Military Review

How the Februaryists officially "buried" the Russian Empire

163
The operation in Riga ended in a heavy defeat for the Russian army. Military historian A. A. Kersnovsky noted: “The ignominious chronicle of the Russian democracy has been enriched with a new shameful page. But, sadly for us the fall of Riga, it meant nothing compared to the misfortune that befell Russia in the following days. ”


Indeed, Russia was sinking deeper into confusion. And the defeats at the front were a reflection of the general catastrophe that swept across Russia. The project of the Romanovs was destroyed, and with it the whole “old Russia” collapsed into the abyss. The pro-Western liberal-democratic public, the bourgeoisie, large and medium-sized owners, the church have not yet understood this. They thought that by crushing autocracy one could curb Russia, turn it towards European civilization, “enlightenment”. You can keep the old order with the domination of those in power and the owners of capital, factories, factories and newspapers. With the “superstructure” in the form of bourgeois-liberal parties, the new “rightists” (formerly the monarchists were traditionalists, the Black Hundreds were right), who will talk about “democracy”, “freedom”, “equality”. But the real owners of Russia will be the owners, owners of money and capital. Now they were betting on the generals, who were supposed to “curb” Russia, drown the crowd prone to anarchy in blood.

General Kornilov planned to establish a strong power on dictatorial principles. After the defeat of the Russian troops in the Riga operation and the fall of Riga on August 21 (September 3), Kornilov began negotiations with Kerensky. Leading them through intermediaries, Kornilov sought to achieve a peaceful transfer to him of all power. He planned to improve the army, to restore the discipline destroyed by the revolutionaries of February revolutionaries (the February lists disbanded the army so that it could not defend the autocracy, but then the processes of degradation became irreversible). Kornilov planned to transfer the military industry and railways to martial law, which was long overdue (with the start of the war). If these measures had been thought of to conduct the tsarist government in 1914-1915, it is possible that the autocracy and the Romanov dynasty could survive and lead the process of radical modernization of the Russian empire (which the Bolsheviks eventually had to do, but after a lot of blood and huge losses).

The problem was that these measures were already late. The degradation processes have gone too far. Russia already needed a new development project, a goal and a clear program that was understandable and close to the broad masses of the people. The revolutionary revolutionaries, right and left, could not give a new development project, idea and program. The rightists wanted only “order” and “strong hand”, which would calm the crowd, turn Russia into a part of European civilization and with its bourgeois-republican order, where all real power belongs to the owners (bourgeois class). The left wanted to continue the path of "democratic reforms", which also led to the catastrophe. In addition, the leftists were afraid of Kornilov and the generals, they were afraid of losing the power they had.

On the eve of the rebellion, such public organizations as the Union of Army Officers and fleet, Cossack Council, Union of St. George Knights, Republican Center, prominent figures of the Cadet Party and even part of the Social Revolutionaries. The financial support of Kornilov’s performance through public organizations was provided by the largest Russian capitalists Pavel Ryabushinsky, Morozovs, Sergey Tretyakov, Alexey Putilov, Alexander Vyshnegradsky, representatives of the merchant clan Morozovs and others. They were afraid of losing influence and capital with the further development of the revolution.

After the occupation of Petrograd, Kornilov and his comrades planned to liquidate the Soviets and other “arbitrary organizations”, to take measures to restore discipline among the troops, at work and in transport to continue the “war to victory”, to exclude from the Provisional Government "those ministers who information were clear traitors to the motherland. " At the same time, Kornilov never formulated a clear political program. General Anton Denikin, close to Kornilov, noted that “Lavr Georgievich was neither a socialist nor a monarchist, alien to political passions,” but was close to “wide sections of liberal democracy.”

How the Februaryists officially "buried" the Russian Empire

General Lavr Kornilov (center)

Kornilov tried to negotiate with Kerensky. First, Kornilov managed to persuade Kerensky to enter reliable troops in the capital. Events at the front contributed to this. Riga fell, Petrograd was facing a possible blow from the enemy. The fear of the German offensive overpowered Kerensky’s dislike for the Russian generals. The 3 Cavalry Corps of General Alexander Krymov (he was in the reserve of the Romanian Front) advanced to the Petrogradsky district. The 3 Corps was to become the core of the Separate Petrograd Army, subordinated directly to the Headquarters. They planned to create a directory consisting of Kornilov, Kerensky and Socialist-Revolutionary Savinkov (a famous terrorist and a prominent participant in the February-March coup), endowed with dictatorial powers. Kerensky wanted to take the place of the chairman of the triumvirate. This was the main question for this ambitious man. Kornilov suggested that Kerensky go to GHQ to personally discuss this issue. But Kerensky was only a hero in appearance, he showed cowardice, was afraid that they would simply arrest him. He already regretted his collusion with the general and sent Ober-Prosecutor of the Synod V. Lvov to the Headquarters for negotiations.

24 August (6 September) Lviv arrived at Headquarters. General Kornilov explained to him that it was necessary to establish a dictatorship with the participation of Kerensky. That the general is ready to submit to the future chairman. 25 August (7 September) Kornilov moved troops to Petrograd, demanding the resignation of the Provisional Government and the departure of Kerensky to Headquarters. The commanders of the troops loyal to Kornilov were instructed to occupy Petrograd, to disarm parts of the Petrograd garrison that would join the Bolshevik movement, and to disperse the Soviets. August 26 (September 8) Lviv returned to Petrograd and informed Kerensky that Kornilov was claiming supreme authority, both military and civil. Kerensky was even more frightened for his power and ordered Kornilov to resign himself as Supreme Commander. Kornilov refused to leave his post. Petrograd's relations with Mogilyov were interrupted. On August 27 (September 9), the cadet ministers, who coordinated their actions with Kornilov, resigned, thereby trying to paralyze the activities of the government.

On the same day, the Provisional Government issued a manifesto where Kornilov was outlawed. Hero of the Carpathians was called a "traitor." In response, Kornilov called the entire Provisional Government "German mercenaries." Kerensky ordered the commanders not to subordinate the rebellious Supreme, and the troops to disobey the rebellious commanders. He pardoned the arrested Bolsheviks, called for various revolutionaries to defend the gains of the revolution, and ordered the opening of arsenals for the revolutionary workers of Petrograd. About 15 thousand people enrolled in the Red Guard detachments. While revolutionaries were actively preparing for defense, Kornilov was inactive at headquarters. In theory, he himself had to lead the corps of Krymov. But he remained in Mogilev, and almost all of his virtually random entourage left the general.

Krymov's cavalry was scattered from Pskov to Luga. The troops of the Northern Front did not resist, the arrival of the Kornilovites temporarily restored order and discipline. However, General Krymov could not take advantage of the favorable moment, while supporters of Kerensky had not yet had time to organize. Without receiving any instructions from the Stavka (the Stavka was cut off from the fronts), he was stunned by the unexpected confrontation between the Stavka and the government, he detained the troops at Luga on August 29 (September 11). And he went to clarify the situation in Petrograd, and there 31 August died. Krymov was invited to Kerensky and offered to capitulate. It is believed that realizing his position as an actual prisoner, as well as the impossibility to change anything, he preferred death to humiliating interrogations and arrest. Coming out of the office of Kerensky, he shot himself. According to one of the versions of Krymov, the adjutants of Kerensky were shot dead. The prince Bagration-Mukhransky, who had entered into the place of Krymov on the orders of the Provisional Government, took the 3 cavalry corps to the Pskov-Velikie Luki area.

The fighting of the Kornilov troops and the units of the loyal to the Kerensky and the Red Guards were insignificant. The Red Guards, so that the trains with the Kornilov troops could not pass in Petrograd, dismantled the railway track. August 29 (September 11) by the executive committee of the South-Western Front arrested Commander A. I. Denikin. Following this, the army committees of all the armies of this front arrested their commanders — generals Lukomsky, Markov, Romanovsky, Erdelyi, and others. Other supporters of Kornilov were isolated at the front and in a number of cities in the country. August 31 (September 13) - the day of the death of Krymovav - was officially announced the liquidation of the Kornilov revolt. 2 (15) September 1917 Kornilov was arrested, and together with his supporters was imprisoned in the city of Bykhov.


A group of arrested generals and officers led by Kornilov in the period of Bykhov's imprisonment. By numbers: 1. L. G. Kornilov. 2. A. I. Denikin. 3. G. M. Vannovsky. 4. I. G. Erdelyi. 5. E. F. Elsner. 6. A. S. Lukomsky. 7. V.N. Kislyakov. 8. I. P. Romanovsky. 9. S.L. Markov. 10. M. I. Orlov. 11. L.N. Novosiltsev. 12. V.M. Pronin. 13. I. G. Sots. 14. S.N. Ryasnyansky. 15. V. Ye. Rozhenko. 16. A.P. Bragin. 17. I. A. Rodionov. 18. G. L. Chunikhin. 19. V.V. Kletsand. 20. Warrant Officer S. F. Nikitin. Autumn 1917 of the year

Thus, the rebellion, which was originally prepared with the participation of Kerensky himself in order to restore "order" in the country and the army, was suppressed. Kerensky was afraid that he would lose power and declared Kornilov a “traitor”. The Right Revolutionary Februaryist camp, which planned to curtail the development of the revolution, was defeated. Kerensky himself further strengthened the regime of personal power, in fact, created his revolutionary dictatorship. Russia continued to sink into the Troubles.

1 (14) September 1917, Alexander Kerensky appointed himself the new commander-in-chief and, in order to overcome the government crisis, changed the structure of the government by creating the so-called “Council of Five” or Directory (similar to the Great French Revolution), which besides himself included four ministers - Finance Minister Mikhail Tereshchenko, War Minister General Alexander Verkhovsky, Maritime Minister Rear Admiral Dmitry Verderevsky and Minister of Post and Telegraph Alexei Nikitin. Thus, the dictatorship is still introduced, but different, aimed at preserving the "revolutionary gains".

On the same day, 1 (14) of September 1917, the Russian Republic was proclaimed by decree of the Provisional Government. Thus, the Russian Empire was officially buried. At the same time, the Directory legalized the rout of the tsarist police apparatus, the abolition of penal servitude and exile. A broad political amnesty was announced, under which the Bolsheviks were accused of organizing the July uprising. It was also promised to introduce all other political freedoms characteristic of democratic countries. All questions of the device of Russia in the future should have been decided by the Constituent Assembly.

The September 1 (14) Ordinance of 1917 stated: “The mutiny of General Kornilov is suppressed. But great distemper, made them in the ranks of the army and the country. And once again there is a great danger threatening the fate of the Motherland and its freedom. Considering it necessary to put a limit on the external uncertainty of the state system, bearing in mind the unanimous and enthusiastic recognition of the republican idea, which affected the Moscow State Meeting, the Provisional Government declares that the state order, which is governed by the Russian state, is a republican order, and proclaims the Russian republic. The urgent need to take immediate and decisive measures to restore the shaken state order prompted the Provisional Government to transfer the fullness of its power to manage five people from its composition headed by the Minister-Chairman. The interim government considers its main task to be the restoration of state order and the army’s combat capability. Convinced that only the concentration of all the living forces of a country can lead the Motherland out of the difficult situation it is in. The Provisional Government will strive to expand its membership by attracting representatives of all those elements who place the eternal and common interests of the Motherland above the temporary and private interests of individual parties or classes into their ranks. The Provisional Government has no doubt that they will complete this task in the next few days. ” The decree was signed by the Minister-Chairman A. F. Kerensky and the Minister of Justice A. S. Zarudny.

As a result, the “right” wing of the February revolutionaries — the bourgeoisie, the capitalists, the nobles-landowners, the generals, part of the officers and Cossacks, the church, was defeated. Their political superstructure — the Cadets, the Right Social Revolutionaries, were discredited. The Soviets and the Red Guard (in her hands fell to 40 thousands of rifles, issued by Kerensky himself), on the contrary, restored their positions lost after the July insurrection, exposing themselves as true "defenders of democracy." The Soviets gradually passed under the control of the Bolsheviks, who consistently and not particularly hiding prepared an armed seizure of power.


Alexander Kerensky in Petrograd

The Provisional Government, Kerensky, themselves dug up a grave. So, September 4 (17), the Provisional Government, which announced a political amnesty, had to be released from prison Leon Trotsky, who after just a couple of weeks became the chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, and after another three weeks formed the Military Revolutionary Committee on its basis. Kerensky himself later also said that "without the Kornilov revolt, there would have been no Lenin."

On the other hand, the “rightists”, after an unsuccessful attempt to restore order with the help of the generals, continued their intrigues and took the path of creating the future White movement and unleashing a civil war. 5 (18) of September, Alexander Verkhovsky is one of the members of the Directory, - wrote in his diary: “Kerensky and a group of people around him do not meet the demands of the situation now. While the masses go to the left under the influence of the growing ruin and anarchy, the intelligentsia and the possessing classes abruptly go to the right, losing faith in the people. The thought of iron power is increasingly heard; it does not indicate here just how to do it with the present disintegration of Russia into parties and classes. Kerensky remains in place and an emptiness is formed in front of him. On the other hand, he does not own the masses of control technology, he does not have the courage to make big decisions. ”

At the same time, the process of collapse, fragmentation and “autonomization” of the former empire developed. The Bolsheviks in the regions have already begun to break ties with the Provisional Government and create their "people's republics". The first to take such a step was the well-known Donbass Bolshevik Fyodor Sergeyev ("Comrade Artem"), who actively participated in the 1905 revolution of the year, and then fled from the tsarist prison and hid in Asia and Australia. 4 (17) September Artem announced the creation of a “people's republic” independent of the Provisional Government in the Donbas. 5 (18) September in the occupied German army of Lithuania was formed the so-called "Lithuanian Tariba" (Council of Lithuania) - a local government body.

6 (19) September in Kiev opened the so-called "Congress of Peoples and Regions of Russia", convened on the initiative of the Central Rada. 86 delegates representing different nations, national-religious and caste-territorial associations of the former Russian empire - Ukrainians, Belarusians, Cossacks, Crimean Tatars, Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians, Poles, Jews, Georgians, Azeris, Muslims, etc. In addition to the Poles, no one has yet advocated the complete independence of their territories, but everyone raised the question of autonomy and the federalist principles of the new democratic Russian state. Following the results of the congress, Lithuania also recognized the right to education of a sovereign state, but from its “Russian and Prussian parts”. Opening the congress, the head of the Ukrainian Central Rada, Mikhail Grushevsky, emphasized that Kiev had long become the center of the federalist movement of the Slavs, and the salvation of Russia was in its federalization. The congress formed a Council of Peoples with a center in Kiev to prepare for the start of the work of the Constituent Assembly on the law on the federal structure of the state. Russia went at full speed to its collapse.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot 1917 of the year

100 anniversary of the February Revolution
What ruined Tsarist Russia?
Nicholas II had no chance of retaining power.?
How Nicholas II abdicated the throne
"Russia plunged into the swamp of a dirty and bloody revolution"
The war for absolute power on the planet
Russian intelligentsia against the "kingdom of darkness"
The myth of the "Jewish Revolution" in Russia
How the Februaryists destroyed the army
How Kerensky became the destroyer of Russia and the Russian army
How the feudalists unleashed a civil war in Russia
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  1. Basil50
    Basil50 29 August 2017 06: 28 New
    11
    Neither documents nor recollections of eyewitnesses of those events will ever bring to the consciousness of fans * crunch of buns *.
    1. Diana Ilyina
      Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 10: 39 New
      13
      Dmitriy hi , good afternoon! What consciousness, what are you talking about ?! They are pursuing quite a deliberate policy on the collapse of Russia from within. Although they are few, they are quite active, have support in the form of degenerates of the Romanov’s house, which, in turn, are financed by well-known special services. So from this point of view, everything is quite purposeful here. The script is registered and run-in many times. And if in Ukraine the line of society’s split was drawn according to Bandera’s legacy, then in Russia the line of split takes place precisely through the civil war, which is now being intensely fired up. Attempts to allegedly reconcile the whites and the reds are something other than attempts to foment interclass and interethnic hatred within the country. Moreover, the attempts at "reconciliation" are so one-sided and wretched that you are simply amazed. After all, if these were real attempts, then for a start they would restore not only the white monuments, but also the red ones. Why not reconcile the monument to Dzerzhinsky in its rightful place as reconciliation ?! Everything will happen exactly as in Ukraine. It’s just that for Russia they’re preparing not one scenario with the thugs of Anal, but they are also preparing the way for monarchist revenge. So in vain do you record our crystal bakers in unconscious amoebas, they act quite consciously.
      1. novel66
        novel66 29 August 2017 11: 55 New
        +7
        Dianochka love hi , and all would have been nothing in the bakers, but it was too painful for them to make a rag of a nation-wide hero. sorry Kornilov (a relative, by the way) failed - an interesting virtuality could have turned out
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 29 August 2017 06: 49 New
    +3
    Thus, the rebellion, which was originally prepared with the participation of Kerensky himself with the aim of establishing "order" in the country and the army, was suppressed.
    ... Right by Gogol ... "I gave birth to you, I will kill you" ...
  3. Shurale
    Shurale 29 August 2017 07: 33 New
    +6
    Thank you very much, it is very important to lay out such historical chronicles so that people know the past of their country.
    Pysy, I would like to read about further events ...
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 30 August 2017 11: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: Shurale
      Thank you very much, it is very important to lay out such historical chronicles so that people know the past of their country.
      Pysy, I would like to read about further events ...

      The chronicle must be consistent with the facts. Kornilov was not arrested, but CAM surrendered on the basis of Kerensky’s order. The commission of the EP fully justified Kornilov.
  4. bober1982
    bober1982 29 August 2017 07: 41 New
    +6
    The article is very blunders, it is simply amazing - such illiteracy.
    During the coup attempt, General Krymov surrendered the command of the 3rd cavalry corps to General Krasnov, and Krymov himself led a separate Petrograd army, and at the time of the attempted rebellion he did not command the corps.
    The personality of General Krymov himself is rather mysterious.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 10: 50 New
      14
      But Samsonov (or the one who writes under his name) does not need objectivity. He needs to create the appearance that the Bolsheviks were supposedly the "saviors of Russia", and for this he needs to pour mud at all who were opposed to the Bolsheviks. And here it is no longer up to historical certainty.
      1. Luga
        Luga 29 August 2017 14: 51 New
        +8
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        But Samsonov (or the one who writes under his name) does not need objectivity. He needs to create the appearance that the Bolsheviks were supposedly the "saviors of Russia", and for this he needs to pour mud at all who were opposed to the Bolsheviks. And here it is no longer up to historical certainty.

        It seems to me that the only idea that the author promotes consistently and with persistence is the idea that the main enemy of Russia is the West with its democratic institutions and European values. So, as far as I can see, only proponents of Russian European integration are pouring mud, to whom the author refers both Kerensky and Kornilov, dividing them into “right” and left “, forgetting that Kornilov had no political program at all, he was guided by only by his own ambitions - to seize upon the supreme power, to become the “savior of Russia,” to go down in history under this title. All this was masked by the idea of ​​restoring “order”, but what would happen after the “order” was put in place, Kornilov did not think.
        So far, little is said about the Bolsheviks and is neutral. I’m even interested as an author
        (or, more likely, a group of authors) will link the "Bolshevik-Jews" who preached the ideas of internationalism and the world revolution with the "Russian superethnos", the ideas of which (the author) are steadily promoting in his other articles.
        As for the historical accuracy of the author, one does not need to be too strict on him, especially since he did not pursue and does not pursue such a goal as enlightenment of the masses. The main thing here is the idea. I wonder how the author will get out in which direction from Russian nationalism of a sort of "Black-Hundred", radically right-wing root, he will turn the Bolsheviks, propagandizing equally radical left-wing ideas. To the right will the Bolsheviks end up or to the left?
        As for the Bolsheviks as "saviors of Russia", although the author did not talk about this, I agree with this thesis. By the beginning of the twentieth century. the Russian monarchy has outlived itself and finally degraded, as a result of which it could not defend itself and was overthrown. Any adventurers such as Kerensky and others like him poured into the vacuum that had created a general mess and led Russia to inevitable disintegration and death as a great power. What is the role of Western democracies in this process is not obvious to me personally, unlike Samsonov. But it was precisely the Bolsheviks who put an end to this debauchery, with a heavy armed hand, with great difficulty, overcoming their own mistakes and errors,
        with blood and tears, they brought order to the country, which, in fact, saved her.
        I understand that you disagree with this thesis, especially with regard to the monarchy, but if you look at the historical picture of the late XIX - early XX centuries. in general, without political prejudice, evaluating the situation as objectively as possible, you will see what I wrote about.
        1. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx 30 August 2017 10: 12 New
          +2
          Well written, balanced, calm, respectful. Respect to you. Many on the forum are very lacking.
          And as for the monarchy, I don’t agree with you either. The monarchy itself has not outlived itself, if you look at the reign of Nicholas 2 with the same calmness, you can see the country's calm and consistent development in all the most important areas, including traditional medicine and education. But the fact that most of the tsar’s relatives were unworthy of being them is your truth.
          1. Luga
            Luga 30 August 2017 11: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: Trapper7
            Respect to you.

            Thank you for your kind words. hi
            Quote: Trapper7
            And as for the monarchy, I don’t agree with you either.

            My opinion is that with the development of society, the monarchy, in principle, is becoming obsolete if it does not become such an “exhibition” institution, such as, for example, the European monarchies. The inheritance of real power - what could be more ridiculous? In those years, more than one Russian Empire turned into a republic, and, pay attention, the states where precisely the monarch’s power was real and not nominal, as in Great Britain, for example, became republics. This suggests, in my opinion, that by the end of the 19th century the institution of the monarchy had outlived itself in principle, and even with such a capable monarch as Nicholas II, the chances were not that of preserving the dynasty, but even preserving the foundations of the state structure of Russia did not have. Sometimes it seems to me, even if it is absurd, that the main "spy" in the country during the reign of Nicholas was he Emperor himself emperor himself, so his actions and main decisions diverged from the interests of the country and the ruling dynasty.
            Yes, under him and his father, Russia developed, but very slowly, slower than the rest of Europe and much slower than it should and could. And this slowness came from the fact that the development of Russia did not go by the will of the sovereign autocrat, but actually contrary to it.
            Persons like Stolypin and Witte (bright and energetic who could save the monarchy) in power met only at critical moments and for a short time - to overcome the crisis itself, and then merged into scrap. Basically, the powers that be in the country were either frank ballast and idiot, or frank thieves under august supervision. You cannot do such things, but live comfortably. The last chance of the monarchy to survive, even the most illusory, was lost, it seems to me, with the elimination of Stolypin.
            And then Rasputin, like a cherry on a cake ... In short, there was no chance.
            1. w70
              w70 22 September 2017 07: 05 New
              0
              But Zhirinovsky thinks differently
  5. bober1982
    bober1982 29 August 2017 08: 29 New
    +5
    The title of the articles (who buried whom) is also ridiculous, one can only guess when these funerals took place, there are many examples, for example, when the terrorist Mrs. Zasulich was acquitted in court and the crowd rejoiced, this was the end of the Empire, but this is just one example, and there were darkness.
  6. IvanTheTerrible
    IvanTheTerrible 29 August 2017 08: 44 New
    +5
    Glory to the true Russian Heroes of Russia, who until the last tried to save her from the Bolshevik yoke. Although they lost, their blessed memory will always live in our hearts!
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 29 August 2017 09: 55 New
      13
      Quote: IvanTheTerrible
      Glory to the true Russian Heroes of Russia, who until the last tried to save her from the Bolshevik yoke.

      Tsarist generals tried to save their dominion over the "cattle". The Bolsheviks liberated peoples from slavery throughout the world. Not when slaves with slave owners will not sit on the same field.
      Eternal damnation to the oppressors of the working people and to all those who defended them and continue to protect them!
      1. IvanTheTerrible
        IvanTheTerrible 29 August 2017 10: 12 New
        +9
        The Bolsheviks liberated peoples from slavery throughout the world.

        Old songs of political leaders about the main thing.
        They took away land and movable property, drove them into collective farms and forced to work for sticks, levied taxes on animals and garden plants - is that freedom?
        They attributed cattle to enterprises and with a ban on changing employers without the consent of superiors - is that freedom?
        Criminal punishments for truancy or theft of spikelets from the field - also freedom?
        Do you know what hutspa is? Khutspa is an extreme degree of arrogance, beyond - when a son kills his parents and asks in court to have mercy on him as an orphan.
        So, your comment is the essence of the worst hutspa.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 29 August 2017 10: 28 New
          11
          Quote: IvanTheTerrible
          Old songs of political leaders about the main thing.

          Well, you are talking nonsense wassat
          Buy a card. Today - how many colonies in the world? And how many were there at the beginning of the last century? So as they say - a fact on the face. The Great October Socialist Revolution brought freedom to all of humanity. Outright slavery was over.
          Shame on slave owners and all those who sympathize with them!
          1. IvanTheTerrible
            IvanTheTerrible 29 August 2017 10: 40 New
            +6

            Somalia in colonial slavery

            Somalia, free from colonial oppression.
            Leftism is truly liberating. It exempts from common sense, from the ability to see the situation and analyze it. Instead, there is only the grunting of memorized slogans: "Down with exploitation!" "From each according to his capabilities, to each according to his needs!" “Let us turn the imperialist war into a civil war!”, “Death to class enemies and wreckers!”
            Ugh, an abomination.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 29 August 2017 10: 47 New
              +3
              Quote: IvanTheTerrible
              Somalia, free from colonial oppression.

              For comparison:



              Guess three times: When were the pictures taken?
              1. IvanTheTerrible
                IvanTheTerrible 29 August 2017 11: 02 New
                +4
                And what do you want to say with these staged photos?
                Here is an example of a photograph of a simple Russian unemployed, the grandson of Red Marshal Budenny Nikolai Chowles, the fourth generation hereditary Soviet proletariat:



                The Russian Federation is such a rich and successful country that a person on unemployment benefits can afford such a lifestyle, because can such a conclusion be drawn from them?
            2. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 10: 48 New
              15
              IvanTheTerrible Today, 10:40 ↑ New
              Somalia in colonial slavery
              Somalia, free from colonial oppression.
              Well, yes, yes ... laughing But do not lay out the pictures of Iraq or Libya before "democratization", and after implementation, you don’t want to lay it out ?! The question is purely rhetorical and it is not necessary to answer it ...
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 10: 59 New
                14
                Madam Ilyina, what does "democratization" have to do with it? North Americans have absolutely no understanding of civilian governance. From the word at all. They sincerely believe that if a country is established in a country where there has been a dictatorship for 40 years and in some regions the tribal system remains free, then they will be truly free and happiness and democracy will come. But this is nonsense. A democratic system and free elections are possible if there is a developed civic identity and civil society. But these institutions, especially in Asian or communist dictatorships, do not appear at the click of a finger, they need to be cultivated for a long time through the educational system, these ideas need time to take root in the public consciousness.
                Colonial administrations understood this, and in their work took into account public thinking and the cultural level of the local population. So to compare the actions of the United States and the colonial empires of Old Europe is not just incorrect, but also pointless.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 11: 10 New
                  13
                  North Americans have absolutely no understanding of civilian governance.
                  Oh, now I’m directly describing myself with laughter ... laughing laughing laughing
                  They sincerely believe that if a country is established in a country where there has been a dictatorship for 40 years and in some districts the tribal system remains free, then they will be truly free and happiness and democracy will come.
                  Those who believe in this nonsense of yours, maybe they think something there. Normal people see how the Amerzos brazenly invade other countries with the goal of plundering them under the guise of democratization of these countries!
                  But these institutions, especially in Asian or communist dictatorships, do not appear at the click of a finger, they need to be cultivated for a long time through the educational system, these ideas need time to take root in the public consciousness.
                  Well, of course, how can a simple aborigine understand that “Amerzosian democracy”, it must be inculcated through training, and training will take place according to Sorros’s textbooks ... And Sorros is so not mercantile and kind that he simply puts it out of his kindness pocket a lot of money ?! laughing laughing laughing Well, straight silver, eat it ...
                  So to compare the actions of the United States and the colonial empires of Old Europe is not just incorrect, but also pointless.
                  Oh how ?! Wow ... Amerzosovo seams new defender appeared ?! However, I always said and wrote above that any monarchist is an Amerzosovsky henchman, lysoblyud and a corrupt six! negative
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 11: 24 New
                    14
                    Madam Ilyina, do you know how to read normally? Or are you pulling out phrases to interpret them for your own sake?
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    Those who believe in this is your nonsense
                    So this is not my nonsense, as you deigned to say, but of North American leaders who believe that democracy can appear after its announcement.
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    about the textbooks of Sorros

                    No "Soros textbooks" are needed here. Americans love to talk about democracy, but they have no idea how to organize the development of society from totalitarianism / authoritarianism. In my comment, I spoke about the inclusion in the school curriculum of the foundations of political science (with a real study of the foundations of the democratic system) and university programs of political science courses, with coverage of the historical development of democratic processes.
                    Democracy, Madame Ilyina, is when the people elect their representatives and leaders at all levels - from local government to the head of state, and the people are able to recall these representatives if they commit improper actions. Such a system operates in Switzerland, Poland, Sweden, Finland. For the effectiveness of such a system, citizens need to treat the state and officials as their employees, and not as celestials. And without broad education, people who lived under totalitarianism or authoritarianism will not be able to change their attitude to the state.
                    And yes, I never defend North Americans. You are mistaken. However, given your exaltation and superemotionality, this is excusable to you.
                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 11: 36 New
                      +9
                      Lieutenant Teterin Today, 11:24 ↑
                      Americans love to talk about democracy, but they have no idea how to organize the development of society from totalitarianism / authoritarianism. In my comment, I spoke about the inclusion in the school curriculum of the foundations of political science (with a real study of the foundations of the democratic system) and university programs of political science courses, with coverage of the historical development of democratic processes.
                      You see, to be honest, I’m just too lazy to refute your nonsense of the patient whole head! Your pathetic attempts to justify the actions of Americans by their ignorance, look wretched and not even funny anymore.
                      And yes, I never defend North Americans. You are mistaken. However, given your exaltation and superemotionality, this is excusable to you.
                      And yet, YES, anyone who advocates or tries to do this, the actions of the Americans, are the ENEMIES of Russia, since the USA was, is and will be our worst and most terrible enemies along with Britain and their sixes, in other words, the so-called collective West!
                      So I'm right, you are an ordinary traitor, a bastard and a henchman of Western puppeteers. I’m only interested in one thing, but who do you think you are, assuming that Russia will lose to the West ?! New Gauleiter ?! I think at best they will give you the role of a policeman, and then our partisans will come and hang you as they hanged all the traitors. However, you yourself have chosen your fate ... Jackal, jackal and death!
                      1. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 12: 02 New
                        15
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        justify the actions of Americans

                        Where did you see the excuse here, you are an amazing person?
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        just too lazy to refute

                        This, Madame Ilyin, is not laziness, but a recognition of the fact that it is impossible to dispute with reality. wink
                        you are an ordinary traitor

                        Are you now an ordinary Russian man who loves Russia and the Russian people called a traitor? One of two things: either you live in your maniamir, divorced from reality, or ... Or you deliberately incite hatred between the Russians, accusing some of betrayal, and others calling for bloody reprisals against fellow citizens. And taking into account the fact that you call all those who disagree with you traitors or bribed, I can only say one thing: a traitor everywhere seems to be cheating, so you only give yourself away with such labels.
                      2. Diana Ilyina
                        Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 15: 26 New
                        +9
                        Lieutenant Teterin Today, 12:02 ↑
                        Are you now an ordinary Russian man who loves Russia and the Russian people called a traitor?
                        Is that you Russian ?! Exactly the same "Russians" fought against the Soviet people under the banner of the ROA and the SS division of the Rhone. I found the same "lover" of Russia and the Russian people ... laughing laughing laughing
            3. hhhhhhh
              hhhhhhh 18 September 2017 09: 44 New
              +1
              Local people were not allowed into beautiful houses. they were not given education. Just exported resources.
              "In this test tube, detergent, Sadam needs to be killed for it."
          2. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 10: 48 New
            12
            Decolonization, dear, began in the World after the Second World War, when, with the support of the United States in the European colonies, the growth of national identity began. And only then the communists came to the former colonies, carrying discord and rivers of blood, as it was, for example, in Cambodia:
            http://rusk.ru/st.php?idar=50991
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 29 August 2017 10: 54 New
              +7
              Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
              Decolonization, dear, began in the World after the Second World War, when with US support in the European colonies began the growth of national identity.

              Made fun of laughing laughing
              The ultimate goal of capitalism is to build a slave-owning civilization throughout the world.
              1. IvanTheTerrible
                IvanTheTerrible 29 August 2017 11: 27 New
                +2
                The ultimate goal of capitalism is to build a slave-owning civilization throughout the world.

                A socialist paradise is a place where everyone is guaranteed employment, free health care, free education, free food, free housing, free clothes, free utilities and only government officials own weapons. And believe it or not, but such a socialist utopia actually exists ... It is called a prison.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 29 August 2017 12: 05 New
                  +6
                  Quote: IvanTheTerrible
                  A socialist paradise is a place where ...

                  You have a perverted idea of ​​building paradise on earth. The parasite differs from the bourgeois only in that the first was born in the wrong family. They are both disgusting to me.
                2. hhhhhhh
                  hhhhhhh 18 September 2017 09: 46 New
                  +1
                  Why weapons when drugs are not sold at school and refugees do not run along the streets?
                  Something for 25 years without the USSR, I did not see any advantages.
                  What is better now compared to the USSR?
              2. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 11: 49 New
                13
                Of course. That's the same thing throughout Europe from Spain to Finland, slaves live. And in the communist DPRK, people, probably voluntarily for the sake of a brighter future, are sent to concentration camps.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 29 August 2017 12: 08 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  That's the same thing throughout Europe from Spain to Finland, slaves live.

                  The brightest example. In France, more than a million slaves came out who did not agree with the will of the master to allow them to adopt children - and so what? The will of the master has won!
                  In the United States, slaves have chosen the wrong thing and what is going on there now?
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  And in the communist DPRK ...

                  What is the name of the system in which power is inherited? That's right - the monarchy. So where does communism?
                  It is you, defending the White Guards who defended the monarchy, that you are calling us to the monarchy on the model of the DDRK ... Fig you!
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 13: 03 New
                    10
                    In France, there were actually demonstrations in support of the government. So there society is not unanimous on many issues. Like in the USA.
                    As for the DPRK - Have you forgotten what ideology the monopoly ruling TPK uses? So North Korea is a communist country with local characteristics. In monarchies, the sovereign obeys the law, and the Kimov family puts themselves above any law.
                    1. hhhhhhh
                      hhhhhhh 18 September 2017 09: 48 New
                      +1
                      If not for sanctions, the DPRK would have lived richer than South Korea.
            2. Diana Ilyina
              Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 11: 00 New
              13
              Lieutenant Teterin Today, 10:48 ↑ New
              when with the support of the United States in the European colonies began the growth of national identity.
              How is it ?! It turns out that the United States acted as the "liberator" of the colonial yoke ?! laughing laughing laughing
              And only then the communists came to the former colonies, bearing discord and rivers of blood
              Well, apparently in Cuba, in Grenada, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam, Libya, Syria and further around the world, it was the communist B-52s that bombed peaceful cities with napalm ?!
              I would say that in your head instead of brains fool , but I’m afraid to be banned for a long time ...!
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 11: 55 New
                10
                Quote: Diana Ilyina
                It turns out that the United States acted as the "liberator"

                Yes. Read tutorials, not campaign materials: http://ukrmap.su/ru-wh11/1317.html
                B-52 bombed Cuba? this is something new in the history of military aviation. Cuba, though Fidel was paired with Che Guevara. Guevara, in general, he personally shot children, but it doesn’t matter to you, right?
                In Korea, probably, CIA agents persuaded Kim to launch an attack on South Korea? And in Vietnam too?
                And hunger in the communist Mozambique, probably, also the agents of the omnipresent State Department committed. And the USSR and China did not interfere in the civil war in Angola, right?
                There are many more such examples. The Communists have much more blood on their hands than the North Americans. However, this fact does not relieve North Americans of responsibility for the crazy actions of the 1990s and 2000s.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 29 August 2017 12: 23 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                  The Communists have much more blood on their hands than the North Americans.

                  Before the pale-faced brother entered the shores of North America, 9 million redskins lived there. Now there are about four hundred left in the reservations ...
                  Yes, and do not confuse the Trotskyist Communists and the Bolshevik Communists. They had completely different goals.
                  1. Koshnitsa
                    Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 12: 33 New
                    +2
                    And how do you distinguish them? Those who eat matzo, I recognize by face?
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 29 August 2017 12: 49 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Koshnitsa
                      And how do you distinguish them? Those who eat matzo, I recognize by face?

                      In principle - it can be so, he is not accurate. Those who build for everyone are Bolsheviks, but those who are only for themselves loved are Trotskyists. It will be more true.
                      1. Koshnitsa
                        Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 14: 35 New
                        +2
                        In short about anything, your classification.
                        Kaganovich Trotskyist? And the countrywoman? And Mehlis?
                  2. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 13: 06 New
                    10
                    Quote: Boris55

                    Yes, and do not confuse the Trotskyist Communists and the Bolshevik Communists. They had completely different goals.

                    In the grades of criminals I do not understand and do not intend. Both of them are the organizers of revolutionary crimes and to the very top in the blood of innocent people.
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 29 August 2017 18: 19 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
                      In the grades of criminals I do not understand and do not intend.

                      Clear. In the name of the revolution, all those who look askance - to the wall. Well done!
                      Who when condemned the Trotskyists and Bolsheviks, having recognized them as criminal and forbade their political activities, except for the fascist regimes? laughing
              2. avva2012
                avva2012 29 August 2017 14: 32 New
                +4
                Diana, what are you proving, and most importantly, to whom? For them, whoever is the boss is right! Not only the colonial system collapsed, but also everything that blooms and smells from the owner. And, you say, monarchists, crispy rolls)))). Here, it is the face of a true patriot's. Porutchiks))))) That's how they fail, stupid.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 14: 46 New
                  +9
                  Alexander hi I absolutely agree with you!
                  “Stirlitz walked the streets of Berlin, but something elusive betrayed him as a Soviet spy. Either the parachute dragged along, or the Budyonovka famously shifted to one side ... laughing "
                  Although comparing this "miracle" fool with Stirlitz, the right word is not appropriate, rather it’s some kind of Krotov negative .
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 29 August 2017 15: 25 New
                    +4
                    Any spots in the sun, or what? Geomagnetic storms? bober1982, justifies joining the ROA (in the first part), and Teterin believes that the United States destroyed the colonial system. Rather, he does not believe, but those who think so, and he repeats. Just some kind of holiday, magic and its exposure)))). In principle, there is nothing surprising. Everything is logical. If it weren’t for the Bolsheviks, they would have taken apart Russia in parts, and so the gentlemen broke off, and not to touch it now, thanks to Beria. Hence the animal hatred, which is transmitted to those who faithfully serve or are ready to serve.
                    1. Diana Ilyina
                      Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 15: 46 New
                      +9
                      Here, in my opinion, there are no longer spots, rather, there are flashes on the Sun with the release of a plasma that burns out the last remains of the brain, though if it was there at all! You noticed that all these, with permission, say “gentlemen,” are ready to justify even the ROA, even Krasnov and Shkuro, and even the devil and the devil, if only they were against the Soviet regime ?! ALL that is the real merit of the Bolsheviks is denied, EVERYTHING is turned upside down and given out as the ultimate truth ?! If they were repressed, then by hundreds of millions and none of them care that, firstly, there were just so many people physically, and secondly, nobody cares about the fact that most of the so-called “repressed” were real criminals! I don’t care about the causes of collectivization, that’s bad and that’s it. And the fact that part of the peasants urgently needed to be turned into workers is of no interest to anyone. The fact that a simple peasant would not voluntarily feed a multi-million army in the Second World War also interests no one. The peasant, by his very nature, will never voluntarily work for either the state or the master, until you drive him with a stick to work, few people care. No, they are only concerned with the fact that they offended a particular person and they do not care about the interests of the state and people, the main thing is “personality” for them, that’s their liberal ideal. The personality is above all and above all the interests of the state, which Mr. Lieutenant, in his own words, “loves” so much.
                      All their lies are visible as God's day. However, I’m occupied by something else, with what fright and “Lieutenant Teterin” and this miracle-udo “IvanTheTerrible” suddenly became “residents” of New Russia ?!
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 29 August 2017 15: 54 New
                        +4
                        And, apparently, the same system as with the flag “born in the USSR” was wanted and chosen. They think that their essence will not be evident. Forgot that they beat it not on the passport ..)))
                      2. Lieutenant Teterin
                        Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 17: 34 New
                        10
                        most of the so-called "repressed" were real criminals!

                        Madame Ilyina, this is not so. Most of the convicts during the years of the Dzhugashvilevsky terror were just not criminals, but civil convicts for political reasons. And this is not my speculation, but information based on the MGB certificate from 1953. http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/3321412.ht
                        ml
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        Peasant by nature fist

                        Cynical slander to the Russian peasantry. During the WWII, the Russian army was provided with food at a high level. Moreover, it was such that the Germans, according to the recollections of the Kaiser soldiers and officers, exchanged bread and other food products from Russian soldiers during periods of "fraternities".
                        Quote: Diana Ilyina
                        identity above all and above all the interests of the state,

                        Yes, a person, his interests, rights and freedoms are more important to me than the state and I value a person more than the state machine. I love my Fatherland, and not the state apparatus, and I believe that the state should serve the interests of citizens, and not vice versa.
                    2. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 29 August 2017 16: 12 New
                      +6
                      he doesn’t have enough brains to even understand that they didn’t destroy anything in the USA, they just replaced the system of direct robbery with a purely economic robbery .. decency is respected, it’s not we who are local ...
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 29 August 2017 16: 51 New
                        +4
                        Hence the genesis of color revolutions themselves, they say, themselves. Ghouls, nonhumans ready to gobble up the whole world. Well, there’s nothing, "remember, brother, how they crushed the elven Mr-z?")))). All will be.
                2. Lieutenant Teterin
                  Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 15: 58 New
                  13
                  You know, judging by the way you are frantically looking for a "master" for your opponents, you don’t even have a thought in your head that a person can think and act of his own free will. However, this is normal for an adherent of the communist idea, because Marxism in all its manifestations deprives a person of freedom of speech and thought. They think for a communist: a) the only true Party, b) the International, c) the Great, Adored, Brilliant, Sun-like and irreplaceable Leader.
                  I feel sorry for you.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 29 August 2017 16: 26 New
                    +4
                    I’m not looking for anything; as you said in our childhood, you yourself will be fired. And attempts to find what the Communists do not have are pathetic attempts, so similar to the ideology of your curators. "The Communists are not free; the party is thinking for them." Very familiar. You, apparently, at one time did not listen to the “German Wave”. The radio station was very evil. They recalled a shepherd from Soviet films about concentration camps. Woof, woof and spray foam with fangs. How, they hated the USSR! So, there, where the communists were, there they resisted the invaders in World War II. Yugoslavia, China, Korea, partly Greece. Where they were not, gentlemen forced the people to lie down and have fun. So it's all about ideology, right? And resistance requires will and reason. So, right? Just why you and beavers like you refuse. Ah, Katz, he says, give up))))))))
                    1. Lieutenant Teterin
                      Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 17: 25 New
                      11
                      Not looking? Oh really? Then why did you so desperately wandered when you were convicted of attributing “masters” to your opponents?
                      And by the way, when speaking of the Resistance movement, you “forgot” about the French Resistance, which fought against the Nazis in Africa and took Paris after the Allies landed. And also you prefer to "forget" about the Polish Army of Craiova, whose underground members sent many Nazis and their henchmen to the Court of God. Why do you forget about them? Is it because for you people who do not share the communist utopia are not worthy of memory?
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 29 August 2017 17: 45 New
                        +2
                        And what is there to remember? French resistance, these are Soviet prisoners of war and Jews. They would not say anything about the Poles. To kill unarmed civilians, the same Jews, and shoot them in the back of the Red Army. You, again, UPA, give an example. Yes, that, I, would have led. One field of berries, also wrestlers with communism.
  7. Curious
    Curious 29 August 2017 08: 44 New
    +4
    Reading the last articles of the author, he thought that his work more and more resembles a song from the movie "Wizards".
    And carry me away and carry me away
    In a ringing snowy distance
    Three white horses, eh, three white horses ...
    And it seems that the author does not know where these white horses will take the plot.
    1. creak
      creak 29 August 2017 09: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: Curious
      Reading the last articles of the author, he thought that his work more and more resembles a song from the movie "Wizards".

      Or the work of widely represented at VO Shirokorada ...
      As for Kerensky, this tragicomic figure very much resembles Gorbachev's “Mineral Secretary”, as they began to call him after the introduction of the Prohibition, Their throwing and inconsistency, an attempt to sit on two chairs. and attempts to outwit everyone - led them both to a logical and inglorious end ...
      It is a pity that at the turning stages of our history at the head of the country were such political pygmies ....
  8. bober1982
    bober1982 29 August 2017 08: 54 New
    +2
    The "conspirators" did not bury the Empire, but themselves, the February betrayal returned as a boomerang. Stupidly, everything turned out and stupidly.
    1. IvanTheTerrible
      IvanTheTerrible 29 August 2017 09: 54 New
      +4
      Karma is an evil bastard, as they say.
      Well, we were studied by the "Western partners" - they found and used the worst Russian features (sick vanity, pride, inability to compromise) to overthrow the legitimate tsarist government, with the collapse of which the whole system went wrong. But to the honor of the Russian “Februaryists” - until the very last they tried to take control of the situation and fix everything, it was only too late - the society that was sick of revolutionary propaganda had already fallen out of reality and lived in a revolutionary alluring world with “freedom, equality and fraternity”, "self-determination of peoples" and "a world without annexations and indemnities."
      1. bober1982
        bober1982 29 August 2017 10: 13 New
        +3
        There is an opinion that all this Kornilov fuss is nothing more than a spectacle, after this "rebellion" the army was finally finished off, power could be taken with bare hands, which subsequently happened.
        1. Dart2027
          Dart2027 29 August 2017 10: 27 New
          +1
          Quote: bober1982
          Kornilov fuss is nothing more than a performance

          Do you mean that Kornilov began to act in agreement with Kerensky, who simply deceived him? It is quite possible, recalls the story of the State Emergency Committee.
          1. bober1982
            bober1982 29 August 2017 10: 35 New
            +1
            Exactly, the GKChP is of a kind, although Kornilov could hardly decide and understand with his peasant mind, in any case, he did not fraternize with the Cadets, Kerensky, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Octobrists and other publics. Unlike Alekseev, Krymov and many other generals.
  9. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 10: 44 New
    15
    It wasn’t the February Empire that killed the Russian empire. Their fault is great, but before the Bolshevik coup, Russia still had a chance, through the approval of the Constituent Assembly of the government of popular trust, to get out of chaos and restore order and legality throughout the country, but ... at one "wonderful" moment the Bolsheviks decided to fulfill their old dream and to seize power - not for the sake of the people and not for the sake of Russia, but for the sake of their crazy utopian ideas. And then Russia also died - its laws were replaced by semi-literate "decrees", its elite - got into shooting cellars, the peasants received collective farm slavery, the workers instead of the esteemed factories - "laws" on criminal prosecution for being late.
    1. Curious
      Curious 29 August 2017 11: 00 New
      +3
      Your entire commentary can be replaced with one line from the Gospel of Mark (ch. 16, v. 16): "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 12: 05 New
        11
        This is not just faith, but a knowledge of the history of their Fatherland. Zemsky Sobor saved Russia in the years of the first Troubles. Its counterpart was able to do the same in the second years.
        1. Curious
          Curious 29 August 2017 12: 54 New
          +4
          What kind of cathedral do you mean - 1607, 1611, 1613, 1614, 1615, 1616, 1617, 1618.
          1. Lieutenant Teterin
            Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 13: 40 New
            10
            1613. On which the consequences of the dynastic crisis were eliminated
            1. Curious
              Curious 29 August 2017 14: 06 New
              +6
              Wait. How to fix it? A gang of Romanovs usurped the throne in a criminal way, pulling it out from under the decrepit Rurikovich and appropriating itself, without any rights, for 400 years. Then, a century and a half later, the hired Germans rewrote pre-Domanovian history, obliterating the people's great achievements of the previous kings and discrediting their activities.
              So what is it that turns out, both came and left? And the Bolsheviks in 1917 appeared in the Roles of the Romanovs in 1613? And exactly repeated their methods?
              1. Lieutenant Teterin
                Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 15: 30 New
                12
                Well, if you have a dynasty chosen by the people - this is a "gang", and the Germans wrote the story ... then there is no more sense in talking with you than in communicating with adherents of the Fomenko-Nosovsky sect.
                1. Diana Ilyina
                  Diana Ilyina 29 August 2017 16: 07 New
                  10
                  Lieutenant Teterin Today, 15:30 ↑
                  Well, if you have a dynasty chosen by the people - this is a "gang"
                  What, what, what kind of people ?! Something I don’t remember that in 1613 there would be a popular referendum on the election of Romanov to the throne of all Russia ... laughing laughing laughing Ah, well, yes, how did I forget, you only rank the boyars and princes among the people, the rest are cattle-educated, and therefore not worthy, right ?!

                  And let you know Mr. "Russian" that your adored Romanovs ended on Elizaveta Petrovna! Here's what your favorite pequidia says about this: "The direct branch of the Romanov clan on the all-Russian throne was cut short after the death of Empress Elizabeth Petrovna; from January 5, 1762, the imperial throne passed along the female line to the Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov dynasty, the son of Princess Anna Petrovna and the Duke Karl-Friedrich of Holstein-Gottorp, their son Karl Peter Ulrich Holstein-Gottorporsky III (future emperor) recognized as a member of the imperial House of Romanov. Thus, according to the genealogical rules, the imperial clan (dynasty) is called Holstein-Gottorp-Romanovskaya (Holstein-Gottorp-Romanovskaya dynasty) [3]."
                  So continue to continue licking knees prone to the grand-ass back of the Holstein-Gottorp scum, it’s right for you, just like a scoundrel who is all right! laughing tongue
                  1. Lieutenant Teterin
                    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 18: 03 New
                    12
                    Ms. Ilyina, please teach your native history more carefully. At Zemsky Sobors were represented all estates, including peasants. However, as I managed to notice, you successfully "forget" the facts that do not fit your picture of the world.
                    Quote: Diana Ilyina
                    The Romanovs ended on Elizaveta Petrovna!

                    In fact, your comment in this part is strikingly reminiscent of the ravings of neo-Nazis. Those like to calculate the "blood percentage" in people, and you are attached to the surname. What is the difference, what does the name of the ruling Dynasty sound if the Emperors and heirs are brought up in Russian culture? Alexander III so generally stated to the teacher of his children that "I need normal Russian children." During the WWII, the Imperial family gave the Winter Palace to the hospital, and not princes and barons, but ordinary soldiers and officers got into this hospital. The empress and the princes assisted the surgeons and bandaged the wounds that were being healed. Wounds. Do it yourself. Ordinary Russian guys called up for war. And the prince of imperial blood, Oleg Konstantinovich Romanov, was mortally wounded in a battle with the Germans, the squadron of the Life Hussar command.
                    Count Vladimir Paley, the grandson of Alexander II, fought in another hussar regiment. Dmitry Pavlovich Romanov fought in the Life Guard cavalry regiment.
                    Alexander Ivanovich Iskander, great-grandson of Nicholas I - officer of the Life Guards of the Cuirassier Regiment.
                    Prince of imperial blood Konstantin Konstantinovich, another great-grandson of Nicholas I - captain of the Life Guards Izmailovsky Regiment.
                    So what are you talking about, does spelling the surname matter when the members of the ruling Dynasty would be Russian people in spirit and culture and in the years of trials for the Motherland devoted themselves to serving the people and the Fatherland?
                2. Curious
                  Curious 29 August 2017 17: 57 New
                  +4
                  Lieutenant. I am far from Fomenkovschina and cited the thesis of the “Romanov gang” as an example of the point of view of a large group of “guardians and experts on the history of the Fatherland”, for whom Mikhail Romanov is the same as Vladimir Ulyanov for you. A kind of "bakers" of the previous convocation.
                  But when you talk about the nationwide election of the king in 1613, it becomes clear that you are studying history on the principle of "blessed is he who believes."
              2. avva2012
                avva2012 29 August 2017 15: 30 New
                +5
                It looks like Victor Nikolayevich! Here, only, in 70 years, they have done incomparably more for the country than the Romanoffs for 400.
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 29 August 2017 17: 30 New
                  +2
                  Quote: avva2012
                  than the Romanoffs for 400.

                  Why for 400 years? This is the second such comment about 400 years. Learn to count.
                  1. avva2012
                    avva2012 29 August 2017 18: 12 New
                    +2
                    Yes, I remember, in what year, I celebrated the centenary. And the king the priest with the queen mother in a la old clothes in the photograph. The tear did not break, but impressive, I agree. The comment was in the sense that they would be given at least another hundred years, at least two hundred, the same. Outwardly beautiful, but empty inside.
                    1. bober1982
                      bober1982 29 August 2017 18: 20 New
                      +2
                      Learned how to get out.
                      1. avva2012
                        avva2012 30 August 2017 04: 20 New
                        +1
                        And what is the fundamental difference? The meaning of the comment will change from the fact that a hundred years have been added? "Here, just for 70 years they did incomparably more for the countrythan the Romanoffs for "...., and then add 100,200,300, do not add.
                  2. Curious
                    Curious 29 August 2017 18: 52 New
                    +2
                    Beaver! I will not get out, this is my mistake. Just what does it change in essence? Or you, as a policeman from a joke ...
                    1. bober1982
                      bober1982 29 August 2017 18: 56 New
                      +3
                      But I didn’t point you to it, although of course I immediately noticed, but when it was repeated by another commentator, this was already too much.
                      Quote: Curious
                      this is my mistake.

                      This is your typo, not a mistake, and therefore did not indicate. You do not get out, it says a lot, arouses respect.
  10. Kalinvagen
    Kalinvagen 29 August 2017 12: 29 New
    +7
    "And the Schubert waltzes and the crunch of French rolls ..."
    Oh, prastinashasudar)
    Royal lackeys raised their heads. Would all be counts and princes? Would nobody work in the field from morning to death? =)
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 12: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: Kalinvagen
      In the field from morning to death

      Starvation deaths? like on a collective farm, this is on the Soviet side ...
      1. Kalinvagen
        Kalinvagen 29 August 2017 12: 36 New
        +7
        Yes, yes, everything on the collective farms died out, by 91, not a single village was left on the map.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 12: 43 New
          +1
          Well, not all, but many died in the same Kuban, in the Kuban, Kalinvagen, from hunger!
        2. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx 30 August 2017 10: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Kalinvagen
          Yes, yes, everything on the collective farms died out, by 91, not a single village was left on the map.

          Nothing funny. Village degradation in the USSR proceeded at a record pace - people from villages simply fled. I write, knowing the essence, my mother is a teacher in a rural school, and if in the 60 and 70 in the school there were two or three parallel classes, then at the end of the 80 they hardly recruited.
          1. Pancir026
            Pancir026 30 August 2017 11: 01 New
            +1
            Quote: Trapper7
            I write, knowing the essence, my mother is a teacher in a rural school, and if in the 60 and 70 in the school there were two or three parallel classes, then at the end of the 80 they hardly recruited.

            You don’t know anything — go to the villages now, there aren’t any others, and those that are half depopulated, except that the mass of rural schools are simply closed.
            1. Trapperxnumx
              Trapperxnumx 30 August 2017 13: 31 New
              0
              Quote: Pancir026
              Quote: Trapper7
              I write, knowing the essence, my mother is a teacher in a rural school, and if in the 60 and 70 in the school there were two or three parallel classes, then at the end of the 80 they hardly recruited.

              You don’t know anything — go to the villages now, there aren’t any others, and those that are half depopulated, except that the mass of rural schools are simply closed.

              I apologize, but this, as I noticed, is one of the main features of some commentators. After all, where did the commenting begin?
              "The royal lackeys raised their heads. Would everyone become counts and princes? In the field would no one work from morning to death? =)"

              what was the answer
              Starvation deaths? like on a collective farm, this is on the Soviet side ...

              that is, the comparison went to the empire and the USSR, but you are stubbornly drawn to the modern world, although NOBODY sings a hosiery and glorifies the current realities, neither the monarchists nor the communists. So well, everything throws you so at "go today and see" ?. I go, I know, I understand.
              1. Pancir026
                Pancir026 30 August 2017 15: 13 New
                0
                Quote: Trapper7
                that is, the comparison went to the empire and the USSR, but you are stubbornly drawn to the modern world, although NOBODY sings hosnas and glorifies the current realities, neither the monarchists nor the communists. So well, everything throws you so at "go today and see" ?.

                But what about you, stick about the past. So everything is bad there. But it is worth mentioning modern realities. How does everything immediately become unclear to you? Why not?
                You write that
                Quote: Trapper7
                I go, I know, I understand.

                And? Do you really not see the reality in which the village is dying out?
                It is customary to swear in some words the past with the last words, inventing all kinds of nonsense, but why in that past, in the village-school and kindergarten. Club and clinic did take place to be. And today, NO?
                Why in the realities of today, it remains only for example with Grudinin, on the collective farm named after Lenin. But not a single modern nouveau riche latifundist has it?
                Quote: Trapper7
                what was the answer
                Starvation deaths? like on a collective farm, this is on the Soviet side ...

                Twenty-five again .. in the USSR there were three cases of famine, in the tsarist empire EVERY year, so what are you talking about again. With the notorious curses on collective farms. Without which you still won’t live? "We, adults, if we are not crazy, one would seem to understand where the hunger of the people comes from. First of all, he - and every man knows that - he
                1) from the shortage of land, because half of the land is from landowners and merchants who trade both land and bread.
                2) from factories and plants with those laws under which the capitalist is fenced, but the worker is not protected.
                3) from vodka, which is the main income of the state and to which the people have been accustomed for centuries.
                4) from the soldiery who selects the best people from him in the best time and corrupts them.
                5) from officials who oppress the people.
                6) from taxes.
                7) from ignorance in which government and church schools consciously support it.

                The farther inland Bogoroditsky district and closer to Efremovsky, the worse and worse the situation ... "https://masterok.livejournal.com/3395855
                .html
                There was an article on the VO website, https://topwar.ru/23913-kak-zhilos-krestyanam-vc
                arskoy-rossii-analitika-i-fakty.html all the haters were marked there .. are you with them? After all, you were noted there too.
                Is it not in vain that the current rulers have become preoccupied with the question of the cooperation of the so-called farmers? Do not understand why and why so, and not otherwise?
                Are you sure that since 1941, if a fist-sole-man-country remained in the country?
                So why are you all spitting in the past, if in the present you and you like cannot demonstrate anything worthwhile?
                Forced to repeat for you - "waxa February 14, 2013 11:46 ↑
                Read about the village of Bunina - not a dissident and against the Soviet regime.
                Better yet, open the Russia encyclopedia of the pre-revolutionary publication and look at the statistics, compare with the data of the late thirties of the 20th century. The grain yield in Russia was at the level of natural soil fertility. Therefore, in Russia, famines occurred with enviable regularity (once every 10-15 years). By citing examples and basing only on them, one can prove anything. But a new fact remains - after the reforms of liberals and fans of tsarist Russia in the 90s, children in many cities did not even get a cup of milk.
                Debilitation has reached the level of members of the Government. Mr. Dvorkovich recently stated that Russia can feed the whole of Europe, HOW RUSSIA HAS FEEDED UNTIL 17 (Encore!). "
                1. Trapperxnumx
                  Trapperxnumx 31 August 2017 16: 54 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Pancir026
                  So why are you all spitting in the past, if in the present you and you like cannot demonstrate anything worthwhile?

                  You do not confuse me with anyone? And that’s what I’ve written about repeatedly. You like to spit on the empire, but when you start talking about the shortcomings of the Soviet system, you immediately switch to today's time. You either don’t hear me or just turn on the fool. Where do I defend the liberal government of 90's? right nowhere. Where do monarchists defend 90's liberals? right, also nowhere, but you stubbornly switch to 90, completely forgetting WHO brought all these people to power back in the 80 years.
                  I take my leave.
                  1. Pancir026
                    Pancir026 2 September 2017 09: 58 New
                    0
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    . You like to spit on an empire

                    Are you talking about yourself by replacing the words -SSSR with RI? You are clearly confusing something, unlike you, for me, the history of Russia is continuous, outside the socio-economic formation in which it is currently located.
                    Quote: Trapper7
                    Where do monarchists defend liberals of the 90s? right, also nowhere, but you stubbornly switch to the 90s completely forgetting who brought all these people into power back in the 80s.

                    I stubbornly remember WHO, WHY, and HOW. And there is no need to flail around the embarrassing question of who destroyed the country and who surfaced in this foam, from liberals of various stripes, to some operetta monarchists.
                    Bow further.
  11. Altona
    Altona 29 August 2017 12: 47 New
    +5
    Quote: novel xnumx
    sorry Kornilov (a relative, by the way) failed - an interesting virtuality could have turned out

    ------------------------------------
    I read the article and remembered the GKChP, just one to one. Organized with the participation of Gorbachev, Gorbachev himself abandoned his brainchild, as a result, the government began to flow to Yeltsin and his (Yeltsin) position was strengthened.
  12. Altona
    Altona 29 August 2017 12: 50 New
    +5
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    The constituent assembly of the government of national trust to get out of chaos and restore order and legality throughout the country

    ----------------------------
    Ok, then what? The monarchy was abolished, the nobility too. Where will the epaulettes sparkle, Lieutenant? And what about the peasants? They already have your "patrimonial estates" unnecessarily. If you would like the Constituent Assembly to maintain some kind of status quo, then this would be just removing the valve from the system, it would still explode.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 12: 54 New
      +2
      In Asian Russia, 100% of arable land belonged to peasant societies
      In European Russia, 89% are peasant societies.
      Well?
      Where is the need for redistribution of landlords? He could not really save anyone.
      Only the colonization of the outskirts, only drank the natives, as in 1916 in Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan.
    2. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 13: 10 New
      13
      The monarchy and estates were abolished by the Bolsheviks. Learn the story. And for me it is not epaulettes and estates that matter, but the calm development of my Fatherland and the well-being of the people.
      1. Pancir026
        Pancir026 30 August 2017 15: 18 New
        0
        Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
        The monarchy and estates were abolished by the Bolsheviks.

        Lieutenant, do not comme il faut to lie "noble."
        The monarchy was demolished by the February people, including members of the royal family to all Black Hundreds, and the abolition of the estates ... The decree on the destruction of estates and civil ranks is a decree approved by the Central Executive Committee of the Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies in a meeting on November 10 (23), 1917 and approved by the Council of People's Commissars on November 11 (24), 1917. Published on November 12 (25), 1917 in the Newspaper of the Provisional Worker and Peasant Government and Izvestia [1], December 8 (21), 1917 - in the Collection of Legalizations and Orders of the Worker and Peasant Government [2]. The decree contained a provision (Article 7) on the entry into force “from the day of its publication”.

        The decree was intended to abolish estates and class legal instruments - the ranks, titles and civil ranks of the Russian Empire in Soviet Russia, to introduce legal equality for all citizens of the new state.
        Even the notorious Wikipedia, for elementary school students, shows why this is done: “abolish the estates and estate legal instruments - titles, titles and civil ranks of the Russian Empire in Soviet Russia, introduce legal equality for all citizens of the new state.” Are you afraid of this again?
  13. Altona
    Altona 29 August 2017 12: 52 New
    +4
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    Zemsky Sobor saved Russia in the years of the first Troubles.

    ----------------------------
    He did not save anything, peasant uprisings took place regularly. Suvorov himself had to pacify Emelk Pugachev.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 13: 14 New
      14
      Excuse me, have you opened a history textbook long ago? Pugachev is the second half of the 18th century, and the collapse of the Time of Troubles and foreign invasion is the beginning of the 17th century.
  14. Altona
    Altona 29 August 2017 13: 11 New
    +4
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    Well?
    Where is the need for redistribution of landlords? He could not really save anyone.

    ---------------------------
    The same thing happened with the rapid growth of the Russian population, when an increasing population was forced to use the same land area. And this is not about the appropriateness, inappropriateness of the division of lands, but in general about the breakdown of all state mechanisms and the impossibility of their further action.
  15. The comment was deleted.
    1. Lieutenant Teterin
      Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 13: 48 New
      13
      Firstly, do not be rude. VO is a civilized forum. Secondly, do not overdo it with ignorance.
      http://www.hist.msu.ru/ER/Etext/DEKRET/soslov.htm
      "Decree" on the abolition of estates.
      The RSFSR was declared a republic by a resolution of the Congress of Soviets.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. avva2012
        avva2012 29 August 2017 15: 45 New
        +4
        In September 1917, Russia was declared a republic, i.e., it was not the Soviets that did it. The RSFSR, judging by the name, was a republic, it did not have to be declared. It was stated that the new state is a socialist republic, which distinguished the country from the rest of the "republics".
  16. Altona
    Altona 29 August 2017 13: 18 New
    +7
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    Excuse me, have you opened a history textbook long ago? Pugachev is the second half of the 18th century, and the collapse of the Time of Troubles and foreign invasion is the beginning of the 17th century.

    ------------------------------
    I know when what happened. I remind you that the rule of the Romanov dynasty was not a complete deanery and pacification, and there was no "well-being of the people" there, as you are trying to prove here. I wrote that they "happened regularly", and you are trying to troll me by clinging to one phrase. Go better, wash your horse, it stinks impossible.
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 29 August 2017 14: 05 New
      +6
      Yes, he rides a horse just like he wears his epaulettes ... purely fake ... well, at least he doesn’t call himself a savior of the fatherland .. until ...
    2. Trapperxnumx
      Trapperxnumx 30 August 2017 11: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Altona
      and there was no "well-being of the people" there as you are trying to prove

      nowhere did he see him affirm the welfare of the people under the king. But it’s better to have a calm and consistent development of the country than a sharp scrapping of everything and everything with the ensuing civil war, the flight of many, many, the search for real and imaginary enemies with a tear in society for many years (which we see today)
  17. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 14: 39 New
    +3
    Quote: Altona
    I wrote that "happened regularly",

    This is more talk, in the 19th century there was quite silence ...
  18. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 29 August 2017 14: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Boris55

    Yes, and do not confuse the Trotskyist Communists and the Bolshevik Communists. They had completely different goals.

    But were the Trotskyists not Bolsheviks?
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 15: 42 New
      +2
      but such a question, comrades leftist, if a person kills the Trotskyists, that’s good, right? and if he does it en masse, can you name a street in his honor?
  19. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 15: 39 New
    16
    Diana Ilyina,
    Yes, I am a Russian person, Russian in flesh and spirit, whether you like it or not. And you, judging by your words, are a Soviet man, which, in principle, explains both your hatred of imperial Russia and the fact that you took the word Russian in quotation marks in your comment.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 29 August 2017 15: 59 New
      +4
      A training manual, Mr. Porutchiks, as in Ukraine. Divide people into Soviet and not. There, Ukrainians, here, like you, Russian. The ears of the photographer, as always, are visible in the photograph.
      1. Lieutenant Teterin
        Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 18: 21 New
        11
        Tell me, do you write down all the facts that are not pleasing to you in the "manuals"?
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 30 August 2017 04: 44 New
          0
          No, only those that do not correspond to the views of the opponent. You imagine yourself as a "monarchist" and suddenly used, as an example, the United States. The "lamp of democracy", a fighter against colonialism, is the United States for another category, while citizens, "liberals." Monarchist and liberal ideas cannot be combined in the views of one and the same person. And in the training manual, they can.
          In Ukraine, and not only, the division into those who are “Soviet” and not exists in reality, and is bearing fruit. Obviously, they themselves did not come up with, as well as the "revolution of hydanny". Do you want it there, I do not.
  20. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 29 August 2017 16: 08 New
    +4
    Quote: avva2012
    A training manual, Mr. Porutchiks, as in Ukraine. Divide people into Soviet and not. There, Ukrainians, here, like you, Russian. The ears of the photographer, as always, are visible in the photograph.

    And when people by origin are divided, when into bourgeoisie and proletarians, “isklatators” and “being paid for”, into the poor, “fists” and “podkulakniks”, when in soldiers social strife and base instincts are deliberately incited, like all kinds of socialists in the army in 1917, etc. etc., then this is a section on manuals, the photographer’s ears, or something else?
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 29 August 2017 16: 21 New
      +6
      I would recommend you read what the commander-in-chief of the Italian troops wrote about his defeats on the Isonzo River. And as the German generals also wrote that they did not win the First World War only because of traitors in the Reichstag and agitators ... everyone blames the hostile propagandists ... really there did the Bolsheviks ruin the army ??? or maybe it’s simpler — a bayonet to the earth — who the hell did ordinary people need this massacre of? seriously think that the first world war among the people was a war for the faith of the tsar and the fatherland ?? and before it the Russian-Japanese-mediocre lost, people also needed? here you have the ears of the photographer ..
      1. Dart2027
        Dart2027 29 August 2017 16: 59 New
        +2
        Quote: Long in stock.
        German generals also wrote that they did not win World War I only because of traitors in the Reichstag and agitators

        In WWII, they wrote about the same thing.
        Quote: Long in stock.
        Russian-Japanese -differently lost

        With losses, nuclear weapons are twice as large as radiation sources.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 29 August 2017 17: 06 New
          +3
          excellent. and for the sake of war they are conceived for the sake of small losses ... and I thought that the tasks set would be fulfilled. Thank you so that my eyes were opened to me ... but I personally have a big request for you-try now and never to occupy leading positions in the army . And in any. And yes in the Second World then? wow ... what was stopping the stupid Hitler, I remember this. that General Frost won too, was it ... was it when they were ranked among the agitators ?? I probably missed something ...
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 29 August 2017 17: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: Long in stock.
            but I thought that I would fulfill the tasks assigned. Thank you for opening my eyes to

            Firstly, when the victory cost the enemy twice as big losses, then talking about losing as a "mediocre" is somewhat inappropriate.
            Secondly, the question is whether Japan would have won if it had not been for the turmoil in RI itself.
            Quote: Long in stock.
            this is when they are ranked among the agitators ?? I guess I missed something

            Missed the fact that in both cases the Germans for some reason did not win.
            But I personally have a big request for you - try nowhere and never occupy leading positions in the army. And in any.
            1. long in stock.
              long in stock. 29 August 2017 17: 45 New
              +1
              the victory cost the enemy in the fulfillment of the task — Russia lost the territory our fleet was defeated in Japan. The main factor is victory. Are you troubled and say that the Japanese are to blame? Or maybe those who allowed it are guilty? Does this mean the turmoil of the fleet drowned .. And about the army- do you seriously think that having lost even half as many soldiers, but having lost the war you won it ?? it was a rout. if you believe that Norway defeated the Germans in the Second World War .. bring her losses lower ...
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 29 August 2017 21: 06 New
                0
                Quote: Long in stock.
                Troubles say, and that the Japanese are guilty? Or maybe those who allowed it are guilty?

                Or maybe those who started it are to blame?
                Quote: Long in stock.
                Do you seriously think that having lost even half as many soldiers, but having lost the war, you won it?

                Did we lose her?
                Quote: Dart2027
                the question is whether Japan would have won if it had not been for the turmoil in RI itself.
                Simply put, the war lasted another year and who would have won then? The nuclear resources were at the limit, in contrast to the resources of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                However, you are not talking about the "shame". Already good.
                1. long in stock.
                  long in stock. 29 August 2017 23: 59 New
                  +2
                  and who started it? Probably the Bolsheviks .. and of course we won it otherwise 7a now about the balance of forces and losses, we had 500 thousand. Japanese 300. permanent losses we have-52500. Japanese-8600. 2 times say ... and the Japanese had to storm the fortress. we lost the fleet lost the fortress with a naval base and the brand new port distant. well, half the Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands. a brilliant victory. the war lasted another year .. this is an alternative story. interesting site But it has nothing to do with reality. Well, so the troubles are to blame ... only the troubles in my head ..
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 30 August 2017 09: 12 New
                    0
                    Quote: Long in stock.
                    and who started it?

                    Uh ... Who attacked whom?
                    Quote: Long in stock.
                    irretrievable losses we have-52500. the Japanese-8600. 2 times say

                    The data on the results of the sanitary-statistical study published in 1914 show that the total losses of those killed, who died from wounds, diseases and suddenly in the Russian and Japanese armies amounted to [87]:
                    Table 29 Army of all killed, died of wounds, diseases and suddenly
                    Russian - 44441
                    Japanese 86004el
                    http://lib.ru/MEMUARY/1939-1945/KRIWOSHEEW/poteri
                    .txt # w01.htm-005
                    Quote: Long in stock.
                    and the war lasted another year .. this is an alternative story

                    In fact, there is an interesting book (Japanese) in which it is explicitly stated (with links to reports and letters of the then Japanese generals) that the war would have continued and the nuclear resources would have simply run out of resources.
                    http://historylib.org/historybooks/Syumpey--Okamo
                    to_YAponskaya-oligarkhiya-v-Russko-yaponskoy-voyn
                    e/
                    1. long in stock.
                      long in stock. 30 August 2017 09: 20 New
                      0
                      I think that our regular friends would have thrown resources to them. About the losses, the data are average. According to the research, the numbers are from 40 to 60 thousand. The fact is simple, we had more strength. They relied on a powerful fortified area, but lost. Absolutely not clear our superiority in cavalry both in quantity and in quality.
                      1. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 30 August 2017 18: 09 New
                        0
                        Quote: Long in stock.
                        I think that our regular friends would have thrown them resources

                        And they did it anyway. The fact that Japan has not shared the fate of other countries in the region is thought-provoking. But they wouldn’t fight openly for it - everyone was preparing for the WWII and it was undesirable to quarrel with RI.
                        Quote: Long in stock.
                        data are average. According to research, numbers from 40 to 60 thousand are called

                        I cited specific figures from an official source.
                        Quote: Long in stock.
                        it’s completely incomprehensible to not use our advantage

                        Kuropatkin was a staff officer, not a commander - these are just different things that require different characters.
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 29 August 2017 16: 35 New
      +3
      Something other. When about three percent have everything, and the rest, as you have to, is that? And, sir, master of dreams, read above, there yours is all there, they wrote it. And about the socialists, and who destroyed what, and also they all answered. Do not clog the air.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 17: 01 New
        +2
        This is the norm. Now in Russia everyone has less than 1 percent.
  21. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 29 August 2017 16: 34 New
    +2
    Quote: long in stock.
    I would recommend you read what the commander-in-chief of the Italian troops wrote about their defeats on the Isonzo River. And as the German generals also wrote that they did not win the First World War only because of traitors in the Reichstag and agitators ... everyone blames the hostile propagandists .. really there did the Bolsheviks ruin the army ??? or maybe it’s easier — a bayonet to the earth — who the hell did ordinary people need this massacre of? and how strange, it turned out to be needed just by the noble generals and the factory owners — the bourgeoisie. have you tried to think in that vein?

    They forgot to remember the French, for whom, in the 17th, problems with the army also began, similar to ours, but they were great, they solved the problem radically by shooting the bayonet-lovers before the formation and other cruelties. In our Great Patriotic War, the detachment detachments were engaged in exactly the same thing, and in the PMV Kornilov was about to similarly plan to cure the army, but did not have time, unfortunately.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 29 August 2017 17: 02 New
      +2
      Do not mess with garbage, another lover of ROA. Grandfathers who participated in the Second World War, do not compare with Ami's paddling pool, sorry, French. If, you’re stuck at the movie level, “Disbat”, then, believe and check, this is not so. By the way, a lover of not only ROA, but also executions, how do you read about them or have a live idea?
  22. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 16: 52 New
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    but in general about the breakdown of all state mechanisms and the impossibility of their further actions.

    So do not break them, but fix the broken. seized land-flogging and fine. It's very simple.
  23. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 16: 57 New
    +4
    Quote: Long in stock.
    Do you seriously think that the first world war among the people was a war for the faith of the tsar and the fatherland ?? and before it, the Russian-Japanese - mediocre lost, also needed people?

    Exactly so, it was a war for the Motherland and the Nation and for living space. Russian Manchuria is a fertile land for agriculture, Russian peasants suffering from low land could be resettled there.
    This war was just for the whole nation, just like the WWII, when Germany and Turkey attacked AB from Russia.
    For example, your ancestors could get a lot of land on new lands, as my ancestors received for service, but first you had to withstand and break the backbone of those peoples who were enemies and did not want to give our land to my ancestors. It's very simple.
  24. long in stock.
    long in stock. 29 August 2017 17: 01 New
    +2
    avva2012,
    it’s so convenient, after all, it’s not us ourselves. It’s democracy!
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 17: 10 New
      +3
      But why did Stalin when the famine began in the country after the war, sent food to the fascists, and his people died in 46-47, such a policy is not clear to anyone, it is inhuman.
      Let others die better, and my people will live.
  25. Lieutenant Teterin
    Lieutenant Teterin 29 August 2017 18: 20 New
    14
    avva2012,
    Please be objective. Of the more than one hundred thousand members of the Resistance Movement, Soviet prisoners of war amounted to 3 thousand people.
    And about the Poles - it's you in vain. The same Craiov Army sent a lot of SS men to the next world, and the Warsaw uprising is also largely in the hands of it. And the Poles also fought with gangsters from the UPA, so you should not treat them with such neglect.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 30 August 2017 05: 19 New
      +2
      1. They fought with the UPA bandits, but not even they, but the local self-defense units. But AK was doing the same thing as the UPA, only to the Ukrainian population. The same atrocities against civilians. Read the story of the Volyn massacre, see photos.
      2. “Standing with arms at your feet” is not AK's slogan?
      3. AK counts the massacres of Jews in the Polish territories, you did not know about this?
      4. I did not add in that comment another category of citizens, communists and Spaniards-internationalists. As for the French resistance, information on the Internet and not only the sea. How did they resist and from what year. As an example, no. ("from July 1940 to May 1945 on the side of the anti-Hitler coalition, 23-45 thousand died, and at least 83 thousand died on the other side of the front," "France sent from 140 to 180 thousand to the Soviet-German front"; "significant part of the French army after the surrender of 25 on June 1940 of the year was neither disarmed by the Germans nor annexed to the Wehrmacht, but under its own banners actively participated in the hostilities against the Anglo-American troops, its own partisans and detachments of General de Gaulle ";" When historians tried to conduct sociolo An analysis of the resistance, it turned out that in only one partisan detachment in the Upper Savoy department of the 40 fighters there were 11 Communists and sympathizers and 7 Yugoslav emigrants, and 35 of the most militant partisan detachments consisted almost exclusively of Soviet prisoners of war! , not related to the Communists, emigrants, captured Red Army soldiers and driven from the USSR, they were only considered underground, but in reality they were waiting for the weather or actively worked for the Germans. "

      Parisians are met by Nazi troops.
      5. The Warsaw uprising was inspired by the "London government", was completely unprepared and led to numerous civilian casualties. Its organization is more in the negative than in the plus.
      6. About the SS men whom they sent to the other world, see item No. 2 or it is necessary to give real facts, and not one or two cases.
  26. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 29 August 2017 21: 34 New
    +3
    Quote: avva2012
    Do not mess with garbage, another lover of ROA. Grandfathers who participated in the Second World War, do not compare with Ami's paddling pool, sorry, French. If, you’re stuck at the movie level, “Disbat”, then, believe and check, this is not so. By the way, a lover of not only ROA, but also executions, how do you read about them or have a live idea?

    And why it’s not worth comparing the French during WWI and Soviet times of WWII, we still will and will compare, because the same order 270 has something in common with the most brutal measures to pacify the French army, which began to murmur and rebel in 1917, and there and there panic alarm, desertion and the collapse of the army by the same repressive methods were stopped and correctly done. It is a pity, I repeat, that Kornilov did not have time to outweigh the socialist committee members.

    About the "lover of the ROA" did not understand, to be honest, what was the reason for this passage ...
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 30 August 2017 09: 09 New
      +1
      and why do you think that Kornilov could do this? after his absolutely brilliant invention, the death battalions, I personally have big questions for him as a commander. To remove parts of the most combat-ready fighters and put them down, did the man really not understand what he was doing?
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 12: 24 New
        +1
        So all the most honest and brave left the units, could not get along with the Bolshevik and other wretches, those who wanted to fight went to these parts. They could not be stopped. Otherwise, the civil war would have started earlier in the trenches.
  27. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 30 August 2017 11: 05 New
    +2
    after reading the comments I have to admit that people who position themselves as "anti-monarchists" look like ignorant boors who do not know how to calmly object to the opponent. It's a pity.
    1. long in stock.
      long in stock. 30 August 2017 20: 15 New
      +1
      well read what the great monarchist writes a little higher ...
  28. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    This is more talk, in the 19th century there was quite silence ...

    --------------------------------
    Because some kind of progress has taken place, well, there were wars with the external enemy-Napoleon, the Crimean War.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 08 New
      +1
      Whoever noticed this Crimean War in the outback, and Napoleon’s invasion ended in six months.
  29. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Trapper7
    after reading the comments I have to admit that people who position themselves as "anti-monarchists" look like ignorant boors who do not know how to calmly object to the opponent. It's a pity.

    --------------------------------
    Pity yourself better, the monarchists have divorced, I look. Everyone strives to put a new king.
  30. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    And about the Poles - it's you in vain. The same Craiov Army sent a lot of SS men to the next world, and the Warsaw uprising is also largely in the hands of it. And the Poles also fought with gangsters from the UPA, so you should not treat them with such neglect.

    -------------------------------------------
    Mdaa, storytellers divorced. Still a little and write that the Craiova Army liberated Poland.
  31. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 33 New
    +1
    Quote: IvanTheTerrible
    Here is an example of a photograph of a simple Russian unemployed, the grandson of Red Marshal Budenny Nikolai Chowles, the fourth generation hereditary Soviet proletariat:

    -----------------------------
    Marshal Budyonny was never a proletarian, do not distort. The Soviet military leader and major Soviet nobleman, so to speak. He had personal bodyguards, namely personal ones, which did not allow his arrest to be made, simply simply drove off the NKVD with machine guns from the house. The proletariat is a factory worker, if at all simplified.
  32. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    So all the most honest and brave left the units, could not get along with the Bolshevik and other wretches, those who wanted to fight went to these parts. They could not be stopped. Otherwise, the civil war would have started earlier in the trenches.

    ------------------------------------
    Monarchists and White Guards m. Razota no less, do not distort. And now there will not be rural pastorals beloved by your heart. Large agricultural enterprises and bio-holdings have long taken the food business in their tenacious paws. This is a global trend.
  33. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    For example, your ancestors could get a lot of land on new lands, as my ancestors received for service, but first you had to withstand and break the backbone of those peoples who were enemies and did not want to give our land to my ancestors. It's very simple.

    ---------------------------
    I understand your mercantile yearning. It turns out what your patriotism is. The zemstvos did not finish under that power.
    1. Curious
      Curious 30 August 2017 13: 50 New
      +1
      Yes, you spit on this troll. He always pushes on such topics, where you can gov .... m leave. Where the brain needs it is not.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 40 New
        0
        No need to be angry. You’ll be more angry for yourself.
        1. long in stock.
          long in stock. 30 August 2017 20: 17 New
          +1
          again failed to distinguish malice from contempt ...
  34. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 13: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: Lieutenant Teterin
    Ms. Ilyina, please teach your native history more carefully. At the Zemsky Sobors, all estates were represented, including peasants.

    -------------------------------
    Zemsky Sobor is not an instrument of direct democracy. This is the same electoral system, and the elector may not express the interests of all people, and indeed may be a swept, bribed, corrupt person who acted under pressure. It is obvious. Any land-lord, latifundist can, through threats and bribery, push his proxy into the congregation.
  35. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 13: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    Marshal Budyonny was never a proletarian, do not distort

    Born in a Khokhlyat family, on the Don, he spent all his childhood kicks, living in a Cossack village.
  36. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 13: 59 New
    +2
    Quote: Altona
    Monarchists and White Guards m. Razota no less, do not distort.

    Monarchists and White Guards in shock battalions fought for their homeland in 1917, killed German and Austrian workers and Hungarians, peasants and intelligentsia. The foreigners killed by Russian drummers did not give offspring, who came to kill us in 1941. The same is the Kornilov shock regiment He fought for the entire 17th year, and subsequently continued to fight in the south of Russia.
    But the Bolsheviks and the leftist like them refused to fight and shook the front and rear.
    Remember this.
  37. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    I understand your mercantile yearning. It turns out what your patriotism is. The zemstvos did not finish under that power.

    They just finished mine, they did not have any claims to power in Russia, we are talking about who allegedly lacked land. Therefore, the peasants supported the Russo-Japanese war, the Tsar fights, seizes the land, expels the aliens and exterminates.
  38. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 14: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    Whoever noticed this Crimean War in the outback, and Napoleon’s invasion ended in six months.

    -------------------------------------------------
    --
    Yes, it is clear that war for Russia is like a flea for a cat. But the women give birth to new soldiers so that they will send you a fellow countryman in Manchuria to conquer. Everything is clear to me with you.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 39 New
      +1
      52 thousand killed during the war and died from wounds and diseases, this is not much, the Red Army for a couple of days lost so much during the Second World War, about women it is to Marshal Zh, his quote.
      But to conquer a zemlyan to itself, there was no other zemlyan in Russia, convenient for cultivation. It’s elementary. If the Russians had not conquered zemlyan they would still be sitting on ships. Tradition s.
  39. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 14: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    Monarchists and White Guards in shock battalions fought for their homeland in 1917, killed German and Austrian workers and Hungarians, peasants and intelligentsia. The foreigners killed by Russian drummers did not give offspring, who came to kill us in 1941. The same is the Kornilov shock regiment He fought for the entire 17th year, and subsequently continued to fight in the south of Russia.
    But the Bolsheviks and the leftist like them refused to fight and shook the front and rear.
    Remember this.

    ------------------------------
    What should I remember? Your monarchical mantras? The war is being waged by the peasant masses, soldiers, and not just officers. And by the way, why was this stupid war started? Someone was going to give the straits? Where was the "brilliant" diplomacy that disavowed the outcome of the failed Russian-Japanese? Or again only the peasants blundered? You draw too cheap pictures. Alien leftists, Bolsheviks. Doesn't the epaulette look at itself? At the top, if everything was clean, then why did it fall apart? February the Bolsheviks didn’t arrange it. Remember this.
  40. Altona
    Altona 30 August 2017 14: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: Koshnitsa
    52 thousand killed during the war and died from wounds and diseases, this is not much, the Red Army for a couple of days lost so much during the Second World War, about women it is to Marshal Zh, his quote.
    But to conquer a zemlyan to itself, there was no other zemlyan in Russia, convenient for cultivation. It’s elementary. If the Russians had not conquered zemlyan they would still be sitting on ships. Tradition s.

    ---------------------------------
    I told you everything about the earth. And who do you think will conquer the land? At least Zhukov, at least someone. Strange you, pulling the facts apart from the mechanism of the event. "If the Russians", yes if only the Russians. Land was needed in the feudal era, it has long passed, we still have enough land. Come to Chuvashia, the sea of ​​abandoned land, young birch trees are already curling over the former arable land. Cry here about nothing. The Bolsheviks are bad for you. Monarchists are bad for me, because stupid renegades.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 15: 37 New
      0
      State and army. And I'm not talking about Chuvashia in 2015, but about the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905. Then, yes, the rural population needed the land until the Communists turned it into collective farm slaves. And the fact that the land was abandoned in Chuvashia is in vain, every patch in the Kuban is cultivated, so the results are different. Because the population is different, the human material is different, and this is not the merit of the authorities. Who else are renegades and stupid, look at the result.
  41. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    The war is being waged by the peasant masses, soldiers, and not just officers.

    Mostly in the shock battalions, the peasant soldiers served precisely, and there were more than half a million of them.
    Why war? Good childish question.
    Then, that in 1914, Russia was attacked, as in 1941, as in 1812.
    In 1907, brilliant Russian diplomacy entered into an alliance treaty with Japan, thanks to which they were able to transfer troops to the West from the Far East.
    And about lubok, I disagree with you, only realities.
    February is state re-transfer, the Bolsheviks actively supported it and won the next stage. Thanks to the help of the special services of the Central Union, but in the collapse of the army and the conclusion of a shameful peace treaty with Germany, their wine is undeniable.
    And then to call the Bolshevik cloaca the government of the good and the Kestians, well, it's just ridiculous, there really were practically no Russians hi
    Even Putin called them traitors.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 59 New
      +1
      Mostly wartime officers were also from the peasant class. 80% of the percent
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 15: 05 New
        0
        Russia needs the straits, in the Kuban all Cossacks understood this, grain trade went through them, and the opening-closing was in the hands of the Turks, and this hit the southern bread producer.
        Members of the WWI and Cossack officers wrote about this in their memoirs.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 30 August 2017 23: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Koshnitsa
          Russia needs the straits, in the Kuban all Cossacks understood this, grain trade went through them, and the opening-closing was in the hands of the Turks, and this hit the southern bread producer.

          Yes you, my friend, are a real colonizer. But what will you do with the Turks? Can you really drive the Indians into a reservation?
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 1 September 2017 10: 22 New
            0
            According to the results of the WWII, it was planned to take away the most valuable and sought-after territories and evacuate the Turkish population from there.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 3 September 2017 21: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Koshnitsa
              According to the results of the WWII, it was planned to take away the most valuable and sought-after territories and evacuate the Turkish population from there.

              What a blessing that there were other songs in the USSR: "We don’t need the Turkish coast, we don’t need a foreign land!"
  42. Whispering in the night
    Whispering in the night 4 September 2017 11: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Green

    What a blessing that there were other songs in the USSR: "We don’t need the Turkish coast, we don’t need a foreign land!"

    There were other songs, "Take us Suomi-beauty", for example ...))