New speeds and space potential of the project MiG-41

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During the recent international military-technical forum "Army-2017", many statements were made on the topic of further development of domestic weapons and equipment. Much attention was paid to new projects in the field of combat aviation. In particular, some new details of possible ways of further development of the interceptor aircraft group were revealed. As it became known, one of the domestic aviation companies has very remarkable plans in the context of the program "Long-range Interception Advanced Aviation Complex".

New speed and space



New information about the PAK DP program was announced by the Director General of the Russian Aircraft Building Corporation "MiG" Ilya Tarasenko in an interview for the TV channel Zvezda. The head of the company did not go into details, but he made very interesting plans for a new project and some of its features. Some publicized information may be of particular interest in the light of the development of domestic and world aviation.

According to I. Tarasenko, the corporation is already engaged in the creation of a new interceptor aircraft. At the same time, the new project is regarded as the natural development of the already existing MiG-31 aircraft, which solves the same tasks. At the same time, the new interceptor, in terms of technology, will be a completely new aircraft. The project is supposed to use various new technologies, including in the field of reducing visibility. All this will allow the interceptor to work in space, as well as show “new speeds, new radius”. RSK MiG, according to its CEO, plans to implement all the existing developments in the new project.


Modern interceptor MiG-31BM. Photo of Wikimedia Commons


In another interview, the head of MiG told about plans to adapt the aircraft to work in the Arctic regions, for which the project will have to use some appropriate technology. In the long term, the existing project is supposed to be reworked by adding new features. The result of this work can be unmanned modification of the interceptor.

In addition, during the Army-2017 forum, I. Tarasenko announced approximate dates for the start of deliveries of promising interceptors. Currently, the project is at the stage of developing a general concept. In the future, we will have to start full development work. Serial vehicles, conventionally designated as MiG-41, can go to the troops already in the middle of the next decade. The number planned for the construction of airplanes, for obvious reasons, did not specify.

Available information

It should be noted that the fact of the existence of the program “Perspective Aviation Complex of Long-Range Interception”, the purpose of which is to gradually replace the existing MiG-31 aircraft of all modifications, has long been no secret. The plans to create a new interceptor with higher characteristics became known in 2013 year. Nevertheless, any exact information about the technical appearance of the required machine and other features of the project remains unknown. However, from time to time officials announced certain plans, and the proposed schedule of work was repeatedly adjusted.

The desire of the military to create a new interceptor aircraft to replace the MiG-31 became known about four years ago. In 2014, it was announced the start of the preliminary study of the future interceptor. According to the plans of the time, development work was to begin in the next few years. However, as far as is known, this stage of the development of the draft PAK DP has not yet begun for one reason or another. Moreover, already in 2015, the command of the air force clarified that they would launch OCD only in 2019, with a corresponding shift in the timing of the start of mass production.

Back in 2015, several enterprises of the Russian defense complex expressed their desire to participate in the development of a promising aircraft. First of all, the design interest in the PAK DP program was shown by RAC "MiG". Several decades ago, this organization created the existing interceptor MiG-31, and is still engaged in the development of this project. Experience in the development of such aircraft equipment can be used in creating new models of similar purpose.

Almost simultaneously with the appearance of information about the desire of RAC "MiG" to participate in the new program, the working designation of the aircraft, the MiG-41, began to appear in the press. For obvious reasons, such a name appears only in statements by representatives of the aircraft building corporation, while the command of the Aerospace Forces is still using the official name of the entire program - PAK DP.

In December, 2015, Sergey Korotkov, who at that time held the post of head of the RAC "MiG", spoke about the current achievements of the MiG-41 project. By that time, the specialists of the corporation had managed to determine the main features of the future aircraft and began to work out the exact technical look. Also noted the possibility of using the most advanced materials and principles of aviation.

In June, 2017, the new head of the MiG company, I. Tarasenko, reiterated the projects under the PAK DP program. At that time, aircraft manufacturers continued to study the technical appearance of the new aircraft. It was also noted that work is still being carried out on an initiative basis, although with the involvement of some related organizations.

Just a few days ago, the Director General of RAC "MiG" announced new curious details of the project with the symbol MiG-41. The use of new technologies and solutions has already been announced. The possibility of obtaining higher performance characteristics with the help of modern technology have made public officials. At the same time in a promising project can be offered completely new opportunities.

Work in space

The greatest interest in recent statements I. Tarasenko represent information about some kind of work interceptor in space. The head of the aircraft building corporation did not go into details, however, and in this “abbreviated” form, the announced information is of great interest. In particular, such statements have already managed to provoke a wave of forecasts and estimates, the authors of which are trying to understand and predict exactly how the future PAK DP will be able to work in space, and what tasks it will solve under these conditions. Let us also try to determine the prospects of such proposals.

New speeds and space potential of the project MiG-41
One of the advanced MiG-31D in the hangar. Left - rocket "Contact". Photo Testpilot.ru


Designed to replace existing MiG-31 aircraft, the Advanced Airborne Interception Complex will have to have corresponding combat capabilities. An effective radar station capable of monitoring large areas of airspace and accompanying a significant number of targets will be located on board. In addition, the promising MiG-41 will have to carry various types of air-to-air missiles capable of hitting targets at distances of up to several hundred kilometers.

With the help of such equipment and weapons, the new interceptor, like its predecessor, will be able to patrol, control a given area of ​​airspace and, in the event of the appearance of a dangerous object, carry out an attack. It can be considered that from the point of view of the main combat characteristics, in the role of the aircraft interceptor, the new PAK DP will be superior to the existing machines.

Sounded statements about "work in space" may raise questions in the context of the technical appearance of the aircraft and its combat use. For example, it is obvious that using existing technologies and structures, the MiG-41 itself will not be able to go into outer space. The solution of such problems will require the use of a special look of the machine, which is not very compatible with mass exploitation in parts of the VCS. In this work space can be carried out without raising to great heights, corresponding to the boundary of the atmosphere.

Of great importance for the armed forces of the developed countries have a group of spacecraft for various purposes. The destruction of artificial satellites is still quite a challenge, for the solution of which it is necessary to use special means. At the same time, over the past few decades, in our country and abroad, there have been several attempts to create a relatively simple anti-satellite weapon. In particular, the ideas of creating such systems based on existing aircraft were examined and tested in practice.

A recent statement by I. Tarasenko could have been a hint that the MiG-41 project is considering the possibility of using an interceptor as a carrier of special missiles intended for attacking spacecraft in orbit. In this case, the aircraft will have to raise the rocket to a predetermined height and give it an initial impetus. Further work on the destruction of the target will be performed by a rocket independently.

Project "Contact"

It is recalled that these ideas are not new for the Russian combat aircraft. Back in the late eighties of the last century, two prototype MiG-31D aircraft were built on the basis of serial interceptors. They lost part of the onboard equipment and received new devices. In particular, instead of several units of the suspension of regular rockets, a single unit was used for experienced weapons, characterized by large dimensions. The aircraft reworked in this way became the main element of the 30P6 “Contact” antisatellite complex.

MiG-31D was the carrier of a special 79М6 “Contact” rocket. According to reports, the latter was a three-stage product with solid-propellant rocket engines in the first two stages and a liquid third. For the destruction of spacecraft it was proposed to use the so-called. kinetic interception with the defeat of the target by a direct hit or a high-explosive warhead with a charge of several tens of kilograms. A missile with a length of about 10 m weighing more than 4,5 t, starting from a height of no more than 16-18 km, could hit satellites at altitudes up to 120 km.

Together with the aircraft and the rocket, the “Contact” complex included a radar-optical station for the detection and recognition of space objects 45-X6 “Krona”. It was intended to search for targets in outer space, determine their coordinates and issue target designation to a rocket aircraft carrier. For the transfer of teams had to develop a separate communication system with the required characteristics.

Tests of individual ground facilities of the 30P6 “Contact” complex started in 1985 year. At the beginning of the 1987, the first of the two experienced MiG-31Ds were lifted into the air. According to reports, tests of anti-satellite systems continued until the mid-nineties and ended in connection with problems of an economic nature. Accurate information about the missile tests 79M6 absent. Perhaps it was possible to lift it into the air, but information on this has not yet been published. The project "Contact" did not give the desired results and did not lead to the beginning of the duty of new means of anti-space defense. However, it allowed for a number of important tests and determine the prospects of such weapons.

In 2009, Air Force Commander Colonel-General Alexander Zelin made a curious statement. He recalled the MiG-31D project - the carrier of anti-satellite weapons based on a serial interceptor. At the same time, he noted that at that time it was planned to “reanimate” the old project to solve new problems. However, over the years, new information on this subject did not appear. In addition, some sources mentioned that such work was carried out not for the resumption of work on the subject of “Contact”, but in the interests of other projects.

The fact that our country has a large number of developments and, possibly, certain successes in the creation of aviation complexes with anti-satellite armaments may to some extent reveal the recent statements by the RAC "MiG" leadership about the new capabilities of the PAK DP aircraft. It is quite possible that the claimed “work in space” will be connected precisely with the use of modern analogs of the older 30P6 “Contact” complex with the 79М6 guided missile. The use of modern developments and technologies is likely to improve the basic technical and combat characteristics of such weapons.


MiG-31D during the test. Photo Airwar.ru


However, all this - only assumptions. The management of the company, in a proactive manner, working on the project of the “Perspective Long-Range Aviation Complex”, revealed some of its plans, but is not in a hurry to share details. The VKS command, in turn, has not yet commented on the statements of representatives of the RAC "MiG". Thus, at the moment, the possibility of using the future of the MiG-41 aircraft as a carrier of an anti-satellite rocket remains at the level of assumptions or topics for disputes among specialists and amateurs of military equipment.

additional benefits

However, the use of a new aircraft to intercept trans-atmospheric targets can most significantly increase the combat capability of aerospace forces, and also to some extent simplify the organization of echeloned defense. Other ways to build capacity of the interceptor park will be the use of so-called. stealth technology and the possible creation of an unmanned aircraft modification.

It should be noted that certain methods of reducing the visibility of the aircraft for the detection of the enemy have already been used in recent domestic projects of aviation technology. The development of existing ideas continues and it can be assumed that the future PAK DP aircraft in this regard will be at least as good as the existing samples.

The proposal to create an unmanned modification of the interceptor is also of some interest both to potential customers and to the general public. At present, in our country and abroad, the issue of creating drones heavy class, capable of replacing full-fledged aircraft. The new PAK DP program has every chance of getting a similar development and leading to the emergence of equipment with unusual capabilities. Nevertheless, a heavy UAV will be developed only on the basis of a finished aircraft, which in a certain way shifts the timing of its appearance.

***

According to the latest data, the Russian Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation “MiG”, which proactively develops its own version of the “Perspective Long Range Interception Aviation Complex”, continues to shape the appearance of the car with a working designation MiG-41 and, among other things, offers the most daring ideas. In addition to the already known information, it was recently announced the desire to create a complex capable of operating in space, as well as an unmanned version of an interceptor.

However, the MiG-41 project has not yet received customer support and is still being created at the initiative of the developer company. Thus, the proposed version of the long-range interceptor - even with certain advantages and radically new possibilities - may not leave the preliminary study stage. The development work on the PAK DP theme is expected to start only in 2019, and by this time the Ministry of Defense will have to select the new order executor. Whether RSK MiG will succeed in obtaining an order for developing a new aircraft and embodying the most daring ideas in the project will be shown in time.


On the materials of the sites:
http://tvzvezda.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://ria.ru/
https://aex.ru/
http://testpilot.ru/
http://ariwar.ru/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-699.html
77 comments
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  1. +3
    1 September 2017 07: 12
    I’m sorry, not a specialist, although I’m an aircraft manufacturer from the former TAPOiCh, a caster. Here is an unmanned MiG-41 that is 4 ++++, 5 or 6 ---, explain to the amateur. And the plane is cool !!
    1. +5
      1 September 2017 08: 35
      Quote: andrewkor
      I’m sorry, not a specialist, although I’m an aircraft manufacturer from the former TAPOiCh, a caster. Here is an unmanned MiG-41 that is 4 ++++, 5 or 6 ---, explain to the amateur. And the plane is cool !!


      heh I'm not a specialist either, but I think that the MiG-41 in an unmanned version will most likely belong to the 6th generation. Provided that other requirements (which will be formed) will correspond to the new generation of aircraft. By the way, we have already started creating requirements / determining the appearance of a 6th generation fighter, it’s too early to talk about technical requirements, nevertheless: “The development of a sixth generation combat aircraft began in two directions - manned and unmanned,” said Vladimir Mikheev, Deputy General Director of Radioelectronic Technologies Concern . " therefore, the MiG-41 interceptor in an unmanned form with the ability to work in outer space will definitely be 6 generations.
      1. +2
        1 September 2017 09: 49
        As far as I am aware, from discussions on the VO, the Mig-41 is still not stealth, the weapons are all outside, not 5, but the drone is already 6, so still 6 ---?
        1. +1
          1 September 2017 10: 32
          The article says that a completely new aircraft will be created: "According to I. Tarasenko ..... the new interceptor, from the point of view of technology, will be a completely new aircraft. The project proposes to use various new technologies, including in the field of All this will allow the interceptor to work in space, as well as show “new speeds, a new radius,” add unmanned aircraft to this, and it will turn out to be generation 6. Moreover, the technologies that will be used to create it (in my opinion) will obviously be better than Su-57. It’s only a matter of time, now technology clearly doesn’t allow to create such an aircraft, we’ll bring it to mind only in the 5th generation, and in 6 generations there will be new requirements that can still change. But the MiG-41 will clearly not be 4 ++ + or 5 generation, if all Wishlist that were voiced in the article will be implemented.
          1. 0
            1 September 2017 10: 53
            I apologize in the Mig-31 photo, and I thought that the 41st would look like him, caster, what to take from me, thanks, chewed!
        2. +2
          1 September 2017 23: 52
          These generations are conditional, and you are arguing about a promising aircraft, for which there are not even any preliminary designs or formed requirements. And it is not clear whether such a plane will be at all, it can completely replace its SU-57. MIHO this is pointless.
      2. +10
        1 September 2017 10: 58
        Interestingly, if you put a radio control or even FPV on the AN-2, it will become 6+ or -1 ?! ;)
        1. +1
          1 September 2017 11: 16
          Quote: Krabik
          Interestingly, if you put a radio control or even FPV on the AN-2, it will become 6+ or -1 ?! ;)


          No, it will not :) but with the MiG-41 the situation is different. First, in the Wishlist they indicated that it should be: 1) Unmanned 2) Have the ability to work in space 3) During the creation, stealth technologies will be used (I. Tarasenko) 4) The article also spoke about "new speeds" and "new radius " In addition, in Russia at the official level they are announcing the start of development of the 6th generation aircraft (shaping the appearance / technical requirements, etc.). And if all the wishes for the MiG-41 will be realized, then it really will be a 6th generation aircraft, of course, the MiG will not be able to build such an aircraft at the moment, but when joining forces with Sukhoi, and its achievements on the Su-57, through 13- For 20 years, you can see such a plane.
          1. +2
            1 September 2017 11: 33
            You are generally right. And now the question is, by what means in 20 years it is possible to release even a prototype of the 6 of the generation. Will Russia use the NATO budget? I think the relationship is not the same. Although I wish you good luck.
            1. 0
              1 September 2017 15: 13
              So the 5th generation is sooooo expensive to bring to mind, however, it was almost brought up (hardly anyone doubts that they will bring to the series). They will again attract someone to sponsors (such as India). Is quite real.
            2. V
              +2
              1 September 2017 17: 08
              By that time, Russia will transfer the financial umbilical cord from the banking system of Anglo-Saxons to the BRICS banking system, which will subsequently allow exporting its goods and services in its national currency. This will provide an opportunity to not really think about the essential: "Where is the money, Zin?"
              1. +1
                7 September 2017 22: 08
                Torn off the tongue. Our fathers rebuilt the country after the war and didn’t make money from the IMF. EVERYTHING IS GOING TO RETURNING THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE NATIONAL CURRENCY. However, as well as the full sovereignty of Russia.
            3. +3
              2 September 2017 13: 38
              Look better behind your pocket. Otherwise, you would still fly on Mirages without American help.
              1. 0
                27 September 2017 09: 25
                on S.199 then :-)
    2. 0
      29 September 2017 20: 17
      Hi, Tashkent from Siberia, also worked for TAPOiCh. I don’t even remember the workshop, I lived at 22 Airborne Town. Is the plant completely destroyed?
  2. +2
    1 September 2017 08: 20
    Accurate information about the tests of the 79M6 missile is not available. Perhaps she was able to fly into the air, but information on this subject has not yet been published. The Contact project did not produce the desired results and did not lead to the beginning of the on-duty of new anti-space defense equipment.
    And there’s no one to voice the test results, which are useful to our PAK DP and should not know the adversaries.
    1. ZVO
      +2
      1 September 2017 17: 36
      Quote: Black Colonel
      Accurate information about the tests of the 79M6 missile is not available. Perhaps she was able to fly into the air, but information on this subject has not yet been published. The Contact project did not produce the desired results and did not lead to the beginning of the on-duty of new anti-space defense equipment.
      And there’s no one to voice the test results, which are useful to our PAK DP and should not know the adversaries.


      Americans have been doing the exact same ASM-135A ASAT anti-satellite project since 1979.
      With better features. So for example, the height of the lesion reached, according to the manufacturer, 1000km.
      Several launches were made.
      One of the launches destroyed the satellite at an altitude of 550km.
      And that was in 1985.
      So they have more experience, and our imperfections do not need them.
      Whether we want to admit it or not, but the situation is just that.
    2. 0
      26 June 2018 14: 37
      Heartily approving
  3. +7
    1 September 2017 10: 03
    So that the T-4 "weaving" flew in accordance with the requirements of the customer, it had to be made of titanium, which put it in one row for the price of a submarine, but it gave impetus to the development of technologies for processing and welding titanium and made the Soviet industry almost leader in the field to this day. In order for Mig-25 to become the fastest fighter in the world, it had to be made of stainless steel. To make the Tu-144 a little faster than Concord, we had to develop new aluminum alloys, such as heat resistant AK-4 for the wing, use titanium welding technologies in the ribs of the wing, etc. To make the hypothetical MiG-41 a starship, as it is painted, you have to Already ceramic airframe coatings, use a combined power plant, the price and cost of operation will be like the Shuttle and will build them the same. Dreamers, in general.
    1. +4
      1 September 2017 10: 24
      Oh, and I saw this with Luke Skywalker!
    2. +6
      1 September 2017 15: 29
      It seems to be cognitive dissonance :)
      With approximately 120 words, you substantiate the ability of a domestic engineer to realize any fantasy. And in three words plus one comma you refute it.
      1. +1
        1 September 2017 19: 37
        All the same, Soviet, you recall how much attention the Union paid to education, science, how much money was spent on the army and weapons, and what happened to all this?
        1. +1
          1 September 2017 21: 52
          And for you, the Soviet is not domestic?
          My father is the USSR, my mother is a Russian. Let it be hard for her alone, so then, will I love her less?
      2. +2
        2 September 2017 13: 41
        Weaving in a series did not go. Tu 144 did not fly long. Today, if you create MIG 41 with all space Wishlist, its fate will be the same, which does not cancel the fact of the development of technology during its creation. So no dissonance. Everything is written in the case. Yes
        1. 0
          2 September 2017 21: 20
          Neither you nor I know anything about MO’s Wishlist in relation to the MIG-41. Therefore, it is too early to say that "fate will be the same." But the "fact of technology development" is just not a fact. And if this development happens, then it can be even more valuable than the MIG-41 itself. Those. serve to create an even more advanced machine.
          1. +1
            2 September 2017 23: 01
            So far, the most realistic option in the current situation is an interceptor based on the PAK FA, or something in the form of a MIG 31 with composites and new engines. If it is a shuttle, it’s just a fact, because now, nobody has done anything like this. And if the device is ahead of its time as 100 and 144 its fate is also a foregone conclusion.
  4. +2
    1 September 2017 10: 50
    The space potential of the MiG-41 most likely provides for the defeat of spacecraft with promising weapons, and not its release into open space, in the extreme case at the ceiling, we still do not know.
    1. +1
      1 September 2017 11: 51
      To answer about the cosmic potential, we must first determine what space is in our understanding. On Wiki - there are about a dozen borders of the cosmos in various definitions. Starting from the border of space for humans (this is when blood boils ~ 19 km), ending with the Geocorona (this is about 100000 km).

      Most realistically, the flight altitude will be up to 50 km with the possibility of striking targets 100-150 km.

      Plus, if speeds increase to hypersonic (more than 5-7), then the pilot will not withstand overloads and an unmanned version will be needed.

      I see the following sequence:
      1. Creating an interceptor with a cruising speed of 3-5M and a flight height of 30-50 km. Manned option.
      2. Weapons will appear missiles to combat hypersonic missiles and anti-satellite missiles
      3. The transition to an unmanned version with an increase in speeds up to 10-15 M and an increase in altitude up to 1000 km
      4. The advent of lighter missiles to combat satellites and hypersonic aircraft.

      Well, the next stage is hello Star Wars and X, Y, and H type fighters.
  5. 0
    1 September 2017 11: 26
    Quote: Krabik
    Interestingly, if you put a radio control or even FPV on the AN-2, it will become 6+ or -1 ?! ;)

    Well, you give, keep a plus! From work and to work, I go past the Tashkent-3 airport, the primer is ordinary, but with a radar, I remembered how Annushki got nibbled there and presented them in an unmanned version and so on. !!!!! And Aleksandr is so serious, but correct, everything is the case, thanks!
    1. 0
      1 September 2017 14: 33
      AN-2 + Mimino - this is an unmanned version ....
  6. +1
    1 September 2017 12: 09
    It goes without saying that a specialized tool is usually better than a universal one, but is it possible that the Russian aerospace forces are multiplying aircraft types too much? Here we have a clean interceptor, at the same time the very same Su-34 immediately comes to mind - a unique case of building a clean bomber today. Is it really impossible to adapt the Su-57 to intercept? Still, modern aircraft are extremely expensive, even the United States with its budget cuts and standardizes everything that is possible.
    1. +2
      1 September 2017 13: 02
      Is it really impossible to adapt the Su-57 to intercept?

      You can’t ... This is aviation, where each type of aircraft has its own tasks, and, accordingly, performance characteristics. And with regards to interceptors - this is generally a separate article. With its speed you can’t adapt it to a stormtrooper, and vice versa ... Apart from this type, no one else has such speed and altitude.
    2. +1
      1 September 2017 13: 22
      The question is the speed and height of interception. The SU-57 has a ceiling of 20 km. The same Mig-31 is 1 km longer, and the dynamic ceiling is generally about 30 km.
      For flights at high altitude, completely different engines and other aerodynamics are needed.
      It is enough to recall the experience of the Second World War (this is when we tried to make the entire high-altitude motor, but in the end it turned out that the battles were at low and medium altitudes. But at the same time high-altitude cars were needed, but with other motors).
      Here, the same thing turns out only the height has changed. If in the Second World War the main altitude was up to 5-6 km, and 10-12 km were already flying much less frequently and not all aircraft. Now it’s the border of 10-15 km for the main actions, and at a height of 20 km they fly much less frequently. Here is a niche for protecting heights above 20 KM and a new interceptor will be designed.
      1. 0
        1 September 2017 15: 17
        I understood the situation, thanks for the detailed answers!
    3. +3
      1 September 2017 15: 50
      Quote: noviczok
      Here we have a clean interceptor, at the same time the very same Su-34 immediately comes to mind - a unique case of building a clean bomber today.

      Judging by the latest exercises, the Su-34 is no longer a front-line bomber, but a fighter bomber.
      In addition, judging by the trend in the form of ongoing MiG-31 modernization, there will be no clean interceptor in the Air Force, PMSM either - there will be an interceptor with the ability to work with iron and URA / UAB for ground targets.
  7. 0
    1 September 2017 14: 16
    Well, until they create the Mig-41, it will leak a lot of water .... taking into account constantly evolving technologies, it will be constantly supplemented and the output will be a completely new air vehicle, I think it should be attributed to the 6th generation of fighters, and there really will be drones .
  8. 0
    1 September 2017 15: 35
    I seem to begin to understand the meaning of the "cosmic" purpose. Perhaps they want to teach him to attack warheads and ballistic missiles. Those. we get, as it were, a mobile missile defense system, and thanks to hypersound, a fantastically short reaction time. The large ceiling here is a consequence of high speed, the potential radius of action is a multiple of a ground-based air defense system, a kind of first step for missiles. For all its price, it is economically profitable for us, instead of several missile defense divisions, which allows us to cover insecure areas.
    1. ZVO
      +2
      1 September 2017 17: 48
      Quote: kugelblitz
      I seem to begin to understand the meaning of the "cosmic" purpose.
      ...
      For all its price, it is economically profitable for us, instead of several missile defense divisions, which allows us to cover insecure areas.


      In my opinion, you don’t understand anything at all.
      In addition to the words about the plane - you also need to understand the words about missiles and BAO and other areas ...

      Remember the most commonly used aircraft in the world with a nominal speed of M = 3.
      His preparations for the departure took days ...

      Do you really think that a hypersonic plane will appear with a time of preparation for departure in 2 minutes?
      Warming up engines in a minute?
      Takeoff and gain speed and altitude cruising in 2 minutes?
      Cruising flight in 5 minutes to be at the missile launch point?
      And 3-5 minutes for a missile to the intended target?
      You don’t think so. that it’s not just science fiction - it’s sore nonsense ...

      And where will the stupid rocket flight be?
      After all, the "Bus" has already "dropped off" its "passengers" ...
      Why is that?
      Yes, because the flight time of the Tridents is only 15-20 minutes. And they won’t give more time.
      And the breeding of warheads will be done much earlier than launching a missile defense even in delusional fantasies ...
      Do not multiply entities beyond measure ...
      1. +1
        1 September 2017 18: 28
        Ok, take the MiG-31, which according to your words was prepared for days. I wonder how they then carried out their interception tasks? What is intelligence and missile warning system for? What prevents barrage in case of threat? I did not talk about a 100% interception, but at least it is possible to destroy part of the targets in this way, especially since the Minitman doesn’t carry many of them.

        Another moment, it has long been known about the so-called air launch, about how it positively affects the size of the rocket. So, launching it in hypersound from an altitude of 25-30 km, you can well raise its range. Or provide a neural warhead.
        1. 0
          1 September 2017 19: 08
          The MiG never flew on 3M, and the SR-71 was being prepared for days, so it just gave Mach 3, the MiGs couldn’t intercept it at all, it was once kept on track on the route.
        2. 0
          1 September 2017 21: 49
          They are trying to adapt the air launch for strike missiles in order to circumvent strategic nuclear arms treaties.

          Intercepting warheads flying from outer space can only be done theoretically by the Moscow’s A135 missile defense system with nuclear missiles.
          The A-135 system’s missiles themselves are so breathtaking that when you take off a multi-ton missile from the shaft, you won’t even see it.

          Neither the S-400 nor the S-500 nor any domes in reality intercept hypersonic targets flying from space.

          the Americans, realizing this, are crawling to our borders in the hope of intercepting missiles in the booster section.
  9. 0
    1 September 2017 17: 10
    Of course, I understand the widespread fascination with invisibles, although I do not fully approve of it - it is too expensive, worsens other characteristics and countermeasures, in my opinion, are developing faster. But to the topic of the article: Can you explain to me what the invader, operating mainly in the area of ​​its air defense, is this invisibility?
    1. ZVO
      0
      1 September 2017 17: 52
      Quote: SpaceCom
      Can you explain to me what the invader, operating mainly in the area of ​​its air defense, is this invisibility?


      The task of the interceptor is to prevent the possibility of hitting their targets.
      Given modern airborne missile systems, these ranges become much further than the range of the most long-range air defense systems.
      Accordingly, the interceptor going beyond its air defense is guaranteed and required.

      The task of the interceptor is to destroy the target. rather than demonstrating oneself.
      In aerial combat - the first target of an interceptor - in 99% of cases - will be an enemy interceptor.
      And not a lone bomber, or an RTR plane.
      There will be the same interceptor.

      And there will already be a battle of technologies at distant frontiers.
      Someone who finds out faster, someone who shoots faster.

      For in any air operation the primary task is to gain superiority in the air.
      1. +3
        1 September 2017 20: 05
        Quote: ZVO
        In aerial combat - the first target of an interceptor - in 99% of cases - will be an enemy interceptor.

        Class !!! Also arrange missile defense. whose anti-missile anti-missile anti-missile adversary. and all sorts of warheads maneuvering there. hypersonic blocks, all kinds of V-21 and PAK-DA there, let them go about their business slowly and do not prevent serious people from finding out who is longer and who is thicker.
        1. ZVO
          0
          4 September 2017 10: 41
          You are laughing in vain.
          Apparently you simply do not recognize the trends.
          Missile defense missiles - already created.
          And the battles between missiles in the tests were already ...
      2. +1
        1 September 2017 22: 01
        Quote: ZVO
        In aerial combat - the first target of an interceptor - in 99% of cases - will be an enemy interceptor.
        Not a bomber

        Explain, why? After all, the bomber is a strategic danger, if he shoots, the damage will exceed the loss of one interceptor?
        1. ZVO
          0
          4 September 2017 10: 39
          Quote: kasatky
          Quote: ZVO
          In aerial combat - the first target of an interceptor - in 99% of cases - will be an enemy interceptor.
          Not a bomber

          Explain, why? After all, the bomber is a strategic danger, if he shoots, the damage will exceed the loss of one interceptor?


          Because the main task of any modern conflict of the last 70 years is to gain superiority in the air.
          If there is air superiority (i.e., the absence of enemy fighter aircraft) - not a single ground air defense, at least 150 times layered, will not last a couple of days. It will be swept away within one or two days ... To a depth of at least 1000 km.
          1. 0
            4 September 2017 10: 59
            Quote: ZVO
            any modern conflict of the last 70 years

            Good. The war in Korea 1950-1953 falls into this period. The tactics were as follows: MIG-15 in groups of 20-40 aircraft from a height, in one run, the B-29 bombers attacked without paying special attention to the fighter guards and left.
            It’s just hard to imagine that if the B-52 group goes to our border, the interceptors will aim not for them, but for escort. Although, perhaps, you know better.
            1. ZVO
              0
              4 September 2017 11: 45
              Quote: kasatky
              Quote: ZVO
              any modern conflict of the last 70 years

              Good. The war in Korea 1950-1953 falls into this period. The tactics were as follows: MIG-15 in groups of 20-40 aircraft from a height, in one run, the B-29 bombers attacked without paying special attention to the fighter guards and left.
              It’s just hard to imagine that if the B-52 group goes to our border, the interceptors will aim not for them, but for escort. Although, perhaps, you know better.

              Missiles ... It's all about missiles ...
  10. 0
    1 September 2017 22: 42
    gets richer with dummies, right now they’ll merge two kb together and to hell with you, and not pack dp, they will create the engine for 10 years, and then not, we’ll upgrade the 31st and it’s good. request There is no professional competition and ideas. What were the fools in the Union that there were different KBs? No, they weren’t just for the purpose of competition, the mover, the thought.
    1. 0
      12 September 2017 20: 55
      So it is unfortunately, if dry absorbs a moment, then they can push the 41st away to push their money into your pocket. It’s like with Tagil and Peter in terms of tanks, there is no Peter Tagil halturite [sometimes] sad .
  11. +4
    1 September 2017 22: 55
    This publication is a good example from the finger, that is, from the three sentences you can suck the whole article. From it it is clear that nothing is clear and nothing is not yet known.
  12. +2
    1 September 2017 22: 59
    With the help of such equipment and weapons, the new interceptor, like its predecessor, will be able to patrol, control a given area of ​​airspace and, in the event of the appearance of a dangerous object, carry out an attack. It can be considered that from the point of view of the main combat characteristics, in the role of the aircraft interceptor, the new PAK DP will be superior to the existing machines.

    How will PAK DP be better than T-50? Which of the above can not do the T-50? Supersonic (as claimed) cruising speed, respectively, and good range, the ability to patrol at subsonic speeds, good radars and optics, the ability to conduct maneuverable combat, as they say - stealth. What else does?
    1. 0
      2 September 2017 16: 57
      The interceptor should not be able to patrol (especially on the dial-up), engage in maneuverable combat and be inconspicuous. He must fly to the area in a minimum amount of time, find a target and hit it. Speed ​​and range at max speed for an interceptor are key qualities. Therefore, a specialized PAK DP will do the interception much better than the universal Su-57.
      1. +3
        2 September 2017 17: 32
        Of course, it can be administratively established that the interceptor should intercept from a position of duty sitting on the ground, write it in the charters and punish those who disagree. But to win the war, you need to be able to patrol and maneuver.
        1. 0
          2 September 2017 18: 11
          The administrative methods and other voluntarism of the "stupid military" have nothing to do with it. There are extremely objective technical reasons. Any complex technique is a compromise of properties. To fly very fast, you will have to sacrifice over-maneuverability, an economical subsonic flight and, probably, a stealth.
          And to win you need to have a balanced set of weapons. No uberwaffe for all occasions is technically impossible.
          1. 0
            2 September 2017 21: 06
            About the "stupid military" - you said that.
            Want to have a “balanced set of weapons" but not a balanced plane?
            If you personally want to have (or have Russia have) a super-fast plane and do not care about maneuverability and everything else (which is very debatable) - say so. And not "The interceptor should not .... It should ...".
            1. 0
              2 September 2017 23: 43
              Quote: Falcon5555
              About the "stupid military" - you said that.

              I said that the military’s voluntarism has nothing to do with it, there is an objective reality that dictates strictly defined decisions.
              Quote: Falcon5555
              Want to have a “balanced set of weapons" but not a balanced plane?

              And the MiG-25 and Su-27 are well-balanced aircraft. The MiG-25 is balanced for the narrow task of 2,5M supersonic flight, and the Su-27 for versatility of use. Arms balance is the maximum combat effectiveness achievable for the country's military budget.

              In general, you understand my general reasoning as strange, probably I speak so poorly.
              Let's try in detail, with specifics.
              1) Why do we need an interceptor like MiG-25, PAK DP and so on? To solve air defense tasks nationwide.
              2) Can the Su-57 or any other multi-functional fighter be such an interceptor? Can.
              3) How many Su-57s, airfields, people and in general infrastructure in the form of roads, buildings, thermal power plants and so on, are needed for guaranteed cover throughout the country? Lots of. Lots and lots. It is very, very expensive.
              4) How to reduce these costs at times? Make a specialized plane that will fly faster and further (namely at high speed). Accordingly, costs are reduced multiple times.
              5) Why can't the Su-57 be made "faster and further", such as putting engines more powerful and more economical? See the short list below:
              a) because it will not allow heating from air friction. The materials used in conventional fighters do not withstand this heating - the strength of aluminum alloys decreases, and the composites degrade (hence the difficulty with the stealth).
              b) The "universal" glider of the Su-57 type fighter is not optimized specifically for high speeds, therefore there will be more resistance than the optimized one could have. Accordingly, with the same engine, fuel consumption at high speeds is greater, and the speed is less than the optimized glider could have.
              c) The "universal" engine is not optimized specifically for high speeds, so the maximum power (with the same engine mass) will be less, and fuel consumption more than that of a specially optimized for high speeds.
              Those. even if you make the Su-57 glider heat-resistant and deliver heavy-duty engines, fuel consumption will be high and, accordingly, with the same take-off weight, the flight range at high speeds will be significantly less than that of a specialized interceptor.
              Accordingly, more aircraft will be needed, more often it will be necessary to build airfields and so on. Those. expensive again.
              6) Why it is impossible to make PAK DP as maneuverable, economical and hardly noticeable as PAK FA? The reasons are partially described above. I repeat once again, because the aerodynamics of the aircraft and engines are optimized either for one mode, for example, either flying to 3M or cruising flying to subsonic, or to many modes at the same time, but with a deterioration of theoretically achievable parameters both in 3M and in subsonic. In another way.
              1. +2
                3 September 2017 14: 57
                All these are general considerations that are understandable, but not convincing. For example, when you talk about optimization in the last paragraph, you don’t take into account that you can optimize in different ways. You can simply forget about other characteristics, or you can optimize them due to minor deterioration of the main characteristics. Mathematically different characteristics are assigned different weights and the maximum of their sum with these weights is searched.
                How to reduce these costs at times? Make a specialized aircraft that will fly faster and further (namely at high speed).

                Let's look at Wikipedia.
                MiG-31:
                Maximum allowable speed:
                low altitude: 1500 km / h
                at high altitude: 3292 km / h (M = 3.1)
                Cruising speed:
                subsonic: 950 km / h (M = 0,9)
                supersonic: 2500 km / h (M = 2,35)
                Practical range:
                at an altitude of 10000 m, with M = 0,8: 1450 km
                at an altitude of 18000 m, with M = 2,35: 720 km
                Su-57:
                Top speed at height: 2600 km / h
                Maximum cruising (afterburning) speed: M = 2,1
                Practical range:
                at subsonic cruising speed:
                with 100% of fuel: 4300 km
                at supersonic cruising (afterburning) speed:
                with 100% of fuel: 2000 km

                Thus, at almost the same supersonic cruising speed, the Su-57 flies three times further on it, at its cruising speed. Moreover, according to many reports, the MiG-31 has its "cruising" speed and is almost maximum or very close to it, after a flight on which it is not necessary to make major repairs immediately.
                Thus, the MiG-31 flies a little faster, but not further, but three (!) Times closer. Do I need to fly a little faster like him? SR-71 has long been retired. If super- or hyper-sound "axes" appear, then maybe. But while they are not. If the main threat is from many thousands of subsonic axes from destroyers, then why do we need a hyper-duper-sound fighter? Russia needs a fighter capable of barrage, i.e. on duty in the air, traveling long distances (not necessarily at duper speed), maneuvering at low altitude and having a cannon with a very large supply of shells, so that it was enough to shoot 50 pieces of axes from one destroyer. I doubt that such ammunition is provided for the Su-57, but it is still more suitable for this role.
                Then why do we need the MiG-31? He just is not needed. In its current form, it is needed only for parades.
                Well, or if you adapt it for some kind of exotic type of anti-satellite missiles.
                1. 0
                  3 September 2017 16: 32
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  You can optimize in different ways. You can simply forget about other characteristics, or you can optimize them due to minor deterioration of the main characteristics.

                  For clarity, about "due to minor deterioration of the main characteristics":
                  MiG-25 wing load - 600 kg / m2
                  The wing load of the Su-27 - 375 kg / m2
                  No more arguments are needed here. This is if you understand how significant this parameter is for the aerodynamics of the aircraft and how key it is to the speed-economy-maneuverability complex.
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Thus, the MiG-31 flies a little faster, but not further, but three (!) Times closer.

                  It is impossible to operate with digits so arbitrarily as we put such advantageous. Correctly compare only for the same conditions. Firstly, why do you compare aircraft of different generations. You need to compare technologies of one level. Compare PAK FA and PAK DP (we cannot yet), or MiG-25 and Su-27. For example, the Su-27 max speed with suspended weapons only 1200-1300 km / hand the MiG-25 with missiles flew on 2,35M. Do you feel the difference now?
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Do I need to fly a little faster like him?

                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Russia needs a fighter capable of barrage, i.e. on duty in the air, traveling long distances (not necessarily at duper speed)

                  Again, the issue of economics, which for some reason you ignore. And he is the key. The most important of the most important. Watching the air in order to cover 100% of the country's perimeter, 24 hours 365 days a year, is IMPOSSIBLE for the economy. Neither ours nor the USA, nor any other. Hundreds of aircraft written off after exhaustion of resources each year will be needed. These are inconceivable costs. Therefore, we need an interceptor on duty at the airfield, which is why speed and range at this speed are so important to him - so that airfields are less likely to set up and fewer planes.
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Then why do we need the MiG-31? He just is not needed.

                  Who will solve the air defense tasks? Su-57? Where have you seen hundreds of Su-57? Su-27? I have already indicated specific figures that there is no interceptor from it.
                  1. +2
                    3 September 2017 23: 46
                    What are the numbers? I do not see. The wing load does not apply to our dispute. This is a technical detail. Of course, the Su-57 is an order of magnitude better for any "air defense tasks." Incidentally, I gave you the numbers that confirm this. Naturally, he will have to be on duty in the air, and patrol, etc. - and in a threatened period and in the conduct of hostilities.
                    1. 0
                      4 September 2017 10: 37
                      Quote: Falcon5555
                      The wing load does not apply to our dispute.

                      Let me explain, since you are not in the subject. The wing load directly shows the maneuverability characteristics - i.e. that is why the interceptor cannot be as maneuverable as the Su-27, and indirectly, shows drag, which is why some conventional aircraft, ceteris paribus, will have lower speed and shorter range with greater wing loading.
                      Please also note that for each flight speed there is its own optimal wing profile, its own wing sweep, its own optimal air intake design, its own optimal engine bypass ratio, and so on and so forth.

                      In general, I understood what the problem of our mutual misunderstanding in the dispute is, I’m talking about the underlying reasons why this and not otherwise, and you are talking about two specific aircraft - the Su-57 and MiG-31. In general, I agree that the Su-57 can completely replace the MiG-31, although it is noticeably worse as an interceptor, at least until they adopt the RVV DB.

                      PS: And finally, I note that your idea of ​​shooting down 50 axes from a cannon is technically impossible. I know you won’t believe me, just keep in mind that something is wrong, I'm sure different people will object to you more than once. wink
                      1. +2
                        4 September 2017 13: 20
                        It’s very kind of you that you explained about the wing load, but I already know that. These, as I wrote to you, are details that are irrelevant to the essence of our dispute. Let's talk about tire pressure! laughing
                        The lower the load on the wing, the higher the speed with the same engines and the same second fuel consumption. Accordingly, an airplane with a small wing should fly faster and further. But the MiG-31 flies only a little faster, and much closer. That is, even a small wing does not help him. But these are all the details.
                        As an interceptor, in our time, in the absence of SR-71 and hyper-sound missiles, the Su-57 is noticeably (i.e., at times) better than the MiG-31. Therefore, the idea of ​​reincarnating him is in doubt. You, as I understand it, believe that you can make an airplane made of steel or ceramic and with a wing with a high load (here: I mention the load for your pleasure - I see you like this topic), flying even faster than the MiG-31 and even further than the Su-57? Let's say. But he will not be maneuverable. But missiles can miss and they may not be enough in number (there will never be enough missiles against axes from destroyers) and you still have to engage in a maneuverable battle. Therefore, it may be better not to rush, but to be able to maneuver and use the gun. And back to Su.
                        About 50 axes - it’s very mysterious. But you can offer another way to shoot them down. We will see. laughing
                      2. 0
                        4 September 2017 23: 07
                        Strange, sort of wrote correctly. But now I see - a typo. The higher (and not less) the wing load, the higher the speed. You, too, are the opposite.
                    2. 0
                      24 May 2018 12: 15
                      Quote: Falcon5555
                      What are the numbers? I do not see. The wing load does not apply to our dispute.

                      It’s just physics for the eighth grade, you don’t have to be an aircraft manufacturer.
                      Quote: Falcon5555
                      MiG-25 wing load - 600 kg / m2
                      The wing load of the Su-27 - 375 kg / m2

                      This means that for the Su-27, air resistance will be higher.
                2. 0
                  4 September 2017 11: 43
                  Falcon5555 Yesterday, 14:57 PM
                  Su-57:
                  Top speed at height: 2600 km / h
                  Maximum cruising (afterburning) speed: M = 2,1
                  Practical range:
                  at subsonic cruising speed:
                  with 100% of fuel: 4300 km
                  at supersonic cruising (afterburning) speed:
                  with 100% of fuel: 2000 km


                  Dear, what are you talking about here ?.
                  You compare the aircraft, even if it is in service, but designed and manufactured under the USSR and the latest MPI, which is still at a fine-tuning stage. In doing so, operate on Su57 data for engines still undergoing bench tests. fool
                3. 0
                  24 May 2018 12: 11
                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Let's look at Wikipedia.
                  MiG-31:
                  Maximum allowable speed:

                  Quote: Falcon5555
                  Su-57:
                  Speed ​​limit

                  But nothing that the MiG-31 is forty years older?
  13. 0
    1 September 2017 23: 12
    Quote: andrewkor
    MiG on 3M never flew, and the days were preparing SR-71, so he gave 3 Mach

    Yes, of course, they flew at a speed of 2,85 M. This, of course, is a huge difference. And they, of course, could not intercept the SR-71, because after the appearance of the MiG-25 SR-71 stopped entering the airspace of the USSR. Apparently the Americans were not so sure about the invulnerability of the SR-71. Moreover, he could not maneuver and the MiG-25 could be brought to his interception, and could use its own missiles on SR-71. And the maximum speed of the MiG-25 just corresponded to the cruising speed of the SR-71, which was enough to deliver the missile to the desired launch site.
    1. 0
      2 September 2017 11: 04

      Sr-71 turned off I think because of this. Somewhere apparently in the hangars of the Moscow Region, the disassembled one is lying around. And judging by the available data, he was not instantly shot down by 25, but he was stolen in the USSR
    2. 0
      2 September 2017 11: 52
      SR71 has never been intercepted in the skies of the USSR, and it didn’t fly in, they tried to escort in neutral, they couldn’t catch up. SR71 still holds a speed record of 3529,56 km / h in 1967, expensive, poisonous garbage .With the advent of satellites, it has become irrelevant.
    3. 0
      2 September 2017 11: 56
      Dear, your words: max.speed.MiG25 = cr.speed.SR71. Do you see a difference? Have you delivered at least one rocket? Give an example. There is all the information on the Web, you just need to.
    4. 0
      2 September 2017 17: 11
      Quote: Dekabrev
      Yes, of course, they flew at a speed of 2,85 M. This, of course, is a huge difference.

      2,85 is a figure from a series of a spherical horse in a vacuum. In reality, at this speed he could fly for no more than 3 minutes due to overheating of the glazing of the lantern. Therefore, an operational restriction was introduced somewhere in 2,5M.
      And the difference with the SR-71 at 500 km / h is exactly what a huge difference.
  14. +1
    1 September 2017 23: 15
    And, by the way, the MiG-25 and MiG-31 were not prepared for departure for days, and they can also barrage, if absolutely necessary.
  15. +1
    2 September 2017 00: 25
    All this will allow the interceptor to work in space.

    what space? The lower boundary of space begins at 100km ...
    1. 0
      13 December 2017 16: 53
      To work in space, you need a rocket engine, because the air there is neem.
  16. 0
    2 September 2017 14: 35
    The long-range interceptor, and even unmanned, is cool! This is very cool, but it is possible, especially since the flight will be planned for a specific satellite (s) and you can enter the program in advance and a minimum of maneuvers. It is possible to program a free search and interception of air targets, having a powerful radar and missiles with a range greater than that of americas per 100 km).
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. 0
    10 September 2017 12: 16
    Once assembled model aircraft. I bought a MiG-37 Italian company. The instructions said that the model was made on the basis of aerospace photography. On the MiG website it was said that this aircraft never existed in nature. Then, as they say, where do the legs grow from?