What is dangerous Ukrainian T-72AMT? "Critical parameters" of the new tank of the aggressor, which should take into account the sun of New Russia

116


During the visit of US Secretary of Defense James Mattis to the “Square” (24 August 2017), it finally became clear that supplies to the Ukrainian military units of lethal weapons would sooner or later be included in the list of operations of the United States Department of Defense Military Cooperation (DSCA). The implementation of this stage of military-technical support can go through both foreign military sales (“Foreign Military Sales”, FMS), and through completely different arms transfer channels to the US allies. The head of the US defense department said that a few weeks ago a document had already been signed for the delivery of an unnamed "equipment" to Kiev with a total value of $ 175 million. The amount is very impressive. For example, it may provide for the supply of X / NUMX anti-battery AN / TPQ-5 “Firefinder II” artillery reconnaissance radars with a range of enemy artillery batteries in 37 — 50 km, as well as a huge number of anti-tank complexes (from “TOW” to “Javelina”) and means of passive electronic intelligence.



So far, information on this matter has not been disclosed, but judging by Poroshenko’s “glowing face” during the briefing, a lot has been promised. However, we can learn about the details immediately after the actual “fall” of the next “school truce”, but for now let's run a little ahead and consider the technical qualities of the modernized Ukrainian MBT T-72АМТ, which in the next few months, in the amount of several dozen units, will go into service with Ukrainian armored units in the Donbass and will be used against buildings NM LDNR. What should the military personnel of the New Russia army know for successful opposition to this MBT?

About 2 months ago, we conducted a detailed technological review of the main combat vehicles reconstructed at the Kharkov Armored Plant tanks type T-80B / BV, which step by step take up service in the front-line units of the Armed Forces. Very negative news It became the presence of the "Square" unique gas turbine engines GTD-1250, which are also installed on the Russian T-80U. This power plant will give Ukrainian vehicles unprecedented dynamic performance, allowing you to accelerate to speeds of 85 - 90 km / h with a specific power in 27,8 hp / t, which will create considerable difficulties in hunting for them from the tank units and anti-tank forces of the DPR. The availability of OBT data gives ukram the opportunity to carry out a sudden and lightning “breakthrough” of the anti-tank frontier corps of the People’s Militia of the DPR in the area of ​​such settlements as Kominternovo, Belaya Kamenka, Novolasp or Styl only due to its speed characteristics. As for long-term tank battles, the T-80BV for these purposes is adapted poorly enough.

Firstly, the equivalent resistance of the frontal projection of the hull and turret of this tank leaves much to be desired. The upper frontal part of the hull is durable within 430 mm from BOPS and can be pierced with armor-piercing projectiles ZBM-42М Lekalo, ZBM-22 Pin and VBM-32 Vant at a distance of 1200 — 1300 m. shells does not exceed 900 mm (depending on the angle of the meeting of the cumulative jet and the surface of the frontal armored plate). Taking into account the modules of the remote contact “Contact-1”, protection is provided against such CSs as 9K115 “Metis”, “Baby” and one-piece RPG-7 variants. From the tandem “kuma” of type PG-7BP, 9М131М “Metis-М1” and “Konkurs-M”, the upper frontal part T-80BB in the classic version will not protect. The situation with the armorlessness of the tower (taking into account the DZ "Kontakt-1") is the same: the resistance from BOPS is 540 mm, from the COP - 900 mm, which is not much better than in the case with the case. All the same “thin-walled” cast tower is used, the side projections of which easily make their way from the RPG-7, the RPG-26 “Agleni” and the LNG-9. Aft projection can be punched even from 30-mm automatic gun type 2А42М. The people's corps of the LNNR militia have all the necessary range of anti-tank weapons to fight Ukrainian T-80BV. Even if the Ukrainian T-80BV tankers temporarily advance into the operational depth of the LDNR, in the very first hours they will be completely defeated by anti-tank calculations and motorized infantry of the LDNR armies using the Metis-M, Fagot and Konkurs-M complexes ".

With the upgraded T-72AMT, the situation is a bit different. To support "lightning-fast" offensive operations, these machines cannot because of the use of the standard 840-strong diesel engine B-84-1. This power plant allows you to realize a speed of no more than 60 km / h, mediocre traction capabilities and power density of the order of 19,5 hp / t, given that the weight of the machine reaches 43 tons after equipping with a complex of dynamic protection and huge anti-cumulative fences on the side and stern armor plates towers. In terms of dynamic qualities, T-72АМТ is about 45% inferior to gas turbine T-80Б / В. But the bronze protection of this machine may not be a very pleasant "surprise" for tankers and anti-tank forces of the armies of Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. For example, if the T-80B / BV modernized at the Kharkiv Armored Plant are covered with a hinged dynamic protection of the Contact-1 type, which absolutely does not provide an increase in durability from armor-piercing projectiles, T-72AMT is covered by a combined DZ as on the basis of "Contact -1 ", and on the basis of many times more efficient complex built DZ" Knife ".

The principle of operation of the elements of dynamic protection HACCK-19 / 34 "Knife" is fundamentally different from the method of anti-shear action of the elements 4-20 "Contact-1". If in the second case, the stopping and destructive effect on the cumulative jet or armor-piercing core is extinguished by metal plates that are fired towards the attacking element due to the detonation of the built-in package with an explosive, then in the first case, several flat cumulative protective jets are used against the attacking cumulative jet or core . The latter occur after the initiation of explosive charges in “month-shaped” tubular explosive packs, tightly packed in EHL CASKV-19 / 34. Consequently, the Knife DZ modules increase the equivalent durability of tank projections approximately 1,8 - 1,9 times, a similar increase in security is observed in the case of single-piece cumulative projectiles; Resistance from tandem COPs increases approximately 1,2 times. Moreover, 60% increase in durability from anti-tank weapons of the “shock core” type is being implemented. Now we apply these figures to the standard security of the T-72A tanks, on the basis of which the Kiev Kiev Armored Plant produces the updated version of the T-72АМТ.

It is well known that the equivalent stability of the frontal projection of the T-72A tank, although insignificantly, exceeds the indicators of the T-72М1 supplied to the Warsaw Pact countries. The envelope of the frontal armor caste of the tower is represented by three main layers: the outer and the rear steel armored plates and the central niche in which the special reservation is located on the basis of “sand cores” fastened with steel reinforcement. This type of special reservation for the T-72A tower (“176 Object”) initially provided 37% increase in durability from cumulative projectiles in comparison with the U-T early X-72 tower (560 against 410 mm, respectively). The stability of the frontal armor of the tower from BOPS is 500 mm without DZ. After placing the EHD HOSCHKV-19 / 34 “Knife”, it increases to approximately 850 — 900 (with frontal shelling) and to 650 — 500 mm (when shelling at safe maneuvering corners ± 20 - 35 °). To pierce such a tower with an ordinary BOPS "Hairpin", "Vant" and "Lekalo" in a frontal attack on the tank units of NM LDNR will not work even with 700 — 1000.

Destroy the upgraded T-72AMT with the above shells will only happen if you hit a little to the right of the gun, where Ukrainian “virtuosos of tank building” (by analogy with T-80BB) instead of the Noz modules, placed an infrared searchlight. If we consider the security of the T-72AMT tower from the CS (taking into account the presence of the “Knife”), then with 0 degrees to the normal, stability in 1000 - 1050 mm from monoblock PTURS and 700 mm - from tandem ones is provided. As a result, during a frontal attack in the tower, T-72AMT can be hit by such anti-tank systems as Metis-M, Cornet-E, Competition-M, or RPG-28 Cranberry, but not Metis. , RPG-7 (including PG-7BP shot), etc. The only exception is the small sector of the infrared illuminator to the right of the gun mask (equivalent resistance here is about 370 - 450 mm).

The stability of the side projections of the “Knife” turret (within the range of shelling ± 35 degrees) reaches 600 — 700 mm both from the armor-piercing cores and from the cumulative projectiles. The same numbers for various types of armor-piercing effects are observed due to the fact that the side projections do not have niches filled with “sand cores”, which increase the anti-cumulative potential of the armor. These sites can be pierced with the help of RPG-28 “Kryukva”, RPG-29 “Vampire” and the ATGM “Metis-M1”. Outside the 35-degree angle from the longitudinal axis of the gun (≥35 °), the sides of the turret are almost “cardboard” and are not covered by DZ elements, and therefore they can be punched both from ordinary “Baby” or “Fagot”, and through “boots” (LNG-9), Metis, Flies, or the Aglene RPG-26.

With the security of the upper frontal parts of the case the situation is much more complicated. It is represented by a 3-layer barrier, consisting of an 60-mm outer steel sheet, an 105-mm fiberglass laminate plate, and a back plate with an 50 mm envelope. At an inclination angle in 68 ° to the normal, we have a physical dimension of 573 mm and equivalent resistance from BOPS - 420 mm. Nothing better than Kiev specialists to put on 4C20 “Contact-1” on VLD EDS was not invented by the Kiev experts, and therefore we see absolutely no increase in the protective qualities of kinetic projectiles. Taking into account the thickness of the DZ 4C20 modules and a small high-explosive effect at the time of their initiation, the resistance of VLD to armor-piercing projectiles can reach 430 - 440 mm. For breaking through such a barrier, standard 125-mm feathered armored-piercing sub-caliber projectiles ZBM-23 "Pin", ZBM-27 "Nadezhda-R" and ZBM-30 "Nadfil-2" are perfect. In this case, the range may be close to 2100 m.

The armored security of the T-72AMT WTD tank from cumulative action (taking into account Contact-1) can reach 900 - 950 mm, which causes it to break through with almost any tandem-based cumulative means (from RPG-7 with an RPG-to-RP-AI-X-RP-87). -7 "Tavolga", not to mention the tandem ATGW). The upper frontal part of the T-27AMT can be considered the second most vulnerable spot of the tank, immediately after the uncovered area with an IR illuminator on the turret (to the right of the gun).

The side projections of the T-72АМТ case are well protected. Not only that the onboard armor plates have an 80 mm size in the area of ​​the mechanical drive and combat compartment work station with a thinning to 70 mm in the engine-transmission compartment area (at corners ± 20 ° from the tank heading, this gives the steel equivalent 204 and respectively) An additional element of the reservation of these sites can be considered and huge 245-millimeter track rollers, which add another couple of tens of millimeters of resistance (depending on the angle of fire). Airborne protivokumulyativnye screens add a few tens of millimeters. But their main drawback can be considered an extremely small width, which does not allow covering most of the hull and rollers, which is why kinetic and cumulative projectiles can easily penetrate the hull, despite the large rollers. One more minus, undoubtedly, can be considered an extremely small area of ​​coverage of anti-cumulative screens as elements of remote sensing. As for the enormous anti-cumulative “fencing lattices”, covering the onboard and stern projections of the CI chy; t, the CI chapters, or with the 750-xnumx BMP cannons, or shelling with RPG-72 assault grenades of the OGs, and the chapters of the CI 30A2 guns, or shelling from RPG-42 with splitting grenades of the OGs; the grille will be for the T-7AMT “like a dead poultice”: it will very quickly turn into a “leaky colander”, after which cumulative means will be used and the tank will be safely destroyed. A similar technique is also applicable to the anti-cumulative grill covering the stern armor plates of the hull, including MTO with an ejector cooling system.


MBT T-72AMT


Another constructive feature, on the contrary, markedly increases the survivability of the modernized Ukrainian MBT. We are talking about the horizontal placement of the ammunition in the mechanism of the automatic loading of the tank, thanks to which the area of ​​the projection of the side sheets, which penetration leads to the detonation of the pack and the death of the crew, is reduced by several times. In particular, MBT T-64 BM "Bulat" have a vertical ammunition, which leads to the destruction of tanks, even from single precision shots from the RPG-7 or LNG-9 to the center of the on-board armor plates of the hull. Nevertheless, despite the loss of a certain number of Bulatovs in the Donbass, these machines proved to be very worthy thanks to the excellent armor protection of the tower with the help of the dynamic protection of the Knife. Thus, according to the stories of one of the crews of Bulat Bulat 30 of the APU brigade, 12 February 2015, in the tank confrontation under Logvinovo (Debaltsevo HE), elements of the Noz DZ reflected the penetration of an armor-piercing projectile projectile and even allowed the Ukramins to continue the fight with further the destruction of the T-72 army of New Russia.

This case confirms our calculations: the Knife modules increase the frontal durability of the T-64BM and T-72A towers to 850 - 900 mm, and therefore republican tankers cannot break them even with the same Lekal without resorting to tricks with firing at weakened sections of the tower. This applies to both the Bulat and the T-72AMT. One of the advantages of the “Knife” is the dense location of the EDZ HSChKV-19/34 (between the modules on the tower there are no cracks exposing the frontal armor plates). The main battle tanks T-72A / B of the LPR People’s Militia Corps are distinguished by the presence of the Contact-1 DZ (which does not protect against BOPS) or Contact-5. Despite the fact that the latter increases resistance to BFPS by approximately 20-30%, its 4C22 elements do not form a continuous protective surface (large gaps are observed between the elements, which can easily penetrate the BPS core). Also, in order to maintain an overview of the sighting system of the gunner, to the left of the mask of the gun there are no elements of remote sensing. Nonetheless, weapons Donbass craftsmen were able to improve Contact-5 by adding thick rubber pendants with Contact-4 elements 22C4 at the edges to the wedge-shaped joints of elements 20C1. As a result, the “boxes” of “Contact-1” reliably overlap tower epaulets (there is no such advanced “dodger” on Ukrainian cars).


MBT T-64BM "Bulat"


A separate point is to consider the sighting complex of the T-72AMT gunner. The basis for day and night tank battles is the far from advanced combined surveillance and targeting complex 1K13-49 "Neman", which provides overview and guidance in television and infrared sighting channels, as well as semi-automatic laser guidance of the TUR. At the same time, at night, in passive IR mode, the target identification range reaches 500 - 600 m; during infrared illumination - 1200 m. The field of view in night mode reaches only 6 ° 4`. On the face of a very mediocre night fighting qualities. For example: the detection range of a "tank" -type target at night by means of the thermal imaging sighting device of the TPV "Sosna-U" gunner reaches 3000 m, identification - about 2000 m.

Considering that this sighting system, which fell on the Voentorg line, was already seen on the “Seventy-second” corps of the LDNR People’s Militia, then T-72AMT punitive units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with their “Nemani” have no chance to destroy the tank forces of the New Russia army under the cover of night. The Sosny-U review sector reaches 9º x 6,75º with the resolution of the displayed infrared 640x460 (on the 5,7-inch LCD display). Against this ukry will not be able to oppose. Tankers-defenders of Novorossia will be able to open fire almost 2 times earlier than tankers of the Ukrainian military formations. The only problem is that far from all modifications of the Donbass “Urals” are equipped with this gunner aiming complex, but after the delivery of the first “package” of American lethal weapons to Kiev, the situation may change.

In the day mode, the Neman’s target identification range is 5000 m, which is quite acceptable. The complex also has an integrated laser channel for the semi-automatic control of the 125-mm tank battled Kombat missile with a range of 5000. This ATGM can create a lot of trouble for tank crews of LDNR armies, because its armor penetration can reach 650 — 750 mm in DZ. Not one modification of the T-72 (including the “B3”) does not have full protection against the “Combat”. The only exceptions are those "Seventy-second", which are equipped with a complex of dynamic protection "Relic" and KAZ. The tanks of the NM LDNR buildings "Relic", unfortunately, do not have. But the militia can respond tank TURN 9K120 "Svir" or "Cobra" (applied to the T-64BV or future trophy T-80BV).

On most T-72AV / B armored units of the NM DNR there are obsolete 1K13-49, equalizing the chances of night battles with the Armed Forces of Ukraine. At the same time, due to the best protective qualities of the DZ “Knife”, the upgraded “Bulaty” and T-72АМТ can even get a noticeable superiority over the tanks of the Armed Forces of New Russia. The use of the aforementioned improved Ukrainian MBT (we will add high-speed T-80BV to this list) can be observed only in the most important operational areas (new Azov, Telman or Debalt). Nobody will send these vehicles, which are scarce for the junta, to Donetsk or Gorlovka.

As a subtotal of our review, it is worth noting that the upgraded MBT T-72АМТ, which can be adopted by the Ukrainian military units in the number of 200 and more units, are distinguished by a sufficiently high bronze-proofness due to the DZ "Knife". And therefore, if they are used in one or another operational direction, anti-tankers of the Armed Forces of the DPR should be as prepared for their “frontal meeting” as possible, where the enemy’s mechanical leads will try to keep the vehicle bodies in the corners of safe maneuvering (there will be very few vulnerable zones) .

Preparation consists in equipping the advanced anti-tank calculations of NM LDNR, which will be the first to meet Ukrainian tanks, with tandem anti-tank systems (Metis-M, Konkurs-M) or with grenade launchers with Tavolga, Klukva and Vampire". No "Bassoon", "Baby", "Metis", RPG-22 and RPG-26 with a single-blooded "godfather" weather will not do here. And most importantly, do not forget about the bad night opportunities of the SLA of the new punitive brainchild of Square.

Information sources:
http://news.eizvestia.com/news_technology/full/908-ukrainskij-tyuning-t-72amt-zloj-odessit-foto
http://www.btvt.narod.ru/4/t-72.htm
http://armor.kiev.ua/Tank/dz/1.php
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/apfsds/ammo_r.html
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116 comments
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  1. +14
    28 August 2017 06: 37
    The fighting qualities of the armored vehicles are approximately equal, that one, that the other side is armed with Soviet modernized tanks, I think, the training and coordination of the crews, as well as the comprehensive support of the battle, will be crucial. Common truths!
    1. +12
      28 August 2017 07: 40
      Really at such a speed, these tanks can slip through an anti-tank mine? belay
      1. +5
        28 August 2017 08: 34
        I was also "pleased" with the opus about the high-speed characteristics of the tank. The author was "stuck" in the thirties of the last century, when they considered BT - "elusive American." True, the war in Spain made other adjustments ...
        1. +9
          28 August 2017 13: 01
          Quote: Leader of the Redskins
          The author was "stuck" in the thirties of the last century

          That's right!
          Yes, he knew many different names and terms, which is easy.
          But the conclusions about the real effectiveness of the DZ "knife", etc. are doubtful. Such data is usually secret and various kinds of stories, often just fiction ...
          Considering the same balcony about the possibilities of a tank attack at speeds of 90 km / h and the discussion about a "horizontal combat deployment", which "several times" increases the vulnerable area of ​​a tank equipped with a MZ (ie T-64, T-80) compared to AZ (T-72, T-90) article can be recognized as not having professional value.
          PS
          For clarity: in the loading mechanism (MZ), the projectile lies in a folding tray parallel to the bottom of the tank, and the charge is vertically at 90 degrees on it.
          In the automatic loader (AZ), the charge lies above the projectile parallel to it in a special cartridge.
          The difference in height of these warheads is 30-40 centimeters.
          If the cumulative ammunition penetrates the side armor, then not only the residual cumulative jet, but also flying hot fragments of the armor can be damaged, which reduces the relevance of the "side projection area" of the ammunition.
          The T-72, T-90 tanks have some advantage (small) in that this same projection is almost completely closed by the relatively large diameter track rollers.
          But getting into the area of ​​mechanized combat deployment is unlikely, especially with the right tactics of using tanks.
          1. +6
            28 August 2017 15: 48
            I quote - ... "Given the balcony about the possibilities of a tank attack at speeds of 90 km / h ..."

            The author, apparently, replayed in Worldoftanks.
      2. +6
        28 August 2017 08: 52
        Quote: siberalt
        Really at such a speed, these tanks can slip through an anti-tank mine?

        Not only an anti-tank mine, but also an anti-tank moat, the Volga, the Volga region, the Urals and the Pacific Ocean to end your campaign.
        1. +3
          28 August 2017 12: 23
          those. Do they have any brakes?
          1. +7
            28 August 2017 13: 02
            empirically checked that in the region of 80 km the tank is not controlled from the word at all)))
          2. +1
            28 August 2017 13: 54
            Quote: novel xnumx
            those. Do they have any brakes?

            Absolutely. The author’s fantasies are endless.
          3. +1
            29 August 2017 06: 38
            Brakes were invented by cowards.
      3. +4
        28 August 2017 16: 06
        Quote: siberalt
        Really at such a speed, these tanks can slip through an anti-tank mine? belay

        there’s more of a “problem” for the Khokhlovoyak themselves, if they accelerate the tanks to 90 km / h !! wassat good laughing laughing laughing
    2. +4
      29 August 2017 04: 46
      Precisely noticed! But, I don’t remember exactly at the West’s exercises in 1982 (4), since the raised command couldn’t even move the new tanks, the crews were replaced by test drivers of the Malyshev plant and officers (the window dressing is a window dressing) they naturally showed the upper class . I think that on the latest tanks the APU will do so in the event of a decision to break through. On the rest will sit soldiers and Natsik with a level of training below average.
  2. +3
    28 August 2017 06: 59
    Again about the "knife", not tired?
  3. +5
    28 August 2017 07: 28
    As the saying goes, the battle will show. There it will be seen what the real ukromaster has been piled up.
    Do not forget that give the alternative to the gifted individual any thing, he will find how to spoil it or to fall in love.
  4. +11
    28 August 2017 08: 00
    What is dangerous Ukrainian T-72AMT?

    The phrase "dangerous" and "Ukrainian" is ridiculous. Riding horses can only kill peaceful women and children, as they killed 100 thousand Polish women and children in Volhynia in 1943, and are doing it now in the Donbass. When I ask these pots, with foam at the mouth, claiming that they are at war with the Russian army, why they are not going to "liberate" the Crimea, because what difference does it make to fight with the Russian army in the Crimea or in the Donbass, I don’t get any answer, in The answer is complete silence.
    1. +20
      28 August 2017 09: 52
      Quote: Lgankhi
      The phrase "dangerous" and "Ukrainian" is ridiculous. Skakuas can only kill peaceful women and children, as they killed 100 of thousands of Polish women and children in Volyn in 1943, and they are doing it now in the Donbass.

      Recently, patriotic couch analysts have looked very absurd on the site. You, by chance, were not interested in the loss of the armies of the DPR and LPR during the liberation of Debaltseve? So, just in case, before writing any conclusions?

      Quote: Lgankhi
      When I ask these pots, with foam at the mouth, claiming that they are fighting with the Russian army, why they are not going to “liberate” the Crimea, because what difference does it make to fight with the Russian army in Crimea or in the Donbass, I don’t get any answer, in The answer is complete silence.
      I believe that the "pots" that really fight will not waste time communicating with you. At least, at least because of the use of the term "pots".
      In general, Internet battles in the spirit of "who overwhelms whom" are very characteristic of couch special forces, which are heavier than members .... spoons did not hold anything in their hands.
      1. +6
        28 August 2017 10: 22
        Yeah, but you, apparently, Rambo, past hundreds of battles and defeating thousands of enemies wassat . What-what, but from you for a thousand kilometers it carries fat.
        1. +15
          28 August 2017 11: 54
          Quote: Lgankhi
          Yeah, but you, apparently, Rambo, past hundreds of battles and defeating thousands of enemies wassat . What-what, but from you for a thousand kilometers it carries fat.

          What a deep level of discussion!
          Dear, if you think that I am eager to be proud of my track record in front of you, then I will disappoint you. Firstly, you are not even interesting to me for educational purposes, and secondly, I am absolutely sure that what is written about me on the infamous website Peacemaker is more than enough.

          As for the fat - there are several characters in the VO who had the opportunity to try Ukrainian fat. Even one well-known expert on Japanese culture from Vladivostok, being in Donetsk, tried, realized and imbued. Salo is a very healthy and tasty product.
          Perhaps dislike for fat - is this something you have to do with religious feelings? So a competent rabbi may allow. The rabbis are exceptionally wise. You ask.
          1. 0
            28 August 2017 12: 12
            Are you a peacemaker online? Do not tell my slippers :)))). You are more serious than air, did not shoot.
            Z.Y. Pork is a very harmful and tasteless product. And fat is all the more, because it is solid fat. I’m better than eating beef.
            1. +2
              16 September 2017 19: 27
              Lard is considered a dietary, easily digestible product. I am ashamed to sign my ignorance
      2. +6
        28 August 2017 16: 15
        Quote: Mik13
        You, by chance, were not interested in the loss of the armies of the DPR and LPR during the liberation of Debaltseve?


        Do you have real data ??? and there is still real data on the loss of Ukrainians in Debaltsevsky Cauldron ?? what But in general, do you have data on the war ??? now, let’s say, they told me that for all the time, according to the losses of the militias, there were about 10 thousand dead, the svidamya had about 50 thousand corpses !!! and how then we will decide whose data is objective, and whose just fantasy ???
      3. +1
        29 August 2017 07: 27
        Quote: Mik13
        The phrase "dangerous" and "Ukrainian" is ridiculous. Skakuas can only kill peaceful women and children, as they killed 100 of thousands of Polish women and children in Volyn in 1943, and they are doing it now in the Donbass.
        Recently, patriotic couch analysts have looked very absurd on the site. You, by chance, were not interested in the loss of the armies of the DPR and LPR during the liberation of Debaltseve? So, just in case, before writing any conclusions?

        Well, tell us the losses of LDNR in Debaltseve, but at the same time how could it happen that in a week 3.000 the group left their prepared positions, in fact, yesterday’s militia, which at that time did not have unified subordination and were at most equal in number?
        Of course, Ukrainians can kill only unarmed people, as soon as the militia had armaments equal to Ukrainian, boilers and a “prepared retreat” appeared immediately.
        Quote: Mik13
        I believe that the "pots" that really fight will not waste time communicating with you. At least, at least because of the use of the term "pots".

        Yes, there are no ATO soldiers on such sites and they are still talking about their efforts.
    2. +8
      28 August 2017 10: 09
      Quote: Lgankhi
      The phrase "dangerous" and "Ukrainian" is ridiculous.

      Hatchery is fraught with great blood. And from both sides, in essence, the same people are fighting with the same mentality. Zapadentsev drop out of the "same", but, firstly, at one time they also fought quite effectively, and secondly, they prefer to serve away from the front line.
      1. +4
        28 August 2017 10: 21
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        And on the one and the other side, in essence, the same people are fighting with the same mentality

        That is, do you have the same mentality with the Bendera men who cut out Polish women and children and shot our soldiers in the back?
        1. +2
          28 August 2017 16: 09
          Quote: Lgankhi
          That is, do you have the same mentality with the Bendera men who cut out Polish women and children and shot our soldiers in the back?

          Read diagonally ?. You missed the phrase: "Zapadentsev drop out of the" same ", but, firstly, at one time they also fought quite effectively, and secondly, they prefer to serve away from the front line."
          1. 0
            29 August 2017 07: 33
            So Bandera is not only in western Ukraine, and we can’t have one mentality, one who goes to kill Russian people for the sake of Ukrainians because they want to remain Russian. The Armed Forces of Ukraine is a punitive army and only Putin’s KhPP did not lead to its destruction in 2014.
        2. +5
          29 August 2017 10: 10
          Quote: Lgankhi
          Do you have the same mentality with Bendera, who cut out Polish women and children and shot in the back of our soldiers?

          Mentality - a set of mental, emotional, cultural characteristics, value orientations and attitudes inherent in a social or ethnic group, nation, people, nationality.

          How can the mentality of a Kharkov citizen or a native of Donbass, who grew up in the same yard and studied at the same school, institute or served in the same army with the same person, and now fighting on different sides of the barricade, differ? And do not begrudge these Bandera, you drop this propaganda stamp, those who support Bandera in Ukraine are an insignificant minority and they serve in the National Battles. But basically people are fighting for a united Ukraine, just as you would have been fighting for a united Russia (I don’t know, you would have been fighting). I lived in Donetsk for a long time and I had a lot of friends and schoolmates there, some for the DPR, some for the United Kingdom (though the latter are no longer in correspondence with me).
          Quote: Lgankhi
          bendera
          residents of the city of Bender, to put it mildly, would be very unhappy with your mention of them in this vein, although you would even bother to figure out what you are writing before throwing slogans here.
          1. +1
            29 August 2017 10: 20
            Quote: verner1967
            And do not slander these Bandera, you drop this propaganda stamp, those who support Bandera in Ukraine are an insignificant minority and they serve in the National Battles

            Yeah, a tiny minority. That's 56% of Ukrainians voted for Bendera Poroshenko.
            Quote: verner1967
            But basically people are fighting for a united Ukraine, just as you would have been fighting for a united Russia

            No country deserves unity if people die for it. Fighting, killing and dying just for the country to be united, this is nonsense. Czechs and Slovaks, for example, have peacefully dispersed and are now living, not at war. If the Czechs and Slovaks began to slaughter each other for “united Czechoslovakia”, then this would not have led to anything good. Why is Ukraine better than Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia? Why can Slovenes, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Czechs and Slovaks have their sovereignty, but Russians can not in Ukraine? Are Russians worse than Slovenes and Macedonians?
            1. +3
              29 August 2017 10: 24
              Quote: Lgankhi
              Bendera Poroshenko
              Was he born in Bender? They write everywhere in Bolgrad. what
              Quote: Lgankhi
              That's 56% of Ukrainians voted for Bender Poroshenko
              56% of those who came to vote, and if you look at the number of inhabitants of Ukraine, you will not get even 19%, and in these percentages almost half of the electorate of Klitschko. And they did not vote for Bandera, but for the promises of visa-free travel and Ukraine’s entry into the European Union.
              Quote: Lgankhi
              No country deserves unity if people die for it.

              what are you, but what about the Chechen companies? Is there not a war against the separatists? And what about civilians in national suburbs requiring independence? Let Tatarstan peacefully let go, they also asked, and even earlier, the Far East, Yakutia. You are not masking out of the fifth column here?
              1. +1
                29 August 2017 10: 31
                I specifically write "Bender" and "Stepan Bender" so that the pots of the dupa vomit the surname of their "heroy" laughing
                Quote: verner1967
                what are you, but what about the Chechen companies? Is there not a war against the separatists? And what about civilians in national suburbs requiring independence? Let Tatarstan peacefully let go, they also asked.

                The Chechen campaigns were carried out not because of the desire to restore the territorial integrity of the country, but because of the desire to uproot and destroy this gangster-terrorist entity that attacked Dagestan. The Chechens in 1996, and so de facto gained independence. As for Tatarstan, if residents vote in favor of sovereignty in a referendum, then why not? We are a civilized, democratic country. Scotland and Quebec, for example, held referendums on secession from Britain and Canada, but were unable to get a majority of the votes. In Tatarstan, people are not stupid, they understand that if they get independence, they will not live better, since customs costs, duties, etc. will increase accordingly.
                1. +1
                  29 August 2017 10: 35
                  Quote: Lgankhi
                  In Tatarstan, people are not fools, they understand

                  This, thank God, is not fools in the FSB, if you let things go by chance, as in Ukraine, and Tatarstan will leave
                  Quote: Lgankhi
                  I specifically write "Bender" and "Stepan Bender" so that the pots of the dupes vomit

                  in my opinion, just demonstrate your ignorance. And where are you here on the site, they saw them?
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. +2
                      29 August 2017 11: 04
                      Quote: Lgankhi
                      As for the Bendera website, there is such a user, "Catherine II."

                      ordinary patriot of his country
                      Quote: Lgankhi
                      Actually, to assume that Tatarstan will secede from Russia is the same as to say that Moscow will secede from Russia.
                      well, this is your opinion ...
                      1. 0
                        29 August 2017 11: 33
                        Hitler was also an "ordinary patriot" of his country.
                    2. +1
                      29 August 2017 13: 25
                      Quote: Lgankhi
                      Actually, to assume that Tatarstan will secede from Russia is the same as to say that Moscow will secede from Russia. Tatars are one of the state-forming peoples of Russia, the second most populous people of the country. Tatarstan is 500 years old as part of the country.
                      Quote: verner1967
                      in my opinion, just demonstrate your ignorance. And where are you here on the site, they saw them?

                      Believe me, you are not the first to correct me. As for the Bendera website, there is such a user, "Catherine II."

                      Some can stick a stake on his head, and there will be no sense.
                      To unbalance the characters you hate, I propose to state thoughts with the words bebebebebebeb. The effect will be amazing.
                  2. 0
                    30 August 2017 02: 57
                    Do not change your mind, many Bandera people call Bendera, it was Turgenev’s old princess who asked at the table “Where is Andrey,” specifically “you are,” emphasizing her grandeur. Let us also recall the old-mode pronunciation of words such as "pioneer", "revolutionary" ... Found a fun way for yourself to get rid of boredom, not very helpful? But it didn’t work out — only they showed their own causticity. Well, it’s like with those who strongly distinguish “fascists” from “national socialists” - they say, here we are some experts on shit varieties, s))))
                    1. +2
                      30 August 2017 06: 19
                      Quote: znavel
                      Do not change your mind - a lot of Bandera people are called Bendera,

                      Quote: znavel
                      Well, it’s like with those who strongly distinguish “fascists” from “national socialists” - they say, here we are some experts on shit varieties, s))))

                      another smart
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. +2
                      30 August 2017 15: 01
                      Quote: znavel
                      Do not change your mind, many Bandera people call Bendera, it was Turgenev’s old princess who asked at the table “Where is Andrey,” specifically “you are,” emphasizing her grandeur. Let us also recall the old-mode pronunciation of words such as "pioneer", "revolutionary" ... Found a fun way for yourself to get rid of boredom, not very helpful? But it didn’t work out — only they showed their own causticity. Well, it’s like with those who strongly distinguish “fascists” from “national socialists” - they say, here we are some experts on shit varieties, s))))

                      Looks like you are proposing that everyone switch to the old mode? Or for newspeak? That is, it is not right, not in Russian, not to speak literally in the name of ......? To show their ignorance, super-great Russian, or .....?
                      Is it blue blood flowing in you, or the blood of a tradesman in the nobility with yours ... If blue, do not rush to be proud, with spiders it is also blue.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. 0
                  29 August 2017 18: 49
                  Somehow strange comments began to disappear. Without explaning the reason. Probably some kind of technical glitch. I'll write again, just in case.

                  Quote: Lgankhi
                  I specifically write "Bender" and "Stepan Bender" so that the pots of the dupa vomit the surname of their "heroy"

                  But I think, where does such a familiar smell come from?
                  For those who are suddenly not comfortable: we have the reincarnation of the character "Comrade Stalin" (https://topwar.ru/user/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%
                  D1%80%D0%B8%D1%89_%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%
                  D0% BD /)
                  Which was banned after he began to write me in a personal threat after a discussion on this topic: https://topwar.ru/110949-hpp-ili-diagnoz-dlya-ukr
                  ainy.html

                  Tell me, dear, do you get so badly burned on the Ukrainian issue? What did you decide to get around the ban? In vain.
              2. +1
                31 August 2017 14: 11
                In Chechnya, they did not fight with the separatists, but with bandits. Here you are confusing something liberal ... Chechnya over the years of the Dudaev regime has become an EXCELLENT hotbed of banditry! In addition, well armed (thanks to BeNeeltsin and Pasha-Mercedes!). The separatist slogans in Chechnya were only a fraction of the total evil done. People came from Chechnya with bucks in a bank package and bought without haggling everything they saw - real estate, cars, business objects. And the numbers of notes in these packs went one-on-one. And any checks on detectors-shmektorom these notes passed. So where does this money come from, such money? It seems to me that this was one of the reasons for the war ...
                1. +1
                  1 September 2017 09: 26
                  Quote: alexxxz
                  Seems to me

                  just about exactly surrenders ..
                  Quote: alexxxz
                  Here you are liberal-confusing something ...

                  just to add the label “liberal”, so that there would be more pluses. And did I go to Chechnya to both wars with liberal ideas? fool
                  Quote: alexxxz
                  Chechnya over the years of Dudaev’s power has become an EXCELLENT hotbed of banditry!

                  this one follows from the other, in the end it is possible to put an end to banditry (as long as the republic is a part of the state), but with the secession of one republic, there would be a domino effect with others, not to the point of banditry. Need to think more.
        3. +2
          29 August 2017 13: 20
          Quote: Lgankhi
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          And on the one and the other side, in essence, the same people are fighting with the same mentality

          That is, do you have the same mentality with the Bendera men who cut out Polish women and children and shot our soldiers in the back?

          But do not you begin to respect the participants in the conversation? Moderate the tone, and it will be good.
          1. 0
            30 August 2017 02: 59
            Duck you still can’t get to restrain (though - in what?). Is it worth it to puff out your cheeks? Funny, by golly!
            1. +2
              30 August 2017 15: 03
              Quote: znavel
              Duck you still can’t get to restrain (though - in what?). Is it worth it to puff out your cheeks? Funny, by golly!

              What is the meaning of this opus? Have a good laugh? He laughs well, who laughs without consequences.
              1. 0
                2 September 2017 01: 53
                Yes, it’s without consequences, therefore it’s much funnier for those who insert such comments like “I’ll ask you right now”))))) You, probably. at this moment, and pound your eyes terrible-terrible)))))
        4. 0
          16 September 2017 19: 29
          Bendera, these are residents of Bender. Maybe pull up a little education?
          1. 0
            17 September 2017 02: 45
            I specifically write this so that the pots of the dupa vomit from the contortion of the surname of their "Hero" laughing
        5. 0
          20 September 2017 21: 53
          the Benderaites, with a stretch of the word, can be called the residents of the city of Bendery in Transnistria (although this hurts the rumor) - they are seemingly unacceptable here, but the Ukrainians who fought against the Germans on the fronts were very many, you really are ignorant (you probably Iran and Iraq - one state is only spelled differently :)
    3. +10
      28 August 2017 12: 42
      I don’t know if the study of history is included in the program of the Academy of the General Staff; therefore, let me remind you of one point. In history, there has been a long and bloody war between the superpower of the United States and Vietnam. According to the recollections of the Chairman of the Council of Ministers A. Kosygin, the cost of one day of the war reached the USSR for one and a half million rubles. Let me remind you, the USA and Vietnam fought.
      This is information for attempts to think divan military such as Lganha on the issue of who is fighting who, what and where.
      1. 0
        28 August 2017 12: 50
        So answer the question, you are not a strategist unsurprised: why do not you climb to "liberate" the Crimea? What is the difference where to fight with the Russian troops, in the Crimea or in the Donbass? The Crimea is even better, since it is warmer there, and it is easier to cut off the supply of Russian troops by capturing Kerch.
        1. +5
          28 August 2017 13: 38
          And on ... figs he is needed, that Kymym, except as an occasion to talk. This is for hamsters Kyrym going to release. Took - on health. In general, I suggested that you not shake the keyboard with your "intelligence gems", but try to think. By the way, from the last time you still did not count the Chinese in the Far East, but climb into Kyrym.
          1. +3
            28 August 2017 21: 30
            Interestingly, what is “Kyrym”? laughing
            1. +7
              28 August 2017 22: 25
              Kyrym, in Tatar Crimea. So the Tatars called Crimea, until Russia eliminated this gangrene called the Crimean Khanate.
      2. +4
        28 August 2017 16: 14
        Quote: Curious
        about the memoirs of the Chairman of the Council of Ministers A. Kosygin, the cost of one day of the war for the USSR reached one and a half million rubles. Let me remind you, the USA and Vietnam fought.

        The United States spent $ 30 billion a year on the Vietnam War. It turns out that for the half billion rubles a year spent by the USSR in Vietnam, the Americans had to spend 50 times more. Now they understand why America is tired of fighting in Vietnam earlier than the USSR?
        1. 0
          29 August 2017 13: 33
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          Quote: Curious
          about the memoirs of the Chairman of the Council of Ministers A. Kosygin, the cost of one day of the war for the USSR reached one and a half million rubles. Let me remind you, the USA and Vietnam fought.

          The United States spent $ 30 billion a year on the Vietnam War. It turns out that for the half billion rubles a year spent by the USSR in Vietnam, the Americans had to spend 50 times more. Now they understand why America is tired of fighting in Vietnam earlier than the USSR?

          Moreover, in Vietnam, the USSR taught Pindocnyu to fight with the wrong hands. 65 thousand coffins is another result of the war. And innumerable national shame.
    4. +3
      29 August 2017 04: 47
      Underestimating the enemy is dangerous. The article is correct and useful.
  5. +11
    28 August 2017 08: 04
    This power plant will give Ukrainian cars unprecedented dynamic performance, allowing it to accelerate to 85 - 90 km / h at a power density of 27,8 hp / t, which will create significant difficulties in hunting them from the tank units and anti-tank forces of the DPR. The availability of MBT data gives ukraine the opportunity to carry out a sudden and lightning-fast “breakthrough” of the anti-tank lines of the People’s Police Corps ...

    Here ...
    1. It doesn’t matter at what speed you can accelerate a single tank. Those who at least once drove a tank at a speed of at least 50 km / hour are well aware that this is a dangerous and unnecessary attraction.
    2. The average speed of a column of tracked vehicles on the march is 11 km / h.
    3. As for the "sudden lightning breakthroughs" in racing tanks ... Artillery breaks through the defense. And the TM-62 product doesn’t care how fast they run into it.
    1. +4
      28 August 2017 10: 04
      The speed of the tank in battle is limited by the capabilities of the weapon stabilizer. The speed on the march in anticipation of the possible entry into battle by the speed of the "work" of the gas processing plant.
      1. +1
        28 August 2017 11: 40
        Quote: Spade
        The speed of the tank in battle is limited by the capabilities of the weapon stabilizer.
        It's not about the stabilizer. For tracked vehicles, even 30 km \ hour is almost a flight. The equipment is controlled at this speed very poorly. Especially off road.

        Quote: Spade
        The speed on the march in anticipation of the possible entry into battle by the speed of the "work" of the gas processing plant.
        Well, as it were, yes, but the fact is that the average (marching) speed of the column of wheeled vehicles is 30 km \ hour, of a crawler - 11 km / hour. The figure has been repeatedly tested by practice.
        That is, a tank platoon, perhaps (and even for sure) will show marching speed and more. But the company (10 cars) - already rests against a natural limitation.
        The maximum speed of the tank is a pretty pointless characteristic, in fact.
        1. +3
          28 August 2017 12: 10
          Quote: Mik13
          It's not about the stabilizer. For tracked vehicles, even 30 km \ hour is almost a flight. The equipment is controlled at this speed very poorly. Especially off road.

          I know. I didn’t try to drive on self-propelled guns, it’s scary, but on my motor-league and KShMke it was my youth. And just on the pavement at high speeds, handling is definitely worse. Off-road, I think, a fast ride will lead to crew injuries even before the speed will affect the handling.

          Quote: Mik13
          Well, as it were, yes, but the fact is that the average (marching) speed of the column of wheeled vehicles is 30 km \ hour, of a crawler - 11 km / hour. The figure has been repeatedly tested by practice.

          In fact, it is the same. And for a wheeled column, and for mixed. There are no clean ones, for example, in motorized rifle battalions of wheeled vehicles there are as many as BMPs.
          In artillery, the presence or absence of CMU is distinguished when assessing marching capabilities.
          Well, for tankers, as far as I remember, 18 km / h in the afternoon is excellent for a tank company. If you recalculate the norm for occupation of the deployment line. Although there is plus time for the decision of the commander, so that speed is possible and more.
          1. +3
            28 August 2017 13: 32
            Quote: Spade
            Well, for tankers, as far as I remember, 18 km / h in the afternoon is excellent for a tank company.

            The average, maybe 18 km / h, but the speed is stable, more or less, at the beginning of the column, and a little further, you can barely drag, then the gas pedal to the floor, and squeeze the most out of what the tank can give out.
            1. +1
              28 August 2017 16: 52
              Quote: Bad_gr
              The average, maybe 18 km / h, but the speed is stable, more or less, at the beginning of the column, and a little further, you can barely drag, then the gas pedal to the floor, and squeeze the most out of what the tank can give out.

              About that we are a couple, in fact, we are talking about a couple. About the speed of the column, at which there will be no "harmony", and the machines will go at intervals set by the commander. The more prepared the mechanics, the higher the possible speed of the column
  6. +6
    28 August 2017 09: 55
    "The armored protection of the VLD of the T-72AMT tank from cumulative effect (taking into account the Contact-1 NDZ) can reach 900 - 950 mm, which determines its penetration by almost any tandem cumulative means (from RPG-7 with a PG-7VR shot to a rocket-propelled anti-tank grenade) RPG-27 "Meadowsweet", not to mention the tandem ATGM "///
    ------------------
    All of the above is true for the modernized T-72s of the Russian army.
    1. +3
      28 August 2017 12: 10
      warrior. where did you get such extensive knowledge from tanks to airplanes and air defense systems?
      1. +4
        28 August 2017 15: 51
        Even at school, teachers were annoyed.
        Could I tell them that non-humanoid reptilians
        a special chip is sewn from the planet Nebiru, where all-all
        recorded and immediately transmitted to the brain? wassat drinks
        1. 0
          29 August 2017 15: 58
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Even at school, teachers were annoyed.
          Could I tell them that non-humanoid reptilians
          a special chip is sewn from the planet Nebiru, where all-all
          recorded and immediately transmitted to the brain? wassat drinks

          How is it that you were released with such and such abilities?
    2. +1
      28 August 2017 18: 49
      The T-72B uses much more effective semi-active armor. Therefore, Tou can not cope with them in Syria.
      1. 0
        28 August 2017 20: 11
        There were a couple of cases that the T-90 withstood TOU in the forehead ... But the T-72 of any modifications made its way in Syria stably.
        1. +1
          28 August 2017 22: 36
          Quote: voyaka uh
          There were a couple of cases that the T-90 withstood TOU in the forehead ... But the T-72 of any modifications made its way in Syria stably.

          did you run there with a book, examined, recorded?
          elementary logic does not allow us to believe in the indestructible power of the tou, for the “friends” supplied them generously with bandits, and the result is more than modest
          1. 0
            29 August 2017 10: 52
            "the bandits are generous with them, and the result is more than modest" ///
            -----------
            The result was simple. smile : where there were a lot of Tou - in the province of Idlib -
            The Syrian army simply stopped using tanks. Since EVERYTHING was lined up.
            They used the T-90, but one fighter, in trouble, was repulsed, and he has been fighting for half a year
            on the other side.
            By the way, Cornet is no worse than Toe, so I do not praise anything.
            1. 0
              29 August 2017 19: 39
              Quote: voyaka uh
              The Syrian army simply stopped using tanks.

              you made me delve into the subject, as always you’re carrying crap, TOU even T_62M can’t normally punch in the forehead, it doesn’t corrode - this is g .. found a comparison
  7. +1
    28 August 2017 12: 24
    > Armor protection of the VLD of the T-72AMT tank against cumulative action (taking into account the Contact-1 NDZ) can reach 900 - 950 mm,

    The author would pull up the materiel. On VLD T-72AMT there is a DZ "Knife", if that. Containers from DZ "Contact-1" can be used to equip the tank with a knife.
  8. +1
    28 August 2017 13: 10
    Quote: Lgankhi
    What is dangerous Ukrainian T-72AMT?

    The phrase "dangerous" and "Ukrainian" is ridiculous. Riding horses can only kill peaceful women and children, as they killed 100 thousand Polish women and children in Volhynia in 1943, and are doing it now in the Donbass. When I ask these pots, with foam at the mouth, claiming that they are at war with the Russian army, why they are not going to "liberate" the Crimea, because what difference does it make to fight with the Russian army in the Crimea or in the Donbass, I don’t get any answer, in The answer is complete silence.

    They’re bald: it’s one thing to fight with the militia, though the current militias are no match for Strelkov’s militias, they have mestizos and cornets, but they can’t be compared with the regular army and modern tanks
    1. +2
      28 August 2017 16: 29
      Quote: Monarchist
      current militias are no match for Strelkov’s militias,

      Both the Strelkov militia and the current ones are a very motley audience. The "Strelkovsky" in a fair mass looked generally like the first to hold a weapon in their hands, but were with obvious combat experience or with a good service life.
      The current at least initial training have ...
      In my opinion, the main thing in the army is clearly working headquarters. If the headquarters work as they should, the rest will follow. The trouble is that by magic, this does not happen.
      1. 0
        30 August 2017 21: 34
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        the main thing in the army is clearly working headquarters. If the headquarters are working as they should, the rest will follow.

        it won’t follow without reliable information received from intelligence in a timely manner - even a clearly working headquarters is an almost ready failure of the military operation and a ready conveyor of 200 and 300 cargoes.
  9. +2
    28 August 2017 13: 14
    , allowing it to accelerate to a speed of 85 - 90 km / h with a specific power of 27,8 hp / t, which will create significant difficulties in hunting them from the tank units and anti-tank forces of the DPR.

    Well, well) I imagine, the tank rushes and the crew screams with good obscenities stop us))) this is not a comp. shooting game. a tank traveling at a speed of even 40 km per hour feels like a racing car that rushes at a speed of 150 km per hour or even more. at 40 odd tons of metal, speed characteristics are the tenth thing
  10. +1
    28 August 2017 13: 46
    Sorry if a stupid question but I’ll say a little so not a tanker.
    I’m interested in this - how resistant is the modern remote sensing to the effects of relatively small-sized but powerful guns like ZSU? IMHO, but it seems to me that the massive fire of such machine guns should easily destroy all hinged elements. It is clear that the return fire of the tank can be conducted from long distances and indeed deadly for such firearms, but again to the question of anti-tank ambushes ..? Indeed, without DZ, the tank will be affected in any projection, even from outdated anti-tank weapons.
    1. +2
      29 August 2017 23: 36
      Show boxes DZ, of course. But the tank will also blow such a ZSU to pieces with the first shell. Therefore, such cases are almost unbelievable. Do not climb with a light gun to hammer a tank.
      1. 0
        30 August 2017 11: 09
        Well, BMPT also did not appear from scratch ... bore pa?
    2. 0
      30 August 2017 21: 41
      Quote: Taoist
      I’m interested in this - how resistant is the modern remote sensing to the effects of relatively small-sized but powerful guns like ZSU? IMHO, but it seems to me that the massive fire of such machine guns should easily destroy all hinged elements.

      Shilka / Tunguska / Carapace - as a maximum, it will take down everything that was attached (DZ, optics, machine gun, they can drill a gun, remove a goose), from the word completely, but their crew are potential suicide bombers.
      Quote: Taoist
      Well, BMPT also did not appear from scratch ... bore pa?

      BMPT on the basis of the tank, and ZRPK on the basis of what, what is the reservation?
  11. +5
    28 August 2017 13: 52
    Comrades, I immediately warn you: I'm not a tanker and I have a T72 or T62 for one person. But let me express my opinion: 1) the people are not in vain saying: "the devil is not so terrible as he is painted" and T72AMT. For every *** there is a sly bolt.
    2) it seemed to me that the author is not friends with logic: he immediately scares the T80 racing tanks, and then he quickly destroys them anywhere. Agree already some inconsistencies: if he is so fast and slipped the front line and is already in the rear, and the militias do not have race cars what to do? I doubt that in the rear every 10-20 meters stood: “Bassoons” and “mestizos”
    T72 AMT is an invulnerable tank, and then it turned out that it had a bunch of flaws.
    The front-line soldier told me: while the tank is firing far away anywhere. If close then the caterpillar was interrupted and the tank ... Amba.
    I’m annoyed by counter-battery radars with a range of 70 kilometers. Regarding the Javadas, I doubt a little: mattresses do not like to be scattered about with new products, but you never know what they wanted from Mr. Pedro.
    I may wish six hundredth Merce in Merlin Monroe's garage in bed.
    1. 0
      28 August 2017 14: 17
      I may wish six hundredth Merce in Merlin Monroe's garage in bed.

      perhaps I will support. laughing drinks maybe not the 600th, and not Mercedes, and not Marilyn Monroe .. but the thought itself is extremely tempting! good
    2. +2
      28 August 2017 15: 48
      Quote: Monarchist

      2) it seemed to me that the author is not friends with logic: he immediately scares the T80 racing tanks, and then he quickly destroys them anywhere. Agree already some inconsistencies: if he is so fast and slipped the front line and is already in the rear, and the militias do not have race cars what to do? I doubt that in the rear every 10-20 meters stood: “Bassoons” and “mestizos”

      To put it more clearly, on the 60-65 km / h on the highway, tanks with the old type of caterpillars behave as they like, they don’t give a damn about attempts to turn the driver’s drive, you will already slow down automatically on cross-country 40.
      The 72 ke’s armor was specifically lied to - such characteristics cannot be obtained on a rather weak basis, the values ​​of the Knife are taken for advertising.
  12. +1
    28 August 2017 14: 14
    I read the signature (unfortunately, at the end of the article) E. DAMANTSEV And I realized that I read it in vain !!! DAMANTSEV is a sentence, you don’t need to read!
    1. 0
      28 August 2017 18: 51
      I put it on a level with Kaptsov for a long time. Hopelessly.
  13. +1
    28 August 2017 14: 20
    "Critical parameters" of the new aggressor tank, which should be taken into account by the Armed Forces of New Russia

    would have written right away for the troops "vacationers", why so shy then?
  14. 0
    28 August 2017 14: 26
    Well, if it is hot, then Russia will not leave aside, as it was in 2014/2015.
  15. 0
    28 August 2017 14: 29
    Very thorough analysis. Thank you
  16. +1
    28 August 2017 15: 17
    the mechwater hatch of the Ukrainian tank is blocked by lateral protection of the side of the tower if the tower of the tank is turned to the side, this is for me so minus
  17. +1
    28 August 2017 17: 27
    It seems to me that soon I will have to use the term: Speed ​​of armor penetration. In many ways, this will be enough for Ukrainian technology.
  18. 0
    28 August 2017 18: 03
    There’s a bigger mine and a good old PTR, you don’t need to shoot at any armor, but on the tracks, but the RPG-7 is also suitable, isn't it a tankman.
  19. +4
    28 August 2017 19: 22
    Do not forget that in the Ukrainian eighties are the same Russian.
  20. +2
    28 August 2017 20: 34
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: Spade
    Well, for tankers, as far as I remember, 18 km / h in the afternoon is excellent for a tank company.

    The average, maybe 18 km / h, but the speed is stable, more or less, at the beginning of the column, and a little further, you can barely drag, then the gas pedal to the floor, and squeeze the most out of what the tank can give out.

    When calculating the march of the battalion, I always got 10-12 km / h - this is of course with the calculation of the extension of the column, and then the concentration in the defense area and this at the MINIMUM distances between vehicles, platoons and companies. But in practice, even less: someone stalled, someone slowed down, and someone flew away. It was smooth on paper, but forgot about the ravines.
  21. +1
    28 August 2017 20: 40
    Quote: Meshchersky
    Do not forget that in the Ukrainian eighties are the same Russian.

    Come on. They forgot about it and remember only when they are thrust into the very tomatoes. We will often remind.
  22. 0
    28 August 2017 20: 49
    From all of the above, the answer suggests itself: there is nothing more beautiful than the aroma of napalm in the morning ... Blitzkrieg from the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not work, not those times. And it doesn’t matter what type of tank breaks through. I think if Poroshenko starts this battle, it will be the last for him.
    1. +1
      29 August 2017 07: 26
      God forbid that it was so, but I have a nasty character: I doubt the bright prospects
  23. 0
    28 August 2017 21: 07
    and I liked a very informative article
  24. 0
    29 August 2017 07: 28
    Quote: Colorado
    and I liked a very informative article

    An article for women to tickle nerves
    1. 0
      29 August 2017 19: 57
      Quote: Monarchist
      Quote: Colorado
      and I liked a very informative article

      An article for women to tickle nerves

      it’s sabotage - to explode the brain, the calculation of the defense of an aircraft carrier in an attack of thirty-five thousand kayaks
  25. +1
    29 August 2017 12: 05
    Quote: Lgankhi
    Hitler was also an "ordinary patriot" of his country.

    and ... want to say that a patriot is ashamed? Or should everyone, regardless of nationality and citizenship, be patriots of Russia?
    1. 0
      29 August 2017 15: 21
      Hitler, like the current Bendera men, who kill people in the Donbass just because they are not Ukrainians, was only hiding behind patriotism. In fact, all these atoshniks and punishers from terbatalion are ordinary marauders, murderers and rapists, who go to the Donbass just to rob abandoned houses, take out televisions, washing machines, refrigerators, etc., and also rape the "female Colorado" between cases. In the same way, Hitler’s soldiers went on a march to the East to plunder, rape and kill, well and after the war to get a dozen hectares of land and a couple dozen Slavic slaves.
      1. +3
        29 August 2017 16: 08
        Quote: Lgankhi
        In fact, all these atoshniks and punishers from terbatalion are ordinary marauders, murderers and rapists, who go to the Donbass just to rob abandoned houses, take out televisions, washing machines, refrigerators, etc., and also rape the "female Colorado" between cases.

        Here it is not necessary so in a crowd of all to one denominator. In the 95-96th years, our fighters also went to the so-called “dachas” from Severny to take something out (this is just what I know for sure, according to rumors, even more), according to your logic, does the whole united group in Chechnya turn out to be a bunch of looters and robbers? You do not realize that there are normal people, albeit deceived by propaganda, who are fighting for the unity of the country?
        1. 0
          29 August 2017 20: 11
          Quote: verner1967
          this is just what I know for sure is rumored to be even more

          patriot marauder from patriotism does not become a marauder less
          Quote: verner1967
          according to your logic, it turns out

          it doesn’t work, but there were such
  26. 0
    29 August 2017 19: 40
    1) Active protection of the type “Knife '' is still raw, there were cases of complete detonation of the entire set of protection installed on the tank, with a single hit in the tank, which, at a minimum, led to a partial disruption of the tower from the shoulder strap and crew contusion. 2) Lethal weapons have been supplied to Ukraine for a long time, these are NATO sniper rifles and tanks from stocks of countries of Eastern Europe, Soviet types. The only problem is that outside the USSR there are only tanks of export models, with obviously weaker armor, in comparison with Soviet models. All that Ukraine can get today and is already receiving is the export T-72M and T-72M1, whose standard protection is even inferior to the T-72A. These tanks can get Israeli and Polish fire control systems, but somehow radically strengthen their armor protection will not work. In general, the result will be what we have already seen among the trophies captured from the army of the rodent Saakashvili in 2008.
    1. 0
      31 August 2017 14: 17
      It's like that. But the main problem is the personnel. His low level of training, low level of intelligence, lack of motivation.
      1. +1
        2 September 2017 11: 56
        Well, don’t tell me, they have motivation, they want to chop off everything from Russia, not only Crimea, but also Kuban and Rostov on Don and Belgorod and Voronezh and Lipetsk ... You go to Odnoklassniki there are a lot of Bandera people, for whom Crimea is Ukraine and I don’t understand why these persons are not yet in prison under Article 280 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation ?! Moscow gives slack by playing in democracy, and Bandera is becoming more impudent! As for the preparations, NATO is training them now and if you remember that all the losses of the Russian Air Force during the war with the Saakashvili of the Russian Federation were incurred by the Bandera anti-aircraft gunners who fired from the BUK air defense system, you’ll understand that you should not underestimate Bandera, more, that it’s not the Caucasians whom their appearance betrays ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 0
            2 September 2017 12: 20
            Well today is Saturday, there are no anti-aircraft gunners, your truth, but there are no 6 Russian Air Force planes shot down by those anti-aircraft gunners ... So do not underestimate them ... Cape-bombing is expensive
            1. 0
              2 September 2017 22: 15
              Hat-making in military affairs is akin to betrayal, there are a lot of examples, but you should not exaggerate the possibilities of horses.
              How strong their APU we saw: in Ilovaysk and Debaltseve.
              6 aircraft of the Air Force of the Russian Federation are not all clear: 1 Georgian air defense had an air defense missile system from Ukraine, right, but do not forget that they also had their own zinitniki.
              2. On TV it was said and this is confirmed by knowledgeable people: part of the losses occurred through their own fault. In the context of hostilities, this happens all the time.
              1. 0
                4 September 2017 12: 01
                You are right, but Ilovaisk didn’t leave a trace for Bandera, they’ll become smarter now ... There have never been and are no military defense schools in Georgia, but they are in Ukraine, so all the Georgian air defense personnel were Bandera ... They used against the Russian Federation air defense missile systems ,, Buk '' and something else of Israeli production ...
  27. 0
    30 August 2017 13: 26
    It is necessary to win not by numbers, but by quality, therefore, in a tangible future, after deliveries from the USA, the situation can quickly deteriorate. Conclusion: 1) The LPR and the DPR are in dire need of supplies of the not yet existing "non-lethal weapons." 2) This purely technological issue must be resolved very quickly.
  28. +1
    30 August 2017 22: 48
    Well, firstly, the praise of DZ "Knife" is based on what? if on the statement of its manufacturer, then a dubious thing. If there is statistics on real clashes, then we must give it. And so the author succeeds - they hung a “knife” and it simply turned out to be an indelible prodigy - “I do not believe it!”)) In addition, on T80, that somewhere, besides the training grounds, I saw tank wedges racing 90 km / h across the fields / ravines / ditches / forest belts / stones, but at least on the highway! The cruising range at such a speed with a gas turbine engine is presented by the author ?? There, 50% of the cars will get corny because of the flying goose. Yes, nobody canceled the speed and onslaught, but timely reconnaissance, putting into combat readiness the maximum arsenal of anti-tank weapons in tank dangerous directions, and reserves + experience of commanding their use are much more valuable for the defenders. Then the advantage of 10-15 km / h will not play any role. Oh, any ATGM or projectile flies faster than a tank wink . The main organization of VET and general command and control of troops! And the miracle "knife", well, let the Ukrainians hope ... am
    1. 0
      31 August 2017 19: 13
      Quote: Lev Bronsch
      Well, firstly, the praise of DZ "Knife" is based on what?

      In the laboratory, she did not show herself badly :).
      We had similar developments, but they were abandoned, since the declared effectiveness is present only in a small sector of the angles of shells falling into this defense. If the angle of impact of the projectile is different from the declared, then no protection.

      Incidentally, this is the main defense of Oplot, but not a single stronghold was shot during tests, unlike Tagil tanks, where T-72, T-90, and object 195 were shot to verify protection. frail price).
  29. 0
    31 August 2017 14: 15
    Quote: Mik13
    2. The average speed of a column of tracked vehicles on the march is 11 km / h.

    Including stops for rest, meals, maintenance and refueling. )))
  30. wow
    0
    2 September 2017 13: 37
    And in general, all technicians, "engineers" and others, at the end of the "Ukraine" project and their senior "comrades" from higher departments, should be hanged like war criminals.
  31. 0
    2 September 2017 21: 42
    Quote: Mikado
    I may wish six hundredth Merce in Merlin Monroe's garage in bed.

    perhaps I will support. laughing drinks maybe not the 600th, and not Mercedes, and not Marilyn Monroe .. but the thought itself is extremely tempting! good

    Why do you dislike the 600th?
  32. 0
    2 September 2017 21: 54
    Quote: PSih2097
    Quote: Captain Pushkin
    the main thing in the army is clearly working headquarters. If the headquarters are working as they should, the rest will follow.

    it won’t follow without reliable information received from intelligence in a timely manner - even a clearly working headquarters is an almost ready failure of the military operation and a ready conveyor of 200 and 300 cargoes.

    Well, the intelligence has found out everything, and at the headquarters the turkeys are settled and again the “conveyor belt 200 and 300”
  33. 0
    3 February 2020 10: 44
    Why are we aggressors? This is a DNR truce violates

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