How the feudalists unleashed a civil war in Russia

100 years ago, 31 August (13 September) 1917, the unsuccessful attempt of a military coup under the leadership of the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces, General L. G. Kornilov, ended.

prehistory

In the summer of 1917, Russia was in a deep political, socio-economic, and military crisis. The Westernist feudalists destroyed the autocracy and successively destroyed the main bonds holding back the huge building of the empire, trying to make Russia a part of European civilization and lead it along the western path of development. However, the pro-Western bourgeoisie, the Western Masons who seized power in Russia, only aggravated all the contradictions that had been accumulating in Russia for centuries, and caused the beginning historical troubles. This is a special mechanism characteristic of Russian civilization, which is launched during the peak of social contradictions, social injustice, when the interests of civilization and the people are at odds with the interests of the "elite". The feudalists wanted to introduce a Western development matrix in Russia, but such a direct “transcoding of Russian civilization turned out to be impossible.

Thus, the pro-Western bourgeois-liberal Provisional Government was unable to solve the main tasks facing Russia. Land (peasant), labor, national, economic and other problems have only become aggravated. Began a breakaway national suburbs. Due to the mass amnesty and the collapse of the law and order system, a real criminal revolution began. In the countryside, the peasants burned landlords' estates, they themselves divided the land - a real peasant war began. The summer offensive of the Russian army ("the offensive of Kerensky") ended in complete failure. The army decayed, the soldiers did not want to fight. In the capital, radical forces intensified, including anarchists and Bolsheviks.

Clashes around the key issue of Russia's participation in the First World War led to another shock - the July crisis, which put an end to the dual power of the Provisional Government and the Petrograd Soviet. In the conditions of a difficult and chaotic situation in the country, right-bourgeois forces increasingly began to look for a strong personality capable of doing away with "anarchy." The right wing of the feminists believed that the revolution was complete, the autocracy was destroyed, preventing the bourgeoisie from taking all power into their own hands and building a bourgeois republic, where all power belongs to the owners - landowners, capitalists, bourgeoisie. Now stability is needed, “the West will help” to solve the main problems. But Pandora’s box was open, the unrest was just beginning.

The split among the feudalists

After the defeat of the Bolsheviks and the anarchists in the course of the uprising, a struggle unfolded between the two camps of the feudalists — moderate socialists and liberals. The Cadets and other liberal forces staked on the Commander-in-Chief, General Kornilov. The July 26 (August 6) II coalition government formed under the chairmanship of A. F. Kerensky tried to pursue a policy of maneuvering between the main political forces of the country, which, however, caused discontent in both camps. In order to finally get rid of the control of the Soviets, to make a favorable impression on conservative forces and to provide broad support to his government, criticized both left and right, Kerensky accelerated the formation of new state institutions.

On August 12-15 (25-28), the State Meeting was held in Moscow. A kind of review of political forces was held at the State Conference, where each direction could present its own program. But it was not planned to make any decisions at the meeting. The interim government did not want to limit its power to representative bodies, but only to consolidate the turn to the "order" that emerged after the July crisis. About 2500 people were invited to the State Conference: deputies of the State Duma of all convocations, representatives of Soviets of peasant deputies, Soviets of workers and soldiers' deputies, city duma, army and fleet, cooperatives, commercial and industrial circles and banks, trade unions, zemstvos, intelligentsia organizations, national organizations, clergy and others. The Bolsheviks were expelled from the meeting.

The meeting was opened by Kerensky himself with a pompous speech, who declared: “At a great and terrible hour, when a new free great Russia is born and created in torment and great ordeals, the Provisional Government has called you here not for mutual infighting, the citizens of a great country, now forever cast off chains of slavery, violence and arbitrariness. " Kerensky called on everyone to rally around the Provisional Government and declared that "and whatever the whoever gives me ultimatums, I will be able to subordinate it to the will of the supreme power and to me, its supreme head." Kerensky attacked the threats left and right: “This is an anarchy on the left, this Bolshevism, whatever it is called, in our Russian democracy, imbued with the spirit of love for the state and the ideas of freedom, will find its enemy. But once again I say: every attempt of Bolshevism inside out, every attempt to take advantage of the weakening of discipline, it will find the limit in me. ” Enough collapse, now "everything will be put in place, everyone will know their rights and responsibilities ...".

The main intrigue of the State Conference was the speech of Kornilov, who was already perceived as the second political center in the country. In the 1917 year, Kornilov made a rapid career, having gone from being the commander of an army corps to actually the second person in the state. For a month and a little as Commander-in-Chief (Kornilov replaced Brusilov, after the crushing failure of the summer offensive of the Russian army), he managed to somewhat restore the fighting ability of the demoralized army. His actions found wide support among the officers and Cossacks, among the nobility, representatives of the bourgeoisie and the intelligentsia. 13 (26) August general solemnly arrived in Moscow to take part in the State Meeting. Kornilov met as a hero. A member of the Cadet Central Committee, Fyodor Rodichev, said: "Come, leader, and save Russia." St. George soldiers threw bouquets under Kornilov’s feet. Then he was picked up by the arms and carried to the car. Arriving in Moscow, Kornilov met with right-wing leaders (the “Black Hundreds” -the right were already completely defeated, now the Cadets have become “right-wing”), as well as with financial tycoons.

14 (27) August Kornilov spoke at the State Meeting. The ascent of Kornilov to the podium was accompanied by scandal. The right side of the hall met Kornilov with an ovation and rose from their seats. And representatives of the Soviets, including the soldiers, did not rise. Thus, the camp of the february revolutionaries, who destroyed the autocracy and the “old Russia,” finally split. The “Right”, henchmen of the bourgeois class, wanted “order” (having destroyed all the foundations of the old order!) And a “strong hand” that would calm the country. They wanted stability, the creation of a “European” Russia, where power and money belong to the bourgeoisie, capitalists and landowners, but formally there is a “democracy”. It is clear that "reassure" Russia, in which the unrest began, could only be blood. Therefore, they relied on the generals loyal to the bourgeoisie. The other part of the feudalists, the left wing, wanted to continue the transformations until the complete “liberation” of Russia, fulfilling the “order” of the masters of the West. At the head of this group was the Freemason Kerensky and his associates. They thought to completely "rebuild" Russia, bringing it to collapse, with the separation of national suburbs, the emergence of troops of "Western partners" in key, strategic points of the empire, total plunder of national wealth, etc.

The ideas of establishing a strict regime in Russian society have been going since April 1917. “The country was looking for a name,” General Anton Denikin recalled in his book “Essays on the Russian Troubles” close to Kornilov. - Initially, unclear hopes, not yet clothed in any concrete form, both among officers and among liberal democracies, in particular, among the [constitutional democrats] parties of the party were combined with the name of General Alekseev. ... Later, perhaps at the same time, certain organizations made certain offers to Admiral Kolchak during his stay in Petrograd. ... But when General Kornilov was appointed commander-in-chief, all searches ceased. The country, alone with hope, others with hostile suspicion, called the name of the dictator. ”

Speaking at the State Conference in Moscow, Kornilov called the main reason for the collapse of the army legislative measures taken after the overthrow of the monarchy. The general and those close to him had already prepared a program of reforms in the country: it included measures to restore the disciplinary authority of commanders in the army and navy, to limit the rights of soldiers' committees; a ban on rallies in the army and strikes at military factories; the transfer to the martial law of all railways, factories and mines working for the needs of the front; the extension of the death penalty law to the rear. At the head of the country was supposed to put the Council of National Defense, whose chairman was to be Kornilov, and his deputy - Kerensky.

Similarly to Kornilov, ideas were advanced by the ataman of the Donskoy forces, Aleksey Kaledin, who reduced them to six points of requirements for restoring order: 1) The army should be out of politics, completely prohibiting meetings and assemblies with their party struggle and divisions; 2) All councils and committees should be abolished, with the exception of regimental, company, centurion and battery, with strict restriction of their rights and duties to the area of ​​economic regulations; 3) The declaration of the rights of a soldier must be revised and supplemented with a declaration of his duties; 4) Discipline in the army must be raised and strengthened with the most decisive measures; 5) The rear and the front are a single whole, ensuring the combat capability of the army, and all measures necessary to strengthen discipline at the front must be applied in the rear; 6) The authorities' disciplinary rights must be restored, and the leaders of the army must be given full power.

Supporters are in the hands of General Lavr Kornilov, who arrived in Moscow at the State Conference

General situation

Meanwhile, the situation in the country and on its borders was heating up. At the end of July, 1917, the counterattack Austro-German troops occupied a significant part of Galicia and Western Ukraine, winning almost all the territories they lost in the 1916 year as a result of the Brusilov breakthrough. All the heroic efforts of the Russian army, the blood of many thousands of people were in vain. The front stabilized along the lines of the towns of Brody - Zborov and the River Seret. Kerensky’s offensive ended in a crushing failure. The Russian army could not attack. “The unbearable over-exertion of the forces of the sick body of the old army, demanded by this attack, had one main result — the acceleration of the further disintegration of the entire Russian front. Attempts to organize an offensive on the Northern and Western Fronts led to nothing, ”noted the military historian, General A. Zayonchkovsky. Heavy fighting with varying success went on the Romanian front.

The process of the collapse of old Russia was developing. In Finland, the Diet during the July uprising in Petrograd adopted an act of independence of the Grand Duchy from Russia in internal affairs, and on limiting the competence of the Provisional Government to military and foreign policy. After the insurrection was suppressed, Finnish independence law was rejected by the Provisional Government. In Riga, the local council of workers' deputies passed a resolution on the creation of a "united and indivisible autonomous Latvia" in areas with a predominantly Latvian population. True, half of these areas have been occupied by the German army for more than two years.

On August 14 (27), 1917, Kazan experienced one of the largest man-made disasters in Russia - an explosion at a powder factory, a fire from which spread to other enterprises, including weapons and oil refining and residential areas. Fire in the city burned for about 10 days. As a result, huge stockpiles of weapons for the front were destroyed. As the investigation found out, the cause of the disaster was not sabotage, but the usual sloppiness - a soldier’s cigarette butt. It all started with a carelessly thrown off guard stub at the Porokhovaya railway station. Grass caught fire from him, then scattered boards. The watchmen tried to put out the fire, but could not. Then the fire spread to the boxes of ammunition, explosions began, which set fire to the nearest railway depot and oil storage on the banks of the Kazanka River. Further, the fire spread through the industrial zone to military depots, which caused new explosions, and as a result, the fire spread to a powder factory located to the side. The terrible fire, accompanied by explosions, lasted several days, tens of thousands of residents fled in panic from the city. Fortunately, the number of victims for such a large-scale catastrophe was small: 21 people died or died of wounds, 172 (including 30 children) were injured. However, material losses were colossal: a large batch of machine guns was destroyed - 12 thousand million shells, about 30 thousand tons of oil. 152 buildings were destroyed or burned out completely, 390 - partially.

19-24 August (1-6 September) 1917, the Russian army was defeated during the Riga operation. The 8 units of the German army attempted to break through the front in a narrow sector in the Riga area in order to encircle and destroy the main forces of the Russian 12 army. For the Russian command, the enemy offensive was not unexpected - since the beginning of August the air reconnaissance reported on the transfer of fresh reserves and artillery by the enemy, which was confirmed by the defectors. However, no countermeasures in the Russian headquarters could not be taken. There is an opinion that Kornilov deliberately gave the Germans a chance to develop an offensive, since at that time he was preparing his speech. By deliberate surrender of Riga, he wanted to cause a panic in Petrograd (they were already preparing to evacuate the government to Moscow), put pressure on the government and create an excuse for insurrection.

However, there were objective reasons for the defeat of the Russian army. Most of the troops of the 12 Army covering Riga were decomposed by left propaganda, and the soldiers openly refused to obey the commanders, most of the time they spent in rallies and meetings. The executive committee of the soldiers' deputies had no influence on the soldiers. In order to somehow remedy the situation, the commander of the 12 army, General Dmitry Parsky, even declared himself a Social Revolutionary, but that did not help much either. The military historian Zayonchkovsky described the general condition of the troops near Riga in those days: “Replenishments from the rear did not come, older people were fired home for field work; Ukrainians went to Ukraine; the number of rows in companies was small. The command staff lost influence on the soldiers' mass. Headquarters were sitting in the rear. ” It is clear that the decomposed troops did not even think about the fierce resistance to the enemy.

So, when the German troops began forcing the Western Dvina in the defense zone of the 186th division, its soldiers almost completely abandoned their positions and fled. As a result, the Germans erected pontoon bridges without interference and began crossing. Having received a report on the Germans forcing the Western Dvina, the army commander, General Parsky, fearing encirclement, ordered to leave Riga. Only the 2nd Latvian rifle brigade manned by local residents had stubborn resistance. Latvian arrows, although they were not alien to revolutionary ideas, maintained in their units iron discipline and fought especially fiercely, as they defended their homes. However, after all the neighboring Russian troops withdrew, the Latvian brigade was also forced to retreat in order to avoid encirclement. On August 21, German troops occupied Riga. On the same day, the Headquarters ordered the 12th Army to retreat. The retreat was poorly organized and erratic. Often, troops fled, dropping artillery and carts. The Germans pursued the retreating rather weakly, only the German aviation actively pursued columns of retreating troops, delivering sensitive blows to clusters of troops and refugees. At the same time, the 12th Army had significant reserves prepared for counterattacks, but due to poor management and the reluctance of soldiers to fight, they could not be used.

Interestingly, during the Riga operation, the commander of the 8 of the German army, General Oscar von Gutier, first applied the new offensive tactics he had developed, which was later named after him. The infantry units were attacked after a very short but strong artillery preparation, during which enemy positions, among other things, were fired at by smoke and gas projectiles, while blinding defenders for a while. At the same time, special assault groups were ahead, which, avoiding frontal attacks, penetrated deep into the defense, occupying and destroying headquarters, communications centers and firing points. This tactic was so successful that until the end of the war it was used everywhere by both sides.

By 24 (August) 6 September 1917, the Russian troops stopped their retreat and took up defensive positions in the Venden position. The defeat was heavy. German troops captured the Riga region, strengthening their positions in the Baltic States and threatening Petrograd. True, the Germans failed to completely destroy the 12 th Russian army. Russian troops lost up to 25 thousand people, of which up to 15 thousand prisoners and missing persons. The material losses were heavy: the Germans seized 273 guns (including 190 light and 83 heavy), 256 machine guns, 185 bombers, 48 mortars, and a significant number of other military assets. The losses of the German army amounted to about 4-5 thousand people killed, wounded, captured and missing.

German troops in Riga

To be continued ...

Comments

[Nicholas C.]

He studied the history of the CPSU. I remember this:

[Diana Ilyina]

Another fake was piled again, pulling excerpts from the history of the CPSU (b) and rejoice ?! Ay, "Maladadz", run to the embassy for a cookie, a bad boy has earned!
In fact, the Bolsheviks never denied their ideological struggle against the bourgeoisie, but nevertheless, they did not unleash a civil war. Why do they need it if the power has already fallen into their hands ?! What did they gain from this war ?! The war was unleashed by the bourgeoisie, supported by the collective West, and it acted precisely for the benefit of this very West, and not for the benefit of Russia.
So your pathetic attempt is past again!

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Madame Ilyin, do not try to justify the Bolsheviks. It was they who launched the civil war, having committed an armed seizure of power, which in any state is one of the gravest crimes. The Provisional Government, for all its shortcomings, had conditionally legitimate authority received from Mikhail Alexandrovich, in whose favor Nicholas II “renounced”. So the “Provisional" had a flimsy, but still based on a normative act, right to power. Unlike the Bolsheviks, who seized power in a gangster way.

[Diana Ilyina]

Mr. non-respected Teterin, self-promoted to the non-existent rank of lieutenant, are you all right with your head ?! And with memory ?! Maybe you should remind that the power of the unlawful seizure of just the February people ?! And then you have obvious memory lapses, I remember, I don’t remember here ... Or could the Februaryists seize power, and the Bolsheviks shouldn’t ?! The adored crystal bakers, for one 1917, managed to pump the country twice in a row ... TWO TIMES CARL !!! And you still have a mouth open, something here is a pity to bleat about the Bolsheviks ?! Yes, do not come to power, the Bolsheviks, and even what is now would not be. And there would be no such unique people as you too. Even now you live thanks to what was laid down under the Bolsheviks and take advantage of the fruits of their labors. But to whom am I ...?!

[IvanTheTerrible]

you live thanks to what was laid under the Bolsheviks and enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Not us, but THEY. For example, the great-grandson of Marshal Budyonny Kolenka Chowles.

[Kalinvagen]

well, is he a great-grandson, so what? can pull over other great-grandchildren from the Internet? Does Budenny have only one great-grandson?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Madam Ilyina, every time I read your comments I want to laugh and clutch my head at the same time. Do you read my comments: fully or selectively? Didn’t you notice how I called the power of the Provisional Government conditionally legitimate? Yes, the “Provisional” were not a truly legitimate government, but they, at least, tried to give themselves the appearance of legality with two documents. Do you understand or not? They justified their power, albeit fictitious, but LAW, and not bandit law of the strong, in the style of "whoever has a rifle, he has power."
Secondly, there have been more than once coups in Russia, but never has the new government completely erased the legislation and social structure of Russia, not to mention the extermination of entire social strata of the population. The interim government did not repeal the laws of the Republic of Ingushetia and did not kill teachers and doctors.
And your passage “Bolsheviks Don't Come to Power” shows your ignorance of the history of Russia, since there was a Time of Troubles in the history of Russia, when the ruling stratum of Russia not only “raked” the country, but let the invaders into the Kremlin. Nothing done. So Russia would have dealt with the devastation of 1917 as well without the Bolsheviks. And, if you want to know what Russia would be like without a Bolshevik power, look at modern Finland - a state with an excellent education system, medicine and the lowest crime rate in Europe. What is the secret of the Finns? There, at one time, the local whites defeated and kicked the Communists out of the country.

[Diana Ilyina]

Lieutenant Teterin Today, 11:09 ↑
Madam Ilyina, every time I read your comments I want to laugh and clutch my head at the same time.

Similarly, in relation to your comments!

Yes, the “Provisional” were not a truly legitimate government, but they, at least, tried to give themselves the appearance of legality with two documents.

The appearance of legality is not law. Look at 404 Potroshenko also seems to have given the appearance of legality, but what's the point ?! Look at the modern Ruin and Russia after the February coup and find 10 differences. I repeat for those who are on the armored train precisely the February coup, and not the revolution. If you don’t know the difference between a coup and a revolution, read at least “pequidia” or something ...

Secondly, there have been more than once coups in Russia, but never has the new government completely erased the legislation and social structure of Russia

That's it, that coups, not revolution. A revolution is a change of order, and a revolution is a change of power with the same system. A priori revolution implies the demolition of all the foundations of the previous system. For you, even such common truths are a dark forest ?!

And your passage “Don’t come to power of the Bolsheviks” shows your ignorance of the history of Russia

Whose cow would mumble about "knowledge of history" ?! And this is written to me by someone who does not even know the elementary difference between revolution and coup ?!

So Russia would have dealt with the devastation of 1917 as well without the Bolsheviks.

And who prevented the bloody Nicholas from coping with the devastation before ?! Crooked pens ?!
For such "experts" in history like you: Russia has become a superpower only twice! Once it was under the monarchy, under Catherine the Great, the second time it was under Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin ...!

And, if you want to know what Russia would have been like without a Bolshevik power, look at modern Finland

Why not Liechtenstein ?! Finland on a map of Russia, except perhaps under a microscope, you can see. They compared a fly to an elephant.

Bolshevik

For such a spelling, I’d give you your little eyes, along with your little hairs,

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Out in 404, Potroshenko also seems to have given the appearance of legality

Ms. Ilyina, please kindly explain what “404” and “Potroshenko” are. I personally do not know such people.

A revolution is a change of order, and a revolution is a change of power with the same system.

I know this very well. Like the fact that after March 2, 1917, the monarchist structure It was de facto abolished by the transfer by Mikhail Alexandrovich of his authority to the Provisional Government. Read historical documents, please: http://rusidea.org/?a=420210

And who prevented the bloody Nicholas from coping with the devastation before ?!

Emperor All-Russian Nicholas II Alexandrovich there was no need to deal with the devastation. Before his compulsion to renounce, there was no devastation. It was created by the "temporary" coupled with the Bolshevik agitators. And anticipating your question, I’ll say that Nikolay Alexandrovich agreed to the act of renunciation, being in an information blockade (Ruzsky did not give him telegrams from Keller and Khan Nakhichevan) after a daily conviction by the conspirators, who presented the situation so that renunciation is the only way to stop chaos in rear and front. And yes, no one is safe from betrayal. Gaius Julius Caesar was a great man, but the betrayals of his pupil Brutus could neither predict nor prevent.

Russia became a superpower only two times!

You forget the reign of Alexander I, when the Russian troops were in Paris and the reign of Nicholas I, when Russia fought the revolutionary plague in Europe, and the two most powerful industrial powers, together with the allies, only managed to capture part of Sevastopol after an 11-month siege.
As for the Soviet Union since the time of Dzhugashvili .... The armed forces were the strongest in the whole world, that's right, but political influence ... The USSR was simply thrown out of Northern Iran, regardless of the interests of the Soviet government, and Dzhugashvili could only speak about the Straits meetings - this issue was not even seriously considered.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Why not Liechtenstein ?!

“And the fact that Finland was once part of Russia. This time. The area of ​​Finland is comparable to the area of ​​Buryatia, and this is not "under the microscope", but quite a decent area. Deuce to you and geography. These are two. And finally, the success of the state is determined not by its size (by the way, why exactly the size came to your mind ...), but by the activity of its government and the effectiveness of social relations between people. Finland and Russia were in equal starting conditions in 1917. Here are just the Finns, where there was no Bolshevik power, achieved great success in the social sphere, because they did not have crazy experiments with the massacres of people.

Quote: Diana Ilyina

For such a spelling, I’d give you your little eyes, along with your little hairs,

Yes ... Bolshevik "culture", or rather its complete absence is evident. And by the way, why didn’t you please the traditional Russian spelling?

[Yarik]

I read your comments. lieutenant. and you want to somehow assign the rank of ensign to you. But you can’t - there are no more minuses.

[voyaka uh]

"Let us turn the imperialist war into a civil war" -
the slogan that Lenin put forward in 1914, immediately after the start
1st World War.

[apro]

And what do you dislike about the slogan? The situation is completely cliched, the rich substitute the poor for their grandmothers, where is it not true?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Those who do not like the slogan are treacherous. When an external enemy attacks the homeland, it is necessary to defend it, and not strive to unleash a war against their homeland in the rear of a belligerent army.

[apro]

Treacherous towards whom? In the interests of the majority that war was fair? And the fatherland which puts the interests of moneybags above the interests of the common people, this fatherland cannot be popular.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

If you mean the First World War, which was Second World War for Russia, then Germany declared war on Russia there, as did Austria-Hungary. Where you saw the "money bags" here, I definitely can not understand. Russia defended itself against foreign attack, so the slogan is treacherous both to the people and to the Fatherland.
In general, I want to tell you that if the war begins as a result of the actions of certain citizens who are interested in starting it, then it is the duty of each citizen (or subject) to end the war first with a victory parade in the enemy capital, and only then ask questions that are inconvenient for those who unleashed the war. So do people who love their people and their Fatherland, and do not plunge their homeland into the darkness of fratricidal bloodshed.

[apro]

All parties are guilty of the imperialist war, since the Bosporus and the Dardanelles have all been buzzing, and about the unification of Poland at the hand of the Russian tsar, it somehow does not fit with the peace of Russia.
And do not live according to the precepts of the cat Leopold.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Quote: apro

The Bosphorus and the Dardanelles all buzzed, and about the unification of Poland

That is, the strategic interests of Russia are alien to you? Great. I always knew that a Marxist is an enemy of Russia.

[apro]

Why do Marxists need any pieces they need the whole world.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Everything's clear with you. "But I don’t give a damn about Russia, I’m a Bolshevik .." (V. I. Ulyanov)

[long in stock.]

every anti-Soviet is Russophobe. no matter what rank he hangs on himself ...

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

If you mean the First World War, which was the Second World War for Russia,

In fact, they call a war a domestic war, when the whole nation rises to defend their country, when the civilian population takes part in hostilities. Example, the Patriotic War of 1812, the Great Patriotic War of 1941. In these wars, the civilian population of Russia and the USSR took part in the militia, in partisan detachments, in urban underground organizations. Where did you see this in the imperialist war of 1914?

[Yarik]

Bravo, Colonel, bravo. My idea is perfect.

[saigon]

Wow, how beautiful, but what is the name of the event as a result of which drunk scum Boriska Yeltsin entered the presidency? Well, certainly a democratic seizure of power, and with the approval of the Amersos.

[Yarik]

voyaka uh August 28, 2017 11:36 ↑
"Let us turn the imperialist war into a civil war" -
the slogan that Lenin put forward in 1914, immediately after the start

Is everything normal with dialectics? With demagoguery not bad, I note.

[BAI]

In the bazaar then. Yes, ALL revolutions are UNLAWFUL, because they have the goal of forcibly overthrowing the existing state power. This is true of all revolutions: 1905, 1917 (either of two), 1991. The latter is the revolution of hygiene in Kiev.

[BAI]

Here is the bazaar then. Yes ALL revolutions are ILLEGAL, because have the goal of overthrowing existing state power. And 1905, and two 1917 and 1991. Accordingly, there is always a mass of people dissatisfied with the result, which leads to the Civil War.
Saying "what would be, if only ..." is not correct, history does not know the subjunctive moods.
And in this case, Russia should not be compared with Finland, but Greece or Serbia, because not a single Orthodox state has achieved significant success in science, economics, and technology. All the achievements of modern Russia come from an atheistic state from the USSR.
By the way, not a single state has made a sharp leap in development under conditions of democracy: Germany, Japan - in the occupation regime, South Korea, Chile, Middle Eastern Arabs - dictatorships (absolute monarchies), everyone can judge China's democracy independently.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Quote: BAI

not a single Orthodox state has achieved significant success in science, economics, or technology.

Tell this to Mendeleev, Popov, Zvorykin, Sikorsky, Tsiolkovsky and another whole cohort of scientists who worked or started their development in Orthodox Imperial Russia. And tell Sergey Yulievich Witte too. The one who managed to provide the ruble with gold security.

[avva2012]

And, what are you scampering about, like with a written sack with a golden ruble? Sounds nice? As in everything else, and everything else that you are singing for such a reason. I want to remember that we are on the VO site. Remind me, with what Russian, Orthodox development of weapons did RI join WWI? Three-ruler? What is the matter with aviation? How about tanks? With the gold ruble then. Compare with the USSR, the country is under siege after the Civil War, and, as in a fairy tale, PPD, DShK, Degtyarev light machine gun, TT. And many many others. And what a gunsmith do not take, everything is not grown on white rolls. And the ordinary ruble with Lenin. And the largest gold reserves in the world.

[IvanTheTerrible]

Remind me, with what Russian, Orthodox development of weapons did RI join WWI?

The three-line is not much worse than the German gewehr 98, although the latter is much "younger". And yet, haven't you heard of Fedorov’s 2,5 linear automatic rifle?

What is the matter with aviation?

The world's first heavy bomber designed by Sikorsky - doesn’t tell you anything either? Plus, devices purchased from foreign companies - there is nothing wrong with that. The Israeli Air Force, with the exception of UAVs, is entirely made up of foreign cars, the Jews are not embarrassed by this.

How about tanks?

Tanks on the battlefield first appeared only in September 1916 as a means of breaking through the enemy's deeply echeloned defense. Is it necessary to say that in the East, given the maneuverable nature of hostilities, the "exhaust" from these slow monstrous pieces of iron would be zero? Armored cars were for every taste and color.

[long in stock.]

an excellent bomber ... just wonderful. the truth is that the engines are completely imported .. and yes, I advise you to look at its characteristics and compare with the German Goths .. this is the whole point of outstanding images if the state is not able to produce them. At the same time, ask how much RI released machine guns and how many were fired by the same non-Austrian Germans ..

[Yarik]

And yet, haven't you heard of Fedorov’s 2,5 linear automatic rifle?

Something ammunition plants under arisaku 6.5 in I can not remember.

[creak]

Quote: avva2012

RI joined the WWI? Three-ruler?
What is the matter with aviation?

I would not want to enter into a discussion on this issue - I just would like to note that with the three-ruler the USSR entered the Great Patriotic War and it remained in service with the infantry until the end of the war, along with PPSh and PPS. which nevertheless was an order of magnitude smaller (companies of machine gunners) ...
As for aviation, the Imperial Army was armed with a four-engine bomber Ilya Muromets - there were no such machines in any army in the world .... And its creator Sikorsky grew up before the revolution and worked in the Republic of Ingushetia, and not in the USSR .. .
This is so offhand - do not cast a shadow on the wattle fence, not all yesterday’s schoolchildren in VO ...

[avva2012]

And how many were there, Muromtsev? IL-4, Pe-2, how much? And PPSh, how many millions did Soviet industry produce, as many as Fedorov's assault rifles at the peak of military production in 1916? Japanese urban, the Bolsheviks were in the way!
I don’t know if all the schoolchildren suddenly became monarchists, but judging by the VO, not a few.

[IvanTheTerrible]

So you do not compare warm with soft - RI was still an agrarian country at the beginning of the twentieth century, the government was only preparing industrialization (under Nikolay 11 more railways were built than under Dzhugashvili, for example). And if the “color revolution” did not happen, RI would meet this industrialization together with control over the Bosphorus and Dardanelles, which means access to the Mediterranean markets, as well as developed economies of Poland and the Czech Republic under Russian arm.
But immediately before the revolution during the war, Russia achieved a lot, without mass killings and terror.

Russian industry, having slightly reduced the production of civilian products, as a whole during the war years sharply increased its power. By this time, the products of the metal industry increased 3 times, the chemical industry - 2,5, the production of weapons increased several times. The production of rifles doubled (110 thousand a month versus 55 thousand in 1914), machine guns grew 6 times (900 against 160), light guns grew 9 times (665 against 70), and the production of 3-inch shells for them - 40 times (from 50 thousand a month to 2 million), heavy guns - 4 times. The construction of 4 dreadnoughts for the Baltic was ending, where by the end of 1917 they were supposed to be 8. The number of airplanes in the army tripled (716 against 263). By the spring of 1917, the Russian army had 24 thousand machine guns (13,6 thousand in the French, 2,2 thousand in the English), 6957 field guns (6588 from France and 3876 from England), 2548 heavy guns ( 5134 from France and 2758 from England). The vast majority of weapons were produced domestically; in 1915–1916 only 10 485 machine guns and 446 heavy guns were received from abroad. The jerk made by Russian industry made a great impression on his contemporaries. Churchill wrote: “Few episodes of the Great War are more striking than the resurrection, rearmament and renewed gigantic effort of Russia in 1916 ... By the summer of 1916, Russia, which had been almost unarmed 18 months before, which, during 1915, "survived a series of terrible defeats, really managed with its own efforts and by using the means of the allies to put in the field - to organize, equip, equip - 60 army corps, instead of the 35 with which she started the war."

http://swolkov.org/istoria_rossiyskoy_imperii/ist
oria_rossiyskoy_imperii-13.htm

[creak]

Quote: avva2012

I don’t know if all the schoolchildren suddenly became monarchists,

The main thing is that they do not become Russophobes, they know and honor the thousand-year history of their country, which did not begin on October 25 and 1917 and did not fall into historical unconsciousness ...
And to compare the release of weapons in the WWII and the Second World War - do not waste time, if you compare, for example, with the Russian-Japanese war, then the contrast will be even more impressive ..
As for the assault rifles, for your information in the WWII there were practically none of them in other warring countries ..
.Even in the WWII, the Wehrmacht infantry was mainly armed with Mauser rifles arr. 98g. (By the way the same age as our three-ruler) and a carbine 89k. And MP38 / 40 in Germany was released a little more than 1 million units. Is this evidence of the backwardness of German industry - or there were other considerations about which you are not aware ... The same thing happened in the US and British Army ... So do not rush with machine guns like a written shell - they were produced as many as needed - people were no more stupid than you and knew what infantry needed ....

[avva2012]

The main thing is that they do not become Russophobes, they know and honor the thousand-year history of their country, which did not begin on October 25 and 1917 and did not fall into historical unconsciousness ...

Of course, this is the main thing and I believe that History has a continuous course, which means stories that everything was perfect, but here came the "evil Bolsheviks, Masons", and so on, from the list, initially false.

So do not rush with machine guns like a written shell - they were produced as many as needed - people were no more stupid than you and knew what infantry needed ....

That's just able to release as much as needed, in a different economy and in more difficult conditions than it was in the Republic of Ingushetia. A German, yes, maybe an example, only the tanks made such that "the land did not hold them," and MR cannot be compared with the same PPSh. Somewhere the Teutonic genius stalled, it happens.

[Yarik]

As for aviation, the Imperial Army was armed with a four-engine bomber Ilya Muromets - there were no such machines in any army in the world .... And its creator Sikorsky grew up before the revolution and worked in the Republic of Ingushetia, and not in the USSR .. .

Well, there was no question of the industrial scale of the pr-va and the availability of them. So, piece. And like a bomb carrier, sorry ... nothing. Compare with Handley Page. TTH., for example. In one word, like a bomber - "threshing floor."

[BAI]

Tell it to Mendeleev, Popov, Zvorykin, Sikorsky, Tsiolkovsky

Why tell?
We look where the Protestant USA, Western Europe, Australia, Canada are located and it is not known which Japan, South Korea and China and we draw conclusions.
Orthodox states: Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Armenia, Georgia, Serbia, Greece. Who has success? Which of them can be compared with Catholic Italy?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Dear BAI, if you are a Protestant, I certainly respect your spiritual choice, but I consider it my duty to note that belonging to one denomination does not give the right to erect a slander to other faiths. Once again, I want to draw your attention to the fact that in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, a whole galaxy of outstanding scientists acted in Orthodox Russia. What is the reason for this success? The fact that Russia was richer than Serbia or Greece and could afford financing of educational and scientific programs. Can you recall the outstanding Norwegian, Dutch or Portuguese scientists of that time? No? And me too. Because faith has nothing to do with it. In this case, everything depends on the volume and priorities of the state budget.

[saigon]

I apologize, but since when is Orthodox Armenia?
Russia is a lot of confessional country, and you can remember such things about Russia. Although if higher in VO machines are called MP and PPSh then they will not be surprised at anything.

[parusnik]

And what prevented the Provisional Government from coming to power to really put things in order in the country? ... Before the February revolution, its future leaders so actively denounced the Duma rostrum for incompetence, and sometimes in betrayal of the tsarist government ....

[Shurale]

Remember the order number one of the interim government? Read it and think, after its adoption it was possible to maintain order in the army? And this was not done by the Bolsheviks ... They were not there either.

[parusnik]

I will tell you more, until June 1917 the majority of the Soviets were Mensheviks and Socialist-Revolutionaries ... The Bolsheviks had a minority ...

[netslave]

Order No. 1 belongs to the Provisional Government ?! My friend, come and learn a story.

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: Shurale

Remember interim government order number one ? Read it and think, after its adoption it was possible to maintain order in the army? And they didn’t Bolsheviks ... They were not there and there

Everything is fine in this post. It is necessary so not to study at school. From the word at all.
Order No. 1 was issued by the self-proclaimed illegitimate Petrosoviet, when the Provisional Government did not exist yet. The Bolsheviks in the Petrosoviet were not nearby, but in the composition. Moreover, when the Bolsheviks in the Petrosoviet received a majority and were headed by Trotsky, it was this structure that carried out the October revolution.
The interim government worked in conditions dual power.

[avva2012]

Order No. 1 was issued by the self-proclaimed illegitimate Petrosoviet when the Provisional Government did not exist yet. The Bolsheviks in the Petrosoviet were not nearby, but in the composition.

Nearby, not nearby, but each disaster has a name. And they are famous. Were the Bolsheviks among them? And, how, to you: "Declaration of the Provisional Government on its composition and tasks of 3 March 1917." What is written about democracy in the army?

Moreover, when the Bolsheviks in the Petrosoviet received the majority and were headed by Trotsky, it was this structure that carried out the October revolution.

And, this statement has anything to do with Order No. 1? Did the Bolsheviks have a majority in the Petrosoviet at 1 March?

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: avva2012

how, to you: "Declaration of the Provisional Government on its composition and tasks of March 3, 1917." What is written about democracy in the army?

The declaration appeared as a result of the joint meeting of the Provisional Committee of the State Duma, the Central Committee of the Cadet Party, the Bureau of the Progressive Bloc and the Executive Committee of the Petrosoviet before the formation of the interim government, at which they discussed the differences and agreed on the powers of the created VP. The EP declared what was prescribed to him.
It was not possible to agree on the cancellation of order No. 1 either then or in the future.
The "very secret" letter of the military and naval minister Guchkov (chief of staff, then commander in chief) Alekseev is known: "Time. the government does not have any real power, and its orders are carried out only to the extent permitted by the slave Council. and a soldier. deputies, who has the most important elements of real power, since the troops, railways, post office and telegraph are in his hands. You can directly say that time. a government exists only as long as it is permitted by the slave council. and a soldier. deputies. In particular, it now seems possible for the military department to issue only those orders that do not fundamentally run counter to the decisions of the aforementioned Council.". In a somewhat relaxed form, Alekseyev sent a telegram to the front commander. [AVR, f. Chancellery, 1917, d.3, v.1, l.159]

What kind of tidying up by the interim government can be said if the Petrosoviet, which was not responsible for anything, had great real power and its own completely different interests, which later turned into a coup d'etat.

[avva2012]

When there are no facts, but you want to throw the blame on a neighbor, then something “very secret” appears, the Masons, reptilians, or at worst, the Bolsheviks.

[Nicholas C.]

There are also characters who are not aware of the secrecy stamps of documents: particleboard, SS, OS, etc.
I didn’t have the mind to see that this "very secret" link was given to the source - to the archive fund, where is it stored? It happens.
Those who are not allowed into the archives can find this by searching. This letter and telegram are cited by all and sundry.
Even in VO it was recently https://topwar.ru/93199-raspad-rossii-stal-sledst
viem-shantazha.html
Only those who are absolutely not educated and are not capable of learning by double-checking, are not suitable for anything. If only to engage in demagogy. It is strange why I meet such people, mainly among the Communists?

[avva2012]

I can’t say why. And what, meet? I understand that they let you in the archives? The rest of the ignoramuses cannot even find anything by the links. Ambush. How can an intelligent person live on? You can pretend that you didn’t understand the idea, of course, together with Guchkov, I am not me and not my horse. Well, it’s excusable to you, but Guchkov, no matter what he hides behind.

[Doliva63]

There are also characters who are not aware of the secrecy stamps of documents: particleboard, SS, OS, etc.
___________________
Since I don’t know about secrecy stamps, I want to know the decryption of the OS “neck”

[avva2012]

The "very secret" letter of the military and naval minister Guchkov (chief of staff, then commander in chief) Alekseev is known:

This is not about secrecy, but that Guchkov, roughly speaking, is "smearing", takes responsibility off himself, saying "there was no power, and therefore we are not responsible." Was that so? And if so, then what did they do all together? They didn’t forget to receive a salary, by chance? Here you are

[long in stock.]

Particleboard-for official use .ss-top secret-before reading eat.os-especially-secret-eat after reading ...

[avva2012]

In the toilet for the most part, after that, only in the shredder. Okay then!

[Nikolay K]

Any revolution brings to the top talkers and demagogues who can speak beautifully but cannot do anything. Perhaps only Lenin had "two in one."

[bober1982]

The Kornilov rebellion was “operetny”, a fake character, Lavr Georgievich himself was not suitable for the role of a dictator. The course of the unsuccessful attempt to seize power was well described in the memoirs of General Krasnov, he was a participant in those events. As for General Denikin, given his liberal views and close ties with General Alekseev - his words should be treated with some suspicion.

[Finches]

The whole February coup was of an operetta character, perfect in the interests of some Western powers ... And then we started pulling blankets and toys in the style of those who piss on the wall above! So much so that even the cartridges from behind the hill were confused, who can bet on ?! And the soul went to heaven ... But Kornilov, Alekseev, Kolchak ..., these are just pawns carrying chestnuts from the fire for foreign owners! that many fevralists, that civilians, that the military did not fully understand their puppetry naively flat, that everything they do is for the good of Russia ...

[bober1982]

Quote: Finches

The whole February coup was of an operetta character

Here I can not agree, about the props, the country has gone downhill.

Quote: Finches

I admit that many fevralists, that civilians, that the military did not fully understand their puppetry

And here I agree, if you take Kornilov, the person was brave, but there was a lot of confusion in his head, this is just one example of such a brave, but naive "future" dictator, they put God into the light.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: bober1982

The progress of an unsuccessful attempt to seize power is well described in the memoirs of General Krasnov

Isn't that the Judas who was hanged in 1945?

[bober1982]

in 1947 they hanged him, and the course of the so-called Kornilov rebellion can be studied from the memoirs of General Krasnov, he correctly and soberly assessed events, he did not differ in liberal views, and he was a good commander.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: bober1982

in 1947 hanged

One hundred pardon me, wrong.

Quote: bober1982

according to the memoirs of General Krasnov, he correctly and soberly assessed events, he did not differ in liberal views, and he was a good commander.

One question remains, so what were the views of Judas the Reds, according to his own recollections?
And how did these views influence his decision to serve Hitler?
Even all this riffraff, such as Atama Semyonov, Kornilov, Denikin, does not cause more disgust in me than the personality of Judas Krasnov.

[bober1982]

He was not a Judas, completely confused, there were too many stormy events.
When they hanged, he was an old man, he did not understand where he was and who he was. He asked the Chekists how the people perceived his arrival at home (?), What they write in the newspapers (?) He was emphasized with a polite attitude, increased soldering, and the performance of small senile vagaries. I could not even imagine that they could be executed.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: bober1982

He was not a Judas, completely confused, there were too many stormy events.

One could even shed a tear about the old mrasmatian, if ....
Do you have the confidence that your or my grandfather died during the Second World War not at the hands of the Krasnoyarsk people?

[bober1982]

I don’t have such confidence, but there were millions of people like Krasnov, these are our compatriots, so you can write in Judas and the main character of Sholokhov’s short story “The Fate of Man”

[Sling cutter]

Quote: bober1982

In this way, one can write in Judas and the main character of Sholokhov’s short story “The Fate of Man”

Andrei Sokolov, how much fright did you drag here ???
It seems to me that they got confused with your sweethearted mrasmatik red.
You went too far, my friend.

[bober1982]

Quote: Stroporez

Andrei Sokolov, how much fright did you drag here ???

He subsequently went on to voluntary cooperation with the Germans, moved to the so-called category - "hevi"

[Sling cutter]

Quote: bober1982

He subsequently went on to voluntary cooperation with the Germans, moved to the so-called category - "hevi"

Only then he captured the Hitler General, along with the cards, and then fought.
So that yours do not dance!

[bober1982]

Quote: Stroporez

and then fought.

But this is so beautiful in books, but in reality I would have sat in our camp.

[avva2012]

There were few such as Krasnov, do not flatter yourself.

[bober1982]

Only in the camps sat, not at all units.

[avva2012]

It is a pity that the Vlasovites and others are the same, sitting, not lying, laid to rest

[bober1982]

Are these also not a pity ?, of which they recruited to the POA, for soldering, there were a million of them, and they will be, and there were, it's a sweet word, food and life.
So sorry for these people or not?

[Basil50]

The author lied.
The February coup was carried out to turn the former RUSSIAN EMPIRE into a colony. Therefore, plans were developed for the occupation of RUSSIA by the * Entente * allies. The further existence of RUSSIA * temporary * did not plan. Temporary workers talked a lot on any topic. Under these conversations, the state apparatus was destroyed, the army and police were destroyed, and the occupation zones were marked out.

[IvanTheTerrible]

Under these conversations, the state apparatus was destroyed, the army, the police were destroyed

But the Bolsheviks just did it.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Vasily50

The February coup was carried out to turn the former RUSSIAN EMPIRE into a colony.

What happened in 1991!

[IvanTheTerrible]

What happened in 1991!

This is called a restart of the cycle, taking into account the changing needs of the real owners of Northern Eurasia.

[baudolino]

[quote = parusnik] And what prevented the Provisional Government from coming to power to really restore order in the country ?.
Democratic hysteria interfered. The naive belief is that it’s enough to simply put on a red bow, walk in a demonstration, hug with everyone in a row - and we will live in a new way. The same thing happened in '91 when everyone was waiting for a wizard in a blue helicopter with a free popsicle.

[bober1982]

Naive faith, hysteria and a red bow were for the masses, but for the elect (initiates) everything was clear from the beginning. Therefore, they smashed the army-Order No. 1, destroyed the police, and brought chaos to the Church. We knew what they were doing.

[avva2012]

No way demons? It is interesting that then all sectarians were brought to nothing, and the Orthodox Church is still alive. How to explain? For Jehovah's Witnesses, the Bolsheviks are worse than the third diablo were and remain. With swordsmen in the Republic of Ingushetia, they fought, fought, but could not overcome it. But the NKVD, the god-free one, once all these castrati are doing something, and they do not bother the Orthodox people anymore. Wonders!

[bober1982]

Quote: avva2012

Miracles!

Yesterday, CSKA lost at home (football), miracles, and nothing more. It happens.

[avva2012]

It’s true, it’s great that miracles are simple, human ones make you happy.

[Koshnitsa]

Yeltsin in general and the Communists are doing something together with the CPSU. That's where the miracle is!

[irazum]

Quote: bober1982

The Kornilov rebellion was “operetny”, a fake character, Lavr Georgievich himself was not suitable for the role of a dictator. The course of the unsuccessful attempt to seize power was well described in the memoirs of General Krasnov, he was a participant in those events. As for General Denikin, given his liberal views and close ties with General Alekseev - his words should be treated with some suspicion.

[irazum]

But Krasnov is not the chieftain who later became a gang-Fuhrer SS and was hanged?

[bober1982]

Yes, the same one, but he was not a SS faction-führer

[Diana Ilyina]

bober1982 Today, 09:16 ↑
Yes, the same one, but he was not a SS faction-führer

Yes, he didn’t seem to be, but Skuro was! And then, the fact that he did not carry the rank of SS Gruppen-Führer does not mean that he did not serve in the SS.
And here is what your beloved "holy ROC" is doing: "In 1994, von Pannvitsu, A.G. Shkuro, P.N. Krasnov, Sultan-Girey Klych, T.N. Domanov and others in Moscow in the territory of the temple of All Saints a monument was erected "To the soldiers of the Russian military alliance, the Russian corps, the Cossack camp, the Cossacks of the 15 cavalry corps who fell for faith and the fatherland.""Is this normal ?! And the installation of a monument to Wrangel in the Crimea on the temple’s territory, is that how ?! The Russian Orthodox Church consecrates the monuments to murderers and murderers who are guilty of the victims of the civil war ?! And most importantly, they ranked the saints as the bloodiest king because of the brainlessness of which it all started ... And who then do you serve with your ROC ?!

[IvanTheTerrible]

The Russian Orthodox Church consecrates monuments to murderers and murderers who are guilty of victims of the civil war ?!

But the ubiquitous monuments to the international spy, terrorist and mass murderer Ulyanov, guilty of genocide of the Russian people (except for genocide, the extermination of the entire Russian elite, merchants, a significant part of the intelligentsia, the most organized part of the peasantry and Cossacks will not be called) do not confuse you?

[Diana Ilyina]

IvanTheTerrible Today, 09:33 ↑ New
A ubiquitous monument to the international spy

Answer your nonsense and I’m not making any sense to enter into polemics personally with you. Of course I argue with the local monarchists, but only with those who are more or less sane and adequate, you do not, alas, belong to their number, forgive me, goodbye.

[IvanTheTerrible]

I understand you - to argue with reality is still a pleasure.

[long in stock.]

Well, well, well, tell me how they exterminated everyone. Only tell the truth, how they exterminated ALL. but I especially want to hear from you how to destroy ALL COSSACKS .. well, let's .... I have always been interested in people who live in a different reality ...

[Sling cutter]

Quote: IvanTheTerrible

A ubiquitous monument to the international spy, terrorist and mass murderer Ulyanov

There are people who say such things because of their denseness, and there are those who misinterpret the facts for the sake of the interests of some particular forces.
And who are you?
By the way, Kakly have already reported on the demolition of more than a thousand monuments to Lenin.

[IvanTheTerrible]

There are people who say such things because of their denseness, and there are those who misinterpret the facts for the sake of the interests of some particular forces.

What is the beauty of Russian national forces? Being a part of them, defending the interests of the Russian people, it is not necessary to misinterpret the facts, it is enough to tell the truth as it is.

kakly have already reported on the demolition of more than a thousand monuments to Lenin

Kakla exists as a Russian, so that there is an example of how not to act.
Why demolish the Bolshevik temples, if you can bring all the idols to specially organized museums of Bolshevism, correctly arrange and organize the illumination for greater expressiveness. Lukich will also serve the Russians as a way to attract tourist flows, and with them money.
For example, something like this: https://sputnikipogrom.com/politics/1736/terrormu
seum /

[Lieutenant Teterin]

They misinterpret, say?
And then what about Ulyanov’s quotes?
“... The court must not eliminate the terror; to promise this would be self-deception or deception, but to justify and legitimize it in principle, clearly, without falsehood and without embellishment. ”
And this one:
“Sviyazhsk, to Trotsky. Surprised and alarmed by the slowdown in operations against Kazan, especially if it was correctly informed me that you have the full ability to destroy the enemy with artillery. In my opinion, you can’t spare the city and postpone it longer, because merciless extermination is necessary ... ”
Who is he after such orders as not a terrorist and a murderer?

[Sling cutter]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

And then what about Ulyanov’s quotes?

And how can one relate to phrases jerky from the context and giving them, thereby, literally the opposite meaning ?!
You still tell about the sealed car, only truthfully!

[Lieutenant Teterin]

This is actually from the "PSS Lenin." And the quote is not taken out of context, but is given together with him. And what do you consider normal the demand of the head of state for the merciless extermination of the city?

[avva2012]

Poor context! What they want is what they do with it. Do not tell me, then what happened to Kazan? Would Ivan the Terrible be envious? Where are we going! Monarchists PSS V.I. Lenin read or pulled quotes from a specific site then?

[Han Tengri]

Quote: avva2012

Monarchists PSS V.I. Lenin read or pulled quotes from a specific site then?

They are reading! Yeah! They pulled, cessally, from the following kosher-liberal "source": "Lenin's quotes from which blood runs cold" http://vsegda-tvoj.livejournal.com/16055686.html whose clones, in tyrnets ....

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

“... The court must not eliminate the terror; to promise this would be self-deception or deception, but to justify and legitimize it in principle, clearly, without falsehood and without embellishment. ”

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

But the quote is not taken out of context, but is given along with it.

Together with the context? What are you, there, so interesting, smoke ?!

Comrade Kursky!
In addition to our conversation, I am sending you a draft of an additional paragraph of the Criminal Code. A rough draft, which, of course, needs all kinds of decoration and alteration. The main idea, I hope, is clear, despite all the shortcomings of the blackberry: to openly expose a principled and politically truthful (and not just legally narrow) provision that motivates the essence and justification of terror, its necessity, its limits.
The court must not eliminate the terror; to promise this would be self-deception or deception, but to justify and legitimize it in principle, clearly, without falsehood and without embellishment. It is necessary to formulate as broadly as possible, because only revolutionary legal consciousness and revolutionary conscience will set the conditions for application in practice, more or less broad.
With communist greetings
Lenin
Option 1:
Propaganda, or agitation, or participation in an organization, or assistance to organizations acting (propaganda and agitation) in the direction of helping that part of the international bourgeoisie that does not recognize the equality of the communist property system replacing capitalism and seeks to overthrow it by force, whether by intervention, or blockade, or espionage, or financing the press, etc. under. means
shall be punishable by capital punishment, with the replacement, in the case of extenuating circumstances, by imprisonment or expulsion abroad.

Option 2:
#
a) Propaganda or agitation objectively contributing to that part of the international
bourgeoisie, which, etc. to the end.
b) Perpetrators of participation in organizations or in
action to organizations or persons conducting activities having the above
nature (the activity of which has the above character).

PS I forgot to add, make up. May 17, 1922 (Lenin V.I. Poln. Sobr. Soch. T. 45. P. 190) From the controversy, about the future Criminal Code.

Have you noticed any difference? Not at all?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Mr. Tengri, your comment only confirms the thesis that Ulyanov was a fanatic terrorist with manic inclinations, because an adequate person will not demand that the justification of terror be enshrined in the law.

[Han Tengri]

Well, that is, do you, in principle, agree that you have not seen in your eyes the original quote? And the snatches pulled from the very same as him: ("Manuals on anti-communism, for blondes, with deviations in mental development" ) Oh, sorry ... Confused the target audience, with the name of the opus. (20 years in the advertising business, without milk for harmfulness ...) "Quotes of Lenin, from which blood runs cold", of course!

[27091965]

Quote: IvanTheTerrible

But the ubiquitous monuments to the international spy, terrorist and mass murderer Ulyanov, guilty of genocide of the Russian people (except for genocide, the extermination of the entire Russian elite, merchants, a significant part of the intelligentsia, the most organized part of the peasantry and Cossacks will not be called) do not confuse you?

No one appoints a leader (leader). The leader is one of the most influential individuals as a result of the struggle for power. There can only be one leader in one team (two equivalent leaders can split and, as a rule, split the team into two, three, etc.), therefore, in the struggle for power, the enemy either is destroyed or recognizes himself defeated and submits to the winner. Only victory in the struggle for power gives the individual the right to dictate his will and implement his plans. Bloodless victories do not happen.

[bober1982]

Dear Diana Ilyina, if you were not on the site, it would be very boring, the melancholy would be green.
As for the monuments - well, what can we do, taking the example from the “ukroskakuns”, or from our overseas friends ?, for them now to fill the monuments is very topical.

[Diana Ilyina]

bober1982 Today, 09:36 ↑ New
As for the monuments - well, what can we do, take an example from "ukroskakunov"

Great logic, let's not take an example from ukroskakunov and start with the fact that we will not erect monuments to Judas and traitors such as Krasnov, Shkuro and other villains! Do not have to destroy anything. And then at this pace we will establish a monument to Vlasov in the center of Moscow, and at the same time we canonize it ...

[novel66]

Oh, Dianochka, they didn’t remember by night .... we had a hefty (2 by 3 meters somewhere) poster on the Yaroslavl highway with the face of a blood-blooded and teary inscription “forgive us sovereign” - I don’t know what kind of cattle I’ve tried, but imagine what It was a ride past something !. oh where are my manners? - glad to welcome!

[Diana Ilyina]

Novel66 Today, 13:35 ↑ New
Oh, Diana, glad to welcome! love hi

Novel, mutually!
Thank God, so far there hasn’t been anything like this in the city. And your idolaters and followers of the “deputy Poklonskaya” apparently tried to, if she wasn’t okay, a hysterical freak ... Here the Lord sent a senile to our head, save and save Russia from such deputies!

[bober1982]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

Lord sent

You’d better “cut out” with quotes the one with only death boots left, and whose wind blew all the garbage from the grave. And then ......the Lord sentimmediately remembered

[irazum]

That's right! I must also say that the Cossacks were inveterate separatists, well, such as the DPR and LPR, and when this great turmoil began in Russia, they made some efforts to break away from Russia and create their own state. What kind of "faith, king and fatherland" is there ... One laughter. At A.I. Denikin in the good army, by the way, were parts where the hymn "God Save the Tsar" was not performed, here you have the whole monarchy. Like a house of cards ...

[Diana Ilyina]

irazum Today, 09:43 ↑ New
That's right! I must also say that the Cossacks were inveterate separatists

I agree with you, with the exception of the comparison of the Cossacks with the current LDNR. These are completely different things and to compare them to put it mildly is not correct. Yes, in 1918 there was an opinion on the Don that Russia was secession from Russia and, in principle, the Don Cossacks in 1917-1918 were typical “housekeepers” who did not want to fight for the white or the red at first. And the throwing of the Cossacks at that time was very well and colorfully described in the novel by M. Sholokhov "Quiet Don"! Cossacks under royal authority, this is a privileged class. Yes, under Catherine many liberties were greatly curtailed, but nevertheless, the Cossacks in the Republic of Ingushetia had enormous privileges in comparison with the rest of the peoples of Russia. Hence the attitude of the Cossacks to foreigners and to the non-Cossack estate. And even though I am a Don Cossack, nevertheless I agree with the Bolsheviks in order to keep Russia from complete disintegration, Cossacks as an estate should have been abolished, otherwise there would have been such a parade of sovereignty that my mother did not grieve! Eleven Cossack troops would secede after the Great Don Army, then the Caucasus, Siberia, etc. In general, only a few central regions would remain of Russia, what would you say would be better ?!
I repeat, the Bolsheviks were right!

[IvanTheTerrible]

At A.I. Denikin in the good army, by the way, were parts where the hymn “God Save the Tsar” was not performed, here you have the whole monarchy. Like a house of cards ...

The idea of ​​the White movement as monarchical was imposed by Bolshevik propaganda. In reality, in Russia at the beginning of the twentieth century, the share of right-wingers in the country's political life was negligible, Russian society was of all shades of red, which was also reflected in the political preferences of the “whites”: of the ideological monarchist formations there were only “Drozdovites”, the rest in essence, they were Social Democrats. Probably, to a large extent it was this that provoked the passivity of the population during the Civil War - the “red” and “pink” are fighting themselves, but what is the difference to us? (a joke about two chairs). We found out after the victory of the “Reds", but it was too late.

[captain]

For all my disrespect for Krasnov (as a man who went to his homeland with the Germans) - he was never a gruppenfuhrer of the SS. So you can call Lenin a German spy, because he called for the overthrow of power, carried out work to decompose the army. And as for the outbreak of the civil war, it is not necessary to blame the sick (Bolsheviks) for the healthy (Alekseev, Kornilov, Denikin, etc.). If the Bolsheviks had not begun the genocide of the Cossacks in 1918, then 4500 bayonets of the white army would not have been able to ignite a civil war. White was expelled from the Don Cossack Army, and no one else. But comrade Trotsky, Lenin, Sverdlov, and others needed blood to strengthen themselves in power.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: captain

If the Bolsheviks had not begun the genocide of the Cossacks in 1918

What kind of genocide is it, even if the Bolsheviks released Kranov under the honest word of an officer, and he rushed to Don Cossacks to balamute against the Soviet regime ?!

[captain]

What kind of genocide is it, even if the Bolsheviks released Kranov on the honesty of an officer, who rushed to Don Cossacks to balamute against the Soviet regime?
INSTRUCTIONS Secret 12 December 1918 year
From the Supreme Revolutionary Council of the RSFSR,
political commissar Erlich for execution.
Persons listed in paragraphs are subject to mandatory extermination: all generals; clergy; hiding landowners; headquarters and chief officers; justices of the peace; judicial investigators; gendarmes; police guard; royal officers and officers; district, village and farm chieftains; all counterrevolutionaries and all Cossacks. ”
Kudinov P. Uprising of the Upper Don in the 1919 year. // J. "Fatherland" No. 5,1991. C. 74
Circular letter from the Organizing Bureau of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) On the attitude towards the Cossacks
January 24, 1919
Circularly. Secretly.
The latest events on various fronts in the Cossack regions — our advancement deeper into the Cossack settlements and the expansion among the Cossack troops — compel us to instruct the party workers on the nature of their work in the reconstruction and strengthening of Soviet power in these regions. It is necessary, taking into account the experience of the civil war with the Cossacks, to recognize as the only right the most merciless struggle against all the tops of the Cossacks through their complete extermination. No compromises, no half way is unacceptable. Therefore, it is necessary:
1. To carry out mass terror against the rich Cossacks, destroying them without exception; to carry out ruthless mass terror against all Cossacks who took any direct or indirect part in the struggle against the Soviet power. By the middle Cossacks, it is necessary to take all those measures that give a guarantee against any attempts on his part to new actions against the Soviet regime.
2. To confiscate the bread and force to pour all the surplus in the specified points, this applies both to bread and to all other agricultural products.
3. Take all measures to assist the relocating alien poor, organizing relocations where possible.
4. Equalize the newcomers from “nonresident” to the Cossacks in land and in all other respects.
5. Conduct complete disarmament, shooting everyone who will be found weapons after the deadline.
6. Issue weapons only reliable items from other cities.
7. Armed detachments should be left in Cossack villages until the establishment of full order.
8. All commissars appointed to one or another Cossack settlement are invited to show maximum firmness and to steadily carry out these instructions.
The Central Committee decides to carry out, through the appropriate Soviet institutions, the obligation of the People's Commissariat to develop, in a hurry, actual measures for the mass relocation of the poor to Cossack lands.
RCP Central Committee
RCCHIDNEY. F.17. Op. 4. D.7. L.5; F.17. Op. 65. D.35. L.216. Typewritten copy

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: captain

Kudinov P. Uprising of the Upper Don in the 1919 year. // J. "Fatherland" No. 5,1991. C. 74

You would have fastened Solzhenitsyn here, he and Kudinov would have come up with a lot of things.
Since we are again talking about storytelling, you should probably know that Ataman Krasnov was the first to initiate a large-scale punitive operation to “storytelling”, he conducted it against the advanced red part of the Cossacks, against those who, having returned from the front to the Don, welcomed the people's revolution, took direct or indirect part in the defeat of the Kaledin rebellion, in the establishment of Soviet power on the Don. Gathering in early May 1918 in Novocherkassk, the so-called "Circle of Salvation of the Don" adopted a resolution on the "tumbling" of the Red Cossacks.
Supporters of the White Cossacks have been keeping deathly silence for almost 90 years about this genocide in the Cossack milieu, pretending that these black pages did not exist in the history of the Cossacks. It was: 29 people underwent white slandering (the data was published by Krasnov himself in his newspapers).
And when, by the beginning of 1919, the Red Army occupied most of the Don Army area. And what did she see? Traces of the wild atrocities that the Cossack tops and fists repaired over labor Cossacks, especially workers and nonresidents, were killed by more than 30 adherents of Soviet power, more than 000 people were imprisoned, and together with convicts this number reached 7000 ..
Under the influence of messages from places, including from the Don Bureau of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.), On January 24, 1919, a circular letter was sent containing a directive on the repression to all Cossacks who took an active part in the struggle against Soviet power. But the arrests, evictions, executions were not as widespread as they are now being presented, they are usually exaggerated 10-100 times. Usually, 7-10 people from the farm fell into the "expense". It couldn’t be otherwise, because all the counters left for Donets.
How can we talk about genocide if almost all the objects were absent, if almost a third of the region of the Don Army was under white? But there were the largest centers of the Cossacks Rostov and Novocherkassk. Moreover, the Directive was valid for only two months, the plenum of the Central Committee annulled it.

[irazum]

But the Cossacks did not carry out the genocide? "White and fluffy" were all? But what about the chieftain Annenkov, the Cossacks of which were distinguished simply by cruel atrocities in relation to the civilian population of Semirechye? They turned against themselves the entire civilian population of the areas bordering China. And they were forced to leave for China. And the chieftain Semyonov? Also hanged, by the way ...

[captain]

5 February 1919 INSTRUCTION

On the basis of an order by the Commander of the 4 Army and the Ural Revolutionary Committee, the following instruction is announced for the leadership of the Soviets:

1. All remaining in the ranks of the Cossack army after March 1 are outlawed and subject to extermination.

2. All defectors who sided with the Red Army after March 1 are subject to unconditional arrest. The Extraordinary Commission is invited to strictly investigate the circumstances of their transition.

3. All families remaining in the ranks of the Cossack army after March 1 are declared arrested and hostages.

4. Those declared hostages are registered with the local council; members of these families and their property shall be registered with the census.

5. Departure of families and their members declared hostages is, of course, prohibited.

6. All members of hostage families are enforcing subscription 5.

7. In the event of unauthorized departure of one of the families declared hostages, all families registered with this Council are subject to execution.

8. In the event of unauthorized departure of one of the family members declared hostage, all members of the family are subject to execution.

9. The property of those executed is confiscated and distributed among the poor.

10. The implementation of the paragraphs of this instruction is assigned to the village and rural municipality councils.

11. The right to punishment 7 and 8 of this manual belong to the Extraordinary Commission.

12. All those fighting against the Red Army with weapons in their hands and defectors who crossed after March 1 and are released from custody are deprived of the right to vote, being in the position of the village bourgeoisie.

13. Local councils have the right to petition for the return of defectors voting rights.



With true true:

Manage Affairs of the Revolutionary Committee

Copy is right:

Secretary Kaz. Osc. All-Russian Central Executive Committee Ulyanov.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: captain

White was expelled from the Don Cossack Army, and no one else. But comrade Trotsky, Lenin, Sverdlov, and others needed blood to strengthen themselves in power.

If you read laziness, then watch a movie!

[captain]

No.3679 19 April 1920 STRICTLY SECRET Prev V.Ch.K. comrade Dzerzhinsky NOTE On ref. No. 2226 / D from 10.04.1920 of the year.

Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic
All-Russian Council of People's Commissars
Moscow. Kremlin.
No.3679 19 April 1920
STRICTLY SECRET Prev V.Ch.K. comrade Dzerzhinsky
NOTE On ref. No. 2226 / D from 10.04.1920 of the year.

The task of V.Ch.K. lies in the fact that the word "Cossacks" itself disappeared from the Russian language once and for all. Throughout Russian history, the Cossacks acted as the executioner of the working class. Soviet power must mercilessly and everywhere destroy and punish the Cossacks as a class hostile to the proletariat.

Prev Owls People's Commissars: signature (Ulyanov-Lenin)
And after that, the Communists hang all the dogs on the Cossacks. Forgetting at the same time; Stepan Razin, Emelyan Pugachev, Kondraty Bulavinov .., Dezhnev, Khabarov ... General Platov, General Karbyshev and 252 Cossack Hero of the Soviet Union. It was Tsar Slug who ridiculed the head of the military counterintelligence when he reported to him about the connection of the Bolshevik leaders with the German General Staff. And Lenin shot everyone without hesitation.

[Sling cutter]

Quote: captain

destroy and punish the Cossacks mercilessly and everywhere as a class hostile to the proletariat.

The captain was furious)))))
Your "documents" are, to say the least, doubt.
But even if this is so, tell me what to do with an armed enemy?

Quote: captain

and punish the Cossacks as a class hostile to the proletariat.

Let me remind you of the Bloody Resurrection, when the Cossacks with great pleasure cut their heads to unarmed people, including women and children !!!

[long in stock.]

what a horror .... a nightmare ... but how did you survive ??? and Karbyshev survived ... but how many Cossack divisions were formed into the great Russian? I'm really afraid to think how I appeared ... I have great-grandfather not just a Cossack of Transbaikal, but also a royal lackey-feldeger served ... they shot everyone, but I’m alive. yes, and I look at the dead man do not look like ....

[BAI]

In a civil war, there are no right and wrong.

[avva2012]

Mr., captain, how was it with the convoys of the Cossacks on which they exported the looted goods after the "struggle against the Jewish Bolsheviks"?

[IvanTheTerrible]

It’s even interesting how the author will further dodge what kind of perverse logic he will use in order to impose a false picture of the world on the reader, given the fact that the Volunteer Army began to form on November 2, 1917 - AFTER the October armed seizure of power by international terrorists. Which by force dismissed the legitimately elected legitimate All-Russian Constituent Assembly and shot the peaceful protest in defense of democracy by the hands of Latvian punishers.
That is, the formation of the Volunteer Army was a reaction to lawlessness, violence and terror, and not an act of aggression.

[ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH]

Quote: IvanTheTerrible

the formation of the Volunteer Army was a reaction to lawlessness, violence and terror,

Indeed, the Civil War began on November 7, 1917 with the seizure of power in Petrograd by a gang of international adventurers, spies and mercenaries.

[voyaka uh]

Kerensky was quite an adequate and reasonable person, who turned out to be
in an extremely difficult situation: both within the country and the war, and in
diplomatic front.
The main mistakes: 1) did not start "on the brakes" to gradually leave the war.
(do not carry out attacks, begin to demobilize "tired" and unreliable units,
don't give in to dip. French pressure).
2) did not start land reform.
He tried to hold out to the Constituent Assembly elections without reform.

[IvanTheTerrible]

1) did not start "on the brakes" to gradually leave the war.

To quit a coalition that could not physically lose in a world war just before its end? Yes - it would be a brilliant act worthy of only one Genius - Ulyanov.

2) did not start land reform.
He tried to hold out to the Constituent Assembly elections without reform.

What reforms can be discussed if even the future state structure of Russia is not defined? The provisional government, with its conditional legitimacy and dubious legitimacy, could only prepare and carry out elections to the All-Russian Constituent Assembly, the organizing authority of which would be absolutely legitimate and absolutely legitimate. Which was done.

[voyaka uh]

“Which was done.” ///
-------
But after the October armed coup. And that's why
It turned out to be pointless.
A coup could have been prevented by depriving Lenin of trump cards:
1) a protracted war unpopular among the people, from which everyone is tired.
2) the lack of land reform "land - to the peasants."
We are back to Kerensky’s mistakes.

[long in stock.]

if Kerensky was adequate, he wouldn’t fall into hysteria. By the way, he was famous. And the main mistakes, as you rightly pointed out, he didn’t think about. It was not the head of state but an ordinary gorlopan ... therefore the Bolsheviks came - the rest only promised and they gave. The same decree on land is the development of the Cadets, only they proposed and the Bolsheviks did. That's the difference

[voyaka uh]

"the Bolsheviks came" ///
---
They came with the Nagan - terror and a devastating civil war.
The peasants received land, but they began to take their crops, etc.
Kerensky was much preferable, despite his inexperience.

[avva2012]

What passions. Do you really think that the cute Kerensky was inexperienced as an institute and the daughter of a chamberlain?
Yes, and who was there on the posters of the white movement? What associations arose among officers and Cossacks with the word Bolshevik? Especially among the Cossacks.

[long in stock.]

warrior has long been chewed by anyone who and how they robbed. and who started a civilian. Preferred? to whom? Milyukov-Dardannel? allies? so let them command them. to read the opus of the memorial has long been considered the lot of idiots. as soon as they begin to press them with numbers, they immediately run tail between them ..

[ALEXEY VLADIMIROVICH]

Kerensky was a socialist revolutionary! He considered the development of the revolution, the destruction of "old Russia" and the building of socialism to be his most important tasks!

[voyaka uh]

The revolutionaries of the time saw the construction of socialism in completely different ways.
For example, Western Europe took the path of Kautsky: 1) the Social Democratic workers' parties in the elections peacefully come to power in their parliaments.
2) and rebuild ("equalize) the income of citizens by means of a progressive tax (the rich pay the state a high tax, and the poor do little or no).
3) and, of course, pensions, short working hours, etc.
This is called "Swedish socialism." And he works - in Scandinavia, Austria ...
Lenin, of course, chose the simplest habitual way: to take everything into the hands of the state,
to appoint everywhere-everywhere "their" officials and steer alone, like the ancient pharaohs, immediately giving on the head to all those who disagree.
This is called "Soviet socialism."
Kerensky was closer in his views to the first option.

[Curious]

As always, the discussion of articles on similar topics has turned into a clarification of who pushes the most poop into the opponent.
But the author expressed the whole essence of the article in one paragraph.
"In the summer of 1917, Russia was in a deep political and military crisis. The Westernist feudalists destroyed the autocracy and successively destroyed the main bonds holding the huge empire building, trying to make Russia a part of European civilization and lead it along the Western path of development. However, the pro-Western bourgeoisie, Western masons who seized power in Russia, only aggravated all the contradictions that had been accumulating in Russia for centuries and caused the beginning of historical unrest. This is a special mechanism characteristic of Russian civilization, which is launched at the peak of social contradictions, social injustice, when the interests of civilization and people diverge as much as possible from the interests of " the elite. "
Conclusion is the first of the above.
The only force that prevented the destruction of the “Russian matrix” and Russia's turn on the “European path” are the Bolsheviks.
Thus, taking power, they saved Russia. All other political forces were incapacitated.
The second conclusion. The author considers the riot as a characteristic historical feature of Russia as a way of resolving the contradictions that have accumulated between the elite and the people. That is, following the logic of the author, the next riot is a matter of time, and it seems that it is no longer far away.
True, for some reason I had the thought that the author himself did not understand what he was finishing up with. But - it’s written with a pen, you won’t cut it with an ax.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Mr. Curious, crises including systemic ones have happened in Russian history more than once. The situation was similar in 1917 in 1613. Then the problem was solved by convening the Zemsky Sobor - a nation-wide and omnipresent constituent-representative body, which was a legitimate instrument of popular expression. In 1917, the Provisional Government, realizing its weak legal capacity, initiated the convening of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly - similar to the Zemsky Sobor of the constituent representative body. The Constituent Assembly was fully consistent with the very “Russian matrix”, and the Bolsheviks, having seized power, dispersed this very Assembly, thereby neglecting the will of the people. And then, the Bolshevik government gradually began to abolish the laws of the Russian Empire, exterminate the aristocracy, merchants, intelligentsia, officers, the active part of the Russian peasantry, pursue a policy of "indigenousization" thereby suppressing the "cultural matrix" of the Russian people. The peasants, by the way, all the first 3 decades sought to leave the community, and the Bolsheviks forcibly drove them back to the collective farms, which became a degraded copy of the community. Workers dreamed of abolishing late fines, and received criminal prosecution for changing their jobs without the “highest” permission http://stalinism.narod.ru/vieux/ukaz.htm#t2
So the Bolsheviks did not save, but they destroyed Russia.

[sibirak10]

The Bolsheviks so badly "destroyed" Russia that twenty years later it was able to withstand the armed struggle against the fascist "European Union". Once on the battlefield alone, without having a full-fledged “Second Front” allied.
If we count "according to the Hamburg account", then the Second World War turned out to be the "litmus test" that tested Bolshevik Russia and the Bolsheviks as leaders of the state.
Now, if in 2012, that is, 20 years after the liberals came to power, NATO attacked us, could we survive? Very doubtful.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

You confuse the concepts of "statehood" and "military power." Russian statehood, as well as culture, suffered heavy, difficult to recover losses. But the Bolsheviks began to revive military power, due to the fact that they saw the USSR as a bridgehead for the "world revolution".

Quote: sibiryak10

Once on the battlefield alone

Do not forget about the bombing of German plants, Lend-Lease tanks near Moscow, stew, gunpowder, 480 thousand cars, 40% of jet fuel, rare earth metals and much more http://statehistory.ru/35/Lend-liz--Mify-i- realno
st /
Yes Yes. By oneself. Absolutely.

[sibirak10]

I wrote "on the battlefield" because the Third Reich did not have to hold half of its military forces against England and the United States, our allies.
And what grave losses did our culture suffer? After the revolution, we destroyed all the writers, artists, poets, filmmakers, etc.
Eisenstein, Ilf, Petrov, Zoshchenko, Mayakovsky, Sholokhov - you can continue for a very long time.
Culture before the Bolsheviks - it was a culture for the "elite", it was the Bolsheviks who made it a culture for the masses.
Before the revolution, 70% of the population was illiterate. It was the Bolsheviks who introduced compulsory universal education. And they actually implemented it, in contrast to the liberal-talkers, whose words often diverge from the deed.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Quote: sibiryak10

Eisenstein, Ilf, Petrov, Zoshchenko, Mayakovsky, Sholokhov

These are all isolated examples, and the same Mayakovsky, for example, was educated and began his work in Old Russia. The workers of culture with the world name of the USSR could not produce. Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Gogol, Chekhov was read, translated, and put on world stages. Soviet writers and playwrights - never. Russian culture was lively, interesting and distinctive. She attracted people. Soviet - an incomprehensible panopticon, not able to cause the attraction that Russian culture possessed.
And I'm not talking about architecture, painting, ballet and opera. Which of the Soviet artists of the 40s - 70s can you name? Whose paintings have become part of the world cultural heritage?

Before the revolution, 70% of the population was illiterate.

But this is an outright lie. Hundreds of magazines and newspapers were published in the Republic of Ingushetia. http://www.charmingrussia.ru/2013/11/blog-post_22
.html
And they are too much for 30 percent literate.
And here is a selection of materials on public education:
http://www.charmingrussia.ru/2016/07/blog-post.ht
ml

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: Lieutenant Teterin

The situation was similar in 1917 in 1613. Then the problem was solved by convening the Zemsky Sobor - a nation-wide and omnipresent constituent-representative body, which was a legitimate instrument of popular expression. In 1917, the Provisional Government, realizing its weak legal capacity, initiated the convening of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly - similar to the Zemsky Sobor of the constituent representative body. The Constituent Assembly was fully consistent with the very “Russian matrix”, and the Bolsheviks, having seized power, dispersed this very Assembly, thereby neglecting the will of the people.

Do not contrast. The analogy is more complete. The role of the sailor Zheleznyak then at the Zemsky Sobor was performed by the Cossacks, who brought their protege Romanov.
I am amazed how the cycle closed. As the Romanovs began and acted with their predecessors and the estates of Rus Rurikovich, so then they did with the Romanov Russia and its estates. Both in the Time of Troubles and in 1917, forces alien to Russia defeated. Despite the victory of the militia in the war !! Then it took more than one and a half centuries to rebuke and recover. How much is needed now is unclear. But a hundred years have passed.

[avva2012]

You are right, the Bolsheviks destroyed, but not Russia, but that part of the parasites on it and believing that it should be so. The current reinfection can kill our country permanently, but you don’t even realize this.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

If for you officers, professors and doctors are “parasitic”, then talking with you is a waste of time.

[avva2012]

If for you officers, professors and doctors are “parasitic”, then talking with you is a waste of time.

Sir, Teterin, where did you read about the mass extermination of professors and doctors? Enlighten please. They planted and sentenced to the Navy, specific enemies that were smeared with blood anyway. That is, they committed crimes that corresponded to the Criminal Code of that time. Why, are you not indignant when professors and doctors are being imprisoned for specific criminal offenses? Terror, too, but how do you think otherwise, if the doctor is given a real term, a sick leave issued for money, and Vasilyeva who stole millions, escaped with a "severe reprimand"?
No need to juggle, you are not a sharpie, there are no such skills. Bearing in mind “parasites,” I wrote about the owners of factories, steamboats, and lovers of lending money at a predatory interest. About the officers, read the memoirs of the same Drozdov, you can understand why they were put against the wall.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

Have you heard of the Red Terror? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D1%80%D0%B0%
D1%81%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%80%
D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%B2_%D0%A1%D0%B8%D0%BC%D1%84%D0%B5
%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B5
When people were killed "for that schooen bourgeois damned."

Quote: avva2012

owners of factories, steamboats and amateurs to lend money at a predatory interest.

But this phrase already sounds like a memorized blank from propaganda material. And, of course, you didn’t hear about the fact that the "factory owners" organized libraries and theaters for workers, right?
http://www.dissercat.com/content/polozhenie-fabri
chno-zavodskikh-rabochikh-moskvy-v-kontse-xix-nac
hale-xx-vv

[avva2012]

organized libraries and theaters for workers

What a charm! After the 12-16 hour day, I really want to go to the library!
And what laws were there if the worker did not use the library.
Working legislation of Alexander III. 1882-1886
1) for committing misconduct in articles 1359 and 13591 for the third time or at least for the first and second time, but when these misconduct caused unrest in the factory or plant, accompanied by a violation of public silence or order, and entailed the adoption of emergency measures to suppress the unrest, the head of a factory or factory is subject to: arrest for a period of up to 3 months and, moreover, may be permanently deprived of the right to head factories or plants.
2) For the termination of work at a factory or a factory for striking workers among themselves in order to force manufacturers or breeders to raise wages or change other conditions of employment before the expiration of the latter, the perpetrators are: incited to start or continue the strike - to be imprisoned for a period of 4 up to 8 months, and other participants - imprisonment for a period of up to 2 up to 4 months. Participants in a strike who have stopped it and have begun work on the first demand of the police are exempted from punishment.
3) The participants in the strike that caused damage or destruction to the factory or factory property or the property of persons serving in the factory or factory, if they did not constitute a more serious crime, are exposed to:
incited to these actions or disposed of the crowd - imprisonment from 8 months to 1 of 4 months, and other participants - imprisonment from 4 to 8 months.
4) Participants in a strike who forced other workers to stop work by violence or threats or not to resume work that they did not constitute a more serious crime are exposed to:
incited to these actions or disposed of the crowd - imprisonment from 8 months to 1 of 4 months, and other participants - imprisonment from 4 to 8 months.
IV. To amend and supplement the applicable articles of the Charter on the punishments imposed by justices of the peace, the following rules shall be enacted: 1) For an unauthorized refusal to work before the expiration of the term of employment, the guilty of that factory or factory worker shall be arrested no more than 1 a month. 2) For deliberate damage or extermination of complex and valuable implements of production located at the factory or factory, the worker guilty of that, if his action does not constitute a more serious crime, is arrested up to 3 months. If the consequence of such damage or extermination is a stoppage of work at the factory, the perpetrator is imprisoned for a period of 3 months to 1 of the year.
(Complete collection of laws of the Russian Empire. Collection 3. T. 6. No. 3768. S. 262-266)

Have you heard of the Red Terror?

I even read it, but are you talking about "white"?

[Lieutenant Teterin]

That is, you do not know about the working day at 9,5 hours in the Moscow province. Perfectly. As well as a large number of holidays in the Republic of Ingushetia.
Read about the situation of workers here:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/word_solo/post23
8281557 /

[avva2012]

9,5 hours in Moscow province? And how is it in Tomsk or Ivanovo? Or in the latter case, the weavers with fat raged? How the worker lived was not necessary to tell. In itself, Such laws from a beautiful life do not appear. You, too, look for photos of those times. Workers, peasants, not revolutionaries removed.

[Lieutenant Teterin]

You do not compare the 1880s and 1900s. For 20 years, imperial legislation has taken a huge step forward in the field of social protection.

[avva2012]

Yeah, by leaps and bounds! The scope of social protection. You would have the terms so hated by you communists, not used. In RI, find something similar. Yes, if, you said that for 20 years, something has changed, then bring that. Funny, you answer, however. About 9,5 weeks, pah, hours, do not want to continue?

[Curious]

Mr. Poruchik! It is a pity there is no reason why today your spiritual brother Olgovich, otherwise your “Hallelujah” has struck the Constituent Assembly twice as loudly. But you, like the author, "signed up." The question that arises from your text.
So - the constituent assembly is fully consistent with the "Russian matrix", which, naturally, the Bolsheviks are alien to and 51.7% of which are the Social Revolutionaries.
The population of Russia in 1917 was no less than 160 million.
The Socialist Revolutionary Party - in 1917 - about a million. RSDLP at the same time - 240 thousand. The Bolsheviks dispersed the constituent assembly, took power. Do you continue to insist that this collection of loafers represented Russia and its matrix?

[BAI]

Conclusion is the first of the above.
The only force that prevented the destruction of the “Russian matrix” and Russia's turn on the “European path” are the Bolsheviks.

Just the other day I saw a telecast of some church channel where it was stated (with the testimony of eyewitnesses (contemporaries of the 20s)) that the Bolsheviks unleashed the genocide of the Russian population in Russia at the direction of Western Masons (especially went to Lenin and Sverdlov).

[long in stock.]

Well, the Bolsheviks priests deprived of such a feeder ... and they spit. Money is a pity ..

[Luga]

Quote: Curious

As always, the discussion of articles on similar topics has turned into a clarification of who pushes the most poop into the opponent.

No wonder. This is not the first article on this topic, opponents of each other are well aware, all the facts and arguments have long been cited, so why waste time in vain? Go to battle, without intelligence!
But regarding the general meaning of the article, I would be careful not to draw any conclusions. I think that in the next part we will expect a lot of tricky turns and unobvious conclusions. The author’s train of thought, on the one hand, is clearly predictable (global Russia-West confrontation in the style of Good - Evil, white - black), but at the same time, some of his calculations (not many, unfortunately) can be unexpected and non-trivial.

Quote: Curious

Conclusion is the first of the above.
The only force that prevented the destruction of the “Russian matrix” and Russia's turn on the “European path” are the Bolsheviks.
Thus, taking power, they saved Russia. All other political forces were incapacitated.

I fully agree with the conclusion, if we exclude the “Russian matrix”. I do not like such concepts. However, I have not yet found any prerequisites for such a conclusion from the author, I am more likely to assume that the Bolsheviks, in his understanding, are also enemies of the “Russian superethnos”.

Quote: Curious

The second conclusion. The author considers the riot as a characteristic historical feature of Russia as a way of resolving the contradictions that have accumulated between the elite and the people. That is, following the logic of the author, the next riot is a matter of time, and it seems that it is no longer far away.

"Rebellion," or as the author says, "Troubles" as a way to resolve social contradictions is not a purely Russian method. With the aggravation of the class struggle and the lack of political elite to reduce this severity, riots or unrest occur and have occurred in all countries and at all times. I don’t know why the author suddenly forgot about all kinds of uprisings, civil wars, etc., which repeatedly shook the same old woman Europe or, for example, China. As for the proximity of the new Russian rebellion, so far I have not found such thoughts in this article. We’ll call what we’ll see. As I said, this author is capable of a non-trivial move. I’m only afraid that he will again begin to broadcast about the “Judeo-Saxon conspiracy”, the “great Russian mission”, etc., which can upset me and provoke another spill of bile.

Quote: Curious

True, for some reason I had the thought that the author himself did not understand what he was finishing up with.

In general, I begin to get the impression that several authors write under the name Samsonov and that they do not coordinate tests with each other.

[avva2012]

In general, I begin to get the impression that several authors write under the name Samsonov and that they do not coordinate tests with each other.

Unfortunately, I don’t remember the commentator’s nickname, but he had the emblem of the political defense party on his avatar, so he wrote that A. Samsonov had already passed away. I don’t know, true or not.

[Curious]

Perhaps the man was referring to the Soviet historian Samsonov Alexander Mikhailovich, who died in 1992.

[avva2012]

Most likely, because, the article under discussion by A. Samsonov was about the Battle of Stalingrad.

[Curious]

The practice of literary negroism lives and thrives. But the "owner" must control the process, especially when the plot is twisted like a pig’s tail.
The author issues in a hurry for an article per day. Maybe he just does not have time to remove the thought of the previous author from the material that compiles? It turns out a kind of dualism.

[DimerVladimer]

It all started with a carelessly thrown off guard stub at the Porokhovaya railway station. Grass caught fire from him, then scattered boards.

How many military depots have burned out or exploded in Russia since the 2000s?

in Russia, military depots in Bashkiria and Udmurtia were burning sequentially. Several people died, more than 50 thousand had to be evacuated. An ordinary soldier who violated the "rules for handling weapons" has already been called guilty in one of the fires.

According to the Ministry of Defense, material damage amounted to over 100 million rubles. By May 27, this fire was eliminated, however, explosions were heard on May 30. But by that time, the military department and the prosecutor’s office had even installed a “switchman” - it turned out to be Private Sergey Deniaev, who was accused of “violating the rules for handling weapons” - he threw a sleeve from the shell with a detonator capsule on the floor.

A few days after the events in Bashkiria, a fire in a military depot occurred in Udmurtia. Here, on June 2, a fire broke out at one of the warehouses of the 102nd arsenal of the Central Military District (near the village of Pugachevo), covering 18 stores with shells. Three people were killed, 75 people were injured, about 30 thousand civilians were evacuated from the fire zone.

The Interpreter's Blog has compiled a brief and incomplete statistics of explosions at military depots in Russia over the past almost 20 years:

1992 year
May 14 - explosion of the arsenal of the Pacific Fleet in Vladivostok (Second River area). 240 cars of mines, grenades, artillery shells flew into the air. The explosions lasted for three days.

[DimerVladimer]

1994 year
May 14 - a fire in the warehouse of aviation ammunition near Vladivostok. 1,5 thousand tons of ammunition exploded, dozens of people were injured.

October 20 - a fire in the ammunition depots of the Pskov paratrooper division. Three people died, seven were injured. 11 storages burned down.

1995 year
March 30 - 2 thousand tons of artillery and machine-gun ammunition exploded near Talovy (Primorye).

1997 year
April 27 - an explosion of ammunition in army depots near the village of Bira (Jewish Autonomous Region). Shells, grenades, mines were scattered within a radius of 10 kilometers.
November 11 - a fire at a mine and torpedo warehouse in the village of Gornostai (Primorye).

1998 year
February 25 - a fire in army warehouses in the Volgograd region. 1600 artillery shells exploded.
April - the fire of the military depots of one of the military units of the 5th combined arms army in the Border region near the village of Baranovo-Orenburg. The artillery depot was engulfed in fire, where shells, hangars with military equipment, and a supply of fuel and lubricants began to burst.
June 4 - a train with ammunition to be disposed of exploded near Arzamas; 91 people died, about a thousand were injured. Destroyed 185 houses, damaged 1090.
June 16 - a fire in the ammunition depots of the Ural military district in the village of Losiny. 11 people were killed, 17 injured, 1 missing.

1999 year
June 12 - explosion at artillery depots in the village of Columban (Volgograd Region).

[DimerVladimer]

2000 year
May 18 - explosions in artillery depots near St. Petersburg.
May 21 - an explosion at an ammunition depot near the port of Vanino (Primorye).

2001 year

June 21 - fire and explosions in an army warehouse near Nerchinsk (Chita region).
September 21 - a fire in artillery depots near the village of Gusinoe Lake 120 kilometers from Ulan-Ude.

2002 year
July 10 - a fire in the warehouse of the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation in the village of Serdovina near Syzran.
October 16 - fire and explosions in the ammunition depot of the Pacific Fleet in Vladivostok.
Several large fires at military depots in Buryatia and near St. Petersburg.

2003 year
June 19 - a fire in the warehouse of an artillery base in the area in the Selemdzhinsky district of the Amur Region.

2005 year
May 17 - fire and explosions in the repair shop of depth charges in the Kronstadt military garrison.
September 30 - fire and detonation in open areas where ammunition intended for disposal was stored in the village of South Koryaki (Kamchatka).

2008 year
May 23 - a fire in the warehouse of aviation munitions of the 6th Army of the Air Force and Air Defense at a military airfield in the area of ​​Lodeynoye Pole (Leningrad Region). In an hour, stocks of air-to-air missiles of an entire aviation regiment burned down. 450 missiles for Su-27 fighter interceptors were stored at the warehouse. Basically, R-27 missiles of various modifications.

2009 year
November 13 - fire of the ammunition depot of the FSUE “31st Arsenal” of the Russian Navy in the Zavolzhsky District of Ulyanovsk. According to preliminary data, the cause of the incident was violations during the disposal of shells. The governor of the Ulyanovsk region Sergey Morozov said that the damage from the explosions at the ammunition depot in Ulyanovsk amounted to about 200 million rubles.

2010 year

April - a fire in the territory of the disbanded military base near Vladikavkaz. Four guards were allowed to go home on the day of the fire.
October - fires at military depots in the village of Arga, Seryshevsky District, Amur Region ...
Etc...

So man-made disasters are a local horse.

[DimerVladimer]

18 May 2012, a fire occurred at the artillery shells warehouse in Primorye, followed by an explosion of ammunition. Two servicemen were injured.
On June 11, 2012, a fire broke out in the warehouses of military unit No. 96558 in the Orenburg Region, resulting in explosions of ammunition. Two people were injured.
On June 18, 2013, in the Samara Region, a series of explosions of shells (during the liquidation of live shells at a training ground near the city of Chapaevsk), stored in an open way, took place at the Volga State Ammunition Test Range FKP, then a fire broke out. At the range were more than 10,5 million shells. Almost 6,5 thousand residents were evacuated from the danger zone. One person died, more than 40 were injured.


2014
On August 28, in Perm, in a military warehouse, in preparation for the transportation of gunpowder, it spontaneously ignited. The resulting fire was quickly eliminated. As a result of the incident, five warehouse employees were injured, two of whom were hospitalized.

On the night of April 30, a large fire occurred in the ammunition depot in the village of Bolshaya Tura, Karymsky District (probably spreading from burning forests), followed by a series of powerful explosions. It was reported that 11 people were killed, another 29 were injured. More than 2 thousand people were evacuated from neighboring villages. In total, over 250 thousand tons of ammunition were stored in the warehouse - about 4 thousand conventional wagons.

2015
On June 3, a fire broke out in a warehouse with gunpowder on the territory of a military unit near the village of Urman (again - for the first time in 2011) in Iglinsky district of Bashkiria. Dry grass caught fire near the warehouse, then the fire spread to the warehouse, followed by explosions. The cause of the fire on the territory of the military unit was the careless handling of gunpowder during disposal, which was carried out by the organization "Vtormetall".

Is there something wrong with the army, don’t you? Is the place cursed?

[avva2012]

Lieutenant Teterin,
Fantastic acting, lieutenant! Lenin really was the most humane person.

[Alexander Greene]

On the legality of Soviet power.

The actions of the Soviets of workers', peasants' and soldiers' deputies in 1917 were legal because they expressed the interests of the majority of the people - workers and peasants.

But the Provisional Government was a self-proclaimed body that illegally appropriated power in the state. No one has chosen this government. And although it appropriated the functions of the legislature, it did not have the right to do so. Legislative power can only be obtained as a result of popular will.

The only elected body of then-Russia were the Soviets.
Thus, in October 1917, the legislative power represented by the All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers 'and Soldiers' Deputies, which were soon joined by peasant councils, changed the executive branch: the Provisional Government was replaced by the Council of People's Commissars.

From the point of view of law - everything happened legitimately. The Congress began work on October 25 at 22 hours 40 minutes, the Provisional Government was removed on October 26 at 2 hours 10 minutes, and at 5 in the morning the Congress announced the transfer of power into the hands of the Soviets.
Therefore, all other "governments" opposed to the Bolsheviks, especially during the civil war, were illegal. Nobody elected them.

The Constituent Assembly would be legitimate if it recognized the decrees of the Soviets of Workers', Peasants' and Soldiers' Deputies About the world and about the earth. And since it refused to accept them, i.e. rejected all the wishes of the majority of the people, it acted counter-revolutionary, so the All-Russian Central Executive Committee dissolved the constituent assembly. This action was also legitimate.

[IvanTheTerrible]

Also say that collectivization was legal, because it expressed and the interests of most of the people.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: IvanTheTerrible

Also say that collectivization was legal, because it expressed and the interests of most of the people.

Very legitimate and legitimate, because really was carried out in the interests of the majority of the people, because as a result of collectivization, the marketability of agriculture increased, the poor gained confidence in tomorrow, the threat of annual hunger no longer hung over them, the city received regular deliveries of food, the kulaks were freed from slavish dependence on their private economy, besides this, culture came to the village with collectivization.
It is only the appearance that a large peasant farm can feed the whole country, in fact, peasant farms became smaller and smaller every year and many could no longer even feed themselves. For example, a strong master has three sons, the time comes when they take their father by the throat and demand the division of the household. And a large farm is divided into three small ones, each son also has three growing offspring, who in turn also long for the division of the father's farm and the selected farms are again divided into three even smaller parts ...
This is the road to nowhere. The destruction of private ownership of land stopped this process.

[IvanTheTerrible]

And the fact that the peasants were deprived of the right of ownership of the land for which they paid redemption payments for decades is absolutely nothing. The peasants were so delighted with the long-awaited violent collectivization that spontaneous anti-government uprisings swept across the country with weapons in their hands.
Price scissors: selling products to farmers at very high prices with buying their products at a very low price and taxes, taxes, taxes - this is it, the colossal paradise of the Jugashivli. You think people robbed the government - but then the power is not bourgeois, but ours, the people’s, workers and peasants - you need to understand the difference.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: IvanTheTerrible

Very legitimate and legitimate, because really was carried out in the interests of the majority of the people

Do not listen to the green - this one was still misinterpreting reality, the person did not integrate into modernity and now dreams of former privileges.
A person who has lived all his life in the city, seeing collective farms only in “happy Soviet cinema” - now actively assures everyone “what good were the collective farms” - an idiot and a liar.

[long in stock.]

Well, enlighten us. You certainly found collectivization and collective farms. Moreover, they systematically and for a long time worked on the collective farm. right?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: IvanTheTerrible

Think people robbed power

The “Land Decree” was based on peasant orders drawn up on the basis of local peasant orders, the essence of which was the abolition of private ownership of land, the elimination of landowner land tenure, nationalization of the land, its transfer to the disposal of peasant organizations and equalizing land use.
Having received land, the peasants of our country began to massively, and independently, on the basis of peasant communities, unite in the Society for joint land cultivation (combining land allotments, for the convenience of cultivating them) and create trade and purchasing cooperatives for conducting trade and procurement operations. These, in essence, were the forerunners of collective farms — agricultural cooperatives. Collectivization is simply legalized.

The charter of the agricultural artel land was assigned to the artel for indefinite use, was not subject to either sale or lease. In addition, peasants retained personal plots. After the adoption of the Charter in 1935, many peasant families even increased the size of allotments.

[avva2012]

Quote: Alexander Green This is the road to nowhere. The destruction of private ownership of land stopped this process.

In general, there are people who want to speculate about the “Russian matrix” when it is profitable, but they immediately forget about it when the “matrix” contradicts their own speculations. So, in the traditions of the Russian peasantry (community) there was an idea that the Earth cannot belong to ANYONE, because, in fact, it belongs to God. Accordingly, the sale of land is not just illegal, but a godly action. Forget about it, "lovers of the Russian people", the descendants of the fists and elders.

[Shurale]

You are right, but the question is more fundamental. It is necessary to read Marx, Lenin, Stalin. Collectivization is one of the stages on the road to communism, and it is impossible to get around it, another conversation is what methods to conduct it, in the case of Stalin, in my opinion, collectivization was carried out gently, for comparison you can see how collectivization was carried out in other countries, for example in England.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Alexander Green

It is only the appearance that a large peasant farm can feed the whole country, in fact, peasant farms became smaller and smaller every year and many could no longer even feed themselves.

Tell American farmers how peasant farming cannot feed the country, only hear about crises of overproduction of agricultural products in the USA.
You are broadcasting the myth of the Bolsheviks.
It was just that the Bolsheviks had nothing to offer the peasants - the specialists left, the plants did not work, there is no money in the treasury, what would buy the grain out?
As always, the Bolsheviks-take away! Those. surplus appraisal, expropriation What led to peasant uprisings.
What the Bolsheviks knew well was to take and punish. They tried to force the people to work for free, having driven part of the people into collective farms (the rest went to the cities). However, an attempt to organize labor on uninitiated methods led, ultimately, to the crisis and economic collapse of the 90s.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: DimerVladimer

Tell American farmers how peasant farming cannot feed the country, only hear about crises of overproduction of agricultural products in the USA.

And ask them yourself, they will tell you how their state subsidizes.

[motorized rifle]

Who was right there, who is to blame, we still can’t influence it. But we can, on this basis, harm Russia. Duty phrase: it seems to me alone that the lieutenant and Diana are one and the same person, or at least slurp from the same trough? As there in the "Examiner" the mayor's wife instructed to sort out someone's quarrel: "Yes, and punish both ..." We must take a closer look at the lovers of communists and monarchists, and both of them can be imprisoned or ....

[avva2012]

Quote: bober1982

Are these also not a pity ?, of which they recruited to the POA, for soldering, there were a million of them, and they will be, and there were, it's a sweet word, food and life.
So sorry for these people or not?

You are engaged in demagogy. Those who went to the ROA, no, but those who did not change the oath, yes! For that they starved them and mocked Mr. Hitler’s, don’t you know? They were prisoners of war. What is signed by the Council of People's Commissars or not in terms of international treaties, does it really matter? The Reichstag then ratified, which means they had to comply. And in general, I did not understand you about pity, it was about traitors, and you posted photos of surrendering Red Army soldiers? Is it the same for you to surrender and betray your homeland?

for soldering, there were a million of them, and they will be, and there were- this is a sweet word, food and life.

For soldering, some not only betray their homeland, but also do something else ..... (see zone). Your psychology in this vein is understandable, the main thing is life.

[Shurale]

Where is the civilian? Come on about the civilian !!!

[Koshnitsa]

Quote: Shurale

for comparison, you can see how collectivization was carried out in other countries, for example in England.

PURE-PURE?