact that the communist ideology ceased to be a guide for the people, and ideologists among the masses became such as the author of the article, a huge "merit" of Mikhail Andreevich with the team.

Sometimes, doctor, you write normal things, like this now. That’s why I don’t put an end to communicating with you. You write: MUST BE UNDERSTANDED. And I agree with you. So why didn’t they understand their anhydride peroxide? However, I just know the answer and somehow write about it. But I'm interested in your opinion.

[avva2012]

Sometimes, yes, apparently, I write! Oh, Vyacheslav Olegovich, trouble is with you. Now you are openly rude, sometimes patronizing, lordly, so you pat on the shoulder with a pen, in such expressions as now. And your position is clear, and mine, to me, is still not very. Maybe because you are a talented person, but it was always interesting for me to communicate with such people? And maybe for some other reason. Anyway. I understand the question and am also interested in, I guess, I am your answer or not. And, at the expense of my opinion, it seems to me that the reason is that when the Stalinist constitution (the most democratic of all times and peoples, which was recognized in the West) was adopted, at the same time, the idea of ​​I.V. Stalin on alternative elections. If I am not mistaken, they should have taken place in 1937 year. Instead, "repression." The purge of the power apparatus in itself is a useful and necessary thing if, after purification, they could, again, return to democratic elections. Perhaps this would happen. But. War. And then the restoration of industry, the Cold War and the disease of I.V. Stalin. Thus, the case was not completed. The system began to boil in itself (there were no executions of the party apparatchiks, there were no elections) and, as a result, opportunists, careerists, and sometimes hidden enemies of the Soviet regime, climbed to the very top. Having gained a foothold at a certain level, they pulled up "their own", survived "strangers." Of these, the most talented climbed on. The result, by the middle of the 70's, and even earlier, a nutrient substrate was formed, which in the 1985 year would give a team of degenerates led by Gorbachev. I foresee statements about the inconsistency of the communist system. Lies, the system is quite viable, but it is also subject to the basic laws of nature. Without self-purification, any system begins to kill itself. The same thing happens with capitalism, it’s just that this system is bigger and it solves its problems (crises of overproduction, financial, redistribution of sales markets) through wars and the seizure of new territories. In this regard, there is enough space for spiders. How long?

[kalibr]

Thank you, doctor, for such an interesting answer. In some ways, I agree in some ways, but this is your opinion and why shouldn’t it be, right? I also have “these songs,” but from a different bell tower. The fact is that my supervisor in postgraduate studies was in the past the assistant to Suslov. And I know something from him. Quite a bit. But interesting. Somehow in the near future I will write about it. For me, 2017 is a memoir. There is something to remember and to tell about. I promise ...

[avva2012]

Wow! Considering that he, like another person named Andropov, had the same disease, which was poorly treated for a long time, and caused serious complications, including to the brain, the view from the outside will be very interesting. There is a suspicion that the Grand Inquisitor was not called that in history. Because, if we take as a basis all that liberals attribute to JV Stalin, they simply must be with them as a complication of type 1 diabetes.

[kalibr]

I’ll write it for sure. It is interesting!

[voyaka uh]

"The system began to boil in itself (there are no executions of the party apparatchiks, there are no elections)
and, as a result, opportunists, careerists began to crawl to the very top, "////
-----
"Thank you, doctor, for such an interesting answer" ////
-----
The answer is drop dead (a monument must be put up for it!) - without the shootings the development of socialism is impossible.
The quintessence of socialism.
Therefore, the Communists must beware of the plague.

[brn521]

Quote: avva2012

The purge of the power apparatus in itself is a useful and necessary thing if, after purification, they could, again, return to democratic elections.

Will the sheep really feel better if they begin to choose a shepherd? As for me, you must first pass an exam on the knowledge of a shepherd’s business in order to get admission as a voter. Then there will be a chance that this system will work. But only here is the problem, a textbook on this case does not exist in principle. Democracy is essentially the same nonsense as communism - the hope of a miracle that will happen by itself.

Quote: avva2012

I foresee statements about the inconsistency of the communist system.

Of course. Because the Communists believe in fairy tales and rely on magic. An example is the theory of evolution, according to which everything spontaneously appeared from nothing. Accordingly, the Communists worship this theory in the hope that the race of ideal Communists will emerge from nothing in the same way. True, they themselves do not know what it is. As I understand it, these are specially programmed robots. Or people who almost since birth have been sitting in chemistry, getting a permanent feeling of freedom, joy and happiness in exchange for the need to work continuously.

Quote: avva2012

Without self-purification, any system begins to kill itself.

To talk about self-cleaning, you must first build a certain system and call it ideal. Accordingly, everything that does not fit the ideal will be subject to purification. So. I can still come up with a system of mechanisms. But as far as people are concerned, there is no pass, it’s not necessary to talk about any clear-cut system based on these chaotic creatures. With the same success, you can graze a herd of cats.

[avva2012]

Always amazed when human society begins to be compared with a herd. Do you have knowledge of ethology on the one hand and sociology on the other? Do you ascribe yourself to the sheep and therefore know their behavior?
Democracy, is this the same nonsense? And what is not nonsense? In memory pops up: Anarchy, mother of order and Germany above all. What are you leaning towards, or do you have a third way? I can upset you, it doesn’t. Simply, you hate the Communists, and the rest, blah, blah, blah.
This, you, are telling tales here, and the Marxist ideology is logical. You will refute it with the help of the same scientific constructions as she, then, then this will be a serious conversation, and only emotions.
The ideal system can be located in the head of the individual, everything else is not perfect, like your body, but it works, after all. Although, maybe the problem with the chair, is this the reason?

[brn521]

Quote: avva2012

Always amazed when human society begins to be compared with a herd.

Of course. Neither charter nor drill training. Herd - this is still mildly said. And now, in addition, imagine a soldier choosing a commanding staff. However, this already happened after the February Revolution. With a natural result.
[

Quote: avva2012

Do you ascribe yourself to the sheep and therefore know their behavior?

Exactly. Others decide what I must do, I fulfill. And people like me, every first one.

Quote: avva2012

Democracy, is this the same nonsense? And what is not nonsense?

A system that can last at least several thousand years, and not 2-3 generations.

Quote: avva2012

What are you leaning towards, or do you have a third way?

I have an antipathy to any system since school. And I'm more inclined to the classic three-layer pyramid. The top, the servants and the foundation. The top controls, the servants do the main work, including the control. The rest is the vast majority in reserve.

Quote: avva2012

I can upset you, it doesn’t.

On the contrary, the most common version. Captain who knows where to sail. Rowers who actually do the job. And passengers, just in case. In order to promptly replenish the ranks of rowers, and if necessary, at the expense of quantity, provide enough candidates for the post of captain, his assistant, navigator, etc.

Quote: avva2012

Simply, you hate the Communists, and the rest, blah, blah, blah.

What kind of communists? Communism does not exist and no one has mastered giving him any sensible description. And at the same time, I note, in the last election I voted for the Communists. I don’t remember that I believe in them, apparently, this is a typical custom-made opposition, but in order to somehow squeeze EP into the Duma.

Quote: avva2012

This, you, are telling tales here, and the Marxist ideology is logical.

The aporia about Achilles, who cannot catch up with the turtle, is also logical at first glance. Until you consider it from a practical point of view.

Quote: avva2012

disprove it with the same scientific constructions

How can religious dogmas be refuted with the help of scientific constructions? Either you believe that Marx is the messiah who sees the future and has indicated a quick and correct path of development, or not. They set up an experiment - the experiment failed miserably.

[3x3zsave]

Hello, Doctor! The third way is, however, it is located outside of political, moral and ethical categories. He is in the field of virology and technology development.

[avva2012]

Hello Anton! In my opinion, morality is always there, but morality can cause problems along the way.

[brn521]

Quote: kalibr

MUST BE UNDERSTANDED

Unsustainable in practice, an idealistic view of the world. In reality, no one owes anyone if there is no coercive mechanism. The task of ideology is to replace some of the real mechanisms of coercion with virtual ones that are stitched in the head.

[Curious]

"So, how did the party educate the masses of Soviet workers in the spirit of Marxism-Leninism, proletarian internationalism and rejection of bourgeois ideology from 1985 to 1990?"
In these years, after a series of funeral processions to the Kremlin wall, the CPSU and its youth vanguard of the Komsomol were already an ideological corpse, releasing the remains of steam through a whistle.
Therefore, in these years the party could only poison the masses of Soviet workers with the miasms of its decomposition. Folk art of those years: "Three rush across Russia, Misha, Paradise, perestroika". And the phrase about the spirit of Marxism - Leninism and rejection of bourgeois ideology in these years is black humor, not otherwise.
The result of ideological efforts M.S. Gorbachev summed up in 1991, completing the collapse of the USSR.

[Amurets]

Quote: Curious

Therefore, in these years the party could only poison the masses of Soviet workers with the miasms of its decomposition.

I want to add. They called the five-year plan 1980-1985: "The five-year plan of a magnificent funeral"

[Reptiloid]

Something is clarifying in the comments, but I did not understand the article from the word “completely”, although I read it when there were no comments yet “But I am not ashamed to do anything, the connection of the times has been broken.

[Amurets]

Quote: Reptiloid

Something is clarifying in the comments, but I did not understand the article from the word “completely”, although I read it when there were no comments yet “But I am not ashamed to do anything, the connection of the times has been broken.

Hello Dima. Sometimes a dissertation is hard to understand. An article about propaganda and ideology during the years of perestroika. And in the comments, mainly people who have experienced this period as adults and know what they are commenting on.

[Curious]

The article describes how the ideological apparatus, decomposed with the party, functioned in the last years of the existence of the USSR. A process for the sake of a process. Despite the fact that people who frankly believed those who believed in all this bullshit were idiots led the process. Then the same people began to openly use the same apparatus for the collapse of the country. It was in those years that the skill of retraining in flight flourished. Some even got the hang of changing clothes, without landing several times. We are still reaping the fruits.

[Amurets]

Quote: Curious

The article describes how the ideological apparatus, decomposed with the party, functioned in the last years of the existence of the USSR. A process for the sake of a process. Despite the fact that people who frankly believed those who believed in all this bullshit were idiots led the process.

It’s hard to challenge anything here. Yu. Slatov, author’s note in Afghanistan. The book "My war."
"And the fighters-
I don’t care: what is black, what is steel. What my
sidekick Vovka, having returned from Chagcharan, summed up:
- Yes, Yurka, you were "lucky" under the demobilization. Here's a
had a substitute order bearer! Doesn't the butt hurt?
Well, what to answer my friend? The way it is. Instead of
to go with the company to combat, almost half a month behind
was full of x ... - that work, after which some
some commanders concluded: but in FIG
Are we political? The question to which we young fly-
chi yes starli, did not know the answer. "

[kalibr]

Here it is! And one of the reviews on the work emphasized that it was written in a simple and understandable language ...

[Curious]

Vyacheslav Olegovich! If you write reviews more or less for a long time and have no complaints against the applicant, then the review becomes standard, noting the merits of the dissertation. True, sometimes in order to search for advantages, one had to conduct more research than in the dissertation itself.

[kalibr]

This I just understand very well. And they wrote to me, and I myself wrote, and not one. But this is still not common. More often noted scientific and depth.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

Here it is! And one of the reviews on the work emphasized that it was written in a simple and understandable language ...

So it’s not said for whom it’s simple, for whom it is understandable. Here it was necessary to write, which is understandable and simple for those who saw this at a conscious age. And who was in the children's party, and even in the exploration party ...... Although I remember the years 91, 92,93, 94 very well, I’ve already returned to Leningrad. I’ll read the comments, and the facts in the article ----- nothing I don’t understand, and I won’t try, it’s like some kind of wall.

[Mikado]

"Five-year magnificent funeral"

there was also the concept of "carriage races". Although I still walked under the table, I remember the first general secretary of Gorbachev.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mikado

there was also the concept of "carriage races".

- Comrade, the passage to the funeral of the Secretary-General is by invitation only.
- I have a subscription!

[Mikado]

joke of that time? spicy!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Mikado

joke of that time?

Yeah - the time of the funeral dear Konstantin Ustinovich.

[Mikado]

no wonder that the joke appeared after three consecutive funerals in 2 years

[Mikado]

avva2012,
so did not participate! Your presence would make the discussion even more informative

[avva2012]

Nikolay, I read it today, when it was all over. In addition, I repeat, as it says in the comments, this is something! Why spoil? ps damn, emoticons on a smartphone earned

[Mikado]

when it's over

what does it mean "over"? Doctor, are you a communist? The Revolution has no end! Well, as you wish. If you think that the gestalt will be violated, then you, as a doctor, know best.

it’s written, it’s something!

The discussion was good! Good topic, chatted well.

[avva2012]

Voooot, more than that. And about the revolution, you're in vain))). So far, it seems, the tops can, and the lower classes want))), so I personally have no revolutionary situation, which in my personal life, I wish everyone with all my heart!

[Mikado]

I don’t have a revolutionary situation, which in my personal life, I wish everyone with all my heart

I will gladly join

[parusnik]

By the way .. and you noticed, on the branch there are no "shkoloty" -Calls, Kosice ... and others from this legion ... that’s a serious topic and comments on it ... and shkolota really have nothing to say ..

[Mikado]

Kosice

Cat, in the sense of? he is not a shkolota, he is several years older than me, and the uncle is clever. The most "slogan wars" were at the beginning of the year, then everything was quiet. Sometimes you even regret it ...... fun time was
and of the rest of the "patriotic communists," most were adults, some even pensioners. Particularly frantic allowed swearing, and were apparently banned. Someone became uninteresting ..

[parusnik]

Nooooo not a cat ... just as he wrote .. Cat is an interesting interlocutor ...

[Mikado]

ahhh, Kosice ... didn’t communicate, I don’t know this. And Kotishch should have come in more often, busy, apparently.

[Alexander Greene]

At least a third of Ukrainian nationalists and their families who were rehabilitated in the 1950s became, by the mid-1970s, the leaders of district, regional, and executive committees in Western, Central and South-Western Ukraine, as well as leaders of various ranks in Ukrainian ministries and departments.
According to archival data of party bodies, in the early 1980s. "the proportion of people of Ukrainian nationality rehabilitated in 1955-1959 and repatriates in the party and regional committees of western Ukraine ranged from 35% to 50%."

On September 17, 1955, on the proposal of Khrushchev, a Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR “On Amnesty for Soviet Citizens Cooperating with the Occupants during the Great Patriotic War in 1941-1945” was adopted, which rehabilitated persons directly working as puppet bodies authorities in the occupied regions, as well as those collaborators who, in 1955, remained in the West, being probably recruited by West German (BND) and other Western intelligence.

Rehabilitated Nazi henchmen, many of whom had their hands in the blood of Soviet people, left the camps with absolutely clean documents: "Collection of USSR Laws, 1938 - 1975. M. 1975. T.Z. S. 411-413, from 17 September 1955: ... 3. Release from prison regardless of the sentence of persons convicted of service in the German army, police and special German formations Release from further serving the sentence of persons sent for such crimes to exile and expulsion ... 6 .Remove the criminal record and loss of rights from citizens exempted from punishment on the basis of this Decree; To remove the criminal record and loss of rights from persons previously convicted and serving a sentence for crimes listed in Article 7 of this Decree. 1941. Release the responsibility of Soviet citizens, being abroad who during the Great Patriotic War of 1945-XNUMX surrendered to the enemy or served in the German army, police and special German formations ... "

At least a third of Ukrainian nationalists and their families who were rehabilitated in the 1950s became, by the mid-1970s, the leaders of district, regional, and executive committees in Western, Central and South-Western Ukraine, as well as leaders of various ranks in Ukrainian ministries and departments.
According to archival data of party bodies, in the early 1980s. "the proportion of people of Ukrainian nationality rehabilitated in 1955-1959 and repatriates in the party and regional committees of western Ukraine ranged from 35% to 50%."

[Curious]

And you can cite the source of these data. It is a link to the "data of party archives" and who specifically worked with them. And also the fate of collaborators of other nationalities, except for Ukrainian. In your opinion, all the repatriates without exception were nationalists?
In addition, as I understand it, your extensive commentary is intended to illustrate in whose hands the propaganda that led to the collapse of the USSR was. Well, Western, Southwest and Central Ukraine. And the rest of the sixth of the land? Or really wanted to write something?

[Lex.]

There was such a TV show Spotlight adjustment

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

According to archival data of party bodies

This requires specific data: archive, fund, No. of affairs. And so this is an empty chatter!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

This requires specific data: archive, fund, No. of affairs. And so this is an empty chatter!

I didn’t work with archives, I found these numbers on the site Century
www.stoletie.ru/territoriya_istorii/polzuchij_nac
izm_944.htm
but in confirmation of this I will cite the story of my former teacher, who in the 70-80s was the head of one of the departments of the regional committee, a member of the regional committee’s bureau, a delegate to the 28th congress of the Communist Party of Ukraine in 1990, returning from Kiev home, he was traveling in a neighboring compartment with delegates from Western Ukraine, a whole horde filled them, they celebrated the victory. Voices were heard, as we all of them did, managed to push our positions into party documents.

So they rejoiced that in one of the documents adopted at the 28th congress of the Communist Party of Ukraine, concerning the program principles of the Communist Party’s activity, they managed to push through such an anti-party position as the party’s tolerance towards factionalism. This was the end of the Communist Party of Ukraine.

But in Russia the same processes were going on, otherwise the destruction of the USSR would not have happened.

[kalibr]

I read the article you indicated on the site. And the comments on her are more interesting. But the most important thing. There are no links to archives. NOT ONE! That is, it's all rehash from other people's words. Such serious materials cannot be considered as such if they do not have a reference apparatus. Of course, there was something like that. Nobody argues with this. One of the 28 Panfilovites also turned out to be a traitor and served the Germans. But the scale of the phenomenon requires an EVIDENCE BASE, but there is no base, there are unproven statements with references to the "seven-grandfather." This is a primitive approach to such a complex topic.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

There are no links to archives. NOT ONE!

Firstly, you worked with archives and imagine what kind of information this is. The man conducting the research came and looked at the accounting cards, where there are autobiographical data of the persons of interest to him, looked at the pedigrees. Here you can only refer to cards.
Secondly,. this can be determined without archives, having checked the ins and outs of the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada of the Ukrainian SSR of the last convocation, they then did not hide their past, even Kravchuk wore a Bandera meal in his childhood,

[Curious]

Alexander Green! My comment, indicating that you are using unverified, unconfirmed data, as well as the inconsistency of your argument, did not contain anything in form or content that could be attributed to a violation of the site’s rules, but it was deleted. How can you comment on this fact.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Curious

You use unverified, unconfirmed data, as well as the inconsistency of your argument

1. About unverified data. It’s not your address, pay attention to your colleagues, our opponents, to start with, they generally carry nonsense. If you were embarrassed by my last comment, then I cited a site on which these data are published and I trust them, because from the experience of my life I was convinced of their fairness. In addition, what specific archival information do you want to receive? Do you really think that the person who is researching this issue has reviewed a certain number of personal files, compiled his own table and handed it over to the archive, where it was filed and numbered?
2. About my argument. Well, I argue how I can, not everyone is given the command of impeccable logic, as I.V. Stalin.
3. Why was your comment deleted? I don’t know, I didn’t read it. All questions to the administration. I, too, received a warning for a harmless comment.

[Curious]

"If you were embarrassed by my last comment, then I cited a site on which these data are published and I trust them, because from the experience of my life I was convinced of their fairness."
Those. Your trust is the basis for determining the reliability of certain historical documents? No words, just feelings. Or is it trolling like that?
Listen, I don’t know how old you are, but judging by your arguments, you have not come out of childhood. Or pretend, as there is nothing to answer. Therefore, I consider further discussion with you unnecessary.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Curious

Listen, I don’t know how old you are, but judging by your arguments, you have not come out of childhood. Or pretend, as there is nothing to answer. Therefore, I consider further discussion with you unnecessary.

Mutually!

[Type 63]

In Ukraine, 90% of party propagandists gradually transformed into Bandera. Still disgusting thing - Partheichi.

[kalibr]

Quote: vladimirZ

What is the conclusion from those events I made:
- it is impossible to consider anyone irreplaceable, no matter how many seven span of mind he is, an alternative and a timely change should be to any leader;
- you can’t be silent if you think that this or that leader of a party or state is conducting a wrong, anti-people’s policy, no matter who you are, at least a simple teacher.
Unfortunately, our people, their active part, did not draw from the bitter lesson of the collapse of the USSR the conclusions that I wrote about, about which the leaders of Russia have been talking for more than a decade and a half and have continued to pour in: "There is no alternative to Putin." After this, grief for the joyless future fate of our state, and our majority of people who are foolish, covers.

I fully support you. And this applies to ALL representatives of the Soviet leadership since the 17th year!

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

Here you can only refer to cards.

Ignorance! Cards are stored in the corresponding FUND. There is no concept of CARDS in the fund. There are affairs. Cases have an ACCOUNT NUMBER. PAGES are indicated in each case. All this makes up the SOURCE, which is given MANDATORY in such a complex issue. The author is obliged to indicate the NUMBER of PERSONAL MATTERS worked out by him, if he worked with them, or indicate the total number of documents entered into scientific use by them. Pedigrees pass on other funds and there too. Without this, it’s all bullshit! You do not like the way they write about the MILLIONS OF Shot by Stalin? No! But there are GARF documents, where all this is in the cases, and when I wrote articles about it, I gave links to these cases, as well as photocopies of the Panfilov’s case. And what is given here?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Ignorance! Cards are stored in the corresponding FUND. There is no concept of CARDS in the fund. There are affairs. Cases have an ACCOUNT NUMBER. PAGES are indicated in each case. All this makes up the SOURCE, which is given MANDATORY in such a complex issue. The author must indicate the NUMBER of PERSONAL AFFAIRS worked out by him,

About ignorance. PERSONAL cases, in fact, were considered at meetings of party committees, district committees, etc., and personal files with personal data, for example, party members, which usually contain personal records of this person, are stored in the archives.

About pedigrees. It’s to blame, he put it wrong, I couldn’t even think that you would imagine a family tree by the type of nobility. I just meant that the personal records cards contain data about their parents, about the parents of the wife or husband, they even wrote where they are buried.
About the millions shot by Stalin. Your brethren bring this figure to 60 million. Even if you show me a hundred of such "archival" documents, I still won’t believe it. Because as a pioneer, I participated in the Timur movement and helped families whose husbands or children died at the front, stars were painted on these houses and apartments. So there were hundreds of such stars on one street, and my father could not name a dozen of those repressed under Stalin throughout the city.

[kalibr]

Show me at least one of my articles where this figure would be. It was about Lying AS LEFT and RIGHT - not good! And, by the way, there are no such documents. They show a completely different thing. Although also a lot.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

Show me at least one of my articles where this figure would be.

Colleague, can you read? I wrote "your brethren", by which I mean all anti-advisers like Solzhenitsyn, Roy Medvedev and the like. Solzhenitsyn, for example, brought the number of repressed to 100 million.

[kalibr]

That you do not know how to read. What kind of a brother is he to me if he lies, but I do not? Goose pig is not a friend! But you can not continue. Everything is clear to me. There are no documents. There are no links. There is speculative speculation that this was. Nobody argues with this. Important% of these people, established on the basis of archival data. Here is how in this material. But there is none of this. Worthless such materials.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

What kind of a brother is he to me if he lies, but I do not?

Solzhenitsyn slandered the USSR, and you’ve noticed this, so you’re on the same field of berries.

Quote: kalibr

Worthless such materials

They may not have values ​​for you, but they help us a lot in their work, because they reflect real reality.

[kalibr]

Green, I’m not surprised that everything happened here in Ukraine, with people like you. Knock knock - is there anyone at home? "and you are noticed, so that you are one field of the berry." Who, who are the judges? Professors from the machine? Seen and in what? Defamation is when false information is reported that is not based on data from publicly available sources. In which article and where, did I give such information that does not have links to certain publicly available archival materials? Reflections on their basis - as much as you like, this is the right of any citizen of the Russian Federation. But .. the figures and facts, that is, the basis of any thoughts, that is, the basis of the foundations, have always been given to me with links to archives and dissertations, not even to a monograph. At least one link (except for the knights!) To a book of some Russian author writing about the USSR? Only to the archives! Or the material was written on the basis of verified archival data. You can also easily get this information, and everyone has the right to conclusions on them. So you don’t have to write nonsense. Distinguish slander and judgment based on reliable facts. Defamation always contains false information, and, as a rule, its sources are not indicated. And yet - facts that do not have documentary evidence cannot help in the work. It's the same as building a house on the sand.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

... Distinguish slander and judgment based on reliable facts. Defamation always contains false information, and, as a rule, its sources are not indicated.

Dear, you have written so many libel on socialism and Soviet power that they overshadowed all your good intentions.

[Pushkar]

Everything turns out to be simple. "They are terribly far from the people." The propagandist is poured about something "high", and people live on the earth, here and now. And they are interested in where the food went, why the buses do not go well, when and from where they will give everyone apartments. That is why, when the power of the Krasnobaev collapsed, no one rushed to save it. Tired of hollow trunks.