The Ministry of Defense published historical documents on the Battle of Stalingrad

The official Online The Russian Defense Ministry on the eve of the 2018 anniversary celebration in 75, the defeat of the Nazi troops in the Battle of Stalingrad, launched a multimedia section with unique archival documents reflecting the initial phase of this bloody battle of the Great Patriotic War.

Recently declassified documents of the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense of Russia will tell users of the official website of the military department about the unparalleled heroism of the city’s defenders, about measures taken to rescue the population and evacuate industrial equipment.

Among the documents published for the first time is the handwritten text of the telegram-report of Colonel-General KK Rokossovsky, commander of the Don Front, to the Supreme Command Headquarters from January 31, 1943, on capturing the 6 Commander by the German Army Field Marshal F. Paulus.

Also to the attention of a wide audience are documents of the German command, in which there is information about the course of hostilities and the units of the Red Army that opposed the fascist German forces in Stalingrad.

The documents posted on the official website of the military department are also available to visitors of the International Military-Technical Forum Army-2017: The Central Archive of the Russian Ministry of Defense prepared and demonstrated at the Forum a selection of unique archival documents from the period of the Great Patriotic War.

You can enter the site here

Comments

[DEPARTMENT]

All our soldiers stood to death! Many died but not in vain ...
And then the boiler and this was like that ...

And so ...

Whoever comes to us with a sword will die from the frost ...
Russians know how to kill demons of all stripes!

[Logall]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

All our soldiers stood to the death!

Let the Yankees get acquainted! And they will drive into their stupid heads that this people cannot be defeated. And that if they continue their policy in the same vein, they risk being convinced of this ...

[VAZ2106]

it's terrible, the Germans are people too. you will not envy those who were captured near Stalingrad, all the same it is necessary to treat prisoners humanly, we are not animals

[Logall]

How old are you? Have you been teaching history for a long time? Reread about the death camps, about the torture of our heroes. About what Hitler Germany was going to do with our people !!!

[VAZ2106]

Do you want to answer them with the same coin? child psychology! do not be like the Nazis, we are civilized people.

[Logall]

Quote: vazxnumx

you want to answer them with the same coin

I AM? No! My grandfathers have already done this for me. (I think the photographs have already been seen more than once.) And I am infinitely grateful to them for this! And pride for them will never run out !!!

[aws4]

not really did our soldiers do the same thing that they ...

[Solomon Kane]

He (Logall) showed the terrible promise of any international conflict.
So that even desire would not be ...

[DEPARTMENT]

Quote: vazxnumx

Do you want to answer them with the same coin? child psychology! do not be like the Nazis, we are civilized people.

Change the flag to Ukrainian ... you are our civilized! And better on the American freedom-loving and erase the tears of a "crocodile" ..

[Logall]

Vitaly, he replaced him with the flag of New Russia. There are no words...

[Masya masya]

Quote: DEPARTMENT

freedom loving

Forgiving ... tolerant, so to speak ...

[VAZ2106]

you do not know me well, however, here many have a distant idea of ​​each other

[DEPARTMENT]

Quote: vazxnumx

you do not know me well, however, here many have a distant idea of ​​each other

I can smell such genes ..! First, they begin to whine about freedom and democracy, and then the country is drowning in blood .. Passed and more than once already!

[Sotskiy]

Quote: vazxnumx

Do you want to answer them with the same coin? child psychology! do not be like the Nazis, we are civilized people.

So the descendants of those who regretted put us on a par with the Nazis, calling us aggressors and a threat to civilization, while we look into their mouths and try to make excuses, imposing their friendship, repeating after them any distortion of their consciousness, calling this crap creative.
But even this “creative” performed by our party people looks comical, i.e. it turns out not a fashionable "creator", but a creaking clown with a grimace on the snout, without brains in the skull. In general - a hopeless "scoop", and a "scoop" by Western standards is not subject to civilization. And that means slaves or destruction. So maybe we will be the first to civilize them to the state of amoeba?) Well, for the sake of experiment? Suddenly, they will become “people”, and even our “clowns” will disappear ..

[Krabik]

Our confrontation with Western civilization is only growing and we are not in ideal conditions.

In such conditions, exchanging nuclear weapons will be very beneficial for us, if you start first.

So I'm only FOR !!!

[like this]

child psychology? is it from the section turn the other cheek?

[Esoteric]

Quote: vazxnumx

do not be like the Nazis, we are civilized people.

You may be yes. The Nazis are not humans. To exterminate, so that later no ISIS appears ...

[aws4]

Well, wait, why are you like this ??? our grandfathers, since they didn’t act, didn’t hang women, they didn’t burn villages along with old people and children ..

[210ox]

By the way, they were normally treated .. Read “Healing in Yelabuga” ... Captured officers were amazed that they were being treated by a doctor, a one-armed Jewess who lost her hand and loved ones in the besieged Leningrad .. But did not lose the Hippocratic oath and the honor of a Soviet physician. Compare with the current doctor’s hacking -Killer from the ruins ..

Quote: vazxnumx

it's terrible, the Germans are people too. you will not envy those who were captured near Stalingrad, all the same it is necessary to treat prisoners humanly, we are not animals

[Logall]

Dmitry, for the whole day, communicating with him, you did not understand that we are dealing with an incompetent liberal.
To whom an asterisk on virtual shoulder straps is a great achievement!

VAZ2106
0 VAZ2106
Today, 12: 33
Japan expressed concern about flying Chinese aircraft near its territory

congratulate me on this site I received a new title! I am already a general]

[Yuyuka]

Quote: 210ox

By the way, they were normally treated .. Read “Healing in Yelabuga” ... Captured officers were amazed that they were being treated by a doctor, a one-armed Jewess who lost her hand and loved ones in the besieged Leningrad .. But did not lose the Hippocratic oath and the honor of a Soviet physician. Compare with the current doctor’s hacking -Killer from the ruins ..

Quote: vazxnumx

it's terrible, the Germans are people too. you will not envy those who were captured near Stalingrad, all the same it is necessary to treat prisoners humanly, we are not animals

the flowers are over, here are the berries - the exam ... we are animals in the second world! it is strange that so far there is nothing about the burning of Germans in Russian stoves and about eating children in Berlin ...

all that is needed for a clear understanding of WHAT was from the 41st to the 45th - the Internet and sites with documents about the Great Patriotic War or documentary shots, including from Nuremberg, where all the points above the "i" were placed ... including by the Americans themselves. Although what am I talking about ... if there were no WINNERS in the family

and still - prisoners certainly lived no worse than our citizens. True, the "animals" made them work. Well, what can we do? We are barbarians

[vezunchik]

and Bendera people ???

[Logall]

It seems to me that we are communicating with one of them ...

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: vazxnumx

all the same it is necessary to treat prisoners humanly, we are not animals

With captured Germans and treated humanly. Do not drive the wave and the blizzard ...

[hohol95]

There were several proposals for CAPITULATION - did not accept
“We keep the military uniform, insignia and orders, personal items, values ​​for the entire personnel of the surrendered troops, and edged weapons for the higher officers.
All surrendered officers, non-commissioned officers and soldiers will immediately be given normal nutrition.
All wounded, sick and frostbite will receive medical assistance. ”
The message ended with the following words:
“Your answer is expected at 15:00 Moscow time on January 9, 1943 in writing through your personally appointed representative, who is to follow Konny - junction in a passenger car with a white flag on the road. Kotluban....
Many who surrendered from the 6th Army died for completely natural reasons - typhoid and other diseases, starvation depletion ...
THINKING HORSE URINE (memoirs of those captured in the summer of 1941) and THINNING HERB from hunger, NO ONE FORCED THEIR GRASS ...
They themselves are attached to our land !!!
And they got "their earthen plots" 2x1x2 meters ...

[1vlad19]

Quote: vazxnumx

Germans are people too. those who were captured near Stalingrad will not envy

And they restored Stalingrad / Volgograd and many then remained to live in the region. There are whole German villages.

[Svateev]

Quote: 1vlad19

and many then remained to live in the area. There are whole German villages.

Do not confuse the era! Former German villages in the Volga region, including in our Volgograd region, for example, Sarepta appeared under Catherine II, who invited her countrymen to resettle in Russia.
After the Battle of Stalingrad, the captured Germans really restored the city and neighboring villages, but none of them survived, everyone returned to Germany. And they could not stay after what they had done to us.
In the Sadki farm, where my grandmother lived, a group of Germans restored cowsheds. They fed them no worse than ours. But for some reason they lacked salt and my grandmother exchanged products from their ration for salt. None of the German prisoners in the farm died, then everyone returned to Germany.

[1vlad19]

Quote: Svateev

Do not confuse the era!

I do not confuse, Sarept below like Volgograd? Not everyone left. Someone "married" to ours.

[Svateev]

Quote: 1vlad19

Someone "married" to ours.

I do not know any such. although he was born and lived his whole life in Volgograd. I know the descendants of Catherine’s immigrants, but from the Great Patriotic War - NOT ONE.

[1vlad19]

Quote: Svateev

NO ONE

I know a family, they live in a farm (Staraya Akhtuba) in a floodplain, they own their own farm, they went to them for milk and meat when they went fishing.

[Svateev]

Quote: 1vlad19

I know a family

Well, convinced ... ONE left ...

[Svateev]

Quote: vazxnumx

it is necessary to treat prisoners humanly

Who told you that the frames of the bodies are prisoners? These are corpses, which even during the period of hostilities the Germans themselves prepared for burial, but could not bury - they didn’t have the strength to hammer the frozen ground. Stalingrad was already cleared of corpses in the spring. We still find such sanitary burial sites. Last year, next to the high-rise building where I live, during earthworks, such a sanitary burial was discovered. When he was exhumed, there remained a huge funnel, apparently from a very large bomb, into which then our women mobilized from the neighboring villages (there were almost no people left in the city).
So do not suck out accusations of inhumane treatment of prisoners!
In the meantime, the enemy did not raise his hands - no mercy for him, beat him as you can!

[Funnels]

And you know that the ration of captured Germans was equal to the ration of soldiers of the Red Army. Here are the "non-humans" these Russians. And now the main thing is the photographs of our prisoners of war. And who with whom "treated humanly. So there is no need to shed tears. Moreover, nobody called them to us. What did they want, cookies?

[Bakht]

The whole country was starving. So fed them normally. Here you are right. But, for the sake of justice, it should be noted that out of almost 100 thousand prisoners in Stalingrad, less than 6 thousand survived. But there is a specificity. The prisoners in Stalingrad entered the camps in an extremely exhausted state. There has never been such a high mortality rate.

[Alex Justice]

Where did so many people beat? It's scary to watch.

[A. Privalov]

Of course, interesting documents. But why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

[DEPARTMENT]

Quote: A. Privalov

Of course, interesting documents. But why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

So that you do not send them to your world media! Everything has its time ..

[cniza]

Quote: A. Privalov

Of course, interesting documents. But why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

So it was at all times - "everything has its time."

[bouncyhunter]

I would not be surprised if in the West some say "fysföfreth!" , appealing to the fact that these documents have been "hidden" for so long.

[cniza]

Pasha, everything is going exactly to this ...

[bouncyhunter]

So after all, our Western "partners" became predictable to horror ...

[Ararat]

I didn’t hear something in the West saying bad things about the defenders of Stalingrad. It’s your persecution mania that’s simple, everyone is against you, everyone doesn’t love you, everyone about you lies. Until now, all military academies are taught about Kursk, Prokhorvka and the battle of Stalingrad.

[Esoteric]

Quote: Ararat

I didn’t hear something in the West saying bad things about the defenders of Stalingrad. It’s your persecution mania that’s simple, everyone is against you, everyone doesn’t love you, everyone about you lies. Until now, all military academies are taught about Kursk, Prokhorvka and the battle of Stalingrad.

What academies are you talking about? United States Military Academy, also known as West Point?The Royal Military Academy Sandhurst? Saint-Cyr Special Military School (École spéciale militaire de Saint-Cyr)?

[Ararat]

I personally know about Anapolis, West Point and Quantico all in the USA. Well?

[Yuyuka]

Quote: Ararat

I didn’t hear something in the West saying bad things about the defenders of Stalingrad. It’s your persecution mania that’s simple, everyone is against you, everyone doesn’t love you, everyone about you lies. Until now, all military academies are taught about Kursk, Prokhorvka and the battle of Stalingrad.

Yes, do not need in academies, although it is poorly believed that they teach. Rather, simply informative - this is how the Red Army beats the enemy thanks to our help and Frost.

and as for "they don’t say bad things about the defenders of Stalingrad," so they don’t have any idea who was fighting with whom! They know that Hitler and Stalin fought with America

[Ararat]

Oh, yes, only you know who fought against whom, only the truth is known to the people. The battle of Kursk is still considered the largest tank battle by all the US military and starts in all tank schools of the US Army and Marine Corps. Stalingrad is an example to everyone who wants to know how to defend a city and how to attack. You probably just have a complex that is not full, garbage seems and everyone is guilty before you.

[Ararat]

For 75 years, you have not shown a single normal film to the world to enlighten about this episode of the war. And they? They took down the Enemy at the Gate and millions learned about it!

[Bakht]

It would be better if they did not remove it.

[Ararat]

Why? I like it. Good actors. Ed Haris, Jude Law, Reisel Weitz. Of course, they didn’t tell much about historical facts, but a generation of people who did not know about this episode of the war was enlightened.

[Bakht]

The Council of Veterans of the city of Volgograd appealed to the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation with a demand to ban the rental of the film "Enemy at the Gates". Unfortunately they were not heard.
What historical facts did Hollywood reveal? Lies about Rodimtsev’s division? Or slobbery meldrama? Shit, not a movie. I agree with the veterans

[Bakht]

Speaking of films. Well, of course, they don’t read right now. "In the trenches of Stalingrad" there is no one to read. But the film "They Fought for the Homeland" is more pleasant for me to watch than "Enemy at the Gates".

[Ararat]

Russian film or western?

[Bakht]

Hmm, no words. You wrote so confidently about "75 years of no movie ....."
You obviously should not look. There are no Hollywood effects. There are a galaxy of great actors.

[210ox]

Yes, there shouldn’t be any white spots. But did these facts and documents specially hide? There, piles of documents were often simply not claimed ..

Quote: A. Privalov

Of course, interesting documents. But why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

[Logall]

Really interesting. I downloaded everything. When you look at the scans of the originals, as if you touched something holy (I apologize for liberties)

[Yuyuka]

Quote: Logall

Really interesting. I downloaded everything. When you look at the scans of the originals, as if you touched something holy (I apologize for liberties)

I’m also watching documentary shots ... that’s who really can be attributed to the saints ... somehow in the Soviet era it was not evaluated, it was taken for granted and did not require protection.

[A. Privalov]

Well, since they write "Recently declassified documents ...", it means that it is.

[A. Privalov]

Quote: 210ox

Yes, there shouldn’t be any white spots. But did these facts and documents specially hide? There, piles of documents were often simply not claimed ..

That's right, "just were not in demand."
I remembered a joke forty years ago.
The Armenian Radio was asked: "Why are there no red or black caviar in the fish shops of the USSR?
The Armenian radio replied: “We checked it ourselves. Exactly, there is no caviar. However, we stood in the fish for almost 5 hours and none of the buyers were interested in black or red caviar. It’s just not a hot commodity, and its shops don’t import it.”

[VAZ2106]

so that some would not suffer for their mistakes, but now it’s already possible

[Svateev]

Quote: A. Privalov

why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

And who hid them ?! I did not find a single document in which there would be something "secret" previously hidden. All this is known, it has always been said. It’s just that historians and writers used to quote these documents, but now the Internet has made it possible to show originals. Rokossovsky’s handwriting, live signatures of other heroes of that time ... Exciting!

[Yuyuka]

Quote: Svateev

Quote: A. Privalov

why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

And who hid them ?! I did not find a single document in which there would be something "secret" previously hidden. All this is known, it has always been said. It’s just that historians and writers used to quote these documents, but now the Internet has made it possible to show originals. Rokossovsky’s handwriting, live signatures of other heroes of that time ... Exciting!

Remember the 70s or even earlier - the 50s! No one (or almost no one) had any doubt who won the Victory! Now time requires the display of scripts, too much is being done to destroy history ...

[asbond]

Well done! Very interesting documents! And the fact that scans makes them especially valuable!

[Logall]

And this scan, as a connoisseur, I especially like:

[bouncyhunter]

Especially Goering with bald poop is good!

[Logall]

Quote: bouncyhunter

Especially Goering with bald poop is good!

Yes, now the trolls are not the same!

[bouncyhunter]

So after all, Goebbels died - there is nobody to learn from.

[Logall]

I am ashamed, but only now, from this caricature, I learned about Antonescu:

[bouncyhunter]

There is nothing to be ashamed of - you are not a military historian specializing in WWII.

[Logall]

But nevertheless, he considered himself sufficiently savvy in this matter. And here
Even in the cartoons of that time, there are historical details.
... you never know where you will find!

[bouncyhunter]

And the old woman is a slammer. I understand that this is little comfort, but many “historians” beyond the hill of elementary things do not know what does not stop them from writing books about WWII.

[Logall]

And Western type historians do not need to know. They write in order to distort the facts. And underestimate the contribution of the Soviet people in the victory over Nazism.

[DEPARTMENT]

Quote: Logall

And Western type historians do not need to know. They write in order to distort the facts. And underestimate the contribution of the Soviet people in the victory over Nazism.

Well, you give a pancake Poet! You’re burning a good guy .... Forgive me, for doubts, at the expense of you .. It happens! It’s interesting to read you, but be careful

[Equalized]

The Wehrmacht would have a chance to save the situation and not lose the Battle of Stalingrad so shamefully if the adventurer general commanded the troops, capable of independently making the most important decisions and not depending slightly less than on the high command. Someone like Erwin Rommel

Paulus was too simple, predictable. A typical, unremarkable average general, thought too much and waited for orders. No creativity. What is the story of the attempt to unlock the forces of Von Manstein worth ...

But the fact is that Paulus was too stubborn a fan of Hitler, he also broke for a long time in captivity. Such fanatics do not dare to violate the orders of their idol and leader, hence the deplorable result.


However, for the Soviet troops this was the best option.
It was lucky that the circumstances were so. For the Germans it was a very tangible blow and defeat.

[Logall]

The first time I hear this from a Georgian! Provided that you are Georgian.

[Equalized]

I am Georgian. What surprised you then?

[Logall]

I never heard that a Georgian would try to reconsider the results of the Great Patriotic War. Those with whom I had to communicate (and there were many of them) are proud of the contribution of the Georgian people to the common victory over Nazi Germany !!!

[To be or not to be]

current time 12:03
Friday August 25, 2017 (GMT-7)
California, United States

[Equalized]

I seem to have never tried to review the outcome of the war. He just started a military discussion on a military site, to spend a clean evening in an interesting conversation and pass the time. What was it, our writings on the site will not affect history in any way.

But the chat topic is excellent, I love military affairs and talk about the war.

[Logall]

Quote: Equalized

our writings on the site will not affect history in any way.

It depends on what time. Scribble in Bendery is already making history! They read about the great stolen labor, went to destroy everything that they were uneducated idiots, it is not clear. And now, the revision of one battle will give Onalnoy power over the meager minds of youth. Then try to beat this nonsense with a belt.
Children cannot be beaten ...

[Krabik]

Whistling with whistles flies not only into children, but also into quite adults.

[Yuyuka]

Quote: Logall

I never heard that a Georgian would try to reconsider the results of the Great Patriotic War. Those with whom I had to communicate (and there were many of them) are proud of the contribution of the Georgian people to the common victory over Nazi Germany !!!

that's why the originals are declassified ... so that anyone can find out HOW IT WAS.

[stalkerwalker]

Quote: Equalized

What surprised you then?

What is more surprising is your ignorance of both the history of the Battle of Stalingrad and the personality of Paulus.

[To be or not to be]

Yeah. Another WINTER was Russian Frost!
A veteran nondescript grandfather came to school - a Tatar. He told. Not much, how Paulus escorted him from the basement in Stalingrad !!!!!
In the war and until 1956, there was a camp at the school site - SD bonsons were sitting.
And before the camp at this place was the headquarters of the formed brigade of the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps. UTTK began successfully its combat path with the Kursk Dug
What is it for,. not in the mediocrity of the possessed or Paulus, but in the Spirit of the people. who rose to defend their Fatherland.
- ORDEN count!

[Equalized]

Nowhere did I mention the spirit of the people and other abstract values, but only wrote my opinion from a purely MILITARY point of view. Everything. I do not deny that the fighting spirit of the Soviet soldiers decided a lot, the willingness to sacrifice themselves and fight to the end often plays a huge role in such moments. But you will not say that the Germans were much inferior to the Soviet soldiers in this component? The Germans were excellent warriors and their fighting spirit was always on top. Only now darling did not help much under Stalingrad precisely because of the jambs of command (Paulus and Hitler, partly Goering).

I don’t like when purely military topics are reduced to EMOTIONS and try to manipulate it ... nothing personal

[To be or not to be]

The gut was thin!
Shoals near Moscow. . Under Leningrad jambs again. near Kursk .. and to Berlin Do not carry nonsense since the military side look at the problem All Europe went to Russia in a single formation The best German army of that time. The whole industry of Europe worked for it
Is it not these German generals who marched across Europe. ? Then they got stripes and were smart. but in Russia for some reason they immediately became mediocre
? Do not laugh!

[Equalized]

As I understand it, the USSR had no stocks? Take at least the period IMMEDIATELY after Stalingrad, when Von Manstein put the Soviet troops in place near Kharkov, completely defeating them with inferior forces ....

Do you want to say that after Stalingrad the fighting spirit of Soviet soldiers fell sharply near Kharkov and therefore they got it that way, and not because of the jambs (or the genius of Von Mantschein, which is hard to deny)?
Understand - such things are discussed from a purely military point of view. Your emotions and feelings are of little interest to me.


As for the best army in Europe - do not tell. The Wehrmacht was the most technologically advanced army, yes. Panthers and Tigers looked impressive, but there were few of them

I remind you that the BIG PART of the Wehrmacht moved on the HORSES because they did not have enough trucks. Here is such a "best army." Which logistics was the worst.

The only reason the Germans exported this skill

[To be or not to be]

To love or not to love - these are your schools. But on the film "Father of the Soldier" and George Makharashvili, more than one generation of Soviet youth was brought up: - Russian. Georgians. Ukrainians. Belarusians. all peoples of a multinational country.
By the way, the film was staged in Georgia - Director Rezo Chkheidze Actors: Sergo Zakariadze, Vladimir Privalsev, Alexander Nazarov, Alexander Lebedev, Yuri Drozdov, ..
The brutality of war is inexplicable. And only true devotion to the Motherland is able to protect the front participants from disaster. Giorgi Makharashvili, setting off in search of his son, helps his front-line comrades. The image of George is not collective, such a father for the soldiers and the truth was in 1942. Makharashvili has gone all the way to Berlin!

[Svateev]

Quote: Equalized

the spirit of the people and other abstract values

This "abstract" value makes a fighter go into battle, a worker in the rear - not leave the workplace for weeks (sleeping near the machine), women - to replace their husbands in factories, and so on. Such an "abstract trifle" is the spirit of the people.

[AlexKP]

Romel was good in his place, with little strength against an enemy who was not going to fight, he never controlled large formations and had no experience in staff work, so, I think, in Stalingrad he would be confused in his troops and lose all Germans of the 6th army , and about Paulus, a very experienced staff officer, but maybe a bad commander, but that doesn’t matter. I think that under Stalingrad it is better than no one would have succeeded. But the Germans were not lucky not near Stalingrad, and then when when they didn’t finish one thing they climbed into the USSR.

[Equalized]

I agree that Rommel was a general at the division level and never commanded an army, that’s right. But I cited him as an example from the point of view of adventurism and adoption of non-standard decisions, which did not shine Paulus
The same Guderian, for example, possessed almost all the qualities of Rommel, but at the same time commanded the armies.

Regarding the MAIN mistake of the Germans - I completely agree
Germany lost the war in the 41 year when she could not squeeze the USSR. Resources are simply not comparable.

Already in the 43 year, the USSR produced many more weapons, although the Reich was distinguished by its exceptional technological effectiveness, but with such a lack of resources they had nothing to catch.

[To be or not to be]

Yeah. Abwehr deceived the Fuhrer and gave false data on the mobilization capabilities of the USSR

[Bakht]

You have an interesting look at history.
Say Rommel. Rommel's adventurism led to defeat in North Africa. You just had to follow the orders of your superior and not change the plans of Field Marshal Kesselring.
Guderian. He is also an adventurer. If it weren’t for Guderian, then perhaps the Germans would have squeezed us near Moscow. It’s good that the Germans had Guderian. Guderian’s memoirs are interesting to read, because he refutes himself on every page.

[To be or not to be]

Yes, everything has been clear with you for a long time! Why?
The American history of military art studies the battles of their commanders in a particular military company. Soviet (Russian) is a slightly different approach.

[Bakht]

Just from a military point of view, not everything is so simple.
Could Paulus abandon Stalingrad and make a breakthrough? Theoretically, yes. In practice, there are no prepared lines, the end of November, the bare steppe, fuel minuscule. A difficult decision.
Strategic component. At the front there is a huge hole that there is nothing to close. Throw Stalingrad and 6 Soviet armies will be freed. Then Rostov will not be kept and the whole group in the Caucasus will be in the boiler. Goth does not have time to draw out his army. Even under the resistance of Paulus, the Germans were forced to leave the 17th Army on Taman.
Mashtein understood this and therefore did not very actively demand a breakthrough of Paulus. It was more important for him to keep the front. Further, the resistance of Paulus helped Manstein conduct a counterattack near Kharkov. The liberated Soviet troops began to arrive near Kharkov only in March.
Paulus was not a simple general. He was a general staff officer and he correctly assessed the situation. He had the idea of ​​a breakthrough in the early days. But the general situation required to hold down the forces of the USSR near Stalingrad. It was difficult to judge whether this was the best decision. But at that time, Manstein was precisely evaluating the resistance of Paulus.
Always keep in mind the dates. Manstein was able to assemble the group only in mid-December. Prior to this, Paulus could only rely on his own strength. Going on a breakthrough in November means giving up all the equipment and taking the fight in the bare steppe.

[Equalized]

Here is the answer so the answer. This is exactly what you expect on a military site, not a stream of emotions

Thank you, an interesting opinion. Perhaps you are right, maybe I am not correctly assessing the situation from the couch. I wrote above that the Wehrmacht suffered greatly from logistics, IMHO, in the logistics part, they hit Stalingrad initially when they started the operation. Communications were stretched to the limit, while the troops were too skinny, obviously few resources. The divisions of the nudibranchs who held the front everywhere except Stalingrad itself and did not pose any danger to the Soviet skating rink which went through them without any problems.

Ideally, the flanks were to be held by well-trained motorized divisions of the Wehrmacht or SS, but in reality the Romanians were sitting there whose quality was lower than the plinth.

[To be or not to be]

The Germans are about Stalingrad. For those who have not figured it out yet. Memories.

[Alex Justice]

And what kind of film at the end?

[Bakht]

As for logistics, the Wehrmacht does not agree. What kind of skinny troops? The 6th German army is not a trifle. As for the Romanians, I also do not agree. The same Manstein praised the Romanian troops quite high. With adequate management and normal supply. It’s quite known to us that Wenck became known there that formed a front from broken Romanian units and plugged holes.
The assault on Stalingrad itself was an adventure and useless operation. Already on August 23, when Withersheim reached the Volga, communication along the Volga was paralyzed, and the Norod and factories were turned into ruins.
Incidentally, it was the corps commanders Wittersheim and Schwedler who demanded that the assault on Stalingrad be stopped in September. As an operation that makes no sense and is too dangerous. Both were dismissed from their posts. As I understand it, it wasn't Paulus who was shooting.

[1vlad19]

Quote: Bakht

on August 23, when Withersheim went to the Volga, communication on the Volga was paralyzed, and the Norod and factories were turned into ruins.

What? Who went to the Volga there? Have you been to Volgograd? Visit. Do not regret 200 rubles for a panorama. The defense line is indicated by the T-34 towers, they were close, but did not come. Units constantly arrived from the left bank.

[Bakht]

Read the story of the Battle of Stalingrad. On August 23, the Withersheim corps (16th seems to be the case) broke through to the Volga north of Stalingrad. After that, the judging of the Volga ceased. Stalingrad itself, as a city ceased to be interesting after the bombing, also on August 23. The work of the plants was paralyzed.

[1vlad19]

Quote: Bakht

Read the story of the Battle of Stalingrad.

I was born there, Volzhsky. I know history not from books, but from the stories of participants in the Battle of Stalingrad. Yes, our barges were drowned, yes, they destroyed the raft, but there was shipping.

Quote: Bakht

Stalingrad itself, as the city ceased to be interesting

Yeah, but what did the Nazis so eager to throw the Red Army over the Volga?

[Bakht]

The railway was cut, shipping is closed. Oil was brought from Baku to Krasnovodsk and then around the Caspian.
Why did you try to take the city? So the commanders of the corps spoke about this. This was the stupidity of the German command. This is what we are talking about.
It’s not enough to be born there, you also need to know the course of events and goals
The goal was to provide a flank cover for the offensive in the Caucasus. In late August, the goal was achieved. Everything else Hitler's idiocy

[1vlad19]

Quote: Bakht

It’s not enough to be born there, you also need to know the course of events and goals

I was born there, and I know perfectly well for me this is the Sacred Land. Every time I fly home, I go to Mamaev Kurgan, I put flowers at the grave of General Chuikov V.I.

[Bakht]

We are talking about military goals. Laying flowers is wonderful. By the way, if you know the history of the city so well, tell me which general did not receive any award for Stalingrad? Everyone knows his name. He is glorified in stories, films and poems. But he was not awarded for Stalingrad.

[Svateev]

Quote: Bakht

On August 23, the Withersheim corps (it seems 16 etc.) broke through to the Volga north of Stalingrad.

Exit then he went out. Two dozens of tanks, which were stopped by the WORKERS of the tractor plant on several repaired T-34 and anti-aircraft guns (almost the entire battery died). The Germans made this throw for moral and political purposes: the footage of their chronicle is well known - German soldiers in a trench on the banks of the Volga. But if they had stopped at that, then in a few days we would have destroyed this erupted group completely and navigation along the Volga would be restored. They needed Stalingrad to gain a foothold on the Volga. So they made no mistakes here.
That we did not give them a foothold on the Volga. We, not their “mistakes," as you are trying to prove here.

[Bakht]

You don’t know stories. I do not consider it necessary to argue. The course of the battle for Stalingrad is even more so.
Just for your information. They tried to destroy this "group" for three long months. They commanded Zhukov, Vasilevsky, suffered huge losses, but could not destroy. Something like that.

[Svateev]

Quote: Bakht

They tried to destroy this "group" for three long months. They commanded Zhukov, Vasilevsky

For three months - from September to November - they held back and then surrounded the entire German group in Stalingrad, and not this group, it would crush one of them much faster.

[Bakht]

Read the telegrams of Stalin to Zhukov. Dated September 3, 1942.
And study the story. This "group" was hollowed by hundreds of tanks and several armies. Stalingrad would not have lasted a couple of weeks had it not been for battles on the "northern balcony".
For God's sake, do not engage in propaganda. You are on a military site and do not write an editorial on the Combat Leaflet. There are documents and facts. The defense of Stalingrad was largely decided in the north.

[Bakht]

"On the General Assembly of the Army Comrade Zhukov

The situation with Stalingrad has worsened. The enemy is three miles from Stalingrad. Stalingrad can be taken today or tomorrow, if the northern group does not provide immediate assistance. Demand from the commanders of troops standing north and northwest of Stalingrad to immediately hit the enemy and come to the aid of the Stalingraders. No delay is allowed. Procrastination is now tantamount to crime. Throw all aviation to the aid of Stalingrad. There are very few aircraft left in Stalingrad itself.
Receive and take action immediately.

I. Stalin 3.9.42, 22.30. Transmitted over the phone by Comrade Stalin.
Sides. "

[Bakht]

September 12, Zhukov and Malenkov reported to the Supreme:
"Moscow, comrade To Stalin.
1. Your both directives on accelerating the advancement of the northern group received.
2. The launched offensive of the 1st, 24th and 66th armies, we do not stop and carry out it persistently. In the ongoing offensive, as we informed you about this, all available forces and means are participating.
We failed to connect with the Stalingraders because we were weaker than the enemy in artillery and in aviation. Our first guards. the army, which launched the first offensive, did not have a single reinforcement artillery regiment, not a single anti-tank regiment, or an air defense regiment.
The situation near Stalingrad compelled us to put into service 24 and 66 armies 5.9, not expecting their full concentration and approach of reinforcement artillery. Rifle divisions entered the battle straight from the fifty-kilometer march.
Such joining the battle of the armies in parts and without means of reinforcement did not give us the opportunity to break through the enemy’s defenses and connect with the Stalingrad, but on the other hand, our quick strike forced the enemy to turn his main forces from Stalingrad against our group [149], which facilitated the situation of Stalingrad, which without this strike would be taken by the enemy.
3. We do not set any other tasks that are not known to the Headquarters.
We mean to prepare a new operation at 17.9, with which Comrade should report to you. Vasilevsky. This operation and its timing are related to the approach of the new divisions, the tidying up of the tank units, the strengthening of artillery and the supply of ammunition.
4. Today, our advancing units, as well as in previous days, have progressed slightly and have large losses from enemy fire and aircraft, but we do not consider it possible to stop the attack, as this will untie the hands of the enemy for action against Stalingrad.
We consider it obligatory for ourselves, even in difficult conditions, to continue the offensive, grind the enemy, who bears losses no less than us, and at the same time we will prepare a more organized and strong blow.
5. The battle established that against the northern group in the first line there are six divisions: three infantry, two motor divisions and one tank.
In the second line against the northern group, at least two infantry divisions and up to 150-200 tanks are concentrated in the reserve ”

[You Vlad]

Quote: Equalized

Someone like Erwin Rommel

I will say the words of the former boxer: you box as your opponent allows you The British allowed ... Paulus was an intellectual who rose from the bottom, he boxed as he was allowed!

[To be or not to be]

From a military point of view. 6th army was constrained by Stalingrad. SHIELDED and exhausted. What about allowed the creation of shock groups on the flanks. Then it was "ringy" Locked under Kalach Symbolically Ring and under Kalach fronts connected (the form of bread roll is a half ring) !!! Attempt to break the ring - Manstein is again to blame
The Soviet military thought prevailed. Soviet generals and soldiers.

[To be or not to be]

“In Russia, we will find our death - German officers about Russians” - the words of the German commander who fought the 1st World War. before the invasion in 1941 ..

[Yuyuka]

Quote: To be or not to be

From a military point of view. 6th army was constrained by Stalingrad. SHIELDED and exhausted. What about allowed the creation of shock groups on the flanks. Then it was "ringy" Locked under Kalach Symbolically Ring and under Kalach fronts connected (the form of bread roll is a half ring) !!! Attempt to break the ring - Manstein is again to blame
The Soviet military thought prevailed. Soviet generals and soldiers.

the loser always seeks the reasons for his defeat The Great and Mighty is good in that all these desolations and attempts to justify the defeat come down to a capacious phrase - “a bad dancer ...” It’s just to help in our blood - that’s what helped the “dancer” Paulus ... surgically! And what to do - in a different way we can’t (or can we?) ... savages ...

[Bakht]

I can tell you that Rommel obeyed Hitler’s orders. In November 1942 (what a coincidence), Rommel canceled the retreat order obeying Hitler’s order. Two days later, he still retreated, but by then had lost all the tanks.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Equalized

And the fact is that Paulus was too stubborn a fan of Hitler, he also broke for a long time in captivity

But when he broke down, he became quite an adequate person, as if he had shook off a mess. And his testimony at the Nuremberg Trials played an important role. And by the way, in the GDR, Paulus was a completely respected person, with a good position and the corresponding "nishtyak", like a personal car.

[_Vlad_]

Stephen Ambrose "D-Day" - read about the landing in Normandy, there is about Romel ...
in places not very, but generally readable

[Svateev]

Quote: Equalized

Wehrmacht would have a chance

The Wehrmacht did not have a chance already 22 June 1941 year. Germany could not win the protracted war and was well aware of this. Therefore, there was a bet only on “blitz-krieg” - a stunning blow that would suppress the will of the Soviet people to resist. Both Hitler and the entire Wehrmacht command understood this. Germany decided to war with us only because German intelligence was catastrophically miscalculated with the number and equipment of the Red Army. You know that when the forces of the Red Army became more or less known to the Germans after the outbreak of war, Hitler yelled at the leadership of his intelligence that the intelligence had deceived him, that if he knew about the number of armored personnel carriers and other things in the Red Army, he would never have dare to attack?
So there was no chance for Germany from the very beginning of the war. Nothing.

[Masya masya]

On Mamayev Kurgan silence
Silence behind the Mamaev Kurgan,
War is buried in that mound
A wave is quietly splashing into the peaceful beach.
Before this sacred silence
A woman with a bowed head stood up,
A gray-haired mother whispers to herself,
All hopes to see my son.
Thickets of steppe grass deaf ditches,
Those who died will not raise their heads,
He won’t come, he won’t say: Mom! I'm alive!
Don’t be sad, dear, I’m with you! "
(V. Bokov)

[Logall]

Do you discharge the situation like that? Thank you, but here are the fundamental questions ...

[Masya masya]

Quote: Logall

Do you discharge the situation like that?

Excuse me ....
Remember yourself, tell the children and the children of the children should know !!! And this is fundamental !!!

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Masya Masya

He won’t come, he won’t say: Mom! I'm alive!
Don’t be sad, dear, I’m with you! "

Thanks for the poems. Yes, and so he stayed there, in Stalingrad, one, the youngest of my seven grandfathers, who fought. The remaining six went to the end of the War, to Europe (one, after, and to Manchuria), to the Victory ...

[Masya masya]

From Heroes of Old Times
There is no family in Russia
such
Where would not be remembered
was your hero ...

[armourer]

Quote: Logall

And that if they continue their policy in the same vein, they risk being convinced of this ...

They obviously want to try, for some reason they even tend to fall asleep in the snow forever

[armourer]

Quote: 210ox

Yes, there shouldn’t be any white spots. But did these facts and documents specially hide? There, piles of documents were often simply not claimed ..

Quote: A. Privalov

Of course, interesting documents. But why did they need to hide 74 of the year?

Because the tactics of urban combat were first developed, by trial and error. The acquired skills were very expensive. At the cost of the lives of our grandfathers

[Paranoid50]

Quote: armourer

The acquired skills were very expensive. At the cost of the lives of our grandfathers

But the victims did not become in vain. The same experience of urban battles obtained in Stalingrad, which came in handy later, both during the liberation of our cities and in Europe, should it be amiss (Warsaw, Budapest, Vienna, Königsberg, Berlin), saving not one thousand lives of our fighters.

[kunstkammer]

Quote: Equalized

No creative

here ... here ... and he didn’t have an iPad ... "rzhunimagu" as advanced poats say!

[Olaf Uksimae]

Quote: Equalized

The Wehrmacht would have a chance to save the situation and not lose the Battle of Stalingrad so shamefully if the adventurer general commanded the troops, capable of independently making the most important decisions and not depending slightly less than on the high command. Someone like Erwin Rommel

Paulus was too simple, predictable. A typical, unremarkable average general, thought too much and waited for orders. No creativity. What is the story of the attempt to unlock the forces of Von Manstein worth ...

But the fact is that Paulus was too stubborn a fan of Hitler, he also broke for a long time in captivity. Such fanatics do not dare to violate the orders of their idol and leader, hence the deplorable result.


However, for the Soviet troops this was the best option.
It was lucky that the circumstances were so. For the Germans it was a very tangible blow and defeat.

What kind of research is this from the Georgian creative fan club of rommel?

[Olaf Uksimae]

Quote: SnegiR_

I’ve been reading you stubborn for 3 years on this site. Perhaps you will ban me (FSU); registering is not a problem). In short, you're really dull here), well, re-read your comments on ANY news. You are like maggots in the toilet, change your mind DIRECTLY OPPOSITE. This is finally schizophrenia) Well, seriously) No. of the year I read you - Ales is full of kaput in your brains. Ban I really do not care .... but Suddenly you want to talk with real RUSSIAN from Western Ukraine from Lutsk - I'm ready)

When you need to artificially cause bouts of vomiting, we better read the comments on the Censor.

[LAWNER]

Komunyaki creatures ....... And about the people in the USSR, he also said ????
You’ve been reading for three years, so you’re trying to figure it out yourself?
Does the opinion change to the opposite? Because Truth is born in a dispute.