Military Review

"On Shipka, everything is calm ..."

262
Continued fighting


On August 24, the Bulgarian squads were replaced in position, only the 4 squad stayed on it until August 31. “The Bulgarian squads, tired after four days of fighting,” read the countdown of the 14 Infantry Division, “without food and almost without water, were withdrawn under enemy fire and sent to the village of Green-Hole to reinforce units on the right flank.” Some parts of the militia, with the permission of General F. F. Radetsky, descended for two days in Gabrovo. Here, the brave militias received uniforms and new weapon (Shaspo guns were replaced by a Russian rifle).

Although Russian troops repelled all enemy attacks, the situation was difficult. The heights of Lysaya, Lesnoy kurgan from the west, Maly Bedek, Demir-Tepe and Demijevits from the east remained in the hands of the Turkish army and hung over the flanks of the Shipka position. They allowed to keep the Russian position under attack, including the approaches to it from the rear. According to the defenders themselves, "all the favorable chances, which fate ever gave in the war, on Shipka were on the side of the Turks."

In addition, the Turkish command, having no information about the approach of significant reinforcements to the Russian detachment, continued to attack until the middle of August 24, when Radetzky himself launched a counter-offensive, trying to occupy flank heights reinforced by the enemy. Three days were stubborn battles with varying success. Forest mound three times passed from hand to hand.

13 (25) August Russian troops as a result of a rapid attack, supported by the fire of the Central, Round and Big batteries, knocked down the enemy from the Forest mound and came very close to Mount Lysa. However, here the artillery could not reliably support infantry advancing beyond the range of its firing. Encountered by strong rifle-artillery fire and enemy counterattacks from Lysaya Mountain, the Russians were forced first to retreat to Lesnoy Kurgan, and then to Volynskaya Mountain, where they entrenched themselves. While repelling one of the enemy attacks, Major General Valerian Fyodovich Derozhinsky was mortally wounded. The day before, the commander of the 14 division, Mikhail Ivanovich Dragomirov, was seriously wounded.

Thus, the six-day Battle of Shipka is over. As a result, the Turks did not manage to knock the Russians off the Shipka Pass, although the battle assumed an extremely fierce and stubborn character. So for the 6 days of fighting, the Russians and Bulgarians lost two generals at Shipka, 108 officers, 3338 lower ranks. Turkish losses were higher in 2-4: according to Turkish data, 233 officer and 6527 lower ranks, according to Russian data, from more than 8 thousand people to 12 thousand people. The losses of the Russian troops amounted to 24% of the total number of participants in the battles, and the Turks - 46,5% of the present composition of the army of Suleiman Pasha.

Great help to the Russian troops during the fighting was provided by the locals. They carried the wounded from the battlefield, delivered water and food to the position. The participants of the battles recalled: “From afar, for several tens of miles they came with mules or donkeys to serve as waterbirds ... In jugs and barrels attached to seine, these volunteers spent whole days in going down with their donkeys and mules down into the valleys where there were clean and cold keys, and again returned to the mountain peaks, to the positions. However, with all the desire, each of them could make no more than two ascents during the day. But even under these conditions, they delivered more than 6000 buckets of clean and cold water every day. The Bulgarians did not pay the slightest attention to the bullets with which the Turks showered them on the open road. They calmly stopped to give rest to animals, smoked, talked ... Russian soldiers strongly attached to these glorious people and tried their best to express to them their gratitude. ” Another participant in the events wrote: “During all the time of the Suleimanov attacks, they carried water and wounded and served the troops in whatever way they could, despite the danger. A lot of them died here. ”

At the height of the fighting at Shipka, the East Danube Army of Mehmet-Ali-Pasha did not show any activity. She waited for Suleiman Pasha's troops to break through the pass, then to take part in the general offensive against the Russian army, as envisaged by the plan of the High Command. When Suleiman Pasha’s attack on Shipka failed, Mehmet Pasha on August 24 (September 5) independently launched an offensive against the Ruschuksky detachment. The Turks managed to press the advanced parts of the Russians, but they could not build on their success. 10 (22) September, the Turks retreated to their original positions.

Thus, the Russian troops decided an important strategic task - they kept the Shipka Pass. The offensive of the best enemy forces repelled the heroic small Russian-Bulgarian detachment of Stoletov. The plan of concentric offensive against the Russian Danube army, developed by the supreme Turkish command, failed. This failure again demoralized the Turkish troops, who abandoned a decisive offensive against the Danube army. Further confrontation in the area of ​​Shipka did not bring success to the Turks.


V.V. Vereshchagin. Russian positions on Shipka

"Shipka seat"

From this time begins "shipkinskoye seat" - one of the most serious episodes of the war with Turkey. Both sides went on the defensive. The defenders of Shipka, doomed to passive defense, took care mainly of strengthening their positions and of organizing, if possible, closed communications with the rear. The Turks also strengthened and expanded their fortification work and continuously bombarded the Russian position with bullets and artillery shells (they had no problems with ammunition).

By early September, the 1877 consisted of the Shipkinsk detachment had 27 battalions (including 7 squads from the Bulgarian militia), 13 squadrons and hundreds, 10 batteries. The total number of Russian troops reached 19,6 thousand people with 79 guns. At the end of October, the 24-I Infantry Division was incorporated into the Shipka unit. The Turkish army had here 55 battalions, 19 squadrons and hundreds, 8 batteries, more than 26,2 thousand people with 51 guns. The army of Suleiman Pasha did not receive reinforcements, so the forces were approximately equal.

The Russian-Bulgarian detachment had the task to firmly hold the pass. For this great work has been done on the development of defense. New batteries were erected, trenches, trenches, and message trenches were being dug. On the most dangerous areas built various obstacles. At the same time dugouts, dugouts and other shelters for soldiers were built. To improve troop management, the position was divided into four districts; each was divided into sections. The district was designed for the 1-2 regiment, the sector for the infantry battalion. The head of the position was General F. F. Radetsky. In early September, positions for the mortar battery No. 1 on the northern slopes of Mount Nicholas and the mortar battery No. 2 on the northern slopes of Shipka were equipped. Each had two 6-inch (152-mm) rifled mortars. By the end of December, 1877 had 45 guns in position.

A big disadvantage of the Shipkinskaya position was that the Turks covered it in a semicircle. The Ottomans occupied many of the dominant heights, which allowed them to fire at all positions. “We had no rear ... no flank, there was almost no front,” said military engineer Ts. A. Cui (the future famous composer), who participated in the defense of Shipka. The Turkish command decided, using the advantageous location of its troops, to shoot down the enemy with continuous shelling. First of all, they fired on Russian batteries.

5 (17) September, at 3 hours of the night, Turkish troops again launched an attack from the southern and western sides. A sudden blow, they managed to seize the Eagle's nest - a rocky and steep cape, outstanding in front of Mount St. Nicholas, from where they were knocked out only after a desperate hand-to-hand fight. The column, advancing from the west (from the Forest mound), was reflected by fire. After that, the Turks continued shelling Russian positions and tried to catch the Russians off guard. The attacks of September 30 (October 12) and 9 (21) of November were especially strong. But the enemy’s plans were promptly disclosed, and he was unable to achieve the task. Turkish attacks repelled. A major role in the defense of Shipka was played by Russian gunners. At first they fired only direct fire. But it soon became clear that this was not enough. Then other methods began to be used: shooting at an invisible target from a battery, shooting at night.

With the onset of winter in the second half of November, the fighting almost stopped. Most of the Turkish troops was assigned to Sheinovo for winter apartments. At the same time, the position of our troops on Shipka became extremely difficult: the frosts and snowstorms on the tops of the mountains were especially sensitive. The locals spoke earlier about the impossibility of wintering on the pass, told about the autumn and winter storms, which often lasted for weeks. At first, the troops treated these stories with distrust, considering the difficulties exaggerated, but soon they had to be convinced of their fairness.

In addition, the Russian commissariat badly took care of the supply of troops. There was a shortage of food and feed supplies. Usually, food was brought in boilers installed on front of food carts. The food cooled, it happened to completely freeze. When the sleet coppers could not be delivered to the position, then brought the same meat and water on packs. “In the dark, along slippery, steep paths, climbing on rocks, people fell, overturned food, and even lost kettles. In due course of the settled glaze, any possibility of bringing food was stopped, and therefore, from the middle of November, it was recognized that people could be satisfied with canned goods.

As early as the beginning of November, the commander of the Shipka position, General Radetsky, informed the commander-in-chief: “There are no crackers in Tarnovo and Gabrovo; communication between these cities and Shipka may soon cease altogether. If a two-month supply of crackers, cereals and alcohol is not immediately sent to Gabrovo, then the Shipka detachment ... is threatened with hunger ... I have repeatedly dealt with all this with the field quartermaster, but there is no reserve anyway. ”

The situation was bad with the supply of shoes and uniforms. In winter, the troops needed boots and coats. They were taken to Shipka with a great delay - only in the spring, moreover, not all the troops were provided with them. As a result, “The clothes of the lower ranks began to freeze to the body, forming a solid ice crust, so that the sick and wounded had to be cut with a knife not only overcoats, but also pants; the overcoats froze so hard that without help it was impossible to turn the floors away: they did not bend, but broke; only with great effort could the arm bend. When the snowstorm was rising, a thick layer of ice was growing so fast from the wind side that it was barely possible to move, the person who fell down was unable to get up without assistance, then in a few minutes it was snowing and it was necessary to dig it out. ”

Due to the difficulties in transporting materials and fuel, it was not possible to build comfortable dugouts on the stony surface. “These dugouts, dug along the mountain slopes, were something awful,” recalled Borozdin. - When people were huddled in them (usually as much as could fit on the floor, the body was close to the body), it was done quite warmly. Then the walls and the ceiling began to "move away", moisture was leaking from everywhere, and after two or three hours, people lay in the water. Drenched to the bone, they went out into the cold, and ... you can imagine that they had to feel during this time. It happened that thawed layers of the earth fell on the sleeping, and then people had to dig out, and often turned blue bodies "(N. Borozdin. Shipka - Pleven (1877-1878)). In another document it was noted: "The dugouts of the regiments are cold ... They are uninhabited due to snow drifts, so people spend days and nights under the open sky."

War veteran L.N Sobolev wrote: “It is impossible to make a fire in any trench; the clothes of all the officers and soldiers represent themselves as solid ice crust (for example, one cannot untie the towers; when trying to do this, pieces of it fall off) ”. During blizzards, the wind blew people off their feet. Such snowstorms have been at Shipka quite often. During blizzards and blizzards guns refused. The subunit commanders reported: “With these severe frosts, it is difficult to shoot Berdan’s guns; the trigger does not descend and misfires; the oil hardens, the closures have to be taken out and kept in pockets. ”

The hardest conditions of life at Shipka led to a huge increase in diseases, frequent frostbite, which significantly reduced the combat capability of the troops. For example, in the 24 Infantry Division, during the two-month "shipkinskogo seat," the regiments lost (not counting combat losses): the Irkutsk regiment - 46,3% of personnel, the Yenisei regiment - 65%, the Krasnoyarsk regiment - 59%. In general, the division lost 56% of its composition. The division had to be recognized as incompetent, taken to the rear for re-formation, and until the end of the war she did not take part in the hostilities.

Largely in this "defeat" of the division were the "fathers-commanders". The division commander, General K. I. Gershelman, demanded that the soldiers look “smart” as in peacetime. The division commander was close to the court, and the 24-division was considered to be almost equal to the guard in its position. The soldiers of the 24 Division arrived at Shipka, dressed in smart uniforms, and thin, almost lacquered boots. The officers looked contemptuously at the old defenders of the pass, dressed awkwardly, often funny, dirty. But when the heavy autumn-winter season began, the “Guardsmen” already caused general pity. The officers forbade them to wrap themselves up, they allowed them to wear only during the guards, to wrap themselves in extra clothes, to wrap their legs was considered a crime, to gather at kitchens was forbidden, etc. In the positions occupied by the “guardsmen” real tragedies occurred when soldiers froze to death and wringing the non-commander -The officer with the change of "changed" only the corpses. V.I. Nemirovich-Danchenko, who was a war correspondent in the war, wrote: “In the wretched cathedral of Gabrovo ... lay the ranks of the soldiers of the 24 division. They were the frozen martyrs of Shipka ... Frozen because nobody thought of them, because their lives were not dear to anyone. Sharqunas, phrase-mongers, careerists did not care for these hundreds of our ... workers. ”

A similar picture was observed in other parts of the Shipka unit. From September 5 (17) to December 24 (January 5 1878) in the Shipka unit, only about 700 people were killed and wounded, and up to 9,5 thousand (according to other data, up to 11 thousand). person). The main reasons for such high losses were associated with the indifference of high leaders. At the headquarters of the Danube army there was little interest in the life of ordinary soldiers. With the timely delivery of stocks of provisions, firewood, warm clothing and the normal arrangement of housing losses would be much less. The Minister of War D. Milutin could only write with bitterness in his diary about the plight of our troops in the Shipka position: "... there was already snow in the mountains, and our poor soldiers were completely torn off."

And although our soldiers experienced incredible hardships in order to keep the Shipka position behind the Danube army, in the reports of Radetsky to the commander-in-chief one phrase was invariably repeated: “Everything is calm on Shipka”. She brought the battle-artist V. V. Vereshchagin to the idea of ​​painting a picture. The painter depicted the lonely figure of a sentinel in his overcoat and hood, freezing under a snowstorm. "On Shipka, everything is calm ...".

The defense of the Shipka Pass lasted about six months - from 7 (19) in July to 28 in December of 1877 (11 in January of 1878). The Russian-Bulgarian detachment repelled numerous attacks by the superior forces of the enemy, withstood intense shelling and suffered a harsh mountain winter, eventually holding back the pass. The defense of Shipka bound the considerable forces of the Turkish army of Suleiman Pasha, preventing the Turks from breaking through into northern Bulgaria and disrupting the Turkish command's plan for a powerful offensive with the aim of returning the Danube frontier. This created favorable conditions for the siege of Pleven. In addition, the preservation of the Shipkinskaya position provided the Russian troops with the shortest offensive path beyond the Balkans, against Constantinople.

General F. F. Radetsky subsequently gave the following assessment of the five-month heroic defense of the Shipka Pass. “Shipka is locked doors: in August they withstood a heavy blow, with which Suleiman Pasha wanted to pierce them in order to enter the expanses of Northern Bulgaria, unite with Mehmed Pasha and with Osman Pasha and thus break the Russian army into two parts, after Why inflict her a decisive defeat. Over the next four months, Shipka chained the 40-thousandth Turkish army to itself, distracting it from other points of the theater of operations, thereby facilitating the success of our two other fronts. Finally, the same Shipka prepared for the surrender of another enemy army, and in January part of our army passed through its open doors in its victorious march to Constantinople. ”

The defense of Shipka has become one of the symbols of the military community of two Slavic peoples - Russians and Bulgarians. Shipka is one of the most famous names in stories Bulgaria, the shrine of the Bulgarian patriots. To commemorate the Shipki defense near the pass in 1928 -1930. a monument was erected. The most ambitious and solemn events are held here on March 3 - this is the day of the signing of the San Stefano peace treaty, which brought the freedom of Bulgaria after the five-century Ottoman yoke.


Bulgaria. National Park Museum at the Shipka Pass. Sculptural composition "Russian soldiers on the Shipka Pass in winter 1877"
Author:
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Russian army on the eve of the war with Turkey
Russian Black Sea Fleet on the eve of the war with Turkey
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As the plan collapsed "Russian Blitzkrieg" in the Balkans
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Transition of the Danube army to strategic defense
140 years of the heroic defense of Shipka
“We will stand to the last, we will lay down our bones, but we will not give up our positions”
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  1. verner1967
    verner1967 24 August 2017 06: 14
    +4
    During the period from September 5 (17) to December 24 (January 5, 1878), only 700 people were killed and injured in the Shipkinsky detachment, and up to 9,5 thousand were sick and frostbite (according to other sources, up to 11 thousand people).
    And after all this, the Bulgarians surrendered to NATO?
    1. tasha
      tasha 24 August 2017 07: 35
      +3
      You would have to go to the bath laughing
    2. Cat
      Cat 24 August 2017 07: 37
      +5
      Before surrendering to NATO "brother" the Bulgarians managed in both world wars to fight against Russia (USSR).
      Although Bulgaria is perhaps a natural country, on the territory of which the graves of our soldiers are not desecrated, monuments and obelisks are not demolished.
      1. verner1967
        verner1967 24 August 2017 07: 55
        +4
        Quote: Kotischa
        Bulgarians managed to fight against Russia (USSR) in both world wars.

        Well, here Russia itself is to blame, and they fought not against Russia, but for their lands, which the neighbors chopped off from them not without the patronage of RI
        Quote: Kotischa
        Bulgaria is a natural country, on the territory of which the graves of our soldiers are not desecrated, monuments and obelisks are not demolished.

        well ... but no one doused the Alyosha monument with white paint and painted it in pink T-34?
        1. Bagatur
          Bagatur 24 August 2017 08: 57
          +4
          The army of Russia in 1877-1878 is the army of the Liberator, the Red Army in 1944 the army is an occupant! With all due respect, but in 1944, the Soviet Union declared war on us, we were treated as a defeated country with all the consequences ... For 1944 - 1947, the Bulgarian Communists beat 30000 people without trial, with the approval of Soviet troops .. And this is the elite of the nation. You may not like it, but we make a difference!
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 24 August 2017 09: 10
            +3
            Quote: bagatura
            For 1944 - 1947, before the eyes and approval of the Soviet troops, the Bulgarian Communists beat 30000 people without trial and investigation ..

            so these are the internal affairs of Bulgaria, why was it necessary to intervene. Although the Communists are everywhere Communists, even in Bulgaria, even in the USSR
            Quote: bagatura
            in 1944 the USSR declared war on us

            since Bulgaria was an ally of Germany, and the proposal of the Soviet government on May 18, 1944 to stop providing assistance to the German army, the Bulgarian government ignored it and what was left to the USSR to do?
            Quote: bagatura
            we were referred to a defeated country with all the consequences ...

            What is it like? How much did you pay the USSR indemnities? Or how much territory was given in favor of the USSR? Defeated countries are not helped.
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 24 August 2017 15: 27
              +2
              And why did they wait on September 5.09.1944, 1 for the declaration of war? After all, Bulgaria has been in the Tristran Pact since March 1941, 22.06.1941 ... your ambassador has spent the whole war in Sofia! It’s strange that they didn’t do it after 1944/1947/XNUMX ... This certainly didn’t stop the Bulgarian Communists from the USSR from sending terror to the country .. The internal affairs are said and you didn’t intervene? If the USSR army in the country was not occupied, the Communist terror was not at all ... For the expense of the Soviet troops XNUMX-XNUMX they gave billions in money and nature ... But our archive was robbed and still sits in the basement somewhere in Moscow ...
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 24 August 2017 16: 45
                +3
                Quote: bagatura
                And why did they wait on September 5.09.1944, XNUMX for the declaration of war?

                so we also did not declare war on Japan until the end of World War II. As they approached the borders of Bulgaria, they announced it, although they hoped that Bulgaria itself would go over to the side of the allies, but the Bulgarian government did not meet the aspirations of the USSR.
              2. alatanas
                alatanas 24 August 2017 16: 48
                +1
                07.08.1944/XNUMX/XNUMX war from the USSR was declared with the s / y kingdom of Bulgaria. Neday yes lies, Th no exposition from your Russian!
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 26 August 2017 14: 39
                  +2
                  07.08.1944/XNUMX/XNUMX war from the USSR was declared s / a kingdom of Bulgaria
                  Learn the si lesson ..
                2. pytar
                  pytar 27 August 2017 16: 45
                  +4
                  alatanas и Bagatur, calmly ... Not e fatally important is the sin from the date! It is an important fact that the USSR declared war on Bulgaria! At the same time, the anti-Bulgarian campaign in Russian media is aggressive, kindly yes reinforce the si, and don’t even denounce the karama in the old Bulgarian!
                  1. Maksim
                    Maksim 27 August 2017 17: 12
                    +2
                    Momcheta, not e mestoto tuk yes si Merim .... knowledge.
                  2. Bagatur
                    Bagatur 27 August 2017 18: 36
                    +2
                    Accepted ..... Vari gi, oven gi ... Tyahnoto s know, for all sorts of laughter, blame them!
            2. alatanas
              alatanas 24 August 2017 16: 50
              +2
              The USSR did not pay indemnities, but to Serbs and Greeks in 1976
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 24 August 2017 17: 19
                +2
                Quote: alatanas
                The USSR did not pay indemnities, but to Serbs and Greeks in 1976

                SFRY is a member of the organization of non-aligned countries. Greece - a member of the NATO bloc, what claims to the USSR? The USSR has never treated Bulgaria as a defeated country.
                1. alatanas
                  alatanas 24 August 2017 17: 52
                  +1
                  All this was decided in Yalta and Potsdam when neither Greece nor the SFRY (then still under the name of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia) were members of the organizations you quoted, because in those days these organizations did not exist.
                  1. verner1967
                    verner1967 24 August 2017 17: 56
                    +1
                    Quote: alatanas
                    when neither Greece nor the SFRY (then still under the title Kingdom of Yugoslavia) by the members of the organizations you quoted

                    in any case, these issues between Greece and Bulgaria and the Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Bulgaria were resolved. USSR with Great Britain and the USA only shared the world
          2. Gopnik
            Gopnik 24 August 2017 12: 31
            +1
            And in 1915 why did they fight against Russia?
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 24 August 2017 13: 25
              +2
              Quote: Gopnik
              And in 1915 why did they fight against Russia?

              against Serbia and Greece, and where against Russia, in Romania, so there the Romanians first began. Then our supported them. By the way, on the Thessaloniki Front, the Russian Expeditionary Force also fought against the Bulgarians.
              1. Bagatur
                Bagatur 24 August 2017 15: 30
                +2
                In 1915, a war with Serbia was inevitable ... She plundered Bulgarian lands with a million people ... would she leave them cut heads and make him “rule the Serbs”? And it is necessary to watch the tsuchtut tsar Nikolashka so wanted ...
                1. verner1967
                  verner1967 24 August 2017 16: 45
                  +3
                  Quote: bagatura
                  Tsar Nikolashka so wanted ...

                  You shouldn’t have scattered Russia.
                  1. Maksim
                    Maksim 25 August 2017 22: 16
                    +2
                    So it’s possible for you, but we don’t really have a chance, right? Or are your statements the height of correctness and restraint?
                    1. verner1967
                      verner1967 26 August 2017 14: 18
                      +1
                      Quote: Mac Sim
                      Or are your statements the height of correctness and restraint?

                      what kind?
            2. Maksim
              Maksim 24 August 2017 22: 07
              +2
              So RI itself has declared war on us. Go google and don’t shine here ignorance of the facts.
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 25 August 2017 10: 01
                +6
                Quote: Mac Sim
                So RI itself has declared war on us. Go google and don’t shine here ignorance of the facts.

                Well, let’s forget that Bulgaria, at the request of Austria-Hungary and Germany, but contrary to the desire of the Republic of Ingushetia, unleashed the 2 Balkan War, about joint actions with the Turks paid by the Austro-Germans, VMRO fighters in Macedonia, about the provision of transit of German cargo to Turkey, about the bargaining of Tsar Ferdinand, that Bulgaria, having longed for the promises of the Central Powers on 14 on October 15, declared war on Serbia - one of the Entente countries (by the way, that RI was the first to attack, the Entente and RI in particular declared War on Bulgaria 15 August! )
                Forget about the German deliveries of Czech captured weapons to Bulgaria in 1939, about the visit of Prime Minister Filov to Vienna on 1 on March 41 and the protocol he signed, about the transit of goods for fascist German troops in Crimea and the North Caucasus through Varna and Burgas. FORGET!!!
                Now what makes you be on the side of the enemies of Russia ?????
                1. Maksim
                  Maksim 25 August 2017 16: 50
                  +3
                  Let us not forget that it was RI’s refusal to fulfill its obligations as an arbitrator and became the reason for the VVB.
                  1. Serg65
                    Serg65 26 August 2017 06: 49
                    +3
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    Let us not forget that it was RI’s refusal to fulfill its obligations as an arbitrator and became the reason for the VVB.

                    This is a hundred years ago !!!!
                    Right now, what is Russia to blame for you ???
                    1. Maksim
                      Maksim 26 August 2017 11: 29
                      +3
                      So it is you who make claims 100 years ago and you are reaping our participation in the FDA and WWII.

                      And who said that right now Russia is to blame for us?
                      1. Bagatur
                        Bagatur 27 August 2017 18: 45
                        +2
                        These events cost us 180 dead soldiers, 000 Bulgarians were expelled from their native lands, 600 fell under the control of neighbors where they subjected them to terror and humiliation! And UTB "Orthodox brothers" ... Not so easy to forget!
                    2. pytar
                      pytar 26 August 2017 19: 06
                      +5
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Right now, what is Russia to blame for you ???

                      This is your constant claim, one to one to another! We have no complaints against Russia. Although Russian politics today makes the same mistakes that 100 years have made. As a result of this short-sighted policy / support of great Serb chauvinism and expansion /, Russia is almost gone to the Balkans! And this is now the most pro-Russian region of the world, like 100 years ago! Keep up the good work ... and then blame everyone for "betrayal"! You have not yet proposed a single competitive project to solve problems at the Balkans! You still can’t figure it out with your internal affairs! First clean your garden, and then find fault with others! The Bulgarian people are Russophile and always have been and will be receptive to everything that comes from Russia! Concept ???
                      1. Serg65
                        Serg65 27 August 2017 15: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: pytar
                        Concept ???

                        laughing Of course, understanding!
                        In the 1989 year, you decided that only boiled eggs are cooler than you, showed the USSR a fig and rushed into the world of the free market, once again deciding that Russia is not on your way and where is Russia now and where are you? How do you live there in the European Union?
                        Quote: pytar
                        You have not yet proposed a single competitive project to solve problems at the Balkans!

                        Problems? Does Bulgaria have geopolitical problems in the Balkans?
                        You were offered a gas pipeline, a lot of money for modern Bulgaria, but your sexual partner was jealous of you and you didn’t give a damn about Russia for the fifth time! Problems, the main problem of Bulgaria is its people who themselves do not know what they want, if only the Bulgarians beckon a cookie, he will run after a ghostly happiness bully
                        Quote: pytar
                        As a result of this short-sighted policy / support of great Serb chauvinism and expansion /

                        Once upon a time, Stalin, whom you didn’t love, did not let Tito crush Albania and broke off relations with Yugoslavia, but he invested a huge amount of money in the Bulgarian economy, and this was when the USSR itself had not yet recovered from the devastation of World War II !!! So whose chauvinism supported the USSR?
                        Quote: pytar
                        The Bulgarian people are Russophile and always have been and will be receptive to everything that comes from Russia!

                        So for Russia, Bulgaria has always been a fraternal country, by the way, like Serbia and Montenegro hi
          3. revnagan
            revnagan 24 August 2017 13: 21
            +3
            Quote: bagatura
            The Red Army in 1944 the army is an occupant!

            And how would you like if Hitler sold out and made an alliance with him!? As an ally of Nazi Germany and an ungrateful brother, you got what you deserved.
            Quote: bagatura
            And this is the elite of the nation.

            The "elite of the nation" was sold first for ordinary brands, then for the Reichsmarks, then it was ready to sell for pounds, dollars ... The Communists did the right thing, stopping the trade of the "elite" in their country wholesale and retail.
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 24 August 2017 15: 33
              +3
              Before we lay down under Hitler ... you kissed Hitler and divided Poland, and then Finland attacked ... But it’s not very convenient to remind you!
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 24 August 2017 16: 49
                +3
                Quote: bagatura
                vy with Hitler kissed

                when they kissed Hitler, he had not yet fought with us and did not attack our allies. The USSR was the last country to sign a pact with Hitler.
                Quote: bagatura
                Poland shared

                with Poland we had the same thing as you did with Serbia, Greece and Romania. We just took our illegally seized from us during the formation of the state. It is strange that I know your territorial problems, but you ours do not.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 24 August 2017 18: 26
                  0
                  On the contrary, I know very well! But UTB will not change the fact that the Soviet Union agreed to divide with Germany ... If the Dallahs ultimatum themselves forced them to return the land ... About Finland ... to be honest, I’m sorry for Fini, but if Stalin did the same ...
                2. pytar
                  pytar 26 August 2017 19: 17
                  +4
                  when they kissed Hitler, he had not yet fought with us and did not attack our allies.

                  In the same period, Bulgaria, with an absolute absence of another alternative, entered the Tristran Union. And when Hitler violated the Nonaggression Pact and attacked the USSR, Bulgaria REFUSED to participate in the war against the USSR!
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 24 August 2017 22: 48
                +4
                On July 31, 1937, the Government of Bulgaria adopted a program for the rearmament of the army, England and France took over its financing, providing Bulgaria with a loan of $ 10 million.
                On March 12, 1938, Germany granted Bulgaria a loan of 30 million Reichsmarks for the purchase of weapons.
                Gentle Calf Two Mothers Sucks ...
                Why did they ask the USSR ???
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 26 August 2017 14: 45
                  +2
                  Pre-arming was necessary! After the WWII, we don’t have an army and modern weapons ... We wanted to buy from England and France, but the neighbors Greece and Yugoslavia intervened here, they say they will not sell weapons to Bulgaria. He will also buy the Soviet one, but not ideologically ... lack of money. Only Germany gave a loan .. and of course, the economy was linked .. 75% agricultural export goods from Bulgaria went to Germany!
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 26 August 2017 20: 01
                    +1
                    10 million in 1937 was provided to you, like the basin of Britain and France ...
                    The Germans are only in a YEAR but three times as much ...
                    With a long sight was a LOAN ...
                    “He will also buy the Soviet one, but not ideologically ... lack of money.”
                    And in what was expressed IDEOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY arms purchases or loans from the Soviet Union?
                    The KHMINDAN government was not so scrupulous in matters of ideology — they destroyed their communists, but at the same time they asked the USSR for weapons and military equipment! Credits and INSTRUCTORS!
                    1. Maksim
                      Maksim 26 August 2017 20: 40
                      +2
                      The ideological impossibility consisted in the presence of the White Guard contingent in Bulgaria, the actions of the BKP (the uprising in 1923 and then the killing of politicians and officers), as well as the residence of G. Dimitrov in Moscow.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 26 August 2017 22: 16
                        +1
                        It turns out that Dmitrov is to blame good - taking off my hat hi
            2. pytar
              pytar 27 August 2017 12: 36
              +4
              And how would you like if Hitler sold out and made an alliance with him!? As an ally of Nazi Germany and an ungrateful brother, you got what you deserved.

              What year? Is it not during the operation of the Nonaggression Pact between Germany and the USSR? What was the opinion of the leadership of the USSR on the relationship of Bulgaria's entry into the German Union? You can say? As for fraternity ... the communists and the Bolsheviks are not our brothers. They are not brothers to anyone. Having killed more Russians than anyone else, the Communists are enemies of the Russian people themselves!
              Quote: revnagan
              The "elite of the nation" was sold first for ordinary brands, then for the Reichsmarks, then it was ready to sell for pounds, dollars ... The Communists did the right thing, stopping the trade of the "elite" in their country wholesale and retail.

              It was precisely the communist nomenclature that was sold for currency, even though it reigned like feudal lords! In Bulgaria as in the USSR! They are our communists, after all, the Soviet educated in their own image and likeness! Nihilists and atheists! It was they who destroyed socialism! It was they and their vicious offspring, overnight the capitalists and oligarchs became!
          4. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 24 August 2017 15: 56
            +3
            Quote: bagatura
            For 1944 - 1947, before the eyes and approval of the Soviet troops, the Bulgarian Communists beat 30000 people without trial and investigation .. And this is the elite of the nation

            Your elite collaborated with the Nazis, and then opposed the power of the people who supported the Communists. So everything is done right. I was in Varna in 1995 and talked with dock workers. They all spoke very negatively about your new government, were very sorry about the destruction of the USSR, about the dismantling of socialism in Bulgaria, and they all cursed Gorbachev and Yeltsin in unison.
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 24 August 2017 18: 28
              +2
              The Bulgarian Communists in 1940-1941 campaigned for joining the pact with Germany ... but you don’t know! They became "anti-fascists" after 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX ...
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 24 August 2017 18: 42
                +3
                Quote: bagatura
                The Bulgarian Communists in 1940-1941 campaigned for joining the pact with Germany ... but you don’t know! They became "anti-fascists" after 22.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX ...

                Dimitrov and his comrades became anti-fascists as early as the 20s, in the early 30s. Dimitrov selflessly spoke and won a trial against the Nazis, who accused the Communists of setting fire to the Reichstag. It was Dimitrov who gave the most correct definition of fascism, and the Bulgarian Communists voted for the pact, because this was the only chance to postpone the war with Germany. This postponement helped the USSR to stand against the whole of Europe, which supported fascism.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 26 August 2017 14: 48
                  +2
                  The Bulgarian Communists carried out the order from Moscow! If the USSR orders, we will support the pact from Germany, if it orders, we will blow up the cathedral with people-we will blow up! They never defended the interest of their country ...
                2. pytar
                  pytar 26 August 2017 19: 42
                  +3
                  In Bulgaria, the communists never crawled with great influence. The most powerful anti-monarchist and truly popular force was the BZNS / Bulgarian Agricultural Peoples Union /. It was the left mass village party. It was they who fought against the Nazis along with other left-wing parties and organizations! The most “heroic” thing that the communists did was to carry out the most bloody terrorist act in the history of Bulgaria! On 16.04.1925, the Holy Week Cathedral in Sofia was Orthodox in the Orthodox Church, the communists blow up 25 kg of the explosion and kill 150 and cripple 500 parishioners! Immediately after the signing of the Ribentrop-Mollotov Pact, the BKP, on the orders of the Comintern, ceases all hostile activities against the monarchists and Germany. To the calls of the other left for a common struggle, the BKP does not respond and evades cooperation. The same pro-Soviet BKP after 22.06.1941 is activated and becomes "anti-fascist", but the main struggle against the Monarchists is waged by other left parties! After the victory over Nazism, the BKP, under the direct leadership of the Kremlin, destroys thousands of people, among which many leftists and communists, participants in the partisan anti-fascist movement! It was the BKP, having taken all the power on the Red Army’s staff after the 1945 and in line with the Moscow line, that is committing the most heinous crime against the Bulgarian people, over our entire 13 century of history! Participation in the elimination of the Bulgarian identity of the Macedonian Bulgarians!
              2. Serg65
                Serg65 25 August 2017 10: 04
                +5
                Quote: bagatura
                The Bulgarian Communists in 1940-1941 campaigned for accession to the pact with Germany

                laughing laughing laughing Brother, you’re humorous !!!! good
                Those. do you think the Communists pushed Bulgaria to sign the Pact between Germany and the USSR ?????
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 26 August 2017 14: 51
                  +1
                  They acted on the orders of the USSR! The BRP (k) was in favor of Bulgaria joining the Trilateral Pact ... when Germany attacked the USSR they woke up as anti-fascists ...
                2. pytar
                  pytar 26 August 2017 19: 47
                  +3
                  It would be humor if there was no fact. But it is a fact! You find it funny????
        2. Bagatur
          Bagatur 24 August 2017 09: 02
          +4
          here Russia itself is to blame, and they fought not against Russia, but for their lands, which neighbors chopped off from them not without the patronage of the Republic of Ingushetia. Thanks for it, it’s a pity but in Russia they know little about the politics of Russia against Bulgaria in the interest of Serbia and Greece in the beginning of XX in.
          1. verner1967
            verner1967 24 August 2017 09: 17
            +2
            Quote: bagatura
            in Russia know little about the policy of the Russian Federation against Bulgaria in the interest of Serbia and Greece

            I wouldn’t say so categorically that Russia has never been against Bulgaria, it was necessary to give each sister an earring, but you had to act carefully, and you (Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece) each pulled a blanket over themselves, for which everyone paid consequence. And the USSR was not closer to Bulgaria than an ally, even with the SFRY there were conflicts. So you are not quite right.
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 24 August 2017 15: 38
              +1
              Yes, but when it came to blows and the war began to lead a seriose ... Russia to save its beloved Serbia gave Romania a pontoon for landing on the Danube in the back of Bulgaria! The Bulgarian communism is not the people ... they certainly stood peacefully before the Moscow authorities ... they knew who put them to power! And finally, the Warsaw Pact and the SIV dismissed vy, not mine ... Russia threw its satellites to its mercy in 1989 and now ... claims?
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 24 August 2017 16: 54
                +1
                Quote: bagatura
                And finally, the Warsaw Pact and the SIV dismissed vy, not mine ... Russia threw its satellites to its mercy in 1989 and now ... claims?

                it is worth recognizing, the Communists have never been consistent in protecting their power. But, at the same time, we never threatened Bulgaria to join the military-political bloc directed against Russia, and also put sticks in the wheels of Russia at the prompt from Washington (for example, South Stream)
                Quote: bagatura
                Yes, but when it came to blows and the war began to lead a seriose ... Russia to save its beloved Serbia gave Romania a pontoon for landing on the Danube in the back of Bulgaria!

                Well, Serbia and Romania were allies of Russia, not Bulgaria, there really are no complaints against us.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 24 August 2017 18: 16
                  +2
                  Sorry, but such a price for an alliance with Russia, 1/5 of the Bulgarian population will be given to Serbia ... But Romania in 1913 was a union of the Central Powers, it joined the Entente only in 1916 ..
            2. pytar
              pytar 26 August 2017 19: 59
              +4
              And in fact, Russia has always occupied the anti-Bulgarian line of politics. In the conflicts between Bulgaria and the trio of Serbia-Greece-Romania, Russia has always been on the side of our enemies. It is understandable why ... After all, this three together "costs" more than Bulgaria! A simple pragmatic calculation in view of Russian interests! There is not a gram of morality in politics! The policy of Russia on the Balkans, like that of other Great Forces, is such: Divide and conquer! It turned out to be wrong ... According to the current results, it can be seen. Russia will return to the Bolkanov only when it puts forward its new Fair Geopolitical Project, which could become an alternative to the West.
          2. Laurus
            Laurus 24 August 2017 11: 27
            +2
            This is what many know. However, there you all fought with each other, there were no good ones. Serbs still remember the raids of your punitive squads.
            And claims to the USSR are not accepted. Serbia and Greece were supported by the Republic of Ingushetia, and not the USSR. In World War II, Bulgaria was an ally of Germany. But you were treated very humanely, not like with a defeated enemy.
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 24 August 2017 15: 45
              +2
              It is strange why the USSR has the right to be an ally with Germany in 1939 and Bulgaria cannot in 1941? Serbia 1919-141 beat more than 20 Bulgarians, pursued a policy of assimilation and statehood terror! They are not as angels as you want!
              1. verner1967
                verner1967 24 August 2017 16: 56
                +4
                Quote: bagatura
                It is strange why the USSR has the right to be an ally with Germany

                The Non-Aggression Pact is not a union; the name speaks for itself. And you have concluded an alliance with Germany, albeit with the condition that there are no Bulgarian soldiers on the eastern front.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 24 August 2017 18: 14
                  +2
                  ... albeit with the condition that there are no Bulgarian soldiers on the eastern front. On March 1, 1941, Hitler did not even tell the Germans that there would be a war with the USSR ... I know the agreement with Germany, there is no talk about any Eastern Front!
                2. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 24 August 2017 18: 18
                  +2
                  No matter how they called the agreement with Germany .. they all saw what happened for the neighbors of the USSR from him!
                  1. Rastas
                    Rastas 24 August 2017 21: 35
                    +1
                    If you criticize the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, then I’m interested to know from you, and what alternative was there for the USSR, besides this pact? Knowing that Great Britain and France were not going to make any military alliance with the USSR. Knowing that the rearmament of the Red Army is not yet completed, one cannot get involved in a war.
                    1. Maksim
                      Maksim 25 August 2017 22: 23
                      +4
                      And what kind of alternative did Bulgaria have when the Wehrmacht army was on its border, and the Bulgarian army numbered half in strength, not to mention its understaffing with weapons and weapons. Or by concluding the Mollotov-Ribentrop Pact, you respected your interests while trying to avoid war. And when Bulgaria tried to avoid its occupation, it means that it acted infrequently. And why did the USSR not go to save Serbia when the “cute Serbs” were washed to ashes in 1940? Or again, they steered interests?
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 25 August 2017 22: 58
                        +3
                        Then DO NOT PUSH US IN THE Muzzle - KHARU OF THE PACT OF MOLOTOV-RIBENTROP!
                        Not yet matured ... There WAS NO FORCE, do not "whistle" - IN THE DEBTS YOU WERE BEFORE THE 3 REICH ...
                    2. Bagatur
                      Bagatur 26 August 2017 14: 55
                      +2
                      I do not intend to blame or justify anyone ... But the fact that the pact from Germany untied Stalin’s hands in relations with the neighbors ... no matter how we say, the Baltic States and Poland understood what it means!
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 26 August 2017 20: 11
                        +1
                        When did Poland enter into an AGREEMENT with the Third Reich ???
                        In 1934 year!
                        In 1933 it was signed, but ratified only in Italy, and from this the FACT OF FOUR -
                        The Pact of Four is an international treaty signed by the representatives of Italy, Great Britain, Germany and France on July 15, 1933 in Rome. The treaty provided for political cooperation between the four powers in the League of Nations in order to eliminate the threat of war in Europe. It was assumed that the main efforts of the “pact of four” will be aimed at revising certain provisions of the Versailles Peace Treaties of 1919-1920. (as, for example, recognition of equal rights in armaments for Austria, Hungary and Bulgaria). It was tacitly assumed that some Versailles borders (between Germany and Poland and between Hungary and its neighbors) would undergo revisions.
                        However, due to the fact that it ignored the territorial claims of Germany (as well as Hungary), and due to the intensification of Soviet-French relations, cooperation under the “pact of four” with the Western great powers lost its attractiveness for Berlin. After Germany announced its withdrawal from the Conference on Disarmament and from the League of Nations in October 1933, relations between Berlin and other members of the pact were further aggravated, and the draft “European Directory” was removed from the agenda.
                  2. hohol95
                    hohol95 24 August 2017 23: 02
                    +4
                    You forget about PEACEFUL offers for POLAND and FINLAND! They REFUSED FROM THEM ... GUILTY ... WE AND THE CZECH SUGGESTED Mutual assistance agreement between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Republic of Czechoslovakia from MAY 16, 1935!
                    The main provisions of the Soviet-Czechoslovak treaty are identical to the provisions of the Soviet-French treaty of 1935. The only exception was Article 2 of the protocol on signing the treaty, which stated that both governments recognize "... that the obligations of mutual assistance will be valid between them only because, subject to the conditions provided for in this agreement, assistance to the Party - the victim of the attack will be provided by France."
                    FRANCE The Republic of CHEKHLOSLOVATSKY is in MUNICH, and POLAND RENEWED FROM A REQUEST FOR PASSING IN THE CZECHOSLOVSKIY SOVIETSKY MILITARY THROUGH ITS TERRITORY!
                    DON'T RUN FORTHE STORY STEAM ...
            2. alatanas
              alatanas 24 August 2017 16: 44
              +3
              And give details about the "punitive squads." Otherwise it turns out as in your media - "Baba Vanga said ...", and as you ask - when and where she said it, silence immediately sets in.
          3. Sergey Medvedev
            Sergey Medvedev 24 August 2017 23: 39
            +4
            Quote: bagatura
            here Russia itself is to blame, and they fought not against Russia, but for their lands, which neighbors chopped off from them not without the patronage of the Republic of Ingushetia. Thanks for it, it’s a pity but in Russia they know little about the politics of Russia against Bulgaria in the interest of Serbia and Greece in the beginning of XX in.

            Russia is not to blame for the fact that Bulgaria fell under the Germans, long before Hitler. Under the Germans did not freeze on Shipka. Russia is not to blame for the fact that the Bulgarian authorities choose unions that attack Russia and lose. You are now in NATO. They haven’t learned anything.
            1. Maksim
              Maksim 25 August 2017 21: 55
              +4
              Of course, Russia is not to blame. She is white and fluffy, and all around are scum.
              My dear man, with such judgments you need to play Barbie with Ken, and not discuss the story. Bulgaria fought for its national unification. And not looking for someone to join. She entered into unions which were thought in Sofia to unite all the Bulgarians. And that’s all.
              She did not throw RI when the latter had to oppose Serbia in 1885. RI ordered all its officers to leave the Bulgarian army on the eve of the war, and Rozhestvensky even took the ships on the Danube. Sp..il Bulgarian property is shorter. Not Bulgaria threw RI after the First Balkan War, This RI did not want to take on the role of arbiter and support Bulgaria, when Serbia had to withdraw its troops from the URBAN part of Macedonia. It was not Bulgaria who declared war on the Republic of Ingushetia, but the latter, when in 1915 Bulgaria sent troops to Macedonia. A few months before that, RI refused to guarantee Bulgaria that same UNSAWED part of Macedonia, so that Bulgaria would fight on the side of the Entente. And Germany said - take it - yours.
              Not Bulgaria declared war on the USSR, but vice versa. And not the Bulgarian troops were on the territory of the USSR, but on the contrary - the Third Ukrainian Front passed through Bulgaria - without a single shot between the two. And BA covered its left flank during the Belgrade offensive operation. This Bulgaria was part of the CMEA and ATS, and not Serbia and Greece. And it was not Bulgaria that destroyed these organizations in 1990. It was not Bulgaria that changed the Russian government, but RI / RF. And we don’t pee about your story, but you. The last pearl is the stupidity of YOUR president about who created the Cyrillic alphabet.
              Do you need more? Or do you already understand?
              1. Sergey Medvedev
                Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 00: 24
                +2
                Quote: Mac Sim
                Do you need more? Or do you already understand?

                How not to understand. Hitler's henchmen. Yes, the Bulgarian troops did not enter Russia, but they helped Hitler to occupy other countries. And the goods were transported along the Black Sea for the German army. But they did not declare war, therefore they are white and fluffy. And when ours entered Bulgaria, it was too late to shoot, it was clear to everyone who the winner was. Romania and Finland have already concluded a separate peace.
                And again you are in NATO, again under the Germans. You refused the South Stream, the Poles refused a similar proposal, and the Germans on the drum, they built one North Stream, and the second will be built. Spit on them "European solidarity." Do you still need to explain who is who in the EU and NATO?
                1. Maksim
                  Maksim 26 August 2017 08: 05
                  +2
                  Bulgaria did not ship goods to Germany. Her ships on the Black Sea were transferred to Germany - this time.
                  Bulgaria helped Hitler, just like on what basis were your troops in Iran. Or are you there, too, fought against the Germans - only two.
                  Bulgaria did not declare war because it did its best to maintain neutrality - only three.
                  Again, NATO is impossible because we entered it only once. But you know better - this is four.
                  The collapse of the ATS and the SPZ to your own conscience and cry about flows and trickle is not worth it. Let’s see if something will happen in the north or your friend Trump will ban it in the interest of Ukraine.
                  1. Sergey Medvedev
                    Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 09: 58
                    +2
                    It is interesting to see the wonders of propaganda. How you have everything turned upside down and distorted. RI / USSR / RF is to blame for all the troubles of Bulgaria. You have already ripened to shoot at us.
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    Bulgaria did not ship goods to Germany. Her ships on the Black Sea were transferred to Germany - this time.

                    The design of ships is not important. It is important that these ships helped Hitler to kill Russian people. With the consent of the Bulgarian authorities. After all, they were handed over, not taken away.
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    Bulgaria helped Hitler, just like on what basis were your troops in Iran. Or you also fought against the Germans there - it’s two. Bulgaria didn’t declare war because you did your best to maintain neutrality - only three.

                    There is no resemblance. We introduced troops into Iran without the objectives of capture and appropriation. After the war, troops were withdrawn. The troops were introduced under the agreement of 1922, which has still not been canceled, by the way.
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    Again, NATO is impossible because we entered it only once. But you know better - this is four.

                    Do not pretend to be stupid. It is clear that specifically NATO exists once. The point is that Bulgaria almost always chooses anti-Russian military alliances.
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    The collapse of the ATS and the SPZ to your own conscience and cry about flows and trickle is not worth it.

                    Well, at least here you are right. Brokeback really broke a lot of firewood. And we have more complaints against him than yours. True, we do not cry and do not lie under anyone. We are arming ourselves. Crimea returned. And Bulgaria, being a part of NATO will not regain anything, neither Macedonia nor Thrace. Nothing. In alliance with the West, you are only losing your territory.
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    Let’s see if something will happen in the north or your friend Trump will ban it in the interest of Ukraine.

                    Yes, we'll see. The story is not over yet. True, before the United States was against the gas pipeline, back in Soviet times. But Germany did not care. And now the needs of Germany are provided by Nord Stream-1. From SP-2 they will have revenues for transit. What Bulgaria refused. (Obama banned South Stream). Although it is possible, you will blame Russia here. In general, Germany and Bulgaria are different countries in this gas sector. What is permitted to Jupiter is not permitted to the bull. I bet $ 100 that the SP-2 will be built.
            2. pytar
              pytar 26 August 2017 20: 05
              +4
              Eto Russia did not care about the blood and bones of its soldiers who fell on Shipki! Russia betrayed their Liberation cause, standing on the side of the worst enemies of the Bulgarian Unification! You should be ashamed, no! This is because you yourself do not know your story! And about the history of other peoples, absolute 0 (zero) !!!
          4. Serg65
            Serg65 25 August 2017 10: 06
            +6
            Quote: bagatura
            here Russia itself is to blame, and they fought not against Russia, but for their lands, which neighbors chopped off from them not without the patronage of the Republic of Ingushetia. Thanks for it, it’s a pity but in Russia they know little about the politics of Russia against Bulgaria in the interest of Serbia and Greece in the beginning of XX in.

            what Along the way, you Bulgarians, digging the Black Sea with ukrams !!!!
            Well, my friend, tell us about the terrible hand of the Winter Palace in Balkan affairs!
            1. Maksim
              Maksim 25 August 2017 15: 21
              +4
              Read the book Adventures of Russian Tsarism in Bulgaria: Collection
              http://militera.lib.ru/docs/da/avantury/index.htm
              l

              And then tell us about the Black Sea. The ignoramuses got divorced here.
            2. pytar
              pytar 29 August 2017 11: 07
              +2
              Serg65 Along the way, you Bulgarians, digging the Black Sea with ukrams !!!!

              If we believe in the "creations" of Fomin, then you dug up everyone! You dug the oceans and built mountains! laughing
        3. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 24 August 2017 09: 45
          +4
          Shipka defense is a typical mixture of Russian heroism and sloppiness. At first, heroically fought against the Turks. And then more people died from disgusting supplies than from Turkish bullets and cores.
          1. creak
            creak 24 August 2017 13: 26
            +4
            [quote = Nikolai K] The defense of Shipka is a typical mixture of Russian heroism and

            Unfortunately, the heroism of some of us is often the result of gouging others ... Our long tradition is to create difficulties for ourselves, courageously overcome them and still find reason for pride in this ..
            1. verner1967
              verner1967 24 August 2017 16: 58
              +2
              Quote: ranger
              we have the heroism of some - this is often the result of gouging others

              and heroism always has two sides, on the one hand, the courage of one person, and on the other, cowardice, gagging and unprofessionalism of others (not my words, but I fully support them)
              1. Rastas
                Rastas 24 August 2017 21: 36
                +1
                I would even add crime, embezzlement.
        4. alatanas
          alatanas 24 August 2017 16: 38
          +4
          Poured, and then washed. In every country there are enough fools. There may be few of them, but they are so skillfully arranged that you meet them at every step. request
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. pytar
          pytar 30 August 2017 10: 36
          +2
          well ... but no one doused the Alyosha monument with white paint and painted it in pink T-34?

          You confuse that! In Bulgaria there are more than 500 monuments of Russia / USSR. Over the past 20 years, 3-4 times the marginals have painted several of Soviet. Moreover, your Tolokonnikovaya came to the rescue of our anti-communists ... Nobody painted T-34, except in standard green. Russian monuments / they are more than 400 / nobody ever touched. In recent years, another 7-8 has been built. In the moment, new ones are being designed and several more will be built by 3-March 2018.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Maksim
      Maksim 24 August 2017 22: 10
      +1
      Again shkololo came running - if the article is about Bulgaria, then they immediately turn on the fool and start to smear the snot - NATO, Ne-et, etc. Or maybe that Bulgaria is the only country where you still have little to keep monuments to keep.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 24 August 2017 23: 07
        +2
        Start ...
        1. Maksim
          Maksim 25 August 2017 07: 57
          +4
          Something else on the brain. And you de-Stalinize there and shoot ... films about your king. Good luck and good mood ....
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 25 August 2017 08: 06
            +6
            "Alyosha" - a monument to the Soviet soldier-liberator, in the Bulgarian city of Plovdiv on the hill Bunardzhik ("Hill of Liberators").
            The first attempt to demolish the monument as a symbol of "Soviet occupation" was made by the Plovdiv Community Council in 1989. However, residents of Plovdiv organized measures to protect the monument, including round-the-clock duty at "Alyosha"; local women wove a giant martinica on the neck of the “Russian soldier” of red and white threads - a symbol of health and longevity.
            The next attempt was made in 1993, when the mayor (kmet) of Plovdiv decided to dismantle the monument. Dozens of Bulgarian public organizations opposed this decision, and a group of Russian veterans living in Bulgaria even threatened with an act of public self-immolation if the monument was destroyed.
            In 1996, the Plovdiv Community Council again decided to demolish the monument. This decision was quashed by the district court.
            The final point was set in the same year by the Supreme Court of Bulgaria, which ruled that the monument is a monument of the Second World War and cannot be destroyed.
            TIME IS GOING - you know the proverb WATER STONE GRINDS ... And that ANYWHERE is waiting for ALL of us ahead ... Nobody knows ...
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 25 August 2017 13: 06
              +2
              From whom did they liberate us in 1944? Let it stand ...
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 25 August 2017 15: 13
                +3
                HERE FROM THEM ...
                Before the start of World War II, pro-German and Nazi propaganda began in Bulgaria - in 1938 the publication of the quarterly journal Rodina began, in which the ideas of fascism and racial theory were propagated. The journal was supervised by Professor B. Yotsov (formerly one of the leaders of the Ministry of Education from 1940 to June 1, 1944) and Professor B. Filov (who headed the Bulgarian government in 1940-1944).
                Since 1938, at the German embassy in Sofia, an Abwehr representative office, Kriegsorganisation Bulgarien, operated. In addition, the “German-Bulgarian Cultural League" began to operate in Bulgaria, led by the groupführer of the SS von Maslov.
                Or THIS LITTLE ...
            2. Maksim
              Maksim 25 August 2017 15: 28
              +3
              So then the Bulgarians themselves opposed. In general, everywhere and all the arguments tell you that you are distorting the facts.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 08
                +3
                I MANDATE ... DISCLAIM, NOT MAYBE ...
                Or was not Professor B. Filov - HEAD OF GOVERNMENT?
                Waiting for satisfaction - IF I DO NOT RIGHT TO APPLY AN APPOINTMENT TO ANY MILITARY REVIEW ...
                In 1938, he took the post of Minister of Education.
                In 1938, B. Filov and B. Yotsov began publishing the quarterly journal Rodina, which promoted the ideas of Nazism, fascism, and racial theory [1].
                In 1940 he took the post of Prime Minister of Bulgaria. He served as Prime Minister of Bulgaria in the 57th and 58th governments (1940-1943).
                On March 1, 1941, Prime Minister Bogdan Filov, as head of the Bulgarian government, signed an agreement in Vienna on the accession of Bulgaria to the Berlin Pact.
                November 25, 1941 signed an agreement on the accession of Bulgaria to the Anti-Comintern Pact.
                After the death of Tsar Boris III in August 1943, he held the post of Regent under the young Tsar Simeon II, and resigned in August 1944.
                Arrested and executed by the so-called People’s Court, he was shot along with a number of other Bulgarian politicians. He was posthumously rehabilitated by decision No. 172 of the Supreme Court of Bulgaria in 1996.

                AND YOU WRITE THE Wikipedia article ...
                1. Maksim
                  Maksim 25 August 2017 23: 23
                  +2
                  The answer was to the message of uv. hohol95
                  The first attempt to demolish the monument as a symbol of "Soviet occupation" was made by the Plovdiv Community Council in 1989. However, residents of Plovdiv organized measures to protect the monument, including round-the-clock duty at "Alyosha"; local women wove a giant martinica on the neck of the “Russian soldier” of red and white threads - a symbol of health and longevity.


                  As for the propaganda, I completely agree with you. This was the place to be. Prior to that, the pro-communist one was carried on, even with weapons in hand, which entailed several coups and armed terror of the 30s. And by the way, the BKP announced the beginning of its armed struggle on June 22, 1941. And not in May 1940, when German troops entered Bulgaria. Do not forget about this either. As well as the fact that the former pro-German BA officers fought against the Nazis, and that the Bulgarian NATO soldiers do not want to shoot at the target depicting Russian soldiers. Remember this. Everything else is the subject of table discussions.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 26 August 2017 00: 14
                    +2
                    EXAMPLES From the book of Artyom BROVIK "How I was a soldier of the American army" (if you have not read!) -
                    We went down to the soldiers ’canteen. However, it is common. Here, as elsewhere in the American army, privates eat with the officers.
                    Immediately struck by the hefty poster at the entrance: "Who is your worst enemy?" Just below the answer: "Ivan!". A brave American ranger is drawn, piercing the bayonet of a Soviet soldier with a red star on a helmet.
                    I remembered dozens of officer and soldier canteens with us, which I had to visit myself. I remembered our units and units in Afghanistan. But nowhere and never have I seen a poster that would call on the soldiers to kill the first "John" who turned up under his arm. We do not play hatred of the Americans.

                    ... If anger in soldier's eyes could be measured like temperature, mercury would explode in thermometers. The sergeant brings the training platoon to a boil and only then begins his story about the techniques, methods and principles of first aid, interspersing it with compact but dramatic stories from his Vietnamese epic.
                    “Charlie was better than us ready for war.” For them, the heat and the jungle, as for us, ”he snaps dark swarthy fingers, as if calling for the necessary comparison,“ is a comfortable Ford with air conditioning. Overheating and sunstrokes are what the Charlie turned against us in the first place. If this happened to someone, urgently drag the guy into the shade and try to bring down the temperature, pour water into his mouth - a flask after a flask. The enemy takes heat in his allies, you - water. He is the sunstroke, you are the shadow and the cool. But never drink from untested ponds. A sip from there may be the last sip of your life. Instead of life-giving moisture, you get what?
                    - Death!
                    - What?
                    - See-e-e-e-eht !!!
                    - Death to whom?
                    - Death to the enemy! (Are your soldiers shouting so much at the exercises?)
                    - Good. “The sergeant allows himself a faint smile.” - And now everyone should drink five sips from the flask! Five o-throats!
                    The soldiers carry out the order.
                    During the trial of the Watergate crackers, they were asked:
                    - What is your occupation?
                    The answer came immediately:
                    - We are anti-communists!
                    “I know many of your journalists who worked in Vietnam,” I said, and I thought to myself: “The fight against journalistic dissent is obviously a favorite hobby of American officers.” - In my opinion, they did not set themselves such a task. Their task was different - to inform the country about what is happening where the children of America die. America had to know about it. If she did not know, she would not have risen to the anti-war struggle, and in Vietnam, not 58, but 158 ​​thousand would have died. So maybe the journalists were the only heroes of that war. But the Pentagon’s position was very strange: to force the country not to think about Vietnam, making it difficult for reporters to work, making the corpses of soldiers “not subject to inspection”.
                    A huge parade ground, surrounded on all sides by a forest, is studded with dozens of plastic figures in human height. Each figure "holds" a hefty stick that mimics a rifle. At the edge of the installed water tank. Someone scribbled on it: “We don’t need shit!”
                    - Soldiers! - the sergeant yells over the entire district. - I want each of you to focus all your attention on the tip of the bayonet attached to the M-16-A-1. Do you understand me?
                    - They did!
                    - Do you understand me? - I can not hear! Answer as befits soldiers, not virgins! Do you understand me, soldiers ?!
                    - Wow! Oh! Oooh !!
                    - If you really understand me, then listen further. Over the past couple of centuries, men have become nervous and effeminate. Our great-grandfathers used to gut the enemy, chop off his arms and legs with sabers, pick out brains from the skull, and after that they went for breakfast with great appetite. And we? Of course, we are still capable of shooting at a bastard from a distance of a thousand yards, [41] but let us not see how it bleeds ... So, soldiers, your task is to overcome this psychological barrier. You must be delighted at the sight of an enemy heart beating at the tip of your bayonet!
                    The companies are listening carefully to the sergeant. He stands with his legs wide apart. In every glass of his black glasses, a solar disk is reflected. With his index finger, he brushes sweat from his eyebrows.
                    - Soldiers! The sergeant shouts. “You were very lucky: where else can you kill, shred, cut the enemy into small pieces and get paid for this ?!” Remember: being a sadist in war means being realistic. Imagine that in front of each of us is a living adversary. Call him ... uh ... Fred. Fred is a masochist. He adores being tortured, beaten, cut, pierced through and through. Let's make Fred happy. Let us give him what he longs for. I said: let's give it to him!
                    - Let's give it to him! Let's give it to him !!! - throaty throats of soldiers speak.
                    “But you need to know how.” “The sergeant comes up to the plastic figure.” “There are five fatal bayonet strikes.”
                    With a roar he attacks the Fred, thrusts the bayonet into the plastic neck, just below the Adam's apple.
                    “Such a blow,” the sergeant comments, “will make Fred sing the soprano.” And such a blow - he hits with a butt and only then with a bayonet - in one second he will send him to the next world. Right?
                    - Right!
                    - I'm sorry, what?
                    - Right! Ve-e-erno !!! - thunders soldiers.
                    - We must remember that in the next world Fred will be much better: your bayonet will not get there. But in this life you have to be a sadist! To be a sadist is to be realistic! Right?
                    “To be a sadist,” the soldiers shout, “means to be realistic!”
                    - What are you eating there? Or am I dealing with a Girl Scout squad? [42]
                    “To be a sadist,” the soldiers explode in an ocean roar, “means to be re-a-fox !!” Oh! Ooooh !!!
                    Soldiers, every second more and more fierce, frantically fencing with bayonets flashing in the sun. What urine is screaming:
                    - Kill! Kill! ... "
                    YOU CAN CALL THIS BOOK - PROPAGANDA ..
                    1. Maksim
                      Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 56
                      +3
                      So this is a Russian hirelings among the Americans wrote their memories. What are your complaints?
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 29 August 2017 19: 05
                        0
                        Borovik - HIRE - SPRAY YOU WITH HOLY WATER ... FOR AWAKENING!
                        Read the book first!
              2. hohol95
                hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 12
                +3
                The Berlin Pact was also joined by the German-dependent governments of Hungary (November 20, 1940), Romania (November 23, 1940), Slovakia (November 24, 1940), Bulgaria (March 1, 1941).
                On March 25, 1941, the Yugoslav government of Dragis Tsvetkovich joined the Berlin Pact, signing the Vienna Protocol with the axis countries, but on March 27 it was overthrown as a result of a coup. The new government of Dushan Simovich refused to join the Triple Pact and concluded a friendship treaty with the USSR, taking an openly anti-German position. In response, the German attack on Yugoslavia resulted in its occupation.
                Later, Thailand, the puppet governments of Croatia, Manzhou-Guo, and the government of Wang Jingwei in China joined the pact.
                Finland entered the war with the USSR on June 25, 1941. In November 1941, Finland signed the Anti-Comintern Pact, but despite repeated requests from Germany, the Finnish government refused to join the Triple Pact, as it considered itself an independent party to the conflict; This position is supported by Finnish historians today. Independent historians usually rank Finland among the Axis countries.
                The defeat of the Axis in World War II led to the elimination of the Triple Pact.
                Or do you still think that your ace is the trump card of ours ...
                1. Maksim
                  Maksim 25 August 2017 23: 25
                  +1
                  What is the bazaar about? These are facts and no one denies them.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Weyland
      Weyland 25 August 2017 22: 10
      +1
      Quote: verner1967
      And after all this, the Bulgarians surrendered to NATO?

      After all this, the Bulgarians havesame in 1887 terminated with Russia dip. relations, and in both CFs they fought against us!
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 25 August 2017 22: 53
        +3
        And why in 1887 Bulgaria terminated these very diplomatic relations? They heard about the role of the Republic of Ingushetia in the Bulgarian-Serbian War of 1885 and the crisis afterwards - the overthrow of the prince and Misia Kaulbars. For example, they heard about how this character behaved in Bulgaria. Only his lazy did not know about his tricks and mate during the negotiations.
        You don’t know your own story, and then you’re surprised. "the Bulgarians already in 1887 terminated with Russia deep. relationship"

        And put on display your template thinking - "in both CFs fought against us"Enlighten us - when and where in WWII they fought AGAINST you. Cheslovo was tired of asking to name at least ONE battle, when even ONE BA unit fought against the Red Army.
      2. Bagatur
        Bagatur 27 August 2017 22: 15
        +2
        RI revoked their diplomats and not Bulgaria! Alexander ||| did it, and now we are accused?
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 24 August 2017 07: 33
    +4
    The main reasons for such high losses were associated with the indifference of high bosses. At the headquarters of the Danube Army there was little interest in the life of ordinary soldiers. With the timely delivery of supplies of food, firewood, warm clothes and the normal arrangement of homes, the losses would be much less.
    ... Indifference of the authorities, probably the tradition that we keep ...
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 24 August 2017 08: 30
      +3
      Quote: parusnik
      . Indifference of the authorities, probably the tradition that we keep.

      how are you right !!
  3. Bootlegger
    Bootlegger 24 August 2017 13: 43
    0
    the best example of Romanov’s policy divorced from real needs is, instead of diplomatically pushing, the possibility of placing a number of batteries in the Dardanelles and joint control of the strait, rivers of Russian blood and pounds of money spent in vain. that’s how our system enemy-England-control of entry from the Atlantic did. to the opinion of Spain ...... from a high bell tower.
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 24 August 2017 16: 09
      +3
      Brewer, you did not carefully read the author’s previous works: it tells what caused the war.
      The Romanovs sought to “control diplomatically push the placement of a number of batteries in the Dardanelles” to control the straits. Of course, it’s easy to say now: Alexander 2 didn’t put his guns in the Dardanelles like this, and that Russia miraculously escaped the new Crimean War by nothing?
      And so Russian diplomats dodged in order to defend the interests of Russia to the maximum.
  4. Monarchist
    Monarchist 24 August 2017 15: 52
    +2
    [quote = ranger] [quote = Nikolai K] Shipka's defense is a typical mixture of Russian heroism and

    Unfortunately, the heroism of some of us is often the result of gouging others ... Our long tradition is to create difficulties for ourselves, courageously overcome them and still find reason for pride in this .. [/ quote]
    Unfortunately, this is so
  5. odometer
    odometer 24 August 2017 17: 25
    +2
    interesting to read the comments of the Bulgarian "brothers" ... well, no words ...
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 24 August 2017 18: 00
      +4
      Quote: curvimeter
      comments of the Bulgarian "brothers" ... well, no words ...

      In their own way, they are right, if you read history more widely than they taught us at school and universities, then you can understand them.
      1. odometer
        odometer 24 August 2017 18: 34
        +2
        You can understand only one thing. "Our lard, us mursals." And if you read the story from the point of view of "... now people need to be softer, and look at the questions broader ...", then everything is right in its own way. I will not list ...
        1. verner1967
          verner1967 25 August 2017 06: 10
          +2
          Quote: curvimeter
          You can only understand one thing. "Our lard, us mursals."

          Russians for Russia, Bulgarians for Bulgaria, what's so strange?
      2. 97110
        97110 25 August 2017 16: 20
        0
        Quote: verner1967
        if you read history more widely than we were taught at school and universities, then you can understand them.

        And how skakels not to understand! To peck, peck and peck these Russians, until they feel full of their own inferiority and insignificance in the face of all with whom America! I wonder how such experts in history, such as the "little brothers" present at the VO, do not remember the terrible grievances inflicted on the poor and unhappy Kiev prince Svyatoslav. Or we crippled before and it is difficult for us to understand the direct relationship between the princes of Kiev and the Vietnam war veteran McCain.
        1. Maksim
          Maksim 25 August 2017 22: 00
          +1
          And what offenses did Svetoslav inflict on us? Tell us more in detail, please.

          1. 97110
            97110 26 August 2017 09: 56
            +1
            What the
            Quote: Mac Sim
            Svetoslav?
            Tell us, we will listen. If you can, without obscene inscriptions.
            1. Maksim
              Maksim 26 August 2017 10: 24
              +2
              So you were surprised that we are not raising the topic. You probably have something to tell us. So come on, enlighten. None of the Bulgarians about Svyatoslav did not stutter. And in the themes of his campaigns in VO, too, did not breed holivars.
              I look forward to telling us with interest.
              1. 97110
                97110 26 August 2017 10: 57
                +1
                Quote: Mac Sim
                I’m waiting with interest to tell us what

                This is your flange, nasty things to write about Russia. What rests, too lazy to request a training manual? There, I remember, the mountain resorts of the Rostov Region and the coast of Belarus, a lady from the State Department painted at a time. Nothing-nothing tell me? For such a "holy" cause? Or are the Kiev princes now purely members of NATO, like the Bulgarians?
                1. Maksim
                  Maksim 26 August 2017 11: 09
                  +3
                  You write nasty things, you and others like you. You are responsible for rudeness and antics. You asked
                  Quote: 97110
                  If you can, without obscene inscriptions.


                  And then the familiar diarrhea:
                  Quote: 97110
                  This is your flange, nasty things to write about Russia. What rests, too lazy to request a training manual? There, I remember, the mountain resorts of the Rostov Region and the coast of Belarus, a lady from the State Department painted at a time. Nothing-nothing tell me? For such a "holy" cause? Or are the Kiev princes now purely members of NATO, like the Bulgarians?


                  So let's imagine what Svyatoslav did to the Balkans and how he offended us. Or you are weakly confessing to ignorance of their history.
                  1. 97110
                    97110 26 August 2017 17: 06
                    0
                    Quote: Mac Sim
                    Or you are weakly confessing to ignorance of their history.

                    Yes, your new masters do not know the written alternative history of Bulgaria, a member of NATO. And I’m not sad. If you, a literate person who speaks satisfactorily in a foreign language, consider it permissible to use obscene expressions when communicating with a stranger, I can imagine how far your people lagged behind Great Ukraine. Start digging the Black Sea already, otherwise America will prefer a reserve of skakuas to your country and give them your place as your beloved wife.
                    1. Maksim
                      Maksim 26 August 2017 17: 45
                      +2
                      Sorry for the picture, apparently in the context of our communication, it is inappropriate.

                      Let's look at the rest of the points right now:
                      I don’t know the alternative history of Bulgaria-NATO member.

                      This is understandable - such is not in nature, that despite the general level of knowledge it is not surprising that you are not aware of that.

                      Say that
                      a competent person who speaks satisfactorily in a foreign language, consider it permissible to use obscene expressions when communicating with a stranger,
                      , but allow yourself the arrivals in relation to strangers and the whole people, too, is not gutt.

                      But because of such statements
                      Start digging the Black Sea already, otherwise America will prefer a reserve of skakuas to your country and give them your place as your beloved wife.
                      and get
                      obscene expressions with communication
                      .

                      If the mezhsaboyuchik resolved, let us right now go back to your prince Svyatoslav and his insults. Tell us about them, and we rebel.
                      1. 97110
                        97110 26 August 2017 21: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Mac Sim
                        If the mezhsaboyuchik resolved, let us right now go back to your prince Svyatoslav and his insults. Tell us about them, and we rebel.

                        Between the cabal resolved. I’m afraid that I can’t understand you in some places, but still you’re not writing in Russian. Here it is: "back to your prince Svyatoslav and his insults." Prince of Kiev Svyatoslav embarked on an expedition to Bulgaria. He was not a baptized man (Russia was baptized by his son), in other words, a pagan. The purpose and reasons for his expedition with us are set out rather indistinctly, attention is focused on the heroic defense of Dorostol from the superior forces of the Romans and Svyatoslav’s words about "that the dead do not have shame." You noticed exactly that I do not know the history of Bulgaria. But the fact of Svyatoslav’s military expedition to Bulgaria is there, which suggests room for claims on your part. For some reason, no claims are made, although in the undeniable issues of participating in world wars on the side of Germany, you are trying very hard to steal cancer by stone (you don’t necessarily do it personally, I write under the influence of comments and your compatriots). Which served as the basis for the proposal to you to practice accusing Russia and the Russians of Svyatoslav’s acts on Bulgarian territory. If my comments hurt you, please take into account the fact that Soviet education convinced us of the eternal gratitude of the Bulgarians. The fact of alliance with Germany was related to the insidiousness of the Germans and the innocence of the Bulgarian people. All the more painful is the fact that no one is going to thank us, such white and fluffy ones. And all join NATO and are going to kill us, and plunder our Motherland. Even Ukraine.
    2. Bagatur
      Bagatur 24 August 2017 18: 20
      +1
      And what do you dislike about dear?
      1. odometer
        odometer 24 August 2017 18: 54
        +3
        The course of your thoughts. Russia (USSR) was good when it fed the social camp and other "developing" ones, and when everything collapsed and everyone was driven away from the trough, then Russia became bad and guilty. Well, cookies, maybe someone tastes better than Russia ...
        1. Maksim
          Maksim 24 August 2017 22: 17
          +3
          Aw, oh well. They fed straight with a spoon? Or canned us threw? I don’t understand why it’s always the same thing - if there are no normal arguments, why should we invent it? After recounting all debts in 1994, both countries agreed that Russia owes Bulgaria 100 mil. green. Fed say ...
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 24 August 2017 23: 13
            +5
            The history of the debt of Bulgaria is one of the strangest. Bulgaria was among the close allies of the USSR, almost all industrial enterprises of our neighbor, as well as large infrastructure facilities were built with the assistance of the USSR, such as, for example, factories in the ports of Burgas and Varna, as well as the Kozloduy NPP. Nevertheless, former friends calculated a debt of $ 100 million to us.
            Then explain how you fed the USSR!
            1. Maksim
              Maksim 25 August 2017 08: 02
              +2
              I remember that they collaborated. And the fact that they fed someone will leave you to swing the rights and fantasize.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 25 August 2017 08: 18
                +2
                And you tell us without FANTASIES -
                FOR WHAT RUSSIA SHOULD BULGARIA 100 MILLION DOLLARS?
                Give economic justification!
                And we will read!
                and if you have information - did BULGARIA pay off debts on loans taken from the USSR?
                1. Maksim
                  Maksim 25 August 2017 15: 34
                  +3
                  For the delivered products. Or do you think that the Russian Federation paid because of its kindness?
                  The debt of the USSR was calculated as supplied products from the USSR and calculated delivered from Bulgaria. It turned out - 100 lemons.
                  About specifics google. Everything is online.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 15
                    +2
                    ECONOMIC FEEDBACK - BE GOODS BY FORM KS-2 ...
                    And WE consider who SHOULD MUCH ...
                    1. Maksim
                      Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 25
                      +2
                      So the Russian government recognized and paid the debt. What other consideration seems to you. The train left, my dear, there was a debt, it was paid and life continued.
                2. alatanas
                  alatanas 29 August 2017 16: 08
                  0

                  Here is the plate
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 29 August 2017 16: 27
                    0
                    The plate is wonderful! But I, Mr. MAK-SIM, asked for the calculation of the USSR DEBTS before BULGARIA! With Poland, the same 10%, with the Czechs and the German Democratic Republic of Germany, a little more! Fine!
                  2. alatanas
                    alatanas 29 August 2017 16: 27
                    0

                    Here is a continuation, see: http://istmat.info/node/26784
            2. pytar
              pytar 26 August 2017 22: 12
              +3
              Do you think that the system of commodity circulation, the recalculation of payments in “convertible rubles” and the form of economic cooperation in the CMEA were unfair and flawed for the USSR? And did Bulgaria force the USSR to such conditions? Probably Bulgaria used its overwhelming ideological, political, economic and military superiority over the weak and feeble Soviet Union .... ??? fool In real life, the entire system of non-market economic cooperation between the socialist countries was developed and imposed by them on the Soviet Union. Okay ... let's move on ... So! After all, the Russian Federation has not fed anyone for a long time? He sells all his own for dollars, euros and other currencies! Are you better off now than under socialism? If better, then there is nothing to cry for the bad. If it’s worse, it means either they didn’t feed anyone before, or now they feed, but someone else ... And if there is no difference, then what is the problem?
          2. hohol95
            hohol95 24 August 2017 23: 27
            +5
            In October 1944, the command of the 3rd Ukrainian Front granted Bulgaria 595 tons of fuel and oil products (300 tons of kerosene, 200 tons of gasoline, 80 tons of gasoline and 15 tons of engine oil) for sowing. In addition, several vessels were handed over to the shipping company in Ruse, and military personnel and equipment of the 3rd Ukrainian Front took part in the restoration of railways and bridges.
            In January 1945, the USSR provided Bulgaria with 2065 tons of fuel for the merchant fleet and 800 tons of cotton for textile enterprises (which were threatened by closure due to the cessation of supplies of raw materials).
            On March 14, 1945, the first agreement on trade and economic cooperation between Bulgaria and the USSR was concluded, according to which the USSR began deliveries to Bulgaria of cotton, oil products, metal, metal products and agricultural implements. Only until the end of 1945 Bulgaria received from the USSR 104,3 thousand tons of fuel and oil products, 45 thousand tons of metal, 11,8 thousand tons of chemicals, 22 thousand tons of medicines, 30 830 units of agricultural machinery and agricultural equipment, 200 electric motors .
            in addition, Soviet troops assisted in the spring sowing campaign in April - May 1945: they plowed 15 thousand hectares and sowed 4540 hectares of arable land.
            In the spring of 1946, the Bulgarian government asked the United States to provide a loan of $ 10 million, but the US government refused to provide a loan "for political reasons and due to the uncertain financial situation of Bulgaria."
            In August 1946, the USSR granted a loan of $ 500 thousand to the Bulgarian People’s Bank for the purchase of ships.
            In 1948-1952 with the assistance of Czechoslovakia, 15 power plants, a mine and a concentration plant at the Medet copper deposit were built; with the assistance of the GDR, several pulp and paper mills were built.
            You paid with Czechs and Germans ???
            At the end of 1960, the USSR granted Bulgaria a long-term loan of 650 million rubles for the construction of the Kremikovsky Metallurgical Plant and the Maritsa-Vostok TPP.
            With the help of the USSR, the food industry was created, whose products (tobacco and tobacco products, fresh and canned vegetables and fruits) were exported, including to the USSR.
            In 1967, Bulgaria entered into an agreement on the import of wood from the USSR, which was used as raw material in the country's pulp and paper plants. Wood supplies continued until 1994.
            For the construction of major economic facilities, Bulgaria received loans from the USSR at 2% per annum. Payment of loans, as a rule, was made by the products of enterprises built at their expense. This helped to reduce the time needed to overcome the country's technical and economic backwardness and accelerate its economic development.
            For more than 50 years, at first the USSR, and then Russia, fully ensured the import needs of Bulgaria in natural gas and wood; until the mid-80s - almost entirely in coal and electricity, 80% in oil, 87% in iron ore and a little less - in cotton. Moreover, for example, oil was supplied in such volumes that it and its refined products were for many years goods that Bulgaria re-exported to the West.
            At the same time, Bulgaria participated, within the framework of an agreed CMEA integration plan, in the joint construction of facilities on the territory of the USSR: Ust-Ilimsk Pulp and Paper Mill, Kiyembaevsky Asbestos Mining and Processing Plant, capacities for the extraction and enrichment of iron-containing raw materials in Krivoy Rog, Orenburg gas trunkline - The western border of the USSR, etc. NRB supplied machines, equipment, materials, and consumer goods for these facilities. After the commissioning of these facilities, Bulgaria received cellulose, asbestos, iron-containing raw materials and ferroalloys, and natural gas for 12 years in accordance with its share.
            1. Walking
              Walking 25 August 2017 18: 21
              +1
              Bulgaria was not worth the blood of Russian soldiers, it was necessary to leave it to the Turks.
              1. Maksim
                Maksim 25 August 2017 22: 02
                +3
                Let's broader - Bulgaria was not worth the blood of Russian soldiers, it was necessary to leave it to the Turks. And they themselves stormed the Dardanelles on mattresses.
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 13
                  +2
                  And THIS WE ARE - left to CHURCH people in the FIRST WORLD ...
                  1. Maksim
                    Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 23
                    +3
                    Be afraid, we know, read Fomenko. And the pyramids were built, and the sea helped the Ukrainians dig, and the fate of Churchill was decided ...
                2. Sergey Medvedev
                  Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 00: 34
                  +2
                  Quote: Mac Sim
                  And they themselves stormed the Dardanelles on mattresses.

                  Why on mattresses? Constantinople took the prophetic Oleg. No mattresses. In all senses. )
                  1. Maksim
                    Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 21
                    +3
                    Did you take it straight? Are you sure what exactly Constantinople took?
                    1. Sergey Medvedev
                      Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 09: 20
                      +2
                      Quote: Mac Sim
                      Did you take it straight? Are you sure what exactly Constantinople took?

                      I am sure. And he took and took, and nailed the shield to the gates of Constantinople. And he took a tribute from the Byzantines. Do you have other versions?
                      1. Maksim
                        Maksim 26 August 2017 10: 13
                        +3
                        I didn’t take it, but played pranks in the vicinities of Constantinople, got a certain amount of junk and small things, and departed for its dense forests. And the fact that the shield was nailed in the name of avoiding holivars, we assume that it was so.
                        They managed to take Constantinople by storm only in 1204, so Oleg didn’t have to do this.
                        Osafa in the past centuries was a troublesome and dangerous business. Conducting it and taking it with a fortress was not easy. And nowhere is it indicated that Oleg took the city. Go and study hard.
              2. pytar
                pytar 26 August 2017 22: 32
                +3
                Quote: Hiking
                Bulgaria was not worth the blood of Russian soldiers, it was necessary to leave it to the Turks.

                The Straits from Asia Minor are far away than from the Danube. It would be closer, they would not release us, but the Kurds ...
        2. Bagatur
          Bagatur 26 August 2017 15: 05
          +2
          Russia (USSR) was good when it fed the socialist camp
          You can argue with what we were fed? They supplied energy carriers, etc., at prices lower than prices ... well, no one begged you to teach us how to build socialism? If the empire wanted, the price pays for it! All of Eastern Europe is 45 years old under a boot, if someone didn’t want to like Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia 1968 we remember how we fulfilled our international duty ... Then we left ourselves ... why? Again it’s our fault that the Union fell apart ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
  6. Maksim
    Maksim 24 August 2017 22: 21
    +3
    Quote: curvimeter
    interesting to read the comments of the Bulgarian "brothers" ... well, no words ...


    What, you to us "brother"?
    1. odometer
      odometer 25 August 2017 05: 39
      +2
      Therefore, this word is also in quotation marks. There were, of course, flaws ... Comrade Stalin thought it over, but I wasn’t prompted there, to divide you between the Turks and Serbs and the Sabbath ... laughing
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 25 August 2017 15: 39
        +2
        It is good that there was no DB there. Sit on the forum. So at least you can’t do anything stupid.
  7. koevoet
    koevoet 25 August 2017 01: 19
    +5
    Glory to Russia! Thank you brothers!
  8. Maksim
    Maksim 25 August 2017 22: 06
    +3
    Quote: Serg65
    VMRO fighters in Macedonia,

    T. called these fighters were the Bulgarians fighting for their freedom. Many of them were Bulgarian writers, politicians, etc. And only their strength allowed the Bulgarian officer to write "Dead is no longer our enemy."

    But you don’t understand. Go and whine that we are in NATO. Soon there will be all neighboring countries. You’re already talking about ..., let’s say, missed.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 18
      +1
      Dig field latrines for the ARMY OF FREEDOMS from Western EUROPE and FROM THE ATLANTIC OCEAN! For more, your ARMY ... DRACONIDES BETTER YOU!

      THIS POSTCARD WILL BE FOR YOU ALWAYS ACTUAL ...
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 16
        +2
        So what? We saw other pictures.

  9. Maksim
    Maksim 25 August 2017 23: 10
    +3
    Quote: hohol95
    Then DO NOT PUSH US IN THE Muzzle - KHARU OF THE PACT OF MOLOTOV-RIBENTROP!
    Not yet matured ... There WAS NO FORCE, do not "whistle" - IN THE DEBTS YOU WERE BEFORE THE 3 REICH ...


    They poke into a mug so that they would not build themselves noble institutes. When you insist on your right to conclude contracts in your interest, have the dignity to recognize the right of others to do the same. As for the one who has grown up, you already blew the ears of the whole galaxy about how you had your 37th year, the army was beheaded, the reform was underway, rearmament, etc., etc. And so we are so smart that the pacts conclude that -b delay time. And for us, others must be a mountain.
    And what was such a debt to the Reich? The Bulgarian king paid his life for his decision not to send troops on the Eastern Front. For his entire reign, he tried to avoid his father’s mistake and wanted to avoid Bulgaria’s participation in the war by any means.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 22
      +1
      FOR THIS DEBT - On March 12, 1938, Germany granted Bulgaria a loan of 30 million Reichsmarks for the purchase of weapons.
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 03
        +3
        Yes, you make me laugh. In the same 1938, Bulgaria received from France 375 million francs for the purchase of weapons. We follow your logic - it means that we are more in debt to the Third Republic. Thinking with patterns is fraught with blundering stupidity, because first read, and then scribble on the clave.
    2. hohol95
      hohol95 25 August 2017 23: 40
      +2
      YOU are behaving like a thief-tweezers "BRICK" from the film "PLACE OF MEETING IS NOT CHANGED" -
      ..So you don’t have any methods against Kostya Saprykin!
      No.
      Witnesses, lively!
      Go there, comrade.
      Good morning, Comrade Captain.
      Hello.
      Well, Saprykin.
      What?
      What did you do there again?
      It's nothing.
      Here, the wallet was stolen from a citizen.
      Stolen!
      Purse?
      Which wallet?
      On, search.
      Search.
      Over there, in the left pocket.
      Sit down
      Whose wallet is it?
      My!
      My wallet.
      So.
      Have you seen everything?
      Make a withdrawal.
      Please pass.
      This is my wallet.
      What is this done?
      It's him, milton!
      He slipped my wallet at the entrance to his pocket!
      You bastard!
      What a bastard!
      Citizen, we rode together ...
      Sit down!
      So you already have a term.
      And you, stupid, still taunted me.
      Here's a proverb to you: do not wake famously while it is quiet.
      Now I'm starting the 2nd part of the concert at the request of radio listeners.
      Goosebumps!
      Comrade Major?
      Hello, Zheglov says.
      Kondrat Filimonovich!
      Sharapov and I helped you a little.
      They took the bricks!
      In the act, of course.
      Kondrat Filimonovich!
      Sit down!
      You have a thousand different feats here.
      So you approached your little man.
      We are here in the 17th vacation together.
      Let them deal with him from the heart ...

      AND ANOTHER person from the AMERICAN BATTLE "RED HEAT" said - WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE ...
      PROOF WITH A REFERENCE TO DOCUMENTS!
      Otherwise, your CHOPPING - NOTHING worth it!
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 26 August 2017 07: 05
        +2
        What documents need to be presented? And do I need to hand over the keys to the apartment where the money is?
  10. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 10: 58
    +2
    Maksim,
    Quote: Mac Sim
    Go and study hard.

    I can also tell you where and how far to go. Your pearls "Oleg played a little fools and left" are on a par with Napoleonic and Hitler excuses "the Russian army is nothing, but we froze."
    And by the way, what about the Nord Stream-2 bet. (read one of my answers above).
  11. Maksim
    Maksim 26 August 2017 11: 16
    +3
    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Your pearls "Oleg was a little naughty and left"

    So mine looks very pale against the background of your statement:
    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Constantinople took the prophetic Oleg.


    I did not send you. He even kindly offered to get acquainted on the topic before you tell us tales. This is where you can find out where and when besieged and BRAL Constantinople - Google on the Wiki "Siege of Constantinople" and have fun.

    Thank you, of course, for being put on a par with Napoleon and Hitler, but I will refuse such honor. You better be equal to them.

    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    And by the way, what about the Nord Stream-2 bet. (read one of my answers above).

    What will we argue - a million dollars or immediately to the solar system?
    1. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 20: 27
      +2
      Quote: Mac Sim
      What will we argue - a million dollars or immediately to the solar system?

      It is written there. I bet 100 dollars. You can bet a million. if there is.
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 26 August 2017 20: 45
        +1
        Hmm there about turning bags directly and I want to mention, but no way down.
  12. Maksim
    Maksim 26 August 2017 11: 41
    +3
    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Your pearls "Oleg was a little naughty and left"


    By the way, quote Wiki
    The campaign is described in detail in the "Tale of Bygone Years" (early XII century) and ended with the signing of a peace treaty in 907. Widely known in Russian society for the phrase: "Prophetic Oleg nailed his shield on the gates of Constantinople." However, this raid is not mentioned in any Byzantine or other source, except for Old Russian chronicles.


    And then you get offended when they say that Murzilka and serious books are not the same thing.
  13. Maksim
    Maksim 26 August 2017 12: 23
    +2
    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    It is interesting to see the wonders of propaganda. How you have everything turned upside down and distorted. RI / USSR / RF is to blame for all the troubles of Bulgaria. You have already ripened to shoot at us.


    And I read that it was the BULGARIAN soldiers who refused in the exercises to shoot at targets depicting Russian soldiers. Thank you poorly for this?

    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Quote: Mac Sim
    Bulgaria did not ship goods to Germany. Her ships on the Black Sea were transferred to Germany - this time.

    The design of ships is not important. It is important that these ships helped Hitler to kill Russian people. With the consent of the Bulgarian authorities.


    Three times HA. And how many Soviet citizens died from the guns of 5 Bulgarian transports?

    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Quote: Mac Sim
    Bulgaria helped Hitler, just like on what basis were your troops in Iran. Or you also fought against the Germans there - it’s two. Bulgaria didn’t declare war because you did your best to maintain neutrality - only three.

    There is no resemblance. We introduced troops into Iran without the objectives of capture and appropriation. After the war, troops were withdrawn. The troops were introduced under the agreement of 1922, which has still not been canceled, by the way.


    At the request of Tehran, yes? And from the south, the British pinned. Also on the grounds of the contract of 1922

    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Quote: Mac Sim
    Again, NATO is impossible because we entered it only once. But you know better - this is four.

    Do not pretend to be stupid. It is clear that specifically NATO exists once. The point is that Bulgaria almost always chooses anti-Russian military alliances.


    I don’t think that we can calmly discuss Bulgaria’s participation in various unions and, most importantly, the reasons for its participation in them. But if you can keep yourself within the bounds of decency, we can try.

    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Quote: Mac Sim
    The collapse of the ATS and the SPZ to your own conscience and cry about flows and trickle is not worth it.

    Well, at least here you are right. Brokeback really broke a lot of firewood. And we have more complaints against him than yours. True, we do not cry and do not lie under anyone. We are arming ourselves. Crimea returned. And Bulgaria, being a part of NATO will not regain anything, neither Macedonia nor Thrace. Nothing. In alliance with the West, you are only losing your territory.


    Just think in alliance with you multiplied. The processes here are much more complicated. And do not forget that to the tune of the USSR and the Comintern created the so-called. Macedonians. But history does not know the subjunctive mood.

    Quote: Sergey Medvedev
    Quote: Mac Sim
    Let’s see if something will happen in the north or your friend Trump will ban it in the interest of Ukraine.

    Yes, we'll see. The story is not over yet. True, before the United States was against the gas pipeline, back in Soviet times. But Germany did not care. And now the needs of Germany are provided by Nord Stream-1. From SP-2 they will have revenues for transit. What Bulgaria refused. (Obama banned South Stream). Although it is possible, you will blame Russia here. In general, Germany and Bulgaria are different countries in this gas sector. What is permitted to Jupiter is not permitted to the bull. I bet $ 100 that the SP-2 will be built.


    Ok, to be built. The question here is whether the Russian Federation will be able to implement its strategy of influence in Europe with the help of energy resources (since it cannot be a weapon, we will be gas) or not. So far, the strategy is not very good. But the big game will end when the penultimate person on the planet dies.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 26 August 2017 15: 18
      +1
      And still it’s a pity that Bulgaria entered the war in 1915 on the side of Germany and Turkey. It would be the other way round, it would be better for all of us, both Russians and Bulgarians.
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 26 August 2017 16: 15
        +2
        This option was envisaged in 1910-11, when the Balkan Union was created. The pre-war planning involved the deployment of the forward base of the Black Sea Fleet in Burgas, where the expeditionary force landed. Then, together with BA, they took Istanbul and led Turkey out of the war. The benefits were obvious, but it did not happen. Why it happened so much can be polemicized, but the main discord in the Bulgarian-Russian relations came in 1913, when Russia refused to fulfill its obligations as an arbiter in the demarcation of Macedonia. Serbia under the London Treaty did not get access to the Adriatic and territory in Albania and rightly claimed compensation. But she refused to transfer Bulgaria and the territories east of the demarcation line and dividing Macedonia into two halves (uncontested, which Serbia agreed to give in 1911 and controversial, the fate of which Nicholas II had to decide). A separate song was the position of Greece, which somehow fought in the Balkan Union, but the operation carried out on its own. There, in general, the territories were not divided before the war and all the noise and din revolved around Solun.
        The contradictions were not at all insurmountable, but the refusal of Serbia and Greece generally agreed, as the intrigues of the Armed Forces around the division predetermined the onset of VBV. During the Inter-Allied War, Bulgaria planned by means of a limited offensive IN MACEDONIA to force Serbia to abandon the indisputable part. Errors in assessing the foreign policy situation and their forces led to defeat, although before entering the wars of Romania and Turkey (which Russia was supposed to stop under the agreement of 1911), things at the front were not quite bad and there was no clear winner in the Balkan fight.
        And after Bulgaria was defeated and more than half a million refugees from the same Macedonia and Western Thrace poured into the countries, you know who appointed the guilty, and whom the traitor.
        That is why even after 1913 Russia was no longer trusted in Sofia. Although during the Bulgarian summer of 1915, the Bulgarian government tried (without much enthusiasm, however) to persuade RI to fulfill its obligations and put pressure on Serbia. In St. Petersburg, they refused to press and simply asked Belrad. But Germany was ready to recognize for Bulgaria the entire territory that she could stake for herself during the war, and also forced Turkey to return to Bulgaria some territories in East Thrace under the London Treaty. Since the BA has repeatedly routed the Serbian army, I think the choice of Bulgaria was obvious. I will not argue whether it was worth it or not. Almost 1/6 of the population at that time were refugees from those territories, and many politicians and social activists came from Macedonia and Thrace.
        Having not received support from St. Petersburg, Bulgaria hoped for Berlin and Vienna. And the Bosphorus landing operation had to be transferred from the Bay of Burgas to Sevastopol.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 26 August 2017 18: 48
          +1
          Leave aside sentiment. BUT!
          In 1915 it was clear to EVERYONE, including an ally of the Central Powers of Italy, that they had lost the war. There was no blitzkrieg, no victory. The question is the time and price of the Victory. But the Bulgarian leadership had no intuition, no foresight, and nothing at all but a petty-Stotinkov-Gabrovsky insult to the Serb neighbors who were successful in wars. And this petty, stupid, insignificant insult led Bulgaria to the camp of the vanquished, to humiliation and defeat. Even the Romanians (Romanians, Karl!) Made the right choice.
          Bulgaria could get a huge cart of trophies and a small cart in addition, no one interfered with getting weapons from the Germans and cutting land from the Turks, go to the aid of Gallipoli, together with the 9th Shcherbachev army.
          And the world war would end two years earlier.
          1. Maksim
            Maksim 26 August 2017 19: 41
            +2
            This one
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            except petty-Stotinkov-Gabrovsky resentment at the Serb neighbors who were successful in wars. And this petty, stupid, insignificant insult

            the sentimental and emotional approach to the New and Contemporary Bulgarian history is the reason for all the insulting costs here and between countries in general.
            Like the red line through all the wars of the twentieth century, there is one attempt to regain the territory where the majority of the living population were Bulgarians. And that’s all. There were no deep strategic calculations and attempts at world dominance (Ferdinand’s attempts to pose as a Roman triumph in Istanbul will be attributed to poor initial education). The Bulgarian elite fought for the reunification of the Bulgarian people.
            But if you adhered to the approach you mentioned, then yes. That is how they would get the most benefit. But at least one cannot be blamed for Bulgaria - it never abandoned and sold its allies. And she always fought to the end.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 26 August 2017 20: 33
              +1
              These are all words. An attempt to make a good face in a catastrophic game.
              Entering the war on the side of Germany and Turkey is worse than a crime.
              Otherwise, the Bulgarians could even have “overseas territories” in Asia Minor. Yes, and all other issues would have been resolved.
              1. Maksim
                Maksim 26 August 2017 20: 46
                +2
                Once again I draw you attention that your reasoning has nothing to do with reality.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 26 August 2017 21: 00
                  +1
                  Italy declared war on May 23, 1915, Austria, Romania a year later, Greece a year later.
                  All of them received, like Serbia, serious cuts in the territory as a result of the war.
                  Bulgaria chose the road with the vanquished and lost the land.
                  I repeat. It was already clear to everyone that Germany would lose this war.
                  1. Maksim
                    Maksim 26 August 2017 21: 56
                    0
                    Then why do you think Bulgaria fought on the side of Germany?
                    1. Koshnitsa
                      Koshnitsa 26 August 2017 22: 20
                      +1
                      This is a mystery. This is a question that a thousand wise men will not answer. Extremely illogical action. The question most likely lies in a psychological unknown plane. You, Bulgarian, know better to you.
                      And do not look for simple logical explanations.
                      1. Maksim
                        Maksim 26 August 2017 22: 40
                        0
                        Here at VO two years ago posted a good review on the topic:

                        https://topwar.ru/amp:84242-bolgarskie-bratushki-
                        vstupayut-v-voynu.html
                      2. verner1967
                        verner1967 27 August 2017 07: 07
                        +1
                        Quote: Koshnitsa
                        This is a mystery. This is a question that a thousand wise men will not answer.

                        why so? Bulgaria needed to take their lands from Greece and Serbia, who fought on the side of the Entente, as they (the Bulgarians), going on the side of the Entente could have done it. The logical answer is, you need to go against the Entente, but not to fight on the Russian or French front, but to quietly chop off the territories of your neighbors. And the fact that Germany will certainly lose was not yet known. Something like this.
                      3. pytar
                        pytar 27 August 2017 11: 20
                        +3
                        This is not Bulgaria, but Russia fought on the wrong side! Against Germany, for the interests of the Anglo-Saxons! The eternal enemies of the Slavs!
                2. pytar
                  pytar 26 August 2017 23: 25
                  +5
                  Mac Sim, these people don’t understand what the talk is about. They don’t even try to understand. A sad picture is drawn ... No. My family is from Macedonia. When there the Serbs entered the 1913 from the north, and the Greeks from the south, it became worse than with the Turks! Some of our fled to Bulgaria, some stayed there. Many of ours perished at the hands of Serbs and Greeks! These atrocities indescribably! When the WWII began, all of us were looking forward WHEN and Bulgaria to declare war hated by Serbs and Greeks, so that they would go to the fronts to free their relatives in Macedonia!
                  1. Maksim
                    Maksim 27 August 2017 07: 33
                    +3
                    Hooray! Help came and sent cartridges !!!
                    SW pytar, in my opinion the adult generation harbored a grudge, and the younger one because of the peculiarity of education does not even want to understand what we are talking about. The site is grabbing adequate articles, but there is a tendency - it doesn’t have any sense of what it is about. Only the word "Bulgaria" acts on them like a red rag to a bull. And begins "NATO, and you have always fought against us, and you are now preparing to hit us in the back, and you are this, and you are ...."
                    My grandfathers fought during the wars - one died during the First Balkan, and one fought during World War II and passed the battles at Drava. And because of people like him, Bulgaria, although it was a member of the Triple Alliance, did not suffer as after the PMV. And when I watch gov ... stuffing about how Bulgaria participated in WWII and where it participated and why it participated, I understand that it’s better to shoot the patient, it’s not being treated.
                    As we can explain to couch experts, here is the same as the main WHY the Bulgarian militia consisted of 12 squads (more than two brigades) and fought on equal footing with Russian battalions. And why no one in Bulgaria touches the monuments of Russian soldiers and officers of the RTV of 1877-78, despite all the changes in politics. Why did BA battalions make 50-70 km of marches from the south on the western border and immediately threw themselves into a bayonet attack from marching columns in 1885, or after the announcement of mobilization in 1912, the soldiers were escorted as at a wedding, escorted by the entire population, as in Macedonia volunteer battalions during the PBB equivalent to a full-blooded division. And why did the Macedonian harami squad restrain the Turkish landing at Sharkoya and delayed the first wave while reinforcements arrived. And then defeated and bloodless, mired in debt and internal problems because of refugees, Bulgaria, after 2 years, again fought and set the heat for everyone who came with an ax.
                    But after 20 years there was already no such enthusiasm and the regiments did not go into a psychic attack with the banners deployed and regimental orchestras in front. This was not our war. And not because they really wanted to enter into an alliance with Germany, but that there wouldn’t be again in Bulgaria the "black regiments" so called because of the headscarves of soldier widows after the WWII.
                    Sidish, you read the stupidities of these nobles and you’re a bastard.
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 27 August 2017 11: 36
                      +5
                      Hi Mac Sim! Everything is as you say! The problem for most of our opponents here is elementary! Ignorance and inability to look at the situation from the other side. Moreover, it is incomprehensible to them that Russia may be wrong in one or another situation! After all, if we accept our arguments, they will be forced to admit that they were wrong! And they perceive this as weakness, as a retreat ... Therefore, they go to all sorts of tricks and slip away from the essence of the issues! Propaganda has worked for many years! Myths about the betrayal of the Bulgarians, about our lack of grace and a bunch of similar ones have been replicated for a long time! They are inspired from the outside and have the ultimate goal of alienating our fraternal peoples. The effect of this propaganda is more noticeable in Russia. As for Bulgaria, ours are weakly prone to Russophobian suggestions. Our mentality is different. I want to thank you and our other Bulgarians here, who, although in absolute numbers, fight against lies, myths and propaganda! She ... this propaganda is how anti-Bulgarian, so anti-Russian in fact! It is the same! The truth is not in the Force! Power is in the truth! Thank you guys! good
                      1. Maksim
                        Maksim 27 August 2017 12: 55
                        +1
                        Truth always wins. Whoever wins is right.
          2. pytar
            pytar 26 August 2017 23: 07
            +4
            Quote: Koshnitsa
            Let us leave aside sentiments ... But the Bulgarian leadership had no intuition, no foresight, nor anything at all except a petty-Stotinkov-Gabrovsky insult to the Serb neighbors successful in wars ...... Even the Romanians ... did the right thing choice ... Bulgaria could get a huge cart of trophies and a small cart in addition, no one interfered with getting weapons from the Germans and cutting land from the Turks. And the world war would end two years earlier.

            I am sure that every Bulgarian / including Russophilov / who reads your lines is amazed at how wild misunderstanding you have about the situation! You, and most of the writing here, the Russians absolutely do not understand the essence of the problem! We can’t leave sentiment, since we are talking about the exemption from foreign swindling of our millions of sonarodniks left in Macedonia! Mak-Sim told you how many refugees from these areas were! It almost every third Bulgarian has relatives there! "Macedonians" are the same Bulgarians as we are! In general, we are not talking about such trifles as “get, trophies, talega”, etc. Bulgaria did not wage a war of aggression with the goal of gaining some gain! Bulgaria was waged by the Liberation, Fair War and sung to the fronts went almost 900 thousand. BG soldier with the population of Bulgaria 4,5 million! This is the highest mobilization factor from all countries participating in WWI! They would not have gone with such a frantic desire to rot and die in dirty trenches for some clouds and gain! For Bulgaria, the question was simple! We must Free Macedonia and our brothers there! This is a continuation of the Russian-Turkish war of liberation in 1878! Who in this Sacred goal will be our friend and enemy, not we decide! We do not want to get what is not ours! We want our own! Abandoning hope for the liberation of Macedonia would mean an unimaginable betrayal against their people, which no Bulgarian government could go to, no matter what other clouds it could get! Would you leave a third of your sonarodniki under someone else's yoke in exchange for some trophies and acquisitions ??? Macedonia is the heart of Bulgaria! This is the Earth, those people without whom Bulgaria will never be whole! Sooner or later, the Republic of Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia will unite! We are one people!
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 01: 15
              0
              It would be easier to get Macedonia back into the camp of the victors, but Bulgaria went to the vanquished and shared their fate with them. That is not clear.
              What for?
              1. Maksim
                Maksim 27 August 2017 07: 36
                +2
                Explain exactly how if Serbia refused to return the indisputable part of Macedonia, RI, France and England said that later, someday we will try to convince. But Berlin and Vienna said - now and immediately get if you can take.
                I threw you a link to an article on the site - see it.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 17: 03
                  0
                  Yes, after a global victory, convincing Serbia, which got everything else, would have been easier, at least possible.
                  But to enter the Great War on the side of the doomed, this means not only not gaining anything, but also losing what is available.
                  Germany and its allies lost the war at the end of the year 15.
              2. pytar
                pytar 27 August 2017 12: 13
                +3
                All attempts by Russia to convince Serbia and Greece to transfer Bulgaria back to Macedonia did not give any result. I knowing the then mood in Bulgarian society, I can’t imagine how someone could force the Bulgarians to fight in alliance with their mortal enemies of Serbia, Greece and Romania! The inter-allied war was only a year ago before the WWII. In Macedonia itself, rebellions of the local Bulgarian population flared up against new occupiers! The anti-Bulgarian terror in this area conducted by the Greek and Serbian authorities exacerbated the situation! The Bulgarians in Macedonia, under the Serbian and Greek occupation, have lost even those limited rights that they had under the Ottoman rule! And the occupation of Dobrudzha Romanians, which was never Romanian in history, caused extreme indignation among the most tolerant Bulgarians! The very formulation of the question, how do you pose it, is absolutely erroneous! Not Bulgaria went to the vanquished! This Russia went to fight for the interests of its sworn enemies! As a result, she shared the fate of Germany and she was defeated herself! After the WWII and as a direct consequence, the Bolsheviks settled in Russia, and the Nazis in Germany! Two extremes that destroyed the normal evolutionary development of both Great countries and led to such a mega-bloody cataclysm like WWII! Anglo-Saxons began to dominate the world, pushing against one of the most dangerous geostrategic rivals - Germany and Russia! That's the whole truth!
                1. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 29 August 2017 17: 14
                  +1
                  I have one question for Bulgarian friends. I go to the Macedonian sites. The feeling that the current Macedonians do not consider themselves Bulgarians. Moreover, many young Macedonians call the Bulgarians the latest words. And they insist that the Bulgarians and Slavs are not of origin. And, as far as I understand, there is no desire to unite with the Bulgarians. Supporters of preservation of independence prevail. Plus, some are nostalgic for the SFRY and advocate closer ties with Serbia in order to counter Albanian expansion.
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 29 August 2017 17: 48
                    +2
                    For 70 years of isolation from Bulgaria and the unimaginable brainwashing, many "Macedonians" have become Macedonians! They won’t immediately come to condition! It's like from your stolen ... In general, it is debatable who actually dug up the Black Sea! Ukrainians or Macedonians !? laughing Only time and patience cure this kind of dullness. To a relative of relatives, one must relate to such. The problem looks insoluble at first glance ... because 70 years of total deception, not such a short period of time! But if we compare it with the previous 13 centuries, in which the "Macedonians" were Bulgarians, then the situation does not look so hopeless! Until recently, nobody could have imagined that Yugoslavia would break up and Macedonia would become an independent country! A year ago, no one could have imagined that finally Bulgaria and Macedonia would sign a friendship treaty and good neighborliness! Stone by stone, the wall breaks! Its foundations are not so strong ... At one point, it will collapse for good! The truth can be trampled and replaced with a lie ... But not forever! Sooner or later, the Truth will break through, and the lie will fall!
                2. alatanas
                  alatanas 1 September 2017 14: 00
                  +1
                  It is not bad for our friends to read about the Greek island of Trikery, where the first concentration camp in Europe was located in the 1913 year, about whom they "concentrated".
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9PpTRIvDIo
          3. alatanas
            alatanas 29 August 2017 16: 44
            0
            It was precisely the Rumanians who fought on the side of the Entente precisely "in Russia's favor", so then Clemenceau gave them half of Hungary and part of Transcarpathia and Bessarabia as a present. So much for the Russian ally.
    2. Sergey Medvedev
      Sergey Medvedev 26 August 2017 20: 34
      +2
      Quote: Mac Sim
      Three times HA. And how many Soviet citizens died from the guns of 5 Bulgarian transports?

      I think that directly from the guns of vehicles hardly anyone died. Or quite a bit. But these transports carried military goods for the Nazi troops. And already the Germans were killing our people with these cargoes. And Bulgaria is an accomplice to Hitler's crimes.
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 26 August 2017 20: 48
        +1
        In this sense, you are right and this is reflected in the fundamental documents of the UN. No one denies the presence of Bulgaria in the Triple Alliance. All that the Bulgarian government did was to avoid the direct participation of BA in the hostilities.
  14. Earnest
    Earnest 26 August 2017 16: 44
    0
    Quote: Mac Sim
    Aw, oh well. They fed straight with a spoon? Or canned us threw? I don’t understand why it’s always the same thing - if there are no normal arguments, why should we invent it? After recounting all debts in 1994, both countries agreed that Russia owes Bulgaria 100 mil. green. Fed say ...

    Stop-stop ... Something incomprehensible in your text about the debt. How is it - the Russian Federation should Bulgaria? Who on account of Bulgaria's debts to the USSR[i] [/ i] before the 2014 of the year in Varna was repairing the ships of the Black Sea Fleet? As far as I know, the repair of the Caesar Kunikov BDK from July 2013 to November 2014 due to Bulgaria closed this topic.
    1. Maksim
      Maksim 26 August 2017 17: 21
      0
      As for the repair of ships of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, I have no idea. The USSR’s debt to Bulgaria has always been recognized by Russia and its size ranged from 135 to 88 million. Russia made the last entry of 35,8 million in 2009.
      And due to what Russian ships are being repaired in Varna, I don’t know.
  15. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 26 August 2017 23: 29
    0
    Maksim,
    It’s a good article, but it’s not possible to understand why Bulgaria committed suicide
    1. verner1967
      verner1967 27 August 2017 07: 14
      +2
      Quote: Koshnitsa
      why Bulgaria committed suicide does not allow

      to understand this, one must study the history of relations between the Bulgarians and their neighbors from the moment of the Russo-Turkish War of 1876-1877, and to complete the picture even earlier, from the moment of the formation of the Bulgarian community in the Balkans. I once thought about the Bulgarians just like you did, until I read several articles. We just evaluate the situation from our position, the Bulgarians, naturally, with their own. Everything is complicated. After all, we, too, were with the Germans in alliances, helped each other, and in world wars we were the worst enemies, if everything is clear with the second, then why were we also against the first question. Yours faithfully hi
      1. Maksim
        Maksim 27 August 2017 12: 42
        +1
        That's it. Do you think the Serbs do not have their own visible. hi
    2. Maksim
      Maksim 27 August 2017 07: 41
      +2
      That's why:
      https://topwar.ru/57694-makedoniya-gorkiy-vkus-ne
      zavisimosti.html
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 29 August 2017 17: 16
      0
      Perhaps, just a narrow horizons for the Bulgarian politicians and the military was. Provincialism of thinking.
  16. Maksim
    Maksim 27 August 2017 08: 36
    +3
    Quote: 97110
    They broke up a brawl. I’m afraid that I can’t understand you in some places, but you are not writing quite Russian.


    I completely agree with you, my Russian language is not up to par. If I express myself too clearly, I can offer you a choice of English and German. They seem to always understand me.

    Quote: 97110
    ... there is a fact of Svyatoslav’s military expedition to Bulgaria, which suggests room for claims on your part. For some reason, no claims


    SW 97110, and which claims do you think should be presented? The raid of Svyatoslav (according to one of the walking tales he is the son of a Bulgarian princess and therefore sought in the Balkans) is nothing out of the ordinary at that time. Well, Svyatoslav took the Romance money, gathered a squad and moved to fulfill the order of the Romans. So Byzantium acted throughout history, until May 29, 1453. This is called "Byzantine diplomacy." Against Bulgaria, in addition to the Russes, at different times Byzantium poisoned the Magyars, Pechenegs and Nogai Tatars. What claims can we have, and most importantly, what insults to harbor against one lucky prince. He came, managed to defeat the Bulgarians and even take the capital, and then they gave him a nape when he turned against Byzantium.

    Quote: 97110
    in the undeniable issues of participation in world wars on the side of Germany, you are trying very hard to steal the cancer for the stone (you’re not necessarily personally, I’m writing under the influence of comments and your compatriots).

    If we leave aside the school shit trying to prove that Bulgaria participated in the wars on the German side because of its Aryan origin (in principle, it is not in Russian, it is not a spret in any language, so most likely you will not find Bulgarian school here) from the Bulgarians, sdes does not deny the participation of Bulgaria and does not justify it. But trying to convey to the audience here WHY Bulgaria took part - THAT is yes. But the reasons for participating in WWI and WWII are completely different. And no one otmazyvatsya, but readers simply do not perceive the very fact that Bulgaria in all wars fought not against Russia, but for itself.

    Quote: 97110
    Which served as the basis for the proposal to you to practice accusing Russia and the Russians of Svyatoslav’s acts on Bulgarian territory.


    In principle, this served as the basis for placing the picture.

    Quote: 97110
    If my comments hurt you, please take into account the fact that Soviet education convinced us of the eternal gratitude of the Bulgarians. The fact of alliance with Germany was related to the maliciousness of the Germans and the innocence of the Bulgarian people.


    In principle, this is understandable, but the flaw of this judgment can be noted right away - as I said, the very fact of participation in all wars before WWII is explained by an attempt to national unification. As for participation in the Second World War, things are completely different there. Indeed, Bulgaria was forcibly dragged in, and in order to adjust the pill, they shoved all the territories for which it had a claim. But even then in Sofia they did everything to not send troops at the front. For this I had to pay the war with the United States, Great Britain and participation in the occupation of Serbia, but did not even go near the meat grinder on the Eastern Front.
    But it was not worthwhile to demand from the "eternally grateful Bulgarians" to follow in the wake of the RI / USSR. This is what we did when between 1947 - 1953 we tried to turn all the Bulgarians living in Pirin Macedonia into Macedonians.
    The gratitude of Bulgaria for its release will not disappear anywhere, but attempts to demand something because of our release are fraught with a completely different result.

    Quote: 97110
    All the more painful is the fact that no one is going to thank us, such white and fluffy ones. And all join NATO and are going to kill us, and plunder our Motherland. Even Ukraine.


    In fact, “white and fluffy” will be left on the side for now. A lot of Russians in relation to the Bulgarians immediately begin to download rights (sorry for the bazaar) without even familiarizing themselves with our history. Against the background of the history of RI, our course is just a microscopic episode, but it’s worth understanding relations. Because it was this approach to history that ruined our relations during the reign of Alexander the 3rd, and then it went and went. Bulgaria did not even recognize the right to protect its own interest, and when it did not coincide with the interest of the Republic of Ingushetia, a howl rises (the fact that Russia acting in its interests opposes Bulgaria is not noticed), and the emphasis is on the actions of our country. For example, the Second Balkan War - Russia, which only 2 years ago made every effort to create the Balkan Union, did not at all take care to destroy the contradictions of the countries included in it. And when the battles began, she did not fulfill her obligations under the agreement (to contain Romania).
    Or Bulgaria’s entry into NATO - the USSR itself dissolved ATS and CMEA, in the 90s the Russian Federation made a lot of efforts to overthrow a couple of Bulgarian governments in order to take ownership of the country's gas transport infrastructure with a refinery in Burgas, which shook the already booming Bulgarian policy . The Russian Federation did not care at all, as it is now, about maintaining its presence here - Russian TV channels are broadcast on an initiative basis on cable TVs, specialized Russian bookstores that have been closed for a long time, and Russian books are also brought in Bulgaria on an initiative basis. The Russian Cultural Institute in Sofia looks very poor compared to any other, there are no scholarships for Bulgarian students, there are no significant cultural events with the participation of the institute. Tours of Russian ensembles and groups are organized, in my opinion, even against the will of the cultural institute. And on the other hand, the United States is doing all this many times more. And after 15 years of brainwashing, Bulgarian politicians were afraid to hold a referendum on joining NATO and its support at the lowest level of all its participants.
    So it’s not worth scolding us, it’s better to first understand your whiteness and fluffiness, before doing a show to others.
  17. Maksim
    Maksim 27 August 2017 08: 59
    +1
    Quote: hohol95
    It turns out that Dmitrov is to blame good - taking off my hat hi


    It turns out that you learned to take off your hat, but not read.
  18. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 17: 12
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Sooner or later, the Republic of Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia will unite! We are one people!

    This is wonderful, Peter. By the way, who is stopping the entry of Bulgarian troops into its territory and holding a referendum on reunification? I do not think that Russia will be against it.
    1. Maksim
      Maksim 27 August 2017 19: 10
      0
      And I'm 100% sure that no one will be FOR. After all, this could happen after a big mess.
    2. pytar
      pytar 27 August 2017 20: 20
      +3
      I understand the hint that you make by analogy with one other peninsula, but I do not want to enter into such a debate. laughing Bulgaria was the first to recognize the independence of the Republic of Macedonia! Over the 70 years, the lying Macedonian ideology has made great gossip in the minds of our sonarodniki in the Republic of Macedonia. As one “Macedonian” shared: “..in Macedonia, the anti-Bulgarian and pro-Serbian propaganda went on and on, and you / Bulgaria / looked as far away as on another continent!” It will take a lot of time for this people to be unhappy, to understand and realize what they’ve done to it! But a month ago, finally, the Treaty of Friendship and Neighborhood between our countries was signed! Hostile propaganda must also be stopped. On the isolation of Macedonia from Bulgaria comes to an end! The last Berlin Wall in Europe has fallen! The Macedonian Bulgarians themselves must understand the whole truth! Unification is possible only if it is consciously and without coercion! We do not wish anything bad for our sonarodniki in Macedonia! Alone with good intentions and patience, you can fix all the shields inflicted on Macedonism! Because the truth is on our side!
  19. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 17: 24
    0
    Quote: pytar
    This Russia went to fight for the interests of its sworn enemies!

    In 1914, the same participants attacked Russia, as in 1941.
    But let's leave these sentiments, I asked a simple question.
    Do you, the modern people of Bulgaria, the descendants of the soldiers and eyewitnesses of those events, it is not clear that to stand on the side of the vanquished, and in 1915 it was already understood all-direct path to the suicide of the country.
    Andrianopol, Thrace, Asia Minor territories, which could be exchanged with the Greeks for Solun, and of course Macedonia, Serbia, bloodless by the year 15 for the help of the Bulgarian divisions, would give away part of it, including Monastir and others. This is not a cart, these are realities.
    1. Bagatur
      Bagatur 27 August 2017 19: 14
      +1
      Not so easy, but very tempting ... Russia did not want a big Bulgaria on the way to the Bosphorus and the Dardanel and that's it! She wanted to strengthen Serbia against Austria, no matter what! In Macedonia live their Bulgarian mother to them! If the king orders the stats of the Serbs and the point! In Serbia after 1913, head to heaven as they said in Belgrade, 200 million (along with the Russians of course). And when the war started in 1914, Russia went to save them ... We all know how it ended for RI UTB in 1917 ... I read the recollections of the Colonel Azmaanov-atasha in Niš 1915. He very clearly explained that there were two parties to the Serbian elite. One king Peter, some generals and politicians had in mind a compromise .. understood that Serbia would not take another blow. But they were the last chauvinist and party with Alexander Karageorgevich (future king) they wanted Bulgaria as an enemy and finished off with her support the allies of course, Serbia itself was never capable of fighting anyone anywhere ... Russia insisted, help, after the war we will think. But after 1913, the words of Nicholas II cost nothing, no one believed him anymore!
    2. Maksim
      Maksim 27 August 2017 19: 16
      +1
      This is unrealistic. Serbia dreamed about the Dushan Empire, and Bulgaria about the borders of San Stefan Bulgaria. And no one agreed to retreat.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 19: 53
        0
        If Bulgaria became a member of the winners club, who would stop it from realizing the most tempting dreams? To do this, make the right choice in 1915.
    3. pytar
      pytar 27 August 2017 20: 51
      +3
      Sorry, but you are clearly not reading the answers to your questions. Despite the fact that we allow grammatical, etc. mistakes from Russian, we explained in a seemingly understandable language. How simpler can I say? I will try again with such an example! Let's go back imaginatively to 1915. My grandfather still has 5 brothers. All of them are from Macedonia. A year ago, one of them was killed by Serbs and Greeks. One more remained in Vardar and Aegean Macedonia. And they are being bullied! Two / my child and his brother / escaped by fleeing to Bulgaria. How do you convince him that he must conquer Turkish Asia Minor, then to bargain with the Greeks or Serbs or Romanians? A soldier needs a fair cause to fight bravely! And what is the guarantee that Serbs, Greeks and Romanians will not act as in 1913? After all, then the Bulgarian army thundering the Turks reached 37 km. from Constantinople! And at that time, our "faithful allies", without much loss, occupied Macedonia! And the Romanian army reached 15 km. from Sofia not meeting any Bulgarian soldiers! It would be at least 2 Bulgarian divisions to the north, the "brave Romanian army" and would have drowned on the Danube! As Mac-Sim has already told you, it would be possible to agree with either Serbia or Greece. It would be in their opinion, Bulgaria would not exist at all!
  20. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 17: 30
    0
    Quote: verner1967
    if everything is clear from the second, then why at the first we were against the same question.

    Because, as in the second, Germany attacked Russia first.
  21. pytar
    pytar 27 August 2017 17: 33
    +3
    Serg65,
    In the 1989 year, you decided that only boiled eggs are cooler than you, showed the USSR a fig and rushed into the world of the free market, once again deciding that Russia is not on your way and where is Russia now and where are you? How do you live there in the European Union?

    You are changing the REASON with the RESULT! Who was the first to decide to be friends with the West? Bulgaria or the USSR? Who destroyed the ATS and CMEA? Who first decided to build capitalism and abandoned socialism? Who decided that we were not on the way? Who betrayed and sold all his allies? Bulgaria or the USSR? You have a lot of “skeletons in the wardrobe”!
    And where is Russia now, where are we? Are you far advanced? Honestly, I don’t have such an impression! As for the EU, there are disadvantages to it, there are advantages. According to opinion polls 2 / 3 Bulgarians advocate for membership in the European Union.
    Problems? Does Bulgaria have geopolitical problems in the Balkans? They offered you a gas pipeline, a lot of money for modern Bulgaria, but your sexual partner was jealous of you and you did not give a damn about Russia for the fifth time! Problems, the main problem of Bulgaria is its people who themselves do not know what they want, if only the Bulgarians beckon the cookies, he will run after the ghostly happiness.

    Bulgaria, in its new history, has never had less trouble with its neighbors than now. The peoples of the Balkans want to live in peace. Everyone is tired of wars and conflicts. If forces external to our region do not intervene, everything will be fine! Not only Bulgarian, but all Balkan peoples know what they want! Peace and good neighborliness! On the topic of the gas pipeline, it’s better to shut up ... If you take information from Russian sources, then you have no idea what the talk is about.
    Once upon a time, Stalin, whom you didn’t love, did not let Tito crush Albania and broke off relations with Yugoslavia, but he invested a huge amount of money in the Bulgarian economy, and this was when the USSR itself had not yet recovered from the devastation of World War II !!! So whose chauvinism supported the USSR?

    Before arguing with Tito, Stalin supported the idea of ​​the absorption of Bulgaria from Yugoslavia. Stalin gave "good" to the monstrous in essence idea of ​​creating a "Macedonian nation". Bulgaria was lucky in this trouble, because the creation of the “Thracian nation”, the “Dobrudjan nation” and the complete elimination of Bulgarian identity and the people followed! Even the Turks did not think of such a thing! Whether you like it or not, Stalin will never be loved, for us and for all the peoples of Eastern Europe. I hope that one wonderful day and you will recover from Stalinism.
    So for Russia, Bulgaria has always been a fraternal country, by the way, like Serbia and Montenegro

    For Bulgaria, Russia is also a brotherly country and those citizens of the Russian Federation who visit us themselves see how ordinary Bulgarians treat them well. Although Russia has acted many times not fraternally with us, we do not hold a grudge. The Bulgarians and Russians have much more that connects than what disconnects!
  22. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 17: 54
    0
    Quote: pytar
    The peoples of the Balkans want to live in peace. Everyone is tired of wars and conflicts.

    Are Bulgarians tired of modern war and conflict?
    And who will return Macedonia?
    1. Bagatur
      Bagatur 27 August 2017 18: 53
      +1
      We will not fight! No one will leave us unified with Macedonia ... Let them live in peace there and not deny their Bulgarian roots! Enough for us that God has given the truth and Yugoslavia is no more!
    2. Maksim
      Maksim 27 August 2017 19: 14
      0
      And you asked the Macedonians if they want to return to Bulgaria? Russians and Belarusians are also one people. But something with the Union State is not very successful.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 19: 28
        0
        If this is one people, then why not? There will be no union with Belarus; there will be an absorption.
    3. pytar
      pytar 27 August 2017 20: 59
      +3
      To return? Why return ??? The Macedonians themselves will decide what they want. Our policy is clear - let no one touch Macedonia and let the people there determine their future.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 29 August 2017 17: 22
        0
        And if there will become over a half of the Albanian population over time?
        1. pytar
          pytar 29 August 2017 17: 55
          +3
          Presumably by the year 2030 it will be so. It is also bad with demography. If we do not unite all the branches of our people and rise together, other non-Slavic tribes will trample us. Nadeyus has a Bulgarian people living on both sides of the border, wisdom is enough and will survive this crisis! For 13 centuries we have survived in unimaginably difficult conditions and genocide! We know disasters and uplifts. We survive and this. And we will be, even when many others will be gone.
  23. Bagatur
    Bagatur 27 August 2017 18: 48
    +1
    Serbia is much more! Thanks to Russia, it has grown with many Bulgarian lands!
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 18: 51
      +1
      She chose the right ally. That's all. One step and such different consequences.
      The Serbs, having killed Obrenovic, corrected the pro-Austrian policy.
      If the Bulgarian officers did the same in the 15th year, the situation would be better.
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 27 August 2017 19: 59
        +1
        I have very big doubts about the future of Bulgaria as a state if RI held the war to the end and took Constantinople!
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 21: 11
          0
          Yes, well, fairy tales, Constantinople would have been Russian. Macedonia and Edirne are Bulgarian.
      2. pytar
        pytar 27 August 2017 21: 13
        +2
        Serbia "having chosen the right ally" has taken shape, having taken many foreign lands! Greed never leads to anything good! In the final result, having started a bunch of evil with its neighbors, Serbia lost what was its own! It was a well-deserved retribution! How vicious is such a policy, it can be seen from the simple fact that the closest ethnically and culturally peoples began to hate the Serbs! Bosnians, Croats, Slovenes ... they are ethnically the same with the Serbs! Bulgarians and Serbs, Orthodox and genetically coming peoples! And what is the result? I’ll also say about Russia ... Helping the Serbs in their expansionist plans, Russia lost much more than it gained! It seems to me that the current Serbian society has begun to understand its sins and mistakes! There comes a kind of sobering up among the Serbs! Their traditional chauvinism is waning! Misfortunes, suffering cure even the most rabid nationalist! And if the Serbs do not reason, they will get more trouble! It is time for Russia to rethink its role on the Balkans, before it is too late! Time is moving fast and everything is changing!
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 21: 33
          +1
          It’s just Russians, not governments, but people who love Serbs - this unfortunate people, distinguished by their loyalty and courage. Therefore, the Lord will help to return everything to them. The truth is on their side in the events of the 1990s. By the way, my friend was in Sarajevo in 1995 and they had a lot of Bulgarian volunteers in the squad, so in Bulgaria there are a lot of people who love Serbia and Serbs.
          1. pytar
            pytar 27 August 2017 22: 47
            +3
            this unfortunate people is unhappy because it is infected with chauvinism. The Lord is fair and will return theirs to them when the Serbs return what is not theirs. truths are different, but Truth is one. Serbian “truth” was tested on the Balkans on their backs. and in principle, the Bulgarians have no hatred for anyone, not even the Turks. Serbs in our homes would not have climbed; we would have been best friends and allies.
            1. Koshnitsa
              Koshnitsa 27 August 2017 22: 54
              0
              Serbs do not live on Bulgarian land now.
              Chauvinism is in your opinion, but in my opinion it is national pride and the ability to defend it. Serbs in 1830 became independent. They themselves. Without an uncle.
              1. Maksim
                Maksim 28 August 2017 01: 42
                +1
                Straight without uncle? They themselves became independent, because nothing depended on them. They received autonomy under the Bucharest Treaty of 1812. And he concluded RI and OI.
              2. pytar
                pytar 28 August 2017 08: 57
                +3
                I understand your idealism, but it has nothing to do with reality. Do you know what Belgrade was called in the Latin chronicles of the 9th century? Alba Bulgarica! Bulgarian Tsar Boris I built it on our western border on the site of the old Thracian village of Singidunum. Even in the center of present Serbia there are Bulgarian villages. All of today's Serbia is located on Bulgarian lands. But okay. It's not about that. Serbia is home to a significant Bulgarian national minority. It mainly lives in border regions. Serbia received these territories at the expense of Bulgaria under the Noya Treaty, after the WWII. We call them Western Outskirts. Since entering these territories in Serbia / Yugoslavia, the local Bulgarian population has always been subject to restrictions and assimilation. And in this connection I will now tell you about the events in 1995 and about the Bulgarian volunteers fighting on the side of the Serbs! During the first Yugoslav war, somewhere 500 Bulgarian volunteers fought on the side of the Serbs. At the same time, the repressions of the Serbian authorities against the Bulgarian population intensified. During the second Yugoslav war, ethnic Bulgarians were mobilized in the Yugoslav army and fought against NATO. At the same time, Serbian authorities closed Bulgarian schools and tightened repressions over the local Bulgarian population.
                1. Koshnitsa
                  Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 10: 07
                  +2
                  Serbs are winners of two world wars, unlike Bulgarians. This is the difference.
                  1. pytar
                    pytar 29 August 2017 10: 46
                    +2
                    Sometimes victories in the short term turn out to be defeats in the long term. Looking from a distance of time and judging by the current state, you cannot say that Serbia is a winner. Even in 80, our Wang said that "Yugoslavia will fall apart, because the Serbs scold God." Another Serbian forecaster / I don’t remember his name / also said that "the Serbs will get to such an extent that the whole of Serbia will narrow as much as the earth under one drain." And for 70 years we have chosen good neighborliness, peace and friendship with our neighbors! So it is necessary to resolve all conflicts.
            2. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 29 August 2017 17: 25
              +1
              Within its current borders, Serbia does not include many Serbian lands. And now there are no Bulgarian territories in its composition.
              1. pytar
                pytar 29 August 2017 17: 57
                +2
                The first is true, the second is not true. But we have no territorial claims to our neighbors. We only want them to respect the rights of ethnic Bulgarians, of which there are many.
  24. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 12: 40
    +1
    Quote: pytar
    And for 70 years we have chosen good neighborliness, peace and friendship with our neighbors! So it is necessary to resolve all conflicts.

    Like Russia. Stick to these principles, and you will free Skopje, like Russia, Crimea and everything else too.
    Need more love, more peace, strangle neighbors in an embrace and bite their lips with passion.
    Educate young people, develop paramilitary formations, and you will have your own colonels Strelkova and Motorola.
    1. alatanas
      alatanas 29 August 2017 17: 13
      +1
      Skopje is not going to "liberate" anyone by force. Residents of the FYR of Macedonia must free themselves (from foreign propaganda) and not make of Macedonian history from Bulgarian history. By the way, this is exactly what they are doing in Ukraine, although Ukrainians are new recruits. In the Slovak Republic of Macedonia (as part of Yugoslavia and to this day), they have been changing history since 1946, that is, since the birth of the so-called Macedonian nation.
    2. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 29 August 2017 17: 28
      0
      Yes, in my opinion, most modern Macedonians are not particularly willing to join Bulgaria. There are more Serbian supporters. I do not mean the Albanians of Macedonia. Those nevermind are both Bulgaria and Serbia. And for many, independent Macedonia is not needed for nothing.
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 17: 54
        0
        Our Bulgarian brothers know better.
        They love their people and their country and are ready to rise to fight with the singing "Shumi, Maritsa!"
      2. pytar
        pytar 29 August 2017 18: 00
        +2
        Most changeable concept. Overbelly heals time and only time! To consider their sonarodniki / Bulgarians / enemies, and their occupiers and tormentors / Serbs /, is not a normal thing. Will pass.
        1. Koshnitsa
          Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 18: 02
          0
          In Crimea, it passed and in the Donbass passed, brother Peter, but when will the Bulgarians say their word?
  25. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 17: 27
    0
    Quote: alatanas
    By the way, this is exactly what they are doing in Ukraine, although Ukrainians are new recruits.

    In Crimea and in the Donbass they don’t do it anymore. It’s clear why?
    Who's stopping Bulgaria from doing too.
    Moreover, Macedonia and the army do not.
    After all, Bulgaria is a free country, right?
    1. pytar
      pytar 29 August 2017 18: 02
      +2
      We do not intend to force our sonarodniki in Macedonia to find the Truth. They must seek and find it themselves. Fortunately, the whole Macedonian land on which they set foot is directly crammed with medical facts. laughing Not all the Titovists managed to destroy! They did not have enough time! This is an 13 centuries-old story! They didn’t have time to erase it permanently in 70 years!
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 18: 17
        0
        So Russia returned Crimea with love. And the Donbass itself freed itself, in vain the Leninists tried for 70 years to call this land the outskirts.
        But you have to do something?
        If something happens with Macedonia, why not come to the Bulgarian volunteer tourists and help the Macedonians open their eyes?
        In Russia, this will only be supported and helped by our Bulgarian brothers.
        1. pytar
          pytar 29 August 2017 20: 33
          +3
          Do you seriously think that you can force a person to understand that he is wrong? He will only hate you harder! Christ forced someone? You returned the Crimea, but how much blood was shed in Donbas? Russian, blood! Some Russians kill other Russians! Those are correct, but those are not! Donbass freed, but the wall remained! You just moved her a little west! Well, they broke it here and there ... I understand that the other way out was not in mind the situation. And it is clear that they stopped on time, because otherwise it would have become even worse. Now, not volunteer tourists will help, but only time. This is all about Ukraine. With Macedonia, the situation is different. So that they open their eyes, as you say, the wall must fall. She prevented them from seeing the Truth. Further everything will be easier and I hope bloodless. As for the attitude of Russia to the eventual unification of these two parts of our people, it is not as unambiguous as you think. I have to be honest! In view of the balance of power on the Balkans, Russia, such a development does not suit Russia in any way. She now continues her old policy, putting on the contradictions between the Balkan countries. Serbs are supposedly yours, but there are no Bulgarians. The Albanian threat just goes to the hand of Russian politics. The EU says to the Macedonians - come to us! For you / Macedonians / Bulgaria is the door to the EU! Improve relations with Bulgaria! This is your natural way! Russia is the opposite! Says the Macedonians - you are not Bulgarians, you are so unique Macedonians ... you and the Serbs have the same enemies! Albanians! Go from the Serbs and we will protect you all! Therefore, the Russian Federation is already reacting painfully to any improvement in relations between Bulgaria and Macedonia! He is afraid that if they unite, the route for gas pipelines will also close southwestern. Russia is supporting the Macedonists, Serbophiles, and not the all-Bulgarian unification! In the last time, she began to flirt with Erdoganov’s Turkey! This is also related to the Balkans! I do not want to go into details.
          1. Koshnitsa
            Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 22: 06
            0
            Our enemies in the Donbass are not Russians, they are Ukrainians.
            The Serbs helped to realize this difference, as they have with the Croats.
            Quote: pytar
            Serbs are supposedly yours, but there are no Bulgarians.
            They themselves achieve this, very actively, at least at the unofficial level. Bulgarians, alas, no. If the Bulgarians have no desire to cooperate, then Russia cannot overcome this for its part.
            Quote: pytar
            you and the Serbs have the same enemies! Albanians!

            These are realities. They are really enemies of the Balkan Slavs.
            1. pytar
              pytar 29 August 2017 22: 35
              +2
              Our enemies in the Donbass are not Russians, they are Ukrainians.

              Are Ukrainians not Russian? You do not confuse Ukrainians with stole? It is in the Donbass after drinking the DPR and LPR that are fighting mainly Russian-speaking Ukrainians. “Zapadnentsy”, in my opinion, is much less anti-Russian than the Ukrainian Russians.
              The Serbs helped to realize this difference, as they have with the Croats.

              How did you help? Why are Croats worse than Serbs? Have you ever been for Croats, not Serbs? During the time when the Serbian thugs hollowed Vukovar? Well, the Croats will be against you because you are for their enemies.
              They themselves achieve this, very actively, at least at the unofficial level.

              They achieve it, since they have relocated from appetite ... During Tito, they were not very friendly with the USSR. They were even unofficial members of NATO, but the ATS had to keep several armies in the Yugoslav direction ...
              Bulgarians, alas, no. If the Bulgarians have no desire to cooperate, then Russia cannot overcome this for its part.

              Who told you that? And what does collaboration mean? I guess! Do you perceive Russian interests as necessarily useful for Bulgaria? Yes? But it is not so.
              1. Koshnitsa
                Koshnitsa 29 August 2017 23: 16
                0
                two-thirds of Ukrainians are Russian-speaking, yet the Croats also spoke the same language as the Serbs.
                Croats have always been enemies not only of Serbs, but also of Russians. Their bones lie under Stalingrad. It is strange to seek friendship there, among the people traditionally hostile.
                Vukovar is a war.
                Quote: pytar
                During Tito, they were not very friends with the USSR.

                The SFRY and the USSR were anti-Serb and anti-Russian countries built on internationalism.
                Quote: pytar
                Who told you that?

                Your politicians, I'm not talking about the people.
                1. pytar
                  pytar 30 August 2017 09: 03
                  +2
                  two-thirds of Ukrainians are Russian-speaking, yet the Croats also spoke the same language as the Serbs.

                  It is from these 2 / 3 that the ATO battalions are filled. Serbs and Croats not only spoke but also speak the same language - Serbo-Croatian. In essence, these are 2 dialect forms of the same language. If you meet a Croat and a Serb, how do you distinguish them? No way. You have a very biased view of the Slavic peoples! Panslavism - the idea of ​​universal unification of the Slavs belongs precisely to the Croats! Only in Croatia the glagolitic / original Cyril and Methodius alphabet / has been preserved and used up to the middle of the 18 century! Their statehood was created almost simultaneously with the Serbian! The Serbo-Croat conflict arises after 1918, when in the newly formed Kingdom of KSHS / Yugoslavia / Serbs immediately began to infringe on the rights of other peoples! Your “Isotriks” and “political scientists” traditionally adhere to Serbian theses on events, moving away from the truth in this way! Continue self-deceiving ... True, it is prickly and it does not suit you. With such unreasonable politics and ideology, you / nobody else / made the majority of Slavic peoples almost your enemies!
                  Croats have always been enemies not only of Serbs, but also of Russians. Their bones lie under Stalingrad. It is strange to seek friendship there, among the people traditionally hostile.

                  Croats became enemies of the Russian only after the Russians allied with their enemies. True, the Croatian units fought on the eastern front. But after all, the directive of the USSR fought and more than 1,5 million former Soviet citizens! By your logic, you must write down a number of enemies of Bolshevism and a significant part of Russians and other representatives of the peoples of the USSR!
                  The SFRY and the USSR were anti-Serb and anti-Russian countries built on internationalism.

                  I agree with that.
                  Your politicians, I'm not talking about the people.

                  The Bulgarian-phobic propaganda in Russian-language media, as well as the ambiguous policy of the Kremlin, is beginning to alarm even our Russophiles. The Russian Federation has something wrong with that ... Do you know that in Bulgaria the most massive non-governmental organization is the National Russophile Movement! This is a massive organization and have structures throughout Bulgaria!
  26. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 12: 28
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Their statehood was created almost simultaneously with the Serbian!

    The Croats under Hitler in modern times, not at all in one. They are Catholics. they are enemies of the Orthodox faith.
    Most of our traitors are not rehabilitated. With Croats, we can’t have any coincidence points.
    1. pytar
      pytar 30 August 2017 13: 21
      +2
      Though google before they write! Croatian tribes simultaneously with Serbs settled in the Western Balkans in the 7 century! The principality of Croatia, which existed from the middle of the 9th century, became a kingdom after the adoption of the title of king in 925 by Tomislav I and exists until 1102! . The rulers of the Croatian kingdom were mainly representatives of the Trpimirovich dynasty. Then the union is signed with the Hungarians, etc. Ustashe pro-fascist state exists only 5 years, during WWII! This is the only shameful page in their history! Among other things, the word "ustash" in Croatian means "incorporated"! Revolted against the Serbian domination in 1929! What is Catholicism here? The Bolkans were mostly fought by the Orthodox against the Orthodox! From Croatian Catholics only Serbs fought in WWII and in the First Yugoslav War! What kind of co-religionists do I have for Serbs, if we saw only nasty things from them?
      Common with the Croats and the Serbs / we have similar languages ​​and can be understood without a translator /, I get the impression that the Croats are much more adequate than the Serbs!
      With such a distorted line of perception, you have few who have points of coincidence. Enough dreams for you! Sad
  27. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 15
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Ustashe pro-fascist state exists only 5 years, during WWII! This is the only shameful page in their history!

    They have no other.
    1. pytar
      pytar 30 August 2017 14: 50
      +2
      They have no other.

      Strange conclusion ... belay
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 15: 49
        0
        Yes, there is since 91 years. In recent history.
  28. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 14: 32
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Enough dreams for you! Sad

    Is Bulgaria surrounded by friends? It's true?
    Then I am happy for your republic, and then it does not need friendship with Russia.
    1. pytar
      pytar 30 August 2017 14: 57
      +2
      Is Bulgaria surrounded by friends? It's true?

      Hope! We are trying to be friends with all our neighbors. Erdoganov’s Turkey alone is suspicious.
      Then I am happy for your republic, and then it does not need friendship with Russia.

      Why unnecessary? Just with Russia we have the most in common! Progress in this direction will be from the beginning of March 2018, when President Putin will come for an official visit!
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 15: 51
        0
        Why? Erdogan revives neo-Ottomanism, and this is close to your friend and ally.
        But we are not neighbors yet, Peter, there Russia has come a little closer to Bulgaria, through the Crimea, but for some reason the Bulgarian little brothers are not happy about this? Why is that?
        Make a gift to Putin, recognize Crimea as Russian and you will be happy, pro-Bulgarian forces will wake up in Macedonia and we Russians will help you return the true Bulgarian lands home
        1. pytar
          pytar 30 August 2017 16: 26
          +2
          Turkey under Erdogan is not a friend or ally to anyone. Only to you. And that is conjunctural. After all, Russia quickly forgot about the plane shot down by the Turks over Syria. We then held rallies in front of the Turkish embassy in Sofia in support of Russia! Right now, C-400 will sell them.
          We are neighbors from Russia. The Black Sea is our common border. Crimea is even closer. Somewhere 340 km. Total. You have somehow got the wrong impression. We are always happy for Russia. Most of us.
          Your beloved Serbia recognized the Crimea? Has at least one country in the world recognized? I personally do not mind such recognition, but it is fraught with big problems. Indeed, many countries of the world have separatist regions. According to the Crimean incident, it will be correct if, first, Ukraine and the Russian Federation settle their relations among themselves. I am sure that we recognize your every common decision.
  29. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 16: 38
    0
    Quote: pytar
    Has at least one country in the world recognized?

    Abkhazia recognized!
    In Serbia and Bulgaria, our beloved, as well as their peoples. And Greece, beloved and Macedonia, The cliques of the enemies of the people reign here and there, but suddenly the Bulgarian government will be the first to recover and take a wise move?
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 16: 45
      0
      Ukraine will die anyway, as will Macedonia.
      If Bulgaria recognizes Crimea as Russian, then Brussels and Washington will give it a lot of money, know how to maneuver, you will live like a pasha, you will become fat and beautiful scabs, solve land problems.
      The humble are given nothing in this world, but the one who scares and acts will get everything!
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 17: 04
        0
        Tito took loans in the West, a lot of money, and then announced that he would enter into the Warsaw Pact and the West forgave him loans.
        For the Balkan countries this is a model of behavior, it is necessary to maneuver, and not be obedient servants of Brussels and Washington, or even Moscow.
        More hell!
        As the poet wrote, "Stand up the Bulgarian before it is too late!".
      2. pytar
        pytar 30 August 2017 17: 06
        +2
        "If Bulgaria recognizes Crimea as Russian .." tomorrow Turkey will organize a "referendum in Bulgaria itself ... Thanks for the advice, but it is inappropriate.
    2. pytar
      pytar 30 August 2017 17: 02
      +2
      Abkhazia itself is half recognized. All the time.
      If Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and Macedonia are your favorites, do not take a crawl position! We ourselves will understand each other! I see that you are personally well-intentioned! May the Russian government take a more balanced position on Balkan affairs! That will be a step wise!
  30. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 17: 32
    0
    Quote: pytar
    tomorrow Turkey will "organize" a referendum in Bulgaria itself ...

    We’ll give a hand, many experts will come to Bulgaria to pacify the separatists. We have many craftsmen, we will teach Bulgarian little brothers.
  31. Koshnitsa
    Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 17: 33
    0
    Quote: pytar
    We ourselves will understand each other!

    You need an arbiter, otherwise you’ll fight, yours, a good loving, just a native.
    And active politics.
    Then Brussels will give back the money and there will be quiet Washington.
    1. alatanas
      alatanas 30 August 2017 19: 15
      +1
      Just everyone in the Balkans has long "got it" from all sorts of "arbiters" since the Middle Ages. If there weren’t without them, there wouldn’t have been a "powder keg". Here England and Austria-Hungary, and the Russian Empire, and France, and Italy, and Germany had their hands. About Turks - separately
      1. Koshnitsa
        Koshnitsa 30 August 2017 20: 48
        0
        EU new arbiter, something returned to Bulgaria?
    2. pytar
      pytar 30 August 2017 22: 32
      +2
      Russia has been an arbiter more than once. Unfortunately, this role did not cope. I still think that how fewer referees will be, it’s so much easier to figure it out. All Balkan peoples have a frisky brandy / like moonshine /, 100 kinds of sharp grill and a rich collection of feast songs! drinks I suspect that the negotiation process in such a situation ... will stretch in time ... laughing Not fatal, since no one will ever rush to the Balkans.
  32. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 31 August 2017 00: 25
    0
    Stop swearing, the Slavic union is a myth, it never was and never will be, only an international union of working people is possible.
    "Since the position of the workers of all countries is the same, since their interests are the same, their enemies are the same, they must fight together and they must oppose the fraternal union of the bourgeoisie of all nations fraternal union of workers of all nations."(K.M. and F.E. SS, vol. 4, p. 373.
    1. Koshnitsa
      Koshnitsa 1 September 2017 10: 24
      0
      Want to rally with Negro workers in the United States? Seriously?
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 1 September 2017 18: 57
        0
        Quote: Koshnitsa
        wont to rally with black US workers? Seriously?

        In all seriousness. We have nothing to share with them. The enemy of the white, black and yellow workers is one - private property, capitalism.
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